Bangkok Reports

[QUOTE=EihTooms;1978308]See, I would consider what both you and Smoothy describe as GFE to you falls into the category of "demeanor" that appeals to you and therefore not really different from the "she was nice to me during the P4 P session" concept that I mentioned earlier. It is so subjective as to have virtually no meaning at all when it comes to the next punter looking for a tangible result in a P4 P session. A girl you'd want to take on vacation with you? The three of us might agree that a chatty, sociable lady with a great sense of humor fits the bill while the next guy would like nothing better than his "girlfriend" just STFU so he can hear the waves lapping on the shore. Act like she is genuinely into having sex with me? Good lord, imo that is about as basic a starting point for a P4 P girl earning her money as to be a total deal killer without it. Hardly worthy of touting a girl who at least tries that hard as offering something "extra" as in GFE. Moreover, since I cannot possibly know how shitty the past "girlfriends" of another punter treated him throughout his life, for him to now tell me a particular P4 P girl treated him like a million bucks and delivered wonderful GFE might only mean she didn't bark at him to stop slouching the moment he walked into the hotel room with her.

Asian Rain in his previous post is onto what I am talking about as the classically accepted notion of what those three letters, "GFE", used to mean in the P4 P world in terms of a tangible feature and result offered by a P4 P girl as objective and specific as if a girl said she would give you a BBBJ+CIM or A-Level service. Thankfully, we as punters have not over the years reduced and diluted the meaning of "BBBJ+CIM" to now allow that it could possibly mean a girl sits on the corner of the bed pointing to her mouth while the punter wanks himself off sitting on the opposite corner of the bed, but does so with a big, friendly smile on her face. No, we have stuck to our guns on what the term "BBBJ+CIM" means and what the result of it ought to be before we lay out the baht for it. But not so with "GFE". That now means virtually anything any punter wants it to mean.

As far as my alluding to some bars in Bangkok seeming to me to "somewhat institutionalize" a means for customers to get what GFE more classically meant in the past, I am talking about my fairly recent observation and experience with regard to go-go bars where there are "Special" girls on offer for a moderately higher barfine rate, not exactly Coyotes for whom the barfine rate is exorbitantly higher like the 3,000 baht barfine rate at Cowboy 2 on Soi Cowboy and therefore those Coyotes either never or almost never get barfined out by a customer (as intended by the bar that does not want them to go missing for so much as 2 hours from their decorative and Lady Drink hustling duties at their bar), but the places where the barfine for certain girls is, say, 1,000 baht or 1,500 baht vs 700 baht for the non "Special" girls working there. It seems to me of late that either by insinuation from management to the girls or simply a tacit understanding among the girls who want to remain on that "Special" girl list or who are simply motivated by a sense of competition to bag as many customers and especially repeat customers as possible, the set up, the "institution" is such that those girls are noticeably more inclined to say yes to providing that kind of GFE or whatever "special" service beyond the standard accepted one these days. That they will do so as though they genuinely want to have sex with me or at least as pleasantly as the kind of lady I wouldn't mind having spend a weekend with me on vacation would, in my humble opinion, be a rock bottom basic "given" in the transaction without which I probably wouldn't even bother.

Now, I don't mean to say ALL of those kind of "Special" girls will agree in the bar negotiation to providing whatever special service constitutes a GFE to every punter (btw, in these cases I believe that detail needs to be negotiated and agreed to by the girl in the bar beforehand. Not with a smile and a nod. Not even with an "ok" from the girl. Thai girls often are not committed to the idea that the word "ok" is the same as saying "yes" to something. A firm and unambiguous "yes" is the word we need to hear. Nothing else means "yes" to many Thai girls). Not at all. But it has been my impression of late that where the bar and the girl expects you to pay a reasonably higher barfine to the bar in order to take her out (1,000 or 1,500 vs the usual 700 baht), it is not UNexpected by her that you would naturally be inclined to ask for a higher level of service in exchange for it, more than the usual or standard service shall we say. She might still say no. I don't mean she will definitely say yes or that the bar is pressuring her to say yes or anything of the kind. But she at least will hear without recoiling in fake horror that your willingness to pay an 800 baht surcharge for her time and services ought naturally to be balanced by her willingness to deliver more for it. It isn't in writing. It doesn't appear on a menu. It won't be spelled out by a mamasan and there are no Coyotes standing outside the bar holding a sign telling customers that is the deal with the "Special" girls in this or that bar. But it is somewhat institutionalized by the understanding among most concerned that they are asking customers to pay that 800 baht surcharge over the usual barfine rate for certain ladies to deliver something tangibly and objectively more and not just for exhibiting a more pleasant demeanor while delivering the usual, standard level of service.[/QUOTE]Well, that is certainly a long and roundabout way of saying you consider GFE = BBFS.

[QUOTE=Geano;1978286]Hi all,

If traveling to Thailand and doing some mongering do you carry you passport at all times? Or locking in hotel safe?, and if visiting a massage place or soapy do the have lockers for your clothing and stuff?

Thanks,

Geano.[/QUOTE]I just carry a coloured photocopy of it in my wallet.

Sometime I do take a picture with my phone of the visa stamp page.

I have also a set of pictures of all my ID's in my phone, incl driving licence.

No lockers in MP. Lucky if they have a hanger. Just keep all un the pocket and go to known places.

Don't carry more than what is needed.

[QUOTE=BionicMan;1978335]I just carry a coloured photocopy of it in my wallet.

Sometime I do take a picture with my phone of the visa stamp page.

I have also a set of pictures of all my ID's in my phone, incl driving licence.

No lockers in MP. Lucky if they have a hanger. Just keep all un the pocket and go to known places.

Don't carry more than what is needed.[/QUOTE]Having had a bag stolen before, I can say you definitely do not want to have your passport with you. It is too valuable. Leave it somewhere safe. Also to carry only what you really need to carry with you. Imagine if you happened to somehow lose your wallet or similar.

Good advice to carry photocopies only.

[QUOTE=ArnPoddict;1978309]You want best looking bar girls who will have fun with you and fuck you as you were their boyfriend. Good luck. Hopefully you are young and handsome, it helps.

Most of the best looking bar girls I take to my hotel room in Thailand don't really enjoy themselves. For them it is just a business transaction. I don't mind, I pay these hookers to fuck them and to play with their bodies, not to have fun with me.[/QUOTE]No I am not young and handsome. Yet can find young girls really into it, certainly not all of them. Thai girls are a bit different to Western girls. They like nice men more than young arrogant men. Young and handsome would be just a bonus for them. Some young and beautiful girls that work part time, tell me they actually like sex a lot. The advantage of bar girls is that they are not getting far too many fucks per day. This can also be an advantage of very plain girls. They may not be getting too many fucks as well.

My freelancer repeated 4 times in total, was originally met on the street. Not stunning for looks but acceptable to me. She got 3 pops last session (in DATY, cowgirl and prone). She had been up country and no sex for at least 2 weeks. She was actually quite horny. She said this was the most pops she ever got single occasion as a street free lancer. Get the girl in the right mood and the right occasion, can be a cracker. I prefer to avoid girls taking 6 to 10 fucks per day, and just going through the motions. Stunning girls do not need to take so many fucks per day to make money too.

Ever since I first tried a Thai girl, maybe 30 years ago, I have always found Thai hookers were much more into it than western hookers of my home country, and particularly the Thai part time hookers. My early Thermae experiences were really great. It's a pity that Thermae is now dominated by presumably full time hookers, often looking for a quickie rather than all night.

Thai girls are far more likely to take a foreign boyfriend of significantly higher age, compared to age gaps western girls accept. Some girls really say they prefer older guys. One such Thai girl told me she started with western guys at the age of 16 and has not had Thai man ever in her life, nor been interested in one. A very exceptional case, no doubt. Other Thai girls got sick of very unreliable Thai men who make a baby and then just disappear. It is claimed that foreign men have a greater sense of responsibility, to look after their women and children.

[QUOTE=Syzygies;1978339]Having had a bag stolen before, I can say you definitely do not want to have your passport with you. It is too valuable. Leave it somewhere safe. Also to carry only what you really need to carry with you. Imagine if you happened to somehow lose your wallet or similar.

Good advice to carry photocopies only.[/QUOTE]When I say carry all in the pocket, I referred to MP visits where there is no locker.

The "all" means "what you carry daily", I. E. The minimum basic.

Keeping in the pocket means not forgetting it somewhere.

Just as much do in my hotel room even if alone. All grouped together.

Of course passport and most of valuables stay in the staff till when needed.

I have a light coloured bag to keep stuff in the safe, to avoid something stays behind.

Always have phone, iPad, passport covers or folders of a bright colour, I. E. Not black: more visible on a hotel room desk of shelf.

Leave them in a clear area, will be more visible to your eyes when leaving the room.

I wear a Rolex and never had an issue. They might think it is fake, LOL.

I leave it in the safe only in some places or if I plan to go to unknown environments.

Not a big target as cash or iPhone, LOL.

Also a passport is not a target, but can be list, of course.

[QUOTE=LAGuy5;1978322]Well, that is certainly a long and roundabout way of saying you consider GFE = BBFS.[/QUOTE]I am sure Smoothy did not seek to imply he got BBFS with all Tilac girls, when he said GFE. I probably failed to grasp what ET may have been hinting at. I did struggle to understand ET's post, being rather indirect vague stuff.

[QUOTE=Syzygies;1978348]I am sure Smoothy did not seek to imply he got BBFS with all Tilac girls, when he said GFE.[/QUOTE]Of course not. It's all about attitude. It has nothing to do with BBFS.

[QUOTE=LAGuy5;1978322]Well, that is certainly a long and roundabout way of saying you consider GFE = BBFS.[/QUOTE]Um. That's not really the only thing that post was about. Much of it was in response to Syzy's wondering what I meant about some bars seeming to "somewhat institutionalize" a means for the customer to get whatever he might consider a more tangible and objective version of the more classically defined GFE.

[QUOTE=Syzygies;1978348]I am sure Smoothy did not seek to imply he got BBFS with all Tilac girls, when he said GFE. I probably failed to grasp what ET may have been hinting at. I did struggle to understand ET's post, being rather indirect vague stuff.[/QUOTE]LOL. Well, if we're no longer worried about coming right out and posting about no condom vaginal intercourse (BBFS) here for fear of rooting out the Safe Sex, This is the Wrong Forum, We're All Going To Die, You're Boring Me, Why Did You Taunt The Safe Sex Scolds?, Violating Board Rules and Guidelines crowd in posts where that subject is broached, I can certainly be a lot more direct and less vague about it next time.

But I had no idea what Smoothy meant by GFE either since it could well mean anything today and no longer means what it classically meant (BBFS). That is why I asked if he could elaborate on what he meant. As I mentioned in that long reply, based on what I have observed and experienced of late with regard to some bars "somewhat institutionalizing" a means to achieve the BBFS kind of GFE with certain girls, I believe he COULD have meant Tilac Bar is on that program. In which case, I would be quite a bit more interested in re-visiting Tilac Bar and giving it another chance. That is why I asked what he meant by GFE.

As an interesting aside, the reasonably higher 1,500 baht barfine vs the regular 700 baht issue at some bars I mentioned in my longer reply might very well also apply during holiday periods where they jack up the barfine rate to that amount. I stopped into Mandarin go-go bar (middle level) this Christmas Eve and after the first sip of her Lady Drink a cute, fit, young girl who probably was ordinarily a regular 700 baht barfine girl when it isn't a holiday said the barfine tonight is 1,500 baht instead of 700 because of Christmas. So I hit her with the question about what I would expect to happen if I paid 1,500 baht just to barfine her, including BBFS/no condom vaginal intercourse, and have never had that question answered in the affirmative so fast! "YES!" As I was trying to say previously, I believe many of these girls appreciate and understand there ought to be a good reason a customer pays 800 baht more just to the bar in order to take them out and are up for discussing the reasons early and often. True, there is no way for me to know if that is the way she would have replied even when the barfine hadn't been jacked up for the holiday, but just passing along that little tidbit anyway.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;1978368]LOL. Well, if we're no longer worried about coming right out and posting about no condom vaginal intercourse (BBFS) here for fear of rooting out the Safe Sex, This is the Wrong Forum, You're Boring Me, Why Did You Taunt The Safe Sex Scolds?, Viotaling Board Rules and Guidelines crowd in posts where that subject is broached, I can certainly be a lot more direct and less vague about it next time.
[/QUOTE]I am sorry. I like fairly straight forward talk that is understandable. Those who lecture on safe sex are clearly outside the rules, if in the wrong thread.

It is not illegal to mention BBFS sex if that is the intended meaning, however advisable to not taunt the safe sex preachers too much, by overdoing it or by being too smart ass about it (not implying anything about yourself here). So gloating is not a good idea, though not always easy to know what will rile the religious preachers.

I even liked some of your previous comments about having the test result certificates/prints, which also could be useful even in event of a condom accident.

I did not get the hint about BBFS, if there was one. Not that intuitive, myself. If you had mentioned it more directly, would not have upset me at all. I am not a safe sex preacher, and I recognise the rules do not permit it. I only dislike it when it becomes a battle in the wrong thread. I think every guy can make his own decision what things are too risky for him, or put the debates in the Safe Sex thread. For many it is a boring topic, done to death so many times.

I definitely think a CBJ would detract significantly from a GFE (LOL). I can't recall my last CBJ in Thailand. Too long ago, but may have been when the girl had a gum injury or just returned from dentist. If necessary, I promise not to CIM, and girls generally trust me.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;1978368]what it classically meant (BBFS). [/QUOTE]That's what it classically meant? I must have missed that definition in all my years in Asia. I always thought GFE meant they acted like a girlfriend. To describe a girl who does BBFS, I simply say BBFS or raw. I'm not sure why you would want to cloud the issue by trying to mask it by lumping it into the GFE category. There are plenty of hard core mercenary hookers who allow BBFS but aren't GFE in any way. Since you use GFE to describe BBFS, how do you describe an actual girl friend experience?

[QUOTE=Syzygies;1978379]I even liked some of your previous comments about having the test result certificates/prints, which also could be useful even in event of a condom accident.[/QUOTE]I would be fully in favor of venues offering BBFS as just another item on their menu (in places where items like BBBJ, BBBJ+CIM, A-Level, DFK, etc. also appear on a menu) for the same kind of additional surcharge some venues charge for A-Level, but only IF the customer can also produce a current, within a couple of months, clean blood check document for HIV / STDs along with a matching copy of his passport photo page to match the name on the document. The birth control issue was always taken care of by the girls in the pre HIV hysteria age anyway and is easier for them to utilize more effective methods of birth control now, so proving a customer had gotten a vasectomy and could not impregnate the girl would not be a factor. And, of course, the girl would have to be agreeable to it for the specific customer regardless what a menu says.

I see far more upside for venues and girls offering such an option under those circumstances than downside. For one, it would encourage more BBFS fans to go get themselves tested so they and their partners will know if they are at high risk to each other or near zero risk. And any time you get touchy subjects out there in the open and out of the shadows, the better for everyone.

[QUOTE=Smoothy;1978398]That's what it classically meant? I must have missed that definition in all my years in Asia. I always thought GFE meant they acted like a girlfriend. To describe a girl who does BBFS, I simply say BBFS or raw. I'm not sure why you would want to cloud the issue by trying to mask it by lumping it into the GFE category. There are plenty of hard core mercenary hookers who allow BBFS but aren't GFE in any way. Since you use GFE to describe BBFS, how do you describe an actual girl friend experience?[/QUOTE]

I would call what you described as GFE as "she was nice to me during the P4 P session," or that "her demeanor appealed to me. " Not that there is no value in that. Of course, there is.

GFE as a euphemism for BBFS in most P4 P mongering destinations around the world in the past still has a residual effect even on places where the proprietors do not mean BBFS today at all, due to the stigma surrounding BBFS since at least the early 1990's, but are likely HOPING their customers might draw that conclusion and patronize their establishment anyway. For example, on some Escort Agency websites, when you see GFE touted as just another feature offered in the check box list for what a particular escort offers right next to where it says BBBJ, CIM, COB, DFK, and so on (or not), do you think the girl is only pitching the idea that she will be nice to you and act like she genuinely wants to have sex with you? Maybe. But imo that's a pretty sad commentary on what her agency thought they were getting in business to provide in the first place. What could a girl possibly mean when she or the venue doesn't include GFE as one of the special features she is up for if it is only meant that she will be nice to you? That she will treat you like an asshole? LOL. Possibly.

No, I think the item GFE is simply included among the possible options today because what GFE classically meant was considered a viable option in the past and they are hoping there is a residual payoff for them to tout it being offered in their establishment today whether it really is officially offered or not. Today, likely not. Not officially, that is.

And to answer your question, "Since you use GFE to describe BBFS, how do you describe an actual girl friend experience", have to say it would never occur to me to go to a P4P venue, hire a girl for or expect to get from a P4P girl the kind of personal feelings, love and intimacy an actual girlfriend provides. Honestly, it would be demeaning to both of us in mind and spirit to do so.

I certainly would expect her to be nice to me or project a pleasant demeanor along the way. Not because there was a box checked next to where it says GFE, but because that is just the way any service provider is expected to behave unless they are bad at their job. But if an actual girlfriend of mine thought or insisted that our sexual experiences together ought to include me wearing a condom for just about anything, she would be replaced by another girlfriend about as fast as you can say, "next". That doesn't mean I don't love her anymore, will ever forget the good times or won't wish things had worked out better between us. But, seriously, she could not be my girlfriend for sexual intimacy or likely for anything more than the annual Merry Christmas and Happy Birthday wishes.

[QUOTE=PonyBoy;1978270]Hi folks,

Just a quick update (or a question).

Is it now a standard or I was just super lucky that the girls in soapy or oil massage places provide second release without asking for extra money? I've been in Bangkok for the past a few days, I've visited 3 soapy venues and 1 massage parlor, all the girls asked me if I want a second shot without me even asking for it (one even asked a third time)! I have to admit that I'm a fast shooter (that also means that I am definitely not on the side which making the girls super satisfied), when I finish, there is usually plenty of time left (if consider 1.5 hour as standard). Even though, during my several visits to Bangkok in the past a few years, I only experienced once that the girl gave me second try, which is under the situation that the previous girl refused to serve me and the manager tried to calm me down and sent me "the best service" girl.

I can only imagine that if it is not the standard, it is probably because recently the number of customers has been declined significantly. Two girls out of the four told me that I was her first customer today, but I visited them at 9 pm and 11 pm! (And believe me or not, they are not bad looking at all.).

No matter what, it is a good news for all of us!! Please tell me if you have any information or updates.

And Merry Christmas![/QUOTE]I would rather say that you were just more lucky than your previous visits. I also am a fast shooter in the beginning of my trips in Thailand and most of the time, the girls are not that much willing to do it a second time. However some girls are OK for a second shot. It's been many years that I've been traveling in Thailand and I did not see any significant change about that. That's the reason why I avoid the 1 shot only places and prefer going in places where the management does not apply strict rules or where it is common to have 2 shots during the session. We tend to believe that all the MPs are sex factories when in fact they are not. It happened a few times that I went to see a girl in an MP around 5 pm (with a line up of 4 or 5 girls) and she told me that it was very quiet, and that there were only 2 customers that entered the shop before me.

I'm always worried that if there is a raid or police control, photocopy might be a problem. In the meanwhile, I hate to carry my passport around.

[QUOTE=Syzygies;1978339]Having had a bag stolen before, I can say you definitely do not want to have your passport with you. It is too valuable. Leave it somewhere safe. Also to carry only what you really need to carry with you. Imagine if you happened to somehow lose your wallet or similar.

Good advice to carry photocopies only.[/QUOTE]