General Info

[quote=cunning stunt]i'm afraid that you are wrong here, mate. i have seen many obviously **** girls in la cafe over the many years that i have been visiting. one day i was chatting to one of the 'mamasans' and asked about one young looking girl sitting at the next table and was astonished to be told that she was only 15! not apparently uncommon, either and they are particularly popular amongst the east asian clientele. they get in on other girls ids.

admittedly they seemed to have tightened up a little over the last couple of years particularly after they barred the worst of the mamasans.[/quote]agree with you cs. its been so bad that as you walk toward the front entrance women on the street approach you asking if you want an **** girl sir?
police setups abound in that area so i never advocate anybody taking the bait.

av

[quote=amavida]agree with you cs. its been so bad that as you walk toward the front entrance women on the street approach you asking if you want an **** girl sir?
police setups abound in that area so i never advocate anybody taking the bait.

av[/quote]concur. have literally chatted girls there who are ****, and admitted it. pm me for details.

lac was filled with female patrons (remember, they don't work for the bar) whose age ranges from in their 40's on down. how far down?

[quote=ajacobson]you raise valid points of course, also regarding the concentration of wealth and power in the hands of a few people and families. but it's easy to get carried away a little, losing perspective.

comparing the 2009/2010 forbes lists for the [url=http://www.forbes.com/lists/2010/86/philippines-10_the-philippines-40-richest_networth.html]richest filipinos[/url] and [url=http://www.forbes.com/lists/2009/54/rich-list-09_the-400-richest-americans_finalworth.html]richest americans[/url] reveals that filipino #1 henry sy would rank #24 in the us by net worth. famed lucio tan at local #2 would rank #154 in the us. rank #8 on the philippines list would already be dropped out of america's top 400. the assets of all filipinos combined on that list are about $2 billion short of half of the net worth of bill gates alone.

the [url=http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/09/the-5-best-paid-hedge-fun_n_532071.html#s79892]top 4 earning hedge fund managers[/url] in the us [u]each[/u] made more money last year alone than lucio tan's entire estimated accumulated assets (whose owner structure is furthermore totally convoluted and often disputed).

now i have to stress that these lists by nature will not necessarily be accurate. people that certainly are rich enough to qualify are omitted, especially when their source of wealth is well beyond shady. gma's government practices will easily have secured her a top-10 spot over the last decade with the bulk of the loot safely stashed away in brunei and singapore. on the other hand some of the people on there are much shorter on cash than their assumed net worth suggests and believe me some of those are greatly overvalued.

also, just like with us super-rich, the bulk of the net worth is usually tied up in company structures, stock, land, whatever. my personal impression is that in the philippines wealth is even more immobile with smaller returns on investment than in the west.

sure, these people are rich, no doubt and the feudal family ties, connections, corruption and education system ensure that it all stays concentrated in a very tight elite (with extensive family fringes). better distribution would certainly help but the idea that a big cash payout by the elite would end the country's poverty in a single swipe is doubtful.

as far as helicopters are concerned, most normal sized that i have seen landing on roof tops in makati 2007-2009 belong to lucio tan, who is a helicopter buff. i counted at least 4 different for him (check google earth, allied bank center makati has multiple helipads). the few other choppers i usually saw were of the [url=http://www.robinsonheli.com/]robinson type[/url] (regularly landing on metro bank makati for example), they [url=http://www.jameslist.com/helicopters?brand=70&order=pd]cost not much more[/url] than a fully decked (remember heavily taxed) mercedes s600.[/quote]
its all relative, in their home country the sy's & the tan's are rich beyond the dreams of avarice.

the current 'system' of wealth entrenched in a corrupt oligarchy sucks. the country is being held back while the small elite [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url] it. not good.

av

just like every third world counyty ha? the rich control and the poor sell their votes for little pesos and keep living day to day? that sucks.

[quote=amavida]its all relative, in their home country the sy's & the tan's are rich beyond the dreams of avarice.

the current 'system' of wealth entrenched in a corrupt oligarchy sucks. the country is being held back while the small elite [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url] it. not good.

av[/quote]

[QUOTE=Econo Tech]
If you had a chance to meet the types of Lucio Tan / SM Group, and Ayala group. You will know that their wealth is enough to make almost all poor filipinos live decently. But then again these are the same people who are 'helping' the nation by building housing and all stuff and making more money
[/QUOTE]
Actually, I have had that chance, and unsurprisingly, found these men to be urbane, charming, very intelligent, interesting, articulate and thus probably interchangeable with highly successful business people all over the planet. I'm not sure I understand your point. If it's that corruption and moral decay permeate every aspect of life here, I agree but I don't think it's the Ayalas and the Tans who are necessarily responsible for the rot. To the contrary, their business are among the very few engines of economic growth and jobs that exist in this country.

[QUOTE=Ajacobson]Sure, these people ARE rich, no doubt and the feudal family ties, connections, corruption and education system ensure that it all stays concentrated in a very tight elite (with extensive family fringes). Better distribution would certainly help but the idea that a big cash payout by the elite would end the country's poverty in a single swipe is doubtful.

As far as helicopters are concerned, most normal sized that I have seen landing on roof tops in Makati 2007-2009 belong to Lucio Tan, who is a helicopter buff. I counted at least 4 different for him (check Google Earth, Allied Bank Center Makati has multiple helipads). The few other choppers I usually saw were of the [url=http://www.robinsonheli.com/]Robinson type[/url] (regularly landing on Metro Bank Makati for example), they [url=http://www.jameslist.com/helicopters?brand=70&order=pd]cost not much more[/url] than a fully decked (remember heavily taxed) Mercedes S600.[/QUOTE]Well, maybe a late night rant. And I agree, I did not clean up my posting.

And as for cash handouts- that's what keeps the poor ticking. See the TV shows and all. They are just facades for handing out money, and I don't advocate giving out money. Money should be spent on better employment, industries etc.

As for the Robinsons. Nope, I have seen some amazing Dauphin's baseGEd in NAIA, with executive interior. And also a few EC 120s. And in any case, most of the aircraft owned by the rich are in and Registry and atleast 4 biz jets are regular visitors to WSSS.

GE: I too had the chance to bump into these guys, I am not blaming them or accusing them. But the way the country is run. They will not allow a new guy to step in and believe in 'a known devil is better than an unknown angel'

And going into the tentacles of the top cream of the society. They are almost everywhere, even the water you drink is never made my an SME. It is all from a Large family owned business. Even the ferries are run by some company owned by another and in turn owned by the likes of Abbotiz or Gothong.

Anyway, I also got a bit side-tracked, but I agree: if not for the types of Tan and Ayala and Sy, the country may be as good as Vietnam or even Africa. Atleast these guys maintain some sort of order in a screwed up political structure, and I wouldn't know but my take is these guys have been keeping themselves out of politics, and that does keep them away from the corrupt practices. And the best run banks are owned by the big guys. For a start.

[quote=amavida]agree with you cs. its been so bad that as you walk toward the front entrance women on the street approach you asking if you want an **** girl sir?
police setups abound in that area so i never advocate anybody taking the bait.

av[/quote]that's not inside lac. obviously they can't control what's happening outside from their premises.

[QUOTE=GoodEnough]Actually, I have had that chance, and unsurprisingly, found these men to be urbane, charming, very intelligent, interesting, articulate and thus probably interchangeable with highly successful business people all over the planet. I'm not sure I understand your point. If it's that corruption and moral decay permeate every aspect of life here, I agree but I don't think it's the Ayalas and the Tans who are necessarily responsible for the rot. To the contrary, their business are among the very few engines of economic growth and jobs that exist in this country.[/QUOTE]

I agree GE.

Just to clarify some points here, I have extracted these statistics from something I wrote a few years ago in 2005. The population is now 100 million but most of these percentages will not have changed much

Population-related factors
• In 2005, 84 million people lived in the Philippines – 2.3 – 2.7% growth per annum – 1.7 million added annually

Comparative statistics:
1971: Thailand and Philippines, similar countries in many respects, each had 38.9 million people.
2001: Thailand had 61 million, Philippines had 78 million;
Philippines had 18 million more births in 30 years
• per capita income for Thailand = USD$1,960, for Philippines = USD$750
• Around 1900, Muslims comprised 70% of Mindanao population and owned 80% of the occupied land. Today, they are less than 25% of the population

Land Reform factors
• 15 Spanish families control around 80% of all arable land in the Philippines. Most of the remainder is owned by small landholders in 10 – 25 ha parcels. They in turn lease smaller parcels of this land to other farmers for subsistence-style farming
• From this basic inequity of land ownership flows the fact that about 200 families control Philippine political life. These families, because of their wide influence, are able to resist so-called land reforms by taking legal action at a local level to annul land title grants or slashing land acquisition budgets in Congress. Alternatively, some land owners attach huge valuations to their land and are then paid these inflated prices by the Agrarian Reform Program influenced by corrupt politicians.

Rural Poor factors
• 70% of the Philippines money is circulating in the 3 major urban areas (Manila, Cebu & Davao); 30% in the rural areas
• Only 10% of the land area is occupied by the cities; 90% is the remaining rural area
• 60% (50.4 million) of the population live in metropolitan areas; 40% (33.6 million) live in the rural areas

Summary: 60% of the population with 70% of the money are living on 10% of the land OR 40% of the population with 30% of the money is living in 90% of the land.
• 90% of all rural people live below the poverty line defined as:
(no decent homes, no proper home conveniences for fitful living, no potable water in their faucets, no light in their shacks, cannot send their children to good schools, cannot buy requisite medicines for themselves)

Thanks RK. I was familiar with many of those statistics, but not all of them. I thought that the Muslim population of Mindanao at the turn of the 20th century was closer to 80%, but I guess no one really knows.Regardless of the actual percentage, it's easy to see why, as the Moros became ever more marginalized in their own territory, they became ever more resentful at the denial of economic opportunity. This is the reason for my repeated contention that the conflicts here have their etiology in economics and not religion. These guys, for the most part, aren't committed to jihad; they just want a bigger slice of the pie. Unfortunately, the experiment with autonomy has not gone at all well and the ARMM regional government is as corrupt, morally bankrupt and greedy as its analog, the national government.

There's no doubt that, for the oligarchs who essentially control all of the resources in the country, there's a strong commitment to maintaining the status quo. There's also no doubt, that with 7,000+ islands, a politically naive electorate, and a basic feudal mentality, it's difficult to create sustained, unified political action here. It's one of the reasons that I think things will never change.

I'll offer one additional statistic that underscores the last point: the Philippines spends about $200 annually, per capita on education, vs. about $1,500 for Thailand, $2,000+ for Malaysia and $1,000+ for Vietnam. US and European figures are closer to $10,000. There's simply no hope for radical improvement here any time soon.

GE

[QUOTE=GoodEnough]Actually, I have had that chance, and unsurprisingly, found these men to be urbane, charming, very intelligent, interesting, articulate and thus probably interchangeable with highly successful business people all over the planet. I'm not sure I understand your point. If it's that corruption and moral decay permeate every aspect of life here, I agree but I don't think it's the Ayalas and the Tans who are necessarily responsible for the rot. To the contrary, their business are among the very few engines of economic growth and jobs that exist in this country.[/QUOTE]My response disappeared. Anyway, I was writing something along the lines as follows:

I too had the opportunity to meet the business clique of Philippines, who are quite agile and robust, but then again, almost everything is from a large family owned company, even Mineral water is made by some connected company of a large company.

The SME's are almost non-existent. You either have the amazingly large groups or amazingly minute businesses.

Anyway, I am not blaming the Sys and Tans and Ayalas. It is thanks to them the country has atleast a decent service when it comes to Banks and essential services, malls, airlines etc. And despite their tight control, they haven't let their quality of service down. I would even add the Gokongwais to that list.

Even ferry services are controlled by some family businesses.

[QUOTE=Denom]Yes, but as you say yourself in the last couple of years they became very strict on that one. Maybe in the last four years even, so it wasn't the case at all when the raid was made. I have a friend, 26 years old and two kids already, who was refused entrance because she supposedly looked too young! Some other time a girl on the bar opposite to LAC (the pool bar that actually belonged to LAC as well) told me confidentially, as if that was a big deal, that she was "only 19"! So bad it had become. I think it was very obvious in the recent years that all the girls inside were at the very least 20+.[/QUOTE]Then again, last year a friend picked a girl there, and after doing his deed, decided to bring her to singapore and employ her as a maid .. and arranged for somebody to get her a passport, and then he got the shock of his life - she was just 16, despite her large frame and height - and she was mixed blood and my friend almost shat in his pants when I reminded the repercussion of getting caught with a minor ..

She had been carrying a fake ID - and knowing Philippines, with no control on NRIC, almost any IC works. I was checking into a local domestic flight and the passenger in front of be submitted her "professional ID" something issued by Engineers Institute - and that was accepted, as long as there is a photo, and the girl who was travelling with me to Bora just showed her SM MALL Employee ID and that was as good as Driving license of NRIC.

Welcome to Philippines :D

While any establishment can only control the age limit by IDs - with so many fake IDs, it is tough life being a Door Security in Philippines. And it is as easy to setup a scam / sting op.

There are three primary drivers of poverty.

The first is endemic corruption

The second is unstable government

The third is an ineffective land title system.

In any country, if there is one of these drivers, the country will be in poverty.

In the Philippines, all three exist.

Not much chance for salvation.

G

[QUOTE=Gangles]There are three primary drivers of poverty.

The first is endemic corruption
The second is unstable government
The third is an ineffective land title system.
In any country, if there is one of these drivers, the country will be in poverty.
In the Philippines, all three exist.
Not much chance for salvation.

G[/QUOTE]Absolutely right Gangles, its a bloody tragedy, unless you the one on top pushing the others down in which case its just fine. :)

AV

[quote=westcoast1]concur. have literally chatted girls there who are ****, and admitted it. pm me for details.

lac was filled with female patrons (remember, they don't work for the bar) whose age ranges from in their 40's on down. how far down?[/quote]im not just speaking from my experiences in the sex industry, my experiences in daily life here (not living in a gated community) indicates that prostitution is endemic here & that girls of 16 or even less frequently work.

i've had customers & acquaintances volunteer their age & line of work in passing conversation. they often seem kind of morose about it ( or are they just trying to snare you?). it's kind of a give away when a 16 year old is really well dressed & chain smoking the most expensive cigarettes but lives in the midst of an average (slum like) manila barangay.

i recently had an employee (who i know to be shagging pinoys all over town) go on line at cherry blossoms, entice an american to come over to marry her & on her wedding night scream blue bloody murder when poor chuck from chicago pulled out his shrivelled old cock for the hymen breaking ceremony (long gone i'm afraid). her age? 16!

i tried to warn this clown off before hand but when she created a ruckus in the hotel on the wedding night i really had to step in grab him & point out the finer points of filipino law. got him on a plane & out of there in a hurry.

i digress, lac is not all unique.

av

[QUOTE=Red Kilt]

Just to clarify some points here, I have extracted these statistics from something I wrote a few years ago in 2005. The population is now 100 million but most of these percentages will not have changed much

Population-related factors

• In 2005, 84 million people lived in the Philippines – 2. 3 – 2. 7% growth per annum – 1. 7 million added annually

Comparative statistics:

1971: Thailand and Philippines, similar countries in many respects, each had 38. 9 million people.

2001: Thailand had 61 million, Philippines had 78 million;

Philippines had 18 million more births in 30 years

• per capita income for Thailand = USD$1, 960, for Philippines = USD$750

• Around 1900, Muslims comprised 70% of Mindanao population and owned 80% of the occupied land. Today, they are less than 25% of the population

Land Reform factors

• 15 Spanish families control around 80% of all arable land in the Philippines. Most of the remainder is owned by small landholders in 10 – 25 ha parcels. They in turn lease smaller parcels of this land to other farmers for subsistence-style farming

• From this basic inequity of land ownership flows the fact that about 200 families control Philippine political life. These families, because of their wide influence, are able to resist so-called land reforms by taking legal action at a local level to annul land title grants or slashing land acquisition budgets in Congress. Alternatively, some land owners attach huge valuations to their land and are then paid these inflated prices by the Agrarian Reform Program influenced by corrupt politicians.

Rural Poor factors

• 70% of the Philippines money is circulating in the 3 major urban areas (Manila, Cebu & Davao); 30% in the rural areas

• Only 10% of the land area is occupied by the cities; 90% is the remaining rural area

• 60% (50. 4 million) of the population live in metropolitan areas; 40% (33. 6 million) live in the rural areas

Summary: 60% of the population with 70% of the money are living on 10% of the land OR 40% of the population with 30% of the money is living in 90% of the land.

• 90% of all rural people live below the poverty line defined as:

(no decent homes, no proper home conveniences for fitful living, no potable water in their faucets, no light in their shacks, cannot send their children to good schools, cannot buy requisite medicines for themselves)[/QUOTE]I find these numbers very interesting. And they seem believable.

However, from the many Filipinos/pinas I know (I don't mean bar girls) it seems that the PI is undergoing some what of a boom time. With the huge number of call center jobs and the number of Pinoys working overseas they feel there is more money in the country than ever. Several weeks ago I was at Fort Bonifacio. I think I counted 12 new high rises being built there. Sure a small number of families are making all of the money from owning these buildings but I have got to think that those construction workers are making more than minimum wage. I have been relayed stories of middle managers and upper managers in the call centers making wages in line with what you would see in western countries.

Of course it is not like the west but it seems to me that it is much better than "the old days. "