Bangkok Reports

I agree with you and DRRonin's excellent analysis. Rising prosperity is changing the scene all over the world but Thailand seems to be moving faster than other countries. I was literally stunned to see massive vaporization of FLs. Perhaps some have moved to cyberspace but at this rate, BKK will begin to resemble developed countries scene.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1652031]Very good analysis. Yes, increasing salaries in Thailand over the past 10 years is a big part of it. I think bigger than the police issue. A gal can now support herself without having to "supplement" that income. I miss the "semi-pros" of 10-15 years ago. Gals who worked and office job and came out a few times a month to make a little extra. They always seemed to make a good time of it and were selective and for the most part horny as hamsters; a far cry from most full time FLs today. And those that are bright and can speak and write a little English are working the net and the high dollar hotel discos. So what are we left with on the street and the lower end venues? Gals that are either not smart enough to get a "legit" job or those that are just plain lazy and prefer the lifestyle of a parasite. Neither option is that attractive and it is a trend that will not reverse itself. In just a few short years the scene here will resemble what you have in most developed nations. Very high end and very low end and nothing in the middle. The middle was the bread and butter for many of us for years. Sad to see it go.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Syzygies;1652112]I really don't agree with these so called great salaries. Seems to be a recurring theme.

Oh yes it has risen, ha ha, with what sort of lifestyle? The average Thai wages per month has reached just over 13,000 baht from just over 6000 baht 10 years ago. Ichecked the official figures. Consumer price index for the real basics has not increased quite that much. However modern girls buy expensive gadgets like iphones, Galaxys, tablets, etc. In old days very few would dream of using that sort of money.

I rent a small apartment now well out from the expensive areas. Its still over 10 K per month including the electricity bill. Who could survive on a 13 K salary? I went to Tesco with Mrs. The other day and she stocked up on a few bottles of soaps, shampoos, lotions etc. I still got a bad shock when my shopping bill was over 3 K. I was able to carry these goods home by hand, so not such a massive amount by weight. This is for Thai goods, not imported. However, price of petrol (gas for Americans) is very high here compared to USA, so cost of transporting goods is very high.

Is it as easy for a sex worker to make double what they could 10 years ago. Perhaps not. Perhaps the possibility that sex work is becoming less lucrative (for very average girls) could be a bigger issue, making other normal work pay seem a little more competitive. I do know some special girls that are very busy making big money but it surely is not the norm. I know plenty that are struggling, but still forced to do it when their other work just had no customers.

Take a hot sex worker that I know who makes well over 100 K per month. Compare that to what she would earn in a normal job, with no high education. She would make peanuts in a normal job, 10% if she was lucky. She is still studying English as I am sure she will plan to retire from sex work eventually, and will have to do something else.[/QUOTE]Actually when you are looking at average you are factoring in construction workers and min wage workers as well. Office workers ie those with degrees and skills make far more than they did 10 years ago. Far more. 13 k is what a gal will make working in a so-so restaurant or in a mediocre dept store, 25-30 k is what a just few years experience gets you in a decent (not great) office job. And sorry that is enough to live on. Sex work is not a choice occupation, no matter how much we might want it to be. Give most women the opportunity to earn 30 k at a "legit" job or work as a prostitute for 60-100 k and the vast majority will chose the former. Bottom line is a gal can make a living now at a regular job.

And if she has a Thai boyfriend who is also degreed they can make 60 k plus a month. Guess what? They can afford a condo and a car. Also, their salaries will increase in time. The average salary has increase 50% since 2008!
BTW, have you tried to hire any employees here lately? Well, we have. Want a good degreed employee with a few years experience who speaks "some" English? Good luck getting anyone under 30k. Ain't going to happen.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1652167]Actually when you are looking at average you are factoring in construction workers and min wage workers as well. Office workers ie those with degrees and skills make far more than they did 10 years ago. Far more. 13 k is what a gal will make working in a so-so restaurant or in a mediocre dept store, 25-30 k is what a just few years experience gets you in a decent (not great) office job. And sorry that is enough to live on. Sex work is not a choice occupation, no matter how much we might want it to be. Give most women the opportunity to earn 30 k at a "legit" job or work as a prostitute for 60-100 k and the vast majority will chose the former. Bottom line is a gal can make a living now at a regular job.

And if she has a Thai boyfriend who is also degreed they can make 60 k plus a month. Guess what? They can afford a condo and a car. Also, their salaries will increase in time. The average salary has increase 50% since 2008![/QUOTE]And this is what separates Thai working girls from Philippine working girls. The economic opportunities available for young Filipinas entering the labor force are scant to non existent and the pay, if they are lucky enough to find a job, is usually not enough to live on well. This is one reason why Filipinas, even those with jobs, look at Farangs differently than their Thai sisters do. Go to Makati, Cebu City, AC or Subic and you will feel the difference just walking around in the malls. Filipinas of all backgrounds except the very wealthy want to meet, go out with, and be economically rescued by Westerners. Then take a poor girl from the boonies, knocked up and deserted by her Filipino boyfriend at an early age and you have the source of an endless supply of young, desirable, very friendly bar girls.

My favorite BKK Go Go girl's apartment is very nice and respectable, meaning that while it is a small studio apartment, the building has 24 hour security and is in a middle class neighborhood and is not that different really from what a middle class college coed might live in while away at school in Kansas. In contrast, my favorite Subic bar girl lives in a shitty one room dormitory that she shares with 20 other girls. Each girl has a bunk bed and there is only one common bathroom for all 20 girls. It is very depressing and I can't help but feel l sorry for her. She is such a sweet girl. She gives me overflowing GFE. She would go to the North Pole with me if I asked her. 555.

So Economics makes a huge difference in girl's attitudes and behaviors as far as we are concerned. Thai girls are still great, but they are not desperate like Filipinas are anymore.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1652167]Actually when you are looking at average you are factoring in construction workers and min wage workers as well. Office workers ie those with degrees and skills make far more than they did 10 years ago. Far more. 13 k is what a gal will make working in a so-so restaurant or in a mediocre dept store, 25-30 k is what a just few years experience gets you in a decent (not great) office job. And sorry that is enough to live on. Sex work is not a choice occupation, no matter how much we might want it to be. Give most women the opportunity to earn 30 k at a "legit" job or work as a prostitute for 60-100 k and the vast majority will chose the former. Bottom line is a gal can make a living now at a regular job.

And if she has a Thai boyfriend who is also degreed they can make 60 k plus a month. Guess what? They can afford a condo and a car. Also, their salaries will increase in time. The average salary has increase 50% since 2008!
BTW, have you tried to hire any employees here lately? Well, we have. Want a good degreed employee with a few years experience who speaks "some" English? Good luck getting anyone under 30k. Ain't going to happen.[/QUOTE]Yes, the ultra-low jobs tend to skew the average. I wonder if median income would give a more accurate picture. I recently read the 2012 analysis by Adecco of Thailand and their numbers tend to bear out what you've said.

GF pulls down about 60, plus annual bonus. A couple of years ago a dimwitted boss decided not to pay the programming staff a bonus, or maybe it was a really crappy one, I'm not sure. The entire programming staff (4 or 5 programmers) walked off. Found better jobs quickly. Two years later they still haven't filled all the vacancies, mostly due to dimwit refusing to believe that salaries and work hours are changing. For better, or worse, this ain't the Thailand of the '90's.

[QUOTE=Phordphan;1652188]Yes, the ultra-low jobs tend to skew the average. I wonder if median income would give a more accurate picture. I recently read the 2012 analysis by Adecco of Thailand and their numbers tend to bear out what you've said.
[/QUOTE]You obviously are no mathematician. LOL. The median will be lower than the average. This is because a large portion earn low money and small portion get large money, which may well be several to many times higher than the median.

I certainly accept that it is unlikely that very intelligent highly educated women will be freelancing on the side these days. There were not many of those in the old days either in my experience. Most freelancers I met in the old days were shop assistants, hotel cleaning staff, telephone operators, check out chicks, etc., around that level, where it was impossible to make a decent living. Some girls could survive as Hotel staff because the hotel provided them with food and sleeping quarters, so that their expenses were minimal. They could also get commissions by taking hotel customers to the disco or restaurant etc.

Girls in very well paid jobs are just not relevant, to any changes that might be happening in the sex work scene. Don't get carried away with imagination.

There are a few moderately educated women in the sex scene, but not many. Sometimes its simply because they need to make a lot more than 60K per month, for one reason or another. I know one girl who stated that she needs to make well over 100K per month, so she is willing to do it freelance, even though she has a boyfriend. She is taking certain special studies. Perhaps he cannot afford to keep her for the amount of money she needs. I am sure she is planning for her own business to take over eventually though and quit sex work if her other venture becomes successful enough.

[QUOTE=Breadman;1651857]System restore should solve your problems. Go into the control panel and under system and security look for the option to restore your computer to an earlier time, hopefully something around 1 month back or so is available. If that doesn't work another option is to just reset your computer to factory settings (you'll lose everything).[/QUOTE]That is what I have done the last 3 times, but each time it reappears 2 or 3 days later. Am going to try the suggestions that 2 other posters suggested listed for malware removal.

[QUOTE=Syzygies;1652213]You obviously are no mathematician. LOL. The median will be lower than the average. This is because a large portion earn low money and small portion get large money, which may well be several to many times higher than the median.

I certainly accept that it is unlikely that very intelligent highly educated women will be freelancing on the side these days. There were not many of those in the old days either in my experience. Most freelancers I met in the old days were shop assistants, hotel cleaning staff, telephone operators, check out chicks, etc., around that level, where it was impossible to make a decent living. Some girls could survive as Hotel staff because the hotel provided them with food and sleeping quarters, so that their expenses were minimal. They could also get commissions by taking hotel customers to the disco or restaurant etc.

Girls in very well paid jobs are just not relevant, to any changes that might be happening in the sex work scene. Don't get carried away with imagination.

There are a few moderately educated women in the sex scene, but not many. Sometimes its simply because they need to make a lot more than 60K per month, for one reason or another. I know one girl who stated that she needs to make well over 100K per month, so she is willing to do it freelance, even though she has a boyfriend. She is taking certain special studies. Perhaps he cannot afford to keep her for the amount of money she needs. I am sure she is planning for her own business to take over eventually though and quit sex work if her other venture becomes successful enough.[/QUOTE]

The discussion is about FLs in Bangkok. 15 years ago there were lots of "part-timers" who were out to supplement there low paying office jobs. These were degreed gals who were paid very little. That group has all but disappeared. Why? Because they make enough at their office jobs. A great number of the gals I went with 10 years ago fit this description.

Secondly, 15 years ago a gal waiting tables did not make enough money to survive. Now that has changed. I see signs all the time on restaurant doors offering 15 k plus tips. The gals you list: hotel cleaning staff, shop assistants, etc also make far more than they did 10 short years ago.

Needs 100 k a month? No she does not "need" 100 k a month, she wants 100 k a month. Hell, I can live very well off 100 k a month. She is the exception to the rule. As I stated below paid a living wage most women will choose not to work as a prostitute. If they cannot pay their bills or if they are incredibly greedy as the girl you site above, then they will. Few are that greedy. Hence what you see in the FL scene today; the greedy, the not so bright, and the downright lazy.

[QUOTE=NattyBumpo;1652179]And this is what separates Thai working girls from Philippine working girls. The economic opportunities available for young Filipinas entering the labor force are scant to non existent and the pay, if they are lucky enough to find a job, is usually not enough to live on well. This is one reason why Filipinas, even those with jobs, look at Farangs differently than their Thai sisters do. Go to Makati, Cebu City, AC or Subic and you will feel the difference just walking around in the malls. Filipinas of all backgrounds except the very wealthy want to meet, go out with, and be economically rescued by Westerners. Then take a poor girl from the boonies, knocked up and deserted by her Filipino boyfriend at an early age and you have the source of an endless supply of young, desirable, very friendly bar girls.

My favorite BKK Go Go girl's apartment is very nice and respectable, meaning that while it is a small studio apartment, the building has 24 hour security and is in a middle class neighborhood and is not that different really from what a middle class college coed might live in while away at school in Kansas. In contrast, my favorite Subic bar girl lives in a shitty one room dormitory that she shares with 20 other girls. Each girl has a bunk bed and there is only one common bathroom for all 20 girls. It is very depressing and I can't help but feel l sorry for her. She is such a sweet girl. She gives me overflowing GFE. She would go to the North Pole with me if I asked her. 555.

So Economics makes a huge difference in girl's attitudes and behaviors as far as we are concerned. Thai girls are still great, but they are not desperate like Filipinas are anymore.[/QUOTE]And I for one am glad that they have more opportunity than they did 15 years ago. Not good for us mongers, but damn great for the gals here, who are well, pretty great in my opinion.

[QUOTE=Phordphan;1652188]Yes, the ultra-low jobs tend to skew the average. I wonder if median income would give a more accurate picture. I recently read the 2012 analysis by Adecco of Thailand and their numbers tend to bear out what you've said.

GF pulls down about 60, plus annual bonus. A couple of years ago a dimwitted boss decided not to pay the programming staff a bonus, or maybe it was a really crappy one, I'm not sure. The entire programming staff (4 or 5 programmers) walked off. Found better jobs quickly. Two years later they still haven't filled all the vacancies, mostly due to dimwit refusing to believe that salaries and work hours are changing. For better, or worse, this ain't the Thailand of the '90's.[/QUOTE]Spot on. We have been looking to hire a Thai sales person with some English. Wanting about 3 years or so experience. Going to have to pay a min or 30 k plus commission for anyone half way decent.

Restaurants and bars just can't keep staff. Unemployment is less than 2%. Hell, any Thai can go out and open a food cart with very little hassle and make a living. Now a pretty good living.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1652290]
Hence what you see in the FL scene today; the greedy, the not so bright, and the downright lazy.[/QUOTE]Maybe you expect a girl to work hard in a porno MP, have no choice of customers, and be eager to fucked in the ass 6 times per day, with 50% plus of the customers being psychos? Those freelancers who want it better, choosing customers, don't thrash the pussy and ass, are just greedy, stupid and lazy. Ha Ha. I think you have a bad attitude. Everyone takes the best paid job they can tolerate to do.

The most important thing for a freelance bargirl I know is that she chooses her customers carefully, rarely taking a guy she doesn't know well already. I would describe her as "determined". She makes well over 5 times the money she could otherwise get (possibly 10 times when business is good), yet she doesn't have to do CIM, anal, or be fucked so many times per day, and takes only very nice customers, not the freaky ones that mostly visit porno shops. Perhaps I don't any typical freelancers, but my favourite girls are having freedom to choose. One has super looks and body, the other super performance and like a GF / gik. Happy to repeat them many times. Haven't even tried any new girl recently in Thailand.

When I used to visit Cat at Mango a while back, she explained that over 50% of the customers who were somewhat psycho to her evaluation, and she certainly didn't like them one bit. Maybe this meant just very demanding and wanting to do weird acts. However certainly not what she would call nice guys. I don't know the fine details. It wasn't surprising that she left. I find it much harder to understand how girls manage to work in MPs like this. I expect the quality of customers at a shop like Annies is pretty low too. I can understand some girls working a BJ shop so they can give the poor pussies a rest from the battering.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1652167]Actually when you are looking at average you are factoring in construction workers and min wage workers as well. Office workers ie those with degrees and skills make far more than they did 10 years ago. Far more. 13 k is what a gal will make working in a so-so restaurant or in a mediocre dept store, 25-30 k is what a just few years experience gets you in a decent (not great) office job. And sorry that is enough to live on. Sex work is not a choice occupation, no matter how much we might want it to be. Give most women the opportunity to earn 30 k at a "legit" job or work as a prostitute for 60-100 k and the vast majority will chose the former. Bottom line is a gal can make a living now at a regular job.

And if she has a Thai boyfriend who is also degreed they can make 60 k plus a month. Guess what? They can afford a condo and a car. Also, their salaries will increase in time. The average salary has increase 50% since 2008!
BTW, have you tried to hire any employees here lately? Well, we have. Want a good degreed employee with a few years experience who speaks "some" English? Good luck getting anyone under 30k. Ain't going to happen.[/QUOTE]Yes that is the connection that many guys seem to miss. Money is not always the main motivating factor in deciding what women chose to do. If it was, most American women could probably make a heck of a lot more being escorts than they do working at McDonalds or Walmarts. Being a prostitute here is a demeaning job that marks girls for life. If they don't have to do it, most of them won't. A lot of them have traditionally done it for their families but even that is slowly changing because the rising tide of economics has effected those folks back in Issan as well. So has the near free medical care. They don't all need or want their daughters going south to work on their backs. It's all changing and changing quickly.

Plus the vast vast majority of working girls, in particular freelancers, rarely make anything close to 60 k a month. Most of them are broke most of the time. They get on hot spells where they have a great month of great customers but then they have months where business completely dries up and they are being booted out of their apartments (saving for the bad months not being a concept they seem to understand). Again the proof is in the pudding. In every aspect of this trade that I am familiar with the numbers are decreasing and the quality is deteriorating. The large majority of girls in the gogo's and the freelancers range from plain to ugly. Most have children to support or a drug habit to support. If the theory held that girls are mainly interested in money, then most of the gogo girls would be stunningly beautiful because those are the ones who can truly make a ton of money but they are not. The emergence of the demned Coyote girls is clearly evidence of this. Girls who in the old days would almost certainly have gone with customers are now only willing to dance in revealing clothes because they can easily make 20-30 k a month doing that. Many of these girls could clearly make so much more but chose not to. 20-30 k is enough for their needs.

Finally had the temptation to look at naked girls and went into Crazy House. I would say the line up has declined. Average level of looks is good, but rather few very attractive types, if any. I bought Bo a few drinks. She is semi cute and has natural almost the cups. Not too good for fucking though, so did not bother to BF her. May (ex Long Gun) is a sexy dancer but her pussy previously proved to be rather too tight for me, and not that special on the bed either. So ended up just being a perve for a while, after already getting good sex earlier in the day.

The super hot girls are just not there at the moment. Its not like the days when it first opened and they had only a small number of girls but nearly all hot. Now lots of girls but only a handful are really hot looking and generally not worth BFing. Still full of customers, and a lot of Japanese, but I think this bar is heading toward mediocrity. Fortunately still not much silicone, nose jobs, or fatties.

[QUOTE=DRRonin;1652366]The emergence of the demned Coyote girls is clearly evidence of this. Girls who in the old days would almost certainly have gone with customers are now only willing to dance in revealing clothes because they can easily make 20-30 k a month doing that. Many of these girls could clearly make so much more but chose not to. 20-30 k is enough for their needs.[/QUOTE]Recently a good looking Coyote girl caused me to enter the bar. Maybe it was Cowboy 2. Turns out that the coyote dancing bored me completely, most girls being too lazy to dance properly in this bar, and most of the girls were fairly ordinary, some overweight. The girl I liked was fairly busy. However I could see by her reactions to others that the chemistry would not be there with me, so left fairly quickly. Some of the Coyote girls seem to have a certain arrogance about them. Some just don't have the body or the looks. There is the odd super cute one. Was very tempted by one very cute one outside Midnite last night. However was too close to closing time I guess. Don't really understand how these Coyotes can make money though.

[QUOTE=Syzygies;1652375]Don't really understand how these Coyotes can make money though.[/QUOTE]They generally work on salary and drinks. The structures are different in different places. I have heard that they get from 600-1000 baht a day for dancing and then if they get above a certain amount of drinks they get more money. But then Coyote girls seem to come in different flavors as well. Some do go with customers and some do not. From what I see in Soi Cowboy most do not go or if they do the barfine and their price is so high that they are rarely taken out. Most of those cuties that line the soi will just flatly tell you that they don't go. Now in Nana I believe many of them do go but the barfine is usually higher and so is their asking price. It is kind of hard to define what Coyote means exactly these days. Maybe just that they are hired by an outside agency rather than directly by the bar? Also as you mention, the quality of even the Coyote girls is getting worse. I was in Mandarin last week. They have needed to hire a bunch of Coyote girls because they have so few regular dancers and most of them were not at all good looking (a few were). And to our point about fewer and fewer girls wanting to rent out their bodies, the growth of the Coyote industry over the past few years is due to the fact that the bars can not find enough girls who are willing to go with men.

What I don't understand is how the bars can afford to pay the Coyote girls because I have seen very little evidence that they add to the bottom line. No one buys them drinks and most guys who know better avoid those places. A bar like Mandarin (upstairs) has hired about 20 of them but I have seen no increase in customers. Guys don't like Coyote girls. The bars that do well are those without Coyote girls and have a decent line-up. But harder and harder to do apparently.

Mate, I agree with everything you say. However included in your post was this little nugget:

[QUOTE=DRRonin;1652366]most American women could probably make a heck of a lot more being escorts than they do working at McDonalds or Walmarts.[/QUOTE]You clearly have a higher opinion of the average American woman than I do! .