General Info

[QUOTE=Radler]Well, I do think there is a clearly heirarchy of clubs in terms of the appearance of the women. Of the clubs I regularly visit, I'd put Palace at the top, closely followed by Oase and GT. F39 is a step down, the women are more girl next door types. Based on my visits Bernds, I'd put the appearance of the women a step down from F39.

Don't get me wrong, I tend to go for women in the middle of the pack appearance-wise. It's not a conscious thing, it's just the way my radar and my dick guide me.[/QUOTE]
I put Oase above Palace, and agree that Bernd's is not on the top of the list. I also don't go most of the time for the model types, since many of them are too caught up in themselves to provide good service. Many, not all. Leonie at Bernd's is a great exception to this rule. Each of us knows of others.

[QUOTE=Radler]The girls in the clubs are there to make money. Aside from comfort level with a given club, the women gravitate to clubs where they can maximize their earnings. I was speaking to a top girl at a club who seemed to be considering moving on to another club. She is constantly busy and seems to have quite a few regulars. Reason she is considering moving on is to maximize her earnings (higher pricing on extras, etc.)

Witness the Summer-Winter migration between GT and Palace. Mara, a top act at Bernds would probably be a mid-tier pick (mostly based on appearance) at GT or Oase. She would probably develop a Regi-like following over time.

Svenja is another case in point. She is a very nice lady and I've had enjoyable sessions with her at Bernds. She's probably in the top third, appearance-wise, of the women at Bernds. If you put her at Palace, Oase or GT, she's probably in the lower half appearance-wise. Again, she's a delightful lady and delivers a nice sessions. Ask yourself why she does an FT session at Bernds for 50E that would fetch her 75E at GT or 100E at Palace or Oase. It is likely because she would session less frequently at any of these clubs because of the ccompetition.[/QUOTE]
Actually, I know the reason for that. Alot of the women who work in the smaller clubs, prefer the ambience and more controlled structure of these clubs. They are also less "transactional" in mindset. True, it could be that they know that they may not cut it at the big clubs like GT and Oase, but it's also true that many of them prefer the clubs based on return stammgest business, rather than the tourist centered clubs.

[QUOTE=Radler]As far as promised service levels, the only thing the women promise you is that you will get sucked and fucked. They make no promises that they are any good at either activity.[/QUOTE]
IMO, promised FKK service levels should always include couch action, DFK, BBBJ, and DATY. A worker at one of these clubs providing these services, is expected to be a proficient at what she does.

[QUOTE=Radler]You may like them for reasons other than cheapness, to each his on. However, your initial thesis was that with the financial downturn, more mongers will turn to "value for money" clubs. FKKs are so riduculously cheap by North American standards, that I see no need to cut corners for "value for money".[/QUOTE]
I wasn't professing an initial thesis, rather contemplating if we shouldn't rein ourselves in more and concentrate more on those places that have repeatedly proven that they provide us with the service that we're seeking, rather than widening our horizons, moving out of our comfort zones, and opening ourselves up to having less than satisfactory experiences. I have no doubt that you have a much better time at Palace than I did (I know- I still owe a report). I still went to Palace, not for value for money, but because, it exists in the FKK universe in which I have a keen interest. I could have chosen that night to go to Oase, at which I feel much more comfortable and have had innumerable great experiences.

[QUOTE=Radler]you can't deny your inner cheapness when making statements like "added bonus is that there's no charge for most of the popular extras" and "due to the relative price per pop".[/QUOTE]
That's taking what I wrote out of context.
Here's what I wrote about Bernd's:
"I go to Bernd's, which is not a "cheap" club with the 70 Euro entry fee, because the sessions are uniformly great and the atmosphere is unmatched anywhere in the FKK universe. It may not be your cup of tea, but it is my elixir of youth. The added bonus is that there's no charge for most of the popular extras."
It's an added bonus, and as has been adequately documented on this forum, is not the motivatior for me going there. I don't actively seek out FT providers, but I enjoy CIM and COB if that's what follows the flow of the action. It's nice to know that it's on the menu even if I don't order it, because I could be hungry later, and it kills the mood to get the price list and have to negotiate in the heat of passion. How does that show my "inner cheapness"?

Here's what I wrote about PT's:
"I continue to go to partytreffs which you could classify as cheap "value for money" alternatives due to the relative price per pop, because I like the open anything goes type of sexual activity, and some of the craziest times in my life have happened in a partytreff environment."
I wrote that you could classify it as a cheap value for money alternative because of the price per pop. That that is not the reason that I go to these clubs- some times I like to experience more wilder, open and even kinkier sexual environments for variety's sake. How does that show my "inner cheapness"?

[QUOTE=CBGBConnisur]Wouldn't most Muslim guys be turned away from this "Mecca"? I heard people complain about Sankt Augustine, Bernd's old sister club having a racist door policy.[/QUOTE]
But then again I wasn't really paying attention either.

Will someone approach Connie the next time they are at Bernds and ask her if there was such a policy?

She was the main Thekenfrau at the Sankt Augustine-Meindorf club and she would tell you (if you catch her in a good mood).

Come to think of it, I can't remember many Turkish clients at Bernds either. The mix of Bernds guests is quite distinctively skewed.

[QUOTE=Jackyo]The mix of Bernds guests is quite distinctively skewed.[/QUOTE]
I would probably put it a bit differently. The mix of Bernd's guests is quite distinctively screwed (only in a carnal sense))!! The ROD's and other posts describe this very eloquently.

I have to say that I have observed guests of a number of hues at Bernd's and not seen any hesitation of the girls to spend time in or out the rooms with them. I do recall several different Japanese and Chinese guests, at least one Afro-American, and several Indian/Pakistani guests. I would have spoken with all of them, some of them extensively and none expressed any concern about their treatment overt or otherwise and on the contrary were frankly knocked-out at being in one of the historic inns in FKKland.

Granted a limited sample, but one based upon personal observation rather than hearsay.

[QUOTE=Iseeu]I put Oase above Palace, and agree that Bernd's is not on the top of the list. I also don't go most of the time for the model types, since many of them are too caught up in themselves to provide good service. Many, not all. Leonie at Bernd's is a great exception to this rule. Each of us knows of others.

Actually, I know the reason for that. Alot of the women who work in the smaller clubs, prefer the ambience and more controlled structure of these clubs. They are also less "transactional" in mindset. True, it could be that they know that they may not cut it at the big clubs like GT and Oase, but it's also true that many of them prefer the clubs based on return stammgest business, rather than the tourist centered clubs.

IMO, promised FKK service levels should always include couch action, DFK, BBBJ, and DATY. A worker at one of these clubs providing these services, is expected to be a proficient at what she does.

I wasn't professing an initial thesis, rather contemplating if we shouldn't rein ourselves in more and concentrate more on those places that have repeatedly proven that they provide us with the service that we're seeking, rather than widening our horizons, moving out of our comfort zones, and opening ourselves up to having less than satisfactory experiences. I have no doubt that you have a much better time at Palace than I did (I know- I still owe a report). I still went to Palace, not for value for money, but because, it exists in the FKK universe in which I have a keen interest. I could have chosen that night to go to Oase, at which I feel much more comfortable and have had innumerable great experiences.

That's taking what I wrote out of context.

Here's what I wrote about Bernd's:

"I go to Bernd's, which is not a "cheap" club with the 70 Euro entry fee, because the sessions are uniformly great and the atmosphere is unmatched anywhere in the FKK universe. It may not be your cup of tea, but it is my elixir of youth. The added bonus is that there's no charge for most of the popular extras."

It's an added bonus, and as has been adequately documented on this forum, is not the motivatior for me going there. I don't actively seek out FT providers, but I enjoy CIM and COB if that's what follows the flow of the action. It's nice to know that it's on the menu even if I don't order it, because I could be hungry later, and it kills the mood to get the price list and have to negotiate in the heat of passion. How does that show my "inner cheapness"?

Here's what I wrote about PT's:

"I continue to go to partytreffs which you could classify as cheap "value for money" alternatives due to the relative price per pop, because I like the open anything goes type of sexual activity, and some of the craziest times in my life have happened in a partytreff environment."

I wrote that you could classify it as a cheap value for money alternative because of the price per pop. That that is not the reason that I go to these clubs- some times I like to experience more wilder, open and even kinkier sexual environments for variety's sake. How does that show my "inner cheapness"?[/QUOTE]
... looking for a good price-value relationship or what is called in German a [i]Preisleistungsverhaeltnis[/i].

Tough times require tough measures. One has to decide for himself whether he is getting the maximum "bang for the buck", where he is getting his needs met.

Its a large global market out there. My alternative when I was contemplating my last romp in Deutschland was Montreal but I have issues with the selection process there and I don't get the kind of variety I find in Deutschland.

I also am of the view that there are women who deliver good service, there are women who provide good visuals and there are women who provide both good service and good visuals.

The latter group is hard to find.

There are average women who provide good service and terrible service. At the same time there are stunners who provide good service and terrible service. Its all in what you consider to be a priority and how well you screen to find your object of lust.

Overall, the average chick provides an average experience. Its usually nothing to write home about, at least for me. Its when she takes that experience and makes it into a Girlfriend Experience that I think she's gone the extra mile. A GFE, in my mind though, has nothing to do with that alphabet soup of abbreviations which most guys use to create a GFE equation.

Women I consider a GFE are women who remember me when I return and know what I like and dislike. I don't like visiting clubs where the women don't want to be bothered with this kind of thing.

What I wonder about is how anyone can say that a thirty minute session was a GFE. I say this because when I've been with real girlfriends, she would never stand up after thirty minutes and start making the bed. I enjoy poking for the sake of poking and if she gets me in the mood, we can have very long poking sessions with conversation and breaks thrown in every now and then.

This is my definition of what a GFE is about.

This is why I like PTs. If I find someone I can get along with there, I've had super long poking sessions there without a clock ticking in the background. That "if" is the challenge but not having to watch the meter is a big incentive.

Perfecting one's observation skills is key. Visually stunning women who get no action are suspect in my book. We are talking Optikfick here. The regulars have them figured out and you are bucking the common wisdom to go with a chick like that. There are a lot of really good looking women who are duds personality wise or who provide terrible service.

Then there are plain Janes out there who are constantly booked. They, in my mind, are the ones you should make a beeline for. The proof is that there are already guys who do.

The two extremes for clubs are the neighborhood, Stammgast-oriented clubs on one extreme and the large, tourist-oriented clubs on the other extreme. The women gravitate to the clubs which best suit their tendencies and likes-dislikes: The relationship-oriented inhabit the first type of club, the more transactional inhabit the second type of club.

My preferences are known on this issue but everyone should go out and form their own preferences.

All I ask is that if you stick with what you like.

If my memory is still good a canadian guy of clear indian origin showed up at Bernd's on the same day of the first ISG international meeting.

And he has been treated very well by the girls.

He fucked 4 girls in less than 6 hours!

PS: I think it's time to organize another ISG meeting.

I would like to set up a meeting in Germany and an "exotic" one in Bangkok!
What do you think?

Regards,

Italy 1974

[QUOTE=Excess]I would probably put it a bit differently. The mix of Bernd's guests is quite distinctively screwed (only in a carnal sense))!! The ROD's and other posts describe this very eloquently.

I have to say that I have observed guests of a number of hues at Bernd's and not seen any hesitation of the girls to spend time in or out the rooms with them. I do recall several different Japanese and Chinese guests, at least one Afro-American, and several Indian/Pakistani guests. I would have spoken with all of them, some of them extensively and none expressed any concern about their treatment overt or otherwise and on the contrary were frankly knocked-out at being in one of the historic inns in FKKland.

Granted a limited sample, but one based upon personal observation rather than hearsay.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Italy 1974]If my memory is still good a canadian guy of clear indian origin showed up at Bernd's on the same day of the first ISG international meeting. And he has been treated very well by the girls. He fucked 4 girls in less than 6 hours!

PS: I think it's time to organize another ISG meeting. [/QUOTE]

Hi Italy 1974,

I also understand that another Asian man from the midlands of Gross Britannia was also admitted to Bernds for a decent period of sucking and fucking. He has written of his exploits before on another forum.

I may be able to set aside a weekday visit to take the haij to Bernds Mecca to pay homage to the Mufti.

Regards

Londonbasketcase

[QUOTE=Londonbasketcase]Hi Italy 1974,

I also understand that another Asian man from the midlands of Gross Britannia was also admitted to Bernds for a decent period of sucking and fucking. He has written of his exploits before on another forum.

I may be able to set aside a weekday visit to take the haij to Bernds Mecca to pay homage to the Mufti.

Regards

Londonbasketcase[/QUOTE]

Bernds to the best of my knowledge does not turn folks away based on race.

A friend who was twice turned away at GT (persumably based on race, but I have no desire to resurrect that argument) had no problem being admitted at Bernds.

[QUOTE=Iseeu]I put Oase above Palace, and agree that Bernd's is not on the top of the list. I also don't go most of the time for the model types, since many of them are too caught up in themselves to provide good service. Many, not all. Leonie at Bernd's is a great exception to this rule. Each of us knows of others. [/QUOTE]Reasonable people can disagree on ranking of appearances of the women at Palace, Oase and GT. They are really not that far apart.

As mentioned, I tend to go to the middle of the pack for a couple reasons. An almost sure fire way to select a woman for good service is to find a woman who is average in looks who is constantly busy.

I like having a high quotient of eye candy for a few of reasons. First, the middle of the pack is pretty damn good. Second, once in a blue moon, I like to go for a stunning young woman, early 20s, blond, flawless body with a "barely legal" look. I know going into it the service will not be stellar, but sometimes you just really want to fuck a fantasy woman. Lastly, I like looking at naked or scantily clad women. I really, really like it. Having a higher appearance quotient makes the experience more enjoyable.


[QUOTE=Iseeu]Actually, I know the reason for that. Alot of the women who work in the smaller clubs, prefer the ambience and more controlled structure of these clubs. They are also less "transactional" in mindset. True, it could be that they know that they may not cut it at the big clubs like GT and Oase, but it's also true that many of them prefer the clubs based on return stammgest business, rather than the tourist centered clubs.[/QUOTE]Well, I did mention comfort level as a factor, alluding to what you stated. However, you can never really know women's motivations. They tell you one thing and do another. FKK women I think are even more skewed that civilian women.

Ortos alluded that Czech Linda is working her way through the Hessen big three trying to figure out which will maximize her earning. I suspect if Linda is still in the game ten years from now, she will be working at Bernds telling customers that she prefers the ambience and the more controlled structure on Bernds.

[QUOTE=Iseeu]IMO, promised FKK service levels should always include couch action, DFK, BBBJ, and DATY. A worker at one of these clubs providing these services, is expected to be a proficient at what she does. [/QUOTE]Yep, meant BBBJ. Covered BJ is unacceptable (unless that is your preference). I don't really care one way or another on DFK and DATY. I rarely indulge in DATY in a club (weirdly I tend to reserve that for civilian girls. DFK is part of the girlfriend illusion which is inconguent with having a girl blow you to completion in public.

Couch action is variable by club. F39 and Bernds are the only clubs I frequent where it is still common. You can make it happen at Palace or Oase, but almost no girl will initiate it. The Kino seems to have replaced the couch at most clubs. This is why I will not go to clubs without a Kino.

[QUOTE=Iseeu]I wasn't professing an initial thesis, rather contemplating if we shouldn't rein ourselves in more and concentrate more on those places that have repeatedly proven that they provide us with the service that we're seeking, rather than widening our horizons, moving out of our comfort zones, and opening ourselves up to having less than satisfactory experiences. I have no doubt that you have a much better time at Palace than I did (I know- I still owe a report). I still went to Palace, not for value for money, but because, it exists in the FKK universe in which I have a keen interest. I could have chosen that night to go to Oase, at which I feel much more comfortable and have had innumerable great experiences.[/QUOTE]Contemplating altering behaviour because because of the "economic crunch" is code for spending less money. The same activity can be both getting a good value and being cheap. The difference is simply the connotation. Consider the following two scenarios:

You hook up with a very pretty freelance Issan girl in Thailand. She initially asks 2500 Baht long time, but because of the drop off in tourist trade you bargan her down to 1000 Baht all night.

Was that a good value for the money, or is that cheap?

Second scenario, same girl gives you the night of your life. Treats you like she loves you, the sex is the best in your life. You fuck three of four times befor sleeping, she happily lets you fuck her in the ass, and finishes each time by swallowing you load. She lets you take pictures. What ever you want to do she is enthusiastically into. You fall asleep exhausted bodies entwined. You awaked a couple of times in the night to discover her blowing you. In the morning, the sex is even better than last night.

As you are getting ready to leave, she asks if you would like to hang out together today. She clearly wants to turn this into a multiple day girlfriend arrangement (presumably at 1000 Baht a day). As you want to sample other ladies, you decline. She smiles and asks could she at least have a couple of hundred baht for cab fare. Knowing full well she can get anywhere on the skytrain for under 50 baht, you give her 50 baht and she is on her way.

Was that a good value for the money, or is that cheap?

[QUOTE=Iseeu]That's taking what I wrote out of context.[/QUOTE]Well, I quoted the entire quote, so kind of hard to argue that excerpting in my sentence was taking out of context.

Didn't Govenor Blagoavich claim his comments were taken out of context as well?

[QUOTE=Iseeu]I don't actively seek out FT providers, but I enjoy CIM and COB if that's what follows the flow of the action. It's nice to know that it's on the menu even if I don't order it, because I could be hungry later, and it kills the mood to get the price list and have to negotiate in the heat of passion.[/QUOTE]No relation to your inner cheapness. Although I didn't think CIM was standard service for every woman at Bernds, so if you want it, you still have to ask if it is on the menu if you want it from a woman you haven't been with. Every club I go to, with the exception of F39, CIM is a fixed price. At F39, it is up to the girl, but no girl has ever asked for more than 30Euro from me.

I don't COB so doesn't matter to me whether it is offered included or whatever.

Depending on how it is handled it can be quite hot. Iraqi Lena at Palace telling me "I want you to fuck me in my ass" is hot, even if I didn't take her up on the offer. Koko beseaching me to come in her mouth whilest fucking her and getting close is hot.

If a girl asks for non-standard pricing, it is annoying. I just say no. Not a boner killer, but it does diminish the session. This happens once in a blue moon for me at Palace, Oase and GT. F39 is a negotiation for FT if you want to, but I always just accept the offering price.

Let's end this discussion as it is getting rather circular and seems to be at its root about connotations, or one more response from you and I'll drop it. Would you just do this for me in the spirit of monger comraderee? Just say it once, "Geiz ist geil"

[QUOTE=Radler]a stunning young woman, early 20s, blond, flawless body with a "barely legal" look[/QUOTE]Hey, I wasn't letting on, but she's my favourite too. :-)

I was driving on my way home the other day and a Land Rover with German plates driving in the opposite direction approached.

Its plates were clearly marked VIE.

I'm thinking to myself: "VIE! I know where that is! VIE is Viersen."

Viersen is, of course, just around the corner from PHG.

For a second that flash of recognition took me to another time and another place. It will be a while before I return to that club.

Does anyone know if any of the clubs show the superbowl or remember a club having it on last year? I know that by the time the game actually starts it would be close to 2am in Germany...but its possible it might be rebroadcast the next day.

[QUOTE=Jackyo]I was driving on my way home the other day and a Land Rover with German plates driving in the opposite direction approached.

Its plates were clearly marked VIE.

I'm thinking to myself: "VIE! I know where that is! VIE is Viersen."

Viersen is, of course, just around the corner from PHG.

For a second that flash of recognition took me to another time and another place. It will be a while before I return to that club.[/QUOTE]

A few days ago I was driving a mietwagen bound for GT on the A52 between Duesseldorf and Roermond. I passed several vehicles plated with VIE and thought the same as you: That must stand for Viersen...

Great minds think alike...

Ortos

[QUOTE=Breadman]Does anyone know if any of the clubs show the superbowl or remember a club having it on last year? I know that by the time the game actually starts it would be close to 2am in Germany...but its possible it might be rebroadcast the next day.[/QUOTE]


Hi Breadman

I just know that the ARD (one of the two biggest, non-private tv-channels in Germany – as you probably know) will broadcast it on Sunday from 0am on.

No offence – I personally love sports – but I seriously doubt, they will show it at any of the clubs – given the general interest for that particular sport in Europe. I might be totally wrong though and someone else remembers watching it at some point in a club?

;–) Globus

[QUOTE=Globus]

No offence – I personally love sports – but I seriously doubt, they will show it at any of the clubs – given the general interest for that particular sport in Europe. I might be totally wrong though and someone else remembers watching it at some point in a club?
[/QUOTE]

Just curious if i'll see any of the game or not. But to be honest, if im doing a trip to Germany and Fkk land, last thing im thinking about is catching the game. Priorities.

[QUOTE=Breadman]Does anyone know if any of the clubs show the superbowl or remember a club having it on last year? I know that by the time the game actually starts it would be close to 2am in Germany...but its possible it might be rebroadcast the next day.[/QUOTE]


I have watched super bowls in the past in the relax zone at FKK World.
beffen