Kyiv

[QUOTE=Ringudor;2641785]I'm looking now website from topless massage. Do you remember name of pretty one?[/QUOTE]Sorry can't remember. You can WhatsApp them but their pictures are nothing related to the girls available.

I never was before in topless massage, then I decided to try today, maybe I'm used to warm personality of Latinas, but I really find exasperating behavior of most of Ukrainian masseuses, behave as a robot, I used to have better experiences in past with warm Ukrainian beauties, now I find just pretty girls who do their job in a mechanical way.

[QUOTE=Ringudor;2642042]I never was before in topless massage, then I decided to try today, maybe I'm used to warm personality of Latinas, but I really find exasperating behavior of most of Ukrainian masseuses, behave as a robot, I used to have better experiences in past with warm Ukrainian beauties, now I find just pretty girls who do their job in a mechanical way.[/QUOTE]Sorry to hear your bad experience bro, mine was petty passionate erotic for 1.5 hours, just bad luck.

Yesterday was to stripclub nosorog in maksima krivonosa, full of people, about 30 guys, funny erotic shows o stage, girls are not amazing, but also not bad, is nitot my favorite, but I can go from time to time.

This is a report from September when I visited for 2 weeks.

1. Nightclub scene to pick up women was mostly non-existent as clubs were either closed for good because of covid. There were some bars open, however; they were lame like you had to know some secret password or have a Russian speaking friend bring you in.

I was hoping to go to some nightclubs to see the higher end working girls, however; I found out most were closed down for good. I did try Caribbean club a few nights, however; it was more horrible than what I remembered. Mostly older women and didn't see much to choose from. I did not pick up any women here, in the past I have picked up some women.

2. I thought I would text relax-Kiev girls to see if they would come to my airbnb, I kept getting responses from an "operator" saying the girls weren't available and they kept texting me pictures of girls that were not my type. So this was a bust.

3. I tried [URL]seeking.com[/URL] ahead of time to meet girls from there, I had 2-3 that said they would meet. When it came down to crunch time they all ghosted me, another bust.

4. I walked by after 9 pm around kreschatyk street to see if there were people advertising apartments to go to, some gave me their whatsapp and texted me pics of girls that didn't meet my criteria. I did see girls sitting down on park benches that looked like they were "working", however; they weren't that hot.

5. I tried texting old numbers of girls I mongered with before and some I met from some dating sites. The girls from the dating sites all said they were on vacation. 1 girl I kept in touch with that used to work at rio (she longer works as a stripper), met me 2 times and she and I had a great time. Her English was a lot better as well.

6. What I spent most of my time doing was going to strip clubs since the weather was cold or raining. Some strip clubs were horrible. Harem wanted around 200 euro just to get inside, they said it would pay for drinks. I passed on that. I checked out princess, it had some good looking girls. However, none approached me even after I over-tipped them on stage. Matter of fact they all went and gave dances to guys that never tipped them. I had a better time at Rio and tootsies which I ended up bringing girls back to my airbnb. The quality of strippers has dropped dramatically from my last 2 visits I had over the last 2 years. I would say they were 6-7 in looks now, some were around 5 in looks. Most spent the night with me because I took them home close to closing time, I enjoy this as I like to have GFE. There is some rule they can not give their numbers out, if they get caught they will be fired. I didn't get any numbers even when I asked.

7. I walked around kreschatyk during the day to possibly get numbers from the college aged girls (18-25), this is where I beat myself on and that is Russian. Most did not know enough English for me to conversate with and I don't know enough Russian other than basic Russian to get by. I really need to hire a Russian speaking teacher to help me. Its great when you meet a girl that speaks fluent English, however; not all girls do.

Was it a wasted trip? No, I still had fun though. However, it wasn't as great as my other trips I had in the past. Quality of girls weren't as a great as before, clubs / bars were closed down, some weeknights there were no people that stayed out late, and other 2 trips I got laid from normal girls / dates without having to monger. I love eastern European girls that are down to earth and I'm searching for a plan be place to go to that has nice quality girls / modestly priced mongering / possibly real dates. With this new covid strain out it sucks trying to travel again from USA to Europe. Is Belarus or Latvia a better option at this point?

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2616487]Mister,

You and I are living in the future. Some of the other guys are portraying a Kiev that does not exist. Sorry it just does not. There are girls, but most are very young and have little to no interest in older Foreign Guys.

Too travel long distances to not have girlfriend experience makes no sense.

You are correct there is zero nightlife. I remember most nights, with the exception of Friday the city would be empty at 10 pm. Even Friday nights the clubs would be horrible. I remember many nights were there would be a ratio of 15 guys to one girl. Those are impossible odds.

Sumner is a little different, but many leave the city for the beaches and villages. Sorry, Guys claiming see. Club is option are wrong. If you do not believe go check it out, you will be really disappointed.

Again, the guys that post now, do a great job of describing the real Kiev. The truth is slowly coming out about Ukraine..[/QUOTE]Yes, my trip in September reflects this.

Non-existent nightlife, lower quality looking girls, and weeknights and weekends were barely any people out at night.

[QUOTE=HobbyMan6969;2643451]. Is Belarus or Latvia a better option at this point?[/QUOTE]In my opinion they are mucho worse.

I'm going to keep money out of this as best I can. You can't complain about the lack of venues, that's covid not Kiev. I don't personally think 2 weeks is enough to get a legitimate GFE girl that just wants you for you. A pro needs to be considered after all the blue balling from regular girls. After being here several times since covid I've found that just about everyone under 30 speaks passable English unless they're from the farm. If they "don't" they're not interested so move on. With 2 weeks IMHO the best option for a sure thing is the strip clubs. They're expensive relative to just about everything else but the house needs to get a cut as it's got tons of overhead. You are correct they are in major trouble if they give numbers or see you outside but it is possible. Met one girl with major chemistry. After explaining she couldn't see me outside of work because she'll get a 10 k fine and / or fired, she was back in my hotel an hour after getting off work and wouldn't take a dime but I crammed some money in her purse when she went to the bathroom she didn't leave until 5 pm that night due to a nail appointment with best friend set days earlier. Obviously things went well so I came back several months later, she traded days off with a friend and arranged her schedule at work so we could skip town for 4 days and had an absolute blast. I paid her what I would gave given the club so she got it all rather than half but I didn't pay the 1 k 24 HR fee. Just the standard overnight fee.

One more piece of advice. There is an app called show around. Lots of helpful guys offering some hand holding and negotiations. Worth every penny IMHO. I'll call my guy just to hang out even though I know where I'm going and what I want. He's a fun wingman and I enjoy his company when I'm mongering.

With all due respect, if they're not coming back to you after tipping and knowing you're interested there's something wrong with your game. They're there to make money so unless they're offended somehow there's no reason why they wouldn't at least let you buy them an overpriced drink or two. I'll be in princess one or two nights this week as a backup plan to a couple sa girls I mined before I left home I've already met them both once but if the deal doesn't close I'll go straight to princess likely after 8 or 9 and gone by midnight. I never smile and drink jack Daniel's and coke. I'll give you some honest feedback if you want to approach me.

And BTW, I'm not particularly attractive or unattractive. I have found out that I'm fairly charming (feedback from them, not my ego) and I can make them laugh so that's what's working for me. And I do have money to do what I want. That doesn't hurt either as I don't need to waste my time on luck and prayers.

[QUOTE=HobbyMan6969;2643451]This is a report from September when I visited for 2 weeks.

1. Nightclub scene to pick up women was mostly non-existent as clubs were either closed for good because of covid. There were some bars open, however; they were lame like you had to know some secret password or have a Russian speaking friend bring you in.

I was hoping to go to some nightclubs to see the higher end working girls, however; I found out most were closed down for good. I did try Caribbean club a few nights, however; it was more horrible than what I remembered. Mostly older women and didn't see much to choose from. I did not pick up any women here, in the past I have picked up some women..[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=HobbyMan6969;2643451]This is a report from September when I visited for 2 weeks.

1. Nightclub scene to pick up women was mostly non-existent as clubs were either closed for good because of covid. There were some bars open, however; they were lame like you had to know some secret password or have a Russian speaking friend bring you in.

I was hoping to go to some nightclubs to see the higher end working girls, however; I found out most were closed down for good. I did try Caribbean club a few nights, however; it was more horrible than what I remembered. Mostly older women and didn't see much to choose from. I did not pick up any women here, in the past I have picked up some women.

2. I thought I would text relax-Kiev girls to see if they would come to my airbnb, I kept getting responses from an "operator" saying the girls weren't available and they kept texting me pictures of girls that were not my type. So this was a bust.

3. I tried [URL]seeking.com[/URL] ahead of time to meet girls from there, I had 2-3 that said they would meet. When it came down to crunch time they all ghosted me, another bust.

4. I walked by after 9 pm around kreschatyk street to see if there were people advertising apartments to go to, some gave me their whatsapp and texted me pics of girls that didn't meet my criteria. I did see girls sitting down on park benches that looked like they were "working", however; they weren't that hot.

5. I tried texting old numbers of girls I mongered with before and some I met from some dating sites. The girls from the dating sites all said they were on vacation. 1 girl I kept in touch with that used to work at rio (she longer works as a stripper), met me 2 times and she and I had a great time. Her English was a lot better as well.
[/QUOTE]So Sad, but true. I disagree slightly it has like this for years. Sept. Is suppose to be one of the best times of the year in Kiev.

[QUOTE=FilthyBeaver;2643603]...With all due respect, if they're not coming back to you after tipping and knowing you're interested there's something wrong with your game...[/QUOTE]That's precisely why I was double- even tripple-booked with Kiev beauties at times.

I tried many venues in Kiev, including Arena City, Mint and Star Rhinoceros before 2011, later on Rio and Scarlett, checking out apartments in person, using show around services, etc. Many years ago I stopped going to any clubs, and all so called night life. It always existed, and still is great, one just needs to love the city, and stop spewing vitriol. Any suspicion, any feelings of "Kiev sucks, Kiev is not the way it used to be", and it'll pay back with the same harsh attitude. Life is what we make of it. One can be a miserable trolling schmuck, or create a paradise on earth.

FilthyBeaver stated it perfectly. Look in the mirror. Kiev is fine. And yes, newbie girls can be discovered even in strip clubs, but the GFE is found much easier outside of the "night life". Show around wingman is a good idea, I used a lovely girl guide in 2018, she knew everything, understood exactly what I wanted, and she never was perceived as a competition. I introduced her to my new acquaintances as HR manager in our corporation. She had lots of fun watching the game unfolding before her eyes.

YMMV. Many visitors successfully use mamba, tinder and other platforms. For many years I personally had the best success though with hourly girls delivered to my apartment. Including those sourced from Darling club. No less than 1 out of 10 met with me again later, cutting out the middleman. Some of them became my regulars. That's unlikely to work out for a 5-10 days visitor. 3 weeks IMHO is a minimum. Passing for a local is a huge plus. Visiting Kiev regularly is a must to gain trust and enjoy the pleasures of repeat encounters and longer stays.

Here the caveat though: Classy Ukrainian female would not simply give the visitor her phone number for nothing. And after that to expect her response on Viber or Telegram, and then for showing up on a real date outside of her work, she would want a bit more than a mere transaction, a flushed used condom, and money in the pocket of her pimp. She wants attention, to feel special, to sense an unspoken promise that her life would change for the better.

Can it be done two years into pandemy? Yep. Guaranteed? No fucking way! It'll be much more difficult than 13 years ago during River Palace era, and more expensive than in 2018 when I had a gorgeous student in my bed at 7 am swinging by for an intense orgasm before her classes at the University 3 blocks away. Just imagine 1 m80 tall impeccable beauty passionately exclaiming:

- Thank you! That's exactly what I needed today!

And me thinking:

- Well, thank you too.

Having said the above, I know more than 5 gentlemen, that instead of arguing here on Forum, are currently in Kiev, and they are not able to accommodate all the qualified female candidates. Guys are having mind altering experiences with very accommodating exquisite young ladies! $200-300 per few hours frequently transforming into overnight, because lady decided to stay. And hopefully there's no overlap with incoming one arriving soon.

What if you are a short term visitor? First time visitor? Well, you can still try your luck, and chances are not zero, but definitely substantially lower. Money may help to some degree, but doesn't ensure or guarantee much. And if you fail, don't blame Kiev. Perhaps your expectations weren't set properly, or you are not qualified to be successful in Ukraine.

[blue][Deleted by Admin][/blue]

I've been a good client of escort. Vc, gia or whatever since 2014, I've had gia girls for three days, one day, two days, 6 hours 3 hours, and 10 hours and for the most part all satisfactory. As a result of what happened today, I'll never patronize this agency again. One of the higher price girls came to me today, for 10 hours, she walks in counts the money, and I offer tea, then she takes a chuck of cheese from her purse and places it on a plate and eats it while drinking her tea, and of course a lot of texting, I sat for 35 minutes and watched her eat her cheese and drink her tea, I told her to put her phone away and come to me, I hugged her for a minute and then she said she needs to shower, 5 minutes later she returns, I took her towel off, we rolled on the bed for 5 minutes, she didn't want to kiss, I told her that the site indicates she kisses, she didn't want to. I told her to leave, she contact her manager and I explained the situation, he said pay her for an hour 250 dollars, she was in my flat for 45 minutes, for the first 30 minutes I watched her eat her cheese and text, following a shower we rolled around on the bed for 5 minutes, no sex at all, and I had to give her 250 dollars for all this aggravation, never will I ever contact this agency again.

I arrived in Kiev after pending 40 days in Dnipro, my regular in that city was a very attractive 19 year old from a agency in Dnipro, for 2000 UAH the service I received from her was so much better.

[QUOTE=Timmy21;2643933]I've been a good client of escort. Vc, gia or whatever since 2014, I've had gia girls for three days, one day, two days, 6 hours 3 hours, and 10 hours and for the most part all satisfactory. As a result of what happened today, I'll never patronize this agency again...[/QUOTE]Ouch! Indeed once in awhile the girls show up with an attitude and no desire to honor their obligations.

Would you mind sharing, when was the last long enough period of time that you had more or less acceptable service from GIA and its spin-off?

With rare exceptions I was quite happy with GIA in September-December 2016. My last order was in November 2017. Great hard working girl, I paid 1 hour to GIA in the very beginning, and after confirming the girl is responsive to my advances. I extended by paying to her directly for 10 more hours. BBBJ, DATY, great DFK, sensual in missionary, she also loved cow girl riding.

Then in May 2018 original GIA got busted by police for certain reasons, mentioned here before. Girls got scared, as police had their passport copies and investigators were harassing the girls. GIA re-emerged as KEC (Kiev Escort Club) later in the Summer of 2018 under different management, and AFAIK much lower quality of service. I am still in contact with four girls that used to work for original GIA, and am wondering if indeed you had good times under new management.

Their HR has a separate Russian website looking for girls. Same concept as before.

There is another Viber based agency providing higher level ladies for reasonable prices, and I had great luck. They were sourced just like GIA, - not from an apartment base, where one can fuck them if so desired, but rather directly from girls own residence.

Then one of the girls showed up smoking, swearing, and yes she was the same as in photoshopped pictures, but nowhere near as classy. Sex was great though, but I dismissed her before the time expired. Dispatcher was "sorry to hear that happened", and "nobody complained about her, I am surprised", and all the other bullshit. By that time I established a reliable stable of regulars, and going forward rejected any offers coming from that agency.

Thank you for sharing.

[QUOTE=Timmy21;2643933]I've been a good client of escort. Vc, gia or whatever since 2014, I've had gia girls for three days, one day, two days, 6 hours 3 hours, and 10 hours and for the most part all satisfactory. As a result of what happened today, I'll never patronize this agency again. One of the higher price girls came to me today, for 10 hours, she walks in counts the money, and I offer tea, then she takes a chuck of cheese from her purse and places it on a plate and eats it while drinking her tea, and of course a lot of texting, I sat for 35 minutes and watched her eat her cheese and drink her tea, I told her to put her phone away and come to me, I hugged her for a minute and then she said she needs to shower, 5 minutes later she returns, I took her towel off, we rolled on the bed for 5 minutes, she didn't want to kiss, I told her that the site indicates she kisses, she didn't want to. I told her to leave, she contact her manager and I explained the situation, he said pay her for an hour 250 dollars, she was in my flat for 45 minutes, for the first 30 minutes I watched her eat her cheese and text, following a shower we rolled around on the bed for 5 minutes, no sex at all, and I had to give her 250 dollars for all this aggravation, never will I ever contact this agency again.

I arrived in Kiev after pending 40 days in Dnipro, my regular in that city was a very attractive 19 year old from a agency in Dnipro, for 2000 UAH the service I received from her was so much better.[/QUOTE]

I've used Gia every now and then over years, but I don't remember having big problems like this. Knowing the bad attitude of some of the dispatchers, however, I'm not so surprise to hear this.

But what seems to be more surprising is that she returned hundreds of dollars??? A quick research shows 10 hours at Gia would be somewhere between 800 and 1200 USD.

Would you mind sharing the name of the girl so we can all avoid?

Who's still awake and unable to sleep? I'm in the center and I wouldn't mind going out and drinking some coffee with someone on here. [blue][Deleted by Admin][/blue]

[u][b]EDITOR's NOTE[/b][/u]: [blue]This report was edited or deleted because it was an attempt by the author to encourage members to [u]CONTACT HIM on ANOTHER WEBSITE[/u]. In the future, please refrain from posting requests for forum members to contact you on another website. [i]Thanks![/i][/blue]

I hear you Bro. I've been using GIA periodically since 2012 and never had issues. I mean most of the girls obviously not the best looking but punctual and provided professional services so I had always booked with confidence. However;- on my latest business trip to Kiev I had extremely negative experience with ARINA and would highly suggest everyone to stay away from this girl. When I met her she looked very different from pictures on the website. I mean it was her but the pictures are heavily photo-shopped. In reality she's very skinny with average looking "foxy" face and small tits (size 0). That was definitely a red flag for me and I should have send her back. But I was drunk and horny so.

I had envied her anyways hoping for the good services and that was a huuuge mistake. As soon as she entered she grabbed cash from table and started to ask me tones of questions. I'm a polite guy even when I drink more than normal but after 15 minutes of chitchatting I told her (politely) to shut-up and go take a shower. So she spent another 15 minutes in shower while I was getting really enjoyed. Finally she got out and said "I really apologize that my travel to shower took so long. I just needed to do some additional make up to look the best for you " ! So 1/2 hour wasted into nowhere. I just asked her to get in the bad hoping that the rest of this "date" will work out, but instead.

Of getting down to business she started telling me things like. "I don't like to be touched here and there. " and so on and as a result I got turned off completely and asked her to leave which she did in split second not even apologizing for ruining my day. So anyways I've been used this agency in the past and have never seen something like this. Extremely negative lesson to remember. I would rather flashed $200 into the toilet.

[QUOTE=Timmy21;2643933]I've been a good client of escort. Vc, gia or whatever since 2014, I've had gia girls for three days, one day, two days, 6 hours 3 hours, and 10 hours and for the most part all satisfactory. As a result of what happened today, I'll never patronize this agency again. One of the higher price girls came to me today, for 10 hours, she walks in counts the money, and I offer tea, then she takes a chuck of cheese from her purse and places it on a plate and eats it while drinking her tea, and of course a lot of texting, I sat for 35 minutes and watched her eat her cheese and drink her tea, I told her to put her phone away and come to me, I hugged her for a minute and then she said she needs to shower, 5 minutes later she returns, I took her towel off, we rolled on the bed for 5 minutes, she didn't want to kiss, I told her that the site indicates she kisses, she didn't want to..[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=SprKiev21;2584456]High-End Escorts.

Well, if you're not limited on budget than this could be a good option for you to fuck a real Ukrainian beauty. And it's true. By using these resources, you can easily hit 7/8/9 and even 10. However: Expect the big hit to your wallet. In my experience: 7 from $500, 8 from $600, 9 from $800. Normally meeting lasts 2 hours or more (if you like "dinner-dates" than you pay double). I'm personally not a big fan of dinner-dates, actually once in a while I go out but only with girls I've known for some time. And my personal preference #1 Date #2 Dinner as I don't like to fuck with my stomach full. So, anyways: There are few resources available for these types of arrangements: it's OMG and MensKiev Both are pre-paid services and will require your credit card but don't worry) they are perfectly legit. OMG will actually refund your payment if for whatever reason the girl you contacted did not get back to you. This time I've used menskiev once and met a very nice lady. Paid $500 but had a very good time.[/QUOTE]Dear SprKiev21,

It seems you are an expert in girl hunting in Ukraine. I really appreciate your experience, and I have learned much from your posts. I will be in Kiev at this weekend for two nights only. My time is limited but my budget is not. My pocket is deep, and I can even pay $1.000 for an amazing girl.

My plan is spending some time in strip clubs. I would prefer to take a girl out but it's not necessary. I like to touch and play with beautiful girls preferably big natural boobs during a private dance. At this point, apart from princess (I read your positive review about it) which strip clubs would you recommend? My first criterion is the quality of the girls no matter take out option is possible or not. I can visit two clubs for each night I guess. Would you rate these strip clubs by number 1-10? I will go to the top four clubs you will recommend.

Princess.

Rio.

Paradise Cabaret.

Rhino at Lesi.

Rhino at Solmenka.

Scarlette.

Dolls.

Harem.

Secondly, after enjoying the best strip clubs, I will try to take the best girl out. If it doesn't work I will call a high-end escort from OMG or Menskiev.

Urgently need your advice. Thank you.

Sure. Happy to help. Well, it's kind of hard to rank clubs because in general all of them suck these days (comparing to even 5 years ago).

And it's partially due to demographically changes and obviously COVID has a huge impact on nightlife venues.

So anyways. Here is my latest take based on my 4 trips to Kiev in 2021.

Princess. - 6/10.

Normally around 20 dancers on shift)) Girls look better than other places, Private dances in general OK but depends on girl (some of them could be very hot others will not even allow you to touch them).

VIP rooms very dark so you won't see much. Take out possible for $300 but not for the best looking girls.

Rio - 5/10.

Used to be #1 place in Kiev but not anymore. They still have around 30 dancers on shift but very few hotties. Also the place is normally more crowded than.

Other clubs so it will not be easy to drag attention of a good looking girl despite giving tips or whatever. So if you really like someone than talk to.

Floor manager "Yurij" his name. He' a very nice guy and will make sure that the girl you like will land at your table (if available).

Take out possible for $300 but generally not for the best looking girls.

Paradise Cabaret. 4/10.

Very private place located inside Premier Palace hotel. They advertise it as a 5 star hotel and charge crazy prices but on reality it's.

A bit renovated old Soviet piece of junk and you can get excellent aibnb apartment for 1/2 of it's price. So anyway. Paradise Cabaret.

Normally very few girls (4-6 on shift) . Actually could be good-looking (due to privacy of this place) but Very sharky style of behavior.

They'll try to suck as much cash out of you as possible for every move you make and every word you say.

Take out possible for $300 but there is a catch. You also need to book a room in that crappy hotel and that's another $100 on top.

So the girls basically cater to those who already lives in that crappy place or make you to buy a room.

Rhino at Lesi. 5/10.

There might be few good-looking girls on shift but limited touching for private dances and not take out option available.

Rhino at Solmenka. 5/10.

Same as Rhino at Lesi.

Scarlette - 0/10 Permanently Closed (but you didn't loose much as it wasn't the best place in the past same management as RIO).

Dolls. 5/10.

I'd rank it same as Rio (although RIO used to be much better). Normally around 20 girls on shift but mostly average looking.

Place can also get very crowded after mid-night. Take out available for $300 but not for the best looking girls.

Harem. 2/10.

Shit-Hole and tourist trap. Stay away.

Few general things to keep in mind.

1. If your ultimate goal to bring a girl back to your apartment than go to club around 2 am. This will increase your chances of getting laid.

Because ideal timing for the girl to "go out" is a couple of hours before closing (normally all clubs operate until 6 am unless it's very slow night).

2. Do not waste you $$ into the air. I mean it's OK to tip girls (normally 100 UAH) or take her for private dance (500-600 UAH).

Do not buy food or drinks without confirmed agreement for take out. Do not use champagne rooms cause it's just a tool for ripping you off (consummation).

3. Even if you managed to take out the girl you like. This still doesn't grantee you'll get a good service. I mean you can get best GFE session in your.

Life, but in my experience it's 50/50.

4. Do not try to get a phone number from a girl but if you really liked her and you had a good time (outside of the club) than do give her your number.

5. Keep in mind that best looking girls (if you're lucky to find any) normally are not available for take out. And that's for 2 reasons:

1) They generate a good amount of cash on private dances and not looking for extra income (I mean fucking with a stranger outside of the club).

2) Club management trying to keep best looking girls inside the club (pay them extra $$ to keep cheer-leaders around to attract visitors.

Good luck and good fuck.

[QUOTE=WadPro;2647826]Dear SprKiev21,

It seems you are an expert in girl hunting in Ukraine. I really appreciate your experience, and I have learned much from your posts. I will be in Kiev at this weekend for two nights only. My time is limited but my budget is not. My pocket is deep, and I can even pay $1.000 for an amazing girl.

My plan is spending some time in strip clubs. I would prefer to take a girl out but it's not necessary. I like to touch and play with beautiful girls preferably big natural boobs during a private dance. At this point, apart from princess (I read your positive review about it) which strip clubs would you recommend? My first criterion is the quality of the girls no matter take out option is possible or not. I can visit two clubs for each night I guess. Would you rate these strip clubs by number 1-10? I will go to the top four clubs you will recommend.

Princess.

Rio.

Paradise Cabaret..[/QUOTE]

Thank you for your valuable assessments and reviews, but I had already completed my short (2 nights) trip before I saw your response. I will consider your review for my next trip in this summer. Let me share my Kiev trip details with you.

Before getting to Kiev I started to look for girls on Tinder, and I found two girls, one of them was a girl with huge boobs like "E" cup size, and the other one was a blond girl with average size boobs. At first I scheduled meetings with both of them for Saturday, then I took my meeting with the busty girl to Friday night and I met her. We sat in a bar and spent two hours together then we agreed on meeting on Saturday. I was aware of the "no sex on the first day" rule.

Then I started to discover the strip clubs at Friday night, first I went to Princess club but I didn't like the environment, it was full of low class people from the middle east and the whole club was covered with hookah and cigarette smoke, and the girls were average or below than average. I left the club without sitting. Then I went to Rio, but it was closed. I entered Tootsie club next to Rio, but the I observed the same thing there, middle easterners and their smoke, and average girls, I left that club in one minute. By the way the security staff in Tootsie was annoying, they were looking at me as if they are about to beat me, I didn't understand why they were so harsh. I experienced such a thing first time in Kiev. Then I went to Rhino club at Lesi first, but I didn't sit there because it was covered with cigarette and hookah smoke, the club was not looking like a good place. After that I tried the other Rhino at Solmenka, at first everything was looking better, no cigarette smoke, no middle easterners, and better girls. So I decided to sit in and ordered some sushi. I firstly realized the sushi was awful, secondly I realized that there were only 7 girls in the club. I liked only one of them (a tall blond with big boobs) and I had a private dance with her, two songs dance for 600 grivnas, after the two songs were over she asked me whether I wanted her to continue, and I said I will think about that, but she didn't allow me to leave the room and she danced for one more song, then she asked for another 600 grivnas, I objected, and I said I didn't ask you to dance more, and if there was a communication problem, okay let me pay 300 grivnas because you danced for just one song, but the girl and the waitress insisted on charging 600 grivnas by saying each additional song is 600 grivnas. I am a wealthy guy and 300 grivnas are nothing for me but I felt like I was ripped off and I decided to pay the money they wanted and leave the club immediately. But what happened next? First, the waitress tried to rip me off one more time by not deducting the drinks and the sushi from the deposit (1.000 grivnas), then she did it after my warning, I paid 3.000 grivnas for the 2. 820 grivnas bill, but the waitress didn't come back after getting money from me. I went to the bar to take my change, but the same waitress told me she thought that it was a tip. I said "no tips" and asked for the change, and they made me wait at least 5 minutes to give me 180 grivnas. Then I tore that 180 grivnas off as soon as they gave it to me to show them I wanted that change for another reason. And I left the club. I didn't go to Harem and Dolls because I already know that those clubs are shitholes from my past experience. By the way some taxi drivers are always recommending the dolls club and it shows that those taxi drivers have a commission deal with the club.

Anyway, after that I went to another club which was more expensive (private dance is for 1500 grivnas) and I was only one of the two customers in the club, there was no smoke and the there were only 6 girls in the club but they were more beautiful. I stayed there until 6:00 AM and I took one of the girls out for $700. She didn't give me a condomless blowjob but I was satisfied with her beauty and her sex service. I wish I negotiated for a condomless blowjob before paying, in that case she couldn't have rejected blowjob without condom. This was a good lesson for me.

The next day, the busty girl whom I met on thinder came to my hotel, she was not looking like a pro or semi-pro, but on our second day she asked for $500 as a gift, and I gave her the money she wanted. Because I really wanted her. And hopefully I was satisfied with her and she really made me happy. She gave me blowjob without condom, she offered me regular massage and boob massage, and her BJ technique was impressive, she also gave me boobjob and I literally fucked her huge boobs a few times. Somehow fucking huge boobs gives me more pleasure than fucking a pussy.

This is the brief of my Kiev adventure.

By the way I recommend BBQ croissants in Lviv Croissants bakeries. It's really delicious and good for breakfast.

[QUOTE=SprKiev21;2648369]Sure. Happy to help. Well, it's kind of hard to rank clubs because in general all of them suck these days (comparing to even 5 years ago).

And it's partially due to demographically changes and obviously COVID has a huge impact on nightlife venues.

So anyways. Here is my latest take based on my 4 trips to Kiev in 2021.

Princess. - 6/10.

Normally around 20 dancers on shift)) Girls look better than other places, Private dances in general OK but depends on girl (some of them could be very hot others will not even allow you to touch them).

VIP rooms very dark so you won't see much. Take out possible for $300 but not for the best looking girls..[/QUOTE]

Question: What is your definition of "Night Life"?

I understand that for some of respected gentlemen here it is good fun in the strip club, booze, scantily clad women, and more. The proverbial night out in the Western City.

Any other opinions?

I do not offer this survey to criticize. On the contrary, - looking for feedback, fully expecting some of it being radically different from my perception of the universe.

Best regards!

[QUOTE=WadPro;2649025]Anyway, after that I went to another club which was more expensive (private dance is for 1500 grivnas) and I was only one of the two customers in the club, there was no smoke and the there were only 6 girls in the club but they were more beautiful. I stayed there until 6:00 AM and I took one of the girls out for $700. She didn't give me a condomless blowjob but I was satisfied with her beauty and her sex service. I wish I negotiated for a condomless blowjob before paying, in that case she couldn't have rejected blowjob without condom. This was a good lesson for me..[/QUOTE]I'm curious. Which is that expensive stripclub? I never saw so expensive places in Kiev.

Is sad how bad are going stripclubs in city, it used to be a stripclub paradise before covid.

Hi all,

I just come back from one week in Kiev.

Christmas weather was very nice. Cold with an amazing blue sky, and snow after.

A lot of places are very well decorated. It's very beautiful to see.

As usual I worked a few days before the trip on mamba and I've found enough contact before the trip. For me tinder is a big waste of time, mamba is really far more efficient on this subject.

About strip club, I was in princess 2 times. I was in this place from a previous trip, and recognize some of the girls.

I took for a few dances an amazing slim brunette, she recognizes me from my first trip, she was glued to me during all the dances, and it's the kind of girl who comes to take your hands and place them at strategic places.

For my second visit she saw me as soon as I arrived in the club and dances were even better. I also tried massage, this one is not erotic at all, but it allows to talk to the girl in a quiet place.

Another small but with perfect body girl was also here, I don't use to tip lazy girls, but this one deserved money, and was grateful to get some.

For sure I will go again to Kiev for my next holidays.

[QUOTE=Timmy21;2643933]I've been a good client of escort. Vc, gia or whatever since 2014, I've had gia girls for three days, one day, two days, 6 hours 3 hours, and 10 hours and for the most part all satisfactory. As a result of what happened today, I'll never patronize this agency again. One of the higher price girls came to me today, for 10 hours, she walks in counts the money, and I offer tea, then she takes a chuck of cheese from her purse and places it on a plate and eats it while drinking her tea, and of course a lot of texting, I sat for 35 minutes and watched her eat her cheese and drink her tea, I told her to put her phone away and come to me, I hugged her for a minute and then she said she needs to shower, 5 minutes later she returns, I took her towel off, we rolled on the bed for 5 minutes, she didn't want to kiss, I told her that the site indicates she kisses, she didn't want to. I told her to leave, she contact her manager and I explained the situation, he said pay her for an hour 250 dollars, she was in my flat for 45 minutes, for the first 30 minutes I watched her eat her cheese and text, following a shower we rolled around on the bed for 5 minutes, no sex at all, and I had to give her 250 dollars for all this aggravation, never will I ever contact this agency again.

I arrived in Kiev after pending 40 days in Dnipro, my regular in that city was a very attractive 19 year old from a agency in Dnipro, for 2000 UAH the service I received from her was so much better.[/QUOTE]I'm going to Kiev next month. Do you know a luxury escort club where fashion models are enrolled?

[QUOTE=PhotoSlider;2649350]Question: What is your definition of "Night Life"?

I understand that for some of respected gentlemen here it is good fun in the strip club, booze, scantily clad women, and more. The proverbial night out in the Western City.

Any other opinions?

I do not offer this survey to criticize. On the contrary, - looking for feedback, fully expecting some of it being radically different from my perception of the universe.[/QUOTE]There's salsa and other forms of social dancing, which I enjoy as a way of going out at night. An older man who is obviously ONLY looking to meet younger girls is probably going to feel unwelcome at social dancing venues. However, if he is truly serious about social dancing, no problem, in my experience.

I've had lots of indications of interest (IOIs) over the years while social dancing in Kyiv, but I never followed up for several reasons:

1) I have that regular and other girls can't easily compete with her in my eye. I'm not in love with this girl, far from it, but I am lazy and won't stray as long as she continues to deliver reliable and trouble-free results.

2) Many of these IOIs were obviously for a serious civilian relationship, eventually leading to marriage and children, by women around 30 who are starting to get desperate and thus willing to ignore or be deluded about my age (61 currently). Incompatible goals, so no point wasting their time or mine.

3) Some IOIs were from attractive women age 45 and up. Why bother when I have that much younger regular? These women could offer true love, which the regular doesn't offer, but I am too old to care. Anyway, I couldn't love them back because I'm too old to love anything except money. Speaking of which, saving money is no reason to exchange my regular for a civilian, since the regular is well within my budget.

4) Some IOIs were from university girls, the sort who are open to short-term sexual relationships for the pure sake of adventure, and these are tempting as offering variety, instead of only seeing that regular. However, there's the risk of scandal: social dancing is a small world and gossip travels fast. IMO, better to hunt for university girls on mamba and leave them alone where social dancing is concerned. Maybe someone with better skills at seducing university girls could succeed where I am too lazy and risk-averse to try.

A super great friend of mine from Belarus is in Kiev for super company.

If interrested pm me.

[QUOTE=Kozerog;2650519]There's salsa and other forms of social dancing, which I enjoy as a way of going out at night. An older man who is obviously ONLY looking to meet younger girls is probably going to feel unwelcome at social dancing venues. However, if he is truly serious about social dancing, no problem, in my experience.

I've had lots of indications of interest (IOIs) over the years while social dancing in Kyiv, but I never followed up for several reasons:[/QUOTE]Detailed analytical write-up, - thank you, Kozerog!

Yeah, there's variety in the city. At least 30 universities, plus academies and colleges. Kiev National University has 20,000 students. Add to this mix the office workers, barbers, cashiers, and even those with the main occupation of extracting money from the members of this Forum. Abundance of females hungry for all sorts of entertainment. And the city obliges.

Over time I made enough connections. Sufficient to stay in touch even after 2+ years away, and still finding new ones, if only for conversation these days. Those connections showed me life beyond the strip clubs, massage parlors, hourly girls, Arena City, and GIA. Day and night, - truly endless possibilities opened up.

I did have a strong intention, and even a young enough designated partner for social dancing. But due to the usual over-subscription and bandwidth limitations it didn't materialize.

My other option is Theater. Wide spectrum of offerings in Kiev. Ladies love it. The best way to get a dedicated regular for sure.

Concerts of visiting artists of all calibers from David Garrett to rock, progressive, jazz, and beyond. And I prefer to arrive to those with a reliable female, that, as Kozerog stated awhile ago, I'd be proud of having on my arm. Showing off is not exactly the main purpose, and yet a beautiful intelligent woman is a joy. More than once I had to take care of two beauties at the Theater. It definitely helps when one of them is trustworthy, and will not throw a jealousy tantrum.

I wouldn't designate places-to-eat as a night life, but I do spend considerable time in those. With ladies, or people watching, or simply working. Never really hunt for girls there, because I am rapidly approaching 60, and am not exactly a Brad Pitt. But on a few occasions I had to delay a little my dinner date with an incoming one, because the outgoing was still present.

The main advantage the Kiev provides is erasing the taboo against the middle-aged man having a young female partner in public. Yes, some girls objected to my suggestions to go out, especially in the beginning. Later most of them warmed up and didn't mind. Stigma is not that visible in that society. Perhaps the main reason is the demographic dis-balance and competition for males that can provide, improve the quality of life, including the night life.

Anyway, whatever strikes your fancy outside of our main hobby, or coinciding with it, Kiev may have it. I'd like to take DJ classes, already took studio photography 1:1 with female instructor and beautiful models. For the latter I insisted that we won't do anything erotic (it was still on the border). Languages is another venue. Teaching English for free, or learning Ukrainian for an hourly fee. Kiev became so cosmopolitan over the last 10-15 years!

To be continued.

[QUOTE=PhotoSlider;2653148]My other option is Theater. Wide spectrum of offerings in Kiev. Ladies love it. The best way to get a dedicated regular for sure.

Concerts of visiting artists of all calibers from David Garrett to rock, progressive, jazz, and beyond. And I prefer to arrive to those with a reliable female, that, as Kozerog stated awhile ago, I'd be proud of having on my arm. Showing off is not exactly the main purpose, and yet a beautiful intelligent woman is a joy. More than once I had to take care of two beauties at the Theater. It definitely helps when one of them is trustworthy, and will not throw a jealousy tantrum.[/QUOTE]I tried this on my last visit. One girl was particularly keen on repeat visits with me, but I tend to go for older, so I was a little apprehensive. I later relented since I figured her enthusiasm for me would make for great fuck sessions, as she would be motivated to keep my interest. I have always wanted to fuck a girl in the Theatre and would happily settle for a blowie or a handy, depending on what I could get away with, so I agreed to meet this girl on the condition that there would be some hanky panky.

I booked a private box at the ballet, and picked one that seemed to be the most discreet seating.

When we were there I was hoping to slip my hand up her skirt, but she stopped me, and I got a half hearted handy, but she was so concerned about us being found out, that there was no skill applied, as such I couldn't even get hard. Total waste of tickets, hors the'oeuvres and drinks. I fucked her when we got home, but all in all it was a disappointment. Obviously she wanted another meet during my visit, so I made a booking, but I cancelled on her at the last minute as punishment.

Anyone here had sucess fucking a girl at the theatre / opera / ballet, and if so, how did you manage it?

[QUOTE=VinDici;2653347]...I made a booking, but I cancelled on her at the last minute as punishment.[/QUOTE]LOL. I wondered is this a thing girls do. Apparently it is.

I too experienced this with a Mamba girl.

Now, thinking if it's Kiev again next summer or not, my main concern is two-fold: will there be 3000 uah girl-next-door girls available, and would I find regular female company to hang out in the city. The latter doesn't relate to this forum, but the first one does. Based on the experience last summer, the prices were high for many girls. I think agencies from Telegram could be an option, but not my preferable one.

So I've been living in Kiev for about 3 months now. I like it so far. Are we allowed to talk about what the best / most reliable agencies are? GFE girls seem to be pretty rare.

[QUOTE=Yznem;2654735]So I've been living in Kiev for about 3 months now. I like it so far. Are we allowed to talk about what the best / most reliable agencies are? GFE girls seem to be pretty rare.[/QUOTE]Is anyone over their talking about a possible war? Not seeing nothing about!

[QUOTE=RacShack;2655706]Is anyone over their talking about a possible war? Not seeing nothing about![/QUOTE]It really depends on who you want to ask?

[URL]https://ua.usembassy.gov/ukraine-level-4-do-not-travel-2/[/URL]

Across the pond [URL]https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10436705/Americans-safer-Kyiv-LA-source-close-Zelensky-slams-Biden-evacuating-Ukraine.html[/URL].

[QUOTE=Jojosun;2655929]It really depends on who you want to ask?

[URL]https://ua.usembassy.gov/ukraine-level-4-do-not-travel-2/[/URL]

Across the pond [URL]https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10436705/Americans-safer-Kyiv-LA-source-close-Zelensky-slams-Biden-evacuating-Ukraine.html[/URL].[/QUOTE]Whether or not the invasion eventually happens, the threat is real, and I left Ukraine 2 weeks before the US government's recommendation for a southern European country.

A regular from Kyiv is now asking me to let her join me. I'm not sure what I'm going to do with her. I don't want her to necessarily join me, but if I refuse, it'll probably be the end of our relation.

[QUOTE=Sorbonne;2655996]Whether or not the invasion eventually happens, the threat is real, and I left Ukraine 2 weeks before the US government's recommendation for a southern European country.

A regular from Kyiv is now asking me to let her join me. I'm not sure what I'm going to do with her. I don't want her to necessarily join me, but if I refuse, it'll probably be the end of our relation.[/QUOTE]If Russia takes over the entire country of Ukraine, I wonder if the scene would be any better.

[QUOTE=RacShack;2655706]Is anyone over their talking about a possible war? Not seeing nothing about![/QUOTE]Why "possible war"? Proper statement would be "further escalation of the war on-going since 2014".

14000 dead, at least a million relocated.

I personally had a multi-week hobby interaction with a few girls from Donbas. At first they are young and fresh and seem the same. Over time though definitely traumatized. Taught me to avoid.

Yes, my Kiev friends have serious concerns about the things getting significantly worse.

Sorbonne did the right thing bailing out. And yes, failing to support during crisis means starting from scratch during the next visit.

[QUOTE=RacShack;2655706]Is anyone over their talking about a possible war? Not seeing nothing about![/QUOTE]I had a tripped planned for April that I've cancelled until things have settled down.

I don't think Ukraine would be better if Russia took over. There would be a lot of refugees who want to get out.

[QUOTE=VinDici;2653347]I tried this on my last visit. One girl was particularly keen on repeat visits with me, but I tend to go for older, so I was a little apprehensive. I later relented since I figured her enthusiasm for me would make for great fuck sessions, as she would be motivated to keep my interest. I have always wanted to fuck a girl in the Theatre and would happily settle for a blowie or a handy, depending on what I could get away with, so I agreed to meet this girl on the condition that there would be some hanky panky.

I booked a private box at the ballet, and picked one that seemed to be the most discreet seating.

When we were there I was hoping to slip my hand up her skirt, but she stopped me, and I got a half hearted handy, but she was so concerned about us being found out, that there was no skill applied, as such I couldn't even get hard. Total waste of tickets, hors the'oeuvres and drinks. I fucked her when we got home, but all in all it was a disappointment. Obviously she wanted another meet during my visit, so I made a booking, but I cancelled on her at the last minute as punishment.

Anyone here had success fucking a girl at the theatre / opera / ballet, and if so, how did you manage it?[/QUOTE]Seriously doubt, unless the girl is heavily under influence. And I prefer conscious mutual consent of both the involved adults.

Even a BJ is difficult at the most strip clubs in Kiev. Why? Because those students and such take the special pride in being dancers, not prostitutes. Same applies to massage places, where on premises the most possible would be DATY, and obviously a handjob, which is part of the menu, but again, not a BJ or further.

Kiev is not Thailand. Most of the time there is an expectation of decency in the public. Many of those girls have a life outside of escort. Many of them are residents of Kiev, or have aspirations in the near future.

BTW, there was a report on January 20,2022 of a brothel bust in Rivne, with a bunch of girls on-site, a naked customer filmed by the police, hidden video-cameras connected to Internet discovered in those boudoir alcoves. The best was another girl reporting for duty, just arriving on a train from Kherson, with her suitcase and all. Police lead her in. There's a video of the whole process in Russian / Ukrainian language. Hilarious.

Anyway, getting the girls outside the massage parlor is another story, as an admin of Relax "had the honor" in my arms, and we became close friends. Again, she refused to go to Theater with me, and encounters were limited to my Airbnb.

At the Theater all of their attention is focused on the stage performance. They imagine themselves there, not as actors, but as characters in the play. That is why my plan is simple: fuck them before the show. And then by inspiration after. My preference is to stay within 5-7 minutes walking distance from Theater, and meet no less than 2 hours before the overture kicks off. Even with that cushion, if the girl is great, then on the first date more than once I risked being late for the beginning. Literally, catching the breath, both of us sweaty and naked in my bed, then dressing very quickly, laughing, smiling, and walking briskly to theater for Swan Lake.

Another new girl arrived to my Airbnb 20 minutes before the show. I verbatim asked her to give me a quick BJ, she graciously leaned forward, and we both knew there's no time for a real intercourse, but she was very horny at the theater. Yet I had no true desire to fuck her there. Yes, while we were waiting outside our booth behind the curtains, while still seeing the stage, I checked out her beautiful 19 years old derriere, indeed under her skirt, and she had no stockings. Forgive me giving too much detail please, but I didn't touch her private parts.

There's erotic and there's pornography. The latter is where they show the genitals. Tasteful erotic at the theater is publicly accepted. The way the ladies of all ages dress at the theater is amazing! Who needs to pay attention to stage, when there is so much eye candy in the seats and the hallway! 20-30 age gap within the couples is no problem. As the performance unfolds, I place the palm of my hand on her thigh, and slowly move it up and towards the within. Lots of fun. My imagination is strong enough, and the inside of the young lady's thigh is oh so tender. I do not even dare to continue my thoughts to fully explain. And specifically for this purpose, I do ask my regulars to put on thin fabric dresses.

Anyway, one of the girls upon returning from Giselle to my AirBnB complained that I didn't touch her thigh during ballet. I always did, taking her perhaps to 8 or 10 different times. She totally expected it. Go figure!

I very much enjoy Theater myself. Few glasses of champagne, and then Armenian brendy, plus a young beauty makes it even more pleasurable. Then we go to Avalon for a dinner, and then for another round at my place. That's where mediocre ones do not pass the test, and the great ones become regulars, some even staying overnight, no money discussed. Girls love leaving the fairy tales, and I don't rush them. Get paid back in spades.

So, to answer your question straight, no, I don't think it's possible to have a good BJ or a HJ at the theater. Even those girls that agree to go together, they don't care about sex while there's action on stage.

Photoslider, what is the price you pay for them for the evening. Couple of times of sex?

[QUOTE=PhotoSlider;2656376]
Anyway, one of the girls upon returning from Giselle to my AirBnB complained that I didn't touch her thigh during ballet. I always did, taking her perhaps to 8 or 10 different times. She totally expected it. Go figure!
[/QUOTE]Was she a referral? (was that the proper word for it.).

[QUOTE=Desin;2656715]Photoslider, what is the price you pay for them for the evening. Couple of times of sex?

Was she a referral? (was that the proper word for it.).[/QUOTE]This particular one was free. It's a long story: I met her as a referral from Relax masseuse. The latter one couldn't go with me in 2014, and introduced to her friend from remote village. And that country girl is now my longest term regular. That was 36 hours visit and personal record of having 6 girls, including one FMF threesome.

The worst cases at the Theater moneywise are GIA or agency / apartment hourly girls.

GIA was too expensive on the first date, 300-500 USD, even taking into account their progressive payment scale. I used to pay GIA dispatcher for the first hour ($150-200), and then paid the girl directly about 60-75%. Great way to establish reliable business partners. This way I got 4 GIA employees, who then retired from the shop, but kept enjoying the lifestyle. 2 of them are still in contact. The third girl was that mentally traumatized from Luhansk / Donbas. The fourth one was not sincere enough, yet I remember how upon leaving for her University class in the morning she exclaimed: "Well, I am certainly allowed to, and have time for this!" then reached under the blanket, and performed an impeccable BBBJ.

Hourly girls are too much hassle at the Theater. They get calls from the dispatcher checking on them every hour, that they are still OK, and all that BS. I hear these days it's 3000 UAH an hour. But you don't have to keep her for the duration. One girl misbehaved by pulling her phone and attempting to chat during Nutcracker. I invited her outside of our box suite for a moment, and then told her to leave even before the first intermission.

Regular girls are truly the best. Those fall into 2 categories. Businesswomen, where I pay 1000 UAH an hour, and cup it off at 5 K UAH. And pseudo-GFs, - those trusting me well enough, so that payment is not discussed. Usually they arrive on the commuter train, couple hours away, and stay with me for up to 5 days. They love Theater. I pay their life expenses within reasonable limits, like 1600-1800 UAH dorm fee for semester, or couple pairs of everyday shoes, good Levi's jeans, lingerie, etc. It makes total sense to me while visiting Kiev for 4-6 weeks. If I get bored, I send the current girl to do her manicure, and pedicure first ever in her life for a couple hours, and tell the dispatcher to send me an hourly or two for variety. Also at the end of my visit, just like Kozerog, I give a good bonus (3-10 K UAH, and up to $1 k) to my best favorite girl.

I go with the flow. That hourly girl Zhanna, with a firm round good size ass, I probably paid about $300, expensive, but she was great. I don't do that anymore. Because my funds can be used more wisely, even within our hobby, but also because hourly girls with rare exceptions are not classy enough. I did convert a few to my regulars. With one in particular, stage name Paulina, it could have been transformed into a good script, like "Pretty woman" with Julia Roberts. I had her once in September 2018, and on the very first encounter I extended her for another hour right away, because she was outstanding in bed. Then in December 2018 before my departure from Kiev we partied with a local friend, ordering girls, drinking. He was happy, I thought we could have done better. Then he left, and I called the dispatcher for the third round: "More wine, and fresh women!" The door of the delivery vehicle opened, and lo and behold, I see Paulina blushing, and saying in her sweetest voice: "I wanted it to happen differentlyyyy." Anyway, she stayed with me for a few hours, I introduced her to my driver / events manager, and we are still in contact. Actually, she was one of the few that sent me Happy New Years Eve message a month ago. With her Theater was free. She was shy to kiss outside in public, but awesome in bed, and more importantly. A great person to be with.

I am far from the thought to be judgmental. If the guy wants to fuck the beauty at the Theater, and she is creative enough, then by all means go for it. At the same time I know from personal experience that ticket babushkas and other service folks watch closely that alcohol is not consumed during the ongoing performance on stage, especially if you are sitting in the front row. Perhaps ushers would notice, and object to your minor mischief. Maybe not persecute or report, but it can be unpleasant, for her, or both. I used to go Theater at least twice a week, and prefer to keep it kosher myself.

Either way, it is difficult to negotiate at the Theater, so to keep any expectations realistic, I would discuss it explicitly beforehand. IMHO baignoire box seats are the best for the purpose. I did DFK there NP. Having my hand up high on her bare thigh in parterre never attracted anybody's attention. And I do it slowly, but steadily. If my advances are not welcome, then she is the wrong girl. Another way to test the new girl on the first date at the Theater is always taking her to the third level during intermission, show the stage from the above, then find a somewhat secret corner, and kiss her. Out of a few that I tried, nobody refused a gentle deep kiss. And there's much less unsolicited witnesses in the hallway of the third level.

Best wishes in your endeavors!

[QUOTE=VinDici;2653347]I tried this on my last visit. One girl was particularly keen on repeat visits with me, but I tend to go for older, so I was a little apprehensive. I later relented since I figured her enthusiasm for me would make for great fuck sessions, as she would be motivated to keep my interest. I have always wanted to fuck a girl in the Theatre and would happily settle for a blowie or a handy, depending on what I could get away with, so I agreed to meet this girl on the condition that there would be some hanky panky.

I booked a private box at the ballet, and picked one that seemed to be the most discreet seating.

When we were there I was hoping to slip my hand up her skirt, but she stopped me, and I got a half hearted handy, but she was so concerned about us being found out, that there was no skill applied, as such I couldn't even get hard. Total waste of tickets, hors the'oeuvres and drinks. I fucked her when we got home, but all in all it was a disappointment. Obviously she wanted another meet during my visit, so I made a booking, but I cancelled on her at the last minute as punishment.

Anyone here had sucess fucking a girl at the theatre / opera / ballet, and if so, how did you manage it?[/QUOTE]

This kind of behavior only makes Ukrainian ladies' expectation of western men even lower.

I myself once pissed off a ballerina-wannabe 19 y. o. girl by saying, "If I rent out the Kyiv Opera House, would you dance for me?"

I heard that back in the Soviet times Kyiv's opera / ballet was one of the top three along with Kirov and Bolshoi. But upon checking them out with my own eyes, Kyiv's was nowhere close to the quality of Mariinsky or Bolshoi today, or any of the major western European opera/ballet companies. So I stopped going to the National Opera of Ukraine in Kyiv. But in order to lure ladies it still works well understandably. Use it wisely, I'd say.

[QUOTE=PhotoSlider;2656766]I am far from the thought to be judgmental. If the guy wants to fuck the beauty at the Theater, and she is creative enough, then by all means go for it. At the same time I know from personal experience that ticket babushkas and other service folks watch closely that alcohol is not consumed during the ongoing performance on stage, especially if you are sitting in the front row. Perhaps ushers would notice, and object to your minor mischief. Maybe not persecute or report, but it can be unpleasant, for her, or both. I used to go Theater at least twice a week, and prefer to keep it kosher myself.

Either way, it is difficult to negotiate at the Theater, so to keep any expectations realistic, I would discuss it explicitly beforehand. IMHO baignoire box seats are the best for the purpose. I did DFK there NP. Having my hand up high on her bare thigh in parterre never attracted anybody's attention. And I do it slowly, but steadily. If my advances are not welcome, then she is the wrong girl. Another way to test the new girl on the first date at the Theater is always taking her to the third level during intermission, show the stage from the above, then find a somewhat secret corner, and kiss her. Out of a few that I tried, nobody refused a gentle deep kiss. And there's much less unsolicited witnesses in the hallway of the third level.

Best wishes in your endeavors![/QUOTE]On this occasion I selected an escort, one I had met twice before, not a civvie, and made the expectations clear beforehand. I had purchased seats in a private box to the far left of the stage, and also purchased the seats adjoining this box, to ensure as much privacy as possible. The girl herself, had zero interest in theatre, and this performance was a ballet, which I guess is the most challenging to watch if you are not a true enthusiast. After the first intermission, we left and retired to my apartment, since she could neither perform as agreed, nor had interest in the performance on stage, and I can't enjoy it myself if the person I am with is noticeably bored.

I would have been satisified with a handjob (not to completion since I wouldn't want to deal with clean up) and getting to play with her between her legs, but neither were on the cards.

[QUOTE=Sorbonne;2656773]This kind of behavior only makes Ukrainian ladies' expectation of western men even lower.

I myself once pissed off a ballerina-wannabe 19 y. o. girl by saying, "If I rent out the Kyiv Opera House, would you dance for me?"

I heard that back in the Soviet times Kyiv's opera / ballet was one of the top three along with Kirov and Bolshoi. But upon checking them out with my own eyes, Kyiv's was nowhere close to the quality of Mariinsky or Bolshoi today, or any of the major western European opera/ballet companies. So I stopped going to the National Opera of Ukraine in Kyiv. But in order to lure ladies it still works well understandably. Use it wisely, I'd say.[/QUOTE]If western men approached civvies and behaved this way certainly, I would agree. However approaching a sex worker and asking for sexual services in the context of a fetish, with full consent, doesn't seem inappropriate to me.

[QUOTE=VinDici;2657550]On this occasion I selected an escort, one I had met twice before, not a civvie, and made the expectations clear beforehand. I had purchased seats in a private box to the far left of the stage, and also purchased the seats adjoining this box, to ensure as much privacy as possible. The girl herself, had zero interest in theatre, and this performance was a ballet, which I guess is the most challenging to watch if you are not a true enthusiast. After the first intermission, we left and retired to my apartment, since she could neither perform as agreed, nor had interest in the performance on stage, and I can't enjoy it myself if the person I am with is noticeably bored.

I would have been satisified with a handjob (not to completion since I wouldn't want to deal with clean up) and getting to play with her between her legs, but neither were on the cards.[/QUOTE]I vaguely recall you and I had a discussion about this. If I misspoke and gave you a false hope, misinformed you, - my profound apologies. This sort of knowledge transfer better be done in person.

Your girl got the money she wanted. You came a bit short. I have had an unpleasant experience with hourly girls twice, where one wasn't interested in the action on stage, misbehaved, and I released her. The other one had a long argument with a pesky controlling dispatcher, that tried to assert her power over the providing employee. But then she was glued to the "Madame Butterfly" action. Not my favorite opera, but she was great in missionary before and after. 19 years, passionate, beautiful, and still in contact.

Other than that, the girls are thrilled. Probably me not trying to fuck them doggie style in front of the awed audience helped the vibes. Hahaha.

GIA girls loved both ballet and opera. Most of them are classy.

One country girl from the Western Ukraine I know for years. We had great time at the Theater more than once. During "Sleeping Beauty" the couple behind us was an obvious expensive escort with a wealthy New Yorker about 35 years old. We were sitting in the front raw, I was taking videos, and that escort had the audacity to ask for a copy of my videos. I gave her my phone, and asked to punch in her number. She pretended to ask: "Would your wife mind?" - I responded with: "As long as your husband doesn't. " I didn't contact her afterwards, she seemed too plastic / digital / insincere. My country girl was a true gem 2015-2018, and confident enough not to care. I extracted her from Rio in 2015.

On another occasion the virgin girl (first time ever at ballet) was visibly bored at the Swan Lake (It was at least a fifth show for me, I can go to Tchaikovsky anytime! I asked if she wants to leave together this god-forsaken place. She looked around and asked:

- How much are those seats over there next to us?

I explained, and told her that ours are the best, but that's OK, we can leave NP. And then she said:

- No! We need to watch till the very end. Perhaps something interesting will happen.

Later she begged me to go again, eventually becoming a theater addict. Very unorthodox young lady. Her father was a spetsnaz unit commander.

To me theater is a vetting tool, to see if it makes sense to keep the girl.

[QUOTE=Sorbonne;2656773]I myself once pissed off a ballerina-wannabe 19 y. o. girl by saying, "If I rent out the Kyiv Opera House, would you dance for me?"

I heard that back in the Soviet times Kyiv's opera / ballet was one of the top three along with Kirov and Bolshoi. But upon checking them out with my own eyes, Kyiv's was nowhere close to the quality of Mariinsky or Bolshoi today, or any of the major western European opera/ballet companies. So I stopped going to the National Opera of Ukraine in Kyiv. But in order to lure ladies it still works well understandably.[/QUOTE]The character dancer from Mariinsky was a friend of mine. She even held Baryshnikov's hand on occasion. I didn't get a chance to visit The Temple.

Did visit Bolshoy, as I had a girl whose mom in mid-80's was part of the Soviet Government with access to tickets. At the time though, I was too young to comprehend.

I also had at least 5 escorts with ballet education: classical, contemporary, ethnic dance. The latter was multi-orgasmic. Yet, holding the hands of the classical dancer while she is in her lace panties standing on points, very exhilarating!

Reading these posts would make more sense if there were prices and sources of pick up included.

[QUOTE=Desin;2659365]Reading these posts would make more sense if there were prices and sources of pick up included.[/QUOTE]Yep, same here. Wish when I visited, there were clear directions: "Here are the most affordable, yet reliable, and amazingly beautiful girls available for your pleasure at $34.99 a minute. Please proceed and order at your leisure."

There are no pre-digested ready-to-consume FKK's in Ukraine, Desin.

The thrill is in the hunt, in proving to myself that I can find gorgeous females willing to spend great time with me.

Hope I'll be there again one day yet in this life.

[QUOTE=Desin;2659365]Reading these posts would make more sense if there were prices and sources of pick up included.[/QUOTE]A few years ago it was easier. But the safe sources for cheap women have dried up. On my first visit to Kiev, dozens of women were standing in front of the Hotel Rus waiting for men. All prostitutes. But that was a long, long time ago. Then later there was the River Palace. Go there, chat up, take away. But the River Palace is gone. Today there are many apartments and escorts. Often advertised with false photos. From the price and the service offered: too expensive. In Western Europe you get the same performance for the same price. Often even cheaper. If you are not looking for real company, but only for quick sex. Along with the cost of travel, despite cheaper air tickets, Kiev is more expensive. It is so. Even if a lot of people don't want to believe that. Prices have increased significantly over the last year in particular.

Of course there is also the Caribbean Club and other discos. But on my last visits there was nothing going on. The ratio of 5 men to 1 girl (if you exclude the girls who were not for sale, who came with men or in a group). The quality rather in the lower average.

Mamba. Tinder. Badoo. Not free anymore if you really want to search and message all the girls. But here, too, there is significantly less choice than before. Lots of girls behind which agencies are hiding. Fake profiles.

The agencies usually overpriced. It is advertised with a cheap basic price. Then charged extra for each service. Order a prostitute for 2000 UAH. Then 1000 UAH for bareback blowjob. 500 UAH for kissing. 500 UAH for licking. 800 UAH for cumming on the body. Or 1000 UAH for facial. These are now the standard price lists. A service that together costs 180-200 dollars. For one hour. Not much different than "Gia". The escort service that used to be branded as very expensive. And that in Ukraine. With supposedly minimal wages and tiny incomes (300-400 dollars a month). But everyone has a new iPhone in their pocket.

If you really want amateurs. Then all you have to do is invest your time. Much time. Search on all portals. In clubs. At discos. Build contacts. So "hunt".

[QUOTE=Misterxxx;2660454]If you are not looking for real company, but only for quick sex. Along with the cost of travel, despite cheaper air tickets, Kiev is more expensive. It is so.[/QUOTE]Agree.

Successful visitors whose opinion I find valuable do not think that way. Kiev is definitely not the right place for short term visitor looking for quick sex.

[QUOTE]Of course there is also the Caribbean Club and other discos. But on my last visits there was nothing going on. The ratio of 5 men to 1 girl (if you exclude the girls who were not for sale, who came with men or in a group). The quality rather in the lower average.

Mamba. Tinder. Badoo. Not free anymore if you really want to search and message all the girls. But here, too, there is significantly less choice than before. Lots of girls behind which agencies are hiding. Fake profiles.[/QUOTE]Why even bother looking at Caribbean? Arena City? Disco? Unless you are 25-35 great looking and confident. Even then. There's so many truly classy places in Kiev away from those dumps.

10-15 years ago those managing sex industry in Kiev quickly understood that River Palace is mostly an independent competition, not bringing them much revenue. Hence it's been towed away. Nothing else even distantly reminiscent has been created ever since, except for illusion engineered to milk those with wrong expectations. It's retail business now. Instead of USD per square foot they calculate euro per girl-hour. And this approach with ordering BBBJ and DATY beforehand helps to maximize the cash flow, while not ensuring any quality. Most of visitors are either drunk, or not repeat customers anyway.

During my stay in Kiev the hourly girls told me that dispatchers warned them about me: "he is a PC, - permanent customer. " That's why statistically speaking their service level for me was noticeably higher.

[QUOTE]The agencies usually overpriced. It is advertised with a cheap basic price. Then charged extra for each service. Order a prostitute for 2000 UAH. Then 1000 UAH for bareback blowjob. 500 UAH for kissing. 500 UAH for licking. 800 UAH for cumming on the body. Or 1000 UAH for facial. These are now the standard price lists. A service that together costs 180-200 dollars. For one hour. Not much different than "Gia". The escort service that used to be branded as very expensive.[/QUOTE]Approaching it as a business with a service catalog doesn't guarantee much. Certainly not the affordable options. Why GIA should make more money? Besides, I do not know, but the protection above all of these may converge to the same power players. At least they control the segments of this market industry.

Yet again, successful visitors stay for extended periods of time, and get all of the above amenities included in the total price of the business project so to speak. And their meticulously concubines are eager to deliver. I personally know 5 gentlemen currently enjoying the lifestyle, while we argue here on our Forum.

[QUOTE]And that in Ukraine. With supposedly minimal wages and tiny incomes (300-400 dollars a month). But everyone has a new iPhone in their pocket.[/QUOTE]Kiev is not a poor city. Forget the iPhones! Take a look at the cars driven downtown. Not just 500 SEL Mercedes, not even 600, - it's Maybach, Bentley, Austin Martin. Not VW Tuareg, -Porsche SUV, Gelendwagen. Check out the dynamics of real estate prices.

Aspirations to position the girls in Kiev as hungry and begging for Western visitors attention are utterly misplaced. Wrong city and country chosen.

[QUOTE]If you really want amateurs. Then all you have to do is invest your time. Much time. Search on all portals. In clubs. At discos. Build contacts. So "hunt".[/QUOTE]Cross out clubs and discos. The rest is true 100%.

And after breaking the initial rather tough barrier, one gets into the territory where the challenge becomes not the scarcity of female resources, but rather his own bandwidth congestion, that is availability of his free time, as too many beautiful young ladies start to clog the calendar and contacts.

[QUOTE=PhotoSlider;2660307]
[QUOTE=Desin;2659365]Reading these posts would make more sense if there were prices and sources of pick up included.[/QUOTE]
The thrill is in the hunt, in proving to myself that I can find gorgeous females willing to spend great time with me.[/QUOTE]For money.

My point was that even though this is a forum into which people can write down their memoirs of past moments of glory, by adding some information into the post would make them something else that just another "oh I once did this"-story, without any informational value. For example, telling how much it cost and where was the girl found will give perspective of the amount of money required for that specific service in that timeframe, and by picking up other information from other posts that relate to the prices the reader can make an approximate estimates of how much money he should be ready to spent, if he wanted something like that to be done today.

If something was 100 dollars five years ago, then maybe it's 300 dollars today. This kind of information is useful for the traveller. It will help to build up a mental "index", which will help to determine which girls in Mamba for example are really pushing over the line, and which are in reasonable parameters.

Misterxxx provided informative post in this regard.

The time spent on Mamba trying to find girls that would accept 120 dollars is in my opinion wasted. If one is ready to pay 200,250 or 300 for an hour, then it can be worthwhile. But of course, the current situation is something that can influence the prices in short and possible long term also, depending on the outcome of the situation. So the last summer, when there were loads of Arabs in Kiev, might be very different from next summer.

In terms of other things such as accommodation and food, I found Kiev to be very affordable place to enjoy a holiday.

If people have recommendations of other destinations with similar properties in EU or near it. Safety, lots of city to walk around, affordableness and availability of non-pro / semi-pro student girls around the price range of 70-120 dollars for an incall hour. I would be interested to hear.

[QUOTE=Desin;2660948]For money.[/QUOTE]For sure! What else is there? Certainly not for me being a Brad Pitt look-alike.

My reports and memoirs provide more of a methodology, pursuing members not to waste time while having unrealistic expectations. I am definitely not a guide, taking anybody by the hand. For all I care, my posts can be ignored. No hard feelings. And thank you for respectfully explaining your aspirations, Desin.

Student girls for 70-120? That'd be my youth, many decades ago, except I didn't pay. I was a DJ, and life was different. No complaints about now either.

If intuition tells me Kiev is not a good match- I wouldn't go. 2-3 weeks is a minimum stay to find some. By the end of the week 2 real opportunities start to shape up and materialize beyond the quick fuck. 6 weeks is great, and then visit 3-4 times a year. If I cannot, then forget them university girls and all. I'd be treated as an ATM terminal.

[QUOTE=Desin;2660948]So the last summer, when there were loads of Arabs in Kiev, might be very different from next summer.[/QUOTE]Arabs will stay. They bring much needed cash, that's why the government eased their travel.

How many girls do you need? I am satisfied with alternating 3, up to 5. Sourcing them from hourly agencies, Rio, GIA in the past, massage places, barber shops, anywhere, and then friends of those girls. I used to pay GIA prices, and then didn't see the need. One GIA girl referenced me to her roommate, and while that new one was less refined, I had her for 5-9 hours, including greek, for a total of 2000 UAH. I would say she was about 7, not exactly intelligent, yet passionate in bed, and I thoroughly enjoyed our time together.

Desin, let me give you one of my easy sources. It is very time consuming, but I enjoy the process of seduction.

What is the massage price in Kiev? I don't even look at the menu, as my objective is not to have a hand job, but rather make an acquaintance, get her phone number. And I am not limited by 1 private dance at the strip club, I have full hour, and much more contact with the beauty. A good girl would tell me what she prefers. Usually 1500-1900 UAH total, and I do not ask what's included. I don't care, as with one of them eventually I will get everything, including full service, which is not even on the menu while on premises.

Again, I do not let them touch my private parts. My sperm can be utilized in a more efficient manner. Instead I offer to give them massage, and being bored to death most of them are thrilled. With more than half of the girls it progresses to DATY before they realize how sneaky I am. One girl out of 5 agrees to meet somewhere else. I offer it only to those I qualify through our conversation as worthy candidates. I speak 5 languages.

The easiest is to ask if she is available for an outcall and offer to pay her directly, cutting out the management. But that part can be tricky, and I surely don't want to be perceived as a creep. One of them I offered a lunch or dinner. I asked her for a category of a restaurant that she likes: sushi or seafood in general is great. I make the decision where to go. If she doesn't show up, I eat solo. Her loss.

I am genuinely interested in learning more about that young lady's personality. And I don't ever raise the subject of sex. That helps me to get full service eventually in a more natural non-professional way. Since I have a few girls to keep me busy, I am not eager to escalate it. Girls expect me pressing them for sex, as they are bombarded with offers through Instagram and at work, but I don't. Their curiosity makes them flirt more intensely, as they try to leverage their power over me, and eventually we end up in bed.

Sure along the way I spend money, but I can afford GIA, and I can certainly afford country girls from massage parlors. I identify their true needs, and I am not associated with gold diggers anyway.

How much do I pay for their company? It averages out to about 10 bucks an hour with the best girls of GIA caliber, if we are talking days together. On a few hours date it is no more than 1000 UAH / hour. One of the girls had a fixed price of 3000 uah per date plus moderate expenses along the way.

Ultimately it's my time. Admittedly this will not work for many. It does for me.

Asking a massage girl in Kiev about a quick fuck offering her 70-120 bucks ain't going to work. No offense meant, Desin.

I have not been in Kiev for long time. I just talk with a local friend from Kiev he told me that there are military control at the access roads to Kiev now. He also said that people start to go to the mountains and countryside now (and make a plan to leave the city very fast). And that people are more scared now than for just 10-12 day's ago (because that Russia now have send warships into The Black Sea and that new satellite pictures show that the Russian army have trops at the border between Belarus and Ukraine very close to Kiev.

My friend told me there are a other atmosphere there now than just for 1 week ago.

Be careful if you go to Ukraine at this moment.

[QUOTE=Desin;2660948]For example, telling how much it cost and where was the girl found will give perspective of the amount of money required for that specific service in that timeframe, and by picking up other information from other posts that relate to the prices the reader can make an approximate estimates of how much money he should be ready to spent, if he wanted something like that to be done today.[/QUOTE]Where to find doesn't matter much. Girls are everywhere. Even the initial investment is not that critical.

Whoever says language unimportant is wrong. One has better chances with semi-pro or civilians when communication is at the deeper level. Besides you are not treated as a sex tourist.

Sure I have friends visiting Kiev regularly only with English, and strictly for rented love. But they visit periodically, and establish reliable contacts, subsequently with better quality of service. Girls got to have fun too, and entertainment is enjoyed together. No secret.

Major factor is time. If you think Mamba is a waste of effort, then you approach Kiev girls from the consumer's point of view. And Kiev girls don't care. They think differently. Unless you want a quick fuck from an overpriced pro at the Arena City or Rio or mediocre encounter in the corner bedroom of a club or an agency apartment, you shouldn't bother going to Kiev. The industry for our hobby is marketed perfectly over there, but it is not designed to please the visitor. It is designed to maximize the profit. Dream factory.

Where else in the world? It depends on you before seeking any advice. Wishful thinking leads to unjustified expenses. At least you are honest in your expectations, Desin. Helps to make a decision.

For myself personally Kiev is top 3 destination worldwide, and not just for hobby. Considering that I am native speaker, it is the only one I consider.

Desin,

Apologies if my posts come across as patronizing and less than useful. Indeed I miss those glorious days in Kiev dearly.

[QUOTE=PhotoSlider;2660975]
My reports and memoirs provide more of a methodology, pursuing members not to waste time while having unrealistic expectations. I am definitely not a guide, taking anybody by the hand. For all I care, my posts can be ignored. No hard feelings. And thank you for respectfully explaining your aspirations, Desin.[/QUOTE]And I have read them with joy and interest, when they have not been in the certain kind of spirit which can be seen in this forum every now and then. That of an egoistic narrative depicting some years ago happened scenes, without informative value to the current readership. I hadn't seen this in your post, at least I don't remember that there would have been it that much that it would had affected my valuation towards your writings (the opposite is more true), but lately your posts had regrettably come to fall to this category. This is why I noted about it. The post you just made was 'back on the track' and it was joy to read, again.

[QUOTE=PhotoSlider;2661058]Arabs will stay. They bring much needed cash, that's why the government eased their travel.[/QUOTE]I'm thinking about the current situation in relation to timing: if the situation doesn't dissolve, will the Arabs be that crowd that can still pick up flights couple of months before summer vacation season and choose Kiev as their destination? Or are they 'regular' people who make their travel plans early on in the spring-time?

[QUOTE=PhotoSlider;2661058]How many girls do you need? I am satisfied with alternating 3, up to 5. Sourcing them from hourly agencies, Rio, GIA in the past, massage places, barber shops, anywhere, and then friends of those girls.[/QUOTE]Sounds about the same for my ideal. But the time is not on one's side if they have to be searched from many different sources with either fake pictures or with the use of other language than English. I didn't dare to try agencies on my visit to Kiev, until one night when I was swiping the Tinder after couple of cocktails and noted that there was a number on one of the pictures. So that was my first experience with an 'agency girl'. It was 120 dollars for an hour. Now I don't have a problem for the idea of it, but only because of the lack of trust to get what I would order. A strategy that I had mused was to have multiple agency numbers and test them out in the first days of the trip to see which one would provide the girls from their photos. I didn't follow this plan because I didn't feel comfortable to use them (at first, before this one try) and because majority of the numbers went cold before my trip. If Kiev would be my destination again, then this could be one way to approach the situation. In Mamba I had several contacts, but when asked for their real pictures and starting to communicate, I felt that they were not what I seeked. I met one girl from Mamba. She was recommended here.

[QUOTE=PhotoSlider;2661058]
Desin, let me give you one of my easy sources. It is very time consuming, but I enjoy the process of seduction.[/QUOTE]This is a major difference in approach. For me, there are women whom I consider interesting. These are highly intelligent and either educated or creative persons. Then there are the women I want to fuck. It is extremely rare for these two to coincide. I met a girl from Tinder in Kiev and she even did the joke about me offering money for sex, but since I hesitated with "is this a trap"-thought (like would she just delete me from contacts) and instead went for the non-sexual approach (we went to take pictures for some hours) I didn't dare to ask it again. It would have been exactly what I had hoped for. In retrospect I understand that she would have not kept that age group in Tinder, if it wasn't for money.

[QUOTE=PhotoSlider;2661058]What is the massage price in Kiev? I don't even look at the menu, as my objective is not to have a hand job, but rather make an acquaintance, get her phone number.[/QUOTE]I made a visit to such a place, just for the experience as many people seem to enjoy them, but it was not for my taste. If there would be a girl who would speak very good English and had humanistic studies in university, then I could strike a conversation. But this was a good experience, because now I can rule out the 'getting her phone number' from my ways of approaching the subject at hand.

[QUOTE=PhotoSlider;2661058]
I am genuinely interested in learning more about that young lady's personality. And I don't ever raise the subject of sex. That helps me to get full service eventually in a more natural non-professional way. Since I have a few girls to keep me busy, I am not eager to escalate it. Girls expect me pressing them for sex, as they are bombarded with offers through Instagram and at work, but I don't. Their curiosity makes them flirt more intensely, as they try to leverage their power over me, and eventually we end up in bed.[/QUOTE]I think I understand what is your thrill or joy in this. Maybe one day I might enjoy the same. But at the present moment, I don't really want to get to know the girl I want to fuck. If I find a girl really interesting, I actually want to have many hours of conversation with her. The sex would spoil something of it, for me.

[QUOTE=PhotoSlider;2661058]
Asking a massage girl in Kiev about a quick fuck offering her 70-120 bucks ain't going to work. No offense meant, Desin.[/QUOTE]That price range was indicating the comfortable zone that I would prefer to pay for a student girl for her services. Found through Mamba, Tinder or Badoo. I don't pay 230-300 dollars anymore, which I used to do when I started the hobby. Only locals I have met in the recent years have halved their price for me or been around 120-140 dollars. So I would not want to pay more in a cheaper country than what I would pay here at the cheapest (which is my normal price now). I've had enough experiences to find out what kind of sex I like and what kind of bodies and faces I like. I don't consider sex with the most beautiful woman I have been with to be worth her price (was it 250 or 300 dollars, which is the regular non-regular price in my country) for second time. Only because of the experience and the memory I can think that okay, it was not waste of money even if the sex was just basic. And if I consider the best sex that I have had. With girls who really get my eyes to twinkle (the ones I had for regulars) - I wouldn't pay them more than that 140 dollars for an hour. It's just not worth it, even if the sex is really awesome each time. So this is my logic and reasoning for the price range. Travelling to another country which has other prices so much lower compared to my country, I'm not prepared nor willing to pay more than here. I'd rather pay less. If I would find a girl who I could and would want to meet every day or every other day as a regular, then the optimal money-for-sex ration would be around 70-120 dollars. One hour meetings are good for me, three hours are max. I don't want to spent time with the girl after the essentials.

The problem with agencies and apartments is the lack of English and the sheer number of hit-and-misses one would have to make. So other venues where English is used is the way for me. I'm not comfortable to approach girls on the street, even though there were situations were regular girls did give some looks. I regret that I didn't realize to spend time in the main street after 22 pm, as some said that there are local girls there who are looking for clients. This and Mamba could be an option. Or an agency with 100% real pictures of the girls bodies. I think that the competition in Tinder is really high. I mean that you got to have those pics that would do it for regular girls as well. And the prices too, so that's not an realistic venue to pursue girls. But one could get lucky. And also scammed and robbed.

I liked Kiev a lot. Unfortunately I was too busy with my phone trying to find contacts that I couldn't enjoy it in real holiday sense. I feel that a requirement for a successful visit would be to have at least one reliable and enjoyable contact, with whom one can have sex in each day he wants. This would take out the pressure and the rest would be just a bonus. And no need to waste hours and hours for the search on the ground. It already takes so lot of time to try to find them before arriving the destination.

[QUOTE=Desin;2661312]I'm thinking about the current situation in relation to timing: if the situation doesn't dissolve, will the Arabs be that crowd that can still pick up flights couple of months before summer vacation season and choose Kiev as their destination? Or are they 'regular' people who make their travel plans early on in the spring-time?[/QUOTE]I do not consider anybody as my competition. I don't care who the visitors are. Arabs, Germans, Brits, Israeli, - same difference to me. My interest is in Ukrainian beauties. Most of the time I think about females anyway, and not about men.

[QUOTE]For me, there are women whom I consider interesting. These are highly intelligent and either educated or creative persons. Then there are the women I want to fuck. It is extremely rare for these two to coincide.[/QUOTE]To me the sexiest part of female body is brain. Having sex with intelligent, creative, interesting woman gives incomparable pleasure. Yes, those are rare, but their density in population of Kiev is certainly few orders of the value higher than average on the planet. Take into the account how Ukrainian moms bring up their daughters, teach them proper behavior, and there is no comparison.

[QUOTE]I met a girl from Tinder in Kiev and she even did the joke about me offering money for sex, but since I hesitated with "is this a trap"-thought (like would she just delete me from contacts) and instead went for the non-sexual approach (we went to take pictures for some hours) I didn't dare to ask it again. It would have been exactly what I had hoped for. In retrospect I understand that she would have not kept that age group in Tinder, if it wasn't for money.[/QUOTE]I would say you made a mistake. And it's good that you are strong enough to admit it. Ukrainian women like sex.

[QUOTE]at the present moment, I don't really want to get to know the girl I want to fuck. If I find a girl really interesting, I actually want to have many hours of conversation with her. The sex would spoil something of it, for me.[/QUOTE]At least you want to have a conversation with some. Not everybody does.

Yeah, I mix and interweave all sorts of female personalities and behavior. Creates an interesting fabric of my life.

[QUOTE]But one could get lucky. And also scammed and robbed.[/QUOTE]No reason to be reckless and careless in any locality, but females feel if you are not sure how to proceed. May destroy the vibes.

[QUOTE]I feel that a requirement for a successful visit would be to have at least one reliable and enjoyable contact, with whom one can have sex in each day he wants.[/QUOTE]It certainly is possible. 3-4 weeks in and heavenly gates open up.

[QUOTE=PhotoSlider;2661398]I do not consider anybody as my competition. I don't care who the visitors are. Arabs, Germans, Brits, Israeli, - same difference to me. My interest is in Ukrainian beauties. Most of the time I think about females anyway, and not about men.[/QUOTE]Last summer people were reporting that the prices had gone high because of the Arabs flooding the streets and markets of Kiev. There really were a lot of them. So it's no wonder that my 120 dollar offers in Mamba didn't attract too much interest.

My thoughts are that summer 2022 could be different because of the current uncertain political situation. How many people are ready to make plans or book trips to Kiev at this moment? If the situation doesn't dissolve to normal in this month. Or at least the next month. I would expect it to have an impact on tourism on summer season. And that could bring the prices down. If this happens then Kiev would be an interest of mine again.

Let's see how it plays out.

[QUOTE=Desin;2661735]I would expect it to have an impact on tourism on summer season. And that could bring the prices down. If this happens then Kiev would be an interest of mine again.[/QUOTE]Yep, consumer mentality. I'm not saying pay premium. My philosophy is simple: I need 3-5 girls, regulars from prior visits, interspersed with newly found barbers, masseuses, and hourly providers. I think I'll be able to find those.

One of my regulars still wants to meet. She is the one that easily allowed me to bring in my new beauties, while she slept on the sofa in leaving room at my apartment. I found her in Kiev in June 2014, when invasion into Eastern Ukraine was in full swing. I didn't notice any difference. Had 6 girls total in 36 hours after landing at KBP, and then departing. Including threesome with beautiful Lana and another no name girl from the good agency, that doesn't exist anymore.

If the history teaches us anything, then you would understand that when times are tough, and the visiting hobbyists are scarce, Ukrainian girls raise prices.

Stop analyzing. You over-engineer it. Just go and fuck them, wherever it strikes your fancy. Africa, Australia, there are girls everywhere. You already mentioned spending too much time on smartphone. Typical mistake in Kiev.

Best of luck!

[QUOTE=Desin;2661735]Last summer people were reporting that the prices had gone high because of the Arabs flooding the streets and markets of Kiev. There really were a lot of them. So it's no wonder that my 120 dollar offers in Mamba didn't attract too much interest.

My thoughts are that summer 2022 could be different because of the current uncertain political situation. How many people are ready to make plans or book trips to Kiev at this moment? If the situation doesn't dissolve to normal in this month. Or at least the next month. I would expect it to have an impact on tourism on summer season. And that could bring the prices down. If this happens then Kiev would be an interest of mine again.

Let's see how it plays out.[/QUOTE]No. Fatal mistake.

Best price if you go right now. Girls need money. Summer = The crisis will be over. Tourists come back. Every nice girl will be on vacation. Or Kyiv will be a part of Russia.

Many foreign ministry service say do not travel to Ukraine and if you are in Ukraine leave ASP. The situation is out of control and Russia can attack any time.

My advice do not go to Ukraine and if you are in Ukraine leave fast.

[QUOTE=Nero6;2662113]Many foreign ministry service say do not travel to Ukraine and if you are in Ukraine leave ASP. The situation is out of control and Russia can attack any time.

My advice do not go to Ukraine and if you are in Ukraine leave fast.[/QUOTE]Are you in Ukraine, or is this advice based on news reports?

[QUOTE=VinDici;2662302]Are you in Ukraine, or is this advice based on news reports?[/QUOTE]I left. This is based on local and foreign people I know in Ukraine. The foreigners I know in Ukraine (some already left) and the rest will leave this weekend. Why do you think so many countries Foreign Minister service say leave Ukraine now (fast).

Also today the Russians start to send there diplomats out of Ukraine and back to Russia.

Also the last couple of day's there just been built a large field hospital on the Russian side of the border.

And from Kiev to the Berlarus border where there are Russian trops only few hours drive.

[QUOTE=PhotoSlider;2661840]Yep, consumer mentality. I'm not saying pay premium.[/QUOTE]It's simple logic: when the girls have a lot of potential clients lining up in Mamba, they can charge more. When there are less. To the point that they would like to have more. Then they can accept lower prices. About premium: like I said, I've already paid enough 250-300 dollar / hours and found out that it's simply not worth it. My regulars have been less than 150 dollar for hour and their looks and skills in sex have been perfect for me, so I won't settle for less. Since so few girls in Mamba replied last summer, the market in Kiev didn't appear satisfying. If this would change, it gives a new interest to the city. I liked the place otherwise.

[QUOTE=PhotoSlider;2661840]If the history teaches us anything, then you would understand that when times are tough, and the visiting hobbyists are scarce, Ukrainian girls raise prices.[/QUOTE]This sentence requires further explanation, since there hasn't been mentions about the prices in previous critical moments in the history of Kiev / Ukraine. Is this your personal experience? Where did the spike in prices show up? Non-pro, semi-pro, pro?

[QUOTE=PhotoSlider;2661840]Stop analyzing. You over-engineer it.[/QUOTE]It's called planning. I use this forum to find a place to have a holiday. That's the reason to read these posts: to find information about availability, prices and experiences with independent girls, salons etc. I see that some like to use it for other purposes, but based on the amount of questions related to direct experiences concerning prices, availability of girls etc. In this forum at large, I would say that most of the people are here for that. To share their experiences among these issues. Some like to write stories of what they did. All the way to what positions they had etc. - but I find that to be rather amusing. In a silly way. But everyone to their tastes.

There was good discussion around last spring and summer.

[QUOTE=Misterxxx;2661960]No. Fatal mistake.

Best price if you go right now. Girls need money. Summer = The crisis will be over. Tourists come back. Every nice girl will be on vacation. Or Kyiv will be a part of Russia.[/QUOTE]1st: there are periodically fixed vacation times that prevent the travel at one's leisure, so my main trip of the year will be in the summer season. I'd say that I have to book my trip in the next two months, so I still have a little bit of time to wait to see if the dust will rise or settle down.

2st: I wouldn't consider it safe to travel at this moment. Nobody can say what will happen to the (return) flights in the next month.

[QUOTE=Misterxxx;2661960]No. Fatal mistake.

Best price if you go right now. Girls need money. Summer = The crisis will be over. Tourists come back. Every nice girl will be on vacation. Or Kyiv will be a part of Russia.[/QUOTE]Yes, this is the optimum time for price conscious person to travel to Ukraine. The flights are cheap, girls are free and service should be lot better with good options. There might be some skirmishes going on in Kiev and other areas closer to Russia but for the most part you can have good time in places like Lviv, Ternopil, Ivano-Frankivisk and other cities located in western Ukraine.

[QUOTE=Nero6;2662304]I left. This is based on local and foreign people I know in Ukraine. The foreigners I know in Ukraine (some already left) and the rest will leave this weekend. Why do you think so many countries Foreign Minister service say leave Ukraine now (fast).

Also today the Russians start to send there diplomats out of Ukraine and back to Russia.

Also the last couple of day's there just been built a large field hospital on the Russian side of the border.

And from Kiev to the Berlarus border where there are Russian trops only few hours drive.[/QUOTE]And today [URL]https://www.archyde.com/the-iraqi-foreign-ministry-asked-its-citizens-to-leave-ukraine-and-not-to-travel-to-it/[/URL].

What a Fucking joke from a bunch of crooks and thieves where its citizens only weeks ago were camped on the Belarus border trying to get into Poland after paying thousands of $" to flee Iraq.

[URL]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0qzW39ZVqCw[/URL]

[QUOTE=Desin;2662373]It's simple logic.[/QUOTE]Did this logic help while preparing for visits? Or score consistently while already in Kiev? Or anywhere else?

Everybody has his own preferences. Some work better than others. Some habits are difficult to abandon.

Empirical practice results seem like a good criteria of success.

Best of luck in your future endeavors, and please post your reports. With or without the graphic description of positions. I personally like missionary, because I can go for DFK. Doggie is equally attractive, just the thought of firmly holding in my hands one of those gorgeous behinds leaves me speechless for a moment. But then there are young ballerinas and gymnast ladies, that opened up a totally different universe, that Kama Sutra didn't help me to even imagine.

KLM and Lufthansa have now stop flying in and out of Ukraine. I hope you all got out in time.

[QUOTE=Nero6;2662727]KLM and Lufthansa have now stop flying in and out of Ukraine. I hope you all got out in time.[/QUOTE]On the ground in Kiev and they are the ones who know the situation more than anyone else and they are not in a Rush to Leave.

[URL]https://www.timesofisrael.com/with-empty-seats-on-flights-out-of-ukraine-israelis-evidently-in-no-rush-to-leave/[/URL]

'sources in the aviation industry confirmed to the Kan public broadcaster that there are hardly any Israelis leaving Ukraine, with low occupancy on each flight out to Israel.'

[QUOTE=PhotoSlider;2662616]Did this logic help while preparing for visits? Or score consistently while already in Kiev? Or anywhere else?.[/QUOTE]Yes, the (ages old) logic of supply and demand proved to be correct: as other persons in this forum stated last summer, the prices had suddenly gone up because of the flood of Arabs. This brought down the availability of 120 dollar (non-salon) girls, which were supposed to be on relatively good supply based on previous information from both the forum and personal communication with girls before the summer season. This leads to the conclusion that certain changes in the supply and demand rate can and most likely will affect prices in such a way that one has to pay more. Since the news of the changed situation came only weeks before the trip, it was too late to change plans. This is why it's smart to take the whole situation in consideration, when planning a trip.

By the way, you didn't offer any contradicting examples about "learning about history", in regards that the prices would go up if the demand goes down. I'm willing to read such examples with interest, if you have them.

Before last summer's trip I actually had contacted girls through Mamba that were willing to come for that 120 dollar price, but the more they sent me their pictures and the more I communicated with them (and I kept this to the minimum) the less I wanted to meet them. I don't care for certain kind of individuals, of which one can usually recognize from their style.

Even as my purpose is not to buy girls attention with money, to use it as a tool to get her interest directed towards me, I've become more and more picky in regards to the character of the girl: I've noted that I don't enjoy sex to the fullest if the personality of the girl is such that I find it even a bit of repulsive. Finding a girl I really want to meet just for sex is a time consuming process, and even if the supply is good (like in the case of 250-300 dollar girls, where one can just pick whomever he wants) it's a rather slim chance to find a keeper. A girl whom I prefer and with whom sex is always good. I've met three of these. That's like one out of ten.

Personally, I have yet to make a decision of whether to travel to Kiev if this situation is calmed down in the next month. If all is normalized, then Kiev goes up in terms of appeal. Supply and demand might be on a good spot.

[QUOTE=CallSignRomeo;2662422]Yes, this is the optimum time for price conscious person to travel to Ukraine. The flights are cheap, girls are free and service should be lot better with good options. There might be some skirmishes going on in Kiev and other areas closer to Russia but for the most part you can have good time in places like Lviv, Ternopil, Ivano-Frankivisk and other cities located in western Ukraine.[/QUOTE]Optimum time? Hmm anyone mention about the war that is going to start? Are you sure you mention optimum time is now?

[QUOTE=RacShack;2663034]Optimum time? Hmm anyone mention about the war that is going to start? Are you sure you mention optimum time is now?[/QUOTE]Yes optimum time for travelling to western Ukraine viz Lviv, Ternopil and so on as for the most part if the war starts it will be centred around Eastern Ukraine and Kiev oblast. This is true as lot of embassies have already moved to Lviv and if SHTF people will have time to travel to Polish border as it is only 4-5 hours away. It is very unlikely Russians will target civilians fleeing towards polish border if worse case scenario does happen.

Although it sounds crude my statements are in line with what President Zelensky has been saying all this while- if you cause large scale economic damage without firing a single bullet that's lot of harm done already!

[QUOTE=Jojosun;2662845]On the ground in Kiev and they are the ones who know the situation more than anyone else and they are not in a Rush to Leave.

[URL]https://www.timesofisrael.com/with-empty-seats-on-flights-out-of-ukraine-israelis-evidently-in-no-rush-to-leave/[/URL]

'sources in the aviation industry confirmed to the Kan public broadcaster that there are hardly any Israelis leaving Ukraine, with low occupancy on each flight out to Israel.'[/QUOTE]Nice to hear you still are in Kiev (I hope you have fun). Of course it is up to people self to decide what they will do in this situation (stay or leave). But I hope we can agree on if Russia start to attract Ukraine it will be very difficult to leave Ukraine. I can tell you not many Danish people back and the Danish Minister og Foreign Affairs said to the few Danish people there will stay in Ukraine (Denmark will not come and save you, if Russia attack than you most manage by your self). It is the same as many other government in the world have said to there citizens in Ukraine.

Be safe.

[QUOTE=RacShack;2663034]Optimum time? Hmm anyone mention about the war that is going to start? Are you sure you mention optimum time is now?[/QUOTE]Why would Putin want a war now? Maybe two weeks ago there was a risk that Putin would look weak if he attacked. Whereas if Russia continues these war games another month, then goes home while leaving all their military gear in place, ready to attack in the future, USA is going to look like a bunch of hysterical fools. Meanwhile, Ukraine's economy is getting hammered again. Meaning a new government next election. War is risky and expensive. Much cheaper and safer for Putin to slowly grind Ukraine into submitting to his will.

I agree with Photoslider that SOME Ukrainians use that backward economic thinking, such that the fewer customers, the higher the price, to make up for lost business. But they are not all like that. More common is to simply hold the price steady. In which case, crisis doesn't mean lower prices, but it might mean much better selection and eagerness to please.

Optimum time or not, you guys in Kyiv can at least f* like there is no tomorrow. Enjoy!

[QUOTE=Kozerog;2663199]SOME Ukrainians use that backward economic thinking, such that the fewer customers, the higher the price, to make up for lost business. But they are not all like that. More common is to simply hold the price steady. In which case, crisis doesn't mean lower prices, but it might mean much better selection and eagerness to please.[/QUOTE]Solid business analytics by Kozerog as always.

Selection in June of 2014 in Kiev has been amazing. Back then my new acquaintance took a 3 hours commuter train to have the first date with me. There was no agreement on price. She showed up to escort me to Theater.

After the show we simply walked over to my place and OMG was she gorgeous! My local friend called around 11 pm, in the middle of me taking her. He invited to go for a dinner. I responded with "I'm about to finish, will call you back soon" She giggled.

I still remember her expensive lingerie and impeccable curves. 20 years old. When she was leaving, I asked how much, she exclaimed "2000!" and blushed. I already had exactly 2000 UAH in the back pocket of my jeans, and handed it over. She expressed regrets about the request, tried to refuse taking it, I gave her another long DFK, and calmed down, she left with 2000.

We are still in touch. She is the best. 2000 UAH in 2014 was about 170 USD. For 6 hours with educated young beauty.

Yes, selection was great. Out of 6 girls that I had in 36 hours - 3 were gorgeous, and all 6 were "eager to please". I felt very safe in Kiev during that visit.

[QUOTE=Desin;2663025]Yes, the (ages old) logic of supply and demand proved to be correct: as other persons in this forum stated last summer, the prices had suddenly gone up because of the flood of Arabs. This brought down the availability of 120 dollar (non-salon) girls, which were supposed to be on relatively good supply based on previous information from both the forum and personal communication with girls before the summer season. This leads to the conclusion that certain changes in the supply and demand rate can and most likely will affect prices in such a way that one has to pay more. Since the news of the changed situation came only weeks before the trip, it was too late to change plans. This is why it's smart to take the whole situation in consideration, when planning a trip.[/QUOTE]Yep, prices went up, not down. Too many words, Desin.

[QUOTE]By the way, you didn't offer any contradicting examples about "learning about history", in regards that the prices would go up if the demand goes down. I'm willing to read such examples with interest, if you have them.[/QUOTE]And I am not your administrative secretary. Go ahead, read back few years, or simply believe what Kozerog said.

I am not here to prove anything. I am posting to the pleasure of those who wants to read. Otherwise, please do ignore.

[QUOTE]Finding a girl I really want to meet just for sex is a time consuming process, and even if the supply is good (like in the case of 250-300 dollar girls, where one can just pick whomever he wants) it's a rather slim chance to find a keeper. A girl whom I prefer and with whom sex is always good. I've met three of these. That's like one out of ten.[/QUOTE]1 out of 10 was my ratio too. Not bad at all.

[QUOTE]Personally, I have yet to make a decision of whether to travel to Kiev if this situation is calmed down in the next month. If all is normalized, then Kiev goes up in terms of appeal. Supply and demand might be on a good spot.[/QUOTE]One may fail even when all the meticulous calculations are correct. Kiev is rather stochastic, random. Wide spectrum of potential opportunities. I am simply not dissuaded by the low quality encounters along the way, and am field trained to recognize most of those early enough. But I dismiss them in person, not over their pictures in smartphone. And the longer I was in Kiev, the more true gems I found.

[QUOTE=Jojosun;2662845]On the ground in Kiev and they are the ones who know the situation more than anyone else and they are not in a Rush to Leave.

[URL]https://www.timesofisrael.com/with-empty-seats-on-flights-out-of-ukraine-israelis-evidently-in-no-rush-to-leave/[/URL]

'sources in the aviation industry confirmed to the Kan public broadcaster that there are hardly any Israelis leaving Ukraine, with low occupancy on each flight out to Israel.'[/QUOTE]They know their govt will come get them if there is a problem.

I would like to warn you about the fake escorts that you can find on Tinder, Mamba. Ru, Ukrainian dating websites.

These women get dressed like pros, they wear fit dress, a lot of make-up, high heels. However, they want you to pay without giving anything in exchange. Therefore, these women say they want a sugar daddy / sugar baby relationship. They confidently suggest a relationship in which you have no benefits. They just want to send them gifts. They want you to invite them to the restaurant so that they don't have to pay for food. They want you to buy them drinks or clothes. They have different techniques but all these scammers have something in common, they all operate from dating websites, dating agencies, and also camgirl websites. For several years, I have read reports of guys who say they found a pro thanks to tinder or mamba. I tried myself these two dating websites. It was a disaster. I have found psychos, scammers. I think these dating apps are overrated. I think they are men traps.

So, we are on a forum, and we talk about pros, you may not understand my point. Some Ukrainian women on Tinder claim to accept money in exchange for sex. You will be able to find out that there are scammers very quickly. They usually tell you a story implying that you must give money first. For instance, she will tell you she wants to meet you first. She wants to milk you like a cash cow. Then, Once you give the money these women vanish and you will never see them again.

Real Ukrainian pros don't chit chat. They don't select their customers. If you visit a local website with escort ads like ukrgo (in Ukrainian), you will find the real pros. You must use these websites in Ukrainian, there is no other option. On Ukrgo, the pictures can be fake but at least, these women offer a real service. A second option would the Kiev nightclub after the covid19 crisis. Those two options are the most reliable ways to find a pro in Ukraine.

I interacted with such a woman, she cheated me out of 50 euros. I told her that she can't get anything for free in this world. I told her that if she wants money from me, she must do something in return. I explained her what I wanted exactly. It worked. However, I still don't think that tinder and mamba are a good place to find semi pros. There are too many women who don't want to give anything in return.

Some local Ukrainian men, will tell you that women from villages or Donetsk, or Lviv or Kharkiv are better. Don't believe what they tell you. There are scammers everywhere.

[QUOTE=Sorbonne;2663203]Optimum time or not, you guys in Kyiv can at least f* like there is no tomorrow. Enjoy![/QUOTE]9.

Remember the Swine Flu Panic? That was more of a Hyped up problem then, than the imminent danger of a Russian Invasion. I flew into Kiev at that time and so glad I did.

[URL]https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-returns-some-troops-bases-areas-near-ukraine-report-2022-02-15/[/URL]

Stocks are up as well [URL]https://www.ft.com/content/e212c7aa-b2d6-4ce0-8df7-bea36079dc36[/URL] European stocks jump after Russia says some troops returning to base.

[QUOTE=HenriDufresne;2663407]I would like to warn you about the fake escorts that you can find on Tinder, Mamba. Ru, Ukrainian dating websites.

These women get dressed like pros, they wear fit dress, a lot of make-up, high heels. However, they want you to pay without giving anything in exchange. Therefore, these women say they want a sugar daddy / sugar baby relationship. They confidently suggest a relationship in which you have no benefits. They just want to send them gifts. They want you to invite them to the restaurant so that they don't have to pay for food. They want you to buy them drinks or clothes. They have different techniques but all these scammers have something in common, they all operate from dating websites, dating agencies, and also camgirl websites. For several years, I have read reports of guys who say they found a pro thanks to tinder or mamba. I tried myself these two dating websites. It was a disaster. I have found psychos, scammers. I think these dating apps are overrated. I think they are men traps.

So, we are on a forum, and we talk about pros, you may not understand my point. Some Ukrainian women on Tinder claim to accept money in exchange for sex. You will be able to find out that there are scammers very quickly. They usually tell you a story implying that you must give money first. For instance, she will tell you she wants to meet you first. She wants to milk you like a cash cow. Then, Once you give the money these women vanish and you will never see them again.

Real Ukrainian pros don't chit chat. They don't select their customers. If you visit a local website with escort ads like ukrgo (in Ukrainian), you will find the real pros. You must use these websites in Ukrainian, there is no other option. On Ukrgo, the pictures can be fake but at least, these women offer a real service. A second option would the Kiev nightclub after the covid19 crisis. Those two options are the most reliable ways to find a pro in Ukraine..[/QUOTE]You don't need to go in dating website to find such girl. I got a lot of contact from instagram, just with following some girls.

The best ones were:

- buy me a tank, there is a discount on worldoftank, it ends just before tonight dinner.

- it's my birthday tomorrow, I'm sure you know how to please a woman.

- I need makeup for the dinner, please order some for me today.

I let you guess my answer and the becoming of such contact.

[QUOTE=Jojosun;2663458]9.

Remember the Swine Flu Panic? That was more of a Hyped up problem then, than the imminent danger of a Russian Invasion. I flew into Kiev at that time and so glad I did.

[URL]https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-returns-some-troops-bases-areas-near-ukraine-report-2022-02-15/[/URL]

Stocks are up as well [URL]https://www.ft.com/content/e212c7aa-b2d6-4ce0-8df7-bea36079dc36[/URL] European stocks jump after Russia says some troops returning to base.[/QUOTE]I hope you are right. It was a nice day on the stock marked. Try to look at satellite foto from the company (Maxar Technologies). Than you can see a other stories. It show the Russian start to be in fighting position.

Do you really believe what Putin say?

[QUOTE=PhotoSlider;2663211]Yep, prices went up, not down. Too many words, Desin.

And I am not your administrative secretary. Go ahead, read back few years, or simply believe what Kozerog said.

I am not here to prove anything. I am posting to the pleasure of those who wants to read. Otherwise, please do ignore.[/QUOTE]I did already read this thread way back before my trip to Kiev. There was no notable mention of such an occurrence that the less there would be clients the more the girls would ask. Normally, when one makes a statement in internet forum, he or she is ready and willing to back it up with explanation. I would expect the same from you. A method of "oh, I this is how it is, but I'm not going to tell you what I base my claim" is just poor argumentation and hints of made-up claims just for the sake of having an oppositional argument. I can believe you and Kozerog can have met such a girls, but to depict this as a foreseeable trend to come in the case of crisis is, without further details and clarification, an easily dismissible claim.

If there will not be economic troubles in Kiev after Russian politics, then the total amount of girls would not be expectable to rise. If the tourists are "minority" source of income for Kiev's girls, then the lack of them would indeed more likely to have no effect on the prices. Let's hope the people on the ground will contribute to this subject and keep us informed of their view of the forthcoming trends.

About selecting the girls, there is a huge amount of information about one's character to be read on photos, voice and output of words / text. This helps to save a lot of time and money, when one knows what he is looking for and what not. I've come to the point that if I get a certain feeling from one's facial features (including aesthetics but certainly not limited to it, focusing more on the matter of personality that is discernible in one's face) I simply stop the procedure at that point. This issue could also be named the only matter that could persuade me to pay more than I would normally pay. There was a Russian girl in Mamba that was so interesting in her looks and way to move her body (her feminine sexuality in the sense of seduction) that I was starting to plan my trip there almost only because of her. But then she got botox lips. I just can't stand them.

Design your reports are great, as are most of the new guys are also amazing. They give a very accurate description of Ukraine has become.

1. A lot of work.

2. Too many scams.

3. Zero night life.

4. Sex tourist every where.

5. Not to mention the people fleeing the country.

6. There are others.

As others have said the only way to be successful in.

Kiev is the ground game. This take significant time and resources. Even then you will probably end up with a 5 or 6. No, the village is not the answer.

There no way The Distinguished Gentleman does not know about these issues, he is in complete denial about most of these drawbacks. He just says these issues do not apply to him or he just omit them from his reports.

I could careless, the problem guys read these fabrication and believe them. Keep up the great reports.

[QUOTE=Fred54;2663583]You don't need to go in dating website to find such girl. I got a lot of contact from instagram, just with following some girls.

The best ones were:

- buy me a tank, there is a discount on worldoftank, it ends just before tonight dinner.

- it's my birthday tomorrow, I'm sure you know how to please a woman.

- I need makeup for the dinner, please order some for me today.

I let you guess my answer and the becoming of such contact.[/QUOTE]You nailed it, Fred!

I take it another step up. When the girl becomes a candidate as a regular, instead of giving her money, that she would blow away on stupid shit, I take her to the shoe store, and watch what she wants to buy. I suggest practical long term choices, good quality and classy, that she would wear every day at the University (and remember who bought it for her). I still take her to my affordable and reliable beauty salon before we go to theater, but I pay cash to the master myself. And it's fun to observe how the master doesn't react to ever changing kaleidoscope of young beauties.

There was a funny occasion in the very beginning, where I did my own simple haircut and made a reservation for my regular. Showed her avatar in Viber to the master, and she replied with:

- This is your daughter? She looks very much like you.

Anyway, when I take the candidate to the shoe store, I watch what she chooses. The best one allowed me to buy her only one pair of shoes for her diploma presentation at the University. She said: "One pair is enough. You work so hard earning the money, no reason to spend it absent-mindlessly". That's when I understood that for the next few days I'll be monogamous. We spent weeks together without talking about money, and my expenses on her were reasonable.

Another GIA girl arrived on the first date without any makeup. She was young and naturally beautiful, but didn't know I'll extend beyond the initial hour, and then take her to theater. She asked to buy some cosmetics nearby, and paid herself. I didn't object. It was minimal, and I don't play those stupid macho alpha male games.

So, yes, Fred is absolutely correct, it is easy to qualify the candidates by vetting them while shopping. Greedy ones get the exit door.

[QUOTE=Desin;2663659]I would expect the same from you.[/QUOTE]Desin, my services are not complementary, and the billing rate is quite high.

There was a discussion five years ago or so about high level pro girls charging across the globe about the same as an average lawyer.

I am not a lawyer. I expect at least twice as much. Feel free to ignore my posts.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2663686]
I could careless, the problem guys read these fabrication and believe them. Keep up the great reports.[/QUOTE]Yeah well, one has to learn by mistake. At least once. Kiev is a nice holiday destination if one likes eye candy on a warm summer day. The rest is questionably.

The one part of opportunity I didn't pursue is hanging out in the main street looking for girls at late hours. The last night I took a walk there and sat down for like 10 minutes. A pretty girl came to sit to the bench next to me, giving me this strange look: it was like "is there anything I can do for you?" She had her headphones on, so I hesitated to start to speak English to her. There were couple of occasions like this on day time as well, so it could have been that my clothes gave me up for an European tourist.

But as tempting it is to travel to Kiev and see if this could be fruitful, it's still too risky choice considering all the expenses the trip will take. If fellow travelers visit the city, I would like to hear how it goes if you try this out. One person already told about his success in this. Girls are of course out there on the benches to be spotted by their own aged peers as well, so it would seem to require the girl to make it all clear that she is approachable.

[QUOTE=PhotoSlider;2664024]Desin, my services are not complementary, and the billing rate is quite high.

There was a discussion five years ago or so about high level pro girls charging across the globe about the same as an average lawyer.

I am not a lawyer. I expect at least twice as much. Feel free to ignore my posts.[/QUOTE]I actually thought you were speaking from experience.

Thank you for clarifying this was not the case.

According to Ria have Ukrainian forces shot at the Russian militants in eastern Ukraine with mortar shells this night. Ukraine denies. This could be the " false flag ". Also the White House say the the Russian have sent 7000 more troops to the border the latest days.

[QUOTE=Fred54;2663583]You don't need to go in dating website to find such girl. I got a lot of contact from instagram, just with following some girls.

The best ones were:

- buy me a tank, there is a discount on worldoftank, it ends just before tonight dinner..[/QUOTE]My answer would be, let's try it before I buy you one.

[URL]https://stayinkiev.com/tank-driving[/URL]

[QUOTE=Nero6;2664324]". Also the White House say the the Russian have sent 7000 more troops to the border the latest days.[/QUOTE]Well The WH Should have released a schedule of the Upcoming Invasions of Ukraine to enable Maria and others to Plan their Vacations accordingly. [URL]https://tass.com/world/1404247[/URL].

[QUOTE=Jojosun;2664455]Well The WH Should have released a schedule of the Upcoming Invasions of Ukraine to enable Maria and others to Plan their Vacations accordingly. [URL]https://tass.com/world/1404247[/URL].[/QUOTE]How did it go Dow today. And why to you think it fall so much?

[QUOTE=Nero6;2664587]How did it go Dow today. And why to you think it fall so much?[/QUOTE]Today Friday 18 Feb gone Up. [URL]https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/stock-market-today-us-futures-dow-jones-russia-ukraine-crisis-2022-2[/URL].

LOL, The stock market is like a guy with IBS, All it takes is one Fart to ruin the Day.

[QUOTE=Jojosun;2664791]Today Friday 18 Feb gone Up. [URL]https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/stock-market-today-us-futures-dow-jones-russia-ukraine-crisis-2022-2[/URL].

LOL, The stock market is like a guy with IBS, All it takes is one Fart to ruin the Day.[/QUOTE]Yes the stock marked is like crazy bitches. There have just been a big explosion in centrum of Donetsk.

[QUOTE=Nero6;2664897]Yes the stock marked is like crazy bitches. There have just been a big explosion in centrum of Donetsk.[/QUOTE]Putin's cook's mercenaries were flought there earlier. Shit is getting real.

[QUOTE=Desin;2665179]Putin's cook's mercenaries were flought there earlier. Shit is getting real.[/QUOTE]The situation is getting really bad in eastern Ukraine at this moment (my friend told me he live in Kharkiv). Also the Russian military will continue with there exercise in Belarus (it should had finish today). My friend in Kiev say there are not many tourist in Kiev now. And that many of the local rich people have left Ukraine and many from middle class have gone to the countryside or to Lviv.

Visited the strip club which is getting worse and worse. A good location notwithstanding. There are many girls, but no ladies worth mentioning.

All the girls are bored and are mechanically rocking on stage. Previously, there were a few who could dance.

And almost no one seems to bother giving private dances. What are they really bothering about?

I bought 2 dancers in advance yesterday and we went into the room. The first thing she says is that she is in a bad mood.

Yes really a good start!

The first two songs she did were doing gymnastic exercises on the floor. I signaled that she had to get within reach, but she arrogantly ignored it.

I got up and said this did not work for me. If I could not touch the goods, it could be the same.

She tried to hold me back, but I had been patient for a long time and got into a bad mood myself. This tends to be contagious.

I chatted with the two clowns of administrators. One smarter than the other. I said that since the start of the club I had had hundreds of private dancers, never complained, but that it was a big disappointment to pay 1000 Grivna and just sit on the couch watching uninspired movements without any contact. I explained that I was very dissatisfied. I have vip card and free admission and was expecting some support. Maybe a couple for free consider or a drink or two as compensation.

I received no other response than that the two looked at me stupidly. One of them came with the back of the Crazy menu, where it was written in small print that you had to agree the menu with the dancer in advance. Hello, I've never heard of that before. So without agreeing with the dancer, you can risk not getting anything other than hearing about how much the dancer has a headache?

I have never before needed to agree in advance what a private dance should contain. That should be obvious. In Ukraine, there has never been anything but close contact in all clubs' private rooms. What the hell is going on? Is there no one who cares about customer satisfaction? Who is the real boss of this club?

I'm not stingy, so they want me to spend my money elsewhere?

[QUOTE=James006;2666146]Visited the strip club which is getting worse and worse. A good location notwithstanding. There are many girls, but no ladies worth mentioning.[/QUOTE]Thanks for your informative report.

When did you visit Harem?

[QUOTE=James006;2666146]Visited the strip club which is getting worse and worse. A good location notwithstanding. There are many girls, but no ladies worth mentioning.

All the girls are bored and are mechanically rocking on stage. Previously, there were a few who could dance.

And almost no one seems to bother giving private dances. What are they really bothering about?

I bought 2 dancers in advance yesterday and we went into the room. The first thing she says is that she is in a bad mood.

Yes really a good start!

The first two songs she did were doing gymnastic exercises on the floor. I signaled that she had to get within reach, but she arrogantly ignored it.

I got up and said this did not work for me. If I could not touch the goods, it could be the same.

She tried to hold me back, but I had been patient for a long time and got into a bad mood myself. This tends to be contagious.[/QUOTE]You got to go to where the money is at and that is paradise cabaret. Sorry, it is the only strip club in Kiev that is "worth" it. The girls are good looking, fake tattas, but you won't hear them complain the private dance.

[QUOTE=James006;2666146]Visited the strip club which...[/QUOTE]So sad you had this bad experience, same happened to me in princess stripclub, 2 times in December.

Kiev was a stripclub paradise before covid, it seems everything is getting worse now, and I don't known why.

[QUOTE=James006;2666146]What the hell is going on? Is there no one who cares about customer satisfaction?[/QUOTE]James, please forgive me for the suggestion, but imagine for a moment that you are one of those girls. Money is scarce. The mood is gloomy. Maybe overnight bombs will fall.

Would you be enthusiastic?

At the same time if the customer walks in looking for an adventure, why reject his payment? The whole purpose of Arena City always been vacuum cleaning the pockets of visitors.

IMO this is not the best time to attend Kiev strip clubs at the moment. On the other hand, great opportunity for consolation of those beauties that require a civilized calming down. Would go a long way when the dust settles down.

[QUOTE=Jojosun;2663458]9.

Remember the Swine Flu Panic? That was more of a Hyped up problem then, than the imminent danger of a Russian Invasion. I flew into Kiev at that time and so glad I did.

[URL]https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-returns-some-troops-bases-areas-near-ukraine-report-2022-02-15/[/URL]

Stocks are up as well [URL]https://www.ft.com/content/e212c7aa-b2d6-4ce0-8df7-bea36079dc36[/URL] European stocks jump after Russia says some troops returning to base.[/QUOTE]What's your thoughts now? Please let us know the next move, your bating avg only can get better! ! Still no danger? All hype?

[QUOTE=Jojosun;2662845]On the ground in Kiev and they are the ones who know the situation more than anyone else and they are not in a Rush to Leave.

[URL]https://www.timesofisrael.com/with-empty-seats-on-flights-out-of-ukraine-israelis-evidently-in-no-rush-to-leave/[/URL]

'sources in the aviation industry confirmed to the Kan public broadcaster that there are hardly any Israelis leaving Ukraine, with low occupancy on each flight out to Israel.'[/QUOTE]Hmmm starting to be a rush or everyone still calm? Optimum time to come get cheap pussy?

Well, I was wrong: [URL]http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?816-Kiev&p=2663199&viewfull=1[/URL]#post2663199. (Typo, in that post BTW. I meant "if Putin backed off on attack two weeks ago he would look weak, whereas backing off after so many USA warnings makes USA look foolish, like boy who cried wolf too often".) Maybe Putin still worried about looking weak. Now I expect Russians will surround big cities without occupying them, shut down economy, then order snap elections, with warning that siege will only be lifted if new government acceptable to Putin and this new government takes immediate steps to bar Ukraine from NATO and de-militiarize and comply with other Russian demands. Then Russia can withdraw from Ukraine and mend relations with Europe. Definitely more risky and expensive strategy than simply destroying Ukraine economy without invading. Big winner here is China.

Anyway, talked to my regular. She says all is calm near her, but news reports are mixed and confusing. Hopefully, war will be over by summer so I can visit. Otherwise, I might go to Moldova and invite her to visit me there.

[blue][Deleted by Admin][/blue]

[b][u]EDITOR'S NOTE[/u]:[/b] [blue]This report was deleted because it contributed nothing of value and in fact constituted a complete waste of bandwidth.

The purpose of this Forum is to provide for the exchange if information between men on the subject of finding women for sex. Let's stick to the subject.[/blue]

Yeah. News about the conspiracy for a coup were in the air months ago, so here we go. No doubt they (Russia) want this over as fast as possible. But when will the West and airlines think it's over?

Hello all,

We saw the news about the war and we thought it would be the perfect time to find some non-pros. We arrived in Ukraine, last week. We are men in our 60's, few of us have served in the military however none of us expected the situation to be as it is now.

Tanks have started moving into Kyiv, just yesterday Martial law was declared and our the ex military man on our team says things are about to get worse. We are not young men, we are over 60 and came here to see if we could find non-pros who were looking for stability in such unstable times.

In regards to women, they are available. Talking to a few and one even moved in with me eventhough I have not been here long. However she is very scared about the current situation, I am scared too. I do my best to hide it but the reading news and hearing about bombings is causing my ulcers to trigger. I hope I do not die in this country.

They Ukraine government has called for all people to join the resistance efforts against the Russians. In our group we are all over the age of 60, there are 2 military veterans. However we did not come to defend Ukraine and lose our lives but to find non-pros.

[QUOTE=Jojosun;2663458]9.

Remember the Swine Flu Panic? That was more of a Hyped up problem then, than the imminent danger of a Russian Invasion. I flew into Kiev at that time and so glad I did.

[URL]https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-returns-some-troops-bases-areas-near-ukraine-report-2022-02-15/[/URL]

Stocks are up as well [URL]https://www.ft.com/content/e212c7aa-b2d6-4ce0-8df7-bea36079dc36[/URL] European stocks jump after Russia says some troops returning to base.[/QUOTE]All I can say it's in the Title. "A week is a long time in Politics".

Russian army encircling Kiev and are already in Obolon.

I am still here in Kiev and going nowhere. The situation is very tense, chaotic and completely uncertain. Only food stores and pharmacies are open, at least for now. Everything else is closed, as are offices. No above-ground transport is working but the metro is, very few cars about except to possibly leave the city for places in the west of Ukraine. However, the metro stations are also being used as bomb shelters except those which are located above ground, primarily on the Left Bank. A real nightmare. No thoughts about the hobby now, only that of getting through this alive and well.

As for some irony, the Penthouse Strip Club on Velyka Vasylkivska is also an official bomb shelter!

[QUOTE=UkeBoy;2667612]I am still here in Kiev and going nowhere. The situation is very tense, chaotic and completely uncertain. Only food stores and pharmacies are open, at least for now. Everything else is closed, as are offices. No above-ground transport is working but the metro is, very few cars about except to possibly leave the city for places in the west of Ukraine. However, the metro stations are also being used as bomb shelters except those which are located above ground, primarily on the Left Bank. A real nightmare. No thoughts about the hobby now, only that of getting through this alive and well.

As for some irony, the Penthouse Strip Club on Velyka Vasylkivska is also an official bomb shelter![/QUOTE]Uke Boy, I really Salute you for your determination and courage and also for taking the time to post a live report from a warzone.

All the best.

Uke Boy, I really Salute you for your determination and courage and also for taking the time to post a live report from a warzone.

All the best.

I absolutely second that, I hope everyone stays safe.

[QUOTE=Jojosun;2663458]Stocks are up as well [URL]https://www.ft.com/content/e212c7aa-b2d6-4ce0-8df7-bea36079dc36[/URL] European stocks jump after Russia says some troops returning to base.[/QUOTE]Even with The Russian Army changing direction, its not all Doom&Gloom for many Investors and Potential mongers heading to Kiev in late Spring, Summer.

"European markets closed sharply higher today with shares in London leading the region. The FTSE 100 is up 3. 86% while Germany's DAX is up 3. 67% and France's CAC 40 is up 3. 55% ". [URL]https://money.cnn.com/data/world_markets/europe/[/URL].

Been to Kiev about 8-10 years many times, and stayed at an Apartment next to Maidan, I watch it in the past ours through live Camera, I salute you man, stay safe and fight for your country. Our thoughts are with all Ukrainian people.

[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIPNVm6lNfM[/URL]

[QUOTE=HulaHoops;2667580]They Ukraine government has called for all people to join the resistance efforts against the Russians. In our group we are all over the age of 60, there are 2 military veterans. However we did not come to defend Ukraine and lose our lives but to find non-pros.[/QUOTE]In the midst of every crisis, lies great opportunity. Einstein said.

But to go there during a cisis is brave or idiotic. Whereas both comes close.

Just stay in your shelter. I assume (but its a very private assumption) the Russkies will not flatten Kiev. They only want to get hold of the system -and then control their puppet there. Similar to Belarus.

Once its over. Then you will have ample opportunities. Good luck! Also to Uke boy.

[QUOTE=Jojosun;2655929]It really depends on who you want to ask?

[URL]https://ua.usembassy.gov/ukraine-level-4-do-not-travel-2/[/URL]

Across the pond [URL]https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10436705/Americans-safer-Kyiv-LA-source-close-Zelensky-slams-Biden-evacuating-Ukraine.html[/URL].[/QUOTE]Less than 2 weeks ago on 12 Feb When President Zelensky spoke and I Listened. [URL]https://news.yahoo.com/warnings-russian-invasion-stoking-panic-174131863.html[/URL].

And demands to see firm proof of a planned invasion.

[QUOTE=HulaHoops;2667580]They Ukraine government has called for all people .[/QUOTE]HulaHoops, I find your situation very interesting, and want to ask some questions.

1) how long did you originally plan to stay in Ukraine?

2) any idea how you will get home now?

3) what arrangement did you come to with the woman that moved in with you? Where did you meet her?

Anyway please tell us more about your situation. And stay strong bro. Hopefully you are getting some sex even in this dire situation.

[QUOTE=UkeBoy;2667612]I am still here in Kiev and going nowhere. The situation is very tense, chaotic and completely uncertain. Only food stores and pharmacies are open, at least for now. Everything else is closed, as are offices. No above-ground transport is working but the metro is, very few cars about except to possibly leave the city for places in the west of Ukraine. However, the metro stations are also being used as bomb shelters except those which are located above ground, primarily on the Left Bank. A real nightmare. No thoughts about the hobby now, only that of getting through this alive and well.

As for some irony, the Penthouse Strip Club on Velyka Vasylkivska is also an official bomb shelter![/QUOTE]Highly valuable source, any further reporting extremely appreciated.

To all the men thinking of coming to Ukraine for easy pussy, my answer quickly: Not worth it whatsoever. If I had known the situation was like this, I would honestly have never come. People are actually dying here, in Kiev because of Russian shelling. There is an actual threat to life. Coming here for pussy, is not worth it.

Summary:

We came as a group of about 5 of us. We are all over 60 and some in the group have actual military experience. We thought Putin was just posturing and that there was no chance in hell, he would actually send troops / tanks in.

We were completely wrong. We are in Kiev right now and they are tanks. Kiev and Kharkov are both surrounded by Russian soldiers and are under heavy shelling.

People on this board / the average newsreader doesn't understand how bad the situation is right now. For once, I would say the American media is downplaying how bad the situation in Kiev is. Electricity is sporadic. Internet is sporadic. Right now I am posting through a VPN. Getting access to food is becoming harder and harder. There is no one outside in the streets. Shops are closed, of course the shops are closed. All the shop owners are in the bomb shelter. Everyone is either in the bomb shelter or cowering at home. The streets are empty apart from soldiers. A few days ago, Russian soldiers wearing Ukrainian clothes were found and executed. They are plenty more like that. I am sure you have seen the video of a Russian tank running over a man who is in a car. That is just the tip of the iceberg, there are more atrocities being committed that are not recorded. Everyone here is fearful, the men and the women are really scared. Sex is just not on their mind.

Let me put this in a way that people on this board will understand, well the Americans at least.

The 3 most populated states in the US are California, Texas and Florida. Imagine you were residing in one of those states and the army of an opposing country had surrounded all 3 of those states. Not just an army as well, an army that you know is bigger / stronger than the army of your country. Also imagine, that you were under shelling, missile fire and most of your friends / families were in bomb shelters. That is the current situation in Ukraine! The 3 most populated cities are surrounded by the Russian army and are under shelling. Would sex be on your mind? Do you think the women in these cities would be up for meeting a foreigner in his 50's /60's for sex? Of course not. That's the fact I have now realized. If Putin didn't invade, I would be here enjoying cheap (or even free) sex with beautiful women and there would be no competition.

Further expanding on the sex situation. There is no sex to be had here, I can't go to a bomb shelter. As I would definitely not be having any sex in a bomb shelter. The women here are just too stressed out. The woman I have met, is actually an old acquaintance of a friend of mine. She is in her 50's, not a beauty in the least to be honest. However in times like these, one can't be choosy. I did not come here to sleep with an overweight 50 year old Ukrainian woman, I could have slept with a woman in her 50's back at home and there would be no threat to my life. The young women are not interested, they are scared and focused on survival. To be honest, I don't blame them. Plus also something that is new that I have not noticed before. There is a deep distrust / hate of foreigners. We are all white, from western countries and before we were welcomed in Ukraine. Now, they are looking at us with disdain and wondering what we are doing here. As a group we have almost had numerous fights with Ukrainian men, questioning our motives and accusing us of being foreign spies. They also blame / hate us for our countries not intervening to stop Putin. I have never been in a country where people are racist to white foreigners. This attitude never existed before the war but it is becoming common now.

I would say right now because of:

Actual and high threat to life from Russian army and shelling.

Shops are not open. Electricity and Internet are becoming worse each and every day.

Women here are stressed / scared and focused on survival not sex.

People here have become deeply distrustful, aggressive and hateful at anyone remotely foreign. They blame us. They are angry that are countries are not intervening to stop Putin. We are all white, yet we have had numerous arguments and even almost fights with Ukrainian men and women who question what we are doing in the country. They blame us for our countries not intervening. Of course, this makes sex even harder for foreigners.

These factors above just do not make Ukraine a viable option for mongering any more. Even free sex if you are a white foreigner. Once Putin and his army goes, then maybe it will be better but as of now, I will do my best to survive and leave this country immediately. If Putin did not invade, we would be living like kings here but that is not the case.

Whoever's on the ground, consider yourself to be lucky. How many times do you get to experience such a situation? It's an experience of a lifetime!

On top of that, you get to f* like there's no tomorrow. In early summer 2020 during the height of the pandemic I headed out to Kyiv and did exactly that! It was great. You won't regret!

[QUOTE=UkeBoy;2667612]I am still here in Kiev and going nowhere. The situation is very tense, chaotic and completely uncertain. Only food stores and pharmacies are open, at least for now. Everything else is closed, as are offices. No above-ground transport is working but the metro is, very few cars about except to possibly leave the city for places in the west of Ukraine. However, the metro stations are also being used as bomb shelters except those which are located above ground, primarily on the Left Bank. A real nightmare. No thoughts about the hobby now, only that of getting through this alive and well.

As for some irony, the Penthouse Strip Club on Velyka Vasylkivska is also an official bomb shelter![/QUOTE]Thanks for your report Uke Boy. Updates much appreciated as well. Stay safe

[QUOTE=HulaHoops;2667577]Hello all,

We saw the news about the war and we thought it would be the perfect time to find some non-pros. We arrived in Ukraine, last week. We are men in our 60's, few of us have served in the military however none of us expected the situation to be as it is now.

Tanks have started moving into Kyiv, just yesterday Martial law was declared and our the ex military man on our team says things are about to get worse. We are not young men, we are over 60 and came here to see if we could find non-pros who were looking for stability in such unstable times.

In regards to women, they are available. Talking to a few and one even moved in with me eventhough I have not been here long. However she is very scared about the current situation, I am scared too. I do my best to hide it but the reading news and hearing about bombings is causing my ulcers to trigger. I hope I do not die in this country.[/QUOTE]I've heard of bargain hunting but you guys have taken it to another level. After this adventure you might want to check out Venezuela for some even better deals.

[QUOTE=HulaHoops;2667580]They Ukraine government has called for all people to join the resistance efforts against the Russians. In our group we are all over the age of 60, there are 2 military veterans. However we did not come to defend Ukraine and lose our lives but to find non-pros.[/QUOTE]For me there's no pussy or bargain pricing for the same worth such risks to life and limb.

[QUOTE=LuckyNuts;2667921]Thanks for your report Uke Boy. Updates much appreciated as well. Stay safe

I've heard of bargain hunting but you guys have taken it to another level. After this adventure you might want to check out Venezuela for some even better deals.[/QUOTE]3 to 5 dollars, if that much.

[QUOTE=Amadeuss;2667786]In the midst of every crisis, lies great opportunity. Einstein said.

But to go there during a cisis is brave or idiotic. Whereas both comes close.

Just stay in your shelter. I assume (but its a very private assumption) the Russkies will not flatten Kiev.[/QUOTE]It's hilarious mentioning Einstein in the same breath as going into a war zone for the purpose of hunting for cheap pussy. No the Russians won't "flatten Kiev" but they are tearing it up good, and will continue to do so until they achieve their aims.

[QUOTE=Paulie97;2667953]It's hilarious mentioning Einstein in the same breath as going into a war zone for the purpose of hunting for cheap pussy. No the Russians won't "flatten Kiev" but they are tearing it up good, and will continue to do so until they achieve their aims.[/QUOTE]I just saw on the news that a flat (apartment) was hit with a missile. So yes, they're tearing up Kyiv good. There were people in there too. They should have been out of there in a bomb shelter or something. The one thing I think Zelensky totally did wrong in this was not prepare the people for war. He refused to act in accordance with American intelligence reports on the basis of not wanting to panic people. Better to deal with reality and prepare as best you can.

Yes Russians are attacking civilian infrastructures, in spite of official claims. Anyone who wants to trust them with their lives in order to hunt for cheap pussy, go ahead.

[URL]https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/25/europe/ukraine-russia-videos-civilians-intl-cmd/index.html[/URL]

[QUOTE=Sorbonne;2667910]Whoever's on the ground, consider yourself to be lucky. How many times do you get to experience such a situation? It's an experience of a lifetime!

On top of that, you get to f* like there's no tomorrow. In early summer 2020 during the height of the pandemic I headed out to Kyiv and did exactly that! It was great. You won't regret![/QUOTE]In this post my sarcasm might have gone a little too far. It's a matter of life and death. My apology.

At this point I'm not sure if it's safer to stay in Kyiv or leave. All the best for those who are still there.

[QUOTE=TheCane;2667987]The one thing I think Zelensky totally did wrong in this was not prepare the people for war. He refused to act in accordance with American intelligence reports on the basis of not wanting to panic people. Better to deal with reality and prepare as best you can.[/QUOTE]Until Russia made the foolish decision to attack, Russia was winning (by chasing off investors and destroying Ukraine's economy) and USA was losing (by making predictions that failed to come true), which is why no one expected an invasion. Invasion will be disaster for Russia. China wins because a bankrupt Russia will be forced to supply China with unlimited raw materials. USA also big loser, because uniting Russia and China not good for USA. As for Ukraine, they will probably fight their way free of Russia, but the price will be every high. Ukraine will be even more bankrupted than Russia, though maybe the west will bail them out.

[Edit] Actually, USA might win if there is a coup in Russia, due to failure of the invasion, and then Russia gets a true democracy. Belarus will follow, and then the west could bail out Russia to prevent it from falling into China's hands. Invasion definitely not going well for Russians. Combination of low morale, undertrained conscripts, logistics issues (lack of fuel, ammunition, spare parts), poor air-ground coordination making ground vehicles vulnerable to anti-tank weapons, etc. Hopefully, they won't get frustrated and start saturation bombing Kyiv.

[QUOTE=Kozerog;2668156]Until Russia made the foolish decision to attack, Russia was winning (by chasing off investors and destroying Ukraine's economy) and USA was losing (by making predictions that failed to come true), which is why no one expected an invasion. Invasion will be disaster for Russia. China wins because a bankrupt Russia will be forced to supply China with unlimited raw materials. USA also big loser, because uniting Russia and China not good for USA. As for Ukraine, they will probably fight their way free of Russia, but the price will be every high. Ukraine will be even more bankrupted than Russia, though maybe the west will bail them out.

Actually, USA might win if there is a coup in Russia, due to failure of the invasion, and then Russia gets a true democracy. Belarus will follow, and then the west could bail out Russia to prevent it from falling into China's hands. Invasion definitely not going well for Russians. Combination of low morale, undertrained conscripts, logistics issues (lack of fuel, ammunition, spare parts), poor air-ground coordination making ground vehicles vulnerable to anti-tank weapons, etc. Hopefully, they won't get frustrated and start saturation bombing Kyiv.[/QUOTE]Anyway you cut it, the world is going to suffer a lot of pain over this. Russia loses no matter what. Putin has overplayed his hand and proven himself to be just another two-bit Ruskie tyrant of a dictator. I hope your second script is the one that prevails.

[QUOTE=Kozerog;2668156]Until Russia made the foolish decision to attack, Russia was winning (by chasing off investors and destroying Ukraine's economy) and USA was losing (by making predictions that failed to come true), which is why no one expected an invasion.[/QUOTE]Deploying troops to the border cost a lot of money. Putin had to either invade or back down.

But yes, generally Russia was already "winning" when it was chasing off investors, businesses, tourists, and diplomats, and making America look silly with invasion predictions.

The madman just couldn't accept the fact that Ukraine refused to be a Moscow puppet like Belarus, so he invaded.

[QUOTE=HulaHoops;2667863]To all the men thinking of coming to Ukraine for easy pussy, my answer quickly: Not worth it whatsoever. If I had known the situation was like this, I would honestly have never come. People are actually dying here, in Kiev because of Russian shelling. There is an actual threat to life. Coming here for pussy, is not worth it.

Summary:

We came as a group of about 5 of us. We are all over 60 and some in the group have actual military experience. We thought Putin was just posturing and that there was no chance in hell, he would actually send troops / tanks in.

We were completely wrong. We are in Kiev right now and they are tanks. Kiev and Kharkov are both surrounded by Russian soldiers and are under heavy shelling.

People on this board / the average newsreader doesn't understand how bad the situation is right now. For once, I would say the American media is downplaying how bad the situation in Kiev is. Electricity is sporadic. Internet is sporadic. Right now I am posting through a VPN. Getting access to food is becoming harder and harder. There is no one outside in the streets. Shops are closed, of course the shops are closed. All the shop owners are in the bomb shelter. Everyone is either in the bomb shelter or cowering at home. The streets are empty apart from soldiers. A few days ago, Russian soldiers wearing Ukrainian clothes were found and executed. They are plenty more like that. I am sure you have seen the video of a Russian tank running over a man who is in a car. That is just the tip of the iceberg, there are more atrocities being committed that are not recorded. Everyone here is fearful, the men and the women are really scared..[/QUOTE]We have spent a large amount of last evening fighting other survivors who are here in Kyiv.

The anti-foreigner hate has increased and blossomed over. A member of our group was attacked by a group of Ukrainian men who stay with us, they seem to blame us for our western countries not intervening.

What a terrible decision I made to come here.

[QUOTE=HulaHoops;2668323]We have spent a large amount of last evening fighting other survivors who are here in Kyiv.

The anti-foreigner hate has increased and blossomed over. A member of our group was attacked by a group of Ukrainian men who stay with us, they seem to blame us for our western countries not intervening.

What a terrible decision I made to come here.[/QUOTE]I'm finding it hard to summon up much sympathy for you. If I read your earlier posts correctly, you flew into a country which was under significant threat of military attack purely in order to chase pussy. There really aren't the words to express how solipsistic that is.

I hope you get your asses thoroughly kicked, and then kicked out. Though I do hope you survive.

[QUOTE=HulaHoops;2668323]We have spent a large amount of last evening fighting other survivors who are here in Kyiv.

The anti-foreigner hate has increased and blossomed over. A member of our group was attacked by a group of Ukrainian men who stay with us, they seem to blame us for our western countries not intervening.

What a terrible decision I made to come here.[/QUOTE]Your best bet is for you and your group to pool together your financial resources, find some local Ukrainians that you can trust, and pay them for protection. Be careful that you don't end up with some local thugs who will just want to exploit you.

To be honest, I do not know how much of a weight people would put on foreign money in this type of situation, but people will always need to rebuild when this is all over.

Try to find a sympathetic family; most of the men there will likely have no time to watch over you (they may see it as "I don't have time to babysit you". They will be looking out for themselves and their own families who stayed behind. Seek out Ukrainians who speak English, as they will likely have more experience dealing with Westerners.

Make yourself useful to the group shy of picking up arms. Maybe offer to go out and get meds for the very young or the elderly so that the women do not have to go out into the streets (but you should have a trustworthy local with you at all times to fend off any local Ukrainians who may cause you problems as a foreigner). Offer to help clean up in the area around you. You do not want to be seen as a burden, especially if food and water become scarce. You will be expected to carry your own weight if you want to eat.

This obviously goes without saying: but if a group does decide to take you in, the last thing you want to do is act like pussy-hounds and try to score with any of the females in the group. This would likely get you killed by the locals. In fact, pussy should be the last thing on your minds until you have safely gotten out of the country. It is imperative that you make sure everyone in your group that you traveled there with is onboard with this and sticks with this game plan for your safety. Come up with a plausible story as to why you are in their country to begin with (learn more about the culture, looking for a place to retire and save money, etc.). Anything to avoid the appearance of looking like sex tourist.

And obviously: try to link up with other western foreigners there and ask them what the game plan is to get the hell out of there. Strength in numbers. You will like find a large group of them at train stations or hotels that cater to foreigners.

Stay safe.

I echo this, to drop into a warzone for pussy is total madness. I hope you survive and can get home, but the vitriol directed towards you is deserved. You're using resources the people of UA need for themselves. You'll go back to a comfy lifestyle, while those there, will have to pick up the pieces, if they even survive the war.

[QUOTE=JamesXBrown;2668495]I'm finding it hard to summon up much sympathy for you. If I read your earlier posts correctly, you flew into a country which was under significant threat of military attack purely in order to chase pussy. There really aren't the words to express how solipsistic that is.

I hope you get your asses thoroughly kicked, and then kicked out. Though I do hope you survive.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=HulaHoops;2668323]
What a terrible decision I made to come here.[/QUOTE]Ok bro you made a mistake, we all do at some time in our lives.

What Country is home for you?

Are you staying in a hotel in Kiev or apartment. Please tell us more about your situation.

BTW im sure these guys aren't the only tourists who are caught in Ukraine at the moment, so Id say take it easy on HulaHoops..

He came to take advantage of the war situation, not someone who was suddenly taken unaware.

[QUOTE=Wanking;2668558]BTW im sure these guys aren't the only tourists who are caught in Ukraine at the moment, so Id say take it easy on HulaHoops..[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=HulaHoops;2667577]Hello all,

We saw the news about the war and we thought it would be the perfect time to find some non-pros. We arrived in Ukraine, last week. We are men in our 60's, few of us have served in the military however none of us expected the situation to be as it is now.

Tanks have started moving into Kyiv, just yesterday Martial law was declared and our the ex military man on our team says things are about to get worse. We are not young men, we are over 60 and came here to see if we could find non-pros who were looking for stability in such unstable times.

In regards to women, they are available. Talking to a few and one even moved in with me eventhough I have not been here long. However she is very scared about the current situation, I am scared too. I do my best to hide it but the reading news and hearing about bombings is causing my ulcers to trigger. I hope I do not die in this country.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=JamesXBrown;2668495]I hope you get your asses thoroughly kicked, and then kicked out. Though I do hope you survive.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=VinDici;2668537]I echo this, to drop into a warzone for pussy is total madness. I hope you survive and can get home, but the vitriol directed towards you is deserved. [/QUOTE]Behold, two perfect blameless angels. Let us bask in your radiant glow.

I'm sorry, but personally my first reaction to HulaHoops posts were that he is writing a parodical joke.

But just in case that is not the case, then there should be the possibility to leave Kiev. It's said that the civilians are free to leave Kiev, without Russian army targeting them.


edit: might be too late.

[QUOTE=HulaHoops;2667863]To all the men thinking of coming to Ukraine for easy pussy, my answer quickly: Not worth it whatsoever. If I had known the situation was like this, I would honestly have never come. People are actually dying here, in Kiev because of Russian shelling. There is an actual threat to life. Coming here for pussy, is not worth it.

Summary:

We came as a group of about 5 of us. We are all over 60 and some in the group have actual military experience. We thought Putin was just posturing and that there was no chance in hell, he would actually send troops / tanks in.

We were completely wrong. We are in Kiev right now and they are tanks. Kiev and Kharkov are both surrounded by Russian soldiers and are under heavy shelling.

People on this board / the average newsreader doesn't understand how bad the situation is right now. For once, I would say the American media is downplaying how bad the situation in Kiev is. Electricity is sporadic. Internet is sporadic. Right now I am posting through a VPN. Getting access to food is becoming harder and harder. There is no one outside in the streets...[/QUOTE]Thanks to all the responses. As an update, we are surviving. As others have mentioned, sex as a priority has been completely removed. Everyone is too busy staying alive. To the criticism, I agree it was a stupid thing to come here but you must understand no one though Putin would actually invade. If Putin did not invade, we would be living like kings.

I am telling a factual story, we have actually met an older man from the US and a local man who we have paid to be our friend. Now we focus on survival.

[QUOTE=Desin;2668573]I'm sorry, but personally my first reaction to HulaHoops posts were that he is writing a parodical joke.

But just in case that is not the case, then there should be the possibility to leave Kiev. It's said that the civilians are free to leave Kiev, without Russian army targeting them.


edit: might be too late.[/QUOTE]Please I admit that I made a bad decision. But as I stated before, no one thought Putin would actually invade. If Putin did not invade, we would be enjoying ourselves here. I have nothing to gain from falsifying a report, I only hope to contribute good by warning others not to come here.

[QUOTE=Kozerog;2668156]Until Russia made the foolish decision to attack, Russia was winning (by chasing off investors and destroying Ukraine's economy) and USA was losing (by making predictions that failed to come true), which is why no one expected an invasion. Invasion will be disaster for Russia. China wins because a bankrupt Russia will be forced to supply China with unlimited raw materials. USA also big loser, because uniting Russia and China not good for USA. As for Ukraine, they will probably fight their way free of Russia, but the price will be every high. Ukraine will be even more bankrupted than Russia, though maybe the west will bail them out.

Actually, USA might win if there is a coup in Russia, due to failure of the invasion, and then Russia gets a true democracy. Belarus will follow, and then the west could bail out Russia to prevent it from falling into China's hands. Invasion definitely not going well for Russians. Combination of low morale, undertrained conscripts, logistics issues (lack of fuel, ammunition, spare parts), poor air-ground coordination making ground vehicles vulnerable to anti-tank weapons, etc. Hopefully, they won't get frustrated and start saturation bombing Kyiv.[/QUOTE]Putin has painted himself into a corner, burned his bridges (except for a problematic one with China), or whatever other metaphor you choose to use. His only choice is to succeed, either in real terms or in a way by which he can claim, even if it's propaganda smoke-and-mirrors, some kind of victory. Failure is not an option because it will undermine him at home, perhaps with terminal consequences. And, while it's absolutely true that the Russian military has the resources to (eventually) prevail, it matters how long, at what cost, and what level of brutality they use.

The next few days are key because, as soon as the banks and markets open on Monday, I expect the ruble to plummet and I also expect a run on some (Many? Most?) banks in Russia. There are already reports of long ATM lines. It doesn't really matter what the specifics of the financial sanctions are. All that matters is that Russian consumers and business owners have a level of uncertainty that triggers a "better safe than sorry" reaction. Nobody wants to have their money in a bank which might close for a "holiday" or might restrict withdrawals. Another possible reaction would be for people to buy tangible items that would maintain value in the face of a depreciating currency. Obviously the govt could step in with measures like price controls, but that would tend to drive people into buying and selling on the black market, at much higher prices.

And how will the elites and oligarchs react? How much leverage does Putin have over them, and vice versa? I have no idea but I do think this coming week is crucial. If Ukraine is able to hang on, the pressure on Putin will grow by the hour, exponentially.

About China, I absolutely agree with you that any help China gives Russia will come at a very expensive price. They're not friends, no matter how much they say otherwise, but rather rivals and even past enemies. Anyone who has watched China has heard them talk about their "Century of Humiliation" which, guess what, Russia was right in the middle of. Do a web search for Amur Annexation and see how much land (including Vladivostok) the Chinese were coerced into giving up. China has a long memory and, if Russia has to depend on them, the Chinese will looking to balance (or more) the ledger. One last note about China is that they have a tightrope to walk because they can't afford to alienate Western markets, especially Europe. So that will affect the quantity and quality of help they give Russia.

As far as the West is concerned, some countries are dependent on Russian oil and gas but that won't be enough to stop sanctions, and accusations of war crimes, and other measures that will ensure Putin and his elites are seen as pariahs in many parts of the world. Certainly that seems to be happening in Europe, even in countries formerly sympathetic to Russia.

I have no crystal ball but I don't see any positive outcome for Putin. Like you, I hope and pray that the situation resolves without something (more) horrific happening, like the saturation-bombing of Kyiv.

P.S. You couldn't pay me enough right now to be Putin's food taster or bodyguard.

[QUOTE=Desin;2668573]I'm sorry, but personally my first reaction to HulaHoops posts were that he is writing a parodical joke.

But just in case that is not the case, then there should be the possibility to leave Kiev. It's said that the civilians are free to leave Kiev, without Russian army targeting them.


edit: might be too late.[/QUOTE]Agree, from everything I've read, that it's too late to leave. So any non-Ukrainian in Kiev (or other city) and unable to leave would be well-advised to find some kind of local support to help them navigate and survive the current situation. Some organizations, like churches, NGOs, or charitable groups, might offer help free of charge. Otherwise you might look for a local who will help in exchange for payment.

Whenever this crisis ends, I wouldn't be surprised if the hryvnia stays at a low level for a long time. If that's case, some kind of deal in which payment will be made in Euros or GBP or USD could be very attractive. Of course, your local benefactor will also want some or most of the money up front. But I think it would be important to offer a sizeable bonus for getting you through the whole crisis in one piece. And there's also the cryptocurrency option, although I'm no expert on that. Depending on internet access and what kind of bank accounts are involved, something should be able to be worked out.

And choose wisely, because there's always the chance they take your money and leave you high and dry. One suggestion, if staying in a hotel or Airbnb, talk to the manager or owner as a start. Good luck!

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Still not safe particularly. However as mentioned before we have paid a local man handsomely to help us and have met another american expat. Plus the older Ukrainian woman is still with us and she has been a source of help of us. I shouldn't need to state but there are no opportunities for mongering here right now whatsoever, the younger women are not interested in meeting up plus there's an air of resentment towards foreigners. The damage to Kyiv is quite sad and a once beautiful city is being destroyed.

We were attacked by Ukrainians who were angry that our western countries did not aid Ukraine (we are all white foreigners) however we are healthy now and have learnt to keep our heads down and just focus on survival. The attitude towards foreigners here is one of resentment and some hatred.

No mongering to be had in Kyiv for a long long time. To all other tourists / mongers in Kyiv or wherever in Ukraine right now: keep your head down and do not flaunt wealth or your western status whatsoever. Focus on survival and avoid even having any contact with single women. People are suspicious of foreigners right now, realize it will take some time to earn the trust of the Ukrainians around you. Of the utmost importance is to keep your identification documents on you and do not trust anyone with them.

HulaHoops maybe this video might help you. Or least give you some inspiration.

[URL]https://youtu.be/PcOav_-kkx8[/URL]

[QUOTE=Wanking;2668845]HulaHoops maybe this video might help you. Or least give you some inspiration.

[URL]https://youtu.be/PcOav_-kkx8[/URL].[/QUOTE]Thank you friend it is much appreciated. The group I am travelling with, we are good friends and our goal right now is just to survive. Thank you everyone for the messages of support. The curfew in Kyiv was finally relaxed this Monday morning and it seems talks between Ukraine and Russia are ongoing, here is hoping to a quick resolution of the war.

Since I'm not able to send private message, I'll post it here for HulaHoops and his merry gang of bangers.

"France's foreign affairs minister Jean-Yves LE Drian today told French citizens that they can still leave the Ukrainian capitals by land. "The routes out of Kyiv from the south are not, of course, completely safe, but there is an opportunity to leave the city," LE Drian said after a ministerial meeting on the situation in Ukraine.

LE Drian noted, however, that France will be unable to provide them with on-site assistance during the trip. He also added that French citizens can also leave Kyiv by train. France closed its airspace to Russian aircrafts on Sunday.

Ukraine's Unian news agency reported earlier on Monday that trains were still running from Kyiv's Central Station, although they were facing delays of 3-4 hours. ".

I hope best of luck to you and your friends. If you are able to leave the city, maybe one of you giving an expensive watch for the person who helped you. Along with agreed monetary compensation. Could be an appreciated gesture and a life long memorial.

From what I have been viewing, there are active saboteurs within Kiev seeking to infiltrate and assassinate local officials. According to the the Geneva Convention, these individuals could be legally shot on sight for wearing the military uniforms of their opponents. The reason for the curfew is to narrow down and find these Russian spies and provocateurs who would be wandering the streets because they have no homes to hide.

I am curious about how a group of men in their 60's could possibly think it would be safe to visit Kiev shortly before the Russians invaded, all in the search of pussy. It was almost a certainty this would happen to you yet you went anyway. Really remarkable and like other posters have commented, it's hard to feel any pity for your situation though I do hope you find a way out. Needless to say, spare no expensive in leaving. I would try to go to a border town right on the Hungarian frontier either by hiring a driver and car or take the train if still running. You could avoid, at least in part, the influx of refugees headed to Lviv and the crowds at the border. These towns are directly across from Hungary. The closest to the border will be the towns of Berehove, Mukacheve and Uzhhorod. The last town may the best place.

I hope you already know this, but a 60 km long Russian convoy is now heading from north west toward Kyiv and is about to start a major assault. This means the convoy itself is enough to encircle the city center with about 20 km diameter.

I would do everything to get out of the city before it starts. If no curfew right now, I would even consider walking out of the city possibly to south overnight, although certainly risky. Doing so is safer during daylight, but it could be too late. If you walk 10 km from the center, theoretically you'll be out of the circle. You can walk 4 km per hour. Once you are out of the city parameter, you should be much safer.

But I'm by no means an expert on this, so make your own decision.

[QUOTE=HulaHoops;2668852]Thank you friend it is much appreciated. The group I am travelling with, we are good friends and our goal right now is just to survive. Thank you everyone for the messages of support. The curfew in Kyiv was finally relaxed this Monday morning and it seems talks between Ukraine and Russia are ongoing, here is hoping to a quick resolution of the war.[/QUOTE]If you think of things from Putin's perspective, he's already jumped in the deep end and needs to achieve a "win" at all costs. He's already a pariah to the rest of the world, and will probably be found guilty of war crimes. That means his only future lies within Russia, and he won't even have that if he fails. His supporters might endure and forgive all the sanctions and hardships IF he reclaims all (or a substantial part) of Ukraine. If he doesn't, he's finished.

At a minimum, IMHO, Putin will do his utmost to occupy and subjugate Kyiv itself. He already has the separatist regions, and he formally recognized them before invading, so he can't claim that as a win. In order for him to be able to claim a victory to justify the invasion, and be worthy of the losses Russia has already incurred, Kyiv is the prize he'll want.

One possible alternate scenario is if sanctions are able to quickly cause some kind of economic collapse, maybe Putin will lose popular support and-or the support of the elite. But that would need to happen in the next few days, because otherwise I don't see him stopping until he takes Kyiv. And that means street-to-street fighting, bombing, and all that horrific sh*t.

I hope and pray that I'm wrong, but it's hard to come up with any other scenario that allows Putin to save face, stay in power, and keep breathing. Inside Russia he has total control, unless there's a coup. From outside Russia the sanctions and pressures will take time to have maximum effect, and Putin will resist them as if his life depends on it, because it does.

Bottom-line, if there's any way to (relatively) safely get out of Kiev to a city that isn't in the line of fire, I'd seriously be exploring that option. Again, I hope I'm wrong, and I'd certainly like to hear what others think about possible scenarios. Wishing you and your friends luck.

OK, I'll bite it. You can leave now from 7 am to 8 pm via E95 Kyiv. Vasylkiv.

[QUOTE=HulaHoops;2668595]Please I admit that I made a bad decision. But as I stated before, no one thought Putin would actually invade. If Putin did not invade, we would be enjoying ourselves here. I have nothing to gain from falsifying a report, I only hope to contribute good by warning others not to come here.[/QUOTE]What are your present whereabouts and situation? How's the situation around you? Keep us updated.

[QUOTE=Tomasb;2668971] I would try to go to a border town right on the Hungarian frontier either by hiring a driver and car or take the train if still running. You could avoid, at least in part, the influx of refugees headed to Lviv and the crowds at the border. [/QUOTE]Another option: Border to Romania or _real_ Moldova. Not to mix up with Russian friendly PMR!

[QUOTE=Questner;2669054]OK, I'll bite it. You can leave now from 7 am to 8 pm via E95 Kyiv. Vasylkiv.[/QUOTE]A horribly bad suggestion, as is the walking.

[URL]https://ua.interfax.com.ua/news/general/804321.html[/URL]

Two people killed, three more wounded over missile attacks by Russian military in Vasylkiv. Mayor.

[QUOTE=Wanking;2668845]HulaHoops maybe this video might help you. Or least give you some inspiration.

[URL]https://youtu.be/PcOav_-kkx8[/URL][/QUOTE]That's Baldr! Unbelievable that!

Ukraine will be lost for some time now, where to go next?

So I've been going to Germany alot for sex for nearly 20 years.

I had constantly thought about visiting Ukraine / Kiev but never got around to it. Lack of all day sex clubs like they have in Germany put me off, among a few other things.

Any any update on HulaHoops and his crew? Hope they are safe.

Not much to report, some explosions in Kyiv but we are safe. Travelling to the border right now is not feasible. Russians have promised safe exit to civilians but of course one has to dodge shelling and missile fire. We are fine, staying away from angry Ukrainians and keeping our head down. No mongering to be had and it is not on our mind. Other Ukrainians are still somewhat suspicious of us. Blaming us for our countries not intervening however we are avoiding them and they have stopped attacking us. Such a shame that a country like this has become useless for mongering.

[QUOTE=HulaHoops;2669850]Not much to report, some explosions in Kyiv but we are safe. Travelling to the border right now is not feasible. Russians have promised safe exit to civilians but of course one has to dodge shelling and missile fire. We are fine, staying away from angry Ukrainians and keeping our head down. No mongering to be had and it is not on our mind. Other Ukrainians are still somewhat suspicious of us. Blaming us for our countries not intervening however we are avoiding them and they have stopped attacking us. Such a shame that a country like this has become useless for mongering.[/QUOTE]I hope you have a place to stay underground. They say the bombing could get really intense. Some experts think they may level the city like they did in aleppo in 2016. Did you know the actor Sean Penn went there to do a documentary on the invasion but then he decided to get the hell out of there. I think they drove as far as they could and then had to abandon their car for some reason. I cannot find a story that gives a lot of details on why he abandoned his car. Or how many miles he actually walked.

[URL]https://theprint.in/world/hollywood-star-sean-penn-leaves-ukraine-on-foot-walks-miles-to-reach-polish-border/854574/[/URL]

[URL]https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/news/sean-penn-ukraine-border-russia-b2026387.html[/URL]

[QUOTE=HulaHoops;2669850]Not much to report, some explosions in Kyiv but we are safe. Travelling to the border right now is not feasible.[/QUOTE]HulaHoops,

Did the Ukraine guys Physically attack any of you? Or just verbal?

How is your food supply? Water?

As you are older guys, probably some on medication? Have you enough or is it in short supply?

Feel free to tell us more. Or upload a video to YouTube if you can manage. Everyone is interested is cases like yours

Stay strong.

[QUOTE=Wanking;2670048]HulaHoops,

Did the Ukraine guys Physically attack any of you? Or just verbal?

How is your food supply? Water?

As you are older guys, probably some on medication? Have you enough or is it in short supply?

Feel free to tell us more. Or upload a video to YouTube if you can manage. Everyone is interested is cases like yours

Stay strong.[/QUOTE]Yeah they physically attacked our group. It was out of anger. They blamed westerners and they blamed our countries for not defending them.

Attitudes towards westerners have really soured and become negative in Ukraine. I can see their perspective I guess, their country is being destroyed. Western countries are just watching.

I suppose they transfer that resentment towards western tourists. Eventhough we are the ones who bring money to their country. I've never been in a place that's racist to white people before.

I think Ukraine will definitely need a very long time for attitudes to relax before it is suitable for mongering again.

We have supplies and medication, we pay a local to get supplies for us.

As for the suggestion of making a Youtube video, the other members of our group will be against it. Members of our group own businesses abroad and so their faces would be recognized.

Plus people would ask why we entered the country. We can't say, "Well we came to sleep with attractive young women for cheap as we thought Putin would not invade. However the crazy lunatic did invade and now we are stuck here. The local men are angry with us because we are western and have attacked us. The women are not interested in having sex and to top it all off, we are under shelling."

It would make some great videos but our reputations would must likely suffer damage.

[QUOTE=HulaHoops;2669850]Not much to report, some explosions in Kyiv but we are safe. Travelling to the border right now is not feasible. Russians have promised safe exit to civilians but of course one has to dodge shelling and missile fire. We are fine, staying away from angry Ukrainians and keeping our head down. No mongering to be had and it is not on our mind. Other Ukrainians are still somewhat suspicious of us. Blaming us for our countries not intervening however we are avoiding them and they have stopped attacking us. Such a shame that a country like this has become useless for mongering.[/QUOTE][URL]https://mobile.twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1499445304696913926?cxt=HHwWjICyqe3jjM8pAAAA[/URL]

If that link doesn't work, check out the main Twitter feed for Kyiv Independent. Scroll down and you'll see the report.

[URL]https://mobile.twitter.com/KyivIndependent[/URL]

[QUOTE=HulaHoops;2670081]Yeah they physically attacked our group. It was out of anger. They blamed westerners and they blamed our countries for not defending them.

Attitudes towards westerners have really soured and become negative in Ukraine. I can see their perspective I guess, their country is being destroyed. Western countries are just watching.

I suppose they transfer that resentment towards western tourists. Eventhough we are the ones who bring money to their country. I've never been in a place that's racist to white people before.[/QUOTE]Let Professor Mearsheimer explain: [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrMiSQAGOS4&t=5s[/URL].

We (the West) never really truly cared about Ukraine.

[QUOTE=HulaHoops;2669850]Not much to report, some explosions in Kyiv but we are safe. Travelling to the border right now is not feasible. Russians have promised safe exit to civilians but of course one has to dodge shelling and missile fire. We are fine, staying away from angry Ukrainians and keeping our head down. No mongering to be had and it is not on our mind. Other Ukrainians are still somewhat suspicious of us. Blaming us for our countries not intervening however we are avoiding them and they have stopped attacking us. Such a shame that a country like this has become useless for mongering.[/QUOTE]Dear Sir,

I don't know the situation there but if it were me and I could hire a driver I would risk getting shelled NOW before it gets worse and get the phuck out of there ASAP. What if the whole of Kiev leveled and even if underground what are your chances of survival? And if make it through all of that how would the Russians in a war zone treat anyone? Very latest in the media is Russian armor is heading towards a nuclear plant with intent to shut off the power (no electricity).

However as you mentioned you were attacked by Ukrainians and that may be the biggest risk. Also however if you knew a local guide(s) with "protection" who you could trust they could get you out by car to the border!

I wish you all the best and we all hope this can be ended peacefully soon.

And if locals ask why you there in the first place say considering retiring there due to low cost of living, culture etc. Kiev was a popular non-mongering tourist destination.

Sincerely,

David.

HulaHoops, it is not my place to advise you on your best course of action IE to stay put or make a run for the border. Its probably to late to make a run. I just wish you and your buddies the best.

Dumb question, have you contacted your Embassy? I would notify them immediately if you have not done so already and let them know you are there.

Good luck and God's speed.

A. H.

[QUOTE=Wanking;2670048]HulaHoops,

Did the Ukraine guys Physically attack any of you? Or just verbal?

How is your food supply? Water?

As you are older guys, probably some on medication? Have you enough or is it in short supply?

Feel free to tell us more. Or upload a video to YouTube if you can manage. Everyone is interested is cases like yours

Stay strong.[/QUOTE]What I wouldn't give right now for a squadron of A-10's from the Idaho Air National Guard taking care of the stalled convoy. They could get the job done and be back home before dinner. Add to that a Virginia-class SSN dispatching a couple of Russian warships to the bottom of the ocean.

[QUOTE=Max#01;2670175]What I wouldn't give right now for a squadron of A-10's from the Idaho Air National Guard taking care of the stalled convoy. They could get the job done and be back home before dinner. Add to that a Virginia-class SSN dispatching a couple of Russian warships to the bottom of the ocean.[/QUOTE]What a brave country.

Guys here are a couple very legitimate organizations taking donations and helping with the largest refugee crisis since World War II. Most guys on this website wouldn't even miss $50 or $100 and you can probably imagine how much help that can provide in eastern europe.

[URL]https://www.rescue.org/topic/ukraine-crisis[/URL]

[URL]https://www.icrc.org/en/donate/ukraine[/URL]

[QUOTE=LuckyNuts;2670195]Guys here are a couple very legitimate organizations taking donations and helping with the largest refugee crisis since World War II. Most guys on this website wouldn't even miss $50 or $100 and you can probably imagine how much help that can provide in eastern europe.

[URL]https://www.rescue.org/topic/ukraine-crisis[/URL]

[URL]https://www.icrc.org/en/donate/ukraine[/URL][/QUOTE]Can we get some authentic Azov Battalion branded gear for our donations to support the cause?

I read that Sean Penn had been in Kiev for a while and it was reported he interviewed Pres Zelensky in his bunker. I believe he left Kiev for Lviv and decided to go west to the Polish border from there, which is 55 miles away. Some place between Lviv and the border his car broke down so he could very well had a very long trek to cross the border. Nevertheless, he should be in Poland now or somewhere else in the vicinity. I am sure his documentary will be something to see.

On another note, it's remarkable to me that Wanker, the erstwhile mongerer who with his buddies are still in Kiev, and more remarkable he still persists in discussing mongering, or in his current situation, the lack thereof.

[QUOTE=MojoBandit;2670006]I hope you have a place to stay underground. They say the bombing could get really intense. Some experts think they may level the city like they did in aleppo in 2016. Did you know the actor Sean Penn went there to do a documentary on the invasion but then he decided to get the hell out of there. I think they drove as far as they could and then had to abandon their car for some reason. I cannot find a story that gives a lot of details on why he abandoned his car. Or how many miles he actually walked.

[URL]https://theprint.in/world/hollywood-star-sean-penn-leaves-ukraine-on-foot-walks-miles-to-reach-polish-border/854574/[/URL]

[URL]https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/news/sean-penn-ukraine-border-russia-b2026387.html[/URL][/QUOTE]

I didn't mean to offend anyone.

As I've said before, when we came we didn't expect Putin to invade. We just assumed he was talking nonsense. Now of course that he invaded, I am the first to admit we made a terrible decision. If my reports, help others that are stuck in the country or who may have even considered coming here then at least I helped one person.

I am sure there are many people who read this thread but don't reply that had the same idea as us and may even still be in the country.

To any foreign volunteer: do not believe the Ukrainian propaganda! The military situation in Ukraine is dire, the media will have you think that Ukraine is winning. That is not the case whatsoever! Please be careful.

[QUOTE=HulaHoops;2670081]

We have supplies and medication, we pay a local to get supplies for us.

.[/QUOTE]They are going to have a cease fire to allow civilians to evacuate. So you want to pay attention to the news if you can.

[URL]https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/03/03/russia-ukraine-war-putin-news/[/URL]

https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/top-wrap-10-ukraine-seeks-ceasefire-humanitarian-corridors-talks-with-russia-2022-03-03/

https://www.haaretz.com/world-news/europe/no-breakthrough-in-russia-ukraine-talks-but-agreement-on-humanitarian-corridors-1.10651124

[QUOTE=HulaHoops;2670291]

To any foreign volunteer: do not believe the Ukrainian propaganda! The military situation in Ukraine is dire, the media will have you think that Ukraine is winning. That is not the case whatsoever! Please be careful.[/QUOTE]Thank you for the real reports on the ground and stay safe! The media propaganda is very hard to avoid, when they all have a obvious bias.

[QUOTE=Rocko20;2670544]Thank you for the real reports on the ground and stay safe! The media propaganda is very hard to avoid, when they all have a obvious bias.[/QUOTE]Exactly, I did not want to say it. There is no way they can win, they never had a chance. I remember walking downtown and there was a military parade going. Both myself and my friend looked at each other and said, I hope this is not there military. Unfortunately, it was and they are getting destroyed, but as usually the media is lying, causing more unnecessary deaths.

[QUOTE=MojoBandit;2670354]They are going to have a cease fire to allow civilians to evacuate. So you want to pay attention to the news if you can.

[URL]https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/03/03/russia-ukraine-war-putin-news/[/URL]

https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/top-wrap-10-ukraine-seeks-ceasefire-humanitarian-corridors-talks-with-russia-2022-03-03/

https://www.haaretz.com/world-news/europe/no-breakthrough-in-russia-ukraine-talks-but-agreement-on-humanitarian-corridors-1.10651124[/QUOTE]

I wouldn't necessarily count on this humanitarian corridor.

There are also some experts who are pessimistic about this. After all who can still believe what Russia promises?

Russia initially said they would not target civilians. Now a humanitarian corridor? Makes zero sense.

If this happens, that is for Russia to be able to raze the city to rubbles.

So my advise, if anything, is: be careful in what you believe under this unfortunate circumstance.

I have seen some military analysis that suggests this corridor is being proposed only to get rid the citizens who might be part of active resistance fighters. Russia does not have a good track record in allowing citizens to safely pass thru a war zone.

[QUOTE=Sorbonne;2670553]I wouldn't necessarily count on this humanitarian corridor.

There are also some experts who are pessimistic about this. After all who can still believe what Russia promises?

Russia initially said they would not target civilians. Now a humanitarian corridor? Makes zero sense.

If this happens, that is for Russia to be able to raze the city to rubbles.

So my advise, if anything, is: be careful in what you believe under this unfortunate circumstance.[/QUOTE]

If there would be that kind of a poll, I'd vote HulaHoops for the Person of the Year ISG-award.

Posthumous or not.

Hopefully you get a chance to get out of there. Contacting your embassies is a good idea. If even one of them have contacts to help you, maybe everyone can use the same way out.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2670548]Exactly, I did not want to say it. There is no way they can win, they never had a chance. I remember walking downtown and there was a military parade going. Both myself and my friend looked at each other and said, I hope this is not there military. Unfortunately, it was and they are getting destroyed, but as usually the media is lying, causing more unnecessary deaths.[/QUOTE]As usual you opt for conspiracy theories rather than facts, first with Covid and now the war. Conservative and liberal medias in the states and Europe have been pretty much on the same page with this one. Ukraine has put up a much better fight than expected, and Russia has been frustrated. No one has been under the illusion that Ukraine can win in the short term, militarily, is why Zelensky has begged for NATO air support. However Russia has already lost in that all but a few nations are dead set against them. That will continue to carry heavy costs. They also may not have enough soldiers to occupy and win the peace, and thus will have to deal with NATO backed insurgents for a long time to come. They could amount to more loses.

We are deciding whether to stay or move to Poland for a bit. At least to Lviv and then the border. What a terrible trip and idea to come.

[QUOTE=HulaHoops;2673432]We are deciding whether to stay or move to Poland for a bit. At least to Lviv and then the border. What a terrible trip and idea to come.[/QUOTE]Still zero pics of what's going on over their? Nothing? Hmmmmmmmmmm.

[QUOTE=HulaHoops;2673432]We are deciding whether to stay or move to Poland for a bit. At least to Lviv and then the border. What a terrible trip and idea to come.[/QUOTE]If you stay in Kyiv, there's a huge downside as taking that city is Putin's #1 priority. And, if he's unable to achieve that goal, there's a high probability of increased shelling, bombing, and street-fighting. As to what the upside of staying in Kyiv is, I literally have no clue as to what that could be. Only you can answer that question for yourself.

So, which would you regret more? Leaving Kyiv and missing out on whatever you perceive the possible benefits to be of staying? Or staying and possibly (probably, IMO) finding yourself in worsening conditions and likely unable to leave.

Only you can decide but, after all you've already experienced, if you decide to stay you'll assume full ownership of any negative consequences that may befall you or those in your group.

Relocating to Poland would appear to be the safest and most prudent option, as it's a NATO member and not likely to be under threat unless there's a major escalation. Lviv would be the compromise choice but you'd need to evaluate the pros and cons of remaining in what is still technically a war zone. Yes, Lviv is currently safer than Kyiv, but that doesn't preclude a missile or bomb strike if Putin decides to flex his muscles and wants to intimidate NATO without directly striking a NATO country.

[QUOTE=HulaHoops;2673432]We are deciding whether to stay or move to Poland for a bit. At least to Lviv and then the border. What a terrible trip and idea to come.[/QUOTE]How you going to leave Kyiv?

From news reports, there were air alert sirens going off in the wee hours the last few nights. Whether those are only tests, they did not say.

As the city does not appear to be subject to bombíng or missile strikes at the current time. But I believe Putin's goal now is to level the entire country and render it unlivable, and that includes Lviv. For a foreigner to stay in Ukraine now is pointless, unless you are a journalist or a relief worker or have a death wish.

[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2673568]If you stay in Kyiv, there's a huge downside as taking that city is Putin's #1 priority. And, if he's unable to achieve that goal, there's a high probability of increased shelling, bombing, and street-fighting. As to what the upside of staying in Kyiv is, I literally have no clue as to what that could be. Only you can answer that question for yourself.

So, which would you regret more? Leaving Kyiv and missing out on whatever you perceive the possible benefits to be of staying? Or staying and possibly (probably, IMO) finding yourself in worsening conditions and likely unable to leave.

Only you can decide but, after all you've already experienced, if you decide to stay you'll assume full ownership of any negative consequences that may befall you or those in your group.

Relocating to Poland would appear to be the safest and most prudent option, as it's a NATO member and not likely to be under threat unless there's a major escalation. Lviv would be the compromise choice but you'd need to evaluate the pros and cons of remaining in what is still technically a war zone. Yes, Lviv is currently safer than Kyiv, but that doesn't preclude a missile or bomb strike if Putin decides to flex his muscles and wants to intimidate NATO without directly striking a NATO country.[/QUOTE]

Reports of explosions from a possible Russian missile attack. Or the explosions could have been caused by Ukrainian anti-missile defenses. Either way, it's not good news for Lviv. Details sketchy at the moment but I'm sure more info will be released soon.

[URL]https://mobile.twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1502861153638174721?cxt=HHwWgsCylbeQntspAAAA[/URL]

[URL]https://mobile.twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1502874720752054274?cxt=HHwWhMC5hZKmpNspAAAA[/URL]

Here are a couple of sources I've been following for breaking news:

[URL]https://mobile.twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1502874720752054274?cxt=HHwWhMC5hZKmpNspAAAA[/URL]

[URL]https://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/[/URL]#sort=new.

[QUOTE=Tomasb;2673689]From news reports, there were air alert sirens going off in the wee hours the last few nights. Whether those are only tests, they did not say.

As the city does not appear to be subject to bombng or missile strikes at the current time. But I believe Putin's goal now is to level the entire country and render it unlivable, and that includes Lviv. For a foreigner to stay in Ukraine now is pointless, unless you are a journalist or a relief worker or have a death wish.[/QUOTE]He's the one in Kyiv, not me. But, for the record, I completely agree with you. Any non-Ukrainian who isn't actively involved in (or supporting) the defense effort is consuming resources that could be put to better use.

[QUOTE=Sorbonne;2655996]Whether or not the invasion eventually happens, the threat is real, and I left Ukraine 2 weeks before the US government's recommendation for a southern European country.

A regular from Kyiv is now asking me to let her join me. I'm not sure what I'm going to do with her. I don't want her to necessarily join me, but if I refuse, it'll probably be the end of our relation.[/QUOTE]

Although I left Ukraine in early January, Putin's war has been affecting me in several different ways, one of which is:

The regular I talked about above is actually a former freebee, not a pro or semi-pro, who has been married in the last few years in Kyiv. So a few days after I left Ukraine when nobody was still not really serious about the possibility of invasion, she thought I was still in Ukraine and sent me a message, saying that she was about to get divorced and asked me if I wanted to go "crazy" with her. From her recent photos, she still appears to be in mid 20's. When I was hanging with her, she thought I was about 10 years older, whereas in fact I am more than 25 years older.

I was not sure if I wanted to get entangled with your divorce; therefore, I was not sure if I wanted her to join me. But I kept in touch with her on this matter. Then I sent her a message on Valentine's Day, saying that she should leave Kyiv to the western Ukraine at least for the next few weeks. At that time she still believed that there would be no war.

The last time I heard from her on March 2, she was still in Kyiv. Now I can no longer contact her.

[QUOTE=Sorbonne;2673747]
The last time I heard from her on March 2, she was still in Kyiv. Now I can no longer contact her.[/QUOTE]She might try to go to Bulgaria, via Romania. Quite some few Ukrainians already here.

In case, Burgas (BG) the destination, I might be of help.

[QUOTE=HulaHoops;2673432]We are deciding whether to stay or move to Poland for a bit. At least to Lviv and then the border. What a terrible trip and idea to come.[/QUOTE]<Cough> <cough> , bullshit.

While I left Kyiv just days before the invasion (my employer pulled me out against my wishes) so don't have first had reports now, I am in daily contact with dozens of people on the ground. Things are bleak, but certain contributors are just making shit up.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2670548]Exactly, I did not want to say it. There is no way they can win, they never had a chance. I remember walking downtown and there was a military parade going. Both myself and my friend looked at each other and said, I hope this is not there military. Unfortunately, it was and they are getting destroyed, but as usually the media is lying, causing more unnecessary deaths.[/QUOTE]Hater to the depths of his soul...if he had one.

I don't know when the last time you "walked down the street" during a military parade (I am doubtful that you ever have), but the Ukrainian military has changed dramatically in the last 8 years.

I have been in Moscow during the May Day parade. They put on a good show, but it is a very thin faade.

I'm not sure what to say to those who don't believe me. If you think what I'm saying is not true, then so be it.

I have no reason to falsify my reports or mislead anyone.

Once the war is over, I hope other Travelers come to Kyiv and experience the attitude of the Ukrainians towards foreigners.

[QUOTE=YummyPL;2675150]Hater to the depths of his soul...if he had one.

I don't know when the last time you "walked down the street" during a military parade (I am doubtful that you ever have), but the Ukrainian military has changed dramatically in the last 8 years.

I have been in Moscow during the May Day parade. They put on a good show, but it is a very thin faade.[/QUOTE]Sorry, you are wrong as usual. Lived there and done it. I left because of the corruption, somehow you guys conveniently leave this out of your reports. Kiev has not been this Paradise for a long tine and one of the most corrupt countries in the world. This is one of the reason Ukraine was having so many problems internationally.

I feel horrible for the people of Ukraine, not so much for there government. I have zero compassion for those returning to flight a loosening battle. Many of those left years ago because of corruption and better opportunities. They choose not to flight then to save there country, maybe they should have fought to save there country then. Ukraine was screwed either way, horrible situation. There will be no winners, maybe China.

Putin is definitely to blame, but everyone is mishandling this including America and Europe. The clown running Ukraine is also making everything worse, there will be nothing less. In war a tie is not a win.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2675162]Sorry, you are wrong as usual. Lived there and done it. I left because of the corruption, somehow you guys conveniently leave this out of your reports. Kiev has not been this Paradise for a long tine and one of the most corrupt countries in the world. This is one of the reason Ukraine was having so many problems internationally.

I feel horrible for the people of Ukraine, not so much for there government. I have zero compassion for those returning to flight a loosening battle. Many of those left years ago because of corruption and better opportunities. They choose not to flight then to save there country, maybe they should have fought to save there country then. Ukraine was screwed either way, horrible situation. There will be no winners, maybe China.

Putin is definitely to blame, but everyone is mishandling this including America and Europe. The clown running Ukraine is also making everything worse, there will be nothing less. In war a tie is not a win.[/QUOTE]You left because some working girl made you her ***** and you can't let it go.

No one is saying Ukraine is a paradise. Monger paradises don't exist anymore.

[QUOTE=YummyPL;2675186]You left because some working girl made you her ***** and you can't let it go.

No one is saying Ukraine is a paradise. Monger paradises don't exist anymore.[/QUOTE]Paradise does exist. I left to go to Moscow that was an amazing experience, at that tine it was pretty close to paradise. No now.

When you an others do not give accurate reports, you are doing a disservice to others. I got sick watching people getting screwed over. You know this as well as I do.

Obviously, you do not read some of your role models reports, they were claiming it was paradise even up until the end.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2675193]Paradise does exist. I left to go to Moscow that was an amazing experience, at that tine it was pretty close to paradise. No now.

When you an others do not give accurate reports, you are doing a disservice to others. I got sick watching people getting screwed over. You know this as well as I do.

Obviously, you do not read some of your role models reports, they were claiming it was paradise even up until the end.[/QUOTE]My role model?

I also enjoy Moscow. At least I did 5-7 years ago. But it is far from paradise. I can't imagine Moscow is improving.

Who knows what the future will hold. What we know for sure is that Ukraine will be a very different place when this is over.

[QUOTE=YummyPL;2675413]Who knows what the future will hold. What we know for sure is that Ukraine will be a very different place when this is over.[/QUOTE]And when the full force and effect of crippling sanctions take grip upon the Russian people and their economy, so too shall Russia be a very different place.

[QUOTE=TheCane;2675429]And when the full force and effect of crippling sanctions take grip upon the Russian people and their economy, so too shall Russia be a very different place.[/QUOTE]Perhaps we will be able to get sex in Russia for a pair of jeans again.

[QUOTE=TheCane;2675429]And when the full force and effect of crippling sanctions take grip upon the Russian people and their economy, so too shall Russia be a very different place.[/QUOTE]The entire world will change as the result of this. First Covid, now this ridiculous war, nobody wins.

[QUOTE=TheCane;2675429]And when the full force and effect of crippling sanctions take grip upon the Russian people and their economy, so too shall Russia be a very different place.[/QUOTE]Russia supplies the world with fertilizer for their crops they have sanctioned the US to not receive any until at least after December, the only thing that is crippling is this administration.

[QUOTE=Sorbonne;2675503]Has also been saying the Ukrainians now hate foreigners. That is a grave concern, if we ever return.

Even during the pandemic I started feeling that people have not been as friendly as they were before the pandemic in this provincial city I was living in, which has been bombarded by now.[/QUOTE]Ukrainians are under attack and, while the primary object of hate is Putin (plus all his supporters and enablers), it's not surprising that they might feel varying levels of anger at those countries they think could and should be doing more to help.

The "No Fly Zone" is probably the best current example. It's perfectly rational and reasonable for NATO countries to point out how the imposition of a NFZ would escalate the situation and likely make things worse. But Ukrainians who've lost loved ones and seen their towns and cities reduced to rubble aren't feeling particularly reasonable, and their responses are (understandably) coming from an emotional place, not a rational one.

Such strength of feeling is likely to last a long time for many, perhaps even generations. While there will certainly be individual, and perhaps regional, variations, it's my guess the level of anger against non-aggressors will be highest against the stronger NATO countries, such as the US, UK, Germany, etc. That's simply a function of the fact that they have more power to help and, in the minds of many (most?) Ukrainians, have failed to do so or failed to do enough.

It's impossible to predict the future, and much depends on how long the war continues, and how it ends, but the country and its people have already been permanently scarred. Which means that it will be prudent for anyone visiting Ukraine to take that into account.

I'm not a fraud. I had nothing remarkable to post or report, I simply read posts and visited different places. I am sure they are plenty of other lurkers in the forum.

We came here as we knew that foreigners were leaving Ukraine. We also assumed that it would be easier to meet women. We didn't expect Putin to invade and I don't think anyone thought he would actually go through with it.

Again, if you don't believe me that's up to you. I have no motivation to mislead or lie to others. We were assaulted. Now will every foreigner that comes to Ukraine get assaulted? Of course not.

However from what I have observed, there is more of a negative attitude towards obvious foreigners here.

Everything I am posting is just my opinion from what me and my group have experienced. I am not writing this as some authority. I am just a single monger. If someone else comes to Ukraine and doesn't agree with what I posted, that's fine. There's no argument, it is just two different sides. The more information on a place, the better in my opinion.

When the war finishes and other mongers come to Ukraine. I hope they will contribute and write about their experiences on the attitudes of Ukrainians towards foreigners.

As for me being a sleeper account created by Russian trolls. OK. As I have stated repeatedly, if you don't believe me that's fine. I have no reason to lie or mislead anyone.

Last time in Ukraine for me was 2013. Already there were some bad signs. On the girl front, there were lip and boob implants, or whatever they are, botux, and changed attitude from visits going back a decade. I can't be the only one who noticed this. On the same summer trip, I went down to Odessa, and it happened to be on Ukraine Independence Day. On the edge of a big Park, there was a parade, actually it was a procession of military vehicles -- tanks and various types of similar. They went around in front of the crowd, then back behind a big central building, and came around again over and over. Maybe 20 vehicles, but it created the illusion it was an entire army. The crowd was enthusiastic, especially the kids. When it was over, the vehicles stopped, the troops got out and let the kids in -- into the tanks, into everything. They couldn't be held back and wanted to touch everything. Can't blame them, might have done the same thing at that age if given the chance, only the chance wasn't there. I watched these kids and thought what are they thinking letting them inside tanks and holding the guns like that. Well, here it is ten years' later and they get to play for real.

I noticed that Escort. VC has been back up since March 23 when they updated the "News" section.

You will also see that many of the girls are now working at other European countries under Escort. VC banner.

One even moved to Thailand and another to Crimea.

[QUOTE=Sorbonne;2681761]I noticed that Escort. VC has been back up since March 23 when they updated the "News" section.

You will also see that many of the girls are now working at other European countries under Escort. VC banner.

One even moved to Thailand and another to Crimea.[/QUOTE]I don't recall looking at this website before today. But I see the prices are $200 to $250 per hour. Wow that's expensive!

[QUOTE=LuckyNuts;2681777]I don't recall looking at this website before today. But I see the prices are $200 to $250 per hour. Wow that's expensive![/QUOTE]Don't use escort. Vc. Ridicolus expencive, they are exploiting tourists and so on. You can easily find the same quality for less money if you interact on the streets, use social medias etc.

[QUOTE=HulaHoops;2675529]I'm not a fraud. I had nothing remarkable to post or report, I simply read posts and visited different places. I am sure they are plenty of other lurkers in the forum.

We came here as we knew that foreigners were leaving Ukraine. We also assumed that it would be easier to meet women. We didn't expect Putin to invade and I don't think anyone thought he would actually go through with it.

Again, if you don't believe me that's up to you. I have no motivation to mislead or lie to others. We were assaulted. Now will every foreigner that comes to Ukraine get assaulted? Of course not.

However from what I have observed, there is more of a negative attitude towards obvious foreigners here.

Everything I am posting is just my opinion from what me and my group have experienced. I am not writing this as some authority. I am just a single monger. If someone else comes to Ukraine and doesn't agree with what I posted, that's fine. There's no argument, it is just two different sides. The more information on a place, the better in my opinion.

When the war finishes and other mongers come to Ukraine. I hope they will contribute and write about their experiences on the attitudes of Ukrainians towards foreigners..[/QUOTE]Where's the pics you promised bud? Or is their no internet in the bomb shelter? Must be that.

I have misgivings about posting this, because it's hearsay, but I've been reading reports in other forums about hostile attitudes towards foreigners in Kyiv recently, worse in April than in March. Confirms what Hulahoops reports. Some of these people reporting hostility never left Kyiv, others recently returned to check on their apartments. Other reports say attitudes same as ever. Something to think about. If you have a particular girl you want to see, my advice is go to Chisinau, Moldova and have her take the bus there, versus you taking the bus to Kyiv. That's my plan for this summer.

I'm in Berlin now and I was able to reflect on my time in Kyiv.

There really was no hostility, people were just scared and unsure what was going to happen if I am honest. They were just a lot of scared people. Of course during war, the native population is more important than foreigners. I stayed in touch with a lot of the men and women I met during my time in Kyiv and they are really looking forward and inviting me to come back when the war is over.

Now with seeing all that the west has done to help Ukraine and punish Russia. I would say Ukrainian people are looking forward to the war being over and foreigners coming to visit and help out Ukraine. Once the war is over, Ukraine will be one of the best places to visit for foreigners and I am sure everything will be cheap.

Ukraine after the war, will be a very attractive destination for tourists as I am sure it will be cheap and they will be extremely welcoming to western visitors who take an interest in their country.

In fact I would say that once the war is over, westerners are going to be extremely highly valued in comparison to the local men.

As a man in my 60's, all the women I met (a lot of these women are in their 20's) and know from before are hounding me to let them know when I am arriving back in Kyiv. There was never this much interest in me before the war. I know once I go back to Kyiv when the war is over, it'll be a very enjoyable time for me.

[QUOTE=HulaHoops;2689436]In fact I would say that once the war is over, westerners are going to be extremely highly valued in comparison to the local men.

As a man in my 60's, all the women I met (a lot of these women are in their 20's) and know from before are hounding me to let them know when I am arriving back in Kyiv. There was never this much interest in me before the war. I know once I go back to Kyiv when the war is over, it'll be a very enjoyable time for me.[/QUOTE]It's my sense that countries and their citizens are likely be viewed more or less favorably according to the level of support they provided Ukraine during the war. At the top of the favorability rankings will be those who "punched above their weight" and truly went above and beyond. That would include countries such as Poland, the Baltics, Czechia, Slovakia, etc. Lower down in the favorability rankings will be countries that provided significant (even essential) support yet, because they are large and rich nations, many will say they've only done what what was reasonable and expected, while others will fault them for not having done more (or done it sooner). Countries on that list would probably include the US, the UK, France, etc.

Consider that, in the minds of many, Ukraine is fighting against Putin on behalf of the West, and especially on behalf of Europe. I'm sure there will be a generally grateful attitude, but I don't think Ukraine will view Western weapons or aid as charity. Rather, and rightfully so (IMO), they'll see it as the price that had to be paid to fight Russian aggression. And they'll point out that Russia's threats against Moldova, the Baltics, the Nordics, and elsewhere, are evidence that Putin was never going to be satisfied with Ukraine only. Zelensky has been making this point on a regular basis and I expect he'll keep doing so.

One final group will be countries and their citizens viewed least favorably, and perhaps even with anger and overt hostility. Those will be countries viewed as either barely lifting a finger to help, being indifferent to Ukraine's fate, or perhaps even being actively sympathetic to Putin. That list will likely include countries like Serbia, Hungary, and Germany (within Europe) and countries like China (outside of Europe).

Obviously there will be different feelings depending on the individual, the region or city, and even those could change over time. My only point is that these are considerations that could realistically come into play and that anyone planning a post-war visit would be prudent to keep them in mind.

[QUOTE=HulaHoops;2689430]Ukraine after the war, will be a very attractive destination for tourists as I am sure it will be cheap and they will be extremely welcoming to western visitors who take an interest in their country.[/QUOTE]I disagree. Foreigners will be perceived as exploiters and the root cause of this mess.

Guys,

You have to really question your source of news! On another forum that I am part of. I spoke to a member who was sharing negative news on Ukraine, he confessed that he was posting bad news ago Ukraine so that "he could discourage other foreigners from going to the country and he could have the best choice of women at the best price when he visited the country."

Anyone can see that prices are going to very cheap after the war and that women will be looking for men to provide for them. The demand for men with money to spend is going to be extremely high. Just watch out for people spreading bad news about why one shouldn't visit Ukraine.

Do you really think Ukrainian women will hate foreigners coming to their country after war? Of course not. They will look forward to it, especially those coming to spend money.

I was in Kiev during Christmas time for two weeks. I swiped over 500 girls on Mamba before arriving in Kiev and had telegram / WhatsApp contacts of about 20 girls before landing. I asked one of the girls to come to my Airbnb as soon as I arrived and she showed up. She (21 yo) spent the night at my apartment and I fucked her 4 times with Condom- damage 4000 UAH. The service was excellent and the girl was extremely beautiful. NExt day, I contacted other girls in my arsenal and she stayed with me for two days. She offered BBFS for 6000 UAH (2 days and nights) - she was 19 and was enjoying the sex. After that I was contacted by another girl on mamba and she didn't ask for money. She stayed with me 2 days, was 18 yo and a complete nymphomaniac- again BBFS. Fucked her brains out. Similarly, I was able to get stunner, young girls for the rest of my stay.

Takeaways-.

- invest time on mamba.

- don't offer more than 4000 UAH per day. If they ask for more, move on.

- if you keep your filter for 18-22 yo, you will find them.

- don't offer dinner or other means of entertainment before sex. [blue][Deleted by Admin][/blue]

PM me for contacts. Some of the girls are willing to travel to Krakow or Warsaw for 2-3 days period.

[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2689662]Obviously there will be different feelings depending on the individual, the region or city, and even those could change over time. My only point is that these are considerations that could realistically come into play and that anyone planning a post-war visit would be prudent to keep them in mind.[/QUOTE]I think a lot depends on what a post-war Ukraine looks like. It depends on whether the West embarks on a Marshall Plan type rebuilding of the Ukraine. This will take some time.

Ukrainians who lost loved ones can never rebuild their lives back the same.

I wouldn't expect to be greeted with cheering and flowers the day after the resolution of the conflict.

[QUOTE=HulaHoops;2689430]Ukraine after the war, will be a very attractive destination for tourists as I am sure it will be cheap and they will be extremely welcoming to western visitors who take an interest in their country.[/QUOTE]This is crazy. First, many people will never return to Ukraine. The beautiful, hard working, and smart will never go back. They had been fleeing the country for 8-12 years, maybe longer, why would they suddenly return to nothing.

They have trying to go to Europe for years, now they have there chance. Most will not want to go to the states, they know that Europe is better life and you have to work your ass off in the states.

Even when I was there 8 years ago the attitude to foreigners had changed.

[QUOTE=HulaHoops;2689763]Guys,

You have to really question your source of news! On another forum that I am part of. I spoke to a member who was sharing negative news on Ukraine, he confessed that he was posting bad news ago Ukraine so that "he could discourage other foreigners from going to the country and he could have the best choice of women at the best price when he visited the country."

Anyone can see that prices are going to very cheap after the war and that women will be looking for men to provide for them. The demand for men with money to spend is going to be extremely high. Just watch out for people spreading bad news about why one shouldn't visit Ukraine.

Do you really think Ukrainian women will hate foreigners coming to their country after war? Of course not. They will look forward to it, especially those coming to spend money.[/QUOTE]"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future."

Unless they have a crystal ball, today's news sources are irrelevant. Over the coming months and years I'm sure some will paint a rosy picture while others will dwell on the doom-and-gloom side of things. And both sides will probably be equally guilty of overgeneralizations and confirmation bias.

I sincerely doubt there's anyone around with significant experience mongering in the immediate aftermath of a brutalizing war. If anyone thinks the post-war period isn't going to be chaotic and emotionally charged, I have a bridge I'd like to sell you. It's my assertion that there will be a variety of women's attitudes toward foreigners, depending on that foreigner's nationality (and the perception of helpfulness vs unhelpfulness toward Ukraine) and depending on that woman's personal experiences.

A woman who lost family members, for example, is going to feel a lot of anger and hatred toward Russia and anyone she blames for enabling the war. Will she need money? Absolutely! But, for a monger from a hated country, she might be willing to do some truly nasty shit and justify it by saying they deserved it. I don't specifically know about past episodes in Ukraine of mongers being robbed, drugged, roughed up, or even killed, but it wouldn't surprise me to see a post-war increase in such incidents.

Again, I don't have a crystal ball, and I'm not offering predictions, just raising a cautionary note. But I am highly skeptical of anyone who thinks, with respect to the post-war environment in Ukraine, that they've got it all figured out. All I know is that, if I was visiting from Belgrade, Budapest, or Berlin, I certainly wouldn't be advertising that fact. Of course, if the hotel staff or Airbnb host have access to that info, that makes keeping it a secret a bit more problematic.

Nothing bad is going to happen to foreigners, come on guys. During the war nothing bad happened to foreigners, why do people think anything bad will happen after the war.

There is a lot of foreigners that have confessed to spreading negative news about Ukraine, the reason they do is so that they can come to Ukraine and have no competition for women from other foreigners. Ukraine out of all the countries in eastern Europe has a large amount of beautiful women and they love foreign guys, a lot of guys are trying to discourage others from going there.

[QUOTE=Hi291;2689880]I was in Kiev during Christmas time for two weeks. I swiped over 500 girls on Mamba before arriving in Kiev and had telegram / WhatsApp contacts of about 20 girls before landing.[/QUOTE]December 2021, for far too many Ukrainians, is another world and (quite literally) a lifetime ago.

[URL]https://www.corkbeo.ie/news/ukrainian-woman-accused-sex-working-23650449[/URL]

After the war, many women will be very interested in finding foreigners. That's all I am trying to say.

I am speaking to many Ukrainian women now and they are very interested in when I am coming back, more interested now in me than before the war.

As long as you are not Russian, you will be welcomed.

How is the situation in Kiev? Is it open to tourism? And are the escorts Bookable?

Reading and watching various sources, it's reasonable to predict that Turkish Mongers are going to have a great time in Kiev when the conflict ends, in appreciation to the role played by Turkish Drones, cheap and effective.

[URL]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=S4qUsPCFV28[/URL]

I'm a guy with colored skin. I also thought like you before. But I tried to contact some girls in Ukraine with VK. As long as I talk with them something intimate, they will put me to blacklist immediately. All I can say is: Glory to Ukraine. Your kindness or willingness to help the poor single girls will be treated as employing their difficult situation.

[QUOTE=Hi291;2689880]I was in Kiev during Christmas time for two weeks. I swiped over 500 girls on Mamba before arriving in Kiev and had telegram / WhatsApp contacts of about 20 girls before landing. I asked one of the girls to come to my Airbnb as soon as I arrived and she showed up. She (21 yo) spent the night at my apartment and I fucked her 4 times with Condom- damage 4000 UAH. The service was excellent and the girl was extremely beautiful. NExt day, I contacted other girls in my arsenal and she stayed with me for two days. She offered BBFS for 6000 UAH (2 days and nights) - she was 19 and was enjoying the sex. After that I was contacted by another girl on mamba and she didn't ask for money. She stayed with me 2 days, was 18 yo and a complete nymphomaniac- again BBFS. Fucked her brains out. Similarly, I was able to get stunner, young girls for the rest of my stay.[/QUOTE]Are you a very handsome guy in photos? Or did you use a fake photo, no offending? I used VK with the same strategy, I got zero reply. But I have to admit, my skin has color.

[QUOTE=Jojosun;2690225]Reading and watching various sources, it's reasonable to predict that Turkish Mongers are going to have a great time in Kiev when the conflict ends, in appreciation to the role played by Turkish Drones, cheap and effective.

[URL]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=S4qUsPCFV28[/URL][/QUOTE]Pre landing in post war Kiev still needs planning ahead even for would be Turkish Mmngers.

1 Starting on Mamba with a Turkish sounding handle "Bayraktar" .

2 Once on the ground in Kiev, Sweeten your way around with boxes of [URL]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-x1SAeHXgw[/URL].

3 € and US $ Will still do the talking in post war Kiev.

[QUOTE=HessenStud;2690328]I'm a guy with colored skin. I also thought like you before. But I tried to contact some girls in Ukraine with VK. As long as I talk with them something intimate, they will put me to blacklist immediately. All I can say is: Glory to Ukraine. Your kindness or willingness to help the poor single girls will be treated as employing their difficult situation.[/QUOTE]Different girls have different choices. Its a spray and pray strategy. The more you reach out to the more likelihood of connecting. Loads of Ukrainian girls holiday in middle east and some work there as sex workers- therefore, there is some affinity to brown guys. There are plenty, who are racists. Less girls prefer colored men though. Some girls want quick fuck and they will talk to you only if they see you in Kiev. I don't talk intimate on the chats- straight to business- mamba to telegram and then "meet for financial assistance" offer on TG. Most who agree to come on TG are willing and will ask for size of prize and that's when you can make an offer. If you like anal, you need to ask upfront but normal sex, BBBJ and DFK is given as Ukrainian normal / semi-pro girls enjoy sex equally. I normally don't ask about sex with condom or not as I need to look at the girl in person to evaluate if I'm going to go BBFS, otherwise the base option is with condom for me.

[QUOTE=HessenStud;2690331]Are you a very handsome guy in photos? Or did you use a fake photo, no offending? I used VK with the same strategy, I got zero reply. But I have to admit, my skin has color.[/QUOTE]Use your own photos. Most will ask you to share some additional pictures on telegram before they actually come to meet you and most of them have had bad experiences with fake photos.

Kiev. A pity!

I will make no political issues, but it's a real pity.

I still remember how I fucked in Kiev! OMG.

The scene had already worsened few years ago when they raided and closed the River Palace, a sort of Disneyland for adults, full of girls willing to fuck!

How I remember Inga. A student striving for a cum load in some of my best photos. Not a beauty, but definitely what you need in bed! Really a cum dump, a vacuum sucker and an anal queen! Some of my best pics, cuffed to bed, waiter costume and fed with newly brewed still warm nut juice!

[URL]http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?1080-Anal-Connoisseurs/page102[/URL]

Here in an anal dilatation session!

[URL]http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?1080-Anal-Connoisseurs&p=765579&viewfull=1[/URL]#post765579.

[URL]http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=88236&d=1200665732[/URL]

Here Inga in one of my best pics ever. Yesss you imagine right on what is in the tea spoon!

[URL]http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=85231&d=1197401121[/URL]

Ohhh Uliana, a blonde stallion, 180 more or less 70 kg, riding so hard that she was leaving blue marks on my body, she was riding so on both holes! But no dick sucking!

Funny, a part some dinner and some presents she was for free.

[URL]http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?1616-Photo-Gallery&p=688286&viewfull=1[/URL]#post688286.

Katya, a former porn star, a beauty, soft and voluptuous, but a log in bed, a pity!

[URL]http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?1616-Photo-Gallery&p=905254&viewfull=1[/URL]#post905254.

Katya and Nastya, may be not beauties, but Nastya (the big one) was riding like hell, and Katya was swallowing mouthfuls of my nut juice! Mmm.

[URL]http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?1616-Photo-Gallery&p=905254&viewfull=1[/URL]#post905254.

Ira, or as I called Ivol. Pale, skinny, pink: perfumed and tasty!

[URL]http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?1616-Photo-Gallery&p=688233&viewfull=1[/URL]#post688233.

Other great fucks. The girl covering the face is Viola, form Gia agency, young and horny, drilled by tens of ISG members, a pity for the face acne she had. The petite supertitted one is Ekaterina. A small compact, soft fucking machine: natural born threeholer (pic 1, 2 and 5)! Tit fuck was superlative. A full the size on a petite around 155 cm!

[URL]http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?1616-Photo-Gallery&p=514037&viewfull=1[/URL]#post514037.

And here the Star from Kiev. Mystery Tramp aka Alesia.

She was a regular to River Palace, despite she was not a beauty when she arrived men was like bees on flowers! She was hired in just some minutes! A bed animal!

Skinny, tanned, almost no tits, unshaved, but what a fucking machine!

Almost 50 known members of ISG fucked her (at the time we made a search! Wonderful tight three holes, injected cum in her throat! Here some pics from a session where she was wearing a waiter costume and was properly hand cuffed to the bed! The fun was that in most long sessions she was getting real pleasure! Moaning and having real orgasms!

[URL]http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?1616-Photo-Gallery&p=682783&viewfull=1[/URL]#post682783.

Here the infamous ID photo of Mystery Tramp. Swollen and wet pussy! OMG What a session!

[URL]http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=17395&d=1103110694[/URL]

A couple of years later she was naked, cuffed and glazed! What a fight to make her swallow the loads!

[URL]http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=85604&d=1197886586[/URL]

Now even Moscow is a difficult place to go to. I lost there my historic anal queen: Valentina!

It's hard to find a girl looking so after you have pumped her sphincter all the night!

[URL]http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=51573&d=1156685993[/URL]

[URL]http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?1080-Anal-Connoisseurs&p=771163&viewfull=1[/URL]#post771163.


I still remember I did her and her sister. Wonderful! Doing sisters is the top!

In Moscow, unfortunately I lost also my new threeholer queen. A pity!

From my post.

"A big part is in your brain, it's not a matter of dick pleasure. Just some time ago I spent some time (4 days) with Nastya. (in the picture). Pale, 18,158 cm, 48 kgs, A+ cups, a pity not so pink between the legs, but when you take her really rough in missionary anal, and looking her face, when your tongue get at the end of the eyebrow, and in a couple of centimeters you feel a salty tear. Mmm you will pump the brain out of her. ".

[URL]http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=291583&d=1550568592[/URL]

I still remember that the poor girl for four mornings got an IT wake up. Ie immediate hard anal!

Just my memories. In Kiev!

IT.

[QUOTE=ItTravel;2690934]Just my memories. In Kiev![/QUOTE]I remember those photos of all of your butt fucked Slav girl tutes IT. Ah, the way we cornholers were! Thanks for the memories!

[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifWOSnoCS0M[/URL]

[QUOTE=HessenStud;2690331]Are you a very handsome guy in photos? Or did you use a fake photo, no offending? I used VK with the same strategy, I got zero reply. But I have to admit, my skin has color.[/QUOTE]Of course, it wasn't impossible to meet girls in Kyiv who are willing to do a lot for (relatively) little money. Before and after Christmas was low season for the sex business. There were definitely a few girls who needed money. Otherwise, prices in Ukraine were already much higher in 2021/22. Especially in summer. Even in a normal job you could earn good money. The number of girls in the sex business (and the quality of looks) was already worse than it was a few years ago.

Unfortunately, I have to warn against such postings. A new member and then reports that contradict the reports of other members. In addition, the offer to bring girls to Poland or to initiate contacts in this direction.

The journey from Kyiv to Poland and back is very tiring. I did this myself just two weeks ago. And with almost zero waiting time at the border (1 hour). Here you should calculate (return) about 40 hours of time. Will a girl be willing to do this weekend trip for $200-300? I also have contact with girls that I have known for a long time. The fear of such a trip is greater than a possible hail of bombs in Kyiv. Especially since there is a lot of reporting in the Ukrainian media of pimps and rapes after crossing the border.

The next step will probably be sharing contact information via Telegram (etc.). And when contacting the girls, they ask for money for the trip. In advance of course. However, the girl will never arrive in Poland. Especially in times of war there is no way to get the authorities involved and report a criminal incident.

[QUOTE=Hi291;2690595]I don't talk intimate on the chats- straight to business- mamba to telegram and then "meet for financial assistance" offer on TG.[/QUOTE]Did you have some text on your Mamba profile?

There's a very high demand for foreign guys from the women in Ukraine. My hope is for the war to finish in early May and then travel there almost immediately to comfort my many honeys that are waiting for me to return. Of course after a such a turbulent time, the women need and are looking for comforting.

[QUOTE=HulaHoops;2691134]There's a very high demand for foreign guys from the women in Ukraine. My hope is for the war to finish in early May and then travel there almost immediately to comfort my many honeys that are waiting for me to return. Of course after a such a turbulent time, the women need and are looking for comforting.[/QUOTE]War can last months or years.

Lot of pretty girls will prefer remain in safe Europe than come back country in ruins.

Lot of stingers and Kalashnikov in who knows what hands, will be dangerous country.

I wish I'm totally wrong and we can enjoy Kiev again ASAP.

Anybody notice a massive increase in webcam girls supposedly hailing from Ukraine? I'm not into that kind of thing, but I've noticed the increase. Do you guys think it's legit, or do you think it's a lot of girls trying to take advantage of a situation? You know, maybe trying to get more money due to a kind of "sympathy vote"? I mean, these tutes lie like hell about where they're from even in good times! Besides, if you're a refugee with nowhere to go, how are you able to be showing your ass on a webcam? Then again, maybe it's not all refugees, but girls still living in Ukraine. After all, the whole country isn't under constant attack. Who knows the truth? All I know is that there are likely to be far, far more Ukrainian girls turning to prostitution in the west! Let alone the webcam stuff.

[QUOTE=TheCane;2690982]I remember those photos of all of your butt fucked Slav girl tutes IT. Ah, the way we cornholers were! Thanks for the memories!

[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifWOSnoCS0M[/URL][/QUOTE]Yep I remember the River Palace. Wow! 100/200 girls ready for anything. And the infamous Mystery Tramp (the state of art of making sex). And even the more infamous (extra skinny, almost anorexic, but drinking like a Russian sailor) Lolita... sucking like a vacuum cleaner: extracting every single drop of cum! OMG! OMG!

IT.

[QUOTE=Desin;2691125]Did you have some text on your Mamba profile?[/QUOTE]No, I don't post any text on mamba. Your target crowd doesn't care about the text anyways. They do care about pictures, somewhat.

War should hopefully be over in a few weeks. Kiev will be twice as good as it was before, foreign money with money to spend will be able to fully enjoy ourselves. Every day I hope I will read "War in Ukraine is over."

Hi fellow comrades,

I'm new in the forum and I'm looking for some help with finding contacts of Ukrainian girls who might be in Poland now.

Must surely some of you know girls that had to go to Warsaw or Krakow because of the "special operation". I'll be visiting the country sometime next week and some help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advanced.

[QUOTE=HulaHoops;2667863]To all the men thinking of coming to Ukraine for easy pussy, my answer quickly: Not worth it whatsoever. If I had known the situation was like this, I would honestly have never come. People are actually dying here, in Kiev because of Russian shelling. There is an actual threat to life. Coming here for pussy, is not worth it.

Summary:

We came as a group of about 5 of us. We are all over 60 and some in the group have actual military experience. We thought Putin was just posturing and that there was no chance in hell, he would actually send troops / tanks in.

We were completely wrong. We are in Kiev right now and they are tanks. Kiev and Kharkov are both surrounded by Russian soldiers and are under heavy shelling.

People on this board / the average newsreader doesn't understand how bad the situation is right now. For once, I would say the American media is downplaying how bad the situation in Kiev is. Electricity is sporadic. Internet is sporadic. Right now I am posting through a VPN. Getting access to food is becoming harder and harder. There is no one outside in the streets. Shops are closed, of course the shops are closed. All the shop owners are in the bomb shelter. Everyone is either in the bomb shelter or cowering at home. The streets are empty apart from soldiers. A few days ago, Russian soldiers wearing Ukrainian clothes were found and executed. They are plenty more like that. I am sure you have seen the video of a Russian tank running over a man who is in a car. That is just the tip of the iceberg, there are more atrocities being committed that are not recorded..[/QUOTE]So, you and your group predicted Putin wouldn't invade (big oops)! And you posted at length about your horrific experiences. Yet now you feel confident in predicting a rosy post-war scenario? Am I missing something here?

All my old posts were made in a state of panic and wondering if I would be stuck and unable to leave an active warzone.

It wasn't that bad and it's definitely improved now. Right now, western Ukraine is pretty peaceful.

Of course, it will be extremely silly to go to Ukraine now. But as soon as the war stop, it's going to be one of the best places on earth. Women that are friendly and seeking comfort, very very open to meeting new guys.

I mentioned Chisinau twice in this forum, but upon further investigation, Chisinau is not good for girls from Kyiv or central Ukraine because Transdniestria has blocked borders. My new plan is fly to Romania in June, then take the bus to either northeast Romania, maybe continuing on to Chernivitsi or Vinnytsia or even Kyiv in Ukraine, depending on the situation.

[QUOTE=Kozerog;2691705]I mentioned Chisinau twice in this forum, but upon further investigation, Chisinau is not good for girls from Kyiv or central Ukraine because Transdniestria has blocked borders. [/QUOTE]You can enter MD via Odessa, not crossing PMR.

I have always loved and visited Ukraine, Lviv, Kyiv and all the major cities. I am a man in my 60's, I have travelled all over Eastern Europe. If you name a country in Eastern Europe I have been there and most likely spent a few months living there. I enjoy looking for the best places to monger and find semi / non-pros. Ukraine has always been my crown jewel and a hidden gem for me.

Out of all the countries and cities I have visited in Europe in terms of friendliness and receptive women, the best is hands-down Ukraine. In terms of the most attractive women, most friendly, cheapest, lowest amount of gold-diggers and most open to relationships with men of my age. Ukraine is the country me and my friends had the most fun and had the best reception from the women. If you will speak to most women in Ukraine, you will hear from quite a few of them that their parents relationships had an age-gap so I guess that's why there's not that much of a negative stereotype. In Ukraine, it was easiest for us to arrange mutually beneficial with women and very rare for us to get negative reactions. At least compared to the western sex prison countries that some of us come from.

In Ukraine, you have the benefit of English speakers, a large amount of women so they don't have that small town mentality where they are scared of being seen with a foreigner. Now with the war hopefully coming to an end, there's going to be a large drop in the price of money demanded by women. They will be happy to get whatever they can, even if you use an online dating app you will see that women are very eager to meet foreign men. May / June I aim to be in Kyiv or Lviv.

[QUOTE=HulaHoops;2691656]All my old posts were made in a state of panic and wondering if I would be stuck and unable to leave an active warzone.

It wasn't that bad and it's definitely improved now. Right now, western Ukraine is pretty peaceful.

Of course, it will be extremely silly to go to Ukraine now. But as soon as the war stop, it's going to be one of the best places on earth. Women that are friendly and seeking comfort, very very open to meeting new guys.[/QUOTE]In the way that panic is at one end of the emotional pendulum, excessive optimism is at the other. To my mind, statements and predictions made at either extreme are problematic.

So, while I certainly hope that your rosy post-war mongering scenario comes to pass, I'm cognizant of many negative factors that could very well present themselves. And I'm also aware of the fact that there are many variables and circumstances we simply don't know about yet, and can't readily predict.

So I guess the short version of what I'm saying is "hope for the best, but prepare for the worst. " Your posts, however, seem to be implying that there will be no "worst," and no potential negatives at all. I'm not sure that will prove to be accurate and I'd take predictions of an unqualified positive mongering environment with a grain of salt.

[QUOTE=HulaHoops;2691790]I have always loved and visited Ukraine, Lviv, Kyiv and all the major cities. I am a man in my 60's, I have travelled all over Eastern Europe. If you name a country in Eastern Europe I have been there and most likely spent a few months living there. I enjoy looking for the best places to monger and find semi / non-pros. Ukraine has always been my crown jewel and a hidden gem for me.

Out of all the countries and cities I have visited in Europe in terms of friendliness and receptive women, the best is hands-down Ukraine. In terms of the most attractive women, most friendly, cheapest, lowest amount of gold-diggers and most open to relationships with men of my age. Ukraine is the country me and my friends had the most fun and had the best reception from the women. If you will speak to most women in Ukraine, you will hear from quite a few of them that their parents relationships had an age-gap so I guess that's why there's not that much of a negative stereotype. In Ukraine, it was easiest for us to arrange mutually beneficial with women and very rare for us to get negative reactions. At least compared to the western sex prison countries that some of us come from.

In Ukraine, you have the benefit of English speakers, a large amount of women so they don't have that small town mentality where they are scared of being seen with a foreigner. Now with the war hopefully coming to an end, there's going to be a large drop in the price of money demanded by women. They will be happy to get whatever they can, even if you use an online dating app you will see that women are very eager to meet foreign men. May / June I aim to be in Kyiv or Lviv.[/QUOTE]You think the war will be over then? Like you thought Russia would not invade?

[QUOTE=HulaHoops;2691656]All my old posts were made in a state of panic and wondering if I would be stuck and unable to leave an active warzone.

It wasn't that bad and it's definitely improved now. Right now, western Ukraine is pretty peaceful.

Of course, it will be extremely silly to go to Ukraine now. But as soon as the war stop, it's going to be one of the best places on earth. Women that are friendly and seeking comfort, very very open to meeting new guys.[/QUOTE]It won't be that easy. I don't think that the prices will go down extremely and that masses of willing girls will be available again. It's war at the moment. All the girls who are still in Ukraine have a lack of money. After the war, exactly the opposite will happen. Then greed takes over again.

It is now easier to go to Western Europe. There you can get a legal residence permit. Many girls have already used this. Not much will change immediately after the war. Ukrainians have always had a keen sense of where money can be made.

Why should girls fuck in Kyiv for $50 or $100 after the war? There is an opportunity to go to other countries. Where prostitution is legal. And you can make a lot more money with the job than for cheap prices in Kyiv. The not-so-beautiful women then stay in Ukraine. The beautiful or clever women go abroad, buy an apartment in Ukraine and come back only for vacation. But not to fuck 60+ men for cheap.

In western Ukraine in particular, the opposite is already noticeable. Fucking for food or to pay the rent? There's no reason for that anymore. Food is free everywhere. If you have absolutely nothing, you can go abroad. Female students too. Because unlike in the Ukraine, you can study for free in western Europe in many countries. In Germany there is even money for living expenses from the state.

A single woman with a child in Kyiv and without a job was driven into prostitution by the lack of money. Now this woman can live the train or bus to Germany. There is a free apartment, money for furnishing the apartment, free health insurance and at least 600 euros for living expenses. A value of at least 1200 or 1400 euros per month. All without prostituting yourself for it. Everything legal. Which wasn't the case before. Which path will many of these women choose? Fucking in Ukraine for a living or all for free in western Europe?

"While I certainly hope that your rosy post-war mongering scenario comes to pass, I'm cognizant of many negative factors that could very well present themselves. And I'm also aware of the fact that there are many variables and circumstances we simply don't know about yet, and can't readily predict."

Many Factors will surface in the post _war situation in Ukraine and Kiev in particular. "Because, as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we do not know we don't know."

It's not as easy to leave Ukraine and go to western Europe as it seems.

I am speaking to lots of women that left Ukraine and for those that did not know anyone in the western country, many of them are just waiting for the war to be over so they can go back to Ukraine. A lot of women I am speaking, are being forced to work and clean and are basically at the whims of the people they are staying with.

Not to mention those that can't speak English are in terrible positions in western countries. The media will always portray the best stories or the worst stories. Never the middle ground of the family that took in a refugee and has maid the refugee do all the housework like a maid.

Anyway we will just have to see what happens in the Ukraine when the war finishes and foreigners arrive.

I do still believe it will be a feast for men.

[QUOTE=Misterxxx;2692018]A single woman with a child in Kyiv and without a job was driven into prostitution by the lack of money. Now this woman can live the train or bus to Germany. There is a free apartment, money for furnishing the apartment, free health insurance and at least 600 euros for living expenses. A value of at least 1200 or 1400 euros per month. All without prostituting yourself for it. Everything legal. Which wasn't the case before. Which path will many of these women choose? Fucking in Ukraine for a living or all for free in western Europe?[/QUOTE]More than 1000 Euro is a little exaggerating. But 500 Euros is the minimum. I would say 600 to 700 Euro per person per month. I don't know if there is free apartment in Germany. But if a German provide an Ukrainian a room to live, he can get 200 to 300 Euro from the government. The food will cost 150 to 200 Euro per month if you eat meat one time per day. 10 eggs costs about 2 Euro in supermarket, 500 gram bread costs about 80 cents, you can imagine the living cost in Germany. I don't know insurance cost. For a normal worker the insurance will cost at least 300 Euro per month, but for student and refugees it should be much cheaper. Some cities even provide free German courses. Some cities are discussing if they should let Ukrainians have the working permit, because at least they can clean the room or taking care of children.

I tried with Mamba to hook up some women in Kiev, the chance at the moment is extremely low, they just don't reply. I don't think things will get better soon, because the girls in Germany will invite their sisters to come to Germany instead of waiting some foreign prophets.

[QUOTE=Misterxxx;2692018]It won't be that easy. I don't think that the prices will go down extremely and that masses of willing girls will be available again. It's war at the moment. All the girls who are still in Ukraine have a lack of money. After the war, exactly the opposite will happen. Then greed takes over again.

It is now easier to go to Western Europe. There you can get a legal residence permit. Many girls have already used this. Not much will change immediately after the war. Ukrainians have always had a keen sense of where money can be made.

Why should girls fuck in Kyiv for $50 or $100 after the war? There is an opportunity to go to other countries. Where prostitution is legal. And you can make a lot more money with the job than for cheap prices in Kyiv. The not-so-beautiful women then stay in Ukraine. The beautiful or clever women go abroad, buy an apartment in Ukraine and come back only for vacation. But not to fuck 60+ men for cheap.

In western Ukraine in particular, the opposite is already noticeable. Fucking for food or to pay the rent? There's no reason for that anymore. Food is free everywhere. If you have absolutely nothing, you can go abroad. Female students too. Because unlike in the Ukraine, you can study for free in western Europe in many countries. In Germany there is even money for living expenses from the state.[/QUOTE]The post-war situation in Ukraine will be radically different, both in the ways you point out and in other ways we don't yet know. And I think you're spot on to point out the economic advantages of Ukrainian women moving to other, more lucrative, cities in Europe (or further abroad) and sending money back home. While we'll have to wait and see how things develop, it's definitely not going back to "business as usual" and will likely be pretty chaotic.

Moving to a new country with no language is not as rosy as it seems.

If war is over by end of May, latest end of June. Free handouts will stop August. If you'll read the news you'll see that people are beginning to move on from the war of Ukraine, in fact if you read polish news you'll see that:

[URL]https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/polands-resources-running-dry-ukrainian-refugee-crisis-continues-rcna25991[/URL]

People are actually starting to get fed up of all the refugees. It's not all roses and flowers for refugees, most refugees aren't being treated fairly and not all countries in western Europe are easy to access.

Use seeking benefits, tinder, mamba and you will see that the women there are definitely looking for foreign men. A war has devastating effects on a country's economy and no matter what provisions are provided, a Ukrainian person will always try and stay closest to Ukraine or she'll go where her family is and western Europe is so expensive to someone coming from Ukraine with no job. That's why most Ukrainians are currently in Poland. They could go Germany or Netherlands but they stay in Poland. Why, because they want to go home. Not to mention the language barrier.

All I'm saying is after the war, there will definitely be women open and very willing to meet western men.

[QUOTE=HulaHoops;2692185]Moving to a new country with no language is not as rosy as it seems.

If war is over by end of May, latest end of June. Free handouts will stop August. If you'll read the news you'll see that people are beginning to move on from the war of Ukraine, in fact if you read polish news you'll see that:

[URL]https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/polands-resources-running-dry-ukrainian-refugee-crisis-continues-rcna25991[/URL]

People are actually starting to get fed up of all the refugees. It's not all roses and flowers for refugees, most refugees aren't being treated fairly and not all countries in western Europe are easy to access.

Use seeking benefits, tinder, mamba and you will see that the women there are definitely looking for foreign men. A war has devastating effects on a country's economy and no matter what provisions are provided, a Ukrainian person will always try and stay closest to Ukraine or she'll go where her family is and western Europe is so expensive to someone coming from Ukraine with no job. That's why most Ukrainians are currently in Poland. They could go Germany or Netherlands but they stay in Poland. Why, because they want to go home. Not to mention the language barrier.

All I'm saying is after the war, there will definitely be women open and very willing to meet western men.[/QUOTE]Do you have an inside source at the Kremlin? What if Putin, without a clear path to victory but unwilling and unable to admit defeat, decides to double-down and escalate? The latest scenario I've seen discussed is a possible invasion of Moldova, using attacks in Transnistria (blamed on Ukraine) as a pretext. If something like that happens, it could have the effect of opening up a new front in this war and it would almost certainly prolong things. Or he could decide to just remain in a stalemated position for a while, along the current lines of demarcation, and continue to lob missiles occasionally at Kyiv, Lviv, Odessa, etc. The point is that there are a large number of factors that will determine how long things continue. And, while we all hope it will end ASAP, it could realistically go on for much longer than expected.

I'm not in the business of predictions, rather I'm more about making observations about events and trends. As for your May and June timeline, while I applaud your optimism, I'd also offer the observation that you might want to retire your crystal ball. It really hasn't served you very well recently, has it?

We will just have to wait and see, I do hope and think end of may, end of June, the war hopefully should be winding up. Putin's forces are almost depleted and their bank account is surely hurting.

[QUOTE=HulaHoops;2692185]All I'm saying is after the war, there will definitely be women open and very willing to meet western men.[/QUOTE]I'm sorry to hear that, because it really hurts the feeling of colored people, including all men from Asia and Africa. Considering you have never posted any positive or successful experience in Kiev, I would say you have some strange view.

Nowadays the Ukrainian have the most difficulty time, no money, no job, no education chance, no good sleeping, even no hope! If they are not willing to meet foreigners now, I don't think after war they will change their mind. I tried hard to contact the girls on Mamba and also tried to persuade them to come to Germany, but until now no single reply. Of course I only contacted the above average looking girls. I can see they have read my messages. I just could not figure out why they don't even say a word like 'Thank you! If she is a smart girl, she should have heard or read on Internet, Germany provides very good accommodation for all Ukrainian refugees, not like some country only provides weapon and money but don't accept refugees. If she wants to earn more money by providing relaxation service, in Germany they can visit hotel or their customers, the police doesn't control prostitute's advertisement at all, of course, in Germany they can still find customers via VK, Mamba, Tinder, or Sugardaddy. Maybe some experienced members here can explain a little, why there are still some beauties in Kiev even now? (From Mamba I can see they are indeed in Kiev, one possibility is they are using fake photos.).

My group of monger friends includes one African-American man and an Indian man. They are both in their 50's. They use mamba, tinder and seeking to meet women in Ukraine. They are both talking to lots of women, they have women interested in them and they have very positive monger stories to say.

Of course if you open your first message with "Can you come to Germany and I will take care of you", the woman will naturally be suspicious and every single woman will ignore your all messages. One has to ask in a socially intelligent way and of course one must build a relationship with the woman, before asking such a big task of her. I like to have phone and video calls with the woman (without sending them money) and build a relationship with them. Just taking a bit of interest in her and her hobbies. Once I have built rapport then I will ask her to meet. When I left Ukraine, I stayed in Poland for a few weeks before I had to return to Berlin. I used this time to rent an Airbnb near the border. I used the method I described above and was able to meet a beautiful 22 year old Ukrainian woman online, she came to Poland and stayed with me. She did all cleaning, cooking and housework. We had lots of sex and I of course I gave her a generous amount of which she was extremely grateful for it. I had to leave back to Berlin but I gave her a great financial gift, she lives in an accommodation with an elderly Polish couple in Poland, we have video calls everyday, and we are in a semi-relationship. I will be going to visit her in Poland in the upcoming weeks however she does mention that she misses Ukraine and is just waiting for the war to finish so she can return home.

I know others mongers my age offline that are in situations that I was / am in. I know men my age in my 60's who have moved temporarily to Poland and are living with very attractive Ukrainians who they care for. These mongers will never post online about their situations because of course they don't want everyone doing it and they don't want to mess up the good thing they have.

There is gold to be found, one just has to put the work in to find it.

It's always a delight to read stories from a storyteller, whose story takes turns according to the comments the listeners give to him as a reaction to the latest plot twists he has just told.

But about the matter at hand, I just wonder how will all the services that tourists rely on come back to life in Kiev after the war. How soon. Or late. Will restaurants and cafes start to operate, how long will they be able to do their business? I'd suppose the locals would have to revitalize the downtown by their spending, to get things back to normal. And then it could be a place of visit again.

Personally, I think I would feel unease there, being served by people who have either fled their country or served on the front line. And yet, maybe it would the 'back to normal' they'd eventually wish to find.

[QUOTE=Desin;2693257]It's always a delight to read stories from a storyteller, whose story takes turns according to the comments the listeners give to him as a reaction to the latest plot twists he has just told.

But about the matter at hand, I just wonder how will all the services that tourists rely on come back to life in Kiev after the war. How soon. Or late. Will restaurants and cafes start to operate, how long will they be able to do their business? I'd suppose the locals would have to revitalize the downtown by their spending, to get things back to normal. And then it could be a place of visit again.

Personally, I think I would feel unease there, being served by people who have either fled their country or served on the front line. And yet, maybe it would the 'back to normal' they'd eventually wish to find.[/QUOTE]I suspect there will be a huge inflow of Western money to rebuild the Kiev and other part of country.

While there is no exact comparison to a European country that suffered invasion in WW2 either allied or axis, liberator or aggressor, I think it will be fine to visit the Ukraine. I don't know how dangerous Germany was in the immediate aftermath of WW2. The Italians seemed consenting to Allied occupation. Again, none of these are exactly comparable situations. I'm also sure someone in those countries after WW2 was pissed off about things in the aftermath.

The only hope the Ukraine has longer-term is foreign investment and foreign cash. However, it might be best to avoid conspicuous mongering for awhile.

One simply has to put the work in and use all different platforms available to them, to be able to meet attractive women who will be open to meet.

"One simply has to put the work in and use all different platforms available to them, to be able to meet attractive women who will be open to meet".

From the archives of the Cold War years 1950's.

1950's European Hula Hoop Craze. YouTube.

[URL]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-zovbmm8lX8[/URL]

Now it seems Hoola Hoops are back in vogue in Ukraine and it would make a handy present and a topic of conversation, making contacts, Hoola Hooping on a Kiev Beach, HydroPark.

Make Hula Hoop, not War! Peace for Ukraine. [URL]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6RNn83GDB58[/URL].

A Japanese banker gives an account of being in Germany after World War One, women having sex for pennies. After World War Two, Germans used to line up outside cinemas to grab the cigarette butts from Allied soldiers who tossed them away. Any idea where are the war brides the GIs got came from?

You'll be in your element in Western Ukraine.

[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2693267]I suspect there will be a huge inflow of Western money to rebuild the Kiev and other part of country.

While there is no exact comparison to a European country that suffered invasion in WW2 either allied or axis, liberator or aggressor, I think it will be fine to visit the Ukraine. I don't know how dangerous Germany was in the immediate aftermath of WW2. The Italians seemed consenting to Allied occupation. Again, none of these are exactly comparable situations. I'm also sure someone in those countries after WW2 was pissed off about things in the aftermath.

The only hope the Ukraine has longer-term is foreign investment and foreign cash. However, it might be best to avoid conspicuous mongering for awhile.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2693850]A Japanese banker gives an account of being in Germany after World War One, women having sex for pennies. After World War Two, Germans used to line up outside cinemas to grab the cigarette butts from Allied soldiers who tossed them away. Any idea where are the war brides the GIs got came from?

You'll be in your element in Western Ukraine.[/QUOTE]As such, when the war comes to an end, places like Kyiv and Lviv should achieve relative normality pretty quickly. Obviously the areas brutalized by Russian troglodytes will recover more slowly, and the issue of returning refugees is a wild card that's hard to predict. But, wherever there's a lot of money circulating, sex workers are bound to flourish.

Russia, however, will be under sactions, reparations mandates (or both) for years or even decades. So the bleak post WW-I scenario you bring up is more likely to happen in Moscow and St. Petersburg. Except that the selection will probably be sparse, since any intelligent and attractive woman will do her best to leave a futureless country. But, for any monger who is able to get into Russia, it should be quite inexpensive. Forget money, as it'll probably have devolved into a barter economy. I'm guessing a roll of Western toilet paper will get you a roll in the hay.

[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2693850]A Japanese banker gives an account of being in Germany after World War One, women having sex for pennies. After World War Two, Germans used to line up outside cinemas to grab the cigarette butts from Allied soldiers who tossed them away. Any idea where are the war brides the GIs got came from?[/QUOTE]It definitely sounds a whole better than being gang raped by Russian soldiers. Not to mention, having to be one of millions rushing to flea to the United States / British side before the arrival of the Russian Mongol army.

An American cigarette butt was likely better than a fresh Soviet crap cigarette.

LOL "After World War Two, Germans used to line up outside cinemas to grab the cigarette butts from Allied soldiers who tossed them away".

45 Years later inThe Soviet Union, "Desperate Soviet smokers are resorting to extremes, puffing dried tea leaves and buying tobacco dust used as insecticide. And a new, stomach-turning trade has blossomed: Jars of used cigarette butts are on sale at peasant markets. Travelers returning from the Crimea say an eight-ounce glass of butts costs one ruble (about $1.60)."

[URL]https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1990-08-24-mn-1195-story.html[/URL]#text=The%20 Soviet%20 Union%20 has%2077,in%20 buses%2 C%20 elevators%20 and%20 restaurants.

I'm back in Ukraine now. I don't know about it elsewhere, but Mamba (a Russian site anyway) is definitely blocked here. Via the local landline provider, via my Lifecell card, but also via the free internet in the restaurant. Of course you can try any tricks and get to the site. But this blocking will probably mean the end for Mamba in Ukraine. Less new girls and clients.

[QUOTE=Misterxxx;2694533]I'm back in Ukraine now. I don't know about it elsewhere, but Mamba (a Russian site anyway) is definitely blocked here. Via the local landline provider, via my Lifecell card, but also via the free internet in the restaurant. Of course you can try any tricks and get to the site. But this blocking will probably mean the end for Mamba in Ukraine. Less new girls and clients.[/QUOTE]They will move to tinder.

I'm curious about situation there now, you feel safe? What city you are? How behave local people towards you? Women open to meet you?

[QUOTE=Misterxxx;2694533]I'm back in Ukraine now. I don't know about it elsewhere, but Mamba (a Russian site anyway) is definitely blocked here. Via the local landline provider, via my Lifecell card, but also via the free internet in the restaurant. Of course you can try any tricks and get to the site. But this blocking will probably mean the end for Mamba in Ukraine. Less new girls and clients.[/QUOTE]If that's true, it will be a disaster! With Tinder you cannot contact the others for free, you need a match, you know the chance if your look is not outstanding, right? Several years ago, the VK was also forbidden in Ukraine, it could be acceptable that now they want to do the same to Mamba.

A VPN will allow you to access mamba.

[QUOTE=HulaHoops;2695178]A VPN will allow you to access mamba.[/QUOTE]Ukrainian girls will not use VPN, then its the same.

[QUOTE=HessenStud;2695085]If that's true, it will be a disaster! With Tinder you cannot contact the others for free, you need a match, you know the chance if your look is not outstanding, right? Several years ago, the VK was also forbidden in Ukraine, it could be acceptable that now they want to do the same to Mamba.[/QUOTE]I'm not a tech person, so the details are outside my wheelhouse, but from a business perspective it seems to me that there are some juicy opportunities for talented entrepreneurs. Full disclosure: I have no idea if Mamba is Russian-owned, so any reference to that site is based on what others have posted about it.

To continue: I don't know how many Russian websites that were formerly used widely in Ukraine are currently banned, but any which are will likely continue to be banned for a long time. Even after the war ends, the relationship between the two countries will be in the toilet, likely for decades. That means any good or service from Russia that was formerly popular in Ukraine will be ripe for replacement by a non-Russian alternative. Even if that new good or service is more expensive, or not as convenient, or even if it's a total clone, it will have a competitive advantage in the Ukrainian marketplace simply by virtue of the fact that it's not from Russia.

Also, I'm guessing Ukrainian authorities won't give two shits about any Russian IP, patent, or copyright protection. That means (IMO) someone in Ukraine could blatantly copy the code, design, and other elements of Russian software and sites and use them in Ukraine without having to worry. In fact, the same might prove true in other European countries that are pissed at Russia, like Poland and the Baltics.

And if the Russian company makes a fuss, and sends some kind of a "cease and desist" notice, so what? Give them a Snake Island "go fuck yourself" salute, or just say it's part of the reparations that are due. The only thing I'd pay attention to is if the govt of your home country (Ukr, Pol, etc.) raised some type of issue. Otherwise, I don't think anyone is going to lift a finger to protect the "rights" of Russian companies.

If I was younger, and more technically inclined, I might be tempted to dip a toe in such a pond. For those of you with the appropriate skillset and knowledge of the local market, this could be a gold mine. As always, do your own homework and proceed at your own risk. And, for anyone who does take the plunge, Good Luck!

Just read the first Report on everyday Life in Kyiv from a reporter on the ground there.

[URL]https://www.standard.co.uk/insider/kyiv-ukraine-war-new-normal-russia-b998810.html[/URL]

"Postcard from Kyiv: tulips blooming, wine bars re-opening and people starting to return.

After months of misery, Ukraine's capital is discovering its 'new normal."

American Choppers Bar seems to be the Place to see and be seen at present.

"There is a trickle of tourists. At the train station this week I met Matthew Sample a 71-year-old English retiree from Hungerford who had just arrived on a train from Poland and was visiting Kyiv for fun.

"I guess I'm a war tourist" he told me with a laugh. "But I don't want to go anywhere where there are no good bars open. " Sounds like he's looking for more than a Stiff Drink!

The US Embassy is due to open end of the Month, The British Embassy is now open.

Think it is time to change thread name here to accepted international spelling. Kiev has some bad connotations. Maybe regulars can weigh in and ask Admin to do this.

[QUOTE=Ringudor;2695205]Ukrainian girls will not use VPN, then its the same.[/QUOTE]Most of the young Ukrainian girls I know already use VPNs. They need it to access many Russian language websites.

[QUOTE=YummyPL;2696335]Most of the young Ukrainian girls I know already use VPNs. They need it to access many Russian language websites.[/QUOTE]It's not as easy as you think. I was only traveling in Lviv. I was advised not to go to Kyiv. Not because of the danger, but because of the many passport controls and still very limited options (compared to Lviv).

VPN is of course possible. But Mamba also records the geo data. With my phone card from Poland, I was always located in Poland. With VPN from the USA I was in America for my Mamba account. This could only be changed to Ukraine as the location in the paid account. VPN is therefore not enough. The girls in Ukraine, in addition to VPN, also need to set up a paid account. But probably only professionals will pay. No amateurs.

Mamba can also still be reached via other domains in Ukraine. Without a VPN. With identical database. But no longer via the Mamba main page. I hope, however, that this will not remain the case forever. Because many mamba girls are otherwise lost.

[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2693968]It definitely sounds a whole better than being gang raped by Russian soldiers. Not to mention, having to be one of millions rushing to flea to the United States / British side before the arrival of the Russian Mongol army.

An American cigarette butt was likely better than a fresh Soviet crap cigarette.[/QUOTE]Thanks for the link but not your comments. Full disclosure: I am the most anti cigarette poster on the site. It is a revolting addiction but an interesting one.

When the Soviet Union imploded, Big Tobacco bought up the Soviet tobacco firm to remove the competition; much the same happened with Cola companies, cola being all sugar and marketing. Hitler's Nazis actually invented Fanta (the Fantastic Cola Company), as sugar and Coca Cola, the former sponsor of the Hitler Youth, was no longer available.

Your idea that American, South African etc cigarettes are best is down to marketing "It's Toasted".

Good on that British OAP to go to Kiev (non Nazi spelling) to get his rocks off. Not sure how he would get on if disputes arise.

For anyone making a small fortune in such a corrupt and lawless country, begin with a big fortune. That way, you might have something left. Factor that in.

[QUOTE=Misterxxx;2697577]It's not as easy as you think. I was only traveling in Lviv. I was advised not to go to Kyiv. Not because of the danger, but because of the many passport controls and still very limited options (compared to Lviv).

VPN is of course possible. But Mamba also records the geo data. With my phone card from Poland, I was always located in Poland. With VPN from the USA I was in America for my Mamba account. This could only be changed to Ukraine as the location in the paid account. VPN is therefore not enough. The girls in Ukraine, in addition to VPN, also need to set up a paid account. But probably only professionals will pay. No amateurs.

Mamba can also still be reached via other domains in Ukraine. Without a VPN. With identical database. But no longer via the Mamba main page. I hope, however, that this will not remain the case forever. Because many mamba girls are otherwise lost.[/QUOTE]I sent several messages to some heart-breaking beautiful girls (Yulia 19, Kiss 21, 22 etc.) in Kyiv in the last 24 hours, although they didn't reply a word, but I can see they've read it. Like with WhatsApp, there are two blue ticks. Because they are so beautiful that I don't think they know VPN or Geo data stuff at all. I highly doubt that Mamba is completely forbidden in Kyiv. I hope someone in Kyiv can confirm my guess.

[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2697610]Thanks for the link but not your comments. Full disclosure: I am the most anti cigarette poster on the site. It is a revolting addiction but an interesting one.

When the Soviet Union imploded, Big Tobacco bought up the Soviet tobacco firm to remove the competition; much the same happened with Cola companies, cola being all sugar and marketing. Hitler's Nazis actually invented Fanta (the Fantastic Cola Company), as sugar and Coca Cola, the former sponsor of the Hitler Youth, was no longer available.

Your idea that American, South African etc cigarettes are best is down to marketing "It's Toasted".

Good on that British OAP to go to Kiev (non Nazi spelling) to get his rocks off. Not sure how he would get on if disputes arise.

For anyone making a small fortune in such a corrupt and lawless country, begin with a big fortune. That way, you might have something left. Factor that in.[/QUOTE]The mongering environment in any country is determined mostly by economic factors. One thing that's likely to be true in post-war Ukraine is that there will be a shitload of money sloshing around as reconstruction funds pour into the country. That, and the fact that Ukrainian women will have more options for travel and relocation throughout Europe, raises the distinct possibility that low-cost mongering in Ukraine might be a thing of the past. This won't be evenly distributed, of course, as the bulk of the money will initially flow to, or through, areas like Kyiv, Lviv, and (if successfully liberated) Crimea.

The situation in Russia will be vastly different as it's likely to be under sanctions (restricting inflows), reparations (increasing outflows), or a combination of both, for decades to come. Whether Putin lives, dies, stays in office, or gets removed, that will only affect things at the margin. In the big picture sense, Russia's economy will be a basket case for years to come. That means any woman who wasn't able to escape those circumstances may be forced to turn to prostitution to feed herself or her family. Unfortunately (for her), since there will be significantly less money sloshing around, mongering in Russia is likely to be dirt-cheap. If you go, bring plenty of cigarettes since they'll probably be worth more than the ruble.

[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2697734]The mongering environment in any country is determined mostly by economic factors.[/QUOTE]I am going to take exception. Economics probably is a factor in pricing but a country's GDP does not always correlate to the cost of a lay. Ukraine is relatively poor yet from what I have read it is costly to pay for a sex buddy. Korea has more game than any place I have ever seen yet it is ranked the 11th richest country. There, culture is a big factor.

[QUOTE=HessenStud;2697672]I sent several messages to some heart-breaking beautiful girls (Yulia 19, Kiss 21, 22 etc.) in Kyiv in the last 24 hours, although they didn't reply a word, but I can see they've read it. Like with WhatsApp, there are two blue ticks. Because they are so beautiful that I don't think they know VPN or Geo data stuff at all. I highly doubt that Mamba is completely forbidden in Kyiv. I hope someone in Kyiv can confirm my guess.[/QUOTE]Despite the warning, I had actually planned to take the train from Lviv to Kyiv. But my night train was 9 hours late. Instead of arriving in the early hours of the morning, only arriving in the evening. So I dropped that plan. Because on the way back I could not have afforded such a delay. There was not enough time.

But I was told from Kyiv that it is currently a city of men. A lot of men, few girls. Maybe there are enough men willing to pay high prices. And that's why your acquaintances didn't answer. Lviv, on the other hand, is more a city of girls. More women than men from my own experience.

In Lviv, restaurants close around 21:00 in the evening. In Kyiv, if nothing has changed in the last few days, already around 18:00. Supermarkets and other shops as well. An afterlife or life in the early evening is therefore not possible. Girls must be back home before lockdown or stay overnight. In addition, there are controls everywhere in Kyiv. It's too much even for my Ukrainian friends. I wasn't even checked in Lviv.

I don't know if Mamba is completely blocked. The page could not be landed via the stationary Internet. Not even via my Lifecell card / mobile. I tried in Lviv and on the way to Lviv to the border. Strangely, however, the Mamba database on love. Ru worked. Also from Ukraine. It's the same site, but with a different domain. Just like Mamba uses many different domains with the same database. Perhaps one could list a collection of mamba domains that are still working here.

[QUOTE=Misterxxx;2698014]Despite the warning, I had actually planned to take the train from Lviv to Kyiv. But my night train was 9 hours late. Instead of arriving in the early hours of the morning, only arriving in the evening. So I dropped that plan. Because on the way back I could not have afforded such a delay. There was not enough time.

But I was told from Kyiv that it is currently a city of men. A lot of men, few girls. Maybe there are enough men willing to pay high prices. And that's why your acquaintances didn't answer. Lviv, on the other hand, is more a city of girls. More women than men from my own experience.

In Lviv, restaurants close around 21:00 in the evening. In Kyiv, if nothing has changed in the last few days, already around 18:00. Supermarkets and other shops as well. An afterlife or life in the early evening is therefore not possible. Girls must be back home before lockdown or stay overnight. In addition, there are controls everywhere in Kyiv. It's too much even for my Ukrainian friends. I wasn't even checked in Lviv.

I don't know if Mamba is completely blocked. The page could not be landed via the stationary Internet. Not even via my Lifecell card / mobile. I tried in Lviv and on the way to Lviv to the border. Strangely, however, the Mamba database on love. Ru worked. Also from Ukraine. It's the same site, but with a different domain. Just like Mamba uses many different domains with the same database. Perhaps one could list a collection of mamba domains that are still working here.[/QUOTE]This is a little crazy, but to each his own. You must really love Kiev if you are going there in the middle of a war.

[QUOTE=Misterxxx;2698014]Despite the warning, I had actually planned to take the train from Lviv to Kyiv. But my night train was 9 hours late. Instead of arriving in the early hours of the morning, only arriving in the evening. So I dropped that plan. Because on the way back I could not have afforded such a delay. There was not enough time.

But I was told from Kyiv that it is currently a city of men. A lot of men, few girls. Maybe there are enough men willing to pay high prices. And that's why your acquaintances didn't answer. Lviv, on the other hand, is more a city of girls. More women than men from my own experience.

In Lviv, restaurants close around 21:00 in the evening. In Kyiv, if nothing has changed in the last few days, already around 18:00. Supermarkets and other shops as well. An afterlife or life in the early evening is therefore not possible. Girls must be back home before lockdown or stay overnight. In addition, there are controls everywhere in Kyiv. It's too much even for my Ukrainian friends. I wasn't even checked in Lviv.

I don't know if Mamba is completely blocked. The page could not be landed via the stationary Internet. Not even via my Lifecell card / mobile. I tried in Lviv and on the way to Lviv to the border. Strangely, however, the Mamba database on love. Ru worked. Also from Ukraine. It's the same site, but with a different domain. Just like Mamba uses many different domains with the same database. Perhaps one could list a collection of mamba domains that are still working here.[/QUOTE]I been in Kiev for 1 week now. There are air alarm every day. More and more thing open up. Mamba only work with vpn but I got no feedback. I think many of the girls left to other countries or places in Ukraine. Yes many men here. Much military in the streets.

[QUOTE=Misterxxx;2698014]Despite the warning, I had actually planned to take the train from Lviv to Kyiv. But my night train was 9 hours late. Instead of arriving in the early hours of the morning, only arriving in the evening. So I dropped that plan. Because on the way back I could not have afforded such a delay. There was not enough time.

But I was told from Kyiv that it is currently a city of men. A lot of men, few girls. Maybe there are enough men willing to pay high prices. And that's why your acquaintances didn't answer. Lviv, on the other hand, is more a city of girls. More women than men from my own experience.

In Lviv, restaurants close around 21:00 in the evening. In Kyiv, if nothing has changed in the last few days, already around 18:00. Supermarkets and other shops as well. An afterlife or life in the early evening is therefore not possible. Girls must be back home before lockdown or stay overnight. In addition, there are controls everywhere in Kyiv. It's too much even for my Ukrainian friends. I wasn't even checked in Lviv.

I don't know if Mamba is completely blocked. The page could not be landed via the stationary Internet. Not even via my Lifecell card / mobile. I tried in Lviv and on the way to Lviv to the border. Strangely, however, the Mamba database on love. Ru worked. Also from Ukraine. It's the same site, but with a different domain. Just like Mamba uses many different domains with the same database. Perhaps one could list a collection of mamba domains that are still working here.[/QUOTE]By the way curfew now start at 23:00 in Kiev. And you can be at restaurant till between 20:00-21:00 dependent on the place. Difficult to find gasoline.

[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2697734]

That, and the fact that Ukrainian women will have more options for travel and relocation throughout Europe, raises the distinct possibility that low-cost mongering in Ukraine might be a thing of the past. This won't be evenly distributed, of course, as the bulk of the money will initially flow to, or through, areas like Kyiv, Lviv, and (if successfully liberated) Crimea.

That means any woman who wasn't able to escape those circumstances may be forced to turn to prostitution to feed herself or her family. Unfortunately (for her), since there will be significantly less money sloshing around, mongering in Russia is likely to be dirt-cheap. If you go, bring plenty of cigarettes since they'll probably be worth more than the ruble.[/QUOTE]I have spent time in both these countries so my two cents on your comments. Crimea to be separated from Russia is going to be very unlikely and there are lot of reasons for this but this is not forum to discuss that. Current price levels for mongering are still holding the same as discussed with my source in St P and Moscow but will have to wait and watch for next few months and further ahead to see any anomalies in the trend.

[QUOTE=TheRose;2697959]I am going to take exception. Economics probably is a factor in pricing but a country's GDP does not always correlate to the cost of a lay. Ukraine is relatively poor yet from what I have read it is costly to pay for a sex buddy. Korea has more game than any place I have ever seen yet it is ranked the 11th richest country. There, culture is a big factor.[/QUOTE]Cultural factors are obviously important, pertinent, and, in some countries, huge. But exploring those factors was beyond the scope of my post as I was making a more simple and direct comparison between post-war Ukraine and Russia. In that context, economic factors are likely to prove most relevant.

[QUOTE=TheRose;2697959]I am going to take exception. Economics probably is a factor in pricing but a country's GDP does not always correlate to the cost of a lay. Ukraine is relatively poor yet from what I have read it is costly to pay for a sex buddy. Korea has more game than any place I have ever seen yet it is ranked the 11th richest country. There, culture is a big factor.[/QUOTE]I think Jmsuttr's comment is a generalized statement that holds some truth. "The mongering environment in any country is determined mostly by economic factors."

The developing countries in the Southern hemisphere and close to the equator are relatively inexpensive. Of course, culture, legality and geography factor in as well. Ukraine is likely more pricey because of Germans, Russians and other foreigners proximate to the country.

Korea is an interesting cultural case. A lot of girls in USA Massage parlors are Korean. In Germany, it might be hard to find a hot German provider, but the culture, legality and geography make it easy to find a foreign resident provider at a decent price. This situation is replicated in parts of Western Europe.

[QUOTE=CallSignRomeo;2698152]I have spent time in both these countries so my two cents on your comments. Crimea to be separated from Russia is going to be very unlikely and there are lot of reasons for this but this is not forum to discuss that. Current price levels for mongering are still holding the same as discussed with my source in St P and Moscow but will have to wait and watch for next few months and further ahead to see any anomalies in the trend.[/QUOTE]I don't have a crystal ball, but there are a lot of things that have happened in this war that have defied "expert" prediction. So, while Crimea being reclaimed is certainly a stretch, I'd simply note that Ukrainian govt officials have started moving the goalposts of what victory would entail and are now talking about taking back all Russian-held Ukrainian territory.

Whether it will happen or not, who knows? But Russia is currently losing this war on the battlefield, which defied expectation. So anyone who thinks they can predict what the practical ramifications will be of a Russian defeat, and Ukrainian victory, is pretty much just selling a basket of speculation.

But the situation in Crimea wasn't the central point of my post. Rather it was to point out the likely differences in economic conditions between post-war Russia and Ukraine. And, with all due respect to your sources, current mongering conditions may be radically altered after the war.

[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2698181] But Russia is currently losing this war on the battlefield, which defied expectation. .[/QUOTE]People who are familiar with their own country's special ops personnel who were training arming and supplying weapons to Ukraine military saw this coming for Russia from "miles away".

[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2698181]I don't have a crystal ball, but there are a lot of things that have happened in this war that have defied "expert" prediction. So, while Crimea being reclaimed is certainly a stretch, I'd simply note that Ukrainian govt officials have started moving the goalposts of what victory would entail and are now talking about taking back all Russian-held Ukrainian territory.

Whether it will happen or not, who knows? But Russia is currently losing this war on the battlefield, which defied expectation. So anyone who thinks they can predict what the practical ramifications will be of a Russian defeat, and Ukrainian victory, is pretty much just selling a basket of speculation.

But the situation in Crimea wasn't the central point of my post. Rather it was to point out the likely differences in economic conditions between post-war Russia and Ukraine. And, with all due respect to your sources, current mongering conditions may be radically altered after the war.[/QUOTE]It's difficult to guess the post war environment. If things continue as they are and Russia suffers a defeat, plus the effects of the sanctions, we can expect their economy to completely tank and (hopefully) the price of mongering to drop. Bear in mind that westerners might not be safe or popular in Russia in that situation. If Ukraine prevails, there may be a period after the war when prices are low, but there will be substantial investment from the EU and USA to rebuild Ukraine. That will probably create some inflation and drive up mongering rates.

[QUOTE=Doc8008;2698523]It's difficult to guess the post war environment. If things continue as they are and Russia suffers a defeat, plus the effects of the sanctions, we can expect their economy to completely tank and (hopefully) the price of mongering to drop. Bear in mind that westerners might not be safe or popular in Russia in that situation.[/QUOTE]Bear in mind, that also the United States and NATO countries are fighting a proxy war. Russia is directly on the other side. Unlike other proxy wars, this one is very close to home both literally and figuratively speaking.

Who knows how Westerners will be accepted in Russia when the war is over.

There is a slight chance that there is a post-dictator liberation of sexual mores. You saw this phenomenon in Spain, Eastern Europe and the former Soviet Union itself in the 1990's.

[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2693941]As such, when the war comes to an end, places like Kyiv and Lviv should achieve relative normality pretty quickly. Obviously the areas brutalized by Russian troglodytes will recover more slowly, and the issue of returning refugees is a wild card that's hard to predict. But, wherever there's a lot of money circulating, sex workers are bound to flourish.

Russia, however, will be under sactions, reparations mandates (or both) for years or even decades. So the bleak post WW-I scenario you bring up is more likely to happen in Moscow and St. Petersburg. Except that the selection will probably be sparse, since any intelligent and attractive woman will do her best to leave a futureless country. But, for any monger who is able to get into Russia, it should be quite inexpensive. Forget money, as it'll probably have devolved into a barter economy. I'm guessing a roll of Western toilet paper will get you a roll in the hay.[/QUOTE]Lets see which economies will break before Russia as OIL moves over 200 a barrel on its way to much higher.

I don't think your prediction in Russia will be coming true anytime soon.

But maybe you will get a roll in the hay in USA UK or EU for a roll of toilet paper.

Wasn't the Ruble supposed to crash and burn? Lmao.

Check a chart on that lately?

A lot of money is going to Ukraine.

But where is it going? More money to destroy more of the country.

I am sure some major scandals will emerge and the money will be cut off.

But who knows.

By the way Crimea doesn't want to be liberated from Russia.

The biggest party in history happened when they separated from Ukraine.

[QUOTE=Bill1963;2698852]Lets see which economies will break before Russia as OIL moves over 200 a barrel on its way to much higher.

I don't think your prediction in Russia will be coming true anytime soon.

But maybe you will get a roll in the hay in USA UK or EU for a roll of toilet paper.

Wasn't the Ruble supposed to crash and burn? Lmao.

Check a chart on that lately?

A lot of money is going to Ukraine.

But where is it going? More money to destroy more of the country..[/QUOTE]Hmmm, let's see, your last (and only) contribution about the Russian-Ukrainian war was back in early March, at which time you made the devastatingly relevant and insightful observation that everything is 100% Biden's fault. And you thereafter graciously pronounced absolution for Obama and Trump, which I'm sure is a great relief to them both.

Of course, since your last appearance was March 4th, you might not realize how much scintillating and stimulating discussion you've missed. Before dipping your toe in again, did you happen to take some time to RTFF and catch up? I think not because, if you had, you'd have noticed at least three posts specifically pointing out why the ruble is rubble, why Russia's attempt to prop up the currency is full of smoke and mirrors, and why those efforts have a limited shelf-life.

[URL]http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4028-Stupid-Shit-in-Kyiv&p=2684104#post2684104[/URL]

[URL]http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4028-Stupid-Shit-in-Kyiv&p=2684464#post2684464[/URL]

[URL]http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4028-Stupid-Shit-in-Kyiv&p=2687561#post2687561[/URL]

In each of those discussions I post my sources, which include officials from within Russia. Feel free to post any sources you'd like in rebuttal.

About Crimea, I'm guessing you put about as much thought and research effort into that statement as you did for your musings about the ruble. Here's a little something to hopefully expand some of those little gray cells between your ears.

[URL]https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/05/ukraine-war-crimean-tatars-stalin-soviet-union/629824/[/URL]

As for $200 oil, you could have just Googled "Russia oil discount" and gotten a shitload of results as to why Russia is being forced to sell at significantly below market prices. But hey, I know doing web searches can be hard work, so here you go:

[URL]https://lmgtfy.app/#gsc.tab=0&gsc.q=russia%20oil%20discount[/URL]

Any questions? BTW, when should we look for your next post? Sometime within the next two months?

[QUOTE=Bill1963;2698852]Lets see which economies will break before Russia as OIL moves over 200 a barrel on its way to much higher.

I don't think your prediction in Russia will be coming true anytime soon.

But maybe you will get a roll in the hay in USA UK or EU for a roll of toilet paper.

Wasn't the Ruble supposed to crash and burn? Lmao.

Check a chart on that lately?[/QUOTE]It's hard to tell if you want to have a serious discussion. The Russian Ruble rate is essentially being fixed. It's not really being used in international markets. Putin's demand that international clients pay in Rubles is just hot air. A foreign buyer pays a Russian gas or oil company foreign currency and then the Russian company is mandated to buy Rubles at the "official" rate.

You don't have to have a long history with foreign exchange around the world to know countries without free, open economies routinely fix or peg the exchange rate of their currency. With the exception of small trading countries (think Hong Kong), it's not realistic or sustainable. A black market for currency usually develops within the country. I suspect the penalties for trading Rubles for Dollars, Euros, etc. Are currently very draconian.

If this all sounds familiar to anyone who has traveled to the old communist regimes, it's because that's was exactly what was going on with the currencies.

"Don't you dare trade your Rubles babushka. They are very, very valuable. Comrade Putin says so."

[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2699164]"Don't you dare trade your Rubles babushka. They are very, very valuable. Comrade Putin says so."[/QUOTE]LOL, well put.

[URL]https://mobile.twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1530820966003113984[/URL]

May the next Anniversary Day find you in a place of peace, recovery, and an optimistic view toward a brighter future.

Any fellow mongers in Kyiv? I have been arranging dates and have met some very beautiful women. I am still seeing the woman I was taking care of but I desire variety now that I have touched down. Lviv has been a wonderful city for me also. The women I met are just grateful for anything they receive and I am more than happy to provide.

[QUOTE=HulaHoops;2702644]Any fellow mongers in Kyiv? I have been arranging dates and have met some very beautiful women. I am still seeing the woman I was taking care of but I desire variety now that I have touched down. Lviv has been a wonderful city for me also. The women I met are just grateful for anything they receive and I am more than happy to provide.[/QUOTE]I am in Kiev and been here for over 1 month now.

Are you in Kiev too?

[QUOTE=Nero6;2703187]I am in Kiev and been here for over 1 month now.

Are you in Kiev too?[/QUOTE]LOL Nero. Don't you know HH has been fiddling while the Ukraine burned.

[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2699164]It's hard to tell if you want to have a serious discussion. The Russian Ruble rate is essentially being fixed. It's not really being used in international markets. Putin's demand that international clients pay in Rubles is just hot air. A foreign buyer pays a Russian gas or oil company foreign currency and then the Russian company is mandated to buy Rubles at the "official" rate.

You don't have to have a long history with foreign exchange around the world to know countries without free, open economies routinely fix or peg the exchange rate of their currency. With the exception of small trading countries (think Hong Kong), it's not realistic or sustainable. A black market for currency usually develops within the country. I suspect the penalties for trading Rubles for Dollars, Euros, etc. Are currently very draconian.[/QUOTE]Well so far you are wrong and Russia is far from breaking and ruble-yuan is freely trading more than you want to admit.

China and India will buy all oil from Russia in rubles gold yuan what ever.

The bottom line is Russia is not losing at all and the oil is moving as its the most important commodity after food.

The word is by late summer Russia will have control of all Ukrainian ports so it will be interesting what happens on the movement of grains.

Lets see how things are by summer.

Is Russia gaining more area (as they currently are) or losing area.

I wish this was over tomorrow, but I think this will go on until the west can't handle the upward price of oil.

Its going well over 200 a barrel this coming year and probably into the 300's by 2024.

Lets see if the American public will support this war with 10,00 a gallon gasoline.

Can't imagine what price it will be in Europe.

Inflation will be through the roof around the world.

[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2698985]Hmmm, let's see, your last (and only) contribution about the Russian-Ukrainian war was back in early March, at which time you made the devastatingly relevant and insightful observation that everything is 100% Biden's fault. And you thereafter graciously pronounced absolution for Obama and Trump, which I'm sure is a great relief to them both.

Of course, since your last appearance was March 4th, you might not realize how much scintillating and stimulating discussion you've missed. Before dipping your toe in again, did you happen to take some time to RTFF and catch up? I think not because, if you had, you'd have noticed at least three posts specifically pointing out why the ruble is rubble, why Russia's attempt to prop up the currency is full of smoke and mirrors, and why those efforts have a limited shelf-life.[/QUOTE]The ruble isn't rubble.

LOL you use the Atlantic LMAO as a source.

Blah blah blah.

Nice little propaganda about discounts LOL.

Lets see if if Russia has lost control of area by late summer or gained.

You can bark all you want, but that will tell the real truth.

Hopefully the war ends soon, but I have a feeling that little corrupt Ukrainian president is too busy asking for donations to wash in Cayman and swiss banks to stop.

The west will buckle before Russia.

Too much money flowing into the coffers, and the west lives and dies on the price of oil.

Lets see what the mood is when oil shoots over 200 a barrel by next year on its way to much much higher.

[QUOTE=Bill1963;2704194]The ruble isn't rubble.

LOL you use the Atlantic LMAO as a source.

Blah blah blah.

Nice little propaganda about discounts LOL.

Lets see if if Russia has lost control of area by late summer or gained.

You can bark all you want, but that will tell the real truth.

Hopefully the war ends soon, but I have a feeling that little corrupt Ukrainian president is too busy asking for donations to wash in Cayman and swiss banks to stop.[/QUOTE]You literally ignored all the sources I posted about the ruble = rubble issue, while criticizing the one source I provided that had absolutely nothing (zero, zip, nada) to do with the ruble.

Anyone can look down the page a few posts and see that the Atlantic article was about Crimean Tatars, and the problems they pose for Putin. That's the only topic of that article, nothing more. Meanwhile, the numerous financial sources you specifically and consciously chose to ignore are contained in this section of my post (conveniently edited out of your response):

"three posts specifically pointing out why the ruble is rubble, why Russia's attempt to prop up the currency is full of smoke and mirrors, and why those efforts have a limited shelf-life.

[URL]http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4028-Stupid-Shit-in-Kyiv&p=2684104#post2684104[/URL]

[URL]http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4028-Stupid-Shit-in-Kyiv&p=2684464#post2684464[/URL]

[URL]http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4028-Stupid-Shit-in-Kyiv&p=2687561#post2687561[/URL]

In each of those discussions I post my sources, which include officials from within Russia. Feel free to post any sources you'd like in rebuttal".

Four separate and diverse sources, all studiously avoided and completely unrebutted by you. In fact, given the tendencies you've displayed (ignore what's relevant and attack everything else), it's a veritable certainty that you haven't bothered to look at any of them. A rare combination of both intellectual dishonesty AND laziness, congratulations on achieving a new low in the forum!

If there's any LMAO chortling going on, it's the sound of everyone else in the forum laughing as they witness how your non-rebuttals are epic failures, as well as how utterly pathetic they are.

[QUOTE=Bill1963;2704190]China and India will buy all oil from Russia in rubles gold yuan what ever.[/QUOTE]Exactly, but the medium of exchange is not critical. You have to look at the totality of the economic exchange.

First, are the Russians discounting the oil? If so, that would effectively be a devaluation.

Second and most importantly, are China and India requiring the Russians to acquire goods from them. If so, what is the fair value of that exchange?

I don't want to get into the economic weeds on this because some of us have tried to explain this to limited avail. You can be given some slack because unknowledgeable business journalists make similar declarations about gold, bitcoin, etc. As new mediums of exchange. Let's make it simple you can't eat, drink, drive or generate direct cash income from holding gold or bitcoin.

What makes the Dollar attractive is that foreign nations like investing the United States. Like it or not, they like holding money in USA Treasuries. Trust me, China in particular doesn't want Russia buying there government debt or buying other Chinese assets. So some other type of exchange likely has to be worked out.

[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2704808]Exactly, but the medium of exchange is not critical. You have to look at the totality of the economic exchange.[/QUOTE]Money is a tool since, as you pointed out, you can't eat it, drink it, or otherwise use it directly. It's a medium of exchange that must be converted into goods and services one actually needs and wants. The easier the process, and the lower the transaction costs, the more people will be willing to use and hold that currency.

Within any individual country, the national systems ensure the free flow of their own currency. And the conversion cost, especially for cash transactions, is usually minimal or zero. That changes when crossing borders (or currency unions), and individual currency attributes become more important.

[QUOTE]First, are the Russians discounting the oil? If so, that would effectively be a devaluation.

Second and most importantly, are China and India requiring the Russians to acquire goods from them. If so, what is the fair value of that exchange?[/QUOTE]Any monetary transaction with Russia by China, India, or other, will ultimately be converted to (and mostly held in) rubles. That's because the capital controls regime imposed by Russia requires that companies convert at least 80% of their foreign exchange into rubles. That regime can be adjusted and tweaked, but Russian companies must follow Kremlin directives.

[URL]https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/russia-capital-controls-sanctions-ukraine-b2070433.html[/URL]

In the sense of flow, or movement, the combination of external sanctions and internal capital controls means that rubles flow into Russia more easily than they can flow out. If you think in terms of hydraulics, blocking or restricting the flow of fluid within a system generally has the effect of increasing pressure throughout that system. That increased pressure, if not alleviated, will likely result in damage somewhere in the system. And ruble outflows are very definitely being impacted by sanctions-caused bottlenecks and blockages.

I shy away from predictions, and I'm not an expert in economics or currency matters, but it doesn't take an expert to observe that these are abnormal times and the ruble is experiencing abnormal pressures. Some of that pressure could be alleviated if other countries were willing to stockpile rubles as part of their own foreign currency reserves. But I've seen no indication of that happening, not even with China and India.

As far as the dollar, gold, or crypto are concerned, that's better suited for a separate discussion and beyond the scope of this post. I just wanted to point out some of the unusual factors currently affecting the ruble. And I'm also keeping an eye out for signs of stress in Russia's economy and financial system. Will there be a leak or a blowout? And, if so, where and when? If you think about the hydraulic systems analogy, it's hard to pinpoint the danger areas before the problem manifests itself.

Also, FWIW, Central Bank Head Elvira Nabiullina is probably the smartest and most effective apparatchik in the Russian government. She's reportedly tried to resign several times, but Putin has refused to allow it. How long can she keep the system running in adverse conditions? That's a tough one to answer, and only time will tell.

[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2704915]gold, or crypto are concerned, that's better suited for a separate discussion and beyond the scope of this post...[/QUOTE]Neither Gold nor Crypto have the liquidity or market cap to enable Russian trade on the levels it was before they invaded and started this war with Ukraine.

[QUOTE=Nero6;2703187]I am in Kiev and been here for over 1 month now.

Are you in Kiev too?[/QUOTE]Anyone considering discretionary travel to Ukraine should guard against the "linear thinking" fallacy. Just because an area hasn't been attacked for a while doesn't mean anything. Russia's ground forces aren't winning, but neither are they losing to the point where hostilities are close to an end.

The situation in Eastern Ukraine is currently best described as a stalemate, with back-and-forth movement by both sides. That means, as long as hostilities continue, Russia can strike out at any area in Ukraine by dropping bombs or launching missiles. Kyiv was just hit and Lviv is still a target, as is any city for which Russia can claim a (real or concocted) military justification for launching an attack.

For anyone who thinks they're in a "safe" area, please consider that you're placing your faith (and life) in the idea that Putin wouldn't strike a purely civilian district. And you're also hoping that Russia's missiles and bombs don't go astray. As with all things in life, there's a risk-benefit analysis to consider. I'm not sure a mongering vacation tips the scales very much.

Everyone can decide for themselves, of course, but the point of this post is simply to observe that it's a bit too early to sound the "all clear" signal in Ukraine. Also consider that, if Putin's army continues to struggle and be stymied on the ground, that could make air strikes even MORE likely, as Ukraine might be able to stop some missiles and bombs, but they can't stop them all.

Some have tried to predict a timeline for the war's end, but that's a fruitless exercise with so many variables at play. Here's just one example of an unpredictable variable: There are reports circulating that Russia is trying to create a food and refugee crisis, most likely in Africa, in order to ramp up pressure on European governments. And some reports (unconfirmed, as yet) say that Putin has even dispatched teams of operatives to stir things up in certain African countries.

I have no idea what the next few weeks or months will bring, but rather I'm making the point that the situation is still volatile, and that Putin can probably hold out longer than many would expect. And also that, the worse things get for Russia, the more the risk they'll resort to desperate measures.

Here's hoping for everyone's safety and for Ukraine's continued success!

[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2705156]Anyone considering discretionary travel to Ukraine should guard against the "linear thinking" fallacy. Just because an area hasn't been attacked for a while doesn't mean anything. Russia's ground forces aren't winning, but neither are they losing to the point where hostilities are close to an end.

The situation in Eastern Ukraine is currently best described as a stalemate, with back-and-forth movement by both sides. That means, as long as hostilities continue, Russia can strike out at any area in Ukraine by dropping bombs or launching missiles. Kyiv was just hit and Lviv is still a target, as is any city for which Russia can claim a (real or concocted) military justification for launching an attack.

For anyone who thinks they're in a "safe" area, please consider that you're placing your faith (and life) in the idea that Putin wouldn't strike a purely civilian district. And you're also hoping that Russia's missiles and bombs don't go astray. As with all things in life, there's a risk-benefit analysis to consider. I'm not sure a mongering vacation tips the scales very much.

Everyone can decide for themselves, of course, but the point of this post is simply to observe that it's a bit too early to sound the "all clear" signal in Ukraine. Also consider that, if Putin's army continues to struggle and be stymied on the ground, that could make air strikes even MORE likely, as Ukraine might be able to stop some missiles and bombs, but they can't stop them all.

Some have tried to predict a timeline for the war's end, but that's a fruitless exercise with so many variables at play. Here's just one example of an unpredictable variable: There are reports circulating that Russia is trying to create a food and refugee crisis, most likely in Africa, in order to ramp up pressure on European governments. And some reports (unconfirmed, as yet) say that Putin has even dispatched teams of operatives to stir things up in certain African countries.

I have no idea what the next few weeks or months will bring, but rather I'm making the point that the situation is still volatile, and that Putin can probably hold out longer than many would expect. And also that, the worse things get for Russia, the more the risk they'll resort to desperate measures.

Here's hoping for everyone's safety and for Ukraine's continued success![/QUOTE]You are right in all you say. I just respond to a post a other member wrote here. I'am still in Kiev if other members are here in Kiev and want to have a talk. I also hope Ukraine will continued success.

[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2705156]Anyone considering discretionary travel to Ukraine should guard against the "linear thinking" fallacy. Just because an area hasn't been attacked for a while doesn't mean anything. Russia's ground forces aren't winning, but neither are they losing to the point where hostilities are close to an end.

The situation in Eastern Ukraine is currently best described as a stalemate, with back-and-forth movement by both sides. That means, as long as hostilities continue, Russia can strike out at any area in Ukraine by dropping bombs or launching missiles. Kyiv was just hit and Lviv is still a target, as is any city for which Russia can claim a (real or concocted) military justification for launching an attack.

For anyone who thinks they're in a "safe" area, please consider that you're placing your faith (and life) in the idea that Putin wouldn't strike a purely civilian district. And you're also hoping that Russia's missiles and bombs don't go astray. As with all things in life, there's a risk-benefit analysis to consider. I'm not sure a mongering vacation tips the scales very much.

Everyone can decide for themselves, of course, but the point of this post is simply to observe that it's a bit too early to sound the "all clear" signal in Ukraine. Also consider that, if Putin's army continues to struggle and be stymied on the ground, that could make air strikes even MORE likely, as Ukraine might be able to stop some missiles and bombs, but they can't stop them all.

Some have tried to predict a timeline for the war's end, but that's a fruitless exercise with so many variables at play. Here's just one example of an unpredictable variable: There are reports circulating that Russia is trying to create a food and refugee crisis, most likely in Africa, in order to ramp up pressure on European governments. And some reports (unconfirmed, as yet) say that Putin has even dispatched teams of operatives to stir things up in certain African countries.

I have no idea what the next few weeks or months will bring, but rather I'm making the point that the situation is still volatile, and that Putin can probably hold out longer than many would expect. And also that, the worse things get for Russia, the more the risk they'll resort to desperate measures.

Here's hoping for everyone's safety and for Ukraine's continued success![/QUOTE]I was a lurker for a long time and finally created an account just to thank you for writing such a thoughtful comment. It's so well put and in a nice style, I love it. As for myself, I don't have yet anything to share since I haven't been in Ukraine in half a year. I cancelled my flight two days before the departure, which was supposed to be on the 18th of February. Thank you Luck.

[URL]https://globenewsbulletin.com/international/ukraine-moves-one-step-closer-to-eu-membership/[/URL]

It's just the first step, but it's a positive development as it gives Ukrainians hope that they're fighting for a better future, not just a return to the old status quo (or worse).

Also, for those who are quick to point out Ukraine's issues with corruption, that is something the EU specifically says must be addressed before membership is granted.

"'Good work has been done' by Ukraine, but more is needed, European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen said. Ukraine must make 'important' reforms on rule of law, oligarchs, human rights and tackling corruption, she added."

"Candidacy status is a significant step to joining the EU, however the whole process can take many years".

The current members must still vote, and I'm sure there will be many back room negotiation sessions, but the recent visit to Kyiv from the heads of Germany, France, Italy, and Romania (in which all expressed support for Ukraine in the EU) was a huge boost. And, as the article notes, it was significant that EU Commission President von der Leyen wore clothing in Ukraine's national colors as she made the announcement.

Congratulations to Ukraine!

[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2709747][URL]https://globenewsbulletin.com/international/ukraine-moves-one-step-closer-to-eu-membership/[/URL]

It's just the first step, but it's a positive development as it gives Ukrainians hope that they're fighting for a better future, not just a return to the old status quo (or worse).
![/QUOTE]Yeah, keep egging them on.

[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2709747][URL]https://globenewsbulletin.com/international/ukraine-moves-one-step-closer-to-eu-membership/[/URL]

It's just the first step, but it's a positive development as it gives Ukrainians hope that they're fighting for a better future, not just a return to the old status quo (or worse).

Also, for those who are quick to point out Ukraine's issues with corruption, that is something the EU specifically says must be addressed before membership is granted.

"'Good work has been done' by Ukraine, but more is needed, European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen said. Ukraine must make 'important' reforms on rule of law, oligarchs, human rights and tackling corruption, she added."

"Candidacy status is a significant step to joining the EU, however the whole process can take many years".

The current members must still vote, and I'm sure there will be many back room negotiation sessions, but the recent visit to Kyiv from the heads of Germany, France, Italy, and Romania (in which all expressed support for Ukraine in the EU) was a huge boost. And, as the article notes, it was significant that EU Commission President von der Leyen wore clothing in Ukraine's national colors as she made the announcement.

Congratulations to Ukraine![/QUOTE]Turkey had the status for 18 years. Has Turkey ever become a member of the EU?

[QUOTE=Misterxxx;2709850]Turkey had the status for 18 years. Has Turkey ever become a member of the EU?[/QUOTE]No and I don't see it happening with Erdogan leading Turkey. Turkey under Erdogan has become more autocratic. I think he has given up on the idea.

The European Union has certain democracy, freedom and anti-corruption standards for becoming a member. The Ukraine will have to meet these standards in order to finalize its membership.

[QUOTE=Misterxxx;2709850]Turkey had the status for 18 years. Has Turkey ever become a member of the EU?[/QUOTE]All this BS belongs in the Stupid Shit (SS) thread about SS Ukraine. Galician Ukraine is a basket case, even before Romania, Hungary and Poland take their cut. It has no hope of coming within an ass's roar (is that the correct expression) of meeting any of the criteria. The EU does not need another US invoked Bosnia. Too much Mafia.

The Israelis and Americans should stfu.

More to the point: how come these admittedly good looking women get premium price for their mutton? Ukrainians are noted for lying on their back and thinking of Bandera. And many Ben Franklins. Economics, the weird science.

[QUOTE=Riina;2709819]Yeah, keep egging them on.[/QUOTE]Or is it just sour grapes? With only a single sentence, it's hard to tell.

[QUOTE=Misterxxx;2709850]Turkey had the status for 18 years. Has Turkey ever become a member of the EU?[/QUOTE]But what about Turkey? I don't know. What about them? Turkey has their own issues with the EU that they need to work through. Not least of which is their history of antipathy with EU member Greece. And then there's the matter of Cyprus, which is still problematic.

Three nations were being considered for EU candidate status: Ukraine, Moldova, and Georgia. Two were recommended and one (Georgia) was not. The EU decides for itself who they believe should be granted candidate status. If Georgia, or Turkey, want admission to the EU then it's up to them to work out their issues to the satisfaction of the EU.

Obviously, that hasn't happened yet. But their issues have nothing to do with Ukraine. It's also true that Ukraine's unique position as a victim of war has provided a positive impetus to their candidacy. But the responsibility for that lies squarely on Putin. It's quite ironic that his attempts to keep Ukraine from looking westward have had the opposite effect.

[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2709865]All this BS belongs in the Stupid Shit (SS) thread about SS Ukraine. Galician Ukraine is a basket case, even before Romania, Hungary and Poland take their cut. It has no hope of coming within an ass's roar (is that the correct expression) of meeting any of the criteria. The EU does not need another US invoked Bosnia. Too much Mafia.

The Israelis and Americans should stfu.

More to the point: how come these admittedly good looking women get premium price for their mutton? Ukrainians are noted for lying on their back and thinking of Bandera. And many Ben Franklins. Economics, the weird science.[/QUOTE]If I had a dollar for every blown prediction, by so-called experts, about what "should" be happening with Ukraine, I'd have a boatload of dollars.

And that started with the outrageously bogus prediction by Russia that they would seize Kyiv in about 12 hours, and that Ukraine's govt would flee within 72 hours.

[URL]https://www.paudal.com/2022/06/18/ukrainian-defense-minister-about-documents-found-on-russian-officer-russia-thought-it-would-overpower-kiev-in-12-hours/[/URL]

And plenty in Europe went along, which is why so many sat on the sidelines rather than rush to help. But Ukraine has thrown it all back in the faces of the "experts" and continues to defy and exceed expectations.

Before Feb 24th, who would have thought Ukraine would be recommended for EU candidate status in less than 4 months time, and also be fully endorsed by Italy, Germany, France, and the EU Commission?

It's amusing to see how many were wrong about so much. And more amusing still to see how many will be proven wrong in the future.

[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2709865]All this BS The EU does not need another US invoked Bosnia. Too much Mafia.[/QUOTE]Slavic Muslims and Croat Catholics in Bosnia were saved from Genocide, mass killings, ethnic cleansing, by the intervention of The US and NATO in 1995. The EU stood by and did nothing for 3 years.

"At the other end of the country, a crew from ITN and I revealed a gulag of concentration camps for Muslim and Catholic inmates in August 1992, which had operated since May, where thousands were killed, tortured and raped.

In July 1995, three bloody years later, 8,000 men and boys were summarily executed within five days after the fall of the "safe area" of Srebrenica, the victims of this genocide delivered to their killers by the very powers and UN soldiers pledged to protect them."[URL]https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/apr/03/ukraine-matters-so-did-bosnia-30-years-ago-where-was-outcry-then[/URL].

No wonder the US is the most popular country in Bosnia, Kosovo, Albania, Croatia, and Russia is the most hated.

[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2710045]If I had a dollar for every blown prediction, by so-called experts, about what "should" be happening with Ukraine, I'd have a boatload of dollars.

And that started with the outrageously bogus prediction by Russia that they would seize Kyiv in about 12 hours, and that Ukraine's govt would flee within 72 hours.

[URL]https://www.paudal.com/2022/06/18/ukrainian-defense-minister-about-documents-found-on-russian-officer-russia-thought-it-would-overpower-kiev-in-12-hours/[/URL]

And plenty in Europe went along, which is why so many sat on the sidelines rather than rush to help. But Ukraine has thrown it all back in the faces of the "experts" and continues to defy and exceed expectations.

Before Feb 24th, who would have thought Ukraine would be recommended for EU candidate status in less than 4 months time, and also be fully endorsed by Italy, Germany, France, and the EU Commission?

It's amusing to see how many were wrong about so much. And more amusing still to see how many will be proven wrong in the future.[/QUOTE]Yes, but at what cost. Time will tell. They have definitely exceeded expectations, but they had a lot of help, especially at first, and the world should have helped. Now, I am not sure, as the previous poster wrote, Ukraine should focus on a small victory and live to fight another day.

If they push there luck, they will end up with very little, broke and flattened. Very tough decision.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2710169]Yes, but at what cost. Time will tell. They have definitely exceeded expectations, but they had a lot of help, especially at first, and the world should have helped. Now, I am not sure, as the previous poster wrote, Ukraine should focus on a small victory and live to fight another day.

If they push there luck, they will end up with very little, broke and flattened. Very tough decision.[/QUOTE]So I'm happy simply to congratulate Ukraine, wish them peace, health, and safety, and hope for a positive EU-accession process that turns out as a win-win for all (except Russia).

As for what Ukraine "should" do, I'll leave that for them to decide. And it's for every individual country to decide what cost-sharing they care to do. I would note that, especially for countries like Poland and the Baltics, this can be characterized as a "pay now or pay more later" scenario.

[URL]https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/wind-change-europe-path-eu-opens-ukraine-2022-06-23/[/URL]

Unanimous approval for EU candidate status! May this be a good first step toward a great future.

And congratulations to Moldova, as well!

[URL]https://us.yahoo.com/news/group-ukrainian-women-selling-nudes-100000631.html[/URL]

A group of Ukrainian women is selling their nudes to fundraise for the country's forces. They've raised over $700,000 in 3 months.

The Guardian is a rag.

The US destroyed Yugoslavia, along with the Vatican and Germany. US bombing of Yugoslavia was a war crime, one of countless the US has committed, unrelen ting Mon. This of bombing. Media stations, the Chinese Embassy and so on. /.

Croats: large Nazi element.

#Albania, Kosovo (the heart of Serbia_ Bosnia: gangster states hosting MEK and other US funded terrorist cults.

No one likes Americans unless they are being bribed.

Good on Ukrainian women (and men) making money by pimping themselves. Sticking to what they are good at.

[QUOTE=Jojosun;2710112]Slavic Muslims and Croat Catholics in Bosnia were saved from Genocide, mass killings, ethnic cleansing, by the intervention of The US and NATO in 1995. The EU stood by and did nothing for 3 years.

"At the other end of the country, a crew from ITN and I revealed a gulag of concentration camps for Muslim and Catholic inmates in August 1992, which had operated since May, where thousands were killed, tortured and raped.

In July 1995, three bloody years later, 8,000 men and boys were summarily executed within five days after the fall of the "safe area" of Srebrenica, the victims of this genocide delivered to their killers by the very powers and UN soldiers pledged to protect them."[URL]https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/apr/03/ukraine-matters-so-did-bosnia-30-years-ago-where-was-outcry-then[/URL].

No wonder the US is the most popular country in Bosnia, Kosovo, Albania, Croatia, and Russia is the most hated.[/QUOTE]

Or perhaps it's an attempt to send a petulant message to world leaders at the G-7 conference? No matter the reason, intentionally targeting civilian areas, or launching missiles with willful and callous disregard for civilian casualties, simply adds to the list of Putin's war crimes. I haven't seen any reporting in which Russia even pretends they were aiming at military targets.

[URL]https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/6/26/missile-hits-residential-building-in-ukraines-capital-kyiv[/URL]

FWIW, this latest attack highlights the point I made three weeks ago about Kyiv not yet being out of the woods.

[URL]http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?816-Kyiv&p=2705156&viewfull=1#post2705156[/URL]

If you're currently in Kyiv, or elsewhere in Ukraine, please be safe!

So where can a monger find these Ukrainian girls? Poland?

From the reports it seems Kiev is not a viable option these days, so I'd love to know where the girls went to.

[QUOTE=EvanderGriffin;2720210]So where can a monger find these Ukrainian girls? Poland?

From the reports it seems Kiev is not a viable option these days, so I'd love to know where the girls went to.[/QUOTE]You are a little late to the party. The girls have been fleeing Ukraine for over 10 years. Several guys conveniently left this out of there reports.

There is quite Ukrainian's crossing the Mexican border at San Ysidro. Not sure why, but I have not seen any good looking Ukrainian girls. Would be nice if some of them worked in Tijuana or SD.

[QUOTE=EvanderGriffin;2720210]So where can a monger find these Ukrainian girls? Poland?

From the reports it seems Kiev is not a viable option these days, so I'd love to know where the girls went to.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=EvanderGriffin;2720210]So where can a monger find these Ukrainian girls?[/QUOTE]Some are in southern Italy. It took my relatives about three years to realize they can't be trusted.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2720324]You are a little late to the party. The girls have been fleeing Ukraine for over 10 years. Several guys conveniently left this out of there reports.[/QUOTE]You are so right in what you say. I'am still in Kiev. Many girls left and the agency take crazy money. So if you just want to have fun find a other destination. And now with the war even more girls left Ukraine.

[QUOTE=EvanderGriffin;2720210]So where can a monger find these Ukrainian girls? Poland?
From the reports it seems Kiev is not a viable option these days, so I'd love to know where the girls went to.[/QUOTE]I was in Athens last week and spent an hour with a very attractive 21 year old from Dnipro. 140€. These photos are fairly accurate. They may or may not really speak English. I think most are actually Ukrainian not Russian. Add a few years to the age. I felt it was a fair price for a nice experience. Communication is by whatsapp in English. The girls come and go daily. I think you will not be disappointed with this agency.

[URL]https://glamourescorts.net[/URL]

[QUOTE=EvanderGriffin;2720210]So where can a monger find these Ukrainian girls? Poland?

From the reports it seems Kiev is not a viable option these days, so I'd love to know where the girls went to.[/QUOTE]In general just follow the money trail. If a Ukrainian girl is very attractive, she has already made a conscious decision to never work a day in her life, spend most of the day on instagram, or in the beauty salon spending somebodies else's money!

I have a couple of casual Ukranian chics that I rotate in Spain, but also found many decent looking hookers working in Dubai. The more plastic and superficial the place, the more likely you are to find these girls.

Kiev has been crap for 10+ years for our hobby, Istanbul, Dubai, and seeking arrangements is better for specifically looking for Ukranian chics.

Good Luck.

[QUOTE=MagicSheep74;2722823]If a Ukrainian girl is very attractive, she has already made a conscious decision to never work a day in her life,
I have a couple of casual Ukranian chics that I rotate in Spain, but also found many decent looking hookers working in Dubai.[/QUOTE]Of course these casual Ukrainian chics are rotating you with several of their other johns. You can't call that not working.

[QUOTE=MagicSheep74;2722823] If a Ukrainian girl is very attractive, she has already made a conscious decision to never work a day in her life, spend most of the day on instagram, or in the beauty salon spending somebodies else's money![/QUOTE]Everyone has their own beauty standards. I probably cannot afford the absolute crème de la crème Slavic supermodel. However I am pretty picky. I can assure you that last week I spent a very pleasant, loving hour with Daniella, advertised as a 19 year old Russian, really a 21 year old Ukrainian, from this escort service in Athens. 140 euro. Add 10 or 15 pounds to what you see in her photos but otherwise accurate. Tell her that her Papa from New York City sent you. In general, I don't think that this agency will disappoint and Athens is a safe, inexpensive destination.

[URL]https://glamourescorts.net[/URL]

About 70% of Athens working girls are Eastern European.

A question: for those of you who were there in 2014-2019 - is this girl familiar to you? Could she be one of the GIA girls from that period?

Thank you.

[QUOTE=MagicSheep74;2722823]In general just follow the money trail. If a Ukrainian girl is very attractive, she has already made a conscious decision to never work a day in her life, spend most of the day on instagram, or in the beauty salon spending somebodies else's money!

I have a couple of casual Ukrainian chics that I rotate in Spain, but also found many decent looking hookers working in Dubai. The more plastic and superficial the place, the more likely you are to find these girls.

Kiev has been crap for 10+ years for our hobby, Istanbul, Dubai, and seeking arrangements is better for specifically looking for Ukrainian chics.

Good Luck.[/QUOTE]Yep, that is when Kiev went to Hell, about 10 years ago. When they closed River Place and the Casino, was the beginning of the downfall. So sad it just an amazing city.

I spent almost 4 months in Kyiv in 2017. It was fun enough. I would not say fantastic but it was really not bad at all. I dated some normal girls and got some agency working girls. I was able to have BBBJ from some younger average looking sucked me for like almost 1 hour for about 1800 uah. A little bit better looking one for about $80 to $100. I heard that those days maybe gone. 50% of girls are gone to Europe now. Those remain in kyiv asked a few times more than that now. Right before the war, my native ukrainian friend told me that he did a 5'10" blonde for $250. Now is probably $500.

I live in San Francisco bay area. I don't think I have experienced such a difficult to find working girls here. Maybe I'm exaggerating because I'm very pissed today. I have contacted about 20 girls today but none work out either no bbj or ask for too much extra or can't schedule. During the pandemic, it was difficult early on in 2020 but after a few months around June, girls didn't care anymore and started working anyways so it was not that hard to find girls. However, it was kinda spotty. Sometimes there maybe a lot of girls working but sometimes much less depends on the news.

Now its much harder, all the girls increase their prices due to inflation. And a lot of guys came out to find girls now after March. And pushed the price even higher now. There are more single guys left in the SF bay area than girls. It is harder to date normal girls so that maybe why more guys looking for working girls. It is just so hard to schedule with a girl if you just want a quickie or half hour. I think most guys spend at least 1 hour or even 2 hours to compete with you.

The problem with me is this: I had so much good time during last recession and I'm forever stuck in the recession mode from 2009 to 2016. That was the golden time of my life. So many pretty looking girls and it was so easy to schedule even I just asked for a quickie. Did so many beautiful girls for low price. Myredbook was shut down in June 2014. There was a painful few months but a new website came out after that to fill the void. However, as the economy started to fly from 2016. It marked the major down turn for middle class guy looking for easy cheap sex. This inflation further destroy the easy sex comfortable life middle class guys used to enjoy.

I went to Tijuana a few months ago. Holy jesus, there are so many guys packed the club. They have not raised the price too much yet but I heard that younger girls have option to pick guys who they want to fuck now. They can refuse fat old guys now. It is spotty just like SF bay area now. Depends on which night you go. There maybe some new younger girls working and less guys, that may make it easier for you. Same as SF bay area, there are new faces come up from time to time and more desperate to get clients but its not consistent. After they got reviewed, they raised their price immediately and they don't work everyday and not available for you like they did in recession. I was some how able to find 1 or 2 regulars that I liked a lot before April this year. However, I don't know why its got so much harder after April now. It is as difficult as myredbook just got shut down.

I still remember I could still pay $60 for a tall blonde in 2014 one last time. The job market was still not good yet and she was still in college.

Where do you guys suggest for us to go to continue to live a cheap easy sex life. I was thinking Russia & Ukraine's small towns because their major cities are also highly inflated. Or Moldova & Romania?

[QUOTE=BobSmith1;2730298]Where do you guys suggest for us to go to continue to live a cheap easy sex life. I was thinking Russia & Ukraine's small towns because their major cities are also highly inflated. Or Moldova & Romania?[/QUOTE]Certainly not a small town. Any city of a half mil plus should be good. Romania is the West, so not there.

At Bobsmith1.

I went to Kiev 1 month ago for humanitarian purposes. The price is set at $200 on several websites but no local men pay this price. On English websites, things are expensive. On Ukrainian websites, you see the real prices.

You should look there on an Ukrainian website:

[URL]http://kiev.ukrgo.com/post_24385672_ispolnju_bse_tboi_tajnye_zhelanija.zboni_sladkij.html[/URL]

In Kiev there are three price categories: The American price which is $200-$250, the European price which is $150-$180, and the price for local men: $80-$100.

Don't be a simp, negotiate and tell that you are ready to pay $80-100. Trick them by using google translate and they will believe that you are Ukrainian.

Ukrainian women are not in a position to negotiate price upwards. Their night clubs were they usually operate are closed. Some of them moved to Poland but it looks like the market in Poland is not big enough to accept new escorts. Many among them came back to Kiev or they moved to Turkey, Cyprus, Spain. I don't know about Germany.

[QUOTE=HenriDufresne;2730661]At Bobsmith1.

I went to Kiev 1 month ago for humanitarian purposes. The price is set at $200 on several websites but no local men pay this price. On English websites, things are expensive. On Ukrainian websites, you see the real prices.

You should look there on an Ukrainian website:

[URL]http://kiev.ukrgo.com/post_24385672_ispolnju_bse_tboi_tajnye_zhelanija.zboni_sladkij.html[/URL]

In Kiev there are three price categories: The American price which is $200-$250, the European price which is $150-$180, and the price for local men: $80-$100.

Don't be a simp, negotiate and tell that you are ready to pay $80-100. Trick them by using google translate and they will believe that you are Ukrainian.

Ukrainian women are not in a position to negotiate price upwards. Their night clubs were they usually operate are closed. Some of them moved to Poland but it looks like the market in Poland is not big enough to accept new escorts. Many among them came back to Kiev or they moved to Turkey, Cyprus, Spain. I don't know about Germany.[/QUOTE]You are totally right. I been in Kiev now for some months. As soon as the girls / agency have the feeling that you are a foreigner the prices get higher. And as you say no Ukraine men can pay the crazy prices they aks the foreigners for. I still not understand why some foreigner accept these prices in Kiev now. There are not many customers (tourist) and the locals have big problem just to find a job (and salary is very low now).

And it is not the girls there work in these salon or agency there get the money. The girls get around 30-40 % (some get less) and the salon take the rest. I see a 19 year girl at this moment. She comes aroung 18:00-19:00 and leave the next morning. She get 2000 grn and are super happy.

Use google translate and not pay tourist prices for girls in Kiev. Please not just pay what they aks for.

[QUOTE=Nero6;2731472] I see a 19 year girl at this moment. She comes aroung 18:00-19:00 and leave the next morning. She get 2000 grn and are super happy.[/QUOTE]Some might believe that 2000 grn is a fair price for one hour meeting. Of course, if someone is financially in as poor situation as people in Kiev are at this moment, then it's understandable one cannot afford to pay more. But if this is not the case, then such a low compensation for a night might be considered taking advantage of another person's desperate situation.

But everyone according to their own morals.

Hopefully we will get a chance to contribute to the well-being of Ukrainian girls in the years to come.

[QUOTE=Desin;2731631]Some might believe that 2000 grn is a fair price for one hour meeting. Of course, if someone is financially in as poor situation as people in Kiev are at this moment, then it's understandable one cannot afford to pay more. But if this is not the case, then such a low compensation for a night might be considered taking advantage of another person's desperate situation.

But everyone according to their own morals.

Hopefully we will get a chance to contribute to the well-being of Ukrainian girls in the years to come.[/QUOTE]I disagree, I am in touch with several pros in Kiev. Rents tremendously dropped since the start of the war. Some of them live in beautiful apartments that they could not afford before. These women use the war at their advantage because they want men to feel pity for them. This summer, several of them worked in Spain, Turkey, Cyprus. They didn't pay the train tickets in Poland, Germany, France because it was free. Since they were considered refugees, they had free meals.

Don't contribute to inflation.

There is a website where you can find all these women in Kiev:

[URL]http://kiev.ukrgo.com/view_subsection.php?id_subsection=146[/URL]

Use telegram, whatsapp.

Use google translate.

Pretend to be a local and write in Ukrainian, ask for her price and you will get the local prices.

[QUOTE=Desin;2731631]Some might believe that 2000 grn is a fair price for one hour meeting. Of course, if someone is financially in as poor situation as people in Kiev are at this moment, then it's understandable one cannot afford to pay more. But if this is not the case, then such a low compensation for a night might be considered taking advantage of another person's desperate situation.

But everyone according to their own morals.

Hopefully we will get a chance to contribute to the well-being of Ukrainian girls in the years to come.[/QUOTE]The girl I see for 2000 grn is happy. She have some friends there work as waiter. They work pr day between 9-11 hours and get 400-500 grn (of course + tips) but no one give tips. And as she say many of the local men's do not have money.

And if you take a girl from a salon or apartment the girls gets not much but the people behind take most of the money. (these people have morals as you talk about?

I was told that if a indi girl, salon or agency are lucky to find a tourist in Kiev now there pay there crazy prices (3000-6000 grn for 1 hour) because they know he is a foreigner. Than they laugh the hole way to his apartment and back again. Because it is a lot of money here now.

So if you are a foreigner here in Kiev now be not stupid and pay crazy money for a girl. Negotiate, use google translate and get the price down.

No tourist = no money.

[QUOTE=HenriDufresne;2731727]I disagree, I am in touch with several pros in Kiev. Rents tremendously dropped since the start of the war. Some of them live in beautiful apartments that they could not afford before. These women use the war at their advantage because they want men to feel pity for them. This summer, several of them worked in Spain, Turkey, Cyprus. They didn't pay the train tickets in Poland, Germany, France because it was free. Since they were considered refugees, they had free meals.

Don't contribute to inflation.

There is a website where you can find all these women in Kiev:.[/QUOTE]You are right in all you write.

The apartment prices is low because no tourist.

[QUOTE=HenriDufresne;2731727]I disagree, I am in touch with several pros in Kiev.[/QUOTE]I don't think we were talking about pros here.

[QUOTE=Nero6;2733200]The girl I see for 2000 grn is happy. She have some friends there work as waiter. They work pr day between 9-11 hours and get 400-500 grn (of course + tips) but no one give tips. And as she say many of the local men's do not have money.

And if you take a girl from a salon or apartment the girls gets not much but the people behind take most of the money. (these people have morals as you talk about?.[/QUOTE]I can admire your attempt on mental acrobatics, as to turn the situation around to support your side of your modus operandi, but I'm sure you are able to see and understand what I'm talking about. Having high moral (contrary to being an opportunist with low or no morality guiding one's actions) requires sacrifices, and they are done when one has to decide whether to uphold one's integrity or letting it slip when there is something sweet to be gained. On the advantage of another person.

But still, if you are poor person or from a poor country, I can totally agree that 2000 is better than nothing. For me, 60 euros has been the minimum limit to pay for another human being giving their body for my pleasure. For an hour. Last time when I was on a trip, I tipped 40 euros on top of this, 'because the girl came on a short notice after her 8 hour work day at midnight. It was for me the same as the cost of three pizzas. For her, it meant much more.

Being human for those that treat us as human beings instead of just walking wallets whom to fuck on a conveyor belt style is the minimum we can do as mongerers to have them girls keep providing their services. Maybe even telling their girlfriends "it ain't that bad, some of them are actually really nice persons". When a girl finds out what her value is, she will think of the men who paid her short as men who took advantage of her ignorance of youth. For example, I got this sense from my ex regular, whom I paid 120 euro for "an hour" (and it would be 3 hours before she got a boyfriend) for a year, and who is now being paid 300 euros for one hour, because she is the cream of the crop. We had amazing time, she said I'm her favorite client. I actually was able to get her cum by licking, which was super rare for her, and we did some things every time that really turned her on that not many people do in sex. Yet, there was the hint of bitterness and blame in her message for me, stating what she charges now. She didn't remember I told her on our second or third meeting that she could ask for 250 euros, the highest price girls ask here. She was able to go even higher. But since our meetings cost me 300 euros with her 120, the apartment for 100, and travel plus meals, she knew I appreciated her company a lot. Others paid her around 100 euros. She was a girl who was approached by men all the time, but deep down she didn't think herself to be of value. This is something we should not take advantage of.

I'd say pay for the work the price it's worth. As one would hope one would get from his own work. It's time and effort the girls put into this, the same as we do when we earn our money.

Especially in Ukraine.

[QUOTE=Desin;2734018]I don't think we were talking about pros here.

I can admire your attempt on mental acrobatics, as to turn the situation around to support your side of your modus operandi, but I'm sure you are able to see and understand what I'm talking about. Having high moral (contrary to being an opportunist with low or no morality guiding one's actions) requires sacrifices, and they are done when one has to decide whether to uphold one's integrity or letting it slip when there is something sweet to be gained. On the advantage of another person.

But still, if you are poor person or from a poor country, I can totally agree that 2000 is better than nothing. For me, 60 euros has been the minimum limit to pay for another human being giving their body for my pleasure. For an hour. Last time when I was on a trip, I tipped 40 euros on top of this, 'because the girl came on a short notice after her 8 hour work day at midnight. It was for me the same as the cost of three pizzas. For her, it meant much more.

Being human for those that treat us as human beings instead of just walking wallets whom to fuck on a conveyor belt style is the minimum we can do as mongerers to have them girls keep providing their services. Maybe even telling their girlfriends "it ain't that bad, some of them are actually really nice persons". When a girl finds out what her value is, she will think of the men who paid her short as men who took advantage of her ignorance of youth..[/QUOTE]But as you know persons there have the same work do not get the same salary for the same work they do. It dependent on in which country. So if you want come to Kiev and spend 200-300 for 1 hour with a girl. The indi girls and agency will love you here.

As long as the girl agree on the price I pay (are happy and write can we meet again) why should I than pay tourist price for a girl. I even pay more than many of the Ukraine men does. So my moral is good.

I will never pay tourist prices 80-200 for a girl for 1 hour here in Kiev now.

So to the few tourist there are in Kiev now. Get the price down. If you not want the girls and salon to laugh of you because just pay there crazy prices. And many times the girls only get a very little part of the money the most go to the people behind.

I guess my understanding about the prices in Ukraine could be skewed, since when I was there pre-war the minimum girls would ask in Mamba was 100 dollars for an hour (except the one 50 dollar girl which some of you know) and they weren't the prettiest ones. Better looking girls asked 200 dollars and laughed for the 100.

How are you treated there now, Nero? Can people spot that you are foreigner from your looks?

[QUOTE=Desin;2736114]I guess my understanding about the prices in Ukraine could be skewed, since when I was there pre-war the minimum girls would ask in Mamba was 100 dollars for an hour (except the one 50 dollar girl which some of you know) and they weren't the prettiest ones. Better looking girls asked 200 dollars and laughed for the 100.

How are you treated there now, Nero? Can people spot that you are foreigner from your looks?[/QUOTE]It Is a new time here in Kiev. It is not like before the war where people had good job and there was so many tourist here in Kiev. Yesterday I went to O'Brains pub. Before the war many forigners and good business there. Yesterday when they closed at 19:45 there had been 11 people there (open at 12:00). The barman said the business is so bad and no tourist. He said about 90 % of the people there come there are Ukraine people and the rest foreigners. Before the war so many forigner there.

If people take contact to me they do it in russian language. So I most look like a local. When they find out I'am a foreigner they are so gratefull and happy that I'am here (they say thanks for support Ukraine, true friend of Ukraine and that I stay in Kiev). So people are so kind to me here.

[QUOTE=HenriDufresne;2730661]At Bobsmith1.

On Ukrainian websites, you see the real prices.

You should look there on an Ukrainian website:

[URL]http://kiev.ukrgo.com/post_24385672_ispolnju_bse_tboi_tajnye_zhelanija.zboni_sladkij.html[/URL].[/QUOTE]This website is not working today. Do you guys have some more local websites that are used inside Ukraine?

I'm planning a trip to EU soon for work and then I'll take a week to hunt women. I'd rather have one girl for 3 days then multiple girls. Is there any reliable agencies in any part of Ukraine?

[QUOTE=BarryWood;2737588]This website is not working today. Do you guys have some more local websites that are used inside Ukraine?

I'm planning a trip to EU soon for work and then I'll take a week to hunt women. I'd rather have one girl for 3 days then multiple girls. Is there any reliable agencies in any part of Ukraine?[/QUOTE]The site works just fine. It's just that the one post on the ukrgo site has been taken down.

[QUOTE=UkeBoy;2737786]The site works just fine. It's just that the one post on the ukrgo site has been taken down.[/QUOTE]I think you may be interested to know the link to the Kiev escort category of Ukrgo:

Here we go:

[URL]http://kiev.ukrgo.com/view_subsection.php?id_subsection=146[/URL]

Open this page in Chrome or Edge to get the translation.

Share your experience with the girls that you met on ukrgo.

I have seen streetwalkers who also advertised on ukrgo. It can be quite good actually. I remember this woman who said she was available near a metro station in Kiev. So, you can go there and evaluate her beauty before talking to her.

Thank you.

I suppose that other than physically joining the fight, the next best thing you can do to help Ukraine is taking a trip and, depending on your budget, dropping 5 K to 10 K over a week or two. If a million tourists were to do this, they would add 10 billion to their economy. But for Christ sake, do not overpay, or you will raise the prices.

[QUOTE=Nero6;2736377]It Is a new time here in Kiev. It is not like before the war where people had good job and there was so many tourist here in Kiev. Yesterday I went to O'Brains pub. Before the war many forigners and good business there. Yesterday when they closed at 19:45 there had been 11 people there (open at 12:00). The barman said the business is so bad and no tourist. He said about 90 % of the people there come there are Ukraine people and the rest foreigners. Before the war so many forigner there.

If people take contact to me they do it in russian language. So I most look like a local. When they find out I'am a foreigner they are so gratefull and happy that I'am here (they say thanks for support Ukraine, true friend of Ukraine and that I stay in Kiev). So people are so kind to me here.[/QUOTE]

Looking at Ukr postings, it looks like there are real, bona-fide postings out of real girls desperate for $.

Due to war, economy, many girls seem to be forced to come into this world.

I just wish the airway to Boryspil opens soon so that my blueballs can empty out.

How is it in Kiev? Any fellow comrades write about it? Or, you guys in Kiev are so busy meeting girls?

[QUOTE=Desin;2734018]I don't think we were talking about pros here.

I can admire your attempt on mental acrobatics, as to turn the situation around to support your side of your modus operandi, but I'm sure you are able to see and understand what I'm talking about. Having high moral (contrary to being an opportunist with low or no morality guiding one's actions) requires sacrifices, and they are done when one has to decide whether to uphold one's integrity or letting it slip when there is something sweet to be gained. On the advantage of another person.

But still, if you are poor person or from a poor country, I can totally agree that 2000 is better than nothing. For me, 60 euros has been the minimum limit to pay for another human being giving their body for my pleasure. For an hour. Last time when I was on a trip, I tipped 40 euros on top of this, 'because the girl came on a short notice after her 8 hour work day at midnight. It was for me the same as the cost of three pizzas. For her, it meant much more.

Being human for those that treat us as human beings instead of just walking wallets whom to fuck on a conveyor belt style is the minimum we can do as mongerers to have them girls keep providing their services. Maybe even telling their girlfriends "it ain't that bad, some of them are actually really nice persons". When a girl finds out what her value is, she will think of the men who paid her short as men who took advantage of her ignorance of youth. For example, I got this sense from my ex regular, whom I paid 120 euro for "an hour" (and it would be 3 hours before she got a boyfriend) for a year, and who is now being paid 300 euros for one hour, because she is the cream of the crop. We had amazing time, she said I'm her favorite client. I actually was able to get her cum by licking, which was super rare for her, and we did some things every time that really turned her on that not many people do in sex. Yet, there was the hint of bitterness and blame in her message for me, stating what she charges now. She didn't remember I told her on our second or third meeting that she could ask for 250 euros, the highest price girls ask here. She was able to go even higher. But since our meetings cost me 300 euros with her 120, the apartment for 100, and travel plus meals, she knew I appreciated her company a lot. Others paid her around 100 euros. She was a girl who was approached by men all the time, but deep down she didn't think herself to be of value. This is something we should not take advantage of.

I'd say pay for the work the price it's worth. As one would hope one would get from his own work. It's time and effort the girls put into this, the same as we do when we earn our money.

Especially in Ukraine.[/QUOTE]Very well said my fellow human!

[QUOTE=LKS2021;2743148]Looking at Ukr postings, it looks like there are real, bona-fide postings out of real girls desperate for $.

Due to war, economy, many girls seem to be forced to come into this world.

I just wish the airway to Boryspil opens soon so that my blueballs can empty out.

How is it in Kiev? Any fellow comrades write about it? Or, you guys in Kiev are so busy meeting girls?[/QUOTE]

Before the war, 98% of offers were fake. Do you think it's different now? In addition, the low prices are often only the basic tariff. For every little extra you have to pay extra. So that in the end the price doubles and triples. I've just come from Ukraine and I can assure you: beautiful women still have enough customers and pockets full of money. As is well known, Ukrainian men are not allowed to leave the country. So 90 percent of the four million refugees are women and children, invalids or pensioners. However, the supply of women has shrunk significantly. I wanted to invite a friend of mine for a vacation. She declined. Reason: In Kyiv she is doing the business of her life at the moment. What's missing at the moment is the party life. Because in the evening everything is closed early. And that's why many of the disco girls can be found abroad.

I was also in Kyiv at the time of the crisis in 2014/2015. At that time you could still find very beautiful girls with a financial problem. But the situation is not comparable. Absolutely not. Foreign countries are pumping a lot of money into Ukraine at the moment.

[QUOTE=Misterxxx;2744063]Before the war, 98% of offers were fake. Do you think it's different now? In addition, the low prices are often only the basic tariff. For every little extra you have to pay extra. So that in the end the price doubles and triples. I've just come from Ukraine and I can assure you: beautiful women still have enough customers and pockets full of money. As is well known, Ukrainian men are not allowed to leave the country. So 90 percent of the four million refugees are women and children, invalids or pensioners. However, the supply of women has shrunk significantly. I wanted to invite a friend of mine for a vacation. She declined. Reason: In Kyiv she is doing the business of her life at the moment. What's missing at the moment is the party life. Because in the evening everything is closed early. And that's why many of the disco girls can be found abroad.

I was also in Kyiv at the time of the crisis in 2014/2015. At that time you could still find very beautiful girls with a financial problem. But the situation is not comparable. Absolutely not. Foreign countries are pumping a lot of money into Ukraine at the moment.[/QUOTE]Some people live in a fantasy world. Why would you go to Kiev in the middle of a war?

[QUOTE=Misterxxx;2744063]Before the war, 98% of offers were fake. Do you think it's different now? In addition, the low prices are often only the basic tariff. For every little extra you have to pay extra. So that in the end the price doubles and triples. I've just come from Ukraine and I can assure you: beautiful women still have enough customers and pockets full of money. As is well known, Ukrainian men are not allowed to leave the country. So 90 percent of the four million refugees are women and children, invalids or pensioners. However, the supply of women has shrunk significantly. I wanted to invite a friend of mine for a vacation. She declined. Reason: In Kyiv she is doing the business of her life at the moment. What's missing at the moment is the party life. Because in the evening everything is closed early. And that's why many of the disco girls can be found abroad.

I was also in Kyiv at the time of the crisis in 2014/2015. At that time you could still find very beautiful girls with a financial problem. But the situation is not comparable. Absolutely not. Foreign countries are pumping a lot of money into Ukraine at the moment.[/QUOTE]There are still many fake profil or the sites where you can find girls here in Kiev. And you are right that if you go to a salon, agency and some indi too, you most pay ekstra for every little ekstra service. So if you do it that way it can be expensive. I talked with a girl (I'am almost 100 % sure it was salon) aksing 150 $ for 1 hour (blowjob and sex in condom and no kissing). I said no.

Of course there will allway's be some people in Kiev there just pay crazy prices but it is not like before the war more. Many people here (in Kiev) have no work and the salary is very low now. So most of the ukraine men can not pay crazy money. One of my friends find a nice girl 22 year on badoo. He invited her out. For 2 person (some beer and a little food) he paid around 800 grn. And she went with him home and they had fun the hole night. And she did not aks for money. So the way is to find the girls your self. And it can take some time. But if you have time you can be lucky (find a nice girl for a good price).

And still if a girl work for a salon (the salon take around 60-80 % and the girl get the rest). So the girl there meet with the client do not get much when the people behind the place have had there cut.

And still not many tourist here. But to the foreigner there are here now have fun (but do not pay crazy money for a girl).

If some is in Kiev now and up for a beer let me know.

[QUOTE=Nero6;2744645]There are still many fake profil or the sites where you can find girls here in Kiev. And you are right that if you go to a salon, agency and some indi too, you most pay ekstra for every little ekstra service. So if you do it that way it can be expensive. I talked with a girl (I'am almost 100 % sure it was salon) aksing 150 $ for 1 hour (blowjob and sex in condom and no kissing). I said no.

Of course there will allway's be some people in Kiev there just pay crazy prices but it is not like before the war more. Many people here (in Kiev) have no work and the salary is very low now. So most of the ukraine men can not pay crazy money. One of my friends find a nice girl 22 year on badoo. He invited her out. For 2 person (some beer and a little food) he paid around 800 grn. And she went with him home and they had fun the hole night. And she did not aks for money. So the way is to find the girls your self. And it can take some time. But if you have time you can be lucky (find a nice girl for a good price).

And still if a girl work for a salon (the salon take around 60-80 % and the girl get the rest). So the girl there meet with the client do not get much when the people behind the place have had there cut.

And still not many tourist here. But to the foreigner there are here now have fun (but do not pay crazy money for a girl).

If some is in Kiev now and up for a beer let me know.[/QUOTE]Just tested some numbers posted on Ukrgo with telegram.

Most of them are fake, mama-san operating pros. Some even asked for 33000 UAH (approx. $900!

You are so right. Ukrainians do not forget what they are best at. (well, these scanky sharks!) - I respect innocent Ukrainians to fight for their freedom, tho.

Is it getting better in Kiev? I heard Mcdonald came back to open. My memories to hook up young girls at Kiev Mcdonald, that kind of thrill.

When would Boryspil open? Just having too big blueballs underneath, I need to release, fellas!

Shall we not go back to Kyiv one more time before Putin drops a nuke?

[QUOTE=Sorbonne;2746359]Shall we not go back to Kyiv one more time before Putin drops a nuke?[/QUOTE]I am afraid you might be right!!

[QUOTE=RubMeister100;2743766]Very well said my fellow human![/QUOTE]3 pizzas 40 euro, ha ha pathetic.

[QUOTE=LKS2021;2743148]Looking at Ukr postings, it looks like there are real, bona-fide postings out of real girls desperate for $.

Due to war, economy, many girls seem to be forced to come into this world.

I just wish the airway to Boryspil opens soon so that my blueballs can empty out.

How is it in Kiev? Any fellow comrades write about it? Or, you guys in Kiev are so busy meeting girls?[/QUOTE]Is your name Stevie wonder? How do you think it is?

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2746360]I am afraid you might be right!![/QUOTE]Many people in Kiev talk about if Putin will use it (people are worried). And we never know what a desperate Putin will do.

[QUOTE=Nero6;2749055]Many people in Kiev talk about if Putin will use it (people are worried). And we never know what a desperate Putin will do.[/QUOTE]Of course we don't "know." There's a whole lot in this life we don't know, but the odds of Russia using nukes remains very low. The most likely scenario is that once the inner circle decides it's time, Putin is put out to pasture to live out his life. This has happened a number of times with Russian leaders, most recently with Yeltsin. Here's an interesting video from a former Putin speech writer where this case is made.

[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tt07fmWUnhU[/URL]

Also the chances of Putin using tactical nukes remains very low. If he does this is the sort of promised "catastrophic" response he can expect.

[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BL90ljiNuSs[/URL]

P.S. We have a lot of Chicken Littles in the states, mostly those on the far right, but these are just terrified of Biden succeeding and what that will do to their electoral prospects.

4 million women have tasted the emancipation of western society.

- why would I wear high heels? In the west, no woman does this.

- why would I wear sexy clothes? In the west, no woman does this.

All those Ukrainian women will return to Ukraine with a changed mentality about how they look at men.

A girlfriend of mine went back to Kyiv last week, she told me that there are so few women in UKR now that all men looked at her with hunger, like she was meat.

It's a pity, but for high-quality women, you do not need to go to UKR anymore. It's over.

[QUOTE=SkinnyMan;2753796]4 million women have tasted the emancipation of western society.

- why would I wear high heels? In the west, no woman does this.

- why would I wear sexy clothes? In the west, no woman does this.

All those Ukrainian women will return to Ukraine with a changed mentality about how they look at men.

A girlfriend of mine went back to Kyiv last week, she told me that there are so few women in UKR now that all men looked at her with hunger, like she was meat.

It's a pity, but for high-quality women, you do not need to go to UKR anymore. It's over.[/QUOTE]You are very late to the party. Kiev was over 10 years ago. Some were in denial.

[QUOTE=SkinnyMan;2753796]4 million women have tasted the emancipation of western society.

- why would I wear high heels? In the west, no woman does this.

- why would I wear sexy clothes? In the west, no woman does this.

All those Ukrainian women will return to Ukraine with a changed mentality about how they look at men.

A girlfriend of mine went back to Kyiv last week, she told me that there are so few women in UKR now that all men looked at her with hunger, like she was meat.

It's a pity, but for high-quality women, you do not need to go to UKR anymore. It's over.[/QUOTE]While there's one thing we can say with reasonable certainty, namely that the pre-Feb 24th world is gone, never to return, anything beyond that involves variables that could play out in multiple ways.

If and when all those Ukrainian women return, what will their country look like? Will there be a Marshall-style plan to rebuild, or not? If hostilities cease, will there be a meaningful peace or an uneasy armistice? Will robust European support continue, or will fatigue set in?

Another thing about which we can be certain is that tens of thousands of military-age men will no longer be alive, or may have a disability such that they can no longer support themselves or anyone else. In Luhansk and Donetsk, from many articles and videos I've seen, it appears that only boys and old men remain. If Ukraine retakes some or all of those territories, all the women in those areas will struggle as they figure out their futures.

Again, I would argue that the best crystal ball is understandably murky. But there are bound to be some profound and unpredictable changes.

[QUOTE=SkinnyMan;2753796]


All those Ukrainian women will return to Ukraine with a changed mentality about how they look at men.
[/QUOTE]Anybody with a dick will be king in forever poor and dysfunctional Ukraine.

[QUOTE=Riina;2754417]Anybody with a dick will be king in forever poor and dysfunctional Ukraine.[/QUOTE]From all accounts, that is what happened in the immediate post-World War II years in Germany. American and British servicemen occupying Germany were much in demand by the female population.

The difference in a globalized world is many of the most attractive Ukrainian women will pick up and move somewhere else if they haven't already. There will be a brain drain and beauty drain.

[QUOTE=Riina;2754417]Anybody with a dick will be king in forever poor and dysfunctional Ukraine.[/QUOTE]Right. As opposed to that wealthy and prosperous country FKA the Russian Federation. Oh, I forgot "forever" my bad.

You must be feeling lonely here without your comrades Merdo and Golfinho. It seems something has spooked them (I wonder what).

[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2754535]From all accounts, that is what happened in the immediate post-World War II years in Germany. American and British servicemen occupying Germany were much in demand by the female population.

The difference in a globalized world is many of the most attractive Ukrainian women will pick up and move somewhere else if they haven't already. There will be a brain drain and beauty drain.[/QUOTE]If Western money flows into Ukraine, both to rebuild it and to fully integrate it into the EU, it's possible Ukrainian women will stay in country. Likewise, that same scenario could motivate those that left to return.

I have no idea, and I'm not making a prediction as there are multiple variables and (IMO) probably plenty of plot twists yet to play out. Just wanted to point out one alternate scenario.

[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2755440]If Western money flows into Ukraine, both to rebuild it and to fully integrate it into the EU, it's possible Ukrainian women will stay in country. Likewise, that same scenario could motivate those that left to return.

I have no idea, and I'm not making a prediction as there are multiple variables and (IMO) probably plenty of plot twists yet to play out. Just wanted to point out one alternate scenario.[/QUOTE]There not coming back, they left for a better life. You guys can keep dreaming. If you want hot Ukraine girls go to Europe, they are not in Ukraine.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2755546]There not coming back, they left for a better life. You guys can keep dreaming. If you want hot Ukraine girls go to Europe, they are not in Ukraine.[/QUOTE]I specifically said my post was not a prediction, only a possible alternative scenario. How things will play out in reality depends on many variables, both known and unknown. Since you apparently have a clear crystal ball, please be kind enough to share some winning lottery numbers with the forum. Thanks in advance!

[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2755710]I specifically said my post was not a prediction, only a possible alternative scenario. How things will play out in reality depends on many variables, both known and unknown. Since you apparently have a clear crystal ball, please be kind enough to share some winning lottery numbers with the forum. Thanks in advance![/QUOTE]Since most left long before the war and Covid. Why would they go back now, but I guess you already knew this. Maybe if you did some research you would understand the issue with everyone leaving the country, this has been an issue for at least 10 years.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2755766]Since most left long before the war and Covid. Why would they go back now, but I guess you already knew this. Maybe if you did some research you would understand the issue with everyone leaving the country, this has been an issue for at least 10 years.[/QUOTE]The refugees I know all want to go back. The West can really be disgusting to some.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2755766]Since most left long before the war and Covid. Why would they go back now, but I guess you already knew this. Maybe if you did some research you would understand the issue with everyone leaving the country, this has been an issue for at least 10 years.[/QUOTE]If you want to go back 10+ years, that's your prerogative. But you should at least have the intellectual honesty to admit that your prognostications have little or nothing to do with the current situation. And, if Ukraine is such a shitty place, why are you wasting your precious time in this forum?

If any in Kiev now and want to talk about girls here over some beer let me know.

Only Putin and his generals know for sure, but attacks against notable symbols of Russian pride, such as ships of the Black Sea fleet (thought to be safely moored in Crimea), usually result in missile (or drone, or both) attacks on Ukrainian population centers as retaliation. And those attacks usually happen in the days immediately following the precipitating event.

[URL]https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-63437212[/URL]

There are no cities in Ukraine that are fully immune to such a strike since even modern air defense systems can't guarantee a 100% interception rate. That being the case, it might be prudent to be extra cautious over the next few days. Again, war is an unpredictable beast, but it can certainly be argued that the odds of missile or drone strikes over the next few days are higher than they would have been had the attack on the Russian ships not occurred.

Wishing all in Ukraine both health and safety!

[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2757073]Only Putin and his generals know for sure, but attacks against notable symbols of Russian pride, such as ships of the Black Sea fleet (thought to be safely moored in Crimea), usually result in missile (or drone, or both) attacks on Ukrainian population centers as retaliation. And those attacks usually happen in the days immediately following the precipitating event.

[URL]https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-63437212[/URL]

There are no cities in Ukraine that are fully immune to such a strike since even modern air defense systems can't guarantee a 100% interception rate. That being the case, it might be prudent to be extra cautious over the next few days. Again, war is an unpredictable beast, but it can certainly be argued that the odds of missile or drone strikes over the next few days are higher than they would have been had the attack on the Russian ships not occurred.

Wishing all in Ukraine both health and safety![/QUOTE]Thanks.

Yes again this Monday morning explosions all over Ukraine (also in Kiev).

In Kiev many have no power and water.

Safe day to all here in Kiev.

Sorry about my dilemma. Over 7.7 million refugees fleeing Ukraine have been recorded across Europe, while an estimated 8 million people had been displaced within the country by late May. Now the Kiev is now and then under attack, partly no water, no electricity, what's reason to stay there as a foreign sex tourist?

But on the hand, there are 17 pages (every page 30 erotic ads from private or company) on Keksik Website (for city Kiev). Most girls are so beautiful that I would say most the them are using fake phots.

In economy theory, when the demand is lower, there should be less supply.

[QUOTE=HessenStud;2757666]Sorry about my dilemma. Over 7.7 million refugees fleeing Ukraine have been recorded across Europe, while an estimated 8 million people had been displaced within the country by late May. Now the Kiev is now and then under attack, partly no water, no electricity, what's reason to stay there as a foreign sex tourist?

But on the hand, there are 17 pages (every page 30 erotic ads from private or company) on Keksik Website (for city Kiev). Most girls are so beautiful that I would say most the them are using fake phots.

In economy theory, when the demand is lower, there should be less supply.[/QUOTE]I have no idea how to calculate the permutations of Ukrainian women leaving vs Ukrainian women returning vs those moving around inside the country. Nor do I have any idea how many of those sex ads are using fake pics, or are completely fake with no real women behind them, or are perhaps the work of a few women posting multiple ads. Who knows?

It's clear, however, that all of Ukraine is a war zone. That's the reality, even if in some cities and areas it doesn't always seem like it. For those supposedly 'safe' areas, consider that the situation could change in an instant if Putin or his generals decide to strike them with missiles and kamikaze drones. It truly is Russian Roulette. 5 out of 6 cylinders may be empty, and you'll be fine, but if it's not your lucky day you'll be permanently retired from the hobby, as well as everything else in life. And then, assuming you avoid being killed or injured, you'll perhaps get to enjoy spending some time in the Ukrainian winter without electricity or running water.

Ukrainians, and other people who need to stay in Kyiv and other cities know the risk and accept it. Someone who takes a discretionary mongering trip because they have an urge for some Ukrainian pussy is, to be blunt, a certifiable idiot.

P.S. It's not entirely clear from your post whether you're asking a hypothetical or a practical question. If hypothetical, then others can chime in about the current state of Kyiv mongering. But, if practical (I. E, you're trying to figure out if you personally want to travel), then the above post is applicable.

[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2758020]I have no idea how to calculate the permutations of Ukrainian women leaving vs Ukrainian women returning vs those moving around inside the country. Nor do I have any idea how many of those sex ads are using fake pics, or are completely fake with no real women behind them, or are perhaps the work of a few women posting multiple ads. Who knows?

It's clear, however, that all of Ukraine is a war zone. That's the reality, even if in some cities and areas it doesn't always seem like it. For those supposedly 'safe' areas, consider that the situation could change in an instant if Putin or his generals decide to strike them with missiles and kamikaze drones. It truly is Russian Roulette. 5 out of 6 cylinders may be empty, and you'll be fine, but if it's not your lucky day you'll be permanently retired from the hobby, as well as everything else in life. And then, assuming you avoid being killed or injured, you'll perhaps get to enjoy spending some time in the Ukrainian winter without electricity or running water.

Ukrainians, and other people who need to stay in Kyiv and other cities know the risk and accept it. Someone who takes a discretionary mongering trip because they have an urge for some Ukrainian pussy is, to be blunt, a certifiable idiot..[/QUOTE]You pretty much summed up Kiev and Ukraine. Why anyone would go to Ukraine now for pleasure makes, zero sense, but nothing about Ukraine makes sense.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2758178]You pretty much summed up Kiev and Ukraine. Why anyone would go to Ukraine now for pleasure makes, zero sense, but nothing about Ukraine makes sense.[/QUOTE]Yes. I absolutely agree with you. I still go to Ukraine regularly. However, for business. The sex thing is just a side thing. I think going to Ukraine without contacts or a contingency plan is foolish. Because the connections with the train or the buses can end at any time. Or become as catastrophic as in February. Please do not fall into the delusion that you can get on the train with a ticket in the event of a mass exodus. You are then stuck in Ukraine for days. Locals will charge you top dollar if you want to go to the border.

Even now there are often exceptional situations. After the attack on the country's power stations, border crossings were closed for hours. There was no electricity. So no entry and exit either. Certainly many people then missed a train or flight from Poland.

There are advertisements on the Internet or postings in Telegram newsgroups with offers or pictures. Please do not believe any of this information. Really 90 percent wrong. It's just to lure you to an address or to initiate orders of women into your home. Whether beautiful or ugly women will appear is always a gamble.

Also Ukraine is not as cheap as you think. There are enough people with money. Still. Everything has become significantly more expensive. For us from the West it might still be relatively cheap. But significantly more expensive than e. G. Last year or before Corona.

[QUOTE=Misterxxx;2758495]Even now there are often exceptional situations. After the attack on the country's power stations, border crossings were closed for hours. There was no electricity. So no entry and exit either. Certainly many people then missed a train or flight from Poland.[/QUOTE]What's concerning about "exceptional situations," which is an interesting way to describe missile and drone attacks, is the notion that there's any level of certainty or predictability about them.

Consider that Putin has shown no reluctance to attack purely civilian targets. Media and social sites are full of photos showing strikes on apartment buildings, office and shopping locations, as well as parks, city streets, and railway platforms. Whether this is intentional or a matter of the use of non-precision guided weapons is immaterial. Because, whatever the reason, the people killed are still very much dead. And it's also important to consider that, if air defenses intercept an incoming missile, the fragments still have to land somewhere.

While it's certainly true that most recent strikes have been directed against infrastructure targets, will that remain the case? Who knows? Does anyone expect Putin and his generals to give advance warning before the next salvo? Again, the image of Russian Roulette comes to mind.

I certainly hope your employer is giving you hazard pay because the reality is that you're being sent to work in a de facto war zone. And, though I wish you health, safety, and all the best, I also hope you have your affairs in order.

Those of you in Ukraine have most certainly seen some images of people killed on the streets, or other locations that might have seemed relatively safe. I'm sure none of those people expected to be an "exceptional situation," may they rest in peace.

I've been following reports about the withdrawal of Russian forces from Kherson for a while. They've been all over the place, with some saying it's a fake withdrawal (and trap for Ukraine's army), others saying that Russian forces are withdrawing in an orderly manner, and still others saying that it's not orderly and that large numbers of Russian soldiers are being killed by artillery and rocket fire as they try to cross the Dnipro River.

However, what I'm now seeing is that the most recent reports are all trending toward the last scenario, namely heavy fighting and a very large number of Russian casualties. I have no way of knowing how accurate these reports are. And I'm guessing those of you in Ukraine have access to much better sources and real-time info.

But the reason for my posting is simply as a reminder that whenever Putin suffers a major defeat, setback, or embarrassment on the battlefield, his default response is to launch massive missile and drone attacks against Ukrainian cities. If the situation in Kherson is anywhere close to being as bad as some reports I've seen, there will be much anger and consternation in Russia. Putin has used missile attacks against Ukrainian cities before to appease that anger, so it won't be a shock if he does it again.

Please be extra careful for the next few days (at least) and stay close to shelters. Hope for the best but prepare for the worst!

[QUOTE=HessenStud;2757666]In economy theory, when the demand is lower, there should be less supply.[/QUOTE]Which economy theory?

In free market, lower demand means price goes down not the supply. Supply will go down if Russian terrorists go further into cities.

[QUOTE=DwayneJohnson;2766038]Which economy theory?

In free market, lower demand means price goes down not the supply. Supply will go down if Russian terrorists go further into cities.[/QUOTE]Things like the free market, and supply-demand curves, are dramatically affected by the existence of a wartime economy, which is what Ukraine is experiencing. Even parts of the economy that appear to be operating "normally" are not immune because instability and uncertainty touch on everything and the usual economic incentives aren't always applicable. In addition, the flow of funds into and out of Ukraine, as well as the flow of people, has unpredictable effects.

When the war finally ends, assuming current trends continue and Ukraine retains (at least) its pre-Feb 24th territory, and possibly more, there will most likely be a lengthy reconstruction period in which Western money will continue to flow in, only no longer for weapons. I'm no economist, but it seems probable that a reconstruction economy isn't likely to be any more "normal" than one during wartime.

Not making predictions, just offering observations that things are likely to be rather crazy for the foreseeable future. The pre-Feb 24th Ukraine is gone, never to return. Ukraine's next chapter, with movement toward both EU and NATO membership, will have a lot of moving parts and variables at play, many of which we can't yet imagine.

I'm guessing it's going to be quite a rollercoaster ride, hopefully with an upward trajectory. But I would be cautious of those who think they can figure it out ahead of time. Those are probably the same people who predicted this would be a short war, and that Ukraine would lose.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2755546]There not coming back, they left for a better life. You guys can keep dreaming. If you want hot Ukraine girls go to Europe, they are not in Ukraine.[/QUOTE]So where are these hot ex-pat non-pro women now? Poland? Romania? And how can we connect with them? Are there Ukrainian web-sites or networks where you can meet Ukrainian women who have relocated to Europe or America?

And while I am sure many women will have fled Ukraine, many cannot. These women were poor enough when the situation was stable. Living from day to day often. Who has the money to escape and start a new life with no support networks or stable employment? I think it will be happy hunting for those brave mongers who venture into Ukraine today. And I suppose a target-rich environment for those hunting in places with large UA ex-pat populations.

I am talking here about normal, non-pro girls, who might be looking for mutually beneficial relationships or even real LTR - not escorts.

[QUOTE=GentlemanTravel;2784277]So where are these hot ex-pat non-pro women now? Poland? Romania? And how can we connect with them? Are there Ukrainian web-sites or networks where you can meet Ukrainian women who have relocated to Europe or America?

And while I am sure many women will have fled Ukraine, many cannot. These women were poor enough when the situation was stable. Living from day to day often. Who has the money to escape and start a new life with no support networks or stable employment? I think it will be happy hunting for those brave mongers who venture into Ukraine today. And I suppose a target-rich environment for those hunting in places with large UA ex-pat populations.

I am talking here about normal, non-pro girls, who might be looking for mutually beneficial relationships or even real LTR - not escorts.[/QUOTE]The are living in a Fantasy world. The war is escalating.

Putin and the Russian public share a mentality that assigns greater significance to things that happen on certain dates. The dates can be anything from Putin's birthday to anniversaries of WW-II events. The symbolic value for anything accomplished on such a date is higher, and has more PR value, than if that same accomplishment happened some other time.

Putin is scheduled to make a speech on Feb 21st (IIRC). If he's planning some kind of major military attack it makes sense to anticipate it coming sometime in the coming week. It doesn't need to be exactly on the 24th or 21st, it could possibly happen before or after and would still be claimed as a victory for the anniversary.

As a practical matter, anyone who doesn't need to be in Ukraine right now would be well advised to leave. There is no part of the country that's beyond the range of missiles and drones. And civilian targets are not immune from attack. For anyone who isn't able to leave, now is a good time to review your safety protocols and to remind yourself about the constant need to guard against complacency.

Not trying to be alarmist, but simply making the point that Putin absolutely needs to demonstrate his strength, even if it's just for his domestic audience. The one year anniversary of the war is an opportunity I doubt he will pass up. Be safe!

[QUOTE=GentlemanTravel;2784277]So where are these hot ex-pat non-pro women now? [/QUOTE]If you're in north America, forget about Ukrainians. It's just not there. Kazak girls are getting visas into the country. Most are Asian but some are white Russian. Real needy girls too, just have to know where to look.

Speaking with girls who are still in Ukraine and who have left Ukraine after the war, I feel that they have changed much more than I had imagined.

It's almost like their personality have changed or they can't think straight. One even seems going crazy.

Any thoughts or your experience with them lately?

[QUOTE=Sorbonne;2793027]Speaking with girls who are still in Ukraine and who have left Ukraine after the war, I feel that they have changed much more than I had imagined.

It's almost like their personality have changed or they can't think straight. One even seems going crazy.

Any thoughts or your experience with them lately?[/QUOTE]I guess it may be simpler. They are all going through trauma? It's not PTSD as it is ongoing. How do you call it? Just TSD?

[QUOTE=GentlemanTravel;2784277]So where are these hot ex-pat non-pro women now? Poland? Romania? And how can we connect with them?[/QUOTE]I can't speak for Europe but I can speak for Dubai. There's a lot of Ukrainians and even Russians there. Set up a tinder and bumble account and you'll come across plenty of them. Go to the meat markets (Dubai brothels) and you'll also see them.

Can't recommend escort. Vc formerly GIA agency any more.

Prices are much higher than before, now they even post fake photos before they didn't, Kristina was really cool and friendly at GIA but the new operator is really stupid.

I used this agency for many years but I stopped using this agency.

[QUOTE=Rocko20;2793202]I can't speak for Europe but I can speak for Dubai. There's a lot of Ukrainians and even Russians there. Set up a tinder and bumble account and you'll come across plenty of them. Go to the meat markets (Dubai brothels) and you'll also see them.[/QUOTE]Any good escort agencies there w / Ukrainians and Russians girls? OR strip clubs that let you take girls home like Rio & dolls in Kiev?

[QUOTE=Rocko20;2793202]I can't speak for Europe but I can speak for Dubai. There's a lot of Ukrainians and even Russians there. Set up a tinder and bumble account and you'll come across plenty of them. Go to the meat markets (Dubai brothels) and you'll also see them.[/QUOTE]There are no brothels or RLD in Dubai. You will find lot of Ukranian girls in Clubs like Czar or Red Square in Moscow hotel. You have to take them to your hotels or apartments. You will find them also on Massage Republic where you can meet them in their apartments. Tinder is full of them. After war in Ukraine the Russians and Ukranian girls have multiplied in numbers in Dubai.

Did you find any countries with a good population of this women?

Have you been there?

I'm thinking of going to Romania or Poland.

[QUOTE=GentlemanTravel;2784277]So where are these hot ex-pat non-pro women now? Poland? Romania? And how can we connect with them? Are there Ukrainian web-sites or networks where you can meet Ukrainian women who have relocated to Europe or America?

And while I am sure many women will have fled Ukraine, many cannot. These women were poor enough when the situation was stable. Living from day to day often. Who has the money to escape and start a new life with no support networks or stable employment? I think it will be happy hunting for those brave mongers who venture into Ukraine today. And I suppose a target-rich environment for those hunting in places with large UA ex-pat populations.

I am talking here about normal, non-pro girls, who might be looking for mutually beneficial relationships or even real LTR - not escorts.[/QUOTE]

Does Kia escort run out of money? Or is the new administrator annoyed by all the requests? It was always possible to request the password for real photos for free. Because many pictures on the site are only with the face covered. Now Gia wants $100 for the password. And promises a credit if you book the girls:

You need a password to unlock REAL pics and videos! It costs 100 $ which are the deposit for your first meeting. The password is free for anyone who've used our services before, get it on Telegram.

Wondering if any one has tried this agency to meet women, probably for a relationship? Are the women motivated to get out of Ukraine now? I am in my late 60's and have had some interest in women in their 40's from this website. Is it fairly safe to travel to Kiev to meet a woman now? Anyone there now? Thanks,

[QUOTE=HumbleHal;2810155]Wondering if any one has tried this agency to meet women, probably for a relationship? Are the women motivated to get out of Ukraine now? I am in my late 60's and have had some interest in women in their 40's from this website. Is it fairly safe to travel to Kiev to meet a woman now? Anyone there now? Thanks,[/QUOTE]This is Delusional, all the girls are long gone. Foreign affairs is a scam, like every other dating agency in Ukraine. There is a war going on, you might want to take a look at the news occasionally.

[QUOTE=HumbleHal;2810155]Wondering if any one has tried this agency to meet women, probably for a relationship? Are the women motivated to get out of Ukraine now? I am in my late 60's and have had some interest in women in their 40's from this website. Is it fairly safe to travel to Kiev to meet a woman now? Anyone there now? Thanks,[/QUOTE]I was living in Kyiv for 8 of the past 10 years and only left when the war began. I would not trust this or any site when it comes to meeting a woman online if you want something serious.
I have a few hundred Ukrainians on my social media and I can tell you that 50% of the women who are thirty + have left Ukraine. I'd say 25% of women under thirty are living abroad. These numbers used to be higher but many have returned to Ukraine. That said, most Ukrainian women I know who've moved abroad have told me they'll go home soon or once the war is over as they're homesick.

About Kyiv safety, my Ukrainian contacts have told me Kyiv is quiet safe and calm right now and one might not even know there is a war going on, but that can change quickly with a missile attack and if you're considering going to Kyiv, you need to be mentally prepared for this. I think even during these times Kyiv is still safer than many American cities and Ive even considered stopping in for a visit in autumn. This is just my opinion based on the many conversations I've had recently.

[QUOTE=Gopnik;2810694]I was living in Kyiv for 8 of the past 10 years and only left when the war began. I would not trust this or any site when it comes to meeting a woman online if you want something serious.
I have a few hundred Ukrainians on my social media and I can tell you that 50% of the women who are thirty + have left Ukraine. I'd say 25% of women under thirty are living abroad. These numbers used to be higher but many have returned to Ukraine. That said, most Ukrainian women I know who've moved abroad have told me they'll go home soon or once the war is over as they're homesick.

About Kyiv safety, my Ukrainian contacts have told me Kyiv is quiet safe and calm right now and one might not even know there is a war going on, but that can change quickly with a missile attack and if you're considering going to Kyiv, you need to be mentally prepared for this. I think even during these times Kyiv is still safer than many American cities and Ive even considered stopping in for a visit in autumn. This is just my opinion based on the many conversations I've had recently.[/QUOTE]Ok, the part about Kiev being safe, I believe, but that could change at any moment. As far as girl's returning after the war, is just ridiculous and delusional. What are they going to return to. When I was living there, which way before the war, the girls that left had zero intention of returning to Ukraine. Maybe 10% will go back, if that, the rest are long gone, never to return. Ukraine has been done for 5-8 years, now with the war it is really over. If you do not believe me, Go check it out and write a report.

[QUOTE=Sorbonne;2793027]Speaking with girls who are still in Ukraine and who have left Ukraine after the war, I feel that they have changed much more than I had imagined.

It's almost like their personality have changed or they can't think straight. One even seems going crazy.

Any thoughts or your experience with them lately?[/QUOTE]Well, I speak with different Ukrainian women on my social media on a regular basis and it's sometimes difficult to gauge via text but if they are in Ukraine, they are obviously under a lot of stress. That said, life in Kyiv has normalized as much as it can under war conditions and the stress level has been reduced. I think 50% of the Ukrainian women I know who left Ukraine at the start of the war have returned and a few have recently told me they wish to return before the end of the year. Only a small handful have said they are staying in Europe for good. Despite have 300-400 hundred Ukrainian women from all walks of life on my social media, the overwhelming majority live in Kyiv or Western Ukraine and I cannot speak for those living closer to the war.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2810840]As far as girl's returning after the war, is just ridiculous and delusional.[/QUOTE]

The delusional one is you. Ukranians love their country. After the child kidnapping, HIV infected prison infantry and rashists have been kicked the fuck out, most of Europe will fund the reconstruction of Ukraine, and that land will be a place for business, commerce and more.

So in all likelihood, the people who have said that they will return, will do exactly that. Many people already returned from Poland for example, and more will do so later.

Keep your RuZZian politics out of this thread, and use the other one that's meant for off topic.

[QUOTE=VinDici;2810990]The delusional one is you. Ukranians love their country. After the child kidnapping, HIV infected prison infantry and rashists have been kicked the fuck out, most of Europe will fund the reconstruction of Ukraine, and that land will be a place for business, commerce and more.

So in all likelihood, the people who have said that they will return, will do exactly that. Many people already returned from Poland for example, and more will do so later.

Keep your RuZZian politics out of this thread, and use the other one that's meant for off topic.[/QUOTE]Assuming a post-war reconstruction effort happens, that will likely result in a shit-ton of money flooding into Ukraine. There will also likely be a parade of Western companies opening local offices and competing for business. In other words, a boom-town environment.

If that happens, some (many?) Ukrainians who have settled elsewhere could be incentivized to return to take advantage of new opportunities. So, in addition to motivational factors like family ties and patriotism, economic factors should also be a magnet.

What that could mean for the mongering scene is that, with so much money sloshing around, and with more alternatives available to women, prices will likely go higher (maybe much higher). That will be great for the country but will suck for mongers in Ukraine, and not in a good way. I'm sure there will be a chorus bemoaning the passing of the "good old days," but that's likely to be the reality, so best to be mentally prepared.

OTOH, those who are looking for a Ukrainian sugar-baby, girlfriend, or wife, might find a target-rich environment. One tragic outcome of this war is that tens of thousands of young and middle-aged Ukrainian men have gone to their eternal rest. In such a setting, a Western man of moderate+ means and passable+ attractiveness might be able to find some joy.

Both those dates are holidays in Russia, with May 9th (Victory Day) being especially significant. Putin loves symbolism, and I've seen some reports that Russia might be stockpiling missiles for possible attacks on one, or both, of those dates.

To be sure, it's all unverified internet chatter, but it doesn't hurt to be aware of the possibility. Anyone currently in Ukraine should keep these dates in mind, as well as dates just before and after, and pay good attention to any sirens and warnings. Some Russian cities have cancelled their Victory Day celebrations, and a missile barrage might be Putin's gift to them and a way to make a show of strength.

Wishing health and safety to all in Ukraine!

Hey there fellow deviants. New to this Ukraine board but many years of mongering in Latin America. Sooo, in conjunction with a recent Europe trip, I noticed a lack of expected Ukrainian working girls that I hoped to find in Central Europe. Therefore, upon my return home, I began to look at the current status of bordering crossings into western Ukraine, along with the prevalence of wartime violence in western areas. As you all were probably already aware, it's pretty quiet out west and border crossings are all open. So, after reading some postings in the General Info and Other Areas sections of this board, I checked out UKRGo dot com to see what was on offer. My thought is to possibly visit Lviv, entering from eastern Poland. My thought was to contact working girls in Kiev in order to refine my contact approach. I sent messages via my Czech Republic WhatsApp number, without a face photo on the profile. I also wrote to the girls in Ukrainian (using Google translate) in order to muddy my American origin. I wrote to 6 girls in Kiev and 2 girls in Lviv. I noticed there were multiple profiles of different girls with the same numbers. Does that mean they are just completely fake profiles or are they "agencies" that provide multiple girls? Anyway, I tried to get to pricing as quickly as possible before they started to ask where I'm located or where I'm from. I told one girl I was in a small town on the Ukrainian side of the border but that I was coming to Kiev for our appointment. I also told each girl that I was willing to pay 1500 UAH for a short time (1-2 hours) or 3000 UAH for overnight. Most girls seemed to want 2400 UAH for an hour. Although one sent me what appeared to be a set price list: 1200 UAH / HR sex; 700 UAH BJ only; 3200 UAH for overnight. These seem like pretty fair prices. Would you guys with pre-war experience in Ukraine agree. Is that a good price point or should I negotiate down more? There were also some prices to buy content which of course I am not interested in. Anxious to hear wisdom from the vets. Thanks in advance!

[QUOTE=Rodeo9112;2811283]Hey there fellow deviants. New to this Ukraine board but many years of mongering in Latin America. Sooo, in conjunction with a recent Europe trip, I noticed a lack of expected Ukrainian working girls that I hoped to find in Central Europe. Therefore, upon my return home, I began to look at the current status of bordering crossings into western Ukraine, along with the prevalence of wartime violence in western areas. As you all were probably already aware, it's pretty quiet out west and border crossings are all open. So, after reading some postings in the General Info and Other Areas sections of this board, I checked out UKRGo dot com to see what was on offer. My thought is to possibly visit Lviv, entering from eastern Poland. My thought was to contact working girls in Kiev in order to refine my contact approach. I sent messages via my Czech Republic WhatsApp number, without a face photo on the profile. I also wrote to the girls in Ukrainian (using Google translate) in order to muddy my American origin. I wrote to 6 girls in Kiev and 2 girls in Lviv. I noticed there were multiple profiles of different girls with the same numbers. Does that mean they are just completely fake profiles or are they "agencies" that provide multiple girls? Anyway, I tried to get to pricing as quickly as possible before they started to ask where I'm located or where I'm from. I told one girl I was in a small town on the Ukrainian side of the border but that I was coming to Kiev for our appointment. I also told each girl that I was willing to pay 1500 UAH for a short time (1-2 hours) or 3000 UAH for overnight. Most girls seemed to want 2400 UAH for an hour. Although one sent me what appeared to be a set price list: 1200 UAH / HR sex; 700 UAH BJ only; 3200 UAH for overnight. These seem like pretty fair prices. Would you guys with pre-war experience in Ukraine agree. Is that a good price point or should I negotiate down more? There were also some prices to buy content which of course I am not interested in. Anxious to hear wisdom from the vets. Thanks in advance![/QUOTE]FWIW, "prevalence of wartime violence in western areas" is a misleading metric. All of Ukraine is a war zone. That's because there is no part of Ukraine that is not within range of Russian missiles, bombs, and drones. It's a false sense of security to think that everything will be fine because the physical battlefield isn't close by.

The fact that a particular area isn't currently experiencing bombardment is no guarantee that it won't. Things can change in an instant and the people who make the attack decisions, namely Putin and his generals, are not in the habit of giving advance notice.

Here's a timeline of attacks that have targeted the Lviv area:

[URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022%E2%80%932023_bombing_of_Lviv[/URL]

Kyiv has been attacked on many more occasions. So much so that I couldn't find a single timeline of Kyiv attacks. Every article I looked at dealt with barrages that happened on specific dates. But take the Lviv info as a baseline, and multiply it many times over. Maybe another forum member has an article or site with a good list of dates and locations of Kyiv attacks. If so, please share.

The fact that barrages are not happening right now could have a few possible explanations. Maybe Russia is running low on missiles? Maybe they're saving their missiles for use against Ukrainian forces during the counterattack that many believe will be launched this Spring? Or maybe they're stockpiling missiles to use in barrages on dates that have high symbolic value (like May 9th)?

The point is that nobody knows. And nobody has a crystal ball. So, for anyone who doesn't absolutely need to be in Ukraine right now, you're essentially rolling the dice. Maybe those dice will roll in your favor, or maybe they won't. It's truly a crapshoot!

Everyone is certainly entitled to decide for themselves if the risk is worth it. But how bizarre would it be to find oneself on the wrong side of a missile bombardment, all for the sake of a little pussy? Especially since pussy is a commodity readily found worldwide.

And, while I certainly understand that the odds of being in the wrong place at the wrong time may be low. It's worth remembering that all or most of the people who have been killed in past attacks probably felt the same way. A quick web search on the topic will show cars destroyed in the middle of the street, burned out residential buildings, shredded shopping areas, and decimated transit stops. Those people probably felt the odds were in their favor. May they rest in peace.

As I've stated previously, I lived in Kyiv for eight years. Before the Revolution of Dignity, during and after. And eventually left Ukraine days after Putin's misadventure commenced. I'm sure mongering in Kyiv is different now as compared to February 23,2002, but in what ways I can only guess as I'm now too long out of Ukraine. What I can do is relate to you my experiences with women in Ukraine before the war and try to make assumptions of what might be happening now.

First, I never once used an escort agency in Ukraine. I never trusted them and thought their prices were too inflated. There was enough independent girls online that escort services were superfluous, especially since I was living full-time in the capital city. I even sponsored a university girl I met worked my at a Silpo in Shuliavska.

With that said, let's get to the numbers. You mentioned girls are asking 2400 UAH for one hour and which works out to be about 65 USD. For a girl in the capital, that's a very fair price, some might suggest even cheap. However, that's the price point where you could be pleasantly surprised or disappointed when you actually meet her. In eight years, I only agreed to meet three women at that price range and while they were certainly worth a fuck, they were not repeat material. All university girls, by the way, but you'll find single mothers who live in villages near Kyiv willing to come in the city and fuck you for that price.

In general, the prices you mentioned would not get you much in Kyiv before the war, and you have to be ready to be disappointed as it's really hit and miss.

Any quality university girl I sponsored wanted 100 USD minimum per meeting. I could have gotten cheaper but I wanted a quality piece of ass. A much hotter girl or woman wanted 150 USD.

Now there is a war on. This has to be taken into consideration. Many women have left and many foreign men, too (although my contacts have recently told me many foreigners have returned). What this has done to the market is both intriguing and uncertain. I hope to visit myself in autumn and see what's happening and write a report.

My final advice? If you have the time, try meeting some of those girls at the prices you mentioned and who knows what you'll find, but don't limit yourself. Try the Tinder and Mamba app while in Kyiv and see what's out there. I found some cheap but good fucks on Mamba but on Tinder there are usually more expensive yet higher quality women. In fact, the sexiest woman I sponsored or fucked while in Kyiv I found on Tinder and wanted 150 USD per meeting and was worth every penny. I found a stunning, full figured teen redhead in university on Mamba for 100 USD per meeting but she couldn't meet as often as I wanted to.

Last piece of advice, find a flat or hotel beside a metro station in case of a missile attack. This is their reality.

Thank you for your well thought out response. This was exactly the insight I was hoping for. Not worth traveling so far out of my way and into danger for such meager (at best) savings.

[QUOTE=Gopnik;2811331]As I've stated previously, I lived in Kyiv for eight years. Before the Revolution of Dignity, during and after. And eventually left Ukraine days after Putin's misadventure commenced. I'm sure mongering in Kyiv is different now as compared to February 23,2002, but in what ways I can only guess as I'm now too long out of Ukraine. What I can do is relate to you my experiences with women in Ukraine before the war and try to make assumptions of what might be happening now.

First, I never once used an escort agency in Ukraine. I never trusted them and thought their prices were too inflated. There was enough independent girls online that escort services were superfluous, especially since I was living full-time in the capital city. I even sponsored a university girl I met worked my at a Silpo in Shuliavska.

With that said, let's get to the numbers. You mentioned girls are asking 2400 UAH for one hour and which works out to be about 65 USD. For a girl in the capital, that's a very fair price, some might suggest even cheap. However, that's the price point where you could be pleasantly surprised or disappointed when you actually meet her. In eight years, I only agreed to meet three women at that price range and while they were certainly worth a fuck, they were not repeat material. All university girls, by the way, but you'll find single mothers who live in villages near Kyiv willing to come in the city and fuck you for that price.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Gopnik;2811331]First, I never once used an escort agency in Ukraine. I never trusted them and thought their prices were too inflated. There was enough independent girls online that escort services were superfluous, especially since I was living full-time in the capital city. I even sponsored a university girl I met worked my at a Silpo in Shuliavska..[/QUOTE]I used GIA over 50 times, now called escort. Vc.

I don't use it any more because:

1- now they charge you to see photos of girls.

2- many fake photos.

3- their prices are way too high, forget it, its doubled.

4- their operator is now a DICK, dumbass.

[QUOTE=JoeKarnavic;2804638]There are no brothels or RLD in Dubai. You will find lot of Ukranian girls in Clubs like Czar or Red Square in Moscow hotel. You have to take them to your hotels or apartments. You will find them also on Massage Republic where you can meet them in their apartments. Tinder is full of them. After war in Ukraine the Russians and Ukranian girls have multiplied in numbers in Dubai.[/QUOTE]Whats their price range in Clubs like Czar or Red Square in Moscow hotel in Dubai?

[QUOTE=Muddy7;2816159]Whats their price range in Clubs like Czar or Red Square in Moscow hotel in Dubai?[/QUOTE]From a club. Anywhere from 1000 AED (approx 280 USD) through to 2000 aed. For a LT (which does usually only translate to 3 or 4 hours.

Massage Republic you can check yourself. But circa 1200 AED for 1 hour.

Head over to the UAE forums to check it out. Frequent updates.

[QUOTE=GentlemanTravel;2784277]So where are these hot ex-pat non-pro women now? Poland? Romania? And how can we connect with them? Are there Ukrainian web-sites or networks where you can meet Ukrainian women who have relocated to Europe or America?[/QUOTE]They are all over European cities having the time of their lives. They are scamming local men who don't know the Ukrainian girl character and motives. These women go on dating apps meet guys get taken to expensive restaurants, bars, holidays even. And they dont offer any sex. They only want to use your wallet.

In the last year I've met this type of Ukrainian girls in Berlin, Warsaw, Krakow, Barcelona, London and Tbilisi. I know their game because I have been to Ukraine several times before the war. This is what typically happens:

You match, chat a bit, suggest meeting, she plays dumb and doesn't know this city, but she loves seafood or steak. Gullible local guy takes her out spends a lot on her. They continue chatting. Same on second date third date. And she is doing this to multiple men.

One example is in Berlin there are many Ukrainians. I matched agreed to meet and decide what to do. I took her to an ordinary cafe. Because I know she is very likely out to scam me if she can. After we go for a walk and she pops into pharmacy and gets lots of stuff. Suddenly her card doesn't work. She asks me if I can help buy medicine, hardly any medicine there, mostly cosmetic stuff. I say no sorry you'll have to sort your card out then do your shopping. We exit the pharmacy walk, she says she got a message must go and hops onto tram. Within 5 minutes I'm unmatched and blocked. Cunts. Relatively rich local guys are getting used by these 'poor refugee' girls.

Why do I go on these dates if I know what these women are about? There is a small chance you can establish contact keep in touch and she may take her pants down. And I have fucked two like this but only because I tempted them with a possible holiday in a few weeks time. Then regrettably my employer refused me the time off. Hahahaha ; )

Be careful with Ukrainian girls in European cities. Because old habits die hard and these girls are the most manipulative and cunning in the whole world.

[QUOTE=Rugga;2832403]They are all over European cities having the time of their lives. They are scamming local men who don't know the Ukrainian girl character and motives. These women go on dating apps meet guys get taken to expensive restaurants, bars, holidays even. And they dont offer any sex. They only want to use your wallet.

In the last year I've met this type of Ukrainian girls in Berlin, Warsaw, Krakow, Barcelona, London and Tbilisi. I know their game because I have been to Ukraine several times before the war. This is what typically happens:

You match, chat a bit, suggest meeting, she plays dumb and doesn't know this city, but she loves seafood or steak. Gullible local guy takes her out spends a lot on her. They continue chatting. Same on second date third date. And she is doing this to multiple men.

One example is in Berlin there are many Ukrainians. I matched agreed to meet and decide what to do. I took her to an ordinary cafe. Because I know she is very likely out to scam me if she can. After we go for a walk and she pops into pharmacy and gets lots of stuff. Suddenly her card doesn't work. She asks me if I can help buy medicine, hardly any medicine there, mostly cosmetic stuff. I say no sorry you'll have to sort your card out then do your shopping. We exit the pharmacy walk, she says she got a message must go and hops onto tram. Within 5 minutes I'm unmatched and blocked. Cunts. Relatively rich local guys are getting used by these 'poor refugee' girls..[/QUOTE]Yep, but this has been going on for over 10 years now. The hot chicks left years ago, sorry this is the truth.

Very sad what has happened to Ukraine over the last decade and the war / corruption is destroying a great country.

Though nothing new, I do think this is valuable to remember and I fully support this post. I love Slavic women. But many are snakes. Look, if your only goal is sex or sponsorship, don't play games. As Ralph Fiennes character in Schindler's List says: "We're not going to argue with these people. " Take them for a first meeting to Starbucks or a restaurant of your choosing. Make sure she understands no money until she's alone and naked with you. Don't think with your dick only. If she's hot but seems a headache, drop her as it will never be worth it. Be a man. You don't have to be rude but you do have to be firm. Ukrainian women like men who have a backbone and loathe soft men they can stomp on.

When I was living in Kyiv, which I did for eight years until the war began, I on many occasions suggested a restaurant to a woman. If she began with the 'I don't like that place', I'the retort 'OK! No problem. If you change your mind, let me know and we can meet' because a good girl doesn't give a flying you know what where you meet as long as she thinks you are serious about supporting her.

LOL, guy around the world needs to stop being pushover really: 1 drink with a girl should mean sex.

Just buy her a drink, and then tell her that if she drinks from it, you go straight back to your room right after.

No meet up unless there are sex involved if you talk in advance.

These things should be the global norm!

Take a stance guys! Don't be such prudes!

Case closed.

I keep hearing about Ukrainians returning home at least to visit family.

Does anyone know if the strip clubs, the offer of ladies and not least the prices are generally the same as before the war?

The air defense in Kiev is said to be quite good, so perhaps more people will eventually take the chance to visit Kiev?

My contacts usually take the train from Warsaw.

[QUOTE=James006;2848180]I keep hearing about Ukrainians returning home at least to visit family.

Does anyone know if the strip clubs, the offer of ladies and not least the prices are generally the same as before the war?

The air defense in Kiev is said to be quite good, so perhaps more people will eventually take the chance to visit Kiev?

My contacts usually take the train from Warsaw.[/QUOTE]Prices are higher, and there is still plenty of action to be had.

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[QUOTE=Riina;2791515]If you're in north America, forget about Ukrainians. It's just not there. Kazak girls are getting visas into the country. Most are Asian but some are white Russian. Real needy girls too, just have to know where to look.[/QUOTE]And how would I come into contact with such girls? Ukrainian / Kazaks? I'm in the east coast.

Hi.

Does anyone have information or connection with girls in Ukraine who will travel to another cities (Warsaw, Budapest, ect.) to do several days escort?

Thanks for the help!

[QUOTE=EuroTravel1234;2858420]Hi.

Does anyone have information or connection with girls in Ukraine who will travel to another cities (Warsaw, Budapest, ect.) to do several days escort?

Thanks for the help![/QUOTE]There are agencies that will arrange this for a hefty price. The best way however is to have visited Kyiv and built a rapport with some escorts there, when they trust you, they'll happily travel to meet up. It does however mean you'll have to do some work on the ground first.

[QUOTE=VinDici;2858741]There are agencies that will arrange this for a hefty price. The best way however is to have visited Kyiv and built a rapport with some escorts there, when they trust you, they'll happily travel to meet up. It does however mean you'll have to do some work on the ground first.[/QUOTE]Can you share any agency contact information? If you know any.

Thanks.

With all the talk about the war in Ukraine coming closer and closer to an end I felt like exploring Tinder in Kyiv again and got premium for a month.

And boy oh boy. Seems like there was no war in Kyiv at all. I was kinda lowkey hoping for girls being a bit more desparate and easy going to match and meet but it seems the Tinder scene in Kyiv is actually quite tough these days. Anyone else has the same experience?

Seems to me that people in Kyiv are doing great and life is as usual to them.

Thought I'd give you some information from my stay in Kiev.

Most restaurants close at 22:00. Some at 23:00.

I have visited the strip clubs Dolls, Princess and Penthous. They close at 22:00 precisely. On Fridays they are open 30/60 minutes longer. But no later than 23:00.

It is a completely different Kiev that meets you now.

There is a curfew and a ban on being out after midnight. Uber taxi stops driving at 22:00 but there are others like Uklon who run at staggering prices.

The ladies and the clubs are nowhere near what they were. Princess knocks out Doll's many notches.

Dolls opens at 15:00 for those who have days off. All the girls at Dolls drooled on an escort to hotel. I understood the costs is 8,000 local for 2 hours. Princess has an hour deal for 6000. But not everyone goes out. There is depression in the air and meeting a smile is rare.

A private dance at Dolls was 600, I. E. 100 more expensive than before and Princess has raised the price to 800. I mean to remember that they were 600 before.

Does anyone know a taxi driver who can take a few trips to and from the massage parlors for a decent price?

Tinder is full of African / black ladies between Ukrainian glamor models. .

The alarm to seek cover goes off several times a day / night and it is clear that this affects the environment. Most people don't care and is tired of running for coverage. In other words, it looks like the population has lost some of their will to live?

To be here is an interesting experience, but not very sexy!

Be smarter than the girl and you'll have no problem. The best sex I've ever had in my life was with two drop dead gorgeous Ukrainians, one in Kyiv, one a student in a major European city. I paid both, they weren't cheap and I'd do it again tomorrow. We went where I wanted to go, did leisure things that I wanted, ate what I wanted, and slept where I wanted. I wouldn't say I have expensive take but I am willing to pay for unique experiences. Watching a 22 yr old girl experience her first 9 course tasting menu is priceless in my book and pays huge dividends layer on on the night. It's all about the experience fuck the cost.

[QUOTE=Rugga;2832403]They are all over European cities having the time of their lives. They are scamming local men who don't know the Ukrainian girl character and motives. These women go on dating apps meet guys get taken to expensive restaurants, bars, holidays even. And they dont offer any sex. They only want to use your wallet.

In the last year I've met this type of Ukrainian girls in Berlin, Warsaw, Krakow, Barcelona, London and Tbilisi. I know their game because I have been to Ukraine several times before the war. This is what typically happens:

You match, chat a bit, suggest meeting, she plays dumb and doesn't know this city, but she loves seafood or steak. Gullible local guy takes her out spends a lot on her. They continue chatting. Same on second date third date. And she is doing this to multiple men.

One example is in Berlin there are many Ukrainians. I matched agreed to meet and decide what to do. I took her to an ordinary cafe. Because I know she is very likely out to scam me if she can. After we go for a walk and she pops into pharmacy and gets lots of stuff. Suddenly her card doesn't work. She asks me if I can help buy medicine, hardly any medicine there, mostly cosmetic stuff. I say no sorry you'll have to sort your card out then do your shopping. We exit the pharmacy walk, she says she got a message must go and hops onto tram. Within 5 minutes I'm unmatched and blocked. Cunts. Relatively rich local guys are getting used by these 'poor refugee' girls.

Why do I go on these dates if I know what these women are about? There is a small chance you can establish contact keep in touch and she may take her pants down. And I have fucked two like this but only because I tempted them with a possible holiday in a few weeks time. Then regrettably my employer refused me the time off. Hahahaha ; )

Be careful with Ukrainian girls in European cities. Because old habits die hard and these girls are the most manipulative and cunning in the whole world.[/QUOTE]

Kyiv is undoubtedly the city with the highest working girl density I have ever visited. Before the war, there were plenty of nightclubs and bars where all these girls gathered.

I am of the opinion that it is still very easy to meet working girls in Kyiv. Many foreign journalists and other foreigners are in Kyiv at the moment and as noble and philanthropic as their work seems to be, it seems that even some of them find it hard to resist Ukrainian femininity.

In my opinion, tinder and mamba work great for finding girls. But even the classic nightclubs were very easy. Or as the writer below points out the strip clubs like Princess. I find it hard to relate when I read some people say that it is very difficult to find girls in Kyiv. But I'm not old either and maybe my appearance is on the better side. It might help some. ?

I would not say that traveling to Kyiv today is safe. They are at war, after all. But it's also not dangerous to be in the city in my opinion.

[QUOTE=MickyHow;2897230]In my opinion, tinder and mamba work great for finding girls. But even the classic nightclubs were very easy. [/QUOTE]Which clubs are the best for picking up girls?

[QUOTE=VinDici;2897332]Which clubs are the best for picking up girls?[/QUOTE]Before or after the war started?

Given the current situation, my actual knowledge of Kiev is better pre-war than post-war. The nightlife is also not quite the same at the moment as they have a curfew.

Below illustrates only my experience and perception and I am well aware that it may not be the same perception as others.

As always, I think you have to work with your own expectations.

It is of course possible to find girls who charge 100 and look OK. This has happened to me as well. But I think in general those times are over.

I had for some time regular contact with a really hot girl. Definitely a 9+. She told me that when it came to tourists she always played with them to get as much money as possible. But for locals it was a different price because they can never afford to pay the amounts that tourists can. I always got a discount from her and paid 100. She is very stunning hot, you know one of those girls that guys literally stop in the street to look at her. She may not have been the best in bed though, but her looks made up for that part.

So you can definitely find girls for 100. But I think you have to be prepared for the asking price to be 200-300 for 2-3 hours. If you do not have the financial possibilities, the market will of course be smaller.

Pre-war Kiev was definitely a very popular mongering city for foreigners. Being a foreigner can sometimes have advantages and sometimes disadvantages. At some nightclubs, the local crew in front of me has been denied entrance at the door because of their clothing, while myself have been politely welcomed despite very causal clothing. This is the jargon that goes around in Kiev and other countries as well for that matter.

But back to your original question about nightclubs and bars.

* But the former the*Lux or the. Fleur as it was renamed was a pretty safe bet. However, now permanently closed and do not know if anything new opened there.

* Buddha bar which was basically next door to the strip club princess was a well known spot for working girls. However, it closed for renovation and did not reopen before the war started, therefore still closed.

* Arena city if you feel comfortable hanging out in the same bars as local gangsters. But Skye bar is a well known nightclub where I think the reputation is a bit exaggerated. Again, it is possible to find working girls in many places and also at Skye bar but all are definitely not working girls there. I think it is quite overhyped as a nightclub but the girls are good looking. Quite many middle age Turks there as well trying to hit on 20 year old girls.

* Then I think massage parlors are quite underrated in Kiev. There are very many that are really good in Kiev. Of course, the service varies greatly from salon to salon. It has also happened that I have been kissed and even managed to get the phone number from the masseuse, maybe I was just lucky though.

* The rooftop bars in luxury hotels are also very underrated. Especially in the summer but it can of course be expensive with all the alcohol. In the largest hotels, you can sometimes find working girls in the lobby.

* and lastly, Mamba and Tinder. I found girls who offer full service including anal.

And yeah, Ukrainians are not known for smiling.

[QUOTE=MickyHow;2897453]Before or after the war started?[/QUOTE]Great write up, appreciate the intel.

[QUOTE=MickyHow;2897453]

Pre-war Kiev was definitely a very popular mongering city for foreigners.
[/QUOTE]No, it was not. Straight decline on a mongering level after 2012. Very hard to find a semi pro by 2015. By 2016, the city was flooded with affluent Western young people. Mongering in Ukraine is over and whatever remains will be a shell.

I wouldn't call it easy at all. Strippers / pros are available and I've made connections with a couple but it wasn't easy or cheap.

[QUOTE=Riina;2897706]No, it was not. Straight decline on a mongering level after 2012. Very hard to find a semi pro by 2015. By 2016, the city was flooded with affluent Western young people. Mongering in Ukraine is over and whatever remains will be a shell.[/QUOTE]

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[QUOTE=VinDici;2897796]

I have been actively mongering in Kyiv before and after the Russian invasion, and there is plenty on offer. Good service is easy to find if you do your research, there is much information here. Lot's of the classic venues are closed due to the curfew, however there are still many salons operating as well as an abundance of indies to cater for many tastes.[/QUOTE]This guy has an airbnb for you to book in Kiev. No problem misleading a brother for a few dollars.

[QUOTE=Riina;2897706]No, it was not. Straight decline on a mongering level after 2012. Very hard to find a semi pro by 2015. By 2016, the city was flooded with affluent Western young people. Mongering in Ukraine is over and whatever remains will be a shell.[/QUOTE]I remember the days of River Palace during its hay day and an amazing escort agency by the name of Vodka Escort where I would book 12 to 24 hours of escort service in Odessa and Kyiv.

All distant memories now.

[QUOTE=MickyHow;2897453]* and lastly, Mamba and Tinder. I found girls who offer full service including anal.

And yeah, Ukrainians are not known for smiling.[/QUOTE]Are you guys outright asking girls on tinder if they're hookers? What if the girl reports you for being unsafe? I mean, it's pretty hard to get a match on Tinder because most of the time the girl will never see your profile unless you pay. And, even then.

[QUOTE=Kozerog;2899243]Let's all wish Dave good luck.[/QUOTE]This is sad to hear, I wish him well.

It looks like Dolls just closed.

I can recommend Tootsie (next to Rio). All the girls I have talk to so far are available to join you in your hotel / home. Usually it's $300/$400 for 3 hours. I have met a few girls with an 1 and 2 hour option as well, but most of them will only go for 3 hours. The lineup was very bad in the beginning of the war, but it's getting better now.

You can also meet girls at some of the fancy bars. I saw a very attractive girl at Boho. She was with a group of friends, so when I approach her she told me that she is not a girl like that. 20 min later she walked up to me and gave me her number, and told me to msg her the next day. I met her later on and paid $300 per hour. I found her Instagram account with 75 k followers pretending she is some kind of model.

[QUOTE=MickyHow;2897230]Kyiv is undoubtedly the city with the highest working girl density I have ever visited. Before the war, there were plenty of nightclubs and bars where all these girls gathered.

I am of the opinion that it is still very easy to meet working girls in Kyiv. Many foreign journalists and other foreigners are in Kyiv at the moment and as noble and philanthropic as their work seems to be, it seems that even some of them find it hard to resist Ukrainian femininity.

In my opinion, tinder and mamba work great for finding girls. But even the classic nightclubs were very easy. Or as the writer below points out the strip clubs like Princess. I find it hard to relate when I read some people say that it is very difficult to find girls in Kyiv. But I'm not old either and maybe my appearance is on the better side. It might help some. ?

I would not say that traveling to Kyiv today is safe. They are at war, after all. But it's also not dangerous to be in the city in my opinion.[/QUOTE]Then you have clearly never heard of the philippines or thailand. Finding working girls in Kiev is very intransparent in my experience.

Sad news for those who have been fond of Dolls in Kiev.

The club is now closed permanently.

Harem has, however, reopened after being closed for a while.

I thought some of the girls from Dolls would be in Harem, but no.

Princess.

Private dance 600, erotic massage+ 3,000 and minimum 2 hours to hotel 8,000.

The girls at Princess are, in my opinion, a bit prettier than at Harem. But there is 800 for a private dance and I think 6,000 for an hour at the hotel, but not everyone agrees to visit the hotel.

Princess also has some food on the menu, which in these times when restaurants close at 10 pm Is a plus. The food was good and not prohibitively expensive.

Thinking of visiting the other clubs, massage studios and private apartments. Trying to get the overview. Anyone with updated information?

The prices here in combination with worse service and less delicate girls make this town worse and worse. The good girls have found other places to spread their legs. There is no doubt.

I miss clubs to pick up girls where you can see and chat a bit before making a deal. But 300 $ for short time session is way too much I think. Many by 3-400 $ for 3 hours with a Tootsie girl still is quite good deal here?

The young girls who advertise often turn out to be much older than stated in the ad. There is too much uncertainty about who will show up at the door when ordering an escort. And you have to pay dearly for their taxi even before 10 pm. I got an offer of 4,000 hryvnias for a taxi after 22.00 Ha ha.

The curfew is not before 00:00.

In the past, the local taxi drivers had information about addresses of apartments with girls. Now they seem completely ignorant.

This was all I could share for now. Hope others come with some good news.

I'll stay in Kyiv for some nights. Unfortunately I'll be very busy, will have no time to check out clubs.

What 4* or 5* hotel has a good bar where I can find pretty service girls? Presently I have a booking for Hilton Kyiv, but can still change.

Cost of the girls isn't my main issue, more regarding beauty, time-saving and comfort.

Thanks).

[QUOTE=KyivHookers;2922322]What 4* or 5* hotel has a good bar where I can find pretty service girls? Presently I have a booking for Hilton Kyiv, but can still change.[/QUOTE]Finding girls in hotels bars will be very hard. You could book Hotel Khreschatyk Kyiv. Princess stripclub is in the basement. Some of the girls offer escort service.

11 Mirrors Design Hotel is right next to Tootsie. All the girls there will do escort.

I walked in the shade of the trees at KPI park to escape the Kyiv summer heat before heading over to Smart Plaza. Fuck it was hot! A lot of pretty young birds walking solo or in small groups. At the mall I struck up a conversation with a few girls but nothing came of it. I left the mall and came upon three women of university age smoking on a bench near the metro station. They spoke English and I gave them my mobile number telling them if they wanted to meet for drinks or have a party to contact me. They smiled politely and took my number.

That evening one of them texted me via viber in Russian and I invited her to meet for a drink at a café. She told me her name was Anna and she was 18 and studying and working in Kyiv at a McDonalds. We met for a cold drink at Kosmopolit Mall and talked for a bit. Anna was looking pretty and had a healthy rack for a young woman. I told her I was living and working in Kyiv and she asked me directly what I wanted and I told her I would like romantic meetings with a girl like her for financial gifts. She agreed. I watched Anna get up and walk to the bathroom and liked what I saw. When she returned, we took a taxi to my flat in the center. We had some whisky (she mixed hers with cola) and we agreed on 4,000 UAH per meeting and told her there would be plenty where that came from if she were a good girlfriend. We got a little drunk and started kissing. I told her before I paid her I wanted to see her naked and if I liked what I saw we could proceed. Anna did not disappoint. I got a little unsettled when air raid sirens went off while she was sucking on me but Anna kept at it like a good girl. We'll meet again this week.

I had another stroke of luck recently and I'll post about it later. Here are a few photos of Anna I got from her viber.

[QUOTE=Gopnik;2926943]I walked in the shade of the trees at KPI park to escape the Kyiv summer heat before heading over to Smart Plaza. Fuck it was hot! A lot of pretty young birds walking solo or in small groups. At the mall I struck up a conversation with a few girls but nothing came of it. I left the mall and came upon three women of university age smoking on a bench near the metro station. They spoke English and I gave them my mobile number telling them if they wanted to meet for drinks or have a party to contact me. They smiled politely and took my number.

That evening one of them texted me via viber in Russian and I invited her to meet for a drink at a caf. She told me her name was Anna and she was 18 and studying and working in Kyiv at a McDonalds. We met for a cold drink at Kosmopolit Mall and talked for a bit. Anna was looking pretty and had a healthy rack for a young woman. I told her I was living and working in Kyiv and she asked me directly what I wanted and I told her I would like romantic meetings with a girl like her for financial gifts. She agreed. I watched Anna get up and walk to the bathroom and liked what I saw. When she returned, we took a taxi to my flat in the center. We had some whisky (she mixed hers with cola) and we agreed on 4,000 UAH per meeting and told her there would be plenty where that came from if she were a good girlfriend. We got a little drunk and started kissing. I told her before I paid her I wanted to see her naked and if I liked what I saw we could proceed. Anna did not disappoint. I got a little unsettled when air raid sirens went off while she was sucking on me but Anna kept at it like a good girl. We'll meet again this week.

I had another stroke of luck recently and I'll post about it later. Here are a few photos of Anna I got from her viber.[/QUOTE]Kiev is changing, but there is still a lot of room for romance and support of young birds in need. Thanks for writing and keep seeking out the birds.

[QUOTE=Gopnik;2926943]I walked in the shade of the trees at KPI park to escape the Kyiv summer heat before heading over to Smart Plaza.[/QUOTE]Do you have any more authentic type photos of clearly a cutie with a monger. Like this one.

[QUOTE=Gopnik;2926943]I walked in the shade of the trees at KPI park to escape the Kyiv summer heat before heading over to Smart Plaza. [/QUOTE]Any photos like this?

The girls at Prinsess strip club give you hopes that you can take them out to your hotel. They would like to have a drink or two and discuss the matter. All warning lights should light up here. While they either pour the drink or leave it completely untouched, you find that under no circumstances do they go out with customers. A sneaky way to earn a little extra from naive customers.

Previously, the girls and the administration played with open cards, now you have to go through a game to find out what possibilities can be agreed. You will waste time and money and the probability of success is minimal. There were two ladies who went to the hotel, but they were uninteresting to us.

I have visited this club many times and spent a fortune in the private rooms, but I have never experienced that the girls keep a distance of two meters when they give private dances. So what's the point?

This does not apply to everyone, but several do it this way now and the administrator looks at you stupidly if you complain.

With such a poor offer in Kiev as it is now, many end up at the strip clubs to at least be able to look at the goods before making an agreement for something more. And there will hardly be anything more.

The ladies in apartments are really miserable, the photos of the ladies who advertise on escort sites are of models that do not exist on the market and after up to several non-fuckables show up at your door who do not in any way resemble the woman you picked as your favorite, then many of us jump into a taxi and visit the agency and look at the line-up in the hope that there is still some gold. Unfortunately, this is also a downfall.

Also the massage parlors, which until recently had some young beautiful girls, now have a very low level in terms of beauty and delicate selection.

The famous pretty Ukrainian girls can be found in the streets on their way to and from shopping etc. But while we used to pick up ladies in various places they have now shut down and seem disinterested.

I have never worked so hard for so little!

Tootsie has some ladies who go to the hotel but with 300 Euro for 2 hours and 400 for three hours you have to be reasonably desperate. The most beautiful ladies do not go to hotels and only give private dances for 900 grivna for approx. 3 minutes.

The strip club Harem has never had so many dancers with big asses.

Our group had little success with Tinder and in the past we have had a pretty good response.

There are clearly fewer girls in circulation and they have probably grown tired of the war situation and found happiness elsewhere.

Kiev is now one of the worst places for our hoppy in Europe and in addition you have the risk of the war.

Even so, there are many tourists looking for ladies. Is there an alternative market somewhere that we haven't caught on to?

[QUOTE=James006;2932912]The girls at Prinsess strip club give you hopes that you can take them out to your hotel. They would like to have a drink or two and discuss the matter. All warning lights should light up here. While they either pour the drink or leave it completely untouched, you find that under no circumstances do they go out with customers. A sneaky way to earn a little extra from naive customers.

Previously, the girls and the administration played with open cards, now you have to go through a game to find out what possibilities can be agreed. You will waste time and money and the probability of success is minimal. There were two ladies who went to the hotel, but they were uninteresting to us.

I have visited this club many times and spent a fortune in the private rooms, but I have never experienced that the girls keep a distance of two meters when they give private dances. So what's the point?

This does not apply to everyone, but several do it this way now and the administrator looks at you stupidly if you complain.

With such a poor offer in Kiev as it is now, many end up at the strip clubs to at least be able to look at the goods before making an agreement for something more. And there will hardly be anything more.

The ladies in apartments are really miserable, the photos of the ladies who advertise on escort sites are of models that do not exist on the market and after up to several non-fuckables show up at your door who do not in any way resemble the woman you picked as your favorite, then many of us jump into a taxi and visit the agency and look at the line-up in the hope that there is still some gold. Unfortunately, this is also a downfall.

Also the massage parlors, which until recently had some young beautiful girls, now have a very low level in terms of beauty and delicate selection.

The famous pretty Ukrainian girls can be found in the streets on their way to and from shopping etc. But while we used to pick up ladies in various places they have now shut down and seem disinterested.

I have never worked so hard for so little!

Tootsie has some ladies who go to the hotel but with 300 Euro for 2 hours and 400 for three hours you have to be reasonably desperate. The most beautiful ladies do not go to hotels and only give private dances for 900 grivna for approx. 3 minutes.

The strip club Harem has never had so many dancers with big asses.

Our group had little success with Tinder and in the past we have had a pretty good response.

There are clearly fewer girls in circulation and they have probably grown tired of the war situation and found happiness elsewhere.

Kiev is now one of the worst places for our hoppy in Europe and in addition you have the risk of the war.

Even so, there are many tourists looking for ladies. Is there an alternative market somewhere that we haven't caught on to?[/QUOTE]Why is any of this a surprise to you, there is a war going on. Kiev has been the worst place world for over a decade, some people never learn.

Yes, you are right.

Decline started a long time ago, but now it's really really bad. I just wanted to give you a recent update. Sorry that it was so negative, but that's how it is.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2932921]Why is any of this a surprise to you, there is a war going on. Kiev has been the worst place world for over a decade, some people never learn.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=James006;2932912]The girls at Prinsess strip club give you hopes that you can take them out to your hotel. They would like to have a drink or two and discuss the matter. All warning lights should light up here. While they either pour the drink or leave it completely untouched, you find that under no circumstances do they go out with customers. A sneaky way to earn a little extra from naive customers.

Previously, the girls and the administration played with open cards, now you have to go through a game to find out what possibilities can be agreed. You will waste time and money and the probability of success is minimal. There were two ladies who went to the hotel, but they were uninteresting to us.[/QUOTE]Beautiful, active girls have gone to Europe and are now spreading their legs there. There are 200,000 Ukrainian prostitutes in Berlin alone. So yes, the country is dying, there will be a demographic crisis, and we can forget about beautiful Ukrainian women, because the entire gene pool has gone to Europe.

[QUOTE=Gopnik;2926943]I walked in the shade of the trees at KPI park to escape the Kyiv summer heat before heading over to Smart Plaza. Fuck it was hot! A lot of pretty young birds walking solo or in small groups. At the mall I struck up a conversation with a few girls but nothing came of it. I left the mall and came upon three women of university age smoking on a bench near the metro station. They spoke English and I gave them my mobile number telling them if they wanted to meet for drinks or have a party to contact me. They smiled politely and took my number.

That evening one of them texted me via viber in Russian and I invited her to meet for a drink at a caf. She told me her name was Anna and she was 18 and studying and working in Kyiv at a McDonalds. We met for a cold drink at Kosmopolit Mall and talked for a bit. Anna was looking pretty and had a healthy rack for a young woman. I told her I was living and working in Kyiv and she asked me directly what I wanted and I told her I would like romantic meetings with a girl like her for financial gifts. She agreed. I watched Anna get up and walk to the bathroom and liked what I saw. When she returned, we took a taxi to my flat in the center. We had some whisky (she mixed hers with cola) and we agreed on 4,000 UAH per meeting and told her there would be plenty where that came from if she were a good girlfriend. We got a little drunk and started kissing. I told her before I paid her I wanted to see her naked and if I liked what I saw we could proceed. Anna did not disappoint. I got a little unsettled when air raid sirens went off while she was sucking on me but Anna kept at it like a good girl. We'll meet again this week.

I had another stroke of luck recently and I'll post about it later. Here are a few photos of Anna I got from her viber.[/QUOTE]Before the pandemic, it was like that. You may even find a normal GF inside the McDonald too. I was too chicken to go back since the "what" happened. Maybe I should go back, I heard its not too bad, most of the people told me that its more likely you get stabbed and robbed or die in traffic accidents in San Francisco than you die in Ukraine. I can believe that now. I'm in Russia now but not much lucks, I had to use translator the while time on dates. Not as many people speak English here. Or I just haven't met them. I will plan on going to Belarus to check out a few things and then head to Poland and then go to Livi and then take a train to Kyiv to check out things.

[QUOTE=BobSmith1;2956629]Before the pandemic, it was like that. You may even find a normal GF inside the McDonald too. I was too chicken to go back since the "what" happened. Maybe I should go back, I heard its not too bad, most of the people told me that its more likely you get stabbed and robbed or die in traffic accidents in San Francisco than you die in Ukraine. I can believe that now. I'm in Russia now but not much lucks, I had to use translator the while time on dates. Not as many people speak English here. Or I just haven't met them. I will plan on going to Belarus to check out a few things and then head to Poland and then go to Livi and then take a train to Kyiv to check out things.[/QUOTE]I heard there could be some problems at Ukrainian border if you have Russian or Belarus stamps on your passport, but I'm not sure.

[QUOTE=AntonySun1996;2956683]I heard there could be some problems at Ukrainian border if you have Russian or Belarus stamps on your passport, but I'm not sure.[/QUOTE]Hhhmmm, I guess so. I was questioned every time I entered russia too. I had to unlock my phone and let them check whatever they want to check. I'm not 100% sure if they will deny my entry. Hard to say. If they do, I will go back to poland and think about what I should go next then.

Hi guys, before the "thing" happened I used to travel quite a bit to Kyiv since we had a partner company there.

As a single guy I enjoyed some of the pleasures along the way in the city.

One of my favorites in the city were always the massages: nowhere else have I had such an experience with full naked body-on-body action (whitout actual intercourse) and great finishing.

My question: does anyone know of a city in / around Europe where the same service-levels are offered and where / for what would I need to look for?

I mean: the term "massage" can mean anything.

[QUOTE=Tomster99;2975458]Hi guys, before the "thing" happened I used to travel quite a bit to Kyiv since we had a partner company there.

As a single guy I enjoyed some of the pleasures along the way in the city.

One of my favorites in the city were always the massages: nowhere else have I had such an experience with full naked body-on-body action (whitout actual intercourse) and great finishing.

My question: does anyone know of a city in / around Europe where the same service-levels are offered and where / for what would I need to look for?

I mean: the term "massage" can mean anything.[/QUOTE]Moscow and every other Russian city has exactly has these exact luxe, premium salons with sensual body to body which imo was much more satisfying than FS. The lineups alone are intoxicating and done by girls a lot less 'pro' than full on escorts. But I'm sure Russia is not an option.

Best alternative is definitely Prague, although with proper European prices. The premium massage salons there have the exact same setup, with some really hot Ukrainian girls. And I've found the Ukrainian girls to be even more sensual than Russian. Huge influx of Ukrainian hotties in Prague post 2022 "thing", seems to have slowed down a bit now judging on the salon website lineups. Think some of the spa's are owned by Ukrainian / Russian. The ambience is unmistakable.

I've seen Poland has some similar setups, but not too sure on the quality of the ladies there as I haven't been.

[QUOTE=Tomster99;2975458]Hi guys, before the "thing" happened I used to travel quite a bit to Kyiv since we had a partner company there.

As a single guy I enjoyed some of the pleasures along the way in the city.

One of my favorites in the city were always the massages: nowhere else have I had such an experience with full naked body-on-body action (whitout actual intercourse) and great finishing.

My question: does anyone know of a city in / around Europe where the same service-levels are offered and where / for what would I need to look for?

I mean: the term "massage" can mean anything.[/QUOTE]In Germany, many clubs with foods, drinks, SPA, massage and WGs for sex. In some clubs, P6 for 50/30. In some, for 100/30. And Germany is safe and I find German girls.

[QUOTE=Jbob084;2975547]Moscow and every other Russian city has exactly has these exact luxe, premium salons with sensual body to body which imo was much more satisfying than FS. The lineups alone are intoxicating and done by girls a lot less 'pro' than full on escorts. But I'm sure Russia is not an option.

Best alternative is definitely Prague, although with proper European prices. The premium massage salons there have the exact same setup, with some really hot Ukrainian girls. And I've found the Ukrainian girls to be even more sensual than Russian. Huge influx of Ukrainian hotties in Prague post 2022 "thing", seems to have slowed down a bit now judging on the salon website lineups. Think some of the spa's are owned by Ukrainian / Russian. The ambience is unmistakable.

I've seen Poland has some similar setups, but not too sure on the quality of the ladies there as I haven't been.[/QUOTE]Many thanks for your feedback, I see it exactly as you do. Often quite more sensational than FS. I am hoping to be back in Kyiv soon and hope these days aren't completly gone. I read different feedback. Quite some state that the girls are not as nice as they were any more in the massage salons of the city. But yeah: pricepoint was also super interesting, when I was in the city I would enjoy a massage almost on a daily basis.

Do you have some tips for good massage places in Prague maybe? If so, could you PM me? Would appreciate it mate.

[QUOTE=Sirioja;2975550]In Germany, many clubs with foods, drinks, SPA, massage and WGs for sex. In some clubs, P6 for 50/30. In some, for 100/30. And Germany is safe and I find German girls.[/QUOTE]Thanks, I am aware of the clubs in Germany, but I was really more focussing on the kind of massages you get in Kyiv which are not considered sexual intercourse.

[QUOTE=Tomster99;2975774]Many thanks for your feedback, I see it exactly as you do. Often quite more sensational than FS. I am hoping to be back in Kyiv soon and hope these days aren't completly gone. I read different feedback. Quite some state that the girls are not as nice as they were any more in the massage salons of the city. But yeah: pricepoint was also super interesting, when I was in the city I would enjoy a massage almost on a daily basis.

Do you have some tips for good massage places in Prague maybe? If so, could you PM me? Would appreciate it mate.[/QUOTE]After the war Kiev is probably going to climb into the top 5 mongering place on the planet in my opinion. Popular place like the caraibean had been roasted by the amreican tourist who create ean insane inflation into the price, girls in RD are now asking to be paid 100 $ usd for ST. Colombia is probably the next place who is going to be ruined by the usa monger and the asia still have decent price but the plane ticket are so high its now insine to go there more then once a years.

[QUOTE=BennieBen;2976687]After the war Kiev is probably going to climb into the top 5 mongering place on the planet in my opinion. Popular place like the caraibean had been roasted by the amreican tourist who create ean insane inflation into the price, girls in RD are now asking to be paid 100 $ usd for ST. Colombia is probably the next place who is going to be ruined by the usa monger and the asia still have decent price but the plane ticket are so high its now insine to go there more then once a years.[/QUOTE]Hmmm. Could be. OR: could also go the other way around. I guess ATM there are quite a lot of americans in Kyiv and they are away from home as reporters or army specialists etc, therefor lonely and probably "consuming" a lot of adult entertaiment perks.

Once that war is over, there will probably also be a lot of girls returning and building a future with the money they earned abroad. So this will help to rebalance.

[QUOTE=BennieBen;2976687]After the war Kiev is probably going to climb into the top 5 mongering place on the planet in my opinion. Popular place like the caraibean had been roasted by the amreican tourist who create ean insane inflation into the price, girls in RD are now asking to be paid 100 $ usd for ST. Colombia is probably the next place who is going to be ruined by the usa monger and the asia still have decent price but the plane ticket are so high its now insine to go there more then once a years.[/QUOTE]I highly doubt that. Alot of the girls / younger women simply left Kiev. When I look at big German cities there has been a huge influx of Ukrainian women that are only looking into getting wifed up. They are refugees but act like queens its crazy.

I firmly believe it will be the opposite way around after the war. It will be slim pickings and that will drive prices up.

To be fair I don't think Kiev ever was a great mongering destination. I was there shortly before the pandemic and yes the women are gorgeous but there is no proper redlight zones, everything is very hush hush and intransparent, classifieds are full with scammers and the really hot girls are quite flaky.

[QUOTE=Sirioja;2975550]In Germany, many clubs with foods, drinks, SPA, massage and WGs for sex. In some clubs, P6 for 50/30. In some, for 100/30. And Germany is safe and I find German girls.[/QUOTE]These prices are no longer indicative for P6 in Germany. At least in the big cities like Munich, Hamburg, Frankfurt and Stuttgart its more like 50 euros for **20** minutes and its a super mechanical extremely low quality and low effort service that you get for that. Extras such as DATY or uncovered BJs (if offered by the girl) hike up the prices fast. If you want to fuck a pretty girl and take your time (lets say 1 hour, 1-2 shots) the very minimum will be 150€ but more often than not it will cost you 200€+.

Only clueless people (and americans) still think mongering is a good deal in Germany.

[QUOTE=Argo1990;2977376]To be fair I don't think Kiev ever was a great mongering destination. I was there shortly before the pandemic and yes the women are gorgeous but there is no proper redlight zones, everything is very hush hush and intransparent, classifieds are full with scammers and the really hot girls are quite flaky.[/QUOTE]I totally agree with you; I have been to Ukraine so many times and it was not the greatest mongering destination especially if you don't speak Russian. There are lots of scams in the process.

[QUOTE=Argo1990;2977376]To be fair I don't think Kiev ever was a great mongering destination.[/QUOTE]You cannot be serious. Kyiv might not be a great sex tourism destination now, but claiming it never was is ridiculous.

Thirty or twenty years ago it was literally the best place you could find if you were into white girls. The situation began gradually deteriorate of course, but even during the years following Maidan Revolution, it was still not super difficult to find really hot ladies at bargain price.

[QUOTE=Argo1990;2977376]I was there shortly before the pandemic and yes the women are gorgeous but there is no proper redlight zones, everything is very hush hush and intransparent, classifieds are full with scammers and the really hot girls are quite flaky.[/QUOTE]Mongering in countries like Ukraine and Russia takes effort, and learning some basic Russian will help you a lot.

Most online ads have fake pics, either for privacy reasons or just pure scam. The correct way is adding the phone number on WA / Viber / TG, asking them to send you real pics, and asking her to come if you like her. They could still send you fake or heavily photoshopped pics. In this case feel free to send her away immediately.

Has anyone entered Ukraine with Russian stamps on passport? Any problems at the border?

I may go to Lviv and some other cities near Lviv and then Kyiv. Just wondering what website do you guys use in case I could not find any girls in the malls or on streets?

What I found is these: [URL]https://relaxlviv.com/en/verified/[/URL] or [URL]https://relaxkiev.vip/uk/[/URL] or [URL]https://intim-kiev.com/en/type/individuals/[/URL] or [URL]https://relaxportal.biz/escort-75068/[/URL]

I will have mamba and tinder setup as well. I did find some on Mamba last time I was in Kyiv. There were girls handing out contact cards in the center of Kyiv too.

Tootsie and Rio has been closed down for good. Looks like it will made into a karaoke lounge.

[QUOTE=BobSmith1;3004561]I may go to Lviv and some other cities near Lviv and then Kyiv. Just wondering what website do you guys use in case I could not find any girls in the malls or on streets?

I will have mamba and tinder setup as well. I did find some on Mamba last time I was in Kyiv. There were girls handing out contact cards in the center of Kyiv too.[/QUOTE]I have used this a few times: [URL]https://minuet.in/ukraine/en/[/URL] some accounts are fake but in general it's pretty good. Mamba is blocked because it's on a. Ru domain so you have to use a VPN. You can also find girls for escort at some of the strip clubs.

[QUOTE=MagicM;3005154]I have used this a few times: [URL]https://minuet.in/ukraine/en/[/URL] some accounts are fake but in general it's pretty good. Mamba is blocked because it's on a. Ru domain so you have to use a VPN. You can also find girls for escort at some of the strip clubs.[/QUOTE]Most of them got fake tits too there damn. Ya I got VPN.

[QUOTE=BobSmith1;3005240]Most of them got fake tits too there damn. Ya I got VPN.[/QUOTE]I'm a bit chicken to go to Kyiv now guys. I'm in Warsaw now so I may just take a bus to Lviv and stay around there and see how things go. If it turn safer later on, I will keep going to Kyiv.

I don't see a section for Lviv though. Please open a section for Lviv because its the safer place for now.

Are there any websites for Lviv? Or Mainly just Tinder and Mamba? Please share some advices on Lviv. Thank you guys!!

Hi everyone,

I have successfully entered Ukraine from Poland with US passport. I mentioned that I have been to Russia 2 times in the past 2 years and each time stayed a few months. They checked it and yes they took a closer look at it but still let me in. NO other questions asked.

1 last question for you guys. If I decide to stay longer, can I do border run like go to Poland on the 87th day (less than 90 days) and then come back to Ukraine a few days later. Can I have another 90 days visa free stay in Ukraine again? I will leave before the snow start falling anyways so I will not use up the entire 90 days for the 2nd entry.

Thank you guys!

It gave me a no on this but there maybe an excuse to extend the stay now since war is one of the reasons you can ask for an extension. Maybe maybe not, guys?

[QUOTE=BobSmith1;3011203]Hi everyone,

I have successfully entered Ukraine from Poland with US passport. I mentioned that I have been to Russia 2 times in the past 2 years and each time stayed a few months. They checked it and yes they took a closer look at it but still let me in. NO other questions asked.

1 last question for you guys. If I decide to stay longer, can I do border run like go to Poland on the 87th day (less than 90 days) and then come back to Ukraine a few days later. Can I have another 90 days visa free stay in Ukraine again? I will leave before the snow start falling anyways so I will not use up the entire 90 days for the 2nd entry.

Thank you guys![/QUOTE]Did you make it to Kiev? If you're in Kiev now I'd recommend erotic massage salons, Kiev has several, my favorite is Topless located on Prorizna, you may also want to try escort vc, a little pricey but well worth it. No border runs, 90 in, 90 out.

[QUOTE=BobSmith1;3011203]Hi everyone,

I have successfully entered Ukraine from Poland with US passport. I mentioned that I have been to Russia 2 times in the past 2 years and each time stayed a few months. They checked it and yes they took a closer look at it but still let me in. NO other questions asked.

1 last question for you guys. If I decide to stay longer, can I do border run like go to Poland on the 87th day (less than 90 days) and then come back to Ukraine a few days later. Can I have another 90 days visa free stay in Ukraine again? I will leave before the snow start falling anyways so I will not use up the entire 90 days for the 2nd entry.

Thank you guys![/QUOTE]You can always do a border run by air, but try not to do so by road. Mostly 50% people are rejected on road. What are the prices you pay nowadays in Ukraine for the girls? Scarlet club is still working? Another club was just behind hotel Ukraine, does it work? Clubs charge around 300 USD but normal prices for normal girls are cheap still I think. Let me know.

[QUOTE=Visal;3014297]You can always do a border run by air, but try not to do so by road. [/QUOTE]Not correct.

During a sliding window of 180 days, you are allowed to stay 90 days in UA, assuming US passport.

Whether by air or by train or road or even feet, does not matter.

No flights to Kiev right now. Missing Kiev a lot.

Anybody can update with the short time prices here please?

https://relaxkiev.vip/ is still working since 2018 but are the prices still followed by the girls?

[QUOTE=ReinerOtto;3014330]Not correct.
During a sliding window of 180 days, you are allowed to stay 90 days in UA, assuming US passport.

Whether by air or by train or road or even feet, does not matter.[/QUOTE]I still like the online meeting, don't like the salons much.

Yes now I can confirm that I can not do border run. I can either just over stay 1 to 2 months and pay a fine at the border about $120 USD but I will be detained for about 2 hours.

Or go to Poland and get a what is called type the visa for volunteering or student and come back for another 3 months. In theory, you will need to continue the application for either.

'volunteering or student after you come in with the type the visa but maybe I can make some excuse that I change my mind when I leave. That type the visa cost almost the same $.

As over stay fines. You will get another 90 days base on my research.

Kyiv used to be a good option, but not anymore.

There is absolutely no reason for anyone to risk his life staying here for average-looking girls and terrible mongering scene.

The Ukrainian society has changed a lot since the war started, and not to a better direction. Number of people with serious mental problems has increased greatly since I last visited here. Rude people are also becoming more common.

Just not worth it.

If you're into Slavic girls, Russia Far East is a much better (and safer) alternative.

[QUOTE=Visal;3015898]No flights to Kiev right now. Missing Kiev a lot.

Anybody can update with the short time prices here please?

https://relaxkiev.vip/ is still working since 2018 but are the prices still followed by the girls?[/QUOTE]Sorry I can't provide more recent, updated info; last time I was in Kiev (departed three days before the war started) I visited Relax massage salon as well as Topless and Dream. Of the three, Relax was the least expensive, Dream the most expensive, but the best experience; by far, was Topless.

If you're into Slavic girls, Russia Far East is a much better (and safer) alternative.

Russia far east, do you mean places like Perm, Ekat, Novosibirsk or further east like Vladivostok?

[QUOTE=Timmy21;3017689]If you're into Slavic girls, Russia Far East is a much better (and safer) alternative.

Russia far east, do you mean places like Perm, Ekat, Novosibirsk or further east like Vladivostok?[/QUOTE]Vladivostok. Used to be a blonde paradise for mongers from neighbouring Asian countries (China, Korea, Japan). Now because of the political situation, Korean and Japanese tourists almost disappeared, just local and Chinese mongers. The city offers a great variety of young talents from the city itself and surrounding Russian Far East regions. There also great seafood and a huge casino, though I'm not interested in gambling. The erotic massage salons are probably among the greatest I've ever seen around the world. I've met some really young, hot, and well-educated girls there.

Knowledge of Russian language would be great helpful with mongering experience as there are very few western tourists there.

I'll break this up into two parts. The first are my successes, the second will be my failures. I've been back in Kyiv for 2-months now and would like to share my experiences with you. It should be noted, I lived in Kyiv for many years before the war began and had quite a bit of success with sponsoring young women here, university-aged being my preference.

It has been said on here that Kyiv or Ukraine is 'over' and it is largely true; if one is considering a quick trip into Ukraine for some mongering, I would say forget it. It's not worth the time, effort, money and risk. For those such as myself, who had the option to come back to live and work, the situation is better, but not like before the war, certainly. The options are not as plentiful but there is still some action to be had. I've had success meeting women on Travelgirls, Badoo, Tinder and Mamba (though it is a ghost town compared to pre-COVID when I was able to meet plenty of university-aged women). The best option is Travelgirls, but the women there are more expensive as they are aware what men abroad will pay them. Here are the women I've met so far. I changed their names for their privacy. Please don't ask me for contact numbers as I don't give them out.

The first woman I met was from Travelgirls. Will call her Liza, she's 26, 170 cm, sexy, very fun to spend time with and comes from Western Ukraine. She asks 500 USD per meeting, which I think she can get in Europe, but no way I am spending that much on a girl here in Ukraine. I negotiated 8,000 UAH which after some time she agreed to. Liza has a lovely little pussy.

The second woman I met is Alina, who was in my contact list for some time and can't recall how I met her. She's early-thirties, around 170 cm who originally asked for 9,000 (I would rather meet Liza again at 8,000) and I returned 6,000 which she agreed to after I made it clear I wasn't budging. A pleasant woman with a nice figure. Definitely worth 6,000. Gave a loving BJ, like Liza.

The last woman I've met with was from Tinder. Sofiia is 29, 175 cm tall and hot! She long legs, a pretty face, large breasts and originally from Luhansk. She met me dressed in a short, pink skirt and looking amazing. At first I was worried she would ask for 400-500 USD, which if anyone is worth that amount, it would be her. I offered her 8,000 UAH which she agreed to, to my pleasant surprise. She was a little conservative in bed but she has such a great figure that it didn't take her long to get the job done. I'll definitely meet her again.

What you may notice is there are no university aged girls on my list, which is my preference. About that in Part 2.

I've never liked strippers or strip clubs or seasoned professional women. They are too jaded and well-used for my liking. I've always been partial to university-aged women or young women who just entered the work force and want to earn extra money by fucking an older man on a regular basis to supplement their low salary. It used to be these girl-next-door types at 21-26 in Kyiv were plentiful. You could have a different one each month, but those days are gone. They are now few and far between.

But my real interest is university-aged women, 18-20. In 2014 I was sponsoring three of them at one time, including a real beauty from Kramatorsk. In 2018 I was sponsoring a knock-out 19-year old red-head with immaculate tits for only a hundred bucks a meeting. I could fuck her whenever I wanted as rough as I wanted.

Well, currently in Kyiv, I've found zero girls of that age online. It's possible now that the university year has begun, some will appear, but I'm pessimistic.

You might be thinking: Gopnik, you said you met an amazing 29-year old who will fuck you for less than 200 USD. Who cares about the younger women, just fuck her. If you're thinking this, you're partly correct. However, I want what I don't have access to in North America. Women 18-22. So, as I have been unable to find any, I've changed my game plan.

I had some business cards made up, with my Telegram and WhatsApp number, an idea I considered years ago, but never had a need to follow through on. Over the last week, if I see a young attractive woman walking alone or sitting on a bench, or even two strolling together, I'll stop them, ask a question such as 'Excuse me, dear, could you tell me where Shuliavska metro station is?' or 'Do you know where Ocean Plaza is?' and after some small talk will give them my card and say 'If you need a job or help with money, you can contact me here' and after a pleasant goodbye, I walk away.

Just today I was sitting in a park near a university, smoking a small cigar, when a young beauty strolled past me. She said her name was 'Karolina' and she was very pleasant. I made some small talk and gave her my card. Yesterday I was walking at Globus Mall when a pretty red-head in spandex shorts was approaching and I stopped her with the same routine. Gave her my card, she thanked me politely and walked off. Three days ago I was in Metrograd Mall when two young women around 19-20 with short dresses, facial piercings and vaping approached me. I couldn't help myself and spoke to them briefly and gave them my card, then watched them walk away. I was in Ocean Plaza speaking with a young woman working at some cosmetic shop and went through the same routine. She was friendly, pretty and took my card with a thank you.

I've probably given out 12-15 cards and have received all of one reply. She said she wasn't interested in sponsorship but was pleasant about it. It's not as easy as you might think to approach strangers on the street with the idea of others around watching and undoubtedly understanding what is happening. I'm kind of self-conscious about it so I pick my spots.

Also, I'm not as young as I once was. I'm mid-forties now. Perhaps that is part of the problem, but I don't think it is a serious one. I dress well always and have taken decent care of myself. I recently went on a coffee date with a hot single mom in her mid-thirties who told me I looked 38, for what that might be worth. And all it takes is for one of these university girls to say yes and I'll consider it a success, but who knows if that will happen. Maybe I need to change my approach? Any advice?

I'll post updates if I have any news. Thanks for reading.

[QUOTE=Gopnik;3024692] The last woman I've met with was from Tinder... At first I was worried she would ask for 400-500 USD [/QUOTE]With Tinder girls, how do you let them know you're prepared to give them money? Tinder does a shadow-ban if you offer money, happened to me after a couple of successful hookups.

[QUOTE=NoBuglyFitches;3024736]With Tinder girls, how do you let them know you're prepared to give them money? Tinder does a shadow-ban if you offer money, happened to me after a couple of successful hookups.[/QUOTE]I kind of test the waters and make a judgement on how they respond. Also, I try and move them over to Telegram and then talk details there. Never had an issue.

[QUOTE=AntonySun1996;3018355]Vladivostok. Used to be a blonde paradise for mongers from neighbouring Asian countries (China, Korea, Japan). Now because of the political situation, Korean and Japanese tourists almost disappeared, just local and Chinese mongers. The city offers a great variety of young talents from the city itself and surrounding Russian Far East regions. There also great seafood and a huge casino, though I'm not interested in gambling. The erotic massage salons are probably among the greatest I've ever seen around the world. I've met some really young, hot, and well-educated girls there.

Knowledge of Russian language would be great helpful with mongering experience as there are very few western tourists there.[/QUOTE]I want to go to Belarus Have you been there?

[QUOTE=Gopnik;3024721]I've never liked strippers or strip ... SKiP...........

Also, I'm not as young as I once was. I'm mid-forties now. Perhaps that is part of the problem, but I don't think it is a serious one. I dress well always and have taken decent care of myself. I recently went on a coffee date with a hot single mom in her mid-thirties who told me I looked 38, for what that might be worth. And all it takes is for one of these university girls to say yes and I'll consider it a success, but who knows if that will happen. Maybe I need to change my approach? Any advice?

I'll post updates if I have any news. Thanks for reading.[/QUOTE]I think the problem is the society, who talks bad about old men / young girl relations in certain countries, I myself I am over 60 years, a young girl smiled at me in the bus Agadir to Marrakech, I gave her my number, she was 18 at that time, and a few days later she did not stop texting and me that she loves me. Now I have been with her for 3 years, I pay for her studies, her room, and I fly to Morocco a few times per year. It's hard to understand why she shows me proudly around with her friends, but it's like this. Maybe just luck and her special situation. She is not coming along with her mother, and she has moved out of her mother's house. Her father has a new wife and never phones her.

But a similar thing happened to me when staying in Tunis for a week, a young punk girl (emo-girl, e-girls) 18 years, came to visit me every day, and she would not stop asking me to return to her country. This girl is fine with her Mom at home, but she does not talk and avoids her father, who is also in her house.

Anyhow, I know what happened to me is not an everyday occurrence.

But something else comes to mind: I know a young girl who married a man in a wheelchair, and some of my friends have given her their respect that she went with a man with a handicap.
Being old can also be viewed as a handicap, and similarly, if a young girl chooses an older man, it can be seen in a similar light. Isn't it!

Auro.

[QUOTE=Gopnik;3024739]I kind of test the waters and make a judgement on how they respond. Also, I try and move them over to Telegram and then talk details there. Never had an issue.[/QUOTE]So you have to match them first without offering money, just based on your looks etc, same as any other guy on Tinder? Do you wait for them to right swipe you or you reach out first?

I reached out and offered "sponsorship. " Met a few girls, had sex with them, and then Tinder caught on and shadow-banned me.

[QUOTE=Gopnik;3024721]I've never liked strippers or strip clubs or seasoned professional women. They are too jaded and well-used for my liking. I've always been partial to university-aged women or young women who just entered the work force and want to earn extra money by fucking an older man on a regular basis to supplement their low salary. It used to be these girl-next-door types at 21-26 in Kyiv were plentiful. You could have a different one each month, but those days are gone. They are now few and far between.

But my real interest is university-aged women, 18-20. In 2014 I was sponsoring three of them at one time, including a real beauty from Kramatorsk. In 2018 I was sponsoring a knock-out 19-year old red-head with immaculate tits for only a hundred bucks a meeting. I could fuck her whenever I wanted as rough as I wanted.

Well, currently in Kyiv, I've found zero girls of that age online. It's possible now that the university year has begun, some will appear, but I'm pessimistic.

You might be thinking: Gopnik, you said you met an amazing 29-year old who will fuck you for less than 200 USD. Who cares about the younger women, just fuck her. If you're thinking this, you're partly correct. However, I want what I don't have access to in North America. Women 18-22. So, as I have been unable to find any, I've changed my game plan.

I had some business cards made up, with my Telegram and WhatsApp number, an idea I considered years ago, but never had a need to follow through on. Over the last week, if I see a young attractive woman walking alone or sitting on a bench, or even two strolling together, I'll stop them, ask a question such as 'Excuse me, dear, could you tell me where Shuliavska metro station is?' or 'Do you know where Ocean Plaza is?' and after some small talk will give them my card and say 'If you need a job or help with money, you can contact me here' and after a pleasant goodbye, I walk away..[/QUOTE]Just go to Russia if you are into 18 year old slavic girls. They are widely available there. Also less scams IMO.

Ukraine was good until it was ruined as a sex tourist destination thanks to the West. A hot young Ukrainian girl can easily go to Europe or North America to find a job (and potentially a husband) if she needs money, instead of selling her pussy in Kyiv. So it's not surprising if all you can get now are single moms in their late 20's and early 30's whose husbands have gone missing after being abducted by TCC.

I just don't understand why people still risk their lives traveling there for mediocre level girls.

[QUOTE=JohnAuro;3024846] I gave her my number, she was 18 at that time, and a few days later she did not stop texting and me that she loves me. Now I have been with her for 3 years, I pay for her studies, her room, and I fly to Morocco a few times per year. It's hard to understand why she shows me proudly around with her friends, but it's like this.[/QUOTE]Are you getting any sex? Sounds platonic, one sided.

[QUOTE=AntonySun1996;3018355]Vladivostok. Used to be a blonde paradise for mongers from neighbouring Asian countries (China, Korea, Japan). Now because of the political situation, Korean and Japanese tourists almost disappeared, just local and Chinese mongers. The city offers a great variety of young talents from the city itself and surrounding Russian Far East regions. There also great seafood and a huge casino, though I'm not interested in gambling. The erotic massage salons are probably among the greatest I've ever seen around the world. I've met some really young, hot, and well-educated girls there.

Knowledge of Russian language would be great helpful with mongering experience as there are very few western tourists there.[/QUOTE]Can you fuck them in these massage salons? There are a lot of them in Moscow as well, but I cannot understand if they are actually salons like the ones in Piter, or they are massage places. I am really not interested in massage at all.

[QUOTE=AntonySun1996;3026739]The massage salons generally strictly prohibit sex, though they have services where they wear silicon "pussy" for you to fuck. The fake pussies are cringe at first, but once you get used to them, it's quite fun. I couldn't persuade girls to have vaginal sex, even for extra money, but I guess if you manage to build trust with the girl after a few visits, it's quite possible to take her out. I just didn't have enough time for it.[/QUOTE]Thank you for the answer sir. Very much appreciated.

[QUOTE=AntonySun1996;3016467]Kyiv used to be a good option, but not anymore.

There is absolutely no reason for anyone to risk his life staying here for average-looking girls and terrible mongering scene.

The Ukrainian society has changed a lot since the war started, and not to a better direction. Number of people with serious mental problems has increased greatly since I last visited here. Rude people are also becoming more common.

Just not worth it.

If you're into Slavic girls, Russia Far East is a much better (and safer) alternative.[/QUOTE]I haven't really thought about visiting Russia after the war started, but can Americans visit Russia safely? Or you risk your life (in prison) as well like visiting drone-covered Kyiv?