Crime, Safety, and the Police

hi pinche,

i am impressed with the depths in which you treated the gripes about tj police harassments in this forum.

about 50% of the times when i drove into tj at night, i was stopped by tj patrol cars and accused of violations that did not happen. after haggling for a while, the cops would make the signs or loudly demand cerveza money. while i was aware that i may be risking my life, i declined to give them any money. they just had to let me go. the other 50% of the times i was probably just lucky that tj policia was busy shaking down other gringos...

i reported many times these policia abuses using the means you describe below to no avail. i feel unsafe to have to face policia with their unchecked power and apparently without any oversight. then i read about tj's elected mayor hank rhon's illicit wealth and connections to drug cartels and murderers. i feel deeply sorry for the people of mexico to have to live full time under such unchecked and corrupt authority and power of their government officials.

in the us, the only times le pay any attention to me were when they spotted me speeding. in all cases, the state and local patrolmen were professional and courteous, never any threatening or demanding languages. naturally i feel much safer in the us, knowing i can engage contigency attorneys to sue the ass off any government agencies whose employees violated my rights. perhaps this same mechanism may help improve conditions in mexico, if the mexican attorneys can keep their heads from being blown off right after filing their suits...

in my little town there are a lot of mexican day laborers hanging out on the streets looking for work. one day there was a demonstration on the main street involving about 3 dozens mexicans against police harassment and brutality. people were walking with banners and mexican flag, shouting slogans etc... i bet that never got anywhere.

it helps to suggest effective means to address the grievances to resolve problems and to improve conditions for all. however, last time i tried, the sindicatura complaint web site, allegedly for tj's police internal affairs, never produced any results or feedbacks. last time i called 866 info tj3, the number was out of service. i called again today, the line was working but noone answered it.

i appreciate your conccientious effort and your broad knowledge in addressing these problems and defficiencies. if a lot more people would put in efforts like yours, positive improvements would be a lot faster and surer for all involved.

[quote=pinche gabacho]of course i'm safe down here. why, i've had more trouble with cops north of the border and i'm what you call a decent, law-abiding citizen no matter where in the world i might happen to be.

[b]corrective actions[/b]

if you hope to correct this problem, you must preserve the body of the crime.

the first recourse should be with our local tourist board. they tell me that they still maintain attorneys on staff to help even in cases where the tourist is at fault. they have a toll-free phone number, [b]078[/b], that you can call from any telephone in tijuana and where you can find english-speaking assistance day or night. my suggestion is that you call this number as soon as you can after an extorionate incident and ask that the tourist board send an attorney immediately to your location. such an attorney is trained to

the second recourse should be with the chamber of commerce's anti-corruption unit. you can call them when you get back home at [b]1-866-info-tj3[/b]. i spoke with these people about a year and a half ago: they appear to be moderately bilingual paralegals or licensed attorneys whose mission it is to protect tourist business. (one wing low reported previously that the number is out of service, but he was more than one wing low because he wing wong numba.) let these folks know who it was you talked to at 078 in order for the two groups to join forces.

the third recourse, for any abuse originating from city employees as opposed to state or federal employees, is the sindicatura that bluenose mentioned earlier. the linkage he gives sends you to an online compaint form. the síndico is an elected official who supposedly has greater legal authority than the mayor himself; at least the job of his department is to investigate the misbehavior of all city officials. i had a long chat with a member of the sindicatura recently and he assured me that, within the last year, they were instrumental in firing two hundred fifty corrupt police officers.

at least two other recourses are available for you but i cannot list them here. i have only e-mail addresses for the state human rights commissioner and for the municipal police force's internal affairs department. this text-entry window has a warning below it, [color="red"]reports containing email addresses will be deleted without comment.[/color] i'll try to get those addresses uploaded in another post.

pg

[/quote]

TJPD consider the mordita a second source of income or a suppliment to their income. Many have to pay off their commanders every week, so the pressure is on.

TJPD rely heavily on their ability to intimidate "estupido gringos" into parting with their cash. The Zona Norte is the hot spot since patrons there already consider that they are doing something wrong and most times they probably are so when TJPD rolls up they are at a dis-advantage and then the game begins.

It's a great idea to bone up on what the laws are and to get a feel for the situation and thanks to PG for the insightful post.

But at the end of the day, when it's in the still of the night and you are standing there infront of Officer Wantyourmuny, you'd better be able to deal with him in particular and not be intimidated.

What seems to work out is when you drag it out over a long time. They don;t like spending too much time with someone who has little money.

It's also important to remember that these guys have the authority to ruin your day. Maybe nothing will come out of it but who has the time to fuck with that?

Stay low profile. Don't dress like a tourist and don't be stupid. Develop a mechanism for dealing with them because they ARE a fact of life in Mexico and you WILL encounter them and the situation at some point.

Country John

Stealing can never be tolerated, especially when one is visiting a foreign country. Country John, you are an outstanding source of knowledge and information for this forum. I just cannot, nor will not agree to ever return to a place where it is OK for authorities to fleece their own bread and butter: Us, tourists. It has got to the point that anyone, anywhere is a target for a shakedown. Again, I am less than 6 hours away, and when this started, I used to visit at least once a month. I haven't been targeted (I know how to blend in), but why take a chance on being shot and robbed by someone wearing a TJPD uniform? I know, it has not happened yet; but trust me, we aren't too far from that. Hence my warning to fellow mongers: Is this shit being pulled by the TJPD really worthed? Until the city becomes devoid of tourists, they are not going to stop stealing from us. I know a few dozen every weekend folk (Not mongers) that have been shook and shaken for all they could get (By TJPD). What do you think is going to happen to us? If you are into self preservation, I suggest going someplace else, anywhere else for satisfaction. Being robbed by authorities just because they can, cannot be allowed to continue. If there is nobody to rob, trust me, they will get the point. Now, off my soapbox....
[QUOTE=Country John]TJPD consider the mordita a second source of income or a suppliment to their income. Many have to pay off their commanders every week, so the pressure is on.

TJPD rely heavily on their ability to intimidate "estupido gringos" into parting with their cash. The Zona Norte is the hot spot since patrons there already consider that they are doing something wrong and most times they probably are so when TJPD rolls up they are at a dis-advantage and then the game begins.

It's a great idea to bone up on what the laws are and to get a feel for the situation and thanks to PG for the insightful post.

But at the end of the day, when it's in the still of the night and you are standing there infront of Officer Wantyourmuny, you'd better be able to deal with him in particular and not be intimidated.

What seems to work out is when you drag it out over a long time. They don;t like spending too much time with someone who has little money.

It's also important to remember that these guys have the authority to ruin your day. Maybe nothing will come out of it but who has the time to fuck with that?

Stay low profile. Don't dress like a tourist and don't be stupid. Develop a mechanism for dealing with them because they ARE a fact of life in Mexico and you WILL encounter them and the situation at some point.

Country John[/QUOTE]

Stealing can never be tolerated, especially when one is visiting a foreign country. Country John, you are an outstanding source of knowledge and information for this forum. I just cannot, nor will not agree to ever return to a place where it is OK for authorities to fleece their own bread and butter: Us, tourists. It has got to the point that anyone, anywhere is a target for a shakedown. Again, I am less than 6 hours away, and when this started, I used to visit at least once a month. I haven't been targeted (I know how to blend in), but why take a chance on being shot and robbed by someone wearing a TJPD uniform? I know, it has not happened yet; but trust me, we aren't too far from that. Hence my warning to fellow mongers: Is this shit being pulled by the TJPD really worthed? Until the city becomes devoid of tourists, they are not going to stop stealing from us. I know a few dozen every weekend folk (Not mongers) that have been shook and shaken for all they could get (By TJPD). What do you think is going to happen to us? If you are into self preservation, I suggest going someplace else, anywhere else for satisfaction. Being robbed by authorities just because they can, cannot be allowed to continue. If there is nobody to rob, trust me, they will get the point. Now, off my soapbox....
[QUOTE=Country John]TJPD consider the mordita a second source of income or a suppliment to their income. Many have to pay off their commanders every week, so the pressure is on.

TJPD rely heavily on their ability to intimidate "estupido gringos" into parting with their cash. The Zona Norte is the hot spot since patrons there already consider that they are doing something wrong and most times they probably are so when TJPD rolls up they are at a dis-advantage and then the game begins.

It's a great idea to bone up on what the laws are and to get a feel for the situation and thanks to PG for the insightful post.

But at the end of the day, when it's in the still of the night and you are standing there infront of Officer Wantyourmuny, you'd better be able to deal with him in particular and not be intimidated.

What seems to work out is when you drag it out over a long time. They don;t like spending too much time with someone who has little money.

It's also important to remember that these guys have the authority to ruin your day. Maybe nothing will come out of it but who has the time to fuck with that?

Stay low profile. Don't dress like a tourist and don't be stupid. Develop a mechanism for dealing with them because they ARE a fact of life in Mexico and you WILL encounter them and the situation at some point.

Country John[/QUOTE]

Tourists are probably spooked most by the fact that TJ citizens elected a mayor with known connections to Mexican gangs, drug trafficking cartels, murderers... The man may even be elected governor of Baja California.

If the people elect someone their leader, they must yearn to be like that someone, dont they?

Can you imagine how scary it would be to walk into a city where the majority of the people want to be connected to gangs, drug traffickers, murderers???

I just returned from my trip to California. I crossed the border 4 evenings to visit "some friends". Each night, I was dropped off at La Linea by my taxi. 3 of the nights there were cops standing in the dark by the stairs. Sunday night, no cops. 2 of the 3 cop nights I was stopped for a "routine check". When they asked for my id, I took out my license and my money, which were in the same pocket. I handed them my id, answered some questions, and then was frisked, while my $ stayed in my hand. They asked if I had bought any drugs, and when they found nothing, they sent me on my way. When I got to customs, I showed my id, stated I was a US citizen, and went through. It is interesting that it is tougher to get "to the border" than "through the border".

I was making a call on the sidewalk. 4 cops took my cell phone (and my friends) and detained us for about 2 hours. We ended up paying a little bit for them to let us go.

When they first took my phone they questioned the mexican phone numbers in my phone book.

Does anyone know what they were doing with our phones?

[QUOTE=Caxcane 2]Does anyone know what they were doing with our phones?[/QUOTE]
Perhaps looking to see if you had any inappropriate photos.

When and where did they detain you?

(http://www.simon-net.com/online/The-Latest-for-Systems-Integrators/A-$15.5M-Surveillance-System-for-Tijuana--But-Who-Paid-for-It/11599SIW303 )

TJ spent $15 million on surveillance video system with 400 video cameras. The system has a capaicity of 3000 video cameras. So this makes me wonder why crime has not dropped much in TJ. The other possiblity is that the cops are using the system to extract more bribes and giving info to the drug lords.

We were detained in the back of a cop pick-up truck. We drove around and stopped somewhere for a while. Could not tell you where. General area was Zona Norte.

[QUOTE=Caxcane 2]I was making a call on the sidewalk. 4 cops took my cell phone (and my friends) and detained us for about 2 hours. We ended up paying a little bit for them to let us go.[/QUOTE]2 hours? what could possibly have taken so long? there must be a little more to this story. this should have been reported to police headquarters.

a good new place to complain is at The Association of Mexican Professional Realtors ph: 661-612-2720 or 619-864-2054.

[url]http://www.bajamls.com/[/url]

they are trying to cut down the police corruption from tijuana all the way down to Trump's new real estate project.

The best thing to say when you are detained (and don't laugh) is:

"I am not guilty of any crime and I have as much time as you need to take to check it out." then smile gently.

English translation: "Listen asshole, I have all night to stand here and watch YOU watch other opportunities drive by as you try to get blood out of this rock."

If you are unaffected by their attempts to humiliate and intimidate, they will get the message FAST that you are not a "roller," and they WILL move on.

On another interesting note, a police car (TJPD) stops by my house in Los Pinos every weekend on Saturday or Sunday to ask if I feel safe and if I have any complaints. They never come in the house, they always get out of the car and wait by the steel gate. They say they check with the residents all the time and want to know if "their people" feel safe in Los Pinos.

The next day a representative of the Secretaria De Seguridad Publica Minicipal, Direccion De Policia Y Transito stops by to verify that the other guys were there and to leave his cel phone number (Agente Arguevo) in case I have a question or a complaint.

I visit the Zona often with my girley who's sister manages one of the apartment buildings next door to Chicago Club. I always chat with the cops. Last weekend, when the roadblocks were up, there were TJPD at almost every baracade. I recognized almost every one of these guys and every one let me pass through the baricade instead of making me go around.

Don't lose sight of the fact that MAYBE you got a guy who is "doing his job" and doesn't want your money (seldom the case, I know).

Anyone who would like to chat with Agente Arguevo, PM me for his cel phone number at the Los Pinos Station. He's a good guy.

Be careful, be polite but be firm. Take up a lot of their time. If they want to search the trunk, help them empty it out - they hate that. Show them pictures of the kids, the house. Ask them if they've ever been to Disneyland.

But never buy their bullshit.

My Girleys family has a friend of the family who happens to be a Federali. So all you retired patches out there should carry your tin, but DO NOT be an asshole or it'll end up in a collection. TJPD will respect your badge if you respect theirs. It doesn't mean "pay up," it means show respect. As soon as they see your tin they'll reciprocate unless you are one adam henry.

The cocky guys will forever-more get the TJ Tour from the back of a Crown Vic, so don't worry about them. They'll be made to pay. But a little work will go a long ways towards staying out of the crosshairs.

Be safe and be nice
Country John

WARNING! WARNING! WARNING!

Made it to TJ 8/9 and 8/10. On 8/10 around 12:50 AM while in the cab I noticed some TJ cops at the drop off area near the cat walk to US immigration. I hid the bulk of my cash in my socks. As I approached them I noticed some cops were searching a guy. But I walked by and just waved to about three or four just standing there. I barely missed the 12:59 last trolley back to downtown. While trying to get a cab I spoke to three three guys who said the TJ cops searched them and took $300.00 from them, leaving them only about $40 to get back to their hotel in downtown SD. Lucky they found a taxi guy to take them since it cost me $23 just to get to my place on E Street.

Guys, either spend most of your money in TJ or hide it someplace. I guess the cops don't believe we should return state side with any money. This must have been a bad night. A couple of plain clothes cops were searching a guy inside the immigration building. BE SAFE MONGERING

[QUOTE=Malo9517]WARNING! WARNING! WARNING!

Made it to TJ 8/9 and 8/10. On 8/10 around 12:50 AM while in the cab I noticed some TJ cops at the drop off area near the cat walk to US immigration. I hid the bulk of my cash in my socks. As I approached them I noticed some cops were searching a guy. But I walked by and just waved to about three or four just standing there. I barely missed the 12:59 last trolley back to downtown. While trying to get a cab I spoke to three three guys who said the TJ cops searched them and took $300.00 from them, leaving them only about $40 to get back to their hotel in downtown SD. Lucky they found a taxi guy to take them since it cost me $23 just to get to my place on E Street.

Guys, either spend most of your money in TJ or hide it someplace. I guess the cops don't believe we should return state side with any money. This must have been a bad night. A couple of plain clothes cops were searching a guy inside the immigration building. BE SAFE MONGERING[/QUOTE]

When you approach the sentry drop off point, have your money IN YOUR HAND so that if they search you, they will not find it in your POCKET.

Repeat the above 100 times.

The cops are C R O O K S and you are giving them the opportunity to rob you.

You can also MARK your money if you are interested in calling their supervisor. Using a pencil, put your initials on the bills you are taking in or bringing back. If they grab your cash and you go for the supervisor, you'll be able to prove they got your money.

If the cop sees that the bills are marked, he or she will probably not take them, smelling a rat.

You can also do nothing, or maybe just hand all your cash over as you leave Mexico to make things simple.

It's shameful behavior, cops robbing tourists but it happens all the time to those who do not have a mechanism for dealing with it.

Went last week with a couple guys from overseas who were loaded. The guys would hand out $100 bills to pay the street vendors etc... and generally wasted a lot of tips on the chicas in HK and Adelita.

On the way back through the sentry point, there were 4 brown pornos hanging out around the tree, being useless as usual. I passed through no problem, but the pornos stopped the other 3 guys probably because of their manners and fancy clothes, expensive watches etc...

I stopped and watched, getting ready to intervene. However, one of the guys just took out his driver license, waved it at the pornos and they were waved right through.

So, were we just lucky?????