Seeking Arrangements

[QUOTE=LshRoomer;2490778]Akibono,

We are all here to help each other and share our experiences sir. I don't understand what you mean in your last comment? Are you asking for city details instead of naming the general country?[/QUOTE]We would like to know your experience with SA girls in various cities and what they are asking for allowances or ppm. There is very little information what the market rates for SBs in various cities.

I myself have not jumped into the SA pool. However after following this thread and other forums on the topic, it seems to me the process is one long negotiation. That's fine. It closely parallels the experiences of actual dating.

You meet an attractive girl. You try to interest her. She determines if you are offering enough to keep her interested in you. Even after you think you hit it off and you get her phone number, she might not respond. Then there's the date or dates. If you are lucky enough to wind up at your place or her place, the girl might play hard to get and you have to go through a long seduction. Much like what Steve is referring to as Japanese Nanpa.

In the MeToo world this all might now seem odd. A girl just wants to kiss and you really want to fuck. Seriously, you're going to seduce her into having sex?? Yes, exactly. She never says no. She moves your hand away from her body while still locking lips. Or she says it's late and that she really needs to go home, but she never actually moves to get up.

Remember those dates. Some girls would simply let you touch them and undress them. They were the ready and willing. Other girls wanted to play good girl and make you work for it. How bad do you want it? Haha. Sometimes you had to get the girl physically worked up to the point where she could no longer resist.

When a date finally culminated in sex, it was very satisfying beyond just the actual act. I think from what I read here this is what many men enjoy about SA. The hunt is part of the enjoyment.

[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2491013]I myself have not jumped into the SA pool. However after following this thread and other forums on the topic, it seems to me the process is one long negotiation. That's fine. It closely parallels the experiences of actual dating.

You meet an attractive girl. You try to interest her. She determines if you are offering enough to keep her interested in you. Even after you think you hit it off and you get her phone number, she might not respond. Then there's the date or dates. If you are lucky enough to wind up at your place or her place, the girl might play hard to get and you have to go through a long seduction. Much like what Steve is referring to as Japanese Nanpa.

In the MeToo world this all might now seem odd. A girl just wants to kiss and you really want to fuck. Seriously, you're going to seduce her into having sex?? Yes, exactly. She never says no. She moves your hand away from her body while still locking lips. Or she says it's late and that she really needs to go home, but she never actually moves to get up.

Remember those dates. Some girls would simply let you touch them and undress them. They were the ready and willing. Other girls wanted to play good girl and make you work for it. How bad do you want it? Haha. Sometimes you had to get the girl physically worked up to the point where she could no longer resist.

When a date finally culminated in sex, it was very satisfying beyond just the actual act. I think from what I read here this is what many men enjoy about SA. The hunt is part of the enjoyment.[/QUOTE]Exactly. I would say with proper warm up drinks and the right conversation by text ahead of time most girls are Down to Fuck (DTF) but it can vary widely. On my Vegas trip my three girls ran the gamut from:

1. DTF. Had a teddy in her purse she put on when taking a pee.

2. Sorta DTF. Needed some drinks and kissing to get warmed up.

3. NOT DTF. Literally said "I can't have sex with a guy I just met".

Of these girls, number 1 was the most fun and I repeated with - total wildcat. Number 2 was a lot of fun and I repeated with. And number 3 was a straight up adventure and enjoyable because of the conquest. Here's how that one went down:

Remember, SA girls are not hookers -- at least the ones I want to be with. There is a certain amount of game required -- both text game and in-person game. And, since I've had a couple civvy (unpaid) dates that were sex-fails, using my 30 year old pickup game (LOL), I've been reading up on Nampa -- Japanese Street Pickup Game. And I've learned some good stuff which I ended up using particularly with Jesse. Here are some terms you need to know:

Escalating / Kino. Light touching and kissing during the date to establish how receptive she is. I do this naturally anyhow.

Bounce. Take the girl from one location to another, particularly one where you can be close together. And when you bounce to the hotel don't make a big deal about it. Don't discuss. Don't ask. Just go there.

Push and Pull -- When you go for a kiss or a feel and she resists. Just brush it off. Change the subject. Try again in a bit. It will go farther. Eventually you can get her worked up and do the deed.

Persistence -- Don't be deterred if you get shot down. Just take a detour and try again. This concept was so foreign to me. You'd be amazed at the guys that go for a kiss, get shot down three times and end up fucking a half hour later after repeated push pull! WTF? Really. Yep.

LMR. Last minute resistance. Despite a girl going to your room she may get cold feet at the last minute. Push and pull and persistence are key to dealing with this.

Anti-Sl*t Defense (ASD) - No girl wants to feel like a sl*t. They need to rationalize in their heads that you are special and fucking you on the first date is Ok. You have to help them see this. That is also why in street pickup, you have to isolate her from her friends on an initial open and bounce somewhere else (so she can later go to the hotel privately and not look slutty).

Some guys push it all too far, IMO, but most of the principles are sound. This will be important later particularly with Jesse.

OK. So day 2 is Jesse day. Jesse is my 20 year old Viet Korean Mexican hottie. From the pics, she was kinda my fave. In person she is pretty, but via lots of make up and eyelashes and hair extensions (she confessed). Alexa is more naturally pretty. But Jesse is still a very pretty girl.

I changed reservations to go to Lago instead of Carbone, which sounded too much like Il Mulino. Lago is spectacular. The view of the Bellagio fountains is amazing and the food is wonderful. It's Italian tapas so we had five plates we shared.

We had a really nice dinner and she is a much more engaging conversationalist than Alexa. And she really appreciates the setting and the food. She gets carded by the waiter, but she can't produce it and they deny her a glass of wine. Kind of a bummer; but I guess an occupational hazard of dating a twenty year old! Hahaha.

So with Jesse more so than the others, I start to sense her youngness and perhaps she's not as sophisticated and sexy as she tries to imply. I decide to walk straight to the hotel without really saying where we are going, but surely she knows. I escalate with an arm around from time to time and it's not a cold response but not warm either.

As we enter the hotel I tell her I have a couple wines to choose from in my room and she says OK, so we just rock on up there. It's pretty comfortable but you can tell she is shy -- which is in complete contrast to how she dresses, as she is the sluttiest dresser of the three.

In the room, we admire the view and I can just feel the flow is not right. We start drinking and that probably helps. At one point she sits on the bed, which I take as a good sign and join her. But we really just chat a bit awkwardly. At some point I think fuck it and just go in for a kiss. She responds nicely and is a pretty good kisser. So we do that for a minute or two then stop.

The push and pull (remember Nanpa?) is now ringing in the back of my mind so I initiate again and pull her down to a lying position. And we make out a bit more but it's just not feeling there to move beyond that. But again, in retrospect, this was one more pull in a push pull sequence I was unconsciously executing.

I think we have some more wine but you can feel this awkward feeling that she is not DTF (down to fuck) and so I just meet it head on and say it seems she doesn't have chemistry towards me and it's cool. Sometimes it happens. She is all shy about it and says "I can't have sex with a guy I just met!" (LMR! ASD! I say I understand.

At some point I tell her all girls are different and I met a girl in Buenos Aires who took me to a sex club on our second date -- just to let her know that girls her age can be highly sexual. Plus, I am thinking it's not happening, so whatever.

She says "pour me another drink". I think she's getting up her courage. And I say I have a great idea. Let's just make out like high schoolers and we'll do what high schoolers do -- up to but no sex. And she says OK. In retrospect I see I was subconsciously using push pull and a lot of persistence.

So I pull her up fully on the bed and we are both fully clothed and I start letting her feel my masculine dominance. I am on top and kissing her hard and passionately and grinding my pelvis into hers. I do go really slow like a first timer. I start pulling her shirt up and her bra down and sucking her tits. She LOVES that. She's starting to grind back. Good sign.

At some point I put her hand on my hard dick thru my jeans (also learned this move from the Nampa dudes! And I feel her pussy thru her jeans and start thinking about getting them off. I am distracted with some more tit work and when I look down again, her jeans are unbuttoned and the zipper down. Looks like an invitation to me!

At some point we turned out one of the other lights and she is down to bra and panties and I am still working her pussy from the outside when she suddenly says "OK we can fuck now. Just turn out the lights. ".

WTF? Thank you baby Jesus!

I promise this was not all part of an evil plan. But I realize I subconsciously executed some rocking Nampa moves without knowing it! I always read in disbelief as some guy escalates from a blocked kiss to an SNL (single night lay) and how the girl's defenses crumble as she gets horny. And goddamn if I didn't just do it!

She is TRULY inexperienced. No BJ. No DATY. Modest attempt to get me hard by hand. But nice sex in all positions. Marked by her checking her phone from time to time as her mother texts. Bwahahaha. She lets me know she only has a half hour. So I am a little concerned especially with no BBBJ warmup. But her pussy feels great (using Trojan Bareskin Magnums which I like) and I pound out a nice shot in Mish shortly after she says "cum for me baby". Woohoo!

Definitely not the best sex ever and not a repeat. But the whole experience was totally fascinating and I am glad I had it. Seeking just remains soooo interesting.

I walk her to her Uber and off she goes. I know she is feeling a little slutty and so I help her ASD a bit by texting her how I appreciate that she can see I am different from other guys and such. Just helps her feel like she made an exception. Seems to work, as I get some thanks and heart emojis back. And she texts me the next day. Just nice touch base stuff. I am sure she'd go again, but there are too many better options.

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2490807]Were you living in Denver and Orlando when you used SA? Or you visiting those cities on a short term basis? I can see Orlando is perhaps not too productive. I have not used SA in Orlando but have had some success in Miami / Ft Laud area and also a couple of times in Tampa; the Tampa / St Pete area was truly good with the amount of response I received when I sent out requests ahead of my visit and the quality of girls was awesome and FL prices were reasonably cheap. Orlando however is a touristy city with mostly Disney and Universal crowds and not a fun place otherwise so I can imagine it is a waste of time. I had been in Denver a bunch of times but not recently; I have been on SA for 4-5 years now but in this time frame I was in Denver only once and I did not get a chance to use SA on that visit.

Your 300/400 Euro price is a bit high for my taste. I have gotten super great service in Europe for 200. Pretty girls too. Europe is in economic distress. There are tons of girls now who are desperate. In Spain, one girl I met through SA told me that her work had dried up and she was more or less desperate. She was grateful to take 200 from me for each session, spent nearly 3 hrs each time and pretty much nothing was off limits. That would have cost a pretty penny in FKKs. On the plus side, she was a true Catalan woman and not a Romanian faking to be Catalan (FKK inside joke, for those who get it), BTW, this was prior to Covid. I would think things are truly dire in Europe now and I would not be shocked if you can truly exceptional deals for 200 to 300 (multiple hours, super hot girls, BBFS, etc).

I think in US it is possible to get decent service for fly by travelers but much better to be a local. American girls don't put out that easily and not necessarily on the first date. Some might but many won't. If you are in a city for 4 days, you can try your luck but don't be too disappointed if nothing happens. It is not you, it is them.

Of course, it all depends on who you seek. I always stick to 25, White, slim body types and generally pleasant pretty faces. Occasionally I take fair skinned Latinas. Colombian / Argentine types rather than Mexican / Brazilian types. That is my optical spec. I suspect if you compromise on specs or expand the range of specs, success rate might go up. However, I would not know because I did not try.[/QUOTE]When I tried Denver and Orlando, I was there for 4 days a piece. Denver girls were very receptive. Of the 2 that I went out with, I banged one ($200) and just made out with the other. On the day I was leaving 2 more girls that I had spoken to contacted me to hang out. One was a thin redhead that I wanted to bang so bad. She couldn't find a babysitter during my whole stay I would definitely do SA in Denver again. It was harder (than EU) to negotiate in Denver, but I was able to line up about 4 girls. Unfortunately, I just didn't have the time to see them all. Orlando, as you mentioned was a desert.

In Europe, my experiences with SBs have been in Berlin, Prague, London, and warsaw. All of these cost me about 300-350 eu. I almost got baited and switched in Berlin for 500, but I shut it down before I pulled out the cash. I've had free in London, as she only wanted stuff (shoes, bags, hang out with me at nice restaurants). I find it difficult to use SA in Prague. I get plenty of initial replies, but they don't continue the correspondence. One SA girl I banged in Prague wasn't even Czech, she was Aussie. I'm still relatively new to the Sugar scene (about 2 years less this year due to being fucked by COVID). I usually use Seeking 2 weeks before I travel and this has been working pretty well.

You have to share where you are finding these 200 eu SBs!! I've never been able to agree on 200/ meet. I usually look for thin non smokers. Ethnicity and age don't matter to me as much, though I do favor euro white girls, then asians, then latinas. However, recently I have been searching for 20 and up. I banged two 18 year olds and I remember wanting a bit more life experience for the chatting, non-bedroom portion.

I'm with you that things in EU sound pretty bad right now and using Seeking would probably yield great results at this point. There are probably awesome sessions to be had for 200-300 eu with the current conditions. More places to conquer once this is all over.

02.

[QUOTE=Akibono;2490851]We would like to know your experience with SA girls in various cities and what they are asking for allowances or ppm. There is very little information what the market rates for SBs in various cities.[/QUOTE]Asked and answered I think but here it is again:

Most large US cities 300-400 with 400 more common.

San Fran and NYC 500.

Second tier cities 300, with possible score at 200.

Girls will often throw out 800 or 1000 PPM. They are smoking crack. Just move on.

Steve9696,

Awesome report man. Keep it coming. Personally, the situations that I find myself in with SA girls are part of the thrill that keeps me coming back. Each one is different and will make the night interesting in different ways.

Game is definitely part of the interaction. As you mentioned, they are not hookers that will fuck you the moment you meet because you are paying them. They do have the ASD (love that term!) and you have to break down those defenses. I start on this the moment we meet in person, with the "freedom talk" over drinks. Basically pointing out that you should be free with your thoughts, free with you emotions, don't be subjected, be free with your path in life, free with your sexuality, as it is right to explore, but only if the guy respects you and your freedom. LOL.

I know it sounds crazy, but most girls eat this up, because it comes across as a challenge. Who wants to think of themselves (or be thought of) as a prude or closed minded person, that enjoys restrictions, and spurns experimentation? I want them to be free with me, and I usually explicitly (with subtlety) let them know that there is no judgement from me for embracing your freedom. One girl even asked, "Do you think I'm a prostitute?" I gave her the freedom speech with a shot of good cognac and I was getting a BBBJ 30 minutes later. LOL. It works.

02.

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2490843]I looked up Lisbon just now and the selection seems OK. That's a good omen as it is not always true in my experience that SA has a large enough selection of girls in all the European cities.

How long will you be in Lisbon? If it is for 2 to 3 weeks at least, paying up a month worth of subscription is worth it. If you are only there for a week or less, I would be hesitant to spend 80 bucks to purchase a subscription. When I used SA in Europe, it was because I already purchased subscription in USA and didn't cost me anything more to use in Europe.[/QUOTE]I am only going to be there for 5 days but I coughed up for a subscription today. Put into a few hours work and fortunately have got two dates lined up with two early 20's girl who said they are ready to go intimate if the chemistry is there over drinks. Pursuing a couple more, lets see how it goes. Normal price which girls ask is 150-200 for a couple of hours or the whole night depending on the girl (targeting only top 20% of the girls, no 25+ or fat girls). It is already a better deal than doing escorts (which are 150 an hour for the doable / nice ones), so I guess the 100 euros spent on SA membership are not money down the drain.

Lisbon is a bit cheaper in this regard compared to The Netherlands, where I have had most of my SA experience. Netherlands is mostly 200 for a couple of hours, and 300 for a whole night. Depends on the girl also of course, I have had freebies once the girl and me liked each other, but normal prices are what I wrote.

Somebody was asking where to find girls for 200 per meet on SA. I think you have your best chance in the south in the big cities, Madrid, Barcelona, Lisbon. North will for sure be a bit expensive. You can pm me and I will help you for sure if I can.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2490827]Guys have dicks so they pay to message.

Girls have pussys so they message for free.

So yeah they don't need premium but you do.[/QUOTE]Unfortunately. Thanks for the confirmation!

[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2491013]

You meet an attractive girl. You try to interest her. She determines if you are offering enough to keep her interested in you. Even after you think you hit it off and you get her phone number, she might not respond. Then there's the date or dates. If you are lucky enough to wind up at your place or her place, the girl might play hard to get and you have to go through a long seduction. [/QUOTE]For me, there was absolutely no long seduction.

For me, the challenge was finding a girl that I liked that was willing to meet me for a drink. When I was active on SA, I would look at pages and pages of profiles, send out maybe a half dozen messages and see if I can get a nibble from any of them. Once I got a nibble, I would say "let's meet for a drink. " There were occasions where they might want to chat me up a little, and I did chat a bit, but I would eventually return to "let's talk about all this over a drink. " If they were game, then we would then set a time and day, but many times the date does not materialize.

But when I finally did get someone to meet for a drink, then we could see if there was genuine chemistry. If there wasn't, then I just cut bait. But if there was great chemistry, then we either had a great time and fucked that night, or we just had a great time and we fucked the next date. Agreeing to an arrangement with girls that I had chemistry with was always easy and quick. We both know what we want in an arrangement. I know what I am wiling to pay and she knows what she is willing to accept. So, convergence occurs quickly.

So, no long seduction. The long part is just finding someone you like to agree to meet you for a drink. But I'm a sample size of 1, so you should take my take with a grain of salt, of course.

[QUOTE=JackOfNone;2491157]I am only going to be there for 5 days but I coughed up for a subscription today. Put into a few hours work and fortunately have got two dates lined up with two early 20's girl who said they are ready to go intimate if the chemistry is there over drinks. Pursuing a couple more, lets see how it goes. Normal price which girls ask is 150-200 for a couple of hours or the whole night depending on the girl (targeting only top 20% of the girls, no 25+ or fat girls). It is already a better deal than doing escorts (which are 150 an hour for the doable / nice ones), so I guess the 100 euros spent on SA membership are not money down the drain.

Lisbon is a bit cheaper in this regard compared to The Netherlands, where I have had most of my SA experience. Netherlands is mostly 200 for a couple of hours, and 300 for a whole night. Depends on the girl also of course, I have had freebies once the girl and me liked each other, but normal prices are what I wrote.

Somebody was asking where to find girls for 200 per meet on SA. I think you have your best chance in the south in the big cities, Madrid, Barcelona, Lisbon. North will for sure be a bit expensive. You can pm me and I will help you for sure if I can.[/QUOTE]My advice or tips if you will.

When time is short, and in your case given that you paid up a subscription just for these 5 days, I would build some margin for error.

The last thing you want is to head back home with only one or two sessions in 5 days in which case you will feel a bit cheated.

Try to reach out to more girls. I don't know how your past experiences have been on sugarbabe sites but my experience is that rate of success is a low percentage in most places in the world. Especially as you put it in your current discussions they only agreed to have sex "if the chemistry is right". That is hardly a promise. Heck, most girls would think in their minds they will get intimate with a guy even for free if the chemistry is right, the guy is attractive yadda yadda.

I don't know how many sex sessions you plan to have. At least 5 sessions in 5 days is a reasonable minimum amount, unless you are too old. So, I would reach out to a minimum of 20 girls who seem attractive enough. Have fun, this back and forth with girls is actually enjoyable. Actually if you send "Hi I am Jack" message to 20 girls and you have sex with 5 of them, that is 25% success rate which is actually quite good in my view. Depending on response rate, reach out to more (or less, if too many respond back).

Also, build margin for error even in meet scheduling. What do I mean by that? Say, you have two girls reasonably interested. Instead of scheduling one for dinner tonight and one tomorrow night, ask one to meet for drinks around 6 PM and tell the other dinner is possible at 8:30 PM the same night. My experience is that a new girl can always flake out. Until you are sitting across from her, assume she may not show up. So, say the 6 Pm girl does show up and you like her and quickly agree on sex and price and everything. Then discreetly send a text to the 8:30 PM girl that sorry, something came up, you can't meet tonight but you will meet her tomorrow. As long as you give her na hour notice, she is unlikely to be pissed too much.

You need to do this because your time is precious and have only 5 days. If you lived in Lisbon permanently you don't need to do this, and I admit it looks a bit shady and selfish but hey, these girls do flake out on you just as easily. You need to watch out for yourself.

I never did sugarbabes in Lisbon but I have experience in Madrid and Barcelona. I agree Lisbon sounds cheap but I am not surprised as Portugal is not a rich country. If I made the money I make in US and somehow could live in Lisbon, I would be having too much fun and sex.

Good luck.

[QUOTE=LshRoomer;2491118]When I tried Denver and Orlando, I was there for 4 days a piece. Denver girls were very receptive. Of the 2 that I went out with, I banged one ($200) and just made out with the other. On the day I was leaving 2 more girls that I had spoken to contacted me to hang out. One was a thin redhead that I wanted to bang so bad. She couldn't find a babysitter during my whole stay I would definitely do SA in Denver again. It was harder (than EU) to negotiate in Denver, but I was able to line up about 4 girls. Unfortunately, I just didn't have the time to see them all. Orlando, as you mentioned was a desert.

In Europe, my experiences with SBs have been in Berlin, Prague, London, and warsaw. All of these cost me about 300-350 eu. I almost got baited and switched in Berlin for 500, but I shut it down before I pulled out the cash. I've had free in London, as she only wanted stuff (shoes, bags, hang out with me at nice restaurants). I find it difficult to use SA in Prague. I get plenty of initial replies, but they don't continue the correspondence. One SA girl I banged in Prague wasn't even Czech, she was Aussie. I'm still relatively new to the Sugar scene (about 2 years less this year due to being fucked by COVID). I usually use Seeking 2 weeks before I travel and this has been working pretty well..[/QUOTE]Tbh, a single 4 day trip is a very short amount of time. I think it is hardly sufficient to make any conclusion about the city. And also depends on what month etc. I mean, take Boston. I have been there on work dozens of times and have had some modest success with sugar babes through SA and yet I don't feel like I have any feel for the Boston market.

In general, you will never know any city / market as you know your home city. Unless you are one of those consultant types and are on the road 5 days a week, 48 weeks a year in which case you don't really have a home city. But I do have a stable home city, and I will always know the current market conditions and how they relate to the past and what is a god price, who is cheating, and many other things in my home city than anywhere else.

W. are. T. EU, I used SA in Spain multiple times, in Munich and Hamburg in Germany and a couple of other places. As I was saying to Jack above, Lisbon appears quite nice for SA. I found a lot of pretty girls and per his initial discussions so far he is saying prices are 150 to 200 which is quite cheap (for 2 hours. As you know, these days even FKK girls are upping their price to 150 an hour, plus door entry of another 80 or 90).

One thing, I am not sure if SA is the best site in each country. BFsie (not sure if he reads this thread) is a long time sugarbabe user and he is in Germany. Not sure which site he uses to find sugar babes. Different sites may be strong in different countries. SA is an American site and is the best for American cities but it doesn't have to be the best in all countries. For me SA works because I already have subscription, and if I'm visiting another city I can quickly check out the girls list and send a few Hello messages ahead of my visit to make some deals. If they work, they work. If they don't, I haven't lost anything because anyway I am in those cities for business reasons.

I can't disclose what's my home city as I am married and already saying too many things here. I will say though, we are rounding here right? For example 240 is rounded to 200 and 260 is rounded to 300. I don't negotiate in hundreds, my negotiations can even be 220,240 etc. Hey, I am a cheap bastard and it is my money. And I did have quite a few 200's sessions. Again, as I told Jack from NL above, in your home city, you can be patient and take time and negotiate. There are tons of girls, what is the hurry? I can also tell you that there is always no correlation between looks and price. Some really pretty, 22 year olds gave me super good sex for 220 or 240 and some slightly older, less pretty ones did not budge below 280 or 300. It all depends, every case is different.

In my experience, this sugar babe market is highly local. Within my city, some areas are richer and some not so. And if you drive an hour in each direction, the addressable area is obviously much larger. Within that radius, some are quite low end while in other directions the adjoining towns are well off. I find quite a bit of difference in the attitude of girls, prices they are willing to accept depending on where they live. One more thing. A 20 year old girl who is not supported by her family, has no family, living on her own, has to make rent every month, worse yet has a child, is a lot more amenable and pliable. Take another 21 year old, a junior studying business at the local university. Perhaps mom and dad pay her tuition, she has education, job prospects, swag. This one is looking for money for spending expenses, a fancy phone etc but also may not put out for sex immediately or has exaggerated sense of self worth. She indeed may be worth a lot of money to some other guy but for me, a pretty female body is a pretty body and I could not care any less if she has college education, can make a good convo etc. So, my point, you got to read the profile she wrote for herself, what she says, how she expresses, and also get a sense of her situation through text messages. A single mother of 20, or a girl living on her own and with no family support and doing a receptionist job, waitress Job, and has FWB in her seeking section and says "ready for any arrangement" well you know she will have sex, and probably not too hard in negotiation. The same "ready for anything" from a college girl might not even mean she will have sex, because in her mind "anything" means she is OK with a music concert vs outdoor fun outing, but sex may still be off limits. So, net net, this is a market in which one has to spend a lot of time and do a lot of home work and be patient. If I am prepared to spend 500 for every sex session, no patience is needed, I can pick anyone I want. But for good deals, you need to stay patient.

In general, the coastal areas are high priced in the US as can be expected. Well, Charleston is perhaps cheap, may be a Virginia Beach is cheap but I am talking about Boston, NYC, SF, Seattle, etc. Chicago is a megapolis but is clearly cheaper than Boston, but a good sight when it comes to sugarbabes. Under 300 is absolutely doable in Chicago, Milwaukee and in between. Miami is expensive but if you head to Ft Laud, there are quite a few places which are not so expensive. Not Palm Beach, but some other areas near Hollywood etc. Tampa is really good as I said. Obviously I did not try out every city, and NYC and SF were absolutely the worst. Borderline ugly MILFs were asking 800. I stopped even looking for sugarbabes when I travel to those cities. Canada is pretty nice but not enough personal data points for me in Canada.

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2491198]Tbh, a single 4 day trip is a very short amount of time. I think it is hardly sufficient to make any conclusion about the city. And also depends on what month etc. I mean, take Boston. I have been there on work dozens of times and have had some modest success with sugar babes through SA and yet I don't feel like I have any feel for the Boston market.

In general, you will never know any city / market as you know your home city. Unless you are one of those consultant types and are on the road 5 days a week, 48 weeks a year in which case you don't really have a home city. But I do have a stable home city, and I will always know the current market conditions and how they relate to the past and what is a god price, who is cheating, and many other things in my home city than anywhere else.

W. are. T. EU, I used SA in Spain multiple times, in Munich and Hamburg in Germany and a couple of other places. As I was saying to Jack above, Lisbon appears quite nice for SA. I found a lot of pretty girls and per his initial discussions so far he is saying prices are 150 to 200 which is quite cheap (for 2 hours. As you know, these days even FKK girls are upping their price to 150 an hour, plus door entry of another 80 or 90).

One thing, I am not sure if SA is the best site in each country. BFsie (not sure if he reads this thread) is a long time sugarbabe user and he is in Germany. Not sure which site he uses to find sugar babes. Different sites may be strong in different countries. SA is an American site and is the best for American cities but it doesn't have to be the best in all countries. For me SA works because I already have subscription, and if I'm visiting another city I can quickly check out the girls list and send a few Hello messages ahead of my visit to make some deals. If they work, they work. If they don't, I haven't lost anything because anyway I am in those cities for business reasons.[/QUOTE]Great post, but my experience is it will not go very well if you offer less then $300, just me. Pluse time is money and my time is valuable, so the more time I spend on SA, takes a way from my business.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2491216]Great post, but my experience is it will not go very well if you offer less then $300, just me. Pluse time is money and my time is valuable, so the more time I spend on SA, takes a way from my business.[/QUOTE]How much you value your time is of course personal. I enjoy this process, so yes while I spend a lot of time (sneaking away to the toilet at work and quickly shooting a few messages, stuck at the traffic light during commute and send a few back and forths.).

As for price, it is very clearly a location dependent issue, which I must have said in every single post I made in this particular thread. 300 might do it for you but might not in SF. I was in that city earlier this year and one girl said "250? I take that much for 2 hours of dinner, plus I need an upfront gift".

Look, the rent for a one bdrm in Bay Area could run 2 grand, may be 1500 in OK parts of NJ or Queens to commute to NYC, and in Kansas City could get away with less than a thou. It is not sensible to expect sugarbabe price will be the same everywhere. My rule of thumb is 4 meets a month should equate to a month rent on a one bdrm apartment in a decent neighborhood.

Also, my own equation changes if I am on the road or in my home city. On the road, my hotel is always a business expense. And I am pressed for time, so I can go a bit more. At home, if I like the girl I may keep seeing her for many months. It is much better to set a lower base for first time. If I do 300 for first meet, I will need to keep paying that much every time. And keep in mind, with a given girl you only negotiate once. If I have 4,5 semi regular girls I am set for a while. The deal is set, price is set, no need to waste time in negotiations. If you are looking for a new face every meet, then yes you have a lot of work to do.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2491216]Great post, but my experience is it will not go very well if you offer less then $300, just me. Pluse time is money and my time is valuable, so the more time I spend on SA, takes a way from my business.[/QUOTE]I signed up on SA with a buddy of mine. He loves black girls. He could always find black girls on SA for $200. I won't say where he lives except to say that he lives in a big city. But he could always score black girls on SA for $200 when he visited me in SF. The girls were usually in Oakland, which is not far from SF. Almost all of his SBs were pretty hot, tall, and slender. A lot of college students.

So, when we quote prices, I think we are assuming everyone is going after non-black girls.

BTW, please don't infer anything racist about my post. I am just stating a fact based on the experience of my buddy, that's all.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2491256]I signed up on SA with a buddy of mine. He loves black girls. He could always find black girls on SA for $200. I won't say where he lives except to say that he lives in a big city. But he could always score black girls on SA for $200 when he visited me in SF. The girls were usually in Oakland, which is not far from SF. Almost all of his SBs were pretty hot, tall, and slender. A lot of college students.

So, when we quote prices, I think we are assuming everyone is going after non-black girls.

BTW, please don't infer anything racist about my post. I am just stating a fact based on the experience of my buddy, that's all.[/QUOTE]I recall a guy from another forum who hooked up with mostly Black and some Latina hotties in a major USA City. He had a genuine attraction for dark complexions. (I do too for what it's worth.) he also confirmed your observation. I don't think it's racist to note that women from lower income levels will be more negotiable on SA. Pessimist noted below that the economic circumstances of the woman will affect their flexibility on price.

[blue][Deleted by Admin][/blue]. I wish them all luck in getting what they want.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2491256]I signed up on SA with a buddy of mine. He loves black girls. He could always find black girls on SA for $200. I won't say where he lives except to say that he lives in a big city. But he could always score black girls on SA for $200 when he visited me in SF. The girls were usually in Oakland, which is not far from SF. Almost all of his SBs were pretty hot, tall, and slender. A lot of college students..[/QUOTE]I have very clearly written the race / age / other specs of the girls I seek on SA. No need to repeat I think.

What people assume about the preferences of other guys is their problem. What I find funny around here is that some people do a few sessions in a few cities and assume them are the prices everywhere and for every girl, and in every circumstance. It is a big world, there are millions of members on SA and other sugar dating sites. To assume all arrangements have the same pricing parameters is as dumb as assuming all dinners all over the world cost the same, all clothes, all (whatever good / service) cost the same. One would hope that guys who have been smart enough to accumulate some money to afford these arrangements have more sense than making such absurd assumptions.

We are talking about a service between two specific individuals. Nothing about them is standard. The guy's and girl's looks, behavior, other personal attributes, where they live, what they need and can afford, girl's urgency for money, what they do in the time spent together, etc etc. To assume there is one standard pricing for any of this, or even that the price cannot change with good discussion and negotiation is just foolish in my view.

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2491355]I have very clearly written the race / age / other specs of the girls I seek on SA. No need to repeat I think.

What people assume about the preferences of other guys is their problem. What I find funny around here is that some people do a few sessions in a few cities and assume them are the prices everywhere and for every girl, and in every circumstance. It is a big world, there are millions of members on SA and other sugar dating sites. To assume all arrangements have the same pricing parameters is as dumb as assuming all dinners all over the world cost the same, all clothes, all (whatever good / service) cost the same. One would hope that guys who have been smart enough to accumulate some money to afford these arrangements have more sense than making such absurd assumptions.

We are talking about a service between two specific individuals. Nothing about them is standard. The guy's and girl's looks, behavior, other personal attributes, where they live, what they need and can afford, girl's urgency for money, what they do in the time spent together, etc etc. To assume there is one standard pricing for any of this, or even that the price cannot change with good discussion and negotiation is just foolish in my view.[/QUOTE]Any guy here that hasn't had long arrangements, few, or none is probably seeking general guidelines as to what certain regions may charge. You are right! There is no standard, it all depends on the girl, her situation, her desperation, her level of "proness", etc. In the end, when you explore a new city or a familiar one, the majority of prices will fall within a certain range. Can you find numbers outside of that range? Of course! I had 2 SBs that I hooked up for a long time in London. One wanted gifts and almost no money. The other wanted 300 P everytime we hung out. How the hell do you average that out for someone here asking the price in London? You can't. You have to give general guidelines, which Steve9696 put together nicely.

I've been in London for a month and sometimes weeks at a time and having those 2 SBs that you can go to really have shaped my experiences, and perception. I respectfully disagree that 4 days (in the case of Denver, etc) isn't sufficient. I have used Seeking in places where I have spent a month, weeks, and just a few days. Concerning SBs and SA, there is nothing I learned in week 4 of my stay that I didn't' already know in day 3. Of course you will know the city better, but IMHO, you don't need much time to properly judge the SB environment in a city, mainly because the girls will be different, but will usually fit within a certain range. Trading messages and chatting with tons of SBs on SA will paint a decent picture of what to expect in terms of expenditure, availability, etc. Going out and where to go. That's an experience thing that comes along with increased familiarity with a city.

It looks like you are finding nice SBs for approx 200 in EU. That hasn't been my luck so far. I've been hanging around the 300 eu mark. Just my experience.

In the end, we are all getting out, banging chicks, having experiences adn sharing here. Let's keep the info flowing (even if experiences have been contrary to each other). Stay safe.

02.

So I have two SBs that were technically fails never met up and had sex but are really satisfying.

The first one I met very early in my journey. We never met up and in fact I think I recall her saying she couldn't get down with someone my age. Ouch! But we became penpal friends. We've petered out now mostly but we used to chat about boyfriends and SBs, how she orgasms best and so much more (never used a vibrator. Wtf?). I helped her with her resume. I helped her with her med school essay. It's just been a nice friendly friendship between this old dude and a hot young chick in need of guidance. Have enjoyed it.

The second one is even more interesting. Found out early she just wanted to cam not meetup. In fact she was a lesbian or so she thought. So we got to chatting nightly. She would tell me about the guy she walks on no sex. For $200. Well one night she ended up (unrelated to SA) with a guy she really crushed on back in HS and they ended up trying to have sex. They did mish and she said it hurt and they had to stop. She remained more convinced she is a lesbian. I explained to her she needed to start on top and control insertion and it would get easier. Long story short it worked and they got it on repeatedly. Eventually they broke up but she knew she was bi not a lesbian. She got a new boyfriend and they've been living together for months. She's soooo happy. We almost never talk anymore now that she has her man. But I get true happiness knowing I set her on a different path.

So two fails = Two successes. I'm really thankful SA connects humans who wouldn't connect IRL. It's pretty cool. Of course sex is even better. LOL.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2491756]So I have two SBs that were technically fails never met up and had sex but are really satisfying.

So two fails = Two successes. I'm really thankful SA connects humans who wouldn't connect IRL. It's pretty cool. Of course sex is even better. LOL.[/QUOTE]Yeah, I made a friend on SA that I never ended up having sex with. I was in a small USA city for a couple of months, and tried the local SA scene. Found an incredibly hot half black girl who was a graduate student. She wanted to chat a bit before meetup, so we chatted and texted a bit. And it was fun chatting and texting with her. Then I found out what field she was studying in and it directly overlaps with my field, and given that we were in a small city, I got cold feet, so we didn't meet. She eventually starts to like me, from our chats and texts, and wants to meetup badly. I told her that I was a journalist, writing a story about SA, so I was not really interested in being an SD. So, we continued chatting and texting. This lasted for maybe a couple of years.

During the course of our chats and texts, she would sometimes mention how large her tits were, even though she was slim (she was some kind of college athlete as an undergrad), and that just drove me crazy. LOL. Oh well.

[QUOTE=LshRoomer;2491689] I respectfully disagree that 4 days (in the case of Denver, etc) isn't sufficient. I have used Seeking in places where I have spent a month, weeks, and just a few days. Concerning SBs and SA, there is nothing I learned in week 4 of my stay that I didn't' already know in day 3. Of course you will know the city better, but IMHO, you don't need much time to properly judge the SB environment in a city, mainly because the girls will be different, but will usually fit within a certain range. Trading messages and chatting with tons of SBs on SA will paint a decent picture of what to expect in terms of expenditure, availability, etc. Going out and where to go. That's an experience thing that comes along with increased familiarity with a city.[/QUOTE]Yeah, I pretty much agree with you. But this is only after one has become pretty experienced on SA. I started using SA in SF. Took me a while (maybe 3 months) to learn how to get the most out of it, and I was on SA a lot (like 10 hours a week). Then I tried it when I was in Vegas for work. I had to learn some new things, and not just different pricing, but also their different expectations, etc. It took me a month before I finally figured out how to get the most out of the Vegas SA scene. Then I tried it in Portland, and again, same thing, I had to learn some new things, but this time it only took me less than a couple of weeks to figure out the Portland SA scene. And so I was getting faster and better at learning new SA scenes. Eventually, whenever I got another new city, it only took me a few days to get up to speed. So, it got to the point where if I was in a new city, then just like you said, I didn't learn anything new in week 3 that I didn't already know on day 3. However, one caveat is that these were all USA cities. I am sure it will take longer to get up to speed on SA if I were traveling and using it outside of the USA.

I got the keys to my love shack yesterday. I went to the department store to buy beddings, toiletries, etc. As I was setting up my new apartment, I was thinking to myself that this is perhaps one of the craziest and most outlandish things that I have ever done in my life.

Going to use the love shack to meet my two arrangements on a regular basis.

One horrifying discovery, however, is that there is a security guard and also a front desk with workers in my building. It was the first time I realized that so many people worked in the small lobby of this building. And another horrifying discovery is that I cannot buzz people into my building. This is actually the more horrifying discovery. Every decent apartment that I know of in Shanghai has the ability to buzz people into the building. But in my new apartment, I have to fucking go downstairs to let people in. So, it won't take long for the security guards and front desk workers to know that I am only using the apartment to shag women. On the one hand, I am thinking that I should not give a shit what these people think, but on the other hand, I just do not like people knowing my business. And who knows, maybe they report me to the authorities. Maybe I'm fucked.

Biggest problem with these SA girls are getting them to show up for initial dates. Probably 1 in 4 will show up and meet you at a restaurant for a meal, although you make the date. I tell them to text me when they are on the way, or confirm the next day. Very few follow thru.

Second biggest problem are the scam artists that try to get money up front for no pussy. Baby sitters, meet up fees, sob stories. You wade thru 100 profiles and send them messages and get 7 to respond with their phone number. When you try to call them they do not answer. If you meet 1 of 100 that is par for the course.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2491793]I got the keys to my love shack yesterday. I went to the department store to buy beddings, toiletries, etc. As I was setting up my new apartment, I was thinking to myself that this is perhaps one of the craziest and most outlandish things that I have ever done in my life.

Going to use the love shack to meet my two arrangements on a regular basis.

One horrifying discovery, however, is that there is a security guard and also a front desk with workers in my building. It was the first time I realized that so many people worked in the small lobby of this building. And another horrifying discovery is that I cannot buzz people into my building. This is actually the more horrifying discovery. Every decent apartment that I know of in Shanghai has the ability to buzz people into the building. But in my new apartment, I have to fucking go downstairs to let people in. So, it won't take long for the security guards and front desk workers to know that I am only using the apartment to shag women. On the one hand, I am thinking that I should not give a shit what these people think, but on the other hand, I just do not like people knowing my business. And who knows, maybe they report me to the authorities. Maybe I'm fucked.[/QUOTE]You are just thinking too linearly. Just like everything in life, you have to have a plausible story. As for guards and front desk, get to know them. Say a few words and give them small gifts to get them to like you. For example, get them to do you a small favor (I. E. Letting in the girl) and give them a gift as appreciation. That makes it hard for them to rat you out. Is it possible to get a key for the girl? One other trick is to tell them a "friend" is coming to pick up something you forgot that you need for work. Girls can also be disguised as delivery service. The possibilities are endless. Never look guilty.

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2491355]I have very clearly written the race / age / other specs of the girls I seek on SA. No need to repeat I think.

What people assume about the preferences of other guys is their problem. What I find funny around here is that some people do a few sessions in a few cities and assume them are the prices everywhere and for every girl, and in every circumstance. It is a big world, there are millions of members on SA and other sugar dating sites. To assume all arrangements have the same pricing parameters is as dumb as assuming all dinners all over the world cost the same, all clothes, all (whatever good / service) cost the same. One would hope that guys who have been smart enough to accumulate some money to afford these arrangements have more sense than making such absurd assumptions.

We are talking about a service between two specific individuals. Nothing about them is standard. The guy's and girl's looks, behavior, other personal attributes, where they live, what they need and can afford, girl's urgency for money, what they do in the time spent together, etc etc. To assume there is one standard pricing for any of this, or even that the price cannot change with good discussion and negotiation is just foolish in my view.[/QUOTE]My sample size is small since covid has restricted my activities. That is why the more reports here the better. Data eventually reveals a pattern if you know how to evaluate it. I think the problem is between pros and non-pros. In general, pros know the regional price since they see many people and have to be in demand to earn a certain amount. Not much different that brothels and escorts. The non-pro may be clueless, be misled by articles and friends. They may be greedy or just not that willing to go with a stranger. Plus, looks and approach are going to be factors. Thanks to all who are patient and shared details. This link has been a great help. There are just too many duds. Losers, druggies, desperate moms, pic / video sellers. The others have tons of guys chasing them and it is tough to stand out. But this is a game of numbers. That is my observation of limited cities in the US. It seems other countries are much better. EU has fewer losers and druggies. Plus, they are more sex positive and going with an older man is not as much of an issue.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2491792]Yeah, I pretty much agree with you. But this is only after one has become pretty experienced on SA. I started using SA in SF. Took me a while (maybe 3 months) to learn how to get the most out of it, and I was on SA a lot (like 10 hours a week). Then I tried it when I was in Vegas for work. I had to learn some new things, and not just different pricing, but also their different expectations, etc. It took me a month before I finally figured out how to get the most out of the Vegas SA scene. Then I tried it in Portland, and again, same thing, I had to learn some new things, but this time it only took me less than a couple of weeks to figure out the Portland SA scene. And so I was getting faster and better at learning new SA scenes. Eventually, whenever I got another new city, it only took me a few days to get up to speed. So, it got to the point where if I was in a new city, then just like you said, I didn't learn anything new in week 3 that I didn't already know on day 3. However, one caveat is that these were all USA cities. I am sure it will take longer to get up to speed on SA if I were traveling and using it outside of the USA.[/QUOTE]The process of looking up girls, contacting them, negotiations and some price discovery etc work the same in all cities, whether in US or abroad. With more time in a city, you are able to reach out to more girls and have a lot more back and forth discussions and meet more of them and all those other things. He was in Denver for 4 days and met a couple and had sex and if you think that is sufficient to know all there is to know about that city, I will leave you to your view. In my city, just in the 18-28 White girl slim / curvy body group, there are thousands of girls on SA. More than 70% of them login just occasionally. SA is not their full time occupation, they all have jobs and schools and normal life. I send Hello to so many of them and I hear back from a bunch of them back weeks later and sometimes months later. I reply to their reply and takes several days for a 2nd response from them. After some chat on the site, move it to offsite chat, and eventually agree for a lunch or dinner or coffee meet, there is more time taken up. (I never skip dinner to ask for sex in the first meet. Matter of fact, I never even discuss sex in SA or on the phone. Only in person). Even the meets don't always happen as planned on time, some text the morning of the meet and say sorry I need to cancel or postpone. 50% to 70% of the meets eventually move into sex situations but not on the date of dinner itself. In fact my preference is not to have sex on the first date. That is my experience.

When I am on the road, I hit up a few girls, hurriedly try to make plans to meet with any girls who respond back. A lot less choice. So many girls say "oh you are in town this week, I am out / busy this week but can meet next week or the week after blah blah". How do you know how it would have gone with them, what they would have agreed to?

I see a lot of pushback from you guys on the $200 or low $200's pricing. Yes, you come into the city for a few days and hit up a few girls and accept the best offer among the few that you receive then I can see why your prices are consistently in the 300 to 400 or even 500. That's what happens to me when I travel to other US cities. You want better deals, you got to spend the time, learn to enjoy the process, and expand the search to more than few girls or more than a few dozen girls. I have been on road and used SA in many cities as have many of you but in my view, the deals I get or the Intel I have in my city are far better than elsewhere and that's not just because I live in a cheaper city but because here I have time, patience and can wait. If you think time and patience do not add value, again that's your view but not my view.

[QUOTE=NeilGeorge;2491826]Biggest problem with these SA girls are getting them to show up for initial dates. Probably 1 in 4 will show up and meet you at a restaurant for a meal, although you make the date. I tell them to text me when they are on the way, or confirm the next day. Very few follow thru.

Second biggest problem are the scam artists that try to get money up front for no pussy. Baby sitters, meet up fees, sob stories. You wade thru 100 profiles and send them messages and get 7 to respond with their phone number. When you try to call them they do not answer. If you meet 1 of 100 that is par for the course.[/QUOTE]This is accurate. Then there is the other problem which is a time lag. And this is what I have said multiple times.

SA is not that different from a Tinder or other matching sites. The only difference is that there is an explicit expectation of monetary help in exchange for sex / intimacy / date. BTW, Not every dude is after sex on SA. I have heard from sugarbabes that I had sex with who also had past experiences with guys that paid $200 or more for non-sex meets. Amazingly, these girls still gave me sex for similar compensation. Reminds me a bit of FKK WGs who collect 200 Euro from a naive Asian tourist and still provide you with good service for 50.

But the downside of this is that literally anyone can join the site posing as "girl seeking guy". I said this also many times. At least a good percent of "girl seeking guys" may not even be girls, may not be in my home city as they claim. If a "girl" demands 100 just to meet, how do you know it is really a girl and not a guy? S / he never meets you, pockets your 100 and move onto the next fish. They can do it all day long, as long as they are enough gullible horny desperados. For all you know, you might have been exchanging romantic sweet nothings with a pot bellied bald dude in a basement in Chechnia or Ghana. Photos mean nothing, a billion photos can be downloaded off FB and other internet and used as your own. Heck, I can join SA in an instant posing as "girl seeking guy", steal a few Romanian and Ukrainian girl photos, and hit up a lot of guys and pocket some easy money. Quite easy to do.

My rule of thumb, a girl on SA is only a girl after I actually meet her physically. Till then, she is not even a physical person. Could be a bot. And sex is on only when she is in the room and has taken off her clothes. I literally had girls who agreed to terms, came to my room, made out some while still in clothes than refused to actually have sex saying that there was some misunderstanding or some other bullshit excuse. One girl once let me lick her tits and then feigned innocence and claimed she does not do sex and another girl made out with tons of kissing and then said that is all she will let me do. I could not say anything to them because I never discuss explicit sexual acts prior to the room out of caution. Just something like "OK, let us meet at this hotel tomorrow" and with the idea that the girl knows what we are going to do. What can you say to a girl who comes to your hotel room at 8PM, lies down on the bed with you for 20 minutes with heavy petting and kissing and even fondling of tits with my hands squeezing her butt (may be still clothed) and then she says to me "I am sorry, who does sex? I am not a hooker; mutual benefits mean only some kissing"?

But the thing you have in your favor is time and patience. And over time, you collect contacts of enough number of reliable girls. In my experience, once a girl had sex with you, she will always trust you in future meets. She just relaxes around you. So, you can hit her up even after a year during which you never spoke to each other and she is still likely to respond back and at least listen to what you have to say. Plus there is no need for fresh negotiation.

The other thing is that girls change their minds. I had many girls who flat out rejected me or showed no interest in my proposals and then changed their minds a few months later. Just because a girl said does not mean it is a permanent NO, nor is it personal. When a girl says no, I wish her well and kinda keep the bridge intact. Their circumstances change. Perhaps her finances are OK now but she is broke 6 months from now. She is more open to hearing you out. Also she knows from the past you did not insult her when you said no, were polite, have been on the site long enough which makes you reliable in her eyes. These are attributes girls prize very much.

Sometimes they take months to respond. I received a reply to my initial message from a girl in Chicago 9 months after I sent a Hello to her. So, before I traveled to Chicago I sent her "Hey, I am xyz, in your town next week, love to get to know, please let me know if you want to meet up for a dinner or drink yadda yadda". She literally responded back 9 months later with "hey, just seeing this message, when are you in town"! Seriously? I mean, in that 9 months period, I visited Chicago 2 more times. But I was polite and said "well, I was in your town a while ago and may visit again, let us meet up then for a drink, BTW, here is my number".

In essence, I look at SA as a way of building my rolodex. And girls that you have been able to meet are golden. You know she is real, she will meet and you know how she really looks like in person and not in photos. Hang onto those girls and their contact #s. She might not agree to your proposal and price now, but she may change her views later on. I feel that just like in a casino the house is always favored in the long run, in this type of situation, the guy has the upper hand. Sooner or later, the girl loses her money and is back in a tough situation and will be scrambling around who can help her. With patience, you can take advantage of those situations and be ready when she is.

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2491969]This is accurate.

My rule of thumb, a girl on SA is only a girl after I actually meet her physically. Till then, she is not even a physical person. Could be a bot. And sex is on only when she is in the room and has taken off her clothes. I literally had girls who agreed to terms, came to my room, made out some while still in clothes than refused to actually have sex saying that there was some misunderstanding or some other bullshit excuse. One girl once let me lick her tits and then feigned innocence and claimed she does not do sex and another girl made out with tons of kissing and then said that is all she will let me do. I could not say anything to them because I never discuss explicit sexual acts prior to the room out of caution. Just something like "OK, let us meet at this hotel tomorrow" and with the idea that the girl knows what we are going to do. What can you say to a girl who comes to your hotel room at 8PM, lies down on the bed with you for 20 minutes with heavy petting and kissing and even fondling of tits with my hands squeezing her butt (may be still clothed) and then she says to me "I am sorry, who does sex? I am not a hooker; mutual benefits mean only some kissing"?

But the thing you have in your favor is time and patience. And over time, you collect contacts of enough number of reliable girls. In my experience, once a girl had sex with you, she will always trust you in future meets. She just relaxes around you. So, you can hit her up even after a year during which you never spoke to each other and she is still likely to respond back and at least listen to what you have to say. Plus there is no need for fresh negotiation..[/QUOTE]I take it that money never changes hands until the end. What do you do if the girl asks for money up front? This is the classic hooker scam. After the money changes hands, she says she is just there to talk. That is always the problem in the US. We are always dancing around the law and trust is not easy to achieve. It is a risk for the girl if you have sex and then refuse to pay, but it is also a risk for you if you pay / promise anything up front.

Hey Pessimist,

When you have dinner dates with no expectation of sex are you offering the girls any compensation for the initial intro dinner / meet? Just curious how you approach it. Thanks.

[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2492262]Hey Pessimist,

When you have dinner dates with no expectation of sex are you offering the girls any compensation for the initial intro dinner / meet? Just curious how you approach it. Thanks.[/QUOTE]If we agree to meet for dinner to see if we have chemistry before agreeing to head to the hotel, I usually agree to pay for dinner and maybe some money for uber / taxi but no real cash unless we actually have sex. I make it perfectly clear that there is no money if there is no honey. Only once has a woman that actually shows up for dinner (and that's its own problem) has elected not to head to the room.

Akibono -.

You are right, I have mostly given money after the deed. For the obvious (2nd) reason you mentioned and not necessarily because they take the money and then fly the scene. Thankfully that has never happened to me. (I wonder what a guy should / would do if you give the money to her before sex and she pockets it and tries to run out? Do you block her? Make a ruckus? It is a lose / lose proposition. I hope it never happens to me). I did give the money upfront on a max of 2 or 3 occasions because the girl insisted, I caved in, and all those situations were when I was on the road and not in my home city; and I regretted every single instance (not because anything bad happened, but it is just a risky gambit, giving the money first; as it could be an entrapment. I know Mongerer88 thinks entrapment is very rare or never happens but I don't want to be the one guy that has the bad luck). Lucky for me, I am still free enough to type this. I always kicked myself and promised "I will never do it again". Hope I have the sense to stay with that conviction.

One way I protect myself is not discussing sex / even FWB explicitly in any message / chat. Some girls themselves bring up sex: such as "hey handsome, what are you seeking?" "just to get to know you babe, HBU?" "well, NSA, I am down to fuck". At that point, I typically block them. Sometimes it pains me because the girl may be superhot, I obviously do want to fuck. But any explicit mention of sex, I just hang up the conversation. Can't afford to take the risk.

WyattEarp. No, I never pay for drink / dinner date. I say in my message "I do like to help out and most definitely do give an allowance, but the first meet and greet is for both of our benefit and I do NOT give anything for this meet. If that is not OK, we can stop right here". More than a small percentage drop out right there. That is just fine with me.

I typically cast a wide net precisely because I am so strict in all these things: not paying up too much, no upfront money for dinner dates, etc. The success rate is typically low. But I enjoy the process, enjoy the dialog with the girls. I am quite positive that my success rate will go up if I was paying up 400. But as I said, over time I build up a good rolodexof contacts. I still have 6 to 10 girls now who are still open to meets, although I discontinued my SA subscription now due to Covid. Just to be clear, I have given up to 300 in my city (in case people think I never give more than 200). But more than 300 is a no / no unless the girl is super foxy. Also, sometimes it could be even less. One Latina girl, just 20, went out on 3 lunch dates with me and twice we went to movies. That theater had reclining chairs, almost like flat beds. We stretched out and made out most of the movie with lots of rubbing, it was a teenager dream. I was super horny. Felt much better than most of my sex sessions. Finally we did have sex and she said give me 150, and I was like what!; so I gave her 180. Later I regretted, I was being a cheap bastard, and she went out 4 times including the sex date. That was one of my last meets before Covid brought everything to a sad halt. Latinas are not my type normally but she was nice looking and skinny and somewhat shy and quite innocent; those movie makeouts will stay with me for a while.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2491793] I have to fucking go downstairs to let people in. So, it won't take long for the security guards and front desk workers to know that I am only using the apartment to shag women. On the one hand, I am thinking that I should not give a shit what these people think, but on the other hand, I just do not like people knowing my business.[/QUOTE]Your business? You mean providing English language tuition. I just assume these people are coming for English language classes each week. Maybe accidentally dropping a few flyers might be helpful also.

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2491969]
In essence, I look at SA as a way of building my rolodex. And girls that you have been able to meet are golden. You know she is real, she will meet and you know how she really looks like in person and not in photos. Hang onto those girls and their contact #s. She might not agree to your proposal and price now, but she may change her views later on. I feel that just like in a casino the house is always favored in the long run, in this type of situation, the guy has the upper hand. Sooner or later, the girl loses her money and is back in a tough situation and will be scrambling around who can help her. With patience, you can take advantage of those situations and be ready when she is.[/QUOTE]Amen to that. I feel the same. It's all about building a rolodex. After you have met her, banged her, and had a good time, the meet ups do become easier and more relaxed. Some of these chicks try to get away with murder. I had a girl about 1 hour outside of London that I was chatting up. We moved over to whatsapp and things were actually going smooth. I told her that I would be in town in a few days and asked when she wanted to meet. Her reaction was one of surprise that I actually expected to meet her. We discussed helping her out with some cash for an application or something. She wanted me to send the money to her without ever meeting. I bailed and made it very clear with future SBs that I expect intimacy as part of our arrangement. I can only imagine how pissed I would be if an SB said that kissing is where is stops. My rule is not ot hand over the cash until the deed is done.

Because of the legal nature of pay for play in the US, I actually don't like the environment here and prefer the EU environment both for regular escorts and SA. Asia makes me curious, but I haven't heard any overwhelming positives or glowing reviews that would warrant a trip.

02.

[QUOTE=LshRoomer;2492376]Asia makes me curious, but I haven't heard any overwhelming positives or glowing reviews that would warrant a trip.

02.[/QUOTE]You are joking? Check the Philippines and Indonesia forums on this site. I cannot wait to get back to banging beauties.

[QUOTE=LshRoomer;2492376]Asia makes me curious, but I haven't heard any overwhelming positives or glowing reviews that would warrant a trip.

[/QUOTE]I agree with Brizlad. Asia should be on every monger's bucket list. In addition to what Brizlad recommended, I would add Thailand. Places like Singapore, China, and HK are going downhill with respect to mongering, IMHO, but they are still decent. And places like Japan and Korea are still pretty strong for our hobby.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2492758]I agree with Brizlad. Asia should be on every monger's bucket list. In addition to what Brizlad recommended, I would add Thailand. Places like Singapore, China, and HK are going downhill with respect to mongering, IMHO, but they are still decent. And places like Japan and Korea are still pretty strong for our hobby.[/QUOTE]I agree. I think Thailand should be first on the list for first timer. It has more varieties, food, accommodation, more things to see and do. You can get around town by subway, moto, taxi, and boat. Pretty much everything is in walking distance if you don't mind walking.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2492758]I agree with Brizlad. Asia should be on every monger's bucket list. In addition to what Brizlad recommended, I would add Thailand. Places like Singapore, China, and HK are going downhill with respect to mongering, IMHO, but they are still decent. And places like Japan and Korea are still pretty strong for our hobby.[/QUOTE]Don't know how Korea got on your "decent" list. My experience was that it was super hard to find solid FS providers. I can usually crack the nut in any country I go to with enough research — even Taiwan which is painfully hard to crack. But I never broke thru to more than a naughty handjob in Seoul. What's the secret decoder ring.

Agree Thailand and Japan are worth a visit. Thailand is easy and obvious. Japan takes a bit of research to find the Gaijin friendly (round eyes) options.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2492870]Don't know how Korea got on your "decent" list. My experience was that it was super hard to find solid FS providers. I can usually crack the nut in any country I go to with enough research even Taiwan which is painfully hard to crack. But I never broke thru to more than a naughty handjob in Seoul. What's the secret decoder ring.

Agree Thailand and Japan are worth a visit. Thailand is easy and obvious. Japan takes a bit of research to find the Gaijin friendly (round eyes) options.[/QUOTE]This will come off as a huge generalization, but so be it: Japanese and Korean doods are some of the horniest guys on the planet, so you know those countries have to have amazing mongering opportunities. Pretty much all Japanese and Korean wives just accept that their husbands are screwing pros regularly. But again, probably a generalization.

I went to Korea for the first time in 1999, and then work kept putting me back in Korea through 2003, so my experience may seem outdated, but I sometimes look at the Seoul thread and it looks like it's still a mongering hotspot (pre-covid, of course).

I remember one time, at a KTV, the girls announced that our time was over and so they put on a final show. I forget all the details, but the finale involved them getting naked and giving us all BBBJs in the room, LOL. But that said, almost all of my mongering activities in Korea was with someone else that knew the ropes, so I just tagged along for the fun ride. But it was just a crazy scene. I remember many nights before we went out drinking, we would go to a brothel and screw, and then go out drinking and eating, and end up at another brothel before going back to the hotel or just ordering outcall to the hotel, or order room service from the hotel SPA. In those days, almost every hotel's SPA had room service.

One unique thing about Korea is that they have Kiss Bangs (kiss rooms). You pick a girl, you go to a little room together, both brush your teeth and rinse with mouthwash, and then make out for 30 minutes. LOL, how crazy is that? But it was pretty awesome.

You're an obvious foreigner. I'm surprised you weren't approached by pimps on the street outside your hotel. That happened to me a lot, but I never talked to them since I was already set.

But again, maybe the scene isn't crazy as it used to be, but when I look at the Seoul thread, it brings back fond memories and I oftentimes get jealous.

Maybe I just got lucky that I had locals (work-related colleagues) that helped me.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2492758]I agree with Brizlad. Asia should be on every monger's bucket list. In addition to what Brizlad recommended, I would add Thailand. Places like Singapore, China, and HK are going downhill with respect to mongering, IMHO, but they are still decent. And places like Japan and Korea are still pretty strong for our hobby.[/QUOTE]Since it appears you are talking about the broader P4P category, has Hong Kong really gone downhill? For some reason, the Wan Chai hooker club scene has gone downhill. However, the walk-up scene had seemed to be going strong. I do realize the HK walk-up scene is impersonal and kind of wham-bam thank you ma'am affair. It is kind of fun though.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2493060]This will come off as a huge generalization, but so be it: Japanese and Korean doods are some of the horniest guys on the planet, so you know those countries have to have amazing mongering opportunities. Pretty much all Japanese and Korean wives just accept that their husbands are screwing pros regularly. But again, probably a generalization.

I went to Korea for the first time in 1999, and then work kept putting me back in Korea through 2003, so my experience may seem outdated, but I sometimes look at the Seoul thread and it looks like it's still a mongering hotspot (pre-covid, of course).

I remember one time, at a KTV, the girls announced that our time was over and so they put on a final show. I forget all the details, but the finale involved them getting naked and giving us all BBBJs in the room, LOL. But that said, almost all of my mongering activities in Korea was with someone else that knew the ropes, so I just tagged along for the fun ride. But it was just a crazy scene. I remember many nights before we went out drinking, we would go to a brothel and screw, and then go out drinking and eating, and end up at another brothel before going back to the hotel or just ordering outcall to the hotel, or order room service from the hotel SPA. In those days, almost every hotel's SPA had room service.

One unique thing about Korea is that they have Kiss Bangs (kiss rooms). You pick a girl, you go to a little room together, both brush your teeth and rinse with mouthwash, and then make out for 30 minutes. LOL, how crazy is that? But it was pretty awesome.

You're an obvious foreigner. I'm surprised you weren't approached by pimps on the street outside your hotel. That happened to me a lot, but I never talked to them since I was already set.

But again, maybe the scene isn't crazy as it used to be, but when I look at the Seoul thread, it brings back fond memories and I oftentimes get jealous.

Maybe I just got lucky that I had locals (work-related colleagues) that helped me.[/QUOTE]I forgot to mention the "sports massage. " Did you see those? I'm not 100% sure, but I think "sports massage" is code for "sauna. " Every sports massage place that I ever went into was a sauna experience. Girl bathes with you, then gives you a massage, then takes off her clothes and etc. And it ends with FS.

In 2004, my territory got switched to Singapore, but I went back to Korea in 2009 or 2010, and it seemed like the scene was still the same. However, I have to admit that most of my mongering in Korea was KTVs that my work related friends took me too. It's the usual drill: after the KTV, you negotiate with the manager to take the girl back to the hotel with you for overnight.

But I guess long story short on Korea is that I got lucky with my Korean friends taking care of me.

BTW, Singapore in the mid-2000's was also amazing. Orchard Towers is known as the "four floors of (rhymes with hoars)." It is a building with a dozen bars, and most of the bars were take out places. Almost every shopping center had a "health center," on the top floor, which was a FS MP / sauna, and then there was the Geylang District. Oh, man, that was quite a scene in those days. Hundreds of pros on the streets. Indos on one street. Malays on another. Indians on another. Chinese on another. Etc. The prices were amazingly low. Maybe around $60 for an hour. And a ST hotel was $20 per hour. Singapore isn't like that anymore. I would no longer recommend it as a mongering destination. But now I digress. Sorry.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2493060]This will come off as a huge generalization, but so be it: Japanese and Korean doods are some of the horniest guys on the planet, so you know those countries have to have amazing mongering opportunities. Pretty much all Japanese and Korean wives just accept that their husbands are screwing pros regularly. But again, probably a generalization.

I went to Korea for the first time in 1999, and then work kept putting me back in Korea through 2003, so my experience may seem outdated, but I sometimes look at the Seoul thread and it looks like it's still a mongering hotspot (pre-covid, of course).

I remember one time, at a KTV, the girls announced that our time was over and so they put on a final show. I forget all the details, but the finale involved them getting naked and giving us all BBBJs in the room, LOL. But that said, almost all of my mongering activities in Korea was with someone else that knew the ropes, so I just tagged along for the fun ride. But it was just a crazy scene. I remember many nights before we went out drinking, we would go to a brothel and screw, and then go out drinking and eating, and end up at another brothel before going back to the hotel or just ordering outcall to the hotel, or order room service from the hotel SPA. In those days, almost every hotel's SPA had room service.

One unique thing about Korea is that they have Kiss Bangs (kiss rooms). You pick a girl, you go to a little room together, both brush your teeth and rinse with mouthwash, and then make out for 30 minutes. LOL, how crazy is that? But it was pretty awesome.

You're an obvious foreigner. I'm surprised you weren't approached by pimps on the street outside your hotel. That happened to me a lot, but I never talked to them since I was already set.

But again, maybe the scene isn't crazy as it used to be, but when I look at the Seoul thread, it brings back fond memories and I oftentimes get jealous.

Maybe I just got lucky that I had locals (work-related colleagues) that helped me.[/QUOTE]First I got to agree with your generalization. I know the PC world wants to say people are all the same but they aren't. And I know quite a few asian guys who have told me straight up it's as you say. It's culturally different there. That said in Korea you need an in in order to play in that world. Even tho it's tamer these days; I am sure it's still off the hook for the locals. But they don't let foreigners crack the shell. That's why your experience was so different. You had an in sounds totally awesome.

In Taiwan I was able to get a Line broker and arrange Karaoke under heavy security no joke all thanks to a connection I made here on ISG. Without that Taiwan is a chaste ghost town. Same for Seoul. Just never cracked the shell.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2493197]First I got to agree with your generalization. I know the PC world wants to say people are all the same but they aren't. And I know quite a few asian guys who have told me straight up it's as you say. It's culturally different there.[/QUOTE]Midwestern is an expert on Asia. On my few business trips to Asia, my male colleagues essentially compartmentalize their extracurricular sex lives from their wives and family. It's all quite accepted including formal mistresses. It is a cultural aspect different from what we know in Western society.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2493197]That said in Korea you need an in in order to play in that world. Even tho it's tamer these days; I am sure it's still off the hook for the locals. But they don't let foreigners crack the shell. That's why your experience was so different. You had an in sounds totally awesome.[/QUOTE]Yeah, you're right. In the past couple of days, I started recalling my experiences in Korea, and I also recalled at least a half dozen episodes of racism towards me, because I'm a foreigner. So, I bet it is hard to monger as a foreigner in Korea without "an in. " Koreans are quite nationalistic, and it might be one of the most racists places on earth. I recall one of my Korean friends telling me that it goes back to Korea being occupied by the Japanese, and so Koreans are fiercely about Koreans, especially with our generation.

[QUOTE=JackOfNone;2493292]Hi Pessimist,

Thank you for your very valid advice and apologies for my delayed reply. Being a pessimist like you and an over-planner, I am on the same page. I have around 10 girls who are willing to meet during the 5 days with most willing to spend the night and the rest want to spend at least a couple of hours. For the ones that I really like, I am in regular touch on whassapp to groom them a little bit and try to see which one has a high possibility of flaking out. My backup plan in case one flakes out on a day is a really nice brothel with great girls which I used to frequent during my previous visits to Lisbon, so if someone flakes out, I would at least have some place to release the load. Failing that, there is a nice outcall agency with a good number of highly reviewed girls. Your advice about lining up two girls in one evening is interesting and I will see if I can implement it.

Since Corona was rising fast in Lisbon, I also looked at Germany the past few days as an alternative if it is no longer feasible / too risky to fly to Lisbon last minute due to high number of cases. Germany is easily reachable for me and does not require flights. Same strategy in Germany, line up at least double the number of girls as days, amd stay in touch on whassapp with the high potential ones, reconfirming with them multiple times they are still planning to meet. Lets see where I end up, Lisbon or Germany. Going to decide on Sunday. Bad thing about Germany is that I do not know the mongering scene as good as I know Lisbon, so high chances of ending up with blue balls if someone stands me up.

Hit a huge blocker today when my SA account was blocked only after a week from activation. Reason was: "solicitation of prostitution". I talked to cust service and they said that they had multiple verified reports of me trying to exchange sex for money, which of course is what I was doing. Since I was being a little bit explicit with girls (did not mention sex, but things like 'doing what people do to make babies, except we are not going to make babies' maybe someone got offended and reported me. In addition, I had something like "looking for PPM arrangements" in my profile description. The cust service also said that I was banned from creating a profile on SA ever and if I did, they would pursue the case with legal authorities. Fortunately, I had moved most conversations to whassapp so most of the arrangements in Lisbon and Germany are not affected. Although there was a cutie in Germany whose number I do not have and I am fuming.

My question is, has this happened with anyone? And do you think I should take the risk to create the profile again? Also, if I create it again, what precautions should I take? I know I should move the conversation from SA to other mediums ASAP, but what is acceptable or not acceptable to discuss on SA? I learnt the lesson about profile description and going to mention anything about PPM if I create the profile again.[/QUOTE]Oh no. Very sorry to hear. I guess that means you lost your 80 or 90 bucks fee to the site? That is a bit crummy on their part keeping the money and revoking your subscription.

SA kicks girls out extremely frequently. I lost count of how many girls said to me that their account got suspended. (I have directly been responsible for getting one girl kicked off the site at least 30 times. She is a scammer, and every time I spot her I immediately flag her to the admin and they do listen to me / perhaps others also who may be complaining and she is kicked out but she gets a new name and resurfaces on the site in less than a week. It has become a bit of joke). Many girls get their account suspended because guys complain about them about anything silly, or the admin does not like something has in her profile, etc. Girls do not pay, it doesn't cost them anything (except contacts), and if the girl is serious and dedicated, she will reestablish a new account and is back on the site. Sometimes, it also happens that the girl's account is suspended temporarily but the admin reinstates their accounts back after some quick verification.

Generally SA admin is far more tolerant of the guys because we pay. They hate to lose paying subscribers. I have been on the site for more than 4, nearing 5 years now and never had any problems. For the last couple of months I am no longer paying though, as my 3 month subscription ran out and I did not renew it as I am not looking to meet any girls until the pandemic is over / a reliable vaccine is fully available.

I am surprised they revoked your subscription. Of course I don't know what all the guys are saying to the girls. But several sugarbabes that I met have told me that by and large more than 50% of messages they receive are pretty nasty, explicit, etc. Yet SA admins don't seem to be kicking out such guys form the site.

My guess is that they cut your subscription because you had explicit discussion of money for sex. If you had said "oh baby, you look so hot, you make me horny, I want to lick your pussy, fuck you in the ass, fill you up with my hot goo, blah blah" they are OK with that even though the girl might find it disgusting. But if you say "I will give you 150 bucks if you will provide BJ", although what you said is far more respectful than the prior dialog, it is considered solicitation. SA is trying hard to not get taken down like backpage, so they will not allow it.

Normally, I stay away from all references to sex. When the girls ask, I say "yes, I give allowance". When they say how much I may say "well, it depends but in the past it has ranged between 200 to 300 a week". If the girl says what do you expect from me for that money, I will say "I just want to get to know you, have an enjoyable time and hope we are both happy". If she presses "what will we do when we meet" I say "it depends on what we each like, no two meets are identical as every girl likes something different". Basically, I refuse to get pinned down. Any girl with some brain realizes that 200 is a large enough amount that sex is to be expected. In any case, if she misunderstood and tells me "no sex" after we are in the room, I will of course not give her 200 or 300 or whatever; she will be sent back with nothing.

I am also surprised about PPM getting you into trouble. A lot of girls also have PPM in their profile description. If there is no sex, then it is absolutely legal to give her money on a per meet basis. It is the combination of PPM and sex that makes it illegal. But yeah, instead of PPM, you might say "will give allowance". In the discussion, you can talk how the allowance works.

I realize you were trying to be more obvious because you had a short amount of time and you are trying to close the deal with certainty. This is the pitfall of short term visits when on the road. If you were living in Lisbon permanently, you can take your time and be very discreet in how you say things in discussions.

Also, I am curious if SA has the same rules in all countries. I always wondered about this and don't know the answer. For instance, in a country where prostitution is quite legal, why should SA ban anyone when they discuss money for sex? Say, Germany. Prostitution is quite legal. If a German guy proposes money for sex on SA, will the SA admin kick out the guy? On what basis? What if an American dude proposes money for sex on SA to a German girl? It is illegal for the American but legal for the German girl. So, perhaps they will stop it. What if the American dude is visiting Germany, finds a German local girl while he is in DE and proposes money for sex? Technically, it should be legal as both parties are located in DE where prostitution is legal. But in all this, does SA know where the guy and girl are located? I don't think so. They don't have location specific information on all the parties all the time. SO, my guess is, they just are putting a blanket ban on any dialog of money for sex.

Lesson learned. Hope it works out for you whether you get back on SA again, or with the girls you already have in hand. Good luck.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2493379]Yeah, you're right. In the past couple of days, I started recalling my experiences in Korea, and I also recalled at least a half dozen episodes of racism towards me, because I'm a foreigner. So, I bet it is hard to monger as a foreigner in Korea without "an in. " Koreans are quite nationalistic, and it might be one of the most racists places on earth. I recall one of my Korean friends telling me that it goes back to Korea being occupied by the Japanese, and so Koreans are fiercely about Koreans, especially with our generation.[/QUOTE]Most countries are protective of their women. They do not like rich foreigners outbidding them. The US has had a presence in Korea since the Korean war. Those soldiers bang the local women. When Korea was poor, they accepted it because they needed the money. Now they are rich and do not have to submit to that. Call it nationalism or racism. Plus, there is a perception that foreigners introduce disease so they are generally considered not welcome. In Korea and Japan, going to a brothel is like taking your friends to a bar or a strip club in the US. It is a form of male bonding. The only difference is they don't have an obsession on size like the US. There is also not a culture of feminism, but that too is changing. There is also a difference approach to sex. Sex is viewed more as pleasure a woman gives to a man. The man is more passive. The women is there to please you. The west looks at sex more like a conquest of women and what you can do to them.

First and foremost, SA is my go to here in the states and internationally. I am planning a trip to Puebla Mexico in two weeks. I have been active on SA for about 2 weeks now in Puebla. It's like shooting fish in a barrel. I can never get to all the girls that want to see me while I am there. SA is a little expensive and takes a little work, but well worth it in my opinion. Does anyone have any go to's in Puebla? I don't want to miss out on the best.

[QUOTE=JackOfNone;2493292]Hi Pessimist,

Thank you for your very valid advice and apologies for my delayed reply. Being a pessimist like you and an over-planner, I am on the same page. I have around 10 girls who are willing to meet during the 5 days with most willing to spend the night and the rest want to spend at least a couple of hours. For the ones that I really like, I am in regular touch on whassapp to groom them a little bit and try to see which one has a high possibility of flaking out. My backup plan in case one flakes out on a day is a really nice brothel with great girls which I used to frequent during my previous visits to Lisbon, so if someone flakes out, I would at least have some place to release the load. Failing that, there is a nice outcall agency with a good number of highly reviewed girls. Your advice about lining up two girls in one evening is interesting and I will see if I can implement it.

Since Corona was rising fast in Lisbon, I also looked at Germany the past few days as an alternative if it is no longer feasible / too risky to fly to Lisbon last minute due to high number of cases. Germany is easily reachable for me and does not require flights. Same strategy in Germany, line up at least double the number of girls as days, amd stay in touch on whassapp with the high potential ones, reconfirming with them multiple times they are still planning to meet. Lets see where I end up, Lisbon or Germany. Going to decide on Sunday. Bad thing about Germany is that I do not know the mongering scene as good as I know Lisbon, so high chances of ending up with blue balls if someone stands me up.

Hit a huge blocker today when my SA account was blocked only after a week from activation. Reason was: "solicitation of prostitution". I talked to cust service and they said that they had multiple verified reports of me trying to exchange sex for money, which of course is what I was doing. Since I was being a little bit explicit with girls (did not mention sex, but things like 'doing what people do to make babies, except we are not going to make babies' maybe someone got offended and reported me. In addition, I had something like "looking for PPM arrangements" in my profile description. The cust service also said that I was banned from creating a profile on SA ever and if I did, they would pursue the case with legal authorities. Fortunately, I had moved most conversations to whassapp so most of the arrangements in Lisbon and Germany are not affected. Although there was a cutie in Germany whose number I do not have and I am fuming.

My question is, has this happened with anyone? And do you think I should take the risk to create the profile again? Also, if I create it again, what precautions should I take? I know I should move the conversation from SA to other mediums ASAP, but what is acceptable or not acceptable to discuss on SA? I learnt the lesson about profile description and going to mention anything about PPM if I create the profile again.[/QUOTE]SA specifically frowns on PPM because it smacks of prostitution. So everyone should avoid that word. Girls don't like it anyhow (unless they are pros). It's always a gift / allowance. And definitely don't be so explicit as "making babies". Private time, intimate time, room time, adult time. They will al work equally well. I usually say "if we really like each other like I think we will we will want to go private. " Or "do what adults do when they like each other". They know what you are talking about.

Best of course to take it off SA.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2493585]SA specifically frowns on PPM because it smacks of prostitution. So everyone should avoid that word. Girls don't like it anyhow (unless they are pros). It's always a gift / allowance. And definitely don't be so explicit as "making babies". Private time, intimate time, room time, adult time. They will al work equally well. I usually say "if we really like each other like I think we will we will want to go private. " Or "do what adults do when they like each other". They know what you are talking about.

Best of course to take it off SA.[/QUOTE]I never, never talk money or sex on SA. I tell them I would love to see them. Get their text number. And have those conversations. I have been using SA for years.

[QUOTE=JackOfNone;2493632]Yep, lesson learnt definitely! Unfortunately an expensive lesson. Definitely going to be more subtle on SA in future and going to take the conversation to other mediums ASAP. So if I understand correctly, you know of people creating other profiles after getting banned and SA not being able to judge that this was the same person? Any legal or criminal action seems a very long shot if this is the case.[/QUOTE]Only women. I don't know any other men. But yes, women are kicked out quite frequently. Often for no reason whatsoever, because the site is not very stable. But girls do not pay, so no loss for them. Sometimes, the site reinstates their membership on their own; sometimes, the girl takes a new membership (free of course) with a new name.

I doubt that they will file any legal suit which is expensive for them as well. One thing I know, the site hates to lose paying customers and hates to spend money. But the mere threat of such legal action is enough to deter most violators. Also, they can refer you to local police if it comes to it. Even that is not something they prefer in my view because it is unwanted attention. If you use a new name and cut out all references to sex / money exchange, then they should let you live in peace.

Given the recent experience of JackOfNone, with him being kicked off of SA, it makes me wonder if there is a near perfect substitute for SA.

When I was on SA a few years ago, I remember there was another site that was doing the same thing. I looked at it, and to my surprise, many of the SBs on SA were also on this other website too. I forget the name of this other site.

I just googled sugar baby dating just now, and it looks like there are several alternatives. However, rather than do a deep dive due diligence research of these other sites, I figured it would be more useful to tap the experience and expertise of the members of this forum.

Anyone know of a good alternative to SA? Especially something that can be used in many different countries, like SA? People reporting on their personal experiences on an alternative site, especially when it was used abroad, would be particularly appreciated.

For me, the reason I ask is not just for JackOfNone, but also for myself. I recently tried to reactivate my old SA subscription, but I got blocked. I was trying to renew it from Shanghai, and so maybe the VPN triggered the block. I realize that I can contact customer service, but now I am thinking about trying out another site.

TIA.

In my view, the strength of local listings is most important. If a sugar daddy site has 10,000 babes in Munich but only a few hundred in my home city, it does not help me much. I have only used secret benefits and [URL]sugardaddy.com[/URL], and only for short periods. I didn't like the usage based pricing on secret benefits and the quality and quantity of girls was worse than on SA. That was 3 years ago, and things may have improved. I also did not travel when I had secret benefits subscription and who knows if it had better listings in other cities. This is why I think it is important for guys to check out sites which are good in their area. I like SA, it has a good number of girls and quality is good. Granted many "girls" are scammers but that may be true on other sugarbabe sites as well. How can a site weed out scammer girls anyway? They can demand to see full identification before allowing a girl to obtain account but that may deter many girls to not join the site at all.

I feel for Jack, but in reality that may happen on other sites as well. Sites want to stay alive and not be shut down by LE. If solicitation happens on the site openly, it is at big risk. The site owners are making ridiculous amounts of money. They would do anything to keep that money coming in, so it is in their interest to remove even traces of solicitation and make it appear like SA is very clean.

BFsie is not in this thread I guess but he is a long time user of sugarbabe babes and he is in DE I think. I don't know if SA is the best site to use in DE. They may have a local site which is better than SA. Guys should do their own research and see what works for them locally.

Getting banned on SA for being too forward in a quest for sex seems to be a common mistake. I've read about this happening to several men on several forums discussing SA. The contradictions on the SA site are everywhere. You have sexy, young girls posting bikini shots "Seeking. Friend with benefits, No strings attached, Discretion". It's easy to get confused about the mating dance on the site.

It's easy to make assumptions like "everyone knows what the site is for". Yet, there are girls declaring they are only seeking platonic relationships. Then there are older women who seem to be looking only for some attention. Since it has been said the woman don't pay to post their profile, I guess it's always going to be a very mixed bag of intentions from the women on the site. They can give anything a shot when it don't cost nothin'.

As has been mentioned you have to anticipate ASD (anti-**** defenses) and gently navigate them. I have given Steve repeated credit for this adage, but it still makes sense to keep the money as far away as possible from the sex. I am a SA apprentice, but I have been in these type of relationships overseas. Gifts, allowances, help with living expenses, whatever you want to call it, make the arrangement acceptable to the young women.

[QUOTE=JackOfNone;2493899]I have very limited experience compared to all of you experienced guys, but here goes my 2 cents. The local sugar website in my local country doesn't hold a candle to seeking. The girls on SA are much, much more DTF and don't mind talking about short arrangements right away. They are also much more beautiful. I know the bait-and-switch about the photoshopped photos, but you can just immediately see the difference right away. Its like everyone knows exactly why they are here. Whereas on the local site (where I spent a couple of months), a lot of girls were just curious or get offended when you try to steer the conversation towards sex. Maybe I am just not that patient haha. In my opinion, if you are trying to build a long term thing, my country's local website is an option. But if you are looking to fuck in the not so far future, SA all the way.[/QUOTE]Did SA have more girls in your local city than the native sugar babe site you tried in your local city?

My guess is that SA being the most popular site, has reasonably good number of girl listings in many major European cities but US still has the most listings (not sure if Canada does too). I just did a spot check how many girls are on the site at this minute in my city and a few large European cities. Within a radius of 50 miles, I counted 220+ women in my city (no filters; I. E. All ages, ethnicity, shapes and sizes). When I did the same spot check in 5,6 European cities on SA, at the moment less than 20 to 40 girls were present. Madrid had 130 but Madrid is much bigger than where I live. Also, there are 6 to 7 hours time difference between where I live to these European cities. My experience is that most girls login to the site in the evenings, whereas it is approximately 1 PM in the afternoon here.

SA and sugarbabe is largely a US phenomenon. Much like [URL]match.com[/URL] began here, most of the social media, and other such technologies were born here. It may be that locals are less familiar with the concept of internet matched sugar babe / daddy in many other places such as Europe. Numbers may increase in future. In my own experience, I see many more girls on SA in both my own city and also in many European cities now than there used to be in the past. 4 years ago, the number of available girls were absolutely far fewer than now.

I also get the sense that SA caters to American / English speak men to a larger extent. The traveling American male so to speak. Many girls in non English speaking countries go out of their way to let us know they can speak English and even write their profile description in English. Why would they need to do it if their primary clientele is a non English speaking local man? There must be a lot of Americans on the road and these girls target such men as main customers / daddies.

I am planning a weekend trip soon to another city. I've been cruising SA and of course working the usual angles. A few promising prospects. Plus Layla wants to go with me but I am not sure that's worth it. And I have another new local prospect but after an amazing first date she dodged a kiss and has been luke warm.

So I figure no harm just pinging Alexa (Vegas December) and saying hey want to fly to xxx and meet me for the weekend? Just a flyer to keep my options open. Gave it a one in ten chance.

Boom. She's like absolutely! Flights are booked and hotel is booked. It was two hours from "crazy idea" to seeing Alexa for a weekend. Sure pays to have the Rolodex! Totally stoked.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2494336]I am planning a weekend trip soon to another city. I've been cruising SA and of course working the usual angles. A few promising prospects. Plus Layla wants to go with me but I am not sure that's worth it. And I have another new local prospect but after an amazing first date she dodged a kiss and has been luke warm.

So I figure no harm just pinging Alexa (Vegas December) and saying hey want to fly to xxx and meet me for the weekend? Just a flyer to keep my options open. Gave it a one in ten chance.

Boom. She's like absolutely! Flights are booked and hotel is booked. It was two hours from "crazy idea" to seeing Alexa for a weekend. Sure pays to have the Rolodex! Totally stoked.[/QUOTE]Good move, man. Have fun. I always feel that once you fucked a girl once, then you can usually fuck them again. Even when a year or two goes by. Even if she gets married or has a BF later. It's weird, man. It's almost as if the girl thinks, "I fucked him already, so what's the big deal if we fuck again. ".

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2494420]Good move, man. Have fun. I always feel that once you fucked a girl once, then you can usually fuck them again. Even when a year or two goes by. Even if she gets married or has a BF later. It's weird, man. It's almost as if the girl thinks, "I fucked him already, so what's the big deal if we fuck again. ".[/QUOTE]Haha, so true. That's why you can hook-up with ex-GFs. They're horny and it doesn't add to their "number".

[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2493104]Since it appears you are talking about the broader P4P category, has Hong Kong really gone downhill? For some reason, the Wan Chai hooker club scene has gone downhill. However, the walk-up scene had seemed to be going strong. I do realize the HK walk-up scene is impersonal and kind of wham-bam thank you ma'am affair. It is kind of fun though.[/QUOTE]Your assessment of the HK scene is spot on, IMO. I was in HK last year, and the Wan Chai club scene was dead. A caveat is that I was there a bit early, around 11 pm and on a weekday, but it still means that it isn't what it used to be.

The MP scene is just horrible.

But the walkups (though it's now getting harder to find gems) and also the 141 action are still hopping.

So, overall, I couldn't recommend HK just for the walkups and the 141 scene.

BTW, if you guys haven't tried the 141 scene, you guys are missing out on a very unusual and crazy way to monger. This is off topic, so I won't bother describing it unless there's a request.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2494711]Your assessment of the HK scene is spot on, IMO. I was in HK last year, and the Wan Chai club scene was dead. A caveat is that I was there a bit early, around 11 pm and on a weekday, but it still means that it isn't what it used to be.

The MP scene is just horrible.

But the walkups (though it's now getting harder to find gems) and also the 141 action are still hopping.

So, overall, I couldn't recommend HK just for the walkups and the 141 scene.

BTW, if you guys haven't tried the 141 scene, you guys are missing out on a very unusual and crazy way to monger. This is off topic, so I won't bother describing it unless there's a request.[/QUOTE]Please, do share.

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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2494711]Your assessment of the HK scene is spot on, IMO. I was in HK last year, and the Wan Chai club scene was dead. A caveat is that I was there a bit early, around 11 pm and on a weekday, but it still means that it isn't what it used to be.

The MP scene is just horrible.

But the walkups (though it's now getting harder to find gems) and also the 141 action are still hopping.

So, overall, I couldn't recommend HK just for the walkups and the 141 scene.

BTW, if you guys haven't tried the 141 scene, you guys are missing out on a very unusual and crazy way to monger. This is off topic, so I won't bother describing it unless there's a request.[/QUOTE]Do tell. What is 141 and is it unique to HK?

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2494736]Do tell. What is 141 and is it unique to HK?[/QUOTE]Google "Fuji Building, Hong Kong" or "141" with sex just before it.


These are skyscraper blocks full of small rooms (brothels) all over the place. All legal in HK. To be seen to be believed. Not aware there are located in any other place.

[QUOTE=Jackthelad2;2494748]Google "Fuji Building, Hong Kong" or "141" with sex just before it.
.[/QUOTE]Thanks! I watched a couple of Youtube videos; the rooms look dingy and the "girls" not my type. Looks like a 1970's movie scene depicting an AMP, tbh. I guess if I were a permanent HK resident with no other sex avenue I might consider it as a last minute desperate measure but when I watch this Fuji building I realized how good are the FKKs and how much I miss them. For that matter, even in HK I will look to find sugar babes if I am stuck there for a long time (and assuming I have the confidence the local commies will not throw me in jail on one pretext or other).

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2494736]Do tell. What is 141 and is it unique to HK?[/QUOTE]I'm not a total expert on the HK scene, but 141 is an ad website and "141 girls" seems to also be a nickname for the girls in the walkups. I don't know which came first. 141 has escort ads, but it is also is ubiquitous for promoting the walkup building girls.

You basically walk around a building with girls in small dorms some with a small shower. There's prices posted on the door. You knock on the door. If you don't like what you see, you say thank you and move to the next. It's mostly Asian girls, but a few Russian girls seem to be in the Fuji building. It's definitely wham-bam thank you ma'am.

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2494764]Thanks! I watched a couple of Youtube videos; the rooms look dingy and the "girls" not my type. Looks like a 1970's movie scene depicting an AMP, tbh. I guess if I were a permanent HK resident with no other sex avenue I might consider it as a last minute desperate measure but when I watch this Fuji building I realized how good are the FKKs and how much I miss them. For that matter, even in HK I will look to find sugar babes if I am stuck there for a long time (and assuming I have the confidence the local commies will not throw me in jail on one pretext or other).[/QUOTE]The 141 walk-up girls are definitely do your deed move on. You can also get a so-so massage before or after if you want some relaxation.

I'm fine with the Fuji Building (the best looking girls IMHO) on the island side and 33-35 Carnavon Road (decent girls) with ground floor 7-11 store on the Kowloon side. The rooms are decorated cutesy with stuff posted on the wall like what you would expect from young girls. The rooms usually have single beds. These two buildings seem like a women's dorm to me. I think many of the girls live there during their days working. Nothing fancy, but serviceable.

Believe me, there are some hellhole walk-up buildings around HK. If you like adventure and the feeling you are doing an illicit deed in a 1950's gritty black and white movie, those buildings are for you.

If you have any questions, I can try to answer them via PM.

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2494764]Thanks! I watched a couple of Youtube videos; the rooms look dingy and the "girls" not my type. Looks like a 1970's movie scene depicting an AMP, tbh. I guess if I were a permanent HK resident with no other sex avenue I might consider it as a last minute desperate measure but when I watch this Fuji building I realized how good are the FKKs and how much I miss them. For that matter, even in HK I will look to find sugar babes if I am stuck there for a long time (and assuming I have the confidence the local commies will not throw me in jail on one pretext or other).[/QUOTE]The building is old but the rooms are relatively clean with shower.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2494420]Good move, man. Have fun. I always feel that once you fucked a girl once, then you can usually fuck them again. Even when a year or two goes by. Even if she gets married or has a BF later. It's weird, man. It's almost as if the girl thinks, "I fucked him already, so what's the big deal if we fuck again. ".[/QUOTE]Well the vegas girl is possibly more "professional" and he is prepared to pay which is more than we would do for a bitter ex-GF.

Of course, I too like to keep my free ex-GF open but for me I have found that they need to have 'moved-on' and be with a new partner. If they are single and looking then they think my rekindled interest is more than sex.

[QUOTE=Nounce;2494854]The building is old but the rooms are relatively clean with shower.[/QUOTE]Sorry, didn't mean to come across as snotty and judgmental. You are right, the corridors did not look inviting. Did not get a good look at the rooms. But anyway, I guess I am spoiled by large FKKs. Not even all the FKKs are that good, with regards to facilities for that matter.

Depictions of the 141 scene from WyattEarp are pretty spot on. Here's my take.

First, a little backstory: 141 refers to the code in HK law regarding prostitution. It allows a girl to sell sex for money. However, it is illegal for a business to sell sex, or for girls to get together to sell sex. Therefore, any girl that sells sex has to do it on her own. Well, talk about unintended consequences, but it gave rise to the 141 scene, which are apartment buildings with lots of studio apartments with individual girls selling sex. These apartments are all over HK. There are maybe several dozens of them, maybe more. In these apartments, more than half of the residents are real residents. But on many floors, many or all of the units are occupied by 141 girls. Some buildings may have up to several dozen 141 girls living or working in them.

You can always tell which floor has 141 girls, because there will be pink lights or other decorations on the halls, and there will be ads and pricing on the doors. Sometimes, there are pictures of the girls on the door. The prices are quite good, about 400-800 HKD for around 45 minutes, depending on what you're looking for (500 HKD is about $60, and prices might be a bit higher now).

Yes, there are 141 websites, where girls place ads and addresses and prices, and where you can also see monger reviews. I used to do research on these sites before I headed out, but that's a waste of time in my honest opinion. The reason is because all the positively reviewed girls will be busy with customers, sometimes with a line waiting out her door. So, what you have to do is just knock on doors and see who opens it. You have to make a quick decision on the spot: walk into her room, or say sorry and walk away. The only reasons to do research ahead of time is to make sure which buildings have 141 girls and get the addresses, and also to make sure you know where the building entrance is, because most apartment buildings don't have an obvious entrance.

So, this is why the 141 scene is crazy. You go to an apartment building, and the best thing do is to take an elevator to the top floor. From the top floor, you walk downstairs, and check out each floor. When you get to a floor with 141 girls, you will see the lights and the decorations and the ads, and you will start seeing other mongers. You start looking at the doors. Not only are there prices and maybe pictures, but they will also indicate whether they are busy with a client. If they are available, and you like what you see on the door, then you knock. Then, a girl opens the door. Walk in or walk away. Most of the time, every girl will be busy with a customer, even during the day and on a weekday. So, you go to the next floor. As you can imagine, part of what makes this scene crazy is that as you walk the stairs, you go past many other mongers, all looking for the same thing. It's the same with the floors. On each floor, there are a half dozen guys walking around, looking at doors, and some are even waiting in line (in fact, I waited in line one time, and it was well worth it). Many of these mongers are college students and locals, but there are some foreigners and expats, but mostly college students or locals. When you finally see some doors indicating that they are available, you knock, and most of the time, I will walk away. They may be not my type. So, I usually end up walking all the way from the top floor to the bottom floor, completely striking out. At this point, I might try a different building, but I will usually start all over again and take the elevator to the top floor. I will also think about the number of girls that I walked away from, and try to remember who was the best of the bunch and try to go back to her door (usually, when I return, she is now busy, yes, that's how active this scene is). And, on the second go, I will start knocking on every available door, without having any idea what's behind it. Eventually, maybe after I have done 2 or 3 rounds of going up and down the building, and after having knocked on maybe two dozen doors, I settle on someone. Once inside, the routine is you pick what you want on the menu, then shower together, then do the deed, then leave. Usually done within 45 minutes. Believe it or not, the service is quite good, probably because the girls know they are being reviewed on the 141 websites. I did a lot of 6's and 7's this way, and always paid less than $100 each time. Sometimes, I got lucky with an 8. Almost every single time, I thought the outing was worth it.

The next day, my legs are sore as hell from walking the stairs.

Again, I wouldn't recommend the 141 scene for the sex. I just think it's a crazy surreal experience. Something you should try if you get the chance, just for the experience.

[QUOTE=BrizLad;2494859]Well the vegas girl is possibly more "professional" and he is prepared to pay which is more than we would do for a bitter ex-GF.

Of course, I too like to keep my free ex-GF open but for me I have found that they need to have 'moved-on' and be with a new partner. If they are single and looking then they think my rekindled interest is more than sex.[/QUOTE]Actually Alexa is decidedly non-pro and that's one of the things I like about her. She works in IT and makes pretty good money. I am paying her an allowance of course. But she's not all about that. When I said I could gift her X or maybe Y she said either is fine.

She's got a good head on her shoulders. A little flighty with astrology and such but has a life plan and saves money and just moved to a new apt. I helped her buy her first ETF. LOL.

She's actually not tops in my book for sex (high bar!) but took direction on the BBBJ well and is a real trooper. And DAMN she is fine. High eight face and a banging 9 body. Second finest ass on planet earth. And she literally has no idea. U know how some girls that are good looking (most?) use it like a weapon? Not her. She has no idea how fine she is. She’s just a regular girl next door — who’s pretty much a nine. LOL.

So yeah. Stoked.

[QUOTE=Jackthelad2;2494748]Google "Fuji Building, Hong Kong" or "141" with sex just before it.


These are skyscraper blocks full of small rooms (brothels) all over the place. All legal in HK. To be seen to be believed. Not aware there are located in any other place.[/QUOTE]Great information. Read it as a paradise for mongers in HK.

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2494764]Thanks! I watched a couple of Youtube videos; the rooms look dingy and the "girls" not my type. Looks like a 1970's movie scene depicting an AMP, tbh. I guess if I were a permanent HK resident with no other sex avenue I might consider it as a last minute desperate measure but when I watch this Fuji building I realized how good are the FKKs and how much I miss them. For that matter, even in HK I will look to find sugar babes if I am stuck there for a long time (and assuming I have the confidence the local commies will not throw me in jail on one pretext or other).[/QUOTE]Its like Laufhaus in Germany. FKKs are awesome friend, but in between I try laufhaus for a change.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2494880]The prices are quite good, about 400-800 HKD for around 45 minutes, depending on what you're looking for (500 HKD is about $60, and prices might be a bit higher now).
[/QUOTE]There are also floors for Russians, and Thais. Russians are usually more expensive.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2494880]You go to an apartment building, and the best thing do is to take an elevator to the top floor. From the top floor, you walk downstairs, and check out each floor. When you get to a floor with 141 girls,[/QUOTE]That is why the rent on top floors are much higher.

Also, the room is small, and the shower is very small. Usually there will be a pile of clean towels in the room too. There are video monitors in the room so the girl already know who is outside with door closed. Some South America brothels have a similar setup but it was more like a motel. The main difference being the girls are standing outside the door, and there are bar or stripper pole for show.

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2494867]Sorry, didn't mean to come across as snotty and judgmental. You are right, the corridors did not look inviting. Did not get a good look at the rooms. But anyway, I guess I am spoiled by large FKKs. Not even all the FKKs are that good, with regards to facilities for that matter.[/QUOTE]No worries, I don't get that from your reply. I was trying to be helpful to indicate the difference.

Damn I am getting more down on SA. Maybe I just had a lucky streak. Had such an amazing dinner the other night. Best first date of my life. Just so much in common. She's a stripper and hair dresser so that's promising too. Then pretty much ghosted. Pinged her and she apologized for being busy. But then silence. Pinged again. Ghosted. Damn. Sad about that.

And then last night I was kinda chatting up a hottie in a destination city. Really nice. Went offline. Talked about meeting up someday. Then "I'm hungry and funds are tight. Could you send me some pizza money. " Damn. Said no and was immediately blocked. OMG. Why aren't there girls that just want to fuck for money! (Haha I know what you will say). But I mean like the 18 I had last year. Nice girls. Some extra cash. Great time. Damn frustrated.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2495080]Damn I am getting more down on SA. Maybe I just had a lucky streak. Had such an amazing dinner the other night. Best first date of my life. Just so much in common. She's a stripper and hair dresser so that's promising too. Then pretty much ghosted. Pinged her and she apologized for being busy. But then silence. Pinged again. Ghosted. Damn. Sad about that.

And then last night I was kinda chatting up a hottie in a destination city. Really nice. Went offline. Talked about meeting up someday. Then "I'm hungry and funds are tight. Could you send me some pizza money. " Damn. Said no and was immediately blocked. OMG. Why aren't there girls that just want to fuck for money! (Haha I know what you will say). But I mean like the 18 I had last year. Nice girls. Some extra cash. Great time. Damn frustrated.[/QUOTE]This is one reason why I like to fuck for hours when I get the chance, because I sometimes have almost no idea when I might fuck again.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2495080]Damn I am getting more down on SA. Maybe I just had a lucky streak. Had such an amazing dinner the other night. Best first date of my life. Just so much in common. She's a stripper and hair dresser so that's promising too. Then pretty much ghosted. Pinged her and she apologized for being busy. But then silence. Pinged again. Ghosted. Damn. Sad about that.

And then last night I was kinda chatting up a hottie in a destination city. Really nice. Went offline. Talked about meeting up someday. Then "I'm hungry and funds are tight. Could you send me some pizza money. " Damn. Said no and was immediately blocked. OMG. Why aren't there girls that just want to fuck for money! (Haha I know what you will say). But I mean like the 18 I had last year. Nice girls. Some extra cash. Great time. Damn frustrated.[/QUOTE]Come on Steve. Pick yourself up, dust yourself off and get back on that proverbial horse.

SA seems like a big numbers game. I'm sure COVID ain't helping in filtering the sugar bowl.

[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2495106]Come on Steve. Pick yourself up, dust yourself off and get back on that proverbial horse.

SA seems like a big numbers game. I'm sure COVID ain't helping in filtering the sugar bowl.[/QUOTE]Thanks for the encouragement. Yeah getting a bit jaded I suppose. I still have Layla (she's "been sick" the last few days) and I have the awesome trip with Alexa coming up. I really should stop prospecting or at least stop whining about it! Life is good.

Damn I am getting more down on SA. Maybe I just had a lucky streak. Had such an amazing dinner the other night. Best first date of my life. Just so much in common. She's a stripper and hair dresser so that's promising too. Then pretty much ghosted. Pinged her and she apologized for being busy. But then silence. Pinged again. Ghosted. Damn. Sad about that.

And then last night I was kinda chatting up a hottie in a destination city. Really nice. Went offline. Talked about meeting up someday. Then "I'm hungry and funds are tight. Could you send me some pizza money. " Damn. Said no and was immediately blocked. OMG. Why aren't there girls that just want to fuck for money! (Haha I know what you will say). But I mean like the 18 I had last year. Nice girls. Some extra cash. Great time. Damn frus.

SA is touch in the states. A lot of work, but does work. SA is so much better in other countries, due to many factors. I am about ready to get back on in the states, but I know I will just get pissed off. I will just keep working hard then travel to MTY. SA is working so well for me there.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2495092]This is one reason why I like to fuck for hours when I get the chance, because I sometimes have almost no idea when I might fuck again.[/QUOTE]It's like I found my long lost twin. Exactly one of the reasons for me as well.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2495133].........SA is touch in the states. A lot of work, but does work. SA is so much better in other countries, due to many factors. I am about ready to get back on in the states, but I know I will just get pissed off.[/QUOTE]I presume it's the obvious combination of American women placing too much value on their gynecological charms and the strange contradictions in our sexual mores.

[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2495369]I presume it's the obvious combination of American women placing too much value on their gynecological charms and the strange contradictions in our sexual mores.[/QUOTE]Is it much easier to pick up women at bars and restaurants and other places for a free fuck abroad than in US? If so, that would validate your first sentence that American women put too much on their own pussy / tits.

If it is about different amounts of money then yes, US is a pricier country in some respects and women demand a bit more money. Then it is a supply / demand equation.

FKKs with which I am very familiar with are full of Romanian girls. They are giving away suck and fuck for 50 Euros. That would suggest that Romanian girls do not place too much value on their bodies as compared to other country girls. But I heard from mongers who vacationed in Romania that it is not any easier to pick up girls for free fucks in Romania as compared to Germany or in other EU nations.

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2495440]Is it much easier to pick up women at bars and restaurants and other places for a free fuck abroad than in US? If so, that would validate your first sentence that American women put too much on their own pussy / tits.

If it is about different amounts of money then yes, US is a pricier country in some respects and women demand a bit more money. Then it is a supply / demand equation.

FKKs with which I am very familiar with are full of Romanian girls. They are giving away suck and fuck for 50 Euros. That would suggest that Romanian girls do not place too much value on their bodies as compared to other country girls. But I heard from mongers who vacationed in Romania that it is not any easier to pick up girls for free fucks in Romania as compared to Germany or in other EU nations.[/QUOTE]As was mentioned earlier about SA in different cities, you can't generalize too much based on a few personal experiences. Casual sex with civilians around the globe is even more difficult to make generalizations. Let's just say it's complicated.

As far as American sexual mores, I think a young American woman might be more reticent to be in a relationship with a man thirty years older. This I feel is not as big an issue in regions like South America and Asia. This might still be true for Eastern Europe as well.

Eastern European women were very open to Americans in the early 1990's. They have become jaded from being overexposed to Western European men. I see this jading in Latin America's major cities. It seems that I had more success meeting civilians in the secondary cities where foreigners were less common.

Against all odds I might have found a SB in the Netherlands.

Cute face but not a killer body. Has foreign roots.

She's on a sexual rediscovery journey. So the money is an extra for her.

Super relax and very down to earth. Has many talents and ambitions but hasn't capitalised on them.

We agreed on a PPM and I hope to built this into a long lasting agreement.

[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2495657]As was mentioned earlier about SA in different cities, you can't generalize too much based on a few personal experiences. Casual sex with civilians around the globe is even more difficult to make generalizations. Let's just say it's complicated.

As far as American sexual mores, I think a young American woman might be more reticent to be in a relationship with a man thirty years older. This I feel is not as big an issue in regions like South America and Asia. This might still be true for Eastern Europe as well.

Eastern European women were very open to Americans in the early 1990's. They have become jaded from being overexposed to Western European men. I see this jading in Latin America's major cities. It seems that I had more success meeting civilians in the secondary cities where foreigners were less common.[/QUOTE]I very much agree.

I angered a poster in the Barcelona forum long ago by explaining some Birds and Bees to him.

He had some luck in shopping malls in Latin America (as did some guys in the Philippines) by approaching women, going to dinner and shopping, and getting sex in return.

There was a cottage industry here on ISG of guys who did that, with their game being how little, if any, they could give in cash at the end of the little fling.

I explained that this would not work in Barcelona. The Simpleton believed that a shopping mall in a non-English speaking country equaled sex. It does not, especially in a more wealthy country where there is no interest among the women to marry a foreigner and move to his country. It requires more components to the equation. It requires a poor woman with a significant amount of free time who is willing to take a small chance of making a large profit. Kind of the way the Underclass is drawn to The Lottery. It also helps when those women are indoctrinated into organized religion at a young age, especially that Pope fellow, who would tell them that commercial sex is wrong. That lady is better off in her culture of being seen on a date with someone instead of doing an obvious hook-up. Those principles do not exist in Barcelona, and over time are probably less likely to exist today in Latin American Capitals. And fortunately Seeking Arrangement has made the market much more efficient all over the world in terms of placing the ladies who are interested in a compensated arrangement into an electronic marketplace of like-minded buyers and sellers, leaving the girl alone who only wants to sell perfume, not pussy, at the shopping mall. Unfortunately for her, there are fewer physical perfume buyers at the mall, thanks to Amazon. But of course Seeking Arrangement destroys the market for the guy getting a lot of sex through purchasing goods and food for a lady with the vague promise of future cash that is never delivered. Notice that those guys rarely post any more on ISG, and my tendency to post about the use of the electronic market has earned me a Hater who tells everyone to return to The Streets.

I told the guy that I made angry that he was like the typical small child who calls everything with four legs a Dog, until someone explains to him that another name exists for the many four-legged creatures such as Horse, Cow, Elephant, etc. He said I was condescending, but hopefully he took my advice and didn't try the Shopping Mall technique there. Women in Barcelona will sell tail, but not in that manner. Of course the same can be said for the ladies on Seeking Arrangement who say they are not prostitutes and the customers who say they aren't Johns. Yes folks, you are. It is just a different marketplace with different rules and modes of exchange.

[QUOTE=Oneminuteboy;2496070]Against all odds I might have found a SB in the Netherlands.

Cute face but not a killer body. Has foreign roots.

She's on a sexual rediscovery journey. So the money is an extra for her.

Super relax and very down to earth. Has many talents and ambitions but hasn't capitalised on them.

We agreed on a PPM and I hope to built this into a long lasting agreement.[/QUOTE]Congrats! Let us know how it goes. Also, let us know how it goes if you convert her to a monthly allowance instead of PPM. I have done both PPM and monthly allowance, and I have found that both has its plusses and minuses. Maybe there is no obvious best practice, and it just depends on the girl and situation.

[QUOTE=Oneminuteboy;2496070]Against all odds I might have found a SB in the Netherlands.

Cute face but not a killer body. Has foreign roots.

She's on a sexual rediscovery journey. So the money is an extra for her.

Super relax and very down to earth. Has many talents and ambitions but hasn't capitalised on them.

We agreed on a PPM and I hope to built this into a long lasting agreement.[/QUOTE]This does sound good. But where in the journey are you? Just texted? Met up but no sex? Met up and done the deed?

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2496109]Congrats! Let us know how it goes. Also, let us know how it goes if you convert her to a monthly allowance instead of PPM. I have done both PPM and monthly allowance, and I have found that both has its plusses and minuses. Maybe there is no obvious best practice, and it just depends on the girl and situation.[/QUOTE]Already had the 1st meet. It is why I was surprised to find somebody like her in the Netherlands. Still need to have a few more dates to see what works best for the both of us.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2496293]This does sound good. But where in the journey are you? Just texted? Met up but no sex? Met up and done the deed?[/QUOTE]Already met and done the deed. See seems to be a good match for what I need. Had I met her through other means she would be a decent relationship option.

[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2495657]As was mentioned earlier about SA in different cities, you can't generalize too much based on a few personal experiences. Casual sex with civilians around the globe is even more difficult to make generalizations. Let's just say it's complicated..[/QUOTE]Yes, I agree. I think it is not a wise thing to generalize. That was my point. In your prior post, I think you said "American women placing too much value on their gynecological charms".

This is a large country, almost as big as the entire Western Europe combined. To combined all of them with one sentence is not appropriate. That was the point I was trying to make in a rhetorical way.

I don't think Americans are too easy or too difficult, European women are too easy or too difficult, not sure that women in some countries place too much value or little value on their bodies speaking in a collective manner. From the beginning of my foray into this forum, I have been saying precisely that.

[QUOTE=Oneminuteboy;2496335]Already had the 1st meet. It is why I was surprised to find somebody like her in the Netherlands. Still need to have a few more dates to see what works best for the both of us.

Already met and done the deed. See seems to be a good match for what I need. Had I met her through other means she would be a decent relationship option.[/QUOTE]That is awesome. I hope it lasts a while. Just don't forget the first rule of SB — it can Be awesome but then be gone without any warning — so always keep trolling. There's always a next one.

I don't know why, but I just remembered a funny story that happened to me from a couple of months ago. (This is off-topic, BTW.)

I was hard up for a date, and the mongering scene had still not returned to full speed. So, I invited an ex to Shanghai for three days. I told her to book a hotel for three nights and she did. Before her arrival, she told me how clever she was, because she discovered that a room was only $80 per night when she booked them separately, rather than booking a room for three consecutive nights, which came out to $90 per night. So, she said she was saving me $10 per night. I didn't think anything of it. On the first day we meet, I am balls deep in her, when there's a call to the room. The front desk says that she is late for her check-out. Yep, she had to check out at noon, and then recheck back into the hotel. Since I was an unregistered guest, I just took off. She went downstairs to check-out and then check-in. I sent her a text to let me know when I could return to the room. A few minutes later, she says she has to change rooms. I texted back and told her to yell at the front desk people to let her stay in the same room. She did. She was able to keep the room. But when she returned to the room, housekeeping was already in there changing everything. So, she had to wait for them. By the time I am back in the room, it's almost 2 pm. The next day, I just decided to meet her at 2 pm because I didn't want to put up with whatever hassle she had to go through on the next day. This kind of annoyed me, because I wanted to spend all day with her in the room, but oh well. Anyway, sure enough, when I arrived, she told me that she was in a different room. LOL.

I wanted to tell her that she's not clever enough out-think a hotel, but I then decided why bother. At the time, I was pretty furious. But now I just think it was funny.

I recall reading someone's posts in the past about chatting with some Chinese girls who claim they are successful at F / X trading. I was looking for those posts but I couldn't find them.

I received a Hello message from a Hong Kong girl about a month ago. We have been chatting on Whatsapp almost daily since then but when I wanted to videochat she refused. She seems to be financially independent and according to her, she is just looking for a genuine relationship. She never mentioned any allowance. Different from other foreign girls, she never asked me for $ for an "online relationship" arrangement.

Now she wants to teach me how to do F / X trading. I'm not sure what she is after but I may just go along to see what will happen.

[QUOTE=DiverOyster;2496474]I recall reading someone's posts in the past about chatting with some Chinese girls who claim they are successful at F / X trading. I was looking for those posts but I couldn't find them.

I received a Hello message from a Hong Kong girl about a month ago. We have been chatting on Whatsapp almost daily since then but when I wanted to videochat she refused. She seems to be financially independent and according to her, she is just looking for a genuine relationship. She never mentioned any allowance. Different from other foreign girls, she never asked me for $ for an "online relationship" arrangement.

Now she wants to teach me how to do F / X trading. I'm not sure what she is after but I may just go along to see what will happen.[/QUOTE]She wants to teach you! Sounds a bit weird to me. My first thought is that most likely a scammer. On the other hand, "she" has been chatting with you for a month and that is a large investment of "her" time. Internet scammers do not spend that much time on a single target, as they have no idea if you have any real money, or you might just block her at any instant, or what have you.

All in all, I am still inclined to the view that this smells like a fish. You did not join the site to learn FX, you were seeking poontang.

Finally, until you meet the person in flesh, don't assume she is what she said she is. Well, she may turn out to be a scammer even after you meet in person but at least you know then that there is a woman behind the online persona. As of now, you may be just speaking to a bot.

[QUOTE=DiverOyster;2496474]I recall reading someone's posts in the past about chatting with some Chinese girls who claim they are successful at F / X trading. I was looking for those posts but I couldn't find them.

I received a Hello message from a Hong Kong girl about a month ago. We have been chatting on Whatsapp almost daily since then but when I wanted to videochat she refused. She seems to be financially independent and according to her, she is just looking for a genuine relationship. She never mentioned any allowance. Different from other foreign girls, she never asked me for $ for an "online relationship" arrangement.

Now she wants to teach me how to do F / X trading. I'm not sure what she is after but I may just go along to see what will happen.[/QUOTE]I experienced the same type of message from a Hong Kong girl in April and we chatted for a few months. She wanted me to invest in currency trading and was willing to teach me. She said that she had an uncle in the banking business and she will get tips from her uncle as to what to buy and when to purchase. We chatted on WhatsApp, she originally had a Hong Kong number but then strangely it changed to a Malaysian number. That throughout warning bells to me. She would also not allow any FaceTime.

I finally told her that I was not interested in investing and making money, I had enough money and now it was time to spend. She abruptly ended our conversations! I contacted her just the other day after six weeks of silence, the bottom line was she wanted me to invest.

I had another experience with a Hong Kong girl who contacted me. Basically it was the same M O, only she was in the gold trading. When I told her I was not interested in investing she also abruptly ended the conversation.

Both women were friendly and started with a very soft sell job, stating how rich they were and wanted to travel with me through China.

DiverOyster.

I recall reading someone's posts in the past about chatting with some Chinese girls who claim they are successful at F / X trading. I was looking for those posts but I couldn't find them.

I received a Hello message from a Hong Kong girl about a month ago. We have been chatting on Whatsapp almost daily since then but when I wanted to videochat she refused. She seems to be financially independent and according to her, she is just looking for a genuine relationship. She never mentioned any allowance. Different from other foreign girls, she never asked me for $ for an "online relationship" arrangement.

Now she wants to teach me how to do F / X trading. I'm not sure what she is after but I may just go along to see what will happen.

[QUOTE=Travel902;2496643] I received a Hello message from a Hong Kong girl about a month ago. We have been chatting on Whatsapp almost daily since then but when I wanted to videochat she refused. She seems to be financially independent and according to her, she is just looking for a genuine relationship. She never mentioned any allowance. Different from other foreign girls, she never asked me for $ for an "online relationship" arrangement.

Now she wants to teach me how to do F / X trading. I'm not sure what she is after but I may just go along to see what will happen.[/QUOTE]She will take some time to gain your trust.

She will declare that she is financially independent, and quite successful actually!

She will probably never video-call you.

But:

-At one point, she (or he) will try to have you invest in f / x, diamonds or any investments with great, great return.

-This is 100% SCAM, just a new variation, out for about 2 or 3 years.

Here is my Tuesday in MTY, all but one of the girls I met is from SA. I set up a Threesome. One of the girls is from SA and the other is from one of the agency's I us in MTY. I take both girls separately through the parking garage entrance so security does not say anything. Works perfectly. One hour of fun, this was at 10 am. I meet my model girlfriend at 1:15, we have coffee and then have a great session. She was also over Wednesday night and had anal / toy show. At 4 pm I check out of my Condo and check into a hotel. I do not want to push my luck at the condo I stay at, I try to be somewhat respectable. I meet with a super hot lawyer, again a great session. SA is working so well in MTY. Love it.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2497115]Here is my Tuesday in MTY, all but one of the girls I met is from SA. I set up a Threesome. One of the girls is from SA and the other is from one of the agency's I us in MTY. I take both girls separately through the parking garage entrance so security does not say anything. Works perfectly. One hour of fun, this was at 10 am. I meet my model girlfriend at 1:15, we have coffee and then have a great session. She was also over Wednesday night and had anal / toy show. At 4 pm I check out of my Condo and check into a hotel. I do not want to push my luck at the condo I stay at, I try to be somewhat respectable. I meet with a super hot lawyer, again a great session. SA is working so well in MTY. Love it.[/QUOTE]You had 4 girls in one day?! That's awesome. I was trying to schedule 4 for just this entire week, but I could not pull it off. One gal got sick. Another is a flake who only shows up about 15% of the time to begin with. And another is a dumdum that messed up our plans. Luckily, I met my main arrangement on Monday, and we spent about four hours under the sheets, one hour at lunch, and one hour just goofing around outside. This gal is not a big fan of screwing for hours, but her monthly allowance was given to her on Monday, and that greased the wheels, if you know what I mean.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2497150]You had 4 girls in one day?! That's awesome. I was trying to schedule 4 for just this entire week, but I could not pull it off. One gal got sick. Another is a flake who only shows up about 15% of the time to begin with. And another is a dumdum that messed up our plans. Luckily, I met my main arrangement on Monday, and we spent about four hours under the sheets, one hour at lunch, and one hour just goofing around outside. This gal is not a big fan of screwing for hours, but her monthly allowance was given to her on Monday, and that greased the wheels, if you know what I mean.[/QUOTE]Yes, it was a good day. I also got some work done. I thought you might be more impressed getting the girls past security.

Has anyone had a success with SA girls in Buenos Aires? What is the typical rate for an overnight (or 6-8 hrs) date? It looks like argentine peso is at all time lows vs USD right now, so you can get a great bang for your buck once the country opens up. Planning a trip soon. I'm new to SA, only used it once in CDMX last summer, it wasn't easy in the beginning, but once I learned how it works I had plenty of great dates.

I could not find any relevant info in BA thread, there is pretty much zero activity there (due to COVID?

So as I said I like to keep in touch with girls afterward and hope to rekindle when opportunity strikes. Well opportunity struck hard when I pinged Alexa who I met on SA a year ago and enjoyed in person twice in December. I said "want to meet me in xxxx" (a four hour flight for her) and she said sure! With in two hours I sent her money for a ticket and she had booked it.

After I arrived at the destination her flight was later that night. I know her well enough to know she would never scam me, but she could get cold feet of course. Nope. She arrived looking hot in some tight black jeans. We had great late night sex while killing a bottle of wine. Then just an amazing weekend together. Brunch, sushi, tons of wine, pedicab rides, romantic dinners out, moonlight strolls and AMAZING sex — including a top three BBBJ and two hours of nonstop sex on the balcony. LOL.

She's a legit petite 9 with an amazing ass, perky 34 BS, and the most beautiful pussy on planet earth. I really can't believe I got to enjoy her for a full long weekend. These are the times where:

1. Seeking rules.

2. Keeping in touch rewards you.

3. There are REAL non pro girls out there who you can develop a lovely relationship with. Knowing it's NSA and $$ to bridge the age gap but feels totally real.

Couldn't be happier right now.

[QUOTE=JackOfNone;2498925]So finally was able to do the SA week in Lisbon and it was a pretty successful one after all the very helpful pointers from the experienced guys in this thread. FR posted in the Lisbon thread if anyone is interested.[/QUOTE]Please post here also. We'the love to have all SA content in one place plus we all need a good FR these days. I'll post a more detailed Alexa FR soon.

Fantastic report, JackOfNone!

Well done!

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2499498]Fantastic report, JackOfNone!

Well done![/QUOTE]At JackOfNone, excellent report, and I agree "well done!" Also, a bonus was that I got to learn a little bit about the Lisbon scene, so that was cool. Thanks.

A few posters have talked about the rekindle and keeping in touch with past SBs. It seems that once the girl has accepted us once for se, that kind of still counts when the girl has moved into a new relationship also.

I'm 55+ and about a year ago I had a wonderful with a genuine non-pro SB, 32 ish, professional job, in a happy sex-less domestic situation.

So a day in bed with me was a great treat for her. We got on really well. We did exchange a few messages through the year since then, birthday, Christmas wishes. In October I suggested we should meet again to which she initially agreed, then the following day she said "the temptation's too great, I'm better not to risk anything anymore and for our better good I'm going to block you." And that was that. What a waste of an amazing clean pussy and lovely enhanced breast.

Meanwhile, just have to move on to the other 100 options in my area.

I flew in Friday afternoon and then Alexa flew in late Friday. I was a little worried she got cold feet but she came bopping off the plane in her tight black jeans and looked awesome. Alexa actually needs no makeup. But she has a bit of eyeshadow and lipstick and she looks great.

We head back to the hotel which is luxe and has an epic ocean view and a large glass balcony. Frankly this should be part of SB also I want her to feel special throughout our weekend together.

I was a bit worried that she might claim "too tired" it's 11 PM now but nope we break out a bottle of nice Rose I had chilling in the fridge and we fall right into it. Just magical to kiss her again and we are very comfortable in bed together.

We kill the entire bottle and I can't remember all the details. I remember her BJ is really good. And we get into some AMAZING 69. Her pussy is absolutely incredible and tasty. And the whole 69 thing just totally works for me. I can see her picture perfect ass in my peripheral vision and it makes me hard as a brick.

When we decide to suit up, Most girls like to start cowgirl. She says nope let's go to mish our joint favorite. We go at it this way a long time I love kissing her while pounding away. Nothing beats mish kissing. We do some RCG and doggie but eventually return to BJ where I bless her with a hot load which she takes CIM and trots off to spit.

We then snuggle and fall asleep. Guys, this is SA at its finest. Your best girl in the crook of your arm falling asleep on your shoulder. This just blows hourly escorting away in my book.

Saturday morning we wake up late and go to brunch. Beachside dining with more sushi than we can eat (again treat her like a princess). It's so fun to be a couple.

I have some commitments that day so I return about 5 PM and am headed for the most epic date of my life. When I return she was napping. I nap cuddled a bit then tried to get her interested in sex but she was just kinda deflecting. (Remember she's not a hooker!

Earlier she told me she brought her vibrator. So in a sudden flash of brilliance I say "when we going to break out that vibrator" and she says in a few minutes! So more wine is poured and we break that monster out.

It's one of those big ones and she just uses it on her clit. I think I forgot to mention she has the most beautiful pussy on earth. Like a literal ten. We were talking about it and she thinks one of the lips is a little too big. Haha. It's not. OMG it is gorgeous and feels so good inside too. Fingering her is epic. The most beautiful pussy feel inside ever.

We started with me fingering her while she worked herself. She was really good about edging. Because she said if she came it would be all over and so she would keep backing it off when she reached the edge. So we could both have fun.

I maneuvered around to get my dick in her mouth and she really liked that. So FIV and vibrator and BJ. It was great for both of us. She was giving a really good BJ. You could tell having the dick in her mouth was heightening the experience. She actually said "don't cum too soon" because she wanted that hard dick. Really awesome.

We had noticed yesterday that the balcony across from ours about 15 feet outside our window a lady had come out earlier that day. So we had been doing all this with the curtains wide open just for fun! So we switched it up to doggie so she could vibrate her clit while I fuck her from behind. I said here let's face the window to give them a show and she was game!

Eventually we switch back to her vibing herself (on her back - she needs to focus actually) so she can get off. Previously I'the kneeled at the side of her head and she took me in her mouth turning her head sideways. This time I straddled her and was able to slowly mouth fuck her while she built her O. I could tell she was getting close because her moans (dick in mouth) were increasing and her BJ was getting a little toothy as she was lost to the world. I didn't mind. I just let her build and wow. She had a shattering one. She had to pull my dick out of her mouth to cry out. It was epic.

A little rest and I started getting a bit softer so she had to work me back up. Her BJ is quite good and will get better later that night. Takes a nice load of CIM and trots off to spit. But this is far from the end of the night.

Guess it's about 7 now. And we make dinner reservatONS for 8 pm. About a five min walk. We have a lovely dinner with Japanese / Korean fusion tapas and Pinot Grigio. She is wearing an LBD and heels and a sparkle mask she looks hot as fuck.

She's always self deprecating but not in a false way. She is not confident about her looks, which is hilarious because she is drop dead gorgeous. OMG. I literally can only find one thing to change and that would be take 1 lb off her waist. That's it. Perfect ass. Second best worldwide in my entire girl-history. That is lofty. Perfect pussy. A ten no lie. Lovely 34 B tits. Face to die for. Long naturally curly ringlets. Fuck I am a lucky man.

At dinner we have a really nice time. This is not a transaction. There is true affection exchanged both ways. This is the real deal.

Our first night I had struck up a conversation with a Russian pedicab driver and he gave me his card. So I rang him up from dinner and he met us at the bottom of the stairs from the restaurant. We hop in and ask him to take us to a liquor store but take his time. So we moonlight ride (full moon on the water) along the beach about a mile to the store. We pick up a bottle of Pinot Grigio and some small filtered cigars.

He's got the Led Zeppelin cranked up. As he drives us back towards the hotel we are swigging from the bottle and smoking our cigs. You may recall I did this in London with Thifany and then the Columbianas. It is so fucking fun!

So we have him drop us at the beach across from the hotel. There is a lifeguard stand there so we take off our shoes and put them on there and go walking down the beach. Still swigging and smoking. Back to the lifeguard stand we climb up and sit side by side killing the bottle in the moonlight. Every few minutes I take her chin and pull her towards me and kissing for a minute or so. Very sexy and romantic. She likes to suck on my lips and tongue which is unique but I rather like it.

Eventually we kill the bottle and decide to head back to the room for what will turn into a very comfortable sexual marathon (2 hrs of nonstop sex). We open a bottle of Moscato from the fridge and pour a couple glasses. We are both totally buzzing so when I suggest we go out and fuck on the balcony she is totally down.

We start out slow in our undies. Her on my lap drinking and smoking on the patio chair. At some point we are standing up and I say "I'm getting rid of these" indicating my undies. And says me too! So we are now totally naked on the glass balcony. Me and my girl.

I sit down and she starts giving me an absolutely fabulous blowjob. I could go forever I'm so drunk. About 5 minutes in she asks what makes a good blowjob and I tell her variety and show her how to turn her head sideways and slide her lips up and down the underside. That mixed with BLS and full on sucking in and out and it's heavenly.

At some point this turns into a fun conversation while getting blown. She is asking me about when I lost my virginity or my craziest sexual experience. It really makes it go on forever as we chat amiably while she blows the fuck out of me.

After maybe a half hour of this (no joke) we swap it around and I work on her. She slouches way down in the chair so her pussy is near the edge and pulls her legs up spread wide and I dive in. In addition to the DATY the fingering is epic. Her pussy feels as beautiful as it looks.

Somehow we end up back in the room for the finish. It's all a bit foggy. I remember fucking her good in the modified mish where she has a pillow under her but and you have one of her legs up in the air between yours. We did legs on shoulders. And who knows what else. Went to regular mish to kiss passionately and pound out a shattering second cumming after maybe ten minutes of kiss fucking mish. Wow.

I remember absolutely zero after that. Must have crashed like a big dog. One of the best or maybe the best date of my life.

Rinse and repeat Sunday well we didn't go two rounds. We were both bushed and napped till about 7 PM (again I was tied up during the day). We decided for a simple dinner at the hotel but again the wine and sushi plus steak was epic. We really get along well.

Back in the room it's Moscato again and more epic sex. We have become so comfortable making each other happy. The 69 is epic again I can still almost taste how beautiful it tastes when I push my tongue inside. She again asks for BJ pointers and I really get explicit on exactly what to do and how to mix it up. She takes to it like a fish to water. And wow. Literally one of the top BJs I've ever had. I remember an epic 10 minutes on the edge with Noleta in London. This is very very close to that. I am so close for so long and wow the final explosion is life changing. Of course we cuddle it out and sleep like logs.

OMG could I have had more fun (there was plenty more non-sex fun)? Nope. It was amazing. Moral of the story? SA rules. Having a real girlfriend in all ways for the weekend just can't be replicated. It's the best!

I highly recommend repeating like this and flying a girl. I've only done it twice (Thifany and Alex) but both times sooo worth it.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2499816]I flew in Friday afternoon and then Alexa flew in late Friday. I was a little worried she got cold feet but she came bopping off the plane in her tight black jeans and looked awesome. Alexa actually needs no makeup. But she has a bit of eyeshadow and lipstick and she looks great.


OMG could I have had more fun (there was plenty more non-sex fun)? Nope. It was amazing. Moral of the story? SA rules. Having a real girlfriend in all ways for the weekend just can't be replicated. It's the best!

I highly recommend repeating like this and flying a girl. I've only done it twice (Thifany and Alex) but both times sooo worth it.[/QUOTE]Di you give her anything besides paying for her ticket and all the expenses?

Steve: Excellent FR! But have I have a question if you don't mind.

Let's say that you normally give $225 for a PPM that lasts a few hours. If it's an overnight, then maybe you add a little extra, like maybe bump the amount up to $300. But if you ask them to fly somewhere to meet you, then what do you give them besides reimbursing their travel cost? For example, I assume Alexa was a PPM. But when you asked her to fly somewhere to meet you, what kind of math did you do to calculate her gift? For me, I add 50% to the overnight rate, to compensate for her travel time and for her daytimes. So, if I ask someone to fly to meet me, and it's for 3 days and 2 nights, then I count this as 2. 5 overnights (the average of 3 days and 2 nights) and so if I usually give $300 for overnight, then I will pay her $300 x 1. 5 x 2. 5, which equals $1,125.

BTW, if I am wrong that Alexa was a PPM or that you had to give her a gift to meet you, then I apologize for making these presumptions.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2499861]Steve: Excellent FR! But have I have a question if you don't mind.

Let's say that you normally give $225 for a PPM that lasts a few hours. If it's an overnight, then maybe you add a little extra, like maybe bump the amount up to $300. But if you ask them to fly somewhere to meet you, then what do you give them besides reimbursing their travel cost? For example, I assume Alexa was a PPM. But when you asked her to fly somewhere to meet you, what kind of math did you do to calculate her gift? For me, I add 50% to the overnight rate, to compensate for her travel time and for her daytimes. So, if I ask someone to fly to meet me, and it's for 3 days and 2 nights, then I count this as 2. 5 overnights (the average of 3 days and 2 nights) and so if I usually give $300 for overnight, then I will pay her $300 x 1. 5 x 2. 5, which equals $1,125.

BTW, if I am wrong that Alexa was a PPM or that you had to give her a gift to meet you, then I apologize for making these presumptions.[/QUOTE]So again, I haven't done this a lot but generally agree with your math with one exception. During my regular travels I don't generally pay more for overnight because I don't ever negotiate that ahead of time. If she decides to stay it's her choice. I might slip in a bit extra but that's just a spur of the moment call.

One of the main considerations is the surrounding market. Because if I have great alternatives then it's hard to push the PPM much beyond that, since I have the airfare also. I think she clearly wanted to be there. Because we agreed a straight up 2 xPPM for 2 days and three nights. (I gave her $200 extra in the end cuz we had such a magical time). You got to remember if you are doing a "destination" fly that is super exciting to a lot of these girls who would never be able to do that on their own. She was THRILLED to swim in the ocean for the first time. And Thifany was like a school girl in London for the first time. It's win win.

Thanks Steve and Jack for your insights. Both of you guys have great points.

I have struggled with the math for many years now. I have flown girls into Shanghai from their hometowns, I have taken SBs or GFs or pros with me on business trips to Beijing, I have flown SA gals from their USA hometown to my USA city (sometimes it was SF, but sometimes it was to other places where I was temporarily stationed), and I have taken SA gals with me on business trips or fun trips within the states. Every single time, I struggled with the amount to give them. I would be curious if others have opinions on the appropriate amount. The reason why I struggle so much is because I am already paying for their travel, so the cost is already high to begin with, but at the same time, I want them to be enthusiastic about the trip too. Of course, I could just straight up ask what they want, but with SBs, we try to make it seem like it's less transactional, and besides, I have asked them in the past and they have always said "give me whatever you want. " Again, I pay their travel expenses and other shared expenses, and for their "gift" I pay their usual PPM rate times 1. 5 (to compensate for their travel time and daytimes) times the average of trip's days and nights (so, if it's a 3 day trip with 2 overnight stays, then this is 2. 5). TIA.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2500156]Thanks Steve and Jack for your insights. Both of you guys have great points.

I have struggled with the math for many years now. I have flown girls into Shanghai from their hometowns, I have taken SBs or GFs or pros with me on business trips to Beijing, I have flown SA gals from their USA hometown to my USA city (sometimes it was SF, but sometimes it was to other places where I was temporarily stationed), and I have taken SA gals with me on business trips or fun trips within the states. Every single time, I struggled with the amount to give them. I would be curious if others have opinions on the appropriate amount. The reason why I struggle so much is because I am already paying for their travel, so the cost is already high to begin with, but at the same time, I want them to be enthusiastic about the trip too. Of course, I could just straight up ask what they want, but with SBs, we try to make it seem like it's less transactional, and besides, I have asked them in the past and they have always said "give me whatever you want. " Again, I pay their travel expenses and other shared expenses, and for their "gift" I pay their usual PPM rate times 1. 5 (to compensate for their travel time and daytimes) times the average of trip's days and nights (so, if it's a 3 day trip with 2 overnight stays, then this is 2. 5). TIA.[/QUOTE]Sounds like you might be paying more than needed since it sounds like they want to be there regardless and they do in their minds think "oh he has to cover airfare and hotel I can't charge too much.” But really don't sweat it. With SA girls I often think of that extra hundred and who will it benefit more and the answer is always easy. "Overpaying" really isn't a thing if you care about her.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2500160] "Overpaying" really isn't a thing if you care about her.[/QUOTE]Man, this really hits home with me!! Yes, you're right!! Almost all of these gals are poor, and some are dirt poor, and yet most of them have been absolute sweethearts to me. So, I shouldn't care if I feel like I'm overpaying a little. Thanks, man.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2500172]Man, this really hits home with me!! Yes, you're right!! Almost all of these gals are poor, and some are dirt poor, and yet most of them have been absolute sweethearts to me. So, I shouldn't care if I feel like I'm overpaying a little. Thanks, man.[/QUOTE]I feel the same, I over pay a little in MTY, but what I can back in return, blows my mind, so good. You read some of the other forums and what some of these guys, put up with, I will gladly over pay a little. I am living like a Rock Star, sure there is some be. S. , but very little compared to my days in Kiev or MDE.

Issue with conversion between per meet and per month allowance is the frequency of payments. Say, you are used to giving allowance of $300/ meet. If you agree to $1200 a month with the implicit understanding that you will meet once a week, do you give the $1,200 at the start of the month, in the middle, or at the end? If you give it at the first meet, what will you do if she takes it and vanishes? On the other hand, if it is at the end or even in the middle she is giving a free one (s) and you might not come back.

If you have been seeing each other for a while, then it is easier to trust each other and convert per meet to per month because you have some trust built up.

The formula itself is generally per meet * expected number of meets = per month (with some discount likely because you are guaranteeing that many meets a month).

But the key hurdle is always the trust issue. I recommend not to blindly enter into a monthly arrangement and hand over the entire monthly sum at the first meet. That would be foolhardy.

If you are talking about a vacation together, then it is different. If you bought the plane fare for her, she would not run away because you could cancel her ticket. On the other hand, girls would be reluctant to travel with you unless they know you and trust you because they know they are in your power -- typically they don't have too much money and if you get upset with them and kick them out, they would be stranded homeless in a foreign country with no money to get back home. That may or may not happen but any girl would be foolish to not consider such a downside scenario. There are quite a few assholes out there and they will take advantage of a girl in such a situation. If I was advising a girl as a friend, I would tell her to be very careful to ever accompany any guy on a foreign trip unless she knew him very well and has a tremendous amount of trust. From a girl's pov, in my view it is simply not worth it to place herself in the power of an unknown guy.

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2500649]Issue with conversion between per meet and per month allowance is the frequency of payments. Say, you are used to giving allowance of $300/ meet. If you agree to $1200 a month with the implicit understanding that you will meet once a week, do you give the $1,200 at the start of the month, in the middle, or at the end? If you give it at the first meet, what will you do if she takes it and vanishes? On the other hand, if it is at the end or even in the middle she is giving a free one (s) and you might not come back.

[/QUOTE]I recently converted a monthly allowance to PPM. She was someone that I had an affair with last year, and she never expected or asked for a penny. She is 45 years old, married, but has a pretty good body, and she loves to DFK and we are quite compatible in the sack. I didn't see her for about 8 months due to the lockdown, and her deciding to stay in her hometown. However, she and her husband and their adult daughter recently moved to a city neighboring Shanghai. This meant that we could rekindle our affair. However, when I met her again for the first time, a couple of months ago, she was desperate for money, because she and her husband did not work during the lockdown, and she needed to pay three months rent, so I gave her a lump sum to cover the entire three months rent, and I told her that I would give her another lump sum in three months. But I told her that I wanted to see her once per week and she agreed, mostly because I think she genuinely likes me too. Since then, we've only met three times. She kept coming up with excuses to not meet. I did not mind too much. I like her and I was happy to help her. And then, a few days ago, she asked me if I could give her another lump sum to pay off a debt, and she said that I didn't have to pay her rent next time. I thought about it for a couple of days, and then I told her that I don't have large sums of cash laying around, but that I could give her some money each time we meet. As soon as I said this, she said, "can we meet tomorrow?" So, PPM definitely works well sometimes, despite the fact that it feels transactional.

That said, my other SB is still a monthly allowance. So far, it's going well. I see her once or twice per week. And around twice per month, she spends all day with me. She actually said something to me that really struck me. She said, "I need two things from you: love and money. The only way I can get those things is to make you happy. " At first, I wasn't sure how to take this. But then I decided that this makes her a good SB. She also texts me everyday. She's hilarious. But yeah, she too has canceled dates too. That happens with monthly allowances.

One of the best parts of both SBs is that we bareback. So, this is another reason why I cut them some slack in terms of our arrangements.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2501118]I recently converted a monthly allowance to PPM. She was someone that I had an affair with last year, and she never expected or asked for a penny. She is 45 years old, married, but has a pretty good body, and she loves to DFK and we are quite compatible in the sack. I didn't see her for about 8 months due to the lockdown, and her deciding to stay in her hometown. However, she and her husband and their adult daughter recently moved to a city neighboring Shanghai. This meant that we could rekindle our affair. However, when I met her again for the first time, a couple of months ago, she was desperate for money, because she and her husband did not work during the lockdown, and she needed to pay three months rent, so I gave her a lump sum to cover the entire three months rent, and I told her that I would give her another lump sum in three months. But I told her that I wanted to see her once per week and she agreed, mostly because I think she genuinely likes me too. Since then, we've only met three times. She kept coming up with excuses to not meet. I did not mind too much. I like her and I was happy to help her. And then, a few days ago, she asked me if I could give her another lump sum to pay off a debt, and she said that I didn't have to pay her rent next time. I thought about it for a couple of days, and then I told her that I don't have large sums of cash laying around, but that I could give her some money each time we meet. As soon as I said this, she said, "can we meet tomorrow?" So, PPM definitely works well sometimes, despite the fact that it feels transactional..[/QUOTE]Thanks for sharing MW. How did the monthly allowance arrangement begin? Did you start it off with monthly or was it a ppm that converted to a monthly? I can see building trust with a bunch of ppms, like each other and have trust, then convert to monthly.

I prefer ppms because monthlys imply a long term obligation. If you have a sugarbabe on a monthly for a couple of months and then drop her, it has the feeling of a breakup with a GF. Also, if you agree to see other once or twice a week in the monthly arrangement but have to travel, have some other issues that make you busy then you are still on the hook for the money part but you end up paying with not much in return.

That said, if you find a gem and you like each other, monthly can be very nice. I had some super cutie young sugar babes who I did see several times and if I had an opportunity to have any of them on a monthly for a year or two, I would have jumped at it because they were absolutely awesome. But girls like that were never in a rush for monthly; they tended to be strictly NSA.

So if anyone wants to read my post history, you'll know that I went on an awesome SA date pre-pandemic. Long story short, over the course of the pandemic this girl and I grew close to the point that she is now basically my novia. I think we were both in a position that we were lonely and wanted company, she didn't really need money at the time, and I wanted it to feel real, so I basically brought up the idea of vanilla, unpaid dates, and she was absolutely fine with it. Fast forward many months and many Zoom-based movie nights, and I finally got to see her a few weeks ago. I'll confess I am weak against the pleasures of the flesh, and I had seen other girls that I found on SA in Medellin. But to show you guys how chill my novia is, we went to La Isla strip club. Not only was she ok with me looking or touching, she actively brought over girls for me to play with. And at the end of the night, she said that she didn't consider it cheating if I had sex with other girls. So definitely picked the right one haha.

Anyways, I've been using Seeking in Mexico City and Colombia over the past couple of months while traveling. I've got to say, it takes a lot of time and patience for flakes, but the reward may be worth it depending on who you are. On multiple occasions I've had girls confirm with the day of and never show up. One girl even had the balls to say she was in the Uber on the way over and she ghosted me. And in general these girls will go days without answering their messages. But the upside is potentially so sweet. You might find a novia (feel like I've already struck gold) or at least find some very cute university girls / non-pros that you can chill with.

With these non-pros, there's no clock watching, complete GFE, and its a girl that I can just hang out with for hours and have a real conversation with. In contrast, I've never met an actual puta that I didn't want out of my room 10 minutes after finishing (then again, not very experienced, so who knows). I guess the only strategy is to have a stable of professionals at hand in case someone does flake. I'll confess my Medellin FB game was not on point, so I spent many nights just alone. Which is ok since I was and will be there for an extended period of time but not great for a someone trying to maximize their time.

[QUOTE=JackOfNone;2501863]Just because work is slow right now, thought I am going to share some of my SA experiences in my home country.

So I live in a northern European country where the girls are not considered the most beautiful, but still some lookers of course. I have had encounters with I think 7 or 8 girls over the last few months, have had sex with some, not with some, but overall has been a very interesting experience. SA girls are quite flaky and its a bit difficult to match schedules, arrange hotels and stuff when you are mongering in your own city. Thats why I have missed on meeting quite a few interesting ones, but the haul has not been bad by any measure. Here goes:

Girl 1: She is the first one I met and also the most fun one I met in my home country. We had a very nice drink on a terrace overlooking a lake as our first date and she looked quite lovely. With makeup, she looked like late 20's. She had a good figure, a little bit thicker than I usually prefer, but a solid 7.5-8 overall. We had a very nice chat for a couple of hours, the waiter who was serving us was an awesome guy, he realised that we were on a date and helped me a bit in making her laugh etc, asked both of us mischievously how the date is going, so that really helped break the ice, so the date overall went very well. I was very green at that time and honestly did not know how to bring up the money topic. But finally, while walking back towards our cars, I did bring up the money topic and agreed to meet that weekend for 250 ppm at her apartment. I think at that point she genuinely liked me and was looking forward to meet me. A nice wet kiss in the parking lot and went home happy that day..[/QUOTE]Thanks for posting. We can all learn from your experience.

First, you live in a Northern European country where the girls aren't considered the most beautiful. Hmmm. I was running through the Northern European countries. I started to think there must be a country north of Scandinavia that I do not know. LOL.

As you said, I think you made a big rookie sugar daddy mistake. As has been mentioned by Steve9696, keep the money as far apart from the sex as possible. I wouldn't blame the friend. Girls talk whether in the bathroom or as soon as you and your sugar baby are off the phone. Just by the way you described it, the sex sounded very transactional as soon as you began discussing specific amounts for specific sex acts. Perhaps it was more subtle. I'm guessing things were going well and alcohol colored your judgement a bit.

Good luck on getting back on track with this girl. I'm sure some time will help.

And yes, please post more experiences. I think the experiences help us inexperienced members understand how the sexual relationship can escalate or fail.

[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2501973]Thanks for posting. We can all learn from your experience.

First, you live in a Northern European country where the girls aren't considered the most beautiful. Hmmm. I was running through the Northern European countries. I started to think there must be a country north of Scandinavia that I do not know. LOL.

As you said, I think you made a big rookie sugar daddy mistake. As has been mentioned by Steve9696, keep the money as far apart from the sex as possible. I wouldn't blame the friend. Girls talk whether in the bathroom or as soon as you and your sugar baby are off the phone. Just by the way you described it, the sex sounded very transactional as soon as you began discussing specific amounts for specific sex acts. Perhaps it was more subtle. I'm guessing things were going well and alcohol colored your judgement a bit.

Good luck on getting back on track with this girl. I'm sure some time will help.

And yes, please post more experiences. I think the experiences help us inexperienced members understand how the sexual relationship can escalate or fail.[/QUOTE]We may be a bit biased because Montreal's Nordic Goddess is considered by most to be a true stunner.

[URL]https://twitter.com/MissSashaJo[/URL]

Jackofnone, do all Nordic women not look like her?

[QUOTE=JackOfNone;2501863]Just because work is slow right now, thought I am going to share some of my SA experiences in my home country.

So I live in a northern European country where the girls are not considered the most beautiful, but still some lookers of course. I have had encounters with I think 7 or 8 girls over the last few months, have had sex with some, not with some, but overall has been a very interesting experience. SA girls are quite flaky and its a bit difficult to match schedules, arrange hotels and stuff when you are mongering in your own city. Thats why I have missed on meeting quite a few interesting ones, but the haul has not been bad by any measure. Here goes:

Girl 1: She is the first one I met and also the most fun one I met in my home country. We had a very nice drink on a terrace overlooking a lake as our first date and she looked quite lovely. With makeup, she looked like late 20's. She had a good figure, a little bit thicker than I usually prefer, but a solid 7.5-8 overall. We had a very nice chat for a couple of hours, the waiter who was serving us was an awesome guy, he realised that we were on a date and helped me a bit in making her laugh etc, asked both of us mischievously how the date is going, so that really helped break the ice, so the date overall went very well. I was very green at that time and honestly did not know how to bring up the money topic. But finally, while walking back towards our cars, I did bring up the money topic and agreed to meet that weekend for 250 ppm at her apartment. I think at that point she genuinely liked me and was looking forward to meet me. A nice wet kiss in the parking lot and went home happy that day.

The day after, I was just casually chatting with her at night and she told me that she was at the casino with some friends. I joked if I could come over since I am a roulette fan, and she said sure. After thinking about it for a while, decided to go over and meet up with her and hopefully have fun at the casino. She was there with another couple (the girl was def another sugar baby friend of hers, I got to know later). This is important later. She did not look as nice as she did on the previous date, and was a little bit drunk, so I wasn't that happy this time, but went along with the flow. Played a bit of roulette, lost again like always, had a couple of drinks, and overall had quite a fun time. When I decided to go to the casino, I didn't have any intentions of taking the date to her apartment, but somehow we ended up talking about that. I did not have too much time that day and had to get home back soon, so I asked if we can go to her apartment for a preview of our weekend's date and not the full monty. She was on board for that after a bit of coaxing but she thought I thought I mean the same arrangement (250) also to meet tonight. I told her that I cannot stay for a ling time and thus we will not be able to enjoy each other fully, so how about a reduced arrangement of maybe 100-150, for like a blowjob or something like that. To be honest, I made the rookie sugar daddy mistake of thinking in terms of how much I would pay a hooker for a specific time frame. If this was now, I would have treated it differently.[/QUOTE]I feel that honestly you made a mistake. I would also give up on that girl and move on.

She is right in her mind thinking that you reneged on the terms. Negotiating for 250 and then saying you will give 150 because you have less time and can only do a blow job absolutely does treat her a prostitute and not only that cheapens it a bit. I am sorry to be harsh but that is the blunt truth.

To her, assuming she is a not pro, the very act of having any sexual contact is a big step. And whether it was a BJ or fucking, it is still sex. You are almost saying "I will give x euros for BJ, x1 euros for licking, x2 euros for fucking, etc". Frankly, that sort of a la carte pricing is how FKKs have changed of late and most mongers hate it. Why would a non-pro sugarbabe like it?

And you trying to repair it now will not work in my estimation. The girl has formed an impression in her mind. Is it worth changing it? She is not your GF. Just forget her and move on to greener pastures. Unless your city is a terrible hunting ground for sugar daddies, you are better off putting this behind you and finding someone else where the relationship is not spoiled due to prior impressions.

Anyway, that is what I would do if I were in your shoes today. Good luck.

I just returned from a trip to Puebla Mexico. It was Day of the dead weekend there. I have to say that the city was pretty much subdued because of covid. Everyone wore masks inside and out. We were able to see some sights and eat at some nice restaurants.

There were three of us on the trip. I used SA exclusively for finding dates for all of us. I started out about 3 weeks prior to my trip. I found a pretty 21 yr old college student. She stayed with me for 4 days. My other two friends had multiple dates from SA. One of my friends was even able to talk two chicas to come see him. The two girls had never met before. He said it was the best night of his life. All the girls ranged from 19-23. All very beautiful. We could have struck up with several more from SA. But didn't. We stayed at a small boutique hotel on the center square in the historic part of town. It was very girl friendly and had a nice restaurant & bar.

I almost always use SA exclusively now. It is a little expensive, but with great big rewards.

[QUOTE=JackOfNone;2501863]When I decided to go to the casino, I didn't have any intentions of taking the date to her apartment, but somehow we ended up talking about that. I did not have too much time that day and had to get home back soon, so I asked if we can go to her apartment for a preview of our weekend's date and not the full monty. She was on board for that after a bit of coaxing but she thought I thought I mean the same arrangement (250) also to meet tonight. I told her that I cannot stay for a ling time and thus we will not be able to enjoy each other fully, so how about a reduced arrangement of maybe 100-150, for like a blowjob or something like that. To be honest, I made the rookie sugar daddy mistake of thinking in terms of how much I would pay a hooker for a specific time frame. If this was now, I would have treated it differently.

Anyways, she was kind of ok with that and agreed to leave after she goes to the bathroom. We return to our table, she goes to the bathroom with her friend, and suddenly her mood had changed, and she told me that she did not like how I offered her money, and I should have made my proposal in a different way. I was a bit pissed honestly, and tried to come to an arrangement but the mood was already spoiled. I think the ***** friend said something about it when they went to the bathroom together, but don't know for sure. I finished my drink and left for the night (with a disappointed johnny). We kind of said our goodbyes the next day on text, but I was careful not to burn bridges.

I did message her after a few days, but she was a little bit dry, although still willing to meet. I haven't had the chance to meet her yet, but maybe someday, who knows.[/QUOTE]Thanks for sharing your story. Yeah, when we meet a non pro on SA, we have to tread carefully and not treat them like a pro and not treat them like something that we are buying. As Pessimist, WyattEarp, and Steve9696 have said recently and in the past, we have to separate the money and sex for non pro SA gals, otherwise they will feel bad about themselves. But this is easier said than done. In the beginning, when we meet an non pro SB for the first time, how do we separate the money from the sex? This is very hard to do. Many years ago, when I was pretty new to SA, I had a great first date, and she suddenly said, "lets go back to my place and snuggle. " I was stunned and thrilled. So I said, "okay, and I will give you $500. " She shot back, "I am not a prostitute!" I quickly apologized and told her that I was so crazy about her, that I lost my mind. That calmed her down. So, yeah, we have to separate money from sex, but how? I guess the best thing to do is to NOT bring up money unless she brings it up. This has worked for me on occassion. What I will do is listen carefully on the first date, and if we end up in the sack, then the next day, I will say, "last night, you told me your dog needed to see the vet today, I love dogs, so let me pay for that, here's $200. " Or, I will look for opportunities to pay for something else. Another example is that on the next day after a successful first date, I said, "I see your car door handle is broken. You should fix that. Let me give you $300. ".

Finally, I think sometimes we just have to roll the dice and take a plunge. One of my current SBs is someone I met for a PPM, and it was great, but then she said that she will never do that again. And so, I had to cajole her into seeing me a few times on real dates. We had lunch. We did window shopping. When she saw something she liked, I bought it for her. One time, I even bought her an expensive piece of jewelry. So one day, at lunch, she said, let's go to a hotel. She even paid for the room! A few days later, I said, "I know you have some stress about your mortgage back home, which is $1,200 per month. I like you a lot. And so, let me pay your mortgage for you every month." For me, I thought it was very important for me to wait a few days before I suggested paying her mortgage, so she didn't feel I was paying her for sex. That was a couple of months ago. Since then, I've been seeing her almost twice per week at my love shack. And each time meet, I give her nothing. At the end of the month, I give her money for her mortgage. Sometimes, I might still buy her stuff when she sees something she likes. But this relationship works because we keep money separate from sex. But it took a long time and a lot of money to get this established and running smoothly. She now even buys me small gifts (one time, she gave me a nice gift) and pays for lunch sometimes.

[QUOTE=Rextor;2501811]

Anyways, I've been using Seeking in Mexico City and Colombia over the past couple of months while traveling. I've got to say, it takes a lot of time and patience for flakes, but the reward may be worth it depending on who you are. On multiple occasions I've had girls confirm with the day of and never show up. One girl even had the balls to say she was in the Uber on the way over and she ghosted me. And in general these girls will go days without answering their messages. But the upside is potentially so sweet. You might find a novia (feel like I've already struck gold) or at least find some very cute university girls / non-pros that you can chill with.

With these non-pros, there's no clock watching, complete GFE, and its a girl that I can just hang out with for hours and have a real conversation with. [/QUOTE]Yeah, this is exactly the tradeoff. SA can be a lot of time and aggravation, but when you find good SBs, then it's totally worth it.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2502274]Thanks for sharing your story. Yeah, when we meet a non pro on SA, we have to tread carefully and not treat them like a pro and not treat them like something that we are buying. As Pessimist, WyattEarp, and Steve9696 have said recently and in the past, we have to separate the money and sex for non pro SA gals, otherwise they will feel bad about themselves. But this is easier said than done. In the beginning, when we meet an non pro SB for the first time, how do we separate the money from the sex? This is very hard to do. Many years ago, when I was pretty new to SA, I had a great first date, and she suddenly said, "lets go back to my place and snuggle. " I was stunned and thrilled. So I said, "okay, and I will give you $500. " She shot back, "I am not a prostitute!" I quickly apologized and told her that I was so crazy about her, that I lost my mind. That calmed her down. So, yeah, we have to separate money from sex, but how? I guess the best thing to do is to NOT bring up money unless she brings it up. This has worked for me on occassion. What I will do is listen carefully on the first date, and if we end up in the sack, then the next day, I will say, "last night, you told me your dog needed to see the vet today, I love dogs, so let me pay for that, here's $200. " Or, I will look for opportunities to pay for something else. Another example is that on the next day after a successful first date, I said, "I see your car door handle is broken. You should fix that. Let me give you $300. "..[/QUOTE]Wow, amazing report. I learned a lot, thanks for the advice and wisdom.

It is not difficult to separate money and sex during the discussions. I tell them I do give allowance / gifts. In fact I said so in my profile description itself. More than half the guys on SA are freeloaders and girls are assured if you tell them you will give allowance. Then the next question is how much and what is involved. If they ask me, I say the allowance can be help towards some of their expenses such as rent or books or just a cash amount to help out. If they press further, I will give a sense of the range of amounts I have given in the past. SOme ask what they need to do in return. I will keep it very general and will say that "just to get to know each other, how we get along and go from there". Most sensible girls know and realize they are not going to receive hundreds of dollars just for meeting for coffee. Well, if they do that is their problem because I am not giving them any cash after a coffee meet anyway. The important thing to do is never bring up sex explicitly in any discussion. Sooner or later the girl realizes she will see the money only she give it up. And as I said again and again, it is important you enjoy the process. If you are impatient and want to jump in the sack in 2 days, well ain't going to happen, not the way I do it. But that is why it is important to build a rolodex over time. Once you have had sex w / a girl, you don't have to do that dance all over again. From then on, it becomes totally normal, no discussion required whatsoever.

So still coming off the high of Alexa. Definitely one of my best life experiences. And she's so girlfriendy we chat nearly daily. It's almost like a real relationship.

Meanwhile Layla is kinda ghosting me after I ghosted her while with Alexa. It occurred to me that I've advanced her about $900 more than the sex we've had. So I realized she's not wanting to deal with the $900. Pondering this. Going to be important soon.

Recently also had a date with a stripper (Noelle) and met another on SA and realized the local club might be a place to find a hookup. So I've stopped in a few times. Still holding out a little hope but so far the strippers are proving lame:

1. Isabella is hot and fun. I get her number. Convinces me to do a private dance with her friend. It is of course lame and expensive as almost all US strip clubs are. Nonetheless we text back and forth and agree on a date. Set the time and place and everything. Then day of date she ghosts me.

2. Next day I find Aimee and she is totally new. A good thing. Get her number and try to generate some interest but seems pretty cool. May see her at the club again and see. She seems sweet and impressionable.

3. Arianna. From SA refuses to meet outside the club. Clearly just out to get a champagne room rip-off. Boo.

4. Noelle. This is the girl I had a great date with. She's on stage when I arrive. She says she thought I'the be mad at her but I say let's talk it out. First she contends I came on too strong (uh actually real girls are much more DTF than u) but then admits she will only do "fun time" but no sex. Wants $$ to be arm candy. Uh no. Time waster!

So really the stripper angle has been a bust. But hey window shopping is fun so I may keep it up.

So as I am nursing my wounds at the club after the Noelle fiasco I text Layla and say just tell me ur ok and she says shes been stressing about money and car repairs and all. So now, knowing my options are limited, I know what I have to do if I wanna get back in the game and say you can keep the $900 and if u ever wanna hook up hit me up and what do U know? She says what are u doing right now? Hahaha that was easy.

I tell her Ive only got a half hour but ten minutes later we go do a BJ in the car and I give her a small amount. It’s naughty and quick after blue balls and b*tches in the club and we are both happy. Then we meet up the next day and do 2 hours of nonstop sex for the usual allowance. So we are back on — pretty much sex in call. ($900 is not a huge amount of money to me and really shes been charging me $100-150 under market since August. And now I have sex on call again. Totally worth it.)

In other developments I've found a girl on the other end of the spectrum. Recent breakup. Never done SA. Manage to get her out on a date by swearing we will not do anything more than kiss (which both put her at ease and put kissing on the menu!) and it went super well. It was a little awkward because she's nervous. But after a bunch of drinks we go for a walk. I stop her and go for a kiss and after two soft close lips kisses the tongues come out and it's full on mackin. We walk back to my car and make out again. Wow. Really good. She's a great and passionate kisser. Felt like if we didn't have the pact it was on.

So now the question for you fellows. What's the next step? Another date and try for a hotel close? Talk a bit about what she sees as next steps? Start hinting private time is next? Anyone broken in a nervous first timer? Thoughts?

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2502382]If you are impatient and want to jump in the sack in 2 days, well ain't going to happen, not the way I do it. But that is why it is important to build a rolodex over time. Once you have had sex w / a girl, you don't have to do that dance all over again. From then on, it becomes totally normal, no discussion required whatsoever.[/QUOTE]Yes, this is exactly what I mean. It is not easy to jump in the sack right away. In the beginning, we have to delicately let a non-pro SA gal know that we will help them out financially, but we do not think of them as pros. It takes time to give her both assurances. Both are important to many non-pro SA gals. For me, it has worked out eventually ONLY when the gal genuinely likes me and is attracted to me. If she doesn't, then it doesn't work out for me despite my best efforts at giving her both assurances. For example, I have given money to girls to show them that I respect their time or to help them out with a bill or payment, but if we don't have sex by the 3rd date at the latest, then I know she's not really attracted to me and is only in it for the money, so I bail.

To make it seem non-transactional, this means we have to give them money when there is no sex. If you only give them money when you have sex, this does not separate money from sex that well, at least not in her mind. I still say it is tricky. Not easy to do. For example, how many of us have had sex with an SB and did not give her money on that day? It probably almost never happens. It only happens after a long process. It took me weeks and active effort to establish it with one SB, and it took me months to establish it with another SB, where we can now meet for sex and I don't pay them a dime, because they know I will help them out when they need it later because they now think we are in some sort of real relationship.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2502537]Yes, this is exactly what I mean. It is not easy to jump in the sack right away. In the beginning, we have to delicately let a non-pro SA gal know that we will help them out financially, but we do not think of them as pros. It takes time to give her both assurances. Both are important to many non-pro SA gals. For me, it has worked out eventually ONLY when the gal genuinely likes me and is attracted to me. If she doesn't, then it doesn't work out for me despite my best efforts at giving her both assurances. For example, I have given money to girls to show them that I respect their time or to help them out with a bill or payment, but if we don't have sex by the 3rd date at the latest, then I know she's not really attracted to me and is only in it for the money, so I bail.

To make it seem non-transactional, this means we have to give them money when there is no sex. If you only give them money when you have sex, this does not separate money from sex that well, at least not in her mind. I still say it is tricky. Not easy to do. For example, how many of us have had sex with an SB and did not give her money on that day? It probably almost never happens. It only happens after a long process. It took me weeks and active effort to establish it with one SB, and it took me months to establish it with another SB, where we can now meet for sex and I don't pay them a dime, because they know I will help them out when they need it later because they now think we are in some sort of real relationship.[/QUOTE]Question, I have found the girls that want gifts instead of money seem much more High Maintenance, what do you guys think? This last couple of reports real have me thinking, but I am not sure I am interested if there is not sex in Mexico. The girls that just wanted gifts, real were not looking for sex, in my opinion.

As far as gift they are special to me and I want them to be more meaningful if that makes sense, so I would rather give money.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2502532]
So now the question for you fellows. What's the next step? Another date and try for a hotel close? Talk a bit about what she sees as next steps? Start hinting private time is next? Anyone broken in a nervous first timer? Thoughts?[/QUOTE]If it were me, I would do another date like this. Then, on the third date, if you guys are still doing DFK, then ask if you can go to a hotel. If she says no, then bail on her after the date. I have a 3 date rule when it comes to real dating (that is, sex has to happen by the 3rd date, otherwise, she is stringing you along), so why wouldn't I apply the same rule for SA dating?

For normal dating, what is your "X" date rule?

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2502541]If it were me, I would do another date like this. Then, on the third date, if you guys are still doing DFK, then ask if you can go to a hotel. If she says no, then bail on her after the date. I have a 3 date rule when it comes to real dating (that is, sex has to happen by the 3rd date, otherwise, she is stringing you along), so why wouldn't I apply the same rule for SA dating?

For normal dating, what is your "X" date rule?[/QUOTE]Thanks sound advice. In the meantime we were chatting tonight and she asked how my day was. I gave her a full account and she said the only thing missing was someone to cuddle. Door open! We chatted some more and I think I charmed her pants off LOL because we are on for later this week with strongly implied hotel time. Cross your fingers.

[QUOTE=JackOfNone;2501863]Just because work is slow right now, thought I am going to share some of my SA experiences in my home country.

So I live in a northern European country where the girls are not considered the most beautiful, but still some lookers of course. I have had encounters with I think 7 or 8 girls over the last few months, have had sex with some, not with some, but overall has been a very interesting experience. SA girls are quite flaky and its a bit difficult to match schedules, arrange hotels and stuff when you are mongering in your own city. Thats why I have missed on meeting quite a few interesting ones, but the haul has not been bad by any measure. Here goes:

.....


If you guys are interested in reading more, just let me know and I will try to share my experiences with some other girls.
[/QUOTE]I'm interested in hearing more. To compare it with my own.

My experience, aside from 1, is that the subject of sex in the same sentence as money is very taboo in my country.
While the subject of money / compensation is no problem, the mention of sex gets response "we'll see how things go".

The 1 good one I met I've seen a couple of times now. We've now gotten to the point that she doesn't expect her PPM fee every time we meet.
Because she trusts me and enjoys the time together. And knows I pay for every thing while we spend time together.
While I still look for a 2nd regular one, she has raised the bar of what I'm willing to accept for a SB. Which only makes things more difficult in my country.



When I look at SB's from Lisbon / Portugal, they are open about the sex part. And mostly easy going.
And the impression I got was that they were looking for a fun time. And didn't quote insane prices.
I had to postpone my trip there due to circumstances but am definitely re-planning due to the small rolodex I built up.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2502537]Yes, this is exactly what I mean. It is not easy to jump in the sack right away. In the beginning, we have to delicately let a non-pro SA gal know that we will help them out financially, but we do not think of them as pros. It takes time to give her both assurances. Both are important to many non-pro SA gals. For me, it has worked out eventually ONLY when the gal genuinely likes me and is attracted to me. If she doesn't, then it doesn't work out for me despite my best efforts at giving her both assurances. For example, I have given money to girls to show them that I respect their time or to help them out with a bill or payment, but if we don't have sex by the 3rd date at the latest, then I know she's not really attracted to me and is only in it for the money, so I bail.

To make it seem non-transactional, this means we have to give them money when there is no sex. If you only give them money when you have sex, this does not separate money from sex that well, at least not in her mind. I still say it is tricky. Not easy to do. For example, how many of us have had sex with an SB and did not give her money on that day? It probably almost never happens. It only happens after a long process. It took me weeks and active effort to establish it with one SB, and it took me months to establish it with another SB, where we can now meet for sex and I don't pay them a dime, because they know I will help them out when they need it later because they now think we are in some sort of real relationship.[/QUOTE]It depends on where you met the girl, right?

As I recall, you are meeting a lot of girls in Beijing but not through SA. Did I get that right?

In that case, their expectations are quite different.

I meet mostly through SA. Such girls have a different expectation. With the SA girls, it is definitely a transaction to a large extent but the trick is not to articulate the transaction in so many words. So, when I first meet the girl for a coffee / drink / dinner whatever that is, I pay for her share as on any date we would but do not give any cash. Some girls (or many) ask upfront if I give them any cash allowance for first meet and I say no, I do not give any allowance for meet and greets as she also benefits from them as much as I do. If they insist, I just ignore them. Some of them come back and say "OK, I will meet for a lunch w / o upfront allowance", and some just block me and move on. Either is fine.

But if the meet and greet goes well and ends up in sex, I do give her the allowance obviously. And the girl knows when she will get allowance and when she won't. No need to enunciate any of this in any words. They are smart, can put two and two together.

But I know it is a different process with girls you meet through non-SA channels, as you do. I did use Tinder a while ago and met a few and for a couple of them gave some gifts as in a traditional sugar babe arrangement but they turned out to be girls with some experience with sugar arrangements. I kinda got worried my identity would blow up on Tinder and left that app since then. SA feels much safer, I will not run into girls I know (and if I do, I can filter them out of course).

I have compiled a table with typical allowances for a standard food / drinks+more arrangement for various places around the globe based on the data available in this thread and in country specific threads. Originally did that for my personal use for the coming months, but I thought it could be sensible to share in order to exchange data points and thus avoid overpaying and keep cost low in the long run.

Before I post, I wondered whether you guys are even interested in that?

[QUOTE=Ailton;2503117]I have compiled a table with typical allowances for a standard food / drinks+more arrangement for various places around the globe based on the data available in this thread and in country specific threads. Originally did that for my personal use for the coming months, but I thought it could be sensible to share in order to exchange data points and thus avoid overpaying and keep cost low in the long run.

Before I post, I wondered whether you guys are even interested in that?[/QUOTE]Would be interesting but numbers w / o context lose their meaning. I mean, even in the same city, I might pay x for a 20 year old pretty blonde, why for 25 year old curvy Latina, and z for <pick some other woman type . And those might change if I am seeing them just once, part of a regular arrangement, etc and some other dude may end up paying something else to the same ladies.

That said, the table would definitely lead to some interesting discussions and that alone is worth seeing the table.

Hope you enjoyed compiling it.

[QUOTE=Ailton;2503117]I have compiled a table with typical allowances for a standard food / drinks+more arrangement for various places around the globe based on the data available in this thread and in country specific threads. Originally did that for my personal use for the coming months, but I thought it could be sensible to share in order to exchange data points and thus avoid overpaying and keep cost low in the long run.

Before I post, I wondered whether you guys are even interested in that?[/QUOTE]Sure. All information is good. If you can indicate which points are estimates and guesses, the would also be good. But the usually caveat remains. There are only trends. Each girl is different.

[QUOTE=Ailton;2503117]I have compiled a table with typical allowances for a standard food / drinks+more arrangement for various places around the globe based on the data available in this thread and in country specific threads. Originally did that for my personal use for the coming months, but I thought it could be sensible to share in order to exchange data points and thus avoid overpaying and keep cost low in the long run.

Before I post, I wondered whether you guys are even interested in that?[/QUOTE]In general I think when in doubt post. I mean, people can easily skip posts and some might be interested. In this particular case I think there would be a lot of interested folks. Post away!

[QUOTE=JackOfNone;2503292]Basically, I take the conversation forward in one of two ways: If the girl is hot (normal hot, not WG hot), I try not to have the financial discussion upfront but do meet for a coffee.........[/QUOTE]I can understand from the context, but what does WG hot mean exactly?

I also presume you meet the hot ones for coffee first before unveiling your desire for carnal pleasure because these "hot" girls are getting chatted up for sex on-line quite regularly. This would be a way to establish some connection first.

[B]Europe[/B]

Czech Republic [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements/page2]Test 1[/URL].

[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2503350]I can understand from the context, but what does WG hot mean exactly?

I also presume you meet the hot ones for coffee first before unveiling your desire for carnal pleasure because these "hot" girls are getting chatted up for sex on-line quite regularly. This would be a way to establish some connection first.[/QUOTE]WG hot means girls with professional suggestive photoshoots, anyone with photos of luxury bags, luxury cars etc in their profile, or anything else that shows she just wants to earn as much money as she can as fast as possible. I don't touch them with a 10 foot pole. I find profiles having normal non-professional photos, at normal places and which do not mention things like "I like luxury things and want my sugar daddy to support me in blah blah blah". Probably if I had more time, I would have given some of them the benefit of doubt, but I always try to maximise the use of my limited time and opportunities to meet girls with whom I have the best chance of reaching the conclusion, even if they are not the hottest.

I am normally open to having just a coffee with girls that look nice (not necessarily hot) and with whom I find a nice click. Mostly, these are girls below 25 who work in the hospitality sector or are students. The ones that are open to intimacy on the first date are mostly in the age range 27-33, although I have had sex with a 22 year old on the first date.

Maybe the reason a direct approach works in my country is because people are very direct here, almost to the fault of being rude. I can understand the advise of being political and not mentioning sex in the first conversation in other countries like the US, but here nobody that I have to talked to has ever been offended when I mentioned the possibility of being intimate in the future when we were having our first coffee / drink. The normal answer to that in 90% of the cases is: If there is a click, we can go forward.

Different rules work for different places, I guess.

All that said, I absolutely love the chase and the gradual breaking down of the barriers of a girl who is on the fence. It is an ego booster for sure and I love to hone my game. When I got SA membership the first time, I almost did not work at all in the week I had SA and spent more than 8 hours everyday chatting up girls and trying to build a rolodex haha. Its a pity that I do not have the opportunity to take most of my conversation offline.

The data isn't that extensive yet as I was focussing on one particular country that I will be travelling next year. I am looking forward to contributions, specifically I would be personally interested to find out about Istanbul, St Petersburg and Italy. All data points are appropriately referenced with links within this forum which should capacitate one to get into touch with the respective member that has experience with the destination of interest. Please advise if you find any misrepresentations.

[B]EUROPE[/B]

[B]Austria[/B]

Vienna [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449952&viewfull=1#post2449952]300 EUR for the Night[/URL].

[B]Czech Republic[/B]

Prague [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2491118&viewfull=1#post2491118]300 - 350 EUR[/URL] [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449952&viewfull=1#post2449952]200 EUR for the night[/URL] [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2445539&viewfull=1#post2445539]150 - 300 EUR[/URL].

[B]Germany[/B]

Berlin [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2491118&viewfull=1#post2491118]300 - 350 EUR[/URL] [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449952&viewfull=1#post2449952]500 EUR for the night[/URL].

[B]Netherlands[/B]

Amsterdam [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/archive/index.php/t-4144-p-5.html?]200 EUR for a couple of hours. 300 for a whole night[/URL].

[B]Poland[/B]

Warsaw [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2491118&viewfull=1#post2491118]300 - 350 EUR[/URL].

[B]Portugal[/B]

Lisbon [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/archive/index.php/t-4144-p-5.html?]150 - 200 EUR for a couple of hours to a whole night, depending on girl(targeting only top 20% of the girls, no 25+ or fat girls)[/URL] [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2499125&viewfull=1#post2499125]100 - 200 EUR[/URL].

[B]Spain[/B]

Barcelona [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449952&viewfull=1#post2449952] Full weekend: 300 EUR. Generally 200 - 500 EUR for a weekend. [/URL].

[B]Ukraine[/B]

Kiev [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?816-Kiev&p=2493582&viewfull=1#post2493582]250 USD, disputed, several data points lower than that[/URL] [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?816-Kiev&p=2497541&viewfull=1#post2497541]140 - 180 USD (4000-5000 UAH)[/URL].

[B]United Kingdom[/B]

London [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2491118&viewfull=1#post2491118]300 - 350 EUR[/URL] [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2411854&viewfull=1#post2411854]350 Sterling[/URL].

[B]North America[/B]

[B]United States[/B]

Atlanta [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449909&viewfull=1#post2449909]200 - 350 USD for a solid 6 to 8[/URL].

Austin [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2438062&viewfull=1#post2438062]400 - 500 USD[/URL].

Boston [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2417099&viewfull=1#post2417099]300 - 350 USD[/URL].

Chicago [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/archive/index.php/t-4144-p-5.html?]Under 300 USD is doable[/URL].

Denver [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2491118&viewfull=1#post2491118]200 USD[/URL].

Detroit [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449167&viewfull=1#post2449167]300 USD[/URL].

Houston [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2438062&viewfull=1#post2438062]400 - 500 USD[/URL].

Jacksonville (FL) [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449459&viewfull=1#post2449459]150 - 200 USD for a 6/7. 200 - 250 USD for a 7/8 college aged. 400 USD solid 9[/URL].

Las Vegas [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449167&viewfull=1#post2449167]400 USD[/URL].

LOS Angeles [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449167&viewfull=1#post2449167]200 USD second tier. 300 first tier.[/URL] [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2450228&viewfull=1#post2450228]300 USD[/URL].

Miami [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449167&viewfull=1#post2449167]300 USD[/URL].

Milwaukee [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/archive/index.php/t-4144-p-5.html?]Under 300 USD is doable[/URL].

Nashville [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449167&viewfull=1#post2449167]200 USD second tier. 300 first tier.[/URL].

New York City [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2491132&viewfull=1#post2491132]500 USD[/URL] [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449167&viewfull=1#post2449167]400 USD second tier, 500 USD first tier[/URL].

Portland [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2413337&viewfull=1#post2413337]300 USD[/URL].

San Antonio [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2438062&viewfull=1#post2438062]300 - 350 USD[/URL].

San Francisco [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2491132&viewfull=1#post2491132]500 USD[/URL] [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2448844&viewfull=1#post2448844]500 USD[/URL] [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2448831&viewfull=1#post2448831]300 USD for exchange student[/URL].

Savannah (GA) [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449459&viewfull=1#post2449459]150 - 200 USD for a 6/7. 200 - 250 USD for a 7/8 college aged. 400 USD solid 9[/URL].

[B]Canada[/B]

Montreal [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?806-Zurich&p=2500452&viewfull=1#post2500452]300 CAD[/URL].

[B]Mexico[/B]

Mexico City [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2485508&viewfull=1#post2485508]1500 - 3000 MXN, possibly 4000 MXN for high-end.[/URL].

[B]SOUTH AMERICA[/B]

[B]Brazil[/B]

Sao Paulo [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2448768&viewfull=1#post2448768]800 Rs for model quality[/URL].

[B]Colombia[/B]

Medellin [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2448768&viewfull=1#post2448768]7-8 girl 100 USD todo la noche, 8.5 - 9 girl 100 - 200 USD all day[/URL] [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?583-Medellin-Reports&p=2419466&viewfull=1#post2419466]100 USD[/URL].

[B]Peru[/B]

Cusco [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2448824&viewfull=1#post2448824]100 USD for whole weekend[/URL].

[B]ASIA[/B]

[B]United Arab Emirates[/B]

Dubai [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?3910-Sugar-Life&p=2381783&viewfull=1#post2381783]Depending on Tier: 400 - 800 USD[/URL].

[B]OCEANIA[/B]

[B]Australia[/B]

Sydney [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/archive/index.php/t-840-p-28.html?]400 - 500 AUD[/URL].

[QUOTE=JackOfNone;2503460]I find profiles having normal non-professional photos, at normal places and which do not mention things like "I like luxury things and want my sugar daddy to support me in blah blah blah". e.[/QUOTE]I also steer well clear of profiles with statements like:

"I want to be spoiled."

"I want to experience what it is to live a life of luxury."

"Allowance plus shopping trips".

For me these have gotten the world the wrong way around. Certainly I have spoiled girls after they have proven themselves but I don't get any pleasure from doing it on demand.

Ailton, this is fucking awesome! I especially like the links so that we can see the post and who you got the data point from! The links are what makes this amazing. I cannot believe you did this. Please maintain this! You are awesome. You're our data guy.

[QUOTE=Ailton;2503487]The data isn't that extensive yet as I was focussing on one particular country that I will be travelling next year. I am looking forward to contributions, specifically I would be personally interested to find out about Istanbul, St Petersburg and Italy. All data points are appropriately referenced with links within this forum which should capacitate one to get into touch with the respective member that has experience with the destination of interest. Please advise if you find any misrepresentations.

[B]EUROPE[/B]

[B]Austria[/B]

Vienna [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449952&viewfull=1#post2449952]300 EUR for the Night[/URL].

[B]Czech Republic[/B]

Prague [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2491118&viewfull=1#post2491118]300 - 350 EUR[/URL] [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449952&viewfull=1#post2449952]200 EUR for the night[/URL] [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2445539&viewfull=1#post2445539]150 - 300 EUR[/URL].

[B]Germany[/B]

Berlin [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2491118&viewfull=1#post2491118]300 - 350 EUR[/URL] [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449952&viewfull=1#post2449952]500 EUR for the night[/URL].

[B]Netherlands[/B]

Amsterdam [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/archive/index.php/t-4144-p-5.html?]200 EUR for a couple of hours. 300 for a whole night[/URL].

[B]Poland[/B]

Warsaw [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2491118&viewfull=1#post2491118]300 - 350 EUR[/URL].

[B]Portugal[/B]

Lisbon [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/archive/index.php/t-4144-p-5.html?]150 - 200 EUR for a couple of hours to a whole night, depending on girl(targeting only top 20% of the girls, no 25+ or fat girls)[/URL] [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2499125&viewfull=1#post2499125]100 - 200 EUR[/URL].

[B]Spain[/B]

Barcelona [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449952&viewfull=1#post2449952] Full weekend: 300 EUR. Generally 200 - 500 EUR for a weekend. [/URL].

[B]Ukraine[/B]

Kiev [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?816-Kiev&p=2493582&viewfull=1#post2493582]250 USD, disputed, several data points lower than that[/URL] [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?816-Kiev&p=2497541&viewfull=1#post2497541]140 - 180 USD (4000-5000 UAH)[/URL].

[B]United Kingdom[/B]

London [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2491118&viewfull=1#post2491118]300 - 350 EUR[/URL] [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2411854&viewfull=1#post2411854]350 Sterling[/URL].

[B]North America[/B]

[B]United States[/B]

Atlanta [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449909&viewfull=1#post2449909]200 - 350 USD for a solid 6 to 8[/URL].

Austin [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2438062&viewfull=1#post2438062]400 - 500 USD[/URL].

Boston [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2417099&viewfull=1#post2417099]300 - 350 USD[/URL].

Chicago [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/archive/index.php/t-4144-p-5.html?]Under 300 USD is doable[/URL].

Denver [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2491118&viewfull=1#post2491118]200 USD[/URL].

Detroit [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449167&viewfull=1#post2449167]300 USD[/URL].

Houston [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2438062&viewfull=1#post2438062]400 - 500 USD[/URL].

Jacksonville (FL) [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449459&viewfull=1#post2449459]150 - 200 USD for a 6/7. 200 - 250 USD for a 7/8 college aged. 400 USD solid 9[/URL].

Las Vegas [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449167&viewfull=1#post2449167]400 USD[/URL].

LOS Angeles [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449167&viewfull=1#post2449167]200 USD second tier. 300 first tier.[/URL] [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2450228&viewfull=1#post2450228]300 USD[/URL].

Miami [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449167&viewfull=1#post2449167]300 USD[/URL].

Milwaukee [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/archive/index.php/t-4144-p-5.html?]Under 300 USD is doable[/URL].

Nashville [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449167&viewfull=1#post2449167]200 USD second tier. 300 first tier.[/URL].

New York City [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2491132&viewfull=1#post2491132]500 USD[/URL] [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449167&viewfull=1#post2449167]400 USD second tier, 500 USD first tier[/URL].

Portland [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2413337&viewfull=1#post2413337]300 USD[/URL].

San Antonio [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2438062&viewfull=1#post2438062]300 - 350 USD[/URL].

San Francisco [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2491132&viewfull=1#post2491132]500 USD[/URL] [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2448844&viewfull=1#post2448844]500 USD[/URL] [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2448831&viewfull=1#post2448831]300 USD for exchange student[/URL].

Savannah (GA) [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449459&viewfull=1#post2449459]150 - 200 USD for a 6/7. 200 - 250 USD for a 7/8 college aged. 400 USD solid 9[/URL].

[B]Canada[/B]

Montreal [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?806-Zurich&p=2500452&viewfull=1#post2500452]300 CAD[/URL].

[B]Mexico[/B]

Mexico City [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2485508&viewfull=1#post2485508]1500 - 3000 MXN, possibly 4000 MXN for high-end.[/URL].

[B]SOUTH AMERICA[/B]

[B]Brazil[/B]

Sao Paulo [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2448768&viewfull=1#post2448768]800 Rs for model quality[/URL].

[B]Colombia[/B]

Medellin [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2448768&viewfull=1#post2448768]7-8 girl 100 USD todo la noche, 8.5 - 9 girl 100 - 200 USD all day[/URL] [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?583-Medellin-Reports&p=2419466&viewfull=1#post2419466]100 USD[/URL].

[B]Peru[/B]

Cusco [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2448824&viewfull=1#post2448824]100 USD for whole weekend[/URL].

[B]ASIA[/B]

[B]United Arab Emirates[/B]

Dubai [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?3910-Sugar-Life&p=2381783&viewfull=1#post2381783]Depending on Tier: 400 - 800 USD[/URL].

[B]OCEANIA[/B]

[B]Australia[/B]

Sydney [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/archive/index.php/t-840-p-28.html?]400 - 500 AUD[/URL].[/QUOTE]

Second MW. Lovely list. Obviously everyone's personal experiences differ slightly but in cities that I have used SA services your numbers approximately match my own personal experience. I never tried the weekend arrangements in Barcelona etc and those sound like fantastic deals. I have paid 200 E for a normal meet in those places however. Generally, 200 to 250 is a good price in Europe, depending on the girl. I think my deals were at lesser amounts in TX than what your list says and 300-350 in London sounds like a great deal. Never got it. I stopped trying in London in my last couple of visits and now just enjoy the city.

Are these compiled from data points supplied on ISG or did you combine with external inputs?

Thanks again.

[QUOTE=Ailton;2503487]The data isn't that extensive yet as I was focussing on one particular country that I will be travelling next year. I am looking forward to contributions, specifically I would be personally interested to find out about Istanbul, St Petersburg and Italy. All data points are appropriately referenced with links within this forum which should capacitate one to get into touch with the respective member that has experience with the destination of interest. Please advise if you find any misrepresentations.

[B]EUROPE[/B]

[B]Austria[/B]

Vienna [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449952&viewfull=1#post2449952]300 EUR for the Night[/URL].

[B]Czech Republic[/B]

Prague [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2491118&viewfull=1#post2491118]300 - 350 EUR[/URL] [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449952&viewfull=1#post2449952]200 EUR for the night[/URL] [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2445539&viewfull=1#post2445539]150 - 300 EUR[/URL]...[/QUOTE]

I would like to give back to this forum as I have learnt a lot about SA from the many posters here. Thanks you guys, you are doing an amazing job!

I have been on SA since March this year. I usually do not have much time to spend on SA therefore over the months I have adjusted my approach and now basically my game is to chat as less as possible on SA and move her to WhatsApp, after giving her clear indication that I am looking for intimacy. This helps me in avoiding any misunderstanding and my time being wasted. I understand that this can be bit direct for other countries, but this works in my case as I am in Netherlands and people generally here are straight forward.

Anyways, moving on. Once we are on WhatsApp, I don't waste my time beyond exchanging initial pleasantries and I mostly (90% of the time) follow up with a question "So what kind of arrangements do you usually do"? Now, there could be number of possible answers (which I don't give a fuck about) but it helps me to break the ice and perhaps have a discussion about the arrangement and the price. Once, we agree on a date and before I book a hotel, I usually have a call (this is to make sure that its not a scam, and to get a feel of the potential lay).

Now about prices, I have seen that most of the girls (aged 19-21) agree for 200 euros for 3 to 4 hours for a first date itself (no coffee, no meeting up before hotel date bullshit). In my experience, girls who are 23 and above have quoted 500 and plus, however some do come back to the line and have agreed for 250-300 (after I totally refuse or negotiate, depends on how hot the girl is). Then there is this other category of girls which after quoting 500/600 Euros, negotiate based on the time, saying that they could spend only 1 hour or 2 hours for 250 euros. I am usually not interested in them, as I get a feeling of a regular WG.

So to summarize. My highest success rate has been with girls from age 19-21, with a price of 200 PPM. And so far I have sampled around 10-12 different girls from SA and have only repeated 1 because I paid her 300 for the first time and then tried my luck with 200 and she agreed.

Hope this gives a little bit of perspective to the guys who are new to SA.

[QUOTE=Ailton;2503487]The data isn't that extensive yet as I was focussing on one particular country that I will be travelling next year. I am looking forward to contributions, specifically I would be personally interested to find out about Istanbul, St Petersburg and Italy. All data points are appropriately referenced with links within this forum which should capacitate one to get into touch with the respective member that has experience with the destination of interest. Please advise if you find any misrepresentations.

[B]EUROPE[/B]

[B]Austria[/B]

Vienna [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449952&viewfull=1#post2449952]300 EUR for the Night[/URL].....................[/QUOTE]Excellent summary with source links. Gives you an idea what cities are the most expensive for sugar babies. With USA Dollars, I'm intrigued by Montreal. Montreal is not an expensive city for Americans. The Quebecoise women are also more open sexually. It's also relatively easy to get to MTL.

When negotiating, you will always have to deal with the compounding effect of different ranges. First, the range for allowances. Second, does a woman who might be a 7 think she is an 8. I think many of the experienced daddies here are very good at finding attractive girls who are reasonable and modest.

[QUOTE=AmsBoy;2503694]I would like to give back to this forum as I have learnt a lot about SA from the many posters here. Thanks you guys, you are doing an amazing job!

I have been on SA since March this year. I usually do not have much time to spend on SA therefore over the months I have adjusted my approach and now basically my game is to chat as less as possible on SA and move her to WhatsApp, after giving her clear indication that I am looking for intimacy. This helps me in avoiding any misunderstanding and my time being wasted. I understand that this can be bit direct for other countries, but this works in my case as I am in Netherlands and people generally here are straight forward.

So to summarize. My highest success rate has been with girls from age 19-21, with a price of 200 PPM. And so far I have sampled around 10-12 different girls from SA and have only repeated 1 because I paid her 300 for the first time and then tried my luck with 200 and she agreed.

Hope this gives a little bit of perspective to the guys who are new to SA.[/QUOTE]Thanks for this info. Looks like I need to be less softer in my approach.

[QUOTE=Ailton;2503487]The data isn't that extensive yet as I was focussing on one particular country that I will be travelling next year. I am looking forward to contributions, specifically I would be personally interested to find out about Istanbul, St Petersburg and Italy. All data points are appropriately referenced with links within this forum which should capacitate one to get into touch with the respective member that has experience with the destination of interest. Please advise if you find any misrepresentations.
[/QUOTE]Amazing, very useful. I see similarities and also where I'm off. Thank you, brother.

[QUOTE=JackOfNone;2503292]Sure, I have a different approach than most of the guys on this forum, and that is purely because of my personal limitations about how much time and how often I can spend time with girls I meet through SA. While I agree in principle on the advice "keep money and time separate" and agree that this should be the way to enjoy sugar dating to the fullest, my approach is to keep the arrangement clear.


I also have a girl who I met a couple of times now like you, and on our second meeting, she told me that I don't have to give her an amount per date. I normally try to do a whole afternoon and evening with her with a lunch and at least 4-5 hours in the room. She said that maybe she can give me her bank account, and I can just deposit money in it whenever I feel like. It would have been a good arrangement if I had the time for a monthly arrangement. Unfortunately, I don't, so to keep things simple, I only do PPMs. It works for me since I am able to take time out only maybe twice a month for SA girls (coffee or hotels).[/QUOTE]Thanks for the insight. Helps a lot.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2503639]Ailton, this is fucking awesome! I especially like the links so that we can see the post and who you got the data point from! The links are what makes this amazing. I cannot believe you did this. Please maintain this! You are awesome. You're our data guy.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=Midwestern;2503639]Ailton, this is fucking awesome! I especially like the links so that we can see the post and who you got the data point from! The links are what makes this amazing. I cannot believe you did this. Please maintain this! You are awesome. You're our data guy.[/QUOTE]Awesome report, MTY is 3000-4500 pesos, $150-250. (This is for several hours, depending on your game, Range from 6-8. 5's all day long) Moscow $150-350, once you get above $200 you can score some stunners.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2503639]Ailton, this is fucking awesome! I especially like the links so that we can see the post and who you got the data point from! The links are what makes this amazing. I cannot believe you did this. Please maintain this! You are awesome. You're our data guy.[/QUOTE]You are welcome. You guys have saved me a lot of money, as I was originally willing to pay to pay much more. I simply maintained an excel sheet and whenever I saw something of interest, made an entry. Will definitely maintain the work.

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2503687]Second MW. Lovely list. Obviously everyone's personal experiences differ slightly but in cities that I have used SA services your numbers approximately match my own personal experience. I never tried the weekend arrangements in Barcelona etc and those sound like fantastic deals. I have paid 200 E for a normal meet in those places however. Generally, 200 to 250 is a good price in Europe, depending on the girl. I think my deals were at lesser amounts in TX than what your list says and 300-350 in London sounds like a great deal. Never got it. I stopped trying in London in my last couple of visits and now just enjoy the city.[/QUOTE]No problem! What was your experience in London? Were the quotes considerably higher than what other members have stated?

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2503687]Are these compiled from data points supplied on ISG or did you combine with external inputs?[/QUOTE]Until now, it is ISG only.

[QUOTE=AmsBoy;2503694]Now about prices, I have seen that most of the girls (aged 19-21) agree for 200 euros for 3 to 4 hours for a first date itself (no coffee, no meeting up before hotel date bullshit). In my experience, girls who are 23 and above have quoted 500 and plus, however some do come back to the line and have agreed for 250-300 (after I totally refuse or negotiate, depends on how hot the girl is). Then there is this other category of girls which after quoting 500/600 Euros, negotiate based on the time, saying that they could spend only 1 hour or 2 hours for 250 euros. I am usually not interested in them, as I get a feeling of a regular WG.

So to summarize. My highest success rate has been with girls from age 19-21, with a price of 200 PPM. And so far I have sampled around 10-12 different girls from SA and have only repeated 1 because I paid her 300 for the first time and then tried my luck with 200 and she agreed.[/QUOTE]Your numbers are great! Thank you for that addition. Am I right to assume that these numbers should apply to the whole of NL?

[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2503759]Excellent summary with source links. Gives you an idea what cities are the most expensive for sugar babies. With USA Dollars, I'm intrigued by Montreal. Montreal is not an expensive city for Americans. The Quebecoise women are also more open sexually. It's also relatively easy to get to MTL.[/QUOTE]Absolutely agree. The offerings between MTL and QC are also vast on SA. Looking forward to spoil you with a good report on MTL in the first half of 2021.

(just realized I saved the wrong link for MTL or the original post has been deleted, maybe one of you guys could help out with that. I strongly suspect MTL might be a sweet spot).

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2503849]Awesome report, MTY is 3000-4500 pesos, $150-250. (This is for several hours, depending on your game, Range from 6-8. 5's all day long) Moscow $150-350, once you get above $200 you can score some stunners.[/QUOTE]Thank you for these numbers. Mongering in Russia must be an adventure!

Ailton: Here's another data point for your database. I used SA a lot in Niagara Falls, Canada. A few years ago, the price point was 200-250 CAD. However, a year ago, the gals were asking for 300 CAD. I bet 250 CAD is still possible though. That's a bargain, considering the exchange rate, and considering how pretty decent looking the gals were. The thing about Niagara Falls, Canada, is that there a LOT of people there that work in the tourism industry, but they do not make much money, and so there are many gals looking to make extra money on the side, and there are a lot of hotties there too. The other thing about Niagara Falls, Canada, is that the pros charge around 200 CAD (if my recollection is correct), and so the competition from pros keeps the SB rates low and competitive.

What would be of great help in filling out the chart is some indication of the success rates in the various places. It is one thing to find a data point. It is entirely another thing to know how much chaff you have to sort through to get a good SB. It will always be a chore, but some cities / countries are more target rich while others are simply not worth the effort. That is why a WG is a good option. You don't have to nego and sex is a sure thing. In any case, thanks to all for providing much needed data and experiences.

[QUOTE=Ailton;2503852] Your numbers are great! Thank you for that addition. Am I right to assume that these numbers should apply to the whole of NL? [/QUOTE]From my experience, I have usually approached girls in and around Amsterdam, Rotterdam and The Hague area. So I think that should cover the major part of the country.

[QUOTE=Ailton;2503852]No problem! What was your experience in London? Were the quotes considerably higher than what other members have stated?.[/QUOTE]My experiences in London were in my role as a visitor only, did not live in London during the time I have had my SA subscription. That is now nearing 5 years, and visited London may be 6 times in this period. The most I ever managed was a couple of drink / dinner meets. Was stood up twice. Girls demanded upfront gifts / allowances just to meet and that is not acceptable to me. The ones that progressed to a face to face meet were looking at north of 4 to 5, and that was not particularly attractive. It also generally happened that in most of those visits I was visiting continental Europe along with London, and I knew that I would either visit FKKs or brothels or have a better deal in the countries I was visiting, so I passed. Perhaps if I had been a local and with more patience, I would have had an easier time in London.

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2504052]My experiences in London were in my role as a visitor only, did not live in London during the time I have had my SA subscription. That is now nearing 5 years, and visited London may be 6 times in this period. The most I ever managed was a couple of drink / dinner meets. Was stood up twice. Girls demanded upfront gifts / allowances just to meet and that is not acceptable to me. The ones that progressed to a face to face meet were looking at north of 4 to 5, and that was not particularly attractive. It also generally happened that in most of those visits I was visiting continental Europe along with London, and I knew that I would either visit FKKs or brothels or have a better deal in the countries I was visiting, so I passed. Perhaps if I had been a local and with more patience, I would have had an easier time in London.[/QUOTE]There is definitely limited data on London so guessing he used my reports. I think it makes sense that there is limited data because the Diva agency girls are awesome And well priced. So you really have to be after the full dinner etc experience to bother with SA. My two SA experiences in London were as follows (happy to report full reports if you like):

1 Oct 2019 Desperate for the full date experience. Found a Columbiana at the last minute. She wanted 350 £ which seemed high to me but I went with it. It was her friends birthday so she came too. End up with four hours of dinner dancing drinking and sex with a seven and a nine. It was a great deal in the end.

2 Feb 2020. Again quite last minute. I was using the "I'm going dancing in Soho. Join me. " approach and got several bites. Finally settled on complete non-pro but she wouldn't budge below 250 £. Came straight to my room but was a slow starter. Two hours of drink and chat and then 2 hrs of non stop amazing sex. Solid 8. 5.

So I've gotten extremely good value. But maybe lucky. Certainly a four hour duo for 350 doesn't happen every day!

[QUOTE=Akibono;2503920]What would be of great help in filling out the chart is some indication of the success rates in the various places. It is one thing to find a data point. It is entirely another thing to know how much chaff you have to sort through to get a good SB. It will always be a chore, but some cities / countries are more target rich while others are simply not worth the effort. That is why a WG is a good option. You don't have to nego and sex is a sure thing. In any case, thanks to all for providing much needed data and experiences.[/QUOTE]This would be a very difficult task. You would be quantifying the almost totally subjective. Beyond the dollars and euros, there is a lot of game involved. I suppose one can make generalizations about a city, but I think that would have limited use. Some guys are also good screeners as well as good communicators.

[QUOTE=Ailton;2503902]Thank you for these numbers. Mongering in Russia must be an adventure![/QUOTE]Yes, it was heaven, but Russia girls are lazy and love there holidays. For those reasons I kins of prefer MTY, girls are a little bit more grounded and realistic. Russian girls live in a fantasy world when it comes to money.

I do miss the Discos in Moscow, but those days are over, maybe for a long time. Each time I would go back less and less people were going to the night clubs, for all different reasons. They were only good on Fridays and Saturdays were hit or miss.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2504098]There is definitely limited data on London so guessing he used my reports. I think it makes sense that there is limited data because the Diva agency girls are awesome And well priced. So you really have to be after the full dinner etc experience to bother with SA. My two SA experiences in London were as follows (happy to report full reports if you like):

1 Oct 2019 Desperate for the full date experience. Found a Columbiana at the last minute. She wanted 350 which seemed high to me but I went with it. It was her friends birthday so she came too. End up with four hours of dinner dancing drinking and sex with a seven and a nine. It was a great deal in the end.

2 Feb 2020. Again quite last minute. I was using the "I'm going dancing in Soho. Join me. " approach and got several bites. Finally settled on complete non-pro but she wouldn't budge below 250 . Came straight to my room but was a slow starter. Two hours of drink and chat and then 2 hrs of non stop amazing sex. Solid 8. 5.

So I've gotten extremely good value. But maybe lucky. Certainly a four hour duo for 350 doesn't happen every day![/QUOTE]Thanks for sharing. Those are good experiences. I do remember your Diva reports. What drives your decision to pick Diva or SA girls when in London? I figured you liked Diva so much that you would probably go with them all the time when visiting in London, so perhaps SA is a change up? Its kinda like when in Frankfurt or NRW, I will hardly bother w / SA because my entire schedule in those places is around visiting FKKs.

[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2504142]This would be a very difficult task. You would be quantifying the almost totally subjective. Beyond the dollars and euros, there is a lot of game involved. I suppose one can make generalizations about a city, but I think that would have limited use. Some guys are also good screeners as well as good communicators.[/QUOTE]I totally agree with you, but I also agree with Akinono that this would be a useful piece of information. Maybe we can just generalize it to High Success, Medium Success, Low Success.

For example, it takes a ton of time to find a gem in SF (Low Success) especially given the SD competition and the many WGs on there, but pretty easy to find a nice SB in Portland and Las Vegas (High Success).

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2504190]For example, it takes a ton of time to find a gem in SF (Low Success) especially given the SD competition and the many WGs on there, but pretty easy to find a nice SB in Portland and Las Vegas (High Success).[/QUOTE]That could work if it's not so specific.

San Francisco a very good example. It kind of hit me like a V8 (if one knows this old commercial). Many affluent tech guys with laboring social skills being hustled by more worldly SBs. Of course the more you climb the money ladder, the more you would expect SBs to be motivated.

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2504179]Thanks for sharing. Those are good experiences. I do remember your Diva reports. What drives your decision to pick Diva or SA girls when in London? I figured you liked Diva so much that you would probably go with them all the time when visiting in London, so perhaps SA is a change up? Its kinda like when in Frankfurt or NRW, I will hardly bother w / SA because my entire schedule in those places is around visiting FKKs.[/QUOTE]Well I started with SA in London with the Coluombianas due to a unique situation. I'the flown Valentina from Buenos Aires to London after being smitten with her in BA and she dumped me on arrival! Fuck me. So I went to drown myself in Diva girls. And did. I did 9 diva visits including the legendary Melty. Meanwhile I happened upon two civvies that I wooed a bit but did not end up in the sack. One, Pamela, I would take to dinner and dancing but she was not DTF so I'the go have a Diva girl. So my last night I was determined to have the best of both worlds. An awesome date that leads to sex. And the Colombianas delivered in spades!

Next time I decided I liked the mix and match and was only in London one day. So I saw a Diva girl, an SA girl, and an Olina girl. It was quite the day!

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2504231]Well I started with SA in London with the Coluombianas due to a unique situation. I'the flown Valentina from Buenos Aires to London after being smitten with her in BA and she dumped me on arrival! Fuck me. So I went to drown myself in Diva girls. And did. I did 9 diva visits including the legendary Melty. Meanwhile I happened upon two civvies that I wooed a bit but did not end up in the sack. One, Pamela, I would take to dinner and dancing but she was not DTF so I'the go have a Diva girl. So my last night I was determined to have the best of both worlds. An awesome date that leads to sex. And the Colombianas delivered in spades!

Next time I decided I liked the mix and match and was only in London one day. So I saw a Diva girl, an SA girl, and an Olina girl. It was quite the day![/QUOTE]Not sure I ever posted this experience. I cut out all the Diva girls and civvy dates to stay on topic. Here's the SA part.

For my final night I've decided even tho I love going dancing with Pam and having sex with an escort before or after, I really want the full package where the dancing LEADS TO the bedroom. So I start hitting Seeking Arrangement hard, actually starting in the Uber after I leave Pam. Right after I arrive at my hotel that night I hit upon a Colombian hottie but I don't hear back till she texts me back around 3 am.

I know this is a super risky move going to SA since it's hit or miss, and it could be a fail at the dinner table or in the room but I want to take the risk to have the reward of a blowout final night. And (spoiler alert!) a blowout it is.

So I explore all the options (limited) but manage to engage Tana (the Colombiana) in a dialogue that leads to pay dirt. She agrees to see me for 350 for 4-5 hrs of unrushed fun. Dinner dancing and room time. This seems high based on my SA experience to date, but my alternative had been Noleta at straight up Diva pricing of 450 for what would have to be a rushed 3 hours (or 600 for 4 hours yikes!) so I am Ok with her price.

Well the price turns out to be 1/2 off because she says it's her friends birthday and can she come too? At first I think she is trying to upsell me to 700 but she confirms no price change. A two for one deal. Two girls for four hours for 350 . Now THATS a deal (in London) OK baby, it's on!

And I would say we have a top 5 "full experience" kind of night. They both show up at VietFood (where I am repeating) and Tana is clearly a solid 9+. She's a little slim for me, but her face and hair are boner-producing perfection. OMG way prettier than her pics. And Liliana not as much. A 7 without her glasses and a six with them. But what a lovely sweet girl and she loves to dance. And way more affectionate than Tana holding hands and snuggling up against me at various points. They are a great team Tana brings the optics and Liliana brings the GFE. LOL.

We have a nice intro dinner where I teach them how to use chopsticks and they do quite well. I am a pretty good dinner companion and we fall into it effortlessly. Just three old friends having dinner. Great fun and great food. Honestly the best I've eaten in ten years.

We have a grand time at Bar Soho and GAY but we are now 2. 5 hours in and Tana suggests we go to the room, which is a good idea because we'll be 3 hours in by the time we reach the hotel. Possibly the highlight of the whole thing is the pedal cab ride home! (They have these bicycle powered rickshaws throughout Soho). We have cracked a bottle of wine and are drinking it from the bottle and they are cranking the Colombian tunes and singing along. Me as the creamy filling between the two hotties. OMG the funnest thing.

The sex is great but in a funny way. We're cuddling on the bed, Tana in just her thong (wow!) and Liliana fully clothed. I don't think much about this till later but that was odd for Liliana to stay clothed. She's got a slight baby pooch so she may not want to be naked with Tana the slim goddess right beside her. Who knows? It's ok because Liliana is the BBBJ specialist (fully clothed) as Tana is the optics dancing now fully naked above me.

Eventually Tana fully engages for the sex part and it's quite great. She is soooo fucking beautiful and if you like slim, her body is a perfect ten. Looking at her eyes and smile while you fuck her in mish is legendary. And rare excellent pussy feel in all three positions did lazy dog rather than traditional. Oh and she added in some RCG and ACG for variety. In the end a BJHJ combo finish with Liliana strong on BLS (first of the week!) and Tana alternately kissing me deeply and just looking at me super sexy, enjoying me enjoying Lilianas excellent BBBJ (OWO). OMG did I say Tana was beautiful? That girl is dynamite.

A good 20 minute cuddle in a Liliana, Steve, Tana sandwich after climax. Sweet girls and 4 hours in total. I was completely and deeply satisfied.

And so that concludes the London adventures of Steve. I came expecting to fuck one girl meaningfully and repeatedly the entire week. Instead I partied with random girls and had meaningless sex over and over again. There are worse things!

PS. I know there are always concerns about being robbed or scammed and we should be vigilant. But I accidentally left and open envelope with over $2000 in various currencies on the bedside table while I was showering afterwards. They didnt touch a penny. Sweethearts.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2504190]For example, it takes a ton of time to find a gem in SF (Low Success) especially given the SD competition and the many WGs on there, but pretty easy to find a nice SB in Portland and Las Vegas (High Success).[/QUOTE]How would you rate LA in terms of success rate? This has piqued my interest: a large metropolis with a high amount of pros means a decline in the success rate of scoring a gem and thus considerable more effort. This however does not apply to Vegas even though it should be full of pros. I wonder how LA compares in all of this.

[QUOTE=Ailton;2503852]

Your numbers are great! Thank you for that addition. Am I right to assume that these numbers should apply to the whole of NL?

[/QUOTE]It differs. I've talked and met from the major cities. But also from the smaller towns. The more serious ones will sit around this number.

The less serious ones or gold diggers will be far above it.

[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2504217]That could work if it's not so specific.

San Francisco a very good example. It kind of hit me like a V8 (if one knows this old commercial). Many affluent tech guys with laboring social skills being hustled by more worldly SBs. Of course the more you climb the money ladder, the more you would expect SBs to be motivated.[/QUOTE]I always wondered why many of the hottest girls from boonies in Nebraska, or Mississippi or Idaho etc would not move to San Fran to find a rich, nerdy dude as opposed to going to LA in search of a movie career that never happens and half of them end up in porn or into some hourly wage waitress gigs. The bay area is such a good pond to catch rich, nerdy, easy fish if you are a cute 22 year old blonde LOL.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2504234]Not sure I ever posted this experience. I cut out all the Diva girls and civvy dates to stay on topic. Here's the SA part.

For my final night I've decided even tho I love going dancing with Pam and having sex with an escort before or after, I really want the full package where the dancing LEADS TO the bedroom. So I start hitting Seeking Arrangement hard, actually starting in the Uber after I leave Pam. Right after I arrive at my hotel that night I hit upon a Colombian hottie but I don't hear back till she texts me back around 3 am.

I know this is a super risky move going to SA since it's hit or miss, and it could be a fail at the dinner table or in the room but I want to take the risk to have the reward of a blowout final night. And (spoiler alert!) a blowout it is.

So I explore all the options (limited) but manage to engage Tana (the Colombiana) in a dialogue that leads to pay dirt. She agrees to see me for 350 for 4-5 hrs of unrushed fun. Dinner dancing and room time. This seems high based on my SA experience to date, but my alternative had been Noleta at straight up Diva pricing of 450 for what would have to be a rushed 3 hours (or 600 for 4 hours yikes!) so I am Ok with her price.

Well the price turns out to be 1/2 off because she says it's her friends birthday and can she come too? At first I think she is trying to upsell me to 700 but she confirms no price change. A two for one deal. Two girls for four hours for 350 . Now THATS a deal (in London) OK baby, it's on!..[/QUOTE]Wow, you had an good experience with Colombians, I can not say the same. When I find out they are Colombian, in MTY I usually run for the hills now. They usually think they are way hotter then what they actually are and there attitudes, demands are worse. Love the Mexican girls, no more Colombians for me.

Arrive late Thursday after major drama at the border, I learned a valuable lesson, checks count as cash, I will save the details for another day. I meet a new girl from SA, we have a couple drinks goes well she is a solid 6. 5-7, I try to get her to go up to the room after 30 minutes she say no, one more drink. After 90 minutes she wants to go, but one of my regular is on the way the is 7-7.5, so I tell her we can meet in the morning. She shows up 10:30 am, one hour of sex, she total freak. Hopefully we are having a threesome, we will see. The regular shows up at 10:30, great night, we have 2 sessions.

The trip off to a good start more details to follow.

Not directly related to this thread, I got a kill two birds with one stone idea and now I have a Portuguese tutor who is a model from Brazil. She is basically a teenager so I am just enjoying the lessons and the view, nothing sexual going on and I don't plan to ruin it. With makeup on, she is a 10 easy but I meet her without makeup, in street or gym clothes she is still beautiful but in a different way. LOL. I think she has a lot of free time before her next assignment and that is why she became my tutor. I don't want to write too much right now as it is still ongoing. Her fee for the lesson is reasonable. She is still able to move between countries currently so I think she must be in demand to be able to do that, probably make significant amount of money too but I just treat her like a normal person and never ask her anything outside the scope of the lesson. Everything I know about her is thru the lesson when she try to teach me the language, like how to introduce oneself. I basically think she is out of my league. Haha.

[QUOTE=Nounce;2504519]Not directly related to this thread, I got a kill two birds with one stone idea and now I have a Portuguese tutor who is a model from Brazil. She is basically a teenager so I am just enjoying the lessons and the view, nothing sexual going on and I don't plan to ruin it. With makeup on, she is a 10 easy but I meet her without makeup, in street or gym clothes she is still beautiful but in a different way. LOL. I think she has a lot of free time before her next assignment and that is why she became my tutor. I don't want to write too much right now as it is still ongoing. Her fee for the lesson is reasonable. She is still able to move between countries currently so I think she must be in demand to be able to do that, probably make significant amount of money too but I just treat her like a normal person and never ask her anything outside the scope of the lesson. Everything I know about her is thru the lesson when she try to teach me the language, like how to introduce oneself. I basically think she is out of my league. Haha.[/QUOTE]If good tutors are plentiful, then I suggest you give her a nice gift next time, just to show your appreciation. But the gift also signals your willingness to spoil her. Then, later that night, text her that you like her, and see what happens. If she says she likes you too, then you're golden. If not, then kill the sting with some whisky and move on. I think you have everything to gain and nothing to lose, but only if good tutors are plentiful. Good luck.

[QUOTE=Ailton;2504377]How would you rate LA in terms of success rate? This has piqued my interest: a large metropolis with a high amount of pros means a decline in the success rate of scoring a gem and thus considerable more effort. This however does not apply to Vegas even though it should be full of pros. I wonder how LA compares in all of this.[/QUOTE]I hate LA, so I haven't been there in years. So, I have no idea. Sorry, man.

[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2504217]That could work if it's not so specific.

San Francisco a very good example. It kind of hit me like a V8 (if one knows this old commercial). Many affluent tech guys with laboring social skills being hustled by more worldly SBs. Of course the more you climb the money ladder, the more you would expect SBs to be motivated.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2504410]I always wondered why many of the hottest girls from boonies in Nebraska, or Mississippi or Idaho etc would not move to San Fran to find a rich, nerdy dude as opposed to going to LA in search of a movie career that never happens and half of them end up in porn or into some hourly wage waitress gigs. The bay area is such a good pond to catch rich, nerdy, easy fish if you are a cute 22 year old blonde LOL.[/QUOTE]

I know you guys will say that I am generalizing, but SF is my second home (even right now), and so I know the SA market in SF very, very well. I met almost 100 SBs in SF in person. Literally. I am not saying that I bagged them. I only hooked up with around 20. So, most were meet and greets. But I also chatted with hundreds more. Literally. And one common theme that arose from all of these chats and meetings is that the suddenly rich 25 year old tech nerd in SF is an absolute raging asshole to women. They treat women like objects that they feel automatically feel entitled to, and they think hot women just comes with their new found wealth. Many of the women told me they felt these nerds were seeking revenge for the many years that they got bullied by jocks, and got laughed at by girls. Like they have some kind of unhinged anger within them, and they are letting it out now. And so they treat SBs like crap, and the move on to the next SB and treat them like crap. In addition, I have also talked to many pros in SF too about the tech nerds. And they say that tech nerds are the worst because they are the biggest assholes and treat them the worst.

Here's another take, from the tech nerds' side. I know them very well. I work with them. I am friends with many, many of them. They are so sweet, so innocent, and so socially awkward. But yet, they have no respect for women. I don't know how many tech nerds have told me that the only woman they respect is their mom. Again, you will say this is a generalization. But consider the fact that ratio of male tech nerds to women tech nerds is probably over 100 to 1. The ratio of excellent male engineers to excellent female engineers is probably over 1000 to 1. Pretty much every male tech nerd that I know has told me that the one or two girls in their engineering or computer science class in college was, by far, the dumbest person in class. So, how can these tech nerds NOT look down on women? These tech nerds just pretty much think women exists as prizes for their pleasure and for their fun and to serve them, if they can succeed.

Interesting, right? I too was kind of surprised by this. So, let's not underestimate those nerds. I love these nerds, but I would NEVER want my sister or daughter to marry one. They are not Mark Zuckerberg. And I think that Zuckerberg will someday become a pussy hound too.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2504669]I hate LA, so I haven't been there in years. So, I have no idea. Sorry, man.[/QUOTE]Me too, one of the most over rated cities in the world. If I want to deal with bad attitudes and shitty service, I will go back to Houston, I can at least be paid a lot of money for all the extra stress and drama.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2504672]Interesting, right? I too was kind of surprised by this. So, let's not underestimate those nerds. I love these nerds, but I would NEVER want my sister or daughter to marry one. They are not Mark Zuckerberg. And I think that Zuckerberg will someday become a pussy hound too.[/QUOTE]Very interesting post. We do know Mark Zuckerberg was a jerk to women. Let's face it. He's not exactly charming and handsome even with tens of billions.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2504234]Not sure I ever posted this experience. I cut out all the Diva girls and civvy dates to stay on topic. Here's the SA part.

For my final night I've decided even tho I love going dancing with Pam and having sex with an escort before or after, I really want the full package where the dancing LEADS TO the bedroom. So I start hitting Seeking Arrangement hard, actually starting in the Uber after I leave Pam. Right after I arrive at my hotel that night I hit upon a Colombian hottie but I don't hear back till she texts me back around 3 am......[/QUOTE]Jeez, man, the only bad part about an experience like that is you might have to spend the rest of your life chasing it again. How in the hell do you top or match that?

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2504669]I hate LA, so I haven't been there in years. So, I have no idea. Sorry, man.[/QUOTE]With all respect, I've found that people who hate LA don't really know LA. Don't get me wrong. I don't love LA, and I live here. It's expensive and huge. But there really is something for everyone on account of its size. Beach cities, mountain communities, multiple urban centers, multiple suburbs, hipster areas, many ethnic areas, gay areas, ghettos of various ethnicity, posh areas of different stripes, college areas, and on and on. If someone hates LA, they probably are thinking of one type of LA, and it's large enough that there are really many LA's.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2504672]I know you guys will say that I am generalizing, but SF is my second home (even right now), and so I know the SA market in SF very, very well. I met almost 100 SBs in SF in person. Literally. I am not saying that I bagged them. I only hooked up with around 20. So, most were meet and greets. But I also chatted with hundreds more. Literally. And one common theme that arose from all of these chats and meetings is that the suddenly rich 25 year old tech nerd in SF is an absolute raging asshole to women. They treat women like objects that they feel automatically feel entitled to, and they think hot women just comes with their new found wealth. Many of the women told me they felt these nerds were seeking revenge for the many years that they got bullied by jocks, and got laughed at by girls. Like they have some kind of unhinged anger within them, and they are letting it out now. And so they treat SBs like crap, and the move on to the next SB and treat them like crap. In addition, I have also talked to many pros in SF too about the tech nerds. And they say that tech nerds are the worst because they are the biggest assholes and treat them the worst.

Here's another take, from the tech nerds' side. I know them very well. I work with them. I am friends with many, many of them. They are so sweet, so innocent, and so socially awkward. But yet, they have no respect for women. I don't know how many tech nerds have told me that the only woman they respect is their mom. Again, you will say this is a generalization. But consider the fact that ratio of male tech nerds to women tech nerds is probably over 100 to 1. The ratio of excellent male engineers to excellent female engineers is probably over 1000 to 1. Pretty much every male tech nerd that I know has told me that the one or two girls in their engineering or computer science class in college was, by far, the dumbest person in class. So, how can these tech nerds NOT look down on women? These tech nerds just pretty much think women exists as prizes for their pleasure and for their fun and to serve them, if they can succeed.

Interesting, right? I too was kind of surprised by this. So, let's not underestimate those nerds. I love these nerds, but I would NEVER want my sister or daughter to marry one. They are not Mark Zuckerberg. And I think that Zuckerberg will someday become a pussy hound too.[/QUOTE]Haha, that is funny LOL. Well, you have a point MW but let's be fair. Not all of them are the same. I worked in the Valley at the beginning of my career and some of them are still friends after more than 15 years. Super nice and smart, many are married now but yes, many are also unattached. BTW, not everyone became super wealthy. Many settled into regular life, long commutes, paying for houses that keep appreciating every single year no matter what. You are right about the gender ratio but even when I worked there, it was not as terrible as 100 to 1, more like 3 to 1 or 4 to 1 in my experience (sales departments are 50/50). Obviously, I would not know how any of these guys behaved w / SBs, although I can believe some of them seem awkward.

I did not say that LA is bad. I just said that I hated it. I would never say that a place is bad because that would be a gross simplification. I only said that I hated LA to provide context in my reply to another poster. I have no doubts that LA is a great city because so many people voluntarily live there and move there and stay there. So, I hope no one got offended.

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2504784]Haha, that is funny LOL. Well, you have a point MW but let's be fair. Not all of them are the same. I worked in the Valley at the beginning of my career and some of them are still friends after more than 15 years. Super nice and smart, many are married now but yes, many are also unattached. BTW, not everyone became super wealthy. Many settled into regular life, long commutes, paying for houses that keep appreciating every single year no matter what. You are right about the gender ratio but even when I worked there, it was not as terrible as 100 to 1, more like 3 to 1 or 4 to 1 in my experience (sales departments are 50/50). Obviously, I would not know how any of these guys behaved w / SBs, although I can believe some of them seem awkward.[/QUOTE]Pessimist, when many of us say stuff like "SBs are. " or "tech nerds are. ", we do not mean that it literally applies 100% of the time. We are just using hyperbole, man. I do not think that anyone thinks that anything we say applies to literally everyone and every case, but you keep pointing this out over and over again. It is just hyperbole, man. And it is an accepted form of speech that even the strictest grammarians and linguist and English scholars also accept as being okay. Also, another thing is that I am something of an applied statistician. In my line of work, if we can reliably find that "X" is so and so most of the time, then we call this a "generalized fact. " So, I guess I am guilty of carrying this over to my normal conversations. I say stuff like "everyone likes this restaurant" when I know that only my 5 friends like this restaurant, and according to the online reviews that only 97% of people like this restaurant. My statement that everyone likes this restaurant is both a hyperbole and a generalized fact, but it should not be taken literally.

And when we are talking about tech nerds, I assumed engineers and programmers. The ratio is around 100 to 1. At the firm that I work for in SF, in its history, it has had hundreds of male engineers and male programmers, and it has never had a female engineer or female programmer. Not a single one. When I lived in Beijing, when Google was still there, I was friends with one of the top execs. I went to some of their company events and parties. I think I saw two female engineers / programmers, out of several hundred engineers / programmers. And even then, one of the female engineers got reassigned because she was not a 10 x programmer like the males. This is why male tech nerds look down on women, and why they often treat women like crap in their dating relationships. And I never said that they all became super wealth, and I agree that most of them are super smart and very nice. In fact, I like tech nerds and I think most of them like me too. All that I was saying is that based on my convos with SBs and pros and even with non SBs and non-pros, in SF, they were nearly unanimous that rich tech nerds were a nightmare to date because these guys treated women like crap. Are there exceptions? Of course.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2504833]Pessimist, when many of us say stuff like "SBs are. " or "tech nerds are. ", we do not mean that it literally applies 100% of the time. We are just using hyperbole, man. I do not think that anyone thinks that anything we say applies to literally everyone and every case, but you keep pointing this out over and over again. It is just hyperbole, man. And it is an accepted form of speech that even the strictest grammarians and linguist and English scholars also accept as being okay. Also, another thing is that I am something of an applied statistician. In my line of work, if we can reliably find that "X" is so and so most of the time, then we call this a "generalized fact. " So, I guess I am guilty of carrying this over to my normal conversations. I say stuff like "everyone likes this restaurant" when I know that only my 5 friends like this restaurant, and according to the online reviews that only 97% of people like this restaurant. My statement that everyone likes this restaurant is both a hyperbole and a generalized fact, but it should not be taken literally.

And when we are talking about tech nerds, I assumed engineers and programmers. The ratio is around 100 to 1. At the firm that I work for in SF, in its history, it has had hundreds of male engineers and male programmers, and it has never had a female engineer or female programmer. Not a single one. When I lived in Beijing, when Google was still there, I was friends with one of the top execs. I went to some of their company events and parties. I think I saw two female engineers / programmers, out of several hundred engineers / programmers. And even then, one of the female engineers got reassigned because she was not a 10 x programmer like the males. This is why male tech nerds look down on women, and why they often treat women like crap in their dating relationships. And I never said that they all became super wealth, and I agree that most of them are super smart and very nice. In fact, I like tech nerds and I think most of them like me too. All that I was saying is that based on my convos with SBs and pros and even with non SBs and non-pros, in SF, they were nearly unanimous that rich tech nerds were a nightmare to date because these guys treated women like crap. Are there exceptions? Of course.[/QUOTE]I will hop on the "I hate LA" train. I'm not talking Newport Beach or Malibu or all that sexy stuff. I'm talking core LA with more strip malls per mile than anywhere on earth. It's just 30 miles of crappy little strip malls at 2 miles per hour. Ridiculous traffic. Basically nothing to like. Least favorite city in the USA.

The SA scene is OK IMO. Had one beautiful Latina with dinner at Penthouse in Malibu. My second SA ever and I let her get away with cold feet over me being married. Could have totally closed the deal if I knew what I know now. Was able to quickly book replacements at $300 for a slightly chubby BBBJ queen. And $400 for a super cute mixed race hottie. Literally like booking them for later that night while having dinner with colleagues. LOL.

On the tech nerds things I generalize more as follows:

Men in their twenties are like children and treat women like objects.

Men who are young and have lots of money either inherited it (lazy) or earned it by working too hard (too driven).

And this is why us old dudes are awesome! We have learned to appreciate women and we have money because we earned it over time.

Least that's my take!

The thing I hate about LA is the sprawl. I was in Santa Monica for a brief time and when you drove to Vegas it would take nearly two hours just to get to HWY15. It is just endless. However, as far as SBs go, perhaps you should your search extend beyond LA, Malibu, Newport beach etc and look into the inland empire. I suspect many of the potential SBs are Latino and Black and if you are OK with that, you might get good deals. I personally don't mind young Latinas, have had a few of those as SBs. You might get better deals than in LA, western suburbs, or the beach towns. Just a thought.

Let me say two things in response to your two points, which I very much agree with.

I have made a career out of something as simple as pointing out the difference between population distributions and the binary way most people think the world works. Basic social science. Agree with you.

And, not to get too political, but the dynamic you are referring to in tech firms is so obnoxious. Back to population distributions, men will reliably occupy the upper end of the bell curve where the top programmers reside (say, google engineers). That is not in any a judgment of women. It's a reliably produced fact that goes down to proclivities by gender. (That's not to say every top engineer is a male, a point you will understand well). But in our world, today, to notice that fact is to be accused of misogyny. We are told the shortage of women in tech is evidence of male privilege, and we ought to repent for that. Meanwhile, most of us who understand social science fundamentals quietly roll our eyes and just try to stay out of trouble with HR.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2504833]Pessimist, when many of us say stuff like "SBs are. " or "tech nerds are. ", we do not mean that it literally applies 100% of the time. We are just using hyperbole, man. I do not think that anyone thinks that anything we say applies to literally everyone and every case, but you keep pointing this out over and over again. It is just hyperbole, man. And it is an accepted form of speech that even the strictest grammarians and linguist and English scholars also accept as being okay. Also, another thing is that I am something of an applied statistician. In my line of work, if we can reliably find that "X" is so and so most of the time, then we call this a "generalized fact. " So, I guess I am guilty of carrying this over to my normal conversations. I say stuff like "everyone likes this restaurant" when I know that only my 5 friends like this restaurant, and according to the online reviews that only 97% of people like this restaurant. My statement that everyone likes this restaurant is both a hyperbole and a generalized fact, but it should not be taken literally.

And when we are talking about tech nerds, I assumed engineers and programmers. The ratio is around 100 to 1. At the firm that I work for in SF, in its history, it has had hundreds of male engineers and male programmers, and it has never had a female engineer or female programmer. Not a single one. When I lived in Beijing, when Google was still there, I was friends with one of the top execs. I went to some of their company events and parties. I think I saw two female engineers / programmers, out of several hundred engineers / programmers. And even then, one of the female engineers got reassigned because she was not a 10 x programmer like the males. This is why male tech nerds look down on women, and why they often treat women like crap in their dating relationships. And I never said that they all became super wealth, and I agree that most of them are super smart and very nice. In fact, I like tech nerds and I think most of them like me too. All that I was saying is that based on my convos with SBs and pros and even with non SBs and non-pros, in SF, they were nearly unanimous that rich tech nerds were a nightmare to date because these guys treated women like crap. Are there exceptions? Of course.[/QUOTE]That is fine; if you say we should look past hyperbole and generalizations, I am quite OK with it. My experience is a little different from yours, that's all. Even 15+ years ago, when I worked at tech firms in the valley there were more than 1 or 2 women per men. In my experience, at that time it was more like 20%. In sales, which is just as important as engineering for software companies, the ratio was close to 40%. Sales people at the SW firms I worked at got paid tremendous amounts; with a reasonable quota and success in meeting it, $400 K was easily doable. Also, most of those people had stable family life and just lived normal boring lives. As I said, the main concern for 90% of the people was work, stock options, commute and quality of life, buying a reasonably priced house. Anyway, I don't think we are disagreeing; probably saying the same thing in a different way. I don't have any experience in China, so I will defer to you on that side. Cheers.

I need advice. I have 2 SBs. One is on a $1200 monthly allowance. Another is on a $500 monthly allowance (but she is hinting of going to PPM). However, I haven't seen either recently. The first one went back home to tend to some personal matters. I haven't seen her in almost 2 weeks. The other one lives just outside of Shanghai, but she recently accepted a full time job. I haven't seen her in 3 weeks. I guess with the latter, I will just convert her to PPM. However, what should I do with the former? I am thinking about delaying her next monthly installment payment date, moving it from the last week of the month to the first or second week of next month, and permanently keeping it this way. Am I being cheap and will she call me out on it? Or, should I just bite the bullet and pay her the regular monthly rate, even though I barely saw her this month? I guess this is another downside the monthly arrangement. Maybe monthly arrangements never last long. Anyone have a monthly arrangement that lasted for many months, like at least 6 months? TIA.

[QUOTE=AmericanPi;2505080]men will reliably occupy the upper end of the bell curve where the top programmers reside (say, google engineers). That is not in any a judgment of women. It's a reliably produced fact that goes down to proclivities by gender. (That's not to say every top engineer is a male, a point you will understand well). But in our world, today, to notice that fact is to be accused of misogyny. We are told the shortage of women in tech is evidence of male privilege, and we ought to repent for that. Meanwhile, most of us who understand social science fundamentals quietly roll our eyes and just try to stay out of trouble with HR.[/QUOTE]Yep, we see eye to eye on this.

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2505114]That is fine; if you say we should look past hyperbole and generalizations, I am quite OK with it. My experience is a little different from yours, that's all. Even 15+ years ago, when I worked at tech firms in the valley there were more than 1 or 2 women per men. In my experience, at that time it was more like 20%. In sales, which is just as important as engineering for software companies, the ratio was close to 40%. Sales people at the SW firms I worked at got paid tremendous amounts; with a reasonable quota and success in meeting it, $400 K was easily doable. Also, most of those people had stable family life and just lived normal boring lives. As I said, the main concern for 90% of the people was work, stock options, commute and quality of life, buying a reasonably priced house. Anyway, I don't think we are disagreeing; probably saying the same thing in a different way. I don't have any experience in China, so I will defer to you on that side. Cheers.[/QUOTE]Sounds good. I actually appreciate the precision with which your express your opinions. But when everyone else is making huge generalizations, maybe you can let it go sometimes, hahahaha. Thanks for hanging out with us in this thread.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2505321]I need advice. I have 2 SBs. One is on a $1200 monthly allowance. Another is on a $500 monthly allowance (but she is hinting of going to PPM). However, I haven't seen either recently. The first one went back home to tend to some personal matters. I haven't seen her in almost 2 weeks.[/QUOTE]For this one I would be saying "I'll give you the cash when I see you back here".

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2505321]I need advice. I have 2 SBs. One is on a $1200 monthly allowance. Another is on a $500 monthly allowance (but she is hinting of going to PPM). However, I haven't seen either recently. The first one went back home to tend to some personal matters. I haven't seen her in almost 2 weeks. The other one lives just outside of Shanghai, but she recently accepted a full time job. I haven't seen her in 3 weeks. I guess with the latter, I will just convert her to PPM. However, what should I do with the former? I am thinking about delaying her next monthly installment payment date, moving it from the last week of the month to the first or second week of next month, and permanently keeping it this way. Am I being cheap and will she call me out on it? Or, should I just bite the bullet and pay her the regular monthly rate, even though I barely saw her this month? I guess this is another downside the monthly arrangement. Maybe monthly arrangements never last long. Anyone have a monthly arrangement that lasted for many months, like at least 6 months? TIA.

Yep, we see eye to eye on this.

Sounds good. I actually appreciate the precision with which your express your opinions. But when everyone else is making huge generalizations, maybe you can let it go sometimes, hahahaha. Thanks for hanging out with us in this thread.[/QUOTE]This is why I do not do monthly arrangements, this always happens. Stick with PPM, maybe at the 3-6 month period I would might be willing to change my mind, but no need to change something that is working. Keep up the great posts.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2505321]I need advice. I have 2 SBs. One is on a $1200 monthly allowance. Another is on a $500 monthly allowance (but she is hinting of going to PPM). However, I haven't seen either recently. The first one went back home to tend to some personal matters. I haven't seen her in almost 2 weeks. The other one lives just outside of Shanghai, but she recently accepted a full time job. I haven't seen her in 3 weeks. I guess with the latter, I will just convert her to PPM. However, what should I do with the former? I am thinking about delaying her next monthly installment payment date, moving it from the last week of the month to the first or second week of next month, and permanently keeping it this way. Am I being cheap and will she call me out on it? Or, should I just bite the bullet and pay her the regular monthly rate, even though I barely saw her this month? .[/QUOTE]First, I would just tell the second one that PPM will work for you, if I had to guess, she is stable now and is looking for a way to get out of the "have to see you", and just call when she finds out the job doesn't quite meet her financial needs. This is her "saving face" and telling herself she is not really a "xiao san".

For the other one, if you could get paid for doing nothing, even for a few months with no real consequences, what would you do? If she really is at home her expenses have gone WAY down and she doesn't need access to cash anymore and I suspect that finding a way to live up to her end of the bargain from home is problematic. I have some SA experience in Asia, including China, with monthly arrangements and it was ALL bad financially. The sex was really good, especially when she wanted me to pay her for the two months, one she didn't show at all and the one she promised would be different. That was a great weekend, up until she realized as far as I was concerned she had already been paid for the weekend.

I mean this in the nicest possible way, because I had feelings for this girl, but I wouldn't give her a single red Mao, until I could see the "baby batter" dripping from her anal orifice. But that's just me.

I wish I had some good advice, had similar problem. Layla and I were regular and went monthly. Then she went to Vegas for two weeks and I made it clear that I had "advanced" her money but we needed to settle up. She acknowledged this but when the rubber meets the road the only way to get her back out was forgive the "debt" and start going PPM to entice her back to the game.

I know this sounds lame but she's the only game in town. And honestly she was only charging $200 a meet but coulda charged $300. At least that's how I've rationalized it.

My last date (not Layla) was just a meet and greet but the kissing was spectacular. If it moves to the next level (looks like it will) she may displace Layla, because Layla isn't much on kissing and her BJ is marginal. I've found girls that love to kiss love to give head. So very hopeful.

So, I am killing in MTY, I usually pay between $150-200, but that is for multiple hours and sessions. Couple funny stories 1. Sunday I agree to meet a girl, for breakfast or coffee. She is cute, but short, totally dressed up. All Gucci out. She wants to go to breakfast I say let's just go to Starbucks, I did not want to watch her eat eggs then have sex, not my thing. She is 6, even all dressed up. We get there she proceeds to wiping down have the store with disinfected. She calms down. Keeps talking about eggs. Obvious she was starting to like me, but I was on the fence, $150 was normally what I would pay for a 6, but I said $200. She had other ideas gifts, no sex, Kiev style. So, I had another meeting scheduled with another girl, I told her I had to go, she tries to get me to go into a store, but I said no. Afterwards I get this text to meet her to buy a gift. Then I send the text about I am only interested in sex. She claims that it is normal to go to dinner and buy gifts, sex come later. I said no way.

Second girl, yesterday arrive very short, I would pay $150 tops, if that. She is cute, but I could probably have that type of girl for free. Anyway she tries to go to a nice Rest. , but I said no, we go to PF Changs, she is all over the map, but it was Thanksgiving so I will play along. Finally the topic come up about money. I say $150, she come back at $350, I politely say no way, it will never happen. She also tells me that guys in Mexico are paying just to have dinner with girls, I laugh and say it is very rare, if at all. Anyway I block her crazy ass. $350 in MTY would be like $600 in the states. She is barely a 6, if that.

I think girls that are seeking gifts are much more high maintenance, but this is my experience.

Many great stories to come over the last 3 trips. Monday was back to back Anal with 2 different girls! With a real Model and another one of my regulars, she is very cute, some would rate here between 6.5-7.5, she is a little thick for me, but not fat, the Colombian guys would love here, both are 2 of the sweeties girls you will ever meet. Love MTY and SA.

On SA you have to take the good with the bad. I never like to turn girls away, but I have my limits. First girl show up in Sweat Suite, well you better be smoking hot to pull that off. Bad news she was about 30 pounds overweight I said Hello, and goodbye. No Uber money. Second girls show up 1 hour late, I am cool with 30 minutes, but then her picture does not match, she is 5'1/. I gave Uber money and said goodbye, plus she want $200, hell no! $100 tops, I need to face time.

Good news the 3 Road girls shows up 5'8" smoking hot. We go have dinner, no money exchange, because she is on her period, but great time, drinks and dinner. We to agree to meet Monday evening. Smoking hot, totally humble.

Well my recent second date with Sarah proves two things for certain:

1. The guys that say all SA girls are hookers are full of shit. We already knew this but man did Sarah make it obvious that these fresh newbies can be a blast.

2. What you might give up a bit on optics is paid back double in the bedroom. A girl who is hungry for cock is a girl that is worth your time.

Sarah was brand new to SA. Basically did it on a lark coming off a failed LTR. She was super shy about meeting up two weeks ago. I got her to go by saying I guarantee we will stop at a kiss. Nothing more. Well we had that kiss and it was super passionate. I'm convinced that without it we would not have had a second date. I might have convinced myself not to follow up with her (she's overweight) and she would likely have had second thoughts.

Instead we were both fired up for date 2 which was the most passionate sex I've had in years! OMG. Her sexual neediness and appetite was such a turn on! And sooooo fun to show a girl who has had boring vanilla sex with just a couple guys what the real deal can be like. She's never had her gspot fingered. Never done 69. Never done CIM.

We corrected all those errors and wow it was really something. A sloppy wet whirlwind of BJ, kissing, FIV, mish, cowgirl, DATY and more. Two rounds with satisfying climax in mish and CIM round two. Wow. Will repeat.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2506812]Well my recent second date with Sarah proves two things for certain:

1. The guys that say all SA girls are hookers are full of shit. We already knew this but man did Sarah make it obvious that these fresh newbies can be a blast. [/QUOTE]Yes, this all SA women are hookers claim is the epitome of sour grapes. You have cheap assholes who do not want to stick $100 a month into the coffers of SA management. Instead of being honest, they then go off and say their being cheap is justified because all the women are working girls, and they can get them more cheaply.

I think all women but especially those without much money are hookers to some extent. That joke about would you have sex with me for a million dollars comes to mind.

In my area in the USA, there are 400 hookers available on P411 and there are 10,000+ women on seeking within 25 miles of my house. What that tells me is that very few women want to be seen as hookers who will give it up for any guy with money, but there are tons of women willing to give up with the right guy for money. Getting a SA girl into bed in some but not all cases is a function not just of money but of game.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2506812]Instead we were both fired up for date 2 which was the most passionate sex I've had in years! OMG. Her sexual neediness and appetite was such a turn on! And sooooo fun to show a girl who has had boring vanilla sex with just a couple guys what the real deal can be like. She's never had her gspot fingered. Never done 69. Never done CIM.[/QUOTE]I am headed to Colombia next week. I will be with three women there that tell me that they have not been with other men, and they act like they have not been with other men.

I am also meeting new ones. I wanted to dip in and not settle for what I had and am going to meet two other women, both models, and one is a model and actress. Why are they on SA? Both have seen their work go to nothing.

I got to talking openly with one. She told me that she has not had sex in a year and got out of a relationship two years ago.

With Covid, the best women are available but they are not going to be alone for long. I have not been to Mexico City since Colombia opened up, but the best looking one I met there is in the pictures below. This was in her bio on SA:

Miss Teen Venezuela World Star Model.

Miss Venezuela Caribbean international.

Modelo en la fashion week cartagena Colombia.

Actriz principal obra de teatro "PLAN be" - Venezuela.

Modelo e imagen de diversas marcas Rolex-World Golf Championships (Mexico), Nike (Chile), Forever21 (Panama), Chilevision (Chile), CMB (consejo mundial de boxeo), Porsche (Panama), F1 (Gran premio de Mexico 2017) entre muchas otras.

She had just gotten out of a seven year relationship. She also was just out of work due to Covid. These two events are what made her become available on SA.

You know the term Instagram influencer? I have seen celebrities get huge numbers of views and likes, but she has 200,000 followers and every video she does has tens of thousands of likes. I told her that she could increase her numbers by buying followers with money and she would not have it.

Anyway, I meet her. Name is Gaby. Gaby is even prettier in real life than her pictures. Eventually, we get it on, and she amazingly is good in bed. I knew that if I did not give this woman a ton of support and lock her down, I would lose her. I might not in a city with as many beauties as Bogota or Sao Paulo, but she was top 0.01% in Mexico City, and Mexico City has a lot more money than other cities. She was a 10 in anyone's book.

She got better about responding to my texts. Then she just stopped. Finally she told me that she met someone. I saw from her Instagram videos that she hooked up with a guy who moved her into his place, and she was living it up on the beach in Cozumel. Given that she is Venezuelan and having to totally support her family, I can only be happy for her, and she looks happy.

As for why I did not lock her down, the truth is that I have women who are better lovers and who are close to her in looks. I have a lawyer in Mexico City, who may not be quite as pretty, but I found to be even more striking. In Colombia, I have one beauty queen winner and had one a few months ago. The best woman I have is the best lover I have had in decades and while she may not be a 10 in looks, she is a 10 in almost every other way and is determined to ask for as little money as possible. She calls or texts me every night. I could ask her for a kidney and she would probably give it to me.

One of the parts people do not get is loyalty. Gaby was a straight shooter and honest. If I had supported her and officially cemented our relationship, helped her meet her financial needs, and made her my novia, she would not have looked at another guy. How do I know that? I could just tell. Also, when I asked to hang out with her when I came back to Mexico City, she said no she is in a relationship now.

There is no way that you get that kind of loyalty from a hooker, no fucking way. As pretty as Gaby is, she is an even better person. Like the best women, she is not just lying on her back making money. She just needed some help in these tough times.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2506850]Yes, this all SA women are hookers claim is the epitome of sour grapes. You have cheap assholes who do not want to stick $100 a month into the coffers of SA management. Instead of being honest, they then go off and say their being cheap is justified because all the women are working girls, and they can get them more cheaply.

I think all women but especially those without much money are hookers to some extent. That joke about would you have sex with me for a million dollars comes to mind.

In my area in the USA, there are 400 hookers available on P411 and there are 10,000+ women on seeking within 25 miles of my house. What that tells me is that very few women want to be seen as hookers who will give it up for any guy with money, but there are tons of women willing to give up with the right guy for money. Getting a SA girl into bed in some but not all cases is a function not just of money but of game.

I am headed to Colombia next week. I will be with three women there that tell me that they have not been with other men, and they act like they have not been with other men.

I am also meeting new ones. I wanted to dip in and not settle for what I had and am going to meet two other women, both models, and one is a model and actress. Why are they on SA? Both have seen their work go to nothing.[/QUOTE]Awesome post. The loyalty part, in Latin America and Europe is way different, then American Chicks. The girls I am meeting in MTY are just incredible inside and out. So different then American women.

Honestly I think we are all prostitutes, some get paid more, other less. Some use different word, but everything always boils down to money. I honestly think SA is more honest, in some ways then traditional Relationships, but that is just me.

I am glad you are having good luck in Colombia, I was not a fan at all of MDE, so I happy that you are having success there.

Saturday, I meet with a regular from SA, in the morning great session. She just got New Tits, looks amazing, but she is still in pain. Great session. My next meeting cancelled. 3rd meeting, shows up, she is okay, but not my type, but I wanted to meet her. One of her first question was do I believe in God. I say, yes, common in Mexico to be asked this question. But it becomes pretty apparent she is looking for a relationship. We have some small talk, nice, but again not my type even for free. Then she claims that she thinks SA is a site for older guys seeking traditional relationships with younger women. I tell her the truth about the site and I looking for a sexual arrangement. I guess she thought she could charm me. We were about 90 minutes in and I asked for the check, she about started crying, I felt terrible, but I told her we were just too different. I felt bad, but I had another meeting.

Missed the text confirming the next meeting, then 4th meeting, I was stood up at the Restaurant. You have to take the good, with the bad on SA. I was on serious hot streak, but reality can bite you in the Ass. I think I need to Focus more on my model / slash amateur porn star, she is amazing, I real do not want to screw it up.

Also, I definitely need to either do Facetime or Viedeo Chat moving forward. I wasted a lot of time this week.

SB#1 went back to her hometown to take care of some things. We were texting every day, but one day, I was busy and I didn't check my cell phone all afternoon. Man, there were like a dozen messages on there from her. I finally texted back, and wow she was fucking furious. She felt blown off. I told her that I didn't check my phone all afternoon because I was busy (the truth), and she called me a liar because she said it is impossible for someone to not look at their phone all the time and she asked me if I had another GF. I told that only young people look at their phones all day. And then she said she liked me but that she cannot do this anymore. She said that she never feels like she knows what is going on with me and with my life. So then she blocked me. Wow. We have been together for about 3 months now, seeing each other about 1. 5 times every week, and spending all day together almost once a week. I feel a little bummed out. She had an amazing body, and her little vagina felt so good. She was also just great fun to hang out with. Made me laugh so much. She was actually the perfect GF / SB. I don't understand how it all suddenly went south. The other thing is that I am currently renting an apartment, and it was mostly to meet her at it. I haven't used that apartment in over 2 weeks now. Oh well. Tomorrow, I will see SB#2 (a married skinny MILF), so hopefully she takes my mind off of SB#1. But now I am in the market to replace SB#1, which will be very hard to do. She was like a real GF. I am sure there is a lesson for me to learn here, but I am not sure what it is.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2506812]The guys that say all SA girls are hookers are full of shit.

Sarah was brand new to SA.

I might have convinced myself not to follow up with her (she's overweight) and she would likely have had second thoughts. Instead we were both fired up for date 2 which was the most passionate sex I've had in years! [/QUOTE]Yep, I tried SA in over a dozen USA cities, maybe almost two dozen, and there are always some pros and some non-pros on SA. The ratio just depends on the city, but I seriously think most of them are non-pros.

And yeah, when a gal just joins SA, that is the time to strike. After about a couple of months, or maybe even after a month, they get jaded. So many of my successful SA relationships were with gals that I contacted literally on the first day that they joined SA. This meant that I had to check SA around the clock, every day. But when I was active on SA, that is what I did, and it pays off.

And I love overweight gals in the sack. Especially if they are young, and all that weight is in the right places. There is a gal that I see about once or twice a month. She works at a coffee shop. After I fucked her a few times, I stopped seeing her because she was nothing special. But lately, she tempts me by saying that she has a friend that wants to join. Anyway, I've had maybe a half dozen threesomes with this coffee girl by now. Each time, it was with a new friend. But recently, her friend was a big gal with huge natural jugs. Wow. I felt like I was swimming in jugs. Flesh everywhere. And because she was a little self conscience of her body, she tried to outperform. Amazing BBBJ, and so forth. And because she was young, the excess weight was still firm. Anyway, I digress.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2506995]SB#1 went back to her hometown to take care of some things. We were texting every day, but one day, I was busy and I didn't check my cell phone all afternoon. Man, there were like a dozen messages on there from her. I finally texted back, and wow she was fucking furious. She felt blown off. I told her that I didn't check my phone all afternoon because I was busy (the truth), and she called me a liar because she said it is impossible for someone to not look at their phone all the time and she asked me if I had another GF. I told that only young people look at their phones all day. And then she said she liked me but that she cannot do this anymore. She said that she never feels like she knows what is going on with me and with my life. So then she blocked me. Wow. We have been together for about 3 months now, seeing each other about 1. 5 times every week, and spending all day together almost once a week. I feel a little bummed out. She had an amazing body, and her little vagina felt so good. She was also just great fun to hang out with. Made me laugh so much. She was actually the perfect GF / SB. I don't understand how it all suddenly went south. The other thing is that I am currently renting an apartment, and it was mostly to meet her at it. I haven't used that apartment in over 2 weeks now. Oh well. Tomorrow, I will see SB#2 (a married skinny MILF), so hopefully she takes my mind off of SB#1. But now I am in the market to replace SB#1, which will be very hard to do. She was like a real GF. I am sure there is a lesson for me to learn here, but I am not sure what it is.[/QUOTE]Lots has been written on this but I think it was a posting on a Japan Nanpa site (of all places!) that said it most clearly. Men make decisions based on facts and reason. Women make decisions based on emotions. Because emotions change their decision making and behavior can change radically. So when fact based beings try to project "logical" behavior on emotional beings it's not going to make sense.

That's all that's going on here. Something changed her emotional state. And she made some bad decisions (flaming you, blocking u) in that emotional state. Nothing you did. Don't try to understand it. You can't project logic onto this situation.

And oh. As a friend once told me, there is always a better one around the corner. And u know what he’s right. Maybe u don’t hit her right away. But u see some great ones along the way and yes, there is even a better one out there. Just keep hitting it man and u will find it. And another after that!

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2506906]Saturday, I meet with a regular from SA, in the morning great session. She just got New Tits, looks amazing, but she is still in pain. Great session. My next meeting cancelled. 3rd meeting, shows up, she is okay, but not my type, but I wanted to meet her. One of her first question was do I believe in God. I say, yes, common in Mexico to be asked this question. But it becomes pretty apparent she is looking for a relationship. We have some small talk, nice, but again not my type even for free. Then she claims that she thinks SA is a site for older guys seeking traditional relationships with younger women. I tell her the truth about the site and I looking for a sexual arrangement. I guess she thought she could charm me. We were about 90 minutes in and I asked for the check, she about started crying, I felt terrible, but I told her we were just too different. I felt bad, but I had another meeting.

Missed the text confirming the next meeting, then 4th meeting, I was stood up at the Restaurant. You have to take the good, with the bad on SA. I was on serious hot streak, but reality can bite you in the Ass. I think I need to Focus more on my model / slash amateur porn star, she is amazing, I real do not want to screw it up.

Also, I definitely need to either do Facetime or Viedeo Chat moving forward. I wasted a lot of time this week.[/QUOTE]Update on the religious girl. I was really trying to be nice and respectful to her, but she was not my type. She claimed she did not know what, "Open Relationship", was. At the time, I kind of believed her and felt a little sorry for the girl. Again she was a 5 in my book, no way am I paying for a 5, nor will I sleep with a 5. She was slightly overweight. Here is the crazy part, I get a text sometime very early in the morning, asking if the offer was still valid. I promptly blocked her ass.

Either she was playing very dumb or lying, maybe both. This* does not work for me, especially if you are claiming to be this Religious person. The ups and downs of SA, more ups in MTY, but still crazy.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2506995]SB#1 went back to her hometown to take care of some things. We were texting every day, but one day, I was busy and I didn't check my cell phone all afternoon. Man, there were like a dozen messages on there from her. I finally texted back, and wow she was fucking furious. She felt blown off. I told her that I didn't check my phone all afternoon because I was busy (the truth), and she called me a liar because she said it is impossible for someone to not look at their phone all the time and she asked me if I had another GF. I told that only young people look at their phones all day. And then she said she liked me but that she cannot do this anymore. She said that she never feels like she knows what is going on with me and with my life. So then she blocked me. Wow. We have been together for about 3 months now, seeing each other about 1. 5 times every week, and spending all day together almost once a week. I feel a little bummed out. She had an amazing body, and her little vagina felt so good. She was also just great fun to hang out with. Made me laugh so much. She was actually the perfect GF / SB. I don't understand how it all suddenly went south. The other thing is that I am currently renting an apartment, and it was mostly to meet her at it. I haven't used that apartment in over 2 weeks now. Oh well. Tomorrow, I will see SB#2 (a married skinny MILF), so hopefully she takes my mind off of SB#1. But now I am in the market to replace SB#1, which will be very hard to do. She was like a real GF. I am sure there is a lesson for me to learn here, but I am not sure what it is.[/QUOTE]Normal, girls can change there mind at any time, especially SA girls. Remember most are also talking to other men. Especially in the states, and you got these guys promising the world. This is why I avoid monthly arrangements, are expectations go up, and it rarely works.

I noticed that some girls on SA say in their bio "Don't offer me money for sex", and at the same time say they like gifts, like to get pampered, travel etc. And clearly prefer that over money. Maybe this makes them feel they are not hookers, but rather GF, I don't know. Anyway, a "gift" has a vague meaning, it could be a $50 perfume or $2000 Gucci bag. So far I have tried to avoid girls asking for gifts, because it seems to me they are high maintenance and since they don't want to discuss money it makes it very difficult to negotiate and so many questions start to arise. Like, how often does she expect a gift? Every time we meet or once in awhile (similar to monthly allowance)? How much to spend on a gift / how much she expects me to spend? Obviously if my budget is, say, $150 PPM, I'm not buying a $1000 purse after me meet a couple of times. I have bought gifts before, but it always has been a bonus to a girl for her extra effort / performance and in addition to PPM, and always benefited me in some way, like sexy lingerie that I asked her to put on, or nice perfume, etc. Any thoughts on this topic?

[QUOTE=MiamiBoy1;2507049]I noticed that some girls on SA say in their bio "Don't offer me money for sex", and at the same time say they like gifts, like to get pampered, travel etc. And clearly prefer that over money. Maybe this makes them feel they are not hookers, but rather GF, I don't know. Anyway, a "gift" has a vague meaning, it could be a $50 perfume or $2000 Gucci bag. So far I have tried to avoid girls asking for gifts, because it seems to me they are high maintenance and since they don't want to discuss money it makes it very difficult to negotiate and so many questions start to arise. Like, how often does she expect a gift? Every time we meet or once in awhile (similar to monthly allowance)? How much to spend on a gift / how much she expects me to spend? Obviously if my budget is, say, $150 PPM, I'm not buying a $1000 purse after me meet a couple of times. I have bought gifts before, but it always has been a bonus to a girl for her extra effort / performance and in addition to PPM, and always benefited me in some way, like sexy lingerie that I asked her to put on, or nice perfume, etc. Any thoughts on this topic?[/QUOTE]I just wrote about this. I had 2 girls that wanted gifts, and they were totally high maintenance. One made it clear that there would be no sex, for awhile, I said no way.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2506995]I told her that I didn't check my phone all afternoon because I was busy (the truth), and she called me a liar because she said it is impossible for someone to not look at their phone all the time and she asked me if I had another GF. I told that only young people look at their phones all day. And then she said she liked me but that she cannot do this anymore. She said that she never feels like she knows what is going on with me and with my life. So then she blocked me. Wow. We have been together for about 3 months now, seeing each other about 1. 5 times every week, and spending all day together almost once a week. I feel a little bummed out. She had an amazing body, and her little vagina felt so good. She was also just great fun to hang out with. Made me laugh so much. She was actually the perfect GF / SB. I don't understand how it all suddenly went south. The other thing is that I am currently renting an apartment, and it was mostly to meet her at it. I haven't used that apartment in over 2 weeks now. Oh well. Tomorrow, I will see SB#2 (a married skinny MILF), so hopefully she takes my mind off of SB#1. But now I am in the market to replace SB#1, which will be very hard to do.[/QUOTE]MW,

Out of the blue, one of my Colombian chicas tells me after we have been together that she wants me to get STD testing which was weird. I get doing it before you are with someone. It was a pain in the ass and $200 but I do it and it is all negative. Fast forward to last week, and she is honest with me. She had previously showed me her STD tests but left out herpes. Last week, she says her ex BF gave her herpes.

It is typical femaleese to take things out another man who hurt her in no other way. I questioned why she and no other woman has ever asked me to be tested and why she strangely wanted it after we had been together. She fucked up trusting her ex and wanted to take it out on me. I am going to end things with her. It is not the herpes as much as the trust.

So when she says you are not being open for her. That is femaleese that she is not being open and is hiding something, which probably is that she is seeing another guy.

I was engaged to a Venezuelan woman. She had an Instagram page where she showed another guy as her boyfriend and blocked not just me but all my friends from seeing her site. She even got mad when I asked for her page. Well, I found it eventually. She broke up with me before I broke up with her, and it hurt. I had people tell me that she was a narcissist and I did not want to believe it. Well, let me tell you, she was one, and I was duped.

You have idiots on this forum telling you about how it is and how they are too smart to let anything happen to them. Well, she did a great job of hiding who she was for a long time, building up my ego, making me feel special, and fucking the shit out of me in a good way. After a certain point, she gave nothing and took more and more. I read the pattern of narcissistic breakups and did not believe I had fallen for this. Thing that people do not get is the first six months when you are in love with a narcissist it is like nothing else. You love and are loved like you never have before.

She really hurt me and did a number on my ego, and I wanted to punch back. I got to a lawyer who told me that I could sue her for breach of contract. Given that she had no money, I could have forced back to be by my side. When we broke up, she accepted no responsibility for anything and blamed me for everything. Even though she was cheating on me, she pretended to be the victim, and that pissed me off even more. After meeting with that lawyer, I realized that I just wanted to hurt her, to get my shot in, to be the one who ended things.

It was empowering to me talking to that lawyer because I realized that is what I wanted. But really what effect would it have for me to tell off this evil psychotic *****? Nothing. Only way that you can inflict pain on a woman like that is with physical force. The best way to get back at her was to live an amazing life.

MW, your gal wasn't the perfect GF, wasn't the perfect SB because she is fucking crazy and you are better off without her. When a woman is pulling the kind of shit your gal was, it is because THEY are fucking around not you. You are questioning what you did wrong when you did nothing wrong. Just like me with my gal, you dodged a bullet with her. It is femaleese to say you are not being open with her when she is hiding shit from you.

[QUOTE=MiamiBoy1;2507049]I noticed that some girls on SA say in their bio "Don't offer me money for sex", and at the same time say they like gifts, like to get pampered, travel etc. And clearly prefer that over money. Maybe this makes them feel they are not hookers, but rather GF, I don't know. Anyway, a "gift" has a vague meaning, it could be a $50 perfume or $2000 Gucci bag. So far I have tried to avoid girls asking for gifts, because it seems to me they are high maintenance and since they don't want to discuss money it makes it very difficult to negotiate and so many questions start to arise. Like, how often does she expect a gift? Every time we meet or once in awhile (similar to monthly allowance)? How much to spend on a gift / how much she expects me to spend? Obviously if my budget is, say, $150 PPM, I'm not buying a $1000 purse after me meet a couple of times. I have bought gifts before, but it always has been a bonus to a girl for her extra effort / performance and in addition to PPM, and always benefited me in some way, like sexy lingerie that I asked her to put on, or nice perfume, etc. Any thoughts on this topic?[/QUOTE]Do be fooled by this. Gift is just a euphemism for money. They want monetary gifts! In SA land we call it a gift / allowance. But it's money at the end of the day. A girl will absolutely say "I would never give sex for money". But she will fuck a guy that she likes moderately and he gives her a monetary gift when they are together.

You and I know these are basically the same thing. In their mind it's totally different. Never suggest money for sex. You guys like each other. You do what adults do. You don't have time to shop with her so you give her a monetary gift as shorthand. I usually put it in a card with a short note. Which again makes it more gift like.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2507086]MW,

So when she says you are not being open for her. That is femaleese that she is not being open and is hiding something, which probably is that she is seeing another guy.

I was engaged to a Venezuelan woman. She had an Instagram page where she showed another guy as her boyfriend and blocked not just me but all my friends from seeing her site. She even got mad when I asked for her page. Well, I found it eventually. She broke up with me before I broke up with her, and it hurt. I had people tell me that she was a narcissist and I did not want to believe it. Well, let me tell you, she was one, and I was duped.

[/QUOTE]Dood, thanks for sharing. Man, sorry that you got burned like that. I feel you, man. BTW, those pictures that you posted, is that Gaby? OMG, I would wife that just for the honeymoon!

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2507012]Normal, girls can change there mind at any time, especially SA girls. Remember most are also talking to other men. Especially in the states, and you got these guys promising the world. This is why I avoid monthly arrangements, are expectations go up, and it rarely works.[/QUOTE]Yeah, thanks, man. Still cannot wrap my head around this though. The monthly allowance wasn't high, but I was very generous toward her in many other ways, including expensive gifts. Oh well.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2507003]Women make decisions based on emotions. Because emotions change their decision making and behavior can change radically. So when fact based beings try to project "logical" behavior on emotional beings it's not going to make sense.

That's all that's going on here. Something changed her emotional state. And she made some bad decisions (flaming you, blocking u) in that emotional state. Nothing you did. Don't try to understand it. You can't project logic onto this situation.

And oh. As a friend once told me, there is always a better one around the corner. And u know what hes right. Maybe u dont hit her right away. But u see some great ones along the way and yes, there is even a better one out there. Just keep hitting it man and u will find it. And another after that![/QUOTE]Thanks, brah.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2507113]Do be fooled by this. Gift is just a euphemism for money. [/QUOTE]I agree with this. Even on pro websites, they always refer to payment either as a gift or as a present. This is their way of being less explicit, in case LE is watching.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2507213]Dood, thanks for sharing. Man, sorry that you got burned like that. I feel you, man. BTW, those pictures that you posted, is that Gaby? OMG, I would wife that just for the honeymoon!

Yeah, thanks, man. Still cannot wrap my head around this though. The monthly allowance wasn't high, but I was very generous toward her in many other ways, including expensive gifts. Oh well.[/QUOTE]I think it's not a money thing. It sounds like she wants to have a real relationship with you. I won't conclude that she is seeing other man. I think it just means she would not pick up calls if she were with another man. She projects her own thinking onto you so her reaction tells you more about her than about you. People do this all the time, man or woman.

My friend who is single is in a LTR with his girlfriend. The girl has met most of his friends. They don't live together because they live in different cities but they are almost like husband and wife when together. To make her feel secure, he put a large sum of money in her bank account. I once bought a very expensive watch for my friend so he can give it to the girl as a gift. But after all my friend has done, the girl still wants marriage. The girl is doing fine financially herself, own her own place and a regular job.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2507213]

I agree with this. Even on pro websites, they always refer to payment either as a gift or as a present. This is their way of being less explicit, in case LE is watching.[/QUOTE]Not always the case. DramaFree11 posted recently about the girl wanting him to go to the store with her to buy something.

And yes, I'm aware of X amount of Roses (or whatever they call money / cash not to be so explicit). My post was about girls who literally mean gifts / presents and get offended when offered cash.

[QUOTE=MiamiBoy1;2507307]Not always the case. DramaFree11 posted recently about the girl wanting him to go to the store with her to buy something.

And yes, I'm aware of X amount of Roses (or whatever they call money / cash not to be so explicit). My post was about girls who literally mean gifts / presents and get offended when offered cash.[/QUOTE]Correct, but I also mentioned she was extremely High Maintenance. I would of had to, put month into this girls and no guarantee I would ever had sex. If I like a girl, there is no issues with gifts, but I would be very careful. Also, If she does not want to have sex, then you have to have 2 SB, in Mexico and Europe, no problem, it is much cheaper. In the states no way. I do like the idea of the gift cards, but gift I would stay away from, too much time and time is money.

MW, the breakup was the best thing that could have happened to me. Her name was Julieth. I followed her Instagram for a year after that and saw how tried so hard to show me her life was better without me when it was not. I could have had her back if I had taken all the blame for what she had done, but I was not having that.

A lot of guys are like these South American seeking women are all working girls, do not care about you and are only out for money, and really want to hang out with their Latin BFs. When you actually get to follow women's lives on Instagram, you get to see if it is true or not. In Julieth's case, her life went way downhill. Her novio and his friends promised her the world and did not deliver on it, and she is suffering big time. I know she would do things differently if she had the chance to.

On the other hand, Gaby is a good girl. Unlike Julieth, she really is better off with this other guy and not me.

Gaby is in Mexico, and there is a lot of money there in comparison to Peru where Julieth is and Colombia. It is so rare that a Colombian or Peruvian woman can do better with their Colombian or Peruvian novio over an American guy. I saw that with Julieth and if you look at the wage difference between the USA and Colombia / Peru, it is staggering.

A lot of guys who go to Colombia or Brazil may think the women have better options than them, but now I know and more importantly feel otherwise. That boost of confidence really has helped my game.

Anywhere, here are pics of Julieth. I think they are both 10's, but Gaby was taller and more striking. One of the things that kind of may have ruined it for me with Gaby was that I was having a hard time finding 10's until Covid hit, and I was kind of desperate to bang a girl hotter than Julieth. LOL.

Now the 10's seem to be falling out of the trees. I have two Colombian models lined up for my next trip that may be 10's as well. Pre Covid, I really was having a hard time finding breath taking beauties on seeking but there are a lot of models out of work these days. He he.

[QUOTE=MiamiBoy1;2507307]\My post was about girls who literally mean gifts / presents and get offended when offered cash.[/QUOTE]Oh, then be prepared to spend a lot on gifts and presents. I had several SBs that only wanted me to buy stuff for them. But, man! That was expensive. Purses, cell phones, SPA treatments, jewelry, clothes. It was ridiculous!!

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2507343] I have two Colombian models lined up for my next trip that may be 10's as well. Pre Covid, I really was having a hard time finding breath taking beauties on seeking but there are a lot of models out of work these days. He he.[/QUOTE]Good luck. I thought I had a sure 10 in Costa Rica that I met online and talked to on the phone. She met me at the airport. When I saw her face it in person, it looked like cottage cheese smeared on it, from acne scars and other acne problems. I had to try hard to shake her off from being a mooch. Women are Very crafty with what photos they post online, they will blur out of focus parts of them that are problems, crop at the bustline to hide belly fat, also they turn their hips to the side to hide their fat butt.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2507503]Oh, then be prepared to spend a lot on gifts and presents. I had several SBs that only wanted me to buy stuff for them. But, man! That was expensive. Purses, cell phones, SPA treatments, jewelry, clothes. It was ridiculous!![/QUOTE]Well said, but I think with most of us Time is more valuable then money and gifts. I think a lot of are fortunate and have great jobs. I can make more money, but running around with a girl for several hours buying gifts is not my idea of fun, unless I real like the girl. One of my favorite girls in MTY, the model is so fun to be around and humble, I enjoy all the time I am with her.

Now the 2 girls that were seeking gifts, I could not stand being around them for more then 1 or 2.

I was surprised to read on here a couple time that guys were getting bareback from their babies. Yet here it is. Sarah tried to bareback me on our second date (first date was kiss only) and I didn't go there. I'm not worried about disease since she's been off market. But pregnancy is always a concern. So I asked and sure enough she started back on the pill. So date 3 was a bareback fiesta! Wowzer! Sugar Babies rule!

So a couple funny things that made me wonder when did she decide she was going to fuck me. When in the process?

The things that made me wonder:

1. She told me that second date that she had trouble deciding outfits but ended up picking something she could get out of fast. LOL.

2. When I asked her about the pill she said she stopped a couple months ago but started again a week ago (coincidence? I think not!

So back to "when did she decide I am worth fucking". She said she thought during our date that it was very nice but probably not for her (she is total newbie). But then our passionate kiss made her think twice. But it wasn't a done deal. She said our continued texting cemented it. Don't underestimate the importance of kissing and your text game fellas! There may be some bareback in ur future!

Here is an a weird one. She asked me what type of arrangement I was looking for. This girl is in MTY.

But: How does, this sound, for an arrangements, Between $150-175 dollars, for 2-3 hours of fun, with 2 sessions of sex.

But: What do you think.

[well it's not what I'm looking for. But if you want just hang out and know more about the city, it was my pleasure show you Monterrey, I love to be guide tourist!

Good night.

But: What are you looking for?

I usually do arrangements like tourist guide and you don't have to pay for my time, I like to make friends! 😊.

If you like my service as tourist guide you can feel free to give me tips, only if you have a good time.

But: No, I am looking for something different, if you change your mind let me know. Good luck.

You too!

Night, night!]

What would make a working girl agree to BBFS? Do you offer extra $ for that? I've read a bunch of reports recently where guys bareback left and right.

I don't get it. Every time I propose it I get a huge NO. I'm healthy and maintain good hygiene, but no luck. My understanding is girls do not like to take pills because it fucks up their hormone system, therefore they prefer to have covered sex and be safe.

Damn, i even had to order these expensive 0.01 polyurethane condoms from Japan for my next trip, a friend of mine said they are so thin you don't feel them on

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2507735]I was surprised to read on here a couple time that guys were getting bareback from their babies. Yet here it is. Sarah tried to bareback me on our second date (first date was kiss only) and I didn't go there. I'm not worried about disease since she's been off market. But pregnancy is always a concern. So I asked and sure enough she started back on the pill. So date 3 was a bareback fiesta! Wowzer! Sugar Babies rule![/QUOTE]This would freak me out. I have a couple friends who have had little ones with GFs who were supposedly "on the pill". You seem like an affluent guy. A sugar baby might like to emphasize the daddy in sugar daddy.

[QUOTE=MiamiBoy1;2507922]What would make a working girl agree to BBFS? Do you offer extra $ for that? I've read a bunch of reports recently where guys bareback left and right.

I don't get it. Every time I propose it I get a huge NO. I'm healthy and maintain good hygiene, but no luck. My understanding is girls do not like to take pills because it fucks up their hormone system, therefore they prefer to have covered sex and be safe.

Damn, i even had to order these expensive 0.01 polyurethane condoms from Japan for my next trip, a friend of mine said they are so thin you don't feel them on[/QUOTE]Look I am not an expert on BBFS. Lew Ashby is the king IMO. You might Message him. But most WGs will never consider it. Because it's their BUSINESS and disease or pregnancy fucks their business. But lower end venues like Thailand and Mexico you can find it. In more upscale locations you are only likely to find with something semi long term like a regular SB.

At least this is what I've seen. And each of us has different moral boundaries but I would never have BBFS with some girl I didnt know. Too much chance for a little Steve happening u have no idea what protection if any they are using. I only started BBFS with Sarah after knowing her as a person and having confidence that she is on protection.

P.S. Beware. Several of us have experienced breakage with the Jap super thins. I use Trojan BareSkin and they are very close to the Japanese feel but much more reliable. Highly recommmend. And oh if u are even vaguely thick make sure to try out the Jap ones before ur trip. Even the XL are super tight for me and I am not exceptional.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2507940]Look I am not an expert on BBFS. Lew Ashby is the king IMO. You might Message him. But most WGs will never consider it. Because it's their BUSINESS and disease or pregnancy fucks their business. But lower end venues like Thailand and Mexico you can find it. In more upscale locations you are only likely to find with something semi long term like a regular SB.

At least this is what I've seen. And each of us has different moral boundaries but I would never have BBFS with some girl I didnt know. Too much chance for a little Steve happening u have no idea what protection if any they are using. I only started BBFS with Sarah after knowing her as a person and having confidence that she is on protection.[/QUOTE]I don't think it matters if a girl is working girl, pro, semi-pro, SB, etc. Simply because nobody wants to have a kid born out of a real relationship. Who wants to be a single mom?

[QUOTE=MiamiBoy1;2507922]What would make a working girl agree to BBFS? Do you offer extra $ for that?[/QUOTE]No, you treat seeking girls like women not pros.

[QUOTE=MiamiBoy1;2507922]I've read a bunch of reports recently where guys bareback left and right.[/QUOTE]Yep. Guilty.

[QUOTE=MiamiBoy1;2507922]I don't get it. Every time I propose it I get a huge NO. I'm healthy and maintain good hygiene, but no luck. My understanding is girls do not like to take pills because it fucks up their hormone system, therefore they prefer to have covered sex and be safe.[/QUOTE]If you google the phrase "large study shows that condoms do not work for STDs", your second hit will be the Catholic News Agency saying condoms do not work. Do not let the catholic crap fool you. They are referencing a huge STD study.

On July 20, a report was issued by the USA Department of Health and Human Services. A scientific panel co-sponsored by the National Institutes of Health (NIH), the Food and Drug Administration (FDA), the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), the USA Agency for International Development (USAID), developed the report. It was based on a yearlong study in which 28 researchers reviewed 138 peer-reviewed, published studies on the heterosexual transmission of sexually transmitted diseases (STD).

The panel studied condom effectiveness in preventing the eight most prevalent sexually transmitted diseases: HIV, gonorrhea, chlamydia, syphilis, chancroid, trichomoniasis, genital herpes, and human papillomavirus (HPV). Condoms were not found to provide universal protection against any of these diseases.

End of quote.

I use medications to prevent STDs if I am not comfortable with the girl. Any guy can legally buy antibiotics abroad or on [URL]alldaychemist.com[/URL].

For pregnancy, anyone can buy plan be which suppresses ovulation. If you use this right after sex, pregnancy prevention is about equal to a condom. I make sure I shoot my babies anywhere but the vagina. As long as I have used this method, I have not gotten a woman pregnant.

Do not offer money. Show the woman you are concerned with your and her safety. It might help if you had a STD panel you could show a woman right off the bat. If you want to be a bit of a dick about it, say that you cannot use condoms because you are allergic to latex.

Honestly, I do think latex allergies are a bigger deal than HIV, but that is how I go about it. If the women do not trust me to go bare, unless they are perfect in every other way, I am done with them. Trust is the cornerstone of the SD SB relationship.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2507957]No, you treat seeking girls like women not pros.

Do not offer money. Show the woman you are concerned with your and her safety. It might help if you had a STD panel you could show a woman right off the bat. If you want to be a bit of a dick about it, say that you cannot use condoms because you are allergic to latex.

Honestly, I do think latex allergies are a bigger deal than HIV, but that is how I go about it. If the women do not trust me to go bare, unless they are perfect in every other way, I am done with them. Trust is the cornerstone of the SD SB relationship.[/QUOTE]I agree and disagree. We try to have it both ways and play the game. Sometimes the women play back. There is no trust with the person who is seeing others on the side. Nothing wrong with that. But pretending not to be to fool other side is a slightly different thing.

As for the super thin Asian condoms, they are worth every bit if you can fit into them. The are quite inflexible, so, it you don't fit, they can be expanded like latex. However, they are strong and they have great feeling--especially if you don't have to worry about the unexpected. Their greatest feature is heat transmission. You can simply feel her temperature and that can be sensational with the right woman. I know of a person where I can feel her passion by her temperature. The best feature is they are super slippery. Very little natural or synthetic lubrication is required. That lets you fuck for a long time and you can slip into the smallest holes with no problem. At times, they can be better than barebacking. When a woman does not have to worry about pregnancy and disease, she can enjoy the moment. That can lead to sex on and off for a whole day and wanting more at night. Always look at the big picture. More sex is always better.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2507735]

So back to "when did she decide I am worth fucking". She said she thought during our date that it was very nice but probably not for her (she is total newbie). But then our passionate kiss made her think twice. But it wasn't a done deal. She said our continued texting cemented it. Don't underestimate the importance of kissing and your text game fellas! There may be some bareback in ur future![/QUOTE]Congrats, man! But she's going to fall in love with you! So there'll be drama down the line. Maybe keep reminding her you're married.

[QUOTE=MiamiBoy1;2507922]What would make a working girl agree to BBFS? Do you offer extra $ for that? I've read a bunch of reports recently where guys bareback left and right.

I don't get it. Every time I propose it I get a huge NO. I'm healthy and maintain good hygiene, but no luck. My understanding is girls do not like to take pills because it fucks up their hormone system, therefore they prefer to have covered sex and be safe.

Damn, i even had to order these expensive 0.01 polyurethane condoms from Japan for my next trip, a friend of mine said they are so thin you don't feel them on[/QUOTE]I tried the Japanese condoms, and it does feel like you're wearing nothing, but that's because they are so tight, so they are hard to put on. Sometimes I lose my erection trying to put it on.

I'm also guilty of barebacking SBs and even WGs. I used to strictly use protection, but after being with hundreds of women (mostly WGs) using protection, I just lost interest in it. But it all started with a gal that used to be a WG, but now she owns a few businesses and has a BF. But she likes me, and so we still meet up sometimes, and she insisted on bareback one day, saying that it felt great for her too. And when we did it, it felt so good that I almost cannot return to covered action, unless it's with strange. My ATF WG also let me BB her. She so hot, and so BBing was such heaven. Is this all stupid? Yes. My two current SBs let me BB them. Both also let me CIP. Is this stupid? Yes. BTW, yes, my SB#1 suddenly texted me yesterday, after dumping me over two weeks ago. We might get back together.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2508135]I'm also guilty of barebacking SBs and even WGs. I used to strictly use protection, but after being with hundreds of women (mostly WGs) using protection, I just lost interest in it. But it all started with a gal that used to be a WG, but now she owns a few businesses and has a BF. But she likes me, and so we still meet up sometimes, and she insisted on bareback one day, saying that it felt great for her too. And when we did it, it felt so good that I almost cannot return to covered action, unless it's with strange. My ATF WG also let me BB her. She so hot, and so BBing was such heaven. Is this all stupid? Yes. My two current SBs let me BB them. Both also let me CIP. Is this stupid? Yes. BTW, yes, my SB#1 suddenly texted me yesterday, after dumping me over two weeks ago. We might get back together.[/QUOTE]That's awesome. Not surprised. Like I say her emotional state changed. She realized in her last emotional state she made a bad decision and in her new emotional state she misses you or your money. Heheh. Kudos to her for swallowing her pride and reaching out. You should give her another shot (so to speak) imo.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2508129]Congrats, man! But she's going to fall in love with you! So there'll be drama down the line. Maybe keep reminding her you're married.[/QUOTE]You are quite right. In fact I think she already has. So managing carefully. I felt 100% sure after the first in room date that I didn't need to pay her a dime. That she was having at least as much fun as me. So I intentionally paid her to avoid a pure GF perception. I waited a few days because I didn't want to scare her off (feeling like she's being paid for sex) but then sent her what I would a regular SB. And yeah I've made clear my two hard and fast rules:

We can never be more than BFGF.

She can never know my name or try to find out.

So far so good but I can tell she is perilously into me. Which hasn't happened before.

And I must admit I am super satisfied with her but it’s all around the sex. Even without bareback I’d say she is the most sexually satisfying girl I’ve been with. If she was more my type (Thifany, Alexa, Krystal) I’d be a complete goner.

Has anyone used prepaid credit cards, the kinds with no name on them, to buy an SA membership?

Trying to figure out if possible to get an account without leaving a record.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2508153]That's awesome. Not surprised. Like I say her emotional state changed. She realized in her last emotional state she made a bad decision and in her new emotional state she misses you or your money. Heheh. Kudos to her for swallowing her pride and reaching out. You should give her another shot (so to speak) imo.[/QUOTE]I saw her today. She said that when girls get mad at their boyfriends, then boyfriends have to win them back, and that this takes 5 days of pleading. She said that I gave up too easily, because I stopped after only two days of pleading. So I thanked her for teaching me this lesson, and that in the future I will spend 5 days begging her to take me back each time she gets angry at me. Oh, and she said it's is her personality to get angry all the time. Well, despite the headache, the weird thing is that she is only a pain in the ass when we are not together, so this is easy to handle. When we are together, then it is a great time. So odd, but whatever.

I also told her that I don't look at my phone all the time, like young people do. So, I told her that if I don't reply to her messages right away, then don't get angry. This is what led to our fight a few weeks ago, that led her to delete my contact, because I didn't reply to her text for 5 hours. Today, she still said this is a lie. So then I asked her if her parents look at their phones all day long. She said of course not, because they are old people. I reminded her that I am only a year younger than her parents. Suddenly, she realized that maybe it's true that I don't look at my phone all day, like she and her friends do. I told her that when I was her age, I didn't have a cell phone, which is true. She was stunned, and so she finally accepted it as a legit excuse for my replying to her for 5 hours.

Anyway, we barebacked and I did CIP, so it is all good.

[QUOTE=AmericanPi;2508198]Has anyone used prepaid credit cards, the kinds with no name on them, to buy an SA membership?

Trying to figure out if possible to get an account without leaving a record.[/QUOTE]I use prepaid cards for SA membership all the time. I also use a fake address. Everything was working well until I forgot the fake address, made up another address and they immediately suspended my membership and then deleted my account. But yes they take prepaid cards.

[QUOTE=Travel902;2508501]I use prepaid cards for SA membership all the time. I also use a fake address. Everything was working well until I forgot the fake address, made up another address and they immediately suspended my membership and then deleted my account. But yes they take prepaid cards.[/QUOTE]Thanks for replying.

So I gather, then, that:

1. I need to choose a fake address.

2. That address is linked to my account, so I need to note it so that I re-use the same one in the future so my account doesn't get suspended.

Is that right?

Does she know that you're married?

When I think back to my SA relationships that eventually turned very ugly, I think in every instance it was because I lied about being single. Some found out that I was married (which is why the relationship became ugly and even scary), but some never found out that I was married (which is why they became devastated when the relationship ended, because they thought we were heading towards possible marriage).

When I first started using SA, I thought the best strategy was to tell them I am divorced or separated, or maybe unhappily married. But now I realize this is a huge mistake. I may have actually learned this lesson from an SA relationship that became ugly. My SB told me that if I had just confessed to being married from the very beginning, then we could have had a great NSA and no drama relationship, but that I ruined it by lying from the beginning and giving her false expectations for the relationship.

With later SA relationships where the SB knew that I was married, they were all pretty much great relationships. I feared that SBs would just treat the relationship as a business if they knew that I was married, but this was not the case at all. I really think many gals have no problems having relationships with married men, without hoping to eventually marry them. I think some of these gals are even relieved at the prospect of not having to marry their SDs. One gal told me that her SD was so in love with her that he was planning on divorcing his wife for her, and this scared her so much that she eventually broke up with him. I think my current SB #1 is even thrilled that I am married. This is because she has no interest in marriage.

Anyway, keep us updated on this relationship. I am always curious as to what might happen when SBs fall in love with their SDs.

Are you still on the road, or is this relationship happening in your home city?

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2508156]You are quite right. In fact I think she already has. So managing carefully. I felt 100% sure after the first in room date that I didn't need to pay her a dime. That she was having at least as much fun as me. So I intentionally paid her to avoid a pure GF perception. I waited a few days because I didn't want to scare her off (feeling like she's being paid for sex) but then sent her what I would a regular SB. And yeah I've made clear my two hard and fast rules:

We can never be more than BFGF.

She can never know my name or try to find out.

So far so good but I can tell she is perilously into me. Which hasn't happened before.

And I must admit I am super satisfied with her but its all around the sex. Even without bareback Id say she is the most sexually satisfying girl Ive been with. If she was more my type (Thifany, Alexa, Krystal) Id be a complete goner.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2508630]Does she know that you're married?

When I think back to my SA relationships that eventually turned very ugly, I think in every instance it was because I lied about being single. Some found out that I was married (which is why the relationship became ugly and even scary), but some never found out that I was married (which is why they became devastated when the relationship ended, because they thought we were heading towards possible marriage).

When I first started using SA, I thought the best strategy was to tell them I am divorced or separated, or maybe unhappily married. But now I realize this is a huge mistake. I may have actually learned this lesson from an SA relationship that became ugly. My SB told me that if I had just confessed to being married from the very beginning, then we could have had a great NSA and no drama relationship, but that I ruined it by lying from the beginning and giving her false expectations for the relationship.

With later SA relationships where the SB knew that I was married, they were all pretty much great relationships. I feared that SBs would just treat the relationship as a business if they knew that I was married, but this was not the case at all. I really think many gals have no problems having relationships with married men, without hoping to eventually marry them. I think some of these gals are even relieved at the prospect of not having to marry their SDs. One gal told me that her SD was so in love with her that he was planning on divorcing his wife for her, and this scared her so much that she eventually broke up with him. I think my current SB #1 is even thrilled that I am married. This is because she has no interest in marriage.

Anyway, keep us updated on this relationship. I am always curious as to what might happen when SBs fall in love with their SDs.

Are you still on the road, or is this relationship happening in your home city?[/QUOTE]I agree with you that most girls see you being married as positive — clear NSA from the beginning. But my very first real crush SB date in LA she balked about me being married when we kissed. She knew it ahead but it just hit her. This happens with complete newbies where they might believe they could be a home wrecker and don't want to play that role. More experienced girls realize you are not leaving your wife.

Anyhow with Sarah I played it carefully. I didn't wear my wedding ring because I thought it would make her uncomfortable. Although early on she knew I was in a nonsexual married relationship. I also didn't wear it date 2. But date three I forgot. So we fucked bareback with my ring on. I noticed it and was like doh! She said she noticed it but it doesn't bother her. She's in the middle of a divorce herself.

Yes this is a local gig. My third multi visit local gig (serial).

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2508656]I agree with you that most girls see you being married as positive clear NSA from the beginning. But my very first real crush SB date in LA she balked about me being married when we kissed. She knew it ahead but it just hit her. This happens with complete newbies where they might believe they could be a home wrecker and don't want to play that role. More experienced girls realize you are not leaving your wife.

Anyhow with Sarah I played it carefully. I didn't wear my wedding ring because I thought it would make her uncomfortable. Although early on she knew I was in a nonsexual married relationship. I also didn't wear it date 2. But date three I forgot. So we fucked bareback with my ring on. I noticed it and was like doh! She said she noticed it but it doesn't bother her. She's in the middle of a divorce herself.

Yes this is a local gig. My third multi visit local gig (serial).[/QUOTE]We all lie a little, for many different reasons, but I think when it comes to Marriage, I do think you should be as honest a possible. Not being honest about this could lead to so many problems down the road.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2507957]
If you google the phrase "large study shows that condoms do not work for STDs", your second hit will be the Catholic News Agency saying condoms do not work. Do not let the catholic crap fool you. They are referencing a huge STD study.

On July 20, a report was issued by the USA Department of Health and Human Services. A scientific panel co-sponsored by the National Institutes of Health (NIH), the Food and Drug Administration (FDA), the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), the USA Agency for International Development (USAID), developed the report. It was based on a yearlong study in which 28 researchers reviewed 138 peer-reviewed, published studies on the heterosexual transmission of sexually transmitted diseases (STD).

The panel studied condom effectiveness in preventing the eight most prevalent sexually transmitted diseases: HIV, gonorrhea, chlamydia, syphilis, chancroid, trichomoniasis, genital herpes, and human papillomavirus (HPV). Condoms were not found to provide universal protection against any of these diseases.

End of quote.

I use medications to prevent STDs if I am not comfortable with the girl. Any guy can legally buy antibiotics abroad or on [URL]alldaychemist.com[/URL].

For pregnancy, anyone can buy plan be which suppresses ovulation. If you use this right after sex, pregnancy prevention is about equal to a condom. I make sure I shoot my babies anywhere but the vagina. As long as I have used this method, I have not gotten a woman pregnant.

Do not offer money. Show the woman you are concerned with your and her safety. It might help if you had a STD panel you could show a woman right off the bat. If you want to be a bit of a dick about it, say that you cannot use condoms because you are allergic to latex.

Honestly, I do think latex allergies are a bigger deal than HIV, but that is how I go about it. If the women do not trust me to go bare, unless they are perfect in every other way, I am done with them. Trust is the cornerstone of the SD SB relationship.[/QUOTE]Referring to this report, which at the time was touted by religious activists to promote SUBSTANANCE EDUCATION on a MONGERING BOARD is beyond ludicrous, but hey, why am I not surprised?

Look, I'm not sitting on a high horse. If you can't live without barebacking, it's your risks and the risks your partner can knowingly take, but the study you're referencing took place in 2001 - almost 20 years ago. Something you forgot to mention for whatever reason.

Didn't find UNIVERSAL protection? Sure, even 1% failure makes it less than universal. For HIV, that's 15%.

Sure 85% effectiveness is worse than 100%, but I'll fucking take it vs zero.

""The report doesn't make clear enough that condoms should be close to 100 percent effective in preventing gonorrhea in women, chlamydia and trichomoniasis," said Jeff Spieler, one of 28 panel members who helped prepare the report and an official at the USA Agency for International Development.

Spieler agreed that the strongest evidence for the effectiveness of condoms is for preventing pregnancy and HIV infection, as well as gonorrhea in men, and that the evidence is not as strong for other diseases such as chlamydia, gonorrhea in women, genital herpes, syphilis, chancroid and the human papillomavirus. But Spieler and others said there is no reason to believe condoms are not protective against those diseases as well.

"There is an opportunity for some people to read the report and say, inappropriately, that even the Department of Health and Human Services admits we don't know if condoms prevent many STDs," Spieler said. "As somebody who is completely devoted to improving public health, I know that any message that minimizes the role and importance of correct and consistent condom use can have an extremely negative effect on preventing HIV and other STDs. ".

[URL]https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/2001/07/20/report-questions-condoms-disease-prevention-ability/73ed1ef6-6908-47e1-84c2-9e38f6876dd3/[/URL]

Here is an NIH quote from 2018.

"In 2000, NIAID conducted a rigorous review of scientific evidence on latex condoms to determine their efficacy in preventing the spread of HIV. The review included epidemiologic and laboratory studies, both of which conclusively demonstrated that the correct and consistent use of male latex condoms decreased the risk of HIV transmission by approximately 85 percent, providing a high degree of protection against infection. ".

[URL]https://www.niaid.nih.gov/diseases-conditions/condom-use[/URL]

Your life. Your risks, but stop spreading BS to support your lifestyle choices.

[QUOTE=AmericanPi;2508536]Thanks for replying.

So I gather, then, that:

1. I need to choose a fake address.

2. That address is linked to my account, so I need to note it so that I re-use the same one in the future so my account doesn't get suspended.

Is that right?[/QUOTE]That is correct.

I only join for 1 month at a time, so when I rejoin I usually have a new card and it always requires me to fill out my address;.

Good luck.

[QUOTE=MiamiBoy1;2507922]What would make a working girl agree to BBFS? Do you offer extra $ for that? I've read a bunch of reports recently where guys bareback left and right.

I don't get it. Every time I propose it I get a huge NO. I'm healthy and maintain good hygiene, but no luck. My understanding is girls do not like to take pills because it fucks up their hormone system, therefore they prefer to have covered sex and be safe.

Damn, i even had to order these expensive 0.01 polyurethane condoms from Japan for my next trip, a friend of mine said they are so thin you don't feel them on[/QUOTE]I personally never suggest it. I let the woman take the I initiative, that's how I know she's mentally (and emotionally) prepared for it.

[QUOTE=Akibono;2508102]
As for the super thin Asian condoms, they are worth every bit if you can fit into them. The are quite inflexible, so, it you don't fit, they can be expanded like latex. However, they are strong and they have great feeling--especially if you don't have to worry about the unexpected. Their greatest feature is heat transmission. You can simply feel her temperature and that can be sensational with the right woman. I know of a person where I can feel her passion by her temperature. The best feature is they are super slippery. Very little natural or synthetic lubrication is required. That lets you fuck for a long time and you can slip into the smallest holes with no problem. At times, they can be better than barebacking. When a woman does not have to worry about pregnancy and disease, she can enjoy the moment. That can lead to sex on and off for a whole day and wanting more at night. Always look at the big picture. More sex is always better.[/QUOTE]Do you have brand names.

[QUOTE=Travel902;2508501]I use prepaid cards for SA membership all the time. I also use a fake address. Everything was working well until I forgot the fake address, made up another address and they immediately suspended my membership and then deleted my account. But yes they take prepaid cards.[/QUOTE]I've been using pre-paid debit card for the last several years (I can't imagine using personally identifying info on that site). I've run into problems several times with payment processing, including getting locked out of the account, but was always was able to get it fixed by emailing SA support. Be polite. They were always helpful to me, and seem to understand the score. The payment processing security is just a computer algorithm that reacts to whatever discrepancies it's programmed to find, so if you get blocked, don't assume there's a wizard behind the curtains divining your nefarious intent. As others have reported, what works best now is to pick a large apartment complex in your area and use that address for entering payment info, with a One Vanilla card. But yeah, remember to write it down. Thanks to this thread, I realized I forgot to do that on my last renewal, and just went through my browser history to find my map search (success!

[QUOTE=Oneminuteboy;2509097]I personally never suggest it. I let the woman take the I initiative, that's how I know she's mentally (and emotionally) prepared for it.[/QUOTE]Makes sense. But I have never been offered BBFS by a woman. If I don't take the initiative, it is not going to happen.

I am primarily using SA for Medellin. The forum there is a combination of pros and non-pros. I am trying to figure out the set of questions I should ask, cues I should look for to filter out the pros. Would love to get insight on how you go about doing that.

[QUOTE=Oneminuteboy;2509097]
Do you have brand names.[/QUOTE]The most popular one is probably Sagami 001.

[QUOTE=Nounce;2509142]The most popular one is probably Sagami 001.[/QUOTE]Does that come wrapped in Nori?

[QUOTE=Luminous;2509139]I am primarily using SA for Medellin. The forum there is a combination of pros and non-pros. I am trying to figure out the set of questions I should ask, cues I should look for to filter out the pros. Would love to get insight on how you go about doing that.[/QUOTE]If they are willing to meet you at a hotel or at your place or their place without checking you out first, like with a picture of your face or with a phone call or with a meet-and-greet, then they are likely to be pros. This is not a hard rule, of course. But at the end of the day, what kind of girl is willing to hook up with you without seeing your face first?

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2509217]If they are willing to meet you at a hotel or at your place or their place without checking you out first, like with a picture of your face or with a phone call or with a meet-and-greet, then they are likely to be pros. This is not a hard rule, of course. But at the end of the day, what kind of girl is willing to hook up with you without seeing your face first?[/QUOTE]Great advice, as always.

[QUOTE=Oneminuteboy;2509097]I personally never suggest it. I let the woman take the I initiative, that's how I know she's mentally (and emotionally) prepared for it.

Do you have brand names.[/QUOTE]Sagami. 02 or. 01.

[QUOTE=Luminous;2509139]I am primarily using SA for Medellin. The forum there is a combination of pros and non-pros. I am trying to figure out the set of questions I should ask, cues I should look for to filter out the pros. Would love to get insight on how you go about doing that.[/QUOTE]Just talk to them and it won't take long for you to find out. Pros usually are more efficient. If they tell you a price when you ask "que buscas? I think that will be what you consider as pro. Pictures will be a good indicator too. Some that I think are non-pros have showed me their homework, school schedule, or ask me to help them their English homework. Some ponder about if they really want to do it. Some are distressed financially. Most of the ones I know are not out there fucking guys everyday so the label is not really that important to me.

[QUOTE=Nounce;2509142]The most popular one is probably Sagami 001.[/QUOTE]Sagami 001 is actually 0. 018 mm, but Okamoto 0. 01 is real 0. 01 mm. Also Sagami 002 is actual 0. 02 mm, and it's considerably cheaper, so is this extra 0. 002 mm thinness really worth extra dough? Maybe someone here could compare.

I've tried Okamoto 001, and it's a real deal. They sell in regular or large size, so buy wisely. BUT! I bought 2 packages from 2 different sellers and felt something was off the second time. Don't know if I got a knock off or if I was just imagining things.

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2509275]Sagami 001 is actually 0. 018 mm, but Okamoto 0. 01 is real 0. 01 mm. Also Sagami 002 is actual 0. 02 mm, and it's considerably cheaper, so is this extra 0. 002 mm thinness really worth extra dough? Maybe someone here could compare.

I've tried Okamoto 001, and it's a real deal. They sell in regular or large size, so buy wisely. BUT! I bought 2 packages from 2 different sellers and felt something was off the second time. Don't know if I got a knock off or if I was just imagining things.[/QUOTE]Thanks for the info. For some reason, I don't see Okamoto 001 available in local stores and Sagami 001 is sold out often. I probably will try Okamoto next time based on your experience.

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2509275]Sagami 001 is actually 0. 018 mm, but Okamoto 0. 01 is real 0. 01 mm. Also Sagami 002 is actual 0. 02 mm, and it's considerably cheaper, so is this extra 0. 002 mm thinness really worth extra dough? Maybe someone here could compare.

I've tried Okamoto 001, and it's a real deal. They sell in regular or large size, so buy wisely. BUT! I bought 2 packages from 2 different sellers and felt something was off the second time. Don't know if I got a knock off or if I was just imagining things.[/QUOTE]Where do you order your Okamato condoms from? I looked at their site and don't see how to indicate that you want large versus regular. I liked the Sagamis for their thinness, but finally gave up on them due to too many problems trying to get them on, with half the time failing. If I can find a similar thin, large, unlubricated condom, I would try it.

[URL]https://www.okamotoglobal.com/[/URL]

The problem with you Xpartan is you read an article in the Washington Post and you are like, "Oh, that is all exactly on point". I refer to a Christian group not because I care about them but just because they had the data I wanted to refer to, and you go off on this Christian angle.

It is amazing how the political BS takes over everything and can get even smart people to turn their mind off.

So you take this guy Spieler and because the Washington Post calls him an expert, you totally buy into it Xpartan.

Valtrex reduces HSV transmission rate by 75% so why he is even talking about condoms and HSV when Valtrex have been proven ineffective?

Active gonorrhea is successfully treated 100% of the time with antibiotics in both sexes so why is he even talking about condom use to prevent that disease? For prophylaxis, antibiotics beat condoms and it is not even close.

The vaccine Gardasil has significant risk reduction against HPV but condoms do not.

Then you have the risk of allergy to latex. That runs up around 5 to 10% with rare sudden death being reported with latex exposure.

With that data now look at this quote again "As somebody who is completely devoted to improving public health, I know that any message that minimizes the role and importance of correct and consistent condom use can have an extremely negative effect on preventing HIV and other STDs. ".

Uh sorry. I do not see someone dedicated to health. I see a "scientist" likely paid off by the condom industry. In fact, I question the purpose of the entire study, which is not A study but a compilation of a 100+ studies, because to me it looks like an attempted blowjob to the condom industry.

As for religious groups, I look at their economic interests instead of their moral virtuosity. They want to have as many members as they can and any form of birth control gets in the way of that. Bashing condom use for them in my mind is the same reason they really have for bashing abortion.

So here you are putting in this right-left debate when a guy really just wanted to know how to get to bareback. That is it, just information.

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2508667]Didn't find UNIVERSAL protection? Sure, even 1% failure makes it less than universal. For HIV, that's 15%.

Sure 85% effectiveness is worse than 100%, but I'll fucking take it vs zero.Your life. Your risks, but stop spreading BS to support your lifestyle choices.[/QUOTE]What are the chance of getting HIV from one random sexual encounter? That is actually a trick question, and you have bought into it.

Because you have to ask what kind of sex right? You are just assuming it is for vaginal sex right? Well, is it? How often does HIV transmission occur with vaginal sex? And with anal sex? And how often do anaphylaxis and latex allergies occur with condom use?

Honestly, Xpartan, have you done these calculations or are you just listening to a "scientist" and assuming he does not have an agenda?

Science is making a hypothesis and collecting data and seeing whether or not the hypothesis is true. Science is not making a hypothesis, collecting data, and rejecting the data and keeping the hypothesis. That is what this guy Spieler did, and the Washington Post is rushing to give this a guy a platform? Why?

Here is my take on the data: Condoms have definite benefit with HIV prevention with anal sex and with pregnancy prevention. Outside of those two things, the potential benefits of condom use are either non existent or so small that they do not overcome the risk of latex allergies.

If you have other data, Xpartan, I would like to see it but quit using this Democrat bullshit tactic of wanting people to bow down to some hack who the media certifies as an expert. Real scientists do not ignore data.

[QUOTE=TheCane;2509360]Where do you order your Okamato condoms from? I looked at their site and don't see how to indicate that you want large versus regular. I liked the Sagamis for their thinness, but finally gave up on them due to too many problems trying to get them on, with half the time failing. If I can find a similar thin, large, unlubricated condom, I would try it.

[URL]https://www.okamotoglobal.com/[/URL][/QUOTE]I ordered from [URL]www.worldcondoms.com[/URL], but can't recommend them. It took them over a month to ship here (NYC), and I think they only shipped after I threatened to do a chargeback and out them on every review forum I could find. I mean, you can try. There is no risk involved since you will get your money back from the credit card if it doesn't ship, but it's annoying like hell.

So the second time I ordered it from an Ebay seller. Took about 3 weeks to receive, which should be normal from that part of the world, but like I said, I had some doubts about their authenticity.

If you do decide to get Ocamato, get a large size. They didn't use to have it before, and yes, it was a pain to put it on. But worth it, LOL.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2509389]The problem with you Xpartan is you read an article in the Washington Post and you are like, "Oh, that is all exactly on point"...

Here is my take on the data: Condoms have definite benefit with HIV prevention with anal sex and with pregnancy prevention. Outside of...

If you have other data, Xpartan, I would like to see it but quit using this Democrat bullshit tactic of wanting people to bow down to some hack who the media certifies as an expert. Real scientists do not ignore data.[/QUOTE]LOL, and the problem with you, Elvis, is that you see "Washington Post" and your blood starts boiling.

The article I quoted tells the same story you did. Only you did it with omissions, while the article puts it into context.

Like I said, I don't judge your life choices, unless you choose to back your choices with bogus claims.

HIV, gonorrhea and all other shit out there are not political. They don't give a fuck who you vote for.

But I'm glad you agree that condoms help with HIV prevention. Let's stop right there because that's already a compelling enough argument to use them.

Enjoy life and stay safe!

Elvis,

I was not invited into this discussion, I have no horse in the race, and I have no desire to make people dislike me. But your long note reads as a caricature of what's wrong with a lot of Western society, especially American. Placing "science" in scare quotes. Spouting half-truths, like the statement that antibiotics are a better countermeasure to gonorrhea than condoms (though there are others in your note). I have no judgment whatsoever about people doing what they want to do with a consenting adult. But the science is long settled that condoms greatly reduce the transmission of herpes, which is lifelong; HIV, which is treatable but not curable; HPV, which is beyond ubiquitous and is also treatable but not curable once gotten; syphilis which often doesn't present with symptoms till damage is done.

Your arguments against condoms are like many Americans who insist that wearing a mask to limit covid transmission is pointless on the basis of half-truths (it's just a bad flu; 99 pct of people don't die so how bad can it be; we are no longer a free country if I have to wear a mask). It's really saddening to see this. And I know you vehemently disagree and think me an idiot, or a sheep, for it. But you can't imagine what I think of your points if they're not totally obvious to you.

Guys. Please take the STDs and condoms talk elsewhere. Let's stick to SBs in here. Speaking of SBs. Sarah has been absolutely fabulous in the sack. I mean so passionate And wet and just a whirlwind fuckfest. Couldn't ask for more. In fact totally ignoring her weight since the sex is so fab.

But she is overweight and I was chalking it up to that making her try harder. But today I found out it's all Covid weight gain. She is a ton heavier than her preCovid weight and in fact would be solid but not overweight if she dropped those pounds.

Anyone ever have this delicate conversation with a girl? She's a sweet girl and I don't want to hurt her feelings. But damn she's be so much better 30 lbs lighter. Advice on the convo to have?

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2509534]Guys. Please take the STDs and condoms talk elsewhere. Let's stick to SBs in here. Speaking of SBs. Sarah has been absolutely fabulous in the sack. I mean so passionate And wet and just a whirlwind fuckfest. Couldn't ask for more. In fact totally ignoring her weight since the sex is so fab.

But she is overweight and I was chalking it up to that making her try harder. But today I found out it's all Covid weight gain. She is a ton heavier than her preCovid weight and in fact would be solid but not overweight if she dropped those pounds.

Anyone ever have this delicate conversation with a girl? She's a sweet girl and I don't want to hurt her feelings. But damn she's be so much better 30 lbs lighter. Advice on the convo to have?[/QUOTE]Dood, you're not going to wife her, so who cares if she's 30 pounds overweight? Heavy girls are amazing in the sack because they overcompensate. I suggest that you just enjoy it while it lasts. One of the main advantages of SA is occasionally being able to find a gal that is genuinely into you and into sex, and you seem to have found one. So, I think you should just feel lucky, and don't sweat the weight.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2509540]Dood, you're not going to wife her, so who cares if she's 30 pounds overweight? Heavy girls are amazing in the sack because they overcompensate. I suggest that you just enjoy it while it lasts. One of the main advantages of SA is occasionally being able to find a gal that is genuinely into you and into sex, and you seem to have found one. So, I think you should just feel lucky, and don't sweat the weight.[/QUOTE]Man you are totally right. I guess just the possibility got me thinking but holy shit she is totally into me and the sex is literally the best I've ever had including all civies and pros to date. That is a high bar. WTF am I thinking. Enjoy her as is. Because it's spectacular. Thanks man.

Ps what’s the latest on ur blocked girl. It back on?

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2509544]

Ps whats the latest on ur blocked girl. It back on?[/QUOTE]I saw her on Friday. We hashed it out, recognized that we have a generation gap, and so we now accept that we will sometimes have a misunderstanding and have a fight, but we promised to always keep the relationship.

Then, we barebacked and I nutted inside of her hard. Her period is coming any day now, so I told her that I would be busy at work this week. Next week, when her period is over, I will coincidentally not be busy, and will bust another nut into her. In the meantime, we text, and she sometimes gives me shit about something, but I just ignore it. In person, she's great, which is all that matters for now. She's pretty cool, and very funny. So, I'm having fun, which matters too in these kinds of relationships.

Oh, and I paid her monthly installment, per our arrangement. But it was 3 weeks overdue. But I am going to keep to this new payment schedule. I am not giving her anything for the time that I was blocked obviously.

By the way, if your gal is young and the weight gain is recent, then isn't her body still firm? I remember the heavy girls back in college. Their bodies were amazing, as far as I was concerned. But fat doesn't age well usually.

I am new to SA and I have checked SA after a while. I am seeing lot more girls on SA compared to last year. I am looking into getting into this SA game.

Any suggestions / pointers on bay area SA? What is the rge typical PPM range in bay area? Is there any one area is better than other area in terms of price / attitude etc. Is ir better to look for girls more than 50 miles away from home?

Also why would a girl get premium membership? Does it mean she is pro?

Thanks.

Sam.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2509631]I saw her on Friday. We hashed it out, recognized that we have a generation gap, and so we now accept that we will sometimes have a misunderstanding and have a fight, but we promised to always keep the relationship.

By the way, if your gal is young and the weight gain is recent, then isn't her body still firm? I remember the heavy girls back in college. Their bodies were amazing, as far as I was concerned. But fat doesn't age well usually.[/QUOTE]That's great news. And yeah you’re right. Her fat isn't all jiggly and she has zero cellulite. Her tits are amazing. Clearly they were DeeCups before she put on the weight. Super firm with huge responsive nipples (rare in big tits in my experience). Spent a lot of time last time sucking on them and it drives her crazy with passion. She's a keeper.

I spend quite a bit of time in the Cabo area where it is quite expensive to hobby. I recently decided to try my luck using SA to see what that brought me. I am quite happy with the result. Once you sort out the SB's and find a local non pro the results are amazing. The rate drops from US prices back to Mexican prices, still higher than other parts of Mexico but much more reasonable. Just thought I would pass this along for anybody thinking of travelling to SJD.

[QUOTE=Travel902;2510020]I spend quite a bit of time in the Cabo area where it is quite expensive to hobby. I recently decided to try my luck using SA to see what that brought me. I am quite happy with the result. Once you sort out the SB's and find a local non pro the results are amazing. The rate drops from US prices back to Mexican prices, still higher than other parts of Mexico but much more reasonable. Just thought I would pass this along for anybody thinking of travelling to SJD.[/QUOTE]Thanks for that report! Would be interesting to know how much the typical allowance was and whether knowledge of Spanish is necessary for SA-game in Cabo?

So I am pretty locked up with Sarah now. With Layla I was always looking. Because her kissing and BJ were mediocre. But Sarah is a wildcat and the kissing, BJ, and passion are off the charts. Plus it's super non transactional. She's brand new so I didn't want to give her cash right after or even day after. I waited two days and CashApped her some college cash. We met up twice this week and I didn't pay per session. I mean honestly I know she’d meet me with no $$ at all. Didn’t give her anything after second time. Then after third go, I waited two days again and sent some college money. It feels nice this way - because I don’t really have to give her $$ but I do cuz I want to. Wow. I think it’s supposed to be like this, but rarely is. And in this case more effective than PPM as we have met three times in the last two weeks.

Anyhow that was not the point of this post! Point is you should engage, particularly with new girls. Because they are going to be gone. Sarah had just joined. Actually I asked her if she knew that "curvy is code for overweight on SA" and her face pic did not look overweight. I mean this is not a strong opening! Was really just sayin. I expected her to not even respond. But instead we got into a dialog. Talking to her later she said she did not even respond to ANY of the guys on SA and I was the only one (and she's not just saying that) and now she's gone from SA.

So that tiny engagement and then text and date game and here we are I'm going steady like In High school! So ENGAGE and with NEW girls if you want to snag a real girl. Good luck!

[QUOTE=SamPeter71;2509642]
Also why would a girl get premium membership? Does it mean she is pro?
[/QUOTE]College students get premium membership for free. It also costs much less for SB. I don't remember everything but I posted some detail here before.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2510231]So I am pretty locked up with Sarah now. With Layla I was always looking. Because her kissing and BJ were mediocre. But Sarah is a wildcat and the kissing, BJ, and passion are off the charts. Plus it's super non transactional. She's brand new so I didn't want to give her cash right after or even day after. I waited two days and CashApped her some college cash. We met up twice this week and I didn't pay per session. I mean honestly I know shed meet me with no $$ at all. Didnt give her anything after second time. Then after third go, I waited two days again and sent some college money. It feels nice this way - because I dont really have to give her $$ but I do cuz I want to. Wow. I think its supposed to be like this, but rarely is. And in this case more effective than PPM as we have met three times in the last two weeks.

Anyhow that was not the point of this post! Point is you should engage, particularly with new girls. Because they are going to be gone. Sarah had just joined. Actually I asked her if she knew that "curvy is code for overweight on SA" and her face pic did not look overweight. I mean this is not a strong opening! Was really just sayin. I expected her to not even respond. But instead we got into a dialog. Talking to her later she said she did not even respond to ANY of the guys on SA and I was the only one (and she's not just saying that) and now she's gone from SA.

So that tiny engagement and then text and date game and here we are I'm going steady like In High school! So ENGAGE and with NEW girls if you want to snag a real girl. Good luck![/QUOTE]Very nice! You are generous and you met the right girl so she is lucky to have met you too.

[QUOTE=Ailton;2510219]Thanks for that report! Would be interesting to know how much the typical allowance was and whether knowledge of Spanish is necessary for SA-game in Cabo?[/QUOTE]I have had good results without being able to speak Spanish, I just use a translator app. The SB's always start off with a higher price because of the area, Cabo being the most expensive area in all of Mexico. I offer about 2500 pesos, (125 USD) which I think is fair and if they argue I politely tell them that I am moving on. You can get WG here through the online paper for about 1500 pesos but the real pros are about 5000 pesos. Just my experience.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2510231]......I waited two days and CashApped her some college cash. We met up twice this week and I didn't pay per session. I mean honestly I know shed meet me with no $$ at all. Didnt give her anything after second time. Then after third go, I waited two days again and sent some college money. It feels nice this way - because I dont really have to give her $$ but I do cuz I want to.[/QUOTE]Hey Steve,

Are you able to CashApp money anonymously? Are there easy ways to set-up an anonymous cashapp account? Thanks.

[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2510412]Hey Steve,

Are you able to CashApp money anonymously? Are there easy ways to set-up an anonymous cashapp account? Thanks.[/QUOTE]You guys do not want to use CashApp, for 2 reasons. 1. Very trackable 2. It is a huge Red Flag if you get Audited, you will have a lot of explaining to do. So, that income better be accounted for. Small amounts are OK, but large and consistent monthly amounts can lead to big problems, for both you and the girl.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2510438]You guys do not want to use CashApp, for 2 reasons. 1. Very trackable 2. It is a huge Red Flag if you get Audited, you will have a lot of explaining to do. So, that income better be accounted for. Small amounts are OK, but large and consistent monthly amounts can lead to big problems, for both you and the girl.[/QUOTE]There is no way to set up any money transfer that is anonymous to the bank and / or government. But CashApp is anonymous to the girl. You can also use PayPal but have to set up a business acct to remain anonymous to the girl. Again you can't be anonymous to the app / bank because you have to connect to some source of funds.

I have an acct and debit card that is "safe" for me generally but clearly the govt or institutions could connect the Steve breadcrumbs. Chance I've chosen to take.

Bay area was my primary SA hunting grounds for almost two years. It is a lot of work. I was on SA about 15 hours a week. I would send out 20 messages per day, and see if I could get a nibble.

It's a numbers game with the Bay Area. Finding the new members is always best, but there are a lot of guys using SA in the Bay Area too. Some of the hot girls that I met told me that they would get a hundred messages every day. They are obviously exaggerating, but it is still telling.

Sure, you can stretch your search to 50 miles. That's what I did. But meet and greets and dates will eat up a lot of travel time. And the flake and cancellation rate was pretty high, which added to the time wasted. The gals are also playing a numbers game too. So, they might agree to meet you, but if something better comes along, then they cancel.

Going rate was 500 for PPM, which is exactly the going rate for a high quality pro in SF.

You can increase your success rate if are willing to date older gals, like over 30 or even over 40. If I were still in SF, I would probably skip SA and just do the FS AMPS.

[QUOTE=SamPeter71;2509642]I am new to SA and I have checked SA after a while. I am seeing lot more girls on SA compared to last year. I am looking into getting into this SA game.

Any suggestions / pointers on bay area SA? What is the rge typical PPM range in bay area? Is there any one area is better than other area in terms of price / attitude etc. Is ir better to look for girls more than 50 miles away from home?

Also why would a girl get premium membership? Does it mean she is pro?

Thanks.

Sam.[/QUOTE].

[QUOTE=Travel902;2510393]I have had good results without being able to speak Spanish, I just use a translator app. The SB's always start off with a higher price because of the area, Cabo being the most expensive area in all of Mexico. I offer about 2500 pesos, (125 USD) which I think is fair and if they argue I politely tell them that I am moving on. You can get WG here through the online paper for about 1500 pesos but the real pros are about 5000 pesos. Just my experience.[/QUOTE]Good info. Can you provide some details on your logistics and related recommendations, like where to stay, issues bringing girls into your hotel, and vanilla stuff too (restaurants, things to do)? Would love to hear more. I'm also considering the capital for a visit while most of the rest of the world is shut down to Americans. The CDMX board has good reports on the SA scene down there.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2510643]Bay area was my primary SA hunting grounds for almost two years. It is a lot of work. I was on SA about 15 hours a week. I would send out 20 messages per day, and see if I could get a nibble.

It's a numbers game with the Bay Area. Finding the new members is always best, but there are a lot of guys using SA in the Bay Area too. Some of the hot girls that I met told me that they would get a hundred messages every day. They are obviously exaggerating, but it is still telling.

Sure, you can stretch your search to 50 miles. That's what I did. But meet and greets and dates will eat up a lot of travel time. And the flake and cancellation rate was pretty high, which added to the time wasted. The gals are also playing a numbers game too. So, they might agree to meet you, but if something better comes along, then they cancel.

Going rate was 500 for PPM, which is exactly the going rate for a high quality pro in SF.

You can increase your success rate if are willing to date older gals, like over 30 or even over 40. If I were still in SF, I would probably skip SA and just do the FS AMPS..[/QUOTE]Same here. I don't have nearly the extent of experience in San Fran, but traveled there quite a bit over the last few years and tried pretty hard at the SA game. I can confirm it is a numbers game, and due to the size of the city and traffic, you have to account for logistics. To improve your odds, you should lower your expectations (or raise your budget considerably). If she looks like a dimepiece, she'll either have GPS, be an Instagram fake / flake, or just never see your message in her flooded inbox. And just forget the really hot Asians, no matter how tempting. I had a little success by targeting the 6-7's. I found this formula true of most metro areas, but somehow SF is the worst.

I have updated the table with new entries, thank you all for the additions. To all the silent readers: we know you are there. Please consider telling us about your experiences, the setting and how much it set you back.

[B]EUROPE[/B]

[B]Austria[/B]

Vienna [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449952&viewfull=1#post2449952]300 EUR for the Night[/URL].

[B]Czech Republic[/B]

Prague [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2491118&viewfull=1#post2491118]300 - 350 EUR[/URL] [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449952&viewfull=1#post2449952]200 EUR for the night[/URL] [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2445539&viewfull=1#post2445539]150 - 300 EUR[/URL].

[B]Germany[/B]

Berlin [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2491118&viewfull=1#post2491118]300 - 350 EUR[/URL] [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449952&viewfull=1#post2449952]500 EUR for the night[/URL].

Munich [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?683-Munich&p=1828248&viewfull=1#post1828248]300 EUR[/URL].

[B]Netherlands[/B]

Amsterdam [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/archive/index.php/t-4144-p-5.html?]200 EUR for a couple of hours. 300 for a whole night[/URL].

Generally [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2503694&viewfull=1#post2503694]200 - 300 EUR[/URL].

[B]Poland[/B]

Warsaw [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2491118&viewfull=1#post2491118]300 - 350 EUR[/URL].

[B]Portugal[/B]

Lisbon [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/archive/index.php/t-4144-p-5.html?]150 - 200 EUR for a couple of hours to a whole night, depending on girl[/URL] [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2499125&viewfull=1#post2499125]100 - 200 EUR[/URL].

[B]Russia[/B]

Moscow [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2503849&viewfull=1#post2503849]150 - 300 USD, Stunners from above 200 USD[/URL].

[B]Serbia[/B]

Belgrade [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?774-Belgrade&p=2135044&viewfull=1#post2135044]50 - 300 EUR - the worst looking on the lower end, playmate class on the high end[/URL].

[B]Spain[/B]

Barcelona [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449952&viewfull=1#post2449952] Full weekend: 300 EUR. Generally 200 - 500 EUR for a weekend. [/URL] [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2503687&viewfull=1#post2503687]200 EUR for standard[/URL].

[B]Ukraine[/B]

Kiev [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?816-Kiev&p=2493582&viewfull=1#post2493582]250 USD, disputed, several data points lower than that[/URL] [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?816-Kiev&p=2497541&viewfull=1#post2497541]140 - 180 USD (4000-5000 UAH)[/URL].

[B]United Kingdom[/B]

London [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2491118&viewfull=1#post2491118]300 - 350 EUR[/URL] [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2411854&viewfull=1#post2411854]350 Sterling[/URL].

[B]NORTH AMERICA[/B]

[B]United States[/B]

Atlanta [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449909&viewfull=1#post2449909]200 - 350 USD for a solid 6 to 8[/URL].

Austin [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2438062&viewfull=1#post2438062]400 - 500 USD[/URL].

Boston [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2417099&viewfull=1#post2417099]300 - 350 USD[/URL].

Chicago [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/archive/index.php/t-4144-p-5.html?]Under 300 USD is doable[/URL].

Denver [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2491118&viewfull=1#post2491118]200 USD[/URL].

Detroit [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449167&viewfull=1#post2449167]300 USD[/URL].

Houston [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2438062&viewfull=1#post2438062]400 - 500 USD[/URL].

Jacksonville (FL) [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449459&viewfull=1#post2449459]150 - 200 USD for a 6/7. 200 - 250 USD for a 7/8 college aged. 400 USD solid 9[/URL].

Las Vegas [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449167&viewfull=1#post2449167]400 USD[/URL].

LOS Angeles [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449167&viewfull=1#post2449167]200 USD second tier. 300 first tier.[/URL] [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2450228&viewfull=1#post2450228]300 USD[/URL].

Miami [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449167&viewfull=1#post2449167]300 USD[/URL].

Milwaukee [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/archive/index.php/t-4144-p-5.html?]Under 300 USD is doable[/URL].

Nashville [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449167&viewfull=1#post2449167]200 USD second tier. 300 first tier.[/URL].

New York City [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2491132&viewfull=1#post2491132]500 USD[/URL] [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449167&viewfull=1#post2449167]400 USD second tier, 500 USD first tier[/URL].

Philadelphia [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2444165&viewfull=1#post2444165]200 - 300 USD[/URL].

Portland [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2413337&viewfull=1#post2413337]300 USD[/URL].

San Antonio [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2438062&viewfull=1#post2438062]300 - 350 USD[/URL].

San Francisco [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2491132&viewfull=1#post2491132]500 USD[/URL] [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2448844&viewfull=1#post2448844]500 USD[/URL] [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2448831&viewfull=1#post2448831]300 USD for exchange student[/URL].

Savannah (GA) [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449459&viewfull=1#post2449459]150 - 200 USD for a 6/7. 200 - 250 USD for a 7/8 college aged. 400 USD solid 9[/URL].

[B]Canada[/B]

Montreal [URL=http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:QaWB7CxlZlwJ:www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/archive/index.php/t-4144.html%3Fs%3D6cb4edc971ca5ed61f0af1cf65f24f75+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=de]300 CAD (now with revised link, member account of source deleted)[/URL].

Niagara Falls [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2503912&viewfull=1#post2503912]250 - 300 CAD[/URL].

[B]Mexico[/B]

Cabo San Lucas [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2510393&viewfull=1#post2510393]2500 MXN[/URL].

Guadalajara [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?420-Guadalajara&p=2488711&viewfull=1#post2488711]2000 MXN+[/URL].

Mexico City [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2485508&viewfull=1#post2485508]1500 - 3000 MXN, possibly 4000 MXN for high-end.[/URL].

Monterrey [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2503849&viewfull=1#post2503849]3000 - 4500 MXN[/URL].

[B]SOUTH AMERICA[/B]

[B]Brazil[/B]

Sao Paulo [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2448768&viewfull=1#post2448768]800 Rs for model quality[/URL].

[B]Colombia[/B]

Medellin [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2448768&viewfull=1#post2448768]7-8 girl 100 USD todo la noche, 8.5 - 9 girl 100 - 200 USD all day[/URL] [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?583-Medellin-Reports&p=2419466&viewfull=1#post2419466]100 USD[/URL] [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?583-Medellin-Reports&p=2480746&viewfull=1#post2480746]200 - 500k COP[/URL].

[B]Peru[/B]

Cusco [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2448824&viewfull=1#post2448824]100 USD for whole weekend[/URL].

Lima [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?597-Lima&p=2194339&viewfull=1#post2194339]100 - 150 USD[/URL].

[B]AFRICA[/B]

[B]Egypt[/B]

Cairo [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?882-Egypt&p=2301374&viewfull=1#post2301374]2000 - 7000 EGP | note: prices for private escorts in CAI (college aged girls) run between a mere 1,5 k to 2 k for 2 hours which they have to share with a madame, a rate above 3k should be unreasonable[/URL].

[B]ASIA[/B]

[B]India[/B]

Note that many of the allowances referenced below might not sound like a lot to us but often exceed an entire monthly salary in India. Based on several opinions in the different threads, there is ample reason to assume that this has turned a lot of non-pros in to pro SBs. Scoring a gem in large metropolitan areas will require considerable effort. The low amount of profiles is also puzzling me. New Delhi (Radius 80 km): 1 k. Mumbai (Radius 80 km): 800.

Bangalore [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2448607&viewfull=1#post2448607]350 USD[/URL].

Delhi [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?959-New-Delhi&p=2490364&viewfull=1#post2490364]15.000 INR[/URL] [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?959-New-Delhi&p=2491116&viewfull=1#post2491116]8.000 - 30.000 INR[/URL].

Mumbai [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?954-Bombay-Mumbai&p=1901903&viewfull=1#post1901903]10.000 INR +[/URL].

Pune [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?954-Bombay-Mumbai&p=2499115&viewfull=1#post2499115]15.000 INR[/URL] [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?954-Bombay-Mumbai&p=2499046&viewfull=1#post2499046]40.000 INR for whole night[/URL].

[B]Japan[/B]

Tokyo [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?977-Tokyo&p=1900088&viewfull=1#post1900088]300 USD - 90 minutes, likely freelancer[/URL].

[B]Singapore[/B]

Singapore [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4020-Seeking-Arrangement&p=2219466&viewfull=1#post2219466]500 - 1000 SGD[/URL].

[B]United Arab Emirates[/B]

Dubai [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?3910-Sugar-Life&p=2381783&viewfull=1#post2381783]Depending on Tier: 400 - 800 USD[/URL].

[B]OCEANIA[/B]

[B]Australia[/B]

Sydney [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/archive/index.php/t-840-p-28.html?]400 - 500 AUD[/URL].

[QUOTE=Ailton;2511138]I have updated the table with new entries, thank you all for the additions. To all the silent readers: we know you are there. Please consider telling us about your experiences, the setting and how much it set you back.[/QUOTE]Many thanks.

Muchas gracia.

Dante.

[QUOTE=Ailton;2511138]I have updated the table with new entries, thank you all for the additions. To all the silent readers: we know you are there. Please consider telling us about your experiences, the setting and how much it set you back.

[/QUOTE]In about a year, when CV19 is behind us, your database is going to be a go-to resource for SA and domestic and international travelers. Thanks for doing this. Love the links to the source. I'm not sure everyone realizes that you can click on your data points to go to your source.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2511612]In about a year, when CV19 is behind us, your database is going to be a go-to resource for SA and domestic and international travelers. Thanks for doing this. Love the links to the source. I'm not sure everyone realizes that you can click on your data points to go to your source.[/QUOTE]I hope you are correct, but even with the vaccine, we are looking at least a year, probably 1.5 years. With additional lockdowns and restrictions going into place, the financial damage will be even worse then the Virus. There are just better ways to be handling the lockdowns, but this is not the place for that discussion.

I real have been pretty lucky with girls being on time, but lately I have had a couple girls show up extremely late, for the first meeting. That is the first strike, then I have absolutely zero tolerance if they of not look like there pictures. If they are super hot then no problem.

Yesterday I had to kick one to the curb, she was not bad looking but she was thick and 90 minutes late. What do you guys think?

The funny part she starts complaining about my Spanish, I reached in my wallet and said your pictures do not match here is Taxi money, Good Bye. If she was on time, I met have met with her for a lower price.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2511770]I real have been pretty lucky with girls being on time, but lately I have had a couple girls show up extremely late, for the first meeting. That is the first strike, then I have absolutely zero tolerance if they of not look like there pictures. If they are super hot then no problem.

Yesterday I had to kick one to the curb, she was not bad looking but she was thick and 90 minutes late. What do you guys think?

The funny part she starts complaining about my Spanish, I reached in my wallet and said your pictures do not match here is Taxi money, Good Bye. If she was on time, I met have met with her for a lower price.[/QUOTE]It is a blessing when an ugly girl shows up late. It gives you an easy out.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2511770]I real have been pretty lucky with girls being on time, but lately I have had a couple girls show up extremely late, for the first meeting. That is the first strike, then I have absolutely zero tolerance if they of not look like there pictures. If they are super hot then no problem.

Yesterday I had to kick one to the curb, she was not bad looking but she was thick and 90 minutes late. What do you guys think?

The funny part she starts complaining about my Spanish, I reached in my wallet and said your pictures do not match here is Taxi money, Good Bye. If she was on time, I met have met with her for a lower price.[/QUOTE]DF I think you are in Mexico or somewhere right now? If you are in Brazil an hour late is considered on time. You kick them to the curb you going to be jacking off a lot. LOL. So hard to ask generically. Depends on the venue — where u hanging these days?

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2511853]DF I think you are in Mexico or somewhere right now? If you are in Brazil an hour late is considered on time. You kick them to the curb you going to be jacking off a lot. LOL. So hard to ask generically. Depends on the venue where u hanging these days?[/QUOTE]I am hanging in Mexico, 30 minutes I can deal with, but more then that usually does not fly with me, unless they are very hot.

[QUOTE=Ailton;2511138]I have updated the table with new entries, thank you all for the additions. To all the silent readers: we know you are there. Please consider telling us about your experiences, the setting and how much it set you back.

[B]EUROPE[/B]

[B]Austria[/B]

Vienna [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449952&viewfull=1#post2449952]300 EUR for the Night[/URL].

[B]Czech Republic[/B]

Prague [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2491118&viewfull=1#post2491118]300 - 350 EUR[/URL] [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449952&viewfull=1#post2449952]200 EUR for the night[/URL] [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2445539&viewfull=1#post2445539]150 - 300 EUR[/URL].

[B]Germany[/B]

Berlin [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2491118&viewfull=1#post2491118]300 - 350 EUR[/URL] [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449952&viewfull=1#post2449952]500 EUR for the night[/URL].

Munich [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?683-Munich&p=1828248&viewfull=1#post1828248]300 EUR[/URL].

[B]Netherlands[/B]

Amsterdam [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/archive/index.php/t-4144-p-5.html?]200 EUR for a couple of hours. 300 for a whole night[/URL].

Generally [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2503694&viewfull=1#post2503694]200 - 300 EUR[/URL].

[B]Poland[/B]

Warsaw [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2491118&viewfull=1#post2491118]300 - 350 EUR[/URL].

[B]Portugal[/B]

Lisbon [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/archive/index.php/t-4144-p-5.html?]150 - 200 EUR for a couple of hours to a whole night, depending on girl[/URL] [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2499125&viewfull=1#post2499125]100 - 200 EUR[/URL].

[B]Russia[/B]

Moscow [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2503849&viewfull=1#post2503849]150 - 300 USD, Stunners from above 200 USD[/URL].

[B]Serbia[/B]

Belgrade [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?774-Belgrade&p=2135044&viewfull=1#post2135044]50 - 300 EUR - the worst looking on the lower end, playmate class on the high end[/URL].

[B]Spain[/B]

Barcelona [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449952&viewfull=1#post2449952] Full weekend: 300 EUR. Generally 200 - 500 EUR for a weekend. [/URL] [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2503687&viewfull=1#post2503687]200 EUR for standard[/URL].

[B]Ukraine[/B]

Kiev [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?816-Kiev&p=2493582&viewfull=1#post2493582]250 USD, disputed, several data points lower than that[/URL] [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?816-Kiev&p=2497541&viewfull=1#post2497541]140 - 180 USD (4000-5000 UAH)[/URL].

[B]United Kingdom[/B]

London [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2491118&viewfull=1#post2491118]300 - 350 EUR[/URL] [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2411854&viewfull=1#post2411854]350 Sterling[/URL].

[B]NORTH AMERICA[/B]

[B]United States[/B]

Atlanta [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449909&viewfull=1#post2449909]200 - 350 USD for a solid 6 to 8[/URL].

Austin [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2438062&viewfull=1#post2438062]400 - 500 USD[/URL].

Boston [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2417099&viewfull=1#post2417099]300 - 350 USD[/URL].

Chicago [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/archive/index.php/t-4144-p-5.html?]Under 300 USD is doable[/URL].

Denver [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2491118&viewfull=1#post2491118]200 USD[/URL].

Detroit [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449167&viewfull=1#post2449167]300 USD[/URL].

Houston [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2438062&viewfull=1#post2438062]400 - 500 USD[/URL].

Jacksonville (FL) [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449459&viewfull=1#post2449459]150 - 200 USD for a 6/7. 200 - 250 USD for a 7/8 college aged. 400 USD solid 9[/URL].

Las Vegas [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449167&viewfull=1#post2449167]400 USD[/URL].

LOS Angeles [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449167&viewfull=1#post2449167]200 USD second tier. 300 first tier.[/URL] [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2450228&viewfull=1#post2450228]300 USD[/URL].

Miami [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449167&viewfull=1#post2449167]300 USD[/URL].

Milwaukee [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/archive/index.php/t-4144-p-5.html?]Under 300 USD is doable[/URL].

Nashville [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449167&viewfull=1#post2449167]200 USD second tier. 300 first tier.[/URL].

New York City [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2491132&viewfull=1#post2491132]500 USD[/URL] [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449167&viewfull=1#post2449167]400 USD second tier, 500 USD first tier[/URL].

Philadelphia [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2444165&viewfull=1#post2444165]200 - 300 USD[/URL].

Portland [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2413337&viewfull=1#post2413337]300 USD[/URL].

San Antonio [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2438062&viewfull=1#post2438062]300 - 350 USD[/URL].

San Francisco [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2491132&viewfull=1#post2491132]500 USD[/URL] [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2448844&viewfull=1#post2448844]500 USD[/URL] [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2448831&viewfull=1#post2448831]300 USD for exchange student[/URL].

Savannah (GA) [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449459&viewfull=1#post2449459]150 - 200 USD for a 6/7. 200 - 250 USD for a 7/8 college aged. 400 USD solid 9[/URL].

[B]Canada[/B]

Montreal [URL=http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:QaWB7CxlZlwJ:www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/archive/index.php/t-4144.html%3Fs%3D6cb4edc971ca5ed61f0af1cf65f24f75+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=de]300 CAD (now with revised link, member account of source deleted)[/URL].

Niagara Falls [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2503912&viewfull=1#post2503912]250 - 300 CAD[/URL].

[B]Mexico[/B]

Cabo San Lucas [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2510393&viewfull=1#post2510393]2500 MXN[/URL].

Guadalajara [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?420-Guadalajara&p=2488711&viewfull=1#post2488711]2000 MXN+[/URL].

Mexico City [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2485508&viewfull=1#post2485508]1500 - 3000 MXN, possibly 4000 MXN for high-end.[/URL].

Monterrey [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2503849&viewfull=1#post2503849]3000 - 4500 MXN[/URL].

[B]SOUTH AMERICA[/B]

[B]Brazil[/B]

Sao Paulo [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2448768&viewfull=1#post2448768]800 Rs for model quality[/URL].

[B]Colombia[/B]

Medellin [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2448768&viewfull=1#post2448768]7-8 girl 100 USD todo la noche, 8.5 - 9 girl 100 - 200 USD all day[/URL] [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?583-Medellin-Reports&p=2419466&viewfull=1#post2419466]100 USD[/URL] [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?583-Medellin-Reports&p=2480746&viewfull=1#post2480746]200 - 500k COP[/URL].

[B]Peru[/B]

Cusco [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2448824&viewfull=1#post2448824]100 USD for whole weekend[/URL].

Lima [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?597-Lima&p=2194339&viewfull=1#post2194339]100 - 150 USD[/URL].

[B]AFRICA[/B]

[B]Egypt[/B]

Cairo [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?882-Egypt&p=2301374&viewfull=1#post2301374]2000 - 7000 EGP | note: prices for private escorts in CAI (college aged girls) run between a mere 1,5 k to 2 k for 2 hours which they have to share with a madame, a rate above 3k should be unreasonable[/URL].

[B]ASIA[/B]

[B]India[/B]

Note that many of the allowances referenced below might not sound like a lot to us but often exceed an entire monthly salary in India. Based on several opinions in the different threads, there is ample reason to assume that this has turned a lot of non-pros in to pro SBs. Scoring a gem in large metropolitan areas will require considerable effort. The low amount of profiles is also puzzling me. New Delhi (Radius 80 km): 1 k. Mumbai (Radius 80 km): 800.

Bangalore [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2448607&viewfull=1#post2448607]350 USD[/URL].

Delhi [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?959-New-Delhi&p=2490364&viewfull=1#post2490364]15.000 INR[/URL] [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?959-New-Delhi&p=2491116&viewfull=1#post2491116]8.000 - 30.000 INR[/URL].

Mumbai [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?954-Bombay-Mumbai&p=1901903&viewfull=1#post1901903]10.000 INR +[/URL].

Pune [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?954-Bombay-Mumbai&p=2499115&viewfull=1#post2499115]15.000 INR[/URL] [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?954-Bombay-Mumbai&p=2499046&viewfull=1#post2499046]40.000 INR for whole night[/URL].

[B]Japan[/B]

Tokyo [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?977-Tokyo&p=1900088&viewfull=1#post1900088]300 USD - 90 minutes, likely freelancer[/URL].

[B]Singapore[/B]

Singapore [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4020-Seeking-Arrangement&p=2219466&viewfull=1#post2219466]500 - 1000 SGD[/URL].

[B]United Arab Emirates[/B]

Dubai [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?3910-Sugar-Life&p=2381783&viewfull=1#post2381783]Depending on Tier: 400 - 800 USD[/URL].

[B]OCEANIA[/B]

[B]Australia[/B]

Sydney [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/archive/index.php/t-840-p-28.html?]400 - 500 AUD[/URL].[/QUOTE]OK you caught me. Bought my first subscription last June. Only met with 3 girls but bagged one of them a few times before the covid blow up scared me off. Took her to my house. She was 24 years old, a solid 9, 10 body 8 face, for $400 in San Diego.

[QUOTE=Akibono;2511199]Many thanks.

Muchas gracia.

Dante.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=Midwestern;2511612]In about a year, when CV19 is behind us, your database is going to be a go-to resource for SA and domestic and international travelers. Thanks for doing this. Love the links to the source. I'm not sure everyone realizes that you can click on your data points to go to your source.[/QUOTE]You are welcome guys!

[QUOTE=AmorPorFavor;2511898]OK you caught me. Bought my first subscription last June. Only met with 3 girls but bagged one of them a few times before the covid blow up scared me off. Took her to my house. She was 24 years old, a solid 9, 10 body 8 face, for $400 in San Diego.[/QUOTE]Thank you for that input. 400 Bucks for a solid 9 in San Diego sounds like a good deal.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2511853]DF I think you are in Mexico or somewhere right now? If you are in Brazil an hour late is considered on time. You kick them to the curb you going to be jacking off a lot. LOL. So hard to ask generically. Depends on the venue where u hanging these days?[/QUOTE]Yep Steve. I kind of chuckle when people get irate like they are dealing with mature, business people on the other end. They seem like they are on business trips and like their tight schedules. (I'm not referencing your comment Drama. There have been some members who have gotten very upset.).

Girls in Latin America are going to to do what they going to do with time.

This is a funny anecdote. I met this pretty morena Roberta in Rio. I arranged for her to come over around noon the day I was departing. She shows up almost three hours late after calling me several times to tell me she is on her way. She arrives and I look at my watch as I have a plane to catch. I can squeeze a session in before departing.

Anyways, as I am finishing my buddies are knocking on the door declaring that our driver has arrived. Roberta looks at me and says she thought I was here another week. Change of plans. I gave her cab fare to get home on top of our agreed upon sum. I always tell girls that I am going to be there for two weeks even if I'm leaving in a few days. That was advice someone here on ISG gave in order to ensure good GFE service.

Hi all my Bangalorean brothers.

My previous account got deactivated. This is bengaBoy (used to be known as 'K t y pea'. Spent most of the times banging in Kolkata specially the spas and SG (Sonagachi) and some ultimate bong indies. Its been 2 years in BLR, and I feel it's quite dry in terms of options and also bit costly. After a long thought, I decided to have some expedition in Bangalore. Though I had wonderful fucks in Bang with afros, indies (specially picking up from pubs). I mostly like girls in a very heavier side with thunder thighs and massive 'bums'. Tried MPs' in Kolkata and was quite wild. Hope I will be lucky enough to get help from other senior members in Bangalore during this initial encounters and I will continue to help my other monger brothers too. Going to activate my PM Soon. I would just say, may be it's a new beginning. Back in ISG after a span of 4 years. Thanks to all. Support this brother in banging with bangs!

Great that you shared this. This post is a ready reckoner for global mongers. My two cents about Indian girls:

You're right about the price range, they just jack up once they are on SA platform.

Cheers!

[QUOTE=Ailton;2511138]I have updated the table with new entries, thank you all for the additions. To all the silent readers: we know you are there. Please consider telling us about your experiences, the setting and how much it set you back.

[B]EUROPE[/B]

[B]Austria[/B]

Vienna [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449952&viewfull=1#post2449952]300 EUR for the Night[/URL].

[B]Czech Republic[/B]

Prague [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2491118&viewfull=1#post2491118]300 - 350 EUR[/URL] [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449952&viewfull=1#post2449952]200 EUR for the night[/URL] [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2445539&viewfull=1#post2445539]150 - 300 EUR[/URL].

[B]Germany[/B]

Berlin [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2491118&viewfull=1#post2491118]300 - 350 EUR[/URL] [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449952&viewfull=1#post2449952]500 EUR for the night[/URL].

Munich [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?683-Munich&p=1828248&viewfull=1#post1828248]300 EUR[/URL].

[B]Netherlands[/B]

Amsterdam [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/archive/index.php/t-4144-p-5.html?]200 EUR for a couple of hours. 300 for a whole night[/URL].

Generally [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2503694&viewfull=1#post2503694]200 - 300 EUR[/URL].

[B]Poland[/B]

Warsaw [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2491118&viewfull=1#post2491118]300 - 350 EUR[/URL].

[B]Portugal[/B]

Lisbon [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/archive/index.php/t-4144-p-5.html?]150 - 200 EUR for a couple of hours to a whole night, depending on girl[/URL] [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2499125&viewfull=1#post2499125]100 - 200 EUR[/URL].

[B]Russia[/B]

Moscow [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2503849&viewfull=1#post2503849]150 - 300 USD, Stunners from above 200 USD[/URL].

[B]Serbia[/B]

Belgrade [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?774-Belgrade&p=2135044&viewfull=1#post2135044]50 - 300 EUR - the worst looking on the lower end, playmate class on the high end[/URL].

[B]Spain[/B]

Barcelona [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449952&viewfull=1#post2449952] Full weekend: 300 EUR. Generally 200 - 500 EUR for a weekend. [/URL] [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2503687&viewfull=1#post2503687]200 EUR for standard[/URL].

[B]Ukraine[/B]

Kiev [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?816-Kiev&p=2493582&viewfull=1#post2493582]250 USD, disputed, several data points lower than that[/URL] [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?816-Kiev&p=2497541&viewfull=1#post2497541]140 - 180 USD (4000-5000 UAH)[/URL].

[B]United Kingdom[/B]

London [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2491118&viewfull=1#post2491118]300 - 350 EUR[/URL] [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2411854&viewfull=1#post2411854]350 Sterling[/URL].

[B]NORTH AMERICA[/B]

[B]United States[/B]

Atlanta [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449909&viewfull=1#post2449909]200 - 350 USD for a solid 6 to 8[/URL].

Austin [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2438062&viewfull=1#post2438062]400 - 500 USD[/URL].

Boston [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2417099&viewfull=1#post2417099]300 - 350 USD[/URL].

Chicago [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/archive/index.php/t-4144-p-5.html?]Under 300 USD is doable[/URL].

Denver [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2491118&viewfull=1#post2491118]200 USD[/URL].

Detroit [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449167&viewfull=1#post2449167]300 USD[/URL].

Houston [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2438062&viewfull=1#post2438062]400 - 500 USD[/URL].

Jacksonville (FL) [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449459&viewfull=1#post2449459]150 - 200 USD for a 6/7. 200 - 250 USD for a 7/8 college aged. 400 USD solid 9[/URL].

Las Vegas [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449167&viewfull=1#post2449167]400 USD[/URL].

LOS Angeles [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449167&viewfull=1#post2449167]200 USD second tier. 300 first tier.[/URL] [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2450228&viewfull=1#post2450228]300 USD[/URL].

Miami [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449167&viewfull=1#post2449167]300 USD[/URL].

Milwaukee [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/archive/index.php/t-4144-p-5.html?]Under 300 USD is doable[/URL].

Nashville [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449167&viewfull=1#post2449167]200 USD second tier. 300 first tier.[/URL].

New York City [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2491132&viewfull=1#post2491132]500 USD[/URL] [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449167&viewfull=1#post2449167]400 USD second tier, 500 USD first tier[/URL].

Philadelphia [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2444165&viewfull=1#post2444165]200 - 300 USD[/URL].

Portland [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2413337&viewfull=1#post2413337]300 USD[/URL].

San Antonio [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2438062&viewfull=1#post2438062]300 - 350 USD[/URL].

San Francisco [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2491132&viewfull=1#post2491132]500 USD[/URL] [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2448844&viewfull=1#post2448844]500 USD[/URL] [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2448831&viewfull=1#post2448831]300 USD for exchange student[/URL].

Savannah (GA) [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449459&viewfull=1#post2449459]150 - 200 USD for a 6/7. 200 - 250 USD for a 7/8 college aged. 400 USD solid 9[/URL].

[B]Canada[/B]

Montreal [URL=http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:QaWB7CxlZlwJ:www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/archive/index.php/t-4144.html%3Fs%3D6cb4edc971ca5ed61f0af1cf65f24f75+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=de]300 CAD (now with revised link, member account of source deleted)[/URL].

Niagara Falls [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2503912&viewfull=1#post2503912]250 - 300 CAD[/URL].

[B]Mexico[/B]

Cabo San Lucas [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2510393&viewfull=1#post2510393]2500 MXN[/URL].

Guadalajara [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?420-Guadalajara&p=2488711&viewfull=1#post2488711]2000 MXN+[/URL].

Mexico City [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2485508&viewfull=1#post2485508]1500 - 3000 MXN, possibly 4000 MXN for high-end.[/URL].

Monterrey [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2503849&viewfull=1#post2503849]3000 - 4500 MXN[/URL].

[B]SOUTH AMERICA[/B]

[B]Brazil[/B]

Sao Paulo [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2448768&viewfull=1#post2448768]800 Rs for model quality[/URL].

[B]Colombia[/B]

Medellin [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2448768&viewfull=1#post2448768]7-8 girl 100 USD todo la noche, 8.5 - 9 girl 100 - 200 USD all day[/URL] [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?583-Medellin-Reports&p=2419466&viewfull=1#post2419466]100 USD[/URL] [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?583-Medellin-Reports&p=2480746&viewfull=1#post2480746]200 - 500k COP[/URL].

[B]Peru[/B]

Cusco [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2448824&viewfull=1#post2448824]100 USD for whole weekend[/URL].

Lima [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?597-Lima&p=2194339&viewfull=1#post2194339]100 - 150 USD[/URL].

[B]AFRICA[/B]

[B]Egypt[/B]

Cairo [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?882-Egypt&p=2301374&viewfull=1#post2301374]2000 - 7000 EGP | note: prices for private escorts in CAI (college aged girls) run between a mere 1,5 k to 2 k for 2 hours which they have to share with a madame, a rate above 3k should be unreasonable[/URL].

[B]ASIA[/B]

[B]India[/B]

Note that many of the allowances referenced below might not sound like a lot to us but often exceed an entire monthly salary in India. Based on several opinions in the different threads, there is ample reason to assume that this has turned a lot of non-pros in to pro SBs. Scoring a gem in large metropolitan areas will require considerable effort. The low amount of profiles is also puzzling me. New Delhi (Radius 80 km): 1 k. Mumbai (Radius 80 km): 800.

Bangalore [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2448607&viewfull=1#post2448607]350 USD[/URL].

Delhi [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?959-New-Delhi&p=2490364&viewfull=1#post2490364]15.000 INR[/URL] [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?959-New-Delhi&p=2491116&viewfull=1#post2491116]8.000 - 30.000 INR[/URL].

Mumbai [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?954-Bombay-Mumbai&p=1901903&viewfull=1#post1901903]10.000 INR +[/URL].

Pune [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?954-Bombay-Mumbai&p=2499115&viewfull=1#post2499115]15.000 INR[/URL] [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?954-Bombay-Mumbai&p=2499046&viewfull=1#post2499046]40.000 INR for whole night[/URL].

[B]Japan[/B]

Tokyo [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?977-Tokyo&p=1900088&viewfull=1#post1900088]300 USD - 90 minutes, likely freelancer[/URL].

[B]Singapore[/B]

Singapore [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4020-Seeking-Arrangement&p=2219466&viewfull=1#post2219466]500 - 1000 SGD[/URL].

[B]United Arab Emirates[/B]

Dubai [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?3910-Sugar-Life&p=2381783&viewfull=1#post2381783]Depending on Tier: 400 - 800 USD[/URL].

[B]OCEANIA[/B]

[B]Australia[/B]

Sydney [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/archive/index.php/t-840-p-28.html?]400 - 500 AUD[/URL].[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Ailton;2511902]You are welcome guys!

Thank you for that input. 400 Bucks for a solid 9 in San Diego sounds like a good deal.[/QUOTE]It was a good deal considering no travel allowed. I was very happy with her. She had an incredible body but I was scheduled for knee surgery and couldn't risk catching Covid and having it cancelled. It was already delayed 3 months because of the shut down of "elective" surgery. The youngsters in town were running around like nothing was wrong all summer and I couldn't for sure know what she was up to the rest of the time even though she said she wasn't going out much. After I get vaccinated I'm going to get back on SA.

Tuesday I had meeting with new girl from SA after the disaster of Monday. She show up a little short, but very cute and super nice. We go grab coffee, very nice conversation. 20 minutes she goes are you ready to start the arrangement. I say Hell! She looked better with her clothes off. Unbelievable session including 2 sessions of Anal. I am back in the Game!

She will definitely be a regular moving forward. I love MTY and SA. This would never happen in the states, Europe and parts of Latin America possible.

There is a thread called Sugar Life that is mostly UAE I think. Anyhow there is an epic story in there. Starts at post 825 here:

[URL]http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?3910-Sugar-Life&p=2499590&viewfull=1[/URL]#post2499590.

It's pretty amazing with two girls, a client, private chef, renting Maserati's and a boat. With a Russian and Ukrainian for sex on demand. Super epic read.

[QUOTE=SfoCowboy;2512037]Great that you shared this. This post is a ready reckoner for global mongers. My two cents about Indian girls:

You're right about the price range, they just jack up once they are on SA platform.

Cheers![/QUOTE]You have made a quite substantial post some time ago about several of your encounters with SA girls ([URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2448607&viewfull=1#post2448607]click[/URL]. If you still recall the allowances, would be commendable if you could tell a bit more about what you paid (Hyderabad, Delhi, Prague, Barcelona).

As far as India is concerned, I have been only to Delhi so far and utilised the services of an overpriced MP with girls that were 6 at best. It almost drove tears into my eyes seeing what was actually walking around in Delhi when roaming through the malls of Vasant Kunj. I am looking to go back soon and use SA this time, but I am more than unwilling to pay more than 10 k INR there. Lets see how that goes. If the numbers of profiles on SA increase, the situation with the allowances should improve. However, the mongerers' willingness to overpay seems to be a general problem in India with SA. Can't blame the girls who simply make use of that.

[QUOTE=AmorPorFavor;2512063]It was a good deal considering no travel allowed. I was very happy with her. She had an incredible body but I was scheduled for knee surgery and couldn't risk catching Covid and having it cancelled. It was already delayed 3 months because of the shut down of "elective" surgery. The youngsters in town were running around like nothing was wrong all summer and I couldn't for sure know what she was up to the rest of the time even though she said she wasn't going out much. After I get vaccinated I'm going to get back on SA.[/QUOTE]Looking around the profiles in the SD area, that city seems to be blessed with solid 8's and 9's.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2512076]Tuesday I had meeting with new girl from SA after the disaster of Monday. She show up a little short, but very cute and super nice. We go grab coffee, very nice conversation. 20 minutes she goes are you ready to start the arrangement. I say Hell! She looked better with her clothes off. Unbelievable session including 2 sessions of Anal. I am back in the Game!

She will definitely be a regular moving forward. I love MTY and SA. This would never happen in the states, Europe and parts of Latin America possible.[/QUOTE]This would definitely not happen outside Latin America, well done! I was looking into the possibility of a small mongering vacation in the Americas, specifically Brazil and Mexico. Based on what you guys are saying, Mexico seems to be an awesome destination for that. Girls' attitudes are great and side-costs low.

[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2511994]I always tell girls that I am going to be there for two weeks even if I'm leaving in a few days. That was advice someone here on ISG gave in order to ensure good GFE service.[/QUOTE]That is absolutely sound advice. The prospect of repetition not only increases the quality of service, it will decrease the allowance too and improve punctuality.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2512117]There is a thread called Sugar Life that is mostly UAE I think. Anyhow there is an epic story in there. Starts at post 825 here:

[URL]http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?3910-Sugar-Life&p=2499590&viewfull=1[/URL]#post2499590.

It's pretty amazing with two girls, a client, private chef, renting Maserati's and a boat. With a Russian and Ukrainian for sex on demand. Super epic read.[/QUOTE]Just read the entire thing. Absolutely hilarious!

[QUOTE=Ailton;2512122]You have made a quite substantial post some time ago about several of your encounters with SA girls ([URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2448607&viewfull=1#post2448607]click[/URL]. If you still recall the allowances, would be commendable if you could tell a bit more about what you paid (Hyderabad, Delhi, Prague, Barcelona).

As far as India is concerned, I have been only to Delhi so far and utilised the services of an overpriced MP with girls that were 6 at best. It almost drove tears into my eyes seeing what was actually walking around in Delhi when roaming through the malls of Vasant Kunj. I am looking to go back soon and use SA this time, but I am more than unwilling to pay more than 10 k INR there. Lets see how that goes. If the numbers of profiles on SA increase, the situation with the allowances should improve. However, the mongerers' willingness to overpay seems to be a general problem in India with SA. Can't blame the girls who simply make use of that.

Looking around the profiles in the SD area, that city seems to be blessed with solid 8's and 9's.

This would definitely not happen outside Latin America, well done! I was looking into the possibility of a small mongering vacation in the Americas, specifically Brazil and Mexico. Based on what you guys are saying, Mexico seems to be an awesome destination for that. Girls' attitudes are great and side-costs low.

That is absolutely sound advice. The prospect of repetition not only increases the quality of service, it will decrease the allowance too and improve punctuality.

Just read the entire thing. Absolutely hilarious![/QUOTE]Rio is a major let down to me. I do not know about the other cities in Brazil, probably a little better. Brazil made Columbia look good. I think both places are terrible, and way overrated.

[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2511994]Y I always tell girls that I am going to be there for two weeks even if I'm leaving in a few days. That was advice someone here on ISG gave in order to ensure good GFE service.[/QUOTE]Yep, me too. If we are meeting at my hotel, I always tell them that I am staying longer than I really am. But if we are meeting outside, I tell them that I live there, LOL!!

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2512176]Rio is a major let down to me. I do not know about the other cities in Brazil, probably a little better. Brazil made Columbia look good. I think both places are terrible, and way overrated.[/QUOTE]DF,

You have to hang with me in Bogota. It will be the time of your life. Also, Sao Paulo blows Rio away. I was really disappointed with Rio.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2512285]DF,

You have to hang with me in Bogota. It will be the time of your life. Also, Sao Paulo blows Rio away. I was really disappointed with Rio.[/QUOTE]Do you by any chance know whether the allowance mentioned in our table for SP is accurate?

Do you guys think someone who is 25-30 in SA looking for a SB will be seen as weird? LOL.

[QUOTE=Ailton;2512309]Do you by any chance know whether the allowance mentioned in our table for SP is accurate?[/QUOTE]I've found a super strong correlation between escort 1 HR prices and SB evening of fun. In SP pre-Covid I could easily score a top semi-pro girl for 400-500R. And prices have come down since. I'd be amazed if you can't get a great SB in Sao Paulo for 400 R ($USD80!) Of course really the thing to do in SP is the Boate. I just can't do SB in SP because the Boates are so awesome.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2512451]I've found a super strong correlation between escort 1 HR prices and SB evening of fun. In SP pre-Covid I could easily score a top semi-pro girl for 400-500R. And prices have come down since. I'd be amazed if you can't get a great SB in Sao Paulo for 400 R ($USD80!) Of course really the thing to do in SP is the Boate. I just can't do SB in SP because the Boates are so awesome.[/QUOTE]I got quote of 800 R for several hours. I did not make the trip due to the pandemic.

[QUOTE=Nuupter;2512371]Do you guys think someone who is 25-30 in SA looking for a SB will be seen as weird? LOL.[/QUOTE]If you are under 30, I might add 10 years to your age. These gals go onto SA specifically to meet older rich guys. I've been told by some SBs that the younger guys on the site are aZZholes, and now they screen out younger guys. But this was for the SF market, where a some of the young guys were rich nerds that gotten beaten up in HS and are now taking it out on SBs. Yeah, huge generalization, I know.

BTW, if you are under 30, then why not just use Tinder and get laid for free? If it's an issue with showing your face, well, for most non-pros, they want to see what you look like before the meetup, generally speaking. So, not sure why you'd use SA instead of Tinder. At my age, I cannot easily score a young hottie on Tinder. But I can score them on SA.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2512451]I've found a super strong correlation between escort 1 HR prices and SB evening of fun. In SP pre-Covid I could easily score a top semi-pro girl for 400-500R. And prices have come down since. I'd be amazed if you can't get a great SB in Sao Paulo for 400 R ($USD80!) Of course really the thing to do in SP is the Boate. I just can't do SB in SP because the Boates are so awesome.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=Nounce;2512490]I got quote of 800 R for several hours. I did not make the trip due to the pandemic.[/QUOTE]Its good to know that 800 is on the higher end and gives room for negotiation: 400-500 Rs sounds like a dream come true and an invitation to fill two weeks with daily pleasures LOL. I had originally thought that 800 might be on the lower end, but that was likely due to the fact that what is on offer in the SP area, is absolute eye-candy.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2512511]If you are under 30, I might add 10 years to your age. These gals go onto SA specifically to meet older rich guys. I've been told by some SBs that the younger guys on the site are aZZholes, and now they screen out younger guys. But this was for the SF market, where a some of the young guys were rich nerds that gotten beaten up in HS and are now taking it out on SBs. Yeah, huge generalization, I know.

BTW, if you are under 30, then why not just use Tinder and get laid for free? If it's an issue with showing your face, well, for most non-pros, they want to see what you look like before the meetup, generally speaking. So, not sure why you'd use SA instead of Tinder. At my age, I cannot easily score a young hottie on Tinder. But I can score them on SA.[/QUOTE]Tinder? Well they either fat, ugly or real fat in there I won't do it even if she begged me LOL. But I mainly search outside of US like Brazil etc. Some good lookers in Florida though.

[QUOTE=Nuupter;2512371]Do you guys think someone who is 25-30 in SA looking for a SB will be seen as weird? LOL.[/QUOTE]That's an interesting question. I'm sure some girls would be skittish that it was too close to hooking. With the SB / SD relationship, there is the veneer of mentoring and taking care of the young woman.

I'm sure other girls would take you up on it. If you are a good digital communicator and fun, it would be no problem for many girls.

I'd advise you to go to Sao Paulo and go to the clubs that cater to men and female escorts. When I was young, many Brazilian escorts were very happy to party and have fun with a guy not much older than them. If you strike a connection, they will stay overnight and hang with you the next day. Of course money is underneath the surface, but these girls will make you feel like a boyfriend and fuck your brains out.

Steve here is very active on the Sao Paulo forum here and he has made some great connections in Brazil. That's why Steve commented that there's no reason to spend time searching for sugar babies in Sao Paulo.

I also know for me traveling overseas when I was young made me more confident with women. I got laid so much on overseas trips. It was like attractive women had no special hold over me.

[QUOTE=Nuupter;2512606]Tinder? Well they either fat, ugly or real fat in there I won't do it even if she begged me LOL. But I mainly search outside of US like Brazil etc. Some good lookers in Florida though.[/QUOTE]Have to go with Nuupter on this. 95% of Tinder girls in my area are fat or ugly or both. The 5% good looking are just marketing their insta or snap or onlyfans or looking to scam you. Total ghost town for good looking real girls.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2512285]DF,

You have to hang with me in Bogota. It will be the time of your life. Also, Sao Paulo blows Rio away. I was really disappointed with Rio.[/QUOTE]Sounds like a plan. I did spend a little time in Bogota. I liked it much better the MTE. I also kind of want to go to Sao Paulo. 2021, when the virus is behind us we can plan a trip. Take care.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2512511]If you are under 30, I might add 10 years to your age. These gals go onto SA specifically to meet older rich guys. I've been told by some SBs that the younger guys on the site are aZZholes, and now they screen out younger guys. But this was for the SF market, where a some of the young guys were rich nerds that gotten beaten up in HS and are now taking it out on SBs. Yeah, huge generalization, I know.

BTW, if you are under 30, then why not just use Tinder and get laid for free? If it's an issue with showing your face, well, for most non-pros, they want to see what you look like before the meetup, generally speaking. So, not sure why you'd use SA instead of Tinder. At my age, I cannot easily score a young hottie on Tinder. But I can score them on SA.[/QUOTE]Would be a nice revenge for those nerds that was bullied by these girls they can't get, and now these nerds are richer than them and can afford them LOL. Nice turn of karma right there. Ha.

[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2512637]That's an interesting question. I'm sure some girls would be skittish that it was too close to hooking. With the SB / SD relationship, there is the veneer of mentoring and taking care of the young woman.

I'm sure other girls would take you up on it. If you are a good digital communicator and fun, it would be no problem for many girls.

I'd advise you to go to Sao Paulo and go to the clubs that cater to men and female escorts. When I was young, many Brazilian escorts were very happy to party and have fun with a guy not much older than them. If you strike a connection, they will stay overnight and hang with you the next day. Of course money is underneath the surface, but these girls will make you feel like a boyfriend and fuck your brains out.

Steve here is very active on the Sao Paulo forum here and he has made some great connections in Brazil. That's why Steve commented that there's no reason to spend time searching for sugar babies in Sao Paulo.

I also know for me traveling overseas when I was young made me more confident with women. I got laid so much on overseas trips. It was like attractive women had no special hold over me.[/QUOTE]Yeah, I might just end up going to clubs, Just wanted to see if I can get to know and befriend some normal girls, as from their descriptions, many just wants to make friends, FWB etc, and make connections.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2512647]Sounds like a plan. I did spend a little time in Bogota. I liked it much better the MTE. I also kind of want to go to Sao Paulo. 2021, when the virus is behind us we can plan a trip. Take care.[/QUOTE]These are the three that I had seeking dates with when I was in Bogota. I met up with Don Carlos and he had been able to spend more time there than I had and he did even better.

Anyway, two of the three dates were home runs. I might call up the other girl if I return and see if she is up for some BCD fun. I think she wanted me to pursue her harder, and I might just do that.

MTY and to a lesser degree GDL have gotten crazy good. I am seeing quality like I have not seen in MTY before, and I should be headed there the first week of January.

I met a Mexican lawyer on seeking. IMO she is a 10 and we met in Puerto Vallarta. I had points with a hotel and air fares from where I am were cheap and of course in Mexico is cheap too. You do not have the white sand and blue water of Cancun or Cozumel, but the surrounding scenery was gorgeous and the temperatures were great.

To me the best part of seeking is not having to pay crazy amounts to have a few day vacation with a girl. Even though I am like 30 years older than this woman, she is tall, looks mature, and showed the world she was crazy about me. I do not think she is the prettiest SB I have been with but I think she may be the one who gets the most stares.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2512800]MTY and to a lesser degree GDL have gotten crazy good. I am seeing quality like I have not seen in MTY before, and I should be headed there the first week of January.

I met a Mexican lawyer on seeking. IMO she is a 10 and we met in Puerto Vallarta. I had points with a hotel and air fares from where I am were cheap and of course in Mexico is cheap too. You do not have the white sand and blue water of Cancun or Cozumel, but the surrounding scenery was gorgeous and the temperatures were great.

To me the best part of seeking is not having to pay crazy amounts to have a few day vacation with a girl. Even though I am like 30 years older than this woman, she is tall, looks mature, and showed the world she was crazy about me. I do not think she is the prettiest SB I have been with but I think she may be the one who gets the most stares.[/QUOTE]I liked GDL, but I had trouble meeting High Quality girls, and the food was so good, maybe even better then Tijuana. But the Higher end girls were not available then. I am sure with the lockdowns it is a little better now. I also know a couple of girls that traveled to GDL because the Strip Clubs are open there.

MTY is out of control at the moment. Most girls can speak English, well Educated, Super Cute, and dress appropriately. I am hanging out in San Pedro, I do not want to give the impression that you can go High quality girls in central MTY, I do not think it will happen. I also I am paying between $150-200, but that is for all night or several hours. Time is usually not an issue in Mexico, like the states.

India is the trickiest place for SA mongering. Delhi has the best collection within India. I'm not sure if 10 K INR could get you something nice but it could. May be a 20% chance. 15 k to 25 k inr could definitely get you a decent bird. People who don't know the value of money just throw crazy money on girls. Can't help it. We are discussing this here coz we value our money...

[QUOTE=Ailton;2512122]You have made a quite substantial post some time ago about several of your encounters with SA girls ([URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2448607&viewfull=1#post2448607]click[/URL]. If you still recall the allowances, would be commendable if you could tell a bit more about what you paid (Hyderabad, Delhi, Prague, Barcelona).

As far as India is concerned, I have been only to Delhi so far and utilised the services of an overpriced MP with girls that were 6 at best. It almost drove tears into my eyes seeing what was actually walking around in Delhi when roaming through the malls of Vasant Kunj. I am looking to go back soon and use SA this time, but I am more than unwilling to pay more than 10 k INR there. Lets see how that goes. If the numbers of profiles on SA increase, the situation with the allowances should improve. However, the mongerers' willingness to overpay seems to be a general problem in India with SA. Can't blame the girls who simply make use of that.

Looking around the profiles in the SD area, that city seems to be blessed with solid 8's and 9's.

This would definitely not happen outside Latin America, well done! I was looking into the possibility of a small mongering vacation in the Americas, specifically Brazil and Mexico. Based on what you guys are saying, Mexico seems to be an awesome destination for that. Girls' attitudes are great and side-costs low.

That is absolutely sound advice. The prospect of repetition not only increases the quality of service, it will decrease the allowance too and improve punctuality.

Just read the entire thing. Absolutely hilarious![/QUOTE]

Anybody have any recommendations for last minute travel over NYE? For Americans, there are not many options, but Mexico is open to flights and has a fairly vibrant SA scene from various posters. Cabo and CDMX seem to be particularly attractive. Would like to hear from the experienced SA travelers out there.

[QUOTE=CarloRogue;2512987]Anybody have any recommendations for last minute travel over NYE? For Americans, there are not many options, but Mexico is open to flights and has a fairly vibrant SA scene from various posters. Cabo and CDMX seem to be particularly attractive. Would like to hear from the experienced SA travelers out there.[/QUOTE]Carlo,

Everything I have read about Cabo is that it sucks hobby wise. Cabo has 80,000 people. CDMX metro area has 21 million.

Because IMO of its proximity to the USA sex prison, I found that higher end choices were 50 to 100% more in Monterrey than in CDMX and that was true with seeking and with hookers, but the quality looks and performance wise was better in CDMX than Monterrey. With Guadalajara, I was blown off by seeking girls and had no luck there but that was in a preCovid world. The hooker talent was as good as CDMX but at about half the price.

To me, the big plus with Monterrey is how close it is. You can get there with an easy six to nine hour bus ride from almost every major Texas city or a cheap flight. It is beautiful and modern, however you see USA attitudes with Mexican women.

There are only a handful of American cities I would choose to live in over CDMX. I am stunned not everyone is talking about how great the city is, however you have to be able to stomach the traffic, altitude, and pollution. If you can, it is phenomenal. I did not have the success in CDMX until Covid hit. Then my first trip post Covid netted me four 10's. All but one of these women have been snapped up so the hottest women do not stay on the site for long, so you have to move fast.

If you cannot handle the altitude or pollution, Guadalajara is your best bet. I love the weather there and I saw so many hotties but for some reason these hot women were not seen on the escort sites. Maybe in a Covid world some are now available. Puerto Vallarta is a 4 hour bus ride away so if you do find a hottie, going to the beach with them is an easy ride.

With the Cancun area, do not bother with the hobby. Outside of casas set up for locals, you are looking at US prices for pussy. I always brought a woman from CDMX to go to Cancun.

If you are flexible, check on the Covid status. Mexico seems to shut down entire cities for weeks at a time anytime the Covid numbers go up.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2513061]Carlo,

Everything I have read about Cabo is that it sucks hobby wise. Cabo has 80,000 people. CDMX metro area has 21 million.

Because IMO of its proximity to the USA sex prison, I found that higher end choices were 50 to 100% more in Monterrey than in CDMX and that was true with seeking and with hookers, but the quality looks and performance wise was better in CDMX than Monterrey. With Guadalajara, I was blown off by seeking girls and had no luck there but that was in a preCovid world. The hooker talent was as good as CDMX but at about half the price.

To me, the big plus with Monterrey is how close it is. You can get there with an easy six to nine hour bus ride from almost every major Texas city or a cheap flight. It is beautiful and modern, however you see USA attitudes with Mexican women.[/QUOTE]Awesome report. I agree 100%.

For me here is my list for SA.

1. MTY.

2. Tijuana / CDMC a tie.

3. GDL, I love GDL, but only if I have a girlfriend there or for a weekend. If you are into 5'/6's it is good place. Food and people are great. Strip bars are cool, but very expensive. It was very difficult for me to meet Higher End girls as well. I thought it would have been much easier, but I had problems with finding girls 6's above that wanted to meet. The weird part was at the time I was meeting a lot of hot girls in Tijuana from GDL, but when I lived there it was very different. Also, some of the girls have a lot of same qualities of the girls I met in MDE, (lazy, jealous and uneducated) GDL is much better, for all other aspects of life then MDE. You probably get more 7/8's in MDE honestly.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2513061]Carlo,

Everything I have read about Cabo is that it sucks hobby wise. Cabo has 80,000 people. CDMX metro area has 21 million.

Because IMO of its proximity to the USA sex prison, I found that higher end choices were 50 to 100% more in Monterrey than in CDMX and that was true with seeking and with hookers, but the quality looks and performance wise was better in CDMX than Monterrey. With Guadalajara, I was blown off by seeking girls and had no luck there but that was in a preCovid world. The hooker talent was as good as CDMX but at about half the price.

To me, the big plus with Monterrey is how close it is. You can get there with an easy six to nine hour bus ride from almost every major Texas city or a cheap flight. It is beautiful and modern, however you see USA attitudes with Mexican women.

There are only a handful of American cities I would choose to live in over CDMX. I am stunned not everyone is talking about how great the city is, however you have to be able to stomach the traffic, altitude, and pollution. If you can, it is phenomenal. I did not have the success in CDMX until Covid hit. Then my first trip post Covid netted me four 10's. All but one of these women have been snapped up so the hottest women do not stay on the site for long, so you have to move fast..[/QUOTE]You've got me sold on CDMX. I've been reading the boards here for a while and between the SA scene, albercadas, and Mexican porn stars on twitter, this city is high on my bucket list, and hopefully a repeat destination. Any recommendations for new year's eve, or around that weekend? I'm pretty savvy with SA already, but love the group scene and really want to try some parties. Also, any high-end hotels that are solidly girl friendly? I like to be near the sights and best restaurant districts, and happy to spend for convenience and luxury. Someone mentioned the W hotel presidential suite, which sounds like a fun splurge.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2513408]Awesome report. The weird part was at the time I was meeting a lot of hot girls in Tijuana from GDL, but when I lived there it was very different. [/QUOTE]LOL. DF, I noticed the same shit. When I went to Tijuana and Hong Kong, I met a 9 there from GDL, best woman I met at HK, and I never saw anyone near her looks wise close to her.

[QUOTE=CarloRogue;2513461]Also, any high-end hotels that are solidly girl friendly? I like to be near the sights and best restaurant districts, and happy to spend for convenience and luxury. Someone mentioned the W hotel presidential suite, which sounds like a fun splurge.[/QUOTE]The top chic area in CDMX is Polanco. Two and three are Condesa and Roma. FWIW, Roma is probably my favorite. Fourth is probably Reforma. So you should look at Polanco.

With hotels, it used to be that they were all guest friendly but I am not sure you can make any definite plans in a Covid world. Shit, I used to have the concierge deliver the hookers to my room, got to love Mexico!!

There is a sex hotel named Hotel Patriotismo in Polanco, and no woman will refuse to come there, and I doubt you will have any problems with visitors. It is actually a good place to party. I had a nice suite with a stripper pole in it. You can book a room there on [URL]booking.com[/URL] or kayak. I liked it so much that I would stay there as a regular hotel even without the sex.

For food, watch somebody feed Phil on Netflix when he goes to CDMX. Of all the places he went and I did, my favorite was Panderia Rosetta (bakery) in Roma. Do you know how good the fucking baked goods are there? I bought a half dozen items to bring back to the USA and I ate them all myself. I could not resist. I try not to go there every day for breakfast but I cannot help myself. There is a lovely park near by. I bought a baguette, ate that and other things and fed the birds my shared bread, really nice time.

As for hookers, Raven Lawson performs like a 10 and if you look on Twitter, there are two Venezuelan hard bodies that IMO have 10 bodies.

For seeking women, ScorpyK is a Colombian 10 in CDMX but high $$$ and speaks English. I never got a sample with her but if you are willing to pay big $$, she will satisfy you looks wise. [URL]https://www.seeking.com/member/71d6e243-e635-4cb2-8296-269025f7dc7c[/URL].

Vaneru is as sweet as can be and gives great head. Looks wise, I would call her an 8 but she works out and is really toned: [URL]https://www.seeking.com/member/1166a760-5aaa-4699-a775-3d22351bac88[/URL].

There was a little one named Fit and Hot Girl on seeking but I do not see her profile. She fucked the shit out of me then blew me off for 2 days when I returned. She is a sexual dynamo when she is in the mood.

I will say though with CDMX always have a plan be because the flake factor is high.

And finally, my favorite hotel in CDMX is Fiesta Americana aeropuerto. It is brand new, food is great, and the bottom elevator opens up into a mall so you will have no problem getting women in and out. The only downside is that you are far from the action.

You are going to have a great time!

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2513686]LOL. DF, I noticed the same shit. When I went to Tijuana and Hong Kong, I met a 9 there from GDL, best woman I met at HK, and I never saw anyone near her looks wise close to her.

The top chic area in CDMX is Polanco. Two and three are Condesa and Roma. FWIW, Roma is probably my favorite. Fourth is probably Reforma. So you should look at Polanco.

With hotels, it used to be that they were all guest friendly but I am not sure you can make any definite plans in a Covid world. Shit, I used to have the concierge deliver the hookers to my room, got to love Mexico!!

There is a sex hotel named Hotel Patriotismo in Polanco, and no woman will refuse to come there, and I doubt you will have any problems with visitors. It is actually a good place to party. I had a nice suite with a stripper pole in it. You can book a room there on [URL]booking.com[/URL] or kayak. I liked it so much that I would stay there as a regular hotel even without the sex.

For food, watch somebody feed Phil on Netflix when he goes to CDMX. Of all the places he went and I did, my favorite was Panderia Rosetta (bakery) in Roma. Do you know how good the fucking baked goods are there? I bought a half dozen items to bring back to the USA and I ate them all myself. I could not resist. I try not to go there every day for breakfast but I cannot help myself. There is a lovely park near by. I bought a baguette, ate that and other things and fed the birds my shared bread, really nice time.[/QUOTE]So funny, when Adelitas was still good and I was traveling to Tijuana frequently I swear some of the best looking girls I have ever hooked up in my life where from GDL. Same thing happen to me when I got to GDL nothing even close to the girls I was meeting in Tijuana. I thought there was going to be smoking Hot Girls every where, it just was not the case.

Now MTY / CDMX is a different story, you can see you real stunners. I have more experience in MTY and for me it is much better. I just can not express how good it is here for me. I thought I would have had this experience in Kiev or Colombia, not even close to the quality of girls I am meeting in MTY.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2513686]LOL. DF, I noticed the same shit. When I went to Tijuana and Hong Kong, I met a 9 there from GDL, best woman I met at HK, and I never saw anyone near her looks wise close to her.

The top chic area in CDMX is Polanco. Two and three are Condesa and Roma. FWIW, Roma is probably my favorite. Fourth is probably Reforma. So you should look at Polanco.

With hotels, it used to be that they were all guest friendly but I am not sure you can make any definite plans in a Covid world. Shit, I used to have the concierge deliver the hookers to my room, got to love Mexico!!

There is a sex hotel named Hotel Patriotismo in Polanco, and no woman will refuse to come there, and I doubt you will have any problems with visitors. It is actually a good place to party. I had a nice suite with a stripper pole in it. You can book a room there on [URL]booking.com[/URL] or kayak. I liked it so much that I would stay there as a regular hotel even without the sex.

For food, watch somebody feed Phil on Netflix when he goes to CDMX. Of all the places he went and I did, my favorite was Panderia Rosetta (bakery) in Roma. Do you know how good the fucking baked goods are there? I bought a half dozen items to bring back to the USA and I ate them all myself. I could not resist. I try not to go there every day for breakfast but I cannot help myself. There is a lovely park near by. I bought a baguette, ate that and other things and fed the birds my shared bread, really nice time.[/QUOTE]Elvis, many thanks for the good intel. I've copied it all down. The SA scene looks quite ripe, but I also have to try one of the albercadas, so I'm going to try to plan a trip around one of those. It's getting late to plan a NYE trip to CDMX, but I'll be getting out there in the next few months, and wouldn't mind connecting with any fellow travelers. At any rate, why is Roma your favorite over Polanca?

Unrelated topic: Does anyone have SA experience in Puerto Rico, or know what it's like right now in the covid era? It's just an easier destination for a last-minute trip.

[QUOTE=CarloRogue;2514285]Elvis, many thanks for the good intel. I've copied it all down. The SA scene looks quite ripe, but I also have to try one of the albercadas, so I'm going to try to plan a trip around one of those. It's getting late to plan a NYE trip to CDMX, but I'll be getting out there in the next few months, and wouldn't mind connecting with any fellow travelers. At any rate, why is Roma your favorite over Polanca?

Unrelated topic: Does anyone have SA experience in Puerto Rico, or know what it's like right now in the covid era? It's just an easier destination for a last-minute trip.[/QUOTE]As far as I know, CDMX right now is back to where it was when the pandemic started. At least for the holidays. Restaurants, cafes (take out / delivery only), clubs, etc closed until further notice. Definitely not the best time to visit.

SA works great in CDMX, I don't understand what's the point of paying 1500-1800 MXN per hour to twitter girls, when you can easily find better looking pros or semi-pros on SA and pay 2500-3500 MXN for multiple hours date or even TLN. SA dates are way better experience vs wham bam thank you ma'am kind of dates.

If you have the funds, stick to Polanco. Very upscale neighborhood with high-end restaurants and shopping. Great parks too. Any hooker would be happy to come over to your place in Polanco, they love it.

My favorite is Reforma though. Right in the middle of the city, close to everything, very similar to Brickell Avenue in Miami.

[QUOTE=CarloRogue;2513461]You've got me sold on CDMX. I've been reading the boards here for a while and between the SA scene, albercadas, and Mexican porn stars on twitter, this city is high on my bucket list, and hopefully a repeat destination. Any recommendations for new year's eve, or around that weekend? I'm pretty savvy with SA already, but love the group scene and really want to try some parties. Also, any high-end hotels that are solidly girl friendly? I like to be near the sights and best restaurant districts, and happy to spend for convenience and luxury. Someone mentioned the W hotel presidential suite, which sounds like a fun splurge.[/QUOTE]While it has been a couple years traveling to Cabo to hobby the prices were more like big city USA than Mexico due to the transient nature of the tourists. Price savvy people go elsewhere- it's really a tourist trap. That said, I never had trouble with hotels since so many have beach side or street entrances.

Back to Roma. Agree about staying near there. Also the walking is amazing. Food is astounding.

[QUOTE=SfoCowboy;2512983]India is the trickiest place for SA mongering. Delhi has the best collection within India. I'm not sure if 10 K INR could get you something nice but it could. May be a 20% chance. 15 k to 25 k inr could definitely get you a decent bird. People who don't know the value of money just throw crazy money on girls. Can't help it. We are discussing this here coz we value our money...[/QUOTE]Have been using SA in Delhi since 3 years. Yes, 10 k would not get something nice, perhaps someone young but not pretty.

15 k seems to be the sweet spot although feels more like 20 k if you really want good quality. There are some that ask 25-30 k INR for a meet and 90 k-100 k INR for a monthly arrangement.

In between all this, one can find gems that can cost around 12 k but can be brought down to 10 k if you are regular.

My preference is young girls on SA, so I do end up paying around the 15 k mark usually.

Also most girls over 30 would be a waste in India. Just going by the rule that their body would be out of shape. Also there are some professionals and some SPs as well so one needs to be aware of them!

Happy to help if someone is visiting the city.

P.S.: Also have tried SA in Dubai, US (Orange County, Austin, NY) and a couple of times in Europe. Keen to explore SA in Mexico, Colombia in 2021 if travel opens up!

[QUOTE=CarloRogue;2514285]Elvis, At any rate, why is Roma your favorite over Polanca?.[/QUOTE]I do not know if this is true or not, but IMO Polanco seems like snobby older money and Roma is like new rich fun. I love the streets of Roma and every meal I have had there has been great and not like breaking the bank. I went to a high end steak place in Polanco: very good, very formal, very expensive. Roma just has more of a care free open, fun vibe. It is more of a feeling. Do you know how you can feel the energy of a city? I felt this incredible positive wave much more in Roma than Polanco, but they are both great parts of an amazing city.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2514427]I do not know if this is true or not, but IMO Polanco seems like snobby older money and Roma is like new rich fun. I love the streets of Roma and every meal I have had there has been great and not like breaking the bank. I went to a high end steak place in Polanco: very good, very formal, very expensive. Roma just has more of a care free open, fun vibe. It is more of a feeling. Do you know how you can feel the energy of a city? I felt this incredible positive wave much more in Roma than Polanco, but they are both great parts of an amazing city.[/QUOTE]Now that you describe it that way, Roma sounds exactly like my kind of place. I love the gritty authenticity of old cities with a bit of an underbelly, but also satisfying my first-world indulgences. I prefer a modern gastropub over an expensive old-school steakhouse any day. What are the best hotels in Roma? What about AirBnB?

[QUOTE=CarloRogue;2514285]........The SA scene looks quite ripe, but I also have to try one of the albercadas, so I'm going to try to plan a trip around one of those.................

Unrelated topic: Does anyone have SA experience in Puerto Rico, or know what it's like right now in the covid era? It's just an easier destination for a last-minute trip.[/QUOTE]What exactly is an "albercada"?

Good question about Puerto Rico. There are many hot Puerto Rican women in the USA San Juan is a great place to hang.

Tonight I started looking at the Wishlist on the woman's profile. (Bored) If they are asking for lingerie, vibrators and butt plugs, is that considered a healthy sign? I am intrigued. Has anyone had any experience?

I usually ask for their Amazon wishlist to get a better understanding.

Usually when I see lingerie, vibrators and butt plugs they are the Pro girls.

[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2514718]What exactly is an "albercada"?

Good question about Puerto Rico. There are many hot Puerto Rican women in the USA San Juan is a great place to hang.[/QUOTE]Albercada is an organized pool party, periodically held, usually at a motel the promoter rents out. There is lots of info on the CDMX thread if you're interested. I haven't been yet, but I'm a huge fan of FKK's and they sound a bit similar in structure, except for the venue.

Does anyone have hotel or restaurant suggestions for San Juan, PR? Anyone been recently? I've also met some PR girls on SA in the past and they're typically very sexy and passionate.

Anyone searched Seeking Arrangement on Reddit? There are plenty of post from the SB perspective, nice read and into their minds and what are they thinking. But from reading these, I can guess they are mostly American women. That's why I don't prefer American Women and much prefer Latin American or Europeans.

Because I think of my best girls as both friends and lovers I keep track of birthdays and usually send $50 or $100 (depending on the girl). Been sending out a handful of Christmas gifts and it's really satisfying. Responses ranging from:

"I don't have CashApp but just that You'the think to send me something is gift enough. " (She's kinda in love with me) to videos of graphic pussy masturbation (from a semi pro in So Paulo) to "it actually made me cry" to "want to meet up New Year's Eve?

A lot of us have the coin to do it. I highly recommend a little Christmas cash. It does the heart good and pays back many times over.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2512511]If you are under 30, I might add 10 years to your age. These gals go onto SA specifically to meet older rich guys. I've been told by some SBs that the younger guys on the site are aZZholes, and now they screen out younger guys. But this was for the SF market, where a some of the young guys were rich nerds that gotten beaten up in HS and are now taking it out on SBs. Yeah, huge generalization, I know.

BTW, if you are under 30, then why not just use Tinder and get laid for free? If it's an issue with showing your face, well, for most non-pros, they want to see what you look like before the meetup, generally speaking. So, not sure why you'd use SA instead of Tinder. At my age, I cannot easily score a young hottie on Tinder. But I can score them on SA.[/QUOTE]What if I'm ugly and the only way I can get sex is by paying for it?

[QUOTE=BroComplex;2515151]What if I'm ugly and the only way I can get sex is by paying for it?[/QUOTE]The answer is straightforward. Visit the destinations here on this forum like Canada, South America, Asia and Germany.

I mention Canada because most Americans can get there with a short flight. There are some really good-looking escorts in Canadian cities.

Now is apparently the time to find some new presents to open on Seeking. In my city it is rare to see new girls on the app. Got into a nice chat Christmas Eve. Then, feeling a bit odd went browsing on Christmas day. WTF? Several new hot girls. Maybe the holidays makes them lonely? But suggest you go "shopping" over the holidays. It appears many new presents are under the tree!

I am currently investigating my options around South America and wondered whether any of you guys got an idea how much the standard date would be in Caracas? At least some point of reference?

I asked this question some time ago in the CCS section but never received an answer. Caracas appears to be some kind of paradise for our hobby.

[QUOTE=Ailton;2515437]I am currently investigating my options around South America and wondered whether any of you guys got an idea how much the standard date would be in Caracas? At least some point of reference?

I asked this question some time ago in the CCS section but never received an answer. Caracas appears to be some kind of paradise for our hobby.[/QUOTE]It is even safe to travel there?

[QUOTE=BroComplex;2515151]What if I'm ugly and the only way I can get sex is by paying for it?[/QUOTE]Lack of confidence is the ugliest of ugly to girls. We're all dealt less of a hand than we'd want. It's how you play what you have that makes you who you are. If you're out of shape, use your will and make lifestyle changes to improve your fitness. Wear fresh clothes, especially nice shoes (trust me, the women are scrutinizing these) and a high-end cologne (lightly applied). Be clean shaven, with a recent haircut. If you're boring, travel to interesting places and accumulate fun stories. Take some risks. Smile, make eye contact, be charming. Talk about her not you. Go on lots of dates. Analyze what works and do more of that, change what doesn't, but fit congruently within your personality. Practice really does make perfect.

All of the above comes out of the much-maligned pick-up artist community, but it's all rather straightforward and really inoffensive self-improvement if you think about it. You're training yourself to be more attractive to women, which also incidentally makes you more attractive to your friends, family, co-workers, and even yourself. Also worth noting that many girls I talk to on SA are there because they're rather disgusted with how immature and boring boys their age are.

[QUOTE=Ailton;2515437]I am currently investigating my options around South America and wondered whether any of you guys got an idea how much the standard date would be in Caracas? At least some point of reference?

I asked this question some time ago in the CCS section but never received an answer. Caracas appears to be some kind of paradise for our hobby.[/QUOTE]You can't realistically even consider it. Its unsafe, travel is resteicted from many parts, and every mongering risk you can think of is higher. Yes the price maybe great but you have to deal with the rest of it. I've got a couple of chicas I've friended on FB, don't even think pros, they tell me about their daily struggles and its heartbreaking, and either would jump at a chance to travel out of there and meet, but I haven't figured out a way to put that together without getting into trouble. So let me know if you have. And no I will not send anyone I don't know $1 k to buy tickets for themselves.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2515476]It is even safe to travel there?[/QUOTE][QUOTE=GeneHickman;2515510]You can't realistically even consider it. Its unsafe, travel is resteicted from many parts, and every mongering risk you can think of is higher. Yes the price maybe great but you have to deal with the rest of it. I've got a couple of chicas I've friended on FB, don't even think pros, they tell me about their daily struggles and its heartbreaking, and either would jump at a chance to travel out of there and meet, but I haven't figured out a way to put that together without getting into trouble. So let me know if you have. And no I will not send anyone I don't know $1 k to buy tickets for themselves.[/QUOTE]It is absolutely not safe and I am aware of that. Hence, I am looking at SP or CDMX for my first tour. Still, if anyone got any information as to possible expenses, please let me know.

[QUOTE=GeneHickman;2515510]You can't realistically even consider it. Its unsafe, travel is resteicted from many parts, and every mongering risk you can think of is higher. Yes the price maybe great but you have to deal with the rest of it. I've got a couple of chicas I've friended on FB, don't even think pros, they tell me about their daily struggles and its heartbreaking, and either would jump at a chance to travel out of there and meet, but I haven't figured out a way to put that together without getting into trouble. So let me know if you have. And no I will not send anyone I don't know $1 k to buy tickets for themselves.[/QUOTE]That indeed would be a rather strange definition of "paradise". I admire a bit of risk taking, but in a measured way. There's a difference between traveling like Anthony Bourdain and Warmbier. I'd put Venezuela into the latter category right now.

And if you're into Vennies, why not plan a nice, safe, and rewarding trip to Barranquilla or Cartagena, when travel allows? Word is that many have escaped into Colombia and Panama.

[QUOTE=Ailton;2515437]I am currently investigating my options around South America and wondered whether any of you guys got an idea how much the standard date would be in Caracas? At least some point of reference?

I asked this question some time ago in the CCS section but never received an answer. Caracas appears to be some kind of paradise for our hobby.[/QUOTE]So unless things have changed, the first part would be getting a visa. The last I checked you had to send your passport to Caracas. I think it is effing crazy to do that. Then you have to get a flight there. There used to be cheap flights to Aruba, but the last I checked the only ways in were via Bogota and Panama City, and flights were ridiculously high. Even when I looked at hotel prices they were double the price of their neighboring countries. Apparently, the hotels would tell you that they close their doors at 8 PM and you are shit out of luck after that. Then you have stories of the hotels running out of paper and this is preCovid. God knows what it is like there now.

In comparison, you can hop on Spirit Airlines and get to Bogota for $300 or so, do not need a visa, stay at the decent Ibis hotel for $30 a night, and can be banging all the hot Vennies you want in the Santa Fe region for 10 to $20 a pop. Caracas is not paradise Ailton. Bogota is. If you do not like the altitude, Medellin is a good alternative.

In the USA sex prison, my attempts at turning a stripper or escort into a sugar baby has been a painful experience. By their very nature, they suck at commitments.

However, when you are dealing with a Venezuelan stripper or street walker in the Bogota area, I am not sure if it is the same because unlike in the sex prison, a lot of women are working women not because they are losers but because they were dealt a bad hand by their country.

I hooked up with my favorite Vennie stripper on my last trip. Unlike a lot of the other working women I was with, she really got into the sex. It is hard to cum in the shitty beds in the strip clubs but this woman sucked and fucked me with such gusto, she got me off. In fact, she was such a nympho she was playing with junior a few minutes after getting me off trying to get me to go a second round.

I have my fun in Santa Fe but for sugar babies, I date the beautiful and educated women that I met on seeking. They work at the nicest malls, are teachers, or women getting degrees in the most high end careers like engineering, law, and medicine.

I was kind of surprised then when the Vennie stripper said, "I really like you and want to cook for you. " The stripper code is all about taking not giving and I would expect a "Why don't you take me to dinner?" The next part that really shocked me was when she said that she was a criminal defense lawyer in Venezuela and had modeled all through out Europe. I was like all right this is not your typical stripper loser. She has been very good about texting me.

So the next time I am in Bogota, I will take her up on her dinner offer and we will see what happens.

There are also abundant Vennies in the city of Cucuta, Colombia which is the most important crossing site into Venezuela now. But I have been told on the hunt for hot Vennies, the women do not stay there. They head to Bogota and Medellin. Cucuta has cheap but not high end pussy. You can get laid there by a decent looking woman for like $5 but you got to stay there and I have been told it is a shithole. LOL.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2515959]So unless things have changed, the first part would be getting a visa. The last I checked you had to send your passport to Caracas. I think it is effing crazy to do that. Then you have to get a flight there. There used to be cheap flights to Aruba, but the last I checked the only ways in were via Bogota and Panama City, and flights were ridiculously high. Even when I looked at hotel prices they were double the price of their neighboring countries. Apparently, the hotels would tell you that they close their doors at 8 PM and you are shit out of luck after that. Then you have stories of the hotels running out of paper and this is preCovid. God knows what it is like there now.

In comparison, you can hop on Spirit Airlines and get to Bogota for $300 or so, do not need a visa, stay at the decent Ibis hotel for $30 a night, and can be banging all the hot Vennies you want in the Santa Fe region for 10 to $20 a pop. Caracas is not paradise Ailton. Bogota is. If you do not like the altitude, Medellin is a good alternative.

In the USA sex prison, my attempts at turning a stripper or escort into a sugar baby has been a painful experience. By their very nature, they suck at commitments.

However, when you are dealing with a Venezuelan stripper or street walker in the Bogota area, I am not sure if it is the same because unlike in the sex prison, a lot of women are working women not because they are losers but because they were dealt a bad hand by their country.

I hooked up with my favorite Vennie stripper on my last trip. Unlike a lot of the other working women I was with, she really got into the sex. It is hard to cum in the shitty beds in the strip clubs but this woman sucked and fucked me with such gusto, she got me off. In fact, she was such a nympho she was playing with junior a few minutes after getting me off trying to get me to go a second round.[/QUOTE]Thanks a lot for your substantial remarks on the situation. As far as the Visa is concerned, I have a 2nd passport of a country that is widely considered "rogue" in the West and whose citizens are extremely welcome in Venezuela without any Visa (up to 15 days). I would assume that this would also constitute a good cover for a potential trip and my looks blend in too. What I was originally looking at, is renting an apartment in a safe area of Caracas and conduct business from there. After other members have again advised me of the precarious situation, I will continue to stick with SP and CDMX. You never know what kind of girl you are communicating with and how desperate she may be, even the most well considered measures can fail where effective policing is absent.

Your descriptions of Venezuelans in Colombia communicate the situation of those who managed to escape very well. The impression I get is also that some consider foreigners as a potential ticket out. I will definitely consider Vennies in Colombia for the next trip.

Wish you best of luck with your stripper-lawyer on your next trip to Bogota.

What's the latest with your regs MW? I want to know how your girl you argued with is working out. Back together still?

Latest for me is saw Sarah a week ago. Continued great BBFS but she's seemed cool of late. Putting off another date. She got a couple calls from her mom when we were together that maybe freaked her out a bit. Or maybe because we don't go out — we only go to the hotel. Maybe that's eating at her. Going to try to figure it out.

Meanwhile I sent Layla $100 for Cmas and sure enough she comes back to life — ready to meetup. So we had a little soirée with Thai food and a nice time in the room. Problem is she wants to please but she doesn't kiss or BJ worth a damn. It's just fucking. Which is OK but not what I really like. Goddamn she has a 9 face so that helps but lack of service keeps her from ever being my go to girl. It's kinda sad because she really want to be that. But you can tell she doesn't have it in her.

And in other news have a date upcoming with a Mongolian girl (yep MW your neck of the woods). Another newbie lonely girl like Sarah. We'll call her Ariana. So it will be fun to see how the seduction goes.

And hopefully Sarah's distancing is just temporary. I'm not pinging her right now since I have the date with Ariana upcoming.

Anyhow still haven't found my perfect fit — tho the sex with Sarah is epic so if she comes back around I'll probably stop wandering.

Só MW. What's the 411?

[QUOTE=Ailton;2515437]I am currently investigating my options around South America and wondered whether any of you guys got an idea how much the standard date would be in Caracas? At least some point of reference?

I asked this question some time ago in the CCS section but never received an answer. Caracas appears to be some kind of paradise for our hobby.[/QUOTE]Paradise? The only similarity is that you will probably be dead. Whether you end up in paradise or not I don't know. Any place that you need an armed guard to go buy groceries, and then there are no groceries, is not paradise.

[QUOTE=Zeos1;2516195]Paradise? The only similarity is that you will probably be dead. Whether you end up in paradise or not I don't know. Any place that you need an armed guard to go buy groceries, and then there are no groceries, is not paradise.[/QUOTE]This sub-section of the forum relates specifically to SA, not to wandering around brothels or street game. As such, my statement was evidently referring to the outstanding quality of girls and the likely low cost. I was not referring to the plight of the people or the security situation. For the aforementioned reasons, there is no reason for me whatsoever to retract or reconsider my wording.

You might recall that I am renting an apartment to meet girls at. Well, the last time we were there, the security guard stopped us as we were leaving. It gave my SB a fright. Me too, actually. But they just wanted to know if anyone was going to pay the heating bill for the past two months.

Officially, I do not have a formal lease at this place. I just pay the landlady three months rent in advance. So, the security guards and front desk people just give me quizzical and sometimes dirty looks every time I show up with a girl. So, I have not been using the place lately. I am paying rent for nothing. I am probably going to bail on it. The big mistake is that this apartment building is small, with a small lobby, so everyone that works there knows my business. No privacy. On the one hand, I should not give a shit what people think. However, some of my friends told me that any day now, the police might show up at my real residence and ask me what I am doing at the other apartment, which kind of scares me. Fuck. I thought this was a great idea, but obviously it's not.

In the meantime, I am still meeting up with other girls at their places. But as far as my two SBs go, I think I will have to cut bait with them. With both of them, I have now been with them about 10 times already, and it just gets stale after a while. I am beginning to think that monthly arrangements or any LT arrangement is a waste of time. I think I am way more into strange. This idea of having an SB because she gives me semi genuine GFE is a novelty that is starting to wear off. How about for you? BTW, maybe you should feel lucky that Sarah is being a bit cool. I was worried that she would really fall in love with you and that would create a messy situation for you.

Anyway, I haven't seen SB #1 since that last time we met at the apartment. She said she doesn't want to go there again. But like I said, I don't miss her that much now. Weird. For a while, I really thought that I would want her as my SB forever, LOL. She had everything, including looks, body, and personality. Maybe I am spoiled and I am taking these SBs for granted.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2516159]What's the latest with your regs MW? I want to know how your girl you argued with is working out. Back together still?

Latest for me is saw Sarah a week ago. Continued great BBFS but she's seemed cool of late. Putting off another date. She got a couple calls from her mom when we were together that maybe freaked her out a bit. Or maybe because we don't go out we only go to the hotel. Maybe that's eating at her. Going to try to figure it out.

Meanwhile I sent Layla $100 for Cmas and sure enough she comes back to life ready to meetup. So we had a little soire with Thai food and a nice time in the room. Problem is she wants to please but she doesn't kiss or BJ worth a damn. It's just fucking. Which is OK but not what I really like. Goddamn she has a 9 face so that helps but lack of service keeps her from ever being my go to girl. It's kinda sad because she really want to be that. But you can tell she doesn't have it in her.

And in other news have a date upcoming with a Mongolian girl (yep MW your neck of the woods). Another newbie lonely girl like Sarah. We'll call her Ariana. So it will be fun to see how the seduction goes.

And hopefully Sarah's distancing is just temporary. I'm not pinging her right now since I have the date with Ariana upcoming.

Anyhow still haven't found my perfect fit tho the sex with Sarah is epic so if she comes back around I'll probably stop wandering.

S MW. What's the 411?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2516297]You might recall that I am renting an apartment to meet girls at. Well, the last time we were there, the security guard stopped us as we were leaving. It gave my SB a fright. Me too, actually. But they just wanted to know if anyone was going to pay the heating bill for the past two months.

Officially, I do not have a formal lease at this place. I just pay the landlady three months rent in advance. So, the security guards and front desk people just give me quizzical and sometimes dirty looks every time I show up with a girl. So, I have not been using the place lately. I am paying rent for nothing. I am probably going to bail on it. The big mistake is that this apartment building is small, with a small lobby, so everyone that works there knows my business. No privacy. On the one hand, I should not give a shit what people think. However, some of my friends told me that any day now, the police might show up at my real residence and ask me what I am doing at the other apartment, which kind of scares me. Fuck. I thought this was a great idea, but obviously it's not.

In the meantime, I am still meeting up with other girls at their places. But as far as my two SBs go, I think I will have to cut bait with them. With both of them, I have now been with them about 10 times already, and it just gets stale after a while. I am beginning to think that monthly arrangements or any LT arrangement is a waste of time. I think I am way more into strange. This idea of having an SB because she gives me semi genuine GFE is a novelty that is starting to wear off. How about for you? BTW, maybe you should feel lucky that Sarah is being a bit cool. I was worried that she would really fall in love with you and that would create a messy situation for you.

Anyway, I haven't seen SB #1 since that last time we met at the apartment. She said she doesn't want to go there again. But like I said, I don't miss her that much now. Weird. For a while, I really thought that I would want her as my SB forever, LOL. She had everything, including looks, body, and personality. Maybe I am spoiled and I am taking these SBs for granted.[/QUOTE]Yeah I think there is definitely something to what you are saying. Yes we clearly want the sex. And yes we clearly want that girlfriendy thing. But we also want to seduce and conquer. So once she's urs and you can have her any time suddenly she is less interesting. I find myself looking forward to dinner with some new girl as much as sex with an existing one. Although I will confess this is partly because I'm not crushing on any of the girls I can have right now. If this was Alexa or Krystal I'the be dying to just have dinner with her because I can just stare all night I am so smitten. LOL. But right now "new" is trumping the bird in the hand.

This partly comes with what the Nanpa guys call and abundance mindset. If I thought Layla or Sarah were the last girl I could have for a long time I'the hold on for dear life. But since it's clear I can continue this journey in many different ways and not have scarcity it makes the pursuit more doable.

P.S. I still have to hold on a bit because it's not target rich where I live. If I was in Miami or somewhere damn I'the be going thru the roster.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2516297]You might recall that I am renting an apartment to meet girls at. Well, the last time we were there, the security guard stopped us as we were leaving. It gave my SB a fright. Me too, actually. But they just wanted to know if anyone was going to pay the heating bill for the past two months.

Officially, I do not have a formal lease at this place. I just pay the landlady three months rent in advance. So, the security guards and front desk people just give me quizzical and sometimes dirty looks every time I show up with a girl. So, I have not been using the place lately. I am paying rent for nothing. I am probably going to bail on it. The big mistake is that this apartment building is small, with a small lobby, so everyone that works there knows my business. No privacy. On the one hand, I should not give a shit what people think. However, some of my friends told me that any day now, the police might show up at my real residence and ask me what I am doing at the other apartment, which kind of scares me. Fuck. I thought this was a great idea, but obviously it's not.

In the meantime, I am still meeting up with other girls at their places. But as far as my two SBs go, I think I will have to cut bait with them. With both of them, I have now been with them about 10 times already, and it just gets stale after a while. I am beginning to think that monthly arrangements or any LT arrangement is a waste of time. I think I am way more into strange. This idea of having an SB because she gives me semi genuine GFE is a novelty that is starting to wear off. How about for you? BTW, maybe you should feel lucky that Sarah is being a bit cool..[/QUOTE]Seems like you have a nice setup and the security guards already know the score. Why would the police investigate? You're not doing anything wrong. Looks like a good opportunity to apply a little game to the situation (it's not just for the ladies). Instead of walking in sheepishly with a guilty look, befriend one of the late-night guards, and chat him up. Find out what he likes and bring a little gift next time like dessert or alcohol. You might even hint and joke around at why you're there (they already know) and find out whether anyone cares. You could even offer to have your date show ID the next time your there, if they had any concerns. Most security people have been in the hospitality business for a long time and have seen a lot, and they know that tenants are what pays their salary. They all talk, so you only need to befriend one or two. This works particularly well overseas at hotels and Airbnb's but worth a shot here too.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2484228]Since the FKK is probably the least understood of the venues and every man should have it on his bucket list here is an intro to FKK.

So what is this crazy FKK I speak of?[/QUOTE]Just stumbled on your posts! Well done! I've been to various consenting adult places in several European countries, including Sharks, and I completely agree. I would just add a couple of additional facts:

1. As you point out, the buffet at Sharks (or less extensive food area in other FKKs) is a great place to relax. Most clubs also make it a "no solicitation zone" and don't allow the girls to pick you up. So, it's an oasis or demilitarized zone of sorts.

2. Some FKKs go beyond that and have a strict no-solicitation policy throughout the club. When you're ready, you have to go to them and get acquainted. This makes the experience all the more relaxing and on your terms.

3. Some FKKs have kinos (movie theaters) showing porn. If you're into public sex, you and your beloved can do the deed right in front of everybody else in the theater.

4. Although the recent German laws requiring condoms (even for blow jobs) have stifled the business somewhat, there are still some flat-rate clubs called Partytreffs. (Check out this forum for the link). You basically pay a flat rate and you can have as much sex as you can handle. The girls aren't as young or as attractive as at an FKK, but they love sex. A spontaneous group session or gangbang can break out at any moment. I mention the German laws because most Partytreffs started out with bareback blowjobs out in the lounge area.

5. In recent years, many clubs sell the generic Viagra gel at the desk.

It's been a month since I promised myself that I would not again see a local Korean hottie that I met on [URL]seeking.com[/URL]. Now it's been Christmas and I want to send her a little greeting. She is very accommodating and hosts me for the day at her house. Great fun.

But her attitude to money annoys me. She is a single mum, 2 kids and not exactly rolling in cash but she will have me take her to an expensive place for dinner. I could just as easily give her the extra cash as I keep a mental note of the total 'cost' of the various girls. Some girls see the payment as the max whereas this little hottie sees it as a starting point to see how much extra I can spend on her. She then has nothing to show for the extra $$ just some escape from her day-to-day life.

I'm looking for experience shares on how to access her sweet pussy charms without feeling like she is raping my credit card. I like to know in advance how much an adventure will cost me.

[QUOTE=CarloRogue;2516401]Seems like you have a nice setup and the security guards already know the score. Why would the police investigate? You're not doing anything wrong. Looks like a good opportunity to apply a little game to the situation (it's not just for the ladies). Instead of walking in sheepishly with a guilty look, befriend one of the late-night guards, and chat him up. Find out what he likes and bring a little gift next time like dessert or alcohol. You might even hint and joke around at why you're there (they already know) and find out whether anyone cares. You could even offer to have your date show ID the next time your there, if they had any concerns. Most security people have been in the hospitality business for a long time and have seen a lot, and they know that tenants are what pays their salary. They all talk, so you only need to befriend one or two. This works particularly well overseas at hotels and Airbnb's but worth a shot here too.[/QUOTE]Thanks for the suggestions, man, but the problem is that I do not speak the language (Chinese). So, I cannot chat up the security guards. I am an American. China does not exactly love Americans. So, here I am, bringing hot girls that are half my age into a very nice apartment for afternoon romps. Everyone is giving me dirty looks.

The other problem is that everyone is pretty much deputized in China. This means that a nosy person who has nothing better to do can call the police on me, and will actually get "social credits" for doing it. Given that I cannot speak Chinese, and my girlfriends cannot speak English, the police will assume it is pay for play, and they do not even need a reason to put me in jail for two weeks while they investigate.

Believe me, I also thought I had a nice setup. During my first week at the apartment, I was boinking almost every day there, sometimes all day long. It was awesome. But now my SB #1 does not even want to go back there because everyone gives us dirty looks, and she too is afraid that someone will call the police.

Oh, and one last thing that I forgot to mention is that China is cracking down hard on pay for play activities. Especially now, during the holiday season. So, this makes me even more nervous, especially for now.

[QUOTE=Max#01;2516465]Just stumbled on your posts! Well done! I've been to various consenting adult places in several European countries, including Sharks, and I completely agree. I would just add a couple of additional facts:

1. As you point out, the buffet at Sharks (or less extensive food area in other FKKs) is a great place to relax. Most clubs also make it a "no solicitation zone" and don't allow the girls to pick you up. So, it's an oasis or demilitarized zone of sorts............[/QUOTE]This question is directed to you and Steve since you have discussed FKKs here. What is the general attitude of the FKK girls towards DFK? Nothing disappoints me more than the tight-lipped LFK. It's also kind of a drag when forum members describe the DFK scene as YMMV.

I just want to thank Steve, Midwestern and others for their valuable and interesting contributions to this thread. The SA scene clearly involves a lot of nuance and finesse. Cheers and Happy New Year!

The value of this thread as only been enhanced by the fact that some localized forums have deleted and banned SA discussions. I presume some local sponsors view SA as a threat. I doubt for men that SA will replace convenient and easy pay for play. Perhaps at the margin, a few SA girls that would have considered escorting never take the leap into the escort world. Conversely, it's possible that a SA girl realizes she can handle being an escort.

[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2516703]This question is directed to you and Steve since you have discussed FKKs here. What is the general attitude of the FKK girls towards DFK? Nothing disappoints me more than the tight-lipped LFK. It's also kind of a drag when forum members describe the DFK scene as YMMV.[/QUOTE]It really depends upon the girl and the connection you build in your "get acquainted" time in the lounge area. When I've been successful, it's always been in the room right at the beginning when we're standing facing each other. Since she is usually shorter than me, I just gently put my hand under her chin and go for it. I've gotten everything from peck on the cheek to the darting tongue to full-on DFK.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2516633]Thanks for the suggestions, man, but the problem is that I do not speak the language (Chinese). So, I cannot chat up the security guards. I am an American. China does not exactly love Americans. So, here I am, bringing hot girls that are half my age into a very nice apartment for afternoon romps. Everyone is giving me dirty looks.

The other problem is that everyone is pretty much deputized in China. This means that a nosy person who has nothing better to do can call the police on me, and will actually get "social credits" for doing it. Given that I cannot speak Chinese, and my girlfriends cannot speak English, the police will assume it is pay for play, and they do not even need a reason to put me in jail for two weeks while they investigate.

Believe me, I also thought I had a nice setup. During my first week at the apartment, I was boinking almost every day there, sometimes all day long. It was awesome. But now my SB #1 does not even want to go back there because everyone gives us dirty looks, and she too is afraid that someone will call the police.

Oh, and one last thing that I forgot to mention is that China is cracking down hard on pay for play activities. Especially now, during the holiday season. So, this makes me even more nervous, especially for now.[/QUOTE]Wow, I thought you spoke Chinese, my Spanish sucks, I real do not have a good excuse, just lazy I guess.

I have a couple questions: 1. If a girl does not want to use the translator what do you do? I have found most of the girls in MTY that I meet, that are unwilling to use the translator, it is usually is a total waste of time and never works out. Many times if there is a connection they quickly start using the translator. Once money is discuss I start communicating in English, unless they are super hot, then all rules are out the window.

[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2516709]I just want to thank Steve, Midwestern and others for their valuable and interesting contributions to this thread. The SA scene clearly involves a lot of nuance and finesse. Cheers and Happy New Year!

The value of this thread as only been enhanced by the fact that some localized forums have deleted and banned SA discussions. I presume some local sponsors view SA as a threat. I doubt for men that SA will replace convenient and easy pay for play. Perhaps at the margin, a few SA girls that would have considered escorting never take the leap into the escort world. Conversely, it's possible that a SA girl realizes she can handle being an escort.[/QUOTE]I agree totally. I have learned more from this page, then all others pages combined. You can always learn something, there are some guys that I know are lying or exaggerating, but occasionally I will learn something from them as well. Keep up the good work and great information.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2516771]Wow, I thought you spoke Chinese, my Spanish sucks, I real do not have a good excuse, just lazy I guess.

I have a couple questions: 1. If a girl does not want to use the translator what do you do? I have found most of the girls in MTY that I meet, that are unwilling to use the translator, it is usually is a total waste of time and never works out. Many times if there is a connection they quickly start using the translator. Once money is discuss I start communicating in English, unless they are super hot, then all rules are out the window.[/QUOTE]I know enough Chinese that I can pull of a first date, as long as it's all small talk, like, where are you from, do you have kids, what do you like to eat, etc. But then, after that, that's it. So, eventually, these girls all get frustrated with me. And eventually, we either drift apart, or we settle into a pay for play routine.

WyattEarp, DramaFree, and to all contributors to this subforum:

Thanks for your appreciation, but more importantly, thanks for your contributions!!

At one time, I had an insane obsession and passion for SA, and I spent around 15 hours a week on SA for almost 20 months. This was a few years ago. But when Steve brought up SA in the Shanghai forum a few months ago, and saying that SA was the best way to get girls in the USA, we just started talking about SA and then we created this subforum to discuss it in here, and for anyone else to join the convo. At first, it felt like Steve and I were just texting each other on here, LOL. We weren't sure if others were using SA. But eventually, you guys all came on board and made this subforum a great resource. Thanks, everyone! I've learned a ton from you guys.

And happy new year!

Happy New Year and thanks to Midwestern for starting this forum. Almost exactly a year ago Jan 9 was first post. And as MW says it was a bit barren at first and then got its sea legs. I have to say it was a timely thing as I had to transition from traveling SD to stay at home SD and learn a completely new set of rules and how to prospect locally. It's been an adventure. Without SA I would be absolutely in a sex desert with no hope in sight.

Speaking of which, my condolences to MW on the scene in Shanghai. What used to be one of my favorite scenes worldwide (Manhattan Bar) has now become a scary wasteland of P4 P. I read with horror in the Shanghai thread how guys are getting handjobs in sleazy back rooms and claiming victory. A really sad and scary (jail time a real possibility) situation. Worse than the US which I thought was the worst.

I've learned a lot this past year and a half about pickup game Nanpa in Japan and how important some basics are to the SA scene. One of the things they talk about is abundance, scarcity, and outcome independence. Basically when pussy is scarce you are trying to preserve it and it changes your actions and makes it scarcer. Conversely, when you have a mindset of "outcome independence" (if this crashes and burns I'll just move to the next girl no big deal) you are more confident. And when more confident it leads to abundance. And when you have abundance you are more outcome independent. It's a virtuous cycle!

I've seen this of late in spades here locally. When Layla was off, I just moved to next. Which was (is) Sarah. And when Sarah was cool I started looking. And since I started looking I became more confident that if Sarah tanked I'the just go to next. So I became more confident with her as well. So.

I just met the Sarah thing head on and said something feels off. We had a good convo about the issue and we are back on. Meanwhile I had a date with my Mongolian girl. She's an odd one and wasn't sure if I should proceed. We had a light peck kiss at her car. Again, feeling confident (because I have Sarah and Layla) I asked her by text later if that was a peck goodbye or she's just shy. She says she's really shy but wants to meet again and show me she's a passionate girl. Meanwhilst I am enamored with a Colombian hottie that I am texting. She's quite a pro (tho only 20) but her confidence bordering on arrogance is somehow really appealing (and she's hot AF) and we're talking about a meetup. And of course as a backup I have Layla (and after talking about how her BJ and Kissing are subpar shes planning to bring a friend next time who supposedly excels at both hmm well see if I wanna do that.)

So now suddenly thanks to abundance and an outcome independent mindset I have more than I can reasonably handle and keep happy. This all in what I thought was a pussy desert just 4 months ago. Start with an outcome independent mindset and the rest will follow.

Just to add some perspective from a part of the world that is not so often mentioned in this thread: some of my encounters via SA in Berlin in 2020.

* an French-Tunisian girl, 25 years old, amazing breasts the most prominent of her features, very interesting personality, and crazy in a slightly submissive way in bed; we meet on a PPM (pay per meet) basis every once in a while, 300-400.

* a Latina, student of politology, more on the petite side, and very cute; she wanted to have non intimate meetings in the beginning, but we quickly became very close to each other, and eventually we had sex for free (she was shy for reasons of gender politics, the sugar world is appealing to her, but she is also conflicted about it); we had to stop after a few meetings, since the only way open for us would have been into a full grown affair / relationship (age difference nearly 30 years), and I didn't want that (we are friends now).

* a young German student who gave me my best evening of sex this year, passionate and tender, completely uninhibited, great kisser, great BBBJ / CIM; second meeting stalling so far for reasons not completely clear to me (I have a feeling she became aware of how much she opened up only after the meeting) age difference 35 years, ppm 300.

* a 19 year old Vietnamese girl, highly attractive face and body, slim, and smart; an absolute delight potentially, but also very cash driven; I made an exception for her and agreed on an introductory meeting, gave her 200 for it, and refrained from making a move, just out of intuition; the next day she already wanted me to paypal her more; we are still texting and I might go for her in the new year, but I feel there is a possibility for disappointment in the encounter (she may show me the transactionality of our encounter too bluntly).

In general Berlin with all the students from everywhere and the hinterland of Eastern Europe is an amazing place to use SA even if nowadays there are a lot of profiles seeking quick profit from online contact; I'd say there is on average one gem per week to be found, which can keep a man busy enough.

[QUOTE=TeFab456;2517099]Just to add some perspective from a part of the world that is not so often mentioned in this thread: some of my encounters via SA in Berlin in 2020.

* an French-Tunisian girl, 25 years old, amazing breasts the most prominent of her features, very interesting personality, and crazy in a slightly submissive way in bed; we meet on a PPM (pay per meet) basis every once in a while, 300-400.

* a Latina, student of politology, more on the petite side, and very cute; she wanted to have non intimate meetings in the beginning, but we quickly became very close to each other, and eventually we had sex for free (she was shy for reasons of gender politics, the sugar world is appealing to her, but she is also conflicted about it); we had to stop after a few meetings, since the only way open for us would have been into a full grown affair / relationship (age difference nearly 30 years), and I didn't want that (we are friends now).

* a young German student who gave me my best evening of sex this year, passionate and tender, completely uninhibited, great kisser, great BBBJ / CIM; second meeting stalling so far for reasons not completely clear to me (I have a feeling she became aware of how much she opened up only after the meeting) age difference 35 years, ppm 300.

* a 19 year old Vietnamese girl, highly attractive face and body, slim, and smart; an absolute delight potentially, but also very cash driven; I made an exception for her and agreed on an introductory meeting, gave her 200 for it, and refrained from making a move, just out of intuition; the next day she already wanted me to paypal her more; we are still texting and I might go for her in the new year, but I feel there is a possibility for disappointment in the encounter (she may show me the transactionality of our encounter too bluntly).

In general Berlin with all the students from everywhere and the hinterland of Eastern Europe is an amazing place to use SA even if nowadays there are a lot of profiles seeking quick profit from online contact; I'd say there is on average one gem per week to be found, which can keep a man busy enough.[/QUOTE]Thanks for coming out of lurker status to share that. Great stuff. I've always done Artemis when in Berlin and it's a bit sharky really as FKKS go. Did Agency Liberteur one time and got lucky but doubt it's consistent. Great to know Berlin has a lively SB scene. Assuming I ever travel again. LOL.

Hi you all,

Haven't really posted much here but used SA when I was in Lisbon and here is my report.

Girls quite a lot of them some seem to be scammers or just try and take advantage of you don't send any money before any meeting.

That should be obvious but you never know. Met with 6 girls PPM 2-300 3 of them stayed the night one of them for free.

Some of the girls take way to long to answer repeated with 2 of them only 1 of them I wouldn't have repeated with.

Some girls wanted 300 per hour which is really funny when you can get a good looking escort for 150 per hour.

The girls I met were definitely the girls on the pictures 3 of them looked even better in real life.

Was pleasantly surprised by the success rate on SA.

Told them I wanted minimum 3 hours of intimate time GFE wasn't a problem.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2517108]Thanks for coming out of lurker status to share that. Great stuff. I've always done Artemis when in Berlin and it's a bit sharky really as FKKS go. Did Agency Liberteur one time and got lucky but doubt it's consistent. Great to know Berlin has a lively SB scene. Assuming I ever travel again. LOL.[/QUOTE]Indeed, a great report out of Berlin. I had only just started using SA on my overseas trips before the pandemic shut down all travel, but hope to resume in 2021. I can say that I had very good success in Indonesia. Almost like shooting fish in a barrel. I'd give advice to the board, but frankly, as long as you're nice, polite, and direct, anyone would do well there.

On another note, of late, I have to say that I'm getting a little worried about the future viability of SA. If any of you read the USA boards, just about every major city has a sugar baby sub-forum, and there are regular and recurring flame wars about whether sugar babies are pros or not. As if the complexity of women exist solely in one of two binary states. Frankly to me, the majority in the "pro" camp are so adamant about it, that they come across as misogynistic. It is also unsurprising that these are the same guys that complain about how the site is full of fakes and flakes and how they can't get a real girl from the site (and I talk to many girls on SA who run from these types, given how brutish they come across). Anyway, I'm not trying to reignite the debate here. It is a debate without a purpose, but worse and to the point I wanted to make, I fear it is drawing the wrong attention to SA. On top of that, there are the detailed reviews of services and transactions, and some ugly bully behavior. It's like putting out the catnip for white knights, scorned women, and an uncle named LEO.

So, my wish for 2021: let's all be nice. Spread some good cheer. Be positive. Give a sincere compliment. Move on from a missed connection with a smile and polite thank-you. Recognize that real men don't get easily offended or sweat small stuff. Believe in the law of attraction, or simply be a shrewd practitioner of it. Pick your own favorite good-will quip and put it into action. Maybe karma will reward us, or at least preserve the good in the status quo for a little while longer.

CR.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2517051]Happy New Year and thanks to Midwestern for starting this forum. Almost exactly a year ago Jan 9 was first post. And as MW says it was a bit barren at first and then got its sea legs. I have to say it was a timely thing as I had to transition from traveling SD to stay at home SD and learn a completely new set of rules and how to prospect locally. It's been an adventure. Without SA I would be absolutely in a sex desert with no hope in sight.[/QUOTE]Holy shit, didn't realize this subforum started a year ago, just before CV19 took hold of the world. Maybe one reason why this subforum thrived is because it gave us a place to hang out during our respective lockdowns. I'm not ashamed to admit that reading this subforum was sometimes the highlight of my day when I had to stay home 23 hours a day for months. Let's hope there more fucking in 2021 for all.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2517198]Holy shit, didn't realize this subforum started a year ago, just before CV19 took hold of the world. Maybe one reason why this subforum thrived is because it gave us a place to hang out during our respective lockdowns. I'm not ashamed to admit that reading this subforum was sometimes the highlight of my day when I had to stay home 23 hours a day for months. Let's hope there more fucking in 2021 for all.[/QUOTE]Thanks again, this page rocks. Happy New Year.

[QUOTE=CarloRogue;2517187]On another note, of late, I have to say that I'm getting a little worried about the future viability of SA. If any of you read the USA boards, just about every major city has a sugar baby sub-forum, and there are regular and recurring flame wars about whether sugar babies are pros or not. As if the complexity of women exist solely in one of two binary states. Frankly to me, the majority in the "pro" camp are so adamant about it, that they come across as misogynistic. It is also unsurprising that these are the same guys that complain about how the site is full of fakes and flakes and how they can't get a real girl from the site (and I talk to many girls on SA who run from these types, given how brutish they come across). Anyway, I'm not trying to reignite the debate here. It is a debate without a purpose, but worse and to the point I wanted to make, I fear it is drawing the wrong attention to SA. On top of that, there are the detailed reviews of services and transactions, and some ugly bully behavior. It's like putting out the catnip for white knights, scorned women, and an uncle named LEO.


CR.[/QUOTE]Yes, I have noticed the same thing. I really hope that poor, and / or cheap, guys don't fuck it up like they do everything else in this industry. Like with Backpage and the German flat-rate all you can fuck clubs. There would be some irony to that, since the founder says that love itself is a concept invented for poor people.

[URL]https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3568754/Seeking-Arrangement-founder-Brandon-Wade-claims-love-concept-poor-people.html[/URL]

The risk isn't that law enforcement starts putting decoys on Seeking Arrangement, like they did with Backpage. The system is too different, and that is simply not going to happen. The risk is that the USA Federal government, and / or numerous State Attorney Generals, bring an action against Seeking for promoting prostitution, and simply seizes its assets while the lawsuit progresses. That won't legally effect the users, other than the damn site would be in limbo. It would be better if the entire operation had been originated outside the United States, but it is too late now. When you read the sub forums you mentioned, there is no denying that the site has attracted more transactional players as it has gotten bigger in the last few years. I am sure that Seeking would prefer that those sub forums not exist. In the USA, the general rule in this industry is the smaller the better, and the quieter the better, in terms of federal and state agencies not going on the attack. Seeking was once the master of setting up discreet one-on-one compensated relationships, which is what most of the guys here use it for. But many discussion sites now have links to specific profiles where her prices and specific sexual services are detailed in the discussion post.

[URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SeekingArrangement[/URL]

Hey Mongerer88, Happy New Year!

Since you have a lot of experience in Montreal, I was wondering if you have played in the MTL sugar bowl. It would seem to be a great city for SA. I always found Montreal women to be more libertine compared to other North American women.

In regards to SA being deemed a sexual procurement site, a MTL buddy of ours was banned from SA for sending out messages to the girls asking "how much?" and even maybe "condom required?' Haha. Anyways, I don't think he is poor or cheap. He's just a bit impatient.

Even if the SA site was domiciled in a tolerant country, isn't possible the USA Law enforcement could monkey around with the site through USA Internet providers? There is a Canadian escort ad site mentioned often where I can't see the photos here in the USA However, other sites that were shutdown by USA LE have come right back based in the Netherlands. It's all quite confusing and I don't think USA Law enforcement is sure of what is doing. They play sort of a sporadic whack-a-mole game with the internet sex sites. I'm also sure that international internet governance prevents them from trying to run around censoring the global internet.

Yes, there has been a lot of great information here and yes sadly I see SA going the way it did in the USA in a lot of other countries with guys using it as a an escort site that will attract the scammers. SA has been gold in Colombia, silver in Mexico, and quite frankly shit now in the USA. In 2009, SA in the USA was gold.

I wrote a long post about my stories, and I think it would bore everyone so I am going to cut to the chase and tell you what I learned in the past year: what I have learned and the advice I will give.

The first and unpleasant truth I will give is that when you are giving women money with the expectation of sex, she is a working girl and you are a john. The lines "No, she really likes me. I am just giving her money. It is monthly so she does not feel like a working girl ETC" are all bullshit.

A pleasant truth was that I found that hot women abroad were willing to fuck me without a promise of money. I got all bogged down into the definition of a working girl, and Mr. Enternational had a much simpler one. Any women you pay money to for sex is a working girl, and he made the stipulation that he liked working girls. Any woman who asks "how much" is a working girl and I promised not to delude yourself.

The second pleasant truth, and this is something Mr. E is wrong about, is that all the women on seeking are working girls. I will make an exception for the USA but I have met women in other countries several times fucked them without offering anything up front. I have even found women who desperately try to show me they are not about money. The funniest experience was I gave one woman money. She later tried to give it back to me and told me that she loved me. With her, I insisted she keep it.

The second unpleasant truth is that Western men have had their egos so beaten up that they do not believe my second pleasant truth. The guys here have made it a mantra that these women really want to hang with men their own age from their own countries. There is this idea that the women are telling us they love us so they can suck us dry or if not that, doing the long con.

Western men are oblivious to the state these women are in. I want to ask the Western men: have you seen the living conditions of these women? Their economic prospects? And the men these supposedly want to date?

I will embellish this point with a story. The breakup with my fiancé had left my ego bruised. I didn't propose to a hot woman I just met, but I mentioned a fiancé visa to her as a way we could get to know each other better. She asked herself what was wrong with me that I proposed to her so fast. She kept me at a distance because she did not want to introduce me to her family. Once she distanced herself, I did likewise and kind of forgot about her.

She asked what was wrong. I said we had no future. She admitted to me that her family would probably not accept me and said that she wanted to be friends. I said that was fine and then she sent me a bunch of nude videos which meant we were going to be friends with benefits.

I wanted to ask her. "So your last boyfriend, the one who cheated on you, gave you a STD, beat you, and you spent all your money on, was your family okay with him but not me?" I realized asking that would get me in trouble. I then asked myself, "So your concession prize is fucking a hot women who is totally in love with you, and you do not have to pay her, make a commitment, or meet her family?" Oh darn.

The third pleasant truth is that I learned the best way to have a woman want to commit to you is to not give her one. The hottest SB I have is a Mexican woman. I knew that we could only have fun together because she would spend every dime I had if we got serious. Here is a woman that 9 out of 10 men would die to have as their wife appearance wise, and I am uninterested. She asked me what our future was and I said, "We continue to have fun and when the relationship is not fun, we go our own ways. " She said I was being mean to her and then she fucked the shit out of me.

The third unpleasant truth is that it took me too long to understand the third pleasant truth.

The fourth unpleasant truth is that men are getting fucked in the relationship game and instead of doing something about it are whining about it. I would spend money about both my ex-wife and ex-fiance and they would turn me down for sex. My ex put me in a horrible position. She quit giving me blowjobs and then would ***** about how I was cheating on her. My ex-fiance was the same way. The more I gave her the less she gave me sexually.

Women have changed the rules. Men hear the marriage vows and say for better or worse and they think it means for better or worse. Women stop listening after better. If they are unhappy in a commitment, they blow off their vows and leave. Now the dumb part is the women I have seen do this in know they are probably making a change for the worst but cannot help themselves. The women are so unhappy and think nothing could be worse than their current state, and God is happy to show them how things can and will be worse. Maybe there are women who upgrade in a breakup or divorce, but that has not been the case with me.

All this crap about men's rights and MGTOW is stupid. Do something about it and quit bitching.

The fourth and final pleasant truth is I know what makes me happy and that is fucking women and getting a great blowjob. For the last 10 years of my marriage, my ex did not give me head. She bitched about me cheating on her and the line that got the most traction with her and everyone else was that she did not give me head for 10 years. She tried to shame me. "I wanted to but it was so dirty down there", and I said, "That is funny. The other women didn't seem to mind. " When my ex started to pull the same shit: no oral sex and one position sex, I asked if the problem was me. My brother admitted the sex life in his marriage had gone to shit and then I remembered Chris Rock saying that every married guy got the same shitty ass blowjob.

In the last year, I have rarely been turned down for sex, and I wondered why, and the reality is that I will no longer have anything long term with any woman not interested in sexual pleasing me. I wish that this was my discovery but the truth is that I just have found great women who want to please me. This New Year's I had four stunning women all tell me they loved me and hoped to see me soon.

I have had people accuse me of bragging on this score but the truth is I mention this because if I can get this, you can too.

Is there any guy who does not like getting a blow job? Then why are you / we accepting not getting them? Call me all the names you want: a cheater, afraid of commitment, a pervert, a sex addict, but I am going to get my blowjobs. If a woman does not want to blow me, she does not want to be with me and on to the next one.

I grant you that maybe these truth and untruths are obvious, however I am not just talking about these things but feel they are right and are acting on them. Warren Buffett admitted the best time to invest and be greedy is when others are fearful. That is being a contrarian. How many people do you know are true contrarians though and when their portfolio goes down by 50% are truly happy and say, "Yeah, I get to buy more of stock X at a discount!" Most of the time I hear that I do not think the person is happy but making excuses for his sagging portfolio. Peter Lynch said of being a contrarian, "I have met a lot of people smart enough to invest but do not have the stomach for it."

So 2020, as bad it was for others, was a good year for me.

Happy New Year to you, too.

I haven't explored the Montreal sugar scene. There are just so many escorts I want to see there in the $200-$300 Canadian dollar range, and so little time when I am there, that it never makes sense. I just emailed an escort there today to say Hello,. I probably wasted her time, but she was nice about it. I just wanted to get her in my contacts for when travel to Montreal is doable again.

I guess Seeking is so firmly entrenched in its position that it is not part of the sex work industry that it does not feel the need to go offshore. A great number of the USA Independent escorts I see now have Netherlands websites, so it certainly is the trend.

There was one USA Escort I follow on Twitter who got irritated at the perceived superiority of one of her Seeking friends and tweeted about showing her the posts she found online with a link to the Seeking profile that detailed the Seeking lady's prices and services. I found it amusing.

Time will tell if the publicity and those types of public posts ever create problems. It is certainly a different system than anything else, so who knows. Seeking doesn't ever seem to cross the line that the USA Government will argue in the Backpage case (if it ever goes to trial) that can't be crossed. Backpage allegedly would tell a customer whose ad was rejected due to solicitation concerns as to how to compose an acceptable ad. Seeking just kicks people off.

[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2517666]Hey Mongerer88, Happy New Year!

Since you have a lot of experience in Montreal, I was wondering if you have played in the MTL sugar bowl. It would seem to be a great city for SA. I always found Montreal women to be more libertine compared to other North American women.

In regards to SA being deemed a sexual procurement site, a MTL buddy of ours was banned from SA for sending out messages to the girls asking "how much?" and even maybe "condom required?' Haha. Anyways, I don't think he is poor or cheap. He's just a bit impatient.

Even if the SA site was domiciled in a tolerant country, isn't possible the USA Law enforcement could monkey around with the site through USA Internet providers? There is a Canadian escort ad site mentioned often where I can't see the photos here in the USA However, other sites that were shutdown by USA LE have come right back based in the Netherlands. It's all quite confusing and I don't think USA Law enforcement is sure of what is doing. They play sort of a sporadic whack-a-mole game with the internet sex sites. I'm also sure that international internet governance prevents them from trying to run around censoring the global internet.[/QUOTE]

Folks -- Need your opinion. Here is the message I received from a chick on SA.

"I don't have sex for money to meet up have coffee you can help me with my bills and we can see where it goes".

What do you think? Should I invest anything with the hope it may lead to something in the future?

My gut is to pass as it likely is just a carrot being dangled with no intention of sex in the future but wanted to get thoughts of the experienced members on this board.

[QUOTE=Luminous;2517959]Folks -- Need your opinion. Here is the message I received from a chick on SA.

"I don't have sex for money to meet up have coffee you can help me with my bills and we can see where it goes".

What do you think? Should I invest anything with the hope it may lead to something in the future?

My gut is to pass as it likely is just a carrot being dangled with no intention of sex in the future but wanted to get thoughts of the experienced members on this board.[/QUOTE]Well the short answer is run away. She's saying she wants something for nothing. Nope.

Longer answer is why did she even ask this? What did U say that make her think you are offering money for sex because this should never happen. The discussion should never get this explicit. Also is this discussion on SA or have you gone to text? I don't think I've ever had a discussion about a meetup right on SA. We always chat enough and get comfortable and go offline.

Easy thing is just ghost her. I guarantee she is not worth your time with that kind of dialog.

[QUOTE=Forgotten68;2517173]Hi you all,

Haven't really posted much here but used SA when I was in Lisbon and here is my report.

Girls quite a lot of them some seem to be scammers or just try and take advantage of you don't send any money before any meeting.

That should be obvious but you never know. Met with 6 girls PPM 2-300 3 of them stayed the night one of them for free.

Some of the girls take way to long to answer repeated with 2 of them only 1 of them I wouldn't have repeated with.[/QUOTE]Thank you for your contribution. I will add your results to our table. I had hoped Lisbon would be more like 100 - 200 EUR on average. Happy to see that you havn't been dissapointed as far as their looks are concerned.

[QUOTE=Luminous;2517959]Folks -- Need your opinion. Here is the message I received from a chick on SA.

"I don't have sex for money to meet up have coffee you can help me with my bills and we can see where it goes".

What do you think? Should I invest anything with the hope it may lead to something in the future?

My gut is to pass as it likely is just a carrot being dangled with no intention of sex in the future but wanted to get thoughts of the experienced members on this board.[/QUOTE]Your guts already gave you the soundest advice you could possibly get: A person that genuinely wants to build trust before engaging in more, will not charge for initial meetings. Someone who is testing the boundaries, makes you the hope of "let's see where it goes" and wants you to to pay their bills in return for platonic dates, is highly likely trying to milk you.

[QUOTE=Luminous;2517959]Folks -- Need your opinion. Here is the message I received from a chick on SA.

"I don't have sex for money to meet up have coffee you can help me with my bills and we can see where it goes".

What do you think? Should I invest anything with the hope it may lead to something in the future?

My gut is to pass as it likely is just a carrot being dangled with no intention of sex in the future but wanted to get thoughts of the experienced members on this board.[/QUOTE]Steve9696 hit the nail on the head. She is asking for compensation for coffee. This is a huge red flag in my book. My general rule is not to hand over any cash until after we have sealed our arrangement. It's the fairest way.

Cut bait and pull up some other fish.

02.

[QUOTE=Luminous;2517959]Folks -- Need your opinion. Here is the message I received from a chick on SA.

"I don't have sex for money to meet up have coffee you can help me with my bills and we can see where it goes".

What do you think? Should I invest anything with the hope it may lead to something in the future?

My gut is to pass as it likely is just a carrot being dangled with no intention of sex in the future but wanted to get thoughts of the experienced members on this board.[/QUOTE]As everyone else says, drop her, but here's how I would break it down and why you would fail to get what you want, in bullet form:

- She's establishing the conditions and setting up the coffee date, and you have no frame (that's why you're asking the board what to do). The relationship, should there ever be one, would be lop-sided and inverted. As the pickup community would say, you need to establish your frame.

- Never discuss anything transactional on SA, even if she brings it up first and even if it is indirect. I would delete the thread and block her, so the moderators can't pin it on you in any way. Personally, I don't even exchange such details on a burner phone. Only in person, but that's just me and I know others are less risk averse.

- If you're looking for a genuine GND that likes older men, as I am, these types never bring up compensation in advance of a meeting, and usually let you take the lead.

- Her grammar sucks. She wrote a run-on sentence without punctuation, meaning she spent no time on it and doesn't care how it comes across. In effect, she doesn't value you and she's not trying to prove her worth. Or, her education is lacking. Either way, it's one of my flags. Not a hard & fast one, and if she had other compensating qualities, I can look past it, but in an environment of abundance, it's usually a disqualifier for me.

- On a slightly positive note, I do like coffee dates for a first meet (but uncompensated of course). If a girl asks for a fancy dinner on the first meet, it indicates a bit of sharkiness and materialism. But back to the first bullet, the man needs to set the date.

CR.

Steve9696 hit the nail on the head. She is asking for compensation for coffee. This is a huge red flag in my book. My general rule is not to hand over any cash until after we have sealed our arrangement. It's the fairest way.

Cut bait and pull up some other fish.

Run. I had an issue with this over the weekend. We agreed if there was connection, we would start an arrangement after we had drinks. She was nice, but did not dress up for the meeting and I was just not that attracted to her physically. I agreed to meet a second time, I offered to pay for her Uber. She declined then asked for money, I walked off. She later begged for Uber fair.

[QUOTE=Luminous;2517959]"I don't have sex for money to meet up have coffee you can help me with my bills and we can see where it goes".

What do you think? Should I invest anything with the hope it may lead to something in the future?

My gut is to pass as it likely is just a carrot being dangled with no intention of sex in the future but wanted to get thoughts of the experienced members on this board.[/QUOTE]Your gut is right. Anytime you sense that she is a scam artist she probably is.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2517973]Well the short answer is run away. She's saying she wants something for nothing. Nope.

Longer answer is why did she even ask this? What did U say that make her think you are offering money for sex because this should never happen. The discussion should never get this explicit. Also is this discussion on SA or have you gone to text? I don't think I've ever had a discussion about a meetup right on SA. We always chat enough and get comfortable and go offline.

Easy thing is just ghost her. I guarantee she is not worth your time with that kind of dialog.[/QUOTE]Steve is, as is usual, totally right.

I personally have not jumped in the SA game yet (waiting to be vaccinated), but I do lurk on SA to see what is out there and fantasize about how I'll play that game. And I'll say I'm actually impressed with how transparent many women are. Many are totally open saying that they are looking for online only relationships, or in person but no sex, or even "no guarantees but let's see where this goes" (IE "I'm maintaining the power in this relationship." To me, that would be a hard and immediate pass, absolutely no interest in engaging, but I do respect how they set their boundaries up front so you can not waste your time.

[QUOTE=AmericanPi;2518144]Steve is, as is usual, totally right.

I personally have not jumped in the SA game yet (waiting to be vaccinated), but I do lurk on SA to see what is out there and fantasize about how I'll play that game. And I'll say I'm actually impressed with how transparent many women are. Many are totally open saying that they are looking for online only relationships, or in person but no sex, or even "no guarantees but let's see where this goes" (IE "I'm maintaining the power in this relationship." To me, that would be a hard and immediate pass, absolutely no interest in engaging, but I do respect how they set their boundaries up front so you can not waste your time.[/QUOTE]On-line is totally a no go. Big waste of time. They are also going to ask for an allowance, Hell no, get a Life Coach cheaper.

[QUOTE=Luminous;2517959]Folks -- Need your opinion. Here is the message I received from a chick on SA.

"I don't have sex for money to meet up have coffee you can help me with my bills and we can see where it goes".

What do you think? Should I invest anything with the hope it may lead to something in the future?

My gut is to pass as it likely is just a carrot being dangled with no intention of sex in the future but wanted to get thoughts of the experienced members on this board.[/QUOTE]The whole idea of the pay for play scheme is to have as close to a sure thing as possible. If you are back to a traditional dating scheme where you only get sex if she deems you are worthy, you might as well go back to ordinary dating. These gals get hundreds of hits, and there are enough fools to pay in the hopes of success that your chance of success is 1%. As it stands, you are going to have to throw a bit of money out there just to play. No reason or logic in paying for the hopes of getting something. Steve is exactly right. Move on.

Lest you think all my SA dates are fruitful let me share the most interesting fail that happened recently. The moral of the story is if you feel like the chemistry is off a bit youre right. It's just not there and forcing it doesn't help.

So recall I had the closed mouth kiss with Arianna to end the night. But by text she assures me she's a passionate girl just shy at first. We agree to meetup again and I use the same line I used with Sarah "expand on that kiss" and she seems down to do so.

We meet at a little dive bar and have some snacks and drinks. Her drink is not very good and she's not drinking much but I am throwing them back. She's again awkward and shy and I am pretty sure this is going nowhere. Again in direct mode I say "I find you confusing. Your a really nice girl but I'm afraid we have no chemistry. We could do one of two things. Go to your car and make out and see or go to a hotel and make out and see. " She says she's on her period. I say that's ok we can figure fun without that. She says ok let's go to the hotel. I was really surprised.

So I book a last minute booking and we are in the room 10 minutes later. She's got a headache and doesn't want to drink (so her shields remain high). I'll spare the gory details but the kissing is pretty lame but I keep working some game. Eventually it's clear I am down for a BJ but she literally says "I don't give blowjobs". And I tell her that's super odd because I've never been with a girl that didn't. Again Long story short she eventually blows me and it's a very good BBBJ. But like totally without life or passion or chemistry. I bless her with a hot load in her mouth regardless because her technique is excellent. But it's just weird. Like being blown by your sister as a favor or something.

I did CashApp her some $$ which seems only fair but Next day we agree the chemistry is not there and move on. But frankly on very good terms. Like we gave it a go and good luck finding ur thing.

Oh well can't win them all. A few takeaways:

1. Awesome text vibe does not always lead to awesome in person vibe. Tho I still think its a leading indicator.
2. If u think the chemistry is off it probably is. But that doesnt mean I wont get off. Mixed results here recall I bedded Jesse right after she said I cant have sex with a guy I just met and it was passionate. And I managed to eek out a BJ here but mechanical.
3. Sex without passion just aint that great (for me)
4. When something feels off just say It. U can work thru it.
5. A fail doesnt have to be nasty. It can be a friendly fail.

Folks. Thanks for all your insights. This is what makes this forum awesome, learn from collective wisdom of each other.

[QUOTE=Akibono;2518374]The whole idea of the pay for play scheme is to have as close to a sure thing as possible. If you are back to a traditional dating scheme where you only get sex if she deems you are worthy, you might as well go back to ordinary dating. These gals get hundreds of hits, and there are enough fools to pay in the hopes of success that your chance of success is 1%. As it stands, you are going to have to throw a bit of money out there just to play. No reason or logic in paying for the hopes of getting something. Steve is exactly right. Move on.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2519001]A few takeaways:

1. Awesome text vibe does not always lead to awesome in person vibe. Tho I still think its a leading indicator.
2. If u think the chemistry is off it probably is. But that doesnt mean I wont get off. Mixed results here recall I bedded Jesse right after she said I cant have sex with a guy I just met and it was passionate. And I managed to eek out a BJ here but mechanical.
3. Sex without passion just aint that great (for me)
4. When something feels off just say It. U can work thru it.
5. A fail doesnt have to be nasty. It can be a friendly fail.[/QUOTE]This is one reason I avoid extended text messaging, and get right to the meet & greet as soon as possible. It's the only way to gauge chemistry, and that's essential to me as well, if you're into real sugar dating. A bit of flirtatious text banter ahead of the meet can help set the right mood for the date (as long as you can do it without sounding like a creep), but real girls want to meet, and there's simply no substitute for the short range exchange of pheromones. Incidentally, the hotter the girl, the quickest your close to in-person date needs to be, from my experience -they're just in too much demand for prolonged courtship, no matter how special you think you are. Where I differ is, if the connection isn't there, and sometimes it just isn't, I don't push it. I prefer things to develop organically. But otherwise, I agree that missed connections are best ended with a polite smile and a genuine thank you. Karma will reward you eventually.

[QUOTE=CarloRogue;2519371]This is one reason I avoid extended text messaging, and get right to the meet & greet as soon as possible. It's the only way to gauge chemistry, and that's essential to me as well, if you're into real sugar dating. A bit of flirtatious text banter ahead of the meet can help set the right mood for the date (as long as you can do it without sounding like a creep), but real girls want to meet, and there's simply no substitute for the short range exchange of pheromones. Incidentally, the hotter the girl, the quickest your close to in-person date needs to be, from my experience -they're just in too much demand for prolonged courtship, no matter how special you think you are. Where I differ is, if the connection isn't there, and sometimes it just isn't, I don't push it. I prefer things to develop organically. But otherwise, I agree that missed connections are best ended with a polite smile and a genuine thank you. Karma will reward you eventually.[/QUOTE]Yep, I do the same. Since I am primarily dealing with girls in MTY, I convert them to WhatsApp as soon as possible. The girls that are actually interested with switch, the others have many excuse why they will not, those are usually scammers, 85%. Everyone is on WhatsApp in Mexico now.

[QUOTE=CarloRogue;2519371]This is one reason I avoid extended text messaging, and get right to the meet & greet as soon as possible. It's the only way to gauge chemistry, and that's essential to me as well,.[/QUOTE]For a moment there, I thought I wrote this post. I totally agree with this.

I am a bit surprised that no one has raised this topic, but have any of you guys met married women on SA?

I met one married person on SA while I was in a small city in the states. She was totally into me based on my pic and profile, but I eventually decided to bail on her because I thought it would be too weird to be with a married chick, and I was also worried that her husband would find out and kill me.

However, I later had a great fling with a woman in San Francisco that I met on SA, and eventually she told me that she was married, but she was in a sexless marriage and that she desperately needed to have NSA sex. She said she tried different websites, but eventually decided that the most successful and the most alpha males were on SA. When it came to payment, she never cared about it too much, and just viewed any gift or cash as a nice bonus, but she didn't need the money. I have to say, the sex was incredible. She really was starving for sex. After that, I started to cruise SA to see if I could find other married women, and I did. I found two others that I hit it off with, and we tried to meet up, but both of them were so busy with their family lives, and so I never ended up meeting either of them.

The other weird thing is that every single one of these married women said that their husbands were okay with them having sex outside of their marriage.

Any of you guys have any experience with married women on SA?

BTW, I bring this up because my SB #2 is a married woman. She's been married for over 20 years. She said that the last time she had sex was over 6 years ago, when she had a previous affair. She too is sex starved. If I wanted to have sex with her for the entire day, she would be totally down for it. There were times when we were at it for several hours, and I wanted to stop or rest, but she would then climb on top of me and she would do all the work. She never wants to stop. I always have to tell her that I have to go to work, just so we can stop having sex. Recently, she told me that we could meet at her home, while her husband was away at work. Man, this sounds like something out of the 1980's. Do people still do this?

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2519698]I am a bit surprised that no one has raised this topic, but have any of you guys met married women on SA?

I met one married person on SA while I was in a small city in the states. She was totally into me based on my pic and profile, but I eventually decided to bail on her because I thought it would be too weird to be with a married chick, and I was also worried that her husband would find out and kill me.

However, I later had a great fling with a woman in San Francisco that I met on SA, and eventually she told me that she was married, but she was in a sexless marriage and that she desperately needed to have NSA sex. She said she tried different websites, but eventually decided that the most successful and the most alpha males were on SA. When it came to payment, she never cared about it too much, and just viewed any gift or cash as a nice bonus, but she didn't need the money. I have to say, the sex was incredible. She really was starving for sex. After that, I started to cruise SA to see if I could find other married women, and I did. I found two others that I hit it off with, and we tried to meet up, but both of them were so busy with their family lives, and so I never ended up meeting either of them.

The other weird thing is that every single one of these married women said that their husbands were okay with them having sex outside of their marriage.

Any of you guys have any experience with married women on SA?

BTW, I bring this up because my SB #2 is a married woman. She's been married for over 20 years. She said that the last time she had sex was over 6 years ago, when she had a previous affair. She too is sex starved. If I wanted to have sex with her for the entire day, she would be totally down for it. There were times when we were at it for several hours, and I wanted to stop or rest, but she would then climb on top of me and she would do all the work. She never wants to stop. I always have to tell her that I have to go to work, just so we can stop having sex. Recently, she told me that we could meet at her home, while her husband was away at work. Man, this sounds like something out of the 1980's. Do people still do this?[/QUOTE]Well I think what you found in the married nympho is unusual, but yeh I've come across married women and yes the desire can be passionate. Early in my new city had a lunch date with a girl was married (26). Didn't work out. Turns out she had a six month old baby and suffering post partum depression so that was weird.

Turns out Sarah is married still! She told me she was divorced but later confessed she was still married and just filed. She was the most passionate sex I ever had. I say "was" because I just got the Dear John that she doesn't want to have sex anymore. I think I might have misplayed this a bit because we stopped doing the date part and just straight to hotel. I think her mind started to figure out she was selling sex and it rebelled given her upbringing. I suppose a lot of these girls where it’s their first time can be shortlived anyhow. Think we met five times and it was BBFS mostly so that’s pretty good.

Also my recent fail but get a BJ date was also married. She's only 21 now and got married young. She didn't tell me at first but confessed she is still technically married on date 2.

So both of those are not quite married and cheating. More technically married. But yeah I am surprised there are gals out there who "need it" when lots of us have gals at home that don't want it. LOL.

I am headed to CDMX in a couple weeks. I have started scouting on SA. Any good leads anyone might share?

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2519698]I am a bit surprised that no one has raised this topic, but have any of you guys met married women on SA?[/QUOTE]Yes, and they come in different flavors. The type you describe is the older woman in a sexless marriage that is otherwise committed to her marriage. Usually they do this with the husband's consent, as in your case. I have also come across one that admitted she was doing it behind her husband's back, and that I would be her first affair. She had young kids, and I couldn't get past the idea of being a homewrecker, so I passed.

The second type is the swinger hotwife, usually a bit older like the first category, in a very open relationship and looking to post numbers so to speak (usually, although they won't come out and admit that). I've dabbled in the swinger scene for several years and have occasionally run across an SA profile of someone I had previously met at a swing event. Sometimes they're looking for a threesome with hubby, sometimes a partner to take to events and parties. I've always passed on these, since it's not the dynamic I come to SA for, and I can always have them via other means.

The last category is a relatively new phenomenon, which is the married girl (like early 20's) in an open relationship. It seems that many in the younger generation don't put the same traditional value into marriage that our generation does (or did). Perhaps they're trying to satisfy their parents by getting married, but they haven't lived out their single life yet, so they have an open marriage. I'm not sure, but it is a generational difference. I've had short term relationships with a couple of these. I say short term because they were really into it, but then suddenly ghosted me. I take it that their emotional needs are satisfied elsewhere, so it's harder to build any kind of friendship-like connection with them. But, these are really fun, I must confess. I had one young Asian mother a couple years ago, who was still lactating from giving birth just a few months prior. Just a crazy experience (got to check breastfeeding off the bucket list).

I met a girl via SA a couple of years ago, she is living in a city I visit a couple of times per year in my job.
Every time I am in town, we meet. I am 60+ and she is 31. She is slim, classy and very pretty. Sex is perfect. .
This has been ongoing for 3-4 years.

Already on the second date, I by "mistake" noticed a text message popping up on her phone while she was in the shower. A full name of the sender and a couple of hearts in the message. .
She had never told me her full name, but now it was a one minute job to find out all details via social media.
(Also found out that she had a job as a sales executive at a large company.).
She was clearly dating this 40+ guy, they also married and moved in together about two years ago.

All this time, and still (with a covid pause for the moment) she is still seeing me when I am in town.
I cannot understand why in the world she is (still) seeing me!?
She has a very handsome man, she is very pretty, she has a top job and she is problably well payed.
How do I fit in this picture, guy double her age? Help me to understand this! .

[QUOTE=BlueSwede;2520133]I met a girl via SA a couple of years ago, she is living in a city I visit a couple of times per year in my job.
Every time I am in town, we meet. I am 60+ and she is 31. She is slim, classy and very pretty. Sex is perfect. .
This has been ongoing for 3-4 years.

Already on the second date, I by "mistake" noticed a text message popping up on her phone while she was in the shower. A full name of the sender and a couple of hearts in the message. .
She had never told me her full name, but now it was a one minute job to find out all details via social media.
(Also found out that she had a job as a sales executive at a large company.).
She was clearly dating this 40+ guy, they also married and moved in together about two years ago.

All this time, and still (with a covid pause for the moment) she is still seeing me when I am in town.
I cannot understand why in the world she is (still) seeing me!?
She has a very handsome man, she is very pretty, she has a top job and she is problably well payed.
How do I fit in this picture, guy double her age? Help me to understand this! .[/QUOTE]Enjoy it, why it last, do not question the arrangement, have fun. One of the girls I am with in MTY is model, smoking hot and so nice. I ask myself the same questions, then I think about it. I will Continue to have fun and see what happens. I am 51 and she is 26, too much fun and some of the best sex of my life. Unfortunately I have not seen her for 2 weeks her parents are in town, but they are leaving Monday or Tuesday. I need to go back to Austin for work, but will be back the following week, depending on the lockdown, they are definitely getting stricter in Mexico.

Have fun.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2519001]...Eventually it's clear I am down for a BJ but she literally says "I don't give blowjobs". And I tell her that's super odd because I've never been with a girl that didn't. Again Long story short she eventually blows me and it's a very good BBBJ. But like totally without life or passion or chemistry. I bless her with a hot load in her mouth regardless because her technique is excellent....[/QUOTE]Something seems really off here. So she doesn't do blowjobs and then takes a load in her mouth? Did she run screaming to the bathroom or just sucked it down like a champ?

[QUOTE=DickusMaximus;2520248]Something seems really off here. So she doesn't do blowjobs and then takes a load in her mouth? Did she run screaming to the bathroom or just sucked it down like a champ?[/QUOTE]Of course she does blowjobs. She was just putting up resistance that had to be broken thru. It was clear once broken thru that she knew her way around a dick. Actually she did that thing where she deep throat's and then uses her tongue at base of shaft. Only had this with a Vegas hooker before.

I've learned by reading a bit of PUA / Nanpa to be persistent and work thru this kind of resistance. I still think my crowning moment was with Jesse when she said "I can't have sex with a guy I just met" only to work thru that resistance and fuck a short time later.

These were different tho. With Jesse it was a matter of kissing passionately and working her tits till she's worked up and then teasing her pussy till she said "OK we can fuck now. Just turn down the lights. " LOL. With Arianna it was more her proving she's not weird or stuck up. I left out a bit of the back and forth. When i said it was weird she said well i mean I used to. Actually I used to be a **** and I give a great blowjob. Of course I said oh interesting and at some point I said something about her showing me those skills.

So she did the BJ as a point of pride. She's a weird pretty damaged chick. And really a nice person under it all. I realize also that Jesse was only 20 and Arianna just turned 21. So younger girls. I notice a huge difference between 21 and 23 year olds. Girls grow up in those two years more than any other. On the other hand Valentina was 20 when she took me to the swingers club LOL. So YMMV.

And oh, she went and spit. But didn't make a big deal about it.

Sometimes, once you're in, you're in forever. I've had several ex-GFs that later married, and ex-WGs that later went legit, and they are still DTF with me because, after us having done the deed a dozen plus times already, who cares if we do it a few more times? At least that's how I think their subconscious mind works. I currently have a situation similar to yours. She lives in a city that I visit once or twice per year. When I'm in town, we just meet for sex. No dating or anything. I just go over to her place and we do the deed. Been going on for almost 10 years now. Another FWB told me that she got engaged, but she said we'the still be FWBs. Not lying. Not bragging. I'm sure others have experienced the same. Enjoy it. Don't question it.

[QUOTE=BlueSwede;2520133]I met a girl via SA a couple of years ago, she is living in a city I visit a couple of times per year in my job.
Every time I am in town, we meet. I am 60+ and she is 31. She is slim, classy and very pretty. Sex is perfect. .
This has been ongoing for 3-4 years.

Already on the second date, I by "mistake" noticed a text message popping up on her phone while she was in the shower. A full name of the sender and a couple of hearts in the message. .
She had never told me her full name, but now it was a one minute job to find out all details via social media.
(Also found out that she had a job as a sales executive at a large company.).
She was clearly dating this 40+ guy, they also married and moved in together about two years ago.

All this time, and still (with a covid pause for the moment) she is still seeing me when I am in town.
I cannot understand why in the world she is (still) seeing me!?
She has a very handsome man, she is very pretty, she has a top job and she is problably well payed.
How do I fit in this picture, guy double her age? Help me to understand this! .[/QUOTE].

Ever tell a girl that "all girls are bad at giving BJs"? Sometimes, they cannot wait to prove you wrong, LOLOL.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2520264]Of course she does blowjobs. She was just putting up resistance that had to be broken thru. It was clear once broken thru that she knew her way around a dick. Actually she did that thing where she deep throat's and then uses her tongue at base of shaft. Only had this with a Vegas hooker before.

I've learned by reading a bit of PUA / Nanpa to be persistent and work thru this kind of resistance. I still think my crowning moment was with Jesse when she said "I can't have sex with a guy I just met" only to work thru that resistance and fuck a short time later.

These were different tho. With Jesse it was a matter of kissing passionately and working her tits till she's worked up and then teasing her pussy till she said "OK we can fuck now. Just turn down the lights. " LOL. With Arianna it was more her proving she's not weird or stuck up. I left out a bit of the back and forth. When i said it was weird she said well i mean I used to. Actually I used to be a **** and I give a great blowjob. Of course I said oh interesting and at some point I said something about her showing me those skills.

So she did the BJ as a point of pride. She's a weird pretty damaged chick. And really a nice person under it all. I realize also that Jesse was only 20 and Arianna just turned 21. So younger girls. I notice a huge difference between 21 and 23 year olds. Girls grow up in those two years more than any other. On the other hand Valentina was 20 when she took me to the swingers club LOL. So YMMV.

And oh, she went and spit. But didn't make a big deal about it.[/QUOTE].

[QUOTE=BlueSwede;2520133]She was clearly dating this 40+ guy, they also married and moved in together about two years ago.

All this time, and still (with a covid pause for the moment) she is still seeing me when I am in town.
I cannot understand why in the world she is (still) seeing me!?
She has a very handsome man, she is very pretty, she has a top job and she is problably well payed.
How do I fit in this picture, guy double her age? Help me to understand this!.[/QUOTE]It has been 10 years so I may as well brag now. Below are the photos of a married woman I was with. Two of the three photos are her and her fraternal twin sister.

I took the two of them to a business conference and let me tell you I know what it was like to be famous. Everyone wanted to talked to me and know what was up with me and them and I just said that these women worked for me. These two were actually smart enough to pull it off.

I do not know if the photos do her justice. When I saw her, I was like, "Damn, I think that is her. I hope that is her." When I took her on another trip, every minute somebody stopped us and asked of a pic of her. Maybe the pics do not do her justice, but she was a 10.

So why was she with me? Well, I did not know she was married at first. Slowly, the story came out. She had female surgery and her husband claimed to be unable to cum with masturbating and was suffering from blue balls. She fucked him and it was incredibly painful for her. She later found out that he had porn and masturbated all the time, and she was furious about that.

She was a housewife not working and frequently found fault with him and her kids. As hot as she was, I think even he got kind of tired of her. When they had sex, he would finish in less than a minute. She was so unsatisfied that she was like why even bother?

Then one time she came home to find lingerie near her bed that was not hers. I am sure he was handsome, and he was a military guy. When I was not talking to her about his sex life, I could tell she loved him and admired him. Also, he was supporting her and their children. Maybe he was the kind of sexual scum she was talking about but I could see how she drove him to be like that.

A few months after seeing me, she sadly got raped. She was afraid to let any man touch her but me and her husband, and he was not satisfying her. I saw her every three months or so. She would get up and ride me as long as I could stand it. She was so happy fucking me. Man did that woman have endurance. She even confessed to dreaming about my penis one time before we met.

I mentioned being a little more serious one time and was shot down which kind of pissed me off. She also wanted huge $$ and she could get it. If she were an escort, she could make $700 an hour easy, and I was just paying her $500 for a day or several hours. Thing is that I was seeing women who were just in good in bed for half that and I eventually felt a little guilty about the marriage thing. Part of the time when I was seeing her, I went through a divorce, and I have to say I kind of resented her living off her husband while talking shit about him. That hit too close to home for me.

So Blue Swede, to answer your question, why is she with you? Honestly, you are probably a better fuck than you think. A lot of guys do not give a shit about pleasing their wife, and they are off fucking new and strange. I am sick of women that I see for a time that inevitably do not care about how they perform in the bedroom. With my ex, eventually, there was no oral sex, and we only did missionary. She may be a great fuck for you but horrible for him doing the one position no oral shit I endured. I would be shocked if the husband is not playing around too.

I assumed good looking men are great in the bedroom, but I was surprised when a black woman I was with told me that I was better than most black athletes. Hell, she even mentioned football and basketball players by name. These men have chiseled bodies and I assumed were very well hung. I didn't believe her but when you have five or ten women tell you something and they are screaming with an orgasm and telling you how great you are, I did finally think there was something to it. What I have found is that a lot of the "great looking" guys are all roided up and cannot get an erection. Either that or they expect the women to do all the work. She mentioned one basketball player and said, "he is the only guy I have been with who is as good as you." I was like. WTF?

When a 25 year old Colombian fucked me the first time, she said it was the best fuck she ever had, and I finally believed it. I am in my 50's, could stand to lose a few pounds, and do not fit anyone's stereotype of what a good lover looks like. This time I am not bragging. Only reason I am bringing this up is do not concede that you are a worse lover than her husband. You probably care more about pleasing your woman than he does.

So why did the blonde fuck me? I was a nice guy, generous, good in the sack, and she felt safe with me. I wish I would have had the confidence 10 years ago that I have today. I would have been unstoppable, but I had a wife who could shame Mother Theresa, and I stupidly put up with her shit.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2520325]Sometimes, once you're in, you're in forever. I've had several ex-GFs that later married, and ex-WGs that later went legit, and they are still DTF with me because, after us having done the deed a dozen plus times already, who cares if we do it a few more times? At least that's how I think their subconscious mind works. I currently have a situation similar to yours. She lives in a city that I visit once or twice per year. When I'm in town, we just meet for sex. No dating or anything. I just go over to her place and we do the deed. Been going on for almost 10 years now. Another FWB told me that she got engaged, but she said we'the still be FWBs. Not lying. Not bragging. I'm sure others have experienced the same. Enjoy it. Don't question it.

.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2520142]Enjoy it, why it last, do not question the arrangement, have fun. One of the girls I am with in MTY is model, smoking hot and so nice. I ask myself the same questions, then I think about it. I will Continue to have fun and see what happens. I am 51 and she is 26, too much fun and some of the best sex of my life. Unfortunately I have not seen her for 2 weeks her parents are in town, but they are leaving Monday or Tuesday. I need to go back to Austin for work, but will be back the following week, depending on the lockdown, they are definitely getting stricter in Mexico.

Have fun.[/QUOTE]Thanks for the replies!

I will of course not question this. I have tried to briefly discuss the topic och her "boyfriend", as she mentioned that she had met a guy and didn't know how that will develope in future. (that was about the time they married).

She just change subject and I will not push it.

Interesting is than she lately prefer to meet either early evening (like 5 pm) or mornings, so I guess she does this on her way to or from work. .

Suits me perfect. I can meet another SB in the evening and get a nice "room service" in the morning!

I am just waiting for this pandemic situation to end, as everybody else.

[QUOTE=BlueSwede;2520475]Thanks for the replies!

I will of course not question this. I have tried to briefly discuss the topic och her "boyfriend", as she mentioned that she had met a guy and didn't know how that will develope in future. (that was about the time they married).

She just change subject and I will not push it.

Interesting is than she lately prefer to meet either early evening (like 5 pm) or mornings, so I guess she does this on her way to or from work. .

Suits me perfect. I can meet another SB in the evening and get a nice "room service" in the morning!

I am just waiting for this pandemic situation to end, as everybody else.[/QUOTE]Have fun, enjoy the ride. I have a couple of girls that can only meet during the day. At first I real did not enjoy meeting during the day, but they understand if work calls, I have to do my job.

The Pandemic and Lockdowns totally suck.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2520357]It has been 10 years so I may as well brag now. Below are the photos of a married woman I was with. Two of the three photos are her and her fraternal twin sister.

I took the two of them to a business conference and let me tell you I know what it was like to be famous. Everyone wanted to talked to me and know what was up with me and them and I just said that these women worked for me. These two were actually smart enough to pull it off.

I do not know if the photos do her justice. When I saw her, I was like, "Damn, I think that is her. I hope that is her." When I took her on another trip, every minute somebody stopped us and asked of a pic of her. Maybe the pics do not do her justice, but she was a 10.

So why was she with me? Well, I did not know she was married at first. Slowly, the story came out. She had female surgery and her husband claimed to be unable to cum with masturbating and was suffering from blue balls. She fucked him and it was incredibly painful for her. She later found out that he had porn and masturbated all the time, and she was furious about that.

She was a housewife not working and frequently found fault with him and her kids. As hot as she was, I think even he got kind of tired of her. When they had sex, he would finish in less than a minute. She was so unsatisfied that she was like why even bother?..[/QUOTE]Awesome, report as usual. We have many things in common. I like Moscow much better the Colombia, but I may have to meet you in Bogota one trip, when al this crap blew over.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2520357]It has been 10 years so I may as well brag now. Below are the photos of a married woman I was with. Two of the three photos are her and her fraternal twin sister.
t.[/QUOTE]Excellent report! Thanks for sharing your experiences. A lot of what you said hits the nail on the head.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2520606]Excellent report! Thanks for sharing your experiences. A lot of what you said hits the nail on the head.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=DramaFree11;2520508]Awesome, report as usual. We have many things in common. I like Moscow much better the Colombia, but I may have to meet you in Bogota one trip, when al this crap blew over.[/QUOTE]Thanks guys, DF, I really liked St. Petersburg much more than Moscow although I was very young when I was there. I recall the woman in St. Pete being better looking too. Have you been there? I definitely want to check Russia out. I am going to be fucking everything in sight after I finish getting my Covid vaccines.

I just wanted the input of you and all the other guys on this. Things have gotten somewhat back to normal in my life. I met a 25 year old girl off seeking that checks all the boxes for a wife. She has plans to marry me and have a kid with me, and I have not agreed to marry her but I have not shut her down either. A lot of guys do not believe me when I say I have gone to Colombia met women off seeking and fucked them for no cash, but I have, and she is one of many. I have paid the usual BF stuff like meals and hotel rooms but that is it. She is determined to show that she is not with me for money. (She has birth control implant and I still pull out BTW).

And then it hit me that I do not want to have a kid, and I am really unsure about being married again. I met a lot of older men chasing young tail, and I thought it looked pathetic but I have so many married friends and both partners are miserable like I used to be before my divorce. And these older guys at least looked happy. Someone here even commented that the pursuit of pussy kept him young, and I could see that being me.

This 25 year old Colombian is not the only one. I have four women constantly texting me telling me they love me. I like rotating them around and keeping things fresh. If one of the women gets bitchy or does not perform, I play it cool with her at best or dump her at worst.

With my ex-wife and fiancé, once I promised to be faithful to them, the desire to please me sexually stopped. I was like. Is this normal? Because for me it was not okay. Getting committed with me meant getting trapped into an unsatisfying sexual relationship. I gave more, and they gave less.

I was looking for answers and came upon this book: [URL]https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08PTFKLP6/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_d_asin_title_o01?ie=UTF8&psc=1[/URL].

The title is analyzing the ROI (return on investment) on the Pursuit of Women. He used eight criteria to disqualify women as not marriage material. One was being a single mom where you raise someone else's kid. 40% of American women between the ages of 18 and 35 are already single moms. 15% have self mutilated, and 25% have herpes. 60% of women are obese. When using all eight criteria, that knocked out close to 98% of all women.

Then there is the issue of whether the women want to date you. That is even worse. Only one in 200 women who are in the eligible pool will agree to date an average guy with an average income. People ask me why I use seeking and go to places like strip clubs to meet women, and I did not want to tell them the truth, but I guess there is no shame in it now. I looked for women in those places because those were the only places I could meet women who were not hideous. I did not know that was to be expected.

He then showed that your odds on you having a happy marriage was 16% but the odds of getting a divorce was 50%.

If you count the average amount a guy spends on wooing, maintaining, and disposing of a woman, that lifetime cost is $260,000. When you factor in emotional costs, he said basically your whole life you are working to pay for a woman.

His answer was to focus on improving yourself which I agree with. He then said not to run out and get a mistress but to date as many women as possible. He said most guys do not date that many women before getting married. But If you date 100 women, you will find two who are potential wife material.

It is this last point where I think the author is being a pussy. If your odds with marriage are 3 to 1 in favor of you going through the hell that is divorce versus a happy marriage, shouldn't we just give up on that idea? Shouldn't we focus on getting mistresses and saving our fucking money?

I am one hell of a lot happier having a bunch of sugar babies I rotate then I did having one woman. Am I missing something? Is society fucked up or are we?

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2520357]It has been 10 years so I may as well brag now. Below are the photos of a married woman I was with. Two of the three photos are her and her fraternal twin sister.[/QUOTE]Did you post photos?

Had a nice conversation last night with an SA girl who is had two year long arrangements in the past. She's pretty but nothing th write home about. Start planning a meetup and allowance comes up. I say let's just say what we both did in the past. I say I've done ppm of 200-400. She says we're are far apart and she is sad. I press and say what she has done. She seemed honest when she says 750 and 1000 ppm! Wtf? This is overnight but still OMFG. And this is a second tier city.

Best of luck to her. She's going to be looking a looooong time. Pretty sure I will no longer be fucking due to old age when she finds her daddy!

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2520912]Had a nice conversation last night with an SA girl who is had two year long arrangements in the past. She's pretty but nothing th write home about. Start planning a meetup and allowance comes up. I say let's just say what we both did in the past. I say I've done ppm of 200-400. She says we're are far apart and she is sad. I press and say what she has done. She seemed honest when she says 750 and 1000 ppm! Wtf? This is overnight but still OMFG. And this is a second tier city.

Best of luck to her. She's going to be looking a looooong time. Pretty sure I will no longer be fucking due to old age when she finds her daddy![/QUOTE]I have also noticed an increase in initial demands from girls, in MTY. I respond that there is a global pandemic and magor lockdowns in Mexico. Some agree. If they are not reasonable, I just move on. Many girls are very happy with $ 150-200 per meeting. Most of the girls I am with range from 6-7 with some 8's. I am 51 years old and the oldest girl I am with is 27, she is smoking hot and even a nicer person. I love being around her she never complains. She calls and texts me almost daily. Most of the other girls are between 20-23. Living the dream.

Steve, you just reminded me of another type of SB to avoid! Every time I met an SB that was coming off of a LT arrangement, their asking prices were sky high. I did have one exception, but her former SD was about 20 years older than me, and so she was happy to be with me, even though the arrangement was for way lower than what she was used to, simply because I wasn't a senior citizen.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2520912]Had a nice conversation last night with an SA girl who is had two year long arrangements in the past. She's pretty but nothing th write home about. Start planning a meetup and allowance comes up. I say let's just say what we both did in the past. I say I've done ppm of 200-400. She says we're are far apart and she is sad. I press and say what she has done. She seemed honest when she says 750 and 1000 ppm! Wtf? This is overnight but still OMFG. And this is a second tier city.

Best of luck to her. She's going to be looking a looooong time. Pretty sure I will no longer be fucking due to old age when she finds her daddy![/QUOTE].

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2520912]...She seemed honest when she says....[/QUOTE]Rule #2: Never believe what a sugar baby says. I've heard the 'my former SD gave me XXXX' so many times that they can't all be true. It's a negotiating position. Make a counter, if you like. Or not, and move on. There's just no reason to believe anything they say, which is fine. That's one of the great things about sugar dating, as I see it.

[QUOTE=CarloRogue;2521000]Rule #2: Never believe what a sugar baby says. I've heard the 'my former SD gave me XXXX' so many times that they can't all be true. It's a negotiating position. Make a counter, if you like. Or not, and move on. There's just no reason to believe anything they say, which is fine. That's one of the great things about sugar dating, as I see it.[/QUOTE]Exactly, not as much of issue in Moscow or Mexico, but in the States, yes. I usually just laughed at the be. S.

Steve,

You just reminded me of another type of SB to avoid! Every time I met an SB that was coming off of a LT arrangement, their asking prices were sky high. I did have one exception, but her former SD was about 20 years older than me, and so she was happy to be with me, even though the arrangement was for way lower than what she was used to, simply because I wasn't a senior citize.

Usually I agree with everything you say, but I slightly disagrees on this one. I think the girls that are actively on-ine SA. Are more likely to ask for more money. The reason why is you got these guys that are on the computer all day and actually never meet with any girls. They promise these girls the world, then they never actually meet with them. Very easy to lie when you are behind a computer and never go out in the real world. Many of you guys and pointed out some of these guys on other pages, as have I.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2520912]Start planning a meetup and allowance comes up. I say let's just say what we both did in the past. I say I've done ppm of 200-400. She says we're are far apart and she is sad. I press and say what she has done. She seemed honest when she says 750 and 1000 ppm! Wtf? This is overnight but still OMFG. And this is a second tier city.

Best of luck to her. She's going to be looking a looooong time. Pretty sure I will no longer be fucking due to old age when she finds her daddy![/QUOTE]Like the other guys mentioned, you bail on the one's who have had a previous SB. When you do a search on SA, I think the default is to find most recently active and it is probably a good idea to go to newest member on the search tab at least some of the time.

One of the things I learned is strip clubs was to have a short memory. You see one you like and ask her for a dance and she says yes and for whatever reason blows you off, you just move on to the next. I used to get upset when a woman told me yes and didn't show up. When you befriend the managers, you get insight into how crazy many of those women are.

In your case, Steve, this woman turns you down because she just does not how she would feel accepting "only" 400 dollars. She does not feel like a working girl for 750 but at 400 she does. It is not worth her time like anyone would pay her a $100 an hour for doing anything else.

As far as all those unpaid bills sitting on her desk and all her student loan debt, that is okay. She feels fine not paying those.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2520758]Thanks guys, DF, I really liked St. Petersburg much more than Moscow although I was very young when I was there. I recall the woman in St. Pete being better looking too. Have you been there? I definitely want to check Russia out. I am going to be fucking everything in sight after I finish getting my Covid vaccines.

I just wanted the input of you and all the other guys on this. Things have gotten somewhat back to normal in my life. I met a 25 year old girl off seeking that checks all the boxes for a wife. She has plans to marry me and have a kid with me, and I have not agreed to marry her but I have not shut her down either. A lot of guys do not believe me when I say I have gone to Colombia met women off seeking and fucked them for no cash, but I have, and she is one of many. I have paid the usual BF stuff like meals and hotel rooms but that is it. She is determined to show that she is not with me for money. (She has birth control implant and I still pull out BTW).

And then it hit me that I do not want to have a kid, and I am really unsure about being married again. I met a lot of older men chasing young tail, and I thought it looked pathetic but I have so many married friends and both partners are miserable like I used to be before my divorce. And these older guys at least looked happy. Someone here even commented that the pursuit of pussy kept him young, and I could see that being me.

This 25 year old Colombian is not the only one. I have four women constantly texting me telling me they love me. I like rotating them around and keeping things fresh. If one of the women gets bitchy or does not perform, I play it cool with her at best or dump her at worst.

With my ex-wife and fianc, once I promised to be faithful to them, the desire to please me sexually stopped. I was like. Is this normal? Because for me it was not okay. Getting committed with me meant getting trapped into an unsatisfying sexual relationship. I gave more, and they gave less.

I was looking for answers and came upon this book: [URL]https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08PTFKLP6/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_d_asin_title_o01?ie=UTF8&psc=1[/URL].

The title is analyzing the ROI (return on investment) on the Pursuit of Women. He used eight criteria to disqualify women as not marriage material. One was being a single mom where you raise someone else's kid. 40% of American women between the ages of 18 and 35 are already single moms. 15% have self mutilated, and 25% have herpes. 60% of women are obese. When using all eight criteria, that knocked out close to 98% of all women.

Then there is the issue of whether the women want to date you. That is even worse. Only one in 200 women who are in the eligible pool will agree to date an average guy with an average income. People ask me why I use seeking and go to places like strip clubs to meet women, and I did not want to tell them the truth, but I guess there is no shame in it now. I looked for women in those places because those were the only places I could meet women who were not hideous. I did not know that was to be expected.

He then showed that your odds on you having a happy marriage was 16% but the odds of getting a divorce was 50%.

If you count the average amount a guy spends on wooing, maintaining, and disposing of a woman, that lifetime cost is $260,000. When you factor in emotional costs, he said basically your whole life you are working to pay for a woman.

His answer was to focus on improving yourself which I agree with. He then said not to run out and get a mistress but to date as many women as possible. He said most guys do not date that many women before getting married. But If you date 100 women, you will find two who are potential wife material.

It is this last point where I think the author is being a pussy. If your odds with marriage are 3 to 1 in favor of you going through the hell that is divorce versus a happy marriage, shouldn't we just give up on that idea? Shouldn't we focus on getting mistresses and saving our fucking money?

I am one hell of a lot happier having a bunch of sugar babies I rotate then I did having one woman. Am I missing something? Is society fucked up or are we?[/QUOTE]Well you are going to get biased advice here clearly. But I think he's right. I think the odds of a long term sexually satisfying marriage is about 1-2%. No one tells us this going in. You have the benefit of experiencing it already. US women (maybe others) land their man and become fat and lazy and privileged. And expect us to just foot the bill. It's just wrong. I've chosen to stay married but I would be fucking insane if I didn't have my girls. I'm a much better husband when I'm fucking hotties. LOL.

Summary is no matter how awesome any of these girls ARE that is not the woman they will be and you are locked in. I'the advise never get locked in again. We all get locked in by buying into a dream that is not real and pay the remainder of our lives. You have gotten out. Don't get back in!

WOW took some time but I discovered this sub group! OK, this is going to be fun! Elvis and friends. Do you know anyone that can promise they would be happy with ONE person sexually (in Love) their entire life? Not living on an island, living where there are options! I tried, lasted 10 years. I totally relate to Elvis posts.

So, How many of SA members are also ISG members and how many go to Mexico & Colombia? Above 50? Under 500?

Do we do this for the "game" of mongering / searching for friends with benefits or looking for quickie / hookups?

Before Covid I met the "genius" pick up artist / instructors at Real Social Dynamics. They had guys paying in excess of $5,000 to learn the ropes. Hang out in clubs and get laid. (successfully) Additionally there are (well before Covid) lots of Marriage agency tours for around the same amount. (test the merchandise 1st is one of their suggestions) So here we are somewhere in between pay as you go, not free and we want a 10 but settle for an 8 if necessary (and hope she is a non-pro. Am I getting this right?

I head for Tijuana next weekend (covid restrictions permitting) and am looking at all these options. My SA contact list is 60 days old but I notice the girls are still looking at my profile. I will confess something here (since you all don't know me) My mom married for money! I totally understand why. I make no moral judgement on what the girls do to make a living or survive. I just wonder if it's more realistic to accept that relationships are not always perfect and be content with friends with benefits, with a lot of friends!

I have to reconstruct my last months travel lessons and I will post after next week! Hope I make it to MX.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2521326]US women (maybe others) land their man and become fat and lazy and privileged. And expect us to just foot the bill. It's just wrong. I've chosen to stay married but I would be fucking insane if I didn't have my girls.[/QUOTE]Yeah, you are right, Steve, I know it, but I am not 100% when it comes to feeling it, and I like confirmation from others so thanks for confirming it. Thing is that when you feel a certain way, and you all have all of society saying marriage is the thing to do, I just wonder if I may have missed something.

One other thing that may not be BS all the time but I found to be true with my divorce was that divorce is hard on the kids. During the proceedings it is hard but afterwards? Once the divorce was over and the ex was no longer around doing things like forcing religion down his throat, my son thrived. My ex could shame Mother Theresa.

I think most male behavior can be explained by the Coolidge Effect:

The term "Coolidge effect" was first suggested by behavioral endocrinologist Frank A. Beach in 1958. He attributed the neologism to:

An old joke about Calvin Coolidge when he was President. The President and Mrs. Coolidge were being shown separately around an experimental government farm. When Mrs. Coolidge came to the chicken yard she noticed that a rooster was mating very frequently. She asked the attendant how often that happened and was told, "Dozens of times each day. " Mrs. Coolidge said, "Tell that to the President when he comes by. " Upon being told, the President asked, "Same hen every time?" The reply was, "Oh, no, Mr. President, a different hen every time. " President: "Tell that to Mrs. Coolidge."

So when we met a couple weeks ago, during pillow talk, I told Layla that it's hard to be completely into her because of her light kissing and BJ. Well she s no fool. She doesn't want to lose her daddy $$ source. So we plan a new meetup and she says she's going to do a lot better on the BJ. And even tho she's pretty much a pro I think I will treat her better and take her out to a nice restaurant.

At dinner, she orders a salad. There's lots of good stuff on the menu so I'm a bit surprised maybe she's watching her weight. Nope. About halfway in during our chat she says "A girls got to eat light if she's going to suck dick. " LOL. I literally laughed out loud. That's my girl.

Sure enough she totally redeemed herself. BBBJ on my back. BBBJ sitting on end of the bed. BLS. The whole buffet. At one point she goes to pee and asks if I'm ready for what's next and I assume she means fucking and get suited up. She comes out and says "huh? Oh I'm not done with you yet!" And lose the condom and move to the chair for more fun. Eventually we fuck but what a nice ton of leadup. Totally redeemed herself.

I have recently joining the forum and posts like this are completely changing my perception on how I used to imagine these things as just DFF.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2521491]So when we met a couple weeks ago, during pillow talk, I told Layla that it's hard to be completely into her because of her light kissing and BJ. Well she s no fool. She doesn't want to lose her daddy $$ source. So we plan a new meetup and she says she's going to do a lot better on the BJ. And even tho she's pretty much a pro I think I will treat her better and take her out to a nice restaurant.

At dinner, she orders a salad. There's lots of good stuff on the menu so I'm a bit surprised maybe she's watching her weight. Nope. About halfway in during our chat she says "A girls got to eat light if she's going to suck dick. " LOL. I literally laughed out loud. That's my girl.

Sure enough she totally redeemed herself. BBBJ on my back. BBBJ sitting on end of the bed. BLS. The whole buffet. At one point she goes to pee and asks if I'm ready for what's next and I assume she means fucking and get suited up. She comes out and says "huh? Oh I'm not done with you yet!" And lose the condom and move to the chair for more fun. Eventually we fuck but what a nice ton of leadup. Totally redeemed herself.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=CatLover123;2521529]I have recently joining the forum and posts like this are completely changing my perception on how I used to imagine these things as just DFF.[/QUOTE]DFF has quite a few slang meanings. What does DFF stand for in above context?

On this topic I have to agree yes there are a lot of them on SA in Europe where I live.

Had one girl from Helsinki who had everything except sex and intimacy in her marriage. And her husband hated Anal sex so I became the substitution to playing with her butt. Which was her favorite that were not enjoyed for almost 6 years (before I came into the picture.

Another one from London seemed to not be married or in relationship when we talked. But she had kids but were slim and wanted to try Anal sex. So ofc I invited and flew her over for a weekend and turned out she had a ring on her finger and didn't want to talk about it.

Both gave me a bit of a sour after taste because I firmly believe in marriage to stay like a marriage, or be fucking open to your partner what you do.

So nowadays I'm digging harder in their life situation before I offer to fly them to me.

But everyone I met that are married I felt like it's all about recognition for the women. They crave for someone to enjoy their bodies and feel like they are still "in the game" and wanted.

I'm below 50 years of age and look young.

I met many girls on SA that said they could fly to meet me. Man, does this often go well? Anyone else have any experience with this? Given that chemistry is rare, I do not think this would be a good gamble.

[QUOTE=RandomWanderer;2521608]On this topic I have to agree yes there are a lot of them on SA in Europe where I live.

Had one girl from Helsinki who had everything except sex and intimacy in her marriage. And her husband hated Anal sex so I became the substitution to playing with her butt. Which was her favorite that were not enjoyed for almost 6 years (before I came into the picture.

Another one from London seemed to not be married or in relationship when we talked. But she had kids but were slim and wanted to try Anal sex. So ofc I invited and flew her over for a weekend and turned out she had a ring on her finger and didn't want to talk about it.

Both gave me a bit of a sour after taste because I firmly believe in marriage to stay like a marriage, or be fucking open to your partner what you do.

So nowadays I'm digging harder in their life situation before I offer to fly them to me.

But everyone I met that are married I felt like it's all about recognition for the women. They crave for someone to enjoy their bodies and feel like they are still "in the game" and wanted.

I'm below 50 years of age and look young.[/QUOTE]

Do you guys think this is a good idea? In Shanghai, it is quite common for married men to have mistresses, and as part of the deal, the man rents an apartment for their mistress. I am thinking about doing this for my main SB. It's kind of hilarious because I'm an American. So, I might be one of the first Americans to have a kept mistress in China (eh, now that I think of it, I'm sure it's been done thousands of times by foreigners before me).

Here are the financial details: Rent is 6000 RMB (about $900) per month. Her monthly SB allowance is 8000 RMB (about $1200).

I have known her for several months now. She is a super great lay, great body, pretty face, she's about half my age, and she's pretty fun to hang out with too. And I think she genuinely likes me. However, after having been with her for several months now, it is starting to get stale. So, we are proceeding with a 2 month rental for now, to see how it goes.

Right now, my main concerns are that she will meet other men at this apartment, but oh well. And that eventually the neighbors and security guards will know us, and maybe they will call the police. I am an American, and so I will always stand out. We plan on arriving at the apartment separately, but still. And I think she is going to continue living at her regular place, so we are just using this apartment for us to meet, and that too will draw the security guards' and neighbors's attentions, if we are only showing up during the day time.

Any thoughts on any of this? I am also thinking about using this apartment to meet other GFs, SBs, and WGs there, but not sure about this part yet.

BTW, for any of you guys who know my recent history, you will know that I rented an apartment as a place to meet SBs, GFs, and WGs. The amazing part was that there was no lease involved. It was all a cash transaction deal, so there's nothing that officially connects me to this apartment. Even the utility bills are paid for by the landlord. During the first couple of weeks, I was there almost every day shagging someone. But now the security guards, front desk people, and many neighbors know me, and they all give me dirty looks. My main SB refuses to return there, and I am also scared to return there as well, because any of these uptight neighbors could call the police or register a complaint. So, this is why I am thinking about letting my main SB rent a place for us, and in a place that more private.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2521761]I met many girls on SA that said they could fly to meet me. Man, does this often go well? Anyone else have any experience with this? Given that chemistry is rare, I do not think this would be a good gamble.[/QUOTE]Same here. It is incredibly dangerous for the girl. Being in a foreign place by yourself to meet a stranger is insane. Either the girl is desperate (not a good reason to meet) or naive (which presents its own problems.) But if it works for you in your venue, who am I to disagree. The risk to you is very minor besides the cost.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2521768]Do you guys think this is a good idea? In Shanghai, it is quite common for married men to have mistresses, and as part of the deal, the man rents an apartment for their mistress. I am thinking about doing this for my main SB. It's kind of hilarious because I'm an American. So, I might be one of the first Americans to have a kept mistress in China (eh, now that I think of it, I'm sure it's been done thousands of times by foreigners before me).

Here are the financial details: Rent is 6000 RMB (about $900) per month. Her monthly SB allowance is 8000 RMB (about $1200).

I have known her for several months now. She is a super great lay, great body, pretty face, she's about half my age, and she's pretty fun to hang out with too. And I think she genuinely likes me. However, after having been with her for several months now, it is starting to get stale. So, we are proceeding with a 2 month rental for now, to see how it goes.

Right now, my main concerns are that she will meet other men at this apartment, but oh well. And that eventually the neighbors and security guards will know us, and maybe they will call the police. I am an American, and so I will always stand out. We plan on arriving at the apartment separately, but still. And I think she is going to continue living at her regular place, so we are just using this apartment for us to meet, and that too will draw the security guards' and neighbors's attentions, if we are only showing up during the day time..[/QUOTE]You are trading off one problem for another. Your system requires trust among the parties where people have an incentive to report. You said your landlord has several places. Can she recommend or suggest a place with more "privacy?" What would be almost ideal is if you can get a "job" working at this place as either security or maintaince. You don't have to get paid. Just gives you an excuse to be there at any time as long as you don't show up with the girl and are seen entering her apt. If you can get the landlord to introduce you to the staff, it almost guarantees that everyone will be quiet. The other alternative is if there is a sublet market. But in some ways, you have a very good problem compared to the rest of us.

You could also do things to reduce your risks. For example, how you dress says a lot. What if you came with tools and a working mans outfit. You can change later. People may be confused enough not to put the pieces together. They might just think you are doing work there. The girl can be the "interior designer. " The fantasy can add some spice to your sex life if you are sharp.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2521768]letting my main SB rent a place for us, and in a place that more private.[/QUOTE]Is there anything against AirBnB? I think this would fit perfectly for you. You could change places and areas very often, it would amount to about the same monthly fee of 6000 RMB (roughly).

Long term rental is never a good idea because you're pretty easy to find and have a predictable pattern.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2521761]I met many girls on SA that said they could fly to meet me. Man, does this often go well? Anyone else have any experience with this? Given that chemistry is rare, I do not think this would be a good gamble.[/QUOTE]MW,

Let me tell you how that goes. I would do this with women I had met previously. I would buy the ticket and one out of every two times the women would cancel or not come. Three times I had women cancel and claimed to have a sick father (never the mother), and one friend started giving me shit about it. He said every time I bought an airline ticket my state would have a surge of paternal deaths.

So 50% showed up and that was with women I had banged and had a decent relationship with. With a woman you do not know, I cannot see how the percentage would be better.

[QUOTE=NicFrenchy;2521788]Is there anything against AirBnB? I think this would fit perfectly for you. You could change places and areas very often, it would amount to about the same monthly fee of 6000 RMB (roughly).

Long term rental is never a good idea because you're pretty easy to find and have a predictable pattern.[/QUOTE]I gave this serious thought. But most places require ID. And also mobile transfer pay. Both can leave a trail too.

In addition, I heard some Chinese apartment owners have hidden cameras in their units, to make sure tenants aren't stealing stuff.

This rental is only for 2 months for now. I'll see how it goes.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2521819]I gave this serious thought. But most places require ID. And also mobile transfer pay. Both can leave a trail too.

In addition, I heard some Chinese apartment owners have hidden cameras in their units, to make sure tenants aren't stealing stuff.

This rental is only for 2 months for now. I'll see how it goes.[/QUOTE]AirBnB does not allow hidden camera. I know host can still use it but not likely if you use a host with many reviews. I wonder how they would track you if you register in US.

I think you are overthinking this because you are married but people who don't know you do not know that.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2521761]I met many girls on SA that said they could fly to meet me. Man, does this often go well? Anyone else have any experience with this? Given that chemistry is rare, I do not think this would be a good gamble.[/QUOTE]Yeah follow your intuition here. It's not going to work. She's going to need money for ticket etc and you don't know her from Adam. With the three I have flown I've gotten pretty lucky that two out of three didn't screw me over and it was fabulous. But Valentina took me for a $3000 ride and I thought I knew her well (21 hours together which is 2-4 X what I spent with Alexa and Thifany when I flew them). So an unknown? No way.

[QUOTE=Nounce;2521874]AirBnB does not allow hidden camera. I know host can still use it but not likely if you use a host with many reviews. I wonder how they would track you if you register in US.

I think you are overthinking this because you are married but people who don't know you do not know that.[/QUOTE]The last time rented an AirBnB, I had to upload ID to AirBnB. The host doesn't get direct access to your ID according to AirBnB, they just receive third party verification from AirBnB that you are who you say you are. At the time, I believe this requirement was optional by property. Some hosts required it, some didn't. Not sure about now (anybody know?) If it's mandatory or just more widespread now, that would make it quite difficult to rent anonymously, just like a hotel room.

And regarding cameras, the villa I rented overseas about a year ago had a camera on the door (with obvious IR capability), so they could see who's entering the property day or night. I would think there are privacy laws in most advanced countries against spying within the premises, so you're probably safe there. But if you're really paranoid, there are some relatively simple techniques you can use to look for hidden cameras. In general, however, the world has entered a surveillance age and there's no going back. HD cameras are everywhere, and wireless transmission metadata is recorded permanently and allows precise position triangulation. And don't get me started about all those free apps we've all downloaded. It's harder and harder to move about anonymously, if you really need to.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2521790]MW,

Let me tell you how that goes. I would do this with women I had met previously. I would buy the ticket and one out of every two times the women would cancel or not come. Three times I had women cancel and claimed to have a sick father (never the mother), and one friend started giving me shit about it. He said every time I bought an airline ticket my state would have a surge of paternal deaths.

So 50% showed up and that was with women I had banged and had a decent relationship with. With a woman you do not know, I cannot see how the percentage would be better.[/QUOTE]This is so funny. I've tried this only twice, and also batted. 500. The first time was great. On my second attempt (a stunning Thai soft-core porn model), I caused such apparent calamity that I felt like a monster for making the invitation (hospitalization inducing migraines, a job firing, and other personal distress just short of death). Despite that, I'm currently coordinating another out-of-state visit. I'm being a little bit more cautious this time, having spoken on the phone and facetimed with the girl to vet her a bit more. All risk can't be fully eliminated, but that's what makes life interesting I think. The other advantage here is that you can pull from locations that have a more favorable SB / SD ratio and have a better chance of pulling a 9 or 10.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2521768]Do you guys think this is a good idea? In Shanghai, it is quite common for married men to have mistresses, and as part of the deal, the man rents an apartment for their mistress. I am thinking about doing this for my main SB. It's kind of hilarious because I'm an American. So, I might be one of the first Americans to have a kept mistress in China (eh, now that I think of it, I'm sure it's been done thousands of times by foreigners before me).[/QUOTE]What is funny about that is I have no clue how accessible that trail would be to a divorce lawyer because it is China.

Seeing as how your main issue is not leaving a trail. I would set up an account on somewhere like [URL]hotels.com[/URL] and keep it so it cannot be linked to you easily. I would use an encrypted mail service like proton or pay for one. I would use a Visa Vanilla Gift Card to pay for the room. I guess you could do this for Airbnb as well.

Honestly, though, MW, what I learned with my divorce was my cheating was not the big deal I thought it was. I hated that my ex spilled my dirt to the world, but these lawyers have it down. Typically in my state, it is common for an estate to be split 50-50. If the guy has committed fraud against the community, which in my case was spending my own money, then it is not an even split but it goes 55% for the women and 45% for the guy. Now that is before legal expenses. A divorce lawyer told me the goal of lawyers is 6% of the estate so that puts the woman's share down to 52%.

Now my ex said when getting 52% over 50% and dragging me through the mud to get there sounded good to her, and I told her that I had no problem spending all of our assets on lawyers if she pulled that shit and I said 50% of nothing and 52% of nothing are the same damned thing, *****.

My point is that all this running around and hiding was a lot of stress, and it did not matter financially or in court. Once women learn that all their bitching is just going to cost them money, they shut up and settle. I call this divorce method burning down the house and I have had many people thank me for telling them that, and their divorces settled very quickly after they used that technique.

But I would talk to a divorce lawyer about your options and what happens if the wife found out. Society makes it out to be the cheating husband is the most evil SOB on the planet when in fact courts deal with this routinely all the time. What I have found is the wives almost always know you are cheating. They tolerate it because for most getting a divorce would be a step down with life. They just do not want it thrown in their face.

The funniest thing of all time was when a stripper, who knew I was married was giving me head and finished. She and I were talking, and I asked about her boyfriend and she said, "he cheated on me. Can you believe it?" She was oblivious to the hypocrisy. I said, "Oh you poor thing. That is terrible. Can you give me some more head?

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2521912]Yeah follow your intuition here. It's not going to work. She's going to need money for ticket etc and you don't know her from Adam. With the three I have flown I've gotten pretty lucky that two out of three didn't screw me over and it was fabulous. But Valentina took me for a $3000 ride and I thought I knew her well (21 hours together which is 2-4 X what I spent with Alexa and Thifany when I flew them). So an unknown? No way.[/QUOTE]I also tried it a couple of times, I would not recommend it. It can get very expensive quickly and yes they will miss there flight or do something stupid, that cost will cost extra money and time. My advice pick a great destination and make it your home base. You can build a nice stable of girls and rotate them, but that does get expensive in the states. Mexico, Europe and Russia much cheaper.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2521986]What is funny about that is I have no clue how accessible that trail would be to a divorce lawyer because it is China.[/QUOTE]Elvis, all payments or transfers can be done electronically by app in China. You can use it to pay for street vendors, prostitutes, tips and everything else. It's universally accepted while credit card is not. I guess you heard about Ant Financial, that is what they do. This is what FB trying to duplicate in US for many years now.

Extra marital affair is illegal in China, P4 P is also illegal. I think those are MW's main concerns, not the divorce. Communist party is integrated into China's society. It is required in large companies so they know each move of these companies. We pay HOA due to HOA in US. My friend told me they pay to a Communist party neighborhood association. MW may get into trouble if someone reports him to the party/police. China may shame you in public if you are caught. China has clamped down hard on P4 P in recent years. That is another reason that makes him worry.

[QUOTE=Nounce;2522059]Elvis, all payments or transfers can be done electronically by app in China. You can use it to pay for street vendors, prostitutes, tips and everything else. It's universally accepted while credit card is not. I guess you heard about Ant Financial, that is what they do. This is what FB trying to duplicate in US for many years now.

Extra marital affair is illegal in China, P4 P is also illegal. I think those are MW's main concerns, not the divorce. Communist party is integrated into China's society. It is required in large companies so they know each move of these companies. We pay HOA due to HOA in US. My friend told me they pay to a Communist party neighborhood association. MW may get into trouble if someone reports him to the party/police. China may shame you in public if you are caught. China has clamped down hard on P4 P in recent years. That is another reason that makes him worry.[/QUOTE]A mistress is not an uncommon thing. How are the men weighing the risk / reward ratio?

[QUOTE=Nounce;2522059]

Extra marital affair is illegal in China, P4 P is also illegal. I think those are MW's main concerns, not the divorce. Communist party is integrated into China's society. It is required in large companies so they know each move of these companies. We pay HOA due to HOA in US. My friend told me they pay to a Communist party neighborhood association. MW may get into trouble if someone reports him to the party/police. China may shame you in public if you are caught. China has clamped down hard on P4 P in recent years. That is another reason that makes him worry.[/QUOTE]BINGO!! This is so accurate, and this is exactly all the stuff that I am worried about.

To everyone that weighed in on this, I really appreciate it.

Here's an update. Today, my SB found a place. Lo and behold, she did rent the place on a Chinese version of AirBnB. She never met a real estate agent. She just went to a website, found a few places and went to check them out. The different apartment owners gave her the building code and the room code, so that she could check out the rooms by herself. If she takes a pass, then the owner just changes the room code remotely. She found a place, and she went ahead and rented it for two months, and she paid by transferring the rent via mobile pay. I showed up 40 minutes later. Big compound, so I don't think anyone gave me a second look. Security guard was sitting on the curb, smoking a cigarette. I waltz by him, and used the building code to let myself into the building. Each building is at least 30 floors, so hopefully I can remain anonymous in this place. (One other bad thing about my original apartment is that I could not buzz people in, and the building had no entrance keypad, so I always had to go down and walk the girls into the building with me.) With this new place, my SB and I agreed to enter the compound, building, and room, separately.

Anyway, fingers crossed that this will work out. Maybe I am being greedy, but I am hoping that I can use this place to meet other girls. After all, I can share the building code with anyone. Once they reach my floor, I will just open the room door for them.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2521986]What is funny about that is I have no clue how accessible that trail would be to a divorce lawyer because it is China.

Seeing as how your main issue is not leaving a trail. I would set up an account on somewhere like [URL]hotels.com[/URL] and keep it so it cannot be linked to you easily. I would use an encrypted mail service like proton or pay for one. I would use a Visa Vanilla Gift Card to pay for the room. I guess you could do this for Airbnb as well.

Honestly, though, MW, what I learned with my divorce was my cheating was not the big deal I thought it was. I hated that my ex spilled my dirt to the world, but these lawyers have it down. Typically in my state, it is common for an estate to be split 50-50. If the guy has committed fraud against the community, which in my case was spending my own money, then it is not an even split but it goes 55% for the women and 45% for the guy. Now that is before legal expenses. A divorce lawyer told me the goal of lawyers is 6% of the estate so that puts the woman's share down to 52%.

Now my ex said when getting 52% over 50% and dragging me through the mud to get there sounded good to her, and I told her that I had no problem spending all of our assets on lawyers if she pulled that shit and I said 50% of nothing and 52% of nothing are the same damned thing, *****.[/QUOTE]So true, many of my rich clients in Houston, lived 2 separate lives. They were only married on paper. Whatever works, but you are correct about the step down, many are willing to put up with a lot to keep the rich lifestyle.

I have a great business now and small apartment. I am way more happy now then when I had a big House and a bunch or crap. I am banging Hot Chicks in Mexico and Russia, I could not ask for much more. Plus I am out of Houston, makes life even better.

[QUOTE=Akibono;2522098]A mistress is not an uncommon thing. How are the men weighing the risk / reward ratio?[/QUOTE]In China, having a mistress is pretty common if you are at least upper middle class. I have been teased, by my Chinese friends, more than once for not having a mistress. They say it means that I'm poor. A few weeks ago, a good female friend of mine also teased me about the same thing! Several women have also told me that they were a mistress, or used to be a mistress. A woman in my complex lived alone with a child. Someone asked her about the husband, and she said she was someone's mistress and they have a love child, and the father is paying for their apartment and living expenses. This is how common it is to have a mistress in China. So, I guess men view the risk to be low. For me, I'm a foreigner and I cannot speak Chinese. So, it makes having a semi-open affair to be both difficult and risky.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2522321]In China, having a mistress is pretty common if you are at least upper middle class. I have been teased, by my Chinese friends, more than once for not having a mistress. They say it means that I'm poor. A few weeks ago, a good female friend of mine also teased me about the same thing! Several women have also told me that they were a mistress, or used to be a mistress. A woman in my complex lived alone with a child. Someone asked her about the husband, and she said she was someone's mistress and they have a love child, and the father is paying for their apartment and living expenses. This is how common it is to have a mistress in China. So, I guess men view the risk to be low. For me, I'm a foreigner and I cannot speak Chinese. So, it makes having a semi-open affair to be both difficult and risky.[/QUOTE]Wasn't it Mao who enacted a one mistress policy?

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2522321]In China, having a mistress is pretty common if you are at least upper middle class. I have been teased, by my Chinese friends, more than once for not having a mistress. They say it means that I'm poor. A few weeks ago, a good female friend of mine also teased me about the same thing! Several women have also told me that they were a mistress, or used to be a mistress. A woman in my complex lived alone with a child. Someone asked her about the husband, and she said she was someone's mistress and they have a love child, and the father is paying for their apartment and living expenses. This is how common it is to have a mistress in China. So, I guess men view the risk to be low. For me, I'm a foreigner and I cannot speak Chinese. So, it makes having a semi-open affair to be both difficult and risky.[/QUOTE]
It was a crime in most East Asian countries long ago but several countries have decriminalized it. I don't know China's law so I don't know the legality of it. But in other Chinese countries, many tycoons have multiple wives. It became public when the man died and the children were fighting for inheritance.

[QUOTE=CarloRogue;2521960]This is so funny. I've tried this only twice, and also batted. 500. The first time was great. On my second attempt (a stunning Thai soft-core porn model), I caused such apparent calamity that I felt like a monster for making the invitation (hospitalization inducing migraines, a job firing, and other personal distress just short of death). Despite that, I'm currently coordinating another out-of-state visit. I'm being a little bit more cautious this time, having spoken on the phone and facetimed with the girl to vet her a bit more. All risk can't be fully eliminated, but that's what makes life interesting I think. The other advantage here is that you can pull from locations that have a more favorable SB / SD ratio and have a better chance of pulling a 9 or 10.[/QUOTE]Instead of flying the SB to you for the first date, why not fly to her? But I would only do this if she lives in a place that I would want to visit and explore. My friend lived in a place where SB supply was limited, and so he checked out cities that he always wanted to visit. The first trip, he hit if off with the SB and he had a blast. The second time, the SB flaked on him. So, he scrambled to find other dates on SA, but wasn't that successful. But at least he got to explore the city and so it wasn't a complete waste of money. He said that he would do this again, but next time he'd set up a bunch of dates first, instead of just zeroing in on one.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2523026]Instead of flying the SB to you for the first date, why not fly to her? But I would only do this if she lives in a place that I would want to visit and explore. My friend lived in a place where SB supply was limited, and so he checked out cities that he always wanted to visit. The first trip, he hit if off with the SB and he had a blast. The second time, the SB flaked on him. So, he scrambled to find other dates on SA, but wasn't that successful. But at least he got to explore the city and so it wasn't a complete waste of money. He said that he would do this again, but next time he'd set up a bunch of dates first, instead of just zeroing in on one.[/QUOTE]That's definitely something I plan to do more of, post-covid era, particularly some non-domestic destinations, where the pickings seem much riper, as I have found and others have reported in this thread. I travel a lot for work, mostly within the states, and have had some success on SA in second-tier cities, but struck out badly in the big cities like LA, San Fran, Denver, and Chicago. In particular, my flake percentage was a perfect 100% in LA despite many many attempts. But I'm an analyst and I think I see my errors and know how to tweak the formula to improve results. I've had the same pattern of results between developed and less developed countries on SA, the latter being much more fruitful, which just seems to make basic sense.

There was a posting a couple years back showing the cities with the highest (and lowest) ratios of SB's to SD's. Not at my fingertips at the moment. I'd love to hear everyone else's favorite sugar destinations, foreign or domestic. I'm also interested in local culture, food, architecture, art, and other travel interests, so a city with both features is ideal for me.

[QUOTE=CarloRogue;2523132]That's definitely something I plan to do more of, post-covid era, particularly some non-domestic destinations, where the pickings seem much riper, as I have found and others have reported in this thread. I travel a lot for work, mostly within the states, and have had some success on SA in second-tier cities, but struck out badly in the big cities like LA, San Fran, Denver, and Chicago. In particular, my flake percentage was a perfect 100% in LA despite many many attempts. But I'm an analyst and I think I see my errors and know how to tweak the formula to improve results. I've had the same pattern of results between developed and less developed countries on SA, the latter being much more fruitful, which just seems to make basic sense.

There was a posting a couple years back showing the cities with the highest (and lowest) ratios of SB's to SD's. Not at my fingertips at the moment. I'd love to hear everyone else's favorite sugar destinations, foreign or domestic. I'm also interested in local culture, food, architecture, art, and other travel interests, so a city with both features is ideal for me.[/QUOTE]I kind had the same experience. Houston was crazy with fake profiles, and girls being addicted to Drugs or Alsohol. I finally met up with a real hot one, but very expensive. I though Austin would be much easier, but was much harder and way more expensive. Before the Covid, I was having great luck in San Antonio, who would have thought. Honestly I putting all my efforts into MTY now, maybe I will start back in S. Ant, but too busy at work,(too much driving also, not productive) I will just stick with MTY. Time will tell. Good luck.

[QUOTE=CarloRogue;2523132]That's definitely something I plan to do more of, post-covid era, particularly some non-domestic destinations, where the pickings seem much riper, as I have found and others have reported in this thread. I travel a lot for work, mostly within the states, and have had some success on SA in second-tier cities, but struck out badly in the big cities like LA, San Fran, Denver, and Chicago. In particular, my flake percentage was a perfect 100% in LA despite many many attempts. But I'm an analyst and I think I see my errors and know how to tweak the formula to improve results. I've had the same pattern of results between developed and less developed countries on SA, the latter being much more fruitful, which just seems to make basic sense.

There was a posting a couple years back showing the cities with the highest (and lowest) ratios of SB's to SD's. Not at my fingertips at the moment. I'd love to hear everyone else's favorite sugar destinations, foreign or domestic. I'm also interested in local culture, food, architecture, art, and other travel interests, so a city with both features is ideal for me.[/QUOTE]Yeah definitely SA can be great if you are flying in. PreCovid that was my only thing and it works great. However make sure you are taking advantage of last minute hookups. Some of these babes don't plan more than a day in advance.

My second experience ever was LA and I lined up weeks in advance this one girl I was smitten with. She was a first timer and we had an AMAZING date including a bunch of making out. But she freaked over me being married. So we didn't seal the deal and day 2 I was left high and dry. I started seeking like mad. Had one girl flake on the way to dinner. Undeterred I hit it hard and got a date for later that night. Straight to room. Same thing next night different girl. Straight to room.

In London when I needed something quickly I used the Nanpa approach "I'm going dancing in Soho tonight. Join me. " And the response rate was off the charts. Ended up snagging one of my faves that way.

So yeah I can do a bunch of planning and have a flake (hasn't happened often to me) but there are girls ready to meet up that night. Especially if you take a strong frame like the "I'm doing this. Join me. " Approach.

It’s funny but still in this day and age girls want to be led with a strong frame. They are waiting for u to ask — better yet TELL them what’s going to happen. Even the pros are this way. I don’t understand why there aren’t girls on SA like “I’m going on a date tonight. Who’s going with me?” Even the pros are waiting for u to ask. LOL.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2523026]Instead of flying the SB to you for the first date, why not fly to her? But I would only do this if she lives in a place that I would want to visit and explore. My friend lived in a place where SB supply was limited, and so he checked out cities that he always wanted to visit. The first trip, he hit if off with the SB and he had a blast. The second time, the SB flaked on him. So, he scrambled to find other dates on SA, but wasn't that successful. But at least he got to explore the city and so it wasn't a complete waste of money. He said that he would do this again, but next time he'd set up a bunch of dates first, instead of just zeroing in on one.[/QUOTE]Agree fly to her and set up some additional meeting with other girls, but I think you are better off focusing on one city, even if it takes a little more work. In the long run the Hard Work will pay off.

Portland, Milwaukee, Cleveland, Buffalo, Kansas City, Nashville, St. Louis,. My experiences in 2nd tier cities ranged from good to great.

LOS Angeles, Chicago, NYC, Boston, Seattle,. These cities were so tough, that I quit quickly. Only exception is SF, which is tough, but that was my home base for many years, so I grinded it out in SF.

So, I agree that 2nd tier cities seem to offer better chances, but why? My guess is that there are not a lot of rich SDs in these cities, and also the market is stale, so if I am the new guy in town, then I am popular while I am in that town. There's probably other reasons for the difference too.

BTW, this is all from a traveler's perspective. I bet if I lived in any of these 2nd tier cities, I would say the local SA market totally sux. For example, whenever I returned to a 2nd tier city and checked out SA, I noticed that is was almost 90% the same old profiles! And in each of these cities, the number of active profiles were usually fewer than a hundred. (To me, "active" means that they last logged into SA within the past week or two.).

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2523318]Portland, Milwaukee, Cleveland, Buffalo, Kansas City, Nashville, St. Louis,. My experiences in 2nd tier cities ranged from good to great.

LOS Angeles, Chicago, NYC, Boston, Seattle,. These cities were so tough, that I quit quickly. Only exception is SF, which is tough, but that was my home base for many years, so I grinded it out in SF.

So, I agree that 2nd tier cities seem to offer better chances, but why? My guess is that there are not a lot of rich SDs in these cities, and also the market is stale, so if I am the new guy in town, then I am popular while I am in that town. There's probably other reasons for the difference too.[/QUOTE]MW,

I think it has to deal with how many rich SDs there are, living expenses, and the morals of a given region. Most women only turn to being a SB out of recommendations from their friends or desperation IMO.

In my area, the women from SA want so much I do not even bother.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2523318]Portland, Milwaukee, Cleveland, Buffalo, Kansas City, Nashville, St. Louis,. My experiences in 2nd tier cities ranged from good to great.

LOS Angeles, Chicago, NYC, Boston, Seattle,. These cities were so tough, that I quit quickly. Only exception is SF, which is tough, but that was my home base for many years, so I grinded it out in SF.

So, I agree that 2nd tier cities seem to offer better chances, but why? My guess is that there are not a lot of rich SDs in these cities, and also the market is stale, so if I am the new guy in town, then I am popular while I am in that town. There's probably other reasons for the difference too.

BTW, this is all from a traveler's perspective. I bet if I lived in any of these 2nd tier cities, I would say the local SA market totally sux. For example, whenever I returned to a 2nd tier city and checked out SA, I noticed that is was almost 90% the same old profiles! And in each of these cities, the number of active profiles were usually fewer than a hundred. (To me, "active" means that they last logged into SA within the past week or two.).[/QUOTE]Just want to say YMMV. Las Vegas 3 for 3. NYC 3 for 4. Miami 1 for 1. All 8's and up. All but one we hooked up on SA weeks in advance. So maybe I just had a lucky 2019. But the big cities been berry berry good to me.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2523318]Portland, Milwaukee, Cleveland, Buffalo, Kansas City, Nashville, St. Louis,. My experiences in 2nd tier cities ranged from good to great.

LOS Angeles, Chicago, NYC, Boston, Seattle,. These cities were so tough, that I quit quickly. Only exception is SF, which is tough, but that was my home base for many years, so I grinded it out in SF.

So, I agree that 2nd tier cities seem to offer better chances, but why? My guess is that there are not a lot of rich SDs in these cities, and also the market is stale, so if I am the new guy in town, then I am popular while I am in that town. There's probably other reasons for the difference too.

BTW, this is all from a traveler's perspective. I bet if I lived in any of these 2nd tier cities, I would say the local SA market totally sux. For example, whenever I returned to a 2nd tier city and checked out SA, I noticed that is was almost 90% the same old profiles! And in each of these cities, the number of active profiles were usually fewer than a hundred. (To me, "active" means that they last logged into SA within the past week or two.).[/QUOTE]Midwestern you know your shit. Amazing post. You need to organize a trip to the top 3 destinations, we could get a group of guys together and have a blast. Moscow is number one for me, maybe Sau Paulo and one other destination. I can not travel over the summer, because to busy at work, but after Thanksgiving, until Feb, I have a lot of free time.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2523318]Portland, Milwaukee, Cleveland, Buffalo, Kansas City, Nashville, St. Louis,. My experiences in 2nd tier cities ranged from good to great.

LOS Angeles, Chicago, NYC, Boston, Seattle,. These cities were so tough, that I quit quickly. Only exception is SF, which is tough, but that was my home base for many years, so I grinded it out in SF.

So, I agree that 2nd tier cities seem to offer better chances, but why? My guess is that there are not a lot of rich SDs in these cities, and also the market is stale, so if I am the new guy in town, then I am popular while I am in that town. There's probably other reasons for the difference too.

BTW, this is all from a traveler's perspective. I bet if I lived in any of these 2nd tier cities, I would say the local SA market totally sux. For example, whenever I returned to a 2nd tier city and checked out SA, I noticed that is was almost 90% the same old profiles! And in each of these cities, the number of active profiles were usually fewer than a hundred. (To me, "active" means that they last logged into SA within the past week or two.).[/QUOTE]Just found this on SA. Top colleges for SB's: [URL]https://www.seeking.com/p/sugar-baby-university-2021/usa/[/URL].

Notable that there is not a single California university on the list, while Southern New Hampshire Univ. Somehow makes the top 15. Also reinforces why Phoenix has been my best travel city to date.

I had a little pressure for people telling me to look in the USA and quit going abroad for women. I like making decisions based on facts and numbers, and I really did not have them until I read this book: [URL]https://*******.com/y294szrc[/URL].

The Book of Numbers: Analyzing the ROI on the Pursuit of Women.

So basically in this book, the first part was looking at wife material so he excluded the obese, single moms, women with herpes, huge debt, financial irresponsible women ETC. He totals it up and he got 2% or one in 50 women.

Then he asked what were the chances that a woman would go out with an average Joe with an average income. Are you ready? It was one in 200 or 0. 5%.

And even if you got that women to go out with you and you were married, your odds are 4 X greater of getting a divorce than being in a happy marriage. Happy marriages are one in 8 but really what we think of as ideal marriages are really closer to 2% or one in 50.

The average guy over his life time will spend $260,000 in the pursuit of, maintenance of, and disposal of women. The author correctly points out had those same guys put the money in the market they would have $10 million.

This is my point: So why is marriage being rammed down our throats? Because it is the most common way by far for women to achieve wealth. In fact, if you look at all the emotional hurt as the author points out, you really are working your whole life for a woman.

The author linked to another book I found interesting called the unplugged Alpha, the no bullshit guide to winning with women. [URL]https://*******.com/y49m4p22[/URL].

This guy has a you tube channel and much of the same ideas are found there that was in the book: [URL]https://www.youtube.com/c/EntrepreneursInCars/featured[/URL].

I have learned a lot from his book and the videos. What he says though and it is backed up by studies is that 80% of the women only will swipe right on only the top 20% of guys.

For people going abroad, this video is important, [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDx_zJAPshs[/URL] it shows what hypergamy is, a woman will always look to swing up. It is in their nature. He looks at a hot woman dating an overweight guy and predicts they will break up based on the Instagram page. She is taking more pictures of herself and fewer and fewer of him. The point with us is that if you think that sweet foreigner is going to stay sweet if she is in America for a while, you are kidding yourself.

I am going to expand on this post though. There is a lot to here. I like the phrase "Chase excellence not women" but I do not like the phrase "Do the work. " because it sounds like men have not been doing anything.

There were things I did not like about both books. In book one, the guy says that should men should not get discouraged and seek out a mistress. Instead he should date loads and loads of women and then he ups his chances for a good union. Uh why? Given the horrific failure rate with marriage, why would you want to keep with that model? Maybe men should take a page from women and look at surrogates if they want to have children and a family. You pick a woman's eggs and not all the drama that goes with it. Pay other people to raise your kid. In many cases, it is a shitload cheaper than a wife, and the kids are 100% yours. Hell, I think kids would thrive in a climate where there is no mommy-daddy drama.

In the second book and follow up videos, the author says if a guy is not a 8 in terms of looks or wealth, he should work up to being an 8 because he is going to get hurt. At least he says it is okay to "spin plates" and see multiple women before finding a girlfriend.

For the longest time I have wondered why attractive men think they own attractive women and why the American media studios emphasize it and this is it. The problem with it is that there is nothing about character, personality, and maybe a little about being a provider. I read this and it really is saying that ALL women are shallow working girls.

So sure you should pursue excellence. You should try to get into shape but it is not a zero sum game. Time at the mall picking out clothes is time you could be earning money. So for the guy who says I am going to put money into clothes so I look great, I laugh and say, "And I am going to put money into women and do better than you. " Paying for clothes is an illusion that the woman is with you for you and not your money.

There is a show called the hotter half on Netflix which measures the percentage of women who would date a guy, and I have never seen a guy move from a low score into the top 20%. I have seen a guy move looks wise from a 6 to an 8 or 2 to a 5 but a 2 to a 10? Never.

On the other hand, I think if you do the work money wise it is much more likely to pay off.

I think a much better strategy is for American guys to go to a country where they are at least 8's financially? What do you all think?

For me, I felt like I had to justify being happier with multiple SBs rather than a wife or GF. Now after looking at all this, I realize I am not missing anything.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2523318]Portland, Milwaukee, Cleveland, Buffalo, Kansas City, Nashville, St. Louis,. My experiences in 2nd tier cities ranged from good to great.

LOS Angeles, Chicago, NYC, Boston, Seattle,. These cities were so tough, that I quit quickly. Only exception is SF, which is tough, but that was my home base for many years, so I grinded it out in SF.

So, I agree that 2nd tier cities seem to offer better chances, but why? My guess is that there are not a lot of rich SDs in these cities, and also the market is stale, so if I am the new guy in town, then I am popular while I am in that town. There's probably other reasons for the difference too.

BTW, this is all from a traveler's perspective. I bet if I lived in any of these 2nd tier cities, I would say the local SA market totally sux. For example, whenever I returned to a 2nd tier city and checked out SA, I noticed that is was almost 90% the same old profiles! And in each of these cities, the number of active profiles were usually fewer than a hundred. (To me, "active" means that they last logged into SA within the past week or two.).[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2523334]MW,

I think it has to deal with how many rich SDs there are, living expenses, and the morals of a given region.[/QUOTE]Totally agree. For example, not too many rich SDs in Portland, but plenty of hippie chicks.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2523346]Just want to say YMMV. Las Vegas 3 for 3. NYC 3 for 4. Miami 1 for 1. All 8's and up. All but one we hooked up on SA weeks in advance. So maybe I just had a lucky 2019. But the big cities been berry berry good to me.[/QUOTE]I agree that Las Vegas is very good! But I have found that super cheezy touristy cities to be good in general. Niagara Falls is another example where SA is very good. No offense to anyone from these places. I actually like LV.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2523348]Midwestern you know your shit. Amazing post. You need to organize a trip to the top 3 destinations, we could get a group of guys together and have a blast. Moscow is number one for me, maybe Sau Paulo and one other destination. I can not travel over the summer, because to busy at work, but after Thanksgiving, until Feb, I have a lot of free time.[/QUOTE]LOL, I don't know if you're kidding or not. But I think a large part of it is that these small cities have almost no turnover in terms of both SDs and SBs, and so the SBs get excited when a new guy comes to town. This is why I put in the "traveler's point of view" caveat. I am sure that the SA market in small cities suck for locals.

[QUOTE=CarloRogue;2523547]Just found this on SA. Top colleges for SB's: [URL]https://www.seeking.com/p/sugar-baby-university-2021/usa/[/URL].

Notable that there is not a single California university on the list, while Southern New Hampshire Univ. Somehow makes the top 15. Also reinforces why Phoenix has been my best travel city to date.[/QUOTE]I met a bunch of Berkeley SBs when I was living and working in SF. Eventually, I just decided that college students were too young for me. (1) We had almost NOTHING in common, so it was always awkward hanging out with them. (2) They are SUPER busy, and so the flake ratio was very high. (3) And they often treated me like a client, which is not surprising given the age difference. Finally, I got some drama from one of them, probably because she was only 21 or 22. So, I finally decided that 24 was the minimum SB age for me.

The funny thing is that one of the reasons why SA began was so SDs could date college students that needed some extra spending money. But do you any of you guys (especially if you are over 50) still date these college girls?

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2523651]I
This is my point: So why is marriage being rammed down our throats? Because it is the most common way by far for women to achieve wealth. In fact, if you look at all the emotional hurt as the author points out, you really are working your whole life for a woman.

I think a much better strategy is for American guys to go to a country where they are at least 8's financially? What do you all think?

For me, I felt like I had to justify being happier with multiple SBs rather than a wife or GF. Now after looking at all this, I realize I am not missing anything.[/QUOTE]Here's my 2 cents.

For a young guy, the main reason to get married is to have a loving and supportive partner, because when men are young, we tend to be immature, and also super stressed out, as we are working on our careers.

For the older guy, the only reason to get married is if you want to have kids and you want your kids to have a mother.

Otherwise, there is no reason to get married. That's just my opinion, of course.

[QUOTE=CarloRogue;2523547]Just found this on SA. Top colleges for SB's: [URL]https://www.seeking.com/p/sugar-baby-university-2021/usa/[/URL].

Notable that there is not a single California university on the list, while Southern New Hampshire Univ. Somehow makes the top 15. Also reinforces why Phoenix has been my best travel city to date.[/QUOTE]SNHU pivoted to primarily online before it became fashionable. So that makes sense. They have students all over the US.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2523688]The funny thing is that one of the reasons why SA began was so SDs could date college students that needed some extra spending money. But do you any of you guys (especially if you are over 50) still date these college girls?[/QUOTE]LOL. Not in the USA. Honestly, it is the feminist crap, women like to say there are more women in college than men, but do you know what their degrees are in? To me, those women are just avoiding the work place. I would not have gone to college if it did not mean more money and with most of these women and especially today, it means just that. They are happy taking out loans, getting into debt, and not having to deal with it in college, but honestly, they would have been better off not going to college at all. Many of the college women today are just flat out nuts.

There was a strip club line in the 90's where women would say when you tipped them, it helped out with their medical school or law school expenses. You would ask these women about what classes they were taking, and they would go blank.

In Colombia, there is some but not as much credit as in the USA, and the women I have met are not in the liberal arts programs but ones where you can actually make an income. When I talked about the subjects they were studying, they all showed me how much they knew about it. An uber drive from NJ told me that Colombian schools are just as hard if not harder than those in the USA.

I may get beat up for saying this but given the rate of obesity in the USA, a woman would do a lot better emphasizing beauty over some if not most types of education.

South Florida isn't bad, but they all want stupid money.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2523707]SNHU pivoted to primarily online before it became fashionable. So that makes sense. They have students all over the US.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2523731]LOL. Not in the USA. Honestly, it is the feminist crap, women like to say there are more women in college than men, but do you know what their degrees are in? To me, those women are just avoiding the work place. I would not have gone to college if it did not mean more money and with most of these women and especially today, it means just that. They are happy taking out loans, getting into debt, and not having to deal with it in college, but honestly, they would have been better off not going to college at all. Many of the college women today are just flat out nuts.

There was a strip club line in the 90's where women would say when you tipped them, it helped out with their medical school or law school expenses. You would ask these women about what classes they were taking, and they would go blank..[/QUOTE]Elvis,

Normally I agree with almost everything you say. Yes, American women need to focus more in the there looks and Heath. They are so busy trying to complete with men's they are losing there femininity, especially comparing them to women in Europe, Russia and Latin America. Honestly there is real no comparison any more, I am not attracted to American anymore, usually they just piss me off in life. I tolerate the women In my family and my female clients abs that about all for me.

As far as Colombia, girls. All my experience was in MDE and I was not impressed at all. Very jealous, insecure, lazy, real bad attitudes and dumb. The once I have met in America and Mexico are even worse. I was not using SA when I was in MDE and I was on a budget, so that would obviously change things. Now if a Colombian chick contacts me in MTY I block them immediately.

I know Bogota is much better. The girls seem to be harder working and smarter. From my experience in MDE, I would say schools are much easier then in the states, also 90% of the girls I was meeting in MDE would never make in the states, just to lazy.

Mad respect, You and others Guys on this page have major game. Just got back from MTY great trip and ended with an incredible girl that spent the night last night. The first night she did nit ask for money, but we did not have sex. She met me at the restaurant Tuesday evening and when she walked in all the staff was amazed by her beauty. They were telling me how hot she is. Living the dream, I will post a detailed report tomorrow.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2524030]
Just got back from MTY great trip and ended with an incredible girl that spent the night last night. The first night she did nit ask for money, but we did not have sex. She met me at the restaurant Tuesday evening and when she walked in all the staff was amazed by her beauty. They were telling me how hot she is. Living the dream, I will post a detailed report tomorrow.[/QUOTE]Awesome! Looking forward to the report!

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2523695]Here's my 2 cents.

For a young guy, the main reason to get married is to have a loving and supportive partner, because when men are young, we tend to be immature, and also super stressed out, as we are working on our careers.

For the older guy, the only reason to get married is if you want to have kids and you want your kids to have a mother.

Otherwise, there is no reason to get married. That's just my opinion, of course.[/QUOTE]MW,

I have a very smart wealthy, and single friend who had the daughter of his ex refuse to want to go stay with her mother. I think she was around 15 at the time. He looked into things and instead of adopting her, he told her to be an emancipated minor who chose to stay with him. He then adopted her when she was an adult and was really happy to do so. It is funny how the state looks so differently at that than as if he adopted her. No CPS and all that shit.

I have been thinking about the idea of surrogate fatherhood as an idea and not for me. Women are now getting pregnant with the sperm of men. I wonder if men should look at doing the same with the over and uterus. I do not know your experience with this but the way women are with their children, I just do not know. I had a father who used me a bit as an accessory to his status, and I did not like it. I think a lot of mothers put pressure on their children as a reflection on them. Do you have any thoughts on the surrogate idea?

During my divorce, my ex was furious at my son. She called me all kind of names and insisted he hate me as much as she did which was pretty much a terrible form of abuse. He would wince like an abused dog waiting to be hit if I mentioned his mother so I said very little about her when we were together during and after the divorce period. I could not believe how happy and better he did when we got divorced. Five years later, he was even valedictorian of his class.

It seems like the two times women are excused for being crazy psycho bitches is when they are going through a divorce and early on raising children. I am just wondering if men would be better off having sugar babies, surrogate mothers, and nannies than wives. It would probably be cheaper.

A family member of mine who just had kids said, "I love my kids, but I hate my wife", and it broke my heart. I wonder how many other guys feel the same way.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2524030]

I know Bogota is much better. The girls seem to be harder working and smarter. From my experience in MDE, I would say schools are much easier then in the states, also 90% of the girls I was meeting in MDE would never make in the states, just to lazy.

[/QUOTE]Disappointed with SA in Bogota. Really low response rate, girls are too flaky. Low quality photos, usually only 1 or 2 shitty selfies. Even after we exchange numbers and move to WhatsApp it does not go any further, most of them just vanish. Don't they need my money?) Go figure.

[QUOTE=MiamiBoy1;2525294]Disappointed with SA in Bogota. Really low response rate, girls are too flaky. Low quality photos, usually only 1 or 2 shitty selfies. Even after we exchange numbers and move to WhatsApp it does not go any further, most of them just vanish. Don't they need my money?) Go figure.[/QUOTE]Great report, I do not have any experience in Bogota, so no comment. Let's just say I was not impressed with MDE at all. Not a good for me, honestly I did not like anything about MDE, besides natural beauty of the city. Mexico and Russia are so much better for me. Good luck.

[QUOTE=MiamiBoy1;2525294]Disappointed with SA in Bogota. Really low response rate, girls are too flaky. Low quality photos, usually only 1 or 2 shitty selfies. Even after we exchange numbers and move to WhatsApp it does not go any further, most of them just vanish. Don't they need my money?) Go figure.[/QUOTE]I wasn't there very long, but had a similar experience. I chalked it up to bad luck at the time, but perhaps not. I have detected a larger pattern in my travels that destinations with a legal P4 P scene tend to have much less quality and quantity on SA. Of course, queue up the anecdotal reports to the contrary, YMMV, and yada yada yada. But for me, SA just isn't as enticing or worth the effort when I'm lounging in an FKK spa in Germany, feasting on Thai in London, or sampling Latin American fare in Spain & Portugal.

This website is not worth it any more. Several reasons:

Price went up to 99 a month for men starting January 25th.

Many women from Craigslist, who were simply prostitute escorts, have moved in. They want a quick buck at their convenience, their timing, location, etc. They are not willing to meet at a restaurant and explore a LTR.

Many women, especially the younger ones, expect to get money or a gift prior to meeting in person.

Many women use text technology and will not answer a phone to converse prior to expecting to meet. Fewer of these women will show up.

Many are trying to sell videos or photos of themselves. Some argue that because of Covid they want an "online" arrangement. This means you pay them money to see their photos or videos. Not actual meetings.

Many are using fake names, fake photos, face photos which do not reveal their huge butts or other obesity.

[QUOTE=NeilGeorge;2525443]
Many women use text technology and will not answer a phone to converse prior to expecting to meet. Fewer of these women will show up.

Many are using fake names, fake photos, face photos which do not reveal their huge butts or other obesity.[/QUOTE]Heck, they don't even text back. Messages marked unread. Or respond few days later, when I no longer care to respond. This is very surprising considering there is a curfew and a weekend lockdown when everything is shut down. I thought online platforms like SA, FB and Tinder would outperform, because many casas, strip clubs, etc are closed.

And yes, if no full body / height pictures are posted, 99% she is fat as fuck.

And those 2%-3% hot ones either won't respond, simply because your message is lost among hundreds and thousands others, or they will quote $300+.
t''

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2525307]Great report, I do not have any experience in Bogota, so no comment. Let's just say I was not impressed with MDE at all. Not a good for me, honestly I did not like anything about MDE, besides natural beauty of the city. Mexico and Russia are so much better for me. Good luck.[/QUOTE]Tinder works great in Russia, especially in 2nd tier cities. I had positive experience with SA in CDMX.

I know Neil is throwing much of SA under the bus below and I can't disagree with the "most" statements. Yep there are 9 scammers or cammers for every one real girl. And by the time you get to a real girl that will meetup and have sex with you, you are 1 in 100 or so I suppose. But the gems are so worth it!

I was fortunate to have a ton of gems in 2019 pre-Covid. But honestly two of my girls this year have been gems. And even tho I've had more in person fails by far working here locally than when traveling, the two have been totally worth it.

Sarah was brief think we met five times. But bareback, most passionate sex of my life. Introducing her to CIM and 69. This shit is priceless. Totally worth the price of admission.

Layla. At the other end of the spectrum is semi-Pro Layla. But it's been such a wild ride with her getting to where we are. To say her life is complex is an understatement. And she was so limited and guarded sexually at first. Now that she is comfortable enough to let herself drink with me (she knows she can get out of control and therefore needs a lot of trust) the sex has been epic. She's asking me if she sucks my balls right or if I want it harder or softer. She suggested we video her sucking my cock (her face in not mine). Her BJ is now fine tuned to what I like. She smiles her dynamite smile when I cum looking into her eyes. It's developed into perhaps the most comfortable bedroom time I've ever had. Can't wait to see her again.

So yeah. Lots of cammers and scammers. But TOTALLY worth it.

[QUOTE=MiamiBoy1;2525531]Tinder works great in Russia, especially in 2nd tier cities. I had positive experience with SA in CDMX.[/QUOTE]Yep, I am killing it in MTY. I had some good luck with it in Russia. I miss Moscow so much.

[QUOTE=NeilGeorge;2525443]This website is not worth it any more. Several reasons:

Price went up to 99 a month for men starting January 25th.

Many women from Craigslist, who were simply prostitute escorts, have moved in. They want a quick buck at their convenience, their timing, location, etc. They are not willing to meet at a restaurant and explore a LTR.

Many women, especially the younger ones, expect to get money or a gift prior to meeting in person.

Many women use text technology and will not answer a phone to converse prior to expecting to meet. Fewer of these women will show up.

Many are trying to sell videos or photos of themselves. Some argue that because of Covid they want an "online" arrangement. This means you pay them money to see their photos or videos. Not actual meetings.

Many are using fake names, fake photos, face photos which do not reveal their huge butts or other obesity.[/QUOTE]Sorry, I could not disagree more. I love SA. I am 51 and having the best time of my life and incredible sex. Takes work and yes there are scams, but they are fairly easily detected. I love SA and MTY. Moscow is better, but believe it or not MTY is a gold mine and little money for what I get back in return.

My SB for the past 3+ months broke up with me. It was kind of an ugly breakup. She said that I was selfish and only cared about sex. There's truth to both, but that's why I was paying her monthly mortgage.

I am beginning to think that a great WG is better than an SB. If the WG can fake the GFE, then why bother with an SB? The hard part, of course, is finding WGs that provide great GFE. Some of that comes with time. In my life, there were about four or five WGs that I saw pretty regularly that eventually became sort of like a GF.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2525617]My SB for the past 3+ months broke up with me. It was kind of an ugly breakup. She said that I was selfish and only cared about sex. There's truth to both, but that's why I was paying her monthly mortgage.

I am beginning to think that a great WG is better than an SB. If the WG can fake the GFE, then why bother with an SB? The hard part, of course, is finding WGs that provide great GFE. Some of that comes with time. In my life, there were about four or five WGs that I saw pretty regularly that eventually became sort of like a GF.[/QUOTE]I guess if you are just after an hour of fun then a solid GFE hooker is great. If you want to go longer tho — like a four hour dinner and date it's going to be $400*4=$1600. Or god forbid and overnight. But if you can find the right one she'll go off the books. I had a girl in London that I booked thru the agency for £150 an hour. But we agreed £400 for dinner and all night sleepover. I think she woulda taken less. So if you have chemistry with a great GFE escort it can work economically.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2525568]Sorry, I could not disagree more. I love SA. I am 51 and having the best time of my life and incredible sex. Takes work and yes there are scams, but they are fairly easily detected. I love SA and MTY. Moscow is better, but believe it or not MTY is a gold mine and little money for what I get back in return.[/QUOTE]I see a lot of similar complaints on the SA sub-forums in the various US city forums, and well. Not to pile on or brag, but I've had 5 SB's in the last 7 days, 3 regulars and 2 new additions to the roster. I'm wiped out and looking forward to a few nights off. I also have several more in the pipeline and even more that I've just had to drop due to lack of time. It does take a bit of time, effort, and positive energy, so if you're just looking for a quick lay (or straight-up escorts as the front page says) and can't handle some missed connections, use some site other than SA. I confirm what the other posters say about the reward, which for me goes well beyond the physical. I enjoy the drama-less fun, friendship, and vitality I feel from making genuine connections with kindred spirits that are, shall we say, just a tad bit younger than me. It's even a free cultural education for me. If there wasn't an element of challenge, it wouldn't be as rewarding, but I also feel compelled to credit the many men on that site that make it so sooooo easy for me haha (as my SB's would text it).

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2525624]I guess if you are just after an hour of fun then a solid GFE hooker is great. If you want to go longer tho like a four hour dinner and date it's going to be $400*4=$1600. Or god forbid and overnight. But if you can find the right one she'll go off the books. I had a girl in London that I booked thru the agency for 150 an hour. But we agreed 400 for dinner and all night sleepover. I think she woulda taken less. So if you have chemistry with a great GFE escort it can work economically.[/QUOTE]Got to say a nice thing about a hooker is they aren't shy. This girl I'm talking about in London was a real naughty minx. She was grabbing my package at the dinner table whenever the waiter wasn't looking. And when we were walking down the street hand In hand she put my free hand inside her bra to keep it warm!

At dinner she said "You should adopt me. Then you could fuck me every day!" Damn I really like her. Going to have to see her next time I am in London. She's quite the firecracker!

[QUOTE=CarloRogue;2525636]I see a lot of similar complaints on the SA sub-forums in the various US city forums, and well. Not to pile on or brag, but I've had 5 SB's in the last 7 days, 3 regulars and 2 new additions to the roster. I'm wiped out and looking forward to a few nights off. I also have several more in the pipeline and even more that I've just had to drop due to lack of time. It does take a bit of time, effort, and positive energy, so if you're just looking for a quick lay (or straight-up escorts as the front page says) and can't handle some missed connections, use some site other than SA. I confirm what the other posters say about the reward, which for me goes well beyond the physical. I enjoy the drama-less fun, friendship, and vitality I feel from making genuine connections with kindred spirits that are, shall we say, just a tad bit younger than me. It's even a free cultural education for me. If there wasn't an element of challenge, it wouldn't be as rewarding, but I also feel compelled to credit the many men on that site that make it so sooooo easy for me haha (as my SB's would text it).[/QUOTE]Well said, I am living a dream. I will be back in MTY Saturday, I can not wait.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2525617]My SB for the past 3+ months broke up with me. It was kind of an ugly breakup. She said that I was selfish and only cared about sex. There's truth to both, but that's why I was paying her monthly mortgage.

I am beginning to think that a great WG is better than an SB. If the WG can fake the GFE, then why bother with an SB? The hard part, of course, is finding WGs that provide great GFE. Some of that comes with time. In my life, there were about four or five WGs that I saw pretty regularly that eventually became sort of like a GF.[/QUOTE]Sorry about that you will find something better.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2525617]My SB for the past 3+ months broke up with me. It was kind of an ugly breakup. She said that I was selfish and only cared about sex. There's truth to both, but that's why I was paying her monthly mortgage.

I am beginning to think that a great WG is better than an SB. If the WG can fake the GFE, then why bother with an SB? The hard part, of course, is finding WGs that provide great GFE. Some of that comes with time. In my life, there were about four or five WGs that I saw pretty regularly that eventually became sort of like a GF.[/QUOTE]This is the 3rd time. I think maybe the cause is rooted in that she was not seeking a SD from the beginning and you put her into the SB role. Also language barrier, and the fact you are a foreigner makes her think it is not permanent so she feels insecure. Just my wild guesses.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2525640]Got to say a nice thing about a hooker is they aren't shy. This girl I'm talking about in London was a real naughty minx. She was grabbing my package at the dinner table whenever the waiter wasn't looking. And when we were walking down the street hand In hand she put my free hand inside her bra to keep it warm!

At dinner she said "You should adopt me. Then you could fuck me every day!" Damn I really like her. Going to have to see her next time I am in London. She's quite the firecracker![/QUOTE]I think this is not because she is a hooker. I have met a few hookers that I thought were born for this job. I think these girls will be great even if they are not hookers.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2525617]My SB for the past 3+ months broke up with me. It was kind of an ugly breakup. She said that I was selfish and only cared about sex. There's truth to both, but that's why I was paying her monthly mortgage.

I am beginning to think that a great WG is better than an SB. If the WG can fake the GFE, then why bother with an SB? The hard part, of course, is finding WGs that provide great GFE. Some of that comes with time. In my life, there were about four or five WGs that I saw pretty regularly that eventually became sort of like a GF.[/QUOTE]MW, for me a SB is fun in and out of the bedroom. A WG is just friend in the bedroom, or that is all I care about it. I think you need to define what you want.

With me, the definition of what I want in any woman is that they make feel better sexually and emotionally. That is what I am paying for. If there is too much shaming or greed, then that woman is done.

What are you saying she is right for that you wanted sex and were selfish? Fuck that. You are paying the bills. She never should have felt comfortable even saying those things to you. You are better off without her.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2525624]I guess if you are just after an hour of fun then a solid GFE hooker is great. If you want to go longer tho like a four hour dinner and date it's going to be $400*4=$1600. Or god forbid and overnight. But if you can find the right one she'll go off the books. I had a girl in London that I booked thru the agency for 150 an hour. But we agreed 400 for dinner and all night sleepover. I think she woulda taken less. So if you have chemistry with a great GFE escort it can work economically.[/QUOTE]For me, SBs have been more expensive. Buying them presents, and paying for expensive dinners and trips, all adds up. But I paid for all of this because I like the GFE.

But that said, my current negative opinion of SBs are probably all coming from my very recent SB experience. I paid a monthly allowance when I barely saw her, and she gave me a lot of shit because I mostly cared about sex. In addition, I got tired of the dates. They were becoming tedious and boring.

But I still think SA is the best way to go in the United States.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2525976]MW, for me a SB is fun in and out of the bedroom. A WG is just friend in the bedroom, or that is all I care about it. I think you need to define what you want.

With me, the definition of what I want in any woman is that they make feel better sexually and emotionally. That is what I am paying for. If there is too much shaming or greed, then that woman is done.

What are you saying she is right for that you wanted sex and were selfish? Fuck that. You are paying the bills. She never should have felt comfortable even saying those things to you. You are better off without her.[/QUOTE]Correct, time is money. You can not put a valley on good SD relationship. The phone calls, text messages, spending the night, you can not put a value on any of this. Not to mention you are with a girl half your age, she is not complaining, and she is happy to be around you. I am 51 and hanging out with girls between 20-27 in MTY, it is unbelievable. The girls I am with now are way better then the girls I was dating traditionally when I was in my 20's-30's. With a few exceptions the girls are also way better looking then the girls I was meeting in Kiev and MDE, honestly when you add in there personality it is not even close. Moscow is a different story, if you have the time, money and any game you can write your own ticket, but I know longer have the time, money yes.

I hear a lot of guys complaining about SA, for me I can not say enough good things about it. L Here is just one example. Friday I arrived late, in MTY, because of work issues. One of my regulars meets me at 10 pm at the hotel. I was exhausted so the sex was not the best that was all on me, and I purchased t Viag, and when I arrived at the hotel the box was empty, it happens. Anyway, we spent the night together, we watched a movie and ordered Pizza. All for $200, plus pizaza. What a great night, besides being exhausted from work drama. I have several more dates lined up over the next few days. Loving Life and SA in MTY.

When are referring to SA do we mean seeking com or seekingagreements com?

Sometimes you just have to say no. The girl I met last night is one of the best looking girls I have ever been with in my life. 5'8', 110, just beautiful. Honestly I think she is better looking then my main girl in MTY, that is an actual model, (It Sucks, She is on total lock down, her parents came to visit, now they will not leave and the will not let her leave the house because of Covid. They are crazy about Covid in MTY) She is super nice and loves to party, but just too much. She has a drinking problem, I thought there had been improvement, but I guess I was wrong.

She show up, of course hungover, she asked about money before she came I said $300, which is $100 more than I usually pay, but she is that hot, but that was for the night. 2 hours in she says she is tired and we should go to bed, it was 8 pm, and I said lets wait 20 minutes then we can go. She then tells me she can not spend the night, to my surprise. I thought she was joking, but she had to go home because of her brother. This was total be. S. , because they party all night all the time. I was speechless, she knew I was upset. I said why did you not tell me this before you came. Of course she has all kinds of excuses. I real love being around her, but just too much drama. I suggest we meet Monday, have dinner and she can spend the night. She says no, and end of story. It was not about the money, it had to do more with here being real hungover, and was not up front about not spending the night.

I am flexible, but I have my limits. Time to move on. We had a monthly arrangement at the beginning and obliviously*that did not turn out well, another story for another day.

No matter how hot they are, if they are a pain in the ass, OR, if you feel like they are not really into you, then you have to cut them loose. There was a 26 year old, 180 cm, model from Poland that was really into me. But all she wanted to do was smoke weed and watch movies in bed, like almost 24 hours a day. It was boring and annoying. And, for some people, being high makes you not horny, and that was her. We only did the deed twice out of the hundreds of hours that we spent together. So I finally broke it off with her, and she couldn't believe it, because she was so hot. Another SB hottie that I dated for a short while always wanted to take off right away, after the deed, so she could go clubbing with her friends. So I stopped seeing her too. To her, I was just a part-time job.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2527538]Sometimes you just have to say no. The girl I met last night is one of the best looking girls I have ever been with in my life. 5'8', 110, just beautiful. Honestly I think she is better looking then my main girl in MTY, that is an actual model, She is super nice and loves to party, but just too much. She has a drinking problem, I thought there had been improvement, but I guess I was wrong.

She show up, of course hungover, she asked about money before she came I said $300, which is $100 more than I usually pay, but she is that hot, but that was for the night. 2 hours in she says she is tired and we should go to bed, it was 8 pm, and I said lets wait 20 minutes then we can go. She then tells me she can not spend the night, to my surprise. I thought she was joking, but she had to go home because of her brother. This was total be. S. , because they party all night all the time. I was speechless, she knew I was upset. I said why did you not tell me this before you came. Of course she has all kinds of excuses. I real love being around her, but just too much drama. I suggest we meet Monday, have dinner and she can spend the night. She says no, and end of story. It was not about the money, it had to do more with here being real hungover, and was not up front about not spending the night.

I am flexible, but I have my limits. Time to move on. We had a monthly arrangement at the beginning and obliviously*that did not turn out well, another story for another day.[/QUOTE].

No matter how hot they are, if they are a pain in the ass, OR, if you feel like they are not really into you, then you have to cut them loose. There was a 26 year old, 180 cm, model from Poland that was really into me. But all she wanted to do was smoke weed and watch movies in bed, like almost 24 hours a day. It was boring and annoying. And, for some people, being high makes you not horny, and that was her. We only did the deed twice out of the hundreds of hours that we spent together. So I finally broke it off with her, and she couldn't believe it, because she was so hot. Another SB hottie that I dated for a short while always wanted to take off right away, after the deed, so she could go clubbing with her friends. So I stopped seeing her too. To her, I was just a part-time job.

Great advice as always. I wanted it to work, but I have my limits. I tried monthly and PPM, but nothing will ever be enough for her. Love her to death, but it is no win situation.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2527538]She show up, of course hungover, she asked about money before she came I said $300, which is $100 more than I usually pay, but she is that hot, but that was for the night. 2 hours in she says she is tired and we should go to bed, it was 8 pm, and I said lets wait 20 minutes then we can go. She then tells me she can not spend the night, to my surprise. I thought she was joking, but she had to go home because of her brother. This was total be. S. , because they party all night all the time. I was speechless, she knew I was upset. I said why did you not tell me this before you came. Of course she has all kinds of excuses. I real love being around her, but just too much drama. I suggest we meet Monday, have dinner and she can spend the night. She says no, and end of story. It was not about the money, it had to do more with here being real hungover, and was not up front about not spending the night.[/QUOTE]I got two stories for you on this, DF. I have this lawyer in CDMX, and I know you do not like my saying a girl is a 10 (I thought the pic of the one you sent me was damned close to one BTW), but I think she is: internationally ranked swimmer, smart. Anyway, I am talking my friend about her. She is like "Elvis, that woman has self esteem issues and is borderline." Immediately, I knew she was right. The saying with borderlines is I love you, I hate you, do not leave me. So any time you have a woman freaking out about your abandoning her, and this girl did, she probably is borderline, and it is time to head for the exit. I had a terrible incident with a borderline SB, and I cannot believe I missed it with this one. It sounds like your girl has a mental illness or personality disorder. It sucks that I have to dump mine. She was so hot and great in bed.

The good thing about Monterrey is the hit rate is so high that you can blow one off easily. As I said I was kind of fucked out and my schedule was packed in MTY. I had only 2 out of 8 no shows for first time meetings which in my experience is really good. Anyway, the last day I was supposed to meet a newbie at 10 AM. I hear nothing and do not care. She was an 8 I thought by her photos and I sensed in real life she was not even that.

She texts me at noon and says she overslept. I say, "That is okay. Maybe I can meet you next trip." She says "Well, you know I really need money to go see my parents today. I cannot meet you because I have to be at work by 2 PM. "I really wanted to be a smart ass and tell her off. You really expect money after standing me up *****? I think maybe my silence will send a message. Wrong. She texts me again and says, "Well, you know, if you are not going to give me money, I am just going to block you."

I know from your posts and texts DF you are a rational guy and so am I. I think people like us with common sense sometimes forget it is not that common because when I told my female friend about this girl, she laughed and scolded me. "You know, Elvis, I think you forget how many dumb bitches there are in the universe." I laughed and pleaded guilty to the charge.

I wish everyone here had a friend like her.

[QUOTE=GuyBrusg1957;2527008]When are referring to SA do we mean seeking com or seekingagreements com?[/QUOTE]Seeking com aka Seekingarrangement.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2526066]For me, SBs have been more expensive. Buying them presents, and paying for expensive dinners and trips, all adds up. But I paid for all of this because I like the GFE.

But that said, my current negative opinion of SBs are probably all coming from my very recent SB experience. I paid a monthly allowance when I barely saw her, and she gave me a lot of shit because I mostly cared about sex. In addition, I got tired of the dates. They were becoming tedious and boring.

But I still think SA is the best way to go in the United States.[/QUOTE]Hey MW. I feel you. I had gotten to this same place with one of my SBs. Dates got boring and I kinda wanted something new. After months of hanging out (when I was in town), she cut comms after one disagreement. This kinda made me intolerant when it comes to SBs. Now I reply in kind. If you are a sweet girl and perform your part of the arrangement, then we will have a great time with dinners, clothes, trips, and great memories. If you are greedy, unfair, or show signs of not being cool (like taking the allowance without making absolute sure to see me), then I'll be unfair before I suddenly cut ties. There are too many girls and too many cites.

Cost. I agree. You spend more money dealing with an SB. However, if you compare time, then I think an escort would usually come out being way more expensive. The exception that I have found is Prague. The escorts normally have 4 hour deals for about 300- 400 euro. I haven't had much success in Prague with SB, but I have knocked it out of the park with escorts for about the same price. In this case, I prefer a GFE escort instead of the czech SBs. I know one escort that will easily blow 6 hours with me and ask for 300 eu at the end (love ukrainian girls) In other cities, I prefer seeking by far!

02.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2527670]I got two stories for you on this, DF. I have this lawyer in CDMX, and I know you do not like my saying a girl is a 10 (I thought the pic of the one you sent me was damned close to one BTW), but I think she is: internationally ranked swimmer, smart. Anyway, I am talking my friend about her. She is like "Elvis, that woman has self esteem issues and is borderline." Immediately, I knew she was right. The saying with borderlines is I love you, I hate you, do not leave me. So any time you have a woman freaking out about your abandoning her, and this girl did, she probably is borderline, and it is time to head for the exit. I had a terrible incident with a borderline SB, and I cannot believe I missed it with this one. It sounds like your girl has a mental illness or personality disorder. It sucks that I have to dump mine. She was so hot and great in bed.

The good thing about Monterrey is the hit rate is so high that you can blow one off easily. As I said I was kind of fucked out and my schedule was packed in MTY. I had only 2 out of 8 no shows for first time meetings which in my experience is really good. Anyway, the last day I was supposed to meet a newbie at 10 AM. I hear nothing and do not care. She was an 8 I thought by her photos and I sensed in real life she was not even that.

She texts me at noon and says she overslept. I say, "That is okay. Maybe I can meet you next trip." She says "Well, you know I really need money to go see my parents today. I cannot meet you because I have to be at work by 2 PM. "I really wanted to be a smart ass and tell her off. You really expect money after standing me up *****? I think maybe my silence will send a message. Wrong. She texts me again and says, "Well, you know, if you are not going to give me money, I am just going to block you.".[/QUOTE]I am so glad you had fun. My trip definitely turned around after you left. You are so correct about hit rate. Not to mention there are some real stunners, that are professionals and love sex. I hope we can meet soon.

Trip Report.

1. Friday a beautiful 20 year spent the night. Very Exotic and beautiful.

2. Saturday / Sunday sucked but it gets better.

3. Monday starts off bad, cancellations. At 4 pm everything turned around a beautiful 20 year old college student met me, wow very hot and a even nicer person. We spent the 6 hours together and multiple sessions. So much fun.

4. Tuesday morning rocks. Super sweet regular shows up at 8:30 am, everything included. Multiple sessions with Anal.

5. 10:45 2 regular show up, threesome, Anal, bi-sexual experience, and riming. Most guys would rate these girls 6.5-7.5.

Here's the best part, all the girls thank me. I want to me again. Loving life.

A girl stood you up for a first date, but still asked you for money, and then she threatened to block you when you ignored her? Jeezus fxxxing Khrist. Is she out of her mind?! Does even one guy out of a hundred fall for this? LOL, man.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2527670]
The good thing about Monterrey is the hit rate is so high that you can blow one off easily. As I said I was kind of fucked out and my schedule was packed in MTY. I had only 2 out of 8 no shows for first time meetings which in my experience is really good. Anyway, the last day I was supposed to meet a newbie at 10 AM. I hear nothing and do not care. She was an 8 I thought by her photos and I sensed in real life she was not even that.

She texts me at noon and says she overslept. I say, "That is okay. Maybe I can meet you next trip." She says "Well, you know I really need money to go see my parents today. I cannot meet you because I have to be at work by 2 PM. "I really wanted to be a smart ass and tell her off. You really expect money after standing me up *****? I think maybe my silence will send a message. Wrong. She texts me again and says, "Well, you know, if you are not going to give me money, I am just going to block you.".[/QUOTE].

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2527991]A girl stood you up for a first date, but still asked you for money, and then she threatened to block you when you ignored her? Jeezus fxxxing Khrist. Is she out of her mind?! Does even one guy out of a hundred fall for this? LOL, man.

.[/QUOTE]There are great and smart girls on SA and those are the ones I end up with. But I continue to be dumbfounded by the ignorance or arrogance of so many. Girls who post "I want to be spoiled and go on trips and stuff. " And that's it. No discussion of what they bring to the party and why I will want to be with them. Does this really work? Last thing I want is a girl that leads with I want money and have nothing to give in return.

I contacted one girl who was even more direct. Something like "I'm a spoiled little be*tch" and asked her if that really works. She pretty much bitched me out and said it does. OK. Good luck with that.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2528015]There are great and smart girls on SA and those are the ones I end up with. But I continue to be dumbfounded by the ignorance or arrogance of so many. Girls who post "I want to be spoiled and go on trips and stuff. " And that's it. No discussion of what they bring to the party and why I will want to be with them. Does this really work? Last thing I want is a girl that leads with I want money and have nothing to give in return.

I contacted one girl who was even more direct. Something like "I'm a spoiled little be*tch" and asked her if that really works. She pretty much bitched me out and said it does. OK. Good luck with that.[/QUOTE]Simple solution. You want that kind of a woman and treatment? Marry an American feminist. Isn't that what most here are running from! Guess some men are confused masochists. Or these women are in fantasy land.

[QUOTE=GeneHickman;2528038]Simple solution. You want that kind of a woman and treatment? Marry an American feminist. Isn't that what most here are running from! Guess some men are confused masochists. Or these women are in fantasy land.[/QUOTE]Exactly I am running from the American women. I am not sure I will ever date one again, they just drive me crazy and everyone else around them. Love the post.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2527935]Here's the best part, all the girls thank me. I want to me again. Loving life.[/QUOTE]Yeah, I was really shocked by how nice the women were. In the past, I thought MTY was so close to the border and some had American attitudes. Not this time. They did everything I wanted: no clock watching, no running out the door. I just could not believe how sweet and accommodating the women were.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2528015]There are great and smart girls on SA and those are the ones I end up with. But I continue to be dumbfounded by the ignorance or arrogance of so many. Girls who post "I want to be spoiled and go on trips and stuff. " And that's it. No discussion of what they bring to the party and why I will want to be with them. Does this really work? Last thing I want is a girl that leads with I want money and have nothing to give in return.

I contacted one girl who was even more direct. Something like "I'm a spoiled little be*tch" and asked her if that really works. She pretty much bitched me out and said it does. OK. Good luck with that.[/QUOTE]Some of these girls live on another planet. One girl in Amsterdam told me that 2000 eu is the norm for her allowance and she doesn't see how a girl can settle for anything less. LOL.

2000 euro / mo with no tax is what some people make as their monthly wage.

So how do you guys respond to the "what do you offer" question that comes up when approaching a new prospect? I usually answer with, "One makes offers for good and services. This is neither. I prefer we consider the question of how can we help each other. "

I'm curious to hear what other guys are saying as some girls cut conversation after my response, while others dig the approach and we end up making something happen.

02.

[QUOTE=LshRoomer;2528063]Some of these girls live on another planet. One girl in Amsterdam told me that 2000 eu is the norm for her allowance and she doesn't see how a girl can settle for anything less. LOL.

2000 euro / mo with no tax is what some people make as their monthly wage.

So how do you guys respond to the "what do you offer" question that comes up when approaching a new prospect? I usually answer with, "One makes offers for good and services. This is neither. I prefer we consider the question of how can we help each other. "

I'm curious to hear what other guys are saying as some girls cut conversation after my response, while others dig the approach and we end up making something happen.

02.[/QUOTE]Yep, I have had a couple girls quote me $500 in MTY for 2-3 hours of run, lately. I laugh, sometimes they negotiate others try to hold there ground. Things are getting rough in Mexico and I image other places. I think prices might start coming down. I real do not worry about $25-50, but will not go above $200, unless a very rare case and she better be model hot. Good luck, great post.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2527991]A girl stood you up for a first date, but still asked you for money, and then she threatened to block you when you ignored her? Jeezus fxxxing Khrist. Is she out of her mind?! Does even one guy out of a hundred fall for this? LOL, man..[/QUOTE]As Gene pointed out, I see this kind of crap from American women all the time. I was a little surprised to see it in Mexico. There is so much loneliness in the USA, my friend told me about men paying hundreds just to have women to talk with them. That sounds crazy to me.

One of the things that my friend and I talked about too was the book The Game by Neil Strauss. Here are some of the techniques written about in the book:

Make yourself seem like the most fun and interesting person in the room.

Confuse your target (the woman you're trying to hit on) with negs, which are backhanded compliments or vague insults.

Use gimmicks, such as magic tricks and ESP tests, to impress and intrigue her.

Maintain a push-pull balance, in order to keep her engaged and wanting more. For example, if your conversation with a woman is going well and you show that you're interested in her, then look around the club for a moment, as if you're distracted or looking for someone else.

Never be the aggressor. For example, lead the woman into offering her phone number—but never explicitly ask for it.

So many men think they are so much smarter than women but beautiful women have a lot more interactions with men than vice versa, and the women I know see guys using The Game techniques a mile away. They are laugh at some of these techniques and are annoyed at the negging.

My friend told me that the Game techniques do work on her stupid friends and told me that the women I hang out with just happened to be smart. I honestly had not thought about that, but I realized she was right. It is not that I screen for intelligence as much as just wean out stupid women like this one.

From what I have seen for every legit guy like those on this forum, there are 50 scam artists on seeking trying to rip women off and get free pussy. A woman showed me her messages, and I could pick out the scammers a mile away. In fact, we picked out the same legit guys. The women who say "Don't waste my time" I suspect are usually the ones who cannot screen well.

I suspect that crazy woman would be vulnerable to the Game techniques.

[QUOTE=LshRoomer;2528063]So how do you guys respond to the "what do you offer" question that comes up when approaching a new prospect? I usually answer with, "One makes offers for good and services. This is neither. I prefer we consider the question of how can we help each other. "

I'm curious to hear what other guys are saying as some girls cut conversation after my response, while others dig the approach and we end up making something happen.

02.[/QUOTE]In the USA, I do not think you get anywhere without a price. I will say with those women "My range of giving gifts has been from $ to $$ In other countries, where the women usually are not as experienced, I find I do not have to. I say "We have to figure out what our schedules are like and I prefer to talk about these things in person. " Most actually accept that and the women are much less interested in the how much question after we meet. When the women insist on a price, they are often more ho than SB types.

I like your approach Lshroomer and understand what you are saying but I just wonder if that kind of lecturing phrase on goods and services might make a woman think, "I am not going out with this guy, he is not going to give me anything. " My goal is to get the woman to meet me so I appear generous but not to commit myself to a price because so often the women show up not looking like their pics (both better and worse) or just the woman somehow turns me off. I usually know if I want the woman after the first few minutes and usually everything outside of the price is usually forgotten about once the woman and you have a face to face meeting.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2528060]Yeah, I was really shocked by how nice the women were. In the past, I thought MTY was so close to the border and some had American attitudes. Not this time. They did everything I wanted: no clock watching, no running out the door. I just could not believe how sweet and accommodating the women were.[/QUOTE]Yep, we are living the dream. Kind of funny how others call us names and accuse of lying on other pages, it just makes no sense. We are just trying to help guys, but others find fault in everything, it just makes no sense. They are jealous, I try to be careful not to brag and I also try to point out the good and bad, but as you know, it is way better then anyone can imagine.

The guys on this page are great and learn something from all of them, I real appreciate there feedback and candor.

Love it when you guys kick off a dialog. So much good stuff in here.

I read The Game a year or two ago and while some of it is absolute crap the negging and the flamboyance and all, a lot of it is very good. I can't recall if it's that book or the Unchained Man perhaps that talks about how we have allowed ourselves as men to be made second class citizens to entitled women who provide little I return. And oh how that resonates with me!

A lot of the stuff in that book (or the Unchained Male. I have them confused) is the basis for Nanpa street pickup in Japan and man had that shit been helpful have a plan, keep a strong frame, lead the girl, escalate, push and pull. Maybe you guys are all great at that shit but for a guy who hadn't dated in 40 years it's like gold. Especially since I seem to run across more newbies than the average joe. I recommend you go to AttractionJapan and read some of the blogs and then the newsgroup there. It has an interesting format where everyone describes their journey in a single thread. Really interesting. Some guys just slaying it. Others beginning their journey. It's great reading if you are intrigued by the male female dynamic, plus you pick up useful pointers.

On the $$ thing I find that I prefer to sort it early. Again because of Newbie status. Girls have some outrageous ideas from reading blogs. I had a girl in NYC where we had absolutely the best time and I gave her $400 and she ghosted me. I got her to confess why and she said she had an awesome time but thought it would be $1000 based on what she's read. Funny part is she didn't mind the $400 but was beating herself up about how awful she must be in bed for me to discount her to $400. LOL. Poor thing. Nice girl.

And same thing with Sarah. When we started to fade I got her to confess and she said she just thought there'the be a lot more money in it (I was giving her $300-350).

With a new girl I am exploring, we covered it up front very delicately. But even the "what do you consider a complete relationship" discussion (ie are we fucking?) I had to handle carefully. She said she doesn't just give herself away easily and needs to get to know me. I told her I understood but it's the 21st century and most girls are comfortable to get intimate on date 1 or Date 2 and I don't need a prolonged romance. She was cool with that. I took the pressure off her by saying we would only kiss on date 1 no matter how much she begs me. I used this approach with Sarah and was barebacking on date 2. So we will see how it goes but it seems they like the "give" on my part, the humor, and it let's then engage. We will see very soon how it turns out!

I don't know if any of you have condom advice to share but feel free to chime in. Seems like a never ending journey for me. LOL.

Stage 1 Fucking hate condoms. Why bother just stick with blowjob which is so much better.

Stage 2 Discover Japanese condoms. Okamoto 01 and 02. Really dig them but even XL is a bit tight and then I had like three break in a row. That crossed them off my list.

Stage 3 Moved to Trojan Bareskins and really like them. Quite a good feel. But Sarah says the latex gives her a rash and Layla says she's gets a UTI from latex condoms.

Stage 4 Using Skyn Elites. Like these. Non latex. Feel good but don't break. Think the Bareskins might feel a notch better. Might have to do a side by side compare with a girl that doesn't mind latex.

And avoid Durex Real Feel at all costs. They are non latex and the store was out of Skyns. I was fucking Layla the other day with one and might as well have had a condom made of football leather on. Couldn't feel a thing. Fortunately scrounged up a Skyn and finished the deed. LOL.

What's your experience?

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2528138]Yep, we are living the dream. Kind of funny how others call us names and accuse of lying on other pages, it just makes no sense. We are just trying to help guys, but others find fault in everything, it just makes no sense. They are jealous, I try to be careful not to brag and I also try to point out the good and bad, but as you know, it is way better then anyone can imagine.

The guys on this page are great and learn something from all of them, I real appreciate there feedback and candor.[/QUOTE]I think a lot of guys on ISG are not familiar with the principles of Who Moved My Cheese?

In this endeavor, the cheese moves all the fucking time. The age, body style, and looks of the women we pursue never changes. But the ladies themselves live in a different environment every generation.

A guy in his 70's might possibly be having sex with the actual granddaughter of a sex worker he saw when he was in his 20's.

But the granddaughter has an entirely different way of doing business than her grandma did when grandma was in her 20's.

Adapting really angers a lot of guys on ISG. A guy jumped on a lot of my posts where I summarized escort reviews and contact information, and said the commercial sex scene belongs on the streets. Yes, the streets. The granddaughter is supposed to walk the same block that her grandma did, I guess. And if granddaughter works at an FKK, I guess she should find an old yearbook with grandma's picture in it from decades ago. The irony is that poster did a link to the locations of the street scene that was inaccurate and from a website designed to get web traffic for pop-up ads. He didn't just lead others through the mouse maze away from the cheese, he was willing to send them into danger by leading the mice to the cat (the street intersections were in bad neighborhoods).

The Sugar scene is a manifestation of technology. It brings ladies into the scene that would otherwise not have participated, and it allows people to meet who otherwise would not have. But it involves payment for time, effort and product such as food that does not directly and immediately involve a penis being in a vagina, mouth or anus. It is disruptive and some view it negatively. They have some valid points, but like the most angry mouse in Who Moved My Cheese, that anger doesn't really accomplish anything. None of us have much control over things, but we have to make decisions constantly based on new facts and the principle that the only thing in life that is certain (and constant) is change. Look how much advantageous one-on-one local commercial sex interactions arranged via technology have been over other methods of obtaining commercial sex during the pandemic. The guys posting here might not have gotten much of any sex recently if it wasn't for the Sugar scene.

Personally, I had a cell phone and email full of escorts that I have seen and was able to contact the past year. Those Seeking contacts may be quite a good source over the years for a lot of guys here. Easier than always hoping a lady returns to a certain street corner, or hoping the FKK reopens. So ignore some of the haters you encounter in other threads.

I like the gray Trojan brand but I like going bare when I do seeking. I plan on getting a vasectomy soon, but for now, you can buy plan be OTC. I finish outside the woman and give her a pill right when I am done and yes, I watch her swallow it: [URL]https://www.insider.com/how-effective-is-plan-b[/URL].

Plan be doesn't always work. It has a 95% chance of preventing pregnancy if you take it within 24 hours of having unprotected sex.

It is actually safer for pregnancy prevention than condoms: [URL]https://www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/birth-control/condom/how-effective-are-condoms[/URL].

"If you use condoms perfectly every single time you have sex, they're 98% effective at preventing pregnancy. But people aren't perfect, so in real life condoms are about 85% effective — that means about 15 out of 100 people who use condoms as their only birth control method will get pregnant each year. ".

It is funny you mention the latex thing Steve because that is a huge issue with a lot of people. I have had bumps that scared me that I thought were herpes but were just a latex allergy. There are cases of people putting on latex gloves and having an anaphylactic reaction and dying.

If I saw a girl more often, I try to give her the depoprovera pregnancy shot. Here is a website where you can buy it for $14 and it lasts 3 months: [URL]https://www.ivfpharmacy.com/drug/Depo-Provera.aspx[/URL].

As the site says as long as you are using the drug for personal use, I. E. Not reselling it, it is actually legal to import it. I like giving the shot myself instead of relying on a woman saying she is taking the pill.

Everybody asks about STDs and condoms, and everyone gets all miffed about this but here is a website story that is in reference to a large government study that was buried. [URL]https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/resources/life-and-family/sexuality-contraception/surprise-study-finds-condoms-dont-work[/URL].

On July 20, a report was issued by the USA Department of Health and Human Services. A scientific panel co-sponsored by the National Institutes of Health (NIH), the Food and Drug Administration (FDA), the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), the USA Agency for International Development (USAID), developed the report. It was based on a yearlong study in which 28 researchers reviewed 138 peer-reviewed, published studies on the heterosexual transmission of sexually transmitted diseases (STD).

Their findings were stunning. Basically, it boils down to this: There is no evidence to indicate that condoms prevent the heterosexual transmission of most sexually transmitted diseases. None.

When used "correctly and consistently," condoms were found to reduce heterosexual HIV infection rate by 85 percent. (Which still leaves a 15 percent infection rate – not a good stat for a deadly disease.) They also found that condom use reduced the risk of gonorrhea, but only in men.

For all of the other diseases, zilch. Nothing. There is no evidence that the condom does anything to prevent transmission of these diseases.

And here's the kicker. The two diseases that the condom may offer some protection against constitute only 2 percent of all heterosexual STD cases in America. Two percent. This means that, based on overwhelming evidence, the condom does nothing to protect against 98 percent of all cases of heterosexually transmitted disease in America today.

End of quote.

This meta-analysis changed my opinion about using condoms. I was never worried about HIV. The heterosexual transmission rate is along the risks of getting hit by lightning.

So I go bare and if I have question about the girl, I take a few antibiotics or antivirals as prophylaxis against the more common STDs. Again, people get miffed about this too, so I am not going to list the drugs.

I am not recommending my regimen to anyone. It is just what I do and as long as I have followed this protocol, I have not had any issues.

But going bare is one of the reasons I like using seeking.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2528179]

But going bare is one of the reasons I like using seeking.[/QUOTE]This topic often gets people worked up, but yeah, I am guilty of bare-backing more than I should. I used to be very strict about using a condom, but one of my long-time ATF WGs begged to go BB and we did and of course it felt great and then I became hooked. So, yes, this is another benefit of Seeking.

Recently, I shaved my entire kok, including the shaft. Bare-backing feels even more amazing, with the smooth glide.

Funny thing is that the SB that recently broke up with me, I knew her menstrual cycle very well. And so, whenever she was about to go on or off her period, I would meet up with her so that I could BB her and CIP, but when she was on her period, I told her that I was busy at work. Eventually, she figured out the pattern, and that was one of her pieces of evidence that I only cared about sex. I have to admit, she was clever to figure this out.

[QUOTE=LshRoomer;2528063]

So how do you guys respond to the "what do you offer" question that comes up when approaching a new prospect? I usually answer with, "One makes offers for good and services. This is neither. I prefer we consider the question of how can we help each other. "

I'm curious to hear what other guys are saying as some girls cut conversation after my response, while others dig the approach and we end up making something happen.

02.[/QUOTE]When a girl asks, "what do you offer?" I always say, "Let's meet first to see if there's chemistry. If there's chemistry, then we can discuss an agreement. ".

One would think that my response is reasonable, but many girls then take a pass on me. But I am okay with this, because these are exactly the types of girls that I would not have had chemistry with anyway. And for me chemistry is important in an arrangement. If and when it is not important, then that's when I see a WG.

[QUOTE=Mongerer88;2528169]I think a lot of guys on ISG are not familiar with the principles of Who Moved My Cheese?

In this endeavor, the cheese moves all the fucking time. The age, body style, and looks of the women we pursue never changes. But the ladies themselves live in a different environment every generation.

A guy in his 70's might possibly be having sex with the actual granddaughter of a sex worker he saw when he was in his 20's.

But the granddaughter has an entirely different way of doing business than her grandma did when grandma was in her 20's.

Adapting really angers a lot of guys on ISG. A guy jumped on a lot of my posts where I summarized escort reviews and contact information, and said the commercial sex scene belongs on the streets. Yes, the streets. The granddaughter is supposed to walk the same block that her grandma did, I guess. And if granddaughter works at an FKK, I guess she should find an old yearbook with grandma's picture in it from decades ago. The irony is that poster did a link to the locations of the street scene that was inaccurate and from a website designed to get web traffic for pop-up ads. He didn't just lead others through the mouse maze away from the cheese, he was willing to send them into danger by leading the mice to the cat (the street intersections were in bad neighborhoods).[/QUOTE]Awesome report, thank you for the feedback.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2528163]I don't know if any of you have condom advice to share but feel free to chime in. Seems like a never ending journey for me. LOL.

Stage 1 Fucking hate condoms. Why bother just stick with blowjob which is so much better.

Stage 2 Discover Japanese condoms. Okamoto 01 and 02. Really dig them but even XL is a bit tight and then I had like three break in a row. That crossed them off my list.

Stage 3 Moved to Trojan Bareskins and really like them. Quite a good feel. But Sarah says the latex gives her a rash and Layla says she's gets a UTI from latex condoms.

Stage 4 Using Skyn Elites. Like these. Non latex. Feel good but don't break. Think the Bareskins might feel a notch better. Might have to do a side by side compare with a girl that doesn't mind latex.

And avoid Durex Real Feel at all costs. They are non latex and the store was out of Skyns. I was fucking Layla the other day with one and might as well have had a condom made of football leather on. Couldn't feel a thing. Fortunately scrounged up a Skyn and finished the deed. LOL.

What's your experience?[/QUOTE]Simple. I use SKYN. Latex condoms give me irritation.

Use or don't use?? I use. I don't diss anyone that goes bareback. It does feel amazing.

Why I use "protection"? I had an SB (19 yr old college girl) in my suite one night and after showing her some BJJ (brazilian jiu jitsu), it got her all turned on due to the closeness of the guards (full guard, half guard. Any of you BJJ guys out there will know what I'm talking about), etc. She initiated. I returned the favor to see that she was already soaking wet. BBBJ was great, and at that moment, I realized that I had no condoms! I didn't think I was going to bang her that nightShe said to me, "I mean, I'm clean, so it's ok". I decided against it and just went with the BBBJ. I banged her a few times over the next month. All with condoms. She called me one day and tells me that I should go get tested bc she is positive for clym. She said that she had to call 2 other guys that both hit it raw to inform them as well. I was all good, but man, that really put it in my head to put on my seatbelt, even when taking a Sunday drive.

02.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2528079]In the USA, I do not think you get anywhere without a price. I will say with those women "My range of giving gifts has been from $ to $$ In other countries, where the women usually are not as experienced, I find I do not have to. I say "We have to figure out what our schedules are like and I prefer to talk about these things in person. " Most actually accept that and the women are much less interested in the how much question after we meet. When the women insist on a price, they are often more ho than SB types.

I like your approach Lshroomer and understand what you are saying but I just wonder if that kind of lecturing phrase on goods and services might make a woman think, "I am not going out with this guy, he is not going to give me anything. " My goal is to get the woman to meet me so I appear generous but not to commit myself to a price because so often the women show up not looking like their pics (both better and worse) or just the woman somehow turns me off. I usually know if I want the woman after the first few minutes and usually everything outside of the price is usually forgotten about once the woman and you have a face to face meeting.[/QUOTE]That's a good point. I'm sure some women have had the thought that I'm cheap. While others use that opportunity to start the compensation conversation and that's my goal, to have a conversation about how we can help each other. I prefer for the girl to spit out a number first and then negotiate from there. This has worked pretty well, especially when mentioning that I don't want anything transactional. I don't try to go cheap (I use regional averages), but I'm not looking to take the place of her employer either. LOL. I also like other approaches that I've heard in the responses, like lets discuss in person and see if we have chemistry. All good info guys. Keep it coming.

02.

I've been meeting a student after talking on SA last year. She wasn't ready for sex but wanted small allowances for just clubbing and stuff. I thought at some point she'd change. She didn’t change but she introduced me to her friend who is fine with sex. Going to meet her day after tomorrow. This is sheer luck.

Cheers!

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2528201]When a girl asks, "what do you offer?" I always say, "Let's meet first to see if there's chemistry. If there's chemistry, then we can discuss an agreement. ".

One would think that my response is reasonable, but many girls then take a pass on me. But I am okay with this, because these are exactly the types of girls that I would not have had chemistry with anyway. And for me chemistry is important in an arrangement. If and when it is not important, then that's when I see a WG.[/QUOTE]My approach is precisely the same, and for mostly the same reason (although discretion is another important factor for me, and putting anything into electronic form is permanent). If a girl wants to discuss business before we've met, it usually indicates that we won't be a good personality match, but since I already know I'm attracted and have invested time in her, I will try to get her to meet in person saying the same thing ("I prefer to discuss details in person" This also establishes your frame, which is a key dynamic with women. The pros will emphatically decline, and select themselves out naturally because they really have no interest in you on any level other than your wallet. Either way, I always end it politely. And I really don't understand why so many guys on the boards feel compelled to get into a needless and misogynous spat with the girl, ranting about "GPS", blah blah blah. A few times I've even said things like, "I'm impressed, good luck in your search and don't settle for less".

It's not a perfect approach, as I'm sure I've lost some pretty good ones over the years, but it fits my comfort level and maximizes odds of success with the girl next door types I like. And besides, with the quantity and quality of options on SA, there's just no need to pine over one particular girl.

So I don't know if it's just my part of the country but I've hit my third elaborate scam. Ok looking girl. Nothing to write home about but I'm looking for a strong kisser and girlfriend vibe. We hit it off well. Some nice chat. Take it to texting. Exchange some more pics. Chat about Netflix and dogs. You know just really engaged and make a date to meet up. She's excited. Ha.

Day of the event about 3 hrs before she needs help with rent money. We haven't even met. Sigh. Ah no.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2529008]So I don't know if it's just my part of the country but I've hit my third elaborate scam. Ok looking girl. Nothing to write home about but I'm looking for a strong kisser and girlfriend vibe. We hit it off well. Some nice chat. Take it to texting. Exchange some more pics. Chat about Netflix and dogs. You know just really engaged and make a date to meet up. She's excited. Ha.

Day of the event about 3 hrs before she needs help with rent money. We haven't even met. Sigh. Ah no.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=CarloRogue;2528965]And I really don't understand why so many guys on the boards feel compelled to get into a needless and misogynous spat with the girl, ranting about "GPS", blah blah blah. A few times I've even said things like, "I'm impressed, good luck in your search and don't settle for less".

It's not a perfect approach, as I'm sure I've lost some pretty good ones over the years, but it fits my comfort level and maximizes odds of success with the girl next door types I like. And besides, with the quantity and quality of options on SA, there's just no need to pine over one particular girl.[/QUOTE]There are time wasters on SA, that's for sure. And yeah, no need to get upset about it. Just move on. I remember this one gal who led me on and flirted with me for a couple of weeks. Finally, she sends me a message saying that she was messing with me and that she wasted my time on purpose, and that she does this to lots of guys on SA, because us SDs are all pigs and so we deserve it. Instead of getting mad, I just said "LOL, you got me. Well done. " And that was it.

About a couple weeks ago I made an account on seeking arrangements and this girl had sent me a message saying we could work something out. She told me I would get a monthly allowance and we had planned trips for him to visit. All of this is sketchy and I shouldn't have done it so please don't lecture me. I gave her my account login info (should have been my first clue) she deposited a check for $3,000 and asked me to go make money transfers for her (another red flag). I did it because the left over money would be mine to keep. The next day we did the same thing, I went and did money transfers for her and just casually talked throughout the day. Today I today up and my account is -$6000 because the checks she deposited into my account weren't cleared. I found out she did sign my name on the checks so that if fraud but I did let her into my account so that was my stupidity. I have contacted my bank but after the transactions they called me so I could confirm the deposits and I did. I also filed a report to the police and they are reviewing it so now I just wait. I know there is a big chance of me being shit out of luck but if there any other solutions I'm open to hear them.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2529227]There are time wasters on SA, that's for sure. And yeah, no need to get upset about it. Just move on. I remember this one gal who led me on and flirted with me for a couple of weeks. Finally, she sends me a message saying that she was messing with me and that she wasted my time on purpose, and that she does this to lots of guys on SA, because us SDs are all pigs and so we deserve it. Instead of getting mad, I just said "LOL, you got me. Well done. " And that was it.[/QUOTE]All the more reason why my goal on SA is to get to a face-to-face meet & greet with as little up front effort as possible. And by and large, the real girls are interested in the same. A little light banter back & forth to set the mood is ok, but I find I don't really even need that. I'm funnier and can work kino escalation in the first 30 minutes of a date without much getting-to-know-you texting in advance. There are always exceptions, but if a "girl" is dragging her feet about meeting, you are not likely to ever actually meet her in my experience. Or it's just not worth it, given all the options out there. And I put "girl" in quotes because if she doesn't want to meet you in person, you really have no idea who you are conversing with anyway.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2529227]There are time wasters on SA, that's for sure. And yeah, no need to get upset about it. Just move on. I remember this one gal who led me on and flirted with me for a couple of weeks. Finally, she sends me a message saying that she was messing with me and that she wasted my time on purpose, and that she does this to lots of guys on SA, because us SDs are all pigs and so we deserve it. Instead of getting mad, I just said "LOL, you got me. Well done. " And that was it.[/QUOTE]So yeah I don't mind the time waste. The flirty chat is fine. It's just disappointing when you are looking forward to a date that night and they kill it. There is no doubt the timing of their request because they know you are hot to trot and some guys just might pony up. For me just an annoyance and as Ariana Grande says "thank you. Next!

And just last night I hit the opposite end of the spectrum it appears. The naive babe in the woods. She didn't want to do phone too nervous about her number. And asked me to do Kik. Well red flag there. Mostly hookers on Kik. But I play along. And her Kik has her name. A really distinctive Asian name. And sure enough googling it turns up an old linked in and Facebook with a pic of her son and current Instagram. I point this out thinking it's prob a scam and she will ghost me, but just the opposite. She seems to be legit this girl and really worried about what she's done and changes her name and all.

Anyhow long story short I am 99% convinced she is just a naive girl but we meetup later this week and will find out! Never a dull moment. She's a Cambodian hottie BTW.

[QUOTE=CarloRogue;2528965]My approach is precisely the same, and for mostly the same reason (although discretion is another important factor for me, and putting anything into electronic form is permanent). If a girl wants to discuss business before we've met, it usually indicates that we won't be a good personality match, but since I already know I'm attracted and have invested time in her, I will try to get her to meet in person saying the same thing ("I prefer to discuss details in person" This also establishes your frame, which is a key dynamic with women. The pros will emphatically decline, and select themselves out naturally because they really have no interest in you on any level other than your wallet. Either way, I always end it politely. And I really don't understand why so many guys on the boards feel compelled to get into a needless and misogynous spat with the girl, ranting about "GPS", blah blah blah. A few times I've even said things like, "I'm impressed, good luck in your search and don't settle for less".

It's not a perfect approach, as I'm sure I've lost some pretty good ones over the years, but it fits my comfort level and maximizes odds of success with the girl next door types I like. And besides, with the quantity and quality of options on SA, there's just no need to pine over one particular girl.[/QUOTE]I'm not on SA now because Covid but will be getting back on after vaccinations. Only did 3 months last summer for the first time when my travels to inexpensive pussylands were shut down. I was not interested in hard core hookers either. Wanted that GFE that I often get in Latin America where I like to wife up for a few days on vacations. My first few weeks on SA got hit up by a lot of pros. You could tell because they went right to the pricing and it was always very steep. I then put in my profile "no pros" and it cut down on them quite a bit but not completely. BTW what does GPS mean?

[QUOTE=AmorPorFavor;2529294]I'm not on SA now because Covid but will be getting back on after vaccinations. Only did 3 months last summer for the first time when my travels to inexpensive pussylands were shut down. I was not interested in hard core hookers either. Wanted that GFE that I often get in Latin America where I like to wife up for a few days on vacations. My first few weeks on SA got hit up by a lot of pros. You could tell because they went right to the pricing and it was always very steep. I then put in my profile "no pros" and it cut down on them quite a bit but not completely. BTW what does GPS mean?[/QUOTE]GPS = Golden Pussy Syndrome.

LOL sounds like you found a few girls with GPS.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2529008]So I don't know if it's just my part of the country but I've hit my third elaborate scam. Ok looking girl. Nothing to write home about but I'm looking for a strong kisser and girlfriend vibe. We hit it off well. Some nice chat. Take it to texting. Exchange some more pics. Chat about Netflix and dogs. You know just really engaged and make a date to meet up. She's excited. Ha.

Day of the event about 3 hrs before she needs help with rent money. We haven't even met. Sigh. Ah no.[/QUOTE]Steve,

It is a numbers game, as you know. Over the Holidays in MTY, I totally hit the wall. I was having to work so much harder, but some good contacts came out of all my hard work. I was able to add a few girls to the team.

SA is so much more difficult in the states. As I mentioned before I thought SA would have been easy in Austin, it was way harder than Houston and same price or more expensive.

I finally got fed up and put my attention to San Antonio, totally different experience. Way more positive and cheaper. Nothing changed about me, just better location for SA. Then Covid hit and I got it, this was at the beginning so I did not know what to do, so I was out for 2-3 weeks. Out of all that mess, I rediscovered MTY, the rest is History. I am absolutely killing in MTY, totally out of controller. Good luck and keep up the great reports.

Ok men. Got a puzzler for you. Need the advice on closing this girl as an SB. She's an experienced stripper so the odds are low. But we had great chemistry and I feel there is a small chance with your help. In my last city I had a great stripper SB so I know it can be done but my luck has been tough locally.

So far I've struck out with several. I think it's a tough gig because they are married or have boyfriends and really just want to take you to the champagne room which is $200 for 15 minutes and no extras offered. Boo. The approach I've used was pretty direct but I don't think the right way. I asked if they knew about SB and probably acted too experienced and tried to get them out. Maybe too rushed and too direct and too player.

So this girl is different. First of all an amazing Latina spinner. Unlike others she is not just trying to drive me to the room. Very friendly. Very handsy. We order shots and enjoy those for a while. We chat really amicably. I tell her I don't really think the rooms are worth it and she agrees! I am not shy because I totally dig her and ask if she has a husband or boyfriend. She says neither. But she talks about her three year old boy.

I am intending to tip her when we part but after maybe 45 minutes she says she has to pee but takes her drink with her and she's gone for quite a bit and I have to leave. I don't blame her for exiting I mean she wasn't getting anything from me in her mind other than the shot. But I find her talking w her friend and give her a hug goodbye and slip her $100 and thank her for her time.

Ok so now I am set up for the long shot next time I see her. She is totally my dream girl. Amazing eyes. Dynamite smile. Killer tights body. I have a plan but want to hear from I guys first. How would you approach this? What would you say to her in what order to get her out on an SB meetup date?

Only way I would play it is straight up. Tell her you like her, thinks she is amazing. Tell her what you want. Let her respond. If she's interested she will let you know, if not, time to move on. Better to get it out of the way right up front.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2529361]Ok men. Got a puzzler for you. Need the advice on closing this girl as an SB. She's an experienced stripper so the odds are low. But we had great chemistry and I feel there is a small chance with your help. In my last city I had a great stripper SB so I know it can be done but my luck has been tough locally.

So far I've struck out with several. I think it's a tough gig because they are married or have boyfriends and really just want to take you to the champagne room which is $200 for 15 minutes and no extras offered. Boo. The approach I've used was pretty direct but I don't think the right way. I asked if they knew about SB and probably acted too experienced and tried to get them out. Maybe too rushed and too direct and too player.

So this girl is different. First of all an amazing Latina spinner. Unlike others she is not just trying to drive me to the room. Very friendly. Very handsy. We order shots and enjoy those for a while. We chat really amicably. I tell her I don't really think the rooms are worth it and she agrees! I am not shy because I totally dig her and ask if she has a husband or boyfriend. She says neither. But she talks about her three year old boy.

I am intending to tip her when we part but after maybe 45 minutes she says she has to pee but takes her drink with her and she's gone for quite a bit and I have to leave. I don't blame her for exiting I mean she wasn't getting anything from me in her mind other than the shot. But I find her talking w her friend and give her a hug goodbye and slip her $100 and thank her for her time.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2529361]Ok men. Got a puzzler for you. Need the advice on closing this girl as an SB. She's an experienced stripper so the odds are low. But we had great chemistry and I feel there is a small chance with your help. In my last city I had a great stripper SB so I know it can be done but my luck has been tough locally.

So far I've struck out with several. I think it's a tough gig because they are married or have boyfriends and really just want to take you to the champagne room which is $200 for 15 minutes and no extras offered. Boo. The approach I've used was pretty direct but I don't think the right way. I asked if they knew about SB and probably acted too experienced and tried to get them out. Maybe too rushed and too direct and too player.

So this girl is different. First of all an amazing Latina spinner. Unlike others she is not just trying to drive me to the room. Very friendly. Very handsy. We order shots and enjoy those for a while. We chat really amicably. I tell her I don't really think the rooms are worth it and she agrees! I am not shy because I totally dig her and ask if she has a husband or boyfriend. She says neither. But she talks about her three year old boy.

I am intending to tip her when we part but after maybe 45 minutes she says she has to pee but takes her drink with her and she's gone for quite a bit and I have to leave. I don't blame her for exiting I mean she wasn't getting anything from me in her mind other than the shot. But I find her talking w her friend and give her a hug goodbye and slip her $100 and thank her for her time.

Ok so now I am set up for the long shot next time I see her. She is totally my dream girl. Amazing eyes. Dynamite smile. Killer tights body. I have a plan but want to hear from I guys first. How would you approach this? What would you say to her in what order to get her out on an SB meetup date?[/QUOTE]I've struck up friendships (with benefits) with a few strippers before, both from SA and directly from the club. The latter is very difficult, as the odds are poor that they have any real interest in you other than getting your money while you're in the club, and you can't take their friendliness as any positive indication. What has worked for me is to have a casual conversation with them like they're a normal girl, as if you're at a coffee shop together. Don't mention anything about stripping and why she does it, avoid creepy sounding jokes, trying to posture like you're some kind of player, etc (cause you'll sound like every other horny, out-of-her-league guy she's ever met in the club). It's also important that you politely decline any offer for a lap dance, tell her your just there for a drink and hang out, but encourage her to find another customer if she brings it up and tell her to come back later to chat (it's her job after all). She needs to see you as different from all her other customers, but that doesn't mean you need to be flashy or over-the-top in any way. Your goal should just be to get her number so you can get her outside the club for a coffee, drink, dinner, whatever. Also, I would not have given her the cash like you did. It just makes you look like an ATM to her. It might be difficult to reframe yourself after that, to be honest.

In my experience, strippers don't conform to all the commonly held stereotypes (eg, daddy issues, drugs, etc), but I have found that a lot of them do feel a bit alienated from regular society because of their employment choice and crave some form of acceptance in "polite" society, so anything that reconnects them to that could appeal to them. This provides the angle you can use to grab her attention, especially as an established, successful older man. But for that reason, I would caution you: if you are indeed successful turning one into a FWB or SB and she's digging you, I highly recommend you wear protection and thoroughly clean up after yourself (hint).

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2529361]Ok men. Got a puzzler for you. Need the advice on closing this girl as an SB. She's an experienced stripper so the odds are low. But we had great chemistry and I feel there is a small chance with your help. In my last city I had a great stripper SB so I know it can be done but my luck has been tough locally.
[/QUOTE]I want to distinguish between American strippers and foreign ones. I am not sure whether or not foreign strippers can be good sugar babies or not. With American ones, yes, I have a ton of experience.

Thing is with American strippers, you pay them to perform. Period. If you take them to a nice restaurant or on a shopping trip, you are not buying good will. THEY earned it. Even if you saved their kid from a burning building, there is no goodwill. They earned it. They let you hang out with them.

As long as you get that Steve and do not go beyond that border, and strippers are really good at making you think she likes you and not your money, then they are great. I have had some of the best sex of my life with strippers. It is when I went beyond that boundary that I got into trouble. No allowance and pay as you go.

As far as how to get them, you just ask if they are interested in being a sugar baby. Most are. If they have not been on SA, they have heard of it. Also you do not wait for sex with them. They are strippers and are dry humping guys all day for money. Some strippers have fallen into the moral code that lap dances are okay but sex for money is not. Do not waste your time on them. You have a whole club full of other women to choose from and in my experience like 70% will fuck you as a sugar baby.

Steve, you seem to be a little enamored with this one. She is this. She is that. Maybe I should you the pics of all the stunning strippers I have banged. Your jaw would drop. Truth is after a time you are going to be sick of her. That is the thing with strippers. Eventually their bullshit will hurt more than the pleasure of their sex. That ALWAYS happens.

When all was said and done, there were two women I really missed once the SB SD thing did not work out, and they were not strippers. I have no regrets about breaking things off with any stripper. The American ones were all crazy in one way or another.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2529361]Ok men. Got a puzzler for you. Need the advice on closing this girl as an SB. She's an experienced stripper so the odds are low. But we had great chemistry and I feel there is a small chance with your help. In my last city I had a great stripper SB so I know it can be done but my luck has been tough locally.


How would you approach this? What would you say to her in what order to get her out on an SB meetup date?[/QUOTE]I've dated about a half dozen WGs and MP HJ gals. So, this is obviously not the same as dating a stripper. So, you can take this advice for what it's worth. But I think the key is to just become a familar face to them. For example, if there is a WG or HJ gal that I like, I will become a repeat customer, and every time, I am very nice to them. For WGs, maybe a drink after the deed, or have breakfast together the next day. Maybe even give them a present after a few dates. For MP HJ gals, sometimes I just cuddle with them and we have a friendly chat during our one hour together, with no HJ. . . I kid you not. Once you become a famililar to them, it can develop into a relationship naturally. But even when we are in a relationship, I gift them with money to let them know that it is a halfway real relationship but also halfway a transactional one too. WGs, strippers, HJ gals,. . . they all need affection, I think.

But if you just want to bang her outside of the club, then just be up front with her the next time you see her.

My 2 cents. Good luck, man.

Carlos and Elvis (hey isn't that a 70's sitcom or something?) and Midwestern thanks a bunch. Some great advice in there!

Maybe I won't need it. Next night I met a Cambodian hottie on SA. And it started really odd. She's new and so careful and odd baby steps of us jointly confirming we are not a scam or catfish. Now super comfortable and hoping for meetup later in the week. Feeling very confident we are on a good vector so hopefully not confessing I've been duped later. LOL.

So my stripper is on hold till I see if this ones going to fly. Stay tuned!

What a coincidence, I actually went to an MP today and had a young stunner with an amazing firm little body, and we hit if off pretty well! I got her WeChat. I texted her a few hours later, and we started chatting already. I am going to zero in on this one as a potential SB. Luckily, I know the market price of being a SD to an HJ MP gal. In Shanghai, a lot of HJ MP gals have SDs. In fact, they often compare notes to see who has the better SD, LOLOL. So, I will see her a couple of more times at her shop, and once we know each other better, then I will ask her if she has her own place where we can meet. Wish me luck, bros.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2529689]I've dated about a half dozen WGs and MP HJ gals. So, this is obviously not the same as dating a stripper. So, you can take this advice for what it's worth. But I think the key is to just become a familar face to them. For example, if there is a WG or HJ gal that I like, I will become a repeat customer, and every time, I am very nice to them. For WGs, maybe a drink after the deed, or have breakfast together the next day. Maybe even give them a present after a few dates. For MP HJ gals, sometimes I just cuddle with them and we have a friendly chat during our one hour together, with no HJ. . . I kid you not. Once you become a famililar to them, it can develop into a relationship naturally. But even when we are in a relationship, I gift them with money to let them know that it is a halfway real relationship but also halfway a transactional one too. WGs, strippers, HJ gals,. . . they all need affection, I think.

But if you just want to bang her outside of the club, then just be up front with her the next time you see her.

My 2 cents. Good luck, man.[/QUOTE]

The whole point is meeting her in person. If what she gets in person doesn't match what you packaged up online, you probably won't even get the chance to kiss her goodnight.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2529361]Ok men. Got a puzzler for you. Need the advice on closing this girl as an SB. She's an experienced stripper so the odds are low. But we had great chemistry and I feel there is a small chance with your help. In my last city I had a great stripper SB so I know it can be done but my luck has been tough locally.

So far I've struck out with several. I think it's a tough gig because they are married or have boyfriends and really just want to take you to the champagne room which is $200 for 15 minutes and no extras offered. Boo. The approach I've used was pretty direct but I don't think the right way. I asked if they knew about SB and probably acted too experienced and tried to get them out. Maybe too rushed and too direct and too player.

So this girl is different. First of all an amazing Latina spinner. Unlike others she is not just trying to drive me to the room. Very friendly. Very handsy. We order shots and enjoy those for a while. We chat really amicably. I tell her I don't really think the rooms are worth it and she agrees! I am not shy because I totally dig her and ask if she has a husband or boyfriend. She says neither. But she talks about her three year old boy.[/QUOTE]I believe in the scarcity factor. In other words, things you do not find often are valued more than what is commonly available. As a stripper, she is surrounded by players with no money or jerks that think they can use their money to buy her. Plus, she knows how to use her sexuality to manipulate and to get "easy" money. What is scarce is normal people who are gentlemen. Your generous tip shows your intention and potential. There is obviously something she like about you since she spent time with you. Why not pretend that she is not a stripper and ask if she would be interested in a normal date? You can come into the club and tip her well so that a is separate from be even though you are really paying her to spend time with you. Then you can explore if a sexual relationship is possible. If she is receptive, then a SB relationship will naturally develop. I think if she likes you enough that should be easy since it is much nicer to be treated well and to have a regular source of funds. Working in a club is a hit and miss proposition. Sometime you make a lot of money and other days you take home very little. My two cents.

Seeking Arrangements advertising is false. Seeking Arrangements claim a ratio of 5 to 1 in favor of sugar daddies. A female college of mine researched this and found that in fact men's profiles on Seeking Arrangements actually outnumbered women by about 1.5 to 2.5 times depending on which country she looked at. These businesses work by advertising a few success stories while the majority of people who join waste their time and money.

[QUOTE=TonyMontanaaO7;2530813]Seeking Arrangements advertising is false. Seeking Arrangements claim a ratio of 5 to 1 in favor of sugar daddies. A female college of mine researched this and found that in fact men's profiles on Seeking Arrangements actually outnumbered women by about 1.5 to 2.5 times depending on which country she looked at. These businesses work by advertising a few success stories while the majority of people who join waste their time and money.[/QUOTE]All of sugar baby dating sites actually advertise fake or unreal ratio just for marketing purposes.

[QUOTE=TonyMontanaaO7;2530813]Seeking Arrangements advertising is false. Seeking Arrangements claim a ratio of 5 to 1 in favor of sugar daddies. A female college of mine researched this and found that in fact men's profiles on Seeking Arrangements actually outnumbered women by about 1.5 to 2.5 times depending on which country she looked at. These businesses work by advertising a few success stories while the majority of people who join waste their time and money.[/QUOTE]It depends on where TM. I agree that around me SA is a waste of time and money. However in Mexico and Colombia the story is much different though I suspect some day it will turn like it did in the USA. The days of finding an American super model type as a SB on SA like I did in 2009 are IMO over.

[QUOTE=TonyMontanaaO7;2530813]Seeking Arrangements advertising is false. Seeking Arrangements claim a ratio of 5 to 1 in favor of sugar daddies. A female college of mine researched this and found that in fact men's profiles on Seeking Arrangements actually outnumbered women by about 1.5 to 2.5 times depending on which country she looked at. These businesses work by advertising a few success stories while the majority of people who join waste their time and money.[/QUOTE]Excellent post, you're so right. SA is a complete wasteland. No one should be on there. None of the women are real. I mean exactly zero. I'm having such a horrible time on SA that I have to make up success stories and post them here to feel better about myself. That cute Viet coed I went out with two nights ago was a complete fabrication. Just a figment of my lurid imagination. All these SB's I'm texting all day long are hackers from Serbia wanting my bank account info, but I'm still happy for the attention because I'm that lonely and it beats talking to my pet parakeet. It's a scam. Stay off the site and leave it to deluded dreamers like me. And just like Yogi said: no one goes there anymore, it's too crowded.

[QUOTE=CarloRogue;2530960]Excellent post, you're so right. SA is a complete wasteland. No one should be on there. None of the women are real. I mean exactly zero. I'm having such a horrible time on SA that I have to make up success stories and post them here to feel better about myself. That cute Viet coed I went out with two nights ago was a complete fabrication. Just a figment of my lurid imagination. All these SB's I'm texting all day long are hackers from Serbia wanting my bank account info, but I'm still happy for the attention because I'm that lonely and it beats talking to my pet parakeet. It's a scam. Stay off the site and leave it to deluded dreamers like me. And just like Yogi said: no one goes there anymore, it's too crowded.[/QUOTE]I beg to differ! .

Of course YMMV and it depends on where you are, who you are and what you are looking for.

I am 60+ and have during the last 6 years found more lovely SBs than I have time to handle. There is, as discussed here, an effort to weed out the "trash" for sure. I can admit there is a lot of non interesting girls, but to say there is nothing to find on the site, is in my opinion not true.

I live in Sweden, where legislation forbids paying for sex. Sugardating is a way passing under the LE radar mostly, maybe making it more interesting for me compared to persons living in other countries?

I have also used SA in Norway, Spain, Germany (God know why?) and Greece and always found pretty, entertaining (in all different ways) and very nice girls. Backside is the general cost, which is a lot hisgher compared to regular escorts.

[QUOTE=BlueSwede;2531060]I beg to differ!.[/QUOTE]Blue, I am not sure how good your English is or if it translates easily but Carlo was being sarcastic.

[QUOTE=CarloRogue;2530960]Excellent post, you're so right. SA is a complete wasteland. No one should be on there. None of the women are real. I mean exactly zero. I'm having such a horrible time on SA that I have to make up success stories and post them here to feel better about myself. That cute Viet coed I went out with two nights ago was a complete fabrication. Just a figment of my lurid imagination. All these SB's I'm texting all day long are hackers from Serbia wanting my bank account info, but I'm still happy for the attention because I'm that lonely and it beats talking to my pet parakeet. It's a scam. Stay off the site and leave it to deluded dreamers like me. And just like Yogi said: no one goes there anymore, it's too crowded.[/QUOTE]Too funny. I am making up my stories as well. I love SA, more stories to come. Some of these guys are same guys that go to HK with $50 and complain that they did not have a good time. SA takes hard work, money, a little luck and some game, but as I have said and many others much tougher in the states.

I am trying to upgrade my subscription on SA. Butt every time I try to pay, they suspend my acct. Tried it with multiple IDs.

Geographically I'm in India and trying to pay with US card, which works internationally. Hope that should not be the problem as I checked with the bank.

Any one faced this issue? Any suggestions / workaround.

Thanks in advance.

Cheers.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2531465]Too funny. I am making up my stories as well. I love SA, more stories to come. Some of these guys are same guys that go to HK with $50 and complain that they did not have a good time. SA takes hard work, money, a little luck and some game, but as I have said and many others much tougher in the states.[/QUOTE]The other funny part is many of these guys claim we are making up our stories. If they really knew how good it is, and many times in real life the experience is much better then we could ever explain on a post. Life is good.

SA has gotten to where the women think they can get money (compensated for their time) at the initial meeting.

I have noticed the price per month has increased, was $89 and is now $99. However if you do not auto-renew, you can get a cheaper rate of $69 if you register a new, with a different email account and use up your free messages. A pop up will then appear with the cheaper price after a couple of days of a new registration.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2531213]Blue, I am not sure how good your English is or if it translates easily but Carlo was being sarcastic.[/QUOTE]Oopps, missed that! Didn't read carefully enough! Sorry for that!

[QUOTE=NeilGeorge;2531729]SA has gotten to where the women think they can get money (compensated for their time) at the initial meeting.[/QUOTE]There are surely some. Clear sign they are not going to fuck you for a couple hundred. They are doing you a favor of self opt out!

I have given up trying to explain the appeal of SA to what seems like the majority of guys on this site. I have swapped tales and been told time and again the women only want you for one thing, money. And the women have been told we want one thing, sex. Going on SA means you are getting sex AND. For women, you are getting money AND. It is that part that makes SA or SB SD relationships so much better than just paying a working girl for a fuck.

I remember my ex fiance lecturing me on the subject. Why don't you not give a woman any money and see if she really likes you, she asked. I responded, Why don't you gain 50 pounds and see if a man really likes you? So I am tired of explaining why the SB SD / SA route works to people, because anyone who tries it knows the best experiences happen when it is not JUST money for sex.

On Dramafree's advice, I went to Monterrey, Mexico two weeks ago. This time was a repeat, and there was one woman named Nancy who just made my dick hard thinking about her. She is 20, thin, a former stripper, and has porn start talent and loves sex. When I saw her last time, she did not even ask for money. I just gave her a gift.

I started off seeing her first. She came around 11 AM. At 11:05 my cock was in her mouth. She was deep throating me, giving me the eye contact, and showing me her porno like BJ skills. She then started riding me. She is tight, perfect skin, incredible speed in the cowgirl position and then one orgasm and then another. I go into missionary with her. She is screaming, nails into my back, smacking my ass "mas rapido" she says, and we finish at the same time. After the post coital cuddle, I need some caffeine, and we head to Starbucks.

We talk some more and she shows me a video of the cartoon cat Garfield set to a James Brown song, and Nancy says with the song, "So good, so good", and it turns out that is her second favorite song.

We return to the hotel. Now I do not think I have ever met a woman hornier than me. I really do not. I was content to watch Netflix, recover, cuddle. Maybe we have sex you know another time before she goes at 5 or so.

As soon as we get back, she starts kissing me and I now learn the part of her favorite song. She looks at me, smiles, and then asks, "One more time?" Thank God to Eli Lilly for discovering Cialis because I still was all I could be. We start making out, and I get more aggressive playing with the hole other than her vagina. She moans and yells, "so good, so good". Multiple positions, multiple orgasms for her, but I hold my cum. It is now 2 PM.

I suggest we watch the Neflix show Big Mouth, highly recommended for intercoital relaxation BTW. I set the audio on English and put on Spanish subtitles. She watches. Big laughs. This is the funniest show ever per her. We get halfway through the second show and she grabs my cock and gives me this sheepish grin and asks, "One more time?

We do the "one more time", "so good so good", Netflix routine twice more. She says that she has to go and orders an Uber. I give her the money gift (she never asked for anything). She looks down at her Uber which is 15 minutes away and says, "One more time?" I use the Spanish phrase for my poor heart, tell her I am only one man, but we go at it again, and I lose it this time and cum.

And that was just the first half of my day.

I think Mary Cruz is my favorite looks wise of my three Monterrey keepers. She is a family doctor and very reserved. She has a great smile, flawless skin, and like a perfect body. When I first saw her, she had on a blazer, tube top, and gym shorts, and I proclaimed her a 10. This is the third time I see her, and the second time she is wearing a dress, and I cannot believe it. Somehow her dress shows her to have a big ass and a gut. I do not get it. Here is the rare woman who looks better out of clothes than in them.

So I try to get Mary to open up. Instead she opens up my pants. She is horny as fuck and wastes no time going down on me and dragging me to bed. Nancy is lithe, ballerina like, strong but in a slim girl kind of way. Mary is solid everywhere. She is slim but not skinny like Nancy and has obvious muscles in her back, arms, and legs. Everything about her strong: the force of her blowjob, the way she gets on top of me, even the way she orgasms, but it is a quiet strength. This is work out type fucking, and I love it. I get on top of her, and she grabs my ass and forces me in deeper with greater force, and we cum together.

She then goes from animal Mary to cute, quiet happy little Dr. Cruz. A sweet smile, head on my pecs, stroking my chest hairs. I try talking to her more. Ask questions, get one word answers and am content to leave her and me in the oxytocin fog. Ms. Mary Cruz woman of mystery.

Now I have had sex seven times?, shot my load three times, and I think there is no way I can get hard again, but Mary looks so cute and I start kissing her and Mary grabs junior and then "Boing! WTF? And Mary Cruz shows she does not want to let a load of good wood go to waste.

When Mary leaves, I am beat but smile and think to myself this is the best day of sex I have EVER had. That record lasts one day. Stay tuned for part 2.

[QUOTE=NeilGeorge;2531729]SA has gotten to where the women think they can get money (compensated for their time) at the initial meeting.[/QUOTE]Totally agree with Steve. Just avoid them. They will also say it's partly a test to see if we are really rich. After all, if we really are rich, then giving them a hundred bucks should be no big deal. But rich people don't just give out $100 bucks for a first date.

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In hindsight, I have to laugh at the difference between Maria Cruz and Nancy. Nancy would wear tight pants, walk in heels, and give off the stripper vibe. When I was out with her, men would leer and give off this "I would fuck the shit out of you if I got a chance" vibe. She would turn men into savage beasts.

Both Maria Cruz and Nancy suck cock like their getting a scuba license. Their goal in life is to fuck so hard they break a bed frame and create a hole to China but of the bed room, they are so different. Men do not leer at Maria Cruz. She reminds of my ex-wife in the sense that men come up to her like dogs, panting, and asking for a pat on the head with the question, "Am I good boy?" Men are turned into boys at Sunday school class and if Maria Cruz gives them a pat on the head and says, "You are a good boy" they would smile and run away with glee.

Maybe it is because I have seen the devil in my ex this kind of response bugs me. When men do this with Maria Cruz, I so want to say, "I just paid this 'angel' for sex, and that means you are stupid, and you are NOT a good boy" but I do not think that would even work. They would still want her approval. Maria Cruz, angel during the day and devil at night, if the men only knew.

I am glad I met these women on seeking because had I not, I am not sure I would not be intimidated. It is amazing the power they have over men and then there is Elma.

Elma was my afternoon date. She is a personal trainer and looks the part. She is like the fitness chick at your local gym: powerful, confident, feminine, and seemingly unobtainable.

I had seen Elma before and have not put her in my 3 keeper category. One could make a case she had the best body of anyone. She was not as slim as Maria Cruz but even more muscular but still in a feminine way. Unlike Maria, she had great fashion sense. She dressed to the nines and elicited her fair share of stares when walking through the hotel lobby.

We caught up on things, and we started kissing. Now I was questioning why I had not elevated her to keeper status. Eventually we went to the bed, and her BJ was just not as good as the other women: a little too much teeth. I probably should have said something but I was afraid it would dampen the mood. For sex, she insisted on a condom again. Sigh. The sex was good not great. She got on top, got off. We then did doggie, and I got off in missionary.

We played the part of SB SD and did the I missed you Te extrano part, but the truth is when I was done with her, I was ready for her to go. I think she would have gone another round. It speaks volumes to me about how great Monterrey is in that that this woman would probably be a top 100 escort in the USA and I was less than thrilled with her because my three keepers are that much better.

The other turnoff with her was that she set a price, and it was higher than the gifts I gave the other women. I felt like she was not a gift but a wage. With the other women, it was sex and with her it was just sex.

I think she was a little upset I did not see her again. I was there two more days and did not text her and she checked out my profile again.

Thing is she really got into the sex. There was passion there that does not exist in a pure P4 P situation, and I could and probably should have corrected the BJ thing.

But the SB thing is something else. Every time I have tried to correct that and say, "I feel like we have more of a hooker relationship than a SD SB one", the women react the same way: they want more money. In this case, I am sure she could find a guy who would give her more. A lot of men would die to have her on her arm. I am just not one of them.

Later that night, I got to meet Dramafree. We met at the Sonora Grill, and he was well known there. I cannot believe anyone would turn down a chance to meet him there. The waiters gave him and us VIP treatment. We compared notes, women, places, and had a great time.

Of my three keepers, the only one available was Nancy, and it turned out DF knew her. First, DF's date came and she was very pretty and classy. Nancy was supposed to arrive at 7 PM, and she got there at around 8:15 which is early by Mexican standards.

Nancy dominated my attention and soon we were swaying to the tunes that Sonora had going. I had the excellent beef tacos as did DF but Nancy had whiskey and then Tequila, a liquid dinner. It was time to go and Nancy patted her tequila glass and said to me, "One more time". So yes, she had one more shot.

My phone was dead, and Nancy got the Uber, and it was a good thing. A few minutes into the ride, she started playing with junior and then unzipped him to let him breathe. I swear she would have been given me head had I let her.

My third keeper is Florence, and she was due at 10 PM so Nancy and I went at it. She was even more wild and even more orgasmic when she was drunk which I did not think was possible.

So Florence is now in the lobby. Nancy was game to meet her and down for a threesome. I had showed Florence Nancy's picture and she liked her, but I did not know how she would react as I had not told her we would be meeting. Florence actually jumped and clapped when I mentioned a threesome or trio in espanol.

I have had awkward threesomes before but this was not like that. Hell, Nancy got me hard with a super BJ and told Florence it was her turn to take a ride. Flo got off on top and then we moved to missionary with Nancy pushing on my ass so I could go deeper into Flo with more force. I had never seen that before, and Flo was moaning with delight. I then went back to Nancy and held my cum again. I had a lot more fucking to do that night.

I mentioned to both of them going to Cancun. I asked about a time, and they were both excited to go. So I went online and booked tickets. Eventually, it came to the part where we had to put in their names. It was funny. I told Nancy to put in her name and then I went and fucked Flo. Then they switched places.

Dramafree mentioned that he could only take Nancy in doses and I knew what he meant. Thing is that I learned how to give the shiny women their objects. I put in filters for our Airbnb in Cancun and told the women to pick their place. I was surprised but they did it in less than an hour.

There was more fucking and then we did the other shiny object game of letting Flo pick out her bikini and lingerie. BTW, guys, you may want to check out [URL]shein.com[/URL]. One of my SBs showed it to me, and you can get high quality goods for $10 to $20 an item.

Flo is 32, and Nancy is 20 but she looks younger, so we decided to go with the notion that Flo is my date and Nancy is my step daughter. The girls took their parts very well. It will be interesting to see how it goes.

So we are in bed, and one girl is on one arm, and one girl is on the other. I just was thinking to myself, "How many guys ever get this in their life?" I was truly living the dream.

Still, I was not satisfied that I got enough Flo. Flo speaks okay English, and I start kissing her. I ask, "Did you think about how I fucked you last time?" She giggled and said yes. Now I start stroking her breasts. "Did you get wet thinking about meeting this time?" She said yes. I told her that I had a fantasy about her working for me in a short skirt and my flirting with her all day and then asking her to come into my office close the door, and give me dictation. She started stroking my cock. She then says in Spanish "Muy duro (very hard)". I tell her I want to fuck her again. She says "but Nancy will wake up. " I somehow wiggle my arm and chest away from Nancy and get on time of Flo. Maybe it is the forbidden nature of fucking with someone supposedly asleep but the fucking was amazing. Flo let it flow and I could hear her go off time and again.

I then look up and see Nancy playing with her pussy, and of course, she says to me, "One more time", and I lift myself off of Flo and onto Nancy. I pound away at Nancy and then we switch to Cowgirl. Nancy is riding me so hard and fast and I lose it, barely pulling out in time.

I then go back to my position of both girls with one hand on my chest and head on shoulder, and this time I go to sleep. For once, I have had enough fucking for one day.

Now you may say, "Well, Elvis, I have had a threesome before. What was so great about this?" I guess it would say it was because it was a threesome among friends. Before I went to bed with either woman, I had talked to them over coffee about their life, dreams, and values.

Sexually, that trust made it so I could go bare from one to the other which enhanced the experience. I also saw how these women respected my money and opted for an Airbnb that was not too expensive. Neither woman ever set a price or asked for money but I have been generous with my gifts. Still, Flo left that morning without asking for a dime.

So, yeah, I think it is that trust that made all the difference, and the other was the fun. That is the other part. I talked about our fun trip to Cancun, and all we were going to do and the women were so excited.

It is hard finding a good looking woman on seeking that is pleasant and great in the sack. I found two women like that, who were both bi, who both liked each other, and who both trusted me. That is a very rare occurrence. And the end result was the best night of sex I ever had in my life.

Thanks Dramafree! And thanks Seeking!

The picture below is of Elma.

Man, those were great full reports. I especially enjoyed reading about your times with Nancy.

I actually think most of us on this thread are fans of Seeking. It's just a lot of work in the states, but overall it is worth it in my honest opinion.

I am glad that I found this thread about seeking. I have chatted with DF in the past about seeking in Houston. So, I tried a few here recently but got a few flakes and gave up. But, the first time I tried seeking 2 years ago it was great, got a hot 20-year-old Latina who said she needed car payment money and she BBFS me for 2 hours at $200. I thought that was a lot at the time but looking back I see that I got a pretty good deal. You guys are right about it taking time to cultivate the playing field that is seeking. But, reading reports like the one Elvis posted gets me motivated to try again and give it more time and energy. I used to visit MTY all the time years ago and hope to return again as I love MTY beauties. Cheers fellas.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2531943]I have given up trying to explain the appeal of SA to what seems like the majority of guys on this site. I have swapped tales and been told time and again the women only want you for one thing, money. And the women have been told we want one thing, sex. Going on SA means you are getting sex AND. For women, you are getting money AND. It is that part that makes SA or SB SD relationships so much better than just paying a working girl for a fuck.

I remember my ex fiance lecturing me on the subject. Why don't you not give a woman any money and see if she really likes you, she asked. I responded, Why don't you gain 50 pounds and see if a man really likes you? So I am tired of explaining why the SB SD / SA route works to people, because anyone who tries it knows the best experiences happen when it is not JUST money for sex.

On Dramafree's advice, I went to Monterrey, Mexico two weeks ago. This time was a repeat, and there was one woman named Nancy who just made my dick hard thinking about her. She is 20, thin, a former stripper, and has porn start talent and loves sex. When I saw her last time, she did not even ask for money. I just gave her a gift.

I started off seeing her first. She came around 11 AM. At 11:05 my cock was in her mouth. She was deep throating me, giving me the eye contact, and showing me her porno like BJ skills. She then started riding me. She is tight, perfect skin, incredible speed in the cowgirl position and then one orgasm and then another. I go into missionary with her. She is screaming, nails into my back, smacking my ass "mas rapido" she says, and we finish at the same time. After the post coital cuddle, I need some caffeine, and we head to Starbucks.

We talk some more and she shows me a video of the cartoon cat Garfield set to a James Brown song, and Nancy says with the song, "So good, so good", and it turns out that is her second favorite song.

We return to the hotel. Now I do not think I have ever met a woman hornier than me. I really do not. I was content to watch Netflix, recover, cuddle. Maybe we have sex you know another time before she goes at 5 or so.

As soon as we get back, she starts kissing me and I now learn the part of her favorite song. She looks at me, smiles, and then asks, "One more time?" Thank God to Eli Lilly for discovering Cialis because I still was all I could be. We start making out, and I get more aggressive playing with the hole other than her vagina. She moans and yells, "so good, so good". Multiple positions, multiple orgasms for her, but I hold my cum. It is now 2 PM.

I suggest we watch the Neflix show Big Mouth, highly recommended for intercoital relaxation BTW. I set the audio on English and put on Spanish subtitles. She watches. Big laughs. This is the funniest show ever per her. We get halfway through the second show and she grabs my cock and gives me this sheepish grin and asks, "One more time?

We do the "one more time", "so good so good", Netflix routine twice more. She says that she has to go and orders an Uber. I give her the money gift (she never asked for anything). She looks down at her Uber which is 15 minutes away and says, "One more time?" I use the Spanish phrase for my poor heart, tell her I am only one man, but we go at it again, and I lose it this time and cum.

And that was just the first half of my day.

I think Mary Cruz is my favorite looks wise of my three Monterrey keepers. She is a family doctor and very reserved. She has a great smile, flawless skin, and like a perfect body. When I first saw her, she had on a blazer, tube top, and gym shorts, and I proclaimed her a 10. This is the third time I see her, and the second time she is wearing a dress, and I cannot believe it. Somehow her dress shows her to have a big ass and a gut. I do not get it. Here is the rare woman who looks better out of clothes than in them.

So I try to get Mary to open up. Instead she opens up my pants. She is horny as fuck and wastes no time going down on me and dragging me to bed. Nancy is lithe, ballerina like, strong but in a slim girl kind of way. Mary is solid everywhere. She is slim but not skinny like Nancy and has obvious muscles in her back, arms, and legs. Everything about her strong: the force of her blowjob, the way she gets on top of me, even the way she orgasms, but it is a quiet strength. This is work out type fucking, and I love it. I get on top of her, and she grabs my ass and forces me in deeper with greater force, and we cum together.

She then goes from animal Mary to cute, quiet happy little Dr. Cruz. A sweet smile, head on my pecs, stroking my chest hairs. I try talking to her more. Ask questions, get one word answers and am content to leave her and me in the oxytocin fog. Ms. Mary Cruz woman of mystery.

Now I have had sex seven times?, shot my load three times, and I think there is no way I can get hard again, but Mary looks so cute and I start kissing her and Mary grabs junior and then "Boing! WTF? And Mary Cruz shows she does not want to let a load of good wood go to waste.

When Mary leaves, I am beat but smile and think to myself this is the best day of sex I have EVER had. That record lasts one day. Stay tuned for part 2.[/QUOTE]Hi Elvis, I am new to SA. I see a few forum mentions of not discussing prices before meeting up and people even mention fucking or getting BBFS before even any mentions of prices. Then they give the woman a gift as they are about to leave.

Is this a normal scenario that should be cultivated, or should I just go into every initial SA meet up expecting nothing but to get to know them and have fun?

Thanks for your guidance.

Helloim.

[QUOTE=HelloIm;2533170]Hi Elvis, I am new to SA. I see a few forum mentions of not discussing prices before meeting up and people even mention fucking or getting BBFS before even any mentions of prices. Then they give the woman a gift as they are about to leave.

Is this a normal scenario that should be cultivated, or should I just go into every initial SA meet up expecting nothing but to get to know them and have fun?

Thanks for your guidance.

Helloim.[/QUOTE]My experience is predominantly US based and I prefer to discuss pricing beforehand and close in a single night if possible. It depends a bit on the girl but I've had several Seeking virgins where we haven't discussed money but they were disappointed with $300-400 on the backend. I guess they read about girls getting $1000 or something and have unrealistic expectations. I don't like that feeling of them not being satisfied with the outcome so I try to always discuss price first. This has to be done delicately. I wrote about that here but it's prob 10-20 pages back. I can repost if you like.

As far as when to close the date with sex I think that first night is always best. You have a good time and momentum. And they could get cold feet by date 2 if they are new. If your not going to close night one I try to at least have a kiss. Preferably a passionate one. Girls where I haven't closed with a passionate kiss I've not had a successful date 2. But that may be self fulfilling. If they kiss you passionately they want date 2 and if not maybe they don't. That said the current girl I'm courting we had a peck kiss close on date 1 and I thought that was it. But no she swears she wants to get it on next date. We talked extensively about what we like in bed tonight and closed the night with a video of her doing the vibrator so things look promising.

So I try to discuss money before date and close the deal first night. I know other guys are different. I think Midwestern is a platonic coffee date first date guy for example. I suppose in the end if you win her over it doesn't matter.

[QUOTE=HelloIm;2533170]Hi Elvis, I am new to SA. I see a few forum mentions of not discussing prices before meeting up and people even mention fucking or getting BBFS before even any mentions of prices. Then they give the woman a gift as they are about to leave.

Is this a normal scenario that should be cultivated, or should I just go into every initial SA meet up expecting nothing but to get to know them and have fun?

[/QUOTE]HelloIm,

Getting FS before setting a price is totally doable in countries where prostitution is legal or tolerated like Colombia or Mexico. The women or rather some women want to distinguish themselves so as not to be thought of as prostitutes.

In the USA sex prison, I never recall ever sex without a price first. Thing is I always think I talked about it before hand. It was in Colombia where I texted a woman, she said let's meet, we would meet, make out and then fuck and I was like, "We did not set a price. Damn!" This happened again and again. I saw the same thing in Mexico but in the USA, it is a no go. Sorry.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2533435]HelloIm,

Getting FS before setting a price is totally doable in countries where prostitution is legal or tolerated like Colombia or Mexico. The women or rather some women want to distinguish themselves so as not to be thought of as prostitutes.

In the USA sex prison, I never recall ever sex without a price first. Thing is I always think I talked about it before hand. It was in Colombia where I texted a woman, she said let's meet, we would meet, make out and then fuck and I was like, "We did not set a price. Damn!" This happened again and again. I saw the same thing in Mexico but in the USA, it is a no go. Sorry.[/QUOTE] Thank you for the reply. When you have sex with a woman without discussing money, then assuming you give her a gift afterwards, does the gift set the standard for how much the price for each meeting is then?

[QUOTE=HelloIm;2533598]Thank you for the reply. When you have sex with a woman without discussing money, then assuming you give her a gift afterwards, does the gift set the standard for how much the price for each meeting is then?[/QUOTE]If you're doing this in the USA, then I would follow Steve's advice.

Since we have new folks joining the group here, thought my newbie guide might help. This is primarily in the USA, though I did Argentina and UK with similar approach. And this was written for fly-in and may need adjustment for hometown game. Others who have done more pro / liberal destinations like MDE or MTY may want to augment.

So how do you do it properly? I suppose this could vary widely depending on what you are after. But I am after a girl who FEELS like a girlfriend. She's affectionate, appreciates an evening above her usual stature in life, and is able to actually enjoy herself with you. She views the allowance / gift (I. E. Money!) as a bonus. Not the only thing she is after. Any girl where I feel money is the primary motivation and she will go with anyone for a high enough price, gets kicked straight to the curb. She's got to be a girlfriend first, and benefit second.

Knowing that this is the kind of girl I want to attract (and other guys I have talked to also find this persona the most attractive) there is a set of rules you chave to play by. Understand that SA is NOT AT ALL like picking up hookers. It is much more like meeting a girl into a bar and seducing her to leave with you. It's just an online bar. Sure you need money, but you also need some distance game and you need to treat her with respect. If you do, you have a chance of closing the deal. However, the moment you disrespect her, she will be gone.

Most importantly, never discuss sex or money. These things will be implied and they will be done offline. Never discuss sex or money on SA and really never discuss sex at all. As soon as you are that explicit, the kind of girl you are after will feel disrespected and ghost you in no time flat.

So start with some light chat and flirt. Your opener should be something specific to her that you read in her profile -- not something generic. And ALWAYS end every message with a question. This prompts her to respond. If you don't ask a question, she will not take the initiative -- the conversation will just die. You have to drive it -- and you drive with questions. Get her to tell you a few things about herself -- what she likes to eat, her favorite wine, dog or cat person -- It doesn't really matter-- just something that will get her to engage a bit.

At some point you will establish that you like each other reasonably enough and one or the other will suggest to take the conversation off of SA and over to text. If she wants to take u there in the first few exchanges, she is probably a hooker. If she doesn't ask for a pic pretty early on, she is probably a hooker. (Though I have found SA virgins too shy to ask sometimes, so I offer). Often, I am the one to suggest going over to private phone text. You can keep it pretty innocuous, saying you notice she is not on often and it might be easier to connect up by text.

Once over to text, you can discuss allowance / gifts (never "her price" or "how much you charge") though some guys leave that for in person dates. Because I am a fly-in guy and want to close the deal -- I. E. Go to the room and have sex the very first night, I prefer to get this elephant out of the room before the date if possible. But again, you can't go straight here. Start first with how you see the date going.

I usually say something about going out and having an epic time and if the chemistry is right spending some private time (or intimate time or adult time -- insert your favorite euphemism -- but never say SEX! And ask if that sounds about right to them. Most often they will be down with this description -- I mean we are all on SA for a reason.

This opens the door for the pricing discussion. I usually say something like "Of course I'the want to give you a gift. Did you have something in mind?" and the negotiation is underway. As of this writing, with A LOT of searching and false starts I'the say most big cities $400 is reasonable for a pretty girl (lots will ask more) with SF and NYC more like $500. $300 is more like it for second tier cities, and I've found a few gems at $200 (though more in the 6-7 category).

Once you have established "we are going to have sex, right" -- without saying it -- and money discussion out of the way, you should be good to go. Just keep on with the flirty texts without being too frequent, clingy or annoying and then meet up at the appointed day and time. More often than not, if you are not terribly objectionable looking, have a little bit of charm, and follow the "let's get out of here" model you might use with a regular pickup, you will end up in the room with your girl and have a rocking time.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2533435]HelloIm,

Getting FS before setting a price is totally doable in countries where prostitution is legal or tolerated like Colombia or Mexico. The women or rather some women want to distinguish themselves so as not to be thought of as prostitutes.

In the USA sex prison, I never recall ever sex without a price first. Thing is I always think I talked about it before hand. It was in Colombia where I texted a woman, she said let's meet, we would meet, make out and then fuck and I was like, "We did not set a price. Damn!" This happened again and again. I saw the same thing in Mexico but in the USA, it is a no go. Sorry.[/QUOTE]I angered a guy in a post many years ago in the Barcelona thread, and he never came back, and I feel bad when that happens. There was once a cottage industry here on ISG of guys who would spend time at shopping malls in various Latin American countries and in the Philippines, meet women, and they would hang out for a few days, the guys would buy them gifts, and make a cash payment at the end. Some guys tried to pay very little at the end, and the debatable issue is whether they hurt the market for others. From the female perspective in a poor country, she is often willing to take a small change of making a large profit, including the possibility of marriage with a move to a wealthier country. You do not seem to see this same activity in Thailand, perhaps due to the difficulty of a lady who has worked in the sex industry getting a marriage visa. I think I have read that before. I agree with Elvis that "not feeling like a prostitute" can contribute to the above-described behavior. I always thought is was from early childhood trauma caused directly by the Catholic Church, but the idea of a lady wanting to immediately differentiating herself from the hordes of available low-priced sex workers in the country may be more accurate.

I patiently explained these basic economic concepts to the guy who wanted to know the best mall in Barcelona to continue his exploits, but he called me condescending when I told him he would strike out. I explained to him the best places to buy sex in Barcelona, but he was not appreciative.

Now Seeking Arrangement exists in Latin America, Barcelona, and the United States. And its online shopping aspect has replaced the cute girl working at, or roaming, the big shopping malls in Latin America who would be amenable to an arrangement. But one part of economics hasn't changed. The wealthier the country, the smaller the chance of finding a lady who will take a small chance of making a large profit, with a small chance of getting completely burned at the end. Of course the guys who would burn her at the end are not really friends to the guys who pay the supposed market price.

I just continue to disagree with anyone who thinks there are cultural differences between breeds of women. There are American women who are just as attractive as Mexican women and who will do the same things sexually. They just cost a fuck of a lot more. If Mexico were allowed to freely produce drugs and sell them worldwide, and the wealth were divided in a manner that made women in Mexico have the same income\wealth as American women, the sugar baby scene would not be as good in Mexico, nor would a connection to the United States be as attractive a characteristic for the potential Sugar Daddy.

Over the past 1.5 years, my experiences with SE have been mostly positive. It's been far more useful than any of the other 6 or so sites I've used. I've had to weed through a lot of time wasters who will likely never meet anyone and more than a few scammers, but that's not unusual and in fact much worse on other sites I've been on.

I had a very bad experience with a scammer over a year ago. I reported her, giving great detail about her actions but I never received any reply and I know she remained very active for the following year, probably scamming many other guys. It would have been nice to at least received some reply indicating why no action would be taken. Seeking claimed to take such matters seriously, yet as I said, I didn't even receive a response to my report.

[QUOTE=HelloIm;2533598]Thank you for the reply. When you have sex with a woman without discussing money, then assuming you give her a gift afterwards, does the gift set the standard for how much the price for each meeting is then?[/QUOTE]HelloIM,

You need to get out of the price mentality. A gift is just that. If the woman is truly a sugar baby, I focus my gift on their needs. Being a sugar daddy, a real one, means you are investing in the woman. With a working girl, I do not care if she spends all her money on drugs. Not my problem. With a SB, I care and give like I have a daughter. I am going to be far more liberal with money for education and health than for the latest fashions. What you will find is women will respond to this by not wanting you to give them anything, to show they are not hookers.

You often do have to wade through a sea of hookers to get a real sugar baby, but that is the fun of the hunt.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2533658]Knowing that this is the kind of girl I want to attract (and other guys I have talked to also find this persona the most attractive) there is a set of rules you to play by. Understand that SA is NOT AT ALL like picking up hookers. It is much more like meeting a girl into a bar and seducing her to leave with you. It's just an online bar. Sure you need money, but you also need some distance game and you need to treat her with respect. If you do, you have a chance of closing the deal. However, the moment you disrespect her, she will be gone.

Most importantly, never discuss sex or money. These things will be implied and they will be done offline. Never discuss sex or money on SA and really never discuss sex at all. As soon as you are that explicit, the kind of girl you are after will feel disrespected and ghost you in no time flat.

At some point you will establish that you like each other reasonably enough and one or the other will suggest to take the conversation off of SA and over to text. If she wants to take u there in the first few exchanges, she is probably a hooker. If she doesn't ask for a pic pretty early on, she is probably a hooker. (Though I have found SA virgins too shy to ask sometimes, so I offer). Often, I am the one to suggest going over to private phone text. You can keep it pretty innocuous, saying you notice she is not on often and it might be easier to connect up by text.[/QUOTE]Great guide Steve! I was so tired of guys saying all the women on SA are hookers and who have never used it. Now I think it is just more for us. You do not send photos to escorts, have to have game to pick up hookers, and not talk sex to street walkers.

Yes, we are paying for it, but maybe that criticism will grow teeth when I see a beauty queen with an average looking unemployed guy with no money.

Thank you for all your replies, especially Steve and Elvis for providing an in-depth look into my question.

Another question is, do you guys find more opportunities for BBFS from SA?

And if you do, do you find that more often if the BBFS does happen, does it tend to happen on the first date?

A bit about me, since I am new to the Seeking Arrangement subforum, I am more used to straight forward transactions with hookers. But since I am visiting countries like South America soon, I can afford (in my opinion) to hop on SA, and maybe get some pussy that way. And once again (imo), the pussy will probably be a bit higher quality.

Thank you all.

[QUOTE=HelloIm;2533816]Thank you for all your replies, especially Steve and Elvis for providing an in-depth look into my question.

Another question is, do you guys find more opportunities for BBFS from SA?

And if you do, do you find that more often if the BBFS does happen, does it tend to happen on the first date?

A bit about me, since I am new to the Seeking Arrangement subforum, I am more used to straight forward transactions with hookers. But since I am visiting countries like South America soon, I can afford (in my opinion) to hop on SA, and maybe get some pussy that way. And once again (imo), the pussy will probably be a bit higher quality.

Thank you all.[/QUOTE]Generalizations are always just that, but IMHO, BBFS is more likely with non-pros than with pros. So, yes, there are more BBFS opportunities on SA. And, and in my experience, if they are DTF, then they are down for BBFS on the first date. For pros on SA, they will likely only go for covered action.

Steve is hands down one of the best guides to using SA on this sub-forum, if not the best, especially for the USA market. But my only small caveat or lemma to Steve's recent guide for newbies is that I try to move from text to meet-and-greet as soon as possible. Any chemistry that I accomplish, or fail to accomplish, on text has not been very predictive of the eventual outcome. On many occasions, I achieved great chemistry and convo while texting, but when we met, the chemistry wasn't there. On many occasions, the convo was a dud on text, but when we met the chemistry was amazing (the latter happens a lot if we meet for a drink and then get drunk, hahaha). So, when I can get a girl's attention, I just immediately say, "let's meet to see if there's any chemistry. " A lot of times, they may feel it can be a big waste of time, because texting is so easy, but if they raise this issue then I always offer to meet them wherever and whenever they want. Just my 2 cents.

[QUOTE=HelloIm;2533816]Thank you for all your replies, especially Steve and Elvis for providing an in-depth look into my question.

Another question is, do you guys find more opportunities for BBFS from SA?

And if you do, do you find that more often if the BBFS does happen, does it tend to happen on the first date?

A bit about me, since I am new to the Seeking Arrangement subforum, I am more used to straight forward transactions with hookers. But since I am visiting countries like South America soon, I can afford (in my opinion) to hop on SA, and maybe get some pussy that way. And once again (imo), the pussy will probably be a bit higher quality.

Thank you all.[/QUOTE]So U can surely get great SA girls in South America. But it's really not necessary. What I mean is the pro and semi pro scene in Brasil and Colombia is to die for. And cheap! Whereas in the US it's hideously expensive and really the girls are nothing to write home about compared to South America (at least not for under $500+ an hour. So in the USA, Seeking is the only game in town IMO. I mean for $400 you get an 8+ for four hours or overnight. You can't touch that with hookers.

But in South American you can already get hotties for extended time very reasonably. So you don't need SA in SA! LOL. Of course it works. It's just not nearly as needed as in the USA.

[QUOTE=BlueSwede;2527717]Seeking com aka Seekingarrangement.[/QUOTE]I am confused.

Should I be going to.

[URL]Seeking.com[/URL]

Seeking Arrangements takes me to [URL]sugardaddymeet.com[/URL].

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2533832]Steve is hands down one of the best guides to using SA on this sub-forum, if not the best, especially for the USA market. But my only small caveat or lemma to Steve's recent guide for newbies is that I try to move from text to meet-and-greet as soon as possible. Any chemistry that I accomplish, or fail to accomplish, on text has not been very predictive of the eventual outcome. On many occasions, I achieved great chemistry and convo while texting, but when we met, the chemistry wasn't there. On many occasions, the convo was a dud on text, but when we met the chemistry was amazing (the latter happens a lot if we meet for a drink and then get drunk, hahaha). So, when I can get a girl's attention, I just immediately say, "let's meet to see if there's any chemistry. " A lot of times, they may feel it can be a big waste of time, because texting is so easy, but if they raise this issue then I always offer to meet them wherever and whenever they want. Just my 2 cents.[/QUOTE]Yea MW is right. Since I wrote the guide I've run into a girl or two where the text chemistry was great but the in person chemistry wasn't there and that's a bummer of course. And with Lucy Miami her text game was basically nonexistent. But in person she’s a Colombian wildcat and our 5 hours dancing and fucking were pretty spectacular! So yeah getting on a date is the only way to know.

And alcohol is KEY with newbies. I guarantee several of the deals I closed were socially lubricated. No regrets either way we both knew what we were doing but it all flows so much easier just like in real life. Actually my most recent date we had good text but mostly she's beautiful so we met up. In person she was really shy and awkward looking away, not knowing how to act. But after a good solid drink (followed by more) she lost her guard and we really had a blast. By the end she was feeding me from her plate off her fork and ended up putting her foot up on my knee to massage her calf. Clearly if we had more time this woulda been a done deal (long story) but we parted with a kiss (which she later apologized for being awkward and lame) and will hopefully seal the deal later this week.

[QUOTE=GuyBrusg1957;2533841]I am confused.

Should I be going to.

[URL]Seeking.com[/URL]

Seeking Arrangements takes me to [URL]sugardaddymeet.com[/URL].[/QUOTE]Seeking.

Seekingarrangement.

Seekingarrangements.

With dot com ending, all takes me to seeking dot com, which is the site discussed as SA.

[QUOTE=HelloIm;2533816]Another question is, do you guys find more opportunities for BBFS from SA?[/QUOTE]Yes, Steve is right. You do not seed SA in South America to get laid however you are more likely to meet a higher quality of woman with SA than a hooker.

In Monterrey, Mexico, I used SA and got six women, five were BBFS. In Colombia, there was one hooker that allowed semi bare back. She would dip it in and then out, but I could not tip enough to get hookers to do BBFS. With SA in Colombia, I eventually went bare with all the women.

The Colombian government scares the women not going bare. By the way, the plan be birth control, one pill after sex is better protection against pregnancy than condoms, is over the counter and cheap in Colombia. It is a good place to load up. That drug is levonorgestrel and you give the woman 1500 MG one time after sex. It officially lasts 3 days but unofficially lasts 5 days.

[QUOTE=HelloIm;2533816]And if you do, do you find that more often if the BBFS does happen, does it tend to happen on the first date?[/QUOTE]Most of the time but some a few women like to take their time.

So I am hopefully traveling soon and have embarked on a search. A few thoughts and or advice as I start here on a new city.

Hun and Love. I've noticed a few girls I am in contact with calling me hun or hunny or love. In the past I've associated those terms with hookers. Just based on prior experience. And maybe it doesn't even matter. But what's your experience there. Are these code words for I am a pro? Or am I reading too much into it.

Directness. Recently when I was engaging with girls and getting offers of $700 and $1000 - not kidding — I was pretty bummed. I just started casting a wider net with a pre canned message of "I'm coming to xxx on yyy and going to have dinner and drinks and more, depending on chemistry with some awesome girl. Maybe that's you? Let's chat" And got a lot of responses from very good prospects. It cut thru a bunch of the BS back and forth. I was surprised at how easy that was for an opener.

Directness 2. I had recently analyzed what my favorite SBs all have in common. So once I started texting a girl I just said it outright. That the girls I really like are all Xxx yyy zzz and love to kiss. That last one rather sexualizes the interaction and frankly it's true — if she doesn't love to kiss then she's not for me. And again surprised at how this directness works. Like pretty much everyone I had engaged to that level was like "yep that's me".

So I am continually learning!

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2536296]So I am hopefully traveling soon and have embarked on a search. A few thoughts and or advice as I start here on a new city.

Directness. Recently when I was engaging with girls and getting offers of $700 and $1000 - not kidding I was pretty bummed. I just started casting a wider net with a pre canned message of "I'm coming to xxx on yyy and going to have dinner and drinks and more, depending on chemistry with some awesome girl. Maybe that's you? Let's chat" And got a lot of responses from very good prospects. It cut thru a bunch of the BS back and forth. I was surprised at how easy that was for an opener.[/QUOTE]Steve,

That breaks my heart. You have to come meet me and Dramafree in Monterrey and I will introduce you to women who will blow your socks off for 20% of that amount. I have two very nice women I can hand off to you, and Steve, they are beautiful and they are not your typical American screwups. Monterrey is an hour and a half flight from Dallas or Houston, so I think you can hit it in almost four hours from anywhere in the USA.

I have guys I am going to meet going to Colombia in a few weeks and others wanting to go to Brazil in the summer. I hope you consider saving up and going with us.

I have a trip planned with Flo and Nancy for four days, and it is going to cost a little above that $700 to $1000 mark, and it is with two women for four days. $1000 for a meet? Fuck that place, dude.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2536429]Steve,

That breaks my heart. You have to come meet me and Dramafree in Monterrey and I will introduce you to women who will blow your socks off for 20% of that amount. I have two very nice women I can hand off to you, and Steve, they are beautiful and they are not your typical American screwups. Monterrey is an hour and a half flight from Dallas or Houston, so I think you can hit it in almost four hours from anywhere in the USA.

I have guys I am going to meet going to Colombia in a few weeks and others wanting to go to Brazil in the summer. I hope you consider saving up and going with us.

I have a trip planned with Flo and Nancy for four days, and it is going to cost a little above that $700 to $1000 mark, and it is with two women for four days. $1000 for a meet? Fuck that place, dude.[/QUOTE]Yeah kinda breaks my heart too. My buddy is in Medellin and Snapchatting me the duos he's having for $70 total. And they are HOT. Sigh. The US sucks. At least we have seeking.

I'm kinda fixated on one girl now who is super hot Colombiana bar tender and super sweet as well. For allowance she just said "we can start with something small and increase as our relationship grows. Whatever you are comfortable with I wouldn't want to impose".

Is that cool? Or is there a hammer about to fall on me? Most girls just state their price. Two have given me that sort of line. Any advice. Push on it or just deal in person after sex?

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2536614]Yeah kinda breaks my heart too. My buddy is in Medellin and Snapchatting me the duos he's having for $70 total. And they are HOT. Sigh. The US sucks. At least we have seeking.

I'm kinda fixated on one girl now who is super hot Colombiana bar tender and super sweet as well. For allowance she just said "we can start with something small and increase as our relationship grows. Whatever you are comfortable with I wouldn't want to impose".

Is that cool? Or is there a hammer about to fall on me? Most girls just state their price. Two have given me that sort of line. Any advice. Push on it or just deal in person after sex?[/QUOTE]I tried the monthly allowance thing. I think there have been three or four times in my life a woman's beauty just left me speechless. The last time I did monthly was with one of these girls. She was a mixed girl and a great lover. This was back 10 years ago, and I did something I would not today, $2000 a month.

Every second after she got that money, she was angling for more. Halfway into the month, there was just a straw that broke the camel's back, and I was like "Fuck it, I am out. " She called me back a few years later, I saw her and fucked her at her place which was very nice. She claimed to have a job and then I realized she did not. She hooked up with a guy, sucked him dry, and he put up with her longer than I did. I think they lived together, and she bought him tons of things, and then when she turned him down, he lost it and hit her, and she got him kicked out of their place. Seeing what she did with him sealed it for me, and I never saw her again. The notion that she is a victim in today's society just makes me sick. She is and was a blood sucker.

So when I told women that is why I never paid monthly, they never pushed it. People have said that paying by the month makes women feel more like working girls, and my response to that is I do not care. I am not going to be suckered like that again. Paying in advance is almost always a bad idea.

As for her offering you a lower bargain rate, that goes against the natural order as well. For women, there is less fear factor with the known and so I saw they would take less as I got to know them better. Also, usually with men, the pleasure goes down after the first and second meeting with a woman so the value is less as well. I would usually start higher and then go lower especially if the women were not performing as well.

As for a bartender, I am assuming she works here and is from Colombia. Maybe there is a female bartender that is not a flake or drunk, but I cannot recall meeting and getting to know one that is not.

My last SB found herself in that field. She is stunning but more than that she is a health nut and gives off this healthy woman, therapist vibe. So we go out to eat at some sub shop like Subway, and she is asked by staff how she is doing and she says, "Fine, how are you?" Time and again, people would go over all their problems with her for like 15 minutes even if it meant holding up the line. It was bizarre.

The real irony and one of the reasons she liked me so much is that I knew she was bipolar and I really got what that entailed. So often after one of these therapy sessions, we would head back to my place, and she would say, "Elvis, I want to kill myself. I am thinking about slashing my wrists", and I would have to soothe her and talk her out of it.

I am not sure that is what a typical female bartender is. Great listening, problem solving, sweet, chaste woman at the bar and wrist slashing sugar baby in private, but I do not think that is really so much of an exception for bartenders.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2536635]I tried the monthly allowance thing. I think there have been three or four times in my life a woman's beauty just left me speechless. The last time I did monthly was with one of these girls. She was a mixed girl and a great lover. This was back 10 years ago, and I did something I would not today, $2000 a month.

Every second after she got that money, she was angling for more. Halfway into the month, there was just a straw that broke the camel's back, and I was like "Fuck it, I am out. " She called me back a few years later, I saw her and fucked her at her place which was very nice. She claimed to have a job and then I realized she did not. She hooked up with a guy, sucked him dry, and he put up with her longer than I did. I think they lived together, and she bought him tons of things, and then when she turned him down, he lost it and hit her, and she got him kicked out of their place. Seeing what she did with him sealed it for me, and I never saw her again. The notion that she is a victim in today's society just makes me sick. She is and was a blood sucker..[/QUOTE]Lots of good observations in the last few threads, which I'll confirm from my experience. Of course, stereotypes are only held by bigots, monsters, and misanthropes in general, blah blah blah. But patterns exist nonetheless.

"Luv", "Hon": it's been observed many times that these terms are not typically used by your girl next door on the first message with a stranger.

Regular and / or advanced payments: yep, just don't do it, unless you like being taken for granted.

Bartenders: they're fun, they're social, everybody loves them, their cell phone is blowing up all day / all night. It's hard for them to keep up with all the attention, so don't take it personally when they don't get back to you right away. Or ever again.

Now of course, YMMV. But it probably won't.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2536635]I tried the monthly allowance thing. I think there have been three or four times in my life a woman's beauty just left me speechless. The last time I did monthly was with one of these girls. She was a mixed girl and a great lover. This was back 10 years ago, and I did something I would not today, $2000 a month.

Every second after she got that money, she was angling for more. Halfway into the month, there was just a straw that broke the camel's back, and I was like "Fuck it, I am out. " She called me back a few years later, I saw her and fucked her at her place which was very nice. She claimed to have a job and then I realized she did not. She hooked up with a guy, sucked him dry, and he put up with her longer than I did. I think they lived together, and she bought him tons of things, and then when she turned him down, he lost it and hit her, and she got him kicked out of their place. Seeing what she did with him sealed it for me, and I never saw her again. The notion that she is a victim in today's society just makes me sick. She is and was a blood sucker.

So when I told women that is why I never paid monthly, they never pushed it. People have said that paying by the month makes women feel more like working girls, and my response to that is I do not care. I am not going to be suckered like that again. Paying in advance is almost always a bad idea.[/QUOTE]I have also had issues with monthly allowances. Not sure I would do it again, unless I have known the girl for several months, even then probably not.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2536429]Steve,

That breaks my heart. You have to come meet me and Dramafree in Monterrey and I will introduce you to women who will blow your socks off for 20% of that amount. I have two very nice women I can hand off to you, and Steve, they are beautiful and they are not your typical American screwups. Monterrey is an hour and a half flight from Dallas or Houston, so I think you can hit it in almost four hours from anywhere in the USA.

I have guys I am going to meet going to Colombia in a few weeks and others wanting to go to Brazil in the summer. I hope you consider saving up and going with us.

I have a trip planned with Flo and Nancy for four days, and it is going to cost a little above that $700 to $1000 mark, and it is with two women for four days. $1000 for a meet? Fuck that place, dude.[/QUOTE]Yep, it would be a great time, Steve. MTY is so much fun and there are some extremely hot girls there. I am banging way better girls then I was meeting in Kiev and Colombia, not even close, but I am close to MTY and I am focusing all my resources there. The plan and the hard work is definitely working.

Elvis I hope your trip goes well.

[QUOTE=CarloRogue;2536752]Lots of good observations in the last few threads, which I'll confirm from my experience. Of course, stereotypes are only held by bigots, monsters, and misanthropes in general, blah blah blah. But patterns exist nonetheless.

"Luv", "Hon": it's been observed many times that these terms are not typically used by your girl next door on the first message with a stranger.

Regular and / or advanced payments: yep, just don't do it, unless you like being taken for granted.

Bartenders: they're fun, they're social, everybody loves them, their cell phone is blowing up all day / all night. It's hard for them to keep up with all the attention, so don't take it personally when they don't get back to you right away. Or ever again.

Now of course, YMMV. But it probably won't.[/QUOTE]MMIV — My Mileage is Varying!

We are chatting nightly and she is plenty fiirty and open. She is clearly a bar tender at where she says she is because she knows things about that you wouldn't normally know. She's not a catfish for sure. Really open with dropping a current no makeup selfie if it's relevant to the chat. And fuck she looks great even no makeup.

She seems a bit too good to be true so keeping eyes and options open. But so far just a bundle of fun (very quick witted) and very optimistic. I've found some real gems so hoping she is one.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2536905]Elvis I hope your trip goes well.[/QUOTE]Thanks, brother. If it works out, I will have to do it one more time.

[QUOTE=TonyMontanaaO7;2530813]Seeking Arrangements advertising is false. Seeking Arrangements claim a ratio of 5 to 1 in favor of sugar daddies. A female college of mine researched this and found that in fact men's profiles on Seeking Arrangements actually outnumbered women by about 1.5 to 2.5 times depending on which country she looked at. These businesses work by advertising a few success stories while the majority of people who join waste their time and money.[/QUOTE]They are running a scam.

Mongers,

I have never used SA but would like to give it a chance, however I see a problem. I do not want to put my real name into this site to get premium and they only take CC it seems. Any suggestions?

AshleyMadison and other sites have been hacked and your information can be leaked. Yea I am the nervous type. Thanks.

[QUOTE=LivingFossil;2537700]Mongers,

I have never used SA but would like to give it a chance, however I see a problem. I do not want to put my real name into this site to get premium and they only take CC it seems. Any suggestions?

AshleyMadison and other sites have been hacked and your information can be leaked. Yea I am the nervous type. Thanks.[/QUOTE]One Vanilla pre-paid VISA debit card (non-reloadable). Whatever address you use on the payment form, remember and reuse it for whenever you renew.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2536296]

Hun and Love. I've noticed a few girls I am in contact with calling me hun or hunny or love. In the past I've associated those terms with hookers. Just based on prior experience. And maybe it doesn't even matter. But what's your experience there. Are these code words for I am a pro? Or am I reading too much into it.
[/QUOTE]Usually the waitresses at the BBQ places call me Sweetheart, Hun or Love because they are trying to get more tip money out of me. I tell them, in the South we call strangers "Sir or Madam. " Sometimes I ask them if they know my name, if they are calling me their "Hun. " They usually say they call everyone that name.

For those who have been successful and happy with SA, do you put your real photo on your profile? How do you guard against people who know you seeing you?

[QUOTE=AmericanPi;2538526]For those who have been successful and happy with SA, do you put your real photo on your profile? How do you guard against people who know you seeing you?[/QUOTE]I don't have photos. It has not been an issue for me but I don't know if it will be better with photos. I do send photo via chat apps early on in the chat apps.

[QUOTE=AmericanPi;2538526]For those who have been successful and happy with SA, do you put your real photo on your profile? How do you guard against people who know you seeing you?[/QUOTE]Same as Nounce. No photo and never a problem. I mention in my profile that I will send by text or email. Seriously only ever had one or two girls out of thousands mention it. Guess it's pretty common w daddies.

P.S. Tip. If you do send a photo and are paranoid make sure it can't be reverse searched. One way to do this is take a pic of your photo on the computer screen. The pixels will be all different.

I tell them I will do Meet and Greet in daylight as Starbucks and if she likes me we proceed else I pay her Uber and drinks and bid Bye to her. Not sending any pics at all, either by chat or phone. About 3 out of 10 girls say they have to have a pic to meet me and I go on to the next girl.

I have been planning an upcoming trip to Puebla Mexico for next week. I have used SA exclusively. I have contacts for myself and 2 other buddies that we will never be able to see all of them. Each one is lovely, between the ages of 19 and 26. All will do anything we want at our hotel. I have singles set up and a couple of 3 sums set up.

I use SA here at home and abroad. Its a little expensive and requires a little work but the results are amazing.

[QUOTE=Nounce;2538608]I don't have photos. It has not been an issue for me but I don't know if it will be better with photos. I do send photo via chat apps early on in the chat apps.[/QUOTE]I only have private photos, never post a public photo.

I put a pic with a hat and dark glasses so that way its hard to ID me and its close up. That way no one really can tell who it is. Never asked a question and works everytime.

Is there a way to manipulate a photo so it still looks more or less like you but not exactly so if a friend sees it, there is plausible deniability?

Steve, Nounce. Thank you gentlemen.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2538637]Same as Nounce. No photo and never a problem. I mention in my profile that I will send by text or email. Seriously only ever had one or two girls out of thousands mention it. Guess it's pretty common w daddies.

P.S. Tip. If you do send a photo and are paranoid make sure it can't be reverse searched. One way to do this is take a pic of your photo on the computer screen. The pixels will be all different.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Bdb013;2538650]I have been planning an upcoming trip to Puebla Mexico for next week. I have used SA exclusively. I have contacts for myself and 2 other buddies that we will never be able to see all of them. Each one is lovely, between the ages of 19 and 26. All will do anything we want at our hotel. I have singles set up and a couple of 3 sums set up.

I use SA here at home and abroad. Its a little expensive and requires a little work but the results are amazing.[/QUOTE]Similar to my problem. I don't have enough days or dicks to cover them all. Planning my upcoming trip I have one girl I am totally down for and hoping we hit it off and she occupies all my nights. Nevertheless I have a hottie booked for night two just in case. And three more in the wings. I am not one of those guys to double book and then flake on a girl so I am managing expectations carefully.

And even with this abundance I see 4-5 new chicks I like come on SA daily. I chat them up and see if any displace my current roster. It's really kinda amazing how many great girls are in the big cities.

Created a free profile over 6 months ago, seldom log in. Thinking of taking the plunge.

1.) Can you pay using a pre-paid Visa gift card?

2.) Are there any introductory promo / promo codes / referral codes that might shave off just a little bit?

3.) Following local dating sites in East Asia, does SA have algorithms / flags that frown on you if you're immediately messaging girl to continue contact outside of SA onto WhatsApp / FB / tg / etc?

[QUOTE=CenTexCrash;2540222]Created a free profile over 6 months ago, seldom log in. Thinking of taking the plunge.

1.) Can you pay using a pre-paid Visa gift card?

2.) Are there any introductory promo / promo codes / referral codes that might shave off just a little bit?

3.) Following local dating sites in East Asia, does SA have algorithms / flags that frown on you if you're immediately messaging girl to continue contact outside of SA onto WhatsApp / FB / tg / etc?[/QUOTE]I was logging in a lot with a free account and they offered me an introductory deal of 25% off in a pop up window. I took it and got 3 months for $180 but the price has gone up now. I'm off SA for now until I get vaccinated. Who knows what those crazy young girls have been up to.

[QUOTE=CenTexCrash;2540222]Created a free profile over 6 months ago, seldom log in. Thinking of taking the plunge.

1.) Can you pay using a pre-paid Visa gift card?

2.) Are there any introductory promo / promo codes / referral codes that might shave off just a little bit?

3.) Following local dating sites in East Asia, does SA have algorithms / flags that frown on you if you're immediately messaging girl to continue contact outside of SA onto WhatsApp / FB / tg / etc?[/QUOTE]Yes, I have used the Vanilla One Gift card before.

I am not aware of any promotions.

No, there is no method to flag you for making contact outside of SA. I do it all the time.

[QUOTE=CenTexCrash;2540222]Created a free profile over 6 months ago, seldom log in. Thinking of taking the plunge.

1.) Can you pay using a pre-paid Visa gift card?

2.) Are there any introductory promo / promo codes / referral codes that might shave off just a little bit?

3.) Following local dating sites in East Asia, does SA have algorithms / flags that frown on you if you're immediately messaging girl to continue contact outside of SA onto WhatsApp / FB / tg / etc?[/QUOTE]From E-mail sent to me:

Hello SEEKING MEMBER!

We're celebrating St. Patrick's Day right now by offering 33% Off Your First Month of Premium!

Upgrade your relationship. Upgrade your lifestyle!

Happy St. Patrick's Day from SeekingArrangement! 🍀.

I Feel Lucky!

Offer is Valid March 12,2021 at 12:01 am PST to March 17,2021 at 11:59 pm PST. Cannot be combined with other offers, promotions or discounts. Offers subject to change without notice, are non-transferable and are not valid for cash or cash equivalent. Management reserves all rights.

4.) Do the girls have to have paid subscriptions to reply to direct messages?

[QUOTE=CenTexCrash;2540563]4.) Do the girls have to have paid subscriptions to reply to direct messages?[/QUOTE]Nope. They can buy some premium features but all girls can list and chat for free.

Well SA remains as usual like a box of chocolates. I have been super fortunate to consistently pull the truffle creams. But recently the nut clusters have been invading, lowering my batting average significantly.

My crowning disappointment of my trip was Vanessa. I found her two weeks ago. We chatted nightly. So smart. So sexy. And we agree to meetup for $500. (Big city lots of girls asking 700 and up. Yikes.) we have absolutely the most epic dinner. And she is a legit 9. 5 for me. We are so on the same page. Laugh soooo much. As we both come back from the restroom after dinner we are face to face getting ready to go and she kisses me full on the lips. A nice meaningful kiss. Literally first time ever a girl has made the first move. We go for a pedicab ride that is so fun. I pull her face to me and we kiss some more. She has her hand on my thigh. All the classic IOI tells.

So we get dropped at the hotel as prearranged with the driver. But at the elevator she balks and says she has to get up early. I am really surprised at this because we confirmed before she had cleared her night for me. Thinking quickly I say just one drink and she agrees. But in the room after two kisses of reasonable engagement and passion she says she has to go. I guess I coulda pushed harder but even after a bit more imploring she is insistent.

Long story short she thought the $500 was dinner only and never agreed to sex. Obviously this is super naive but is what it is. I dropped her a little for her trouble but we are done. I am so bummed. I was totally smitten and thought it was on and crashed And burned. Just goes to show SA is never a completely sure thing. Boo.

So the next day I grab a hooker on P411 and release the hounds. Totally lame and quick and no GFE but it took the edge off. Good to know you can still use P411 on short notice to pull a pro.

Next two nights it's a different girl (9 face 7 body) and with her it's clear sex is on the table right away. No hesitation and starts turning down the sheets and getting undressed when we hit the room. LOL. So we have sex 3 times over the next two days and you would think that was great. And the sex itself was very good. But she is soo boring and meek at the dinner table, in contrast to being quite the spicy Colombiana in bed. An she is super late both times which just puts me in a bad mood.

Anyhow the point there is I come to SA for the WHOLE girl. Not just sex. So in one case the best girl on the planet. But no sex. And the other a real meh personality but good sex. I want the whole girl dammit! Want those truffle creams. Not the nut clusters!

Beats nothing but my trip was subpar. Boo. Makes me appreciate Layla tho for all her faults it's comfortable and easy with her.

That's a great metaphor. I like that. But the real jam is when a box of Sees candies is broken out at grandma's and offered to you, do you say "oh grandma, I sure hope I pick a highly conversational girl who's a **** under the sheets"? Will grandma know you mean the truffle creams? Only one way to find out Steve.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2540781]Well SA remains as usual like a box of chocolates. I have been super fortunate to consistently pull the truffle creams. But recently the nut clusters have been invading, lowering my batting average significantly.

My crowning disappointment of my trip was Vanessa. I found her two weeks ago. We chatted nightly. So smart. So sexy. And we agree to meetup for $500. (Big city lots of girls asking 700 and up. Yikes.) we have absolutely the most epic dinner. And she is a legit 9. 5 for me. We are so on the same page. Laugh soooo much. As we both come back from the restroom after dinner we are face to face getting ready to go and she kisses me full on the lips. A nice meaningful kiss. Literally first time ever a girl has made the first move. We go for a pedicab ride that is so fun. I pull her face to me and we kiss some more. She has her hand on my thigh. All the classic IOI tells.

So we get dropped at the hotel as prearranged with the driver. But at the elevator she balks and says she has to get up early. I am really surprised at this because we confirmed before she had cleared her night for me. Thinking quickly I say just one drink and she agrees. But in the room after two kisses of reasonable engagement and passion she says she has to go. I guess I coulda pushed harder but even after a bit more imploring she is insistent.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=AmericanPi;2541241]That's a great metaphor. I like that. But the real jam is when a box of Sees candies is broken out at grandma's and offered to you, do you say "oh grandma, I sure hope I pick a highly conversational girl who's a **** under the sheets"? Will grandma know you mean the truffle creams? Only one way to find out Steve.[/QUOTE]Well if gramma wasn't on the wrong side of the grass, I would surely do just that! LOL.

So while I did have good sex with Melany I did consider my trip generally disappointing. The fail with Vanessa and Melany's flakiness just kinda put me in a sour mood. This is when having a bit of a harem, both platonic and sexual helps. Next night I just start pinging lots of girls I know.

I have three platonic SA girls that we never met but have become penpals. I lay out my girl troubles to them and they are highly sympathetic. (I listen to the ups and downs in their lives also). Really felt nice just to have some company in my down state. And I hit up Alexa (who I took to Miami last time and should have this time). She's been a little cool towards me of late; not engaging in chat. Well she dives right in and we catch up on things (I don't share girl stories with her obviously) and she says she's totally down to travel with me again any time anywhere. Was a huge ego boost and she is hot AF — legit 9 and a super fine person to boot.

Anyhow just felt so good to have a support system amongst my SA girls. Highly recommend both keeping in touch for future sex and for platonic as well — having girlfriends of any stripe is really nice.

Hey folks,

Please provide insight if anyone has subscribed using credit / debit cards issued in India. I have tried couple of times and the payment is getting declined. I have done international transactions using the same card recently. Thanks!

Almost on a whim, did a 90 day subscription with the promo sale.

Set sights on Monterrey MX, but also wrote in profile "based in Dallas but travels to Latin America, Southeast Asia, Middle East, India, Philippines. ".

I hope I'm doimg this right to have guaranteed ST dates upon arrival to each far away place.

[QUOTE=CenTexCrash;2541796]Almost on a whim, did a 90 day subscription with the promo sale.

Set sights on Monterrey MX, but also wrote in profile "based in Dallas but travels to Latin America, Southeast Asia, Middle East, India, Philippines. ".

I hope I'm doimg this right to have guaranteed ST dates upon arrival to each far away place.[/QUOTE]Not a problem at all. I do it all the time, so does Elvis. I just got back from a very successful trip to MTY.

A few days back someone here posted that they used vanilla gift cards. Best to use them.

This is from SA officially.

How can I pay without using my personal credit card?

We understand that some of our customers prefer payments by mail either because they desire discretion or aren't comfortable using a personal credit card online, however, there are still other options available:

Prepaid Visa or Mastercard: These function like gift cards and can be purchased at most major retailers with cash or credit cards.

Google Play payments via our Android app: We have an Android app that allows you to pay via Google Play. Additionally, there are usually Google Play gift cards available in most grocery stores that you can load your account with.

[QUOTE=Drogo420;2541729]Hey folks,

Please provide insight if anyone has subscribed using credit / debit cards issued in India. I have tried couple of times and the payment is getting declined. I have done international transactions using the same card recently. Thanks![/QUOTE]

This is probably me over thinking but what if mini travel bulletins backfires on me?

Say I land one girl for upcoming weekend trip to Puerto Vallarta. And I have 39 other applicants that didn't make the cut. Are those 39 runner ups going to blacklist me as that ahole that didn't take them to PV that one time?

Or nah?

[QUOTE=CenTexCrash;2541971]This is probably me over thinking but what if mini travel bulletins backfires on me?

Say I land one girl for upcoming weekend trip to Puerto Vallarta. And I have 39 other applicants that didn't make the cut. Are those 39 runner ups going to blacklist me as that ahole that didn't take them to PV that one time?

Or nah?[/QUOTE]Nah. Overthinking it. The minute you disengage on a girl in the sugar bowl, she forgets you. The hard part is keeping them engaged until you get them to show up. If they're even moderately attractive, they'll have an overflowing inbox of offers. That said, most of my experience is in major US cities, where SD's way outnumber SB's. Things might be a bit different south of the border, but I still think the flake factor of hot girls is pretty much a global characteristic. BTW, you haven't landed your PV girl until the plane lands and she's there with you. Having backup options, especially on short term travel, is a very good idea.

[QUOTE=CenTexCrash;2541971]This is probably me over thinking but what if mini travel bulletins backfires on me?

Say I land one girl for upcoming weekend trip to Puerto Vallarta. And I have 39 other applicants that didn't make the cut. Are those 39 runner ups going to blacklist me as that ahole that didn't take them to PV that one time?

Or nah?[/QUOTE]Let me put this in perspective. You have 40 women and have preferences 1 through 40. #1 agrees and then blows you off. Then she is not #1 because no #1 woman would tell you something and back out. She is not on the list.

My father told me the best way to get to know someone is to take a trip with them, and he was right. Because if I am extending my time and money to you in order for us to have fun, and you make some sorry ass excuse to not come, you are selfish, and I do not think selfish people do well in life. I know of NO sugar baby prospect I have blown off who has done well in life.

As for the other women, it sounds egotistical to think of yourself as the prize, but that really is how we should think of it. What you are saying CTC in a round about way is that the women feel degraded by being thought of as #3 or #10. Well, that is an excuse for the ones who are losers. A winner is going to prove to you that she should have been the #1 woman and not #3 or #10.

I get what you are saying. We men have been trained to think all women are special and numbering them is degrading, but you want a SB who steps up to the plate and delivers versus one who feels sorry for herself and becomes the victim.

So yeah, if #1 blows you off, then you say "Next" and #2 becomes #1. As for being offended, should you be offended at getting into Harvard after being on the wait list? Getting a scholarship to a school that has you as the last person to get one? No, you should be grateful, and that is the way the women should be. If they are not like that, they are losers, and you are better off without them.

[QUOTE=CenTexCrash;2541971]This is probably me over thinking but what if mini travel bulletins backfires on me?

Say I land one girl for upcoming weekend trip to Puerto Vallarta. And I have 39 other applicants that didn't make the cut. Are those 39 runner ups going to blacklist me as that ahole that didn't take them to PV that one time?

Or nah?[/QUOTE]Be careful not to over promise and not be able to deliver. Be as honest as you can. No need to lie too much on SA, it will eventually backfire. That is the great thing about SA you can be way more honest then normal dating.

Got a handful of girls in MTY / GDL / CDMX all asking the same question "What are you seeking on this app?"

How to be on my best behavior when saying.

I just put down $180 for 90 days on SA to seek Sugar. I am based in Texas, BUT travel to MTY (or replace with "GDL / CDMX") often. I want to make my short visits to MTY more memorable / enjoyable with a cool local gal. Instead of an allowance I do per visit. Like Tinder but girl gets propina. Cut to the chase with me and she can worry about her monthly allowance demands with some other dud.

Also do city hop trips like MTY-GDL-CDMX-Quito-Guayaquil-Lima-Buenos Aires and want dates lined up at each destination OR if going direct to Puerto Vallarta, can fly a MTY/GDL girl to hang with me at PV.

Surely these girls get DM'd by the traveling businessman / monger types for short time all the time (?)

EDIT: I feel like I just untangled myself typing this

Created a profile.

I used a green dot visa prepaid card and I never registered it.

I entered in a fake name and address.

As soon as I hit enter to submit to charge the card it said account suspended.

So where did I mess up?

I wonder if they too my money?

I don't want any of my personal information on their site.