Safe Sex and Sex Related Discussions in Thailand

[QUOTE=TConor;2942222]But no matter, I really don't care about YOUR safety, I just want my visits to be safe from those who might contaminate the working girls.[/QUOTE]What makes you think we are going to come into contact with the same girls as you? What I or other members do is not relevant to what you do. Secondly, how could you possibly control who else sees one of the girls you see? For example, other customers, other boyfriends, other Kiks, a Thai BF or husband. You just can't control what these girls do. Therefore, no amount of preaching from you on here will protect you or change that. Everything you say is not relevant here. The Thai girl that goes with you will be fucking someone bareback. We know it won't be you, but it will be someone. So please crack on. Just know this, you will never be protected under your twisted logic, as every Thai girl you go with, no matter where they work or how they work, is fucking someone bareback. Plus you always wear a condom right? So, what are you worried about?

[QUOTE=EverythingThai;2942320]What makes you think we are going to come into contact with the same girls as you?[/QUOTE]Good question!

[QUOTE=EverythingThai;2942320]What I or other members do is not relevant to what you do.[/QUOTE]Oh, shit. Everything comes out swinging. It's about to go down for real!

[QUOTE=EverythingThai;2942320]Secondly, how could you possibly control who else sees one of the girls you see? For example, other customers, other boyfriends, other Kiks, a Thai BF or husband. [/QUOTE]He has a good point!

[QUOTE=EverythingThai;2942320]You just can't control what these girls do.[/QUOTE]I man cannot know what your own fucking wife or girlfriend is doing. You know how many of those I fucked. And if you are a sponsor from a distance just ask [B]Explorer[/B] (who is currently in Japan) how that is going to work out for ya.

[QUOTE=EverythingThai;2942320]Therefore, no amount of preaching from you on here will protect you or change that.[/QUOTE]I hear you brother!

[QUOTE=EverythingThai;2942320]The Thai girl that goes with you will be fucking someone bareback. We know it won't be you, but it will be someone. [/QUOTE][B]Preach brother Preach![/B]

[QUOTE=EverythingThai;2942320] Just know this, you will never be protected under your twisted logic, as every Thai girl you go with, no matter where they work or how they work, is fucking someone bareback. [/QUOTE]Can I get a witness?

[QUOTE=EverythingThai;2942320]Plus you always wear a condom right? So, what are you worried about?[/QUOTE]Oh, you hurt them on that one. Probably goes down on these girls and is worried about lapping up the cum of other men. [B]Holla![/B].

All you left out was: [B]How you like me now?[/B].

For anyone interested in starting to take PrEP (I worry about HIV, so for me PrEP was a game changer), I recently saw a recommendation for this clinic in Bangkok:

[URL]https://pribta-tangerine.com/prep-new-999/[/URL]

The price of a the test, with a 30 day supply of PrEP, is only slightly higher than buying PrEP at a random pharmacy, so seems like an excellent choice. Caveat: I have not been to this clinic, but it was highly recommended, and I plan to go there next time, to get both the test and the PrEP medince.

[QUOTE=Edk750;2927358]I'm over the age limit for HPV vaccine. I tried Costco pharmacy, and they refused to do it. Checked with other pharmacies, who also refused. Nobody could tell me why. I even got an appointment with Planned Parenthood, and they cancelled the appt, once the Dr. Saw my age. Nobody will do it, even when paying fully out of pocket, and nobody will explain why.[/QUOTE]US pharmacies can't give you the vaccine because it is only approved by the US FDA up to age 45.

But they WILL do it if you get a doctor's prescription. Or your doctor can do it.

Or you can go to a new pharmacy and tell them you're 44 (if you pass on looks).

Cost is $220 per dose. You need 3 doses, spaced 6 months apart, so it's $660 total.

It's not approved for 45+ in the USA because no studies were done.

It is believed that over a certain age your body will not generate the necessary immune response, so vaccine would not be effective.

That said, you can get it at any age in either Hong Kong or Amsterdam (among others).

I have definitely put my dick in some suspect things over the years and knock on wood, to date I have never picked anything up. Now this is definitely not bulletproof, but it is worth consideration for a trip to Thailand. If you plan on going bareback a few times. Generally speaking, I will take my blowjobs bare and I cover up for actual fucking. But every once in a while if I get with a super hottie who is super into it, the heat of the moment takes over and I might take a dip in the pool without my raincoat on. It's kind of a case by case situation for me. If there's any odor or anything looks abnormal, I'm not going there for sure. Condom or not. That said, I have always done two things when engaging in this hobby. Before the deed, whether it be beer or water, I will make sure I have consumed enough that within about 30 to 45 minutes I will definitely be running to the toilet to urinate. I try to time this. And if I know I'm going to be partaking in a mongering adventure for several days, I will also take 100 MG of doxycycline every other day. This is basically assured to keep you from picking up any of the bacterial STDs. And urinating within a few minutes after the deed will also up the chances you walk away unscathed. Doxycycline is not practical to take for a one time encounter. But if you're going to somewhere like Patea and you're going to fuck 30 girls in two weeks, it's definitely something to consider. Especially if you might go bareback with a few of them. Now I know some doctors will say you should take 100 MG per day if on a mongering adventure, but this conflicts with drinking alcohol. It's not recommended to take that medication if you're going to consume large amounts of alcohol. But every other day seems to be still very effective and will allow you to drink alcohol.

[QUOTE=GettingTang;2944531]I have definitely put my dick in some suspect things over the years and knock on wood, to date I have never picked anything up. Now this is definitely not bulletproof, but it is worth consideration for a trip to Thailand. If you plan on going bareback a few times. Generally speaking, I will take my blowjobs bare and I cover up for actual fucking. But every once in a while if I get with a super hottie who is super into it, the heat of the moment takes over and I might take a dip in the pool without my raincoat on. It's kind of a case by case situation for me. If there's any odor or anything looks abnormal, I'm not going there for sure. Condom or not. That said, I have always done two things when engaging in this hobby. Before the deed, whether it be beer or water, I will make sure I have consumed enough that within about 30 to 45 minutes I will definitely be running to the toilet to urinate. I try to time this. And if I know I'm going to be partaking in a mongering adventure for several days, I will also take 100 MG of doxycycline every other day. This is basically assured to keep you from picking up any of the bacterial STDs. And urinating within a few minutes after the deed will also up the chances you walk away unscathed. Doxycycline is not practical to take for a one time encounter. But if you're going to somewhere like Patea and you're going to fuck 30 girls in two weeks, it's definitely something to consider. Especially if you might go bareback with a few of them. Now I know some doctors will say you should take 100 MG per day if on a mongering adventure, but this conflicts with drinking alcohol. It's not recommended to take that medication if you're going to consume large amounts of alcohol. But every other day seems to be still very effective and will allow you to drink alcohol.[/QUOTE]I do essentially the same thing. I don't drink much alcohol, but caffeine does the same thing. I drink a lot of Coke before and/or immediately after sex. For skin reasons, my dermatologist has me taking daily Doxycycline, so I'm covered there. Also, both of us wash before sex and I wash immediately after sex. Since I started this routine, I've stayed clear of all STDs. I only hope that good fortune continues. I get an extensive set of STD tests before and after visiting Thailand. I repeat my HIV tests a few weeks after returning home.

20-25 years ago I did many BBBJs with USA street hookers without cleaning, pissing, or antibiotics. Filthy habit. Once I got gonorrhea and was slow in seeking medical attention. A single does of oral antibiotics plus a single injection cleared the bacteria quickly, but there were unpleasant lingering effects for a few years.

[QUOTE=Noodle69;2944248]Ts 3 am I had just wrote a big post and then I was logged out. I have done it again as I want to inform fellow mongers as there is a lot of misinformation being posted on here.

I used to post here a few times way back but can't remeber my account.

I used to go to sw shop when it had a lot of hot performers like will momay and June who like a real anal probing.

I started of in tulips tho and there was some decent talent before like nadear and some very nice looking ones but I can't remeber the names maybe cee cee a few times was enough as I discovered sw shop and tulips seemed to go off. I dated a sw lady after that and so didn't go anymore. Last year I was in bkk and felt nostalgic as sukhunwit was not as good as before so I checked out tulip at 11.30 pm line up eas empty and nothing ID want even if drunk. Shortly after guitar closed up but even though ID gotten a large leo8 at 7-11 I didn't feel like taking her up on her offer as she was a bit bigger than my tastes but after reading about her huge pussy here I regret it.

Last after feeling bored with my GF and realisong how fast times slipping away I decided to visit tulips.

After reading all the bbcip post I thought I fancied some excitment.

I entered tulips after a big bottle of the leo8 nothing decent so I was disapointed then I saw a slimmish dark toned woman staring at me and I knew that was a good sign so took her.

In the room she suddenly seemed disinterested pulled her leggings off and told me shower. Quick wash of my balls and ass and that was it so I went out dried and got on the bed.

She took a condom oit her bag at the bottom. Of the bed and then started coming up and licking my man tits. That gets me very horney as I like the woman to make the moves. After that I got so horney I flipped her round and feasted on the pink hole it smelled clean so I inserted my tongue inside and she was moaning slightly and getting moist. It tasted clean so from. Past experience that's usually safe.

After 5 minutes of moaning and getring bored of her non deep sucking I turned her round she seemed to like some sloppy DFK and opened her legs nice and wide so I rubbed my throbbing 22 cm sicilian salami on it and then just slid it in causing more moaning. It was nice and wet and I was surpised how tight and I could feel kt squeezing so I just slid in and out for 10 minutes before turning her for doggy I could see her ass looked nice and wet and by this stage I thought what the hell I shouldn't but ill enjoy it so I touched the brown eye and rubbed it. She then quickly reached for the baby oil rubbed it on my throbbing glands and a quick rub on her backdoor.

She then went back to doggy position and said slowly. I like cock teasers but that dirty have your way attirude also excites me so I just started sliding in and she gasped a little and put her hand there to slow it up.

It slid in nice and easy but half way in it was jamming up and she was rounding and tesning a little so I just alid in and out slowly and it gradually loosened up until I was basically giving her an enema and some of the brown juices were releasing once it got a bit to much I went to rinse innthe shower and she came in and the bent over to get pentrated again. After 5 minutes I went back to the bed and did the front door which was tighter until I exploded really hard with the small pussy squeezing out every drop. She had a quick rinse innthe shower then sat on the bed looking at herself in the mirror. After this with 15 minutes left of the hour I disnt think ID have another shot but after 10 minutes I started fancying going inside the brown eye again but thought I might not enjoy it as much and stop where I was.

A few hours later the thrill must have boosted my t levels as for the next few days my salami was throbbing and I wanted to repeat the dirty thrill. After a week I went back I didn't tell her I was going I thought ID see who was there.

The last time I went I saw a tallish lady with dyed yellow hair I had really wanted her as she had nice looking tits bit a japanese guy had just taken her.

If anyone know who it was and if she is any good ID like to know.

I eemt about 8 pm earlier this week no nice ladys in the line up to old and overweight so stupidly I asked for the lady I had before and the reception called amd she appeared. This time I also stupodly said 2 hrs and gave her the change as ID not tipped 1st time.

She seemed a bit disinterested again and bit more tired this time. I thought she might of had a customer so I wdnt be licking the pinky hole incase I was tasting some mans juice.

After shower a little DFK then she putsome jell and I slid in for raw fun not as wet this time and not as squeezing. Turned around for the backdoor no brown water this time and it was still a little while to get the full length up there so I swapped holes a few times after about 30 minutes she seemed to be struggling to get pumped in the backdoor so I changed to the tighter pussy and finished there.

Altho she wasnt as into it she seemed to like having the yogurt inseminated amd didn't bother to wash it out. I hadn't enjoyed as much as was feeling a bit dirty and worried at risking it again. I asked if I could cancel the 2nd hour as it was just 55 minutes and she looked tired. Dhe asked the reception and came back saying I cld have have 200 be only so I said ok. At recption she got the 200 be and walked to the door with it and obvious that she wanted it. I felr the attitutde was becoming less good but since I hadn't tipped first time indidnt ask for it. But if it was a larger amount I would have as to many guys giving to much spoil it for everyone. Nowadays hookers here are becoming worse like in the west.

Well the reason I'm posting is because of all the total BS posts on here and the other forum saying they bb loads of p4 p ladys and catch nothing. A long time a go I used to bb bargirls and after cathing stds every few times I generally stopped doing it. The girls that don't bb are gerneally cleaner so these posts about the bb girls not giving them anything is pretty misleading to other mongers. Those are the type of guys who talk aboit thai women being uneducated when they mean the bargirls they talk to yet if they read any medical info they would know stds often don't have synptomns so if they test themselves they probably catch nothing as they already are infected.

This isn't a rant against bb or those guys as I also prefer it and occasional get tempted. Inlike knowing the providers do that as they are usually more hardcore but its wrong to mislead others about the risks.

2 days later I started getting burning urination and sticky discharge. I suspect its the clap as I don't think cm gives me symptomns. I'm testing this theory by treating clap only and if the discharge stops I’ll then see about doing a cm test. To do a full std test will cost more than the tulip session and now my GF will be infected also so I had to medicate her also by pretending the pills were vitamin see tablets I wanted her to eat.[/QUOTE]I want to correct your post. Nobody here that posts about BBFS with ladies has ever said they have never gotten an STD such as the big G or the big C. At least I have not read one such post recently. Including my own posts.

Secondly, I think your report is outdated as your visit to Tulip was from last year, unless you typed wrong. Therefore, it's not relevant IMHO.

Finally, everyone here who practices BBFS with the ladies knows what they are doing. Meaning they accept the risks. Therefore, we dont need you to post about this IMHO.

If any forum member practicing BBFS with the ladies is naive enough to believe they are 100% immune from STDs, they will find out soon enough thats not the case. There is always a chance you might catch something. The debate about female to male transmission of HIV is not what I am referring to. Just a general statement on this is what I am doing to hopefully educate others to never practice this hobby of BBFS thinking you are immune. In 15 years of being here practicing this hobby, I have caught something twice. Both times it was Chlamydia. I test for HIV every month and take medication to prevent it. No one is immune.

Taking an antibiotic unnecessarily therefore has a double negative effect on an individual by altering their microbiome and protective barrier and by selecting resistant bacteria. It can thus increase the risk of a subsequent infection that is difficult to treat.

Antibiotic resistance is now reaching dangerously high levels in all regions of the world. New resistance mechanisms are emerging and spreading worldwide, undermining our ability to treat common infectious diseases. For a growing number of infections, such as pneumonia, tuberculosis, sepsis, gonorrhoea, and foodborne illnesses, treatment is becoming more difficult or even impossible as antibiotics become less effective.

In countries where antibiotics are available over the counter for humans and animals, the problem of the emergence and spread of resistance is even worse. Similarly, in countries without standardized treatment guidelines, antibiotics are overprescribed by health workers and veterinarians and overused by the general public.

Unless we take urgent action, we will soon enter a post-antibiotic era in which common infections and minor injuries will once again be deadly.

Antibiotic resistance is the phenomenon whereby bacteria become resistant to antibiotics. Bacteria exposed to antibiotics evolve and develop defense mechanisms that allow them to escape their action. This phenomenon affects both bacteria that cause infections (pathogenic bacteria) and generally harmless bacteria that are naturally present in our bodies (so-called commensal bacteria), in animals (pets or food production) and in the environment. When resistance has developed in one or other of these bacterial species, it can be transmitted to other species, and thus contribute to the expansion and spread of the phenomenon. Antibiotics thus become ineffective and can no longer treat us against infections caused by resistant bacteria.

Antibiotics act not only on the bacteria responsible for the infection to be treated, but they also act on bacteria that are useful to our body. All bacteria are therefore at risk of developing new antibiotic resistance mechanisms. The more antibiotics are taken, the greater the risk of developing resistant bacteria that make subsequent antibiotic treatments less effective for the patient and for the community.

[QUOTE=Pimpampoumpipo;2944665]Taking an antibiotic unnecessarily therefore has a double negative effect on an individual by altering their microbiome and protective barrier and by selecting resistant bacteria. It can thus increase the risk of a subsequent infection that is difficult to treat.

Antibiotic resistance is now reaching dangerously high levels in all regions of the world. New resistance mechanisms are emerging and spreading worldwide, undermining our ability to treat common infectious diseases. For a growing number of infections, such as pneumonia, tuberculosis, sepsis, gonorrhoea, and foodborne illnesses, treatment is becoming more difficult or even impossible as antibiotics become less effective.

In countries where antibiotics are available over the counter for humans and animals, the problem of the emergence and spread of resistance is even worse. Similarly, in countries without standardized treatment guidelines, antibiotics are overprescribed by health workers and veterinarians and overused by the general public.

Unless we take urgent action, we will soon enter a post-antibiotic era in which common infections and minor injuries will once again be deadly.

Antibiotic resistance is the phenomenon whereby bacteria become resistant to antibiotics. Bacteria exposed to antibiotics evolve and develop defense mechanisms that allow them to escape their action. This phenomenon affects both bacteria that cause infections (pathogenic bacteria) and generally harmless bacteria that are naturally present in our bodies (so-called commensal bacteria), in animals (pets or food production) and in the environment. When resistance has developed in one or other of these bacterial species, it can be transmitted to other species, and thus contribute to the expansion and spread of the phenomenon. Antibiotics thus become ineffective and can no longer treat us against infections caused by resistant bacteria.

Antibiotics act not only on the bacteria responsible for the infection to be treated, but they also act on bacteria that are useful to our body. All bacteria are therefore at risk of developing new antibiotic resistance mechanisms. The more antibiotics are taken, the greater the risk of developing resistant bacteria that make subsequent antibiotic treatments less effective for the patient and for the community.[/QUOTE]This is true, but also not true. It really doesn't apply using as a prep. Resistant bacteria becomes resistant when you're taking antibiotics for an infection and it doesn't clear it and so therefore it comes back. Now it knows how to evade the antibiotics. And then it develops resistance. If the bacteria never gets seeded in the first place, It won't become resistant because it never took on an infection. That's the reason for prep. Now it is true that specifically gonorrhea is becoming quite resistant and is in many cases requiring a three therapy treatment now. Azithromycin, Suprax and doxycycline as many times when someone picks up one of these things they get both of them. They get both chlamydia and gonorrhea. You can substitute suprax with the shot. Any one of these three antibiotics should clear both gonorrhea and chlamydia but due to the resistance now more frequent, doctors are now treating all infections with at least two antibiotics. Eventually, most likely will become resistant to these and after that? The world might change at least the sex world. Because gonorrhea will begin running repent, and it won't be treatable. So preventing it in the first place is your best bet. Taking one, 100 MG dose of doxycycline every other day during a mongering trip probably yields you about a 98% chance of not catching any bacterial related infection assuming you came into contact with it. Doing this does not cause bacterial resistance because if you're exposed to a resistant form of it, it was already resistant.

[QUOTE=GettingTang;2944677]This is true, but also not true....[/QUOTE]Please cite your sources.

For my part, all the points in my post come from official sites including the WHO: [URL]https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/antimicrobial-resistance[/URL].

The answers to your post are already contained in mine.

A simple and quick search on the internet should be enough for your knowledge of the subject. There are a lot of sites that will enlighten you.

[QUOTE=Pimpampoumpipo;2944665]Taking an antibiotic unnecessarily therefore has a double negative effect on an individual by altering their microbiome and protective barrier and by selecting resistant bacteria. It can thus increase the risk of a subsequent infection that is difficult to treat.
[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=GettingTang;2944677]This is true, but also not true. It really doesn't apply using as a prep. [B]Resistant bacteria becomes resistant when you're taking antibiotics for an infection and it doesn't clear it and so therefore it comes back. Now it knows how to evade the antibiotics. And then it develops resistance.[/B] If the bacteria never gets seeded in the first place, It won't become resistant because it never took on an infection. That's the reason for prep.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Pimpampoumpipo;2944724]Please cite your sources.

For my part, all the points in my post come from official sites including the WHO: [URL]https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/antimicrobial-resistance[/URL].

The answers to your post are already contained in mine.

A simple and quick search on the internet should be enough for your knowledge of the subject. There are a lot of sites that will enlighten you.[/QUOTE]I discussed the topic of antibiotic resistance when my dermatologist put me on daily doxy, that talk gave me the same impression that GettingTang presents. Essentially, the doxy susceptible bacteria entering my body will get killed before causing problems, and hence they don't evolve into doxy-resistant strains. Of course, this does nothing in the event a doxy-resistant strain enters my body from whatever source. This information was based on only about 2 minutes discussion with my dermatologist.

[QUOTE=HorseTrader;2944737]I discussed the topic of antibiotic resistance when my dermatologist put me on daily doxy, that talk gave me the same impression that GettingTang presents. Essentially, the doxy susceptible bacteria entering my body will get killed before causing problems, and hence they don't evolve into doxy-resistant strains. Of course, this does nothing in the event a doxy-resistant strain enters my body from whatever source. This information was based on only about 2 minutes discussion with my dermatologist.[/QUOTE]Doxycycline has been used as a prophylactic for malaria for many years. The bigger issue is people getting infected, taking Doxy and then stopping before the infection is cleared fully. This is what causes resistant strains. But also if a disease gets widely spread, it can become resistant to certain antibiotics. Basically bacteria and virus mutate randomly. The more it spreads, the more it mutates. The more it mutates, more the probability of resistant strains. So actually prophylactic use should reduce spread and thereby reduce mutation and resistance. Of course antibiotics have effects on your gastric system and liver and so you don't want to take them all the time. But using doxy Prep for a few days or weeks is not harming anyone or anything.

[QUOTE=HorseTrader;2944737] Essentially, the doxy susceptible bacteria entering my body will get killed before causing problems, and hence they don't evolve into doxy-resistant strains.[/QUOTE]That is a complete misunderstanding of how resistant strains evolve or spread.

If the bacteria entering you are killed by the antibiotics, they would most likely never have "evolved" to a resistant strain, so your explanation misses the whole point: Resistant strains already exist, but typically in the wild they will not grow to become a problem because of competition from other strains. The problem with antibiotics is that it will kill all the other strains, eliminating the competition for the resistant strains, thus enabling them to grow and become a problem. During a normal infection you will be infected with different strains, and your immune system tries to kill them all. Antibiotics help your own system, by getting rid of most, and you get rid of the rest yourself. But if you keep ingesting antibiotics, your body will become a long term growth environment for resistant strains, if your own immune system misses an infection, it might be a problem. That could happen for several reasons, e. G. Another type of infection keeping it occupied or life style induced repression, e. G. Alcohol consumption.

This is the explanation that most outbreaks of resistant strains happen in hospitals, where patients' own system are typically not tops. It is also the explanation why e. G. Resistant STI's spread among sex workers and other people with many partners who already employ some sort of pep.

So the pep in effect raises your chances of catching a resistant strain, not the opposite, because it will not encounter competition in your body. Luckily the chance of that happening is still very low, so it will not matter significantly.

You should probably be more concerned about how it affects your microbiome.

[QUOTE=HorseTrader;2944737] Essentially, the doxy susceptible bacteria entering my body will get killed before causing problems, and hence they don't evolve into doxy-resistant strains. [/QUOTE]Antibiotic resistance in bacteria can result either from mutations or from the acquisition of resistance genes that confer resistance to one or more antibiotics.

This applies to ALL bacteria, good and bad, which are constantly exchanging genetic material. This material circulates in the form of plasmids, extra DNA molecules distinct from chromosomal DNA, which contain genes coding for "cooperation" proteins.

New resistances spread much faster through these so-called "horizontal transfer" mechanisms: resistance is transmitted between organisms of different lineages, and not from one bacterium to its descendants.

These resistance mechanisms appear in the case of taking antibiotics that are too short, too long or too frequent.

On the other hand, when taking antibiotics, the "good" bacteria sensitive to the drug are eliminated and alter the microbiota, leaving the field open to the pathogen, if it is more resistant. The latter then finds itself in favorable conditions to develop and then disperse, due to easier access to resources. It is therefore possible to contract other types of diseases.

Read more: [URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antimicrobial_resistance[/URL].

Sources :
- Institut Pasteur : https://www.pasteur.fr/fr/centre-medical/fiches-maladies/resistance-aux-antibiotiques
- Biocodex Microbiota Institute : https://www.biocodexmicrobiotainstitute.com/fr/pro/resistance-aux-antibiotiques-le-microbiote-au-premier-plan
- Sante Publique France
- Assurance Maladie : https://www.ameli.fr/paris/assure/sante/medicaments/comprendre-les-differents-medicaments/antibioresistance
- WHO : https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/antimicrobial-resistance

[QUOTE=TConor;2944763]Very poor line up, fat and / or ugly. One very MILF "Pat" quit they said. Bye Bye Tupil![/QUOTE]I thought it would be bye bye Tulip because the ladies consistently provide BBFS CIP to more than 80 % of customers.