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[QUOTE=Socker;1932963]Hey,
There are 2 post by Syzy that I was commenting on the BKK forum and thought he had great advice on dealing w / the BKK BGs. I wanted to express my appreciation. In general the last few pages have been very good intel and method of operation on BKK.
Cheers.[/QUOTE]Yes, sorry about the confusion. It appears the post #s (#36 XXX or whatever) update slower or later than the posts themselves. Exiting the site and re-entering was enough to put them in sync again.
[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1933282] Most are still sub-50 USD screws at best. Skill set, looks, eroticism, just really not there. I'm with Tooms on this one. [/QUOTE]Yes, Goatscrot, based on your posts I can see how it would be very difficult to find current young P4 P Thai girls up for the kind of partying you like to do. Seems it is very vocal and aggressive in ways I rarely if ever witness with attractive girls on the scene these days.
But for those of us of a more mundane, prosaic nature who are merely looking for something, say, much better than the usual "lick around the edges, at best, then cap on and proceed" kind of service (I honestly don't think anyone needs advice or guidance to get that level of service as it is virtually anywhere and everywhere in the Thai P4 P scene. Just show up and point to a girl whose looks appeal to you), Thailand is still a great place to get it. I'm talking about Real GFE / BBFS and / or BBBJ+CIM.
If a fairly decent behaving and pulled together farang is willing to apply a minimum of Game to it beyond simply sitting politely and waiting for it to land in his lap, he will be steeped in that level of partying and sex play from young and attractive Thai girls virtually all over the place; from the P4 P scene with go-go girls, beer bar girls, FLs, and, naturally, BJ Bar girls to the non P4 P Thai girls found on dating sites and girls you just meet while shopping or out for a walk.
I wasn't here 10 years ago, the timeframe against which you have said today's action compares so unfavorably, so I can't speak to the comparison really. But I was here 20 years ago. And I have to say I am getting more of that kind of action from younger and better looking Thai girls today than I did back then.
[QUOTE=Syzygies;1933021]Why do you say "lucked out"? Perhaps you really mean "good luck"? Part timers are the best. Even girls who worked there for years but hardly show up for work can be great, or especially when they just returned from holidays or studies or even just before the period comes. Its possible to find horny girls, if you get lucky. LOL.
I got very lucky with my selected Billboard girl. I think she tried Bangkok Bunnies or similar downstairs for a short while then moved to Billboard. Only a few months. Not really jaded as yet for purposes of take out. I don't know how many days a week she works.[/QUOTE]Yes I got lucky with that one, so the good kind then. Makes me want to head towards the shy / reserved ones now. Whereas I used to avoid them just thinking they would be star fish, or that they were "not into this line of work. " and that the session would be similar to their stand-offish appearance on stage.
[QUOTE=ParkVille;1933375]Yes I got lucky with that one, so the good kind then. Makes me want to head towards the shy / reserved ones now. Whereas I used to avoid them just thinking they would be star fish, or that they were "not into this line of work. " and that the session would be similar to their stand-offish appearance on stage.[/QUOTE]Its a common misconception or Myth that a shy girl will be bad. Praow is a very extrovert sexy girl new in Crazy House that will play up to guys, and yet she doesn't like BJ, doesn't like kissing, doesn't like DATY, at least that was my experience when tried her long ago at Doll House. A starfish. Some other timid shy girl can be so pleased that some guy really likes her, she can turn very wildly passionate on the bed and be really into everything GFE. I say avoid the girls that are clearly just putting on an act rather than being themselves.
A girl does not look at you or give you the wink or wave frantically at you. She may be sad, maybe stressed by money shortage, she maybe just shy. It's only a bad sign if she is trying to latch on to other guys but ignoring you. If she does not look anyone in the eye, and just stairs into space, no problem. Some girls do not have the raunchy hooker mindset, especially if relatively new to the game, and totally sober. Interact a little. Give her a reason to concentrate on you. If she is still totally disinterested, okay You can change your mind. I always give girls a chance to show some interest. I give them a signal to show I am interested and then spend some time with them to see if they react positively, or get too aggressive or too arrogant, or too disinterested or what. Chemistry takes a little time to build.
Some girls get the totally wrong impression of me as well, sitting there in bar unsmiling, totally ignoring any girl that approaches. Not allowing anyone to massage me, etc. They probably think this guy cannot lighten up. Very wrong. They can find I am very different if I am interested in the girl, and have a conversation and joke around a bit. Not an Ogre after all.
Plenty of girls are drinking alcohol to try to loosen up and get more raunchy. It is not a natural way for all Thai girls to be very provocative or showing off themselves in a sleazy way.
In Billboard, a girl last night was very drunk and making a lot of tongue licking actions towards me, trying to climb onto my lap. She was not my girl of choice, so I was not specially impressed by her persistence or raunchiness. She was not ugly by any means. Not just any girl will do. I just wanted her to go away. I was talking to a more conservative girl, only two weeks in the bargirl job.
My motto is, don't let the girl choose me, could be a rip-off girl or a girl who cons but does not deliver, I choose the one I like. I like girls to be themselves and not put on a fake act.
For guys looking for a pornstar performance, that maybe different. Then you don't want an overly shy girl, most likely. It also depends on the style of the guy. I an a doer more-so than a receiver of services. I like girls that can have good time "going with the flow", rather than fully directing all the procedings. Less assertive girls may work better for me.
[QUOTE=EihTooms;1933374]Yes, Goatscrot, based on your posts I can see how it would be very difficult to find current young P4 P Thai girls up for the kind of partying you like to do. Seems it is very vocal and aggressive in ways I rarely if ever witness with attractive girls on the scene these days.
But for those of us of a more mundane, prosaic nature who are merely looking for something, say, much better than the usual "lick around the edges, at best, then cap on and proceed" kind of service (I honestly don't think anyone needs advice or guidance to get that level of service as it is virtually anywhere and everywhere in the Thai P4 P scene. Just show up and point to a girl whose looks appeal to you), Thailand is still a great place to get it. I'm talking about Real GFE / BBFS and / or BBBJ+CIM.
If a fairly decent behaving and pulled together farang is willing to apply a minimum of Game to it beyond simply sitting politely and waiting for it to land in his lap, he will be steeped in that level of partying and sex play from young and attractive Thai girls virtually all over the place; from the P4 P scene with go-go girls, beer bar girls, FLs, and, naturally, BJ Bar girls to the non P4 P Thai girls found on dating sites and girls you just meet while shopping or out for a walk.
I wasn't here 10 years ago, the timeframe against which you have said today's action compares so unfavorably, so I can't speak to the comparison really. But I was here 20 years ago. And I have to say I am getting more of that kind of action from younger and better looking Thai girls today than I did back then.[/QUOTE]Actually the gals were not really any better back then performance wise, just more plentiful, and cheaper. And at that price ( 1k baht + 500 BF Nana, 400 baht CWBY) you got the type of service that you described above. And yes, that is still available, but at about three to four times the price. Now, as I have said many times, if the game was raised, then I would have no problem paying more. Sadly, only the prices have gone up not the level of service.
[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1933282]The longer I am here the less and less interested I am in "bargirl" conversation and interaction. Oilies work pretty well for me, but the talent has certainly slipped. And, yes, I could spend 3 k, 4 k, 10 k on these gals, but to me they are just not worth it. Most are still sub-50 USD screws at best. Skill set, looks, eroticism, just really not there.[/QUOTE]This is a good summary of the conclusion many have come to.
IMO it is the [I]double hit[/I] of higher prices and lower looks / standards. I have little problem with higher prices if the looks / standards remained high enough. I could live with [I]*some*[/I] lower looks / standards if the price remained reasonable. But when they both move against the punter the value for money (VFM) takes a considerable turn. Or enough of a turn to make you stop and think.
IMO it is less lamenting the scene for what it used to be and more like recognizing the current situation for what it is: still good, can be great, just not slam dunk compelling.
SL.
[QUOTE=Sunlover2;1933433]This is a good summary of the conclusion many have come to.
IMO it is the [I]double hit[/I] of higher prices and lower looks / standards. I have little problem with higher prices if the looks / standards remained high enough. I could live with [I]*some*[/I] lower looks / standards if the price remained reasonable. But when they both move against the punter the value for money (VFM) takes a considerable turn. Or enough of a turn to make you stop and think.
IMO it is less lamenting the scene for what it used to be and more like recognizing the current situation for what it is: still good, can be great, just not slam dunk compelling.
SL.[/QUOTE]Very well stated. 15 years ago Thailand was one of the best destinations when it came to VFM for P4 P. Now, not so much. Where would I venture to now? Well, Colombia peaks my interest as does Venezuela. Ven because of the poor economy and it's quite dangerous at the present. Those two factors add up to fun and good value in the P4 P scene. Keeps most folks away. That's the time to go.
[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1933444]Very well stated. 15 years ago Thailand was one of the best destinations when it came to VFM for P4 P. Now, not so much. Where would I venture to now? Well, Colombia peaks my interest as does Venezuela. Ven because of the poor economy and it's quite dangerous at the present. Those two factors add up to fun and good value in the P4 P scene. Keeps most folks away. That's the time to go.[/QUOTE]The price has gone up approx. By a factor of 10 over 25 years. That is approx. 9.6% compound inflation rate per year (for those who understand exponential growth maths). A little bit high yes, but not astronomical.
Has the overall standard for Thai looks as they are born, got worse? I don't think so. Maybe even improved slightly. However clearly beautiful girls have more opportunities than 25 years ago to get employment other than P4 P. The other factors spoiling the average looks are modern junk food making ladies fat at earlier age, and surgeries actually hindering their looks rather than enhancing them so much. (0% of nose and tit jobs are actually making girls look worse, in my view.
Very beautiful girls do not last so long in P4 P before someone takes them away from it, or they were only temporary to finance their studies. Has this situation changed much over the years? I don't know.
Clearly the internet web sites, and chat apps enhances the ability of a girl to work P4 P as independent, and not be tied done to a bar or MP with working conditions she may not like.
The overall profile of the customer base has changed a lot. Its not just frugal Farang expats any more. This has allowed the hot girls to get away with pricing themselves higher, where the ordinary girls still have to be cheap enough to get customers. There seem to be a lot less Farangs in total spending money on P4 P. So the market is bad.
It is still possible to get a good looking girl for a good price, but in the Thai oriented discos or clubs / bars, or out in not so touristy towns. Not easy in the Farang / Japanese dominated areas in Bangkok. Isn't a move to Pattaya going to solve much of the cost problem, or for even cheaper, a move to Phnom Penh?
A walk from Sukhumvit Soi 3 to Soi 13 at 1. 30 AM, I looked at the sidewalk girls and the cart bars. I was surprised to find the whole area dominated firstly by black girls, between 30 to 40 of them, and secondly by ladyboys, with real girls coming a distant 3rd by person count.
Does anyone understand how and why there are so many black girls these days? What has changed? Are they all illegal?
I thought only about 10% of the black girls looked good enough to be doable, but then my ratio for the real Thai girls might be very similar, or maybe even fewer of Thai girls in this area would interest me (5 to 10% of Thermae girls really appeal).
I gathered the black girls used to be concentrated in Soi 3 but now have moved to Sukumvit, where rather few are in Soi 4. In may be related to the presence of the Cart Bars in Sukhumvit.
Do these black girls typically go for a good price and are they good fucks? The one half black girl, Michelle from Tanzania/Zanzibar, I tried this year was a complete dud. Overall, outside Thailand, I prefer black girls from South America or West Indies region, however had a very good pretty Ghana girl last year.
[QUOTE=Syzygies;1933816]The price has gone up approx. By a factor of 10 over 25 years. That is approx. 9.6% compound inflation rate per year (for those who understand exponential growth maths). A little bit high yes, but not astronomical.
Has the overall standard for Thai looks as they are born, got worse? I don't think so. Maybe even improved slightly. However clearly beautiful girls have more opportunities than 25 years ago to get employment other than P4 P. The other factors spoiling the average looks are modern junk food making ladies fat at earlier age, and surgeries actually hindering their looks rather than enhancing them so much. (0% of nose and tit jobs are actually making girls look worse, in my view.
Very beautiful girls do not last so long in P4 P before someone takes them away from it, or they were only temporary to finance their studies. Has this situation changed much over the years? I don't know.
Clearly the internet web sites, and chat apps enhances the ability of a girl to work P4 P as independent, and not be tied done to a bar or MP with working conditions she may not like.
The overall profile of the customer base has changed a lot. Its not just frugal Farang expats any more. This has allowed the hot girls to get away with pricing themselves higher, where the ordinary girls still have to be cheap enough to get customers. There seem to be a lot less Farangs in total spending money on P4 P. So the market is bad.
It is still possible to get a good looking girl for a good price, but in the Thai oriented discos or clubs / bars, or out in not so touristy towns. Not easy in the Farang / Japanese dominated areas in Bangkok. Isn't a move to Pattaya going to solve much of the cost problem, or for even cheaper, a move to Phnom Penh?[/QUOTE]Most things go up in price, but I would say 10% a year is quite a high rate of inflation. A Toyota Camry is more expensive then it was 10 years ago, but it also has a lot better feature set and provides you with a better driving experience for that money. The same cannot be said about P4 P gals in BKK.
[QUOTE=Syzygies;1933816]The price has gone up approx. By a factor of 10 over 25 years.
[/QUOTE]Not being picky S. But my first visit was in 1991 exactly 25 years ago and I cannot recall FS on offer at an oilie for 150 Baht I. E. 10% of the current 1500 fee. If memory serves me correctly more like a 1000 baht maybe a couple hundred less depending on shop and lady in question. It might be interesting to check with some of the old timers perhaps at Annie's to see what they were getting back then.
[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1933846]Most things go up in price, but I would say 10% a year is quite a high rate of inflation. A Toyota Camry is more expensive then it was 10 years ago, but it also has a lot better feature set and provides you with a better driving experience for that money. The same cannot be said about P4 P gals in BKK.[/QUOTE]A girl is not a product that can be improved with lots of new feature sets, unless its a ladyboy.
[QUOTE=Syzygies;1934277]A girl is not a product that can be improved with lots of new feature sets, unless its a ladyboy.[/QUOTE]You are buying a service. Want more money? Up your game. Learn some new tricks. Dress sexy. Learn to be seductive.
[QUOTE=Syzygies;1933816]Has the overall standard for Thai looks as they are born, got worse? I don't think so. [/QUOTE]There are fewer around. Birth rate has gone down, and if you look at the population pyramid, the 20-30 segment has shrunk significantly. Couple this with rising salaries and you get a situation where any decent-looking Thai girl can get a Thai boyfriend who makes enough money to survive, so you get almost no decent girls going into prostitution, only the leftovers who, for whatever reason, don't have the ambition at all to exit the hooker lifestyle. This has direct impact on attitudes.
[QUOTE=Syzygies;1933820]
Do these black girls typically go for a good price and are they good fucks? The one half black girl, Michelle from Tanzania/Zanzibar, I tried this year was a complete dud. Overall, outside Thailand, I prefer black girls from South America or West Indies region, however had a very good pretty Ghana girl last year.[/QUOTE]I usually give the black girls a wide berth. In my limited experience with them anywhere, they talk non-stop about (more) money while trying to postpone the action until you agree to up the ante. When they find out you're not, its all mechanical and boring. Speaking purely from statistics, I am sure one can get lucky.
Personally I stick with the thai girls. Sure can be hit & miss, but again statistically I have a lot better experience. And nearly no thai girl would lower herself to ask for more money after you have made a deal with them. Many will even say "up to you" when you ask the price. The same way a guy in a street shop will go to extreme lengths to make sure you get your 20 bath change on a 380 bath deal.