Bangkok Reports

[QUOTE=Wolvenvacht;1731419]If I remember my economy lessons well, in a market of willing sellers and willing buyers with full freedom to enter or leave the market, the "invisible hand" will always cause the market to come to an equilibrium. High prices or scarcity of supply will allow more sellers to enter the market.

But by definition, the majority of the new entrants will be "average" (i.e. less quality than the top), who will be unable to sell for the top price, so the median price goes down and the scarcity goes away, which depresses the price also.

That will attract more buyers and they will compete for the sellers which drives the price up again. The end-price is determined by how fast sellers and providers will enter and leave the market and how fast prices adjust. A typical "predator - prey" scenario.

And indeed, low prices will favour better quality (over all the market) since with low prices, more sellers will be forced out of the market and only the best products will be able to maintain their appeal and market share. High prices allow everyone to enter and as always there are more "average" providers than top (or for that matter, bottom) providers. Low prices will skew that distribution towards the "better" side, relatively speaking.

In that respect "better" girls will NOT have better career options: it are the lower ranked girls who have the most chances to make as much (or more) in the regular economy. The top girls will struggle to find a job sitting in an office that makes them as much as they can make through the Game.[/QUOTE]Most gals don't want to work as hookers and will take a lower paying job in order to not have to prostitute themselves. In fact, I have known very few gals who were not looking for a way to get out of the game. Good lookers can now get decent paying jobs as "pretties" or other types or presenters. So it is not a market that most are looking to "get into. ".

Eco 101 just like Politics 101 or Logic 101 gets a bit of a revamp in Asia. There are cultural aspects that we as Westerners just don't factor in when we look at things over here. We want it to fit into "our" model, but sorry it just doesn't. If there is one thing I have learned in my years here is that things rarely go "according to Hoyle. ".

Let's take the oilies for example. One would think that with more oilies opening the competition for the customer would lead to better service as each individual business competes for customers. But the converse has occurred. Why? Because some of the oilies have relaxed performance standards in order to attract and keep more attractive gals and in turn the traditional PSE shops have had to somewhat do the same. So service has not improved as the businesses have to cater to the providers as opposed to the customers. GoGos have often been the same, playing music that suits the gals as opposed to music that suits the customer. I have never seen a "market" that is completely dominated by the seller as the P4 P industry. Just shows you how powerless we dudes really are.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1731348]Sun, I would say there are far fewer Western mongers here than there ever were. As far as Asian are concerned, probably more than before, but to be honest for my first 10 years here the bars were heaving every night of the week. That includes the smaller bars. I think aggregate demand is down. Yes, the gals are more tech savvy, but just because they have more avenues to market themselves does not mean the number of customers has increased. Judging from the crowds or lack there of in the GoGos and hearing the women in the oilies complain about lack of customers then I would tend to believe there are fewer punters around. The majority of younger guys I know here (20's and 30's) are really not into the P4 P scene at all. In fact, they are "grossed out" and offended by it.

The interesting stat would be how the number of Thai dudes in the P4 P scene has changed over the past 15 years.[/QUOTE]I agree with your comment that the current set of Gen why's (20 - 30 year olds) are very much against sex tourism. When I was that age, I couldn't get enough. The new lot are all politically correct and sensitive having been brainwashed by their left-wing female school teachers (in Australia, there are virtually no male primary / elementary school teachers). Besides, I think the young Western dudes use social media exclusively for hooking up with girls in their own countries. A trip to Thailand means you can't score. The new age, sensitive dude is more likely to visit Thailand with his new age, sensitive white girlfriend. I don't think a trip to Nana Plaza would be on the itinerary.

Despite world stock market and property prices remaining high, I still don't think the world economy is in good shape. Europe hasn't fully recovered from 2008, mining has completely collapsed in Australia, coal and oil prices are low, etc. Many potential mongers are worried about their jobs, house mortgages and rising cost of living. A trip to Thailand is not going to happen right now.

Someone has mentioned before on this forum that the size of the P4 P market in Thailand for foreigners (Pattaya, Soi Cowboy, Nana Plaza and Patpong) is insignificant compared to what the locals play in, so I don't think it is going to concern too many people.

With service standards dropping, more girls providing mediocre service and prices rising, I'm sure many mature punters are questioning the value of a trip to Thailand. They can probably remember their first trip to BKK when things were a lot different.

[QUOTE=EngineDriver;1731470]I agree with your comment that the current set of Gen why's (20 - 30 year olds) are very much against sex tourism. When I was that age, I couldn't get enough. The new lot are all politically correct and sensitive having been brainwashed by their left-wing female school teachers (in Australia, there are virtually no male primary / elementary school teachers). Besides, I think the young Western dudes use social media exclusively for hooking up with girls in their own countries. A trip to Thailand means you can't score. The new age, sensitive dude is more likely to visit Thailand with his new age, sensitive white girlfriend. I don't think a trip to Nana Plaza would be on the itinerary.

Despite world stock market and property prices remaining high, I still don't think the world economy is in good shape. Europe hasn't fully recovered from 2008, mining has completely collapsed in Australia, coal and oil prices are low, etc. Many potential mongers are worried about their jobs, house mortgages and rising cost of living. A trip to Thailand is not going to happen right now.

Someone has mentioned before on this forum that the size of the P4 P market in Thailand for foreigners (Pattaya, Soi Cowboy, Nana Plaza and Patpong) is insignificant compared to what the locals play in, so I don't think it is going to concern too many people.

With service standards dropping, more girls providing mediocre service and prices rising, I'm sure many mature punters are questioning the value of a trip to Thailand. They can probably remember their first trip to BKK when things were a lot different.[/QUOTE]I think all your comments are spot on. And I will add to that many of the savvy P4 P gals are getting customers solely online these days. And who can blame them? Why sit in tthe BG, Thermae, or work in an oily when you don't have to. I think that is very much true of the local P4 P scene. It is also far more discreet.

Thailand is expensive and for North Americans especially it is a lot cheaper to hit the DR, CR, or even South America. And you don't have to deal with jet lag. Europeans have closer options as well.

[QUOTE=NattyBumpo;1729525]If you can find quality girls in your home market for 3 k ST then I advise you to stay where you are. For some reason, perhaps just my personal taste, I don't believe this price point is real, not for quality anyway.

Now here in Asia, high prices are prevalent EVERYWHERE in the P4 P arena and so far the price increases have done nothing to affect aggregate demand. I firmly believe, however, that at some point higher prices in ASIA will begin to affect aggregate demand. When that happens the market price will drop like a ton of bricks. I can't wait, but until that day of market reckoning, I am going to continue to visit my favorite Asian watering holes because 1) I like Asian girls, 2) for some reason I am still getting damn good service, and 3) I can still afford it. I am never going to go to Africa no matter how cheap it is there and it is not that cheap, BTW. I just don't find sub Saharan girls attractive. I have traveled around SA extensively in its hey day (the 80'sand 90's) and don't feel like returning there. I don't like the vibe and guess what ? Quality poontang is expensive in SA too. Lastly, American and European girls suck IMHO. There is something in the water here that ruins the girls in the West. Even Asian girls who live in the West a short time, change. To get anywhere near the quality service I am used to in Asia, I would have to spend a $1000 or more which is above my max price point.

So Asia is my last stand and the bad news is high quality Asian girls (7* and above) in Jakarta, Makati, Macau, Singapore, Hong Kong are getting $200/ session and more depending on the venue. Even in Phnom Penh, FL's at Darling Darling are getting $100ST which was an unheard of price just a few years ago. And Darling Darling is packed, standing room only every night, with mostly Asian customers clearly illustrating that high prices have not adversely affected demand. Then in our beloved BKK; the all in price for Go Go girls (BF + tip+ drinks) is well north of $100. The price for oily massage girls is averaging 2300 bt. And get this: I dropped by La Belle a few times during my trip and I was shocked by the low numbers of girls available in my favorite soapy at any price. I even walked out one time because the selection was so meager. Another time I selected the hottest girl, a sideliner, in the joint. Her price 6000 was bt. The highest price I ever paid in BKK. Service was good although she would not let me take any pictures. WTF! She said that next time camera time would be on the menu. Ha Ha.

So as prices continue to rise across the board, I am waiting for aggregate demand to drop, but it has not so far. In 5 years I expect prices will be significantly higher than they are now. I hope I am wrong. Let's wait and see. This is a very interesting Economic phenomenon.[/QUOTE]Yes in UK and Germany you can ST very good looking British, German, East-Euro, Latina, Asian girls for £60 or €50 for 30 mins not all will be great, but that's why it's called punting.

You're mistaken when you said to get the quality of service you'd have to pay $1000, how much we pay has no link to how good the service is, that's like comparing hookers to cars, a Ferrari is a better drive than a Ford, you can't say the same with hookers.

Hey guys,

I will be staying in BKK June 19-24. My first time. I already get a picture of where to go and what to see while I'm there.

But I know no one in BKK, so If you guys could tell me where you hang out for nice pint of beer in between Bangkoking I'd gladly join.

I'm 30 and can keep up on multiple topics from sports to politics.

Cheers

[QUOTE=Jerboa;1731513]Yes in UK and Germany you can ST very good looking British, German, East-Euro, Latina, Asian girls for 60 or 50 for 30 mins not all will be great, but that's why it's called punting.

You're mistaken when you said to get the quality of service you'd have to pay $1000, how much we pay has no link to how good the service is, that's like comparing hookers to cars, a Ferrari is a better drive than a Ford, you can't say the same with hookers.[/QUOTE]Exactly. Which is why I am astonished that now so many dudes are willing to pay Ferrari prices for a Toyota.

In the North China forum Bad Boy Billy just posted a photo of two Mongolian gals he plucked from Maggies in Beijing. IMHO, they don't make 'them much hotter. Describes them both as PSE experiences. He paid 1 k Yuan (161 USD) each for them. 2 hour sesh. If that was the quality of looks we were getting here along with PSE performance I would have no issues handing over that kind of cash.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1731765]In the North China forum Bad Boy Billy just posted a photo of two Mongolian gals he plucked from Maggies in Beijing. IMHO, they don't make 'them much hotter. He paid 1 k Yuan (161 USD) each for them. 2 hour sesh. If that was the quality of looks we were getting here along with PSE performance I would have no issues handing over that kind of cash.[/QUOTE]I hate the never ending money vs quality debate. It is boring and no side can win the issue. Spend what you want based on your preferences and what you can afford. I do.

Meanwhile, Mongolians are among my favorite girls on the planet. I still recall a Mongolian beauty I met at Hari's Bar one night in Hong Kong back in 2010 or 2011. She was simply gorgeous and yet very exotic. Her price was 2000 hk for all night. She was worth it IMHO. Unfortunately Mongolians are rarely sighted nowadays in HKG or Macau. I have thought about visiting Ulanbaatar even though I travel mostly in March and April. If the reports on the Mongolian thread were more positive and upbeat about the local scene, I would take my down jacket out of the closet and give it a go. Ha Ha.

Bad Billy's girls look great from behind. I wish he had posted a face shot, but I understand why he did not.

[QUOTE=NattyBumpo;1731775]I hate the never ending money vs quality debate. It is boring and no side can win the issue. Spend what you want based on your preferences and what you can afford. I do.

Meanwhile, Mongolians are among my favorite girls on the planet. I still recall a Mongolian beauty I met at Hari's Bar one night in Hong Kong back in 2010 or 2011. She was simply gorgeous and yet very exotic. Her price was 2000 hk for all night. She was worth it IMHO. Unfortunately Mongolians are rarely sighted nowadays in HKG or Macau. I have thought about visiting Ulanbaatar even though I travel mostly in March and April. If the reports on the Mongolian thread were more positive and upbeat about the local scene, I would take my down jacket out of the closet and give it a go. Ha Ha.

Bad Billy's girls look great from behind. I wish he had posted a face shot, but I understand why he did not.[/QUOTE]Had some friends who were recently in Ulan. Not really a great place for P4 P these days. The local dudes really have it out for foreigners at the current time. And really do not like to see them with the local lasses.

Faces are far less important to me than bodies. Of course a gal with the face of a she goat is never ok, but a marginal face and an amazing body does for me far more than a marginal body and a great face.

Confirmed reports that the renowned and very successful Manager of several bars in Nana Plaza for almost two decades has left for a new posting in Patpong. I'm sure Dave will continue his record of success in his new venture.

Regards,

BJ

[QUOTE=NattyBumpo;1731775]I hate the never ending money vs quality debate. It is boring and no side can win the issue. Spend what you want based on your preferences and what you can afford. I do.

Meanwhile, Mongolians are among my favorite girls on the planet. I still recall a Mongolian beauty I met at Hari's Bar one night in Hong Kong back in 2010 or 2011. She was simply gorgeous and yet very exotic. Her price was 2000 hk for all night. She was worth it IMHO. Unfortunately Mongolians are rarely sighted nowadays in HKG or Macau. I have thought about visiting Ulanbaatar even though I travel mostly in March and April. If the reports on the Mongolian thread were more positive and upbeat about the local scene, I would take my down jacket out of the closet and give it a go. Ha Ha.

Bad Billy's girls look great from behind. I wish he had posted a face shot, but I understand why he did not.[/QUOTE]I don't think you need to go all the way to UB to find them. There are plenty of them in Beijing working bars like Maggie's.

Though I hesitate to recommend that place. I had two bad experiences with Mongolian girls there. But it is a pretty big club/bar plenty of available girls. Maybe it was just my bad luck. Maybe you can do better (like BB Billy).

[QUOTE=DrBJ;1731406]This is more of a question than a report. I was recently in Cowboy 2 with two friends and in the course of a conversation with one of the girls she told me that they have a 2 tier system for barfines, all the young good looking girls are 3000 BF and the same again for ST? Apparently there are "standard" girls AKA fat or ugly for 800 BF. My question is has Cowboy 2 been taken over by the Arab? As the pressure to buy drinks seems to suggest it has.

Regards,

BJ[/QUOTE]I was in this bar a couple of months ago with a Chinese business friend and we experienced the same. After googling for a while my Chinese friend "fell in love" with a really beautiful young girl. She looked only 18 but was one of the cutest girl I have ever seen in Soi Cowboy. We asked the barfine and she replied 3000 bath. WTF? We thought she is only kidding us as most barfines are 600 - 1000 in the area. But the price was confirmed by others in the bar. From the perspective of the bar I can see this as a way of keeping the most attractive girls in the bar the whole evening, but we left. We do not want to encourage this system and hope it does not spread. I do not know if the "Arab" owns this bar also. Someone will probably know the details on this. There are tons of info about the go-go industry on [URL]www.stickmanbangkok.com[/URL] but from one of his columns in September 2014 he says; "Unlike Nana Plaza, Soi Cowboy is not owned by just one person or group, but a bunch of unrelated, unconnected landlords." For the punters, the actual owners are of less interest I guess, but it is not in favour of the punters that such price system becomes the norm. I guess we just have to accept the fact that some bars have "Coyotes" and that some girls are not available for barfine. But hey, there are other options. A pity really, because I like Cowboy 2. Lots of eye-candy here most of the time (and now I understand why).

This bar is one of the most popular bar in Soi Cowboy because the lineup is quite attractive. But, recently, I had a bad experience with one of the gogo dancers. I came twice to the bar and was attracted by one of the stunners (I guess #17). However, both time, she was already talking with customers and they quickly barfined her. She has a very sweet smile. So, I eventually came a third time, and fortunately, she was free. We started to chat, After few lady drinks, I ask her for barfine. She was expecting 6 K for a long time which is a fairly high price for SC, so I started to negotiate and we agreed for 5 K with possible bonus.

We left the bar and went together for dinner in a nearby thai restaurant. She started to chat on her smartphone with her friend. Suddenly, she start laughing loudly and announced that she cannot come with me now because she pretended that she forgot something in the bar. She proposed me to come to my hotel one hour later. Since I was not happy with that, she proposed me to return the barfine, but I was really attracted by this girl and I declined and I agreed for her to meet later in the hotel. We exchanged our contacts, then she left.

Of course, she never showed up in my hotel. So we started to chat angrily on whatsapp. I requested her to return the barfine. She pretended to be too tired to come to the bar the following day. So I eventually met her in the bar the second day. She started to ignore myself. Then I become quite mad and directly went to the mamasan. We had a quick chat and I explained that I was highly disappointed with this girl. Of course, They did not return my barfine.

I came many time to SC, but I never experienced such capricious princess behavior before.

[QUOTE=Aviator12;1731957] We asked the barfine and she replied 3000 bath. WTF? We thought she is only kidding us as most barfines are 600 - 1000 in the area...... I guess we just have to accept the fact that some bars have "Coyotes" and that some girls are not available for barfine. But hey, there are other options. A pity really, because I like Cowboy 2. Lots of eye-candy here most of the time (and now I understand why).[/QUOTE]If barfine is 3000 I'd hate to hear what LT will cost. Is this the standard barfine for all Cowboy 2 girls or just the top ones? If the girl was the best I've seen and I get a sense of chemistry with her I'd barfine as long as LT was not crazy as well.

What percentage of girls are not available for sex in a club like Cowboy 2?

In all the videos I watch of BKK Cowboy 2 is one of the few clubs I see girls I like.

There seems to be a worrying trend regarding the go-go's in Soi Cowboy. High prices, aggressive drinks requests and bad attitudes seem to abound. Now I wouldn't go as far to say the place is a write off just yet but the bars worth going to seem to be getting fewer and fewer. Off the top of my head Long Gun, Suzi Wong, Baccara and Crazy House seem to be the best options. That is a sad reflection compared to 5 or 6 years ago. With Patpong cleaning itself up in recent years it could be that Soi Cowboy and Patpong are in danger of switching places. I've heard that the rental agreements in Nana Plaza are expiring very soon and will need to be re-negotiated. Mongering in these places seems to be under a bit of pressure.

Regards,

BJ