Berlin

[QUOTE=Bobo. Fr; 1245934]1) As I already mentionned : for 2 hours of meetings, Artemis cost the same amount than Kamilla-Dee (

[url]http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?668-Berlin&p=1162576#post1162576[/url]

) and would cost more than KD for less than 2 hours of meetings.

2) Comparing sauna-clubs to bordellos is a bit comparing Indian cooking to Chinese cooking : it will depend on what you like and expect for!

3) In general in Prague, I spend more money for sex than in Berlin but I can not say that Prague is more expensive than Berlin because in Prague, I often use "foreigner-oriented" escorts agencies' services while in Berlin, I often use bordellos' services : we can not really compare cakes to vegetables![/QUOTE]Admittedly, I realize, and even mentioned in my post, that there may be other factors aside from sheer economic cost, which some gentlemen might prefer in a bordello type experience versus what goes on at the FKK Artemis. However, it has been confirmed in Angus Magee's post that Kamilla Dee bordello cannot be discussed in the comparison to Artemis because BBBJ is not available at Kamilla Dee, whereas a standard session at the FKK Artemis includes BBBJ, not as an additional paid extra, but as included in the standard session price of 120 Euro per hour. In the other bordellos like Royal and Van Kampen it will cost an extra 30 Euro to have BBBJ included in the session, raising the cost for an hour session including BBBJ to (150 + 30=) 180 Euros at those bordellos.

Therefore, for guys interested in BBBJ, the cost comparison between the FKK Artemis and those bordellos which have high end line ups similar, or at least approaching, what Artemis can offer, for an hour of full service GFE session including BBBJ, remains as I have stated in my previous post.

However, for those guys who do not seek BBBJ, and even at Artemis request a condom be used for the blow job, the availability of BBBJ at Artemis is of no value to them. For guys not seeking BBBJ, your observation that, at the two hours of sessions quantity, because of the 80 Euro entrance fee at Artemis, the costs at Artemis for two hours of sessions are equivalent to the costs for two hours at Kamilla Dee remain accurate, as well as the implication that Artemis will come out more expensive for a one hour session, and less expensive for three hours of sessions than at Kamilla Dee. But this is only relevant to those guys not interested in BBBJ being included in the session, or even for those guys who like BBBJ, but are willing to pay the same rate at Kamilla Dee without BBBJ because of other factors they like about this bordello. But if one is to compare costs strictly, then one has to compare those places which offer similar services to Artemis, which Kamilla Dee does not.

[QUOTE=Rocketboy0; 1245878]All true. But a few additional thoughts. A lot of these calculations are relative in that you have to first be in a given location. The cost of getting to Kiev, Prague, Warsaw or Chiang Mai etc has to be factored in. Then even when there, there are time costs getting to know the scene, traveling to find comfort zones and flats etc. Then there is the risk factor-risk of false advertising, of faulty info, or good old-fashioned danger. True apples to apples (or mellons to mellons) comparisons are tough.

On the quality level, e g one would have to pay 25-50% more in London (which admittedly has significant amounts of good choices) , or say in New York, or LA, it can easily be double the cost and requires a lot of work and running around. In Geneva, or Zurich, there are also very good choices, again at about double the cost, though well organized. If you read say the Kiev ISG forum, it seems to be between epic and mythic. Some stunners, good prices, but a fair bit of hassles too. I must admit I would love to go sometime, but I keep getting put off by the potential complications and while some might find the feeling of being constantly on edge an additional 007ish thrill, I do not. All these places probably have their ebb and flow-recall in the late 90s / early 2000s the Baltics were "it". Perhaps Serbia and Croatia are. But you still have to get there, contend with the language and culture and unknown unknown issues. Of course like anywhere, once one really knows the scene, it is different. But there is a real cost in acquiring that knowledge, ISG reports not withstanding.

So the point is, Berlin IMHO remains a very good overall value proposition. It is safe, has wide variety of choices, a lot of cultural options when not partaking, it is easy to get around, and the whole business is well organized and just very hassle-free. It may not be the cheapest, but overall, it is a good deal.[/QUOTE]What you say about the need to include travel costs in an accurate cost comparison is true, Rocketboy0. However, from a given point in the USA or Canada, let's say from New York, the cost of flights to any given point in Europe, be it Berlin or Kiev, probably can range from between the $600's to the $800's, depending on season and on which destination country, so the differential of $100 to $200 in airfare price is not that significant a factor to recommend one destination over another on that basis, because it is a one time cost. The p4p costs on a mongering weekend or week or month at play are RECURRENT costs and can mount up quickly. Therefore, lower net costs per p4p session can allow more sessions to fit into one's budget, a primary consideration for a monger planning a sex trip. Besides the luxury apartment costs in a place like Kiev are a bit lower than the high end hotel costs with similar luxury appointments in places like London or Berlin, so the savings in hotel costs makes up a little for the slightly higher airfare to Kiev. Therefore, the cost comparison between different cities in Europe can afford to ignore the travel costs, and still remain an accurate analysis, especially where the price difference is so marked. As I pointed out the rates for p4p in Kiev and Warsaw are less than half of the rates in Berlin.

Furthermore, your comments about safety are well taken. I have always been a safety conscious fellow. However, in Kiev I have always felt safe. I only go to public establishments frequented by lots of people downtown. In Kiev, the action centers around Rio strip club, various regular nightclubs and discoteques like Buddha Bar, D'lux and Shooters, which have become locations where fair numbers of high class working girls looking for dates also come, and the main streets and shopping malls of downtown Kiev where there are lots of beautiful girls you can try to start up with, and with whom many guys succeed. All these are very public and safe venues. In addition, guys are using outcall escorts be it from mamba. Ru, top-modals. Com or a host of other internet outcall escort agencies that abound in Kiev, and the girls come to the guy's apartment, which is also relatively safe. I don't recommend going off alone to far flung apartments in unfamiliar neighborhoods where one doesn't know who is there waiting for sure. My posts on the Kiev thread, and the posts of all the other contributors, should make it easy for anyone to hit the ground running and have loads of less expensive fun if they choose to go to Kiev.

But what you say about there being a learning curve, and some hassle, until one knows how and where to safely get high quality, less expensive pussy in a new venue one has not visited before, is of course true. However, ISG forum helps a LOT in that area, as one can read the posts of, and directly ask, those who have gone before. Sure it takes a little while until you get your "sailor's legs" in a new city you've never visited before, but that is part of the adventure. And, nowadays tools similar to Google Maps and Google Translate clear away much of the unfamiliarity and language barrier in cities where English is not widely spoken, making it possible to visit such places too.

This is not to say that visiting places which are not large tourist centers wouldn't raise concerns for safety. But large cities in Eastern Europe such as Kiev, Warsaw, Krakow or Prague, all frequented by many tourists, shouldn't be threatening if one uses basic common sense about personal security and sticks to public venues.

Just a short note-the cost of BBBJ at Royal may well be €30 or it could be €20 + 10 for CIM. It has been a while since I used their services and memory is not entirely accurate. I do seem to remember my last visit I paid €190 for BBBJ, Kissing (broke my cardinal rule-what a waste of €20) but as I say, not certain. I am sorry if this throws out your calculations LJ but I think we catch your drift and the basic costs do remain the same. I just mention this in the interest of accuracy.

AM

[QUOTE=Angus Magee; 1245848]A fine analysis LJ. I just want to note that this is concentrated on the higher end of Berlin paid sex. To say over all the Berlin is an expensive destination is not that accurate. It is expensive at the level of which you speak. This may well be your preferred level but there are many other alternatives available. Hell, you can get laid here for as little as €30. The hunt for a good cheap session can of course be time consuming and I admit one can spend a lot looking for that "one". But it can be, and is, done by the locas. Certainly as a visitor, if you want a certain level of looks and service at a moments notice, you have to pay more. To call Berlin a very expensive paid sex destination in Europe though is not entirely accurate.

But as I say, excellent analysis. In the end I certainly agree that there is cheaper FKK sex to be had in Germany where there is more competition. In Berlin at the moment, Artemis is it and it is expensive.

AM[/QUOTE]Yes AM, you are indeed right. I am only seeking and talking about p4p girls who are 8's. 9's or 10's, possessing a high level of beauty and who deliver GFE service. If there are less expensive ways of getting such girls at lower prices, then it is very valuable knowledge. I am decidedly uninterested in a 30 Euro fuck with some unappealing hooker. I would more enjoy a self service relief using my favorite porn website to stir the imagination. So, if there are girls in the 8 to 10 range available at prices lower than the Royal or VK bordellos, it is valuable knowledge which should be disseminated.

True again, the knowledge possessed by the "locals" of how to find inexpensive, yet high quality pussy, is indeed a very valuable thing for a hobbyist. For example, I never quite mastered the possibilities of Budapest, before I found and became enchanted with Kiev, yet I know that the local guys in Budapest know how to find awesome looking girls in that city who can be had for a very reasonable price for less than 100 Euro / hour. I may yet go back to Budapest, but I am currently more drawn to Warsaw or Krakow as new venues for me.

Thanks for your kind and gentle words.

LJ

[QUOTE=Angus Magee; 1246002]Just a short note-the cost of BBBJ at Royal may well be €30 or it could be €20 + 10 for CIM. It has been a while since I used their services and memory is not entirely accurate. I do seem to remember my last visit I paid €190 for BBBJ, Kissing (broke my cardinal rule-what a waste of €20) but as I say, not certain. I am sorry if this throws out your calculations LJ but I think we catch your drift and the basic costs do remain the same. I just mention this in the interest of accuracy.

AM[/QUOTE]Yes, AM, it changes the numbers slightly, but the conclusion based on the comparison is still the same. To wit: Artemis is a better deal than the bordellos! At Artemis three hours of sessions is still (120+120+120 plus 80 entrance fee =) 440 Euros, with a one hour net rate of 146 Euro / hr for full service including BBBJ and including kissing. By comparison, at Royal bordello where it cost you 190 Euro for 1 hour for the same services, it would be 570 Euros for the same three hours of sessions, which is 130 Euros more than if you had gone to Artemis.

Even for those only interested in a 1 hour session, the price differential between Artemis (200 Euro) and Royal (190 Euro) for a GFE session including BBBJ and kissing, is only 10 Euro, which seems worth it to pay in order to have the wider and better selection that is available at Artemis.

If you eliminate the kissing at Royal, and subtract the 20 Euro for that service, then the total price for a 1 hour session at Royal including BBBJ, but not kissing, is 170 Euros. Three hours of such sessions will be a total of 510 Euros, while at Artemis it would be 440 Euros, making Artemis the lower priced choice, and they will throw in the kissing for you for no extra charge. LOL.

Thanks much, AM.

LJ

[QUOTE=Rocketboy0;1245878]A I must admit I would love to go sometime, but I keep getting put off by the potential complications and while some might find the feeling of being constantly on edge an additional 007ish thrill, I do not.[/QUOTE]For me one of the things that actually puts me off FKK is exactly that it seems so very safe. Maybe it is just an issue with me but isn't, or wasn't one of the reasons we all started mongering in the first place for the thrill of discovery, for exploration? And isn't part of any good adventure the very real possibility that something unforeseen, even dangerous might happen? In this light I have to say thank god for the sharks and barracuda that prowl the carpets at Artemis trying to lure me into the room to savage me and relieve me of my treasure. But for them I might just fall asleep more than I already am.

I can remember way, way back in my youth, while I was waiting on a visa to get me into Afghanistan, prowling the back streets of some back alley bazaar in Tehran looking for some very illegal tail. (This was in pre-hostage taking days) That I did not find any that I had the courage to approach was besides the point. It was the adrenal charged danger of the hunt that, looking back, I valued most. I remember that way more than any pussy I have had.

These days I do consider that we mongers have the internet and forums such as this to help us try to avoid some of the worst dangers out there. I also feel though that this comes with a cost, the lessening of the buzz one feels when on the hunt. I guess some of us try to amp it up by searching out ever more beautiful, maybe expensive, tail. Others turn to bare back or bizarre fantasy fulfilment. All of us though I think do have to come somehow to terms with the fact that safety is the kissing cousin of boredom and as much as we try to eliminate the unexpected, life has a way of grabbing hold and rubbing our waning peckers straight into it.

All Hail Chaos and get me to Kiev

;)

AM

[QUOTE=Angus Magee; 1246315]These days I do consider that we mongers have the internet and forums such as this to help us try to avoid some of the worst dangers out there. I also feel though that this comes with a cost, the lessening of the buzz one feels when on the hunt. I guess some of us try to AMP it up by searching out ever more beautiful, maybe expensive, tail. Others turn to bare back or bizarre fantasy fulfilment. All of us though I think do have to come somehow to terms with the fact that safety is the kissing cousin of boredom and as much as we try to eliminate the unexpected, life has a way of grabbing hold and rubbing our waning peckers straight into it.

All Hail Chaos and get me to Kiev.

AM[/QUOTE]Hey, for sure if you got your ass to sub-zero-Kiev these days your pecker would wane big time, no?

Your point about the thrill of discovery, the adrenaline of the hunt, etc. Are bang on: But did you ever consider that these days there is such stress and sometimes risk taking just to acquire and spend the funds necessary to monger on the e. G. FKK-level. Maybe this kind of balances things when we coast through a deep line-up at a good FKK.

O

[QUOTE=Angus Magee;1246315]For me one of the things that actually puts me off FKK is exactly that it seems so very safe. It was the adrenal charged danger of the hunt that, looking back, I valued most. I remember that way more than any pussy I have had. AM[/QUOTE]Well, that could be because you were getting too many adrenalin thrills, and not enough pussy. :eek:

As I did say, I do understand this, Mr. Bond. I promise you, in my youth, I had more than my share of all this intrigue and international man of mystery stuff, in then Bombay, or in towns in the Himalaya now out of bounds, in very odd and dodgy places in New York, LA, Frankfurt, Paris, and London, forbidden zones in Stockholm or Copenhagen, etc. But as I have put some kilometers behind me, the thrill has gone. Plus it just takes up so damn much time, time I don't have anymore. I find it more than thrilling enough to explore a new, strange woman, to try to figure what makes her tick, and see if we can get our bodies in synch in some more than commercially satisfying fashion, and I am very grateful when the sheer access part is quick and easy. I guess it is choosing the c unt vs the hunt, or just becoming a lazy fucker. But to each his own. I know you miss your Langley days.

[QUOTE=Angus Magee;1246315]For me one of the things that actually puts me off FKK is exactly that it seems so very safe. Maybe it is just an issue with me but isn't, or wasn't one of the reasons we all started mongering in the first place for the thrill of discovery, for exploration? And isn't part of any good adventure the very real possibility that something unforeseen, even dangerous might happen?[/QUOTE]Sounds like your looking for the adrenalin rush as well as the sex. I've got buddies who travel to Rio and Costa Rica, those destinations easily add 'danger' to the hobby. Stumbling into the wrong place at the wrong time is not my idea of discovery and exploring for some pussy. Other options are outcall where you basically have to wait for hours until the girl gets dropped off and hope she's your type. You get a girl who's twice the weight that was advertised and who's driver is a huge biker dude, your going to get your 'thrill of discovery' in spades if U-turn her down. Mind you, I'm 2 meters tall and weigh in at 120 kilo's, there's a time to fight and there's a time to fuck. I prefer to keep them separate. Enjoy the clubs for their relative safety, relive and retell the fight that you won 'back in your youth', forget about the one's you lost.

[QUOTE=Angus Magee; 1246315]For me one of the things that actually puts me off FKK is exactly that it seems so very safe. Maybe it is just an issue with me but isn't, or wasn't one of the reasons we all started mongering in the first place for the thrill of discovery, for exploration? And isn't part of any good adventure the very real possibility that something unforeseen, even dangerous might happen? In this light I have to say thank god for the sharks and barracuda that prowl the carpets at Artemis trying to lure me into the room to savage me and relieve me of my treasure. But for them I might just fall asleep more than I already am.

AM[/QUOTE]I can relate to what you're saying Mr. Bond, although I don't think I would go as far as to Afghanistan in order to fullfill my adrenaline rush! But there is absolutely sense in what you say. I haven't really thought about it before, but I remember I'd been numerous times to Prague during the last decade and knew the city almost better than my hometown. Then I went there with two friends last autumn. They had never been there before, and even though it was an enjoyable trip I felt at some point this déjà vu feeling of boredom. First of all because they wanted to go the same safe, but cheap clubs. I have always craved for something new, then I had my job-related trip to Berlin and discovered Artemis and FKK clubs for the first time. What a great thrill! It feels like a drug, I just want more.

Today I still love Prague, but it feels like I've found a new "lover" in Frankfurt and Berlin, if it makes sense. The day will soon come when I want to discover the NRW clubs. One of my most exciting and "scary" episodes actually happened in Prague for about 4 years ago, when I was mistaken for being member of the Russian mafia, and was led by one of the bouncers in a basement of one of the nightclubs (that disappeared after the financial crisis). I can assure you that the adrenaline was pumping! The story behind is rather long, so I won't bother you, unless you demand the details.

Was at euphorie massage last week and wanted to try Nuru massage for the first time.

Presented with the lineup of 5 ladies and then the receptionist asked me what I want and with whom in German.

As my german is not so good and she couldn't speak english, she called one of the ladies to talk with me.

She explained what Nuru massage was and that it starts with hot stone massage and is body to body massage with mutual touching.

From the lineup I choose Lucy. She is petit, has a pretty face, slim body and a-cup breasts.

[url]http://www.euphorie-massagen.de/lucy.html[/url]

Unfortunately she couldn't speak any english, so I had to use my very little german when we talked to each other.

I have had many tantra (real tantra) and body to body massage in the past. I experienced no difference between this massage and an ordinary body to body massage with oil and couldn't feel the Nuru gel to be very different from massage oil. The massage was not special, but good. She was very good with HJ and I got the chance for a little DATY, but stopped short after as she was smeared in oil and Nuru gel and it didn't tasted good.

Was offered shower both before and after the massage. While I was waiting for the shower to be ready after the massage, I read the label of Nuru gel bottle. It was written that there is two different bottle and both should be mixed with each other and another liquid (forgotten what) and then it is ready for massage. Under the massage she only warmed the bottle and applied them one after another.

PS: I wanted to buy a pre-paid sim card for data usage (internet, mail, etc) and googled for pre-paid sim cards. All of them required to activate the sim card over the internet or by calling to a number. As my german is not good and the wireless in my hotel didn't worked, I just went to a small store near my hotel and asked if they had any sim card which also can be used for data. They offered me Lyca mobile sim card for 7. 5 euro and said if I charged it with another 10 euro it will give me 300 MB data. As soon as I put the sim card in my phone, I got a setting message for gprs and could use it for data. No activation, no adding 10 euro extra, no nothing. It gave me around 25 MB and some national calls and then run out of credit. I recharged it again with 10 euro and used almost 90 MB and again some national calls and there was still credit on the sim card. So for those who want to use data connection and don't want to pay roaming prices (for me was 2. 50 euro per MB) it is a good deal.

[QUOTE=Shah Khan;1246721]Was at euphorie massage last week and wanted to try Nuru massage for the first time.[/QUOTE]Thanks for this report SK. I have been curious about both the place and this Nuru massage. Euphorie gets rather mixed reviews in the German forums but it is close to where I live and way more convenient than other massage studios. While mutual massage including oral (on her) seems pretty standard in most places I had the impression that it was not so at Euphorie. Can I ask was there and discusion of this before hand or did it just happen?

It does not sound though that the Nuru part of the massage is really worth any extra expense. Can I also ask what you paid for the massage and for how long? One of the things that bugs me, and makes me reluctant to try this place, is that they are a bit vague about how much the various massage cost on the website. Never a good sign in my experience.

Regrads.

AM

[QUOTE=Rocketboy0;1246357]forbidden zones in Copenhagen, etc.[/QUOTE]Sorry to correct you, there are no forbidden zones in Copenhagen, we have some nasty clubs but no forbidden zones!

[QUOTE=Angus Magee; 1246807]Thanks for this report SK. I have been curious about both the place and this Nuru massage. Euphorie gets rather mixed reviews in the German forums but it is close to where I live and way more convenient than other massage studios. While mutual massage including oral (on her) seems pretty standard in most places I had the impression that it was not so at Euphorie. Can I ask was there and discusion of this before hand or did it just happen?

It does not sound though that the Nuru part of the massage is really worth any extra expense. Can I also ask what you paid for the massage and for how long? One of the things that bugs me, and makes me reluctant to try this place, is that they are a bit vague about how much the various massage cost on the website. Never a good sign in my experience.

Regrads.

AM[/QUOTE]Nuru, Soapy, Oily B2B massage have all the same effect on me. I got a hard on, LOL,

I prefer oil, warm oil is actually nicer and make your skin softer, while nuru is more "sticky and dirty" (sounds good right?) and soap could leave your skin dry.

[QUOTE=Nille Copenhagen;1246817]Sorry to correct you, there are no forbidden zones in Copenhagen, we have some nasty clubs but no forbidden zones![/QUOTE]Nille. I was using the word in a kind of literary sense, as in places one should not really be in. I meant really "rough" areas and neighborhoods, with lots of DK skinheads and motorcycle gangs etc. Every one knows Kobenhavn is (in general) a very fine, safe, friendly, welcoming city, with lovely girls. I just wish they were not so expensive....

[QUOTE=Angus Magee; 1246807]Thanks for this report SK. I have been curious about both the place and this Nuru massage. Euphorie gets rather mixed reviews in the German forums but it is close to where I live and way more convenient than other massage studios. While mutual massage including oral (on her) seems pretty standard in most places I had the impression that it was not so at Euphorie. Can I ask was there and discusion of this before hand or did it just happen?

It does not sound though that the Nuru part of the massage is really worth any extra expense. Can I also ask what you paid for the massage and for how long? One of the things that bugs me, and makes me reluctant to try this place, is that they are a bit vague about how much the various massage cost on the website. Never a good sign in my experience.

Regrads.

AM[/QUOTE]There was no discussion of DATY in advance. I just asked her to turn around in 69 position while she was giving me HJ and then begun touching and then licking.

The price for an hour of Nuru massage was 150 euro. If I remember correctly other massage price range was between 100 and 120 for one hour.

The place seems to be well run and all 5 ladies on the lineup were attractive.