[QUOTE=Tiny12;2960227]Neoconservative.[/QUOTE]Given what he has posted on Covid, I would say more fascist than neoconservative. He wants one party rule by Democrats. All he cares about is his SS check and nothing more.
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[QUOTE=Tiny12;2960227]Neoconservative.[/QUOTE]Given what he has posted on Covid, I would say more fascist than neoconservative. He wants one party rule by Democrats. All he cares about is his SS check and nothing more.
[QUOTE=Paulie97;2959991]This is Russian propaganda. Why not post it in the Russia forum, the far more appropriate place for you, Blood Red, Tiny, and Elvis to hangout?
[/QUOTE]Why don't you quit insulting people and get your facts right Mr. Kamala went to Harvard?
[QUOTE=BloodRed;2959144]Hopefully Trump plays a part in putting an end to this savage needless war. I don't think the Russians will be interested in a frozen conflict type of deal where NATO continues to arm Ukraine and says Ukraine won't join NATO for say 20 years. Not going to have any of that non sense.[/QUOTE]BR, Putin is a scum bag. Everyone knows that. Thing is the idiotic Democrats believed that Trump won in 2016 because of Putin. They really did. Because they felt like Trump won because of Putin, their goal was to "weaken Putin" thinking that would allow them to win in 2024.
Thing about the Democratic douches is they keep going back to this mindless Russian propaganda bullshit because they think Trump won because of Russian propaganda.
The funny part about this massive landslide is Trump got about the same number of votes as he did in 2020 about 75 million.
Thing is when you look at how much the Democratic candidate got: it was 63 million for Obama in 2012,66 million for Hiliary in 2016, and Kamala got 70 million in 2024. There is nothing out of the ordinary there right?
The problem is in 2020 Biden got 81.4 million votes which means 11 million voters failed to show up for Kamala or that is the number of votes Democrats created out of thin air. I do not know where you fall on this issue, but I will tell you that I believe that a huge portion of those votes were fake, and I think that a large portion of that cheating was justified by compensating for the way Russia supposedly cheated in 2016.
There is no way Democrats can bring out another bullshit Russiagate story again. Keep in mind that the truckers protesting in Canada in 2021 were supposedly backed by Putin as well.
The Democrats elected someone as their candidate who did not get a single vote in a primary and staged a coup against Biden. Their candidate was so fake that every time she spoke it was memorized or off a teleprompter. She needed 60 minutes to edit her interview and refused to go on Joe Rogan when Rogan refused that their interview be edited.
So with the Democratic douches who believe Russia is evil, that Russia attacked Ukraine versus being provoked is an easy story to swallow but what now? Well, you can see how pathetic and finger pointing the reaction is here now? What you can see is a bunch of people finger pointing at the flaws of others versus acknowledging that they were duped.
As for what happens next, I think Trump has been talking to Putin through intermediate sources for a long time and knows what Russia can live with. The tricky part for me is putting in a clause that some Democrat cannot just undo in 4 years or later.
[QUOTE=Tiny12;2960230]While I would particularly appreciate Blood Red's thoughts, any board member's [B]civil[/B] input would be appreciated.
The Telegraph and the Wall Street Journal recently broke a story based on reports from several unnamed Trump staffers. Trump's peace plans sound a lot like what J. D. Vance has been saying. Here's an outline.
The current line between the two sides would be frozen in place.
Ukraine would agree to shelve its ambition to join NATO for 20 years.
The USA And Europe would pump Ukraine full of weapons for purposes of deterrence.
The USA Would not contribute troops to patrol the buffer zone nor would it finance the mission. (I know, this conflicts with the previous point.) Instead Europeans would. The WSJ quotes an unnamed source, ""We can do training and other support but the barrel of the gun is going to be European. We are not sending American men and women to uphold peace in Ukraine. And we are not paying for it. Get the Poles, Germans, British and French to do it. ".
Do you think this plan is workable? A good starting point for negotiations? There are obvious aspects the Russians and Ukrainians won't like. And putting all the burden on the Europeans while the USA Is calling the shots would create problems. Are the Europeans going to be like UN peacekeepers? Or armed to the teeth? If the later then Russia would have NATO on its doorstep. That would probably be a nonstarter.
There's an interesting quote in the Telegraph article from George Osborne, who was David Cameron's Chancellor of the Exchequer and First Secretary of State:
"Is it realistic to expect a complete victory for Ukraine, the complete ejection of Russia from Ukrainian territory? And if it's not, you know, it may suit our vanity in the West to say 'plucky Ukrainians', but it's not our children who are dying," the former chancellor said.
It's also totally unrealistic, in my view, to think that Europe alone, including the UK, can go on supporting Ukraine without the support of the United States, even though Joe Biden actually is rushing to spend the $61 billion that Congress recently voted in terms of American aid for Ukraine before he leaves office. ".
[URL]https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/11/07/donald-trump-ukraine-peace-plan-british-troops-buffer-zone/[/URL][/QUOTE]The current line between the two sides would be frozen in place. - No, we don't need it and won't allow it.
Ukraine would agree to shelve its ambition to join NATO for 20 years. - No, why? We won't agree to it.
The USA And Europe would pump Ukraine full of weapons for purposes of deterrence. - Already doing it and we destroy it. Pump more and we are going to supply forces inside Ukraine with weapons against NATO countries.
The USA Would not contribute troops to patrol the buffer zone nor would it finance the mission. (I know, this conflicts with the previous point.) Instead Europeans would. The WSJ quotes an unnamed source, ""We can do training and other support but the barrel of the gun is going to be European. We are not sending American men and women to uphold peace in Ukraine. And we are not paying for it. Get the Poles, Germans, British and French to do it. ". - They would be considered intervention forces and be hit with tactical nuclear weapons.
The best Ukraine can do is to hold elections, agree to Putin's plan and become a federal state, non-nuclear, non-aligned on Austrian way.
Question: Would it be considered open aggression against Russia if certain NATO member countries decide to lift restrictions on Kiev's use of long-range missiles to strike the Russian territory?
Sergey Lavrov: It is not entirely accurate to suggest that Western countries may grant permission for Kiev to use long-range weapons supplied to them for strikes on Russian territory. If such weapons are employed, it would signify that not only Ukraine but also NATO countries are openly fighting Russia, no longer bothering to conceal the presence of so-called mercenaries, volunteers, instructors, and other individuals "under false colours. " In other words, the true nature of the conflict, which Western leaders have attempted to obscure (albeit not very effectively), will be exposed. Russian President Vladimir Putin has addressed this issue.
It should be clear to all that Ukrainians cannot operate Western high-tech long-range weapons independently. They will have to rely on Western experts and intelligence, including information obtained from the NATO space group.
We must not overlook the fact that NATO has long ceased to hide its aggressive policies towards Russia. NATO strategies describe our country as "the most significant and direct threat to security. " The alliance's leadership frequently speaks of Russia allegedly planning to attack a NATO member state within the coming years. Europe is being militarised at an alarming pace. During their drills, NATO forces practice offensive operations against Russia.
Our opponents should not be under any illusions. In the event of aggressive actions by NATO or its individual member states against our country, an appropriate response will ensue, in full compliance with Russia's sovereign right to self-defence and the use of any means necessary to ensure its security, as stipulated in the UN Charter. And no one will be able to lie low, whether across the Atlantic Ocean or the English Channel.
Source: [URL]https://mid.ru/en/foreign_policy/news/themes/id/1979380/[/URL].
[QUOTE=Tiny12;2960228]There's no Stupid Shit in Moscow thread.
This thread would be dead without posters like us. I guess from time to time the gentlemen with your view could give each other "attaboys" though. Although given how things have developed, they would now be few and far between.[/QUOTE]There is a general info thread, and there is nothing stopping people from creating a new one in Russia for the war.
Whether this thread is dead or not, is irrelevant. The forum is primarily to discuss mongering not warfare and geopolitics.
[QUOTE=Paulie97;2960185]
[b]Spineless aka Tiny[/b]
That is my best nickname for Tiny, who says Elvis is a "free thinker," well how much fact checking do you think Elvis does? You are a syrupy, nauseating insult to true intellectuals, who by definition test the claims. They don't just believe it when some big mouth YouTuber lays out his latest provocative and spurious argument. They don't just swallow Trump's millionth lie. They fact check.
It's like the Marquis de Twot, and this stupid moron I met here in Medellin in Sweet Georgia Cafe who said he was a Marine. Well that's exactly what they mostly want in the Marines is meat heads. But he was going on about how Biden got so many more votes than Kamala, as proof of a stolen 2020 election. Okay got it, so I asked the 80 IQ guy where he thought all the extra votes came from in 2020, and he of course said illegals. Then I asked his dumbfuck ass why these illegals, who are now greater in numbers, didn't steal the latest election. He had no answer, so I guess he's only left with Jewish space lasers, or whatever hogwash Elvis can pull off the blogs. But that's free thought according to Spineless.[/QUOTE]
Apologies. That post was 100% directed at the Marquis and you were collateral damage. I picked the first Elvis post I came across that showed a position independent from the mainstream American political parties. I remember selectively quoting him to avoid the word "douche", but missed the second one. If I had it to do over I'd also put "..." in place of Paulie97.
I do share Elvis' general sentiment. I don't like my tax dollars being used to enable war and death. I'd much rather see them used to promote peace and reduce extreme poverty. There are some issues I don't agree with Elvis about, for example the "stolen" 2020 election you mentioned. But he is an "independent thinker." His posts, unlike most of what's in the politics forum, are often worth reading and original. Or at least I've never seen some of his ideas expressed in what I read. Admittedly he could stand to cut down on the mudslinging, as could you.
To your credit you haven't been throwing the word "coward" around like some posters here to describe board members you disagree with. "Spineless" fits that category though.
[QUOTE=Questner;2960280]The current line between the two sides would be frozen in place. - No, we don't need it and won't allow it.[/QUOTE]Why not? Russia's official position I believe is that it wants all of Kherson, Zaporizhzhia, Donetsk and Luhansk. It seems like modifying that to just the occupied territory wouldn't be that big of a pullback, to end the war.
[QUOTE=Questner;2960280]The best Ukraine can do is to hold elections, agree to Putin's plan and become a federal state, non-nuclear, non-aligned on Austrian way.[/QUOTE]Ukraine becoming like Austria, including becoming an EU state ASAP, could be an ideal solution. Europe would spend money building up a prosperous Ukraine instead of enabling a war. Actually ideally it would be great to see Ukraine and Russia as members of the EU and NATO someday in the future. It might have happened by now if not for the neoconservatives, and military and defense establishments who, through the years, depended on hostility toward Russia to maintain their power and funding.
That the Republican Americans here favor Putlers aggressive attitude. And honor it by agreeing to new borders, drawn by military aggression.
Because the USA would like to do the same, wright? What the RF can do, Gods own country can do as well.
Especially, after both parties (USA and RF) convinced (read: betrayed) the UA in the past to drop or not to develop nuclear weapons.
So, its proven, both, USA and RF can force non-obeying countries / neighbors under their rule, simple using nuclear threat.
Consequence: Because of all this betrayel, other countries will develop nuclear weapons.
Who should ever trust you again, cowboys?
BTW: Hitlers war forced upon him, because of the regulations from Versailles.
[QUOTE=ReinerOtto;2960433]...Because the USA would like to do the same, wright? What the RF can do, Gods own country can do as well.
Especially, after both parties (USA and RF) convinced....the UA in the past to drop or not to develop nuclear weapons.
So, its proven, both, USA and RF can force non-obeying countries / neighbors under their rule, simple using nuclear threat.
Consequence: Because of all this betrayel, other countries will develop nuclear weapons.
Who should ever trust you again, cowboys?
BTW: Hitlers war forced upon him, because of the regulations from Versailles.[/QUOTE]That's reality, because of their conventional and nuclear weapons and large militaries. If they were to decide to get medieval, the USA and Russia can pretty much have their way with non-nuclear powers. It's not ideal, but the world has to deal with it. As to the subject at hand, the best way to deal with it is push for a quick settlement to the war that, to the extent possible, saves face for all involved.
If ridiculous reparations hadn't been forced on Germany probably Hitler never would have assumed power, although you'd probably know more about that than I do.
[QUOTE=Paulie97;2960185]how much fact checking do you think Elvis does?[/QUOTE]You are the one who needs to be fact checked you dumb Democratic douche. You blathered on that we had a cure for Covid, that vaccines worked, that more Republicans were going to die with Covid, said anyone against this war was a Putin dick sucker, and the latest in your unending string of bullshit is Kamla went to Harvard!
[QUOTE=Paulie97;2960185]Okay got it, so I asked the 80 IQ guy where he thought all the extra votes came from in 2020, and he of course said illegals. Then I asked his dumbfuck ass why these illegals, who are now greater in numbers, didn't steal the latest election. He had no answer, so I guess he's only left with Jewish space lasers, or whatever hogwash Elvis can pull off the blogs. But that's free thought according to Spineless. [/QUOTE]As for this election not being stolen, I said without depositions the notion that there was no voter fraud in 2020 is pure bullshit but Republicans had to live with the results. Politically speaking, they should not have expected judges to change the results AFTER the election, but if you think Republicans did not do a shitload to prevent fraud in 2024, then you have your fucking head in the sand.
If you are dumb as to believe that Biden really got more black votes than Kamala did in 2024 or Obama did in 2012, I have some swamp land to sell you.
How in the fuck did Biden get 81.5 million votes in 2020 and Kamala only got 70 million in 2024? Let me tell you something you stupid douche. There are multiple data points over the last 4 elections and the only one not in alignment are the vote totals for Biden in 2020. Just wait until 2028 and 2032, and it is going to be patently obvious how much you douches cheated.
The most disgusting act isn't even the election or destroying freedom for a virus with a 0. 2% mortality rate. It is killing millions of Russians and Ukrainians in a stupid war for your political objectives.
Have you noticed that everyone wants peace now that Trump is president? Of course not. You only read the shit that reinforces your perverted views of the world.
[QUOTE=Tiny12;2960227]Neoconservative.[/QUOTE]You, isolationist. Check the history of that ideology and the fruits thereof. But thanks, I'm very rarely called a conservative in any respect. But I think there's a real chance Trump will surprise the far right with his Ukraine policy.
[QUOTE=Tiny12;2960412]Why not? Russia's official position I believe is that it wants all of Kherson, Zaporizhzhia, Donetsk and Luhansk. It seems like modifying that to just the occupied territory wouldn't be that big of a pullback, to end the war.
Ukraine becoming like Austria, including becoming an EU state ASAP, could be an ideal solution. Europe would spend money building up a prosperous Ukraine instead of enabling a war. Actually ideally it would be great to see Ukraine and Russia as members of the EU and NATO someday in the future. It might have happened by now if not for the neoconservatives, and military and defense establishments who, through the years, depended on hostility toward Russia to maintain their power and funding.[/QUOTE]All 4 regions are constitutionally part of RF now. Russia won't negotiate over its territory. We also won't allow any interventionist force into Ukraine. There are also many operational military aspects. There are future industrial economic aspects as new regions form a complete industrial loop in metal production, mining, transportation etc. There are also political and local elites aspects as well.
All Ukraine is within historic Russian territory and is part of common historic and territorial continuum.
NATO is an anachronism created 3 generations ago which serves today as a means to occupy Europe and to extort 2 cents out of its flesh through military spending.
The US is the main sponsor and beneficiary of the 2014 coup and current conflict. The US should dismantle the Ukraine project and direct its MIC away.
[QUOTE=ReinerOtto;2960433]That the Republican Americans here favor Putlers aggressive attitude. And honor it by agreeing to new borders, drawn by military aggression.
Because the USA would like to do the same, wright? What the RF can do, Gods own country can do as well.
Especially, after both parties (USA and RF) convinced (read: betrayed) the UA in the past to drop or not to develop nuclear weapons.
So, its proven, both, USA and RF can force non-obeying countries / neighbors under their rule, simple using nuclear threat.
Consequence: Because of all this betrayel, other countries will develop nuclear weapons.
Who should ever trust you again, cowboys?
BTW: Hitlers war forced upon him, because of the regulations from Versailles.[/QUOTE]Don't do this. Don't put Russia and the US on the same level. Hell, don't put them in the same room or even town. Trumpism is a bug, not a feature.
It's an aberration. It's America gone nuts. Granted, I didn't expect 50% of my countrymen to be so persistent about going nuts, but what can I say--whoopsies.
Putinism, on the other hand, is not a bug, it's a feature. Russia has always been homicidal. Russia has always been ruled by tyrants. Putin just brought it all back after a brief Sabbatical.
Right-wing populism is not just a US problem. It's swept the world, and you, a European, should be well aware of this phenomenon.
[QUOTE=Tiny12;2960441]That's reality, because of their conventional and nuclear weapons and large militaries. If they were to decide to get medieval, the USA and Russia can pretty much have their way with non-nuclear powers. It's not ideal, but the world has to deal with it. As to the subject at hand, the best way to deal with it is push for a quick settlement to the war that, to the extent possible, saves face for all involved.
If ridiculous reparations hadn't been forced on Germany probably Hitler never would have assumed power, although you'd probably know more about that than I do.[/QUOTE]1. Russia DID go medieval on its neighbor. The only reason it hasn't used nukes (yet) is they'd been warned about what would happen. They can use a world stage as a poker table all they want, but they aren't in rush to become martyrs.
2. It's amazing how isolationists always repeat the same refrain used by Hitler himself. Every time he would attack yet another country, he would go on about the evil West that forced him, a quiet and innocent piece-lover to bomb another European city to oblivion. You have no evidence to insist that Hitler wouldn't have assumed power if it hadn't for the reparations. Germany lost a war, for Christ's sake. Losing wars is never fun.
[QUOTE=Xpartan;2960573]Trumpism is a bug, not a feature.
It's an aberration. It's America gone nuts.[/QUOTE]No, you are the one who is nuts. Look at the 1:44 mark in this video. [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3BEfT64r1U[/URL]
The Taliban wants peace as does Hamas, China, and Russia. The Europeans want to buy American LNG. The Houthis said they are going to stop blowing ships up in the Red Sea. Crypto and the stock market have hit all time highs. And Trump is not even in office yet!
And then there is the latest Democratic douche trash at work: [URL]https://www.zerohedge.com/political/fired-fema-supervisor-claims-avoiding-trump-homes-was-widespread-practice-due-political[/URL].
The Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) supervisor accused of directing workers to skip hurricane-ravaged homes in Florida with Trump signs, claimed in an interview Monday that the policy was widespread and that she was being scapegoated.
Oh, yeah, X man, you are such the sane one. You want war. You want people to be without homes if they do not support your political party. My God, you are such a douche!