Bangkok Reports

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1901416]I think a lot of residents compare BKK now to what it was 15 years ago and truth be told it is an shadow of itself when it comes to the P4 P industry. [/QUOTE]If that is indeed the trend then by the same token the scene today wil lbe much better than it will be in the next years.

So there are good reasons to partake now and enjoy it.

And really, who cares about how it was yesterday, last year or ten years ago? For lack of a time machine, that's a closed book now. Should I be sad I don't live in medieval times where I could exert my [I]ius primae noctis[/I] on the virgins of the village? Or that it is not done anymore to drag the women by their hair into my cave where I can ravage them all night long? I'm happy to live now and that I can travel to places such as Bangkok or Pattaya where sex is available and fun and where I can join in without having to take a second mortgage on my house.

All such recollections of past times are nice to read perhaps, but add nothing for those who did not experience them.

Maybe Jackson should open a new thread: "Recollections of old mongers"?

What's the recent pricing you've found in Bangkok gogo bars? Want to add to this list so that we have a reference point for barfines and ST / LT at the different gogos?

Crazy House. BF 700. ST 3000 with #90 "Pink". The mami with the long face and glasses wanted 1000 for BF plus 3000 girl's ST, all prepaid. I got into an argument with her and later paid 700 BF to a different mami, girl was paid separately afterwards. I remember BF being 600 previously and girls being in the 2500 range ST. But this girl was great, cute, real spinner and a good fuck. By the way, didn't know there is a restaurant up on the 4th floor of Crazy House. Food was not bad. What are the recent amounts everyone's paid for BF and ST / LT at Crazy House?

Good folks on ISG.

Have been a long time lurker at the BKK forum, learning from your collective wisdom all the time. Just finished by 8th visit here and this time something happened, that I thought needs to be shared and maybe seek your collective advice / thoughts on.

My regular modus operandi before I get to Thailand is to chat up a few FL's on TF, Skout, Tinder, etc because I'm not a fan of the hardcore go-go bar scene. An occasional soapy, or massage experience is OK, but mainly I crave the GFE of a semi. Pro.

This strategy has served me well in the past. It has been well documented as well by a few of you. I like the relative uncertainty of meeting a gal this way and seeing how it plays out. Yeah sure, it has not always been happy sailing (one time I ended up at the police station, but that's story best forgotten). I have always been careful of not getting that emotional shit carry on beyond our first meeting. I make sure to pay her some amount, which makes sure to her that I'm not in it for the long haul.

So generally the kind of girls who meet up are either young and stupid, looking to buy the next iPhone or the Chanel dress, or 30+ milfs with mouths to feed, but face to save (typical Thai culture) and so go the semi pro route. This time though, was chatting up a working gal, works a pretty decent job, super cute, rocking hot bod, no kids, no commitments. That was a first for me, so I was kinda interested. I did make my intentions clear that I'm not in it for the long haul. She still insisted that we meet.

Picked her up from the BTS, back to my hotel room was a short 10 min walk. This chick went to work on me like there was no tomorrow. First night we did it 3 times. Next day she insisted we go to the kings palace. Paid for the taxi herself, paid for the food herself, even upon me insisting that I should pay. Back to the room and went to work again.

To cut a long story short, I've never had a romp like this, even during my college days, and that's saying a lot. Next morning, I was spent dry and sore. And she insisted on one last one. I told her, that's not happening, I might have to go to the hospital. Well, you know what happens when a Thai gal gets an idea in her head, she is unstoppable. Guess what, we did it one more time, and she taking me in her mouth, looking up and saying, "I win". Damn.

She then proceeded to launder all clothes, and iron them. I kept telling her, don't do stuff for me, but she wouldn't take no for an answer. I also made it pretty clear to her that I'm not in it for the long haul, she didn't seem to mind.

Now, I'm not handsome, not really rich, not young (35, she is 28 and cute as a button) and Indian (keeping it real here, Thai girls are not known to fall head over heels with Indians).

This has left me totally confused, never before have I been with a Thai girl (who is clearly not an FL, because I dropped her to her workplace the next day) who has acted in this way. Not sure if I should meet her again or even talk to her online.

[QUOTE=Wolvenvacht;1901485]If that is indeed the trend then by the same token the scene today wil lbe much better than it will be in the next years.

So there are good reasons to partake now and enjoy it.

And really, who cares about how it was yesterday, last year or ten years ago? For lack of a time machine, that's a closed book now. Should I be sad I don't live in medieval times where I could exert my [I]ius primae noctis[/I] on the virgins of the village? Or that it is not done anymore to drag the women by their hair into my cave where I can ravage them all night long? I'm happy to live now and that I can travel to places such as Bangkok or Pattaya where sex is available and fun and where I can join in without having to take a second mortgage on my house.

All such recollections of past times are nice to read perhaps, but add nothing for those who did not experience them.

Maybe Jackson should open a new thread: "Recollections of old mongers"?[/QUOTE]And that being said, you cannot really understand how those of us feel having had those experiences and seeing the scene now. It's really depressing. And yes, my guess is in 15 years it will be even worse.

Anyone know if the "Easy" street bar is still open outside Citibank Soi cowboy, the "country road" end. I'm being told closed due to girls. Was there last week when it got a police / army check and they took a girl away.

[QUOTE=Jontwd;1900880]Hi guys,

I'm looking for a nice slow sensual massage that slowly edges you to climax, similar to the Tui Jin in Macau or like this video.

[URL]http://i.4cdn.org/gif/1467103906075.webm[/URL]

Are there such providers in Bangkok?

Another question;.

I'll be heading down to Bangkok next week, would like to find out if these are the main points I should cover for the best "see before you pick" experiences in Bangkok (I'm a guy who likes to get the ability to see and pick, so things like Kapoo massage and Mitu massage don't really work for me as the photos tend to end up much better than the actual person);.

- Soaplands like The Lord Palace, Emanuelle, Poisedon (are there better ones?

- Soi Cowboy for Bacarra & Crazy House.

- Thermae Bar.

- Nana Plaza.

Any others that I should be trying out?[/QUOTE]Soi 22 has a side-street with places that offer this. There is Analisa / Tantra Massage (same girls, 2 different buildings). There is also Honey Bee Massage. They have websites you can google to see pictures of the girls. I recently went to Analisa and I really dislike the service quality AND price. They charge way too much for a handjob, and try to sell it like it is some kind of kinky service. The 2 girls I saw were very, very poorly skilled at everything. The idea being that tantric massage is supposed to take a skilled massusease is one thing, these 2 women couldn't even do a regular massage / HJ right. Fucking boring and waste of money. My advice, is to go there if you want and roll the dice. The better skilled ones were all pre-booked when I went, so you have to read reviews and find the skilled ones, and pre-book.

Also, they charge $3000 baht for "tease and denial" 1 hour, which I think is what you want. $3000 for a handjob by a lady that looks like dog meat. Otherwise they offer tantra massage which is really just a regular sensual massage with a very minor amount of half-hearted teasing and a dirty fake peacock feather.

But, please do check out those places and let us know if you find a good provider. I'm thinking Honey Bee Massage might be better since their prices are lower and I thought their girls were reasonable skilled when I went a year ago (and they looked somewhat more attractive too).

[QUOTE=RajuSingh788;1901557]
This has left me totally confused, never before have I been with a Thai girl (who is clearly not an FL, because I dropped her to her workplace the next day) who has acted in this way. Not sure if I should meet her again or even talk to her online.[/QUOTE]Why do you question your good luck?

If she pushes all your buttons and isn't (yet) making any financial demands, by all means: continue! A good strategy is to reinforce success.

[QUOTE=RajuSingh788;1901557]Now, I'm not handsome, not really rich, not young (35, she is 28 and cute as a button) and Indian (keeping it real here, Thai girls are not known to fall head over heels with Indians).

This has left me totally confused, never before have I been with a Thai girl (who is clearly not an FL, because I dropped her to her workplace the next day) who has acted in this way. Not sure if I should meet her again or even talk to her online.[/QUOTE]I agree with Wolvenvacht: there does not seem to be anything to panic about (yet). Sounds like you have plenty of experience, and so I am sure you can handle whatever she throws at you.

My take on this is that despite you telling her that you are not in it for the long haul, she has decided that you will be hers for the long haul. Kind of like that last BJ you got: you said no, she said yes, and when she did you, she told you that she wins. So she may be trying to strong arm you into falling for her. So I would just keep mentioning, in a nice and respectful kind of way, that you are not interested in commitments. And of course, make sure you keep paying her. Heck, the money you save on laundry might make the whole thing worthwhile.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1901416]Natty, I think a lot of residents compare BKK now to what it was 15 years ago and truth be told it is an shadow of itself when it comes to the P4 P industry.

I was in Crazy House the other night, and frankly I really don't get it. I found all the gals there to be fairly meh looking for the most part.

I moved to BKK for the great P4 P scene and because you could live a 5 star life on a 3 star budget. Both are no longer reasons to move here. I stay for other reasons now and I imagine Elh does as well. Some of us have developed friendships, relationships, etc. Hell, this is home now. I think if you lived here you view of BKK would change rather quickly.

If you are choosing a purely mongering destination I think there are better places. Jakarta is still a gem if you are willing to put up with the difficulty of getting around. The PI if you can handle the very third world nature of everything there. I would really like to check out Medellin.[/QUOTE]G, A few months ago you posted an excellent and very descriptive report about how great things where when you first arrived in the big mango. You wrote about Thermae in its hey day and Sukhumvit FL's in depth. It was a great post. I first visited BKK '89. The city seemed to me to have an exotic feel or maybe that was just my initial reaction and nothing more. Patpong was going strong then. Cowboy was nothing more that a couple of expat bars with girls. I didn't go there that first visit. I took my first Thai girl from a place called Queens Castle on Patpong 1. And no, she was not a ladyboy. 555. I remember the layout of Queens Castle quite well with a runway stage down the middle of the bar and 30 or so girls dancing / shuffling on stage to the Rolling Stones "Honky Tonk Woman" and other great rock songs. There were only 2 girls whose looks got my attention that 1st night; a dark spinner with a great tight little body and a lighter skinned damsel wearing eye glasses. I chose the eye glass girl. I guess I prefeered the innocent look she was projecting over the sultry look of the spinner. Ha Ha! In any case I had a great time that night and became permanently hooked on Thai girls and Asian girls in general from then on.

But even back in '89 there were guys saying that LOS was so much better 15 years earlier in the early '70's when there was no differential between LT and ST. It was all "Up to You" time and girls would stay for a couple hours, a night, a week, or however long a guy wanted them to stay. Prices in the early '70's were rock bottom, there was no HIV, nobody wore a condom unless they wanted to, girls were all natural and had lots of pubic hair, Thai Stick was readily available. Yada yada yada, I could keep going for a long time on this. That was the early '70's and I am sure it was a gas!

Now I started my journeys in Mexico and Central America in the early '70's. I drove down to Mexico with my best friend. We had an ounce of Afghani Hash and about a hundred ludes stashed away in the car. Jesus, did we have a good time! When we finally hit Costa Rica 4 months later, it was like we made it to the promised land. We camped out on breathtaking deserted beaches in Gunacaste and hooked up with beautiful Ticas, working girls in San Jose nightclubs and Go Go's. My favorite spot was a place called Colt 45. It was a Go Go with about 6 girls dancing topless on stage at a time. Being young, brash, confident Gringos which we were; the girls loved us! I never paid for sex back then. We would just make plans to meet the girls after clsoing around the corner from their bar and then spend the night with them. Does it get better than that? NO! But on my next trip to Latin America, which lasted for 2 friggin' years, I started in San Jose and then worked my way south. I spent 6 months that trip in Columbia and back in '76 Columbia was pretty wild. I had a black Cartagena GF by the name of Mercedes. She was a living doll. I met her in a club called Las Vegas. She was a working girl obviously, but again I never paid for her attentions. She never asked for money.

I could go on and on with amazing stories from those golden days in Latin America. But as I got older I began to make serious money back in the USA. By the time I entered my third decade I got tired of the freebie approach and found it much easier and convenient to just Pay 4 Play and that is the way its been for me ever since. But I will never forget those amazing trips of my early twenties. They were the best.

Fast forward. The year is now 2016. I haven't visited Latin America since 2008. I now prefer Asia and Asian girls almost exclusively. But that is just me and my book on SA is closed. Now some guys still love Brazil or Columbia. Some guys love Africa. I don't get the later, but its all fine with me if that's what someone likes. But, I don't see the point in comparing BKK today with BKK 15 years ago or BKK 30 years ago because as much as we hold certain memories sacred, and as much as we would like to go back to relive those great times; it can't be done.

Now you and some other BM's paint a really depressing picture of today's BKK in comparison to BKK of 15 years ago. I disagree with you because I still have a really great time in BKK. If I didn't I would say so and I would spend more time and more of my hard earned money somewhere else. For example, on my last trip, I spent 4 weeks in BKK, 2 weeks in Jakarta, 2 weeks in Manila, and 4 nights in Macau. I had a great time and met quality girls everywhere. I wish I could post pictures of my girls on the public forum, but some pencil dick will take them and show the girls, so I can't do it. My #1 & #2 girls were from Makati. #3 was Jakarta. My #4, #5, #6 was BKK. #7, #8 were Macau. #9 was Jakarta. #10, #11, &#12 was BKK. So while my BKK girls did not take home the Gold or Silver this year, they still did very well and made me very happy happy. The competition this year was very stiff. Let me be specific:

BKK Massage parlors:

Boss. I reunited with a girl I met in Oct 2015. She is kind of sexy. Face 5. 5. Body 6. 5. Attitude and service: 9. 2 - fucking amazing. A really passionate girl. No tricks or porn star stuff. Just really good passionate love making.

Addicts. A new girl. She smiled at me in the line up. She is sexy cute. Face 6. Body 6. 5. Attitude and service: 9. 2 - super passionate like the Boss girl. Initially she was acting shy while taking off her top. I asked her what was wrong and she said she had small breasts. I told her I loved small breasts, She took off her bra revealing beautiful little "A" cups with pink nipples. I said they were beautiful as I cupped them and then kissed them. After that the girl was all mine!

Nataree. Cute sexy light skinned girl. Face 6. 2. Body 6. 5. Attitude and service 6. 5. There was nothing wrong with this session. BBBJ included. But competition was stiff this spring and I never returned to Nataree.

Mango. I hooked up with the sexiest girl they have on the roster. That is not saying much, but she is a great girl and definitely knows how to please a man. Face 5. 7. Body 6. 3. Attitude and service 8. I took her 2 times in the shop and I time at my hotel. I thoroughly enjoyed my sessions with her.

La Belle. I was a little disappointed with the lineup this time around, but I selected a sexy girl from the DdDDD category I believe. Face 6. 2. Body 7. 3. Attitude and Service 6. The session was good, but not memorable. I would have to look at my notes and the photos to remember this girl properly. All I remember off the top of my head is that she wore undies with a puma imprint covering her pussy.

The Lord. I took 3 girls from the Lord. 2 or the 3 were stellar IMHO. They were my #5 & #7 girls of the trip. I repeated with both of them twice. The 3rd Lord girl was good looking, but we had no real chemistry and so the session was ok, but not memorable.

Lord Girl #1 - sexy, pretty. 25. She gave me really good white glove service. I remember laying back in the hot tub drinking Heineken on the rocks while she blew me. Face 6. 9. Body 7. 2. Service and Attitude - 8. 5.

Lord Girl #2 - high class looking and well coiffed. I love this girl! She gave me the best blow job of the trip. No I take that back, She gave me 4 of the best BJ's of this trip in one session no less, including the last BJ where she pulled me up from where I was kneeling around her ass eating her out and rimming her. She pulled me up from there so my knees were straddling her face and then she blew me that 4th time. I have been visiting BKK for a long time, but I can't recall ever sitting on a Thai girls's face before. What a great session this was. Face 7. Body 6. 5 (She had silly cones which I failed to detect while she was sitting in the fishbowl. She said she hated them) Attitude and Service 9 - one of my best girls of the trip - #5 to be exact. Very memorable.

BKK Go Go.

Crazy House. I took 4 girls from CH this trip. Two of them made #4 and #6 on my list. All of my CH girls were real nice and treated me like I was a king. Girl # 4 - I shagged her many times solo and also shagged her and her sister in a threesome twice. I also shagged #4 and #6 (number 4's BFF) twice in a threesome as well. The two nights I spent with #4 & #6 were one of the highlights of my trip.

CH girl #4 - Face - 7. Body 7. 8. Attitude and Service 9. We have been in Line communication nearly every other day since I returned home. She says she loves me. I tell her I love her too. And I do. 5555!

CH girl #6 - Face 7. 2. Body 7. 8. Attitude and Service 9. I am looking forward to seeing #6 again. I want to shag her solo as well as in a threesome. While we were all together #6 showed interest in #4, her BFF by massaging #4's breasts and clit. This was a great great night!

I will stop here because I think I made my point which is I am still having really great times in BKK. In fact, this last trip was one of my best in spite of the fact that, yeah, things might have been better in some ways 15 to 30 years ago.

So my question to you is: where has it gotten better in the last 15 years? My answer is Nowhere!

ChangPIng has been completely shut by the authorities.

Phnom Penh is a pale shadow of its former greatness. 2009 before the bar raids was the last great year of PP. I still recall 4 or 5 days after I left Cambodia in the spring of 2009 when I was walking down Sukhumvit feeling blue and completely bummed out because I was not in Phom Penh anymore!

Macau is under threat. Authorities there have closed the Lisboa Racetrack which was an amazing FL attraction. The saunas are feeling threatened and exposed. I was there in April. There is a new payment protocol in place in some of the highest quality bordellos which requires the customer to pay the girl her cut of the fee in the room and then pay the balance owed to the sauna afterwards. The hope is this new form of payment will give the Saunas defensible deniability of any P4P occurring on their property. My concern is how long will the authorities continue to allow saunas to operate. It is anybody's guess. Meanwhile sauna prices are soaring through the roof. I was quoted an obscene 3000 mop ($385) and 3500 mop ($449) for 90 minutes with Chinese and Korean super models respectively in Rio Sauna. The girls were hot, amazingly hot and were the best looking girls I have ever seen in any P4 P situation anywhere. They were definitely TV actress or makeup advertising quality girls. An altercation occurred between myself and the host over the form of payment and I left the sauna very pissed off without doing one of the Chinese super models. I still have mixed emotions about that.

Manila (Makati) has a fairly robust nightlife, but it is more expensive than Cowboy or Nana. Barfines on Burgos are equal to what the girls expect so for example at Kojax, currently the hottest bar on Burgos, the barfine is 3000 p plus the girl wants 3000 p which comes to a grand total of 6000 p ($128) for ST. I should note here that my 2 favorite girls on my last two Asian trips work in Bottoms Bar. They like me, I like them, and we have a special long running relationship, so the girls come straight to my hotel bypassing the barfine structure and thus saving me something like $1500 on my last visit. I suppose that if I showed up on their doorstep in Manila without any money the girls would shag me once in a while for free, but I am sure the frequency of service would decline rapidly and the girls would tell me more and more how they need to go to work and make money. 555. I ain't 22 no more.

Jakarta is still great, My #3 girl of this trip works in Malioboro Lounge and she is HOT! BUT top notch Jakarta girls are as expensive or more expensive than their counterparts in top end BKK soapies or Go Go's. And prices have shot up 50% in Jakarta in the last 5 years. #3 is a 2,000,000 idr ($152) in house girl. When you add in Tequilas and such, a night in Malioboro Lounge or Malio Club is VERY expensive. They only sell double shots of Tequilas and boy can you get hammered fast on double Tequilas. I always have a great time at Malioboro. Fortunately, like my Makati girls, #3 began visiting me at my hotel on Sunday, her day off and then started coming to see me after work at 1 am on week nights. I gave her 1,000,000 idr ($76) plus tips or around $90 for her visits which is still a lot, but it was worth it to me. She is a stunner (8) in looks and the sex is a 9. I can't wait to see her again. I love a 20 year old Muslim girl! LOL.

I hope I have given a little perspective to the conversation concerning BKK. In the last year and half I have been fortunate to visit South East Asia 3 times spending roughly 6 months on the road here (50% in LOS, 25% in Jakarta, 25% in Manila). Of the three cities, BKK is still the best overall IMHO. Nowhere can you find nearly everything you want in such close proximity. The cuisine is excellent and safe to eat nearly anywhere. Violence against foreigners is very low. And there is an oversupply of hotel and apartments making BKK still one of the the most economical cities to visit or live in Asia. And the girls: there are still plenty of good ones. Believe me Plenty! Maybe less than in days gone by, maybe not, but how many girls does a punter need to have a rollicking good time? I found the supply of sexy, friendly Thai working girls bountiful.

So stay thirsty friends. In the immortal words of Sting, "When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around."

[QUOTE=NattyBumpo;1901800] So my question to you is: where has it gotten better in the last 15 years? My answer is Nowhere![/QUOTE]Agree with you here. Our hobby is under threat everywhere. And yes, we need to enjoy what we have. Older age is looking bleak for our genitals. I am sure BKK was better in 89 than in 99.

[QUOTE=Kumbu;1901781]. . . <SNIP>
My take on this is that despite you telling her that you are not in it for the long haul, she has decided that you will be hers for the long haul. Kind of like that last BJ you got: you said no, she said yes, and when she did you, she told you that she wins. So she may be trying to strong arm you into falling for her. So I would just keep mentioning, in a nice and respectful kind of way, that you are not interested in commitments. And of course, make sure you keep paying her. Heck, the money you save on laundry might make the whole thing worthwhile.[/QUOTE]With all due respect to Kumbu and Wolven, you need to assess your own situation.

For example, are you single yourself and actually, subconsciously, looking for a partner? If so, then it looks like you might have struck gold.

OTOH, if you cannot be serious with her or you are adamant about staying single, then you are playing with her emotions if you lead her on and if she really is as "nice" as you say then you are going to kick her in the teeth (in a manner of speaking) when you disappear. Your post and your questions shows that you're a decent guy so you need to think this through carefully.

There will be guys on the board who will advise you to exploit her as much as you can and then run away. I am not one of those guys, and I suspect you're not either.

Keep us posted.

[QUOTE=NattyBumpo;1901405]With all due respect, I have a short question for EihTooms; why are you still hanging out in BKK? You paint a very dismal picture of this still amazing city full of sexy fun girls. If things where as bad for me in BKK as they seem to be for you vis-a-vis Thai working girls, I would be out of here and partying it up in Manila, AC, Jakarta, Phnom, or SA before I could say poon tang and I would never look back. Yet you are still here. WHY?[/QUOTE]Natty, I live in Bangkok / Thailand because it is a great place to live relatively cheaply; very comfortable, better than most infrastructure, tons of fine food options, remarkably pleasant year 'round weather, friendly people, beautiful women, and I am getting well laid and blown more often by more lovely young girls than most other times in my life, more often than any other man of my age (or younger, for that matter) that I know.

Where are you getting the "very dismal" bit? Because I think my and perhaps others' chances of getting well laid and blown from a hot go-go dancer is logically greater than by a by-the-numbers massage shop girl? That is an odd conclusion, I must say.

However, frankly, if my sexual encounters in Thailand were as non real GFE, non real PSE, and as expensive (re Lady Drinks, some soapy massage rates, escort services, for example) as I have read in reports from many on these kinds of sites, I probably would seriously consider moving to a better place for my retirement.

[QUOTE=RedKilt;1901856] you need to assess your own situation.[/QUOTE]You guys have confused me further more.

I agree with you I need to assess the situation myself, but I need help, hence the post here.

I am single now after a long emotionally (and financially) draining relationship. With my past experience, I have kinda decided, that long term relationships are not for me.

I am the last person who would want to exploit anyone off anything. One reason why I prefer to monger in LOS (where girls are in it on their own free will) as against India (where a majority are pushed into the trade and exploited).

Now, I have given this gal enough hints, tried paying for her (I now realize that she has made sure that I have not spent a single penny on her except the condo, which was booked double anyway). Tried slipping a few 1000 baht in her wallet before she left, but when I came back after dropping her found the money back in my bag. So yeah, can't figure this one out.

What's bothering me is that even though she is not my GF, the uncomfortable feeling I have is exactly why I want to be away from relationships!

I have told her I'm not a one woman guy and "butterfly man", she just says. OK. Wants to meet up every week. I'm hoping it's just a sex thing for her, but from my past experience with women, I'm sure I am wrong.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1901416]I moved to BKK for the great P4 P scene and because you could live a 5 star life on a 3 star budget. Both are no longer reasons to move here. I stay for other reasons now and I imagine Elh does as well. Some of us have developed friendships, relationships, etc. Hell, this is home now. I think if you lived here you view of BKK would change rather quickly.
[/QUOTE]Goatscrot, I believe in many ways the definition of what passes for a "5 star life" in Bangkok vs what I recall about it 15-20 years ago has greatly improved. I might even go so far as to say most increases in P4 P costs beyond ordinary cost of living increases are justified because of those improvements. In fact, I didn't even like Bangkok all that much when I was taking multiple annual vacations here 15-20 years ago. I landed at the airport, maybe spent one night here and high tailed it to Pattaya ASAP. But today I love it. 15-20 years ago traffic was impossible, there was no useful BTS or MRT, laws had not been passed to require autos, buses, trucks and motorbikes to emit less poisonous exhaust and generate far less deafening engine noise. If anything, aside from the P4 P scene, I found the place excruciatingly boring after a night or two. Restaurants that served good western breakfasts or anything other than Thai food were few and far between.

Also, I don't honestly recall my experiences with the P4 P girls being all that much better either as long as I recognize their game today is to play at the abysmally low demand modern customer levels and, consequently, I make sure they understand upfront that I won't be accepting something that meager.

Bangkok is now a wonderful, modern, easily managed, ridiculously comfortable and accommodating major, world class City. I am not surprised P4 P girls available in such a luxurious upscale city would ask for or expect (even taking inflation into account) more than they did when the place was, imo, barely tolerable. As one would expect to pay more in Manhattan than in Wichita.

The place is just better overall. And that costs more. However, one can still find areas in and around Bangkok to live, eat and exist very similar to the way retirees did 15-20 years ago. If you want. Although I don't know why anyone would want to. You could find a small studio apartment with spotty aircon, no internet, miles from the nearest BTS or MRT station, very few if any western style restaurants, maybe no mega-mall or movie theater complex within practical reach and cover all of it for less than, oh, $800-$900 USD per month. Factoring in inflation, that might even be a bit cheaper than you could pull it off 15-20 years ago. You might even find a bar or two nearby where some truly lovely, even beautiful young ladies are willing to treat you to the same quality of sexual pleasure you enjoyed back in the old days for less than 1,000 baht per. But in that neighborhood you aren't going to get the best of the goodies that modern Bangkok has to offer today.

I'm not trying to dismiss your criticisms of Bangkok and the P4 P scene today vs yesteryear. I agree with many of them. I'm just pointing out that one really and truly could replicate pretty much the same lifestyle limitations presented by Bangkok 15-20 years ago, when it was cheaper, and pay those kinds of prices, inflation-adjusted, all over again to have them. If you wanted. But me? I don't want to! lol. So I pay more and live, eat and play where it is many, many times more fun, interesting and comfortable than I could enjoy anywhere in the city 15-20 years ago.

[QUOTE=RedKilt;1901856]With all due respect to Kumbu and Wolven, you need to assess your own situation.

For example, are you single yourself and actually, subconsciously, looking for a partner? If so, then it looks like you might have struck gold.

OTOH, if you cannot be serious with her or you are adamant about staying single, then you are playing with her emotions if you lead her on and if she really is as "nice" as you say then you are going to kick her in the teeth (in a manner of speaking) when you disappear. Your post and your questions shows that you're a decent guy so you need to think this through carefully.

There will be guys on the board who will advise you to exploit her as much as you can and then run away. I am not one of those guys, and I suspect you're not either.

Keep us posted.[/QUOTE]Perhaps I did not express myself clearly. Honesty is of course a given. Never lead her on and hide your real intentions. If you confess to her to be somewhat of a "butterfly" and have no intentions of really committing yourself, then it is up to her to continue or not. But that you alrready made clear in your posting.

If you enjoy the extras a real GF can provide you, there is no reason to worry. Just make sure your conscience remains clear.