Bangkok Reports

[QUOTE=DRRonin]What I have discovered is the girls set their pricing depending on where they are - they understand market rates and charge accordingly. I have one friend Aa who tells me that when she does the Nana Parking Lot she charges 1,000 - 1,500 baht, if she moves into the Nana Disco the price goes up to 2,000 and when she goes to one of the upscale discos she charges 3,000 -4,000 baht. Another friend charges 2,000 at Gullivers (around 8pm) and later when she goes to Qbar she charges 4,000 baht. So you might wonder why they even bother with the lower price locales - because sex costs them nothing and 1500 baht is 1500 baht they didn't have in the morning. Also you never know if you will get a customer later at night and you have to be crazy to walk by money offered. Many of the freelancers do a nightly run of all the places in hopes they hit the jackpot in one or more of them.[/QUOTE]My experience is that price is also a function of time of day/night. Picked 2 girls up on Sukh. At Soi 11 just off work from Nana Plaza bar. Both for 3 hrs for 1500B all in. Three shots and they wanted more but I had to sleep. Can't get back to BKK till Nov. Have to settle for 141SEX girls in HK next week. LOL!

Mr G

Didn't we have a very lengthy discussion last year about lying in Thailand?

To reiterate: Thais are liars. All of them. They are hard-wired to lie. It underpins their culture in such a way that it would collapse if they were ever to suddenly be held accountable for their lies. Lying here knows no class, practiced as it is from the highest levels of society to the lowest. People of (apparently) the highest moral calibre are just as likely to lie (perhaps, even more so), as the lowliest bargirl trickster.

Your story was quite interesting, but predictable.

[QUOTE=DRRonin]What I have discovered is the girls set their pricing depending on where they are - they understand market rates and charge accordingly. I have one friend Aa who tells me that when she does the Nana Parking Lot she charges 1,000 - 1,500 baht, if she moves into the Nana Disco the price goes up to 2,000 and when she goes to one of the upscale discos she charges 3,000 -4,000 baht. Another friend charges 2,000 at Gullivers (around 8pm) and later when she goes to Qbar she charges 4,000 baht. So you might wonder why they even bother with the lower price locales - because sex costs them nothing and 1500 baht is 1500 baht they didn't have in the morning. Also you never know if you will get a customer later at night and you have to be crazy to walk by money offered. Many of the freelancers do a nightly run of all the places in hopes they hit the jackpot in one or more of them.[/QUOTE]

When I was there in December, I took a girl from Nana parking lot to my hotel around 1am, she immediately seemed very comfortable and open with me. When we finished up, had to go out with her to the ATM to take out some money to pay. Gave her the money, I was tired. She was heading off, I asked her how far she had to go home -- she told me she was just going down to Spice disco (the one in Ambassador) to see if she could catch another customer, and even told me I should go check it out some night, another spot to find girls. Yeah so I'm sure there's a freelancer circuit -- right places to be at certain times. As we make the rounds hunting them, they make the rounds hunting us.

Giotto,

Here is my take. All we can do is generalize about the situation. The fact that this guy has been coming around looking for her confirms your opinion that he likes this girl. Now it seems on this particular day he came in unexpected and the girl might have already promised the rich guy that she would go with him. It could be that after a few days with this guy she sense he was getting serious and although it's about money she didn't want to lead him on since there are bigger fish out there like the rich guy. It could be the guy smells or he's into freaky type of sex, or he has a bad temper. Thai's don't seem to like confrontation so it might be her way of letting him know that she no longer interested or that she has another customer line up today. Whatever the reason good or bad this was her way!

In the end, she did the guy a favor! as for all Thai's being liar's. I don't think they look at it the same way we do. To them it's a white lie or stretching the truth, or saving face for themselves. As OTH, said they do it so often that it's enbedded into their lives and culture and they don't even know that they are doing something wrong and if you ever pointed it out to them you would be in hot water!

LBM

I have been living abroad now for 15+ years in 4 different Countries working on my own and from my experience Giotto is "almost" right. You should not trust anyone in any country but especially in countries poorer than yours because people will be more inclined to cheat somebody that they think is way richer than them. Having said that, let me tell one personal story.

In 1992, first trip to LOS. Meet gorgeous girl in Pattaya. Gorgeous means farangs jaw-dropping in the street, Thai people shaking my hands congratulating "Nice lady Sir! ", US marines filming her with their big S-VHS recorders on Walking street. Sweet and fluent in English. Young and sex-loving.

So we spend a wonderful week together.

Now I was young and stupid, so once back to Italy I buy and send her a pre-paid ticket to Rome that cost me a good chunk of my salary. Her sister had married a Norwegian so it was also a good chance to meet her sister during the trip. We exchange letters (no internet or cellphones), the day of the flight arrives. And she calls me saying she will not come. Several months pass and she writes once or twice asking me to forgive her. Then I go again to Pattaya, I write I will be in her gogobar ("Fire and Ice", for all you old masters) on day x just to meet her. I sit down, she is not there. "Of course" I think. Two minutes later, two arms around my waist. She is there. We hug and kiss and talk, and ten minutes later she gives me back the ticket and says "See, I did not sell it! ". So I got it back and got also the money back from the airline once in Rome.

She never came to Italy, too afraid, she said. Maybe scared by her sister and her tales about Norwegian weather.

I also have another couple of stories like this that happened more recently, but to make it short: sometimes, but very, very rarely, you will find a person like her in any country, even in los. In that case you may or may not trust her but you should not trust yourself! I mean, goodness me, buy an expensive prepaid ticket (which is cash, more or less) to an almost unknown bar-girl half a world away? How stupid I was? If she had asked me for money I would have sent money, no doubt!

In a nutshell, keep open your eyes, prepare for the worse (especially abroad), but wherever you are your worst enemy is ALWAYS yourself.

Just my 2 eurocents.

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[QUOTE=Marstop]My experience is that price is also a function of time of day/night. [/QUOTE]

That's a very accurate assessment. The same girl can give different punters wildly different prices over the course of the evening, or give the same punter different prices, depending on the hour.

In Baccara on Soi Cowboy, one of the top girls quoted me around 8 p.m. a price of 4,000 baht for S/T. I said no, she finished in her LD in a swallow and left me. No further discussion or attempts at persuasion from her side as she obviously figured she had several hours in which to hook a top-payer.

I exited soon after myself but came back around 12.30 a.m. to see if a farang friend was there. The same BG approached me again and immediately offered to go with me for 3,000 S/T, then 3,000 L/T, and finally 2,000 L/T. I said no because I saw "STARFISH" tattooed on her forehead, but that was her bottom line.

It's about the same routine in Nana Car Park. Right at 1.30 a.m., when the BGs who haven't found customers (or are coming back for the second or third of the night) are on the hunt, the good-looking ones will start at 3,000 S/T, take it or leave it. If they're still around 30 or 60 minutes later and see you again, the price will come down. However, you'll have to be exxtremely lucky to find a decent girl for less than 1,000 baht S/T.

It has very little to do with the punter's bargaining skills. It hangs to some degree on his appearance and age, if he's going to take her to after-hours club or straight back to his hotel, etc. Sometimes girls are happy to get an older punter because they figure he'll be least work in the shortest time. Other times they're in the mood for a younger guy who'll take them dancing first. But mostly it hangs on how badly she needs money. That can vary considerably from day to day.

Evil

E.P.

This is exactly the reason why when I'm in BKK, and as always on a budget I let the Big Head do the thinking instead of LBM. In my short visits, I make a visit to Tulip, and get that oily and that 5 star service to tired LBM out. That way when I go out later that evening for the hunt, if I find a freelancer for the price I want that is all extra's and if it doesn't happen I just go to bed alone. Just having to negotiate the price kills my mood and to make sure I don't get a starfish I always make they know what is expected of them if they agree on the price.

Mongering sometimes is alot of work! LBM

[QUOTE=LittleBigMan]as for all Thai's being liar's. I don't think they look at it the same way we do. To them it's a white lie or stretching the truth, or saving face for themselves. As OTH, said they do it so often that it's enbedded into their lives and culture and they don't even know that they are doing something wrong and if you ever pointed it out to them you would be in hot water!LBM[/QUOTE]

While your assessment, re: white lies is largely the case on a day to day basis, Thais are also often guilty of some of the most blatant and damaging lies, that one can imagine to the point of, in the case of business, out and out fraud.

I have been the victim of little white lies, and big lies from girls, of course and from other Thais, incredible dishonesty in work situations and most recently, in what amounts to a case of blatant fraud. Without boring people with the details, I found out that my current contract, (written only in Thai BTW, without any translation), which I was assured was merely the details of my original English contract transferred to the official government university contract is in fact completely different. In case anybody suggests, that I should have had the contract checked, I wasn't given any time to do this. If I had delayed signing it in order to have it verified, I would have been in ewmployment limbo without salary. The result of all of this is that they tried to more than double my workload, not pay for my work permit or health insurance and impose a host of other terms not originally part of my employment agreement - this from the #1 university in the country, the so-called "Royal University", where one would at least hope for some semblance of honourable behaviour. Fortunately, they quickly backed down when I hired a labour lawyer and threatened to sue them for fraud and misrepresentation.

I'm often condemned on here for making generalizations about Thais, calling them scum etc. But, the fact is that most of you have relatively little real experience in dealing with Thais and therefore don't know the depths to which they will go to fuck people over. And, BTW, they do it just as much to each other.

Giotto is totally correct. You cannot trust Thais in any way, shape or form.

[QUOTE=Irjle]...
I sit down, she is not there. "Of course" I think. Two minutes later, two arms around my waist. She is there. We hug and kiss and talk, and ten minutes later she gives me back the ticket and says "See, I did not sell it! ". So I got it back and got also the money back from the airline once in Rome.
...
[/QUOTE]Irjle,

Good story, and I have experienced lots of stories like this, too.

That is the dangerous impression we get sometimes - there are some good people out there, and we can trust... . And though I know that it is a generalization I would stick to my opinion, that in case that things get difficult in a life of a Thai, financial problems occure, family members are sick - even those often mentioned good people will suddenly turn into the opposite and create nightmares for you.

Another example (happened 2 - 3 months ago):

- A Dutch business man running his business for 28 years with a Thai partner came to the office one morning and found that his partner had decided to leave - together with all deposits of the companies bank accounts (Millions, as he told me) . After 28 years of building that business, working together - this Dutch guy really trusted his partner! The Dutch guy is completely ruined, the company bankrupt, and he is leaving the country now.

Do not trust! Do not do it!


Giotto

Problem is that this lying thing is not just a Thai phenomenon; it seems to be endemic throughout the region. Filipino’s love to tell the most complicated and convoluted porkies when the truth would be infinitely less complicated. Maybe it’s a cultural thing in that the process of lying is not censured in childhood and does not have the stigma that still exists (although much reduced) in the west. So no guilt trip

I’ve always maintained it easy to tell if a Filipina bargirl is lying – her lips are moving and sounds are emerging:). This obviously applies just as forcibly to Thai’s and seemingly not to just bar workers.

I agree with the various location/time of the day information in this thread. In more upscale discos, you find often the same (type of) girls you can get for 1000 ST in Biergarden or Nana Disco, with long dresses. Sometimes, there are also occasional freelancers who have a regular job and wouldn't go to Biergarden, Nana Disco or parking lot. That's the only (valuable) difference to me.

For me, the best hunting ground was Sukhumvit/Nana aera after closing time. Lots of girls from bars, Go-Gos and massage shops around waiting for a last chance to get a customer. No barfine and no price problem!

PS. Just to remind some fundamentals about Thailand. A young employee with an bachelor's degree in managements from an average university makes 8-12 000/month, a clothes seller in Prathunam 6-10 000 depending on commission, a fast-food employee doesn't makes more than 30 bath/hour...

OTH,

Your larger opinion is right, I was only touching the surface. Without going into details in the short time that I have been here I have experience what you just described and more. Much more than I ever care to experience! I didn't retired early to have to go through the bullshit that I have been throught. Although, I learn the hardway and I am much more cautious now but I refuse to believe that every Thai are liar's. As you noted I'm more concern with the lie's that are related to business and outright fraud. As I noted earlier this includes govenment officials, police, lawyers, contractor's, etc... that I have taken the attitude " buyer beware in Thailand " and if you are in a jam don't expect the legal system to help you. I don't express my outrage in front of my wife because I don't want her to think I hate every Thai and I don't let her know how I'm going about getting back to those that have wrong me. Instead of paying lawyers I use my money wisely. I rather pay those who can take care of the problem quickly the only way Thai understand and still have money left to get laid!

LBM

Wow

I was (with my wife) in Bangkok on August 19!

One year ago I went manny times to Bangkok and had a lot of drinking/gogobar fun.

Almost no happy hour beers any more in Soi Cowboy (if they have a few people inside they don't show the happy hour 6. 30-8. 30 boards any more). So you have to pay at least 90 bath but in most cases 120 bath to get a little beer or a softdrink.

I went to Baccara and the (renewed) Spice Girls. Almost fell in sleep so dull the dancers are and in Spice Girls all girls seam to be fat so you cannot see a pussy watching from behind under the skirts (they don't wear panties).

Better head to Pattaya now where you can see naked pussies and take bears for 40-55 bath whole night (even with free food in soy 14 at a gogo bar named something with dolls).

Other reports mention 1000bath for having a girl.

Maybe that is for short time and if you are a little younger.

If you get above 50 they see dollars in their eyes and prices are 2000 at the famous sukhimvit (soi 5 or 7? ) beerbar and 4000 at bars (all in- long time) and most are way above 25. In Pattaya still 21-23 year ald gems can be found at 2000bath all in long time at soy 6 and at beerbars the older type woman (which you get in Bangkok) for 1000 bath all in long time.

So just head to Pattaya if you care about fun and money. (so also give Hua Hin a big miss)

[QUOTE=Old Thai Hand] You cannot trust Thais in any way, shape or form.[/QUOTE]
This is the best advice for anyone wishing to visit or stay in Thailand!

From a monger's POV, what should we most be concerned about?