Bangkok Reports

I started to pick up this notion that Coyotes get different salaries per month compared to gogo girls, may be expected to sell more drinks, etc. It appears they usually or sometimes, do not actually work directly for the owner of the bar. There maybe some sort of contract arrangement. Where a large numbers of so called Coyotes works for some boss lady, and that boss supplies them to bars. The coyotes may get assigned to different bars and move from place to place.

I got a hint of this before tonight and more info tonight, even though was very confusing.

I went in this bar called formerly Jail Birdz and was told it is being renamed to Butterflys. It was sold to Billboard owners not that long ago. Line up was so so a few reasonable looking girls.

A gogo girl called Ni was talking to me. I know her from Doll House several years ago. Mamasan Lek also comes from Doll House. I am trying to pick the Coyote girls out based on outfit. Wrong. By dancing style. Also wrong. Ni tells me that gogo girls have a 2 digit number and that Coyotes have a 3 digit number. Unrelated to whether the girls is wearing cut off jean shorts, or a bikini, or girls in the suds bath area may be topless but still "Coyotes" since they have a 3 digit number. Crazy, right? Apparently gogo girls work for the bar mamasan, but Coyote girls have a mama that is outside of the bar who provides them to the bar, not provided by a pimp, or perhaps the "mama" is a pimp of sorts.

I never saw topless girls supposed to be Coyotes till today, I believe. Barfines for Coyotes and Gogo girls are the same in this bar, but prices girls set maybe different. Who knows? I did not do a survey of fuck prices. Some of the Coyotes are ugly, or have a bad figure, and almost none of them can dance proper Coyote style. Most girls are doing disco like dancing to crappy disco like "music".

So it seems so many girls are classifying themselves higher as a Coyote but they seem to be total unqualified to do so. It's all a bit of a wank, in my view. They are all just plain gogo girls in my mind, and sometimes extra plain. I did not actually want to BF any of the so called Coyotes so its a bit academic. One or two girls appealed for either the face or for the body, but was very difficult to find the "full package".

This bar was far less fun for me than the tiny Toy Bar at Cowboy. It is Billboard's poor sister bar. I recommend guys to try Twisters or Billboard for a better line up.

Before going to the bar, I watched some Arsenal football in Stumble Inn. I made the mistake or order a burger there with extra Blue Cheese, mushrooms, and fried Onions. The burger was terrible. A lot more expensive than the Cowboy Burger stand and no where near as good. The beef patty was a bit too thick but well over cooked and crumbly. The cheese, onions and Mushrooms all lacked flavour. The mushrooms are those silly tasteless straw mushrooms. Pointless. Champignons or Portobello would be better. Even the ham / bacon had no taste. Totally no understanding of western food. Burger was stacked very high making it impractical to eat without disintegrating it first. Salad was soso but covered in Mayo which I don't like. So I suggest don't order western food at Stumble Inn. Waste of money. I have had good burgers elsewhere but not at Nana.

[QUOTE=MichaelSamuel;1972251]...So what did I learn? At the first bar I was way too generous early trying to get a vibe from the girl early on. I feel like I made the right decisions after I started to get the info however. In my opinion any girl only willing to go ST to the Nana rooms (especially at closing) when my 4 start hotel is a 2 min walk is looking to try to set a record on THB per hour earning. At mandarin I just was too quick to pull the trigger and again mistakenly assumed there was some reality to the girls having already been in the mourning period downturn. The downturn in general didn't seem to affect girls whatsoever as was my experience earlier in the week as well...[/QUOTE]Thanks for the excellent reports, full of details, an enjoyable read for sure!

[QUOTE=MichaelSamuel;1972251]So what did I learn? At the first bar I was way too generous early trying to get a vibe from the girl early on. I feel like I made the right decisions after I started to get the info however. In my opinion any girl only willing to go ST to the Nana rooms (especially at closing) when my 4 start hotel is a 2 min walk is looking to try to set a record on THB per hour earning. At mandarin I just was too quick to pull the trigger and again mistakenly assumed there was some reality to the girls having already been in the mourning period downturn. The downturn in general didn't seem to affect girls whatsoever as was my experience earlier in the week as well.
[/QUOTE]After many many years at it, I have learned not to pull the trigger very fast with bargirls, or accept the risk if you do. I prefer to meet girls more than once now before pulling the trigger, if possible. If the girl is drop dead gorgeous, being slow to pull the trigger is a sure way to miss out, so I have to vary the rules. LOL The Thermae is a bad place for me, because the best looking girls get taken very quickly and there is little time to sit to get to know them. In a gogo bar it is much more acceptable to spend time sitting with a girl to get to know her attitudes, although we are expected to buy her drinks.

I had a great fuck with a cheaper free lancer today. The first time with her, the kissing was quite weak but she was overall okay I have cultivated her though, and now the third booking, the kissing was greatly improved. We take it slower now and she was horny today with no fuck for a while before tonight.

[QUOTE=Syzygies;1972358]Would be interesting if anyone knows the PB price for ST. I would consider going there with a hot girl just for the mirrors. I had forgotten those. I seem slight difficulty to hail a taxi from the PB at certain times in bad weather, but a very long time ago.[/QUOTE]Might be outdated info since the last time I used PB Hotel was about 2 1/2 years ago. But I remember being impressed that an all night stay there was quoted at only 800 baht. As for Short Time, I vaguely recall that it was a tiny bit more than other ST hotels in that area at 300-350 baht (World Inn then being one of them) but better value, so the PB was probably no more than 400 baht for ST. It wasn't as much as 500 baht back then. Since the ST rate at most of the other hotels around there hasen't changed all that much since then, I would assume neither has the PB. But, again, it has been more than a couple of years.

[QUOTE=*****man;1972420]First stop was Som's Haven. This one had the most girls with the greatest variety of ages, from early 20's to way past retirement age (for their occupation). Bizarrely though the girls all acted like complete bitches. A BJ bar is the last place you'd expect attitudes like that. I stood outside the bar to take a look at the girls and there were 3 who were my spec, young and not fat. But as I made eye contact they just gave me this 'what the fuck are you staring at?' look which was totally off-putting. So this old lady comes up to me from behind and invites me into the bar. She was so old I thought she must be the mamasan and I would go in and discuss my requirements with her. But when I got in she asked if I wanted a drink. I replied that I didn't want a drink, I wanted a girl. At that she decided to have a hissy fit, asking why I'd agreed to go in the bar with her if I didn't want her to 'take care of me'. So I went outside again to make my choice and was planning to choose any of those 3 girls who showed any interest at all, maybe a smile or a few words. But all I got was bitchy looks, one even swigging her whisky and turning away from me. WTF? That bar has obviously turned to shit through poor management so I moved on.[/QUOTE]Yes, it is a shame that owner / mamasan Som has slacked off on her originally fine management of her place. I used to go there all the time and rarely had less than an excellent experience. Som was always present and mindful of making sure I got well taken care of by the best of the new girls and so on. She would exchange a few words in Thai (that I didn't understand at the time, but might now) with the girl as we entered the door to walk up the steps that seemed to set them up for a very agreeable, hassle-free, no nonsense attitude in the 1,700 baht ST room I usually opted for.

But the few times I have stopped in there over the past several months, Som has not been there most of the time and when she was not there, like you, I was not inspired to take a girl. Got that strange negative vibe you mentioned. Sounds like she wasn't there the night you stopped in, too. And even when she has been there, she seems not to know or care if the girl all over me would be right for my style, which she knows very well, or not and therefore offers no indication that I would be making a wise choice or should try this other one instead. Too often more recently at Som's Haven, it has not been a wise choice for me. But I still prefer the place over other such venues so will return and try again I suppose.

[QUOTE=Syzygies;1972453]Who. Man,

LOL. There seems to be an attitude at some places that looks do not matter and only skills count when chosing a service provider. So why would you need to check them out in detail? 556.[/QUOTE]LOL. Yes, that does seem to be a prevailing attitude. At least, an attitude that is stated in conversation whether or not it actually prevails at choosing time. But I have never understood that attitude. In fact, in terms of facial attractiveness, it is more important for me to choose a "pretty" girl for blowjob than for FS where as I can understand choosing a girl with a better body for FS. After all, a girl's face wouldn't make much difference when in doggie or reverse cowgirl position. Actually, it might not even make much difference when in missionary position if it is one of those Thai girls who must turn her face and head away while you are working it rather than look you in the eyes or, wonder of wonders, be kissing you on the lips during. But with a blowjob you are going to be looking at her face way more than at her body and likely more than during many position for FS, no?

[QUOTE=Syzygies;1972358]Would be interesting if anyone knows the PB price for ST. I would consider going there with a hot girl just for the mirrors. I had forgotten those. I seem slight difficulty to hail a taxi from the PB at certain times in bad weather, but a very long time ago.[/QUOTE]PB was 360. Been a few months since I have been there.

[QUOTE=JimmyBoy99;1969607]After School was the BJ bar you were looking for. Also, you dated one "not pretty" woman and fucked a "not pretty" woman and a "mature" woman. Why go to all the trouble to come to Thailand and not fuck young, pretty girls?[/QUOTE]Who said I didn't. That report was only one night on my trip. This one FL happened to be only modestly attractive, and for me Thailand is about lots more things than fucking the prettiest girls. After all, there are ample pretty girls in Colombia, which is a easier, cheaper plane ride with an even better exchange rate (as well as bland food). But, I will look forward to you posting photos of the beauties that you strictly dated in the Land of Smiles. You are going to post those photos of all the Thai women you have slept with, right?

[QUOTE=Syzygies;1972561]I started to pick up this notion that Coyotes get different salaries per month compared to gogo girls, may be expected to sell more drinks, etc. It appears they usually or sometimes, do not actually work directly for the owner of the bar. There maybe some sort of contract arrangement. Where a large numbers of so called Coyotes works for some boss lady, and that boss supplies them to bars. The coyotes may get assigned to different bars and move from place to place.

I got a hint of this before tonight and more info tonight, even though was very confusing.

I went in this bar called formerly Jail Birdz and was told it is being renamed to Butterflys. It was sold to Billboard owners not that long ago. Line up was so so a few reasonable looking girls.

A gogo girl called Ni was talking to me. I know her from Doll House several years ago. Mamasan Lek also comes from Doll House. I am trying to pick the Coyote girls out based on outfit. Wrong. By dancing style. Also wrong. Ni tells me that gogo girls have a 2 digit number and that Coyotes have a 3 digit number. Unrelated to whether the girls is wearing cut off jean shorts, or a bikini, or girls in the suds bath area may be topless but still "Coyotes" since they have a 3 digit number. Crazy, right? Apparently gogo girls work for the bar mamasan, but Coyote girls have a mama that is outside of the bar who provides them to the bar, not provided by a pimp, or perhaps the "mama" is a pimp of sorts.

I never saw topless girls supposed to be Coyotes till today, I believe. Barfines for Coyotes and Gogo girls are the same in this bar, but prices girls set maybe different. Who knows? I did not do a survey of fuck prices. Some of the Coyotes are ugly, or have a bad figure, and almost none of them can dance proper Coyote style. Most girls are doing disco like dancing to crappy disco like "music".

So it seems so many girls are classifying themselves higher as a Coyote but they seem to be total unqualified to do so. It's all a bit of a wank, in my view. They are all just plain gogo girls in my mind, and sometimes extra plain. I did not actually want to BF any of the so called Coyotes so its a bit academic. One or two girls appealed for either the face or for the body, but was very difficult to find the "full package".[/QUOTE]Of course, the system with the bar hiring the agency (then the agency, not the bar, hiring and supplying the Coyotes) has been going on for quite some time. But the confusing part about what you discovered was the supposed agency Coyotes at Jail Birdz / Butterflies don't have a higher barfine rate than the other girls at 700/1000 baht or whatever the regular barfine rate is there. That is odd. Usually the agency girls / Coyotes' barfine rate is substantially higher than that of the go-go bar's regular girls. Like 3,000 baht vs 700 baht, as it is at Cowboy 2 Bar on Soi Cowboy. But that is perhaps not the case with the Nana Plaza Coyote system which is where Jail Birdz / Butterflies is located.

I have instead heard Coyote /"Special" girl barfine rates quoted at 1,500 baht vs 700 baht in a few Nana Plaza bars and, actually, I am not even sure if the girls sometimes referred to as "Special" girls in places like the two Mandarin bars are agency girls or girls hired directly by the bar, hence the hesitation to call them "Coyotes" rather than "Special" girls.

But on your point about the girls at Jail Birdz / Butterflies classifying themselves as "Coyotes" while offering no apparent advantage over their regular girls in youth, looks, dancing ability or whatever, that might instead feed into my growing assessment for what constitutes a "Special" (Coyote?) girl in some Nana Plaza bars vs what constitutes a Coyote in some Soi Cowboy bars.

My experience over the past couple of years has been that "Special" girls in Nana Plaza bars, the ones with the 3-digit badge number or designated as "Special" by the bar in that they charge 1,500 baht barfine to take one out vs the regular 700 baht barfine rate, offer a more hassle-free, Real GFE or are potentially up for whatever might be considered "special" service from a go-go girl, if asked about it prior to deciding to barfine (also A+? Threesomes?). For my money, that trumps dancing ability. IMO, you can keep your extra hot stage dancing, I don't need it, it does nothing for me in the room. But for "special" service as agreed upon in the bar with far less risk of an unpleasant surprise Jekyll and Hyde transformation in my room? Then I'm in for the extra 800 baht on the barfine.

[QUOTE=Uffizi;1970197]Hi Axiata,

Thank you for an informative report. Too bad with Thermae I'm into the Japanese look myself so I too regret their bias towards non-Asians.

Any tips on how to close the deal at Mixx? I'm not very comfortable in clubs so I normally avoid them, but I have had trouble finding nice girls for overnight stays in Bangkok so I am willing to give it a go.

You left out info on prices, was that on purpose?

Thanks again for tips.[/QUOTE]I don't think there is such a bias against non-Asians. I walked out of there with a girl while the remainder of the Asian male patrons just sat there. And the girls waiting around were just delighted, like a girl doesn't happen very often. It was like Richard Gere taking Debra Winger out of of the factory in "An Officer and a Gentleman. " Quite simply, Thermae is like a nightly meeting for failed prostitutes, or "Anonymous". These girls are just wasting their time. And your time too. But, the bar makes money in the process and don't even need to hire wait staff. Its a cash cow for the bar owners, and that is why it is there. Its not there because its a good option for mongers. For me, it was an extra convenient way to take a girl up to my room.

The thing is that Japanese have obviously paid too much in the past, and the girls in Thermae are probably chasing some fantasy of getting a lot and doing very little. I was talking to this girl I took upstairs when I heard a Japanese patron next to me ask another girl in plain English "How much for two hours?" She replied, "Two hours? 6 thousand for two hours". He didn't bite. I told the girl, why did he ask for two hours, he is only good for three minutes, and you know what she did? She laughed and nodded her head. She admitted to me what we heard about the Japanese is true. And the other girls have heard that, as well. They are chasing the dream, whereas the one that went with me was making a sale. Just stand outside at closing time and there will be lots of more motivated sellers. Lots of cute girl in the same getup you are thinking about, but also beware of Ladyboys mixed in among them.

[QUOTE=Adrena;1969671]I think the lists of importance that we've all been posting are quite interesting.

I wonder how some of the girls make money, but these lists help me understand. Different tastes and whatnot.

My single biggest turn off is negotiation. I don't know how people do it. If a girl quotes me an unusually high price, I am instantly turned-off; it's almost a feeling of disgust. However, some of you handle it like studs. Mongers are a diverse set of individuals.[/QUOTE]Thank you! Yes, we are a diverse set of individuals. And we have different tastes and different needs. Some guys find black women unattractive, while others will take on the dangers of Africa to wallow in them. Some guys (like myself) don't like white girls too much, while others live for the palest women from Eastern Europe. Lets enjoy our differences and not try and foist our ideals and objectives on others.

Negotiation? Yes, its a art, but I'm from a sales background and I'm cool with it. What slightly annoys me is those who won't negotiate when the price is too high. But, I don't think that hard about it. Those who won't negotiate, are usually the ones who are the worst value, or have the least to offer. I remember on my first night, when a young hottie on Soi 11, tried to pimp off her mousy girlfriend for 2000 baht, for one measly hour. I know the going rate on the street is 1000, and I offered 1000 to see what she said. They looked at other, and grinned and I think they wanted to bust out laughing. They thought it was silly. So did I. She was a 500 baht girl in my mind. With the streets flooded with motivated sellers, later that evening, I don't their business partnership was a very lucrative one. Unrealistic business objectives are never successful anywhere in the world.

So, just stand your grand when you negotiate. Be Donald Trump for that one moment. It worked for me at Thermae (a place I will likely never visit again). Know what you will pay, and know what they are worth. And they will respect you for that if they are ready to do business. Even when you try to negotiate them down a bit, the girl who knows what she is worth will stand her ground on her price. And if its a fair price, there is nothing wrong with paying it. If the goods are delivered, then you both walk away happy.

Hello esteemed members of the forum,

I would firstly like to thank all of you for all your contributions over the years, I started my mongering career 3 years ago in Bangkok at a tender age of 17 when visiting with friends. Over the years have got great memories and experiences but always stuck with oilies and soapies. The African beauties near Nana all the way to Soi 15 intrigues me and have always wanted to try but quite scared to. After reading the forum quite a bit, couldn't find much about them, Anyone could weigh in? Expected cost for LT and safety concerns? Thank you so much kind people, many reports on the way once I finish my upcoming one week trip. Live long and prosper.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;1972597]Of course, the system with the bar hiring the agency (then the agency, not the bar, hiring and supplying the Coyotes) has been going on for quite some time. But the confusing part about what you discovered was the supposed agency Coyotes at Jail Birdz / Butterflies don't have a higher barfine rate than the other girls at 700/1000 baht or whatever the regular barfine rate is there. That is odd. Usually the agency girls / Coyotes' barfine rate is substantially higher than that of the go-go bar's regular girls. Like 3,000 baht vs 700 baht, as it is at Cowboy 2 Bar on Soi Cowboy. But that is perhaps not the case with the Nana Plaza Coyote system which is where Jail Birdz / Butterflies is located.

I have instead heard Coyote /"Special" girl barfine rates quoted at 1,500 baht vs 700 baht in a few Nana Plaza bars and, actually, I am not even sure if the girls sometimes referred to as "Special" girls in places like the two Mandarin bars are agency girls or girls hired directly by the bar, hence the hesitation to call them "Coyotes" rather than "Special" girls.

But on your point about the girls at Jail Birdz / Butterflies classifying themselves as "Coyotes" while offering no apparent advantage over their regular girls in youth, looks, dancing ability or whatever, that might instead feed into my growing assessment for what constitutes a "Special" (Coyote?) girl in some Nana Plaza bars vs what constitutes a Coyote in some Soi Cowboy bars.

Still it was very surprising to have topless "Coyote" girls.

My experience over the past couple of years has been that "Special" girls in Nana Plaza bars, the ones with the 3-digit badge number or designated as "Special" by the bar in that they charge 1,500 baht barfine to take one out vs the regular 700 baht barfine rate, offer a more hassle-free, Real GFE or are potentially up for whatever might be considered "special" service from a go-go girl, if asked about it prior to deciding to barfine (also A+? Threesomes?). For my money, that trumps dancing ability. IMO, you can keep your extra hot stage dancing, I don't need it, it does nothing for me in the room. But for "special" service as agreed upon in the bar with far less risk of an unpleasant surprise Jekyll and Hyde transformation in my room? Then I'm in for the extra 800 baht on the barfine.[/QUOTE]It occurs to me that it is well possible that some things I was told are not actually correct, especially about the barfine being the same for Coyotes and Gogo girls at Jail Birdz / Butterflies. I recall now that when I asked the question, the girl spoke to another member of staff, probably to ask the same question of someone else. Maybe they both did not really know the correct answer, even though thee gogo girl said she worked there 1 year.

Sometimes we get fed mis-information.

Thanks. I am headed to BKK next week and was wondering if my old girlfriend Anne is still at L* I only did BJ last couple of times but know she is up for more action upstairs. Anyone know if she has a nice little Bush? I like that but don't mind if girl is cleanshaven w / o stubb. Any tips on providers at * and KL. Thanks.

[QUOTE=*****man;1972420]I checked out the three BJ bars Som's Haven, Loli's and Kasalong early this evening but didn't partake.

First stop was Som's Haven. This one had the most girls with the greatest variety of ages, from early 20's to way past retirement age (for their occupation). Bizarrely though the girls all acted like complete bitches. A BJ bar is the last place you'd expect attitudes like that. I stood outside the bar to take a look at the girls and there were 3 who were my spec, young and not fat. But as I made eye contact they just gave me this 'what the fuck are you staring at?' look which was totally off-putting. So this old lady comes up to me from behind and invites me into the bar. She was so old I thought she must be the mamasan and I would go in and discuss my requirements with her. But when I got in she asked if I wanted a drink. I replied that I didn't want a drink, I wanted a girl. At that she decided to have a hissy fit, asking why I'd agreed to go in the bar with her if I didn't want her to 'take care of me'. So I went outside again to make my choice and was planning to choose any of those 3 girls who showed any interest at all, maybe a smile or a few words. But all I got was bitchy looks, one even swigging her whisky and turning away from me. WTF? That bar has obviously turned to shit through poor management so I moved on.

Next stop was Loli's. The selection here was quite good, better than last time I looked when there were only fatties. Some girls were early or mid 20's and were quite doable. Importantly, they were also polite and did their best to entice me, but I saw nothing special so moved on to Kasalong. I think this bar suffers from being over-hyped in online reviews. I've read reviews of 'stunning' young girls with amazing service but the one time I'd been before the girl was a disappointment both in terms of looks and service. The girls here were equal to Loli's in terms of looks but there were few of them. They also had pleasant attitudes and tried to entice me in but again I didn't see anything special so decided to give it a miss.

I'm not a big fan of these places anyway. The girls beg for a tip so in reality you're paying 1000 baht for one hole and 30 minutes. In a PSE oily you get 3 holes in an hour for 1900 which seems to be much better value. If you're desperate for a 1000 baht blow job though, Loli's and Kasalong are perfectly good choices but avoid Som's Haven.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=RoamingViking;1972654]Thanks. I am headed to BKK next week and was wondering if my old girlfriend Anne is still at L* I only did BJ last couple of times but know she is up for more action upstairs. Anyone know if she has a nice little Bush? I like that but don't mind if girl is cleanshaven w / o stubb. Any tips on providers at * and KL. Thanks.[/QUOTE]Last time I visited a few months ago, I was told that Anne was not there anymore. Miss her cute Ass. I have not checked if she returned.