Stupid shit in Medellin

[QUOTE=JjBee62;2621476]You seem to be using that word wrong. There are still people arguing that the earth is flat, so a recently released study doesn't mean something is indisputable. In this case, if I'm seeing the same study there seem to be a few salient points you glossed over.
1. The study covers the risk of infected people infecting others with the Delta variant within their own households. That's hardly earthshaking news. Within your own household you're around those people throughout your total infectious period, so if you're infected, vaccinated or not, shouldn't make much difference in your own household.
2.
3.
Studies also indicate that significant loss of brain tissue is a common occurrence for people who have had COVID. Since unvaccinated people are more likely to contract the disease and are more likely to have serious symptoms. Well perhaps you should reconsider your remarks.
[/QUOTE]Hi JB, which "that word" do you refer to?

They are not "salient points". They are irrelevanat points to the point that I was making. There is a study that demonstrates vaxd are just as tansmissable as unvaxxed. Your first reaction is to dispute its veracity. Ok, then show a study that refutes this conclusion.

You seem to think that the population of the study (households) is in some way not representative of the wide rpopulation. Yet most people live in households. And if it was obvious that everyone on the household would get COVID regardless. Then both sample sizes would show 100% - which they were far from!

Your points 2 and 3 I think are irrelevant to my comment. I said vaxd and unvaxd are equally transmissable. I didn't comment on how long they were infectious of how likely they were to become infected.

As for "loss of brain tissue" - I have not read anything on that at all. Do you have any studies on that? But regardless, that w / be a danger to someone that contractfs COVID. So if the nonvaxd are more at danger to that, then that is a danger yo oneself, as I mentioned in my final comment - "the unvaxd are only an increased danger to themselves" - surely that's their decision. Like drinking alcohol, smoking, taking drugs, crossing the road.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2621513]JJBee is smarter than me? The guy who spread Covid across 2 continents and was so stupid that he did not know what he had? He got it, and I did not after being exposed hundreds of times, and he is smarter than me? Uh, okay..[/QUOTE]Except for this part, that turd knew very well what they had (as did everyone else hopefully including the authorities) because the hospital told her after they tested her after the ambulance brought her there.

But they wanted to go visit some 3rd world putas and knew they wouldn't need proof of a neg test upon arrival.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2621671]Peru locked down harder than anywhere and had the highest death rate in the world. With Villany's comment about genetic makeup, I guess the reason was when the virus had a chance to infect a Swede or Peruvian, it went for the Peruvian. Clearly, the Covid virus is racist and I think we need to intentionally infect more white people with Covid to offset this.

Villany, why are you attacking me instead of the WHO? Oh right, because you are a douche![/QUOTE]How many times can it be said. Statistics are far more persuasive than random speculation out of the Elvis school of random hunches. [URL]https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/[/URL].

Sweden 11.5% CoVid cases as a percent of the population.

Peru. 6. 6%. CoVid cases as a percent of the population.

The fact that Peru has more deaths as a percentage of population than Sweden despite having a much lower rate of infection can be attributed to Sweden having a better health care system.

[QUOTE=JustTK;2621368] So the vaxd and the unvaxd are equally as likely to pass the virus on to any vulnerable / imuno-compromised person.[/QUOTE]No, the study did not look at or compare the rates of transmission by vaxxed vs unvaxxed. If you really think it did, then pull out a quote from it. I read the whole thing. But then, I'm [B]unbiased[/B].

[QUOTE=JjBee62;2621570][URL]https://www.americanbar.org/groups/business_law/publications/blt/2020/04/border-searches/[/URL]

As requested, nipped in the bus. This is about searches at the US border, which are allowed if the officer[/QUOTE]Brother J, sometimes you write the longest unnecessary stuff. Me and my girl went to Exito yesterday where I bought a set of 2 9-cube silicone ice trays to keep in my luggage so I can make ice when I am staying in these airbnbs from now on. The price was 20,000 pesos, but when I checked out at the register it said 10,000 pesos and on the receipt it said 50% discount for "bolita verde."

Walking out of the store me and my girl started to debate what bolita verde was. Then I said fuck that. Let's just go back in here and do the simple thing: ASK!

Went to the customer service desk and there sat your cousin. I handed him the receipt and asked what bolita verde was. Well he wanted to see the item so I took it out of my gymsac and handed it to him. He went to punching all kind of stuff into the computer and giving us the history of Exito, how many employees were at that particular store, about how the security guard's cousin is in the army and so forth. Then, literally after 5 minutes, he finally told me the simple answer to what I had asked. It was a marked down item, but he had no idea why the tag did not specify that.

Once again I remind you that this discussion originally had NOTHING to do with the United States. This started because PolloNegro said that WHEN LEAVING MEDELLIN there is "a big increase in the airlines waiting until you enter into the tunnels headed to the plane and then snatching you aside for a strip search, computer search and a phone search, looking for inappropriate photos."

To which VasyaPetya responded asking "What if you refuse to unlock your phone for them or your laptop? They can't get into either of mine because mine are encrypted so good luck to them. "

So this was NOT about searches in the US. You hijacked it and made it that way, and went all around the world in 1 week in the process.

[QUOTE=JjBee62;2621570]And finally, how does asking one person at the airport a question about the legality of a search provide a definitive answer? I can spend the next 3 weeks giving examples showing how completely useless that is. That's almost as definitive as asking someone driving a car what's the proper valve lash on a Gen 1 413 hemi with solid rockers.[/QUOTE]Do you honestly believe that I was an officer in the United States Navy and worked to obtain a masters degree and would not obtain information from a reputable source? You act like I am just going to waltz into the airport and ask the first swinging richard that I pass about searches in the airport. I have enough sense to go directly ask people that would be charged with such searches or to the office that they come from. I have heard of a dumb question P. O. , but you must have been the first dumb response P. O.

[QUOTE=JustTK;2621731]Hi JB, which "that word" do you refer to?

They are not "salient points". They are irrelevanat points to the point that I was making. There is a study that demonstrates vaxd are just as tansmissable as unvaxxed. Your first reaction is to dispute its veracity. Ok, then show a study that refutes this conclusion.

You seem to think that the population of the study (households) is in some way not representative of the wide rpopulation. Yet most people live in households. And if it was obvious that everyone on the household would get COVID regardless. Then both sample sizes would show 100% - which they were far from!

Your points 2 and 3 I think are irrelevant to my comment. I said vaxd and unvaxd are equally transmissable. I didn't comment on how long they were infectious of how likely they were to become infected.

As for "loss of brain tissue" - I have not read anything on that at all. Do you have any studies on that? But regardless, that w / be a danger to someone that contractfs COVID. So if the nonvaxd are more at danger to that, then that is a danger yo oneself, as I mentioned in my final comment - "the unvaxd are only an increased danger to themselves" - surely that's their decision. Like drinking alcohol, smoking, taking drugs, crossing the road.[/QUOTE]The word you used incorrectly was "indisputable. " A study, particularly one which you misrepresented does not make anything "indisputable. " It might lead to a consensus within the appropriate scientific community, but there will still be those who dispute it. I'm somewhat embarrassed for you that I need to point that out again, since my first paragraph made it abundantly clear.

More embarrassment for you is coming. I didn't dispute the study which you mentioned. In fact I quite clearly agreed with the study in my first point. I suppose redundancy is the order of the day, but you failed to understand something which I wrote in simple and clear terms.

I'll go over point 1 again. The study you referred to showed that [B]persons infected with Covid [/B], regardless of vaccination status were equally likely to infect others [B]within their own household.[/B] "Within their own household is a critical part of the study, and twice now you've omitted it. I must conclude this was not by accident and your intention is to misrepresent the study.

That is not irrelevant, it's clearly a salient point. Let's try this it like this: If I point out a study which shows following a vegan diet greatly reduces life expectancy, but leave out "if they try to forcibly change the diet of carnivorous animals", I've misrepresented the study, by claiming something the study did not show.

The study you feel compelled to misrepresent does not show vaccinated and unvaccinated people transmit the disease equally and the study clearly states that is not the case.

Yes, I think, actually "know" is the correct word, that within the household is not representative to within the entire population. Perhaps your household and your behavior outside of the household is unique.

If you live with a domestic partner, within your household you probably spend several hours every day sleeping next to them. I'm guess that you don't spend several hours sleeping next to 25% of the people who you see outside of your household. Am I wrong? If I meet you for lunch will we need to go lay down together for 8 hours? That's got to be awkward. "Hi Doc. Here for my annual checkup. Do you want to sleep with me before or after you check my prostate?

If you live with children, depending on their age you probably come within close physical contact with them frequently. You share meals together, sit and watch TV together, work on homework or play games together. How often, while at the grocery store, do you sit down on a couch with the cashier and watch a movie together? I guess that would explain why the cashiers are so slow.

Within the household is not an acceptable analogy for the general population. If you had read beyond the headline you would have seen the study recognized that fact.

No. The transmission rate within all households would not be expected to be 100%. First, not all households are the same. A household with a single parent and 2 late teen children would likely have a lower household transmission rate than a household with 2 parents and 4 children under the age of 5. A household of 3 living in. 6,000 square foot home would likely have a lower household transmission rate than a family of 10 living in an 800 square foot home.

My points 2 and 3 are only irrelevant if you insist that everyone spends 8 hours daily in a bed with a significant number of the people they interact with. I guess I'm going to need a much bigger bed, because according to your belief, I'm supposed to be sleeping for about 8 hours daily with about 10-12 people.

If instead, you had read the study, and can count to 20 without removing your shoes and socks, then point 2 and 3 are also salient. Might as well get those shoes off because we're going to do some basic math.

Assuming person 1 and 2 become contagious on the same day, person 1 is vaccinated, 2 isn't. The contagious period for each is 8 and 10 days respectively. Next, infection depends upon 2 main factors, time and distance. The closer an infected person is to an uninfected person, the greater the chance of infection. The longer time spent in close proximity, the greater the chance of infection. There's an upper limit for each. Once you're close enough and have spent enough time within that distance, the risk of transmission reaches a maximum. For the sake of discussion we'll say 6 inches and 15 minutes is optimum for transmission. Optimum transmission can be reached quicker at less distance, or can require longer exposure at a greater distance. Beyond a certain distance or less than a certain time and transmission rate approaches zero. Did you follow that?

Within your household, if you're infected, you will likely reach optimum transmission rate with some member of your household for every day of your infectious period. Whether that period is 8 or 10 days makes little difference because of the frequency of reaching optimum transmission rate. This is why the study shows, within the household, transmission rate is equal, regardless of vaccination status. Put an infected person in a household, they'll likely infect someone else in the household.

However, not everyone lives in a household and not every household has an infected person. That's where points 2 and 3 come into play.

If I'm vaccinated, the risk of becoming infected is less. That means, if everyone in the household is vaccinated, the risk of anyone in the household is lower than if everyone is unvaccinated. If nobody within the household becomes infected, then the transmission rate within the household remains at 0.

Until someone in the household becomes infected, the study shows nothing. If you have 20 households, 10 vaccinated, 10 not and 3 unvaccinated households end up with someone infected, while only 2 vaccinated households have someone infected we can separate the households into 5 groups.

1. The group of all houses, where unvaccinated households have a greater risk of infection.

2. Vaccinated households, where members have a lower risk of infection, than group 3.

3. Unvaccinated households, where members have a higher risk of infection than group 2.

4. Infected households, where vaccinated and unvaccinated have an equal chance of infection.

5. Uninfected households.

Only when you limit yourself to infected households does vaccine status not matter for infection risk.

It took me less than 30 seconds to find the studies on loss of brain mass. If you're interested in the findings, invest 30 seconds. If instead you are choosing the head in the sand approach, there's no benefit in me leading you to something you're planning to ignore.

Your final statement is clearly false. The examples you gave demonstrate the statement is false. You might as well say "hair is not flammable, just like wood and kerosene are not flammable.

Unvaccinated people are not only a risk to themselves, same with drinking alcohol, taking drugs, smoking and crossing the road.

1. Drinking alcohol. It's still in the headlines, NFL wide receiver Henry Riggs III was arrested and charged with DWI after he crashed into another car and killed a woman. It's reported he was driving at speeds up to 156 MPH before the accident.

2. Taking drugs. I'm running out of time, but all it takes is reading the news to find examples of drug users committing violent crimes.

3. Smoking. Just search for "cigarette caused fatal Derby house fire. ".

4. Crossing the road. Have you ever seen what happens when someone steps out into the road in front of a 1987 Camaro traveling at a high rate of speed? The driver of the car didn't survive. Every year about 200 people are killed by deer crossing the road.

And finally, unvaccinated people are only a danger to themselves. That would be laughable if it wasn't so macabre.

At the beginning of June an unvaccinated person came into my home. I was vaccinated. He had symptoms, but didn't think it was Covid and he had already stated he wasn't going to get tested. As a result I was infected, even though I was vaccinated. Forget about what I experienced with COVID. My uncovered medical expenses were almost $5,000. The 2 weeks of work I missed, cost me another $4,000.

In addition, there were 3 other people he was in contact with who were hospitalized for Covid symptoms. 1 was vaccinated, 1 wasn't and the third was unknown status. The definitely unvaccinated person died. The others survived.

I'm going out on a limb and assume none of that is going to register with you. Most people either understand it right away, or they figure it out at the funeral.

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2621783]Brother J, sometimes you write the longest unnecessary stuff. Me and my girl went to Exito yesterday where I bought a set of 2 9-cube silicone ice trays to keep in my luggage so I can make ice when I am staying in these airbnbs from now on. The price was 20,000 pesos, but when I checked out at the register it said 10,000 pesos and on the receipt it said 50% discount for "bolita verde."

Walking out of the store me and my girl started to debate what bolita verde was. Then I said fuck that. Let's just go back in here and do the simple thing: ASK!

Went to the customer service desk and there sat your cousin. I handed him the receipt and asked what bolita verde was. Well he wanted to see the item so I took it out of my gymsac and handed it to him. He went to punching all kind of stuff into the computer and giving us the history of Exito, how many employees were at that particular store, about how the security guard's cousin is in the army and so forth. Then, literally after 5 minutes, he finally told me the simple answer to what I had asked. It was a marked down item, but he had no idea why the tag did not specify that.

Once again I remind you that this discussion originally had NOTHING to do with the United States. This started because PolloNegro said that WHEN LEAVING MEDELLIN there is "a big increase in the airlines waiting until you enter into the tunnels headed to the plane and then snatching you aside for a strip search, computer search and a phone search, looking for inappropriate photos.".[/QUOTE]I really should write down the responses I expect from people and timestamp them, to show I'm either a prophet or you're completely predictable.

My discussion of what's legal in the US was to illustrate the exact path taken in the exact situation being discussed. I even simplified it for you. This was after, days ago stating that the legality of a search would be something determined by the Colombian courts.

It's like I handed you a dog turd, told you not to eat it, and you munched it down. Then I showed you a dog dropping a deuce explained what dog shit was and next thing you're whipping out a napkin and chowing down.

Should I be using smaller words? I'm trying to figure out why you can't understand something which is so incredibly basic.

If some legal authority in Colombia, or any other country in the world requests you to unlock your phone it's legal at that moment. It remains legal until the action is challenged in that country's courts and a ruling is handed down. Unless the ruling disallows any such searches for any reason, it remains legal, however there may be restrictions. I'm fairly certain that the Colombian courts are not set up at the airports, where they can issue an immediate ruling if someone objects to the search.

That's the way things work. Everywhere. Unless there's something in the Colombian Constitution prohibiting searching cell phones (take a wild guess why that's unlikely, it's related to why the US Constitution fails to mention the internet), any type of search not previously declared illegal by the courts is legal. Any type of search not previously declared illegal by the courts is legal. Any type of search not previously declared illegal by the courts is legal. Do I need to copy and paste 30 more times?

You want to accuse me of hijacking the topic after you lead off with getting stopped by the cops in the DR after picking up a hooker in front of them? Seriously? Let's not forget the mustard packets, pencils and hot sauce. That's, I think the word is, "hypocrisy. ".

I clearly stated that my link of the legality of such searches in the US was to illustrate how the process works. I've restated the process again. Apparently you're on of those officers who would have caused me to scream "How the fuck did someone so fucking clueless ever get commissioned?" That only happened once, although I'm guessing if you'd been in my chain of command it would have been a regular occurrence.

What does having a Master's Degree have to do with it? I spent too much time working with people with PhD's and MS' to think that a piece of sheepskin has any relationship to ability.

Using your Naval Officer experience (Ensign Senior Grade was it?) and your Master's Degree, tell me where in the airport will you find the person responsible for establishing policy for every international airport in Colombia? I'll make it even easier. Where, in which airport in the US will you find the office of the head of DHS? I'll make it even easier. On which US Navy ship will you find the office of the CNO?

I would think a former Naval Officer would have an inherent grasp of this, but apparently you were a slow learner. Rules come from the top down and they seldom come with explanations. So unless you're talking with the person who originated a rule, the chance of getting an explanation is slim to none. When you issued orders did you explain to everyone involved why they were chosen for the task and how everyone else was chosen for the task?

"Helmsman 5° left rudder. Come around to bearing 275. "

"Why are you giving me that order?

"Because you're the Helmsman."

"But why do you want me to turn the rudder 5° to the left?

"Because there is a ship in front of us that we're about to hit."

"But why can't I use 5° right rudder?

"Because. Can someone find out why the starboard lookout is screaming?

Entiendes? If they are searching phones at the Barranquilla airport, you might find someone who will tell you they are searching phones. He might even tell you why. It's unlikely he's going to fall his boss and route you all the way to the top so that the ultimate authority can explain to you the legal justification.

However, if they are not searching phones at the Barranquilla airport, you're just going to find people who can tell you they aren't searching phones. In either case you've learned absolutely nothing definitive.

However, since you erroneously claimed to want to nip it in the bud, go right ahead. I will need the name of the person and their title, including their location. I will also expect a transcript of the entire conversation. While you're at it, names and titles of the people you went through to get to the top. Otherwise, I'm going to assume you're just making shit up. Again.

[QUOTE=Villainy;2621502]I see your a proud graduate of the Elvis school of illogic. I said that Sweden has strong genetic similarities with its neighbors Norway, Finland and Denmark.

[URL]https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2013/05/16/a-revealing-map-of-the-worlds-most-and-least-ethnically-diverse-countries/[/URL]

If you are capable of reading a map you will see that Norway, Sweden, Finland and Denmark are among the most genetically homogenous. In addition they have very similar climatic characteristics and with the exception of Denmark very strong population density similarities as well. This makes them a perfect group to compare and contrast.

Obviously you think that is cherrypicking. I question whether you have ever seen the inside of a math or statistics textbook..[/QUOTE]This is laughable, around 30% of the population in Sweden are immigrants or children of immigrants while in Finland it's closer to 5%. Good luck finding any Swede to agree with you that Sweden is "genetically homogenous".

The unemployment rate in Sweden is about 10% while it's 3% in Norway.

Sweden is the rape and gang shooting capital of Europe, while Norway and Finland isn't close to stealing that title.

You thinking that all the Nordic countries are more or less the same is simply a result of your ignorance. I apologize for giving you some insight to what's really going in in the Nordics.

I can't help to notice that of the eight "successful" countries that you mentioned six of them are Asian countries and the other two are islands isolated from the rest of the World. Your argument only strengthen my argument that a lockdown isn't a guarantee for anything.

But wtf do I know, maybe France, Italy, Belgium, Spain and Portugal didn't have any lockdowns.

[QUOTE=Villainy;2621759]How many times can it be said. Statistics are far more persuasive than random speculation out of the Elvis school of random hunches. [URL]https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/[/URL].

Sweden 11.5% CoVid cases as a percent of the population.

Peru. 6. 6%. CoVid cases as a percent of the population.

The fact that Peru has more deaths as a percentage of population than Sweden despite having a much lower rate of infection can be attributed to Sweden having a better health care system.[/QUOTE]Or maybe it's because Sweden have tested more than twice as many per capita than Peru. Who the fuck knows? LMFAO!

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2621513]The WHO said the only reason for lockdowns was the temporary spread in the delay of cases. Got that douche? Lockdowns do not prevent the spread of Covid. Dr Nabarro made the statements in an interview with The Spectator.
"The only time we believe a lockdown in justified is to buy you time to reorganise, regroup, rebalance your resources; protect your health workers who are exhausted," Dr Nabarro said.
"But by and large, we'd rather not do it."[/QUOTE][URL]https://khn.org/news/fact-check-world-health-organization-did-not-change-its-lockdown-stance-or-admit-president-trump-was-right/[/URL]

We checked with Nabarro to find out if the clip accurately reflected the points he raised during a nearly 20-minute interview. He responded, by email: "My comments were taken totally out of context. The WHO position is consistent."

To test this premise, we looked at statements by WHO leaders over the course of the pandemic. In the multiple media briefings we reviewed from February onward, the WHO appeared consistent in its messaging about what lockdowns should be deployed for: to give governments time to respond to a high number of COVID-19 cases and get a reprieve for health care workers. Although WHO leaders in February supported the shutting down of the city of Wuhan, China, the presumed source of the COVID-19 outbreak, they have also acknowledged that lockdowns can have serious economic effects, and that robust testing, contact tracing and physical distancing are usually preferable to completely locking down.

So, I guess you forgot to tell the WHO that they changed their position to yours. They never did. They advocate for extensive testing, contact tracing, strong health care options and lockdowns to contain out of control outbreaks.

(Which is why the several countries in SE Asia have done so much better. (I. E. Singapore, Vietnam, Laos, South Korea, Indonesia and a few others Australia, New Zealand and Japan) They have all used lockdowns, heavy testing, contact tracing etc.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2621513]Bill Maher spoke out against lockdowns, and the entire world save for a few places are coming out of it.[/QUOTE]Seriously? The guy is a comedian. I guess that is from the School of Elvis. I'll listen to a comedian in a time of crises if I like what he says but scientists? Screw them. Great Elvis logic.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2621513]The reason cases in Colombia are lower is the vaccine? Uh, no, douche, the vaccine does not prevent the spread of Covid. That is a fact, deal with it.[/QUOTE]From WHO website:

What are the benefits of getting vaccinated?

The COVID-19 vaccines produce protection against the disease, as a result of developing an immune response to the SARS-Cov-2 virus. Developing immunity through vaccination means there is a reduced risk of developing the illness and its consequences. This immunity helps you fight the virus if exposed. Getting vaccinated may also protect people around you, because if you are protected from getting infected and from disease, you are less likely to infect someone else. This is particularly important to protect people at increased risk for severe illness from COVID-19, such as healthcare providers, older or elderly adults, and people with other medical conditions.

So you see. Elvis, your analytical lapses continue. Yes if you have the disease, the vaccine doesn't prevent your spreading it to others. The point is: if you have been vaccinated [B] you are less likely to get it in the first place and therefore less likely to spread it[/B].

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2621513]Stanford analyzed all the interventions and showed that doing a little intervention like Sweden had the same results as extreme lockdowns.[/QUOTE]And they also said that their study was very early (March 2020) and that there was much to learn as events unfolded and their conclusions were subject to revision. A fact you kind of like to gloss over.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2621513]That is science, douche, not picking out a few countries and getting the results you want. You can pick 4 points on a graph and argue anything. Correlation does not equal causation.[/QUOTE]You shouldn't use big words like: Science, Correlation and Causation. You simply have no idea what they mean or how to apply them.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2621513]JJBee is smarter than me? .....[/QUOTE]Feeling insecure?

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2621513]Let me ask you something douche. As for my prediction being wrong, did YOU predict a 100 million Americans would get sick with Covid despite everything that was done? ........given that 1 in 3 Americans got Covid anyway, did we accomplish anything? Thing that I did predict is that the "scientists" would say no bad how things got that they would not admit to fucking up. They would say, "Can you imagine if we did nothing?[/QUOTE][URL]https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/[/URL]

How many times can I say this: You should do your homework before you post your random machinations. If you check Worldometers you will see that the US has only had 47 million cases not the 100 million you came up with. That isn't 1 in 3 that is more like 1 in 7.

I would respond to more of your nonsense but it gets tiring correcting the paper of a student who clearly should be moved back a few grades.

[QUOTE=JjBee62;2621793]The word you used incorrectly was "indisputable. " A study, particularly one which you misrepresented does not make anything "indisputable. " It might lead to a consensus within the appropriate scientific community, but there will still be those who dispute it. I'm somewhat embarrassed for you that I need to point that out again, since my first paragraph made it abundantly clear.
More embarrassment for you is coming. I didn't dispute the study which you mentioned. In fact I quite clearly agreed with the study in my first point. I suppose redundancy is the order of the day, but you failed to understand something which I wrote in simple and clear terms.
I'll go over point 1 again. The study you referred to showed that [B]persons infected with Covid [/B], regardless of vaccination status were equally likely to infect others [B]within their own household.[/B] "Within their own household is a critical part of the study, and twice now you've omitted it. I must conclude this was not by accident and your intention is to misrepresent the study.
That is not irrelevant, it's clearly a salient point..[/QUOTE]Sry JB, I got 3 paras in and gave up. I don't have the time or enthusiasm to read long dialogues of snarky sarcasm and misrepresentation. So I am afraid the "embarrassment" will pass me by. I can say from just the opening 3 paras that you are very wrong. I DID quite clearly note that the study was about households. I even wrote 'You seem to think that the population of the study (households) is in some way not representative of the wide rpopulation. ' So how you can claim I ignored it, is beyond me. Clearly you just read in to things whatever you want. I have been down that path with you before and it is not an event I am keen to repeat.

Contracting the virus from a fellow household member. I see nothing wrong in a study based on that. The environment is the same for both groups of people. Both groups of people were equally ikely to spread the virus. I will just ask one question. Why would that result be any different in any other environment? If they are at home they both spread it to 25%Vof vaxd household members and 38% of unvaxd household members. In other environments no doubt the spread rates will be different to those 2 rates, but there is no reason to think that vaxd and unvaxd would diverge from being equally infectious. We certainly don't have any evidence to support that idea. So whatever you put forward would be speculative.

[QUOTE=JjBee62;2621820]tell me where in the airport will you find the person responsible for establishing policy for every international airport in Colombia?[/QUOTE]I am like JK. I am not about to read all of that off-base shit! Whoever said anything about finding the person responsible for the policy? Why do you always tend to make the simplest things so complicated?

Any fool can go up to any policeman and ask if there is a code for someone not stopping at a stop sign and they should be able to tell you which code it is. The same as one could walk up to an immigration officer, security personnel, military personnel, or their office in the airport and ask the question about unlocking electronics.

It is not the brain surgery that you make things out to be. No need to hunt down the president of the country and ensure he has his nuclear codes with him in order to pose a mundane 2-second question. Why do you continually insist on taking the long way to a short cut?

[QUOTE=ShooBree;2621839]This is laughable, around 30% of the population in Sweden are immigrants or children of immigrants while in Finland it's closer to 5%. Good luck finding any Swede to agree with you that Sweden is "genetically homogenous".
I can't help to notice that of the eight "successful" countries that you mentioned six of them are Asian countries and the other two are islands isolated from the rest of the World. Your argument only strengthen my argument that a lockdown isn't a guarantee for anything.
But wtf do I know, maybe France, Italy, Belgium, Spain and Portugal didn't have any lockdowns.[/QUOTE]They are laughable with their ignorant certainty. Its really a quite distasteful characteristic in a few folk here. You are quite right to point out that confirmed cases are a ridiculous measure to use for anything. In fact, confirmed death rates are also quite useless. This is bcos different countries test at different concentration levels, and also have different rules for declaring deaths and measures for analysing cause of death. A far better measure is "excess deaths". You might find this website useful: [URL]https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america?view=cumulative-deaths&tab=trend[/URL].

It shows excess deaths in each country since covid. Stats which are far harder to argue with.

Sweden has had 18.400 excees deaths out of a population of 10.2 million, whiich is 1. 800 deaths per million.

Indonesia has had 475.500 excees deaths out of a population of 277 million, whiich is 1. 700 deaths per million.

Indoneisia has had cruel lockdowns which destroyed the economy. Sweden did not. I am struggling to see how Indo is a success and Sweden is a failure.

South Korea also avoided lockdown. It has had 2. 700 excees deaths out of a population of 51 million, whiich is 53 deaths per million.

I think there is a clear winner here, folks.

Lockdowns were never necessary. When we go through the next viral crisis, I am sure many countries will not use the technique.

[QUOTE=Villainy;2621878]What are the benefits of getting vaccinated?

The COVID-19 vaccines produce protection against the disease, as a result of developing an immune response to the SARS-Cov-2 virus. Developing immunity through vaccination means there is a reduced risk of developing the illness and its consequences. This immunity helps you fight the virus if exposed. Getting vaccinated may also protect people around you, because if you are protected from getting infected and from disease, you are less likely to infect someone else. This is particularly important to protect people at increased risk for severe illness from COVID-19, such as healthcare providers, older or elderly adults, and people with other medical conditions.

So you see. Elvis, your analytical lapses continue. Yes if you have the disease, the vaccine doesn't prevent your spreading it to others. The point is: if you have been vaccinated you are less likely to get it in the first place and therefore less likely to spread it.

How many times can I say this: You should do your homework before you post your random machinations. If you check Worldometers you will see that the US has only had 47 million cases not the 100 million you came up with. That isn't 1 in 3 that is more like 1 in 7..[/QUOTE]You [blue][Deleted by Admin][/blue] really like to argue about things that have been settled. WHO is denying that it ever said lockdowns were its primary method of containing the virus. I personally think they lied about that to cover their ass but it does not matter, it is settled science that lockdowns do not work to control the spread of the virus, so I do not know what the fuck you are arguing about.

As for the vaccine preventing transmission, that is not only obvious from the data, the CDC has come out and said the vaccine does not prevent transmission, so again I do not know what the fuck you are talking about.

The number of USA cases recorded is 47 million. CDC estimates put it at around 100 million. Again, you are attributing their number to me.

Usually when you douches are so badly beaten, and this is about a dumb a post as it gets, you do not admit you are wrong and will get into defining what words like transmission, estimates, and lockdown are (Like Clinton: that depends on what you definition of is is). I do not mind debates where I learn something with a seasoned opponent but you are engaged in a moronic pissing match where you are lying your ass off, and that means you go on ignore.

[QUOTE=JustTK;2621894]Contracting the virus from a fellow household member. I see nothing wrong in a study based on that. The environment is the same for both groups of people. Both groups of people were equally ikely to spread the virus. I will just ask one question. Why would that result be any different in any other environment? If they are at home they both spread it to 25%Vof vaxd household members and 38% of unvaxd household members. In other environments no doubt the spread rates will be different to those 2 rates, but there is no reason to think that vaxd and unvaxd would diverge from being equally infectious. We certainly don't have any evidence to support that idea. So whatever you put forward would be speculative.[/QUOTE]You are dead on JustTK. I actually think the vaccine worked to prevent spread early on and then Delta hit and changed everything. Birdbrain is off the reservation again and wanting to believe the vaccine prevents infection (even after he got vaccinated and spread Covid himself LOL).

Thing is early on I did not see any cases of asymptomatic transmission but Delta is different. Now Covid patients routinely have no idea where they got it and asymptomatic spread is very real IMO. The notion that you can transmit the virus and be asymptomatic is IMO very real now.

But you do not even have to trust the CDC when it says the vaccine does not prevent transmission. If you look at the data, you see the UK, USA, and Israel have a huge amount of cases and they are among the most vaccinated in the world. There is not one speck of data supporting that the vaccine prevents transmission now but these Democratic douches keep insisting that it does based on "logic."

The funny part is the people who vote Democratic (like Bill Maher and the Atlantic writer) have been like enough is enough. They are saying, "Screw the masks. Screw lockdowns. Screw the notion that drug company immunity is better than natural immunity", but the hard core douches do not get it. They are constantly comparing this shitty vaccine with vaccines that really work.

I have to wonder if they are largely living off government payouts. I actually hope it is that. I would rather believe that they be paid off than be this dumb.

I have been in Colombia most of the last two years. The only people I know that had COVID were my co-worker, her family, and family friend.

Overweight mom 35 non-smoker had a few bad days of it but fine. Four female kids age 6 to 14 got over it quickly. Thin dad 35 had the most trouble in the family. He had trouble breathing but as soon as his lungs felt better he would go outside and smoke and the breathing issues returned. Surprise surprise. The family friend was a guy 40, slightly overweight, smoked a little, was gay, and had prior health issues (health issues and severity unknown) and he died. The results matched my thoughts on it. Plus, the endless 3 weeks together nearly ended in divorce.

Studies are stupid like statistics. You can get any result that you want out of them. Every 10 years there is a new study such as coffee is good for you, then bad for you going on for the last 40 years. Same with wine, beer, chocolate, and even aspirin.

Fake news states that 5 million people have died. Out of 8 billion people that means the death rate is a huge whopping. 000625% For this we have destroyed entire economies and peoples ways of life. Supply chain issues and lack of personal and government money to hand out will cause many of the starving people worldwide to receive even less food supplies this year and easily the next year. Their death rate could surpass the COVID death rate.

November 3 2021 CDC Covid ratings 1 low, 2 moderate, 3 high, 4 very high.

USA 4 very high.

Colombia 2 moderate.

China 1 low.

You have to be an idiot if you trust the CDC.

No I do not care if you get it because no matter what it will find you. I would rather get Covid and what ever happens happens than live a life of fear and control by governments. Even if the death rate increases ten times to 50 million that would still only be a. 00625% chance of dying.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2621513]JJBee is smarter than me? The guy who spread Covid across 2 continents and was so stupid that he did not know what he had? He got it, and I did not after being exposed hundreds of times, and he is smarter than me? Uh, okay.[/QUOTE]Almost certainly. If you remember I offered you a wager quite some time ago. We both take the same battery of tests, administered by the same psychologist at the same time and then we publish the results here. Highest score wins the wager. You will also recall that you failed to acknowledge my offer, the same as you refused to acknowledge the wager I proposed when you declared you would take the under on the US death toll reaching 80000.

Since it seems unlikely you will ever put your money where your mouth is on which of us is more intelligent, let's examine some anecdotal evidence.

You claim I spread COVID across 2 continents. It appears one of us doesn't know the difference between continent and country. It also appears one of us is lying. There were no cases in north America which connected to me. Unless you wish to claim someone on my one flight while I was contagious, was infected by me. If that's the claim you wish to make provide 3 pieces of information: Flight Number, my seat number and the seat number of the person you claim I infected. If you wish to claim it was someone I was in close proximity with, just provide the date, city and state.

I do claim responsibility for infecting one person in Colombia, however, none of her contacts became infected during her infectious period. That hardly qualifies as spreading COVID across 2 continents. Again, if you wish to claim she or I infected others, provide names and dates along with test results.

Since you are also claiming you were exposed "hundreds of times" provide some names, dates and locations of those hundreds of exposures, including proximity of each infected perso, duration of exposure and test results for each infected person you were exposed to.

While we're at it, either you are unable to express yourself clearly or you are claiming that whether or not a person becomes infected with COVID correlates with intelligence. Provide the study which confirms this.

Of course there is a clincher. During the same time period when you claimed I was spreading COVID across Colombia, you also claim the end of lockdowns caused COVID cases in Colombia to drop. Do you see the discrepancy? The end of the lockdowns, according to you, caused COVID transmission to drop, but I, again according to you, caused COVID transmission to increase. Care to explain how a rate can drop and increase at the same time?

There's really no need for you to continue to prove which of us is more intelligent. However, if you wish to quantify the difference, I'll place $5,000 on the table. Ready to prove your claim?

[QUOTE=JustTK;2621894]Sry JB, I got 3 paras in and gave up. I don't have the time or enthusiasm to read long dialogues of snarky sarcasm and misrepresentation. So I am afraid the "embarrassment" will pass me by. I can say from just the opening 3 paras that you are very wrong. I DID quite clearly note that the study was about households. I even wrote 'You seem to think that the population of the study (households) is in some way not representative of the wide rpopulation. ' So how you can claim I ignored it, is beyond me. Clearly you just read in to things whatever you want. I have been down that path with you before and it is not an event I am keen to repeat.

Contracting the virus from a fellow household member. I see nothing wrong in a study based on that. The environment is the same for both groups of people. Both groups of people were equally ikely to spread the virus. I will just ask one question..[/QUOTE]It's not even my birthday and first you and then MrE come along and bestow such lavish gifts on me. I'm damn near speechless. Allow me to elaborate on your unintended generosity.

You got 3 paragraphs in and then gave up? Yet you then responded to my post beginning with the 5th paragraph. We'll get to that part in a moment. But first:

[QUOTE]I DID quite clearly note that the study was about households.[/QUOTE]However, your original post states:

[QUOTE=JustTK;2621368]I saw a few days ago reports of a study published in Bloomberg, Fortune, BBC, Guardian (look them up on search "vaccinated just as likely to spread virus as unvaccinated" that verify that the vaxd are just as transmissable WRT the virus as the unvaxd. So the vaxd and the unvaxd are equally as likely to pass the virus on to any vulnerable / imuno-compromised person.

So now it is really indisputable that the unvaxd are only an increased danger to themselves. So there is no more excuse for the persecution of the unvaxd to continue.[/QUOTE]Notice how you failed to mention the limits of the study? It was not until I pointed out that you misrepresented the study, and specified it was limited to within the household and the Delta variant, that you applied the false equivalence of outside the household and inside the household.

There is a reason why the study limits its findings to within the household, and specifies that vaccination overall reduces the risk of infection and that vaccination reduces the infectious period. That reason is called "peer review. ".

For any study to be accepted by the scientific community it must undergo peer review. For those who don't understand it involves other qualified persons examining the data, the methodology and the conclusions to look for errors, inconsistencies or outright fraud. Andrew Wakefield comes to mind.

If the study claimed the data from within households directly correlates to the entire population, it would have been immediately and universally rejected. That's like looking at 5 puppies, noting that 2 are black and declaring 40% of all dogs are black. The study has no data to support that their findings can be applied universally. In fact, they state clearly within the study that the findings are not applicable universally.

However, you have continued to assert that the findings, which the study says aren't true outside of the household, are true outside the household. And I've already explained twice why your claim is incorrect.

Now let's get back to where you decided to respond to something which you claimed you didn't read. I've seen this many times, even before MrE thought you had figured out how to squeeze your way between Scylla and Charybdis. Here's an alternative version of what happened, because your response, to the contents of my 5th paragraph and beyond, which you claimed to not have read, quite clearly demonstrates your version is false.

In my 6th paragraph I gave a simple example which clearly demonstrates the difference between within the household and outside the household; the person you share a bed with inside the household. I'm guessing your visits to restaurants and grocery stores don't also include spending 8 hours (more or less) in bed with an employee or fellow customer. Am I incorrect?

I'm certain I am correct. I've spent a lot of time in stores and restaurants. I spent a few years delivering food to stores and restaurants. Although I did once get a blowjob inside the cooler from the manager of a convenience store, I didn't spend 8 hours in bed with her, or any other employee in the 50 places I serviced each week.

My alternative version? You realized you were unable to come up with a rebuttal. It's quite obvious spending 8 hours in bed with someone every day, maximizes the possibility of infection, while a few minutes 3-5 feet away from someone separated from you by plexiglass minimizes the risk of infection.

When you were faced with admitting your error, you decided to go the ostrich route: stick your head in the sand and pretend you saw nothing. But you made a common mistake. You felt the need to contest what I wrote, even though you claimed to have not read it.

There's no need to go on. You've demonstrated you are inherently dishonest and lack integrity.

However, I will give MrE his own response, because I have integrity.

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2621898]I am like JK. I am not about to read all of that off-base shit! Whoever said anything about finding the person responsible for the policy? Why do you always tend to make the simplest things so complicated?

Any fool can go up to any policeman and ask if there is a code for someone not stopping at a stop sign and they should be able to tell you which code it is. The same as one could walk up to an immigration officer, security personnel, military personnel, or their office in the airport and ask the question about unlocking electronics.

It is not the brain surgery that you make things out to be. No need to hunt down the president of the country and ensure he has his nuclear codes with him in order to pose a mundane 2-second question. Why do you continually insist on taking the long way to a short cut?[/QUOTE]If you're not going to read it, why and how did you respond to it?

You can read my response to JustTK to understand how you failed the integrity test.

Let's go straight to your newest line of bullshit.

Just about any police man can tell you the codes for offenses he regularly write tickets for. That's a long way from any policeman knowing everything within the vehicular code. Test it if you like. Ask 3 different police man what the code is for violating the bridge law and for an explanation of the bridge law.

Or try this. You fly through a lot of airports and probably know the code for the ones you frequently visit. If I give you the name of any airport in the world, can you tell me the airport code from memory?

I actually had an experience with what you claim every police officer will know. Two experiences, but I'll only go with one.

30 years ago I worked at a truck dealership in San Diego. We sold medium duty trucks. There are 2 main classes of trucks; 26,000# and under and over 26,000#. There are different rules for each including, in some states different speed limits. Over 26 k is considered a Truck, under isn't.

One customer had a 26 k truck but he added a trailer, which made his combined gross vehicle weight rating over 26 k. He called wanting an answer. I called the California Highway Patrol and they didn't know I called CalTrans, the California Department of transportation and they didn't know. So I opened up the California Vehicle code and found the particular code. However, it was ambiguous.

Once again I called the CHP and CalTrans. They read the code and give me 2 different answers.

Let me know if you ever want to try having integrity.

[QUOTE=JjBee62;2622068]It's not even my birthday and first you and then MrE come along and bestow such lavish gifts on me. I'm damn near speechless. Allow me to elaborate on your unintended generosity.[/QUOTE]Wah, wah, wah, Sry JB I cant hear u. I am not going to waste my time chatting w someone who cannot maintain a reasonable and friendly tone.

[QUOTE=LoveItHere69;2621928]...Studies are stupid like statistics. You can get any result that you want out of them. Every 10 years there is a new study such as coffee is good for you, then bad for you going on for the last 40 years. Same with wine, beer, chocolate, and even aspirin.[/QUOTE]People who are unable to perform basic math (and not to name names but there are several on here. Just read more of this thread) usually feel statistics are bogus. Mostly because they don't understand them. Science largely uses statistics to analyze and evaluate events. Of course if the inputs are flawed so are the statistics. But in time more inputs are available and eventually the statistics accurately reflect reality.

[QUOTE=LoveItHere69;2621928] Fake news states that 5 million people have died. Out of 8 billion people that means the death rate is a huge whopping .000625% For this we have destroyed entire economies and peoples ways of life. Supply chain issues and lack of personal and government money to hand out will cause many of the starving people worldwide to receive even less food supplies this year and easily the next year. Their death rate could surpass the COVID death rate.

November 3 2021 CDC Covid ratings 1 low, 2 moderate, 3 high, 4 very high.

USA 4 very high.

Colombia 2 moderate..[/QUOTE]Fascinating! So you think that 5 million of 8 billion was. . 000625% (which, of course, most 3 graders would tell you is not correct).

[URL]https://www.calculator.net/percent-calculator.html[/URL] I'm linking a percent calculator to help you out in the future.

But the correct percentage would be: 0. 0625%.

Elvis needs to open his fly just to count to eleven. Or ten and a half, anyway.

[QUOTE=JustTK;2622179]Wah, wah, wah, Sry JB I cant hear u. I am not going to waste my time chatting w someone who cannot maintain a reasonable and friendly tone.[/QUOTE]Yeah man. All that BS started to make my head hurt.

And 2 hours ago I did ask the immigration shift supervisor in Bogota about searching electronics. She said the authorities in any airport in the world and law enforcement have the right to search electronics under the guise of preventing terrorism.

I asked what if the phone is locked and the person will not unlock it. She said then they go get the police to get it unlocked. Then I had a JB moment acting like those answers were not good enough, and kept saying but and trying to ask more questions about it. She said, "Get the hell out of here, I have already answered your question." Then she walked off.

That was simple enough. Now brace for his 8 paragraph rebuttal of my 2 sentences worth of encounter.

[QUOTE=JustTK;2622179]Wah, wah, wah, Sry JB I cant hear u. I am not going to waste my time chatting w someone who cannot maintain a reasonable and friendly tone.[/QUOTE]I understand completely. I have the same issue with hypocrisy as you have with having your incapacities pointed out.

Claiming people from the US can only resort to insults when they disagree is a reasonable and friendly tone? The majority of the posters are from the US, most disagree from time to time and most drop the matter before it devolves into insults. I don't belong in that group. If someone repeats their idiocy 3 times, there's no benefit to not point it out. And when their tone from the beginning is insulting, at some point I will respond in like manner.

Claiming that the COVID vaccine causes Dunning Kruger is a reasonable and friendly tone? Perhaps where you're from "reasonable" and "friendly" have different meanings.

Saying someone disagrees with something after they clearly agreed with it is reasonable and friendly? Misrepresenting a study to agree with your bias is reasonable and friendly? Lying about not reading something and then responding falsely to what you claimed to have not read is reasonable and friendly?

Your hypocrisy and lack of integrity has been confirmed.

For everyone else:

I think it was 1998, the day after Thanksgiving, I had a couple of small households of furniture to deliver in the Los Angeles area. I know it was the day after Thanksgiving, because I had forgotten to arrange some laborers in advance.

I had spent Thanksgiving with 2 women I knew in Chino Hills. They had a big house with room to park my truck. One of the women had owned a large contracting company with her ex, which was how she could afford the big house. The other was a Hollywood insider, worked as a personal assistant to some of the biggest stars. She drove a new Mercedes SL, had a closet full of furs and designer dresses, and dated one of the biggest producers. As a result of my friendship with her, for a few years I had the personal phone numbers, addresses and email accounts of literally every actor, director, producer, agent, etc in Hollywood. In a few of my more shameful moments I considered how much it might be worth, but eventually I wiped that hard drive.

I was joking around about putting them to work for me moving furniture and the Hollywood girl said it sounded like fun. So I ended up Van Nuys with a 40 year old debutante as my lumper. The last place we were delivering to I had to park the truck in the alley, blocking it. However, there were ways to easily get around my truck.

About halfway through unloading some chunky, mid 20's woman pulls up in a 10-12 year old Volvo and starts blowing her horn. I go to talk to her and she starts ranting about moving my truck. I was calm and polite, and told her I would be there at least another hour. I then pointed out 2 options which would quickly take her around my truck.

This achieved what I will now call the JustTK response. She began screaming about her importance, about her father, the Chief of Police, about how much trouble I was going to be in, just the typical irrational tantrum exhibited when spoiled brats don't get their way.

I remained polite and told her if she was in a hurry she should take 1 of the 2 options available, otherwise she would be sitting there for an hour.

We went back to work and she alternated between honking her horn and screaming out the window. After another 10 minutes had passed she decided to fake call the police. She holds her phone up to her ear and starts talking as loudly as possible. She described me in an inaccurate and unflattering manner and claimed I had threatened her. Then she got to my friend who she called my "fat, ugly white trash girlfriend. ".

As I noted previously, my friend was definitely not white trash. She also weighed half as much as the woman who was calling her fat. It's possible the woman was reasonably attractive, but with her mouth open she was a troll. However, my friend was clearly the winner in the looks department.

After her fake phone call, she yelled that the police were coming to throw me in jail. I just laughed and kept working. However, my friend decided she was tired of listening to the bullshit and walked up to her car. The window was quickly rolled up and doors locked. Diane just calmly said "you need to leave. " That's when the woman went full JustTK.

She cranked up her radio, stuck her fingers in her ears and said "I can't hear you. ".
Diane leaned over to look straight in the windshield and said "read my lips. You need to leave right now. " She spun her tires backing up and took off like her ass was on fire.

About 10 minutes later 4 skater punks come walking across the alley. I'm thinking I'll have to deal with more self-important delusional assholes. Nope. They were just gushing with how awesome we were and how the woman treated everyone that way. They had brought me a case of beer as thanks. I told them I couldn't accept the beer, but I had an idea. I handed them a $20 and told them to call their friends, buy more beer and throw a party telling the story.

Somewhere in the LA basin there are some 50 year old guys who probably still tell that story.

It's been a long time since I thought of that story, but seeing someone figuratively sticking their fingers in their ears and typing "I can't hear you" on a message board, well it's hard not to make the connection.

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2622203]Yeah man. All that BS started to make my head hurt.

And 2 hours ago I did ask the immigration shift supervisor in Bogota about searching electronics. She said the authorities in any airport in the world and law enforcement have the right to search electronics under the guise of preventing terrorism.

I asked what if the phone is locked and the person will not unlock it. She said then they go get the police to get it unlocked. Then I had a JB moment acting like those answers were not good enough, and kept saying but and trying to ask more questions about it. She said, "Get the hell out of here, I have already answered your question." Then she walked off.

That was simple enough. Now brace for his 8 paragraph rebuttal of my 2 sentences worth of encounter.[/QUOTE]1. People unable to handle basic math seems to be the theme today. I count 5 sentences worth of encounter.

2. I recall you claimed it's not legal for them to ask you to unlock your phone.

3. I recall you claimed they couldn't detain you for refusing to unlock your phone.

4. I also recall I stated that they have the legal authority to unlock your phone and to detain you if you refuse.

5. I also recall stating that in any country in the world, unless such a search has been specifically prohibited under any circumstances, such a search is legal.

6. Bear with me. I'm trying to stretch it to 8 paragraphs so that you will have been right about 1 thing, no matter how inconsequential.

7. I certainly understand how it would make your head hurt. When proof that you are completely clueless, about something you tried to pass as an expert on, is right there for everyone to read Cognitive dissonance can cause headaches.

8. Now that you've proven yourself wrong on every count and claimed victory, I sure hope you still have plenty of hot sauce left, because eating crow is easier with some seasoning.

[QUOTE=Villainy;2622182]People who are unable to perform basic math (and not to name names but there are several on here. Just read more of this thread) usually feel statistics are bogus. Mostly because they don't understand them. Science largely uses statistics to analyze and evaluate events. Of course if the inputs are flawed so are the statistics. But in time more inputs are available and eventually the statistics accurately reflect reality.

Fascinating! So you think that 5 million of 8 billion was. . 000625% (which, of course, most 3 graders would tell you is not correct).

[URL]https://www.calculator.net/percent-calculator.html[/URL] I'm linking a percent calculator to help you out in the future.

But the correct percentage would be: 0. 0625%.[/QUOTE]It looks like another one doesn't understand studies or statistics. It's funny because so much of everyone's everyday life is based on statistics.

Upgrades to roads, water systems, sewage systems, the electric grid are all ruled by statistics. Which crops are planted, which seed strains, which herbicides and pesticides and when to plant, apply pesticides, herbicides and fertilizer, along with when to harvest, statistics all the way.

Whether to build a new hospital, or expand an existing one, how many ambulance and firetrucks, how many police officers, all is based on statistics. Add to that, where to build pharmacies, grocery stores, hardware stores, restaurants and clubs and without statistics the entire infrastructure is fucked.

And let's not forget that any type of insurance is 100% statistics. Without statistics civilization collapses.

Studies on the other hand. Yes you can do a study and get whatever results you want. Absolutely. Undeniably. Just like you can claim that you can knock out anyone with a single punch.

That's when the truth comes out. My favorite example because it ties in so nicely with the 79 Club (my new classification for all the idiots who argue against vaccines, 79 represents their median IQ), is Andrew Wakefield and his study which showed the existing MMR vaccine causes autism. Almost immediately after publication doctors began questioning his data and his methodology. Ironically his study was published in "The Lancet", which eventually fully retracted the study. As a result his right to practice medicine was revoked and now he's just another 79 Clubber.

As you well know, but several obviously don't, no study is complete until it passes peer review. The findings need to be duplicated, the methodology needs to be confirmed. If it can't be confirmed it gets tossed aside.

Just like the "I can kick anyone's ass" crowd. It looks good on paper until you're toe to toe with someone who has been a boxer for 30 years.

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2622203]That was simple enough. Now brace for his 8 paragraph rebuttal of my 2 sentences worth of encounter.[/QUOTE]Oh yeah, there will be that five wagers, an IQ challenge, about 10 false analogies, and a lecture on why 0.06% is different than 0.0006%.

[QUOTE=Villainy;2622182]People who are unable to perform basic math (and not to name names but there are several on here. Just read more of this thread) usually feel statistics are bogus. Mostly because they don't understand them. Science largely uses statistics to analyze and evaluate events. Of course if the inputs are flawed so are the statistics. But in time more inputs are available and eventually the statistics accurately reflect reality.

Fascinating! So you think that 5 million of 8 billion was. . 000625% (which, of course, most 3 graders would tell you is not correct).

[URL]https://www.calculator.net/percent-calculator.html[/URL] I'm linking a percent calculator to help you out in the future.

But the correct percentage would be: 0. 0625%.[/QUOTE]And you tried to brag about being civil and not name calling? And you equate an incorrect mathematical solution to me?

Who gives a fuck about 0.0625 and 0.00625%? His point, which is correct, is the risk of Covid has been greatly exaggerated.

Is there any point in this point outside of you being a patronizing bragging dick which is the same with all your posts?

I guess the reason you have to pay for women is they are unimpressed by your math skills.

You are on ignore douche.

The USA and the civilized world have different definitions of billion.

Inferential statistics has type 1 and type 11 errors. Descriptive statistics are just that.

Pic 1 is a famous book (in the civilized world).

Pic 2, Dalia Dippolito, is a famous hooker (in the USA jungle), who was 500% sure she wanted a hit man to off her working girl loving hubby. Here are her prison details. Write to her. She'll be out in 2031, so less than 10 years to wait.

[QUOTE=Villainy;2622182]People who are unable to perform basic math (and not to name names but there are several on here. Just read more of this thread) usually feel statistics are bogus. Mostly because they don't understand them. Science largely uses statistics to analyze and evaluate events. Of course if the inputs are flawed so are the statistics. But in time more inputs are available and eventually the statistics accurately reflect reality.

Fascinating! So you think that 5 million of 8 billion was. . 000625% (which, of course, most 3 graders would tell you is not correct).

[URL]https://www.calculator.net/percent-calculator.html[/URL] I'm linking a percent calculator to help you out in the future.

But the correct percentage would be: 0. 0625%.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Villainy;2622182]People who are unable to perform basic math (and not to name names but there are several on here. Just read more of this thread) usually feel statistics are bogus. Mostly because they don't understand them. Science largely uses statistics to analyze and evaluate events. Of course if the inputs are flawed so are the statistics. But in time more inputs are available and eventually the statistics accurately reflect reality.
Fascinating! So you think that 5 million of 8 billion was. . 000625% (which, of course, most 3 graders would tell you is not correct).
[URL]https://www.calculator.net/percent-calculator.html[/URL] I'm linking a percent calculator to help you out in the future.
But the correct percentage would be: 0. 0625%.[/QUOTE]There are actually 2 different billions (a thousand million, or a million million), so both of you are right in a way. But both are wrong in a way too.

Excelss deaths show that 11.7 miilions may have died from COVID. So out out 7. 753 billion (using short scale), that's 0. 15%, or 1,500 deaths per million (which is the common stat expression).

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2621919]As for the vaccine preventing transmission, that is not only obvious from the data, the CDC has come out and said the vaccine does not prevent transmission, so again I do not know what the fuck you are talking about.[/QUOTE]Oh dear. Let's try this in a simple way so that even Elvis can grasp the concept.

The vaccine doesn't prevent transmission. But stay with me for just a few more seconds. What does the vaccine do? It makes it a lot less likely you will get CoVid in the first place. And if you do get a breakthrough case of CoVid you are a lot less likely to have severe consequences. Stick with the first part. The vaccine makes it a whole lot less likely that you will be infected with CoVid. So take two groups. One group is vaccinated and the other group isn't. Which group will more likely get infections? See'Mon. Elvis you can get this one right. It is binary, so you are 50-50. Answer: The unvaccinated group is more likely to get infected. By extension (simple arithmetic) more members of the unvaccinated group are likely to get infected with CoVid than from the vaccinated group. Now we get to the next part. If the unvaccinated group has a lot more people infected than the vaccinated group. Isn't the unvaccinated group much more likely to pass along the virus to family members or other members they come in contact with? (For Elvis: That was a rhetorical question. The answer would be obvious to any 3rd grader.).

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2621919] The number of USA cases recorded is 47 million. CDC estimates put it at around 100 million. Again, you are attributing their number to me.[/QUOTE]I'm using the 47 million reported on Worldometer. You constantly banter that the CDC can't be trusted, can't be believed, lack competence etc etc etc but you choose to use their number when it suits your purposes. Isn't that the classic example of shopping around for a number you like for your argument. Pick a number here, pick one there, Pick one on aisle 3. C'mon. Elvis try to be consistent.

[QUOTE=JustTK;2622266]There are actually 2 different billions (a thousand million, or a million million), so both of you are right in a way. But both are wrong in a way too.

Excelss deaths show that 11.7 miilions may have died from COVID. So out out 7. 753 billion (using short scale), that's 0. 15%, or 1,500 deaths per million (which is the common stat expression).[/QUOTE]You don't know what you are talking about. A million million? We call that a Trillion not a Billion. You aren't smart enough to take the vaccine and now you want to wade into a statistical discussion?

Seriously dude? Come back when you can pass a grade school math equivalency test.

[QUOTE=JustTK;2622266]There are actually 2 different billions (a thousand million, or a million million), so both of you are right in a way. But both are wrong in a way too.[/QUOTE]Possibly in your native language but certainly not in English, where a million million is a [B]trillion[/B]. Now let's get back to you being completely full of shit about what that study you posted meant.

[QUOTE=JustTK;2622266]There are actually 2 different billions (a thousand million, or a million million), so both of you are right in a way. But both are wrong in a way too.[/QUOTE]And he's off by a factor of a hundred, not by a factor of a thousand. People who don't understand numbers should not be allowed to use them for anything.

[QUOTE=ShooBree;2621839]This is laughable, around 30% of the population in Sweden are immigrants or children of immigrants while in Finland it's closer to 5%. Good luck finding any Swede to agree with you that Sweden is "genetically homogenous".[/QUOTE]Well, I'll give you props for doing your homework. You're still wrong, mind you but you did show some modest intelligence by trying to do your research. Here is the problem in what you came up with:

Yes, Sweden does have about 30% of its population having come from other countries but of that 30% (something close to 10% (1/3 of the 30% came from Norway, Denmark and Finland. And then some more came from Germany too. The largest historical group of immigrants are from Finland. In other words your 30% is greatly exaggerated. AND a number of the immigrants that did come to Sweden over the years, intermarried and assimilated which means that although you may have Swedes with one immigrant parent they still possess genetic characteristic of the general Swedish population.

Math teacher: 'The formula for the area of a circle is Pi are-squared. '.

TK and Elvis: 'That can't be right! Pi are round and cake are square. '.

First off, Norway and Finland were formerly parts of Sweden. The great Finnish patriot, Carl GUSTAF Mannerheim, spoke Swedish as he was of Swedish nobility. The Finns did mot of the heavy fighting for King Karl Gustaf the Great of Sweden.

[URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Sweden[/URL]

Wikipedia tells us the great increases in Swedish population and in Swedish crime are from Africa and similar toilets. Muslims who cam, e to Sweden decades ago came to work. Now they come to scrounge on Sweden's great security system and to commit crime. These people do not assimilate in Sweden, Germany, France or anywhere else. In Germany, for example, they support the Turkish not the German football team. Parts of the Netherlands and Belgium are ISIS safe havens.

The future is the medieval city state or the mad Max type we associate with the toilet of the USA and Latin America. Wealth, gated communities and savages beyond them.

Though Europe is the heart of the civilised world and Germany is the pinnacle of engineering, the fact is for every one German engineer Germany can throw at a problem, China can throw 100 or 1000 if need be. The US model of simply stealing superior German grey matter is likewise running out of track.

I am unsure what this stupid shit is about. By all means, be stupid. But do not be that stupid.

[QUOTE=Villainy;2622284]Well, I'll give you props for doing your homework. You're still wrong, mind you but you did show some modest intelligence by trying to do your research. Here is the problem in what you came up with:

Yes, Sweden does have about 30% of its population having come from other countries but of that 30% (something close to 10% (1/3 of the 30% came from Norway, Denmark and Finland. And then some more came from Germany too. The largest historical group of immigrants are from Finland. In other words your 30% is greatly exaggerated. AND a number of the immigrants that did come to Sweden over the years, intermarried and assimilated which means that although you may have Swedes with one immigrant parent they still possess genetic characteristic of the general Swedish population.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Villainy;2622269]You don't know what you are talking about. A million million? We call that a Trillion not a Billion. You aren't smart enough to take the vaccine and now you want to wade into a statistical discussion?

Seriously dude? Come back when you can pass a grade school math equivalency test.[/QUOTE]Really, you are the worst of the worst in assuming you are correct, and then criticising others despite being wrong! Haha.

[URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_and_short_scale[/URL]

Just take a humility pill, man. It will help you get along with people better.

[QUOTE=Huacho;2622276]Possibly in your native language but certainly not in English, where a million million is a [B]trillion[/B]. Now let's get back to you being completely full of shit about what that study you posted meant.[/QUOTE]If you are able to discuss it in a polite / respectful way, Sure! Lets go fir. Otherwise. F.

[QUOTE=JustTK;2622309]If you are able to discuss it in a polite / respectful way, Sure!.[/QUOTE]I called you on it earlier, as did several other people, and you did not and cannot verify your assertions. So, politely and respectfully, you are completely and totally full of shit, and are a selfish unvaccinated asshole who continues to fuck hookers. So when the mandate hits Colombia, please do not let the door hit you in the ass.

'The short scale is used in most English-speaking and Arabic-speaking countries, in Brazil, and in several other countries. ' And this is an English speaking forum, and did I mention you are completely full of shit?

[QUOTE=JustTK;2622308]Really, you are the worst of the worst in assuming you are correct, and then criticising others despite being wrong! Haha.

[URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_and_short_scale[/URL]

Just take a humility pill, man. It will help you get along with people better.[/QUOTE]I should take a humility pill? Sure guy anything you say. I thought we were having our discussion in English American style? Did someone go back to medieval long scales? No.

If you would improve your reading skill you would have understood the context of the discussion. We were talking about 5 million deaths from CoVid and a world population of 8 billion. That wasn't 8 billion on the long scale or else the population of the earth would be 8 trillion using the universally accepted numerical system. Only a 3rd grader could have made that mistake.

[QUOTE=JustTK;2622308]Really, you are the worst of the worst in assuming you are correct, and then criticising others despite being wrong! Haha.

[URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_and_short_scale[/URL]

Just take a humility pill, man. It will help you get along with people better.[/QUOTE]Once again, you are arguing about factors of a thousand and the OP was wrong by a factor of a hundred. So for those who can count to three, the OP was off by two decimal places and you are arguing about differences of three decimal places. But unvaccinated people are stupid by definition at this point, so it is not surprising you can't figure that out.

[QUOTE=Villainy;2622269]You don't know what you are talking about. A million million? We call that a Trillion not a Billion. You aren't smart enough to take the vaccine and now you want to wade into a statistical discussion?

Seriously dude? Come back when you can pass a grade school math equivalency test.[/QUOTE]Whenever someone is discussing world population and throw out "8 billion" it's glaringly obvious they are referring to 8,000,000,000. There's no ambiguity, no question whatsoever about the value being discussed.

[QUOTE=JustTK;2622309]If you are able to discuss it in a polite / respectful way, Sure! Lets go fir. Otherwise. F.[/QUOTE]Why do you insist others hold to a standard which you refuse to abide by?

Yup. Screwed up. Got in a rush and should have left off the " Boy that sure got some people hot and bothered. Yikes!

The last three hotels I have stayed at have not been expensive but on the new side (3 years old) or remo deled. They used some low trough like sink built into the hallways to clean the mop head. I was eating at the food court in Santa Fe Mall which I believe is the largest mall in Medellin. They were using a plastic mop bucket on wheels but without the mop head ringer. So all these places are wringing out the water by hand which is very hard work time consuming, and does a horrible job. Is the same thing happening in the fancy hotels? What the hell gives? Why on earth do they do this (other than save a little money)?

Disgusting news up next. Botero Real next to the church is currently the most popular love hotel in Centro. The new owners kicked out all the over-nighters to make it short time only 2 months ago. Two receptionists work 12 hour shifts. For curiosity sake I asked what their busiest day was. Basically how much sex happened that day, Received to two different answers from each girl. 510 and 600. We will go with the lower count. They said they had 30 rooms. So 510/30 = 17 romps in each room. I think they only change the sheets twice or maybe thrice times per day. Yuck!

***** Complaint. Guy asks about where to buy men's happy pills and 24 hours later another guy asks the same question in the same thread.

[QUOTE=Villainy;2622268]Oh dear. Let's try this in a simple way so that even Elvis can grasp the concept.

The vaccine doesn't prevent transmission. But stay with me for just a few more seconds. What does the vaccine do? It makes it a lot less likely you will get CoVid in the first place. And if you do get a breakthrough case of CoVid you are a lot less likely to have severe consequences. Stick with the first part. The vaccine makes it a whole lot less likely that you will be infected with CoVid. So take two groups. One group is vaccinated and the other group isn't. Which group will more likely get infections? See'Mon. Elvis you can get this one right. It is binary, so you are 50-50. Answer: The unvaccinated group is more likely to get infected. By extension (simple arithmetic) more members of the unvaccinated group are likely to get infected with CoVid than from the vaccinated group. Now we get to the next part. If the unvaccinated group has a lot more people infected than the vaccinated group. Isn't the unvaccinated group much more likely to pass along the virus to family members or other members they come in contact with? (For Elvis: That was a rhetorical question. The answer would be obvious to any 3rd grader.).

.[/QUOTE]Nice condescending tone, shows where you are mentally.

You completely disregard IFR, natural immunity from antibodies, and herd immunity. There's a reason there wasnt a vaccine for the spanish flu, becuase you can't create a vaccine for the flu. Which is what covid is, a deadlier version of the flu. Which is the reason masks are required again along with booster shots, because the vaccine is literally not a vaccine. It's a treatment to prevent death. There's a reason the average age of covid death is higher than the average age of death by natural causes in the usa. It's not the damn plague.

But it always fascinates me how "progressives" or "liberals" whatever you want to call it, have become complete bootlickers with govt mandates when they were all free speech anti war anti gov people in the 60's.

I mean this is a govt funded vax from a monopoly of pharma companies with a long history of malpractice lawsuits, they are obligating you to take it or you lose your job / right to travel in a lot of cases, and you have no legal recourse against said companies! Insanity,

But again arguing with somebody who is vaccinated is like arguing against god with a christian, it goes nowhere 99% of the time because of the inherent bias.

[QUOTE=JohnnyWalker55;2622555]You completely disregard IFR, natural immunity from antibodies, and herd immunity ...But again arguing with somebody who is vaccinated is like arguing against god with a christian, it goes nowhere 99% of the time because of the inherent bias.[/QUOTE]Well, maybe because the scientific community, as opposed to the tin foil hat crowd, has rejected the concepts of IFR and herd immunity, and maybe because most studies show natural immunity is inferior to and does not last as long as vaxxing. But I personally am done arguing with anti vaxxers and am ready to just start either holding them down and jabbing them or maybe just fucking shooting them. You are a bunch of selfish fucking assholes and it isn't about you or freedom or personal choice. It is a fucking epidemic and sane people are tired of the restrictions and vaccination is the way to go. Hello? Smallpox? Polio? Measles? You people are stupid, ignorant, selfish fucking assholes and probably engage in felching.

[QUOTE=Villainy;2622268]more members of the unvaccinated group are likely to get infected with CoVid than from the vaccinated group.[/QUOTE]Tell that to Jen Psaki (after she recovers from covid, of course).

[QUOTE=JohnnyWalker55;2622555]Nice condescending tone, shows where you are mentally.

You completely disregard IFR, natural immunity from antibodies, and herd immunity. There's a reason there wasnt a vaccine for the spanish flu, becuase you can't create a vaccine for the flu. Which is what covid is, a deadlier version of the flu. Which is the reason masks are required again along with booster shots, because the vaccine is literally not a vaccine. It's a treatment to prevent death. There's a reason the average age of covid death is higher than the average age of death by natural causes in the usa. It's not the damn plague.

But it always fascinates me how "progressives" or "liberals" whatever you want to call it, have become complete bootlickers with govt mandates when they were all free speech anti war anti gov people in the 60's.

I mean this is a govt funded vax from a monopoly of pharma companies with a long history of malpractice lawsuits, they are obligating you to take it or you lose your job / right to travel in a lot of cases, and you have no legal recourse against said companies! Insanity,

But again arguing with somebody who is vaccinated is like arguing against god with a christian, it goes nowhere 99% of the time because of the inherent bias.[/QUOTE]Are you confused about the meaning of "herd immunity?" I'm asking because you list "natural immunity from antibodies and herd immunity" as if they are 2 separate things. I'm also not understanding lumping Infection Fatality Ratio with immunity from antibodies. I suppose death does provide a type of immunity, which is superior to all other acquired immunities against reinfection, but is it the best method?

Actually the reason why there wasn't a vaccine against the Spanish flu is because 100+ years ago medical science was 100+ years behind where it is today. That's like saying the reason there were no airplanes in the American Revolution is because airplanes don't work.

As for the COVID vaccine, it's vaccines, plural, there are several. They are all slightly different. Is the average age of death from Covid higher than the average age of death from natural causes? I'm asking because I can't find any figures for either. I suspect the difference is not huge, since heart disease, cancer, COVID, and most of the other natural causes are more common amongst the elderly. I did find numbers for Canada, but it's a comparison between 2020 for Covid and average life expectancy for 2019. However, life expectancy includes accidents, suicides and violence which are skewed to the young. If you remove those, the age difference is not significant.

Progressives or liberals or whatever YOU want to call them? Are these the same progressives and liberals you were complaining about protesting last year? I'm working on an article for The Journal of American Hypocrisy" and would like some clarification.

Instead of splitting people by "liberal" and "conservative", let's try something different.

Group 1: "I'll do whatever the fuck I want and I don't care who it hurts or kills. ".

Group 2: "I don't want to endanger myself needlessly, especially if it endangers others. ".

Pick one. Now it doesn't matter who you vote for, what race or religion, what gender. Now we can have a discussion about the issue without the labels.

Issue 1: wearing masks. Are masks effective at reducing the spread? Notice I didn't say 100% effective. Does a properly worn mask provide some protection? If there's some confusion, go to a hospital emergency room and wait for a gunshot victim to be brought in. After the emergency surgery ask the ER surgeon why he wore a mask. Be prepared for a disrespectful, bordering on angry response.

Issue 2: Do vaccines offer some level of protection above natural immunity acquired from infection? There's quite a large body of data available. How do you interpret it?

The internet is a government funded invention. I don't see a lot of people screaming about not using the internet because it was funded by the government. Every fire department and police department is government funded. Does that mean I shouldn't call them if my house is on fire?

As for the pharmaceutical monopoly, what's your take on Viagra and Cialis? Same pharmaceutical companies, with the same history of lawsuits. Why aren't you raising hell every time someone asks where to buy Viagra? Let's go a step further. If you have an allergic reaction to something and need an injection of epinephrine to save your life, are you ready to refuse it because it came from those big, bad pharmaceutical companies?

I fully support each individual's right to refuse vaccination. But if your reason is because it came from a pharmaceutical company, then there's a whole bunch of stuff you need to give up in order to be consistent, including eating anything you didn't grow or raise yourself. Yep. Them big, mean ol' pharmaceutical companies have their finger in just about everything you eat or drink.

Losing jobs? Losing the right to travel? You lost me there. If I refuse to get drug tested when ordered, I lose my job. In fact, I would be unable to be hired for my job anywhere, without the drug test. Under certain circumstances, refusing the drug test would permanently disqualify from my job. Not only could I not get hired, I couldn't even apply. If I wish to travel to certain places in the world, I'm required to have certain vaccines. It's been that way for years. There are certain jobs where I would be required to get certain vaccines. It's not as if the mandates are an entirely new thing. It's simply an addition to a list of requirements which already existed.

Finally, why argue about it? I'm vaccinated. My opinion is that it's in almost everyone's best interest to get vaccinated. You have your reasons for not getting vaccinated. They aren't important to me. What is important to me is when people are insisting others not get vaccinated. It's the same with drugs or barebacking hookers. I don't feel either is in your best interest, but those are personal choices. It's only when someone starts insisting everyone should be doing those things that I am opposed.

[QUOTE=LoveItHere69;2622385]Yup. Screwed up. Got in a rush and should have left off the " Boy that sure got some people hot and bothered. Yikes!

The last three hotels I have stayed at have not been expensive but on the new side (3 years old) or remo deled. They used some low trough like sink built into the hallways to clean the mop head. I was eating at the food court in Santa Fe Mall which I believe is the largest mall in Medellin. They were using a plastic mop bucket on wheels but without the mop head ringer. So all these places are wringing out the water by hand which is very hard work time consuming, and does a horrible job. Is the same thing happening in the fancy hotels? What the hell gives? Why on earth do they do this (other than save a little money)?

Disgusting news up next. Botero Real next to the church is currently the most popular love hotel in Centro. The new owners kicked out all the over-nighters to make it short time only 2 months ago. Two receptionists work 12 hour shifts. For curiosity sake I asked what their busiest day was. Basically how much sex happened that day, Received to two different answers from each girl. 510 and 600. We will go with the lower count. They said they had 30 rooms. So 510/30 = 17 romps in each room. I think they only change the sheets twice or maybe thrice times per day. Yuck!.[/QUOTE]Santa Fe mall is possibly the third largest mall in the Medellin metro area. Plaza Mayorca is much bigger. Centro Comercial Viva is the largest.

No comment on cheap and nasty hotels in El Centro, except to clarify the difference between a cheap short time hotel and a love hotel / motel. Love motels usually offer rooms for 3 hours minimum and they typically have at least a sex chair in addition to the bed. They also, in my experience are much cleaner and get a thorough cleaning, linen change, between customers. There are several that appear decent in El Centro, but I've only checked out 1.

As for your complaint, it's almost an everyday occurrence. Someone is always asking a question which was just answered. The best ones are the "I've been reading the forum, and I have a few questions", followed by a list of questions which are answered every week. My absolute favorite ones are the "I've mongered all over the world for 20 years (but their post count is 1) and I have some questions. I promise to post a detailed report after my trip. " Then they ask something like "are the girls okay with me bringing my own condoms?

[QUOTE=LoveItHere69;2622385]Yup. Screwed up. Got in a rush and should have left off the " Boy that sure got some people hot and bothered. Yikes! [/QUOTE]You waded into a tempestuous debate and happened to make a math error. No big deal despite the blowback. I have to give you respect. You admitted you made a mistake. Not something we see around here very much.

[QUOTE=LoveItHere69;2622385]***** Complaint. Guy asks about where to buy men's happy pills and 24 hours later another guy asks the same question in the same thread.[/QUOTE]We have a lot of visitors who aren't willing (or perhaps aren't able?) to read through the forum and learn from the multiple members who actually try to help people. You can lead a new member to sound advice. You just can't make him read it.

Now it's clear who Pedro Morales is, Shoobree the Swede, but this time failed to keep his conversations consistent between his handles. Oops. Anyway pal is going to be a long winter down in your momma's basement in Stockholm, eating pickled herring and beating off with the juice of the same. Of course we are never going to see you in Colombia, "southern Europe," purportedly "roughing up Americans" lololol or any other venue this forum is about. You haven't even the balls to stick with one handle, much less do any traveling or start any fights with any ethnic groups you envy. Wink.

[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2622305]First off, Norway and Finland were formerly parts of Sweden. The great Finnish patriot, Carl GUSTAF Mannerheim, spoke Swedish as he was of Swedish nobility. The Finns did mot of the heavy fighting for King Karl Gustaf the Great of Sweden.

[URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Sweden[/URL]

Wikipedia tells us the great increases in Swedish population and in Swedish crime are from Africa and similar toilets. Muslims who cam, e to Sweden decades ago came to work. Now they come to scrounge on Sweden's great security system and to commit crime. These people do not assimilate in Sweden, Germany, France or anywhere else. In Germany, for example, they support the Turkish not the German football team. Parts of the Netherlands and Belgium are ISIS safe havens.

The future is the medieval city state or the mad Max type we associate with the toilet of the USA and Latin America. Wealth, gated communities and savages beyond them..[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=JjBee62;2622378]Why do you insist others hold to a standard which you refuse to abide by?[/QUOTE]Really? I am always respectful to those that show some. But I can see you have already formed your opinion, so don't waste your breath.

[QUOTE=JjBee62;2622377]Whenever someone is discussing world population and throw out "8 billion" it's glaringly obvious they are referring to 8,000,000,000. There's no ambiguity, no question whatsoever about the value being discussed.[/QUOTE]My point was that I pointed that "There are actually 2 different billions (a thousand million, or a million million)" - yet he insisted that I was an idiot and that I was wrong. Whereas I am clearly correct. It is this arrogant and ignorant assertion of correctness with some people here that leaves a bitter taste in my mouth. Of course, I can defend what I say (as another claimed I couldn't). I just simply refuse to engage with condescending ar8 eholes. That is quite another story.

[QUOTE=JohnnyWalker55;2622555]Nice condescending tone, shows where you are mentally. [/QUOTE]I'd much prefer someone come across condescending but bring truth than pretend to be humble while talking out of their ass. Speaking of which:

[QUOTE=JohnnyWalker55;2622555]Which is what covid is, a deadlier version of the flu.[/QUOTE]Everyone knows Covid isn't influenza but the most ignorant among us. It's hard to get any more asinine than that.

[QUOTE=JohnnyWalker55;2622555] There's a reason the average age of covid death is higher than the average age of death by natural causes in the usa. [/QUOTE]Please link your source (s) for these claims, something the right wingnuts among us almost never do. Covid has drastically reduced life expectancy in a number of US states and other countries. That would hardly be the case if what you just claimed is true. In any case, prove it.

[URL]https://newsroom.ucla.edu/releases/new-metric-shows-covid-drastically-reduced-lifespan[/URL]

[URL]https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0254925[/URL]

[QUOTE=JohnnyWalker55;2622555] But it always fascinates me how "progressives" or "liberals" whatever you want to call it, have become complete bootlickers with govt mandates when they were all free speech anti war anti gov people in the 60's.[/QUOTE]It fascinates you only because you don't know how to think well enough to make anything resembling a valid comparison. Screw your "freedom" to spread disease. Such has nothing to do with anti-war protests. Also screw your "free speech" to call for violent insurrections, to hang the vice president and speaker of the house, or whatever other numbskull 70 IQ Alex Joneseque silliness that threatens our democracy. And the "big tech" the wingnuts want to cry about have a Constitutional right not to host vile information like the aforementioned or Covid nonsense, calling it "the flu," etc. On their private platforms. Good on them for taking a stand. Post your nonsense over at News Max or Info Wars.

[QUOTE=JohnnyWalker55;2622555] I mean this is a govt funded vax from a monopoly of pharma companies with a long history of malpractice lawsuits, they are obligating you to take it or you lose your job / right to travel in a lot of cases, and you have no legal recourse against said companies! But again arguing with somebody who is vaccinated is like arguing against god with a christian, it goes nowhere 99% of the time because of the inherent bias.[/QUOTE]And you aren't "biased?" Spinning out your wingnut conspiracy theories? The pharmas aren't monopolies, and aside from J & J and the talcum powder, only one in the vaccine game has had a notable settlement related to a pharmaceutical, back in 2009. The vaccine from the same, Pfizer, has been monitored by numerous entities outside of their corporate structure. Yes I'm all for vaccine mandates and mask requirements while leaving the selfish and cowardly on the sidelines, couldn't happen soon enough for me.

In any case your post was more arrogant than the one you objected to. Funny how these things end up once you've finished typing.

[QUOTE=JustTK;2622658]My point was that I pointed that "There are actually 2 different billions (a thousand million, or a million million)" - yet he insisted that I was an idiot and that I was wrong. Whereas I am clearly correct. It is this arrogant and ignorant assertion of correctness with some people here that leaves a bitter taste in my mouth. Of course, I can defend what I say (as another claimed I couldn't). I just simply refuse to engage with condescending ar8 eholes. That is quite another story.[/QUOTE]Did your momma ever tell you to stop diggin'?

The original poster acknowledged he made a mistake. You could have seen this in any number of ways but NO, you had to pontificate about long scales and short scales. The discussion that gave rise to the calculation was one about the earth's population as a denominator. Even you, even you could have figured out what number we were talking about. At this point the only person on the planet who thinks you're not impaired mentally is you. As the old saying goes. "It's time to stop digging".

[QUOTE=JustTK;2622647]Really? I am always respectful to those that show some. But I can see you have already formed your opinion, so don't waste your breath.[/QUOTE]I've already pointed out your post, which was not a reply to anyone, where you said the vaccine causes Dunning Kruger. That is directed at every vaccinated person, whether or not they have ever replied to one of your posts.

Then there was your link to the Pfizer study in The Lancet, where you speculated that vaccinated people would denigrate the publication. Once again, it was a post which originated with you, not a reply to someone else.

These are just 2 examples where you began with a disrespectful tone. Are there more?

[QUOTE=Huacho;2622594]Well, maybe because the scientific community, as opposed to the tin foil hat crowd, has rejected the concepts of IFR and herd immunity, and maybe because most studies show natural immunity is inferior to and does not last as long as vaxxing. But I personally am done arguing with anti vaxxers and am ready to just start either holding them down and jabbing them or maybe just fucking shooting them. You are a bunch of selfish fucking assholes and it isn't about you or freedom or personal choice. It is a fucking epidemic and sane people are tired of the restrictions and vaccination is the way to go. Hello? Smallpox? Polio? Measles? You people are stupid, ignorant, selfish fucking assholes and probably engage in felching.[/QUOTE]I have a third option, it's something that has been used before. Set up natural acquired immunity centers.

Instead of bitching about vaccines, just set up a place where anyone who wants to try the herd immunity route can check in for a week and be exposed intentionally every day. After 1 week of exposure, they return a week later for testing. If positive, they quarantine for 2 weeks. If they remain uninfected, or recover thy get a natural immunity card good for 3 months, which serves in lieu of a vaccine card. Every 3 months repeat the process to renew the card. If they don't get infected for 3 consecutive renewal visits they get a permanent card.

[QUOTE=JustTK;2622658]My point was that I pointed that "There are actually 2 different billions (a thousand million, or a million million)" - yet he insisted that I was an idiot and that I was wrong. Whereas I am clearly correct. It is this arrogant and ignorant assertion of correctness with some people here that leaves a bitter taste in my mouth. Of course, I can defend what I say (as another claimed I couldn't). I just simply refuse to engage with condescending ar8 eholes. That is quite another story.[/QUOTE]No. You were wrong. Completely and absolutely wrong. The key is context. If you throw out answers without considering context, there's a good chance you're going to be wrong.

If someone is looking for a girl who is an expert at sucking dick and you respond with a discussion about pudding, you're wrong.

I suppose we could all go with "I respectfully wish to point your awareness to the possibility there could be a slight error in your response", bit "you're wrong" leaves no ambiguity and allows us to move on.

And you can use "asshole. " No need to censor yourself. No need to use "arse". Nobody is going to wonder what a perforated donkey has to do with the replay. And it's a forum dedicated to the pursuit of fucking hookers. If someone gets offended because you spelled out arse, they are in the wrong place.

[QUOTE=Huacho;2622594]But I personally am done arguing with anti vaxxers and am ready to just start either holding them down and jabbing them or maybe just fucking shooting them. You are a bunch of selfish fucking assholes and it isn't about you or freedom or personal choice. It is a fucking epidemic and sane people are tired of the restrictions and vaccination is the way to go. Hello? Smallpox? Polio? Measles?[/QUOTE]You left out Herpes.

Less than an hour ago I watched the entire anti-vax mindset play out right in front of me.

If you pay attention, you know I drive a truck, semi, big rig, 18 wheeler. Why I drive a truck is simple; it makes me happy. A long time ago I had a job that sucked. The work itself was fine, I enjoyed it. However, I was supposed to stretch 6-10 hours of work into a 45 hour work week (we did exclusively contracting for the Department of Defense). Fortunately, for me, the contract they hired me to fill was awarded to another company, which left me free to explore other opportunities (which is corporate speak for I was terminated).

Instead of collecting unemployment, I took a job driving a tow truck. Instead of hitting snooze 6 times every day, I was putting in 80-100 hours a week and loving it. The overall pay was much better and I didn't have to wear a tie.

After a few years I ended up doing the corporate grind again. Once again, I loved the work, but hated the environment. After a couple of high stress years, I got my CDL, Commercial Drivers License and it's what I've done for most of the last 26 years. No alarm clock, no boss, minimal bureaucratic bullshit and the pay and benefits are pretty good.

Driving 60 hours a week, you see a lot of things, good and bad. Tonight was a bad one. Coming into Indianapolis 2 new Corvettes went by me at 150 MPH or more. Zigging around traffic one of them zigged at the wrong time and clipped a minivan. The minivan spun out into the grass, the Corvette spun into the median divider wall. Both people were able to get out of the Vette, although the passenger was pretty wobbly. I'm not sure about the minivan. The other Corvette kept going.

If one of the Corvettes had hit the back of a truck, they would have removed the bodies with a squeegee.

The Corvettes were the unvaxed crusaders, the ones telling people to beware of vaccines. The trucks were the vaccinated. If they get hit they're probably going to walk away. All the other cars are the partially vaccinated, or vaccinated with compromised immunity, who are trying to minimize exposure.

The Corvettes are whipping along, infected and unvaccinated. They aren't hurting anyone. Right until someone makes a lane change. Sometimes the Corvette can react and avoid infecting someone. Sometimes they just crash and only hurt themselves. Other times they cause a devastating crash.

When you're driving down the highway at 150 MPH, you're not thinking about other people you might infect. You don't know if they will get sick or die. All you're thinking about is your sweet ride. Then one day someone changes lanes and you start a chain reaction, killing 20.

Vaccinate or not, that's your choice. But at least try to keep from infecting others.

[QUOTE=Huacho;2622594]Well, maybe because the scientific community, as opposed to the tin foil hat crowd, has rejected the concepts of IFR and herd immunity, and maybe because most studies show natural immunity is inferior to and does not last as long as vaxxing. But I personally am done arguing with anti vaxxers and am ready to just start either holding them down and jabbing them or maybe just fucking shooting them. You are a bunch of selfish fucking assholes and it isn't about you or freedom or personal choice. It is a fucking epidemic and sane people are tired of the restrictions and vaccination is the way to go. Hello? Smallpox? Polio? Measles? You people are stupid, ignorant, selfish fucking assholes and probably engage in felching.[/QUOTE]I had to look up felching. Externalising the internal?

I had C19 and I currently have a digital passport allowing me travel within the EU. I am unvaccinated and hope to remain so. I never took a flu jab either and hope not to. There is no flu vaccine and nor is there a C19 vaccine.

Herd immunity? What happened to the Spanish flu which was no Spanish? Are they still dropping dead l ike flies in Italy, India, Spain and elsewhere? No?

Smallpox, measles and polio are not like the flu and C19. Apples and giraffes.

You have very serious fascistic issues. Hitler could have used you, if you were really up to the job of slaughtering Slavs. Washing one's hands, keeping away from the infected goes a long way to avoiding the flu and C19.

That was vicious, even dastardly for me to once again slap you with a narcissist's dilemma. All I can say is it's something you can control. Stop trying to include me in your narcissistic fantasies and I'll stop broadsiding you with the narcissist's dilemmas.

I had the experience of living with a narcissist for over 5 years. Although I suspected some personality disorders when we first got together, I was unaware of the extent of them. It wasn't until I inadvertently put her in a narcissist's dilemma, which caused enough physical distress to send her to the hospital, when she was referred to a psychiatrist. Although it didn't fix all her issues, learning to move on from the narcissism helped break her self-destructive cycles which had caused several setbacks in her professional life.

Before I get to what a narcissist's dilemma is, I'm going to detail 2 of your incompatible narcissist fantasies, and explain how they clearly illustrate your issues, which I have told you in the past you should seek professional help to resolve.

The first fantasy happened about 15 months ago. As I reported here, I had experienced 3 symptoms over about 2 weeks, fever, persistent cough and shortness of breath. These are the 3 most common symptoms of Covid. At the time, in my area, Covid testing was only available, by appointment, for those with symptoms. By the time I could work an appointment into my schedule, the symptoms were mostly gone.

While getting tested, the nurse noticed my pulse was very high and brought me into the clinic for an EKG, which showed atrial fibrillation. I ended up spending a night in ICU, where another Covid test was taken. The Covid tests were both negative, my heart rate was brought under control, I was set up with a follow-up appointment with a cardiologist and sent home.

That's where your fantasy began. According to you, I was stupid for thinking I had Covid, and I was stupid for not recognizing the atrial fibrillation. You claimed you immediately recognized the A-Fib and knew more about my health than I did. That last bit is a definite sign of narcissism, claiming superior knowledge without having the knowledge. The only crossover symptom between Covid and A-Fib is shortness of breath. I had no other symptoms, which I could notice. It's tough to get an accurate pulse while driving a truck and there was no chest pain, fatigue or dizziness. On the day it was detected there wasn't even shortness of breath. Even my cardiologist, after hearing the symptoms was surprised that I had no definitive A-Fib symptom.

Your second fantasy, which you recently repeated, was just a few months ago. After a longer than normal week (my normal week is 70 hours), accompanied by 2 flips of my normal sleep schedule I had the following symptoms: fatigue, light headedness, heart palpitations and chest pain. All 4 A-Fib symptoms, with no fever, cough or shortness of breath.

When the symptoms became too severe to ignore I stopped at the last convenience store for 25 miles and called an ambulance. Before the ambulance arrived, I stumbled into the convenience store and collapsed. I was weak and had trouble controlling my extremities, along with extreme dizziness. The EMTs got me loaded up and hooked me to the EKG, so the doctors could see what was going on. They took vitals and except for the pulse, they were good. Blood pressure was up slightly, but not high. No fever and my lungs were clear.

My condition continued to deteriorate, to the point where I couldn't speak and was unable to move. The doctors checked almost everything, including an MRI. They even collected a urine sample, once my condition began to improve, to check if I was on any drugs. After finding nothing definitive, I was released and spent 2 days resting. Once I felt mostly recovered (still with no Covid symptoms) I decided to go ahead with my vacation. It wasn't until almost 2 weeks later when Covid symptoms began to appear. When they did, I left 2 days early for Bogota, and went to be tested.

Once again you claimed I was stupid for not recognizing I had Covid. 3 EMTs, 3 doctors and 4 nurses could find no reason to suspect I had Covid, but you knew. Right? You then went on a hyperbolic rant insinuating I was wiping out the population of Colombia.

Do you recognize how these 2 fantasies are incompatible? When I had symptoms of Covid, I was stupid for thinking I might have Covid. When I had no symptoms of Covid, I was stupid for not knowing I had Covid. In both cases you claimed to know things even my doctors didn't know.

Now to the narcissist's dilemma. It's my own phrase, so I doubt you'll find much about it. I just checked and I am wrong. There goes my Nobel prize.

[URL]https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/evolution-the-self/201110/the-narcissists-dilemma-they-can-dish-it-out[/URL]

In my words, I'll explain it. When I was much younger it could be summed up with 5 words: put up or shut up. It was common for someone to start bragging about their superiority. We didn't have the internet then so it had to be done in the real world. Most people did it face to face, "my car is faster than yours" or "I can kick your ass. " At which point they might hear "put up or shut up. " For most people the issue would be quickly resolved. Either they would recognize their bluff had been called and step back, or the challenge would be accepted and everyone would see who was right.

However, for a narcissist, backing down isn't an option and putting the issue to the test isn't possible. The sole reason they are making claims they can't support is because they feel inadequate. The fear of everyone else discovering their inadequacy is devastating. So they run from the confrontation. Before we had the internet that often literally meant running away and then coming up with constant excuses why they couldn't back their claims.

Of course these days it's much easier. They can run and hide until their symptoms abate and then pretend they were never faced with the dilemma. In extreme cases, they'll create a new account to come in and provide support for their original account. Isn't that right, Elvis? But the one thing they can't do is accept the challenge.

I'll close this with a sincere request. If you're exhibiting signs of narcissism, go get help. You'll be amazed at how much better life becomes when you discover real self worth. I make that request, because I'm also suggesting how to handle narcissts. Put them to the test whenever possible. Every time one pops up, hit them with a dilemma.

This is one of the dumbest takes I have heard during the pandemic. And I have heard it claimed here a few times. So let's exam the logic a little.

Firstly, one would need to verify that one is indeed a greater risk to a puta. This is far from clear. A vaxd person is equally likely to spread CV if they have the virus as an unvaxd person. But is the unvaxd person more likely to have the virus? That is very unclear. On average an unvaxd person has a 38% chance of catching the virus over a 20 day period, whereas a vaxd has 25% chance. However, immunological organizations confirm and agree that everyone will get the virus and everyone will have antibodies sooner or later bcos the vax does not prevent transmission. Furthermore, as time goes on, those stats will change in favour of the unvaxd bcos an ever greater proportion of the sample will have caught the disease and will have antibodies. So the 2 groups will effectively merge in to one with no discernible differences.

It's important to note also that those stats are averages. They say nothing of the circumstances that any individual may have. One could do a hell of a lot to reduce your likelihood of not having the virus when you have sex – go for regular checks, avoid French kissing, make sure you don't go out when you have flu-like symptoms, social distance, take regular exercise, eat a vegan diet, avoid having sex when you're old or obese or have high blood pressure or diabetes (or any other contributory factor), make sure your 2nd vax jab is not more than 2-3 months old, or catch the virus naturally. These actions would be far more effective in reducing transmission than having a vax that is only partially effective. So if one argues that having unvaccinated sex is selfish, then you must accept that having sex while failing to meet any of these conditions is also selfish – I doubt anyone here would accept that.

Furthermore, you could apply the same dumb logic to countless other activities where we all accept an element of risk. Is it selfish to ask a puta to visit you in your apartment bcos she needs to catch a taxi and that carries a risk of accident? Is it selfish to have sex with a puta if you had recent unprotected oral or penetration sex with one else – that carries a risk too? Wearing a bright yellow T-shirt might attract bees and the girl might be allergic to bees! . OMG, we need to put a stop to all interaction!

Finally, what about the girl – the claim ignores her circumstances too. Maybe she already had the virus, maybe she is happy to accept the risk, maybe you told her when you arranged to meet her.

Overall, it is a VERY DUMB claim.

[QUOTE=JustTK;2622879]This is one of the dumbest takes I have heard during the pandemic. And I have heard it claimed here a few times. So let's exam the logic a little.[/QUOTE]Is this an example of being respectful? You are constantly complaining about people being insulting and disrespectful, yet here you are again. If you are going to be so adamant about respectful discourse perhaps something like "I strongly disagree that having sex while unvaccinated is selfish" would be better than your "if you don't agree with me you are stupid" intro.

[QUOTE]Firstly, one would need to verify that one is indeed a greater risk to a puta. This is far from clear. A vaxd person is equally likely to spread CV if they have the virus as an unvaxd person. But is the unvaxd person more likely to have the virus? That is very unclear. On average an unvaxd person has a 38% chance of catching the virus over a 20 day period, whereas a vaxd has 25% chance. However, immunological organizations confirm and agree that everyone will get the virus and everyone will have antibodies sooner or later bcos the vax does not prevent transmission. Furthermore, as time goes on, those stats will change in favour of the unvaxd bcos an ever greater proportion of the sample will have caught the disease and will have antibodies. So the 2 groups will effectively merge in to one with no discernible differences.[/QUOTE]"Puta" is a derogatory word. If you must specify, "prostitute" is the respectful term.

Again, I must point out that your statement is incorrect. The study you continue to refer to specifically states that transmission rates for vaccinated and unvaccinated people are only equal within the household environment. All currently available studies show that outside of the household, unvaccinated people have a higher transmission rate than vaccinated people.

Another statement which is not correct is the declaration that everyone will eventually become infected. That's simply not supported. Some, for whatever reason, are not susceptible to the virus.

Your last statement is also incorrect based upon currently available data. We're seeing different levels of protection from different vaccines against different strains. While at some point in the future your statement may be factual, at this time it is not.

[QUOTE]It's important to note also that those stats are averages. They say nothing of the circumstances that any individual may have. One could do a hell of a lot to reduce your likelihood of not having the virus when you have sex go for regular checks, avoid French kissing, make sure you don't go out when you have flu-like symptoms, social distance, take regular exercise, eat a vegan diet, avoid having sex when you're old or obese or have high blood pressure or diabetes (or any other contributory factor), make sure your 2nd vax jab is not more than 2-3 months old, or catch the virus naturally. These actions would be far more effective in reducing transmission than having a vax that is only partially effective. So if one argues that having unvaccinated sex is selfish, then you must accept that having sex while failing to meet any of these conditions is also selfish I doubt anyone here would accept that. [/QUOTE]Haven't you stated an opposition to vaccine mandates? It appears you're suggesting mandates against having sex for people who don't fit into your definition of low risk. Unless you are also insisting all of your sexual partners submit to the same requirements, with proof, before any sexual encounter, your logic seems flawed.

If having sex unvaccinated is selfish, it's because of your risk of infecting others. While there are some ways to reduce your risk of becoming infected, most of what you mentioned are ways to reduce your risk of serious illness or death if you become infected. You understand your contradiction? You claim that everyone will eventually become infected and claim your lifestyle prevents you from becoming infected. Unless you get tested daily, you have no guarantee that you aren't infected.

Furthermore, while there are many communicable diseases, no other which is currently prevalent poses the health risks of Covid. If a girl gives me strep throat, or I give her a cold, complete and rapid recovery is almost certain. Covid however, even cases which aren't severe, poses long term health risks. It's a false equivalence to compare Covid with the common cold.

[QUOTE]Furthermore, you could apply the same dumb logic to countless other activities where we all accept an element of risk. Is it selfish to ask a puta to visit you in your apartment bcos she needs to catch a taxi and that carries a risk of accident? Is it selfish to have sex with a puta if you had recent unprotected oral or penetration sex with one else that carries a risk too? Wearing a bright yellow T-shirt might attract bees and the girl might be allergic to bees! . OMG, we need to put a stop to all interaction![/QUOTE]Again, referring to something you disagree with as "dumb" is disrespectful. What's worse you have yet to prove the logic is flawed, since the core of your rebuttal is based upon your belief which contradicts the study you use to defend your belief. And again, "puta" is disrespectful.

Life carries risk. Every day, every thing comes with an element of risk. It's both hyperbole and a straw man to say nothing should be done that carries risk, and then declare the risk you pose to others as acceptable.

When you are only risking yourself, that is a personal choice. When you are deciding that risking the health, welfare and lives of others is perfectly acceptable, that's selfishness.

[QUOTE]Finally, what about the girl the claim ignores her circumstances too. Maybe she already had the virus, maybe she is happy to accept the risk, maybe you told her when you arranged to meet her.

Overall, it is a VERY DUMB claim.[/QUOTE]Seriously, can you not see the disrespect? Perhaps if you treated the discussion with respect, you would get respectful responses.

Let's examine it from your situation. If I have read your posts correctly, you have a wife and children and another post of yours indicates they are all living with you. Am I correct in assuming you have not allowed, or freely offered the others in your family the chance to get vaccinated? Are you informing them of the increased risk you pose to them each time you choose to visit a prostitute? Have you asked if they are willing to accept the increased risk? If not, selfish seems to be a fair assessment.

Here's an idea which might work better for you. Adopt an attitude of "fuck it." Do what you want. There's no need to constantly argue that what you choose to do is superior to everyone else's decisions. There's no need to misrepresent studies or rationalize what you want to do. Just say "fuck it" and do what you want.

That would save all of the hypocrisy over respect and disrespect and best of all it covers every eventuality. If someone around you gets sick, fuck it. If they die, fuck it. If you get sick, fuck it.

[QUOTE=Paulie97;2622639]Now it's clear who Pedro Morales is, Shoobree the Swede, but this time failed to keep his conversations consistent between his handles. Oops. Anyway pal is going to be a long winter down in your momma's basement in Stockholm, eating pickled herring and beating off with the juice of the same. Of course we are never going to see you in Colombia, "southern Europe," purportedly "roughing up Americans" lololol or any other venue this forum is about. You haven't even the balls to stick with one handle, much less do any traveling or start any fights with any ethnic groups you envy. Wink.[/QUOTE]Not only are you incorrect about everything that you wrote, you also seem to be mentally sick. You're a pathetic weirdo.

We all know that you're hiding in your mothers basement afraid of Covid-19 while I'm out living the life. It can be easy being you, so afraid and weak.

[QUOTE=Huacho;2622594]Well, maybe because the scientific community, as opposed to the tin foil hat crowd, has rejected the concepts of IFR and herd immunity, and maybe because most studies show natural immunity is inferior to and does not last as long as vaxxing. But I personally am done arguing with anti vaxxers and am ready to just start either holding them down and jabbing them or maybe just fucking shooting them. You are a bunch of selfish fucking assholes and it isn't about you or freedom or personal choice. It is a fucking epidemic and sane people are tired of the restrictions and vaccination is the way to go. Hello? Smallpox? Polio? Measles? You people are stupid, ignorant, selfish fucking assholes and probably engage in felching.[/QUOTE]I'm fully vaccinated against C19 and I have to say that you are obviously a nutter ready for the insane asylum.

[QUOTE=Villainy;2622284]Well, I'll give you props for doing your homework. You're still wrong, mind you but you did show some modest intelligence by trying to do your research. Here is the problem in what you came up with:

Yes, Sweden does have about 30% of its population having come from other countries but of that 30% (something close to 10% (1/3 of the 30% came from Norway, Denmark and Finland. And then some more came from Germany too. The largest historical group of immigrants are from Finland. In other words your 30% is greatly exaggerated. AND a number of the immigrants that did come to Sweden over the years, intermarried and assimilated which means that although you may have Swedes with one immigrant parent they still possess genetic characteristic of the general Swedish population.[/QUOTE]You are not only incorrect, what you write is also irrelevant considering the simple fact that it still leaves 20% of the population compared to the 5% in Finland which of course also consists of immigrants from neighboring countries.

More importantly you have failed to take into consideration the number of people with foreign born grandparents.

[QUOTE=Villainy;2622284]Well, I'll give you props for doing your homework. You're still wrong, mind you but you did show some modest intelligence by trying to do your research. Here is the problem in what you came up with:

Yes, Sweden does have about 30% of its population having come from other countries but of that 30% (something close to 10% (1/3 of the 30% came from Norway, Denmark and Finland. And then some more came from Germany too. The largest historical group of immigrants are from Finland. In other words your 30% is greatly exaggerated. AND a number of the immigrants that did come to Sweden over the years, intermarried and assimilated which means that although you may have Swedes with one immigrant parent they still possess genetic characteristic of the general Swedish population.[/QUOTE]Over 2 million are born outside of Sweden and the most common country of birth is Syria followed by Iraq.

You have yet to show any kind of intelligence.

[QUOTE=JustTK;2622879]Finally, what about the girl the claim ignores her circumstances too. Maybe she already had the virus, maybe she is happy to accept the risk, maybe you told her when you arranged to meet her.[/QUOTE]Just because a desperate, ignorant hooker says she is willing to take a risk, does not mean I am willing to PUT her at risk. Because, um, you know, there is a bit of a power disparity between a reasonably wealthy gringo and a desperate, ignorant, maybe strung out hooker. But it certainly doesn't surprise me that you wouldn't give a shit.

[QUOTE=JustTK;2622879]On average an unvaxd person has a 38% chance of catching the virus over a 20 day period, whereas a vaxd has 25% chance. .[/QUOTE]Since this is a foundational statement for your logic that follows it, can you please provide what your basis is for this statement? In the 20+/- months of the pandemic, there is a reported 14% of the US population that has gotten COVID (understanding the % is probably a bit higher given unreported cases). So I'm sure you can understand on some level it is hard to fathom that there's a 25% chance in the next 20 DAYS for vaccinated people. Simple math would imply that over the next year. A vaccinated person would have more than a 99%chance of getting COVID.

USD is getting better against COP. It was 37 xx, now 3870. When will this change to seen on my credit card? I am still getting 37 xx for my most recent transactions.

[QUOTE=Casagoer;2622993]USD is getting better against COP. It was 37 xx, now 3870. When will this change to seen on my credit card? I am still getting 37 xx for my most recent transactions.[/QUOTE]It will be the second business day after you see the rate on [URL]Xe.com[/URL]. You can go to [URL]https://usa.visa.com/support/consumer/travel-support/exchange-rate-calculator.html[/URL] and see the up-to-date rate you will get. Monday, you should see 3832 and Tuesday, 3872 (something close to those amounts). Keep in mind, Visa changes the rate at midnight GMT which is 7 pm Colombian time.

[QUOTE=FunLuvr;2623049]It will be the second business day after you see the rate on [URL]Xe.com[/URL]. You can go to [URL]https://usa.visa.com/support/consumer/travel-support/exchange-rate-calculator.html[/URL] and see the up-to-date rate you will get. Monday, you should see 3832 and Tuesday, 3872 (something close to those amounts). Keep in mind, Visa changes the rate at midnight GMT which is 7 pm Colombian time.[/QUOTE]You are right Fun Luvr the Visa rate is changed at midnight to reflect the days activity and some guesstimate about direction. But The rate set Friday and midnight will be the same for Saturday, Sunday and Monday.

The reason is that Sunday at midnight there is no new data so every weekend is a 3 day weekend so to speak. The rate will change Monday and midnight for Tuesday.

[QUOTE=ShooBree;2622931]Over 2 million are born outside of Sweden and the most common country of birth is Syria followed by Iraq.

You have yet to show any kind of intelligence.[/QUOTE]So thank you for all your BS. The question is which country or countries would you compare to Sweden? Step back and get back to the point. I would happily argue with you about the immigration dynamics but this all circles back to comparing what Sweden did to another country that did something different. So Elvis-clone. Which country or countries are the best match and comparison with Sweden?? Despite all your rhetoric. Show me another country or countries that more closely match Sweden. If you can't do that, then stop wasting my time.

For everyone out there who feels that acquired immunity from infection with Covid is superior to getting vaccinated, I have a question.

Why haven't you made an effort to get infected?

At this point roughly 1 in 30 of the population, or more has had Covid. Surely we're all smart enough to figure out how to find an infected, contagious person and spend some time in close proximity to them. The ratio of the population that sells marijuana is much lower and I'm sure none of us would have difficulty finding someone who sells it.

So, what is your reason for not being proactive towards acquiring some natural immunity? Wouldn't it be better to get some immunity before a really bad variant pops up?

[QUOTE=JustTK;2622879]This is one of the dumbest takes I have heard during the pandemic. And I have heard it claimed here a few times. So let's exam the logic a little.

Firstly, one would need to verify that one is indeed a greater risk to a puta. This is far from clear. A vaxd person is equally likely to spread CV if they have the virus as an unvaxd person. But is the unvaxd person more likely to have the virus? That is very unclear. On average an unvaxd person has a 38% chance of catching the virus over a 20 day period, whereas a vaxd has 25% chance. However, immunological organizations confirm and agree that everyone will get the virus and everyone will have antibodies sooner or later bcos the vax does not prevent transmission. Furthermore, as time goes on, those stats will change in favour of the unvaxd bcos an ever greater proportion of the sample will have caught the disease and will have antibodies. So the 2 groups will effectively merge in to one with no discernible differences.

It's important to note also that those stats are averages. They say nothing of the circumstances that any individual may have. One could do a hell of a lot to reduce your likelihood of not having the virus when you have sex go for regular checks, avoid French kissing, make sure you don't go out when you have flu-like symptoms, social distance, take regular exercise, eat a vegan diet, avoid having sex when you're old or obese or have high blood pressure or diabetes (or any other contributory factor), make sure your 2nd vax jab is not more than 2-3 months old, or catch the virus naturally. These actions would be far more effective in reducing transmission than having a vax that is only partially effective. So if one argues that having unvaccinated sex is selfish, then you must accept that having sex while failing to meet any of these conditions is also selfish I doubt anyone here would accept that.

Furthermore, you could apply the same dumb logic to countless other activities where we all accept an element of risk. Is it selfish to ask a puta to visit you in your apartment bcos she needs to catch a taxi and that carries a risk of accident? Is it selfish to have sex with a puta if you had recent unprotected oral or penetration sex with one else that carries a risk too? Wearing a bright yellow T-shirt might attract bees and the girl might be allergic to bees! . OMG, we need to put a stop to all interaction!

Finally, what about the girl the claim ignores her circumstances too. Maybe she already had the virus, maybe she is happy to accept the risk, maybe you told her when you arranged to meet her.

Overall, it is a VERY DUMB claim.[/QUOTE]Bro, don't argue with covidiots. Its absolutely not worth your time.

[QUOTE=JjBee62;2622854]That was vicious, even dastardly for me to once again slap you with a narcissist's dilemma. All I can say is it's something you can control. Stop trying to include me in your narcissistic fantasies and I'll stop broadsiding you with the narcissist's dilemmas.[/QUOTE]You are not hitting me with a dilemma Professor Shit for Brains. I said it was 50-50 you would stroke out in the next 5 years, and it looks like you have done it already. So tell me Professor, why didn't you have a stroke, the negative MRI? And are you saying stroke symptoms are not related to Covid?

And what did your doctors put down for a final diagnosis, "I don't know"? I heard insurance companies pay out real well for that diagnosis.

[QUOTE=VasyaPetya;2623100]Bro, don't argue with covidiots. Its absolutely not worth your time.[/QUOTE]This is a perfect example of someone that wants to be heard but lacks the wits to formulate any sort of argument so he just insults and runs. Impressive. Wink.

[QUOTE=JjBee62;2622914]Life carries risk. Every day, every thing comes with an element of risk. It's both hyperbole and a straw man to say nothing should be done that carries risk, and then declare the risk you pose to others as acceptable.

When you are only risking yourself, that is a personal choice. When you are deciding that risking the health, welfare and lives of others is perfectly acceptable, that's selfishness.[/QUOTE]Reminds me of months ago when he first discovered his new home here in the Colombia forum, while equating Covid with car cashes and asking why no one is calling for the removal of all cars from the road. What he neglected was that there's a world of mitigation going on with cars, safety protocols and inspections, speed limits, seat belt and drunk driving laws, and the list goes on.

I personally doubt he spends much time chasing hookers as so much of his days are spent here typing out fallacious arguments. Wouldn't surprise me for a moment if he's never set foot in Colombia. We have a lot of those around here. Wink.

[QUOTE=VasyaPetya;2623100]Bro, don't argue with covidiots. Its absolutely not worth your time.[/QUOTE]Plus, he's not very good at it, a feeling I'm sure you're familiar with.

Here's a pro-tip:

If you want to discuss a subject, any subject, discuss it. If you're not interested in hearing anything anyone else has to say on the subject, don't discuss it.

It's like your religious beliefs. If you just want a bunch of people to tell you how wonderful they are, go chat with the people at your favorite religious institution. If you want to insist your beliefs are the only ones, go fuck yourself with a rusty cattle prod. There's a third option, but people with strongly held religious beliefs are seldom interested in hearing questions which contradict their dogma. I've noticed it's the same with anti-vaxxers and people who insist on rights which they don't have.

There's much worthy of discussion regarding Covid and vaccines, but only one side wants to have a discussion. The other side has spent the last 20 months insisting:

1. Covid is a hoax.

2. Covid isn't as bad as the flu.

3. Covid is no worse than the flu.

4. Covid is the flu, just a worse type of the flu.

5. Covid is a weapon created by China.

6. Covid is a weapon China created for the US.

7. Covid is just a trick to bring about a "new world order."

8. Vaccines don't work.

9. Vaccines are a trick to inject us with microchips to control us.

10. Vaccines are killing more people than Covid.

And that's without getting into the really wacky shit.

So, if you don't want to have a discussion, there's no need to tell us you don't want to have a discussion. If you just want to throw insults, then jump right in.

And as a side note, you did notice MrE's discovery that:

A. You are subject to have your phone searched in Colombia.

Be. If you refuse they can detain you while the police break into your phone and search it.

I believe you stated otherwise? As I said, you're probably familiar with not being good at all this discussion stuff.

[QUOTE=JjBee62;2623245]Plus, he's not very good at it, a feeling I'm sure you're familiar with.
Here's a pro-tip: If you want to discuss a subject, any subject, discuss it. If you're not interested in hearing anything anyone else has to say on the subject, don't discuss it.
[/QUOTE]I am willing to discuss it. I had a very productive chat here a coupla weeks ago, with some guy that presented his arguments in a respectful way. I just refuse to engage with people that cannot attack the argument, only attack the person.

I am not anti-vax. I am anti- unnessary and not very good vax. And also anti-vivisection. But you just lump everyone in to the same bucket to make your life easier to attack.

I said nothing about immigration rights, so that's another bullshlt story. Well done, keep it up.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2623110]You are not hitting me with a dilemma Professor Shit for Brains. I said it was 50-50 you would stroke out in the next 5 years, and it looks like you have done it already. So tell me Professor, why didn't you have a stroke, the negative MRI? And are you saying stroke symptoms are not related to Covid?

And what did your doctors put down for a final diagnosis, "I don't know"? I heard insurance companies pay out real well for that diagnosis.[/QUOTE]You wish to play doctor with me again? My goodness. You also wish access to my insurance information. Surely you recognize that's illegal, counselor.

Let's clear it up. Simple as can be. Name a city in the continental US, only requirement is that the city has at least 2 practicing psychologists. Pick a date. I can do December 6, 13, or 20. I'll choose a psychologist qualified to perform aptitude testing. I'll set 2 appointments. I'll pay in advance for both appointments. We'll both complete the same battery of tests. Takes about an hour. We'll get the results. We'll post the results right here. Low score pays high score $5,000.

You even get the better deal. You can pick a location convenient to you and you don't have to pay for your test. Tell me. What are you afraid of? You keep running away. Every time I offer to test one of your claims, you take off like a scared little bunny and hide in a hole for a few days. Every single time! Come on out and prove yourself.

And why do you always run from my rebuttal? Why not respond to the questions? Here, I'll even make that simple for you, you can even ask a real doctor to help with the answers:

1. If a person is experiencing fever, shortness of breath and a persistent dry cough, should they get a Covid test?

2. If a person has heart palpitations, dizziness and weakness, with a history of atrial fibrillation, without fever, cough, shortness of breath or loss of sense of taste or smell, should they get a Covid test?

Now your original answer was that I was stupid for getting a Covid test for the first scenario and that I was stupid for not getting a Covid test for the second scenario. Do you wish to change your answers, or are you going to pick a city and date so we can get a definitive answer on our comparative intelligence? Or is it going to be scared bunny again? (Spoiler alert. It's going to be scared bunny all the way).

While we're on the subject. You claimed I was spreading Covid throughout Colombia (technically you claimed the entire continent, but I understand your need for hyperbole). However another board member, a person who gives frequent tours in Bogota claims he has had Covid 5 times, giving tours, visiting clubs. A different BM said he had Covid, continued to see girls and got a Certificate of Recovery via a video visit well before completing quarantine. A third BM was positive for Covid and asked for opinions about whether or not he should isolate. All things publicly posted here.

4 people positive for Covid. Only 1 of the 4 immediately went into quarantine upon learning, informed his personal contacts and posted here for anyone who he forgot to inform. 2 others continued business as usual and the last one, if I remember correctly, only took a day or two out of commission. Yet the only one you commented on, the only one you accused of starting a new wave of infections (while also claiming a significant drop in new infections), was the one person who took action to prevent infecting others. Care to explain the discrepancy?

I know the answer. You also know the answer, but only one of us is able to get you the treatment you need.

And let's not forget your own claim of being exposed "hundreds of times. " You forgot to mention how, after each exposure, you isolated for 5-7 days and then got tested to confirm you weren't infected (just did the math, if we're being held to the same standards you've had to isolate for a minimum of just under 3 years over the past 20 months). Or was that just more of your silliness? You can't hold 1 person to a standard while not holding yourself and others to the same standard.

Does December 13 in Dallas work for you? Let's solve this.

Almost forgot. What you said is that I would die from a stroke in the next 5 years. Are you suggesting I'm posting from some afterlife? Did you just call me your Messiah? I think you did!

Don't forget, I also offered you a bet on that one. Let's make it $1 million. Have your lawyer draw it up. I'll get a $1 million life insurance policy with a 5 year term (5 years from July 2021, because I expect you'll still be making that prediction without accepting a wager long after 5 years have passed). Contestability period is 2 years. If I die of stroke or cerebral hemorrhage, you're the beneficiary. If I die of other causes, or survive your escrow of $100,000 comes to me (or my estate). Where else are you going to get 10-1 odds? (Scared bunny mode engaged).

[QUOTE=JustTK;2623277]I am willing to discuss it. I had a very productive chat here a coupla weeks ago, with some guy that presented his arguments in a respectful way. I just refuse to engage with people that cannot attack the argument, only attack the person.

I am not anti-vax. I am anti- unnessary and not very good vax. And also anti-vivisection. But you just lump everyone in to the same bucket to make your life easier to attack. [B](Why would I want to make my life easier to attack?)[/B]

I said nothing about immigration rights, so that's another bullshlt story. Well done, keep it up.[/QUOTE]Sorry, you lost me there. I don't recall mentioning anything recently about immigration rights. Are you confusing me with someone else, or did I post something I don't remember?

As respectfully as possible, I disagree. I just posted a respectful response, pointing out the flaws in your argument. Yet, you had already refused to engage with me, because I offered arguments you couldn't counter. I also pointed out your hypocrisy in regards to your whole "respectful" schtick.

And you have mentioned several times you are anti-vivisection, which was your original reason for not getting vaccinated. It's pretty funny if you think about it. I'm assuming that's also the reason behind the vegan diet? I'm fully supportive of a person's dietary choices and a vegan diet is certainly healthier than my diet. But I always get a good laugh when someone states their choice is because of an unwillingness to participate in the slaughter of "sentient beings. "

I acknowledge, that if I want a nice, thicky juicy stake, cooked rare (just cook it until it stops mooing), some steer is going to have to give its life in order for my horseradish to have something to go on. However, no matter what diet I choose, I'm requiring the slaughter of "sentient beings" along with the destruction of their habitat. It's hard to grow lentils without first clear cutting a forest and burning out what remains.

Every action, every day, to support human life requires non-human life to suffer on a scale which is beyond your imagination. I accept that, because as liberal as I am, or as liberal as I'm accused of being, I prefer sex with humans over sex with animals. Although I admit, I've never given the sheep a chance to prove themselves.

You remind me of a protest I saw outside of a Furrier long ago. All those people with their BMWs waving signs and then climbing back into that nice leather interior.

[QUOTE=JustTK;2623277]I am willing to discuss it. I had a very productive chat here a coupla weeks ago, with some guy that presented his arguments in a respectful way. I just refuse to engage with people that cannot attack the argument, only attack the person.

I am not anti-vax. I am anti- unnessary and not very good vax. And also anti-vivisection. But you just lump everyone in to the same bucket to make your life easier to attack.

I said nothing about immigration rights, so that's another bullshlt story. Well done, keep it up.[/QUOTE]Actually, many of us have attacked your arguments, requested citations, requested sources, etc. It's only because you don't ever provide any meaningful support for any of your inaccurate nonsense, keep repeating it, and are disrespectful while doing so that we eventually started telling you how full of shit you are. You're a Typhoid Mary and you should be incarcerated if you can't modify your dangerous behavior. Or deported back to Never-Never Land or wherever you are from (Scandinavia is my guess).

[QUOTE=JjBee62;2623293]You wish to play doctor with me again? My goodness. You also wish access to my insurance information. Surely you recognize that's illegal, counselor.[/QUOTE]It is not illegal when you go spitting out your medical history over the entire internet professor shit for brains. You ascribe me as being a narcissist than give a medical history so basic for a TIA or mini stroke that if a medical student missed the diagnosis, he would flunk his rotation.

So the notion that eight health care professionals could not come up with what is wrong with you is a fucking lie. They would create a list of possibilities and it not a big list, and #1 on that list would be stroke / mini stroke.

Furthermore, because Covid causes clots, and clots can become strokes, the notion that you had no symptoms of Covid is dead wrong.

In fact, the reason the doctors would not have tested for Covid IMO is because they were so sure of their diagnosis already.

And then you decide to go to Colombia in this weakened state when it is teaming with Covid and the USA has at the time comparably has little. How much did the fact that you were vaccinated and you thought you had 95% immunity factor into that boneheaded decision?

Well, at least now we all know why my posting was bothering your mental state. I said that it was 50-50 you stroke out in the next 5 years and you already had. Instead of dealing with reality, you chose to call me a narcissist.

I told you to be humble, deal with reality, and to focus on your own well being. This long ass pathetic post just shows how sick in the head you are, and I will give you the biggest insult I can. I expected this from you. You are going to die from denial.

My mind is apparently functioning fine. After all I was able to predict you would do the scared, bunny trick from my wagers. Although, that's not really much of a test.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2623331]It is not illegal when you go spitting out your medical history over the entire internet professor shit for brains. You ascribe me as being a narcissist than give a medical history so basic for a TIA or mini stroke that if a medical student missed the diagnosis, he would flunk his rotation.

So the notion that eight health care professionals could not come up with what is wrong with you is a fucking lie. They would create a list of possibilities and it not a big list, and #1 on that list would be stroke / mini stroke.[/QUOTE]If you want to come here, I'll go with you to the hospital and give you access to my medical records. Then you can pretend you're a doctor with the real doctors. Maybe one of them will let you wear his stethoscope.

If you want more detail, come on down. But stroke wasn't on the list, although that was the second thing checked for. There was one possibility that almost certainly isn't on your fictional list. You're the one making the remote diagnosis. Tell me what it could be.

Yes, I spread what I experienced over the internet, especially after the positive Covid test, because others might experience a similar set of symptoms and nobody know to check for Covid.

[QUOTE]Furthermore, because Covid causes clots, and clots can become strokes, the notion that you had no symptoms of Covid is dead wrong.

In fact, the reason the doctors would not have tested for Covid IMO is because they were so sure of their diagnosis already.[/QUOTE]But we've already determined that your opinion isn't worth the price of a pig shit sandwich on moldy bread. After all, your opinion was that Covid was a hoax, that the flu was much worse, that Covid was no worse than the flu, that US deaths would never exceed 40,000, then 80,000, and you scoffed at reports it could exceed 200,000. Maybe, just maybe if you hadn't declared yourself to be all knowing on Covid and then had to change your declarations every week, someone would be interested in your opinion.

But, let's just assume this time, your opinion is not complete bullshit. Tell me Oh Glorious Keeper of All Knowledge, After 6 hours in the ER, would they have let a stroke victim walk out? If your answer is anything but "No" then your opinion is, as already stated, worthless. Would a stroke victim likely been able to drive 40 miles home? Two days later, would a stroke victim been able to drive for 7 hours? The answer is "no" because they wouldn't have released me if they had diagnosed a stroke. They would be trying to find a cause, probably putting me on blood thinners and referring me to a specialist.

One final bit before moving on. There were no blood clots, no stroke, so no symptom of Covid.

[QUOTE]And then you decide to go to Colombia in this weakened state when it is teaming with Covid and the USA has at the time comparably has little. How much did the fact that you were vaccinated and you thought you had 95% immunity factor into that boneheaded decision?[/QUOTE]My weakened state? You're funny. I work a minimum of 70 hours every week, about once a month I'll have an 80 hour week, occasionally, more. Just last Monday I worked from 2 pm until 8 am. That's 18 hours without a break, other than the bathroom and to grab a quick bite. Although I was exhausted from the week before my problem, I wasn't exactly invalid and after 2 days of sleep, I felt back to normal.

As for the comparative Covid rates, at the time of my trip, per capita cases locally were 4 times higher than in Medellin. Besides, have you forgotten again. You claimed ending the lockdown caused a drop in Covid cases, at the time of my trip.

How much did my vaccination status go into my decision? Not much. I took a trip 7 months earlier when there was no vaccine.

[QUOTE]Well, at least now we all know why my posting was bothering your mental state. I said that it was 50-50 you stroke out in the next 5 years and you already had. Instead of dealing with reality, you chose to call me a narcissist.

I told you to be humble, deal with reality, and to focus on your own well being. This long ass pathetic post just shows how sick in the head you are, and I will give you the biggest insult I can. I expected this from you. You are going to die from denial.[/QUOTE]We both know why I called you a narcissist. It's because you're a narcissist. As far as having a stroke, not yet. My medical records are right here for your viewing pleasure. Come out from under your bed and I'll show them to you.

My well being is doing just fine.

[QUOTE=Villainy;2623056]So thank you for all your BS. The question is which country or countries would you compare to Sweden? Step back and get back to the point. I would happily argue with you about the immigration dynamics but this all circles back to comparing what Sweden did to another country that did something different. So Elvis-clone. Which country or countries are the best match and comparison with Sweden?? Despite all your rhetoric. Show me another country or countries that more closely match Sweden. If you can't do that, then stop wasting my time.[/QUOTE]Oh, this is hilarious. I was simply responding to your post, so take a look at yourself. Are you a goldfish? That would explain your short memory.

It's funny how you claim that lockdowns works so well but completely ignore the countries with high mortality rates despite their lockdowns. That's cherry-picking. Simple as that, there's no more to discuss.

What country to compare Sweden with, for real? Are you 5 years old? I would compare it to Turkey, Iran, Iraq, Syria and Somalia.

I most certainly wouldn't expect it to be the same as Norway and Finland considering how those countries differ concerning other stats like gang shootings, rapes, healthcare and migration.

You seem to be stuck in the 70's. You must be from the USA, that would explain how you can be so clueless and arrogant at the same time.

[QUOTE=Huacho;2623307]Actually, many of us have attacked your arguments, requested citations, requested sources, etc. It's only because you don't ever provide any meaningful support for any of your inaccurate nonsense, keep repeating it, and are disrespectful while doing so that we eventually started telling you how full of shit you are. You're a Typhoid Mary and you should be incarcerated if you can't modify your dangerous behavior. Or deported back to Never-Never Land or wherever you are from (Scandinavia is my guess).[/QUOTE]You belong in insane asylum.

[QUOTE=JjBee62;2623304]Sorry, you lost me there. I don't recall mentioning anything recently about immigration rights. Are you confusing me with someone else, or did I post something I don't remember?[/QUOTE]You wrote "And as a side note, you did notice MrE's discovery that:

A. You are subject to have your phone searched in Colombia.

Be. If you refuse they can detain you while the police break into your phone and search it.

I believe you stated otherwise? As I said, you're probably familiar with not being good at all this discussion stuff. ".

That was in reference to passing thru immigration. I didn't say anything about that. So that was a false accusation.

[QUOTE=JjBee62;2623304]As respectfully as possible, I disagree. I just posted a respectful response, pointing out the flaws in your argument. Yet, you had already refused to engage with me, because I offered arguments you couldn't counter. I also pointed out your hypocrisy in regards to your whole "respectful" schtick.[/QUOTE]Well, this response seems a little better, but you usual tone is smug self-righteusness, dripping in condescension, and often outright insults.

You say you called out my hypocrisy, but there is nothing hypocritical in my position. I attack arguments, not people. The only times I insult people is in retaliation to their insults.

[QUOTE=JjBee62;2623304]Every action, every day, to support human life requires non-human life to suffer on a scale which is beyond your imagination.[/QUOTE]I don't know why you must say it is beyong my imagination. Are you insulting my imagination now too? I didn't realise you were party to the scope of my imagination.

Veganism is not about elliminating all suffering. It is minimising suffering where possible and practical. We all recognise that life on Earth requires some, often unintentional, suffering. But vegans do not advocate for the elimination of all life on Earth in order to avoid all suffering. Just tread as lightly as one can. That involves not murdering and torturing animals for a whimsical 5 minutes of taste pleasure.

[QUOTE=Huacho;2623307]Actually, many of us have attacked your arguments, requested citations, requested sources, etc. It's only because you don't ever provide any meaningful support for any of your inaccurate nonsense, keep repeating it, and are disrespectful while doing so that we eventually started telling you how full of shit you are. You're a Typhoid Mary and you should be incarcerated if you can't modify your dangerous behavior. Or deported back to Never-Never Land or wherever you are from (Scandinavia is my guess).[/QUOTE]You are one of the members I ignore bcos I hadn't seen any of your responses that were not insulting. And this comment here is another example of your inability to communiacate in a respectful way. So all I can say is go FK urself little fella.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2623331]It is not illegal when you go spitting out your medical history over the entire internet professor shit for brains. You ascribe me as being a narcissist than give a medical history so basic for a TIA or mini stroke that if a medical student missed the diagnosis, he would flunk his rotation.

So the notion that eight health care professionals could not come up with what is wrong with you is a fucking lie. They would create a list of possibilities and it not a big list, and #1 on that list would be stroke / mini stroke.

Furthermore, because Covid causes clots, and clots can become strokes, the notion that you had no symptoms of Covid is dead wrong.

In fact, the reason the doctors would not have tested for Covid IMO is because they were so sure of their diagnosis already.

And then you decide to go to Colombia in this weakened state when it is teaming with Covid and the USA has at the time comparably has little. How much did the fact that you were vaccinated and you thought you had 95% immunity factor into that boneheaded decision?

Well, at least now we all know why my posting was bothering your mental state. I said that it was 50-50 you stroke out in the next 5 years and you already had. Instead of dealing with reality, you chose to call me a narcissist..[/QUOTE]Bro, gtfo here with your covid fear mongering. Everyone on this planet who steps outside his door will contract covid at one point in their lives.

[QUOTE=ShooBree;2623628]Oh, this is hilarious. I was simply responding to your post, so take a look at yourself. Are you a goldfish? That would explain your short memory.

It's funny how you claim that lockdowns works so well but completely ignore the countries with high mortality rates despite their lockdowns. That's cherry-picking. Simple as that, there's no more to discuss.

What country to compare Sweden with, for real? Are you 5 years old? I would compare it to Turkey, Iran, Iraq, Syria and Somalia.

I most certainly wouldn't expect it to be the same as Norway and Finland considering how those countries differ concerning other stats like gang shootings, rapes, healthcare and migration.

You seem to be stuck in the 70's. You must be from the USA, that would explain how you can be so clueless and arrogant at the same time.[/QUOTE]I'm not sure you are smart enough to understand the point of the discussion. You are saying that you think CoVid prevention and procedures are related to gang shootings, rapes and healthcare and migration. So on that basis you think Sweden is most closely related and comparable to Turkey, Iran, Iraq, Syria and Somalia.

I'm obviously way out of date but everything I've read says that factors like climate, genetic similarities and population density have a lot to do with CoVid transmission. I can't ever remember seeing gang shootings being a related factor. Maybe you would be so kind as to share your sources that point in that direction. Otherwise I think everyone here thinks you are Elvis-in-drag and not capable of an intelligent discussion.

Let's start from the back and go forward.

[QUOTE=JjBee62;2623529]My well being is doing just fine.[/QUOTE]Covid, A-fib, RA, and now a neurological illness that no one supposedly diagnosed that you have determined is not coming back. That is doing fine? Denial with you is a river in Egypt.

[QUOTE=JjBee62;2623529]One final bit before moving on. There were no blood clots, no stroke, so no symptom of Covid.[/QUOTE]I could argue that this is so fucking stupid it should go first. Professor Shit for Brains, do you know why people in A-fib have clots and strokes? It is because their blood does not properly flow when the heart is not beating right, and it clots.

Let's go to symptoms of Covid.

You said that you had fatigue, light headedness, heart palpitations and chest pain. You said they were due to A-fib and not Covid. It is possible that is what did it, but on what fucking planet are those not symptoms of Covid? And you are giving everyone lectures on Covid? Do you even know what Covid is you moron?

Oh and you have rheumatoid arthritis? I am sure you think that has nothing to do with blood clots either.

Now when you form blood clots, the body has the mechanism to break up said clots. If the body can break up the clots and the cells can hang on despite the interruption of oxygen and nutrients, they do not die. And if brain cells did not die (or really not that many died) after the dissolution of clots, a brain MRI would be normal. That is how you tell the difference between a stroke and a mini stroke or TIA, the reversal of symptoms in a short period of time.

So, gee, A-fib, RA, Covid, and a reversible neurological event? What could it be? It cannot be blood clots because you said so, and you are the all knowing Professor Shit for Brains.

I didn't say you had a 50% chance of dying from a stroke. Strokes do not kill that often. I said you had a 50% chance of stroking out which means damage or disability from a stroke. And what I meant were stroke symptoms like dizziness, an inability to talk or talk correctly or not using your extremities properly, symptoms you have never had before. Most people who stroke out die from heart attacks.

But that is okay. Your brilliant doctors, the ones who diagnosed you with "I don't know" and did not run a Covid test when you had symptoms, said you are fine, so you should go with that.

As for my opinion, well, this is expected, a trial run. The inability to break up the clots and the location of those failures are what determine the final symptoms of a stroke.

But you do not need to worry because you did not have any clots, and I am not going to debate a moron who is in denial about his health anymore. You are on ignore.

[QUOTE=HighOnTravel;2623713]Bro, gtfo here with your covid fear mongering. Everyone on this planet who steps outside his door will contract covid at one point in their lives.[/QUOTE]HOT,

I have not been Covid fear mongering, just the opposite. I am making fun of a Democratic douche who at first lectured and fear mongered, then got vaccinated, then got Covid. He had symptoms of Covid but did not know he had it, spread it all over two continents, and after all that is back lecturing about the dangers of Covid (even though he STILL does know Covid symptoms) and the benefits of the vaccine. I WISH I were making that up.

I agree with you. Covid is here to stay and we have to live with it.

[QUOTE=HighOnTravel;2623713]Bro, gtfo here with your covid fear mongering. Every [b]unvaccinated moron [/b]on this planet who steps outside his door will contract covid at one point in their lives.[/QUOTE]Fixed that for you!

[QUOTE=JustTK;2623675]You wrote "And as a side note, you did notice MrE's discovery that:

A. You are subject to have your phone searched in Colombia.

Be. If you refuse they can detain you while the police break into your phone and search it.

I believe you stated otherwise? As I said, you're probably familiar with not being good at all this discussion stuff. ".

That was in reference to passing thru immigration. I didn't say anything about that. So that was a false accusation.[/QUOTE]I'm probably going to be disrespectful here.

Maybe you should go back and read that again. Or maybe not, if you prefer to wallow in your ignorance. The person I was responding to, is the person who was saying he couldn't be detained for not unlocking his phone. How did you fail to understand that, and what the fuck does that have to do with "immigration rights?" It wasn't a false accusation, because it had nothing to do with you.

Do you now understand why I have trouble being polite and respectful when I'm inundated with idiots incapable of understanding a couple of simple sentences.

[QUOTE]Well, this response seems a little better, but you usual tone is smug self-righteusness, dripping in condescension, and often outright insults.

You say you called out my hypocrisy, but there is nothing hypocritical in my position. I attack arguments, not people. The only times I insult people is in retaliation to their insults.[/QUOTE]So, let's see if I understand this correctly. Stating, as you did, that vaccination causes Dunning Kruger, in a post that was not in response to anyone who insulted you, is in no way insulting or disrespectful? Is that the statement you are going to stand by? Referring to women, who aren't even on ISG, as "putas" is not insulting or disrespectful? Shall I go on? Your hypocrisy is rather obvious, at least to everyone else.

[QUOTE]I don't know why you must say it is beyong my imagination. Are you insulting my imagination now too? I didn't realise you were party to the scope of my imagination.

Veganism is not about elliminating all suffering. It is minimising suffering where possible and practical. We all recognise that life on Earth requires some, often unintentional, suffering. But vegans do not advocate for the elimination of all life on Earth in order to avoid all suffering. Just tread as lightly as one can. That involves not murdering and torturing animals for a whimsical 5 minutes of taste pleasure.[/QUOTE]I say it's beyond your imagination, because it's beyond most people's imagination,. It's beyond most people's imagination because they don't have any experience with the path from field to table. Because they don't want to know about it. Have you ever worked at farming? I'm not talking about raising a couple of plants in a backyard garden. I'm talking about thousands of acres of farmland. Have you ever been inside a grain mill? Pound for pound a vegan diet results in just as much animal death as an omnivorous diet.

Can you wrap your imagination around that concept, or is it, as I stated, beyond your imagination?

Veganism causes just as much suffering as raising animals for meat. Did you fail to understand, again? I'll go with condescending and insulting here. It would be easier if you knew the difference between a farm and a forest. Let's use beans today. Now, in order to plant beans, I need a field. Which means, since fields aren't naturally occurring, whatever is growing and living on the land where I want to grow beans, needs to be destroyed, wiped out, obliterated. Everything from large mammals down to small reptiles had better run away or it gets killed. If the land was previously a prairie, I could have just put up a fence, brought in some cattle and the cattle could live in harmony with everything else.

But noooo. That would be cruel. We've got to have beans instead. The first step is a controlled burn. You set fire to the prairie and everything living there either gets burned alive, or it runs away, but the habitat is destroyed. Next, you plow the land, destroying anything which might have survived living beneath the soil. After working the soil some more, eventually beans are planted and everything can return to normal.

That's just the beginning. There's so much more to consider, irrigation, harvesting, plus all the little bean eating animals which need to be killed to protect the profits.

It's a cute little concept, "treading as lightly as one can", but it's just a fantasy.

[QUOTE=Villainy;2623725]I'm not sure you are smart enough to understand the point of the discussion. You are saying that you think CoVid prevention and procedures are related to gang shootings, rapes and healthcare and migration. So on that basis you think Sweden is most closely related and comparable to Turkey, Iran, Iraq, Syria and Somalia.

I'm obviously way out of date but everything I've read says that factors like climate, genetic similarities and population density have a lot to do with CoVid transmission. I can't ever remember seeing gang shootings being a related factor. Maybe you would be so kind as to share your sources that point in that direction. Otherwise I think everyone here thinks you are Elvis-in-drag and not capable of an intelligent discussion.[/QUOTE]Wow, you're even dumber than I thought. The original claim that I made (which made you cry) was that lockdowns won't guarantee success. That is obviously correct and factual considering the situation in countries like Peru, France, Spain, Italy and so on.

You came in like a clown making false claims acting as if Sweden is exactly the same as Norway and Finland and I gave pointed out several examples which shows how outdated and inaccurate your fake news are.

Anyways, you didn't even have the intelligence to mention that the culture of a country also matters.

[QUOTE=ShooBree;2624014]Wow, you're even dumber than I thought. The original claim that I made (which made you cry) was that lockdowns won't guarantee success. That is obviously correct and factual considering the situation in countries like Peru, France, Spain, Italy and so on.

You came in like a clown making false claims acting as if Sweden is exactly the same as Norway and Finland and I gave pointed out several examples which shows how outdated and inaccurate your fake news are.

Anyways, you didn't even have the intelligence to mention that the culture of a country also matters.[/QUOTE]If you want to see dumb. Look in the nearest mirror. The whole discussion came from a post pointing out all the silliness out of the Elvis school of lunacy. You had a hissy fit when I pointed out that Sweden did much worse with CoVid containment than its neighbors who are the best comparison. OH NO says Shoo Bree. The best comparison is Iraq, Iran, Syria and Somalia because of gang shootings and rape. Seriously? That redefines dumb in a way that even Elvis might not try to defend. You are seriously making me reconsider changing the "Elvis School of Lunacy" to the "ShooBree School of the Retarded". Kind of has a nice ring. Don't you think?

[QUOTE=JjBee62;2623875]I'm probably going to be disrespectful here.
Maybe you should go back and read that again. Or maybe not, if you prefer to wallow in your ignorance. The person I was responding to, is the person who was saying he couldn't be detained for not unlocking his phone. How did you fail to understand that, and what the fuck does that have to do with "immigration rights?" It wasn't a false accusation, because it had nothing to do with you.
[/QUOTE]Yes you are being disrespectful again. I guess that's just the way many USAns are. They can't help themselves in their "exceptionalism". You wrote "And as a side note, you did notice MrE's discovery that:. " So clearly you were writing to me as your response was to my comment. So calling me ignorant for your incorrect / inaccurate comment just shows what a FKN MORON you are. And yes that whole discussion was about the rights of immigration officials to seach cellphones, so it was everything to do w immigration you FKN MORON.

I am really tired of chatting w you you FKN MORON. So don't expact any more replies from me you FKN MORON.

It is great to see folk blasting away at each other Though this thread is too rich for mas comment (good point on ploughing a field), we cannot have the language of Cervantes abused.

Though puta is the Spanish for hooker, it is also a semi-respectable curse to encompass low class males or females, pick pockets, thieves and the like, something like mother fucker (chinga tu madre) in what passes for English in the USA.

If anyone with an urge to be fast tracked to a morgue wants some racier Spanish, much more brutal insults are at hand.

[QUOTE=Villainy;2624042]If you want to see dumb. Look in the nearest mirror. The whole discussion came from a post pointing out all the silliness out of the Elvis school of lunacy. You had a hissy fit when I pointed out that Sweden did much worse with CoVid containment than its neighbors who are the best comparison. OH NO says Shoo Bree. The best comparison is Iraq, Iran, Syria and Somalia because of gang shootings and rape. Seriously? That redefines dumb in a way that even Elvis might not try to defend. You are seriously making me reconsider changing the "Elvis School of Lunacy" to the "ShooBree School of the Retarded". Kind of has a nice ring. Don't you think?[/QUOTE]Is hilarious, the dork calls comparing his country to it's Nordic neighbors "cheerpicking," then he "cheerypicks" running to countries far away that have little in common with Sweden. In any case, he's never been to Colombia, never will go, and the closest thing he'll ever see to world travel is morphing around ISG as a coward under of host of different user names. This record played out over a year ago. He must be very bored down in momma's basement to come by here trying for a rerun.

[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2624056]It is great to see folk blasting away at each other Though this thread is too rich for mas comment (good point on ploughing a field), we cannot have the language of Cervantes abused.

Though puta is the Spanish for hooker, it is also a semi-respectable curse to encompass low class males or females, pick pockets, thieves and the like, something like mother fucker .[/QUOTE]Thk you for posting some sense. Quite rare in this section. Not only is puta not an insult, but it is also impossible to insult people that are not present and party to the words. . Never heard anything so ridiculous. Fkn moron. Haha.

[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2624056]Though puta is the Spanish for hooker, it is also a semi-respectable curse to encompass low class males or females, pick pockets, thieves and the like, something like mother fucker (chinga tu madre) in what passes for English in the USA.[/QUOTE]Where I live, they use 'puta' as a random filler word, even when two women are talking. The same way some English speakers use 'fucken' as filler or punctuation. They use 'mierda' the same way, just in random conversation. Example: 'Ayer puta fui al supermercado. Mierda, mucha gente. Pero puta, buenas gangas. ' Yesterday I went to the fucking supermarket. Shit, there were a lot of people. But fuck did I get some good bargains. Like that.

[QUOTE=Paulie97;2624126]Is hilarious, the dork calls comparing his country to it's Nordic neighbors "cheerpicking," then he "cheerypicks" running to countries far away that have little in common with Sweden. In any case, he's never been to Colombia, never will go, and the closest thing he'll ever see to world travel is morphing around ISG as a coward under of host of different user names. This record played out over a year ago. He must be very bored down in momma's basement to come by here trying for a rerun.[/QUOTE]You make some very good points. I can't imagine anyone who would think Sweden is most like various Middle-Eastern countries because they took on some immigrants. I have to wonder if ShooBree is a second account for Elvis or MarquisdeSade1.

[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2624056]It is great to see folk blasting away at each other Though this thread is too rich for mas comment (good point on ploughing a field), we cannot have the language of Cervantes abused.

Though puta is the Spanish for hooker, it is also a semi-respectable curse to encompass low class males or females, pick pockets, thieves and the like, something like mother fucker (chinga tu madre) in what passes for English in the USA.

If anyone with an urge to be fast tracked to a morgue wants some racier Spanish, much more brutal insults are at hand.[/QUOTE]The bottom line is that puta is a derogatory word in Spanish when referencing prostitutes. The neutral word would be "prostituta. " Thus JustTK's hypocrisy with his constant whimpering about other posters treating him with disrespect was exposed. Yet again as it was already exposed with his calling those who disagree with him or ask for source citations "dumb."

The thread is "rich" though I agree, as it's full of keyboard warriors in basements over in Europe who've never been to Colombia and surely never will go. They can't afford the airfare. They exist only in ISG on the free for all threads.

[QUOTE=Villainy;2624042]If you want to see dumb. Look in the nearest mirror. The whole discussion came from a post pointing out all the silliness out of the Elvis school of lunacy. You had a hissy fit when I pointed out that Sweden did much worse with CoVid containment than its neighbors who are the best comparison. OH NO says Shoo Bree. The best comparison is Iraq, Iran, Syria and Somalia because of gang shootings and rape. Seriously? That redefines dumb in a way that even Elvis might not try to defend. You are seriously making me reconsider changing the "Elvis School of Lunacy" to the "ShooBree School of the Retarded". Kind of has a nice ring. Don't you think?[/QUOTE]Yikes, it's easy to see that you're the retard given that your only argument is "mirror, mirror on the wall". You're simply too stupid to understand simple facts & stats, not to mention your inability to draw any reasonable conclusions.

You probably should work on your reading comprehension because you haven't understood a god damn thing.

[QUOTE=Villainy;2624220]You make some very good points. I can't imagine anyone who would think Sweden is most like various Middle-Eastern countries because they took on some immigrants. I have to wonder if ShooBree is a second account for Elvis or MarquisdeSade1.[/QUOTE]Shoobree operates under a number of different user names as his posts kept getting removed. Then he found the free for all threads in the country specific forums that he's never been to, nor will he ever go to. Others have tried to use immigration as an excuse for Sweden's dismal Covid performance when compared to their neighbors, but the same also have high rates of immigration from Africa and the Middle East. In fact Norway has a higher percentage of immigrants, 16.8 percent to Sweden's 14.

He also was for a long time pretending to be an American in the American politics forums, of course pushing racism and MAGAism. Yet another Magat without the dinero for a plane ticket, thus they has nothing relevant to contribute to the discussions here. Wink.

[QUOTE=Paulie97;2624307]The bottom line is that puta is a derogatory word in Spanish when referencing prostitutes. The neutral word would be "prostituta. " Thus JustTK's hypocrisy with his constant whimpering about other posters treating him with disrespect was exposed. Yet again as it was already exposed with his calling those who disagree with him or ask for source citations "dumb."

The thread is "rich" though I agree, as it's full of keyboard warriors in basements over in Europe who've never been to Colombia and surely never will go. They can't afford the airfare. They exist only in ISG on the free for all threads.[/QUOTE]Are you for real? This thread is hilarious. I have no intention of ever going to Colombia though, like most civilized people, I love the writing of Gabriel García Márquez, who would never use such a dumb ass word to describe a puta.

Unless he was speaking Latin.

As regards not being able to afford the airfare, here is a flight for less than 500 $. [URL]https://www.gotogate.co.uk/rf/result?selectionKey=TP1015-12Jan22-T_TP209-12Jan22-T_CM803-13Jan22-A_CM494-13Jan22-A_NK3103-26Jan22-Y_NK3119-26Jan22-Y_TP204-26Jan22-T_TP1016-27Jan22-T%2C1ynruh9%2C%3A%3Ag_0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0%3Ah_0.0.0.0.1.1.1.1%3Aa_OV.SC.ES.UM.K0.UE.13G.OV%3Ab_C%3Ac_R%3Ad_69140%3Ae_7b66%3Af_5%3Ai_1.0.0%3Aj_E0%3Az_1ni6f9[/URL].

Most parts of Western Europe have higher median wages than the USA ie Big Mac land. Plus, Europeans actually get holidays.

By all means, insult away so we can laugh at you but don't insult your European betters. Few Europeans live in basements BTW [URL]https://www.quora.com/Do-houses-in-Europe-have-basements[/URL].

Nut as you probably can't afford the fare to the civilized world from your NYNY / Chicago slum, you probably don't know that.

[QUOTE=JustTK;2624044]Yes you are being disrespectful again. I guess that's just the way many USAns are. They can't help themselves in their "exceptionalism". You wrote "And as a side note, you did notice MrE's discovery that:. " So clearly you were writing to me as your response was to my comment. So calling me ignorant for your incorrect / inaccurate comment just shows what a FKN MORON you are. And yes that whole discussion was about the rights of immigration officials to seach cellphones, so it was everything to do w immigration you FKN MORON.

I am really tired of chatting w you you FKN MORON. So don't expact any more replies from me you FKN MORON.[/QUOTE]Once again, being disrespectful by accusing all US citizens of a trait exhibited by one (with provocation). If you're going to constantly paste your hypocrisy across the board, you should expect it's going to be noticed.

Here's the post of mine you're referring to. It was a reply to VasyaPetya. His post was directed to you. My post only referred to you in the opening line.

[QUOTE=JjBee62;2623245]Plus, he's not very good at it, a feeling I'm sure you're familiar with.

Here's a pro-tip:

If you want to discuss a subject, any subject, discuss it. If you're not interested in hearing anything anyone else has to say on the subject, don't discuss it.

It's like your religious beliefs. If you just want a bunch of people to tell you how wonderful they are, go chat with the people at your favorite religious institution. If you want to insist your beliefs are the only ones, go fuck yourself with a rusty cattle prod. There's a third option, but people with strongly held religious beliefs are seldom interested in hearing questions which contradict their dogma. I've noticed it's the same with anti-vaxxers and people who insist on rights which they don't have..[/QUOTE]It seems silly to need to explain simple pronouns to someone, but you obviously don't understand the usage.

"Plus, he's not very good at it, a feeling I'm sure you're familiar with."

In this sentence, "he" refers to you, since I'm responding to someone who responded to you. "You're" refers to VasyaPetya, the person I'm responding to. Because it seems likely you'll fuck this part up too, "I" refers to me.

He = JustTK.

You = VasyaPetya.

I = Jjbee62.

Got that bit cleared up now have we?

If we skip through the middle of the post, which is general advice which applies to everyone, we get to the part where you failed to understand something quite simple.

"And as a side note, you (VasyaPetya) did notice MrE's discovery that:

A. You (VasyaPetya) are subject to have your phone searched in Colombia.

Be. If you (VasyaPetya) refuse they can detain you (VasyaPetya) while the police break into your (VasyaPetya's) phone and search it.

I believe you (VasyaPetya) stated otherwise? As I said, you're (VasyaPetya is) probably familiar with not being good at all this discussion stuff."

Clear as can fucking be you incestuous, festering twat.

Now to top it with a bit of chutney.

"Immigration Rights" refers to the rights of immigrants. Immigration is the process through which immigrants emigrate to a different country. Each country has established rights which apply to immigrants and the process of immigration.

The discussion about searching phones never once mentioned immigration and at this point it seems more likely such searches are conducted by airport security personnel, rather than immigration or customs.

If you're trying to say "fucking moron" just type it out. It's allowed. None of us are 10 years old and mother won't punish you if you say, or type "fucking."

Any questions? From the very beginning, you've been fucking yourself in the ass with your logical fallacies, hypocrisy, misrepresentations and outright lies. Then you accuse everyone else of touching your butt, when they point out the obvious.

[QUOTE=JustTK;2624148]Thk you for posting some sense. Quite rare in this section. Not only is puta not an insult, but it is also impossible to insult people that are not present and party to the words. . Never heard anything so ridiculous. Fkn moron. Haha.[/QUOTE]You left out the disrespectful part, dumbfuck. Or are you once again practicing your hypocrisy?

There is an entire category of words which are considered disrespectful and insulting, whether or not they are directed at an individual.

Let's try a couple you're probably familiar with: Coon and Dago. There are thousands of others but these will suffice.

If you were to say something like "all these coons are ruining this place", or "A couple of Dagos were here yesterday" it's insulting, whether they specified groups are present. And you know it's insulting. If you're walking around El Centro you don't start yelling "puta" at every girl.

However, as is common with racists, bigots and misogynists, you feel it's perfectly acceptable if no woman is around to hear it.

Normally, I wouldn't mention it, except of your constant bullshit whining about people being disrespectful and insulting.

[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2624482].......Most parts of Western Europe have higher median wages than the USA ie Big Mac land. Plus, Europeans actually get holidays.

By all means, insult away so we can laugh at you but don't insult your European betters. Few Europeans live in basements BTW [URL]https://www.quora.com/Do-houses-in-Europe-have-basements[/URL].

Nut as you probably can't afford the fare to the civilized world from your NYNY / Chicago slum, you probably don't know that.[/QUOTE]WoW are you in need of a remedial history lesson. Those higher paying jobs that you are crowing about are largely with American companies. And the only reason you have the right to blow your hot air this direction is because the US pulled your sorry, lazy, ineffectual asses out of two World Wars. But for that you would be clicking your heels and spraying your spit when you talk. OH yes and you have the luxury to share your obnoxious, uneducated opinions with us is because we created the internet to allow it. So you can keep writing your Euro-crap. Maybe ShooBree will agree with you.

[QUOTE=Huacho;2624168]Where I live, they use 'puta' as a random filler word, even when two women are talking. The same way some English speakers use 'fucken' as filler or punctuation. They use 'mierda' the same way, just in random conversation. Example: 'Ayer puta fui al supermercado. Mierda, mucha gente. Pero puta, buenas gangas. ' Yesterday I went to the fucking supermarket. Shit, there were a lot of people. But fuck did I get some good bargains. Like that.[/QUOTE]Okay. Let's make it simple. Where you live, walk up to any woman you don't know and say "eres puta. " A statement, not a question. What type of reaction would you expect? Better yet, try it in front of her husband or father. Is everyone laughing and having a good time?

The girls in Medellin say "hijaputa" all the time. Among friends it's acceptable. Using it with strangers is not a good idea.

[QUOTE=Villainy;2624511]WoW are you in need of a remedial history lesson. Those higher paying jobs that you are crowing about are largely with American companies. And the only reason you have the right to blow your hot air this direction is because the US pulled your sorry, lazy, ineffectual asses out of two World Wars. But for that you would be clicking your heels and spraying your spit when you talk. OH yes and you have the luxury to share your obnoxious, uneducated opinions with us is because we created the internet to allow it. So you can keep writing your Euro-crap. Maybe ShooBree will agree with you.[/QUOTE]Yep we have a bunch of whining, whimpering, ungrateful and envious Euros amongst us, all sources of both nausea and amusement. Not to mention that there's no shortage of broke dumbasses over there, as is seen in this hooker forum day after day. Keep dreaming of Colombia guys. Wink.

[QUOTE=Villainy;2624220]You make some very good points. I can't imagine anyone who would think Sweden is most like various Middle-Eastern countries because they took on some immigrants. I have to wonder if ShooBree is a second account for Elvis or MarquisdeSade1.[/QUOTE]You have already disqualified yourself from any serious discussion by claiming Sweden to be "genetically homogeneous" and acting as if all the Nordic countries are exactly the same.

No matter what childish insults you throw at me the fact remains that, unlike you, I have actually managed to back up my statements with facts and statistics.

You have yet to explain how lockdowns can be so great while at the same time Peru has twice the number of deaths per capita compared to Brazil and Colombia.

You also have to explain how the number of deaths per capita can be less or roughly the same in Sweden as it is in other Western European countries such as France, the UK, Belgium, Spain, Italy, Belgium, Austria, Luxembourg, Portugal and Switzerland.

[QUOTE=Villainy;2624511]WoW are you in need of a remedial history lesson. Those higher paying jobs that you are crowing about are largely with American companies. And the only reason you have the right to blow your hot air this direction is because the US pulled your sorry, lazy, ineffectual asses out of two World Wars. But for that you would be clicking your heels and spraying your spit when you talk. OH yes and you have the luxury to share your obnoxious, uneducated opinions with us is because we created the internet to allow it. So you can keep writing your Euro-crap. Maybe ShooBree will agree with you.[/QUOTE]Haha, oh god you really are stuck in the past!

Its embarrassing to see the moronic shit you write, Europeans are working for European companies. The high paying jobs are with European companies. I don't know anyone who works for an American company. It always amuses me to visit Japan and hear what they think of the Americans they have had the displeasure of dealing with.

And lets face it, there are not many USAns working in Silicon Valley. You Americans are too stupid and uneducated to do the work properly so the companies have to hire Asians and Europeans.

And how about the American car industry, its shit. Its the worst shit I've ever seen, and I've seen French cars. Don't even get me started on Air Boeing. USA is dependend on tariffs because no one outside the US wants to buy their shit. Why? Because you are incompetent, you should have realized that a long time ago but you didn't as you USAns suffers from the Dunning Kruger-effect.

USA is about to go belly upp, just look at the debt and trade deficit.

The problem with you isn't only your lack of education, its the combination of how uneducated and arrogant you are.

USAns are a bit like King Midas but whatever you touch turns to shit. If you want to make something into an overprised tourist trap just send in the USAns! Because you have no clue about anything. You tip when no one else will tip and you overpay because you're ignorant&arrogant.

Its 2021, and you are still stuck in the 70's.

[QUOTE=JjBee62;2624505]Once again, being disrespectful by accusing all US citizens of a trait exhibited by one (with provocation). If you're going to constantly paste your hypocrisy across the board, you should expect it's going to be noticed.[/QUOTE]I wrote "many USAns", not "all", you fkn moron.

[QUOTE=Villainy;2624511]because the US pulled your sorry, lazy, ineffectual asses out of two World Wars..[/QUOTE]In the Second World War the USA was too cowardly to enter until it was half way over and until the Europeans (mostly Russians and Brits, but also plenty of rebels from defeated countries) had blunted Hitler. The prospect of genocide against the Jews was not enough of a provocation to enter the war for the USA. Oh no, no. They had to wait for a selfish reason to enter. The Japanese sank a few of the ships in Pearl Harbour. Ah diddums.

How cowardly to claim victory when you only turn up after the fighting is done. It reminds me of the Galdiator movie when Commodus turns up in Germania to claim the glory just as Maximus has finished the barbarians off. You guys and your warped versions of history make me laugh.

[QUOTE=ShooBree;2624581]You have yet to explain how lockdowns can be so great while at the same time Peru has twice the number of deaths per capita compared to Brazil and Colombia.
You also have to explain how the number of deaths per capita can be less or roughly the same in Sweden as it is in other Western European countries such as France, the UK, Belgium, Spain, Italy, Belgium, Austria, Luxembourg, Portugal and Switzerland.[/QUOTE]Aks them to explain the stats in South Korea. No lockdown. Lockdowns were clearly not necessary. They were a tool that was used with highly variable results. Results that indicate that there were more important factors at play.

[QUOTE=ShooBree;2624444]Yikes, it's easy to see that you're the retard given that your only argument is "mirror, mirror on the wall". You're simply too stupid to understand simple facts & stats, not to mention your inability to draw any reasonable conclusions.

You probably should work on your reading comprehension because you haven't understood a god damn thing.[/QUOTE]Oh, he gets it, Shoobree. While Viliany is not trying to get laid solving calculus problems (one of these days it will work for sure), you have to understand that he and all the rest of these Democratic douches are not trying to be logical but working on their douche scores. The only way these guys can be so irrational is that they are getting paid for it and with these douches, the feeling not the reality but the feeling is that if they are good douches with high scores the government gravy train will not stop for them.

So how do you be a good douche? You just point and hate.

Trump: evil. Trump voters: more evil. And then you go down the list: Putin, Joe Rogin, Aaron Rogers, Dennis Prager, Sweden, those not vaccinated, and lately parents AKA domestic terrorists in Virginia (that one did not work out so well).

The douches are in foul mood because of Virginia, and they know what is coming.

You are a bad douche if you criticize Fauci because he is on your team. He did not fund development of the virus because he says so, and you cannot criticize China for making and screwing up and releasing the virus. No, that is racist, but Sweden is mostly white so they are fair douche game.

You will never beat a douche. They will never admit they are wrong. What they will do is go silent. They will debate censoring Trump on Twitter but when you tell them that their stupid censoring led to Trump starting his own media company which put $4 billion in his pocket they will be silent. That is really a foreshadow of things to come.

They demonize those who do not get vaccinated as selfish because they are spreading Covid (even though getting the vax does not prevent transmission), but when one of their own is symptomatic and spreads the virus over 2 continents, it is crickets. You cannot criticize your fellow douche. It hurts your score.

The douches wanted to destroy the world economy so Trump would not get re-elected. Mission accomplished, but they thought they could just turn it back on, and it does not work that way. I think the funniest issue is on oil. Do you get what a great unifier Joe Biden is? The prices on oil and gas have skyrocketed, and there is a ton, I mean a ton, of spare capacity in the system. You have a very diverse set of producers in OPEC, in Russia, and the American oil companies. Inevitably, one country or group would increase capacity to get at the spare cash and drive the price down. Because of Joe Biden, no one is cheating, and prices are up and staying there. The American rig count is half of what it was when oil was this high before.

So Sweden's greatest sin was not participating in the destruction of the world economy to get rid of Trump. Everyone else was willing to do it. The reason that Sweden did not is this was not up to the pols. It was the only country that had a health care professional in charge, and he had the audacity to look at lockdowns and say they have not been proven to work with Covid. Do no harm again.

And my hat is off to the Colombian people who also did not allow their government to destroy their economy by fighting lockdowns.

The douches are going to have to pull out all the stops in 2022 and 2024 and it is not going to work. For people who so hate Trump, no one can match him financially now. His being president in 2024 now is virtually his choice. And this time, Trump will have his personnel (and not Bush's personnel) to drain the swamp, and all these douches will be deprived of their precious swamp water and only then will these douches perish. It is not going to be reason or logic that does them in but their own stupid douche plans for domination.

[QUOTE=Villainy;2624511]WoW are you in need of a remedial history lesson. Those higher paying jobs that you are crowing about are largely with American companies. And the only reason you have the right to blow your hot air this direction is because the US pulled your sorry, lazy, ineffectual asses out of two World Wars. But for that you would be clicking your heels and spraying your spit when you talk. OH yes and you have the luxury to share your obnoxious, uneducated opinions with us is because we created the internet to allow it. So you can keep writing your Euro-crap. Maybe ShooBree will agree with you.[/QUOTE]You have watched too many Audie Murphy movies. Have you seen Colditz where US prisoners escape? In reality, none escaped. And Americans did no serious fighting in Europe. Bar the Ardennes where they were surrender monkeys and shot prisoners out of hand.

90% of German casualties were on the Eastern Front. The Yanks came in late, robbing and raping all round them. They even make movies boasting about their thieves.

Now off you go and polish up your brasses on the USS Harvey Milk.

This Brit invented the Internet. [URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Berners-Lee[/URL] Americans do not invent. They just rob (from German physicists after WW2) and rape. Away and eat your Big Mac and Coke.

[QUOTE=JustTK;2624596]Aks them to explain the stats in South Korea. No lockdown. Lockdowns were clearly not necessary. They were a tool that was used with highly variable results. Results that indicate that there were more important factors at play.[/QUOTE]Too stupid. He thinks these 50 (non Brit) European companies are American. [URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EURO_STOXX_50[/URL].

Even European heroes are better.

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2621400]The type of rationale during this thing has been inconceivable to me. If you are vaxed then it is okay for you to come in and spead the disease around. If you are unvaxed, don't you dare come in here and spread the disease that you don't have around. So it is better for a vaxed person that is infected to come in than an unvaxed person that is not infected? If you are vaxed with the disease then we are happy to continue being your employer. If you are unvaxed without the disease then turn in your ID. What logically should matter is if the person is infected, regardless of their vaccination status.

The world has gone crazy. Nobody ever came and made sure I was wearing a condom so I would not get AIDS, never came to make sure I was wrapped up so I did not catch pneumonia, never came to make sure my seat belt was on so I did not die in an accident, never made sure my shoes were tied so I did not trip and fall. But now everyone is dead set on making sure I am vaxed so I don't get Covid to the point that I can not work or enter certain establishments without being so. This type of thinking must be well beyond my paygrade or from another world.[/QUOTE][URL]https://amgreatness.com/2021/11/08/reality-dysphoria/[/URL]

[QUOTE=JustTK;2624596]Aks them to explain the stats in South Korea. No lockdown. Lockdowns were clearly not necessary. They were a tool that was used with highly variable results. Results that indicate that there were more important factors at play.[/QUOTE]No government tells the truth about Covid. Statistics are meaningless. For example: Japan has like 225 cases today and No lockdown. DO you actually believe it? Statistics can be manipulated in a thousand ways.

[QUOTE=ShooBree;2624581]You have yet to explain how lockdowns can be so great while at the same time Peru has twice the number of deaths per capita compared to Brazil and Colombia.[/QUOTE]In reality, it is because Peru had a different strain of the virus. Their living conditions (remarkably stable climate, sea level altitude, and crowded living conditions in Lima) made it ideal for the virus to spread. See the link: [URL]https://www.contagionlive.com/view/the-transmissible-lambda-variant-is-dominant-strain-in-peru[/URL].

If you are going to make a side by side comparison, you have to know which variants there are, how cases are reported, how the diagnosis is made, and how one determines if Covid was the cause of death or just along for the ride, and no one cared if that data was accurate. In Italy, of all the death attributed to Covid, only about 3% did not have comorbid risk factors. I have seen dozens of people with low oxygen and in respiratory distress, some in their 20's. On the other, I have seen exactly one person declared dead with Covid, a 93 year old with leukemia, a dubious claim to be sure.

On top of that, you have to account for other decisions. Sweden's early high death rate was much like New York's in that the vulnerable elderly were not isolated from those contaminated with Covid. That decision about the elderly is not factored into with Sweden by the media. No, the death rate was higher because they did not lock down.

[QUOTE=JustTK;2621368]I saw a few days ago reports of a study published in Bloomberg, Fortune, BBC, Guardian (look them up on search "vaccinated just as likely to spread virus as unvaccinated" that verify that the vaxd are just as transmissable WRT the virus as the unvaxd. So the vaxd and the unvaxd are equally as likely to pass the virus on to any vulnerable / imuno-compromised person.

So now it is really indisputable that the unvaxd are only an increased danger to themselves. So there is no more excuse for the persecution of the unvaxd to continue.[/QUOTE]Hi JustTK,

Apologies for not responding to you earlier, I have been very busy at work. I am also an ultra runner, so there are always days where I just run, eat, and sleep, and don't do anything else.

I did not know that your objection to the vaccine was primarily because of ethical reasons. I fully agree that lots of unsavory things happen at pharma, but it stands to reason how much blame can be put on them in this instance, since testing was required by law. Here is PETA's take on this:

"The goal of being vegan and advocating for animal rights should always be to bring about positive change for animals. As long as tests on animals are a legal requirement, refusing to take a medicine on ethical grounds will not help animals who have already been used in tests or spare any the same fate in the future. ".

[URL]https://www.peta.org.uk/blog/vegans-covid-19-vaccine/[/URL]

So while there are differing opinions, I think no reasonable person would / should give you too much grief if you cite plausible ethical concerns for not getting vaccinated. Taking this into account, I would still argue you should get vaccinated in part because prolonging the pandemic invariably will result in more animal experiments being carried out, which is completely counter to what you want to achieve. Perfect can be the enemy of good.

That said, in many of your posts it seems you are grasping for straws, trying to come up with additional explanations why people shouldn't get vaccinated (and I suspect this is because you want this to be true). Unfortunately, this is where the wheels are coming off in your reasoning, as several people have pointed out. Your post on "vaccinated just as likely to spread virus as unvaccinated" is another example in my opinion, as it seems to escape you what conditional probabilities are. What is the chance a person from Utah you see is a Mormon? What is the chance a person from Utah you see is a Mormon, given he is lying drunk in the gutter? Totally different. The same thing in the paper you cite, which reports on transmissions in a household *given the vaccinated person had a breakthrough infection. It is not very surprising if you spend an extended period of time with an infectious person that you don't see a big difference in rates of transmissions comparing breakthrough and natural infections (even though by all accounts people with natural infections are infectious for a longer time). If you had read the manuscript, you probably would have noticed this sentence in the abstract:

"Vaccination reduces the risk of delta variant infection and accelerates viral clearance. Nonetheless, fully vaccinated individuals with breakthrough infections have peak viral load similar to unvaccinated cases and can efficiently transmit infection in household settings, including to fully vaccinated contacts."

Reducing this to "vaccinated just as likely to spread virus as unvaccinated" is absurd. I am going back to my first response to you: it is not helpful to "amplify stuff you read somewhere without understanding the meaning of it. Be better. And dare to think for yourself. " I fully respect your ethical concerns, but I don't think you are doing yourself a favor peddling some nonsensical soundbites.

[QUOTE=JustTK;2624595]In the Second World War the USA was too cowardly to enter until it was half way over ...[/QUOTE]Just one simple question JustTK, how do you determine when a war is half way over while it is in progress?

[QUOTE=JjBee62;2623875]Pound for pound a vegan diet results in just as much animal death as an omnivorous diet.

Veganism causes just as much suffering as raising animals for meat. [/QUOTE]Hi JjBee62,

I started reading some of the posts on this board a few weeks ago, and you always struck me as a very level-headed guy. This post however was a bit of a head scratcher.

I am not a vegan, but I fully recognize how much damage to the planet and animal suffering is caused by the meat industry. With all due respect, your rationale and bean examples seem a bit underwhelming in light of the fact that less than 10% of all soy is used for human food products such as tofu and soy milk, and a large number of studies suggest that global land use could drop tremendously if everybody went vegan (for example [URL]https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.aaq0216[/URL]). I recognize that I might be missing something, and I'd certainly be open to change my mind if you can corroborate your statements. I also recognize that this board is not about diet choices, but then, I didn't start it.

Ethical concerns aside, I disagree with most of JustTK's statements about vaccination, but that doesn't mean I have to disagree with him if he says the sky is blue.

[QUOTE=JustTK;2624595]How cowardly to claim victory when you only turn up after the fighting is done.[/QUOTE]Clearly the only coward here is you, spending hours each day taking pot shots at Americans on a long established American owned website, and from the safety of your computer hiding out in Europe somewhere. The greatest contribution of the US in World War II involved production of war materials, producing more airplanes than all of the other major powers combined. And Stalin was propped up by our supplies, including 400,000 trucks and billions of dollars worth of airplanes. And such supply routes to the east were created by our fighting efforts in the Mediterranean, especially Africa and Italy along with the British. We were also instrumental in the liberation of France, the defeat of the Japanese in the South Pacific, and for bringing about a sure end with the invention of the atom bomb. To say we only showed up when it was over is asinine to the point where it could only come from a little vegan boy trolling day in and day out in a hooker forum, whining about how everyone is picking on him.

A lot of Euros love to run their mouths, until they need us, and they inevitably do. The two World Wars are just two of many examples, and of many more to come.

Happy Veterans Day everyone.

What a polite post. A better analogy might have been a vaccinated Mormon who hangs around with high risk folk. Most Westerners seem to be now vaccinated (sic) with one or other of the approved shots. Austria is insisting on 3 shots (to save their ski industry) and Israel is just a land of Guinea pigs anyway.

Americans and those they influence just want a comfort blanket. Take the clot shot and you will be fine until the next shot.

I got Covid and have a travel cert valid for three more months. I practice social distancing though some avoid / are wary of me lest I Typhoid Mary them.

I have hepatitis shots but I do not have flue shots as the latter is a virus that has been with us for centuries but largely vanished last year because of social distancing. Big Pharma rushed out their clot shots. They have a history of lying and price gouging. East Asians have the social discipline for social distancing and lockdowns. Americans and Brits do not. They prefer anarchy and comfort blankets.

[QUOTE=Ptrbrgr;2624650]Hi JustTK,
Your post on "vaccinated just as likely to spread virus as unvaccinated" is another example in my opinion, as it seems to escape you what conditional probabilities are. What is the chance a person from Utah you see is a Mormon? What is the chance a person from Utah you see is a Mormon, given he is lying drunk in the gutter? Totally different. .[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=JustTK;2624595]In the Second World War the USA was too cowardly to enter until it was half way over and until the Europeans (mostly Russians and Brits, but also plenty of rebels from defeated countries) had blunted Hitler. The prospect of genocide against the Jews was not enough of a provocation to enter the war for the USA. Oh no, no. They had to wait for a selfish reason to enter. The Japanese sank a few of the ships in Pearl Harbour. Ah diddums.

How cowardly to claim victory when you only turn up after the fighting is done. It reminds me of the Galdiator movie when Commodus turns up in Germania to claim the glory just as Maximus has finished the barbarians off. You guys and your warped versions of history make me laugh.[/QUOTE]How quaint. So you have rewritten history to diminish the role the US played. How sweet. I'm sure you are ignorant that even before the US was actively fighting the war in Europe. They sent vast amounts of supplies via convoys to both Great Britain and to Russia. The US supply ships probably saved Great Britain from having to raise the white flag. But of course, not knowing anything about WWII I'm sure you were unaware.

The genocide of the Jews was not well know until the camps were overrun at the end of the war.

It's OK. I understand you recreate whatever doesn't fit your own preconceived notions. This is evidenced by your complete ignorance of history and your laughable understanding of the efficacy of the vaccine against the CoVid virus. It must be nice to live in your little hovel of ignorance.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2624598]Oh, he gets it, Shoobree. While Viliany is not trying to get laid solving calculus problems (one of these days it will work for sure), you have to understand that he and all the rest of these Democratic douches are not trying to be logical but working on their douche scores. The only way these guys can be so irrational is that they are getting paid for it and with these douches, the feeling not the reality but the feeling is that if they are good douches with high scores the government gravy train will not stop for them.

So how do you be a good douche? You just point and hate.

Trump: evil. Trump voters: more evil. And then you go down the list: Putin, Joe Rogin, Aaron Rogers, Dennis Prager, Sweden, those not vaccinated, and lately parents AKA domestic terrorists in Virginia (that one did not work out so well)..[/QUOTE]Douche, douche, douche, douche, douche, douche, douche, douche, douche, douche.

That's the only thing you ever say.

Douche, douche, douche, douche, douche, douche, douche, douche, douche, douche, douche, douche, douche, douche, douche, douche, douche, douche, douche, douche, douche, douche, douche, douche, douche, douche, douche, douche, douche, douche, douche, douche, douche, douche, douche, douche, douche, douche, douche, douche, douche, douche, douche, douche, douche, douche, douche, douche, douche, douche, douche, douche, douche, douche, douche, douche, douche, douche, douche, douche, douche, douche, douche, douche, douche, douche, douche, douche, douche, douche, douche, douche, douche, douche, douche, douche, douche, douche, douche, douche, douche, douche, douche, douche, douche, douche, douche, douche, douche, douche.

Everyone I know stopped using the word in the 6th grade when we found out where douches go. One day you'll know too.

[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2624599]You have watched too many Audie Murphy movies. Have you seen Colditz where US prisoners escape? In reality, none escaped. And Americans did no serious fighting in Europe. Bar the Ardennes where they were surrender monkeys and shot prisoners out of hand.

90% of German casualties were on the Eastern Front. The Yanks came in late, robbing and raping all round them. They even make movies boasting about their thieves.

Now off you go and polish up your brasses on the USS Harvey Milk.

This Brit invented the Internet. [URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Berners-Lee[/URL] Americans do not invent. They just rob (from German physicists after WW2) and rape. Away and eat your Big Mac and Coke.[/QUOTE]Every thing you said is either mistaken or a lie. You tell me which?

90% of the casualties weren't at the Eastern Front but it certainly was the highest percentage. Mostly because a complete German army was abandoned and not permitted to retreat during the battle of Stalingrad.

[URL]https://www.britannica.com/event/Battle-of-Stalingrad[/URL]

If it had not been for the American supplies and equipment sent to Great Britain and Russia you wouldn't be able to manufacture your version of history.

Oh and BTW you are full of shit about who invented the internet as well.

[URL]https://www.history.com/news/who-invented-the-internet[/URL]

The scientist you reference above, came along later and developed the WWW methodology. BTW he was working at MIT (for ignorant like you that is the abbreviation of Massachusetts Institute of Technology) when these new protocols were developed.

Here is a direct quote:

"While it's often confused with the internet itself, the web is actually just the most common means of accessing data online in the form of websites and hyperlinks."

[QUOTE=Paulie97;2624687]Clearly the only coward here is you, spending hours each day taking pot shots at Americans on a long established American owned website, and from the safety of your computer hiding out in Europe somewhere. The greatest contribution of the US in World War II involved production of war materials, producing more airplanes than all of the other major powers combined. And Stalin was propped up by our supplies, including 400,000 trucks and billions of dollars worth of airplanes. And such supply routes to the east were created by our fighting efforts in the Mediterranean, especially Africa and Italy along with the British. We were also instrumental in the liberation of France, the defeat of the Japanese in the South Pacific, and for bringing about a sure end with the invention of the atom bomb. To say we only showed up when it was over is asinine to the point where it could only come from a little vegan boy trolling day in and day out in a hooker forum, whining about how everyone is picking on him.

A lot of Euros love to run their mouths, until they need us, and they inevitably do. The two World Wars are just two of many examples, and of many more to come.[/QUOTE]You are absolutely clueless, you're a brain dead moron hiding in a basement in a USA in crisis. No one is hiding, except from you. You must be seriously demented going on and on with insults making no sense whatsoever. Please explain in what way he is hiding and from who? We all know that you're hiding in your mothers basement because you are afraid of Covid-19, but you need to substantiate your claim that he is hiding.

The truth is simple USA needs Europe more than Europe needs them.

I'm still waiting for the USA to pay the EU the money they owe us for creating the chaos in the Middle East which caused millions of refugees to head for the EU.

And lets be real, the libtarded USAns on this site had nothing to do with the WW2 so pipe down. You should focus on your opioid and debt epidemic. Or failed aircraft company. Or why no one wants to import your shitty American cars.

Can some one please explain what the NL after internationalsexguide stands for? I've heard that it stands for the Netherlands, which is a European country. So I guess Europe saved USA again.

[QUOTE=Villainy;2624863]How quaint. So you have rewritten history to diminish the role the US played. How sweet. I'm sure you are ignorant that even before the US was actively fighting the war in Europe. They sent vast amounts of supplies via convoys to both Great Britain and to Russia. The US supply ships probably saved Great Britain from having to raise the white flag. But of course, not knowing anything about WWII I'm sure you were unaware.

The genocide of the Jews was not well know until the camps were overrun at the end of the war.

It's OK. I understand you recreate whatever doesn't fit your own preconceived notions. This is evidenced by your complete ignorance of history and your laughable understanding of the efficacy of the vaccine against the CoVid virus. It must be nice to live in your little hovel of ignorance.[/QUOTE]Actually it's thanks to Russia that Germany lost the war. But congrats on dropping the A-bomb on Japan after they had basically already surrendered. Really impressive. Not.

BTW, good work in Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan.

The Yanks were "over paid, over sexed and over here". Everyone hated them, the Tommies who did the heavy fighting and the Ossies who beat them up in Sydney and Brisbane for sucking off their donkeys. The coward McArthur even tried to claim Australian victories as American, the PNG battle of the Kokoda Trail, the first land defeat of the Japanese, being a case in point.

The Americans used to loot the teeth of dead Japanese soldiers, real gutter scum. McArthur, surrender monkey in the Philippines where the Yanks continued to rape the children until their bases were closed.

The USA bankrupted the Brits, stole all their reserves and military secrets, raped their women and then set up Bretton Woods etc to rob and rape the world.

Stalingrad was 2nd rate soldiers; the cream had already perished by then. Kursk was but one of much bigger defeats.

Germany and the Axis lost 5.5 million soldiers dead, with some 4.5 million more captured on the Eastern Front.

As the American surrender monkeys lost a trifling 400,000, many of them non Americans and the Wehrmacht were great in defence, it is an insult to claim these American rapists were decisive.

As regards the Web, no one doubts the Americans are good at snooping (Peeping Tom pervs). American "dominance" in World War Two and after it was due to German physicists and rocket scientists, many of whom had served Hitler. Americans are good at thieving and eating hamburgers and little else. No one doubts that.

Go get a language of your own.

MIT (for ignorant like you that is the abbreviation of Massachusetts Institute of Technology).

An ignorant like me? LOL.

[QUOTE=Villainy;2624898]Every thing you said is either mistaken or a lie. You tell me which?

90% of the casualties weren't at the Eastern Front but it certainly was the highest percentage. Mostly because a complete German army was abandoned and not permitted to retreat during the battle of Stalingrad.

[URL]https://www.britannica.com/event/Battle-of-Stalingrad[/URL]

If it had not been for the American supplies and equipment sent to Great Britain and Russia you wouldn't be able to manufacture your version of history.

Oh and BTW you are full of shit about who invented the internet as well.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=ShooBree;2624931]Actually it's thanks to Russia that Germany lost the war. But congrats on dropping the A-bomb on Japan after they had basically already surrendered. Really impressive. Not.

BTW, good work in Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan.[/QUOTE]You know less of history than you do about CoVid. I wonder if anyone here is surprised by that?

Russia did well against Germany largely because the US provided massive support when they needed it most. But you have to give a major assist to Hitler who made a myriad of bone-head mistakes that cost dearly.

You also failed to mention or recognize that after the war the US sent billions of dollars in aid to rebuild the war torn countries of Europe. When in the history of the world has a victorious nation helped rebuild the countries that were allies as well as those that were conquered?? I think the world you'll search for is "never".

[QUOTE=KyoHiromitsu;2624629]No government tells the truth about Covid. Statistics are meaningless. For example: Japan has like 225 cases today and No lockdown. DO you actually believe it? Statistics can be manipulated in a thousand ways.[/QUOTE]Yes, correct. And some govts are worse than others, whether they do it deliberatly or not. But excess death stats are much harder to manipulate bcos death stats are generally not tightly controlled by central government. I wrote 1 week ago:

"South Korea. Has had 2. 700 excees deaths out of a population of 51 million, whiich is 53 deaths per million. ".

Even if one claimed the Korean govt was hiding deaths, it would need to be hiding deaths at a rate of 30 dead for every 1 declared. To be even average in terms of death per capita. I dunno about you, but I find that somewhat hard to believe.

[QUOTE=FunLuvr;2624663]Just one simple question JustTK, how do you determine when a war is half way over while it is in progress?[/QUOTE]You can't know. But that was not my claim. The USA refused to involve itself in a war to save the world ffom Jewish genocide and the rule of facism. It only felt compelled to join when a tinpot army decide to bomb a few of its ships in a harbour.

Do something against the USA. And you are going to pay! Commit genocide and try to instigate worldwide facism. Oh, no problem, just go ahead and don't worry about us!

[QUOTE=ShooBree;2624931]But congrats on dropping the A-bomb on Japan after they had basically already surrendered.
BTW, good work in Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan.[/QUOTE]Enola Gay. The ultimate despicable act of cowardice of the 20th century. Seems they had no faith in their soldiers to win a war if they had to fight man to man, so instead they dropped the most lethal weapon ever designed (by UK, BTW) on helpless citizens. Bcos they are Asian and worth less than USAn lives. And I guess they were correct bcos they have lost many wars against 3rd world countries since then.

I only entered this thread because I thought it was funny and some American hamburger chomper was insulting the Spanish language from a position of ignorance. I guess I should apologize for arguing with a fool, one who thinks putas are addressed as Señora Prostituta. Perhaps that is what they do in the Hamptons when they are playing at The Great Gatsby. The civilised world, those with words in their veins, speak more earthily.

The thread has been useful in showing Americans who can see they are not universally loved. Was Marilyn Monroe the only American woman whose accent did not grate? What is it with Americans and their loud, atonal voices? Who knows or cares really. Best avoided.

Salud!

[QUOTE=JustTK;2624044]Yes you are being disrespectful again. I guess that's just the way many USAns are. They can't help themselves in their "exceptionalism".[/QUOTE]You will probably like this clip, JustTK.

[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2HKbygLjJs[/URL]

"We didn't identify ourselves by who we voted for and we do not scare so easily. " That probably encompasses 90% of what we did wrong with Covid.

We have a section here on American women and how bad they are and then we have this section where American men travel to Colombia to get their sexual needs met and you have to hear about how exceptional we are. I can understand why you think we are crazy even if others do not.

You might be confused by the freedom line so let me explain. Freedom does not refer to doing drugs, gambling, or paying women for sex. We Americans have to go to Colombia for those freedoms.

However, I was in Singapore when an American there was caned for spray painting cars. The police chief in his American home town said the police there would have done nothing to him had he vandalized cars there, so that is what the freedom refers to: the freedom to commit vandalism.

I would think that our nation which is #1 in the world with its incarceration rate would shut up about freedom, but we do not. Thank a veteran for your freedom is a good military slogan.

The notion that veterans are there to protect our freedom (what freedom?) is something even the current soldiers do not buy. One of them told me that the nations we declare war on or are our enemies are the ones thinking about setting up another reserve currency. He said his job was not to protect American lives or freedom but the American dollar, and that makes a lot more sense to me.

So, yeah, we own the world's printing press and because of that and the money we have, we think we are exceptional in everything just like a rich man thinks he is good at everything. The irony is how many Americans believe that #1 talk but have never left the country.

For me, it is precisely that we do not have freedom that I am going to retire outside of the USA. Sure, I will work next to the printing press and be rewarded for it, but I am not staying in a nation that is so full of it. You can see the hypocrisy dripping through just on this forum.

I will tell you one of the worst events in this nation's history. It was when Obama killed an American citizen without a trial. This was a blatant constitutional violation and where were the men and women who took an oath to protect the constitution, our "heroes", when this happened, storming the White House? Nope, they were sitting on their asses getting their pension checks and free health care.

Probably the greatest threat to my freedom is the number of people being paid off by our government and that includes current and former members of the military. These people care a helluva lot more about their government check than freedom.

One of the reasons I think some here were so pro lockdown is that they are or were government people who got paid during the lockdowns. For them, the idea they got paid for nothing is too tough to take. No, they were paid to lock down and keep us safe.

That is another thing the USA may be #1 at, the number of government workers patting themselves on the back.

[QUOTE=ShooBree;2624931]Actually it's thanks to Russia that Germany lost the war.[/QUOTE]The USA was so anti-USSR that it did not want to teach about their role in WW2. The USA beat the Nazi's be team.

With the movie Patton, you would think that Patton, Eisenhower, Bradley, Montgomery, or Rommel were the greatest generals in WW2 but I remember one text book saying Zhukov was WW2's greatest general and I was thinking, "And who the fuck is he?" he is actually rated here as the #8 greatest general of all time, and most Americans have no clue who he is: [URL]https://www.wearethemighty.com/popular/best-generals-ranked-by-statistics/[/URL].

[QUOTE=ShooBree;2624931]But congrats on dropping the A-bomb on Japan after they had basically already surrendered. Really impressive. Not.[/QUOTE]Well, the Soviet armies were done with Germany and turning their eyes on feasting on Japan. The bomb was meant to end the war as quickly as possible even if it meant the loss of a huge amount of civilian life not just to defeat Japan but to keep the Soviets out. Given that the Soviets did not take over Japan, and Japan became the world's #2 economic power in comparison to what happened to those nations in Eastern Europe, I think it is fair to say it worked out for the best for the country as a whole. The USA likes to think of itself as their WW2 machine was the most powerful military ever assembled but it seems to me the Soviets had a force that actually was.

[QUOTE=ShooBree;2624931]BTW, good work in Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan.[/QUOTE]Oh, you are most welcome. There is more to come. Biden is doing something big in Asia and Africa. I suspect he is going to be fighting proxy wars with China there. I suspect the Syrian refugee flood in Europe will be an African flood soon.

I think the Democratic douches learned their point and hate thing from the military. I am not sure what African or Asian leader is going to be threatening our way of life next but I have every confidence our military will find someone who fits the part.

[QUOTE=Ptrbrgr;2624678]Hi JjBee62,

I started reading some of the posts on this board a few weeks ago, and you always struck me as a very level-headed guy. This post however was a bit of a head scratcher.

I am not a vegan, but I fully recognize how much damage to the planet and animal suffering is caused by the meat industry. With all due respect, your rationale and bean examples seem a bit underwhelming in light of the fact that less than 10% of all soy is used for human food products such as tofu and soy milk, and a large number of studies suggest that global land use could drop tremendously if everybody went vegan (for example [URL]https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.aaq0216[/URL]). I recognize that I might be missing something, and I'd certainly be open to change my mind if you can corroborate your statements. I also recognize that this board is not about diet choices, but then, I didn't start it.

Ethical concerns aside, I disagree with most of JustTK's statements about vaccination, but that doesn't mean I have to disagree with him if he says the sky is blue.[/QUOTE]There's some hyperbole in there.

What I was pointing out is there's much more involved than what most people recognize.

Global land use could be reduced if everyone went vegan. However, what happens to 500 million chickens, 100 million cows and 75 million pigs (just in the US)? We either kill them into extinction, or we turn them loose. I already have to deal with too many deer on the highways, the typical cow weighs 500 lbs more. The pigs are a bigger concern, because they're much more dangerous. Let them go feral and we're going to start losing people to them.

There are very few simple answers to complex problems.

[QUOTE=Villainy;2624898]Every thing you said is either mistaken or a lie. You tell me which?

90% of the casualties weren't at the Eastern Front but it certainly was the highest percentage. Mostly because a complete German army was abandoned and not permitted to retreat during the battle of Stalingrad.

[URL]https://www.britannica.com/event/Battle-of-Stalingrad[/URL]

If it had not been for the American supplies and equipment sent to Great Britain and Russia you wouldn't be able to manufacture your version of history.

Oh and BTW you are full of shit about who invented the internet as well.

[URL]https://www.history.com/news/who-invented-the-internet[/URL]

The scientist you reference above, came along later and developed the WWW methodology. BTW he was working at MIT (for ignorant like you that is the abbreviation of Massachusetts Institute of Technology) when these new protocols were developed.[/QUOTE]I'm not going to wade into the WW2 conflict. It's obvious a few people didn't learn their history. It also appears one person is very upset that the Nazis lost.

However, the internet was created by the US DARPA. Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency. Originally it was called DarpaNet.

I was heavily involved in the rollout of access to the WorldWideWeb at Sandia National Labs, in 1995. At the time everyone had access to the internet at the labs, but it was decided that everyone needed WWW access. At the time that required manually configuring each computer, adding the drivers and installing the Netscape browser. Once we got into the swing of it, we could set someone up in about 10 minutes. The hardest part was explaining to everyone why they needed it.

With most of the people, we would just ask what they were interested in, then type it into a search engine and show them the results. Easier and more visual than a Gopher search.

At the time they hadn't come up with an Acceptable Use Policy yet, and told us to tell everyone "use your best judgement. " I warned them that they were going to end up firing a lot of people, because "best judgement" is going to tell them, since they're already allowed to use the internet for personal use during their own time, they would go straight to the porn.

It took less than 3 weeks before they had to start firing people. As soon as it started, my phone started ringing. I went around, changed NICs, Network Interface Cards, changed IPs, and cleared browser histories and saved about 10 people from getting fired. At our next IT meeting my boss had the nerve to ask why nobody had thought about how people might misuse the web. That's when I decided I was done with IT.

I'm currently, much busier than any dead or completely disabled person should be. Sorry for the confusion, but I had some difficulty with your diagnosis. There was only 1 bit which I'm certain about.

You're insane.

When someone who isn't a doctor, who has demonstrated an abysmal level of knowledge, claims he's more qualified than 7 doctors he knows nothing about, that's insane.

When someone (not a doctor, etc) claims to know more about the health of a person he's never met, than the person (or any of his doctors), that's insane.

I could go on, but there's only 2 possible conclusions. Either you're insane, or you're trying to convince everyone you're insane. Considering you're making the effort on an anonymous monger board, I believe it amounts to the same thing. That's not a diagnosis, just an analysis of what you've demonstrated. Feel free to consult with a qualified professional.

I'm certain you will have a response which is equally insane, but it's unlikely I'll find the time to read it, what with being busy and in whatever state of invalidism you've declared for me.

However, I would like to leave you with something you caused me to remember.

[URL]https://youtu.be/Oz-TPoswOQA[/URL]

[QUOTE=Ptrbrgr;2624678]Hi JjBee62,

Ethical concerns aside, I disagree with most of JustTK's statements about vaccination, but that doesn't mean I have to disagree with him if he says the sky is blue.[/QUOTE]I enjoy your methods, although it's been many years since I've been patient enough to emulate them. Benjamin Franklin would approve. If you can find a copy, his autobiography is well worth your time.

I've been doing the online debate thing for over 30 years, well before the worldwide web. Long ago I learned the paradox of reasoned debate. It's nearly impossible to have a reasoned debate.

If you are debating someone capable of reasoned debate, they've done their research, they've correctly applied logic and have built a robust argument. Which leaves only minor points of contention. If your opponent is incapable, or unwilling to engage in reasoned debate, you're left wading through a flood of logical fallacies from someone who has no interest in fact.

The vaccination debate illustrates this perfectly. The main question, to vaccinate or not, is clear, both for the individual and the larger population. What you're left with are reasonably minor side issues. For example, do the rights of the individual override the welfare of the population. I believe it does, with restrictions. However, if you're making the argument of your right to refuse the vaccine, you've given up your argument that others should refuse the vaccine.

One subplot which is fertile for debate is vaccination strategy. Is it better to begin with the most vulnerable, or with those with greater risk of exposure? Another one, should distribution distribution begin with the wealthiest nations or with the poorest? There are many others, but few are interested in pursuing them.

[QUOTE=Villainy;2625027]You know less of history than you do about CoVid. I wonder if anyone here is surprised by that?

Russia did well against Germany largely because the US provided massive support when they needed it most. But you have to give a major assist to Hitler who made a myriad of bone-head mistakes that cost dearly.

You also failed to mention or recognize that after the war the US sent billions of dollars in aid to rebuild the war torn countries of Europe. When in the history of the world has a victorious nation helped rebuild the countries that were allies as well as those that were conquered?? I think the world you'll search for is "never".[/QUOTE]When will USA send the money they owe the EU for taking the consequences of your failed wars in the Middle East?

You USAns might not know it, but you are laughing stock of the rest of the World and one of the biggest reasons for that is your lack of education. So I guess that your lack of knowledge about the WW2 really doesn't surprise me.

The Russians, supported by the UK, did much more than the USAns to beat the Germans. Maybe you didn't know that UK and the US are two different countries? That would explain why you appear to be so confused.

[QUOTE=ShooBree;2625304]When will USA send the money they owe the EU for taking the consequences of your failed wars in the Middle East?

You USAns might not know it, but you are laughing stock of the rest of the World and one of the biggest reasons for that is your lack of education. So I guess that your lack of knowledge about the WW2 really doesn't surprise me.

The Russians, supported by the UK, did much more than the USAns to beat the Germans. Maybe you didn't know that UK and the US are two different countries? That would explain why you appear to be so confused.[/QUOTE]I'm sure the US will be happy to square accounts with you Euro-cheats. When are you going to pay up the decades of arrearages in your balances for supporting NATO?

As to your knowledge of WW2 history. You should be bending down kissing our feet and throwing in a few BJ's when asked. If it weren't for US support during and especially after the war, Europe would be a collection of 3rd world countries.

[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2625050]I only entered this thread because I thought it was funny and some American hamburger chomper was insulting the Spanish language from a position of ignorance. I guess I should apologize for arguing with a fool, one who thinks putas are addressed as Seora Prostituta.[/QUOTE]I just noticed that Mileroticas website title for Sta Marta section is ".

Escorts why prepagos en Santa Marta. Putas Mileroticos" - must be a huge insult to sex workers if one of their primary sales channels refers to them as putas. Haha. I was obviously showing no respect to these people who are not even here to read my words. What disgracefull behaviour! Hehe.

[QUOTE=ShooBree;2625304]When will USA send the money they owe the EU for taking the consequences of your failed wars in the Middle East?

You USAns might not know it, but you are laughing stock of the rest of the World and one of the biggest reasons for that is your lack of education. So I guess that your lack of knowledge about the WW2 really doesn't surprise me.

The Russians, supported by the UK, did much more than the USAns to beat the Germans. Maybe you didn't know that UK and the US are two different countries? That would explain why you appear to be so confused.[/QUOTE]Actually Stalin was basically begging for help for a couple years for a western front against the Germans while Churchill and Roosevelt argued but finally decided to wait a so the Russians would be brutalized and also weaken the Germans which is what happened. The UK had been fighting the Germans all over the place usually losing and this is said with no offense intended to the Brits who suffered more than most of us Americans know. Then finally came Normandy.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2625067]American men travel to Colombia to get their sexual needs met and you have to hear about how exceptional we are. I can understand why you think we are crazy even if others do not.
You might be confused by the freedom line so let me explain. Freedom does not refer to doing drugs, gambling, or paying women for sex. We Americans have to go to Colombia for those freedoms.
Probably the greatest threat to my freedom is the number of people being paid off by our government and that includes current and former members of the military. These people care a helluva lot more about their government check than freedom.
[/QUOTE]Hehe, yes I agree that "greatness" and "freedom" are meaningless words without context. In what sense are you greatest or free? As you highlight. But in whatever sense you are thinking, it does seem that the USA is becoming less "great" and less "free" with each passing puppet / idiot is in charge. Any rational person can see that the reigns of power have passed completely to the ruling elites. And unfortunately, its not only the USA people that must suffer. And this is why I speak about it.

Where do you think to live?

[QUOTE=JustTK;2625353]I just noticed that Mileroticas website title for Sta Marta section is ".

Escorts why prepagos en Santa Marta. Putas Mileroticos" - must be a huge insult to sex workers if one of their primary sales channels refers to them as putas. Haha. I was obviously showing no respect to these people who are not even here to read my words. What disgracefull behaviour! Hehe.[/QUOTE]I got put on moderate mode as an American in the Philippines who has yet to post one field report or piece of useful information objected o me using the word skank on a report about "the ladies of the night" "courtesans" "escorts" "fille de joie" or whatever one calls feral prostitutes. Maybe Pornhub should moderate its language.

On a slightly different note, I watched a contemporary Sandista band play a Let's Go Brandon number en español, por supuesto. The chick was hot.

[QUOTE=Ptrbrgr;2624650] Here is PETA's take on this:
That said, in many of your posts it seems you are grasping for straws, ... it seems to escape you what conditional probabilities are.[/QUOTE]Hey Prtbrgr.

How are you? Thanks for you reply.

Yes, PETA and the official Vegan Society both have said it's a personal choice, up to the individual, and it is not anti-vegan to have a vaccine (or take medicine). Personally I think there is a lot politics going on in their public positions. Can you imagine if they took the hardline position and said taking medicine was anti-vegan? I would say they would immediately lose most of their members, and end the vegan movement for years to come. It is a hard enough struggle, without alienating the majority of, otherwise, good people. You make a special case for personal health – which is the one time they argue for being selfish. To me it lacks some consistency but I understand that it would be very damaging to take the opposite position.

"it seems to escape you what conditional probabilities are".

No, I have taken that it into consideration. Let me try to explain why the conditional probability is the same. This study result – vaxd person chance to catch COVID – 25%, non-vaxd person chance to catch COVID. Ok, on the face it these results you are more likely to catch COVID if you are not vaxd (due to the vax having some efficacy). However, there are 2 obvious flaws in this data – it is far from complete!

1. The study was run over a fixed period of time. If we lengthen the period then everyone will catch the disease. Both groups will be at 100%. This was verified by Andy Slavitt, the former White House Senior Advisor for COVID Response, who wrote "Given Delta's contagiousness & the fitness of future mutations in order to beat it, this means SARS-CoV-2 will be contagious enough that everyone will get the virus". And that makes logical sense too bcos if we extend the period under review then both groups percentage approach 100 and slow down. So that being the case, every person, whether vaxd or non-vax, will have the virus once, and during time every person will be as equally contagious (as the report stated). So everyone is equally dangerous to a vulnerable person.

2. the research compared a vaxd group vs an unvaxd group. But that unvaxd group is made up of some with natural immunity and some without. If however, there were more people with natural immunity, the stats would be closer together. Until we reach a point when one group is vaxd, and the other group entirely has natural immunity? Then what would the stats show? And what if the vax efficacy has waned in that group? Then what would the stats show?

Studies show natural immunity is better in the long term – see this Israel study - [URL]https://www.timesofisrael.com/study-covid-recovery-gave-israelis-longer-lasting-delta-defense-than-vaccines/[/URL].

And for those that say science is against the non-vaxd, read this - [URL]https://www.clarkcountytoday.com/news/israeli-study-shows-natural-immunity-delivers-13-times-more-protection-than-covid-vaccines/[/URL].

[QUOTE=Ptrbrgr;2624678] This post however was a bit of a head scratcher.
I am not a vegan, but I fully recognize how much damage to the planet and animal suffering is caused by the meat industry. With all due respect, your rationale and bean examples seem a bit underwhelming in light of the fact...[/QUOTE]Yes indeed, a baseless argument. One that has been thoroughly debunked countless times.

"Let's use beans today. Now, in order to plant beans, I need a field. Which means, since fields aren't naturally occurring, whatever is growing and living on the land where I want to grow beans, needs to be destroyed, wiped out, obliterated. ".

Well firstly, this is true of all food. As you say, most plant crops are fed to farm animals, so most land is cleared for animal farming, not for vegan human consumption. There would already be enough cleared land to feed the world several time over if everyone was vegan. To follow that line of thinking to its conclusion, one would need to argue for the end of all human civilisation in order to stop all farming, and very few advocate for that. Humans have a right to life, as much as other animals.

There are also some crop deaths – again mostly caused to feed farm animals. But vegans would try to minimize these deaths by implementing animal friendly harvesting and delivery techniques, whereas meat eaters would not give a sh*t. Using pesticides to kill 'pests" – again, not an argument against veganism. Farmers are not vegans – vegans would farm using animal friendly techniques.

So to summarise – whatever animal deaths there are in bringing vegan food to the human dinner table – you can multiply it several fold for the meat-eater. Then add on the deliberate cow / pig / chicken / fish deaths. Deaths in vegan food delivery would be accidental in a vegan world, whereas deliberate or uncaring in a carnist world.

[QUOTE=JustTK;2625390]Where do you think to live?[/QUOTE]I just put a deposit down on a place in Cartagena. I have been paying a lot to see my GF and either flying to Colombia to meet her or meet in Mexico, so we decided the time was right to settle on a place. The apartment there, which is expensive actually for Colombia, is $700 per month, but it is beautiful. We have a stunning 16th floor view of the harbor and now we get to pick out the furniture we like and make it into a home. I hope to be there 7 to 10 days a month and slowly increase that amount over time.

The other place I really liked and could see myself living is Argentina. A family member has brought property near Mendoza and the land out there is very rich, and you can live like a king for very little.

Is this impacting the puta market?

I see the media hacks are now blaming floods, mud slides and so on on global warming, not on the fact that Yankee McDonalds man has stripped land of trees and other natural impediments to erosion. Vegan ites are full of manure. The problem is the American one of over eating, over self indulgence. This Americanism is a cancer that spreads, much like their waist lines. Plenty of fat Europeans now. Not as be ad as US Blubber land but getting there. Ad as for African / black women. So unhealthy carrying around all that jelly.

I will give it to Africans, not the tubbies. They sure can move. That is because they move their asses and eat whatever they can.

Anyone know where I could get a vegan cat or dog?

[QUOTE=JustTK;2625483]Yes indeed, a baseless argument. One that has been thoroughly debunked countless times.

"Let's use beans today. Now, in order to plant beans, I need a field. Which means, since fields aren't naturally occurring, whatever is growing and living on the land where I want to grow beans, needs to be destroyed, wiped out, obliterated. ".

Well firstly, this is true of all food. As you say, most plant crops are fed to farm animals, so most land is cleared for animal farming, not for vegan human consumption. There would already be enough cleared land to feed the world several time over if everyone was vegan. To follow that line of thinking to its conclusion, one would need to argue for the end of all human civilisation in order to stop all farming, and very few advocate for that. Humans have a right to life, as much as other animals..[/QUOTE]It's fun watching you think yourself into a corner. Have you spotted the trap you built for yourself yet?

"Humans have a right to life, as much as other animals."

Do you see it yet? I'll add another piece of the puzzle.

"I'm not anti-vax, I'm anti-vivisection."

Perhaps you don't see it because you refuse to accept a few simple facts.

1. Unvaccinated people are more likely to contract Covid.

2. Unvaccinated people are more likely to infect others.

3. Unvaccinated people are more likely to die from Covid.

Even if you eliminate the first 2, which would demonstrate a lack of integrity, you're still left with an inescapable conclusion:

It's better to kill humans than to kill animals to protect humans. Or humans have less right to life than animals.

For the rest, you seem to not understand how farming works. That's not an insult, simply a natural consequence of not growing up on a farm.

If vegans farmed using animal friendly techniques, we would all starve. I say that because it would require everything to be done by hand. Just turning the soil would require 1 person over a week per acre. You could speed that up using draft animals, but that's not particularly animal friendly. At a guess, 1 person could produce enough to feed 10&15 people, but that's 16 hours per day, nearly every day.

Insects aren't the only pests to worry about. All types of small mammals have to be controlled. Look up "The great bunny bash of 1981" for just one example.

You mentioned animal friendly transportation, can you describe that to me? I'm in transportation business and I can really benefit from this animal friendly transportation. In the past 20 months, I've had 3 trucks severely damaged by animals. That's from 4 deer and 1 wild turkey. There were 2 other deer casualties, but they caused minimal damage. There have been countless other casualties, but they're mostly unnoticeable.

There's no way to avoid most collisions with animals. Everyone tries. If you eliminate hunting and other forms of population management, it gets worse. I was in Idaho in 1981 and driving down the highway looked like a jackrabbit invasion. You would see 10-20 every mile, either dead or crossing the road.

I'm still waiting for someone to explain the solution for all the existing meat animals if everyone goes vegan. Your thoughts?

[QUOTE=Villainy;2625350]I'm sure the US will be happy to square accounts with you Euro-cheats. When are you going to pay up the decades of arrearages in your balances for supporting NATO?

As to your knowledge of WW2 history. You should be bending down kissing our feet and throwing in a few BJ's when asked. If it weren't for US support during and especially after the war, Europe would be a collection of 3rd world countries.[/QUOTE]Here you go showing your ignorance again, not all European countries are part of NATO and more importantly no one needs or have asked the US to have such a inflated and irresponsible military spending. You should be ashamed to even bring that up considering that US military spending is the root of so much misery in the Middle East as well as in Europe.

The rest of the world would be so much better off if the US didn't even exist. You should apologize for even existing. Pay the money you owe for taking care of the mess you caused us in the Middle East and then go ahead and nuke yourselves.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2625491]I just put a deposit down on a place in Cartagena. The apartment there, which is expensive actually for Colombia, is $700 per month,
[/QUOTE]Do you mean you bought a place and the repayments are 700 pm, or your renting? Is it in Bocagrande? I have been to CTG a few times, and didn't see any other barrio in which it looked good to live.

[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2625496]
I see the media hacks are now blaming floods, mud slides and so on on global warming, not on the fact that Yankee McDonalds man has stripped land of trees and other natural impediments to erosion. Vegan ites are full of manure. The problem is the American one of over eating, over self indulgence.
Anyone know where I could get a vegan cat or dog?[/QUOTE]USA remains a small portion of the world. They may consume more on average but the bigger problem is world population. Lots of small meals add up too.

You can buy vegan cat food and vegan dog food. But best to convert them while they are young.

[QUOTE=JustTK;2625390]Hehe, yes I agree that "greatness" and "freedom" are meaningless words without context. In what sense are you greatest or free? As you highlight. But in whatever sense you are thinking, it does seem that the USA is becoming less "great" and less "free" with each passing puppet / idiot is in charge. Any rational person can see that the reigns of power have passed completely to the ruling elites. And unfortunately, its not only the USA people that must suffer. And this is why I speak about it.

Where do you think to live?[/QUOTE][URL]https://amgreatness.com/2021/11/12/the-royalist-left/[/URL]

[QUOTE=JustTK;2625693]Do you mean you bought a place and the repayments are 700 pm, or your renting? Is it in Bocagrande? I have been to CTG a few times, and didn't see any other barrio in which it looked good to live.[/QUOTE]Renting. The two best places are Manga and Bocagrande and we got in a place in Manga. We did see some nice modern complexes by the airport. My GF grew up there and in those neighborhoods she was concerned about being out at night. With Manga, her mother has lived there alone for a decade and not had any issues.

[QUOTE=JjBee62;2625157]I'm currently, much busier than any dead or completely disabled person should be. Sorry for the confusion, but I had some difficulty with your diagnosis. There was only 1 bit which I'm certain about.

You're insane.

When someone who isn't a doctor, who has demonstrated an abysmal level of knowledge, claims he's more qualified than 7 doctors he knows nothing about, that's insane.

When someone (not a doctor, etc) claims to know more about the health of a person he's never met, than the person (or any of his doctors), that's insane.

I could go on, but there's only 2 possible conclusions. Either you're insane, or you're trying to convince everyone you're insane. [/QUOTE]Well, there is another possibility, and that is you are insane, Professor Shit for Brains. You are the one whose brain allegedly froze up so badly that you could not speak.

Hell, the only reason your sorry ass brought up your stroke like symptoms was to show me up, and that blew up in your face. And now you got nothing left but name calling and groveling. "I will let you look at my chart". Go fuck yourself.

Assuming what you said is accurate, and we all know you are a fucking liar, you were in a hypercoaguable state and had symptoms of a clot at the artery where most strokes occur. Not that fucking hard. Like I said, your case bores me. The only thing interesting is if all your arms and legs were dysfunctional versus on one side, which would be new.

That would means clots in both sides of the artery. And no, I do not want to know.

A mini stroke is a warning sign, a preview of coming attractions, and you might not like this but clot formation or a plaque breaking off and occluding blood supply is more up to God than health care providers or you.

I can get that you are scared that what happened to you might be permanent, and that is why you are so fucking rude and in denial, but this is not my first rodeo, and I do not want to deal with some asshole in denial. Your health is fine? Once again, go fuck yourself.

The rate of stroke per year with someone in chronic A-fib is 6% per year. It goes down a little with treatment, but the treatment has side effects. You allegedly are not in A-fib all the time and that puts the rate lower, but it goes higher with RA, a previous ministroke, and probably with Covid. How high? No one knows, but with your work schedule and shitty attitude, that cliff I saw in you driving off of in the future is a helluva lot closer.

But then again, what do I know? I am insane. Go talk to your genius doctors, Professor Shit for Brains. I am done discussing this.

[QUOTE=MarquisdeSade1;2625701]irony is lost[/QUOTE]Curious to know where you think the irony was in either my or Elvis' comments.

[URL]https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/12/us/sweetheart-swindler-sentenced.html?surface=most-popular&fellback=false&req_id=722538783&algo=bandit-all-surfaces_setnthitem_0_news_typekoftopn_2_5_news&variant=2_bandit-all-surfaces_guardrails_pool_hp_3d&pool=pool/eb1c3756-caa2-47cd-b3ba-0be3d88f1636&imp_id=791532743&action=click&module=Popular%20in%20The%20Times&pgtype=Homepage[/URL]

[URL]https://aaronsiri.substack.com/p/cdc-admits-crushing-rights-of-naturally[/URL]

After formal demand, the CDC concedes it does not have proof of a single instance of a naturally immune individual spreading the virus.

My firm, on behalf of ICAN, asked the CDC for precisely this proof (see below). ICAN wanted to see proof of any instance in which someone who previously had COVID-19 became reinfected with and transmitted the virus to someone else. The CDC's incredible response is that it does not have a single document reflecting that this has ever occurred. Not one.

But it gets worse. The CDC's excuse for not having a shred of evidence of the naturally immune transmitting the virus is that "this information is not collected. " What?! No proof! But yet the CDC is actively crushing the rights of millions of naturally immune individuals in this country if they do not get the vaccine on the assumption they can transmit the virus. But despite clear proof the vaccinated spread the virus, the CDC lifts restrictions on the vaccinated?! That is dystopian.

End of link.

Well, now we know why the unvaxxed are so demonized even those with natural immunity. Clearly, the money made from said vaccines is filtering to the Democratic party. There is no other excuse. That is the reason the Dems are so vilifying those who are not vaxxed.

In the latest boneheaded rule, the CDC says you have to have your Covid test one day before returning to the USA if you are not vaccinated but you have three days if you are. Uh, why? Where is the science with this? Well, here is your answer: there is none. These are "scientists", government bureaucrats, literally making laws out of their ass that benefit them.

It is the douches here who tried to rewrite history, but these Democratic douches wanted to line up behind that fucker Fauci and let him do whatever he wanted. Happy now guys? Hope you enjoy that nose swab and oh by the way all those people crossing the borders on foot in car, THEY do not have to be tested, but YOU on an airplane do.

I would love some douche to defend the logic behind this. Yeah, let's make more stringent laws when Covid cases are plummeting. Jesus.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2625954][URL]https://aaronsiri.substack.com/p/cdc-admits-crushing-rights-of-naturally[/URL]

After formal demand, the CDC concedes it does not have proof of a single instance of a naturally immune individual spreading the virus.

My firm, on behalf of ICAN, asked the CDC for precisely this proof (see below). ICAN wanted to see proof of any instance in which someone who previously had COVID-19 became reinfected with and transmitted the virus to someone else. The CDC's incredible response is that it does not have a single document reflecting that this has ever occurred. Not one.

But it gets worse. The CDC's excuse for not having a shred of evidence of the naturally immune transmitting the virus is that "this information is not collected. " What?! No proof! But yet the CDC is actively crushing the rights of millions of naturally immune individuals in this country if they do not get the vaccine on the assumption they can transmit the virus. But despite clear proof the vaccinated spread the virus, the CDC lifts restrictions on the vaccinated?! That is dystopian.[/QUOTE][URL]https://amgreatness.com/2021/11/12/the-cdc-cant-prove-a-single-instance-of-a-naturally-immune-individual-spreading-covid/[/URL]

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2625954][URL]https://aaronsiri.substack.com/p/cdc-admits-crushing-rights-of-naturally[/URL]

After formal demand, the CDC concedes it does not have proof of a single instance of a naturally immune individual spreading the virus.

My firm, on behalf of ICAN, asked the CDC for precisely this proof (see below). ICAN wanted to see proof of any instance in which someone who previously had COVID-19 became reinfected with and transmitted the virus to someone else. The CDC's incredible response is that it does not have a single document reflecting that this has ever occurred. Not one.

But it gets worse. The CDC's excuse for not having a shred of evidence of the naturally immune transmitting the virus is that "this information is not collected. " What?! No proof! But yet the CDC is actively crushing the rights of millions of naturally immune individuals in this country if they do not get the vaccine on the assumption they can transmit the virus. But despite clear proof the vaccinated spread the virus, the CDC lifts restrictions on the vaccinated?! That is dystopian.

End of link.

Well, now we know why the unvaxxed are so demonized even those with natural immunity. Clearly, the money made from said vaccines is filtering to the Democratic party. There is no other excuse. That is the reason the Dems are so vilifying those who are not vaxxed..[/QUOTE]I don't condone being unvaxxed but for all you guys who don't want to get vaxxed and then worry about having to have PCR test done right before your flights back to the US there is an easy loophole. All you have to do is fly into Mexico as opposed to the US. Mexico doesn't and never did require a negative PCR test at all and crossing the land border CBP doesn't require a PCR test either. Ideally if you lived in San Diego this would work much better for you, however the Tijuana airport now has the CBX cross border express for like the last 5 years which makes it so you can cross the border into San Diego without stepping foot outside the Tijuana airport. So if you are unvaxxed and don't want to take a PCR just book your flight to Tijuana, cross the land border, and uber / bus it to SAN airport and take your next flight to your home city. Kind of like a layover in TIJ / SAN with a short uber ride between the 2 Airports.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2625954][URL]https://aaronsiri.substack.com/p/cdc-admits-crushing-rights-of-naturally[/URL]

After formal demand, the CDC concedes it does not have proof of a single instance of a naturally immune individual spreading the virus.

My firm, on behalf of ICAN, asked the CDC for precisely this proof (see below). ICAN wanted to see proof of any instance in which someone who previously had COVID-19 became reinfected with and transmitted the virus to someone else. The CDC's incredible response is that it does not have a single document reflecting that this has ever occurred. Not one.

But it gets worse. The CDC's excuse for not having a shred of evidence of the naturally immune transmitting the virus is that "this information is not collected. " What?! No proof! But yet the CDC is actively crushing the rights of millions of naturally immune individuals in this country if they do not get the vaccine on the assumption they can transmit the virus. But despite clear proof the vaccinated spread the virus, the CDC lifts restrictions on the vaccinated?! That is dystopian..[/QUOTE]I'm feeling some buyers remorse, with these mandates, I feel my voluntary vaxing wasnt so voluntary, if now they are forcing people "at the end of a barrel".

Reminiscent of the trains to the "work camps" ala WW2.

Some boarded the trains willingly, some didn't.

We all know how it worked out for all of them.

Many pro-vaxers (pro lockdowns pro maskers) here remind me so much of the capos in Viktor Frankls, Mans Search for Meaning.

[QUOTE=MarquisdeSade1;2626198]There were bars in Nana in BKK they all knew how much a girl was getting when she left with me, and that was less than everyone else was paying.

I would regularly take putas from the same few bars for the most part and they all knew what I would pay, never as much as everyone else was paying.

This monger never pays retail, jajajajajaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.

Aka sticker price / sucker price.[/QUOTE]You've been called out as a liar so many times by so many people. But you keep on with this BS. BlackThought and I agreed to call your lies. We put up $10,000 all you had to do was make a plane reservation, come to Medellin and show us your passport with all your travel stamps. You demanded a wager. We put it up. And surprise, surprise not another peep out of you. What's the problem? Won't your high-school give you the time off? Won't your mother let you leave?

[QUOTE=Gabacho;2626207]I don't condone being unvaxxed but for all you guys who don't want to get vaxxed and then worry about having to have PCR test done right before your flights back to the US there is an easy loophole.[/QUOTE]A PCR test is not needed to enter the USA. An antigen test (which is cheaper) is sufficient.

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2626259]A PCR test is not needed to enter the USA. An antigen test (which is cheaper) is sufficient.[/QUOTE]Well any test for that matter, if you transit thru Mexico into US via a land border then you don't need any test PCR antigen or otherwise.

Our leaders, who are paid by Big Pharma et al, want us all spiked up. Given most have taken the clot shot, why no herd immunity?

Or as an alternative, all you unvaxxed fucks could take a plane to Never Never Land where Trump is still fuhrer. Then you could get on a bus to Go Fuck Yourself. Now don't get me wrong. Unvaccinated people should still have certain rights. Such as, the right to inhale, but not the right to exhale. Get your fucking heads out of your stinky asses, roll up your arms, and bend over.

[QUOTE=Huacho;2626448]... all you unvaxxed fucks ... Get your fucking heads out of your stinky asses, roll up your arms, and bend over.[/QUOTE]Your compliant servitude leads me to suppose your quite used to bending over at the first request.

[QUOTE=Villainy;2626257]You've been called out as a liar so many times by so many people. But you keep on with this BS. BlackThought and I agreed to call your lies. We put up $10,000 all you had to do was make a plane reservation, come to Medellin and show us your passport with all your travel stamps. You demanded a wager. We put it up. And surprise, surprise not another peep out of you. What's the problem? Won't your high-school give you the time off? Won't your mother let you leave?[/QUOTE]Birds of a feather. You hang around all the weird ass freaks like JJquasimodo and Osteo.

We can only imagine what you look like, of course my post strikes a nerve with you.

Trust me you don't want to meet up with me.

[QUOTE=Huacho;2626448]Or as an alternative, all you unvaxxed fucks could take a plane to Never Never Land where Trump is still fuhrer. Then you could get on a bus to Go Fuck Yourself. [/QUOTE]Meanwhile I am talking to a Mexican chick that has been vaccinated and is currently on her second bout with covid in 1 month. There is a big world out there. This website is based in the Netherlands and this thread is about Colombia. What the fuck does Trump have to do with any of this? Maybe you missed the election when he lost and is no longer in charge of shit. Are people in countries that are not USA and don't want to be vaccinated being shamed by their fellow countrymen in the name of Trump as well?

[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2626424]Our leaders, who are paid by Big Pharma et al, want us all spiked up. Given most have taken the clot shot, why no herd immunity?[/QUOTE]It appears there are some things you don't understand.

Let's start with the basics. You keep referring to the vaccines as "clot shot. " Current studies indicate that about 20% of people with Covid develop blood clots. Both the AstraZeneca and Johnson & Johnson vaccines have a rare side effects of causing blood clots, almost exclusively in women under 60 and primarily in women under 24. The incidence of blood clots from the vaccine is much lower than the incidence of blood clots from Covid. Unless you're a woman, under the age of 60, a group most of us don't belong to, your risk of blood clots from the vaccine is almost non-existent, while you're risk of blood clots from Covid is reasonably high.

"Herd immunity" is not a precise measure. I'm going to refer to it as "criticality" for a moment.

A nuclear reactor is considered "critical" at a SUR (Startup Rate) of 1. That is, when the reactor power level is exactly self-sustaining, when each atom which undergoes fission causes exactly 1 other atom to fission, the power level is stable. The reactor could be at 10% power, or 100% power, but as long as that ratio is equal to 1, the reactor is critical. If it's greater than 1, it's supercritical, under 1, subcritical. This ratio is the most important measure of the reactor, because if it gets too high, the reactor effectively becomes a bomb. (This is something the movies have always fucked up. They'll say "the reactor is critical" and panic, but critical is where you want the reactor to be.).

That criticality is the same for infectious diseases. If the ratio is 1, then case numbers remain constant. The spread of the disease is stable. Herd immunity is achieved when each infected person, on average, infects less than 1 person, due to acquired immunity.

However, with Covid, there's no indication yet that infection or vaccination provides permanent immunity. Quite the opposite. It could be, in a year or two we'll discover that a combination of multiple vaccinations and multiple infections gives permanent immunity, or not.

We can simulate herd immunity, which most countries have attempted, with varying degrees of success. That's done with a combination of infection reduction strategies, masks, social distancing, reducing large public gatherings, contact tracing, quarantine and vaccination all play a role.

Even if either the vaccines or infection gave permanent immunity, we haven't reached the level where vaccination would provide herd immunity. Worldwide about 53% are fully vaccinated, 58% in the US.

There's really only 1 benefit of getting vaccinated. If you're vaccinated, your chances of surviving Covid go way up. If you survive you have a chance of seeing herd immunity achieved. If you don't, you move the rest of us closer to the goal.

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2626604]Meanwhile I am talking to a Mexican chick that has been vaccinated and is currently on her second bout with covid in 1 month. There is a big world out there. This website is based in the Netherlands and this thread is about Colombia. What the fuck does Trump have to do with any of this? Maybe you missed the election when he lost and is no longer in charge of shit. Are people in countries that are not USA and don't want to be vaccinated being shamed by their fellow countrymen in the name of Trump as well?[/QUOTE]I remember talking to a guy who would have received the Medal of Honor for his service in Vietnam, according to him, except his missions were all top secret. He was also only 12 at the end of hostilities in Vietnam, but I'm sure he was being completely truthful.

I'm sure you realize this already, but you shouldn't accept everything everyone says as the truth, even if it comes from a Mexican chick.

There is a big world out there. Which is confusing if you're attempting to say that 1 Mexican chick is the yardstick we should use for everyone. There are people who have been shot in the head, who survived with no long term problems. Does that mean getting shot in the head doesn't pose a health risk?

Trump no longer has anything to do with this, although I hear from people everyday who also missed the election where he lost and is no longer in charge. I'd estimate there are millions of them just in the US.

I've told you before, you shouldn't care about people trying to shame you for whatever reason. Can you walk into a local church and start talking about all the prostitutes you've fucked without people shaming you? If you believe what you're doing is right, then stop worrying about what other people think.

Shit, there are people out there getting shamed because they're on food stamps and they sometimes spend money on things that aren't necessities. I had an old boss try to shame me because a work injury that laid me up for 18 months cost the company $50,000. People right here on ISG tried to shame me because at one point I was flat broke.

Personally, I haven't seen anyone being shamed because they don't want to get vaccinated. Even most of the ones who are spreading false information about the vaccines aren't getting shamed. Some of them are losing their jobs, but that's nothing new.

It seems like there's a simple solution. If you don't want to get vaccinated, don't. Almost nobody will know, or care. If you want to convince other people not to get vaccinated, expect some resistance. It's the same as if you try to tell your married friends they shouldn't be married. There will be some resistance.

Now, if your big issue is that your employer, or the countries you want to visit require vaccination, the solution is still simple. Decide what's more important to you. Everyone does it every day. I know guys who won't work certain jobs, because smoking weed is more important to them.

Every employer, every country has the right to make rules. If you don't like the rules, go somewhere else.

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2626604]Meanwhile I am talking to a Mexican chick that has been vaccinated and is currently on her second bout with covid in 1 month. There is a big world out there. [/QUOTE]Of all is here: [URL]https://mises.org/wire/why-bidens-vaccine-mandate-hasnt-delivered-promised-results[/URL].

Let me start with my favorite line of the whole article: As of August 25,2021, it takes over twenty-five hundred vaccinations to prevent a single death in the US. The data for the developed world are worse.

The scientific basis for the mandate is dubious. We are told that the vaccine is effective and safe. If this assertion were true, there would be no reason for coercion, as everyone would voluntarily take the vaccine. Furthermore, anyone taking the vaccine would have nothing to fear from the unvaccinated. If the vaccine worked, then everyone taking the vaccine would be protected. Of course, the vaccine does not work for everyone. Since the vaccine does not work for everyone, it becomes a judgment call whether the risk of vaccination is worth the benefit. Contrary to what is claimed on a daily basis, the vaccine is not safe. There is a Centers for Disease Control and Prevention database of adverse effects. As of November 7, 2021, there were 2,725,582 adverse events in 634,609 adverse event reports, including 8,284 deaths, 9,726 life-threatening events, 9,580 permanent disabilities, 363 congenital anomalies or birth defects, 38,818 hospitalizations, 79,615 ER visits, and 121,100 doctor's office visits attributed to the covid vaccines. These are only the risks we know about so far. Nobody knows what the adverse effects will be one, five, or ten years from now.

The risk versus benefit calculation is purely subjective, as the risks are unknown currently. Even if the total risk were limited to what is currently known, the risk versus benefit calculation would remain purely subjective, because death from covid and death from blood clots and other known covid vaccine complications are not directly comparable, as individual fear of one type of death is not equal to the fear of all other types of death. Furthermore, the benefits to society of an individual covid vaccination are not necessarily the same for the person taking the risk of the vaccination due to the very large disparity in risk versus age. While it may be noble to voluntarily accept a risk to benefit someone else, it is immoral to coerce someone to accept a risk to benefit someone else.

[QUOTE=JustTK;2626526]Your compliant servitude leads me to suppose your quite used to bending over at the first request.[/QUOTE]Pure gold bro.

One of the best one-liners ever on ISG!

Encore por favor!

[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2626424]Our leaders, who are paid by Big Pharma et al, want us all spiked up. Given most have taken the clot shot, why no herd immunity?[/QUOTE]Because herd immunity is a pipe dream with a virus that mutates like Covid. The "scientists" have been pulling this if you just wear your masks, wash your hands, get the vaccine and everything will be fine shit for over a year now. You only have to look at how many people have been vaccinated and gotten the virus afterwards to see what utter horse shit this vaccine induced herd immunity is.

BTW, love that clot shot nickname.

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2626604]Meanwhile I am talking to a Mexican chick that has been vaccinated and is currently on her second bout with covid in 1 month.[/QUOTE]Simply brilliant, a most sound and marvelous way to draw sweeping conclusions on health matters where life and death is often at stake, "some Mexican chick told me that." We should all be laughing our asses off but I'll refrain as the matter is quite serious.

Someone recently said in so many words that it isn't debate when one side is constantly dishing out logical fallacies while the other side is tasked with unraveling them. I call that a circle jerk, and that's about all you can find in a hooker forum. Some of it is stupidity, some is just ignorance and lack of education, but if one wants real debate they need to look elsewhere. And there are places to find it around the internet, depending on the topic of interest.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2626789] what utter horse shit this vaccine induced herd immunity is.
[/QUOTE]"herd immunity" is a very appropriat term when you think about it. Vaccinating the sheeple.

The Bible says the shepherd should abandon the flock and go after the lost sheep. This could be an expensive and dangerous thing, depending on what ledge that sheep is on. They want all of us vaccinated, every last one. I feel this is for total control, with more QR / cell phone monitoring to follow.

Fully vaxed folk I know who now have covid are starting to worry about their tickers. They are even blaming heart attacks and strokes on climate change. I gave up Viagra o go easy on my heart, which does not need these vaccinations and their boosters, which remind me of CPR to kick start a dying heart.

[QUOTE=JustTK;2627065]"herd immunity" is a very appropriat term when you think about it. Vaccinating the sheeple.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=JustTK;2627065]"herd immunity" is a very appropriat term when you think about it. Vaccinating the sheeple.[/QUOTE]You are two for two on the one liners JustTK. I love it.

Hey, are you in Colombia? My gal just told me I have to bring my vaccine card as it is required everywhere. She is in Bogota. Are you seeing that too?

[QUOTE=JjBee62;2626680]I'm sure you realize this already, but you shouldn't accept everything everyone says as the truth, even if it comes from a Mexican chick.[/QUOTE]Or better yet, maybe I should not believe the documents she showed me confirming this. Afterall, documents can be made to show anything. Yes; everything and everybody in this world is one big lie. I guess we should not believe your lies about getting covid after being vaccinated either.

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2627136]Or better yet, maybe I should not believe the documents she showed me confirming this. Afterall, documents can be made to show anything. Yes; everything and everybody in this world is one big lie. I guess we should not believe your lies about getting covid after being vaccinated either.[/QUOTE]I guess they think you cannot get Covid after being vaccinated. The CDC shows that on the last day measured in September, September 4 on this chart, that out of one in six recorded infections occurred in the vaccinated. See the link: [URL]https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/[/URL]#rates-by-vaccine-status.

As for getting it twice in one month, that is certainly possible. I see people who test + 4 weeks after initially testing + all the time. I would not put that under common (most people clear it by 4 weeks) but would say it is not uncommon, and I fail to see why anyone would lie about this.

I guess if you think Covid is often a case of life and death you would be skeptical. I have not seen anyone die of pure Covid. Only death I have seen is a 93 year old with cancer where Covid was claimed to be the cause of death. I have seen people very often who are very sick with very low oxygen but once oxygen is put on them, they come up to normal or near normal pretty quickly. So often really sick? Sure. Life or death? Nah.

Paulie is right that there are two sides. Hopefully, here we try to get to the third side, the truth. We have the Republican who say Covid does not exist.

But we also have these Democratic douches have been exaggerating the effects of the virus since day one for political gain: [URL]https://nypost.com/2021/09/17/bill-maher-criticizes-liberal-media-over-covid-19-reporting/[/URL].

And thanks to these douches and their "scientists" we have had to endure these pointless travel bans, expensive, painful, and ridiculous swabs and now have to prove that we have been vaccinated to travel, and I guess to go out to eat now in Colombia.

I long for the day when travel vaccines and travel plans were what they used to be, directed by people on only one side, the side of the truth. Do you remember when getting vaccinated to travel used to make sense?

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2627098]Hey, are you in Colombia? My gal just told me I have to bring my vaccine card as it is required everywhere. She is in Bogota. Are you seeing that too?[/QUOTE]I am in Medellin. I think the vaccine card is only required for sporting events, concerts, etc. I have been to two stores today, neither required anything other than a mask.

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2627136]Or better yet, maybe I should not believe the documents she showed me confirming this. Afterall, documents can be made to show anything. Yes; everything and everybody in this world is one big lie. I guess we should not believe your lies about getting covid after being vaccinated either.[/QUOTE]Here we go again with the douches pretending they have knowledge, [URL]https://www.science.org/content/article/more-people-are-getting-covid-19-twice-suggesting-immunity-wanes-quickly-some[/URL] "To count as a case of reinfection, a patient must have had a positive polymerase chain reaction (PCR) test twice with at least one symptom-free month in between. But virologist Chantal Reusken of the Dutch National Institute for Public Health and the Environment (RIVM) explains that a second test can also be positive because the patient has a residue of nonreplicating viral RNA from their original infection in their respiratory tract, because of an infection with two viruses at the same time or because they had suppressed but never fully cleared the virus."

Then there is this chart from the CDC showing that on September 4, the last date data was recorded, that one out of every 6 recorded cases of Covid was in the vaccinated: [URL]https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/[/URL]#rates-by-vaccine-status.

So I do not what the douches are talking about. I have seen people not clear Covid for 4 weeks. Most people do, but there are many who do not. Of course, I have only seen hundreds of cases in person while the douches watch MSNBC and read the NYT and pat each other on the back about how smart they are.

As for Paulie's contention, there are two sides, there are. The Republican retards who do not want to vax anyone including 80 year olds with poor immunity, and the Democratic douches who want to vaccinate healthy 5 year olds.

What I hope we have here is a third side, those interested in the truth. Paulie's comment that Covid is often life and death perplexes me. 95+% of people are told to go home and isolate and nothing happens to them. Some are sicker and require treatment with drugs like Regeneron, and what we do see is people coming in profoundly low on oxygen. The only time I would describe this as "life and death" is in a hospital where no oxygen is available. In every case I have seen, you put these people on oxygen and shortly thereafter the oxygen levels return to normal. There is the fear said people will go on a ventilator, and it happens, but I personally have never seen it.

As for the deaths, the only one I have seen is in a patient with cancer who refused to be put on a ventilator. Cause of death on death certificates is horribly unreliable, and most doctors just put down whatever the government wants to hear. When Italy stripped all secondary causes and listed only pure Covid deaths, the number of Covid deaths dropped by 97%.

So I put 100 X more value on what people like what you say Mr. E than what I see on the news.

I have picked on the douches more because they have the government's ear, and I have been frustrated by the attempt to lower the often life and death Covid infections (cough, cough) with idiotic travel bans, often pointless vaccines, worthless lockdowns, and now the all too frequent painful and expensive Covid tests (on day one or three because why?

Do you all remember the days when travel and vaccines only had one side, the truth? Ah yes, those were the days my friend, and I hope they return soon.

[QUOTE=FunLuvr;2627173]I am in Medellin. I think the vaccine card is only required for sporting events, concerts, etc. I have been to two stores today, neither required anything other than a mask.[/QUOTE]Thanks FL. I will be in Cartagena soon. Hopefully, things are still mellow there.

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2627136]Or better yet, maybe I should not believe the documents she showed me confirming this. Afterall, documents can be made to show anything. Yes; everything and everybody in this world is one big lie. I guess we should not believe your lies about getting covid after being vaccinated either.[/QUOTE]I've tried really hard. I really have.

What documents? Hmmm? Is this just more of the complete bullshit you're rather famous for? Two positive Covid tests in 1 month. You understand that if you contract Covid you will likely test positive for up to 3 months. That's why a negative test after infection is not required. Let me just clarify that for the dumbfucks in the audience. If you test positive for Covid, and you get tested again within a month, you're almost certain to test positive again.

Meanwhile you keep crying about some big, bad bullies trying to shame you for not getting vaccinated. I'll buy you a crying towel and a box of tampons.

Remember just a few weeks ago when you were trying to shame me because I said the authorities have the right to search your phone? Remember arguing that they couldn't and wouldn't do that? Remember when you found out that I was right that you tried to shame me for explaining the shit in detail?

Let's face it. You're a Useless, pathetic fuck that has no fucking idea what he's talking about, and lacks the sense to shut his fucking cock garage.

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2627136]Or better yet, maybe I should not believe the documents she showed me confirming this. Afterall, documents can be made to show anything. Yes; everything and everybody in this world is one big lie. I guess we should not believe your lies about getting covid after being vaccinated either.[/QUOTE]Let's dissect this again.

[QUOTE]Meanwhile I am talking to a Mexican chick that has been vaccinated and is currently on her second bout with covid in 1 month.[/QUOTE]You frequently bring something like this up. Who is this Mexican chick? What documents did she show you? Why did she show them to you? What Mexican chick is sending her vaccine card and her medical records to some guy she's talking to? Why would some guy ask a girl to prove something like that? Doesn't make sense.

Here's what I think happened. You fabricated the whole thing, in an attempt to show the vaccine is useless. When I called bullshit, you fabricated that the imaginary girl had shown you documents. As is so often the case with you, you failed to think any of it through.

As I already pointed out, 2 positive Covid tests in one month is not an indication of 2 different Covid infections. Another thing you failed to think through is that your example shows your belief that naturally acquired immunity is better than the vaccine, is more bullshit. Again I'll break that down to dumbfuck level for you.

If she caught Covid twice in one month, the first case shows the vaccines aren't 100% effective, something everyone knows. However, the second infection shows that naturally acquired immunity is much lower than the vaccine. It should be nearly impossible to get reinfected in less than 3 weeks if recovering from Covid provides any protection, because your body is still producing antibodies. The only way that works is if having Covid completely removes any protection against Covid.

To further explore your bullshit, Covid affects people differently. Some are only sick for a few days. Some go through multiple cycles of being sick. Some are sick for months. My own about I was slightly I'll for 2 days, felt fine for 5 days, became extremely I'll for a day, was only slightly I'll for 2 weeks and then was extremely I'll for 10 days. That's more than a month with 1 about. There was also an additional 2 months with a persistent cough.

As for my getting sick with Covid, you caught me. I spent 2 weeks in the Bogota Courtyard by Marriott, without leaving my room, just to convince everyone the vaccines don't work. Yep. Absolutely.

Have I mentioned that you write shit without bothering to think it through?

[URL]https://thebogotapost.com/colombia-to-require-vaccination-certificates-from-november-16/49401/[/URL]

'This includes: Pubs, bars, cinemas, nightclubs, concerts, casinos, sports events, church services, museums, and theme parks. From November 16, anyone over the age of 18 will need to show their vaccination proof.'

That's the gist of it.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2627199]Here we go again with the douches pretending they have knowledge, [URL]https://www.science.org/content/article/more-people-are-getting-covid-19-twice-suggesting-immunity-wanes-quickly-some[/URL] "To count as a case of reinfection, a patient must have had a positive polymerase chain reaction (PCR) test twice with at least one symptom-free month in between. But virologist Chantal Reusken of the Dutch National Institute for Public Health and the Environment (RIVM) explains that a second test can also be positive because the patient has a residue of nonreplicating viral RNA from their original infection in their respiratory tract, because of an infection with two viruses at the same time or because they had suppressed but never fully cleared the virus."

Then there is this chart from the CDC showing that on September 4, the last date data was recorded, that one out of every 6 recorded cases of Covid was in the vaccinated: [URL]https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/[/URL]#rates-by-vaccine-status.

So I do not what the douches are talking about. I have seen people not clear Covid for 4 weeks. Most people do, but there are many who do not. Of course, I have only seen hundreds of cases in person while the douches watch MSNBC and read the NYT and pat each other on the back about how smart they are.

As for Paulie's contention, there are two sides, there are. The Republican retards who do not want to vax anyone including 80 year olds with poor immunity, and the Democratic douches who want to vaccinate healthy 5 year olds..[/QUOTE]Here a question, with all these vax mandates, why the fuck don't they apply to Congress?

[QUOTE=JjBee62;2627208]Meanwhile you keep crying about some big, bad bullies trying to shame you for not getting vaccinated. I'll buy you a crying towel and a box of tampons.[/QUOTE]What the fuck? Why is your thing to always change what people say? I never said anyone was trying to shame me. I spoke about people in general, not me personally.

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2627489]What the fuck? Why is your thing to always change what people say? I never said anyone was trying to shame me. I spoke about people in general, not me personally.[/QUOTE]But she sure can take a huge shit on stage and throw it in the audience and piss and spit all over everything and just yell a lot.

You're trying to debate someone that belongs in a straightjacket 24/7 in a state hospital somewhere, permanently!

#1 troll on all of ISG.

[URL]https://yourmileagemayvary.net/2021/11/17/man-trashes-msp-airport-threatens-tsa-agents-life-its-a-free-country/[/URL]

Must be one of her friends.

[QUOTE=JjBee62;2626663]It appears there are some things you don't understand.

Let's start with the basics. You keep referring to the vaccines as "clot shot. " Current studies indicate that about 20% of people with Covid develop blood clots. Both the AstraZeneca and Johnson & Johnson vaccines have a rare side effects of causing blood clots, almost exclusively in women under 60 and primarily in women under 24. The incidence of blood clots from the vaccine is much lower than the incidence of blood clots from Covid. Unless you're a woman, under the age of 60, a group most of us don't belong to, your risk of blood clots from the vaccine is almost non-existent, while you're risk of blood clots from Covid is reasonably high.

"Herd immunity" is not a precise measure. I'm going to refer to it as "criticality" for a moment.

A nuclear reactor is considered "critical" at a SUR (Startup Rate) of 1. That is, when the reactor power level is exactly self-sustaining, when each atom which undergoes fission causes exactly 1 other atom to fission, the power level is stable. The reactor could be at 10% power, or 100% power, but as long as that ratio is equal to 1, the reactor is critical. If it's greater than 1, it's supercritical, under 1, subcritical. This ratio is the most important measure of the reactor, because if it gets too high, the reactor effectively becomes a bomb. (This is something the movies have always fucked up. They'll say "the reactor is critical" and panic, but critical is where you want the reactor to be.)..[/QUOTE]Great post and 100% spot on. Nice analogy to nuclear reactor start up.

[QUOTE=JjBee62;2627208]Remember just a few weeks ago when you were trying to shame me because I said the authorities have the right to search your phone? [b]Remember arguing that they couldn't and wouldn't do that?[/b][/QUOTE]No I do not remember that! So in order to show that you are not the chronic liar or habitual misunderstander that everyone already knows that you are, [b]please quote the post where I said these things.[/b]

You are forever accusing people of saying things, but it is funny that you never do something as simple as quote the post where they said it. Put up or shut up, although we know the chance of you shutting up is absolute zero.

[QUOTE=JjBee62;2627245]Here's what I think happened. You fabricated the whole thing, in an attempt to show the vaccine is useless.[/QUOTE]You are a piece of work. The way you get into people's head and read people's thoughts. The only problem with your bullshit telepathy is why would I need to show the vaccine is useless? That has never even been an argument of mine. Find one post where I have said the vaccine is useless. [B]My only argument is that people should not suffer social persecution and ramifications because they do not want to take the vaccine.[/B] I notice that you waste a lot of unnecessary thinking on shit that you can just simply ask about. But I guess asking is too easy.

[QUOTE=JjBee62;2627245]As for my getting sick with Covid, you caught me. I spent 2 weeks in the Bogota Courtyard by Marriott, without leaving my room, just to convince everyone the vaccines don't work. Yep. Absolutely.[/QUOTE]It seems you were the one trying to prove the vaccine is useless. Least of all it was useless for you. You go get the vaccine, contract covid, then proceed to spread it around on 2 continents. I do not get the vaccine and I have not had a trace of covid. So getting the vaccine did not work for you, but not getting the vaccine has been working for me for almost 2 years now. Hmmm.

I am not against vaccination by the way. But I am going to drag JustTK into this because me and him were 2 unvaccinated fools hanging out together partially wearing masks all over the cesspool of downtown Medellin. I don't know about JustTK, but I felt fine in the days after, and even took a covid test that turned out to be what? NEGATIVE!

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2626767][URL]https://mises.org/wire/why-bidens-vaccine-mandate-hasnt-delivered-promised-results[/URL].

Let me start with my favorite line of the whole article: As of August 25,2021, it takes over twenty-five hundred vaccinations to prevent a single death in the US. The data for the developed world are worse.[/QUOTE]You either do not read what you cite, or you do not fully comprehend what you read. Let me help you out, my man (cont).

You should have included the two sentences preceding your quote.

"Figure 1 analyzes efficacy based on the entire US population. The number to vaccinate in order to prevent a single death can be calculated from the slope of the regression line."

Now let's have a look at those blue dots in Figure 1. Does that look light a straight line to you? If yes, with all due respect, I encourage you to get your eyes checked. If not, and you still think the statement you quoted makes sense, you should maybe ask the institution that granted your degree (if any) for a refund.

If I am not mistaken, the most logical COVID article you previously put forward was written by a guy with expertise in animal husbandry. This one is just as bad. I always try to be polite to people, but some of your posts really are a bit embarrassing.

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2627576]No I do not remember that! So in order to show that you are not the chronic liar or habitual misunderstander that everyone already knows that you are, [b]please quote the post where I said these things.[/b]

You are forever accusing people of saying things, but it is funny that you never do something as simple as quote the post where they said it. Put up or shut up, although we know the chance of you shutting up is absolute zero.[/QUOTE]Ask and ye shall receive. Bear with me here, I'm going to cover both of your posts in this one.

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2617706]I was saying that the general public will give you accolades for serving in the military then on the other hand those same people will tell those same veterans they are not shit if they don't want to get the vaccine. Which is it? Am I the best ever, or am I a piece of shit? Or does it just depend on which side of the issue I stand on at the moment? Same as everyone was labeled heros and essential workers this time last year. Now if those same people don't want the vaccine they don't even deserve to feed their families; fired![/QUOTE]Here you'll see where you insinuate that people are calling you a piece of shit for not getting vaccinated. Seems like nitpicking to say that's markedly different from "being shamed. " So, if people are calling you a "piece of shit" for not getting vaccinated, and people are being shamed for not getting vaccinated, can you understand how that appears as if you're talking about yourself? If it makes you feel better, I can just refer to you as "piece of shit" from this point.

Now to the security searching phones.

Let's start here:

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2620326]Anything is possible, but is it at all probable? You guys act like the man is going to walk through immigration cussing people out and making demands. And who even is this person that is supposed to be asking him to unlock his phone? Everytime I pass through, it is just simple security saying to put things on the belt and do you have anything in your pockets.

The time I was taken to the back it had nothing to do with that. I was actually in the front of the airport just hanging around waiting to check in or something and the guy came up to me and told me to come to the back room for a random search. You guys are acting like someone telling a passenger to unlock their phone is an everyday occurrence when it is not. Next up: what to do and not do when you get a snake bite in Botero Park.[/QUOTE]Here you're declaring that having your phone checked is as unlikely as getting a snake bite in Botero Park (it's Botero Plaza, not Park).

As I said just because something is improbable, doesn't mean it never happens. The question wasn't about the likelihood, it was about the legal right for the relevant authorities to search your phone. Patience. I want to make sure I cover your request completely. Next up:

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2621021] When did the conversation turn to lawful requests? Last time I saw the conversation it was about unlocking your electronics for the Colombian authorities, but it was never established whether this is lawful or not. I only saw people yelling do whatever they tell you so you will not miss your flight or get framed.[/QUOTE]While you don't say it's not legal for the relevant authorities to unlock and search your phone, you are questioning whether or not it qualifies as a legal search.

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2621344]Again, could be and will be are different things. You could be struck by lightning today so you better stay inside. The chances of you being detained for not opening a stupid phone, I would say are close to zero, same as the chances of you getting struck by lightning today. Are you really going to walk outside and challenge that lightning?[/QUOTE]Here you're saying having your phone searched is as unlikely as getting struck by lightning. Another of your logical fallacies. There's no relationship between the two. I cut out all the silly stuff where you babbled about getting stopped by the Dominican police in a car. Seems kinda of dumb for you to throw that in after your complaint the discussion is about getting your phone searched at the airport. I understood the implication though, that just because the police request something, it's not necessarily legal. That appears to say that it's illegal for the relevant authorities to search your phone. Let's move to your closing argument.

[QUOTE]To answer your question, yes I would recommend someone comply with a lawful order, but if they are not sure whether it is lawful or not, then do not be afraid ask to be shown the code giving them the authority to ask for what they are asking for or ask for a higher authority that can verify they are allowed to be asking for that. Don't just roll over and do whatever is being asked because it "could" cost you time or money.[/QUOTE]When I backed you up against the wall, you came up with this wishy-washy response. This is your fight or flight response, and it's definitely got its sneakers on. You're refusing to admit such a request is legal, but you're unwilling to take a position.

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2621495]How do you know he is following orders? Moreover, if he was following orders, how do you know the orders he was given were legal? He could be acting on his own thinking he is doing something good and beneficial, or he could even have misunderstood orders. Have you ever done something in a different way than you were taught or were supposed to be doing it? I certainly have.

To nip this in the bud, please show where it is legal for the people at the airport in Colombia to ask passengers to unlock their electronic devices. And if you can not do that then I will gladly go to them and ask when I leave Colombia 2 days from now.[/QUOTE]Now we're getting somewhere. Again, implication and a refusal to accept the legality of the search is your modus operandi.

Need I continue? All of the drawn out discussion was because you kept arguing against people allowing the relevant authorities to search their phones. You can bluster and bullshit all you want, but it's all there. Talking about snakebites and Dominican police and fucking mustard packets, instead of accepting a simple fact. And then somehow it's my fault, for stating that fact clearly from the fucking beginning.

What was the conclusion, when you asked at the airport? Plain and simple, that what you spent a week arguing against was exactly what I told you again and again and again.

It's one thing to post such idiotic shit, but you took it to a whole new level by asking me to put your idiocy on display for everyone. I'm a people pleaser. If you want to make a fool of yourself and want me to point it out to everyone, I'm happy to oblige.

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2627585]You are a piece of work. The way you get into people's head and read people's thoughts. The only problem with your bullshit telepathy is why would I need to show the vaccine is useless? That has never even been an argument of mine. Find one post where I have said the vaccine is useless. [B]My only argument is that people should not suffer social persecution and ramifications because they do not want to take the vaccine.[/B] I notice that you waste a lot of unnecessary thinking on shit that you can just simply ask about. But I guess asking is too easy.

It seems you were the one trying to prove the vaccine is useless. Least of all it was useless for you. You go get the vaccine, contract covid, then proceed to spread it around on 2 continents. I do not get the vaccine and I have not had a trace of covid. So getting the vaccine did not work for you, but not getting the vaccine has been working for me for almost 2 years now. Hmmm.[/QUOTE]Continuing on. ISG decided I was done and posted.

When Cassius Clay, AKA Muhammad Ali, was drafted, he told them they could lock him up. He didn't run to Canada, didn't shit his pants and pretend insanity, didn't pay a doctor to get deferred. He took a stand and accepted the"social persecution and ramifications."

When you and JustTK decided to oppose vaccination, you both claimed a moral position, which is fine. However, instead of standing on your moral positions, you both keep trying to show the vaccines are ineffective. You with ridiculous examples and JustTK with lying about the results of studies.

To simplify it:

If your opposition to vaccination is as you stated, the effectiveness of the vaccines doesn't matter. If the vaccines are ineffective, social persecution and ramifications don't matter.

How have you made it this far without learning the basics of logic?

[QUOTE=JjBee62;2627591]Ask and ye shall receive. Bear with me here, I'm going to cover both of your posts in this one.

Here you'll see where you insinuate that people are calling you a piece of shit for not getting vaccinated. [/QUOTE]You need to take a trip back to English 101 to learn comprehension skills. Questioning whether something is legal is not saying something is illegal. It is merely a question.

I was not insinuating anything. I was asking how can people be labeled heros in one breath and be labeled the scourge of society in another. The only reason I refered to myself is because of my connection to the military and my connection of not being vaccinated. Even still I have never been labeled or called a hero nor a piece of shit. I am speaking from a societal point of view. Myself, I look at the military as a regular job and not something special to praise people for. Most people that go in do it for what they will get, not because they are trying to be some kind of patriot.

Run to the store for me. Most people would understand that I want them to make a trip to the store. But with your comprehension you would put on sneakers and literally run. Then when you came back and I asked why you were out of breath, you would say you told me to run.

[QUOTE=JjBee62;2627695]If your opposition to vaccination is as you stated, the effectiveness of the vaccines doesn't matter. If the vaccines are ineffective, social persecution and ramifications don't matter.[/QUOTE]What the fuck dude. Are you being serious right now? I explicitly said I was not against vaccination and here you come saying "if your opposition to vaccination is as you stated". I am pro choice; I am not anti-vax. How are you understanding these two very different things to mean the same thing? Add basic reading skills to the comprehension skills that you need.

I do not know whether the vaccine works, but I do know that it did not work for you!

Social ramifications always matter. Take a look at the movie Idiocracy where society started watering crops with Gatorade wondering why they were starving to death. Mf with sense comes along and tells them it is better to use water and they wanted to throw him in jail.

Seems like life is definitely imitating art these days when what matters is if you have the vaccination and not whether you have the disease.

[QUOTE=JjBee62;2627591]Here you're declaring that having your phone checked is as unlikely as getting a snake bite in Botero Park (it's Botero Plaza, not Park).[/QUOTE]Exactly! I said it was improbable and not likely. I did not say it was impossible and illegal as you attributed to me yesterday.

[QUOTE=JjBee62;2627208]Remember just a few weeks ago when you were trying to shame me because I said the authorities have the right to search your phone? Remember arguing that they couldn't and wouldn't do that?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2627098]Hey, are you in Colombia? My gal just told me I have to bring my vaccine card as it is required everywhere. She is in Bogota. Are you seeing that too?[/QUOTE]Yeah, I am still here. Just spent the past week in Sta Marta. Loved it. Yeah, they instroduced the measures while I was there. Seems a lot of places are displaying the notices at the moment, but no one is enforcing it. Maybe once the police recogise tbhis as a new opportunity to extort cash, they might be forced in to being compliant with the state mandates. Difficult to predict which way it will go. Will the people riot and overthrow the new manadtes, will the business organisers ignore the rules and the government lose motivation, will the police get heavy, will confirence in the virus continue to slide and everyone give up. Who knows. And all this is a country where the virus is already well under control. Its just farcical, it really is.

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2627576]...you are not the chronic liar or habitual misunderstander that everyone already knows that you are, [b]please quote the post where I said these things.[/b].[/QUOTE]Hehe, you noticed that too, hey!! He is unbelievable. He always misquotes, bcos it helps him put forward his arguments, but all it really demomstrtaes is that he is one of those people that is unable to pay attention; he simply sees or reads what suits his narrative and strawman's you. Good luck arguing with him. You will be going round in circles forever because he will keep changing your storyline back to the one he wants to attack. Hehe.

BTW. Yeah, I am still virus-free. Tried really hard to catch the damn virus, bar breaking in to an ICU. Hehe. It may be anecdotal, but it seems to me that good health and a decent diet is just as effective at preventing contagion as the darn vax. Not to worry, I will not give in yet. I will continue to put my respiratory and other organs where others fear to go.

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2627884]The only reason I refered to myself is because of my connection to the military and my connection of not being vaccinated. Even still I have never been labeled or called a hero nor a piece of shit.[/QUOTE]I'll bite on this one. You're not a hero for being in the military, because as you say, it's just a job choice. But you are a piece of shit for not getting vaccinated. So, bottom line, you're just a piece of shit like every other unvaccinated asshole running around threatening others.

"Collective fear stimulates herd instinct, and tends to produce ferocity toward those who are not regarded as members of the herd. " - Bertrand Russell.

Always appreciated the great man. I wonder though if he would appreciate being quoted here on this website several times. Hehe.

[QUOTE=Huacho;2627956]I'll bite on this one. You're not a hero for being in the military, because as you say, it's just a job choice. But you are a piece of shit for not getting vaccinated. So, bottom line, you're just a piece of shit like every other unvaccinated asshole running around threatening others.[/QUOTE]Eloquently stated on all points.

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2627887]What the fuck dude. Are you being serious right now? I explicitly said I was not against vaccination and here you come saying "if your opposition to vaccination is as you stated". I am pro choice; I am not anti-vax. How are you understanding these two very different things to mean the same thing? Add basic reading skills to the comprehension skills that you need.

I do not know whether the vaccine works, but I do know that it did not work for you!

Social ramifications always matter. Take a look at the movie Idiocracy where society started watering crops with Gatorade wondering why they were starving to death. Mf with sense comes along and tells them it is better to use water and they wanted to throw him in jail.

Seems like life is definitely imitating art these days when what matters is if you have the vaccination and not whether you have the disease.[/QUOTE]Barry Hussein aka Prez Comacho.

Dood at the pay fone trying to overpay the puta was hilarious reminds me of the fools in Tijuana jajajajaaaaaa.

[QUOTE=JustTK;2627970]"Collective fear stimulates herd instinct, and tends to produce ferocity toward those who are not regarded as members of the herd. " - Bertrand Russell.

Always appreciated the great man. I wonder though if he would appreciate being quoted here on this website several times. Hehe.[/QUOTE]Ala Bertrand and Christopher Hitchens.

Democrats either took some really good notes watching Marvel or they are Hydra!

"Hydra was founded on the belief that humanity could not be trusted with its own freedom. What we did not realize was that if you tried to take that freedom, they resist. The war taught us much. Humanity needed to surrender its freedom willingly." COVID!

[QUOTE=Huacho;2627956]I'll bite on this one. You're not a hero for being in the military, because as you say, it's just a job choice. But you are a piece of shit for not getting vaccinated. So, bottom line, you're just a piece of shit like every other unvaccinated asshole running around threatening others.[/QUOTE]The vaccine is so successful that the vaccinated have to have a lockdown in Austria.

I would never have taken the vaccine if I had known how badly the vaccinated would be treated, I can't even travel to Dubai nor Brazil without having to take a PCR- test just like the unvaccinated.

The vaccine is a scam.

[QUOTE=Huacho;2627956]I'll bite on this one. You're not a hero for being in the military, because as you say, it's just a job choice. But you are a piece of shit for not getting vaccinated. So, bottom line, you're just a piece of shit like every other unvaccinated asshole running around threatening others.[/QUOTE]In the UK, there are about 1800 people making claims against vaccine manufacturers. See the link: [URL]https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/vaccine-damage-payouts-uk-could-soar-next-year[/URL].

The Vaccine Damage Payment Scheme (VDPS) is a one-off tax-free payment of 120,000 ($160,000) if someone is proved to have been severely disabled as a result of vaccination from diseases such as measles, mumps, and rubella (MMR), swine flu, and more. Historically, the average number of annual assessments for the scheme has been 100. It is now estimated that there will be 1,500 to 1,800 claims, according to the tender document.

110,206,709 vaccine doses have been administered in the country as of Nov. 17.

Given that it takes 2500 shots to prevent one life, and that varies based on age and health condition, it seems to me that you are a real dick for making fun of someone's health care decision making, but this is what we have come to expect from you Democratic douches.

Seriously, where the fuck do you get off injecting yourself into someone's most personal decision? Maybe we should be checking to make sure that condom is correctly on your dick when you go to fuck.

The other part that is disgusting is that in the USA, the vaccine manufacturers get a pass from lawsuits. And the government officials who are pushing the vaccines are legally immune is well. That is not exactly confidence inspiring. Of course, a douche like you is in favor of the government getting a pass on any responsibility.

I am so sick of you freedom hating douches cheering on government irresponsibility. I still do not get why you cheer on the same government that has made it so profitable for women to soak men so badly that you have to go to Colombia.

[QUOTE=JustTK;2627934]Yeah, I am still here. Just spent the past week in Sta Marta. Loved it. Yeah, they instroduced the measures while I was there. Seems a lot of places are displaying the notices at the moment, but no one is enforcing it. Maybe once the police recogise tbhis as a new opportunity to extort cash, they might be forced in to being compliant with the state mandates. Difficult to predict which way it will go. Will the people riot and overthrow the new manadtes, will the business organisers ignore the rules and the government lose motivation, will the police get heavy, will confirence in the virus continue to slide and everyone give up. Who knows. And all this is a country where the virus is already well under control. Its just farcical, it really is.[/QUOTE]That is good to know. My gal said it is being enforced in Bogota, Cartagena, and Barranquilla with establishments being fined up to 1 million COP. That is anecdotal but I think it is true.

I had to scrounge around and find my vaccine card. Anyway, I look at it and you know what is there? There are two lines under the first 2 injections marked other and other. In other words, these fuckers knew the vaccine was going to fail and planned on boosters as soon as the vaccine was rolled out.

And the most vaccinated country on earth, Gibaltar, which is 99 to 118% vaccinated, is seeing an explosion in cases.

[URL]https://www.gibraltar.gov.gi/press-releases/rise-in-active-covid-19-cases-public-urged-to-be-cautious-and-reduce-mixing-8452021-7433[/URL]

[URL]https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/most-vaccinated-nation-earth-cancels-christmas-over-surge-cases[/URL]

And they are going on lockdown.

Then you have Ireland at 93% going on lockdown as well.

[URL]https://www.zerohedge.com/medical/93-vaccinated-ireland-has-gone-back-partial-lockdown-including-midnight-curfew[/URL]

You would think by now we would learn but we don't.

I love the Charlie Brown Peanuts comic strips where Charlie Brown went to kick a football and Lucy would pull it back, and Charlie Brown would fall on his ass.

[URL]https://*******.com/4yx6ey62[/URL]

In fact, when I went on seeking dates, I would inevitably run into women who would get cold feet at the last minute and cancel. I called that pulling a Lucy.

Things is the so called "scientists" keep pulling a Lucy with the American public. The pandemic will be over if you wash your hands, social distance, wear masks, get your vaccine ETC. You would think after 100 million cases that the public would be like, "Oh no, you guys are full of it. We are no longer listening to you", but they have not.

As for you JustTK, it is hilarious to me that your own actions to prevent getting sick (or trying to) are looked at with disdain. Like you JustTK, the reason I have avoided getting sick IMO were my own actions: staying away from people who looked sick, keeping conversations to a minimum especially with people who looked sick or had Covid. I have seen hundreds of people with Covid and have not gotten myself.

The irony is that when I shared what worked with me, I had some douche here say, "Avoiding sick people is not going to cut it. " Where do these douches get off saying crap like that? Why would anyone believe Fauci and all the "scientists" after all we have seen?

Austria, birth place of Herr Hitler, has mandated the clot shot for all. [URL]https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10220735/Europes-Covid-crisis-Austria-makes-vaccines-mandatory-EVERYONE.html?fbclid=IwAR09crS50_7_FhXztrE3e2dTDVcZJoCfLD-kWq75_M_RiBFSND5uU3BrS3o[/URL].

[QUOTE=Huacho;2627956]I'll bite on this one. You're not a hero for being in the military, because as you say, it's just a job choice. But you are a piece of shit for not getting vaccinated. So, bottom line, you're just a piece of shit like every other unvaccinated asshole running around threatening others.[/QUOTE]Never knew govt / big pharma could wage such a stong propaganda campaign, I'm sure you'd be the first one to tell the brownshirts where anne frank was.

Then again, you can't have an intelligent discussion with vaccinated people because of the inherent bias, because the alternative to them being "right" is realizing they were duped with a shitty treatment shot that doesn't "stop the spread" or prevent you from contracting covid, like real vaccines do for polio or cholera. Enjoy your required boosters every six months for the rest of your life because of your *now* compromised immune system. sickening.

[QUOTE=Huacho;2627956]I'll bite on this one. You're not a hero for being in the military, because as you say, it's just a job choice. But you are a piece of shit for not getting vaccinated. So, bottom line, you're just a piece of shit like every other unvaccinated asshole running around threatening others.[/QUOTE]Go to Austria, birthplace of Hitler, where vaccinations (sic) by bullies are compulsory.

[QUOTE=JohnnyWalker55;2628204]Never knew govt / big pharma could wage such a stong propaganda campaign, I'm sure you'd be the first one to tell the brownshirts where anne frank was.

Then again, you can't have an intelligent discussion with vaccinated people because of the inherent bias, because the alternative to them being "right" is realizing they were duped with a shitty treatment shot that doesn't "stop the spread" or prevent you from contracting covid, like real vaccines do for polio or cholera. Enjoy your required boosters every six months for the rest of your life because of your *now* compromised immune system. sickening.[/QUOTE]I'm vaccinated and it was here in Colombia. I don't really care that some people don't want to get vaccinated. The main objection I have is most people who post negative comments on here about the vaccine are blissfully unaware of the realities involved. Just look at what you said. This "shitty treatment" reduces the likelihood of you receiving the infection by dramatic percentages. It also greatly reduces the possibility of you spreading the virus too.

(I. E. You are anywhere from 50%-90% less likely to get the infection (depending on how long ago you received the vaccination) and since you are less likely to contract the virus in the first place you are also less likely to transmit it. (I. E. You can't transmit it if you don't have it). Also you are going to recover more quickly and less likely to die. If you get the virus and recover faster. Then the window of 'having it' to spread it is smaller also.

Is the vaccine perfect? No, not yet. You can still get the infection but it is much less likely. You make another stupid comment about 'real vaccines' not needing boosters. Well here are a few vaccines where boosters are the norm. Hepatitis A, Hepatitis be, Measles, Tetanus, Shingles, Pneumonia among others.

Here is an article talking about these issues from USA Today. It also includes the sources for much of their commentary.

[URL]https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/11/17/fact-check-covid-19-vaccines-protect-against-infection-transmission/6403678001/[/URL]

[QUOTE=JohnnyWalker55;2628204]Never knew govt / big pharma could wage such a stong propaganda campaign, I'm sure you'd be the first one to tell the brownshirts where anne frank was.

Then again, you can't have an intelligent discussion with vaccinated people because of the inherent bias, because the alternative to them being "right" is realizing they were duped with a shitty treatment shot that doesn't "stop the spread" or prevent you from contracting covid, like real vaccines do for polio or cholera. Enjoy your required boosters every six months for the rest of your life because of your *now* compromised immune system. sickening.[/QUOTE]Wow, so many BrainWashed DkHds out there. Getting poopied pants for people not accepting Poison into their body. CovidVax is a Lottery of Death and serious Illness and you're a piece of Sht for not wanting to risk your life. Just wow. Neurotic psycho vaxer DkHds.

[QUOTE=Villainy;2628213]I'm vaccinated and it was here in Colombia. I don't really care that some people don't want to get vaccinated. The main objection I have is most people who post negative comments on here about the vaccine are blissfully unaware of the realities involved. Just look at what you said. This "shitty treatment" reduces the likelihood of you receiving the infection by dramatic percentages. It also greatly reduces the possibility of you spreading the virus too.

(I. E. You are anywhere from 50%-90% less likely to get the infection (depending on how long ago you received the vaccination) and since you are less likely to contract the virus in the first place you are also less likely to transmit it. (I. E. You can't transmit it if you don't have it). Also you are going to recover more quickly and less likely to die. If you get the virus and recover faster. Then the window of 'having it' to spread it is smaller also.

Is the vaccine perfect? No, not yet. You can still get the infection but it is much less likely. You make another stupid comment about 'real vaccines' not needing boosters. Well here are a few vaccines where boosters are the norm. Hepatitis A, Hepatitis be, Measles, Tetanus, Shingles, Pneumonia among others.

Here is an article talking about these issues from USA Today. It also includes the sources for much of their commentary.[/QUOTE]And thank you for bringing a link with evidence, something besides the unsubstantiated, unsourced, dishonest by omission, rehased poop spun out by parrots who only read right wingnut media. There's a reason why the vast majority of individuals dying from Covid since the vaccine rollouts are the unvaccinated. Duh. It doesn't take a rocket scientist.

[QUOTE=Woodman09;2628219]Wow, so many BrainWashed DkHds out there..[/QUOTE]Pot calling the kettle black. Find the nearest mirror.

[QUOTE=Villainy;2628213]I'm vaccinated and it was here in Colombia. I don't really care that some people don't want to get vaccinated. The main objection I have is most people who post negative comments on here about the vaccine are blissfully unaware of the realities involved. Just look at what you said. This "shitty treatment" reduces the likelihood of you receiving the infection by dramatic percentages. It also greatly reduces the possibility of you spreading the virus too.


(I. E. You are anywhere from 50%-90% less likely to get the infection (depending on how long ago you received the vaccination) and since you are less likely to contract the virus in the first place you are also less likely to transmit it. (I. E. You can't transmit it if you don't have it). Also you are going to recover more quickly and less likely to die. If you get the virus and recover faster. Then the window of 'having it' to spread it is smaller also.

Is the vaccine perfect? No, not yet. You can still get the infection but it is much less likely. You make another stupid comment about 'real vaccines' not needing boosters. Well here are a few vaccines where boosters are the norm. Hepatitis A, Hepatitis be, Measles, Tetanus, Shingles, Pneumonia among others.

Here is an article talking about these issues from USA Today. It also includes the sources for much of their commentary.

[URL]https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/11/17/fact-check-covid-19-vaccines-protect-against-infection-transmission/6403678001/[/URL][/QUOTE]No, it doesn't reduce transmission, what it does is reduce the chance of death, and even that is proving not effective. Which is why the cdc mandated masks for indoor spaces again. And why you need boosters because the effectiveness is under 50% after 6 months. This isn't even debatable. Because the vaccine does nothing to reduce transmission, especially with variants (that occur naturally, not because of the evil unvaxxed). because it's a respiratory virus, and vaccines don't exist for respiratory viruses. only treatments.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00648-4/fulltext

[URL]https://www.ucdavis.edu/health/covid-19/news/viral-loads-similar-between-vaccinated-and-unvaccinated-people[/URL]

2 peer reviewed medical journals. ^ . trust the science

Get the shot if you want, I don't care. But mandating it is simply ridiculous. if you're not over 65/have 2 comorbidities it's literally the flu. statistically with the IFR. and if you're under 18 it's non lethal. literally And we have to take boosters every six months for shingles, tetanus, hepatitis? Seriously lmao?

It's not a vaccine, so stop calling it that. And linking an article from usa today (LOL!) shows me where you're at. the author is a mouthpiece for big pharma, linking clinical trials as proof of "vaccine" effectiveness
"trust the science! Debunked!

Like I said, you can't discuss the ineffectiveness of the covid shot with people who got it, because of the inherent bias.

if you can't see mandates as a power grab from the powers that be, I don't know what to tell you.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2628154]That is good to know. My gal said it is being enforced in Bogota, Cartagena, and Barranquilla with establishments being fined up to 1 million COP. That is anecdotal but I think it is true.

I had to scrounge around and find my vaccine card. Anyway, I look at it and you know what is there? There are two lines under the first 2 injections marked other and other. In other words, these fuckers knew the vaccine was going to fail and planned on boosters as soon as the vaccine was rolled out.

And the most vaccinated country on earth, Gibaltar, which is 99 to 118% vaccinated, is seeing an explosion in cases.

[URL]https://www.gibraltar.gov.gi/press-releases/rise-in-active-covid-19-cases-public-urged-to-be-cautious-and-reduce-mixing-8452021-7433[/URL]

[URL]https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/most-vaccinated-nation-earth-cancels-christmas-over-surge-cases[/URL]

And they are going on lockdown.

Then you have Ireland at 93% going on lockdown as well.

[URL]https://www.zerohedge.com/medical/93-vaccinated-ireland-has-gone-back-partial-lockdown-including-midnight-curfew[/URL].[/QUOTE]The next cards could be larger and have 20 empty lines.

[QUOTE=JohnnyWalker55;2628264]No, it doesn't reduce transmission, what it does is reduce the chance of death, and even that is proving not effective.[/QUOTE]Of course you provide no source material for this claim that the vaccines are "proving" to be ineffective against reducing mortality. And in fact, the one working link you provided, to the UC Davis article contradicts this claim and even your whole thesis altogether. See below. Have you been taking lessons from Elvis on sourcing?

"Although vaccinated people with a breakthrough infection are much less likely to become severely ill than unvaccinated, the new study shows that they can be carrying similar amounts of virus and could potentially spread the virus to other people. This study did not directly address how easily vaccinated people can get infected with SARS-CoV-2, or how readily someone with a breakthrough infection can transmit the virus.

'Our study does not provide information on infectiousness,' Michelmore said. 'Transmission will be influenced by several factors, not just vaccination status and viral load.'

Those factors could include, for example, when they were vaccinated and with what vaccine, the underlying status of their immune system, and the intensity of exposure.

It's very important to get vaccinated, Michelmore said, because vaccines greatly reduce the risk of severe disease, but you should not assume that because you are vaccinated you cannot get infected or transmit the disease to others. Mask-wearing and regular testing remain important, especially in areas of high prevalence."

Also your attempt to dismiss the USA Today fact check article, with no basis other than to appeal to your right wingnut media "big pharma" conspiracy theory is likewise a joke. That article is full of imbedded links to supporting sources, so if you want to discredit them all get to work. Thus far all you've offered is BS not above third rate barstool banter, while still calling Covid the flu and declaring anyone "healthy" under 65 safe. There's been many who've found themselves on their backs recanting such statements and some are now in the ground. Not to mention that the world is full of 40 and 50 somethings that think they are "healthy" but a thorough examination reveals otherwise.

P.S. It bears repeating. The overwhelming majority of those dying of Covid in the US are the unvaccinated, so man up and get the jab guys. Follow the advice of the article Johnny Walker just posted. He likely pulled it off a right wingnut blog, and those guys also have a habit of posting articles without reading them.

[QUOTE=JohnnyWalker55;2628264]It's not a vaccine, so stop calling it that. And linking an article from usa today (LOL!) shows me where you're at. the author is a mouthpiece for big pharma, linking clinical trials as proof of "vaccine" effectiveness
"trust the science! Debunked!
Like I said, you can't discuss the ineffectiveness of the covid shot with people who got it, because of the inherent bias.
if you can't see mandates as a power grab from the powers that be, I don't know what to tell you.[/QUOTE]You know that many of the popular dctionaries have actually had to change their definition of vaccine, to accommodate the latest addition? They used to define it as a shot that gave immunity. But bcos the CV shot doesn't do that, they had to redfine what a fkn vax is! Haha. Tells you a lot.

They have also started to redefine what an anti-vaxxer is. Used to be someone that disuputed the efficacy of vaxxes or believed some hocus-pocus about tracking systems and space invaders. Now it includes those who argue against mandates. Its incredible. Truly, truly dystopian. Hope some of the smarter folks will eventually wake up to this.

[QUOTE=Villainy;2628213]You make another stupid comment about 'real vaccines' not needing boosters. Well here are a few vaccines where boosters are the norm. Hepatitis A, Hepatitis be, Measles, Tetanus, Shingles, Pneumonia among others.[/QUOTE]It comes down to who gets to define the term "vaccine. " I'll go with the medical professionals any day over mongers rehashing misinformation from right wingnut blogs and / or misrepresenting the findings of studies. According to the CDC a vaccine is "a preparation that is used to stimulate the body's immune response against diseases. " The Covid vaccine has been demonstrated to do this. It need not accomplish it's goal perfectly or permanently in order to fit the definition. Annual flu shots are also technically vaccines.

[URL]https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/imz-basics.htm[/URL]

Here's some info on the pneumonia vaccine and associated need for booster shots.

[URL]https://www.cdc.gov/pneumococcal/vaccination.html[/URL]

So once again Johnny Walker is shrill and blustery but doesn't know what he's talking about. Is anyone surprised?

[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2628173]Austria, birth place of Herr Hitler, has mandated the clot shot for all. [URL]https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10220735/Europes-Covid-crisis-Austria-makes-vaccines-mandatory-EVERYONE.html?fbclid=IwAR09crS50_7_FhXztrE3e2dTDVcZJoCfLD-kWq75_M_RiBFSND5uU3BrS3o[/URL].[/QUOTE]Invoking Hitler into this discussion is perhaps the most idiotic statement I have seen in my 20 years of reading monger boards. Cheers.

[QUOTE=Psychman;2628393]Invoking Hitler into this discussion is perhaps the most idiotic statement I have seen in my 20 years of reading monger boards. Cheers.[/QUOTE]For whatever reason mongering often doesn't draw the brightest bulbs in the box. Wink.

[QUOTE=Paulie97;2628401]For whatever reason mongering often doesn't draw the brightest bulbs in the box. Wink.[/QUOTE]Yeah, you're the proof of that.

[QUOTE=Paulie97;2628342]It comes down to who gets to define the term "vaccine. " I'll go with the medical professionals any day over mongers rehashing misinformation from right wingnut blogs and / or misrepresenting the findings of studies. According to the CDC a vaccine is "a preparation that is used to stimulate the body's immune response against diseases. " The Covid vaccine has been demonstrated to do this. It need not accomplish it's goal perfectly or permanently in order to fit the definition. Annual flu shots are also technically vaccines.

So once again Johnny Walker is shrill and blustery but doesn't know what he's talking about. Is anyone surprised?[/QUOTE]You are such a 99.4% douche. First, you decry an Elvis source as one that is not correct and never give one example. Then you are completely fucking clueless about the controversy with the CDC and the term vaccination and assign blame to the right wing nuts when it is the government whose dick you are sucking that is the source of the problem.

[URL]https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article254111268.html[/URL]#storylink=cpy.

Here it is: Before the change, the definition for "vaccination" read, "the act of introducing a vaccine into the body to produce immunity to a specific disease. " Now, the word "immunity" has been switched to "protection. " The term "vaccine" also got a makeover. The CDC's definition changed from "a product that stimulates a person's immune system to produce immunity to a specific disease" to the current "a preparation that is used to stimulate the body's immune response against diseases."

You know what this is? A famous Democratic douche tactic in that you change the meaning of what a word means when you have no way out of winning an argument. Let me give you an example, "That depends on what your definition of is is. ".

Another favorite douche tactic is to compare the Covid vaccine to Polio. Well, guess what, the Covid vaccine is not in the same class as the polio vaccine, and the CDC had to change the definition of what the word vaccination was to fit them in together.

[QUOTE=Psychman;2628393]Invoking Hitler into this discussion is perhaps the most idiotic statement I have seen in my 20 years of reading monger boards. Cheers.[/QUOTE][URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5j2F4VcBmeo[/URL]

[QUOTE=Psychman;2628393]Invoking Hitler into this discussion is perhaps the most idiotic statement I have seen in my 20 years of reading monger boards. Cheers.[/QUOTE]Psychman.

Please excuse me as explaining things to American morons is not easy.

1. Austria doing Covid segregation is setting a precedent that Slovakia has already followed and Germany is considering is important.

2. Hitler was born in Austria. These new German and Austrian rules have been compared countless times to the segregation rules Hitler's honchos practiced in (Czecho) Slovakia and elsewhere.

3. Hitler had been a (male) prostitute in Austria. Evidence for that can be seen by examing who was murdered on The Night of the Long Knives. Dead (gay) men tell no tales.

4. Hitler was a pervert who, if he were alive today, would probably be posting nude photos of his niece, who had to do all sorts of sordid things to him, on the Philippines board.

5. As Hitler is a metric for many things today, he features often on the Internet as a meme or a simile, like "as cold as ice" "as hot as hell", "as stupid as a Psychman".

6. Shouldn't you be in Kenosha, looting in memory of the perverts Rittinhouse wasted?

[QUOTE=Paulie97;2628401]For whatever reason mongering often doesn't draw the brightest bulbs in the box. Wink.[/QUOTE]Gives 44,000,000 hits. You think all of those links derive from those not "the brightest bulbs in the box. Wink. "

Go check that. And google argumentum ab auctoritate, which is where you derive your arguments (sic). Wink.

Mongering attracts morons like you, who have no hope of getting a root unless you pay well over the going rate for it. Now back you go to loot over the Rittinhouse acquittal. Wink.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2628459]Then you are completely fucking clueless about the controversy with the CDC and the term vaccination and assign blame to the right wing nuts when it is the government whose dick you are sucking that is the source of the problem.
Here it is: Before the change, the definition for "vaccination" read, "the act of introducing a vaccine into the body to produce immunity to a specific disease. " Now, the word "immunity" has been switched to "protection. " The term "vaccine" also got a makeover. The CDC's definition changed from "a product that stimulates a person's immune system to produce immunity to a specific disease" to the current "a preparation that is used to stimulate the body's immune response against diseases."[/QUOTE]They all claim science is on their side, but guess what? None of them ever provide any science. They are not able to bcos, guess what? The science is not on their side. "I am going to go with the CDC definition. " haha, I bet he is. Bcos the CDC have changed the fkn definition to suit their narrative. That is the point! A point whkich sadly evades him.

[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2628563]Psychman.

Please excuse me as explaining things to American morons is not easy.

1. Austria doing Covid segregation is setting a precedent that Slovakia has already followed and Germany is considering is important.

2. Hitler was born in Austria. These new German and Austrian rules have been compared countless times to the segregation rules Hitler's honchos practiced in (Czecho) Slovakia and elsewhere.

3. Hitler had been a (male) prostitute in Austria. Evidence for that can be seen by examing who was murdered on The Night of the Long Knives. Dead (gay) men tell no tales.

4. Hitler was a pervert who, if he were alive today, would probably be posting nude photos of his niece, who had to do all sorts of sordid things to him, on the Philippines board.

5. As Hitler is a metric for many things today, he features often on the Internet as a meme or a simile, like "as cold as ice" "as hot as hell", "as stupid as a Psychman".

6. Shouldn't you be in Kenosha, looting in memory of the perverts Rittinhouse wasted?[/QUOTE]Encore. Encore.

[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2628583]Gives 44,000,000 hits. You think all of those links derive from those not "the brightest bulbs in the box. Wink. "

Go check that. And google argumentum ab auctoritate, which is where you derive your arguments (sic). Wink.

Mongering attracts morons like you, who have no hope of getting a root unless you pay well over the going rate for it. Now back you go to loot over the Rittinhouse acquittal. Wink.[/QUOTE]Great minds.

[QUOTE=Paulie97;2628401]For whatever reason mongering often doesn't draw the brightest bulbs in the box. Wink.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=ShooBree;2628445]Yeah, you're the proof of that.[/QUOTE]Says the guy who thinks the closest comparative match to Sweden is Iran, Syria and Iraq. You've forfeited any credibility with that one.

[QUOTE=Villainy;2628710]Says the guy who thinks the closest comparative match to Sweden is Iran, Syria and Iraq. You've forfeited any credibility with that one.[/QUOTE]Says the guy who thinks that Sweden is genetically homogeoneous and all Scandinavian countries are exactly the same. You're even so retarded that you actually said that all well-paid jobs in Europe are with US companies.

You're clearly brain damaged.

[QUOTE=ShooBree;2629059]Says the guy who thinks that Sweden is genetically homogeoneous and all Scandinavian countries are exactly the same. You're even so retarded that you actually said that all well-paid jobs in Europe are with US companies.

You're clearly brain damaged.[/QUOTE]Not brain damaged. Simply flawed. My biggest flaw is arguing with people who aren't very bright and can't read. Maybe English is not your native language. Who knows. Who cares.

Here is an article I saw in the Washington Post which color codes countries and regions according to their ethnic diversity:

[URL]https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2013/05/16/a-revealing-map-of-the-worlds-most-and-least-ethnically-diverse-countries/[/URL]

As to your other silly comment. I never said "all well-paid jobs in Europe are with US companies." If you could read or comprehend English you would see that I responded to a comment from one of your brethren, who said that Europe has higher average salaries that the US. My comment was that it was largely due to jobs with US companies. Those high paying tech jobs and finance jobs do raise the average quite a bit.

Since you can't read and your analytical ability is on a par with your reading ability. It really is a waste of time dealing with you.

[QUOTE=Villainy;2629359]Not brain damaged. Simply flawed. My biggest flaw is arguing with people who aren't very bright and can't read. Maybe English is not your native language. Who knows. Who cares.

Here is an article I saw in the Washington Post which color codes countries and regions according to their ethnic diversity:

[URL]https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2013/05/16/a-revealing-map-of-the-worlds-most-and-least-ethnically-diverse-countries/[/URL]

As to your other silly comment. I never said "all well-paid jobs in Europe are with US companies." If you could read or comprehend English you would see that I responded to a comment from one of your brethren, who said that Europe has higher average salaries that the US. My comment was that it was largely due to jobs with US companies. Those high paying tech jobs and finance jobs do raise the average quite a bit.

Since you can't read and your analytical ability is on a par with your reading ability. It really is a waste of time dealing with you.[/QUOTE]He can't deal with the actual arguments so he creates a caricature and argues against that while attributing it to you. It's the best he can do, irrespective of any reading abilities, as he wants to engage but lacks the wits to do so.

[URL]https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman[/URL]

P.S. This is the same twerp that desperately wants to be an American but never can be. He was caught repeatedly pretending to be one in the the politics forum.

[QUOTE=Paulie97;2629434]He can't deal with the actual arguments so he creates a caricature and argues against that while attributing it to you. It's the best he can do, irrespective of any reading abilities, as he wants to engage but lacks the wits to do so.

[URL]https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman[/URL]

P.S. This is the same twerp that desperately wants to be an American but never can be. He was caught repeatedly pretending to be one in the the politics forum.[/QUOTE]You are quite correct. And there are a few others who follow the same path. They can't formulate a reasonable argument or logical premise so they alter what was (said) written to provide them with a platform to argue what they want.

[QUOTE=Paulie97;2629434]He can't deal with the actual arguments so he creates a caricature and argues against that while attributing it to you. It's the best he can do, irrespective of any reading abilities, as he wants to engage but lacks the wits to do so.

[URL]https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman[/URL]

P.S. This is the same twerp that desperately wants to be an American but never can be. He was caught repeatedly pretending to be one in the the politics forum.[/QUOTE]Why do the US libtards always lie and make up shit? Its not normal, at least not in Europe. Its sick, you need professional help.

[QUOTE=Villainy;2629359]Not brain damaged. Simply flawed. My biggest flaw is arguing with people who aren't very bright and can't read. Maybe English is not your native language. Who knows. Who cares.

Here is an article I saw in the Washington Post which color codes countries and regions according to their ethnic diversity:

[URL]https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2013/05/16/a-revealing-map-of-the-worlds-most-and-least-ethnically-diverse-countries/[/URL]

As to your other silly comment. I never said "all well-paid jobs in Europe are with US companies." If you could read or comprehend English you would see that I responded to a comment from one of your brethren, who said that Europe has higher average salaries that the US. My comment was that it was largely due to jobs with US companies. Those high paying tech jobs and finance jobs do raise the average quite a bit.

Since you can't read and your analytical ability is on a par with your reading ability. It really is a waste of time dealing with you.[/QUOTE]No, your biggest flaws are that you are arrogant and brain damaged. You make your embarrassing and incorrect statements yet you keep making even more idiotic comments instead of simply apologizing and admitting that I'm way smarter and knowledgeable than you are.

I've said it before and I will say it again, you're stuck in the 70's. Its because of people you, arrogant and out of touch with reality, that the rest of the world looks down on USAns for being fat and uneducated loudmouths. You do realize that you would be laughed out of the room if you made these ridiculous statements in Europe?

But lets remind you what you actually wrote about salaries in Europe: "Those higher paying jobs that you are crowing about are largely with American companies."

Haha, its so stupid and incorrect that I have to laugh. It doesn't matter if you said a large part or all, its still just as moronic and incorrect. Embarrassing.

There Shall cause a Great migration from Europe and Australia to escape the Neurotic Psycho Vaxer nazis. It will be like the pilgrims escaping religious persecution from England and Europe in the 17th century.

[QUOTE=Villainy;2629359]As to your other silly comment. I never said "all well-paid jobs in Europe are with US companies." If you could read or comprehend English you would see that I responded to a comment from one of your brethren, who said that Europe has higher average salaries that the US. My comment was that it was largely due to jobs with US companies. Those high paying tech jobs and finance jobs do raise the average quite a bit..[/QUOTE]Just popping in here to take a pop and remind people how stupid low class Americans are. German engineers are the world's best. That is not in dispute. Sweden and (belatedly) Finland are also good. Ditto Switzerland, Denmark and the Netherlands. Northern Italy and Austria are amongst the richest parts of Europe. There is a reason the super wealthy live in Switzerland. Italian and French brands dominate the luxury market. And you think they are all US dependent, you Walmart winker.

Germany has survived the US robbing its technology and kidnapping its engineers (Paperclip). The problem for Germany is US bullyboy tactics over its Russian deals and the threat China's amries of engineers pose. For every one engineer Germany can throw at a problem, China can throw hundreds.

America, land of fat women, does not figure.

Here is a snap shot of median (not "average" salaries, you American moron). Note Europe wins [URL]https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/median-income-by-country[/URL].

Americans, of course, have no savings and most have no equity so they don't figure in the rainy day stakes. Too many hamburgers, not enough forward planning.

[QUOTE=Villainy;2629449]You are quite correct. And there are a few others who follow the same path. They can't formulate a reasonable argument or logical premise so they alter what was (said) written to provide them with a platform to argue what they want.[/QUOTE]I see that the Dunning-Kruger Effect is in full swing. The two American libtards are buss stroking each others already bloated egos.

Little do they know that the rest of the world are laughing at how uneducated and arrogant they are.

[QUOTE=Villainy;2629449]You are quite correct. And there are a few others who follow the same path. They can't formulate a reasonable argument or logical premise so they alter what was (said) written to provide them with a platform to argue what they want.[/QUOTE]The straw man is clearly the favorite. The second is the fallacy of the ad nauseum, or "proof by repetition. " This is when the same fallacious arguments / lies are repeated over and over while all corrections and rebuttals are ignored. This clearly is Trump's favorite, and that of his followers by extension.

[URL]https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_nauseam[/URL]

There's many more, but if I had to pick a third favorite it would be the non-sequitur, followed by false delimmas, either / or fallacies, also called black and white thinking errors. The latter is Mr E's favorites.

[URL]https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/logicalfallacies/Non-Sequitur[/URL]

[URL]https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/logicalfallacies/False-Dilemma[/URL]

[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2629498]Just popping in here to take a pop and remind people how stupid low class Americans are. German engineers are the world's best. That is not in dispute. [/QUOTE]Pretty silly comment. Depending on the type of product, Germany frequently doesn't rank. The US ranks much higher, and so does China, South Korea and India.

[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2629498]Americans, of course, have no savings and most have no equity so they don't figure in the rainy day stakes. Too many hamburgers, not enough forward planning.[/QUOTE]An equally ignorant comment. You obviously haven't a clue how American society works. It is true that many Americans retire with next to nothing in their savings account. But they receive a livable wage from Social Security when they retire. Some still receive pensions when they retire. The rest of the working population has IRAs and 401 Ks to supplement their retirement income. Most private companies make contributions to their employees 401 K plans.

But the point many ill-informed blowhards don't understand is that Americans own homes that they have lived in for many years and the value of those homes acts as a very large 'savings account'. Many of those Americans you despise, retire, sell their house netting a small fortune and have a very comfortable retirement. You might also remember that Americans have Medicare to absorb their medical costs once they reach 65.

[URL]https://www.forbes.com/sites/andrewbiggs/2019/03/15/u-s-retirement-system-rocks-europe/?sh=22371cc063ce[/URL]

[QUOTE=ShooBree;2629462]But lets remind you what you actually wrote about salaries in Europe: "Those higher paying jobs that you are crowing about are largely with American companies."

Haha, its so stupid and incorrect that I have to laugh. It doesn't matter if you said a large part or all, its still just as moronic and incorrect. Embarrassing.[/QUOTE]So you now admit that you lied about what I said or perhaps had trouble reading it but now you're saying it doesn't matter that you distorted the response. OK, sure buddy.

Let me ask you something else, Elvis. Oh I mean Shoo Bree hahahaha.

If lockdowns don't work (as you've said many times before) and Europeans are so smart. Then how come Austria has just entered into a lockdown with a vaccination mandate required as of February 1st.

Slovakia has also announced a lockdown and Netherlands has introduced a partial lockdown. Belgium introduced a work from home requirement for 4 days a week. Germany has seen a recent surge and is cosidering similar type measures.

[URL]https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-59343650[/URL]

Apparently you aren't so smart afterall. Or maybe you think you're smarter than all the Europeans governments that are taking these measures. Or maybe the reality is that you're not nearly as smart as you wish you were and you just don't know that much. Maybe I should just call you Euro-Elvis.

[QUOTE=Villainy;2629761] Pretty silly comment. Depending on the type of product, Germany frequently doesn't rank. The US ranks much higher, and so does China, South Korea and India.[/QUOTE]In engineering, to repeat, Germany and its satellite nations win. The US are just magpies. Germany's problem, as I said, is China vastly outnumbers them. That can be seen in China's advances in space and in blue water navies, which will soon clobber the Yanks and the British rust buckets.

Software is a different issue but again all the Let's Go Brandon's can do is cause dissension in China and kidnap Chinese citizens.

[QUOTE=Villainy;2629761]An equally ignorant comment. You obviously haven't a clue how American society works. It is true that many Americans retire with next to nothing in their savings account. But they receive a livable wage from Social Security when they retire. Some still receive pensions when they retire.[/QUOTE]LOL. Here is a video of the USA. Kensington Ave "the street where I live" where everyone owns their own cardboard homes [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUsdqsCMNwg&ab_channel=kimgary[/URL].

Here are home ownership rates. Cardboard land is in about place 50, though this varies in typhoon season [URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_home_ownership_rate[/URL].

[QUOTE=Villainy;2629774]So you now admit that you lied about what I said or perhaps had trouble reading it but now you're saying it doesn't matter that you distorted the response. OK, sure buddy.

Let me ask you something else, Elvis. Oh I mean Shoo Bree hahahaha.

If lockdowns don't work (as you've said many times before) and Europeans are so smart. Then how come Austria has just entered into a lockdown with a vaccination mandate required as of February 1st.

Slovakia has also announced a lockdown and Netherlands has introduced a partial lockdown. Belgium introduced a work from home requirement for 4 days a week. Germany has seen a recent surge and is cosidering similar type measures.

[URL]https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-59343650[/URL]

Apparently you aren't so smart afterall. Or maybe you think you're smarter than all the Europeans governments that are taking these measures. Or maybe the reality is that you're not nearly as smart as you wish you were and you just don't know that much. Maybe I should just call you Euro-Elvis.[/QUOTE]LMFAO, you claim to be from the US yet you can't even read and understand simple English. Its irrelevant and beside the point if you wrote "a large part" or all, it's still just as incorrect and moronic beyond belief. I for one couldn't care less. Instead of splitting hairs you should provide some evidence for your claim or just admit that you're a liar.

It's no secret that politicians are incompetent, just look at Biden! Yeah, I'm smarter than the politicians in charge, but I see that you're stupid enough to look up to them. That is laughable.

Its already been proven that lockdowns are ineffective, extremely harmful and an extreme way to punish innocent people.

You are dumber than I even thought was possible, you should come to Europe so more Europeans get to laugh at your stupidity.

What a ridiculous new system the Colombian government is imposing.

I went today to a restaurant with my brother's vax pass (I don't have one). The vax pass has a large QR code (for scanning only in the country of origin), his name, and a valid until date. It also mentions "COVID Pass" somewhere among a load of small print.

It is not possible for anyone in Colombia to read the QR code, and there are not even any details on the pass about what vaccine was taken or where etc.

I was asked "do you have a vax card? So I showed them the one that I had and I entered the restaurant with a shrug. Great protection this new system is offering.

[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2629498]Just popping in here to take a pop and remind people how stupid low class Americans are. German engineers are the world's best. That is not in dispute. Sweden and (belatedly) Finland are also good. Ditto Switzerland, Denmark and the Netherlands. Northern Italy and Austria are amongst the richest parts of Europe. There is a reason the super wealthy live in Switzerland. Italian and French brands dominate the luxury market. And you think they are all US dependent, you Walmart winker.

Germany has survived the US robbing its technology and kidnapping its engineers (Paperclip). The problem for Germany is US bullyboy tactics over its Russian deals and the threat China's amries of engineers pose. For every one engineer Germany can throw at a problem, China can throw hundreds.

America, land of fat women, does not figure.

Here is a snap shot of median (not "average" salaries, you American moron). Note Europe wins [URL]https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/median-income-by-country[/URL].

Americans, of course, have no savings and most have no equity so they don't figure in the rainy day stakes. Too many hamburgers, not enough forward planning.[/QUOTE]Its interesting to look at the value of cars imported to USA from the EU and vice versa.

[URL]https://www.statista.com/statistics/286399/eu-percentage-of-imported-vehicles-by-country-2012/[/URL]

[URL]https://www.statista.com/statistics/1128887/eu-car-export-value-us/[/URL]

When I lived in Silicon Valley almost all of the engineers came from Europe, India, Iran and East Asia. The USAns worked at Dunkin Donuts. LMFAO!

[QUOTE=ShooBree;2629896]Its interesting to look at the value of cars imported to USA from the EU and vice versa.

[URL]https://www.statista.com/statistics/286399/eu-percentage-of-imported-vehicles-by-country-2012/[/URL]

[URL]https://www.statista.com/statistics/1128887/eu-car-export-value-us/[/URL]

When I lived in Silicon Valley almost all of the engineers came from Europe, India, Iran and East Asia. The USAns worked at Dunkin Donuts. LMFAO![/QUOTE]Silicon valley aka the land of 3rd world slaves in the bay area.

How do you think big tech gets so rich, by "overpaying" under qualified 3rd worlders to do perfunctory / menial tasks.

But hey you made it to the Land of milk and honey, living 20 guys jammed in a 3 bedroom apt LOL.

Like the poultry and ag workers from Mexico in the USA jajajaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.

[QUOTE=Villainy;2629774]Let me ask you something else, Elvis. Oh I mean Shoo Bree hahahaha.

Or maybe you think you're smarter than all the Europeans governments that are taking these measures. Or maybe the reality is that you're not nearly as smart as you wish you were and you just don't know that much. Maybe I should just call you Euro-Elvis.[/QUOTE]Yeah, there you go again in your imagined majority. Sorry, douche, I am not Shoo Bree.

And yes, Europe is locking down again and just like I have been tired of you douches using Covid to control our lives under the guise of saving them, Europe and other places have rebelled against lockdowns. See the link: [URL]https://www.zerohedge.com/political/thousands-join-anti-lockdown-protests-australia-amid-new-restrictions[/URL].

Nobody is listening to you douches and your "scientists" anymore.

[QUOTE=JustTK;2629893]What a ridiculous new system the Colombian government is imposing.

The vax pass has a large QR code (for scanning only in the country of origin), his name, and a valid until date. It also mentions "COVID Pass" somewhere among a load of small print.

It is not possible for anyone in Colombia to read the QR code, and there are not even any details on the pass about what vaccine was taken or where etc.

I was asked "do you have a vax card? So I showed them the one that I had and I entered the restaurant with a shrug. Great protection this new system is offering.[/QUOTE]I wonder how much Pfizer donated to the president of Colombia. He was on CNBC saying anyone spreading misinformation about the virus should be charged criminally.

[URL]https://www.cnbc.com/2021/11/09/covid-vaccines-pfizer-ceo-says-people-who-spread-misinformation-on-shots-are-criminals.html[/URL]

He said life for many people can go "back to normal" once many of the unvaccinated get vaccinated.

End of quote.

Guess he has not heard what is going on in Gibraltar. Maybe we should charge him for criminally spreading lies about the vaccine touting how great it is.

I just wonder what a restaurant is supposed to do? Is this like using a fake ID? There is no photo on my Covid card, and it can be doctored so easily and it cannot be verified in Colombia. Haven't the restaurants been through enough hell yet?

[QUOTE=ShooBree;2629892]It's no secret that politicians are incompetent, just look at Biden! [B]Yeah, I'm smarter than the politicians in charge, .....[/B]. That is laughable.

Its already been proven that lockdowns are ineffective, extremely harmful and an extreme way to punish innocent people.

You are dumber than I even thought was possible, you should come to Europe so more Europeans get to laugh at your stupidity.[/QUOTE]OK Elvis. I mean ShooBreezer. One post you claim I'm too arrogant the next post you claim that Europeans are so much smarter than the rest of us. Then you turn around again and claim that [B]you[/B] are smarter than the politicians in charge of European countries. [B] You know what is best is regards to lockdowns, partial lockdowns, vaccination mandates etc. [/B]. Even though your European countries are reinstituting those same lockdowns, partial lockdowns and vaccination mandates.

Excuse my stating the obvious. But if you want a good look at arrogance, try looking in the mirror. As far as knowing what is effective in combating CoVid, you might try listening to scientists because you sure as hell don't know anything. As to you being smarter than European politicians? I doubt you're as smart as their pets.

Watch this short video. It explains so well why neo-libs in the USA are so staunchly pro-vax for everything.

[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=At-BI1KAUJw[/URL]

Brainwashed by propaganda, paid for by Big Pharma.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2629952]Yeah, there you go again in your imagined majority. Sorry, douche, I am not Shoo Bree.

And yes, Europe is locking down again and just like I have been tired of you douches using Covid to control our lives under the guise of saving them, Europe and other places have rebelled against lockdowns. See the link: [URL]https://www.zerohedge.com/political/thousands-join-anti-lockdown-protests-australia-amid-new-restrictions[/URL].

[B]Nobody is listening to you douches and your "scientists" anymore[/B].[/QUOTE]Yet despite all your protestations against getting vaccinated. "It has major side effects", "it doesn't prevent transmission", "it isn't effective", "it's only a political ploy" and on and on and on. Yet [B]you've been vaccinated[/B]. I guess that makes you one of the biggest hypocrites around. Or perhaps you don't believe your own BS?

[QUOTE=Villainy;2630156]Yet despite all your protestations against getting vaccinated. "It has major side effects", "it doesn't prevent transmission", "it isn't effective", "it's only a political ploy" and on and on and on. Yet [B]you've been vaccinated[/B]. I guess that makes you one of the biggest hypocrites around. Or perhaps you don't believe your own BS?[/QUOTE]I guess your tiny pea brain can only handle two POVs, Republican and Democrat, provaxx and antivaxx. MDS and I have been among the first to get vaccinated, and we have been open about that since day one.

The other part your little pea brain cannot get is that you have to be devoted to one POV despite the new data coming in. So if a treatment goes from being 88% effective to 3% effective, you have to continue to recommend that treatment even when it does not work: [URL]https://fyi.com/living/health-fitness/study-johnson-johnsons-covid-vaccine-only-3-effective-as-of-august-2021/[/URL].

And yes, no matter how much you douches scream and pout and click your heels and wish for it, the vaccine does not prevent transmission. The CDC says so and if a treatment is only 3% effective that would stand to reason.

But I have never been anti-vaxx but anti-douche. I am against almost all mandates and the bird brained one size fits all vaccine policy you dummies think is necessary. Vaccinating 5 year olds? Really? Given it does not affect transmission, I believe in freedom of choice when it comes to vaccination.

Of course, the vaccines have been political. Hell, half the reason I got vaccinated was political in that I wanted to travel. I suspected we would need vaccine cards to travel and sure enough that day has arrived.

But I never thought I would need a vaccine card to eat in a restaurant. I never imagined that things would get that stupid.

[QUOTE=Villainy;2630112]OK Elvis. I mean ShooBreezer. One post you claim I'm too arrogant the next post you claim that Europeans are so much smarter than the rest of us. Then you turn around again and claim that [B]you[/B] are smarter than the politicians in charge of European countries. [B] You know what is best is regards to lockdowns, partial lockdowns, vaccination mandates etc. [/B]. Even though your European countries are reinstituting those same lockdowns, partial lockdowns and vaccination mandates.

Excuse my stating the obvious. But if you want a good look at arrogance, try looking in the mirror. As far as knowing what is effective in combating CoVid, you might try listening to scientists because you sure as hell don't know anything. As to you being smarter than European politicians? I doubt you're as smart as their pets.[/QUOTE]Here you go showing your ignorance again, there's no such thing as "my" European countries. No European would ever say or think something like that.

You're so stupid and gullible that you actually consider politicians to be smart, oh my god! Did you intentionally try to kill me by giving me a laughing attack?

Are Hillary Clinton, that brown VP chick and Joe Biden the smartest people USA got to offer? If that's the case then I can honestly say that I have severely overestimated the USAns.

I could easily raise the GDP / capita of my country with over 10% in less than 2 years. The politicians are corrupt and incompetent, only brain damaged fools like you are impressed by them.

Anyways you have constantly failed to make any sort of real argument, you have instead lied and changed the subject every time that I prove you wrong.

Like for real where are the evidence that supports your statement: "Those higher paying jobs that you are crowing about are largely with American companies."

And when will you explain why Peru with their lockdowns have twice as many deaths / capita than Colombia and Peru?

Not to mention the failed lockdowns in Spain, France, Belgium and so on.

For once, be a man and don't change the subject or lie.

[QUOTE=JustTK;2630123]Watch this short video. It explains so well why neo-libs in the USA are so staunchly pro-vax for everything.

[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=At-BI1KAUJw[/URL]

Brainwashed by propaganda, paid for by Big Pharma.[/QUOTE][URL]https://thejewishvoice.com/2021/10/los-angeles-psychiatrist-says-covid-policies-are-not-about-health-theyre-about-authoritarian-control/[/URL]

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2630241]And yes, no matter how much you douches scream and pout and click your heels and wish for it, the vaccine does not prevent transmission. The CDC says so and if a treatment is only 3% effective that would stand to reason..[/QUOTE]It's been a long-time, if ever, that anyone has argued those that have been vaccinated are not contagious. But clearly, if you don't have the virus, you can't spread it. So if 100 people are vaccinated, and 5 get COVID anyways, that is better to reduce transmission than 20 unvaccinated people getting it and walking around. How does that basic concept elude you? Regarding your 3% argument, did you bother to follow your own link? That was just for JnJ. Moderna and Pfizer numbers were stated as being 64% and 50% effective in the same original article. Not as good as anyone would hope, but light years away from your basic premise. You are really showing yourself to be a dullard for the ages.

BTW, let me save you some keystrokes. I know "douche" will be coming my way. But since I'm not a democrat, you don't need to add "democratic" in the front of it. And will save you from being wrong once again. And just to note, douche was an insult that was used in the 80's. Time to update your vernacular a bit (hint: "whippersnapper" is not considered current either).

[QUOTE=Villainy;2630156]Yet despite all your protestations against getting vaccinated. "It has major side effects", "it doesn't prevent transmission", "it isn't effective", "it's only a political ploy" and on and on and on. Yet [B]you've been vaccinated[/B]. I guess that makes you one of the biggest hypocrites around. Or perhaps you don't believe your own BS?[/QUOTE]For Elvirus, preaching the latest right wingnut propaganda is a very high priority, yet his survival instincts trump that by a nose. Wink.

[QUOTE=ShooBree;2630287]And when will you explain why [B]Peru[/B] with their lockdowns have twice as many deaths / capita than Colombia [B]and Peru[/B]?..[/QUOTE]I sorry, I can't explain why Peru has twice as many deaths as Peru. Just a hint, if you can't write or understand English. At least proofread what you scribble out.

[QUOTE=JC9999;2630327]So if 100 people are vaccinated, and 5 get COVID anyways, that is better to reduce transmission than 20 unvaccinated people getting it and walking around. How does that basic concept elude you?.[/QUOTE]I don't wish to stand in your way of a good argument, but I would like to ask you where you get your %s from. Whatever reduction in % you give, kit is based on false logic. You ask "How does that basic concept elude you?. " - - I would like to ask you how does the concept elude you that all these studies have been based on a fixed length of time- which is false framing. How does it elude you and elude nearly all the pro-vaxers that in the real world, we do not restrict time. All credible scientists agree that we will all catch COVID eventually. So we are all at 100% certainty in the real world, not in a fictitious world where a short period will favour a vax. Even the head of the CDC agrees. So please explain to me, how is a vax person less likely to catch it when both vax and non-vax are 100% certain?

[QUOTE=JustTK;2630424]I don't wish to stand in your way of a good argument, but I would like to ask you where you get your %s from. Whatever reduction in % you give, kit is based on false logic. You ask "How does that basic concept elude you?. " - - I would like to ask you how does the concept elude you that all these studies have been based on a fixed length of time- which is false framing. How does it elude you and elude nearly all the pro-vaxers that in the real world, we do not restrict time. All credible scientists agree that we will all catch COVID eventually. So we are all at 100% certainty in the real world, not in a fictitious world where a short period will favour a vax. Even the head of the CDC agrees. So please explain to me, how is a vax person less likely to catch it when both vax and non-vax are 100% certain?[/QUOTE]I'm not sure I fully understand what % reduction in numbers you are questioning, but I believe it was the effectiveness of the vaccines over time. If so, those were straight out of links in the article linked in the original post in which egregious cherry-picking occurred. The main point is that if you don't have COVID, you can't spread COVID. Anything that prevents you from having COVID, no matter how long a period you wish to choose to look at, prevents the transmission of COVID. Now maybe there are good arguments that say "yeah, but, the costs of vaccination outweigh the benefits of that", but if the starting premise is false, the rest of the argument is suspect and difficult (at least for me) to accept.

Even if I were to accept that 100% of people will get COVID at some time, I find your "we do not restrict time" a bit contradictory, as what you have effectively done is not "restrict time" versus a longer period, but actually condensed it into a single time period. Which is the ultimate restriction of time.

[QUOTE=JustTK;2630424]I don't wish to stand in your way of a good argument, but I would like to ask you where you get your %s from. Whatever reduction in % you give, kit is based on false logic. You ask "How does that basic concept elude you?. " - - I would like to ask you how does the concept elude you that all these studies have been based on a fixed length of time- which is false framing. How does it elude you and elude nearly all the pro-vaxers that in the real world, we do not restrict time. All credible scientists agree that we will all catch COVID eventually. So we are all at 100% certainty in the real world, not in a fictitious world where a short period will favour a vax. Even the head of the CDC agrees. So please explain to me, how is a vax person less likely to catch it when both vax and non-vax are 100% certain?[/QUOTE]Apologies, I just realized you quoted the 5 in 100 and 20 in 100 numbers in your response. I made those numbers up for examples, but they have no relevancy for my core contention. Feel free to substitute in 3 and 10, or 5 and 7, or 11 and 15. It doesn't matter. The foundation of my argument stays exactly the same and still supports my next statement. The only case (s) where it would not is if you were to say the chance of getting COVID is exactly the same despite vaccination status (which you might be doing with your "everyone will eventually get COVID" statement) or you are less likely to get COVID by being unvaccinated.

[QUOTE=ShooBree;2630287]Here you go showing your ignorance again, there's no such thing as "my" European countries. No European would ever say or think something like that.

You're so stupid and gullible that you actually consider politicians to be smart, oh my god! Did you intentionally try to kill me by giving me a laughing attack?[/QUOTE]No, ShooBreezer I didn't say politicians were smart. You seem to be infatuated with changing what someone says so that you can make your argument. Learn that from Elvis did you?

Here is what I did and still do say. European politicians are [B]smarter and much better informed than you![/B].

[QUOTE=ShooBree;2630287]Are Hillary Clinton, that brown VP chick and Joe Biden the smartest people USA got to offer? If that's the case then I can honestly say that I have severely overestimated the USAns.[/QUOTE]I can't really comment on Kamala Harris or Joe Biden but Hillary Clinton is one of the smartest people that ever ran for President of the US. So why did she lose? She is unattractive and extremely unlikeable. In American politics smarts can not overcome being generally unattractive and unlikeable.

[QUOTE=ShooBree;2630287]I could easily raise the GDP / capita of my country with over 10% in less than 2 years..[/QUOTE]Of course you can, jajajajaja. Why don't you run for office and prove it? Otherwise you're just another narcissistic windbag.

[QUOTE=ShooBree;2630287]Anyways you have constantly failed to make any sort of real argument, you have instead lied and changed the subject every time that I prove you wrong.

Like for real where are the evidence that supports your statement: "Those higher paying jobs that you are crowing about are largely with American companies."

And when will you explain why Peru with their lockdowns have twice as many deaths / capita than Colombia and Peru?

Not to mention the failed lockdowns in Spain, France, Belgium and so on.

For once, be a man and don't change the subject or lie.[/QUOTE]OK, I seriously considered writing up an explanation and sourced analysis of each of your 'issues' but decided it isn't worth my time. You think these are 'gotcha' points but the reality is you are too lazy and incapable of analytical work to do it yourself. So you challenge anything and everything that doesn't fit your worldview. Why should I waste my time presenting the research and sources when you could do it yourself? (if you were not so lazy and incompetent). I think a better course for you would be to read and believe everything Elvis writes. It won't be right but at least you won't have to do any work. Have a nice day, wear your mask when you leave home and remember to take your Vaxx card.

[QUOTE=JC9999;2630547]The only case (s) where it would not is if you were to say the chance of getting COVID is exactly the same despite vaccination status (which you might be doing with your "everyone will eventually get COVID" statement) or you are less likely to get COVID by being unvaccinated.[/QUOTE]Yes, this is exactly it! Exactly what I am saying and what most pro-vaxxers fail to take in to consideration. I agree that the vax has some efficacy in the short term. The stats are clear on that. So of course, all other things being equal, in the short term fewer vaxd people will contract COVID than non-vaxd (I. E. A smaller % of the group). But everyone will eventually get COVID (I assume this means not literally everybody, but enough people that it may as well be everybody). This has been confirmed by Biden COVID response leader.

Its also clear that the unvaxd is only more susceptible to contracting the virus bcos that group includes people who have yet to catch the virus. But over time more of that group will catch the virus and will have natural immunity, so essentially the vital characteristics of both groups will become equal. Both will undergo a period when they have the virus, and both groups will be equally dangerous to vulnerable people at that time.

So if the end result is the same in both groups, why is it essential to be vaccinated? The non-vaxd are only an extra danger to themselves, so why not leave them be?

[QUOTE=Villainy;2630579]No, ShooBreezer I didn't say politicians were smart. You seem to be infatuated with changing what someone says so that you can make your argument. Learn that from Elvis did you?

Here is what I did and still do say. European politicians are [B]smarter and much better informed than you![/B].

I can't really comment on Kamala Harris or Joe Biden but Hillary Clinton is one of the smartest people that ever ran for President of the US. So why did she lose? She is unattractive and extremely unlikeable. In American politics smarts can not overcome being generally unattractive and unlikeable.

Of course you can, jajajajaja. Why don't you run for office and prove it? Otherwise you're just another narcissistic windbag.

OK, I seriously considered writing up an explanation and sourced analysis of each of your 'issues' but decided it isn't worth my time. You think these are 'gotcha' points but the reality is you are too lazy and incapable of analytical work to do it yourself. So you challenge anything and everything that doesn't fit your worldview. Why should I waste my time presenting the research and sources when you could do it yourself? (if you were not so lazy and incompetent). I think a better course for you would be to read and believe everything Elvis writes. It won't be right but at least you won't have to do any work. Have a nice day, wear your mask when you leave home and remember to take your Vaxx card.[/QUOTE]Wow, so much stupidity and dishonesty from you. All that you wrote is incorrect.

Time after time you respond with lies, personal attacks and pathetic attempts to change the topic. You still haven't revealed the source to your lie that "Those higher paying jobs that you are crowing about are largely with American companies".

You're a troll, plan and simple. You make false claims and when confronted you change the topic. Its ridiculous to see.

You just made a long post where you implicitly expressed how smart you consider politician to be and now you changed the tune. You don't have a leg to stand on. You go back and forth because you lack any real arguments.

I don't expect a loser like you to understand it, but there's really no reason to become a politician unless you can't make it in the private sector. That applies especially to us who like to monger.

Time after time you reveal that you have no clue at all how politics works.

[QUOTE=Villainy;2630579]OK, I seriously considered writing up an explanation and sourced analysis of each of your 'issues' but decided it isn't worth my time. You think these are 'gotcha' points but the reality is you are too lazy and incapable of analytical work to do it yourself. So you challenge anything and everything that doesn't fit your worldview. Why should I waste my time presenting the research and sources when you could do it yourself? (if you were not so lazy and incompetent). I think a better course for you would be to read and believe everything Elvis writes. It won't be right but at least you won't have to do any work. Have a nice day, wear your mask when you leave home and remember to take your Vaxx card.[/QUOTE]Another reason why you shouldn't waste your time is because we had this same discussion about a year ago, hashed out thoroughly and with source citations, at least from some. Such are virtually non-existent from ShooBree and Elvis, probably because they are embarrassed of the places where they read. Surely laziness and incompetence play into it as well. But no one should feel compelled to do it all over again for a twerp in a basement in Sweden whose never been to Colombia, and only frequents the free for all threads where his posts won't get deleted.

The bottom line is that "lockdowns" or written laws are meaningless without effective enforcement and compliance. He operates with the assumption that these laws are well enforced and obeyed, a fallacy on it's face as it assumes "facts" not entered into evidence, thus his questions are loaded. Not surprisingly for anyone who has been to Latin America, there's been plenty of weak enforcement and non-compliance there. Other factors also enter the equation, such as population density, modes of transportation, the makeup of households which are often multi-generational in Latin America, food sourcing, gig economies etc. Etc. And this leap from Sweden to Peru is all a red herring to turn attention away from Sweden's poor Covid performance when measured against their Nordic neighbors who represent similar societies. The immigrant (Blacks and Arabs) card has been played but it fails as Denmark and Norway have similar rates of immigration from Africa and the Middle East.

But anyway it's all still here for sure, in this Stupid Shit thread. Look for posts by myself, JJBee62, and some others, going back about a year, maybe a bit later by a few months. The short of it is that masks and social distancing work, hardly surprising for a respiratory illness passed through aerosols.

Happy Thanksgiving everyone.

[QUOTE=JC9999;2630327]It's been a long-time, if ever, that anyone has argued those that have been vaccinated are not contagious. But clearly, if you don't have the virus, you can't spread it. So if 100 people are vaccinated, and 5 get COVID anyways, that is better to reduce transmission than 20 unvaccinated people getting it and walking around. How does that basic concept elude you?[/QUOTE]Because it has already been proven false. Israel was the most vaccinated country on earth a few weeks ago and had higher cases per capita than anyone. I could also add other countries with higher than ever case loads that are heavily vaccinated. On top of that, I do not think you even understand the concept of "if you do not have the virus", what does that means? Infection? Colonization? And how high are the viral counts?

Do you believe the virus went from pangolin to man? If so, then how do you account for transmission from animals to humans given none of them are vaccinated and so many carry the virus? And we are just going to assume this number is zero too? You have not accounted for so many variables in your theory, a theory that has already been disproven.

[QUOTE=JC9999;2630327]Regarding your 3% argument, did you bother to follow your own link? That was just for JnJ. Moderna and Pfizer numbers were stated as being 64% and 50% effective in the same original article. Not as good as anyone would hope, but light years away from your basic premise.[/QUOTE]Say what? Pfizer's vaccine reportedly has gone from 95 to 50 to 39% effective the last time it was checked. You mean you are just following them now?

Let me ask you something JC do you even get what those numbers mean?

[URL]https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099%2821%2900075-X/fulltext[/URL]

Rather, a 95% vaccine efficacy means that instead of 1000 COVID-19 cases in a population of 100 000 without vaccine (from the placebo arm of the abovementioned trials, approximately 1% would be ill with COVID-19 and 99% would not) we would expect 50 cases (9995% of the population is disease-free, at least for 3 months).

End of quote.

Well, that is great. Hell, things are so fucking great with the vaccine that I am going to have to expand these numbers by 20 to make my point. Two million citizens Unvaxxed has 20,000 cases. Vaxxed has 1000, but there is more. Being vaxxed means you are at least 10 X less likely to die. So we have 1000 people. Let's say 1% die. Now we are down to 10. Then you add in that you get a 10 X reduction of being vaxxed and you are down to 1 death. One out of 2 million people die if everyone is vaxxed versus 200 without a vax. Vaccines can prevent 99+% of all deaths. It is a miracle!!

But here is the problem. [URL]https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20211122/us-covid-deaths-2021-surpass-2020-total[/URL].

The number of COVID-19 deaths recorded so far in 2021 has surpassed the total for 2020, according to the latest data from Johns Hopkins University.

Overall, more than 771,000 COVID-19 deaths have been reported in the USA During the pandemic. About 385,000 were reported in 2020, according to CDC data, and more than 386,000 have been reported this year.

Want to explain that?

And maybe this too: Unvaccinated People Are 11 Times More Likely To Die Of COVID-19, New Research Finds.

[URL]https://www.npr.org/2021/09/10/1036023973/covid-19-unvaccinated-deaths-11-times-more-likely[/URL]

[QUOTE=MarquisdeSade1;2629900]Silicon valley aka the land of 3rd world slaves in the bay area.

How do you think big tech gets so rich, by "overpaying" under qualified 3rd worlders to do perfunctory / menial tasks.

But hey you made it to the Land of milk and honey, living 20 guys jammed in a 3 bedroom apt LOL.

Like the poultry and ag workers from Mexico in the USA jajajaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.[/QUOTE]LOL there you go again, talking about a subject you know nothing about. I work in tech in the Bay Area and I am paid very well. Maybe if you stopped being so mad at the world, you'd be able to use that energy towards finding a decent job, then you can finally go live out your fantasies in Medellin lmao.

[QUOTE=ShooBree;2630287]And when will you explain why Peru with their lockdowns have twice as many deaths / capita than Colombia?

For once, be a man and don't change the subject or lie.[/QUOTE]As expected, he behaved like a douche and gave a POS snobby response and did not answer your question. You have to understand he is a Democratic douche and if it is not reported in left wing media, like a douche, he is perplexed. When you do not know the answer, douches will not answer or attack you.

Democratic douches do not know anything about the virus outside of what is in the left wing media, and the answer was not listed there with prominence. The reason Peru had such a high death rate is they had an oxygen shortage. See the link: [URL]https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/05/americas/peru-coronavirus-oxygen-shortages-intl/index.html[/URL].

You have to understand that douches are like going without oxygen themselves if they have to think on their own. All that matters with Covid spread is what Fauci and the "scientists" say: hand washing, social distancing, lockdowns, vaccines ETC. If the "scientists" do not say it, it does not exist.

I half expect Viliany the douche to say, "Since when does oxygen save lives? That sounds like Elvis logic to me".

Please watch this with open eyes and ears.

It explains very well why we are all going to get it, and why we should quit pointing the finger and accept that we have to live w it.

[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7bYeLszh0M[/URL]

[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwrt23SDSFs[/URL]

Maybe 30 minutes in total. 30 minutes very well spent that would settle this debate if we could all sit still and listen with an open mind for a few minutes.

I appreciate the effort JustTK, but you do not understand how the Democratic douches operate.

The DDs here do not care about saving lives. They just want to say that they do a better job saving lives Republicans would.

The DDs here do not care about educated. They want to smugly believe they are superior.

You can tell them the vaccine does not prevent Covid from spreading. You can point to all the links, science, and data you want. They want a smoke screen. They want the ability to create conflict to make people look away from what really scares them, and that is their checks from the government stopping.

When an American pol talks about the supposedly hard working blue collar types, they talk about teachers, firemen, police officers. These employees do not work. No, they serve. That phrase makes me gag.

The reality is these supposedly honorable hard working government types are bankrupting the country.

[URL]https://nypost.com/2018/01/20/thousands-of-retired-ny-teachers-rake-in-more-than-100k-in-pensions/[/URL]

More than 3,000 retirees drew pensions of more than $100,000 in 2017, according to data compiled by the Empire Center for Public Policy.

Forty-six retirees bagged more than $200,000 including Schools Chancellor Carmen Faria, who collected $215,582 on top of her yearly $233,430 city salary.

End of quote.

This is why the USA is done. Our forefathers knew we were done once people could vote themselves money. When you start talking just $50,000 per year for 20 years, that is $1 million per employee, and people are living longer than ever.

Bear in mind this story is from back in 2017. There are numerous states with the same figures and the numbers are worse now.

In addition, those under 65 are also paying for the health care of those older than them.

So the DDs will always try to put a spotlight on anything but them. They will point at the unvaxxed, the Trump supporter, and they will proclaim that money is better spent on them than anyone else.

That is the basis of the point and hate Democratic douche. The goal is the finger is pointed at anyone but them because THEY are the most selfish pigs in the USA right now and their biggest fear is that Republicans take an axe to their payouts.

[QUOTE=BlackThought;2630756]LOL there you go again, talking about a subject you know nothing about. I work in tech in the Bay Area and I am paid very well. Maybe if you stopped being so mad at the world, you'd be able to use that energy towards finding a decent job, then you can finally go live out your fantasies in Medellin lmao.[/QUOTE]I am paid very well LMAO I'm sure they appreciate you think so LMAO.

I'm sorry I struck a nerve again and you had to stop eating buttholes to reply.

I've been to the bay many times over the last several yrs to see it 1st hand.

East bay / south bay / the valley / the city, just about every area except north of the GG bridge.

Now get back to eating CCP wart encrusted buttholes.

[URL]https://www.newsmax.com/finance/streettalk/president-xi-jinging-covid-19-south-african-variant-omicron-world-health-organization-who/2021/11/26/id/1046344/?fbclid=IwAR0SzX9A5yL9SzmpjSCvBp6Qxnj5rj_sluqpx3zU1qr6opmqJTdQiZwEF8E[/URL]

[QUOTE=MarquisdeSade1;2631224]I am paid very well LMAO I'm sure they appreciate you think so LMAO.

I'm sorry I struck a nerve again and you had to stop eating buttholes to reply.

I've been to the bay many times over the last several yrs to see it 1st hand.

East bay / south bay / the valley / the city, just about every area except north of the GG bridge.

Now get back to eating CCP wart encrusted buttholes.

[URL]https://www.newsmax.com/finance/streettalk/president-xi-jinging-covid-19-south-african-variant-omicron-world-health-organization-who/2021/11/26/id/1046344/?fbclid=IwAR0SzX9A5yL9SzmpjSCvBp6Qxnj5rj_sluqpx3zU1qr6opmqJTdQiZwEF8E[/URL][/QUOTE]The oligarchs used to source slaves from Afrika but that ended badly, so they pivoted to Central America for agriculture and Asia for the railroads.

Now its 2021 and not that much has changed they still source Central America for agriculture and Asia for low end tech needs.

That's why they fought our Lord and Savior so hard against Americas great wall, they have 3 billion dirt poor slaves in CCP land and India alone to source.

[URL]https://www.businessinsider.com/china-bridge-collapses-2012-8[/URL]

Lets not even mention the dams hospitals and schools etc that collapse, quintessential cases of you get what you pay for GIGO.

Look at the big tech oligarchs and their wealth, all modern day slaveowners Zuckerburg Dorsey Gates et al.

[QUOTE=Paulie97;2630741]Another reason why you shouldn't waste your time is because we had this same discussion about a year ago, hashed out thoroughly and with source citations, at least from some. Such are virtually non-existent from ShooBree and Elvis, probably because they are embarrassed of the places where they read. Surely laziness and incompetence play into it as well. But no one should feel compelled to do it all over again for a twerp in a basement in Sweden whose never been to Colombia, and only frequents the free for all threads where his posts won't get deleted.

The bottom line is that "lockdowns" or written laws are meaningless without effective enforcement and compliance. He operates with the assumption that these laws are well enforced and obeyed, a fallacy on it's face as it assumes "facts" not entered into evidence, thus his questions are loaded. Not surprisingly for anyone who has been to Latin America, there's been plenty of weak enforcement and non-compliance there. Other factors also enter the equation, such as population density, modes of transportation, the makeup of households which are often multi-generational in Latin America, food sourcing, gig economies etc. Etc. And this leap from Sweden to Peru is all a red herring to turn attention away from Sweden's poor Covid performance when measured against their Nordic neighbors who represent similar societies. The immigrant (Blacks and Arabs) card has been played but it fails as Denmark and Norway have similar rates of immigration from Africa and the Middle East..[/QUOTE]Paulie the Dunning Kruger Effect personified, Paulie the liar, Paulie the deranged weirdo, Paulie the mad stalker, Paulie the basement dweller, Paulie the fact resistent retard, is at it again.

Of course he and his only "friends", aka the other pathetic internet weirdos trolling this site, never produced anything that wasn't easy to rebuttal. All Paulie does is it to lie and fantasize, I guess that is normal for the scared little basement dweller.

Paulie even admits in his own post that I'm right, lockdowns do not work. Hes just too stupid and confused to understand that its irrelevant if it works in theory if it doesn't work in the real world. We have stats on it, the lockdowns failed.

What Paulie fails to understand is that I'm talking about what's actually happening, while he goes on and on with his "could: s" and "if: s". Sorry, but I don't give a fuck about what works in Paulies irrelevant fantasies.

What's needed is an approach based on precision and an understanding of the people's mentality.

The lockdowns failed to do so, it caused more harm than good. The lockdowns only satisfied the scared (aka Paulie) and the need for the incompetent politicians to look like they were doing something.

The actions were based on fear, populism and incompetence.

People don't need laws to adjust their behaviour and they will easily break the laws if they don't agree with them. Just look at the legalization of marijuana or how many that are breaking the speed-limits.

Too bad Paulie the retarded can't read, otherwise he would have seen that I compared Peru with Brazil and Colombia, not Sweden. Another lie from Paulie the deranged weirdo.

Sweden managed this way better than most countries, less deaths / capita than other EU-countries which implemented lockdowns. Paulie the Ugly USAn is pretty much the perfect example of the Ugly American, hes an uneducated loudmouth with preconceived opinions. What he says has nothing to do with reality, it's all just based on his crazy fantasies and prejudice.

I feel sorry for those who got imprisoned by their politicians, I feel even more sorry föare Paulie the deranged basement dweller whose life is so pathetic that he wants to be imprisoned in his home by the politicians.

Its rather distateful to read his ugly racist remarks pretending that all Scandinavian countries are the same. Paulie is a brain dead racist. There are many differences between the countries and it's obvious for anyone who actually wants to know, instead of just pretending like Paulie the deranged racist.

Paulie is extremely selfish and scared of the little Covid-virus, probably because hes a fatso with health problems.

Its funny how that asshole lies about me while we have yet to see him do any post on the actual topic of this site.

[QUOTE=ShooBree;2631314]Paulie the liar, Paulie the deranged weirdo, Paulie the mad stalker, Paulie the basement dweller, Paulie the fact resistent retard, is at it again.

Paulie even admits in his own post that I'm right, lockdowns do not work. Hes just too stupid and confused to understand that its irrelevant if it works in theory if it doesn't work in the real world. We have stats on it, the lockdowns failed.

What Paulie fails to understand is that I'm talking about what's actually happening, while he goes on and on with his "could: s" and "if: s". Sorry, but I don't give a fuck about what works in Paulies irrelevant fantasies.

What's needed is an approach based on precision and an understanding of the people's mentality.

The lockdowns failed to do so, it caused more harm than good. The lockdowns only satisfied the scared (aka Paulie) and the need for the incompetent politicians to look like they were doing something.

The actions were based on fear, populism and incompetence.

People don't need laws to adjust their behaviour and they will easily break the laws if they don't agree with them. Just look at the legalization of marijuana or how many that are breaking the speed-limits.

Too bad Paulie the retarded can't read, otherwise he would have seen that I compared Peru with Brazil and Colombia, not Sweden. Another lie from Paulie the deranged weirdo..[/QUOTE]That is an epic post, SB. Hopefully, Paulie crawls back into his hole and does not climb back out. Thing is the Democratic douches were upset I was not playing with them in the American politics forum, so they had to come over here and stir up shit. The American Politics form resembled the talking heads on MSNBC.

As you said the lockdowns do not work, and I am reading the book "What really happened in Wuhan" and guess who said travel bans do not work? Fauci, yes Lord Fauci.

You are right about the racism part too. Thing about the Democratic douches is they only criticize white people which means they are the biggest racists of all. Hence, all the hatred for Sweden and the Republicans but China? Nah, attacking them is racist. So the CCP, the fuckers who are the most guilty party of all, get a complete pass from the Democratic douches.

I think it really is time we start looking at cutting the checks going out to these douches. They are so fucking bored they have to come onto a hooker board and stir up shit. Have you seen any Republican retards come here and start stirring up shit about abortion or Jesus?

I actually do not like discussing this, but let's be real. When it came to mongering, there is no question that Trump had a much more friendly travel policy than Biden but if you are a Democrat, you are so fucked in the head you cannot even say it let alone think it. That is how fucking deranged these people are.

[QUOTE=ShooBree;2631314]Paulie .......... Paulie......, Paulie......, Paulie......., Paulie......., Paulie......., is at it again..[/B][/QUOTE]Hey Shoe Breezey. You really seem to have a man-crush on Paulie. In your rant you used his name 16 times (unless I missed some others). WoW! You might consider moving on. I don't think he's all that interested.

But I suspect that Elvis and Marquis may be interested.

Oh and as to your last screech of a comment. I've read many posts from Paulie on Medellin and the state of the hobby here. Oddly enough I've never read anything from you. Can you explain that? Have you ever been to Medellin? Can you find it on a map? Can you afford to fly over here?

You know, maybe you should just stick with the [B]Germany FKK Club - Rants and WTF are you talking about and Coronavirus! [/B] section. You seem to be winning the contest for biggest jerk over there.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2631165]This is why the USA is done. Our forefathers knew we were done once people could vote themselves money..[/QUOTE]I love your posts and hate to disagree, but.

What about when turds like GW Bush sent $300 tax rebates to the poor.

And $10 million to turds like Cheney the Kochs Bozo et al?

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2630751] Because it has already been proven false. Israel was the most vaccinated country on earth a few weeks ago and had higher cases per capita than anyone. [/QUOTE]You are mis-stating the data about Israel "a few weeks ago" that was so absurdly misunderstood by those many who can't understand simple math.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2630751] But here is the problem. [URL]https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20211122/us-covid-deaths-2021-surpass-2020-total[/URL].

The number of COVID-19 deaths recorded so far in 2021 has surpassed the total for 2020, according to the latest data from Johns Hopkins University.

Overall, more than 771,000 COVID-19 deaths have been reported in the USA During the pandemic. About 385,000 were reported in 2020, according to CDC data, and more than 386,000 have been reported this year.

Want to explain that?[/QUOTE]Good job at cherry-picking meaningless data. You wouldn't be any further off if you cited the USA having had more Covid deaths than has Barbados, as being truly indicative of anything.

You fail to add the following:

USA 2020: approximately 346,687 Covid deaths.

USA 2021 through Nov 26: approximately 439,700 covid deaths.

USA 2020: approximately 20,037,736 confirmed cases.

USA 2021 through Nov. 26: approximately 28,148,237 confirmed cases (which is 1. 40476 times as many cases as there were in 2020).

So now, if you have any common sense, you multiply 1. 40476 by the number of last year's deaths.

Only then can you fairly compare what is this year's 439,700 YTD deaths to the new number, which is 487,012.

Then magnify it all by so much more of the world having been so much more immobilized during [I]Covid times[/I] in 2020 than has been the case in 2021. (it is impossible to fully represent the fact that a far higher percentage of the stupid people are the ones being so affected {and Infected} in 2021 than was the case in 2020).

Say nothing of the extremely obvious [I]snowball effect[/I] where there were almost zero USA Covid deaths for the first 2 months of 2020, while 2021 has already had 11 solid months of widespread Covid, and yet, with vaccines and masks, the percentages are markedly better in 2021 than they were in 2020.

Furthermore, the up-to-the-day 28-day-moving-averages of Covid deaths are trending downward in the USA even as the newsmedia trumpets all of the talk about the brand new, scary variant from South Africa.

Not to mention that you have no way to fairly compare the difference between Covid having been allowed to rampage the USA fully unchecked (sans masks or vaccines) to what we have now, which is approximately the following:

[B]The stupid people shunning all forms of Covid defense and gathering willy-nilly amongst themselves in pre-Covid stupid form[/B], while at the same time a giant percentage of the rest of the population is wearing masks, and cutting way back on human contact, particularly that which is unnecessary.

One need only sort the USA States by % of Covid infections to clearly understand this statistical reality. Then it might become more clear if you cross-reference that list to the typical Presidential election map.

At the end of the big, multi-faceted equation, the only clear conclusion is that [B]the stupid people will never understand[/B]. (which plagues society today much as it has since the beginning of time).

[QUOTE=Villainy;2631378]Hey Shoe Breezey. You really seem to have a man-crush on Paulie. In your rant you used his name 16 times (unless I missed some others). WoW! You might consider moving on. I don't think he's all that interested.

But I suspect that Elvis and Marquis may be interested.

Oh and as to your last screech of a comment. I've read many posts from Paulie on Medellin and the state of the hobby here. Oddly enough I've never read anything from you. Can you explain that? Have you ever been to Medellin? Can you find it on a map? Can you afford to fly over here?

You know, maybe you should just stick with the [B]Germany FKK Club - Rants and WTF are you talking about and Coronavirus! [/B] section. You seem to be winning the contest for biggest jerk over there.[/QUOTE]Naawww, its so cute to see you trying to defend your boyfriend, Paulie the creepy stalker.

I like that you skipped doing your failed arguments and instead jumped right to the lying and personal attacks. Surely both you and Paulie are both stalkers and mentally challenged, but somehow you manages to be even dumber than him. Its kinda impressive.

If you're too lazy and / or stupid to find my posts you're only making a fool out of yourself.

No offense to Colombia, been there twice, but its a lowbudget place which brings too many trashy USAns. There are better places to go to, or what do you think of Brazil and the UAE? More to see and do, and most importantly less US trash. I've also just recently discovered this lowkey, USAn free mongering destination. Its perfect May to October, but you probably can't even afford the flight to get there.

I'm still waiting for you to share the source of how "Those higher paying jobs that you are crowing about are largely with American companies". You really know how to make yourself look stupid.

Around 100% of your posts consists of questions, lies, personal attacks and irrelevant blablabla.

You're an pathetic old geezer who belongs in a nursing home. Or insane asylum.

[QUOTE=Villainy;2630579]Hillary Clinton is one of the smartest people that ever ran for President of the US. So why did she lose? She is unattractive and extremely unlikeable. In American politics smarts can not overcome being generally unattractive and unlikeable.[/QUOTE]Does Villany the vagina have a real vagina or a backdoor substitute?

What kind of pus oozing feminist would write on a hooker board that Hillary is the sooper smartest ever ever LMAO are you fucking kidding me.

He lost because he's dumb, like you.

He had the global media at her back 24/7 attacking our Lord and Savior and still lost.

He lost to the most unpopular opponent ever because he's a low IQ mental midget.

Hes never had a real job, he married a redneck from the south, because nobody from Chicago would ever want him.

Does Hillary have XY or XX?

Lets see Bubba got him a job at the Rose Law Firm where he defended a child molester, is that why you admire Hillary?

Other than that, that was just another ghost payroll gig.

Sen from NY LOL look who they have now that low IQ Kirsten G from cow shit to dog shit.

Sec of State under the other guy she lost to Barry Hussein ROTFLMFAO!

[QUOTE=Villainy;2631378]Hey Shoe Breezey. You really seem to have a man-crush on Paulie. In your rant you used his name 16 times (unless I missed some others). WoW! You might consider moving on. I don't think he's all that interested.

But I suspect that Elvis and Marquis may be interested.

Oh and as to your last screech of a comment. I've read many posts from Paulie on Medellin and the state of the hobby here. Oddly enough I've never read anything from you. Can you explain that? Have you ever been to Medellin? Can you find it on a map? Can you afford to fly over here?

You know, maybe you should just stick with the [B]Germany FKK Club - Rants and WTF are you talking about and Coronavirus! [/B] section. You seem to be winning the contest for biggest jerk over there.[/QUOTE]I responded to the Euro twerp for about six months, which was generous of me given that he only spins fallacies and has no ability to engage in genuine debate. I can say the same for Elvis, thus I also for the most part stopped bothering with his posts. But looks like I certainly kicked the beehive and good, as the gang is all here, JustTK, Marquis de Twat, Elvis, Shoo Swede, but where is Pedro Morales? The tool that talks about Big Mac eaters in the states even though Europe is littered with Mickey DS franchises.

But yea Covid is a respiratory illness passed through aerosols thus masks and social distancing hinder the spread, duh. As does staying out of crowded indoors environments full of maskless people, duh. Is amazing all the gymnastics right wing nut media will go through to try and obfuscate these obvious but inconvenient facts. Hey no one is enjoying this pandemic, but do like most of the rest of us, grow a pair and accept it for what it is.

BTW has anyone met any of these guys on the ground in Medellin? I speak of JustTK, Marquis de Twat, Elvis, Shoo Bree or Pedro? De Twat has been caught in some lies so we know he's never been to Colombia. As to the rest, who knows? There's plenty enough information posted in ISG for someone to use to pretend they have been to some of these countries.

[QUOTE=SawZonaNorte;2631496]You are mis-stating the data about Israel "a few weeks ago" that was so absurdly misunderstood by those many who can't understand simple math.

Good job at cherry-picking meaningless data. You wouldn't be any further off if you cited the USA having had more Covid deaths than has Barbados, as being truly indicative of anything.

You fail to add the following:

USA 2020: approximately 346,687 Covid deaths.

USA 2021 through Nov 26: approximately 439,700 covid deaths.

USA 2020: approximately 20,037,736 confirmed cases.

USA 2021 through Nov. 26: approximately 28,148,237 confirmed cases (which is 1. 40476 times as many cases as there were in 2020)...[/QUOTE]You corrected a series of non-sequiturs from the logical fallacy specialist, Elvis, who spends his days here twisting himself in knots. He's a mediocre tool of right wing nut propaganda and doesn't even know it.

[URL]https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/logicalfallacies/Non-Sequitur[/URL]

As to your final point, here it is.

[URL]https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109004/coronavirus-covid19-cases-rate-us-americans-by-state/[/URL]

[QUOTE=Paulie97;2631689]I responded to the Euro twerp for about six months, which was generous of me given that he only spins fallacies and has no ability to engage in genuine debate. I can say the same for Elvis, thus I also for the most part stopped bothering with his posts. But looks like I certainly kicked the beehive and good, as the gang is all here, JustTK, Marquis de Twat, Elvis, Shoo Swede, but where is Pedro Morales? The tool that talks about Big Mac eaters in the states even though Europe is littered with Mickey DS franchises.

But yea Covid is a respiratory illness passed through aerosols thus masks and social distancing hinder the spread, duh. As does staying out of crowded indoors environments full of maskless people, duh. Is amazing all the gymnastics right wing nut media will go through to try and obfuscate these obvious but inconvenient facts. Hey no one is enjoying this pandemic, but do like most of the rest of us, grow a pair and accept it for what it is.

BTW has anyone met any of these guys on the ground in Medellin? I speak of JustTK, Marquis de Twat, Elvis, Shoo Bree or Pedro? De Twat has been caught in some lies so we know he's never been to Colombia. As to the rest, who knows? There's plenty enough information posted in ISG for someone to use to pretend they have been to some of these countries.[/QUOTE]We all know that Paulie is a compulsive liar and fantasist. He will ignore all the facts presented against his fictitious lies since hes an fact resistant egomaniac and then pretend as if he wasn't disproved for the millionth time.

We all know that Paulie is still hiding in the basement, terrified of Covid-19. He's a loser that never travelled anywhere and even less contributed with anything of value to this forum.

[QUOTE=Paulie97;2631689]I responded to the Euro twerp for about six months, which was generous of me given that he only spins fallacies and has no ability to engage in genuine debate. I can say the same for Elvis, thus I also for the most part stopped bothering with his posts. But looks like I certainly kicked the beehive and good, as the gang is all here, JustTK, Marquis de Twat, Elvis, Shoo Swede, but where is Pedro Morales? The tool that talks about Big Mac eaters in the states even though Europe is littered with Mickey DS franchises.

But yea Covid is a respiratory illness passed through aerosols thus masks and social distancing hinder the spread, duh. As does staying out of crowded indoors environments full of maskless people, duh. Is amazing all the gymnastics right wing nut media will go through to try and obfuscate these obvious but inconvenient facts. Hey no one is enjoying this pandemic, but do like most of the rest of us, grow a pair and accept it for what it is.

BTW has anyone met any of these guys on the ground in Medellin? I speak of JustTK, Marquis de Twat, Elvis, Shoo Bree or Pedro? De Twat has been caught in some lies so we know he's never been to Colombia. As to the rest, who knows? There's plenty enough information posted in ISG for someone to use to pretend they have been to some of these countries.[/QUOTE][URL]https://amgreatness.com/2021/10/26/the-left-is-everything-they-hate/[/URL]

Stop projecting, I don't lie, lying is for sick losers.

Ala Paulie IMing me to avoid MDE so I don't get kidnapped for ransom or held indefinitely to do daily ATM withdrawals.

You said I was caught in lies? Well you're a lying POS because I don't lie.

You "brag" to be a door to door grifter conning senior citizens in veteran communities of their last extra pennnies.

You are scum of the earth and you try to pull down others, sorry dirtbag.

You're cover has been blown, you are a criminal and I'm guessing an Ex-con.

[QUOTE=SawZonaNorte;2631496]You are mis-stating the data about Israel "a few weeks ago" that was so absurdly misunderstood by those many who can't understand simple math.[/QUOTE][URL]https://www.aa.com.tr/en/latest-on-coronavirus-outbreak/israel-leads-world-in-average-of-new-daily-covid-cases-per-capita-study/2352018[/URL]

Israel recorded the highest number of coronavirus cases per capita over the past week, according to data published Tuesday by Oxford University Press. The country overtook Montenegro and Georgia with an average of 1,013 new daily cases per million people over a week, figures by Our World in Data showed.

What the hell does math have to do with that?

[QUOTE=SawZonaNorte;2631496]You fail to add the following:

USA 2020: approximately 346,687 Covid deaths.

USA 2021 through Nov 26: approximately 439,700 covid deaths.

USA 2020: approximately 20,037,736 confirmed cases.

USA 2021 through Nov. 26: approximately 28,148,237 confirmed cases (which is 1. 40476 times as many cases as there were in 2020)..[/QUOTE]I am not quite sure what your point is. It looks to me like you are a Democratic douche trying to prove me wrong. The irony is your presentation of the data supports the point that I was trying to make namely that vaccines are not that effective. If the vaccine worked, cases and deaths in 2021 should have been down not up.

[QUOTE=SawZonaNorte;2631496]At the end of the big, multi-faceted equation, the only clear conclusion is that the stupid people will never understand. (which plagues society today much as it has since the beginning of time).[/QUOTE]I think what you are trying to say is that if not for "the stupid people" which I guess means Republicans and their noncompliance the pandemic would be over by now.

Thing is that if you are doing forecasting models and do not account for "stupid people" or noncompliance, you yourself are stupid.

So you might want to turn down that MSNBC, get the Washington Post from your face, and try something different like you know writing coherent sentences that actually have a point.

[QUOTE=SawZonaNorte;2631496]Good job at cherry-picking meaningless data. You wouldn't be any further off if you cited the USA having had more Covid deaths than has Barbados, as being truly indicative of anything.

You fail to add the following:

USA 2020: approximately 346,687 Covid deaths.

USA 2021 through Nov 26: approximately 439,700 covid deaths.

USA 2020: approximately 20,037,736 confirmed cases.

USA 2021 through Nov. 26: approximately 28,148,237 confirmed cases (which is 1. 40476 times as many cases as there were in 2020).

So now, if you have any common sense, you multiply 1. 40476 by the number of last year's deaths.

Only then can you fairly compare what is this year's 439,700 YTD deaths to the new number, which is 487,012. ...[/QUOTE]You epitomize the saying "figures don't lie, but liars figure". With your fuzzy logic, having more confirmed cases is making progress. I will counter that the reason for the decrease in ratio of deaths to cases is because of medical advancements in treatments and weakening of the virus variants. If the number of cases had stayed the same or decreased, look at how many fewer deaths we would have had this year. In one respect, having more cases is a good thing because that means more people are becoming immune. But you are probably of the mindset that the only immunization is the shot.

[QUOTE=FunLuvr;2632021]You epitomize the saying "figures don't lie, but liars figure". With your fuzzy logic, having more confirmed cases is making progress. I will counter that the reason for the decrease in ratio of deaths to cases is because of medical advancements in treatments and weakening of the virus variants. If the number of cases had stayed the same or decreased, look at how many fewer deaths we would have had this year. In one respect, having more cases is a good thing because that means more people are becoming immune. But you are probably of the mindset that the only immunization is the shot.[/QUOTE]The liar and the fuzzy one here is you, as from the beginning you've opposed all Covid mitigation measures. You've also claimed without proof that US hospitals were cooking Covid numbers to rip off Medicare, implying it's all a hoax. In a word you've bought the whole right wing nut narrative each step of the way and have the t-shirt to prove it.

The poster's logic was clear, as Elvis attempted to downplay the usefulness of mitigation measures by noting the increase in USA Covid deaths in 2021 over 2020. It was then shown that case numbers have also increased. Other variables were indicated, including the fact that the pandemic didn't get going until late March of 2020, plus there has been far more mobility among the population in 2021. As to his final point, red states lead the way in confirmed cases per 100 K population since the start of the pandemic, so you and your other Trump buttboys with your lack of cooperation are a big part of the problem.

[URL]https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109004/coronavirus-covid19-cases-rate-us-americans-by-state/[/URL]

Masks and social distancing work, as does avoiding indoor environments with crowds of people not wearing masks. For after all, it's a respiratory disease passed through aerosols. Duh. Why do you insist on making a fool of yourself avoiding the obvious?

SawZonaNorte made another good point, that it's impossible to know how many cases and deaths we would have seen thus far without mitigation measures and the many Americans who have chosen to comply and use masks and social distance. Given what we know about how the disease is spread, plus laboratory studies showing the efficacy of masks, the numbers would surely be much higher. So there's another clear point from SawZonaNorte that Funluvr, in his eagerness to preserve his worldview, chose to ignore.

[QUOTE=FunLuvr;2632021]You epitomize the saying "figures don't lie, but liars figure". With your fuzzy logic, having more confirmed cases is making progress. I will counter that the reason for the decrease in ratio of deaths to cases is because of medical advancements in treatments and weakening of the virus variants.[/QUOTE]One cannot even label it as cherry picking, bcos the evidence he presented does not even support his case. Q estupido! As you say, there are so many variables that he just disregards that his claim has more holes than a slice of Gouda. All the arguments you presented, plus greater immunity in the public at large, changes in the process of reporting of cases, changes in attitudes to report, variations in excess deaths. Really, any stat based on case numbers is just so flimsy as to be laughable.

[QUOTE=MarquisdeSade1;2631971][URL]https://amgreatness.com/2021/10/26/the-left-is-everything-they-hate/[/URL]

Stop projecting, I don't lie, lying is for sick losers.

Ala Paulie IMing me to avoid MDE so I don't get kidnapped for ransom or held indefinitely to do daily ATM withdrawals.

You said I was caught in lies? Well you're a lying POS because I don't lie.

You "brag" to be a door to door grifter conning senior citizens in veteran communities of their last extra pennnies.

You are scum of the earth and you try to pull down others, sorry dirtbag.

You're cover has been blown, you are a criminal and I'm guessing an Ex-con.[/QUOTE]You steal photos from blogs. You dodge and deflect when asked to prove you've Mongered in places you claim by showing stamps on your passport. You claim to have met several ISG mongers, yet nobody can confirm. Who are you fooling? Lolol.

[QUOTE=FunLuvr;2632021]You epitomize the saying "figures don't lie, but liars figure". With your fuzzy logic, having more confirmed cases is making progress. I will counter that the reason for the decrease in ratio of deaths to cases is because of medical advancements in treatments and weakening of the virus variants. If the number of cases had stayed the same or decreased, look at how many fewer deaths we would have had this year.[/QUOTE]Great post FL! So if the vaccine lived up to its 95% efficacy and seeing as how we are about 60% vaccinated, the number of cases should have gone from about 20 million to about 10 million. Furthermore, as people were vaccinated, the number of cases should have gone down in direct correlation to how many were vaccinated, I. E. Fewer cases in October than March. That did not happen.

And the most vaccinated countries in the world (Israel, Ireland, and Gibraltar) should have seen near complete eradication of the virus. Instead they have all dealt with new severe outbreaks requiring lockdowns.

So what did Fauci and the "scientists" do? The same thing the "scientists" who spoke of global warming did. They changed the name. For global warming, it was "scientists" changing the name to climate change when the earth quit heating up and here the focus was not on percent effectiveness with stopping new cases but preventing death and hospitalization. You are 11 X less likely to die if vaccinated they say.

I do not get that last part because if we have more deaths in 2021 and over half the population is vaccinated and the death rates are higher in 2021, the only way those numbers add up is if the unvaccinated had to deal with a virus like 11 X more potent right?

What we paid for and what we were sold on were the vaccines were 95% effective at preventing new cases. Well, they were not 95 nor 60 nor 35% effective, they were 0% effective. And I do not think you can dismiss the possibility they were negative. The vaccine is supposed to affect the course of the virus. Well, who says it cannot do that in a negative fashion? Gibraltar is 99% vaccinated and they are dealing with an outbreak so bad they had to shut down.

Thing is that the vaccine worked great for the first 3 or so months after it was made available and then it failed. Now it will be interesting to see if that Israeli data showing natural immunity is so much better will hold true in the next few years. If it is, things could be much worse for the vaccinated who were never infected.

Can you imagine if the vaccine manufacturers could be sued though? We paid billions for a vaccine that did not work as advertised. There were no reduction in cases at all and yet the Democratic douches keep falling all over themselves insisting that the vaccine prevents transmission. Unfucking real!

"Rate of coronavirus (COVID-19) cases in the United States as of November 26,2021, by state (per 100,000 people). ".

[URL]https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109004/coronavirus-covid19-cases-rate-us-americans-by-state/[/URL]

Taking up the head, with few exceptions is your strong red states. Taking the up the tail with very few exceptions is your super leftist states. Has Fox, Newsmax, or any aspiring right wingnuts on Youtube told you this? Have they, or will they ever make you aware of this data? No they are only going to tell you about a few red states up north that are currently experiencing an expected surge due to cold weather and more indoor activity, while skipping the big picture which is most damning to them, their people, and their lies and slanted reporting. Anyway here's three screen shots showing the data. Yea masks, social distancing, and vaccines help a lot. Yes, compliance with the recommendations of virtually every contagious diseases specialist (not opthamologists) has born fruit. Now sing, dance, twist yourselves in knots. This discussion is over as far as I'm concerned.

[QUOTE=Paulie97;2632179]Taking up the head, with few exceptions is your strong red states. Taking the up the tail with very few exceptions is your super leftist states. Has Fox, Newsmax, or any aspiring right wingnuts on Youtube told you this? Have they, or will they ever make you aware of this data? No they are only going to tell you about a few red states up north that are currently experiencing an expected surge due to cold weather and more indoor activity, while skipping the big picture which is most damning to them, their people, and their lies and slanted reporting. Anyway here's three screen shots showing the data. Yea masks, social distancing, and vaccines help a lot. Yes, compliance with the recommendations of virtually every contagious diseases specialist (not opthamologists) has born fruit. Now sing, dance, twist yourselves in knots. This discussion is over as far as I'm concerned.[/QUOTE]LOL. There was never a discussion with you. All it takes is to expand the data to show you are full of shit. Here you go douche: [URL]https://www.bbc.com/news/world-51235105[/URL].

Look at the graphs. Europe is in a massive upswing while SA, and North America, the Middle East, and Asia are down. Why is that douche? A Republican convention in Europe? Europeans quit using masks? And why the down trend in South America after they loosened up?

"I am not answering you Elvis." Well how about answering the data douche?

Look at world wide cases. Despite the vaccine, social distancing, and masks ETC, the TOTAL number of world cases has gone from 84 million at the end of 2020 to 258 million. That is an increase of 174 million so 2021 has more than double the number of cases as 2020, and we are not even done with this year yet. This data is what you and every contagious disease specialist define as "bearing fruit"? You are so fucking stupid you are running around declaring victory when it is clear you do not know what the fuck you are talking about. If you and the contagious disease specialists are proud of these numbers, you should be hung.

So that was the goal of the global lockdowns, a doubling of cases in 2021? Yeesh. We destroyed the world economy for nothing.

Okay, douche, put your money where your mouth is: how many cases will there be in 2022, and what do you define as success? Show everyone how gutless you are and do not answer the question.

Here's something on the growing blue / red divide in vaccination status. See attachments. It's very clear who the problem is here, and what their problem is, irrespective of what state they happen to live in.

[URL]https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/poll-finding/importance-of-partisanship-predicting-vaccination-status/[/URL]

Their heads are implanted up in their colons watching Fox and Newsmax.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2632094]And the most vaccinated countries in the world (Israel, Ireland, and Gibraltar) should have seen near complete eradication of the virus. Instead they have all dealt with new severe outbreaks requiring lockdowns.[/QUOTE]Israel and Ireland are the most vaccinated countries in the world? Simply not even close to being true.

[URL]https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations[/URL] This is just one source, the rest that I looked at all say the same thing.

Cuba is far more heavily vaccinated than Ireland or Israel (just to give one example).

I agree Gibraltar is heavily vaccinated but sheesh there are only 33,000 people living there. Hell, Elvis my family has more cousins than that.

I understand you have your looney tunes arguments to make and facts and statistics just get in the way. So you make up your own.

I know. I know. I must be a Democratic douche. Afterall I believe in math, statistics and science; and I don't believe in the latest ravings from the Elvis school of make-believe.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2632094]Great post FL! So if the vaccine lived up to its 95% efficacy and seeing as how we are about 60% vaccinated, the number of cases should have gone from about 20 million to about 10 million. Furthermore, as people were vaccinated, the number of cases should have gone down in direct correlation to how many were vaccinated, I. E. Fewer cases in October than March. That did not happen.

And the most vaccinated countries in the world (Israel, Ireland, and Gibraltar) should have seen near complete eradication of the virus. Instead they have all dealt with new severe outbreaks requiring lockdowns.

So what did Fauci and the "scientists" do? The same thing the "scientists" who spoke of global warming did. They changed the name. For global warming, it was "scientists" changing the name to climate change when the earth quit heating up and here the focus was not on percent effectiveness with stopping new cases but preventing death and hospitalization. You are 11 X less likely to die if vaccinated they say.

I do not get that last part because if we have more deaths in 2021 and over half the population is vaccinated and the death rates are higher in 2021, the only way those numbers add up is if the unvaccinated had to deal with a virus like 11 X more potent right?..[/QUOTE]Everyone on this board knows that you are an anti-science, anti-vax, anti-everything RethugliKKKan.

You were probably cheering when, at one of the former guy's post-election-loss propaganda events, he was booed when he suggested to the "crowd" that they get vaccinated. 74 million Americans were duped in 2020 and they are too ignorant to realize it.

Patience folks. Your new jabs are coming soon.

[URL]https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/moderna-ceo-says-vaccines-likely-less-effective-against-omicron-ft-2021-11-30/[/URL]

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2632094]So what did Fauci and the "scientists" do? The same thing the "scientists" who spoke of global warming did. They changed the name. For global warming, it was "scientists" changing the name to climate change when the earth quit heating up[/QUOTE]As usual, you are flat out wrong.

Unfortunately the earth's temperature continues to rise.

What fake news reports the earth has stopped heating up?

The truth is that our planet is still getting warmer.

IPCC climate report: Earth is warmer than it's been in 125,000 years.

[URL]https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02179-1[/URL]

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2632229]LOL. There was never a discussion with you. All it takes is to expand the data to show you are full of shit. Here you go douche: [URL]https://www.bbc.com/news/world-51235105[/URL].

Look at the graphs. Europe is in a massive upswing while SA, and North America, the Middle East, and Asia are down. Why is that douche? A Republican convention in Europe? Europeans quit using masks? And why the down trend in South America after they loosened up?

"I am not answering you Elvis." Well how about answering the data douche?

Look at world wide cases. Despite the vaccine, social distancing, and masks ETC, the TOTAL number of world cases has gone from 84 million at the end of 2020 to 258 million. That is an increase of 174 million so 2021 has more than double the number of cases as 2020, and we are not even done with this year yet. This data is what you and every contagious disease specialist define as "bearing fruit"? You are so fucking stupid you are running around declaring victory when it is clear you do not know what the fuck you are talking about. If you and the contagious disease specialists are proud of these numbers, you should be hung.

So that was the goal of the global lockdowns, a doubling of cases in 2021? Yeesh. We destroyed the world economy for nothing.

Okay, douche, put your money where your mouth is: how many cases will there be in 2022, and what do you define as success? Show everyone how gutless you are and do not answer the question.[/QUOTE]How much of the global spread of the CCP plague is attributable to the "PPE" they are selling? ROTFLMFAO.

[URL]https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/30/health/covid-masks-counterfeit-fake.html?fbclid=IwAR3HATr69mA4yPARp_NxNfKuRkMrUkisE4u4IEphwct2qDEm0d-l8_JOc5Y[/URL]

Not unlike the vax they were selling which was made from sewer water.

[QUOTE=MarquisdeSade1;2632523]How much of the global spread of the CCP plague is attributable to the "PPE" they are selling? ROTFLMFAO.
[URL]https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/30/health/covid-masks-counterfeit-fake.html?fbclid=IwAR3HATr69mA4yPARp_NxNfKuRkMrUkisE4u4IEphwct2qDEm0d-l8_JOc5Y[/URL]
[/QUOTE]When are you going to realise that no one can read your linked articles? Who TF would make a subsrcription to the NYT?

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2632094]Great post FL! So if the vaccine lived up to its 95% efficacy and seeing as how we are about 60% vaccinated, the number of cases should have gone from about 20 million to about 10 million. Furthermore, as people were vaccinated, the number of cases should have gone down in direct correlation to how many were vaccinated, I. E. Fewer cases in October than March. That did not happen.

And the most vaccinated countries in the world (Israel, Ireland, and Gibraltar) should have seen near complete eradication of the virus. Instead they have all dealt with new severe outbreaks requiring lockdowns.

So what did Fauci and the "scientists" do? The same thing the "scientists" who spoke of global warming did. They changed the name. For global warming, it was "scientists" changing the name to climate change when the earth quit heating up and here the focus was not on percent effectiveness with stopping new cases but preventing death and hospitalization. You are 11 X less likely to die if vaccinated they say.

I do not get that last part because if we have more deaths in 2021 and over half the population is vaccinated and the death rates are higher in 2021, the only way those numbers add up is if the unvaccinated had to deal with a virus like 11 X more potent right?[/QUOTE]In the late 70's the media was screaming that the "scientists" were sounding the alarm that the next ice age was 10-20 yrs away.

Yes ice age? ROTFLMAO.

I am no expert on "climate science" but I can easily see it is a political issue.

With a large anti capitalism segment and I suspect a huge campaign from the CCP to con western countries.

To pass stricter environmental laws, so that it will be easier for everyone just to move all global manufacturing to lawless CCP land.

Politics and science don't mix well.

Case in point, the CCP plague of 2019.

[QUOTE=Villainy;2632267]Israel and Ireland are the most vaccinated countries in the world? Simply not even close to being true.[/QUOTE]Your "source" did not even list those countries, and your list contains a number of heavily vaccinated countries in Europe getting pounded with Covid right now.

Let's get back to the question at hand. The cases of Covid have doubled in 2021 despite the vaccine. How many do you project in 2022 and how would you define success?

The thing we know about you douches is that no matter what the result is, you will bash Republicans as the cause of disease and death and praise "scientists" no matter what the data shows.

[QUOTE=Villainy;2632267]Afterall I believe in math, statistics and science; and I don't believe in the latest ravings from the Elvis school of make-believe.[/QUOTE]No, you do not. You use "scientists" to advance your political agenda and ignore data when it does not suit you.

I am not going to get into a debate on global warming / climate change. What I will say is that the theory is that rising CO2 leads to higher temperatures. Again, just like if the vaccine worked, we would see a linear decline in cases. The same should go with CO2 and temperature, higher CO2 leads to higher temps but when the data does not fit, you see all the bullshit excuses.

[URL]https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/features/GISSTemperature/giss_temperature4.php[/URL]

Of greater concern to Hansen than global warming skeptics is the problem of global warming itself. If greenhouse gases are to blame then why did Earth's average temperature cool from 1940-1970? And why has the rate of global warming accelerated since 1978? Hansen's answers to these questions brought him full circle to where he began his investigation more than 40 years ago.

"I think the cooling that Earth experienced through the middle of the twentieth century was due in part to natural variability," he said. "But there's another factor made by humans which probably contributed, and could even be the dominant cause: aerosols."

[URL]https://www.winterwatch.net/2021/02/global-warming-industry-is-hiding-impending-cold-sun-dark-winter-phase/[/URL]

The biggest driver of the Earth's climate is the Sun, not carbon emissions. The Sun controls 99.5% of climate, not trace CO2.

Climatologists have also theorized that Sun-spot activity follows cyclical trends. Right now, Sun-spot activity is very diminished and diminishing. This will rapidly manifest as colder weather. Furthermore, historic cyclical temperature patterns indicate the Earth is on schedule for a 30-years cooling trend, which will likely include four extreme troughs with virtually no Sun-spot activity, or cold so extreme that it's as though your thermostat shuts down in the winter.

[URL]https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/capital-weather-gang/wp/2018/04/26/global-temperatures-have-cooled-since-2016-heres-why-thats-normal/[/URL]

The current cooling episode is mostly the result of a reversal of waters in the Tropical Pacific, which can modulate global temperature. Since the Pacific Ocean is our largest global body of water, what it does makes a big difference on global climate. Temperature anomalies hit record peaks in 2016 but have been sliding since then.

So after pounding home that rising CO2 leads to rising temperatures, we see the "scientists" reach for straws when the data does not go their way. The climate is totally dependent on CO2 levels except for natural variability, aerosols, the Pacific Ocean, and this just in, the sun.

The irony is that I am using your data and your "scientists" excuses when the data does not go their way. What else is there to do but just personally attack me and get involved in partisan politics?

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2632094]Great post FL! So if the vaccine lived up to its 95% efficacy and seeing as how we are about 60% vaccinated, the number of cases should have gone from about 20 million to about 10 million. Furthermore, as people were vaccinated, the number of cases should have gone down in direct correlation to how many were vaccinated, I. E. Fewer cases in October than March. That did not happen.

And the most vaccinated countries in the world (Israel, Ireland, and Gibraltar) should have seen near complete eradication of the virus. Instead they have all dealt with new severe outbreaks requiring lockdowns.

So what did Fauci and the "scientists" do? The same thing the "scientists" who spoke of global warming did. They changed the name. For global warming, it was "scientists" changing the name to climate change when the earth quit heating up and here the focus was not on percent effectiveness with stopping new cases but preventing death and hospitalization. You are 11 X less likely to die if vaccinated they say.

I do not get that last part because if we have more deaths in 2021 and over half the population is vaccinated and the death rates are higher in 2021, the only way those numbers add up is if the unvaccinated had to deal with a virus like 11 X more potent right?.[/QUOTE]No bueno.

[URL]https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/covid-19-omicron-quarantine-variant/2021/11/30/id/1046827/[/URL]

[URL]https://www.newsmax.com/newsmax-tv/peter-navarro-vaccine-mandates-covid-19-pandemic/2021/11/30/id/1046826/[/URL]

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2632718]Your "source" did not even list those countries, and your list contains a number of heavily vaccinated countries in Europe getting pounded with Covid right now.[/QUOTE][URL]https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations[/URL]

Seriously dude. I think most 3rd graders could figure out how to use the page. Here let me explain it so that even an 'Elvis' can understand it. You look at the chart. If you see a country is missing and you want to look at their information, you go down the list of countries and check the box and 'low and behold' it will mysteriously appear along with the data. I realize that is very complicated for someone from the 'Elvis School of Analysis'. It's a lot easier to just make up whatever you need to support your make-believe arguments.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2632718]No, you do not. You use "scientists" to advance your political agenda and ignore data when it does not suit you.

I am not going to get into a debate on global warming / climate change. [/QUOTE][B] All evidence to the contrary....given what follows [/B]

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2632718]What I will say is that the theory is that rising CO2 leads to higher temperatures. Again, just like if the vaccine worked, we would see a linear decline in cases. The same should go with CO2 and temperature, higher CO2 leads to higher temps but when the data does not fit, you see all the bullshit excuses.

[URL]https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/features/GISSTemperature/giss_temperature4.php[/URL]

Of greater concern to Hansen than global warming skeptics is the problem of global warming itself..[/QUOTE]Gee and foolish me. I thought you were only an expert on the Corona Virus and Epidemiology and Statistical Analysis. Little did I know you are an expert on Environmental Science too. Now if you could just learn to add and subtract and read. Maybe some of us would stop laughing at your hair-brained theories.

[QUOTE=Queens35;2632845]So is everybody getting their vaccines now that they will probably be required? It's not official yet, but the writing is on the wall, that's where this thing is heading.

If not, you're running out of places that don't require vaccines.

Would you quit the hobby over it?

Just curious about people's viewpoints on this.[/QUOTE]My viewpoint is that you do not need a vaccine; you only need a vaccine card. Besides, they have said that the vaccine does not do much for the new strain, so what is the point?

So you are telling people to purchase fake documents and break laws individual countries have enacted to try to safeguard their populations? I normally am on the same page as you but not this one. This isn't getting a fake drivers license on Khao San road, this is potential illness or worse, and not just for the individual breaking said laws.

As for "they" saying vaccines are ineffective against the new strain. Well I keep a fairly keen eye out for developments and so far the jury is out on that. It may well turn out to be true but so far it falls under "misinformation", in other words bullshit.

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2632859]My viewpoint is that you do not need a vaccine; you only need a vaccine card. Besides, they have said that the vaccine does not do much for the new strain, so what is the point?[/QUOTE]Actually it may turn out that if your going to get COVID, then Omicron is the strain to get, as there are reports surfacing that the symptoms are very mild for those catching that strain. Yet it's all speculation right now, so saying the current vaccines don't work well against it, or what I just stated, is all pure conjecture at this point.

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2632859]My viewpoint is that you do not need a vaccine; you only need a vaccine card. Besides, they have said that the vaccine does not do much for the new strain, so what is the point?[/QUOTE][URL]https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-biontech-boss-says-dont-freak-out-about-omicron-as-pfizer-vaccine-likely-to-protect-against-severe-disease-from-variant-12483481[/URL]

[QUOTE=Paulie97;2632179]"Rate of coronavirus (COVID-19) cases in the United States as of November 26,2021, by state (per 100,000 people). ".

[URL]https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109004/coronavirus-covid19-cases-rate-us-americans-by-state/[/URL]

Taking up the head, with few exceptions is your strong red states. Taking the up the tail with very few exceptions is your super leftist states. Has Fox, Newsmax, or any aspiring right wingnuts on Youtube told you this? Have they, or will they ever make you aware of this data? No they are only going to tell you about a few red states up north that are currently experiencing an expected surge due to cold weather and more indoor activity, while skipping the big picture which is most damning to them, their people, and their lies and slanted reporting. Anyway here's three screen shots showing the data. Yea masks, social distancing, and vaccines help a lot. Yes, compliance with the recommendations of virtually every contagious diseases specialist (not opthamologists) has born fruit. Now sing, dance, twist yourselves in knots. This discussion is over as far as I'm concerned.[/QUOTE]Screen Shot 2021-11-30 at 7. 02.36 PM. Jpg (126.9 KB).

This is from Worldometer. If you go there just click on the USA and then sort by cases by 1,000,000 persons to get a fair comparison. Guess what? Paulie was right and Elvis? Well Elvis is still in denial.

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2632859]My viewpoint is that you do not need a vaccine; you only need a vaccine card. Besides, they have said that the vaccine does not do much for the new strain, so what is the point?[/QUOTE]Mr. E,

I respect your posts concerning the hobby on this board and others (Pattaya, Tijuana, etc.) but until you say that your an epidemiologist or have a background in genetic sequencing of viruses, IMHO, you should leave it to the experts. Those experts would not include you, me, or virtually anyone else on the board.

Actually, based on this Reuters report, vaccines are effective against the new Omicron strain based on early, preliminary results. And as others have pointed out, not one expert has said the vaccines are not effective. I haven't seen a report where any expert has made a claim. My suggestion to all. Keep a level head, get vaccinated, and enjoy the women of Medellin to the fullest, and let's leave the talk about vaccine effectiveness to people who actually know what they're talking about.

[URL]https://www.yahoo.com/news/omicron-present-five-nine-south-170208276.html[/URL]

[QUOTE=SouthEaster;2632870]So you are telling people to purchase fake documents and break laws individual countries have enacted to try to safeguard their populations? I normally am on the same page as you but not this one. This isn't getting a fake drivers license on Khao San road, this is potential illness or worse, and not just for the individual breaking said laws.[/quote]Catch 22. Do you follow laws which have the propensity to change? Or do you do what you have to do? Reminds me when I interviewed for CIA officer and they asked a similar question. Well we all know all the things those guys do are not on the up and up, but are they to keep it to themselves? Are they to admit it to superiors? Are they going to hire someone that will straight up admit they will do what it takes, or someone that is adamant they will not go where the law does not allow?

[QUOTE=SouthEaster;2632870]As for "they" saying vaccines are ineffective against the new strain. Well I keep a fairly keen eye out for developments and so far the jury is out on that. It may well turn out to be true but so far it falls under "misinformation", in other words bullshit.[/QUOTE]Maybe you are overdue for lasik. Those keen eyes must have missed this one. Sure you do not have to believe me, but would you believe the boss of the vaccine company? Some thought he was full of shit the first time, but you are saying he is full of shit this time.

"The head of drugmaker Moderna (MRNA.O) said COVID-19 vaccines are unlikely to be as effective against the Omicron variant of the coronavirus"

[url]https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/moderna-ceo-says-vaccines-likely-less-effective-against-omicron-ft-2021-11-30/[/url]

[QUOTE=Surfer500;2632871]Actually it may turn out that if your going to get COVID, then Omicron is the strain to get, as there are reports surfacing that the symptoms are very mild for those catching that strain. Yet it's all speculation right now, so saying the current vaccines don't work well against it, or what I just stated, is all pure conjecture at this point.[/QUOTE]Yep.. The Moderna CEO should stop it with his conjecture.

[QUOTE=SouthEaster;2632870]So you are telling people to purchase fake documents and break laws individual countries have enacted to try to safeguard their populations? I normally am on the same page as you but not this one. This isn't getting a fake drivers license on Khao San road, this is potential illness or worse, and not just for the individual breaking said laws.

As for "they" saying vaccines are ineffective against the new strain. Well I keep a fairly keen eye out for developments and so far the jury is out on that. It may well turn out to be true but so far it falls under "misinformation", in other words bullshit.[/QUOTE]And it's because of bullshit like this that this thing is harder to beat because selfish people want to do whatever they want to, without regard to anybody else. They don't want to get vaccinated, and will engage in fraud to have their cake and eat it too. We need to get more and more vaccine into the developing world is what we need to do, and people need to stop trying to beat the system, and instead do the right things so that the world can get back to like before this scourge of COVID.

The vaccines / boosters are not working. I know double jabbed who got Covid. I got Covid and am unvaxxed. But guess what? I am not going to be ig sporting events or drinking with thousands of others.

Some odd balls running the risk of jail and more with fake certs are not Typhoid Marys. So far, Africa has done Ok without Yankee vaccines (sic). No one needs the USA and their comfort blankets. No one needs Big Pharma for shtt like this.

You want to feed the word with Big Pharma poison. What are you, a retro Coca Cola ad?

What happened to all those Indians who dies with Covid? That is so yesterday. Now we are on the Zulu variant.

Mr Entertainment is taking his road. I am stocking up on dried foods with long shelf lives to minimize shopping trips / mingling with vaxxed morons.

Soon it will be winter in my life. I am preparing everything, even P4 P bonking. Not easy but that is how the deck has been shuffled.

Travel and other rules are changing too much so I have to shop local. Not pleasant and not cheap (or good).

[QUOTE=TheCane;2632908]And it's because of bullshit like this that this thing is harder to beat because selfish people want to do whatever they want to, without regard to anybody else. They don't want to get vaccinated, and will engage in fraud to have their cake and eat it too. We need to get more and more vaccine into the developing world is what we need to do, and people need to stop trying to beat the system, and instead do the right things so that the world can get back to like before this scourge of COVID.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2632920]The vaccines / boosters are not working. I know double jabbed who got Covid.[/QUOTE]I get tired of saying it, but [B]no vaccine guarantees you from not getting the thing it's supposed to protect you from[/B]. That's not how [b]any[/b] vaccine works. Vaccines [B]can[/B] protect you from getting a particular illness, but there is always the chance of a break-through case. And when that happens, what the vaccine does is prevent the illness from being so virulent that it kills you. That's how [B]all[/B] vaccines work. But of course, you can talk to people until you're blue in the face. They will just believe what they want to believe, and say stupid stuff like why should I get vaccinated when I'm not sick (slapping forehead)? The point of getting vaccinated is to protect you from getting sick at all, and if in the event you still do get sick (the exception and not the rule), then the thing won't be so virulent that it takes your life. It's undisputed that most of the folks who have been dying now are the unvaccinated. I have seen some of them on TV lying in their death beds. Wishing they had gotten vaccinated, and pleading with others to do so before it's too late. Yep. COVID isn't so bad. That is, until it kills you or somebody you care about.

[QUOTE=TheCane;2632908]And it's because of bullshit like this that this thing is harder to beat because selfish people want to do whatever they want to, without regard to anybody else. They don't want to get vaccinated, and will engage in fraud to have their cake and eat it too. We need to get more and more vaccine into the developing world is what we need to do, and people need to stop trying to beat the system, and instead do the right things so that the world can get back to like before this scourge of COVID.[/QUOTE]Still nobody explains why the importance is put on having the vaccine instead of having the disease. Everybody knows that Jj got the vaccine and thereafter got the disease. Say if instead of leaving Colombia and going to the USA, he left Colombia and went to Peru. I have not gotten the vaccine, and I have not gotten covid. Yet, to enter Peru on the same plane as Jj, I would have had to show a test saying that I was negative, while he could have waltzed in with full blown covid by showing only his card.

So I am walking around selfish with no card and no covid, while he is allowed to go around selfless with a card and covid. He is a sick man praised and given the red carpet, while I am a healthy man shunned and told to get in the back of the bus. Make that make sense please.

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2632903]"The head of drugmaker Moderna (MRNA.O) said COVID-19 vaccines are unlikely to be [b] *** as *** [/b] effective against the Omicron variant of the coronavirus"..[/QUOTE]Does not mean the vaccines are [B]IN[/B]effective.

Definitely go for the LASIK. And maybe throw the Golden Gate MBA away.

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2632954]Still nobody explains why the importance is put on having the vaccine instead of having the disease. He is a sick man praised and given the red carpet, while I am a healthy man shunned and told to get in the back of the bus. Make that make sense please.[/QUOTE]Not sure which of these is most appropraite.

"It is always a much easier task to educate uneducated people than to re-educate the mis-educated. " - Herbert M. Shelton.

"The American people are free to do exactly what they are told. " - Ward Churchill.

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2632954]Still nobody explains why the importance is put on having the vaccine instead of having the disease. Everybody knows that Jj got the vaccine and thereafter got the disease. Say if instead of leaving Colombia and going to the USA, he left Colombia and went to Peru. I have not gotten the vaccine, and I have not gotten covid. Yet, to enter Peru on the same plane as Jj, I would bave had to show a test saying that I was negative, while he could have waltzed in with full blown covid by showing only his card.

So I am walking around selfish with no card and no covid, while he is allowed to go around selfless with a card and covid. He is a sick man praised and given the red carpet, while I am a healthy man shunned and told to get in the back of the bus. Make that make sense please.[/QUOTE]In order to make sense, proof of vaccination (or proof of recovery from infection) and a recent negative test should be required. I understand that this is what they're doing in Germany at the moment (they call it 2 G), and to fly back to the States you have to be tested too (even citizens).

[QUOTE=JustTK;2632961]Not sure which of these is most appropraite.

"It is always a much easier task to educate uneducated people than to re-educate the mis-educated. " - Herbert M. Shelton.

"The American people are free to do exactly what they are told. " - Ward Churchill.[/QUOTE]Americans doing as they are told? Apparently not since 40% of Americans still aren't fully vaccinated. I guess whether or not you're doing as you're told depends on who you're listening to. I happen to be an extremely well-informed, well-educated person who takes my counsel from other well-informed, well-educated persons in their respective fields. And by the way in Mr. E's example, just because somebody else is doing something wrong doesn't mean that you too should go and do something wrong yourself. One still has a choice to make about doing the right thing or choosing to act fraudulently yourself. You know the saying. Two wrongs don't make a right!

[QUOTE=BlackThought;2632093]You steal photos from blogs. You dodge and deflect when asked to prove you've Mongered in places you claim by showing stamps on your passport. You claim to have met several ISG mongers, yet nobody can confirm. Who are you fooling? Lolol.[/QUOTE]Is that the best you can do? Make shit up like JJqusiamodo LMAO.

Like I'm going to show a self proclaimed obsessed anal wart licker my passport LMAO?

[URL]https://amgreatness.com/2021/12/01/third-worldizing-america/[/URL]

He look, it looks just like Market St. 24/7/365.

[QUOTE=JustTK;2632961]"The American people are free to do exactly what they are told. " - Ward Churchill.[/QUOTE]Ward Churchill, disgraced former University of Colorado professor, was fired for lying about being Native American and for multiple incidents of plagiarism.

[URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ward_Churchill[/URL]

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2632954]So I am walking around selfish with no card and no covid, while he is allowed to go around selfless with a card and covid. He is a sick man praised and given the red carpet, while I am a healthy man shunned and told to get in the back of the bus. Make that make sense please..[/QUOTE]Sure, I will explain it. The Democratic douches put out that they care more about human life than Republicans. They then embraced the "scientists", and they have a relationship with the "scientists" where they look out for each other. So the "scientists" and the point and hate Dems point a finger at you and say, "he does not care about human life, and you should hate him" and they do.

The way you trap the douches is get them to reveal what the data should be. No one gets what it means when a vaccine is 95% effective so you have to define what that means and then get them to define what success is. When they cannot define that, you know you have won.

The Democratic douches do not care about what is right. They tell you what is right and then squeeze the data in to fit their beliefs. So they will blather on about how shitty the red states are and then have no answer for why Europe has cases surging right now. That is not "science" which is proving a theory but faith based religion.

So in 2021, the vaccine is rolled out and the number of worldwide cases doubled. Now can you imagine if they were cut in half? We would be hearing non stop how fucking great the vaccine is. So the vaccine is rolled out and cases double and that cannot be the fault of the vaccine? Why? Why can the vaccine only be good and not bad? Because the "scientists" say so?

So the vaccine data says you should NOT get the vaccine. It seems to me that the vaccinated are like JJ and spreading it around to other people particularly the unvaccinated.

60% of the USA is vaccinated. Other countries have more. What is success? What % reduction should there be if 60 or 80% of a population is vaccinated? If the "scientists" will not do that and all they can do is point a finger at the unvaccinated and say, "Vaccines would work if they got vaccinated", which is what they are doing, you know and I know they are full of shit. We know now that even if a country is 100% vaccinated, the virus will still spread.

So I would just ignore those who are trying to demonize you. They are just pointing a finger at you because they do not have the answer while proclaiming to the world that they do, So giving vaccines to everyone and vaccine mandates have already been proven not to work. The demonizing of the unvaccinated should stop, and it would but "scientists" would have to admit they made a mistake, and they never do.

The only thing certain about the virus data in 2022 is that like in 2021 the Democratic douches and their "science" buddies will declare victory no matter what the data shows.

[QUOTE=JustTK;2632961]"It is always a much easier task to educate uneducated people than to re-educate the mis-educated. " - Herbert M. Shelton.[/QUOTE]Another impressive source. A fake doctor, arrested and jailed multiple times for practicing medicine without a license, and starving people to death.

[URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbert_M._Shelton[/URL]

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2632954]Still nobody explains why the importance is put on having the vaccine instead of having the disease.[/QUOTE]Sigh. Okay, I know you went to Golden Gate so I will try to keep it real simple. Asymptomatic transmission. You only think you don't have the disease. You are not sure. So, you're running around unvaccinated and not sure if you have the disease or not. Yes, vaccinated people can get the disease but it is less likely that they will. And, if they do, it is less likely they will be contagious.

Again, to review, currently the vast majority of people hospitalized with COVID are unvaccinated. The vast majority who are dying are unvaccinated. The rates of infection, symptoms, hospitalization, and death are all not just lower but much lower in the vaccinated population.

So now I have explained it to you. But, you're a proven selfish asshole and genuinely do not care. I really hope you get busted with your fake vax card.

[QUOTE=JustTK;2632961]Not sure which of these is most appropraite.

"It is always a much easier task to educate uneducated people than to re-educate the mis-educated. " - Herbert M. Shelton.

"The American people are free to do exactly what they are told. " - Ward Churchill.[/QUOTE]"It is much usually much harder to get people to do the right thing / the social responsible thing rather than the selfish thing. " - Villainy.

[QUOTE=TheCane;2632922]I get tired of saying it, but [B]no vaccine guarantees you from not getting the thing it's supposed to protect you from[/B]. That's not how [b]any[/b] vaccine works. Vaccines [B]can[/B] protect you from getting a particular illness, but there is always the chance of a break-through case. And when that happens, what the vaccine does is prevent the illness from being so virulent that it kills you. That's how [B]all[/B] vaccines work. But of course, you can talk to people until you're blue in the face. They will just believe what they want to believe, and say stupid stuff like why should I get vaccinated when I'm not sick (slapping forehead)? The point of getting vaccinated is to protect you from getting sick at all, and if in the event you still do get sick (the exception and not the rule), then the thing won't be so virulent that it takes your life. It's undisputed that most of the folks who have been dying now are the unvaccinated. I have seen some of them on TV lying in their death beds. Wishing they had gotten vaccinated, and pleading with others to do so before it's too late. Yep. COVID isn't so bad. That is, until it kills you or somebody you care about.[/QUOTE]That's not how any vaccine, has ever worked. TB, smallpox, cholera, polio, yellow fever. You can't get these diseases, and spread them, if you're vaccinated.

The cdc literally changed the definition of vaccines and herd immunity in 2020. This is a fact.

The covid shot isn't a vaccine, it's a treatment like the flu shot to prevent harsher symptoms. The same way a flu shot doesn't prevent you from getting it or spreading it.

This is why there wasnt a spanish flu vaccine and why there has never been one for respiratory viruses, they naturally mutate too fast to have any "vaccine".

I am vaxxed but against mandates as they are an obvious govt power grab pushed forward by manipulating emotional and illogical peoples' heart strings like yourself.

you shouldnt care if anyone is unvaccinated or "anti-vaxx". Wake up.

[QUOTE=JohnnyWalker55;2633141]That's not how any vaccine, has ever worked. TB, smallpox, cholera, polio, yellow fever. You can't get these diseases, and spread them, if you're vaccinated.[/QUOTE]Not true. I have been around vaccines my entire life and have received every single one of those inoculations you mentioned (and then some) before going abroad, and I know what kind of protections they gave me. Vaccines offer some damn good protection. That's why people should get vaxxed (thanks for making the case), but they don't make one impervious to illness. And what did I say? I said to get infected after vaccination would be the exception versus the rule. Which means that it would be quite rare in most circumstances. Chill out Johnny Walker. Have a drink!

[QUOTE=Villainy;2633125]"It is much usually much harder to get people to do the right thing / the social responsible thing rather than the selfish thing. " - Villainy.[/QUOTE]"It is usually much harder to get people to do the right thing / the socially responsible thing as opposed to the selfish thing. " - Villainy.

[QUOTE=TheCane;2633148]Not true. I have been around vaccines my entire life and have received every single one of those inoculations you mentioned (and then some) before going abroad, and I know what kind of protections they gave me. Vaccines offer some damn good protection. That's why people should get vaxxed (thanks for making the case), but they don't make one impervious to illness. And what did I say? I said to get infected after vaccination would be the exception versus the rule. Which means that it would be quite rare in most circumstances. Chill out Johnny Walker. Have a drink![/QUOTE][URL]https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/yellen-covid-germany-restrictions/2021/12/02/id/1047066/[/URL]

In the Netherlands, health authorities called for pre-flight COVID-19 tests for all travel from outside the European Union, after it turned out that most of the passengers who tested positive after arriving on two flights from South Africa on Nov. 26 had been vaccinated.

Did they get vaxxed with sewer water? Aka Sinovax ROTFLMMFAO.

[QUOTE=JohnnyWalker55;2633141]That's not how any vaccine, has ever worked. TB, smallpox, cholera, polio, yellow fever. You can't get these diseases, and spread them, if you're vaccinated.

The cdc literally changed the definition of vaccines and herd immunity in 2020. This is a fact.

The covid shot isn't a vaccine, it's a treatment like the flu shot to prevent harsher symptoms. The same way a flu shot doesn't prevent you from getting it or spreading it.

This is why there wasnt a spanish flu vaccine and why there has never been one for respiratory viruses, they naturally mutate too fast to have any "vaccine".

I am vaxxed but against mandates as they are an obvious govt power grab pushed forward by manipulating emotional and illogical peoples' heart strings like yourself.

you shouldnt care if anyone is unvaccinated or "anti-vaxx". Wake up.[/QUOTE]Have you ever taken a science class? How do you think vaccines are developed? You think that one day some scientist says "Eureka" I know the answer and puts together some chemicals and / or bio agents and voila! The world now has a vaccine that works perfectly and no one ever gets the disease again? That is a fair interpretation of what your post suggests.

The reality is that the disease is studied and a vaccine is eventually developed as a result of that research. It is tested and retested, side effects and efficacy are measured. Over time the vaccine results are studied and the vaccine is revised and revised and revised until eventually it is nearly perfect. So you object to calling the "CoVid vaccine" a vaccine because it isn't perfect yet? Sorry man, you need to get a refund from the Elvis School of Science Fiction and enter the real world.

[QUOTE=MarquisdeSade1;2633188]Did they get vaxxed with sewer water? Aka Sinovax ROTFLMMFAO.[/QUOTE]Speaking of sewer water, if there's anybody here who thinks getting vaccinated is 100% protection from getting sick, here's what I want them to do. First, get a cholera shot, or maybe you already have one. Then next, go to some poor, underdeveloped country in say Africa or somewhere in Asia. And then, start drinking from the same rivers, ditches, and holes that they drink from. And let's see what happens. Don't tell me that having the cholera vaccine means you absolutely can't get it! I know better. The risk is still there. Same with other diseases. I just got vaccinated against shingles, and they out and out tell you that there is no guarantee that you won't get shingles. And in the unlikely event that you do get it, then the vaccine will help you fight it and get through it. That's how vaccines work. They aren't guaranteed shields against contracting a disease, but they offer an awful lot of protection, and make it far less likely that you will get sick. But if you do, then thank your lucky stars you got that shot! Because, it could save your life (or that of somebody you love).

[QUOTE=TheCane;2633229]Speaking of sewer water, if there's anybody here who thinks getting vaccinated is 100% protection from getting sick, here's what I want them to do. First, get a cholera shot, or maybe you already have one. Then next, go to some poor, underdeveloped country in say Africa or somewhere in Asia. And then, start drinking from the same rivers, ditches, and holes that they drink from. And let's see what happens. Don't tell me that having the cholera vaccine means you absolutely can't get it! I know better. The risk is still there. Same with other diseases. I just got vaccinated against shingles, and they out and out tell you that there is no guarantee that you won't get shingles. And in the unlikely event that you do get it, then the vaccine will help you fight it and get through it. That's how vaccines work. They aren't guaranteed shields against contracting a disease, but they offer an awful lot of protection, and make it far less likely that you will get sick. But if you do, then thank your lucky stars you got that shot! Because, it could save your life (or that of somebody you love).[/QUOTE]Leave it to a hyper parasitic capitalist country like the CCP (you know the one Villany the pus oozing vagina "respects so much") to initiate a virulently deadly global pandemic and then to compound the injury by selling.

Useless PPE and Sinovax, even worse than useless, people are buying and using them thinking they are being protected.

The Jews have a saying in re, WW2.

Never again.

Will the world go back to letting the CCP destroy the planet after the CCP plague of 2019?

I read they are stock piling nukes LOL I sure hope they are made in China LMAO.

So why are they stock piling nukes?

[URL]https://www.news.com.au/technology/innovation/military/pentagon-report-reveals-beijing-aims-to-quadruple-nuclear-weapons-stockpile/news-story/475b0918749d8bc9e324636f2896d81d[/URL]

If you want to save humanity stop sending your money to China, quit buying trash made in Asia.(except for Taiwan or Vietnam)

[QUOTE=Huacho;2633021]Another impressive source. A fake doctor, arrested and jailed multiple times for practicing medicine without a license, and starving people to death.

[URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbert_M._Shelton[/URL][/QUOTE][URL]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem[/URL]

[QUOTE=TheCane;2632971] I happen to be an extremely well-informed, well-educated person who takes my[/QUOTE]You are also extremely full of yourself.

[QUOTE=MarquisdeSade1;2632719]No bueno.

[URL]https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/covid-19-omicron-quarantine-variant/2021/11/30/id/1046827/[/URL][/QUOTE][URL]https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/12/2/wrapup-1-first-omicron-case-in-u-s-adds-to-global-alarm-over-virus-variant[/URL]

To cancel or not.

[QUOTE=MarquisdeSade1;2633267]Leave it to a hyper parasitic capitalist country like the CCP (you know the one Villany the pus oozing vagina "respects so much") to initiate a virulently deadly global pandemic and then to compound the injury by selling.

Useless PPE and Sinovax, even worse than useless, people are buying and using them thinking they are being protected.

The Jews have a saying in re, WW2.

Never again.

Will the world go back to letting the CCP destroy the planet after the CCP plague of 2019?

I read they are stock piling nukes LOL I sure hope they are made in China LMAO.

So why are they stock piling nukes?.[/QUOTE]And I think you missed mine. I wasn't trying to get your point and was only interested in making my own. Hahaha!

[QUOTE=TheCane;2632971]And by the way in Mr. E's example, just because somebody else is doing something wrong doesn't mean that you too should go and do something wrong yourself. One still has a choice to make about doing the right thing or choosing to act fraudulently yourself. You know the saying. Two wrongs don't make a right![/QUOTE]But you also have to remember just because someone is doing the fraudulent thing does not mean it is the wrong thing. Or someone doing the right thing now may not be considered the right thing later on.

There were plenty in history that were doing what their societies considered the right thing at the time but looking back turned out being a fucked up thing to be doing. The right thing at the time would have been those people turning Anne Frank's family over to the authorities instead of hiding them. The right thing in early American history would have been people like Harriet Tubman turning in runaway slaves instead of helping them. Many times right and wrong depend on the perspective.

If you feel you are being unfairly treated should you just stand idle and abide by it or find a work around? Can't get mad at the slaves for running off the plantation; or can you?

[QUOTE=Huacho;2633015]Ward Churchill, disgraced former University of Colorado professor, was fired for lying about being Native American and for multiple incidents of plagiarism.
[/QUOTE]Wait until those Martin Luther King FBI tapes come out in 2027. Then we can talk about how wrong he was about everything ever.

[QUOTE=Huacho;2633024]Sigh. Okay, I know you went to Golden Gate so I will try to keep it real simple. Asymptomatic transmission. You only think you don't have the disease. You are not sure. So, you're running around unvaccinated and not sure if you have the disease or not.[/QUOTE]So you are saying THE TESTS I take every week that say I do not have the disease and the symptoms that I do not have are wrong? But the test Jj had that said he was positive and the the symptoms that he had indicating it were right? I think I am getting it now. You are asserting a heads I win, tails you lose thing!

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2633304]Wait until those Martin Luther King FBI tapes come out in 2027. Then we can talk about how wrong he was about everything ever.[/QUOTE]That he plagiarized his thesis and he was banging hookers the time he was whacked? That has been in the public domain for years. He crossed some heavy dudes and got whacked. I was speaking to friends about mutual friends who got whacked by crossing ultra heavies. I said they should not have done a Daniel and crawled into an evil lion's den. Others say crooked lions should be taken on. On their home turf. I may be crazy but I ain't that fucking crazy.

[QUOTE=TheCane;2633148]I said to get infected after vaccination would be the exception versus the rule. Which means that it would be quite rare in most circumstances.[/QUOTE]Then it would also hold that to be unvaccinated and get covid is the exception and not the rule (at least for now). Afterall, there are way more unvaccinated people that have not gotten covid than have gotten it.

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2633308]So you are saying THE TESTS I take every week that say I do not have the disease and the symptoms that I do not have are wrong? But the test Jj had that said he was positive and the the symptoms that he had indicating it were right? I think I am getting it now. You are asserting a heads I win, tails you lose thing![/QUOTE]And there is a guy recently got COVID but still got on airplane multiple times but no one talked him down just because he is vaccinated.

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2633311]Then it would also hold that to be unvaccinated and get covid is the exception and not the rule (at least for now). Afterall, there are way more unvaccinated people that have not gotten covid than have gotten it.[/QUOTE]Man your logic and reasoning sometimes. Here's the thing. The focus has to be on who [B]is[/B] getting it and dying from it. That's by far and above the unvaccinated, and they're contracting it at rate that's still too high and threatens to overwhelm the healthcare system quickly. I don't think we need anymore major shutdowns but vaccination, masking, testing, and distancing combined with sensible travel restrictions to slow global spread is the only way out of this thing. And everyone needs to do their part, including world leaders getting people in the poorer countries vaccinated as well. We're not safe until everybody is safe!

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2633303]But you also have to remember just because someone is doing the fraudulent thing does not mean it is the wrong thing. Or someone doing the right thing now may not be considered the right thing later on.

There were plenty in history that were doing what their societies considered the right thing at the time but looking back turned out being a fucked up thing to be doing. The right thing at the time would have been those people turning Anne Frank's family over to the authorities instead of hiding them. The right thing in early American history would have been people like Harriet Tubman turning in runaway slaves instead of helping them. Many times right and wrong depend on the perspective.

If you feel you are being unfairly treated should you just stand idle and abide by it or find a work around? Can't get mad at the slaves for running off the plantation; or can you?[/QUOTE]When I read or hear stuff like this, it always strikes me as coming from people who just don't want to be accountable. They're the same ones who will say things like there is no such thing as "truth" or "right and wrong". No, they just don't want to be held accountable for their actions in the moment. I'm one of those people who does believe in truth and what's right and wrong. I'm not saying that they're easy to find and identify, or even necessarily always remain the same, but they do exist, and we as people need to strive to find them. You just strike me as the kind of guy who is always going to prioritize what you want to do above anything else, then try to muddy the waters by suggesting that maybe what's right really isn't, and vice versa, and make it all about you and your rights and how you're being treated so badly. The typical American. Far more concerned about your rights and self-expression, and not concerned enough about your obligations and self-restraint.

[QUOTE=Huacho;2633024] Yes, vaccinated people can get the disease but it is less likely that they will. And, if they do, it is less likely they will be contagious.[/QUOTE]That is complete bullshit. If the vaccinated were less likely to get the disease, the case numbers for 2021 would be lower than 2020 not just in the USA but the world.

[QUOTE=MarquisdeSade1;2633188]In the Netherlands, health authorities called for pre-flight COVID-19 tests for all travel from outside the European Union, after it turned out that most of the passengers who tested positive after arriving on two flights from South Africa on Nov. 26 had been vaccinated.

Did they get vaxxed with sewer water? Aka Sinovax ROTFLMMFAO.[/QUOTE]Probably. I am shocked, shocked the vaccine did not work. Maybe if we get people 10 more boosters it will.

When you're wrong, you're wrong:

[URL]https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/32772245/tampa-bay-buccaneers-wr-antonio-brown-suspended-3-games-covid-19-violation?platform=amp[/URL]

[QUOTE=TheCane;2633229]Speaking of sewer water, if there's anybody here who thinks getting vaccinated is 100% protection from getting sick, here's what I want them to do. First, get a cholera shot, or maybe you already have one. Then next, go to some poor, underdeveloped country in say Africa or somewhere in Asia. And then, start drinking from the same rivers, ditches, and holes that they drink from. And let's see what happens. Don't tell me that having the cholera vaccine means you absolutely can't get it! I know better. The risk is still there. Same with other diseases. I just got vaccinated against shingles, and they out and out tell you that there is no guarantee that you won't get shingles. And in the unlikely event that you do get it, then the vaccine will help you fight it and get through it. That's how vaccines work. They aren't guaranteed shields against contracting a disease, but they offer an awful lot of protection, and make it far less likely that you will get sick. But if you do, then thank your lucky stars you got that shot! Because, it could save your life (or that of somebody you love).[/QUOTE][URL]https://www.newsmax.com/politics/mittromney-dalio-china/2021/12/02/id/1047142/[/URL]

[QUOTE=ShooBree;2633274][URL]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem[/URL][/QUOTE]Yeah, so an [I]ad hominem[/I] attack would be if I attacked TK and not his sources. Like if I said TK was an ignorant, uneducated, dangerous piece of shit. Now [B]that[/B] would be an [I] ad hominem[/I] attack. Instead, I am questioning his sources. You fucking idiot.

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2633308]So you are saying THE TESTS I take every week that say I do not have the disease and the symptoms that I do not have are wrong? But the test Jj had that said he was positive and the the symptoms that he had indicating it were right? I think I am getting it now. You are asserting a heads I win, tails you lose thing![/QUOTE]I am saying that between the incubation period and the one week testing interval, combined with asymptomatic transmission, you unvaccinated people are still a danger to those around you. Once a week ain't shit.

Like if you eat tacos in Tijuana. You could take immodium first. Or you could not take immodium. If you don't take immodium you might shit your pants. And just because you went to Tijuana and did not take immodium, and ate tacos, and did not shit your pants, does not mean you won't shit your pants the next time. And just like you can't get vaccinated for COVID once you have it and are intubated, you can't unshit your pants.

[QUOTE=TheCane;2633314]Man your logic and reasoning sometimes. Here's the thing. The focus has to be on who [B]is[/B] getting it and dying from it. That's by far and above the unvaccinated, and they're contracting it at rate that's still too high and threatens to overwhelm the healthcare system quickly. I don't think we need anymore major shutdowns but vaccination, masking, testing, and distancing combined with sensible travel restrictions to slow global spread is the only way out of this thing. And everyone needs to do their part, including world leaders getting people in the poorer countries vaccinated as well. We're not safe until everybody is safe![/QUOTE]What a load of BS!

The vaccine won't stop the vaccinated people from getting infected and infecting others with corona. So no, it doesn't matter to me if someone else is unvaccinated.

If the vaccine truly worked so great I should be able to travel freely across the world by just showing my passport and vaccination status. But that's not the case isn't it?

[URL]https://www.rt.com/sport/542051-vaccination-antonio-brown-suspension/[/URL]

Here is some Yankee ball juggler who got suspended for three games for using a fake Vax card. Now, as I don't want to be suspended for three games, I would not use a fake card. However, for the "gas them all" lobby, please note the dude went to a Halloween party. It is people like him, vaxed or unvaxed, who mingle who are the risk. That said, I am going to bang a local Asian provider this afternoon.

[QUOTE=ShooBree;2633275]You are also extremely full of yourself.[/QUOTE]Well informed vs ill informed?

Eye of the beholder! Jajajajajaaa.

[URL]https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.11.20062133v1[/URL]

Main outcome measures Estimated acute care and intensive care hospitalizations, COVID-19 attributable deaths, and infections among healthcare workers from 10 April until 29 June.

Findings Our model for Sweden shows that, under conservative epidemiological parameter estimates, the current Swedish public-health strategy will result in a peak intensive-care load in May that exceeds pre-pandemic capacity by over 40-fold, with a median mortality of 96,000 (95% CI 52,000 to 183,000). The most stringent public-health measures examined are predicted to reduce mortality by approximately three-fold. Intensive-care load at the peak could be reduced by over two-fold with a shorter period at peak pandemic capacity.

Its funny how the scaremongers turned out to be, what's not funny is that governments across the world actually listened to their BS.

[QUOTE=TheCane;2633318]When I read or hear stuff like this, it always strikes me as coming from people who just don't want to be accountable. They're the same ones who will say things like there is no such thing as "truth" or "right and wrong". No, they just don't want to be held accountable for their actions in the moment. I'm one of those people who does believe in truth and what's right and wrong. I'm not saying that they're easy to find and identify, or even necessarily always remain the same, but they do exist, and we as people need to strive to find them. You just strike me as the kind of guy who is always going to prioritize what you want to do above anything else, then try to muddy the waters by suggesting that maybe what's right really isn't, and vice versa, and make it all about you and your rights and how you're being treated so badly. The typical American. Far more concerned about your rights and self-expression, and not concerned enough about your obligations and self-restraint.[/QUOTE]Well of course. I am not waking up every morning living my life for Joe down the street; I am living my life for me. So you prioritize your life around other people? More power to you. As long as a person is not infringing on others then why should they not live their life how they see fit? It is like the saying I see on this board all the time, I spend my money how I want. You should also spend your life how you want. It is yours to do as you please.

Where did I all of a sudden pick up some obligations and accountability that I did not sign up for and what are they? That sounds like some communist stuff. I live in a capitalistic constitutional republic where I am free to exercise my rights, and exercise them is what I shall do until the day I die. What I just ate for breakfast is not going to make anyone else's bowels move.

Of course their is a such thing as truth or rather facts, but right and wrong depends on the perspective. From the perspective of Britain it was dead wrong for the colonists to be unaccountable in not honoring their obligation to pay their taxes and to take up arms against them, but from the colonists' perspective it was the right thing to do. Whose perspective of right and wrong is the one that matters or the true one and how is that decided?

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2633541]Well of course. I am not waking up every morning living my life for Joe down the street; I am living my life for me. So you prioritize your life around other people? More power to you. As long as a person is not infringing on others then why should they not live their life how they see fit? It is like the saying I see on this board all the time, I spend my money how I want. You should also spend your life how you want. It is yours to do as you please.

Where did I all of a sudden pick up some obligations and accountability that I did not sign up for and what are they? That sounds like some communist stuff. I live in a capitalistic constitutional republic where I am free to exercise my rights, and exercise them is what I shall do until the day I die. What I just ate for breakfast is not going to make anyone else's bowels move.

Of course their is a such thing as truth or rather facts, but right and wrong depends on the perspective. From the perspective of Britain it was dead wrong for the colonists to be unaccountable in not honoring their obligation to pay their taxes and to take up arms against them, but from the colonists' perspective it was the right thing to do. Whose perspective of right and wrong is the one that matters or the true one and how is that decided?[/QUOTE]You have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year! And don't get caught using your fake vaccination card. That might result in you getting banned from going to one or more of your favorite mongering destinations around the world.

[QUOTE=TheCane;2633314]The focus has to be on who [B]is[/B] getting it and dying from it. That's by far and above the unvaccinated, and they're contracting it at rate that's still too high and threatens to overwhelm the healthcare system quickly.[/QUOTE]You made a similar statement before. Where is the data to substantiate that claim?

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2633328]That is complete bullshit. If the vaccinated were less likely to get the disease, the case numbers for 2021 would be lower than 2020 not just in the USA but the world.[/QUOTE]The sheeple keep repeating the same propagandised mistruths. It is illuminating that they just trot out the tropes, and never provide any evidence. Bcos such evidence does not exist. They keep repeating that they are less liikely to get infected, when what they mean is that they are less likely to get infected in the short term than a unvaxd and vulnerable person who has no natural immunity. So when you stack the cards in your favour, sure you are going to win. But that is not the real world. In the long term we are all going to get it and therefore we are all just as likely. . Same goes for the lie that the unvaxd are more contagious when they have it, the non-science that masks work (all RCTs ever conducted show no evidence that they work).

Slowly, the smarter people will wake up to what is going on. It might take them a couple more jabs, a few deaths of their vaxd family and friends, but eventually they will question WTF were they thinking? That they have fall enfor another pile of government BS, that they have been duped.

About quotes. What does it matter who said / wrote a quote? What is important are the words, not the morality of the person. Even the words greatest humanitarian leaders did some terrible things. And some of the world's most evll people had brilliant minds. Joseph Goebbels was one of the sharpest oraticians.

"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and / or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State. ".

"Propaganda works best when those who are being manipulated are confident they are acting on their own free will. ".

"To be a socialist is to submit the I to the thou; socialism is sacrificing the individual to the whole. ".

"Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place. ".

[URL]https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Joseph_Goebbels[/URL]

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2633541] It is like the saying I see on this board all the time, I spend my money how I want.[/QUOTE]JJquasimodo loves to say her time, her vagina, her money.

Its quite fair to say medical autonomy and informed consent for new "vaxs" supercede what she claims, on the other hand if you want to join a monger community / forum to share intel and then when the pricing advice doesn't coincide with your sooper thirsty / desperate sexual persona, then you want to throw out that libertarian hyper self serving crap, I say don't let the door hit you in the vagina lips on the way out!

[QUOTE=Huacho;2633367]Yeah, so an [I]ad hominem[/I] attack would be if I attacked TK and not his sources. Like if I said TK was an ignorant, uneducated, dangerous piece of shit. Now [B]that[/B] would be an [I] ad hominem[/I] attack. Instead, I am questioning his sources. You fucking idiot.[/QUOTE]You're a fucking moron, instead of attacking the message you attacked the messenger. You didn't question the quote as such but the person who said it.

Its a classic ad hominem argument.

From Europe. Despite being heavily vaccinated, most of Europe is near all time highs in Covid cases.

While none of this funny, there is irony to be enjoyed. You see there is a ring of countries right now at an all time high number of cases and those are the ones in the Scandinavian region. Denmark, the Netherlands, Finland, Norway are all at an all time high number of Covid cases right now.

But there is one exception? Funny what country it might be? Yeah Sweden. Sweden's number of cases right now is only at 20% of its all time peak.

Hmm, I wonder if Sweden did anything different that the rest of the world should emulate.

And what did those douches say about Sweden again?

[QUOTE=TheCane;2633318]When I read or hear stuff like this, it always strikes me as coming from people who just don't want to be accountable. They're the same ones who will say things like there is no such thing as "truth" or "right and wrong". No, they just don't want to be held accountable for their actions in the moment. I'm one of those people who does believe in truth and what's right and wrong. I'm not saying that they're easy to find and identify, or even necessarily always remain the same, but they do exist, and we as people need to strive to find them. You just strike me as the kind of guy who is always going to prioritize what you want to do above anything else, then try to muddy the waters by suggesting that maybe what's right really isn't, and vice versa, and make it all about you and your rights and how you're being treated so badly. The typical American. Far more concerned about your rights and self-expression, and not concerned enough about your obligations and self-restraint.[/QUOTE]Typical American? WTF?

[URL]https://www.mic.com/articles/108578/the-surprising-thing-people-who-resist-authority-have-in-common[/URL]

[QUOTE=CeeJay1;2633418]So your saying that the Aiffe is becoming that popular, that would be a first. [/QUOTE]I didn't say that at all. LOL It's to the point where ISG needs to market a reading comprehension course, to benefit the forum and as an extra source of income.

[QUOTE=CeeJay1;2633418]Over the last 10 yrs that I visited there off and on there has always been a minimum of at leasrt 5 girls[/QUOTE]Who knows. At this point you can claim anything you want.

[QUOTE=CeeJay1;2633418]I was the only one there before and after I left, I never seen anybody else there [/QUOTE]And how long were you there? Ten minutes? That's hardly enough time to get a read on the comings and goings of the place. Plus this tells you nothing about who may be there but busy in the rooms.

It's not uncommon for them to only have four or five girls working. It can vary a lot from day to day, and it would be far from unheard of for all but one to be busy. Did you ask the woman how many girls were occupied? "Tienes chicas ocupadas?" You are announcing their demise on scant evidence. That was my point.

P.S. I'm surprised a woman was running the place. It's usually a guy, father and son team and one or the other is there.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2633654]Despite being heavily vaccinated, most of Europe is near all time highs in Covid cases.
Denmark, the Netherlands, Finland, Norway are all at an all time high number of Covid cases right now.
Sweden's number of cases right now is only at 20% of its all time peak.
[/QUOTE]Haha, that is funny. Even NZ, which thinks they live in a different universe to the rest of us, is going thru a peak.

You know, what I would love most of all. Is for this fantasy to end the pandemic. To find out that COVID can be transmitted by birds. Now that would be hilarious. Could you imagine how soon that would bring a halt to all this BS?

Faking it for a fake: [URL]https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/03/europe/italy-man-silicone-arm-vaccine-intl-scli/index.html[/URL].

[QUOTE=Huacho;2633013]Except for faking a vax card could sicken and kill a lot of other people, while faking onward travel does not. Just pointing that out for you.[/QUOTE]Uhh no it couldn't kill anyone. Is everyone on this board is retarded boomer?

[QUOTE=JustTK;2632952]I don't think its that's simple TBH. I think there are still some twists and turns to come. What happens when more of the world realises that they have bought in to a never ending cycle of vaxs? What happens when ppls realise that new variants make the vax almost worthless? What happens when more people realise that COVID isn't actually dangerous at all if your healthy.[/QUOTE]What happens?

1. An endless cycle of vaccinations? I suppose it depends on the person. I'm getting a booster dose in 2 weeks. If it goes the way of the first 2 doses, I'll have invested just over 1 hour of my time with zero monetary cost. Figure if it does require 2 more doses each year, add in another 45 minutes of my time per year. Personally, that doesn't seem like a world changing expenditure. I can't imagine anyone who is so busy that an average investment of less than 8 seconds per day is going to completely alter their lifestyle.

2. When new variants make the vax almost worthless? This assumes we live in a world where no scientific advances are ever made. It's quite likely that within a few months altered vaccines will become available effective against new variants. It's also likely vaccines which are effective for longer terms, if we return to point 1 for a moment.

3. When people realize Covid isn't actually dangerous at all if your (sic) healthy? I guess the same thing that happens when people realize they can jump off a 20 story building and fly, or that they are bulletproof. They die from their delusion.

[QUOTE]It seems to be a bit of a race of time at the moment, between the pro-vax sheeple view and the pro-science anti-mandate view. To me, it is not clear who will win out, especailly since its so easy to fake a vax card to buy time. Bit like faking an onward ticket when you arrive in a new country.[/QUOTE]For someone who claimed to not be anti-vax you sure do spout a lot of anti-vax nonsense. The pro-science view is to get vaccinated.

Faking a vax card is easy. Just like faking a negative Covid test is easy. However, what are the consequences when the fake is caught? We live in the digital age. It's only a matter of time before people start getting caught with their fake cards. I expect some countries will deal harshly with them. We've already seen that Colombia wasn't too happy when they caught 3 US citizens with fake tests. Being banned from a country, or possibly banned from air travel seems a high price to pay just to avoid getting vaccinated.

It's really nothing like faking an onward ticket. With a fake onward ticket you're still in the system as having entered the country and still subject to the country's rules for length of stay. If you want to make a comparison, faking a vax card is like entering a country illegally. Actually, if the country requires vaccination, using a fake vax card is entering the country illegally.

[QUOTE=VasyaPetya;2633829]Uhh no it couldn't kill anyone. Is everyone on this board is retarded boomer?[/QUOTE]Can you clarify that for me? Are you saying that COVID-19 does not, in any cases, cause death? You lost me there.

In my mind if someone is willing to fake a vax card, they're probably willing to circumvent travel restrictions when they are infected with Covid. If they're willing to travel when infected with Covid, they increase the risk of infecting others. If they are willing to risk infecting others, there's a chance someone down that infection chain will die from Covid.

Unless, of course, nobody has ever died from Covid.

[QUOTE=Paulie97;2633712]I didn't say that at all. LOL It's to the point where ISG needs to market a reading comprehension course, to benefit the forum and as an extra source of income.[/QUOTE]Maybe you should volunteer to do it, since you have all this time to analyze and critique reports.

[QUOTE=Paulie97;2633712]Who knows. At this point you can claim anything you want.[/QUOTE]LOL, all I was doing was reporting my point of view based on my experiences.

[QUOTE=Paulie97;2633712]And how long were you there? Ten minutes? That's hardly enough time to get a read on the comings and goings of the place. Plus this tells you nothing about who may be there but busy in the rooms.[/QUOTE]'Ten minutes?'More like 30 or 45 minutes. Or should I say 'I didn't say that at all'. Over the dozen times I've been there over a period of 10 years I personally never seen anybody else there and there was always at least 5 girls. I think that's pretty good estimation based on the amount of times and time span.

[QUOTE=Paulie97;2633712] You are announcing their demise. That was my point.[/QUOTE]Well many of them have. Dulce on Carrera 45 #57-55 is the last one standing on that street, but I hope Aiffe stays around and many others start up or come back. I think I made my point.

[QUOTE=VasyaPetya;2633829]Uhh no it couldn't kill anyone. Is everyone on this board is retarded boomer?[/QUOTE]LOL what? First of all you got it backwards. Boomers. Right wing are the anti vaxxers.

Its been killing Colombians 129 k fatalities so far. 2. 5% may be insignificant to you but its still killing their elderly.

Lastly, stay out of Colombia if you you're an anti vaxer covidiot.

[QUOTE=Maelstrom;2633871]LOL what? First of all you got it backwards. Boomers. Right wing are the anti vaxxers.

Its been killing Colombians 129 k fatalities so far. 2. 5% may be insignificant to you but its still killing their elderly.

Lastly, stay out of Colombia if you you're an anti vaxer covidiot.[/QUOTE]I have 2 shots and a booster AND I still need a one day test to enter my country. So it's obvious Dumb and Dumb'er, (Brandon & Fauci) NEVER EVER believed in the Vaccine or they would not require fully vaccinated people to get this 24 hour test. It's not the few hundred people on a plane from Colombia, that's the problem, it's the half a MILLION people walking across the border, unvaxed, untested dispersed through the country, that is spreading the virus.

[QUOTE=TheCane;2633567]You have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year! And don't get caught using your fake vaccination card. That might result in you getting banned from going to one or more of your favorite mongering destinations around the world.[/QUOTE][URL]https://www.newsmax.com/newsmax-tv/jordan-vaccination-database-house-covid-19/2021/12/03/id/1047270/[/URL]

[QUOTE=LatinaLover#1;2633905] it's the half a MILLION people walking across the border, unvaxed, untested dispersed through the country, that is spreading the virus.[/QUOTE]Then surely that begs the question. Why do we live in a world with 2 or 3 tier status. Where only people from tier 1 and 2 tier 2 can access a vax, whereas tier 3 must suffer what they must bcos the rich want to profit from property rights. Yet these policies come right back to bite tier 1 and 2 in the arse bcos these same less valuable people spread the virus back in ever more deadly forms.

If you think a little deeper, you can actually see this as a metaphor for poverty in general. Explot people and deny them freedom and opportunity, and they will come back and bite you in the arse. I just hope its a big and painful bite.

[QUOTE=LatinaLover#1;2633905]I have 2 shots and a booster AND I still need a one day test to enter my country. So it's obvious Dumb and Dumb'er, (Brandon & Fauci) NEVER EVER believed in the Vaccine or they would not require fully vaccinated people to get this 24 hour test. It's not the few hundred people on a plane from Colombia, that's the problem, it's the half a MILLION people walking across the border, unvaxed, untested dispersed through the country, that is spreading the virus.[/QUOTE]I try to stay out of arguments on this board because there's already too much acrimony in the world and this space is about our mongering hobby. But in this instance I'll jump in here for a sec. It's apparent you may only get your information from Fox News or worse, Newsmax. No Covid vaccine is 100% effective and they have never been advertised as such. What they all do effectively is drastically reduce the possibility of serious illness and death. You can be fully vaxxed with a booster and still become a breakthrough case. But feeling no symptoms, you can infect others, including kids under 5 who can't get the shot. By the way, South Africa is experiencing a unsettling uptick in cases of kids under 5 with the Omicron variant.

In regards to your right wing talking point about illegals spreading the virus, there are zero evidence that is happening. The only evidence that can truly be relied on is that this virus is still raging because there large numbers of people across the globe not vaccinated. The Southern Hemisphere needs to vaccinate 3 billion people still. Here at home there are still 40%+ of Americans that refuse to roll their sleeves up and do what's right.

[QUOTE=Maelstrom;2633871]LOL what? First of all you got it backwards. Boomers. Right wing are the anti vaxxers.

Its been killing Colombians 129 k fatalities so far. 2. 5% may be insignificant to you but its still killing their elderly.

Lastly, stay out of Colombia if you you're an anti vaxer covidiot.[/QUOTE]129 K deaths from CoVid in a population of 52 M is only 0. 25%. Just to be accurate, but all your points are exactly right. Colombians believe the science and are getting vaccinated at a very high rate, higher than many European countries. As of December 1st, 48.9% have have been fully vaccinated and 74.5% have had at least 1 vaccination.

So just like Maelstrom said. If you are an anti-vaxxer stay out of Colombia.

[QUOTE=JustTK;2633931]Then surely that begs the question. Why do we live in a world with 2 or 3 tier status. Where only people from tier 1 and 2 tier 2 can access a vax, whereas tier 3 must suffer what they must bcos the rich want to profit from property rights. Yet these policies come right back to bite tier 1 and 2 in the arse bcos these same less valuable people spread the virus back in ever more deadly forms.

If you think a little deeper, you can actually see this as a metaphor for poverty in general. Explot people and deny them freedom and opportunity, and they will come back and bite you in the arse. I just hope its a big and painful bite.[/QUOTE]That is the dumbest thing I have ever read. Like seriously, I have never read a more idiotic comment ever. I don't want to start a fight TK, I am sure your a good guy at heart. I just can't understand how that could even be a logical thought in another persons mind.

Fact- It is absolutely no ones fault in the USA that people from other countries are in poverty. The people of the USA owe nothing to anyone else on this planet. People in poverty from other nations by the millions, are illegally crossing into the USA and spreading a deadly virus.

Opinion- For a very long time, nations went to war for far less.

[QUOTE=RamDavidson84;2633952]That is the dumbest thing I have ever read. Like seriously, I have never read a more idiotic comment ever.[/QUOTE]Well, keep reading this thread.

[QUOTE=TnJed;2633935]I try to stay out of arguments on this board because there's already too much acrimony in the world and this space is about our mongering hobby. But in this instance I'll jump in here for a sec. It's apparent you may only get your information from Fox News or worse, Newsmax.[/QUOTE]And you are trying to lessen the acrimony with that statement? LOL.

[QUOTE=TnJed;2633935] No Covid vaccine is 100% effective and they have never been advertised as such.[/QUOTE]No, you Democratic douche, they were advertised as being 95% effective in preventing the spread of Covid and turned out to be 0% effective. So now you try to apologize for Fauci, the drug companies, and Brandon with this bullshit line about "no Covid vaccine is 100% effective". Do you understand the difference between 95 and 0 douche?

[QUOTE=TnJed;2633935] What they all do effectively is drastically reduce the possibility of serious illness and death.[/QUOTE]So that 95% reduction is thrown out, and the powers that be came up with that new benefit, and you just went along with it.

With death, you can throw those numbers out the fucking window. When the Italians got rid of comorbidities, they reduced the number of Covid deaths by 97%. Deaths can easily be manipulated by government to get the figures it wants.

Hospitalization cannot be as easily manipulated, and the numbers there are not what the government says. Different countries have different thresholds for admission but in Israel the unvaccinated had double the rate of hospitalization.

Okay, douche, here is your homework. What is the rate of hospitalization with Covid and the rate of side effects with the vaccines?

You see, I know three people who have had debilitating tinnitus after getting the vaccine so help me out.

[QUOTE=TnJed;2633935]Here at home there are still 40%+ of Americans that refuse to roll their sleeves up and do what's right.[/QUOTE]Right huh? Are you going to do what is right and man up and pay $10,000 to anyone who follows your advice and has a side effect to the vaccine? NO then STFU Douche. No one wants to hear from someone who is a government dick sucking mouth piece.

Drug companies and government douches have immunity from lawsuits. If their advice was so fucking great, why do they need said immunity?

[QUOTE=RamDavidson84;2633952]Fact- It is absolutely no ones fault in the USA that people from other countries are in poverty. The people of the USA owe nothing to anyone else on this planet. [/QUOTE]Fact: he did not say anything about USA! Why did you quote him and go on a rant saying what Americans do not owe anyone?

[QUOTE=RamDavidson84;2633952]That is the dumbest thing I have ever read. Like seriously, I have never read a more idiotic comment ever.
Fact- It is absolutely no ones fault in the USA that people from other countries are in poverty. The people of the USA owe nothing to anyone else on this planet. People in poverty from other nations by the millions, are illegally crossing into the USA and spreading a deadly virus.
Opinion- For a very long time, nations went to war for far less.[/QUOTE]Hi Ram. Apologies, but you have lost me there bud. I don't see the relevance of what you wrote has to demonstrate that what I wrote is dumb. I assume that was what you were trying to do? (I don't agree with what you wrote, but that is beside the point).

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2634028]Fact: he did not say anything about USA! Why did you quote him and go on a rant saying what Americans do not owe anyone?[/QUOTE]Haha, you beat me to it!! I too was wondering why he got his knickers in a twist about the USA there.

[QUOTE=TnJed;2633935]I try to stay out of arguments on this board because there's already too much acrimony in the world and this space is about our mongering hobby. But in this instance I'll jump in here for a sec. It's apparent you may only get your information from Fox News or worse, Newsmax. No Covid vaccine is 100% effective and they have never been advertised as such. What they all do effectively is drastically reduce the possibility of serious illness and death. You can be fully vaxxed with a booster and still become a breakthrough case. But feeling no symptoms, you can infect others, including kids under 5 who can't get the shot. By the way, South Africa is experiencing a unsettling uptick in cases of kids under 5 with the Omicron variant.

In regards to your right wing talking point about illegals spreading the virus, there are zero evidence that is happening. The only evidence that can truly be relied on is that this virus is still raging because there large numbers of people across the globe not vaccinated. The Southern Hemisphere needs to vaccinate 3 billion people still. Here at home there are still 40%+ of Americans that refuse to roll their sleeves up and do what's right.[/QUOTE]Great post in all ways.

[QUOTE=Villainy;2633951]129 K deaths from CoVid in a population of 52 M is only 0. 25%. Just to be accurate, but all your points are exactly right. Colombians believe the science and are getting vaccinated at a very high rate, higher than many European countries. As of December 1st, 48.9% have have been fully vaccinated and 74.5% have had at least 1 vaccination.

So just like Maelstrom said. If you are an anti-vaxxer stay out of Colombia.[/QUOTE]Deaths per one million population per worldometer is 2491 in Colombia, 2422 in USA, and 1486 in Sweden.

Not sure what being an antivaxxer has to do with anything, but those numbers show it really was stupid for the government to have shut down and banned international travel for as long as they did.

[QUOTE=JustTK;2634031]Haha, you beat me to it!! I too was wondering why he got his knickers in a twist about the USA there.[/QUOTE]Haha, let me tone it down, I will admit my post came off too harsh and I should have checked the hostility. Always happy to debate the proper way.

You are responding to a post about the current border situation and in which the post is pointing out how millions of illegal immigrants fleeing nations of poverty are crossing the border illegally and spreading the virus. You then post about how "Tier 1" and "Tier 2" nations are profiting off these people in poverty because of "property rights". I assumed you meant a tier 1 nation is a first world industrialized nation. I also assumed you were referring to the USA because you are replying to a post which was referencing problems currently occurring at the border of the USA and Mexico.

I assumed you were trying to argue that first world nations deliberately try to keep third world nations in poverty? Is this what you meant?

I also assumed you were trying to state that due to this level of poverty that people in third world nations do not have access to the vaccine and because of this the virus can mutate and flourish and reinfect people in more dangerous forms in both first and third world nations. Were you trying to state that point?

I strongly disagree that anyone out there in a free market democratic society is trying to deny people in poverty freedom and opportunity just so that they can exploit them. Maybe in Cuba and Venezuela, but they are communist dictatorships and not "Tier 1" or "Tier 2" nations, if that's what you meant.

I assumed when you stated that people in poverty are going to "Bite back painfully", I took that as a hostile comment meaning the USA and Tier 1 nations deserve the chaos, death, and toxic environment created by the mass influx of illegal immigrants at the border. Am I wrong in that statement?

And I am very confused on how the property rights of first world nations impoverish people in third world nations? What exactly did you mean by that?

My bad if I misinterpreted anything in your post. I have a made a stupid post from time to time.

[QUOTE=TnJed;2633935]I try to stay out of arguments on this board because there's already too much acrimony in the world and this space is about our mongering hobby. But in this instance I'll jump in here for a sec. It's apparent you may only get your information from Fox News or worse, Newsmax. No Covid vaccine is 100% effective and they have never been advertised as such. What they all do effectively is drastically reduce the possibility of serious illness and death. You can be fully vaxxed with a booster and still become a breakthrough case. But feeling no symptoms, you can infect others, including kids under 5 who can't get the shot. By the way, South Africa is experiencing a unsettling uptick in cases of kids under 5 with the Omicron variant.

In regards to your right wing talking point about illegals spreading the virus, there are zero evidence that is happening. The only evidence that can truly be relied on is that this virus is still raging because there large numbers of people across the globe not vaccinated. The Southern Hemisphere needs to vaccinate 3 billion people still. Here at home there are still 40%+ of Americans that refuse to roll their sleeves up and do what's right.[/QUOTE]Please correct me if I am wrong. I am just stating my opinion.

1. To the best of my knowledge, millions of undocumented immigrants have crossed the southern border to the USA illegally since the start of this Pandemic. Is seems almost impossible to assume that none of them transmitted the virus across the border which significantly contributed to the spread of the virus. There may be no scientific studies on it, but "common sense" would indicate that many of them probably spread the virus. That same common sense logic is probably why for a long time, many nations secured their border and did not allow travel at all in any form.

I think its hard to argue that the policy of Biden makes any sense. He does as little as possible when it comes to securing the border but allows millions of illegals to cross the border. He then makes all international travelers take a 24 hour covid test regardless of vaccination. It really looks like to me, he is trying to increase the size of his voter base through illegal immigration and this comes at the expense of American citizen's health, and if you speak out against it, your deemed a racist bigot.

This is my opinion and I understand if you see it a different way and would encourage someone to explain to me why his policy makes sense.

[QUOTE=TnJed;2633935]I try to stay out of arguments on this board because there's already too much acrimony in the world and this space is about our mongering hobby. But in this instance I'll jump in here for a sec. It's apparent you may only get your information from Fox News or worse, Newsmax. No Covid vaccine is 100% effective and they have never been advertised as such. What they all do effectively is drastically reduce the possibility of serious illness and death. You can be fully vaxxed with a booster and still become a breakthrough case. But feeling no symptoms, you can infect others, including kids under 5 who can't get the shot. By the way, South Africa is experiencing a unsettling uptick in cases of kids under 5 with the Omicron variant.

In regards to your right wing talking point about illegals spreading the virus, there are zero evidence that is happening. The only evidence that can truly be relied on is that this virus is still raging because there large numbers of people across the globe not vaccinated. The Southern Hemisphere needs to vaccinate 3 billion people still. Here at home there are still 40%+ of Americans that refuse to roll their sleeves up and do what's right.[/QUOTE][URL]https://www.truthdig.com/articles/the-careerists/[/URL]

https://amgreatness.com/2021/12/03/the-folly-of-wisdom-in-an-unwise-age/

BTW your numbers are a bit off!!!

https://www.google.com/search?q=population+of+the+southern+hemisphere&source=hp&ei=OcWrYdD6CN_S1sQPr6eVyAc&iflsig=ALs-wAMAAAAAYavTSbUy3EECe24XNetRBgOVV8tHK04m&oq=population+of+the+southern+hemis&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAEYADIFCAAQgAQyBggAEBYQHjIGCAAQFhAeOgcIABCABBAKOgUILhCABDoKCAAQgAQQRhD7AVAAWLEsYLQ7aABwAHgBgAHWBYgB7TCSAQ4wLjIwLjYuMi4wLjEuMZgBAKABAQ&sclient=gws-wiz

[QUOTE=RamDavidson84;2634055]My bad if I misinterpreted anything in your post. I have a made a stupid post from time to time.[/QUOTE]Well, you made a lot of false assumptions in what I wrote .

"I also assumed you were referring to the USA because you are replying to a post which was referencing problems currently occurring at the border of the USA and Mexico. ".

Clearly I am referring to tier 1 and 2 nations.

"I assumed you were trying to argue that first world nations deliberately try to keep third world nations in poverty? Is this what you meant?

No, I never wrote that.

"I strongly disagree that anyone out there in a free market democratic society is trying to deny people in poverty freedom and opportunity just so that they can exploit them".

I never claimed that either.

"Maybe in Cuba and Venezuela, but they are communist dictatorships and not "Tier 1" or "Tier 2" nations, if that's what you meant. ".

Totally false, but that's an argument for another day. Hehe.

"I assumed when you stated that people in poverty are going to "Bite back painfully", I took that as a hostile comment meaning the USA and Tier 1 nations deserve the chaos, death, and toxic environment created by the mass influx of illegal immigrants at the border. Am I wrong in that statement?

I hoped for a big and painful bite so that the tier 1 and 2 would wake up and take notice of what their policies are reaping. To get their attention.

"And I am very confused on how the property rights of first world nations impoverish people in third world nations? What exactly did you mean by that?

I never claimed that.

Maybe it's easier if I just start again? – Nearly all the vaxes have gone to Tier 1 and 2 nations. Tier 1 nations are refusing to waive their intellectual property rights to the vaxes as they want to profit from the vaxes. I think this is a selfish and myopic policy. The WHO agrees with me. Poor countries could produce their own vaxes or buy them at affordable prices if Tier 1 nations waived their rights. You cannot eradicate any virus unless everyone is vaccinated with an effective vax. Allowing a virus to circulate will lead to more variants, and these variants will come back and bite the Tier 1 in the arse. That's the point I was making. Although I did prefer my point about this being a metaphor for poverty in general. Hehe.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2634051]Deaths per one million population per worldometer is 2491 in Colombia, 2422 in USA, and 1486 in Sweden.

Not sure what being an antivaxxer has to do with anything, but those numbers show it really was stupid for the government to have shut down and banned international travel for as long as they did.[/QUOTE]JAJAJAJAJA.

Going on 2 fucking years later!

[URL]https://chicago.cbslocal.com/2021/12/03/masks-outdoor-recess-burr-elementary-chicago-public-schools/[/URL]

[QUOTE=RamDavidson84;2633952]That is the dumbest thing I have ever read. Like seriously, I have never read a more idiotic comment ever. I don't want to start a fight TK, I am sure your a good guy at heart. I just can't understand how that could even be a logical thought in another persons mind.

Fact- It is absolutely no ones fault in the USA that people from other countries are in poverty. The people of the USA owe nothing to anyone else on this planet. People in poverty from other nations by the millions, are illegally crossing into the USA and spreading a deadly virus.

Opinion- For a very long time, nations went to war for far less.[/QUOTE]Nothing is more predictable. Since the start of the pandemic and with few exceptions it's the strong red states that are leading the way when it comes to confirmed Covid cases per 100 K population. This while your leftist states with very few exceptions bring up the rear. And it's Republicans that lead the way by far when it comes to refusing vaccinations. See attachments. This data was already posted so apparently you haven't been following this thread. But save the fake indignation pal as no one here with any sense is buying it. Right wing nuts are the biggest problem we face in this country. They also lead the way in domestic terrorism as determined by Trump's DHS.

[URL]https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/publications/2020_10_06_homeland-threat-assessment.pdf[/URL]

P.S. The border is a complex issue but needless to say Trump's "wall" would never have worked.

[QUOTE=JustTK;2634082]Well, you made a lot of false assumptions in what I wrote .

"I also assumed you were referring to the USA because you are replying to a post which was referencing problems currently occurring at the border of the USA and Mexico. ".

Clearly I am referring to tier 1 and 2 nations.

"I assumed you were trying to argue that first world nations deliberately try to keep third world nations in poverty? Is this what you meant?

No, I never wrote that.

"I strongly disagree that anyone out there in a free market democratic society is trying to deny people in poverty freedom and opportunity just so that they can exploit them".

I never claimed that either.

"Maybe in Cuba and Venezuela, but they are communist dictatorships and not "Tier 1" or "Tier 2" nations, if that's what you meant...[/QUOTE]I understand what you meant. You sure did choose some interesting words to write your original post with if this is the message you actually wanted to convey. Either way, after reading your post, I agree that the Pharma Companies should allow poorer nations to produce their own vaccines and share their intellectual property rights regarding the vaccine. I wasn't aware that it was even taking place to be honest. It is not something covered at all in the American media. I do know that even here in the USA, it took a very long time to produce the vaccine and distribute it to the masses.

I disagree with you though that people from any country should bite back at first world nations for not sharing the I. P. Rights, I followed the vaccination rates around the world and it wasn't a significant difference at the speed of distribution from first world to third world nations and remember this, if it wasn't for those first world nations, we wouldn't have a vaccine to begin with. Just curious TK, what country are you from?

[QUOTE=CeeJay1;2633843]'Ten minutes?'More like 30 or 45 minutes...I made my point.[/QUOTE]Okay so according to you Affiee (the red door) only had one girl available, and that you were the only one there the whole time other than that girl and the lady manager. You didn't take the girl but stayed 30 to 45 minutes. Why? To stare at the wall? If you wanted to play with your phone 45 minutes you wouldn't be out hunting for as girl. You obviously don't speak any basis Spanish, probably can hardly fumble around with Google translate as you never asked the manager if any girls were occupied or if any more were arriving soon. Yet you assumed all the rooms were empty and that the casa is on it's last legs. Your point is that you are a liar, which a lot of people are when trying to defend bone headed posts, but next time try to make your lies at least somewhat believable. That's the only point here.

[QUOTE=Maelstrom;2633871]LOL what? First of all you got it backwards. Boomers. Right wing are the anti vaxxers.

Its been killing Colombians 129 k fatalities so far. 2. 5% may be insignificant to you but its still killing their elderly.

Lastly, stay out of Colombia if you you're an anti vaxer covidiot.[/QUOTE]You're obviously the idiot given that even fully vaccinated can infect others with the virus.

Also, it's not needed to be vaccinated to be allowed in to Colombia so just STFU with your moronic opinions.

[QUOTE=TnJed;2633935]I try to stay out of arguments on this board because there's already too much acrimony in the world and this space is about our mongering hobby. But in this instance I'll jump in here for a sec. It's apparent you may only get your information from Fox News or worse, Newsmax. No Covid vaccine is 100% effective and they have never been advertised as such. What they all do effectively is drastically reduce the possibility of serious illness and death. You can be fully vaxxed with a booster and still become a breakthrough case. But feeling no symptoms, you can infect others, including kids under 5 who can't get the shot. By the way, South Africa is experiencing a unsettling uptick in cases of kids under 5 with the Omicron variant.

In regards to your right wing talking point about illegals spreading the virus, there are zero evidence that is happening. The only evidence that can truly be relied on is that this virus is still raging because there large numbers of people across the globe not vaccinated. The Southern Hemisphere needs to vaccinate 3 billion people still. Here at home there are still 40%+ of Americans that refuse to roll their sleeves up and do what's right.[/QUOTE]Well, that's incorrect. The vaccine is still raging because we have no effective vaccine to reduce transmissions.

[QUOTE=Paulie97;2634084]Nothing is more predictable. Since the start of the pandemic and with few exceptions it's the strong red states that are leading the way when it comes to confirmed Covid cases per 100 K population. This while your leftist states with very few exceptions bring up the rear. And it's Republicans that lead the way by far when it comes to refusing vaccinations. See attachments. This data was already posted so apparently you haven't been following this thread. But save the fake indignation pal as no one here with any sense is buying it. Right wing nuts are the biggest problem we face in this country. They also lead the way in domestic terrorism as determined by Trump's DHS.

[URL]https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/publications/2020_10_06_homeland-threat-assessment.pdf[/URL]

P.S. The border is a complex issue but needless to say Trump's "wall" would never have worked.[/QUOTE]Paulie97,

I am not an anti-vaccine and I never said anything about people who are either pro-vaccine or anti-vaccine. Personally I am fully vaccinated and I feel safer that way and I think its the smart thing to do to get vaccinated if your health is good. I also consider myself a moderate and not a Republican and I am from a strong blue-state. When it comes to the border issue, I tend to agree with Republican policies these, but I always judge any issue on my own and don't just blindly take party lines. The border issue is very complex, I agree. In my opinion the safest solution regarding the spread of covid-19 would be to secure the border which our President, or my President depending on your country, is failing miserably to do anything about.

Please don't label me a right-wing nut just because I advocate for border security to protect labor wages, taxes, protection from drug cartels, reduction in drug trafficking, voter base-size regulation, and the reduction of covid cases within my nation. There's no justification there to label someone a nut for advocating those policies.

As far as Right-wing nuts go, they are definitely a problem, but the thing is I never hear of terrorist acts they actually commit in real life. I have never seen a right-wing terrorist attack in my local community. Ever. I literally see weekly shootings from inner city crime in my local community as well as many other forms of serious crime and it seems like a much realistic problem which effects my life and the lives of people in my community. People can spit out what ever strange facts and statistics they want, but when I read the local news and its constantly covering local shootings, looting, vandalism, car thefts. Etc on a very regular basis and I have never ever in decades seen one act of domestic terrorism, I am much more concerned about inner city crime. For the record, I have a close friend who was shot several weeks ago and my neighbors house was broken into and robbed a few weeks ago as well. Just judging life by what I actually experience. I am sure your life experiences are different and they shape your views on these same issues much differently from mine.

Again I would never condone right-wing extremism and things like the Jan. 6th riots are a disgrace and the actions of those right-wing nuts were reprehensible. You can never condone riots like that. They were just as bad and shameful as the Left-wing nuts who burnt cities down over the George Floyd murder.

[QUOTE=ShooBree;2634113]Well, that's incorrect. The vaccine is still raging because we have no effective vaccine to reduce transmissions.[/QUOTE]I hate raging vaccines that aren't effective because the vaccine wasn't effective at reducing vaccines. LOL.

[QUOTE=RamDavidson84;2634088]I followed the vaccination rates around the world and it wasn't a significant difference at the speed of distribution from first world to third world nations and remember this, if it wasn't for those first world nations, we wouldn't have a vaccine to begin with. Just curious TK, what country are you from?[/QUOTE]Am not sure what news channels you watch Ram, but I would consider changing them. Hehe. As of 15 Sep 2021,60% of people in high income countries had received 1 jab, whereas 3% in low income countries had received one. Thats according to the UN. [URL]https://news.un.org/en/story/2021/09/1100192[/URL].

The World Bank stated that of the first 4 billion vaccine doses used, only 0. 3% of them went to people from low income countries.

Which country am I from? I would rather not say. Nothing against you Ram, but there are plenty others here who pounce on any information to insult and mis-characterise you.

[QUOTE=JustTK;2634177]Am not sure what news channels you watch Ram, but I would consider changing them. Hehe. As of 15 Sep 2021,60% of people in high income countries had received 1 jab, whereas 3% in low income countries had received one. Thats according to the UN. [URL]https://news.un.org/en/story/2021/09/1100192[/URL].

The World Bank stated that of the first 4 billion vaccine doses used, only 0. 3% of them went to people from low income countries.

Which country am I from? I would rather not say. Nothing against you Ram, but there are plenty others here who pounce on any information to insult and mis-characterise you.[/QUOTE]Interesting and concerning statistics you present. I followed the world vaccination chart on vaccination rates from CNN I believe. They had an interactive map and I followed much of Latin America and their vaccination rates, hehe especially Mexico and Colombia for obvious reasons and I didn't notice many nations were so far behind. I am always in support of a free market and private ownership of business and industry and unfortunately healthcare is privatized in the USA so I would have to support their rights in a situation like this most of the time, but I think for future pandemics, perhaps there could be a discussion on the use of emergency legislation to allow a more even distribution of a vaccine to third world nations.

And respect to your privacy, the most I would ever reveal about my self on a forum like this is my nationality.

[QUOTE=ShooBree;2634113]Well, that's incorrect. The vaccine is still raging because we have no effective vaccine to reduce transmissions.[/QUOTE]You're a great combo. Toxic and stupid.

Vaccines to prevent serious illness AND wear a fucking mask to limit transmission. Jesus f'ing Christ.

[QUOTE=Paulie97;2634096]Okay so according to you Affiee (the red door) only had one girl available, and that you were the only one there the whole time other than that girl and the lady manager. You didn't take the girl but stayed 30 to 45 minutes. Why? To stare at the wall?[/QUOTE]LOL, Maybe you need the comprehension course. I never said I was there that particular time for 30 to 45 minutes. I was saying majority of the times I visited there I spent 30 minutes or more, but it seems you like to spin things to fit your own argument. I guess your the CN of the forum. Lmao.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2634051]Deaths per one million population per worldometer is 2491 in Colombia, 2422 in USA, and 1486 in Sweden.

Not sure what being an antivaxxer has to do with anything, but those numbers show it really was stupid for the government to have shut down and banned international travel for as long as they did.[/QUOTE][URL]https://amgreatness.com/2021/12/04/oh-oh-omicron/[/URL]

[QUOTE=CeeJay1;2634231] I never said I was there that particular time for 30 to 45 minutes.[/QUOTE]That's exactly what you said when asked how you could possibly know how many girls were present in just ten minutes, a normal time frame for the visit since you didn't take a girl. But let's go back to your original post for the fun of it.

[QUOTE=CeeJay1;2634231]Went to Aiffe on Calle 57 (Argentina) 43-27 earlier today. Sat down, waited for the presentation, the first girl comes out, shows herself and goes back through the curtain. Waited for the next girl, the lady comes out and I though she said wait a moment the girls were getting ready, but more like there' s only one girl. They usually had at least between 5 to 8 girls if I remember. I guess now this is the new norm. This place is one girl away from closing.[/QUOTE]"If you remember" but you obviously don't. This place often over the years has only a few girls to present. Much relates to how many happen to be occupied and / or how early you arrive. It's a smaller operation than say New Life or Zandalay. So on a single visit only one girl was presented, and without asking the manager how many were occupied you assume this is "the new norm" and the place is "one girl away from closing. " That's some fine reasoning ability there pal, beautiful use of logical deduction. LMAO Can you walk and chew gum at the same time? It's not safe for you to be wandering around a foreign country without a guardian. Wink.

[QUOTE=CeeJay1;2633843]Over the dozen times I've been there over a period of 10 years I personally never seen anybody else there and there was always at least 5 girls. [/QUOTE]Yea right, you are obviously making it up as you go along. Your experience is in German gangbang clubs / sausage fests. Hey why wait for October? LOL Wink. It's obviously minimal for Medellin, and your latest trip was only four days. Affiee (the red door) is well established for many years and popular with North Americans and locals alike. Often men are seen on the couch and chairs deciding on girls. If the door is closed to the big front room than someone is in there. They get plenty of traffic. One reason surely is because the directions to there from New Life are so simple. You obviously know little of these places or common sense when you assume that no one else was in the building because you never saw them. LMAO These places thrive on activities behind closed doors between hookers and customers. And you didn't bother booting up Google translate to see if any other girls were working other than the one presented to you. That's standard procedure when visiting a casa.

[QUOTE=CeeJay1;2633843]Well many of them have. Dulce on Carrera 45 #57-55 is the last one standing on that street [/QUOTE]The one next door to Dulce Acompania was hanging by a thread before the pandemic and may well resurface later. The only other one on that street was several blocks down the street, was know as the Coffee House. It likewise was a weak business before the pandemic and may have went under prior. It likely won't resurface as it's a personal residence now. Those are the only two failures in that general vicinity. There are five strong businesses in the general area, New Life, Affiee, Dulce, Amigas de Sexy, and Zandalay.

Though no doubt equally divisive. Cop26 was a disaster and here is a superb discussion as to why.

[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuBJvu6XNww[/URL]

[QUOTE=CeeJay1;2634231]LOL, Maybe you need the comprehension course. I never said I was there that particular time for 30 to 45 minutes. I was saying majority of the times I visited there I spent 30 minutes or more, but it seems you like to spin things to fit your own argument. I guess your the CN of the forum. Lmao.[/QUOTE]Yeah, we all know that Paulie is a compulsive liar. He just can't help it.

[QUOTE=Paulie97;2634084]Nothing is more predictable. Since the start of the pandemic and with few exceptions it's the strong red states that are leading the way when it comes to confirmed Covid cases per 100 K population. This while your leftist states with very few exceptions bring up the rear. And it's Republicans that lead the way by far when it comes to refusing vaccinations. See attachments. This data was already posted so apparently you haven't been following this thread. But save the fake indignation pal as no one here with any sense is buying it. Right wing nuts are the biggest problem we face in this country. They also lead the way in domestic terrorism as determined by Trump's DHS.

[URL]https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/publications/2020_10_06_homeland-threat-assessment.pdf[/URL]

P.S. The border is a complex issue but needless to say Trump's "wall" would never have worked.[/QUOTE]The libtards are destroying their own countries. When looking at the 12 states with most deaths / capita 6 of them are libtard states. Not to mention how the politicians elected by the libtards broke the very same restrictions themselves had implemented.

[QUOTE=JustTK;2634177]Am not sure what news channels you watch Ram, but I would consider changing them. Hehe. As of 15 Sep 2021,60% of people in high income countries had received 1 jab, whereas 3% in low income countries had received one. Thats according to the UN. [URL]https://news.un.org/en/story/2021/09/1100192[/URL].

The World Bank stated that of the first 4 billion vaccine doses used, only 0. 3% of them went to people from low income countries.

Which country am I from? I would rather not say. Nothing against you Ram, but there are plenty others here who pounce on any information to insult and mis-characterise you.[/QUOTE]Tell us where you're from already, the worst place I can imagine being from would be Lagos, say it ain't so bro?

BTW I feel that 0.3% is offensively high!

[QUOTE=TnJed;2634201]You're a great combo. Toxic and stupid.
Vaccines to prevent serious illness AND wear a fucking mask to limit transmission. Jesus f'ing Christ.[/QUOTE]I will play ball w you.

1. "Vaccines prevent serious illness". Ok, so if I am not bothered about the risk of serious illness, then I am exempt from the vax, right?

2. "Wear a mask to limit transmission" - do you have any evidence at all to support that claim? By evidence I mean an RCT, you know, the type of evidence that scientists normally rely upon. I know of 14 RCTs worldwide on mask use, and NONE of them demonstrated that mask use was effective.

So please demonstrate that it is SB that is toxic and stupid. And, indeed, not you!

[QUOTE=RamDavidson84;2634182]Interesting and concerning statistics you present. I followed the world vaccination chart on vaccination rates from CNN I believe.[/QUOTE]Follow the USA news and you will receive US-centric news. And we all know that the USA doesn't give a flying fuck about anyone else in the world. Hehe. Except Israel and anyone else that pays them to care.

[QUOTE=MarquisdeSade1;2634433]Tell us where you're from already, the worst place I can imagine being from would be Lagos, say it ain't so bro?
BTW I feel that 0.3% is offensively high![/QUOTE]Hehe. So tell me, what do I stand to gain from telling you where my home is? And what do you stand to gain? I know the answer to the second question, but I am struggling with the first one.

"I feel that 0. 3% is offensively high".

Don't let compassion ruin your image MdS!

[QUOTE=JustTK;2634516]Follow the USA news and you will receive US-centric news. And we all know that the USA doesn't give a flying fuck about anyone else in the world. Hehe. Except Israel and anyone else that pays them to care.[/QUOTE]"Compassion" is a word for want to be manipulators!

I truly "am my brothers keeper" and that applies to inside USA borders!!

I'm glad you went outside the reservation, so now I can say what I really want to say. When I first read your comment starting from the title and I though "what a douce bag. " It doesn't seem like you have been part of this guide or I should say contributed anything to it but typical douchebag trolling comments. You still seem to make your own interpretations out of comments. You should work for CN. All your comments have a douchebag tone to them. If it were some other member that made the comment, for example, WT 69 (whom is a big contributor) I would reply with something like "Oh okay that's possible, I mean you would know". But to a neophyte libtard douchebag, like yourself, that trolls and takes from the forum, I think "NOT".

[QUOTE=Paulie97;2634294]So on a single visit only one girl was presented, and without asking the manager how many were occupied you assume this is "the new norm" and the place is "one girl away from closing.[/QUOTE]You still make it sound as if I'm basing my assumptions on one 10 minute visit.

[QUOTE=Paulie97;2634294]Affiee (the red door) is well established for many years and popular with North Americans and locals alike. Often men are seen on the couch and chairs deciding on girls..[/QUOTE]LOL. Your delusion illuminates like a Rockwell painting. Maybe you can write an expo piece on them, or better yet a novel. You seem to know so much about this place. Chances are I bet you were behind the red door when I was there or when anyone else was there for that matter. And of course, in your visits there was nowhere to sit because the Couche let alone the floor was full with North Americans and locals alike, eagerly waiting.

[QUOTE=Paulie97;2634294] These places thrive on activities behind closed doors between hookers and customers. [/QUOTE]LOL, well who else would be behind the closed doors, if there's anyone? I mean, do you go back there and look. Maybe when you show up the Chica's all play the enferma card and hide in the rooms and the manager has no other option but to say, "las Chicas estand ocupadas. ".

Someone told you or made you think you're smart. You must be real winner outside of this forum because you bring all these other nonrelated topics to the sex guide such as politics, Trump. Etc. More than likely, you can't get a legitimate platform anywhere else. So, you use the sex forum to showcase your so-called douchebag intellect. Couldn't make it in any academia circles, huh? Maybe we should start adding disclaimer clauses in our reports for people like you. We can call it the DB disclaimer. LOL.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2634051]Deaths per one million population per worldometer is 2491 in Colombia, 2422 in USA, and 1486 in Sweden.

Not sure what being an antivaxxer has to do with anything, but those numbers show it really was stupid for the government to have shut down and banned international travel for as long as they did.[/QUOTE]WoW! So you want to compare Sweden to the US and Colombia. I see. How about comparing Sweden to its neighbors? The countries with the most similar climate, population density and genetics?

Worldometer statistics to date:

Deaths per million:

Sweden: 1,485.

Denmark: 508.

Norway: 200.

Finland: 249.

Every way you look at the statistics the conclusion keeps coming back to one central fact. Sweden has done worse than their closest comparatives. I. E. Their neighbors.

No amount of Elvis anal--ysis is going to make the facts different than what they are. Now call Shoo (t) (the) Bree (ze) to come in and tell us again that Iraq is the best country to compare to Sweden.

[QUOTE=JjBee62;2633795]Shortening the testing window means less contagious people are getting on the crowded planes or waiting in lines in crowded airports. If a person is infected, but tests negative within 24 hours of their flight, there's a good chance they'll be away from the crowds before they are infectious. If an infected person tests negative 3 days before their flight, chances are they will be contagious before they board the plane.
[/QUOTE]They're making all this fuss about people on airplanes, and yet 20,000 pedestrians cross the border into the US from Tijuana everyday without having to show proof of covid test or vaccinations. Not to mention the other US / MEX border crossings. And they are not practicing social distancing on those crowded pedestrian lines. The people who fly are getting the short of end of the stick. It's sounds like neursosis to me.

For all you chicken littles out there sacred of a flu, I remind you that so far only about 5 millions people worldwide have died of this thing, most of them around 80 years old, or with pre-existing terminal illnesses--a small fraction-of-one-percent of the nearly 8 billion people on this planet. I personally know a 77 year old woman who got covid-19, was sick for a bit, and is now back to her jolly old self.

Like FDR said, the only thing we have to fear is fear itself. This is a pandemic of fear.

[QUOTE=Frogg;2635015]They're making all this fuss about people on airplanes, and yet 20,000 pedestrians cross the border into the US from Tijuana everyday without having to show proof of covid test or vaccinations. Not to mention the other US / MEX border crossings. And they are not practicing social distancing on those crowded pedestrian lines. The people who fly are getting the short of end of the stick. It's sounds like neursosis to me.[/QUOTE]If the Biden people were actually concerned about "crowded planes or waiting in lines in crowded airports", they would put the same testing requirements on all airline passengers, regardless of whether it's an international or domestic flight. After all, the number of cases per one million population is higher in the US than 90% of all countries and territories. If they tried to impose those requirements on domestic flights, there would be a revolution. The international fliers really are getting the short end of the stick.

[QUOTE=Frogg;2635015] This is a pandemic of fear.[/QUOTE]Sadly so, Frogg. I'm 74, had Delta Dawn in Nicaragua, including pneumonia, came through, and back in the fray. Thank god I've pretty much lived in places where the fear isn't so bad, but I feel the noose is tightening everywhere. And look at the reaction to Omicron, even though the WHO and others say they don't really know how serious it will be. But the first reaction is shut her down. Fear, fear, fear.

Well, I'm following your tracks, Frogg, and am booked for 3 days, January 1-4 in Villavicencio and hope to have half as good a time as you did.

Merry Christmas. And "tranquilo," people.

Let's keep the stupid shit in the stupid shit threads. My post was to pass on information, nothing more.

[QUOTE=Frogg;2635015]For all you chicken littles out there sacred of a flu, I remind you that so far only about 5 millions people worldwide have died of this thing, most of them around 80 years old, or with pre-existing terminal illnesses--a small fraction-of-one-percent of the nearly 8 billion people on this planet. I personally know a 77 year old woman who got covid-19, was sick for a bit, and is now back to her jolly old self.

Like FDR said, the only thing we have to fear is fear itself. This is a pandemic of fear.[/QUOTE]I'll play the game. I personally knew a 63 year old man, in excellent health, with no pre-existing conditions, who died from Covid after spending nearly 3 months in ICU. Does that mean anything? No. Just like your 77 year old woman, he was just one person.

Bringing up one person's experience immediately after mentioning the nearly 8 billion world population, as if that proves anything is one of the stupidest things I've ever seen.

I'm not going to rewrite my own experience with Covid. I'll just say it was the worst experience of my life.

At this point, anyone still referring to Covid as "a flu" is a complete, fucking, clueless moron, who shouldn't be without parental supervision.

Yo Cee Jay.

The bottom line is that you went in a certain casa once, were presented with one girl, and based on this single visit concluded that this was all they had to offer, and without ever asking the manager how many girls were busy. You then further concluded that, based on this experience, that the place is about to go out of business. Those are the points that you consistently ignore and for obvious reasons. I'll let the audience decide how foolish you are.

P.S. It makes perfect sense that you are a Trump conservative. Now all the pieces are fitting together.

[QUOTE=RamDavidson84;2634156]Paulie97,

In my opinion the safest solution regarding the spread of covid-19 would be to secure the border which our President, or my President depending on your country, is failing miserably to do anything about.[/QUOTE]Once again the biggest problem our nation has with Covid is right wingers that spurn mitigation measures such as mask wearing, social distancing and vaccinations. Data has repeatedly been posted on this thread demonstrating that red states with few exceptions have greater Covid case rates based on population since the start of the pandemic than blue states. The difference becomes all the more striking when comparing the states at the top to those at the bottom. I'll include two attachments. Republicans also make up the lion's share by far when it comes to hold outs with vaccinations. And this data has come from more neutral data collection services like World O Meter. The border in the context of Covid is a red herring fit only for propaganda networks like Fox News and the like. And you cannot completely secure the border, even while employing a ridiculous amount of resources. The border is close to 2000 miles long and includes the Rio Grande River. Stowaways can also be hidden in vehicles and we have trade agreements. So what is a red herring? Here ya go.

[URL]https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/logicalfallacies/Red-Herring[/URL]

P.S. Thanks for the congenial post.

[QUOTE=Villainy;2634986]WoW! So you want to compare Sweden to the US and Colombia. I see. How about comparing Sweden to its neighbors? The countries with the most similar climate, population density and genetics?

Worldometer statistics to date:

Deaths per million:.[/QUOTE]Actually, douche, here is a news flash, the pandemic is not over with, and point #1 is Finland, Norway, and Denmark are at all time highs with case numbers while Sweden is not.

And the same can be said about your stupid douche analysis of blue states and red states. Point #2 is right now blue states are getting killed with Covid while red states have a much smaller number of active cases.

I am not cheering on Biden having more cases and deaths than Trump did. Hell, I wish he had a plan that works, but all he is doing is more finger pointing. All you douches do is spin the numbers in an attempt to make Biden look good and Republicans look bad because Biden's plan has sucked ass.

If good governance matter with regards to Covid, point #3 is that we should be looking at fucking Africa as the best in the world.

[URL]https://www.science.org/content/article/pandemic-appears-have-spared-africa-so-far-scientists-are-struggling-explain-why[/URL]

Although Africa reported its millionth official COVID-19 case last week, it seems to have weathered the pandemic relatively well so far, with fewer than one confirmed case for every thousand people and just 23,000 deaths so far. Yet several antibody surveys suggest far more Africans have been infected with the coronavirus discrepancy that is puzzling scientists around the continent. "We do not have an answer," says immunologist Sophie Uyoga at the Kenya Medical Research Institute.

End of quote.

It is funny and here I thought you douches had all the answers. Well, whatever is going on in Africa, it is NOT due to ivermectin or hydroxychloroquine right?

Points #2 and 3 are just to counter your stupid spin that governance has jack shit to do with a virus spreading. To me, all that government does is try to take credit for something good and blame someone else for something bad.

Truth is that it did not matter who was in office, the virus kept spreading, and the Swedish approach, education and persuasion not harsh laws, is going to happen. It is just going to take a lot longer as long as politicians hope to spin that they have all the answers with Covid, and douches like you believe it.

[QUOTE=Villainy;2634986]WoW! So you want to compare Sweden to the US and Colombia. I see. How about comparing Sweden to its neighbors? The countries with the most similar climate, population density and genetics?

Worldometer statistics to date:

Deaths per million:

Sweden: 1,485.

Denmark: 508.

Norway: 200.

Finland: 249.

Every way you look at the statistics the conclusion keeps coming back to one central fact. Sweden has done worse than their closest comparatives. I. E. Their neighbors.

No amount of Elvis anal--ysis is going to make the facts different than what they are. Now call Shoo (t) (the) Bree (ze) to come in and tell us again that Iraq is the best country to compare to Sweden.[/QUOTE]It's funny how you are cherry-picking, we all know that Norway, Finland and Denmark are statistical outliers. So why are you so dishonest?

Sweden is nothing like their neighbors and have much more in common with other European countries such as the UK, France and Belgium.

The UK 2132.

France 1826.

Belgium 2343.

Sweden 1485.

Sweden is a country ravaged by gang shootings, sexual violence, uncontrolled migration and poverty.

There are way more immigrants in Sweden than in Finland, way more gang shootings than in Denmark and we are significantly less prosperous than Norway.

So why would we be the same as our neighbors when we are different in so many other aspects?

Villainy is just another ignorant libtard, he's so stupid that he actually claimed that Sweden is genetically homogeonous and a large part of wellpaying jobs in Europe are with US companies. Its weird that he has yet to present any source to his claim but still have time to make other posts.

One day he might realize that Sweden is full of Turks, Iraqis and Syrians and that those groups are extremely overrepresentated when it comes to Covid.

Also lets not forget to compare Brazil and Colombia with Peru:

Brazil 2868.

Colombia 2494.

Peru 5990.

Good night!

[QUOTE=JjBee62;2635040]I'll play the game. I personally knew a 63 year old man, in excellent health, with no pre-existing conditions, who died from Covid after spending nearly 3 months in ICU. Does that mean anything? No. Just like your 77 year old woman, he was just one person.

Bringing up one person's experience immediately after mentioning the nearly 8 billion world population, as if that proves anything is one of the stupidest things I've ever seen.

At this point, anyone still referring to Covid as "a flu" is a complete, fucking, clueless moron, who shouldn't be without parental supervision.[/QUOTE]This does not mean anything to me. People in their 60's die all the time from natural causes, even people in their 40's! The problem is you are afraid of dying of natural cause--I am not. If you lived your life well, why fear dying? I'm not afraid of the flu, of omikron, or whatever weird name you want to call it. I'f I get sick and die, too bad, I've lived happily. And yet, were all going to die--get over it. (I'm am much more frightened of car accidents, which is why I try not to spend time on the road if possible. I know of many more people whose lives have been ruined by car accidents--yet there's no outcry to stop cars on the road). Many people get covid and it does absolutely nothing to them! Yet, like Charles Darwin pointed, the survival of the species goes to the fittest. That the weak are dying only benefits our species. There are 7 billion left. Covid is nothing compared to the post 1492 pandemics that wiped out 90% of indigenous populations. What percent of the human race has died from Covid? I rest my case.

[QUOTE=JjBee62;2635040]Let's keep the stupid shit in the stupid shit threads. My post was to pass on information, nothing more.

I'll play the game. I personally knew a 63 year old man, in excellent health, with no pre-existing conditions, who died from Covid after spending nearly 3 months in ICU. Does that mean anything? No. Just like your 77 year old woman, he was just one person.

Bringing up one person's experience immediately after mentioning the nearly 8 billion world population, as if that proves anything is one of the stupidest things I've ever seen.

I'm not going to rewrite my own experience with Covid. I'll just say it was the worst experience of my life.

At this point, anyone still referring to Covid as "a flu" is a complete, fucking, clueless moron, who shouldn't be without parental supervision.[/QUOTE]Actually, Covid-19 is pretty much the same thing as the flu.

0.0% of the Swedish population age 0-70 have died with Covid-19.

[QUOTE=PolyOrchid;2635027]Sadly so, Frogg. I'm 74, had Delta Dawn in Nicaragua, including pneumonia, came through, and back in the fray. Thank god I've pretty much lived in places where the fear isn't so bad, but I feel the noose is tightening everywhere. And look at the reaction to Omicron, even though the WHO and others say they don't really know how serious it will be. But the first reaction is shut her down. Fear, fear, fear.

Well, I'm following your tracks, Frogg, and am booked for 3 days, January 1-4 in Villavicencio and hope to have half as good a time as you did.

Merry Christmas. And "tranquilo," people.[/QUOTE]Good post. The fear porn is never ending. South Park did a good episode on the new variant that hits South Park. The propagandists have entire university sectors teaching marketing. Advertising is a huge industry. They know howq to manipulate people.

You may not be "The Greatest Generation" but you are am ong the last cohort that had independent thinking faculties.

[QUOTE=Frogg;2635319]This does not mean anything to me. People in their 60's die all the time from natural causes, even people in their 40's! The problem is you are afraid of dying of natural cause--I am not. If you lived your life well, why fear dying? I'm not afraid of the flu, of omikron, or whatever weird name you want to call it. I'f I get sick and die, too bad, I've lived happily. And yet, were all going to die--get over it. (I'm am much more frightened of car accidents, which is why I try not to spend time on the road if possible. I know of many more people whose lives have been ruimed by car accidents--yet there's no outcry to stop cars on the road). Many people get covid and it does absolutely nothing to them! Yet, like Charles Darwin pointed, the survival of the species goes to the fittest. That the weak are dying only benefits our species. There are 7 billion left. Covid is nothing compared to the post 1492 pandemics that wiped out 90% of indigenous populations. What percent of the human race has died from Covid? I rest my case.[/QUOTE]I really believe the majority if people dying from it are vitamin the deficient and don't know it. Probably deficient in other immune system vitamins as well. I take 10 to 15 k iu of vitamin d3 daily, a shit ton if since and 1000 MG of vitamin see like 2 to 3 times daily or every hour if I'm feeling under the weather. I also try to eat as many antioxidant vegetables as well.

Pretty sure I had covid last month. It was an on and off again flu like sickness that last for 5 to 6 weeks. At one point my chest got really bad and I experienced shortness of breath. I feel like if I had not been mega dosing vitamin the and zinc daily that one could have killed me because it was a very persistent sickness that worked in waves. I did notice that once I started taking 1000 MG of vitamin see every hour of the waking day I seemed to recover faster.

[QUOTE=Paulie97;2635084]Once again the biggest problem our nation has with Covid is right wingers that spurn mitigation measures such as mask wearing, social distancing and vaccinations. Data has repeatedly been posted on this thread demonstrating that red states with few exceptions have greater Covid case rates based on population since the start of the pandemic than blue states. The difference becomes all the more striking when comparing the states at the top to those at the bottom. I'll include two attachments. Republicans also make up the lion's share by far when it comes to hold outs with vaccinations. And this data has come from more neutral data collection services like World O Meter. The border in the context of Covid is a red herring fit only for propaganda networks like Fox News and the like. And you cannot completely secure the border, even while employing a ridiculous amount of resources. The border is close to 2000 miles long and includes the Rio Grande River. Stowaways can also be hidden in vehicles and we have trade agreements. So what is a red herring? Here ya go.

[URL]https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/logicalfallacies/Red-Herring[/URL]

P.S. Thanks for the congenial post.[/QUOTE]Hey Paulie,

These are all complex issues and again I want to state that this is just my opinion. Regarding covid, I think the biggest problem which no one is speaking about is how the vaccines don't seem to be anywhere near 95-90% effective like they were supposed to be. The virus seems to have spread just as easily before and after the vaccinations began and I understand there will be a plethora of statistics to argue against my point. If you look at the numbers of daily infections around the nation and even other nations, the virus still hasn't been mitigated and the vaccines have been out almost a year. With 60% of the USA population vaccinated and another 50 million confirmed cases, "not counting unconfirmed cases", we should have hit some level of heard immunity which we haven't yet. I attribute much of this due to the false effectiveness of the vaccines. Yes, I could absolutely be wrong. I am also completely aware of how the American media portrays the people who are anti-vaccine as being mostly conservative. That being said, from my experience, Anti-vaccination has much more to do with age, health, and not being able to miss work for several days while you are recovering from the vaccine. Younger healthier adults from both conservative and liberal backgrounds don't feel as threatened by the virus and are not as likely to get the vaccine. I have never actually met someone who fits the liberal narrative of a right wing "anti-vaxer", yes I am sure they are out there, but I don't think they are anywhere as numerous as the liberal media would try to make you believe. It reminds me of the Q-NON weirdos the left tries to associate with conservatives. The vast vast vast majority of conservatives would never associate with such non-sense.

I also agree with you on the fact we should be publicly wearing masks, distancing when necessary, and if you are healthy enough-to get the vaccine. Due to the speed at which the vaccine was created, I don't believe it should mandatory outside public sector employment and I even feel maybe public employees should be able to choose for themselves about what to do with their own health regarding such an unproven vaccine.

Yes of course it would be almost impossible to secure a 2000 mile long border, I am not saying Biden has to secure it 100%, but he could put more effective measures in place to protect the Americans and Mexicans living along the border and just as importantly, take away the economic opportunities for drug cartels to cash in on with an unsecured border. I know it sounds ridiculous, but when you look into it, a nation with the resources of the USA could secure such a vast distance, it wouldn't be as expensive you might think. It does seem to be more feasible than many realize. The previous administration was much more effective at stopping illegal immigration and I am personally quite angry this administration cares so little for all who are victims of an unsecured border. It seems like they are so dismissive of border problems just to spite Trump and his supporters which is sad.

I think a much better solution to the immigration crisis, and I believe is should be referred to as a crisis, would be to create a much easier form of temporary immigration where immigrants can live and work in the USA, pay taxes and have their children schooled here, but they do not get the right to vote or access to certain welfare services. Such a compromise could alleviate much of the problems stemming from unchecked migration. Dems and Republicans would never be able to put their differences aside for such a compromise though.

[QUOTE=Frogg;2635319]This does not mean anything to me. People in their 60's die all the time from natural causes, even people in their 40's! The problem is you are afraid of dying of natural cause--I am not. If you lived your life well, why fear dying? I'm not afraid of the flu, of omikron, or whatever weird name you want to call it. I'f I get sick and die, too bad, I've lived happily. And yet, were all going to die--get over it. (I'm am much more frightened of car accidents, which is why I try not to spend time on the road if possible. I know of many more people whose lives have been ruimed by car accidents--yet there's no outcry to stop cars on the road). Many people get covid and it does absolutely nothing to them! Yet, like Charles Darwin pointed, the survival of the species goes to the fittest. That the weak are dying only benefits our species. There are 7 billion left. Covid is nothing compared to the post 1492 pandemics that wiped out 90% of indigenous populations. What percent of the human race has died from Covid? I rest my case.[/QUOTE]I already rested my case, thanks for proving my point:

[QUOTE]At this point, anyone still referring to Covid as "a flu" is a complete, fucking, clueless moron, who shouldn't be without parental supervision.[/QUOTE]Good job failing to understand the process of natural selection. Fittest refers to the passing on of DNA. A disease which primarily affects people who are past the age of reproduction has no effect on improving the species.

It's not a competition. You don't have to try to come up with something stupider every post. Or does it just come naturally?

Let me combine your thoughtless thoughts. Are you saying that the indigenous people of south and central America benefitted greatly from having 90% killed by disease?

[QUOTE=HighOnTravel;2635329]I really believe the majority if people dying from it are vitamin the deficient and don't know it. Probably deficient in other immune system vitamins as well. I take 10 to 15 k iu of vitamin d3 daily, a shit ton if since and 1000 MG of vitamin see like 2 to 3 times daily or every hour if I'm feeling under the weather. I also try to eat as many antioxidant vegetables as well.

Pretty sure I had covid last month. It was an on and off again flu like sickness that last for 5 to 6 weeks. At one point my chest got really bad and I experienced shortness of breath. I feel like if I had not been mega dosing vitamin the and zinc daily that one could have killed me because it was a very persistent sickness that worked in waves. I did notice that once I started taking 1000 MG of vitamin see every hour of the waking day I seemed to recover faster.[/QUOTE]Really? After 2 years of study by practically every health organization in the world, the solution comes from someone who stays fucked up on any kind of drug he can find, mixing and matching them with no regard for the possible interactions?

I'm sure the Nobel committee will be in touch soon.

It's not a pandemic of fear, it's a fucking plague of idiots.

[QUOTE=ShooBree;2635324]Actually, Covid-19 is pretty much the same thing as the flu.

0.0% of the Swedish population age 0-70 have died with Covid-19.[/QUOTE]You're an idiot - 15000 Swedes have died from COVID. Not as many as americans but they're more vaccinated.

[QUOTE=JjBee62;2635381]Really? After 2 years of study by practically every health organization in the world, the solution comes from someone who stays fucked up on any kind of drug he can find, mixing and matching them with no regard for the possible interactions?

I'm sure the Nobel committee will be in touch soon.

It's not a pandemic of fear, it's a fucking plague of idiots.[/QUOTE]I love it. Plague of idiots. I'm so sick of this shit. If these chucklefucks would get vaccinated this would be over.

[QUOTE=RamDavidson84;2635346] Anti-vaccination has much more to do with age, health, and not being able to miss work for several days while you are recovering from the vaccine.[/QUOTE]I know hundreds and hundreds of people who got the vax and don't know of a single one who missed work recovering. Zero. Maybe if you had to use your non-dominant arm all day long, maybe you'd miss one day. I got the Moderna and had absolutely zero side effects either shot. I had a sore arm, but that's not a side effect, and I could have swung a sledgehammer or whatever the next day.

[QUOTE=JjBee62;2635377]Fittest refers to the passing on of DNA. A disease which primarily affects people who are past the age of reproduction has no effect on improving the species.

Are you saying that the indigenous people of south and central America benefitted greatly from having 90% killed by disease?[/QUOTE]By this reasoning, we should not care at all that the old die. Yet, it's the old people who have highjacked society for rest of us, with their vaccine mandates and shutdowns, thinking they are going to be immortal.

The indigenous survivors, their descendants, and the species as a whole benefited. Now we have a globalized world. Isn't that what you're doing by going to Colombia, international business?

[QUOTE=JjBee62;2635381]It's not a pandemic of fear, it's a fucking plague of idiots.[/QUOTE]Yeah, you do not get to say that after what you have done. Go back and crawl into your hole douche.

[QUOTE=ShooBree;2635324]Actually, Covid-19 is pretty much the same thing as the flu.

0.0% of the Swedish population age 0-70 have died with Covid-19.[/QUOTE]As is so often the case Shoo (t) (the) Bree (ze) doesn't know what he is talking about. He (or she) never bothers to verifiy anything he says which means nothing he says can be trusted.

11% of Swedish deaths from CoVid-19 are in the less than 70 age groups.

[URL]https://www.statista.com/statistics/1107913/number-of-coronavirus-deaths-in-sweden-by-age-groups/[/URL]

[QUOTE=Frogg;2635408]By this reasoning, we should not care at all that the old die. Yet, it's the old people who have highjacked society for rest of us, with their vaccine mandates and shutdowns, thinking they are going to be immortal.

The indigenous survivors, their descedants, and the species as a whole benefited. Now we have a globalized world. Isn't that what you're doing by going to Colombia, international buisness?[/QUOTE]If you're an ant****ial douchebag, you shouldn't care if old people die. However, for most of those old people who you seem happy to watch perish, there are young people who care about them and learn from them.

As a borderline old person, probably already old in your opinion, I can tell you old people don't think they are immortal. Most are well aware that their remaining time is limited. It's hard not.

To notice when all the people you grew up with start dying.

The old people didn't hijack anything, at least not in an attempt at immortality. All the shutdowns, all the mandates are business decisions. Replacing employees is expensive, cutting productivity is expensive. Having entire schools infected and spreading Covid to everyone around them. Not to mention the strain upon our healthcare system, and the lack of available resources necessary for routine health management.

Finally, let me just clarify about the indigenous people of south America. In 1492 they were self ruled, had public services, culture, government and large cities. Now, they work the hardest, lowest pay. They are mostly mired in poverty and live precariously. Doesn't sound like much of an improvement.

[QUOTE=JjBee62;2635381]Really? After 2 years of study by practically every health organization in the world, the solution comes from someone who stays fucked up on any kind of drug he can find, mixing and matching them with no regard for the possible interactions?

I'm sure the Nobel committee will be in touch soon.

It's not a pandemic of fear, it's a fucking plague of idiots.[/QUOTE]Yet I'm never addicted to any single substance. Why is that? Because I am smart. I never abuse anything for two long without getting it out of my system properly and rotating to something else.

I also eat very healthy, do very strenuous cardio keep a lot of good bacteria in my gut through fermented foods and stay well stocked on vitamins. I do swimming and qigong as well that I learned from a real master in a small rural town in Taiwan years ago not some vague youtube BS.

Vitamin the controls thousands of aspects of your body. You should research it more. Of course the big pharmaceutical companies would prefer you to stay ignorant. And if you trust WHO then you are an actual sub 80 IQ brainlet.

Go get your vitamin the levels tested. The average person has very low levels. It takes months of proper supplementation to accumulate high levels. If you wait until you are already sick it's too late. You can't just increase your levels in a few days. Doesn't work like that. Your body also doesn't absorb calcium well with low levels, prone to high blood pressure, stroke heart disease. The list goes on.

My mom when she was 65 and was very the deficient looked and walked like she was 80. Brittle bones low calcium very weak in general. I got her on a high vitamin the daily dose and after half a year to a year she started turning back to her old self. Now she is 70 and in better health than ever and goes off on big shopping trips pike she did in her youth and very happy. Combine that with zinc and other stuff and take precautions. Fuck injecting something that can alter your DNA.

[QUOTE=JjBee62;2635381]Really? After 2 years of study by practically every health organization in the world, the solution comes from someone who stays fucked up on any kind of drug he can find, mixing and matching them with no regard for the possible interactions?

I'm sure the Nobel committee will be in touch soon.

It's not a pandemic of fear, it's a fucking plague of idiots.[/QUOTE]A plague of idiots? More people literally die from driving their cars everyday and cigarettes each year.

If you know how to eat right, supplement and exercise then your body is a lot more powerful / smarter than you think.

Sheep like you are literally cattle for these big companies herding in and profiting off of all of this. Spreading your silly fear mongering everywhere left and right. I personally feel way more at risk of something bad happening just driving my car each day back home in Atlanta traffic than I do with covid.

Pussies like you who don't know how to fend for ourselves are why we have to wear these stupid fucking masks every day. Imagine growing up as a child in this era only knowing to be masked at all times. I value my natural rights and freedom clearly you do not.

And BTW I was in Wuhan when this stupid covid stuff first broke out. China locked their shit up fast after letting it get put to the rest of the world. I was in total lockdown over there then was finally flown out. Not scared of it then and certainly am not scared of it now.

Just a bunch of decrepit 60-70 year olds like jjbee, huancho, villainy, paulie spending their last 5-10 years on earth screaming into the ether "PLAGUE RATS! GET THE DAMN JAB!

Lmao I really hope it gets better for you guys, I can't imagine being this angry everyday.

[QUOTE=ShooBree;2635324]Actually, Covid-19 is pretty much the same thing as the flu.
0.0% of the Swedish population age 0-70 have died with Covid-19.[/QUOTE]You are correct SB. As of 3 Nov 2021, 2.663 Swedes aged 0-70 have died from CV. That's out of roughly 8.500.000 people aged 0-70, and represents 0.03% . Or 0.0 to the nearest 1 decimal point, as you state. The criminal that tries to ridicule you seems to think that by presenting a different equation he can refute your metric. No. You are correct. Over the almost 2 years of CV in Sweden, the death rate of swedes aged 0-70, is 0.0% (0 03%.

The fact that CV deaths of those aged 0-70 represents 11% of total CV deaths, just goes to illustrate how few deaths there have been in total in Sweden.

[QUOTE=HighOnTravel;2635643]A plague of idiots? More people literally die from driving their cars everyday and cigarettes each year.[/QUOTE]People who smoke cigarettes are idiots, though, is the thing.

[QUOTE=HighOnTravel;2635643]Sheep like you are literally cattle[/QUOTE]I'll just let that beauty stand on its own.

[QUOTE=Villainy;2635577]As is so often the case Shoo (t) (the) Bree (ze) doesn't know what he is talking about. He (or she) never bothers to verifiy anything he says which means nothing he says can be trusted.

11% of Swedish deaths from CoVid-19 are in the less than 70 age groups.

[URL]https://www.statista.com/statistics/1107913/number-of-coronavirus-deaths-in-sweden-by-age-groups/[/URL][/QUOTE]Here you go embarrassing yourself again. Are you really from USA? You can't even read or understand regular English.

0. 0% of the Swedish population 0-70 years old have died with Covid-19.

1684 deaths / 8'800'000 Swedes (0-70 years old) = 0. 0 %.

Stop embarrassing yourself.

You are a stupid liar. You should apologize.

[QUOTE=Norbert61;2635391]I love it. Plague of idiots. I'm so sick of this shit. If these chucklefucks would get vaccinated this would be over.[/QUOTE]What would be over? People get infected and die with Covid-19 even though they are double vaccinated.

You won't be seeing any unvaccinated non residents here beginning December 14.

[QUOTE=JohnnyWalker55;2635658]Just a bunch of decrepit 60-70 year olds like jjbee, huancho, villainy, paulie spending their last 5-10 years on earth screaming into the ether "PLAGUE RATS! GET THE DAMN JAB!

Lmao I really hope it gets better for you guys, I can't imagine being this angry everyday.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Huacho;2635398]I know hundreds and hundreds of people who got the vax and don't know of a single one who missed work recovering. Zero. Maybe if you had to use your non-dominant arm all day long, maybe you'd miss one day. I got the Moderna and had absolutely zero side effects either shot. I had a sore arm, but that's not a side effect, and I could have swung a sledgehammer or whatever the next day.[/QUOTE]Just curious, how did you verify how sick hundreds and hundreds of people felt after the vaccine? I felt awful for two days after the first shot and for a day after the second shot. No way I could have done a manual labor job the next day. Well maybe, but it would have been absolutely miserable. Interestingly enough, the older people who got the shot I spoke with said it wasn't that bad for them. I definitely didn't speak extensively with hundreds of different people about their reaction to the vaccine though.

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2635219]The president said, "Cuando una persona tiene una prueba negativa, eso no quiere decir que de pronto no pueda tener el virus. " When a person has a negative test it does not mean they will not suddenly have the virus.

??? neither does having a vaccination card.

[URL]https://m.elcolombiano.com/colombia/salud/viajeros-internacionales-necesitan-carnet-de-vacunacion-anticovid-para-entrar-a-colombia-BE16124234[/URL][/QUOTE]Just polish up your fake vaccination card and hope there's no consequences. All the crying in the world in a hooker forum won't change these policies. Not to mention that a lot of us are tired of listening to it.

[QUOTE=ShooBree;2635718]Here you go embarrassing yourself again. Are you really from USA? You can't even read or understand regular English.

0. 0% of the Swedish population 0-70 years old have died with Covid-19.

1684 deaths / 8'800'000 Swedes (0-70 years old) = 0. 0 %.

Stop embarrassing yourself.

You are a stupid liar. You should apologize.[/QUOTE]OH I see now. You were dazzling the world with your statistical prowess. 0% of Swedes between 0 and 70 died of CoVid. Gee the world wide rate of CoVid is 3.35%. The world wide death rate is 0. 0665%.

So I guess using your statistical prowess you could say that 0% of all the people in the world have died of CoVid.

But of course this comes from a statistical wizard that thinks that CoVid cases are more closely related to "by gang shootings, sexual violence, uncontrolled migration and poverty" and therefore the best comparison for Sweden is anybody but their neighbors.

If anyone should apologize, I think it should be your parents. They should have sent you to a school that teaches arithmetic and simple comparisons.

[QUOTE=Villainy;2635773]OH I see now. You were dazzling the world with your statistical prowess. 0% of Swedes between 0 and 70 died of CoVid. Gee the world wide rate of CoVid is 3.35%. The world wide death rate is 0. 0665%.

So I guess using your statistical prowess you could say that 0% of all the people in the world have died of CoVid.

But of course this comes from a statistical wizard that thinks that CoVid cases are more closely related to "by gang shootings, sexual violence, uncontrolled migration and poverty" and therefore the best comparison for Sweden is anybody but their neighbors.

If anyone should apologize, I think it should be your parents. They should have sent you to a school that teaches arithmetic and simple comparisons.[/QUOTE]Yep, the only reply was insults while repeating the same lies over again, and of course also while ignoring your statistical refutation with source citation. That's impressive indeed, and on the intellectual level of a teenage twerp in a Swedish basement, nada mas.

[QUOTE=Paulie97;2635778]Yep, the only reply was insults while repeating the same lies over again, and of course also while ignoring your statistical refutation with source citation. That's impressive indeed, and on the intellectual level of a teenage twerp in a Swedish basement, nada mas.[/QUOTE]Well said Paulie.

Well, Shoo Bree (if he isn't Elvis in drag) isn't exactly an intellectual. He thinks that no one died of CoVid because it is 0% and that other giant of statistical wizardry (JustTK) agrees with him. I guess we can all go back to our lives since 0% die from CoVid.

[QUOTE=HighOnTravel;2635635]Vitamin the controls thousands of aspects of your body. You should research it more. Of course the big pharmaceutical companies would prefer you to stay ignorant. And if you trust WHO then you are an actual sub 80 IQ brainlet.[/QUOTE]The software on this site screws up some things you want to say. Vitamin "the" is Vitamin D, probably D3. Please correct me if I am wrong.

[QUOTE=Villainy;2635773]OH I see now. You were dazzling the world with your statistical prowess. 0% of Swedes between 0 and 70 died of CoVid. Gee the world wide rate of CoVid is 3.35%. The world wide death rate is 0. 0665%.

So I guess using your statistical prowess you could say that 0% of all the people in the world have died of CoVid.

But of course this comes from a statistical wizard that thinks that CoVid cases are more closely related to "by gang shootings, sexual violence, uncontrolled migration and poverty" and therefore the best comparison for Sweden is anybody but their neighbors.

If anyone should apologize, I think it should be your parents. They should have sent you to a school that teaches arithmetic and simple comparisons.[/QUOTE]LMFAO! It amazes me how you manage to be wrong on point after point and yet you do your best to keep deflecting. For fuck sake, you're an old demented retard who can't even understand your native language.

If you don't understand something is it simply a result of you being too dumb to get it.

Anyways, you're statistically more likely to get murdered in Colombia than what it's for a Swede in the age 0-69 to die with Covid-19.

Perhaps it's because I'm English, or perhaps it's my age, or perhaps it's just blind prejudice, but when I wake to the news that the Austrian government has interned an entire third of its national population as a 'danger to public health', a chill runs down my spine.

Austria, I think to myself. Ah.

I look at the news photos of armed, masked, black-clad police stopping people in the streets to ask for their digital papers, and I read stories of others arrested for leaving their own house more than the permitted once a day, and I hear Austrian politicians intoning that those who refuse to accede to the injection are to be shunned and scapegoated until they acquiesce. Then I watch interviews with 'ordinary people', and they say that the 'unvaxxed' had it coming. Some of them say that they should all be jailed, these enemies of the people. At best, the 'anti-vaxxers' are paranoid and misinformed. At worst they are malicious, and should be punished.

A few days later I wake up to some more news about Austria: from next year, everyone in the country will have a covid vaccine forced into them by the state, overriding their right to what certain people, who have gone very quiet recently, used to call 'bodily autonomy. '.

Then I look across the border at Germany. I see that in Germany, politicians are also considering interning the 'vaccine hesitant', and are currently discussing forcing vaccination upon every citizen. By the end of the winter, says Germany's refreshingly honest health minister, Germans will be 'vaccinated, cured or dead. ' There is apparently no fourth option.

They have been busy in Germany. Recently they put up fences in Hamburg to separate the Bad Unvaxxed from the Good Vaxxed at the Christmas markets. Outdoors. Perhaps they will also provide the Good people with rocks to throw across those fences. When I see cartoons like the one at the top of this page, which recently appeared in a mainstream German newspaper, I think that this may not be far off. Here, the man on the sofa has bought himself a first-person shooter game in which he can having fun killing unvaccinated people. It will be, says the cartoonist, 'a big hit under the Christmas tree. '.

Ha ha ha, I think. Germany. Fences. Internment. Forced injections. Armed police. Scan your code. Kill the unvaxxed.

Ha ha ha.

I am watching all this from Ireland, the country which has the highest adult vaccination rate in Western Europe, at over 94% of the population. At the same time, curiously, we have some of the highest covid infection rates in Western Europe too. The government has not been able to explain this fact, but it is a trend that has recently manifested in some other highly-vaccinated places too: Gibraltar, Israel, West Flanders. High levels of vaccination do not seem to correspond with low-levels of disease; often quite the opposite.

In other parts of the world, strange things are happening too. Africa, for example. Africa's population is the largest, fastest-growing and materially poorest of any continent. Few governments there can afford to supply their people with the pricey corporate vaccines which we in the West have staked our nations on. Only 6% of Africa's population is vaccinated, and national healthcare systems barely exist in many places, yet the WHO describes the continent as 'one of the least affected regions in the world' by the virus. In fact, the richer, more 'developed' parts of the world seem to be suffering worst from the pandemic.

Nobody seems to be able to explain any of this, but that hasn't changed the official direction of travel. Certainly in Ireland, the script remains the same. For six months we have been living with vaccine apartheid, with the 'unvaxxed' excluded from much of society, but it hasn't worked. Rates of infection are shooting up as winter arrives. As you might expect with a respiratory virus. We were all told recently to work from home, and another lockdown is on the cards. A midnight curfew has recently been imposed on pubs and nightclubs. This is odd, as only vaccinated people have been allowed into them for months, and we have repeatedly been assured that vaccinated people are safe to be around.

In an honest society, all of this would have been subject to robust public debate. We would have seen scientists of all opinions openly debating on TV and radio and in the press; views of all kinds aired on social media; journalists properly investigating reports of both vaccine successes and vaccine dangers; serious explorations of alternative treatments; public debates about the balance between civil liberties and public health, and what 'public health' even means. But we have not seen this and we will not see it, for debate, like dissent, is out of fashion. The media here in Ireland has not asked a critical question of anyone in authority for at least eighteen months. Google's algorithms are busy burying inconvenient data, while the social media channels from which most people receive their worldview are removing or suppressing critical opinions, even if they come from virologists or editors of the British Medical Journal.

Day after day, I have been waking and wondering: what is going on?

Internment. Mandatory medication. Segregation of whole sections of society. Mass sackings. A drumbeat media consensus. The systematic censoring of dissent. The deliberate creation by the state and the press of a climate of fear and suspicion. What could possibly justify this? Perhaps the combination of a terrible pandemic which killed or maimed large percentages of those it infected, and the existence of a safe and reliable medicine which was proven to prevent its spread. This, of course, is what we are said to be living through. This is the Narrative.

But it is clear enough by now that the Narrative is not true. Covid-19 is a nasty illness which should be taken seriously, especially by those who are especially vulnerable to it. But it is nowhere near dangerous enough. If anything could be. To justify the creation of a global police state. As for the vaccines. Well, let's just acknowledge that vaccination has become a subject which it is virtually impossible to discuss with any calmness or clarity, at least in public. As with almost every other big issue in the West today, opinion is divided along tribal lines and filtered through the foetid swamp of anti-social media, to emerge monstrous and dripping into the light.

Often, in an argument, what people think they are arguing about is not the real subject of disagreement, which is deeper and often unspoken, if it is even understood. So it is here. The divisions that have opened up in society about the covid vaccines are not really about the covid vaccines at all: they are about what vaccination symbolises in this moment. What it means to be 'vaxxed' or 'unvaxxed', safe or dangerous, clean or dirty, sensible or irresponsible, compliant or independent: these are questions about what it means to be a good member of society, and what society even is, and they are detonating like depth charges beneath the surface of the culture.

This is not to say that the surface disagreements don't matter. They do. There are plenty of good reasons to be concerned about these medications and their enforced use. Here we have a novel technology, never before used at scale or for this purpose, used to create a series of vaccines which have been rolled out to millions before their clinical trials are even complete. This is an unprecendented situation. As is vaccination for a respiratory virus in the middle of a pandemic, which some people with serious expertise warn may worsen the sitution rather than end it. The companies manufacturing these things are making equally unprecedented hourly profits, and their long histories of dishonesty and cover-ups, plus the fact that they are legally immune from any liability for problems arising from these vaccines, makes it impossible to take seriously their assurances of safety. And when we witness an active state / media campaign against early treatment of a disease. The precise opposite of what every doctor is taught at medical school. Along with a refusal to report any of the mounting evidence of short-term side-effects, it ought to be clear that something is happening which cannot be explained by the story we are being told.

For all these reasons and more, I have not been vaccinated against covid, and I don't plan to be. This does not make me 'anti-vax' - a category that is designed to feed into the ongoing culture war narrative which separates the good from the bad people, and leads both sides in that war to demonise the other. I am not against vaccination, and I certainly wouldn't imagine I had a right to tell others what to do with their bodies. I don't believe that the available covid vaccines are ineffective. Though they do not do what they were sold to us as doing. And I can see plenty of reasons for people, especially vulnerable people, to take them if they choose.

I expect that readers of this essay could argue with me about my decision if they felt like it, and I expect I could argue back. This is what much of the world has been doing sine these vaccines arrived on the scene. We could all throw peer-reviewed studies that we don't really understand at each other, and they would all miss the mark because the vaccine is not the point. The point is what it symbolises. And what it is being used to build.

I am a writer. I know how to construct stories. I know what makes them succeed or fail, and I have a nose for when a story does not hang together. The covid Narrative is just such a story. It doesn't fit together, even on its own terms. Something is wrong. The surface tale does not reflect what lies beneath. And what lies beneath is what interests me now.

We live in an apocalyptic time, in the original sense of the Greek word apokalypsis: revelation. What is happening on the surface is revealing what has always lain beneath, but which in normal times is hidden from view. All of the action now is in the underworld. Beneath the arguments about whether or not to take a vaccine that may or may not work safely, glides something older, deeper, slower: something with all the time in the world. Some great spirit whose work is to use these fractured times to reveal to us all what we need to see: things hidden since the foundation of the modern world.

Covid is a revelation. It has lain bare splits in the social fabric that were always there but could be ignored in better times. It has revealed the compliance of the legacy media and the power of Silicon Valley to curate and control the public conversation. It has confirmed the sly dishonesty of political leaders, and their ultimate obeisance to corporate power. It has shown up 'The Science' for the compromised ideology it is.

Most of all, it has revealed the authoritarian streak that lies beneath so many people, and which always emerges in fearful times. In the last month alone I have watched media commentators calling for censorship of their political opponents, philosophy professors justifying mass internment, and human rights lobby groups remaining silent about 'vaccine passports. ' I have watched much of the political left transition openly into the authoritarian movement it probably always was, and countless 'liberals' campaigning against liberty. As freedom after freedom has been taken away, I have watched intellectual after intellectual justify it all. I have been reminded of what I always knew: cleverness has no relationship to wisdom.

I have learnt more about human nature in the last two years than in my preceding forty-seven. I have learnt some things about myself too, and I don't especially like them either. I have noticed my ongoing temptation to become a partisan: to judge and condemn those on the other side of the question. Those sheeple, those malicious enemies of Truth. I have noticed my tendency to seek out only sources of information which confirm my beliefs. Revelation is never comfortable.

Most of all, though, what the covid apocalypse has revealed to me is that when people are frightened, they can be easily controlled.

Control: this is the story of the times. Across the world we are seeing an unprecedented claim to control staked by the forces of the state, in alliance with the forces of corporate capital, over your life and mine. All of it converges on the revealed symbol of our age: the smartphone-enabled QR code that has, with frightening speed and in near-silence, become the new passport to a full human life. As ever, our tools have turned on us. Another revelation: they were never our tools to begin with. We were theirs.

Amongst the vast flock of contested facts that wheel around this virus like a murmuration of starlings, darkening the skies and addling the mind, one stands out. It is the single fact that blows a cathedral-shaped hole in the strategy being pursued by governments at present, and which offers a glimpse into the crypt. It is the fact that these vaccines, whatever their efficacy in other areas, do not prevent transmission of the virus.

This single fact. Which has long been known but is barely ever mentioned. Blows apart the case for vaccine passports, segregation, lockdowns of the 'unvaxxed' and all such similar measures. Even if you believe (or pretend to) that this virus is dangerous enough to justify the radical new forms of authoritarianism which have emerged around it. And I certainly don't. Those forms will fail anyway if both vaccinated and unvaccinated people can spread it; which we know they can.

What, then, can be the justification for the system of technological control and monitoring which has arisen around us with curious speed and smoothness over the last year? And what could explain the strangely similar language in which the world's governments explain and justify this system, which so many have adopted in similar ways with similar technologies in similar timeframes? That the 'unvaxxed' are a danger to society, and that the 'vaxxed' must be protected from them is the pretext. But as we are seeing on the ground in Ireland, the pretext is baseless.

If we were operating, as we pretend to be, from the ground of reason. If we really were 'following The Science' - then we would be dismantling these systems at this point. Instead we are moving deeper into them. We are being herded into a future in which scanning a code to prove you are a safe and obedient member of society will be a permanent feature of life, as unquestioned as credit cards and driver's licences. We are moving towards enforced mandatory vaccination of entire populations. Including children. And prison sentences for those who refuse. By winter's end, we could be living in a world in which the state has taken full charge of our bodies, and our only chance of remaining active members of society is to submit to their every instruction, and agree to permanent digital monitoring to prove our compliance.

Eighteen months ago, anyone suggesting that this would be the direction of travel when this virus arrived in town would have been dismissed as a paranoid David Icke fanboy. But over that eighteen months we have moved smoothly from 'two weeks to flatten the curve' to 'mandatory injections to avoid prison. ' We have normalised this, and accepted it. We have not asked questions. Those who have dissented have been censored, silenced, bullied and abused.

Even as I was writing this essay, the situations in Germany and Austria were eclipsed by news from Down Under. This weekend, the Australian army began shifting covid-infected people into state-run camps. Parts of the Northern Territories of Australia have entered a 'hard lockdown', in which nobody can leave their house for any reason at all except for urgent medical treatment. Those who have contracted the virus, or simply been in contact with someone who has, will now be forcibly 'transferred' by soldiers to a government-run camp where they will be held until the state decrees they are safe enough to be released.

These 'mandatory supervised quarantine facilities' have been used to quarantine incoming travellers for the last year. Now they are being used to 'contain' Australian citizens. You can watch this measure being announced by the government here. You can see another Australian politician fulminating about the 'unvaxxed' and what he would like to do to them here. If after this you are not filled with foreboding, then I don't know what to say to you.

My own sense of foreboding is deepening daily. Beneath the surface, down in those depths, I am far from the only one who can see what is emerging. The Narrative does not hang together, the story does not gel, but it is doing its job nonetheless. It is being used to summon forth and justify an unprecedented authoritarian technocracy which is hemming us all in with no consent, no debate, and no right to opt out.

In a short but momentous two years, this is who we have become. We in the West, who have spent decades, if not centuries, lecturing the rest of the world about 'freedom', and sometimes trying to bomb them into accepting it. We who invented this thing called 'liberalism'; we who are now burying it. It didn't take much, did it, for our words to be revealed as hollow?

Nearly a decade ago, I wrote an essay called The Barcode Moment. It's collected in my book Confessions of a Recovering Environmentalist, but you can also read the original version, in three parts, here, here and here. It was about the advance of intrusive technologies, and the question it posed was: where will you draw your line? I was trying to work out for myself the answer to this question, which has nagged at me for years. At what moment does the direction of travel of the Machine become so obvious, so intolerable, so frightening, that you can no longer acquiesce? What is the breaking point? For some people it was smartphones. For others it might have been social media. These days I think that the really smart people stepped off the carousel at dial-up modems and went quietly into the woods.

That essay was easy to write compared to this one. Ten years ago, I shivered at the sight of Google's new Glass technology, which in retrospect was an early shot at a prototype metaverse, and wrote about what it might portend. It turns out that it's a dozen times easier to write about a future of technological control that might be around the corner than it is to write about it as it manifests around you.

But this is what is happening today. Over the last six months I have been writing about the evolution of the vast grid of technological control that I call the Machine: where it came from, what powers it, how we manifest it in our culture and in our individual lives. Over the next few months, I was planning to write about how it manifests in the here and now, in our politics, society and culture. I will still be doing that, but I find myself being overtaken by events. By the time I finish writing these essays, we will be living in a very different world to the one we lived in when I started them. We already are.

The covid pandemic has proven to be the perfect controlled experiment for the rollout of the next stage of the Machine's evolution. This is the missing piece of the jigsaw puzzle without which the rest cannot be deciphered. The Narrative does not make sense until we understand that we are watching a new, radical form of techno-authoritarianism unfold before our eyes. It is not an accident, and it is not temporary. In the EU, Smartphone-enabled vaccine passes have been on the cards since at least 2018. The entire pandemic scenario was wargamed less than a year before it happened. The technology was ready, and the tightening of the ratchet long anticipated. All that was needed was a trigger event. As I wrote in my last essay here, the future in a collapsing society is a combination of both breakdown and clampdown. So it begins.

No 'conspiracy theory' is required for this to be true. It doesn't mean that the virus is not real or dangerous, or that Bill Gates wants to inject you with microchips (well, he might, but that's a separate conversation.) No hidden cabal of people needs to be in control. The people who are in control. Or at least, who aspire to be. Are out in plain sight, and have been for years, and most of us either don't notice or don't care. We are too busy playing with the toys they make for us. And what is the line between Them and Us, and how blurred is it?

What we are seeing is the Machine doing what it always does; what I have traced through its history for the past six months. It is taking advantage of events to cement its dominance. It is colonising our societies and our bodies and our minds. It is replacing nature with technology, and culture with commerce. It is making us parts in its operational matrix, and it is using our fear to justify its tightening grip. When we are afraid, we welcome control, we welcome authoritarianism, we welcome strong leaders who will save Us by excluding Them. We willingly give up our freedom for safety, and end up with neither. Our fear leads us by the hand towards the next stage of our long journey away from Earth and into artifice; away from human freedom and into the digital net.

Perhaps you think this sounds exaggerated. Hysterical, even. Just a few months ago I might have agreed. A year ago, I almost certainly would. But a year ago I had not seen what I have seen now. I had not seen the smartphone passports, the QR scanners, the meek public compliance, the deliberate whipping up of fear and hatred by political leaders. I had not seen the mandatory vaccination orders. I had not seen the camps.

Next week I will write more on what I see happening, and where it is heading. But for now, it is enough to say that my personal Vaccine Moment has arrived. Where once I was on the fence, now I am firmly off it. Even if I were to be convinced that these vaccines worked safely, I could never get myself a vaccine passport and acquiesce in the technological segregation of society. I could never scan my code without shivering. I cannot participate in this.

We all have a breaking point, and we all should, because this is the means by which our human intuition screams to us that something is wrong. This is mine. I will not go along with what is happening. I will not validate what is emerging. I will resist it. I will take my stand.

What has been interesting about just the last few days, as I have struggled with how to express myself here, is that huge numbers of people have taken to the streets to say the same thing: enough. As the pressure builds, the explosions begin. Following widespread walkouts and strikes in the USA in recent weeks, hundreds of thousands of people across Europe have begun to take to the streets to oppose the closing-in of the technium. Few of these vast demonstrations have been reported in the mainstream media. Another of those facts which, if the world was what it pretends to be, would ring alarm bells, but which we have become inured to in the age of the Spectacle.

But something is happening out there. It's as if the Vaccine Moment is some kind of thoughtform, drifting through the air, settling on millions of us at once like soft rain. Or perhaps it is more that a fog has suddenly cleared. Perhaps more and more people are coming to see that what is happening now is the Rubicon of our age. Nothing will be the same after this, and it is not intended to be. If we don't want the future to look like a QR code flickering across a human face forever, we are going to have to do something about it.

[QUOTE=JustTK;2636091]Perhaps it's because I'm English, or perhaps it's my age, or perhaps it's just blind prejudice, but when I wake to the news that the Austrian government has interned an entire third of its national population as a 'danger to public health', a chill runs down my spine..[/QUOTE]The best post I have seen anywhere in quite a while.

I get that the author is pessimistic, and there is reason to be. What has stunned me is how time and again the government has entered the health arena, lied, had horrific results, and they have continued about their way. Instead of people getting upset with the CDC lying about heterosexual AIDS, a fact, they have insisted that condom usage means safe sex. Even some here are taking pills as prophylaxis against HIV after sex which is fucking insane.

The government crack down on pain pills is another. In 2000, there were 3,000 deaths, and that number went to 10,000 in 2010. Doctors and pain pills were blamed. In 2010, the DEA announces there will be a crackdown, and now there is one-third as much pain medication prescribed as in 2010. Of course, if you use death rates instead of pills prescribed, then the war on pain was a horrific failure and now there is a 100,000 people a year dying. People needing pain medications are buying pills marked as oxycontin but have lethal levels of fentanyl within them, and the notion that we should go back to what the policies were in 2010 is not even being discussed. Better still would be a Portugal policy where all drugs are decriminalized and they have like 10 overdoses per year. I will say the state of Oregon has decriminalized some drugs and now people are able to get their hands on heroin but not oxycontin. Before the shaming of the unvaxxed, there was a shaming of those in chronic pain. Again, it is fucking insane.

I won't forget during the Bush administration where someone came up with the notion of a chemical weapons attack and that if you duct taped your windows, you would not die. I was not sure where this came from (maybe Bush's team was trying to scare people about chemical weapons), but suffice to say, there was a run on duct tape, and you could not find any for weeks. Fucking insane again.

Given the government's history in public safety and hysteria, I have been skeptical that we are not going to see complete compliance. Flatten the curve has been forgotten as has the duct tape scare. Mexico did not catch the hysteria in any of those 3 above episodes, and I was hopeful once more it would be a refuge. But I was in Mexico when it finally shut down in March 2020, and I was so depressed thinking, "Even Mexico now is fucking insane."

The depression was so bad I would go to Walmart every day just to get out. I think the funniest lockdown scare was a buddy of mine got the keys to a gym we go to. It is just he and I and it is like 11 at night, and we see a cop drive by and we run to the back scared we are going to get arrested. Fucking insane.

I realize that you are never going to get 100% resistance, but like all the other times, I thought there would be little to none, but I have been seeing some green roots growing. The leftists in our country, the Democratic douches, will do whatever the government says, but the liberal wing of the Democratic party, has had enough. They are openly speaking up against the restrictions now. The leftists do not get that it was fatigue from the dictatorial deep state, the people in three letter government organizations like CDC and NIH, that got Trump elected. They just think we are stupid and the recent Virginia election was an outlier. It is going to take a beatdown in 2022 and 2024 before Covid is out of the headlines because at this point more now than ever, this is not a health issue but a political one. I do not have high expectations for the Republicans fighting the bureaucratic deep state but I think they will make things a little more reasonable.

I have been looking at spending way more time in Colombia and Mexico and while Mexico has been the more rational of countries for tourists, Colombia did revolt when the government got too crazy. Colombia has changed the Covid entrance requirements 8 times in the last 15 months for foreigners, so I cannot imagine the insanity if you run a business there. Still, a revolt against federal government policies would never happen in the USA; there are too many people living off their government checks.

But I am in a good mood because I now know that there are a ton of people who feel the same way. In this video, a youtuber asks what we can do to change our oppressive government, and no one had a viable solution except one, leave.

The youtuber's solution was to enjoy the decline, and he offered a one line zinger that summarizes how I feel exactly: [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXvcZwbEFuU[/URL].

"People don't want freedom they want free shit." I cannot think of a more apt line that summarizes everything so well.

[QUOTE=JustTK;2636091]The Vaccine Moment by Paul Kingsnorth[/QUOTE]Very well written. Now get ready for the attacks, even though you are not the author.

You posted a truly profound piece of literature. Very excellent read, quite troubling as well.

[QUOTE=Paulie97;2635763]Just polish up your fake vaccination card and hope there's no consequences. All the crying in the world in a hooker forum won't change these policies. Not to mention that a lot of us are tired of listening to it.[/QUOTE]We are extremely tired of seeing you spam this forum with lies and personal attacks.

[QUOTE=ShooBree;2635722]What would be over? People get infected and die with Covid-19 even though they are double vaccinated.[/QUOTE]Yes they do at a rate of less than 1/20th of unvaxxed. The bigger point is that the spread will slow down and stop if we all get vaxxed. I have wasted too much time on this subject. The antivaxxers just plain won't listen to facts, make up facts and completely ignore that hospitals are full of retards who won't get vaxxed. Hope you have a heart attack and don't get treated because the hospital is full of jackwagons who did their research- they will not be convinced- so unless it goes away. Expect more vaccine mandates- if it was up to me -unvaxxed would get put in a gymnasium and given horse dewormer when they got sick- as far as I'm concerned. If you won't take one for the team you shouldn't be part of the team.

[QUOTE=JohnnyWalker55;2635658]Just a bunch of decrepit 60-70 year olds like jjbee, huancho, villainy, paulie spending their last 5-10 years on earth screaming into the ether "PLAGUE RATS! GET THE DAMN JAB!

Lmao I really hope it gets better for you guys, I can't imagine being this angry everyday.[/QUOTE]Do you know what's even sadder? You, for a few obvious reasons.

1. You are obviously lacking in reading comprehension skills. I've certainly never told anyone to get vaccinated. I've stated, more than once that, in my opinion, it's in most people's best interest to get vaccinated, but whether or not they do doesn't matter to me. I don't believe anyone else who you listed has insisted people get vaccinated. What they and I have stated is that Covid is a serious issue. That's not an extremely radical position. Basically every country, every research organization, every healthcare organization, etc, has stated the same thing. Considering the past 20 months, anyone smarter than a hamster recognizes that Covid is quite likely the most significant event within our lifetimes, no matter how you want to measure it.

2. The people who you listed have been writing about something they believe in, right or wrong, each of us has a certain amount of passion for the subject. You're not here to discuss, debate or provide information. You're merely here to spit on people because of their age. What could be more pathetic than that?

3. You're speaking of things which you have no knowledge. I've never met Huacho, but the rest of the guys you feel threatened by, myself included, are generally easy going, laid back guys.

Our last 5-10 years on earth? I suppose if you go by actuarial tables, that might be within range for one or two of us. However, it's a rather silly prediction to make. It's silly because whether we die in 5 years or 45 years doesn't matter at all to you. What's more, assuming you live to be "60-70", you'll be right where you think it's sad that we are, although I'm not quite 60 yet. Where will you be then? Will you be living as well as I am? Will you be doing the things I'm doing? Will you be happy and satisfied? For all you know, you'll be laying in a hospital bed, unable to wipe your own ass.

Although, considering your post, you're not figuratively there already.

[QUOTE=HighOnTravel;2635643]A plague of idiots? More people literally die from driving their cars everyday and cigarettes each year.

If you know how to eat right, supplement and exercise then your body is a lot more powerful / smarter than you think.

Sheep like you are literally cattle for these big companies herding in and profiting off of all of this. Spreading your silly fear mongering everywhere left and right. I personally feel way more at risk of something bad happening just driving my car each day back home in Atlanta traffic than I do with covid.

Pussies like you who don't know how to fend for ourselves are why we have to wear these stupid fucking masks every day. Imagine growing up as a child in this era only knowing to be masked at all times. I value my natural rights and freedom clearly you do not.

And BTW I was in Wuhan when this stupid covid stuff first broke out. China locked their shit up fast after letting it get put to the rest of the world. I was in total lockdown over there then was finally flown out. Not scared of it then and certainly am not scared of it now.[/QUOTE]And that's what happens when you fry your brain cells daily.

Let's start with the obvious:

Neither traffic accidents, nor smoking are communicable diseases. They aren't comparable to Covid. However, let's look at traffic deaths.

Every year about 1.35 million people die from traffic accidents. If we average it out, over the past 2 years, about 2.8 million people have died from Covid each year. I guess you should have just stuck with smoking, which is more deadly. Except that smoking is a choice, while getting an infectious disease isn't.

I'm actually pretty good at fending for myself. For example, I don't stagger and stumble around in foreign cities, unable to speak because I'm so fucked up, a self-inflicted condition which makes it impossible to fend for yourself.

Natural rights? Freedom? What the fuck are you babbling about? You think putting on a mask takes away your freedom? There are hundreds of thousands of requirements which you are subject to every single day, but if you have to put a mask over your face it's the same as being thrown in prison? Whatever you say.

As for your "change drugs every few days so you don't get addicted" silliness, that's just plain stupid. If you can't get through your day without some type of chemical crutch, you're already addicted. All your method does is prevent physical withdrawal symptoms, which might be worse in the long run.

Being addicted to one drug, a physical addiction, is finite. The drug takes its toll until you reach rock bottom. At that point you either die from the addiction, or you get the help you need and recover, giving you the opportunity to go on with life. However, being addicted to the effects of the drugs has no boundaries. Each one takes a toll, but it's not immediately recognized as related to the drugs, as with your stomach issues with alcohol. There's little hope of recovery, because you don't get into the love-hate relationship with the one drug. You just keep jumping from high to high, until you hit the wrong combination, or the cumulative bills all come due at once.

[QUOTE=Norbert61;2636199]Yes they do at a rate of less than 1/20th of unvaxxed. [/QUOTE]Please provide a link to the research to substantiate that claim.

[QUOTE=RamDavidson84;2636170]You posted a truly profound piece of literature. Very excellent read, quite troubling as well.[/QUOTE]I'm beginning to suspect that you've never read a good book. Those were the ramblings of a clueless blogger / conspiracy theorist who was out of court before he got started. Truth was optional. His whole argument centered on Ireland and Sub-Saharan Africa and he misinterprets both. A surge in infections was expected in Ireland as we enter winter. What's telling is that the death totals of the last two months are drastically lower than a similar surge back in January / February. The cases to deaths ratio has greatly diminished which is evidence that the vaccines are working. Improved treatments are also a factor, though not near enough over the last 9 or 10 months to account for the great disparity. In fact their total deaths linear scale has moved only a bit since the summer.

As to Sub-Saharan Africa, that's easy. They have a very young population, median age 16 to 17. We all know the young are less effected by Covid. They also have few if any long term care facilities and limited testing capabilities. None of this applies to South Africa and their stats look very different. Check the data yourself.

[URL]https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/ireland/[/URL]

[QUOTE=FunLuvr;2636219]Please provide a link to the research to substantiate that claim.[/QUOTE]You need to ask the same of the blogger that you and JustTK have your head up between the butt cheeks of, not a link in site.

[QUOTE=FunLuvr;2636154]Very well written. Now get ready for the attacks, even though you are not the author.[/QUOTE]Anyone not given to attacks shouldn't post links to such poorly written, unsourced, uninvestigated blog posts. C'est La Vie.

[QUOTE=JjBee62;2636205]I've never met Huacho, but the rest of the guys you feel threatened by, myself included, are generally easy going, laid back guys.[/QUOTE]I'm not easy going or laid back and anyone who does not want to get vaccinated should be bastinadoed.

[QUOTE=JohnnyWalker55;2635658]Just a bunch of decrepit 60-70 year olds like jjbee, huancho, villainy, paulie spending their last 5-10 years on earth screaming into the ether "PLAGUE RATS! GET THE DAMN JAB!

Lmao I really hope it gets better for you guys, I can't imagine being this angry everyday.[/QUOTE]Pot calling the kettle black as you've had plenty to say on this thread and likely aren't done. As to anger, who has the cap key on? LMAO. But your anit-vaxxer / Convid conspiracy theorist side, though a minority view in the world, has the greater representation on this thread, and are a sure bet to get the last word. No dedication beats dedication to lies.

P.S. As to longevity, based on health and family history I likely have about another 30 years. But yea, being only in your 30's or 40's doesn't do you much good if you are ugly and / or fat as hell, or just stupid. You are good for at least one, if not all three.

[QUOTE=HighOnTravel;2635643]A plague of idiots? More people literally die from driving their cars everyday and cigarettes each year.

If you know how to eat right, supplement and exercise then your body is a lot more powerful / smarter than you think.

Sheep like you are literally cattle for these big companies herding in and profiting off of all of this. Spreading your silly fear mongering everywhere left and right. I personally feel way more at risk of something bad happening just driving my car each day back home in Atlanta traffic than I do with covid.

Pussies like you who don't know how to fend for ourselves are why we have to wear these stupid fucking masks every day. Imagine growing up as a child in this era only knowing to be masked at all times. I value my natural rights and freedom clearly you do not..[/QUOTE]I got busy and neglected one part of this gem of a response.

I have 2 questions about your claim you were in Wuhan.

1. When was this? Was it back in 2019 when a respiratory illness of unknown origin was reported in Wuhan? Was it when the SARS-CoV-2 virus was isolated? Was it when the WHO declared the pandemic? Or was it when travel restrictions began? I'm asking, because that covers about 6 months.

2. So what? Is that how you think knowledge is gained? There are several buildings designed by Frank Lloyd Wright convenient to me. If I go tour them do I magically become an architect? Better yet, I was married to an artist and spent several years dealing with all things art, including some modeling. I can just visit a few galleries and poof, I'm an artist. Heck, I can go cruise the halls of a med school and next week I'll be a doctor.

Regarding your lecture on vitamins, it appears I know more about them than you.

1. There's a limit to how much of each vitamin your body can assimilate. Exceeding those limits is at best useless.

2. Vitamins received from eating properly are more effective than swallowing a few handfuls of pills.

3. Overdosing vitamins and minerals can cause some serious health issues.

[QUOTE=FunLuvr;2636219]Please provide a link to the research to substantiate that claim.[/QUOTE]"A new study from the CDC published Friday finds that people who are vaccinated were far less likely to develop COVID-19 and to be hospitalized or die from the disease.

Compared to people who were not vaccinated, people who were vaccinated were five times less likely to develop COVID-19. They were 10 times less likely to be hospitalized and die from the disease. "

[URL]https://www.healthline.com/health-news/what-is-your-actual-risk-of-getting-covid-19-if-youre-vaccinated[/URL]#Breakthrough-infections-risk.

"Fully vaccinated people with a vaccine breakthrough infection are less likely to develop serious illness than those who are unvaccinated and get COVID-19.

Even when fully vaccinated people develop symptoms, they tend to be less severe symptoms than in unvaccinated people. This means they are much less likely to be hospitalized or die than people who are not vaccinated. "

[URL]https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/effectiveness/why-measure-effectiveness/breakthrough-cases.html[/URL]

"We do not have conclusive proof. But more and more studies and real-world evidence points to fully vaccinated people, who are not immunocompromised, are less likely to transmit the virus if they become infected," said Brian Laird, PharmD, manager of Pharmacy Operations at OSF HealthCare Heart of Mary Medical Center in Urbana, Illinois. "The reason why is that vaccinated people have a lower viral load if they get infected," Brian said.

[URL]https://www.osfhealthcare.org/blog/fully-vaccinated-less-likely-to-pass-covid-19-to-others/[/URL]

This last is why it matters to ME if YOU are vaccinated, and why you're a selfish asshole if you're not.

[QUOTE=FunLuvr;2636219]Please provide a link to the research to substantiate that claim.[/QUOTE]FL, he is just another Democratic douche spouting off their dogma. You can tell just by the term "horse dewormer". There are 68 million horses and 8 billion people, and the use of ivermectin in people (and dogs, cats, reptiles ETC) dwarfs the number of horses, so you can imagine who came up with that name. Clearly, the vaccine manufacturers are worried about it.

You might ask why. Every fucking day the NYT sends me a morning email and there is the constant comparison of red and blue states and counties with an attempt to show blue regions are handling Covid better, and I do not see any difference at all. It is like this Sweden crap. Sweden did good or bad with Covid based on who you compare them to.

Where there is a real discrepancy is in Africa. Look at these numbers in cases per million: 51,000 in South Africa, 57,000 in Libya, and in the most populous country in Africa, Nigeria, 1000 per million. If politics were not dominating Covid, this is the discrepancy that should be studied or maybe not if you are a vaccine manufacturer.

You see this might be one reason as to why: [URL]https://i0.wp.com/noqreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/Ivermectin-Africa.jpg?ssl=1[/URL].

[URL]https://stuartbramhall.wordpress.com/2021/09/07/shocking-conclusions-from-africa-study-expose-why-big-pharmas-puppets-are-suppressing-ivermectin-data/[/URL]

And anybody who writes this about sick people, "the unvaxxed would get put in a gymnasium and given horse dewormer" has got issues.

Most people with Covid do not get put in the hospital (it is now less than 1%) and even then you put these people on oxygen, blood thinners, steroids, and / or Regenron if they qualify and they do well. So why does this guy want unvaxxed sick people to be put in a gym? Because he is a fucking asshole.

[QUOTE=JjBee62;2636205]Do you know what's even sadder? You, for a few obvious reasons.

1. You are obviously lacking in reading comprehension skills. I've certainly never told anyone to get vaccinated. I've stated, more than once that, in my opinion, it's in most people's best interest to get vaccinated, but whether or not they do doesn't matter to me. I don't believe anyone else who you listed has insisted people get vaccinated. What they and I have stated is that Covid is a serious issue. That's not an extremely radical position. Basically every country, every research organization, every healthcare organization, etc, has stated the same thing. Considering the past 20 months, anyone smarter than a hamster recognizes that Covid is quite likely the most significant event within our lifetimes, no matter how you want to measure it.[/QUOTE]This true and it's fully appropriate to counter fallacious arguments that attempt to diminish the value of vaccinations and other mitigation efforts.

Paul Kingsnorth.

From his website in the "film" section:

"In this conversation with Unherd, in March 2021, I talk to Freddie Sayers about mythic versus logoic ways of seeing, avoiding culture wars, Bill Gates, conspiracy theories and escaping the Machine."

"An interview from spring 2021 with the 'Techtonic' programme on WFMU radio in New York, about my novel Alexandria, and the onrush of techno-feudalism in our society. We talked about the failed promise of the internet, the coming surveillance civilisation, Jacques Ellul, techno-colonialism, neo-environmentalism and more."

[URL]https://www.paulkingsnorth.net/sounds[/URL]

He's another tin foil hat global conspiracy theory peddler but with a coffee house vibe. And one that can't be bothered with doing a bit of basic data research on Sub-Sarahan Africa and Ireland before rolling out his preset monologue. Those were launching pads, nothing more. Lolol.

Just wear a mask. Get the jab or suffer the consequences. Societies have a right to protect themselves from selfish people. It's nothing so lofty, devious, conspiratorial, or complicated. Pandemics happen, and if history is an indicator this should be temporary.

[QUOTE=Huacho;2636235]"A new study from the CDC published Friday finds that people who are vaccinated were far less likely to develop COVID-19 and to be hospitalized or die from the disease.
This last is why it matters to ME if YOU are vaccinated, and why you're a selfish asshole if you're not.[/QUOTE]Hi Huacho.

As much as you would like to believe it, the data is not on your side. I have always said, and I remain open to persuasion by facts. But currently the evidence rests on the side of the skeptics.

The new CDC study reported in Healthline lacks any multivariable analysis so can be dismissed immediately as inconclusive – no details of timeline of vaccinations, no details on the immune status of the non-vaxd, no age analysis. Look, we all accept that the vax has some efficacy for the first few months. The issue is that it does not do what it was sold to the public to do – it does not provide long term protection. And is it any better than natural immunity? Please come back when you have that evidence.

"Even when fully vaccinated people develop symptoms, they tend to be less severe symptoms than in unvaccinated people. This means they are much less likely to be hospitalized or die than people who are not vaccinated. ".

So why does this bother you? This is just validation that it is indeed a personal choice. Lie cigarettes and alcohol etc, its up to me if I want to take the health risk. It doesn't impact you, so stop concerning yourself about my health.

"We do not have conclusive proof. But more and more studies and real-world evidence points to fully vaccinated people, who are not immunocompromised, are less likely to transmit the virus if they become infected," said Brian Laird, PharmD, manager of Pharmacy Operations at OSF HealthCare Heart of Mary Medical Center in Urbana, Illinois. "The reason why is that vaccinated people have a lower viral load if they get infected," Brian said.

Ok, great. Some guy who works at a pharmacy tells us he has inconclusive proof, so Huacho now thinks I am a selfish arsehole. That says it all really, Huacho. That shows how robust your argument is. What about some real evidence Huacho?

Huacho – do you eat beef, chicken, fish, pork, cheese, milk? Then I think you are a selfish arsehole. Firstly, bcos you do not care about the lives of those unfortunate creatures (the very definition of selfishness), and secondly bcos by eating those animal products, you put yourself and others at greater risk of infection. That IS scientifically proven. So Huacho, tell me honestly, who is the arsehole now?

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2636245]Most people with Covid do not get put in the hospital (it is now less than 1%) and even then you put these people on oxygen, blood thinners, steroids, and / or Regenron if they qualify and they do well. So why does this guy want unvaxxed sick people to be put in a gym? Because he is a fucking asshole.[/QUOTE]I went to the doctor yesterday for a regular checkup and one of the first things she asked was if I had gotten a covid vaccine. I told her no and she asked the reason why not. She said if you ever decide to get one then you can just go to the lobby and sign up. Then it was on to the next thing.

She did not tell me about how the hospitals were overcrowded because of people like me or how I was going to get sick and die (especially having asthma) or how I was going to infect everyone around me. She did not mention Sweeden or what happened to people in Timbuktu. She did not say how many people the Mayo Clinic study said are in ICU from covid in my age range. This is a lady that makes money off of me and she was totally unconcerned. Hell, she did not even have her mask over her nose.

It was the very opposite of a group of strangers that want to quote sources of how this world is doomed if I do not get a shot and are so concerned with my personal health that they stress themselves out wanting to beat some sense into me, jab me with a needle themselves, or wish for the incarceration or death of myself and others like me. Maybe my doctor got her license out of a cereal box and does not know better than all the "experts" in this room and others like it.

[QUOTE=Huacho;2636235]"A new study from the CDC published Friday finds that people who are vaccinated were far less likely to develop COVID-19 and to be hospitalized or die from the disease.

Compared to people who were not vaccinated, people who were vaccinated were five times less likely to develop COVID-19. They were 10 times less likely to be hospitalized and die from the disease.[/QUOTE]And you believe that? How come if 40% of the world is vaccinated there are double the number of cases in 2021? How come if 60% of the USA is vaccinated we have more cases now than last year? Do you know how easy it is to rig a study like that? Even the guy you quote says, "We do not have conclusive proof." Why not?

[QUOTE=Huacho;2636235]This last is why it matters to ME if YOU are vaccinated, and why you're a selfish asshole if you're not.[/QUOTE]If the vaccine works so damned great and you are vaccinated, why do you care at all? Are you as mad at drunks or fat diabetics? And what variants are we talking about?

Let me give you some data to put your 5 X number in perspective. In Tunisia and South Africa, cases per million are 60,000 and 51,000 per million. Deaths are 2100 and 1500 per million.

Now here are two countries in central Africa, Nigeria and Uganda. Cases per million are 1,000 per million and 2600 per million. Death rates are 14 per million and 68 per million.

Why is there 50 X more cases and 100 X more death in some countries in Africa versus others?

Given you are a Democratic douche, and you have all the answers, it has to be that Nigeria does better with vaccines, social distancing, and mask wearing. What else could it be? You douches know all there is to know about Covid and that is what it has to be.

Here is a novel idea: quit listening to people paid to promote the vaccine. This is from Robert Kennedy's book:

"The CDC is a subsidiary of the pharmaceutical industry. The agency owns more than 20 vaccine patents and purchases and sells $4. 1 billion in vaccines annually. Congressman Dave Weldon has pointed out that the primary metric for success across the CDC is how many vaccines the agency sells and how successfully the agency expands its vaccine program regardless of any negative effects on human health."

40% of Pfizer's revenue has been off of the Covid vaccine and its profit off of it is close to $1 billion. It is amazing how many people are getting rich off a shitty vaccine, a vaccine so bad that it might not even work for the latest variant Omicron.

[QUOTE=Huacho;2636235]"A new study from the CDC ... [/QUOTE]Thanks for the reply. The only research you referenced was a "study" from the CDC. The others were opinions. As for the CDC, that is a political entity of the Federal government. Each president of the US has the option of replacing the CDC director, and Biden exercised that option.
Digging through that CDC study revealed some interesting details. It was compiled using reports from 13 jurisdictions (25% of the US population). Were those cherry-picked reports, or was that all they had? The study doesn't indicate which.
Those reports were from April 4 to July 17.2021. "Case IRRs decreased, suggesting reduced vaccine effectiveness for prevention of SARS-CoV-2 infections." That was in July, so what might be the effectiveness now?
The data is skewed. They classified everyone as vaccinated or unvaccinated. People who were not fully vaccinated were classified as unvaccinated. Why not compare the fully vaccinated to the people with no vaccination, and leave out those who were partially vaccinated?
An interesting footnote in that study indicates that the fully vaccinated who got Covid had a higher percentage of death than those who were unvaccinated and got Covid (1.33% to 1.08%, respectively).

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2636406]She did not mention Sweeden or what happened to people in Timbuktu. She did not say how many people the Mayo Clinic study said are in ICU from covid in my age range. This is a lady that makes money off of me and she was totally unconcerned. Hell, she did not even have her mask over her nose.
Maybe my doctor got her license out of a cereal box and does not know better than all the "experts" in this room and others like it.[/QUOTE]I think she is using a fake license MrE. Did you ask to scan it with your QR code reader so that you could verify it was not a fake license that she bought fom the street downtown?

Does anyone here know the history of how Timbuktu came to be the go-to place to use when referencing some place that never matters?

[QUOTE=JustTK;2636470]Does anyone here know the history of how Timbuktu came to be the go-to place to use when referencing some place that never matters?[/QUOTE]Google, the medical source, failed me, so I used BBC [URL]https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-17583772[/URL].

Sorry for thinking you were the author of that well-written piece. Following your post, I looked him up, listen and learned [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_uAwsVn10Y&ab_channel=UnHerd[/URL].

It is good to see the odd Briton can still think for himself and can use "the King's". Badgers here and elsewhere yelping about "the science" remind me of what the late and great Nazi fighter Joachim Piper (played by Robert Shaw in The Battle of the Bulge when he fought the American surrender monkeys) said of the men who fought under him. They only knew rudimentary of Nazi race theory, as most of them had little formal education. But could handle weapons and hated the American scum whose planes were incinerating their families.

It reminds me because the pro Nazi lockdown / apartheid lot are similarly uneducated bozos who don'; t even wash their hands after using the toilet. The difference is the bozos are gutless.

[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2636487] I used BBC [URL]https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-17583772[/URL].

Sorry for thinking you were the author of that well-written piece. Following your post, I looked him up, listen and learned [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_uAwsVn10Y&ab_channel=UnHerd[/URL].
[/QUOTE]Haha, that's excellent! Thanks for that Pedro. Although I was hoping it might have a more dramatic history. Not blaming you, obviously. Hehe.

Unherd is one of my fave news channels. And Freddie Sayers is a great host. Intelligent and not scared to queston authority. He did a superb investigation a couple of weeks ago when he went to Austria to research what it was like on the streets of Vienna during the new unvaxd lockdown.

"UnHerd aims to do two things: to push back against the herd mentality with new and bold thinking, and to provide a platform for otherwise unheard ideas, people and places".

I recommend it to anyone that seeks to hear alternative yet intelligent opinion.

[QUOTE=Paulie97;2636221]I'm beginning to suspect that you've never read a good book. Those were the ramblings of a clueless blogger / conspiracy theorist who was out of court before he got started. Truth was optional. His whole argument centered on Ireland and Sub-Saharan Africa and he misinterprets both. A surge in infections was expected in Ireland as we enter winter. What's telling is that the death totals of the last two months are drastically lower than a similar surge back in January / February. The cases to deaths ratio has greatly diminished which is evidence that the vaccines are working. Improved treatments are also a factor, though not near enough over the last 9 or 10 months to account for the great disparity. In fact their total deaths linear scale has moved only a bit since the summer.

As to Sub-Saharan Africa, that's easy. They have a very young population, median age 16 to 17. We all know the young are less effected by Covid. They also have few if any long term care facilities and limited testing capabilities. None of this applies to South Africa and their stats look very different. Check the data yourself.

[URL]https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/ireland/[/URL][/QUOTE]I found it to be a very interesting read. I also don't respect your tone and it takes away from the point your are trying to make. There's no need to insult someone and laugh at them because they found a short reading interesting. Your reactions seem childish and you should show some more maturity if you are going to debate a serious topic. I have never enjoyed debating with someone who was only interested in winning the debate rather than actually trying to gain a deeper understanding of what is being discussed. Just not my style. You seem hurt more people don't agree with you in the moment so you lash out with insults as a desperate attempt to validate your argument. Most adults don't respect that type of emotional instability, especially on a forum where you have the time to calculate your response.

As for the reading, it stated a lot of things I think many have been feeling, but the media doesn't cover and it was refreshing to read. Obviously there is still a pandemic raging which has killed millions and no one is saying that vaccines are useless or there is some global conspiracy like you are trying to insinuate. I thought the author did an excellent job at illuminating the connections between tech companies, pharmaceutical companies, the media, their profits, and their vaccine stance. I do think to a certain degree the importance of "Free Speech" has been diminished and the reaction to the vaccine and pandemic goes much deeper than many realize or understand to an almost tribal level like the author stated. I found it be intellectually stimulating and of course anyone who is remotely educated realizes the author is exaggerating a bit to entertain the reader. Nothing wrong with that, no one is going to join an anti-vax cult after reading it, so just relax bro. It's all good. Should we bully and insult those who enjoy novels like Animal Farm or 1984 as well? The reactions of people like you are exactly why someone like me appreciates an author like Paul Kingsnorth. As I have stated before, I just feel people are educated enough to make decisions regarding their own health, especially with such an unproven vaccine. I also don't agree with the lockdowns at this point as the vaccine has not done what it was supposed to. If you want to make me out to be an idiot or an evil anti-vaxer, that's your right, but don't expect me or most people with basic common sense to have any respect for your intelligence and maybe even morality.

God bless America! Haha jk.

[QUOTE=RamDavidson84;2636548]The reactions of people like you are exactly why someone like me appreciates an author like Paul Kingsnorth. As I have stated before, I just feel people are educated enough to make decisions regarding their own health, especially with such an unproven vaccine. I also don't agree with the lockdowns at this point as the vaccine has not done what it was supposed to. If you want to make me out to be an idiot or an evil anti-vaxer, that's your right[/QUOTE]Thank you for your permission.

[QUOTE=RamDavidson84;2636548]I found it to be a very interesting read. but don't expect me or most people with basic common sense to have any respect for your intelligence and maybe even morality.
[/QUOTE]Unfortunately common sense has gone out of the window a long time ago, and the response of P97 is precisely what the essay was talking about! P97 actually did a really good job in demonstrating the issues that he was discussing.

[QUOTE=RamDavidson84;2636548]................. There's no need to insult someone and laugh at them because they found a [B]short[/B]reading interesting.........

As for the reading, it stated a lot of things I think many have been feeling, but the media doesn't cover and it was refreshing to read. [B]Obviously there is still a pandemic raging which has killed millions and no one is saying that vaccines are useless[/B] or [B]there is some global conspiracy like you are trying to insinuate[/B]. ................. The reactions of people like you are exactly why someone like me appreciates an author like Paul Kingsnorth. As I have stated before, [B]I just feel people are educated enough to make decisions regarding their own health, especially with such an unproven vaccine.[/B] [B]I also don't agree with the lockdowns at this point as the vaccine has not done what it was supposed to.[/B] If you want to make me out to be an idiot or an evil anti-vaxer, that's your right, but don't expect me or [B]most people with basic common sense[/B] to have any respect for your intelligence and maybe even morality.

God bless America! Haha jk.[/QUOTE]"Short"? Seriously dude I've read novels that weren't much longer.

"no one is saying that vaccines are useless."

Apparently you only read selectively. Elvis, JustTK, Shoo (t the) Bree (ze) and others are saying exactly that and without even a modicum of serious evidence to support their views.

"or there is some global conspiracy like you are trying to insinuate."

Again the same gabble of conspiracy theorists have been saying exactly that. I'm just not sure right now if their consensus is that it is a political conspiracy, or a Big Pharma conspiracy or Medical Establishment getting paid-off conspiracy.

"I just feel people are educated enough to make decisions regarding their own health."

If the health decision was about whether to get a minor operation (or even a major one) absolutely people should have the right to make that decision for themselves. [B]but[/B] when the decision affects the health of many others should Government not step in and make decisions based on best information to protect the citizenry as a whole?

"especially with such an unproven vaccine".

Either you are listening to the masters of make-believe analysis (here in this section) or you haven't been reading anything by the real scientists. No credible source thinks the vaccine is "unproven". Sure there are questions about the length of effectiveness and about whether it remains highly effective against some of the new variants. But "unproven" . Sorry that isn't a rational position anymore.

"I also don't agree with the lockdowns at this point as the vaccine has not done what it was supposed to".

Are you saying that since the vaccine isn't a miracle cure (yet) Governments taking the [B]very[/B] unpopular stance of initiating lock-downs is unreasonable? Apparently you think you are either smarter or better informed that politicians in many countries who are receiving the best advice the science community has to offer. What exactly did you think the vaccine was supposed to do, by the way? It seems to dramatically reduce the likelihood that you will contract the CoVid virus in the first place and if you do it is extremely unlikely you will need to be hospitalized or will die from it. I don't know about your expectations but for a first pass (I expect the pharmaceuticlal companies are going to extremes to improve the vaccine and make it effect for longer and against viral mutations) but I think the vaccine is pretty damn good.

"most people with basic common sense".

Most people with basic common sense are taking the vaccine. If you aren't among them, common sense may not be your forte.

"God bless America! Haha jk".

Dear God, you wrote this big ol' article and it wasn't until the very end that you said something that almost all of us agree with. Except for a few of the Euro-fanatics.

Regarding cold weather Covid surges, data trumps such and YouTube conspiracy theorists every time. Don't be a sucker. Here's an interesting comparison of Euro countries. First we have Russia, the Ukraine, and Romania where ant-vaccine propaganda has been prevalent. Vaccination rates are low, 43,27, and 39 percent respectively. All three countries have had recent spikes in cases with high body counts to match. Then there's Germany and Ireland, both with high vaccination rates but drastically lower case to death ratios than they experienced in earlier spikes prior to vaccine distribution. I'll even add France for good measure as it demonstrates the same point.

Add to all of this the fact that in the range of 75 to 80 percent of Covid hospital deaths in the US involve the unvaccinated, and that many deaths of the vaccinated recently have been of those who were long beyond their second shot, and that's about all a reasonable person needs to conclude that vaccines are worthwhile and useful. Not to mention that they are recommended by virtually every contagious disease specialist on the planet.

[URL]https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/russia/[/URL]

[URL]https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/ukraine/[/URL]

[URL]https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/romania/[/URL]

[URL]https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/ireland/[/URL]

[URL]https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/france/[/URL]

[URL]https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/germany/[/URL]

P.S. As to your freedoms, "no shirt no shoes no service," so now it's wear as mask as requested. Respect the rights of business owners to do business with whom they please. As to the government, forced quarantines of the TB infected were upheld by the SCOTUS. Nations can protect themselves from inconsiderate people until the pandemic ends. The whiners are way outnumbered, so best bet is the accept the circumstances and ride this out with the rest of us.

Dropping the mike. It's vacation time. .

[QUOTE=Villainy;2636610]"Short"? Seriously dude I've read novels that weren't much longer.

"no one is saying that vaccines are useless."

Apparently you only read selectively. Elvis, JustTK, Shoo (t the) Bree (ze) and others are saying exactly that and without even a modicum of serious evidence to support their views.

"or there is some global conspiracy like you are trying to insinuate."

Again the same gabble of conspiracy theorists have been saying exactly that. I'm just not sure right now if their consensus is that it is a political conspiracy, or a Big Pharma conspiracy or Medical Establishment getting paid-off conspiracy.

"I just feel people are educated enough to make decisions regarding their own health."

If the health decision was about whether to get a minor operation (or even a major one) absolutely people should have the right to make that decision for themselves. [B]but[/B] when the decision affects the health of many others should Government not step in and make decisions based on best information to protect the citizenry as a whole?

"especially with such an unproven vaccine".

Either you are listening to the masters of make-believe analysis (here in this section) or you haven't been reading anything by the real scientists. No credible source thinks the vaccine is "unproven". Sure there are questions about the length of effectiveness and about whether it remains highly effective against some of the new variants. But "unproven." Sorry that isn't a rational position anymore.

"I also don't agree with the lockdowns at this point as the vaccine has not done what it was supposed to".

Are you saying that since the vaccine isn't a miracle cure (yet) Governments taking the [B]very[/B] unpopular stance of initiating lock-downs is unreasonable? Apparently you think you are either smarter or better informed that politicians in many countries who are receiving the best advice the science community has to offer. What exactly did you think the vaccine was supposed to do, by the way? It seems to dramatically reduce the likelihood that you will contract the CoVid virus in the first place and if you do it is extremely unlikely you will need to be hospitalized or will die from it. I don't know about your expectations but for a first pass (I expect the pharmaceuticlal companies are going to extremes to improve the vaccine and make it effect for longer and against viral mutations) but I think the vaccine is pretty damn good.

"most people with basic common sense."

Most people with basic common sense are taking the vaccine. If you aren't among them, common sense may not be your forte.

"God bless America! Haha jk."

Dear God, you wrote this big ol' article and it wasn't until the very end that you said something that almost all of us agree with. Except for a few of the Euro-fanatics.[/QUOTE]You have made completely false assumptions to my entire post and point of view regarding this topic. It makes you look a little delusional how you came to the conclusions that you did from "my posts". I think your reading what other people wrote and attributing their views as mine, which they aren't.

I am very confused as to how the posts of other members had anything to do with my post and my opinion on the essay by Paul Kingsnorth. I have stated before that I am fully vaccinated and I think its the smart thing to do and I just can't understand how from my post you came to the conclusion that I think vaccines are useless or you would associate my post with people who posted vaccines are useless. Again it seems like your a borderline troll with that statement. The covid vaccine is priceless and has saved millions of lives. That being said, I still don't think it should be mandatory outside of Public Employment and you can read my earlier posts if you want more of my opinion on it.

Again, I am extremely confused how you are trying to pick my post apart and make it look like I support some diabolical global covid conspiracy theory when I clearly stated the opposite in my post. I do think there is a strong economic correlation between Pharma companies, tech industry, liberal politics, and their stance regarding the covid vaccine. That doesn't mean I believe there is a group of evil scientists trying to take over the world with a vaccine that is going to brainwash us. Again, relax bro.

Yes. The vaccine is unproven! This is a new technology and we have never approved a vaccine anywhere near this fast. It will be years before we truly know how effective it was and also very importantly if there are any long term side effects from the vaccine. It could be a decade or more before we know all this information, so therefore the vaccine is unproven. Yes it is most likely very safe, and it probably greatly reduces your chance at being infected with serious disease from covid. But it is still unproven and because of that fact, I think people should be able to decide for themselves what to do with their health.

I am absolutely saying that Governments are totally unreasonable at this point to lockdown. No I don't think I am smarter or more informed that anyone else, but I have the right to an opinion and the right to express it, so I will based off my life experiences. The vaccine was suppose to achieve heard immunity and reduce the chance of serious infection by 95%. It did nether. The vaccine did not achieve heard immunity and I believe at this point, even if we vaccinated 100% of the population, due to the false effectiveness of the vaccine and viral mutation, we would still have significant community spread from covid. How did professional virologists not anticipate the virus would mutate and render the vaccines not as effective? The "experts" should have taken that into consideration and educated the public on it at the start of the pandemic for us to make the best possible decision as to what we will do with "our" lives and societies. I believe lockdowns absolutely do more damage to society that the actual virus. In a lockdown; Crime, Suicide, Mental Illness, Lack of Education and Socialization for Children will all plague society far worse than the actual virus, and that is a best case scenario. Worst case scenario is a violent uprising of a large percentage of society who have been economically and socially destroyed from a total lockdown. Are you saying you think we should return to total lockdowns? I strongly disagree with you if that is your stance.

My friend, it seems you are the one who lacks "common sense". Read my earlier posts, I have stated so many times I think people should take the vaccine and I am fully vaccinated. Your reading comprehension skills are horrible because some how you came to the conclusion that I am telling people not to take the vaccine. When did I or the article by Kingsworth ever state such non-sense? Seriously how did you come up with that garbage and associate it with me? Like I said earlier, you seem kinda delusional bro. You are putting so many false words in my mouth to try and argue a point I never agreed with just to start an argument. Again I was arguing that "PRIVATE CITIZENS OUTSIDE PUBLIC SERVICE SHOULD HAVE THE RIGHT TO CHOOSE FOR THEMSELVES IF THEY WANT TO TAKE THE VACCINE". I never said people should not take the vaccine bro.

All that being said, I understand your reasoning for mandatory vaccines. I get it, there is a possibility that by not getting the vaccine you could spread the virus which could potentially infect and kill an innocent person. That is an incredibly noble and valid argument to make. I would never vilify an individual for advocating such a policy.

This is a poor argument to make on my part, but this is some of my reasoning for why I don't think the vaccine should be mandatory. Pandemics are forces of nature, its like trying to stop a hurricane, you can't, all you can do at some point is take the best measures possible and pray for the best. I think if we made all vaccines mandatory, the loss of freedom would not justify the security it is trying to promise. I think many people would still get infected and die because the vaccines are not as effective as they were promised. The loss of personal freedom would erode society to the point that it would do more damage than the few lives spared from mandatory vaccinations. And again it is a horrible thing to say, but these spared lives would be the lives of people who are going to pass away relatively soon anyway. I believe when your run is over, taking one for the team is a noble deed. I have no problem dying for the freedom which has contributed so much to western civilization and societies all around the world. And just look at any genocide from history if you don't think freedom is worth fighting / dying for.

Villainy, sorry if I sound like a jerk, appreciate you didn't resort to name calling and once again God Bless America haha.

[QUOTE=Paulie97;2636630]Regarding cold weather Covid surges, data trumps such and YouTube conspiracy theorists every time. Don't be a sucker. Here's an interesting comparison of Euro countries. First we have Russia, the Ukraine, and Romania where ant-vaccine propaganda has been prevalent. Vaccination rates are low, 43,27, and 39 percent respectively. All three countries have had recent spikes in cases with high body counts to match. Then there's Germany and Ireland, both with high vaccination rates but drastically lower case to death ratios than they experienced in earlier spikes prior to vaccine distribution. I'll even add France for good measure as it demonstrates the same point.

Add to all of this the fact that in the range of 75 to 80 percent of Covid hospital deaths in the US involve the unvaccinated, and that many deaths of the vaccinated recently have been of those who were long beyond their second shot, and that's about all a reasonable person needs to conclude that vaccines are worthwhile and useful. Not to mention that they are recommended by virtually every contagious disease specialist on the planet.[/QUOTE]I would be much more interested in seeing the actual anti-vaccination propaganda statistics / campaigns in Russia, Romania and Ukraine.

[QUOTE=ScatManDoo;2636581]Thank you for your permission.[/QUOTE]I am being trolled by a dude who likes to sexually gratify himself with human feces so much that he actually created an online alias about it. Right now I am questioning all my life choices as to how I ended up in a forum being criticized by this fucking dude. A guy who wants to use people's shit to get himself off and lord only knows do what else with people's shit hahahaha. This guy has no fucking shame either, dude straight up makes his forum name Scatman hahahahahaha. That's some funny fucking shit, pun intended LOL. I am taking a picture of this post and sending it out to my friends in a group chat, hahaha thank you for existing Scatman.

[QUOTE=Paulie97;2636630]P.S. As to your freedoms, "no shirt no shoes no service," so now it's wear as mask as requested. Respect the rights of business owners to do business with whom they please. As to the government, forced quarantines of the TB infected were upheld by the SCOTUS. Nations can protect themselves from inconsiderate people until the pandemic ends. The whiners are way outnumbered, so best bet is the accept the circumstances and ride this out with the rest of us.
Dropping the mike. It's vacation time..[/QUOTE]TB is very contagious and kills millions per year. The Covid vaccine does not prevent transmission.

I do not think anyone here has said that the vaccine does not prevent hospitalization and death. What has been said is more vaccination is not going to lead to an end to the pandemic and that forcing people to get the vaccine, when it does not prevent transmission, is barbaric. All you keep saying is the vaccine has no risk and is all benefit. That is complete nonsense. The vaccine has horrible side effects and given that there is a risk and benefit, it should be up to the individual not you Democrats to decide if people want it or not.

I had looked at this from the wrong angle using logic. This is the usual BS I get from the NY Times, "In Republican-leaning communities, the biggest Covid problem remains a widespread refusal to take the pandemic seriously. About 40 percent of Republican adults have not received a vaccine shot, according to the most recent Kaiser Family Foundation poll. As a result, the Covid death rate is far higher in heavily Republican counties than in Democratic ones."

I was like "what is the point?" Fauci said we would get to herd immunity if we were 70% vaccinated and then 85%. We now know from Gibraltar and Ireland that even if you go to 90+% that is not true. There is no herd immunity and therefore no end to the pandemic. We can run around scared or accept that we have to live with it.

But that is not what the Democrats have been saying the whole time. Guys like Paulie, Villany, PVMonger and all the Democrats have been saying nonstop that if we just listened to the "scientists" everything would be fine. Well, the vaccines being 95% effective was pure bull, and herd immunity is too. The "scientists" record is abysmal, and the question now is are they serving us or themselves.

The Democrats ran on the pandemic. Biden said that no president should be in power with the number of people who died with Covid under Trump. At the time, that number was 220,000. By Biden's own definition, he is a failure.

So the point of this is not a debate about the vaccine. That is a red herring. It is the Democrats complete failure on the pandemic. Instead of owning that they were wrong, they are pointing their fingers at Republicans and saying "Everything would be fine if not for you guys. " I was wrong to mentally challenge them. I should have been laughing and said "Really? That is the best you got? The worldwide pandemic continuing on is the fault of Republicans?

We should not take these guys seriously at all. They know they are wrong and just hoping to distract enough people from the truth. With the pandemic, the Democratic leadership has done nothing to prove they have been better when Trump was president. Absolutely nothing.

[QUOTE=Villainy;2636610]"Short"? Seriously dude I've read novels that weren't much longer.

"no one is saying that vaccines are useless."

Apparently you only read selectively. Elvis, JustTK, Shoo (t the) Bree (ze) and others are saying exactly that and without even a modicum of serious evidence to support their views.

"or there is some global conspiracy like you are trying to insinuate."

Again the same gabble of conspiracy theorists have been saying exactly that. I'm just not sure right now if their consensus is that it is a political conspiracy, or a Big Pharma conspiracy or Medical Establishment getting paid-off conspiracy.

"I just feel people are educated enough to make decisions regarding their own health."

If the health decision was about whether to get a minor operation (or even a major one) absolutely people should have the right to make that decision for themselves. [B]but[/B] when the decision affects the health of many others should Government not step in and make decisions based on best information to protect the citizenry as a whole?..[/QUOTE]Amen brother. Amen. The anti-vaxxers are too brain-dead to understand.

They are also the first people who would beat a shirtless / shoeless person to death for disrespecting a "No shirt. No shoes. No service. " sign but somehow don't see the parallel to disrespecting a "Masks required for entry" sign.

[QUOTE=JustTK;2636401]Huacho do you eat beef, chicken, fish, pork, cheese, milk? Then I think you are a selfish arsehole. Firstly, bcos you do not care about the lives of those unfortunate creatures (the very definition of selfishness), and secondly bcos by eating those animal products, you put yourself and others at greater risk of infection. That IS scientifically proven. So Huacho, tell me honestly, who is the arsehole now?[/QUOTE]First of all, I have been vegan for over twenty years. It doesn't protect you from viruses. Second of all, you exhibit all symptoms of those proposing failing arguments, most notably introducing arguments about veganism to support your stance on COVID, which, again also being vegan, I can assure you is absolutely unrelated.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2636691]The vaccine has horrible side effects[/QUOTE]Evidence? I make it a point to talk to all vaccinated people about their experiences and as I said previously, hundreds and hundreds of people I've talked to and none report 'horrible side effects.' So again I postulate that many anti-vaxxers are just plain pussies who are scared of needles.

[QUOTE=RamDavidson84;2636664]You have made completely false assumptions to my entire post and point of view regarding this topic. It makes you look a little delusional how you came to the conclusions that you did from "my posts". I think your reading what other people wrote and attributing their views as mine, which they aren't..[/QUOTE]There are several of them here Ram. Criminal, P97, JB. They all do it. They accuse you of beliefs that you do not hold bcos it makes their lives easier in being able to attack the argument and insult you. It is their common trait, and it is incredibly dishonest. In fact, I no longer communicate with them bcos they are not willing to debate in an honest or respect manner.

I too never said the vax lacks all efficacy. I have said all along that it has some short term efficacy. I agree that it helps the recipient to avoid serious illness and death. The stats prove that. But what they do not prove is their long term efficacy, and that they will crush the virus. Therefore, you are correct. The vax is UNPROVEN. It does not do what it has been sold to do. It is a huge global political lie. As Elvis says, even if we were 100% vaxd, the virus would still be alive and well, living among us. So any mandate is a failed initiative bcos it cannot possibly achieve what it is told it will do.

What? The government lying to us? Surely this cannot be? They have never done that before. Have they? . Just every day. All through my life, the USA government has been lead by extreme liars. Nixon, Reagan, Clinton, Bush and Bush, Trump, Obama. Now Biden. The whole fkn lot of them. Time and time again. It's surely part of the job description. Why people cannot accept that they could be lying to us again in order to win our compliance is beyond me. This is exactly why THEY DO LIE. Bcos of sheeple like these that buy their BS.

[QUOTE=PVMonger;2636809]The anti-vaxxers are too brain-dead to understand.
They are also the first people who would beat a shirtless / shoeless person to death for disrespecting a "No shirt. No shoes. No service. " sign but somehow don't see the parallel to disrespecting a "Masks required for entry" sign.[/QUOTE]Another board member that smears people with ridiculous views that no one holds, so that they can attack them? Dear me. Haven't we just spoken of that?

Prove me wrong PVM. Show we one RCT that proves that masks are effective in curbing the spread of virus. Come on PVM, show me the science, please!! Surely, it can't be difficult bcos so many keep telling is that science is on their side! Come on, you can do it. Show us the science!

[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2636487].[/QUOTE]Pedro, your inbox is full. I can not reply to your msg.

I am definitely very afraid of needles. Just the thought makes me feel queasy. I've never had a flu shot but I would not call myself an anti-vaxxer. I had two doses of Pfizer. I assume like most people my arm felt like someone stuck a needle in it for something like a day and a half. It was too late when a nurse pointed out my stupid oversight of getting the second dose in the same arm only a few weeks later. I might have suffered fatigue but I don't know because I was jet lagged both times I was vaccinated. Sometime in the next month I will get a booster and I don't plan to be jet lagged when I get it this time. We'll see what happens this time. Anti-vaxxers have a right to be anti-vaccine in most every country so far. I'm ok with it. The legal classic example used to teach law students the meaning of rights is the rights of anyone's fist are limited by the rights of anyone else's nose, as defined by the crime of assault. A more real life example are nude beaches. You can be a naturists among other naturists without being seen by people who aren't naturists. Soon maybe there will be anti-vax resorts.

[QUOTE=Huacho;2636877]Evidence? I make it a point to talk to all vaccinated people about their experiences and as I said previously, hundreds and hundreds of people I've talked to and none report 'horrible side effects.' So again I postulate that many anti-vaxxers are just plain pussies who are scared of needles.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Huacho;2636877]Evidence? I make it a point to talk to all vaccinated people about their experiences and as I said previously, hundreds and hundreds of people I've talked to and none report 'horrible side effects.' So again I postulate that many anti-vaxxers are just plain pussies who are scared of needles.[/QUOTE]LOL. Oh brother.

1. Drug companies refused to produce the vaccines unless given immunity, and they have said immunity.

2. USA offers no financial assistance (unlike the UK) to those harmed by the vaccine. UK usually has 100 people harmed by vaccines per year. This year it is 25 X as much.

3. Government officials hawking the vaccine have legal immunity from being sued if they are wrong about its benefits and risks.

4. Fauci, the "scientist" you Dems all love, said at first the virus was contained, then we did not need to wear masks, then admitted to lying about the need for masks, then said 70% vaccination would get us to herd immunity, then said 85% would do it and we know now that even 99% would not do it.

5. Orwell used the term double speak as a means to gain government control in his book 1984. What he meant was the government could quickly change a word to have two meanings. Clinton famously said when caught lying, "That depends on what your definition of is is". The CDC just changed what the word vaccine meant and will soon change what "fully vaccinated" means.

6. The FDA just asked a judge to extend the date on when they will release all the safety data on the Covid 19 vaccine. That date was 55 years from now. Now the FDA is asking for 75 years: [URL]https://www.theepochtimes.com/fda-says-it-now-needs-75-years-to-fully-release-pfizer-covid-19-vaccine-data_4145410.html?utm_source=partner&utm_campaign=ZeroHedge[/URL].

7. The vaccine probably will not work in the future. 79% of people infected with Omicron in the USA were fully vaccinated: [URL]https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7050e1.htm?s_cid=mm7050e1_w[/URL].

8. There is a risk of heart damage with the vaccine. In Europe, soccer players who have been vaccinated are dropping like flies. See the link: [URL]https://www.zerohedge.com/medical/have-professional-athletes-become-canary-covid-coalmine[/URL].

9. Young men are getting myocarditis and pericarditis as a result of the vaccine, The American Heart Association said in a study, "We conclude that the mRNA vacs dramatically increase inflammation on the endothelium and T cell infiltration of cardiac muscle and may account for the observations of increased thrombosis, cardiomyopathy, and other vascular events following vaccination". [URL]https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/circ.144.suppl_1.10712[/URL].

10, Debilitating tinnitus has been reported to be as high as 24% in one study. There was a member on the board here who complained of having this after the vaccine, and I have seen 2 people in real life with this problem.

11. Flu like symptoms after getting the vaccine per the CDC are "very common". I have seen people suffer with flu like symptoms for 30 days after the vaccine was given.

12. Big Pharma's influence on the media: According to a 2009 study, with the exception of CBS every major media outlet in the United States shares at least one board member with at least one drug company.

13. In this 2017 article, Drug companies spend about $5 billion a year on advertising with these corporate media outlets. [URL]https://trofire.com/2017/04/11/big-pharma-owns-corporate-media-americans-waking-fighting-back/[/URL].

14. The United States is the only country, besides New Zealand, that legally permits "direct-to-consumer" pharmaceutical advertising. [URL]https://www.thrillist.com/health/nation/why-are-prescription-drug-advertisements-legal-in-america[/URL].

15. USA vaccination cards do not have just two lines for when vaccinations were given. They have four lines. To me, this was an expectation on the part of government and the drug companies that the vaccines were likely to fail after two shots were given.

16. The vaccines were not 95% effective against transmission. They are 0% effective, and the bullying on the basis that the vaccines prevent transmission (such as in your post) continues to this day.

[QUOTE=Huacho;2636871]First of all, I have been vegan for over twenty years. It doesn't protect you from viruses. Second of all, you exhibit all symptoms of those proposing failing arguments, most notably introducing arguments about veganism to support your stance on COVID, which, again also being vegan, I can assure you is absolutely unrelated.[/QUOTE]Ah bully for you Huacho, way to go, man. Then your not half as bad as the person that you sound to be!

"It doesn't protect you from viruses" - a vegetarian diet was shown by research to be 67% more effective against bad COVID outcomes than a meat and mammary pus diet. It is thought that a vegan diet would be even better. So really, it gives similar efficacy as the vax. Except veganism offers lifetime protection, not just 4 months.

[QUOTE=FunLuvr;2636219]Please provide a link to the research to substantiate that claim.[/QUOTE]You don't really need a study for that. Do you need an accountant to tell you how much money is in your wallet? It's literally a matter of counting the total number of deaths and dividing it by the number who were vaccinated.

A simple Google search will provide you with plenty of data from plenty of sources. However, to make it easier for you, here are a couple of links:

[URL]https://medicalpartnership.usg.edu/covid-19-staggering-statistic-98-to-99-of-americans-dying-are-unvaccinated/[/URL]

[URL]https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7043e2.htm[/URL]

[URL]https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/11/09/texas-unvaccinated-deaths-higher-covid/[/URL]

[URL]https://www.vdh.virginia.gov/coronavirus/see-the-numbers/covid-19-in-virginia/covid-19-cases-by-vaccination-status/[/URL]

I know I'm on vacation, but this is such wonderful news I had to take a moment to share it. Wink.

[URL]https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/navy-commander-fired-vaccine-refusal-81685364[/URL]

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2636424]Here is a novel idea: quit listening to people paid to promote the vaccine. This is from Robert Kennedy's book:

"The CDC is a subsidiary of the pharmaceutical industry. The agency owns more than 20 vaccine patents and purchases and sells $4. 1 billion in vaccines annually. Congressman Dave Weldon has pointed out that the primary metric for success across the CDC is how many vaccines the agency sells and how successfully the agency expands its vaccine program regardless of any negative effects on human health."

40% of Pfizer's revenue has been off of the Covid vaccine and its profit off of it is close to $1 billion. It is amazing how many people are getting rich off a shitty vaccine, a vaccine so bad that it might not even work for the latest variant Omicron.[/QUOTE]Covid-19 has killed over 5.3 million people worldwide.

How dare the pharmaceutical industry use it as an excuse to grow profits?

J&J has pledged to do their distribution as needed world-wide initially as a non-profit activity. But expecting to cash in later as boosters and maintenance for vaccines are typical and expected.

[URL]https://www.google.se/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8327641/amp/Coronavirus-modelling-Professor-Neil-Ferguson-branded-mess-experts.html[/URL]

When will Joe Biden resign given how many USAns have died of Covid-19 because of him? He has blood on his hands to quote Biden himself.

[QUOTE=JustTK;2637004]Ah bully for you Huacho, way to go, man. Then your not half as bad as the person that you sound to be!

"It doesn't protect you from viruses" - a vegetarian diet was shown by research to be 67% more effective against bad COVID outcomes than a meat and mammary pus diet. It is thought that a vegan diet would be even better. So really, it gives similar efficacy as the vax. Except veganism offers lifetime protection, not just 4 months.[/QUOTE]Since you are certain of your claims, please post a link to any double-blind, placebo controlled studies that back up your claim.

Haha, anybody else kinda freaked out by just the name Omicron? It is kinda ominous as far as naming a virus. You think who ever picked this name chose it to scare people into getting the booster shots?

I hope no one takes this post too serious, anybody know who actually is in charge of naming the variants?

Media is saying boosters are 75% effective as stopping symptoms. I'll probably get it, Covid had me all fucked up for a week in August of 2020, I really don't feel like dealing with that again.

[QUOTE=RamDavidson84;2636664][B]You have made completely false assumptions to my entire post and point of view regarding this topic. It makes you look a little delusional how you came to the conclusions that you did from "my posts". I think your reading what other people wrote and attributing their views as mine, which they aren't.[/B][/QUOTE]You think that I made false assumptions? Afterall I did quote you [B]exactly[/B] throughout. So I would respectfully suggest that either you didn't mean what you said or perhaps you just didn't express what you really thought.

Either way, you may want to review your screed before you hit the 'post' button.

[QUOTE=RamDavidson84;2636664]I am very confused as to how the posts of other members had anything to do with my post and my opinion on the essay by Paul Kingsnorth.[/QUOTE]You said "[B]no one is saying that vaccines (for CoVid) are useless" [/B] I didn't say that [B]You[/B] said it. But your statement was clearly fallacious. There are several delusional members in this forum saying exactly that.

[QUOTE=RamDavidson84;2636664]Again, I am extremely confused how you are trying to pick my post apart and make it look like I support some diabolical global covid conspiracy theory when I clearly stated the opposite in my post.[/QUOTE]Gee again for your benefit. I did [B] not [/B] say that you said this. But you did say that no one was saying this. And in fact the same gaggle of idiots have been expressing this repeatedly. For the records you were wrong that no one was saying this but you do not belong in this group.

[QUOTE=RamDavidson84;2636664]Yes. The vaccine is unproven! This is a new technology and we have never approved a vaccine anywhere near this fast. It will be years before we truly know how effective it was and also very importantly if there are any long term side effects from the vaccine. It could be a decade or more before we know all this information, so therefore the vaccine is unproven. Yes it is most likely very safe, and it probably greatly reduces your chance at being infected with serious disease from covid. But it is still unproven and because of that fact, I think people should be able to decide for themselves what to do with their health.[/QUOTE]This time you are wrong. Yes, due to the danger posed by the spread of CoVid, several vaccines were created very quickly and the FDA reviewed them and granted EUA (Emergency Use Authorization) but the FDA continued to study the vaccines and subsequently the FDA granted the Pfizer vaccine 'full approval' (8/21/2021). Here is a piece by John Hopkins to help you understand better the approval process, and what is involved. Moderna has already applied for Full Approval of their vaccine and it is expected to be approved as well.

[URL]https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/full-fda-approval-of-a-covid-19-vaccine-what-you-should-know[/URL]

[QUOTE=RamDavidson84;2636664]I am absolutely saying that Governments are totally unreasonable at this point to lockdown. No I don't think I am smarter or more informed that anyone else, but I have the right to an opinion and the right to express it, so I will based off my life experiences. The vaccine was suppose to achieve heard immunity and reduce the chance of serious infection by 95%. It did nether. The vaccine did not achieve heard immunity and I believe at this point, even if we vaccinated 100% of the population, due to the false effectiveness of the vaccine and viral mutation, we would still have significant community spread from covid. [/QUOTE]Seriously I think you had excessive expectations from the first iteration of the vaccines. You really thought that in order to fight a world-wide pandemic you would wait for a vaccine that was 100% effective forever and would cover every viral mutation that might evolve? And since that isn't what has happened the existing vaccines are "unproven"? If so, why are you such a hypocrit and taking the vaccine and the booster. Didn't you just say you were going to do that?

[QUOTE=RamDavidson84;2636664]My friend.....[/QUOTE]Now you are jumping to conclusions. I am not your friend. I have higher standards.

[QUOTE=RamDavidson84;2636664]......You are putting so many false words in my mouth to try and argue a point I never agreed with just to start an argument.[/QUOTE]You object to my quoting you 'exactly'. And thereby putting "false words in your mouth" well try doing a better job of expressing your opinions. I didn't misquote you or jump to any conclusions. You are just changing what you meant because you realize how silly some of your comments are in retrospect.

[QUOTE=RamDavidson84;2636664]Again I was arguing that "PRIVATE CITIZENS OUTSIDE PUBLIC SERVICE SHOULD HAVE THE RIGHT TO CHOOSE FOR THEMSELVES IF THEY WANT TO TAKE THE VACCINE". I never said people should not take the vaccine bro.[/QUOTE]And I disagree with you but I recognize that many agree with you. I believe governments should take actions to protect their citizenry even if some are uninformed or misinformed about the serious nature of the threat.

This is one point where we can agree to disagree. Or if you really have a hard-on for this point. Let's argue more. I believe strongly in individual rights but I believe that those rights are not absolute and when those individual rights endanger the rights of others there is a balancing that government needs to do.

[QUOTE=RamDavidson84;2636664]All that being said, I understand your reasoning for mandatory vaccines. I get it, there is a possibility that by not getting the vaccine you could spread the virus which could potentially infect and kill an innocent person. That is an incredibly noble and valid argument to make. I would never vilify an individual for advocating such a policy.[/QUOTE]That merits no argument from me. The rest of what you said is just argument that isn't changing my mind and I'm sure I could respond and wouldn't come close to changing yours.

This is a poor argument to make on my part, but this is some of my reasoning for why I don't think the vaccine should be mandatory. Pandemics are forces of nature, its like trying to stop a hurricane, you can't, all you can do at some point is take the best measures possible and pray for the best. I think if we made all vaccines mandatory, the loss of freedom would not justify the security it is trying to promise. I think many people would still get infected and die because the vaccines are not as effective as they were promised. The loss of personal freedom would erode society to the point that it would do more damage than the few lives spared from mandatory vaccinations. And again it is a horrible thing to say, but these spared lives would be the lives of people who are going to pass away relatively soon anyway. I believe when your run is over, taking one for the team is a noble deed. I have no problem dying for the freedom which has contributed so much to western civilization and societies all around the world. And just look at any genocide from history if you don't think freedom is worth fighting / dying for.

[QUOTE=RamDavidson84;2636664].....and once again God Bless America haha.[/QUOTE]Again we agree on that.

[QUOTE=Villainy;2637386]You think that I made false assumptions? Afterall I did quote you [B]exactly[/B] throughout. So I would respectfully suggest that either you didn't mean what you said or perhaps you just didn't express what you really thought.

Either way, you may want to review your screed before you hit the 'post' button.

You said "[B]no one is saying that vaccines (for CoVid) are useless" [/B] I didn't say that [B]You[/B] said it. But your statement was clearly fallacious. There are several delusional members in this forum saying exactly that.

Gee again for your benefit. I did [B] not [/B] say that you said this. But you did say that no one was saying this. And in fact the same gaggle of idiots have been expressing this repeatedly. For the records you were wrong that no one was saying this but you do not belong in this group.

This time you are wrong. Yes, due to the danger posed by the spread of CoVid, several vaccines were created very quickly and the FDA reviewed them and granted EUA (Emergency Use Authorization) but the FDA continued to study the vaccines and subsequently the FDA granted the Pfizer vaccine 'full approval' (8/21/2021). Here is a piece by John Hopkins to help you understand better the approval process, and what is involved. Moderna has already applied for Full Approval of their vaccine and it is expected to be approved as well.

[URL]https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/full-fda-approval-of-a-covid-19-vaccine-what-you-should-know[/URL]

Seriously I think you had excessive expectations from the first iteration of the vaccines. You really thought that in order to fight a world-wide pandemic you would wait for a vaccine that was 100% effective forever and would cover every viral mutation that might evolve? And since that isn't what has happened the existing vaccines are "unproven"? If so, why are you such a hypocrit and taking the vaccine and the booster. Didn't you just say you were going to do that?

Now you are jumping to conclusions. I am not your friend. I have higher standards.

You object to my quoting you 'exactly'. And thereby putting "false words in your mouth" well try doing a better job of expressing your opinions. I didn't misquote you or jump to any conclusions. You are just changing what you meant because you realize how silly some of your comments are in retrospect.

And I disagree with you but I recognize that many agree with you. I believe governments should take actions to protect their citizenry even if some are uninformed or misinformed about the serious nature of the threat.

This is one point where we can agree to disagree. Or if you really have a hard-on for this point. Let's argue more. I believe strongly in individual rights but I believe that those rights are not absolute and when those individual rights endanger the rights of others there is a balancing that government needs to do..[/QUOTE]This is the worst rebuttal I have seen in a long time. If you were any time of man with any bit of character, you would have just apologized and would have been done with it, but you are really going to try and argue this and pick every little thing possible to try and argue. Check my earlier posts, I made a mistake and accused JustTK of views he didn't have and when he pointed it out to me, I did what's right and apologized. Its not that hard, but your probably a soft as cotton snowflake and you can't handle the stupid fact you might have made a mistake in an online anonymous forum. Haha, I can tell your just an asshole in real life too from the type of things you choose to criticize others about. You are really taking the time to tell me we are not "friends", News flash buddy, I am guy on a forum and we have never met! Haha why on Earth would you ever assume I think we are actual friends. Let me help you bro, its called using a "figure of speech", but you are an asshole and you can't just have a friendly debate.

Hahaha you also really tried to bring up the fact that I considered the essay by Kingsnorth a "short" reading, like you really took the time out of your day to let everyone know I should not consider that a short reading. LOL dude that's funny and sad on your part. I am sorry, your trying to have a mature discussion on a serious topic and your trying to point out the reading took longer than 2 minutes to read so I should not refer to it as a short reading. I am sorry, it took me maybe a few minutes to read, to me that's short, but to each their own I guess.

So I did say "no one is trying to say vaccines are useless". I was referring to the essay by Kingsnorth and my own opinion. Again, why are you bringing other people into "my post". I never said anything about anyone else on this forum, so why would you bring "their" views into my "post". I chose my wording perfectly! Nether me or Kingsnorth ever said vaccines are useless, so therefore according to my post no one said vaccines are useless. Why is that so hard to understand?

Look the unproven vaccine thing is tricky, but in my opinion, the vaccines are unproven. They could have long term side effects that don't manifest until years later. Those types of things happen all the time, one example off the top of my head is agent orange from Vietnam or the Dupont Company poisoning Pennsylvanias water supply with waste chemicals which ended up giving people cancer. I am not exactly sure about those details, but you get my point. There is a possibility some people may be allergic to the vaccine. There is still many unknowns, and that is my reasoning for labeling them unproven. That's why outside of Global Pandemics, it takes multiple years to approve these vaccines. Yes I understand the government has told us that the same safety protocols were followed and just sped up the approval process and the vaccines are 100% safe, but anyone who has ever studied history knows that governments have told lies before on a nation scale and this wouldn't be the first time. And I am not trying to scare anyone away from taking the vaccine, but I don't think its a smart idea to just blindly take it and not be cognizant of the possible dangers, no matter how small they may be. But honestly, who gives a fuck if I even say they are unproven or they are proven, it is a stupid fucking thing for you to even try and argue at this point.

You make yourself look very foolish with this statement, "I had excessive expectations". Whoa buddy, just stop writing because you make yourself look bad haha. Every fucking Health Professional on the national fucking media circuit from Fauci to the Surgeon General to the CDC lady told us the vaccines were 95-90% effective and they would achieve heard immunity, so yes I expect a vaccine close to 90% effective and I expect heard immunity or something close to it. Why is that having excessive expectations? It is not, so just admit you are wrong!

Why are you calling me a hyopcrit because I said people should have the right to choose for themselves if they want the vaccine, I am just saying I don't think it should be mandatory outside Public Sector Employment. So because I hold that view, if I get the vaccine I am hypocrite LOL? I am personally healthy and I trust the vaccines, but I think a terminally ill cancer patient with a very weak immune system should be able to choose for themselves if they want to get the vaccine or not? This does not make me a hypocrite and again, you. Are. Wrong! Hahahaha.

And for the record, I realize you are just a troll who goes around and argues stupid shit for no reason just because your life sucks. Thats the only conclusion I can come to for why you are still trying to argue suchhhhhhhhh TRIVIAL little things like what I consider a "short" reading or long reading, or pointing out your too good to be my online "friend" hahahahaha, but for anyone else who wants to in the future have a civilized debate I am going to reply to your be. S. To show people what you are really about.

Now if you want to be a grown up on this forum, you can always apologize for putting false words in my mouth and arguing about meaningless trivial things like a child and I will forgive you and we can move forward.

[QUOTE=RamDavidson84;2636664]This is a poor argument to make on my part, but this is some of my reasoning for why I don't think the vaccine should be mandatory. Pandemics are forces of nature, its like trying to stop a hurricane, you can't, all you can do at some point is take the best measures possible and pray for the best. I think if we made all vaccines mandatory, the loss of freedom would not justify the security it is trying to promise. I think many people would still get infected and die because the vaccines are not as effective as they were promised. The loss of personal freedom would erode society to the point that it would do more damage than the few lives spared from mandatory vaccinations. And again it is a horrible thing to say, but these spared lives would be the lives of people who are going to pass away relatively soon anyway. I believe when your run is over, taking one for the team is a noble deed. I have no problem dying for the freedom which has contributed so much to western civilization and societies all around the world. And just look at any genocide from history if you don't think freedom is worth fighting / dying for.[/QUOTE]This was your comment not mine. I only agree with the first few words. "This is a poor argument to make on my part". Everything else that follows is yours and I find all of it laughably absurd.

[QUOTE=RamDavidson84;2637330]Media is saying boosters are 75% effective as stopping symptoms. I'll probably get it, Covid had me all fucked up for a week in August of 2020, I really don't feel like dealing with that again.[/QUOTE]Ram, one of the issues I have with the vaccine is that everyone just thinks so simplistically about things. The vaccine just "boosts your immune system" and that is supposed to be a good thing, but it is not always: an overactive immune system causes some of the most horrific diseases you will ever see like Lupus.

When you take a vaccine, it is like pulling the fire alarm. It is best to think about fighting off infections in war like terms. When you give a vaccine it is like telling the body, "we are going to war, get ready!" The real goal with the Covid vaccine is that you produce snipers, specialized antibodies, that work best against Covid, but that is not all that is done. When you take the vaccine, you also produce massive amounts of the military machine that are general fighters (tanks, planes ETC). And like at war time, the more defenses you deploy, the worse the friendly fire will be. In war time, studies have shown 20 to 50% of all causalities were due to friendly fire.

One of the things I learned lately is the Covid antibodies produced by the virus are different than those produced by the vaccine, and that difference can be detected. So again, the snipers are not as specialized as you think. So with the first few variants, the antibodies and vaccines worked really well. The vaccine produced antibodies that shot and killed things that were say midnight blue.

Then Delta comes along and it changes the color to say royal blue, and the effectiveness of the vaccine goes way down.

Now you have omicron and quite frankly it looks like the virus has now changed color to teal.

Yes, if you increase the number of snipers (and tanks and planes) that shoot at things that look blue, you are going to be more effective against the virus, even the teal variety, but you are also going to have more friendly fire. That means more and more things shooting and hitting virus but also destroying healthy tissue, and that can produce the immune system to go into even worse overdrive. What Covid and the vaccine both do is cause damage and activate the clotting cascade. "We got bleeding go on, clot, clot, clot!" That is great until the clots go where they are not supposed to (lungs, heart, brain).

Ideally then you may not need more but better guns, tanks, and snipers, and you kind of know who makes good and bad defense items. I knew who was going to have a hard time with the vaccines and who was not based on their histories with allergies and clean living helps with quality immunity.

The biggest issue I have with the "scientists" then is this: This is not a one size fits all solution. People's immune systems are different. When my second vaccine was due, I did not get it 4 weeks after the first one especially with the reactions I was seeing. I waited 6 months, and I am glad that I did. I did not have the horrific flu like symptoms that everyone else I knew did.

In my case, the first vaccine was purely for medical benefit. Most people I talked to reported arm pain the day after the shot, and that is exactly all I had. The first vaccine taught my body how to make anti-midnight blue antibodies. Now my body knows how to make them itself and can make more if it needs to.

The second vaccine was to increase the number of these antibodies. Well, given how everyone's immune system is different, where do you get off saying that you know what level my body needs better than my body? The second dose of the vaccine was 95% political. I got it because I wanted to travel and did not want to be hindered from working.

I have no interest in the third vaccine. If I got it, it would be 99% for political reasons, and I will hold off on getting as long as I can. I am not really worried about it for me given my immune system. The longer I hold off, the less likely I will have flu symptoms that knock me out for days. But for others, a 3rd shot can be devastating.

So here is the calculation. Third vaccination will almost definitively in my case lead to flu like symptoms. If I catch Omicron, there is a chance I go to the hospital but mostly it is so mild, I likely will only have flu like symptoms but I have the added bonus of having my body learning to make anti-teal antibodies.

Chances are we will see a light blue variant next and it will be even more contagious and less deadly, but this is a man made virus and all bets are off. What if the light blue version is more deadly and the people with teal antibodies have a huge benefit over those who were vaccinated and not sick?

What we have seen over and over again is no one knows what will happen six or even 12 months from now, and I am tired of people pretending like they do.

[QUOTE=PVMonger;2637282]Since you are certain of your claims, please post a link to any double-blind, placebo controlled studies that back up your claim.[/QUOTE]No doubt you understand that is a ridiculous request.

[QUOTE=JustTK;2637443]No doubt you understand that is a ridiculous request.[/QUOTE]Here are your words (bolding is mine): "It doesn't protect you from viruses" - a vegetarian diet was shown by [B]research[/B] to be 67% more effective against bad COVID outcomes than a meat and mammary pus diet. It is thought that a vegan diet would be even better. So really, it gives similar efficacy as the vax. Except veganism offers lifetime protection, not just 4 months."

If it was true research, somebody would have run a double-blind, placebo controlled study. If it was BS, they wouldn't have.

So, basically, what you wrote is BS.

[QUOTE=Villainy;2637416]This was your comment not mine. I only agree with the first few words. "This is a poor argument to make on my part". Everything else that follows is yours and I find all of it laughably absurd.[/QUOTE]I am assuming you agree with the Austrian Government then locking up 1/3 of their citizens in their homes because they are not vaccinated? You agree with the quarantine camps in Australia? Hmmmm, can't say I agree with those policies.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2637434]Ram, one of the issues I have with the vaccine is that everyone just thinks so simplistically about things. The vaccine just "boosts your immune system" and that is supposed to be a good thing, but it is not always: an overactive immune system causes some of the most horrific diseases you will ever see like Lupus.

When you take a vaccine, it is like pulling the fire alarm. It is best to think about fighting off infections in war like terms. When you give a vaccine it is like telling the body, "we are going to war, get ready!" The real goal with the Covid vaccine is that you produce snipers, specialized antibodies, that work best against Covid, but that is not all that is done. When you take the vaccine, you also produce massive amounts of the military machine that are general fighters (tanks, planes ETC). And like at war time, the more defenses you deploy, the worse the friendly fire will be. In war time, studies have shown 20 to 50% of all causalities were due to friendly fire.

One of the things I learned lately is the Covid antibodies produced by the virus are different than those produced by the vaccine, and that difference can be detected. So again, the snipers are not as specialized as you think. So with the first few variants, the antibodies and vaccines worked really well. The vaccine produced antibodies that shot and killed things that were say midnight blue.

Then Delta comes along and it changes the color to say royal blue, and the effectiveness of the vaccine goes way down.

Now you have omicron and quite frankly it looks like the virus has now changed color to teal..[/QUOTE]You make some very good points. Just me personally, I had covid really bad, like it freaks me out a bit getting it a second time. I am going to take my chance with the booster and just hope it works and I don't get severe covid.

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2636406]I went to the doctor yesterday for a regular checkup and one of the first things she asked was if I had gotten a covid vaccine. I told her no and she asked the reason why not. She said if you ever decide to get one then you can just go to the lobby and sign up. Then it was on to the next thing.

She did not tell me about how the hospitals were overcrowded because of people like me or how I was going to get sick and die (especially having asthma) or how I was going to infect everyone around me. She did not mention Sweeden or what happened to people in Timbuktu. She did not say how many people the Mayo Clinic study said are in ICU from covid in my age range. This is a lady that makes money off of me and she was totally unconcerned. Hell, she did not even have her mask over her nose.

It was the very opposite of a group of strangers that want to quote sources of how this world is doomed if I do not get a shot and are so concerned with my personal health that they stress themselves out wanting to beat some sense into me, jab me with a needle themselves, or wish for the incarceration or death of myself and others like me. Maybe my doctor got her license out of a cereal box and does not know better than all the "experts" in this room and others like it.[/QUOTE]Was that supposed to be some profound bit of wisdom? It wasn't.

She's a doctor. She doesn't get paid to get into debates with her patients. She has a professional obligation to give you medical advice. She doesn't get paid to convince you to follow that advice. She makes more money if you don't accept her advice.

Has your doctor ever suggested a change in your diet, or for you to get more exercise? Did she then spend 45 minutes going over all the health risks of obesity?

If you smoke, your doctor will probably suggest you quit smoking and offer access to resources to help. If you have high cholesterol or diabetes, your doctor will recommend dietary changes. There's a long list of things which might elicit a suggestion from your doctor, but almost never will any of those things cause a doctor to get into a debate with their patient.

Not only does the doctor not get paid trying to convince you to get vaccinated, it takes valuable time away from other patients. She asked, pointed you towards the resource and moved on. In other words, she did her job.

[QUOTE=RamDavidson84;2637330]Haha, anybody else kinda freaked out by just the name Omicron? It is kinda ominous as far as naming a virus. You think who ever picked this name chose it to scare people into getting the booster shots?

I hope no one takes this post too serious, anybody know who actually is in charge of naming the variants?

Media is saying boosters are 75% effective as stopping symptoms. I'll probably get it, Covid had me all fucked up for a week in August of 2020, I really don't feel like dealing with that again.[/QUOTE]It's a letter in the Greek alphabet. That's how they are naming the variants.

[QUOTE=PVMonger;2637446]Here are your words (bolding is mine): "It doesn't protect you from viruses" - a vegetarian diet was shown by [B]research[/B] to be 67% more effective against bad COVID outcomes than a meat and mammary pus diet. It is thought that a vegan diet would be even better. So really, it gives similar efficacy as the vax. Except veganism offers lifetime protection, not just 4 months."

If it was true research, somebody would have run a double-blind, placebo controlled study. If it was BS, they wouldn't have.

So, basically, what you wrote is BS.[/QUOTE]He does that quite often, and then runs and hides from anyone who points out his BS.

[QUOTE=PVMonger;2637446]If it was true research, somebody would have run a double-blind, placebo controlled study. If it was BS, they wouldn't have.
So, basically, what you wrote is BS.[/QUOTE]Absolute nonsense. Do you even know what a double-blind study is? How many vegans do you know who would participate in such a study? What you are asking for is impossible. I said there is "research". The type of research, you simply made up.

[QUOTE=RamDavidson84;2637409]This is the worst rebuttal I have seen in a long time. If you were any time of man with any bit of character, you would have just apologized and would have been done with it, but you are really going to try and argue this and pick every little thing possible to try and argue. Check my earlier posts, I made a mistake and accused JustTK of views he didn't have and when he pointed it out to me, I did what's right and apologized. Its not that hard, but your probably a soft as cotton snowflake and you can't handle the stupid fact you might have made a mistake in an online anonymous forum. Haha, I can tell your just an asshole in real life too from the type of things you choose to criticize others about. You are really taking the time to tell me we are not "friends", News flash buddy, I am guy on a forum and we have never met! Haha why on Earth would you ever assume I think we are actual friends. Let me help you bro, its called using a "figure of speech", but you are an asshole and you can't just have a friendly debate.

Hahaha you also really tried to bring up the fact that I considered the essay by Kingsnorth a "short" reading, like you really took the time out of your day to let everyone know I should not consider that a short reading. LOL dude that's funny and sad on your part. I am sorry, your trying to have a mature discussion on a serious topic and your trying to point out the reading took longer than 2 minutes to read so I should not refer to it as a short reading. I am sorry, it took me maybe a few minutes to read, to me that's short, but to each their own I guess.

So I did say "no one is trying to say vaccines are useless". I was referring to the essay by Kingsnorth and my own opinion. Again, why are you bringing other people into "my post". I never said anything about anyone else on this forum, so why would you bring "their" views into my "post". I chose my wording perfectly! Nether me or Kingsnorth ever said vaccines are useless, so therefore according to my post no one said vaccines are useless. Why is that so hard to understand?

Look the unproven vaccine thing is tricky, but in my opinion, the vaccines are unproven. They could have long term side effects that don't manifest until years later. Those types of things happen all the time, one example off the top of my head is agent orange from Vietnam or the Dupont Company poisoning Pennsylvanias water supply with waste chemicals which ended up giving people cancer. I am not exactly sure about those details, but you get my point. There is a possibility some people may be allergic to the vaccine. There is still many unknowns, and that is my reasoning for labeling them unproven. That's why outside of Global Pandemics, it takes multiple years to approve these vaccines. Yes I understand the government has told us that the same safety protocols were followed and just sped up the approval process and the vaccines are 100% safe, but anyone who has ever studied history knows that governments have told lies before on a nation scale and this wouldn't be the first time. And I am not trying to scare anyone away from taking the vaccine, but I don't think its a smart idea to just blindly take it and not be cognizant of the possible dangers, no matter how small they may be. But honestly, who gives a fuck if I even say they are unproven or they are proven, it is a stupid fucking thing for you to even try and argue at this point..[/QUOTE]OK I apologize:

I apologize that you don't have the writing skills to say what you mean.

I apologize that you don't understand a simple [B]very simple[/B] principle: If I quote you directly. I can't be putting words in your mouth.

I apologize that you can't accept any criticism without getting defensive and belligerent.

I apologize that you don't know the difference between 'your' and 'you're' (or you are) which goes a long way to describing the quality of your education (if any).

I apologize that you don't understand that the science of the 1970's (Agent Orange) has made tremendous strides through 2021.

I apologize that you don't understand hypocrisy. I apologize for using a 6th graders word with you, clearly that was an oversight.

Lastly. I apologize for being an asshole. But tomorrow morning when we all wake up. I'll still be an asshole and you'll still be stupid.

[QUOTE=JustTK;2637656]Absolute nonsense. Do you even know what a double-blind study is? How many vegans do you know who would participate in such a study? What you are asking for is impossible. I said there is "research". The type of research, you simply made up.[/QUOTE]So, when you used the term "research" you meant anecdotal BS. I get it now.

[QUOTE=Villainy;2637678]OK I apologize:

I apologize that you don't have the writing skills to say what you mean.

I apologize that you don't understand a simple [B]very simple[/B] principle: If I quote you directly. I can't be putting words in your mouth.

I apologize that you can't accept any criticism without getting defensive and belligerent.

I apologize that you don't know the difference between 'your' and 'you're' (or you are) which goes a long way to describing the quality of your education (if any).

I apologize that you don't understand that the science of the 1970's (Agent Orange) has made tremendous strides through 2021.

I apologize that you don't understand hypocrisy. I apologize for using a 6th graders word with you, clearly that was an oversight.

Lastly. I apologize for being an asshole. But tomorrow morning when we all wake up. I'll still be an asshole and you'll still be stupid.[/QUOTE]Haha, nice reply, I was way too defensive and belligerent, my bad.

Ram, I thought you might enjoy watching this. Short video on vax patent waivers.

[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGSsMgqnWQc[/URL]

[QUOTE=JustTK;2637656]Absolute nonsense. Do you even know what a double-blind study is? How many vegans do you know who would participate in such a study? What you are asking for is impossible. I said there is "research". The type of research, you simply made up.[/QUOTE]Do you even know the difference between a single-blind study and a double-blind study is?

Or how many participants are needed or either?

Hahahaha.

[QUOTE=JustTK;2637656]Absolute nonsense. Do you even know what a double-blind study is? How many vegans do you know who would participate in such a study? What you are asking for is impossible. I said there is "research". The type of research, you simply made up.[/QUOTE]Let me translate that.

By "research" he means he read it somewhere, probably in a blog filled with the ramblings of someone whose background in science consists of passing a required class in highschool.

If he was referring to actual research he would have simply posted a link to the peer reviewed study which either supports his claims (unlikely), or which he can misrepresent and claim it supports his claims. Here's a quick example:

Let's assume there are studies which show people who eat a diet which meets or exceeds the recommended daily servings of fruits and vegetables, are less susceptible to common strains of influenza. Now to normal people who have integrity, that's easy to grasp. Eat a balanced diet and you will likely be healthier.

But when it goes through the JustTK filter it changes drastically. There's several paths it can take as the study gets twisted beyond recognition. Almost certainly, his interpretation will be that vegans are less susceptible to Covid.

[QUOTE=RamDavidson84;2637782]Haha, nice reply, I was way too defensive and belligerent, my bad.[/QUOTE]OK, I was a little too aggressive in my retort. Let's just call it peace.

[QUOTE=PVMonger;2637446]Here are your words (bolding is mine): "It doesn't protect you from viruses" - a vegetarian diet was shown by [B]research[/B] to be 67% more effective against bad COVID outcomes than a meat and mammary pus diet. It is thought that a vegan diet would be even better. So really, it gives similar efficacy as the vax. Except veganism offers lifetime protection, not just 4 months."

If it was true research, somebody would have run a double-blind, placebo controlled study. If it was BS, they wouldn't have.

So, basically, what you wrote is BS.[/QUOTE]Actually, his number is low. Researchers have revealed a link between diet and COVID-19 which showed plant-based eaters were 73% less likely to come down with the virus compared to those who include animals in their diet. Meanwhile, pescatarians, whose primary protein source is fish, were at a 59% lower risk.

[URL]https://nypost.com/2021/06/08/vegans-are-less-likely-to-get-severe-covid-study-says/[/URL]

Now who is full of BS?

[QUOTE=ScatManDoo;2637802]Do you even know the difference between a single-blind study and a double-blind study is?[/QUOTE]Yes, but why would I need to? We are discussing a double-blind study, not a single-blind study.

[QUOTE=PVMonger;2637717]So, when you used the term "research" you meant anecdotal BS. I get it now.[/QUOTE]No, not anecdotal at all. You should stop using words that you do not understand. It does not reflect well upon you.

[URL]https://www.sciencefocus.com/news/plant-diet-covid-19/[/URL]

[URL]https://nutrition.bmj.com/content/early/2021/05/18/bmjnph-2021-000272[/URL]

[URL]https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34489306/[/URL]

3 articles on 2 different studies. Not cherrypicking. I have seen no research that shows diet is NOt important.

[QUOTE=JustTK;2637886]Yes, but why would I need to? We are discussing a double-blind study, not a single-blind study.[/QUOTE]Because you earlier said this:

[QUOTE=JustTK;2637656]Absolute nonsense. Do you even know what a double-blind study is? How many vegans do you know who would participate in such a study? What you are asking for is impossible. I said there is "research". The type of research, you simply made up.[/QUOTE]You need to be aware it is estimated the world has over 75 million vegans.

Finding 100 of them to participate in a study hardly seems impossible.

Accept the one whose faith is weak, without quarreling over disputable matters. One person's faith allows them to eat anything, but another, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. The one who eats everything must not treat with contempt the one who does not, and the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted them. St Paul's Epistle to the Romans.

St Paul knew vegans were weaklings but did not labour the point. St Paul also knew Big Macs made big problems. St Paul was ok.

I am actually changing my (very healthy) diet to take account of the fact the lunatics have taken over our asylum. More dried foods: rice, flour, oats, honey, tinned stuff, legumes, honey etc. Word to the wise: ethnic shops are the way to go with a lot of this stuff.

Here are the Waffen SS arresting Santa ffs [URL]https://twitter.com/i/status/1470519740187779090[/URL].

[quote]No, not anecdotal at all. You should stop using words that you do not understand. It does not reflect well upon you.

[URL]https://www.sciencefocus.com/news/plant-diet-covid-19/[/URL]

[URL]https://nutrition.bmj.com/content/early/2021/05/18/bmjnph-2021-000272[/URL]

[URL]https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34489306/[/URL]

3 articles on 2 different studies. Not cherrypicking. I have seen no research that shows diet is NOt important. [quote]Here are excerpts, in order, from the sources you finally provided:

1. "A plant-based diet may lower severity of COVID-19 infection by 73 per cent".

2. "These dietary patterns may be considered for protection against severe COVID-19."

3. "A diet characterized by healthy plant-based foods was associated with lower risk and severity of COVID-19. This association may be particularly evident among individuals living in areas with higher socioeconomic deprivation."

Evidently, may is a word you don't understand.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2637854]Actually, his number is low. Researchers have revealed a link between diet and COVID-19 which showed plant-based eaters were 73% less likely to come down with the virus compared to those who include animals in their diet. Meanwhile, pescatarians, whose primary protein source is fish, were at a 59% lower risk.

[URL]https://nypost.com/2021/06/08/vegans-are-less-likely-to-get-severe-covid-study-says/[/URL]

Now who is full of BS?[/QUOTE]As usual if anyone if full of BS it would be [B]you[/B]. Your quote from the New York Post is just a rehash in part of the articles that JustTK posted. But more importantly, did you even read it?

This was attached to the study results.

Plant-based and / or fish (pescatarian) diets [B]may help lower the odds of developing moderate to severe COVID-19 infection[/B], suggest the findings of a six-country study, published in the online journal BMJ Nutrition Prevention & Health.

They were associated with [B]73% and 59% lower odds, respectively, of severe disease[/B], the findings indicate.

Several studies have suggested that diet might have an important role in symptom severity and illness duration of COVID-19 infection. [B]But, as yet, there's little evidence to confirm or refute this theory.[/B].

To explore this further, the researchers drew on the survey responses of 2884 frontline doctors and nurses with extensive exposure to SARS-CO-v2, the virus responsible for COVID-19 infection, working in France, Germany, Italy, Spain, the UK and the US.

The participants were all part of a global network of healthcare professionals registered with the Survey Healthcare Globus network for healthcare market research. The researchers used this network to identify clinicians at high risk of COVID-19 infection as a result of their jobs.

The online survey, which ran between July and September 2020, was designed to elicit detailed information about respondents' dietary patterns, based on a 47-item food frequency questionnaire, over the previous year, and the severity of any COVID-19 infections they had had, using objective criteria.

The survey also gathered information on personal background, medical history, medication use, and lifestyle.

The various diets were combined into plant-based (higher in vegetables, legumes, and nuts, and lower in poultry and red and processed meats); pescatarian / plant-based (as above, but with added fish / seafood); and low carb-high protein diets.

Some 568 respondents (cases) said they had had symptoms consistent with COVID-19 infection or no symptoms but a positive swab test for the infection; 2316 said they hadn't had any symptoms / tested positive (comparison group).

Among the 568 cases, 138 clinicians said they had had moderate to severe COVID-19 infection; the remaining 430 said they had had very mild to mild COVID-19 infection.

After factoring in several potentially influential variables, including age, ethnicity, medical specialty, and lifestyle (smoking, physical activity), respondents who said they ate plant-based diets' or plant-based / pescatarian diets had, respectively, 73% and 59% lower odds of moderate to severe COVID-19 infection, compared with those who didn't have these dietary patterns.

And compared with those who said they ate a plant-based diet, those who said they ate a low carb-high protein diet had nearly 4 times the odds of moderate to severe COVID-19 infection.

These associations held true when weight (BMI) and co-existing medical conditions were also factored in.

[B]But no association was observed between any type of diet and the risk of contracting COVID-19 infection or length of the subsequent illness.[/B]

This is an observational study, and so can't establish cause, only correlation. It also relied on individual recall rather than on objective assessments, and the definition of certain dietary patterns may vary by country, point out the researchers.

Men outnumbered women in the study, so the findings may not be applicable to women, they add.

But plant-based diets are rich in nutrients, especially phytochemicals (polyphenols, carotenoids), vitamins and minerals, all of which are important for a healthy immune system, say the researchers.

And fish is an important source of vitamin the and omega-3 fatty acids, both of which have anti-inflammatory properties, they add.

"Our results suggest that a healthy diet rich in nutrient dense foods may be considered for protection against severe COVID-19," they conclude.

"The trends in this study are limited by study size (small numbers with a confirmed positive test) and design (self-reporting on diet and symptoms) so caution is needed in the interpretation of the findings," comments Deputy Chair of the NNEdPro Nutrition and COVID-19 Taskforce, Shane McAuliffe.

"However, a high quality diet is important for mounting an adequate immune response, which in turn can influence susceptibility to infection and its severity."

He adds: "This study highlights the need for better designed prospective studies on the association between diet, nutritional status and COVID-19 outcomes."

SO Elvis, this study suggested plant-based eaters had a less severe CoVid response compared to people eating an standard animal based protein diet. It [B] did not[/B] speak to the comparative risk of infection in the first place. It would really be nice if you actually read the source material you quote before shooting your mouth off.

[QUOTE=ScatManDoo;2637895]You need to be aware it is estimated the world has over 75 million vegans.
Finding 100 of them to participate in a study hardly seems impossible.[/QUOTE]Now you are just talking nonsense instead of accepting that your challenge was ridiculous. What good would a study of 100 vegans be (assuming you could find them? We are talking about a virus with a very small death rate. You would need 1. 000's, if not 10.000's or 100.000's to find statistical variances that give enough confidence.

[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2637966]Accept the one whose faith is weak, without quarreling over disputable matters... the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does ... St Paul's Epistle to the Romans..[/QUOTE]If you take your morality from a bunch of prehistoric sheep herders.

But I DO judge people who eat everything. For me, it's no different to judging those people that do not respect the lives of other humans. There is no material difference to me. We are just shaved apes, so why abuse apes, monkeys, or any other sentient being? We do not have that moral right. Not unless you are a prehistoric sheep herder. IMO.

[QUOTE=PVMonger;2638037]Evidently, may is a word you don't understand.[/QUOTE]Its a word that researchers use when they don't want to put their cock on the block.

[QUOTE=Villainy;2637678]OK I apologize:

I apologize that you don't have the writing skills to say what you mean.

I apologize that you don't understand a simple [B]very simple[/B] principle: If I quote you directly. I can't be putting words in your mouth.

I apologize that you can't accept any criticism without getting defensive and belligerent.

I apologize that you don't know the difference between 'your' and 'you're' (or you are) which goes a long way to describing the quality of your education (if any).

I apologize that you don't understand that the science of the 1970's (Agent Orange) has made tremendous strides through 2021.

I apologize that you don't understand hypocrisy. I apologize for using a 6th graders word with you, clearly that was an oversight..[/QUOTE]You're not only an asshole, you're a stupid liar as well.

[QUOTE=Villainy;2638065]SO Elvis, this study suggested plant-based eaters had a less severe CoVid response compared to people eating an standard animal based protein diet. It [B] did not[/B] speak to the comparative risk of infection in the first place. It would really be nice if you actually read the source material you quote before shooting your mouth off.[/QUOTE]LOL. So now you have gone from saying there is no evidence to not enough evidence. JustTK is right again in that doing a double blind study, something you say someone would do, would have to be huge to show benefit and be massively costly.

Furthermore given how Covid is changing like every 6 months, what was true today would not be true tomorrow. Veganism may have helped versus the first strains but be worthless against the next one.

And I do not have a dog in this fight outside of saying you were full of BS like usual.

[QUOTE=JustTK;2638112]Now you are just talking nonsense instead of accepting that your challenge was ridiculous. What good would a study of 100 vegans be (assuming you could find them? We are talking about a virus with a very small death rate. You would need 1. 000's, if not 10.000's or 100.000's to find statistical variances that give enough confidence.[/QUOTE]Ironic, isn't it? You're saying for a study to be acceptable it would need tens or hundreds of thousands of vegan participants, but you have placed your faith in a study of less than 600 positive Covid tests. Even if 5% of the respondents were vegan, that means you're looking at about 25 people.

You should stop posting about things which you don't understand. It reflects badly on you.

[QUOTE=JustTK;2638116]If you take your morality from a bunch of prehistoric sheep herders.

But I DO judge people who eat everything. For me, it's no different to judging those people that do not respect the lives of other humans. There is no material difference to me. We are just shaved apes, so why abuse apes, monkeys, or any other sentient being? We do not have that moral right. Not unless you are a prehistoric sheep herder. IMO.[/QUOTE]You're just a regular fountain of irony today aren't you?

You judge people who eat meat the same as you judge murderers, because they are taking advantage of animals, yet you take advantage of the economically disadvantaged in order to get cheap pussy.

For most of the people here that doesn't matter, because most of us aren't claiming moral superiority. However, if you're going to judge everyone else, expect to be judged.

[QUOTE=Villainy;2637844]OK, I was a little too aggressive in my retort. Let's just call it peace.[/QUOTE]I was never at war to even call a peace, just bull shitting around. I am curious to know if you agree with the Austrian lockdowns and the Australian quarantine camps?

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2638169]LOL. [B]So now you have gone from saying there is no evidence to not enough evidence[/B]. JustTK is right again in that doing a double blind study, [B]something you say someone would do,[/B] would have to be huge to show benefit and be massively costly.

Furthermore given how Covid is changing like every 6 months, what was true today would not be true tomorrow. Veganism may have helped versus the first strains but be worthless against the next one.

And I do not have a dog in this fight outside of saying you were full of BS like usual.[/QUOTE]I didn't make any comments on the results of the voluntary survey. But it certainly isn't anything that anyone would call "scientific".

My comment was that, as usual, you didn't even read the article that you quoted. Perhaps reading isn't a skill you've mastered yet? The article and the commentary make clear that there is nothing evident about the study with respect to whether a person is more or less likely to acquire CoVid. The hypothesis which requires a more scientific study is whether or not a vegan diet ameliorates the deleterious effects for those [B]that do[/B] acquire the virus.

Read first, think second, Blather third.

[QUOTE=JustTK;2638112]Now you are just talking nonsense instead of accepting that your challenge was ridiculous. What good would a study of 100 vegans be (assuming you could find them? We are talking about a virus with a very small death rate. You would need 1. 000's, if not 10.000's or 100.000's to find statistical variances that give enough confidence.[/QUOTE]Your lack of statistics knowledge is laughable.

You think 75 million vegans is not a large enough group from hich to select a group to study from.

Hahahaha.

[QUOTE=JustTK;2638121]Its a word that researchers use when they don't want to put their cock on the block.[/QUOTE]No. It's a word researchers use when the results are not conclusive.

[QUOTE=JjBee62;2638173]You're just a regular fountain of irony today aren't you?

You judge people who eat meat the same as you judge murderers, because they are taking advantage of animals, yet you take advantage of the economically disadvantaged in order to get cheap pussy.

For most of the people here that doesn't matter, because most of us aren't claiming moral superiority. However, if you're going to judge everyone else, expect to be judged.[/QUOTE]I am a vagitarian. I eat pussy. No other meat / animals. Barely any dairy. I don't think your analogy really holds up but I do agree none of us need to judge each other for our life choices or claim moral superiority over each other.

Unless you a re trump supporter-then you have no morals to claim any superiority with LOL.

[QUOTE=ScatManDoo;2638229]Your lack of statistics knowledge is laughable.
You think 75 million vegans is not a large enough group from hich to select a group to study from.
[/QUOTE]Thinking you can get them to murder animals for the sake of an experiment is laughable.

[QUOTE=JustIncognito;2638258]I am a vagitarian. I eat pussy. No other meat / animals. Barely any dairy. I don't think your analogy really holds up but I do agree none of us need to judge each other for our life choices or claim moral superiority over each other..[/QUOTE]Me too. But then that's between consenting beings. Usually, although I must confess to taking an occasional niblble of a sleeping beauty. Hehe.

Not judging. If we are honest no one can say that they do not judge. We do it every hour of every day. Lets be honest about it.

And claiming moral superiority. I think there is a place for that. Lets take an example. There are 2 men, equal in every way, except one just happens to murder innocent beings for his own pleasure. Can't we agree that the other person is morally superior?

[QUOTE=JustTK;2638304]Me too. But then that's between consenting beings. Usually, although I must confess to taking an ocassional niblble of a sleeping beauty. Hehe.

Not judging. If we are honest no one can say that they do not judge. We do it every hour of every day. Lets be honest about it.

And claiming moral superiority. I think there is a place for that. Lets take an example. There are 2 men, equal in every way, except one just happens to murder innocent beings for his own pleasure. Can't we agree that the other person is morally superior?[/QUOTE]No. Not when the "morally superior" person murders innocent beings by proxy.

Unless you're living in a cave, using only tools you made, eating only food you've grown, you have agreed that the murder of innocent beings, as you put it, is perfectly acceptable. Every single aspect of your life depends upon placing human comfort over animal life.

Every time you board a plane or get in a car, you're saying "fuck the animals." Every time you turn on a light or connect to the internet, you're declaring you don't give a shit about animal life. Every time you eat anything you didn't grow yourself, you're indifferent to the animals that died just for you.

That's ignoring the biggest issue, if all of us morally inferior people join you on your pedestal. What happens to the billions of animals which are in the food chain? Most can't survive on their own and you can't expect someone to pay to keep them. So what's the solution? I asked you before and you ran away. I'm certain you'll run away again.

For the record I'm supportive of anyone's dietary choices. When I cook for others I provide options which are acceptable to everyone.

I'm just not accepting of anyone who takes advantage of all the conveniences and luxuries of modern life and then claims superiority because they don't eat any of the flesh of the animals that have to die every day for them.

[QUOTE=JustIncognito;2638258]I am a vagitarian. I eat pussy. No other meat / animals. Barely any dairy. I don't think your analogy really holds up but I do agree none of us need to judge each other for our life choices or claim moral superiority over each other.

Unless you a re trump supporter-then you have no morals to claim any superiority with LOL.[/QUOTE]I agree with all of the above except when someone has claimed moral superiority, which you stTK has done more than once.

The cold, hard truth is that none of the women we enjoy would be offering up what's in their pants if they didn't need what's in our wallets. That's the reality of life. The lion eats the slowest gazelle.

However, when someone claims they're morally superior, because they don't eat meat, but they deliberately seek out the most economically disadvantaged women in third world countries, in order to pay the lowest possible price for pussy, then that claim of moral superiority is bullshit.

[QUOTE=JjBee62;2638173]yet you take advantage of the economically disadvantaged in order to get cheap pussy.[/QUOTE]Seems you would have to ask the "economically disadvantaged" if they are being taken advantage of. They may actually see it as their lucky day or a blessing and not as them being taken advantage of. That is like the western do-gooders that want to close sweat shops. Better the people have no job at all than to get paid what is normal or maybe even above average for that type of job in that particular place because it does not meet the do-gooder's country's standards.

[QUOTE=JjBee62;2638345]The cold, hard truth is that none of the women we enjoy would be offering up what's in their pants if they didn't need what's in our wallets. That's the reality of life.[/quote]And who among us would be offering up our services if we did not need what is in our bosses' or clients' wallets? The reality of life is that people work for money regardless of what type of work it is.

[QUOTE=JjBee62;2638345]but they deliberately seek out the most economically disadvantaged women in third world countries, in order to pay the lowest possible price for pussy[/QUOTE]At which price point does it turn from him taking advantage to him being taken advantage of? At which price point is it even steven where no party is taking advantage of the other? Is an advantage a robbery when all parties agree to it?

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2638507]Seems you would have to ask the "economically disadvantaged" if they are being taken advantage of. They may actually see it as their lucky day or a blessing and not as them being taken advantage of. That is like the western do-gooders that want to close sweat shops.
And who among us would be offering up our services if we did not need what is in our bosses' or clients' wallets? The reality of life is that people work for money regardless of what type of work it is.
At which price point does it turn from him taking advantage to him being taken advantage of? At which price point is it even steven where no party is taking advantage of the other? Is an advantage a robbery when all parties agree to it?[/QUOTE]Agree with all your points apart from one Mr E. Of course there are degrees of exploitation. The exploitation that vegans generally use is the type that causes suffering on one party. It does not include inherent exploitation that takes place between 2 consenting adults that live in a capitalist world, where all forms of transaction could be regarded as some form or degree of exploitation. I certainly do not regard my purchase of sexual services from a consenting adult to be exploitation. I have heard feminists argue the case but I do not agree with them. I do not hold the act of sex in such high esteem that it is almost some sort of holy-enshrined act. It is just a fuck. Big deal. No exploiation.

Taking advantage of cheaper markets? Do Japanese exploit the rest of the world in this manner, Do Swedes, Norwegians, Danes? There are expensive places to live, and cheap places to live. I am from a developing country and Colombiia is no cheaper than my home anyway.

The only thing I disagree with you is on uh-hum, the sweter shops Mr E. Sry, but I am one of those do-gooders. These places exist bcos of a corrupt political system where rules of developing countries profit individually by allowing rish companies in to their countries under exploitative contracts to extract profit from the developing countries, at the expense of the poor people. No rights, no protection, no unions. You could argue that, well, smthg is better than nothing. But having a decent job and not being exploited by the rich and powerful from both countries would be even better! And that IS an option, if they wer ruled by non-corrupt leaders. But that is not possible, bcos the USA would start a war against them if they did that.

[URL]https://www.dosomething.org/us/facts/11-facts-about-sweatshops[/URL]

And finally, about judging. I say again, we all judge one another every hour of every day. I know that JB, PIQ97, and Criminal have all judged me. Equally I judge them. If you do not accept that, then you are being dishonest.

[QUOTE=ScatManDoo;2638229]Your lack of statistics knowledge is laughable.
You think 75 million vegans is not a large enough group from hich to select a group to study from.
[/QUOTE]Its nothing to do with statistics. Its about morality. You would be asking people who are ethically bound not to participate, to participate. And for what beneifit? To conduct some statistical research.

You would be asking vegans to be willing to become animal abusers for sake of statistics. That's not likely. And don't forget, both groups would need to be willing to do it. And then there is the question of time. How long would a vegan need to consume meat and diary for before they lose the benefit of the diet they had been following? And vice versa too?

You might think you could do it with plant-based people. But even they. They are usually plant based for the environment. So again, asking them to sacrifice their morals and destroy the environment for the sake of a study. Or thy do it for health. Ask them to sacrifice their health. Maybe their lives for the sake of a study. Totally ridiculous idea.

It really is a totally stupid hyperthetical study that would never achieve anything.

[QUOTE=JustTK;2638540]Its nothing to do with statistics. Its about morality. You would be asking people who are ethically bound not to participate, to participate. And for what beneifit? To conduct some statistical research.

You would be asking vegans to be willing to become animal abusers for sake of statistics. Thats not likely. And don't forget, both groups would need to be willing to do it. And then there is the question of time. How long would a vegan need to consume meat and diary for before they lose the benefit of the diet they had been following? And vice versa too?

You might think you could do it with plant-based people. But even they. They are usually plant based for the environment. So again, asking them to sacrifice their morals and destroy the environment for the sake of a study. Or thy do it for health. Ask them to sacrifice their health. Maybe their lives for the sake of a study. Totally ridiculous idea.

It really is a totally stupid hyperthetical study that would never achieve anything.[/QUOTE]You are so stupid.

In a double blind study the researchers would not know if each subject was vegan or not.

Plenty of vegan and non-vegan subjects in the world makes you prior quote insanely stupid:

[QUOTE=JustTK;2637656]Absolute nonsense. Do you even know what a double-blind study is? How many vegans do you know who would participate in such a study? What you are asking for is impossible. I said there is "research". The type of research, you simply made up.[/QUOTE]

It would not be necessary for vegans to eat meat to have an effective study. Take a statistically significant sample of vegans, then a similar sample from non-vegans from the same general population. Follow them going forward, testing them regularly. Then see what % of vegans test positive vs. Non-vegans, and is that difference statistically significant, and at what level of confidence. Then follow the vegans who test positive and the non-vegans and see what % from each group gets hospitalized. Then follow the hospitalized groups and see which % of vegans vs. Non-vegans dies. And so forth. It's essentially the same procedure you would do with studying vaxxed vs. Non-vaxxed, or vaxxed with Moderna vs. Vaxxed with Sputnik.

Oh, and if makes me a morally unsound person, sometimes I use honey if I can't find agave syrup. Of course, afterwards I do a two week cleansing with seaweed and linseeds, plus high colonics and of course a thorough regimen of Vitamin See, Vitamin Dee, zinc, ivermectin, and bleach injections.

[QUOTE=JustTK;2638529]I certainly do not regard my purchase of sexual services from a consenting adult to be exploitation. I have heard feminists argue the case but I do not agree with them. I do not hold the act of sex in such high esteem that it is almost some sort of holy-enshrined act. It is just a fuck. Big deal. No exploiation.
[/QUOTE]If I did think that paying for sex were immoral, I wouldn't be doing it.

To think that something is immoral yet go ahead and do it anyway! How disgusting is that ideology? In their world, they are not better than paedophiles.

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2638507]Seems you would have to ask the "economically disadvantaged" if they are being taken advantage of. They may actually see it as their lucky day or a blessing and not as them being taken advantage of. That is like the western do-gooders that want to close sweat shops. Better the people have no job at all than to get paid what is normal or maybe even above average for that type of job in that particular place because it does not meet the do-gooder's country's standards.

And who among us would be offering up our services if we did not need what is in our bosses' or clients' wallets? The reality of life is that people work for money regardless of what type of work it is.

At which price point does it turn from him taking advantage to him being taken advantage of? At which price point is it even steven where no party is taking advantage of the other? Is an advantage a robbery when all parties agree to it?[/QUOTE]Back again for a spanking I see. I suspected you were a masochist.

Let's begin with your inability to grasp context. If you were able to grasp context, you would have noticed I was talking about a very specific situation, JustTK's claim of moral superiority. If it was anyone else, I'd be shocked they didn't grasp the context, because I specifically stated, quite clearly, that the discussion only applies to someone claiming moral superiority. However, your density is such that you're likely to collapse and form a black hole.

If anything you said was strictly limited to providing a means of income then it would make sense, in your case, that would be worth a trophy. But it doesn't work that way. The sweatshops don't provide safe and healthy work environments.

One of the big reasons to offshore jobs is to avoid health and safety regulations. Not only is the labor cost less, but governments are often willing to ignore safety rules if the right palms are greased. The Dhaka collapse which killed 1,100 comes to mind. Or there was Bhopal.

Now if you're talking about sweatshops that provide reasonable pay (for the area) and provide a safe work environment, well you're not talking about sweatshops. At what point is the death of 1,100 (or as many as 16,000) acceptable because, before they died the people were making good money?

Who among us would not immediately be looking for a different job if their employer was deliberately putting their life and health at risk? That's one of those bullshit idiotic things you've become famous for. Most of us have a choice. I could have a new job in less time than it takes to tell my boss I'm quitting. However, and this is where your inability to grasp anything really shines, you just stated that people working in sweatshops don't have any other options. So you're trying to compare people who have no choice, other than extreme poverty, to people who have an overabundance of choices.

It's not a matter of price point, especially since, as I clearly stated, this only applies to anyone who is claiming moral superiority. It's worth noting, you've managed to surpass your normal level of stupidity with this bit:

"At which price point does it turn from him taking advantage to him being taken advantage of?

Truly this is an unprecedented level of idiocy. How could that ever apply? I know this is asking an enormous effort from you, but for just one second in your life, think. The women in question live in Colombia. They are not flying to the UK and asking him to pay them for sex. When he's in Colombia, they aren't searching for him to ask him to pay them for sex. They have no way to coerce him into paying them for sex. If he doesn't pay them for sex he's not going to go hungry. Whether or not he pays them for sex has no effect on his ability to get medical care. He's not at risk of becoming homeless if he doesn't pay them for sex.

Does that make it clear enough for you? There is no price point where the prostitute is taking advantage of the customer, because paying for sex is not a requirement to survive.

Looking at it from the other side, in almost every situation we are taking advantage of the local economic conditions. As I already said, which you completely missed, that's not a big deal. At least it's not a big deal until some clueless fucking twat starts declaring his moral superiority.

If you just have a need to be publicly humiliated, come out and say it. I know people who can help hook you up with someone who will put you in a gimp suit and March you around on the end of a leash. It would be much simpler than coming to me every time you want to look like a clown.

[QUOTE=JustTK;2638540]Its nothing to do with statistics. Its about morality. You would be asking people who are ethically bound not to participate, to participate. And for what beneifit? To conduct some statistical research.

You would be asking vegans to be willing to become animal abusers for sake of statistics. Thats not likely. And don't forget, both groups would need to be willing to do it. And then there is the question of time. How long would a vegan need to consume meat and diary for before they lose the benefit of the diet they had been following? And vice versa too?.[/QUOTE]This could well be the stupidest thing you've posted.

In order to study whether or not a vegan diet provides protection against Covid, or anything else, it doesn't require vegans to stop being vegans. Not only would that be a ridiculous study, but it would have to continue for years, to determine how long it takes on a vegan diet to achieve the (assumed) added protection and how long after leaving the vegan diet before the protection fades.

It's really quite simple, it's how they do studies all the time, on practically everything. Let's take the effects of smoking on cardiac health. Using your method, first we would have to get a bunch of non-smokers, monitor their cardiac health for a few years, then get them all to start smoking and monitor their cardiac health for years. Sounds pretty fucking silly, doesn't it?

Instead you look at a large number of patients with cardiac health issues. You determine what percentage are smokers and use that as the foundation for your study. If it's an even, or nearly even split, then it's probably not an area which needs further study. However, if 75% of the cases involved smokers, then further study is warranted.

That's exactly what the small scale study you posted did. They took a group of people who had been exposed to Covid. They determined the dietary regimen followed by each, found out how many had tested positive for Covid and how many had been severely ill. From there it's a simple math problem to determine what level of protection might exist depending on diet.

However, that's just a preliminary investigational study (really useful for getting funding for further study). It showed the possibility that a vegetarian or pescatarian diet might improve patient outcomes. To determine if there is a definite link, a larger, more in-depth study needs to be done.

That's where a double blind study comes into play.

[QUOTE=Huacho;2638565]It would not be necessary for vegans to eat meat to have an effective study. Take a statistically significant sample of vegans, then a similar sample from non-vegans from the same general population. Follow them going forward, testing them regularly. Then see what % of vegans test positive vs. Non-vegans, and is that difference statistically significant, and at what level of confidence. Then follow the vegans who test positive and the non-vegans and see what % from each group gets hospitalized. Then follow the hospitalized groups and see which % of vegans vs. Non-vegans dies. And so forth. It's essentially the same procedure you would do with studying vaxxed vs. Non-vaxxed, or vaxxed with Moderna vs. Vaxxed with Sputnik.

Oh, and if makes me a morally unsound person, sometimes I use honey if I can't find agave syrup. Of course, afterwards I do a two week cleansing with seaweed and linseeds, plus high colonics and of course a thorough regimen of Vitamin See, Vitamin Dee, zinc, ivermectin, and bleach injections.[/QUOTE]You forgot the UV light therapy.

Hey is it true that anti-vaxxers can no longer get into Colombia? Lmao jajaja.

[QUOTE=JustTK;2638589]If I did think that paying for sex were inmoral, I wouldn't be doing it.

To think that something is immoral yet go ahead and do it anyway! How disgusting is that ideology? In their world, they are not better than paedophiles.[/QUOTE]Very few people do things which they think are immoral. That doesn't make them moral. It's just simple human rationalization at work.

Morality is determined by the wider community, not the individual. To determine if an act is moral all you need to do is ask your family, friends and neighbors.

That doesn't mean something the community considers immoral is right or wrong. Often the action is both moral and immoral, depending on the various communities you belong to.

For example, within the community of mongers there's nothing immoral about paying for sex. However, within the community of your high school reunion, it's probably immoral. Within the community of mongers, overpaying a prostitute is immoral, but within the community of prostitutes it's desirable behavior.

Morality is a tricky subject, because it's often used in a negative way. I'll use you as the example here.

You've claimed you're morally superior because you follow a vegan diet. Yet, rather than focusing upon the benefits of a vegan diet, you use it as an insult for anyone who disagrees with you. And as you've pointed out, being disrespectful and insulting is wrong.

Looking at the entire community of living creatures, there's nothing immoral about eating meat. From the bottom of the food chain to the top, digesting the flesh of other beings is the accepted norm. Even the plants take part in it, taking nutrients from the decay of other living things. Even the vegans take part in it. They just put on blinders and pretend that since the animal exploitation and death is indirect, they're okay with it.

I could have simplified all that by pointing out that if I do something, like eat meat, which I don't believe is immoral, then by your own words, it becomes moral. I could also point out that pedophiles don't consider their acts immoral, neither do rapists or murderers. However, since morality is another of the subjects you don't comprehend, I figured further discussion was necessary.

[QUOTE=JjBee62;2638670]Very few people do things which they think are immoral. That doesn't make them moral. It's just simple human rationalization at work.

Morality is determined by the wider community, not the individual. To determine if an act is moral all you need to do is ask your family, friends and neighbors.

That doesn't mean something the community considers immoral is right or wrong. Often the action is both moral and immoral, depending on the various communities you belong to.

For example, within the community of mongers there's nothing immoral about paying for sex. However, within the community of your high school reunion, it's probably immoral. Within the community of mongers, overpaying a prostitute is immoral, but within the community of prostitutes it's desirable behavior.

Morality is a tricky subject, because it's often used in a negative way. I'll use you as the example here.

You've claimed you're morally superior because you follow a vegan diet. Yet, rather than focusing upon the benefits of a vegan diet, you use it as an insult for anyone who disagrees with you. And as you've pointed out, being disrespectful and insulting is wrong.

Looking at the entire community of living creatures, there's nothing immoral about eating meat. From the bottom of the food chain to the top, digesting the flesh of other beings is the accepted norm. Even the plants take part in it, taking nutrients from the decay of other living things..[/QUOTE]Blablabla, you're wrong.

[URL]https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/morality[/URL]

When will you stop embarrassing yourself? You're way too stupid to try to lecture others.