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[QUOTE=BloodRed;2944147]I have made it crystal clear that I do not have a horse in this race... [/QUOTE]Then a whole load of incoherent ranting reposting untrue theories right from the Kremlin's asshole, which were debunked in this very thread years ago.
[QUOTE=BloodRed;2944147]So yes, because of all these reasons, I am backing Russia[/QUOTE]This is why you are difficult to take seriously.
[QUOTE=BloodRed;2944147]Read the famous memo from Bill Burns where he clearly states that Russia will not tolerate Ukraine in NATO from years ago.[/QUOTE][URL]https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/08MOSCOW265_a.html[/URL]
[QUOTE=BloodRed;2944151]You will soon realize that Ukraine will indeed have to come to grips will reality and concede territory in exchange for peace. Of course they won't want to, but that is the reality.
And if Ukraine does not sign a peace deal by ceding territory, Russia is just going to grab more territory and keep what it has already captured and kill more and more AFU soldiers until Ukraine has had enough and can't keep fighting. Or until there is a collapse of AFU. In both those scenarios, you will end up with a frozen conflict similar to the 2 Koreas. Russia will keep the territory they have annexed and will very likely grab more and annex more. That in my opinion is the most likely outcome IMHO. So the sooner Ukraine negotiates, the better it will be for them.
In 2021, the peace terms before the war were very generous.
In Istanbul 2022 it was just the Donbas + Crimea + neutrality that was demanded.
Now it's the 4 new territories. It is Istanbul PLUS.
So it is in Ukraine's interest to sue for peace now.[/QUOTE]Good analysis. Correct, the west and Ukraine don't recognize reality. Russia's not going to give up and go home without saving face.
It's easy to be an armchair warrior. It's not so easy to die a bloody death or to live the rest of your life paralyzed or without limbs. If the grunts on the front lines were making the decisions, this war would be over.
The USA is bankrolling this war. And 70% of Americans polled wanted the American administration to push Ukraine towards a negotiated settlement as soon as possible.
Drama free and Elvis, you're part of the silent majority.
[URL]https://responsiblestatecraft.org/ukraine-peace-talks-poll/[/URL]
[QUOTE=Tiny12;2944319]The USA is bankrolling this war. And 70% of Americans polled wanted the American administration to push Ukraine towards a negotiated settlement as soon as possible.
Drama free and Elvis, you're part of the silent majority.
[URL]https://responsiblestatecraft.org/ukraine-peace-talks-poll/[/URL][/QUOTE]A negotiated settlement would include the withdrawal of invading Orcs, and return of territories to Ukraine including Donbass and Crimea. So I am not surprised so many were in favor.
[QUOTE=VinDici;2944216]Then a whole load of incoherent ranting reposting untrue theories right from the Kremlin's asshole, which were debunked in this very thread years ago.
This is why you are difficult to take seriously.[/QUOTE]You do not have an argument, which is why you resorted to selective quotation.
[QUOTE=Tiny12;2944303][URL]https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/08MOSCOW265_a.html[/URL]
Good analysis. Correct, the west and Ukraine don't recognize reality. Russia's not going to give up and go home without saving face.
It's easy to be an armchair warrior. It's not so easy to die a bloody death or to live the rest of your life paralyzed or without limbs. If the grunts on the front lines were making the decisions, this war would be over.[/QUOTE]The war will end (become a frozen conflict basically) when there are no Ukrainians left to send to the battlefield to die, or when there is a collapse. The average age of the Ukrainian soldier is already around 45. Fighting wars is for men in their 20's ideally. And women are already being sent to the front line. Entire generations of men have been wiped out. And they want this to continue. Horrific.
[quote=vindici;2944342]a negotiated settlement would include the withdrawal of invading orcs, and return of territories to ukraine including donbass and crimea. .[/quote]delusional.
[QUOTE=BloodRed;2944390]delusional.[/QUOTE]The Orcs are all in on Trump winning the election. If he doesn't win, none of what you are proposing will come to pass.
[QUOTE=VinDici;2944342]A negotiated settlement would include the withdrawal of invading Orcs, and return of territories to Ukraine including Donbass and Crimea. So I am not surprised so many were in favor.[/QUOTE]You forgot reparations.
[QUOTE=JohnClayton;2944427]You forgot reparations.[/QUOTE]These guys are comical. And delusional. As they say, if wishes were horses, then beggars would ride them. That would mean the corrupt dictator Zelensky lol.
[QUOTE=VinDici;2944411]The Orcs are all in on Trump winning the election. If he doesn't win, none of what you are proposing will come to pass.[/QUOTE]Trump or Harris, it will make no difference to the final outcome which will be a Russian victory. And yes, you can write that down.
[QUOTE=BloodRed;2944486]Trump or Harris, it will make no difference to the final outcome which will be a Russian victory. And yes, you can write that down.[/QUOTE]After the dissolution of the FSB, it will be revealed that Trump is a wholly owned asset of the Kremlin. Russia's pro Trump propaganda campaign was relatively small in 2016, and they were amazed by its success. Since then, it has spent hundreds of millions of dollars to maintain Trump in power and extend their corruption and ownership of the Republican party. So, of course, there is an obvious difference in the expected outcomes between electing Harris and Trump.
Okay, I've written down your prediction. How about writing this down? Dagestan, Chechnya, Siberia, Karelia, Bashkortostan. These regions all have substantial forces engaged against Russian imperialism in Ukraine. After the collapse of the Russian army, what do you predict these separatist battalions are going to do? Go home peacefully to Dagestan? For your own mental well being, I suggest to at least try and imagine this.
[URL]https://www.nytimes.com/2024/09/13/us/p[/URL] . A-war. Html.
Excellent, realistic plan by J. The Vance and Trump to end the Ukraine war. Looks like some sense is finally starting to prevail in the collective West.
Mr. Vance said Mr. Trump would sit down with Russians, Ukrainians and Europeans and say, "You guys need to figure out what a peaceful settlement looks like. " he went on to outline what he thinks a deal would entail: The Russians would retain the land they have taken and a demilitarized zone would be established along the current battle lines, with the Ukrainian side heavily fortified to prevent another Russian invasion.
While the remainder of Ukraine would remain an independent sovereign state, Mr. Vance said, Russia would get a "guarantee of neutrality" from Ukraine.
[QUOTE=BloodRed;2944933][URL]https://www.nytimes.com/2024/09/13/us/p[/URL] ...Excellent, realistic plan by J. The Vance and Trump to end the Ukraine war. Looks like some sense is finally starting to prevail in the collective West....[/QUOTE]Unsurprisingly, it's identical to Putin's plan. The most disturbing thing to me, and the principal reason I'm voting for Democrats, is the capitulation of the Republican party to Trump...and Putin.
[QUOTE=JohnClayton;2944943]Unsurprisingly, it's identical to Putin's plan. The most disturbing thing to me, and the principal reason I'm voting for Democrats, is the capitulation of the Republican party to Trump...and Putin.[/QUOTE]It's the only realistic plan. You can keep chasing a fantasy and in the process be OK with tens of thousands of more Ukrainians dying. What a sick mindset.