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[QUOTE=Franciscass;2085400].
My position is there is an acceptable price for working in 7-11 and an acceptable price for what he wanted. They are not the same and he fell far short of what he should have paid namely the 1000 baht she asked for.
[/QUOTE]Let the people involved decide what is acceptable for themselves. Maybe the woman desperately needed the 500 baht.
[QUOTE=Franciscass;2085400]Yes 500 baht is more than some workers make in Bangkok. So what, that is not the issue here.
...While respecting different points of view, I'm sorry but I find what he did was exploitative and he took advantage of the desperation of a 23 year old...[/QUOTE]I disagree. This is a free and competitive system at work.
One time in Pattaya, I wanted to take a FL after lunch and when I asked her how much she wanted, she replied 500. It turned out she was a bit older and she mentioned that she was out there since 11 am and I was her first customer, around 2 pm. Then, I understood why she was shooting so low. She was GND in looks but had a fine body. I was so impressed later with her performance that I gave her another 500 bahts tip.
[QUOTE=Syzygies;2085347]I think your blood boils a little too easily. Guys post plenty of annoying provocative exaggerated things on here. Stay cool man.
Don't expect only nice posts.[/QUOTE]Thank you. With over 10,000 posts to your name, I think you have seen plenty of annoying provocative and exaggerated things. Your advice is well received.
The "brings my blood to boil" comment was a direct reference to BKKDOGs comment which has since been modified by Admin.
[QUOTE=Franciscass;2085400]My position is there is an acceptable price for working in 7-11 and an acceptable price for what he wanted. They are not the same and he fell far short of what he should have paid namely the 1000 baht she asked for.
Obviously from the posts some members believe this to be perfectly acceptable may even applaud his finding somebody for 500 baht arguing that there was no coercion and she made more than working a shift at 7-11.[/QUOTE]IMO it is all relative. I take my points of comparison from my home (USA) market, 7-11 (minimum wage) shift work, and a buddy who plays the low end US Backpage game:
Thailand: minimum wage 300 baht, practical daily wage 500 baht.
USA: minimum wage ($8. 25 x 8) = $66, practical daily wage ($10.00 x 8) = $80.
He gets FS P4 P in the $80 range all the time, especially when he repeats, after establishing he is not LE and a decent guy. These are not crack hoe's either just not the creme of the crop. The difference in Thailand is you get more time and activities for your money, which is kind of true at all price levels.
SL.
[QUOTE=Franciscass;2085400]Yes 500 baht is more than some workers make in Bangkok. So what, that is not the issue here.
This guy sets out with 500 baht in his pocket, looking for a "BBBJ Rimjob DATY come with facial session" without having even the price of the short time room. That's the issue.
My position is there is an acceptable price for working in 7-11 and an acceptable price for what he wanted. They are not the same and he fell far short of what he should have paid namely the 1000 baht she asked for.
Obviously from the posts some members believe this to be perfectly acceptable may even applaud his finding somebody for 500 baht arguing that there was no coercion and she made more than working a shift at 7-11.
While respecting different points of view, I'm sorry but I find what he did was exploitative and he took advantage of the desperation of a 23 year old.
My advice to the gentleman in question is put it back in your trousers for a few days, save your daily allowance and pay whatever girl you go with a fair and reasonable fee for her time.[/QUOTE]If you want an example of exploitation lets start with the massage shops. No salary, commission and tips only so no customers, no income and they have to sit there for 10-12 hours a day. Add in the 200 baht a day they have to pay the shop for the privilege of working there plus transportation costs and they can easily be in the hole for 400-500 baht. I know ladies that have gone 4 days without a customer and ended up paying out 2000 baht for 48 hours of their time. Thats exploitation.
[QUOTE=Soroche;2085835]If you want an example of exploitation lets start with the massage shops. No salary, commission and tips only so no customers, no income and they have to sit there for 10-12 hours a day. Add in the 200 baht a day they have to pay the shop for the privilege of working there plus transportation costs and they can easily be in the hole for 400-500 baht. I know ladies that have gone 4 days without a customer and ended up paying out 2000 baht for 48 hours of their time. Thats exploitation.[/QUOTE]Not saying it doesn't happen?
I can't speak for Bangkok, but do venture to two regular shops whenever I'm visiting. I've lived in Pattaya for over 10 years in which I do know from my experience knowing a number of massage owners and even more workers. Over ten years, I religiously do 3 or more Thai / Foot massage a week without missing a beat.
In all those years never heard from any Thai working under those conditions? Usually, the workers get a 50/50 take on the massage and keep all the tips. Never have I heard a worker having to pay a shop to work to be able to work in one. The only time I've heard workers paying are girls working in Beer Bar on salary which when they don't just show up have to pay a fine, even if it happen I can understand why a employer would place such a rule since workers are notorious for just not showing up, and if you are trying to run a business and a worker just decides not to show up how long is that business going to last? As for a massage shop I've heard it happen if a customers wants to take the girl somewhere for the day, the massage loses the worker therefore I understand if they want some compensation.
I've not seen any massage worker not having a choice to leave the shop because they don't like the condition. Having to pay their own transportation is common in general everywhere in the world. If girls are working a shop with no customers for days unless force happened to have made the wrong choice.
[QUOTE=Mogwai;2080386]My link works if you remove the space after '[URL]http://www.pattayatalk.com/[/URL]' when you have copy pasted it. I could not write the link in one line because the forum software messed it up.
Your picture is quite small but I would say she is just a normal dancer and not a coyote. But like I said: sometimes the lines are blurred.[/QUOTE]I've been browsing through [URL]pattypatty.com[/URL] and to be honest, it's more informative than any other website. What kind of action can I come across in Thai? I've heard that everything is amazing in such places.
[QUOTE=Soroche;2085835]If you want an example of exploitation lets start with the massage shops. No salary, commission and tips only so no customers, no income and they have to sit there for 10-12 hours a day. Add in the 200 baht a day they have to pay the shop for the privilege of working there plus transportation costs and they can easily be in the hole for 400-500 baht. I know ladies that have gone 4 days without a customer and ended up paying out 2000 baht for 48 hours of their time. Thats exploitation.[/QUOTE]I wasn't aware that girls paid a fee to work to the shop.
At so called oilies when the total fee is paid upfront they get the P4 P portion usually 1500 sometimes less. Where the massage fee is separate from the session fee usually the shop keeps all of the massage fee while the girl is paid separately by the customer.
As to what constitutes exploitation, this is difficult to define and entirely subjective. As evidenced by the earlier conversation on the guy who paid 500 Baht some thought this was perfectly acceptable, market forces, comparison to minimum wage rates, freedom of choice etc being used to justify what he did while some like myself thought otherwise.
At the end of the day it comes down to an individual's values, what one believes are the norms for common decency and here there are no absolutes.
[QUOTE=LittleBigMan;2085982]Not saying it doesn't happen?
I can't speak for Bangkok, but do venture to two regular shops whenever I'm visiting. I've lived in Pattaya for over 10 years in which I do know from my experience knowing a number of massage owners and even more workers. Over ten years, I religiously do 3 or more Thai / Foot massage a week without missing a beat.
In all those years never heard from any Thai working under those conditions? Usually, the workers get a 50/50 take on the massage and keep all the tips. Never have I heard a worker having to pay a shop to work to be able to work in one. The only time I've heard workers paying are girls working in Beer Bar on salary which when they don't just show up have to pay a fine, even if it happen I can understand why a employer would place such a rule since workers are notorious for just not showing up, and if you are trying to run a business and a worker just decides not to show up how long is that business going to last? As for a massage shop I've heard it happen if a customers wants to take the girl somewhere for the day, the massage loses the worker therefore I understand if they want some compensation.
I've not seen any massage worker not having a choice to leave the shop because they don't like the condition. Having to pay their own transportation is common in general everywhere in the world. If girls are working a shop with no customers for days unless force happened to have made the wrong choice.[/QUOTE]I'm not talking about shops where you go to get a traditional Thai massage or a foot massage like Healthland. I'm talking about Tulip, Mango, SW and similar shops that provide sex which is the focal point of this site.
Here is what is expected of ladies working at Tulip massage. 200 baht fee to the shop every day plus an additional 200 for each customer. The shop charges 1900/1 hour and 2300/2 hours. 1500 of that is for the service minus the 200 customer fee. That leaves 1300 for the lady and essentially they get no more for working 2 hours than 1. For an outcall (2 hours) the charge is 3000 with 1000 to the shop and 2000 to the lady. If they miss a day its a 3000 fine during the week and 5000 on the weekend. If they are late or want to go home early its 1000. They pay for all the supplies such as condoms, tissues, soap, lube and oils. They work 1 pm-midnight or 10 am to 11 pm and cannot leave the shop for any reason. Food has to be delivered to the shop or purchased by the mae baan. The really unattractive and undisciplined ladies get weeded out quickly because they make little or no money. However, for the attractive, disciplined and skilled ladies with repeat customers the job can pay well and that is why they put up with these conditions. Some can make 120-130 k each month but I suspect the average is far lower. The go go bars which pay a salary have a different set of rules but are also quite mercenary in controlling the ladies via fines and quotas.
[QUOTE=Bkkdog;2083630]
A. Where are you now?
B. My room.
A. Do you want to come my room?
B. How much will you give me?
A. How much do you want?
Be. 2,500 Baht ST.
A. Ok.
B. When do you want to see me?
A. Now.
B. Where do you stay?
30 minutes later, little 20 year old Da Da was in my bed. What a site. She brought her university uniform to model for me. What a true GFE. Multiple positions, very vocal, a lot of DFK, and no mention of a cover. Natural C cups, beautiful tanned skin, decent English skills, just a real sweetheart. We banged for a good 90 minutes. She rode cowgirl like a champ and she's multi orgasmic so for those of you who think TF is a waste of time, please remember these main points.
[/QUOTE]Forgive me for reading this quickly. I live in Saigon and am American running a "location independent" company.
And as an aside, anyone that wants to talk to me, I'll tell you 110% the scene here in Saigon if you can intro me to some hot FL in BKK.
I like you're style and description of experience. Most of the girls I bone here are not FL, and I don't want to insult them by "presuming" on tinder or a date site that they are. 2-3 dates and the girls here may blow you're mind, BUT the are not same same as BKK. Here it's not so much about p4 p, although that is no tough if you know where to go.
How do you break the ice to see if they are into P4 P? I'm coming in 2 months and need to start talking to girls in BKK online. What's the best way to find the truly FL girls that have a day job WITHOUT insulting those that just want to date: I really don't like to disrespect women.
Thanks,
WL.
[QUOTE=Soroche;2086047]I'm not talking about shops where you go to get a traditional Thai massage or a foot massage like Healthland. I'm talking about Tulip, Mango, SW and similar shops that provide sex which is the focal point of this site.
Here is what is expected of ladies working at Tulip massage. 200 baht fee to the shop every day plus an additional 200 for each customer. The shop charges 1900/1 hour and 2300/2 hours. 1500 of that is for the service minus the 200 customer fee. That leaves 1300 for the lady and essentially they get no more for working 2 hours than 1. For an outcall (2 hours) the charge is 3000 with 1000 to the shop and 2000 to the lady. If they miss a day its a 3000 fine during the week and 5000 on the weekend. If they are late or want to go home early its 1000. They pay for all the supplies such as condoms, tissues, soap, lube and oils. They work 1 pm-midnight or 10 am to 11 pm and cannot leave the shop for any reason. Food has to be delivered to the shop or purchased by the mae baan. The really unattractive and undisciplined ladies get weeded out quickly because they make little or no money. However, for the attractive, disciplined and skilled ladies with repeat customers the job can pay well and that is why they put up with these conditions. Some can make 120-130 k each month but I suspect the average is far lower. The go go bars which pay a salary have a different set of rules but are also quite mercenary in controlling the ladies via fines and quotas.[/QUOTE]Point well taken not taking any particular side but these women have a choice. Since you sight Tulip, in the past I've known a few girls personally all have left the business but they do have choices. The shop imposes these rules strict as they maybe so they can run a business. They have to have control over the staff so they can staff a business thus serve their customers this is the same as a Go Go. From my experience Thai girls not saying their reasons aren't important but are notorious for not showing up for work or even calling. It happens but saying it is mercenary is a bit of a stretch? If you were a owner knowing full well girls are coming and going freely to a point you have no idea who is working on a given day what would you do?
[QUOTE=Syzygies;2075732]Believe if you will, it is not so ridiculous, and I don't bother to make up stories.
First I decided to go to Emmanuelle looking for Yok B01. I had first done her approx. 2008. Big natural tits. Rather quirky girl, likes alcohol a lot, once went to the Emmanuelle Christmas party with her (many years ago). She dances good.
Yok doesn't work any more. Possibly mid to late 30's. Sells stuff now they say. I should have taken her a few months ago last opportunity. Anyhow I was considering a dark skinned older B course girl (body massage) when I spotted S06 absolutely stunning face for me. When she stood up I could see was skinny (perfect for me). Naked in the bath she was simply stunning. Faai was the most beautiful girl (my taste) I had been with sexually in a long time. Very slim legs but ass still had plenty of meat for padding. A cups natural no sag. Face perfect. A nose job but so subtle as undetectable. An extremely good one. Normally I can pick nose jobs but not this one. I truly did not know.
Faai had one parent from Chiang Rai, giving her light skin and one from Kalasin (Issan). She was just stunning for me and could not find a fault when nude.
However aged 21. She claimed 3 years experience, but seemed to have learned nothing. Kissing not allowed on the mouth. In the bath did nothing sexy at all. Like no bath skills. On the bed, I gave her DATY and she built to orgasm in medium time, not very slow at all. I was only semi hard. Not that long since my last really great fuck (with a regular). Normally I rely on sexy kissing to get me up, but she is not kissing so I requested a BJ. She shook her head. No. Her hand on my dick was extremely unskilful and not working. I had to slowly wank myself up while fingering her pussy (which was resisted somewhat) to get it up and get a condom on. Her pussy was pretty tight and I had some difficulties due to starting off not rock hard after getting the condom on. In the end I did not get it working perfectly and no cum. Later she admitted that she can do CBJ. Why didn't she say that in first place. So gave a moderate CBJ scores just 5 out of 10 if generous.
Overall assessment: The most stunning girl I have fucked for a while (my skinny taste). Face very beautiful. Small tits but nice. Pretty pussy. Enjoyable DATY. Skills very poor for supposedly 3 years experience. Perhaps other guys can enjoy her despite lack of a GFE. Maybe I would have been rock hard if no recent fucks. Repeat: Unlikely. Price 3700 wasted. Crazy yes! Beauty does not guarantee skills. She probably appreciates small dick and was surprised a Farang chose her. Soapy girl told me that making her cum, caused her to be excessively lazy. How would I know that in advance?
I decided to go to Soi Cowboy and went in Sharks. I was surprised Pat was available as was getting up to 11 PM. Another guy gave her a 100 Baht tip while she was dancing which made me fear competition, but apparently he was well known to extent he may have had something to do with the management or a very long term regular customer.
Pat worked at Suzie Wong for 3 years and so was aware I was a regular of her sister Knot. Knot (I spell it my own way LOL) has settled down with a boyfriend and not doing P4 P any more. I suggested to Pat that perhaps she could take her sister's place and she was okay With that. So bought her a drink and BFed her before her next dance set came around. Her price was not discussed. Some Japanese customers had been interested in her, but apparently they BF her less than Farangs do. Maybe they know she is a mother and does not have the tightest pussy in the place, or skin a bit tanned, or just not delicate enough. In fact she can take bigger dick well. I see Japanese BFing a lot of LBs in the modern day. LOL and taking them to Asoke Place ST Hotel to fuck on the sly.
Pat kissed quite nicely so I knew a GFE could be had. So took Pat for ST. Very nice session. All the kissing I needed, and very nice BBBJ too. She responded very positively to the DATY. Maybe her pussy is a bit too accommodating for some guys but very pretty. She was very nice in the shower to make me feel special, helping to wash me like in the best MPs. Did not get to BJ in the shower but otherwise excellent. Great BBBJ on the bed scores at least 7. I got to realise that although her tits are enhanced and very heavy indeed, they are very soft on top, so it is very hard to detect any silicone deep down other then the sheer weight of her D cups. The softest tit job I ever found. She had pretty good tits before they were enhanced. So now her tits still bounce around, shimmer and jiggle just like 100% real tits. Just that they are very big. I am not normally a tit man but can enjoy big soft heavy tits.
So everything was very good and I loved the soft feel of the pussy. Finished in doggy position. I was slow but no complaints at all. On the way back I was undecided what to do. She suggested we go into Suzie Wong (the dead bar) and shout a drink for Yao, a waitress I have known since early 2000's. I am a nice guy so I agreed. Cannot hurt. I only know well 3 staff members in Suzie W remaining, make it 4 when Oar (waitress) showed up along with mamasan Tuktaa, and waitresses Yao and Joy. I ended up ordering tequilas all round for girls I knew and myself and Pat had a beer. Expensive. Pat was not making specially big money herself, but she had the good heart to go help out her old friends in a quiet Suzie W bar. I even bought a drink for Yao's husband who used to work in Sheba many years back when they had good rock music in there.
Not only that, but Pat had skilfully honed in on my weakness. She kept on giving me the very best tongue kisses that puts me into the mood to have fun and enjoy. I never met other girls that found my weakness so quickly. Hence in the end, I spent far more money than otherwise intended. Would not do for a budget.
Pat knows exactly how to get me with the DFK kissing, which is excellent despite her braces, and her enhanced but very soft bouncy big tits are amazing to play with. I did not notice any baby stretch marks but if you need extra tight pussy, I would advise against Pat. Otherwise she can be a great GFE, (even better kissing than her sister was in former times). I knew she manipulating me through super kissing but I could not want it to stop.
Pat has no problems to meet her monthly drinks and BF quota, as is popular. Salary at Sharks 18000 per month which I thought was excellent. This is why they have some good looking girls. Pat is a very skilful bargirl in that she understands about trying to give the customer the best time possible which makes the customer like me, happy to spend more than normal. I asked Pat how many BFs she can do per night. She admitted to being lazy and content with only 1 or two occasionally. She says she prefers to have fun rather than be diligent like another former Suzie W girl was who had several STs per night. Pat also pointed out that if she gives energy to the sex session, she might start to get lazy, especially after a cum. So Pat is only in Sharks 3 weeks, not yet a super star, as only a few of her old Suzie customers know where to find her.
After exiting Suzie W where several staff had been made happy, Pat was diligent to escort me to my taxi. Don't recall many girls who seek to look after the customer so well. I will be missing her tongue, pretty pussy, and heavy Dcups.
What a contrast between the stunning but crap service Soapy girl and the moderately good looking bargirl with big bazookas who concentrated on doing her utmost to make the customer happy. I don't often find a great Soapy girl, but fluke a good value one occasionally (not today).
Pat was as good as her older sister on the bed, but even better for the kissing. I can see how she hooks her regulars. Add 1 to my very short regular girls list.
Sorry if my English is a bit off. I got slightly inebriated in Suzie after the fuck. Not so much that I can't type reasonably O.K., so only slight. Maybe can detect repetition of thoughts.
Sorry no clue if Pat does ass fucking or multiple shots. Probably unlikely. I did not even ask if she does CIM, as I prefer pussy. Its all about GFE. I try to be good for the girl and she tries to be as good as she can for me.
Dangerous these girls who try to send the customer into bliss. Equally good or better service girls do exist in the MPs, but hard to find with equivalent face and body looks. I just try to be very fair. An MP fuck is cheaper because I don't go into party mode, just not many memorable MP visits over the last year.[/QUOTE]Is this Faai the girl you are talking about? She works at emannuelle but when I saw her, her number was S24. But she has pretty much the same specs you said, and also 1 parent from Chiang Rai and 1 from Issaan.
[QUOTE=LittleBigMan;2086300]Point well taken not taking any particular side but these women have a choice. Since you sight Tulip, in the past I've known a few girls personally all have left the business but they do have choices. The shop imposes these rules strict as they maybe so they can run a business. They have to have control over the staff so they can staff a business thus serve their customers this is the same as a Go Go. From my experience Thai girls not saying their reasons aren't important but are notorious for not showing up for work or even calling. It happens but saying it is mercenary is a bit of a stretch? If you were a owner knowing full well girls are coming and going freely to a point you have no idea who is working on a given day what would you do?[/QUOTE]Mercenary in the context of still charging the 3000 or 5000 baht per day rate when a lady has just received a call that her son has been blinded in a fireworks accident or in another case the father had a serious fall and was undergoing brain surgery. Otherwise I understand the need to maintain control over the workforce.
Made my investigation to know which girl performs good DT in the high Sukhumvit BJ bars:
- Chinchin at Woodbar.
- Tik at Kasalong.
- Wa at [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord901][CodeWord901][/url].
I myself know Chinchin's performance which is really good, I know the 2 others by reputation.
Be sure to ring and check if they are working and available, as they have some random days off.
[QUOTE=Syzygies;2075732]Soapy girl told me that making her cum, caused her to be excessively lazy. How would I know that in advance?[/QUOTE]In my opinion, when it comes to working girls, having them cum is a detriment. Isn't it almost always the case that they get lazy after they cum?