American Politics

[QUOTE=Bango Cheito]
I don't relish the idea of China becoming a superpower.[/QUOTE]
There won't be any superpowers in true sense of the word. Superpowers like those during the Cold War are gone. There are too many, too powerful nations/blocks today, to let anyone truly dominate.

This decade, U.S will use India to balance growing power of China, until China runs into problems of its own. People tend to forget intense dissatisfaction among polulation in rural and coastal China. Dreadful enviroment policies (food and toy scandals), the fact that China still is dictatorship, and probability the average Chinese starts to demand human rights as his/her income rises.

[QUOTE=Cruiser D]90% of China like the FSU is a crap hole. If the world economy tanks who do you think the Chinese are going to sell their products to? Their large and strong middle class? Don’t think so – bye Chinese economy.[/quote]
So you think China and rest of the world are still alive and kicking thanks to U.S consumers? Talking about egocentricity.

First of all, U.S market, like most western markets are saturated. Most multinationals have moved to so called emerging markets for two reasons. Cheaper production costs, AND proximity to consumers. Take cell phone manufacturers as an example. Latest models are introduced first in countries like Russia, then EU, then the USA.
How many consumers are there in the USA? Total population is ~300mln. In China has middle class of 200-300mln, same goes for India. EU total population is over 500mln.

Finally, do you really think average American becomes more or less wealthy in foreseeable future?
Do you think his/her impact on global economy will increase or decrease?


[QUOTE=Cruiser D]Could China take over? No way, could a super EU country? Maybe, but how far off is that? 50 years? As the Doctor said, parity? Maybe but by looking at the players and the map I just don’t see it.[/quote]

50 years? The Same was said about everything else EU was about to undertake, inclusive the Euro currency. EU is worlds biggest economy today. Enough said. Moreover, the "global" financial crisis has hit only those European banks, who have been involved in American sub-prime credit business. Not surprisingly, British banks were most affected.


[QUOTE=Cruiser D]The only reason why the world economy hasn’t plunged into another Great Depression is because the US government is doing all it can to stave it off. Just as we saved the world’s collective ass three times in the 20th Century – my apologies to Eastern Europe and Africa. The rest of you can just send us Thank You notes.[/QUOTE]

Let me see. It couldn't be in WWI, definitely not in WWII, and when was the 3rd time? Are you sure you haven't watched "Saving Private Ryan" too many times?

I'll put in this way, you guys have some interesting views that run against conventional wisdom. The future will bear you out as prophets or crackpots. I think you can guess as to watch side of the coin I'm going with. CBGB, you already got your 15 minutes so unless you say something interesting that’s it for you.

Leeuwen, China is an export nation. What's going to happen when no one is buying their goods? And I'm not just talking about the US. The last domino to fall in this global burn out will be China..and since there is no domino to cushion their fall it will be the hardest.

Using the model of cell phone shows how little you truly understand the driving forces behind things. But have no problem at all venturing a forceful opinion about it. The reason why the latest and greatest mobile phone are introduced in Asia, then Europe and finally the US is because consumers in Asia and to a now slightly lesser extent in Europe use their mobiles the way American's use their desktop/notebooks and broadband connections. Also the US mobile market is extremely restricted by both the two major players, ATT and Verzion (partially owned by Vondaphone I believe) and the FCC.

The average American unfortunately has a huge impact on foreign markets, mostly 2nd and 3rd world. Have you ever gone shopping at the world’s largest retailer, Walmart?

The EU has been kicking around since what, 1957? Didn't become an active force until the early 90's Yeah, I think 50 years is a good time frame. Yes, you are right, the global crisis has only affected Euro banks associated with the US. Obviously you never heard of these things called 'stock markets'. Care to give us a recap of the Euro markets over the last 30 days? The EU was organized and currently stands as a trade organization. It may (will) become something more then that but it will be awhile.

Without the US the outcome of WW2 would have been markedly different, from supplying the Allies during our 'neutrality' to being the catalyst for offensive action in the ETO to almost single handed winning the PTO.

Who was a major driving force of the rebuilding of Europe after WW2? Both Allies and Axis. Who rebuilt Japan?

Who won the Cold war and kept Soviet aggression in check?

Of course as an American I also concede that we sold out Eastern Europe in Yalta in 1945 and it took us more then 40 years to correct that mistake. We have and also continue to turn a blind eye to most of Africa.

So where is the 20 dollar a barrel oil coming from? That completely contradicts most major analysts predictions for oil prices. And where is the fuel alternative CruiserD, I would love to invest in the company that ends America's oil dependence, why keep it a secret? Let me guess is its Sarah Palin's farts?? Since you are not in the Obama camp, I am guessing McCain, yet you blame W for the current state of world affairs, how exactly will Palin-McCain differ? Just because McCain said he is not W??!! But since you do not like the USA's bend over for Israel policy I doubt you are a Palin fan, she has an Israeli flag in her office in Alaska. I never knew that Alaska had a large Jewish population.
Palin looks more like a Jewish mom from Long Island than an Alaskan hockey mom. ROFLMAO.

I think America is a great country but its has a big pain in the ass to deal with, no not Iran but Israel which constantly forces us into fruitless wars and other misadventures in the Muslim world. When the US stops supporting Israel it will be a great thing for America. Right now every important US politician kisses Hebrew ass. I got nothing against Israel or Jews but they should just fight their own wars and leave us alone. I grew up around a lot of them and it really bugged me how so many proudly stated how they loved Israel yet lived in America, if I said I loved Britain and was proud of British culture, I would be accused of being a member of the Ku Klux Klan. Even more annoying is that many New York area Jews are among the most ultra liberal people you would meet, if you pick up the New York Times its the most America hating newspaper in the world, and many of their columnists are you guessed it, its kind of ironic considering that its the good old USA that has been the force that has protected the Jewish people in history. At the same time many of these loons love to talk up Europe, hello!!! The Europeans nearly wiped out Jews in the last World War, and frankly speaking most Europeans are still not exactly crazy about them.

My family traces their roots to Great Britain, and I am as American as they come, it really shocked me as a kid to find out when my dad sat down and told me that Jews not Anglosaxons run America. He was also explaining how its a good thing because he believes Jews are just more intelligent than goyim, good looking Blonde Anglos like me are just a front to make America look pretty to the world(the people do not want to see big noses LOL). I did not believe him but the events of the past eight years confirm this fact.

I already know the US was a great force in during WW2, so what is your point? I already know American consumers have a big impact on world markets, but these days the world economy is becoming more multipolar, Hank Paulson has been very multilateral in working with other nations, particularly the Europeans, Japanese, and of course China in fixing this mess, he even said the US cannot go it alone in solving this mess, we affect the world but now the world can affect us too.

[QUOTE=CBGBConnisur]
Palin looks more like a Jewish mom from Long Island than an Alaskan hockey mom. ROFLMAO.
[/QUOTE]

I totally agree. A typicall Jewish Long Island mummy.

Colin Powell will endorse Barack Obama this Sunday on Meet the Press, that will completely ruin the McCain campaign.

truth be told, mccain of '00 would be far more livable then the current one controlled largely by the rnc. but its more of the fact he can't alienate the moderate base (the ones that will likely vote for obama) so he's alienated them by all this bill ayers nonsense. the zionist nutcases that like palin, mccain has to cater too because they out number the "real fiscal" republicans.

so that leaves him trying to excite the nutcase base and they love this kind of anti-american, left leaning hate speech. they just won't say "nigga" because 80% of the white population would distance themselves in a hot second from the republican party. that's the one word they can't say this season and get away it with and they know it.

"obamabucks" not withstanding... - [url]http://www.obamabucks.net/[/url]

so with arabs/muslims being so low on the popularity list, its easy and "freely" allowed to attack them in public. who in the mainstream news media has the balls to say muslims or arabs aren't evil when middle america is so slow to understand anything intelligent????

look at projection map that cnn and msnbc use, the middle of the country is red out of ignorance if nothing else. the deep south is red as well, that's the problem with any kind of intelligent discussion in america, these people are too slow to understand anything that makes any sense and the republicans have been using race as a wedge issue since nixon ran for office, see "southern strategy".

however i largely think it won't work this time. but that hinges on a large turnout of minority and young voters; if the primaries are any indication and knowing that many voters didn't show up for michigan and florida primary elections, i'd hate to say it but the "l" word is starting to come up now (landslide).

what we now need to worry about is somebody trying to bump off obama....

if that were to happen my fellow isg'ers and for those you not in sex prison, consider yourself lucky, i'll have to find a way for everybody in my house to make it to lax and out of the country... i won't be here when the shit goes down, they rioted after mlk's death, no telling what would happen if they bumped obama off and us northcom is active if you haven't been paying attention.... police state anybody?

Using the Barack Obama is a Muslim routine is a socially acceptable way to knock him down. Hilary Clinton started it during the nomination contest. Obama still leads by seven points, but I bet if it wasn't for those Muslim accusations he would be leading by at least 10.
Usually Jewish voters are very enthusiastic towards Democrats, but they seem very cold to Obama. They were cold to Kerry as well.

[QUOTE=DJ FourMoney]
Okay but you have to remember, I don't recall anybody making $250,000 a year complaining that they pay too much tax. The truth is, most high income Americans AVOID paying taxes the best way they can, sometimes legally, sometimes NOT[/QUOTE]

Brace yourself.

There's nothing wrong with avoiding taxes. If you move from New York to Texas to avoid higher taxes that's not a crime. When you do the math remember this, we have a progressive income tax in the United States. The people who "avoid" paying taxes are the people who earn the least, the bottom 50 percent of wage earners in the US collectively pay about 4 percent of the what the government takes in each year; they pay a much smaller percent of thier income too.

Like most taxpaying Americans, I don't have a [i]big[/i] problem with a progressive income tax - I used to earn low wages myself - but if you apply an even morality to everyone who files a tax return, you can't escape that the people who are "avoiding" taxes the most are the people who contribute the least to the economy. Higher income Americans create the most decent jobs, they also pay most of the overall tax burden. Almost all of it.

How much money do you think you would need in order to create a really good paying job? Using an ISG example, say you wanted to hire Ashley Dupree or one of her friends to come over every Friday night for a year - that's around $250,000. You've got to be pulling down some respectable coin to create that kind of opportunity. When the government comes along and raises your taxes, you can not escape revisiting your budget. That's not a promising situation for Ashley. You could probably get by with half as many blow jobs a year. All the sudden, Ashley is making $125,000. That gives her something to complain about. Maybe those taxes prompt you to consider the less costly opportunites overseas.

[QUOTE=DJ FourMoney]
Germans for example go to school for free, even to become a doctor but only get paid about $35-40K a year
[/QUOTE]

"More than 12,500 German doctors are working abroad already, and 2,300 left the country in 2005 alone, according to the doctors' association, the Marburger Bund...Low salaries are one of the main reasons. Favoccia is making $2,900 a month after taxes in Duesseldorf, but at the University Hospital in Amsterdam he will earn $8,150 after deductions — and work fewer hours."

[QUOTE=George90]Israel will probably attack Iran[/QUOTE]
How would Isreal launch any conventional military attack without crossing de facto American airspace? Turkey is in NATO and the Isrealis have some kind of security arrangement with them. I'm not convinced the Turks would allow an overflight. They can fall back on Article 5 of the NATO charter, right?

Isreal can't fly over Iraq or the Persian Gulf without the Americans going along with it. Iran would treat it as an American attack. The Americans still have a lot of options with the Iranians. So, for that and a spectrum of other reasons, if Isreal decided to "go it alone" I'd figure the American would try to shoot thier planes down.

[QUOTE=Bango Cheito]....bread because everything was built for when everybody could have their own car.

I don't relish the idea of China becoming a superpower and exercising hegemony the way the US has done in the past, it would be WAY worse. But it's a very strong possibility we had all better prepare for.[/QUOTE]

Have you ever read "How Buidlings Learn: What happens after they're built" by Stewart Brand? Mostly, it's about how structures adapt through different functionalities over time. I like the McDonald's off the Jericho Turnpike on Long Island. Buildings adapt to changing times.

Comparing the United States and China in conventional great power terms is like comparing apples and oranges. China borders Pakistan. China borders North Korea. China has been involved in shooting wars with nearly all of it's neighbors over the course of the past 60 years. It has unresolved border disputes with at least three nuclear powers. Think Germany 1866-1945. The stronger it gets, the more it's neighbors are going freak out.

China has some concerning demographics, something like 20 percent more men than women. That's a big deal when your country represents a huge chunk of the global population. The odd thing that worries me about that is the prospect of all those hard-up young guys trying to get laid. It's got to amount to 100 million guys without a partner. It's not like you can let 'em all lose in Havana for the weekend.

In contrast, at it's core, the United States is insular. The last time we exchanged gunfire in any significant way with either the Canadians or Mexicans was before the American Civil War. I think we are the second largest Spanish-speaking country in the world now, or we soon will be, and that matches up nicely with our position as the second-largest English speaking country (not much point to learning Hindi or Urdu in my opinion). For the most part, we can pick and choose our fights. If CHGB is right, and it all boils down to chess, then the USA is the piece with the most dynamic energy and freedom of movement and it's likely to remain so, barring something that ends the game.

[QUOTE=Jelly Donut]Brace yourself.

There's nothing wrong with avoiding taxes. If you move from New York to Texas to avoid higher taxes that's not a crime. When you do the math remember this, we have a progressive income tax in the United States. The people who "avoid" paying taxes are the people who earn the least, the bottom 50 percent of wage earners in the US collectively pay about 4 percent of the what the government takes in each year; they pay a much smaller percent of thier income too.

Like most taxpaying Americans, I don't have a [i]big[/i] problem with a progressive income tax - I used to earn low wages myself - but if you apply an even morality to everyone who files a tax return, you can't escape that the people who are "avoiding" taxes the most are the people who contribute the least to the economy. Higher income Americans create the most decent jobs, they also pay most of the overall tax burden. Almost all of it.

How much money do you think you would need in order to create a really good paying job? Using an ISG example, say you wanted to hire Ashley Dupree or one of her friends to come over every Friday night for a year - that's around $250,000. You've got to be pulling down some respectable coin to create that kind of opportunity. When the government comes along and raises your taxes, you can not escape revisiting your budget. That's not a promising situation for Ashley. You could probably get by with half as many blow jobs a year. All the sudden, Ashley is making $125,000. That gives her something to complain about. Maybe those taxes prompt you to consider the less costly opportunites overseas.




"More than 12,500 German doctors are working abroad already, and 2,300 left the country in 2005 alone, according to the doctors' association, the Marburger Bund...Low salaries are one of the main reasons. Favoccia is making $2,900 a month after taxes in Duesseldorf, but at the University Hospital in Amsterdam he will earn $8,150 after deductions — and work fewer hours."[/QUOTE]

Okay Small Business is the largest creator of jobs in the country.... I know

But how many boats, vacations, expensive cars and McMansions do you have to own? Wait better yet, who you trying to impress???

Recently on one of the lefty shows I love, a professor/economist had interviewed several bus drivers in Sweden and several owned homes free and clear and had boats or other pleasure items.

In this country that's Unionized labor and I know personally one of my good friends has worked for Los Angeles Metro (formerly RTD) since he got out of the Army in the mid-80's. He's maxed out at $22.45 an hour, I think that's just under 40K after taxes.

What can he afford? A '07 Mitsubishi EVO9 MR - $39K

In fact both the cars he and his wife have are less than 4 years old ('04 Nissan Altima SE), but he can't afford to own a boat or take his wife out on an expensive cruise or any of this stuff Europeans generally take for granted, with 33 days of paid vacation as I found on an Expat forum of people living in The Netherlands.

Speaking of The Netherlands; One poster was trying to see if it was worth his MBA and 150K a year Investment Banker position going "Dutch" and Expats spent 5 pages worth trying to convince the guy that can't compare wages and cost to the US, you might end up disappointed.

Okay, I'll be even more honest....

I don't pay much tax, I made $25K in '06 less since then. But in California that's basically "Working Poor". My manager who makes quite a bit more cannot afford both a new car and his apartment! I made a choice after leaving truck driving, I wanted a easy to do, low stress position. I currently don't have health care and even though I rarely get sick, I'm taking a chance every time I crank up my car or run it down the drag strip.

But many Corporations don't pay tax at all! Yet have their hand out to the Government when something goes wrong - See Investment Banks, Commercial Banks and Credit Card Companies.

Castro Nieves is out on 1.5 Million dollar bail for the IRS discovering his tax shelter and there rumors that many IRL Indy Car stars are scared they might get found if Helio turns State's "Stool Pigeon". Rich people DON'T PAY taxes and just WHO is Castro Nieves creating JOBS for????

If somebody starts up their own widget factory, he gets money usually from the SBA and local banks , never mind that the money is lost about 60% of the time as that's the rate small businesses fail in the US.

Using my current employer as an example, to keep their CEO's pay at around $800K before bonuses, they have cut back on employee training, taken away the service that cleans and polishes our floors and now subjects us to increasing our responsibility in them providing health care. Can I add that starting in '07 they had a freeze on employee raises, but have been through 2 CEO's since '06.

I got a NICKLE raise in '06 and not one since then. Yet food has gone up 35% and fuel about the same rate.

Now most business owners would see a net tax increase but what impact would that have? You can find a tax cut in something else, like hiring more people, adding solar panels to your roof, yadda, yadda, yadda.

I don't have a problem with taxes that's how things get done, its also responsible for our bloated Military budget along with giving left handed people a loan to help them with college.

I get NO HELP from the State or Federal Government for ANYTHING! I guess I could get on California's State Auto Insurance Plan but I'm not complaining I spend to much on insurance....

While I can't avoid paying taxes, Rich people can, which then the Government forces the IRS on the Middle Class since they pay most of it. And you know, back before all this Republican tax cut nonsense Rich people in the 60's where not bitching about paying too much tax... They aren't complaining now.

Businesses might complain but then how come its only AARP, Medical Doctors and 70% of Americans want Single Payer Health Care which would get companies off the HOOK and they aren't jumping up and down supporting it???

[QUOTE=Cruiser D]Leeuwen, China is an export nation. What's going to happen when no one is buying their goods? [/quote]
Well, I thought I just made a point about China's domestic market. Apparently I was wrong. Let make another attempt.
America was/is an export nation too, until it's trade balance went ape. Chinese domestic market is growing every year, and China is as important to its trading partners as vice versa. Besides, without having current figures, China's trade with EU might be worth even more than with the U.S. Please, stop thinking China will somehow collaps the day America stops buying its products. Oh, and guess who holds most US dollars out there.


[QUOTE=Cruiser D]reason why the latest and greatest mobile phone are introduced in Asia, then Europe and finally the US is because consumers in Asia and to a now slightly lesser extent in Europe use their mobiles the way American's use their desktop/notebooks and broadband connections.[/quote]
Oh, but then please explain why launching 3G enabled phones in Russia, if there is almost no (if completely no-existant) 3G networks? Again, this is about saturated markets and emerging markets. Why do you think Norwegian Telenor is dominant in... Bangladesh(!)? The anwser is future customers.

Another example - This year, Russia has surpassed Germany as the most important car market in Europe. All car manufacturers fight to open production facilities in St. Petersburg. Audi sells major part of it's upper class models (A6, A8, Q7) to... Russia.



[QUOTE=Cruiser D]The average American unfortunately has a huge impact on foreign markets, mostly 2nd and 3rd world. Have you ever gone shopping at the world’s largest retailer, Walmart?[/quote]
Haha, you did my day, indeed. No, thanks God I'm not 'fortunate' to shop at Walmart. Wait, didn't Walmart try to open stores in Germany, but had to go home again, since customers 'let it down'? ;)
So, if we take Walmart or Swedish IKEA as example for indirect employers of foot chained kids working for nothing, somewhere in Pakistan, then you translate it into 'average American consumer's inpact on global economy'? Give me a break.

[QUOTE=Cruiser D]The EU was organized and currently stands as a trade organization. It may (will) become something more then that but it will be awhile.[/quote]
Who are you kidding? EU is far from only a trading block. Latest involvement in the Georgia crisis and EU summits were hardly about economy. Time to wake up.

[QUOTE=Cruiser D]Who won the Cold war and kept Soviet aggression in check?[/quote]
I guess America did all this of pure courtsey?
Look, if the U.S didn't step in in the end of WWII, Sovets would 'liberate' entire Europe and your days would be numbered, ok?
Same foreign policy was applied during the Cold War. Better to fight the enemy on foreign soil than right home in America. What allies would America have if W.Europe fell into Russian hands? The U.S would have become surrounded by Soviets. Don't forget Soviets applied, and still apply same analogy. Better to keep so called buffer states and fight proxy wars, than let the enemy on Russian soil.
The British made last payment for your 'help' in WWII just last year, if I'm not misinformed. So stop claiming nonsense of saving someone's ass.

Leeuwen, do you work for the Republican party in the US? What's up with distorting my quotes and then replying to them?

Of course some mobile companies are interested in expanding into emerging markets to get more market share and presumably make more money. What does that have to do about why the latest and greatest enabled mobile is the last to show up in the US or doesn't show up at all?

I'm sure Audi isn't selling too many cars in Russia at the moment. I wonder if the Russians know the term 'repo man' yet.

Walmart is anti labor, it's no big surprise they got the bum rush in Germany. Besides Metro - where I have shopped many a time, who bought out Walmart in Germany was/is about ten years ahead of Walmart in the way they did business with supercenters and what not. My point, which you seemingly missed, is that Walmart is the world’s biggest retailer. The EU, thanks to mostly France and Germany still have a highly protectionism market. The US, not so much. I'd be happy if the Chinese just sold their products to their emerging market, or even just that part of the world. I don't think the Chinese would be as happy. My point for China and other exporter nations in general is if the US Government set up a zero balance trade system a lot of 'emerging' economies would be in trouble.

Your mentioning of the EU and Georgia brings my point home about the EU. Isn't it Sarkozy and France who is running point on the whole Georgia thing? And he isn't doing it in the name of the EU. It made me sick to see W the clueless sitting next to Putin in Bejing when Russia was attacking Georgia.

Even if the Russians were able to defeat Germany without our supplies or the diversion of a 2nd and 3rd front. I hardly doubt they could have taken Western Europe or if they had they would have found themselves in the same position as the German, with the exception they would now be facing a foe in sole possession of nuclear bombs and B-29’s.

As for the British repaying their debt from WW2 that is hardly the full story. They repaid a 4.34 Billion dollar loan Truman gave them in 1945 at 2% interest. The 4.34 billion was twice as large as the British economy at the time. But I don't think we got anything for all the supplies and other loans. Actually if I remember correctly FDR forgave the monies owed to us by Britain for all the resources we gave them during our ‘neutrality’ when the US officially joined the war in 1941. We did get some lease rights to bases for 50 WWI destroyers in 1940.

[QUOTE=Jelly Donut]How would Isreal launch any conventional military attack without crossing de facto American airspace? Turkey is in NATO and the Isrealis have some kind of security arrangement with them. I'm not convinced the Turks would allow an overflight. They can fall back on Article 5 of the NATO charter, right?

Isreal can't fly over Iraq or the Persian Gulf without the Americans going along with it. Iran would treat it as an American attack. The Americans still have a lot of options with the Iranians. So, for that and a spectrum of other reasons, if Isreal decided to "go it alone" I'd figure the American would try to shoot thier planes down.[/QUOTE]

Well New York and Miami are defacto Israeli airspace. The US is leaving Iraq anyway.

Americans will never pull a hair on a Jewish head, you obviously have no clue about our nation's government.