[QUOTE=Bkkdog;1973275]I have paid my share of expensive rates in the past, and I'm a firm believer in you get what you pay for, but getting ripped off is a completely different story.[/QUOTE]Truer words have never been spoken!
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[QUOTE=Bkkdog;1973275]I have paid my share of expensive rates in the past, and I'm a firm believer in you get what you pay for, but getting ripped off is a completely different story.[/QUOTE]Truer words have never been spoken!
[QUOTE=Syzygies;1973157]It is wise to never pay freelancers in advance, as they could easily attempt to do a runner with the cash.[/QUOTE]Thanks for corroborating my intuition. I can't exactly explain why, but I just feel it would be wrong.
I don't mind paying upfront at Nataree (back in the days) or at Addict, but this is a completely different kettle of fish.
[QUOTE=Syzygies;1973165]I think one of the reasons for the discounted price, is that the bookings are for the extreme near future (max 4 hours out). These girls would otherwise not have a booking at all for the target timeslot most likely. Highly in demand girls may not need to go for a discounted price in order to increase their business activity levels. I have little doubt that girls agreeing to go from this system are also agreeing to make less for the booking than their normal charge, rather than miss out on money completely. The normal agency is likely forgoing something as well. Of course I have no clue what is the agency cut normally, but could be quite significant. Hardly surprising that some girls want to be independent.[/QUOTE]Interesting to note that when you go to the "smooci" girls' original agency's website and get that Live Chat pop up, there is a recommendation inside that pop up box to go to [URL]smooci.com[/URL] and book through that site instead. At least, that is the way it is at Pure Bangkok Escort and New Bangkok Escort, the two I happened to check. It is as though they want you to book through smooci and get the discount instead of through their own site and pay the rate listed there.
One of the girls my friend booked volunteered soon after meeting him that she normally goes for more but that her agency is offering a special for now, foregoing their cut of the fee (ha), and that is why the rate is lower, for whatever that story is worth.
[QUOTE=BananaBoi;1973170]Makes sense. Was thinking the prices are pretty decent and a couple of girls were close to above average Thermae quality, however, for 1 hour Thermae is still cheaper, you get to see them pre-photoshop, and you get to interact with the girls first before committing, either getting some food with them, buying them a drink, or just having a quick 2 minute talk while they are standing in their spot. I guess if your hotel was near Patpong or somewhere like that this would be a good option. Do BKK escorts all provide DFK and BBBJ?
Off topic, anyone have any updates on the Thaniya Road bars?[/QUOTE]Don't know if we have many Japanese that follow this forum, I do know of the odd Japanese guy in ISG outside of Thailand. Most Farangs won't know much obviously, unless party with Japanese guys. I have never been in there. When my Japanese buddies were here, they were mainly interested in Bacarra and the Thermae. Thermae is heaven for Japanese but quite ordinary for me so far, in the modern day. Many years ago got some awfully sweet girls from Thermae for LT bookings. Just hard to find girls good enough to repeat these days and hard to find a suitable all natural girl. Now if I could chat to them for a long time while they were nude first, would help greatly. LOL.
Girls go to Thermae for a reason. LOL Most of them prefer Asian guys. Only a small number of girls go there for Farangs. I expect that Thaniya girls will also greatly prefer Asian guys.
I am better of at bars where the girls really want Farangs.
I think you need to find yourself a Japanese buddy who knows Thaniya to be your guide. Don't be surprised if thai girls try some basic Japanese phrases on you. LOL
[QUOTE=EihTooms;1973322]Interesting to note that when you go to the "smooci" girls' original agency's website and get that Live Chat pop up, there is a recommendation inside that pop up box to go to [URL]smooci.com[/URL] and book through that site instead. At least, that is the way it is at Pure Bangkok Escort and New Bangkok Escort, the two I happened to check. It is as though they want you to book through smooci and get the discount instead of through their own site and pay the rate listed there.
One of the girls my friend booked volunteered soon after meeting him that she normally goes for more but that her agency is offering a special for now, foregoing their cut of the fee (ha), and that is why the rate is lower, for whatever that story is worth.[/QUOTE]I think that old non Smooci way takes more time and logistics to organise and Thai staff are notoriously slow and laborious about doing things. So if you want an urgent booking, it makes sense to suggest the smooci expedient way. Also they want you to think they are doing the right thing by you. Would look bad not to offer the cheaper alternative.
It could be that a quite small percentage of the agencies business is in the 4 hour out or less time frame. They may just not want to be hassled with the rushed bookings that Smooci can organise much better.
May also have something to do with the deal between Smooci and certain agencies. The Agencies still get to do all bookings more than 4 hours out, right. I am sure the girls using Smooci are supposed to benefit by getting more bookings than before, and filling in gaps in their schedule.
It would surprise but yes possible the girl still makes the same as before. I expect Agency cuts were large so if they forego most of it, it could make a big difference. Who knows how much Smooci needs to make per girl booked.
It is a mystery exactly how the Agency gets a benefit unless they still take some part of the money. Obviously Agencies are scared to lose business overall if they do not participate though.
I wonder what will happen when someone else creates a new even better function website than Smooci. Could a new website almost do away totally with all the cumbersome slow response agencies by providing very good functionality, with a mimimal human backing to handle customer questions, by transferring questions directly to the girls when not answerable by all the normal basic data. They could start by attracting all the freelance independent girls.
Will Smooci be handling independent freelance girls?
[QUOTE=Syzygies;1973157]It is wise to never pay freelancers in advance, as they could easily attempt to do a runner with the cash.[/QUOTE]I concur. I would have held out for either paying after or the compromise of putting the money on a table top as Eric Swiss did.
But I guess I am not as quick to assume it is rip off customers who are the great threat to that girl's income opportunities as some others are. I put credit for that on the rip off freelancers standing right next to that girl every night who are the reason you and I and others would not recommend anyone pay a freelancer upfront instead of afterwards. IMO, they are far more responsible for the better girls not making as much money as they could than the rare occasion where some dude discovers he has no money or he blatantly planned all along to get a free romp and bail out on his part of the agreement.
I don't want to see a girl go without food or rent because some guy ripped her off. But in the case of the kinds of freelancers Eric Swiss was posting about and what sparked this side discussion, they were banking more than a week's pay for about 2 hours of their time in a hotel room selling a product that as far as I know has never run out of supply after two hours of selling it. They can apparently get customers whenever they point to a guy and say, "Ok, Lucky, you're next", and there is always another two hours coming up with another week's pay in it for them. That they might on rare occasion find themselves giving it away for free seems to me a small hit on their income stream compared with the financial damage that is done to them by their fellow freelancers delivering lousy service not even remotely close to what is agreed upon, driving good customers away and on to other options with every rip off.
And, as far as I am concerned, I wholeheartedly endorse guys NOT paying anything close to what they fully agreed to pay if the girl rips them off and doesn't deliver what she agreed upon as well. It is entirely possible that is what sparked a so-called rip off customer bailing out on some or all of what he agreed to pay them more often than the girls worrying and complaining about it would ever let on.
[QUOTE=Syzygies;1973331]I think that old non Smooci way takes more time and logistics to organise and Thai staff are notoriously slow and laborious about doing things. So if you want an urgent booking, it makes sense to suggest the smooci expedient way. Also they want you to think they are doing the right thing by you. Would look bad not to offer the cheaper alternative.
It could be that a quite small percentage of the agencies business is in the 4 hour out or less time frame. They may just not want to be hassled with the rushed bookings that Smooci can organise much better.
May also have something to do with the deal between Smooci and certain agencies. The Agencies still get to do all bookings more than 4 hours out, right. I am sure the girls using Smooci are supposed to benefit by getting more bookings than before, and filling in gaps in their schedule.
It would surprise but yes possible the girl still makes the same as before. I expect Agency cuts were large so if they forego most of it, it could make a big difference. Who knows how much Smooci needs to make per girl booked.
It is a mystery exactly how the Agency gets a benefit unless they still take some part of the money. Obviously Agencies are scared to lose business overall if they do not participate though.
I wonder what will happen when someone else creates a new even better function website than Smooci. Could a new website almost do away totally with all the cumbersome slow response agencies by providing very good functionality, with a mimimal human backing to handle customer questions, by transferring questions directly to the girls when not answerable by all the normal basic data. They could start by attracting all the freelance independent girls.
Will Smooci be handling independent freelance girls?[/QUOTE]I think they are producing what in sales is known as "an urgency to buy" with that 4 hours out booking limit. "Limited time only! "Greatest Sale Ever! "Hurry while they last!" kind of thing. But in this case they are enticing potential escort customers with a discount if they are willing to book a girl for the next couple of hours.
A guy goes to New Bangkok Escort's website or one of the others because he is just browsing around checking out what escorts look like, thinking about trying one someday, it looks like he's supposed to book a girl a day ahead of time or whatever, hell he can't plan his trip to Bangkok down to the hour like that, has no idea what he'll be up to tomorrow, 5,000 baht is a bit steep for two hours, especially sight unseen and all that. But then he gets pitched to go to smooci and they're showing discounted prices IF he is willing to book a girl sometime within the next 4 hours. And that is enough to get him to either shit or get off the pot about booking an escort today.
I think it is a smart sales move for those escort agencies.
[QUOTE=EihTooms;1973342]I think they are producing what in sales is known as "an urgency to buy".
But then he gets pitched to go to smooci and they're showing discounted prices IF he is willing to book a girl sometime within the next 4 hours. And that is enough to get him to either shit or get off the pot about booking an escort today.
I think it is a smart sales move for those escort agencies.[/QUOTE]Maybe its a smart move for certain type of customer. I don't get pressured into buying P4 P. Too many years of mamasans giving me the hint and me ignoring them or telling them to [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140][CodeWord140][/url] off.
No way would I pick a time and then one of a limited set of girls offered up, noting that mostly older ones get offered for some reason.
The exact time of a fuck is not the issue for me. Its about finding a special girl in the mob of girls available. So the web site is a bit limited in its approach. I think its going to be a very lucky coincidence if my target girl is available on smooci in the next 4 hours and am I going to type in every possible time one by one looking for an available slot?
This App is very much for guys who are not trying to get to a specific girl or three. Any girl will do. We offer some discount girls. Just pick one.
Would I go to bar and take one of the 6 girls offered today for BF of zero? No unlikely. Probably the least desirable or least in demand girls.
Smooci seems to based on a philosphy that all escorts are desirable and that any one will do when a guy would like one urgently. Perhaps I am a little overly sceptical and certainly extremely picky. I can't just pick the girl in a flash. I need to analyse and investigate about the girl.
[QUOTE=Bkkdog;1973166]LT generally means more than one pop. It can last a few hours or as long as the girl wants to stay. If my examples seem expensive to you, then I would hate to have seen your reaction to the original ops post.[/QUOTE]LT means an overnight stay, unless the definition changed recently, and I failed to notice that it did. There is no limit on pops on an LT, though 3 is the standard if the punter can manage it (2 in the evening, then sleep, then 1 in the morning). Anything less than that is under-delivering on the LT. Which is, of course, fine if the customer accepts it, but not ok otherwise.
ST means anywhere from one pop up to a few hours and 2-3 pops, depending on what the girl and the punter agree on. If not agreed otherwise in advance, the girl will assume one pop.
Sure, service standards have slipped recently, but I don't think it warrants redefining basic terms like LT as "multiple pops". A PSE oily massage session, for instance, is not an LT.
[QUOTE=Crocodilexp;1973534]LT means an overnight stay, unless the definition changed recently, and I failed to notice that it did. There is no limit on pops on an LT, though 3 is the standard if the punter can manage it (2 in the evening, then sleep, then 1 in the morning). Anything less than that is under-delivering on the LT. Which is, of course, fine if the customer accepts it, but not ok otherwise.
ST means anywhere from one pop up to a few hours and 2-3 pops, depending on what the girl and the punter agree on. If not agreed otherwise in advance, the girl will assume one pop.
Sure, service standards have slipped recently, but I don't think it warrants redefining basic terms like LT as "multiple pops". A PSE oily massage session, for instance, is not an LT.[/QUOTE]He could well have written "LT implies multiple pops" with exactly the same meaning as what I believe he wrote and intended. He did not say anything about redefining LT. Comparing to a PSE MP makes no sense.
Yes I always believed originally, that LT meant till morning and that there would be an opportunity for sex in the morning, which is important to me. No better time for it. So I always assumed till at least 8 AM.
However I increasingly found that girls needed to leave by a very early hour, like 6 AM, due to other commitments, e. G. A baby, or before heavy traffic occurs, and since a sex session for me takes an hour, and need to brush my teeth first etc. , I was not going to get enough sleep if I had to wake at 4. 45 am to get my final pop. Some girls even liked to yack till very late, because they are more used to sleeping in the daytime. I am more likely to be ready for a morning pop at 7 to 8 AM.
I started to see that taking LT was a bit pointless, unless girl wanted to stay significantly into the daylight period, and many girls claimed they could not sleep properly during a LT with me. I am known to be a noisy and restless sleeper. There was one regular of mine I managed to persuade to do one pop, go back to the bar nearby to sleep and then return to me in the morning. She was rare though. All other girls that agreed to return in the morning, failed to show up, even they were missing out on more money, same amount as what I gave for the evening ST.
In the modern day, you can't really assume exactly what the girl thinks she is providing for a LT. You had better spell it out and agree to it. I always discuss what time the girl needs to leave, if I take a paid LT which is rare these days. Rip off girls may well be trying to define LT as 3 to 4 hours, and ST as 30 minutes. Does not make it right, of course.
ST Hotels these days are typically only providing 60 minutes. I have to discuss with them a different price when I want more than 60 minutes. In Nana Plaza ST rooms, they may well try to kick you out well short of an hour. I never use Nana Plaza ST rooms any more. Really bad.
Absolutely girls assume ST is over after 1 pop occurred no matter how quick, unless special deal is made.
[QUOTE=Crocodilexp;1973534]LT means an overnight stay, unless the definition changed recently, and I failed to notice that it did. There is no limit on pops on an LT, though 3 is the standard if the punter can manage it (2 in the evening, then sleep, then 1 in the morning). Anything less than that is under-delivering on the LT. Which is, of course, fine if the customer accepts it, but not ok otherwise.
ST means anywhere from one pop up to a few hours and 2-3 pops, depending on what the girl and the punter agree on. If not agreed otherwise in advance, the girl will assume one pop.
Sure, service standards have slipped recently, but I don't think it warrants redefining basic terms like LT as "multiple pops". A PSE oily massage session, for instance, is not an LT.[/QUOTE]I'm not sure what you are talking about. We are talking about freelancers, not massage girls here. 99% of freelancers mean 1 pop for ST and LT means 2 pops and could last a few hours or all night and part of the next day. All depends on the lady. Now if we are taking about the MPs, then ST can mean more than 1 pop.
[QUOTE=Bkkdog;1973624]I'm not sure what you are talking about. We are talking about freelancers, not massage girls here. 99% of freelancers mean 1 pop for ST and LT means 2 pops and could last a few hours or all night and part of the next day. All depends on the lady. Now if we are taking about the MPs, then ST can mean more than 1 pop.[/QUOTE]BKKdog, it is very clear that you do not know what you're talking about. I've never had a freelancer LT, who did not stay overnight.
[QUOTE=AskeAske;1973629]BKKdog, it is very clear that you do not know what you're talking about. I've never had a freelancer LT, who did not stay overnight.[/QUOTE]That's your opinion mate but let's look a little further into that statement. I once hired a lady for LT from 9 PM until 3 AM in the morning and paid her 3,000 Baht and had 3 pops. So by your logic, that would be considered ST because the lady didn't stay until the crack of dawn? Give it a rest. LT is more than one pop and whatever you and the lady agree upon regarding time.
[QUOTE=Bkkdog;1973624]LT means 2 pops and could last a few hours or all night and part of the next day[/QUOTE]This is our point of disagreement.
LT has never been "a few hours and 2 pops". If there's no overnight stay, it's not an LT.
Sure, some girls might attempt to cut it short, or do an ST and charge an LT price, but it's misleading to other punters to claim that LT means just a few hours and two pops. Service standards and average punters' expectations are already lower than before, no need to push them down even lower.
Over the years, I've done the 2-pop deal countless times with freelancers, usually taking 1-2 hours. Always paid an ST price, and not one of them has ever implied that sort of deal is LT. Of course, asking for 2 pops in advance is necessary, otherwise they'd assume 1 pop.
[QUOTE=Bkkdog;1973642]I once hired a lady for LT from 9 PM until 3 AM in the morning and paid her 3,000 Baht and had 3 pops. So by your logic, that would be considered ST because the lady didn't stay until the crack of dawn? [/QUOTE]
There are always borderline, neither-here-nor-there cases. If you were happy (or wanted to sleep alone) and told her to go, nothing wrong with that, no need to argue about terminology. However, if she made excuses and left on her own at 3am, I'd consider that cutting the LT session short and likely pay less than the LT rate (if what we agreed on was "long time" and not specifically "3 shots").
[QUOTE=Crocodilexp;1973844]
Over the years, I've done the 2-pop deal countless times with freelancers, usually taking 1-2 hours. Always paid an ST price, and not one of them has ever implied that sort of deal is LT. Of course, asking for 2 pops in advance is necessary, otherwise they'd assume 1 pop.[/QUOTE]I agree.
However, my negotiation always centers on TIME rather than number of pops.
For me, ST is 2 to 3 hours, and I request such a stay. I don't do overnight, so LT is rarely an option unless the girl insists and wants to stay (and I agree to that of course).
What happens in the 2 to 3 hours is open to variation. Sometimes I can manage one pop only and that usually happens within 30 mins of getting in the room. However, just last week I managed 3 in the space of 2 1/2 hours.
YMMV.