Sosua Reports

[QUOTE=Oakie;2394759]Well, there is another group of folks out there, that nobody mentions. Those who's livelihood depends on the current level of tourism, the owners, managers, suppliers, and most importantly, the WORKERS in the bar, hotel, restaurant business.

Some of them were out marching the streets in protest, a couple nights ago! They need their jobs to support their families now, not at some future time when the "family tourism" business is supposed to kick in!

Mayor Ilana is a politician, above all, and she has to give these folks some real answers, if she's to be re-elected![/QUOTE]Very true. A lot of good people have gotten caught up in this political mess. This is bigger than the mayor. I don't see the old days returning. Hopefully people can find employment somewhere.

[QUOTE=Sammon;2394774]

...I believe Sosua Main Street will slowly die off. Some brave establishments will move to new area hoping. Right now there are no open bars there where people can easily go in and out....[/QUOTE]It already happened!

The once thriving main street is now a deserted rust belt with boarded up store fronts.

I had an (illegal) beer with an old pal down there who is still running a legal business!

In the hour or so I was shooting the shit with him, a few of the old hardcore tarted up hookers were still wandering around looking for the odd client, and some of them did get picked up!

That's what happens when thriving businesses leave an area and the stores get boarded up. It's the same all over the world. It attracts cheap drug dependent hookers and the folks that deal with them! Then the tatoo parlours, rub and tugs, cheap souvenir stands and nail salons take over!

Good job, Ilana! LOL.

[QUOTE=Sammon;2394774].............Only way Sosua can survive is by staying as a brothel town. It will never become a tourist town because there is nothing apart from the beach............[/QUOTE]Without prostitution Sosua will be a quiet town with a few tourists. There are many venues throughout the Caribbean with even better beaches than Sosua that are quiet villages with hardly any tourists.

[QUOTE=Turgid;2394813]Without prostitution Sosua will be a quiet town with a few tourists. There are many venues throughout the Caribbean with even better beaches than Sosua that are quiet villages with hardly any tourists.[/QUOTE]PM me a few of these locations please! Thanks!

Prostitution in that centralized area of Sosua is the head. One club or restaurant does not make the Sue. Those clubs have been playing back-and-forth for years with one opening and the other Being shut down. The beach has always been there and is not going anywhere.

You have weekend warriors, ex pats, street vendors, regular visitors, hustlers, small bars, hotels and restaurants. All of them add to the ambience to the area. However it is the Chicas that are the main attraction.

The harassment has been there for a while however it did not stop the normal flow. Maybe five or six unlucky girls a night will be incarcerated and released the next day. Hell even the police made a little money on the side releasing two or three of the ones they caught for a small fee.

Any Chica could walk on the strip and grab a quick client. Some only went when the club was open. Some came with no intentions of going in a club or restaurant. It was a public area and a live spot for SW, tourist, locals, and more during the day but especially at night.

When the police and the military got the Political instructions to arrest any Chica in the area that looks like she's involved in prostitution a problem came into play. That roughly affected 70% of the action on the main street. You still had action going on in the clubs. However the quality of SW Chica's dropped noticeably. The prices in the clubs sometimes doubled or tripled.

The clubs, restaurants, and bars became a haven for many Chicas seeking to avoid the police. That led to the next move of removing the main clubs and bars from the area.

Opportunist came in and jumped on the bandwagon. They aligned them selves with people who wanted change. It seem like a good alliance until the differences of the two group came to light. Group 2: Who had the Financial resources and vision to create a new area "Out of sight out of mind" bump heads with group 1: Group 1 didn't want any parties organized or un organize of any sort. They still were in possession of the local police and military forces. They use them to stop any ongoing parties in any the area.

As a result, A backlash came in effect and the area has suffered financially. What would you expect when you put the full force of stopping prostitution in action.

Some people think the above situation doesn't affect them because they, like me, have a lot of Chicas contacts and can just call for service is needed. I say true to a point however, I say this. That is good to weather the storm but what happens if it always raining. The Sue will very quickly lose its attraction.

If I was thinking about retiring or maybe getting a second home in the DR and I came to Sosua in its present state, do you think I would want to choose there? Do you think it would be a good place for me to tell my partners to invest their retirement or personal finances in getting a condo or a business in the area? Is the place currently just as attractive as it was 3 year or 3 months ago?
We on this board are up on new information and current condition true or false however imagine the person that’s not. Imagine the person who has been to the Sue a few times six months ago and now has returned with five of his friends. Imagine how they’re feeling about the scene in its current condition.

Is a small beach city with one traffic light and a population of a little over 50,000 locals worth me wanting to stay there?

The Sue cannot die! But when you change up your pitch some people may not want to hit your ball. I'm hoping things will normalize but I know with time nothing stays the same.

[QUOTE=GrownMan1;2394870]Some people think the above situation doesn't affect them because they, like me, have a lot of Chicas contacts and can just call for service is needed. I say true to a point however, I say this. That is good to weather the storm but what happens if it always raining. The Sue will very quickly lose its attraction.

If I was thinking about retiring or maybe getting a second home in the DR and I came to Sosua in its present state, do you think I would want to choose there? Do you think it would be a good place for me to tell my partners to invest their retirement or personal finances in getting a condo or a business in the area? Is the place currently just as attractive as it was 3 year or 3 months ago?
We on this board are up on new information and current condition true or false however imagine the person thats not. Imagine the person who has been to the Sue a few times six months ago and now has returned with five of his friends. Imagine how theyre feeling about the scene in its current condition.

Is a small beach city with one traffic light and a population of a little over 50,000 locals worth me wanting to stay there?

The Sue cannot die! But when you change up your pitch some people may not want to hit your ball. I'm hoping things will normalize but I know with time nothing stays the same.[/QUOTE]Big dude, remember a few years ago we saw posts about how easy Sosua was about mongering? It was considered mongering on training wheels? And how Santo Domingo was for experienced mongers who know what they are doing. Remember how old vets sort of mocked the mongers that were still going to Sosua, and that they had moved on?

Well right now, this is the time a monger needs some experience in knowing how to navigate in Sosua and get the most out of it, regardless of the political turmoil or venue closings. All those that have bailed because of closings, chica arrests etc, have basically declared that they are not cut out for adapting to change. They need those training wheels.

On the idea of advising friends on if Sosua is a viable place to retire to. I think it is. With a few caveats. If he is an expat like myself, who does not require certain venues to be open in order to cope, is not in vacation mode so he has no need to fulfil a quotaof chicas for his vacation. He can very well live in or close to Sosua. The benefit of already being an expat, is that I'm living through all of the changes I see around me. I have no sense of loss or doom like what is felt back in the matrix. Because in my opinion, that's the reaction that I sense from enough mongers not only from this forum, but others.

Me and my expat friends feel no such concern. Whatever happens, happens. Day to day living is still great. On another note, I believe in keeping things simple. And I've kept it simple the entire time. I will never complicate my life by retiring, and then try to open a business. Flying under the radar is one of the best assets you have in living abroad. It amazes me how many guys want to live in the DR, but not satisfied with just retiring. They have to open a business. By not having a business, do you know how much stress a person eliminated from their life? Another thing, I don't advise mongers to buy property just because they loved their mongering lifestyle. And want to continue it in retirement.

I always advise guys to rent and live in the DR for a while. Once the novelty of living in the DR falls off, the thrill of being close to juice will fall off too. Sosua is a place a dude can love without the p4 p right in your face. Getting chicks and juice is easy, it doesn't have to come just from Sosua. You don't need Sosua just for that. I also advise guys not to invest too much money on a place to live. Live decent but don't spend a fortune on rent. I started off paying only $350 a month rent. And it hasnt changed ever since I took on the place. Look at me now. I have another place on the other side of the world. The rent and expenses are almost the same. But I may not have been able to do it, if I was knee deep paying rent in one place. I gave my self the flexibility to live anywhere else I want. Not just in Sosua. I did what I need to do when I was working, so I can afford to do whatever I want financially without needing to earn income from a job or opening a business.

IMO, that's what a retiring individual should consider. Grow into retirement abroad. Don't put too much into one place until you really know where you want to stay. You might find out you want to live in a totally different country. I recall a ytuber, who paid a nice chunk of cash to buy his condo in Sosua. Outgrew the place in about a year and a half, then end up moving to PP. Paying for a place over there. Thats what happens when being hasty in decision making. Granted he may have sold the 1st place and made a profit, but that was still a huge risk. To cough up that much cash, and eventually realize you rather live elsewhere.

Guys from the states need to spend their time talking to wise dudes in the trenches that may offer solid advice / counsel. Lastly, often enough the needs of a 60 something year old is going to be quite different than a 40 ish pushing 50 dude eligible for retirement. Vacationing mongers often have a different outlook than expats who have been living abroad for awhile.

[QUOTE=Wrx2005;2394963]Big dude, remember a few years ago we saw posts about how easy Sosua was about mongering? It was considered mongering on training wheels? And how Santo Domingo was for experienced mongers who know what they are doing. Remember how old vets sort of mocked the mongers that were still going to Sosua, and that they had moved on?

Well right now, this is the time a monger needs some experience in knowing how to navigate in Sosua and get the most out of it, regardless of the political turmoil or venue closings. All those that have bailed because of closings, chica arrests etc, have basically declared that they are not cut out for adapting to change. They need those training wheels.

Guys from the states need to spend their time talking to wise dudes in the trenches that may offer solid advice / counsel. Lastly, often enough the needs of a 60 something year old is going to be quite different than a 40 ish pushing 50 dude eligible for retirement. Vacationing mongers often have a different outlook than expats who have been living abroad for awhile.[/QUOTE]What's up Bro, I pm you earlier welcome back but you never respond. It was good seeing you in the Sue! Your intellectual insight is always welcome.
Yes I remember what those old vets were saying. We all knew what was in the Sue but we chose to go and excepted those training wheels. That's why I love the Sue I knew what to expect. I didn't need those training wheels I wanted them! If she can't give it to me I can choose not to come or come when I want to deal with her changes. I'm glad I don't have to navigate like some people that choose to deal with the current conditions. If I was living there I would be doing it too.

I've never been an expat before so getting your perspective is insightful. Who are these guys from the state that you're talking about? Was that a subliminal shot, were you speaking in directly or general? Since we are friends I can only assume that it wasn't directly. Personally I think everybodys entitled to their opinion. Even if we agree to disagree like brother P said.
I've never been 60 something but you hit home with fortyish pushing 50. Once again your wisdom like many of my older friends that are in the trenches is insightful and welcomed. You always bring a wealth of knowledge that I have grown to respect.

I'm glad the current conditions it's just another day in the life for guys like you. It's cool that why'all can adapt and go on with every day living in the Sue. You made your choice and are dealing with it. It's your money and your time. I would be stepping out of line to tell you what need to be doing. I wouldnt think you were a clown or anything other than a man that has knowledge of the conditions and chose to deal with it.

[QUOTE=GrownMan1;2395052]I've never been an expat before so getting your perspective is insightful. Who are these guys from the state that you're talking about? Was that a subliminal shot, were you speaking in directly or general? Since we are friends I can only assume that it wasn't directly. Personally I think everybodys entitled to their opinion. Even if we agree to disagree like brother P said.
I've never been 60 something but you hit home with fortyish pushing 50. Once again your wisdom like many of my older friends that are in the trenches is insightful and welcomed. You always bring a wealth of knowledge that I have grown to respect.

I'm glad the current conditions it's just another day in the life for guys like you. It's cool that why'all can adapt and go on with every day living in the Sue. You made your choice and are dealing with it. It's your money and your time. I would be stepping out of line to tell you what need to be doing. I wouldnt think you were a clown or anything other than a man that has knowledge of the conditions and chose to deal with it.[/QUOTE]WOW, I never thought you were reading that and assuming it could be personally directed. I'm kinda dumb founded. I was talking about several things, what part would you take personally? You and I have never discussed your plans or endeavors. After 5 yrs of me living here I have interviewed hundreds of guys that speak candidly and freely on their intentions when they retire. When you mentioned your concerns about whether it was a good idea to advise guys you know on if Sosua was a viable place to live and start a business, I was giving my perspective based on my interactions with other guys concerned about the same thing.

Mainly, Sosua is hot now. If a guy is coming to Sosua to start a business he is taking a huge risk. Especially if he needs the income in order to make ends meet. My statement was for anybody, and advice for the guys you were saying you would advise. Not directed towards you. The reason I frown on starting a business especially soon after retirement, is because, a guy that just retires doesn't really know what he is going to be doing with himself yet. The same as a guy buying property, and not sure that is where they are going to stay.

There are a few examples out there of people that I talked to. One example is a mother and a daughter that each had restaurants on the beach. Both of them never got off the ground, even though they both felt that they had a good product. Another issue is once in business, a guy could find himself having to deal with police or other officials giving you trouble. Kings restaurant is a good example of that. It took that guy quite awhile to get the clearances he needed to open up. Less than two yrs, closed down. If he depended on his place for income, that would be a major set back. Hope he re opens.

Angelo with the laundry service. 1st came to me years ago talking about he wanted to sell and / or rent used cars. Down the road, he ended up with the laundry service and the apartments. But he is struggling to stay afloat. Has come to several dudes asking for financial help. Thats not where an expat should be. Brian the Jamaican cook has been struggling to maintain for years. Always moving from one place to the next. Expenses kicking his ass.

Will who had the sweet shop across from Seabreeze, wasnt really making any money. Eventually he moved and had a restaurant inside Hotel Seabreeze. But his health had been failing for years. Had to close the business due to lack of customers and poor health. His health may have got worse due to stress trying to run a business and finding out that it was more of a hassle than an enjoyment. When you saw Will, he was married to his business, but not enjoying his day to day life.

Now I'm well aware that some guys have the type of hustle where they can work online, or what they are offering has very little overhead. To me, that is fine. If I was an expert on computers, ID use my skills to make money doing that.

Yes, I was offering my opinion and perspective on how I feel about trying to start a business, in relation to guys that want to do it, but who I feel have not done enough resaearch or are prepared for what they may be getting into. I never advise guys not to pursue their dreams and goals. All I do is tell them to look around, look what is going on here. Look at how foreigners are treated when they have a business. A business is at risk if it's constantly on pins and needles by entities out of your control.

Most businesses run by foreigners are not making a killing, they are doing enough to get by. Like The Tree House. His place can be quite busy and seem like it's flourishing. But the real is, it's a struggle keeping that business going. Sherman once told me, by the end of the week or month his personal take home was very little compared to what he took in. When all of the fellows come to his place, we eat / drink and enjoy, but can leave whenever we want. We can travel anytime we want. When you own a business, and your presence is necessary, that limits your mobility. Everything we see looks good on the surface.

But Sherman has had his headaches too. Business was burglarized several times. Almost shut down from that bikini contest they had at his place. No bro, no way am I directing my POV and opinion towards you. I like you and respect you. And when I see you, you make feel good about living in Sosua. In fact all of the dudes I know, especially all the guys going to Colombia, Brazil and Asia, they all come back to the Sue to visit. Thats how I know Sosua is not dead. I checked my PM, I didn't see any message there. I had one from Brother P only.

You GrownMan have provided a lot of great content and feedback through the years. I lurk and read. I don't usually post when I see a job well done. But your perspective and insights is definitely an asset here.

[QUOTE=BrotherP;2394818]PM me a few of these locations please! Thanks![/QUOTE]Many quiet good beaches from St. Kitts, Nevis and Anguilla all the way down to Trinidad and Tobago. Many islands. No prostitutes, few tourists, lovely water. Google them. Tripadvisor is your friend.

[QUOTE=Wrx2005;2394963]Big dude, remember a few years ago we saw posts about how easy Sosua was about mongering? It was considered mongering on training wheels? And how Santo Domingo was for experienced mongers who know what they are doing. Remember how old vets sort of mocked the mongers that were still going to Sosua, and that they had moved on?

Well right now, this is the time a monger needs some experience in knowing how to navigate in Sosua and get the most out of it, regardless of the political turmoil or venue closings. All those that have bailed because of closings, chica arrests etc, have basically declared that they are not cut out for adapting to change. They need those training wheels.

On the idea of advising friends on if Sosua is a viable place to retire to. I think it is. With a few caveats. If he is an expat like myself, who does not require certain venues to be open in order to cope, is not in vacation mode so he has no need to fulfil a quotaof chicas for his vacation. He can very well live in or close to Sosua. The benefit of already being an expat, is that I'm living through all of the changes I see around me. I have no sense of loss or doom like what is felt back in the matrix. Because in my opinion, that's the reaction that I sense from enough mongers not only from this forum, but others.

Me and my expat friends feel no such concern. Whatever happens, happens. Day to day living is still great. On another note, I believe in keeping things simple. And I've kept it simple the entire time. I will never complicate my life by retiring, and then try to open a business. Flying under the radar is one of the best assets you have in living abroad. It amazes me how many guys want to live in the DR, but not satisfied with just retiring. They have to open a business. By not having a business, do you know how much stress a person eliminated from their life? Another thing, I don't advise mongers to buy property just because they loved their mongering lifestyle. And want to continue it in retirement.

I always advise guys to rent and live in the DR for a while. Once the novelty of living in the DR falls off, the thrill of being close to juice will fall off too. Sosua is a place a dude can love without the p4 p right in your face. Getting chicks and juice is easy, it doesn't have to come just from Sosua. You don't need Sosua just for that. I also advise guys not to invest too much money on a place to live. Live decent but don't spend a fortune on rent. I started off paying only $350 a month rent. And it hasnt changed ever since I took on the place. Look at me now. I have another place on the other side of the world. The rent and expenses are almost the same. But I may not have been able to do it, if I was knee deep paying rent in one place. I gave my self the flexibility to live anywhere else I want. Not just in Sosua. I did what I need to do when I was working, so I can afford to do whatever I want financially without needing to earn income from a job or opening a business.

IMO, that's what a retiring individual should consider. Grow into retirement abroad. Don't put too much into one place until you really know where you want to stay. You might find out you want to live in a totally different country. I recall a ytuber, who paid a nice chunk of cash to buy his condo in Sosua. Outgrew the place in about a year and a half, then end up moving to PP. Paying for a place over there. Thats what happens when being hasty in decision making. Granted he may have sold the 1st place and made a profit, but that was still a huge risk. To cough up that much cash, and eventually realize you rather live elsewhere.

Guys from the states need to spend their time talking to wise dudes in the trenches that may offer solid advice / counsel. Lastly, often enough the needs of a 60 something year old is going to be quite different than a 40 ish pushing 50 dude eligible for retirement. Vacationing mongers often have a different outlook than expats who have been living abroad for awhile.[/QUOTE]I agree 100%. This should be required reading for all rookies!

[QUOTE=Wrx2005;2394963]Guys from the states need to spend their time talking to wise dudes in the trenches that may offer solid advice / counsel. Lastly, often enough the needs of a 60 something year old is going to be quite different than a 40 ish pushing 50 dude eligible for retirement. Vacationing mongers often have a different outlook than expats who have been living abroad for awhile.[/QUOTE]I had to reread my entire post, and I picked this part out as what you may have been referring to?

When I said, the needs of a 60 something yr old would be quite different than a 40 ish pushing 50 dude, I was merely acknowledging that an older dude (expat even) can't assume his needs, interests and motivations would be the same as someone younger consdiering retirement abroad. Meaning, an older dude or expat does not set the bar for everybody. A younger dude, or different dude may have his own interests and motivations. And therefore, the expat older dudes opinion and perspective may be moot or non applicable for someone else. I said this at the end, to buffer the strong biased opinions I was offering earlier in the message. But I wasnt clear or throrough in what I was getting at.

When I talked about vacationing mongers have a different outlook than expats, I was considering that too. Expats can get to a place where they are content. Wheras a vacationing monger may have a different vision or motivation. Each can appreciate where the other is coming from. Even learn from each other. For instance what I learned, is that vacationing mongers tend to dive head on into what Sosua has to offer. Wheras expats can be too reserved at times. They tend to stick to what's familiar. Sometimes that's a good thing, sometimes it's not.

For vacationing mongers they can potentially appreciate the expats perspective on just enjoying living abroad, living under the radar, and realizing that one may find mongering less of a priority once they live abroad for a while. And definitely won't be posting potentially inflammatory content on Ytube for the world to see.

So I guess I was stating an opinion without explaining it's significance overall.


Oh and the part about guys need to talk to the guys in the trenches. I was referring to not relying on Ytubers who may not have a clue when it comes to advising other guys on pertinent info. One in particular used to post videoa that had all kinds of incorrect information. Even tried to repeat a story about an accident I had, spouting wrong information. There were several examples of him posting other videos on inaccurate information. And had a bunch of followers from the states enamored with his videos.

So again, I was vague about what I meant about guys need to talk to guys in the trenches. But that is where I was going with that. One of the most important things I hope guys get. Just because the guy is on you tube, doesnt mean he is honest or can be trusted. The 1st thing i notice is many rarely tell you to talk to the vets and expats if you need to know whats up. Instead many get to the point that they want you to rely on them for information, and also support them financially. What I offer guys that come to Sosua is for free. I enjoy helping guys as much as i can.

[QUOTE=Wrx2005;2395114]The reason I frown on starting a business especially soon after retirement, is because, a guy that just retires doesn't really know what he is going to be doing with himself yet.[/QUOTE]Besides that, the average person starting these things has probably never run a business before, so he is already behind the 8-ball. And like you said, in 3rd world countries you have to deal with tons of bureaucracy and the police. Everyone will have their hands out for a piece of your pie.

All one has to do is look around. If you don't see anyone else thriving from it, then it is probably not a good idea. Surely people came before you with the same dollar signs in their eyes. What happened to them?

There is an expat saying in Thailand that holds true here as well: If you want to make a small fortune in Thailand, then start with a large one. (I see restaurants and bars come and I see them go.) These places we travel to are meant to be used by us rich foreigners to relax and take it easy, not to add undue stress to our lives.

[QUOTE=Wrx2005;2395129]I had to reread my entire post, and I picked this part out as what you may have been referring to?

When I said, the needs of a 60 something yr old would be quite different than a 40 ish pushing 50 dude, I was merely acknowledging that an older dude (expat even) can't assume his needs, interests and motivations would be the same as someone younger consdiering retirement abroad. Meaning, an older dude or expat does not set the bar for everybody. A younger dude, or different dude may have his own interests and motivations. And therefore, the expat older dudes opinion and perspective may be moot or non applicable for someone else. I said this at the end, to buffer the strong biased opinions I was offering earlier in the message. But I wasnt clear or throrough in what I was getting at.

So I guess I was stating an opinion without explaining it's significance overall.

So again, I was vague about what I meant about guys need to talk to guys in the trenches. But that is where I was going with that. One of the most important things I hope guys get. Just because the guy is on you tube, doesnt mean he is honest or can be trusted. [/QUOTE]Bro trust, me I didn't take it directly. But I'm glad you dumb down for me. You are one of my favorite posters. I didn't calling you Sigmund Freud in the pass out of disrespect. I said it because I respect your insights and you give a very meaningful new and insightful approach to looking at things.

Man those guys are catching it trying to keep the business afloat? Once again a different approach In looking at things. I can't wait till I have a chance to really sit down and talk with you. I think you're the only one that can convince me to try the West. Mr. E is prejudice and Gogo is done.

I like your posts Grownman very insightful. The X man's posts have improved dramatically. The extended vacation must have helped.

The part about different views of expats verses tourists is especially on point. I've been writing from the prospective of a expat while catching flack on the DR forum from tourists. And all the while never having a single factual piece of information that I posted about Santo Domingo este successfully changed by anyone. None of us vets posting have anything to gain from it. In fact we are using our valuable time to contribute. So, I'm afraid that entire part about listening to vets is really going to fall on deaf eyes. But it remains good advice.

I would add that not only age, but geography within the same country matters also. I give information and advice on este where I live. Everywhere else that I have just visited is my opinion.