Phnom Penh

[QUOTE=Somewhere15; 1101910]About your disco expeirence, can your share more with us (me). I also went to some of these disco's and yes the talent their seems much better then you will find in many bars. I expeirenced two problems: many of these girls don't speak English (or refuse to do) and making contact wasn't a hurdle. Is that because I am 50+ and these girls are not looking for a suggardaddy or?

Hope too hear your expierences. [/QUOTE]Heart of Darkness you will find plenty of freelancers who speak (little) english. My experience is that most of the girls there are working girls but be careful. The occasional girl may have come in with some local "big" guy. Stay away from those girls. Better to obeserve the girl for a moment (to make sure she hasn't a rich local boyfriend) before you approach.

The Saint Tropez disco has far fewer tourists and more expats. Girls are a mixed bag there but most do speak a few words of english. In the Saint Tropez you'll find less girls looking for a sugardaddy since some of the girls have genuine jobs, their own shops or already a sugardaddy.

Have fun

[QUOTE=Sabretongue;1100553]The ladyboys are there. You better believe it.[/QUOTE]There are 4 lady boys at Candy Bar at the moment, I believe. All are pretty easy to spot, IMO.

[QUOTE=Wendella;1100732]Have to disagree. When they ask you for drinks one after another, are very touchy and affectionate, have never seen you before and therefore know you're a tourist, and also know you've almost surely been to Thailand already and therefore are expecting things to go a certain way, they're fully aware that they're playing on your expectation that after these drinks you'll be able to take the girl out. Otherwise who would lay out $40 (or however much) for free drinks for a bunch of girls who can't be taken out. (for that matter, who would go drink there?) But yes it looks like the reality is that you have to ask up front who here can go out and who can not. Which sucks. I think that's socially awkward enough that it rarely happens, and that's another key element of their game -- the game's set up so the inconvenient question won't often get asked; only the most hardcore mongers are going to actually ask that question. [/QUOTE]And I have to respectfully disagree with you, as well. It is possible the girl knew what she was doing and was leading you on, but it is more likely she did not. The girls in Phnom Penh know next to nothing about what goes on in a Thai go-go, and no, they won't necessarily assume a tourist has been to Thailand already. Some have, some haven't. Also, an increasing number are coming from KTVs and similar clubs that cater to Asians-I guess their business is down substantially. I have been to such bars in other countries, especially China, and there were always a large subset of girls who did not go out, but they were just as hands on and affectionate in the club as the ones who did. As far as who would lay out $40 and not expect more-lots of guys (to my dismay, as well) , especially those I see as the new breed of Cambodian expat. These are the guys who have been arriving in increasing numbers the last few years, who are typically in their 20s and 30s, work for NGOs or foreign multinationals, and have lots of cash to burn and often a girlfriend or wife they are faithful to. I met one such guy who had been in town for a few months and still did not realize the girls in hostess bars were available for take out, and this was the third time he had been out to them. Yes, you need to ask right away if a girl will go with you, if you want to be 100% sure. Sorry if that seems like a mood killer for you, but I disagree that the game is set up so that people won't ask that early. I believe it is only your own preference that prevents it. Koreans and other Asians do it immediately if they have any doubts and it is important to them, as they are used to KTVs where this usually needs to be specified up front. I have only run into one situation where I or someone I know asked this question up front and was lied to, whereas that happens often in Thailand. BTW, I don't think I have ever bought a girl in Asia more than three lady drinks in one visit to her bar, and even that is a rarity. If they see a guy laying out $40 for lady drinks, they will know with little doubt that he is a tourist, and probably not one who has spent much time in Cambodia. The only bars in Phnom Penh where I have seen consistent pressure from multiple girls to press for lady drinks are Zanzibar and to a lesser extent Bar 69. This comes from what the female Cambodian managers are telling the girls to do. Anywhere else, it is just the occasional girl who will be pushy about it.

[QUOTE=Shadow6491;1101043]Perhaps you could actually blame the expats for some of the hostess bar behavior. There are many expats who treat the hostess bars as just a regular bar where you go to have a drink with your mates. And why not the drink prices are exactly the same if not cheaper in some cases, and for $3 a lady drink you can have a girl sit next to you and rub your crotch or give you a neck massage while you converse with your mates and play grab ass with the girls.[/QUOTE]I do this frequently, but I don't think expats like me are the type who have caused the recent increase in girls who don't go out, since we know the value of our money. $1 an hour is about all such service goes for on the local market, and I often pay that in the form of a tip, not a lady drink. However, the "new breed" I described above is another story. Also, the economy has resulted in a fair number of former garment factory and similar workers coming to bars. Most don't go out, and don't last very long.

[QUOTE=Alien Sake; 1101361]Hi, I am planning to stay for a while (maybe up to a year) in Cambodia from around February on.

I have read a lot of valuable reports here about the different cities, but what is your opinion about what's the best place to go to in regard of price / quality / quantity?

[i]Phnom Penh, Battambang (hardly read anything about it here) , Siem Riep or Sihanoukville? [/i]

Also what are the chances to find a longer-term relationship for a not-unattractive, fit guy in his end-20's?

Thanks a lot for your help to a Cambodia-newbie! [/QUOTE]For P4P, PP is the only place worth going. Sihanoukville used to have a good scene, but it is pathetic now. Your chances are fantastic at finding a GF anywhere in Cambodia.

[QUOTE=Somewhere15;1101910]About your disco expeirence, can your share more with us (me). I also went to some of these disco's and yes the talent their seems much better then you will find in many bars. I expeirenced two problems: many of these girls don't speak English (or refuse to do) and making contact wasn't a hurdle. Is that because I am 50+ and these girls are not looking for a suggardaddy or? [/QUOTE]Sounds like you went to the discos that are not freelancer hangouts, such as DJ Club, Sparks, Elements, etc. Generally speaking, if the male patrons are predominately Cambodian, you are not going to find hookers there. At Heart of Darkness, Martini, Riverhouse, and Rock (presumably-I haven't been in 2 years) , you will. There were none at St. Tropez when I went, but that was when it had just opened. They may well be going there now. It is aimed at the upscale expat and Cambodian customer, or at least that was the initial target market. After seeing the drink prices, I never returned.

What was Svay Pak and why are people in this thread so happy about the possibility of a new one?

[QUOTE=Alien Sake; 1099533]Hi,

I often read here about Vietnamese offering their services in Cambodia.

Does anyone actually know why that is? I mean why do they go to a country that is even poorer (on paper)? [/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Traveler Tom;1102473][/QUOTE]Perhaps because they were born there?

[QUOTE=Evianist;1102352]What was Svay Pak and why are people in this thread so happy about the possibility of a new one?[/QUOTE]It was the local wall to wall, house to house brothels area with almost unlimited choices in ladies and all for a cheap pirce of a few $ a shot.

Will there be another place like this in PP. Don't think so as all the NGOs and current gov't have killed the industry here.

FZ

[QUOTE=Sabretongue; 1100552]I think one of the issues is that a number of the girls in those bars are married or with a long-term boyfriend.

I've had the same experience and it really winds me up. I remember thinking to myself at the time, 'if they're not there to screw what the hell are they there for? That's the point of it being a girlie bar. '

It's a terrible feeling, not being able to get laid in a girlie bar, it gives one pause. [/QUOTE]Absolutely. Like I wrote enough times. 99% of girls have a long term bf, mostly rich barang (foreigner) , sometimes khmer. And funnily, either with a barang, they have one more khmer bf, to be sure haha. If you're so lucky to find one without barang bf, don't be so sure there isn't a khmer man waiting to have enough money for marry her.

[QUOTE=Sabretongue;1100553]The ladyboys are there. You better believe it.[/QUOTE]Agree, sadly.

[QUOTE=Wendella; 1101184]I hear ya. Though I'd say your personal experience with these girls differs from others', including mine. Maybe its because you're an expat and I'm a tourist. [/QUOTE]Same experience at all. When you know how the game works, after long time, your attitude is completely clear, subconsciously you act in a "pro-manner" and they know or feel you're not a fool and you know the price of everything, and you're here for YOUR price and service. And when is time to change from "amateur monger" to "pro", your eyes will recognize, like me and Wendella and million others, who is a waste of time, who is available, who next day. Sometimes agree, if the girl is a professional fake, and you feel inside there is something wrong, there is, so ask the price, either not so directly but with funny ways, will gives you the answer. And change bar, or girl, quickly! Haha. .

[QUOTE=Shadow6491; 1101040]Well even in the Thai go-gos now there are more and more girls that don't go out. The bars in Cambodia are called hostess bars after all and yes I am a hardcore monger who normally negotiate exactly what I expect in the room as well.

As for the Nigerian scammers It is my believe and I think it was quoted by someone famous a long time ago. That you can only con a dishonest man. All there scams involve you doing something that is illegal or is morally wrong.

One of the reasons I moved to Cambodia was I am a firm believer in taking responsibility for your own actions and their outcomes. Cambodia used not to have all these stupid laws that were created to protect you from yourself.

Please do not take this as a personal attack I enjoy your post and the information you provide others. [/QUOTE]It's the attitude from the beginning the problem, from the monger. If someone is going to Cambodia for fuck, reading around how easy is, obiouvsly you PRETEND, like others you read on internet, your girl. When expectations doesn't realize, the monger go angry. Why, I ask. They are not holes near a table. Instead girls with a brain, free to answer "No, no boom boom" to everyone, till a handsome rich young (fool if possible) guy comes in the bar, well, strangely you will see the girl hand by hand going to fuck.

How is possible? No, he isn't the bf, you can hear them talking about what's your name how old are you till let's go.

They choose, when beautiful, that's all. .

How you're wrong, about con. Con, is an ability. And the fool is not dishonest, just a fool wants quick money. And no, not all the scams from a con are illegal things. Just something fools heavily wants, and no idea how to realize. Is it so different from the moto driver answer you "yes yes I know I know, I bring you beautiful girl cheap cheap"?
And ask 30$ for a karaoke girl, giving back to the papasan 10000 riel, later. Did you know her price was 10000 riel? You just ask a young pretty girl. With no idea where the hell is, hehe. .

[QUOTE=Alien Sake; 1101361]Hi, I am planning to stay for a while (maybe up to a year) in Cambodia from around February on.

I have read a lot of valuable reports here about the different cities, but what is your opinion about what's the best place to go to in regard of price / quality / quantity?

[i]Phnom Penh, Battambang (hardly read anything about it here) , Siem Riep or Sihanoukville? [/i]

Also what are the chances to find a longer-term relationship for a not-unattractive, fit guy in his end-20's?

Thanks a lot for your help to a Cambodia-newbie! [/QUOTE][QUOTE=Dinghy; 1101585]Depends on what yu intend on doing while in Cambo.

Snooky has beaches. Nothing else to do there except FSE (fuck sleep and eat). There's a casino.

PP has some touristy stuff. There's a casino FSE.

SR has Angko, FSE.

BB. Beats me what's there. Probably pretty cheap, though, You would prob need to speak Khmer there more than the others.

That's my 2 bhat. Er. Riel anyway[/QUOTE]This is exactly what you will do, everywhere. FSE. Is it what you was searching? Well, if hang around is too much for you, like someone else told you, PP will fit you. .

[QUOTE=Hippie; 1102104]There are 4 lady boys at Candy Bar at the moment, I believe. All are pretty easy to spot, IMO.

And I have to respectfully disagree with you, as well. . [/QUOTE]The answer is easy. A lot, more than I expected honestly, japanese men go to Cambodia. Well, like every pure jap man, they go to pubs like 69 or others just for a drink with useless chitchat with a young girl. They absolutely don't expect sex. And this is a billionaire business in japan. So probably, the owner of the drink bar where someone of us can go, had a deep talk with a jap guy, who explained how things works. He tried, jap men came, was real! Obiouvsly, the owner is enough fool to forget customers aren't just japanese. And a western man, wants to fuck! Why care, they made money on your back, you don't come back? Amen, next tourist-fool will come. It's typical, in Cambodia, this attitude, one shot money. Expecially in Siem Reap and PP. Works? No, after months reputation spreads, and magically the bar change owner / closed / change location. One shot, short time and close, it's the Chinese attitude spreads everywhere now. Suggestion: google around, read this forum, make a clear idea where to go where not. Hang around in the center and try a cute place with no idea what is inside, is a 50/50, wanna try? .

[QUOTE=Evianist;1102352]What was Svay Pak and why are people in this thread so happy about the possibility of a new one?[/QUOTE]Because was a place full of young girls (very, honestly) , a huge numbers, difficult to count, all togheter, and super cheap. It's a dream, nowadays, that's why all wants it desperately, somewhere else.

One of the main differences between the working girls in Thailand and Cambodia is that Thai girls are primarily looking for older sponsors to pay them money each month so they can live with their Thai boyfriends, whereas Cambodian girls are looking for boyfriends, preferably youngish and white.

Not sure why the difference exists, but it does.

Many barang started to move and reside in Cambodia when shinawatra inforced immigration law in Thailand. And since 2005 Cambodian scene face serious crackdown, NGO push the pressure to the maxx. We saw the end of svay pak, the end of fair brothels in 63 street like tommy. By fair I mean barang was welcome, not overpriced and not robbed (except in 2 notorious well know place) , hun sen park girls almost disappear, toul kok gone, kin svay disappear totaly, barfine started to appeared in the bar scene etc the list could be so long.

Amazing also how short time price rise. From 3 dollars for khmer girl to 5 for viet cuties. Just check archives pictures. For cutties you got and those you have now for 20 USD.

This old good time has gone but many people still believe in this old good time.

The fact is Ngo want to concentrate and keep under heavy watching the p4p scene in phnom penh. For police it s double interesting because they can push bribes higher for closing eyes. For ngo= more mongers, more everything =more donations.

Basicaly about local brothels those located outside tourist place meaning close to toul kok and riverside they are always barang welcome for 5/6 dollars but those like in street 63 are clearly barang no welcome ever if you can speak khmer or come with khmer friends. Simply because barang= Ngo problems. But in both case the quality of girls has dropped dramaticaly. But some are still friendly, because their goal is to robbed you.

When brothels is raid? Depend who are the girls. Khmer girls go out quickly after a small" fine" it s often very risky to arrest and bribe Cambodian brothels because its hard to knwo who is behind and thing can turn badly (some years ago military exchange gun fire with cops in toul kok, this khmer brothel brothel was control by military, cops ignored this fact and try to racket the place) , viet girls are more vulnerable because they are illegal immigrant so they have to paid more, if they cannot or they are deportated, but more often they stay in jail 1 month and paid her fine with her body if she is attractive.

Like you said taking a motodop for finding girl is a pure dream and for sure he will bring you the lousiest place where he will get maximum of profit. How many time I listen idiot barang paying 20 or 30 dollars for short time in a wood schack brothel during the time I was bonking another brothel girl in another room for 5 dollars!

Also if many motodop speak few english their understanding is close to zero. So they hardly understand your request.

Many Cambodian bar girl are not so expert as thai bar girl but they learn quickly. In 2005 I was with a friend in Walkabout bar, talking with a working girl, a khmer girl from kompong cham. She already got 4 sponsors one from france, one from austria, another from south koread and the last one an americain. She got 1200 dollars just with money transfer every month. Without added the money she make each month with customer.

Cambodia is not totally dead some place offered always large numerous brothel area. For low price. But don t expect viet cutties in their 18-20 years old for 5 dollars anymore. Simply because now they can get 60 to 100 Singapore dollars per hour in Singapore rld or 40 USD in Malaysia per hour. Where they are very wanted.

After visiting almost all south east asia. I agree with Marrow that Thailand is the easiest country for P4P holiday in term of choice, price and hassle free. Despite I will prefered another country.

Yes time in Cambodia has change and those living in the old time, with their certainty form the past will be badly disapointed.

Cheers,

Marrow

Try Dream Bar, Srey Saan used to work there with big nice boobies!

[QUOTE=Evianist; 1102824]One of the main differences between the working girls in Thailand and Cambodia is that Thai girls are primarily looking for older sponsors to pay them money each month so they can live with their Thai boyfriends, whereas Cambodian girls are looking for boyfriends, preferably youngish and white.

Not sure why the difference exists, but it does. [/QUOTE]Probably because the Thai girls believe in money more than they believe in love, whereas the Khmer girls aren't yet so jaded.

[QUOTE=D Cups;1103281]Has anyone seen any busty girls in PP? Do tell, please.[/QUOTE]Barbados has some winners these days (St 130)

Visited 69 bar, Rose bar and Candy bar. Hostesses are either too ugly, old or fat. I did see a rare gem at 69 bar, but was told that she's still a virgin and doesn't go out with customers. Oh well.

Visited the new Darling Darling disco at Nagaworld. More spaceous and with a live band and $8 Heineken and many half-drunk tourists. Crap! The same girls from Sharky's were there! No next time for me. Why bother? Riverhouse is much better.

My fun for this trip was the task of attempting to pickup a Walkabout waitress. Problem was that her English was almost non-existent, she only talked bar! I didn't expect to get very far and I haven't. Only managed to get her home address and I will try to write. Does babelfish that English to Khmer translation? To be continued on the next trip.

Spaceman

[QUOTE=AlLostInSpace13; 1103898]Visited 69 bar, Rose bar and Candy bar. Hostesses are either too ugly, old or fat. I did see a rare gem at 69 bar, but was told that she's still a virgin and doesn't go out with customers. Oh well.

Visited the new Darling Darling disco at Nagaworld. More spaceous and with a live band and $8 Heineken and many half-drunk tourists. Crap! The same girls from Sharky's were there! No next time for me. Why bother? Riverhouse is much better.

My fun for this trip was the task of attempting to pickup a Walkabout waitress. Problem was that her English was almost non-existent, she only talked bar! I didn't expect to get very far and I haven't. Only managed to get her home address and I will try to write. Does babelfish that English to Khmer translation? To be continued on the next trip.

Spaceman[/QUOTE]A sad reflection on the scene as it is these days.

With respect to translations, you will be lucky to even find a computer with Khmer fonts installed, let alone something that will translate it for you.

"Don't bother writing, just send money." I'm sure that's what she would say if only she knew the right words. .

[QUOTE=D Cups;1105183]Has anyone seen a good rate on a flight from Chiang Mai to Phnom Penh (one-way)? The best I could find is Bangkok Air for $276 USD. I was hoping to do better than that. Thanks and happy mongering! .[/QUOTE]As far as I know, the price for this route was never cheap because there is almost no other airlines flying from there so no competition. Sometimes it may be alot cheaper to fly CM to BKK and then book 2nd flight from BKK to PP. Takes more time but could save you half the cost or more, especially if the flights are on sale. Ex: AirAsia.

Shark