Bangkok Reports

[QUOTE=EihTooms;1841799]I have no doubt that if I routinely asked the girls, "Please tell me how bad the customers can be," they would not be stumped for tales of terror to keep me entertained as requested. How embellished and self-serving to their position those stories would be as well as how juicy and entertaining they can be to comply with my request would probably only be limited by their imagination.

I have had two bargirls from two separate bars cry on my shoulder about the difficulty of doing their job over the past 6 months. I suppose you might expect it was because they had gotten ripped off by several customers who didn't pay them anything at all for ST or that they had been forced to do something icky with a bad customer they didn't like and all that. Nope. It was about how much they hated their mamasan / owner for upping the Lady Drink quota and how sick they get when they have to drink so damn much alcohol every night of their working lives. Not one word about how bad their other customers are. Then again, I didn't ask them to supply me with stories about how bad the other customers are and, therefore, how they don't know how to treat them as well as I do.
[/QUOTE]Your first paragraph is just your knowledgeable fantasizing. You always know would happen if you did something. You cannot accept real information that is contrary to your fantasies. Must always be lies. I report what I see and hear from actual experiences, not imaginings.

Bargirls particular gripe on the day was the mamasan. So what. That is just one example of the problems they face.

Sure all bargirls are liars and tell us nothing but fantasies. Have it your way. So don't go to any bars. Do you like any working girls at all or are they just a piece of meat?

Some of us are trying much harder to understand what is going on, and be able to have our fun, without making girls hate us.

Anyway the reason for upfront payment is very clear, whether at bars or MPs. Episodes of the customer not paying the girl at all, and also episodes of the customer agreeing to pay 2. 5 K (even he did not think the girl could possibly be worth it), and after the deed giving her a vastly reduced sum, saying she wasn't worth the original price, or just taxi money, saying he did not enjoy it. Unfortunately there are no money back guarantees that you will enjoy the fuck. It's a gamble. A contract is a contract but plenty of customers are reneging. It's not like the very old days when nearly all the girls just said it's up to you how much you pay them. That used to be a system that worked out O.K. for them on average as some would underpay and some would overpay. These days, with so much information on the internet guys are more empowered to be always paying bottom prices when they do pay.

So paying up front is simply the way they see to avoid the customer altering the contract after the event. This is really pretty obvious. I am doubtful that each shop will be thinking this is the ideal method for the girl to renege on her duties, although they do realise it can happen too.

As others have said, valued and regular customers at various shops are still given the option to pay later, as those customers already have a reputation for not being a cheat. Many places are thinking we don't need the business of cheats, which are only potential cheats, since they cannot know for sure in advance.

Some guys proudly report on ISG how they sent the girl packing with just taxi money, because she wasn't up to scratch. They just announce themselves as cheats. I am sorry but if you fucked the girl, you have to pay. There is no other option. I am not referring to special cases like she promised two pops and couldn't get you to a second pop or was too tired. I would still pay her provided no clear intent to cheat me. That is tricky, but I am referring to a simple ST booking. If I had a 2 pop agreement with every girl, hell I would never have to pay, right? since I never get to two pops, almost never. Of course this would be the path of a cheat. I am O.K. if a guy negoitiates two prices with the girl, a one pop price and a two pop price, and reasonable time limits. If the girl did her best to get the 2nd pop, she still deserves to be paid for it. Payment for sex is not dependent on a pop. If I don't cum at all, I still pay. With a recent freelancer, her Bj was poor (no experience I guess), and her pussy had no feel at all. Definitely no pop. Bad luck for me. Still have to pay. Still fucked her.

So many cheats exist in society, like the mamasan who refuses to give change, or guy that steals the tip money from the centre pot at a group meal in a restaurant, thinking the tip amount was too high, or just doesn't pay when bill is already covered by tips of others. Sure girls can be cheats too, fortunately has rarely happened to me. I don't trust freelancers too much. They are the most untrustworthy.

The trend towards demanding payment upfront is worrying.

In most service businesses where quality is variable, you pay after the fact. Take restaurants, for instance: you only pay ahead at fast food chains (where you know exactly what you're getting), while in any place with variable quality (even street food if you sit down), they'll let you pay after eating. Most customers don't run away without paying, there is a punishment for that.

In the sex industry, those most at risk of customer not paying are freelancers, and yet, they are rarely in a position to demand money upfront. Bars hire security staff and have police on a retainer, MPs also have doors that can be locked until the customer pays. Sure, there are cheaters and psychopaths out there and non-payment happens, but I don't believe it's too frequent.

In my experience (and it's fairly broad), prostitutes usually insist on upfront payment when they intend to deliver a subpar service for a (relatively) high price, knowing that the customer will contemplate paying less. When they intend to provide standard or good GFE service, they are OK with the customer paying afterwards too. Some take a gamble with "up to you" pricing, and often win big (at least in the old day when sex was cheap and a typical session amazing value from a western perspective).

Most venues with sex on the premises demand payment upfront. It's still a somewhat bad sign (basically that service is borderline value for most customers), but it might be OK at PSE oilies since they have a good reputation for service. Do note that decent oilies give refunds too, I had a flake once at Snow White, and got a full refund (of course, we haven't fucked yet, but did take a shower with some touching and the session went downhill in the first 10 min), so props to them. For whatever reason, that girl no longer works there.

Paying upfront shifts all the risk to the customer, and they're doing it because they can get away with it. In the old times, (a) they couldn't get away with it due to competition and (b) service for the price was generally good enough that not many customers had any misgivings about paying even more than the going rate.

[QUOTE=Crocodilexp;1841897]In my experience (and it's fairly broad), prostitutes usually insist on upfront payment when they intend to deliver a subpar service for a (relatively) high price, knowing that the customer will contemplate paying less. When they intend to provide standard or good GFE service, they are OK with the customer paying afterwards too. Some take a gamble with "up to you" pricing, and often win big (at least in the old day when sex was cheap and a typical session amazing value from a western perspective).

Most venues with sex on the premises demand payment upfront. It's still a somewhat bad sign (basically that service is borderline value for most customers), but it might be OK at PSE oilies since they have a good reputation for service. Do note that decent oilies give refunds too, I had a flake once at Snow White, and got a full refund (of course, we haven't fucked yet, but did take a shower with some touching and the session went downhill in the first 10 min), so props to them. For whatever reason, that girl no longer works there.[/QUOTE]Totaly agree with you! Pay upfront is a big risk for the customer, in fact I never paid upfront any freelancers and avoid the gogo have this rule. If some girl ask for the payment upfront I kindly ask her to leave the room. The only places where sometimes I paid in advance was in PSE oils, but first I talk with the girl and mamasan about which services I want.

[QUOTE=Sunlover2;1841728]Some of the Suk PSE oilies have gone to upfront payment (room charge + lady fee) I can remember Mango Massage and Candy Massage from my last trip. It also gives the provider the opportunity to better differentiate a "tip" at the end of the session as that is traditionally where money changed hands.

Not really liking it personally and not the way it used to be.

SL.[/QUOTE]I was at Mango last week and I always tell them I'll pay after if asked to pay upfront. I've never been refused.

[QUOTE=Bkkdog;1841925]I was at Mango last week and I always tell them I'll pay after if asked to pay upfront. I've never been refused.[/QUOTE]Surely pays being a regular. I feel that other might not get the same experience, bro' Ahahahah.

[QUOTE=BionicMan;1841951]Surely pays being a regular. I feel that other might not get the same experience, bro' Ahahahah.[/QUOTE]I frequent many of the shops in the area on a random and definatly not regular basis, and the only suk MP shop that insists on paymet upfront is Annies. I had actually forgotten about Annies until another poster mentioned it. I normally will hit the same spot for a few times in a row and then move on and repeat the same pattern. I won't end up back at the same shop again for maybe 3 months after I decide to change it up. You don't need to be a regular. You just need to insist on not paying upfront and not look like a broke dick with no money. Smell good, enough with the flip flops, and tank tops. Honestly I work in BKK, speak moderate Thai, and wear a suit everyday so maybe it helps.

[QUOTE=ChristianG;1841906]Totaly agree with you! Pay upfront is a big risk for the customer, in fact I never paid upfront any freelancers and avoid the gogo have this rule. If some girl ask for the payment upfront I kindly ask her to leave the room. The only places where sometimes I paid in advance was in PSE oils, but first I talk with the girl and mamasan about which services I want.[/QUOTE]Actually, paying upfront at most Bangkok MPs is not risky at all, especially if it is a reputable shop that has been around for many years such as Mango, Annies, and Snow White. However go go girls and especially freelancers who demand payment upfront are a clear sign of scam or lousy service. A classic example is paying for LT and then some emergency arises and she promises she will be back or continue the following night. I don't mean paying the go go girl upfront at her bar, but actually after the bar fine and in your room I still refuse to pay her until after the deed. I have lost a few bar fines that way but so be it. Once I was even able to get the BF back from Baccara but I turned around an hour later and Bar fined another lady so it all evened out in the end. On the other hand as I mentioned in a previous post, paying upfront in the bar to the momason and then taking the girl to my room from the local Thai go go's has proven to be ok. I was told if there was a problem, I could come back and change the girl.

What is a good place to buy sex toys in Bangkok?

The street vendors on Suk between Nana and Asoke have only cheap junk.

[QUOTE=DaddySan;1841982]What is a good place to buy sex toys in Bangkok?

The street vendors on Suk between Nana and Asoke have only cheap junk.[/QUOTE]There really isn't. Bring them with you.

[QUOTE=Crocodilexp;1841897]The trend towards demanding payment upfront is worrying.

In most service businesses where quality is variable, you pay after the fact. Take restaurants, for instance: you only pay ahead at fast food chains (where you know exactly what you're getting), while in any place with variable quality (even street food if you sit down), they'll let you pay after eating. Most customers don't run away without paying, there is a punishment for that.

In the sex industry, those most at risk of customer not paying are freelancers, and yet, they are rarely in a position to demand money upfront. Bars hire security staff and have police on a retainer, MPs also have doors that can be locked until the customer pays. Sure, there are cheaters and psychopaths out there and non-payment happens, but I don't believe it's too frequent.

In my experience (and it's fairly broad), prostitutes usually insist on upfront payment when they intend to deliver a subpar service for a (relatively) high price, knowing that the customer will contemplate paying less. When they intend to provide standard or good GFE service, they are OK with the customer paying afterwards too. Some take a gamble with "up to you" pricing, and often win big (at least in the old day when sex was cheap and a typical session amazing value from a western perspective).

Most venues with sex on the premises demand payment upfront. It's still a somewhat bad sign (basically that service is borderline value for most customers), but it might be OK at PSE oilies since they have a good reputation for service. Do note that decent oilies give refunds too, I had a flake once at Snow White, and got a full refund (of course, we haven't fucked yet, but did take a shower with some touching and the session went downhill in the first 10 min), so props to them. For whatever reason, that girl no longer works there.

Paying upfront shifts all the risk to the customer, and they're doing it because they can get away with it. In the old times, (a) they couldn't get away with it due to competition and (b) service for the price was generally good enough that not many customers had any misgivings about paying even more than the going rate.[/QUOTE]Just to play devil's advocate here, there may be another reason for the change to pay first. In recent years the tourist demographics have changed, with an increase of Asian tourists. Most westerners will pay without argument or problem, regardless of the service quality.

However, there are groups with a reputation for being more argumentative, especially when money is involved. Is it possible, there have been a few too many problems with arguments over payment, after the fact, recently?

Just thinking out loud.

[QUOTE=Bkkdog;1841974]I frequent many of the shops in the area on a random and definatly not regular basis, and the only suk MP shop that insists on paymet upfront is Annies. I had actually forgotten about Annies until another poster mentioned it. I normally will hit the same spot for a few times in a row and then move on and repeat the same pattern. I won't end up back at the same shop again for maybe 3 months after I decide to change it up. You don't need to be a regular. You just need to insist on not paying upfront and not look like a broke dick with no money. Smell good, enough with the flip flops, and tank tops. Honestly I work in BKK, speak moderate Thai, and wear a suit everyday so maybe it helps.[/QUOTE]You surprise me. I don't know about insist, but most MPs where I am not well known are taking payment up front. Anyway it makes no difference. The price is all inclusive at many shops and you are expected to pay regardless of on the way in or way out. Probably only Mango knows me well enough to allow me to pay whenever. All soapies take all inclusive payment up front in the modern day, Annies is no exception.

So interesting you would insist to pay afterwards. Don't see the advantage in doing that, unless you intend to cancel after 5 minutes or something. Can you explain?

[QUOTE=JjBee62;1842018]Just to play devil's advocate here, there may be another reason for the change to pay first. In recent years the tourist demographics have changed, with an increase of Asian tourists. Most westerners will pay without argument or problem, regardless of the service quality.

However, there are groups with a reputation for being more argumentative, especially when money is involved. Is it possible, there have been a few too many problems with arguments over payment, after the fact, recently?

Just thinking out loud.[/QUOTE]I don't see the difference between this reason and the others I gave.

I don't know the exact racial demographic of guys that want a free fuck or get angry that service wasn't all they expected. However I assure you that westerners are some of them.

Certainly a common problem with Thais at Soapies. I remember the old days when some soapies had a separate Thai Booran massage fee paid up front and girl was paid separately for the special. I was quite close to a soapy girl 15 years ago, even I dislike Thai massage. LOL. She commented on being cheated by the Thai customers plenty of times. Wasn't too long before they changed to all inclusive fee. It then became clear you could not just go get an "ancient healing massage" alone any more. You had to pay for more than that up front.

I am sure Indians and Chinese, and the full spectrum, suddenly found themselves with no money to pay the girl when girl and massage payments were separate. So shops decided to bring in all inclusive charges.

Is there one super trustworthy race or nationality? I don't know of one, but maybe.

I thought I might share my recent trip to Bangkok although I have a few more days here. Went to Annies the first day but the selection was not to my liking, mostly older women or simply did not fit my taster. Although a number of you pointed out Thailand for Thais, CIS in Russia or Europe, I do not have the necessary means to travel there. For me CIS was to be the highlight of my trip while I would definitely stick to more Thais. So I thought about trying the Rajah and Grace. Went to Rajah at after 10 as instructed by a few members here and as per my previous trip to Bangkok where I was fortunately enough to get a line up of 7-8 looking CIS. The doorman approached me but told me 'no more no more'. What a pity. Is its possible he did so cause I look a bit Indian? I am young, decent looking, dressed smartly but he still did so. I tried looking inside Rajah a few time too but never did I see any CIS in the lobby or coming out to smoke. I presume either they do not have them anymore or because of the reason I mentioned earlier because I did see a few girls turn down Indian clients, my bad. Any other places where we can get CIS? I also tried Grace a couple of times around 12 am but the quality is seriously lacking.

Visited Nana, Spankies too crowded but great shows, Angelwitch no show and girls lacking quality, Bangkok Bunnies was alright but I picked up twice from Rainbow 3 and both times were better to be forgotten. Visited Mitu Japanese Massage (not the no hands massage) soi33 and booked for 70 minutes, service was the same and half the time she was on her phone pretending to massage me when the deed was done, no second round and CBJ. Nyan Nyan soi 33 was amazing and was eager to please but cannot recall her name. Went to EZMassage 1 and though she was not a looker had an amazing conversation, CBJ and decent time. Also tried the Bangkok backpage and booked Kate who claims to be a model, 170 cm tall but she was a good looker though not the same as her picture. Again the service was horrible, CBJ but popped twice in 1 hour and sent her off as she could not hold a decent conversation though I booked her for 2 hours. Booked Bovi from new Bangkok escorts Picture was heavily photoshopped but it was her and had an amazing session with her, BBBJ and great conversation.

Thinking of checking out Crazy House tonight. Will keep you all posted. Any help on where I can find CIS?

[QUOTE=EihTooms;1841658]I have never heard this story from the girls I have been with. But it seems other customers hear these stories from the girls they have been with, so I suppose there are such stories to tell. I know there are assholes out there. But how often would a man who wants to find a beautiful girl for the night who treats him well in the room decide upon striking gold with that damned hard to find combination that this is the perfect opportunity to save 2000-2500 baht, never be treated to her treasures and service again and most certainly be marked lousy in that bar forever by dodging payment entirely? Something just doesn't smell right about this story some bargirls tell other customers but have never told me.

This Ging girl is beautiful, supposedly the best looking girl in one of the hottest go-go bars in Asia if not the entire world and apparently gives decent service in the room worth the money she demands. Yet she has managed with only a few months off and on in the business over a couple of years to be plagued by enough (several?) guys willing to scoff at the presumably utterly disposable combination of fabulous looks and worthy service / performance in the room to rip her off that her standard policy now with any newcomers is to get the mamasan to collect it all upfront? Seriously?

Something doesn't compute. Either she has discovered she really isn't worth the money once the hotel room door closes and she is alone with the customer or that girl has the worst luck in all of Thailand's go-go bars in choosing new customers.

Personally, if a mamasan or a girl in one of the most popular, standing room only go-go bars on the planet told me that the reason she needs to collect the money upfront is because "several customers did not pay for (her) ST at all", I would take that as a flashing red warning sign to move on to another girl. I mean, there has got to be a reason for that beyond that there are a lot of assholes out there and/or that she is that unlucky to have been targeted by so many of them in the past and fully expects to be targeted by more of them from now on. One customer who just up and ran out without paying a beautiful girl for decent service, ok. Two customers who shorted her by trying to get away with only paying her 1000 baht or something like that, sure. But SEVERAL customers over the course of a few months during a couple of years who didn't pay her anything at all?! I don't know, man. I guess I'd like to hear those customers' side of the story before I only blame them and not her for that so often recurring outcome.[/QUOTE]Agreed wholeheartedly. If lots of customers aren't paying then there is something wrong with the service and we are right to be wary. At the prices these gals are charging I expect that door to close and for them to have sex with me like they are with a BF they really like or as if they are starring in a porn flick. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. Now, if I am paying 1 k Baht my service standards would be very different, but if you want 100 USD or close to it honey, then you better well perform. And no trying to skip out with 15 min of sex and then begging me to "finish. " Of course I can normally tell in the first few minutes how the session will go. The second that door closes I am DFKing the gal like a horny young man. Groping and getting with it. If she responds favorably, I know that I am in business. If she pushes me away and says, "shower, shower," then trouble might be afoot. I still proceed though. Once we are done with the shower if she refuses DFK, does not want to be fingered, and refuses DATY, then the session is over. I get up, get dressed, leave a couple of hundred Baht and am out of there. Sorry, no one should be compensated the full amount for poor service. What really gets me is how this kind of service has become acceptable with so many punters, and in fact they will defend gals who do not perform. When I moved here it was the kiss of death for a gal to get a reputation as a non-performer. Dudes just would not take them.

So, pay upfront? No way. And I never pay upfront in oilies and have never been asked. Of course you never run the risk of extremely awful service at any of the PSE shops. Just sometimes extremely awful looks.

[QUOTE=Crocodilexp;1841897]The trend towards demanding payment upfront is worrying.

In most service businesses where quality is variable, you pay after the fact. Take restaurants, for instance: you only pay ahead at fast food chains (where you know exactly what you're getting), while in any place with variable quality (even street food if you sit down), they'll let you pay after eating. Most customers don't run away without paying, there is a punishment for that.

In the sex industry, those most at risk of customer not paying are freelancers, and yet, they are rarely in a position to demand money upfront. Bars hire security staff and have police on a retainer, MPs also have doors that can be locked until the customer pays. Sure, there are cheaters and psychopaths out there and non-payment happens, but I don't believe it's too frequent.

In my experience (and it's fairly broad), prostitutes usually insist on upfront payment when they intend to deliver a subpar service for a (relatively) high price, knowing that the customer will contemplate paying less. When they intend to provide standard or good GFE service, they are OK with the customer paying afterwards too. Some take a gamble with "up to you" pricing, and often win big (at least in the old day when sex was cheap and a typical session amazing value from a western perspective).

Most venues with sex on the premises demand payment upfront. It's still a somewhat bad sign (basically that service is borderline value for most customers), but it might be OK at PSE oilies since they have a good reputation for service. Do note that decent oilies give refunds too, I had a flake once at Snow White, and got a full refund (of course, we haven't fucked yet, but did take a shower with some touching and the session went downhill in the first 10 min), so props to them. For whatever reason, that girl no longer works there.

Paying upfront shifts all the risk to the customer, and they're doing it because they can get away with it. In the old times, (a) they couldn't get away with it due to competition and (b) service for the price was generally good enough that not many customers had any misgivings about paying even more than the going rate.[/QUOTE]We are purchasing a service. When I purchase other services I pay when the service has been completed. I don't pay for my car repair beforehand and I don't pay for sexual services beforehand. Guys, it is important to keep the tide on our side. There is enough of it against us with as has been stated changing demographics, etc. Having the money be the reward for a good time given is the power we need to keep. Stick to your guns.