Seeking Arrangements

It takes a while to read this, but it is really good.

A female Canadian law student did her Master's Thesis on Sugaring, and she really asked good questions to the ladies and explored their thinking, which involves a mindset that they are on a higher caste than an escort. Being someone who loves escorts, I disagree with that conclusion, but being someone who repeats a lot with specific escorts, I understand the benefits of getting to know someone over time.

[URL]https://curve.carleton.ca/system/files/etd/5186cf8e-fca9-4e98-8bc5-36239cf1cdf3/etd_pdf/6661a3fe8ba3152811f0f9272f783855/daly-sugarbabiesandsugardaddiesanexplorationof.pdf[/URL]

[QUOTE=Mongerer88;2454338]It takes a while to read this, but it is really good.

A female Canadian law student did her Master's Thesis on Sugaring, and she really asked good questions to the ladies and explored their thinking, which involves a mindset that they are on a higher caste than an escort. Being someone who loves escorts, I disagree with that conclusion, but being someone who repeats a lot with specific escorts, I understand the benefits of getting to know someone over time.

[URL]https://curve.carleton.ca/system/files/etd/5186cf8e-fca9-4e98-8bc5-36239cf1cdf3/etd_pdf/6661a3fe8ba3152811f0f9272f783855/daly-sugarbabiesandsugardaddiesanexplorationof.pdf[/URL][/QUOTE]Thank you. Will read through it, as you say it is a long enough book to read cover to cover. I am curious why you disagree that sugar babes are different from escorts (if it is the higher caste part you disagree with, then I am fine because I do not believe in any caste aspect to this). Not sure if you have actively use sugar babes and how those experiences were and did you think there was no difference whatsoever between hiring an escort and getting to be with a sugar babe? I have used both, and I think they are day and night apart. Not that one is better or more moral, etc, just very different. As someone who has used prostitutes extensively, I am not defensive about sugar babes nor do I "feel a need to defend their honor". Just that every thing feels very different. The amount of time it takes to snag one, the large amount of front end chat / discussion / meet and greet, the wooing, etc. The fact that I can be rejected, and I have been rejected tons of times. The fact that many sugar babes, especially the good ones have so many choices and can choose what they want, and reject all of the men if none suit their requirements. The fact that there is no preset pricing -- between sugar babes, by the same sugar with different men if she chose to be with more than one man, or even between the same sugar babe-SD combo which can change week to week. The fact that so many sugar babes do remain strictly online, or strictly platonic and still obtain a good amount of business. We can go on and on.

The Canadian sugar babe brings up the emotional side of the equation into discussion. That is a different beast altogether, but again sets SB-SD arrangement apart from a traditional escort / tute relationship. I have been strictly physical relationship type, but I know that many men engage with these girls for a variety of needs, and only a fraction of them involve sexual needs.

I would define SB-SD arrangement as one where they come together in a marketplace, and decide to form a loose contract that involves quid pro quo -- the exchanged goods and services that flow in either direction could be a variety of things, and cover a wide gamut. Each individual contract can be and usually is different.

[QUOTE=Mongerer88;2454338]It takes a while to read this, but it is really good.

A female Canadian law student did her Master's Thesis on Sugaring, and she really asked good questions to the ladies and explored their thinking, which involves a mindset that they are on a higher caste than an escort. Being someone who loves escorts, I disagree with that conclusion, but being someone who repeats a lot with specific escorts, I understand the benefits of getting to know someone over time.

[URL]https://curve.carleton.ca/system/files/etd/5186cf8e-fca9-4e98-8bc5-36239cf1cdf3/etd_pdf/6661a3fe8ba3152811f0f9272f783855/daly-sugarbabiesandsugardaddiesanexplorationof.pdf[/URL][/QUOTE]BTW, this is a very good read. I have yet to finish the whole thing. He sections related to legality of sugar dating, how LE might view this, the views of some legal scholars and practical issues involved are all fascinating to read. Thank you for forwarding this very interesting work.

I been playing with two women.

They are both educated and vegans. There is not an ounce of fat on either one. One is an Instagram influencer and a college student. I get off on her intellectually. The other is an actress who has IMDB credits.

The college student kept saying we can be friends. We can be friends until I found her number. I guaranteed her four sessions at $500 per session. She can pull out if she wants. So now it's FWB. In bed, she is inexperienced.

The actress told me she gets $600 per session from her last sugar daddy. But she also knows massage. So she comes over for $250 for two hours. She has been making out with me for the last part of the massage. She dresses sexy. She is around 30 so she just might let me fuck her one day just because she likes me. The making out became closer to heavy petting last time.

Both women are foreigners. The Eurogirl told me that she could bring Europe to me when I said that I was sad I couldn't travel to Europe this year.

So I am finding Southern California to be very expensive. But these women are quality. They can really hold a conversation. They would be interesting just to date. I think better than I found in the FKKs or in Spain. I don't get the impression that they are fucking a large multiple of guys. But they could be great actresses.

Anyway I am spending my vacation money on them. They took a while to find on Seeking. There are more than a few hookers on there at least in Southern California. I am a senior citizen so playing with young attractive intelligent women is fun.

Forgot to say -- I found it interesting that there are 7,000 sugar mommies and 100,000 male sugar babes. In contrast, there are 509 K female sugar babes and 115 K male sugar daddies. Sugar mommies really do have their pick, don't they? A ratio of 14 to 1! For us male daddies, it is only 4. 4 babes to one daddy, hehe. Also, the ratio has become worse for us over time -- in 2012, per this report, there were 22 K daddies and 205 K babes, now it is 115 K daddies and 509 K babes. I guess word has gotten out and a lot of daddies have joined the site. That said, I am not sure if this woman Sarah Daly has counted only paying subscriber daddies or all daddies. Many men simply register on the site, ogle the photos and never have the messaging ability. I would not count them if it were up to me.

I have observed that in my 4+ years, the number of babes have increased in my home city. That gives me satisfaction because I feel like I have more choices. What I do not see though is how many other men are there on the site competing with me for attention from the same girls. This study makes it clear that in fact, the ratio of men / women has become worse for us men. This is assuming that the trends in USA mimic the trends in Canada which is the basis for this thesis.

If I recall it was just a few weeks back when you were dabbling and asking advice. And now you have engaged! Bravo! And welcome to the club. It's warm and wet inside. 😋.

I wasn't being critical, I just view this entire industry as a game. Different people enjoy different aspects of the game, but I have observed over time (especially on other some other boards) that some guys seem to feel a superiority by having a successful Sugar Daddy relationship, in comparison to guys who see a tremendous number of traditional sex workers for short-time sessions. I just figure that we all enjoy different aspects of the experience and that we are all the same. No one being better than anyone else, so I can't accept that perception of superiority. A number of escorts have posted their amusement about this very topic. They have friends who are Sugar Babies who occasionally forget and make snide comments about how they don't have sex with just anyone.

I used to occasionally see a touring escort in Chicago who worked with a big agency there that offered incall and outcall. Our travel paths crossed from time to time. She was half Brazilian and half-Japanese. A cool girl and a great fuck. She lived in Las Vegas and flew to Chicago once every month or two. She was popular enough in Chicago that she saw enough guys to constitute Debbie Does Chicago. In Vegas, it was a different story. She didn't want to work too much since she had family, but she managed to get to know concierge folks at the most expensive hotels and clubs. She said she had become popular among the Japanese "whales" and she got an outrageous hourly rate when the concierge guys privately set her up for extended dates with the most select clientele. Pretty sure she didn't tell the whales that she re-enacts Debbie Does Chicago every month or two. She gave them the impression of Exclusivity that they wanted and paid for.

Limited Availability and Exclusivity are very good marketing tools. And for that matter, so is anticipation and hype. And so is the feeling of winning in a Game of Chance. I think Sugaring has all of that, and I am glad people enjoy it. We all find the aspects of The Game that gives each of us the most enjoyment. But I think it is all A Game.

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2454413]Thank you. Will read through it, as you say it is a long enough book to read cover to cover. I am curious why you disagree that sugar babes are different from escorts (if it is the higher caste part you disagree with, then I am fine because I do not believe in any caste aspect to this). Not sure if you have actively use sugar babes and how those experiences were and did you think there was no difference whatsoever between hiring an escort and getting to be with a sugar babe? I have used both, and I think they are day and night apart. Not that one is better or more moral, etc, just very different. As someone who has used prostitutes extensively, I am not defensive about sugar babes nor do I "feel a need to defend their honor". Just that every thing feels very different. The amount of time it takes to snag one, the large amount of front end chat / discussion / meet and greet, the wooing, etc. The fact that I can be rejected, and I have been rejected tons of times. The fact that many sugar babes, especially the good ones have so many choices and can choose what they want, and reject all of the men if none suit their requirements. The fact that there is no preset pricing -- between sugar babes, by the same sugar with different men if she chose to be with more than one man, or even between the same sugar babe-SD combo which can change week to week. The fact that so many sugar babes do remain strictly online, or strictly platonic and still obtain a good amount of business. We can go on and on..[/QUOTE]

I've been using SA off and on since August with mixed results. Lots of scammers. Don't ever send any money to somebody before you meet them. I drop anybody who asks for money ahead of time. Lately, lots of mediocre sex. If I wanted mediocre and unfulfilling sex there are easier venues to get it, cheaper as well. I have met one redhead who is really sweet and if she wasn't such a flake I might ask her if she wants to be a bit more. I've met another lady with a body that really turns me on, but she is really bad at sex. In fact I've been really disappointed in the quality of sex I've been finding lately.

Other things, there are a lot of Filipinas and Venezuelans who have been marking me as a favorite. Mostly they want to sell photos and videos. Not really my thing, but it's aggravating when they get all pissed off about it.

I've actually had some nice exchanges with other ladies even though we haven't gotten together. There's one in Kiev I plan to contact before my next trip there.

All in all, the quality of women seems to be going down, but the number who are getting hungry because of the shutdown has gone up. It's a bit of a tossup whether I want to meet some of them or just go to the Asian Massage place a few blocks away. I will say it looks like a good way to contact women before leaving on a trip, so overall it has been worth it.

I've been on the SA as a premium member for 3 days and already ran into SA scams. I've heard of SA for some years now and after reading this group, I got the nerve to sign up.

Webcam Scam:

One hot looking chick favorited me. Profile says she wants online only during the COVID-19 crisis. I asked if she does webcams shows and she said she does. Negotiated $60 for 30 minutes including her using toys. She asked my donation be in the form of an Amazon gift card and I give half first. I told her let's just do the show and a few hours later we connected through Skype. She said she was getting ready on her end. Asked for me to send the Amazon gift card to her first. I stalled her asking her to start the came first. She insisted. But I replied, "No dude is going to send cash before seeing you on the camera". I waited 10+ minutes but all communications stopped. Then she deleted her SA profile. Waste of maybe 1 HR total of my time from initial chat to end of Skype chat.

GAGA-HI Scam:

Got like two or three Asian chicks favorite me. Conversation is cute and sweet. But eventually they ask for you to sign up on an Asian dating website [URL]www.gagahi.com[/URL]. I'm pretty sure this is a scam and they get referral money for it.

General Suspicious Behavior:

Hot girls that just signed up to SA the same day or days prior add me to their favorites. They can be all over the world too. I won't even entertain them now having learned my lesson.

Thanks so much for your report. You're a new SA Sugar Daddy and already getting all this hot action? Congrats. I've started 3 days and already bummed out. I'm up in and. Cal.

I would definitely give $600 PPM for this hot SB. Check out that ass!

[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmh62d6XD7[/URL]

[QUOTE=BigBossMan;2454423]I been playing with two women.

They are both educated and vegans. There is not an ounce of fat on either one. One is an Instagram influencer and a college student. I get off on her intellectually. The other is an actress who has IMDB credits.

The college student kept saying we can be friends. We can be friends until I found her number. I guaranteed her four sessions at $500 per session. She can pull out if she wants. So now it's FWB. In bed, she is inexperienced.

The actress told me she gets $600 per session from her last sugar daddy. But she also knows massage. So she comes over for $250 for two hours. She has been making out with me for the last part of the massage. She dresses sexy. She is around 30 so she just might let me fuck her one day just because she likes me. The making out became closer to heavy petting last time.

Both women are foreigners. The Eurogirl told me that she could bring Europe to me when I said that I was sad I couldn't travel to Europe this year.

So I am finding Southern California to be very expensive. But these women are quality. They can really hold a conversation. They would be interesting just to date. I think better than I found in the FKKs or in Spain. I don't get the impression that they are fucking a large multiple of guys. But they could be great actresses..[/QUOTE]

Thanks for posting this. I like reading this stuff. I just finished skimming the whole thing. However, I was a bit disappointed with the thesis, but not because it wasn't a good thesis (I thought it was very good, but good from an academic criteria), but because I didn't learn that much from it. Most of it is academic, meaning that it presents a lot of statistics (some flawed, but I won't bother going into details on this) and the discussions were largely theoretical (I know this is typical for an academic thesis, but for self-serving reasons I was hoping to learn something practical and useful). As for the analyses, it is based on a textual analysis of the forums on SA and supplemented by interviews with 2 SBs. For anyone that does research, it is well known that interviewing only 2 people is too small a sample, which is obvious, BUT, more importantly, there is also a major self-selection bias problem (I. E. , we are only getting the insights from 2 SBs that would volunteer to be interviewed, and so we are not getting insights from a representative random population of SBs, which would obviously be more meaningful and insightful). So, for me, I actually learned more about SA on this ISG thread, and from my own discussions with the SBs that I met and am still friends with.

[QUOTE=Mongerer88;2454338]It takes a while to read this, but it is really good.

A female Canadian law student did her Master's Thesis on Sugaring, and she really asked good questions to the ladies and explored their thinking, which involves a mindset that they are on a higher caste than an escort. Being someone who loves escorts, I disagree with that conclusion, but being someone who repeats a lot with specific escorts, I understand the benefits of getting to know someone over time.

[URL]https://curve.carleton.ca/system/files/etd/5186cf8e-fca9-4e98-8bc5-36239cf1cdf3/etd_pdf/6661a3fe8ba3152811f0f9272f783855/daly-sugarbabiesandsugardaddiesanexplorationof.pdf[/URL][/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Mongerer88;2454441]I wasn't being critical, I just view this entire industry as a game. Different people enjoy different aspects of the game, but I have observed over time (especially on other some other boards) that some guys seem to feel a superiority by having a successful Sugar Daddy relationship, in comparison to guys who see a tremendous number of traditional sex workers for short-time sessions. I just figure that we all enjoy different aspects of the experience and that we are all the same. No one being better than anyone else, so I can't accept that perception of superiority. A number of escorts have posted their amusement about this very topic. They have friends who are Sugar Babies who occasionally forget and make snide comments about how they don't have sex with just anyone.

I used to occasionally see a touring escort in Chicago who worked with a big agency there that offered incall and outcall. Our travel paths crossed from time to time. She was half Brazilian and half-Japanese. A cool girl and a great fuck. She lived in Las Vegas and flew to Chicago once every month or two. She was popular enough in Chicago that she saw enough guys to constitute Debbie Does Chicago. In Vegas, it was a different story..[/QUOTE]Yes, I agree with pretty much all you said. If a girl can create a feeling of luxury and exclusivity, the price hike can be considerable. I have seen you post on German FKK threads, so you know this. Prices in Swiss clubs are nearly 2 to 3 times the prices in German clubs. A number of girls have a rotating door between Germany and SUI, and some guys patronize both sets of clubs. I can understand why you would pay 150 for the same girl in Swiss clubs if you could fuck her for 50 in DE. If it is that you just happened to be in SUI for a couple of days for business and don't care about excess price, then that is fine but we are talking about sex tourists who intentionally fly to Swiss clubs seeking out some specific girls who used t work in DE clubs. I find that irrational.

I have occasionally looked into escorting with porn stars. But I can't justify their price tags, which are 4 to 6 times what I pay to a normal sugar babe who is just as good looking. From the POV of a porn star, she went into porn precisely because she can get her name out and command a large premium. But I refuse to pay such a premium.

As for guys feeling superior about sugar babes vs escorts. That is something to be ignored. Human beings always have a need for self affirmation. Whatever it is that they do, they feel that is superior, better. I think we should cut people some slack and let them feel better about themselves if it causes no harm to anyone else.

[QUOTE=Wupoer;2454469]I've been on the SA as a premium member for 3 days and already ran into SA scams. I've heard of SA for some years now and after reading this group, I got the nerve to sign up.

Webcam Scam:

One hot looking chick favorited me. Profile says she wants online only during the COVID-19 crisis. I asked if she does webcams shows and she said she does. Negotiated $60 for 30 minutes including her using toys. She asked my donation be in the form of an Amazon gift card and I give half first. I told her let's just do the show and a few hours later we connected through Skype. She said she was getting ready on her end. Asked for me to send the Amazon gift card to her first. I stalled her asking her to start the came first. She insisted. But I replied, "No dude is going to send cash before seeing you on the camera". I waited 10+ minutes but all communications stopped. Then she deleted her SA profile. Waste of maybe 1 HR total of my time from initial chat to end of Skype chat.

GAGA-HI Scam:

Got like two or three Asian chicks favorite me. Conversation is cute and sweet. But eventually they ask for you to sign up on an Asian dating website [URL]www.gagahi.com[/URL]. I'm pretty sure this is a scam and they get referral money for it.

General Suspicious Behavior:

Hot girls that just signed up to SA the same day or days prior add me to their favorites. They can be all over the world too. I won't even entertain them now having learned my lesson.[/QUOTE]Simple rule. Ignore anyone who favorites you. Don't respond. Just delete the chat. Any girl worth being with will NOT be pursuing you. You make the first move and ignore all who come to you first.

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2454574]Yes, I agree with pretty much all you said. If a girl can create a feeling of luxury and exclusivity, the price hike can be considerable. I have seen you post on German FKK threads, so you know this. Prices in Swiss clubs are nearly 2 to 3 times the prices in German clubs. A number of girls have a rotating door between Germany and SUI, and some guys patronize both sets of clubs. I can understand why you would pay 150 for the same girl in Swiss clubs if you could fuck her for 50 in DE. If it is that you just happened to be in SUI for a couple of days for business and don't care about excess price, then that is fine but we are talking about sex tourists who intentionally fly to Swiss clubs seeking out some specific girls who used t work in DE clubs. I find that irrational.

I have occasionally looked into escorting with porn stars. But I can't justify their price tags, which are 4 to 6 times what I pay to a normal sugar babe who is just as good looking. From the POV of a porn star, she went into porn precisely because she can get her name out and command a large premium. But I refuse to pay such a premium.

As for guys feeling superior about sugar babes vs escorts. That is something to be ignored. Human beings always have a need for self affirmation. Whatever it is that they do, they feel that is superior, better. I think we should cut people some slack and let them feel better about themselves if it causes no harm to anyone else.[/QUOTE]Haha there is even a level above this. Japanese Nanpa / POA. These guys have some amazing tips and techniques on how to close the deal. And I've found these useful on occasion— like the girl in Vegas who said "I can't sleep with a guy I just met" and yet we were fucking 20 minutes later. LOL. But I digress. Point is sometimes I participate in their forum because I find it interesting. But I invariably get looked down on because SB is cheating and real men never pay. LOL. Okay if that makes you feel better. Meanwhile I will use my $$ to every advantage I can!

[QUOTE=Wupoer;2454471]Thanks so much for your report. You're a new SA Sugar Daddy and already getting all this hot action? Congrats. I've started 3 days and already bummed out. I'm up in and. Cal.

I would definitely give $600 PPM for this hot SB. Check out that ass!

[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmh62d6XD7[/URL][/QUOTE]It took more than three days. The younger woman met me then we went back and forth for about three weeks. She just wanted to be friends. I did not want to be engaged in a bunch of tease. I recommend watching the movie "That Obscure Object of Desire" to show what tease can do to a man.

Then I found a number she was willing to do FWB. But even she then pushed for $600. I sense she is a little short of cash right now. We will see how the second meeting goes. Maybe the sex will get better as she becomes more comfortable. I am also using the technique of paying her on Monday morning so it doesn't feel as transactional. She could ghost me and keep the $500. I am trying to build trust and the friendship part which seems important to her.

The older one was not going to her page on Seeking but then she saw that I liked her after about three weeks. She seems a little more sensual.

It is almost unfortunate that two shook out at the same time because now I will be over budget for June. I might have to drop one in July. I have not perfected anything yet.