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[QUOTE=MartinFlevo;2775125]As a wise man told me over 20 years ago "You don't pick a working girl, she picks you".
So my word of advice? Don't focus that much on a chick YOU like. But try the once that also like you (as a person).[/QUOTE]I agree with this because her liking you is the first step to having good service in the room. There are enough appealing girls who eyeball me from the stage that I don't even think about the others.
The sandal wearing guys who walk in packs of 4-7 and sit and the gogos sharing one bottled water call the shots? Hmmm. Well glad there is still LK Metro. And I agree. Letting the ladies choose you makes a BBFS CIP session much more likely.
[QUOTE=MartinFlevo;2775125]Without having to read all the topics of the last 200 pages. It's quite simple. The standard price for LT was around 2 K before covid. And yes a girls way of say "no" was always to just quote a high price (hoping the guy would decline).
HOWEVER. The demographics of guys have changed a LOT since 2017. Where (we) farang where the majority its now a lot of indian / arabs who are calling the shots in especially WS. These guys (along with the asians) are not as "cheap charlie" as we farang. They don't care if they are quotes 4 K or even 10 k.
Why would they go with a 40+ year old farang for 2 K if they can also just wait and hope for someone else who pays more? Don't forget the salaries from gogobars have increased a LOT. So they not depend on ST / LT as much as precovid anyway.
So if a chick gets a lot of the non-farang mongers there is a fair change she won't lower her quote. However if she likes you price won't be a showstopper anyway. I got plenty of action for 2 K from agogos even in 2022. And yes. Even from pinup there is chick who wanted to go for just 2 K longtime.
As a wise man told me over 20 years ago "You don't pick a working girl, she picks you".
So my word of advice? Don't focus that much on a chick YOU like. But try the once that also like you (as a person).[/QUOTE]Walking Street is Agogos.
I was there a few months ago when Thailand was pushing hard for Indians. For the life of me Pinups and every other Agogo was not teeming with Indian s,. Hencely hence how could they be calling the shots. Several cases they weren't even allowed inside. Hahaha.
[QUOTE=Gonova;2775019]I have heard many people recommend TF and Tinder for when we visit Pattaya. I am planning on getting a Thai Sim card when I land which means a new number. Should I wait till I set that up before creating an account on either? How do you guys coordinate travelling, a new number, and signing up for premium services?
Do you recommend Tinder premium? TF premium? Any other apps?[/QUOTE]Never use your real number when mongering. Wait till you get to the country and buy a sim there and ditch it when you leave. If you want to get a burner phone in the US so you can talk to some girls before you leave, you can do that. All it takes is one girl to try and extort you.
[QUOTE=MartinFlevo;2775125]...
As a wise man told me over 20 years ago "You don't pick a working girl, she picks you".
So my word of advice? Don't focus that much on a chick YOU like. But try the once that also like you (as a person).[/QUOTE]That's what I could or would never do as a monger. That is also why there is so much misunderstanding when success rates in some venues are discussed. Sitting down and settling for one of the girls who approaches you is one thing. Having your pick of the hottest girls is a different ballgame.
[QUOTE=XXL;2775230]That's what I could or would never do as a monger. That is also why there is so much misunderstanding when success rates in some venues are discussed. Sitting down and settling for one of the girls who approaches you is one thing. Having your pick of the hottest girls is a different ballgame.[/QUOTE]When it comes to the hottest girls, you can always eventually pay them enough to fuck them.
But you can never pay them enough to give you an organic, fully engaged, great time.
That part of the deal, of a session, if it comes at all, comes for free.
It's they who decide to give it, or withhold it, based on how they perceive you, like you, feel about you, etc.
To highlight that, a this week true story.
In Phuket I've been slowly chasing, interacting more like, with a "for me", irresistible cutie for probably six months now.
I'd see her, chat openly, buy her drinks, tip her, have sensual fun, but never sealed the deal to take her home.
She always made more than enough between salary, lady drinks and tips, to rarely need or want to go with customers.
She told me also, that for a price she would, and that that price was high.
It was clearly higher than I was wanting to pay as a local, and not a one week millionaire tourist.
I will admit I came close to deciding to buy her many a time, but thankfully I never crossed that line.
It in a way that endeared her to me, had her looking at me differently, not as just a pay to fuck her person.
This week I saw her again, she was busy already, so I sat and drank with a mate.
Then another girl, a hot 21 yo SYT, ex coyote dancer, I knew and had had great times with came into the bar and made a beeline for me.
She was all over me, getting very hot and heavy, and I was moving slowly towards taking her home for the night.
From there it got interesting, my cutie became free, unbeknownst to me, and also made a beeline to me.
She came to me with jealous eyes, so now I had two, one each side, trying to outdo each other and "win" me.
Let's just say I used it nicely to my advantage, and ended up bedding the cutie that night in a great engaged session.
As said above, that night she was the one that crossed over the line, she chose me, and I had the windfall of that.
At a price point a few hours later, one that had never been discussed, which was low end and totally acceptable to me.
[QUOTE=Gonova;2775019]I have heard many people recommend TF and Tinder for when we visit Pattaya. I am planning on getting a Thai Sim card when I land which means a new number. Should I wait till I set that up before creating an account on either? How do you guys coordinate travelling, a new number, and signing up for premium services?
Do you recommend Tinder premium? TF premium? Any other apps?[/QUOTE]You can create accounts while you're still at home. You have to sign in with a user name and password. It's internet based, so it has nothing to do with your sim card or phone number.
I can recommend TF Premium. The free version has too many limitations, IMHO. I don't have experience with Tinder.
Another app that you definitely need in Thailand is Line, because at least 99% of the girls are using it to stay in touch.
[QUOTE=DevSagar;2774913]I did go to a club with my 2 European colleagues and 2 from India. We had just gone out at 12.30 am to chill and enjoy wherein took a table for 25 K THB along with a bottle of Black Label Gold reserve and a bottle of vodka. [/QUOTE]25 K THB? I guess that should have been 2.5 K?
[QUOTE=MartinFlevo;2775125]
As a wise man told me over 20 years ago "You don't pick a working girl, she picks you".[/QUOTE]Unfortunately the last time this happened to me is also 20 years ago, when I was still a hansum young man.
Sorry Sir, you do not get private tables in a lounge kind of setting with sofa and private service in 2. 5 k THB with those kind of clubs like Jannat.
I know it is very high as I would not have done it if alone but got tagged along. Couldn't say no to my European colleagues.
Still rue it.
Regards.
[QUOTE=Mogwai;2775253]25 K THB? I guess that should have been 2.5 K?[/QUOTE]
I am back in Pattaya. According to the eminent members of this forum, what would be a fun place to hang out during New Year's eve?
Allow me to clarify that this payment included the cost of 2 bottles mentioned in my post and a few tid bits along with the liquor.
It was divided among-st all members.
Also, I am not at all proud of my this expense.
Regards.
[QUOTE=Mogwai;2775253]25 K THB? I guess that should have been 2.5 K?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=AxelHeyst;2774449]Monger rule #13: Always agree on the price before the session begins[/QUOTE]Agree, but disagree. For me, [B]THAT[/B] is rule #3:
1. Agree on menu, including services, number of shots, etc.
2. Duration, as in LT / ST, and, more specific, what time will she leave.
3. Price, with a pay [B]AFTER[/B] tagline.
Do all that [B]BEFORE[/B] leaving the bar, club, venue, street location, whatever. That's for the first time. If / when she joins the 11 Bravo pitching rotation, no need to bring it up again. With some that have been on the [I]team[/I] for a long time, I know what others are now getting, I will give an unsolicited raise, few and far between, but it has happened. If I hear "good business tonight", I just say good luck, and there's an open slot on the rotation. "Regular" works both ways, she has a steady income, I have someone I don't have to start from zero with.
Now, pay after only works if you do. If she's a starfish, well, now I know. I still pay the agreed upon amount, just never repeat. If she changes the menu, say BBBJ becomes CBJ, no CIM, or no morning wakeup, I still pay with a remark, never repeat. [B]MY[/B] only exception is if she turns an agreed LT into a ST. In that case, then I pay [B]MY[/B] ST rate. This has worked for me for decades. On occasion, I'll forget one, two, sometimes even all 3 of MY rules. Sometimes it works, more often, not, and I have to relearn the lessons again.
I'm just curious, [B]Axel Heyst[/B], what are your first 12 rules; I'm always willing to learn.
[QUOTE=MadDin19;2774421]I've never negotiated with a lady. And I never will do.[/QUOTE]As above, I don't need to negotiate with someone I've pulled before. But I never hesitate to negotiate. NOW, I've RTFF, UTFSE, and made use of the valuable info here to know beforehand what the going rates are. If my offer is accepted, off we go. If her offer is reasonable, off we go. If her offer is high, I'll make a fair counter-offer, not trying for the floor (used to do that but quickly changed as why waste [I]entertainment[/I] time over some miniscule amount? My TIME is also worth something, more than $14 (500 baht, 50 dhs, etc.)). I always base my offer on what the going rate is for her [I]class[/I] (soloist or chorus), with [I]adjustments[/I] with what her experience is worth to me that night. I've NEVER worried about what others are paying, the ONLY thing important to me is if it's a good deal for ME (just selfish that way). Sure, I've heard OTT prices. Fine with me, 1) I didn't pay, and 2) happy for the girl that she had a windfall, might keep her in the game longer (best I heard was in DXB, a superstar I knew quoted 700 for ST; she was grinning ear to ear when she returned, he'd paid her in USD, not DHS).
It just removes one of HER concerns so she can relax and have some fun. How many here would take a contract with no compensation agreed to beforehand? If so, have I got some jobs for you [S]...[/S].
[QUOTE=HorseTrader;2774500]I understand your point about not negotiating, but I'm surprised by your words "If a lady tells me a price...." If? Are you also saying that you sometimes do the deed without agreeing to price in advance? That would seem reckless to me.
Him: "Here is your 1000 baht."
Her: "My price is 3000 baht."
Him: "Usual price in this area is 1000 baht."
Her: She storms out the room and says "I'll let you talk to my friend."
There is enough uncertainty in these transactions that I wouldn't want to add any more.[/QUOTE]Agree 100%. I once had a disagreement with someone I'd pulled several times before, everything working fine. However, when she cut LT to ST because her roommate didn't have the key to the room (translation: "hey, I've got a couple of fish on the line, you need to get back to the bar so we can both reel them in", I simply paid her my ST rate. She was NOT happy, and literally, NEVER spoke to me again in the bar. Fine; she was nice, but NOT THAT nice.
[QUOTE=SirLancelot;2774562]Girls quoting higher than 1000 is not an insult to you, or even dishonesty on the girl's part, it's just part of the game. [s]...[/s] What they initially quote is their best-case scenario, which only the very gullible will accept.[/QUOTE]Again, agreed; the ole cliche, "It never hurts to ask". I used to enjoy telling a girl it was my FIRST time in-country, I'd just arrived that morning. She'd quote an OTT price, I'd hesitate, then sprinkle in the conversation some hints that perhaps I wasn't a newbie. Fun to watch the realization dawning. Like you said elsewhere, it's all part of the game. I never took it as an insult, and neither did she (the general she).
[QUOTE=MadDin19;2774986]Next to me was an US guy who was negotiating with a girl. She was very young and pretty, but her English was very poor. He wanted her to go with him but she didn't look very happy.
Then he negotiated with the Mamasan. First he bid 2,000 then 2,500 then 3,000. The girl didn't want. Then he left.
20 minutes later she was sitting outside the bar with me and we were playing four in the row. An hour later she left with me. I wasn't talking about money. Not with the girl and not with the Mamasan.
Now my question:
Why did she go with me without knowing what I was giving her?
The Answer:
In most cases, your behavior is more important than the size of your wallet. But many of you are running around Pattaya like at a cattle market. The American negotiated with the Mamasan as if she were a cattle. The girl realized that.
I don't know how many LT I had from the beer bars. Maybe a few hundred. But I've never, never, ever talked about money in a bar. Not with the girls and not with the Mamasan. Never. Pattaya is not like a *****house in Europe.[/QUOTE]Myself, I've NEVER discussed price with a mamasan or a controlling agent. It's always direct, and it's always done casually. Even have some fun with it. With all due respect, sitting in a bar, playing 4 in row is NOT my idea of a good time. Chatting with a girl, joking with a girl, working through language barriers is a good time. Maybe you can do that over a game, my work was solving puzzles and when I'm off work, I'm not into puzzles, games, etc. I agree that your behavior, showing respect, having fun is all important. It's a business, but like any business, there are some customers you enjoy working with, and others that are a PITA. Who can blame anyone for avoiding the PITA's?
[QUOTE=AxelHeyst;2775060]So true Sir Lancelot. It is not a negotiation when a diner ask his waiter in a restaurant how much the special of the day is. He is ascertaining what the price of a meal is before he decides to order it. Likewise, it is very important to establish what the price is for a girl's service before you agree to it unless you don't care what the price is. But we know this is not the position of the OP. He really cares what the price is, and he thinks he has found a way to always pay what he wants to pay regardless of what the girl wants for her services.[/QUOTE]Brilliant analogy.
[QUOTE=AxelHeyst;2775060]What our OP is suggesting is the wrong way of picking up girls and it will eventually lead him to some very unpleasant outcomes. Even if he gets away with it most of the time, he will earn a bad reputation with all the girls at the bars where he practices this sort of behavior and burning your bridges at every bar you frequent is never a good idea or proper way to monger.[/QUOTE]You are so right, girls exchange info. As I mentioned before, my decent offer to a girl, because a compatriot had told her I had paid her that for ST, not LT, she thought I was being disrespectful by offering her that for LT. I explained that THAT girl had turned LT into ST and I had paid in advance (lesson #3's tagline disregarded to my regret). She eventually believed me, and accepted, but it was a LOT of unnecessary work. You do get known, either as a player or a mark, and how much you pay. In one location, my nickname with the FL's was how much I paid. My experience, anyway.
If you are in Pattaya long time, negotiating the details of performance is not necessary. If the lady underperforms, you just don't hire her again, and forget about her. So, maybe 1 or 2 out of 10 are worthless in the room.
Likewise, I never tell the lady what to do. It is entirely up to her. This approach doesn't work so well in High Season, when every lady is getting fucked every day by customers, but normally, the ladies like a little Farang sex when business is slow.
[QUOTE=GentileBear;2775162]The sandal wearing guys who walk in packs of 4-7 and sit and the gogos sharing one bottled water call the shots? Hmmm. Well glad there is still LK Metro.[/QUOTE]I'd like to help you guys understand the 'Indian' guys better.
At mods. Please do move this post to a more relevant section if you think irrelevant.
So, we all know the behavior by many of the Indian guys that make us all cringe. There are three things that come together to make the typical Indian dude you see do what he does.
1) Exposure: None of these guys have been exposed to the niceties of life as we possibly have. This includes proper social behavior, etiquette, courtesy, being chivalrous, etc. They just don't know what is expected of them and so do what they would do normally at home. Most of these guys are from the lower middle economic class and the only way they will learn is by experience. I have seen similar (of varying degrees) behavior with the Chinese, Mexicans, Africans, or even the Balkans.
2) Experience: This is likely the first trip overseas for the bulk of these guys. For some, possibly their first flight! They don't understand different cuisines, find it hard to adapt quickly, and resort to falling back on what they know. Which is the reason why you'll find them eating Indian food, sticking to their groups, following the beaten path set either by their one friend who has visited Thailand earlier, or one of the many Indian YouTubers who break things down for them. They just don't have the confidence because of their lack of experience.
3) Economy: Indians have had it tough for many decades before the economic boom that started in 1991. Many of these folks have just about saved enough money for this Thailand trip and need to get the best bang for their buck. They would rather have some money left at the end of this trip for shopping / girls than blow their budget on Day 2! They are budget travelers, which is the reason why they would be sharing rooms, food, etc.
The biggest reason for their bad behavior with the girls is that they haven't interacted with many women romantically. The bar culture prevalent across the world hasn't picked up in India (yet). There are exceptions but in principle, their romantic escapades have been limited to crushes in school / college and maybe an office romance (though I suspect that the bulk of the visitors from India are from a business background).
Now, none of these are excuses for them and this post isn't intended to be that. I am Indian myself and cringe seeing Indian tourists anywhere in the world! But I also understand and appreciate that I have been lucky over the years getting opportunities to have lived overseas, and travel / monger in over 50 countries. I have had my share of learning but I haven't faced discrimination anywhere in the world. Scratch that. There were a couple Nana Gogos that I wasn't let into. LOL.
My recommendation to you is to ignore the buggers, let them learn from their own mistakes and become better versions of what they were. While we get back to the more important topic of girls in Pattaya / Thailand.
Cheers / Pulse.