Havana

[QUOTE=Kalifornication;1238183]"Well said", that is the best you can offer Bonesie? And, your knowledge of Cuban American trivia regarding the renting of clothing/watches, I must admit, I am quite impressed. Just curious, how did you come across this very important information? I am just amazed that you idiots claim education in Cuba is lacking?[/QUOTE]@Kalifornication what happen to been respectful? About the education in Cuba next time you are in Cuba just ask around don't ask just one or 2 person do a sort of survey ask everyone that you get a chance 2 ask to what grade did he / she get and what do they think about the education they received and the one that the students are receiving in the present. (don't just ask the jineteras or young people)

[QUOTE=Jonesie; 1238119]Well said.

Many Cubans in Cuba think that they would be paid well for the same work ethic, or none at all. Because you know all of us Americans have money trees in our yards.

By the way, did you know there are shops in Miami where Cuban American dishwashers can rent gold watches and expensive clothing for their trip home? Funniest shit I ever saw.[/QUOTE]@Jonesie I didn't know about the shops and I know a lot "dishwashers" that love going to Cuba and show off they rent cars, buy new expensive clothing buy cheap jewelry that looks expensive and take all their friends out and pay for them. And I think they are all idiots when they get back they have to bust their asses working to catch up with their bills and when you ask them where are they going next for a vacation the answer is always the same Cuba. That is something else that I think is stupid they spend many years of their lives trying to get out of the Country and when they do all they want to do is go back to Cuba. I know people that been here for years and they don't know anything outside Miami because all they do is save money to go to Cuba o and pay for their cars they love having really nice cars even if 50%+ of their salary goes to it wish is stupid.

There is a Cuban band that made a song call Johnny la Mula that I think is hilarious because there are a lot of Johnny's in Miami.

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHacdcAToIQ[/url]

PS I think we shall all agree to disagree. Or take the discussion to General Info Thread or make a Discussion Thread.

1. are you sure you are not a communist living the states cuban? (there are a lot of them here and they all express them self the way you did that's why i ask)

2. is nice to exercise your rights to free speech and expression even when you are talking against your government isn't it? in your beloved cuba you would be send to prison for life or simply kill for that.

3. miami mafia? really are you that mush of a fuc-ng close minded ignorant?

4. like i told you before there must be something wrong with cuba when even you that love it that mush will not stay there.

to the rest of you i m sorry for posting this here i know what i said in my last post but after reading this old lonely fool post i just had 2.

[quote=kalifornication; 1238110]i find it painful to read your revisionist history. i bet when you were writing this bullshit about the hard working miami mafia you did this with a most serious face. forgot about the wealth they built on the on the backs of poor cubans before their arrival / escape to the usa?

have you ever wondered how fidel castro has stayed in power for so long?

no one, other than the king of jordan, has been in the top spot for a greater period of time. the man has outlasted eight usa presidents, ten olympic games, and the return of halley's comet. and no matter what the united states government does to try to dethrone him, he's got more lives than cher has comebacks.

it's not that our american leaders haven't given it their best effort. ever since castro liberated his country from the corrupt usa- and mafia-backed batista regime, washington has tried a variety of methods to unseat him. these have included taxpayer-funded assassination attempts, invasions, blockades, embargoes, threats of nuclear annihilation, internal disruption, and biological warfare (the cia dropped a bunch of african swine fever germs over the country in 1971, forcing the cubans to destroy 500, 000 pigs).

and, something that has always seemed strange to me, there is an actual usa naval base on the island of cuba! imagine if we after defeating the british in our revolution, we then let them keep a few thousand troops and a bunch of battleships in new york harbor. weird.

president kennedy, who followed through with president eisenhower's plan to invade cuba at the bay of pigs, ordered the cia to kill castro, trying everything from a pen filled with poison ink to an exploding cigar. (no i do not get my information from maxwell smart; it's all in the church committee report from the usa congress. 1975.)

of course nothing worked. castro became stronger and the usa continued to go nuts. cuba was seen as 'the one that got away. ' it became an embarrassment to us. here we had every nation in this hemisphere in our back pocket—except those damn cubans. it looked bad. like when the whole family goes out to dinner and the one bad seed, little billy, just won't sit still and do what he is told. everyone in the place is looking at the parents and wondering just what kind of job they're doing. the appearance that they have no discipline or control is the worst humiliation. so they start whacking little billy, but forget about it—he ain't ever going to finish his peas.

that's how silly we look to the rest of the world. like we've been driven insane over this little island ninety miles from our shores. we don't feel that way about a real threat to humanity, like the one posed by the chinese government. talk about a bunch of thugs! yet we can't move fast enough to hop in bed with them. washington spent twenty-three years getting usa all worked up against the chinese—and then, suddenly, one day they're our friends. it turned out that the republicans and their corporate buddies weren't really against communist dictators—just those who wouldn't let them come in and make a buck.

and that, of course, has been castro's fatal mistake. once he took over and nationalized all the american businesses and booted the mob out of havana, he might as well have taken a seat on the san andreas fault, because the wrath of uncle sam came down on him hard, and it hasn't let up for over thirty-seven years. yet castro has survived. for that accomplishment alone, despite all his flaws (political repression, four-hour speeches, and a literacy rate of 100 percent) , you got to admire the guy.

so why do we continue to fight this leftover turkey leg from the cold war? the answer can be found by looking no further than a town called miami. it is there that a nutty bunch of cuban exiles have controlled usa foreign policy regarding this insignificant island nation. these cubans, many of whom were batista supporters and lived high on the hog while that crook ran the country, seem not to have slept a wink since they grabbed their assets and headed to florida.

and since 1960, they have insisted on pulling us into their madness. why is it that every incident of national torment that has deflated our country for the past three decades—the kennedy assassination, watergate, iran-contra, our drug abuse epidemic-the list goes on and on-we find that the cuban exiles are always present and involved? first it was lee harvey oswald's connection to the cubans in new orleans. (or was it the cuban exiles acting alone to kill kennedy, or castro ordering the assassination 'cause he just got bored with kennedy trying to bump him off? whichever theory you subscribe to, the cubans are lurking in the neighborhood.)

then on the night of june 17, 1972, three cubans—bernard barker, eugenio martinez, and virgilio gonzalez (plus americans frank sturgis and james mccord jr.) —were caught breaking into the watergate offices of the chairman of the democratic party. this covert operation eventually brought down richard nixon, so i guess there is a silver lining to that particular cuban-exile operation.

today, barker and gonzalez are considered heroes in miami's cuban community. martinez, later pardoned by ronald reagan, is the only one who feels bad. 'i did not want myself to be involved in the downfall of the president of the united states. ' oh, well, how nice of you!

when ollie north needed a cover group to run arms into nicaragua to help overthrow the government, who else could he turn to but the miami cubans? bay of pigs veterans ramon medina and rafael quintero were key managers of the air-transport company that supplied weapons to the contras. the usa-backed contra war was responsible for the deaths of thirty thousand nicarguans.

one of the big bonuses to come out of our funding of these cuban exiles was the help they gave us in bringing illegal drugs into the states, destroying families and whole sections of our cities. beginning in the early sixties, a number of cubans (who also participated in the bay of pigs invasion) began running major narcotics rings in this country. the dea found little support within the federal government to go after these cuban exiles, because they had organized themselves under the phony banner of 'freedom groups. ' in fact, most were nothing more than fronts for massive drug-smuggling operations. these same drug runners later helped to run arms to the contras.

usa based cuban terrorist organizations have been responsible for more than two hundred bombings and at least a hundred murders since castro's revolution. they have got everyone so afraid to stand up to them that i probably shouldn't even be writing this chapter. i am, after all, one of the few unarmed americans.

so why am i not worried? because these cuban exiles, for all their chest thumping and terrorism, are really a bunch of wimps. that's right. wimps.

need proof? for starters, when you don't like the oppressor in your country, you stay there and try to overthrow him. this can be done by force (american revolution, french revolution) or through peaceful means (gandhi in india or mandela in south africa). but you don't just turn tail and run like these cubans.

imagine if all the american colonists had all run to canada—and then insisted the canadians had a responsibility to overthrow the british down in the states. the sandinistas never would have freed their country from somoza if they had all been sitting on the beach in costa rica, drinking margaritas and getting rich. mandela went to prison, not to libya or london.

but the wealthy cubans scooted off to miami—and got wealthier. ninety percent of these exiles are white, while the majority of cubans. 62 percent, are black or of mixed race. the whites knew they couldn't stay in cuba because they had no support from the people. so they came here, expecting us to fight their fight for them. and, like morons, we have.

it's not that these cuban crybabies haven't tried to help themselves. but a quick look at their efforts resembles an old keystone kops movie. the bay of pigs is their best-known fiasco. it had all the elements of a great farce—wrong boats, wrong beach, no ammo for the guns, no one shows up to meet them, and, finally, they are left for dead, wandering around a part of their island completely unfamiliar to them (their limo drivers, i guess, had never taken them there in the good old days).

this embarrassment was so monumental the world still hasn't stopped laughing—and the miami cubans have never forgotten or forgiven this. say 'bay of pigs' to any of them, and you might as well be a dentist with a drill on raw, decaying nerve.

you would think that the bay of pigs defeat would have taught them a lesson, but then you would probably be projecting. you would have given up. not this crowd. since 1962, numerous cuban exile groups have attempted even more raids to 'liberate' their homeland.

let's go to the highlights reel:

in 1981, a group of miami cuban exiles landed on providenciales island in the caribbean on their way to invading cuba. their boat, the only one of four exile boats to make it out of the miami river (the other three were turned back by the coast guard due to foul weather, engine trouble, or too few life jackets) , ran aground on a reef near providenciales. stuck there on the island with no food or shelter, the miami cubans started fighting among themselves. they begged the people of miami to rescue them off the island, and after three weeks they were airlifted back to florida. the only one of their group to make it to cuban waters, geraldo fuentes, suffered an appendicitis attack while at sea and had to be helicoptered by the coast guard to guantanamo for treatment.

in 1968, a group of miami cubans learned that a polish ship was docked in the port of miami and that a cuban delegation might be aboard the freighter. from the macarthur causeway, according to the st. petersburg times, the cuban exiles fired a homemade bazooka and hit the ship's hull. it only put a nick in the ship, and the group's leader, orlando bosch, was sentenced to ten years of prison, but was released in 1972. bosch explained that they had hoped to cause more damage, but, he pleaded, 'it was a big ship! ' bosch had earlier been arrested for towing a tor**** through downtown miami during rush hour, and another time he was caught with six hundred aerial bombs loaded with dynamite in the trunk of his cadillac. in 1990, the bush administration released him from prison, where he was serving time for parole violations.

according to washington monthly, 'during the summer and early fall of 1963, five commando raids were launched against cuba in the hopes of destabilizing the regime. the negligible cuban underground was instructed to leave faucets running and light bulbs burning to waste energy. '

in 1962, according to the san francisco chronicle, cuban exile, jose basulto, on a cia-sponsored mission, fired a 20-mm cannon from a speedboat at the incan hotel next to havana bay, hoping to kill fidel castro. the shell missed, and basulto, seeing gasoline spilling all over his boat, high-tailed it back to florida. 'one of our gas tanks, made of plastic, began to leak, ' basulto explained later. 'gas ran all over the deck. we didn't know what to do. '

years later, basulto would go on to form 'brothers to the rescue, ' an exile group that for the past few years has been flying missions over cuba, buzzing cuban sites, dropping leaflets, and generally trying to intimidate the cuban government. in february 1996, castro was apparently fed up with this harassment, and after the twenty-fifth incident in the past twenty months of the brothers violating cuban air-space, he ordered that two of their planes be shot down.

even though brothers to the rescue was violating usa law by flying into cuban airspace (a fact the faa acknowledges) , the clinton administration again went to the exile trough and instantly got a bill passed to tighten the embargo against cuba. this embargo has brought the wrath of the rest of the world against us—the un general assembly voted 117 to 3 to 'condemn' the united states for its economic violence against cuba (as it has in every vote since the embargo was imposed).

the week after the planes were shot down, the exiles tried to force the hand of the usa, hoping to get the military to engage in some kind of action against castro. they announced that on the following saturday they would take a flotilla of boats from florida to just off the cuban coast, to protest the loss of the two planes. clinton decided to stage the greatest show of force against cuba since the missile crisis, and sent a squadron of f-15 fighters, eleven coast guard cutters, two navy missile cruisers, one navy frigate, two c-130 planes, and a bevy of choppers, awacs, and six hundred coast guardsmen to support the flotilla.

all he forgot to send was the dramamine—which, it turned out, was what the miami cubans really needed. just forty miles out of key west, the cubans on the boats started getting seasick, heaving up big chunks and begging their skippers to turn the damn yachts around. with the whole world watching, the cubans once again turned tail and ran. when they got back to port, they held a press conference to explain their retreat. one spokesman was still a little woozy, and you could see the journalists backing away from him, expecting any moment to be covered with a linda blair special.

'a horrible storm arose out of the sea, ' said the rapidly paling cuban exit leader. 'the waves were over ten feet high, and we had to turn back or lose our ships! ' as he spoke some creative genius working the weekend shift at cnn ran footage of the flotilla taken from the air as it headed towards cuba. the sun was shining, the sea was as smooth as glass, and the wind blew gently, if at all. reporters out at sea did say that after the cnn cameras left, the waters became 'rather rough. ' i'm sure they did.

castro has to be laughing his ass off.

— published by michael moore, april 13, 2004.[/quote]

You went and quoted Nelson Valdes to me? Dude, I knew him (and Marty Needler, and Karen Nippers-Black, etc.) when he was writing that book. I have been over to his house for dinner and spent many an evening discussing such things with him. You have no idea how he really feels about "the revolution."

And for goodness' sake, don't surf the net, find a twenty year old article you think might be mildly related to the question at hand, cut-and-paste it into a reply, and leave that unreadable "wall of words" on this board like a tunafish sandwich left for two weeks on the back seat of a car parked at an airport in Arizona during a hot summer. That's something my undergrad students used to think they could get away with until a couple of them got .

Back to my original point. During the last 50 years, Cuba has not given the world anything. Not a single movie, not a single new food item, not a single novel, not a single new medicine, not a single new invention, not a single scientific breakthrough, not a single new agricultural development, not a single accomplishment or breakthrough in art, literature, food, clothing, dance, engineering. Nothing that has impacted the world the rest of the world has lived. Where is their Dr. Zhivago? Their Citizen Kane? Their invention of the mass produced automobile, the I-pod, the internet, sushi, Bollywoood, penicillin, a cure of polio, the microchip, Tunak Tunak Tun, the Beatles, Louis Armstrong, kevlar, fiber optics. Go back in time and remove the USA, Japan, Mexico, Egypt, or Korea from the history of the last fifty years and the world would be a very different place. Remove Cuba and tell me what the world would look like.

But. Cuba hands out engineering, medical, dental, legal, architectural, and other professional degrees like we hand out light sticks at an all night rave.

There are stupid people everywhere. Like the self-hating Jew, the self-hating American looks at the hoi-poloi of his own society with disgust while idealizing the "noble savages" of some other society he feels is living up to some "higher purpose" he hasn't been able to sell his countrymen on.

Americans build things, destroy things, and then build even better things. We compete in everything we do. We didn't choose rapid socialism, because we aren't THAT stupid. And you gotta work real hard to get us to accept creeping socialism. And we will turn on con men faster than you can say "Milli Vanilli."

So, yeah, we don't want to be operated by a doctor who has only gone through some 4 year medical school, and we aren't impressed with the way Cuba can't figure out how to do what the Koreans/Singaporeans/Hong Kongeese (turn brain power into productivity, then turn productivity into an economy that creates a middle class.) Cuba is a little factory that produces jailers, political prisoners, refugees, and excuses for a shitty economy. And God bless them for it. It allows us to do what our Grandfathers did in Germany after WWII and turn nylons and candybars into blow jobs from buxomy blondes.

Gentlemen

You must realize that this Forum is in the International Sex Guide-Havana section.

It is not meant for Political rhetoric or a place for you to rant about your own political views and desires.

I suggest you find another Forum or in the alternative post under General Information.

[QUOTE=Questner;1237825]No such thing as upscale in Cuba. My suggestions are Havana Libre or Melia Cohiba. Up to 50 CUC per visit per girl guest fee.[/QUOTE]Maybe less upscale then.

How about Ambos Mundos? The one from the video posted here I think. Do they also require that kind of guest fee?

I guess I will have better luck staying in the downtown area? I can get a package deal at Club Acuario but its out at Hemingway Marina.

Do these hotels have internet access? Is internet hard to find in Cuba?

[QUOTE=Iguana Six;1238981]During the last 50 years, Cuba has not given the world anything. Not a single movie, not a single new food item, not a single novel, not a single new medicine, not a single new invention, not a single scientific breakthrough, not a single new agricultural development, not a single accomplishment or breakthrough in art, literature, food, clothing, dance, engineering. Nothing that has impacted the world the rest of the world has lived.[/QUOTE]C'mon, that's just silly. Not a single movie? Never heard of Tomás Gutiérrez Alea? Novels? Never heard of Leonardo Padura? Surely you know about Reinaldo Arenas, there was a well-received movie about his life (Before Night Falls) about 12 years ago. What about Jose Lezama Lima, or Guillermo Cabrera Infante? To be fair, Arenas and Infante went into exile; only Padura, I believe, has never directly challenged or criticized the Castro regime.

In any case the real impact of Cuban culture is in music, even a rabid old-school exile Miami-mafia type would admit that, LOL! Van Van have been touring all over the world for decades now with their high-energy brand of salsa. I just saw Chucho Valdes earlier this evening at Carnegie Hall, he's the greatest latin-jazz pianist alive today, heck he's probably the greatest jazz pianist alive period! Never heard of his group Irakere back in the 70's? When Silvio Rodriguez came to Carnegie about a year and a half ago, the audience intensity was at a level that I've never experienced in that hall before (I've seen tons of concerts of all kinds at Carnegie, classical, jazz, popular, so I feel I'm a pretty accurate judge at this). Silvio was a huge star all over South American and Latin America in his heyday back in the 70's & 80's. I feel almost silly to mention Buenavista as I have mixed feelings about the album and concept, but boy was I glad to see some of the Buenavista stars live in Havana before they kicked the bucket (Pio Leiva, Ruben Gonzalez, et al).

Not a single accomplishment in dance? Are you insane, LOL? Cubans learn to dance before they learn to walk. People all over the world want to dance salsa "Cuban-style" or the group style known as "casino." Never heard of the ballet dancer Carlos Acosta? He's a huge star, one of the top dancers for the Royal Ballet Covent Garden. The art scene I don't know but it's silly to pretend that there's not a single Cuban artist out there that doesn't have some kind of international standing. I will grant fashion and gastronomy there's probably little if anything; I think we can cut the Cubans some slack here, given the living conditions there and the kind of food / diet that's there.

The point is we should be amazed at these cultural accomplishments DESPITE the pitiful living and economic conditions, not to mention the political repression.

Now if you want to talk about STEM fields, or economics, or architecture, or medicine, that's a different story; but in case you haven't noticed, they are a deeply isolated island (more from the Castros than the US embargo by the way although it does have an impact) so it seems kind of low to pick on them for that.

In any case, it is true that Miami is saturated with Cubans that really should have just stayed on the island, but that's the fault of the first generation of exiles, and the laws and policies they support in their anti-Castro obsession (which I always thought was bizarre and unhealthy but I do understand where the hatred comes from). Most Cuban exiles nowadays that are successful do NOT go to Miami. You do realize there's a diaspora all over the world? I'm good friends with two examples. One is a young guy who left through the lottery, transferred 2 years worth of college, finished college here with a degree in comp sci, now works for IBM in the San Jose area. Another lady I once had a brief relationship with married a French guy, and lives in France now. She speaks French pretty fluently, has an advanced degree in microbiology, and after a few years, she's now doing the same kind of work she did in Havana (no, she's not an MD, but she's qualified to do diagnoses of culture slides in a clinic).

Mind you, they were part of the "educated middle class" in Havana, not the guajiros out in the countryside, or the poor trash that ends up in Miami washing dishes and parking cars. Not all Cubans are worthless trash, maybe just the ones you know, LOL.

So don't paint with such a broad brush okay? Kind of offensive dude. By the way, I'm not some lefty viva-Fidel type of guy, I just don't see the world in black-and-white like you do.

when you say "mush", what exactly do you mean?

you say: "1. are you sure you are not a communist living the states cuban? (there are a lot of them here and they all express them self the way you did that's why i ask)"

i am a marxist, but i live here in the states because this is my home. for now at least.

you say "2. is nice to exercise your rights to free speech and expression even when you are talking against your government isn't it? in your beloved cuba you would be send to prison for life or simply kill for that."

free speech and expression include the right to be critical of your own government. since my family has served the united states in all of its wars and since i am, as a matter of fact, an american, i'll continue to engage in this very american act. or would you rather silence me? as for cuba, i do not support political repression in cuba or the inability of cubans to speak freely. although i concede that some cubans regulate their own speech for fear of something, i am often surprised how freely the cubans do speak well and critically of their county.

you say "3. miami mafia? really are you that mush of a fuc-ng close minded ignorant?"

ummmmm, i do not know, maybe but:

see: luis posada carriles could be extradited to panama for allegedly plotting to kill fidel.

former cia agent luis posada carriles may have beaten charges in texas last year, but the aging anti-communist operative ain't in the clear just yet.

a panamanian lawyer requested his extradition today on charges that he plotted to kill then-cuban president fidel castro while in panama back in 2000.

carriles was controversially pardoned in 2004 by panamanian president mireya moscoso. bizarrely, moscoso met with carriles this week in miami just as a panama court upheld the sentence against the cuban.

posada carriles was acquitted of perjury and immigration charges last year in texas. documents released during the trial show that he earned $300 a month from the cia even as he fooled agents into thinking that he was under their control. in reality, he was plotting his own operations anti-castro operations.

before working for the cia, posada carriles participated in the bay of pigs invasion, was an officer in the us army, and moved to venezuela in 1976 to head american intelligence in the country. he was arrested the same year and accused of masterminding an attack on a cuban airliner that killed 76 people, but escaped before going on trial.

he was arrested again in 2001 in panama for planning to kill fidel castro with 200 pounds of dynamite and c-4 explosives. he was convicted in 2004 but pardoned by moscoso. posada carriles then made his way to the u.s.

but critics argue that moscoso's pardon was unconstitutional. the conviction was upheld on saturday, and today lawyer julio berrio petitioned the panamanian government to request posada carriles's extradition from the u.s.

meanwhile, moscoso appeared on television on tuesday and admitted that she met with the accused terrorist days before in miami. "i am proud that i let them out of jail," she said.

"i haven't reached the end of the road; the nature of the struggle has changed, but it is still the same," posada carriles said after his acquittal in texas last year.
follow miami new times on facebook and twitter @miaminewtimes. follow this journalist on twitter @mikemillermiami.



[quote=lusifer69; 1238266]1. are you sure you are not a communist living the states cuban? (there are a lot of them here and they all express them self the way you did that's why i ask)

2. is nice to exercise your rights to free speech and expression even when you are talking against your government isn't it? in your beloved cuba you would be send to prison for life or simply kill for that.

3. miami mafia? really are you that mush of a fuc-ng close minded ignorant?

4. like i told you before there must be something wrong with cuba when even you that love it that mush will not stay there.

to the rest of you i m sorry for posting this here i know what i said in my last post but after reading this old lonely fool post i just had 2.[/quote]

Finally, a voice of reason!

[QUOTE=Phunluv; 1240072]C'mon, that's just silly. Not a single movie? Never heard of Tomás Gutiérrez Alea? Novels? Never heard of Leonardo Padura? Surely you know about Reinaldo Arenas, there was a well-received movie about his life (Before Night Falls) about 12 years ago. What about Jose Lezama Lima, or Guillermo Cabrera Infante? To be fair, Arenas and Infante went into exile; only Padura, I believe, has never directly challenged or criticized the Castro regime.

In any case the real impact of Cuban culture is in music, even a rabid old-school exile Miami-mafia type would admit that, LOL! Van Van have been touring all over the world for decades now with their high-energy brand of salsa. I just saw Chucho Valdes earlier this evening at Carnegie Hall, he's the greatest latin-jazz pianist alive today, heck he's probably the greatest jazz pianist alive period! Never heard of his group Irakere back in the 70's? When Silvio Rodriguez came to Carnegie about a year and a half ago, the audience intensity was at a level that I've never experienced in that hall before (I've seen tons of concerts of all kinds at Carnegie, classical, jazz, popular, so I feel I'm a pretty accurate judge at this). Silvio was a huge star all over South American and Latin America in his heyday back in the 70's & 80's. I feel almost silly to mention Buenavista as I have mixed feelings about the album and concept, but boy was I glad to see some of the Buenavista stars live in Havana before they kicked the bucket (Pio Leiva, Ruben Gonzalez, et al).

Not a single accomplishment in dance? Are you insane, LOL? Cubans learn to dance before they learn to walk. People all over the world want to dance salsa "Cuban-style" or the group style known as "casino." Never heard of the ballet dancer Carlos Acosta? He's a huge star, one of the top dancers for the Royal Ballet Covent Garden. The art scene I don't know but it's silly to pretend that there's not a single Cuban artist out there that doesn't have some kind of international standing. I will grant fashion and gastronomy there's probably little if anything; I think we can cut the Cubans some slack here, given the living conditions there and the kind of food / diet that's there.

The point is we should be amazed at these cultural accomplishments DESPITE the pitiful living and economic conditions, not to mention the political repression.

Now if you want to talk about STEM fields, or economics, or architecture, or medicine, that's a different story; but in case you haven't noticed, they are a deeply isolated island (more from the Castros than the US embargo by the way although it does have an impact) so it seems kind of low to pick on them for that.

In any case, it is true that Miami is saturated with Cubans that really should have just stayed on the island, but that's the fault of the first generation of exiles, and the laws and policies they support in their anti-Castro obsession (which I always thought was bizarre and unhealthy but I do understand where the hatred comes from). Most Cuban exiles nowadays that are successful do NOT go to Miami. You do realize there's a diaspora all over the world? I'm good friends with two examples. One is a young guy who left through the lottery, transferred 2 years worth of college, finished college here with a degree in comp sci, now works for IBM in the San Jose area. Another lady I once had a brief relationship with married a French guy, and lives in France now. She speaks French pretty fluently, has an advanced degree in microbiology, and after a few years, she's now doing the same kind of work she did in Havana (no, she's not an MD, but she's qualified to do diagnoses of culture slides in a clinic).

Mind you, they were part of the "educated middle class" in Havana, not the guajiros out in the countryside, or the poor trash that ends up in Miami washing dishes and parking cars. Not all Cubans are worthless trash, maybe just the ones you know, LOL.

So don't paint with such a broad brush okay? Kind of offensive dude. By the way, I'm not some lefty viva-Fidel type of guy, I just don't see the world in black-and-white like you do.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Thrusting; 1240003]Maybe less upscale then.

How about Ambos Mundos? The one from the video posted here I think. Do they also require that kind of guest fee?

I guess I will have better luck staying in the downtown area? I can get a package deal at Club Acuario but its out at Hemingway Marina.

Do these hotels have internet access? Is internet hard to find in Cuba?[/QUOTE]Ambos Mundos has got a nice rooftop restaurant with a view. Hotel Inglaterra may be better choice once you have made on a decision to stay in the Old Town. Hotel NH Parque Central probably has got the best reviews quality wise.

Marina is far away and you need a taxi. Looking for upscale hotel and a package deal does not seem logical to me. If you choose Club Acuario then you need to rent a casa in addition to your hotel.

Cost of internet varies. The cheapest I have seen was 6 CUC per hour on one access card. Buy as many cards as you need per stay at first as hotels may run out of cards.

Do you think it's a good idea to go to Holguin in March? I've read some posts suggesting that Havana would be cleaned up before and after the Pope's visit. What about other places?

BTW. Kalifornication, Iguana Six, Lusifer69, Phunluv. Interesting discussion.

I'd be curious to hear the Cuban-Americans point of view on the sanctions, which I understand you guys support. I don't see any logic behind them. I come from a post-communist country, but I'd never do anything to hurt my country; communist or not.

Communism proved itself a failure, and nobody can seriously argue for it. I see that Cuba is moving away from it, and for the people in charge it's all about how to do it and stay in power.

[QUOTE=Iguana Six;1238981]Go back in time and remove the USA, Japan, Mexico, Egypt, or Korea from the history of the last fifty years and the world would be a very different place. Remove Cuba and tell me what the world would look like.[/QUOTE]No disrespect, but your argument doesn't go anywhere. Remove Japan and Germany from the history of the last eighty years, and perhaps the world would be better off with a few more Cubas instead; if you know what I mean. Everything is fluid. If a guy in Germany would not invent something someone else in Canada would; perhaps a few years later. USA is a modern day empire and removing it would make a difference, I'm not sure about other countries though (again no disrespect guys).

[QUOTE=Iguana Six;1238981]Yes, that is why Cuba is reknown for putting a man on the moon, its many patents, the many life-saving medications and treatments it has developed, its many inventions .[/QUOTE]Nobody questions that US is a great, innovative country, but things are not black and white, and US is not always on the right side (despite what TV tells you.). And perhaps if it wasn't for the sanctions, the next cancer drug would come from Cuba. Compare Cuba to other Caribbean countries, and you will notice that it's not doing badly despite having such a "great" neighbour. Again, communism = "economic disaster", and I hope that Cuba will realize its great potentials once it moves away from it.

[QUOTE=Solirobjamson;1240679]Do you think it's a good idea to go to Holguin in March?[/QUOTE]I will let you know. I will in in Camaguey next Tuesday and then maybe Holguin. I will ask. Usually I have no trouble having fun in Holguin, except during the winter season when chicas are in school.

[QUOTE=Tank Not Mt; 1239150]Gentlemen

You must realize that this Forum is in the International Sex Guide-Havana section.

It is not meant for Political rhetoric or a place for you to rant about your own political views and desires.

I suggest you find another Forum or in the alternative post under General Information.[/QUOTE]Message received. And understood.


By the way, how can one be a senior member with just 44 posts?

Senior Menber is a designation reserved for the experienced Mongers. LOL

I don't know why Jackson uses that jargon but who cares; its all in fun. Maybe its for the Spanish speaking for Mister (Senior)? Haha.

[QUOTE=Iguana Six; 1241417]Message received. And understood.

By the way, how can one be a senior member with just 44 posts?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Questner; 1240368]Ambos Mundos has got a nice rooftop restaurant with a view. Hotel Inglaterra may be better choice once you have made on a decision to stay in the Old Town. Hotel NH Parque Central probably has got the best reviews quality wise.

Marina is far away and you need a taxi. Looking for upscale hotel and a package deal does not seem logical to me. If you choose Club Acuario then you need to rent a casa in addition to your hotel.

Cost of internet varies. The cheapest I have seen was 6 CUC per hour on one access card. Buy as many cards as you need per stay at first as hotels may run out of cards.[/QUOTE]I ended up at Habana Libre. There was almost no availability at hotels in the Old Town / Vedado.

Internet is available in the room for 25 CUC / day, but its very slow.

How was the Habana Libre? Everyone tells me it is a shithole, though there were alot of German and Italian tourists there (in the Habana Libre)