Safe Sex and Sex Related Discussions in Thailand

[QUOTE=Lama Di Bali]You can have your humble opinion.

In the humble opinion of the foremost venereologist working in Berlin, it is commonplace for the gonorrhea bacteria to live in the throat if the girl has given a blow job to a man who has the disease.

He says he sees it all the time in gay men.

It does not live in the mouth, it colonises the throat, so all the listerine in the world is not going to make a rat's ass of a difference.

The blow job I got was the ONLY unprotected sex I had and I have long ago given up the notion that I can get it from toilet seats.[/QUOTE]



Instead of arguing with these guys.....call 0848690083 and tell the guy what happened. He will pass it on to Eden management and get the problem sorted out as best as it can be at this point.

[QUOTE=Dan7373]But according this site, a man doing oral on the lady is at risk of getting only Herpes and possibly HPV.[/QUOTE]Dan, I don't know the SF Clinic. But I can tell you the chart is wrong. Simply put, anything a man can transmit to a woman by oral sex, can go from woman to man, too. I've treated gonoccocal pharyngitis in heterosexual men.

We generally believe that most of these diseases are more difficult to transmit during oral (male or female) because the mouth is not really a very hospitable environment for the various bacteria/viruses. If I put a drop of gonorrhea exudate on your lips, it is attacked by the enzymes in saliva and probably is deactivated. If, however, you put that same drop in a soda straw and deposit it in the throat, it misses that attack by the saliva and has a much better chance of infecting the person.

Yes, it is hard to get chlamydia from oral sex. Why? If she has a nasty case of chlamydia, she'll find sex painful and you'll find it stinks to high heaven. If she has a sub-clinical case, then, once again, those yeast buds will be attacked by the saliva. On the other hand, if you've got it and manage to stick your dick in her throat, she's much more likely to contract it.

Syphillis? If you've got an open sore in your mouth (maybe you bit your cheek or got your teeth cleaned) and you DATY on an infected lady, you'll more likely get syph. Same for Hepatitis and HIV.

It's not a matter of what you will or won't get, it's just a matter of probabilities. Rinsing with Listerine is unlikely to help - unless you're rinsing her vagina with Listerine. That might stop the transmission of diseases - mostly because she'll be running away as fast as possible to the nearest douche!

When my oral health is good (i.e. no open sores) I don;t worry about it. My cock is always sheathed. Hell, I'm wearing a rubber right now!

What proportion of Thailand prostitutes are willing to go bareback? I'm wondering because no later than last night (I'm only in Thailand since 2 days) girl offered bareback for 500 bath extra.

Personnally I don't think people should should judge those who choose BB. It's the choice of two consenting adults, and those going covered shouldn't worry, because covers are indeed meant to protect them so they should be safe anyway. Of course there is always the. O1% factor that the condom breaks and the. 01 factor that you get infected, but that's as probable as you winning the lottery.

On my side I would only go BB if I choose to keep the girl for a long period like a few days, and I had a full STD HIV blood test done.

[QUOTE=Escort Fan]What proportion of Thailand prostitutes are willing to go bareback?[/QUOTE]

Probably well over half do it as a matter of cours, and nearly all sometimes. However, it will depend on a variety of factors - she may allow with one customer and refuse the next. Most of the time extra money is not even necessary, but basically girls who do bareback regularly anyway will sometimes try for extra money if they think the guy is very eager or naive.

I have not found a huge difference in barebacking between the different levels of the business - some do and some don't from the 300 baht street girls to the 2,000 baht ones in the gogo.

One difference you will normally find is that girls in the Thai side of the sex business are much more likely to insist on condoms than girls in the farang-oriented side of the business. I attribute this to the fact that most Thai men are quite willing to use condoms, while most farang are not.

Lastly girls in 'soapy massage' places are somewhat less likely to bareback than girls in bars, gogos, or freelance work.

[QUOTE=Animby]Dan, I don't know the SF Clinic. But I can tell you the chart is wrong. Simply put, anything a man can transmit to a woman by oral sex, can go from woman to man, too. I've treated gonoccocal pharyngitis in heterosexual men....[/QUOTE]I agree with you about the theoretical dangers of STD transmission. That's why I won't do unprotected oral on a massage lady, even when a medical clinic website says it's not that dangerous.

But to be fair to this clinic, perhaps their chart comes from their statistics that they keep about their patients. Or it may come from some nation-wide statistics.

Sometimes that which looks dangerous in theory may not be so dangerous in practice. And the only way to know for sure the STD danger of a man doing unprotected oral sex on a woman is to look at what actually happens in real life with many real people and over a reasonable period of time.

[QUOTE=Escort Fan]Personnally I don't think people should should judge those who choose BB. It's the choice of two consenting adults.[/QUOTE]You missed many things here.

1) This is not a choice of two *informed* consenting adults. If I consent to playing Russian roulette based on wishful thinking that chance of dying is negligible, that's not true consent. If a a busy girl goes bareback with many of her customers, she will get HIV in a year or three, simple as that.

2) It's an unequal bargain -- a punter on a 7 day holiday may well accept the risk of going bareback, but a busy girl should not accept the much larger risk. (going with 100x more people plus M->F HIV transmission being much higher than F->M).

3) Health is one of the things that should just not be for sale. Quite a few people may be willing to sell a kidney. That doesn't mean they should be casually allowed to do it, especially if they're woefully uninformed about the risks, or choose not to think about them.

[those going covered shouldn't worry, because covers are indeed meant to protect them so they should be safe anyway. Of course there is always the .01% factor that the condom breaks]

You're grossly underestimating the public health risks.

Condoms provide a degree of protection, but just reduce the risk. I'd just not punt if HIV prevalence was 30%+ condoms or not. It's not only condom breakage, fluids are exchanged in other ways (fingers etc.).

People who go bareback with prostitutes are analogous to selfish pricks who drive recklessly at 180 km/h on a public highway.

The risk on each occasion seems small, and it helps if all other drivers wear a seatbelt. Still, in the end, it adds up and kills a good number of people for someone's minor pleasure.

[QUOTE=Escort Fan]....On my side I would only go BB if I choose to keep the girl for a long period like a few days, and I had a full STD HIV blood test done.[/QUOTE]Perhaps STD is not the only danger of unprotected sex with the lady. Unwanted pregnancy is also something to worry about.

I've known one girl in Pattaya who used to work at a bar. She got fired from her job because she had unprotected sex with a customer and got pregnant.

She was a friend of my Thai lady whom I took from the same bar. And that's how I got to know her.

I've seen her daily walking and soliciting customers on the Walking Street in Pattaya, even while her stomach was getting bigger with her child.

Eventually she had to stop working. She went to her village in Isaan, gave birth to her child, left the child in her parent's care, and went back to work in Pattaya. And of course when she came back to Pattaya, she had to redouble her efforts to earn money. Because she had the added burden of supporting her child. She had no way of finding or contacting the father of the child.

And of course not all girls who get pregnant choose to keep their child. There is an orphanage in Pattaya. And probably a good portion of the kids there are from unwanted pregnancies with farang customers.

Perhaps there is not much chance someone would force you to support your child, if you have unprotected sex with a Thai girl and get her pregnant. But even knowing that you may have a child who lives in difficult circumstances and whom nobody loves can be a heavy burden on your conscience.

Interesting angle, well put.

[QUOTE=Crocodilexp]You missed many things here.

1) This is not a choice of two *informed* consenting adults. If I consent to playing Russian roulette based on wishful thinking that chance of dying is negligible, that's not true consent. If a a busy girl goes bareback with many of her customers, she will get HIV in a year or three, simple as that.

2) It's an unequal bargain -- a punter on a 7 day holiday may well accept the risk of going bareback, but a busy girl should not accept the much larger risk. (going with 100x more people plus M->F HIV transmission being much higher than F->M).

3) Health is one of the things that should just not be for sale. Quite a few people may be willing to sell a kidney. That doesn't mean they should be casually allowed to do it, especially if they're woefully uninformed about the risks, or choose not to think about them.

[those going covered shouldn't worry, because covers are indeed meant to protect them so they should be safe anyway. Of course there is always the .01% factor that the condom breaks]

You're grossly underestimating the public health risks.

Condoms provide a degree of protection, but just reduce the risk. I'd just not punt if HIV prevalence was 30%+ condoms or not. It's not only condom breakage, fluids are exchanged in other ways (fingers etc.).

People who go bareback with prostitutes are analogous to selfish pricks who drive recklessly at 180 km/h on a public highway.

The risk on each occasion seems small, and it helps if all other drivers wear a seatbelt. Still, in the end, it adds up and kills a good number of people for someone's minor pleasure.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Escort Fan]...that's as probable as you winning the lottery.
On my side I would only go BB if I choose to keep the girl for a long period like a few days, and I had a full STD HIV blood test done.[/QUOTE]

Mr Fan, if winning the lottery were as common as broken condoms, I'd be buying a lot more lottery tickets! As for having a complete STD/HIV test done - that's just silly. Gonorrhea, HIV, chlamydia and herpes won't show up in a blood test and all STDs can go through periods of no physical symptoms. A single negative HIV blood test does NOT mean the person is not infected and contagious, it only means their body has not yet started producing antibodies to the virus. We always suggest repeat testing after a period of months. If the second test is negative and the patient has remained celibate or faithful to an uninfected partner, THEN we say for sure they are not infected.

Dan 7373 - The SFClinic chart made it appear there was ZERO risk for F to M oral sex transmission. I'm sorry, but no matter what the statistics say, that is misinformation. As I said, a cock can push the infection further back in the throat and, without the enzymatic protection of saliva, this makes the chances of passing a disease highly more likely. I mentioned that even I have treated men with throat infections caused by gonorrhea. When you find this, you must suspect homosexual behavior as the cock gets further into the throat (I grow repetitious) but, in many cases, it is found to be transmitted by male on infected female oral sex. I do agree with most of what you've said. Personally, I don't worry much about oral sex because I know the statistics and I select my partners carefully. Most of the time...

[QUOTE=Mick Licker]IMHO your HO isn't worth much.
Clamydia is quite easy to catch. Research the Internet.
I have had Clamydia 2 times and no other STDs.
Both times condoms were worn for sex properly.
Once I got it from BBBJ with girl from the Grace Hotel Coffee shop.
2nd time got it in the left eye off my finger that had misbehaved with girls at J One MP most likely.[/QUOTE]

I don't mind what Internet says, I talk about personal and fellows monger experience (which is very,very long) and I still believe what I said : Not [b]easy [/b]to get clamidya with unprotected blow job and , unless you go with the lowest of the low , you got to be very unlucky to get it .Talking about statistic , how many people you know getting clamydia from BJ,seriously ?

[QUOTE=Animby]Mr Fan, if winning the lottery were as common as broken condoms, I'd be buying a lot more lottery tickets! As for having a complete STD/HIV test done - that's just silly. Gonorrhea, HIV, chlamydia and herpes won't show up in a blood test and all STDs can go through periods of no physical symptoms. A single negative HIV blood test does NOT mean the person is not infected and contagious, it only means their body has not yet started producing antibodies to the virus. We always suggest repeat testing after a period of months. If the second test is negative and the patient has remained celibate or faithful to an uninfected partner, THEN we say for sure they are not infected.
[/QUOTE]

Two points here -

1) There are different types of HIV tests. What you say is only true with the cheapest ELISA test that detect antibodies. These antibodies usually show up between four weeks and three months. There is another test called the PCR-DNA test that tests for the actual virus and detects it within a few days to two weeks after an infection. Your clinic probably doesn't do this test. It is done by AIM which has affiliate clinics in most major cities in the US. Blood is taken and fed-exed to California and tested there. This test is commonly used in the porn industry and to test newborns of infected mothers who don't produce antibodies to HIV yet. It is expensive to have this test done.

2) The ELISA test is a nonspecific test and has a high percentage of false positives. This is why the FDA states that "a positive ELISA test is not a diagnosis of HIV infection." It tests for protiens that are not specific to HIV and cross-react with a number of other diseases. In places like Africa that are rife with disease the false positive rate can be as high as 90%. So it's true that a negative test doesn't always mean a person doesn't have the virus but a positive test doesn't always mean a person has it either.

[QUOTE=Marcostraight]I don't mind what Internet says, I talk about personal and fellows monger experience (which is very,very long) and I still believe what I said : Not easy to get clamidya with unprotected blow job and , unless you go with the lowest of the low , you got to be very unlucky to get it .Talking about statistic , how many people you know getting clamydia from BJ,seriously ? [/QUOTE]

I totally agree. I've had countless BBBJs in my time and never caught anything. I don't know anyone who said they have either. The only place where I've witnessed guys stating they were infected with clamydia or gono via BJ is on ISG. It's kinda strange.

[QUOTE=Dan7373]If you are going to do unportected oral sex on Thai women despite the dangers. Then I suggest that you rinse your mouth with mouthwash immediately afterwards. Mouthwash is designed to kill bacteria. And it may kill some viruses too. It won't give you 100% safety. But it will probably decrease your chances of getting an infection.[/QUOTE]
If you want to have an extra measure of protection, try Chlorhexidine Gluconate. Dentists perscribe it for many things including periodontal disease. It will kill any germs in the mouth, I guarantee!

[QUOTE=Dan7373]Perhaps STD is not the only danger of unprotected sex with the lady. Unwanted pregnancy is also something to worry about.

I've known one girl in Pattaya who used to work at a bar. She got fired from her job because she had unprotected sex with a customer and got pregnant.

She was a friend of my Thai lady whom I took from the same bar. And that's how I got to know her.

I've seen her daily walking and soliciting customers on the Walking Street in Pattaya, even while her stomach was getting bigger with her child.

Eventually she had to stop working. She went to her village in Isaan, gave birth to her child, left the child in her parent's care, and went back to work in Pattaya. And of course when she came back to Pattaya, she had to redouble her efforts to earn money. Because she had the added burden of supporting her child. She had no way of finding or contacting the father of the child.

And of course not all girls who get pregnant choose to keep their child. There is an orphanage in Pattaya. And probably a good portion of the kids there are from unwanted pregnancies with farang customers.

Perhaps there is not much chance someone would force you to support your child, if you have unprotected sex with a Thai girl and get her pregnant. But even knowing that you may have a child who lives in difficult circumstances and whom nobody loves can be a heavy burden on your conscience.[/QUOTE] If a girl is in this line work she should have the tools of the trade like birthcontrol. It is like a carpenter without a hammer and a plumber without a pipe wrench. When going bareback you would think they are on birthcontrol. I wonder how many freelancers and bargirls are not on birthcontrol.

[QUOTE=The Corn Hole]1) There are different types of HIV tests.[/QUOTE]

Yes. You're right. There's also the Western Blot procedure and an exam using electronmicroscopy to directly identify the presence of the virus. I started to mention these in my post but decided not to muddy the waters since the average punter is unlikely to have access to these advanced and VERY expensive tests or to use them on a Thai bar girl he wants to screw for a month or two.

I haven't priced these tests for a long time but I imagine they haven't gotten any cheaper: PCR-DNA probably costs somewhere around US$1500, WBlot around $400 and direct visualization generally isn't even available except as part of a research protocol. More, there are only a handful of labs in the WORLD that will do an HIV PCR screening and a handful of advanced research institutes that do direct visualization.

The ELISA and latex agglutination procedures are not proof positive of infection and, you're right, only test for certain proteins produced by the body's immune response. I don't believe you're right in saying there is a high incidence of false positive tests (saying the virus is present when it is not). With modern methods I believe the confidence is well above 98%. And, no diagnosis of HIV would be made then, anyway. The ELISA results would be confirmed with a subsequent Western Blot test. Then the reliability approaches 100%.

BY the way, there are even other DNA and nucleic acid tests being used to identify the presence of the HIV virus but, again, they are not commonly available. Also, in an earlier post I stated there were no FDA approved home test kits for HIV. I have it on reliable information that I am wrong. A test is available but it requires sending a drop of blood to a lab and waiting for results. To My thinking, this does not qualify as a home test. Just home specimen collection.

I have slept with about 12 Thai girls in the last year and half I know thats small number compared to some of you hounds but I have never been offered bareback. I never asked for it either. One school girl I was with on my last vacation I joking offered to give her another baby in which she declined haha. I made it clear to her though I was playing around. I even had some outright ask for a condom from me, I think its good if they do. I would be turned off if a girl offered me bareback right away no matter what country working girl or square.

"I would be turned off if a girl offered me bareback right away no matter what country working girl or square." I wouldn't.

[quote=animby]i haven't priced these tests for a long time but i imagine they haven't gotten any cheaper: pcr-dna probably costs somewhere around us$1500, wblot around $400 and direct visualization generally isn't even available except as part of a research protocol. more, there are only a handful of labs in the world that will do an hiv pcr screening and a handful of advanced research institutes that do direct visualization.[/quote]
if you are in los angeles, california, you can get the pcr-dna test at the same clinics where the local adult industry talent gets tested. it is just us$100 for this test only. if you are mister cheap bastard, you can get the elisa test there for $35. when i was in the area last fall, i went for the "everything panel", that was $300 which included the pcr-dna aids test. i thought that was a good deal for all the tests you get. i know that they send your [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord109][CodeWord109][/url] and blood samples to a lab somewhere so maybe it's a matter of finding out what other clinics this lab does business with.

if you find yourself in the los angeles area anytime soon, you might want to check it out. [url]http://www.aim-med.org/[/url] i suppose i should crosspost this somewhere useful...

[QUOTE=Animby]
The ELISA and latex agglutination procedures are not proof positive of infection and, you're right, only test for certain proteins produced by the body's immune response. I don't believe you're right in saying there is a high incidence of false positive tests (saying the virus is present when it is not). With modern methods I believe the confidence is well above 98%. And, no diagnosis of HIV would be made then, anyway. The ELISA results would be confirmed with a subsequent Western Blot test. Then the reliability approaches 100%.
[/QUOTE]

No, actually the accuracy of the ELISA test alone is nowhere near 98% if that is what you're inferring. It's not even 50% and with more and more people in the "low risk" catagory getting tested an accurate positive result is probably even lower than that! Even with a confirmed positive WB test I don't think it's 98% like you said. If the ELISA test had a very low false positive rate I don't really see a need to confirm it with WB. In any case only 25 -30% of positive ELISA patients that test again with PCR test positive for the actual virus itself. This is why I don't have this test done because of it's extreme inaccuracy.

I got the PCR test done for $200 including doctor's visit. Chances are there is a clinic or two that will do it in every major city. I don't know which clinics perform this test in Thailand. To use this test on a Thai bargirl is kind of silly I agree. A standard ELISA would be good enough in my view. But still, it could take 3 months for the antibodies to show up in the blood. Yet another reason this test is flawed.

[QUOTE=The Corn Hole]No, actually the accuracy of the ELISA test alone is nowhere near 98% [/QUOTE]

I stand corrected re pricing of the tests. A little research has shown they have indeed declined dramatically. I suppose, like most tech, as it becomes more common, prices go down.

As for the rest of my post, I stand by my stats but won't argue them. The main point is - this is the common test that is done and it does NOT demonstrate early infections. It requires time for the antibodies to present in the blood which means you cannot use it less than several weeks after inoculation. Further, as the antibody proteins are variable in their presentation, the test might not be positive for several months after inoculation.

Therefore, screening your bargirls with the most common test is not adequate. And any documentation they might present you is likely inadequate.

True story: I was recently working in an Arabic nation that required an HIV exam prior to issuing my work visa. I passed with flying colors. Although I noticed the blood type listed on the test was not mine...

Beware of developing nation medical laboratories.

I would.. because then it would mean she had barebacked every piece of gutter filth from here to there.. and was past caring.

[QUOTE=Johnson994]"I would be turned off if a girl offered me bareback right away no matter what country working girl or square." I wouldn't.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Freeman 418]I would.. because then it would mean she had barebacked every piece of gutter filth from here to there.. and was past caring.[/QUOTE]

Damn its good to see someone has common sense on this board.

I have not been posting for a long time as I got a bit concerned about some members bare backing exploits in isaan and their general attitudes

But anyhow.

I m just back from BKK and visited a friend there. He had been chatting with some chick from Korat on a website. The woman wanted to visit him in BKK and wanted to talk. He thought it better to visit the woman in Korat so off he took. In Korat the gal was rather friendly and suggested to stay overnight in a local hotel. After checking in, she became very nice and some sex took place. My buddy is not an idiot and used condoms and did not engage in oral sex or let her do it.

Being a bit worn out from the trip he was relaxing and let her play with his cock. At one point he saw how her hand went between her legs and back to his dick rubbing the top of it. He could not believe it but went to the bathroom and cleaned himself. Still confused he did not kick her out but simply left the next morning.

The result was an STD infection and he got shots and pills for any kind bacteria. The doctors told him that the risk for HIV, Hep or Syphilis is rather limited.

The person goes by Wannisa (also her hotmail account) is 21 yrs old, from Korat, more precisely Nonsung, 160 cm.

She specialized in hitting up foreigners on the web for joined holidays in Phuket and Samui. Pattaya she does not like as a farang kicked her out after 2 days (I wonder why.). Before she had worked in a bar on Ko Samui (last winter season).

I think it is important to warn anyone about this person as she is a health risk and engages in a kind of physical attack that could be lethal.

Below you find the pic. I do not add her hotmail id as those are forbidden to post. I know it is unusual to out a person like that but he might not be her only victim.

Merck's experimental AIDS vaccine fails By LINDA A. JOHNSON, AP Business Writer
10 minutes ago



TRENTON, N.J. - In a disappointing setback, a promising experimental AIDS vaccine failed to work in a large international test, leading the developer to halt the study. Merck & Co. said Friday that it is ending enrollment and vaccination of volunteers in the study, which was partly funded by the National Institutes of Health.

It was a high-profile failure in the daunting quest to develop a vaccine to prevent AIDS. Merck's vaccine was the farthest along and was closely watched by experts in the field.

Officials at the company, based in Whitehouse Station, N.J., said 24 of 741 volunteers who got the vaccine in one segment of the experiment later became infected with HIV, the virus that causes AIDS. In a comparison group of volunteers who got dummy shots, 21 of 762 participants also became infected.

"It's very disappointing news," said Keith Gottesdiener, head of Merck's clinical infectious disease and vaccine research group. "A major effort to develop a vaccine for HIV really did not deliver on the promise."

Michael Zwick, an HIV researcher at Scripps Research Institute, said the vaccine's failure is unfortunate. But he said it's too soon to know if other vaccines using the same strategy would also fail.

"It's par for the course in the HIV field," he said of the Merck result.

The volunteers in the experiment were all free of HIV at the start. But they were at high risk for getting the virus: Most were homosexual men or female sex workers. They were all repeatedly counseled about how to reduce their risk of HIV infections, including use of condoms, according to Merck.

In a statement, the NIH said a data safety monitoring board, reviewing interim results, found the vaccine did not prevent HIV infection. Nor did it limit severity of the disease "in those who become infected with HIV as a result of their own behaviors that exposed them to the virus" — another goal of the study.

Merck's was the first major test of a new strategy to prevent HIV infection. The first wave of attempts to develop a vaccine tried to stimulate antibodies against the virus, but that hasn't worked so far.

The new effort — an approach that Gottesdiener said is being tried in most other current research — is aimed at making the body produce more of a crucial immune cell called killer T cells. The goal is to simultaneously "train" those cells, like an army, to quickly recognize and destroy the AIDS virus when it enters cells in the bloodstream.

Zwick said some researchers still are working on vaccines to neutralize the AIDS virus. He thinks ultimately what's needed is one that combines that approach with a way to stimulate and train killer T cells.

Merck and the HIV Vaccine Trials Network, an international collaboration of researchers and institutions funded by the NIH, co-sponsored the study. The experiment, called STEP, began in December 2004 and had enrolled 3,000 volunteers in Australia, Brazil, Canada, the Dominican Republic, Haiti, Jamaica, Peru, Puerto Rico and the United States.

The results announced Friday involved volunteers who researchers thought would benefit most because they had never been exposed to the particular cold virus used in the vaccine.

Wall Street, on a generally upbeat day, showed little reaction to the news, with Merck shares rising 44 cents to $51.82.

Analyst Steve Brozak of WBB Securities said the vaccine was considered the most promising candidate both by Wall Street and the science community. He said a vaccine is the only financially feasible way to fight the AIDS epidemic in poor countries and that the company that comes up with the first successful shot would have "a license to print money."

"You're talking about a Carl Sagan kind of number — billions and billions" of dollars, he said.

The Merck vaccine, known only as V520, also was being tested in a similar study in South Africa and in two smaller studies, which also were halted.

The Merck vaccine failure is a "deep disappointment and a scientific setback for the AIDS vaccine field," the AIDS Vaccine Advocacy Coalition said in a statement. However, the nonprofit group added that "while this is a disappointment, it is in no way the end of the search for an AIDS vaccine."

[QUOTE=The Corn Hole]No, actually the accuracy of the ELISA test alone is nowhere near 98% if that is what you're inferring. It's not even 50% and with more and more people in the "low risk" catagory getting tested an accurate positive result is probably even lower than that! Even with a confirmed positive WB test I don't think it's 98% like you said. If the ELISA test had a very low false positive rate I don't really see a need to confirm it with WB. In any case only 25 -30% of positive ELISA patients that test again with PCR test positive for the actual virus itself. This is why I don't have this test done because of it's extreme inaccuracy.

I got the PCR test done for $200 including doctor's visit. Chances are there is a clinic or two that will do it in every major city. I don't know which clinics perform this test in Thailand. To use this test on a Thai bargirl is kind of silly I agree. A standard ELISA would be good enough in my view. But still, it could take 3 months for the antibodies to show up in the blood. Yet another reason this test is flawed.[/QUOTE]
The Corn Hole,

ELISA isn't very specific but very sensitive. Due to this it may produce wrong positive results which must then be confirmed/checked by a more specific (but less sensitive) test. But if it comes back with a negative it's a definitive negative. No need to worry anymore - of course only after the mentioned 3 months period after the incident / possible infection.

Just to remind you guys that there are other nasty things out there.

Went to Cambodia for about a week and brought back a nasty souvenir - Dengue or breakbone fever. It got that name for a reason. Wasn't a nice experience, it's quite dangerous if you aren't blessed with a strong health. I didn't even recognized it in the beginning and the symptoms - fever, ague, muscle pain, general fatigue - mislead me thinking of malaria.

Went to a hospital on my return and the doctor diagnosed that little damn thing which can cause internal bleedings, bleedings of the brain, shock and unconsciousness. In the end I also got a nasty rash that itched like hell. He told me you can get it everywhere, even in Bangkok. It's high season for Dengue right now anyway.

Luckily my immune system got rid of this little guest as he misbehaved beyond any level that could be tolerated. So try to stay save and away from mosquitos if possible.

[QUOTE=The Traveler]Just to remind you guys that there are other nasty things out there.[/QUOTE]

Deepest sympathy. I had dengue (was working in the Mexican jungles) 20 years or so ago. Surely makes you wish for death to come quickly. Fortunately, only lasts about a week or so. It's caused by a virus and transmitted by mosquitoes. No vaccine, no cure except time.

Misery.
Hope you're feeling much better.

Greetings all,

I will most likely be visiting Bangkok for the first time in a few months. I'm somewhat new to all this and wondering the risks of contracting something strictly via BBBJ or going down on the girl (I'll be using a condom for everything else). Anyhow, how bad or prevalent is it in Bangkok? While I'm there, because of my schedule (amongst other reasons) I won't be able to do too much of the bar/MP scene. Which means ultimately I'll be hitting up the escort agencies and I'm wondering if it is somewhat fair to say that the pricier agencies and girls might mean safer, and more freedom in those departments?

Again, I apologize for my ignorance, like I said this is all new to me. Thank you all for your advice and insight, much appreciated.

Cheers, J

[QUOTE=Jsurf]Greetings all,

I will most likely be visiting Bangkok for the first time in a few months. I'm somewhat new to all this and wondering the risks of contracting something strictly via BBBJ or going down on the girl (I'll be using a condom for everything else). Anyhow, how bad or prevalent is it in Bangkok? While I'm there, because of my schedule (amongst other reasons) I won't be able to do too much of the bar/MP scene. Which means ultimately I'll be hitting up the escort agencies and I'm wondering if it is somewhat fair to say that the pricier agencies and girls might mean safer, and more freedom in those departments?

Again, I apologize for my ignorance, like I said this is all new to me. Thank you all for your advice and insight, much appreciated.

Cheers, J[/QUOTE]

You won't get a straight answer because there isn't one about BBBJ and going down. It is up to you to decide if the risk is acceptable. Don't be fooled into think a more expensive girl will be any less of a risk or more for that matter. The only ones I would personaly stay away from are those on the streets who couldn't get a job in a bar or brothel.

[QUOTE=Jsurf]
the risks of contracting something strictly via BBBJ or going down on the girl (I'll be using a condom for everything else).

Cheers, J[/QUOTE]I got the most virulent strain of gonorrhea from BBBJ at the Eden Club in Bangkok the year before last. The girls were scrupulous about using condoms for everything else.

I ended up giving the clap to my German girlfriend who was not best pleased.

The strain of gonorrhea was highly antibiotic resistant and I ended up having to have a series of injections in the ass.

The venerologist explained the following:

As far as gonorrhea is concerned, it can live in the mucous membranes of the throat as well as in the vagina. If the infected girl deep throats her customer, then it is relatively easy for him to get infected. It is common among gay men. It does not live in the mouth, so the risk of getting it from a bit of sucking and licking is not that great.

As for DATY it is unlikely a man will get gonorrhea from this, though not impossible. In which case it will colonise his throat and he'll give it to anyone he deep throats. Those of you that swing both ways be warned.

Syphilis is another story entirely, and I'm not entirely sure if it transmits orally. Do you own research.

You can certainly get HIV from any kind of sexual activities where the infected person's body fluids enter the blood stream of the other person. A nick on your dick, or bleeding gums will do the job.

As to all the other wonderful bugs that women seem to get, such as chlamidia, tricho, yeast infections etc etc, yeah, you can get non specific infections from them. But they are no big deal, or at least not in the same league as syphilis, gonorrhea or HIV.

This is a repeat post......did you ever contact the management and inform them that the girl needed medical attention so she doesn't pass this on to others? I am not a customer of Eden, and could care less about their business....but you have now mentioned the place twice in reference to an incident of STD. Do you have some other agenda?




[QUOTE=Lama Di Bali]I got the most virulent strain of gonorrhea from BBBJ at the Eden Club in Bangkok the year before last. The girls were scrupulous about using condoms for everything else.

I ended up giving the clap to my German girlfriend who was not best pleased.

The strain of gonorrhea was highly antibiotic resistant and I ended up having to have a series of injections in the ass.

The venerologist explained the following:

As far as gonorrhea is concerned, it can live in the mucous membranes of the throat as well as in the vagina. If the infected girl deep throats her customer, then it is relatively easy for him to get infected. It is common among gay men. It does not live in the mouth, so the risk of getting it from a bit of sucking and licking is not that great.

As for DATY it is unlikely a man will get gonorrhea from this, though not impossible. In which case it will colonise his throat and he'll give it to anyone he deep throats. Those of you that swing both ways be warned.

Syphilis is another story entirely, and I'm not entirely sure if it transmits orally. Do you own research.

You can certainly get HIV from any kind of sexual activities where the infected person's body fluids enter the blood stream of the other person. A nick on your dick, or bleeding gums will do the job.

As to all the other wonderful bugs that women seem to get, such as chlamidia, tricho, yeast infections etc etc, yeah, you can get non specific infections from them. But they are no big deal, or at least not in the same league as syphilis, gonorrhea or HIV.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Jsurf]...wondering the risks of contracting something strictly via BBBJ or going down on the girl (I'll be using a condom for everything else). ...wondering if it is somewhat fair to say that the pricier agencies and girls might mean safer, and more freedom in those departments?[/QUOTE]

If you back up about a month in this forum, you'll see a fairly lively discussion about this subject. Lots of truth and lots of not truths. But this is a subject you'll have to do your own research on as the members all seem to have their own "verifiable" opinions and horror stories. There is a lot of good information in that discussion, though.

J, spending more money on an expensive girl will not protect you from STDs unless you use the empty space in your wallet for more condoms which you use. I've never used an escort agency but seem to think they cost a lot more than I like to pay. And I've heard the quality can be very good or very bad. Same as every where else!

Have fun. The LOS is an amazing place, the women are amazing and you're gonna have a good time. Hope you'll have the time to see places other than Bangkok.

[QUOTE=Lover Boy #2]This is a repeat post......did you ever contact the management and inform them that the girl needed medical attention so she doesn't pass this on to others? I am not a customer of Eden, and could care less about their business....but you have now mentioned the place twice in reference to an incident of STD. Do you have some other agenda?[/QUOTE]After my session at Eden I flew on to Germany where the symptoms presented themselves. I did not visit Bangkok again until a year later. It hardly seemed reasonable to make a fuss after such a length of time.

So no, I did not report it to management. I have no axe to grind with them at all. Nor with the girl herself. I'm sure it was not deliberate. Shit happens.

My sole purpose is to disabuse anybody of the belief that getting an STD from a blow job is rare.

Calls from Germany to Thailand can be had for very cheap.....either by calling card or the local Pakistani with a phone store. I certainly believe that you can in fact get an STD from a blow job......so I certainly am not one who is disagreeing with you.

My posts about contacting the management were so that the girl could get some medical attention so that this very virulent strain would not be passed on to many more customers by bj and kissing. Do you realize that based on your own comments, a mini epidemic could get started by her and all the blow jobs she provides at Eden? All I was saying that once you went as far as to identify where this came from, that notification to the manager would have yielded some possible protection to your brother mongers.




[QUOTE=Lama Di Bali]After my session at Eden I flew on to Germany where the symptoms presented themselves. I did not visit Bangkok again until a year later. It hardly seemed reasonable to make a fuss after such a length of time.

So no, I did not report it to management. I have no axe to grind with them at all. Nor with the girl herself. I'm sure it was not deliberate. Shit happens.

My sole purpose is to disabuse anybody of the belief that getting an STD from a blow job is rare.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Lover Boy #2]Calls from Germany to Thailand can be had for very cheap.....either by calling card or the local Pakistani with a phone store. I certainly believe that you can in fact get an STD from a blow job......so I certainly am not one who is disagreeing with you.

My posts about contacting the management were so that the girl could get some medical attention so that this very virulent strain would not be passed on to many more customers by bj and kissing. Do you realize that based on your own comments, a mini epidemic could get started by her and all the blow jobs she provides at Eden? All I was saying that once you went as far as to identify where this came from, that notification to the manager would have yielded some possible protection to your brother mongers.[/QUOTE]OK, alright already, next time I get the clap, no matter where in the world I got it and no matter where in the world I happen to be, I will do my best to contact the establishment concerned.

I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

[QUOTE=Lama Di Bali]OK, alright already, next time I get the clap, no matter where in the world I got it and no matter where in the world I happen to be, I will do my best to contact the establishment concerned.

I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.[/QUOTE]

OK...so let's just move on now.

Had dental cleaning stain removal recently done in BKK. Have never had this procedure done before. They put an apron over my head with a hole in it for my mouth. Only 800 baht for half an hours work, but I've never had so much bleeding in my life, both immediately after and during the next 24 hours. No way was I going to risk kissing any TGs till that dried up.

[QUOTE=PinkPearl]Had dental cleaning stain removal recently done in BKK. Have never had this procedure done before. They put an apron over my head with a hole in it for my mouth. Only 800 baht for half an hours work, but I've never had so much bleeding in my life, both immediately after and during the next 24 hours. No way was I going to risk kissing any TGs till that dried up.[/QUOTE]

Good move man....that oral bleeding is a direct conduit into your bloodstream...hence the reason people with heart valve problems take anti-biotics after dental work. Before I go into battle, I make sure my gums are intact.

[QUOTE=PinkPearl]Had dental cleaning stain removal recently done in BKK. Have never had this procedure done before. They put an apron over my head with a hole in it for my mouth. Only 800 baht for half an hours work, but I've never had so much bleeding in my life, both immediately after and during the next 24 hours. No way was I going to risk kissing any TGs till that dried up.[/QUOTE]

Bit OT I know but did the cleaning work? How much was it if I may ask?

[quote=jc373]bit ot i know but did the cleaning work? how much was it if i may ask?[/quote]yes, i've gone from being a poopy colour to pearly white. something that thais will especially adore. damage $25 cdn. i'll be sure to get lots of
smooching in before the next session.

Well, I'm a paranoid person, did DATY on a girl.

Should I be worried about HIV?

[quote=pinkpearl]yes, i've gone from being a poopy colour to pearly white. something that thais will especially adore. damage $25 cdn. i'll be sure to get lots of
smooching in before the next session.[/quote]

good to hear. wonder if my yellowish teeth could be helped. will say my teeth are stained by antibitotics when i was a baby, so have been off white all my life.

[QUOTE=Jc373]Good to hear. Wonder if my yellowish teeth could be helped. Will say my teeth are stained by antibitotics when I was a baby, so have been off white all my life.[/QUOTE]You could ask the dentist at Nana Square, but don't blame me if they fuck you up. Other than that I can only offer that once upon a time I saw a guy use Ajax to transform his teeth from a pissy colour to pearl. That would be the way to go for the Cheap Charlies and inmates who post here.

[QUOTE=Jc373]...my teeth are stained by antibitotics when I was a baby, so have been off white all my life.[/QUOTE]

Sorry to tell you that the types of stains caused by antibiotics (usually tetracycline) cannot be bleached out. You should still see a dentist, though. There are other (more expensive, of course) options.

[QUOTE=Bal541]Well, I'm a paranoid person, did DATY on a girl.

Should I be worried about HIV?[/QUOTE]


Did you stick your tongue deep inside her and drink her juice...or did you just briefly tickle her clit with your tongue? Did you notice if she was shooting her fluid (squirt) into your mouth....or did you just lick her lips briefly and avoid entry of body fluids? I have more questions after you answer these.

I'm pretty scared about what's happened since I went to geylang a few weeks ago, I went to lorong 16 and had a thai female there. She put some ointment sort of a thing on her vagina and gave me a hand job. I left but later there was a greyish thing, sort of what happens on your skin after you get a slight iinjury and before new skin starts to grow back. Its itching like hell every day and is around my member on both thighs. I would really appreciate some advice on what to do about this, I didn't think much of it, till I read the posts in this forum recently, I haven't gone to any doctor because I live in a really small town in india and word would spread. I will have to travel to bombay or one of the big cities to get the problem checked if its something serious. Please help.

[QUOTE=AboveTheRim]I'm pretty scared about what's happened since I went to geylang a few weeks ago, I went to lorong 16 and had a thai female there. She put some ointment sort of a thing on her vagina and gave me a hand job. I left but later there was a greyish thing, sort of what happens on your skin after you get a slight iinjury and before new skin starts to grow back. Its itching like hell every day and is around my member on both thighs. I would really appreciate some advice on what to do about this, I didn't think much of it, till I read the posts in this forum recently, I haven't gone to any doctor because I live in a really small town in india and word would spread. I will have to travel to bombay or one of the big cities to get the problem checked if its something serious. Please help.[/QUOTE]

Calm down I am not an expert but I doubt serious you can catch something from a hand job. Look if you are truly worried go to the Dr. Don't ask for medical advice from a forum filled with sex addicts. Another thing I take it you are new at this buying sex thing. If you are going to be worried to death after every encounter why bother. The genitals are subject to non sex disease blemishes as the rest of the body, pimples, dry skin you name it.

[QUOTE=AboveTheRim]I'm pretty scared about what's happened since I went to geylang a few weeks ago, I went to lorong 16 and had a thai female there. She put some ointment sort of a thing on her vagina and gave me a hand job. I left but later there was a greyish thing, sort of what happens on your skin after you get a slight iinjury and before new skin starts to grow back. Its itching like hell every day and is around my member on both thighs. I would really appreciate some advice on what to do about this, I didn't think much of it, till I read the posts in this forum recently, I haven't gone to any doctor because I live in a really small town in india and word would spread. I will have to travel to bombay or one of the big cities to get the problem checked if its something serious. Please help.[/QUOTE]

I don't understand this at all. You say she put some sort of ointment on her vagina...but only gave you a hand job? Why did she put the ointment on her vagina if you were paying for a hand job. Was it her scheduled time for application of medicaments? Personally, if this were the scenario, I would have taken a look at the tube/application device and made a decision as to whether or not to continue. A few years back, some Euro ***** had some cream on her dresser..... as she was in the bathroom preparing for Loverboy's dressing plan, it was noticed that the cream was a cure for yeast infections. I don't know if it was over reacting, but I took a walk out of there...after some polite and well meaning excuses.

Those places in Geylang look very sleazy to me...just the kind of place to avoid. If you feel this situation you have is a direct result of your contact with her, I would consider making the trip to the big city. I disagree with the other poster in that body fluids can be transferred by hand and then rubbing into the skin. Guys have reported even getting Chlamydia from hand contact. We are not doctore (at least I am not)....so for the most part we are the wrong guys to ask. I am not sure that we are all "sex addicts"....but we probably are not the best consultants. If your condition does not improve within a few days, I would consider proper medical care.

[QUOTE=Bpd81]Calm down I am not an expert but I doubt serious you can catch something from a hand job. Look if you are truly worried go to the Dr. Don't ask for medical advice from a forum filled with sex addicts. Another thing I take it you are new at this buying sex thing. If you are going to be worried to death after every encounter why bother. The genitals are subject to non sex disease blemishes as the rest of the body, pimples, dry skin you name it.[/QUOTE]
Of course you can get an STD from a hand job!
Her hand was just contaminated when applying ointment to her pussy and I assume there was no condom to protect the delicate skin parts.
I was the one who got Clamydia in the eye from finger transference!

[QUOTE=Bal541]Well, I'm a paranoid person, did DATY on a girl.

Should I be worried about HIV?[/QUOTE]


Your risk is not calculable. In any case, it is less than 1 in 10,000.

[QUOTE=Lover Boy #2]I don't understand this at all. You say she put some sort of ointment on her vagina...but only gave you a hand job? Why did she put the ointment on her vagina if you were paying for a hand job. Was it her scheduled time for application of medicaments? Personally, if this were the scenario, I would have taken a look at the tube/application device and made a decision as to whether or not to continue. A few years back, some Euro ***** had some cream on her dresser..... as she was in the bathroom preparing for Loverboy's dressing plan, it was noticed that the cream was a cure for yeast infections. I don't know if it was over reacting, but I took a walk out of there...after some polite and well meaning excuses.

Those places in Geylang look very sleazy to me...just the kind of place to avoid. If you feel this situation you have is a direct result of your contact with her, I would consider making the trip to the big city. I disagree with the other poster in that body fluids can be transferred by hand and then rubbing into the skin. Guys have reported even getting Chlamydia from hand contact. We are not doctore (at least I am not)....so for the most part we are the wrong guys to ask. I am not sure that we are all "sex addicts"....but we probably are not the best consultants. If your condition does not improve within a few days, I would consider proper medical care.[/QUOTE]

Thousands of men dedicated to their craft online trading information on where to find women for sex. The best hotels, (are they girl friendly) and the best prices. Sheesh could have fooled me.

Website Medhelp


Hunter Handsfield M.D.
Senior Research Leader, Battelle Seattle Research Center
University of Washington

Title:STD from 'handjob'
Forum: The STDs Forum

Topic: STD - General

From To Post
basketballerr04

06/24/05

About a week ago, I recieved a "handjob" from a prostitute. I did not do anything else and later that night took a shower washing my penis. Lately, I have been experienceing itching/burning in my genital area, especially on my scrotum. It has even turned red. I also have something that looks like a stretch mark or cut on my inner thigh near my penis. Along with this I have been getting random itches/rashses over my body. Last time I had an itchy scrotum my doctor said it was fungal and prescribed me a cream which I started using recently, but still am feeling itchy. Is it possible that I have contracted an STD? Thank you.
Forum-M.D.-HHH



View Profile
Forum-M.D.-HHH
Seattle - WA



06/24/05
See several other strings with similar questions. You can't get an STD or any other infection from a hand job. Your symptoms sound like a fungal infection (yeast or jock itch), not sexually acquired.



HHH, MD

Whilst technically one cannot get an STD from a handjob, in this instance the prostitute smeared her vagina with a cream before commencing said handjob.

It is therefore quite conceivable that she had an STD, which was transmitted to her hand/fingers, which in turn gave the handjob recipient an STD

[QUOTE=Bpd81]You can't get an STD or any other infection from a hand job. Your symptoms sound like a fungal infection (yeast or jock itch), not sexually acquired.[/QUOTE]

There's nothing like bad advice from an expert.

While it is very unlikely you will contract an STD from a handjob, it is certainly possible. And other infections, too. (Ever hear of staphylococcus?) I agree it does sound as if you have a fungal infection and this is one of the easiest to transmit manually. She touched her vagina to apply a cream and then touched you. There ya go. Is it likely? No. Is it possible? Yes.

In any case, it's your dick, man! Something goes wrong, get yourself to a doctor! Good lord. And remember, the symptoms of many of these infections will disappear in a few days without treatment. Think you're cured? Think again, buster. You are still infected and you can pass the disease on and suffer the effects later yourself.

Yes, I am a doctor. No way for me to prove that to you here but, so what? I gave you the best advice ever. TAKE CARE OF YOUR DICK. Go see a doctor.

[QUOTE=Animby]There's nothing like bad advice from an expert.

While it is very unlikely you will contract an STD from a handjob, it is certainly possible. And other infections, too. (Ever hear of staphylococcus?) I agree it does sound as if you have a fungal infection and this is one of the easiest to transmit manually. She touched her vagina to apply a cream and then touched you. There ya go. Is it likely? No. Is it possible? Yes.

In any case, it's your dick, man! Something goes wrong, get yourself to a doctor! Good lord. And remember, the symptoms of many of these infections will disappear in a few days without treatment. Think you're cured? Think again, buster. You are still infected and you can pass the disease on and suffer the effects later yourself.

Yes, I am a doctor. No way for me to prove that to you here but, so what? I gave you the best advice ever. TAKE CARE OF YOUR DICK. Go see a doctor.[/QUOTE]

Animby the DOC in question has years of studying and combating STDs but you made some good points...

[QUOTE=Bpd81]Animby the DOC in question has years of studying and combating STDs but you made some good points...[/QUOTE]


Hunter Handsfield M.D.
Senior Research Leader, Battelle Seattle Research Center
University of Washington

Based on the guy's name, he probably is the world expert on hand jobs (maybe).


"Bumholes1 Whilst technically one cannot get an STD from a handjob, in this instance the prostitute smeared her vagina with a cream before commencing said handjob.

It is therefore quite conceivable that she had an STD, which was transmitted to her hand/fingers, which in turn gave the handjob recipient an STD"

Said report says it all.....said handjob was most certainly more of a sexual experience because said prostitute smeared said cream on said vagina....probably transmitting said STD. BUT....Get some mediacal attention!! (even if it is a said fungus.....you need some said cream yourself)

Hey Doc!

Would one consider a wart on your dick from a HJ, considered a STD?

LBM

[QUOTE=Lover Boy #2]Hunter Handsfield M.D.
Senior Research Leader, Battelle Seattle Research Center
University of Washington

Based on the guy's name, he probably is the world expert on hand jobs (maybe).


"Bumholes1 Whilst technically one cannot get an STD from a handjob, in this instance the prostitute smeared her vagina with a cream before commencing said handjob.

It is therefore quite conceivable that she had an STD, which was transmitted to her hand/fingers, which in turn gave the handjob recipient an STD"

Said report says it all.....said handjob was most certainly more of a sexual experience because said prostitute smeared said cream on said vagina....probably transmitting said STD. BUT....Get some mediacal attention!! (even if it is a said fungus.....you need some said cream yourself)[/QUOTE]
Doctors are known to be very technical and lacking in common sense. One skin specialist told me that it was impossible to have acne (pimples) under my hair on the back of the head and therefore it was dandruff. Later another skin specialist confirmed it was the same as acne but they had a different technical name for it above the hairline.

Apparently Bill Clinton never had "sex" with that girl.
To me a handjob is still a "sex act" and any disease transimitted that way could be viewed as an STD.
Now the fungal infection called Thrush is often trasmitted by sexual acts, e.g. from guy's dick or mouth to girls pussy even though he may have no symptoms other than an itchy dick.
I think thrush is not classiifed as an STD but is still transmittable that way.

Chlamydia is certainly an STD and easily transmitted, far more easily than many doctors believe, and I have got it twice despite using condoms , once by BBBJ and once in the eye by contaminated hand.

Further more, doctors are very skeptical as to whether patients are telling the full truth about how they might have got an STD, so they tend to discount the weirder cases as "patient probably omitting important details"
But once you catch it yourself, your knowledge is enhanced greatly about what is possible.

[QUOTE=Lover Boy #2]Hunter Handsfield M.D.
Senior Research Leader, Battelle Seattle Research Center
University of Washington

Based on the guy's name, he probably is the world expert on hand jobs (maybe).


"Bumholes1 Whilst technically one cannot get an STD from a handjob, in this instance the prostitute smeared her vagina with a cream before commencing said handjob.

It is therefore quite conceivable that she had an STD, which was transmitted to her hand/fingers, which in turn gave the handjob recipient an STD"

Said report says it all.....said handjob was most certainly more of a sexual experience because said prostitute smeared said cream on said vagina....probably transmitting said STD. BUT....Get some mediacal attention!! (even if it is a said fungus.....you need some said cream yourself)[/QUOTE]

Doctor Profiles
H. Hunter Handsfield, M.D.
Senior Research Leader, Battelle Seattle Research Center
Clinical Professor of Medicine
University of Washington



The STD Forum
The HIV Forum
Clinical Interests: Sexually transmitted diseases, HIV/AIDS epidemiology and prevention
Education: Undergraduate: BS with High Honors, Denison University Granville, Ohio 1964
Medical School: Columbia University New York, NY 1968

Postdoctoral Training: Residency: Internal Medicine, University of Washington Seattle, WA 1968-71
Fellowship: Infectious Diseases, University of Washington Seattle, WA 1971-73

Board Certification: 1972 American Board of Internal Medicine
1974 Infectious Diseases
Hospital Appointments: 1978-Present University of Washington Affiliated Hospitals, Seattle, WA
1978-2004 Director, STD Control Program, Public Health - Seattle & King County, Seattle, WA
2004-2005 Visiting Scientist, Divisions of STD and HIV/AIDS Prevention, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Atlanta, GA

Publications: Approximately 250 research publications, chapters, reviews, monographs

Color Atlas and Synopsis of Sexually Transmitted Diseases, 2nd Edition. New York, McGraw-Hill, 2001 (216 pages)
Professional Memberships: International Society for STD Research (President, 2005-2007)
American Sexually Transmitted Diseases Association (President, 1981-1983)
Infectious Diseases Society of America

Jeez, get a life you guys. Why the endless debate? If you got something wrong with your dick, don't waste energy on where or from who or why you got it. Get it seen to immediately.

If not, then our esteemed moderator Jackson might have to start a new forum titled Dickless Sex. Or Orgasms for Amputees.

Any illness or condition you get while having sex is, broadly speaking, a sexually transmitted disease. Some STDs are ONLY transmitted in the course of sexual activity and that's what the doctors consider an STD.

A host of other things MAY be transmitted. Ask the bloke who got gonorrhea in his eye from rubbing it with his finger after putting it in some pussy. Or the person who got fungal infection in his nose from SATY. Sniffing at the Y.

And now to STI. Sexually Transmitted Injury.

I had a very enthusiastic HJ from my current girl friend a few days ago. She had a ring on one of her fingers which scratched the skin on the bobbly bit just below the head of my dick (I guess technically, for all you technically minded pedants, I mean the scar tissue from my circumcision.)

It swelled up real good and was quite painful. To add insult to injury (sexually transmitted injury, that is) I also got a condition quaintly described as "cock strain" by my family doctor when I had it for the first time as a teenager. (Young and dumb and full of come.)

This manifests itself in the feeling that my dick had been through a wringer.

The treatment? Ointment on the swollen bobbly bit. Abstinence for the cock strain.

I'm happy to report that both conditions have been cured.

[QUOTE=Lover Boy #2]Did you stick your tongue deep inside her and drink her juice...or did you just briefly tickle her clit with your tongue? Did you notice if she was shooting her fluid (squirt) into your mouth....or did you just lick her lips briefly and avoid entry of body fluids? I have more questions after you answer these.[/QUOTE]Tongue was deep inside, didn't drink anything.

In terms of DATY, the risky part is micro abrasions in your mouth getting infected vaginal fluid into it right?

I had always assumed that not brushing your teeth before was enough, that the mouth is a hostile place for germs/viruses.

[QUOTE=Bal541]Tongue was deep inside, didn't drink anything.[/QUOTE]

I think with tongue deep inside...anything is possible....not trying to add to your scare, but it is unprotected and a vehicle of body fluid to new host. If she was bleeding, this would have a higher transmission factor due to certain body fluids carrying a higher viral load. An old German ***** monger once told me to resist deep tongue penetration at all costs (this was pre-HIV and the guy is still fucking according to recent reports on the Germany forum)....so it is probably a good advice. Chances are nothing will happen (over 90%)....but it is all a crapshoot when you get yourself into the body fluids at that level. Good luck......maybe get tested in a few months and then you will be confident that nothing happened.

[QUOTE=Lover Boy #2]I think with tongue deep inside...anything is possible....not trying to add to your scare, but it is unprotected and a vehicle of body fluid to new host. If she was bleeding, this would have a higher transmission factor due to certain body fluids carrying a higher viral load. An old German ***** monger once told me to resist deep tongue penetration at all costs (this was pre-HIV and the guy is still fucking according to recent reports on the Germany forum)....so it is probably a good advice. Chances are nothing will happen (over 90%)....but it is all a crapshoot when you get yourself into the body fluids at that level. Good luck......maybe get tested in a few months and then you will be confident that nothing happened.[/QUOTE]
Its not really about what is "possible", as all of life is a crap-shoot.
Its more about statistical odds.
There is little if any data about people catching HIV from DATY.
So statistically it is either non-existent or so unlikely as to not be worth worrying about. I mean being struck by lightning is a more significant worry.

By mouth is an easy way to catch some viruses, e.g. the flu, and bacteria, but fortunately HIV is not one of them.
I have never caught anything from DATY to my knowledge despite deep tonguing.
I must assume (from very limited data) that a BBBJ (receiving oral) is more risky than giving oral, since I got Chlamydia from a BBBJ once.
DFK is very risky as plentiful colds and flu viruses are caught easily.

[QUOTE=Mick Licker]I must assume (from very limited data) that a BBBJ (receiving oral) is more risky than giving oral, since I got Chlamydia from a BBBJ once. [/QUOTE]From what I have read it is generally more STD risky for the lady giving a BBBJ than the guy recieving a BBBJ. Likewise for BBFS the lady is more in danger. And I would guess that performing DATY is more risky than getting a BBBJ.

BTW I have had dozens of BBBJs from various SWs and never caught anything but teeth marks. But I do not practice BBFS or DATY and have ceased from getting BBBJs due to the potential consequences.

What about genital herpes? This is something incurable, and condoms do not protect from this. It is also difficult to tell if a woman is having it. Does anyon know if this is a common disease in thai?

[QUOTE=Ayanthi]What about genital herpes? This is something incurable, and condoms do not protect from this. It is also difficult to tell if a woman is having it. Does anyon know if this is a common disease in thai?[/QUOTE]It is a common disease and although I never went without a condom I have cought it from some girl during my vacations in Samui. What surpriced me the most was that noone of the girls I was with didnt mind about safe sex, it would have been so easy to have sex without a condom.

So compared to the other deseases genital herpes is just nothing to worry about if you sleep with a bar girl, many of them are infected.

[QUOTE=Ayanthi]What about genital herpes? This is something incurable, and condoms do not protect from this. It is also difficult to tell if a woman is having it. Does anyon know if this is a common disease in thai?[/QUOTE]It is a comon disease, I have cought it in Samui from some of the girls I slept with although I never went without a condom, what surpriced me the most was that they don't mind much about safe sex, would have been so easy to sleep with them without a condom. I also heard that lot of bar girls there are infected with gonorrhoea as they get infected from oral sex, which is always without a condom.

[QUOTE=Brasco]It is a comon disease, I have cought it in Samui from some of the girls I slept with although I never went without a condom, what surpriced me the most was that they don't mind much about safe sex, would have been so easy to sleep with them without a condom. I also heard that lot of bar girls there are infected with gonorrhoea as they get infected from oral sex, which is always without a condom.[/QUOTE]So everyone who mongers in Thailand pretty much has genital herpes?

[QUOTE=Ayanthi]So everyone who mongers in Thailand pretty much has genital herpes?[/QUOTE]Well, you must be aware that bargirls in Pattaya for example, have every night sex with at least one guy, thats the way how they make money on living, so there is pretty big possibility you can catch something from oral sex, or something even worse if the condom breaks.

[QUOTE=Ayanthi]So everyone who mongers in Thailand pretty much has genital herpes?[/QUOTE]

I wouldn't go that far but it is a very common thing. The thing is it sits dormant in the spine and only comes out when there is a trigger of some sort. Common ones are stress, excess sun lights. I read somewhere that over 75% of the US population has herpes simplex (cold sores) and about 20-25% have genital herpes. It is not curable.

[QUOTE=Bal541]Well, I'm a paranoid person, did DATY on a girl.

Should I be worried about HIV?[/QUOTE]
Bal541,

no need to be paranoid, but there is a (reduced) risk (compared to unprotected intercourse) of getting HIV via DATY.

The saliva isn't a good environment for the HIV virus due to it's ph value. On the other hand you may have microscopic injuries at your gum, allowing the virus to pass into your blood stream. Bottom line is, avoid unnecessary risks, better safe than sorry.

If I would be you, I wouldn't be too concerned but would test 3 months after the incident for peace of mind. In the meantime practice safe sex with your partner and avoid DATY with a P4P in the future.

[QUOTE=Ayanthi]What about genital herpes? This is something incurable, and condoms do not protect from this. It is also difficult to tell if a woman is having it. Does anyon know if this is a common disease in thai?[/QUOTE]Cover your body in cling wrap and you will be fine.

Works for DATY as well.

It's common for thailand mongers having herpes , most of the time the outbreaks are on the right buttock , any confirmation ?

I heard that the most common spot for genital herpes among Thai working girls is between the toes on the left foot.

Strangely enough, when mongers get it, it appears on the right foot.

[QUOTE=MarcoStraight]It's common for thailand mongers having herpes , most of the time the outbreaks are on the right buttock , any confirmation ?[/QUOTE]
Of course Herpes can tell the right side from the left!!! ROFLMAO :-)

[QUOTE=The Traveler]Bal541,

no need to be paranoid, but there is a (reduced) risk (compared to unprotected intercourse) of getting HIV via DATY.

The saliva isn't a good environment for the HIV virus due to it's ph value. On the other hand you may have microscopic injuries at your gum, allowing the virus to pass into your blood stream. Bottom line is, avoid unnecessary risks, better safe than sorry.

If I would be you, I wouldn't be too concerned but would test 3 months after the incident for peace of mind. In the meantime practice safe sex with your partner and avoid DATY with a P4P in the future.[/QUOTE]

Saliva has certain levels of Virus protection is true.
People should not unduely use mouth wash which can get rid of the benficial saliva. I use Non-alcohol mouth wash as Alcohol has the bad effect of drying up natural saliva somewhat. So best not to drink tequila or other strong liquor immediately before DATY also. I am talking about risks of picking up viruses/bacteria of any type.

A study of lebsbian couples with one partner HIV positive over many years failed to find HIV transmission by DATY.
Risk is probably less than risk of normal sex protected by condoms.This doesn't mean its impossible, just extremely difficult.

Although some studies believe HIV transmission orally occurs in a low percentage, they are mainly assessing risk of receiving sperm in the mouth.
I beleive that DATY has a much lower risk than girls swallowing come juice which already has a fairly low risk.

[QUOTE=Lama Di Bali]I heard that the most common spot for genital herpes among Thai working girls is between the toes on the left foot.

Strangely enough, when mongers get it, it appears on the right foot.[/QUOTE]

No you're wrong, most of the girls I fucked wihtout condoms got spots on the right foot. :rolleyes:

[QUOTE=MarcoStraight]It's common for thailand mongers having herpes , most of the time the outbreaks are on the right buttock , any confirmation ?[/QUOTE]

Nope. With authority I can tell you it is not on the right buttock - it's on the wrong one.

I found a very interesting articel about male semen being an HIV enhancer.

...More than 80 percent of human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) infections are transmitted via sexual intercours...

...The team of German scientists had initially set out to determine if semen contained factors that inhibit the HIV infection. "We were not expecting to find an enhancer, and we were even more surprised about the strength," says report co-author Frank Kirchhoff, a virologist at the University of Ulm Clinic in Germany. "Most enhancers have maybe a two- or three-fold effect, but here the effect was amazing—more than 50-fold and, [color=red]under certain conditions, more than 100,000-fold[/color]."...

...In situations where low levels of virus are transferred—as during intercourse—Kirchhoff says, SEVI can make HIV up to 100,000 times more likely to spread when compared with the virus alone...

[url]http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=male-semen-makes-hiv-more-potent[/url]

[QUOTE=Animby]Nope. With authority I can tell you it is not on the right buttock - it's on the wrong one.[/QUOTE]
Very cheeky, Animby! ;)

[QUOTE=Tiger 888]I found a very interesting articel about male semen being an HIV enhancer.

...More than 80 percent of human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) infections are transmitted via sexual intercours...

...The team of German scientists had initially set out to determine if semen contained factors that inhibit the HIV infection. "We were not expecting to find an enhancer, and we were even more surprised about the strength," says report co-author Frank Kirchhoff, a virologist at the University of Ulm Clinic in Germany. "Most enhancers have maybe a two- or three-fold effect, but here the effect was amazing—more than 50-fold and, [color=red]under certain conditions, more than 100,000-fold[/color]."...

...In situations where low levels of virus are transferred—as during intercourse—Kirchhoff says, SEVI can make HIV up to 100,000 times more likely to spread when compared with the virus alone...

[url]http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=male-semen-makes-hiv-more-potent[/url][/QUOTE]
Well this goes a long way to explaining why it is very difficult to find any evidence of HIV transnission by DATY, and also why girls doing BBBJs with CIM may be taking too much risk.

"SEVI"????

[QUOTE=Mick Licker]Well this goes a long way to explaining why it is very difficult to find any evidence of HIV transnission by DATY, and also why girls doing BBBJs with CIM may be taking too much risk.

"SEVI"????[/QUOTE]
You should read the whole article (that's why I posted the link).

...An analysis of the peptide's structure in semen indicated that it hooked up with similar fragments to create amyloid fibers (clusters of protein fragments that have also been implicated in diseases such as Alzheimer's). The scientists refer to the amyloid fibers as "semen-derived enhancer of virus infection" (SEVI). If they do not link to become fibers, the researchers report, the peptide segments remain inactive and do not enhance viral transmission....

[QUOTE=Mick Licker]Well this goes a long way to explaining why it is very difficult to find any evidence of HIV transnission by DATY, and also why girls doing BBBJs with CIM may be taking too much risk.

"SEVI"????[/QUOTE]Well it depend if the girl pussy is filled up with hiv+ cum then it is almost the same as bbbj + cim

Can anyone recommend a good Medical Clinic to get a full STD check?

I understand the high STD/HIV risks from sex,BBBJ,DATY.and would like to minimise risks

I would therefore not indulge in that(hopefully)

I seek advise on
1.Risks from HJ
2.Soapy with body massage and/or touching breasts/pussy
3.Any way to avoid Herpes?

What if I have a course of cipro/doxycycline before or during my trip to LOS?Would it help

Thanks.

Animby pl advise.

[QUOTE=Tit Luvr2]3.Any way to avoid Herpes?[/QUOTE][url]http://www.freedomantiviral.com/products.htm[/url]

Pre-fix Invisible Condom is a high quality anti-viral sexual lubricant gel that helps to prevent the transmission of all sexually transmitted diseases, including HIV and Herpes.

[url]http://www.slicplus.com/[/url]

Anti-STD Personal Lubricant. If the condom splits, tears or breaks, you still have a 600% greater resistance against contracting an STD.

You have got to be joking. Refer to the United States FADA for the truth.

[QUOTE=Tit Luvr2]I understand the high STD/HIV risks from sex,BBBJ,DATY.and would like to minimise risks[/QUOTE]The best way to minimize risks is to Stay in your Hotel Room and Jerk off.

Or get a girl to Strip and do a show for you in your room and Jerk off over her.

There is a big difference between "preventing" the spread of STDs, and reducing the risk of getting STDs. There certainly ARE lubricants and gels that can reduce the risk of transmission of various STDs by between 50% and 90%,in a single incidence, but they are by no means complete in the protection that they provide. And their efficacy over the long term is less than for a single incident, because when used over a long time, they can cause skin irritations that in themselves increase the likelihood of transmission.

[QUOTE=Tit Luvr2]

I seek advise on
1.Risks from HJ
2.Soapy with body massage and/or touching breasts/pussy
3.Any way to avoid Herpes?

What if I have a course of cipro/doxycycline before or during my trip to LOS?[/QUOTE]

Sorry. I haven't been around much.
1. There is essentially no risk from a hand job.
2. There is essentially no risk from this activity.
3. Yes. Avoid anyone with symptoms (usually small, fluid filled blister-like lesions) and avoid anyone without symptoms as people can be infectious even when the lesions are not visible. Wear a condom. . Live dangerously.

Taking a course of ciprofloxacin or doxycycline BEFORE you get here, may help you be good and clean for the girls. Won't help you none. Plus, taking a course of antibiotics when you don't need them is seldom a good idea. Taking a course WHILE you are here might help but more likely it will just mask any symptoms which will eventually make your wife quite angry.

Really, if you're serious about no BBBJ and no DATY then reread many previous entries on this forum. They are not high risk activities. The worst thing you can do is have unprotected sex, especially anal. So, wear a condom and try not to be too paranoid.Sex should be fun!

[QUOTE=John Dough][url]http://www.freedomantiviral.com/products.htm[/url]

Pre-fix Invisible Condom is a high quality anti-viral sexual lubricant gel that helps to prevent the transmission of all sexually transmitted diseases, including HIV and Herpes.

[url]http://www.slicplus.com/[/url]

Anti-STD Personal Lubricant. If the condom splits, tears or breaks, you still have a 600% greater resistance against contracting an STD.[/QUOTE]

John, thank you for telling me about these products. They had escaped my attention. I checked out the pages you referenced and found ... snake oil. Come on. If these things did what they say they can do, these people would be out buying Microsoft and Google.

Check the ingredients and you'll see these are personal lubricants with the addition of some natural antiseptics and skin soothing botanicals. Nothing there will stop the passage of bacteria and viruses anymore than a good dollop of Vaseline. In fact, Vaseline might work better as it might plug your urethra for the duration of the sex.

The Freedom Antiviral page made several out and out false claims (at least one of which showed a complete lack of understanding of how the herpes virus works). The Slic+ page makes the 600% claim but doesn't give any information about how they derived that number or exaclty what it means.

It doesn't take much of a web search to find that Freedom Antiviral has been the target of an FDA probe and, I assume, if they continue to make these claims, will be again. Slic + seemed more sedate in their claims but I suspect they will eventually go too far.

The claims from both are great but remember, this wonderful internet makes it possible for anyone to claim nearly anything. I might claim my pet is a basset hound but if it goes quacking into the pond, chances are it;s a duck.

When you see wonderful things like this advertised on the web, check into it a little bit. Look for facts not testimonials.

Animby,Many thanks.

I did not understand -Herpes -"avoid anyone with symptoms and avoid anyone without symptoms !"

Doesn't it spread by contact with infected skin/person?

[QUOTE=Member #2041]And their efficacy over the long term is less than for a single incident, because when used over a long time, they can cause skin irritations that in themselves increase the likelihood of transmission.[/QUOTE]
This is especially true for sex workers, who have sex many more times a day than your average sexually active person.

Also, creams that (supposedly) minimise the risk of transmission of HIV and the like, would be unlikely to protect against skin-to-skin infections like warts or herpes. Not to mention pregnancy. Snake oil is right.

Tit Luvr2: You can catch herpes from direct contact with the blisters during an outbreak, but you can also get it from contact with the area just before the blisters break out and for a while after the blisters have healed. You won't be able to see any visible symptoms during these periods.

It's basically impossible to completely protect yourself from herpes - which is what Animby means by 'live dangerously!' Use common sense, look carefully for visible blisters (on the genitals AND on the mouth) and always use a condom. The rest is up to Lady Luck. If sex was completely risk free, there wouldn't be age limits on it.

[QUOTE=Rubber Nursey]This is especially true for sex workers, who have sex many more times a day than your average sexually active person.

Also, creams that (supposedly) minimise the risk of transmission of HIV and the like, would be unlikely to protect against skin-to-skin infections like warts or herpes. Not to mention pregnancy. Snake oil is right. [/QUOTE]

I believe the point of developing such lubricants, Rubber Nursey, is to offer an alternative to no prophylactic at all. In many countries where men still have some alternatives, they will not in great numbers patronize sex-providers who offer poor or substandard experiences - such as the condomsex. With this reality in mind the developers of these products have proposed that such women need an alternative that men will not object to using. Therefore, the proper criteria by which to judge the effectiveness of such creams is relative to normal, natural sex, not to condomsex.

Arguably, if you can alter 'developing' societies in such a way that men no longer have many options sexually, as is the case in the 'first world', you will force them to accept condomsex. I think, however, that this will be a more difficult, long term project, and it is reasonable to credit these creams as at least a useful interim attempt at a solution.

Newsflash, Opebo. Women aren't asking for yet another way for men to shirk their sexual responsibilities. We've taken pills that increase our risk of cancer, used IUDs that make us infertile, bought sponges and caps and spermicides that inflame our vaginas and make us MORE susceptible to infection...all so MEN can have condom-free, consequence-free, responsibility-free sex. Enough is enough. Condoms work better than anything else we have, or are likely to have in the near future. Men just need to stop behaving like spoiled children and start using the damn things.

I've said it before and I'll say it again...P4P is NOT 'normal, natural sex'. It is sex between complete strangers, who know nothing about each others' sexual health or sexual history. Wh*res have sex with five, ten, fifteen or more men a day - certain mongers on this site go bareback from girl to girl (including their wives) and never have an STD test in their lives. This is NOT the kind of environment where you can rely on some ridiculous snake oil spray or lubricant, which was probably only designed to suit married men with vasectomies who have sex with their wives once a fortnight.

Perhaps we need to stop putting so much money into prophylactic research and focus on finding a cure for gross stupidity and selfishness.

[QUOTE=Rubber Nursey] Perhaps we need to stop putting so much money into prophylactic research and focus on finding a cure for gross stupidity and selfishness.[/QUOTE]
I'm afraid that there is not enough money in the world for this one.

[QUOTE=Rubber Nursey]Newsflash, Opebo. Women aren't asking for yet another way for men to shirk their sexual responsibilities. We've taken pills that increase our risk of cancer, used IUDs that make us infertile, bought sponges and caps and spermicides that inflame our vaginas and make us MORE susceptible to infection...all so MEN can have condom-free, consequence-free, responsibility-free sex. Enough is enough. Condoms work better than anything else we have, or are likely to have in the near future. Men just need to stop behaving like spoiled children and start using the damn things.

I've said it before and I'll say it again...P4P is NOT 'normal, natural sex'. It is sex between complete strangers, who know nothing about each others' sexual health or sexual history. Wh*res have sex with five, ten, fifteen or more men a day - certain mongers on this site go bareback from girl to girl (including their wives) and never have an STD test in their lives. This is NOT the kind of environment where you can rely on some ridiculous snake oil spray or lubricant, which was probably only designed to suit married men with vasectomies who have sex with their wives once a fortnight.

Perhaps we need to stop putting so much money into prophylactic research and focus on finding a cure for gross stupidity and selfishness.[/QUOTE][APPLAUSE] Can we make this a post of distinction?[/APPLAUSE]

[QUOTE=Member #2041]I'm afraid that there is not enough money in the world for this one.[/QUOTE]

Amen, 2041.

Rubber Nursey: Thanks for clarifying my remarks. If I ever go back into practice, maybe we can put you on staff.

[QUOTE=Animby]Rubber Nursey: Thanks for clarifying my remarks. If I ever go back into practice, maybe we can put you on staff.[/QUOTE]
Can I wear one of those cute PVC nurses outfits? ;)

[QUOTE=Rubber Nursey]Can I wear one of those cute PVC nurses outfits? ;)[/QUOTE]
It would be the first item in the description of the job responsibilities - assuming you felt compelled to wear anything at all.

[QUOTE=Rubber Nursey]...Enough is enough. Condoms work better than anything else we have, or are likely to have in the near future. Men just need to stop behaving like spoiled children and start using the damn things.[/QUOTE]

I consider masturbation a more effective solution than the one you propose - it feels better, is cheaper, and is even safer.

[QUOTE=Opebo]I consider masturbation a more effective solution than the one you propose - it feels better, is cheaper, and is even safer.[/QUOTE]

It's safer? I had heard that it could make you go blind. And for sure, when it's the only outlet one has, it can drive you crazy.

[QUOTE=Opebo]I consider masturbation a more effective solution than the one you propose - it feels better, is cheaper, and is even safer.[/QUOTE]
Well, it's certainly the safer option for the all girls you're currently putting at risk.

As you know, Opebo, I don't care a damn about your own sexual health, nor do I take issue with your personal aversion to condoms. I hate condoms. As a wh*re I enforced condom use without compromise but, as I have always openly admitted, I rarely practice the same caution in my private life.

What I find so abhorrent is your complete disregard for the wellbeing of others. Putting your own sexual satisfaction over the health and welfare of another is simply unconscionable to me. When I choose to have sex without a condom a) I'm a woman, so I'm at much greater risk of catching something than my male partner is, b) I'm able to make a calculated risk assessment, thanks to extensive sexual health education, c) I have access to alternative contraception, free STD tests and treatment, and the morning after pill (or legal abortion) if necessary and d) I know for a fact that I'm not putting my partner at risk, because I have regular STD checks.

The women you 'convince' to do you bareback don't have these luxuries. You hold all the cards in the transaction. I really don't care if you end up catching something - you are an intelligent man who is well aware of the risk he's taking and you made an informed decision to take that risk. That's your right and I totally respect that, just as I respect a person's 'right' to take drugs or drink or smoke or SELL SEX or engage in any other so-called 'victimless crime' that society doesn't approve of.

But what you do is outright abuse and exploitation. Many (if not all) of these women either don't fully understand the risks, or are not in a position to refuse. Even if they DO understand the risks, do they have access to adequate healthcare after the fact? Can they walk into a free clinic and have an STD test? Can they get a safe abortion if you get them pregnant?

I just can't fathom how you can put so many people at risk (the girls, their partners, their children, the poor responsible clients who come after you and have a condom break, etc) ...all because sex 'feels better' if you're not wearing a condom. That is the most selfish thing I've ever heard.

Thanks for telling Opebo the way it is. Truth is, he does not care. It's his thing to get attention on this forum - the bareback pitch. Best ignore.

JB


[QUOTE=Rubber Nursey].. I just can't fathom how you can put so many people at risk (the girls, their partners, their children, the poor responsible clients who come after you and have a condom break, etc) ...all because sex 'feels better' if you're not wearing a condom. That is the most selfish thing I've ever heard.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Jungle Bluebird]Truth is, he does not care....Best ignore.[/QUOTE]
I don't expect Opebo to pay any attention to me whatsoever, nor will his friends who get pissed off with me for 'preaching' ...but if just one man reads my post and spares a thought for the disadvantaged woman he's considering having unprotected sex with, it's worth it. That's why I can't ignore Opebo.

[QUOTE=Rubber Nursey]...Many (if not all) of these women either don't fully understand the risks, or are not in a position to refuse.[/QUOTE]

I would not jump to the conclusion that these women don't understand. One thing I have learned in interacting with prostitutes from society's lower echelons is that in fact many of them are surprisingly well informed, and are of course often bright, inquisitive people. The assumption that poors are ignorant is not always accurate.

An interesting sign of their understanding of sexual matters is that many of them, as a condition to agreeing to condomless sex, ask that one 'pull out' and ejaculate outside the vagina or anus. This shows that they probably understand that sperm is a necessary cause of pregnancy, and that receiving ejaculate is much higher risk for hiv than finishing outside. Of course, the flaw in this strategy is that most men, once inside, will come inside, but at least the request shows these ladies are cognizant of the issues.

As for refusal, in most cases it is really not all that difficult to find another customer. It would usually just involve waiting a short while. I think what makes it difficult for them to refuse is that many, possibly most, customers insist as I do. So in that respect it is not reasonable to 'blame' me for putting someone at risk when this is commonplace or normal in the 'market'. Lastly I think that many women, particularly those over say 25 or 30, have already had so much condomless sex that they consider themselves 'high risk' and thus do not place a great import on insisting on the condom-usage.

Though I make no apologies for my actions, I do apologize for giving the impression that I comment about this issue on this wonderful board to 'gain attention'. I hope and believe that is not the case. I comment because I think it is an interesting and important aspect of our hobby, and because I think that many pro-condom people are unrealistic in their assumptions about what is going on out there.

In fact I think that condomless sex is just as common as the 'protected' kind in farang-oriented sexual services in Southeast Asia. This is worth talking about for two reasons - 1) some who have not yet visited this part of the world may be seeking bareback, and will appreciate knowing it is available, and 2) others may wish to avoid playing here due to this factor.

[QUOTE=Opebo]I consider masturbation a more effective solution than the one you propose - it feels better, is cheaper, and is even safer.[/QUOTE]That is usually the case, although i find condom sex can at times feel just as good or better than masturbation. Of course playing with one's self alone fails to provide the need for physical intimacy.

What about masturbating with a condom on? That would be even better because what if you are jacking off in a short-time hotel and you spooge all over the place and they don't change the sheets? Couldn't the next hooker who uses the bed get AIDS?

In fact it would be best to sleep with a condom on because you could have a wet dream and this could lead to the same thing. Therefore it is completely irresponsible to ever have your penis uncovered. Just put on a fresh condom every time you take a [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140][CodeWord140][/url]. That's the way to go.

[QUOTE=Dickhead]What about masturbating with a condom on?[/QUOTE]RAOTFLMFAO!!!!!!! Do you also sleep with a hat on to keep your's covered, Dickhead??? :D

[QUOTE=Dickhead]What about masturbating with a condom on? ...Couldn't the next hooker who uses the bed get AIDS?[/QUOTE]
Ha ha, smartypants. My condom diatribe was directed at Opebo, who regularly professes to have bareback 'rough' sex with 'three-holers'. Rough unprotected anal sex is the most high-risk sexual behaviour a person could ever engage in - especially for the girl involved. I find his behaviour incredibly selfish and cruel.

But feel free to have unprotected wet dreams whenever you like, you cheeky bugger. :)

it sort of reminds me of the irish couple who had 9 kids in 8 years so the doctor recommended condoms and a few months later the wife is pregnant again. so the doctor interviews the husband and he swore he wore condoms all the time, every time. but, he did say that after three or four days he had to [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140][CodeWord140][/url] so bad he cut a hole in the end of it.

i find opebo incredible as well. i don't know where he is from but recently he seems to be claiming to live in medellín, colombia, where he goes to an area known as la mayorista (means wholesaler; this is a warehouse district) seeking bbfs. this is one of the worst, most dangerous areas i have ever been to in latin america and that is saying a lot. ****d girls, blatant drug addicts, you name it. having bareback anal in la mayorista to me would be akin to putting a live grenade between your scrotum and your perineum and pulling the pin.

then there is all this talk about "pulling out." another bbfs advocate, col bog, is proud of how he "always" does that. hello? pre-cum? it only takes one? does your dick ever get wet and slippery at the end before you "come"? yes, dad, father, papi, it does. plus these guys who "always" pull out tend to have flexible definitions of "always." there tend to be "mistakes" and "accidents." oh shit baby i am really sorry but you were just so great i couldn't help myself. uh, i gotta go now.

[QUOTE=Opebo]I would not jump to the conclusion that these women don't understand. One thing I have learned in interacting with prostitutes from society's lower echelons is that in fact many of them are surprisingly well informed, and are of course often bright, inquisitive people.

An interesting sign of their understanding of sexual matters is that many of them, as a condition to agreeing to condomless sex, ask that one 'pull out' and ejaculate outside the vagina or anus. This shows that they probably understand that sperm is a necessary cause of pregnancy, and that receiving ejaculate is much higher risk for hiv than finishing outside.[/QUOTE]

I've made my stance on condom use abundantly clear in this forum. I believe 90% of the difference in sensation occurs in the big head, not the small one. But that aside, you, Opebo, show your own ignorance and help prove our point about taking advantage of the girls. The mere fact they believe interuptus is going to protect them shows they are ignorant of the facts.

In fact, there is no need for a full ejaculation to cause pregnancy - though, yes, it increases the odds. But, then, so does the female orgasm. So, I suspect you tell the girl the reason you don't make her cum is for her own protection.

Ejaculation is entirely unrequired for passing STDs. So withdrawal is not going to change a thing. Somehow, though, I suspect you spend a lot of time convincing the girls otherwise.

Opebo, you make me sad. For a minor increase in your own pleasure, you put so many people at risk and then justify it by saying they know the risks and CHOOSE to take them for the obvious reward of your company.

Excellent points, Dickhead, regarding the advisability of keeping covered at all times. I would only interject that I have never been to South America, nor have I claimed so.

As for withdrawal, Animby, it greatly reduces the likelihood of pregnancy and hiv transmission. It is true that it makes little difference regarding minor STDs, but those are of little concern. I however do not find its efficacy an adequate appeal, as the practice is somewhat unsatisfying. Was it Rimbaud who said that there is no pleasure in life like cumming in warm, wet flesh?

Opebo,

I don't want to discuss the use of condoms with you because it is in vain and you are a lost cause. You are one of the reasons why the rest of us should only go covered. I wouldn't even shake your hand.

Nevertheless, you "justify" you misbehaviour by telling us how superior unprotected sex is because a condom would reduce the sensation.
This might be true for a low-life like you who is sticking his dick into everything that can't run away fast enough.

Many others may even want to reduce the sensation to enable them to extend their sessions and prolong them as much as they can.
Ever though about it ?

Guess you even need Viagra and the like to get your unsensitive "head" - the one you seem to think with - up.
Or do you need some shit at the top of it to get aroused ?
Why else do you put your uncovered dick in shitholes ?

Hello friends,

Questions -

0) Is it safe to get a BBBJCIM in BKK?

1) Feb 7 - Chinese new year starts and celebrations continue for 2 weeks, is it going to be all quiet in BKK or will there be action available?

Thanks,
-R.

[QUOTE=Rbamane]
0) Is it safe to get a BBBJCIM in BKK?
[/QUOTE]
Well internet research suggests its a lot safer for the guy than it is for the girl.
I believe girls have been known to get HIV this way, although quite rarely.

[QUOTE=Rbamane]
0) Is it safe to get a BBBJCIM in BKK?
[/QUOTE]
Rbamane,

no, it's not safe !!!

But as Mick Licker already said, it's more risky for the girl than for you. The saliva has a ph-value which isn't ideal for the HIV virus.

Nevertheless, suggest the girls has a bleeding gum, so would you put you r uncovered dick in a blood sample of her ?

Better safe than sorry, this little extra is not worth the risk IMHO.

I ran across this showing probability of transmission from Thai prostitutes to military conscripts was estimated at .056 per contact, after correcting for error in self-reporting. This is very high -- a 1 out of 18 chance an HIV positive hooker will infect the male after a single contact:

[url]http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7904668?dopt=Citation[/url]

Any idea what's going on here? I've read (and believe) the probability of female to male transmission is much lower, say 1/500 or 1/1000 per contact, in Europe and the U.S. But you'd think that there would be enough people in the U.S. or Europe that have the factors that contribute to HIV transmission, like STD's, uncircumisized penises, etc., so that you wouldn't see THAT big of a difference.

This is a subtle point, but: IF you have an STD, your chances of HIV transmission are SIGNIFICANTLY greater. That was mentioned as part of the article that Tiny quoted. But I would like to direct you toward some more concrete information about this. It was written by Emily Oster, and I think it is called "Whither Africa?" It is a fairly long and technical paper. Let me know what you get out of it after you have read it

[QUOTE=Tiny 12]I ran across this showing probability of transmission from Thai prostitutes to military conscripts was estimated at .056 per contact, after correcting for error in self-reporting. This is very high -- a 1 out of 18 chance an HIV positive hooker will infect the male after a single contact:

[url]http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7904668?dopt=Citation[/url]

Any idea what's going on here? I've read (and believe) the probability of female to male transmission is much lower, say 1/500 or 1/1000 per contact, in Europe and the U.S. But you'd think that there would be enough people in the U.S. or Europe that have the factors that contribute to HIV transmission, like STD's, uncircumisized penises, etc., so that you wouldn't see THAT big of a difference.[/QUOTE]IMO the chance of picking up HIV from an infected hooker through a session of unprotected vaginal intercource is more like 1 in 100,000 or a million. With a condom it is virtually nil.

For those who are really worried about STDs, you can always buy XXX DvD's at Pantip or Sukhumvit, Vaseline @ 7/11 store then back to your room to wank off.

[QUOTE=PinkPearl]IMO the chance of picking up HIV from an infected hooker through a session of unprotected vaginal intercource is more like 1 in 100,000 or a million. With a condom it is virtually nil.[/QUOTE]

I think it's higher than that. The lowest transmission rate from a study I've read about for normal couples was 1/10,000, and I think that some were using condoms. That's overall, and admittedly female-to-male would be less than the average.

On the other hand, when you're talking about prostitutes and their customers, like Clandestine says, you've got STD's entering into the picture, which would boost the transmission rate a lot, as indicated by the study of the Thai hookers and the military recruits.

Clandestine, I didn't find the paper, but did run across the Cliff Notes version:

[url]http://www.esquire.com/features/ESQ1206BOWEN_206_2[/url]

What's interesting and relevant to us,

"There is more than one reason why HIV spreads more easily in Africa than America, but the most important one seems to be related to the prevalence of other sexually transmitted infections. Estimates suggest that around 11 percent of individuals in Africa have untreated bacterial sexually transmitted infections at any given time and close to half have the herpes virus. Because many of these infections cause open sores on the genitals, transmission of the HIV virus is much more efficient."

I wonder what percentage of ISG members who actively pursue this hobby and who don't use condoms have untreated bacterial sexually transmitted infections at any given time? Please note that 10-15% of men (and 80% of the women we screw) with gonorrhea have no symptoms. For chlamydia, 50% of men and 75% of women don't have symptoms. There are millions of cases of these diseases in the U.S. annually. And we're a lot more promiscuous than your average American. Then there's herpes. I think about 25% of sexually active women and 15% of sexually active men in the U.S. have the disease. It wouldn't surprise me if 50% of active ISG members have herpes, comparable to the figure in Africa.

So, if a person is going bareback all the time in someplace like Pattaya where there's a lot of HIV among prostitutes, just how much safer is he than the average African? I will admit we are safer -- African prostitutes are maybe 5X or 10X more likely to have the virus versus prostitutes in Pattaya. And we're less likely to have STD's. But again, how much safer? Is it worth playing Russian roulette, even if the gun has, say, a thousand chambers?

BTW, the numbers for unprotected sex with hookers in Africa are worse than the military concripts in northern Thailand -- 0.1 infections per contact in one study.




[QUOTE=Clandestine782]This is a subtle point, but: IF you have an STD, your chances of HIV transmission are SIGNIFICANTLY greater. That was mentioned as part of the article that Tiny quoted. But I would like to direct you toward some more concrete information about this. It was written by Emily Oster, and I think it is called "Whither Africa?" It is a fairly long and technical paper. Let me know what you get out of it after you have read it[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=NicFrenchy]For those who are really worried about STDs, you can always buy XXX DvD's at Pantip or Sukhumvit, Vaseline @ 7/11 store then back to your room to wank off.[/QUOTE]Mate,

Do you happen to know any test kit for STD? Can I buy in Bangkok?

clap is a vaginal fluid test and syph is a blood test. Both require laboratories and rather powerful microscopes. You also needs gram-negative stain to recognize clap. Lesser infections require more powerful testing as well.

The HIV test available over the counter (perhaps not in Thailand, though since I've never asked for it) provides a quick reference that assures you that if it is NEGATIVE, no HIV - If positive, though, it takes a more complex test to confirm (it's called "false positives" - it can show positive for several reasons that are not HIV)

[QUOTE=Forcejam]Mate,

Do you happen to know any test kit for STD? Can I buy in Bangkok?[/QUOTE]You can get the tests done reasonably cheaply at Bumrungrad Hospital.

Excerpt from [url]http://www.avert.org/hivtypes.htm[/url]
Several studies conducted in Thailand suggest that people infected with CRF A/E progress faster to AIDS and death than those infected with subtype B, if they do not receive antiretroviral treatment.8

Are there differences in transmission?

It has been observed that certain subtypes/CRFs are predominantly associated with specific modes of transmission. In particular, subtype B is spread mostly by homosexual contact and intravenous drug use (essentially via blood), while subtype C and CRF A/E tend to fuel heterosexual epidemics (via a mucosal route).

Whether there are biological causes for the observed differences in transmission routes remains the subject of debate. Some scientists, such as Dr Max Essex of Harvard, believe such causes do exist. Among their claims are that subtype C and CRF A/E are transmitted much more efficiently during heterosexual sex than subtype B.9 10 However, this theory has not been conclusively proven.11 12

Is it possible to be infected more than once?

Until about 1994, it was generally thought that individuals do not become infected with multiple distinct HIV-1 strains. Since then, many cases of people coinfected with two or more strains have been documented.

All cases of coinfection were once assumed to be the result of people being exposed to the different strains more or less simultaneously, before their immune systems had had a chance to react. However, it is now thought that "superinfection" is also occurring. In these cases, the second infection occurred several months after the first. It would appear that the body's immune response to the first virus is sometimes not enough to prevent infection with a second strain, especially with a virus belonging to a different subtype. It is not yet known how commonly superinfection occurs, or whether it can take place only in special circumstances.20 21
Do HIV antibody tests detect all types, groups and

Is there any safe sex place in Thailand? Especially in Hathay?

Plan to visit it next week.

Really appreciated.

Thanx bros.

[URL]http://www.bangkokpost.com/topstories/topstories.php?id=126010[/URL]


Giotto

[QUOTE=Giotto][URL]http://www.bangkokpost.com/topstories/topstories.php?id=126010[/URL]

Giotto[/QUOTE]Never doubted it.

according to the bangkok post the aids gel failed, but according to time magazine it failed because the women used it less then 1/2 time they had sex. and only 10% of the women used it every time. Question why did the bangkok post leave out that important info? reffrence is [url]www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1714211,00.html[/url] the experiment was flawed from the very begaing a pity to waste bill gates money. more info at google.com type in aids gel click on search

Tried the Durex Performa last night and all I can say is that it worked for me, in fact, it worked so well that I could not Climax at all for 2 hours.

The Girl hated me for it because she had to work very hard to make me finish.

[url]http://www.adsneeze.com/health/durex-performa-last-longer[/url]

[QUOTE=NicFrenchy]Tried the Durex Performa last night and all I can say is that it worked for me, in fact, it worked so well that I could not Climax at all for 2 hours.

The Girl hated me for it because she had to work very hard to make me finish.

[url]http://www.adsneeze.com/health/durex-performa-last-longer[/url][/QUOTE]
Thats not what I call working. :(
Durex Comfort is thin and gives good feeling. :)
I haven't had a problem coming too quick since I was 18.

Heading on down ( from Japan ) to Phuket in August for my first visit , mostly for chill / r&r / pool / beach / good eats / local sightseeing ... But would love to sample some local NON-professional girls' peds while there . I am willing to pay for a little foot worship and some pics of me in action . Of course over 18 only . I've read that the Thais , perhaps more than people of other country , consider the feet the dirtiest part of the body , which has me thinking that I wouldn't be very successful approaching girls whose feet interested me . What do you all think ? And what would be a fair amount to pay for an hour ? No sex .

Thanks in advance !

S

Been reading and googling and doing my research and find very thin info on recommended clinics for full out STD tests in Bangkok.

Would be of great value to get the name and adress of a good english speaking clinic where you can get yourself tested in a quick and comfortable way in Bangkok.

Any suggestions?

[QUOTE=Pizza Pie]Been reading and googling and doing my research and find very thin info on recommended clinics for full out STD tests in Bangkok.Would be of great value to get the name and adress of a good english speaking clinic where you can get yourself tested in a quick and comfortable way in Bangkok.
Any suggestions?[/QUOTE]

BNH Hospital on Soi Convent can do it. Soi Convent is perpendicular to Silom Rd near Sala Daeng BTS. Go to the 4th Floor Check-up Desk and tell them you want to have a blood test for HIV (might as well do all the STDs while you're at it.) This is not the cheapest place, but it's probably the best "westerner-friendly" hospital in the city. They might try to sell you a check-up package, but tell then you just want the blood test.

You could also go to Bangkok Christian Hospital on Silom Rd. It's cheaper.

[QUOTE=Pizza Pie]Been reading and googling and doing my research and find very thin info on recommended clinics for full out STD tests in Bangkok.

Would be of great value to get the name and adress of a good english speaking clinic where you can get yourself tested in a quick and comfortable way in Bangkok.

Any suggestions?[/QUOTE]
I would have thought just about any cliinic near a Farang mongering area. You certainly wouldn't have to go all the way to Silom if you were in Sukhumwit.

There is a "discussion" going on in the General Reports thread about STD via a BBBJ. Some time ago, someone was talking about getting a STD via DFK. Please forgive my ignorance, guys, this is a genuine question.

If one gets a STD via DFK, where does the infection show itself?

just curious....

Please forgive me if the following is ignorant, but my limited understanding is that the bacteria and viruses associated with STD’s cannot normally survive in the hostile environment of the mouth, which is why contracting an STD from a BBBJ, DATY, or DFK, is so uncommon. I do all this stuff without much worry, but would never think of having bareback intercourse with a WG.

Is there an expert consensus on this?

If I must now begin the practice of no kissing, no eating, and covered blowjobs, perhaps it's time to go back to the art of wanking. :)

[QUOTE=Daddy07]Please forgive me if the following is ignorant, but my limited understanding is that the bacteria and viruses associated with STD’s cannot normally survive in the hostile environment of the mouth, which is why contracting an STD from a BBBJ, DATY, or DFK, is so uncommon. I do all this stuff without much worry, but would never think of having bareback intercourse with a WG.

Is there an expert consensus on this?

If I must now begin the practice of no kissing, no eating, and covered blowjobs, perhaps it's time to go back to the art of wanking. :)[/QUOTE]

It is definitely possible to catch an STD simply from unprotected oral sex. In fact, several STDs can be transmitted via oral sex including herpes, syphilis, chlamydia, and gonorrhea.

In some cases, HIV can also be transmitted during oral sex. Here's what the CDC says about that:

It is possible for either partner to become infected with HIV through performing or receiving oral sex. There have been a few cases of HIV transmission from performing oral sex on a person infected with HIV. While no one knows exactly what the degree of risk is, evidence suggests that the risk is less than that of unprotected anal or vaginal sex.

If the person performing oral sex has HIV, blood from their mouth may enter the body of the person receiving oral sex through

> the lining of the urethra (the opening at the tip of the penis);

> the lining of the vagina or cervix;

> the lining of the anus; or

> directly into the body through small cuts or open sores.

If the person receiving oral sex has HIV, their blood, semen (cum), pre-seminal fluid (pre-cum), or vaginal fluid may contain the virus. Cells lining the mouth of the person performing oral sex may allow HIV to enter their body.

The risk of HIV transmission increases

> if the person performing oral sex has cuts or sores around or in their mouth or throat;

> if the person receiving oral sex ejaculates in the mouth of the person performing oral sex; or

> if the person receiving oral sex has another sexually transmitted disease (STD).

Not having (abstaining from) sex is the most effective way to avoid HIV.

Reference: [url]http://www.onlinedatingmagazine.com/STDs/STDadvice/oralsexstd.html[/url]

Scary isn't it.
Slim

[QUOTE=Daddy07]Please forgive me if the following is ignorant, but my limited understanding is that the bacteria and viruses associated with STD’s cannot normally survive in the hostile environment of the mouth, which is why contracting an STD from a BBBJ, DATY, or DFK, is so uncommon. I do all this stuff without much worry, but would never think of having bareback intercourse with a WG.

Is there an expert consensus on this?

If I must now begin the practice of no kissing, no eating, and covered blowjobs, perhaps it's time to go back to the art of wanking. :)[/QUOTE]
Daddy,

There is no consensus because many people think emotionally rather than on a highly scientific analysis of weighing up actual risk probability against seriousness of the consequences.

I have caught Chlamydia from both BBBJ and from fingering a girl and then touching my eye. So forget this hostile env of the mouth somewhat. However I lived and I didn't give it to anyone.
This very easily transmittable disease is quite treatable with Zithromax. So its not the end of the world.

HIV should be your major concern. I read that studies Lesbians with HIV (on one partner only) and regularly performing DATY on each other found no cases of passing on the HIV. So I am not too worried about DATY.
For BBBJ I believe the girl is at more risk than the man for contracting HIV even if very low risk for both parties.
Not clear exactly how much risk to the man, but statistically very low.

In the end you could be much more likely to be killed in a traffic accident or Tsunami.

Its lucky for us and especially Opebo that HIV is much harder to catch than Chlamydia. However some are living on borrowed time.

Be careful with things that are definitely proven to be very risky.

There has been a lot of discussion about TG's who will go no condom because the customer wants this and offers money to persuade her into this arrangement.

My question is not about the above scenario.

My question is this; have any of you had a lot of TG's (including amateurs) just trying to place the bare penis into them without any discussion of money or interest on the part of the male?

I ask this question because in my own experience over 50% of my choices, including soapies, massage places, bars, go-go, nightclub, amateur, etc., etc......have begun the kissing and messing about....then proceeded to try to place the penis inside of them with no condom...or any discussion about a condom.

I know I have a very beautiful penis (I know a lot of you guys are "hansum man"....I am known as "beautifull penis, much, much")......but this is too much. I just don't get it. I have even (in a moment of panic) said that I am not paying more for no condom (obviously pro situation)...and they still seem to want to have sex with no condom. This only happens to me in Thailand. Any comments?

[QUOTE=Lover Boy #2]

My question is this; have any of you had a lot of TG's (including amateurs) just trying to place the bare penis into them without any discussion of money or interest on the part of the male?

I ask this question because in my own experience over 50% of my choices, including soapies, massage places, bars, go-go, nightclub, amateur, etc., etc......have begun the kissing and messing about....then proceeded to try to place the penis inside of them with no condom...or any discussion about a condom.

[/QUOTE]

I have found this to be very common in lower Isaan provincial cities. There is no request for extra money on top of the usual 300bt (I am talking freelancers here -not massage and bar girls). Even though they take a condom from their bag, they rarely attempt to use it. Opebo who seeks bareback sex has a limited success ratio, maybe because he requests no condom at the outset. Perhaps better to go with the flow, get her worked up and in the mood, and hey presto the condom is forgotten about.

[QUOTE=Lover Boy #2]My question is this; have any of you had a lot of TG's (including amateurs) just trying to place the bare penis into them without any discussion of money or interest on the part of the male?
[/QUOTE]

Yes, well over half my gigs (non P4P) don't even think about a condom until I pull it out. Most times I get some surprised Stares from them as if they would think "what you want to use this?" and they tell me it feels better for them with no condom.

Also, one girl told me she prefers to fuck guys with Small dicks because it is still very enjoyable and does not hurt as opposed to a Farang with a big dick that will leave her with pain in her vagina. She said Thai guy's dicks are perfect size (by the way, this lady is married "Thai Style" to a Farang living in America).

P4P girls are a different story, I have been mounted bareback a few times, had to stop the lady and asked for a rubber. One girl even impaled me bareback @ Akane (of all places).
You have to look after yourself, don't wait for the lady to ask for condom.

[QUOTE=Lover Boy #2]...seem to want to have sex with no condom. This only happens to me in Thailand. Any comments?[/QUOTE]

Where else do you monger, LB? I have read that in Indonesia and the Philippines condom usage is not at all common (and that was my experience in both places). Cambodia is about fifty-fifty. Also back in the U.S. streetwalkers - if you can find any - don't seem to care much, and part-time freelancer types are somewhat flexible. Do let us know where it is you experience the high level of condom-insistence, so we can avoid said locale.

[QUOTE=Bumholes1]...Opebo who seeks bareback sex has a limited success ratio, maybe because he requests no condom at the outset. Perhaps better to go with the flow, get her worked up and in the mood, and hey presto the condom is forgotten about.[/QUOTE]

You are quite correct that this casual, non-insistent method works best, though one does risk the loss of the 300-500 baht if she does in the end require the dreaded instrument of insensibility. However to correct I normally do not broach the topic before taking the girl, at least in Isaan, where options are so limited. The thing is I rarely see any freelancers at all outside Bangkok or Pattaya (and the few I do see are horrible looking), and therefore only go to the small brothels or to soapies, where plastic sex is, alas, de rigueur.

I don't quite understand something.

Are soapies encouraging the girls to go BB if client asks to please him. Or they are very strongly pushing for condom use? I mean lets face it, some euros make a 12 hours trip to fuck, and they don't want to bother with condom, there is a market and it needs to be adressed. And we all know there are some greedy mamasan and papasan A good (and cynical, and greedy) businessman would have a legit front with condoms but would ask extra money (and also discretion) to those clients that want BB.

Also in a soapie let's say at Emmanuelle, Poseidon or similar, if one shells out a 1, 000 note to get BB, what %age of girls is likely to accept?

During my visits I have not asked for BB, but I was never offered it and girls always insisted for condom use. Even recently I noticed more and more girls insist on condom for BJ, I must admit being a BBBJ fan.

[QUOTE=Escort Fan]...there is a market and it needs to be adressed... let's say at Emmanuelle, Poseidon or similar...
...recently I noticed more and more girls insist on condom for BJ, I must admit being a BBBJ fan.[/QUOTE]

Sure there's a market - probably well over half of farang mongers do in fact seek bareback, though they do not admit it here. But one is unlikely to be pleased in those expensive venues you mention, with BB or in any other way. Why anyone would put up with CBJ in those over priced places when BBBJ is available for 500-1,500 baht everywhere in the civilized areas (Bangkok/Pattaya) is beyond me.

You are quite right however to suggest that most men do not fly halfway round the world to f**k the same plastic apparatus they can f**k at home. They mostly fly to f**k actual girls.

You guys know that you can get TB from kissing, right?

Tuberculosis is a much bigger risk than HIV IMO, as HIV is rather hard for a guy to catch from a girl, whereas, if she is HIV infected, there's a fair chance she also has TB, and that is very easily transmitted through saliva.

[QUOTE=Washburn]You guys know that you can get TB from kissing, right?

Tuberculosis is a much bigger risk than HIV IMO, as HIV is rather hard for a guy to catch from a girl, whereas, if she is HIV infected, there's a fair chance she also has TB, and that is very easily transmitted through saliva.[/QUOTE]

Shit man! You trying to squeeze all the fun out of mongering? You must be a real barrel of giggles :). Do Durex do head to toe fitted rubbers - if so I'll bet you have are their number one customer.

I imagine there are several thousand communicable diseases that can be caught from consorting with bargirls. From Acne to Zoonosis, there is a whole gamut of infectious agents just waiting to waylay the poor unsuspecting monger. Best stay at home then and jack off :D

[QUOTE=Opebo]Where else do you monger, LB? I have read that in Indonesia and the Philippines condom usage is not at all common (and that was my experience in both places). Cambodia is about fifty-fifty. Also back in the U.S. streetwalkers - if you can find any - don't seem to care much, and part-time freelancer types are somewhat flexible. Do let us know where it is you experience the high level of condom-insistence, so we can avoid said locale.
[/QUOTE]

My major mongering venues;

1. Germany-all condom at FKK, sex party and swinger party. In hundreds of encounters, bareback was requested by a girl from Thailand and one from Dominican Repuplic.....in the pro arena. Non-pro usually no condom requested.

2. Netherlands-100% condom at pro level...never offered bareback once in my whole life. Even amateur....condom required.....but limited experience in this mode.

3. Colombia SA- I always used condom....it was never offered otherwise by pros. Amateur encounters....condom relaxed after girl became "girlfriend".

4. Argentina- Condoms used by all pros....amateurs..not.

5. Dominican Republic- Condoms used by all pros....limited experience since 1990.

6. Panama- Condoms used by pros...bareback not offered or moved into by pros.

7. Mexico- all condom

8. Brazil- all condom pros in venues I use....amateurs...no.

9. Cuba- mostly condom with pros......no condom probably available.....non-pro no condom.

10. Czech Rep.- condom with pros.....definitely not available because girl thinks you are cute or have a very pretty man prong. Friend advises it is available for a huge price.

11. Norway- condoms with all pros

12. Philippines- only have experience in Angeles with bar girls.....condom was used.....girls seemed a bit uninterested in brand or fit. Maybe if pushed it would be available.

13. Indonesia/Bali- I only used condom...girls very skanky and really did not smell nice.....I wish I had a condom for my entire body....it seemed like they appreciated my use....I think they might go sans condom....I would rather not know.

14. Thailand......over 50% of girls (even from higher priced venues in BKK)....suddenly start to put your penis inside with no condom and no discussion about this at all. They seem to get very excited at that point and only want to fuck. It is the only place I have seen this excitement level with pros....to where they don't even realize what they are doing. Also, once you are considered "boyfriend"....I have not had one Thai girl that did not want to go bareback....even getting angry and suspicious when condom was insisted on.

Of course all of this is my limited experience (I can only fuck so much!!) and I would like to beleive that I am picking from a high grade and gov't inspected class. In Cuba for example.....there are street girls everywhere who probably do bareback....but I don't have personal knowledge of this, as I only go to nighclubs to make choices of professionals.

(P.S. It is my personal choice to use condoms on these encounters. I am personally in a position where a minor STD would cause a lot of pain in my personal life....but even with this, I have never had a bj with condom ever. I understand the risk with this, but as informed as I am....still choose to go sans condom on the bj...as it seems a total waste of time with condom....I only add this as full disclosure and to illustrate that I understand the mindset of those going without for the full act.)

[QUOTE=Washburn]You guys know that you can get TB from kissing, right?

Tuberculosis is a much bigger risk than HIV IMO, as HIV is rather hard for a guy to catch from a girl, whereas, if she is HIV infected, there's a fair chance she also has TB, and that is very easily transmitted through saliva.[/QUOTE]

I posted something about this in another area of this forum, as I personally beleive this is your biggest danger out there. There are anti-biotic resistant strains of this bacterium and if you have intimate and prolonged contact with an infected person, you might test positive. Your body does have an immune system however.....so try to keep your body strong. Unfortunately that 2-3 week holiday of drinking, not sleeping, overexertion, not eating right and all the other things we do to our bodies is not positive for good health and disease resistance. That is why many short time mongers come down with throat infections and a cough on their "holiday". You really have to be careful with this...and no condom is going to help you. It is however true that everyday of your life you come in contact with microbes that might be very unhealthy if they got a foot hold on your system. It is fortunate that most of this stuff is fought off. If a girl looks unhealthy...is coughing...complaining of not feeling well...probably best not to get in her face and start swapping spit!!

[QUOTE=Washburn]

You guys know that you can get TB from kissing, right?

[/QUOTE]


Guy picks up a girl in a bar and goes back to his room. While DFK, she coughs and the guy feels something in his mouth.

He says "I think you lost your chewing gum."

She say "It's not chewing gum, it's a piece of my lung, I have TB."

Slim

[QUOTE=Lover Boy #2]

My major mongering venues;

Cut---Cut

Of course all of this is my limited experience (I can only fuck so much!!) and I would like to beleive that I am picking from a high grade and gov't inspected class.

[/QUOTE]

Limited? Sounds quite comprehensive to me. Agree about BBBJ, whats the use if you have to wear a condom.

Thanks,
Slim

[quote=bay04]i am curious if you can name the lady who provides bbfs? do most ladies provide this service if they are asked? my understanding is that this option is not available. i would be scare of going there again, if this is the case.[/quote]

[quote=mouse1]o****
i would be very grateful if you could provide the name of the lady who provided bbfs, either here or by pm. i go there regularly and would prefer to avoid her, and any potential complications... this is a serious request.[/quote]

gentlemen, i cannot of course in good conscience reveal any specific information about one of our wonderful service providers. besides, i'm very sure that every woman you have ever had sex with, except perhaps a junior high school sweetheart you may have devirginized, has previously had sex in the natural way at some point in her life. i'm also quite sure that nearly all prostitutes occasionally do so with customers, particularly in this delightful country. finally, i'm quite sure that if you yourselves resolutely take the precautions to which you imply you are so strongly committed, you will be alright, regardless of the girl's general policy.

[QUOTE=Opebo]I'm also quite sure that nearly all prostitutes occasionally do so with customers, particularly in this delightful country.[/QUOTE]

Indeed.

Being 19 myself, I ask for BBFS all the time and get it, no problems or rejections. If you are young and handsome you get the same treatment. Ahhhhhhh, Thai mentality.

Rguy89,

I'll say it before someone else does! At your age you will be lucky to make it to Thirty.

I'm in my Fifties and not handsome like you and I have never had to ask! yet I've have been offered many times BBFS, which I alreadys decline for personal obvious reasons except once when I actually drank alittle too much and things were going so great I just forgot. We were in the tub and I even soap up her ass and did that too. After I woke up I realized what I did and felt so sick I couldn't get it up for a few weeks.

Just my opinion, I suggest you cover up before it's too late. Even at 19 it's nothing to brag about.

Good health,

LBM

[QUOTE=Opebo]I'm very sure that every woman you have ever had sex with, except perhaps a junior high school sweetheart you may have devirginized, has previously had sex in the natural way at some point in her life. I'm also quite sure that [b]nearly all prostitutes occasionally do so with customers, particularly in this delightful country[/b]. [/QUOTE]

This is unfortunately true

Cheers My Fellow Mongers,

Well don't where to strat I am 31 and I have been mongering with WGs since I was 24 before that I was doing sex only with my gfs (mono relationship) and even though I have practiced safe sex may be two or three times I got BBFS but only with the first gf when I was in college the one who took my virginty and my last girl who I have been with for 7 years, 4 years ago I was with a wgs and although I was using condoms I got feared that I may be contracted std namely HIV I went to do several check ups for almost a year and since the wg was from my country I forced her to made a checkup too and she was clean and and got into dilema I don't want anyone to enter thank GOD I was ok I read a lot of stuff about safe sex not that I was not knowing about it but I was intending to abstain sex however after a year I couldn't make it so I strated mongering abroad but I was taking extreme measures check condoms, used brand names Durex and bring my own although when I was in prague some of the girls requested to used there condoms but it was a good one never do sex when I am drunk, clean and sober, usually I don't allow BBBJ unless the girl is clean although I enjoy daty yet not with anyone no anal sex since it increases the chances of tearing the condom.

Please take care all for your sake and the sake of your beloved ones you want to enjoy sex fine sure there is nothing safe 100% but at least minimize the risk read alot about safe sex and take the necessary precautions.

Stay safe be well.

[QUOTE=Gamahucher]Number one rule of mongering for me - enjoy yourself but keep as safe as practicably possible.[/QUOTE]

This is my rule as well, Gamahucher. Since for me there is no enjoyment whatsoever in the plastic sex, it does not interest me at all. If I wished to be totally safe while enjoying myself I would stay home and masturbate, as that is in any case much more fun and certainly cheaper than plastic sex.

[QUOTE=Piper1]...Opebo, the...loser in life...
[/QUOTE]

Piper, you and I have a difference of taste. Are you saying that because I like A, I lose, and because you like B, you win? I don't think this follows as we are not playing a game, nor is there any objective criteria for evaluating such matters.

In light of this, why attack your brother monger? I'm aware our tastes differ, but I regardless have nothing but sympathy for your good self.

[QUOTE=Piper1]...Opebo, the sex-diseased loser in life (at least Opebo admits to his diseases)...[/QUOTE]
Is that really necessary?

Why do so many fine gentlemen on this board pick on Opebo, a very nice man who contributes great reports, but happens to like bareback sex and works for low wages as a teacher of English in Thailand.

He's the one taking the risks. You aren't.

Let it go for once.

[QUOTE=Daddy07]Is that really necessary?

Why do so many fine gentlemen on this board pick on Opebo, a very nice man who contributes great reports, but happens to like bareback sex and works for low wages as a teacher of English in Thailand.

He's the one taking the risks. You aren't.

Let it go for once.[/QUOTE]

I more or less agree with you.

Initially, when he first appeared on here, Opebo really annoyed me and I was highly critical of him. Also, I felt that he was exploiting girls for his own particular preferences. But, so many P4P girls are actually condom-optional by choice, and there are a lot more mongers than one cares to admit, who are also the same way, that I think it is quite unfair to put all the responsibility on him.

He is often a provocateur with his lifestyle choices and views. But, so are we all to varying degrees, me more than many others. He does contribute considerably to the board with real information and does it with consistent intelligence and is often quite entertaining.

Therefore, he should not be lumped in with some of the new breed of ignorant, uppity 'youngins' and newbies on here who contribute nothing and insult many long-standing members.

[QUOTE=Opebo]This is my rule as well, Gamahucher. Since for me there is no enjoyment whatsoever in the plastic sex, it does not interest me at all. If I wished to be totally safe while enjoying myself I would stay home and masturbate, as that is in any case much more fun and certainly cheaper than plastic sex.
[/QUOTE]

None of us enjoy what you call 'plastic sex' but surely the issues involved are beyond personal enjoyment and pleasure. Some poor bastard (could be me or another ISG member) could be next in line for a girl after you have been with her. Now I am not presuming you are infected with anything really nasty but if you are constantly bareback in Thailand like you say, then the odds are loaded against you. So despite my best efforts at sexual hygiene, I have a small chance of picking up the fucking parcel you have just passed. So its not just a personal health responsibillity but one to the tarts you poke and ultimately to your fellow mongers.

Or do you really not give a shit.

I have never met Opebo and don't know his age and don't have anything against him or his choice of going BBFS, it does feel good there is not question about that.

But being older and certainly being a teacher I would have thought that he would have a more educated sense in what his decision to go BBFS would mean.
I'm confused about his remarks that because his choice is A, that he lose. Isn't it a medical fact that your chances are greater if you go BBFS with a P4P, that you might catch a STD? IF the answer is yes! then would that fact be a " a objective criteria for evaluating such manners " and that you do have a greater chance of catching something than B!

Regardless, the choice is Opebo and I wish him good health in his choice. As for Rguy89, he just too young to know better, too young and embrassed to go into 7/11 and buy a condom, and too young to know the art of putting one on without missing a beat.

In the end I let this go with wishing everyone good health regardless of their choice.

LBM

[QUOTE=Escort Fan]I'm quite sure that 12 years ago everyone & their mum barebacked in BKK.

.[/QUOTE]

That was certainly true in Pattaya, and not too far from the truth today if you exclude the soapie and Go-go girls.

"He's the one taking the risks. You aren't"

Imho that's not completely true, I lost a condom the other night while doing the deed and since STD's are spread around(mostly) trough BB-sex, the chance of me getting infected is (very little maybe) increased by anyone banging away without a condom.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not holding it against anyone that does bbfs, but it's just not completely true that it's only his/her risk.

[QUOTE=Gamahucher]None of us enjoy what you call 'plastic sex' but surely the issues involved are beyond personal enjoyment and pleasure. Some poor bastard (could be me or another ISG member) could be next in line for a girl after you have been with her.
So despite my best efforts at sexual hygiene, I have a small chance of picking up the fucking parcel you have just passed.
.[/QUOTE]


You are putting the possible blame on Opebo just because he has admitted going bareback. Chances are the girls he barebacks with do so with most punters Thai and Farang. The chances are far greater that if you should catch something it is because some anonymous punter has been there before you. Given that it would appear that most girls bareback at sometime, then maybe you should stay home and have a wank!

[QUOTE=Gamahucher]None of us enjoy what you call 'plastic sex' but surely the issues involved are beyond personal enjoyment and pleasure. Some poor bastard (could be me or another ISG member) could be next in line for a girl after you have been with her...So despite my best efforts at sexual hygiene, I have a small chance of picking up the fucking parcel you have just passed. So its not just a personal health responsibillity but one to the tarts you poke and ultimately to your fellow mongers...[/QUOTE]
Yes, but you probably have a far greater chance of picking up the fucking parcel her Thai BF left inside her, as I'm told that very few Thai men will tolerate condoms.

I don't agree with Opebo's nonchalance about bareback sex, I won't do it, but I also don't agree with all the vitriol he receives on this board for his life choices, which have little or no effect upon you or I. No one is going to change his mind. He takes the abuse but never fights back. I find the constant unmerciful viciousness toward him quite irritating and unnecessary.

This thread should be a place to debate -- not insult fellow posters. I take plenty enough chances myself eating raw pussy and receiving BBBJ's. So maybe I'm long overdo for some verbal poison as well.

Even now, it is very easy to have condomless sex in Thailand, for many reasons:

1. many girls do not care much, it is in their mentality to be fatalistic and fun-loving.
2. if you go to MPs that cater to the Asian market, condom use is not so frequent, as many Asian men do not want to use it. (They seem to believe AIDS is a Farang thing, that is why many such places are Asian only).
3. Girls can be carried away by the moment and lose track of whether you use a condom or not.
4. if you are with a girl for some time, she will easily consider that she is your GF, and in their mind GF-sex is condomless. "Some time" might mean several days, or just the second shot of the first encounter.

For all those reasons, you should never count on the girl to be the one enforcing safe sex. You are in charge, and you need to be strong enough to use condoms in all circumstances, because the choice is often entirely yours. Any other approach is in the area of risk management.

Regarding AIDS, there has been a furious debate on this forum, that prompted Jackson to set up this very thread. Initially, the legendary Bernard Trink drew the attention of readers of his column in the Bangkok Post to the then little known debate going on between the holders of the “official wisdom” on HIV/AIDS and a bunch of scientists. They believed that there were many holes in that wisdom and though that it was no more than a theory that still had to be proven, and a rather weak theory at that.

This is very well documented on the web, and anybody can form his own opinion. Mine is indeed that 30 years and billions of research dollars later, we are still with more questions than answers, which tends to discredit a lot of what popular wisdom holds as obvious in that matter.

This being said, safe sex (or rather safer sex) remains very much a necessity even if you discard any concern about HIV. Casual sex, especially p4p, is inherently a high risk activity. There are many nasty things that can be caught, most are curable, but the treatment might not be pleasurable at all.

If Opebo sets himself up as a target, by admitting his unhealthy preferences, then he should expect a few potshots to come his way, particularly on this thread, although personal insults are not constructive and I don't think I made any. I concede that he is the one taking the major risk and its his lifestyle call to make and if his partners are foolish enough to allow uncovered sex (why should they care if they are poxed up to the eyeballs anyway, and whats one more STD amongst friends) then so be it. I think Opebo says that he uses the cheapest 500 baht street hookers anyway which tend to be the preserve of major risk takers anyway and not the daily fare of mainstream mongers. Perhaps because of this, they are keeping their nasty practices and infections amongst a small pool of skanky tarts and their sleazy customers. But I somehow doubt it!

[QUOTE=Gamahucher]I think Opebo says that he uses the cheapest 500 baht street hookers anyway which tend to be the preserve of major risk takers anyway and not the daily fare of mainstream mongers.[/QUOTE]

If my memory serves me right, he also used Tulip MP, which is, nowadays the most popular Oily venue on ISG

[QUOTE=Seydlitz]...

1. many girls do not care much, it is in their mentality to be fatalistic and fun-loving.
[/QUOTE]
"Fatalistic" character is surely one of the biggest weaknesses in the Thai character that westeners cannot fathom.
The belief that they have little control over their own destiny and that if they are destined to die, they will.
Risky behaviour is O.K. whther its smoking, riding the motor-bike with no helmet or whatever.

They just pray to the Bhudda and expect that that the bad people will be punished by their future bad Kharma, and the good will eventually be rewarded, even if its in a future life.
But we see no evidence to support this belief. We know that bad shit happens to good people who take risks and fail to control their own destiny.

Whats even worse is that in Thailand you cannot discuss risky behaviour that could lead to death. Its an off-limits topic seen as courting bad luck rather than the reality that its best to discuss dangers in order to avert them

[QUOTE=NicFrenchy]If my memory serves me right, he also used Tulip MP, which is, nowadays the most popular Oily venue on ISG[/QUOTE]

Oh bugger - you've spoiled by pathetic illusion. You will be telling me next he is an Eden regular :).

[QUOTE=Gamahucher]Oh bugger - you've spoiled by pathetic illusion. You will be telling me next he is an Eden regular :).[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Opebo]Visited Tulip one rainy day, and did recieve a very decent BBBJ and ok BBFS, but the anal promised by the receptionist at the desk did not transpire - just wouldn't fit.

The service was ok and the atmosphere relaxing, but really to pay 2,100 for what is no better than that available elswhere in Bangkok for 1,000 or so seems strange to me.[/QUOTE]

There it is... I can already see the Sign in front of Tulip: "OPEBO WAS HERE" LOL

[QUOTE=Gamahucher]Oh bugger - you've spoiled by pathetic illusion. You will be telling me next he is an Eden regular :).[/QUOTE]

Used to be, Gamahucker, and when I was I always got bareback with anal creampie - by sticking to the same girls I lucked out with of course. But that was years ago when I was flush from the US. In those days 3,200 or 3,600 baht hardly fazed me; now it does.

Alright, so I'm shitting bricks right now. My ex-girlfriend went for an HIV test a week ago and it came back "inconclusive". She went back again yesterday, and had the same result: "inconclusive". The test she had was ECLIA (at least that's what it says on the report). She had another test done that was more in-depth but the results won't be back for another week. She hasn't had sex with anyone but me. The doctor told her that it will probably come back negative, since there were two inconclusive results, and in his experience, they come back negative. He also said that the test given wasn't the most reliable (or "no good" as she called it).

There are 3 potential girls that I'm worried about. One girl I met in the Red Light bar on Soi 6 in Pattaya. We went up to the ST room and, well, the tip of my dick brushed her wet pussy when she was on top of me. I quickly wiped it off. I just called her - she had an HIV test yesterday and everything was fine (she was actually a bit worried that I was even calling).

The same thing happened with a girl in Cambodia - my dick just brushed her pussy before I put the condom on. Haven't been able to reach her yet.

The third girl is a girl named Joy who works at Sakura 69 go-go in Pattaya. We had unprotected sex (yes, I know, very very stupid) about 2 months ago. She assured me she was clean and I went to see her again last week --- she was still working at the same place, and I believe that these girls have regular checks.

I'm too afraid to go to hospital myself to get a test done, but might have to force myself. Honestly, I have never been this scared before in my life.

[QUOTE=Mangofan]Alright, so I'm shitting bricks right now. My ex-girlfriend went for an HIV test a week ago and it came back "inconclusive". She went back again yesterday, and had the same result: "inconclusive". The test she had was ECLIA (at least that's what it says on the report). She had another test done that was more in-depth but the results won't be back for another week. She hasn't had sex with anyone but me. The doctor told her that it will probably come back negative, since there were two inconclusive results, and in his experience, they come back negative. He also said that the test given wasn't the most reliable (or "no good" as she called it).

There are 3 potential girls that I'm worried about. One girl I met in the Red Light bar on Soi 6 in Pattaya. We went up to the ST room and, well, the tip of my dick brushed her wet pussy when she was on top of me. I quickly wiped it off. I just called her - she had an HIV test yesterday and everything was fine (she was actually a bit worried that I was even calling).

The same thing happened with a girl in Cambodia - my dick just brushed her pussy before I put the condom on. Haven't been able to reach her yet.

The third girl is a girl named Joy who works at Sakura 69 go-go in Pattaya. We had unprotected sex (yes, I know, very very stupid) about 2 months ago. She assured me she was clean and I went to see her again last week --- she was still working at the same place, and I believe that these girls have regular checks.

I'm too afraid to go to hospital myself to get a test done, but might have to force myself. Honestly, I have never been this scared before in my life.[/QUOTE]Hiv is not the "perfect virus" in fact its far from it. Quite docile in terms of transmission and you are not going to get it by brushing your dick a little against a wet pussy.

Unprotected sex. Well it depends on her and you. If you have a foreskin then the chances are much higher than if you are circumcised (thousands of years of history are not wrong, there is a reason the Egyptians, and all the old religions circumcised their boys). The foreskin is very active receptor of HIV, and a small tear in it, rubbing inside an infected pussy that might have some blood traces around, and you can get it. Its not impossible.

For someone to give it to a girlfriend, its much easier, as an infected person deposits a load of HIV juice into a girl, and it only has to find a small chink in the armour inside there, and if its rough sex there will be many, and its inside and away.

There is no point worrying, whats done is done, and the earlier you get checked the happier you will be if its negative, or the better off you will be if its not. Hiding and not getting tested is really not an option, it achieves nothing, you are only kidding yourself, whats done is done is done.

To be positive about this, it really is quite difficult for men to get it if its just normal sex with a girl, not impossible, but quite difficult.

Get a check. Hopefully you will be all clear.

Get her to get a proper check. You do not know what she has been doing. Be honest. Unless you are with her 24/7. A quick fuck with someone only takes 30 mins, and many girls have giks and gaks.

Its quite common for a girl to have HIV, but then 90% of the guys she slept with are clear. Its not the "perfect virus". If it were, we would all be dead already.

[QUOTE=Mangofan]Alright, so I'm shitting bricks right now. My ex-girlfriend went for an HIV test a week ago and it came back "inconclusive". One girl I met in the Red Light bar on Soi 6 in Pattaya. We went up to the ST room and, well, the tip of my dick brushed her wet pussy when she was on top of me.

The same thing happened with a girl in Cambodia - my dick just brushed her pussy before I put the condom on. Haven't been able to reach her yet.

The third girl is a girl named Joy who works at Sakura 69 go-go in Pattaya. We had unprotected sex

I'm too afraid to go to hospital myself to get a test done, but might have to force myself. Honestly, I have never been this scared before in my life.[/QUOTE]
You're sure the brushing up against the two chick's pussies wasn't intentional or did you do more just brushing up. Highly unlikely you would be infected from just that as you need some fluid/blood transmission to make the leap to HIV.

You can sit at home and worry yourself to death or youu can go get tested, if you are infected (and I hope you are not) at least you can start with your treatment. Magic Johnson has been infected since 1992 and with his medication, diet and exercise, he seem to be at peace and living a normal (as much as can be expected) life. Since you already placed your self at risk by having BB sex with a hooker, get tested so you can minimize the hazards, if there are any. Chok dee!

Let me give you some perspective. I have probably bareback-fucked over a hundred hookers in a dozen countries over the past 8-10 years, including Thailand, Cambodia, Mexico, Argentina, Vietnam, China, Costa Rica, Panama, the Dominican Republic, Jamaica, St. Maarten, and the U.S. I get tested every few months. In all of this time, I picked up exactly one case of Chlamydia which a couple of Cipro pills cleared right up. My dick did not brush up against these pussies. I fucked them deep and hard until I came inside them.


[QUOTE=Mangofan]Alright, so I'm shitting bricks right now. My ex-girlfriend went for an HIV test a week ago and it came back "inconclusive". She went back again yesterday, and had the same result: "inconclusive". The test she had was ECLIA (at least that's what it says on the report). She had another test done that was more in-depth but the results won't be back for another week. She hasn't had sex with anyone but me. The doctor told her that it will probably come back negative, since there were two inconclusive results, and in his experience, they come back negative. He also said that the test given wasn't the most reliable (or "no good" as she called it).

There are 3 potential girls that I'm worried about. One girl I met in the Red Light bar on Soi 6 in Pattaya. We went up to the ST room and, well, the tip of my dick brushed her wet pussy when she was on top of me. I quickly wiped it off. I just called her - she had an HIV test yesterday and everything was fine (she was actually a bit worried that I was even calling).

The same thing happened with a girl in Cambodia - my dick just brushed her pussy before I put the condom on. Haven't been able to reach her yet.

The third girl is a girl named Joy who works at Sakura 69 go-go in Pattaya. We had unprotected sex (yes, I know, very very stupid) about 2 months ago. She assured me she was clean and I went to see her again last week --- she was still working at the same place, and I believe that these girls have regular checks.

I'm too afraid to go to hospital myself to get a test done, but might have to force myself. Honestly, I have never been this scared before in my life.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Member #2041]Let me give you some perspective. I have probably bareback-fucked over a hundred hookers in a dozen countries over the past 8-10 years, including Thailand, Cambodia, Mexico, Argentina, Vietnam, China, Costa Rica, Panama, the Dominican Republic, Jamaica, St. Maarten, and the U.S. I get tested every few months. In all of this time, I picked up exactly one case of Chlamydia which a couple of Cipro pills cleared right up. My dick did not brush up against these pussies. I fucked them deep and hard until I came inside them.[/QUOTE]

Same here, except I haven't been to that many countries. No problems - and I came inside them.

[QUOTE=Rguy89]Same here, except I haven't been to that many countries. No problems - and I came inside them.[/QUOTE]

Hey guys - you are welcome to your bragging rights - most mongers would rather stay modest, covered (for penetrative sex at least) and safe. It just takes one hived up w**** to [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140][CodeWord140][/url] on your fireworks - for good. GH

[QUOTE=Mangofan]I'm too afraid to go to hospital myself to get a test done, but might have to force myself. Honestly, I have never been this scared before in my life.[/QUOTE]

I sympathise with your ordeal. The best way out is indeed to get yourself tested. I am pretty sure that your will get out of it with a big sight of relief.

As you may not know, there is massive controversy around the entire HIV/AIDS thing, and in particular as far as tests are concerned. I am no expert in this but the way I understand it, the medical industry has have never quite isolated and cultivated “pure” HIV strains that could be used to devise specific tests, i.e. tests that react to HIV and only HIV. Hence the high number of “false positives” etc.

You might want to search the web on this. You will easily get to the roots of the controversy, and you will be able to form your own opinion.

Personally, I consider that intercourse with strangers is inherently a high risk activity. Practicing safe sex is a must, no doubt about that. This being said, consensual heterosexual sex with otherwise healthy young females has to be considerably less risky than many other options available. In terms of probability, there is a much higher risk of catching something possibly nasty but very curable, than the elusive HIV.

Get to the hospital and take the test. You will be fine.

[QUOTE=Gamahucher]Hey guys - you are welcome to your bragging rights - most mongers would rather stay modest, covered (for penetrative sex at least) and safe. It just takes one hived up w**** to [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140][CodeWord140][/url] on your fireworks - for good. GH[/QUOTE]

I'm not bragging. The fact is, I've posted over 770 times on this forum prior to this, without making the admission I did earlier in this thread previously. I am simply trying to inject some realistic data into the most stigmatized topic for discussion that there is. I am not saying that there are not risks. I am saying that, from a simple numeric perspective, the risks have been wildly over-stated by the mainstream media. The risks are real, but some of these risks are also small in probability, while other of these risks are small in consequence. Similarly, the benefits too are real - and to me, not so small.

The fact is, the odds of catching something from someone even if they are infected, are not large per single unprotected encounter. And the odds that someone is actually infected with something that is serious and not easily cured is pretty darn low. Not zero, for sure. But the reality is, the odds are miniscule per encounter.

if I had to compare a 1 in 100 chance of getting HIV over the course of my lifetime from unprotected heterosexual sex, and perhaps a 1 in 10 chance of getting something less serious per year which would not significantly impact my life, against an existence where I never experienced unprotected sex over the course of my lifetime - I have made my own decision. And the full sexual experience is too important as an aspect of fully living life. It's no different from choosing to eat rich, tasty food, or choosing to drive a car that is fun and exciting. Living life to the fullest is riskier than living a cloistered existence. But the richness of the experience of living it in such an enjoyable manner is worth the added risk - at least to me.

Now the fact is, I do not have any children who depend upon me, or a significant other. If I did, these factors would likely impact my weighting of the risks and rewards I associate with the way I live my life. But, it is what it is. I live my life with my eyes fully open - but live it I do, in all it's glory.

Some people prefer hang-gliding, or skiing, or drinking heavily - these activities are also risky. I personally prefer having sex in it's natural form.

Oh, and I don't fuck visibly hived up whoores. That's a relatively simple means of lessening the risks somewhat - at zero cost.

a class i took once stated that a man has a 1 in 214 chance of contracting hiv from an hiv positive female from heterosexual unprotected sex while a woman has a 1 in 14 chance of contracting the virus from unprotected sex with an hiv positive man.

however, the presensce of other stds increases the risk of contracting the virus from infected people.

i also think that if one washes, [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord133][CodeWord133][/url], and poors alcohol on one's penis after sex it reduces the risk of contracting an std. but this is not proven. just my own personal experience.

even with the statisticly minimal infection rates, i can't see how anyone could rawdag a prostitute in bkk.

[quote=dirkdingy]a class i took once stated that a man has a 1 in 214 chance of contracting hiv from an hiv positive female from heterosexual unprotected sex while a woman has a 1 in 14 chance of contracting the virus from unprotected sex with an hiv positive man.

however, the presensce of other stds increases the risk of contracting the virus from infected people.

i also think that if one washes, [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord133][CodeWord133][/url], and poors alcohol on one's penis after sex it reduces the risk of contracting an std. but this is not proven. just my own personal experience. even with the statisticly minimal infection rates, i can't see how anyone could rawdag a prostitute in bkk.[/quote]
while i don't take issue with those numbers, they are a statistical oversimplification. the 1 in 214 estimate includes participants who have lesions or other breaks in the skin, where the odds are quite a bit higher, and participants who have no lesions or other breaks in the skin, where the odds are quite a bit lower. the implication of this is, if one takes care to never engage in unsafe activities when one's skin on the business end is in imperfect condition, one can insure that they are in the range of well under 1 in 1000 even if their partner happens to be hiv positive. to this, add the fact that the likelihood that one's p4p partner is hiv positive is probably around 2%, the likelihood of a healthy male who takes care to monitor their skin being intact, in that situation, the likelihood of a healthy male actually contracting hiv is now under 1 per 50k unprotected encounters. and aids is no longer an untreatable disease. i understand the math. i believe that i am much more likely to be killed in an automobile accident, or from cancer, or from a heart attack. and none of those things is as enjoyable as unprotected sex.

statistically speaking, i am quite confident that the riskiest behavior that i ever engage in while in bangkok, is walking across sukhumvit road, followed by when i get into a taxi. were i to be reckless enough to use a motorcycle taxi, that would move right to the top of the list.

HIV is just one of the potential dangers. I would be more concerned about Hep B (presume you are vaccinated or you really are pissing into the wind), Hep C, Syphillis etc. Have you been tested for Chlamydia recently as many girls carry this nasty without symptoms and the same goes for men. Then there is HPV and Herpes which even wearing a condom will not protect you from, although they do help.

Your comment about stepping into the Sukhumvit traffic (possibly blindfold) is an appropriate metaphor for your actions. They are decidedly risky. Most people seek the safety of the overhead walkways.

[QUOTE=Gamahucher]HIV is just one of the potential dangers. I would be more concerned about Hep B (presume you are vaccinated or you really are pissing into the wind), Hep C, Syphillis etc. Have you been tested for Chlamydia recently as many girls carry this nasty without symptoms and the same goes for men. Then there is HPV and Herpes which even wearing a condom will not protect you from, although they do help.

Your comment about stepping into the Sukhumvit traffic (possibly blindfold) is an appropriate metaphor for your actions. They are decidedly risky. Most people seek the safety of the overhead walkways.[/QUOTE]
Yes, I get tested comprehensively every few months if I've been adventuring. Chlamydia is the only bug I've ever picked up, and a couple of Cipro knocked it out with no fanfare. And I am vaccinated for Hep B. Frankly, I have a bad knee from my football days, which gives me problems on steep stairways and the overhead walkways over Sukhumvit are an issue for me or I would use them. And a simple quick observation would confirm that MOST people don't use them. Most cross at the traffic light on Soi 3/4.

In any case, I am not really interested in having a debate here. I merely wanted to inject some factual discussion about a subject which is normally treated with stigma and panicked histrionics, even on a forum such as this. I am well aware of the risk vs reward decisions I personally make, just as a race car driver, or skydiver or anyone frankly should be. I am also quite sure that I am by no means unique in the hobbying population - I just may be more self-aware than many. The fact is, proper use of condoms would likely improve my odds by roughly 1.5 orders of magnitude compared to not using them. I am certain that they reduce my personal enjoyment of the experience by 2 orders of magnitude. And the fact is, I use them probably 65-75% of the time - but certainly nowhere near religiously. And I don't enjoy it all that much when I do use them which is why I frequently DON'T use them. I tend to go au naturale with a handful of regulars that I meet in whatever venue I am at - but I'm under no illusions about them being any safer than all but the skankiest random first time encounters.

In a good year, I might actually go bare in P4P a few dozen times. Given the orders of magnitude of the risk factors that are in play, I am well aware that it is an incremental risk that I am incurring. On an annual basis, the odds of me getting a really serious and incurable bug are lower than my risk of suffering a heart attack or a fatal car crash or a cancer diagnosis. The odds of getting a minor and/or fully treatable bug are well within the acceptable range for me relative to the consequences. I reduce my odds elsewhere - for example, I never drink heavily and never smoke. Many hobbyists excessive drinking or smoking adds FAR more risk to them than my ~25-40 bareback encounters a year with perhaps 5-10 different women adds to my risk profile.

I guess its an attitude to risk, and I don't see Bangkok any more risky than London, indded I have nver picked up a STD in Bangkok or indded other countries but I have caught clamydia in the UK and I think that was from a BBBJ as I do not do full sex unprotected. As I tend to punt once every couple of weeks in UK but a couple of times a day in Bangkok and given I am in Bangkok more than 14 days a year this evens out. I don't do unprotected sex more from the fear that the girl will 'accidently' get pregnent and start claiming child support off me, the UK is funny like that, I know this is unlikely in punterland but is a risk with casual sex and I have kept the habit. Has anyone here had any experience of their Thai 'girlfriends' getting pregnent to snare a Farang. My brother in Manchester once had a call from a girl in Bangkok who knew there boyfriend lived in Manchester and had the same surname as me. She then went through the telephone directory calling every one with my surname and looking for him to tell him she was pregent wih his child. Embarassingly he also had the same first name as me, so I had a difficult conversation with my brother who know I travel to Bangkok a bit.

As for crossing Sukhumvit, I have never felt any risk, compared to London streets with London Taxis and courier bikes its not really any different. If anything (and this is the same in China and Taiwan) its safer as the local expect you to step out in front of them. It may look chaotic on the road and it is from a western view point, but it works, indeed I suspect there are less prangs in Bangkok than in London, especially since we have had a migration of Eastern Europeans who tend to drive in the Bangkok style while UK drivers have not yet adapted.

Sorry for the digression, anyway I do not feel there is an increased risk of STD in Bangkok than in London, sure the statistic tell us that HIV is more prevalent but not I supect in the working girls, just the population at large. Indeed I find that thai (and other oriental girls) are much more focussed on cleanliness than Western girls, I have never had a girl in Bangkok with any body or pussy odour (apart from garlic breath) but same can not be said in the UK, and not just at the cheap end of the market.

Yes you appear to be cognizant of the actuarial odds of the risks you are running. Now try to get life insurance using your lifestyle model. GH

[QUOTE=Gamahucher]Yes you appear to be cognizant of the actuarial odds of the risks you are running. Now try to get life insurance using your lifestyle model. GH[/QUOTE]
I don't need Life insurance - I have no dependents. If I did, I have no doubt that it would alter my perspective on this.

[QUOTE=Member #2041]I don't need Life insurance - I have no dependents. If I did, I have no doubt that it would alter my perspective on this.[/QUOTE]Unless I'm mistaken, I seem to remember you calling me on the phone when I was in Costa Rica. You sounded like a smart guy, and you didn't sound old enough that one day you won't have dependents.

I don't get into the safe-sex debates anymore on ISG. Waste of time. The sex-disease facts are still the same (with HIV still on the increase). It's either preach to the converted, or be happy to let fools take the chance to fuck up their own lives and those of their sex partners.

[QUOTE=Piper1]Unless I'm mistaken, I seem to remember you calling me on the phone when I was in Costa Rica. You sounded like a smart guy, and you didn't sound old enough that one day you won't have dependents.

I don't get into the safe-sex debates anymore on ISG. Waste of time. The sex-disease facts are still the same (with HIV still on the increase). But it's either preach to the converted, or be happy to let fools take the chance to fuck up their own lives and those of their sex partners.[/QUOTE]
You're mistaken. I'm in my late 40s, and I haven't phoned anyone in Costa Rica, nor been there myself, in around 4 years.

For me, the bottom line is this. Life is MUCH more worth living as I am 15 months from my 50th birthday, if I am still able to enjoy having sex - and condoms largely prevent me from doing that. What is life about, and why do we care to be alive? That's a question each person has to answer for themselves.

Giving up nearly all of the enjoyment of having sex, for perhaps a couple percentage points of added life expectancy is simply not a reasonable tradeoff for me. I'd rather live to be 65 and enjoy my life to the fullest, than live to be 75 and effectively give up the enjoyment of sex for the final 26 years of it. And the likelihood is, the increased risk to me is actually far less than that.

[QUOTE=Member #2041]You're mistaken. I'm in my late 40s, and I haven't phoned anyone in Costa Rica, nor been there myself, in around 4 years.[/QUOTE]Fair enough - I was there 2-3 years ago when I got the phone call from a Member # xxx.

Still, I stand by the rest of my post. Good luck.

[QUOTE=Member #2041] And AIDS is no longer an untreatable disease. [/QUOTE]

True...but the treatment could kill you...or make you so sick that you would wish to die.

[QUOTE=Piper1]...preach to the converted...[/QUOTE]

Ha ha, good one! Preaching to the 'sero-converted' might be a waste of time.

But certainly you are correct that it is silly to try to preach to any thoughtful and independent minded person, which must include we punters almost by definition. Preaching is an activity well devised to control the dimwitted majority, who accept society's strictures without question.. we mongers do not, or we wouldn't be so flagrantly flouting sexual convention. However I do think it is worthwhile and enjoyable to debate public policy on this issue:

One interesting fact - and one which militates for the provision of free treatments in nations too savage and benighted to do so (such as my own sad land, the USA) - persons on said treatments are basically non-contagious regardless of sexual behaviour. This fact is of course ignored because 1) there remains some infinitismal risk, and 2) the real point is to prevent such behaviours, and not for epidemiological reasons.

Personally I find it the height of irony that the best strategy our puritan rulers can come up with for preventing the 'spread' of the hiv is to insist upon the use of an instrument which removes all enjoyment from the sex act. But, of course, as we all know, the real goal is not the prevention of the hiv, but rather control of the sex act.

[QUOTE=Opebo]One interesting fact - and one which militates for the provision of free treatments in nations too savage and benighted to do so (such as my own sad land, the USA) - [b]persons on said treatments are basically non-contagious regardless of sexual behaviour[/b]. This fact is of course ignored because 1) there remains some infinitismal risk, and 2) the real point is to prevent such behaviours, and not for epidemiological reasons.[/QUOTE]

Can you please elaborate on this statement?

[QUOTE=Daddy San]Can you please elaborate on this statement?[/QUOTE]

[url=http://www.eurosurveillance.org/ViewArticle.aspx?ArticleId=8035]Just something I read[/url] - who knows if it is true, or what might be true. But it seems reasonable.

Yes, it does seem reasonable.
But also very scary, if you immagine, that it is each HIV-positive individual's own decission if he/she fulfills the conditions mentioned in the article, required to go BB safely.
But then many of those go BB, knowing full well they do not meet those conditions or could not care less.
See you at Tulip's!

[QUOTE=Opebo]...But, of course, as we all know, the real goal is not the prevention of the hiv, but rather control of the sex act.[/QUOTE]Well, I for one didn't know that. Could you please elaborate on this statement?

[QUOTE=Piper1]Well, I for one didn't know that. Could you please elaborate on this statement?[/QUOTE]

I think I'm on rather firm ground here, Piper. Historically the powerful have always taken a somewhat surprising interest in the intimate sexual behaviour of commoners, making taboos and mores the purview of enormous religious establishments. Great efforts have long been made to force human sexual behaviour into very narrow and not particularly comfortable confines - for example monogamy or prohibition of prostitution. Why has this always been so? That discussion might be a bit too involved for this forum, but suffice it to say that the privileged only ever do anything (or rather order anything done) to keep or accentuate their power. I find it hard to believe they really care if one serf shaggs another serf, but if telling said serfs said shagging is 'bad' or shameful helps their project of absolute world domination, then it will certainly be done.

Interest in the epidemiological well being of the masses is a comparatively recent innovation, and like all such 'democratic' innovations, a bit of a ruse. A clever ruse, of course, and one which appeals to that most universal weakness - hubris - but a ruse nonetheless: 'I matter', for example, or 'My life can be better through Reason'.

I think it behooves us to be a bit more skeptical about the motivations behind the actions of the rulers and their agents. While understanding on the part of the powerless (that's you and I, Piper) makes, really, no difference politically, there is, on an 'individual' level, a sardonic delight to be had in understanding with clarity rather than being perpetually befuddled.

[QUOTE=Opebo] That discussion might be a bit too involved for this forum, but suffice it to say that the privileged only ever do anything (or rather order anything done) to keep or accentuate their power. I find it hard to believe they really care if one serf shaggs another serf, but if telling said serfs said shagging is 'bad' or shameful helps their project of absolute world domination, then it will certainly be done.
[/QUOTE]

No, please, Opebo, it's not too involved. We want to hear more!

[QUOTE=Tiny 12]No, please, Opebo, it's not too involved. We want to hear more![/QUOTE]I'd be interested in hearing more also. I never thought of Opebo as a right-wing conspiracy-theorist redneck. I'm surprised. Seriously.

Right wing???? This stuff is way to the left of the Communist Manifesto.

[QUOTE=Opebo]... Interest in the epidemiological well being of the masses is a comparatively recent innovation, and like all such 'democratic' innovations, a bit of a ruse. A clever ruse, of course, and one which appeals to that most universal weakness - hubris - but a ruse nonetheless: 'I matter', for example, or 'My life can be better through Reason'.[/QUOTE]Despite your pseudo-intellectual language (which has obviously fooled and excited Mr Tiny), I understand what you are trying to bullshit. However, I prefer make my points in language that most people can actually understand. I don't need to hide weak arguments behind pseudo-intellectual babble.

So, to reply to your statement above: Yes, of course I'm more concerned with the health and well-being of the masses than my own short-term pleasure (unlike you). This is why (unlike you) I make an effort to not spread spread sexual diseases. Surely this doesn't make me arrogant, Mr Hubris.

PS - I'm still surprised at your redneck paranoia. Could you elaborate on the causes of your paranoia? (Hint: rednecks are scared aggressive victim-mentality people).

[QUOTE=Piper1](which has obviously... excited Mr Tiny),[/QUOTE]

When Mr. Tiny is excited, he's no longer Mr. Tiny. He's Mr. Somewhat-Larger-Than-Tiny-But-Still-Smaller-than-Your-Average-Member. And I still don't understand where you get off calling this right wing or redneck. This is exactly the sort of thing my comrades in the Revolutionary Communist Youth Brigade used to say, before I converted to Thatcherism.

I agree with much of your post. Any monger who's HIV positive and running around having bareback sex is a complete ass, regardless of whether he's being treated. The State should cut off his penis. Or at a minimum put a brand across his forehead so the rest of the world will know. And that's straight from the keyboard of a true right-wing redneck.

Opebo ought to hit the road once in a while. I'm sure that any reports he produced would be crazy, neurotic, paranoiac and make extremely funny and interesting reading. He might even give That Asshole a run for his money in an area of specialized, low cost, field reporting that that member does in such unique and inimitable fashion.

[QUOTE=Gamahucher]Opebo ought to hit the road once in a while. I'm sure that any reports he produced would be crazy, neurotic, paranoiac and make extremely funny and interesting reading. He might even give That Asshole a run for his money in an area of specialized, low cost, field reporting that that member does in such unique and inimitable fashion.[/QUOTE]

Oh, it saddens me to hear that my oeuvre has gone unnoticed. No doubt it is my own fault, as it is buried in the distant past under an avalanche of my worthless recent posts (like this one). By the way thank you so much for the comparison with That Asshole, who is in my opinion the heart and soul of ISG.

Please, Gamahucher, look back at my travelogues in the 'Thailand - Other Areas' thread, and you will find a wealth of information about very low end mongering. I suppose most were in the 2005-2007 period - lately I have just become too discouraged to keep poking around.

[QUOTE=Piper1]So, to reply to your statement above: Yes, of course I'm more concerned with the health and well-being of the masses than my own short-term pleasure (unlike you). This is why (unlike you) I make an effort to not spread spread sexual diseases. Surely this doesn't make me arrogant, Mr Hubris.[/quote]

But the unimportance of your concern was precisely my point, brother. You may think your being a 'good' or a 'bad' boy matters, but it doesn't, in neither epidemiological or political terms. I see your point however about hubris - my claim that I am nothing - while seemingly humble - implies that I believe that I [b]know[/b] I am nothing, which most certainly could be seen as a prideful claim; a claim of special intellectual ability or insight. For this I do apologize.

[QUOTE=Piper1]PS - I'm still surprised at your redneck paranoia. Could you elaborate on the causes of your paranoia? (Hint: rednecks are scared aggressive victim-mentality people).[/QUOTE]

Paranoia? I don't see anything of what is occurring as a secret or a plot, Piper. Its all right out in the open, and not only is oppression the very structure and form of our society, it is the form of our thinking, our identities, and our 'personalities'. I definitely expect and perhaps deserve some ridicule for being such a slavish devotee of Foucault, but the pejorative 'redneck' is one I've never heard so applied (Foucault was not the sort of fellow any redneck would have liked).

Sex is by nature a very private and personal matter. One would think that it would fall outside of the public scrutiny and escape any attempt at regulation, be it legal or moral. But it is clearly not so. Every society has a nasty habit of trying to regulate what its citizen do when the lights are out.

What strikes me in the HIV/AIDS matter has to be that the phenomenon was once limited to the original risk groups (gays and IV drug users), and does not seem to have gone much beyond these groups in 20 years. Governments and the public at large started mobilizing against HIV only when it was made a general public issue, by claiming that EVERYONE is at risk, i.e. white heterosexuals in fact (read: taxpayers), something that epidemiological evidence seems to be at pain to substantiate.

One has to be puzzled at that; if HIV was so dangerous, doubters have to point out, we would see millions of deaths in our streets and our hospitals. Despite all “safe sex” campaigns, the use of condoms remains minimal, as evidenced by the continued prevalence of “traditional” STDs that should have gone as a result of massive prophylactic efforts.

Let’s face it, even after a quarter century of awareness campaigns, in LOS at least, condomless sex is the norm. Condom use is largely at the discretion of each individual. In the p4p arena, it is just the same. Customers have the choice, either of using condom or not, or at least of selecting a lady (or an establishment) that does not insist on condom use. It is often not even necessary to suggest a tip for condomless intercourse. I strongly suspect that a considerable proportion of all p4p sexual encounters in LOS are condomless affairs. The Farang sex scene is probably slightly more safe sex minded than the general (Asian) scene, but not by much.

If true (and why shouldn’t it be true, as it is so plausible), we should see a dramatic increase in HIV infection rates and the associated loss of life and doomsday consequences. But there seems to be very little sign of that happening right now. So go figure….

Thanks for all the replies, guys. The results come back on Saturday and we both have decided to wait until then. I've never been so scared of anything in my life; I keep rehearsing conversations that I hopefully will never have to have in my head: my employer, my family, my friends....I live and work in Bangkok so I will immediately have to go back home to America and find medical insurance somehow.

What worries me most is that both of her tests came back inconclusive. I mean, that's TWO tests that came back the same way, a week apart. And the phrase "seropositive...." was written on both of them as well.

If by the grace of God I am negative, then I will never have condomless sex again. Hell, I probably won't even have sex again unless it's with a serious girlfriend or wife.

[QUOTE=Opebo]Oh, it saddens me to hear that my oeuvre has gone unnoticed. No doubt it is my own fault, as it is buried in the distant past under an avalanche of my worthless recent posts (like this one). By the way thank you so much for the comparison with That Asshole, who is in my opinion the heart and soul of ISG.

Please, Gamahucher, look back at my travelogues in the 'Thailand - Other Areas' thread, and you will find a wealth of information about very low end mongering. I suppose most were in the 2005-2007 period - lately I have just become too discouraged to keep poking around.

[/QUOTE]

No problem, Opebo. I feel that your style of writing and obvious sincerity (although I neither agree with or condone your unsafe sex practices) would make for most interesting reading, so I shall probably dig out some of your old reports. Shame you couldn't post links for the more entertaining stuff.

Old That Asshole is not everyones 'cup of tea' but I find him immensely entertaining. As he posts occasional reports only, I often wonder if that handle is his alter ego and he has another handle for regular posts.

BTW - does not the anguish experienced by Mangofan make you pause to take stock?

[QUOTE=Mangofan]

If by the grace of God I am negative, then I will never have condomless sex again. Hell, I probably won't even have sex again unless it's with a serious girlfriend or wife.[/QUOTE]

I really feel for you mate, and hope that everything comes back 'all clear' on Saturday.

[QUOTE=Gamahucher]Shame you couldn't post links for the more entertaining stuff.[/quote]

[url]http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?p=652605#post652605[/url]
[url]http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?p=639103#post639103[/url]
[url]http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?p=607369#post607369[/url]
[url]http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?p=620168#post620168[/url]
[url]http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?p=592906#post592906[/url]
[url]http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?p=590712#post590712[/url]

[QUOTE=Gamahucher]...post links for the more entertaining stuff.[/QUOTE]

A few more a bit older.. this first one is my favorite I think:

[url]http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?p=564042#post564042[/url]

[url]http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?p=575346#post575346[/url]
[url]http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?p=572625#post572625[/url]
[url]http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?p=567724#post567724[/url]

For these older ones I didn't know how to find the actual post link, but if you scroll down there are some reports about South Thailand and various Isaan towns, particularly Southern Isaan along the train line.

[url]http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?t=1034&page=21&pp=15[/url]
[url]http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?t=1034&page=21&pp=15[/url]
[url]http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?t=1034&page=22&pp=15[/url]
[url]http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?t=1034&page=23&pp=15[/url]

[QUOTE=Tiny 12]
I agree with much of your post. Any monger who's HIV positive and running around having bareback sex is a complete ass, regardless of whether he's being treated. The State should cut off his penis. Or at a minimum put a brand across his forehead so the rest of the world will know. And that's straight from the keyboard of a true right-wing redneck.[/QUOTE]

I'm pretty sure it is actually illegal in a lot of countries including UK and US and you would do a serious jail term if you got someone infected while knowingly being HIV+ !! Not sure about the cutting the penis off thing though!! More effective than a lot of other panalties I suppose.

JohntheScot

Thanks Opebo - they made interesting reading - particularly as I will be swanning through South Thailand myself in a couple of weeks and apart from the obvious scenes in Hat Yai and Hua Hin, I was wondering what else was available, particularly in Nakhon, Surat and Ranong?

You are right - this type of reporting is the bedrock of ISG and more important than all the waffle. But many are uncomfortable with the 'get down and get dirty' seedy underbelly of SE Asian p4p. But like it or hate it, guys want to read about it and some of the more adventurous souls may want to experience it. GH

[QUOTE=Mangofan]Thanks for all the replies, guys. The results come back on Saturday and we both have decided to wait until then. I've never been so scared of anything in my life; I keep rehearsing conversations that I hopefully will never have to have in my head: my employer, my family, my friends....I live and work in Bangkok so I will immediately have to go back home to America and find medical insurance somehow.

What worries me most is that both of her tests came back inconclusive. I mean, that's TWO tests that came back the same way, a week apart. And the phrase "seropositive...." was written on both of them as well.

If by the grace of God I am negative, then I will never have condomless sex again. Hell, I probably won't even have sex again unless it's with a serious girlfriend or wife.[/QUOTE]

....just as a matter of support....there are studies of male and female partners of HIV positive persons and the transmission rate is not great at all. It seems that the vigorous brushing of teeth/flossing and resulting blood flow in the mouth are a greater transmission viaduct. If a condom is the only issue here, you are probably fine. Good luck to both of you.

Two years ago I met a researcher for WHO who was heading up research in Thailand for HIV and furthermore I have a Doctor friend who is the medical director for the Clinton Foundation HIV program. Both of them independently told me the following about HIV in Thailand:

1. The main HIV problem is still mainly amongst gays and intravenous drug users.
2. Northern Thailand (Chang Mai area) has a higher prevalence of HIV than anywhere else in Thailand.
3. HIV rate amongst prostitutes servicing the Thai local market is in the region of 5% to 6%
4. HIV rate amongst prostitutes servicing the Farang market is around 2% to 3%

I always practice safe sex as I am just too paranoid not too. HIV is not the death sentence it once was and if you follow the retroviral drug program as prescribed then you should live a normal life for 20+ years as people such as Magic Johnson have shown.

Despite the above I reckon you are insane to not practice safe sex although the majority of guys I know who are long term residents do not use condoms. Ask yourself this question: have you ever actually met anyone with HIV? I have not and I am 38 so it may not be as prevalent as we fear.

[QUOTE=Bowerboy] Ask yourself this question: have you ever actually met anyone with HIV? I have not and I am 38 so it may not be as prevalent as we fear.[/QUOTE]Interesting argument. You say that because you haven't met anyone with HIV (well, they didn't brag about it), this means HIV is not as prevalent as we fear. (?!)

Just to balance the argument - I know two guys with HIV from unprotected hooker sex. So that must mean HIV is more prevalent than we fear, no? :rolleyes:

PS - one of the guys is still alive.

[QUOTE=Bowerboy] Ask yourself this question: have you ever actually met anyone with HIV? I have not and I am 38 so it may not be as prevalent as we fear.[/QUOTE]
Sorry this is flawed logic, how would you know if they are or not? It's not like they have a sign on their forehead that reads HIV +. The likelihood is that we have all met people who are HIV positive at some point in our lives, they are just unknown to us.

[QUOTE=Bowerboy]Ask yourself this question: have you ever actually met anyone with HIV? I have not and I am 38 so it may not be as prevalent as we fear.[/QUOTE]
Using your numbers, if you've met 50 Thai hookers then you've probably met one with HIV. I agree with Piper and Run Man, many people who are HIV positive don't advertise it.

[QUOTE=Bowerboy]1. The main HIV problem is still mainly amongst gays and intravenous drug users.[/QUOTE]
From what I've read, prostitutes and their customers in northern Thailand are what put Thailand on the verge of an AIDS epidemic some years back-- I don't believe it's confined to gays and intravenous drug users.

[QUOTE=Mangofan]Thanks for all the replies, guys. The results come back on Saturday and we both have decided to wait until then. I've never been so scared of anything in my life; I keep rehearsing conversations that I hopefully will never have to have in my head: my employer, my family, my friends....I live and work in Bangkok so I will immediately have to go back home to America and find medical insurance somehow.

What worries me most is that both of her tests came back inconclusive. I mean, that's TWO tests that came back the same way, a week apart. And the phrase "seropositive...." was written on both of them as well.

If by the grace of God I am negative, then I will never have condomless sex again. Hell, I probably won't even have sex again unless it's with a serious girlfriend or wife.[/QUOTE]Good luck with that (I'm assuming you're not a troll). I have to be honest: from what you write, it's not looking good (two inconclusive tests). Let's hope inconclusive just means inconclusive. And your glimpse of the word "seropositive" on the results doesn't bode well. If it were me, I would have asked a few questions at that point. The test results can be inconclusive if you are on various medications such as antibiotics.

Again, good luck.

Despite the light-hearted debates with the selfish in-denial barebackers on this site, I'm serious that I wouldn't want to put those who care about me through this trauma.

The ultimate study on HIV serodiscordant hetero couples was done by Nancy Padian, et al, chief epidemiologist of UCSFC.

The Padian study which was conducted for over a decade showed that it took an average of 1000 acts of intercourse between a seropositive male and a seronegative female for her to statistically seroconvert. The seroconversion rates from a seropositive female to seronegative male where he seroconverts from sex with his seropositive female partner were even lower.

Your chances of HIV seroconverting from sex is almost non-existent, and there was lots of discussion on Magic Johnson frequenting homosexual bars which the news reporters were starting to snoop around till he retired the 2nd time.

If you are worried, I suggest you wear a full face helmet when you drive as you're far likelier to be killed in an auto accident that HIV seroconverting from having sex with bargirls, and a full face helmet is far likelier to protect your health than a condom is.

[QUOTE=Sopwith]
Your chances of HIV seroconverting from sex is almost non-existent[/QUOTE]

This is Thailand Sopwith, it ain't Kansas. The estimated seroconversion rate among customers of hookers for one study in northern Thailand was 5.6%. And that's for female-to-male transmission. Read the introduction to this to get an idea of results from various studies:

[url]http://www.cirp.org/library/disease/HIV/gray2/[/url]

I'll admit the chances that you or I will get AIDS from a single act of intercourse with an HIV positive prostitute in Thailand are a lot less than 1 in 20. But your statement above is only true if you wear condoms properly. Or maybe if you only fuck a few women, are circumsized, and don't have an untreated STD or ulcerated penis (and I'd argue over 10% of the farang mongers in Thailand do have an untreated STD and don't know it).

[QUOTE=Lover Boy #2]It seems that the vigorous brushing of teeth/flossing and resulting blood flow in the mouth are a greater transmission viaduct. If a condom is the only issue here, you are probably fine. Good luck to both of you.[/QUOTE]

Last time I looked into the issue of HIV transmission by kissing, maybe 3 years ago, it was considered an extremely low risk activity. I suggest that the deeper the smooching, the more dangerous it is, especially with tongues and a lot of saliva.

But of much more concern to me would be performing DATY, BBFS, or the condom breaking or cuming off inside a TG. So I make efforts to try to avoid these things, and even the low risk BBBJ.

Those who think a condom lessens the pleasure of a BJ or FS are just ignorant as to techniques that make it as good or better than going BB. Not to mention the psychological effects of worrying about getting or giving a present during the act.

Condoms. To Serve and Protect.

Negative. Both of us. This week has been a complete mindfuck thinking I was positive. But luckily both of our tests were negative. This has scared me enough that I've decided to take a break from mongering....permanently. It's been a great couple of years, but just not worth it taking the kinds of risks that come from this lifestyle. Thanks again for your comments, everyone.

[QUOTE=PinkPearl]Those who think a condom lessens the pleasure of a BJ or FS are just ignorant as to techniques that make it as good or better than going BB. Not to mention the psychological effects of worrying about getting or giving a present during the act.

Condoms. To Serve and Protect.[/QUOTE]
I believe condom use with providers is a must, but you are kidding yourself if you think the sensation of CFS & BBFS is nearly the same. They are worlds apart.

[QUOTE=Mangofan]Negative. Both of us. This week has been a complete mindfuck thinking I was positive. But luckily both of our tests were negative. This has scared me enough that I've decided to take a break from mongering....permanently. It's been a great couple of years, but just not worth it taking the kinds of risks that come from this lifestyle. Thanks again for your comments, everyone.[/QUOTE]That's great news. It was just a scare, and you'll get over it. You will be fucking hot girls again soon (one of life's great pleasures that cannot be resisted). Just dont skank yourself again, and you can do it happily ever after.

[QUOTE=Mangofan]Negative. Both of us. This week has been a complete mindfuck thinking I was positive. But luckily both of our tests were negative. This has scared me enough that I've decided to take a break from mongering....permanently. It's been a great couple of years, but just not worth it taking the kinds of risks that come from this lifestyle. Thanks again for your comments, everyone.[/QUOTE]

Great news!!!!!!!!!!!!...did the medical experts ever explain why she was having the false positives? Was she taking meds?

[QUOTE=Vito Corleone]I believe condom use with providers is a must, but you are kidding yourself if you think the sensation of CFS & BBFS is nearly the same. They are worlds apart.[/QUOTE]I disagree. For example, to illustrate by a similar example, if you've ever recieved a balls massage from a lady's hand wearing a latex medical glove, it feels the same as without the glove.

Tip #1. Try putting a few drops of lube on the inside head of the condom.

Tip #2. The condom adds width which can make it tighter inside the lady, and consequently actually improve the sensation.

Tip #3. Getting a genital massage, whether from her tongue mouth or hands, for an hour before condom intercourse, will result in the feeling being just as good or better than w/o a condom.

But I suppose #3 illustrates a key problem with most of you wankers, that you cannot last more than 5 minutes, and would have already cum before the sex began.

[QUOTE=PinkPearl]

Tip #2. The condom adds width which can make it tighter inside the lady, and consequently actually improve the sensation.
[/QUOTE]

Disagree on #2.....the condom is actually tighter than your dick....making it thinner.....unless you have a tiny dick and can use 0.02 and 0.05 millimetres?

[QUOTE=PinkPearl]For example, to illustrate by a similar example, if you've ever recieved a balls massage from a lady's hand wearing a latex medical glove, it feels the same as without the glove.[/QUOTE]Also sometimes I find that the condom slips off inside the woman during genital intercourse and I do not realize it till I check later, yet the feeling does not improve without the condom.

In addition to the latex glove example above, this is another proof that the feeling with the condom on can be just as good as going bareback.

[QUOTE=Lover Boy #2]Disagree on #2.....the condom is actually tighter than your dick....making it thinner.....unless you have a tiny dick and can use 0.02 and 0.05 millimetres?[/QUOTE]I see your point. Though I suppose as the penis expands during intercourse it may actually stretch the condom. Of course this probably doesn't apply to those who last only 2 minutes. Lube inside the condom, BTW, may be an additional width factor to the condom itself.

I didn't pick up Herpes on my last visit (most likely in Pattaya or BKK).. but seemed to have picked up a strain of HPV which has manifested in small warts around the pubic area. (About 2 months later) And for the record I do use condo's.. though obviously they don't cover the whole area.

Some tips: do no shave or irritate the area which spreads it.

One doc put me onto Aldara, which is expensive ($100 a pop) and did nothing.. don't recommend. I'm now trying out Condyline which is apparently quite effective, though more abrasive.


[QUOTE=Brasco]Well, you must be aware that bargirls in Pattaya for example, have every night sex with at least one guy, thats the way how they make money on living, so there is pretty big possibility you can catch something from oral sex, or something even worse if the condom breaks.[/QUOTE]

I just discovered this thread, which is fascinating. I see that a few of the most knowledgeable posters have not been "active" here for several months, but I nevertheless hope a few people with specialized knowledge can help with some answers.

There seems to be tremendous confusion. I called 3-4 hotlines, including the gay HIV hotline and the counselors in all of them knew very little. Within 5 minutes, I saw they had no idea. The guy at the gay hotline said it was equally dangerous to be the "top" or the "bottom" of a gay sex couple or to have vaginal or anal sex, but could cite no sources. They definitely want to scare you but seem to have very little knowledge, which of course does not mean that we should not be scared, but I would like to know the facts as much as it is possible.

It seems that a heterosexual man who sero-converts positive is likely to first catch something else and then HIV. it could actually be in the same sex act--you could catch chlamydia, for example, and the irritation int he urethra could then give HIV an opening.

It seems very strange that so few famous people have caught HIV. Charlie Sheen, Wilt Chamberlain, etc... the list of heterosexual males with HIV is rather short. In the porn world, there have only been a few "outbreaks" and none since Darren James. Some say that it is not a coincidence that James caught HIV in another country--that HIV in the USA is harder to spread heterosexually than HIV (or a certain sub-strain of it) in certain other countries, such as Thailand. But remember----please do not fight---I just want comments that can help me understand the actual situation, preferably with some sort of citation to the medical literature (I am not a doctor but I can read).

Here are my questions/comments. I do not want to start any fighting---I am strictly looking for useful information----primarily from people with medical/biological training.

1. It seems the PCR test for HIV is generally accurate 12 days after potential exposure and maybe as soon as 72 hours. I see that someone has gotten that test for $160 in California. why is it so hard to find a place to do that test? Admittedly, it would be expensive but many of us would be willing to spend the money for a medium term gfe and maybe even for a 1 night stand. Of course you would have to quarantine her for 12 days or take some chance but it is a lot better than the Eliza test with a 6-12 week window, which makes it virtually useless. Yet the PCR test is not available in mos places and so you cannot use what could be an effecive method of screening partners which would allow you to have sex without a condom without worrying (too much) about HIV. Am I correct?

2. There is Orasure, which allows you to test saliva in 20 minutes. Why is it impossible to get this thing? apparently, the authorities are afraid people will freak out if they get a positive result, which could be a false positive, and might kill themselves. But it would seem that the public interest in giving people some tool to reduce their risk would override this concern. Of course, the 6-12 week window makes this test of limited value, but it would still be of considerable use oin many situations. Yet it is unavailable. Am I correct?

3. There is a much higher risk in Thailand than the Philippines because there is more of a certain type of sub-type of HIV in Thailand. True or false?

4. If you do not know the HIV status of a girl, it does not matter if you sleep with her every night or switch girls because either way if you are not using a condom you could be exposing yourself to HIV. 15 sex acts with 1 girl of unknown status is the same risk as 15 sex acts with 15 girls of unknown risk. True or untrue?

5. Wearing a condom on the end of your penis would reduce HIV risk a real lot because the virus almost always enters the male's body through the urithra. True or false?

I am mostly interested in the first 3 questions. Thank you!

[QUOTE=Cuba Tourist]
3. There is a much higher risk in Thailand than the Philippines because there is more of a certain type of sub-type of HIV in Thailand. True or false?[/QUOTE]

I have read that the sub-type of HIV in certain Asian countries...not only Thailand (but mainly in Thailand) is more transmissable through hetero sex because it seems to permeate the mucosa in a more effective way than the type of HIV found in the West. I am not sure this is true, because of all the world travel going on, it would seem that one type would spread as fast as another.

[QUOTE=PinkPearl]I disagree. For example, to illustrate by a similar example, if you've ever recieved a balls massage from a lady's hand wearing a latex medical glove, it feels the same as without the glove.

Tip #1. Try putting a few drops of lube on the inside head of the condom.

Tip #2. The condom adds width which can make it tighter inside the lady, and consequently actually improve the sensation.

Tip #3. Getting a genital massage, whether from her tongue mouth or hands, for an hour before condom intercourse, will result in the feeling being just as good or better than w/o a condom.

But I suppose #3 illustrates a key problem with most of you wankers, that you cannot last more than 5 minutes, and would have already cum before the sex began.[/QUOTE]
Different strokes for different folks. If that works, then more power to you. Maybe you jerk off too much & lost sensation. The raw feeling of a wet juicy pussy feels way better than any condom trick. To me, BBBJ is feels much better than a cbj, but the feeling of raw intercourse is just off the hook!

[QUOTE=Cuba Tourist]
I just discovered this thread, which is fascinating. I see that a few of the most knowledgeable posters have not been "active" here for several months, but I nevertheless hope a few people with specialized knowledge can help with some answers. There seems to be tremendous confusion. [/QUOTE]

Indeed. Most people who are supposed to inform the general public have not been properly trained to provide useful information. The problem seems to be that there are so many logical loopholes in the HIV/AIDS theory that there can be no sane discussion. Try asking your own GP at home some embarrassing questions about HIV in Africa vs in the Western World, about the non-specific HIV tests etc. You will first get a stern look as if you were a global moron and if you persist you will be treated like a heretic daring to doubt the official gospel.

[QUOTE=Cuba Tourist]
It seems that a heterosexual man who sero-converts positive is likely to first catch something else and then HIV. it could actually be in the same sex act--you could catch chlamydia, for example, and the irritation int he urethra could then give HIV an opening. It seems very strange that so few famous people have caught HIV. Charlie Sheen, Wilt Chamberlain, etc... the list of heterosexual males with HIV is rather short. In the porn world, there have only been a few "outbreaks" and none since Darren James. Some say that it is not a coincidence that James caught HIV in another country--that HIV in the USA is harder to spread heterosexually than HIV (or a certain sub-strain of it) in certain other countries, such as Thailand.
[/QUOTE]

The fact that it is not publicised does not mean that it does not happen anymore. However, there is substantial evidence that there is a high correlation between HIV infection and drug use (or abuse), for which the famous people in the media world are famous for.

[QUOTE=Cuba Tourist]
It seems the PCR test for HIV is generally accurate 12 days after potential exposure and maybe as soon as 72 hours. I see that someone has gotten that test for $160 in California. why is it so hard to find a place to do that test? Admittedly, it would be expensive but many of us would be willing to spend the money for a medium term gfe and maybe even for a 1 night stand. Of course you would have to quarantine her for 12 days or take some chance but it is a lot better than the Eliza test with a 6-12 week window, which makes it virtually useless. Yet the PCR test is not available in mos places and so you cannot use what could be an effecive method of screening partners which would allow you to have sex without a condom without worrying (too much) about HIV. Am I correct?
2. There is Orasure, which allows you to test saliva in 20 minutes. Why is it impossible to get this thing? apparently, the authorities are afraid people will freak out if they get a positive result, which could be a false positive, and might kill themselves. But it would seem that the public interest in giving people some tool to reduce their risk would override this concern. Of course, the 6-12 week window makes this test of limited value, but it would still be of considerable use oin many situations. Yet it is unavailable. Am I correct? [/QUOTE]

There seems to be an overriding problem with every HIV test. Since HIV itself has not been isolated and cultivated properly, it does not seem possible to devise a test that would be specific, i.e. that would react to HIV and only to that. Current tests are tracking the presence of antibodies after a successful immunitary response to HIV infection. Such antibodies are attributed to HIV, but in the absence of isolation of HIV, there is no certainty there. In fact, there is much debate about the Koch postulates, that HIV would not follow.

Koch's postulates are:
The microorganism must be found in abundance in all organisms suffering from the disease, but not in healthy organisms.
The microorganism must be isolated from a diseased organism and grown in pure culture.
The cultured microorganism should cause disease when introduced into a healthy organism.
The microorganism must be reisolated from the inoculated, diseased experimental host and identified as being identical to the original specific causative agent.

The web is full of controversy about this. Asymptomatic carriers are supposedly common feature for several infectious diseases, but in the case of HIV, there seems to be a very high proportion of asymptomatic carriers, i.e. people who are diagnosed as AIDS patients, but that show no sign of HIV infection. And of course, there are huge numbers of healthy carriers, i.e. people who have HIV but are not developing AIDS.

The bottom line is that the HIV tests are questionable, and that being tested positive does nto necessarily mean much. Over the years, some tests have been shown to react to many other things than HIV, such as malaria and a host of other tropical diseases or pregnancy.

[QUOTE=Cuba Tourist]
3. There is a much higher risk in Thailand than the Philippines because there is more of a certain type of sub-type of HIV in Thailand. True or false? [/QUOTE]

As far as I know, there is no foundation for such a belief.

[QUOTE=Cuba Tourist]
4. If you do not know the HIV status of a girl, it does not matter if you sleep with her every night or switch girls because either way if you are not using a condom you could be exposing yourself to HIV. 15 sex acts with 1 girl of unknown status is the same risk as 15 sex acts with 15 girls of unknown risk. True or untrue [/QUOTE]

Statistically, the risk of getting HIV increases with the number of unprotected sex with a HIV carrier. Definitely, 100 times is more dangerous than 1 time. However, statistics do not apply to individual behaviours. It is just like wining the lottery. You might have only 1 chance of winning the jackpot, but nearly every winner had only bought 1 ticket…

More to the point, promiscuous sexual behaviours, especially p4p, are inherently dangerous. One should focus on the seriousness of the consequences of an incident rather than the probability of an incident.

[QUOTE=Cuba Tourist]
5. Wearing a condom on the end of your penis would reduce HIV risk a real lot because the virus almost always enters the male's body through the urithra. True or false [/QUOTE]

This is very debatable. HIV being transmitted by sperm, heterosexual intercourse should be somewhat safer for the male partner than for the female partner, and much safer than homosexual male intercourse.

Frankly, as a male, I can see why unprotected sex is so attractive, to the point of being ready to engage into risky behaviours, because the risk/reward balance is so close, but I cannot see why men find women willing to accommodate that. They are much more at risk than us, and for them there is not even the bonus of better sex experience through the absence of rubber…

The bottom line is that you should surf the web. You will see that the entire HIV/AIDS thing is way more complex and controversial than most people suppose.

I did an HIV test today. Someone here in another country wrote that they knew that a girl that I knew was HIV-positive. I don't know if it's true or not, but the easiest thing was to just get tested. The last time I had the test, I did it privately and it costs about $125 and I had to wait two days to get the results. This time I went to a public facility and they gave me the OraSure test and I had my results -- negative -- in 20 minutes. It was free and there was a counselor there to talk to me after.

He said that he had done about 10,000 tests over many years and not a single heterosexual male tested positive. Then he qualified that by saying that there were some that had gotten blood transfusions or whatever, but that no male heterosexual that he had personally dealt with had tested positive without other risk factors. Of course many bisexual men claims to be heterosexual at the beginning, but apparently all of them admitted that they have had male lovers after a few minutes.

What does this mean? I find it extremely confusing. A lot of the anecdotal evidence suggests that male heterosexuals are very unlikely to come down with HIV. On the other hand, the public health people are yelling that we are at great risk. I think they are exaggerating but that doesn't mean that they are completely wrong. The problem is that we might ignore what they say because they exaggerate, and then find ourselves HIV-positive one day.

The best comment here by Seydlitz was the one where he said that said that we should concentrate on the potential impact rather than the likelihood. Still, the whole thing is very confusing and very frustrating.

[QUOTE=Cuba Tourist]I did an HIV test today. Someone here in another country wrote that they knew that a girl that I knew was HIV-positive. I don't know if it's true or not, but the easiest thing was to just get tested. The last time I had the test, I did it privately and it costs about $125 and I had to wait two days to get the results. This time I went to a public facility and they gave me the OraSure test and I had my results -- negative -- in 20 minutes. It was free and there was a counselor there to talk to me after.[/QUOTE]I recently went to a public hospital with one Thai girl and we both did an HIV rapid test for 300 baht per person (same price for me and for her). Results (both negative) were obtained (approximately) one hour after the samples were taken.

About heterosexual persons having contracted HIV/AIDS, I know a few Thai men and women who did, but I can't say for sure whether or not they have had other risky habits apart from having unprotected sex.

[QUOTE=Cuba Tourist]On the other hand, the public health people are yelling that we are at great risk. I think they are exaggerating but that doesn't mean that they are completely wrong. The problem is that we might ignore what they say because they exaggerate, and then find ourselves HIV-positive one day.[/QUOTE]

Well, it is their business. They are not going to play down anything that helps them enhance their own importance or their ability to secure public funding. As they say, turkeys do not vote for Xmas, and if they could they would also raise issues with rich food, booze and the overall obnoxiousness of being with close relatives during the festive season, not to mention the risk of drunk driving on icy and snowy road conditions etc.

Besides, being tested HIV positive is not necessarily the end of the world. You can always question the validity of the test or claim that there is no such thing as HIV in the first place, as some do, or that HIV does not case AIDS, as others say; or that if it does, it needs something else as a co-factor (as Prof. Duesberg believes). Even if HIV exists and causes AIDS, you may find yourself in the large group of people who are healthy carriers, ie. HIV positive but otherwise healthy, and that for the rest of your life (unless anti-HIV drugs kill you, that is). Even if you develop one of the 26 or so illnesses that, joined with HIV, define AIDS (that is what it is, a syndrome, not a specific disease), you can always be treated for that particular disease, with various chances of success.

No matter how you see things, HIV/AIDS is a gospel. It is necessary to swallow it all, no questions asked, because if you start asking questions, the whole thing begins to fall apart, leading to other questions and spiralling doubts. After so many billions of tax dollars spent on it over 25 years, the least you would expect would be to have a clear, comprehensive and undisputable understanding of what it is what causes it etc.

[QUOTE=Mick Licker]Meanwhile every village has both Thai men and women plentifully dieing of AIDS. It should be well known by now that Thai men (at the risk of being a bit sexist) playing up without condoms that is the chief cause of HIV spread these days.[/QUOTE]

I have to note, MickL, that when I visit the Thai-oriented venues, condom insistence is nearly universal, and it is extremely difficult and rare to be able to talk to girls out of it. By contrast girls who deal with farangs regularly are much less insistent, and often even 'go for it' bareback unasked.

I can also report that all my Thai acquaintances and mongering pals are very stringent about condom use, even to the point of stressing out about the occasional BBBJ afterwards. I've even had them ask me afterwards if they might've gotten hiv because they kissed the girl. Of course I only know middle class Thais, but my impression is that the condom propaganda is very widely accepted in this land nowadays.

As for farangs, I think it is safe to assume that few spend thousands of dollars on a trip to merely prod a plastic appliance. They spend, take time off work, and undergo arduous travel in order to have sex with actual girls.

The contrast here is that the Thais just go for a local P4P act maybe once a month or so, and its no great hardship as there is no travel or time off work expense to deal with. So in that way their expectations are kept very low. Secondly, Thai men are in general radically more potent than we aging farangs, and find it very easy to maintain interest and an erection with one of those vile implements donned.

[QUOTE=Opebo]I have to note, MickL, that when I visit the Thai-oriented venues, condom insistence is nearly universal, and it is extremely difficult and rare to be able to talk to girls out of it. By contrast girls who deal with farangs regularly are much less insistent, and often even 'go for it' bareback unasked.

I can also report that all my Thai acquaintances and mongering pals are very stringent about condom use, even to the point of stressing out about the occasional BBBJ afterwards. I've even had them ask me afterwards if they might've gotten hiv because they kissed the girl. Of course I only know middle class Thais, but my impression is that the condom propaganda is very widely accepted in this land nowadays.

As for farangs, I think it is safe to assume that few spend thousands of dollars on a trip to merely prod a plastic appliance. They spend, take time off work, and undergo arduous travel in order to have sex with actual girls.

The contrast here is that the Thais just go for a local P4P act maybe once a month or so, and its no great hardship as there is no travel or time off work expense to deal with. So in that way their expectations are kept very low. Secondly, Thai men are in general radically more potent than we aging farangs, and find it very easy to maintain interest and an erection with one of those vile implements donned.[/QUOTE]

Why do you feel the girls are going bareback with farangs? (without the farang even requesting it or offering more money) I have garnered the exact opposite information from girls dealing with Thai's....they claim all the guys want to go bareback....and will argue about this for a long time insisting that they are "clean".

[QUOTE=Opebo]I have to note, MickL, that when I visit the Thai-oriented venues, condom insistence is nearly universal, and it is extremely difficult and rare to be able to talk to girls out of it. By contrast girls who deal with farangs regularly are much less insistent, and often even 'go for it' bareback unasked.
[/QUOTE]
Thai men are well known to not like to use condoms when having sex in non-P4P situations, unless all the Thai girls are lying to me. The Thai men may well be forced to use condoms in better class MPs. They probably don't waste their time requesting not to use one when they expect to be denied. Farangs can be devious and use fingernails to break condoms on purpose.

HIV is likely to be prevalent in the very low class illegal Thai venues, where "anything goes". Any guy that is considered to be a probable frequenter of such places will probably be viewed as extra high risk even if they are Farang.

So I'm am sure some girls in a higher class Thai oriented place are viewing yourself to be just as a high risk as the Thai men. Maybe the girls are just obeying the "rules" with guys they don't know well too.

I do find it hard to fathom why girls would risk their lives for a few extra Baht when they don't really need to.

But the better educated the girl, the more likely to insist on condom use, I would think.

Based on law of averages, if a girl keeps doing bareback with many guys, she will get AIDs sooner or later. Its her fate.

If she does it with just a few high class men, she might remain lucky.

Establishments with regular health checks should be greatly preferred by us as less risky than totally uncontrolled places.

[QUOTE=Lover Boy #2]Why do you feel the girls are going bareback with farangs? (without the farang even requesting it or offering more money) I have garnered the exact opposite information from girls dealing with Thai's....they claim all the guys want to go bareback....and will argue about this for a long time insisting that they are "clean".[/QUOTE]

I think so because every farang I know goes bareback, and every girl I've spoken to says that many or most farangs prefer bareback. I've even often overheard farangs asking girls 'no condom ok?'. I've never run across any girls stating that Thai men want bareback, but as I said my information about Thai male preferrences comes more from what my Thai 'friends' and colleagues say. These gentlemen from the middle classes are well indoctrinated in the pusillanimous pro-plastic orthodoxy.

[QUOTE=Mick Licker]Thai men are well known to not like to use condoms when having sex in non-P4P situations[/quote]

Well of course, no one uses condoms in non-P4P situations, do they?

[QUOTE=Mick Licker]HIV is likely to be prevalent in the very low class illegal Thai venues, where "anything goes".[/quote]

No, the small cheap brothels are extremely condom-insistent, Mick. The one exception used to be the few in certain towns that are staffed by non-Thais (illegal immigrants), where maybe 20-30% or so of girls used to be amenable, but now even those are almost 100% condom-insistent.

[QUOTE=Mick Licker]I do find it hard to fathom why girls would risk their lives for a few extra Baht when they don't really need to.[/quote]

They won't have any return/regular customers if they don't do bareback. That is, in the farang industry.

[QUOTE=Mick Licker]Based on law of averages, if a girl keeps doing bareback with many guys, she will get AIDs sooner or later. Its her fate.[/quote]

Oddly enough, not so, Mick. The chance of transmission is so small from ordinary vaginal sex that there are a great many old ladies in their forties who have had bareback P4P sex for decades with no ill effects.

Some of that info I found correct.. other parts not so.

Not every farang (me included) does go bareback.. some guys do happen to have significant others besides hookers in their life.. and do this as a part-time thing or on occasion only. Others might have a nasty or two, and don't feel comfortable blessing the world with it.

It is true I've had many girls where I had to offer to get the rubber out first.. maybe because I look clean (misleading), or like you said they want return customers.

Which leads to the next point.. more often then not, they don't get return customers.. unless you get the 1 in 100 actually living there or doing regular trips. For myself, I might visit twice a year, and even then I generally want to sample new pussy, rather than return to old and tried pussy.. so even if I get 10/10 service, I'll still try something new.. and I suspect a lot of guys are like this as well.

As for the final point about hookers in their 40s being "without ill effects".. it depends what you mean by without ill effects.. HIV true, it's hard to catch, but I highly doubt you would find any of them without herpes, one or more strains of HPV, and other gotchas which don't leave. I didn't even mention Hep C oops. If you're OK with that then good.. or if you have them already so be it. HIV isn't the end all and be all.

And I don't want to put a damper on things, but you won't be meeting or reading about the 40+ year old hookers who did get HIV.. you're only meeting the ones who got through P4P in the last decade.


[QUOTE=Opebo]I think so because every farang I know goes bareback, and every girl I've spoken to says that many or most farangs prefer bareback. I've even often overheard farangs asking girls 'no condom ok?'.
They won't have any return/regular customers if they don't do bareback. That is, in the farang industry.

Oddly enough, not so, Mick. The chance of transmission is so small from ordinary vaginal sex that there are a great many old ladies in their forties who have had bareback P4P sex for decades with no ill effects.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Vito Corleone]Different strokes for different folks. If that works, then more power to you. Maybe you jerk off too much & lost sensation. The raw feeling of a wet juicy pussy feels way better than any condom trick. To me, BBBJ is feels much better than a cbj, but the feeling of raw intercourse is just off the hook![/QUOTE]Lost sensation? LOL! Maybe you should try what I suggested first and see if it works. I guarantee it will. Then another "fuck the condom" advocate will be converted and cease being a menace to society.

For you to say "if that works" suggests it could, so why wouldn't it work for you if you put some work into it? A man is a man and a dick is still a dick. Therefore, please, spare me the different strokes baloney.

I have already provided several proofs that using the condom can feel just as good as without it, if not better. So quit being so selfish & ignorant.

[QUOTE=PinkPearl]Lost sensation? LOL! Maybe you should try what I suggested first and see if it works. I guarantee it will. Then another "fuck the condom" advocate will be converted and cease being a menace to society.

For you to say "if that works" suggests it could, so why wouldn't it work for you if you put some work into it? A man is a man and a dick is still a dick. Therefore, please, spare me the different strokes baloney.

I have already provided several proofs that using the condom can feel just as good as without it, if not better. So quit being so selfish & ignorant.[/QUOTE]Sorry, but you can provide all the "proofs" you want, but with or without extra lube inside the condom, the sensations (in my own case) are better without a condom... it does not mean that I'm advocating uncovered sex (and I won't go bareback with girls whom I don't know for sure their STD/HIV health status), but what you're saying is just untrue (again, at least in my own case).

[QUOTE=Opebo]I think so because every farang I know goes bareback, and every girl I've spoken to says that many or most farangs prefer bareback. I've even often overheard farangs asking girls 'no condom ok?'. I've never run across any girls stating that Thai men want bareback, but as I said my information about Thai male preferrences comes more from what my Thai 'friends' and colleagues say. These gentlemen from the middle classes are well indoctrinated in the pusillanimous pro-plastic orthodoxy.
[/QUOTE]

Nothing negative intended, but it is interesting to see how this works out. I know about 16 farangs very well, have partied with them......and yes, have even had the orgy scene where we are at a guys house and a big sex scene breaks out with both P4P and rarely non-P4P women. Not one guy has gone bareback. Not one has discussed going bareback.....all make sure that there is a good supply of condoms and lubricants available. I have been in my room...and a guy knocks on the door...."got any condoms"? I don't know one guy risking this (hpv, herpes, genital warts, bacteria infections, etc......forget about HIV if you like)....and everyone you know is taking this risk....seems a bit weird.

[QUOTE=Freeman 418]As for the final point about hookers in their 40s being "without ill effects".. it depends what you mean by without ill effects.. HIV true, it's hard to catch, but I highly doubt you would find any of them without herpes, one or more strains of HPV, and other gotchas which don't leave. I didn't even mention Hep C oops. If you're OK with that then good.. or if you have them already so be it. HIV isn't the end all and be all.[/QUOTE]

This is the bottom line IMHO. One working girl friend of friend was telling me that she uses a condom with 95% of her customers.....she was worried about the 5% she was getting so excited with that she was going bareback (or that offered more money, I don't know the real truth). She is a nympho working in a BKK soapy. After she leaves the table, her friend.......looks at me and says; "She already has a promplem.......malang in her pussy". Just what I wanted to hear......no sex for me for at least a week because of thinking about this exchange. She was probably referring to HPV, as it can cause cervical cancer. Girls who are getting exposed daily to the full range of disease, eventually will catch something...if not HIV.....something....and "something" is not good if your penis is deeply entrenched in that disease.

[QUOTE=Opebo]I think so because every farang I know goes bareback, and every girl I've spoken to says that many or most farangs prefer bareback. I've even often overheard farangs asking girls 'no condom ok?'. I've never run across any girls stating that Thai men want bareback, but as I said my information about Thai male preferrences comes more from what my Thai 'friends' and colleagues say. These gentlemen from the middle classes are well indoctrinated in the pusillanimous pro-plastic orthodoxy.

Well of course, no one uses condoms in non-P4P situations, do they?

They won't have any return/regular customers if they don't do bareback. That is, in the farang industry.
[/QUOTE]

Well some of Opebos comments were laughable, perhaps not all. I will admit to not being a total expert on low class places as I don't go there. I also never request bareback penetration.

Of course plenty of people are using condoms in non P4P casual sex these days. But this is obviously one of the primary situations for aids spread when they don't.

But how is that the lower class Thais get HIV (more frequently) and spread it to their wives. Obviously they were not forced to wear a condom when they were playing up. Did they get all this extra sex for free? Unlikely.

[QUOTE=PinkPearl]Lost sensation? LOL! Maybe you should try what I suggested first and see if it works. I guarantee it will. Then another "fuck the condom" advocate will be converted and cease being a menace to society.

For you to say "if that works" suggests it could, so why wouldn't it work for you if you put some work into it? A man is a man and a dick is still a dick. Therefore, please, spare me the different strokes baloney.

I have already provided several proofs that using the condom can feel just as good as without it, if not better. So quit being so selfish & ignorant.[/QUOTE]

I don't give a rats ass if it does or does not work! If it works for you, good! Unless you want to handle this mano a mano, go f**k yourself with lube in the condom.

[QUOTE=Vito Corleone]I don't give a rats ass if it does or does not work! If it works for you, good! Unless you want to handle this mano a mano, go f**k yourself with lube in the condom.[/QUOTE]


"It's funny, you know. It's a good story, it's funny, you're a funny guy".

[QUOTE=Vito Corleone] Unless you want to handle this mano a mano, go f**k yourself with lube in the condom.[/QUOTE]

I am interested... what does Mano a mano really means? you're gonna ask Jimmy "the Nose" to beat him up? :D

[QUOTE=Cuba Tourist]II went to a public facility and they gave me the OraSure test and I had my results -- negative -- in 20 minutes.

He said that he had done about 10,000 tests over many years and not a single heterosexual male tested positive.

What does this mean? I find it extremely confusing.[/QUOTE]So the OraSure test is an antibody test, and it will only detect HIV antibodies, which appear in the blood about 3 months post-infection.

Most people who have a test go because they have a specific reason, ie they had unprotected sex the night before. The OraSure test is utterly utterly useless for this. So it doesn't surprise me that a doctor in a holiday setting with a transient population will see mostly negatives.

If he did the PCR test (which detects HIV particles in the blood) he might see a very different picture...

There are two separate stories that I need to distinguish. The first one was the HIV test that I took back in the United States. I spoke to an AIDS counselor who works at the public health clinic and he is the one that told me that he has not seen a single case where a heterosexual male got HIV from a woman. I presume that a heavy percentage of the people coming there are black and lower income.

The second story is my discussion with the doctor in Puerto Galera. The doctor there said that there were very few positives when the bar girls were tested every six months -- only one actually in recent memory. Here is where your point is most applicable -- the girls come and go almost as much as the tourists do. Any girl that thinks she might be sick probably leaves before the test or somehow avoids taking it. Other girls may have HIV but may test negative because they just got it.

The three-month window is basically a maximum -- 99% of people who caught HIV will show the antibodies by the three-month mark. But many if not most will show it by six weeks. The counselor told me that in his experience the OraSure test is so sensitive it actually shows within three weeks. He is just talking from personal experience rather than from a scientific point of view, but if he is correct, that would cut down the window substantially.

Unfortunately, it is not sufficiently sensitive. The bar girls may have caught HIV in the last several weeks -- many have only been in the bar for three weeks or six weeks. They tell me they've only had one boyfriend before that. Even if they're lying and they've had five, but still not very many compared to how many guys they will have slept with six weeks in the bar. So knowing their HIV status six weeks ago or even three weeks ago is unfortunately of limited value.

[QUOTE=Lover Boy #2]"It's funny, you know. It's a good story, it's funny, you're a funny guy".[/QUOTE]
What do you mean I'm funny. Like a clown I amuse you.

[QUOTE=NicFrenchy]I am interested... what does Mano a mano really means? you're gonna ask Jimmy "the Nose" to beat him up? :D[/QUOTE]
Lucca Brasi

[quote=mouse1]
if he did the pcr test (which detects hiv particles in the blood) he might see a very different picture...[/quote]

for pcr use in detecting aids, professor kary mullis, who received the 1993 nobel prize in chemistry for his development of the polymerase chain reaction (pcr), is more than sceptical, and i guess he should know, because he is the inventor of pcr and got the nobel prize for that.

prof. mullis has drawn controversy for his association with prominent aids denialist peter duesberg and his rejection of the evidence that hivcauses aids. at a 1994 conference in toledo, spain, mullis changed the topic of his speech at the last minute, and instead lectured the crowd on his idea that hiv does not cause aids.

mullis wrote in an introduction to duesberg's inventing the aids virus (1997), "no one has ever proven that hiv causes aids. we have not been able to discover any good reasons why most of the people on earth believe that aids is a disease caused by a virus called hiv." mullis has stated that aids is an arbitrary diagnosis in which common medical conditions are mislabelled as aids when antibodies to hiv are found in a patient.”

the full text of mullis’s introduction to prof. duesberg’s book can be found at [url]http://www.duesberg.com/viewpoints/kintro.html[/url]. in it, he recalls his confronting prof. montagnier, the most recent nobel prize winner in that field for his work on hiv (that got montagnier into a nasty lawsuit with prof. gallo, the “official” inventor of hiv and original proponent of the hiv/aids theory).

prof. mullis is a somewhat controversial scientist for more reasons than his foray with aids denialists. no matter what, he is a nobel prize winner who sparkled controversy with heretic views in his own field of expertise, unlike other nobels who proved that they were pathetically wrong outside of their field.

[QUOTE=Goyave]Sorry, but you can provide all the "proofs" you want, but with or without extra lube inside the condom, the sensations (in my own case) are better without a condom... it does not mean that I'm advocating uncovered sex (and I won't go bareback with girls whom I don't know for sure their STD/HIV health status), but what you're saying is just untrue (again, at least in my own case).[/QUOTE]Interesting. But not really dealing with the issue. Like I hinted at before, if you get stimulated for a certain time before vaginal intercourse, then using the condom for banging her will feel just as good as without it.

For example, a guy masterbates with lube for 30 minutes while a TG is licking his balls and fingering his asshole, all 3 at the same time. By then the feeling is getting pretty good and the hotdog is rock solid. At that point fucking her with or without the condom would not feel any different.

So there is really no need to go without a condom. Unless it is your objective to make babies or pass on STDs.

[QUOTE=Vito Corleone]I don't give a rats ass if it does or does not work! If it works for you, good! Unless you want to handle this mano a mano, go f**k yourself with lube in the condom.[/QUOTE]

Please accept my apologies for that post, which was really harsh.

That was the first and last time i will contribute to this site while drunk.

OTOH, someone had to take up the slack for OTHs absence.

According to the well documented website [url]http://www.aliveandwell.org/[/url], Professor Montagnier, the 2008 Nobel Prize laureate for his work on HIV, offers in a film interview from 2007some really startling remarks that make him sound more like an "AIDS dissident" than an HIV advocate:

• HIV alone cannot cause AIDS, it requires co-factors
• Oxidative stress is the most important co-factor
• The immune systems of people that are healthy and properly nourished render HIV harmless
• Antiretroviral drugs for AIDS are toxic, do not specifically target HIV, and cannot be tolerated over the course of a lifetime

The website offers startling revelations about why Professor Gallo, who claimed he found that what was causing AIDS was a retrovirus called HIV and has been presented for 25 years as the “inventor” of HIV, was simply ignored by the Nobel academy.

[QUOTE=PinkPearl]For example, a guy masterbates with lube for 30 minutes while a TG is licking his balls and fingering his asshole, all 3 at the same time. By then the feeling is getting pretty good and the hotdog is rock solid. At that point fucking her with or without the condom would not feel any different.[/QUOTE]

Nonsense. I don't care how much ball-licking or asshole-fingering is accomplished prior to coitus (and I should note I'm not a fan of either), the condomless sex will still feel tremendously better than the condom-sex.

[QUOTE=Seydlitz]According to the well documented website [url]http://www.aliveandwell.org/[/url], Professor Montagnier, the 2008 Nobel Prize laureate for his work on HIV, offers in a film interview from 2007some really startling remarks that make him sound more like an "AIDS dissident" than an HIV advocate:[/QUOTE]It's on the internet! It must be true!

[QUOTE=Seydlitz]• HIV alone cannot cause AIDS, it requires co-factors[/QUOTE]Possibly, so what?
[QUOTE=Seydlitz]• Oxidative stress is the most important co-factor[/QUOTE]Oxidative stress, caused by normal metabolism of sugars
[QUOTE=Seydlitz]• The immune systems of people that are healthy and properly nourished render HIV harmless[/QUOTE]Except for those who have died.
[QUOTE=Seydlitz]• Antiretroviral drugs for AIDS are toxic, do not specifically target HIV, and cannot be tolerated over the course of a lifetime
[/QUOTE]Absolutely correct, although with the caveat that 'lifetime' is considerably shorter without them.

[QUOTE=Seydlitz]The website offers startling revelations about why Professor Gallo, who claimed he found that what was causing AIDS was a retrovirus called HIV and has been presented for 25 years as the “inventor” of HIV, was simply ignored by the Nobel academy.[/QUOTE]Or you might prefer this link:

[url]http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F0CEFDA103DF932A05751C1A964958260&sec=health&pagewanted=print[/url]

[QUOTE=Vito Corleone]What do you mean I'm funny. Like a clown I amuse you.[/QUOTE]



PinkPearl "Please accept my apologies for that post, which was really harsh".


"When they found PinkPearl in the meat truck, he was frozen so stiff it took them three days to thaw him out for the autopsy".

[QUOTE=Opebo]Nonsense. I don't care how much ball-licking or asshole-fingering is accomplished prior to coitus (and I should note I'm not a fan of either), the condomless sex will still feel tremendously better than the condom-sex.[/QUOTE]Maybe for you, but not for me. And in your case I suggest it may be so, but only because your mind has been brainwashed to such an extent that it is affecting your body to feel that way. In a similar manner as a placebo works to heal a sick person. Or one who is psychotic and delusional may be scared to death even though there is no real danger.

IOW, your mind has been deluded to believe that condom sex will not feel as good for you as going bareback. So it "makes it so". Mind over matter, as they say. It is a fact that sex is a very mental thing, and one's frame of mind will affect the experience.

But that is nothing that some reeducation and or psychiatic counselling cannot correct. Maybe AA, NA, or GA would be a good place for you to start. BTW, those are not names of TGs who insist on using a condom.

As to how one becomes brainwashed in your way, I have a few theories.

But the evidence of self deception is there in the quote above. And from comments you've made in the past, such as a reference to "fucking a condom" being contrasted with bareback. As long as you continue to think in these terms you will be biased, fail to be objective, and feel better without a condom.

[QUOTE=PinkPearl]Interesting. But not really dealing with the issue. Like I hinted at before, if you get stimulated for a certain time before vaginal intercourse, then using the condom for banging her will feel just as good as without it.

For example, a guy masterbates with lube for 30 minutes while a TG is licking his balls and fingering his asshole, all 3 at the same time. By then the feeling is getting pretty good and the hotdog is rock solid. At that point fucking her with or without the condom would not feel any different.

So there is really no need to go without a condom. Unless it is your objective to make babies or pass on STDs.[/QUOTE]Not dealing with the issue? Really? You said:

[QUOTE=PinkPearl]I have already provided several proofs that using the condom can feel just as good as without it, if not better."[/QUOTE]And I answered:

[QUOTE=Goyave]Sorry, but you can provide all the "proofs" you want, but with or without extra lube inside the condom, the sensations (in my own case) are better without a condom... it does not mean that I'm advocating uncovered sex (and I won't go bareback with girls whom I don't know for sure their STD/HIV health status), but what you're saying is just untrue (again, at least in my own case).[/QUOTE]Imho, the issue is not whether "uncovered" sex is or not safer than "covered" sex. Nobody seriously contests this point: covered sex is safer. But saying that "using a condom can feel just as good as without if, if not better" is. Despite what you are saying. Unproven, and untrue in a great majority of cases. Actually, you are apparently alone here thinking alike.

Moreover, you example is irrelevant and certainly not a "proof".

Again, I am not advocating uncovered sex (bis repetita placent), but you have to admit that a covered blow job (for instance) performed by the same girl with an equal mastery can't provide you the same agreeable sensations than an uncovered one. The difference is even more obvious if the girl has poor skills.

With or without lube inside them, do you see often a guy caressing his girlfriend's hair with surgeon gloves? You should try it as you believe that the sensation can be "as good as or even better than without" them.

Your cause (advocating safe sex) is laudable, but you're using a wrong argument here.

But Pink, even if I sit in this chair naked, I feel it more than when I'm wearing trousers.

I should think my claims that one feels a thing more when one touches it than when one is separated from it are fairly uncontroversial.

I don't give a toss about any of this philosophizing about what feels better.

The topic, if I'm correct, is about Safe sex in Thailand.. maybe I read it wrong.

The point is that if I have HPV, warts, herpes, Hep C, or whatever, and go out and give it bareback to a few 100 girls, and especially the places I know that you frequent.. chances are you're gonna get a nice gift.

But this is the sort of behavior you're advocating..

So in the end do what you want to do.. or what you think feels better. Who cares?

[QUOTE=Opebo]But Pink, even if I sit in this chair naked, I feel it more than when I'm wearing trousers.

I should think my claims that one feels a thing more when one touches it than when one is separated from it are fairly uncontroversial.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Freeman 418]
The point is that if I have HPV, warts, herpes, Hep C, or whatever, and go out and give it bareback to a few 100 girls, and especially the places I know that you frequent.. chances are you're gonna get a nice gift.
[/QUOTE]

I am no doctor but, I think if she has herpes, the rubber won't make a difference, you'll still catch it.

[QUOTE=NicFrenchy]I am no doctor but, I think if she has herpes, the rubber won't make a difference, you'll still catch it.[/QUOTE]Apparently, it does make a difference.

[QUOTE=Wikipedia][url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Condom[/url]

Condoms are widely recommended for the prevention of sexually transmitted diseases (STDs). They have been shown to be effective in reducing infection rates in both men and women. [b]While not perfect, the condom is effective at reducing the transmission of HIV, genital herpes, genital warts, syphilis, chlamydia, gonorrhea, and other diseases.[/b]
...
A 2006 study reports that proper condom use decreases the risk of transmission for human papillomavirus by approximately 70%. [b]Another study in the same year found consistent condom use was effective at reducing transmission of herpes simplex virus-2 also known as genital herpes, in both men and women.[/b][/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=NicFrenchy]I am no doctor but, I think if she has herpes, the rubber won't make a difference, you'll still catch it.[/QUOTE]
Do you mean you'll catch it from BBBJ or something else?

Once a doctor told me I had herpes cold sores on the mouth.
Fortunately I then saw a skin specialist who said it obviously wasn't. Just a bacterial infection that responded very well to anti-biotics. I got lucky!

Later I was not so lucky when doctors failed to give me anti-biotics for an eye infection thinking it was a virus. 4 weeks of suffering ensued.

I now think its better to just take the anti-biotics to at least eliminate common bacterial infections.

There's many herpes virus types.. it's my understanding that the genital type isn't commonly transmitted through mouth contact. People who already get cold sores around their mouth have at least one type.

And yeah.. rubbers do give some form of barrier for genital herpes.. makes sense if there's an outbreak on in and around her vagina, and only the rubber makes contact.. not 100%, but way better than nothing.

As for antibiotics, they won't do anything for a virus, but for bacteria, yeah they're a good bomb attack. I don't abuse them though (oral ones) because they do horrid things to the digestive system and whipe out any form of "good" bacteria as well.



[QUOTE=Mick Licker]Do you mean you'll catch it from BBBJ or something else?

Once a doctor told me I had herpes cold sores on the mouth.
Fortunately I then saw a skin specialist who said it obviously wasn't. Just a bacterial infection that responded very well to anti-biotics. I got lucky!

Later I was not so lucky when doctors failed to give me anti-biotics for an eye infection thinking it was a virus. 4 weeks of suffering ensued.

I now think its better to just take the anti-biotics to at least eliminate common bacterial infections.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Freeman 418]
And yeah.. rubbers do give some form of barrier for genital herpes.. makes sense if there's an outbreak on in and around her vagina, and only the rubber makes contact.. not 100%, but way better than nothing.[/QUOTE]
So could Herpes be caught somewhere other than dick (covered by condom) like balls etc.? or is this rather unlikely?

You can get genital herpes on the mouth with the right contacts. Heere are search links

[url]http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=herpes+mouth+genital&btnG=Search&meta=[/url]

If you fuck dirty people, you can get dirty diseases. So far, I have been lucky. (I think).

[QUOTE=Mick Licker]So could Herpes be caught somewhere other than dick (covered by condom) like balls etc.? or is this rather unlikely?[/QUOTE]
As far as I know, herpes is transmitted through tiny breaks in the skin - which are most likely to occur in mucuous membranes (mouth, genitals). So assuming you don't scratch your balls to violenty, they shouldn't be in danger ;)

However, the different types of herpes can travel. In an interview, a researcher recently commented that they nowadays find types typically causing cold sores and mouth ulcers in other regions (and vice versa) - obviously reflecting changes in sexual practices ...

I have been following these discussions with great interest but not much on which brands of condom you guys prefer and their availability in Thailand. Which feels best and which are most reliable? Use lube or dry? Haven't needed them in 20 years so know little.

Thanks,
Slim

In pathology, the classification of "Herpes virus" is a very vague one. Chickenpox, eppstein-barr and CMV.

In common usage though, you're talking about the Herpes Simplex Virus (HSV). HSV-1 is generally what's known as "oral herpes" and HSV-2 is generally known as "genital herpes". As someone said a few previous posts back.- it's possible to be infected with HSV-1 in your genital region, and HSV-2 around your mouth. With that said, In the odd chance that you are infected this way, your symptoms generally are much less severe and less frequent than if you were infected with the 'correct' strain for that area of your body.

Transmission is obviously most easily done when there is contact with mucous membranes, as with any disease. Even so, the virus can still be transmitted via skin-to-skin, or if some vaginal fluid finds its way. For instance, I had a patient who presented with anal herpes, who (claimed) that the girl was wet, and her fluids leaked to his ass. While I'm not sure if this is true, it's definitely possible.

[QUOTE=Nvslim]I have been following these discussions with great interest but not much on which brands of condom you guys prefer and their availability in Thailand. Which feels best and which are most reliable? Use lube or dry? Haven't needed them in 20 years so know little.

Thanks,
Slim[/QUOTE]


If you have a normal sized Farang dick you should bring your own condoms from the States or wherever. Sometimes you buy a condom in Thailand and it's too small and will therefore be prone to tearing. I prefer the roomy ones with a big head, and as for lubrication, too much dulls the sensation but not enough can also cause problems. I personally don't care about the lubrication because at my age only a BBBJ with CIM will get me off.

BTW, many of the major brands are made in Thailand, but it's difficult to find the larger sizes in BKK.

[QUOTE=Nvslim]I have been following these discussions with great interest but not much on which brands of condom you guys prefer and their availability in Thailand. Which feels best and which are most reliable? Use lube or dry? Haven't needed them in 20 years so know little.

Thanks,

Slim[/QUOTE]Durex condoms are widely available in Thailand (every 7-Eleven for instance can provide various models by this brand). In Thailand, I use Durex Pleasuremax condoms but my favorite condom is probably the "Mutual Pleasure" model from Hansaplast (I don't know whether or not it's available here, I buy those while I'm back in France).

[QUOTE=Retired Army]Sometimes you buy a condom in Thailand and it's too small and will therefore be prone to tearing. I prefer the roomy ones with a big head, and as for lubrication, too much dulls the sensation but not enough can also cause problems. I personally don't care about the lubrication because at my age only a BBBJ with CIM will get me off.

BTW, many of the major brands are made in Thailand, but it's difficult to find the larger sizes in BKK.[/QUOTE]

No its not difficult really.
DUREX Comfort is 54mm with the larger bulbed head.
I don't find it much different to larger size from Germany, Australia, etc.
Available in most 7/11 or Pharmacies in Sukhumvit Road or Patpong district, but non-touristy areas may not have it.

Standard 52mm is available of course and 49mm.

For prolonged sex with a condom, lube becomes essential.
I think KY is crap. Too sticky. Durex Play is a passable but not great.
I prefer Condomi or Ritex Gel that I got from Germany Schlecker store.

My doctor(good doctor at maybe best hospital in bkk) that from the issan sex workers he tests about 9 in 10 have hpv and the gay sex workers including very bi-sexual about 1 in 3 for Hiv and 1 in 2 if gay gay and older.

i don't want to make people afriad of thai sex worker but not wearing a condom is spitting at life and spitting at the world and is a show that the person is very uneducated or very bitter and angry or very very selfish and angry.

The doctor told me that the workers themselves are normally very uneducated and a lot don't show outside symtons of their std's and the men they have sex with may not show symtons for many months or not at all if have good white cells? but still carry the std and spread it.

Maybe i should not say but the rate of std's in Thailand is very much higher over what is official but Tourist money is so high that is better not to you know give a bad image. Is there information on the official numbers of std in thailand here.

Just wear a condom. it's the right thing to do.

[QUOTE=Opebo]But Pink, even if I sit in this chair naked, I feel it more than when I'm wearing trousers.

I should think my claims that one feels a thing more when one touches it than when one is separated from it are fairly uncontroversial.[/QUOTE]I think it should be uncontroversial that a condom cannot be compared to a pair of trousers, certainly not jeans. Maybe if they were made of some very fine material like a woman's silk neglige. And then the same could be soaked with water, oil, or liquid KY.

As to the point of separation, if a lady massages my lubed up balls with a latex medical glove, she is still touching me even if indirectly. It is not like she is in another room down the hall. And, BTW, in my experience, there is no perceptible difference in sensation between the use of the gloved and the bare hand on my nutsacks, with generous amounts of lube being used for both.

But unlike the glove massage with lube, where the glove is free to move around on the male genitals, and with it move the lube as well, the condom may not be moving around on the penis during a CBJ or CFS, and as a result the sensation may not be as good as bareback. Personally I find that during a CBJ the sucking motions tend to pull the condom upwards and towards coming off, so there is a lot of friction which may enhance the feeling to the point of making it feel as good as a BBBJ. BTW the saliva as a lube from a BBBJ may not be as pleasurable as a store bought liquid lubricant placed on the dick prior to the CBJ. Have you ever tried the heat sensation lubes?

For me there is a psychological turn on factor of the bare BJ as opposed to the same with a condom, especially if it is a coloured condom that obscures my view, as opposed to a crystal clear see through cover. But this mental turn on may be cancelled out due to the worrisome thoughts about getting STDs.

[QUOTE=Goyave]

Again, I am not advocating uncovered sex (bis repetita placent), but you have to admit that a covered blow job (for instance) performed by the same girl with an equal mastery can't provide you the same agreeable sensations than an uncovered one. The difference is even more obvious if the girl has poor skills.

With or without lube inside them, do you see often a guy caressing his girlfriend's hair with surgeon gloves? You should try it as you believe that the sensation can be "as good as or even better than without" them.[/QUOTE]I have earlier today addressed the BJ subject with my experiences and ideas in a post to Opebo.

Re your hair example, I have never tried this and would suggest it is a case of apples and oranges. What I have tried is recieving a balls massage with a lubed up latex glove and also with a bare hand, and the sensation was the same in either case. This example also is touched upon in more detail in the above mentioned post.

[QUOTE=Freeman 418]I don't give a toss about any of this philosophizing about what feels better.

The topic, if I'm correct, is about Safe sex in Thailand.. maybe I read it wrong.

The point is that if I have HPV, warts, herpes, Hep C, or whatever, and go out and give it bareback to a few 100 girls, and especially the places I know that you frequent.. chances are you're gonna get a nice gift.

But this is the sort of behavior you're advocating..

So in the end do what you want to do.. or what you think feels better. Who cares?[/QUOTE]To answer the question.

I guess one concern is that if those going BB are spreading disease, that is putting those who practice safe sex at greater risk. If the condom breaks, for example, and one picks up HIV, a death sentence, from a lady who would not have otherwise had HIV if some guy going bareback hadn't infected her.

30 days at Thailand, 8 differentet girls, and I think I got Mononucleosis.

I don't know why people don't speak about this too much, if you have not beeing infected by mono before, and you like kissing, I guess you have a 100% probabilty of catching it. And it's quite a nasty illness.

[QUOTE=Freeman 418]I don't give a toss about any of this philosophizing about what feels better.

The topic, if I'm correct, is about Safe sex in Thailand.. maybe I read it wrong.
[/QUOTE]
Then don't f**king reply

[QUOTE=Dardo]30 days at Thailand, 8 differentet girls, and I think I got Mononucleosis.

I don't know why people don't speak about this too much, if you have not beeing infected by mono before, and you like kissing, I guess you have a 100% probabilty of catching it. And it's quite a nasty illness.[/QUOTE]

Seems to be another name for "Glandular Fever".
Obviously we do not have a 100% probability of catching it, otherwise we all would have caught it already.
I have been kissing many girls for years and still do not have it,
or perhaps I have had it already without knowing and recovered. I did have a severe virus for several days 2-3 years back without knowing what it was (but no swollen glands to my knowledge), probably caught from a P4P girl.

Or maybe I have been lucky enough not to kiss a girl that is currently contagious with this virus.

Kissing is well known to be dangerous for catching various viruses from girls. Its generally significantly more dangerous than giving DATY for example.

[QUOTE=Thai Companion]My doctor(good doctor at maybe best hospital in bkk) that from the issan sex workers he tests about 9 in 10 have hpv ......[/QUOTE]
I have to be sceptical of this figure.
I believe from, internet browsing, that 50% of sexually active people acquire HPV at some point in their lives, but 90% of people can eliminate it, through their own immune system, within 2 years.

Now given that many high class P4P girls insist on condoms all the time, and given that a fairly good percentage of those who have had it are already cured, it seems impossible that 9 out of ten tested can currently have it.

If you said 9 out of 10 P4Ps have had it at some point, I would find that more plausible.

It seems that longer term P4Ps may be actually less likely to have HPV if their immune system has already had enough time to eliminate it. Newbies with HPV are more likely to still have it.

[QUOTE=Mick Licker]Now given that many high class P4P girls insist on condoms all the time...[/QUOTE]

Not with their 'boyfriends' (pimps), ML. In all seriousness the idea of a woman who never has actual sex is a kind of absurdity. Do any of you really believe such women exist?

The mongerman, sex provider, or even the sexually active adult who has not been exposed to HPV must be an great rarity.

[QUOTE=Opebo]Not with their 'boyfriends' (pimps), ML. In all seriousness the idea of a woman who never has actual sex is a kind of absurdity. Do any of you really believe such women exist?

The mongerman, sex provider, or even the sexually active adult who has not been exposed to HPV must be an great rarity.[/QUOTE]
A percentage of P4P girls are smart enough not to have any boyfriend leaching off them, believe it or not.

Classy Thai guys usually won't have a bar of a P4P girl, and she sometimes doesn't want to pick up a lousy BF who will just sponge off her.
Many P4P girls are getting plenty of sex and don't need any recreational sex as well. I don't know the percentages. Doing an accurate survey is obviously impossible.

Perhaps the number of P4Ps that have had HPV and already fully eliminated it might be a low percentage, if we were to assume that average length of time doing P4P was 3 years or less. But I don't know the average number of years.

Actually I don't know why I am talking about P4P, as non P4P girls having heaps of BB sex are at higher risk than P4Ps who use condoms. As you pointed out any sexually active adult.

Also that 50% of people getting it at some time might be a USA figure rather than Thailand figure. So I am starting to conceded that a high percentage currently having the HPV is vaguely possible. But 90% still stretches my imagination.

Anyway Opebo, don't be concerned. If you were ever going to get it, you would have had it long ago and may not have it any longer.

The rest of us using condoms are not going to be too worried about it either.

There is now a vaccination for girls and may well be one for men in the near future, or we can just get innoculated same as girls, but I seem to recall its expensive.
Gardasil I think its called.

Covered sex is safer. Nobody contests this fact. But as for "sensations being the same or even better with a condom", you are alone thinking alike, Pink Pearl. But, please, stop saying that all other people who don't share your point of view are "brainwashed" or psychologically conditioned to feel what they actually feel.

[QUOTE=Dardo]30 days at Thailand, 8 differentet girls, and I think I got Mononucleosis.

I don't know why people don't speak about this too much, if you have not beeing infected by mono before, and you like kissing, I guess you have a 100% probabilty of catching it. And it's quite a nasty illness.[/QUOTE]I like kissing and have kissed more hookers than that in Bangkok, plus just as many crack and or heroin addicted SWs in my home cuntry. And over five years and dozens, maybe hundreds, of hours of nothing but kissing, I have never contracted Mono, so maybe you were just very unlucky. Although I generally avoid tongue kissing, and keep my saliva to myself as much as possible with open mouth kissing and expect the lady to do so also.

Overly wet lips on her are not a pleasure for me, though I keep mine well oiled with lip balms, both flavored and medicated as a preventative. And of course keep it freshened with listerine, sugarless gum, and mints.

Recently a P4P TG told me Thai girls do not like to kiss. In my experience though it is easy to find TGs who are willing to do so, and they actually have kissed better than those mentioned above in Canada.

Just as no two ladies lick balls alike, no two women kiss the same. And if one is very particular or picky about how they want to do it, then they may have some difficulty finding the right girl for them. In BKK you can find everything in the range of those who will kiss only softly with their mouth closed to those who are into wild and crazy deep french slobering.

Personally I require something inbetween these two extremes. And often enjoy smooching for up to one or two hours at a time. This is too long for most ladies, as it would also be for most for genital intercourse. But to some TGs kissing is considered an easier form of work than sucking or fucking, so getting together with me can a nice break for them if all we do is kiss. Some claim to enjoy kissing and their actions seem to back that up, whereas others show that they are obviously not into it, so I quickly dump them if they are not good for anything else.

Of course avoid kissing or doing anything with anyone with obvious sores on their mouth, face, pussy, or asshole.

[QUOTE=Goyave]Covered sex is safer. Nobody contests this fact. But as for "sensations being the same or even better with a condom", you are alone thinking alike, Pink Pearl. But, please, stop saying that all other people who don't share your point of view are "brainwashed" or psychologically conditioned to feel what they actually feel. [/QUOTE]If as much as a handful of posters have expressed disagreement with my view and I am "alone", outnumbered five to one, so what? That is about as relevant as arguing that the the minority in Nazi Germany who opposed Hitler were relatively alone compared to the majority of the masses who followed his brainwashing and or madness.

And why should I stop saying that people can feel a certain way because of their thinking, like a claustrophibic person scared because he's in an elevator? My life may be at risk if Opebo has HIV and continues to do TGs without protection.

Until you have tried all the things I have suggested to make condom sex feel as good or better than bareback, I would kindly suggest that your words are boxing with the air and farting into the wind.

[url=http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/legends/godwin/]Godwin's law, PinkP![/url] But I suppose most people condemn barebackers at least as much as they do Nazis.

[QUOTE=PinkPearl]If as much as a handful of posters have expressed disagreement with my view and I am "alone", outnumbered five to one, so what? That is about as relevant as arguing that the the minority in Nazi Germany who opposed Hitler were relatively alone compared to the majority of the masses who followed his brainwashing and or madness.[/QUOTE]Opebo beat me invoking the Godwin's law. Your argument here is absolutely irrelevant! And you were speaking about "apples and oranges" when I suggested that you caress a woman's hair with your hands wearing surgeon gloves?

[QUOTE=PinkPearl]And why should I stop saying that people can feel a certain way because of their thinking, like a claustrophibic person scared because he's in an elevator?[/QUOTE]Apples and oranges (as you may say!). People don't feel what they feel because of "their thinking" in most sexual acts. You are the one who want to convince us that covered sex gives the same or even more agreeable sensations than uncovered sex. It's just untrue, period. I never read nor heard anybody apart you (even among safe sex advocates) saying such nonsense. Yes, protected sex is safer, but no, it doesn't feel the same nor better than uncovered sex. Come on! Do you put a condom on your dick for a wank? Unlikely!

[QUOTE=PinkPearl]My life may be at risk if Opebo has HIV and continues to do TGs without protection.[/QUOTE]Why would your life be at risk if you practice safe sex and use lube and condoms? Instead of insisting with your allegations about sensations, you should focus on safe practices that include how to prevent condom failures.

[QUOTE=PinkPearl]Until you have tried all the things I have suggested to make condom sex feel as good or better than bareback, I would kindly suggest that your words are boxing with the air and farting into the wind.[/QUOTE]Until I see you wanking with a condom... Again, I practice safe sex with women whom I don't know their HIV/STDs health status, don't be afraid, but not because it feels better, just because it's... safer! (It's called "safe sex" and not "better sex" for a reason, no?)

I compare what is comparable: same sexual act, covered (with lube or not) and uncovered, with people of comparable skills, and uncovered sex feels better in all cases, at least for me and for probably every other monger here apart you, PearlPink! Oh, yes... I almost forgot that's because we are a bunch of brainwashed Nazi supporters at ISG! But don't be afraid, I will certainly use a surgeon glove if one day I have to perform a DRE (digital rectal examination) on you. And I can already tell you that it would feel really good, at least at my side, but I am probably psychologically conditioned here!

But in the meanwhile, I have a little gift for you, PinkPearl: [url]http://imagehoster.us/uploads/8187e728d6.jpg[/url]

Cheers,

G.

To whom it may concern:

[URL]http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?p=815821&postcount=228[/URL]


Giotto

[QUOTE=Giotto]....
We talked about where he thought he had got it - and he said that he had always used condoms, when he was actively hunting in Pattaya, Sri Racha or Chonburi. No exception, always condom! --- But sometimes the condoms were broken, of course, shit happens. Bad luck. I asked about his Thai wife ... and he turned away and did not answer.
...[/QUOTE]
Afterwards its hard to show who gave it to who. Its quite likely that he got it from the wife or else he is stretching the truth about his mongering.

My ex GF in Thailand insisted that both she and I get tested on a reasonably regular basis. I think its a good idea as "trust" is greatly over-rated.

[QUOTE=Goyave]You are the one who want to convince us that covered sex gives the same or even more agreeable sensations than uncovered sex. It's just untrue, period.[/QUOTE]Actually if I recall I stated that Opebo may find BB sex feels better than condom sex. But to such I say that is because either they have not tried certain things, some of which I've already mentioned, to make condom sex feel as good as or better than BB, or their mind has programmed them to feel that way. You have already admitted that the latter is a possibility. As for the former, you have not addressed it at all.

If a sadist or a masochist has mental problems such that they get off and feel good being that way, I think that many who practice BB sex are not much different. Some of them have issues with women and want to hurt them. Hence no condom. Get them pregnant. Give them STDs. Fill them full of cum. Degrade them. Tell them BB or forget it and in so doing coerce them into putting themselves at risk. These guys would not enjoy sex with a condom. It has nothing to do with a condom per se causing sexual intercourse to be less pleasurable, but the problem is with their stinking thinking. I suggest that there are a number of mental issues besides misogyny that can lead men to demand BB sex and cause them to enjoy it more, while a normal person could discover that condom sex CAN be equally pleasurable, IF they know how to do it. The sick person, OTOH, might get help from AA, NA, GA, etc.

But as I've implied before, if you are like the vast majority of men who cum during genital intercourse in zero to twenty minutes, then you may never discover that condom sex can be just as good or better than BB. Especially so if you are unable to get pleasured by a woman or masterbating or both simultaneously to the point of ecstasy without cumming prior to genital intercourse. It typicly takes me an average of maybe 30 minutes to get to that point. Then after if I do not cum during sex, which is usually the way I want it, the next sexual encounter will be even more pleasurable.

I hope that clarifies some things for you and brings you up to date on this discussion. More later, as I have a very hot date to attend.

[QUOTE=PinkPearl]
Until you have tried all the things I have suggested to make condom sex feel as good or better than bareback, I would kindly suggest that your words are boxing with the air and farting into the wind.
[/QUOTE]

I for one am interested in anything that will improve sex with a condom. In my younger days in the 80s, it was not dangerous to go bareback but today, its scary.

I looked back through the messages and could not find your post. Please repeat and expand on your method.

Thanks,
Slim

[QUOTE=PinkPearl]Actually if I recall I stated that Opebo may find BB sex feels better than condom sex. But to such I say that is because either they have not tried certain things, some of which I've already mentioned, to make condom sex feel as good as or better than BB, or their mind has programmed them to feel that way.[/QUOTE]That's roughly what you wrote (among other things) at a certain point of this thread, but it's not exactly what made me intervene. Read again my previous posts as you seem to have already forgotten who said what, when and why.

[QUOTE=PinkPearl]You have already admitted that the latter is a possibility.[/QUOTE]No. It was not me. By the way, yourself implied that, putting this allegation in the "mouth" of another poster even if that was not his words. Read previous posts.

[QUOTE=PinkPearl]As for the former, you have not addressed it at all.[/QUOTE]I did not need to do that as it was not the issue for me. Read again my previous posts and start addressing the points I have made instead of digressing all the time. Every attentive reader has already noticed how you try to avoid certain questions (for instance, invoking "apples and oranges" irrelevantly) because you can't find a real answer that would not prove you wrong.

[QUOTE=PinkPearl]If a sadist or a masochist has mental problems such that they get off and feel good being that way, I think that many who practice BB sex are not much different. Some of them have issues with women and want to hurt them. Hence no condom. Get them pregnant. Give them STDs. Fill them full of cum. Degrade them. Tell them BB or forget it and in so doing coerce them into putting themselves at risk. These guys would not enjoy sex with a condom. It has nothing to do with a condom per se causing sexual intercourse to be less pleasurable, but the problem is with their stinking thinking. I suggest that there are a number of mental issues besides misogyny that can lead men to demand BB sex and cause them to enjoy it more, while a normal person could discover that condom sex CAN be equally pleasurable, IF they know how to do it. The sick person, OTOH, might get help from AA, NA, GA, etc.[/QUOTE]Absolutely irrelevant diatribe (because it is not what I am discussing here with you). Again, read my previous posts thoroughly as you seem to have completely missed my points. And by the way, your cheap pseudo-psychological logorrhea is full of unfounded assumptions. After implying that ISG members who don't share your point of view are just a bunch of brainwashed fascists, you are now suggesting that those who don't practice safe sex are "sadist or masochist with mental problems". Wow! I don't condone unprotected intercourse (especially with hookers) and don't approve certain barebackers' attitudes, but you are going way too far here, methinks!

[QUOTE=PinkPearl]But as I've implied before, if you are like the vast majority of men who cum during genital intercourse in zero to twenty minutes, then you may never discover that condom sex can be just as good or better than BB.[/QUOTE]Believe it or not, but I am not in the "vast majority of men". Actually, that's the main reason why I am a *****monger: I need variety. With a regular girlfriend, I get bored sooner or later. Vaginal intercourse sometimes last hours (yes, hours, without any medication, and no, I'm not a boaster, but with a few 5-10 minutes pauses though...), I have good feelings, but often can't cum. Guess what, It's even "worse" if I have to use condoms (but again, I use them when I don't know for sure the HIV/STD health status of my partners because it is indisputably safer). I can cum more easily and quickly with women that I don't know yet too much. So, P4P is the (most convenient) way to (cum and) go for me...

[QUOTE=PinkPearl]Especially so if you are unable to get pleasured by a woman or masterbating or both simultaneously to the point of ecstasy without cumming prior to genital intercourse. It typicly takes me an average of maybe 30 minutes to get to that point. Then after if I do not cum during sex, which is usually the way I want it, the next sexual encounter will be even more pleasurable.[/QUOTE]Another irrelevant digression.

[QUOTE=PinkPearl]I hope that clarifies some things for you and brings you up to date on this discussion. [/QUOTE]Not really. But it doesn't matter anyway.

[QUOTE=PinkPearl]More later, as I have a very hot date to attend.[/QUOTE]Don't bother. I don't care. Especially since you've already demonstrated that you don't read attentively what others write and quote them quite incorrectly, ascribing to them opinions and sentences that are not theirs...

That's why I will almost certainly just ignore your next reply. This discussion is getting more and more tiresome and boring (at least for me, one of those stupid brainwashed ISG members who can't be convinced despite all your efforts that he should put on a condom for his next wank!)

[QUOTE=Opebo][url=http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/legends/godwin/]Godwin's law, PinkP![/url] But I suppose most people condemn barebackers at least as much as they do Nazis.[/QUOTE]If you have a point to make feel free to post a sentence or two here, as I am not inclined to read such a lengthy page. However any reference to Naziism was merely incidental to my point, if you grasped it, and I could have used any number of other examples to make it.

[QUOTE=Goyave]Yes, protected sex is safer, but no, it doesn't feel the same nor better than uncovered sex. Come on! Do you put a condom on your dick for a wank? Unlikely![/QUOTE]Well condom sex feels as good for me, so I don't know what your problem is, or what you are doing wrong. Maybe a sex shrink could help you out.

Do I put a cover on to jerk off? Why would I waste the money to buy a condom for that? Are you in the habit of flushing dollars down the toilet?

But if you think it feels any better to use your bare hand as opposed to a condom on your lubed up dick, perhaps you should try it sometime.

Experience has already proven to me that it feels just as good with the condom on. For example during an intermission of a CBJ, such as when the lady goes to the can to barf.

Cheerio mate. And best of luck. LOL.

[QUOTE=Goyave]Why would your life be at risk if you practice safe sex and use lube and condoms? [/QUOTE]Because condoms can break, slip off, be flawed. Then a barebacker who has passed on HIV to a lady could be indirectly infecting me with the same, a death sentence.

[QUOTE=Mick Licker]Afterwards its hard to show who gave it to who. Its quite likely that he got it from the wife or else he is stretching the truth about his mongering.

My ex GF in Thailand insisted that both she and I get tested on a reasonably regular basis. I think its a good idea as "trust" is greatly over-rated.[/QUOTE]What I found scary aout the history is the idea of a monger infected with HIV, mongering around for YEARS, and in this case, even with the girls knowing about his condition.

But, who can blame him? (As long as he used condoms, of course.)

Hello all,

I am new to this forum and have been thinking about traveling to Thailand for quite some time now. I found this escort service called Bangkok Girls where they offer a special service of sex w/o a condom after all parties meet at a medical center to be checked out. I know STD can lay dormant about a month before being able to be picked up by a test, but I was wondering if anyone knew about this practice? Is it safe cause we're going to a medical center to be tested? Are other escort agencies offering this cause this was the only one I found that offered this special service?

Any information anyone can offer would be great. Thanks,

Will

[QUOTE=PinkPearl]...such as when the lady goes to the can to barf.[/QUOTE]

LOL!

About Godwin's Law, PP, its just this:

[i]As a ...discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison
involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one.[/i][url=http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/legends/godwin/]1[/url]

Also, the idea that once you've used Naziism/Fascism as an accusation in your argument, it essentially shuts down reasoned debate in that thread. As stated:

[i] If someone brings up Nazis in general conversation when it wasn't necessary or germane without it necessarily being an insult, it's probably about time for the thread to end.[/i][url=http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/legends/godwin/]1[/url]

And:

[i]If someone brings up Nazis in general conversation when it was vaguely related but is basically being used as an insult, the speaker can be considered to be flaming and not debating.[/i][url=http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/legends/godwin/]1[/url]

Just some old-time internet lore. Makes me feel old - I've been playing at chats and forums for over 15 years now!

Sources:
1. [url=http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/legends/godwin/]Usenet FAQs[/url]

[QUOTE=PinkPearl]Because condoms can break, slip off, be flawed. Then a barebacker who has passed on HIV to a lady could be indirectly infecting me with the same, a death sentence.[/QUOTE]You deliberately quote me incompletely (that's an improvement from earlier though when you ascribe to me sentences and opinions that were not mine).

What I wrote previously was the following:

[QUOTE=Goyave]Why would your life be at risk if you practice safe sex and use lube and condoms? [b]Instead of insisting with your allegations about sensations, you should focus on safe practices that include how to prevent condom failures.[/b][/QUOTE]Stored and used properly, condoms very rarely break. The main reason that condoms sometimes fail is incorrect or inconsistent use, not the failure of the condom itself.

[url]http://www.vidmax.com/video/2337/Just_how_far_will_this_man_go_to_prove_condoms_don__39_t_break_normally/[/url]

As I said previously, it's better to focus on how to prevent condom failures than insisting with your nonsense about sensations.

Again, for probably everybody here but you (and I am not sure that you are perfectly honest when you defend the opposite point of view with much digressions or playing dumb) if you compare the same sexual act, and "same" here means with the same preliminaries / tricks (or lack of) and the same partner in the same conditions, the "covered" version is less agreeable than the "uncovered" one (would it be a wank, a fellatio, vaginal intercourse, etc.), but of course, protected sex is safer.

Funny to read again (in another reply of yours) another example of your great objectiveness! According to you, it's always others who are abnormal: they "need a shrink", are stubborn, stupid, selfish, Nazis, "masochists or sadists with mental problems", they "have issues with women", etc. I said earlier that promoting safer sex is a laudable goal, but in my humble opinion, you're doing it wrong with your pitiful attitude among other members and laughable argumentation about sensations...

[QUOTE=Nvslim]I for one am interested in anything that will improve sex with a condom. In my younger days in the 80s, it was not dangerous to go bareback but today, its scary.

I looked back through the messages and could not find your post. Please repeat and expand on your method.

Thanks,

Slim[/QUOTE]I have suggested a number of things and, of the following, the first two were given to me by sex providers in my home cuntry, although as far as I can recall have never tried those two myself, and have not found them to be necessary.

Put some drops of lube on the inside head of the condom.

Use a very thin sensitive Japanese condom {sorry, I can't recall the name, but this was noted at the PERB Pacific Escort Review Board online forum, which is similar to TERB and MERB}.

Prep yourself before genital intercourse with masterbation and or pleasuring from the woman, for example by her ball licking, massage, anal touch, kissing or whatever does it for you. That is, makes you rock hard and or feeling very good and or ecstatic and or at the point where you could cum if you wanted to.

Have intercourse for 30 minutes or more.

For CBJs I have suggested that the condom be loose enough so that it can freely move on the penis. Her fingers holding and or massaging the shaft simultaneously may aid with this movement as well as provide for additional sensations there. Furthermore a well lubed and or oiled dick beneath the cover may spice up the procedure.

For genital intercourse it may also help if the condom is not very tight and relatively loose, so that it can move around. I suggest this could improve sensations by allowing for more friction. Although I often find my condom slipping off in part or completely, knowing this I take care to check it and put it on again fully at regular intervals. But if the lady gets so hungry that her pussy eats it, you will probably have to shell out for a new one.

BTW when I cum it is usually not inside the girl, but during masterbation and or ball licking or a CBJ. And my preference is to have sex every day but only cum once or twice a week, as it seems that the experience gets better the longer it takes to blast off, and this applies to individual sessions as well.

Some methods of Tantric sex might be useful in achieving some of what is mentioned above.

This may conclude my remarks on this subject, as I am not interested in responding to posts I consider to be argumentaive in nature, and without any real substance to the comments, that is full of anal air.

[url]http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/12/18/national/national_30091258.php[/url]

[QUOTE="The Nation"][b]Red Cross urges people to take blood tests[/b]

The Thai Red Cross Aids Research Centre has urged people to undergo a blood test for HIV after being warned over 400,000 Thais probably have the disease without knowing it.

"Hundreds of thousands of Thais who are infected with HIV, the virus that causes Aids, are unaware they are infected. This is the reason the virus is still spreading across country," the centre's director Dr Praphan Panuphak said.

He was speaking at a public hearing by the Medical Council on ways adolescents can get HIV counselling and testing services. Over 150 participants from health agencies attended the event at the Miracle Grand Convention Hotel in Bangkok.

An Aids expert explained that Acquired Immune DefiCiency Syndrome (Aids) was a set of symptoms and infections caused by damage to the immune system caused by the Human Immunodeficiency Virus (HIV). The condition progressively reduced the effectiveness of the immune system and left individuals susceptible to opportunistic infections and tumours.

HIV is transmitted through direct contact between blood and a body fluid containing HIV, such as blood, semen, vaginal fluid, pre-seminal fluid or breast milk. Transmission could involve anal, vaginal or oral sex, a blood transfusion, contaminated hypodermic needles, an exchange between mother and baby during pregnancy, childbirth, or breastfeeding, or other exposure to one of the above body fluids.

The first case of HIV/Aids was reported in Thailand in 1984 and the incidence of infections has increased steadily. To date 1,115,415 adults have been infected. Of this, some 585,830 people died of Aids while 532,522 adults are suffering from HIV or Aids. Some 12,787 adults and children have reportedly been infected so far this year.

The health agency estimated that about 6,800 people per day or five people per minute were infected with HIV all around the world. Of this total, 40 per cent are young adults aged 15-24 years old.

The World Health Organisation said last year that over 30.8 million people around the world had infected with HIV, while 2.1 million died during the past year. About 2.5 million new cases of HIV had been reported in 2007.

Praphan said the number of new HIV infections could be cut to 60 per cent of current levels if people tested themselves for HIV and got antiviral drugs early to fight their infection, before showing symptoms or signs of severe immune deficiency.

After working with HIV patients more than 20 years he would like to see HIV tests become a common practice in Thai society and for members of the public should drop the stigma about people with HIV and end compulsory HIV tests for employees and job applicants. However, all HIV test results must be kept confidential.

PATH organisation program adviser Dr Wachara Pumpradit said health agencies should provide HIV testing and counselling which was proper and friendly for teenagers so it is easy for them to access the treatment and prevention.

Kiratika Pangsad, from the Family Network Foundation, said parents should be apart of HIV prevention and provide proper knowledge and counselling to help their children avoid getting the deadly virus.

"We found that most parents lack understanding about the HIV infection and don't know how to tell their kids about safe sex. We want to encourage them to open their minds and learn more about sex education, as they can talk with their children [and warn them about the disease]," she said.[/QUOTE]

There is a disturbing factor I would like to share with you here.

Everyone knows that I spend a fair amount of time on Camfrog, mainly in the Thailand rooms looking for potential giks :D

Well there is a phenomenon (not new of course) that I wanted to share here:

Many girls get fucked on cam these days and in 100% of the cases, the Thai guy does NOT wear a condom.
Also, in almost all cases, he does not pull-out and ejaculates inside the girl's pussy.

There is one girl (very good looking) that has a different guy over to her place almost every second day and she fucks them All bareback.

I also have experienced it first hand when several of my giks told me they don't like the feeling of condoms.

Just be aware that a lot of girls in this country do NOT play safe so it is up to you to enforce the condom use, and protect YOUR own life.

That's all.

now with that I will give you a few screens that I got from Camfrog ;)

[QUOTE=NicFrenchy]There is a disturbing factor I would like to share with you here.

Everyone knows that I spend a fair amount of time on Camfrog, mainly in the Thailand rooms looking for potential giks :D

Well there is a phenomenon (not new of course) that I wanted to share here:

Many girls get fucked on cam these days and in 100% of the cases, the Thai guy does NOT wear a condom.
Also, in almost all cases, he does not pull-out and ejaculates inside the girl's pussy.

There is one girl (very good looking) that has a different guy over to her place almost every second day and she fucks them All bareback.

I also have experienced it first hand when several of my giks told me they don't like the feeling of condoms.

Just be aware that a lot of girls in this country do NOT play safe so it is up to you to enforce the condom use, and protect YOUR own life.

That's all.
[/QUOTE]

We have touched on this before......this is the story 100% and it is very frightening. I can tell you that almost 100% of my contacts tell me that I look very clean, strong and nice....and therefore don't have to use a condom?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?! WTF.........this is a crazy and dangerous place. I have realized this for years. This includes amateurs and p4p.

[QUOTE=NicFrenchy]
Many girls get fucked on cam these days and in 100% of the cases, the Thai guy does NOT wear a condom.
Also, in almost all cases, he does not pull-out and ejaculates inside the girl's pussy.[/QUOTE]

How shocking!! One would expect a girl who fucks strange guys on cam every other day would behave responsibly..

[QUOTE=Pute Nut]How shocking!! One would expect a girl who fucks strange guys on cam every other day would behave responsibly..[/QUOTE]

....but we can keep up the positive attitude that responsible behavior can be found here, be optimistic......and hope for the best!!

[QUOTE=Lover Boy #2]I edited the original post to be a bit kinder and gentler.........but he stated;

"I saw a physician, got a blood test, and was diagnosed with having Chanchroid"

This also seems suspicious, because a blood test is only given to eliminate syphillis when these sores are present. A microscopic examination of the pus discharge is then done to differentiate between herpes and chancroid.

Who knows what is going on here?????....but I do agree with your theory.

This is a very serious allegation because chancroid is one of the main transmission viaducts for HIV.

(if anyone wants to discuss further...maybe the STD/Safe Sex area is better for this)[/QUOTE]
The blood test does make sense because the Chancroid sore can look similar to a Syphilis sore. And people can be infected with several STD's at the same time, including Syphilis and Chancroid.

If the Chancroid infection is common in Thailand. Then it's quite possible that doctors there don't do full and complete laboratory testing for it. They might just do a Syphilis blood test. And if it's negative. Then the doctor assumes it's probably Chancroid and treats it with antibiotics.

But any kind of sores increase the likelyhood of HIV transmission, even mechanical trauma and gonorrhea infection. There is nothing special about Chancroid in this regard, except for the fact that it causes sores which make it easier for HIV to be transmitted.

Chancroid is common in most tropical countries, whether they have high rates of HIV infection or not. Which means that the association between Chancroid and HIV is much higher in some countries than in others. And in Thailand, Chancroid probably is much more common than is HIV.

I see a lot of people posting about how great Tulip massage is but what worries me is they use massage oil as a lubricant. It is widely known that massage oils destroy the latex in condoms. I read that just 60 seconds after exposure to mineral oil (the carrier oil in most massage oils), latex condoms were 90% less effective. The only way around this is to use a non-latex condom like Durex Aventi or Trojan Supra. Does anyone know if non-latex condoms are sold in Thailand? I can't find them anywhere. Also perhaps Tulip customers could educate the mamasan and girls about the dangers of mixing oil with condoms.

[QUOTE=Dan7373]The blood test does make sense because the Chancroid sore can look similar to a Syphilis sore. And people can be infected with several STD's at the same time, including Syphilis and Chancroid.

If the Chancroid infection is common in Thailand. Then it's quite possible that doctors there don't do full and complete laboratory testing for it. They might just do a Syphilis blood test. And if it's negative. Then the doctor assumes it's probably Chancroid and treats it with antibiotics.

But any kind of sores increase the likelyhood of HIV transmission, even mechanical trauma and gonorrhea infection. There is nothing special about Chancroid in this regard, except for the fact that it causes sores which make it easier for HIV to be transmitted.

Chancroid is common in most tropical countries, whether they have high rates of HIV infection or not. Which means that the association between Chancroid and HIV is much higher in some countries than in others. And in Thailand, Chancroid probably is much more common than is HIV.[/QUOTE]Dan7373,

Thank you both for your support and information. In this particular case, I went to Bangkok Hospital and requested that the attending physician test for every type of STD/HIV, just to rule out all variables. And I spoke to their public health representative, another physican, who stated that chanchroid is prevelant here but that many tourists, when they return to Europe or North America, get misdiagnosed because chanchroid is not indigenous there. But in this day and age, air transportation definitely makes the world smaller.

I know a bar girl, who is hot, beautiful, funny and we have a good connection. The problem is that her pussy has a bad odor. First time I see something like this with a bar girl.

Also, it seems she uses some kind of lubricant.

Last time I told her and said her to get a good shower, but the odor was still there.

I've decided to stop meeting with her, but not sure if I'm being too radical. Also, it's a pity, it's really great to be with her.

What would you do?

[QUOTE=Mick Licker]Seems to be another name for "Glandular Fever".
Kissing is well known to be dangerous for catching various viruses from girls. Its generally significantly more dangerous than giving DATY for example.[/QUOTE]I have been thinking of this. Most (or many) girls give BBBJ and DFK, but always demand the use of condoms.

Is there any difference in risk if they allow CIM or not?

Are they just not aware of the risk of getting STD fron BBBJ?? or why do they act like this. It would be in their own interest not to catch anything that may keep them away from work, wouldn't it?

[QUOTE=Dextro Sol]Are they just not aware of the risk of getting STD fron BBBJ?? [/QUOTE]

Most these girls would fuck you bareback, all it takes is for you to ask nicely.
All you can do is protect yourself, that's all. Be careful.

[QUOTE=Dardo]I know a bar girl, who is hot, beautiful, funny and we have a good connection. The problem is that her pussy has a bad odor. First time I see something like this with a bar girl.

Also, it seems she uses some kind of lubricant.

Last time I told her and said her to get a good shower, but the odor was still there.

I've decided to stop meeting with her, but not sure if I'm being too radical. Also, it's a pity, it's really great to be with her.

What would you do?[/QUOTE]
She needs more than a good shower.

She has some kind of infection which is causing the odor, and until it is cleared up, the odor will remain.

I imagine that one visit to a Dr. and proper medication would solve the problem.

[QUOTE=Dextro Sol]I have been thinking of this. Most (or many) girls give BBBJ and DFK, but always demand the use of condoms.

Is there any difference in risk if they allow CIM or not?

Are they just not aware of the risk of getting STD fron BBBJ?? or why do they act like this. It would be in their own interest not to catch anything that may keep them away from work, wouldn't it?[/QUOTE]Sure there is a difference, although I'm sure they can get the usual infections just making BBBJ. This is specially risky with the MP girls, that seem to offer these services liberally.

Also, the most common of these infections can be carried on the throat so these girls can infect from customer to customer.

For them there is risk, but when the throat is infected, is very different to when the genital area is infected.

I used to have a girlfriend who worked at a MP, and it makes me feel sick thinking the time I spent kissing her. I just let her made me covered BJs.

Hello everyone,

I was reading a few pages back in the posts concerning size of the condoms in Thailand. 54mm, 52mm, 49mm and so on. Is this in reference to the length of the condom or the circumference? When I use any condom here in Asia they all seem very tight and after awhile my pecker goes soft on me and turns a bit blue! In the states I use Durex and all is fine? When I am in Thailand I buy my own rubbers (Durex), I do not use the ones supplied by the ladies.

Does anyone have any suggestions for me on this?

Play safe

Slylock

[QUOTE=Slylock]Hello everyone,

I was reading a few pages back in the posts concerning size of the condoms in Thailand. 54mm, 52mm, 49mm and so on. Is this in reference to the length of the condom or the circumference? When I use any condom here in Asia they all seem very tight and after awhile my pecker goes soft on me and turns a bit blue! In the states I use Durex and all is fine? When I am in Thailand I buy my own rubbers (Durex), I do not use the ones supplied by the ladies.

Does anyone have any suggestions for me on this?

Play safe

Slylock[/QUOTE]
Bring your own condoms!

[QUOTE=Slylock]Hello everyone,

I was reading a few pages back in the posts concerning size of the condoms in Thailand. 54mm, 52mm, 49mm and so on. Is this in reference to the length of the condom or the circumference? When I use any condom here in Asia they all seem very tight and after awhile my pecker goes soft on me and turns a bit blue! In the states I use Durex and all is fine? When I am in Thailand I buy my own rubbers (Durex), I do not use the ones supplied by the ladies.

Does anyone have any suggestions for me on this?

Play safe

Slylock[/QUOTE]

Mick posted a report on condoms a while back so you can do a search.
It is best to indeed bring your own condoms.

49mm are too small (tight)
52mm are Average
54mm are good
56mm are a bit large

Boots Stores usually have a wide variety of condoms so just go there and ask, or even betterm bring some with you from your country

[QUOTE=NicFrenchy]Mick posted a report on condoms a while back so you can do a search.

It is best to indeed bring your own condoms.

49mm are too small (tight)
52mm are Average
54mm are good
56mm are a bit large

Boots Stores usually have a wide variety of condoms so just go there and ask, or even better bring some with you from your country[/QUOTE]That is the report I am talking about. What I do not understand is, if the measurements concern the length or how big around they are.

I will of course try the larger size ones when I am up there.

Vitto, condoms are the same in Malaysia! And since I only monger in Thailand I don't buy condoms in Malaysia, the wife doesn't like 'them.

Thanks to everyone for the help!

Slylock

[QUOTE=NicFrenchy]Boots Stores usually have a wide variety of condoms so just go there and ask, or even betterm bring some with you from your country[/QUOTE]
Do you think you can go to back room and try them, like happened when you hurt your dick?

LOL

"What I do not understand is, if the measurements concern the length....."
at these units:

49mm are too small (tight)
52mm are Average
54mm are good
56mm are a bit large

sorry not going to name the posters, but baahaahaaahaaaa!
maybe the original poster meant these units to be cm! ;)

[QUOTE=Dextro Sol]Do you think you can go to back room and try them, like happened when you hurt your dick?

LOL[/QUOTE]

Hahaha, I doubt the lady will like me opening the boxes to try them out and besides... I need to be erect to try condoms so she would have to apply some "mouth magic" to help me get there. :D

[QUOTE=MilesToGo]sorry not going to name the posters, but baahaahaaahaaaa!
maybe the original poster meant these units to be cm! ;)[/QUOTE]Hi MilesToGo,

I do not use the metric system all that often, and when I do it is usually in Meters or Kilometers. Now as I understand it 10mm = 1 cm? so 56mm would be 5.6cm? 2.5cm = 1 inch. So 5.6 cm would be roughly 2.2 Inches? Now when you unwrap a condom they are Usually 9 inches long. In the US a condom averages 3 inches in circumference. So I assumed the 56mm would be the circumference or is it the diameter? But to me that seems a little small. So I was just asking for clarification. If the biggest size is 2.2 inches there is no way it will fit me and I would need to ask friends to send me some from the US, hopefully they will get past customs! So as you can see it is confusing for this Yank! All these years I have suffered and I just wanted a little help to understand these things.

Thanks everyone,

Slylock

[QUOTE=Slylock]Hi MilesToGo,

I do not use the metric system all that often, and when I do it is usually in Meters or Kilometers. Now as I understand it 10mm = 1 cm? so 56mm would be 5.6cm? 2.5cm = 1 inch. So 5.6 cm would be roughly 2.2 Inches? Now when you unwrap a condom they are Usually 9 inches long. In the US a condom averages 3 inches in circumference. So I assumed the 56mm would be the circumference or is it the diameter? But to me that seems a little small. So I was just asking for clarification. If the biggest size is 2.2 inches there is no way it will fit me and I would need to ask friends to send me some from the US, hopefully they will get past customs! So as you can see it is confusing for this Yank! All these years I have suffered and I just wanted a little help to understand these things.

Thanks everyone,

Slylock[/QUOTE]

Bring your own condoms from America adn get it over with.
If you take this long to think about rubbers, then what will it be when you'll be here trying to choose girls? :D

[QUOTE=Slylock]Hi MilesToGo,

I do not use the metric system all that often, and when I do it is usually in Meters or Kilometers. Now as I understand it 10mm = 1 cm? so 56mm would be 5.6cm? 2.5cm = 1 inch. So 5.6 cm would be roughly 2.2 Inches? Now when you unwrap a condom they are Usually 9 inches long. In the US a condom averages 3 inches in circumference. So I assumed the 56mm would be the circumference or is it the diameter? But to me that seems a little small. So I was just asking for clarification. If the biggest size is 2.2 inches there is no way it will fit me and I would need to ask friends to send me some from the US, hopefully they will get past customs! So as you can see it is confusing for this Yank! All these years I have suffered and I just wanted a little help to understand these things.

Thanks everyone,

Slylock[/QUOTE]It's even more complicated than that. 56 mm = 2 13/64 (Does anyone start to understand why metric is so much easier) Inches, which is the width that is defined by half the circumference. So the circumference of a 56 mm condom is 4 13/32 Inches.

The length is between 178 mm (standard size, 52 mm width) and 205 mm (large, 56 mm width)

@MilesToGo: we are not talking about condoms fitting horses.

[QUOTE=Tiger 888].....cut....
MilesToGo: we are not talking about condoms fitting horses.[/QUOTE]

Sly & tiger,
didn't mean to insult anybody here, just having some fun :)

btw: sly - I am your northerly neighbor, not the first time you guys have trouble with these units, took us a while too!

[QUOTE=MilesToGo]Sly & tiger,
didn't mean to insult anybody here, just having some fun :)

btw: sly - I am your northerly neighbor, not the first time you guys have trouble with these units, took us a while too![/QUOTE]I didn't take it as that, just wanted to make a joke.

[QUOTE=MilesToGo]Sly & tiger,
didn't mean to insult anybody here, just having some fun :)

btw: sly - I am your northerly neighbor, not the first time you guys have trouble with these units, took us a while too![/QUOTE]

I found all of this a little confusing you know! So I said to hell with the name brand stuff and decided to make my own condom! Here are the instructions!

1) 30 count medium size garbage bag.
2) 1 roll Duct tape.
3) 1 can of axle grease.

Remove one (1) garbage bag, slide it over your penis. Tape the bottom of the bag tight, but not to tight, to the base of your penis. Apply axle grease as needed!

This DIY technique will work for all size penises. It does not require any skill in understanding the Metric or Standard system. Nor does it require a course in ISO for condom manufacturing. As this system provides 30 'condoms' for 250 Baht it is also much cheaper then the standard condoms offered.

Patent pending

Slylock

[QUOTE=Slylock]Patent pending[/QUOTE]

What got into your water this morning? :D :D

[QUOTE=NicFrenchy]What got into your water this morning? :D :D[/QUOTE]

Nothing! I am proud to say that my "super slide and glide" (TM) condom is 100% water proof! :D

What brands of polyurethane condoms (non latex, i.e. baby oil resistent) are available in Thailand and where?
Durex Avanti have apparently been pulled off the market and I have not seen any of the other brands in 7/11 stores.

[QUOTE=Soap Fan]...But condoms are not just for prevention of HIV. I don't want to get Chlamydia (again), Genital warts or any of the very easy things to catch...[/QUOTE]
I'm no doctor, but it's my understanding that condoms will not necessarily protect you from genital warts or other nastiness resulting from infected vaginal fluids contacting the scrotum or base of the penis.

[QUOTE=Daddy07]I'm no doctor, but it's my understanding that condoms will not necessarily protect you from genital warts or other nastiness resulting from infected vaginal fluids contacting the scrotum or base of the penis.[/QUOTE]
Sure but better than nothing. I am not ready to give up sex entirely

Daddy07,

You can get warts on the base of your penis just from a HJ, if the provider has them on her hands. Thirty years ago I got them at a AMP, and they hurt like hell getting them off, I nearly pissed on the Doctor while he was removing them.

No matter how good it feels and how tempting she wants you inside without one always cover up!

LBM

[QUOTE=LittleBigMan]

You can get warts on the base of your penis just from a HJ, if the provider has them on her hands. Thirty years ago I got them at a AMP, and they hurt like hell getting them off, I nearly pissed on the Doctor while he was removing them.

LBM

[/QUOTE]

25 years ago, doctor used liquid nitrogen on mine and it felt like to was burning but was just so cold. The doc had a firm grip on my foreskin so I could not get away. He did a good job and I only needed one treatment.

Slim

[QUOTE=Daddy07]I'm no doctor, but it's my understanding that condoms will not necessarily protect you from genital warts or other nastiness resulting from infected vaginal fluids contacting the scrotum or base of the penis.[/QUOTE]I always tell new people that are interested in getting into this hobby that it has it risks. There is a possibility you could catch something that will kill you, let alone a wart. I always glove up, but in my hundreds of sessions I have had at least six condoms break or come off, maybe more. Even if you are very safe, there is no guarantee.

Nyslim,

We must had the same doctor! The first time I had them removed one came back a year later. He said when they are real small it is hard to get them all so this time he reached for a stainless steel themos and place the biggest Q-tip I ever saw inside and place a big drop on LBM, like I said it burns and it's a slow burn that weakens the knee! Not being shy at all this doctor also taught at the UC medical center and just happen to have a group of students in his office that day. Asked if it was o.k. if his students watch and I said WTF o.k. and with some luck they happen to be all women students and each got to take a good look and touch LBM. The liquid Nitro worked never came back to this day thank god!

[QUOTE=DRRonin]
I think you may be missing the point that some of us want to make. I could care less about the health of Bangkok Banger - he knows the risks and if he gets something so be it. I do care though about the girls he may be infecting. To go to 3rd world countries where you can often easily convince girls with no means, rent coming due and a fifth grade education to let you cum inside of them to me is just about as low as you can get. Sexual imperialism. Sure I know people like BB figure they are just prostitutes - born victims - so who cares about them - they deserve what they get - but some of us don't feel that way and actually are fond of a lot of these girls.[/QUOTE]

You may also be missing my points good DR. Not sure you can speak for "some of us" but let's take your "concerned for the girls" as being the reason you responded even though in your original response you sounded almost naive in stating:
[QUOTE=DRRonin] What has actually surprised me over here lately are the number of guys who will only go bb and seem to think they are invulnerable and don't give two hoots about the girls. .[/QUOTE]
The number of guys overtly spouting off about it may surprise you but in no way should you think there is any increase in guys engaging in BB sex because they are now openly discussing it. The high sexual transmission disease rates here should be an indicator to you that BB sex does occur at a high rate even when it's not being openly discussed. This should not be a surprise to you. It happens and guys like BB whatever his motivation for engaging in BB sex will not be deterred by anonymous excoriation or name calling on a sex board.
[QUOTE=DRRonin]If they are bbing with you, you can bet they are doing it with loads of other guys. [/QUOTE]

They are already doing it with loads of other guys and will continue to doing it with others. We know this from the HIV/STD rates for Thailand.

[QUOTE=DRRonin]
To go to 3rd world countries where you can often easily convince girls with no means, rent coming due and a fifth grade education to let you cum inside of them to me is just about as low as you can get[/QUOTE]

The girls engaging in BB sex are not only uneducated hookers; the general population is doing it too. I think you would have better luck starting a program that provided alternatives or educate the girls about the risks of BB sex than changing the view of any adult male on this board who is on a BB mission especially in the manner you replied to him. As I wrote in my post, I don't condone his BB approach but I did not see one response to him that would in any way deter him from his BB quest. In fact most of the replies he received would only serve to antagonize him; they certainly would not give him any pause. For good guys like you, the best thing you can do is cover up and be aware that there is some probability that the next girl you pick up, she has engaged in BB sex with someone before and she very well may be infected. Good Luck!

Run Mann,

Your are very correct about what is being said. I don't believe Bangkok Banger is out to hurt anyone and nothing anyone say is going to change his mind.

But everytime he opens his mouth, like his last post on the Bangkok Thread, his reference that he has been tested and cleared so it's O.K. nearly drove me up the wall. I wonder before he put his dick into every women that allow him bareback had papers from legit hospital showing clearance.

I will only say you hear what you want to hear for these girls when the little head is doing the thinking. I personally would have lots and lots of doubt when a women tells me she gets tested regularly and from where you picked her up or where she works she barely can afford a outfit?

Personally I going to skip any post I see with his name!

LBM

[QUOTE=LittleBigMan]Run Mann,

Your are very correct about what is being said. I don't believe Bangkok Banger is out to hurt anyone and nothing anyone say is going to change his mind.

But everytime he opens his mouth, like his last post on the Bangkok Thread, his reference that he has been tested and cleared so it's O.K. nearly drove me up the wall. I wonder before he put his dick into every women that allow him bareback had papers from legit hospital showing clearance.

I will only say you hear what you want to hear for these girls when the little head is doing the thinking. I personally would have lots and lots of doubt when a women tells me she gets tested regularly and from where you picked her up or where she works she barely can afford a outfit?

Personally I going to skip any post I see with his name!

LBM[/QUOTE]

I understand, and those are some good points LBM, but you can only control the things you can control and since the ones in control of this situation are BB and others like him, you just have to let it go.

I know this sounds harsh, judgemental and may upset some.

I believe that anyone who goes BB in Thailand or any high profile P4P destination, should be incarcerated.

Think of it this way: You may be obtaining a deadly disease, then continue going BB on your trip with the possibility that you are not only passing this disease to girls, but to other mongers. You are thinking in your mind: Gee, I may have caught something from her, but I don't care, I just want to have fun.

There is a chance your actions may eventually kill someone, or multiple people. People are put into prison or called mentally I'll with this type of thinking.

Anyone one on this site that tells people after reporting they went BB, " Hey great report, glad you had a good time" is adding fuel to the fire.

In my opinion, Bareback reporters should be banned from this site and referred to counseling.

[QUOTE=Rim Luver]I know this sounds harsh, judgemental and may upset some.

In my opinion, Bareback reporters should be banned from this site and referred to counseling.[/QUOTE]

Not at all dude - go for it! I think we can say that your viewpoint is in the majority (dare we say a 'moral' majority?) here.

In any case, clean things up around here - and why stop at barebackers? As I understand it prostitution is illegal in many of our homelands, so it would probably be best to ban chatter about [i]that[/i] abomination as well.

My only caveat would be to point out that just because the very bad, naughty men are not reporting doesn't mean they've stopped their diabolical practices.

[QUOTE=Opebo]My only caveat would be to point out that just because the very bad, naughty men are not reporting doesn't mean they've stopped their diabolical practices.[/QUOTE]

THAT is true. BB will always exist and while I really hate it, the only thing I can do is to try my best to protect myself.

[QUOTE=Rim Luver]...I believe that anyone who goes BB in Thailand or any high profile P4P destination, should be incarcerated...

...In my opinion, Bareback reporters should be banned from this site and referred to counseling.[/QUOTE]
And perhaps you ought to start longterm psycological treatment therapy for your chronic sadistic hysteria reaction syndrome.

We are all right and we are all wrong! But remember what Bangkok Banger said
" he's got papers to prove it when he goes bareback and he's infertile " although he can't be sure as the the girls don't have papers!

I play it safe! Go thin and go in!

LBM

[QUOTE=Rim Luver]I know this sounds harsh, judgemental and may upset some.

I believe that anyone who goes BB in Thailand or any high profile P4P destination, should be incarcerated.
[/QUOTE]

Since this won't happen anytime soon, what's would be your other immediate solution?

[QUOTE=Rim Luver]
There is a chance your actions may eventually kill someone, or multiple people. People are put into prison or called mentally I'll with this type of thinking.

Anyone one on this site that tells people after reporting they went BB, " Hey great report, glad you had a good time" is adding fuel to the fire.

In my opinion, Bareback reporters should be banned from this site and referred to counseling.[/QUOTE]
If someone wants to engage in unsafe sex, he should be allowed to report on this forum about it. Let's face it, condoms suck! He who has the balls to bareback it with a ho, gets my respect! I just don't have the balls yet, but I am tempted to every time.

[QUOTE=Amjeck] He who has the balls to bareback it with a ho, gets my respect! I just don't have the balls yet, but I am tempted to every time.[/QUOTE]

IMHO it don't take balls to bareback, just dangerous recklessness. The balls bit comes in how you handle it when you get your positive result.

"But everytime he opens his mouth, like his last post on the Bangkok Thread, his reference that he has been tested and cleared so it's O.K. nearly drove me up the wall. I wonder before he put his dick into every women that allow him bareback had papers from legit hospital showing clearance."

I really HATE these flame wars, but I can't let this dearth of logic go without comment!

So, just ONE question: I wonder before YOU put your COVERED dick into every woman that allowed COVERED SEX, if she or you had the condom tested for leaks, tears, defects, and flaws?

Did the box of rubbers come with a warranty? And are you aware of the statistics regarding condom failure? Just wondering!

But I guess the old saying is true--opinions are like assholes--everybody's got one!

[QUOTE=Bangkok Banger]But I guess the old saying is true--opinions are like assholes--everybody's got one![/QUOTE]

Well you got that one right! :D

Look, for BB sex in Bangkok you can walk just about anyplace and most girls will offer it. I know that many members will get upset at this but after 4 years of mongering, I have yet to find a girl that will categorically refuse BB sex.

Many will just go on with the sex without even asking for a rubber (and save money maybe?)

The ladies you ask about BB sex will either say yes or ask for more money.

I need to say though that some have refused. I was happy to hear that.

Bangkok Banger,

So that no one needs to RTFF, the guy he was referencing about opening his big mouth was made by me LBM!


You got one thing right and that is if you go to the mirror and turn to your backside you will see you are one of us!

You just confirm my statement. And when it comes to this particular topic you just continue to stick your big foot into your big mouth! The problems as I have stated isn't so much that you raise your head proudly that you do bareback and I do give you credit for that. And if you are man enough to do that then don't continue to change your handle thinking you are going to get more favorable feedback. And as you continue to use childish and warp logic to justify your behavior like " I got tested with papers and you don't and I'm infertile " if that was true I pay whatever it takes so to get infertile this way I can go bareback myself and be immune to the disease!

I'm from San Francisco, and that itself should tell you something about HIV/AIDS! Although I'm not gay or Bi, I have family who are gay. Have you ever been around a person or friend that has AIDS? In the early 80'S when the disease was still at the unknown stages I was working with a Airline and working along side me were some great guys and hard workers but I didn't know they were gay. One day many of them started calling in sick, some were coming in with weigh lost and marks on their faces. Everyone just though they had the flu, Hep, Mono or some blood disordered. Then the funeral annoucements started coming in. Time later, as the disease was spreading and researches term it HIV/AIDS. Watching a friend or co-worker slowly die isn't pretty. I wish this on no one not even my sister-law who I hate and I don't wish it on you although nothing I'm going to say is going to change the dangerous path you are going down.

I will answer your question about condoms. Although I didn't do the test myself just like you didn't do your HIV/AIDS test. I added that in because you think like a child! Yes! they have been tested over and over for leaks etc... and although they aren't perfect but researcher and makers are improving them daily. Being a betting man even if I go with your statistics I have 85% better chance than you going bareback! and every doctor on this face of this earth will standby me! Unless he or she is stupid? Of course you're thinking this minute LBM you full of shit!

I looked something up for you and if you are in Pattaya now or whenever go see this Doctor in Jomtien who spoke in Feb of this year at the PattayaExpatsclub who is a expert in HIV/AIDS in Thailand. Doctor Philippe Seur is his name and he has a clinic in Jomtien in Pattaya and head up a project called Heartt2000. That itself should tell you how vast and growing the problem is in Thailand although the Thai Government wouldn't come out and admit it. I don't have the exact address but if you check the website [url]www.pattayaexpatsclub.com[/url] and contact them they will give you a address or phone number. Let me know if you have the fortitude to visit him so I can meet you there and we can all have a good laugh at your logic with papers, condoms, and being infertile.

Regardless I wish you health and wealth so that you can come up with a cure so we can all go bareback. I do miss it just talking about it!

LBM

[QUOTE=NicFrenchy]Many will just go on with the sex without even asking for a rubber (and save money maybe?)[/QUOTE]

Many girls will go BB to get a long term sponsor... some warped sense that this is what all guys want and they pretend they don't do it with everyone or every other guy and that you are the only one they go BB with etc...

Funny thing is that guys fall for it over and over and over.... And I'll admit I've been caught a time or two but NEVER with a one night pick up BG or SW or such... But an occasional past repeat I will admit I got wrapped up in the moments and got my willy in the wrong place in the past.

BB happens all the time unfortunately and it's very easy to go BB in MP's even. What surprised me in my experience (only my POV) is that girls from free lance places like Beer Garden or such are more adamant about protection then girls from like higher class places.

And then... there are... the real low lifes, as far as I'm concerned.

Bumbed into a friend of mine who was having lunch and sitting around with a bunch of guys just shooting the bull. Then one guy piped in and announced proudly how he gets to Bare Back his gals.

He would always have baby oil around when he gets a gal and tell her to first stimulate him by hand stroking him using the baby oil. These unsuspecting gals wouldn't think nothing of it and slather on the oil as that is indeed the modus operandi at the Hand-Job places. He would then put on the condom and again ask the gal to put more baby oil on the rubber as a lubricant.

This asshole proudly told everybody present that using this method, at least 50% of the time he gets to bare back the gal as the condom would break inside of her. My God - what a low life.

Why am I relating this here?? OK, granted it probably will give some of the less than salubrious members here further ammunition in their quest for BB'ing one and all sundry WG's. But I also think that if enough of us go out there and warn the gals we are with about this low life trick, that we could make a bit of difference.

So guys - go out there and tell your gals!!

SEAJ

[QUOTE=SE Asia Joe]...This asshole proudly told everybody present that using this method, at least 50% of the time he gets to bare back the gal as the condom would break inside of her...[/QUOTE]
I can't imagine what fun he can get out of that. He's still going to have a broken condom fastened and now flopping around on his dick, which seems to me would feel worse than an unbroken one.

Going bb is really easy. I know tons of guys and gals do it all the time. Also, the level of knowledge concerning STDs among the average monger is pretty low. It is a crap shoot but the odds favor the guys.

Long ago, the army advised us to drink lots of water and flap our dicks around afterwards. These primitive methods, said to horny grunts, do control the risks to a degree.

When we consider the size of Boyztown and that lots of the gays and TGS are also sleeping with the bargirls and lots of the Boyztown Johns are getting it up the ass and are doing our bar girls as well, the crap shoot odds become harder to calculate.

Personally, I like to bb but I am always a little nervous. All winning streaks do end. And I don't want to end that way.

And if even a hand job can give us warts, what is left?

[QUOTE=The Departed]
And if even a hand job can give us warts, what is left?[/QUOTE]

Wet dreams?

[QUOTE=SE Asia Joe]...OK, granted it probably will give some of the less than salubrious members here further ammunition in their quest for BB'ing one and all sundry WG's.[/QUOTE]

Its an old trick, but in my experience nearly all girls know that baby oil or massage oil - oils in general - are damaging to condoms.

[QUOTE=SE Asia Joe]OK, granted it probably will give some of the less than salubrious members here further ammunition in their quest for BB'ing one and all sundry WG's. [/QUOTE]Joe, this is friendly fire, isnt' it. Low life Dr. HIV Self Infect Bareback Opebo just proved it.

[QUOTE=The Departed]

And if even a hand job can give us warts, what is left?[/QUOTE]
Where's the proof in this? Maybe if she touches her pussy first then immediately touches your cock after.

[QUOTE=Opebo]Its an old trick, but in my experience nearly all girls know that baby oil or massage oil - oils in general - are damaging to condoms.[/QUOTE]

That is yet to be proven because in my neck of the woods (lower sukh area), most massage ladies actually want to use Oil as a lube because Farang dick is too big.

I almost never get to the massage part so when she grabs the oil, it isn't to rub it on my shoulders ;)

Amjeck,

Where is the proof in this?

Go to [url]www.webmd.com[/url] and reference HPV/Warts.

LBM

[QUOTE=NicFrenchy]That is yet to be proven because in my neck of the woods (lower sukh area), most massage ladies actually want to use Oil as a lube because Farang dick is too big.[/QUOTE]

Yeah but as you have pointed out before, many of the ladies don't really care about the condom. I think they know the oil damages it but don't particularly mind. However I have met a lot of girls who keep K-Y or the equivalent on hand for lubrication, regardless of condom usage.

One interesting anecdote - a girl I was with the other day was complaining that some guy had 'effed me for two hours, he ask for condom, condom make me have no water'. She said that when guys use condoms it greatly reduces her natural lubrication, but that its no problem if the guy is reasonably quick. She said that about half use and half don't use those rubber implements.

[QUOTE=LittleBigMan]Amjeck,

Where is the proof in this?

Go to [url]www.webmd.com[/url] and reference HPV/Warts.

LBM[/QUOTE]
Find a better link that says "hpv can be spread from a hj". Hpv doesn't grow on peoples hands, from my understanding. As I said before, maybe if she touches her wart infested snatch then touches your cock, then transmission could occur.

[QUOTE=Opebo]Yeah but as you have pointed out before, many of the ladies don't really care about the condom. I think they know the oil damages it but don't particularly mind. However I have met a lot of girls who keep K-Y or the equivalent on hand for lubrication, regardless of condom usage.

One interesting anecdote - a girl I was with the other day was complaining that some guy had 'effed me for two hours, he ask for condom, condom make me have no water'. She said that when guys use condoms it greatly reduces her natural lubrication, but that its no problem if the guy is reasonably quick. She said that about half use and half don't use those rubber implements.[/QUOTE]

I think you are right.... they know but don't particularly mind

Amjec,

It's pretty reliable website! Typical medical Journal stuff. What you want? a playboy addition story as to exactly how it is transmitted. Put it together man! Look at my posting 4-16.

Is it impossible for a women to " touch her wart infested snatch " while she is giving me a massage with her hand and then gives me a hand job? would you then say " transmission " has occurred?

Since it is possible to get wart infected on your balls or penis would you say that "transmission" can't be possible unless I scratch my balls and stroke my penis and then decided to finger fuck my mate?

LBM

[QUOTE=LittleBigMan]Amjec,

It's pretty reliable website! Typical medical Journal stuff. What you want?

LBM[/QUOTE]
I want a link to an actual article that case studies transmission of hpv from a hand to a penis.

If you can provide that, great. If not, then I have my doubts. Thanks.

[QUOTE=Amjeck]Find a better link that says "hpv can be spread from a hj". Hpv doesn't grow on peoples hands, from my understanding. As I said before, maybe if she touches her wart infested snatch then touches your cock, then transmission could occur.[/QUOTE]

Amjeck,

I understand that you have doubts but I merely answer your question and gave you a scenero how the wart can be transmitted from her " snatch then touches your cock, then transmission could occur " once transmission occurs that's when it grows.

It you searched around the site you would have read that warts can grow on the hands and feet. I will do my best to try to find a case study but lets be realistic here a case study on warts from a handjob. Who the fuck is going to fund something as stupid as that unless they are sick like us?

I can only tell you my own experience about warts. I didn't even know it until I ended up in Nevada, Cotton tail Ranch one evening after skiing with some friends. The girl check out my dick and pointed it out to me and I didn't know. She told me no BBBJ., and I had to be covered. This was the first time I was going to have FS, since my divorce and prior to that I had only visited a Asian Massage Parlor, and gotten oil massage with a HJ.

When I found out I went to a Doctor to have it look at and removed. He then told me have I been having sex with anyone in particular and I basically told him what I have been doing between being separated from my wife and now and he was the one that told me based on the information I gave him that
it was the method of transmission and once I was infected the warts start to grown on my penis area. Never thought about it until now.

LBM

returned about four weeks ago from philippines and and short stay in bkk. very soon my right eye got severily infected and then also left eye. eye doctor prescribed eye drops with antibiotics and antibiotics as pills for seven days. she said that the infection might have been caused by chlamydia.

two weeks later my foreskin got painful because of wounding so i went to doctors again. this morning numerous blood and a [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord109][CodeWord109][/url] sample was taken. also bacteria growth will be analyzed. they are checking for syphilis, chlamydia, gonorrhoea, hepatitis, herpes and hiv.

in one and half weeks i will know what i won. it may not be std but until then i will not sleep that well. i wore condom with every penetration but did daty and fingering unprotected. all bjs were owo. i wonder if one can get std rubbing eye with finger carrying germs...

This discussion reminds me of a very old joke about a mother taking her teenage daugter to the doctor, who diagnoses genital warts.
The very indignant mother asks the doctor: "Could my daughter have gotten infected in a public toilet?"
Wherupon the doctor thinks a while and finally annwers: " ....yes, it is possible, but it must have been damned uncomfortable..."

[QUOTE=LittleBigMan]Amjeck,

I will do my best to try to find a case study but lets be realistic here a case study on warts from a handjob. [/QUOTE]
Nah, not worth it unless you're bored.

Warts are no big deal really. They kill women not men.

[quote=white whale]returned about four weeks ago from philippines and and short stay in bkk. very soon my right eye got severily infected and then also left eye. eye doctor prescribed eye drops with antibiotics and antibiotics as pills for seven days. she said that the infection might have been caused by chlamydia.

two weeks later my foreskin got painful because of wounding so i went to doctors again. this morning numerous blood and a [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord109][CodeWord109][/url] sample was taken. also bacteria growth will be analyzed. they are checking for syphilis, chlamydia, gonorrhoea, hepatitis, herpes and hiv.

in one and half weeks i will know what i won. it may not be std but until then i will not sleep that well. i wore condom with every penetration but did daty and fingering unprotected. all bjs were owo. i wonder if one can get std rubbing eye with finger carrying germs...[/quote]
absolutely.
i can confirm catching chlamydia in the eye from fingering and then not washing hands immediately. zithromax fixed it.

[QUOTE=White Whale]Returned about four weeks ago from Philippines and and short stay in Bkk. Very soon my right eye got severily infected and then also left eye. Eye doctor prescribed eye drops with antibiotics and antibiotics as pills for seven days. She said that the infection might have been caused by chlamydia.[/QUOTE]

Isn't it what they call the Pink Eye?

[QUOTE=Amjeck] Warts are no big deal really. They kill women not men.[/QUOTE]

Except when they are not treated and turn cancerous! Very rare but possible. 1,500 men were diagnosed with penile cancer in the US in 2006 and presumably lost a large chunk (or all) of their prized possession:eek:

Actually HPV, the virus that causes penile warts, is quite common in men but frequently just hides in the system (like herpes virus but less virulent) and seldom causes any problem except when the immune system is severely compromised. So many guys have it and just don't know it.

If you get an odd wart or two and catch them early enough, salicylic acid (the stuff they make aspirin out of) or Podofilox applied topically will often kill the little blighters. Otherwise its cryotherapy.

I think that you would have to be very unlucky (the inverse of winning the lottery) or careless to get any STD from a handjob.

Dr G:D

I had not suffered the gonorrhea/chlamydia/urethritus ailment in a long while, but recently picked it up in Pattaya. I tried Cefspan (400mg) instead of azithromycin on the recommendation of a pharmacist. Cefspan contains cefixime. I just took it yesterday and while it knocked the infection back prodigiously, I can't tell yet if the cure is permanent.

Have any of your mongers had experience with oral Cefspan?

[QUOTE=Opebo]I had not suffered the gonorrhea/chlamydia/urethritus ailment in a long while, but recently picked it up in Pattaya. I tried Cefspan (400mg) instead of azithromycin on the recommendation of a pharmacist. Cefspan contains cefixime. I just took it yesterday and while it knocked the infection back prodigiously, I can't tell yet if the cure is permanent.

Have any of your mongers had experience with oral Cefspan?[/QUOTE]Cefspan (oral cephiximine) will, in single 400 mg dose, generally cure gonorrhea that is resistant to other antibiotics. But do you know the time-frame when you picked it up? The incubation period for gonorrhea is often quite different from non-gonnococcal infections.

[QUOTE=Opebo] I tried Cefspan (400mg) instead of azithromycin on the recommendation of a pharmacist. [/QUOTE]
I've found pharmacists in Thailand not to be very smart. If your symptoms don't clear up, go see a doc. You may need injections.

Dear Sir,

During your trip to Isaan you must have saved a fortune on condoms. I have to admit that farang sized condoms are quite expensive, but doctors are cheap. Last time I stayed in Pattaya, the bill in the best hospital ran up to just 1200 THB, including medicine and there were so many pretty nurses.

[QUOTE=Opebo]I had not suffered the gonorrhea/chlamydia/urethritus ailment in a long while, but recently picked it up in Pattaya. I tried Cefspan (400mg) instead of azithromycin on the recommendation of a pharmacist. Cefspan contains cefixime. I just took it yesterday and while it knocked the infection back prodigiously, I can't tell yet if the cure is permanent.

Have any of your mongers had experience with oral Cefspan?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Amjeck]I've found pharmacists in Thailand not to be very smart. If your symptoms don't clear up, go see a doc. You may need injections.[/QUOTE]

Cefspan appears to have worked, thank you Amjeck. Basically the same stuff as in the injections. Usually I rely on azithromycin which is pretty foolproof. Actually the pharmacist had suggested taking both the Cefspand and azithromycin to kill [i]everything[/i], but I didn't want to spend the money or deal with a tummy-ache!

Elya Health and Nutrition Clinic

I stumbled across this place while walking around Sukhumvit this afternoon. It's a health and nutrition clinic near the corner of Soi 5, and they do full STD testing. I had the pinprick on my finger for the HIV blood test, went shopping and came back 15 minutes later, to my 'negative' result. I asked them what happens when a result comes up positive. They told me they take the 'positive patients' upstairs to the doctor for a confirmation test and counselling. They said they don't report positive cases to the authorities.

It's an anonymous and friendly service - they ask for a name, but you can give a false name, as they don't ask for ID. They gave me a "HIV-negative" certificate with my psuedonym on it. I told the flirty nurse "I don't need it - or should I show it to my wife?" and she giggled.

The test costs 1,000Baht, but you can ask for the "Opebo Special" - a book of 20 vouchers for 20% discount.

Speaking of anonymous testing, I finally got around to checking out the Red Cross Anonymous Clinic (คลีนิคนิรนาม = Khliinik Niranaam). It's on Ratdamri Rd. near the intersection with Sarasin, built between the two big water towers. Cheap (B200), quick, friendly, and professional.

While waiting for my results I got a bit of a reality check: talked to a couple HIV+ Thai guys who come their for their monthly viral load and other tests. There but for the grace of God . . . .

It needs to be said again: there's really no downside to getting tested, especially at a place like this. If you're negative, as I was, it's a relief, and good motivation to be even more careful in future. If positive, they're well set up for consultation and referral.

[QUOTE=Piper1]...The test costs 1,000Baht, but you can ask for the "Opebo Special" - a book of 20 vouchers for 20% discount.[/QUOTE]I believe Opebo doesn't need th testing. HIV doesn't make you drip. So why bother?

[QUOTE=Betong]Speaking of anonymous testing, I finally got around to checking out the Red Cross Anonymous Clinic (คลีนิคนิรนาม = Khliinik Niranaam). It's on Ratdamri Rd. near the intersection with Sarasin, built between the two big water towers. Cheap (B200), quick, friendly, and professional.

While waiting for my results I got a bit of a reality check... [Snip] [/QUOTE]


I assume you mean Thanon Ratchadamri.

How long did you have to wait for the results?

Is it Really anonymous (no report to the government if there's bad news)?

Thanks for the info!

GG

[QUOTE=Great Guy]I assume you mean Thanon Ratchadamri.[/QUOTE]That's the official pronunciation. Most Bangkokians just say Ratdamri.

Results took about 40 minutes.

They don't report to the government. They do of course compile statistics on their overall findings, since they're a research institute, but individual results are strictly confidential and anonymous. They give you a form on which you can provide as much or as little information as you want -- I left it mostly blank. They like to take a fingerprint which they claim is purely for internal use (understandable for legal liability and research reasons) but I think that's optional too.

They seem to take pride in their discretion, and seeing as how they've been operating since the early 1990s without any bad reports that I know of, I'd tend to trust them.

NIH Spends $178,000 to Study Why Prostitutes in Thailand Have High HIV Risk:

[url]http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/05/20/nih-spends-study-prostitutes-thailand-high-hiv-risk/[/url]

Read "The Wisdom of *****s" by Pisani. If you want to know all about HIV, etc. Great, informative book by a researcher.

[QUOTE=Dobinator1]NIH Spends $178,000 to Study Why Prostitutes in Thailand Have High HIV Risk:

[url]http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/05/20/nih-spends-study-prostitutes-thailand-high-hiv-risk/[/url][/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Dobinator1]NIH Spends $178,000 to Study Why Prostitutes in Thailand Have High HIV Risk:

[url]http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/05/20/nih-spends-study-prostitutes-thailand-high-hiv-risk/[/url][/QUOTE]


You have to wonder why they selected Thailand to do this study and what benefit the people paying the bill will gain. Probably also could be done for a less lot money.

Another knee-jerk response to the funding of scientific research. Gentlemen, $178,000 is a very tiny budget for such study, and anyway all such spending is beneficial in a Keynesian sense.

However, MY particular kneejerk response is this - that this sort of study is part of the American anti-sex campaign around the world. They want to shut down sex whereever it is still happening freely around the world, and Thailand is a major target.

I went for a full check on my return from LOS. All was clear but the doctor suggested I get Hep B immunisation. He told me I was flirting with Hep B which is prevalent in Thailand and the immunisation gives a high level of protection. You get three jabs over the course of three weeks.

[quote=white whale]returned about four weeks ago from philippines and and short stay in bkk. very soon my right eye got severily infected and then also left eye. eye doctor prescribed eye drops with antibiotics and antibiotics as pills for seven days. she said that the infection might have been caused by chlamydia.

two weeks later my foreskin got painful because of wounding so i went to doctors again. this morning numerous blood and a [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord109][CodeWord109][/url] sample was taken. also bacteria growth will be analyzed. they are checking for syphilis, chlamydia, gonorrhoea, hepatitis, herpes and hiv.

in one and half weeks i will know what i won. it may not be std but until then i will not sleep that well. i wore condom with every penetration but did daty and fingering unprotected. all bjs were owo. i wonder if one can get std rubbing eye with finger carrying germs...[/quote]

all tests came back negative. the foreskin problem must just have been wear and tear :)

just got my second shot for hepatitis b. third one still coming.

I may sound stupid by asking a question related to our favourite activity. But, better safe then stupid and better now then never. And hopefully my posting this report on this thread will enlighten me ........

I enjoy the the P4P scence because of the convenience and hassle free nature of it. However, I miss the GFE activities where I do my part such as kissing deep, cullinigus etc. But, in a P4P situation, I have always been cautious and always used condom and in foreplay only touching, licking, dry kissing of my lady. I mostly let the woman take care of things. But, this can be unfulfilling sometimes. I have seen many pictures here in the forum that shows our ISG members doing the above things i.e. french kissing, DATY, bareback 69 etc.

How far can I go in terms of foreplay when I am picking up a freelancer? I love Thai woman but I want to play it safe too.

Go to [url]www.webmd.com[/url]
Look for myths!
LBM

[QUOTE=Amjeck]Nah, not worth it unless you're bored.

Warts are no big deal really. They kill women not men.[/QUOTE]

Killing women sounds like a big deal to me. HPV, the virus that causes warts, increases your chances of getting oral/throat cancer, a lot.

For many years I always used azithromycin for treating gonorrhea, and I believe this is commonplace in Thailand as this medicament is always prominently displayed in pharmacies. However recently my local pharmacist recommended a one time dosage of 400 mg cefixime in addition to the 1 g one time dose of azithromycin. He seemed to suggest that the former was for gonorrhea and the latter for chlamydia, but he may also have meant that both have effectiveness for both ailments.

Last time (a couple of months ago) I used the cefixime only and it worked fine, without the upset stomach that goes with the azithromycin. Just the last few days I had another bout, which I have just treated with cefixime (Cefspan). I'll report back if the treatment doesn't work. Incidentally cefixime seems very difficult to find in Thai pharmacies, unlike azithromycine.

Reading the latest CDC information I could find it seems that organization has resolved that the cipro/norfloxacin route (fluoroquinolones) is no longer viable due to resistance, and thus it recommends the cephalosporin family only for treatment of gonorrhea (cefixime being the oral formulation).

What I'm wondering is - do you mongers reading here use mostly just azithromycin, or the combo of cefixime and azithromycin? Or cefixime alone? Or do most of you go for the shot in the ass at the doctor's office or hospital? Lastly does anyone know why the CDC recommends only cephalosporins and not azithromycin in light of fluoroquinolone resistance?

[QUOTE=Opebo]What I'm wondering is - do you mongers reading here use mostly just azithromycin, or the combo of cefixime and azithromycin? Or cefixime alone? Or do most of you go for the shot in the ass at the doctor's office or hospital? Lastly does anyone know why the CDC recommends only cephalosporins and not azithromycin in light of fluoroquinolone resistance?[/QUOTE]

It's been a while now (over two years) that Doctors should have changed their prescriptions from Cirpofloxacin, ofloxacin and levofloxacin because of the increasing resistance to N. gonorrheae to the fluoroquinolone drugs and only the cephalosporins are being recommended to treat gonorrheal infections.

Cehpalosporins can be (in common terms) claforan, keflex, keftabs, ceclor, mefoxin, ceptax, suprax. Surprisingly the change started to these medicines before everyone else in the Asia, Pacific Island, and California due to the resistance of the strains of gonorrheal infections in these regions. I think the recommended treatment changed officially for everyone in early 2007 due to the Gonococcal Isolate Surveillance Project.

For me, I go on a three type of antibiotic and rotate through the year (when needed not continually) but Keflex is my choice.

[QUOTE=Tansak KTV]...Doctors should have changed their prescriptions from Cirpofloxacin, ofloxacin and levofloxacin because of the increasing resistance to N. gonorrheae to the fluoroquinolone drugs and only the cephalosporins are being recommended to treat gonorrheal infections.[/quote]

Thanks for your prompt and useful response! I don't normally use doctors, but the majority of pharmacists in Thailand still recommend Ciprofloxacin or Norfloxacin. A few however know to recommend azithromycin and/or a cephalosporin.

[quote=Tansak KTV]For me, I go on a three type of antibiotic and rotate through the year (when needed not continually) but Keflex is my choice.[/QUOTE]

Just wondering why you prefer Keflex and how it is different from Cefspan?

[QUOTE=Tansak KTV]It's been a while now (over two years) that Doctors should have changed their prescriptions from Cirpofloxacin, ofloxacin and levofloxacin because of the increasing resistance to N. gonorrheae to the fluoroquinolone drugs and only the cephalosporins are being recommended to treat gonorrheal infections.

Cehpalosporins can be (in common terms) claforan, keflex, keftabs, ceclor, mefoxin, ceptax, suprax. Surprisingly the change started to these medicines before everyone else in the Asia, Pacific Island, and California due to the resistance of the strains of gonorrheal infections in these regions. I think the recommended treatment changed officially for everyone in early 2007 due to the Gonococcal Isolate Surveillance Project.

For me, I go on a three type of antibiotic and rotate through the year (when needed not continually) but Keflex is my choice.[/QUOTE]

It is not really a surprise that resistance to first-line antibiotics tends to originate in Southeast Asia. It happened with anti-malarial drugs and now with drugs used for sexually-transmitted infections. The main reason is well-known: the high prevalence of self-medication including the improper use of these powerful drugs (typically using low doses for supposed prevention) and also stopping treatment before the full course has been completed when symptoms actually appear.

Sad to say, the mongers who post dubious recommendations for self-treatment and preventiion here are just as culpable as the "ignorant peasants" and the unqualified drug-sellers that these outcomes are usually blamed on. If you are too ashamed or too cheap to consult a well-informed and conscientious medical professional with your STI symptoms (and not all are, especially those who know they will never see you again!), you shouldn't be out playing with naughty girls. If these drugs are used as seem to be described here, you might or might not be putting yourself at risk, but you will definitely be contributing to the development of drug resistance and putting a lot more people in danger in the future.

[QUOTE=Lenience]
If you are too ashamed or too cheap to consult a well-informed and conscientious medical professional with your STI symptoms (and not all are, especially those who know they will never see you again!), you shouldn't be out playing with naughty girls. [/QUOTE]

yes, Tansak, go see a doctor wud ya, you cheap charlie ;)

[QUOTE=Lenience]Sad to say, the mongers who post dubious recommendations for self-treatment and preventiion here are just as culpable as the "ignorant peasants" and the unqualified drug-sellers that these outcomes are usually blamed on. If you are too ashamed or too cheap to consult a well-informed and conscientious medical professional with your STI symptoms (and not all are, especially those who know they will never see you again!), you shouldn't be out playing with naughty girls. If these drugs are used as seem to be described here, you might or might not be putting yourself at risk, but you will definitely be contributing to the development of drug resistance and putting a lot more people in danger in the future.[/QUOTE]

My first written response was with words like self righteous prick and dick head and such. But since I was chatting with my brother 1Ball and he told me I should tone it down a little out of respect for him as he is SO OLD and Senile I will.

So I'll step back a moment here and let me ask, where does it state I self medicate or that I advise to self medicate? Please show me in my post something that is not correct as this was given to me by a doctor and my antibiotic routine is prescribed by a doctor due to my working conditions.

I am in the Pacific with a wide varieties of strange illnesses and travel through out SE Asia in remote areas. I'm not talking just about STD's but we've had briefing after briefing about STD's every six months.

Opebo asked a prevalent question and I responded to his post. And I gave him factual information that is reported to me. Never did I state he should self medicate and never did I state I self medicate. My routine is prescribed by an international organization doctor. I even said that the DOCTORS should have changed their prescriptions.....

Must be nice to live on such a high horse you self righteous prick... Oops... damn that slipped out again...

[QUOTE=1Ball]yes, Tansak, go see a doctor wud ya, you cheap charlie ;)[/QUOTE]

Just got all my labs back today... clean as a whistle...

But I'm so whipped that now my current GF wants to see the reports and.... since she thinks we are almost up to the alter now... her older sister wants to take us to get our blood checked before we have sex together...

She's a little too late for that but we won't tell anyone.... ;)

[QUOTE=Opebo]Thanks for your prompt and useful response! I don't normally use doctors, but the majority of pharmacists in Thailand still recommend Ciprofloxacin or Norfloxacin. A few however know to recommend azithromycin and/or a cephalosporin.

Just wondering why you prefer Keflex and how it is different from Cefspan?[/QUOTE]

Pharmacists will use what the guy before them used or what the last customer asked for. Some actually know what they are doing but the one's I've talked to grab a box and sell it out...

Keflex for me for my items I get and I'm not talking STDS have always packed the fastest recovery times.

[QUOTE=Lenience]you shouldn't be out playing with naughty girls[/QUOTE]

Naughty girls??? I haven't seen it described this way since my grandfathers time...

I'm happy to have "naughty girls" to play with. For me it's better then going to the church social.

[QUOTE=Lenience]...If these drugs are used as seem to be described here, you might or might not be putting yourself at risk, but you will definitely be contributing to the development of drug resistance and putting a lot more people in danger in the future.[/QUOTE]

No, the use as described here is precisely as prescribed by doctors and recommended by the CDC, Leni. 400 mg Cefspan taken in one dose for gonorrhea, and 1 g of azithromycin taken in one dose for chlamydia is absolutely standard. Many sources also suggest the 1g of azithromycin is effective for gonorrhea as well, but that is the only (and only very slightly) 'non-standard' remedy discussed here.

I appreciate your awe of the medical profession, but I don't fully share it. If I'm in some obscure Thai town and discover that I have the same drip-and-burning that I had six months ago, I will gain absolutely nothing by visiting the local doctors. I can simply use what worked last time.

And by the way, the Cefspan worked perfectly - the old eurethral aperture is dry as a bone and clean as a whistle this afternoon!

[QUOTE=Tansak KTV]Pharmacists will use what the guy before them used or what the last customer asked for. Some actually know what they are doing but the one's I've talked to grab a box and sell it out...

Keflex for me for my items I get and I'm not talking STDS have always packed the fastest recovery times.[/QUOTE]


Thanks for demonstrating my point. The pharmacists sell whatever they can to make a few baht. It must be nice to be YOUNG, rich, and handsome AND so brilliant that you don't have to read posts carefully. I chose to quote you before just for continuity, and you may note that I did not specifically refer to you. I was referring to literally hundreds of posts I have seen on ISG, including some that suggest barebacking is fine if you just do or ingest such-and-such before, after, during, etc.

[QUOTE=Ny Desiman] DATY

How far can I go in terms of foreplay when I am picking up a freelancer? I love Thai woman but I want to play it safe too.[/QUOTE][url]http://www.medhelp.org/posts/STDs/Cunnilingus-adn-STD-risks/show/247309[/url]

[QUOTE=Tansak KTV]Naughty girls??? I haven't seen it described this way since my grandfathers time...

I'm happy to have "naughty girls" to play with. For me it's better then going to the church social.[/QUOTE]
Those squeaky clean church women are serious sexual freaks! I try to attend religeous evets as much as possible in search of some really good poon!

A middle aged American business man found himself in Bangkok with spare time after a business meeting. The hotel bellboy offered to find him a pretty girl for a little afternoon delight. The girl showed up and was a gorgeous little spinner who met all his demands. Unknown at the time the condom had broken sometime during reverse cowgirl from the the girl's enthusiastic thrusts. He immediately washed thoroughly when the sex was complete.

Two weeks later when he was back in the US, his cock started to itch and turned different colors. There was black, purple and green patches all over his sore cock. He checked the internet and did not see anything that would explain the multiple colors, the itch and pain.

Out of fear, he went to his medical provider to get his tool checked out. He was lead into a room and told to strip and await the doctor. In comes the doctor who has him lift the backless gown he was wearing. The doctor turned pale, gagged and ran out of the room. The now composed doctor reentered the room, apologizing for his reaction and begin the examination. He consulted his medical books and told the distraught man that the only cure was to remove his cock and balls before the infection spread to the rest of his body.

The poor guy was terribly upset and told the doctor no way was he going to let anyone cut off his dick and left in a huff.

Several more days passed, the colors were getting darker and the itching and pain was nearly unbearable. It dawn on him if he got the disease in Thailand, maybe a Thai doctor could heal him. At the Thai doctors, blood test and swabs were taken. The doctor entered the room for the exam with the test results. After the exam, the man told the Thai doctor what the American doctor had said and how he want to remove his cock.

The Thai doctor looked over the test results again, and leaned closer to take a second look at the infected penis. He leaned back and said it would not be necessary to remove his penis.

The man looked relieved and exclaimed, "I don't have to cut my dick off!"

The doctor looked him in the eye and said "No. In a few days it fall off by itself."

[QUOTE=Nvslim]...the the girl's enthusiastic thrusts.

[/QUOTE]

This was the one part of that story which amused me.

To all you self treating guru's, I want to find out if any of you have information about how high the risk of getting NGU from a Thai Girl during BBBJ. I had some friends over this weekend and we were talking about out hobby in BKK and I explained that i have a girl that just loves going to town with my dick and one of my friends tells me that I should get checked for NGU especially if you feel any kind of irritation 3 weeks later.

I have gone over past reports and not much about NGU, so if anyone knows, please let me know. I am due back in BKK in August and I need to know how I should deal with this. Damm i hate the CBJ

AB

[QUOTE=Asia Butterfly]To all you self treating guru's, I want to find out if any of you have information about how high the risk of getting NGU from a Thai Girl during BBBJ. I had some friends over this weekend and we were talking about out hobby in BKK and I explained that i have a girl that just loves going to town with my dick and one of my friends tells me that I should get checked for NGU especially if you feel any kind of irritation 3 weeks later.

I have gone over past reports and not much about NGU, so if anyone knows, please let me know. I am due back in BKK in August and I need to know how I should deal with this. Damm i hate the CBJ

AB[/QUOTE]

Not Thai specific but YES oral sex is starting to have a much higher risk of Non Gonococcal Urethritis (NGU). It can also be called Non Specific Urethritis (NSU). It is usually Chlamydia Trachomatis but there are about four common ones out there. Or this is as I understand the situation. You will be at risk for NGU / NSU from a uncovered BJ. However.. I am not sure the rates for infection in Thai are that high, I think many other countries carry a much higher risk factor for this then thailand.

But really it's a quick antibiotic cure if you come down with it. Not saying it doesn't hurt but it isn't like this STD is life threatening...

Risk / Reward factor... does the reward of getting a straight BBJCIM cover the risk of getting some pain and inflammation and going on some antibiotics IF you happen to catch it? It's our own personal choices.

[QUOTE=Vito Corleone]Those squeaky clean church women are serious sexual freaks! I try to attend religeous evets as much as possible in search of some really good poon![/QUOTE]

Come to think of it, I had a girl say all the good thai girl routine to me, even had to go to temple and such... then I took her home like a gentleman and she nailed the heck out of me...

I might have to hang out at the temples more often... :D

[QUOTE=Dobinator1]NIH Spends $178,000 to Study Why Prostitutes in Thailand Have High HIV Risk:

[url]http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/05/20/nih-spends-study-prostitutes-thailand-high-hiv-risk/[/url][/QUOTE]

...and now the $178,000 answer;

...it is because they are performing "at risk" activites without a condom. This is more so in Thailand than any other place that has large numbers of sex workers. Girls in FKK Clubs in Germany are engaging in sex all day long...but they use condoms....hence no recorded hiv. Thailand sex workers are very lax about protection for the most part.

[QUOTE=Betong]Speaking of anonymous testing, I finally got around to checking out the Red Cross Anonymous Clinic (คลีนิคนิรนาม = Khliinik Niranaam). It's on Ratdamri Rd. near the intersection with Sarasin, built between the two big water towers. Cheap (B200), quick, friendly, and professional.

While waiting for my results I got a bit of a reality check: talked to a couple HIV+ Thai guys who come their for their monthly viral load and other tests. There but for the grace of God . . . .

It needs to be said again: there's really no downside to getting tested, especially at a place like this. If you're negative, as I was, it's a relief, and good motivation to be even more careful in future. If positive, they're well set up for consultation and referral.[/QUOTE]

If you bring your Thai gf to this place...and she is willing to show her ID....the testing is free. I have brought many girls to this place after condom breaks...or beginning some lt relationship. The testing is fast and the result interview is painless. Sometimes the girls are afraid to show their ID card, as they believe it will be reported that they were even there.....then you have to pay a few hundred baht.....I think 200 is right.

[QUOTE=Tansak KTV]Not Thai specific but YES oral sex is starting to have a much higher risk of Non Gonococcal Urethritis (NGU). It can also be called Non Specific Urethritis (NSU). It is usually Chlamydia Trachomatis but there are about four common ones out there. Or this is as I understand the situation. You will be at risk for NGU / NSU from a uncovered BJ. However.. I am not sure the rates for infection in Thai are that high, I think many other countries carry a much higher risk factor for this then thailand.

But really it's a quick antibiotic cure if you come down with it. Not saying it doesn't hurt but it isn't like this STD is life threatening...

Risk / Reward factor... does the reward of getting a straight BBJCIM cover the risk of getting some pain and inflammation and going on some antibiotics IF you happen to catch it? It's our own personal choices.[/QUOTE]So what happens if you kiss the girl and she has the bacteria. It is real confusing to me. In any case, it appears that this is cleared by regulay doxy.

[QUOTE=Asia Butterfly]So what happens if you kiss the girl and she has the bacteria. It is real confusing to me. In any case, it appears that this is cleared by regulay doxy.[/QUOTE]You should talk to your doctor. Doxy (Doxycycline 100 mg usually) could be given to you for NGU. From what I understand you can't transmit it by kissing each other it must be oral sex as the disease can be in the mouth but needs to get into the dick or pussy (as it is a bacterial infection in the Urinary Tract area). You can have the bacteria in your body but it is infected in the urinary tract.

Go see a clinic for good info. However if you get this, and you don't get it treated correctly and don't get it completely cleared up you can go years and years of recurrences (discharge, head aches, balls hurt, pain while pissing, many many symptoms).

I get checked every month on a complete work up even when I'm using 100% protected sex.

[QUOTE=Dobinator1]NIH Spends $178,000 to Study Why Prostitutes in Thailand Have High HIV Risk:

[url]http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/05/20/nih-spends-study-prostitutes-thailand-high-hiv-risk/[/url][/QUOTE]From this article:

[QUOTE]Researchers plan to interview 60 sex workers -- 36 women and 24 kathoey...[/QUOTE]$178,000 for interviewing 60 sex workers! Wow!

That's seriously overpaying!

just got back from the hospital and was diagnosed with chlamydia. the doc said that i had been infected within the last 7-10 days, so it was definitely my newly acquired g/f who gave it to me. gave me some meds and told me that it the burning sensation when i [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord134][CodeWord134][/url] would go away within 3-4 days.

now to my query. she is definitely the one who gave it to me, but is it possible that she didn't know that she had it? when we first got together she claimed that she had not had sex in over 2 years - is it possible for chlamydia to remain dormant for that long? or is she definitely lying?

she's no bargirl - met her on thai love links and she seems like a very good girl, but i guess you never know.

[quote=mangofan]just got back from the hospital and was diagnosed with chlamydia. the doc said that i had been infected within the last 7-10 days, so it was definitely my newly acquired g/f who gave it to me. gave me some meds and told me that it the burning sensation when i [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord134][CodeWord134][/url] would go away within 3-4 days.

now to my query. she is definitely the one who gave it to me, but is it possible that she didn't know that she had it? when we first got together she claimed that she had not had sex in over 2 years - is it possible for chlamydia to remain dormant for that long? or is she definitely lying?

[b]she's no bargirl - met her on thai love links and she seems like a very good girl,[/b] but i guess you never know.[/quote]

hate to tell you this but there are bgs and ex bgs on tll. i've met more than a few of them, luckily none of them ever gave me any stds.

[QUOTE=Mangofan]Now to my query. She is definitely the one who gave it to me, but is it possible that she didn't know that she had it? When we first got together she claimed that she had not had sex in over 2 years - is it possible for Chlamydia to remain dormant for that long? Or is she definitely lying? [/QUOTE]

Actually, MOST women do not even know they have Chlamydia and about half the men who have it do not experience any symptoms. The only way to know if you have it is if you get tested and most women are suggested to get tested once a year if they are sexually active. It is known as the Silent Disease as most folks do not know they have it, and the damage it does to women you will not realize they become sterile until it is too late etc...

So is her story real? Could be, I'm not sure about no sex for two years but she can have the disease for a long time with no symptoms.

[QUOTE=Mangofan]The Doc said that I had been infected within the last 7-10 days[/QUOTE]

Um.... symptoms show up from 1 to 3 weeks after exposure for most cases but can show up much later. You could have been exposed long ago mate, it does not have to be from her. But if you got it from other you might have given it to her. So she should be checked either way, and treated....

RE: Support from my other post...

"Chlamydia is known as the "Silent Epidemic" because in women, it may not cause any symptoms in 75% of cases[8], and can linger for months or years before being discovered"

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chlamydia_infection[/url]

[QUOTE=Tansak KTV]Um.... symptoms show up from 1 to 3 weeks after exposure for most cases but can show up much later. You could have been exposed long ago mate, it does not have to be from her. But if you got it from other you might have given it to her. So she should be checked either way, and treated....
[/QUOTE]

Before her, the last girl I had sex with was over 2 months ago, and we used a condom. I've always used a condom with girls who were not my g/f - been about 6 months since the last one, so it has to be the current g/f who gave it to me.

She's getting checked on Monday - she's scared that she might not be able to have children because it was obviously dormant for 2 years.

[QUOTE=Goyave]From this article:

$178,000 for interviewing 60 sex workers! Wow!

That's seriously overpaying![/QUOTE]

I think you have to factor in the time it take to find 60 willing sex workers. The researcher most likely has to interview hundred if not thousand just to find these 60 sex workers. For the data to be valid, the researcher might have to leave out the data from those they deemed to be lying. Most of the grant will go toward the researcher salary-that is how most grant are, salary for the researcher.

[QUOTE=Bob1000]I think you have to factor in the time it take to find 60 willing sex workers. The researcher most likely has to interview hundred if not thousand just to find these 60 sex workers. For the data to be valid, the researcher might have to leave out the data from those they deemed to be lying. Most of the grant will go toward the researcher salary-that is how most grant are, salary for the researcher.[/QUOTE]

I think that you've missed the irony in my previous post. I probably should have added a smiley. :D

[QUOTE=Mangofan]Before her, the last girl I had sex with was over 2 months ago, and we used a condom. I've always used a condom with girls who were not my g/f - been about 6 months since the last one, so it has to be the current g/f who gave it to me.

She's getting checked on Monday - she's scared that she might not be able to have children because it was obviously dormant for 2 years.[/QUOTE]

That is good news, but also you can get it from oral sex and other means. She probably had it and it was sitting in her for long time but I'm just making the point for others that you could have gotten it from other ways, or it was inside you for a while also.

[QUOTE=Mangofan]

She's no bargirl - met her on Thai Love Links and she seems like a very good girl, but I guess you never know.[/QUOTE]

She's Thai. All Thai's lie and none are to be trusted!

[QUOTE=Amjeck]She's Thai. All Thai's lie and none are to be trusted![/QUOTE]

Because you think Expats and Tourists are honest? hahahahaha right.

[quote=mangofan]just got back from the hospital and was diagnosed with chlamydia. the doc said that i had been infected within the last 7-10 days, so it was definitely my newly acquired g/f who gave it to me. gave me some meds and told me that it the burning sensation when i [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord134][CodeWord134][/url] would go away within 3-4 days.

now to my query. she is definitely the one who gave it to me, but is it possible that she didn't know that she had it? when we first got together she claimed that she had not had sex in over 2 years - is it possible for chlamydia to remain dormant for that long? or is she definitely lying?

she's no bargirl - met her on thai love links and she seems like a very good girl, but i guess you never know.[/quote]
the doctor probably should have said most likely in last 7 days. only experienced specialists are likely to really know what they talking about.

can catch chlamydia from bbbj, or from fingering, believe me i know. now the doctor told me that from oral was impossible, so he was badly informed. i also got it in the eye after rubbing my eye presumably. the condom on my dick didn't prevent this :d

its most probable that the girl is lying if you aren't. if you had a bbbj recently then maybe that was it.
but if the end, it doesn't really matter how you got it. just treat it and do internet research to see what things are risky.

it didn't kill me. i keep spare antibotics just in case now.
anyway, i suggest getting both you and your gf tested, before embarking on unprotected screwing, and even then i would not rush into it.

[QUOTE=Run Mann]Hate to tell you this but there are BGs and ex BGs on TLL.
I've met more than a few of them, luckily none of them ever gave me any STDs.[/QUOTE]Did you have to pay them something for action?

[QUOTE=NicFrenchy]Because you think Expats and Tourists are honest? hahahahaha right.[/QUOTE]
Irrelevant! Has nothing to do with what I said.

She went to the hospital today - she's all clear - no trace of chlamydia. So it's either a misdiagnosis or it's been dormant in my system for a few months. I was shagging loads of girls before I met her (all with protection) a few months ago, so who knows.

But I have another query. When the doc was inspecting my penis he noticed little bumps in my genital area. They are not genital warts - they are right above the base of my penis but not on it. There are two of these bumps - they have been there for years and this past year I have taken to trying to freeze them off with various products from the states which usually results in a shrinking of these things but they usually come back within a few weeks. I thought I had gotten them from shaving and from living in a hot place like Bangkok but he said that they were cysts of some sort and that they could cause cancer. He said that I got them from sex and that they needed to be cauterized electrically. He also said it was going to cost 12-15,000 baht for the procedure.

Anyone have any experience with this? I've had these buggers for years - they don't hurt but they are an annoyance.

[QUOTE=Mangofan]...He also said it was going to cost 12-15,000 baht for the procedure.[/QUOTE]

Haha, I think there you have your answer, MF. Get a second opinion. Heck if you're from a civilized country that has socialized medicine, just wait till you get home.

[url]http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=934661&postcount=7508[/url]

so i went to the bumrungrad hospital to check up what the pain was between my anus and scrotum. and it was not herpes he sad and told me it was from the scooterdriving. but what i heard is that the symptom can vary. doh, im such a silly boy that cant even trust the best hospital in town..

even took hiv, syfilis and gonorrhoea and all was negative. the chlamydia has 2 weeks waiting for the result. but damn that hurted. i couldnt lay still, felt like a sissy. oh man, that hurted and still hurts when i touch the top. and when i urinated after it hurted to. its my first chlamydia test and im not sure he did it the proper way. ive herad from others that its not a fun story to do the test, but should it hurt when you [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord134][CodeWord134][/url] after the test? ill hope i dont need to take the test again..

glad all the other results were negative. hope i can use my dick soon again and then it will be cbj. dont want these mindfucks again..

[QUOTE=Kid Icarus]So I went to the Bumrungrad Hospital to check up what the pain was between my anus and scrotum. And It was not herpes he sad and told me it was from the scooterdriving. But what I heard is that the symptom can vary. Doh, im such a silly boy that cant even trust the best hospital in town..[/QUOTE]
If scooters are that hard on you, you might try wearing bike shorts. :)

Cranberry juice or cranberry juice extract is a good first line of defense against urinary tract problems. I can't find either one on the road so I just bring some extract from home and it works well.

[QUOTE=Finrod]If scooters are that hard on you, you might try wearing bike shorts. :)

Cranberry juice or cranberry juice extract is a good first line of defense against urinary tract problems. I can't find either one on the road so I just bring some extract from home and it works well.[/QUOTE]

Ive been driving scooters motocross all my life and never got this thing. Must have been the scooter that was wrong and not me =P

Thanks for the advice. Ill try to wash my dick and anus with juice next time then.. or I drink it, or both :D

[QUOTE=Opebo] Heck if you're from a civilized country that has socialized medicine, just wait till you get home.[/QUOTE]

Is there such a thing? Civilized, socialized. These 2 don't seem to go together.

[QUOTE=Gwailo]Is there such a thing? Civilized, socialized. These 2 don't seem to go together.[/QUOTE]

Brother, I'm from The Bad Place. Take it from me, from our unfortunate perspective, places like Germany, Sweden, Britain all look pretty idyllic. Heck even Taiwan looks better. People get sick and die in the Bad Place just because its an unadulterated plutocracy.

[quote=kid icarus][url]http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=934661&postcount=7508[/url]

so i went to the bumrungrad hospital to check up what the pain was between my anus and scrotum. and it was not herpes he sad and told me it was from the scooterdriving. but what i heard is that the symptom can vary. doh, im such a silly boy that cant even trust the best hospital in town..

even took hiv, syfilis and gonorrhoea and all was negative. the chlamydia has 2 weeks waiting for the result. but damn that hurted. i couldnt lay still, felt like a sissy. oh man, that hurted and still hurts when i touch the top. and when i urinated after it hurted to. its my first chlamydia test and im not sure he did it the proper way. ive herad from others that its not a fun story to do the test, but should it hurt when you [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord134][CodeWord134][/url] after the test? ill hope i dont need to take the test again..

glad all the other results were negative. hope i can use my dick soon again and then it will be cbj. dont want these mindfucks again..[/quote]
damn! kid icarus, you got fingered and ramrodded all in one day! it makes you want to say no to bareback blowjob, anal rimming and skinless fuck doesn't it?

[QUOTE=Chocha Monger]Damn! Kid Icarus, you got fingered and ramrodded all in one day! It makes you want to say no to bareback blowjob, anal rimming and skinless fuck doesn't it?[/QUOTE]

Im not sure what it says me. But, some good will cum out from everything, sooner or later..

There are a million reasons to wear one of those little rubber devices on the end of your. All of them as you know, painful. But the most painful one is when she comes back to you and says, "I have baby"

Cheers,

Tony

[url]http://www.27red.com/[/url]

[QUOTE=Anthony Morrison]There are a million reasons to wear one of those little rubber devices on the end of your. All of them as you know, painful. But the most painful one is when she comes back to you and says, "I have baby"
Cheers,
Tony
[url]http://www.27red.com/[/url][/QUOTE]

Painful for her and the Baby but not necessarily for punters, who in many cases are long-gone in search of their next conquest.

You guys ever hear of a vasectomy? Or is that too new world?

[QUOTE=Run Mann]Painful for her and the Baby but not necessarily for punters, who in many cases are long-gone in search of their next conquest.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Kid Icarus]Ive been driving scooters motocross all my life and never got this thing. Must have been the scooter that was wrong and not me =P

Thanks for the advice. Ill try to wash my dick and anus with juice next time then.. or I drink it, or both :D[/QUOTE]You may want to get checked for prostetitis. Its symptoms are similar to what you are describing. Slight burning when you [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140][CodeWord140][/url] and discomfort in the area you are talking about. Its the male version of a UTI. The prostate can become infected and treating it is difficult requiring a long bout of strong antibiotics. The quickest way to know is have a doctor do a digital exam. If when he or she touches your prostate it is painful, you have a prostate infection. I'm betting that's what you have. The downside is once you get prostate infections you are susceptible to them.

On a side note, Oral sex is not a common cause of infection with this bacteria. Chlamydia is less likely to be transmitted during oral sex because the bacteria that cause chlamydia prefer to target the genital area rather than the throat. This is why it is unlikely for chlamydia to be transmitted from mouth-to-penis and penis-to-mouth contact, although it is still possible.

[url]http://www.ashastd.org/learn/learn_chlamydia. Cfm[/url]

To understand your risks (assuming you believe BBBJ is fairly low risk) you need to understand how these diseases function. What environments they can and can not survive in.

Chlamydia and gonorrhea are both bacteria. Chlamydia does not survive well in the throat or mouth well while gonorrhea does. HIV is a virus and a blood/fluid transmitted disease. There are NO known cases where the HIV virus has ever been detected in human saliva. So, unless you have open cuts or sores on your johnson and she has cuts and/or open sores in her mouth, your chances of HIV infection are next to zero.

[url]http://hivinsite.ucsf. Edu/InSite?page=pr-rr-05[/url]

Research study done showed: There were about 2, 000 men, 59 seroconversions, and we came up with an estimate of 4/10, 000--which was four one-hundredths of one percent--infection rate.

It is interesting to note that the person at the greatest risk is the one giving head not the one receiving it. Again, if you understand how the disease is most easily transmitted this makes sense.

It may interest some mongers to know that HIV has been linked to overuse of antibiotics and/or the accompanying infections.

This is one theory as to why gay men have a higher risk of hiv, namely because their immune systems are being constantly compromised by infections and the antibiotics they take.

We should all be playing safe, but what interests me most from what I read is that pro-actively taking antibiotics may actually compromise your immune system and open it up to HIV!

Be careful self medicating!

Actually Oki the reason those minor infections make one more susceptible is precisely because the immune system is more active - there are lots of immune system cells already in the urethra or vagina to be infected. (As I'm sure you know the cells which the virus infect are the immune system cells)

So it is accurate to say that getting minor stds increases ones risk, and leaving them untreated increases ones risk, but treating them with antibiotics (either independently or under a doctor's influence) does not.

Thanks Opebo,

Was not suggesting not to treat, of course treat infections that would be crazy if you didn't just that pre-dosing with antibiotics is not clever though. You just build up a resistance.

[QUOTE=Opebo]Actually Oki the reason those minor infections make one more susceptible is precisely because the immune system is more active - there are lots of immune system cells already in the urethra or vagina to be infected. (As I'm sure you know the cells which the virus infect are the immune system cells)

So it is accurate to say that getting minor stds increases ones risk, and leaving them untreated increases ones risk, but treating them with antibiotics (either independently or under a doctor's influence) does not.[/QUOTE]

For all you guys who love to fuck uncovered, be sure to look out for the fat lady on the BKK lower Suk ... she's HIV positive and offers bareback sex to one and all.

[url]http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/investigation/27077/confessions-of-an-hiv-positive-prostitute[/url]

[QUOTE=Daddy07]For all you guys who love to fuck uncovered, be sure to look out for the fat lady on the BKK lower Suk ... she's HIV positive and offers bareback sex to one and all.[/QUOTE]

Sadly, she isn't the only one, there are a lot of girls like her

I know its unseemly to be amused at other's miseries, but this one had me chuckling:

[i]After her first HIV test, a doctor suggested she start taking a cocktail of anti-retroviral drugs. She refused, saying it would result in pimples on her face.[/i]

[QUOTE=Opebo]I know its unseemly to be amused at other's miseries, but this one had me chuckling:

[i]After her first HIV test, a doctor suggested she start taking a cocktail of anti-retroviral drugs. She refused, saying it would result in pimples on her face.[/i][/QUOTE]
We must remember, Opebo, that 31 year old HIV infected fat girls with pimples on their face have a more difficult time finding customers, so I do understand why she made that unfortunate decision.

from [i]the bangkok post[/i], 1/12/2009

"about 30 million condoms will be distributed free, particularly to girls aged 15 to 19, throughout the country next year in an anti-aids campaign, deputy public health minister manit nopamornbodi said on tuesday. mr manit announced this in a speech to mark world aids day, dec 1. the minister said more than 33 million had been infected with hiv/aids worldwide.

in thailand, 358,260 people had contracted full aids and 95,983 of them had died. about 30 more people were infected with hiv everyday, he said. about 84 per cent of aids-infected people were estimated to have caught the deadly virus because they had sex without using a condom.

to reduce the spread of aids, the public health ministry would distribute 30 million condoms from public health offices throughout the country next year. emphasis would be on girls aged 15 to 19 years of age because statistics show the rate of infection in this group was twice the rate of boys in their late teens because they do not dare to refuse when asked to have sex or to demand the boys use a condom.

the ministry would also concentrate on educating people about aids and accepting those with hiv in society, mr manit said."

[quote=fon tok]from [i]the bangkok post[/i], 1/12/2009

"about 30 million condoms will be distributed free, particularly to girls aged 15 to 19, throughout the country next year in an anti-aids campaign, deputy public health minister manit nopamornbodi said on tuesday. mr manit announced this in a speech to mark world aids day, dec 1. the minister said more than 33 million had been infected with hiv/aids worldwide.

in thailand, 358,260 people had contracted full aids and 95,983 of them had died. about 30 more people were infected with hiv everyday, he said. about 84 per cent of aids-infected people were estimated to have caught the deadly virus because they had sex without using a condom.

to reduce the spread of aids, the public health ministry would distribute 30 million condoms from public health offices throughout the country next year. emphasis would be on girls aged 15 to 19 years of age because statistics show the rate of infection in this group was twice the rate of boys in their late teens because they do not dare to refuse when asked to have sex or to demand the boys use a condom.

the ministry would also concentrate on educating people about aids and accepting those with hiv in society, mr manit said."[/quote]

sadly these stupid girls will not get the message and get hooked on condoms... they will soon realise that it's not that p;easurable and give up... also, they have the average somchai (mr moron) begging them to not use condoms, ejaculating inside their cunts and making a nice baby, then taking off after a month because they can't be bothered to take care of the sad kid.

Well, if I'm hooking up with Bangkok hookers, I just need to assume some HIV risk. But here's what happened. So I was fucking a girl, and just couldn't shoot my load in the condom for whatever reason. Happens a lot with me. So I gave up, pulled off the condom, and jerked off on her tits.

The problem is, what if I got some vag fluids on my hands, either from where some were deposited at the base of my dick, or from touching the condom itself? I'm sure I touched my urethral opening while I was stroking, so I could have stuck some HIV infected goo in there.

Now I got a rash and it looks an awful lot like what HIV+ people get as they seroconvert. Hope I'm not an exceptional case of bad luck.

Anyone else ever worry about this?

[QUOTE=Dexadrine]Well, if I'm hooking up with Bangkok hookers, I just need to assume some HIV risk. But here's what happened. So I was fucking a girl, and just couldn't shoot my load in the condom for whatever reason. Happens a lot with me. So I gave up, pulled off the condom, and jerked off on her tits.

The problem is, what if I got some vag fluids on my hands, either from where some were deposited at the base of my dick, or from touching the condom itself? I'm sure I touched my urethral opening while I was stroking, so I could have stuck some HIV infected goo in there.

Now I got a rash and it looks an awful lot like what HIV+ people get as they seroconvert. Hope I'm not an exceptional case of bad luck.

Anyone else ever worry about this?[/QUOTE]

Hope you don't want us to diagnose you.... Nope I've never worried about getting HIV by jacking off, as I'm worried about it when the condom breaks or I go bareback.

In other words mate, go to a doctor. I just had a medical (twice a month) and my doctor scolded me as usual but tests are still negative.

[QUOTE=Dexadrine]...So I was fucking a girl, and just couldn't shoot my load in the condom for whatever reason. Happens a lot with me. So I gave up, pulled off the condom, and jerked off on her tits.[/QUOTE]

While obviously you have no risk whatever of HIV (and perhaps your question was facetious), you do bring up an interesting point. For many of us - perhaps most - it is impossible to receive enough stimulation while wearing a condom to attain orgasm. Of course it is also very normal to not be able to maintain an erection with one on, simply because there is little or no stimulation ('feeling').

It seems to me that given these rather severe drawbacks of condom-sex, a better focus of a 'safe sex' campaign might be some other practices, such as hand-jobs. How do give hand-jobs, how to be satisfied with hand-jobs only, and so forth. And most of all, to indoctrinate the populace to just accept hand-jobs as exciting and desirable, instead of sad and disappointing, as they are in actuality.

[QUOTE=Dexadrine]The problem is, what if I got some vag fluids on my hands, either from where some were deposited at the base of my dick, or from touching the condom itself? I'm sure I touched my urethral opening while I was stroking, so I could have stuck some HIV infected goo in there.[/QUOTE]I think the risk is very theoretical. HI viruses die almost immediately when they are out of the human body. The virus cannot live outside. Therefore you can't be infected through your own hands.

PS. But I was also worried when changing the condom I touched the inside of the 2nd condom before inserting it on my dick. But as said it should be almost impossible to get an HIV infection, and of course the girl also should have it, which is probably not so likely anyway.

[QUOTE=Dexadrine]
The problem is, what if I got some vag fluids on my hands, either from where some were deposited at the base of my dick, or from touching the condom itself? I'm sure I touched my urethral opening while I was stroking, so I could have stuck some HIV infected goo in there.

Now I got a rash and it looks an awful lot like what HIV+ people get as they seroconvert. Hope I'm not an exceptional case of bad luck.

Anyone else ever worry about this?[/QUOTE]

You should tidy up your personal affairs, say goodbye to all, make a will etc - the end is near.

Hi all,

Was wondering how much risk is it when a person have sex with WG or sex provider and found out broken condom before ejaculation?

Another questions is how much risk is it for a person to have sex with WG or sex provider by inserting his little Johnny inside of here bareback and then afterwards wear condom and comes inside of her with the condom on. this is irregardless of whether he wash his little johnny first before covered with condom for the final action.

MD

seems to be an epidemic of broken condoms the past 8 days. this happemed to some one in china and vietnam. girls were very scarred.

[QUOTE=Macho Dik]Hi all,

Was wondering how much risk is it when a person have sex with WG or sex provider and found out broken condom before ejaculation?

Another questions is how much risk is it for a person to have sex with WG or sex provider by inserting his little Johnny inside of here bareback and then afterwards wear condom and comes inside of her with the condom on. this is irregardless of whether he wash his little johnny first before covered with condom for the final action.

MD[/QUOTE]
It's the same as if you fucked bareback the entire time.

[QUOTE=Daddy07]For all you guys who love to fuck uncovered, be sure to look out for the fat lady on the BKK lower Suk ... she's HIV positive and offers bareback sex to one and all.

[url]http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/investigation/27077/confessions-of-an-hiv-positive-prostitute[/url][/QUOTE]

....geeeesh....I think I fucked the one with the nice leg action in the photo....I hope she didn't get airborne HIV from the fat one......but I did use a condom!! Seriously, if Thailand was a legit country, the sow would be arrested and charged with murder.

[QUOTE=Chocha Monger]It's the same as if you fucked bareback the entire time.[/QUOTE]


Hi,

Well, is there any differences between barebacking with full ejaculations inside of her against barebacking without ejaculations?

I learned from a site that circumsized man has the lower tendency to be infected against uncircumcised one, I am circumisized.

this is really the worst part in my life and still don't. know what to do with my wifey. I think waiting for 3 months not having sex with her will certainly makes her suspect what was going on with me but I don't. want to infected my love one.....so see, this is really not worth for me to gambled for few mins of lust in exchange for months of pounding worriness and stress.

I think after I get thru with this, I would like to practice abstinense, not really worth for us to have this kind of punishment just for few mins of happiness, worst if something happen.

MD

[QUOTE=Macho Dik]Hi,

Well, is there any differences between barebacking with full ejaculations inside of her against barebacking without ejaculations?

I learned from a site that circumsized man has the lower tendency to be infected against uncircumcised one, I am circumisized.

this is really the worst part in my life and still don't. know what to do with my wifey. I think waiting for 3 months not having sex with her will certainly makes her suspect what was going on with me but I don't. want to infected my love one.....so see, this is really not worth for me to gambled for few mins of lust in exchange for months of pounding worriness and stress.

I think after I get thru with this, I would like to practice abstinense, not really worth for us to have this kind of punishment just for few mins of happiness, worst if something happen.

MD[/QUOTE]
The risk is lower for the woman if that man is HIV positive and there is no ejaculation. The risk is that same for the man because he is pumping vaginal secretions into his dick hole whether he nuts or not. The benefits of circumcision are not certain. There are studies showing benefit in HIV prevention and others showing no benefit whatsoever beyond losing some of the sensitive tissue in your dick which ironically means you're more likely to bareback in order to savor the subtle sensations of the pussy the way an intact man can.

Your risk also depends on what you did after you fucked raw. Did you wash you dick and [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140][CodeWord140][/url] before putting on a condom? Did you seek antiviral medication immediately after exposure? Did you fuck hard and bruise your dick?

You can tell the wifey that you fucked a prostitute raw dog and you have to use condoms with her until you get a negative test in the next 3-6 months. If you don't care about her you can just go about business as normal. Unless you're an unlucky bastard you probably didn't catch AIDS this time around but you should learn from the experience.

[QUOTE=Dexadrine]

Now I got a rash[/QUOTE]

Get a life Dex, you have a one in a squillion chance of getting HIV in the circumstances you describe.

A rash in the groin in the tropics is more than likely caused by sweat and is easily fixed with Daktarin/cortisone ointment.

Here's the HIV skinny in words of one syllable.

For a man to get HIV, infected fluids from the sex partner have to enter his blood stream.

Usually but not exclusively, this happens in anal sex because the rectum is prone to tearing and infected fluid enters these little fissures or tears.

Theoretically this could happen in a heterosexual encounter if an infected woman, having used a sex toy on herself, then stuck it up your butt (a finger will do fine too).

To get HIV from fucking or wanking or whatever you need:

(1) an HIV positive sex partner
(2) an open wound, cut or lesion on your dick or groin area

If you have bleeding gums or acute mouth ulcers, the docs will say it is theoretically possible to get infected from DATY with an infected partner.

Far more common in LOS are virulent strains of gonorrhea that bollix the doctors when you go home. These strains need special intravenous antibiotics that in some countries are only available with special permission from the health authorities.

And be warned, you can get GO from a BBBJ. I am not repeating rumours or saying this happened to a friend of a friend.

It happened to me, and the symptoms appeared while I was a few days in Germany.

It was an absolute nightmare and I was treated like a leper. I thought they were going to demand I carried a handbell and walk around chanting "unclean, unclean"

I was shunted from hospital to hospital to clinic to surgery and after almost two weeks got treatment at a hospice for terminal gay AIDS patients.

i was in thailand for a couple of weeks in 2009. i had some bbbj but all vaginal sex was safely covered. on the morning of my flight back home, i started having symptoms of gonnorhea or chlamidia and they got worse over the next few days. burning/stinging feeling during urination, discharge, pain in the nads, urethra felt sore, dark [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord109][CodeWord109][/url]. 6 days after the start of the symptoms i went to a clinic for a full battery of std tests. they took blood and [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord109][CodeWord109][/url] samples. four days after that i got the results: all negative, i was std-free. but by this time the symptoms started going away. after 14 days i was totally back to normal all symptoms were gone. i went to talk to a doctor about it and he said i probably just caught some bacteria (from oral sex) that caused a urinary tract infection and my immune system fought it off.
so that's my story, i thought i would share it.

[quote=china 69]i was in thailand for a couple of weeks in 2009. i had some bbbj but all vaginal sex was safely covered. on the morning of my flight back home, i started having symptoms of gonnorhea or chlamidia and they got worse over the next few days. burning/stinging feeling during urination, discharge, pain in the nads, urethra felt sore, dark [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord109][CodeWord109][/url]. 6 days after the start of the symptoms i went to a clinic for a full battery of std tests. they took blood and [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord109][CodeWord109][/url] samples. four days after that i got the results: all negative, i was std-free. but by this time the symptoms started going away. after 14 days i was totally back to normal all symptoms were gone. i went to talk to a doctor about it and he said i probably just caught some bacteria (from oral sex) that caused a urinary tract infection and my immune system fought it off.
so that's my story, i thought i would share it.[/quote]

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/non-gonococcal_urethritis[/url]

[quote=china 69]i was in thailand for a couple of weeks in 2009. i had some bbbj but all vaginal sex was safely covered. on the morning of my flight back home, i started having symptoms of gonnorhea or chlamidia and they got worse over the next few days. burning/stinging feeling during urination, discharge, pain in the nads, urethra felt sore, dark [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord109][CodeWord109][/url]. 6 days after the start of the symptoms i went to a clinic for a full battery of std tests. they took blood and [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord109][CodeWord109][/url] samples. four days after that i got the results: all negative, i was std-free. but by this time the symptoms started going away. after 14 days i was totally back to normal all symptoms were gone. i went to talk to a doctor about it and he said i probably just caught some bacteria (from oral sex) that caused a urinary tract infection and my immune system fought it off.

so that's my story, i thought i would share it.[/quote]same here. actually my dick was swallowen after the first week, and didn't get any better. actually it was getting worse when i got home. red and swallowen, and painful when [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord112][CodeWord112][/url]. went to doctor, and std-free.

if this happens next time i go to thailand, it wil ruin all the fun. can still fuck, but it is anoying and painful.

A few weeks ago I was having sex with a WG in Pattaya - it was a short time bar on soi 3. The condom broke right before I came inside her. I didn't know it broke until I pulled out. We both shit ourselves - she's an old acquaintance actually. We talked about it and she had had a test 2 months before, same as me. She was actually quite scared. A few weeks later I came down with a high fever which I understand is one of the symptoms of contracting HIV so now I am very scared. Have to wait another 2 months to take the test. Meanwhile I'll keep tabs on her and make sure she's okay just to put my mind at ease.

I've had 2 HIV tests - both negative but both were absolute mindfucks. After this I'm getting the hell out of this country. Even if I use a condom there is still some risk. In my opinion not worth it for a few minutes of pleasure. I just hope that I'm okay.

Mangofan,

Is your post serious or is it a joke?

[QUOTE=David_33]Mangofan,

Is your post serious or is it a joke?[/QUOTE]

Quite serious, I'm afraid. Perhaps I'm just being paranoid but this kind of stuff scares the shit out of me.

You´re just being paranoid. Relax.

Yes Mangofan, you are being paranoid. Even if she WAS HIV+, your odds of picking it up from one sexual encounter with a broken condom is less than 1 in 1000. With her not knowing - and being scared - that establishes that she's not to her knowledge HIV positive, that pushes your odds to less than 1 in 10,000.

Crossing Sukhumvit Road is riskier.

[QUOTE=Lama Di Bali]Get a life Dex, you have a one in a squillion chance of getting HIV in the circumstances you describe.

A rash in the groin in the tropics is more than likely caused by sweat and is easily fixed with Daktarin/cortisone ointment.

Here's the HIV skinny in words of one syllable.

For a man to get HIV, infected fluids from the sex partner have to enter his blood stream.

Usually but not exclusively, this happens in anal sex because the rectum is prone to tearing and infected fluid enters these little fissures or tears.

Theoretically this could happen in a heterosexual encounter if an infected woman, having used a sex toy on herself, then stuck it up your butt (a finger will do fine too).

To get HIV from fucking or wanking or whatever you need:

(1) an HIV positive sex partner
(2) an open wound, cut or lesion on your dick or groin area

If you have bleeding gums or acute mouth ulcers, the docs will say it is theoretically possible to get infected from DATY with an infected partner.

Far more common in LOS are virulent strains of gonorrhea that bollix the doctors when you go home. These strains need special intravenous antibiotics that in some countries are only available with special permission from the health authorities.

And be warned, you can get GO from a BBBJ. I am not repeating rumours or saying this happened to a friend of a friend.

It happened to me, and the symptoms appeared while I was a few days in Germany.

It was an absolute nightmare and I was treated like a leper. I thought they were going to demand I carried a handbell and walk around chanting "unclean, unclean"

I was shunted from hospital to hospital to clinic to surgery and after almost two weeks got treatment at a hospice for terminal gay AIDS patients.[/QUOTE]

Actually your claim about acquiring HIV are not correct. While it is true that if the virus gets into your blood stream, you have a high chance of being infected, this is not the only avenue. For instance, Langerhans cells in the foreskin and in the vagina act as an avenue for HIV-1 infection. Infection with HIV occurs by the transfer of blood, semen, vaginal fluid, pre-ejaculate, or breast milk (although I believe that the latter is only really an issue for newborn children). In vaginal sex, the HIV virus in the semen or vaginal fluid can gain access to a number of different kinds of cells through their interaction with the cell membrane in a complex way.

The good news is that, at least in western countries, the chances of being infected through unprotected sex is estimated as 0.04 for males having sex with females in a western wealthy country. It is generally accepted that already having another STI will greatly increase your chances of being infected with HIV if your partner already has it because your defenses are down and the virus can take advantage of that.

[QUOTE=Mangofan]Quite serious, I'm afraid. Perhaps I'm just being paranoid but this kind of stuff scares the shit out of me.[/QUOTE]

I think you should sit back, wait 6 weeks (MOST tests will be positive or negative after 6 weeks with some cases needing a full 6 months to show positive if you have it) and relax in all honesty.

I've gone a couple of years, being tested every month, going BB on some girls and having a decent amount of equipment damage. While having the girls tested does not guarantee anything, nothing in life is a guarantee.

Recently like the other posters I came down with my fourth case in my life of burning while urination, pissing all over the place, but joy oh joy I added pissing blood (luckily when I boarded TG for my flight out of Thai). Got tested in Manila at TWO clinics right away, tests not conclusive as to what I had if anything (given the qty of sex I had they said I could have torn the inner wall also) but I went on some med's and all is fine.

From a last second broken condom with a girl who get's tested and sounds like she is worried about such things compared to what others are doing you seem very safe. So take 6 weeks of relax, get a test then toast one back to your joy. Follow up 4 months after that also just to be sure sure sure.

Dear gents,

Ok. Am too freaked out right now to be coherent, but let's just say here's

Another broken condom story.

I was on business in Liberia, west Africa and had a condom break while doing a local hooker. We started out with her on top for a couple minutes, then switched to mish. Immediately I felt something wasn't right and pulled out, and sure enough it wuz broke.

From frantic googling, here's what I've gathered.

The official window before conclusive results is three months,

But it takes most people 3 to 4 weeks to produce the antibodies that can be detected.

I arrive in BKK in a week. W/c will be about 3 to 4 weeks from my accident.

Can someone please please point me to a Hi-tech lab where I can get advanced HIV tests in BKK, and get results without having to wait days?

By advanced, I'm hoping for more than just the generic ELISA test.

I know I'll probably need to kep testing up to 6 months. And this will definitely change my entire LOS trip by so many freakin degrees.

Thanks in advance for any assistance.

[QUOTE=Mr Pandesal]Dear gents,

Ok. Am too freaked out right now to be coherent, but let's just say here's

Another broken condom story.

I was on business in Liberia, west Africa and had a condom break while doing a local hooker. We started out with her on top for a couple minutes, then switched to mish. Immediately I felt something wasn't right and pulled out, and sure enough it wuz broke.

From frantic googling, here's what I've gathered.

The official window before conclusive results is three months,

But it takes most people 3 to 4 weeks to produce the antibodies that can be detected.

I arrive in BKK in a week. W/c will be about 3 to 4 weeks from my accident.

Can someone please please point me to a Hi-tech lab where I can get advanced HIV tests in BKK, and get results without having to wait days?

By advanced, I'm hoping for more than just the generic ELISA test.

I know I'll probably need to kep testing up to 6 months. And this will definitely change my entire LOS trip by so many freakin degrees.

Thanks in advance for any assistance.[/QUOTE]Get yourself to a hospital, clinic, emergency room, etc. ASAP and get post-exposure prophylaxis (PEP) with drugs for HIV. If you were exposed, this can reduce your risk of permanent infection to ALMOST zero. (but not ZERO). The transmission rate of HIV is low, but is present with one episode of unprotected sex like you are reporting. But PEP can greatly reduce that further. Don't delay and don't be "proud", just get those drugs ASAP

GG

[QUOTE=Member #3428]I think you should sit back, wait 6 weeks (MOST tests will be positive or negative after 6 weeks with some cases needing a full 6 months to show positive if you have it) and relax in all honesty.

I've gone a couple of years, being tested every month, going BB on some girls and having a decent amount of equipment damage. While having the girls tested does not guarantee anything, nothing in life is a guarantee.

Recently like the other posters I came down with my fourth case in my life of burning while urination, pissing all over the place, but joy oh joy I added pissing blood (luckily when I boarded TG for my flight out of Thai). Got tested in Manila at TWO clinics right away, tests not conclusive as to what I had if anything (given the qty of sex I had they said I could have torn the inner wall also) but I went on some med's and all is fine.

From a last second broken condom with a girl who get's tested and sounds like she is worried about such things compared to what others are doing you seem very safe. So take 6 weeks of relax, get a test then toast one back to your joy. Follow up 4 months after that also just to be sure sure sure.[/QUOTE]


Not too many people have this kind of problem with their membrane? Is this who I think it is? Heh Heh Doctor?

LBM

[QUOTE=LittleBigMan]Not too many people have this kind of problem with their membrane? Is this who I think it is? Heh Heh Doctor?

LBM[/QUOTE]
Yeah... looks like Jackson has let him out of his cage ...

Regards to you both,
Daddy

[QUOTE=China 69] I went to talk to a doctor about it and he said I probably just caught some bacteria (from oral sex) that caused a urinary tract infection and my immune system fought it off.
So that's my story, I thought I would share it.[/QUOTE]

I got the same thing (urinary tract infection) back in 2005. My right testicle bloated to abnormal size, and I was shooting semen with traces of blood. Doctor put me on medication and I had to soak my balls in hot water twice everyday. This came from having BB sex with my part-time lover (a WG) when she was having her period. It's messy and bloody, but boy, did she love it. I guess the inner linings of her vagina is extremely sensitive during the menstruation period... I can be wrong at this...

Continued to have sex with her, even during her menstruation, but learnt to do it with a condom...hahaha

Hoeman

[quote=daddy07]yeah... looks like jackson has let him out of his cage ...

regards to you both,
daddy[/quote]

i heard the new name is pimpdaddy07?


imho,

when it comes to a urinary tract infection, in the beginning you just know something isn't right when you [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140][CodeWord140][/url], then as days goes by the feeling gets intense, then the opening becomes red and larger and even black spots start to appear. meantime each time you need to [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140][CodeWord140][/url] because of the pain you rather just hold it but when you can't you end up just peeing all over the place and yourself until you figure out the best way is to just sit. when you look at your bestfriend condition each day it seems he is saying to you " wtf do something ". even when you get on the medication it worsen until it gets better, meantime you are praying to god, that if it goes away soon and nothing serious i change my ways and be a good boy.

then about 10 days or so on the medication things start to turn and redness starts to go away and the opening starts to close, pissing is not as intense and you start to forget the promise you made to god! in all this drama during and after i still can't see how the fuck some guys continue to fuck through all the pain and problems when they are having a tract infection without missing a step?


lbm

You mean you guys haven't figured out who 3428 is?

the writing style is un mistakable. It can only be.........

[QUOTE=1Ball]You mean you guys haven't figured out who 3428 is?

the writing style is un mistakable. It can only be.........[/QUOTE]
Un-mistakable is right, but I recognized him immediately by only his member number: 3428 ...

That's his hat size ... :)

[QUOTE=Daddy07]Un-mistakable is right, but I recognized him immediately by only his member number: 3428 ...

That's his hat size ... :)[/QUOTE]


You sure that is his hat size... if so ... then it just couldn't be him? I need some help here?

LBM

[QUOTE=LittleBigMan]You sure that is his hat size... if so ... then it just couldn't be him? I need some help here?

LBM[/QUOTE]
... maybe it was his dick size ... I forget now ...

[QUOTE=Daddy07]... maybe it was his dick size ... I forget now ...[/QUOTE]


How can you forget something like that... 3428? That's like watching a ship go by your Condo Balconey and not seeing it?

LBM

I could give you a hint by writing just 1 word, and all would be revealed, but maybe he wants to remain anonymous?

[QUOTE=1Ball]I could give you a hint by writing just 1 word, and all would be revealed, but maybe he wants to remain anonymous?[/QUOTE]

That's not rocket science. One just have to check Member #3428's post history to find out what was his previous moniker.

Humm, don't see it, don't get it? Maybe I do need that one letter or one word?


LBM

[QUOTE=LittleBigMan]Humm, don't see it, don't get it? Maybe I do need that one letter or one word?


LBM[/QUOTE]

Clue attached. ;)

[QUOTE=Goyave]Clue attached. ;)[/QUOTE]
Yep ... the rabbit is back ...

[QUOTE=Goyave]Clue attached. ;)[/QUOTE]


Nice picture of rabbit, I want to kill and eat it what does a rabbit have to do with this topic? heh heh

LBM

I'll share my sort-of-funny story on this thread, and cross-post it on the reports thread (hope this is not forbidden).

On my very first time with a prostitute, I had condoms break on me THREE times in a row in the span of a few minutes. This was after years of 100% constant condom use (with girlfriends) with no breaking whatsoever. It happened in Nana a few months ago.

How did this happen? Well, in China, where I live, I always buy an orange box of Durex. They are called Durex Together here, they are extra lubricated and of normal thickness.

In Thailand I naturally reached for the exact same box, exact same packaging, also by Durex.

Only after having broken condoms 3 times did I read the fine print. It turns out the orange Durex condoms in Thailand are NOT extra lubricated, AND they are of the extra thin variety (and possibly calibrated smaller too, I'm not sure).

Why Durex packages condoms at opposite ends of the spectrum under the exact same packaging is anyone's guess.

For subsequent sessions, I bought normal condoms and brought my own lubricant and had no further problems.

The lesson: always read the fine print, gentlemen. Always read the fine print.

So I'm hooking up with this girl who has HPV (she is not a hooker). I'm not really happy about the idea of getting it myself, even though it's pretty benign for guys.

Anyone knows the chances of getting it, if fucking a woman regularly?

I could (and did) google it but I wanted the opinions of the experienced folks over here.

[QUOTE=Chill Out]So I'm hooking up with this girl who has HPV (she is not a hooker). I'm not really happy about the idea of getting it myself, even though it's pretty benign for guys.

Anyone knows the chances of getting it, if fucking a woman regularly?

I could (and did) google it but I wanted the opinions of the experienced folks over here.[/QUOTE]

HPV is a risk factor for throat cancer.....not benign.

[QUOTE=Lover Boy #2]HPV is a risk factor for throat cancer.....not benign.[/QUOTE]
Only certain strains, which are rare, are risk for cancer when it comes to hpv.

Had a horrible incident this past weekend in Samui -- had unprotected sex with a woman I barfined from a go-go. How it happened is a bit complicated -- I was drunk and having a little trouble getting completely aroused and she removed the condom and quickly slipped me in. We had sex for a couple minutes and then I realized what had happened. It was a horrible mistake and I'm of course super paranoid now. She claims it was the first time she had unprotected sex but I don't know if that's true and it doesn't mean she's necessarily clean.

Does anyone know what the general testing is for workers in go-go bars? And any advice on what to do next other than freak out?!

[QUOTE=Desi Guy]Does anyone know what the general testing is for workers in go-go bars? And any advice on what to do next other than freak out?![/QUOTE]
Sorry to hear it DG. Not sure what the practise is in Samui, nor at that particular gogo bar, but in many places in Pattaya girls are required to be tested monthly for the major STDs, and apparently they have a full work-up every six months. This means you are more likely to catch the nagging annoying STDs (e.g., warts, herpes, etc. tested for every six months) than the ones that kill you (e.g., HIV, tested for every month). All this was according to two different Pattaya gogo girls in June, one from Baccara, the other from Super Girl. But this is what happens in the top end gogo bars in Pattaya, not sure about your situation.

I will leave the medical advise to the medics on this board.

[QUOTE=Kumbu]but in many places in Pattaya girls are required to be tested monthly for the major STDs, and apparently they have a full work-up every six months...... All this was according to two different Pattaya gogo girls in June, one from Baccara, the other from Super Girl. [/QUOTE]
I've heard some bars test and many don't. Some test prior to employment, and other test periodically. But all the info on testing in the gogo bars is shady at best. If anyone knows what the true practice/policy is regarding testing in gogos please share. I've always been interested in this.

On another note, the massage parlors(soapies) in bkk do require testing. This is one of the reasons that most Thais tend to only patronize massage parlors.

A girl from Tilac in BKK insisted that she has to get tested once a month and bring the health slip back to mgmt at the bar.. Who knows if she's telling the truth.

[QUOTE=Desi Guy]Does anyone know what the general testing is for workers in go-go bars? And any advice on what to do next other than freak out?![/QUOTE]
As already pointed out, tests may be done but they might not be reliable. Only having yourself checked is reliable (after one to two weeks for most STDs, two weeks for HIV with a PCR-test, otherwise three months). Of course it is also possible to take prophylactic measures, ie. antibiotics for common STDs (eg. 1g azithromycin). As far as HIV is concerned there's also something called post-exposure prophylaxis (within 72hrs) but given your case my guess is that no doctor would consider the risk of infection high enough.
I guess many of us have been through similar periods of anxiety, and I wish you mental strength and good luck.

[quote=desi guy]
does anyone know what the general testing is for workers in go-go bars? and any advice on what to do next other than freak out?![/quote]

well, the first thing to do is not freak out. i have been in the medical field 20+ years and deal with this all the time. you situation is not unique, nor is your response. do not worry about the girl, worry about yourself, i.e.:

first of all, do you have any symptoms? burning when you [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord111][CodeWord111][/url]? pus like discharge in your shorts when you wake up in the morning? is there a mucas plug on the end of your dick your [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord109][CodeWord109][/url] has break through for your first [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140][CodeWord140][/url] in the morning? how about any weird sores (chancres) on your penis? any fever? what about pain in the testicles, or back or flank pain? if the answer to these questions are no and it has been 10-14 days, then you are most likely good, but not out of the woods.

see your primary care provider 90 days after your encounter with the bar girl and have a full std check along with hiv and syphilis. be specific that you want this testing done. unless she was an intravenous drug user or had a bi-sexual boyfriend you can get cleared of everything else.

when you go to your provider, tell them the truth. "i had unprotected sex with a sex provider and even though i have no symptoms i am still concerned about my health". this will leave no ambiguity and all your questions will be answered.

[QUOTE=Desi Guy]Had a horrible incident this past weekend in Samui -- had unprotected sex with a woman I barfined from a go-go. How it happened is a bit complicated -- I was drunk and having a little trouble getting completely aroused and she removed the condom and quickly slipped me in. We had sex for a couple minutes and then I realized what had happened. It was a horrible mistake and I'm of course super paranoid now. She claims it was the first time she had unprotected sex but I don't know if that's true and it doesn't mean she's necessarily clean.

Does anyone know what the general testing is for workers in go-go bars? And any advice on what to do next other than freak out?![/QUOTE]Well firstly, I have been stupid a few times myself, and I recently got a full screening done in Europe and was clear. It was painful waiting 10 days for the results however. Carmex has given you good advice, best to follow it.

As for whether the girls get checked, it is really up to the Bar and the Girl. The bar I use most, Rawhide on Soi Cowboy checks the girls every week for most stuff and once a month for HIV. It is usually done Saturday morning, and the girls carry little books which they will show you if you ask. Rawhide (and Long Gun) are owned by a Thai lady though, who seems to look after the girls well. Midnite Bar checks them Monthly/Three monthly for HIV. Others I have no clue. You can ask, but whether you trust the answer is up to you. A lot of people do ask, in fact a few girls have said to me "falang often ask that. "

A lot of the freelancers are terrified of being HIV positive and hence don't get checked as it will end their career, even though low cost treatment is apparently now available in LOS. Most girls in BKK are very good at using condoms however, and I am most of the time as well. One thing I have found a couple of times though is after you have been with the same girl a few times, and you are like "friends" (LOL), she stops using condoms. Watch out for that. I once remember lazily asking a old friend from Midnite Bar for a BJ one morning and next thing I knew she was bouncing up and down on me bareback.

Good luck! I hope it is good news.

PS I have a friend who works in Samui. She had only one customer in August. (well apart from me, but she came to BKK to see me).

I happened to have an accident once with a girl from Rainbow 4. It was literally an accieent (it just slipped off somehow... and I wasn't drunk or anything) and later it didn't give me peace of mind and I was too afraid to go do a check since during my first check even when I was almost 100% sure I didn't have a chance of contracting anything I nearly died of a stress waiting for the same-day result.

Mind you the unprotected accident happened for only a minute or so.

Does anyone know if girls at Rainbow 4 get checked regularly or if they get checked at all? This is some freaky stuff once you start thinking (and reading) about HIV.

Correct some bars requires testing, but its very easy to cheat as they dont have to show any id if they go to the std clinic in soi11. So the infected girls just ask a friend to take the test in their name.




[QUOTE=Amjeck]I've heard some bars test and many don't. Some test prior to employment, and other test periodically. But all the info on testing in the gogo bars is shady at best. If anyone knows what the true practice/policy is regarding testing in gogos please share. I've always been interested in this.

On another note, the massage parlors(soapies) in bkk do require testing. This is one of the reasons that most Thais tend to only patronize massage parlors.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Desi Guy]Had a horrible incident this past weekend in Samui -- had unprotected sex with a woman I barfined from a go-go. How it happened is a bit complicated -- I was drunk and having a little trouble getting completely aroused and she removed the condom and quickly slipped me in. We had sex for a couple minutes and then I realized what had happened. It was a horrible mistake and I'm of course super paranoid now. She claims it was the first time she had unprotected sex but I don't know if that's true and it doesn't mean she's necessarily clean.

Does anyone know what the general testing is for workers in go-go bars? And any advice on what to do next other than freak out?![/QUOTE]Hey guys,

Newly arrived on the scene and just read about DG's situation. Now I don't want to be a shit stirrer, but having trawled this heaven sent activity for the past decade, I know a lot of these establishments DON'T do legit tests.

Every massage parlour will have their panel clinics which will provide standard HIV/STD tests. However, many of the clinics, in the pretext of saving a buck, will just approve the procedure without actually conducting a test. I'm not finger pointing at all of them, but some of them do this.

I've heard that story from a few gals so they leave to go to another. True story. So all you gentlemen out there, don't forget your hats. Fifteen minutes of sheer pleasure will render you a lifetime of regret.

Play safe!

i tore my frenulum about 6 weeks ago during oral sex - a girl from [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord901][CodeWord901][/url]'s used her teeth a bit too much and it tore. for those who don't know, the frenulum is the thin tissue that connects the bell end of your penis to the shaft. it's the most sensitive part. anyway, tt slowly healed but now there is a scar and every time i have sex the scar breaks because there is very little "stretch room" if you take my meaning.

i went to the doc yesterday. he referred me to a dermatologist. she looked at my frenulum and told me that the problem was with the scarring. when it's stretched, the scarring cracks and the healing process starts all over again. she gave me some special gentle soap to use - it's actually not a soap but a soap-free cleanser so the scar doesn't dry out. she also recommended i apply vaseline to the scar to make it more loose, and to also apply it when i start having sex again (which won't be for a while).

the dermatologist i saw couldn't tell me when it would heal completely, or if it would ever heal enough that i wouldn't have to apply vaseline every time i want to have sex. i'll try this treatment for a few weeks and then get a second opinion if no improvement can be seen.

any suggestions? i've posted this on several health message boards as well. i just get the feeling that the doc might be wrong because she's a dermatologist - there must be another way to fix this. i'm even considering looking into plastic surgery, because as of now, i'm very afraid of not having sex for a very very long time.

Doc A's Reply to Mangofan; use DERMOVATE ointment (or analogous STRONG corticosteroid cream)on Your scar 2x daily for 2-3 weeks. This will soften the connective tissue considerably.

PS: Dr's fees are charged in pussy-info.

[quote=mangofan]i tore my frenulum about 6 weeks ago during oral sex - a girl from [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord901][CodeWord901][/url]'s used her teeth a bit too much and it tore. for those who don't know, the frenulum is the thin tissue that connects the bell end of your penis to the shaft. it's the most sensitive part. anyway, tt slowly healed but now there is a scar and every time i have sex the scar breaks because there is very little "stretch room" if you take my meaning.

i went to the doc yesterday. he referred me to a dermatologist. she looked at my frenulum and told me that the problem was with the scarring. when it's stretched, the scarring cracks and the healing process starts all over again. she gave me some special gentle soap to use - it's actually not a soap but a soap-free cleanser so the scar doesn't dry out. she also recommended i apply vaseline to the scar to make it more loose, and to also apply it when i start having sex again (which won't be for a while).

the dermatologist i saw couldn't tell me when it would heal completely, or if it would ever heal enough that i wouldn't have to apply vaseline every time i want to have sex. i'll try this treatment for a few weeks and then get a second opinion if no improvement can be seen.

any suggestions? i've posted this on several health message boards as well. i just get the feeling that the doc might be wrong because she's a dermatologist - there must be another way to fix this. i'm even considering looking into plastic surgery, because as of now, i'm very afraid of not having sex for a very very long time.[/quote]

oi mate!

i had the same problem two years ago.
frenulum damaged. it was just a small wound, but it caused big problems. i don 't need to tell you that... ;)

but i was suggested a circumcision, with the frenulum totally removed...

i don;t regret that decision. my cock looks better... :d, and it is much cleaner also.

i hope this information helps a bit...

[QUOTE=Frankypanky]Oi mate!

I had the same problem two years ago.
Frenulum damaged. It was just a small wound, but it caused BIG problems. I don 't need to tell you that... ;)

But i was suggested a circumcision, with the frenulum totally removed...

I don;t regret that decision. My cock looks better... :D, and it is much cleaner also.

I hope this information helps a bit...[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the reply. Any idea how much a circumcision or a frenuplasty would cost in Bangkok? I have BUPA health insurance through my school, but I'm not sure if they would cover a procedure like that.

[quote=mangofan]i tore my frenulum about 6 weeks ago during oral sex - a girl from [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord901][CodeWord901][/url]'s used her teeth a bit too much and it tore. for those who don't know, the frenulum is the thin tissue that connects the bell end of your penis to the shaft. it's the most sensitive part. anyway, tt slowly healed but now there is a scar and every time i have sex the scar breaks because there is very little "stretch room" if you take my meaning.

i went to the doc yesterday. he referred me to a dermatologist. she looked at my frenulum and told me that the problem was with the scarring. when it's stretched, the scarring cracks and the healing process starts all over again. she gave me some special gentle soap to use - it's actually not a soap but a soap-free cleanser so the scar doesn't dry out. she also recommended i apply vaseline to the scar to make it more loose, and to also apply it when i start having sex again (which won't be for a while).

the dermatologist i saw couldn't tell me when it would heal completely, or if it would ever heal enough that i wouldn't have to apply vaseline every time i want to have sex. i'll try this treatment for a few weeks and then get a second opinion if no improvement can be seen.

any suggestions? i've posted this on several health message boards as well. i just get the feeling that the doc might be wrong because she's a dermatologist - there must be another way to fix this. i'm even considering looking into plastic surgery, because as of now, i'm very afraid of not having sex for a very very long time.[/quote]have you tried mederma or another scar reducer?

went to the hospital today to see a urologist about the scar. he recommended a frenuplasty, so an hour later i was on the operating table. the worst part of it was the actual injection which went straight into the base of my cock - hurts like hell. but now i have a bandage around it (which comes off tomorrow). he said that i should be ready for action again in about 2-3 weeks.

total cost: 12,000 baht.

lesson learned: if you feel the girl biting down on your cock in [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord900][CodeWord900][/url], make her stop - no matter how close you are to cumming or how drunk you are.

[QUOTE=Artfuldodger]Hey guys,

Newly arrived on the scene and just read about DG's situation. Now I don't want to be a shit stirrer, but having trawled this heaven sent activity for the past decade, I know a lot of these establishments DON'T do legit tests.

Every massage parlour will have their panel clinics which will provide standard HIV/STD tests. However, many of the clinics, in the pretext of saving a buck, will just approve the procedure without actually conducting a test. I'm not finger pointing at all of them, but some of them do this.

I've heard that story from a few gals so they leave to go to another. True story. So all you gentlemen out there, don't forget your hats. Fifteen minutes of sheer pleasure will render you a lifetime of regret.

Play safe![/QUOTE]

DG, no one talks about the chances of getting HIV from a woman who already has HIV. The plain fact is that it is easier for a woman to get HIV from a man than the other way around. Second, you don't automatically get HIV from an infected partner through having unprotected sex one time. According to one expert I spoke with a couple of years ago, the probability of HIV infection after one episode of unprotected sex with an infected woman is about 1 in 250 for the man. In contrast, the chances of infection through sharing needles is almost 100% if the needle is "hot."

THat said, lots of other factors will vastly increase the odds against you - such as if you already have another sexually transmitted infection or have some sort of sore or cut on your penis, been circumcised etc. It also depends on when the other person was infected - not immediately after infection but some time after being infected, the person will become much more infective than later.

The chances that the girl was infected is not high, simply because of the policies of establishments where girls work. I am not referring to the claims that bars or massage places test regularly - frankly speaking, it is so easy to fake negative tests in Thailand that these papers are not worth the paper they are written on. Instead, it is the fact that bars and massage parlors will fire anyone with any STD. The fact that they fire those with STDs makes it vastly less likely that you will encounter someone with HIV in that establishment.

What this boils down to is as follows: there are compelling reasons to use protection at all times when you are mongering but there is no reason to be unduly concerned about an accidental unprotected episode.

The chances that you were infected by one exposure is very small. These chances dramatically rise if you try unprotected sex with certain kinds of freelancers, ie those using drugs who don't care about themselves, those with multiple partners but don't really understand safe sex. Although with professional sex workers within establishments the chances of being infected through one accidental exposure are quite low (possibly lower than with the general public!), the reality is that repeated exposure will increase your chances of getting all sorts of STDs. And if you already have an STD (that you may not know yet about), you are much more likely to get HIV when you will inevitably become exposed to it after many many episodes of unprotected sex.

[QUOTE=Mangofan]Thanks for the reply. Any idea how much a circumcision or a frenuplasty would cost in Bangkok? I have BUPA health insurance through my school, but I'm not sure if they would cover a procedure like that.[/QUOTE]

BUPA Insurance is basically Blue Cross Insurance in the States, BUPA Insurance is the name in the UK. My assumption is that you have BUPA from Thailand thru the school you are teaching.

Personally, insurance here is much different than the States so I will say " you don't get what you think you got " Reading your policy I suggest would be a good idea. Insurance policy here comes in all different shape and sizes!

Your policy might not include " Outpatient " services and if the procedure is one then or course it isn't covered? But being Thailand even if it was a " Outpatient procedure " they would make it a " Overnight Procedure " for precaution and therefore make it cover? But I believe this procedure would fall within the " Exclusion " The insurance does not cover the admission resulting in the following.

1. Investigation or treatment for sexual dysfunction or sex change
4. Treatment to relieve symptoms commonly associated with ageing,
menopause or precaocious puberty.

You might be able to get it cover if you get the Doctor it is a necessary procedure. So it never hurts to ask?

Insurance in Thailand is a big rip-off, but if you have nothing it's still better to have something in my opinion. But companies like BUPA, AIA,(AIG) are American own companies and read the fine print and you will see it is loaded with provisions and exlusion never seen in the western world. In the States you have laws against such things but here it is the wild west to load the policies with what I call "grey areas "so they don't have to cover much. If you have a BUPA policy look at one of their exclusions wording for back problems, Exclusion (G) Degeneration of Disc, this would fall into a big grey area which no coverage is allow since 95% of us on retirement have this problem? The exclusion list goes on and on?

Good luck and God help us all, but why would he since we are here breaking nearly all the Ten Commandments!

LBM

[QUOTE=LittleBigMan]BUPA Insurance is basically Blue Cross Insurance in the States, BUPA Insurance is the name in the UK. My assumption is that you have BUPA from Thailand thru the school you are teaching.

Personally, insurance here is much different than the States so I will say " you don't get what you think you got " Reading your policy I suggest would be a good idea. Insurance policy here comes in all different shape and sizes!

Your policy might not include " Outpatient " services and if the procedure is one then or course it isn't covered? But being Thailand even if it was a " Outpatient procedure " they would make it a " Overnight Procedure " for precaution and therefore make it cover? But I believe this procedure would fall within the " Exclusion " The insurance does not cover the admission resulting in the following.

1. Investigation or treatment for sexual dysfunction or sex change
4. Treatment to relieve symptoms commonly associated with ageing,
menopause or precaocious puberty.

You might be able to get it cover if you get the Doctor it is a necessary procedure. So it never hurts to ask?

Insurance in Thailand is a big rip-off, but if you have nothing it's still better to have something in my opinion. But companies like BUPA, AIA,(AIG) are American own companies and read the fine print and you will see it is loaded with provisions and exlusion never seen in the western world. In the States you have laws against such things but here it is the wild west to load the policies with what I call "grey areas "so they don't have to cover much. If you have a BUPA policy look at one of their exclusions wording for back problems, Exclusion (G) Degeneration of Disc, this would fall into a big grey area which no coverage is allow since 95% of us on retirement have this problem? The exclusion list goes on and on?

Good luck and God help us all, but why would he since we are here breaking nearly all the Ten Commandments!

LBM[/QUOTE]



Thanks for your reply. I have BUPA through my school and on the card it says what it covers. One of thie things it covers is "Surgery: 70,000 (Per Schedule)". Now when I went to the Urologist I asked the receptionist there if my insurance would cover the frenuplasty. I showed her my BUPA card and she said that it would cover it. I asked the doctor the same question, showing him my card. He guaranteed me that it would. "Are you sure?" I asked. "Yes. Absolutely." Before the procedure I went out to reception again and the lady wrote down the amount: 10,000 baht. I asked again - is this covered by my insurance? Yes, of course.

After the procedure, a nurse walked me over to the cashier where I was to receive my meds. The cashier wrote down a number: 12,892 baht. I presented my BUPA card. "Sorry sir, it's not covered." I told her that I asked 3 times upstairs and they had told me that it was covered. Even the doctor said so. "Sorry sir, it's not covered." I explained again.

"You must pay now, and maybe you can get it back later when you call your insurance company."
"Well, I don't have any money, so I'm not paying."

At this point she calls someone to come down and talk to me. Some PR person from the international section of the hospital who tried to get me to pay. She informed me that they couldn't get ahold of BUPA, but would I mind paying now and this could be resolved later?

"I don't have any money to pay"
"What about your credit cards?"
"I don't have any credit cards."

When she finally realized that I wasn't about to pay my bill, she asked for my telephone number (which I gave) and said she would call me in a few days when they could get my insurance company on the phone. This was yesterday.

I'm not trying to skip out on the bill, but when I am guaranteed that the insurance company will cover a procedure by 2 different people (including a doctor) and then suddenly I am fucked when I try to check out, I'm not about to bend over and take it up the ass.

[QUOTE=Yin Yang]As already pointed out, tests may be done but they might not be reliable. Only having yourself checked is reliable (after one to two weeks for most STDs, two weeks for HIV with a PCR-test, otherwise three months). Of course it is also possible to take prophylactic measures, ie. Antibiotics for common STDs (eg. 1g azithromycin). As far as HIV is concerned there's also something called post-exposure prophylaxis (within 72hrs) but given your case my guess is that no doctor would consider the risk of infection high enough.[/QUOTE]This is a serious psycological problem. You think you're going to die and the doctor doesn't consider your risk high enough.

An accident happened to me with a prostitute form Ghana (condom broke inside her pussy we both didn't realize). While I was trying to calm down I realised next morning while showering that I had a kind of scratch an my penis.

Went to the doctor and exaggerated the accident in order to get this post-exposure prophylaxe for sure. He gave me the anticipated prescription and helped my through the next weeks with all the testing. Everything went fine.

Total damage: 2100 EUR (100 for the girl, 1500 for the PEP pills, 500 for all the tests and doctor's fees, I decided better not to ask my insurance company if they cover since I didn't want to be stated as a risk person in their files). Quite expensive for a few minutes of pleasure.

Mangofan,

Where you went wrong is like most people including me! Until you get fucked you just assume? When you said it is on your card " Surgery " yes it covers Surgery but the large coverage book your school didn't give you or you didn't read it? is my reference to the fine print! But if the fine print says the condition or procedure isn't covered then surely the surgery for it isn't going to be covered.

Your story I have heard a millions times by these so call hospitals personel!
" Can't get a hold of Buppa " that is why never just assume because the hospital tells you! Get the approval yourself by going to a Bupa office!

As for the hospital, I wouldn't give them anything that they can get their hands on to attach your wages etc... I would stand pad and stick to my guns and name all the individuals that told you yes along with blaming the individuals responsible for handling the billing who should have gotten the approval from Buppa prior to surgery! In your case, they lied! What is it can't get a hold of them or is it not covered? If they couldn't get a hold of them how would they know it wasn't covered? There is no such thing as can't get the approval! If they went ahead with the surgery prior to the approval that is their fucking problem. Let them come after you! when you are backed into the corner then pay up! If what you said is true you hold the cards now!

I have seen them do this before at the Bangkok/Pattaya promise you because they know but pull this type of shit knowing that a majority of people would pay up front and after it's your problem not theirs. They aren't the ones that got to deal with Buppa. Here get it in writing next time! There is also a hospital accreditation commission in Thailand which I would tell them you will file a report! only with them quoting you 10,000 with insurance then without for you Farang it is now 12,000 plus!

Stick to your guns and let this be a lesson to them. Even if they made a police report WTF are they going to do? Tell the police politely this is the hospital problem and yours they made the mistake no once but three times.
Be calm and use knowledge on them reverse the table.

Good luck, you should have not have dick around with your dick?

LBM

I say fuck them

[QUOTE=LittleBigMan]Mangofan,

If they couldn't get a hold of them how would they know it wasn't covered? [/QUOTE]


Exactly. I think they tried to get ahold of Bupa, couldn't, so they just said it wasn't covered hoping I'd pay up. I have the money, but fuck them - they told me it was covered. I'm not paying them the full amount. They don't have my passport or anything - all they have is a copy of my BUPA card, which does list my workplace. I do have an appointment on Saturday for the doctor to remove the sutures, so I have to go back. No phone call from them today but they'll probably try and call tomorrow.

Mangofan,

If the school gets involved just respond politely that this is a situation between me and the hospital. If I was you I would go to another hospital since you are going to have to pay for the removal anyway. Just tell them you have a problem with the hospital that did the procedure and heard that your hospital was good. Short and sweet!

Contact Bupa, not over the phone and ask them yourself if the procedure is covered, if so you are off the hook! If not ask them if they would have cover based on the coverage what your deductible would have been. Go back to the hospital and pay them this amount if they accept that is payment accepted! Personally I do not believe they try to contact them! The policy is clear and not on your card! This I would consider to be a cosmetic type surgery! Don't allow being in Thailand escape the fact that in nearly all Western countries insurance requires hospitals to have pre-approval of a procedure unless this is a emergency! Based on the amount of the procedure they lied knowing most would pay up because of the amount. If it was like 100,000 baht I bet you the procedure would never have been preform until they had approval. This is the hospital mistake!

If not tell them jokingly if they want to be paid, reverse the operation! return the goods since they lied!

Good luck, LBM

[QUOTE=Simian]THat said, lots of other factors will vastly increase the odds against you - such as if you already have another sexually transmitted infection or have some sort of sore or cut on your penis, been circumcised etc. It also depends on when the other person was infected - not immediately after infection but some time after being infected, the person will become much more infective than later.
[/QUOTE]

...."been circumcised".......it's the other way around......the claim is that circumcision lessens the chances of HIV infection....not the other way around.


[url]http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/factsheets/circumcision.htm[/url]

[QUOTE=Lover Boy #2]...."been circumcised".......it's the other way around......the claim is that circumcision lessens the chances of HIV infection....not the other way around.


[url]http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/factsheets/circumcision.htm[/url][/QUOTE]
Of course you are right.

Ying yang, I am interested in finding out what you can tell me about azithromycin as a prophylactic against gonorrhea (and chlamydia). I am planning on using a condom for all 'real sex,' but BJs are just not worth it with a condom IMHO.

What are the doses and regime you use? Where did you get the info? How much does it cost?

[quote=mangofan]went to the hospital today to see a urologist about the scar. he recommended a frenuplasty, so an hour later i was on the operating table. the worst part of it was the actual injection which went straight into the base of my cock - hurts like hell. but now i have a bandage around it (which comes off tomorrow). he said that i should be ready for action again in about 2-3 weeks.

total cost: 12,000 baht.

lesson learned: if you feel the girl biting down on your cock in [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord900][CodeWord900][/url], make her stop - no matter how close you are to cumming or how drunk you are.[/quote]

oi mate!

nice to know that the shit is done!
12000 baht? that's aprox. 240 euro! i thought it would be much cheaper. mine costed 300 euro (in holland).

ah well...so you are 'saving' for a big blast now... :d

all the best to you!

Dear Mongers,

Does any body has reliable information on massage parlors which set up their own STDs check on a regular basis? Annie's and Eden claim to do so. I've never been to Eden but for Annie's it seems to makes sense to me since the providers I know there behave like they have been well informeded on STDs and safe sex. Annie's is also one of the few licenced parlors.

What about the other places like Mango, Tulip, Snow white? Are the girls only required to show a test result once a year or is it a little more serious than that?

Are soapies, generally speaking, safer? Do they check? Do the services are more on the safer sex side (CBJ, never bareback.)?

Any piece of Info much appreciated!

Best,

K.

[QUOTE=Franco Cozzo]Ying yang, I am interested in finding out what you can tell me about azithromycin as a prophylactic against gonorrhea (and chlamydia). I am planning on using a condom for all 'real sex,' but BJs are just not worth it with a condom IMHO.
What are the doses and regime you use? Where did you get the info? How much does it cost?[/QUOTE]
I certainly wouldn't recommend using any antibiotics merely for prophylaxis. They have side effects and taking them without proper diagnosis may increase the chances of creating drug resistant bacteria strains. That being said, azithromycin is known to be very effective againt chlamydia (and, to some extent, gonorrhea) and can be taken in a single dose of 1g, which makes it practical to take it after some risky practices (such as BBBJ) if you feel worried. The drug is available over the counter in Thailand for around 500 Baht.

Anyone can recommend a good condom, ie., one that allows you to actually feel you are having sex? Needs to be larger than average as the ones I've tried squeeze so hard my dick goes numb.

I searched the forum with words like best/condom/sensitive but way to many reports come back that happen to have those key words but not about the subject.

I looked through the safe sex forum for 2010 but didn't find anything so I am doing a direct request.

I did find a 2009 report in the "General Reports" that recommended a couple but would like to get anyone else's suggestion.

Thanks in advance.

[QUOTE=Slackerslacker]Anyone can recommend a good condom, ie., one that allows you to actually feel you are having sex? Needs to be larger than average as the ones I've tried squeeze so hard my dick goes numb.

I searched the forum with words like best/condom/sensitive but way to many reports come back that happen to have those key words but not about the subject.

I looked through the safe sex forum for 2010 but didn't find anything so I am doing a direct request.

I did find a 2009 report in the "General Reports" that recommended a couple but would like to get anyone else's suggestion.

Thanks in advance.[/QUOTE]


Hey Slackerslacker,

Try Pleasure Plus. Its maker is the Global Protection Corporation of Boston. Good quality without the rubber odor.

Cheers

A158

[QUOTE=A158]Hey Slackerslacker,

Try Pleasure Plus. Its maker is the Global Protection Corporation of Boston. Good quality without the rubber odor.

Cheers

A158[/QUOTE]

Thanks for info. Do you know if it can be found in Thailand?
If not, I will check it out next time I am in USA

Sagami 0. 02 millimeter super strong super thin. Every girl I used it with keeps checking if I was still wearing a condom. You really can't tell the difference. It has great heat transfer too. I buy mine through japan mail order. GET IT you will never use anything else even Bareback again.

[QUOTE=A158]Hey Slackerslacker,

Try Pleasure Plus. Its maker is the Global Protection Corporation of Boston. Good quality without the rubber odor.

Cheers

A158[/QUOTE]

Hi Folks,

This is a very interesting thread and I think I will learn more about safe mongering in Thailand.

I always use condom both for pussy and ass fucking, better with some lube to ease friction, so I consider myself quite careful.

On the other hand, I like to get BBBJ and I am eager to experience it with a see. I. M. Or see. O. F. Ending, which I am not used to do in my country since it costs twice.

So my question is: which chances are involved in see. I. M. If girl was infected?

Sagami Original 002 is available in BKK? If yes where.

As always. Thanks for the help.

AK

these quotes are from the pattaya thread.

[quote=trevor2522; 1097402]no problem. i have been using master mineral supplement for the past 2 years. knocks out all pathogens. also brush my teeth with it. taking the maintenance dose of 4-6 drops daily is highly protective against stds as well as being a general tonic. if required the dose can be increased until symptoms are gone. also cleans out dengue and malaria within hours. why isn't everyone using mms? because the globalist-controlled big pharma and media ignore it.

[url]www.infowars.com[/url]

do your homework and live life to the full!

[url]http://jimhumble.biz/site/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2&itemid=21[/url]

thailand supplier.

[url]http://miraclemineral.org/suppliers.php[/url]

stds are nothing. the real challenge is finding tight girls without babies or an attitude! [/quote][quote=dinghy; 1097975]sorry to tell you this trev but "minerals" are totally ineffective against stds.

you might as well drop snake oil into / onto yourself. will work just as well. [/quote][quote=mouse1; 1097444]i drink neat bleach for breakfast, and i have never had hiv / aids. can't be a coincidence.

alternatively you could believe the fda:

on july 30th. 2010 and again on october 1, 2010, the united states food and drug administration warned against the use of the product "miracle mineral supplement" or "mms". which when made up according to instructions produces chlorine dioxide. mms has been marketed as a treatment for a variety of conditions. the fda warning told consumers that this industrial bleach can cause serious complications, including severe dehydration, nausea and diarrhea. there have been no reported deaths from use of mms; however the fda has received numerous reports of nausea, severe vomiting, and life-threatening low blood pressure caused by dehydration. [22] the makers of mms do state that nausea and vomiting is a sign that it is working. licensed medical professionals and toxicologists would not agree with this statement.

but they laughed at galieo, didn't they? [/quote]i tried mms twice. the first time i took 4 drops and was okay. the second time i took 8 drops and got severe nausea followed by one week of diarrhea. i guess i should have stuck with 4 drops like the first poster. perhaps there is a better alternative.

[url]http://healthyoldcodger.com/[/url]

iodine, pathogen killer extraordinaire.

as far back as 1905 iodine was recognized as a treatment for consumption / tuberculosis. even though iodine has been recognized as having the ability to kill most pathogens on the skin within 90 seconds, it has been ignored by modern medicine for all that time, does not that tell you something? going even further back to the american civil war, iodine was used extensively for treating battlefield wounds and with much success, in fact, without iodine many more soldiers from both sides would have died from wound infections, no antibiotics back then.

"iodine is by far the best antibiotic, antiviral and antiseptic of all time." dr. david derry.

[url]http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/ciencia_iodine01.htm[/url]

nascent iodine is a scientific term for iodine where the iodine molecule has the diatomic bond broken and has a high amount of electromagnetic energy associated with it.

once diluted and inside the body this atom is readily absorbed and utilized by the body. this charged atom of iodine starts a process where it gradually loses its energy over 2 to 3 hours. after the atomic iodine has made its rounds, whatever then remains and is unable to be used is excreted in the [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord109][CodeWord109][/url]. the [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord109][CodeWord109][/url] will turn bright yellow from the excess, similar to what happens with water-soluble b-vitamins that the body doesn't need.

"the atomic iodine is perhaps the least toxic and least irritating of all the iodine formulas available."

"iodine has many positive therapeutic actions. it is a potent anti-infective agent. no virus, bacteria or parasite has been shown to be resistant to iodine therapy," writes dr. brownstein.

this is an incredible statement but one that can easily be backed by hardcore medical science. it is the reason hospitals use iodine by the gallon and in reality the only reason hospitals are not like ground zero sites contaminated in an infectious sense is because of iodine's broad spectrum anti-infective power.

few are the doctors who have realized that iodine can be taken internally in large quantities and that it will have the same effect internally as it does on external surfaces.

there has been a lot of commotion in health circles about a product called miracle mineral supplement (mms). it is being advertised as the answer to aids, hepatitis a, b and c, malaria, herpes, tb, most cancer and many more of mankind's worst diseases.

the claim about how the chlorine (a poison, not what would be considered a mineral for health) interacts with pathogens is the same claim we can make about iodine (a safe nutritional mineral) , which is known to also kill pathogens of all types on contact.

If you think for maybe 15-20 seconds you'll figure out that there is no such thing as a magic chemical that can tell the difference between a "pathogen" and your dick. Anything that kills a "pathogen" is inherently a poison. This includes antibiotics. The world is full of quacks eager to sell you a bottle of something that either won't work, might kill you, or both. We take small doses of these poisons under certain circumstances because it leads to better outcomes than not taking the poisons. Doing this without killing yourself requires actual science, not voodoo. That's why there are regulations, clinical trials and publication of research data. I do not imagine Big Pharma to be my friend, but don't be so eager to dismiss it and run to the pharmaceutical equivalent of a tuk-tuk driver.

[QUOTE=Etaoin2003;1103817]I do not imagine Big Pharma to be my friend, but don't be so eager to dismiss it and run to the pharmaceutical equivalent of a tuk-tuk driver.[/QUOTE]Very well said

Please be warned, I've seen consumer programs on television test the MMS and its basically just industrial cleaner.

It won't do you any good, it will do you harm if you take more then just a few drops.

The only way to be safe is to practice safe sex. Bring your condoms, I do!

[QUOTE=Etaoin2003;1103817]If you think for maybe 15-20 seconds you'll figure out that there is no such thing as a magic chemical that can tell the difference between a "pathogen" and your dick. Anything that kills a "pathogen" is inherently a poison. This includes antibiotics. The world is full of quacks eager to sell you a bottle of something that either won't work, might kill you, or both. We take small doses of these poisons under certain circumstances because it leads to better outcomes than not taking the poisons. Doing this without killing yourself requires actual science, not voodoo. That's why there are regulations, clinical trials and publication of research data. I do not imagine Big Pharma to be my friend, but don't be so eager to dismiss it and run to the pharmaceutical equivalent of a tuk-tuk driver.[/QUOTE]

I would be most interested on some feedback on the above condom, couple of members have posted of their satisfaction when using Sagami 0. 02 condoms. In fact it felt like bareback to one chap. Sounds encouraging?

Prior to ordering, I would like to be sure.

[QUOTE=Noddy; 1106536]I would be most interested on some feedback on the above condom, couple of members have posted of their satisfaction when using Sagami 0. 02 condoms. In fact it felt like bareback to one chap. Sounds encouraging?

Prior to ordering, I would like to be sure. [/QUOTE]I tried them and I also had the experience of the girl thinking I had nothing on. They also felt better than my normal Trojan Magnums in that regard. I have one complaint though. Even though I bought size large they were very tough to get on and too small in diameter. I mentioned this to a friend and he told me that Trojan also has an ultrathin that is larger. I do not know what the thickness is and have not tried them but would like to.

[QUOTE=Edward M;1106658]I mentioned this to a friend and he told me that Trojan also has an ultrathin that is larger. I do not know what the thickness is and have not tried them but would like to.[/QUOTE]You cannot compare SAGAMI condoms with the rest, it; s not a Fair Fight!
Sagami are made of Polyurethane which is Flexible, Tough and Resistant. it is Thinner, Tougher (3x tougher than Latex), conducts heat Better, is odourless and oh very important in Thailand: Oil Resistant.

once you try one, Going back to Latex will be very difficult ;)

HIV Drugs May Prevent Infection in Healthy Individuals.

By Alice Park Tuesday, November 23, 2010

As effective as the antiviral drugs have been in controlling the spread of HIV, the ultimate goal of any AIDS therapy is to prevent infection with the virus in the first place. And so far, nothing — from vaccines to gels — has proven up to the task of holding off HIV.

But in an exciting study published in the New England Journal of Medicine, researchers report that the very drugs that have helped to quell HIV in already infected patients may be effective in blocking infection in healthy, uninfected individuals as well. (More on Time. Com: How Not to Get Sick)

In a trial involving nearly 2, 500 HIV-negative gay men who were at high risk of contracting HIV, in six countries, scientists found that those who took the currently prescribed treatment dose of a combination anti-HIV medications known as Truvada had a 44% lower rate of HIV infection than those taking a placebo during the study's longest follow up of nearly three years. Among those who took their medications more faithfully on a daily basis, the benefit was even greater; their risk of acquiring HIV dropped to 73% compared to placebo.

'These results represent a major advance in HIV prevention research, ' said Dr. Kevin Fenton, director of the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) National Center for HIV-AIDS, Viral Hepatitis, STD and TB Prevention in a statement. 'For the first time, we have evidence that a daily pill used to treat HIV is partially effective for preventing HIV among gay and bisexual men at high risk for infection. '

The excitement was echoed by others in the HIV community, who have been pushing for a stronger preventive strategy to combat the growing epidemic of cases, particularly in the developing world. 'The study is really quite impressive, and the data are very robust, really strong, ' says Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institutes of Health's National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases. The NIH, along with the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, funded the study, which took place at 11 different sites. (More on Time. Com: Are HIV Rates in Gay Men Really 'Out of Control'?)

Fauci is particularly encouraged by the data, since a closer look at the difference in HIV infection rates among those taking medications suggests that any exposure to the potent anti-HIV drugs can be effective in thwarting infection. For instance, among those in the drug arm, the volunteers who showed any measurable level of medication, no matter how faithfully they were popping their daily pills, had a 13-fold lower rate of HIV infection than those who showed no measurable level of drug in their system. 'This is really huge; this is a very impressive result, ' he says. 'As with any new treatment strategy, it's all about whether you adhere to the regimen. '

In fact, Fauci suspects that many physicians are already prescribing antiretroviral medications this way, in an attempt to head off infections in uninfected but high-risk individuals. These findings should bolster that practice, he believes, even as government health officials decide whether the results are robust enough to justify recommending anti-HIV drugs as a prevention strategy.

In the meantime, while the positive results suggest that antiretroviral drugs may be a critical part of a strong prevention program, experts note that the findings are not a license to abandon safe sex with condoms. The drugs do not alter the immune system in any way, nor does it prime the body the way that a vaccine would against HIV. These medications act only in the presence of HIV, to block its ability to infect and replicate in the body's healthy cells, so the prevention strategy simply ensures that the drugs are in place, ready to act at the first encounter with the virus. The study participants were also all educated about risk-reduction practices, such as safe sex, and were provided with condoms and counseling as well as treatment for sexually transmitted diseases. (More on Time. Com: Portugal's Drug Experience: New Study Confirms Decriminalization Was a Success)

'[The] results are exciting, but it is not time for anyone to stop using condoms or stop following proven prevention methods, ' said Fenton. '[The study] cannot be seen as the first line of defense against HIV. '

Fauci agrees, adding that more research will be needed to assess the effectiveness of the drugs in preventing infection among women, as well as heterosexual men. And because the drugs do have side effects, including potentially unhealthy changes in lipid levels, other studies will also investigate whether people could use the drugs intermittently as a prevention-based strategy — only, for example, when they plan on being sexually active.

Read more: [url]http://healthland.time.com/2010/11/23/hiv-drugs-may-prevent-infection-in-healthy-individuals/[/url]#ixzz1CL7lo7Cs

All highly dubious in my opinion. What a laugh. So who benefits. Pharmaceutical Industry does.

Preventative medicines. Broad grin. The cash register goes. Sching!

Has anyone tried them on a BG see how much of laughter you can get out of them? But seriously, does anyone think they would object to it for DATY?

Hey guys,

I'm posting here as I'm not sure where to post and it seems there are as many experienced guys in here as anywhere.

A side note: I have not been to Thailand so this question is general. Hopefully that doesn't offend anyone.

I recently noticed some irritation and went to the doc to see about what I thougth was just a UTI problem. After some testing it turned out I had gonorrhea and a touch of vaginosis of all things (not even considered an std by some). He gave me 7 days of the dioxycine (sp?) and symptoms disappeared. A follow up test came up totally clean on everything. I should mention that the list of stuff I don't have (negative tests) is long. No HIV, herpes, on and on.

Unfortunately, I had to go back to see him as I'm experiencing the beginning symptoms again. Zero partners so I know it's not a re-infection. This time he did the prostate / massage test and I'm expecting results this coming week. I can't imagine how it won't come back as re-infected.

My question is how worried should I be and has anyone had good luck with more serious anti-biotics and had %100 clean bill of health afterwards?

I'd greatly appreciater any feedback you can give. I'm trying not to freak out too much about it. Thanks for help or relaying any experiences.

Does anyone have experience with female condoms and find that they are much more.

Like having bareback sex than regular covers?

[QUOTE=NicFrenchy; 1106664]You cannot compare SAGAMI condoms with the rest, it; s not a Fair Fight!

Sagami are made of Polyurethane which is Flexible, Tough and Resistant. It is Thinner, Tougher (3x tougher than Latex) , conducts heat Better, is odourless and oh very important in Thailand: Oil Resistant.

Once you try one, Going back to Latex will be very difficult.[/QUOTE]Where do you buy these?

[QUOTE=Simian;1089353]DG, no one talks about the chances of getting HIV from a woman who already has HIV. The plain fact is that it is easier for a woman to get HIV from a man than the other way around. Second, you don't automatically get HIV from an infected partner through having unprotected sex one time. According to one expert I spoke with a couple of years ago, the probability of HIV infection after one episode of unprotected sex with an infected woman is about 1 in 250 for the man. In contrast, the chances of infection through sharing needles is almost 100% if the needle is "hot."[/QUOTE]I could be wrong, but one in 250 seems quite low. I'd think maybe add a zero to that. And several zeros if we are speaking of unprotected vaginal intercourse with a random woman.

[url]http://www.hiv.va.gov/vahiv?page=ptfaq-2006-03-20[/url]

I've heard it said there is a better chance of getting struck by lightning, winning a million dollar lotto or being killed crossing the street. BTW at least one member here appears to have been getting BBFS for years without contracting HIV. Personally I've recieved dozens and hours of BBBJ's without ever getting even a minor STD.

[QUOTE=]AIDS (to get this out of the way at the outset) : Indulging in sex in.

Thailand is like participating in a high-risk sport where you have no.

Control over your equipment. Sky-diving without knowing who packed your.

Chute, for example; or with no chute at all. The risk is real; there's.

More than a 50% chance your partner (s) will be HIV positive. If you are.

Particularly naive, you can take comfort from the "100% AIDS-Free" badges.

The girls wear in some places. It's your life.[/QUOTE]Fifty percent? That has to be one of the dumbest things ever said on international sex forums, this particular comment coming from a site that is not ISG.

"I suggest you do not arrive in SE Asia (Thailand / Philippines) seeking to have a good time and SEX with the ever willing mature adult girls, women, hookers, escorts of Thailand, without first having your Hepatitis B (and pref A) vaccinations. More Hep B and more fatal deaths than with HIV / Aids, world wide, including Thailand."

That's news to me. Any comments?

i posted this in the bangkok section but i might as well post it here:

went to cowboy a few nights back with a mate. shocking how crowded it was. 25th of the month is when most people get paid, so pretty much all the go-gos were crowded beyond belief. #73 in shark is quite a cutie and has made my list of girls to fuck in the low season. finally made our way to the cocktail club. it's a fairly small and shady dive between long gun and cactus. there are 1 or 2 lookers; the rest are all skanks. anyway i took a girl to the toilet where she proceed to give me a bbbj. one of the worst ever. she was using her teeth too much and i was afraid of having a repeat of what happened to me at [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord900][CodeWord900][/url] a few months back (torn frenulum). i stopped her and offered her 700 baht for a fuck in the stall. bent her over and plunged in. not bad and a first for me.

i do not remember her name but i will be sure to get it and here is why. this morning (tuesday) i woke up and went to the toilet and had a very very slight burning sensation when i pissed. it did not hurt too bad unlike the last time i had this but it was still uncomfortable enough to get me worried. later in the day i went to the toilet again and noticed an ever so slight cloudy discharge. maybe i was imagining things. but as i write this now it still feels uncomfortable and definitely not normal. probably chlamydia. i didn't bother going to the doc. went straight to the pharmacy across from nana plaza (apparently they see this shit all the time). she gave me a box of azithromycin. told me to take 4 pills (1g) tonight and the other 2 tomorrow and it should clear up in a week. last time i had this infection i waited a few days before getting the meds and it burned like fire whenever i pissed. i did not want to wait this time.

in the meantime, i need to think of an excuse to tell my girlfriend why i can't have sex with her for a week. or do i need to wait a week? i'm only taking the dosage tonight and tomorrow. how soon can i have sex?

I see some discussion on ultra thin condoms here. Such as Sagami 0. 02.

Where can I buy these in BKK? I see only the Durex brand in the shops and pharmacies. (Or maybe some of these are Ultrathin too?).

you should also go on a cipro series because azthriomyzina doesn't kill gonerreah. and, you might as well go on a metro series as well because neither of these kill bacteria infections, which she probably had also if she is carrying around chylmidia. you need to lie like a futherfucker to your girl and not have sex with her for at least a week or what can happen is you infect her, and two weeks from now when her infection (s) and / or virus bloom, she will reinfect you.

you really should consider condoms for obvious reasons highlighted by this thread.

[quote=mangofan; 1128786]i posted this in the bangkok section but i might as well post it here:

went to cowboy a few nights back with a mate. shocking how crowded it was. 25th of the month is when most people get paid, so pretty much all the go-gos were crowded beyond belief. #73 in shark is quite a cutie and has made my list of girls to fuck in the low season. finally made our way to the cocktail club. it's a fairly small and shady dive between long gun and cactus. there are 1 or 2 lookers; the rest are all skanks. anyway i took a girl to the toilet where she proceed to give me a bbbj. one of the worst ever. she was using her teeth too much and i was afraid of having a repeat of what happened to me at [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord900][CodeWord900][/url] a few months back (torn frenulum). i stopped her and offered her 700 baht for a fuck in the stall. bent her over and plunged in. not bad and a first for me.

i do not remember her name but i will be sure to get it and here is why. this morning (tuesday) i woke up and went to the toilet and had a very very slight burning sensation when i pissed. it did not hurt too bad unlike the last time i had this but it was still uncomfortable enough to get me worried. later in the day i went to the toilet again and noticed an ever so slight cloudy discharge. maybe i was imagining things. but as i write this now it still feels uncomfortable and definitely not normal. probably chlamydia. i didn't bother going to the doc. went straight to the pharmacy across from nana plaza (apparently they see this shit all the time). she gave me a box of azithromycin. told me to take 4 pills (1g) tonight and the other 2 tomorrow and it should clear up in a week. last time i had this infection i waited a few days before getting the meds and it burned like fire whenever i pissed. i did not want to wait this time.

in the meantime, i need to think of an excuse to tell my girlfriend why i can't have sex with her for a week. or do i need to wait a week? i'm only taking the dosage tonight and tomorrow. how soon can i have sex? [/quote]

[QUOTE=John Traveller; 1130642]I see some discussion on ultra thin condoms here. Such as Sagami 0. 02.

Where can I buy these in BKK? [/QUOTE]I wish I knew.

[QUOTE=John Traveller;1130642]I see only the Durex brand in the shops and pharmacies. (Or maybe some of these are Ultrathin too?).[/QUOTE]There were other brands, including Japanese, available when I was there in 09-10.

Try the pharmacies across from Nana Plaza, at the intersection of sukh & soi 3/4.

I went to have a check up for hiv at a sti-clinic in Bangkok the other day at the Red Cross anonymous clinic. Some waiting before the test. 1 hour. (I don't know if it's shorter time at other clinics). Then it's 1 hour waiting to get the result. The testing here is anonymous, no need to give away any name or so. It is said that they take fingerprints, but I cannot remember they took that of me. Before the test you fill out a form and then go into a office to answer some questions: Q: when was the last time for sex? A: yesterday, but also one month ago. Q: Female worker? A: Yes.

Good staff. I can recommend this clinic. Address: corner of Ratchadamri and Salasin. Skytrain: Ratchadamri. Building on right side when you walk south from this skytrain station.

It's strange how you worry in these situations, feeling this and that symptoms here and there, then it turns out to be nothing.

[QUOTE=John Traveller;1131710]I went to have a check up for hiv at a sti-clinic in Bangkok the other day at the Red Cross anonymous clinic. Some waiting before the test. 1 hour. (I don't know if it's shorter time at other clinics). Then it's 1 hour waiting to get the result. The testing here is anonymous, no need to give away any name or so.[/QUOTE]

Thank you for the report, this is really useful. How much does it cost at Red Cross? Is it clean and do they seem professional (e. G. Unpacking a new sterile needle in front of you when drawing blood)?

The 1hr wait before is a bit longer than in most places. I can recommend Sukhumwit hospital near BTS Ekkamai with about a 10 min wait. Paolo hospital near BTS Saphan Kwai is OK, but nurses seem incompetent ("Chlamydia? What's that? Can you see a doctor first to figure out what STD test to take?").

Wait for results is 1-2h everywhere, but that's easier since can go somewhere for a walk and come back. You don't have to queue in a hospital revisiting your deepest fears.

The HIV tests are rather cheap. 500 baht or so, but it gets up to 900 if you also do VDRL (Syphilis and Gonorrhea) , and you should since you're there and drawing blood anyway. Hepatitis is a good to watch out for as well (I think they can do it with same blood sample. 1hr). Chlamydia blood test takes 7+ days, that's a annoying.

As for anonymity. For citizens of countries with crappy health insurance schemes (say, USA or Thailand) , anonymity is [B]essential[/B]. If you go under your own name, future insurance will refuse to pay due to a pre-existing condition. Most places require an I'd (I asked to remain anonymous at Sukhumwit hospital, but they refused). However, a blurry passport copy is accepted, so it's easy to sign up under a different name (photoshop a fake one or get it made at KSR).

[QUOTE=Crocodilexp;1132263]Thank you for the report, this is really useful. How much does it cost at Red Cross? Is it clean and do they seem professional (e. G. Unpacking a new sterile needle in front of you when drawing blood)?[/QUOTE]The price is only 220 baht. From what I could see it was hygienic end professional.

[quote=crocodilexp; 1132263]thank you for the report, this is really useful. how much does it cost at red cross? is it clean and do they seem professional (e. g. unpacking a new sterile needle in front of you when drawing blood)?

the 1hr wait before is a bit longer than in most places. i can recommend sukhumwit hospital near bts ekkamai with about a 10 min wait. paolo hospital near bts saphan kwai is ok, but nurses seem incompetent ("chlamydia? what's that? can you see a doctor first to figure out what std test to take?").

end of quote / shortened.

chlmyidia is usually tested like gonorrhea. with a swab from inside the penis. (urethea?)

i get swapped every month and it takes between 1 hour to six hours. depending on the lab.

some say the next day.

in usa they can do [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord109][CodeWord109][/url] for chlmydia and gonorrhea.

there are a bunch of other little problems that can happen.

nsu. non specific ureits? something like that.

i have studied the girls in asia a lot and don't go with one until she is tested so i am always talking to labs for testing and doctors.

i never heard of blood test for chlymdia or gonorrhea?

only hiv and syphilis. (spelling might be wrong?)

be really careful of misdiagnosis in asia.

get second opinion and retest if you have anything. unless its really high quality doctor and hospital.

also they can miss a lot.

some things do not have symptoms that are noticeable or are so slight you may think its a normal itch?

so you can go by symptoms and if you are fucking a lot without condoms you need a good doctor and test of everything when you can.

in angeles there is a 50% infection rate or higher of girls working the bars. most are really minor things and easy to get rid of.

there are good clinics in pattaya on most of the sois. last one i visited was on soi 13/2. doctor will test for anything and everything. not really cheap if you test for everything you can. (std)

i know excellent doctor in angeles philippines.

in pattaya i also go to bangkok hospital pattaya for complete check ups. including heart and most other health issues.

[QUOTE=WestFLA;1130648]You should also go on a cipro series because azthriomyzina doesn't kill gonerreah.[/QUOTE]Actually azithromycin does cure gonorrhea. The dose previously recommended was a 1 gram does to kill both gonorrhea and chlamydia, but nowadays I think they recommend 1. 5 or 2 grams. Still. 1 gram normally does work.

Really up-to-date Thai pharmacists will recommend a 1 gram one time dose of azithromycin and a 400 mg one time dose of Cefspan (oral) to cure both, but Cefspan is difficult to find and 99% of the time the azithromycin works alone, so I wouldn't worry about it.

[QUOTE=John Traveller; 1130642]I see some discussion on ultra thin condoms here. Such as Sagami 0. 02.

Where can I buy these in BKK?[/QUOTE]If anywhere it may be a secret some are trying to hide, for some reason.

Sagami, BTW, are looking to hire distributors, so maybe we'll start to see them around.

Anyone know where the cheapest place to do a test for Chlamydia? St. Louis Hospital wanted 4, 000 baht! I took azithromycin a few weeks ago and it cleared up for the most part, but I don't think it's 100% cleared up because I look down my urethra and can still see some cloudy liquid (but no discharge). I just want to test to make sure.

[QUOTE=Mangofan;1139299]Anyone know where the cheapest place to do a test for Chlamydia? St. Louis Hospital wanted 4, 000 baht! I took azithromycin a few weeks ago and it cleared up for the most part, but I don't think it's 100% cleared up because I look down my urethra and can still see some cloudy liquid (but no discharge). I just want to test to make sure.[/QUOTE]You might check at Bangkok Christian Hospital on Silom. Their prices are very reasonable.

[QUOTE=Mangofan;1139299]Anyone know where the cheapest place to do a test for Chlamydia? St. Louis Hospital wanted 4, 000 baht! I took azithromycin a few weeks ago and it cleared up for the most part, but I don't think it's 100% cleared up because I look down my urethra and can still see some cloudy liquid (but no discharge). I just want to test to make sure.[/QUOTE]There are plenty of medical clinics around. Last one I went to was in small soi off Sukhumwit Soi 11 close to Ambassador Hotel and price was not all ridiculous (without remembering exactly how much). Straight in and straight out, but obviously had to return to get results. Its not necessary to go to a hospital where could have a long wait.

I tested for just about everything (swaps and blood tests), even for Syphillus (despite being not so common), just to get a clean bill of health, after girlfriend found I had Azithro in my luggage (just in case I should find a need for it some time). Chlamydia can be caught from BBBJ quite easily, despite use of condoms for FS.

[QUOTE=Syzygies; 1139408]There are plenty of medical clinics around. Last one I went to was in small soi off Sukhumwit Soi 11 close to Ambassador Hotel and price was not all ridiculous (without remembering exactly how much). Straight in and straight out, but obviously had to return to get results. Its not necessary to go to a hospital where could have a long wait.[/quote]

I tested for just about everything (swaps and blood tests) , even for Syphillus (despite being not so common) , just to get a clean bill of health, after girlfriend found I had Azithro in my luggage (just in case I should find a need for it some time). Chlamydia can be caught from BBBJ quite easily, despite use of condoms for FS. [/QUOTE.

Thanks for that. How did they perform the test? I really don't relish having a swab shoved up my urethra. At Bangkok hospital a few years ago they just squeezed my bell end until a small amount of liquid came out and got the sample that way.

And you're right. Chlamydia can be caught quite easily. I told my g / f it was just a urinary infection, which she seemed to buy. I caught it from a girl in the cocktail club on Cowboy. BBBJ. I will definitely stay away from bargain bin girls from now on.

[QUOTE=Mangofan;1139418]I caught it from a girl in the cocktail club on Cowboy. BBBJ. I will definitely stay away from bargain bin girls from now on.[/QUOTE]I don't think STDs discriminate. You can also catch one from a Spasso girl or a non P4P girl

[QUOTE=NicFrenchy;1139454]I don't think STDs discriminate. You can also catch one from a Spasso girl or a non P4P girl[/QUOTE]Unsafe sex in any circumstance, unless solely with a (tested) monogamous partner, has risk involved for both parties.

From the ongoing discussions on this board, it appears some ISG mongers who boast about going bareback could be spreading some pretty nasty germs around not only Thailand, but other countries as well. Makes me worry for (and about) some of my "working" girlfriends.

[QUOTE=NicFrenchy;1139454]I don't think STDs discriminate. You can also catch one from a Spasso girl or a non P4P girl[/QUOTE]Actually the non-P4P could be the most dangerous of all, even for HIV, if they are sexually active, because we know that Thai BFs/GIKs do not like to wear condoms, even more strongly than Farangs. That's why so many innocent faithful Thai housewives have caught HIV.

Regular Soapy girls and higher class bar girls will probably be slightly less risky only because they get tested more frequently and are less likely to skip condoms for full sex.

Every BBBJ has a risk of occassional Chlamydia (the most likely one) which we take on a regular basis. I would suggest CBJ for those not willing to take that risk.

[quote=syzygies;1139408]there are plenty of medical clinics around. last one i went to was in small soi off sukhumwit soi 11 close to ambassador hotel and price was not all ridiculous (without remembering exactly how much). straight in and straight out, but obviously had to return to get results. its not necessary to go to a hospital where could have a long wait.[/quote]went in on friday. the clinic is on the small sub soi off soi 11. he told me it was 900 baht to test for chlamydia. i did not want the swab test. honestly i'm deathly afraid of the pain. he said that it was fine, as long as i hadn't urinated in 3 hours. i hadn't, and when the test came back negative, he told me i was all clear.

[QUOTE=Mangofan;1141337]WHonestly I'm deathly afraid of the pain.[/QUOTE]I did it and was very afraid of the pain too. They need to do 3 or 4 swabs usually, not just 1. But it really isn't nearly as bad as you imagine. It only hurts a little.

[QUOTE=Chill Out;1141364]I did it and was very afraid of the pain too. They need to do 3 or 4 swabs usually, not just 1. But it really isn't nearly as bad as you imagine. It only hurts a little.[/QUOTE]It's like having a pipe cleaner shoved up your dick and twisted.

When I was young and first married, I had a scab on my dick from my bacteria and the brides not being compatible. Doctor grabbed my fore skin and knocked the scab off with a piece of gauze. He had such a tight grip, I could not get away. Now that's pain. ;)

Slim

I can't believe it, but I have started going down on one pro girl. Which I thought I would never do. But she is just too hot to resist.

What are the risk involved for a man going down on a woman? Pretty limited I think. Anyone here ever caught anything from a pro?

[QUOTE=Chill Out;1142423]I can't believe it, but I have started going down on one pro girl. Which I thought I would never do. But she is just too hot to resist. What are the risk involved for a man going down on a woman? Pretty limited I think. Anyone here ever caught anything from a pro?[/QUOTE]From Wikipedia. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cunnilingus:[/url]

"Chlamydia, human papillomavirus (HPV) , gonorrhea, herpes, hepatitis (multiple strains) , and other sexually transmitted infections (STIs) — including HIV — can be transmitted through oral sex. Any kind of direct contact with body fluids of a person infected with HIV (the virus that causes AIDS) poses a risk of infection. Nevertheless, the risk of HIV infection is generally considered far lower than that associated with vaginal or anal sex. If the receiving partner has wounds or open sores on her genitals, or if the giving partner has wounds or open sores on or in his or her mouth, or bleeding gums, this poses an increased risk of STI transmission. Brushing the teeth, flossing, undergoing dental work, or eating crunchy foods such as potato chips relatively soon before or after performing cunnilingus can also increase the risk of disease transmission, because all of these activities can cause small scratches in the lining of the mouth. These wounds, even when they are microscopic, increase the chances of contracting STDs that can be transmitted orally under these conditions. Such contact can also lead to more mundane infections from common bacteria and viruses found in, around, and secreted from the genital regions.

In 2005, a research study at the College of Malmö in Sweden suggested that performing unprotected oral sex on a person infected with HPV might increase the risk of oral cancer. The study found that 36% of the cancer patients had HPV compared to only 1 percent of the healthy control group.

Another recent study in the New England Journal of Medicine suggests a correlation between oral sex and throat cancer. It is believed that this is due to the transmission of human papillomavirus or (HPV) because this virus has been implicated in the majority of cervical cancers. The study concludes that people who had one to five oral sex partners in their lifetime had approximately a doubled risk of throat cancer compared with those who never engaged in this activity, and those with more than five oral-sex partners had a 250% increased risk."

Have fun. ;)

[QUOTE=Fon Tok;1142456]Any kind of direct contact with body fluids of a person infected with HIV (the virus that causes AIDS) poses a risk of infection. Nevertheless, the risk of HIV infection is generally considered far lower than that associated with vaginal or anal sex.[/QUOTE]Yes, so low the risk that real provable instances of orally caught HIV have been extremely difficult to find. One study of lesbians in a stable relationship with one partner HIV+ found no instances of the other partner catching HIV through oral sex. I am not saying its impossible, but only so low a risk that its not worth worrying about. Your condom breaking is a bigger risk, I believe.

Other things like Chlamydia are far easier to catch, orally.

[QUOTE=Syzygies;1142652]Yes, so low the risk that real provable instances of orally caught HIV have been extremely difficult to find. One study of lesbians in a stable relationship with one partner HIV+ found no instances of the other partner catching HIV through oral sex. I am not saying its impossible, but only so low a risk that its not worth worrying about. Your condom breaking is a bigger risk, I believe.Other things like Chlamydia are far easier to catch, orally.[/QUOTE]Slurp, slurp, slurp away. Thai women, for the most part, love it!

Yeah, I don't worry about HIV at all for Cunnilingus (though who knew about the danger of eating potato chips? LOL). But about herpes etc.

Do any of the bars, gogos, MPs have regular tests for their girls.

I know that some bars in the PIs have this. What about LOS?

[QUOTE=Osuul; 1149167]Do any of the bars, gogos, MPs have regular tests for their girls.

I know that some bars in the PIs have this. What about LOS? [/QUOTE]Some bars have regular "tests". However, these often involve nothing more than a doctor asking a girl if she feels well and signing off on the all clear result. I would not bet my life on whether the actual blood test for HIV / VDRL was done, even if a paper from a back-alley clinic says so.

According to a WG I have every reason to trust, the answer is yes, at least in her high-end shop. She is required to use condoms in the shop. She is tested once a month. If she gets an STD, she has to stop working until cured or stop altogether if it's HIV.

I imagine policy and enforcement depends on each business, however.

[QUOTE=Chill Out;1149274]She is tested once a month.[/QUOTE]Wow, so the shop actually pays for the Doctor? If not then the results are not very accurate as girls can always find a nice doctor that will not do the whole check.

I'll admit I did not get the details of who does the test to who; but it sounded pretty serious and like the shop was committed to protecting their clients. And that also makes sense to me, why would a shop make it easy for their girls to escape the tests, when it could get one of their important client infected, leading to all sort of troubles, possibly getting closed down, etc? It seems logical to me that high-end shops (where many connected VIP Thais go) would not mess around with this stuff.

I'll try to find out more from her when I get the chance, eg how does she get tested exactly.

Men's latex penis hole underwear briefs protect against herpes and genital warts from skin to skin contact in areas not covered by condoms.

[url]http://www.dhgate.com/wholesale-10pcs-60-men-latex-shorts-penis/r-ff8080812aef2fb1012aef503a8a68e1.html[/url]

Super thin, flexible and light for added comfort.

Front hole ring will help secure condom by locking the condom`s ring.

Directions: Before sex: Put condom on first. Then wear underwear and fasten with buttons.

After sex: Unbutton and take underwear off first. Then pull out condom.

[QUOTE=John Dough; 1149357]Men's latex penis hole underwear briefs protect against herpes and genital warts from skin to skin contact in areas not covered by condoms.

[url]http://www.dhgate.com/wholesale-10pcs-60-men-latex-shorts-penis/r-ff8080812aef2fb1012aef503a8a68e1.html[/url]

Super thin, flexible and light for added comfort.

Front hole ring will help secure condom by locking the condom`s ring.

Directions: Before sex: Put condom on first. Then wear underwear and fasten with buttons.

After sex: Unbutton and take underwear off first. Then pull out condom. [/QUOTE]Any punter who can maintain a hard-on after all of that should be admired.

[QUOTE=Daddy07;1149429]Any punter who can maintain a hard-on after all of that should be admired.[/QUOTE]With enough Viagra anything is possible. Viagra is a wonder drug enabling us to screw girls numerous times a day never heard of before the invention.

Nowadays hypersexed girls expect you to fuck them more than 1 or 2 times.

[QUOTE=Daddy07;1149429]Any punter who can maintain a hard-on after all of that should be admired.[/QUOTE]Better safe than sorry. Have a look at my new going-out attire! .

[QUOTE=Sammon;1149536]Viagra is a wonder drug enabling us to screw girls numerous times a day never heard of before the invention.[/QUOTE]I can assure you that women were getting fucked "numerous times a day" long before Viagra.

[QUOTE=John Dough; 1149357]Men's latex penis hole underwear briefs protect against herpes and genital warts from skin to skin contact in areas not covered by condoms.

[url]http://www.dhgate.com/wholesale-10pcs-60-men-latex-shorts-penis/r-ff8080812aef2fb1012aef503a8a68e1.html[/url]

Super thin, flexible and light for added comfort.

Front hole ring will help secure condom by locking the condom`s ring.

Directions: Before sex: Put condom on first. Then wear underwear and fasten with buttons.

After sex: Unbutton and take underwear off first. Then pull out condom. [/QUOTE]This will, without a doubt, take the charm out of the act for all but the most dedicated of latex fetish extremists. Heaven help those afflicted with a latex allergy.

These condoms have a skirt at the base to cover the pubic area, providing protection from herpes and genital warts.

[url]http://dayotahealthcare.en.nobodybuy.com/pid1289363/protection-condom-morecare-condom.htm[/url]

[url]http://www.supplierlist.com/product_view/oemcondom/223174/101114/Protection_Condom_Morecare_Condom__www_dahuilatex_.htm[/url]

it is implied one is safer if they do not have "rough sex" because of the "friction" caused by such that would increase the likelihood of tears which open a gateway for the hiv virus to potentially reach the skin on the body of the uninfected:

"tears (often microscopically small) in the membrane linings of the genital tracks, especially in the anal-rectal area, also make it easy for the virus to enter the sex partner's bloodstream. because the membrane linings of body cavities, epecially in the anal-rectal area, and, to a lesser extent, in the vagina, are very delicate, they can be torn as a result of friction generated during sexual intercourse. (rough sex, dry sex and forced sex or [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url] often lead to friction, tears and bleeding.)"

[url]http://www.health.am/aids/more/transmission_through_sexual_acts/[/url]

Another good reason to use lubricated condoms + KY.

In the past in this thread I opposed BB sex quite strongly. But now based on a number of factors, including HIV no longer being considered the death sentence it once was, I think the case against going ruberless is less strong. In fact I'd suggest that in some cases it is quite reasonable to practice condomless sex, and I am even presently doing so. For example, if a person has been given only a month, year, or five years to live, there is little reason for a guy to worry about getting infected. Compare the following quote:

"I wouldn't even tell my patients who enjoyed cigarettes to stop smoking because it didn't seem to make a lot of sense if we were talking about survival in terms of months and a few years."

[url]http://www.medindia.net/news/HIV-No-Longer-a-Death-Sentence-Conference-Told-24024-1.htm[/url]

[QUOTE=PinkPearl;1154146]if a person has been given only a month, year, or five years to live, there is little reason for a guy to worry about getting infected.[/QUOTE]Besides of course caring about spreading diseases to the girls or other mongers. I guess if you are about to die, who cares, right?

[quote=chill out;1154181]besides of course caring about spreading diseases to the girls or other mongers. i guess if you are about to die, who cares, right?[/quote]i think the human mind is not prepared to say "i am going to die, hell, let's have fun!"

most likely in the last period of such a disease you are most likely so sick you do not think about having fun.

in the early period, you might not believe what you have, you tend to remove the issue, you tend to think "not me, i am feeling ok, i am fighting the disease". so it is not you are "spreding the disease in a voluntary way under the "who cares about the others", but most likely in a careless way.

probabluy the same stae of mind of the guy, driving drunk and speeding. he feels nothing can happen to him, happens always to the others. if he kills somebody by driving drunk he is not voluntarily doing it but he is in a careless mood.

i am not justifying, i am trying to assign a mind status.

still i do believe that acting careless (before getting a disease and doing it bb all the time, before getting drunk but starting to drink heavily) has a degree of condemnable behaviour.

Actually, stroking a pussy bareback comes naturally to most guys and feels much better than putting a piece of rubber on their penis, so there is no need for them to get in any particular frame of mind to bareback. They just follow their instincts. Sex is a highly personal thing and the last thing a guy will be thinking of is the welfare of other mongers who may bareback the same girl. In fact other mongers should be in no danger of catching diseases if they are using a rubber so any spreading of diseases should be limited to the bareback monger community and the girls serving it. The only people from the safe sex crowd in danger are the ones who don't practice what they preach.

To use or not to use? We are all grew men here nothing anyone going to say including me is going to change anyones mind although the science is available. Why? Because it feels damn good even for those that preach condoms. We all have slipped it in from time to time?

I have worked along individuals that had Aids before they even knew what it was! I seen the affects of the slow dying process and heard the conversation from them that they like to " live for today " I never said it to anyone of their faces including the last guy in 1994, who one day said he had Aids for a number of years and that the cocktails that he was taking had given out on him. I told him that I had known for sometime and that I had seen the signs along with his absentee record. Seven months later he was dead and I remember years before he said he like to " live for today " at his service all I can think to myself was " he live for today and today was here ".

Everyone be safe and if that time comes remember to deal with it like a man like my co-worker.


Blankqu,

You got one of the best tools the lord gave you! Use your tongue and eyes to locate her heavens gate?



LBM

[QUOTE=Chill Out;1154181]Besides of course caring about spreading diseases to the girls or other mongers. I guess if you are about to die, who cares, right?[/QUOTE]Well, I was referring to the risk to the dying individual BBer himself, not to the possible effects upon others. If any guy didn't want to put others in danger of STDs through sexual activities, he'd need to be a virgin for the rest of his life. But most of us here are willing to put ourselves in one degree or another of danger rather than do that.

BBing is one of many risky sexual practices, but has also been used for thousands of years to keep the human race from extinction. While it is one of the most dangerous activities in the bedroom, if you are having sex at all with another you are also entertaining a level of danger yourself. Who's to say what level is acceptable or right? Is a BBBJ ok, or should it be covered? What about DATY, DFK, AR, BLS, and other rubberless activities?

"According to a 2000 report by the National Institutes of Health (NIH) , correct and consistent use of latex condoms reduces the risk of HIV / AIDS transmission by approximately 85% relative to risk when unprotected."

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Condom#In_preventing_STDs[/url]

This is based on "correct and consistent use of latex condoms", but in the real world of human error those figures would go down, as explained here:

"Hand out all the condoms you want, make sure they are used, and there will still be an epidemic of STDs and unplanned pregnancy. Condoms have been around for centuries, in one form or another. They have never been reliable. Today, IF a condom is used CORRECTLY (12 step process) and CONSISTENTLY, and there are no defects in the condom, and it does not break; a user might have an 85% protection rate against HIV, or pregnancy. In the real world, where the users are drunk, or stoned, it's dark, and he is rushing. Are you getting the picture?"

[url]http://www.tcpalm.com/news/2010/nov/27/anthony-westbury-bowed-but-not-beaten-hivaids-st/?partner=yahoo_feeds[/url]

It looks like condoms were giving me a false sense of security.

However if a BBer wanted to continue BBing and reduce the risk to others, then he could think about how to do so and take the appropriate actions. For example, he might get tested, encourage his partners to do the same, limit himself to a monagamous relationship, not practice rough sex, seek to reduce the vaginal tearing during intercourse, and so forth.

For example, both me and the two girls I've decided to continue BBing, and who say they are only seeing me, have been tested recently. All tests showed no signs of any STDs, whether major or minor. Hopefully those you are doing with a condom are the same or at least the rubber does not fail you.

Tears during sex are a major contributing factor to getting HIV, but if a guy has a small penis, is circumcised, doesn't practice rough sex, and his girl's pussy is like fucking the grand canyon, all of these factors reduce friction and the likelihood of tearing. Such a guy, myself included, may be safer from HIV than many guys using a condom that may be defective, break, or slip off inside or outside the girl.

The purpose of sex is to propagate the species. When one slides into a fucklet's hot wet beaver it gives a feeling of intense pleasure and deep satisfaction. It's is that very sensation that makes mongers undergo the expense and danger of hunting beaver on distant shores with low standards of living. Take away that exquisite feeling of skin to skin raw sex and the thrill is gone! Our species is one that thrives on risk. Men have gone to the moon, climbed mountains and dived to the depths of the oceans. It can argued that these endeavors were extremely risky, hazardous to life and possibly totally unnecessary. Yet such adventures are pursued at great expense. Our species tends to reward risk taking. After all, the natural reproductive process requires barebacking at some point to pass our genes onto future generations. Those too terrified to bareback would fail to reproduce and eventually die off resulting in natural selection for those with the propensity to bareback against all odds.

[QUOTE=PinkPearl; 1154146]In the past in this thread I opposed BB sex quite strongly. But now based on a number of factors, including HIV no longer being considered the death sentence it once was, I think the case against going ruberless is less strong. In fact I'd suggest that in some cases it is quite reasonable to practice condomless sex, and I am even presently doing so. For example, if a person has been given only a month, year, or five years to live, there is little reason for a guy to worry about getting infected. Compare the following quote:

"I wouldn't even tell my patients who enjoyed cigarettes to stop smoking because it didn't seem to make a lot of sense if we were talking about survival in terms of months and a few years."

[url]http://www.medindia.net/news/HIV-No-Longer-a-Death-Sentence-Conference-Told-24024-1.htm[/url][/QUOTE]We had all this crap on the other forum until you were banned for trolling. Now you have arrived here to sell your encyclopedias. I'm not going to bother to get involved, other than to say if you think HIV / AIDS is now cured and it's simply a matter of taking a couple of pills a day for the rest of your life with no other effects then you are very much mistaken. By barebacking on a regular basis you put yourself at risk (who cares) , the girls (I care) and anybody they have unprotected sex with (which I accept probably includes the majority of us very infrequently).

And don't get me started on the pregnancy risks.

[QUOTE=Chocha Monger;1154253]any spreading of diseases should be limited to the bareback monger community and the girls serving it. The only people from the safe sex crowd in danger are the ones who don't practice what they preach.[/QUOTE]Some people manage that crazy ability of caring for someone other than themselves. Crazy, I know.

[QUOTE=Chill Out;1154683]Just for the record, HIV still is very much a death sentence, you just don't die in 2 years like you did in 1985, but in 20. And during the 20 years you have to take very strong medications several times per day, that give you either permanent cold sweat, diarrhea, stomach aches, pimples, dizziness, mental fog, liver issues, or a combination of all and more. It's not a walk in the park.[/QUOTE]I find this comment very interesting and am wondering what you guys think. Re the first sentence I did an internet search on the words "HIV death sentence" and everywhere I looked people thought it was no longer considered as such. Re the second sentence quoted above, I am also seeing comments, as given below, that give a vastly different viewpoint. So do you think HIV is as bad as stated above?

"Over the years, drugs have been developed that can treat a wide range of medical problems, including HIV, and help people live longer and healthier lives. All drugs are tested to make sure they are safe and effective enough to be allowed on the market. However, all drugs can cause some effects that are different from what they were developed to do. These are called side effects.

"Like all medications, HIV drugs can cause side effects. In most cases, the side effects of HIV drugs are mild, like a headache or an upset stomach. In some cases, more serious side effects can happen, like liver damage or a severe skin rash.

"Side effects are most common during the first four to six weeks you are taking a new HIV medication. After your body gets used to the new drug, the side effects usually get better or go away.

[url]http://www.thewellproject.org/en_US/Treatment_and_Trials/Things_to_Consider/Side_Effects.jsp[/url]

"Currently, most ARV regimens are well-tolerated. HIV medications can have side effects which are described in the patient information leaflet of the label. Some may be nothing more than a minor inconvenience, while others may interrupt your daily routine or affect your quality of life by making you feel anxious, nauseous, or fatigued. Some side effects may affect your overall health.

"It is important to keep your doctor informed about how you are feeling and how you are tolerating your HIV medications. There may be simple steps you can take to relieve minor side effects. When a HIV medications causes severe side effects, your doctor may be able to prescribe treatments to combat them or they may suggest changing your treatment regimen.

[url]http://www.tibotec-hiv.com/bgdisplay.jhtml?itemname=side_effects[/url]

"Everyone responds to HIV medication differently. While one person may not experience any side effects from a given antiretroviral (ARV) medication, another may face side effects that are difficult to tolerate.

[url]http://www.tibotec-hiv.com/bgdisplay.jhtml?itemname=side_effects_by_category[/url]

"Many HIV patients (even those who are doing good on meds) have fatigue (good and bad days) which actually is common in the general population as well. Likely not due to the virus per se. The meds can contribute as can psychological state, amount of sleep, stress, other medical conditions, and other factors. KH.

[url]http://www.thebody.com/h/statins-side-effects-and-hiv-medication.html[/url]

"The risk of HIV medications depends on which one you're on. The newer medicines have less side effects than the older ones. The side effect profile of antiretral viral therapy has never been terrible. And some of the latest medications that are coming out in clinical trial, so far we haven't even seen any side effects. A couple of medications that are in clinical trials this year and that we hope will be FDA approved this year, such as the CCR5 Inhibitor Maraviroc, and the intergraze inhibitor Raltegravir, so far no side effects have been detected in clinical trials. Of course there's bound to be some side effects in some individuals. But obviously the rate is going to be very, very low, if so far they haven't detected any. And for example the components of Atripla, the side effects are not very frequent with most of the components. Tenofovir very rarely causes any side effect. Very, very rarely it may cause kidney problems, and so that has to be watched. FDC hardly ever causes any side effects in anybody. Sustiva can cause dizziness and funny dreams, and it's not the drug for absolutely everybody. But now we have so many drugs that if a patient has side effects from their first regiment that they are given for their heart treatment, then we can switch them to another one. Which almost certainly won't, but if they're unlucky on the second one we can put them to a third or a fourth. So my goal is to always find a heart regiment that a patient will have no side effects from whatsoever. And that's the case for the majority of my patients. It's a little harder if patients has experienced a lot of drugs and have become resistant to a lot of drugs, and you don't have as many choices. But for patients newly infected who haven't got any resistance, we'll pretty much always find a regiment now that they can take without any side effect.

[url]http://www.videojug.com/interview/hiv-treatment-side-effects[/url]

I think HIV is more like a diabetes these days. Many people don't consider diabetes as a "death sentence" like HIV but diabetes still kills many people slowly. It reduces the life expectancy of the people who have it by many years, possibly even something like 10-15 years much like HIV. Neither HIV nor diabetes can be cured. You need lots of medication in both cases. Please do not take any risks cause HIV is still a very serious disease but it is researched a lot nowadays. There is a good chance of a vaccine in the near future. And when there is a vaccine there it usually a cure so if you catch HIV today you would probably die of it in 10-20 years and it is possible that there will be in a cure in that time frame and you won't die of it.

The problem of HI virus is that it mutates so much. That makes it very difficult to create a vaccine against it but it is certainly possible.

Pinkpearl: my comment was from personal experience. I have several friends with HIV. As I said, it's not a walk in the park.

[quote=pinkpearl; 1153726]it is implied one is safer if they do not have "rough sex" because of the "friction" caused by such that would increase the likelihood of tears which open a gateway for the hiv virus to potentially reach the skin on the body of the uninfected:

"tears (often microscopically small) in the membrane linings of the genital tracks, especially in the anal-rectal area, also make it easy for the virus to enter the sex partner's bloodstream. because the membrane linings of body cavities, epecially in the anal-rectal area, and, to a lesser extent, in the vagina, are very delicate, they can be torn as a result of friction generated during sexual intercourse. (rough sex, dry sex and forced sex or [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url] often lead to friction, tears and bleeding.)"

[url]http://www.health.am/aids/more/transmission_through_sexual_acts/[/url][/quote]the safety is most important.

It is my first post so I thought I would try to make it a bit interesting. I was neither for or against BB until key moments in my life changed my views. I usually cover up, but in the heat of the moment and on the [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140][CodeWord140][/url] I don't do it. I have worked and played throughout West Africa, Southern Africa, Thailand and Cambodia. 50% or more has been BB. I shake my head when ever I look back on what I did. I used to think I was lucky. Anyway here are some interesting facts that I pulled up.

Infant mortality rate in America is (at a maximum).03. Chances of catching HIV through BB vaginal sex is. 05% (give or take due to many variables) So essentially this says that there is a similar chance of your child dying during birth as there is of getting HIV when fucking BB. I can see now that it wasn't luck for me. It was playing the % game. Don't get me wrong, now I have a misses (key moment one) and kids (key moment two) I will still always wear a condom, but heay, if I was single and had no commitments back home or no loved ones I would go BB all the time. If punters at casino's had those odds the casino's would go broke! AND I ain't talken broke back mountain! Haha and I'm glad to be on this site. Looking forward to being in Pattaya on the 3rd of July!

References

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Map3.6Maternal_Mortality_compressed.jpg/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HIV

Sorry guys, I thought I was on PA! This is my second post on ISG. Bloody Guinea, West Africa is getting to me. Well the beer is anyway.

[QUOTE=Vestax01; 1163732]It is my first post so I thought I would try to make it a bit interesting. I was neither for or against BB until key moments in my life changed my views. I usually cover up, but in the heat of the moment and on the [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140][CodeWord140][/url] I don't do it. I have worked and played throughout West Africa, Southern Africa, Thailand and Cambodia. 50% or more has been BB. I shake my head when ever I look back on what I did. I used to think I was lucky. Anyway here are some interesting facts that I pulled up.

Infant mortality rate in America is (at a maximum).03. Chances of catching HIV through BB vaginal sex is. 05% (give or take due to many variables) So essentially this says that there is a similar chance of your child dying during birth as there is of getting HIV when fucking BB. I can see now that it wasn't luck for me. It was playing the % game. Don't get me wrong, now I have a misses (key moment one) and kids (key moment two) I will still always wear a condom, but heay, if I was single and had no commitments back home or no loved ones I would go BB all the time. If punters at casino's had those odds the casino's would go broke! AND I ain't talken broke back mountain! Haha and I'm glad to be on this site. Looking forward to being in Pattaya on the 3rd of July!

References.

[url][url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Map3.6Maternal_Mortality_compressed.jpg/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HIV[/url][/QUOTE]Ohhhh boy do the math, you get born once but BB how many times?

The possibility is "times of BB sex" x possibility.

On my last 3 weeks trip I had about 26 girls. That times. 05 is already 1. Something. Adding up all my years in asia if I would go BB every time I would have an infection risk of more then 200.

[QUOTE=Pekkakoo; 1154920]I think HIV is more like a diabetes these days. Many people don't consider diabetes as a "death sentence" like HIV but diabetes still kills many people slowly. It reduces the life expectancy of the people who have it by many years, possibly even something like 10-15 years much like HIV. Neither HIV nor diabetes can be cured. You need lots of medication in both cases. Please do not take any risks cause HIV is still a very serious disease but it is researched a lot nowadays. There is a good chance of a vaccine in the near future. And when there is a vaccine there it usually a cure so if you catch HIV today you would probably die of it in 10-20 years and it is possible that there will be in a cure in that time frame and you won't die of it.

The problem of Hi virus is that it mutates so much. That makes it very difficult to create a vaccine against it but it is certainly possible. [/QUOTE]You said it yourself: diabetes may reduce your life expectancy by 10-15 years, so you die aged 60-65. HIV may kill you in 10-20 yeras, so you die aged 30-50. Big difference in my opinion. And AIDS is still a pretty grim disease (wasting, sweats, aching, nausea, etc etc). I wouldn't bet on a vaccine or cure anytime soon.

Regardless of the illness, diabetes, Hiv, regardless of the stats, no one wants to be sick! No one wants to have to worry for their rest of their life! We can come up with millions of reasons to justify our position as to what we are doing! I can safely say when the times comes that one is sick there isn't a person on the face of this earth that wish they weren't.

For some reason when it comes to sex everything is thrown out the window?

LBM

[QUOTE=Pekkakoo;1154920]I think HIV is more like a diabetes these days.[/QUOTE]Yesterday I asked the GF if she'd mind going with me for an HIV test. No problem, she said, so in we went. Both negative, thankfully. I told her I was impressed with how willing she was to go right in and do it.

'I look after myself so I don't worry about that, ' she said. 'But you won't get me to go for a diabetes test. '

Turns out, she's seen a neighbor or two die of AIDS, but she's seen dozens of family members and friends suffer with diabetes. To her it's a much more immediate risk, and that's when that weird human reaction kicks in: therefore she doesn't want to know.

(I don't mean this as a comparison of the two diseases, just an example of a typical lower-middle-class Thai perception of them.)

I am getting a few messages asking where to go to get tested.

SUKHUMVIT 11 CLINIC.

1/31 soi 11, sukhumvit road (It is in the small sub-soi across from Ambassador hotel, on the left where Sabai Sabai Massage is)

Mon-Fri 9am to 7pm.

Sat 10am to 4pm.

They Offer:

- Medical Service.

- VD Check up.

- Blood tests.

- Anti-HIV (Aids)

- Vaccinations.

- Innfluenza Vaccine.

- Anti Rabies Vaccine.

- Hep A & B Vaccine.

- Medical Certificate for Work Permit or Driving License.

I went there and did Blood tests (VD Check) + Swabs and got the claps.

The whole cost (with Medicine + Injection) was 3, 000 thb.

[QUOTE=Osuul; 1163767]Ohhhh boy do the math, you get born once but BB how many times?

The possibility is "times of BB sex" x possibility.

On my last 3 weeks trip I had about 26 girls. That times. 05 is already 1. Something. Adding up all my years in asia if I would go BB every time I would have an infection risk of more then 200. [/QUOTE]Sorry my maths was wrong. It is not 0. 5% it is a 5 in 10 000 chance or 0. 0005% or 1 in every 2000 roots. So at 1 girl a day chances are you will have HIV after 5. 6 years. And your right Osuul, it was a bad comparison.

The following link speaks of one man who was apparently cured of AIDS. Also mentioned are new preventative measures and a partly effective vaccine, etc.

"The example is Timothy Ray Brown of San Francisco, the first person in the world apparently cured of AIDS. His treatment isn't practical for wide use, but there are encouraging signs that other approaches might someday lead to a cure, or at least allow some people to control HIV without needing medication every day."

". For now, the focus remains on preventing new infections. With recent progress on novel ways to do that and a partially effective vaccine,"we're starting to get the feel that we can really get our arms around this pandemic," Fauci said.

". In the USA though, newly diagnosed patients have a life expectancy only a few months shorter than people without HIV. Modern drugs are much easier to take, and many patients get by on a single pill a day.

[url]http://ca.news.yahoo.com/one-mans-success-revives-hope-curing-aids-30-050557388.html[/url]

[QUOTE=LittleBigMan; 1163848]Regardless of the illness, diabetes, Hiv, regardless of the stats, no one wants to be sick! No one wants to have to worry for their rest of their life! We can come up with millions of reasons to justify our position as to what we are doing! I can safely say when the times comes that one is sick there isn't a person on the face of this earth that wish they weren't.

For some reason when it comes to sex everything is thrown out the window?

LBM[/QUOTE]Honestly what we want is to throw the condom "out the window" and then have sex. Sex of a far superior quality would certainly be an enticing temptation, don't you agree?

If I am sick, that is have a hangover, from drinking a lot, I take an Advil and I'm fine. Better yet, if I take the Advil with the booze and avoid the pain of the hangover pains completely.

With HIV and AIDS it is being claimed many suffer needlessly because the medical community is often reluctant to dispense cheap liquid morphine tablets. This encourages people to consider illicit means of obtaining the same or something similar. I think most of us are aware of the so-called war on drugs.

"Conclusions: In this small retrospective analysis oral retarded morphine produced good results in control of pain of various aetiology in advanced HIV disease, regardless of previous or concomitant use of other opiates."

[url]http://gateway.nlm.nih.gov/MeetingAbstracts/ma?f=102220415.html[/url]

[url]http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2011/02/15/many-hivaids-patients-suffer-pain-needlessly[/url]

[QUOTE=PinkPearl; 1164068]Honestly what we want is to throw the condom "out the window" and then have sex. Sex of a far superior quality would certainly be an enticing temptation, don't you agree?

If I am sick, that is have a hangover, from drinking a lot, I take an Advil and I'm fine. Better yet, if I take the Advil with the booze and avoid the pain of the hangover pains completely.

With HIV and AIDS it is being claimed many suffer needlessly because the medical community is often reluctant to dispense cheap liquid morphine tablets. This encourages people to consider illicit means of obtaining the same or something similar. I think most of us are aware of the so-called war on drugs.

"Conclusions: In this small retrospective analysis oral retarded morphine produced good results in control of pain of various aetiology in advanced HIV disease, regardless of previous or concomitant use of other opiates."

[url]http://gateway.nlm.nih.gov/MeetingAbstracts/ma?f=102220415.html[/url]

[url]http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2011/02/15/many-hivaids-patients-suffer-pain-needlessly[/url][/QUOTE]PinkPearl,

If this makes you think its a walk in the park having Hiv / Aids knock yourself out! I've seen many individual take similar position of trying to convince themselves something is nothing. When that day comes they sing another tune. I've heard people talked about doing the crime because they aren't afraid of doing the time but when they have to pickup the soap they are the ones that cry really loud!

Good luck and good health?

LBM

[QUOTE=Vestax01;1163959]Sorry my maths was wrong. It is not 0. 5% it is a 5 in 10 000 chance or 0. 0005% or 1 in every 2000 roots. So at 1 girl a day chances are you will have HIV after 5. 6 years. And your right Osuul, it was a bad comparison.[/QUOTE]Probability does not work that way.

The chance is. 5% EVERYTIME, it is not an additive scale.

With that said, the probability figure was derived from self-reported sexual activity and the appearance (or lack of) of HIV in their main partner. Other risky behavior on a per-sex basis would vastly increase this number.

[QUOTE=Antipopular;1164658]Probability does not work that way. The chance is. 5% EVERYTIME, it is not an additive scale.[/QUOTE]Not sure what you're trying to say here, but anyone who chooses to play any form of Russian Roulette might want to familiarise themselves with two terms: cumulative probability and normal distribution.

Say for example that the odds of infection were just 0. 1% per encounter (1 in 1000) , anyone want to guess the cumulative odds after 1000 encounters*

People can argue endlessly about the actual risk (and there is no single correct answer, because it depends on so many different factors) , but probability has a certain relentlessness to it. Keep taking a risk, even a small one, often enough, and eventually the odds turn against you.

*63% (And the odds have reached 50-50 after about 693 encounters)

I agree the math is important but I am not sure I want to learn it from you. Fuck someone with AIDS and there are two possible outcomes: 1) you get AIDS, or 2) you don't. So that is binomial, and unrelated to the normal distribution or "bell curve." Since most people would not care if they got AIDS one time or six times, you only care about the probability of getting it at least once. IF the probability of transmission were 1 in a thousand (under whatever conditions), the probability would be 36.8% you would get it exactly once if you fucked 1,000 different hookers with AIDS, each once. The probability that you would get it at least once would be 73.6%, so to me that is the relevant probability.

Or are you saying that each outcome is not independent? Like you fuck the same hooker 1,000 times and she has AIDS? Who's gonna fuck the same hooker 1,000 times? I admit I have fucked a couple of hookers more than 100 times but 1,000 times?

[QUOTE=Dickhead;1164875]I agree the math is important but I am not sure I want to learn it from you.[/QUOTE]Well I'm not teaching it, so no worries there.

The point is, you shag a few girls with HIV and you'll probably be OK. Keep doing it though and the odds are likely to catch up with you eventually. Pretty simple really.

[QUOTE=Dickhead;1164875]the probability would be 36.8% you would get it exactly once if you fucked 1,000 different hookers with AIDS, each once. The probability that you would get it at least once would be 73.6%, so to me that is the relevant probability.[/QUOTE]That's different than 63%. Would you care to elaborate on how you got there?

For the 63% figure, it's straightforward. Odds of not getting infected are 0. 999 per act. For 2 acts, odds of not getting infected at first one AND not getting infected on the second one are 0. 999*0. 999. For 1000 acts, that's. 9991000 = 0. 37. So, odds of getting it (at least once) are 1-0.37 = 63%. Where did Betong & I go wrong (if we did)?

Not that it makes any difference in reality. Odds eventually catch up with those who are repeatedly reckless.

[QUOTE=Crocodilexp; 1164959]That's different than 63. Would you care to elaborate on how you got there?

For the 63% figure, it's straightforward. Odds of not getting infected are 0. 999 per act. For 2 acts, odds of not getting infected at first one AND not getting infected on the second one are 0. 999*0. 999. For 1000 acts, that's. 9991000 = 0. 37. So, odds of getting it (at least once) are 1-0. 37 = 63. Where did Betong & I go wrong (if we did)? Not that it makes any difference in reality. Odds eventually catch up with those who are repeatedly reckless.
[/QUOTE]

You raised 0.999 to 1000th power (36. 7%) so you ignored the odds of getting infected on the first try AND on the second try AND on the third try. And, in that case you are still infected. That is why it is binominial and not cumulative. In other words, you came up with the probability of getting it (or not getting it, which would be the complement) exactly once, not getting it at least once. I used Excel's statistics function to come up with the binomial probability.

In lay terms, you flipped a coin twice and correctly determined the odds of it coming up heads exactly once was 1 in 4, but you ignored the odds of it coming up heads AT LEAST once, which is 3/4.

I misquoted your number (I quoted the complement of it, the 36.7% instead of 63.3%, which is what my number should have been compared to) in my original post. That exaggerated the difference between our two numbers. Sorry.

[QUOTE=Antipopular; 1164658]Probability does not work that way.

The chance is. 5% EVERYTIME, it is not an additive scale.

With that said, the probability figure was derived from self-reported sexual activity and the appearance (or lack of) of HIV in their main partner. Other risky behavior on a per-sex basis would vastly increase this number.[/QUOTE]Chance is 0. 0005% if your a male rooting a female. FACT. No argument. I don't say this, the smart people that are doctors are doing the surveys. As stated 1 in every 2000 get it. You may get HIv on the 1st root, you may get it on the last. But after 5. 6 years, chances are U will get it!

I've fucked all over Africa, Asia and to a small extent Europe and if we go by your rule of thumb of. 5% I would be taking anti viral's by now.

Nuff said

00. 5,5. 50% do people really give a damn about this shit to the point of taking it so seriously?

Anyone have any tips on how to avoid HIV aids when using Bangkok Massage Parlors Girls services like in Ratchada, Nataree, etc?

Thanks before

Use condoms.

[QUOTE=NowInBangkok; 1169569]Anyone have any tips on how to avoid HIV aids when using Bangkok Massage Parlors Girls services like in Ratchada, Nataree, etc?

Thanks before[/QUOTE]You're welcome. Perhaps you might find one or more of the following helpful.

1} Don't have sex. As Steve Martin said "Don't have sex man. It leads to kissing and pretty soon you have to start talking to them." Seriously, though, sex activities like anal or genital intercourse, BBBJ's, DATY, DFK, BLS, AR, all put one at risk of contracting HIV. Even getting a non sexual massage from those girls poses a risk, so maybe just play with yourself while looking at their naked bods.

2} If you decide to have sex anyway, and like to use condoms, learn which one will be right for you, such as not too tight so that it breaks or so loose that it slips off inside the pussy during the act. Learn how to put it on correctly, even in the dark when you are stoned, hammered or wasted. I've had condoms burst or get eaten by a pussy many times, which leads us to door number three, below.

3} If you prefer BB sex, then maybe that's because you like sex better that way, so are willing to take the increased risk of getting STDs. According to Opebo, if I recall, HIV has difficulty with water based lubricants. So use plenty of KY, I guess, if you can believe this. BTW, I'm not sure if the same would apply to oils like corn and olive, but these are great for playing with yourself because they are far less expensive and more longlasting than the typical store bought sex lubes. Bear in mind, though, that oil and water don't mix. As for oil and HIV, I have no clue. And I don't know if it's a good idea to fill a vagina with things one cooks with or spermicides, although some girls are happy to put cucumbers, carrots, bottles and stickshifts in there.

4} I've heard oil shouldn't be applied to condoms, whether on the outside or inside, as it makes them break down. The question then is whether the risks of break down as it pertains to HIV is more or less than the advantages, if any, gained by having oil acting as a protective barrier.

5} Re having sex as in 2 and 3 above, you can increase your chances of avoiding HIV in many ways. For example by choosing a girl who is a virgin, a newbie to hooking and MP's, not a drug or needle user, or one who has tested negative for the disease, etc. Likewise if you can reduce the friction during intercourse, for example by getting a lady with a very big hole, by cumming in less than one minute, or using lots of lube such as KY. Also it might be a good idea to not have sex with girls on the their period.

Hope that helped. Best of luck.

___________________________________.

"I practice safe sex. I use an airbag." Garry Shandling

[QUOTE=Chill Out;1169646]Use condoms.[/QUOTE]Every thing covered, or at least as much as possible. I have never had a condom break and I always pay attention if it's starting to slide down. Condoms should stop contaminating everything that's covered.

[QUOTE=NicFrenchy; 1163952]I am getting a few messages asking where to go to get tested.

SUKHUMVIT 11 CLINIC.

1/31 soi 11, sukhumvit road (It is in the small sub-soi across from Ambassador hotel, on the left where Sabai Sabai Massage is)

Mon-Fri 9am to 7pm.

Sat 10am to 4pm.

They Offer:

- Medical Service.

- VD Check up.

- Blood tests.

- Anti-HIV (Aids)

- Vaccinations.

- Innfluenza Vaccine.

- Anti Rabies Vaccine.

- Hep A & B Vaccine.

- Medical Certificate for Work Permit or Driving License.

I went there and did Blood tests (VD Check) + Swabs and got the claps.

The whole cost (with Medicine + Injection) was 3, 000 thb.[/QUOTE]That is not that much cheaper than Bumrungrad, why bother with a small clinic when there is a full blown hospital.