American Politics

hi cruiser. me republican, right? ;) politically independent. seen too much of ideology driven bs and grown wise. so, at the moment, in lack of other duties, i simply express my highly personal views on a monger site. don't ask me why.

unfortunately i can't find audi statistics for russian market, but the figures were substantial as i remember them, and vast share were pricier models.


[url=http://www.articlesbase.com/automotive-articles/audi-sells-964151-cars-worldwide-in-2007-306857.html]audi sold 964,151 cars in 2007 worldwide[/url]
in europe 686,480 cars in 2007
germany 254,014
uk sold 100,712 cars
usa 93,506
asia (mainly china & hk) 134,176
africa and middle east 27,866


[url=http://www.ebrd.com/pubs/factsh/themes/autorus.pdf]growth in car market units, all brands, 2007 (per cent)[/url]
russia 35
western europe 0
worldwide 6

car sales volume, 2007 (millions)
russia 2.8 (3,8mln predicted for 2008)
north america 9.1
western europe 14.7
china 5.4
worldwide 49.0

so why do i present boring statistics? just insisting about investors heading to markets where money can be done in quickest possible way. customers in saturated markets won't necessary buy, even if majority of products are affordable. novelty of yet a new mobile phone is gone. western consumers, at least the ones i know, tend to think twice before buying a new car, simply because in terms of money it's one of the absolutely worst deals one can make. russians for instance, need to flaunt money, to gain respect in eyes of friends, neighbours. if you don't have it, you probably can't afford it, means you are loser. this kind of mentality is predominant among aspiring city folk in russia, and i'm sure our frequent visitors there can confirm it. heard similar stories about china, which also is a booming nation.


[quote=cruiserd]my point, which you seemingly missed, is that walmart is the world’s biggest retailer. the eu, thanks to mostly france and germany still have a highly protectionism market. the us, not so much.
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my point for china and other exporter nations in general is if the us government set up a zero balance trade system a lot of 'emerging' economies would be in trouble.[/quote]
i think you are repeating myths overheard from american media. first of all, france probably is the most protectionist nation in eu. correct. but throwing germany into the same basket. totally incorrect. add the netherlands or sweden, or even the uk, to illustrate very deregulated markets, and the picture becomes clear.

what exactly did i miss from your walmart example?
perhaps something like this: walmart as world's biggest retailer sells china made junk, and as such, it could easily put chinese economy on the verge of collaps "if the us government set up a zero balance trade system".
great, somehow the us government doesn't seem to be determined to do anything about trade deficit, and guess what - in 2007 eu's trade deficit with china was [url=http://www.eubusiness.com/china/eu-china-trade.08]€157bln[/url](¨$232bln), while us' was [url=http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c5700.html#2007]$256bln[/url].
so much for eu's "protectionism". add quite interesting fact though - half of production facilities in china are foreign owned. who is behind foreign investments in china, and why aren't governtments of eu ans us anything about it? just a hint. why does it say 'made in china' on many nokia and ericsson models sold in eu and us?

[quote=cruiserd]your mentioning of the eu and georgia brings my point home about the eu. isn't it sarkozy and france who is running point on the whole georgia thing? and he isn't doing it in the name of the eu. it made me sick to see w the clueless sitting next to putin in bejing when russia was attacking georgia.
[/quote]
hate to be lengthy, risking the core of my post to get lost.
sarkozy acts in the name of eu, as current holder of (rotaing) presidency, even though not in the name of average european. besides, whoever would hold it at the moment, he/she would bark in the same way. i can't recall such breathtaking desinformation campaign in media about the whole georgia conflict. however bbc's 'have your say' section was cluttered with pro-russian posts, so obviously public hasn't been fooled this time.
dubbya clueless? eh, come on... who do you think sent hundreds of american military advisors to georgia? some of them were killed and indetified as "blacks" in russian media. israeli advisors were also there.
either it was an attempt to proxy war and test how far you might go before russia said halt, or what i think, a suicidial act of an obscure regime in tblisi, thinking it had carte blanche and security guarantees from the west. what a miscalculation. finally i hope shakashvili the clown, once and for all stops using eu flag during tv speeches from his office. georgia is not an eu country, and god help us it never will be.

[QUOTE=Jelly Donut]The Americans still have a lot of options with the Iranians. So, for that and a spectrum of other reasons, if Isreal decided to "go it alone" I'd figure the American would try to shoot thier planes down.[/QUOTE]
Namely, what options? You can bomb all fanatics in Iran back to the stone age, but if just one of them, sets off a dirty B in London, NY or other centers of West, we lose. So for now, Iran is fed with both whip and carrots. Doesn't work very well, and I'm sure there is no quick fix. Any suggestions?

US pilots shooting down Israelis - Don't make me laugh. Israelis already got a 'no' regarding access to Iraqi airspace. Also, Israeli jets can't make it to Iran and back without refueling, as possible air combat is taken into account.

There won't be any conventional invasion either. You can quote me on this.

So Iran will then be allowed to go nuclear? I think that is a horrible idea. It would be great if Israel would get rid of Iran's nukes. Iran has also threatened Europe, I could see a conflict brewing between Iran and the EU in the coming years.

There will be no invasion or firefight between Iran and the Anglo nations, but I think something is on the horizon for the EU and Iran. Once a more a right wing government takes control of Germany it will lead to a major historic push, a revival of Germany's military. Russia and Germany recently formulated an agreement, historically, when both nations do this, its usually a prelude to a major military conflict.

The Germans could easily retool those factories to build missiles, tanks, aircraft, instead of Audis and BMWs. Now that the EU is beginning to work as an integrated economic unit, it does not sound far fetched. The A380 is the first aircraft that is partially designed and constructed in Germany although most of it is constructed in France, and its engine was designed in Britain.

[QUOTE=Leeuwen]Well, I thought I just made a point about China's domestic market. Apparently I was wrong. Let make another attempt.
America was/is an export nation too, until it's trade balance went ape. Chinese domestic market is growing every year, and China is as important to its trading partners as vice versa. Besides, without having current figures, China's trade with EU might be worth even more than with the U.S. Please, stop thinking China will somehow collaps the day America stops buying its products. Oh, and guess who holds most US dollars out there.



Oh, but then please explain why launching 3G enabled phones in Russia, if there is almost no (if completely no-existant) 3G networks? Again, this is about saturated markets and emerging markets. Why do you think Norwegian Telenor is dominant in... Bangladesh(!)? The anwser is future customers.

Another example - This year, Russia has surpassed Germany as the most important car market in Europe. All car manufacturers fight to open production facilities in St. Petersburg. Audi sells major part of it's upper class models (A6, A8, Q7) to... Russia.




Haha, you did my day, indeed. No, thanks God I'm not 'fortunate' to shop at Walmart. Wait, didn't Walmart try to open stores in Germany, but had to go home again, since customers 'let it down'? ;)
So, if we take Walmart or Swedish IKEA as example for indirect employers of foot chained kids working for nothing, somewhere in Pakistan, then you translate it into 'average American consumer's inpact on global economy'? Give me a break.


Who are you kidding? EU is far from only a trading block. Latest involvement in the Georgia crisis and EU summits were hardly about economy. Time to wake up.


I guess America did all this of pure courtsey?
Look, if the U.S didn't step in in the end of WWII, Sovets would 'liberate' entire Europe and your days would be numbered, ok?
Same foreign policy was applied during the Cold War. Better to fight the enemy on foreign soil than right home in America. What allies would America have if W.Europe fell into Russian hands? The U.S would have become surrounded by Soviets. Don't forget Soviets applied, and still apply same analogy. Better to keep so called buffer states and fight proxy wars, than let the enemy on Russian soil.
The British made last payment for your 'help' in WWII just last year, if I'm not misinformed. So stop claiming nonsense of saving someone's ass.[/QUOTE]

Actually D the reason why we don't get more advanced phones faster in America is alot simpler than you think.

Americans as a WHOLE are STUPID and CHEAP.

Before DVR's got popular just how many people have 12:00 flashing on their VCR and no way to set it?

I'm not sure but I think 3 million Americans including my stepfather and John McCain have no desire to learn how to even send EMAIL.

The reason why providers have kept phones simple is because most people still complain about being able to make a frickin phone call! My mother mostly has a BB Curve so she can play Spades...

I blame some of this on phone companies. They put all the fun stuff on business phones for a long time and just recently started to put apps useful to the rest of us on regular lower cost "dumbphones".

I ordered a TMO G1 and I'm waiting for it to be delivered, this phone is WAY above most people's heads. I can do things with my Rokr E6 (which is an unlocked Asia-Pacific market Motorola) that mirror the first Iphone. I just don't have the nice browser and 30fps video playback, but its touch screen and Unlocked...

[QUOTE=CBGBConnisur]So Iran will then be allowed to go nuclear? I think that is a horrible idea. It would be great if Israel would get rid of Iran's nukes. Iran has also threatened Europe, I could see a conflict brewing between Iran and the EU in the coming years.

There will be no invasion or firefight between Iran and the Anglo nations, but I think something is on the horizon for the EU and Iran. Once a more a right wing government takes control of Germany it will lead to a major historic push, a revival of Germany's military. Russia and Germany recently formulated an agreement, historically, when both nations do this, its usually a prelude to a major military conflict.

The Germans could easily retool those factories to build missiles, tanks, aircraft, instead of Audis and BMWs. Now that the EU is beginning to work as an integrated economic unit, it does not sound far fetched. The A380 is the first aircraft that is partially designed and constructed in Germany although most of it is constructed in France, and its engine was designed in Britain.[/QUOTE]

This is foolish thinking but with the wave of phone calls and emails to the Capital when the first Baliout plan came down, I think we're finally paying attention around.

Now take this with a gain of salt -

If we can keep that kind of focus on the Government who would quickly find themselves out of office if they kept trying to force silly things to happen, then we can expect NO ATTACK on Iran. We can expect serious talks between Iran, Palestinian, Israel and everybody else in the region.

To pay for the social changes and rebuilding of America, let's face it. We can't have Clandestine Wars or Wars period. It only enriches the MIC when frankly they can be put to work developing Fuel Cells, Hydrogen Power, Getting to a "Zero Waste" and increasing our supply of Fresh Water.

Anyway, change is coming. If its not I need to find a safe spot on the earth to chill in for the next 10 years or so.

Jelly Donut just lost all credibility to me, US pilots shooting down Israeli jets??!!! What the fuck are you smoking?? Didn't you know Israel dominates American foreign policy and every politician in America including Obama fears Jews?? Everyone knows that when Israel tells the US government to jump, the US government says "How high??". The US military just gave Israel are most advanced radar system.
CruiserD's talk of $20 a barrel oil???!! Oh sure, production peaked over 30 years ago but demand has increased since China and India have joined the global economy, there is no way cheap oil is coming back with 40 percent of the world's population deciding they want to become capitalists.

[QUOTE=CBGBConnisur]Jelly Donut just lost all credibility to me, US pilots shooting down Israeli jets??!!! What the fuck are you smoking?? .[/QUOTE]

A Carlos Torano "Noventa". It was a bit hard to light the thing up, but I'm enjoying the overall experience.

As I understand it, the question was what happens if Isreali overflies Iraq in order to attack Iran. I don't see how that helps American foriegn policy overall (or even [i]at all[/i]). If you use some imagination, you understand that such an attack would be considered an attack by the [i]United States[/i] on Iran. It's not like the United States could simply say "Oh yeah, we just let those guys fly over Iraq. Didn't think much of it at the time. Sorry." The assumption everyone would make would be that the United States has authorized it.

It would complicate the US position with Arab states, probably reverse what gains we see in Iraq, perhaps ingite a complete war with Iran. I don't think that's a direction the USA (or Isreal or Iran) wants to go in. But that was the question.

Back in the Second World War, the British ended up sinking the French fleet. That was something unlikely, but that's how the politics spun out. This is similiar territory. Based on your posts, I'm convinced you've got the imagination to see - an Isreali overflight of Iraq would not be in American interests, the United States would have to take steps to stop it.

It's an interesting hypothetical question, but it's a bit out there and my answer fits it fine.


JD

[QUOTE=DJ FourMoney]
Castro Nieves is out on 1.5 Million dollar bail for the IRS discovering his tax shelter and there rumors that many IRL Indy Car stars are scared they might get found if Helio turns State's "Stool Pigeon". Rich people DON'T PAY taxes and just WHO is Castro Nieves creating JOBS for????[/quote]

Point of Information: It's 'Castronieves' as one word.

[QUOTE=DJ FourMoney]

Businesses might complain but then how come its only AARP, Medical Doctors and 70% of Americans want Single Payer Health Care which would get companies off the HOOK and they aren't jumping up and down supporting it???[/QUOTE]

I don't know. It doesn't makes sense to me that the average American is not SCREAMING for single payer health care / universal insurance. The most obvious benefit is that if you lose your job, as many are now doing, you keep your health insurance. That is because it is provided by the government and paid through taxes (borne mostly by the high income), rather through an employer and paid through large deductions to our paychecks.

Some American voters just don't understand their economic interests.

[QUOTE=Jelly Donut]A Carlos Torano "Noventa". It was a bit hard to light the thing up, but I'm enjoying the overall experience.

As I understand it, the question was what happens if Isreali overflies Iraq in order to attack Iran. I don't see how that helps American foriegn policy overall (or even [i]at all[/i]). If you use some imagination, you understand that such an attack would be considered an attack by the [i]United States[/i] on Iran. It's not like the United States could simply say "Oh yeah, we just let those guys fly over Iraq. Didn't think much of it at the time. Sorry." The assumption everyone would make would be that the United States has authorized it.

It would complicate the US position with Arab states, probably reverse what gains we see in Iraq, perhaps ingite a complete war with Iran. I don't think that's a direction the USA (or Isreal or Iran) wants to go in. But that was the question.

Back in the Second World War, the British ended up sinking the French fleet. That was something unlikely, but that's how the politics spun out. This is similiar territory. Based on your posts, I'm convinced you've got the imagination to see - an Isreali overflight of Iraq would not be in American interests, the United States would have to take steps to stop it.

It's an interesting hypothetical question, but it's a bit out there and my answer fits it fine.


JD[/QUOTE]

William Kristol, Paul Wolfowitz, Douglas Feith, and Richard Perle, these were men who pretty much were the architects of Bush's Middle East policy, they all happen to be Jews and ardent Zionists commited to Israel, CruiserD is so off on saying that this administration turned its back on Israel, in fact its policies were in line with the most right wing aspects of the Israeli leadership.

The world is becoming more multipolar, and its obvious the US era of total domination is over. I expect big changes around the world. The most striking will be a more right wing Europe which is at the doorstep of radical Islam as well as the Russian bear.

[QUOTE=CBGBConnisur]William Kristol, Paul Wolfowitz, Douglas Feith, and Richard Perle, these were men who pretty much were the architects of Bush's Middle East policy, they all happen to be Jews and ardent Zionists commited to Israel...[/QUOTE]

The President and Vice President of the United States are, as far as I know, both Methodists. Of the Secretaries of State, Defense and Treasury through the Bush administration the only one I'm aware of that spoke any Yiddish was Colin Powell, who picked it up as a kid in Harlem. In the United States, these are the principle officers of the Executive Branch and the people who ultimately direct major policies.

Of the people you mentioned, Wolfowitz was U.S. Deputy Secretary of Defense and Feith was Under Secretary of Defense for Policy. I think Perle had some kind of advisory role to the Secretary of Defense as well. Obviously, not unimportant positions, but tertiary to the administration. Not Cabinet level.

If you're going to have a go at a religious group, why not take on the Methodists? It would be so much more fresh than the same old boring Zionist conspiracy song-and-dance. Anyway, it seems like you are heading in a better direction with this whole Europe swinging right thing - love the idea of Carla Sarkozy in jack boots - I'd liked to see you flesh that idea out further.

leeuwen, and your car stats mean what? audi sells more cars in europe then the us, and that is a big surprise because?

have you ever lived or worked in germany. the germans are just as protectionism as they french, they just don't take to the streets in protest. that simply isn't the german way.

as far as the china trade thing goes you keep making it into a us/china thing. the chinese economy will implode if they can't export to anyone.

sarkozy is the president of france, he isn't president of the european union, however he is president of the european council, a figurehead position which rotates with the leader nation. however this will come to an end soon with a eu elected president. here is what the eu is doing officially in georgia, [url]http://www.delgeo.ec.europa.eu/en/press2008/17sept2008.html[/url], business as usual for europe.

umm yeah, the us had 'hundreds' of military advisors in georgia (read - hundreds of special ops agents). where did you get that one, the weekly world news of moscow?

i've notice you tend to ramble off on tangents and argue points that are not being discussed. you also tend to distort and or ignore what i have written and then go off on another tangent to reply to my 'remarks'. could you just stick to the subject at hand, fully read and comprehend my remarks and then reply to them? hmmm?

dj, actually my mobile explanation is the correct [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord116][CodeWord116][/url]. but i never did take into account that your dad can’t use a mobile except to make a call with. neither can my dad or just about any other ‘dad’ in the world, it’s kinda universal.

m5, are you nuts? the druge report isn't a good place to follow anything. you want unbiased reporting that isn't an op-ed piece in disguse read the ap newsline.

[QUOTE=Marak5]Thanks to Obama!

George Bush was on the front page of the Chicago tribune 2 weeks ago desperate with Obama and Nancy Pelosi coddling him.

Obama is 1 Senator out of 100 and might as well be dictator right now.

Congress is predicting a 'liberal supermajority' in the November, I'd say it's realistic.

Legalization of prostitution in the USA under Obama? Likely. Obama's platfor includes an infrastructure rehaul.

Rumors that George Bush will resign after using the patriot act to spy on Obama's campaign and supporters.

I'd say the stock market might as well be on it's way out. Anyone watching the american media? Fairly eerie situation going on. McCain is guaranteeing 100% of savings for only 6 months if he wins. Put cash into a safe if a storage bin or government bonds.

Obama opposed the Iraq war and wants troops home in 12-18 months.

I doubt that Europe would be overtaking land or materials.

[url]www.drudgereport.com[/url] is the best place to follow the election.

Obama is the international guy for 2008.[/QUOTE]

What makes you think Obama will win, already the polls are narrowing yet again to nearly 5 percent. You have to account for the Bradley effect, which often says minorities do worse in real elections than in polls. Regardless of whether Obama or McCain wins, its going to be a stormy next few years for the world. I just don't see a swift US economic recovery happening if Obama wins, it will take years for a recovery to happen, and it won't happen while Obama is President. His policies are ambitious and it will take years before it can reap any fruit.

Comparing the current economic crisis to the 1930s is a bit of a stretch, with government intervention we will get the 1970s, not good but still not as bad as the Great Depression.

Either way you are seeing the development of a more multipolar world. The US is not going to fall to pieces but its not going to be an unchallenged power either that will be able to throw its weight around without consequences.

Race matters in Florida and Ohio, two states Obama needs to win the White House, and those are states with racial issues. He has a narrow lead in both. I think he can still win if he takes Virginia where is he is leading by 8 points in the polls and after the Bradley Effect, he will win by 3 points or so, assuming he keeps this lead in Virginia.

Already just looking at the election map, its very certain how politically polarized the US has become. Palin's comment about pro America states does not help, it remains to be seen if Obama will be a unifying figure in America. Somehow I don't think the people in the Red States are particularly fond of America.

As far as Zionist conspiracies are concerned, ever heard of Evangelicals like John Hagee?? Just about every Born Again pastor in America makes a point that its a good Christian's duty to support Israel. My family are Evangelicals, although I am not, they all are pro Israel Zionists. That is why Bush and Cheney are Zionists yet not Jewish.

The Dollar is moving because other economies are suffering due to the subprime fallout hitting other countries, also the fact that other central banks are slashing interest rates. The Dollar will go up and down for a while, but wait til the Chinese float the RMB.

Europe has gone facist in the last century, why would it not happen again? History has shown us time after time that political extremists gain power during times of great economic uncertainty. Look what the Austrian mainstream said about the death of Joerg Haider, a man who once called SS Wafen heroes and own parents were supporters of the third Reich, it shows how ingrained these attitudes are on the Continent.

The French?? The French are good for food, but European history circles around Britain, Germany, and Russia.

China will stand on its own without blinking in 3-5 years. They've been shooting for JUST THAT for the past 15-20 years, remember that.

All the ethnocentric ranting in the universe won't change that. Yeah, conditions in America are better for the average person, MUCH better, RIGHT NOW, that ain't gonna last very fucking long. And unfortunatley the USA has all its eggs in one basket (the economy) and the basket just got dropped!

[quote=CruiserD]You also tend to distort and or ignore what I have written and then go off on another tangent to reply to my 'remarks'. Could you just stick to the subject at hand, fully read and comprehend my remarks and then reply to them? Hmmm?[/quote]We were on China and I brought up Russian market as an parallel example of an emerging economy. Why sales of Audi cars? I explicitly anwered this already, and "big surprise" was the extraordinary growth of car sales in Russia (all brands), and Russia surpassing Germany as Europe's most important market for automobiles. Do yourself a favour and read once again.

Since global economy is such a wide topic, it may seem to you I don't stick to the subject, but if Ford, Nissan, Renault, Chrysler, VW, Toyota already opened factories in Russia (again!) and BMW and Daimler are talking about doing the same, it must be an unambiguous indicator that established markets are losing importance, relatively. Hence, your bold statement, almost oxymoron, [i]"The Chinese economy will implode if they can't export TO ANYONE."[/i], gets an imediate reply. There will always be someone buying. Nobody is irreplaceable.

[Quote=Crusier D]Sarkozy is the president of France, he isn't president of the European Union, however he is president of the European Council, a figurehead position which rotates with the leader nation.[/quote][quote=Leeuwen]Sarkozy acts in the name of EU, as current holder of (rotaing) presidency, even though not in the name of average European.[/quote]Further comments are superfluous.

[quote=Cruiser D]Umm yeah, the US had 'hundreds' of military advisors in Georgia (read - hundreds of special ops agents). Where did you get that one, the Weekly World News of Moscow?[/quote]Look, it's no secret the US armed Georgia since [url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/1844653.stm]at least 2002[/url] and been it's principal supporter. If you ever heard of Nabucco vs. South Stream, chances are you may come to wise conclusions. I sugest you look [url=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a1/Baku_pipelines.svg]here[/url] and [url=http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/01/18/europe/EU-GEN-Bulgaria-Putin.php]here[/url].

Published: [url=http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/07/15/europe/EU-GEN-Georgia-US-Military.php]July 15, 2008[/url]
[i]"TBILISI, Georgia: Georgian and U.S. troops started a joint military exercise Tuesday amid growing tensions between the ex-Soviet republic and Russia, a Georgian defense ministry official said.

About 1,200 U.S. servicemen and 800 Georgians will train for three weeks at the Vaziani military base near the Georgian capital, Tbilisi, ministry spokesman Mindiya Arabuli said. The drills were planned months ago and are not related to recent tensions over two separatist Georgian regions that are backed by Moscow, he said."[/i]

Yes, Russian media claimed one-hundred-military-advisors. Should we ignore it because Russian media claims it, and not our truth-and-whole-truth-only Western media? Mind you, I listen to everyone's story. Besides, what do you think American military advisors are hired for, if not training military personel, often in US-backed countries. How many are they in Central Asia, in Middle East? They certainly aren't sitting in Kansas watching cornfields.

Finally, [url=http://www.debka.com/article.php?aid=1358]an excellent article from our Hebrew friends[/url], shedding light on events that conveniently haven't been quite in focus of neither BBC, ABC, NBC or other friendly networks. Enjoy.

[i]"Last year, the Georgian president commissioned from private Israeli security firms several hundred military advisers, estimated at up to 1,000, to train the Georgian armed forces in commando, air, sea, armored and artillery combat tactics. They also offer instruction on military intelligence and security for the central regime. Tbilisi also purchased weapons, intelligence and electronic warfare systems from Israel.

These advisers were undoubtedly deeply involved in the Georgian army’s preparations to conquer the South Ossetian capital Friday."[/i]

[quote=Cruiser D]Have you ever lived or worked in Germany. The Germans are just as protectionism as they French, they just don't take to the streets in protest. That simply isn't the German way.[/quote]I feel obliged to return the favour - Where did you get that one, FoxNews? Do you have any examples or facts backing your empty statement? If so, then maybe we can discuss the matter in German.

Bango, China has always stood on it's own except during the imperialism era, even then it was one cagey tiger.