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If you ask Dominicans what they think about their country, most of them value it as the best in the world. Maybe not the best, but many of us on this board section like it a lot. WHO issued statistics of the safest and the most dangerous countries to drive. On the list DR is not the best, but close (of the worst countries).
[URL]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/maps-and-graphics/Mapped-The-worlds-most-dangerous-places-to-drive/[/URL]
[QUOTE=Nordico;1863421]If you ask Dominicans what they think about their country, most of them value it as the best in the world.[/QUOTE]Of course they will think it is the best because it is all they know. The same as many people think Sosua is the bee's knees because of the same reason.
Before I knew Cartagena and Santa Marta Colombians would always tell me either was the best beach ever. Well eventually I went to both and they both sucked. But with Colombia not being much for beaches, to them those beaches WERE the best ever.
[QUOTE=Nordico;1863421]If you ask Dominicans what they think about their country, most of them value it as the best in the world. Maybe not the best, but many of us on this board section like it a lot. WHO issued statistics of the safest and the most dangerous countries to drive. On the list DR is not the best, but close (of the worst countries).
[URL]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/maps-and-graphics/Mapped-The-worlds-most-dangerous-places-to-drive/[/URL][/QUOTE]It certainly has the potential to be the best.
I once stood outside Playa Dorada, waiting for a ride, and observed no less than 5 different fruit trees growing wild within a 50 meter radius.
Unfortunately, this natural paradise is cursed by a corrupt, incompetent government and administrative infrastructure.
A tiny minority live in luxury, while most of the population live in hopeless poverty.
The only way for the average Dominican to get ahead is to be a corrupt politician, criminal, or puta.
Jobs are scarce, and those that exist pay ridiculously low wages.
Most Dominicans would love to leave. Getting a visa to the US is like winning the lottery.
No hope of improvement inside their own country.
Not sure how many of them can maintain a positive attitude or any level of happiness.
American Air has a flight that gets in Sosua at 2:30 but the American return flights all stink. So what I do is book my return flight with Spirit out of SD leaves at 3;30. Metro bus leaves Sosua a 8:20 get in SD 12:30. My option on next trip for return is 8:30 pm Delta flight to jfk. These are really good options and the price under 500 for the round trip.
[QUOTE=Yanqui69;1863560]It certainly has the potential to be the best.
I once stood outside Playa Dorada, waiting for a ride, and observed no less than 5 different fruit trees growing wild within a 50 meter radius. [/QUOTE]It is simply a matter of your perspective Mr. Yanqui69.
[QUOTE=Yanqui69;1863560]Unfortunately, this natural paradise is cursed by a corrupt, incompetent government and administrative infrastructure. [/QUOTE]The US supported a brutal and corrupt dictator in the DR for 30 years. Only abandoning him and giving the green light to his assassination after the murder of the three sisters made him a pariah on the world stage. The politicians that are fighting a culture of corruption supported by the US government are in the minority. The US supports corrupt politicians here because it only has an interest in maintaining strategic military options in the Caribbean.
[QUOTE=Yanqui69;1863560]A tiny minority live in luxury, while most of the population live in hopeless poverty. [/QUOTE]Not much different than the US and most of the rest of the world. If you look at the wealth distribution statistics the US has the highest levels of wealth inequality in the world.
[URL]http://fortune.com/2015/09/30/america-wealth-inequality/[/URL]
[QUOTE=Yanqui69;1863560]The only way for the average Dominican to get ahead is to be a corrupt politician, criminal, or puta. [/QUOTE]That is simply not true. My suggestion is to travel to other parts of the country and view the lives of regular people going about their lives providing goods and services for their fellow Dominicans and foreign visitors.
[QUOTE=Yanqui69;1863560]Jobs are scarce, and those that exist pay ridiculously low wages. [/QUOTE]This is due to two factors: 1. The greed of Dominican companies in not hiring enough workers to provide a quality customer service experience. 2. The US working to keep wages low in the country in order to assist companies with manufacturing facilities here to continue to maintain their obscenely high gross margins. They did the same thing in Haiti by opposing the increase in the minimum wage in that country.
[QUOTE=Yanqui69;1863560]Most Dominicans would love to leave. Getting a visa to the US is like winning the lottery. [/QUOTE]This is not true. Most Dominican's do not want to leave their country. Many would like to visit the US. But the idea of leaving their home and family is concept only held by the minority. I know many Dominican's with US visas that have visited the United States only to conclude that they didn't like it. Most want to go and visit family and see the country. Not live there.
[QUOTE=Yanqui69;1863560]No hope of improvement inside their own country. [/QUOTE]There is plenty of improvement happening within this country. But if you are sexual tourist, you probably haven't taken enough time from getting your dick off at the lowest possible price as many times as possible to look around and see the profound positive changes occurring in this country.
[QUOTE=Yanqui69;1863560]Not sure how many of them can maintain a positive attitude or any level of happiness. [/QUOTE]It's quite easy. Dominicans are a strong and resourceful people that I see putting in work everyday and getting it done. The fact that you choose to associate with hustlers and scammers should not color your views of the entire country.
[QUOTE=SubCmdr;1870206]
The US supported a brutal and corrupt dictator in the DR for 30 years. Only abandoning him and giving the green light to his assassination after the murder of the three sisters made him a pariah on the world stage. The politicians that are fighting a culture of corruption supported by the US government are in the minority. The US supports corrupt politicians here because it only has an interest in maintaining strategic military options in the Caribbean.[/QUOTE]Anybody wanting a deeper understanding of DR's recent history should read Mario Vargas Llosa's "The Feast of the Goat" (La Fiesta del Chivo). It's about the Assassination of Trujillo, former dictator of DR. The book is easy to read and quite entertaining and makes you understand what it was like in DR during the first half of the 20th century.
[QUOTE=SubCmdr;1870206]It is simply a matter of your perspective Mr. Yanqui69.
The US supported a brutal and corrupt dictator in the DR for 30 years. Only abandoning him and giving the green light to his assassination after the murder of the three sisters made him a pariah on the world stage. The politicians that are fighting a culture of corruption supported by the US government are in the minority. The US supports corrupt politicians here because it only has an interest in maintaining strategic military options in the Caribbean.
Not much different than the US and most of the rest of the world. If you look at the wealth distribution statistics the US has the highest levels of wealth inequality in the world.
[URL]http://fortune.com/2015/09/30/america-wealth-inequality/[/URL]
That is simply not true. My suggestion is to travel to other parts of the country and view the lives of regular people going about their lives providing goods and services for their fellow Dominicans and foreign visitors.
This is due to two factors: 1. The greed of Dominican companies in not hiring enough workers to provide a quality customer service experience. 2. The US working to keep wages low in the country in order to assist companies with manufacturing facilities here to continue to maintain their obscenely high gross margins. They did the same thing in Haiti by opposing the increase in the minimum wage in that country.
This is not true. Most Dominican's do not want to leave their country. Many would like to visit the US. But the idea of leaving their home and family is concept only held by the minority. I know many Dominican's with US visas that have visited the United States only to conclude that they didn't like it. Most want to go and visit family and see the country. Not live there.
There is plenty of improvement happening within this country. But if you are sexual tourist, you probably haven't taken enough time from getting your dick off at the lowest possible price as many times as possible to look around and see the profound positive changes occurring in this country.
It's quite easy. Dominicans are a strong and resourceful people that I see putting in work everyday and getting it done. The fact that you choose to associate with hustlers and scammers should not color your views of the entire country.[/QUOTE]Don't be too hard on Yanqui.
A lot of what he says is based on what people see when they spend time in the sex tourist areas. It's a common mistake ("all women are hookers, and all men are touts".
But it's a big country out there and they manage quite well with what they have. They work very hard (comparatively) and like you say are very resourceful. I've seen them do amazing things in a short time, and say, No Problemo.
I've actually traveled the world with 2 PhD ladies, and I've travelled the DR with my poor unschooled regular, and I can tell you she has more street smarts, can behave appropriately in the finest resort, or the local hooker bar, and nothing is too much trouble for her. No Problemo. She constantly amazes me. She can cook for a big family on an open fire, she's always on time, can be ready at a moment notice, (and never complains about ill fitting shoes :) What they do have, which I don't see where I came from, is a strong connection to extended family, the old take care of the babies, and the young take care of the old.
[QUOTE=SubCmdr;1870206]It is simply a matter of your perspective Mr. Yanqui69.
The US supported a brutal and corrupt dictator in the DR for 30 years. Only abandoning him and giving the green light to his assassination after the murder of the three sisters made him a pariah on the world stage. The politicians that are fighting a culture of corruption supported by the US government are in the minority. The US supports corrupt politicians here because it only has an interest in maintaining strategic military options in the Caribbean.
Not much different than the US and most of the rest of the world. If you look at the wealth distribution statistics the US has the highest levels of wealth inequality in the world.
[URL]http://fortune.com/2015/09/30/america-wealth-inequality/[/URL]
That is simply not true. My suggestion is to travel to other parts of the country and view the lives of regular people going about their lives providing goods and services for their fellow Dominicans and foreign visitors.
This is due to two factors: 1. The greed of Dominican companies in not hiring enough workers to provide a quality customer service experience. 2. The US working to keep wages low in the country in order to assist companies with manufacturing facilities here to continue to maintain their obscenely high gross margins. They did the same thing in Haiti by opposing the increase in the minimum wage in that country.
This is not true. Most Dominican's do not want to leave their country. Many would like to visit the US. But the idea of leaving their home and family is concept only held by the minority. I know many Dominican's with US visas that have visited the United States only to conclude that they didn't like it. Most want to go and visit family and see the country. Not live there.
There is plenty of improvement happening within this country. But if you are sexual tourist, you probably haven't taken enough time from getting your dick off at the lowest possible price as many times as possible to look around and see the profound positive changes occurring in this country.
It's quite easy. Dominicans are a strong and resourceful people that I see putting in work everyday and getting it done. The fact that you choose to associate with hustlers and scammers should not color your views of the entire country.[/QUOTE]I actually agree with most of what you say.
The US has habitually supported any brutal dictator in Latin America that swore he wasn't communist.
No disagreement there.
But Trujillo was removed over 50 years ago, and corruption has become the culture. Its not just wages for retail workers that are low. When cops get paid amazingly low wages, you can count on them being corrupt.
When a retail store or bank employee makes $200 US a month, not all attributable to US influence. Most expenses (food, utilities, etc) in the DR are not cheap. Many are more expensive than the US. You do not get ahead in the DR earning $200 a month.
A dentist I know of in Puerto Plata earns about $600 a month (a medical professional). Better off than most, but same goes for expenses.
My novia has a cousin who's a lawyer. A lawyer, for Pete's sake! And he emigrated to Florida, where he earns more money driving a truck out of Lakeland.
My novia has a business degree from UTEP in Santiago, and its hard as hell to find a job paying more than $200 a month, even for an educated person.
Her sales job for a plastics company paid exactly $250 US a month. The company laid off people, she can't find another job, and now wants to travel to the US, just so she can work a few months in a salon or waiting tables.
No disagreement on the inequality of wealth in America, but the "lower 99%" in the US are still much better off than the 99% in the DR.
On the subject of emigration, if persons can afford plane fare to visit family in the US, they aren't doing too bad financially. They likely have a decent income and can live well.
Many, however, can't.
Juan Luis Guerra and his band, 440, have a well-known song called, "Buscando Visa Para un Sueno" (Searching for a Visa For a Dream) precisely about someone seeking that magic ticket.
I think there is room for a difference of opinion on that issue.
However,
Rather than just providing your perspective, you make assumptions about me without knowing anything about me, and take the aggressive "flaming" attitude, not just offering a differing view, but trying to insult the writer. Uncalled for. Not sure what causes or justifies your attitude.
You presume I troll Sosua.
"But if you are sexual tourist, you probably haven't taken enough time from getting your dick off at the lowest possible price as many times as possible to look around and see the profound positive changes occurring in this country. ".
You know nothing about me.
Fact is, I haven't had a hooker in Sosua since 2005. Most of the last 7 or 8 years, I have spent my time in Santiago, not a sex tourist Mecca.
So, you're running your mouth in third gear, with brain in neutral.
"The fact that you choose to associate with hustlers and scammers should not color your views of the entire country."
You know nothing about me, Sunshine, so ranting about what is "fact" is beyond your knowledge.
If you have differing opinions or views, that's fine. But refrain from personal attacks on people you know absolutely nothing about. Anyone viewing any of my posts can see I do not "flame" people for having a different viewpoint.
Express your views freely, but keep your attitude, assumptions, and insults to yourself.
[QUOTE=Nordico;1870221]Anybody wanting a deeper understanding of DR's recent history should read Mario Vargas Llosa's "The Feast of the Goat" (La Fiesta del Chivo). [/QUOTE]Kudos are due. I am impressed by the previous exchanges. The reference to Hermanas Mirabal (their story is fictionalized in a novel by Julia Alvarez -a professor in a CT college, En el tiempo de las mariposas (In the Time of Butterflies. Also a movie) - and the book by LLosa, a Nobel Laureate. This last book was rendered into a movie as well (Isabella Rossellini in a lead role) for those that cannot brook the idea of reading.
[QUOTE=Oakie;1870229]Don't be too hard on Yanqui.
A lot of what he says is based on what people see when they spend time in the sex tourist areas. It's a common mistake ("all women are hookers, and all men are touts".
But it's a big country out there and they manage quite well with what they have. They work very hard (comparatively) and like you say are very resourceful. I've seen them do amazing things in a short time, and say, No Problemo.
I've actually traveled the world with 2 PhD ladies, and I've travelled the DR with my poor unschooled regular, and I can tell you she has more street smarts, can behave appropriately in the finest resort, or the local hooker bar, and nothing is too much trouble for her. No Problemo. She constantly amazes me. She can cook for a big family on an open fire, she's always on time, can be ready at a moment notice, (and never complains about ill fitting shoes :) What they do have, which I don't see where I came from, is a strong connection to extended family, the old take care of the babies, and the young take care of the old.[/QUOTE]Oakie,
Thank you for your defense but it is unnecessary. Like "SubCdr" you make the assumption I hang out in Sosua.
Reality is, I haven't looked for a woman there in over a decade.
I have seen more of the country than my attacker assumes, though, of course, I'm not a resident.
See my supporting argument in the previous post.
The Dr is what Capitalism is run amuck. The upper class "white Dominicans" control everything. They drive mercedes and the poor. I went to the Blue mall in SD. I did not see one brown skin person. Not even sweeping the floors. The treatment of haitians is another example of racist core of these people You can not drink dominican the kool aid or water. I love the DR people but hate the upper class who drain the masses. In the US we still have a sizable middle class. Wealth distribution is an issue but we still have funds for infrastructure and education. The DR does not educate its people.
[QUOTE=OldKool;1870297]The Dr is what Capitalism is run amuck. The upper class "white Dominicans" control everything. They drive mercedes and the poor. I went to the Blue mall in SD. I did not see one brown skin person. Not even sweeping the floors. The treatment of haitians is another example of racist core of these people You can not drink dominican the kool aid or water. I love the DR people but hate the upper class who drain the masses. In the US we still have a sizable middle class. Wealth distribution is an issue but we still have funds for infrastructure and education. The DR does not educate its people.[/QUOTE]Agreed.
I am always amazed at how the "99%" in the DR manage to scrape out a living, and often maintain a positive outlook, a sense of dignity, and a even a willingness to help out a stranger.
With masses of people looking for work, great natural resources, imagine what that country could do with a decent education system, and outside investment, where people at every level of the system are not skimming money.
Its hard for any investment to eventually reach the people when officials are stealing at every level.
[QUOTE=Yanqui69;1870280]I actually agree with most of what you say.
The US has habitually supported any brutal dictator in Latin America that swore he wasn't communist.
No disagreement there.
But Trujillo was removed over 50 years ago, and corruption has become the culture. Its not just wages for retail workers that are low. When cops get paid amazingly low wages, you can count on them being corrupt.
When a retail store or bank employee makes $200 US a month, not all attributable to US influence. Most expenses (food, utilities, etc) in the DR are not cheap. Many are more expensive than the US. You do not get ahead in the DR earning $200 a month.
A dentist I know of in Puerto Plata earns about $600 a month (a medical professional). Better off than most, but same goes for expenses.
My novia has a cousin who's a lawyer. A lawyer, for Pete's sake! And he emigrated to Florida, where he earns more money driving a truck out of Lakeland.
My novia has a business degree from UTEP in Santiago, and its hard as hell to find a job paying more than $200 a month, even for an educated person.
Her sales job for a plastics company paid exactly $250 US a month. The company laid off people, she can't find another job, and now wants to travel to the US, just so she can work a few months in a salon or waiting tables.
No disagreement on the inequality of wealth in America, but the "lower 99%" in the US are still much better off than the 99% in the DR.
On the subject of emigration, if persons can afford plane fare to visit family in the US, they aren't doing too bad financially. They likely have a decent income and can live well.
Many, however, can't.
Juan Luis Guerra and his band, 440, have a well-known song called, "Buscando Visa Para un Sueno" (Searching for a Visa For a Dream) precisely about someone seeking that magic ticket.
I think there is room for a difference of opinion on that issue.
However,
Rather than just providing your perspective, you make assumptions about me without knowing anything about me, and take the aggressive "flaming" attitude, not just offering a differing view, but trying to insult the writer. Uncalled for. Not sure what causes or justifies your attitude.
You presume I troll Sosua.
"But if you are sexual tourist, you probably haven't taken enough time from getting your dick off at the lowest possible price as many times as possible to look around and see the profound positive changes occurring in this country. ".
You know nothing about me.
Fact is, I haven't had a hooker in Sosua since 2005. Most of the last 7 or 8 years, I have spent my time in Santiago, not a sex tourist Mecca.
So, you're running your mouth in third gear, with brain in neutral.
"The fact that you choose to associate with hustlers and scammers should not color your views of the entire country."
You know nothing about me, Sunshine, so ranting about what is "fact" is beyond your knowledge.
If you have differing opinions or views, that's fine. But refrain from personal attacks on people you know absolutely nothing about. Anyone viewing any of my posts can see I do not "flame" people for having a different viewpoint.
Express your views freely, but keep your attitude, assumptions, and insults to yourself.[/QUOTE]Oh, and if you are lucky enough to find a job, to earn your $200-250 US a month, you are expected to work 6 days a week, 10-12 hours a day. Saturday is a "half-day. ".
[QUOTE=Yanqui69;1870396]Oh, and if you are lucky enough to find a job, to earn your $200-250 US a month, you are expected to work 6 days a week, 10-12 hours a day. Saturday is a "half-day. ".[/QUOTE]When I was in one of the malls in SD, I saw three girls working in a coffee shop. In about two hours, may be they had 15 customers. I asked the girls whether it is a slow day and they said most days the business is similar. I am sure we will not have three girls working here if the business is that slow. I saw the girls relaxed, eating their home food, sharing among themself and another pregnant store keeper came in and they we rubbing her belly. To me it looked like they were socializing, not working. Sure, they make so less money when you compare to folks here, but then their quality of life seemed to be better. Take US and Canada out of the American map, citizens in all rest of the countries make same kind of money. So I keep thinking whether they are making less money, or whether we are making way too much money? When a chica was complaining, I can understand her feelings, don't get me wrong about that, I do understand their struggles. They should stop comparing with USA, and do that with next door neighbours.
[QUOTE=Taboc;1870478]Sure, they make so less money when you compare to folks here, but then their quality of life seemed to be better. Take US and Canada out of the American map, citizens in all rest of the countries make same kind of money. So I keep thinking whether they are making less money, or whether we are making way too much money? When a chica was complaining, I can understand her feelings, don't get me wrong about that, I do understand their struggles. They should stop comparing with USA, and do that with next door neighbours.[/QUOTE]But their next door neighbors aren't the ones going there and doing what to them seems like throwing money around like there is no tomorrow. But you are exactly right. That is how most of the world lives. We are the exception.
And we think everyone should have what we have. When you have seen as much of the world as I have you know the shit just isn't going to happen, not even in 1 million years. I for one am thankful that my ancestors were on that boat that headed to the USA. Because if they were in that Brazil boat or that Dominican Republic boat, I would have been messed up in the game.