Bangkok Reports

[QUOTE=EihTooms;1989101]Banana Boi, you haven't a clue what you're talking about. We didn't arm wrestle for an hour over how to buy his 1,900 baht boxes of Cialis for less. We asked for Viagra and Cialis, OF WHICH there is no dispute there are "original" and "generic" versions of it and he has them. Either version was available for purchase but he only sneaked out the high priced version to show us and had plenty of opportunity to introduce into the discussion that he also had a much cheaper version of it. We asked if there was a cheaper way to get it and he remained stone faced silent about it while his 400 baht boxes of "generic" Cialis, with that word printed right on the box, were within reach in his little hiding place.

If one needs to corner him into it and shake him out of his usual up-selling methods by using the word "generic" in order to move away from the 1,800/1,900 baht sale he would much rather you think is the only one available, and apparently one does, so be it. Like having to say at a food market, "Do you have bread available today in that hidden cabinet of yours? May I see ALL of your bread items to compare prices, please? That includes white, wheat, pumpernickel, raisin, 12 grain.[/QUOTE]I went in asked for generic calis and within seconds was on way out the door, with what I asked for no trickery, it was double the price from what later I found but I asked and got and left!!

[QUOTE=EihTooms;1989101]
Anyone going to that pharmacy and reading this now knows the drill. Demand to see his cheaper stash of the stuff before purchasing. Meanwhile, the "original" versions he showed us at 1,800 baht and 1,900 baht were exactly the same versions one can buy on the street for 250 baht and 200 baht. And they also have the words "Viagra"-"Pfizer", "Cialis" - "Lilly" on them.[/QUOTE]No need to "demand". Just ask the right question. There is no deception or trickery. He stocks expensive originals only as a service to those that demand originals. Some weird people do. This Pharmacy has a reputation not to sell fakes.

You should know Thailand is renowned for selling fake copies of goods, with seemingly original packaging, whether it be fake Nikes, Adidas, Louis, Rolex, bad quality DVD copies, good quality DVD copies, etc. I have seen the Cialis and Viagra fake copies since 15 or more years ago at less reputable pharmacies (usually small shops) due to customer demand, which originally had slight packaging variations that could be picked. The packaging has probably been enhanced more recently. There is no easy way to tell if 250 Baht "Viagra" on the street is genuine (fell off the back of a truck) or a fake copy, however a fake copy is much more likely. So assume it really is the generic Sildenafil or Tadalafil in reality but packaged in a very good copy of the original.

If you asked for Sildenafil (scientific name of the ingredient), he probably would have shown you Sidegra brand for 200 baht rather than Viagra expensive brand. I never ever saw the genuine brands Viagra and Cialis in his shop nor knew the prices, because I never asked for them. It is that simple. I would have simply asked what is his price for Kamagra and for Sidegra.

Similarly I ask for 400 MG Ibuprofen rather than some expensive brand name like Neurofen. Do I want Telfast? No. I ask him, do you have a cheap generic copy of Telfast. Would I ask for Zithromax? No. I would ask for a cheap generic Azithromycin.

There is no way that genuine Cialis pack of 4 can be obtained for 200 Baht. The manufacturer Lilly does not distribute it for prices that low. It is obviously a copy. Does not mean that it doesn't work. It probably is Tadalafil, but quality control of the dose perhaps could not be guaranteed, who knows? We don't know which country it was made in.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;1989119](EiThooms said: "Demand to see his cheaper stash of the stuff before purchasing.")

This is what I just said.[/QUOTE]
But you also said this, which is more of what I was referring to: "EihTooms, you're really overthinking this. If you asked the pharmacist all options and pricing of original and generic V / see, he would tell you. ".

And since I assure you he has alternate packages of product with the word "Cialis" on them hidden behind that tall display case and elsewhere after having just sneaked a peek of them behind his glass display case before he moved to block my view, his not revealing his stash of, presumably, "generic" Cialis right along with that one 1,900 baht box of, presumably, "original" Cialis when I asked what he had for sale was as much a word game, deception by omission and hide and seek method of securing a 1,900 baht sale instead of a 400 baht sale as any street vendor in the city plays with customers.

[QUOTE=Syzygies;1989149]No need to "demand". Just ask the right question. There is no deception or trickery. He stocks expensive originals only as a service to those that demand originals. Some weird people do. This Pharmacy has a reputation not to sell fakes.

You should know Thailand is renowned for selling fake copies of goods, with seemingly original packaging, whether it be fake Nikes, Adidas, Louis, Rolex, bad quality DVD copies, good quality DVD copies, etc. I have seen the Cialis and Viagra fake copies since 15 or more years ago at less reputable pharmacies (usually small shops) due to customer demand, which originally had slight packaging variations that could be picked. The packaging has probably been enhanced more recently. There is no easy way to tell if 250 Baht "Viagra" on the street is genuine (fell off the back of a truck) or a fake copy, however a fake copy is much more likely. So assume it really is the generic Sildenafil or Tadalafil in reality but packaged in a very good copy of the original.

If you asked for Sildenafil (scientific name of the ingredient), he probably would have shown you Sidegra brand for 200 baht rather than Viagra expensive brand. I never ever saw the genuine brands Viagra and Cialis in his shop nor knew the prices, because I never asked for them. It is that simple. I would have simply asked what is his price for Kamagra and for Sidegra.[/QUOTE]Well, we didn't demand originals. We asked if he had Cialis and Viagra. He most certainly has boxes of, presumably, generic Cialis hidden behind that tall display case with the word "Cialis" printed on them so he is definitely not above selling product that represents itself to be original when it likely is not. But he did not show us those. I didn't see his stash of generic or fake Viagra with the word "Viagra" printed on the package only because he saw I was looking into his hiding place and moved in to block it. lol.

He sells 1,900 baht presumably original Cialis to customers who don't know he has generic Cialis at a fraction of the cost and have bought into the notion that you'll either be poisoned or totally suckered if you buy the same (generic) stuff on the street for roughly the same amount as he is selling those versions for in his shop. As reported here, he sells generic Cialis for 400 baht. Well, that is roughly the same amount the street vendor will state if you point to the same box on his table. Then you can negotiate that price down to about 200 baht. Maybe you can get it down to that amount in the Bully's pharmacy we're talking about, too. Don't know.

I submit that you not only "never ever saw the genuine brands Viagra and Cialis in his shop nor knew the prices" but you also never ever saw the, presumably, generic versions of them in his shop either because he keeps all of his Viagra and Cialis product hidden behind the counter or display case instead of on display so he can slip one out selectively depending on what thinks he can get from a particular customer. I would further submit that is common practice for virtually all of the so-called "real" pharmacies in that part of Bangkok.

[QUOTE=Paolo99;1989123]I've never seen it displayed in any pharmacy. It's something that is always stored in the back of the shop or somewhere else, but never at the desk. I suspect it has something to do with the law, I'm not sure if they are allowed to sell them without prescription. The last time I took a box of Sidegra in the small pharmacy next to the big one, they pulled out a book in which I had to write down my name and sign. Last year I went in that big pharmacy and I wanted to buy some Sidegra, I was just back in Thailand and didn't know if price was same that a few month back. I weaited a few minutes but he was busy with some customers that had a very long list of medicines to ask him. So I decided to go and check the small one next door and the price was 180 baht. Then I went back to the big one and he told me that.[/QUOTE]Sorry, here is the end of my last post.

He told me that the price had just gone up and it was now 200 baht. When I told him that other places do it at 180 baht, he asked me where do they do it at that price. I told him the one next door does it and he then said "Tham leuy" with a look that showed some kind of arrogance. I did not care the 20 baht differences I wanted only one box at that time but the way he said that made me want to go and take it in the small pharma instead. So basically that means that the price they give are not negotiable at all and I'm not surprised that he try his luck by trying to sell the 1900's ones at some random guys. Later that month I went back several times in the small pharma and took a lot more of their boxes and their price was still the same.

[QUOTE=Paolo99;1989123]I've never seen it displayed in any pharmacy. It's something that is always stored in the back of the shop or somewhere else, but never at the desk.[/QUOTE]Correct almost all Pattaya "green sign" pharmacies have them but none are ever displayed in public view.

ET,

Most of us know the real price of Viagra and Cialis brands sold in Western countries (protected by patent) is very high. Only fake copies in Asia can be extremely cheap. I don't believe large quantities of genuine product can be cheap due to fell off the back of a truck, but I could be wrong. If you are offered "genuine" at a price, due to asking by brand name, it is up to you if you believe it is genuine.

There is no point to buy the expensive ones, we can agree. Generics are available at a good price, but not in all Pharmacies. Boots would not Sidegra, I believe.

I don't believe all shops in Thailand try to cheat the customer, but you have to decide which ones to trust to be honest about what product they sell to you. Very good copies are available of some products.

Doctors in Thailand supply Thai patients with pills to treat various illnesses. The patient is not well informed what medicine they are taking. This is so that when they run out, they have to see the doctor again to get some more, rather than just buy it cheaply (generics) at the Pharmacy.

Even a hospital in Thailand can supply pills to you that you could have bought much cheaper at a Pharmacy, e. G. Ibuprofen is a common one.

I found only a small percentage of Pharmacies asked me if I wanted a cheap er generic when I ordered something using a brand name. I therefore learned to always ask for generics.

Syzy, yes I believe it is well understood that there is something known as "orginal" and then there is "generic" and even "fake" product of all kinds being sold throughout the world and especially in parts of Asia / Thailand. However, I don't think anyone is arguing that the fellow who walks up to you on the street with a box of "Rolex" watches is trying to sell you bananas and not watches. They might be fake Rolexes, but they are not fake watches. They are not going to be the quality and craftsmanship of real Rolexes. But they will show the time and might well last as long and serve the same function as the most expensive watch on the planet. It would take a watch repairman less than three seconds to determine one of those is not a genuine Rolex. It might even take as little time to determine it for a layman.

But I don't believe a chemist examining and testing broken down tablets of so-called generic or even fake Cialis or Viagra sold at tables along Sukhumvit, or in that pharmacy next to Bully's where he has plenty of product with the words "Viagra" and "Cialis" printed on the packaging stored in his hiding place that was not necessarily produced by the folks at Pfizer and Lilly, that what he is looking at does not contain the same chemicals and in roughly the same dosage, buffering and dilution as the so-called "real" or "genuine" stuff.

I maintain that virtually all product that the pharmacy next to Bully's Pub sells and can be found in almost every other pharmacy in the area with the words "Viagra" and "Cialis" on the labels is likely the same product from the same suppliers the guys at the outdoor tables sell. But perhaps with some minor variation as one might even find from different batches of the same product from the same factory produced on the same day. By now it appears the product has been commoditized; sellers and customers alike have tacitly agreed the basic elements and results are the same and so now the competition for marketing and closing a sale is almost all about price and nothing else.

I doubt the Bully's pharmacist devotes a moment of his time arguing that what he routinely sells for 400 baht won't work while what he sells for 1,900 baht will. He knows it will work and work virtually the same way. Otherwise, why would such a relaxed, nice and honorable guy sell it? We know that the Bully's pharmacists and the Foodland pharmacists have no problem matching or coming very close to the prices the table vendors are asking and getting for their supplies of it even after negotiations. We have the street vendors and the customers who buy from them to thank for that very positive trend. Therefore, you're welcome! lol.

By the way, you said in a previous post that one does not negotiate price for presumably legitimate product at a department store or words to that effect. Actually, that is not quite true, especially in Thailand. I have often asked if there is a discount for clothing or electronics I am shopping for at places like Robinson's or Power Buy. The clerk will more often than you might suspect just pick up a phone, chat with a manager of some kind and, bingo, that special sale 20% discount that was supposed to have ended a month ago is back on just for you today. Same with buying two or more of something for a volume discount. Try it.

In fact, there are many ways to get discounts in well-known large retailers and department stores, even in the USA where one might least expect such a thing possible. It is done more often than most customers realize:

11 Retailers Where You Can Negotiate a Lower Price.

[URL]http://www.wisebread.com/11-retailers-where-you-can-negotiate-a-lower-price[/URL]

[QUOTE=Optional;1989032]The packaging of generic versions of Viagra and Cialis would not have the words "Viagra" or "Cialis" on them, since those are brand names. The generics have their own names. Look for Sidegra, which is the generic Thai-made version of Viagra. It is just as effective, and is, like you said, about 300-400 baht. It comes in 50 MG and 100 MG. Personally I think the 50 MG is effective enough; 100 MG is overkill.[/QUOTE]Spot on. Before Thailand launched Sidegra one could buy an import from India called Penegra. These knockoffs work just as well as the big names. It appears that Penegra is no longer available with Sidegra on the market. I did buy Sidegra once from the popular pharmacy that we are discussing. I appreciate the tip about the pharmacy in Foodland. I like to buy 100 MG and cut into thirds.

[QUOTE=Paolo99;1989123]I've never seen it displayed in any pharmacy. It's something that is always stored in the back of the shop or somewhere else, but never at the desk. I suspect it has something to do with the law, I'm not sure if they are allowed to sell them without prescription. The last time I took a box of Sidegra in the small pharmacy next to the big one, they pulled out a book in which I had to write down my name and sign. Last year I went in that big pharmacy and I wanted to buy some Sidegra, I was just back in Thailand and didn't know if price was same that a few month back. I weaited a few minutes but he was busy with some customers that had a very long list of medicines to ask him. So I decided to go and check the small one next door and the price was 180 baht. Then I went back to the big one and he told me that.[/QUOTE]I have seen boxes of Viagra and Cialis visible in glass display cases and counters in pharmacies around the Khao San Rd. area. You could point down through the glass to the box you wanted. But not in the Sukhumvit or Silom area. In one of those Khao San area pharmacies where I saw boxes of Cialis on display a couple of years ago, I asked the pharmacist if it was "original" or "generic". He assured me it was "original" and that is why he was charging 1,200 for a box of 4 tablets, the price of it a couple of years ago in that area at least. I then asked to take a closer look at the box and in the fine print it clearly stated it was "generic". I pointed that out to him and he STILL insisted it was "original".

And, hey, that guy was wearing a clean and nicely pressed white coat with a pocket protector, black and red ball point pens in it and everything!! lol

In an environment where pharmacists in real brick and mortar shops routinely play or at the very least willingly and happily go along with marketing word games, hide and seek tricks and engage in deception by omission if not deception by CO-mission or ignorance (as was the case with my Khao San Rd. area pharmacist experience above) in order to close a higher ticket sale that is virtually accepted by all not to be necessary and all while famously selling drugs over the counter that are deemed by the authorities to be "dangerous" enough to require a doctor's prescription but not if a sale for them this very minute is possible, I am surprised that folks still regard those practitioners as somehow more honorable, trust-worthy and scientifically inclined than the guy selling virtually the same product for a much more realistic price and while displaying all of it for god and everyone else to see right on his table.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;1989371] However, I don't think anyone is arguing that the fellow who walks up to you on the street with a box of "Rolex" watches is trying to sell you bananas and not watches. They might be fake Rolexes, but they are not fake watches. They are not going to be the quality and craftsmanship of real Rolexes. But they will show the time and might well last as long and serve the same function as the most expensive watch on the planet.[/QUOTE]ROFLMAO. Getting a bit ridiculous now. Fake means simply not made by the company said to have been made by. Sure, fake does not mean the product will not work at all, but quality may be questionable. Fakes medicine copies maybe reliable, who knows? Easier to buy the reliable generic non brand name.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;1989422]I have seen boxes of Viagra and Cialis visible in glass display cases and counters in pharmacies around the Khao San Rd. area. You could point down through the glass to the box you wanted. But not in the Sukhumvit or Silom area. In one of those Khao San area pharmacies where I saw boxes of Cialis on display a couple of years ago, I asked the pharmacist if it was "original" or "generic". He assured me it was "original" and that is why he was charging 1,200 for a box of 4 tablets, the price of it a couple of years ago in that area at least. I then asked to take a closer look at the box and in the fine print it clearly stated it was "generic". I pointed that out to him and he STILL insisted it was "original".[/QUOTE]I think you might be getting 'fake' Viagra confused with 'generic' Viagra. They are two different things. Fake Viagra tries to imitate the packaging of the real brand, except it's a copy. So maybe the logo will be slightly off, or the color, or something in the packaging design. Generic Viagra is the ingredient Sildenafil under a completely different brand name. Like Sidegra. On packages of Sidegra, there is no mention of the word Viagra or Pfizer at all. Because it's made by a completely different company.

I use to buy Viagra from the small pharmacy across Gulliver in Soi 5 and those pills has the light blue coloured pills I am used to. But last time I went to the pharmacy located between Soi 18 and Soi 22 (at Sukh. Road). The colour was much darker blue, never seen them this dark. Has any of you experienced the same or have any comments? To be honest I believe that the lighter blue pills works better. But that can be just "my brain" telling me so.

[QUOTE=Optional;1989488]I think you might be getting 'fake' Viagra confused with 'generic' Viagra. They are two different things. Fake Viagra tries to imitate the packaging of the real brand, except it's a copy. So maybe the logo will be slightly off, or the color, or something in the packaging design. Generic Viagra is the ingredient Sildenafil under a completely different brand name. Like Sidegra. On packages of Sidegra, there is no mention of the word Viagra or Pfizer at all. Because it's made by a completely different company.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Syzygies;1989437]Sure, fake does not mean the product will not work at all, but quality may be questionable. Fakes medicine copies maybe reliable, who knows? Easier to buy the reliable generic non brand name.[/QUOTE]This is a very good point.

I'd always opt for a reliable generic over an allegedly brand-name medicine which might not actually be what's written on the box. With the cost of genuine Viagra so high, there's way too much of an incentive to pass off something else as a genuine, and you don't know exactly what you're getting. Fortunately, Sildenafil is super cheap, so it's more of a quality control issue than a worry that they'd substitute an entirely non-functional (and perhaps harmful) substance instead.

With Sidegra, you always know exactly what you're getting, it's made in Thailand and cheap, and there's no point in faking it.

[QUOTE=Optional;1989488]I think you might be getting 'fake' Viagra confused with 'generic' Viagra. They are two different things. Fake Viagra tries to imitate the packaging of the real brand, except it's a copy. So maybe the logo will be slightly off, or the color, or something in the packaging design. Generic Viagra is the ingredient Sildenafil under a completely different brand name. Like Sidegra. On packages of Sidegra, there is no mention of the word Viagra or Pfizer at all. Because it's made by a completely different company.[/QUOTE]In the incident I cited where the Khao San Rd. area pharmacist insisted on representing a package of Cialis as "original" despite the fact that the fine print stated it was "generic", I only pointed to and handled the package labeled Cialis, not the one labeled Viagra. I was only interested in price comparing and buying Cialis. So I have no knowledge of what the fine print on the package of Viagra I saw might have revealed or what the pharmacist had to say about it.