Bangkok Reports

[QUOTE=Syzygies;1841633]Its standard practice for girls to try it on to get two drinks. Doesn't mean the customer has to agree. I have agreed on occasions if I know where I am going with the girl. A new girl, no way.

Ging has been ripped off by several customers that did not pay for the ST at all. Hence girls get very scared of being ripped off and has become common to request payment in advance. They don't want to fuck for free. I have never paid in advance myself but as I am well known at the bar, it's not a problem. It's standard for mamasans to ask for payment in advance, never mind whether they are blaming the girl or not. I talk to girls first and just give her the barfine to take to mamasan. I don't need a mamasan involved. However I am not typical.

My first ever CH girl Mint was trying to insist on up front payment for a LT. No way. She could have been a disaster and need to be sent packing with only a ST fee.

So mutual distrust is serious problem in a bar. Ging has plenty of regulars though. Young girls can be a little on the selfish side of course, but she gets away with it through popularity and very happy personality.

I have been with Ging maybe 4 times and found her to be responsive on the bed, and very nice feeling pussy. Kissing okay And BJ okay Not magnificent skills but she can be hot for it. Sensitive. Yes a bit scared of large size, but no where near as much as many other girls.

"Hardened Pro"? Not really. Although she may have started a couple of years back, she has been missing for very long periods frequently. I never even met her till 2nd half of last year, despite being a long term regular.

Only Donut in the bar, would I possibly choose sometimes in preference to Ging. Do have other favourites though.[/QUOTE]Never in my time in BKK has it been standard practice to pay upfront to the Momason in a Suk area go go, Nana or Soi Cowboy. I can think of only one reason she chose this and it's that CH is becoming the most popular bar on Soi Cowboy and they are testing the waters now to see what they can get away with. However paying upfront in the bar is common practice at the Thai go go bars frequented by the locals. I have been spending a great deal of time in the Sephan Kwai bars recently and always pay 2000ST or 2600 LT at the bar and not once did I have a problem with bad service. I can speak mediocor Thai and I always make friends with the staff and tip well. This scene is great. 2600 LT, 1,000 for Lady drinks and my beers, and 500 tip for the moma. 4,100 for a night out drinking and sex with a white skinned 22 year old hottie. On Nana or Soi cowboy I would have been in for about 6,000-8,000 for the same. Love it!

[QUOTE=Bkkdog;1841639]Never in my time in BKK has it been standard practice to pay upfront to the Momason in a Suk area go go, Nana or Soi Cowboy. I can think of only one reason she chose this and it's that CH is becoming the most popular bar on Soi Cowboy and they are testing the waters now to see what they can get away with. However paying upfront in the bar is common practice at the Thai go go bars frequented by the locals. I have been spending a great deal of time in the Sephan Kwai bars recently and always pay 2000ST or 2600 LT at the bar and not once did I have a problem with bad service. I can speak mediocor Thai and I always make friends with the staff and tip well. This scene is great. 2600 LT, 1,000 for Lady drinks and my beers, and 500 tip for the moma. 4,100 for a night out drinking and sex with a white skinned 22 year old hottie. On Nana or Soi cowboy I would have been in for about 6,000-8,000 for the same. Love it![/QUOTE]Thais can't be trusted. Likewise certain foreigners seem not be trusted too. Most MPs have changed to up front payment.

Girls being ripped off became all too common. Even in places like Tulip, mango, SW etc. Ask any of the girls.

[QUOTE=Amorbasha;1841589]I have been to a massage place where I see a regular. While waiting for her another provider made a long eye contact with a spark that gave me immediate hard-on. The question is weather to take the new, younger girl with the promising wink and risking upsetting my regular or stick to my guns and choose the the lady I came for who provide super duper service. Decisions decisions![/QUOTE]Easy. Next time you go there with no plan and hope to bump into the young one. If not you can ask the reception about her name and if she is bookable (of course she is. But pretend you are inquiring). Maybe receptionist will tell your regular one, but hey,. That's life, and they know the don't and can't have exclusivity on customers.

Another way is to ask yo regular if she does 4-hand massage with somebody else, hinting you saw one who is new and maybe not fully experience. A good investment t check the skills of the young one.

[QUOTE=Syzygies;1841633] Ging has been ripped off by several customers that did not pay for the ST at all. Hence girls get very scared of being ripped off and has become common to request payment in advance. They don't want to fuck for free. [/QUOTE]I have never heard this story from the girls I have been with. But it seems other customers hear these stories from the girls they have been with, so I suppose there are such stories to tell. I know there are assholes out there. But how often would a man who wants to find a beautiful girl for the night who treats him well in the room decide upon striking gold with that damned hard to find combination that this is the perfect opportunity to save 2000-2500 baht, never be treated to her treasures and service again and most certainly be marked lousy in that bar forever by dodging payment entirely? Something just doesn't smell right about this story some bargirls tell other customers but have never told me.

This Ging girl is beautiful, supposedly the best looking girl in one of the hottest go-go bars in Asia if not the entire world and apparently gives decent service in the room worth the money she demands. Yet she has managed with only a few months off and on in the business over a couple of years to be plagued by enough (several?) guys willing to scoff at the presumably utterly disposable combination of fabulous looks and worthy service / performance in the room to rip her off that her standard policy now with any newcomers is to get the mamasan to collect it all upfront? Seriously?

Something doesn't compute. Either she has discovered she really isn't worth the money once the hotel room door closes and she is alone with the customer or that girl has the worst luck in all of Thailand's go-go bars in choosing new customers.

Personally, if a mamasan or a girl in one of the most popular, standing room only go-go bars on the planet told me that the reason she needs to collect the money upfront is because "several customers did not pay for (her) ST at all", I would take that as a flashing red warning sign to move on to another girl. I mean, there has got to be a reason for that beyond that there are a lot of assholes out there and/or that she is that unlucky to have been targeted by so many of them in the past and fully expects to be targeted by more of them from now on. One customer who just up and ran out without paying a beautiful girl for decent service, ok. Two customers who shorted her by trying to get away with only paying her 1000 baht or something like that, sure. But SEVERAL customers over the course of a few months during a couple of years who didn't pay her anything at all?! I don't know, man. I guess I'd like to hear those customers' side of the story before I only blame them and not her for that so often recurring outcome.

[QUOTE=Syzygies;1841645]Thais can't be trusted. Likewise certain foreigners seem not be trusted too. Most MPs have changed to up front payment.

Girls being ripped off became all too common. Even in places like Tulip, mango, SW etc. Ask any of the girls.[/QUOTE]Not that it matters, but I've never paid upfront in any Suk MP, however it is standard practice to pay upfront in the Ratchada MPs.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;1841658]I have never heard this story from the girls I have been with. But it seems other customers hear these stories from the girls they have been with, so I suppose there are such stories to tell. I know there are assholes out there. But how often would a man who wants to find a beautiful girl for the night who treats him well in the room decide upon striking gold with that damned hard to find combination that this is the perfect opportunity to save 2000-2500 baht, never be treated to her treasures and service again and most certainly be marked lousy in that bar forever by dodging payment entirely? Something just doesn't smell right about this story some bargirls tell other customers but have never told me.

This Ging girl is beautiful, supposedly the best looking girl in one of the hottest go-go bars in Asia if not the entire world and apparently gives decent service in the room worth the money she demands. Yet she has managed with only a few months off and on in the business over a couple of years to be plagued by enough (several?) guys willing to scoff at the presumably utterly disposable combination of fabulous looks and worthy service / performance in the room to rip her off that her standard policy now with any newcomers is to get the mamasan to collect it all upfront? Seriously?

Something doesn't compute. Either she has discovered she really isn't worth the money once the hotel room door closes and she is alone with the customer or that girl has the worst luck in all of Thailand's go-go bars in choosing new customers.

Personally, if a mamasan or a girl in one of the most popular, standing room only go-go bars on the planet told me that the reason she needs to collect the money upfront is because "several customers did not pay for (her) ST at all", I would take that as a flashing red warning sign to move on to another girl. I mean, there has got to be a reason for that beyond that there are a lot of assholes out there and/or that she is that unlucky to have been targeted by so many of them. One customer who just up and ran out without paying a beautiful girl for decent service, ok. Two customers who shorted her by trying to get away with only paying her 1000 baht or something like that, sure. But SEVERAL customers over the course of a few months during a couple of years who didn't pay her anything at all?! I don't know, man. I guess I'd like to hear those customers' side of the story before I only blame them and not her for that outcome.[/QUOTE]If it wasn't for Sygs I would completely agree with you, so in this case I will give this provider the benefit of the doubt, enough that I will plan on making a special trip just to snage her.

[QUOTE=Bkkdog;1841667]If it wasn't for Sygs I would completely agree with you, so in this case I will give this provider the benefit of the doubt, enough that I will plan on making a special trip just to snage her.[/QUOTE]Of course, I'm not saying the girls don't tell Syzygies that story. And I have certainly heard girls say "a customer" didn't pay or tried not to pay once upon a time. Girls who have been at it for several years, that is. But as I think back to the very few times either the girl or the mamasan tried more than a little bit to get me to pay upfront in a Thai go-go bar, which I never did but forged ahead and took the girl anyway with a pay after agreement, I also remember thinking at the end of the experience that I understood entirely why this girl wanted the money upfront. And I can't think of one time where I would blame it on evil customers who just didn't appreciate this girl's terrific effort or skills in the room and must have tried to rip her off. It always seemed to make sense that a lot of guys would balk at paying her nearly as much as the mamasan tried to collect upfront considering the minimal effort she put out. LOL.

[QUOTE=Bkkdog;1841665]Not that it matters, but I've never paid upfront in any Suk MP, however it is standard practice to pay upfront in the Ratchada MPs.[/QUOTE]You do pay in advance At Annies. You usually pay after in any legitimate MP where, then, girl still offers some HJ, nude or not nude. The girl sometimes tries to cash before the service but I always say after.

I pay on arrival at Dubai MP once I set the length and pay the girls later, even if they too to ask for their fee before the service.

[QUOTE=Bkkdog;1841665]Not that it matters, but I've never paid upfront in any Suk MP, however it is standard practice to pay upfront in the Ratchada MPs.[/QUOTE]Some of the Suk PSE oilies have gone to upfront payment (room charge + lady fee) I can remember Mango Massage and Candy Massage from my last trip. It also gives the provider the opportunity to better differentiate a "tip" at the end of the session as that is traditionally where money changed hands.

Not really liking it personally and not the way it used to be.

SL.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;1841658]I have never heard this story from the girls I have been with. But it seems other customers hear these stories from the girls they have been with, so I suppose there are such stories to tell. I know there are assholes out there. But how often would a man who wants to find a beautiful girl for the night who treats him well in the room decide upon striking gold with that damned hard to find combination that this is the perfect opportunity to save 2000-2500 baht, never be treated to her treasures and service again and most certainly be marked lousy in that bar forever by dodging payment entirely? Something just doesn't smell right about this story some bargirls tell other customers but have never told me.

This Ging girl is beautiful, supposedly the best looking girl in one of the hottest go-go bars in Asia if not the entire world and apparently gives decent service in the room worth the money she demands. Yet she has managed with only a few months off and on in the business over a couple of years to be plagued by enough (several?) guys willing to scoff at the presumably utterly disposable combination of fabulous looks and worthy service / performance in the room to rip her off that her standard policy now with any newcomers is to get the mamasan to collect it all upfront? Seriously?

Something doesn't compute. Either she has discovered she really isn't worth the money once the hotel room door closes and she is alone with the customer or that girl has the worst luck in all of Thailand's go-go bars in choosing new customers.

Personally, if a mamasan or a girl in one of the most popular, standing room only go-go bars on the planet told me that the reason she needs to collect the money upfront is because "several customers did not pay for (her) ST at all", I would take that as a flashing red warning sign to move on to another girl. I mean, there has got to be a reason for that beyond that there are a lot of assholes out there and/or that she is that unlucky to have been targeted by so many of them in the past and fully expects to be targeted by more of them from now on. One customer who just up and ran out without paying a beautiful girl for decent service, ok. Two customers who shorted her by trying to get away with only paying her 1000 baht or something like that, sure. But SEVERAL customers over the course of a few months during a couple of years who didn't pay her anything at all?! I don't know, man. I guess I'd like to hear those customers' side of the story before I only blame them and not her for that so often recurring outcome.[/QUOTE]Your sarcastic tone and exagerration do not not make a convincing story. Just reads like mocking mocking.

Girls getting ripped off by the customer is not related to their looks or popularity.

You would not hear of these things for two reasons. You don't come across as someone sympathetic to the girls problems, and two you probably never asked any girls how bad the customers can be.

I have asked a variety of girls over the years what tjey thought of the customers. E. the. Tulip Yok, mango Cat, etc. Etc. MP girls have had customers with no money to pay.

What I have heard from various girls has been fairly consistent, so I don't assume they make up lies. What would be the point in that? There is no benefit to them. It's not going to change anything.

Bargirls and in particular newbie inexperienced bargirls get ripped off quite requrlarly, at least this was a major complaint when asked about problems with customers. Not as frequent as guys wanting bareback but still significant. Do you really believe that all customers are honest? Ha ha. Some guys are known to break the condom slyly on purpose.

I have heard many things about bad customers, because I was interested to understand something about the problems of the job.

Possibly very experienced bargirls are better able to suss out which guys are likely not to pay, and hence just refuse them. MP girls don't have same luxury to knock back all the customers that do not appeal to them.

I am also keen not to pay in advance if possible. My worry would be the possibility that with an unknown girl, once she got her money, if she was a bad girl, then could take the slightest oportunity to do a runner. With girls I know and trust, that would not be an issue.

I do recall at a new year's eve party, a freelance type of girl agreed to go with me long time, but actually she had no intention of that. Just wanted a quickie, get the money and head of with her friend somewhere for the new year. A lesson to be learned.

In the end, if neither bargirl nor customer trust each other, then no deal. It's that simple. One of the two has to be persuaded to trust the other, for something to be able to proceed.

It may well be that all of the girls in the bar are not worth what they charge for yourself and many othersm However they demand what they can get away with based on their popularity and may adjust it a bit depending on the particular customer being difficult or easy. All bargirls are over priced right?
The ugly ones go for less I am sure, but I don't bother with those ones.

I have seen reports of very high bargirl prices in Pattaya too now, that shocked me as I thought Pattaya was supposed to be a lot cheaper.

I agree with everything Syz says. He knows what he's talking about. And I understand the attempt to explain Ging's behavior, since he's had positive experiences with her.

But I've logged more hours in Bangkok gogos than I care to remember over the years. And clearly a girl who has been selling pussy for two years on Soi Cowboy is lying if she says she's never been fucked by a big dick. Also it was clear that she and the mamasan were lying about the need to pre-pay.

Yes, I would have liked to fuck her, but since I have already fucked my share of hotties at the bars when they were better looking and performed better, I was not interested in putting my money at risk. I don't feel I missed out. I had every reason to suspect that a crummy session or a runner was in store, and I had done nothing to give the girl or mamasan any reason to suspect I was not going to pay. Quite the contrary, two nights earlier I had barfined a girl from CH and everything was cool. Plus, several of their wait staff used to work at Tilac, where I was a notorious regular for years, so I am not exactly an 'unknown quantity'.

I am not going to speculate why Ging adopted this strategy. It is true that girls sometimes get ripped off, even the 'superstars'.

My report was meant as a 'buyer beware', and also as my only recourse to what I considered squirrelly behavior that cost me money and valuable time at a bar where you got to jump on your prey early and fast.

I realize this discussion won't have any effect on this girl's ability to snag customers, but maybe it will save some board members time and money.

[QUOTE=Syzygies;1841784]Your sarcastic tone and exagerration do not not make a convincing story. Just reads like mocking mocking.

Girls getting ripped off by the customer is not related to their looks or popularity.

You would not hear of these things for two reasons. You don't come across as someone sympathetic to the girls problems, and two you probably never asked any girls how bad the customers can be.
[/QUOTE]I have no doubt that if I routinely asked the girls, "Please tell me how bad the customers can be," they would not be stumped for tales of terror to keep me entertained as requested. How embellished and self-serving to their position those stories would be as well as how juicy and entertaining they can be to comply with my request would probably only be limited by their imagination.

I have had two bargirls from two separate bars cry on my shoulder about the difficulty of doing their job over the past 6 months. I suppose you might expect it was because they had gotten ripped off by several customers who didn't pay them anything at all for ST or that they had been forced to do something icky with a bad customer they didn't like and all that. Nope. It was about how much they hated their mamasan / owner for upping the Lady Drink quota and how sick they get when they have to drink so damn much alcohol every night of their working lives. Not one word about how bad their other customers are. Then again, I didn't ask them to supply me with stories about how bad the other customers are and, therefore, how they don't know how to treat them as well as I do.

Btw, I don't think I exaggerated. The words I used and responded to are the ones posted about this already. If it sounds like sarcasm and mockery to you, I can't help that. There just doesn't seem to be any other way to challenge a remarkable pattern of either bad luck or at least SOME level of justifiable non payment the girls who tell you these stories are plagued by.

[QUOTE=Sunlover2;1841728]Some of the Suk PSE oilies have gone to upfront payment (room charge + lady fee) I can remember Mango Massage and Candy Massage from my last trip. It also gives the provider the opportunity to better differentiate a "tip" at the end of the session as that is traditionally where money changed hands.

Not really liking it personally and not the way it used to be.

SL.[/QUOTE]I began noticing this trend maybe a couple of years ago. It seems many of the places ask for the money upfront if they don't recognize you as a customer, and still let you pay later if they know who you are. There have been some instances where someone who didn't know me was at the payment counter, and when they have asked for the money upfront I just told them I would pay later as I always did. That usually has worked but I wouldn't try it at a place I had never frequented previously, like Mitu, which is new enough (I believe) that it likely never in the past had a pay-at-the-end-of-the-session policy (but in fairness probably also is in a different category than what we often refer to as PSE oilies).

I've never heard of these Sephan Kwai bars. Can you elaborate a little on this area? Are there a lot of bars there? How does it compare to Soi cowboy?

[QUOTE=Bkkdog;1841639]Never in my time in BKK has it been standard practice to pay upfront to the Momason in a Suk area go go, Nana or Soi Cowboy. I can think of only one reason she chose this and it's that CH is becoming the most popular bar on Soi Cowboy and they are testing the waters now to see what they can get away with. However paying upfront in the bar is common practice at the Thai go go bars frequented by the locals. I have been spending a great deal of time in the Sephan Kwai bars recently and always pay 2000ST or 2600 LT at the bar and not once did I have a problem with bad service. I can speak mediocor Thai and I always make friends with the staff and tip well. This scene is great. 2600 LT, 1,000 for Lady drinks and my beers, and 500 tip for the moma. 4,100 for a night out drinking and sex with a white skinned 22 year old hottie. On Nana or Soi cowboy I would have been in for about 6,000-8,000 for the same. Love it![/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=EihTooms;1841799]I have no doubt that if I routinely asked the girls, "Please tell me how bad the customers can be," they would not be stumped for tales of terror to keep me entertained as requested. How embellished and self-serving to their position those stories would be as well as how juicy and entertaining they can be to comply with my request would probably only be limited by their imagination.

I have had two bargirls from two separate bars cry on my shoulder about the difficulty of doing their job over the past 6 months. I suppose you might expect it was because they had gotten ripped off by several customers who didn't pay them anything at all for ST or that they had been forced to do something icky with a bad customer they didn't like and all that. Nope. It was about how much they hated their mamasan / owner for upping the Lady Drink quota and how sick they get when they have to drink so damn much alcohol every night of their working lives. Not one word about how bad their other customers are. Then again, I didn't ask them to supply me with stories about how bad the other customers are and, therefore, how they don't know how to treat them as well as I do.
[/QUOTE]Your first paragraph is just your knowledgeable fantasizing. You always know would happen if you did something. You cannot accept real information that is contrary to your fantasies. Must always be lies. I report what I see and hear from actual experiences, not imaginings.

Bargirls particular gripe on the day was the mamasan. So what. That is just one example of the problems they face.

Sure all bargirls are liars and tell us nothing but fantasies. Have it your way. So don't go to any bars. Do you like any working girls at all or are they just a piece of meat?

Some of us are trying much harder to understand what is going on, and be able to have our fun, without making girls hate us.

Anyway the reason for upfront payment is very clear, whether at bars or MPs. Episodes of the customer not paying the girl at all, and also episodes of the customer agreeing to pay 2. 5 K (even he did not think the girl could possibly be worth it), and after the deed giving her a vastly reduced sum, saying she wasn't worth the original price, or just taxi money, saying he did not enjoy it. Unfortunately there are no money back guarantees that you will enjoy the fuck. It's a gamble. A contract is a contract but plenty of customers are reneging. It's not like the very old days when nearly all the girls just said it's up to you how much you pay them. That used to be a system that worked out O.K. for them on average as some would underpay and some would overpay. These days, with so much information on the internet guys are more empowered to be always paying bottom prices when they do pay.

So paying up front is simply the way they see to avoid the customer altering the contract after the event. This is really pretty obvious. I am doubtful that each shop will be thinking this is the ideal method for the girl to renege on her duties, although they do realise it can happen too.

As others have said, valued and regular customers at various shops are still given the option to pay later, as those customers already have a reputation for not being a cheat. Many places are thinking we don't need the business of cheats, which are only potential cheats, since they cannot know for sure in advance.

Some guys proudly report on ISG how they sent the girl packing with just taxi money, because she wasn't up to scratch. They just announce themselves as cheats. I am sorry but if you fucked the girl, you have to pay. There is no other option. I am not referring to special cases like she promised two pops and couldn't get you to a second pop or was too tired. I would still pay her provided no clear intent to cheat me. That is tricky, but I am referring to a simple ST booking. If I had a 2 pop agreement with every girl, hell I would never have to pay, right? since I never get to two pops, almost never. Of course this would be the path of a cheat. I am O.K. if a guy negoitiates two prices with the girl, a one pop price and a two pop price, and reasonable time limits. If the girl did her best to get the 2nd pop, she still deserves to be paid for it. Payment for sex is not dependent on a pop. If I don't cum at all, I still pay. With a recent freelancer, her Bj was poor (no experience I guess), and her pussy had no feel at all. Definitely no pop. Bad luck for me. Still have to pay. Still fucked her.

So many cheats exist in society, like the mamasan who refuses to give change, or guy that steals the tip money from the centre pot at a group meal in a restaurant, thinking the tip amount was too high, or just doesn't pay when bill is already covered by tips of others. Sure girls can be cheats too, fortunately has rarely happened to me. I don't trust freelancers too much. They are the most untrustworthy.