General Info

[QUOTE=D Cups]Yes but do pockets of non-poverty exist in certain places in the PI? [/QUOTE]

The pockets of no-poverty exist ONLY in the gated communities that exist in every city to a greater or lesser degree.
For example, in Makati there are many closed communities that cater for the 'filthy rich", with houses all 55 M php and above (Forbes Park, Urdaneta, Dasmarinas etc).
Pasig has all the Valley Verdes and Alexandra etc
Davao has Ladislawa Village.
Cebu has Maria Luisa village
and so on.
However, walk outside ANY of these gated villages (with security and boom gates on every entrance), and you will find beggars and abject poverty just outside the gates.

[QUOTE=Devils 1]I find these numbers very interesting. And they seem believable.

However, from the many Filipinos/pinas I know (I don't mean bar girls) it seems that the PI is undergoing some what of a boom time. With the huge number of call center jobs and the number of Pinoys working overseas they feel there is more money in the country than ever. Several weeks ago I was at Fort Bonifacio. I think I counted 12 new high rises being built there. Sure a small number of families are making all of the money from owning these buildings but I have got to think that those construction workers are making more than minimum wage. I have been relayed stories of middle managers and upper managers in the call centers making wages in line with what you would see in western countries.

Of course it is not like the west but it seems to me that it is much better than "the old days. "[/QUOTE]

You have to remember that there are now 100 million people in the Philippines Devils.
Your observations about The Fort are based on a very small part of the major city.
It could seem that there is a boom when you see all the condos etc being built all over Manila but you do not need to stray very far outside of ANY major city and the poverty smacks you in the face immediately.

Construction workers get the minimum wages (now close to 300 php per day). They are all unskilled laborers - in fact, I worry about the qualifications of the locally-trained "engineers" supervising all of these constructions but that is another topic.

The percentages of call center workers is minuscule compared to the overall population, and these people on the 15 - 20,000 php per month (big salary) are usually supporting whole families of 6 - 10 persons. The number of middle managers you mention are also way less than 1% of the population.

So Yes - you could be lulled into thinking there was a boom going on, but just read those figures again that I gave in another post and that you quoted. There are a few VERY VERY RICH people in the Phils and a very large number of very poor people. There is a much lower number of "middle-class" families in the Phils than most western countries.
My guess is that 10% rich; 30% middle-class; 60% poor (close to or below the poverty line).

Remember also, 90% of the poor are all rural people. They do not live in Manila, Cebu or Davao.

[QUOTE=Devils 1]I find these numbers very interesting. And they seem believable.

However, from the many Filipinos/pinas I know (I don't mean bar girls) it seems that the PI is undergoing some what of a boom time. With the huge number of call center jobs and the number of Pinoys working overseas they feel there is more money in the country than ever. Several weeks ago I was at Fort Bonifacio.[/QUOTE]The boom time is not as it could be. The propery market went through a major phase, where at one time, a property agent scolded me for being so cheapskate and not being able to commit on a 1. 3 million peso apartment. As she had loads of Filams and expat Filipinos who didn't mind putting money to buy expensive apartment. If you consider a 35, 000 US apartment as expensive.

But the worldwide economy slowed and a lot of middle class filipinos decided not to pursue the idea, when it became clear that while they can buy an apartment or house, there is no chance of them retiring considering they cannot make any money if the return back home and with so many nefarious taxes in place (BTW, not all countries allow dual citizenship.so those who give up Filipino citizenship end up worse when they realise all the costs back home doubled or tripled.)

Of late, atleast in Singapore, more than enough filipinos have forged ahead with giving up their Filipino citizenship and buy apartments not less than 400, 000 S$ and above, something that could get them a nice landed house back home.

The 'remittance' fuelled economy will run its course, from the days of sailors, it has just turned to nurses and support staff, though with more and more educated filipinos migrating, the remittance economy will not go away. My own take: the days of OFW supporting families back home are going away and the tech-med class is more keen to take their family away with them. And middle class families are rarely in the same class as those who support huge families.

As for call center staff and all. I have enough contacts in call centers. It is a glamour job so much so that while they are touted to be highly paid, as RK mentioned, just about 1% or so is on the high pay bracket. Majority of even specialists end up much lesser. About 10, 000 or so. Which is better than what they could get doing other job but.

The upper mid-class has always been there. I know enough filipinos who take annual overseas vacation, and places like Singapore, HK, Malaysia and even Europe is as the same as any westerner would travel to. Not beyond their reach. I do agree that it is growing. And with more and more of the middle class moving up. With decent salaries, I would sort of agree that some boom is going on.

A case of resentment: in the recently opened casinos in Singapore, Filipino Pit bosses. With their experience in Philippines and in Cruise Ships, are raking in 5 figure salaries, whereas the croupiers who are locals make half of that. Then again there is always the risk of the high fliers slowly replaced by natives.

It is complicated: but I would draw an anology to India. Whereas a decade ago almost every Indian wanted to be in US, now they get comparable pay so much so that many are not even happy to be away from India. And I am not kidding..

Maybe Philippines will get there. Somebody, but not so fast.

I'm going to assume that what you wrote is not exactly what you meant. I recommend a clarification.

You suggest that you are "in the sex industry" and your employee was abc age. I'm pretty sure that is not you AV.

[QUOTE=Amavida]Im not just speaking from my experiences in the sex industry, my experiences in daily life here (not living in a gated community) indicates that prostitution is endemic here & that girls of 16 or even less frequently work.

I've had customers & acquaintances volunteer their age & line of work in passing conversation. They often seem kind of morose about it ( or are they just trying to snare you?). It's kind of a give away when a 16 year old is really well dressed & chain smoking the most expensive cigarettes but lives in the midst of an average (slum like) Manila barangay.

I recently had an employee (who I know to be shagging pinoys all over town) go on line at Cherry Blossoms, entice an American to come over to marry her & on her wedding night scream blue bloody murder when poor Chuck from Chicago pulled out his shrivelled old cock for the hymen breaking ceremony (long gone I'm afraid). Her age? 16!

I tried to warn this clown off before hand but when she created a ruckus in the hotel on the wedding night I really had to step in grab him & point out the finer points of filipino law. Got him on a plane & out of there in a hurry.

I digress, LAC is not all unique.

AV[/QUOTE]

I'm not sure where anyone would get the idea that middle and senior-level managers are making anything comparable to Western salaries. The starting center for call center agent in Manila is Php18000, or less than $400 a month, which is less than someone flipping burgers in McDonald's would make in a week. Mid-level managers might get all the way to about $1,000 or so a month, with more senior levels making twice that if they're lucky. Granted, this would put the latter firmly into the upper echelons of salaried workers here in the Philippines, but it's a pittance by Western standards.

Further, as Red Kilt points out, these salaries are typically utilized to support lots of people, either in Manila or back home in the provinces. This is a country of 100 million people, with an extremely young workforce and few jobs. I don't think anyone really knows the true percentage of unemployed, but an honestly calculated rate would be huge.

It's also important to remember that call center work is reserved for the educated. Typically, call centers require at least two years of college, and the requirements for management require, I am sure, college degrees, which eliminates the vast bulk of the population. Couple this with the fact that approximately 95% of all applicants fail the call center English tests, and again, you're looking at a minuscule percentage of the population that can qualify for these admittedly abundant jobs. The major problem for call centers here is that they cannot recruit a sufficient number of people given the stringent English language requirement and the lousy work hours that require the agents to work at night, since that's when it's daylight in the West.

GE

[QUOTE=Devils 1]I find these numbers very interesting. And they seem believable.

However, from the many Filipinos/pinas I know (I don't mean bar girls) it seems that the PI is undergoing some what of a boom time. With the huge number of call center jobs and the number of Pinoys working overseas they feel there is more money in the country than ever. Several weeks ago I was at Fort Bonifacio. I think I counted 12 new high rises being built there. Sure a small number of families are making all of the money from owning these buildings but I have got to think that those construction workers are making more than minimum wage. I have been relayed stories of middle managers and upper managers in the call centers making wages in line with what you would see in western countries.

Of course it is not like the west but it seems to me that it is much better than "the old days. "[/QUOTE]RK's numbers are sound. Hanging around the fort gives a false impression. Also average filipino's are very prone to dressing 'the part' to give an impression of affluence whilst living in TINY sub standard apartments in heavily overcrowded barangay's on razor's edge budgets.

AV

[QUOTE=Red Kilt]You have to remember that there are now 100 million people in the Philippines Devils.
Your observations about The Fort are based on a very small part of the major city.
It could seem that there is a boom when you see all the condos etc being built all over Manila but you do not need to stray very far outside of ANY major city and the poverty smacks you in the face immediately.

Construction workers get the minimum wages (now close to 300 php per day). They are all unskilled laborers - in fact, I worry about the qualifications of the locally-trained "engineers" supervising all of these constructions but that is another topic.

The percentages of call center workers is minuscule compared to the overall population, and these people on the 15 - 20,000 php per month (big salary) are usually supporting whole families of 6 - 10 persons. The number of middle managers you mention are also way less than 1% of the population.

So Yes - you could be lulled into thinking there was a boom going on, but just read those figures again that I gave in another post and that you quoted. There are a few VERY VERY RICH people in the Phils and a very large number of very poor people. There is a much lower number of "middle-class" families in the Phils than most western countries.
My guess is that 10% rich; 30% middle-class; 60% poor (close to or below the poverty line).

Remember also, 90% of the poor are all rural people. They do not live in Manila, Cebu or Davao.[/QUOTE]
In spite of the poverty the Philippino people are flexible. I have not seen any malnourished people like you see in poor countries. Yes people are more poor in the villages. But they are subsistent farmers , fishermen or labourers. They do eat OK. But many homes of girls I have gone into lack the basics icluding glasses, plates etc. I beleive all the neighbours share the food and help each other.
I believe the whole problem is overpopulation that the country cannot support with corrupt politicians, lack of infrastructure, lack of industries and investment.

[quote=goodenough]it's also important to remember that call center work is reserved for the educated. typically, call centers require at least two years of college, and the requirements for management require, i am sure, college degrees, which eliminates the vast bulk of the population. couple this with the fact that approximately 95% of all applicants fail the call center english tests, and again, you're looking at a minuscule percentage of the population that can qualify for these admittedly abundant jobs. the major problem for call centers here is that they cannot recruit a sufficient number of people given the stringent english language requirement and the lousy work hours that require the agents to work at night, since that's when it's daylight in the west.

ge[/quote]
i would endorse ge's views as an ex girlfriend, a trained physiotherapist, 6 years post qualification plus other educational acccomplishments in her field who has good english has landed a job. she did this easily as the requirement for ehr to apss were hard and very few she told passed the english. fyi, ge, she was going to sit state boards but due to some "corruption" these were apparently cancelled this year - all her time in pi working to this moment buggered up by the age old problem....hence she does cc work until she can sit in 2011

she was a great physio...even got blow jobs when she looked after me at the hospital...wonderful days in saudi and she was lovely on video also :) i was her 'teacher' and she certainly passed all her exams with me :d

i know a guy who runs the centres from uk but visits and he tells me the same. language test is where many fial but rewards are high and the filipino have a good work ethic generally when they in the centre

but i also know another lady who lost her call centre job as she partied too ahrd (her words) and did not show up 3 times and now wished she could have the work back as the salary is "huge" in her words

Many, if not most of the observations posted during the past couple of days focus on life in Manila, specifically Makati and its environs. However Makati and the adjacent areas are the richest area of the Philippines and home to an extremely small percentage of the overall population. Given that the most of the richest people in the country live in this relatively circumscribed space, it's easy to get the wrong impression of the country's true state by basing generalizations on what's happening on or near this small slice of Philippine geography.

In my job, I get to travel to many of the more rural areas and small municipalities in Mindanao--areas that are much more typical of the living conditions of the average Filipino than the glass a chrome architecture of Makati. I suggest that people who have not traveled much outside of the wealthier enclaves haven't seen the real Philippines, and might not enjoy it so much if they spent their time with people struggling to survive on a dollar or two a day.

Even in Manila and other larger urban areas such as Cebu or Davao, once you get away from the gated communities and new condominiums into the "squatter" areas, where people live in tin-roofed shanties, you can get the sense of how the bulk of the population actually lives. If this is a "boom time" for the country, someone forgot to tell the majority of Filipinos of the good times.

The fact is that this is a country that ekes by largely on the "charity of strangers;" that is, the remittances sent home by OFWs who go to work in countries that actually create job surpluses. Even the call center jobs are created largely by foreign companies that invest in the off shore facilities and services. Call centers aside, this place attracts very little in the way of direct foreign investment (less, I think than Vietnam and far less than Singapore), and attracts far fewer tourists than Singapore.

GE

[QUOTE=GoodEnough]In my job, I get to travel to many of the more rural areas and small municipalities in Mindanao--areas that are much more typical of the living conditions of the average Filipino than the glass a chrome architecture of Makati. I suggest that people who have not traveled much outside of the wealthier enclaves haven't seen the real Philippines, and might not enjoy it so much if they spent their time with people struggling to survive on a dollar or two a day.

Even in Manila and other larger urban areas such as Cebu or Davao, once you get away from the gated communities and new condominiums into the "squatter" areas, where people live in tin-roofed shanties, you can get the sense of how the bulk of the population actually lives. If this is a "boom time" for the country, someone forgot to tell the majority of Filipinos of the good times.

The fact is that this is a country that ekes by largely on the "charity of strangers;" that is, the remittances sent home by OFWs who go to work in countries that actually create job surpluses. Even the call center jobs are created largely by foreign companies that invest in the off shore facilities and services. Call centers aside, this place attracts very little in the way of direct foreign investment (less, I think than Vietnam and far less than Singapore), and attracts far fewer tourists than Singapore.

GE[/QUOTE]I was visiting some girls who are working in Singapore as professional singers and dancers. Their house. In Tondo and some places in QC, Pasay, Mandalyong. And around there. Was nothing more than concrete blocks and a lot of storm water flooding marks (no kidding. There were marks and they were keeping score of the highest flood point.)

The only luxury they had was a Karaoke machine, tv and fridge. Nothing else. And Toilet was not worth mentioning.

Hence, when I am in Manila, if any of the girls want to overnight, even that means no sex, I don't mind- and if I am heading out to a day or two trip and if any girl says if she can use my apartelle. I gladly say yes. Well, it worked ok for me as the girls I am talking are the really gold hearted type, and my letting them enjoy a nice aircon sleep didn't hurt me..

Well, even Makati. Try stepping out and head to the back ends of Kalayaan and that area.

Bad news for those relying an ATM s to access funds in the Phils. Until today BPI was the only bank (unless anyone knows of any others) that did not charge a "transaction fee" for the use of foreign based ATMs. Today they added an outrageous 200P per withdrawal charge (2% on the maximum 10,000P withdrawal and of course a higher percentage on lower amounts.)

Because ATM transactions are carried out at the "commercial exchange rate" ie a very low bid/offer spread using your ATM may still be the most economical way to access cash from overseas as if you transfer a large amount and deposit in a Phil bank it will be changed at a retail ex rate which typically has a 5% spread.

I'm thinking of opening a Phil peso account, anyone sufgest which bank is best.So far I've checked BPI and Metrobank - Metrobank has a lower min balance 2000P cf 3000P and less documentation requirements.

[QUOTE=GregLondon]Bad news for those relying an ATM s to access funds in the Phils. Until today BPI was the only bank (unless anyone knows of any others) that did not charge a "transaction fee" for the use of foreign based ATMs. Today they added an outrageous 200P per withdrawal charge (2% on the maximum 10,000P withdrawal and of course a higher percentage on lower amounts.)

Because ATM transactions are carried out at the "commercial exchange rate" ie a very low bid/offer spread using your ATM may still be the most economical way to access cash from overseas as if you transfer a large amount and deposit in a Phil bank it will be changed at a retail ex rate which typically has a 5% spread.

I'm thinking of opening a Phil peso account, anyone sufgest which bank is best.So far I've checked BPI and Metrobank - Metrobank has a lower min balance 2000P cf 3000P and less documentation requirements.[/QUOTE]BPI internet banking works really well and so much easier ( and perhaps less safe ) than HSBC with its multiple sign on requirements. BPI certainly is easy once you have the account.. and as a whitey, hate to say it, but you always get to the front of the line. Maybe its thre same in Metrobank.

CS, why don't you just kill yourself...I mean from this list - not literally.

[QUOTE=Bopalula]Why don't you just go ahead and take the medication X-Wife? Most people are resistant to it initially, but find that it helps if you continue to take it.

What didn't you understand about that post? Just change your name to X-Wife so that people can see you coming.

Or do you mean Ex-Man, as in, I used to be a man but now I'm just a nagging nit-picker.

Pharmacology may be the simple answer for you. Go ahead and take the risk.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=GregLondon]Bad news for those relying an ATM s to access funds in the Phils. I'm thinking of opening a Phil peso account, anyone sufgest which bank is best.So far I've checked BPI and Metrobank - Metrobank has a lower min balance 2000P cf 3000P and less documentation requirements.[/QUOTE]
I'm no expert on banks here, but I have had an account with Metro Bank for about 6 years, and I've never had a problem. They've been efficient, honest, and fast with all of the services that I've needed. That said, I don't use their facilities very much, as for most transactions here I use a Visa debit card from a bank in the US.

GE

[QUOTE=GoodEnough]Many, if not most of the observations posted during the past couple of days focus on life in Manila, specifically Makati and its environs. However Makati and the adjacent areas are the richest area of the Philippines and home to an extremely small percentage of the overall population. Given that the most of the richest people in the country live in this relatively circumscribed space, it's easy to get the wrong impression of the country's true state by basing generalizations on what's happening on or near this small slice of Philippine geography.

[/QUOTE]

Agree...here is an excellent article from Filipino perspective from anti-pinoy site

http://antipinoy.com/philippines-a-good-place-to-do-business-for-monopolists-p-aquino-pagcor-and-protectionism/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+antipinoyworldedition+(Anti-Pinoy+:+World+Edition++:))

http://antipinoy.com/how-the-humble-cockroach-symbolises-filipinos-hopes/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+antipinoyworldedition+(Anti-Pinoy+:+World+Edition++:))

[oops ; don't know why the link URL are not highlighted...just copy and paste the above link in your browser]