Seeking Arrangements

[QUOTE=TjBrazil;2587993]Also you say a lot of them aren't rich but I'm seeing a lot of girls posting. They have nursing degrees and engineering degrees. Why are they on the site if the have all this schooling. Especially nursing. They need nurses like crazy.[/QUOTE]They are only searching for an easier way to make a living.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2588274]When it comes to price in the USA sex prison, I say I do not pay for sex but give gifts to women I like. I then give a range of what my gifts were like in the past. That satisfies the women. They get that saying $500 for 2 hours of sex gets everyone banned.

But when negotiating in countries where prostitution is legal / tolerated, Peru, Mexico, Colombia, you can be totally blunt.[/QUOTE]Is that why SA now has the gifts section that you can send the girl gifts that range from hundreds to thousands of dollars. I don't remember the site having a gifts section when I was in Cancun not that long ago.

It must be a way for everyone to avoid the police including the website owner. If telling a girl I will give you 500 for sex gets me banned and possibly arrested if their is a sting. Option 2 is tell her I will send a purse through the site as a gift worth 500 for a first date. I'm assuming the cops can't do anything about that. All this mental gymnastics is really silly. Why can't we just legalize prostitution and call it a day.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2588276]No photo but I did upload one and I will send it if a woman requests it. Probably only a third do.[/QUOTE]I had a picture of my full body so the girls can see my weight and race. I just cover my face. If you have no picture at all it seems like you would get no response.

[QUOTE=TjBrazil;2588495]Is that why SA now has the gifts section that you can send the girl gifts that range from hundreds to thousands of dollars. I don't remember the site having a gifts section when I was in Cancun not that long ago.

It must be a way for everyone to avoid the police including the website owner. If telling a girl I will give you 500 for sex gets me banned and possibly arrested if their is a sting. Option 2 is tell her I will send a purse through the site as a gift worth 500 for a first date. I'm assuming the cops can't do anything about that. All this mental gymnastics is really silly. Why can't we just legalize prostitution and call it a day.[/QUOTE]SA added the gifts section to make more money, I. E. Fleece the paying male subscribers even more.

I wrote this earlier in this thread; the gift giving is an established practice in China and elsewhere in Asia, as I understand. The Chinese meeting places like Tantan and MOMO have a large amount of business from tips and gift giving. In Asia, people hate paying for subscriptions and sites make more of their money from gifts and tips.

SA of course is charging a fucking boatload monthly for subscription; no site in Asia charges $90 a month and few men anywhere in the world would pay such amounts. But SA has become greedy and even more greedy and wants to fuck these men even worse, so now they added the gift giving section. Naturally, they take their generous cut.

[QUOTE=TjBrazil;2588496]I had a picture of my full body so the girls can see my weight and race. I just cover my face. If you have no picture at all it seems like you would get no response.[/QUOTE]Not true. I have no pic and have been with 25+ seeking girls over last couple years. All of mine have been of the newbie or only marginally semi-pro status. I always end up sending a pic before meetup but it's funny about the timeline when the girls ask. The pros don't really ask at all. But the Newbies either ask right away or maybe very very late like they are embarrassed to ask you.

And every girl but a pro has had beaten into them their entire life that sex for money is wrong. You want to help her NOT feel like a pro or a ****. So that's why it's all indirect. My analogy is being a meat eater. Sure in the end I am paying a guy to kill a cow so I can eat it. But I want to be distant from that transaction — I don't want to literally give a guy money and watch him kill it. I have mentally distanced my self from the act of paying money for someone to kill something. Same for the girls. They need to rationalize in their minds that it's not money for sex. Your job is to help them.

But def don't do the gifts thing. They want $$$ in the end. Pretty much 100%.

So after you have had a nice meal and some drinks and the chemistry is there, what's your favorite way to suggest you go fuck? Without saying "let's go fuck". My tried and true had been to look her in the eyes and say "You want to get out of here?" Thought that was pretty much code for let's go fuck.

Then I had the date with Sue, the 22 year old who was totally shocked we went to a hotel room (but I got a BJ if you recall). I later asked her about this and she said "you want to get out of here" is like go to another bar or something. She'the say "you want to link up?" But when I read on the internet this is pretty much not code. It's like saying you want to fuck?

I don't think I am "cool" enough to use "want to link up" and will stick with old faithful but it got me curious because there def is a generation gap here. I find they also put their smiley text backward too! Like this (: Damn kids!

What's your "want to fuck" line at the bar or dinner table?

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2588637]So after you have had a nice meal and some drinks and the chemistry is there, what's your favorite way to suggest you go fuck? Without saying "let's go fuck". My tried and true had been to look her in the eyes and say "You want to get out of here?" Thought that was pretty much code for let's go fuck.

Then I had the date with Sue, the 22 year old who was totally shocked we went to a hotel room (but I got a BJ if you recall). I later asked her about this and she said "you want to get out of here" is like go to another bar or something. She'the say "you want to link up?" But when I read on the internet this is pretty much not code. It's like saying you want to fuck?

I don't think I am "cool" enough to use "want to link up" and will stick with old faithful but it got me curious because there def is a generation gap here. I find they also put their smiley text backward too! Like this (: Damn kids!

What's your "want to fuck" line at the bar or dinner table?[/QUOTE]Tough call. I would use: "Want to go to a place with more privacy?" You want to be a bit ambiguous and test the waters without either side embarrassing themselves. NYC is a hard place since everything is expensive, but what is popular now are rooftop bars. Generally, these are places with a bit of privacy at night. They are getting more common in other cities and may have some loud music which also helps. I know a few places where they have become make out sessions. This is the perfect setup. If you sit close to the girl, you can sense the comfort level and maybe even get in a few kisses. Her reaction when you hold her hand is also a good indication if she is receptive. Body language is the key, not what is said. That is the perfect opportunity to seek some privacy and she will know what it means. It gives her the option to accept, delay or end the date. I have not been reliably able to bring up the issue without appearing too crude, but I am getting better at it.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2588637]So after you have had a nice meal and some drinks and the chemistry is there, what's your favorite way to suggest you go fuck? Without saying "let's go fuck". My tried and true had been to look her in the eyes and say "You want to get out of here?" Thought that was pretty much code for let's go fuck.

Then I had the date with Sue, the 22 year old who was totally shocked we went to a hotel room (but I got a BJ if you recall). I later asked her about this and she said "you want to get out of here" is like go to another bar or something. She'the say "you want to link up?" But when I read on the internet this is pretty much not code. It's like saying you want to fuck?

I don't think I am "cool" enough to use "want to link up" and will stick with old faithful but it got me curious because there def is a generation gap here. I find they also put their smiley text backward too! Like this (: Damn kids!

What's your "want to fuck" line at the bar or dinner table?[/QUOTE]"You want to get out of here?" might be a bit vague for some girls. I'm not a SA pro like you and many here, but my line is something like "Do you want to come back to my place and relax? Yes it's more direct, but it seems more clear of your intent.

Of course, you will have girls who later think they are at your place to literally relax. Haha. That's where your "nanpa" skills come into play. Haha, it's Steve who has the last laugh. I instinctively knew about nanpa, but I didn't know specifically of the nanpa dance. In retrospect, when I hooked up with a reluctant girl I was using nanpa. When I had a girl at my place late at night and nothing happened, I was failing to use the nanpa techniques.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2588637]So after you have had a nice meal and some drinks and the chemistry is there, what's your favorite way to suggest you go fuck? Without saying "let's go fuck". My tried and true had been to look her in the eyes and say "You want to get out of here?" Thought that was pretty much code for let's go fuck.

Then I had the date with Sue, the 22 year old who was totally shocked we went to a hotel room (but I got a BJ if you recall). I later asked her about this and she said "you want to get out of here" is like go to another bar or something. She'the say "you want to link up?" But when I read on the internet this is pretty much not code. It's like saying you want to fuck?

I don't think I am "cool" enough to use "want to link up" and will stick with old faithful but it got me curious because there def is a generation gap here. I find they also put their smiley text backward too! Like this (: Damn kids!

What's your "want to fuck" line at the bar or dinner table?[/QUOTE]I don't know that I have any such lines. As you can probably tell, I am sort of transaction oriented, not too much emotion type person; I ask them what they are ok with, what is off limits, what they don't want or like etc. , and it becomes obvious whether sex is on the table or not, but I want them to say it, not me; then I tell them I am willing to give an allowance of $x but also make it clear I don't give money for casual dates like movies, dinners, etc, so it is clear to them that amount is for sex. Finally, I say if you are happy and continue to see each other, perhaps we can meet at this hotel because my place is off limits. Almost everyone gets the drift.

Only once it failed spectacularly. I had a girl who came to my hotel past 11 PM, took a cab to come to my room, we sat around chatting for half hour, had a quick drink in my room, got on my bed and making out, heavy kissing and petting, I had her tits out and she says "you know we are not having sex right". I am like "why the fuck are you here then and why are your tits in my mouth" - she was "but you never specified sex". I got frustrated, told her to leave because I wanted to sleep, and she was expecting the full amount; I gave her a $100 and said that's it. She was upset and let in a huff, and I slept with blue balls. IIRC that was in Atlanta or somewhere in the south and may be 3 or 4 years ago. She was pretty hot however.

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2588381]
I once did meet a cute blonde who was a physics and engineering student, as she represented. It was during a travel away from my home city. I have a lot of background in those areas and we met for dinners on 3 straight evenings and talked for hours about those fields; she was extremely bright. I never got the courage to ask her to my room or make a move for sex; seemed too disrespectful somehow. I gave her a couple of hundred dollars as gift on the last evening. She refused to take it at first but I insisted and she was happy. To this day, I don't know why she was on the site. I sometimes wonder if I should have made a move on her, she was quite cute and I had more bonding with her in those 3 dinners than with girls I had sex multiple times, but it kinda remains as a regret now. At that time, I didn't want to spoil it; strange because I had not been that tongue tied when it comes to sex since I was a gawky teen.[/QUOTE]Maybe deep down inside, it felt weird to do P4 P with someone you respected intellectually. This happened to me a few times. One gal that I met on the site graduated from an Ivy League school, but majored in something brainy but totally useless. When we talked, I did not understand all the fancy words she used, and she used to quote Shakespeare a lot too, even though she was mostly math inclined. Eventually, it just felt weird to pay to fuck her. I did not feel superior. Eventually, we became whisky drinking buddies. I still keep in touch with her.

So for me, maybe I need the gal to worship me for me to get turned on.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2588637]So after you have had a nice meal and some drinks and the chemistry is there, what's your favorite way to suggest you go fuck? Without saying "let's go fuck". My tried and true had been to look her in the eyes and say "You want to get out of here?" Thought that was pretty much code for let's go fuck.[/QUOTE]Man, I wish I had a go to closer line. I just try to get drunk with the gal, and most of the time that just naturally leads to something. But usually something like "let's go the room and hang out and drink there, it is more comfortable" usually works. I am pretty sure every girl knows what I am getting at when I say this, but at least it sounds plausible and not offensive.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2588635]

And every girl but a pro has had beaten into them their entire life that sex for money is wrong. You want to help her NOT feel like a pro or a ****. So that's why it's all indirect.

They need to rationalize in their minds that it's not money for sex. Your job is to help them.[/QUOTE]I currently have that now with someone. When we meet to fuck, I never give her any money. But every once in a while, she will say that she needs something, like a hair dryer or makeup or a blanket. I ask her how much it costs, and I pay for it. In her mind, I am her boyfriend, and so I should take care of her sometimes.

BTW, I raw dogged her in the ass today. Is that dangerous disease-wise?

On and off seeking for the past two years. I'm wondering if you guys keep notes outside of the site and conversations?

I've found that:

If the girl deletes her profile then I cannot access the conversations.

If the girl I'm dating block my profile so I can't see her online, the direct URL still usually works.

Girls will sometime move there profile out of my city so they don't appear in searches and online statuses while allowing them to keep searching and conversing.

I have a password protected Word doc that keeps a list of their username, first name, profile URL, phone #, whatsapp etc. Pertinent notes.

One expectation I have with the girl that I ask them is that they will need to delete their profile when we start an arrangement. The stimulating ego trip of seeking is hard for girls to break when they think the next message will be from THE maserati driving sugar daddy of the seeking adverts.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2588893]Maybe deep down inside, it felt weird to do P4 P with someone you respected intellectually. This happened to me a few times. One gal that I met on the site graduated from an Ivy League school, but majored in something brainy but totally useless. When we talked, I did not understand all the fancy words she used, and she used to quote Shakespeare a lot too, even though she was mostly math inclined. Eventually, it just felt weird to pay to fuck her. I did not feel superior. Eventually, we became whisky drinking buddies. I still keep in touch with her.

So for me, maybe I need the gal to worship me for me to get turned on.[/QUOTE]Very interesting theory. I think ISG's emphasis on the third world gathers guys with a different viewpoint than most guys who mostly see USA Escorts.

I was intrigued by TJBrazil's skepticism about there being USA Nurse's and engineers on the SA site. If a young lady earns $100,000 a year, and also likes sex, why in the world would she not be interested in earning an additional $10,000 of cash income and gifts a year doing something that is not all that time consuming? It happens all of the time. Some of those potential ladies escort, but that requires a lot more effort, upfront cost, and chance of obvious discovery than SA. It is a dream come true for them. They are going on a date. I also did not understand TJBrazil's belief that the gift section of SA somehow substituted for a "date fee", or that it was there to provide additional legal protection. It is designed as an additional gift. It is not illegal in the USA To purchase the time and companionship of an escort, and it is certainly not illegal to pay someone to go on a date. Direct cash for sex is illegal, and soliciting sex for cash is illegal (which is the basis for almost all USA Prostitution arrests, since directly proving that sex occurs is very difficult).

[QUOTE=Mongerer88;2588903]Very interesting theory. I think ISG's emphasis on the third world gathers guys with a different viewpoint than most guys who mostly see USA Escorts.

If a young lady earns $100,000 a year, and also likes sex, why in the world would she not be interested in earning an additional $10,000 of cash income and gifts a year doing something that is not all that time consuming? It happens all of the time. .[/QUOTE]I am sorry, but you are saying there are a lot of women making $100 K annually and still working as escorts? Where are you finding them?

I can believe that there is an occasional one you meet here or there, but "all the time".

One possible answer to your question: regardless of what we think on ISG, most of this US society looks down on prostitution. If a woman making $100 grand was founding to be hooking for money, she probably would be ostracized by her pals and peers and probably lose her job, in which case she would have lost $100 K job for an extra $10 K side gig.

Particularly so because jobs that pay $100 K tend to be white collar jobs requiring some education or degree (I am not talking about strippers making $100 K here), and this fear of ostracism is much higher in the educated, professional class, and so is the risk of job loss for that category.

This country has all sorts of protection from getting fired on the basis of race, religion, dadada, but not working as prostitutes or escorts.

There are plenty of rich girls on SA in the United States. By "plenty" I only mean maybe around 5% of them are pretty rich, but that is sitll a high fraction in my opinion. Whenever I looked at around one or two hundred profiles in one sitting, I would always come across at least a dozen rich gals. If you increase the age range to include 30's, 40's, and even 50's, there are even more rich girls, like maybe 15% of them.

Some of these rich gals are undergrads who come from wealthy families, but they just like having rich 40 year old SDs that will buy them LV purses and and clothes.

Some of these rich women make decent money in good jobs. I met an investment banker, a lawyer, a PE investor, a resaturant owner, etc. , on SA. Why were they on SA? Most of them liked the rich lifestyle and wanted a NSA relationships with someone that could partake in that lifestyle. I met one gal who was an exec at a firm. She had a big house, drove a fancy car, etc. I asked her why she was on SA, and she said she just wanted to date a rich and successful person, like herself.

Some of these rich gals are a little older, and so they already have the finer things in life, like a nice house, but they just like to fuck. I guess they could use Tinder or something else, and maybe they do, but some of them are also on SA to screen for successful men.

Are these rich gals good at being SBs? I found out that they cannot be generalized. Many of them did not care about the money, and most never asked me for any cash. That was the good part. However, here are some real lines that I got from some of them, "Let's get a suite at the Omni this weekend and do a staycation. " "LE'ts spend the weekend in Napa Valley. " "Let's try to get a dinner reservation at XXX (where XXX would be the hottest restaurant in town and a sure $1,000 dinner bill that included a bottle or two of wine and a tip). " They are used to this lifestyle, many could afford it themselves, but were just looking for a guy that could do it too. But some of them never asked for this stuff and never asked for cash or cared too much about the cash. So, it really varied.

[QUOTE=BrizLad;2588900]

One expectation I have with the girl that I ask them is that they will need to delete their profile when we start an arrangement. The stimulating ego trip of seeking is hard for girls to break when they think the next message will be from THE maserati driving sugar daddy of the seeking adverts.[/QUOTE]I also asked my SBs to delete their profiles after we started an arrangement. They did. However, I later discovered they had multiple profiles, and they also listed their profiles on other sites.

I keep a scratch card kind of thing on a mongering email (which I access only through incognito windows which are password protected.

Every time I get a phone number or telegram or kik ID from the girl, I update the scratch card.

[QUOTE=BrizLad;2588900]On and off seeking for the past two years. I'm wondering if you guys keep notes outside of the site and conversations?

I've found that:

If the girl deletes her profile then I cannot access the conversations.

If the girl I'm dating block my profile so I can't see her online, the direct URL still usually works.

Girls will sometime move there profile out of my city so they don't appear in searches and online statuses while allowing them to keep searching and conversing.

I have a password protected Word doc that keeps a list of their username, first name, profile URL, phone #, whatsapp etc. Pertinent notes.

One expectation I have with the girl that I ask them is that they will need to delete their profile when we start an arrangement. The stimulating ego trip of seeking is hard for girls to break when they think the next message will be from THE maserati driving sugar daddy of the seeking adverts.[/QUOTE]

I signed up on SA a few months ago but there were many who were obviously escorts. While I chatted up a few good ones, due to personal circumstances (plus annoyed by the escorts), I went off of it. I'm back on now. Chatted with over 40 profiles and weeded down to 4 leads. (10% hit rate; will be weeded down further).

Of the 4 leads worth pursuing, one is a 34 year old Pics looks like a 8; Single mom but just looking for some fun. Another is a 33 year old She was apparently in a serious relationship but broke up about a year ago. She just wants to have a 'man' occasionally. She has even shared her personal name, work place, phone number with me. Meeting her for a first M&G next weekend. Looking forward to it (but a bit wary that this one is coming off of a relationship. Let's see how it goes). Both these don't seem to be expecting anything in return other than taking them out for dinners / weekend getaways but will know more when I do M&G.

On the other end of spectrum, there are a couple of 20/22 y. o claiming to be students. Of course, I will screen them and test if they are really students but they keep directing to conversations around "gifts", "pamper me", "take care of me, I will take care of you" kind of things. Seems to be a significant difference in approach between the two demography.

I'm gradually getting back into the scene and I'm going to try both ends of the spectrum. Will circle back with detailed reports when things happen. I'm taking things slow and easy.

All said and done. I owe it to this forum and guidance from y'll veterans. Your tips / suggestions are much appreciated. Happy to contribute back to the forum.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2589197]I also asked my SBs to delete their profiles after we started an arrangement. They did. However, I later discovered they had multiple profiles, and they also listed their profiles on other sites.[/QUOTE]I have to admit it surprises me — guys asking them to delete their profiles. I mean the point of SA is it's NSA. I feel like we shouldn't be demanding exclusivity of each other — it's not like we are getting married. And I'm not being exclusive so it seems a bit harsh to ask her to be.

I will admit I don't love it if I see a girl I am pretty regular with still on the prowl. And I surely don't want to hear about it. But these girls got to pay the rent and I'm not really their boyfriend. Anyhow I guess my philosophy is live and let live on this one.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2588893]Maybe deep down inside, it felt weird to do P4 P with someone you respected intellectually. This happened to me a few times. One gal that I met on the site graduated from an Ivy League school, but majored in something brainy but totally useless. When we talked, I did not understand all the fancy words she used, and she used to quote Shakespeare a lot too, even though she was mostly math inclined. Eventually, it just felt weird to pay to fuck her. I did not feel superior. Eventually, we became whisky drinking buddies. I still keep in touch with her.

So for me, maybe I need the gal to worship me for me to get turned on.[/QUOTE]I feel like I would have enjoyed fucking her very much but was timid with initiating it. She just did not give that vibe, although very friendly. In many SA conversations, I do ask the girl what she wants and what she is seeking but for some reason it drifted off into other topics with this girl online even before I met her and I never asked what she wanted or why she is on seeking. Obviously for money of course, but what she was willing to do is something I could not get any clarity in my mind. There are plenty of girls who claim they like science and even repeat some stuff they might have looked up online or in books but few are good with details; this girl knew equations, circuit analysis, programming. In detail; it was more like dating a smart student in college. Now, I did have some quick fucks in college too and some were with smart girls but perhaps I was out of practice, having been in a relationship for a long time and using FKKs and SA for easy sex on the side.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2589307]I have to admit it surprises me guys asking them to delete their profiles. I mean the point of SA is it's NSA. I feel like we shouldn't be demanding exclusivity of each other it's not like we are getting married. And I'm not being exclusive so it seems a bit harsh to ask her to be.

I will admit I don't love it if I see a girl I am pretty regular with still on the prowl. And I surely don't want to hear about it. But these girls got to pay the rent and I'm not really their boyfriend. Anyhow I guess my philosophy is live and let live on this one.[/QUOTE]I agree. I am often on SA checking profiles of other girls a few hours after I had sex with a girl from SA; it would be hypocritical on my part that I should her to be exclusive when I am not. What's more, the girls know it too. Why should they be faithful when the guy is cheating? They will only assume, correctly of course, that the guy is a hypocrite for asking such a thing.

Also, there is nothing great about being exclusive. I already have a relationship at home and SA is a fun thing on the side. If the girl is exclusive to me, what does it get? She would expect more meetings per week, more money. That is exactly the kind of relationship I do not desire. I want it to be untethered, a couple of pleasant time together with both of us getting what we want and moving on, and if we like it we will keep repeating until one of us gets bored.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2589195]There are plenty of rich girls on SA in the United States. By "plenty" I only mean maybe around 5% of them are pretty rich, but that is sitll a high fraction in my opinion. Whenever I looked at around one or two hundred profiles in one sitting, I would always come across at least a dozen rich gals. If you increase the age range to include 30's, 40's, and even 50's, there are even more rich girls, like maybe 15% of them.

Some of these rich gals are undergrads who come from wealthy families, but they just like having rich 40 year old SDs that will buy them LV purses and and clothes.

Some of these rich women make decent money in good jobs. I met an investment banker, a lawyer, a PE investor, a resaturant owner, etc. , on SA. Why were they on SA? Most of them liked the rich lifestyle and wanted a NSA relationships with someone that could partake in that lifestyle. I met one gal who was an exec at a firm. She had a big house, drove a fancy car, etc. I asked her why she was on SA, and she said she just wanted to date a rich and successful person, like herself.

Some of these rich gals are a little older, and so they already have the finer things in life, like a nice house, but they just like to fuck. I guess they could use Tinder or something else, and maybe they do, but some of them are also on SA to screen for successful men.[/QUOTE]That is interesting, thanks! Perhaps it is the demographic that I am seeking and filtering out when I do my searches (less than 25 years, occasionally up to 30). Also, the ppm type arrangements I favor do not appeal to such rich chicks nor is my price range.

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2589338]Also, there is nothing great about being exclusive. I already have a relationship at home and SA is a fun thing on the side. If the girl is exclusive to me, what does it get? She would expect more meetings per week, more money. That is exactly the kind of relationship I do not desire. I want it to be untethered, a couple of pleasant time together with both of us getting what we want and moving on, and if we like it we will keep repeating until one of us gets bored.[/QUOTE]Yeah, I do not get that either for the most part when guys said a woman I was seeing was off fucking others guys. I was like so what? I care how well she fucks me when we are together. I guess other guys were afraid if she went bare and was fucking around that she would be more at risk for STDs or something.

Maybe other guys did not have what I had at home when I was married. I see guys who are married and miserable all the time like I was. That commitment is like being committed as in to a mental institution in many cases.

Before I found my gal, I was off digging around in the manosphere for some guidance with where I was going with my life. I really loved the book, the Unplugged Alpha by Richard Cooper who is single. He also has a youtube channel I like. But his book was kind of his take on the Rational Male by Rollo Tomassi. Rollo is married, and I think he is a better speaker than writer. I loved that I finally was reading a bunch of guys who knew how I felt, were smart, and could justify my need to see multiple women.

Anyway, Rollo said something that stuck with me. He said that his marriage is not work, and marriages should not be work. That kind of goes against everything that has been preached to us, but I liked that. If your marriage is not great, then why stay in it? Why settle?

I do not think that a lot of guys understand that I did the SB thing not because of some need for commitment or to pay women to like me but because the sex was better. How hard are people really going to try for money? I remember watching a boxer. I think it was Larry Holmes way back when. He is getting like $20 million for the fight, and the other boxer hit him in the balls. THAT is what pissed him off and he then went and kicked the other guy's ass. Sure, there are some women so good sexually they can perform day after day with multiple guys and be good in bed, but there really are not that many of them.

In contrast, I remember a woman whose inner drive did not extend to the bedroom. In bed, she was like, "Ooh, I am not doing that". I liked her so much I actually lectured her. I told her to think me of as a boss and I said if you not perform, you are not going to get the job and the money. I have other women who do not say "Ooh, I do not like doing that" and THEY do all they can to please me, and THAT is why I am paying you.

So here is this hot 22 year old engineer being lectured by a 50+ year old guy who is no one's idea of Brad Pitt, but she knew I was right. Next time, we were together she hopped on my dick and rode it with everything she had. She was not fucking for money but for her worth as a person, and the sex with her the next time was incredible and memorable. She begged me not to give up on her, but I did because even though she was that much better, there were other women who were just not as much work and better in bed.

The only reason I committed to a woman is because I have a great woman who brings it every fucking night, and I do not want to lose that. For me now, any other woman would be a letdown. That is kind of an interesting question for the guys. Have you ever met a woman so fucking good in bed that you would give up everyone else? Do you even think that exists?

Before I met my current gal, I would have said hell no.

To Elvis's question of can you have a girl so good in bed you don't want others I would say YES but it's about the BJ not the sex. To me there is only so creative she can get with her pussy. Yes some girls look just spectacular cowgirling. And yes some look you strong in the eyes in mish and make you feel the most desirable man in the world as you pump one out. But it's the BJ that separates a woman from all else.

If I had a woman who could give a mind bending BJ like no other (Rivetta? Andressa? Noleta? Anna?) and was into doing that at least once a day maybe more then yeah I'the have a keeper on my hands. At least that's what I think now. After a year of mind bending BJs maybe I'the get bored. Hope to find out some day. LOL.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2589395]Yeah, I do not get that either for the most part when guys said a woman I was seeing was off fucking others guys. I was like so what? I care how well she fucks me when we are together. I guess other guys were afraid if she went bare and was fucking around that she would be more at risk for STDs or something.

Maybe other guys did not have what I had at home when I was married. I see guys who are married and miserable all the time like I was. That commitment is like being committed as in to a mental institution in many cases.

Before I found my gal, I was off digging around in the manosphere for some guidance with where I was going with my life. I really loved the book, the Unplugged Alpha by Richard Cooper who is single. He also has a youtube channel I like. But his book was kind of his take on the Rational Male by Rollo Tomassi. Rollo is married, and I think he is a better speaker than writer. I loved that I finally was reading a bunch of guys who knew how I felt, were smart, and could justify my need to see multiple women9.

Anyway, Rollo said something that stuck with me. He said that his marriage is not work, and marriages should not be work. That kind of goes against everything that has been preached to us, but I liked that. If your marriage is not great, then why stay in it? Why settle?

I do not think that a lot of guys understand that I did the SB thing not because of some need for commitment or to pay women to like me but because the sex was better. How hard are people really going to try for money? I remember watching a boxer.[/QUOTE]Steve put it best. No matter how good she is, you eventually get bored. We want different, unpredictable, and exciting.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2589420]To Elvis's question of can you have a girl so good in bed you don't want others I would say YES but it's about the BJ not the sex. To me there is only so creative she can get with her pussy. Yes some girls look just spectacular cowgirling. And yes some look you strong in the eyes in mish and make you feel the most desirable man in the world as you pump one out. But it's the BJ that separates a woman from all else.

If I had a woman who could give a mind bending BJ like no other (Rivetta? Andressa? Noleta? Anna?) and was into doing that at least once a day maybe more then yeah I'the have a keeper on my hands. At least that's what I think now. After a year of mind bending BJs maybe I'the get bored. Hope to find out some day. LOL.[/QUOTE]You either train the girls or you pick them well. LOL. I find very few girls know how to do that mind blowing BJ. It has to be slow, have variety, and stamina. Plus, her technique must be good. A rare combination. Girls don't seem to understand it is not the act or the orgasm. It is the pleasure and how long you can keep a man on the edge. The example that come to mind is a girl that allowed me to fuck her mouth like a pussy. She would just alter the pressure by her lip and tongue. She could change the pressure rhythmically or make it feel like a virgin. Totally mind blowing.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2589307]I have to admit it surprises me guys asking them to delete their profiles. I mean the point of SA is it's NSA. I feel like we shouldn't be demanding exclusivity of each other it's not like we are getting married. And I'm not being exclusive so it seems a bit harsh to ask her to be.

I will admit I don't love it if I see a girl I am pretty regular with still on the prowl. And I surely don't want to hear about it. But these girls got to pay the rent and I'm not really their boyfriend. Anyhow I guess my philosophy is live and let live on this one.[/QUOTE]Bingo. Unless you are paying all her expenses, she has someone else on the side. Even if she claims you are exclusive, she can still cheat. That is why I don't go cheap if I find someone good. If you under pay, she will trade up just like we do. She will go for the better deal or be unavailable. The beauty is SA is that there is another target on the next page. If a gal ghosts you, you just move on. No need to be obsessed. That's for losers.

[QUOTE=Akibono;2589431]You either train the girls or you pick them well. LOL. I find very few girls know how to do that mind blowing BJ. It has to be slow, have variety, and stamina. Plus, her technique must be good. A rare combination. Girls don't seem to understand it is not the act or the orgasm. It is the pleasure and how long you can keep a man on the edge. The example that come to mind is a girl that allowed me to fuck her mouth like a pussy. She would just alter the pressure by her lip and tongue. She could change the pressure rhythmically or make it feel like a virgin. Totally mind blowing.[/QUOTE]Haha. Well part of it is just seeing a ton of girls. If you see 100 you are bound to find one or two BBBJ masters. To be fair Anna, Noleta, and Rivetta are all pros. Andressa was not a pro but was the closest thing to a Unicorn ever. 9. 5 looks 9. 5 personality 9. 5 skills 9. 5 attitude. Scandallo girl 2019.

I have however trained a few up a bit. Alexa was too vanilla and no harmonica. Same with Layla. Both took direction well and eventually became top performers. Layla is a ghost now but Alexa is still on my hit list and down to travel again. Can't wait to see her because she is a to die for cutie with a perfect bod to boot.

[QUOTE=Akibono;2589431]You either train the girls or you pick them well. LOL. I find very few girls know how to do that mind blowing BJ. It has to be slow, have variety, and stamina. Plus, her technique must be good. A rare combination. Girls don't seem to understand it is not the act or the orgasm. It is the pleasure and how long you can keep a man on the edge. The example that come to mind is a girl that allowed me to fuck her mouth like a pussy. She would just alter the pressure by her lip and tongue. She could change the pressure rhythmically or make it feel like a virgin. Totally mind blowing.[/QUOTE]An underrated technique is intense suction. I find that gets me going. It's rare because many women seem to rely on too much dick licking and kissing combined with lackluster head movement when in it's in their mouth.

I always joke about the hot girls who tell me their old boyfriends say how great they are at giving head. These guys are the problem.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2589420]To Elvis's question of can you have a girl so good in bed you don't want others I would say YES but it's about the BJ not the sex. To me there is only so creative she can get with her pussy. [/QUOTE]You must use condoms Steve because before I went bare (after reading a huge metanalysis study that showed condoms do not really work for STDs) I would have agreed with you. Afterwards, there was a huge variation with fucking. In fact, the condoms almost protect you from a girl's snatch that is so tight it bites or is just the right amount of tight. It is hard to for me to fuck with condoms now. It is almost like what is the point?

And I do not mean to brag but my gal looks at sex like a workout and likes doing cowgirl most the time. How often is that you have a girl fuck you so hard she has sweat pouring off and if the bed is not bolted down, moves it around the room she is humping you so hard. My main concern is if this sexual energy (or stocking wearing) ends. I mean look at this episode of one of my favorite shows ever Coupling here at the 9:54 mark: [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_aUwbt5Pos[/URL].

Steve Taylor: There are three things all men should know, and it's time you did too. You're never going to be famous, you're fatter than you think, and, most important of all, they don't keep wearing stockings.

Jeffrey 'Jeff' Murdock: Julia always wears stockings. No, really! She's always worn them. She always will. She told me.

(Steve and Patrick chuckle).

Jeffrey 'Jeff' Murdock: In fact, Julia told me she.

Steve Taylor, Patrick Maitland: (finishing with him). Prefers wearing stockings.

Jeffrey 'Jeff' Murdock: What?

Steve Taylor: Stockings aren't real, Jeff. They're a myth.

Jeffrey 'Jeff' Murdock: Stockings are real. I've seen 'them.

Steve Taylor: Oh, sure there are some stockings out there, but. There's. What? Ten pairs in the whole world?

Patrick Maitland: Ten, at most.

Steve Taylor: Ten pairs for all the women in the world. They share 'them out.

(Speaking in a woman's voice).

Steve Taylor: Oh, Julia! Why'got a new boyfriend? Your turn with the stockings then, but we'll need them back on Tuesday. There's an anniversary in New Zealand.

Jeffrey 'Jeff' Murdock: Tuesday?

Steve Taylor: The stockings will go, Jeff. They'll just melt away.

I kind of wonder if this is the real reason we look for strange. This is why I swore off monogamy. I only want to fuck women with stockings!

As for blowjobs, I know what you mean. There is nothing like a good BJ but they have two functions: to get you up and to get you off. Ironically, there was one stripper at my favorite club, and she had to finish me off quick. I would go to the club see her and shoo her away at first because her BJ was so good she would get me off in like 2 seconds. My routine was to get turned on with dances from the other girls and then see her for relief. I only did that a few thousand times.

I think what you mean is the kind of blowjob where the woman hits you in just the right spot so you are dying to fuck her right? I have had a handful of woman who hit the right spots, maybe five that gave out of this world head. My girl is not top five with head sensually but again she brings such energy she gets me hard. It is weird in that I think I have better orgasms with oral or a hand job but it is not quite the stress relief because there is no exertion, so I do not feel like that is real sex. I guess everyone is different.

Shit, what do you think women would do to us if we had this discussion any place but here?

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2589470]Haha. Well part of it is just seeing a ton of girls. If you see 100 you are bound to find one or two BBBJ masters. To be fair Anna, Noleta, and Rivetta are all pros. Andressa was not a pro but was the closest thing to a Unicorn ever. 9. 5 looks 9. 5 personality 9. 5 skills 9. 5 attitude. Scandallo girl 2019.

I have however trained a few up a bit. Alexa was too vanilla and no harmonica. Same with Layla. Both took direction well and eventually became top performers. Layla is a ghost now but Alexa is still on my hit list and down to travel again. Can't wait to see her because she is a to die for cutie with a perfect bod to boot.[/QUOTE]Well you might just send them a tutorial video. Here is one.

[URL]https://www.pornhub.com/view_video.php?viewkey=ph5eedb1cf26548[/URL]

[QUOTE=Akibono;2589556]Well you might just send them a tutorial video. Here is one.

[URL]https://www.pornhub.com/view_video.php?viewkey=ph5eedb1cf26548[/URL][/QUOTE]Not bad. She's a bit too teasey for me. Not enough BLS and no harmonica boo! I find the Japanese really know a good BJ. I subscribed to [URL]FellatioJapan.com[/URL] for a while even tho paying for porn is dumb. But that's how good it is.

But I realize that even what is excellent varies. Rivetta had a way of putting her tongue flat at the top while she gave you the best doe eyes on the planet and then would take it deep without losing eye contact. Can't put my finger on Noletas magic but I had what felt like a ten minute long climax with her. And Anna I know exactly what it was. She had this great buffet of blowjob but when I was getting close she would crawl up and DFK me and I'the ease off the edge and she would go down again. She could just sense when I was close and would DFK me. It was amazing because went on forever.

I'm a big fan of mixing in harmonica and BLS along with full on mouth action. It's the buffet that does it for me.

I totally understand you guys when you say we should allow SBs to see others SDs. But OTOH, aren't we on SA for some semi-genuine GFE? If we are totally okay with our SBs seeing other SDs, then isn't this the same thing as being with a WG?

Of the 25 or so SBs that I hooked up with on SA, I had relationships with about half of them. I did feel that while we were seeing each other, we should be kind of exclusive. This, of course, only applied to my home market. When I used SA on the road, then I did not care if those girls saw other guys.

So, what I expected with non-PPM SBs in my home market was something like this: We meet, we totally fall for each other, we see each other regularly, I help her with expenses, she does not fuck other guys, we both get off of SA, but when the relationship fizzles after a few months, then we both go back on SA. Many of my SBs did this without my even asking them to. After we met and fell for each other, she would take her profile off the site and so did I. Then, after a couple of months of awesome raw dogging, traveling, wining and dining, we both get bored and we move on. However, I later discovered that some of these SBs had other profiles and were on other arrangement sites, which kind of pissed me off.

I obviously do not get pissed of when a WG fucks other guys. Should I feel the same way if an SB fucks other guys? If so, then what's the difference between an SB and a WG?

The difference is fuzzy. I started seeing one WG regularly after she tried to go legit. It was great. But then I found out later that she went back to hooking. I was pretty devastated. I stopped seeing her for a few months. But then I saw her again, and it was like old times. I will see her again, even though she is hooking again. Is she an SB or is she a WG?

Maybe the difference between my view and some of your views is that I did view SBs as longer term arrangements, whereas maybe a lot of you guys look at them as very short term arrangements or as PPMs. But if this is the case, then doesn't this mean that you guys are not really seeking arrangements?

I look at SBs as one notch below GF. Seems like some of you guys may see SBs as one notch above WG. If so, then this just explains our difference in views on the exclusivity issue.

Again, not arguing with you guys. Just think this is an interesting discussion, and so I wanted to share my thoughts for your consideration.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2589547]You must use condoms Steve because before I went bare (after reading a huge metanalysis study that showed condoms do not really work for STDs) I would have agreed with you. Afterwards, there was a huge variation with fucking. In fact, the condoms almost protect you from a girl's snatch that is so tight it bites or is just the right amount of tight. It is hard to for me to fuck with condoms now. It is almost like what is the point?

And I do not mean to brag but my gal looks at sex like a workout and likes doing cowgirl most the time. How often is that you have a girl fuck you so hard she has sweat pouring off and if the bed is not bolted down, moves it around the room she is humping you so hard. My main concern is if this sexual energy (or stocking wearing) ends. I mean look at this episode of one of my favorite shows ever Coupling here at the 9:54 mark: [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_aUwbt5Pos[/URL].

Steve Taylor: There are three things all men should know, and it's time you did too. You're never going to be famous, you're fatter than you think, and, most important of all, they don't keep wearing stockings.

Jeffrey 'Jeff' Murdock: Julia always wears stockings. No, really! She's always worn them. She always will. She told me.

(Steve and Patrick chuckle).

Jeffrey 'Jeff' Murdock: In fact, Julia told me she.

Steve Taylor, Patrick Maitland: (finishing with him). Prefers wearing stockings.

Jeffrey 'Jeff' Murdock: What?

Steve Taylor: Stockings aren't real, Jeff. They're a myth.

Jeffrey 'Jeff' Murdock: Stockings are real. I've seen 'them.

Steve Taylor: Oh, sure there are some stockings out there, but. There's. What? Ten pairs in the whole world?

Patrick Maitland: Ten, at most.

Steve Taylor: Ten pairs for all the women in the world. They share 'them out.

(Speaking in a woman's voice).

Steve Taylor: Oh, Julia! Why'got a new boyfriend? Your turn with the stockings then, but we'll need them back on Tuesday. There's an anniversary in New Zealand.

Jeffrey 'Jeff' Murdock: Tuesday?

Steve Taylor: The stockings will go, Jeff. They'll just melt away.

I kind of wonder if this is the real reason we look for strange. This is why I swore off monogamy. I only want to fuck women with stockings!

As for blowjobs, I know what you mean. There is nothing like a good BJ but they have two functions: to get you up and to get you off. Ironically, there was one stripper at my favorite club, and she had to finish me off quick. I would go to the club see her and shoo her away at first because her BJ was so good she would get me off in like 2 seconds. My routine was to get turned on with dances from the other girls and then see her for relief. I only did that a few thousand times.

I think what you mean is the kind of blowjob where the woman hits you in just the right spot so you are dying to fuck her right? I have had a handful of woman who hit the right spots, maybe five that gave out of this world head. My girl is not top five with head sensually but again she brings such energy she gets me hard. It is weird in that I think I have better orgasms with oral or a hand job but it is not quite the stress relief because there is no exertion, so I do not feel like that is real sex. I guess everyone is different.

Shit, what do you think women would do to us if we had this discussion any place but here?[/QUOTE]Yeah I have no doubt that the subtleties are a lot more obvious bareback. Fucking with a condom indeed lame and I consider it just a part of the affair because as you say you need some animal pounding as a man. But BBBJ is the main event if you have to fuck with a condom. I'm not worried about STD. I just don't want to leave some unwise girl with a big lifelong boat anchor.

But we are all different. Like if you super dig cowgirl I think you are in the minority. Most guys like it in and out and to be in charge. Girls like to grind their clit. So cowgirl tends to be the least satisfying for me (and many guys I think). I'll take making out in mish over just about anything else — besides BBBJ.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2589570]I totally understand you guys when you say we should allow SBs to see others SDs. But OTOH, aren't we on SA for some semi-genuine GFE? If we are totally okay with our SBs seeing other SDs, then isn't this the same thing as being with a WG?

Of the 25 or so SBs that I hooked up with on SA, I had relationships with about half of them. I did feel that while we were seeing each other, we should be kind of exclusive. This, of course, only applied to my home market. When I used SA on the road, then I did not care if those girls saw other guys.

So, what I expected with non-PPM SBs in my home market was something like this: We meet, we totally fall for each other, we see each other regularly, I help her with expenses, she does not fuck other guys, we both get off of SA, but when the relationship fizzles after a few months, then we both go back on SA. Many of my SBs did this without my even asking them to. After we met and fell for each other, she would take her profile off the site and so did I. Then, after a couple of months of awesome raw dogging, traveling, wining and dining, we both get bored and we move on. However, I later discovered that some of these SBs had other profiles and were on other arrangement sites, which kind of pissed me off.

I obviously do not get pissed of when a WG fucks other guys. Should I feel the same way if an SB fucks other guys? If so, then what's the difference between an SB and a WG?

The difference is fuzzy. I started seeing one WG regularly after she tried to go legit. It was great. But then I found out later that she went back to hooking. I was pretty devastated. I stopped seeing her for a few months. But then I saw her again, and it was like old times. I will see her again, even though she is hooking again. Is she an SB or is she a WG?

Maybe the difference between my view and some of your views is that I did view SBs as longer term arrangements, whereas maybe a lot of you guys look at them as very short term arrangements or as PPMs. But if this is the case, then doesn't this mean that you guys are not really seeking arrangements?

I look at SBs as one notch below GF. Seems like some of you guys may see SBs as one notch above WG. If so, then this just explains our difference in views on the exclusivity issue.

Again, not arguing with you guys. Just think this is an interesting discussion, and so I wanted to share my thoughts for your consideration.[/QUOTE]Really I think the difference between us is our POV on monogamy. I think it's an unnatural farce and waste of mental and emotional energy. We all want to fuck more than one person (except Elvis. Heheheh) so why do we prevent our partners from doing so? If fucking another guy makes her happy I want that for her. Frankly I hope she is fucking some amazingly handsome studs because good for her — she deserves it.

I don't want to hear about it because yes even I have that instant jealous reaction. But what I don't know won't hurt me and if it makes her happy then rock on. No monogamy for any involved party. That's my philosophy.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2589570]I totally understand you guys when you say we should allow SBs to see others SDs. But OTOH, aren't we on SA for some semi-genuine GFE? If we are totally okay with our SBs seeing other SDs, then isn't this the same thing as being with a WG?

Of the 25 or so SBs that I hooked up with on SA, I had relationships with about half of them. I did feel that while we were seeing each other, we should be kind of exclusive. This, of course, only applied to my home market. When I used SA on the road, then I did not care if those girls saw other guys.

So, what I expected with non-PPM SBs in my home market was something like this: We meet, we totally fall for each other, we see each other regularly, I help her with expenses, she does not fuck other guys, we both get off of SA, but when the relationship fizzles after a few months, then we both go back on SA. Many of my SBs did this without my even asking them to. After we met and fell for each other, she would take her profile off the site and so did I. Then, after a couple of months of awesome raw dogging, traveling, wining and dining, we both get bored and we move on. However, I later discovered that some of these SBs had other profiles and were on other arrangement sites, which kind of pissed me off..[/QUOTE]Sorry, I shouldn't have used the word hypocrisy in my prior post. Too harsh and unnecessarily judgmental, sorry about that. I totally get your pov. Wanting to have exclusive arrangement, even if it is expected to temporary is absolutely fine. I would only have a problem if the guy intends to keep seeing multiple girls off and on SA but demands exclusivity from his girls. Actually even that is OK if the guy makes it clear to the girl that he intends to see other women but wants her to be exclusive to him. If the girl agrees to it, why not? I remember there were some porn girls who would do scenes only with their boyfriends but the boyfriend would fuck other girls on the screen. I guess it works for them, so it is no one else's business.

As for "is the girl WG if the guy and girl are not exclusive to each other" - that would not be my thought. We are not calling the guy a gigolo or whatever here, why use labels? We all know and think SA girls are not tutes by any stretch. She is not dropping to her knees and sucking 10 strangers' dicks a night for a few hundred dollars each. I think of each of these arrangements as a friends with benefits relation. Imagine a world where sex was not taboo. People fuck because they like fucking. She likes sex, I like sex, I help out a little because I can and she needs it. There is no expectation that I need to keep fucking her again and again because I fucked her once, or twice or a few times.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2589570]I totally understand you guys when you say we should allow SBs to see others SDs. But OTOH, aren't we on SA for some semi-genuine GFE? If we are totally okay with our SBs seeing other SDs, then isn't this the same thing as being with a WG?

Again, not arguing with you guys. Just think this is an interesting discussion, and so I wanted to share my thoughts for your consideration.[/QUOTE]Yeah, it is always good to be looking out for the definition because so many people try to define a sugar baby / daddy and miss.

Thing is when I started I was married and it would be hypocritical for me to say you cannot have a BF when I am banging the Mrs.

What I told my gals is they could have another SD (but not 10). Maybe some had more. I do not know. I am not sure how much you can control women on this subject. In general though, I do not think women want a whole lot of lovers.

As for what separates WG from SBs, to me, it is the emotional component. With a SB, I want to give money to enhance her life. With a WG, if she wants to take the money I give to her and put it up her nose, I don't care.

With most of my ex SBs, if they called me or I called them, it would be a positive thing. I hope I influenced their life in a positive way.

[QUOTE=Mongerer88;2588903]Very interesting theory. I think ISG's emphasis on the third world gathers guys with a different viewpoint than most guys who mostly see USA Escorts.

I was intrigued by TJBrazil's skepticism about there being USA Nurse's and engineers on the SA site. If a young lady earns $100,000 a year, and also likes sex, why in the world would she not be interested in earning an additional $10,000 of cash income and gifts a year doing something that is not all that time consuming? It happens all of the time. Some of those potential ladies escort, but that requires a lot more effort, upfront cost, and chance of obvious discovery than SA. It is a dream come true for them. They are going on a date. I also did not understand TJBrazil's belief that the gift section of SA somehow substituted for a "date fee", or that it was there to provide additional legal protection. It is designed as an additional gift. It is not illegal in the USA To purchase the time and companionship of an escort, and it is certainly not illegal to pay someone to go on a date. Direct cash for sex is illegal, and soliciting sex for cash is illegal (which is the basis for almost all USA Prostitution arrests, since directly proving that sex occurs is very difficult).[/QUOTE]A few things. If a girl is making 100 k as a nurse, SA could be a dangerous side hobby to make an extra 10 k. People are killed on tinder Craigslist and I'm assuming SA. It just doesn't make sense to me. 100 k is a lot in pretty much any city unless you're a complete nut with money like Mike Tyson. Why can't the girl have sex with a doctor or someone else that isn't on SA.

Your other point about the gifts being used as cover for illegal prostitution. There has to be Something to it from the owner of SA perspective. There are a lot of dumb johns that are still getting arrested on the street and with online stings when they mention sex for money. Sure paying a escort for her time is legal, but I don't think a lot of men in America got the message, or stings would never produce any arrests. Also I imagine the moderators are constantly flagging and deleting accounts of people that talk about sex for money. Adding the gifts section allows more profits and for even the dumbest johns to stay out of trouble.

[QUOTE=Gfefan;2589276]I signed up on SA a few months ago but there were many who were obviously escorts. While I chatted up a few good ones, due to personal circumstances (plus annoyed by the escorts), I went off of it. I'm back on now. Chatted with over 40 profiles and weeded down to 4 leads. (10% hit rate; will be weeded down further).

Of the 4 leads worth pursuing, one is a 34 year old Pics looks like a 8; Single mom but just looking for some fun. Another is a 33 year old She was apparently in a serious relationship but broke up about a year ago. She just wants to have a 'man' occasionally. She has even shared her personal name, work place, phone number with me. Meeting her for a first M&G next weekend. Looking forward to it (but a bit wary that this one is coming off of a relationship. Let's see how it goes). Both these don't seem to be expecting anything in return other than taking them out for dinners / weekend getaways but will know more when I do M&G.

On the other end of spectrum, there are a couple of 20/22 y. o claiming to be students. Of course, I will screen them and test if they are really students but they keep directing to conversations around "gifts", "pamper me", "take care of me, I will take care of you" kind of things. Seems to be a significant difference in approach between the two demography.

I'm gradually getting back into the scene and I'm going to try both ends of the spectrum. Will circle back with detailed reports when things happen. I'm taking things slow and easy.

All said and done. I owe it to this forum and guidance from y'll veterans. Your tips / suggestions are much appreciated. Happy to contribute back to the forum.[/QUOTE]Where in Europe is this?

I myself, am living in Sweden. I have SBs in Gothenburg as well as Stockholm, I meet on a regular basis.

I have, when travelling in Europe, met girls in Athens, Berlin, Madrid so far.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2589570]Maybe the difference between my view and some of your views is that I did view SBs as longer term arrangements, whereas maybe a lot of you guys look at them as very short term arrangements or as PPMs. But if this is the case, then doesn't this mean that you guys are not really seeking arrangements?

I look at SBs as one notch below GF. Seems like some of you guys may see SBs as one notch above WG. If so, then this just explains our difference in views on the exclusivity issue.

Again, not arguing with you guys. Just think this is an interesting discussion, and so I wanted to share my thoughts for your consideration.[/QUOTE]It would seem that you are inadvertently stirring up the hornet's nest. This topic comes up here periodically and gets debated. PPM would seem to be enough definition to describe the relationship in contrast to "arrangements".

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2589575]But we are all different. Like if you super dig cowgirl I think you are in the minority. Most guys like it in and out and to be in charge. Girls like to grind their clit. So cowgirl tends to be the least satisfying for me (and many guys I think). I'll take making out in mish over just about anything else besides BBBJ.[/QUOTE]Haha! I can't agree more with Steve. I enjoy cowgirl initially. It's great if she has some nice breasts that you can cup. If the girl has a nice ass, reverse is a good view. However, the girl generally start to degenerate into a grinding motion that ain't doing much for little Wyatt other than keeping him warm. That's kind of when after a bit of grinding I say "okay let's try this position".

As a side note, Steve and others can relate to the spectacular view of a Brazilian girl in reverse cowgirl. Tan lines make it even more amazing. Since generally the Brazilian girls I have been with are WGs, they have a certain sexual athleticism. They can stay up on their legs in cowgirl thrusting longer than most women. I remember a Rio spark plug that draped my legs around a bottom corner of the mattress so my feet were on the floor. Then she had me lie back and she mounted with her feet on the floor. She then sprung up and down using the floor for leverage. The girl was 19 and she was demonstrating a modified reverse cowgirl to me. LOL.

[QUOTE=TjBrazil;2589657]A few things. If a girl is making 100 k as a nurse, SA could be a dangerous side hobby to make an extra 10 k. People are killed on tinder Craigslist and I'm assuming SA. It just doesn't make sense to me. 100 k is a lot in pretty much any city unless you're a complete nut with money like Mike Tyson. Why can't the girl have sex with a doctor or someone else that isn't on SA.

Your other point about the gifts being used as cover for illegal prostitution. There has to be Something to it from the owner of SA perspective. There are a lot of dumb johns that are still getting arrested on the street and with online stings when they mention sex for money. Sure paying a escort for her time is legal, but I don't think a lot of men in America got the message, or stings would never produce any arrests. Also I imagine the moderators are constantly flagging and deleting accounts of people that talk about sex for money. Adding the gifts section allows more profits and for even the dumbest johns to stay out of trouble.[/QUOTE]You make reasonable points, but I still think you bring a lower-end of the scene mentality into it that doesn't always apply.

I repeat a lot with the USA Escorts I see, and many of them started doing this in college and continue to see regulars until they are too old, or have a major life change. I had one tell me and all her regulars that she was leaving the business on a certain date, like June 27, and she replied LOL when I wished her a joyous wedding on June 28. Now granted many of them take down active escort ads and continue to communicate with regulars via email and text.

I simply assumed that SA is used as a powerful tool for relatively wealthier women who like money, gifts and sex to get the occasional bit of extra. I have met many men earning 100 K who simply didn't care about any more than that. I have never met a woman like that. There is always shopping to do. I always stayed at a hotel compensated for by business in Chicago near the magnificent mile. My favorite escort in Chicago would always show up with shopping bags because she said she looked forward to seeing me because it was her favorite neighborhood. She was going to college in Chicago and her parents were college professors in Europe. She needed the money, but she didn't absolutely need the money. I loved her. After I came once in her mouth, she just kept doing a light BBBJ for the next 15 or 20 minutes until I was hard again for covered full service. I never met another girl who could do that successfully. I think she returned to her home country of Greece.

And wealthier women are pretty good about not getting killed. I am sure the rich on SA want dinner at a really nice restaurant first. I doubt that the psycho stalking killer could fake it long enough to convince her to go to a seedy area with him afterward. And he would probably stab himself when he got the dinner bill.

I think that getting "outed" is pretty unlikely. Women go to dinners and hotel convention meeting all the time, even in their hometowns. It isn't the Middle East where they need male chaperones. And street busts and mass classified ad solicitation arrests really have little to do with a Seeking Arrangement or independent escorting with screening. There are Two Americas, and a lot of ISG want to connect them, even though they aren't really connected.

Belgium / NL / Germany border area.

[QUOTE=BlueSwede;2589679]Where in Europe is this?

I myself, am living in Sweden. I have SBs in Gothenburg as well as Stockholm, I meet on a regular basis.

I have, when travelling in Europe, met girls in Athens, Berlin, Madrid so far.[/QUOTE]

I have tried 5 email addresses, cleared cookies, turned off vpn but still get account suspension when trying to signup. Support want a photo or passport copy to open an account. Any ideas?

[QUOTE=Mongerer88;2589809]
I think that getting "outed" is pretty unlikely. Women go to dinners and hotel convention meeting all the time, even in their hometowns. [/QUOTE]I saw this article a few weeks ago, made the news here in Au.

A bitter divorce between a top New York City spine surgeon and his beauty-queen wife was quickly settled Monday — after he filed court papers making tawdry accusations that she was moonlighting as a high-priced call girl.

[URL]https://nypost.com/2021/07/26/nyc-surgeon-beauty-queen-wife-settle-divorce-amid-hooker-allegations/[/URL].

[QUOTE=Rosebud1;2590152]I have tried 5 email addresses, cleared cookies, turned off vpn but still get account suspension when trying to signup. Support want a photo or passport copy to open an account. Any ideas?[/QUOTE]Have you been a bad boy?

Maybe go to a cafe and use the free wifi. Use a different browser on your laptop or sign up on your phone.

What picture are you using? If it's anything from Facebook it won't work if you are trying to hide. I think they scan facebook, pics and compare to the pic you use. Suggest signing up without a pic or find an online fake pic to get started.

It's also no problems to send them your ID. You are legit right?

[QUOTE=BrizLad;2590436]I saw this article a few weeks ago, made the news here in Au.

A bitter divorce between a top New York City spine surgeon and his beauty-queen wife was quickly settled Monday after he filed court papers making tawdry accusations that she was moonlighting as a high-priced call girl.

[URL]https://nypost.com/2021/07/26/nyc-surgeon-beauty-queen-wife-settle-divorce-amid-hooker-allegations/[/URL].[/QUOTE]Wow, she is hot and well within my type, well, one of my types. Entertaining read. I feel sorry for the guy, but OTOH, if you are financially and professionally successful and just want to marry a super hottie, then why get married at all? Anyway, none of my business.

This gal reminds me of one of my core beliefs when it comes to exes. Once you have had sex with someone, it is easy to have sex with that person again, even years later, or, even after she is later married, or, even if she's an ex-WG and has gone legit. I recently had sex with a ex-WG who is now engaged. In her mind, she is not cheating since she has already had sex with me about two dozen times. I bet for this girl in the NY Post story, most of the johns that she met after she got married were regular clients from before she got married. She probably did not think she was doing anything wrong toward her husband.

[URL]https://people.com/sports/olympic-runner-suzy-favor-hamilton-describes-working-as-a-las-vegas-call-girl/[/URL]

You guys in your 50's will remember her. Suzie Favor Hamilton. Some gals hook for the thrills.

[QUOTE=BrizLad;2590436]I saw this article a few weeks ago, made the news here in Au.

A bitter divorce between a top New York City spine surgeon and his beauty-queen wife was quickly settled Monday after he filed court papers making tawdry accusations that she was moonlighting as a high-priced call girl.

[URL]https://nypost.com/2021/07/26/nyc-surgeon-beauty-queen-wife-settle-divorce-amid-hooker-allegations/[/URL].[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2590916][URL]https://people.com/sports/olympic-runner-suzy-favor-hamilton-describes-working-as-a-las-vegas-call-girl/[/URL]

You guys in your 50's will remember her. Suzie Favor Hamilton. Some gals hook for the thrills.[/QUOTE]Yes, great examples by both of you guys. And there was of course the small town Maine Zumba Instructor, who had an incredible work ethic, and taught the women Zumba in the morning, fucked the guys in the afternoon and evening, and did most excellent pornography (alternating a popsicle between her vagina and mouth in one of the most highly rated ones) when not fucking the guys. All while being a single mom. Her downfall was only reporting her meager Zumba instructor income when getting public assistance.

[URL]https://www.vanityfair.com/culture/2013/02/zumba-alexis-wright-prostitution[/URL]

That all having been said, these cases were of interest to the media (which often opens the investigation by reporting on it before the police are involved, and with Suzy the police never got involved ever). You had an Olympic athlete, a former Miss America contestant, and the ultimate The Whole Town Knew lady. And it's like discussing an airplane crash. You get the impression that there are a lot of airplane crashes if you focus on them. There aren't, compared to the total number of flights.

I still argue that for a typical female nurse or engineer or computer programmer, etc, she can fuck for money, even if married, without getting the interest of the media or law enforcement.

The one example of licensing boards taking an interest in this form of moonlighting is, ironically, lawyers.

[URL]https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-2013-06-02-ct-met-lawyer-prostitution-20130602-story.html[/URL]

Slight pat on the back for reading my girl and having my options open. So I learned the hard way with Valentina to read my girl. Even tho I felt like she dumped me out of the blue when I go back thru it in my mind there was a point where she got distant like I don't really have time to text you all the time. That kinda thing. I'm sure that's when she got her new SD and prepared to use me and break my heart.

Anyhow long way of saying live and learn. I was flying Mika to a major city again to reprise our fun together. But she was seeming distant not her responsive and bubbly self. So I asked her about it and she said she had some problems and trouble getting off work. Rather than moping I quickly cut her loose and said we'll do it another time.

Quickly hooked up Michelle as the sure thing and she's thrilled but then quickly picked up another SA hottie for a different night. So I've got the sure (but slightly boring?) thing and the super hot wild card. Feeling good about having the girl radar thanks to the school of hard knocks and having the Rolodex and game to fill the void. Excited.

[QUOTE=Gfefan;2589276]I signed up on SA a few months ago but there were many who were obviously escorts. While I chatted up a few good ones, due to personal circumstances (plus annoyed by the escorts), I went off of it. I'm back on now. Chatted with over 40 profiles and weeded down to 4 leads. (10% hit rate; will be weeded down further).

Of the 4 leads worth pursuing, one is a 34 year old Pics looks like a 8; Single mom but just looking for some fun. Another is a 33 year old She was apparently in a serious relationship but broke up about a year ago. She just wants to have a 'man' occasionally. She has even shared her personal name, work place, phone number with me. Meeting her for a first M&G next weekend. Looking forward to it (but a bit wary that this one is coming off of a relationship. Let's see how it goes). Both these don't seem to be expecting anything in return other than taking them out for dinners / weekend getaways but will know more when I do M&G.

On the other end of spectrum, there are a couple of 20/22 y. o claiming to be students. Of course, I will screen them and test if they are really students but they keep directing to conversations around "gifts", "pamper me", "take care of me, I will take care of you" kind of things. Seems to be a significant difference in approach between the two demography.

I'm gradually getting back into the scene and I'm going to try both ends of the spectrum. Will circle back with detailed reports when things happen. I'm taking things slow and easy.

All said and done. I owe it to this forum and guidance from y'll veterans. Your tips / suggestions are much appreciated. Happy to contribute back to the forum.[/QUOTE]Just read your post that it's partially NL. Sounds familiar to me.

I got lucky finding one that wasn't into it for the money. She wanted to explore her sexuality.

For the Netherlands it can be hard because the majority I talked with didn't want the money and sex on the same day. That stigma of being seen as a hooker.

Then there are the ones that know sex is part of the deal. But ask crazy prices / allowances for dutch standards.

Forgot, also had one that was hesitant at first but she had the assets I liked so I took a risk. Made the investment 150 just for talk during dinner. She felt comfortable after an we made a PPM deal. After a few meets she started talking about getting an allowance or looking for more PPM.

Apparently she talked to a friend who said she got more from her SD. Contact was broken off.

I believe there are a few gems out there in NL but I had better experiences with SB from other countries.

[QUOTE=Oneminuteboy;2591406]Just read your post that it's partially NL. Sounds familiar to me.

I got lucky finding one that wasn't into it for the money. She wanted to explore her sexuality.

For the Netherlands it can be hard because the majority I talked with didn't want the money and sex on the same day. That stigma of being seen as a hooker.

Then there are the ones that know sex is part of the deal. But ask crazy prices / allowances for dutch standards.

Forgot, also had one that was hesitant at first but she had the assets I liked so I took a risk. Made the investment 150 just for talk during dinner. She felt comfortable after an we made a PPM deal. After a few meets she started talking about getting an allowance or looking for more PPM.[/QUOTE]If you are meeting these girls on SA or some other sugar babe site, regardless of where they are located, they already expect some sugar, don't they? Why else are they on the site?

Perhaps what you are saying is that they want the sugar from you but don't give out sugar back to you?

If they don't like cold cash, can always do gifts. Or say, a portion of her monthly rent (depends on where you are; in my US home city. Not on the coasts. Rents for 1 bedroom apartment are not that high; it is actually a very good deal if a girl would let you fuck her once or twice a week for a month's rent); or you can offer other goodies in exchange for her sugar.

In fact, that is the type of arrangement SA likes best. Makes it look less transactional.

I can understand prices are high in ND. It is a rich country, mostly urban, and women make good money. That is akin to the situation in the coastal cities in the US. Prices are high, selection of women is less than optimal (for me, anyway during my travels). The best cities for me are those in the half a million to a couple of million population cities in the flyover country. People are not so rich, plenty of women in economic distress and agreeable to good deals.

Just wanted to add my two cents to the cowgirl discussion. If she grinds forwards and backwards, instead of going up and down, then that is my favorite position.

If you guys are in your mid or late 50's and older, then you might remember that cowgirl used to be considered a sissy position about three decades ago, 1980's, because it was like letting the girl fuck us instead of the other way around. I was kinda in that camp too, until I met this super hot blonde pyscho with huge natural tits. She used to ride me cowgirl so hard, as if my dick was not enough for her. She would grind so hard, trying to get as much dick as possible inside of her, that the next day, the bone above my dick was bruised and very sore. Because of her, I have been searching for girls that can replicate that. I tried teaching it to many girls, but no one can do it the way she did it.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2591661]Just wanted to add my two cents to the cowgirl discussion. If she grinds forwards and backwards, instead of going up and down, then that is my favorite position.

If you guys are in your mid or late 50's and older, then you might remember that cowgirl used to be considered a sissy position about three decades ago, 1980's, because it was like letting the girl fuck us instead of the other way around. I was kinda in that camp too, until I met this super hot blonde pyscho with huge natural tits. She used to ride me cowgirl so hard, as if my dick was not enough for her. She would grind so hard, trying to get as much dick as possible inside of her, that the next day, the bone above my dick was bruised and very sore. Because of her, I have been searching for girls that can replicate that. I tried teaching it to many girls, but no one can do it the way she did it.[/QUOTE]You are quite correct. It was just a position to show penetration. Funny how that was sexy. I don't like that position because they rarely get the angle correct and it is hard to keep that strong erection. The girl is supposed to pivot her hips. Bouncing is a recipe for disaster. If she wants it hard, I can dish it out in missionary while they dream. I have encountered a few sex crazy girls. Tough to satisfy and their lives are always a mess. But there are an endless supply of guys to solve problems.

[QUOTE=Mongerer88;2590929]Yes, great examples by both of you guys. And there was of course the small town Maine Zumba Instructor, who had an incredible work ethic, and taught the women Zumba in the morning, fucked the guys in the afternoon and evening, and did most excellent pornography (alternating a popsicle between her vagina and mouth in one of the most highly rated ones) when not fucking the guys. All while being a single mom. Her downfall was only reporting her meager Zumba instructor income when getting public assistance.

[URL]https://www.vanityfair.com/culture/2013/02/zumba-alexis-wright-prostitution[/URL][/QUOTE]Mongerer88,

I read this article. It's a perfect example of the USA Approach to sex work. The releasing of names whether there was evidence or not was terrifying. You don't know how, why and when law enforcement is going to take people down. It's a big charade.

The rest of the world simply shrugs when it comes to prostitution.

[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2591787]Mongerer88,

I read this article. It's a perfect example of the USA Approach to sex work. The releasing of names whether there was evidence or not was terrifying. You don't know how, why and when law enforcement is going to take people down. It's a big charade.

The rest of the world simply shrugs when it comes to prostitution.[/QUOTE]There is a difference between commercial establishments and SA type arrangements which are one on ones. If a dude flies under the radar and is careful, should be OK in setting up arrangements.

However, the way they are trying to take down Matt Gaetz and his buddy in FL is a bit scary because I remember reading about sugar daddy sites. However, in their case it was a high profile issue (like Spitzer) and also those two (Gaetz and his buddy, some county honcho) were over the top and too out there.

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2592244]There is a difference between commercial establishments and SA type arrangements which are one on ones. If a dude flies under the radar and is careful, should be OK in setting up arrangements.

However, the way they are trying to take down Matt Gaetz and his buddy in FL is a bit scary because I remember reading about sugar daddy sites. However, in their case it was a high profile issue (like Spitzer) and also those two (Gaetz and his buddy, some county honcho) were over the top and too out there.[/QUOTE]You seem to forget they were dealing with a minor. So, that alone is a felony. Plus, by working together, they were essentially trafficking women. Given, the recent publicity of Epstein, people are very sensitive to that. The SA part was just salacious.

[QUOTE=Akibono;2592470]You seem to forget they were dealing with a minor. So, that alone is a felony. Plus, by working together, they were essentially trafficking women. Given, the recent publicity of Epstein, people are very sensitive to that. The SA part was just salacious.[/QUOTE]"Minor" - are we talking about the Gaetz case? You are right that I am forgetting the details; actually, I did not follow the case that much. But what struck me, if I remember it correctly, is that the Feds initially got into the case looking at sugarbabe sites? I vaguely remember somehow sugar daddy connection figuring in the case from the beginning. Perhaps I am wrong, or don't remember right as you said.

Trafficking charges can sometimes sound ominous but the reality may be more benign. I am no expert on this subject. But it is not as if Gaetz and his pal were pimps, or playing a role like Romie loverboys; if those girls had been provided transportation, crossed state lines, or passed onto a friend or associate, it may be called trafficking? Not sure, perhaps the experts would know here.

Anyway, anytime SA figures in any high profile case, it makes me jumpy.

Over the past year I lurked this thread since post 1 due to C19 situation and never really knew about the SA scene. Posts of all the successes made me bite the bullet with a subscription about 6 months ago to give it a shot on my own. Suffice it to say I've had both successes and failures, but mostly success jaja. Managed to get great GFE from about 10 non-pros with occasional bareback so I am quite pleased with the results. Some of the best lessons that worked for me which I have gathered from the wisdom here are it will take a lot of leads to get viable prospects, not to give money in advance to a meeting no matter how pathetic their sob story is, speak in transparent innuendo about what I want for an arrangement off the SA site to mitigate lack of sex, act as if you are giving a "gift" for what they "need" in life as opposed to direct P4P to avert the anti-**** defense, and chatting up girls about 2 weeks prior to proposed meeting times to prevent conversations from staling. Overall I have been dissatisfied with SA in the US due to the amount of flakiness I have experienced, egregious price gouging over the past months, and underlying legal risks. I essentially have been exclusively utilizing SA in Mexico since I speak intermediate Spanish with fantastic results.

Over the next year, the plan is to make full week-long trips to other foreign cities and utilizing SA to hopefully get the same results I have enjoyed in Mexico. My goal is to get 3-4 short term GF's for the week who will provide the GFE in addition to touring me around their city, which I don't think pros in their respective locations are interested in doing. What are your opinions about the effectiveness of SA in the following cities: Lima Peru, Cartagena Colombia, Madrid Spain, San Jose Costa Rica?

So you guys know I hit a fair number of home runs on Seeking with my due diligence and subsequent awesome charm. (Yeah I'm going with that!) But Kayla is a full on grand slam. Total 9-9. 5 on anyone's scale and all mine!

I ended up cancelling Mika even tho I dig her because she was having some personal issues and the trip was adding stress to her life. She doesn't need that. So I regrouped and came up with Kayla. As usual awesome chat led to awesome in person vibe.

Full report soon but the highlights are that she's staying all weekend. And at our first session Friday night she said if she gets to know me better we can lose the condom (already BBBJ of course). Well I guess she got to know me better that night when we went out because damn if she didn't bareback me a few hours later. And a few times since!

OMG it does not get any better than having a nine for your girlfriend barebacking you for the weekend!

Yes, there are two issues. One, as Akibino mentioned, is that one of the ladies was allegedly a minor at the time. This is the third or fourth high-profile case (one on the east coast and one in Canada) where a minor was presenting herself as being of legal age on S. A. As with the Backpage situation, that increases the relative likelihood that USA Federal law enforcement might take action against S. A. It hasn't happened yet, and may never happen. But it was the existence of minors on the site that was the eventual downfall of Backpage. Some say the difference in advertising will keep that from happening, but the current trove of data that Greenberg gave to the Feds is full of Price Per Meet (PPM) notations, so I am not sure that argument really prevails. The other issue is that Greenberg, Gaetz, and a couple of others (who sent WhatsApp messages saying to leave them the fuck out if this when the federal investigation began because they did not see the alleged minor) communicated about the different ladies and allegedly had the ladies cross state lines on trips. The existence of the alleged minor and the fact that the ladies crossed state lines (along with a coordinated effort) all theoretically make this a federal case. The risk to a typical user is whether the federal government takes action against S. A. If not, then there is little to worry about if everyone a person sees is 18 or older. I suppose having a lady cross state lines matters a little bit, but the Gaetz situation involves coordination among users and more importantly, a high-profile person generating media interest. It has little to do with the typical S. A. User, even if some of his "dates" cross state lines.

And that is true for sex work throughout the United States. The safest technique is S. A, or an independent escort who screens and works in a large city that is relatively sex-work friendly. The arrests in the USA Are almost entirely among the low-end scene where mass classified advertising exists, and little screening is performed. There are a few exceptions, as noted in the links. If you are dealing with a very small town, like in the Maine situation, state and local law enforcement may be dedicated to shutting down the Town Hooker. That is not going to happen in New York City. Agencies are more likely to run into legal trouble, especially if they serve high-profile people like politicians. There is media publicity to be had. Same with massage parlors. There is a lot of bang for the buck when they are watched and raided. And there are differences among cities to consider. Orlando, Phoenix (in fact all of Arizona) and Atlanta (to a lesser extent) are notoriously sex-work unfriendly. They love doing busts of anything visible and releasing customer names. But that simply doesn't happen for New York City, Las Vegas, LOS Angeles, San Francisco, etc.

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2592625]"Minor" - are we talking about the Gaetz case? You are right that I am forgetting the details; actually, I did not follow the case that much. But what struck me, if I remember it correctly, is that the Feds initially got into the case looking at sugarbabe sites? I vaguely remember somehow sugar daddy connection figuring in the case from the beginning. Perhaps I am wrong, or don't remember right as you said.

Trafficking charges can sometimes sound ominous but the reality may be more benign. I am no expert on this subject. But it is not as if Gaetz and his pal were pimps, or playing a role like Romie loverboys; if those girls had been provided transportation, crossed state lines, or passed onto a friend or associate, it may be called trafficking? Not sure, perhaps the experts would know here.

Anyway, anytime SA figures in any high profile case, it makes me jumpy.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2592625]Trafficking charges can sometimes sound ominous but the reality may be more benign. I am no expert on this subject. But it is not as if Gaetz and his pal were pimps, or playing a role like Romie loverboys; if those girls had been provided transportation, crossed state lines, or passed onto a friend or associate, it may be called trafficking? Not sure, perhaps the experts would know here.

Anyway, anytime SA figures in any high profile case, it makes me jumpy.[/QUOTE]It should make you jumpy. Human trafficking started out like the war on opioids and is typical in the way of a government buildup. First off, there are posters then article and them more articles than a supposed crisis point and then horribly restrictive legislation. It is the modern equivalent of the fake rape crisis.

Do you know how Steve and I think MW on here recommend serving drinks to women to get them to loosen up? Did you know that makes them rapists? Of course, the fact that no one here discouraged them makes us all rapist sympathizers. Yes, when a woman has alcohol, any amount, she cannot consent to having sex and that means if you are having sex with her, you are raping her. If the woman regrets having sex with you the next morning, that is rape too. This is where the infamous 1 in 4 women have been raped in college line comes from. The feminazis were telling women they may have been raped and not known they were raped.

One woman, who wanted to stop having sex midway through the act, asked her partner to stop, and he kept going. That was rape too, and it got to the point where pundits joked that you have to ask for consent with every thrust.

To me, this is disgusting. It allowed any time a woman had sex and regretted it the ability to claim victim status. This was not helping women be responsible but enabling them to be irresponsible. It also diminished sympathy for women who really were raped.

The other issue that bugged me is that college is scary enough and this was meant to scare people even more. However, it is not college but the supposedly safe home where I have seen the sexual issues that have scarred women the most. Sexual molestation in the home is off the charts, but no one wants to talk about that. Governments are always pushing home and family as heaven even when for so many they are hell.

[URL]https://www.dhs.gov/blue-campaign/what-human-trafficking[/URL]

Every year, millions of men, women, and children are trafficked worldwide – including right here in the United States. Traffickers might use violence, manipulation, or false promises of well-paying jobs or romantic relationships to lure victims into trafficking situations. Traffickers use force, fraud, or coercion to lure their victims and force them into labor or commercial sexual exploitation. The trauma caused by the traffickers can be so great that many may not identify themselves as victims or ask for help, even in highly public settings.

You see how it is the same bullshit all over again. You might be trafficked and not know it. Do you see how violence and "false" promises, whatever that means, are the same sin? Force and "coercion" are the same as well?

I always felt like the feminazi movement was spearheaded by lesbians who wanted to get the best looking women. In recent times, sugar daddies have been taking a run at the prime women, and they needed to be beaten back. So here you have it. The modern day sugar daddy looking for a mutually beneficial relationship is legally the same as a pimp who is running working girls that he beats to a pulp. Blech!

Guys did not believe me when I told them the government was coming after sugar daddies but they are. Hell, the cops and a the made total fools of themselves when they went after billionaire Robert Kraft. They faked a bomb scare to put in video equipment in an oriental spa. They showed Kraft getting a hand job, tipping well, and the woman who gave him the HJ, an Oriental woman, happy to see him and giving him a hug on his arrival. The the tried to say Kraft was supporting trafficking and when they went to the woman and tried to get her to testify, she told them fuck you. The racist bastards in the police department and d's office thought because she was Oriental she was being trafficked but she was an American citizen.

The politically sensitive NFL did nothing with Kraft, but even this high profile boner, has not ended the war on trafficking. To me, whenever the government declares a war on something, you get the hell out of its way. That is when the government is not looking for criminals but looking to take benign Americans and make them into criminals.

And once I saw this war being declared, I decided that I am not playing in the USA. The risks are too high.

[QUOTE=Mongerer88;2592925]Yes, there are two issues. One, as Akibino mentioned, is that one of the ladies was allegedly a minor at the time. This is the third or fourth high-profile case (one on the east coast and one in Canada) where a minor was presenting herself as being of legal age on S. A. As with the Backpage situation, that increases the relative likelihood that USA Federal law enforcement might take action against S. A. It hasn't happened yet, and may never happen. But it was the existence of minors on the site that was the eventual downfall of Backpage. Some say the difference in advertising will keep that from happening, but the current trove of data that Greenberg gave to the Feds is full of Price Per Meet (PPM) notations, so I am not sure that argument really prevails. The other issue is that Greenberg, Gaetz, and a couple of others (who sent WhatsApp messages saying to leave them the fuck out if this when the federal investigation began because they did not see the alleged minor) communicated about the different ladies and allegedly had the ladies cross state lines on trips. The existence of the alleged minor and the fact that the ladies crossed state lines (along with a coordinated effort) all theoretically make this a federal case. The risk to a typical user is whether the federal government takes action against S. A. If not, then there is little to worry about if everyone a person sees is 18 or older. I suppose having a lady cross state lines matters a little bit, but the Gaetz situation involves coordination among users and more importantly, a high-profile person generating media interest. It has little to do with the typical S. A. User, even if some of his "dates" cross state lines..[/QUOTE]Hi M88,

Wow, quite informative. Thank you. Sounds a bit scary because I have used SA in Atlanta and Phoenix, not as much in Orlando yet. What makes you single out those cities? I realize you have a ton of detailed knowledge on this subject, so your insights are quite valuable here. Thanks again.

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2593016]Hi M88,

Wow, quite informative. Thank you. Sounds a bit scary because I have used SA in Atlanta and Phoenix, not as much in Orlando yet. What makes you single out those cities? I realize you have a ton of detailed knowledge on this subject, so your insights are quite valuable here. Thanks again.[/QUOTE]Sorry, I didn't mean that S. A. Is a problem in those cities. Any issues with S. A. Will be federal, and there may never be any problems.

Phoenix did a customer name release in the Desert Divas case, and there have been plenty of attacks on agencies there. Back in the landline days, Orlando actually blocked the ability to dial known escort services from hotels. I realize now everyone has cell phones, but that county is still hostile to sex work. And Atlanta sneaks cameras outside of known multi-lady incalls.

You just learn which cities are most hostile over time. Of course even in those cities, they leave independent escorts who screen alone (although as a result of the hostility, the screening is more intense). But none of those cities have ever interfered with S. A.

[QUOTE=Mongerer88;2593046]Sorry, I didn't mean that S. A. Is a problem in those cities. Any issues with S. A. Will be federal, and there may never be any problems.

Phoenix did a customer name release in the Desert Divas case, and there have been plenty of attacks on agencies there. Back in the landline days, Orlando actually blocked the ability to dial known escort services from hotels. I realize now everyone has cell phones, but that county is still hostile to sex work. And Atlanta sneaks cameras outside of known multi-lady incalls.

You just learn which cities are most hostile over time. Of course even in those cities, they leave independent escorts who screen alone (although as a result of the hostility, the screening is more intense). But none of those cities have ever interfered with S. A.[/QUOTE]Got it, thanks. Still, this needs watching. I am not in the camp of Elvis yet, but he has his points. I have taken the view that if you fly under the radar, keep it bland, respectful and cut out all references to sex or ppm and not indulge in sex on the first date etc, you might be OK. And so far it has been, to your point. But you have a good point that regional differences exist, some local LE can be more zealous than in other places and one of the sugarbabes going loco and faking some sort of assault or other stuff to blackmail you, as ELvis is hinting at, is a real scary prospect. Don't know how to put the odds on it. I guess it is one of those things which is unlikely but suddenly one day your luck changes and you are hit with a charge?

[QUOTE=KingOfPoverty;2592834]
Over the next year, the plan is to make full week-long trips to other foreign cities and utilizing SA to hopefully get the same results I have enjoyed in Mexico. My goal is to get 3-4 short term GF's for the week who will provide the GFE in addition to touring me around their city, which I don't think pros in their respective locations are interested in doing. What are your opinions about the effectiveness of SA in the following cities: Lima Peru, Cartagena Colombia, Madrid Spain, San Jose Costa Rica?[/QUOTE]I have experience from Madrid, Spain. It was a couple of years ago. I had a one week stay and I had prepared meetings in advance. One meeting every evening, starting with a "job interview" in the bar.

If we clicked, we proceeded to the room. .

I must say, I got a quite good hit rate. The fourth day, I cancelled the girl and repeated with the first girl. .

The bar man at the hotel soon understood what was going on. He smiled and showed thumbs up whenever he saw me.

Later in the week, I found out about Pigmalion Bar and spent rest of the time hunting there. Recommended!

[QUOTE=KingOfPoverty;2592834]
Over the next year, the plan is to make full week-long trips to other foreign cities and utilizing SA to hopefully get the same results I have enjoyed in Mexico. My goal is to get 3-4 short term GF's for the week who will provide the GFE in addition to touring me around their city, which I don't think pros in their respective locations are interested in doing. What are your opinions about the effectiveness of SA in the following cities: Lima Peru, Cartagena Colombia, Madrid Spain, San Jose Costa Rica?[/QUOTE]I have had success with this in an Italian city. I did have a short list of SBs up until the final days before my arrival. I had extensive chats with the girls before arrivals which was good to weed out the professionals and the girls that weren't capable of holding conversation for an extended period. With your plan of extended time with the girl, you need to get along well. I arrived in the afternoon, got my hotel setup. The lady arrived after her office job and we had a light snack and a wine before giving her a chance to put her bag back at my room. Well that turned into round 1 as expected. Round 2 was after dinner. We spent the next two days doing the tourist spots, she supplied her car, usually one round of sex in the afternoon, dinner then and she would stay overnight of course. I was paying her meals and expenses as expected. She had a day at work and I toured myself until she joined me after her work again and we had a great farewell evening. I paid her the agreed amount for the four days.

Also just completed a similar arrangement here in Australia on a business trip.

You will need to have a shortlist of 3-4 girls for each of your available nights. SBs are very flaky until you have them in the hand.

I make this my standard MO when doing business travel to any location now.

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2593102]Got it, thanks. Still, this needs watching. I am not in the camp of Elvis yet, but he has his points. I have taken the view that if you fly under the radar, keep it bland, respectful and cut out all references to sex or ppm and not indulge in sex on the first date etc, you might be OK. And so far it has been, to your point. But you have a good point that regional differences exist, some local LE can be more zealous than in other places and one of the sugarbabes going loco and faking some sort of assault or other stuff to blackmail you, as ELvis is hinting at, is a real scary prospect. Don't know how to put the odds on it. I guess it is one of those things which is unlikely but suddenly one day your luck changes and you are hit with a charge?[/QUOTE]The good news is that the USA Federal government has an official policy of not charging ordinary Johns or prostitutes in a prostitution case. Unfortunately, they say that anyone engaging a minor is not an ordinary John (even if he didn't know her actual age), so the one thing to be concerned with is that everyone you see is over 18. If they go after Gaetz for the crossing state line thing, that would be a big deviation from that policy, but they might justify it on the grounds that he is a public figure and might have been using campaign funds. But if a prosecution of him occurs, I suspect it will focus on the minor. This has been a pretty public and known policy of the federal government for a long time. If there is a federal government action against S. A. , like there was with Backpage, it won't involve customers, just S. A. Itself. Most view even that as unlikely.

And it is equally unlikely that any state / local law enforcement agency will pursue regular customers / sex workers on S. A. It is simply out of the modus operandi they have developed and utilized for years in prostitution cases. And there is still so much activity at the lower end of the scene that they can make their financial and media quotas.

[QUOTE=Mongerer88;2593340]The good news is that the USA Federal government has an official policy of not charging ordinary Johns or prostitutes in a prostitution case. Unfortunately, they say that anyone engaging a minor is not an ordinary John (even if he didn't know her actual age), so the one thing to be concerned with is that everyone you see is over 18. If they go after Gaetz for the crossing state line thing, that would be a big deviation from that policy, but they might justify it on the grounds that he is a public figure and might have been using campaign funds. But if a prosecution of him occurs, I suspect it will focus on the minor. This has been a pretty public and known policy of the federal government for a long time. If there is a federal government action against S. A. , like there was with Backpage, it won't involve customers, just S. A. Itself. Most view even that as unlikely.

And it is equally unlikely that any state / local law enforcement agency will pursue regular customers / sex workers on S. A. It is simply out of the modus operandi they have developed and utilized for years in prostitution cases. And there is still so much activity at the lower end of the scene that they can make their financial and media quotas.[/QUOTE]I disagree with your post. If the feds can prove that SA is just a front for illegal prostitution and not straight escorting than they could in theory shut the site down. That is why the site is very strict on how you word things and why they added gifts to the site. We discussed that on another post. They close escort agencies for prostitution. They could do it to SA.

I can see a day where SA will have to ask for the ID of every girl that joins the site to cover their ass for underage girls lying. I think it would be a good thing to be honest. Protects everybody.

[QUOTE=TjBrazil;2593360]I disagree with your post. If the feds can prove that SA is just a front for illegal prostitution and not straight escorting than they could in theory shut the site down. That is why the site is very strict on how you word things and why they added gifts to the site. We discussed that on another post. They close escort agencies for prostitution. They could do it to SA.[/QUOTE]You missed the whole point of my post.

I agree with you entirely.

But Pessimist seemed to be asking about the effect on users of S. A.

When the federal government goes after a website or an escort agency, it doesn't involve the ordinary customers or workers.

You can look at countless examples including Miami Companions. The federal government has a long precedent on this. They go after owners and participants (those directly helping the owners run the enterprise) in the criminal organization. They don't release customer names. A notable exception exists for any ordinary user involved with someone underage.

It is a different story with state / local law enforcement. They often do go after the ordinary hookers and Johns, and some jurisdictions do release names out of sheer meanness.

That is the differentiation I was making and why I noted that S. A. Has characteristics that make a state / local "bust" unlikely.

It is the federal government that is the concern, and that doesn't involve the users.

[QUOTE=Mongerer88;2593340]The good news is that the USA Federal government has an official policy of not charging ordinary Johns or prostitutes in a prostitution case. [/QUOTE]Yes, you were right. That was the case in the past. That is not what they are doing now. LE is targeting men. Period. I think google got tipped off and that is why they got rid of the seeking app.

That the feds are going to carve up seeking IMO is just a matter of time. My guess is they are more likely to bleed it though than kill it off. This is about money and always has been. LE thinks that any money that is gathered illegally is theirs. They have been looking to take the money in prostitution for a long time and made up trafficking as an excuse to do it.

Yes, there is trafficking and white supremacists and people who download child porn but in all those cases, the government uses those issues to carve into our freedom. Using trafficking as an excuse to bleed or take down seeking IMO is a done deal.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2593451]Yes, you were right. That was the case in the past. That is not what they are doing now. LE is targeting men. Period. I think google got tipped off and that is why they got rid of the seeking app.

That the feds are going to carve up seeking IMO is just a matter of time. My guess is they are more likely to bleed it though than kill it off. This is about money and always has been. LE thinks that any money that is gathered illegally is theirs. They have been looking to take the money in prostitution for a long time and made up trafficking as an excuse to do it.

Yes, there is trafficking and white supremacists and people who download child porn but in all those cases, the government uses those issues to carve into our freedom. Using trafficking as an excuse to bleed or take down seeking IMO is a done deal.[/QUOTE]Yes, good point. Asset forfeiture is the biggest part of federal law enforcement in organized sex work stings. In addition to the lack of operating across state lines, independent escorts just don't have enough assets to seize. And another reason the federal government has its policy of not going after regular hookers and Johns. Hell, they don't really even care that much about the owners and operators once the government has its money. Many of the multi-state escort agencies have had the owners plea to deals with little or no jail time as long as they don't contest the asset forfeiture. The Backpage guys are still wanting to fight, but it appears the government is trying to get them to die of old age first.

[QUOTE=TjBrazil;2593366]I can see a day where SA will have to ask for the ID of every girl that joins the site to cover their ass for underage girls lying. I think it would be a good thing to be honest. Protects everybody.[/QUOTE]I can not believe they are not doing it now. This would eliminate half of the problems with fake profiles and scams immediately. I wish they would implement this yesterday.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2593451]Yes, you were right. That was the case in the past. That is not what they are doing now. LE is targeting men. Period. I think google got tipped off and that is why they got rid of the seeking app.
[/QUOTE]I just checked and seeking app is till available in the Google Playstore. I know that it hasn't been in the Apple appstore for a long time.

[QUOTE=BrizLad;2593532]I just checked and seeking app is till available in the Google Playstore. I know that it hasn't been in the Apple appstore for a long time.[/QUOTE]They are taking it off September 1: [URL]https://www.androidauthority.com/sugar-daddy-apps-2020846/[/URL].

How would the Feds shutdown SA completely if they chose? It seems like after the Feds took down backpage many sex websites were hassled (by their ISP? The sex sites including this one I believe simply domiciled their sites elsewhere.

Now the Feds could make subscription payments from the United States difficult, but they could never eliminate payments entirely. The worst case is they eliminate USA Sugar babies from the site.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2593508]I can not believe they are not doing it now. This would eliminate half of the problems with fake profiles and scams immediately. I wish they would implement this yesterday.[/QUOTE]That would also scare many legitimate sugarbabes away. Even if the site assures them that their identity will be kept confidential, they will worry about it. Remember, there is an stigma to the girls as well. How many times have members here and elsewhere equated sugarbabes with WG? Those girls know that.

[QUOTE=Mongerer88;2593475]Yes, good point. Asset forfeiture is the biggest part of federal law enforcement in organized sex work stings. In addition to the lack of operating across state lines, independent escorts just don't have enough assets to seize. And another reason the federal government has its policy of not going after regular hookers and Johns. Hell, they don't really even care that much about the owners and operators once the government has its money. Many of the multi-state escort agencies have had the owners plea to deals with little or no jail time as long as they don't contest the asset forfeiture. The Backpage guys are still wanting to fight, but it appears the government is trying to get them to die of old age first.[/QUOTE]What assets would SA have? Cash? It is just a site / app, there are no meaningful fixed assets. They can levy a huge fine but SA may fight it in courts if the cash they have to forfeit is big enough.

Also, SA is a private company. We don't know their finances. For all we know, they may have been drawing down cash regularly. Depends on how their company is set up and what what their needs are. The main costs for such a business are subscriber acquisition and some ongoing expenses related to product upgrades which can be funded from incoming cash flows. Apps like this can be quite high margin businesses and making tons of money, so the management does not need to keep a lot of cash in the company coffers for future investment. If the owners already took cash out, there is even less asset forfeiture possible. It would be tough to go after the personal assets of equity owners. Yes, if the main owner is also the main manager, feds can go after him using a criminal case perhaps but it is tough to go after the private assets of owners who are not involved operationally and invested in a passive capacity. And we don't even know if the investors are even in the US or are US citizens.

Shutting down would be a bit sad but what can we do! As long as they keep away from me, an individual male subscriber, I am reasonably happy.

[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2593715]How would the Feds shutdown SA completely if they chose? It seems like after the Feds took down backpage many sex websites were hassled (by their ISP? The sex sites including this one I believe simply domiciled their sites elsewhere.

Now the Feds could make subscription payments from the United States difficult, but they could never eliminate payments entirely. The worst case is they eliminate USA Sugar babies from the site.[/QUOTE]Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think that Seeking ever went offshore since it has a dot com suffix.

[URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.com[/URL]

So I would think its website and operations are under USA Jurisdiction. I am not saying they are doing anything wrong, just that like Backpage they have a site that can theoretically be seized and shut down by the USA.

You are correct that most sites went to Europe. But that can make receiving and processing payments more difficult.

[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2593715]How would the Feds shutdown SA completely if they chose? It seems like after the Feds took down backpage many sex websites were hassled (by their ISP? The sex sites including this one I believe simply domiciled their sites elsewhere.

Now the Feds could make subscription payments from the United States difficult, but they could never eliminate payments entirely. The worst case is they eliminate USA Sugar babies from the site.[/QUOTE]Yeah I suggest we all stop worrying about it and fuck some hotties. If someone is paranoid then get on your horse and collect as many contacts as possible. I for one am not worried. The US Puritans will not suppress sex. There was that huge deal with SESTA / FOSTA and the world was going to end. It did not. P411 is still rocking it out of Canada. T. E. R. went underground but appears back. We will prevail! And in the meantime ima just going to keep it rolling and finding and repeating with awesome girls wherever I go.

Anyone tried the other SB apps mentioned in the google article:

Such as (Seeking Arrangement,) Elite, or Spoil?

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2593759]That would also scare many legitimate sugarbabes away. Even if the site assures them that their identity will be kept confidential, they will worry about it. Remember, there is an stigma to the girls as well. How many times have members here and elsewhere equated sugarbabes with WG? Those girls know that.[/QUOTE]That would be fine by me. It would eliminate the ones that are not serious, but Steve is correct we should be bagging as many as possible. I am heading to MTY for a short weekend trip, just too much work at the moments.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2593804]Yeah I suggest we all stop worrying about it and fuck some hotties. If someone is paranoid then get on your horse and collect as many contacts as possible. I for one am not worried. The US Puritans will not suppress sex. There was that huge deal with SESTA / FOSTA and the world was going to end. It did not. P411 is still rocking it out of Canada. T. E. R. went underground but appears back. We will prevail! And in the meantime ima just going to keep it rolling and finding and repeating with awesome girls wherever I go.[/QUOTE]Nothing to worry about. Ashley Madison got hacked and the perps tried to blackmail some users, but the are still operating. The way these sites get killed is by the credit card processors refusing to work with them. I do not see that happening. Too much speculative postings. Get back to girl reports. This link is becoming like other links. Endless speculative arguments over nothing. Unless you have facts, scary speculation is just that. I do not think users have much to fear. Girls have much more to worry about than guys. False claims of rape is hard to prove. In most cases, a guy pressured a reluctant girl and failed to stop when requested. There never was any consent. What Steve does (dinner, dancing, clubs) helps keep you safe since the appearance is like a date and not an escort. Try not to mention ppm unless a girl brings it up. Like Steve said, tuition help sends the message. You got to have some savior fair to play the daddy game and some coin. It is not cheap.

[QUOTE=BrizLad;2593226]I have had success with this in an Italian city. I did have a short list of SBs up until the final days before my arrival. I had extensive chats with the girls before arrivals which was good to weed out the professionals and the girls that weren't capable of holding conversation for an extended period. With your plan of extended time with the girl, you need to get along well. I arrived in the afternoon, got my hotel setup. The lady arrived after her office job and we had a light snack and a wine before giving her a chance to put her bag back at my room. Well that turned into round 1 as expected. Round 2 was after dinner. We spent the next two days doing the tourist spots, she supplied her car, usually one round of sex in the afternoon, dinner then and she would stay overnight of course. I was paying her meals and expenses as expected. She had a day at work and I toured myself until she joined me after her work again and we had a great farewell evening. I paid her the agreed amount for the four days.

Also just completed a similar arrangement here in Australia on a business trip.

You will need to have a shortlist of 3-4 girls for each of your available nights. SBs are very flaky until you have them in the hand.

I make this my standard MO when doing business travel to any location now.[/QUOTE]

Nice, what was her agreed amount? Just to get an idea of what to expect in Italy.
In Portugal I had 300-450 and a 2 day for 500, with all expenses paid for of course.

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2593764]What assets would SA have? Cash? It is just a site / app, there are no meaningful fixed assets. They can levy a huge fine but SA may fight it in courts if the cash they have to forfeit is big enough.

Also, SA is a private company. We don't know their finances. For all we know, they may have been drawing down cash regularly. Depends on how their company is set up and what what their needs are. The main costs for such a business are subscriber acquisition and some ongoing expenses related to product upgrades which can be funded from incoming cash flows. Apps like this can be quite high margin businesses and making tons of money, so the management does not need to keep a lot of cash in the company coffers for future investment. If the owners already took cash out, there is even less asset forfeiture possible. It would be tough to go after the personal assets of equity owners. Yes, if the main owner is also the main manager, feds can go after him using a criminal case perhaps but it is tough to go after the private assets of owners who are not involved operationally and invested in a passive capacity. And we don't even know if the investors are even in the US or are US citizens.

Shutting down would be a bit sad but what can we do! As long as they keep away from me, an individual male subscriber, I am reasonably happy.[/QUOTE]The problem for the owners, and even some employees, is that asset forfeiture extends to some of their assets, including the cash that has been drawn down.

[URL]https://reason.com/2019/02/20/using-asset-forfeiture-to-quelch-speech/[/URL]

Earlier, I had mentioned in this forum that I have a couple of SB's lined up after lot of weeding. I met with one of this last week. Here is the FR. I really want to take a moment to all those veterans here. Your tips and tricks worked like a charm.

So, this one. Let's call her Miss and, and I have been chatting for a while. She separated from her BF a year ago and is just looking for spicing up things. So, after many email exchanges, we decide to meet at a restaurant of her choice. She chose a low key one (good sign. She was not trying to take advantage and book some fine dining place) and asks me to meet at a parking lot. We meet there, a quick hug and we walk to the restaurant. Just normal catch up while walking.

At the restaurant, she orders a simple wine but I insisted we take a bottle. Over the food, we chat about many things and I stay away from the crux of the matter. Eventually, after food during dessert, I stretch my hands to hold hers and she responded warm. I gradually work my way up to her elbow feeling her smooth skin. Positive response.

We finish at the restaurant, and start walking back. At that time, she said - "We go to the car, pick up the stuff (I got her a bottle of wine, and cake), you go to your home and I go to mine". I was just thinking "hmmm. OK, but I still might be able to turn this around".

While walking, at some point, I grabbed her back, turned her around, and planted my lips on hers. She responded with a good kiss. Encouraged, I hold her tighter, and let my tongue feel hers. Again, good response. But, she suddenly says "let's take a walk". OK.

We take a bit of a detour and come to some sort of a park and she start talking to me about her past, and what she is looking for. At some point, she herself leaned forward for a kiss and this time it was a lot more passionate (maybe, she liked me listening to her past). Gradually, I move my arms up to feel her breasts. After a while, I gently slid underneath her tops and could feel her nipples erect. Good sign.

But, then again, she wanted to walk back to the car, get the stuff and leave our own ways. I thought it is going to take another date to get her to bed. Once near the car, I offered to drop her off and she hesitantly agreed. While dropping off, we again got into this passionate kissing. This time it was even more passionate from her side and I was encouraged to quickly slip my hands under her skirt. I could feel the wetness over her panties. A bit of warming up and suddenly, I moved my fingers inside her panties. And started fingering her. Very, very good response. It went for a while and she hit a O right there in my car.

Took a few minutes for her to come back down to normal state and says "I want you inside me". I thought she is inviting me home and I was ready but she said "let's drive somewhere". We drive around for a while, find a secluded parking spot. I quickly change into shorts (I had my suitcase in the car prepared for any eventuality). Then, we both climb into the car. Some more foreplay and she quickly pulled my shorts down, took me all the way inside. A good ten minutes of passionate raw dogging in the car. I finished inside her (per her insistence).

It was a great adventure. First time in a car and first time finishing inside someone.

She told me that she has this IUD and that she cannot get pregnant. I hope this is good to believe.

All in all, no expectation from me. I thought I should leave her a gift but then decided not cause any unexpected inflation. Damages were. Dinner bill, wine / cake for her, my gas expenses. That is it.

Post that, we have been exchanging some steamy messages on how we would like to fuck each other the next time we meet. This will be in September. I look forward to it because my next meet, I will make sure it is not in a car but in a proper room with a sturdy bed. And I will fuck the nuts out of her.

Gents,

I am headed to Guadalajara next week and have been working SA for a couple weeks. I have lined up the most beautiful chicas. Ages from 18-26. All have agreed to just about anything I asked. Prices ranging from $125 to $150 (2500-3000 Mexican pesos).

I have worked pretty hard on getting this lined up. It takes a lot of work and patience, but the results are wonderful. For those thinking the $99 price tag for SA is too high, trust me when I say it is worth every penny in the quality of women you can find. Everyone I have found on SA has been beautiful university students. I have made many trips across the globe and SA is my number one go to.

Good job, man. Please continue posting and reporting.

[QUOTE=Gfefan;2594121]Earlier, I had mentioned in this forum that I have a couple of SB's lined up after lot of weeding. I met with one of this last week. Here is the FR. I really want to take a moment to all those veterans here. Your tips and tricks worked like a charm.

So, this one. Let's call her Miss and, and I have been chatting for a while. She separated from her BF a year ago and is just looking for spicing up things. So, after many email exchanges, we decide to meet at a restaurant of her choice. She chose a low key one (good sign. She was not trying to take advantage and book some fine dining place) and asks me to meet at a parking lot. We meet there, a quick hug and we walk to the restaurant. Just normal catch up while walking.

At the restaurant, she orders a simple wine but I insisted we take a bottle. Over the food, we chat about many things and I stay away from the crux of the matter. Eventually, after food during dessert, I stretch my hands to hold hers and she responded warm. I gradually work my way up to her elbow feeling her smooth skin. Positive response.

We finish at the restaurant, and start walking back. At that time, she said - "We go to the car, pick up the stuff (I got her a bottle of wine, and cake), you go to your home and I go to mine". I was just thinking "hmmm. OK, but I still might be able to turn this around".

While walking, at some point, I grabbed her back, turned her around, and planted my lips on hers. She responded with a good kiss. Encouraged, I hold her tighter, and let my tongue feel hers. Again, good response. But, she suddenly says "let's take a walk". OK.

We take a bit of a detour and come to some sort of a park and she start talking to me about her past, and what she is looking for. At some point, she herself leaned forward for a kiss and this time it was a lot more passionate (maybe, she liked me listening to her past). Gradually, I move my arms up to feel her breasts. After a while, I gently slid underneath her tops and could feel her nipples erect. Good sign.

But, then again, she wanted to walk back to the car, get the stuff and leave our own ways. I thought it is going to take another date to get her to bed. Once near the car, I offered to drop her off and she hesitantly agreed. While dropping off, we again got into this passionate kissing. This time it was even more passionate from her side and I was encouraged to quickly slip my hands under her skirt. I could feel the wetness over her panties. A bit of warming up and suddenly, I moved my fingers inside her panties. And started fingering her. Very, very good response. It went for a while and she hit a O right there in my car.

Took a few minutes for her to come back down to normal state and says "I want you inside me". I thought she is inviting me home and I was ready but she said "let's drive somewhere". We drive around for a while, find a secluded parking spot. I quickly change into shorts (I had my suitcase in the car prepared for any eventuality). Then, we both climb into the car. Some more foreplay and she quickly pulled my shorts down, took me all the way inside. A good ten minutes of passionate raw dogging in the car. I finished inside her (per her insistence).

It was a great adventure. First time in a car and first time finishing inside someone.

She told me that she has this IUD and that she cannot get pregnant. I hope this is good to believe.

All in all, no expectation from me. I thought I should leave her a gift but then decided not cause any unexpected inflation. Damages were. Dinner bill, wine / cake for her, my gas expenses. That is it.

Post that, we have been exchanging some steamy messages on how we would like to fuck each other the next time we meet. This will be in September. I look forward to it because my next meet, I will make sure it is not in a car but in a proper room with a sturdy bed. And I will fuck the nuts out of her.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2592969]
Do you know how Steve and I think MW on here recommend serving drinks to women to get them to loosen up? Did you know that makes them rapists? Of course, the fact that no one here discouraged them makes us all rapist sympathizers. Yes, when a woman has alcohol, any amount, she cannot consent to having sex and that means if you are having sex with her, you are raping her. If the woman regrets having sex with you the next morning, that is rape too. This is where the infamous 1 in 4 women have been raped in college line comes from. The feminazis were telling women they may have been raped and not known they were raped.
.[/QUOTE]Hi Elvis,

In the United States, if a girl voluntarily gets drunk with a guy, and then she voluntarily has sex with him, then this is rape? Do you have any documentation that this constitutes rape? I am not trying to pick a fight. I honestly want to know, for my future reference. My understanding is that a woman has to show some proof that she resisted. Please correct me if I am wrong about this.

Thanks.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2594347]Hi Elvis,

In the United States, if a girl voluntarily gets drunk with a guy, and then she voluntarily has sex with him, then this is rape? Do you have any documentation that this constitutes rape? I am not trying to pick a fight. I honestly want to know, for my future reference. My understanding is that a woman has to show some proof that she resisted. Please correct me if I am wrong about this.

Thanks.[/QUOTE]MW dude you have failed to catch Elvis's extraordinarily (too?) subtle sarcasm. This was tongue in cheek — tho hard to tell. But I know what he thinks about ultrafemism and me too in Pussy Prison. He was just joshing.

So, you guys may recall that I am paying rent for my SB. I can see her almost any time that I want. I never do PPM with her. In addition to rent, I have bought cosmetics and clothes for her at her request. So, this seemed like an ideal arrangement.

Here's an update.

This past Saturday was Chinese Valentine's Day. I had no idea. And naturally, my SB got pissed that I did not give her a present or even saw her that day. I said that I was busy. I guess my blowing it off provided a catalyst for her to blow off some built up resentment toward me. She started saying that we only meet for sex, and that I never take her out to a restaurant or to the movies. But I do not want to do these things with her. Maybe if I can drink with her, then I would, but my mongering has to be done during the day, and I do not day drink.

So, she left town and is in her hometown now. She said she will never come back and that she is looking for a new boyfriend in her hometown.

I am beginning to think PPM is better than a real arrangement. The latter just takes up a lot of time and energy.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2594352]So, you guys may recall that I am paying rent for my SB. I can see her almost any time that I want. I never do PPM with her. In addition to rent, I have bought cosmetics and clothes for her at her request. So, this seemed like an ideal arrangement.

Here's an update.

This past Saturday was Chinese Valentine's Day. I had no idea. And naturally, my SB got pissed that I did not give her a present or even saw her that day. I said that I was busy. I guess my blowing it off provided a catalyst for her to blow off some built up resentment toward me. She started saying that we only meet for sex, and that I never take her out to a restaurant or to the movies. But I do not want to do these things with her. Maybe if I can drink with her, then I would, but my mongering has to be done during the day, and I do not day drink.

So, she left town and is in her hometown now. She said she will never come back and that she is looking for a new boyfriend in her hometown.

I am beginning to think PPM is better than a real arrangement. The latter just takes up a lot of time and energy.[/QUOTE]Yep, PPM keeps them in check. I have tried monthly a few times. It never works. You would think it make the arrangement better, but it is usually the opposite.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2594352]So, you guys may recall that I am paying rent for my SB. I can see her almost any time that I want. I never do PPM with her. In addition to rent, I have bought cosmetics and clothes for her at her request. So, this seemed like an ideal arrangement.

Here's an update.

This past Saturday was Chinese Valentine's Day. I had no idea. And naturally, my SB got pissed that I did not give her a present or even saw her that day. I said that I was busy. I guess my blowing it off provided a catalyst for her to blow off some built up resentment toward me. She started saying that we only meet for sex, and that I never take her out to a restaurant or to the movies. But I do not want to do these things with her. Maybe if I can drink with her, then I would, but my mongering has to be done during the day, and I do not day drink.

So, she left town and is in her hometown now. She said she will never come back and that she is looking for a new boyfriend in her hometown.

I am beginning to think PPM is better than a real arrangement. The latter just takes up a lot of time and energy.[/QUOTE]Yeah the "totally non transactional" arrangement sounds good in theory but fails in practice. One party or the other tries to squeeze more value out and it eventually tanks. Easier to get a mismatch on what is arranged. You think you arranged sex and she thinks she arranged a boyfriend.

A lot of this stems from information asymmetry. You know the game and she does not. She's making bad assumptions never having played SB before. The girl I just saw was an amazing SB because she's done it before and knows she's supposed to be my awesome girlfriend and knows how to make her man happy (and I don't just mean sex). She also had a relationship she allowed to get beyond SB and more real and then it went to shit. Got to just keep it straight up. That's best.

Short story? Damn I've found a keeper. Damn near in love. She's every bit a 9. 5 (9 face 10 body) and barebacking me while professing her love for my cock. Damn. What a find.

So for my trip to a large American city I was planning on flying Mika. We'the agreed a plan and I'the bought a ticket (not too expensive). But as the date neared, Mika seemed a bit distant. She'the been in a car wreck and was taking some time off work (no lie. I saw the pics. Wow. And I have been in her car. This was legit.). So she was stressed about having to take another day off work. So I let her off the hook and cancelled. (Maybe we can use the ticket another time. Doesn't matter. Just the cost of doing business. LOL.).

Of course I have Michelle, local at my destination city, who is a nice girl and very pretty at only $300. But she's just not that fun. She has been cleared to drink (medically. At our first meet up she was stone cold sober and you could tell she was in her head) so I set her up for Saturday since she'the been wanting to see me. And then I surfed SA and came up with Kayla and locked her in as my fave for Friday. I figure I can repeat with whoever I prefer on Sunday. I set things up this way often but never with a girl I know like Michelle. So this was a first (don't recommend — see below).

Kayla is a real beauty but honestly looks like she could be a bit thicker and hiding some fucked teeth in her pics, because she never shows them. This could not be further from the truth — fucking iPhone wide angle lens! I most often find truly pretty girls look better in person and that was the case here. Her body is absolute perfection (I can't find anything I'the change. Not one thing. Does that make her a ten? Maybe.) and she has a gorgeous face with high cheekbones, full lips, and a beautiful smile.

I send an Uber and she arrives at our dinner date in a skin tight dress that shows off her amazing no-bra see cups and tight tummy. OMG. She's the real deal. We have some epic food and the conversation flows well. She'the been pretty flirty during chat and same here. It's clear pretty quickly that going to the hotel is on for sure.

So we have great food and two glasses of wine — she finished the first one in about 2 minutes flat. Think she was nervous. Heheheh. After dinner we stroll hand in hand down the boulevard to the hotel. A short walk. Strategically chosen of course. She's been an SB before and doesn't seem at all phased being "on display" with a much older man.

In the room it's straight to the kissing which is nice and open mouthed but not DFK to start. Pretty quickly she says she has a surprise for me and pulls some lingerie out of her purse and heads to the bathroom and returns in all her OMG-glory! Truly a ten body. She in fact didn't wear a bra the entire weekend — and her tits are big. Solid Cs for sure on a petite frame. But fuck do they sit up high and tight! No assistance needed!

So back to the kissing which is getting more passionate and ends up DFK the rest of the trip. After a bit she pushes me to sitting on the bed and and gets my pants down around my ankles for a great BBBJ. Really nice — thick lips — amazing in and out. She'll mix it up a bit later.

After enjoying that for a while I get naked and she she suggests a condom to start getting down. But I say I have a better idea and push her on her back for some DATY. I usually work my way down but for some reason I went face first into that sweet pussy and she is wet on arrival — turns out she loves sucking dick and it gets her instantly wet.

Easy clit to find and work plus some gspot fingering. So sloppy wet inside. I fucking love that. She has a great time, cooing and grinding, but doesn't quite get there. And after maybe 10 minutes we move to sex. She says "sorry about the condom babe but maybe when I know you better we can get rid of it". That sounds lovely — yes I hope so — but I don't expect it. I never push for it.

So I suit up and dive in. Maybe it's just a nice story but she professes to love how thick my dick is and the curve of it. And fuck she is tight tight. We end up fucking 5 or 6 times over the weekend and often it's a minute or two to get the whole thing in. Had this with Chloe but not many girls are this tight. She has the 10 body down to the last detail!

Damn we have a good fuck in a lot of positions and she finishes me by mouth. Me on my knees kneeling near her head, my fingers in her pussy — one of my faves. And as I CIM she lets some of my cum escape the corner of her mouth and run down her face. Super sexy.

OK. I am a happy man. But this is just the start of the night. Because we going to go out and get in some trouble. We start at a speakeasy where you have to know the exact location of this hidden door and the code. Great fun and great cocktails. She's getting pretty lit — she doesn't drink that often. (Pro tip: Find a speakeasy to take your girl to. Did this with Mika also. They have never been and really love it. The girls who are true SB look to their Daddies to introduce them to new experiences and this is a great one.).

At the speakeasy she confesses she's Bi and at some point we have the wild idea of going to a strip club. Its her idea really and she knows where to go! Wow we have an off the hook time there. Grab a table right up at the stage. She is the best looking girl in the place including all the dancers who are fit and pretty. She loves tipping them with my copious money and is not shy about feeling their ass or titties if she likes them. Oh and it's a full nude club. Pussy everywhere. It's pretty sexy.

After a ton of that we get back to the room maybe 1 AM or so and it's a wild ride from there. Of course some epic BBBJ but then I am on my back — hard dick pointing the ceiling — and next thing I know she mounts up RCG raw! Yep I guess she knows me better now because she's barebacking the hell out of me. LOL. AMAZING doing it raw with her — and no lube required even tho she is sooooo tight. She gets sopping wet sucking dick so it's all natural baby!.

After a few position changes and maybe some more BJ, eventually in mish I pull out and unload on her tummy. Damn that was awesome. Who the fuck fucks you, takes you to the strip club and fucks you again, bareback! I like this girl. She's hot chick dynamite.

Of course she sleeps over with lots of nice cuddling and spooning but eventually we zonk out and sleep like the dead. Next morning we part ways because I have Michelle later that day. But for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is Kayla is hot AF and fucking me bareback, it makes more sense for her to just stay the weekend.

So I cancel Michelle. This is where it's not good to have a girl you know as part of a multiple girl weekend. I know her and she's a quality person. And it's shitty to cancel same day when I know she's looking forward to our date. But she's a champ and very nice about it. I send her $100 because I feel bad. But I got over it pretty fast being locked up w my goddess for 3 days. LOL.

So back with Kayla we get her stuff and she moves in for the weekend. Only on Seeking baby. We have some nice lunch and we are just BFGFing it. Afternoon I have some stuff I have to do but I am back before dinner and we can then get in trouble later that night.

We do some shopping and I get to play IRL SD buying her some things. It's fun. And she's truly appreciative. One of the things I like best about her is she seems to have genuine fun and is genuinely thankful when I do something nice for her. Even after our third dinner she says "thank you for dinner baby". She's genuinely nice the way she treats you. She doesn't have that "you owe me" vibe at all. It feels very mutual.

Dinner is awesome and she wears another form fitting skin tight dress. After dinner it's on to round 1 of epic bareback sex. I've shown her the position where she's on her back at the edge of the bed and I'm fucking her standing up. This feels amazing to both of us and I don't get tired this way. So we go at it hard and heavy for a long time. We do regular cowgirl for the first time and wow those tits. Hands on massage — you bet. Can't recall but I think I CIM.

Going to be hard to replicate the speakeasy and strip club but we going to try. We go to another speakeasy but it's closed for a private party. But it's in a part of town that is loaded with young people and loud happening bars and clubs. Not really our vibe but we have a really strong drink at one of the clubs and that gets us headed the right direction.

So we find another club that is supposedly like a speakeasy vibe without being one. Damn we loved this place. You could tell from minute one that everyone was down for fun and having a blast. Dancing and grinding and just an amazing energy level.

You know how my glass is always half full and I go with the flow? Well here goes again. Most people are standing but there are little two person tables around the perimeter. When we go to sit at one we see it has a Reserved tag on it. But I say WTF let's sit here anyhow. Shortly a guy comes over and says "oh this is my table. But it's fine if you want to join us". Well damn that's nice of you and yup we will. A few minutes later he has the waitress bring more glasses and he's pouring us champagne from the bottle he's got! Glass half full baby. New friends everywhere!

We order some more drinks as well and it just gets better and better. We've agreed to not get wrecked like last night (she was hungover bad) so we stick to a four drink max and lots of water. It's cute how we are kinda on this mission together to get the perfect buzz without overdoing.

Kayla is dancing in her seat but she's a bit shy. When I go dance in front of her to lure her out, she busts out laughing! Only hurts for a second. She's just transparent, which I love, and I know I look like an idiot at my age but I love to dance and have no fucks to give. I am undeterred and after several more laughing fits she's up and dancing. And we dance nonstop for another couple hours! It was suuuuuch fun. Haven't danced like that since Thifany in 2018. Wow. And damn SHE had a blast. Feel good about that. I always want my girl smiling and laughing (and fucking of course). Just my DNA.

At some point there are ten girls up on the raised bar platform in the middle of the club. Not strippers. Just girls gone wild! At one point Kayla points out a particularly drunk girl with no panties hiking up her skirt while she dances -- nicely shaved pussy full on getting some fresh air! Wow. My kinda place.

Back to the room a bit earlier tonight but not much. Prob near 1 again. And more epic sex. I have serious whiskey dick (partly from having fucked four times in less than 24 hrs!) so we go on forever. All the positions. Lots of mish DFK. She honestly seems to love to fuck and not be faking it. She sometimes pulls my face down to hers to passionately make out. Love this. Lots of edge of the bed fucking — both doggie (her fave) and modified mish (my fave). But I can't pull a genie out of the bottle.

Eventually we start to crash and cuddle. Damn I want to cum but just can't. Clearly she's given it the old college try but been defeated. Finally I get up the nerve to tell her I know a sure way to finish. Thinking she'll prob shut me down and say go to sleep, I tell her that if she licks and sucks my balls while I jack off I will def cum.

What a trooper — she says "sure baby" and pulls back the sheets and down she goes. Some really nice BLS with those plump lips and thick tongue. A bit of harmonica. A few full on mouth pumps and then BLS while I jack and damn I shoot out a nice load. Then we crash like big dogs.

Day 3 of our little adventure has us looking for late breakfast but settling on some amazing beachside tacos for lunch instead. And a pretty lazy day by the pool and just hanging out.

Given our prior debauchery we plan an early dinner and evening. After dinner we enjoy a couple cocktails in some comfy chairs with an amazing view. And we head to the room around 9. Strangely I have been completely satisfied and am happy to have just one more round of sex and not even have morning sex (she's not a morning person).

So we get back to the room and enjoy some simply dreamy passionate and meaningful sex — the kind you need a bit of a relationship to have. I can go forever of course and she is taking advantage of that. She tells me several times "god I just love your dick" — driving me hard and deep and basically fucking me to death! When I feel I might come I pull out and change position and we build again.

Just as a reminder how much I love to kiss (and she says she does too but only guys who kiss well and I do. Aww maybe another white lie but I'll take it.) Anyhow, I am fucking her raw at the edge of the bed and I lean over and start DFKing while I fuck her slow and damn I have to pull out right away. Just kissing her sent me immediately to the edge, ready to cum! So I pull out and have to STOP KISSING or ima going to blast. No lie. If I keep kissing even tho I am not actively fucking I am going to shoot a load! But caught it just in time.

I remember the cowgirl was super awesome. Not usually my fave position except for the tits access. But she is having such a great time. She is just cowgirling like her life depends on it. Grabbing the headboard and just fucking me like there is no tomorrow. And I've got those big beautiful tits in hand making big soft circles and just adding to the experience for both of us.

At some point I have to pull out for a bit or I will cum inside her — almost never happens in cowgirl, but bareback and her fucking me non-stop for so long I finally get there. I let the feeling pass and back in I go. I know she is enjoying using me as her fuck toy as she just keeps on fucking on and on. She does ACG for a while — way longer than most girls — she's in shape but eventually tires.

Finally she rolls off and goes for BJ between my legs (my fave) and does a brilliant job of BLS and harmonica. I think she's expecting me to jack off like last night but I know I can finish in her mouth because she has me so worked up with the BLS. And I'the prefer that. So I ask her to put my dick in her mouth which she gladly does. And sure enough some lovely in and out and bam bam bam CIM.

Again the sleep of the dead. A nice breakfast but a flight to catch. What an amazing weekend. Tons of sex. Bareback. But so much more than that. The time on the town was absolutely legendary. Just one of those nights would have been a memory forever. But we killed it night after night.

Damn she's one of my ATFs for sure. Can't wait to see her again.

I read every word of it. You the man! I'm a little jealous of your Kayla, but I should not be selfish. I have been having fucking a lot lately.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2594352]
I am beginning to think PPM is better than a real arrangement. The latter just takes up a lot of time and energy.[/QUOTE]I have been leaning this way this year, actually since Jan 2020. Over time my girl lost the connection between what she is actually getting paid for. I have no shortage of friends, girls, work colleagues with whom I can socialise, laugh, chat and have a good time. What I need is a hosting SB.

PPM since then has been just fine, whether the girl wants to call it that or not is another topic. For some I might call it an allowance but it is still only being paid after the weekly fucking.

I had one old flame contact me last week, offering a Friday catch up (great) and asking if I could pay her early Tuesday. She had bills due. I have seen her multiple times, I like her, she gives good BBBJ and is a beauty. But I held true to my principles explained that I would see her Friday. That all went to my plan and she knows how to get money in future.

BL.

I wonder if you guys get this too. I only get to get with a great SB every 6-8 weeks (might get some at home with a less satisfactory one and it's stressful because it's local). But what I found after Kayla (and experienced before) is that time with her completely reset my world view. I was no longer stressed out and grumpy — I felt absolutely at peace and right with the world. Total reset.

I am not sure how much of that is the sex, how much the girlfriend, and how much just letting loose. But damn, work and home life stress is all kinda meh right now — no big deal. Not sure how long the post-Kayla euphoria lasts but ima going to ride it while I can. Anyone else get this?

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2594347]Hi Elvis,

In the United States, if a girl voluntarily gets drunk with a guy, and then she voluntarily has sex with him, then this is rape? Do you have any documentation that this constitutes rape? I am not trying to pick a fight. I honestly want to know, for my future reference. My understanding is that a woman has to show some proof that she resisted. Please correct me if I am wrong about this.

Thanks.[/QUOTE]MW,

I wish I could be more clear on this. The first of the college rape trends was in Ms. Magazine in 1986. They came up with a survey showing that one in four women has been raped number not pointing out that 73 percent of the "raped" women did not consider themselves raped and that 42 percent of women repeated with their "attacker". This was where the notion if you have any drinks you cannot consent and are raped.

This notion has been watered down in recent years as people have figured out what bullshit that number was. Look at this stat: In 2012, Detroit's combined rate for all four violent felonies that make up the FBI's violent-crime index — murder, rape, robbery, and aggravated assault — was 2 percent. The rape rate was 0.05 percent. And yet, despite an alleged campus sexual-assault rate that is 400 times greater than Detroit's, female applicants are beating down the doors of selective colleges in record numbers.

Thing is with a case like Duke lacrosse you had a prosecutor pushing an agenda that had been lied about for years. So now most states have backed away from the notion that any drinking means she cannot consent and have come up with the notion that drinking by itself does not mean rape but signs of impairment does.

See the link: [URL]http://blog.simplejustice.us/2014/02/12/the-crime-of-regret/[/URL]#more-19995.

If you asks what impaired means, you are not alone. Adding even more fuel to the fire is the fact that when drinking is involved both men and the women are drinking. Yes, it is the theater of the absurd.

The thing the feminists have been pushing seems to have been found out. As is shown, the knife wielding rapist scenario is very rare. Two people get drunk, and the women agrees to sex or does not say no to sex but is really wasted and regrets it in the morning is by far the most common type of college "rape".

The law is gray and given we have some whack job feminists saying any sex is rape, [URL]https://witchwind.wordpress.com/2013/12/15/piv-is-always-rape-ok/[/URL].

People have taken a much harder line on things. In the end, it is what a jury decides and if enough of them are skeptical of rape, and I think they are now, DAs are not going to prosecute rape cases.

But still remember the larger point. If not for the ridiculous fanning of the rape flames, the Duke lacrosse case never happens.

My warning is not about rape. What I am trying to say is that the government is pushing trafficking, another rare occurrence, like it is happening all the time and citing bullshit inflated stats to justify their doing so. Like rape does happen, trafficking does too, but it is rare and the point is not to save women but to fleece men financially.

What government is doing is saying that paying women for sex is encouraging trafficking and therefore is one in the same. They are trying to make a victimless crime into one where there are victims.

I get what you want, clarity on what is breaking the law and what is not. Sadly, it does not work that way. Some DAs are so unethical that if you step on an ant and the the thinks that will advance your career, he would charge you with murder. DAs have absolute immunity, and I hate that, and they can charge you with whatever the fuck they want to, and there is nothing you can do except pay for a lawyer and beat them in trial. In that case, even if you win you lose.

And DAs are at high alert right now with charging men with sex related crimes. It was not like this 5 years ago but now men are being arrested in the hundreds of thousands for doing the same thing they did five years ago and no one cared.

I think it will die down, but it is crazy right now here in the sex prison. That is all I am saying.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2594553]I wonder if you guys get this too. I only get to get with a great SB every 6-8 weeks (might get some at home with a less satisfactory one and it's stressful because it's local). But what I found after Kayla (and experienced before) is that time with her completely reset my world view. I was no longer stressed out and grumpy I felt absolutely at peace and right with the world. Total reset.

I am not sure how much of that is the sex, how much the girlfriend, and how much just letting loose. But damn, work and home life stress is all kinda meh right now no big deal. Not sure how long the post-Kayla euphoria lasts but ima going to ride it while I can. Anyone else get this?[/QUOTE]SB + long distance from home life = extreme happiness.

While I can enjoy 'time' with a SB in my home town, it's just so much better when you can walk around and do things together.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2594553]I wonder if you guys get this too. I only get to get with a great SB every 6-8 weeks (might get some at home with a less satisfactory one and it's stressful because it's local). But what I found after Kayla (and experienced before) is that time with her completely reset my world view. I was no longer stressed out and grumpy I felt absolutely at peace and right with the world. Total reset.

I am not sure how much of that is the sex, how much the girlfriend, and how much just letting loose. But damn, work and home life stress is all kinda meh right now no big deal. Not sure how long the post-Kayla euphoria lasts but ima going to ride it while I can. Anyone else get this?[/QUOTE]Your brain is flush with serotonin and oxytocin. These make you feel good. The best drugs, but they wear off. They also block some of the fear and insecure emotions. Girls that seem genuine do that. In some ways, that is why divorce hurts so much. That was an epic field report. A trifecta of sex. I too love sex and kissing. The longer the better. It is less about the orgasm than feeling satisfied. Unless a girl is really into the sex, if you try to prolong the session, you risk not getting an orgasm or be satisfied before she calls it quits. But a woman that finds it enjoyable and feels secure can fuck for a very long time and many times. I find these girls rare gems. The smart ones can manipulate you because you feel so good. But it is like being close to the fire. You might get burned, but it feels so good. Looking for that SB the can make me blow my load and make me hard again for the extended session.

Might see a new influx of girls with Onlyfans restrictions going up in October.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2594788]MW,

I wish I could be more clear on this. The first of the college rape trends was in Ms. Magazine in 1986. They came up with a survey showing that one in four women has been raped number not pointing out that 73 percent of the "raped" women did not consider themselves raped and that 42 percent of women repeated with their "attacker". This was where the notion if you have any drinks you cannot consent and are raped.

This notion has been watered down in recent years as people have figured out what bullshit that number was. Look at this stat: In 2012, Detroit's combined rate for all four violent felonies that make up the FBI's violent-crime index murder, rape, robbery, and aggravated assault was 2 percent. The rape rate was 0.05 percent. And yet, despite an alleged campus sexual-assault rate that is 400 times greater than Detroit's, female applicants are beating down the doors of selective colleges in record numbers.

Thing is with a case like Duke lacrosse you had a prosecutor pushing an agenda that had been lied about for years. So now most states have backed away from the notion that any drinking means she cannot consent and have come up with the notion that drinking by itself does not mean rape but signs of impairment does..[/QUOTE]I hope members don't find the social commentary impertinent. I find it fascinating.

In my USA College days, it seems like we had two different kinds of sexually active girls. There were the young, monogamous girls who would convince themselves that they were in a serious relationship with the "one". Even if they dated a couple guys that were "the one", they were monogamous from "one" to another "one" and would try to be married by their mid-20's. These are probably the women who know their numbers and foolishly hope to keep that number to one hand and at most two hands.

Then there were the American girls who liked to party and have multiple partners. These are the girls who are described in Elvis 2008's post. They would go to a college party, drink to loosen up their inhibitions and wander off with a guy back to his room. If you asked them about it the next day, they would likely feign regret. If challenged, they could say they were taken advantage by the young man.

Then these young women would go out and do the same thing again in a short time. These are also the college women you wanted to run into traveling through Europe or wherever. With a great degree of anonymity secured by being abroad and traveling with a few like-minded female friends, these were the American college girls you wanted to meet on a trip.

Since I never wanted to be the "one" in my early twenties even if it was really just a bit of a charade, I obviously enjoyed to party with the latter described women. Many college guys tried to know who these girls were as opposed to the monogamous, serious relationship types.

Elvis 2008, I believe on the big campuses the feminazis and the right wing Christian students have joined up on some issues pertaining to sex and alcohol.

Because voluntary alcohol consumption – even to the point of severe impairment – does not meet New York's standard for mental incapacity, Manhattan the Cy Vance had said prosecutors in his office have declined taking some cases where alleged rape victims were drunk. . . "When the issue was first brought to our attention by NBC, the governor and myself said this was an issue we were going to solve," Cuomo spokesman Rich Azzopardi said.

In other news, Governor Cuomo is resigning due to multiple sexual harassment claims brought by New York women against him. . . Wonder if they were drunk when he did that?

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2594788]MW,

I wish I could be more clear on this. The first of the college rape trends was in Ms. Magazine in 1986. They came up with a survey showing that one in four women has been raped number not pointing out that 73 percent of the "raped" women did not consider themselves raped and that 42 percent of women repeated with their "attacker". This was where the notion if you have any drinks you cannot consent and are raped.

This notion has been watered down in recent years as people have figured out what bullshit that number was. Look at this stat: In 2012, Detroit's combined rate for all four violent felonies that make up the FBI's violent-crime index murder, rape, robbery, and aggravated assault was 2 percent. The rape rate was 0.05 percent. And yet, despite an alleged campus sexual-assault rate that is 400 times greater than Detroit's, female applicants are beating down the doors of selective colleges in record numbers.

Thing is with a case like Duke lacrosse you had a prosecutor pushing an agenda that had been lied about for years. So now most states have backed away from the notion that any drinking means she cannot consent and have come up with the notion that drinking by itself does not mean rape but signs of impairment does..[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Akibono;2594852]Your brain is flush with serotonin and oxytocin. These make you feel good. The best drugs, but they wear off. They also block some of the fear and insecure emotions. Girls that seem genuine do that. In some ways, that is why divorce hurts so much. That was an epic field report. A trifecta of sex. I too love sex and kissing. The longer the better. It is less about the orgasm than feeling satisfied. Unless a girl is really into the sex, if you try to prolong the session, you risk not getting an orgasm or be satisfied before she calls it quits. But a woman that finds it enjoyable and feels secure can fuck for a very long time and many times. I find these girls rare gems. The smart ones can manipulate you because you feel so good. But it is like being close to the fire. You might get burned, but it feels so good. Looking for that SB the can make me blow my load and make me hard again for the extended session.[/QUOTE]Yeah you can tell when a girl truly likes to fuck because she never gets tired of it. Even when you are King Whiskey Dick. Girls who are great SBs but don't like to fuck as much might say "how can I make you cum baby" and that feels nice like they want to make you happy. But it's kinda code for "I'm tired of fucking". LOL.

Kayla never tired. She was just on it for forever. It was awesome. And it reminded me of Krystal another ATF who after we had fucked forever and I was apologizing "sorry babe sometimes I take a really long time" and she says "That's OK baby. U can fuck me all night if you want!" That's my kinda girl!

Now that I think about it Kayla and Krystal are the only two SBs I've had that had lingerie in their purse and got into it right away. They were DTF before the waiter poured the first glass of wine at dinner!

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2595061]Yeah you can tell when a girl truly likes to fuck because she never gets tired of it. Even when you are King Whiskey Dick. Girls who are great SBs but don't like to fuck as much might say "how can I make you cum baby" and that feels nice like they want to make you happy. But it's kinda code for "I'm tired of fucking". LOL.

Kayla never tired. She was just on it for forever. It was awesome. And it reminded me of Krystal another ATF who after we had fucked forever and I was apologizing "sorry babe sometimes I take a really long time" and she says "That's OK baby. U can fuck me all night if you want!" That's my kinda girl!

Now that I think about it Kayla and Krystal are the only two SBs I've had that had lingerie in their purse and got into it right away. They were DTF before the waiter poured the first glass of wine at dinner![/QUOTE]Another thing that is awesome with a few girls is the way they modulate the depth and speed of the strokes. I always try to leave some space so the girl can position herself the way she likes. Sometimes a particular angle hits a nice spot. Some girls like a particular variation in position, but a few will close up the legs to indicate they want it gentler and then spread them and pull you forward when they want it fast and hard. No words are spoken, but both parties know how to optimize the situation. I really love the Sagami condoms. They don't fit everyone, but they are so thin and transfer heat so well, most of the time I can't tell the difference. But where they really shine is penetrating someone tight. They are so smooth you can slide in with ultimate control. I remember a girl that really got tight and sensitive when she orgasmed. It was really fun feeling her clench tight, gasp, and make faces while I slowly continued to pump her and she could not control it. Intense for both of us.

Yeah, my favorite is sticking it in, and then doing DFK for several hours. I can do this for a few hours especially if I am drunk and I am with strange. I sometimes do not even cum and I do not care. I can masturbate and cum whenever I want, but I cannot put my dick inside a new hottie and DFK her whenever I want, and so when I finally get it, I try to make it last for several hours. I bet it's good cardio too.

After an embargo, I am getting back a flurry of responses. Like Steve says feast or famine. It changes so quickly.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2593547]They are taking it off September 1: [URL]https://www.androidauthority.com/sugar-daddy-apps-2020846/[/URL].[/QUOTE]Just got back from Medellin after reading 100's of pages on the Colombia forum which helped tremendously. Got to admit after 5 days I was kinda over slinging around prepagos 3 times a day LOL. The last day I was there I met some chick (semi pro?) who hung out all day and we had a blast which led me to stalking your threads about "seeking". Definitely think I like this route / experience better. But I just joined to set some things up for a possible October trip and its ridiculous. I'm getting like 15 messages every day for the last 3 days LOL. It's a lot of work weeding through tons of hot chicks LOL. But definitely think I already got a couple nailed down for the next trip that seem cool. 8/9/10's half of which seem to not even want money but just want to be wined and dined. So far this seems to be a good investment.

Hey,

I'm new to this but what I don't get is there some secret way to filter profiles? There are just so many options with often unclear photos that could go either way. Or do you really just have to gamble?

[QUOTE=TheBMan;2595764]Just got back from Medellin after reading 100's of pages on the Colombia forum which helped tremendously. Got to admit after 5 days I was kinda over slinging around prepagos 3 times a day LOL. The last day I was there I met some chick (semi pro?) who hung out all day and we had a blast which led me to stalking your threads about "seeking". Definitely think I like this route / experience better. But I just joined to set some things up for a possible October trip and its ridiculous. I'm getting like 15 messages every day for the last 3 days LOL. It's a lot of work weeding through tons of hot chicks LOL. But definitely think I already got a couple nailed down for the next trip that seem cool. 8/9/10's half of which seem to not even want money but just want to be wined and dined. So far this seems to be a good investment.[/QUOTE]I am glad though but do not get too distracted. I eventually had 130 phone numbers from women all over the country. I was really excited about a few. I did two repeats in Bogota and they were both great. The contacts I was most looking forward to seeing there all went dark. I hooked up with one new one and she was awful. One of the girls I repeated with is my now GF so that made Bogota a success.

Medellin was better. I eventually met two of the dozens I had rated in my top group. In Cali, I met two of the ten I had highly rated as well.

Thing is I spent days getting my list of chicks rated and organized, and it was a waste of time. I wish I would have waited until a week before my trip and then started getting numbers. I was just so excited, and it was fun talking to the women and imagining how many women I was going to bang.

Had a really nice reunion with my latest local girl (post Layla). She's been having a really rough go of it if late and really wanted to see me (me or my money? A bit of both I am sure.) Had some drinks and an app and hit the room.

She's just such a cute goofball (22) so even tho she's fat (yep I can do that if need be so long as I have vitaminV) she's kind a great fun to be with. She's sexy and goofy all in one. Had some great sex including clear invitation to bareback (which I declined as I am barebacking Kayla). But maybe the best part is she just truly seems to like and need me (kinda dad frame).

Couple highlight comments from her:

Did you see my face when I first saw you? Damn I really missed you.

I love that you can fuck for so long.

Just a ball of fun to be with. Nice to have that kind of connection. And def unique to SA.

So I think Kayla is very likely the prettiest (hopefully) long term SB I've had. I know she's had at least one high end SD in the past (yacht outings Etc) but she's thankfully fairly low maintenance. Nonetheless I am conscious that a girl like that gets hit on constantly and a "better" SB could sweep her away. Especially with me being long distance and fly in. So making hay while the sun shines.

I am very confident in my charm, charisma and text game but there's def guys with more money than me even though I am prob considered rich by many. So like today she said she was going to the mall. So I sent her $100 (which is nothing in the scheme of things) and she was super excited and thankful. Hopefully I earned some brownie points and she bought a sexy outfit that she’s gonna wear when I am there next — so win win. Was glad I did that.

She said the checkout clerk at Macy's asked her out on a date. Yes. She's THAT girl. LOL.

Any of you have experience in the long distance game with the hottest girl around? Any other thoughts or tips on keeping her engaged for maximum duration?

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2596347]
Any of you have experience in the long distance game with the hottest girl around? Any other thoughts or tips on keeping her engaged for maximum duration?[/QUOTE]I have had some long distance arrangement, have one at the moment. I just accept that I am just one SD on her roster.

And my harsh observation is that you were being played for the $100 visit to the mall. Girls drop these hints all the time, "It's my birthday next week", "Tomorrow, I have a party, nothing to wear" , "I'll see my dad but cannot afford to buy him a gift" etc etc That being said I recently sent my LD SB a birthday gift but only as I was expecting to see her the following week. Which travel then got cancelled.

IMO you cannot stop the momentum of all those hits. She's the one that has to choose to stop it. She told you about the shop clerk...did she tell you about the doorman, the cafe guy, the handsome guy on the subway, the co-worker all of us that would also be hitting on THAT girl. She's telling you the story you want and you are hearing the narrative you want.

Ask yourself this. Without money in the game would she be seen with you, is she the same quality of girl your game lands for free?

[QUOTE=BrizLad;2596402]I have had some long distance arrangement, have one at the moment. I just accept that I am just one SD on her roster.

And my harsh observation is that you were being played for the $100 visit to the mall. Girls drop these hints all the time, "It's my birthday next week", "Tomorrow, I have a party, nothing to wear" , "I'll see my dad but cannot afford to buy him a gift" etc etc That being said I recently sent my LD SB a birthday gift but only as I was expecting to see her the following week. Which travel then got cancelled.

IMO you cannot stop the momentum of all those hits. She's the one that has to choose to stop it. She told you about the shop clerk...did she tell you about the doorman, the cafe guy, the handsome guy on the subway, the co-worker all of us that would also be hitting on THAT girl. She's telling you the story you want and you are hearing the narrative you want.

Ask yourself this. Without money in the game would she be seen with you, is she the same quality of girl your game lands for free?[/QUOTE]Yeah I'm not exactly new to this. I get that she's going to see people when I'm not there. I would want that for her. What I don't want is for her to get locked up with a big time exclusive SD that takes her off the market. But that's prob unavoidable at some point, because she's had that in the past. Like Melty at Diva in London. She was just soooo great (pro not SB) but then bam her Instagram blows up the next year with yachts and Maseratis and she's shacking up with some old SD dude. Happy for her. But prefer that Kayla not go off the market that way. A vain hope I suppose.

I got that the mall trip was a subtle money ask. I usually ignore those. But she's low maintenance and I sometimes like doing extras for girls I like just because I can. I have I guess about 6 or 7 girls I send birthday money to. I won't miss it. And they can use it. Maybe they buy their boyfriends dinner with it. Doesn't bother me. I still like brightening their day once a year.

And of course I know they only date me with money on the table. That is a given at my age. But yeah I think several actually like me and now the haters will chime in and say no, it's only your money. But what 9 is going to spend 14 hrs on a plane and in airports and 72 hrs with someone they don't like for $1000 that they could make at home by snapping their fingers. (Alexa, Mika) And what 9. 5 is going to fuck you bareback and have non-stop sex w you for two hours when she will make the exact same amount with a condom and a whole lot less fucking and BJ. I'm going to believe the money is incentive but not the whole story and all the “realists” will never convince me otherwise.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2596449]Yeah I'm not exactly new to this. I get that she's going to see people when I'm not there. I would want that for her. What I don't want is for her to get locked up with a big time exclusive SD that takes her off the market. But that's prob unavoidable at some point, because she's had that in the past. Like Melty at Diva in London. She was just soooo great (pro not SB) but then bam her Instagram blows up the next year with yachts and Maseratis and she's shacking up with some old SD dude. Happy for her. But prefer that Kayla not go off the market that way. A vain hope I suppose.

I got that the mall trip was a subtle money ask. I usually ignore those. But she's low maintenance and I sometimes like doing extras for girls I like just because I can. I have I guess about 6 or 7 girls I send birthday money to. I won't miss it. And they can use it. Maybe they buy their boyfriends dinner with it. Doesn't bother me. I still like brightening their day once a year.

And of course I know they only date me with money on the table. That is a given at my age. But yeah I think several actually like me and now the haters will chime in and say no, it's only your money. But what 9 is going to spend 14 hrs on a plane and in airports and 72 hrs with someone they don't like for $1000 that they could make at home by snapping their fingers. (Alexa, Mika) And what 9. 5 is going to fuck you bareback and have non-stop sex w you for two hours when she will make the exact same amount with a condom and a whole lot less fucking and BJ. I'm going to believe the money is incentive but not the whole story and all the realists will never convince me otherwise.[/QUOTE]Sorry this came off as super defensive. I know you were just trying to help. Thanks for contributing to the forum.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2596347]I am very confident in my charm, charisma and text game but there's def guys with more money than me even though I am prob considered rich by many.

Any of you have experience in the long distance game with the hottest girl around? Any other thoughts or tips on keeping her engaged for maximum duration?[/QUOTE]I think you are focusing on the wrong things Steve. A girl does not fuck you like that for just money. She did it because she likes you.

The way to keep her engaged is fun texts and telling her you are thinking of her in a non-stalkerish way and visit her as much as humanly possible. Every day my gal and I text each other. We went 4 weeks without seeing and each other, and she damned near ripped my clothes off because it was so long. It is going on close to two weeks now and I am telling her to get ready to get pounded. I miss her like crazy and part of it is the sex but not all of it. So make it a priority to see her as much as you can and text her as much as you can but with pleasant, joking, upbeat things. You want your texts to make her smile and to make her miss you and long for the day she sees you again.

You should see my gal when she sees me: a full fledged sprint and jumping into my arms with the brightest smile you have ever seen.

In the beginning, be the entertainer and plan fun things. After a few dates, see what it is like if you just stay in and watch Netflix or something like that. If you can do something that low key and have fun, she is the rarest breed of them all, a low maintenance stunner.

I would also commit just to her if she is up for it maybe not now but soon and do commit to her. You sound like you had the kind of encounter I have all the time. The reason I do not see any other women is they would be a disappointment compared to my gal. Is that not true with yours?

Monogamy for you is a crazy compliment. Let her bring up the financial agreement then if you bring up committing to her. If she does not ask for money, then I would just help her out a little and when she asks. Women do not want to feel like or be treated like working girls especially by guys they like.

I gave my gal $100 once and she asked, "What is that for?" almost offended that I gave it to her. I said, "It is because I care about you and I want you to have money in case of an emergency. " Save your money for spending it on fun activities. I don't like the mall stuff.

All hot chicks I know have apartments cluttered with useless shit and tons of clothes. My gal asks for nothing because she knows that stuff quickly becomes clutter.

Take that notion that she can find richer guys out of your head. She wants you! So give yourself to her and only her. Sure, it will probably wind down in a year or two but enjoy the ride.

Every time I am in a car with my gal for a period of time, she is reaching for my cock. When we rent a car, half the trip she will be blowing me. When we went to the pool and jacuzzi last trip, I knew my gal would fuck me there and she did in the jacuzzi.

Usually the sex with a gal peaks after the second or third visit, with my gal, it has gotten better and better and we are on like five or six months now. She has finally let go of thinking I am going to cheat on her. You might have one of those unicorn types too, but you got to believe you have one and give up the quest of finding better. Chances are the best sex you will have will be the next one and the next one with this gal.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2596449]Yeah I'm not exactly new to this. I get that she's going to see people when I'm not there. I would want that for her. What I don't want is for her to get locked up with a big time exclusive SD that takes her off the market. But that's prob unavoidable at some point, because she's had that in the past. Like Melty at Diva in London. She was just soooo great (pro not SB) but then bam her Instagram blows up the next year with yachts and Maseratis and she's shacking up with some old SD dude. Happy for her. But prefer that Kayla not go off the market that way. A vain hope I suppose.

I got that the mall trip was a subtle money ask. I usually ignore those. But she's low maintenance and I sometimes like doing extras for girls I like just because I can. I have I guess about 6 or 7 girls I send birthday money to. I won't miss it. And they can use it. Maybe they buy their boyfriends dinner with it. Doesn't bother me. I still like brightening their day once a year.

And of course I know they only date me with money on the table. That is a given at my age. But yeah I think several actually like me and now the haters will chime in and say no, it's only your money. But what 9 is going to spend 14 hrs on a plane and in airports and 72 hrs with someone they don't like for $1000 that they could make at home by snapping their fingers. (Alexa, Mika) And what 9. 5 is going to fuck you bareback and have non-stop sex w you for two hours when she will make the exact same amount with a condom and a whole lot less fucking and BJ. I'm going to believe the money is incentive but not the whole story and all the realists will never convince me otherwise.[/QUOTE]We never own them and would never want to. They eventually get old and we get tired of them. You can marry them, and still, if they are bored, they will cheat on you or find someone else. I suppose it is about new and excitement. Because the gifts come so quick and easily, these girls do not appreciate them and think it will last forever. Eventually, they realize they lose their looks and are replaced by other newer hotter girls. I find there is at most a 5 year window where women peak. That does not mean they are not still attractive and you do not want to fuck them, but they are missing just some intangible quality. Enjoy them while it lasts. I always get back to what is rare for them. These girls get plenty of attention, but not so much respect. They hear a thousand lies. Confident and respect go far. So does a few gifts. I think your best path is not to compete with those who have money to burn. These guys may impress the girls, by the girls also know these guys play the field. The get jealous of the competition. Plus, plenty of rich guys are also aholes because they can buy who they want. Never let the girls see you are bothered by the competition.

Recently, I got a slew of messages from SA girls. I am not sure how they got my numbers since I do not give it out freely. They are all professionals. While the costs are cheap, I am not interested in a professional escort. It is both risky and the pics are probably made up like everything else. I suspect there are many girls on the site merely trolling for prospects. They collect numbers and contact until they are kicked off the site. Then they use these numbers to attract clients. They may also share them among themselves. I find it too coincidental that these contacts just seemed to pop out of the blue. Anyone else have a similar experience?

If you are not super fat, not super old, and / or not super ugly, then SBs and even pros will fuck you happily for more than your money.

I am not super fat, I am not super old, and I am not super ugly, and so many WGs and SBs like both me and my money, not just my money.

Yes, there might be some gals that only like me for my money, but usually I will not see them again, especially an SB.

Will any of these gals see me without money? I admit, probably not. Do many of them like me for more than just the money? Probably yes.

It's obviously a money game. It's intrinsic to the sugar lifestyle and the "arrangement". However, there is a human component as well, where the girl might actually like you.

Midwestern made a damn good point. If you are not "too" anything, then her getting paid is a bonus. Even some pros have a hard time faking when the customer is too fat / bald / ugly / generally disgusting because they are women with their own preferences, etc.

In my experience, the girls that you have a "beyond money rapport" with, will seek you out after your outing and make future attempts to spend time with you, maybe even without money exchange (Sb in London just wanted to enjoy restaurants and suites, no cash). I've even heard (never been) that the bar girls in Thailand will treat you better and give you better prices if they like you. Another good example of the human component in the exchange.

In general, you can't ignore the human component and conclude that money is the only attraction.

02.

I read so many stories here about how a monger found a super hot SB, fucked her and she did not ask for a dime. I understand that we all pay one way or another, but I consider wine & dine, accommodations, taxi / flight expenses standard. No matter how and where I meet a girl, I'm ready for these expenses. I've been using SA for over a year now, and I would say, from my experience, that 95%+ of the girls that I ever contacted, asked me for money. All of them wanted to hear a specific number, per hour, per multiple hours, per date BEFORE we even meet. Red flag, right? For many of you, it would be a no go situation. If I decline to agree to a specific rate / number, or negotiate it, they all lose interest and stop responding or just tell me they are not interested. If I were to reject every single girl that asks for money, I would have pretty much zero options to choose from. Okay, maybe a few %. I'm not ugly, not old, dress and smell well. My SA profile is almost 100% complete with a bunch of real good quality photos of me. I must admit that my standards are a bit high, I'm picky af. I only contact girls that I consider to be 7+. I guess if I had lower my standards, I would find a freebie who just wants to wine and dine, or just date a foreigner. I'm not looking for freebies specifically, this is not my priority, but it would be nice to have 1 or 2 in the mix sometimes and feel like a real boyfriend. Because when cash does not exchange hands, it just feels so much better and natural. So, how do you find freebies or non-pros? What is your strategy?

I've been back for about 2 weeks now and I finally have a chance to write this report. It's my first report here, just sharing the experience.

To all those that gave Madrid feedback / advice, thank you! I was blown away by the reception, quality, and responsiveness in Madrid. There were so many girls ready to meet that I literally had my pick of the litter. Some of the girls that I couldn't meet are still asking me over whatsapp when I plan to return. I'm kicking myself for not jumping into the Madrid pool so much earlier. PPM in Madrid comes out to 200/300 euro, from my limited experience. And in my case, it included an overnight (not negotiated, it just happened).

Elizabeth (Lili), 24/26??

She was cool on SA, so we moved over to whatsapp. I had no intention of meeting her during the 2 days I had. There were about 3 other girls that were already chomping at the bit to hang out. She was probably my 3rd or 4th preference. I had a date already scheduled for 8 pm, so I was set.

Around 5/6 Lili wrote me and asked what I was doing that night. I told her I had plans and that we should try for the next day. She mentioned earlier that she wanted to hang out around 10 pm. I had plans for 8 but work was quickly getting in the way. Lili wrote me again and told me she was bored. Work was going to kill my 8 pm but I knew that I would be done by 10. She sent me a voice message telling me how bored she was. So I asked her if she wanted to come over and chill with me, and she accepted, after asking me 100 times if I was serious. I started to think it was a bad idea.

She was about an hour away and during her trip to me, she just seemed like a crazy girl. She kept asking if I was going to be there, or if I was going to stand her up. Am I serious about meeting? I'm starting to shoot myself thinking that I chose the wrong girl. There was a starbucks on the corner, and I told her that I was going to grab a coffee and she was surprised that I asked her what she wanted. Starbucks ended up closing as I got there and this would repeat throughout the night. When she finally gets to the plaza, she texted me and I told her that I changed my mind about meeting (joke) and she called me like, WTF, it just took an hour to get here. Are you serious! I walked toward her on my cell while telling her that I'm sorry I just can't make it. LOL. She saw me and just started laughing. So we hugged and got off to a good start. Once we got together, I could see all her anxiety disappear. I suggested grabbing a quick drink before trying a tapas place that I found online. She was down. After the drink, we started our mission for food. It was late and there were plenty of people out, but the restaurants were closing. We couldn't find food anywhere. It was literally closing time everywhere. We went to about 5 places that all were closing as we walked in the door. We found a chill place that was still open and ate / drank outside. This was not a fancy place at all, but they had the best olives I've ever tasted in my life. I realized that I've been robbed all these years of eating olives. I had no idea they could be this good.

I find out she is an english teacher and an actress. After looking for another place to have a drink and failing, we decided to head back to my place. We would have had to go too far in order to get to a good bar, so we went with the easy option. Once we arrived, it was all good and very comfortable. We chatted on the couch and she continued to tell me more about her situation. We took pictures and just chilled. We were both drunk and we both took edibles, so we were super chill and just chatting.

It started getting late, so it was time to put the moves on her. I came in the living room and told her that I was about to sleep and walked over to her to give her goodnight kiss. As she was sitting on the couch, I stood in front or her and leaned in for a kiss on the cheek. The kiss was slow and definitely suggestive. I then kissed the other cheek, touching her nose with mine as I switched, still taking it slowly, while also stroking her hair (I'm a hair guy). She put her hand on my face and kissed me with a gentle peck and a look that foretold of more to come. She pulled me closer for more kisses as I mounted her kinda like a girl would mount you if you were sitting on the couch (obvious I didn't' put all my weight on her! As I kissed her and roamed all over freely, I could tell she was really into it. Every peck on the neck or shoulder was met with a moan that seemed uncontrollable. I've found that a lot of girls like when you are on top of them like this. There is a certain dominance mixed with pleasure that really makes them melt. I pull her head back by her hair in order to kiss her neck as she moaned and continued to grab me in a way that said, "what are you waiting for? She took off my shirt and started the nipple sucking. I love that feeling. We ended up laying down on the couch still making out as I started to undo her dress and disrobe her from the top down. As I undid her bra, I was immediately greeted by a pierced left nipple that she asked me to be careful with. Dress came fully off and I reached down to test the waters as she kisses my shoulders and even the top of my head. She was very sensual. She asked if I had a condom and I almost shot myself. I only had one condom and I was probably out of luck to find another one. At this point, I knew I would go through at least 3 condoms by the morning time and was stuck with just making the one last for one big hurrah.

We stand up and make our way to the bedroom. She lays down with no hesitation and the make out session continues. When I touch her again, I see that she is even more wet than before. I roam her whole body with my hands and as always got a good look at what's down below. It's important to know if all is well. Shaved, not shaved, bumps / no bumps, smell / no smell. She was clean and ready to go. The kissing began again chest to chest but I wasn't on top of her, more on the side where I could touch her whole body from head to feet. I moved further up and she put it in her mouth with no hesitation. I stuck with the blowjob for about 30 seconds but was much more interested in what her sensual sex game was like. Rolled down the bag as she waited, rubbing my thighs. We start in mish slow, lot of kissing. She was not the greatest kisser, but she wasn't bad, problably hadn't come across a certain kissing style before. She is loving mish and everytime I touch the clit, she squeezes my arm or whatever her hand is near. Her body was nice. She was short and thin with wide hips but not skinny. Mish turns into banging her on the side, which turns into doggy. I felt her pushing her hips up too high during doggy, so I gently pulled her hips back in order to make the connection more comfortable (less pressure bending my junk). The session escalated and the doggy pounding got harder, as I grabbed her arms or her hair, her response each time was suggesting to do it more. LOL. Finally bust in the bag and she collapsed on the bed and said "Wow" . Hahahah. I still laugh in my head when I think of her laying on the bed and the only thing that came to her mind was "wow" LOL. Got cleaned up and she asked if she could stay but said that she can't sleep without the TV on and complained that there was no TV in the bedroom. She slept on the couch and I slept in the bedroom. The next morning, I gave her 250 eu and she seemed surprised (we agree on 200). I called her a bolt (like Uber) and before she left she gave me the let's bang again eyes, but I had no condoms (I'm still mad about that). She hugged me at the door with a strong hug. It actually surprised me because it was prolonged and strong. She texted me when she got home and hit me two days later to hang out again and about a week ago asking when I'll be back.

She was super cool and for anyone that says that SA girls are just escorts, I can't emphasize enough that though they may have sex for money, they are definitely not pros. Pros don't do all night for 200 euros and they usually don't call you to hang out. Just saying. I totally plan on seeing her next time I'm in town. I now have a reason to check out Spain. I waited waaaay too long to check out this gem.

Great report. Adding Madrid to my cities to visit.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2596556]If you are not super fat, not super old, and / or not super ugly, then SBs and even pros will fuck you happily for more than your money.

I am not super fat, I am not super old, and I am not super ugly, and so many WGs and SBs like both me and my money, not just my money.

Yes, there might be some gals that only like me for my money, but usually I will not see them again, especially an SB.

Will any of these gals see me without money? I admit, probably not. Do many of them like me for more than just the money? Probably yes.[/QUOTE]Absolutely spot on. Well said!

[QUOTE=MiamiBoy1;2596695]I read so many stories here about how a monger found a super hot SB, fucked her and she did not ask for a dime. I understand that we all pay one way or another, but I consider wine & dine, accommodations, taxi / flight expenses standard. No matter how and where I meet a girl, I'm ready for these expenses. I've been using SA for over a year now, and I would say, from my experience, that 95%+ of the girls that I ever contacted, asked me for money. All of them wanted to hear a specific number, per hour, per multiple hours, per date BEFORE we even meet. Red flag, right? For many of you, it would be a no go situation. If I decline to agree to a specific rate / number, or negotiate it, they all lose interest and stop responding or just tell me they are not interested. If I were to reject every single girl that asks for money, I would have pretty much zero options to choose from. Okay, maybe a few %. I'm not ugly, not old, dress and smell well. My SA profile is almost 100% complete with a bunch of real good quality photos of me. I must admit that my standards are a bit high, I'm picky af. I only contact girls that I consider to be 7+. I guess if I had lower my standards, I would find a freebie who just wants to wine and dine, or just date a foreigner. I'm not looking for freebies specifically, this is not my priority, but it would be nice to have 1 or 2 in the mix sometimes and feel like a real boyfriend. Because when cash does not exchange hands, it just feels so much better and natural. So, how do you find freebies or non-pros? What is your strategy?[/QUOTE]I am with you that it's rare to find a girl that doesn't want to settle amount before the date. Probably only 2-3 of the twenty five or so seeking girls I've banged. That said settling a PPM amount before the date does not make them a pro. I'the say pretty much all the girls and I consider them non pros. They are just girls that can live in the moment and enjoy time with a guy they like a the come out a bit better off. They surely do not consider themselves pros and will be mightily offended if you do.

That said I think getting freebies on SA is wrong. They are on SA for sugar. Them giving you sugar and you not giving it back is just wrong IMO. At least that is how I play.

[QUOTE=Oneminuteboy;2596816]Great report. Adding Madrid to my cities to visit.[/QUOTE]Agree. Awesome report. And so much the "correct" SB experience. A true girlfriend for 24 hours because she wants to. There is no pro going to hang with you overnight for $300. I simply love when these girls decide to stay the night. To me that's the ultimate "I enjoy being with you" statement. Because they truly don't have to. Money is the same regardless. So it's really her choice to hang with you. Totally awesome.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2596926]Agree. Awesome report. And so much the "correct" SB experience. A true girlfriend for 24 hours because she wants to. There is no pro going to hang with you overnight for $300. I simply love when these girls decide to stay the night. To me that's the ultimate "I enjoy being with you" statement. Because they truly don't have to. Money is the same regardless. So it's really her choice to hang with you. Totally awesome.[/QUOTE]It's really about trust. You are correct, it goes both ways. For some reason, probably ego, when money is less obvious, I am more generous. I hate being an ATM. You get back what you give. Most girls are a bit insecure. Lots of guy try to get something for nothing. Others are just flakes. They get ghosted and rejected a lot. So, the defensive mechanism is to reject us first. Staying overnight is an indication she trusts you. I believe actions are more reliable than words.

I have previously mentioned that among the 25 gals that I hooked up with on SA, over a period of 20 months on the site, that about 12 or 13 were freebies.

Why only 25 gals total? I was picky and I avoided pros. And when I found a few gals that I liked, then I was happily set for a few weeks or months.

More importantly, how did I score the freebies? It was never my intention to score freebies, but it just happened. Based on the dozen freebies that I scored, I hate to generalize, but here is a rough breakdown as follows.

Some were brand new to SA. It was not only their first day on SA, but maybe even their first hour on SA. I immediatley chatted them up and if there was any chemistry, I immediately suggested a meet and greet for that same night or soon thereafter. And so, they were not yet jaded and I could set their expectations.

Some were in it for the long game. Hoping to marry a rich guy. I know that at least one of my former freebies eventually did marry a rich guy, as I saw her huge engagement ring on her social media about a year after we were together.

Some were decently employed and were not desperate for money. They just wanted to have fun, with me picking up the tab, and liked having a "rich" boyfriend.

And then there were the PPMs that later became freebies. I did not include them in my list of 12 or 13 freebies. If I count PPMs that I converted to freebies, then my number of freebies is in the high teens. Remember, I only met with non pros. And with non pros, after they have been with you intimately for a few weeks, they do not want to stop seeing you. I was like a friend to them, that they had fun with, and that they shared quality intimacy with. Gosh, I don't know how many PPM gals later said to me that I did not have to give them anything. I am not rich, super fit, or young. I was just a fun and easy going guy, and I was not creepy or weird in bed.

But at the end of the day, I was always prepared to help them out financially. If you are going to be on SA, you cannot be cheap about it. I did not seek freebies. Just happened. And in fact, IMHO, PPM is better than a freebie. With freebies, there's always this sense of mystery and discomfort about what is she in this for. So if you do not mind my advice, I suggest not seeking freebies on SA. It is being cheap, and always worrying about the other shoe to drop is not worth it. Aren't there websites for freebies? Like friend finder or tinder or match or plenty of fish and etc?

[QUOTE=MiamiBoy1;2596695]I read so many stories here about how a monger found a super hot SB, fucked her and she did not ask for a dime. I understand that we all pay one way or another, but I consider wine & dine, accommodations, taxi / flight expenses standard. No matter how and where I meet a girl, I'm ready for these expenses. I've been using SA for over a year now, and I would say, from my experience, that 95%+ of the girls that I ever contacted, asked me for money. All of them wanted to hear a specific number, per hour, per multiple hours, per date BEFORE we even meet. Red flag, right? For many of you, it would be a no go situation. If I decline to agree to a specific rate / number, or negotiate it, they all lose interest and stop responding or just tell me they are not interested. If I were to reject every single girl that asks for money, I would have pretty much zero options to choose from. Okay, maybe a few %. I'm not ugly, not old, dress and smell well. My SA profile is almost 100% complete with a bunch of real good quality photos of me. I must admit that my standards are a bit high, I'm picky af. I only contact girls that I consider to be 7+. I guess if I had lower my standards, I would find a freebie who just wants to wine and dine, or just date a foreigner. I'm not looking for freebies specifically, this is not my priority, but it would be nice to have 1 or 2 in the mix sometimes and feel like a real boyfriend. Because when cash does not exchange hands, it just feels so much better and natural. So, how do you find freebies or non-pros? What is your strategy?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2596991]I have previously mentioned that among the 25 gals that I hooked up with on SA, over a period of 20 months on the site, that about 12 or 13 were freebies.

Why only 25 gals total? I was picky and I avoided pros. And when I found a few gals that I liked, then I was happily set for a few weeks or months.

More importantly, how did I score the freebies? It was never my intention to score freebies, but it just happened. Based on the dozen freebies that I scored, I hate to generalize, but here is a rough breakdown as follows.

Some were brand new to SA. It was not only their first day on SA, but maybe even their first hour on SA. I immediatley chatted them up and if there was any chemistry, I immediately suggested a meet and greet for that same night or soon thereafter. And so, they were not yet jaded and I could set their expectations.

Some were in it for the long game. Hoping to marry a rich guy. I know that at least one of my former freebies eventually did marry a rich guy, as I saw her huge engagement ring on her social media about a year after we were together.

Some were decently employed and were not desperate for money. They just wanted to have fun, with me picking up the tab, and liked having a "rich" boyfriend.

And then there were the PPMs that later became freebies. I did not include them in my list of 12 or 13 freebies. If I count PPMs that I converted to freebies, then my number of freebies is in the high teens. Remember, I only met with non pros. And with non pros, after they have been with you intimately for a few weeks, they do not want to stop seeing you. I was like a friend to them, that they had fun with, and that they shared quality intimacy with. Gosh, I don't know how many PPM gals later said to me that I did not have to give them anything. I am not rich, super fit, or young. I was just a fun and easy going guy, and I was not creepy or weird in bed.

But at the end of the day, I was always prepared to help them out financially. If you are going to be on SA, you cannot be cheap about it. I did not seek freebies. Just happened. And in fact, IMHO, PPM is better than a freebie. With freebies, there's always this sense of mystery and discomfort about what is she in this for. So if you do not mind my advice, I suggest not seeking freebies on SA. It is being cheap, and always worrying about the other shoe to drop is not worth it. Aren't there websites for freebies? Like friend finder or tinder or match or plenty of fish and etc?[/QUOTE]Basically, about 50% of the women you met, never brought up PPM / money discussion, correct? How many women have you contacted in total to get to those numbers (25 hook ups, 12/13 freebies)? Thousands? Your numbers are impressive, honestly. I'm wondering if I'm doing something wrong, or is it just a bad luck?

[QUOTE=MiamiBoy1;2597309]Basically, about 50% of the women you met, never brought up PPM / money discussion, correct? How many women have you contacted in total to get to those numbers (25 hook ups, 12/13 freebies)? Thousands? Your numbers are impressive, honestly. I'm wondering if I'm doing something wrong, or is it just a bad luck?[/QUOTE]Midwestern, I think you need to delineate the situation in China versus the United States. Western men are very popular with Chinese and other Asian women. There is more of the long-game husband search for many of these women.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2596991]I have previously mentioned that among the 25 gals that I hooked up with on SA, over a period of 20 months on the site, that about 12 or 13 were freebies.

Why only 25 gals total? I was picky and I avoided pros. And when I found a few gals that I liked, then I was happily set for a few weeks or months.

[/QUOTE]You also have to factor the country and the culture difference. A western guy hunting in China adds dynamic also.

[QUOTE=MiamiBoy1;2597309]Basically, about 50% of the women you met, never brought up PPM / money discussion, correct? How many women have you contacted in total to get to those numbers (25 hook ups, 12/13 freebies)? Thousands? Your numbers are impressive, honestly. I'm wondering if I'm doing something wrong, or is it just a bad luck?[/QUOTE]Yes, I contacted thousands of gals. Literally. I was on SA for several hours a day, everyday. Over 20 hours a week. I was hooked. Some people are addicted to online gaming. I was addicted to SA.

Everyday, I would go through at least the first half dozen pages of profiles, sorted based on most recent activity. I would send messages to at least 20 gals per day. I ended up meeting at least 50 gals in person over the 20 months that I was on SA. Eventually hooked up with half of them. No chemistry with other half. For me, meet and greet was very important.

Many (most) of the women wanted to discuss financial arrangements before meeting, and I just told them let's just meet first, and these women felt it was wasting their time to meet without discussing the arrangement. To me, I thought it was a waste of time to discuss arrangements with people that I have not even met in person yet. So, I pretty much only met women that did not bring up money before we met.

So, I met 50, out of several thousand that I initially contacted, and out of maybe the one thousand that bothered to reply back to me.

When we did meet, if there was chemistry, then we would either hook up that night, or later. About a third of the time, they asked about the arrangement, about a third of the time I brought it up (and when I did this, about half the time the gal said let's not talk about it now (a few were insulted that I even brought it up), and a third of the time it was not brought up.

Not sure if this matters, but this was San Francisco, where there were a ton of people on SA and a ton of activity on SA, especially when including the areas outside SF.

But again, don't seek freebies on SA. That's my advice.

I stumbled on this thread just by accident. Though I know SA (mentioned alot on South American / Mexican cities discussion), I signed up yesterday purely to rake some prospects for MTY / MDE upcoming trip (2 - 4 week timeframe). Iam not new to that scene but SA is just another medium to find some (good ones)!

However just for sh**t & g**gl*s I thought of checking local talent(central/S TX); got hit with dozen plus, same profiles more or less, asking for assistance, blah blah. I picked one, agreed to meet over drinks after work and she showed up on time. We sat, and she basically went to town on menu. LOL! Now I'm gentlemen enough not to object and let her enjoy it, but a simple meet and greet turn into fu**in 200 $ food / drink bill and all I got are barely 2 bases.

I drop her off, played the trick of getting invited in but failed. she's ready to spend weekend in hotel though and let me suggest 'arrangement' $$ which is worthy of her,
However I'm not going to spend one more min with her. There's bunch more who approached and want to meet at 4 star steak house / seafood place as initial meeting. (one invited straight up in her apt for 'coffee' which I spooked and declined. Who knows if brothers are sitting in there waiting for me. LOL).

Anyway, just wanted to get some insight on usa based SA options; I get it these bit**s are all flaky and shit, but what is usual setup for initial screening and spending? And is 200-300 ppm is avg running for these 'so called college gals' (which I highly doubt many of them are not even in school).

Sorry for nave post but this is a bit different than tindr / bumble style hookup so thought I ask.

Cheers fu*k*rs!

[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2597313]Midwestern, I think you need to delineate the situation in China versus the United States. Western men are very popular with Chinese and other Asian women. There is more of the long-game husband search for many of these women.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=BrizLad;2597338]You also have to factor the country and the culture difference. A western guy hunting in China adds dynamic also.[/QUOTE]I only used SA in the United States, and mostly in San Francisco, including entire bay area. I used to live and work in SF.

When using SA, I only met up with gals that did NOT talk about money before the meet and greet. These gals barely exist. That's why I only ended up meeting about 50 gals during 20 months, even though I spent hours every day on SA.

In addition, I did not use SA to meet college girls. I met some college girls, and it was boring. So, my age target was late 20s and 30s.

If I was on the road, then I just used SA for PPM hookups.

Again, I strongly recommend not looking for freebies on SA. Even when you find a freebie, it' is not worth it, on average, from my experience.

In China, I look for arrangements with MP gals. About a quarter of the MP gals have BFs and arrangements.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2597388]I only used SA in the United States, and mostly in San Francisco, including entire bay area. I used to live and work in SF.

When using SA, I only met up with gals that did NOT talk about money before the meet and greet. These gals barely exist. That's why I only ended up meeting about 50 gals during 20 months, even though I spent hours every day on SA.

In addition, I did not use SA to meet college girls. I met some college girls, and it was boring. So, my age target was late 20s and 30s.

If I was on the road, then I just used SA for PPM hookups.

Again, I strongly recommend not looking for freebies on SA. Even when you find a freebie, it' is not worth it, on average, from my experience.

In China, I look for arrangements with MP gals. About a quarter of the MP gals have BFs and arrangements.[/QUOTE]Can you provide a little more detail on the ppm hookups. My limited experience show that many, but not all, are just really escorts.

I would not call them sugarbabies at all. The sb requires some attraction and do some screening. They usually want more money than the escorts. I am reluctant to go with them because of the risks and they lie like sailors. Thus, you have no idea what you are going to get.

[QUOTE=Akibono;2597723]Can you provide a little more detail on the ppm hookups. My limited experience show that many, but not all, are just really escorts.

I would not call them sugarbabies at all. The sb requires some attraction and do some screening. They usually want more money than the escorts. I am reluctant to go with them because of the risks and they lie like sailors. Thus, you have no idea what you are going to get.[/QUOTE]I'm in Medellin now, for 1. 5 months already, and SA here sucks. 90%+ of SA girls have no clue how real SB-SD relationships work (or at least, some similar relationships, not 1 night stands). They don't think long term, they don't care about chemistry and affection, but they lie both are important to them. Every time I try to set up a date, I explain what I expect from the date, what I want and need. I explain what GFE means, without going into too much detail. I tell them how chemistry important to me, and that I want both of us to have fun and enjoy our time together. And you know what? They all agree to it, they lie that that is exactly what they are looking for, blah blah blah. When we finally meet, I give them my best BFE (boyfriend experience LOL) and make sure girls are comfortable and relaxed. Only to see them get dressed in less than 3 minutes and stand by the entrance door ready to leave after 1st (and last) round of sex. What a turnoff! And of course, no "thank you" or "would love to see you again" message after the date. Most of my SA dates in MDE happen to be 1 night stands, no matter how hard I try or screen them. Reminds me of Lleras girls, they want you to cum as fast as possible, so that they get back to the park to milk another sucker. The difference is that SA girls are usually lower volume, and provide better GFE service, overall than hardcore pros in El Centro or Parque Lleras.

[QUOTE=MiamiBoy1;2597969]I'm in Medellin now, for 1. 5 months already, and SA here sucks. 90%+ of SA girls have no clue how real SB-SD relationships work (or at least, some similar relationships, not 1 night stands). They don't think long term, they don't care about chemistry and affection, but they lie both are important to them. Every time I try to set up a date, I explain what I expect from the date, what I want and need. I explain what GFE means, without going into too much detail. I tell them how chemistry important to me, and that I want both of us to have fun and enjoy our time together. And you know what? They all agree to it, they lie that that is exactly what they are looking for, blah blah blah. When we finally meet, I give them my best BFE (boyfriend experience LOL) and make sure girls are comfortable and relaxed. Only to see them get dressed in less than 3 minutes and stand by the entrance door ready to leave after 1st (and last) round of sex. What a turnoff! And of course, no "thank you" or "would love to see you again" message after the date. Most of my SA dates in MDE happen to be 1 night stands, no matter how hard I try or screen them. Reminds me of Lleras girls, they want you to cum as fast as possible, so that they get back to the park to milk another sucker. The difference is that SA girls are usually lower volume, and provide better GFE service, overall than hardcore pros in El Centro or Parque Lleras.[/QUOTE]Yeah I think you have hit upon a fundamental difference between Colombia and USA — Seeking is very different. Sure there are pros in the US on Seeking but they are easy to weed out. And the non pros are awesome GFE dates. I think in MDE most of the SA girls are pros. Harder to find non pro. One time the USA wins on P4 P. Yay!

P.S. Think DramaFree has a bunch of luck but maybe that is Mexico City I think. But hit him up and see.

[QUOTE=Akibono;2597723]Can you provide a little more detail on the ppm hookups. My limited experience show that many, but not all, are just really escorts.

I would not call them sugarbabies at all. The sb requires some attraction and do some screening. They usually want more money than the escorts. I am reluctant to go with them because of the risks and they lie like sailors. Thus, you have no idea what you are going to get.[/QUOTE]My experience is the good girls def don't think of themselves as pros and as soon as you cross the line you are gone. For example Kayla by our third night (so already had sex four times. And given her "allowance") we were discussing SA and our experiences. (P.S. I don't do this much because it can hurt the vibe). And she says "Some guys want to just offer me money to go to the hotel room. I always block them. I'm not a prostitute!" She was clearly offended by any notion that she's a pro. Yet we she just got allowance for the time spent with me that included a couple hours in bed. Importantly she sees this as a choice she made to sleep with a guy she likes. And he gives her spending / rent money. No big deal. But NOT prostitution in her mind. (Or mine).

Só never say PPM. Never say how much you want? Or how much you charge. My patter after some nice chat is:

"So here is how I see our date going. We meet for dinner or drinks and we have an awesome time. Assuming we vibe we take things private. On the off chance we don't vibe we can part after dinner no harm no foul. Does that sound about right?

After they say yes I ask separately "of course I'the want to give you a gift / allowance — did you have something in mind?

This approach has worked well — keeping them engaged amd discussing the topic without any overt mentions of PPM. My stats as if this month are (W vs L):

Lunch 1 and 3.

Drinks 8 and 0.

Dinner 19 and 4.

As you may have guessed I don't do lunch anymore. LOL. Although both my lunch and other fails were primarily when new to the game. Pretty spotless record of late.

[QUOTE=MiamiBoy1;2597969]I'm in Medellin now, for 1. 5 months already, and SA here sucks. 90%+ of SA girls have no clue how real SB-SD relationships work (or at least, some similar relationships, not 1 night stands). They don't think long term, they don't care about chemistry and affection, but they lie both are important to them. Every time I try to set up a date, I explain what I expect from the date, what I want and need. I explain what GFE means, without going into too much detail. I tell them how chemistry important to me, and that I want both of us to have fun and enjoy our time together. And you know what? They all agree to it, they lie that that is exactly what they are looking for, blah blah blah. When we finally meet, I give them my best BFE (boyfriend experience LOL) and make sure girls are comfortable and relaxed. Only to see them get dressed in less than 3 minutes and stand by the entrance door ready to leave after 1st (and last) round of sex. What a turnoff! And of course, no "thank you" or "would love to see you again" message after the date. Most of my SA dates in MDE happen to be 1 night stands, no matter how hard I try or screen them. Reminds me of Lleras girls, they want you to cum as fast as possible, so that they get back to the park to milk another sucker. The difference is that SA girls are usually lower volume, and provide better GFE service, overall than hardcore pros in El Centro or Parque Lleras.[/QUOTE]I am about to leave Guadalajara, where I have 2 coed sugar babies who have provided almost daily sex that always had DFK, BBBJ with CIM and swallow, to go to Medellin for the next 3 weeks. One girl is a ballet student who is into Bob Dylan and the Beatles. The other is a nanotechnology major who did her homework in my Airbnb prior to us having mind boggling sex. The reason for the move to Colombia was because of change of scenery and price. Here in Mexico I have been giving gifts of about $200 per date (I have justified the amount by the great sex that they are giving me). Apparently, after texting POTs via WhatsApp, I have been informed that the going rate for a date in Medellin is 300 k, which is $77. I am just curious how you vetted your selections. If your experience is the norm, I might have to curtail my plan of staying in Medellin for 3 weeks.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2598033]Yeah I think you have hit upon a fundamental difference between Colombia and USA Seeking is very different. Sure there are pros in the US on Seeking but they are easy to weed out. And the non pros are awesome GFE dates. I think in MDE most of the SA girls are pros. Harder to find non pro. One time the USA wins on P4 P. Yay!

P.S. Think DramaFree has a bunch of luck but maybe that is Mexico City I think. But hit him up and see.[/QUOTE]As much as I do not like American Chicks, I would much rather be with American girls then girls from MDE all day long. Honestly a girl tells me they are from Colombia I block them now, I just can not deal with there bad attitudes. I hated MDE and I would never go back, even if you paid me. I do believe Elvis that Bogota is much better, but I will stick with Mxico / Russia. I Love the girls, weather and food in Mxico. Another plus Mexican girls love sex and are total freaks.

As far as Mamiab. He complains a lot and find fault in a lot of destinations. I do say that MDE sucks and the good old days are long gone in Kiev, but I speak very highly about Mexico and Russia. Mb. Complains and finds fault in most places.

[QUOTE=MiamiBoy1;2597969]I'm in Medellin now, for 1. 5 months already, and SA here sucks. 90%+ of SA girls have no clue how real SB-SD relationships work (or at least, some similar relationships, not 1 night stands). They don't think long term, they don't care about chemistry and affection, but they lie both are important to them. Every time I try to set up a date, I explain what I expect from the date, what I want and need. I explain what GFE means, without going into too much detail. I tell them how chemistry important to me, and that I want both of us to have fun and enjoy our time together. And you know what? They all agree to it, they lie that that is exactly what they are looking for, blah blah blah. When we finally meet, I give them my best BFE (boyfriend experience LOL) and make sure girls are comfortable and relaxed. Only to see them get dressed in less than 3 minutes and stand by the entrance door ready to leave after 1st (and last) round of sex. What a turnoff! And of course, no "thank you" or "would love to see you again" message after the date. Most of my SA dates in MDE happen to be 1 night stands, no matter how hard I try or screen them. Reminds me of Lleras girls, they want you to cum as fast as possible, so that they get back to the park to milk another sucker. The difference is that SA girls are usually lower volume, and provide better GFE service, overall than hardcore pros in El Centro or Parque Lleras.[/QUOTE]Not much you can do when a girl wants quick cash. The best way for her is many guys with short meetings. Sometimes, if you know what she needs and you can provide it, you can bump them out of the escort mindset, but I think that is mostly a losing battle. Once a gal is OK with sleeping around, you are not going to turn them back. The SBs are usually still apprehensive with going with strangers. So, they do more screening which takes time and effort. This means, no easy payday for them and they are looking for something more long-term. What puts me off is that cheap hooker attitude where you are just treated as another commodity based on what she can get from you. Best to run away from them unless a quick hookup is what you are looking for.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2598051]As much as I do not like American Chicks, I would much rather be with American girls then girls from MDE all day long. Honestly a girl tells me they are from Colombia I block them now, I just can not deal with there bad attitudes. I hated MDE and I would never go back, even if you paid me. I do believe Elvis that Bogota is much better, but I will stick with Mxico / Russia. I Love the girls, weather and food in Mxico. Another plus Mexican girls love sex and are total freaks.

As far as Mamiab. He complains a lot and find fault in a lot of destinations. I do say that MDE sucks and the good old days are long gone in Kiev, but I speak very highly about Mexico and Russia. Mb. Complains and finds fault in most places.[/QUOTE]Yes, I do complain, but my complaints are legit, based on my own experience. SA in Mexico City was much much better than in MDE (at least, last summer when I was there). Bogota is better than MDE, and it was pretty good on my trip there half a year ago (maybe because of covid restrictions / strikes? Who knows), but this time Bogota sucked too. SA could be good in Rio, but for some reason it is not popular there, and pickings are slim, even though Rio got plenty of great talent, most beautiful girls I have ever seen, but I assume they are non-pros or just not familiar with SA. Can't tell anything about Russia, never used SA there, but Tinder rocks (at least for me, because I'm Russian and speak the language).

Dramafree, and all other posters, if you think my complaints are not legit, feel free to explain why. Maybe I'm being overly pessimistic and you have different experiences.

[QUOTE=MiamiBoy1;2598264]Yes, I do complain, but my complaints are legit, based on my own experience. SA in Mexico City was much much better than in MDE (at least, last summer when I was there). Bogota is better than MDE, and it was pretty good on my trip there half a year ago (maybe because of covid restrictions / strikes? Who knows), but this time Bogota sucked too. SA could be good in Rio, but for some reason it is not popular there, and pickings are slim, even though Rio got plenty of great talent, most beautiful girls I have ever seen, but I assume they are non-pros or just not familiar with SA. Can't tell anything about Russia, never used SA there, but Tinder rocks (at least for me, because I'm Russian and speak the language).

Dramafree, and all other posters, if you think my complaints are not legit, feel free to explain why. Maybe I'm being overly pessimistic and you have different experiences.[/QUOTE]I have written about my recommendations extensively, please read. I do recommend picking one spot, put all your resources into that destination. (Time, Money and hard work).

I do agree you complain a lot, I do appreciate your honesty. I did like your post on what makes a 10 in a girl.

[QUOTE=Akibono;2597723]Can you provide a little more detail on the ppm hookups. My limited experience show that many, but not all, are just really escorts.

[/QUOTE]If they talked about money before meeting, then I avoided them. This is a great way to weed out most pros.

During the meet and greet (my favorite was over drinks), we would just get to know each other. This is where I would find out what they did for a living. And so, I met a nanny, a struggling restaurant owner, a new college graduate barely making ends meet at her new job, a person starting her own little business, etc. None of them were lying, as they knew so many tiny details about their jobs. And so, I would say something like, "Wow, it must be hard making rent every month. Even though we just met, I really like you. Let me give you $400. " And then the gal would say something like, "oh my god, that is so awesome of of you, thank you!" I think there was only one time that we did not end up fucking at some point.

There are a lot of housewives on SA too. I avoided them. From my many exchanges with them, I got the sense that they had become semi pros and thus quite business like.

[QUOTE=MiamiBoy1;2597969]90%+ of SA girls have no clue how real SB-SD relationships work (or at least, some similar relationships, not 1 night stands). [/QUOTE]If you want constructive criticism, here you go.

2 in 3 people cannot think long term: [URL]https://www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sci-sn-marshmallow-test-kids-20180626-story.html[/URL].

[QUOTE=MiamiBoy1;2597969]Every time I try to set up a date, I explain what I expect from the date, what I want and need. I explain what GFE means, without going into too much detail. I tell them how chemistry important to me, and that I want both of us to have fun and enjoy our time together. And you know what? They all agree to it, they lie that that is exactly what they are looking for, blah blah blah. [/QUOTE]MB,

You are talking too much. Let us make this easy. First thing you do is chat up the gal. For you, if she is not in college or has gone to college, she is a WG and treat her as such. If she gives you a price, she is a WG. Fuck her or tell her to fuck off but do not, do not try to make a WG into a sugar baby.

Stop with the blabbering on line. Get their number and meet them for a drink or coffee. Period. Have them take a personality test so you know how their minds work, ask them why they got on the site, ask about their family, ask about their dreams. You are interviewing them as they talk.

Finally, ask them what their needs are. Do they need a new Iphone? If she says that, she is a WG. Do they want money for mom's leaky roof or dad's medicine? Continue on.

Now is the time you decide to fuck her, tell her to fuck off, or make a SB offer. See how far it has gotten now? Make the woman jump over hurdles. Her being a SB is a great gig.

Tell her your job as a SD is not just you give her money and she gives you sex. You are here to meet her needs, and she will want to meet yours. Sometimes it will be money but there are other times it will be with your smarts and work.

Johns give WGs fish. SDs should be master fisherman and show the SB how to fish. Do not brag. Just let her see how your mind works. Only teach if she asks because she will learn just by being around you. Tell her you will fulfill her needs but in the order you want to. That is your hook unto a long term relationship.

I would not put too much emphasis on looks. I would put much more on sexual prowess, personality, and dependability with a potential SB. If a SB understands you are trying to improve her life, she will fall in love with you.

Five times I have had women tell me they love me in the last 2 years and mean it. The way you know that you are in is the SB will introduce you to your friends and family. Families hate johns but they love SDs who are helping their little girl. Understand that she is going to get shit from people for seeing you an older gringo. You have to be such a positive force in her life she does not mind. Hell, I have had mothers tell their daughters not to blow it with me. And I know all about the families of my ex SBs.

When you did your pay scale with 10's and seeking, I did not want to correct you. Your pay scale was logical, rational, and dead wrong. First off, women are not as rational about money as men are. Women are paid equally to men but they value quality of life more than money and go into easier positions with more time off.

As for the 10 types, they get so many fucking offers they are sick of it. What they want is someone safe, dependable and not full of shit. Every fucking time I go out with my gal, guys act like idiots. It scares her. What I have seen is safety wins out over throwing out a lot of cash every time.

So in summary, screen better, no one but college girls for SBs, anyone with a price is a ho, shut up and listen, ask yourself if she is SB material before you make an offer. Your goal is to add to her life while fucking the shit out of her.

Honestly, dude, you are the kind of guy that projects to women an image that you want to be right and agreed with. So IMO women listen to you, pretend to agree with you, fuck you, take your cash and leave. It is exhausting for them having to be someone they are not. Let them be who they are and they will not leave. For the last time, listen and let them tell you what they need. Many times, it is not money.

What are some of your thoughts on why some SB's insist we do CIP? What is in it for them?

While both my SB and I are clean, my concern is around unwanted pregnancy. She claims she has IUD (intra uterine device). I'm not sure if it is trustworthy enough to do CIP without a care in the world.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2599154]If you want constructive criticism, here you go.

2 in 3 people cannot think long term: [URL]https://www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sci-sn-marshmallow-test-kids-20180626-story.html[/URL].

MB,

You are talking too much. Let us make this easy. First thing you do is chat up the gal. For you, if she is not in college or has gone to college, she is a WG and treat her as such. If she gives you a price, she is a WG. Fuck her or tell her to fuck off but do not, do not try to make a WG into a sugar baby.

Stop with the blabbering on line. Get their number and meet them for a drink or coffee. Period. Have them take a personality test so you know how their minds work, ask them why they got on the site, ask about their family, ask about their dreams. You are interviewing them as they talk.

Finally, ask them what their needs are. Do they need a new Iphone? If she says that, she is a WG. Do they want money for mom's leaky roof or dad's medicine? Continue on.

Now is the time you decide to fuck her, tell her to fuck off, or make a SB offer. See how far it has gotten now? Make the woman jump over hurdles. Her being a SB is a great gig.

Tell her your job as a SD is not just you give her money and she gives you sex. You are here to meet her needs, and she will want to meet yours. Sometimes it will be money but there are other times it will be with your smarts and work.

Johns give WGs fish. SDs should be master fisherman and show the SB how to fish. Do not brag. Just let her see how your mind works. Only teach if she asks because she will learn just by being around you. Tell her you will fulfill her needs but in the order you want to. That is your hook unto a long term relationship.

I would not put too much emphasis on looks. I would put much more on sexual prowess, personality, and dependability with a potential SB. If a SB understands you are trying to improve her life, she will fall in love with you.

Five times I have had women tell me they love me in the last 2 years and mean it. The way you know that you are in is the SB will introduce you to your friends and family. Families hate johns but they love SDs who are helping their little girl. Understand that she is going to get shit from people for seeing you an older gringo. You have to be such a positive force in her life she does not mind. Hell, I have had mothers tell their daughters not to blow it with me. And I know all about the families of my ex SBs.

When you did your pay scale with 10's and seeking, I did not want to correct you. Your pay scale was logical, rational, and dead wrong. First off, women are not as rational about money as men are. Women are paid equally to men but they value quality of life more than money and go into easier positions with more time off.

As for the 10 types, they get so many fucking offers they are sick of it. What they want is someone safe, dependable and not full of shit. Every fucking time I go out with my gal, guys act like idiots. It scares her. What I have seen is safety wins out over throwing out a lot of cash every time.

So in summary, screen better, no one but college girls for SBs, anyone with a price is a ho, shut up and listen, ask yourself if she is SB material before you make an offer. Your goal is to add to her life while fucking the shit out of her.

Honestly, dude, you are the kind of guy that projects to women an image that you want to be right and agreed with. So IMO women listen to you, pretend to agree with you, fuck you, take your cash and leave. It is exhausting for them having to be someone they are not. Let them be who they are and they will not leave. For the last time, listen and let them tell you what they need. Many times, it is not money.[/QUOTE]Elvis, thanks for the advice. But I think we all agree that SA markets are different, and the one in Medellin in particular, is a tough one. It is full of pros, and your strategy of meet and greet, not discussing PPM, etc. Most likely won't work here (never worked for me). I never bring up PPM when I chat up the girl. She does it first. Yes, that means she is a ho. But if I tell them to fuck off, I will have no other options to choose from. I've come to a conclusion that probably the best way to meet real SBs or non-pros in Medellin is at public places (gyms, shopping malls, cafes, etc) or get introduced by mutual friends.

As for the 10's or 9's, I don't chase them, they are pain in the ass. I would be happy with 7. 5-8.

Not sure what you meant by saying my pay scale is wrong. I merely stated what SA girls were asking, based on hundreds of interactions. I don't pay the prices that are out of my budget and certainly there is zero correlation between price and performance.

[QUOTE=Gfefan;2599274]What are some of your thoughts on why some SB's insist we do CIP? What is in it for them?

While both my SB and I are clean, my concern is around unwanted pregnancy. She claims she has IUD (intra uterine device). I'm not sure if it is trustworthy enough to do CIP without a care in the world.[/QUOTE]If you do not want a kid with your SB, then do not CIP.

My current SB has been begging for CIP. And now I know why. She wants a kid. She finally admitted it.

Several years ago, one of my SBs told me that her friend got pregnant with her SD, and so she had the kid and now her friend is set for life because the court ordered the SD to pay child support. It was in a state where child support payments are very generous.

But maybe your SB is not trying to have a kid. And so what is in it for her? Maybe she just likes that closeness. I regularly fuck a former WG who is now legit and even has a BF / fiance. She always begs for CIP because she loves the feeling of me shooting a load inside of her. I have had a lot of other women say the same thing. I have to admit, CIP does feel awesome, but not worth it unless you are okay with having a kid.

[QUOTE=Gfefan;2599274]What are some of your thoughts on why some SB's insist we do CIP? What is in it for them?

While both my SB and I are clean, my concern is around unwanted pregnancy. She claims she has IUD (intra uterine device). I'm not sure if it is trustworthy enough to do CIP without a care in the world.[/QUOTE]You sound like that person who is being talked into buying that sports car he cannot afford which the salesperson will happily find someone to finance at 30%. Trusting someone who you barely know who has an interest to deceive you is a very bad idea. I always remind myself that no matter how smart I think I am I only know half the story. I can only imagine the rest and it is bound to be biased and wrong.

One of my gym instructors SB is planning a 3 week sojourn in LA. She is super horny and ready for anything. A true squirter. You will need a mattress protector.

Ok. If anyone is keen to have her details let me know. And I shall share her contacts with you.

She plans to arrive on 10 Sep.

G.

[QUOTE=MiamiBoy1;2599453]Elvis, thanks for the advice. But I think we all agree that SA markets are different, and the one in Medellin in particular, is a tough one. It is full of pros, and your strategy of meet and greet, not discussing PPM, etc. Most likely won't work here (never worked for me). I never bring up PPM when I chat up the girl. She does it first. Yes, that means she is a ho. But if I tell them to fuck off, I will have no other options to choose from.[/QUOTE]Well, I had five women in Medellin I fucked bare without a price, and I was last there in March or April and banged two hot blondes without a price but anyway.

Thing I do not get is if you are having to name a price and they are hos then why use seeking at all. You would have better luck turning hos into sugar babies. I did that a lot with strippers in the USA. As long as I kept it as PPM and did not let them get too serious, I. E. Paying for anything outside of sex, things were great. I had great sex with amazing looking women.

To me, the point of having a Colombian GF or SB is their ability to travel. If there is an uneducated ho or one who does not have a passport and cannot make it through an airport (a lot harder and more intimidating challenge that it sounds), I would fuck them and that be it. She was not SB material.

I guess it is different if you are living there. Still, I had a chick from La Isla come over and spend a few hours with me and banged her for 300 k, and she was an 8 or 9 on your scale. I would rather have a hot, excellent performing real ho than get a chick who thinks that by going on seeking she is not a ho. If she is PPM, she is.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2599932]Well, I had five women in Medellin I fucked bare without a price, and I was last there in March or April and banged two hot blondes without a price but anyway.

Thing I do not get is if you are having to name a price and they are hos then why use seeking at all. You would have better luck turning hos into sugar babies. I did that a lot with strippers in the USA. As long as I kept it as PPM and did not let them get too serious, I. E. Paying for anything outside of sex, things were great. I had great sex with amazing looking women.

To me, the point of having a Colombian GF or SB is their ability to travel. If there is an uneducated ho or one who does not have a passport and cannot make it through an airport (a lot harder and more intimidating challenge that it sounds), I would fuck them and that be it. She was not SB material.

I guess it is different if you are living there. Still, I had a chick from La Isla come over and spend a few hours with me and banged her for 300 k, and she was an 8 or 9 on your scale. I would rather have a hot, excellent performing real ho than get a chick who thinks that by going on seeking she is not a ho. If she is PPM, she is.[/QUOTE]Sorry Elvis, I agree with almost everything you say, including your political views, but I do disagree about talking to girls about what you are willing to pay, especially in Latin America. As you know, I am having great success, honestly even better then then my reports. I am very open and up front in what I am willing to pay. This eliminates so many issues and problems down the road. After this we almost never discuss money again. I have renegotiated with a couple girls. Some of my Top Tier girls I have given extra money and gifts. If you do not discuss money you will waste a lot of valuable time and many girls simply will not agree to meet, sorry this is the truth.

As far as making a great experience and mentoring this is a great idea if that is what they are looking.

As Steve said, you probably should never discuss money with American chicks until you meet them face to face. Maybe in text messages after you have talked a few times.

[QUOTE=MiamiBoy1;2598264]Yes, I do complain, but my complaints are legit, based on my own experience. SA in Mexico City was much much better than in MDE (at least, last summer when I was there). Bogota is better than MDE, and it was pretty good on my trip there half a year ago (maybe because of covid restrictions / strikes? Who knows), but this time Bogota sucked too. SA could be good in Rio, but for some reason it is not popular there, and pickings are slim, even though Rio got plenty of great talent, most beautiful girls I have ever seen, but I assume they are non-pros or just not familiar with SA. Can't tell anything about Russia, never used SA there, but Tinder rocks (at least for me, because I'm Russian and speak the language).

Dramafree, and all other posters, if you think my complaints are not legit, feel free to explain why. Maybe I'm being overly pessimistic and you have different experiences.[/QUOTE]I agree with MB: I tried SA in Mexico City: Cancún: Tegucigalpa in Honduras: Managua in Nicaragua: Panama: Caracas in Venezuela.

I can vouch it is much better than picking up hoes in clubs or strippers or massage girls and the price is dirt cheap.

Quality of women and pussy is outstanding.

Peace.

I miss Central America and SA chicas.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2599932]
Thing I do not get is if you are having to name a price and they are hos then why use seeking at all.[/QUOTE]SA / Tinder girls have provided much better service than all others putas. GFE all around. Only once I had a situation when SA girl tried to upcharge me for BBBJ (obviously, never saw her again). I would rather prefer PPM, which is per meet, than get charged by the hour by some Lleras puta and get mechanical all covered shitty service. There is nothing wrong with PPM as long as it serves both parties' needs. My dates with SA girls, with a few recent exceptions, are non-rushed, relaxed and passionate. Yes, I pay extra wine and dine expenses, taxis, etc but overall experience is so much better and well worth it. Sometimes a girl stays overnight, and the price we agreed on becomes so much sweeter, and cost per fuck decreases.

[QUOTE=Gunners1;2599699]One of my gym instructors SB is planning a 3 week sojourn in LA. She is super horny and ready for anything. A true squirter. You will need a mattress protector.

Ok. If anyone is keen to have her details let me know. And I shall share her contacts with you.

She plans to arrive on 10 Sep.

G.[/QUOTE]I am very much interested. I just bought a subscription using Bitcoin, about 9 hours ago and I am waiting for the Admin to activate my privileges. I am more of a contributor on the Los Angeles Sugar Babe USG forum, since I almost never travel and I live vicariously through you gentlemen.

[QUOTE=Ailton;2511138]I have updated the table with new entries, thank you all for the additions. To all the silent readers: we know you are there. Please consider telling us about your experiences, the setting and how much it set you back.

[B]EUROPE[/B]

[B]Austria[/B]

Vienna [URL=http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449952&viewfull=1#post2449952]300 EUR for the Night[/URL].

[B]Czech Republic[/B].[/QUOTE]Great write up! Can any current members confirm whether they've had great mileage with those US rates? They seem awfully low but maybe I'm just nave (still learning the SA game).

[QUOTE=RedWaters44;2600861]Great write up! Can any current members confirm whether they've had great mileage with those US rates? They seem awfully low but maybe I'm just nave (still learning the SA game).[/QUOTE]I am in LA, and yes, those numbers for LA are just too low. The minimum to get anything here is 400. If you want a 9 and above, then at least 500. Of course, YMMV and you might get lucky and get a good one for less, but I am talking about the norm.

[QUOTE=RedWaters44;2600861]Great write up! Can any current members confirm whether they've had great mileage with those US rates? They seem awfully low but maybe I'm just nave (still learning the SA game).[/QUOTE]My experience is rates are up a bit post pandemic. Going to be lucky to score an 8+ in a major US city for $400. Seems all the girls are asking $500 and sticking to it pretty good. Might get them down to $400. But don't think it's going lower than that. I've been thrilled with my $500 girls. Especially when they are 24 hrs like Kayla. Worth every penny.

Please drop me a private message with a short note about you and your contact details. I will share it with her and you can take it from there.

G.

[QUOTE=Shyzai;2600652]I am very much interested. I just bought a subscription using Bitcoin, about 9 hours ago and I am waiting for the Admin to activate my privileges. I am more of a contributor on the Los Angeles Sugar Babe USG forum, since I almost never travel and I live vicariously through you gentlemen.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=MiamiBoy1;2600483]SA / Tinder girls have provided much better service than all others putas. GFE all around. Only once I had a situation when SA girl tried to upcharge me for BBBJ (obviously, never saw her again). I would rather prefer PPM, which is per meet, than get charged by the hour by some Lleras puta and get mechanical all covered shitty service. There is nothing wrong with PPM as long as it serves both parties' needs. My dates with SA girls, with a few recent exceptions, are non-rushed, relaxed and passionate. Yes, I pay extra wine and dine expenses, taxis, etc but overall experience is so much better and well worth it. Sometimes a girl stays overnight, and the price we agreed on becomes so much sweeter, and cost per fuck decreases.[/QUOTE]This is spot on. An SA date (done right) is so much more / better than just going to the room for an hour or two of sex. And yeah, the moment when you realize she's sleeping over because she WANTS to is simply priceless. My only fear is that I started SA just as a way to have sex in the US. But now some 25 girls later ive become totally addicted to the more complete experience. I honestly don't know how I will feel about straight up P4 P when that becomes available to me again. I've grown very accustomed to the companionship and romance part and think I will find pure P4 P lacking. Guess we'll see!

[QUOTE=MiamiBoy1;2597969]I'm in Medellin now, for 1. 5 months already, and SA here sucks. 90%+ of SA girls have no clue how real SB-SD relationships work (or at least, some similar relationships, not 1 night stands). They don't think long term, they don't care about chemistry and affection, but they lie both are important to them. Every time I try to set up a date, I explain what I expect from the date, what I want and need. I explain what GFE means, without going into too much detail. I tell them how chemistry important to me, and that I want both of us to have fun and enjoy our time together. And you know what? They all agree to it, they lie that that is exactly what they are looking for, blah blah blah. When we finally meet, I give them my best BFE (boyfriend experience LOL) and make sure girls are comfortable and relaxed. Only to see them get dressed in less than 3 minutes and stand by the entrance door ready to leave after 1st (and last) round of sex. What a turnoff! And of course, no "thank you" or "would love to see you again" message after the date. Most of my SA dates in MDE happen to be 1 night stands, no matter how hard I try or screen them. Reminds me of Lleras girls, they want you to cum as fast as possible, so that they get back to the park to milk another sucker. The difference is that SA girls are usually lower volume, and provide better GFE service, overall than hardcore pros in El Centro or Parque Lleras.[/QUOTE]My experience with sa in medellin is that it takes a fuck ton of time. There's maybe some gems ti be found but I think the FB route is just easier. Yeah FB girls are all at least Semi pros, but at least it's quick and reliable. If you want a real SB experience Seeking or as you said real life may be the way to go, but FB is just easier overall.

SA seemed ok in Mexico City, met a couple of great girls, but that was a year ago.

[QUOTE=Shyzai;2600871]I am in LA, and yes, those numbers for LA are just too low. The minimum to get anything here is 400. If you want a 9 and above, then at least 500. Of course, YMMV and you might get lucky and get a good one for less, but I am talking about the norm.[/QUOTE]For $500 I tell the women I would rather look at porno and play with myself. Then they drop the price and their panties.

So I've met a few new candidates, in my own country. Also had a few cancel.

Of one that cancelled she was strictly business at the start that I had to warn her about SA rules. She saw this as a 6 month experiment for herself. Asked €500, which I agreed to. As we talked to pin a date she softened up. And eventually folded, scared to meet.

Had one that asked €350. But she wasn't really a looker. Because I wasn't sure I suggested the first meet just talk to see if there would be some chemistry but no fee, though expenses paid by me.
She got upset and blocked me.

Another one, looks to be more of a 6. Quoted a price of €200 per meet. Very willing to meet. Have this one on standby.

Soon meeting up with a 8/9. No price set. I really hope I can get this one, else the 6 just to see if she upgrades to a 7.

Met and slept with a 7, price at €300 per meet. Great pussy and company. Went straight to BB.

Another 7, I wasn't sure about her but got her to the room. Man was I disappointed, €350 fee. We agreed for 2-3 hours on the room. I let her go after 1 saying I was tired.

Things seem different than when I last fished in my own pond. One thing if for certain, the men are more crazy than before. The stories I heard explains why a lot disappear quickly.

Compare & contrast.

The experiences of Rextor, Oneminuteboy, RedWaters44 and others demonstrate that SA is a movable experiences based on country.

What works in one country for the girls can be an entirely different model in a different country.

If it is 'all business' as Oneminuteboy experienced, then, for me, I would abandon SA for that country as might as well just go the hooker route and get a professional experience without the SA tax.

When I monger in Philippines I don't even consider SA as it is attracting the girls with the wrong experience.

[QUOTE=BrizLad;2602178]Compare & contrast.

The experiences of Rextor, Oneminuteboy, RedWaters44 and others demonstrate that SA is a movable experiences based on country.

What works in one country for the girls can be an entirely different model in a different country.

If it is 'all business' as Oneminuteboy experienced, then, for me, I would abandon SA for that country as might as well just go the hooker route and get a professional experience without the SA tax.

When I monger in Philippines I don't even consider SA as it is attracting the girls with the wrong experience.[/QUOTE]Totally agree. Only game in town in the US. And frankly really good if you put in the time. Found a gem in Buenos Aires where the hooker / club scene bites. But yeah In countries with good P4 P Seeking is really not your best bet. Think I've seen some success from DramaFree in Monterrey or some such. But scoring in strong P4 P countries is rare / hard. Or if you do all you are scoring is a P4 P girl using SA as a platform.

So maybe you guys know this but if your girl is headed a direction you don't like it's best to just ignore / deflect in texts. They do the same in return. Like Su was asking overtly for money — like hey babe I really need xxx. And I would just ignore and change the subject in the next text. Later in person I told her that pushes us apart and she seemed to understand but I think ignore was the best policy rather than making a big deal over text.

Same thing with Kayla but less overt. She will drop a hint that she's going to do X OR why is expensive. Sometimes I bite and send her something. Sometimes I don't — I just ignore and it seems no harm no foul. She does it in reverse so I think it's a thing! Like I suggest we go to the hotel before dinner and she just ignores and deflects with some other conversation. I know she's not down for that. But we don't have some big discussion.

Guess my experience is that ignore / deflect is a good SBSD texting device to handle disconnects without making a big deal. You guys have any similar experiences?

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2602576]
Guess my experience is that ignore / deflect is a good SBSD texting device to handle disconnects without making a big deal. You guys have any similar experiences?[/QUOTE]Actually just had one this week with a casual SB from a few months ago. From time to time she must just run through her address book asking for $$ help with this or that. The tell tale sign for me, is she switches from calling me BrizLad to calling me "babe". Her other tell is her message blocks switch from 1 sentence messages to 5 sentences per send.

My deflection is "OK, next time I see you".

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2602576]

Guess my experience is that ignore / deflect is a good SBSD texting device to handle disconnects without making a big deal. You guys have any similar experiences?[/QUOTE]I'm noticing the same with one I'm currently seeing.

If it's about clothing I just say "that looks nice". And leave it at that or switch the conversation.

Also had a moment where she tried to push a date through. She managed that the first time but it was a happy end.

The second time I deflected by saying my schedule doesn't allow it and she backs off.

[QUOTE=BrizLad;2602178]Compare & contrast.

The experiences of Rextor, Oneminuteboy, RedWaters44 and others demonstrate that SA is a movable experiences based on country.

What works in one country for the girls can be an entirely different model in a different country.

If it is 'all business' as Oneminuteboy experienced, then, for me, I would abandon SA for that country as might as well just go the hooker route and get a professional experience without the SA tax.

When I monger in Philippines I don't even consider SA as it is attracting the girls with the wrong experience.[/QUOTE]I completely agree. I'm so sick of Seeking Arrangements. It is filled with the trashiest, most retarded fucking women. The platform just does not attract high quality; it either perpetuates towards naive TikTok girls that are "just experimenting heheh" & want something strictly platonic or total crack WG that rely on the platform to pay rent.

I'm quite young compared to most users on the forum, so when I first signed up on Seeking Arrangements I was simply looking to find a like-minded college girl who I can take on fancy dates, fuck regularly for $500-700/ month, and maybe develop a friendship. So far my time on there has just been a giant waste of money and unnecessary gray hairs.

I'm really contemplating creating an Instagram account and just propositioning regular, "normal" girls in my area that are aspiring models, social media influencers, or whatever the fuck. May be creepy, but simply asking if they've ever had a sugar daddy and leading them towards a fancy date where we could discuss things further shouldn't be a big deal.

Apparently models don't make a whole lot and rumors have it their agents / agencies often connect them with clients for extra income. Curious if any mongers have supported any models that may know a thing or two about how clients get in touch with models agents / their agencies?

[URL]https://nypost.com/2017/08/29/model-reveals-fashion-worlds-secret-prostitution-ring[/URL]

I did meet a really hot high end blonde escort with armpit hair last year who is a model. She was the one who first informed me of the sketchiness in the industry. It's typical to sign contracts, do photo shoots, but still not pay the girls after. I just may have to see her again and ask about how some of her non-escort friends make their extra income.

[QUOTE=RedWaters44;2602782]I completely agree. I'm so sick of Seeking Arrangements. It is filled with the trashiest, most retarded fucking women. The platform just does not attract high quality; it either perpetuates towards naive TikTok girls that are "just experimenting heheh" & want something strictly platonic or total crack WG that rely on the platform to pay rent.

I'm quite young compared to most users on the forum, so when I first signed up on Seeking Arrangements I was simply looking to find a like-minded college girl who I can take on fancy dates, fuck regularly for $500-700/ month, and maybe develop a friendship. So far my time on there has just been a giant waste of money and unnecessary gray hairs.

I'm really contemplating creating an Instagram account and just propositioning regular, "normal" girls in my area that are aspiring models, social media influencers, or whatever the fuck. May be creepy, but simply asking if they've ever had a sugar daddy and leading them towards a fancy date where we could discuss things further shouldn't be a big deal.

My only constructive advice is if u really only have $500/month to spend on sex then find a pretty girl on SA and have sex once a month. Or find a fatty and have sex twice a month. Those things are definitely possible. But do it PPM not a monthly fee.

Apparently models don't make a whole lot and rumors have it their agents / agencies often connect them with clients for extra income. Curious if any mongers have supported any models that may know a thing or two about how clients get in touch with models agents / their agencies?

[URL]https://nypost.com/2017/08/29/model-reveals-fashion-worlds-secret-prostitution-ring[/URL]

I did meet a really hot high end blonde escort with armpit hair last year who is a model. She was the one who first informed me of the sketchiness in the industry. It's typical to sign contracts, do photo shoots, but still not pay the girls after. I just may have to see her again and ask about how some of her non-escort friends make their extra income.[/QUOTE]Look I'm going to try to not be unkind here but you are misinformed or misguided in so many different ways:

You will never find a nice college girl on Seeking for $500-700/ month. Simply not going to happen. If a girl is good looking she will quickly figure out that she can charge $400+ per meetup (depending on city). And she's not going to be your friend or a true romance. It's all pretend. You are swimming in the wrong fishbowl.

Surely no model is going to even give you the time of day with that kinda cash. Yes. Some models sleep their way to the top. They sleep with the people who can advance their career. Not some guy off the street.

And the thing about doing modeling and not getting paid. This is called a scam. Yes. Happens all the time. Some guy says he's a photographer and convinces her to do shots. Maybe even sleeps with him. Maybe even makes her pay for "the proofs". Just a scam like any other. Legit photographers and agencies pay their talent.

Finally I laughed out loud in that article where the model says "I had a friend who did escort jobs and experienced unwanted sexual advances. " LOL. An escort should be EXPECTING sexual advances. That's what escorts do! It's amazing how naive some girls are and the papers and general public at large. But let's keep this our little secret.

My only constructive advice if u only have $500/month for this is either find a pretty girl on SA and have sex once a month or find a fatty and have sex twice a month. Both are very doable. Just do PPM not monthly. Good luck.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2602871]Look I'm going to try to not be unkind here but you are misinformed or misguided in so many different ways:

You will never find a nice college girl on Seeking for $500-700/ month. Simply not going to happen. If a girl is good looking she will quickly figure out that she can charge $400+ per meetup (depending on city). And she's not going to be your friend or a true romance. It's all pretend. You are swimming in the wrong fishbowl.

Surely no model is going to even give you the time of day with that kinda cash. Yes. Some models sleep their way to the top. They sleep with the people who can advance their career. Not some guy off the street.

And the thing about doing modeling and not getting paid. This is called a scam. Yes. Happens all the time. Some guy says he's a photographer and convinces her to do shots. Maybe even sleeps with him. Maybe even makes her pay for "the proofs". Just a scam like any other. Legit photographers and agencies pay their talent..[/QUOTE]No disrespect taken, Steve. I know how much you contribute to the forum and always enjoy reading your posts. I have learned a lot from you.

I know it's impossible to find a girl for $500/ month on Seeking, quite frankly if I found a girl on the site willing to accept that little I would be wary. It was simply my expectation prior to signing up on the website. Once I became more familiar, I was caught up to speed of course.

The story I mentioned about models not being paid was simply intel I shared from a high end escort I have met. The reason I shared the story was just to show how much work a model is willing to do in the hopes of making some cash and still end up getting scammed. By the way, the girl I met was actually scammed while shooting for a reputable clothing brand we've all heard of. I know $400 wouldn't make any girl on Seeking Arrangements yet alone high end escort turn her head, but if you take a step back and think about it, to a regular 18-19 year old college girl who barely even knows what a sugar daddy is even $50 is a lot of money.

Which brings me to my next point -- what IS the standard 18-21 year old girl used to really? Matching with boring guys on Tinder who get uncomfortable at the thought of not splitting the check. I met a really cute 8/10 petite 20 year old on WhatsYourPrice last year and invited her our for a dinner date for $100. We talked a bit and she was genuinely happy to be out of the house and said she hadn't been out on a fancy date like that in months. She wasn't a complete noob since she'd been a member on Seeking Arrangements and WYP for a year, but overall just had negative experiences so it was refreshing for her to get out the house and go on a nice date.

Now if that's what a casual user of Seeking Arrangements and what not is accustomed to, what is the average girl on Tinder used to? Step it up a notch and think about all the girls who don't even have a Tinder? Fact is there are plenty of scum girls on Tinder who brag to their friends because they literally only use the app to be taken our for a free meal. Seems like a shit ton of work to be taken out for a $40 dinner by some guy you don't plan ever plan on seeing again.

Now I know I've rambled but what I'm getting at is that I definitely think it's possible to find success DMing girls on Instagram who know nothing about the scene and attempting to establish something. Just message "Hey you're really cute. Have you ever had a sugar daddy?" and it from there -- try to establish trust. Instagram is more useful than Seeking Arrangements because you can get an actual feel of the girl -- see if she has a boyfriend, if she lives a mostly quiet life, etc. I wouldn't waste time messaging girls with 300,000 followers since they are used to flying out to Dubai to perform sexual acts, but there are plenty of "normal" women with 3,000 followers or less who would be more likely to notice a DM from a stranger. The biggest obstacle may be proving you are genuine aka not a scam, but if you have at least a somewhat put together profile and are able to send $50 to prove it then you should be able to drag them out for a nice dinner date for $200. If you made her comfortable during the dinner, you should be able to convince her to come along on an even more fun date the next time you meet and now that she is a bit more familiar with you and what a sugar daddy is, gently ask if she is comfortable enough for an overnight at an upscale hotel (chances are she's never even been in one) the next time you meet. Girls like this wouldn't know that $600 isn't the norm, I really doubt they'd even know where to research. Again, I'll admit I don't have a whole lot of experience and most of you guys are more familiar with women than me, but I don't see many faults in this process and could definitely see a girl who is not at all familiar with the scene being very happy with an additional $600 to her monthly income.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2602573]Found a gem in Buenos Aires where the hooker / club scene bites. But yeah In countries with good P4 P Seeking is really not your best bet. [/QUOTE]Man how things change. BA may have been the best city in the world when I went there in 2004. Black's and Madaho's had hundreds of beauties lined up and my first Latin girl was from Madaho's. I paid her a $100 for the whole night. She massaged me for an hour straight and fucked me all night. I was like "I love Latin women" and have had that loving Latinas attitude every since. It is amazing how far down BA and Argentina have gone. I do not think the culture has changed though and maybe that is why SA could be gold in Argentina.

Dear folks.

I am planning on my first trip to Berlin in a few weeks.

Is SA worth hunting in Berlin. What are my options. I am aware of FKK. But was wondering if there are some places to pick up semi pros. Or meet with sb.

What's your advice?

G.

[QUOTE=RedWaters44;2602910]No disrespect taken, Steve. I know how much you contribute to the forum and always enjoy reading your posts. I have learned a lot from you.

I know it's impossible to find a girl for $500/ month on Seeking, quite frankly if I found a girl on the site willing to accept that little I would be wary. It was simply my expectation prior to signing up on the website. Once I became more familiar, I was caught up to speed of course.

The story I mentioned about models not being paid was simply intel I shared from a high end escort I have met. The reason I shared the story was just to show how much work a model is willing to do in the hopes of making some cash and still end up getting scammed. By the way, the girl I met was actually scammed while shooting for a reputable clothing brand we've all heard of. I know $400 wouldn't make any girl on Seeking Arrangements yet alone high end escort turn her head, but if you take a step back and think about it, to a regular 18-19 year old college girl who barely even knows what a sugar daddy is even $50 is a lot of money.

Which brings me to my next point -- what IS the standard 18-21 year old girl used to really? Matching with boring guys on Tinder who get uncomfortable at the thought of not splitting the check. I met a really cute 8/10 petite 20 year old on WhatsYourPrice last year and invited her our for a dinner date for $100. We talked a bit and she was genuinely happy to be out of the house and said she hadn't been out on a fancy date like that in months. She wasn't a complete noob since she'd been a member on Seeking Arrangements and WYP for a year, but overall just had negative experiences so it was refreshing for her to get out the house and go on a nice date..[/QUOTE]If your goal is wining and dining strangers, you can spend a lot of money and get nothing in the end. Almost no girls is going to sleep with you for a meal. Most will be wary and insulted by gifts. Plus, you'll get plenty of scams. There is no free lunch. The naive learn quickly and the pros will take advantage. Plus, most of the noobs are too scared to be reliable. There are plenty of noob girls on SA. They never go anywhere. Anyone under 21 is not mature enough to understand a Sb relationship. Heck, they can't even drink. I see plenty of girls with unrealistic expectations. You are not going to find a Dorian Grey who will throw money at you for talk. Successful guys are not into entertaining girls for free. Your best bet are countries where sex is more relaxed and culturally a young girl with an older guy is acceptable. My 2 cents.

[QUOTE=Gunners1;2602988]Dear folks.

I am planning on my first trip to Berlin in a few weeks.

Is SA worth hunting in Berlin. What are my options. I am aware of FKK. But was wondering if there are some places to pick up semi pros. Or meet with sb.

What's your advice?

G.[/QUOTE]Your best bet is to carefully select from the online escorts. These will be expensive compared to the FKKs. There are girls on escort sites that are semi pros, but they will expect you to afford a high end hotel and restaurant. The thing about Sb vs escort is a long term relationship. That cannot be done far away on a short trip. It is and will feel no different that an escort to the girls on SA.

Thanks for the advice.

Will look them up. I am staying at the St. Regis Berlin.

G.

[QUOTE=Akibono;2602991]Your best bet is to carefully select from the online escorts. These will be expensive compared to the FKKs. There are girls on escort sites that are semi pros, but they will expect you to afford a high end hotel and restaurant. The thing about Sb vs escort is a long term relationship. That cannot be done far away on a short trip. It is and will feel no different that an escort to the girls on SA.[/QUOTE]

Update, I ditched the Middle Eastern Chick because of her bad attitude and totally laziness. I have been with a new girl. Fun.

But not like the girls from MTY. Saturday night we have dinner on the Riverwalk. My friends totally hook us.

Up at the restaurant, so much fun. We decide to go dancing. She is on the phone the whole time, but still fun. I have not been dancing for over a year because of COVID.

We were going to go home, but we decide to stay a little longer. Starts off great, but again she is on the phone. I finally, pull my phone out and start texting girls in the MTY. She grabs my phone. I say, the night is over and walk off. I forgot she parked in my parking garage.

Uber arrives she puts my hand on her crouch I pull away. No conversation on the ride home. We get to my place and she asked why I am mad and of course denies grabbing my phone,(say it is my fault.) I told her the night was over.

I will never tolerate anyone grabbing my phone, especially not my girlfriend.

I miss Mexico!

American chicks are crazy m!

Just had a weekend with the 7 I met up with. Was a fun weekend in the Netherlands. Only paid her PPM fee 1 x.

Booked a suite for the whole weekend. One bed for the both us.

We both traveled separately to the hotel after work. Had a session. Then dinner in the hotel before having our first jacuzzi moment.

Saturday was day time events. Museum, lunch, shopping (she wanted to buy stuff herself), wellness, a show and dinner. We had sex like 4-5 times throughout the day.

Sunday was sleeping in, aside from breakfast we stayed in the room all morning and had sex all the time, between short naps. Late check out and we both went our separate ways.

SB is not a native Dutchie.

The 8/9 I was planning to meet with was a let down. Reached out to late, then when the day came postponed before eventually canceling because of a friend. Told her, let me know when you got time and I'll come.

Writing this one down as a loss, despite being the SB that I matched on things I liked to do the most.

Since Argentine forum is dead, I will ask here. Has anyone had good experience with SA in Buenos Aires? I know, the country is still closed for foreign visitors, but they are about to open in the next few months. Sooner or later it will happen. The exchange rate is awesome, cash is king if you have USD. Airbnbs are cheap. My understanding is SA works way better in non-mongering countries where P4 P scene is not well developed (Argentina is one of them?) or where prostitution is illegal. Would love to go there once they open for visitors. I've heard BA got great colleges / universities, best in Latin America, therefore plenty of hot young students to choose from. What attracts me in terms of the talent, is that a good % of women there are of German / Italian ancestry, white skin, European looking. What are the going PPM rates there?

[QUOTE=RedWaters44;2602782]Apparently models don't make a whole lot and rumors have it their agents / agencies often connect them with clients for extra income. Curious if any mongers have supported any models that may know a thing or two about how clients get in touch with models agents / their agencies?

[URL]https://nypost.com/2017/08/29/model-reveals-fashion-worlds-secret-prostitution-ring[/URL][/QUOTE]This is not a criticism of you RedWaters, but the article seems to be quoting a silly 20 year old seeking attention. I'm sure models get propositioned all the time. However, the article leads the story with fantastic sums like top models receiving two million dollars per night. Who are these models receiving two million dollar per night? If you've made it to the top of the modeling game, you really don't need to sleep with anyone for two million.

And what man pays a woman, two million dollars for a night? You can have the hottest Euro or American porn star flown to you and spend the weekend with you for a tiny fraction. Or they pull some babes off the beach to their boat or from the pool to their fancy suite at a luxury hotel.

This girl in the article is pretty, but 2,000 pounds for an hour or two? Hookers in Cannes charging 30,000 dollars a night?

This kind of reminds me of the not-so-secret secret book of available Brazilian models, presenters and starlets. You have to be in the upper echelon of Brazilian society and / or have the right introductions, but no one is paying these crazy figures down there.

Hi gents. I'm experienced with FKK clubs and agencies, and now I'm thinking of venturing into the SA scene, it sounds exciting from some of the stories here. I've been reading the forum, and posted my experiences in ISG threads where I have more experience. But I'm having trouble answering some basic questions about getting started with SA. I'm hoping someone can help with these basics. I would have thought there would be a guide that includes these basics somewhere on ISG, so maybe I'm just missing it (where's a Reports of Distinction section when you need it):

1. I'm concerned about my privacy. Do you post your photos on SA? And do you they include your face? Also, do you introduce yourself to girls with your real name? It sounds like some of these SA meets last several hours, so it would be nice to avoid awkward situations where it's obvious you're faking (like if you show your ID at a hotel or something) - but maybe it's normal to have an alias, and the girls aren't phased by it?

2. It sounds like SA girls really don't want to be seen as too transactional, so are there shortcuts to find ones that are more DTF than others? I'm filtering on 'friends with benefits' and 'no strings attached', but maybe there's a better way?

3. I live in a city where it sounds like there are plenty of SBs to be found. But do you have girls over to your own place in your home city, or just get a hotel? I'd rather not be at home because I don't want the girl seeing my personal stuff that they can tie to my identity, or showing up at my place uninvited after we were supposed to part ways. But maybe I'm overthinking it?

4. I'm going to Vegas in a couple of weeks, and that seems like a great place to try SA since I can be anonymous and staying in a hotel. But I'll only have one free night, and it seems like a lot of the SA stories here have multiple encounters to get real payback. Is worth even trying if I only have one night in Vegas?

Thanks in advance for your tips. I'm hoping to have some SA stories to tell myself, to share here.

[QUOTE=NF4591;2603920]
1. I'm concerned about my privacy. Do you post your photos on SA? And do you they include your face? Also, do you introduce yourself to girls with your real name? It sounds like some of these SA meets last several hours, so it would be nice to avoid awkward situations where it's obvious you're faking (like if you show your ID at a hotel or something) - but maybe it's normal to have an alias, and the girls aren't phased by it?[/QUOTE]I use my real photo, with face. Introduce myself under an alias.

What I do is either make sure I check in before her, and if the TV shows my name in the info screen change it. Or at the front desk, immediately say my surname.

Some woman use aliases as well. Others drop the alias after the first meet.

[QUOTE=NF4591;2603920]2. It sounds like SA girls really don't want to be seen as too transactional, so are there shortcuts to find ones that are more DTF than others? I'm filtering on 'friends with benefits' and 'no strings attached', but maybe there's a better way?[/QUOTE]This is really difficult. A signal can be is that she doesn't ask for the money. But can leave an awkward moment when she does.

The majority needs the cash, either for school or other personal still. Might not be the case after you've met after XX times though.

[QUOTE=NF4591;2603920]3. I live in a city where it sounds like there are plenty of SBs to be found. But do you have girls over to your own place in your home city, or just get a hotel? I'd rather not be at home because I don't want the girl seeing my personal stuff that they can tie to my identity, or showing up at my place uninvited after we were supposed to part ways. But maybe I'm overthinking it?[/QUOTE]I keep it at a hotel. Most neutral ground possible.

One SB I had, had a guy at her place. She regretted it. A friend of mine had one at his apartment he rents out through Airbnb, though he has a 2nd house.

I did not post a pic on my profile. I was always worried that a female colleague would see me on there. But if I was chatting with someone and I was sure she was not someone that I knew, then I would privately show her my pic. But I preferred a quick meet and greet if she insisted on seeing what I look like, and I always made it convenient for them, like near where they work or live.

You can use an alias, but use a nickname so that when they discover your real identity, then you can just say you were not really lying. And eventually, they will discover your real identify. I tried being super careful hiding my identify, but eventually almost everyone discovered my real identity, especially if they want to find your identity. I met one gal for drinks, and the next day I saw that she viewed my LinkedIn profile. On our next date, I asked her how she discovered my real identity and she laughed and said it was so easy. I do not want to list the many, many ways they can discover who you really are, because the list is super long, but just know that being anonymous forever is futile.

Do not meet at your place. Eventually, every SD SB relationship will end. Sometimes they end badly, especially if you lied a lot during the relationship. And so why would you want them to know where you live?

I used SA successfully in Vegas, but if you are there for just one night, then it may not be worth the time and effort. You can still try it, but have a backup plan, like a FS MP. Almost every AMP in Vegas offers FS, but I have not been to Vegas in the past three years, so maybe things have changed.

[QUOTE=NF4591;2603920]
1. I'm concerned about my privacy. Do you post your photos on SA? And do you they include your face? Also, do you introduce yourself to girls with your real name? It sounds like some of these SA meets last several hours, so it would be nice to avoid awkward situations where it's obvious you're faking (like if you show your ID at a hotel or something) - but maybe it's normal to have an alias, and the girls aren't phased by it?

2. It sounds like SA girls really don't want to be seen as too transactional, so are there shortcuts to find ones that are more DTF than others? I'm filtering on 'friends with benefits' and 'no strings attached', but maybe there's a better way?

3. I live in a city where it sounds like there are plenty of SBs to be found. But do you have girls over to your own place in your home city, or just get a hotel? I'd rather not be at home because I don't want the girl seeing my personal stuff that they can tie to my identity, or showing up at my place uninvited after we were supposed to part ways. But maybe I'm overthinking it?

4. I'm going to Vegas in a couple of weeks, and that seems like a great place to try SA since I can be anonymous and staying in a hotel. But I'll only have one free night, and it seems like a lot of the SA stories here have multiple encounters to get real payback. Is worth even trying if I only have one night in Vegas?

Thanks in advance for your tips. I'm hoping to have some SA stories to tell myself, to share here.[/QUOTE]

These kinds of dates can happen occasionally, especially with SA gals in the states. I met one gal for drinks and we hit if off. She says let's go to a hotel, and so I book one on my app. As we head there, she sees a strip club and wants to go in and I said sure. At first, we are having a blast in the strip club, and then I notice that she is getting very drunk and she starts flirting with a dancer. At this point, I am being left out and so I am bored. I tell her let's go and she says no. I am getting pretty mad, and eventually a bouncer escorts me out of the club. So then I call and text her, but she does not reply. I tell the bouncer that my GF is still in the club. So he goes to find her. She appears at the door and says that she is staying. I'm out over $500 for the night for drinks, food, cover charges, dancer tips, hotel, Ubers. Maybe it was even almost $1000.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2603323]Update, I ditched the Middle Eastern Chick because of her bad attitude and totally laziness. I have been with a new girl. Fun.

But not like the girls from MTY. Saturday night we have dinner on the Riverwalk. My friends totally hook us.

Up at the restaurant, so much fun. We decide to go dancing. She is on the phone the whole time, but still fun. I have not been dancing for over a year because of COVID.

We were going to go home, but we decide to stay a little longer. Starts off great, but again she is on the phone. I finally, pull my phone out and start texting girls in the MTY. She grabs my phone. I say, the night is over and walk off. I forgot she parked in my parking garage.

Uber arrives she puts my hand on her crouch I pull away. No conversation on the ride home. We get to my place and she asked why I am mad and of course denies grabbing my phone,(say it is my fault.) I told her the night was over.

I will never tolerate anyone grabbing my phone, especially not my girlfriend.

I miss Mexico!

American chicks are crazy m![/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2604029]These kinds of dates can happen occasionally, especially with SA gals in the states. I met one gal for drinks and we hit if off. She says let's go to a hotel, and so I book one on my app. As we head there, she sees a strip club and wants to go in and I said sure. At first, we are having a blast in the strip club, and then I notice that she is getting very drunk and she starts flirting with a dancer. At this point, I am being left out and so I am bored. I tell her let's go and she says no. I am getting pretty mad, and eventually a bouncer escorts me out of the club. So then I call and text her, but she does not reply. I tell the bouncer that my GF is still in the club. So he goes to find her. She appears at the door and says that she is staying. I'm out over $500 for the night for drinks, food, cover charges, dancer tips, hotel, Ubers. Maybe it was even almost $1000.[/QUOTE]Sooner or later we all get burned. I call that the built in price for a SB. You just have to be able to take the loss and move on. The loss of time, money and opportunity is very frustrating. That is the primary difference between a SB and an escort. You never know what you are getting. As you well know, being able to correctly read people is helpful, but you have very little facts to go on. I find the uncertainty frustrating. Some people have backup plans. I find that just complicates the matter. There are just so many duds and flakes. I guess girls with their life in order usually don't choose the SB route. Still, the magic of the find makes the effort worth it. From what I gather, it is probably even more difficult for the girls. People like you who can and are willing to put up money for a good time are scarce. They have to weed through a huge pile of crap and BS artists that either don't have any money or want it for free. In the end, I know I will fail a lot, but I am not afraid of walking away. I know I can deliver the goods and if a SB thinks they can find a better deal with lose in the end. There simply are not that many people with the income, situation, and tolerance of flakes out there to be found.

First, I would log on at different times and days. I find that the SA algorithms is not very good finding girls that are not recent. There are times where the prospects are slim with mainly ugly girls. Other times, it's like hitting the jackpot. Different places have different times. Students and working people will log on the site at different times. Second, that initial conversation is critical. If you catch them online with a message, they are far more likely to respond. That gives you a chance to make a good impression and to stand out. If you are one of 100 message when they login, you will be treated as just another prospect unless something in your profit (I. E. Photo) sticks out. Plus, they may give up after the first 50 messages since they are mainly boring and canned messages. Having a good idea what the girl is looking for is a big help. If a girls profile is very thin, your chances of failure are high. She is either not treating this seriously or putting much effort into it, perhaps she thinks she can get by on her looks alone.

My 2 cents. There is no perfect approach.

[QUOTE=MiamiBoy1;2603837]Has anyone had good experience with SA in Buenos Aires? I know, the country is still closed for foreign visitors, but they are about to open in the next few months. Sooner or later it will happen. The exchange rate is awesome, cash is king if you have USD. Airbnbs are cheap. My understanding is SA works way better in non-mongering countries where P4 P scene is not well developed (Argentina is one of them?) or where prostitution is illegal. Would love to go there once they open for visitors. I've heard BA got great colleges / universities, best in Latin America, therefore plenty of hot young students to choose from. What attracts me in terms of the talent, is that a good % of women there are of German / Italian ancestry, white skin, European looking. What are the going PPM rates there?[/QUOTE]The joke about Argentina is that an Argentine is an Italian who lives in a French house speaks Spanish and thinks he is an Englishmen. 70% of Argentines have Italian blood and 50% have Spanish blood. BA is more white than Des Moines to boot.

My brother said it best, "You can find an 8 in Argentine on every street corner, but I have never seen a 10 there." And he owns property there. The P4P was very developed, and I think that a female president came into power and cracked down on the P4P scene. Now it has moved from the clubs to the escort and SB scene.

When the Peso crashed the first time in 2001 or so, (it was one to one back then and now it is 100 pesos or so to the dollar) prices were crazy cheap, but I am not seeing that now. It is cheap but not that cheap. Hotel prices are higher now than they were then by a factor of 2 or 3. The escort prices I do see are $50 to $200. It is probably closer to $50.

Thing about Argentines is they have a reputation for being snobby with other Latinos. I saw that with some women. They are the most educated in Latin America. Thing is if you want to converse, and you can get into a group, I am sure there would be some great conversations. As for sex, the locals to a man said the best performing women in Argentina were not Argentines but Paraguayans. Even back then, I could get laid at a casa in Paraguay with a hotter girl for $10 or $20 than in BA and I was paying $50 to $60 there.

BA is the only place with enough women on seeking to be interesting. Cordoba is the college town. Mendoza is California like, good wine country and nice mountains, but there were not many women on the site from there.

To me, if I was going for a harem, I would choose Paraguay. Everyone says it is boring in Asuncion, and it is, but I think if you got in a routine and saw a bunch of different woman, it would be a ball. Hell, if I could be Mr. Excitement in a boring town, that is all the better. Asuncion is really fucking hard to get to and I think they have a visa requirement which keeps out the competition. You will actually find more 10's there than Argentina.

I think on average Colombia had less attractive women than Argentina but the best of Colombia beat the best of Argentina. Also, Colombian women are much sweeter. As for the best place in South America for women, it is Sao Paulo hands down. I thought the women in Rio were way, way over rated.

I was in SP in 2005 and hotel prices now are in line with what they were then. The real was at 1. 5 to the dollar and now it is 5. 2. I never had the time to make it down there last year because of work but I actually corresponded with two women from seeking there that I thought were 10's. Maybe as a group the Brazilians do not match the Argentines in intellect, but when it comes to the best of Brazil versus Argentina with regards to sex and looks, it is no contest. SP has more 10's than anywhere else in the world IMO.

A lot of Germans did settle in Southern Brazil, and I have heard the city of Curitiba is well run due to the Germanic management style they have in place unlike the rest of Brazilian government which seems to be chaotic and inefficient. Every time I talked to a cab driver about Porto Allegra, Floripa, and Curitiba, they would say "many blondes down there. ".

Don't get me wrong. Argentina is a cool place. There is a lot to see and do. It is one of the few places other than the USA I would consider living, but for women, Brazil, Paraguay, and even Colombia IMO have it beat.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2604029]. I'm out over $500 for the night for drinks, food, cover charges, dancer tips, hotel, Ubers. Maybe it was even almost $1000.[/QUOTE]Wasn't this just a version of the classic 'overpriced drinks' scam. She will be back at the same strip joint most nights having brought in a new sucker each night.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2604136] I was in SP in 2005 and hotel prices now are in line with what they were then. The real was at 1. 5 to the dollar and now it is 5. 2. I never had the time to make it down there last year because of work but I actually corresponded with two women from seeking there that I thought were 10's. Maybe as a group the Brazilians do not match the Argentines in intellect, but when it comes to the best of Brazil versus Argentina with regards to sex and looks, it is no contest. SP has more 10's than anywhere else in the world IMO. [/QUOTE]Thanks, Elvis, but my question was more specific, I wanted to know whether SA works there or not. I spent 1 month in Rio this past summer, and my experience with SA was questionable. I had only met 1 girl off SA, but it was a 100% hit. All others either flaked, or never responded. Pickings were extra slim, for some reason SA is not popular there and girls, who signed up, are not really active. At the same time I saw plenty of hot 8+ women at the beach, bars, malls, etc, so the problem was not the talent, I know the talent is there, but the fact that they don't utilize SA or Tinder for some reason. My lack of Portuguese and pickup skills prevented me from approaching girls in public. Is it any different in Sao Paulo? Again, I'm not questioning the fact that SP has great talent, sure it does, but I'm wondering if that talent (let's say, of Scandallo quality) could be found on SA? And if so, are they more expensive or cheaper compared to Colombia?

[QUOTE=MiamiBoy1;2604322]Thanks, Elvis, but my question was more specific, I wanted to know whether SA works there or not. I spent 1 month in Rio this past summer, and my experience with SA was questionable. I had only met 1 girl off SA, but it was a 100% hit. All others either flaked, or never responded. Pickings were extra slim, for some reason SA is not popular there and girls, who signed up, are not really active. At the same time I saw plenty of hot 8+ women at the beach, bars, malls, etc, so the problem was not the talent, I know the talent is there, but the fact that they don't utilize SA or Tinder for some reason. My lack of Portuguese and pickup skills prevented me from approaching girls in public. Is it any different in Sao Paulo? Again, I'm not questioning the fact that SP has great talent, sure it does, but I'm wondering if that talent (let's say, of Scandallo quality) could be found on SA? And if so, are they more expensive or cheaper compared to Colombia?[/QUOTE]As discussed previously mostly good places for legal P4 P are poor for Seeking. There are exceptions but that is the rule. Thus SP and Rio will suck. One might infer therefore Argentina is good because P4 P sucks imo. I had an AMAZING Seeking girl Valentina from Buenos Aires. She was Peruvian. We were inseparable for three days and went to the sex club together. One of my top life experiences (later I flew her to London and she dumped me. Ouch). Anyhow only one datapoint. But wowza!

[QUOTE=Akibono;2604080]Sooner or later we all get burned. I call that the built in price for a SB. You just have to be able to take the loss and move on. The loss of time, money and opportunity is very frustrating. That is the primary difference between a SB and an escort. You never know what you are getting. As you well know, being able to correctly read people is helpful, but you have very little facts to go on. I find the uncertainty frustrating. Some people have backup plans. I find that just complicates the matter. There are just so many duds and flakes. I guess girls with their life in order usually don't choose the SB route. Still, the magic of the find makes the effort worth it. From what I gather, it is probably even more difficult for the girls. People like you who can and are willing to put up money for a good time are scarce. They have to weed through a huge pile of crap and BS artists that either don't have any money or want it for free. In the end, I know I will fail a lot, but I am not afraid of walking away. I know I can deliver the goods and if a SB thinks they can find a better deal with lose in the end. There simply are not that many people with the income, situation, and tolerance of flakes out there to be found.[/QUOTE]So true. I got burned once. (Valentina) Learned my lesson. And the amount of work is epic. But having successfully bedded 28 girls on SA in the last two years (with a damn pandemic!) and currently fucking Kayla bareback every night I'the say yeah. Life is good and SA rocks!

[QUOTE=MiamiBoy1;2604322]but I'm wondering if that talent (let's say, of Scandallo quality) could be found on SA? [/QUOTE]Have you been to Scandallo? Having read your posts before, I am a little surprised that you use it as a standard for girls as almost anyone can get in. And why not just go there?

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2604380]So true. I got burned once. (Valentina) Learned my lesson. And the amount of work is epic. But having successfully bedded 28 girls on SA in the last two years (with a damn pandemic!) and currently fucking Kayla bareback every night I'the say yeah. Life is good and SA rocks![/QUOTE]I have had a lot of paid encounters. Most are good but forgettable, but a small number are just so good and so rare. You spend a lifetime chasing more. They may not all be found as SBs. For some reason you clicked. It was the right place at the right time. And she enjoyed fucking you silly. I know a few girls that enjoy pleasing a man as long as she trusts and feels safe with you. They are all too rare and too after taken.

My thoughts:

1. I'm concerned about my privacy. Do you post your photos on SA? And do you they include your face? Also, do you introduce yourself to girls with your real name? It sounds like some of these SA meets last several hours, so it would be nice to avoid awkward situations where it's obvious you're faking (like if you show your ID at a hotel or something) - but maybe it's normal to have an alias, and the girls aren't phased by it?

Steve — I do not have a photo and never felt it a hindrance. The girls will generally ask at some point. Newbies tend to ask early and pros not at all. Tho sometimes newbies don't even ask or ask late because they are awkward with the whole thing.

2. It sounds like SA girls really don't want to be seen as too transactional, so are there shortcuts to find ones that are more DTF than others? I'm filtering on 'friends with benefits' and 'no strings attached', but maybe there's a better way?

Steve — Def FWB is best indicator. You will find girls without that tag that will hook up first date. But FWB is a more sure screen.

3. I live in a city where it sounds like there are plenty of SBs to be found. But do you have girls over to your own place in your home city, or just get a hotel? I'd rather not be at home because I don't want the girl seeing my personal stuff that they can tie to my identity, or showing up at my place uninvited after we were supposed to part ways. But maybe I'm overthinking it?

Steve — Always hotel. Never let a girl in your personal space. Checkin by yourself (she can wait in lobby or show up later) because you don't want desk clerk saying your name out loud. Midwestern is right that longer term girls will prob figure out your name. But still take as many precautions as possible. (P.S. Hotel tv usually has your name on first screen).

4. I'm going to Vegas in a couple of weeks, and that seems like a great place to try SA since I can be anonymous and staying in a hotel. But I'll only have one free night, and it seems like a lot of the SA stories here have multiple encounters to get real payback. Is worth even trying if I only have one night in Vegas?

Steve — Hell yes you can have an amazing one night date in vegas. Best to say you are there a couple nights. But I have had two top 5 SA dates in Vegas. And one was Alexa that I flew to Miami. So our vegas connection was the key to something longer term.

[QUOTE=Nounce;2604444]Have you been to Scandallo? Having read your posts before, I am a little surprised that you use it as a standard for girls as almost anyone can get in. And why not just go there?[/QUOTE]Because I don't want to be charged by the hour, be in a rush, pay all those extra fees to the establishment and fuck in a tiny room. And I'm not a weekend warrior.

[QUOTE=MiamiBoy1;2604598]Because I don't want to be charged by the hour, be in a rush, pay all those extra fees to the establishment and fuck in a tiny room. And I'm not a weekend warrior.[/QUOTE]But it is none of that. Room, maybe but like everywhere else it can be extended and you don't need to fuck in their room. It's a fun place. A little more expensive, but worth it.

[QUOTE=Nounce;2604716]But it is none of that. Room, maybe but like everywhere else it can be extended and you don't need to fuck in their room. It's a fun place. A little more expensive, but worth it.[/QUOTE]I'm not saying it is not a fun place, but my best dates with SA girls beat my best brothels / strip clubs session by a huge margin. Scandallo is a good option for weekend warriors, high ballers or someone who prefers to grab and go, but not really my scene.

I guess SA is not popular in both Rio and SP, because P4 P scene is well developed. On the other hand, in places like MDE or BOG, well known for p4 p scene, SA is highly utilized along with FB and Tinder.

[QUOTE=MiamiBoy1;2604598]Because I don't want to be charged by the hour, be in a rush, pay all those extra fees to the establishment and fuck in a tiny room. And I'm not a weekend warrior.[/QUOTE]That's fair. While the Rio de Janeiro scene and perhaps other parts of the globe have become more transactional (for every hour), some of my buddies didn't like the termas / prive scenes where you had an allotted amount of time in a small room. They would rather chat up the Mabs, Dolce Vita girls and establish a vibe where the girl wasn't running out the door the minute the one or two hours had expired.

I haven't been to SE Asia in awhile, but I've had some great times hanging out with the girls there after the sex was over. I still remember a Thai woman whose looks and body would have competed with Tia Carrere in her prime. I paid her $100 per day and she showed me all over Bangkok. There was of course the nights and the relaxed afternoon quickie between touring. She even wanted me to stay in her apartment, but I still kept a cheap room at a hotel nearby.

Is it still that easy to hang out with working girls off the clock in SE Asia?

[QUOTE=MiamiBoy1;2604733]I'm not saying it is not a fun place, but my best dates with SA girls beat my best brothels / strip clubs session by a huge margin. Scandallo is a good option for weekend warriors, high ballers or someone who prefers to grab and go, but not really my scene.

I guess SA is not popular in both Rio and SP, because P4 P scene is well developed. On the other hand, in places like MDE or BOG, well known for p4 p scene, SA is highly utilized along with FB and Tinder.[/QUOTE]I think it would be pretty easy to establish a sugar baby relationship with a hot Scandallo girl. I haven't because I don't live in Brazil. But if I did, wow have I met some "candidates". Plenty of hotties willing to be sponsored.

[QUOTE=MiamiBoy1;2604733]
I guess SA is not popular in both Rio and SP, because P4 P scene is well developed. On the other hand, in places like MDE or BOG, well known for p4 p scene, SA is highly utilized along with FB and Tinder.[/QUOTE]MiamiBoy1 can you help me understand this, what is the difference between being "well developed" and "Well known".

RIO & SP, P4 p is well developed therefore SA not popular.

MDE & BOG P4 p is well known therefore SA is popular.

[QUOTE=MiamiBoy1;2604733]I'm not saying it is not a fun place, but my best dates with SA girls beat my best brothels / strip clubs session by a huge margin. Scandallo is a good option for weekend warriors, high ballers or someone who prefers to grab and go, but not really my scene.

I guess SA is not popular in both Rio and SP, because P4 P scene is well developed. On the other hand, in places like MDE or BOG, well known for p4 p scene, SA is highly utilized along with FB and Tinder.[/QUOTE]I do not think that is how it works. What is happening in Colombia with SA is the same as what happened in the USA and it happens the same as in business. First you have the innovators and then the imitators and then the idiots. With SA, what happens is that you go from non-pros to semi-pros to pros. Covid did change the pattern in some places like Mexico when non-pros got back on the site after they lost their jobs.

When I first went to Bogota, I went on like 10 dates there, and only three of the women had been on dates before. With two of those three, I did not session with them because they asked for crazy money.

MB, you are telling me it is hardened now and the women only want money in Medellin. What happened with me with so many of the women is that I would meet them, explain being a SB to them, and felt obligated to pay them, but I probably did not have to. The irony is a guy here asked, why did you pay them anything? And that is when I changed my approach and recommended other guys do likewise and pay them nothing except take them to dinner ETC.

Given what you are telling me, I think now there are so many experienced and hardened women on SA in Medellin and so many guys throwing money at them that at least Medellin is at the semi-pro level and I expect Bogota to get there soon too.

Mexico was more like the USA in that there was always a payment described or implied, but there was only once I had sex on the second date, and it was my choice.

In the USA, it used to be that I would see a girl's pic, meet them in a restaurant, and always talk money. With one exception, the sex always came on the second date with me.

Each country has its own culture, laws, but probably the most important thing is how many pros are on the site. I had good luck finding a few non-pros in Medellin but unlike Bogota there were a lot of women who were incredibly short term money focused.

And in Colombia, not only were Bogota and Medellin different but so were Barranquilla and Cali. Both dates I had in Cali were with women who had never had a date before. It is places like Cali that IMO can be SA nirvana. In Barranquilla, the girls were novices as well, but they were more hardened than Cali.

Sao Paulo is not really a sex destination like Rio is. I would expect to find and chatted with women who were hot and not hard core pros. Unlike Rio, I think SP could be great. I am not paying the monthly dues now and just for shit and giggles, I clicked on a few women I found attractive in SP and they favorited me and sent me messages. (I did get a similar response from women in BA). Because Rio and Medellin are two of the most popular sex destinations, I would expect SA to suck because of how many pros would be on the site in those cities.

But MB, I do not think you get the Buenos Aires market. BA like SP was not really that much of a sex destination, but there are / were a lot of pros there like there are in SP. For a few years, it was great and then there was a crackdown, so you have all these people who either know about or were pros that potentially can get on SA and sell their wares. That is not an issue with SP where women have the option to be pros and advertise as pros if they want to. In BA, SA is going to attract a lot of pros.

I do not know that BA is bad for SA, but I could tell from the women I was chatting with that there was a hardened edge that I do not like. Argentina was not at the level of the USA (I don't know if anywhere else is that bad) but probably at the Mexico level of hardened women and having been there, that is what I expected. The hard edge with Mexican women is out of fear. With Argentine women, the hardness comes from arrogance.

I banged a boat load of Argentine women and with most they had an attitude that I should have just been happy to be with them. They do not have the desire to please like Brazilian or Colombian women.

The last two SBs in Colombia I had that evolved into GFs did the same thing when I asked them if they could clip my toenails. I just wanted them clipped, but both of the women went on their hands and knees and gave me like a 30 minute pedicure. I would expect a Brazilian woman to be similar. They really want to please their man.

I think the Argentine and Mexican women would do as I asked and just clip my nails, and I would expect an American woman to say, "I am not doing that. Why don't you pay for a pedicure like I do you cheap SOB!

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2604781]Sao Paulo is not really a sex destination like Rio is. I would expect to find and chatted with women who were hot and not hard core pros. Unlike Rio, I think SP could be great.[/QUOTE]SP is a great sex destination. It took me a few days to find out and now I don't want to go to any other cities. LOL.

If one has never been to Scandallo, how can the person knows what girls in Scandallo look like and uses them as a reference point? That is why I asked. I have found girls on Seeking that are similar to what I can find in Scandallo but personally I don't think girls at Scandallo are that special on average. Right now, there is no point using Seeking when it is so easy elsewhere.

The sex is pretty good even at the low cost clinica / casa. You get clean towel, clean bed sheet, hot shower, GFE. The only difference is the girl's look and they actually look pretty good. Just this week, a clinica girl asked me to lie down after sex and treated me like a baby going to sleep until time is up. I was shocked! This is the opposite of paying more for better service.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2603323]We were going to go home, but we decide to stay a little longer. Starts off great, but again she is on the phone. I finally, pull my phone out and start texting girls in the MTY. She grabs my phone. I say, the night is over and walk off. I forgot she parked in my parking garage.

Uber arrives she puts my hand on her crouch I pull away. No conversation on the ride home. We get to my place and she asked why I am mad and of course denies grabbing my phone,(say it is my fault.) I told her the night was over.

I will never tolerate anyone grabbing my phone, especially not my girlfriend.
[/QUOTE]DF,

The flight to Monterrey from San Antonio on Viva is an hour and less than $300 round trip, and you can go and return in a day. I get the convivence of having a woman close by, but I have done the American route before, and it was fine when I did not know any better, but I do now.

Thing is even after you weed out the greedy ones and the crazies, you are left with women who for the most part have had multiple SDs before. You are always second best, and the women are ashamed to introduce you to anyone. That is fine for married guys, but I had one woman tell me, "I have much lower standards for a SD than I do a boyfriend. " I wanted to stay, "Standing right here, b!" Thing is that she just said to me what most other women think.

For whatever reason, American women are trained to hate things or a group of people like men than an individual close to them like their child or husband. Give a woman a chance to blame anything or anyone other than her or a family member in American culture, and she will gladly do it. I was watching this video and if you go to the five minute mark, you will see a celebrated woman named Carrie Nation who was a prohibitionist and loved smashing up bars: [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAGIi62-sAU[/URL].

It showed me that for forever in our culture that women could break any law and act like idiots as long as they wore some kind of moral cape. In reality, Carrie was mourning the loss of her alcoholic husband and instead of putting the blame on him (and she probably in part blamed herself), she took it out on alcohol itself. "Ladies, you do not know how much joy you have until you smash, smash, smash. " Carrie Nation is not seen as a vandal who should have been locked up for life but a fucking hero.

I assume everyone here knows what machismo is, but there is a feminine part called marianismo, and it is this element where Latin women separate themselves from their American counterparts. You can read the whole thing here, [URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marianismo[/URL], but this is the part I wanted to mention: According to marianismo, Hispanic women should withhold personal thoughts and needs in order to avoid disagreement. Adherence to this belief is linked with significantly higher rates of psychological distress, depression, and anxiety in Hispanic women and young girls. It also influences women to stay in violent interpersonal relationships. Many Hispanic women perceive that "keeping things inside" causes their depression.

You can even see that this crap is written by some judgmental American / Westerner. I am sorry I do not agree that a culture that makes a Carrie Nation a hero is a superior one.

But my point is this: you are fighting a battle that is way bigger than yourself. It is a cultural thing. A woman acting like an idiot and blaming a man for all her problems is not looked down upon like it is in the Latin culture. Hell, in American culture, we celebrate it and reward it and to me, it is fruitless to try to tame that beast.

[QUOTE=Nounce;2604814]SP is a great sex destination. It took me a few days to find out and now I don't want to go to any other cities. LOL.[/QUOTE]It sure is. What I meant is SP is not tainted by the ho culture like Vegas, Medellin, or Rio. There are a ton of hot nonpros in SP.

[QUOTE=Nounce;2604814]If one has never been to Scandallo, how can the person knows what girls in Scandallo look like and uses them as a reference point? That is why I asked. I have found girls on Seeking that are similar to what I can find in Scandallo but personally I don't think girls at Scandallo are that special on average. Right now, there is no point using Seeking when it is so easy elsewhere.

The sex is pretty good even at the low cost clinica / casa. You get clean towel, clean bed sheet, hot shower, GFE. The only difference is the girl's look and they actually look pretty good. Just this week, a clinica girl asked me to lie down after sex and treated me like a baby going to sleep until time is up. I was shocked! This is the opposite of paying more for better service.[/QUOTE]I always said the reason I used seeking is that I wanted fun both in and out of the bedroom. What you confirmed is that Brazilian women know how to treat their man, and they are a ton of fun to boot. I never had a woman stay the night and wake me up with a BJ, and it happened like every time in Brazil.

IMO you would get treated like your casa girl x 100 from a good find on seeking in SP. The only other country where IMO I could find a SB that could match what I found in Colombia is Brazil. Maybe you can find it in Thailand or the Philippines but I have not been there for sex.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2604818]DF,

The flight to Monterrey from San Antonio on Viva is an hour and less than $300 round trip, and you can go and return in a day. I get the convivence of having a woman close by, but I have done the American route before, and it was fine when I did not know any better, but I do now.

Thing is even after you weed out the greedy ones and the crazies, you are left with women who for the most part have had multiple SDs before. You are always second best, and the women are ashamed to introduce you to anyone. That is fine for married guys, but I had one woman tell me, "I have much lower standards for a SD than I do a boyfriend. " I wanted to stay, "Standing right here, b!" Thing is that she just said to me what most other women think.

For whatever reason, American women are trained to hate things or a group of people like men than an individual close to them like their child or husband. Give a woman a chance to blame anything or anyone other than her or a family member in American culture, and she will gladly do it. I was watching this video and if you go to the five minute mark, you will see a celebrated woman named Carrie Nation who was a prohibitionist and loved smashing up bars: [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAGIi62-sAU[/URL].

It showed me that for forever in our culture that women could break any law and act like idiots as long as they wore some kind of moral cape. In reality, Carrie was mourning the loss of her alcoholic husband and instead of putting the blame on him (and she probably in part blamed herself), she took it out on alcohol itself. "Ladies, you do not know how much joy you have until you smash, smash, smash. " Carrie Nation is not seen as a vandal who should have been locked up for life but a fucking hero..[/QUOTE]Agree 1000%. I like San Antonio and it is nice to have someone to hang out with, but it is a losing game. This is why I put very little time or energy into American girls. I just shake my head at the way they dress, there behavior and just there substance abuse issues. 95% of my resources are put into Mexico.

By the way I am looking at traveling to Mexico City. A friend speaks very highly of M. See.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2604781]I do not think that is how it works. What is happening in Colombia with SA is the same as what happened in the USA and it happens the same as in business. First you have the innovators and then the imitators and then the idiots. With SA, what happens is that you go from non-pros to semi-pros to pros. Covid did change the pattern in some places like Mexico when non-pros got back on the site after they lost their jobs.

When I first went to Bogota, I went on like 10 dates there, and only three of the women had been on dates before. With two of those three, I did not session with them because they asked for crazy money.

MB, you are telling me it is hardened now and the women only want money in Medellin. What happened with me with so many of the women is that I would meet them, explain being a SB to them, and felt obligated to pay them, but I probably did not have to. The irony is a guy here asked, why did you pay them anything? And that is when I changed my approach and recommended other guys do likewise and pay them nothing except take them to dinner ETC.

Given what you are telling me, I think now there are so many experienced and hardened women on SA in Medellin and so many guys throwing money at them that at least Medellin is at the semi-pro level and I expect Bogota to get there soon too.

Mexico was more like the USA in that there was always a payment described or implied, but there was only once I had sex on the second date, and it was my choice...[/QUOTE]My recommendations pick one destination and put all his time / resources to finding amazing girls. If you keep hoping around, it makes it more difficult, if not impossible to find the upper tier girls.

It appears to me he Looking for the Golden Ticket without putting in the work.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2605141]Agree 1000%. I like San Antonio and it is nice to have someone to hang out with, but it is a losing game. This is why I put very little time or energy into American girls. I just shake my head at the way they dress, there behavior and just there substance abuse issues. 95% of my resources are put into Mexico.

By the way I am looking at traveling to Mexico City. A friend speaks very highly of M. See.[/QUOTE]I have been going to Mexico City a lot here lately, and I love it. We went to the castle there and the anthropology museum and a female friend of mine came with us. She said it was the best museum she had ever been to, and it was one of the best I had seen as well.

Rents in Monterrey are nuts, but they are not too bad in Mexico City, and I am tired of paying for hotels, but I am almost at Ambassador level at Marriott. Maybe we could split the cost of a place there if you are interested.

We had met in Cancun several times but I was ready to see other parts of the country. We went to Cabo this time, and we loved it. I never had marlin before and damn that tasted as good as the finest steaks. Food in Cabo was fantastic and outside of the resorts it is not too expensive. I rented a car, and driving there was fine.

The two beach areas I have wanted to check out are in Oaxaca and Acapulco, and you have to go through Mexico City to get there which is fine. Even though the airport there is a pain, there are a ton of flights to Mexico City, and they are cheap.

After that I want to check out more areas near Cabo like La paz and Loreto. They look amazing. Apparently, Jacques Cousteau called the Gulf of California the world's aquarium.

I have been talking to people about what to do with my gal. Education visa does not look feasible, so if I want her in the USA, I have to do the marriage route, but people are asking me why I cannot keep things the same. I have been thinking that maybe I could work two weeks here and live two weeks in Mexico. Both she and I are allowed six months per year in Mexico.

I thought it might slow down sexually but it has not. She wants sex three times a day at least, and I have to stop telling her to give me head. She walks in a room and is so striking everyone checks her out, and she still has not asked for a dime. She would literally do anything I want. Anyone else sexually would be a let down after her. Her stamina in the bed room is unfucking real. After a few days with her, I usually get all fucked out.

For guys who cannot be too far away, it seems like Mexico City could server as a gateway for men who want to bring women in from Colombia or other Latin countries like Brazil or Argentina. For the most part, visas are not required from Latin America to Mexico.

Until recently, I had been able to see my gal every 2 weeks, and the distance has not been an issue. When we go 3 or 4 weeks, it has been much harder. Having a home base in Mexico City opens up possibilities.

And there are plenty of hotties in Mexico City to boot. Seeking is good there, but I think value wise, it is the best P4P city in North America, much better and cheaper than Monterrey.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2605141]Agree 1000%. I like San Antonio and it is nice to have someone to hang out with, but it is a losing game. This is why I put very little time or energy into American girls. I just shake my head at the way they dress, there behavior and just there substance abuse issues. 95% of my resources are put into Mexico.

By the way I am looking at traveling to Mexico City. A friend speaks very highly of M. See.[/QUOTE]There is so much SA pussy in CDMX that it is amazing. Last year was there for 3 months in the covid lockdown and every single day I had a new SB ready to meet but I'm not young so 3 SB every week was enough for me. Don't give them $100 but 2500 pesos ($110) plus taxi and she is super happy plus dinner and drinks.

Office Girls.

Nurses.

Students.

Workers.

You name it and I did them and rarely I repeat a girl unless she is super sexy in bed.

Threesomes.

Bi sexual girls.

Everything was on offer.

I have been using SA for a few years now in Las Vegas, Europe and the Middle East. I am still friendly with a few ladies some are still active there. I will answer your questions based on my experience. One of my best experiences was on a trip to Vegas.

1. I'm concerned about my privacy. Do you post your photos on SA? And do you they include your face? Also, do you introduce yourself to girls with your real name? It sounds like some of these SA meets last several hours, so it would be nice to avoid awkward situations where it's obvious you're faking (like if you show your ID at a hotel or something) - but maybe it's normal to have an alias, and the girls aren't phased by it?

My Take on this Always have a photo but you can have one that does not readily identify you and have other private that you can share. Depending where you are using SA remember you will be competing again lots of other men so you need to also stand out. If in doubt set up an alter ego female profile so you can see what the competition is presenting. Showing a natural dating type photo will work much better for you and you can disable once you trip is over. As for you name, if it goes on for a long time they will know who you are so use your first name but not your surname. If using on a short trip what is the harm of them knowing your first name. Like any mongering be careful not to share too much personal info. I have had people threaten to blackmail me but there was nothing to blackmail me for, they were just desperate people in desperate situations. Please remember that the ladies are not always what they seem as well. There are lots of fake profiles.

2. It sounds like SA girls really don't want to be seen as too transactional, so are there shortcuts to find ones that are more DTF than others? I'm filtering on 'friends with benefits' and 'no strings attached', but maybe there's a better way?

My Take on this There is a huge mix of ladies on SA. Some are looking for guys to pay for their lifestyles but will give nothing in return. Some are curious, some are interested in finding a husband etc. It is a number game. Start chatting to as many as possible that catch your eye. I usually ask if they have had an arrangement before and how did it work for them. I tell them I have had a few longer term arrangements to break the ice and then try and see if we have similar interests before then asking their expectation $. This give me an idea of their seriousness. Some say they re looking for $$ for a date. In my experience the $ seems to similar across the place I was $250 - $500 for a date. I always say we should meet for coffee first to see neither of us are axe murderers.

3. I live in a city where it sounds like there are plenty of SBs to be found. But do you have girls over to your own place in your home city, or just get a hotel? I'd rather not be at home because I don't want the girl seeing my personal stuff that they can tie to my identity, or showing up at my place uninvited after we were supposed to part ways. But maybe I'm overthinking it?

My Take on this I have always gone for a hotel or apartment, see how you get on and take form there. If you have a long term thing they will find out who you are but you need to build that trust and remember both your and their safety. Also SA is not about just a hook up you can wine and dine them if you like or even just go for a drink first. Sometimes they are DTF but usually not.

4. I'm going to Vegas in a couple of weeks, and that seems like a great place to try SA since I can be anonymous and staying in a hotel. But I'll only have one free night, and it seems like a lot of the SA stories here have multiple encounters to get real payback. Is worth even trying if I only have one night in Vegas?

My Take on this I used SA for the first proper time in Vegas. I was there for a week. There was a lot of groundwork so 1 night might be too little to get the full benefit but you will still enjoy yourself if you start a week in advance and line up a few people. You may need to have a a few dates as some will not turn up or cancel at the last min.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2605322]I have been going to Mexico City a lot here lately, and I love it. We went to the castle there and the anthropology museum and a female friend of mine came with us. She said it was the best museum she had ever been to, and it was one of the best I had seen as well.

Rents in Monterrey are nuts, but they are not too bad in Mexico City, and I am tired of paying for hotels, but I am almost at Ambassador level at Marriott. Maybe we could split the cost of a place there if you are interested.

We had met in Cancun several times but I was ready to see other parts of the country. We went to Cabo this time, and we loved it. I never had marlin before and damn that tasted as good as the finest steaks. Food in Cabo was fantastic and outside of the resorts it is not too expensive. I rented a car, and driving there was fine.

The two beach areas I have wanted to check out are in Oaxaca and Acapulco, and you have to go through Mexico City to get there which is fine. Even though the airport there is a pain, there are a ton of flights to Mexico City, and they are cheap..[/QUOTE]Yep, it is definitely cheaper then MTY, who would guess that. I have negotiated great rates in MTY, but it might be time for a change. Most of the girls I am meeting are 20-25 and real can not travel or do not want to travel.

I am looking for older girls that have the opportunity and desire to travel. Also, it would be nice to meet girls that can meet me in the states.

I am going for Thanksgiving if you are interested.

Off the topic there is way to much censorship going on this site and some Admin. Have developed way too much power. I follow the rules, but somehow my posts are deleted, because Admin does not agree with my point of view. Total be. S. They let there buddies get away with murder. I am cutting way back on my posts. Midwestern does a great job.

Didn't write this up right after so not my usual detail but you guys deserve an update. And to remind all the newbies that if you put in the work (and have some $ in the US) you can have some amazing experiences.

So Kayla is the stunner that I met about a month ago and liked so much we played bareback boyfriend girlfriend for three days with her totally moving into my hotel. This trip was a quick turn but still awesome.

I arrived at night and we met up at our favorite Asian fusion place. OMG it is so good. Some wine and back to the hotel. It was great to see her and her 10 body so we got right down to business. I will note that we are a shade off of how awesome it was last time. Our kissing is less tongue and she didn't fully shave her pussy. Maybe she's getting a bit too comfy. Don't get me wrong. It was great. But I am noticing little corners cut.

Anyhow the bareback sex was spectacular and her BJ remains awesome. Went a super long time. We talked about how she can't really get an O without a vibrator (not going to fake like most girls) but after a super long time of fucking she had a small O. She threw one arm over her face and then the other and then squeezed down tight and released. After some deep breaths She said what the fuck was that. That never happens. So that was cool. She finished me by mouth CIM and we crashed like big dogs.

Day two she was off work so we were able to sleep in then kick around looking for brunch. We went to the sex shop for a vibrator but she was too embarrassed to go in during the day. Said she has to work up her courage. So I went in and bought her a nice medium size one (no insert. Just clit). Was not cheap but I've decided I'm not going to look at it as the cost of sex which is already agreed but instead treat her like my real girlfriend. And I would do that for her.

Well I was rewarded well for this POV because after lunch when we went to the room to regroup she emerged in a two piece red lingerie with tits pouring out the top. We had some damn fine fully sober sex which I don't do often. So while it didn't last as long it felt AMAZING. Especially the BJ. OMG.

About midway thru, the vibrator had enough charge and we broke that bad boy out. First some FIV and her vibing. She was edging so as to not cum too soon. Eventually we went to the edge of the bed me standing position. This is not only great for not getting tired but she can vibe her clit while being fucked. And oh boy did she like that! Wasnt too long before she had a crashing O. The real deal she clamped her legs closed on me but then literally pushed me out while she crashed the waves. I let her recover a bit and got in some more strokes then moved to BJ and let it loose CIM again. We went to the speakeasy and strip club that night but then just crashed. I was wiped.

Final day we had an amazing canal-side lunch and she marveled at how I am showing her around her own town. She really likes doing the high end stuff. Late night we were both tired (she did a ten hour day on her feet!) and just watched Netflix in bed together and had sushi in bed. The sex was a bit perfunctory but I have to say she was a trooper she was really not feeling all that great but we got down to business and got er done.

Can't say it was as awesome as our first time but in some ways the new comfort level was nice as well. Thinking we are prob only good for another visit or two and onto something new and spicy but damn she's pretty, a quality human, and bareback. Hard to beat. Will just play by ear. But as I've said before fellas SA completely worth all the work.

[QUOTE=Globo;2605384]
1. I'm concerned about my privacy. Do you post your photos on SA? And do you they include your face? Also, do you introduce yourself to girls with your real name? .[/QUOTE]My take on this. I'm always starting with a false name, which I can later explain as being my "school years nickname' but you can now call me BrizLad she prefers.

My fake personal details have been honed over 30 years of lying. I have standard prepared answers for the standard expected questions like, What's your job? How many kids? What happened to your wife? Are you divorced? Where do you live? Where have you travelled etc etc etc.

If the questions go off on a tangent then I will use 'opposites" have I three boys instead of three girls etc.

My pic I source from: [URL]https://thispersondoesnotexist.com/[/URL] . I reload the page until I find a similar pic to me. Similar but different. To be honest, girls that obsess about 'looks' I am not successful with, so this generic pic approach is part of the selection process.

For the girls that have passed the first few meets, then I will open up some more.

As I am playing locally at the moment I am cautious that one of these girls will see me and family in the city streets. Her: "Hey, Jeff from Sydney, great sex, when we meeting again. " . Me & family: no reaction because I'm Brizlad from Brisbane.

Brizlad.

So I mentioned before that I've grown to be quite comfortable with fat girls on SA and in some ways enjoy them as much as fit girls. I suppose I've been with 4 fat girls on SA and have not regretted the experience. Given that finding a local girl where I live that is slim and pretty is tough, I've been dating a fat girl and I rather like her. In all cases they were fabulous kissers and gave a great BJ. And the mechanics work surprisingly well.

Here are the prerequisites though. Must have a beautiful face. Must kiss like a demon. And you need Viagra.

The last two are related. Let's face it you are not going to get it up at my age just looking at a girl and certainly not a fat girl. But when you start kissing and it's really great oh yeah I'm coming to attention. And with the Viagra it then stays up. Doesn't matter that she's fat once you get it going and have a great BJ and the rest as long as you are Vitamin V powered there will be no sag and tap out. Enjoy her like u would her slim counterpart. Of course you have to like her because you might tolerate a slim biatch (I don't) but not a fat one. LOL.

While on the subject I just tried Cialis for the first time. Since I tend to do long weekend binge fucks it would be just a lot more convenient. Sure enough it works so far. Popped it around dinner yesterday and no problem getting rock hard this AM. We will see tomorrow. And same basic side effects for me. Feel a bit flushed initially and slightly off but that fades after an hour or two. I use Lumify eye drops to counteract the red eye and they are amazing.

Good luck with the meds and the fatties out there guys. Don't dis it till I have tried it!

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2606363]So I mentioned before that I've grown to be quite comfortable with fat girls on SA and in some ways enjoy them as much as fit girls. I suppose I've been with 4 fat girls on SA and have not regretted the experience. Given that finding a local girl where I live that is slim and pretty is tough, I've been dating a fat girl and I rather like her. In all cases they were fabulous kissers and gave a great BJ. And the mechanics work surprisingly well.

Here are the prerequisites though. Must have a beautiful face. Must kiss like a demon. And you need Viagra.

The last two are related. Let's face it you are not going to get it up at my age just looking at a girl and certainly not a fat girl. But when you start kissing and it's really great oh yeah I'm coming to attention. And with the Viagra it then stays up. Doesn't matter that she's fat once you get it going and have a great BJ and the rest as long as you are Vitamin V powered there will be no sag and tap out. Enjoy her like u would her slim counterpart. Of course you have to like her because you might tolerate a slim biatch (I don't) but not a fat one. LOL.

While on the subject I just tried Cialis for the first time. Since I tend to do long weekend binge fucks it would be just a lot more convenient. Sure enough it works so far. Popped it around dinner yesterday and no problem getting rock hard this AM. We will see tomorrow. And same basic side effects for me. Feel a bit flushed initially and slightly off but that fades after an hour or two. I use Lumify eye drops to counteract the red eye and they are amazing.

Good luck with the meds and the fatties out there guys. Don't dis it till I have tried it![/QUOTE]Yep, the Meds help. I am on a 2 day binge in MTY. Killing it.

I will not do the big girls, but I will go ugly if they have a nice body.

One girl just left and the other is on the way!

Mexico, Russia Rock! Censorship because you do not like someone point of view is really wrong.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2606363]So I mentioned before that I've grown to be quite comfortable with fat girls on SA and in some ways enjoy them as much as fit girls. I suppose I've been with 4 fat girls on SA and have not regretted the experience. Given that finding a local girl where I live that is slim and pretty is tough, I've been dating a fat girl and I rather like her. In all cases they were fabulous kissers and gave a great BJ. And the mechanics work surprisingly well.[/QUOTE]Hi Steve,

I like your take on fat girls need lovin' too. I'm not being sarcastic.

Just curious, in your opinion what weight qualifies a girl as a fat girl? The term curvy is overused. Some girls who self-define as curvy are two dozen pounds overweight and some are several dozen pounds overweight.

[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2606959]Hi Steve,

I like your take on fat girls need lovin' too. I'm not being sarcastic.

Just curious, in your opinion what weight qualifies a girl as a fat girl? The term curvy is overused. Some girls who self-define as curvy are two dozen pounds overweight and some are several dozen pounds overweight.[/QUOTE]I consider a girl fat if she has folds and obvious cellulite as well as a saggy face. There are many girls who would be considered fat by weight alone, but are actually quite attractive. Pamela Anderson is curvy and Anna Nichole Smith also fits the mold.

I laugh at the guys on the FKK link that brag about the fact they only bang models. These folks pretend to have endless money but troll in clubs. Most spend their time telling everyone how good a lover they are with no details or travel plans. A pure waste of forum space to stroke their egos. A girl with an attitude that does not kiss, with a load of restrictions, is the worst libido killer. Even a fat girl is better if she has the right attitude. The best monger is the one who takes advantage of any situation that offers sex. I know of a few guys that have banged girls all over the world. They include the young as well as the old. All races. And even some less attractive girls.

[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2606959]Hi Steve,

I like your take on fat girls need lovin' too. I'm not being sarcastic.

Just curious, in your opinion what weight qualifies a girl as a fat girl? The term curvy is overused. Some girls who self-define as curvy are two dozen pounds overweight and some are several dozen pounds overweight.[/QUOTE]Yeah let me start by saying I am a big non fan of how fat America has gotten. It's appalling to go thru the Atlanta or Charlotte airport having just traveled overseas at what a cattle call it is. I trybnot to be a judgy human but can't help myself on this point. Kayla and I were just talking about this. There is no such thing as a BBW. Ok some have a damn pretty face but being fat is nothing we should glorify or call beautiful (off soapbox).

I'the say the fat girls I fuck are likely between 20-40 lbs overweight. They are large all over and some places downright fat but thanks to their age it's not cellulite or extra jiggly. I don't think I could do a 200 lb girl regardless of face and viagra. I guess I have a limit at some point.

And yeah In the US "curvy" is a euphemism for fat. I sometimes point this out to SA girls who are just built but put curvy in their profile. because guys aren't fools and screen curvy girls. The built girls usually appreciate the tip. Actually that is how I met my longest term SB Layla. With that opener. Did turn out to be heavy bordering on fat but damn that face could launch ships.

Ps in the end Layla let me video her blowing me and fucking her doggie style with full face. It’s a trust thing u can develop with SBs. Kayla sent me a full frontal with face nude video after our second weekend together. It feels good when u get inside their circle of trust.

So I've said before that staying in touch long term can pay off (like Vegas Alexa nearly a year after first date we did the Miami trip). There's a girl in London I am totally smitten with. We had a one night SB thing in London in Feb 2020 right before the pandemic. We've stayed in loose touch snd I was thrilled today when I sent a clever comment on her WhatsApp new profile pic and she responded back. Exchanged some nice emojis And then just a pic of her out on the town (she's connected to London fashion somehow and is always in some epic venue in an evening dress. LOL). Anyhow just made my day. We are still connected and the post pandemic possibilities are endless!

Reminded me tho of my London dilemma. Have an off the books escort there that seems wildly into me (surely just a great act but I don't push it) So I have this dilemma of who to see when things open up. It reminded me of dinner with her. She's quite the horny wildcat and grabbing my dick under the dinner table whenever the waiter has his back turned. Somehow we got to the topic of adoption snd she blurts out "You should adopt me!. Then you can fuck me any time you want!" Damn I love me a spicy wildcat!

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2606385]I will not do the big girls, but I will go ugly if they have a nice body.[/QUOTE]Oh yeah! I concur whole heartedly. Throw in a good attitude and that's the secret sauce to a great romp.

I love a good, [b]"Butterface"[/b] girl, with a terrific sexy attitude...kkk

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2606363]So I mentioned before that I've grown to be quite comfortable with fat girls on SA and in some ways enjoy them as much as fit girls. I suppose I've been with 4 fat girls on SA and have not regretted the experience. Given that finding a local girl where I live that is slim and pretty is tough, I've been dating a fat girl and I rather like her. In all cases they were fabulous kissers and gave a great BJ. And the mechanics work surprisingly well.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2607022]Curvy Thick Fat...I'the say the fat girls I fuck are likely between 20-40 lbs overweight. They are large all over and some places downright fat but thanks to their age it's not cellulite or extra jiggly. I don't think I could do a 200 lb girl regardless of face and viagra. I guess I have a limit at some point...[/QUOTE]This is a tough one to dissect. I draw the line at "fat" chicks, but I do love "thick" chicks. I find the distinction between fat and thick chicks, is so very hard to explain or describe at times, but all I know for sure is, I sure as hell know it when I see it.

Is there a distinction for you? Or are they both, one in the same to you?

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2607022]Yeah let me start by saying I am a big non fan of how fat America has gotten. It's appalling to go thru the Atlanta or Charlotte airport having just traveled overseas at what a cattle call it is. I trybnot to be a judgy human but can't help myself on this point. Kayla and I were just talking about this. There is no such thing as a BBW. Ok some have a damn pretty face but being fat is nothing we should glorify or call beautiful (off soapbox).

I'the say the fat girls I fuck are likely between 20-40 lbs overweight. They are large all over and some places downright fat but thanks to their age it's not cellulite or extra jiggly. I don't think I could do a 200 lb girl regardless of face and viagra. I guess I have a limit at some point.

And yeah In the US "curvy" is a euphemism for fat. I sometimes point this out to SA girls who are just built but put curvy in their profile. because guys aren't fools and screen curvy girls. The built girls usually appreciate the tip. Actually that is how I met my longest term SB Layla. With that opener. Did turn out to be heavy bordering on fat but damn that face could launch ships.

Ps in the end Layla let me video her blowing me and fucking her doggie style with full face. Its a trust thing u can develop with SBs. Kayla sent me a full frontal with face nude video after our second weekend together. It feels good when u get inside their circle of trust.[/QUOTE]So true, when I was flying back Moscow, I would want to throw-up after seeing the fat American Chicks. You think your airports are bad try IAH, just disgusting. Ladies running around in there pajamas or yoga pants with there fat hanging out. I just do not understand how American women dress now. It is one thing to be fat, dressing like shit just compounds there weight. I wish I liked the big girls life would be so much easier.

I just got back from MTY, 7 meeting in 48 hours, what a great weekend. Included one Anal Sessions, 3 girls did rimming. All others kissing and uncovered BJ.

You guys know how I do not line Colombia, chicks especially girls from MDE, in fact I usually just block them or delete there profile. Any way I met a new girl and she was from Bogota. Great experience, very nice and a total freak, we will definitely meet again. Rules are met to be broken.

This is the first time I have been around a girl from Colombia, that I did not want to kill myself with there crappy attitudes. Another thing, I have never had s Mexican girl tell me how hot they are. Colombian girls are always telling me how hot they are, major turn off for me.

I have been in arrangement with the model for over a year now. She graduated from her Master Program, I agreed to buy her an expensive purse as a present. She is so humble, she never asked what the status when I would buy the purse It ended up being several months, for a variety of reasons. I bought it yesterday and then we went and had a great dinner at S. Prime. It was a great night. Honestly I was happy to buy the purse. She is a great person.

[QUOTE=Spidy;2607044]Oh yeah! I concur whole heartedly. Throw in a good attitude and that's the secret sauce to a great romp.

I love a good, [b]"Butterface"[/b] girl, with a terrific sexy attitude...kkk



This is a tough one to dissect. I draw the line at "fat" chicks, but I do love "thick" chicks. I find the distinction between fat and thick chicks, is so very hard to explain or describe at times, but all I know for sure is, I sure as hell know it when I see it.

Is there a distinction for you? Or are they both, one in the same to you?[/QUOTE]This can be difficult to nail down for several reasons. Different people will have different ideas of what is overweight (and I agree that we shouldn't glorify what is obv overweight), and the baseline from which she deviates to become curvy, thick, or fat. For me, they are definitely different, but I must admit that curvy is pretty close to thick. I have a friend that even mentions "slim thick" as another designation.

Being a thin girl lover, I will bang a curvy girl, but I'd be hesitant with thick and my dick just wouldn't work with fat. Let me add some numbers to it in order to add perspective to my judging system. Take a 5'7" girl. I would say normal thin (like I like) would probably be about 125/130, curvy and thick would sit at 145,155 ish, respectively. Fat for me is hard to describe. A lot comes down to the shape of the back. If the back is wide and big due to extra meat, then that's a no go for me. I just looked up some pics. I would say fat definitely starts around 165-170.

I would probably be able to do a butter face without a doubt. At least this what I think?? Can't remember coming across any recently.

I give you guys props for being open minded when it comes to big girls. It's nice to feel some meat, but how much meat is the question. Hahahaha. LOL.

02.

Hey all,

I am from Mumbai, India a silent reader of this wonderful page! I'm in London from next weekend. I've had my share of experiences on seeking in India some genuine ones some very average or trashy ones as well.

It will be my first time dipping my toes in London and sugaring there some guides or pointers? I've been a student for 5 years previously in the UK so I'm well versed with the city.

All help appreciated and reciprocated.

Regards.

[QUOTE=LshRoomer;2607106] ...I give you guys props for being open minded when it comes to big girls. It's nice to feel some meat, but how much meat is the question. [/QUOTE]Just for the record, "Big Girls", or "Meaty Big Girls" aren't really my thing.

Once again it's tough to pin-point, but for me, there is a distinction between "thick girls" and "big girls".

Fat chicks are fine with me, as long as they have huge tits. Plus, many younger fat girls are firm. It is when they get older that the fat starts to sag. So, a young firm fat girl with huge tits is awesome.

I hooked with up a young fat chick with monster tits several months ago, and I have been trying like crazy to see her again, but we keep missing each other.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2607497]Fat chicks are fine with me, as long as they have huge tits. Plus, many younger fat girls are firm. It is when they get older that the fat starts to sag. So, a young firm fat girl with huge tits is awesome.

I hooked with up a young fat chick with monster tits several months ago, and I have been trying like crazy to see her again, but we keep missing each other.[/QUOTE]I'm fine with fat girls if they have a pretty face, look young and practice good hygiene. I just avoid certain positions like CG. But all things equal, the thin ones are more attractive. I love the way some girls who are a bit overweight think they can get by saying they are "athletic." No I am not looking for weightlifters.

[QUOTE=Ruch888;2607346]Hey all,

I am from Mumbai, India a silent reader of this wonderful page! I'm in London from next weekend. I've had my share of experiences on seeking in India some genuine ones some very average or trashy ones as well.

It will be my first time dipping my toes in London and sugaring there some guides or pointers? I've been a student for 5 years previously in the UK so I'm well versed with the city.

All help appreciated and reciprocated.

Regards.[/QUOTE]I have not had the pleasure of playing in London with seeking but can give some feedback based on my observations on a few girls I know that have London as their location.

Firstly not all girls are based in London. London is a large hub for SB / SD and many girls in surrounding countries and throughout the UK will list London as a destination. With so many advertising in London there will be a bit more leg work to line up some ideal dates. Start early. With so many people coming in and out of London I would expect they are all pretty used to people only in the city for a short time.

I have used London as a location a few times to check it out. Many of the girls are inundated with messages so you likely need to stand out a bit. There are a lot of hardened pro type SB's on the site in London as well as some with crazy oligarch expectations. The photos and such can be a giveaway on who these are so avoid.

There are a lot more kink friendly SB's in London than many other cities I have seen so you could have some interesting play if you are interested in that.

I suppose those are general tips for every location.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2607497]Fat chicks are fine with me, as long as they have huge tits. Plus, many younger fat girls are firm. It is when they get older that the fat starts to sag. So, a young firm fat girl with huge tits is awesome.

I hooked with up a young fat chick with monster tits several months ago, and I have been trying like crazy to see her again, but we keep missing each other.[/QUOTE]Yep, chubby girls can carry the weight. It all seems to slide and even balloon starting in their late 20's. I had a cute friend who was a very busty chubby. By her thirties, the pounds were taking their toll in my eyes. She said guys would still want to hook up with her for a chance to roll around and play with her rack.

If you look at Seeking, the body types for curvy, athletic and average can hold a wide range of types. You'll see thin girls and outright fat girls in all of those categories. The Latinas seem to like to describe themselves as curvy. When by general American standards, some would be considered slim. It would also seem you get a lot of photo manipulation. Faces and bodies look very different from one photo to the next.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2607060]You guys know how I do not line Colombia, chicks especially girls from MDE, in fact I usually just block them or delete there profile. Any way I met a new girl and she was from Bogota. Great experience, very nice and a total freak, we will definitely meet again. Rules are met to be broken.

This is the first time I have been around a girl from Colombia, that I did not want to kill myself with there crappy attitudes. Another thing, I have never had s Mexican girl tell me how hot they are. Colombian girls are always telling me how hot they are, major turn off for me.[/QUOTE]I always found Americans traveling abroad to be nicer. It is like the opposite for Colombian women in Mexico. They are less nice.

I think part of that is the Mexican men are so damned crazy about them. It is hilarious to see them tripping over themselves with my gal. When we go to a restaurant, the Mexican waiters could give a fuck about me. But with her, the waiters are willing to kill themselves if she is not happy.

One Mexican cab driver picked out that my gal was Colombian. She asked him why, and he said her accent. That cracked me up. When I was in Peru, I could pick out the Venezuelan MEN versus Peruvian ones based on attractiveness. While I see women in Texas and California over 5 foot 9 all the time like my gal, I have never seen a Mexican woman that tall. You do not even see it that much in Colombia.

I have seen that attractiveness thing before with Medellin women. It is funny that my last two girlfriends weighed 120 pounds, but one was five foot and the other is five ten. The shorter one was from Medellin, and she was like a 7 beauty wise, but she was great in bed and had a wonderful personality. Thing is her beauty was not what drove me to her, and she was constantly showing me her tits and ass like I was supposed to be fawning all over them. I was tempted to say, "Honey, I am not with you for your looks." even though she was cute.

There was a woman I dated from Bogota, and she would send me videos of her masturbating. She was better looking, maybe an 8. One video would have been nice, but it was multiple videos that lasted like ten minutes total. It was too much and a turn off. I was like, "Honey, I can watch hotter porn than this", but the idea that I am supposed to melt at her looks bugged me. She was adamant that I not share these videos like they somehow were worth gold. It was not as bad as the Medellin girl but it was not good either.

Thing is that I am seeing how different Colombians are based on where they live in the country. Medellin is everything you have said it is and outside of the weather and pollution, I like Bogota better than Medellin in almost every way. Thing is the women I met from the coast, the Costenas, are my favorites. They are the nicest, and IMO the best looking, and most sexual and do not seem to be as cocky. Even though they are in a distinct minority of women I have been with, the top three or four fucks I have had in Colombia have been with the Costenas.

And to me, when I went to Cali, it was like virgin territory. The potential for SA there seemed to be huge. I met a stunning black law student and a white girl with a perfect body (she was a PE teacher) but a bit of a butter face who was on her period. I was literally the first guy she ever gave head to, and I doubt either of these women would have that Medellin attitude you speak of.

For start I want to thank everyone contributing to this thread. I have myself been active on SA on and off for nearly a 10 year period and have gathered many experiences of being a SD in North America, Europe and South East Asia. Still it's always valuable to gain others perspectives.

Through my work I have a lot of business related travel and thus the opportunity to sample many places though often constrained by time. Something that typically doesn't jive well with my love for the girls-next-door that I find are immeasurably more likely to be found as sugarbabies than other kinds of sex workers.

So, I'll just throw out a few points on my process.

1. You have to be willing to spend. I'm wealthy. I'm not saying that with the intent to flex, but rather than to communicate that if you are going for sugarbabies to get your nut off then you need a deep wallet. An SB will typically cost you 2-3 x as much as an escort for the same time. That's excluding the dinners, cocktails and gifts that are typically needed to keep things alive.

2. You have to manage the relationship. IE, whereas an escort might be challenging to get on the hook you won't need any real social exchanges with her once you've agreed to a time, place and price.

3. You have to be able to walk away. Sugar is fickle by nature. While you can find genuine gems among potential SB's that are barely touched and extremely attractive you have very little idea going in what her goal in the sugar bowl is. Many have romanticized ideas about the what arrangements mean. Some think they just need to hold your hand to earn $$, others want to more or less date for several meetings before they commit to an arrangement (IE sex starts). All this requires screening and can be quite time consuming, which adds to costs if in your own work role is billing by the hour or simply have an occupation the requires many hours.

Now any monger reading this might be wondering "why go through all this trouble when I can just get some ass cheap and quick from a regular sex worker"? This is a completely legitimate protest. What you get with SBs though is something different. My focus is on top tier girls that I gladly pay the premium for. These are typically girls that have some profession and are not making a living by escorting / stripping / massaging etc. My roster history includes ballet dancers, ice dancers, models, business owners, photographers etc etc. They typically have in common that they don't think of themselves as sex workers but just need a little help with bills or projects. Some just wants to travel and get a new Gucci bag. In short, this is a game. For some people that translates as a waste of time and energy and I fully respect anyone that won't be part of that but rather get to the fucking / sucking / squeezing without further ado. But I love the game and I play it well.

So even tho the excitement of a first date is great, there are some great benefits from the comfort of a reg. Sue and I hadn't seen each other in about a month. It was great to see her again. She's just so genuine and goofy and so 22. Double edge sword is that she def has caught feelings for me.

We talk about NSA but there is no question she's got real feelings that I need to manage carefully. Got to say it's fun because being adored doesn't suck. Round one was spectacular. She basically worships my dick with her mouth and goes to another world when we fuck. And midway thru round two she says "I wish you didn't have to use the condom" and I say up to you babe. Well about ten seconds later we fucking bareback and damn that was fine.

So it was a great date all around. I do care for and about her so I've got to manage her infatuation but it's a nice problem to have. All good!

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2609168]So even tho the excitement of a first date is great, there are some great benefits from the comfort of a reg. Sue and I hadn't seen each other in about a month. It was great to see her again. She's just so genuine and goofy and so 22. Double edge sword is that she def has caught feelings for me.

We talk about NSA but there is no question she's got real feelings that I need to manage carefully. Got to say it's fun because being adored doesn't suck. Round one was spectacular. She basically worships my dick with her mouth and goes to another world when we fuck. And midway thru round two she says "I wish you didn't have to use the condom" and I say up to you babe. Well about ten seconds later we fucking bareback and damn that was fine.

So it was a great date all around. I do care for and about her so I've got to manage her infatuation but it's a nice problem to have. All good![/QUOTE]Someone is ready to have little Steves running around!

[QUOTE=FRobertson;2609234]Someone is ready to have little Steves running around![/QUOTE]Yeah def not. But touché that I am hypocritical on this topic. A year ago I would have said no way not taking the chance. But here I am a year later having fucked three different girls bareback. To be fair I never CIP, only shoot a small amount about an inch these days. LOL. I did some reading on pull out effectiveness and it's in the 90's when done right. I am pretty sure at my age I am going to do this way better than the general population of horny 20 somethings so prob on the high end of that. Actually my biggest issue is pulling out too soon and losing the shot and having to work up to it again! Hahaha. Didn't have that problem a few years back.

Anyhow it's a good reminder that I need to be careful snd keep my wits about me. And first time barebacking two different girls same month (not sure that's an awesome idea) so I will prob go back to condoms with Sue. She's too in love with me already. 😋.

In my local paper today:

A FORMER elite Brisbane school student from a "loving family" who spat in the face of a cop and stole $1000 from a man she met on a sugar daddy site has received a sentence of imprisonment.

Bridgette Emily Fenton, 19, was immediately paroled after pleading guilty to 14 charges including assaults occasioning bodily harm, stealing, serious assault police, affray, enter dwelling and wilful damage.

The former Loreto College student's offending was driven by alcohol, the Brisbane Magistrates Court heard. The most serious offence occurred in June last year when Fenton met with a man in his Carrara unit after they communicated on the dating app "seeking arrangements", the court heard. After consuming wine the pair agreed on $1000 for intimacy but when the man left the room Fenton fled with the cash before anything occurred, the court heard. Fenton received 12 months imprisonment with a parole release date of Tuesday, taking into account 119 days already served. She was ordered to do 40 hours community service.

Good on the guy for following through and bringing her to justice.

[QUOTE=TheManager;2607734]For start I want to thank everyone contributing to this thread. I have myself been active on SA on and off for nearly a 10 year period and have gathered many experiences of being a SD in North America, Europe and South East Asia. Still it's always valuable to gain others perspectives.

Through my work I have a lot of business related travel and thus the opportunity to sample many places though often constrained by time. Something that typically doesn't jive well with my love for the girls-next-door that I find are immeasurably more likely to be found as sugarbabies than other kinds of sex workers.

So, I'll just throw out a few points on my process.

1. You have to be willing to spend. I'm wealthy. I'm not saying that with the intent to flex, but rather than to communicate that if you are going for sugarbabies to get your nut off then you need a deep wallet. An SB will typically cost you 2-3 x as much as an escort for the same time. That's excluding the dinners, cocktails and gifts that are typically needed to keep things alive.

2. You have to manage the relationship. IE, whereas an escort might be challenging to get on the hook you won't need any real social exchanges with her once you've agreed to a time, place and price.

3. You have to be able to walk away. Sugar is fickle by nature. While you can find genuine gems among potential SB's that are barely touched and extremely attractive you have very little idea going in what her goal in the sugar bowl is. Many have romanticized ideas about the what arrangements mean. Some think they just need to hold your hand to earn $$, others want to more or less date for several meetings before they commit to an arrangement (IE sex starts). All this requires screening and can be quite time consuming, which adds to costs if in your own work role is billing by the hour or simply have an occupation the requires many hours.

Now any monger reading this might be wondering "why go through all this trouble when I can just get some ass cheap and quick from a regular sex worker"? This is a completely legitimate protest. What you get with SBs though is something different. My focus is on top tier girls that I gladly pay the premium for. These are typically girls that have some profession and are not making a living by escorting / stripping / massaging etc. My roster history includes ballet dancers, ice dancers, models, business owners, photographers etc etc. They typically have in common that they don't think of themselves as sex workers but just need a little help with bills or projects. Some just wants to travel and get a new Gucci bag. In short, this is a game. For some people that translates as a waste of time and energy and I fully respect anyone that won't be part of that but rather get to the fucking / sucking / squeezing without further ado. But I love the game and I play it well.[/QUOTE]Thanks for your post. Finally some good useful info on this thread for newbies instead of just a bunch of bragging.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2609421]Yeah def not. But touch that I am hypocritical on this topic. A year ago I would have said no way not taking the chance. But here I am a year later having fucked three different girls bareback. To be fair I never CIP, only shoot a small amount about an inch these days. LOL. I did some reading on pull out effectiveness and it's in the 90's when done right. I am pretty sure at my age I am going to do this way better than the general population of horny 20 somethings so prob on the high end of that. Actually my biggest issue is pulling out too soon and losing the shot and having to work up to it again! Hahaha. Didn't have that problem a few years back.

Anyhow it's a good reminder that I need to be careful snd keep my wits about me. And first time barebacking two different girls same month (not sure that's an awesome idea) so I will prob go back to condoms with Sue. She's too in love with me already. 😋.[/QUOTE]I just remembered, back when I was a little less fat, a little less old, and a little less shy. Just enough to get a genuine girlfriend. (yes, that was years ago, so long I even forgot about it) I used vaginal contraception (spermicide gel, dissolving film) - something like this: [URL]https://www.walgreens.com/store/c/vcf-dissolving-vaginal-contraceptive-films/ID=prod3417675-product[/URL]. Many many unprotected injections and not a single problem, with different girls, too.

Certainly do your licking first, you don't want to taste the chemical, but otherwise it doesn't really interfere with the sensation as long as you get a quality product.

It pains me to imagine how badly could one of those girls mess up your life if she was to get pregnant and go bonkers. Especially if she's US-based.

https://rollingout.com/2014/02/04/woman-uses-sperm-oral-sex-get-pregnant-force-man-pay-child-support/
"In the ultimate case of relationship treachery, a woman collected the sperm she gathered from oral sex on her lover and used it to impregnate herself, then had the courts force the man to pay child support." $800 per month.

[QUOTE=BrizLad;2609516]In my local paper today:

A FORMER elite Brisbane school student from a "loving family" who spat in the face of a cop and stole $1000 from a man she met on a sugar daddy site has received a sentence of imprisonment.

Bridgette Emily Fenton, 19, was immediately paroled after pleading guilty to 14 charges including assaults occasioning bodily harm, stealing, serious assault police, affray, enter dwelling and wilful damage.

The former Loreto College student's offending was driven by alcohol, the Brisbane Magistrates Court heard. The most serious offence occurred in June last year when Fenton met with a man in his Carrara unit after they communicated on the dating app "seeking arrangements", the court heard. After consuming wine the pair agreed on $1000 for intimacy but when the man left the room Fenton fled with the cash before anything occurred, the court heard. Fenton received 12 months imprisonment with a parole release date of Tuesday, taking into account 119 days already served. She was ordered to do 40 hours community service.

Good on the guy for following through and bringing her to justice.[/QUOTE]$1000 for intimacy. What's wrong with some people?

[QUOTE=AmorPorFavor;2609572]Thanks for your post. Finally some good useful info on this thread for newbies instead of just a bunch of bragging.[/QUOTE]Not sure who your bragging jab was aimed at but suppose it could have been me. I have had very great luck at SA and do like to post it here for two reasons:

1. I enjoy memorializing it and sharing it with other like minded folks. I truly enjoy reading the exploits of others and have been told many times people enjoy my FRs. I try to post the good and the bad. Mostly it's been good or great. Long time readers know I've had my heart broken and been taken to the cleaners for about $3000 in wasted spending. But I've shared and lived and learned.

2. I hope that people lurk here and will come to see what a paradise SA can be when done right. Especially in pussy prison USA. If you told me three years ago I'd be extolling the virtues of P4 P in the US I'd have said you were crazy. Now I am the number one fan.

That said if you are looking for tips for newbies happy to answer any questions you might have. I posted a full guide but it's back a lot of pages now but can repost or answer specifics.

I do have to disagree with The Manager when he asserts that an SB is 2-3 X more expensive than an escort. Maybe he had this backwards. Because there is no escort in the US in the 7+!looks category that is going to have dinner, fuck you and sleep over for $4-500 and that is par for the course on SA.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2609602]That said if you are looking for tips for newbies happy to answer any questions you might have. I posted a full guide but it's back a lot of pages now but can repost or answer specifics.
[/QUOTE]Hi,

I just started my membership in SA and currently in Medellin. I feel most of the conversations are going no where when I say lets meet for a coffee and then decide as I am not sure if I would like her in person. So I would highly appreciate any tips on getting started as I am kind of getting tired of the PL and other places.

Thanks again.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2609602]Not sure who your bragging jab was aimed at but suppose it could have been me. I have had very great luck at SA and do like to post it here for two reasons:

1. I enjoy memorializing it and sharing it with other like minded folks. I truly enjoy reading the exploits of others and have been told many times people enjoy my FRs. I try to post the good and the bad. Mostly it's been good or great. Long time readers know I've had my heart broken and been taken to the cleaners for about $3000 in wasted spending. But I've shared and lived and learned.

2. I hope that people lurk here and will come to see what a paradise SA can be when done right. Especially in pussy prison USA. If you told me three years ago I'd be extolling the virtues of P4 P in the US I'd have said you were crazy. Now I am the number one fan.

That said if you are looking for tips for newbies happy to answer any questions you might have. I posted a full guide but it's back a lot of pages now but can repost or answer specifics.

I do have to disagree with The Manager when he asserts that an SB is 2-3 X more expensive than an escort. Maybe he had this backwards. Because there is no escort in the US in the 7+!looks category that is going to have dinner, fuck you and sleep over for $4-500 and that is par for the course on SA.[/QUOTE]I have a message for you.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2609602]Not sure who your bragging jab was aimed at but suppose it could have been me. I have had very great luck at SA and do like to post it here for two reasons:

1. I enjoy memorializing it and sharing it with other like minded folks. I truly enjoy reading the exploits of others and have been told many times people enjoy my FRs. I try to post the good and the bad. Mostly it's been good or great. Long time readers know I've had my heart broken and been taken to the cleaners for about $3000 in wasted spending. But I've shared and lived and learned.

2. I hope that people lurk here and will come to see what a paradise SA can be when done right. Especially in pussy prison USA. If you told me three years ago I'd be extolling the virtues of P4 P in the US I'd have said you were crazy. Now I am the number one fan.

That said if you are looking for tips for newbies happy to answer any questions you might have. I posted a full guide but it's back a lot of pages now but can repost or answer specifics.

I do have to disagree with The Manager when he asserts that an SB is 2-3 X more expensive than an escort. Maybe he had this backwards. Because there is no escort in the US in the 7+!looks category that is going to have dinner, fuck you and sleep over for $4-500 and that is par for the course on SA.[/QUOTE]Sorting through all the scammers, hookers and crazy babies is a pain in the ass. A reposting of your guide would be appreciated, thanks.

[QUOTE=Atxbadgers;2609613]Hi,

I just started my membership in SA and currently in Medellin. I feel most of the conversations are going no where when I say lets meet for a coffee and then decide as I am not sure if I would like her in person. So I would highly appreciate any tips on getting started as I am kind of getting tired of the PL and other places.

Thanks again.[/QUOTE]Sorry I can't help w Medellin — maybe Elvis or DramaFree can. What I do know is that Seeking is not usually worth your time in a P4 P playground like Med. Facebook seems the route there. I am sure you can read more in that forum which is one of the most active on ISG.

[QUOTE=Akibono;2609646]I have a message for you.[/QUOTE]I await your missive.

[QUOTE=AmorPorFavor;2609825]Sorting through all the scammers, hookers and crazy babies is a pain in the ass. A reposting of your guide would be appreciated, thanks.[/QUOTE]I am posting the guide below. I wrote this a little earlier in my journey so I will note a couple updates here. First, prices have gone up. I find $500 pretty standard for a pretty girl in a big city snd even second tier cities seem more like $400. That said the number of sleepovers Ive had seems to also have increased so its really still a very good deal vs the alternative. Second I have found a couple of my great SBs like Mika and Kayla tend towards the semi-pro side in that they were comfortable discussing PPM even used that term. Ive also had an amazing string of black girls of late. I am more partial to Latinas but the black girls seem more ready to get down of late. Maybe its just a streak with me but its more target rich if thats in ur wheelhouse.

And one comment yes it is a horrific pain in the ass to sort thru all this. I am literally on SA at least an hour a day prospecting. It takes that kind of effort. But the payoff is where it's at. When you get an eight or nine giving you a BBBJ, swallowing, fucking you to death and sleeping over then you know it's soooo worth it.

————-
I came to realize through the Thifany experience (also possibly worth a repost - posted this epic about a year ago) that I like more than just paid sex. And in fact I love having a girlfriend. I enjoy texting each other. I enjoy that someone cares about me (even if she's pretending -- just never tell me so!) and of course I love the complete experience of dinners and dancing and just acting like real lovers. Not transactional sex partners. And SB / SD is all about this same experience. When done properly.

So how do you do it properly? I suppose this could vary widely depending on what you are after. But I am after a girl who FEELS like a girlfriend. She's affectionate, appreciates an evening above her usual stature in life, and is able to actually enjoy herself with you. She views the allowance / gift (I. E. Money!) as a bonus. Not the only thing she is after. Any girl where I feel money is the primary motivation and she will go with anyone for a high enough price, gets kicked straight to the curb. She's got to be a girlfriend first, and benefit second.

Knowing that this is the kind of girl I want to attract (and other guys I have talked to also find this persona the most attractive) there is a set of rules you have to play by. Understand that SA is NOT AT ALL like picking up hookers. It is much more like meeting a girl into a bar and seducing her to leave with you. It's just an online bar. Sure you need money, but you also need some distance game and you need to treat her with respect. If you do, you have a chance of closing the deal. However, the moment you disrespect her, she will be gone.

Most importantly, never discuss sex or money. These things will be implied and they will be done offline. Never discuss sex or money on SA and really never discuss sex at all. As soon as you are that explicit, the kind of girl you are after will feel disrespected and ghost you in no time flat.

So start with some light chat and flirt. Your opener should be something specific to her that you read in her profile -- not something generic. And ALWAYS end every message with a question. This prompts her to respond. If you don't ask a question, she will not take the initiative -- the conversation will just die. You have to drive it -- and you drive with questions. Get her to tell you a few things about herself -- what she likes to eat, her favorite wine, dog or cat person -- It doesn't really matter-- just something that will get her to engage a bit.

At some point you will establish that you like each other reasonably enough and one or the other will suggest to take the conversation off of SA and over to text. If she goes there in the first few exchanges, she is probably a hooker. If she doesn't ask for a pic pretty early on, she is probably a hooker. Often, I am the one to suggest going over to private phone text. You can keep it pretty innocuous, saying you notice she is not on often and it might be easier to connect up by text.

Once over to text, you can discuss allowance / gifts (never "her price" or "how much you charge") though some guys leave that for in person dates. Because I am a fly-in guy and want to close the deal -- I. E. Go to the room and have sex -- the very first night, I prefer to get this elephant out of the room before the date if possible. But again, you can't go straight here. Start first with how you see the date going.

I usually say something about going out and having an epic time and if the chemistry is right spending some private time (or intimate time or adult time -- insert your favorite euphemism -- but never say SEX! And ask if that sounds about right to them. Most often they will be down with this description -- I mean we are all on SA for a reason. This opens the door for the pricing discussion. I usually say something like "Of course I'the want to give you a gift. Did you have something in mind?" and the negotiation is underway. As of this writing, with A LOT of searching and false starts I'the say most big cities $400 is reasonable for a pretty girl (lots will ask more) with SF and NYC more like $500. $300 is more like it for second tier cities, and I've found a few gems at $200 (though more in the 6-7 category).

Once you have the "we are going to have sex, right" -- without saying it -- and money discussion out of the way, you should be good to go. Just keep on with the flirty texts without being too frequent, clingy or annoying and then meet up at the appointed day and time. More often than not, if you are not terribly objectionable looking, have a little bit of charm, and follow the "let's get out of here" model you might use with a regular pickup, you will end up in the room with your girl and have a rocking time.

I've tried to be faithful about posting my stories as they occur. But some were posted back when Midwestern started this gem of a forum snd some not all. Happy to post / repost any that look interesting.

Thifany. From the nightclubs of Brazil to dancing in London. My first SB.

Valentina. The girl from Buenos Ares that broke my heart. But not before being totally awesome snd taking me to my first ever sex club.

Vegas. Three girls over five days, including the epic seduction of the "I can't have sex with a guy I just met" girl.

Miami. Early in the journey Colombian hottie.

NYC. Early on. Total SA virgin. Amazing to introduce her to the world.

London Duo. Two for one Colombianas bonus date! (Rising from the ashes after Valentina crushed my heart).

Alexa Miami. Flew Vegas girl (above) to Miami for an epic weekend.

Let me know if any of these strike your fancy and I will post / repost. Thanks!

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2609602]I do have to disagree with The Manager when he asserts that an SB is 2-3 X more expensive than an escort. Maybe he had this backwards. Because there is no escort in the US in the 7+!looks category that is going to have dinner, fuck you and sleep over for $4-500 and that is par for the course on SA.[/QUOTE]As you noted that's an American phenomena. It's rather odd actually as I've found it to be the opposite just about everywhere else in the world.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2609871]I am literally on SA at least an hour a day prospecting. [/QUOTE]Adding to my previous post about prices for SBs vs escorts the above is also something you have to factor. Now I don't spend nearly as much time on SA as you (no judgement just a reflection) but if I did it would convert to thousands of USD in a week if I had been working / billing those hours to clients instead. So I still hold that the cost for SBs adds up.

"Never discuss sex or money on SA and really never discuss sex at all. As soon as you are that explicit, the kind of girl you are after will feel disrespected and ghost you in no time flat."

That's hilarious. Sex for money is the entire point of the site, although some men are stupid enough to pay money for no sex.

[QUOTE=Atxbadgers;2609613]Hi,

I just started my membership in SA and currently in Medellin. I feel most of the conversations are going no where when I say lets meet for a coffee and then decide as I am not sure if I would like her in person. So I would highly appreciate any tips on getting started as I am kind of getting tired of the PL and other places.

Thanks again.[/QUOTE]I could share a few SA contacts with you to get you started, but you need to upgrade your membership in order to receive or send PMs here.

SA in MDE is very though, you can read my recent posts in which I complain a lot LOL.

Haha well I guess it's not always rainbows and unicorns. Got a text yesterday from Kayla. She's hit me up before for little stuff like nails or something. And usually oblige but not always. S yesterday she hits me up wanting something specific for lunch and will I buy it for her. This is more direct than her usual hints. Wasn't totally pleased but it's chump change but I'm busy so I ignore it.

Next day I get an "guess not. Have a nice night" which was pretty bitchy for her. But I think maybe I am just reading it wrong and send her a few bucks and tell her I was busy. But then I find my messages aren't going thru and her picture disappears from WhatsApp. I think this might happen if you are blocked but I am amazed she'the block me over this.

So I let it sit a day. Then contact her on regular texts. Yep she was pissed. Guess it was a shit test and I failed. LOL. Anyhow not willing to give up the 9. 5 bareback Queen over a few bucks so we made up and she apologized and blamed her emotions on being a cancer (lots of these twenty somethings and astrology!

Obviously this is a red flag and I got to keep an eye on it. But I know how hard it is to find a quality girl. So going to bend some. Hope we just put this in the rear view cuz were meeting up again in a few weeks. Keeping fingers crossed. I know I can just next and dig in on SA bit started that today and its tough to find a unicorn like this. So gonna keep it rolling.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2609863]Sorry I can't help w Medellin maybe Elvis or DramaFree can. What I do know is that Seeking is not usually worth your time in a P4 P playground like Med. Facebook seems the route there. I am sure you can read more in that forum which is one of the most active on ISG.[/QUOTE]Nope, not me. I hated MDE, not a good fit for me at all. I love Mxico and Russia. Honestly I prefer American Chicks, to Colombian Chicas.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2609959]
So I let it sit a day. Then contact her on regular texts. Yep she was pissed. Guess it was a shit test and I failed. LOL. Anyhow not willing to give up the 9. 5 bareback Queen over a few bucks so we made up and she apologized and blamed her emotions on being a cancer (lots of these twenty somethings and astrology!
[/QUOTE]Ghosting and blocking are really new tactics that gen x seem to like. Easy way to not have to deal with an issue. For sue it avoids lots of small arguments about "why you dump me" but it just leads to bigger issues.

Anyway girls will ask up to the limit and just have to ask that one extra time to know the limit. Now that she know your threshold you should expect that to the the new normal. It's not clear to me from your post whether you established if she was going to far or she got away with this incursion.

I recently had a local SB in my home town text me that she was in hospital. Next text comes that she cannot afford the hospital bill. I'm not intending to send her anything. Of course I ask how much and she digs a deeper hole for herself. I ask some more. After a while I point out that as she is in a public hospital all of the drugs and expenses are covered by the federal government. Never heard from her again and I guess she starts the scam on someone else.

[QUOTE=AmorPorFavor;2609825]Sorting through all the scammers, hookers and crazy babies is a pain in the ass. A reposting of your guide would be appreciated, thanks.[/QUOTE]Steve has posted lots of great advice on using SA in the USA. I have also posted a bunch of advice in this thread too. When I was active on SA in the USA, I spent at least 20 hours each week on the website. No exagerration. During a 20 month period, I probably contacted five to ten thousand gals, conversed with one or two thousand, and met about a hundred. I eventually had relations with about two dozen SBs, and most of them were great. I would say that it was worth it, BUT only because I also enjoyed the searching and the process. If the search for good SBs is a pain in the ass for you, then SA in the USA may not be ideal for you.

[QUOTE=JackMiami;2609911]"Never discuss sex or money on SA and really never discuss sex at all. As soon as you are that explicit, the kind of girl you are after will feel disrespected and ghost you in no time flat."

That's hilarious. Sex for money is the entire point of the site, although some men are stupid enough to pay money for no sex.[/QUOTE]Some of the SBs are on that site to provide a relationship for money, not just sex. Of course, sex should be part of the relationship. If one was merely just looking for sex, then SA is not ideal, expecially in places where pros are readily and easiily available.

[QUOTE=Atxbadgers;2609613]Hi,

I just started my membership in SA and currently in Medellin. I feel most of the conversations are going no where when I say lets meet for a coffee and then decide as I am not sure if I would like her in person. So I would highly appreciate any tips on getting started as I am kind of getting tired of the PL and other places.

Thanks again.[/QUOTE]It sounds like you are being too picky. Filter to what you like and sent out a massive number of PMs to the women your filters allow. Use the PM service on SA to get their whatsapp number. Text them and see if they respond. It is good you are meeting at Starbucks. Once you have more dates than you have time in the day, that is when you cut back and be selective. I try not to mention money but sometimes you have to. If I was not pressed for time like you seemed to be. I would do a meet and greet first and then talk sex / price later. You can use the line that you are not supposed to talk money on SA or that you do not know what she really looks like. If the woman wants money just to meet, she is a ho and proceed like she is. If she is hesitant, and you really want to meet her, you may want to throw out a few bucks just for transportation only.

You are looking at the meetups as whether you want to have sex with said women, but you shouldn't look at them just for that. Look at it as a chance to improve your game. I had my sales pitch down so well that a woman would be a fool to turn me down, and I only had to go it rarely because the women could typically see what I offered them as a person. When I did my sales pitch, I told them what being a SB of mine meant and it would be life changing to them. I was giving them the impression that I was choosing them more than they were choosing me and in most cases in Colombia, I was.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2610007]Some of the SBs are on that site to provide a relationship for money, not just sex. Of course, sex should be part of the relationship. If one was merely just looking for sex, then SA is not ideal, expecially in places where pros are readily and easiily available.[/QUOTE]Of course. Most of the women would be thrilled to provide a paid "relationship" with their old shlubby clients than have sex with them. My point was just that no one should pretend that the women on these sites are anything other than prostitutes. In a lot of ways, these women are worse than prostitutes.

So I am planning a trip to Barcelona and doing my SA groundwork and pre trip (connections). So far it is quite different from what I was expecting. Lots of solid 9+ SB's and quite a few Pro's. I have been using SA for quite a while in many other countries. It has been interesting because virtually none have mentioned $ or PPM yet. Likewise I am avoiding this. The (+ are super interesting and very tempting but in my experience you get a smoking body and envious looks from others but the don't put as much effort into the action. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Just wondering if any of you have played in Barcelona and have any tips? I like to go for nice dinner and drinks so suggestions on this would be fantastic. I am planning to get an apartment as Hotels are typically a mixed bag and the better ones are far from most things. I prefer to get a suite or Junior suite and they don't seem worth it in BCN.

[QUOTE=JackMiami;2610218]Of course. Most of the women would be thrilled to provide a paid "relationship" with their old shlubby clients than have sex with them. My point was just that no one should pretend that the women on these sites are anything other than prostitutes. In a lot of ways, these women are worse than prostitutes.[/QUOTE]Spoken like someone who has never had an SB! No need to spread your hate in here. Lots of other forums for you to share your "insights"!

When I go travelling I always do advanced research and contact though SA. It is a number game as we all know. Inevitably schedules do not match and we can miss meeting people we would like to. Well I had wonderful proof of how the long game can work this week. I was in contact with a beautiful lady when I was travelling to Dubai last year. We had a good back and forth over messaging and got a great vibe. Unfortunately our scheduled would not work to meet due to work and travel. It was a real bummer but these thing happen.

I always play the long game with people I hit it off with someone. You never know when your paths may cross again. And randomly they crossed this week. She happened to be here in my home city on a trip with a friend. She updated we SA profile in the hope of meeting someone whilst here for the few days. I was super busy but did reach out and say Hi and gave her some recommendations on placed to go and things to do. One evening I finished up late and messaged her to complain how long my day was and see how her day had gone. She said she had planned to meet someone for a coffee earlier and they were a no show so she was really pissed. She said call over for a drink to her hotel she was still annoyed and said a drink was needed. 5 minutes later there I was. And oh my god she was so much prettier than the photos a solid 9+ with a fantastic fun personality and attitude. After a few drinks and flirting we retired for some private fun. In the past I have found 9+ to be amazing to look at but put zero effort into any fun. Well this lady was a total firecracker. Massage to begin and some amazing action. She was down for almost anything. Spent the night and had fun again in the morning.

Contribution €300 and already planning to meet again. Where else can you get this.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2610294]Spoken like someone who has never had an SB! No need to spread your hate in here. Lots of other forums for you to share your "insights"![/QUOTE]I didn't post any "hate. " Looks like I hit a nerve.

Stop paying and see how long your "relationships" continue.

[QUOTE=Globo;2610423]When I go travelling I always do advanced research and contact though SA. It is a number game as we all know. Inevitably schedules do not match and we can miss meeting people we would like to. Well I had wonderful proof of how the long game can work this week. I was in contact with a beautiful lady when I was travelling to Dubai last year. We had a good back and forth over messaging and got a great vibe. Unfortunately our scheduled would not work to meet due to work and travel. It was a real bummer but these thing happen.

I always play the long game with people I hit it off with someone. You never know when your paths may cross again. And randomly they crossed this week. She happened to be here in my home city on a trip with a friend. She updated we SA profile in the hope of meeting someone whilst here for the few days. I was super busy but did reach out and say Hi and gave her some recommendations on placed to go and things to do. One evening I finished up late and messaged her to complain how long my day was and see how her day had gone. She said she had planned to meet someone for a coffee earlier and they were a no show so she was really pissed. She said call over for a drink to her hotel she was still annoyed and said a drink was needed. 5 minutes later there I was. And oh my god she was so much prettier than the photos a solid 9+ with a fantastic fun personality and attitude. After a few drinks and flirting we retired for some private fun. In the past I have found 9+ to be amazing to look at but put zero effort into any fun. Well this lady was a total firecracker. Massage to begin and some amazing action. She was down for almost anything. Spent the night and had fun again in the morning.

Contribution 300 and already planning to meet again. Where else can you get this.[/QUOTE]Exactly. The summary:

1. You can get an amazing combo of looks, service, and romance if you put in the time.

2. Keep the Rolodex full. You never know when the girl roulette wheel will smile on you.

[QUOTE=JackMiami;2610218]Of course. Most of the women would be thrilled to provide a paid "relationship" with their old shlubby clients than have sex with them. My point was just that no one should pretend that the women on these sites are anything other than prostitutes. In a lot of ways, these women are worse than prostitutes.[/QUOTE]It sounds that you are doing a log of symantics without noticing that you replaced "some"with "most" yourselves.

What do you use as arguments for determing SBs as "worse"?

I would suggest that you have limited if any insight in the SD / SB scene.

Feel free to prove me wrong.

My experience is that both SBs and SDs can find relationships they couldn't dream about. ThaT said, there is for sure some individuals in these sites who should be elsewhere. Maybe you are talking about them?

[QUOTE=BlueSwede;2610524]It sounds that you are doing a log of symantics without noticing that you replaced "some"with "most" yourselves.

What do you use as arguments for determing SBs as "worse"?

I would suggest that you have limited if any insight in the SD / SB scene.

Feel free to prove me wrong.

My experience is that both SBs and SDs can find relationships they couldn't dream about. ThaT said, there is for sure some individuals in these sites who should be elsewhere. Maybe you are talking about them?[/QUOTE]It's really funny how upset some of you guys are getting.

I said the women on these sites are worse than prostitutes because prostitutes are at least honest about who they are and what's happening.

If guys want to fool themselves into believing that they're seducing incredible women and that they're really only giving "gifts" instead of a fee, that's their (unfortunate and sad) business. But the rest of us are free to laugh at the absurdity of it.

As I said earlier, stop paying and see how long any of these "relationships" last.

I kinda like that I can treat my girls to experiences they might not get in their regular lives. And rarely but sometimes it's reciprocated. Like Valentina took me to the swingers club in Buenos Aires and wow was that fun. Doesn't suck to have the prettiest girl in the club either.

Well what do you know. There are swingers clubs in Florida and frankly they look pretty great. Kayla has been snd going to introduce me when we meet up. It looks super fun and classy (like they separate couples and single ladies from the single dudes and have some nights where no extra dudes allowed period). Looks amazing and she recommends it. Can't wait.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2610620]I kinda like that I can treat my girls to experiences they might not get in their regular lives. And rarely but sometimes it's reciprocated. Like Valentina took me to the swingers club in Buenos Aires and wow was that fun. Doesn't suck to have the prettiest girl in the club either.

Well what do you know. There are swingers clubs in Florida and frankly they look pretty great. Kayla has been snd going to introduce me when we meet up. It looks super fun and classy (like they separate couples and single ladies from the single dudes and have some nights where no extra dudes allowed period). Looks amazing and she recommends it. Can't wait.[/QUOTE]My fondest memories are from my younger years at swingers clubs. The visuals vary, but the sex, if it can be found is mind blowing. Help her find that kink you have been missing.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2610620]I kinda like that I can treat my girls to experiences they might not get in their regular lives. And rarely but sometimes it's reciprocated. Like Valentina took me to the swingers club in Buenos Aires and wow was that fun. Doesn't suck to have the prettiest girl in the club either.

Well what do you know. There are swingers clubs in Florida and frankly they look pretty great. Kayla has been snd going to introduce me when we meet up. It looks super fun and classy (like they separate couples and single ladies from the single dudes and have some nights where no extra dudes allowed period). Looks amazing and she recommends it. Can't wait.[/QUOTE]I'm fairly experienced in the swing scene and Trapeze in Ft. Lauderdale is probably the best I've been to. Bear in mind, the social dynamic is pretty much the same everywhere. Couples are mostly older (like 40's), while the younger, better looking couples tend to be cliquish and stand-offish. That said, the magical charm is always the unicorn (pretty young girl), so if you bring that with you, you have your opening. But, you still must be sociable, dress well, and be attractive to the ladies of the other couples. Even then, you might just wind up playing with your own partner in the back rooms, which still can be fun, especially if you like voyeurism and exhibitionism, or just enjoy being surrounded by sexual energy (as I do). These events are not free-for-all, random-swapping orgies like you see in porn. Furthermore, the best events are private house or hotel parties, not the clubs in my opinion, but when you go to a club in a new town, ask around and find out who runs the best events and get into the inner circle. It's not that hard (again, if you have that unicorn).

Some events allow single men, and I avoid those like the plague. Trapeze allows them on Friday nights and I made the mistake of going earlier this year with a very sexy girl. I was fighting off packs of hyenas all night long, and eventually had to have one relentless stalker removed from the club. Saturday nights (at most clubs around the country) are usually reserved for couples and single women only, so that's when I'd choose to go.

[QUOTE=JackMiami;2610546]It's really funny how upset some of you guys are getting.

I said the women on these sites are worse than prostitutes because prostitutes are at least honest about who they are and what's happening.

If guys want to fool themselves into believing that they're seducing incredible women and that they're really only giving "gifts" instead of a fee, that's their (unfortunate and sad) business. But the rest of us are free to laugh at the absurdity of it.

As I said earlier, stop paying and see how long any of these "relationships" last.[/QUOTE]Go ahead and laugh from the sidelines then, and keep posting your misogynist observations of no consequence here. Your theme has been said countless times on the other SB boards, and usually from a poster that complains about getting banned from SA. If you're convinced they're all prostitutes, then the ones on there will find you and vice versa (there are indeed some, no doubt). And then eventually, the moderators will find you both too. Furthermore, I'm glad there are people like you on the site (as long as you manage to last), as it makes it so much easier for me to stand out with the genuine girl-next-door. Heard many times: "You're the first guy I met because you didn't sound like a creep". Well that was pretty easy.

[QUOTE=CarloRogue;2610793]Heard many times: "You're the first guy I met because you didn't sound like a creep". Well that was pretty easy.[/QUOTE]A lot of women use this line on guys, so please do not be fooled. Women have told me this a lot; do not underestimate how cunny these ladies can be.

[QUOTE=CarloRogue;2610793]Go ahead and laugh from the sidelines then, and keep posting your misogynist observations of no consequence here. Your theme has been said countless times on the other SB boards, and usually from a poster that complains about getting banned from SA. If you're convinced they're all prostitutes, then the ones on there will find you and vice versa (there are indeed some, no doubt). And then eventually, the moderators will find you both too. Furthermore, I'm glad there are people like you on the site (as long as you manage to last), as it makes it so much easier for me to stand out with the genuine girl-next-door. Heard many times: "You're the first guy I met because you didn't sound like a creep". Well that was pretty easy.[/QUOTE]Yep, it all boils down to jealousy. Trust me we all pay for girls one way or another. If I miss a day of work, it costs me at least $700-1000 and most of that is profit. My main crew are all-stars, but when I am not there things change. So if I am flying or driving all over the world it does cost money, even if I do not pay directly. Honestly the guys that make more money pay more, because they miss work. Guys, can call it whatever they want, but we all pay and married guys usually pay way more!

I agree there is a lot of b. S on SA especially in the States, but you can find some real great girls. Midw. Gave some great advice, "enjoy the search", but do not waste too much time on it. Devote 30-60 minutes a day. Nothing wrong with meeting someone for a drink or coffee, maybe something good will develop. Just never pre-pay and you will be fine.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2610006]Steve has posted lots of great advice on using SA in the USA. I have also posted a bunch of advice in this thread too. When I was active on SA in the USA, I spent at least 20 hours each week on the website. No exagerration. During a 20 month period, I probably contacted five to ten thousand gals, conversed with one or two thousand, and met about a hundred. I eventually had relations with about two dozen SBs, and most of them were great. I would say that it was worth it, BUT only because I also enjoyed the searching and the process. If the search for good SBs is a pain in the ass for you, then SA in the USA may not be ideal for you.[/QUOTE]Great, post! I agree the Search sometimes is the best part.

[QUOTE=Shyzai;2610817]A lot of women use this line on guys, so please do not be fooled. Women have told me this a lot; do not underestimate how cunny these ladies can be.[/QUOTE]I don't care what women say (hence my rule #2: never believe what a sugar baby says). You've made a big mistake if you've put yourself in a position to trust a sugar baby. But this is not to say I hate women. I only care if they (1) show up, (2) look reasonably like their pics, (3) are fun on some level. They can tell me whatever stories they want, whatever helps them in the moment feel good about themselves, while I smile and nod along.

[QUOTE=CarloRogue;2610790]I'm fairly experienced in the swing scene and Trapeze in Ft. Lauderdale is probably the best I've been to. Bear in mind, the social dynamic is pretty much the same everywhere. Couples are mostly older (like 40's), while the younger, better looking couples tend to be cliquish and stand-offish. That said, the magical charm is always the unicorn (pretty young girl), so if you bring that with you, you have your opening. But, you still must be sociable, dress well, and be attractive to the ladies of the other couples. Even then, you might just wind up playing with your own partner in the back rooms, which still can be fun, especially if you like voyeurism and exhibitionism, or just enjoy being surrounded by sexual energy (as I do). These events are not free-for-all, random-swapping orgies like you see in porn. Furthermore, the best events are private house or hotel parties, not the clubs in my opinion, but when you go to a club in a new town, ask around and find out who runs the best events and get into the inner circle. It's not that hard (again, if you have that unicorn).

Some events allow single men, and I avoid those like the plague. Trapeze allows them on Friday nights and I made the mistake of going earlier this year with a very sexy girl. I was fighting off packs of hyenas all night long, and eventually had to have one relentless stalker removed from the club. Saturday nights (at most clubs around the country) are usually reserved for couples and single women only, so that's when I'd choose to go.[/QUOTE]Wow. I guess I shouldn't be surprised to find a senior ISG member who knows this scene but I am stunned this scene exists. We are def going on a no single guys night. But Kayla is legit finest overall body I've ever been with and a super pretty face. She warned me all the guys will be eye fucking her and I'm ok w that.

Our plan at this point is to stay one on one (this is what Valentina and I did). I don't think I'the be averse to a swap with a hot couple but we will see — esp since only half our couple is hot. LOL. Kayla is bi so no issue if she wants to make out a girl or eat pussy while I pound her. I'm truly excited and was already excited!

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2610924]Wow. I guess I shouldn't be surprised to find a senior ISG member who knows this scene but I am stunned this scene exists. We are def going on a no single guys night. But Kayla is legit finest overall body I've ever been with and a super pretty face. She warned me all the guys will be eye fucking her and I'm ok w that.

Our plan at this point is to stay one on one (this is what Valentina and I did). I don't think I'the be averse to a swap with a hot couple but we will see esp since only half our couple is hot. LOL. Kayla is bi so no issue if she wants to make out a girl or eat pussy while I pound her. I'm truly excited and was already excited![/QUOTE]Swinging never occurred to me. Did not know that was still alive and well. I wonder how one gets into the scene. How did Kayla find out about it? Also, do you think it would be okay to get contacts while you are there? Will it be free to attend? Will some gals charge per hookup? I am intrigued. Cannot wait for your report about it.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2610924]Wow. I guess I shouldn't be surprised to find a senior ISG member who knows this scene but I am stunned this scene exists. We are def going on a no single guys night. But Kayla is legit finest overall body I've ever been with and a super pretty face. She warned me all the guys will be eye fucking her and I'm ok w that.

Our plan at this point is to stay one on one (this is what Valentina and I did). I don't think I'the be averse to a swap with a hot couple but we will see esp since only half our couple is hot. LOL. Kayla is bi so no issue if she wants to make out a girl or eat pussy while I pound her. I'm truly excited and was already excited![/QUOTE]If you bring your own gal and she is hot, you will not have problems with other couples. They are there for the experience and money is never mentioned. Generally, the girls decide who to go with and what they will do. So, if you find a bi your girl will be in heaven. If the man likes your girl, he will encourage her to swap to get access to your girl. Having a hot girl is the key. It is ok for couples that like each other to exchange information for meetings outside the clubs for more privacy. In general, it is ok to talk with other couple, but no to annoy others. Years ago there was a nude beach in Miami where voyeurs and swingers hang out.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2610957]Swinging never occurred to me. Did not know that was still alive and well. I wonder how one gets into the scene. How did Kayla find out about it? Also, do you think it would be okay to get contacts while you are there? Will it be free to attend? Will some gals charge per hookup? I am intrigued. Cannot wait for your report about it.[/QUOTE]Just like the sugar scene, there are rules to learn. Think hedonism to excess. It is guys that like variety and strange. It is girls with more libido than their husbands or boyfriends can handle. It is couples indulging their fantasies. Unlike the EU, there are no hookers and very few single women. There is usually a cover charge for the host and to weed out the undesirable. Exchanging contact info is part of the purpose. The scene is for meeting like minded people into sex. Voyeurism an exhibitionism is more common than swapping. A gangbang is not unusual.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2610957]Swinging never occurred to me. Did not know that was still alive and well. I wonder how one gets into the scene. How did Kayla find out about it? Also, do you think it would be okay to get contacts while you are there? Will it be free to attend? Will some gals charge per hookup? I am intrigued. Cannot wait for your report about it.[/QUOTE]I don't know how she found the scene. I assumed her prior SD but could have been a hundred other ways for a 23 year old hottie. It's funny because it's completely above board because it doesn't touch any of the laws. It's a BYOB membership club (they used to do this in Texas to skirt drinking laws) and they don't serve alcohol but have bar tenders to mix what you bring.

They have couples prices and single lady and single guy prices. For example couples have a $60 a month membership and a per visit fee of $50-100 depending on day of week. It's all well constructed and professional. The "membership club" seems the key to the whole thing. Of course you can become a member day of visit.

Think going as a couple is a totally different thing. Apparently the singles section can be like a bunch of flies around a honey pot. Course the flies are jacking their dicks. LOL.

[QUOTE=JackMiami;2610546]As I said earlier, stop paying and see how long any of these "relationships" last.[/QUOTE]I've transitioned 3 SBs into regular girlfriends. My longest is 18 months.

You are telling us something about yourself, and your (in) ability to keep women.

I had cancelled the automatic renewal of my Premium membership (mistake? A couple of day ago, the membership ended and I then tried to renew it via Google subcriptions, which seemed to went fine. BUT (my membership is still on Standard! I have tried to contact Seeking, but no replies! Anyone having any idea?

Lately, it is not possible to extend using credit card, I have used that method earlier without problems.

In connection with this, I have a problem to continue an ongoing conversation with a girl. Someone having Premium that can help me out?

[QUOTE=BlueSwede;2611661]I had cancelled the automatic renewal of my Premium membership (mistake? A couple of day ago, the membership ended and I then tried to renew it via Google subcriptions, which seemed to went fine. BUT (my membership is still on Standard! I have tried to contact Seeking, but no replies! Anyone having any idea?

Lately, it is not possible to extend using credit card, I have used that method earlier without problems.

In connection with this, I have a problem to continue an ongoing conversation with a girl. Someone having Premium that can help me out?[/QUOTE]Some Swedish banks and card issuers have SA blocked for purchases. Nordea should be fine but SEB has them blacklisted. I tried buying a subscription once with Eurobonus Mastercard which resulted in the card being temporarily blocked.

[QUOTE=BlueSwede;2611661]I had cancelled the automatic renewal of my Premium membership (mistake? A couple of day ago, the membership ended and I then tried to renew it via Google subcriptions, which seemed to went fine. BUT (my membership is still on Standard! I have tried to contact Seeking, but no replies! Anyone having any idea?

Lately, it is not possible to extend using credit card, I have used that method earlier without problems.

In connection with this, I have a problem to continue an ongoing conversation with a girl. Someone having Premium that can help me out?[/QUOTE]Sent you a private message, hope I can help.

So I have my local girl Sue who is sweet and goofy and barebacked me on our most recent date. But she's fat and pokes me for money, so I am always on the prowl for something better. Usually leads no where, but out of the blue I hit a home run.

Struck up a conversation with a girl with a hot chest, unknown total bod, and a pretty plain Jane face. But she's fun to chat with and quick to meetup. Says she's a medical student. Of course I think this is BS but turns out to be totally true.

During chat she's pretty darn straightforward as to why we are here. Like asking if we are going to my place or a hotel. Hahaha. And then on the way to the date she says I should bring my own condoms case hers don't fit. LOL. Ok not much pretense here.

So she shows up a bit late but gentleman that I am I have a drink waiting and damn she's MUCH prettier than her pics. Beautiful smile and dressed quite slutty. Dinner is actually amazing. She is a great conversationalist and clearly well educated. Her father is a doctor and she's lived in London, the Caribbean and Hawaii. At 25 you would think this is BS but every word is true and the pics to prove it (after sex stay tuned!)

After dinner we walk to the convenience store and get some Palomas in cans and a Juul for her. And rock on to the room. Like this girls style. Because she sits in the bed and gives me the come hither look. I join on the bed and am about to kiss her when she hikes up her leather skirt and has no panties on and a beautiful pussy on display. So I dive in and start working that some. Then some kissing. I get my pants off and she is on her knees doggie style on the bed and starts a great BJ -me standing. Very nice. I work her pussy from behind some by hand. It's nice but not really wet yet.

Before long she turns around doggie style and is clearly offering bareback despite her prior condom comment! I say baby you want me to get a condom and she says up to you. Just don't come inside me. OK babe I am a man of my word!

She's really not that wet on her pussy lips so I say let me work you some more first babe and she rolls on her back. I do some pretty credible DATY and she says "I like fingers too!" So I work in one and then two and give her a pretty good finger fuck working clit with thumb. Ok we wet now!

Fucking in my fave position FOREVER including bend over kissing while pumping. So fine. Then a drinks break. Then I Lay on my back thinking she will finish by mouth but nope she mounts up RCG and rides like a demon. At one point I have to pull out so as to not cum. Then back inside for some more. And damn prob best RCG I've ever had. I don't want to really cum by hand so i let it build for a while then put her on BJ. I musta backed quite a ways from the edge because it takes a lotta BJ but she stays at it with some hand on balls and I shoot a mega load. She starts to take it all but I guess it's too much and she runs to the bathroom to spit saying she didn't expect so much.

Some nice but somewhat perfunctory cuddles and pics surfing after and a parting kiss. She's not a super affectionate cuddly girl but she's smart as fuck, hot, and loves to fuck bareback. Sounds like a keeper to me! We def gonna repeat.

P.S. Damn the guy advising against bareback has fucked three different girls bareback this month! WTF happened to that dude? LOL.

Great report, man. Yeah, every once in a while, you can hit a homerun on SA.

And yeah, always being on the prowl is a good idea. I met this great gal a few months ago. She had a great body and she loved fucking me, and we could fuck for hours. I thought my lust for her was going to last for at least a year. But after about three months, I have lost interest in her. A decade ago, if I found a hottie, I could fuck her almost every day for about a year. But as I have gotten older, I now get bored faster. So, always got to keep looking, even if you have a great starting lineup and a deep bench.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2611916]So I have my local girl Sue who is sweet and goofy and barebacked me on our most recent date. But she's fat and pokes me for money, so I am always on the prowl for something better. Usually leads no where, but out of the blue I hit a home run.

Struck up a conversation with a girl with a hot chest, unknown total bod, and a pretty plain Jane face. But she's fun to chat with and quick to meetup. Says she's a medical student. Of course I think this is BS but turns out to be totally true.

During chat she's pretty darn straightforward as to why we are here. Like asking if we are going to my place or a hotel. Hahaha. And then on the way to the date she says I should bring my own condoms case hers don't fit. LOL. Ok not much pretense here.

So she shows up a bit late but gentleman that I am I have a drink waiting and damn she's MUCH prettier than her pics. Beautiful smile and dressed quite slutty. Dinner is actually amazing. She is a great conversationalist and clearly well educated. Her father is a doctor and she's lived in London, the Caribbean and Hawaii. At 25 you would think this is BS but every word is true and the pics to prove it (after sex stay tuned!)

After dinner we walk to the convenience store and get some Palomas in cans and a Juul for her. And rock on to the room. Like this girls style. Because she sits in the bed and gives me the come hither look. I join on the bed and am about to kiss her when she hikes up her leather skirt and has no panties on and a beautiful pussy on display. So I dive in and start working that some. Then some kissing. I get my pants off and she is on her knees doggie style on the bed and starts a great BJ -me standing. Very nice. I work her pussy from behind some by hand. It's nice but not really wet yet.

Before long she turns around doggie style and is clearly offering bareback despite her prior condom comment! I say baby you want me to get a condom and she says up to you. Just don't come inside me. OK babe I am a man of my word!

She's really not that wet on her pussy lips so I say let me work you some more first babe and she rolls on her back. I do some pretty credible DATY and she says "I like fingers too!" So I work in one and then two and give her a pretty good finger fuck working clit with thumb. Ok we wet now!

Fucking in my fave position FOREVER including bend over kissing while pumping. So fine. Then a drinks break. Then I Lay on my back thinking she will finish by mouth but nope she mounts up RCG and rides like a demon. At one point I have to pull out so as to not cum. Then back inside for some more. And damn prob best RCG I've ever had. I don't want to really cum by hand so i let it build for a while then put her on BJ. I musta backed quite a ways from the edge because it takes a lotta BJ but she stays at it with some hand on balls and I shoot a mega load. She starts to take it all but I guess it's too much and she runs to the bathroom to spit saying she didn't expect so much.

Some nice but somewhat perfunctory cuddles and pics surfing after and a parting kiss. She's not a super affectionate cuddly girl but she's smart as fuck, hot, and loves to fuck bareback. Sounds like a keeper to me! We def gonna repeat.

P.S. Damn the guy advising against bareback has fucked three different girls bareback this month! WTF happened to that dude? LOL.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2611916]P.S. Damn the guy advising against bareback has fucked three different girls bareback this month! WTF happened to that dude? LOL.[/QUOTE]Steve, the plan b pills are available over the counter. You just have to ask to buy them from the pharmacist. You can get them cheaper on line. I would just give them to a girl when I was done barebacking and say "This is so you do not get pregnant," and they always took them.

[QUOTE=JackMiami;2610546]It's really funny how upset some of you guys are getting.

I said the women on these sites are worse than prostitutes because prostitutes are at least honest about who they are and what's happening.

If guys want to fool themselves into believing that they're seducing incredible women and that they're really only giving "gifts" instead of a fee, that's their (unfortunate and sad) business. But the rest of us are free to laugh at the absurdity of it.

As I said earlier, stop paying and see how long any of these "relationships" last.[/QUOTE]Sigh.

Do prostitutes fuck you bare?

Do prostitutes cook you meals?

Do prostitutes introduce you to their friends or family?

Do prostitutes do your laundry?

Do prostitutes pack your suitcase?

Do prostitutes cry when you leave?

Do prostitutes tell you they love you and mean it?

Do you sleep in your room with prostitutes and leave your wallet out open to the world?

Do prostitutes massage your neck the whole time on a 2 hour drive?

Do prostitutes do whatever you ask for in the bed room?

Do prostitutes whine if they do not get it 3 X a day?

Do prostitutes not ask for money after sex?

Do prostitutes ever just sleep with one guy?

Do prostitutes run across a crowded airport with a huge smile and jump into your arms when they first see you?

Everyone here has been with prostitutes. We know what they are. Sure, there are times we all have gone for a sugar baby and she turned out to be a prostitute. It happens. The women do not come with signs. They fool us or we fool ourselves.

But the reason I went the SB route (and I think others here went that way too) is that sex with prostitutes got old. I wanted someone to stay with me after sex and did not want to get paid X hundreds of dollars to do so. I wanted the pleasure of a woman' s company as much as I wanted her sexually.

What you do not get is the best SB sex blows away the best sex with prostitutes so laugh all you want. To me you just do not know what you are missing.

[QUOTE=Globo;2611863]Sent you a private message, hope I can help.[/QUOTE]It helped a lot, I send you a big Thank you also here!

[QUOTE=TheManager;2611814]Some Swedish banks and card issuers have SA blocked for purchases. Nordea should be fine but SEB has them blacklisted. I tried buying a subscription once with Eurobonus Mastercard which resulted in the card being temporarily blocked.[/QUOTE]I tried using SkandiaBanken, Kivra, Volvo cards. None of them passed. I then used a Android phone and started a subscription via Google Play, which worked for a couple of month, until now. Money was transfered from my bank account, but the subscription wasn't updated. .

I have contacted Seeking twice via the contact form, but no answer so far (4-5 days).

I have also claimed for cancellation of the transaction to Google Play, as the product I bought was never delivered.

I don't know what to do else?

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2612035]Sigh.

Do prostitutes fuck you bare?

Do prostitutes cook you meals?

Do prostitutes introduce you to their friends or family?

Do prostitutes do your laundry?

Do prostitutes pack your suitcase?

Do prostitutes cry when you leave?.[/QUOTE]Awesome report. You forgot a couple:

1. Text and call you unsolicited, asking for nothing. They just want to wish you a good day and see how your doing.

2. Drive you around in there car.

3. Buy you gifts.

SA is very average at best in the states, but as you know in Latin America and other parts of the world SA rocks.

Mexico / Russia Rocks. Ukraine / MDE suck.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2612035]Sigh.

Do prostitutes fuck you bare?

Do prostitutes cook you meals?

Do prostitutes introduce you to their friends or family?

Do prostitutes do your laundry?

Do prostitutes pack your suitcase?

Do prostitutes cry when you leave?

Do prostitutes tell you they love you and mean it?

Do you sleep in your room with prostitutes and leave your wallet out open to the world?

Do prostitutes massage your neck the whole time on a 2 hour drive?

Do prostitutes do whatever you ask for in the bed room?

Do prostitutes whine if they do not get it 3 X a day?

Do prostitutes not ask for money after sex?

Do prostitutes ever just sleep with one guy?

Do prostitutes run across a crowded airport with a huge smile and jump into your arms when they first see you?

Everyone here has been with prostitutes. We know what they are. Sure, there are times we all have gone for a sugar baby and she turned out to be a prostitute. It happens. The women do not come with signs. They fool us or we fool ourselves.

But the reason I went the SB route (and I think others here went that way too) is that sex with prostitutes got old. I wanted someone to stay with me after sex and did not want to get paid X hundreds of dollars to do so. I wanted the pleasure of a woman' s company as much as I wanted her sexually.

What you do not get is the best SB sex blows away the best sex with prostitutes so laugh all you want. To me you just do not know what you are missing.[/QUOTE]I have met / fucked probably north of 25 girls off SA, and not a single one cooked for me, did my laundry, packed my suitcase, cried when I left or did other stuff that only real girlfriends do. Very few fucked me bare though. Therefore I assume they were all prostitutes. Which makes me believe that the majority of SA women are prostitutes, not real SBs. But I still would prefer SA prostitute over a regular working girl (street, casa, etc) because they provide way better service.

[QUOTE=MiamiBoy1;2612424]I have met / fucked probably north of 25 girls off SA, and not a single one cooked for me, did my laundry, packed my suitcase, cried when I left or did other stuff that only real girlfriends do. Very few fucked me bare though. Therefore I assume they were all prostitutes. Which makes me believe that the majority of SA women are prostitutes, not real SBs. But I still would prefer SA prostitute over a regular working girl (street, casa, etc) because they provide way better service.[/QUOTE]That is the point. Maybe you are doing something wrong. Obviously you have a good budget and freedom to travel. I have had many of the same experiences Elvis has. He is on lockdown with one girl and is traveling with her, I am seeing multiple girls. Some of the girls would do anything for me and I would do the same. Call it whatever you want, but the pros far outweigh the negative experiences.

I Did have a negative experience, today. Against my better judgement I was going to fly a girl into MTY. Purchased the ticket and she went dark. We were suppose to discuss the trip last night, I heard nothing. I sent her a message this morning, again heard nothing. Finally I blocked her and canceled my credit card, I might lose s few bucks and some time, but it was time to cut my losses. She finally texted me late this morning, I deleted the text and blocked her. Something was definitely up.

The 2 biggest mistakes I have made with girls in other cities that wanted to fly in and could speak English. Lost money and time on the first one. Hopefully just time on the second one.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2612286]Awesome report. You forgot a couple:

1. Text and call you unsolicited, asking for nothing. They just want to wish you a good day and see how your doing.

2. Drive you around in there car.

3. Buy you gifts.

SA is very average at best in the states, but as you know in Latin America and other parts of the world SA rocks.

Mexico / Russia Rocks. Ukraine / MDE suck.[/QUOTE]Yeah, nice add DF. You know #2 cracks me up because the one time I remember that happening is in Brazil with a girl I picked up at a boate, I think it was Bamboa or Cafe Foto. Anyway, she drove me in a small VW I think a Golf, back to my hotel.

She stayed the night, and it was very nice, very GF / SB like.

I kind of noticed that with Brazilian women. An American guy in Brazil told me that relationships move 8 X faster in Brazil than the USA.

Steve, I know you had a SB like romp with a girl from Scandallo. A lot of the working girls can morph into SB types pretty quickly right? I had that happen with a friend of mine too. One night with a boate girl and he was almost in love and vice versa.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2612522]Yeah, nice add DF. You know #2 cracks me up because the one time I remember that happening is in Brazil with a girl I picked up at a boate, I think it was Bamboa or Cafe Foto. Anyway, she drove me in a small VW I think a Golf, back to my hotel.

She stayed the night, and it was very nice, very GF / SB like.

I kind of noticed that with Brazilian women. An American guy in Brazil told me that relationships move 8 X faster in Brazil than the USA.

Steve, I know you had a SB like romp with a girl from Scandallo. A lot of the working girls can morph into SB types pretty quickly right? I had that happen with a friend of mine too. One night with a boate girl and he was almost in love and vice versa.[/QUOTE]Yeah so I haven't had quite the "love" that Elvis gets and DramaFree but I think that's cultural. Almost all my SB is US based and they are just not like Brasileiras. Don't get me wrong I have almost always found my US girls to be sweet, real girls, not hardened pros (maybe only 1 or 2 out of 25 were serious pros) but not the same as a Brasileira.

As I say Brasileiras can live in the moment better than any girls on earth. And they seem to love all the extra time together way more than "regular" girls. My first Scandallo girl we did 2 hrs in the club before the room. And she sooo wanted me to go to the beach w her friend and her in the morning. And yes Elvis, Thifany was amazing. Not a hardened pro. Just a girl who does Scandalo when she needs cash sometimes. We had known each other five hours (including fucking her one on one and then in a dupla with her friend) when she agreed to spend the week in London with me. Who the fuck just flies off to London with some guy they barely know! A Brasileira- Thats who! And it was the first stamp in her passport! And had her 23rd birthday with me at Chichettis in London. Only a Brasileira!

Elvis had made a great checklist questions about SBs, to which DramaFree made some excellent additions. For fun, I decided to answer them from my own experiences with SBs from using SA in the USA.

Text and call you unsolicited, asking for nothing. They just want to wish you a good day and see how your doing. - Yep, this happened with almost all of my SBs.

Drive you around in there car. - Yep. In fact, when I lived in SF, I did not have a car, and so most of my SBs did all of the driving.

Buy you gifts. - Yep, and they were amazingly quite thoughtful gifts, but obviously nothing expensive since they could not afford it.

Fuck me bare. - Yep, almost always.

Cook me meals. Yep, but only a few. Most wanted me to wine and dine them, which was one of the reasons they were on SA.

Introduce me to their friends or family. - Yep, but I did not like it, LOL. Also, the question of how we met will always come up.

Did my laundry. - Nope.

Pack my suitcase. - Yep.

Cry when I left. - Nope. But most were genuinely sad when I left.

Tell me they love me and mean it. - Yep, but this was always scary.

Slept in my room with wallet out open to the world. - Kind of. I kept money out in the open, but I always tried to hide my wallet.

Massage my neck the whole time on a 2 hour drive. - Nope, but that's because I rarely drove, LOL.

Do whatever I ask for in the bed room. - Yep, but most pros do that too, especially if they think repeat business or a review is possible.

Whine if they do not get it 3 X a day. - Yep, but this did not happen often.

Not ask for money after sex. - Yep, most of my SBs never asked for money, but it was always assumed that I would take care of them, and I did, which is why they never asked.

Sleep with one guy. - Yep, some of my SBs were exclusive with me. I am pretty sure of it. But I am also sure that some slept with other guys, even though they said they did not.

Run across a crowded airport with a huge smile and jump into my arms when they first see me. - Yep.

Took my SB to a nice restaurant the staff kept saying my full name. We have your reservation Mr. Xxx. Thank you for coming Mr. XXX. They think we expect that as respect. But I would rather be anon.

Unless you create a whole other identity, it is very hard to stay anon. The first thing you do is pay in cash and don't expect change. Make reservations under plausible aliases.

I was referred here thanks to Steve9696 from Swiss Globe Thread.

So, I have a fairly technical question about fuck yield on SA v. $ dollars invested. I was under the impression that SA was a glorified prostitution site where you have to cough up $500 to fuck muffin top college-drop-outs. From reading the posts it sounds like its turned into a mainstream dating site for gold-diggers.

As background, from 2010-2014 I ran a sex-search campaign on a major dating site (see 20014 intro post) before age filters, AI, blocking, etc. I had outbound 18,000+ messages / yr. With 15 cut / paste messages 3 x / day. I was booked Thur-Sun. With 45 min. Cocktail dates ($25); 200+ dates / yr. And fucked 24 on first date back to my apartment 1 block away. Now granted I am white-collar, fit and had a panty dropper apartment in SoHo and Hollywood Hills loft; these girls were happy to fuck with $1 margaritas and a $3. 99 Trader-Giotto pizza. I got 18-25 8-10's, models, dancers, Hollywood actresses, porn stars, etc. Then boom the numbers dropped from 24-12-6-1 from 2015-2021 as Tinder, IG, filters, blocking, AI took hold.

Today this is impossible as every dating site has filters, AI, and throttles messages / day to <5 even though sent shows 50. I know I was flagged in top. 01% of users as last cancellation refund had email CC'd: of my last 10 fake-emails over a decade; even with changes in names, cards, paypal, IP, address, etc. My rocker neighbor in Hollywood swore by SA with Premium; but I had birds eye view between our glass lofts and they were all minority 6-7's tops and he was dropping $10,000's.

I am happy to join SA, if I can run a numbers game and whittle it down to nympho 9-10's who want to be fucked hard AND are flexible on benefits. If its all filters and throttling and am stuck talking to muffin tops at Starbucks then I will pass.

Are you guys actually finding 9-10's OR just young pussy that's marginally better than generic prostitutes?

Reason I switched to Swiss Globe, was I happy to pay $150 for18-25 9-11's in Zurich and spend rest of my time on business and investments.

[QUOTE=Akibono;2613193]Took my SB to a nice restaurant the staff kept saying my full name. We have your reservation Mr. Xxx. Thank you for coming Mr. XXX. They think we expect that as respect. But I would rather be anon.

Unless you create a whole other identity, it is very hard to stay anon. The first thing you do is pay in cash and don't expect change. Make reservations under plausible aliases.[/QUOTE]Yep, if you are concerned about your identity I would not be on SA.

[QUOTE=KaveMan;2613293]Are you guys actually finding 9-10's OR just young pussy that's marginally better than generic prostitutes?[/QUOTE]Check out this post I wrote on this very topic recently: [URL]http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2607734[/URL]#post2607734.

[QUOTE=Akibono;2613193]Took my SB to a nice restaurant the staff kept saying my full name. We have your reservation Mr. Xxx. Thank you for coming Mr. XXX. They think we expect that as respect. But I would rather be anon.

Unless you create a whole other identity, it is very hard to stay anon. The first thing you do is pay in cash and don't expect change. Make reservations under plausible aliases.[/QUOTE]Yeah if you are going to work the US (and really always a good idea) you need a consistent alias — both first and last name. And burner phone. Like your gmail has a first and last name (not vetted) and when you make dinner reservations they want first and last. I use my alias for both of these. You can't avoid certain things like your credit card has your name on it. And the hotel rez has to be in your name. But the more done with an alias the better. Just like you saw at the restaurant.

I always smile a bit when they greet me with my alias.

P.S. As Midwestern says there is no zero risk solution. I just try to keep it manageable.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2613413]
I always smile a bit when they greet me with my alias.
[/QUOTE]I have had many alias as I prefer to change each year or so. But I have one gal that has been a consistent mistress for 4 years now. She is still using my original alias. Just recently we were in a cafe, I was sitting looking out and she was at the counter ordering. She was calling my original alias name. And of course I'm not responding at all.

When I have travelled domestic and international airlines with my SBs I have given up on alias. Passports and immigration make it too complicated.

Cheers.

[QUOTE=KaveMan;2613293]I was referred here thanks to Steve9696 from Swiss Globe Thread.

So, I have a fairly technical question about fuck yield on SA v. $ dollars invested. I was under the impression that SA was a glorified prostitution site where you have to cough up $500 to fuck muffin top college-drop-outs. From reading the posts it sounds like its turned into a mainstream dating site for gold-diggers.

As background, from 2010-2014 I ran a sex-search campaign on a major dating site (see 20014 intro post) before age filters, AI, blocking, etc. I had outbound 18,000+ messages / yr. With 15 cut / paste messages 3 x / day. I was booked Thur-Sun. With 45 min. Cocktail dates ($25); 200+ dates / yr. And fucked 24 on first date back to my apartment 1 block away. Now granted I am white-collar, fit and had a panty dropper apartment in SoHo and Hollywood Hills loft; these girls were happy to fuck with $1 margaritas and a $3. 99 Trader-Giotto pizza. I got 18-25 8-10's, models, dancers, Hollywood actresses, porn stars, etc. Then boom the numbers dropped from 24-12-6-1 from 2015-2021 as Tinder, IG, filters, blocking, AI took hold.

Today this is impossible as every dating site has filters, AI, and throttles messages / day to <5 even though sent shows 50. I know I was flagged in top. 01% of users as last cancellation refund had email CC'd: of my last 10 fake-emails over a decade; even with changes in names, cards, paypal, IP, address, etc. My rocker neighbor in Hollywood swore by SA with Premium; but I had birds eye view between our glass lofts and they were all minority 6-7's tops and he was dropping $10,000's.

I am happy to join SA, if I can run a numbers game and whittle it down to nympho 9-10's who want to be fucked hard AND are flexible on benefits. If its all filters and throttling and am stuck talking to muffin tops at Starbucks then I will pass.

Are you guys actually finding 9-10's OR just young pussy that's marginally better than generic prostitutes?

Reason I switched to Swiss Globe, was I happy to pay $150 for18-25 9-11's in Zurich and spend rest of my time on business and investments.[/QUOTE]Lots to unpack here. Let's start with the 9-10's discussion. To be fair Globe has a higher visual standard than most clubs or escorts worldwide. But there are no tens there iMO and very few nines. I'the say a goodly number of 7 and 8's. For reference three girls I've done at globe are Simina 9, Kate 8, and Tina 7. And outside of globe you AR not going to be seeing 9's. I had one at Aphrodisia. Never seen one at Sharks or other German FKK. Seen a few at Scandalo in SP. And a couple at Tokyo Hentai club and Diva escorts UK.

Point is it's a tough find. You are not going to find any 9's doing escorting in US for $500/ HR. You can find a nine on SA. I'the say Alexa and Kayla are both 9's and both have been happy to have dinner, bareback, and stay overnight for that kinda PPM. And quite a slew of 8's.

My summary would be if you put in the time and have good game and not objectionable looking you can have 7-9's on a regular basis. I am not sure however you can do this programmatically. Prob have to do the work.

Ps if U are looking for basic suck and fuck then SA is way too much work. A lotta guys - me included - do SA cuz they want the mini relationship with dinner and sleepovers day at the beach whatever. A real (paid) girlfriend.

As you guys know I am not a big fan of the Colombian Chicas. I met one by mistake, but we are meeting on a regular basis now. Total freak in bed, very nice and hard working. Not bad looking at all.

The girl finally contacted me that was going to fly in and meet me in MTY. Total disaster, looks like I will lose the money for the flight. She was not scamming me, but had second thoughts, bit waste of time. She is too Americanized. Live and learn.

Great trip, I Have 5 meeting is 24 hours. No anal, but everything else. Love the MTY.

Arrive a 4 pm, I left work early. I meet a new girl. She is high as kite. Go up to the room and have sex immediately. When she sobered up she was real nice and pretty hot.

2nd meeting ends up having to work late, I was a little upset up about this, but it happen.

I meet one of my regulars at S. Prime. She looks amazing. Drinks and food was great, so much fun, but it gets much better. We get back to the room and we had sex most of the night. In the middle of the night she gets on top of me and off goes the the condom, awesome.

To all the haters, you can not put a price tag on this. She thanked me and said they had a great night. I gave her $200 and at the restaurant, I spent $150.

Moscow / Mexico Rock. Kiev / MDE suck! Censorship on a sex page, because someone does not like you opinion is even worse.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2613443]Lots to unpack here. Let's start with the 9-10's discussion. To be fair Globe has a higher visual standard than most clubs or escorts worldwide. But there are no tens there iMO and very few nines. I'the say a goodly number of 7 and 8's. For reference three girls I've done at globe are Simina 9, Kate 8, and Tina 7. And outside of globe you AR not going to be seeing 9's. I had one at Aphrodisia. Never seen one at Sharks or other German FKK. Seen a few at Scandalo in SP. And a couple at Tokyo Hentai club and Diva escorts UK.

Point is it's a tough find. You are not going to find any 9's doing escorting in US for $500/ HR. You can find a nine on SA. I'the say Alexa and Kayla are both 9's and both have been happy to have dinner, bareback, and stay overnight for that kinda PPM. And quite a slew of 8's.

My summary would be if you put in the time and have good game and not objectionable looking you can have 7-9's on a regular basis. I am not sure however you can do this programmatically. Prob have to do the work.

Ps if U are looking for basic suck and fuck then SA is way too much work. A lotta guys - me included - do SA cuz they want the mini relationship with dinner and sleepovers day at the beach whatever. A real (paid) girlfriend.[/QUOTE]I would also add that with SBs, you cannot count on them showing up consistently, especially on the first meeting. Flakes are common. I have found quite a few girls trolling for numbers. They use fake pictures and change accounts often. You get text messages out of the blue and the pic they send do not match anything you have seen on the site. I think that keeps them from getting blocked and banned. I also see a few that keep changing their location. Real SB would not move all over the country.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2613446]

Moscow / Mexico Rock. Kiev / MDE suck! Censorship on a sex page, because someone does not like you opinion is even worse.[/QUOTE]Do you use SA in Moscow and Kiev? In my opinion, Moscow sucks, St. Pete beats Moscow, and any 2nd tier city in Russia beats both. I haven't mongered in Ukraine, but heard the talent is even better, so is the price point.

Would love to read your Moscow or Kiev reports. When in Russia, I use Tinder exclusively, but I'm fluent in Russian, so have an advantage.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2613446]Arrive a 4 pm, I left work early. I meet a new girl. She is high as kite. Go up to the room and have sex immediately. When she sobered up she was real nice and pretty hot.

2nd meeting ends up having to work late, I was a little upset up about this, but it happen.

I meet one of my regulars at S. Prime. She looks amazing. Drinks and food was great, so much fun, but it gets much better. We get back to the room and we had sex most of the night. In the middle of the night she gets on top of me and off goes the the condom, awesome.

To all the haters, you can not put a price tag on this. She thanked me and said they had a great night. I gave her $200 and at the restaurant, I spent $150.

Moscow / Mexico Rock. Kiev / MDE suck! Censorship on a sex page, because someone does not like you opinion is even worse.[/QUOTE]If this was in the states, no way I would have sex with a high girl. Too easy to be accused of supplying the drugs or rape. The only exception is cannabis. Just my opinion. Just not worth the risk. Not going to jail or be bankrupt by an aggressive the.

[QUOTE=MiamiBoy1;2613474]Do you use SA in Moscow and Kiev? In my opinion, Moscow sucks, St. Pete beats Moscow, and any 2nd tier city in Russia beats both. I haven't mongered in Ukraine, but heard the talent is even better, so is the price point.

Would love to read your Mosco

or Kiev reports. When in Russia, I use Tinder exclusively, but I'm fluent in Russian, so have an advantage.[/QUOTE]Sorry, I think we have completely different tastes. Kiev really sucks and is over rated. St. Pet. Was OK, Moscow was incredible.

Obviously you are doing something wrong. You need to reevaluate what you are doing and find a place that makes you happy. Good luck, you can read my reports.

Recent poster mentioned minorities and college students on SA so I did a little inventory on my own experience. Let me say first that I literally cannot stand pasty white girls and generally steer clear of white girls in general (unless they tend towards that raven haired beauty side of things like some Romanian girls). So mine is a biased take. This is SA only, about 80% US, and doesn't include my life with the pros. I have had some amazing mixes like Black Phillipina Italian (wow!) Black Ukrainian, Korean Viet Mexican, and more. I put girls like that in the "closest" bin.

Blackish 8.

Latina 11.

Asian 4.

White 4.

Middle Eastern 2.

Of late my last four great SBs (3 active) have been black. Not sure what's up with that or just a coincidence. And here are the occupations: College student, Waitress, Stripper, Cust Service, Yoga Instructor, Office Manager, Receptionist, Care Giver, Maid. The college student persona is relatively rare. Only 3 of 28. And as previously mentioned 22-24 is the magic age for me. Almost all my success is in this age range. And if they have a subtle nose ring/stud that is almost always a tell and we are gonna be a match. LOL.

HBU?

[QUOTE=TheManager;2609893]As you noted that's an American phenomena. It's rather odd actually as I've found it to be the opposite just about everywhere else in the world.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=TheManager;2609893]As you noted that's an American phenomena. It's rather odd actually as I've found it to be the opposite just about everywhere else in the world.[/QUOTE]First off thanks Steve et al for the very informative primer on SA, field reports, analysis and data.

I do believe some data points could be mis-interpreted:

1.) Cost: SB being 2-3 x more expensive (less expensive) v. Escorts (or vice-versa) is totally subjective. Total sunk costs (dinner, drinks, prospecting $/#HR opportunity cost, etc.) are totally different v, tapping a button and opening a door.

2.) Demographics: yours skew (unsurprisingly) toward the response rates of Women's race on dating site. Black women receive the least contacts and respond the most; Latina, Asian, ME same and White women receive the most responses and respond to least. White women are only 13% of your inventory. OKC compiled actuarial data that supports above and I have seen it across every dating site over a decade.

3.) Ratings & Race: Comparing 7-9 minority female to 7-9 White is apples and oranges & massively subjective. Not knocking personal preferences or racist. Just what I see in society and behavior of high status Black men who upgrade to White GFs / wives as soon as they have $ (athletes, actors, musicians, etc). The number of White women on SA seemed very low the one time I did the free membership.

4.) Sleepover: I would venture to say a "sleepover" is not valued by majority of Men be / see marriage, logistics, privacy, safety, security. In the immortal testimony of Charlie Sheen to a Beverly Hills Judge: "I don't pay them for sex. I pay them to leave."

5.) Value: the "SB for $4-500 for 4-5 hours" balloon into a huge number once its fully loaded (250 dinner / drinks, etc). I'm assuming the 20+ successful SB entailed 2. 5 visits (1-10 visit range). Back of the envelope: $750 * 2.5 * 20 = $37,500 and a 5% loss at $2,500 (5-visit loss-rate: no show, no chemistry, no sex, still pay, scammed or lose hotel / dinner / logistics / CC refund denial $).

6.) $40 K seems like a big nut for 7's minority chicks and random 9 white chick. You could get Twenty (20) $2,000 9-10 escorts (with Titles (beauty Pageant), Fame (porn star, be-model, be-actress), Pristine near virgin 18 yo or 11 level Minority escort for that price.

7.) Sense of Occasion / Special event Magic: I totally get the value of GFE and the 4-5 hrs that goes with SB. Having said that paying 45 minutes for a $750-2000 escort is NOT a 44 minute event. I have hired them in Beverly Hills, SoHo and London; each stretches into a full event. There is the prep & anticipation of them coming over; there is savoring 5 star room service or grilling a steak on your patio or top-shelf drink / cigar knowing in 1 HR you will fuck a 10; there is the entry and being blown away by her hair, dress, perfume; there is her using the bathroom or shower to prep; there is the official clock start; and then the full 45 minutes of banging the living shit out of her -- Not nice careful fuck, this is a civilian college girl, I don't want to be arrested or sued. There is the "after-fuck" where she says "OK if have a smoke" or "Wow can we walk around the pool" or "can I shower again before my next appointment; join me" even the rare "I need another drink; do you have any food". I have never had one at 46 minute reach for a wet-wipe and leave in 30 seconds. Then there is the post-fuck glow of your life; taking a hygienic shower, having another drink and surveying the grandeur of your conquest. All-in this would easily eat up 3 hours and sometimes more and would be plenty for me. I will never forget fucking a 10 escort over the railing of a Beverly Hills house I rented with pool lit up and she coming while the sprinklers came on and shot water up palm fronds! Priceless.

Not knocking SA. It obviously works for you, you have a very successful system, and its fits your lifestyle perfectly during a global pussy drought.

Nevertheless, being fully transparent I think SA skews towards minority, and market has cleared a price $400 equivalent to its value v. Escorts.

Cheers.

[QUOTE=Akibono;2613479]If this was in the states, no way I would have sex with a high girl. Too easy to be accused of supplying the drugs or rape. The only exception is cannabis. Just my opinion. Just not worth the risk. Not going to jail or be bankrupt by an aggressive the.[/QUOTE]Great advice! I have walked on a date in the state, when she was High. That was one crazy night. I paid my bill and took off running and yes, I was worried about the consequences. I would never do have the things I do in Mexico or Moscow in the states. Girls are flat out crazy in the states and mix in drugs it is accident waiting to happen. Thanks again!

[QUOTE=KaveMan;2613608]First off thanks Steve et al for the very informative primer on SA, field reports, analysis and data.

I do believe some data points could be mis-interpreted:

1.) Cost: SB being 2-3 x more expensive (less expensive) v. Escorts (or vice-versa) is totally subjective. Total sunk costs (dinner, drinks, prospecting $/#HR opportunity cost, etc.) are totally different v, tapping a button and opening a door.

2.) Demographics: yours skew (unsurprisingly) toward the response rates of Women's race on dating site. Black women receive the least contacts and respond the most; Latina, Asian, ME same and White women receive the most responses and respond to least. White women are only 13% of your inventory. OKC compiled actuarial data that supports above and I have seen it across every dating site over a decade.

3.) Ratings & Race: Comparing 7-9 minority female to 7-9 White is apples and oranges & massively subjective. Not knocking personal preferences or racist. Just what I see in society and behavior of high status Black men who upgrade to White GFs / wives as soon as they have $ (athletes, actors, musicians, etc). The number of White women on SA seemed very low the one time I did the free membership.

4.) Sleepover: I would venture to say a "sleepover" is not valued by majority of Men be / see marriage, logistics, privacy, safety, security. In the immortal testimony of Charlie Sheen to a Beverly Hills Judge: "I don't pay them for sex. I pay them to leave."

5.) Value: the "SB for $4-500 for 4-5 hours" balloon into a huge number once its fully loaded (250 dinner / drinks, etc). I'm assuming the 20+ successful SB entailed 2. 5 visits (1-10 visit range). Back of the envelope: $750 * 2.5 * 20 = $37,500 and a 5% loss at $2,500 (5-visit loss-rate: no show, no chemistry, no sex, still pay, scammed or lose hotel / dinner / logistics / CC refund denial $).[/QUOTE]Sorry, you can not put a value on a great evening with a hot chick! Now when it get's be crazy money then obviously no!

There was a guy bragging about spending a lot of money on one girl in Kiev, double-triple market value, now that is crazy.

Has anybody used SA in Vegas? I'm going next week and got a couple of babies who want to meet just by looking at their profiles, then they messaged me. They don't look to be obvious pros.

[QUOTE=AmorPorFavor;2613747]Has anybody used SA in Vegas? I'm going next week and got a couple of babies who want to meet just by looking at their profiles, then they messaged me. They don't look to be obvious pros.[/QUOTE]Yes I've had three babies in Vegas. Two great ones and the famous Jesse who said "I can't have sex with a guy I just met" and after some amazing charm we were having sex twenty minutes later. But yeah it's not all pros. All three were great girls. I repeated with both Alexa and Krystal and flew Alexa to Miami. So some real diamonds.

That said most who message you are not the ones you are after. Of course u can engage in small talk and it should separate them out quickly. A pro is not gonna chat for long nor tolerate a long time before U visit.

Happy to render an opinion if you want to message me their screen names.

Hello gentlemen,

Quick poll of the group to see who has recommendations for travel destinations over new year's eve this year. I'm looking for someplace warm, relatively immune to pandemic lockdowns, cultural (if possible), and with good food (and of course, I have a bit of a sweet tooth to go with it all). Would love to hear the collective wisdom of my kindred spirits and fellow travelers.

[QUOTE=KaveMan;2613608]First off thanks Steve et al for the very informative primer on SA, field reports, analysis and data.[/QUOTE]Your post is a bit odd. You quote me twice, then address Steve and start talking about race / black women. I suspect you've quoted the wrong posts.

I know the OKC data you are referring to. I used to have a very sweet time on the site when I lived in NYC post-Lehman. I also know that particular data is over a decade old, and not representative of Europe where I now reside.

Overall I believe your overly data based approach is not doing you any favors in actually getting your dick wet. I know because I used to try to explain everything with numbers myself. Now I know that was a young version of me trying to use a system I could control (math / science) to gain access to one I at the time couldn't control (hot women).

About a year ago, I decided to completely shave my cock. Now it is totally hairless. I have noticed that I am getting longer BJs and more women are willing to bareback me. Do you guys think there is a causal effect, or this is just a spurious correlation?

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2614417]About a year ago, I decided to completely shave my cock. Now it is totally hairless. I have noticed that I am getting longer BJs and more women are willing to bareback me. Do you guys think there is a causal effect, or this is just a spurious correlation?[/QUOTE]I consider shaving or at least trimming to be good hygiene. Many girls complain about hair and body odor. I always use some high end fragrances or at least some body spray. You definitely get better service. It shows you care and are classy.

I have dealt with SA pre COVID and looked normal with good experiences but my recent experiences in California and Florida suggests the ads are going through some filter and is not 1-1 independent.

Sort of through escort agency kind or filtered by SA itself. SA merged with a dating agency early this year.

Is it rigged?

They are also pushing this premium, diamond and other memberships.

Is the site be fished by pro-agencies to catch the big good fish or through some big brother or most ads are spams.

They need to institute more rules for female ads to make sure they are genuine.

They have HQ. In Las Vegas, Ukraine and Singapore so that they can't be busted easily. In liberal places.

Something is fishy.

Should SA be more accountable to the sucker daddies?

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2614417]About a year ago, I decided to completely shave my cock. Now it is totally hairless. I have noticed that I am getting longer BJs and more women are willing to bareback me. Do you guys think there is a causal effect, or this is just a spurious correlation?[/QUOTE]Yeah I asked Sue to lick and suck my balls early on — she's fairly new to this — and she said "if you shave your balls". I've never taken the big plunge but did electric razor them fairly close and she has been sucking them sooooo. Maybe.

Question is how do you do it? My electric nicks them if I go right to skin. Been afraid of the blade. Thought about Nair but never took the plunge. What do you guys do to go clean shaven?

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2614598]Yeah I asked Sue to lick and suck my balls early on she's fairly new to this and she said "if you shave your balls". I've never taken the big plunge but did electric razor them fairly close and she has been sucking them sooooo. Maybe.

Question is how do you do it? My electric nicks them if I go right to skin. Been afraid of the blade. Thought about Nair but never took the plunge. What do you guys do to go clean shaven?[/QUOTE]I use Gillette Venus. If there is a Bush I trim it down before using it.

Usually do this at least a day before I'm expecting to have sex.

Haha why does this always happen! So I wrote about my recent homerun Uma who was an unexpected addition to the local line up. I still really like Sue despite her size because she kisses like a demon and adores me. But Uma is def hotter. And they both want to see me. So who am i to say no!

So even as I am stressing over my two girls and seeing them virtually back who shows up but Teri. We went out close to a year ago and really vibed good but couldnt close the deal that night for some complex reasons. Then ex drama and never able to meet. Then ghosting. Been pinging her since May once a month or so and nothing. Gave up. And here she is today out of the blue!

Keep those Rolodex fingers always hot and ready fellas!

[QUOTE=BlueSwede;2612045]I tried using SkandiaBanken, Kivra, Volvo cards. None of them passed. I then used a Android phone and started a subscription via Google Play, which worked for a couple of month, until now. Money was transfered from my bank account, but the subscription wasn't updated. .

I have contacted Seeking twice via the contact form, but no answer so far (4-5 days).
I have also claimed for cancellation of the transaction to Google Play, as the product I bought was never delivered.
I don't know what to do else?[/QUOTE]Today Seeking finally answered my email and fixed my account + gave me a complimentary Boozt, whatever that is? Someone that knows?

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2614642]Haha why does this always happen! So I wrote about my recent homerun Uma who was an unexpected addition to the local line up. I still really like Sue despite her size because she kisses like a demon and adores me. But Uma is def hotter. And they both want to see me. So who am i to say no!

So even as I am stressing over my two girls and seeing them virtually back who shows up but Teri. We went out close to a year ago and really vibed good but couldnt close the deal that night for some complex reasons. Then ex drama and never able to meet. Then ghosting. Been pinging her since May once a month or so and nothing. Gave up. And here she is today out of the blue!

Keep those Rolodex fingers always hot and ready fellas![/QUOTE]Girls always come back when they need money. Then the become arrogant when they are flush.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2614598]Yeah I asked Sue to lick and suck my balls early on she's fairly new to this and she said "if you shave your balls". I've never taken the big plunge but did electric razor them fairly close and she has been sucking them sooooo. Maybe.

Question is how do you do it? My electric nicks them if I go right to skin. Been afraid of the blade. Thought about Nair but never took the plunge. What do you guys do to go clean shaven?[/QUOTE]Never tried, but heard it mentioned multiple times.

[QUOTE=BlueSwede;2614654]Today Seeking finally answered my email and fixed my account + gave me a complimentary Boozt, whatever that is? Someone that knows?[/QUOTE]It's a visibility push. You'll be at the top of search results for a short while, which is pretty meaningless but good that you can finally access the site through premium.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2614417]About a year ago, I decided to completely shave my cock. Now it is totally hairless. I have noticed that I am getting longer BJs and more women are willing to bareback me. Do you guys think there is a causal effect, or this is just a spurious correlation?[/QUOTE]LOL. Not at all. The attached pics are of an American hottie who for some reason other American women trashed. One called her tits horse apples and another swore she was hiding her gut.

I thought she was gorgeous, and she had an aloof manner about her. It seemed to me that she was able to handle some of the wealthiest but socially awkward men on SA. She finally confessed to me she was a school teacher and did let me drive her BMM Convertible, come to think of it.

However, one time, she did this most amazing thing. She was given me head and got disgusted. "You have too much damned hair" she said, and she shaved me from top to bottom. It took like 30 minutes.

Of course, that would be another SB question. Have you ever had a ho manscape you from head to toe? But I think I may be the only one to say yes to this one. LOL.

So yes, MW, you will get better service if you are smooth. I guarantee it.

The school teacher acted a little immature so I had to give her the boot. I wonder in hindsight if I did it too quickly though.

Well haha just like it rains it pours it can go to a draught just as fast! So after having three hotties in line, Teri went quiet and Sue and I got into a pissing contest. We had things all arranged and then she bagged on the day part of our date without communicating and then having an elaborate lame excuse. I kinda got petty and said was our date on tonight or should I find another date and that def hurt her feelings. It was uncalled for and I felt bad. Anyhow we made up but our date was cancelled.

Fortunately Uma comes thru last minute with a "how's your day" which I pounce on and say I want to see you tonight. She reminds that she is on the rag but has "supple lips" and I say I am down. Well this turns out to be a barrel of fun.

We have an epic dinner at a South American restaurant I manage to find and she is stunned because it's not far from her. Amazing food and a couple drinks. We are comfy together so we start to talk about how to find a motel. Everything is over $300/ night this time of year (some are $1000 wtf?) but she thinks we can find one of those beach motels that there are a million of. So we pick up cocktails in a can at the 7-11 and start the search. It's a tough go but actually kinda fun cruising motels w my girl. Most have a no vacancy sign but we pop into a couple that say vacancy and eventually have luck. We finally score something and amazingly enough it's literally steps from the beach, nicely appointed and surf crashing as we enter the room.

True to form she gives an excellent and long BJ to a CIM and spit. We cuddle for a bit snd then she says let's go out! So we hit two places. One packed with a live band and dancing and one lowkey with a pool table. A couple hours I suppose. Then more 7-11 cocktails because we killed the first four pack (she can really drink!) and then we walk on the beach barefoot. It's chilly but amazing and just one of those life experiences you never forget.

Back in the room we warm up a bit but no round 2. So far we have not done a double. We will see.

So an awesome night but here's the bad news good news and a warning. After I drop her off I am about 5 minutes from her place and blue flashing lights behind me. Yep. Being pulled over at 2 AM and I am lit. Thank god things never go there. He gives me a speeding ticket (which he knocked 10 mph off thank u) and a citation for out of date insurance card and sends me on my way. So that is the good news. No DUI. But fuck what a wake up call. Got to chill a bit. Getting crazy is fun but writing you from jail not so much!

Anyhow that is my wild tale. Bring me up to date on your adventures guys!

Hi guys,

Fortunately I stumbled upon this forum. I am from India. I've been reading your posts and honestly, love them. They are so knowledgeable and give inputs on various facets of sugar-babe scene.

Friends, I am 52 and 6 feet tall, slim and exercise to keep myself fit. Girls find me handsome (no jokes, they told me). I have a query for you. I'd be most obliged if you guys share your thoughts on it. Buddies, I do take a Pill before sex but I can only come once a week in pussy. I can fuck well for a long time but the satisfaction of releasing in pussy every 4/5 days is elusive to me. I have spoken to many docs and experts In India and they told me at my age, body system needs time at least 5 days for it to again build up. This SA and girls are addictive and cannot let go of them easily too. You'll understand my dilemma. I have tried 6 girls in Aug and September but my experiment failed and it's a total waste of money and mood spoiler by ultimately having a HJ or BJ. Girls have been good to me and understand it but it's for my own satisfaction to release in Pussy.

Buddies, I need your advice as to how you manage and do it if you do it on a frequent basis. Like Steve, I read your reports and find that you cum easily; perhaps minimum with 2 girls in a week. Not counting numbers but I wish to have a new new girl and cum in pussy and not in mouth or by a HJ. Sometimes, it's ok to have a combination of all and get a mix of all 3 but I get ultimate satisfaction of cuming in pussy.

I know it's my first post but I do look forward to everyone's views on my issue. Kindly do share your views on it.

Thanks in advance.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2615805]Well haha just like it rains it pours it can go to a draught just as fast! So after having three hotties in line, Teri went quiet and Sue and I got into a pissing contest. We had things all arranged and then she bagged on the day part of our date without communicating and then having an elaborate lame excuse. I kinda got petty and said was our date on tonight or should I find another date and that def hurt her feelings. It was uncalled for and I felt bad. Anyhow we made up but our date was cancelled.

Fortunately Uma comes thru last minute with a "how's your day" which I pounce on and say I want to see you tonight. She reminds that she is on the rag but has "supple lips" and I say I am down. Well this turns out to be a barrel of fun.

We have an epic dinner at a South American restaurant I manage to find and she is stunned because it's not far from her. Amazing food and a couple drinks. We are comfy together so we start to talk about how to find a motel. Everything is over $300/ night this time of year (some are $1000 wtf?) but she thinks we can find one of those beach motels that there are a million of. So we pick up cocktails in a can at the 7-11 and start the search. It's a tough go but actually kinda fun cruising motels w my girl. Most have a no vacancy sign but we pop into a couple that say vacancy and eventually have luck. We finally score something and amazingly enough it's literally steps from the beach, nicely appointed and surf crashing as we enter the room.[/QUOTE]You got lucky. At that time, most cops are looking for dui. Beside ruinous insurance costs and legal fees, in many states you will be walking or doing taxis for six months. This is true even for the first offense.

On a different note, I bagged my first SB. Looks like I will be seeing her often. She's not a pro, but not a true amateur either. Was it worth the effort? Yes. Lots of work and not very predictable. I like the fact that she is a graduate student and reliable for now (at least when they need the money). The downside is she wants to be discreet. So, limited options outside of the room for now. Hotels are getting to be an issue with closed bars and restaurants, reduced housekeeping and now check in after FOUR! Had anyone had an issue with just vacating a room without formally checking out? I am in my home area and just use the room for a few hours. Not sure if there is a better option. Most hotels still don't have remote checking and checkout.

[QUOTE=Akibono;2615914]You got lucky. At that time, most cops are looking for dui. Beside ruinous insurance costs and legal fees, in many states you will be walking or doing taxis for six months. This is true even for the first offense.

On a different note, I bagged my first SB. Looks like I will be seeing her often. She's not a pro, but not a true amateur either. Was it worth the effort? Yes. Lots of work and not very predictable. I like the fact that she is a graduate student and reliable for now (at least when they need the money). The downside is she wants to be discreet. So, limited options outside of the room for now. Hotels are getting to be an issue with closed bars and restaurants, reduced housekeeping and now check in after FOUR! Had anyone had an issue with just vacating a room without formally checking out? I am in my home area and just use the room for a few hours. Not sure if there is a better option. Most hotels still don't have remote checking and checkout.[/QUOTE]

First of all CONGRATS Aki! I know u been poking around the edges. So glad u landed a hottie!

Yeah I know how lucky I am. Seems to follow me thank god. I remember he asked me whatcha been doing this time of night and I said "fucking a 25 year old hottie and drinking like a fish". Hahaha. Not really. I did only say "just hanging out" and he let it pass. Surely he coulda fished and hassled me. Nice guy. Again thanking my lucky stars.

On hotel NEVER had a problem just leaving. I haven't checked out EVER when dating. No problem at all. Pro tip: when you book you just give name not address. They often take your license and to key in your address. Stop them and say that's not my current address. They will either leave it blank or ask you and you can give a bogus address. One time they put in my real address anyhow and no I'll effects but better to avoid if you have a SO.

[QUOTE=CgSingh;2615807]I have tried 6 girls in Aug and September but my experiment failed and it's a total waste of money and mood spoiler by ultimately having a HJ or BJ. Girls have been good to me and understand it but it's for my own satisfaction to release in Pussy.[/QUOTE]What about CIM? I also don't come easily but I can shoot two or three times an evening if blown with feeling. An that sets me free for coming also into pussy. But not with condom, alas only with Sugargirls.

[QUOTE=CgSingh;2615807]Hi guys,

Fortunately I stumbled upon this forum. I am from India. I've been reading your posts and honestly, love them. They are so knowledgeable and give inputs on various facets of sugar-babe scene.

Friends, I am 52 and 6 feet tall, slim and exercise to keep myself fit. Girls find me handsome (no jokes, they told me). I have a query for you. I'd be most obliged if you guys share your thoughts on it. Buddies, I do take a Pill before sex but I can only come once a week in pussy. I can fuck well for a long time but the satisfaction of releasing in pussy every 4/5 days is elusive to me. I have spoken to many docs and experts In India and they told me at my age, body system needs time at least 5 days for it to again build up. This SA and girls are addictive and cannot let go of them easily too. You'll understand my dilemma. I have tried 6 girls in Aug and September but my experiment failed and it's a total waste of money and mood spoiler by ultimately having a HJ or BJ. Girls have been good to me and understand it but it's for my own satisfaction to release in Pussy.

Buddies, I need your advice as to how you manage and do it if you do it on a frequent basis. Like Steve, I read your reports and find that you cum easily; perhaps minimum with 2 girls in a week. Not counting numbers but I wish to have a new new girl and cum in pussy and not in mouth or by a HJ. Sometimes, it's ok to have a combination of all and get a mix of all 3 but I get ultimate satisfaction of cuming in pussy.

I know it's my first post but I do look forward to everyone's views on my issue. Kindly do share your views on it.

Thanks in advance.[/QUOTE]I have several thoughts here (is anyone surprised? First let me dispel the myth that I can cum many times from fucking. Yes I've had occasion to cum with 5 different girls in 24 hours (twice) but only one of those — usually the first or secondbis in pussy. That's because in pussy is usually condoms and condoms suck. Oh and your doctor is full of shit.

So the place to start is get condoms that suck less. In fact if you aren't girthy you can get condoms that are almost not there. Get the Okamoto 01's. These are amazing. You hardly feel they are there. And you can feel her pussy heat if a girl is into you. Only problem is they are super small. Even the large is too tight on me but I am girthy. If you are more regular size get the large and you will be in heaven. You can get them from Allfromjapan if you are outside Japan. Barring the Okamotos I've found Skyn to be good and thin and the girls like the non latex.

Second improve your fucking details. First if you haven't done it the position you want is where you bring her on her back with pussy at edge of bed. You stand at the bed and slide in. Just adjust your foot width to get the height right. Grab her legs and pound away. This is very dominant and they love it too because if you have an upswing dick it massages their gspot good. But mostly you can fuck forever like this and not get tired. Lean over and you can DFK while fucking also.

The other thing to improve is don't focus on your orgasm. Just take in her beauty. The way she is scrunching her face or smiling. The tendons in her neck. Her tits bouncing. Somehow when I just enjoy looking at the her and not focus on cumming I am more likely to cum!

And finally as the previous poster says learn to love CIM. With a girl with top notch BJ skills CIM is a way better way to finish than in pussy IMO.

Have fun!

Oh and Akibono on the checkin at 4 thing this depends how busy they are. At certain times of year I've been able to checkin as early as 1230. That said U should checkout day use hotels. There is [URL]dayuse.com[/URL] and [URL]hotelsbyday.com[/URL] and they offer like 9-3 at a really good price. Haven't been able to find availability during peak season but off season I have been able to get a nice hotel at $100 and have a great nooner. Recommend you check it out.

[QUOTE=Akibono;2615914] Had anyone had an issue with just vacating a room without formally checking out? I am in my home area and just use the room for a few hours. Not sure if there is a better option. Most hotels still don't have remote checking and checkout.[/QUOTE]What Steve says is correct. In the United States, you can just walk out of the hotel without formally checking out. If you want to just use the hotel room for a few hours, then no problem. No need to return to the hotel the next day to formally check out.

Are you wearing a condom? If so, then this is a common problem. I also have problems cumming in pussy when I am wearing a condom.

But if you're looking for a solution, then I do not know what to tell you.

I actually do not need to cum, since I can do that by myself. I like fucking, which I cannot do by myself, and so fucking someone for a couple of hours without cumming is no problem for me.

I just got back from a business trip. Fucked 13 times in 8 days with 9 different gals. I think I only came once, or maybe it was twice. For the girls, it totally confuses them when I just leave without cumming. They apologize profusely, but I tell them that I'm quite content and very happy. Especially watching them and caressing them as they are blowing me is just so satisfying.

[QUOTE=CgSingh;2615807]Hi guys,

Fortunately I stumbled upon this forum. I am from India. I've been reading your posts and honestly, love them. They are so knowledgeable and give inputs on various facets of sugar-babe scene.

Friends, I am 52 and 6 feet tall, slim and exercise to keep myself fit. Girls find me handsome (no jokes, they told me). I have a query for you. I'd be most obliged if you guys share your thoughts on it. Buddies, I do take a Pill before sex but I can only come once a week in pussy. I can fuck well for a long time but the satisfaction of releasing in pussy every 4/5 days is elusive to me. I have spoken to many docs and experts In India and they told me at my age, body system needs time at least 5 days for it to again build up. This SA and girls are addictive and cannot let go of them easily too. You'll understand my dilemma. I have tried 6 girls in Aug and September but my experiment failed and it's a total waste of money and mood spoiler by ultimately having a HJ or BJ. Girls have been good to me and understand it but it's for my own satisfaction to release in Pussy.

Buddies, I need your advice as to how you manage and do it if you do it on a frequent basis. Like Steve, I read your reports and find that you cum easily; perhaps minimum with 2 girls in a week. Not counting numbers but I wish to have a new new girl and cum in pussy and not in mouth or by a HJ. Sometimes, it's ok to have a combination of all and get a mix of all 3 but I get ultimate satisfaction of cuming in pussy.

I know it's my first post but I do look forward to everyone's views on my issue. Kindly do share your views on it.

Thanks in advance.[/QUOTE].

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2616001]Are you wearing a condom? If so, then this is a common problem. I also have problems cumming in pussy when I am wearing a condom.

But if you're looking for a solution, then I do not know what to tell you.

I actually do not need to cum, since I can do that by myself. I like fucking, which I cannot do by myself, and so fucking someone for a couple of hours without cumming is no problem for me.

I just got back from a business trip. Fucked 13 times in 8 days with 9 different gals. I think I only came once, or maybe it was twice. For the girls, it totally confuses them when I just leave without cumming. They apologize profusely, but I tell them that I'm quite content and very happy. Especially watching them and caressing them as they are blowing me is just so satisfying..[/QUOTE]When I was younger, I used to think the orgasm was the only goal. Today, I much prefer a longer fuck than an orgasm. It is all about the pleasure and how to control it. When you have an orgasm, your mind releases pleasure chemicals which have a good effect on the body because it reduces stress. However, there is a limited supply. So, once you have a release, you need time to recharge. However, when you fuck, you can control the release of those chemicals. Not only does a longer, slower release feels better, but you get that feeling over a longer period. As I grow older, I understand that sex is not binary. It is more like an oscillating curve that you have some control over (the girl has some control too). You can play beautiful music by changing the rhythm. It is amazing how sometimes the intensity is just shy of an orgasm. Getting to that dream state is the goal.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2615958]Oh and Akibono on the checkin at 4 thing this depends how busy they are. At certain times of year I've been able to checkin as early as 1230. That said U should checkout day use hotels. There is [URL]dayuse.com[/URL] and [URL]hotelsbyday.com[/URL] and they offer like 9-3 at a really good price. Haven't been able to find availability during peak season but off season I have been able to get a nice hotel at $100 and have a great nooner. Recommend you check it out.[/QUOTE]Damn that is a nice solution. My SB is pushing for earlier times. A cheaper day rate is nice. The problem I have faced is that hotels lack cleaning staff. Thus the room may be available but not cleaned. I guess you have to put up with the looks of the staff since they probably know exactly what is going on. I text my SB the room number and we try not to be seen together.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2616001]I just got back from a business trip. Fucked 13 times in 8 days with 9 different gals.

.[/QUOTE]Dude you are slaying it! You make us proud! Would love some more details of where you went and about the venues and girl experiences either here or by PM if you prefer. Rock on!

Steve, since you asked. For work, I had to go to Beijing, my old stomping grounds. But TBH, it was nothing special. I mostly fucked some of my favorite WGs that I know. I did meet a former SB, and I think you will find that part of my trip to be super frustrating. BTW, Steve, you're mentioned in Day 5 of this FR.

I invited a former SB to go with me and stay for a few nights. I will call her TW (titless wonder). TW used to live in Shanghai, but she's a single mother and decided to move back home to raise her son who is now of an age that needs a mom full time. TW is tall, attractive, and despite her age, she has a very tight bod. She loves DATY, which she didn't even know was a thing until I introduced her to it. When she lived in Shanghai, I was helping her out with $600 per month rent, but then she started asking for a $900 per month allowance too. To be fair, this is still less than the market price for an SB in Shanghai. But after having been with her about 20 times, it was getting stale and I balked at the allowance, and that was part of the reason she moved.

Day 1, two gals. I arrive on Sunday. Met a former FWB and we fucked for almost two hours. Then I went to an MP to relax. My masseuse was nothing special, mid-40's. To my surprise, there was a happy ending, but in the middle of it, she said she could blow me for $45 tip. So I said sure. She was really into it. My guess is because my cock is totally bald. So then on a whim, I asked her to fuck me, and she refused, but I said just do it for a minute. After a brief hesitation, she pulled down her pants and underwear and started jack hammering me bareback. Again, I think she did it because she was really liking my totally bald cock. The jack hammering lasted for about 20 seconds. Then she started giving me a hand job. But I begged for her to fuck me again, and she did. Another 20 seconds. Then she finished with CIM. Afterwards, she asked if I could give her more than $45, and I gave her $75 and she was thrilled. I got her WeChat, but I was not determined to see her again. I had limited time, after all. Plus, her better days were behind her. And she was just desperate for any kind of money grab, which was a bit of a turn off.

Day 2, just TW. So, on Monday, I show up at work and worked all day. TW was arriving later that night. Suddenly, late afternoon, TW texts me telling me that she suddenly got her period! WTF?! I think I totally got munsoned and I am pretty pissed off. I was stuck with her for the next three nights. So I thought about getting quickie before seeing her, but I couldn't get out of work, and work eventually became a working dinner, and I couldn't get free until around 10 pm. I go meet TW at our hotel. We shower and she blows me in bed, and I get really horny and so we started fucking, and it felt great. But sure enough, there's blood everywhere, and we spend the next 30 minutes scrubbing the sheets as clean as possible. Afterwards, we shared a bottle of wine and we pass out.

Day 3, three gals. I finish up some work by lunchtime on Tuesday. I have to be back for a company dinner. Since TW is not fuckable, I decide to try to fuck three girls that afternoon. And so I first went to see one of my favorite WGs. She is super duper tiny. Fucking her is like fucking a fairy or an elf. It was great seeing her again. She knows me well, and so she let's me bareback her. Barebacking a WG is probably the dumbest thing to do ever, especially given the fact that she fucks several guys every day. Anyway, after about an hour of fucking her, I am off to girl #2. She is also a favorite WG of mine. Amazing body. Cute butt, very big and firm nice tits for a Chinese girl, and actually everything is firm. She has the body of a 23 year old, and that's because she is 23 years old, haha. She's actually a lesbian, but she loves cock. Go figure. Anyway, we fucked for about 30 minutes. She let me bareback her for the first time. Again, stupid of me. Then I am off to girl #3. She's also a WG, but she's a new gal for me. Just wanted to try a new person to see if I can add to my stable. But she was disappointing. Just average looking, though service was good. I was saving my nut to bust inside of gal #3, but because she was not hot, I couldn't do it, and besides, I was wearing a condom, and it's hard for me to cum with a condom. So, after three days, I fucked 6 gals, but haven't cum yet. Crazy. That night, after work dinner, I go out with TW and I get drunk and then I pass out in bed with her. We just slept together like an old married couple.

Day 4, two gals. Similar to Day 3, but the elf had a tight schedule because she was fucking someone at 1 pm, then 3 pm, then 5 pm, so I couldn't squeeze into her schedule. So I just went to see the lesbian. Then I tried out another new WG, but this one was flabby, so again I couldn't bust a nut. BTW, I could only see two girls on Wednesday because I decided to work out in the gym after lunch, and so I was tight on time. I go back to the office for a working dinner, and then I went out with TW again and got drunk. She started calling me a drunk, which was annoying. Again, we slept together that night like an old married couple.

Day 5, two gals. Similar to Day 4, but this time it's with the elf and with the lesbian. I might have finally cum with the lesbian, but I cannot remember now. BTW, while I was in K9 with her, I just could not believe how amazing her body was, and I asked her if I could take a picture of me doing her doggy style. She said sure. So I took a couple of pictures of her with my cock fully inside of her and with my cock halfway inside of her. I took the latter picture so that I can show Steve the picture of my bald cock. I've never uploaded pics onto ISG and was excited to finally do it. But as I was admiring the pics in the taxi, I realize that having these pics on my phone was probably dumb, and so I deleted them. Sorry, Steve. Anyway, TW left that day. So I was a free man that night. But this was our last working dinner and we got stupid hammered on baijiu (similar to vodka, but 106 proof). I was so hammered that I went back to my hotel room and passed out and woke up around 2 am. My first free night without TW is wasted! So I just went out and got a bucket of KFC and returned to my hotel room and got hammered again and then ate the entire bucket of KFC and then passed out again.

Day 6, no gals. It's Friday, and my last day of work on this business trip. Unfortunately, with all the fucking that I did during the afternoons on Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday, I was very behind on my work. And I ended up working all day and night. When I finally finished, I was not in the mood to fuck. And besides, I was feeling hungover from the night before and I also felt disgusting because I had an entire bucket of fried chicken inside of my belly and I was also constipated from it. So I nursed a beer and went to bed.

Day 7, three gals. I start out the morning with a humongous shit. I bet it weighed over 3 pounds. I felt great afterwards. It's a Saturday, my only free day, and I was feeling really good, super horny, and quite ambitious, and so I am thinking about trying to fuck five girls that day. I started the morning with the FWB. Then I saw a WG that I know. She may have the best body out of everyone from this trip, but she is a hard core WG and has always treated me like a customer, and so I'm never in a rush to see her. But seeing and feeling that amazing body of hers was making me regret not seeing her earlier, and more often. Oh well. Then, I went to see another WG. And it's only around 1 pm, and so I am thinking that maybe I will be able to fuck 5 girls that day, maybe even 6. The third gal is also someone that I've known for a long time, and so she also let's me bareback her. While I was fucking her, she begged for me to bust my nut inside of her. She said she took medicine. Maybe that meant she was on the pill. I did not want to cum, because I still wanted to fuck two or three more girls that day, but the idea of cumming inside of her was too tempting and so I busted a nut inside of her. Then I ate lunch. Then I took a nap. After I woke up, I had zero desire to fuck. So I spent the rest of the day watching movies on my iPad and that night at a bar with a friend of mine.

Day 8, I returned home.

So I barebacked FWB twice, barebacked MP gal once, barebacked TW once, barebacked elf twice, barebacked lesbian three times, cover fucked new WG #1 once, cover fucked new WG #2 once, cover fucked old WG #1 once, and barebacked old WG #2 once.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2616075]Dude you are slaying it! You make us proud! Would love some more details of where you went and about the venues and girl experiences either here or by PM if you prefer. Rock on![/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=CgSingh;2615807]Hi guys,

Fortunately I stumbled upon this forum. I am from India. I've been reading your posts and honestly, love them. They are so knowledgeable and give inputs on various facets of sugar-babe scene.

Friends, I am 52 and 6 feet tall, slim and exercise to keep myself fit. Girls find me handsome (no jokes, they told me). I have a query for you. I'd be most obliged if you guys share your thoughts on it. Buddies, I do take a Pill before sex but I can only come once a week in pussy. I can fuck well for a long time but the satisfaction of releasing in pussy every 4/5 days is elusive to me. I have spoken to many docs and experts In India and they told me at my age, body system needs time at least 5 days for it to again build up. This SA and girls are addictive and cannot let go of them easily too. You'll understand my dilemma. I have tried 6 girls in Aug and September but my experiment failed and it's a total waste of money and mood spoiler by ultimately having a HJ or BJ. Girls have been good to me and understand it but it's for my own satisfaction to release in Pussy.[/QUOTE]Steve's Japanese condoms suggestion is a very good idea. I suspect the women will make a high pitch squeal when you enter them like the Japanese porn girls. (That's a joke.) Steve's recommendation to try different sexual position angles is spot on. Some positions increase the friction applied to your penis.

There are a variety of other things than can help.

Cut down on watching porn. Men are highly visually stimulated. Porn can cause overstimulation in the male brain. Less stimulation from porn can help your stimulation with a woman.

Stop masturbating for a week or two before going on a sex trip or SA binge. Try less aggressive ways to masturbate.

Topical Vitamin E oils and other ointments are also believed to help penile sensitivity. These should be applied daily for several weeks before you will see benefits.

I would start reading information on the internet from reputable medical sites. There is a lot out there.

Can't believe you had all this juicy detail queued up in your brain and were hoarding it until I prompted you! You bad boy!

Great FR. I literally LOL as I visualized a hopelessly drunk MW consuming a whole bucket of KFC. Hahaha. Still laughing.

Keep it up man (literally and figuratively)! The girls that is. Not mass KFC consumption!

I had heard of girls being flaky from SA, but I simply had never experienced it in any manner that would make it notable. That has firmly changed. I now know how real the flake truly is.

There was a choice to go to Seattle or Phoenix. I would have happily gone to Europe but I didn't' want to deal with Covid tests, etc. I don't keep a membership to Seeking, so I usually join for a month around the time of my travel. This has worked really well. Simple pattern: Start chatting girls up around 10 days before arrival, pull some of them over to whatsapp, schedule multiple meets and I usually end up canceling a date with those not selected and meet them some other day. 95% of my experience has been in Europe, so this was what I'm used to. The girls may be nervous, but they show up and they are down AF to actually meet in person.

After my Madrid trip, I had another 3 weeks of membership to burn, so I scouted Seattle and Phoenix for SB. Phoenix won for reasons besides mongering. So I chatted up multiple girls from Phoenix and moved over to regular texting. Had a few strong SBs that were really eager for me to "return". They sent pics, hit me up with some frequency and I kept them warm and waiting. Finally it was time for me to head to phoenix and I would have never expected what happened next.

I had the dancer, the professor, the waitress, the shorthaired MILF, the pastry chef, the pale girl, the short girl, the ethiopian, the stay-in girl, and the tattooed girl all in constant communication awaiting my arrival. Here comes the flakery. The day before I arrived, two girls rescinded their interest, and one completely stopped responding so I was down to 7 possibilities with one that only wanted to hang out indoors (escort). One said that they found someone and the other said they would feel too much like a ****.

Cool. With 7 left and using my european experience as a guide, this was more than enough for a solid week for fun and banging. On the day I arrived, I scheduled 4 dates at the same time, now fully aware that the flake exist. By the time I touched ground, all of them canceled. W T F!

They all scheduled follow up dates later in the week. As the days came and I reached out to set things up, they all were ready for the night, but when it was time to meet, crickets. Complete ghosts. By Tuesday, only 4 girls were still responding, although selectively. I set up a time with pale girl and she kept in contact all day, until it was time to meet. Then crickets. I set up another time to meet with 2 of them, one primary and one backup. Both went silent. Pale girl texted me the next day and promised that she was down to hang out. Short girl said she needed rent money and was super down to hang out as well. By this time, it was Wednesday, so I figured maybe I was getting a slow start. When 6 pm came, crickets from both of them all night.

I hit up a strip club and it was empty. After sitting next to an attractive dancer and buying a few drinks, she chatted me up. She told me about her sexual freedom and that she was an SB before. I told her about my issues and that I was in the market for someone reliable. She was down and asked if we could hang out Thursday night. I said hell yeah. I gave her my number and told her to text me later. To my surprise, she did.

Now let me say that I really wanted to bang short girl. She was flaky AF, but there are some girls that you want to bang more than others. The short girl hits me on Thursday ready and willing, as in times past, but this time was a little different. She kept in touch all day, returned text messages, and was generally curious about where we were going to go. This behavior was different than before. The stripper now contacted me on Thursday multiple times to confirm our later meeting, though slow in her responses. I confirmed. Now, I was stuck with at the fork in the road. Go for the seemingly not flaky stripper that wants more of an emotional connection from her SD, or the short girl that I really wanted to bang. Choices, choices. I got busy as the day continued and when I didn't' write the stripper back for an hour around 4 pm, she made other plans thinking that I was flaking on her. I was used to the flake by this point, and thought that at least I'll bang the short girl. Crickets! WTF!! The short girl wrote me around 10 PM (about 3 hours after I wrote her) and told me that she's in the bed and really doesn't want to come out this late and furthermore if she did, it would be quick. No hang out or chill, just bang and go home. I declined and she then offered to come by in the morning on Friday.

I was leaving on Friday but my morning was free. I figured I would bang the short girl with morning wood and then jump on my flight. She was serious this time. I guess she needed the money. She hit me up at 7 AM ready to rock. I gave her my address and told her to come on by. She's called and texted and really made an effort. As she got closer, I decided that I'm only going to bang her if she is exactly what I want. So I figured I would wait outside and scope her out before actually meeting. I saw her from my very close vantage point and in person, she was awkward and not super attractive, even enough to break my morning wood. I realized that this was pretty much an escort experience and I wasn't in the market for one of those, so I called an audible. I ghosted the girl who had ghosted me for 5 days and left Phoenix thinking of what a shit show it really was. I am now intimately acquainted with the flake. It's not all rainbows and excellent sessions. I'm just keeping it real. The wins and the losses.

As I write this, there are 3 girls in Madrid keeping in contact. A Spanish girl (already banged) asking when I'm coming back to Madrid, another Madrid girl wanting to meet, and an italian girl also in Madrid that has been keeping in contact for the last 3 months and we still haven't met. The EU has spoiled me, for real. I know there are good experiences to be had in the US, but from my experience, it's takes more work to achieve the same results. After the world opens up, I'm heading to Asia for some exploration.

02 +.

[QUOTE=LshRoomer;2616141]I had heard of girls being flaky from SA, but I simply had never experienced it in any manner that would make it notable. That has firmly changed. I now know how real the flake truly is.

.[/QUOTE]I have been flaked on countless number of times, in Medellin, Bogota, Rio, CDMX. I was always wondering how other guys manage to fuck so many girls in a short period of time. I simply can't, even if I wanted to. I consider myself lucky if I score 2 dates per week (even with repeat girls). I rarely see negative reports here, most of them are indeed rainbows and unicorns. Thanks for sharing!

[QUOTE=LshRoomer;2616141]As I write this, there are 3 girls in Madrid keeping in contact. A Spanish girl (already banged) asking when I'm coming back to Madrid, another Madrid girl wanting to meet, and an italian girl also in Madrid that has been keeping in contact for the last 3 months and we still haven't met. The EU has spoiled me, for real. I know there are good experiences to be had in the US, but from my experience, it's takes more work to achieve the same results. After the world opens up, I'm heading to Asia for some exploration.

02 +.[/QUOTE]LOL. Maybe guys here have not been honest about the USA, but I thought I had been. In a good month on SA, I will get 3 responses / dates from the USA, 100 in Mexico, and 300 in Colombia. I imagine similar responses rates to Colombia in Brazil and Argentina from what I have seen.

You always take the one in hand in the USA. Having 7 responses and being stood up X 7 is to be expected. Unless I get a text from an American woman that day, I do not even bother going. It gets better in the USA when the women know you, but you have huge hoops to jump through to get there. And it is not just the USA. Even in the Latin nations, I get blown off until the women meet me.

I do have a set of American women where I guess I could rekindle things. Sure, they would make you spin your head but of these last three, one was a stunning college cheerleader but bipolar as hell, one had her car monitored for excessive drinking, and one was a stripper. Hell, the female stripper had a BF who was a male stripper. I look down my nose at them but truthfully, they were all top 10% in the bed room, and most men would look at me and say, "Hey, you are lucky to have any of these women."

It is like Steve settling for a fattie. Yeah, you can. I guess with me, the question is why. What is top 10% in the USA is top 25% in Mexico and top 50% in Colombia. I would rather just save my shekles and travel abroad. Hell, my state of Texas is so fucked up that prostitution is now a felony and abortion is illegal. Who wants to fuck here? And we probably have the best looking women left. Shit, some of the Dallas Cowboy cheerleaders now are big boned.

You should have hooked up with the stripper. Always take the woman in the USA that is in hand. Always! But I doubt you missed out on anything that great. It sounds like the EU like Latin America has the USA beat.

[QUOTE=Akibono;2616025]Damn that is a nice solution. My SB is pushing for earlier times. A cheaper day rate is nice. The problem I have faced is that hotels lack cleaning staff. Thus the room may be available but not cleaned. I guess you have to put up with the looks of the staff since they probably know exactly what is going on. I text my SB the room number and we try not to be seen together.[/QUOTE]Oh absolutely the hotel staff have seen it all before. And yes day use rooms kinda have one purpose. LOL. But def get used to some of the side eye particularly in restaurants. Harder for the girl than me because I couldn't give two fucks what some repressed geezer lady thinks. But I'm amazed at how some of the girls just totally ignore it.

Like Kayla wears nearly see thru dresses and no bra with her DCups. And damn Uma was wearing a short leather skirt and some fuck me boots and showing a ton of her double DDs and here she is sitting across from me chatting amiably as some matron looks on. They are both black and the way they are dressed there is no mistaking it for the daddy daughter dance. But they just rock on and don't give a fuck either. I think Uma in particular has complete confidence. Sexy black woman soon to be a doctor. She knows she stands out in a crowd.

[QUOTE=MiamiBoy1;2616168]I have been flaked on countless number of times, in Medellin, Bogota, Rio, CDMX. I was always wondering how other guys manage to fuck so many girls in a short period of time. I simply can't, even if I wanted to. I consider myself lucky if I score 2 dates per week (even with repeat girls). I rarely see negative reports here, most of them are indeed rainbows and unicorns. Thanks for sharing![/QUOTE]I think everyone on here has been honest about how DIFFICULT it is to get a good SA date, especially in the USA. I recently stated this in an earlier report:

"When I was active on SA in the USA, I spent at least 20 hours each week on the website. No exagerration. During a 20 month period, I probably contacted five to ten thousand gals, conversed with one or two thousand, and met about a hundred. I eventually had relations with about two dozen SBs. ".

So, I averaged about one good SB per month. If you are scoring two dates per week, then you are doing better than most of us.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2616460]I think everyone on here has been honest about how DIFFICULT it is to get a good SA date, especially in the USA. I recently stated this in an earlier report:

"When I was active on SA in the USA, I spent at least 20 hours each week on the website. No exagerration. During a 20 month period, I probably contacted five to ten thousand gals, conversed with one or two thousand, and met about a hundred. I eventually had relations with about two dozen SBs. ".

So, I averaged about one good SB per month. If you are scoring two dates per week, then you are doing better than most of us.[/QUOTE]Yes, I agree. M. Boy tends to leave out details and complains a lot. I have talked about my failures many times, so have most of the guys. I do not think anyone says it is easy in the states.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2616481]Yes, I agree. M. Boy tends to leave out details and complains a lot. I have talked about my failures many times, so have most of the guys. I do not think anyone says it is easy in the states.[/QUOTE]Def a ton of work on the front end but the flake rate on the backend should not be as high as LShroomer experienced. Maybe it was just bad luck but I wonder if the girls were the right type and he invested enough. When I travel I invest heavily in chatting with 1-3 girls and make them feel like my girlfriend chatting every night (and part of it is they are willing to invest at this level also). Seems like having 10 girls on the hook and scheduling four for the same date time might send an unintentional signal they are disposable.

I have had 3 local girls flake or try to scam me but literally 20 for 20 in US where I fly in and the meetup happens as planned. Could be pure luck but I'm inclined to believe it's that we are both already "in a mini relationship" when I land. And only clear non-pros are willing to engage at this level, so that is a filter also.

PS maybe its just me but I never schedule two girls for the same time. My approach is to schedule my fave for night 1 and second fave for night 2 and 3rd place for night three (if there is deep enough bench like Vegas). Then repeat with my fave(s) nights 4 and 5.

PPS To be full disclosure I have had an additional 3 where the meetup happened so not a flake but the sex did not. Only one was a true fail where we had mad chemistry and she balked in the room. The other two were early in my journey. One the wrong age range snd a breakfast meet and one that I woulda closed without batting an eye if it was today.

My formula from the school of hard knocks is simple — Age 22-26, heavy girlfriend level texting, meetup for dinner and close with sex same night. Never lunch or breakfast. Never just a meet and greet. Always dinner and sex after.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2616546]Def a ton of work on the front end but the flake rate on the backend should not be as high as LShroomer experienced. Maybe it was just bad luck but I wonder if the girls were the right type and he invested enough. When I travel I invest heavily in chatting with 1-3 girls and make them feel like my girlfriend chatting every night (and part of it is they are willing to invest at this level also). Seems like having 10 girls on the hook and scheduling four for the same date time might send an unintentional signal they are disposable.

I have had 3 local girls flake or try to scam me but literally 20 for 20 in US where I fly in and the meetup happens as planned. Could be pure luck but I'm inclined to believe it's that we are both already "in a mini relationship" when I land. And only clear non-pros are willing to engage at this level, so that is a filter also.

PS maybe its just me but I never schedule two girls for the same time. My approach is to schedule my fave for night 1 and second fave for night 2 and 3rd place for night three (if there is deep enough bench like Vegas). Then repeat with my fave(s) nights 4 and 5..[/QUOTE]Great advice as always. I have adopted many of the same strategies. In the states I would never meet a girl during the day, it will be a total waste of time. Either they will be on the phone all the time or I will be. Now in Russia and Mexico I do meet girls all the time during the day and no issues.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2617013]Great advice as always. I have adopted many of the same strategies. In the states I would never meet a girl during the day, it will be a total waste of time. Either they will be on the phone all the time or I will be. Now in Russia and Mexico I do meet girls all the time during the day and no issues.[/QUOTE]I know u know all this DF but for the Newbies and experimenters…

There are lots of pluses for doing dinner and pushing for the SNL (single night lay). Even tho I do it because I've found it most effective I think there are clear reasons it's more effective.

1. Dinner is more relaxed and intimate and romantic.

2. You are both drinking. Beer goggles work both directions.

3. If you let her think overnight then in the light of day this old guy idea might not seem too good. But once you have fucked and she enjoys it and is comfortable w you then you are in for good.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2617083]I know u know all this DF but for the Newbies and experimenters

There are lots of pluses for doing dinner and pushing for the SNL (single night lay). Even tho I do it because I've found it most effective I think there are clear reasons it's more effective.

1. Dinner is more relaxed and intimate and romantic.

2. You are both drinking. Beer goggles work both directions.

3. If you let her think overnight then in the light of day this old guy idea might not seem too good. But once you have fucked and she enjoys it and is comfortable w you then you are in for good.[/QUOTE]Yep, this is the only way. Once you both relax you can enjoy a great night, who know what might happen.

I had a couple of girls say I have 2 your, for example 1-3 pm. I would reply politely, no. I can only meet for dinner or drinks because of my work schedule.

Laredo is the best.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2617013]Great advice as always. I have adopted many of the same strategies. In the states I would never meet a girl during the day, it will be a total waste of time. Either they will be on the phone all the time or I will be. Now in Russia and Mexico I do meet girls all the time during the day and no issues.[/QUOTE]

For the first meet, the flake rate is very high indeed. For me, maybe it was about 80%, with most of them being last minute cancellations. Sometimes they just did not show up, but that was kind of rare. Some would cancel well in advance, but that was also rare.

I won't go into all the reasons why the flaking happens, but just expect it.

Therefore, (1) don't book a hotel room in advance on a first date, and (2) have a backup plan.

I don't know how many times I drove over an hour for a first date, only to be flaked on and then stuck with a paid-for hotel room.

Eventually, I chose meeting places that I wanted to check out anyway. So, when the date flaked, I at least got to check out a new bar or new neighborhood.

Also, for the first date, I stopped doing dinners. For me, they were hit or miss, and when they were a miss, then I was stuck on a boring date for two painful hours. That said, when the dinner date was going well, it went very well. So, totally hit or miss, and given the misses, I stopped doing dinner dates as a first date.

For the second dates, the flake rate was almost zero for me, and I assume similar for you guys.

As for flying SA girls to meet me somewhere, I only did it twice, and both times they showed up. However, this was only after we were seeing each other. I would never fly a girl into town for a first date. Many girls say they are willing to do that, but I never took the chance.

Anyway, my attitude for first dates with an SA gal was to not have high expectations. You might then ask why I bothered. That is because there were the occassional pleasant surprises, and that made all the time and work worthwhile.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2616546]Def a ton of work on the front end but the flake rate on the backend should not be as high as LShroomer experienced. Maybe it was just bad luck but I wonder if the girls were the right type and he invested enough. When I travel I invest heavily in chatting with 1-3 girls and make them feel like my girlfriend chatting every night (and part of it is they are willing to invest at this level also). Seems like having 10 girls on the hook and scheduling four for the same date time might send an unintentional signal they are disposable.

I have had 3 local girls flake or try to scam me but literally 20 for 20 in US where I fly in and the meetup happens as planned. Could be pure luck but I'm inclined to believe it's that we are both already "in a mini relationship" when I land. And only clear non-pros are willing to engage at this level, so that is a filter also.

PS maybe its just me but I never schedule two girls for the same time. My approach is to schedule my fave for night 1 and second fave for night 2 and 3rd place for night three (if there is deep enough bench like Vegas). Then repeat with my fave(s) nights 4 and 5.

PPS To be full disclosure I have had an additional 3 where the meetup happened so not a flake but the sex did not. Only one was a true fail where we had mad chemistry and she balked in the room. The other two were early in my journey. One the wrong age range snd a breakfast meet and one that I woulda closed without batting an eye if it was today.

My formula from the school of hard knocks is simple Age 22-26, heavy girlfriend level texting, meetup for dinner and close with sex same night. Never lunch or breakfast. Never just a meet and greet. Always dinner and sex after.[/QUOTE]I did notice something very odd in Phoenix. The girls that I landed had a decent sized age spread. They went from 19 - 45 with the average age about 28. I actually assumed that dealing with an older SB might make the dealings more solid (less flaky). I intentionally didn't text them too hard during the time that I was away in order not to seem like a bullshitter. That may have backfired a bit, as it took away that boyfriend prep feeling that Steve talked about. I agree that the heavy texting works to get them accustomed to the idea of you and at that point, a date feels a bit more normal.

Phoenix was bad, but screw it, it's all part of it. Some you bang, some you don't. My flake rate was abnormally high, but maybe the stars just didn't align or something. I used a different tactic this time as well, which I think probably put too much time between pulling them off of SA and actually meeting them in person. Usually that process takes about 10 days. You are fresh, they like you, and they are willing to meet. In this case, it was more than 30 days and even with texting, things probably just got stale. Lessons learned.

I don't mind scheduling 2 girls on the same night. I did 4 in this case because I saw the flake happening before I even landed. LOL.

Two girls at different times in one night gives me options to potentially call an audible if things are just not going well. The good thing is that I haven't had many girls that I didn't' click with once we hung out. I'm prepping to hit Madrid again in 2 weeks and I have one super solid SB that I've already banged, so I'll cement the relationship a bit more. The italian girl has been very responsive, so I need to officially meet her (I'm surprised she kept in contact this long). She told me that she moved to Madrid (instead of the outskirts), so she has more time now. I'm looking forward to adding her to my list, seriously. The heavy texting will begin in about a week or so and we'll see what happens.

02.

Hey Steve,

Many thanks for replying. My apologies for late response to you and others too as had been busy working. I use a Durex condom and yes, I have tried Durex ultra thin; same, it's as good as no rubber on your dick. It's recently launched here and is a massive hit with men. With regards to your suggestion about Okamotos, I'll order and get them too but with Durex ultra thin, It's like man I am fucking bareback. It really is as if nothing on cock.

I am a big big big fan of missionary with tones of DFK and tongue action. If a girl is not into DFK, either my johnny doesn't sing or I lose interest because for me that is the most intimate thing in the entire experience. I will certainly try the position you suggested.

And yeah, Steve, you are right about me focusing on my orgasm.

I do love CIM. Girls have asked me how can I make you cum and then I did release in their mouths. No complaints on that front. I have a couple of them who like giving BJs and can really go long on it in spite of their neck paining but they still persist with it.

Thank you for suggestions and replies.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2615934]I have several thoughts here (is anyone surprised? First let me dispel the myth that I can cum many times from fucking. Yes I've had occasion to cum with 5 different girls in 24 hours (twice) but only one of those usually the first or secondbis in pussy. That's because in pussy is usually condoms and condoms suck. Oh and your doctor is full of shit.

So the place to start is get condoms that suck less. In fact if you aren't girthy you can get condoms that are almost not there. Get the Okamoto 01's. These are amazing. You hardly feel they are there. And you can feel her pussy heat if a girl is into you. Only problem is they are super small. Even the large is too tight on me but I am girthy. If you are more regular size get the large and you will be in heaven. You can get them from Allfromjapan if you are outside Japan. Barring the Okamotos I've found Skyn to be good and thin and the girls like the non latex.[/QUOTE]

Yes, MW, I do wear a condom and I have no issue cuming in it. A few years ago, I did not but once had an infection; so 100% it's always with condom on it. It was a mind issue with me as far as condom was concerned as lost my erection immediately with it but not anymore. It's a sorted issue with me.

Thanks MW for sharing your experience and Wow, 13 times in 8 days; is like he came, he saw and he conquered. Great.

Thanks.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2616001]Are you wearing a condom? If so, then this is a common problem. I also have problems cumming in pussy when I am wearing a condom.

But if you're looking for a solution, then I do not know what to tell you.

I actually do not need to cum, since I can do that by myself. I like fucking, which I cannot do by myself, and so fucking someone for a couple of hours without cumming is no problem for me.

I just got back from a business trip. Fucked 13 times in 8 days with 9 different gals. I think I only came once, or maybe it was twice. For the girls, it totally confuses them when I just leave without cumming. They apologize profusely, but I tell them that I'm quite content and very happy. Especially watching them and caressing them as they are blowing me is just so satisfying.[/QUOTE]

Hi,

I'll give it a try; the Japanese condoms and the sexual position Steve suggested.

No, I do not watch porn at all and neither do I masturbate. But, yes, sometimes to have a release I am into DFK and a HJ; I love that if done slowly, sexily and right way. Some girls love this too. Had a couple of nice experiences on this.

Thank you for sharing information on the Vitamin E oils. I will read and see how it could be of use and help to me.

Thanks again.

[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2616113]Steve's Japanese condoms suggestion is a very good idea. I suspect the women will make a high pitch squeal when you enter them like the Japanese porn girls. (That's a joke.) Steve's recommendation to try different sexual position angles is spot on. Some positions increase the friction applied to your penis.

There are a variety of other things than can help.

Cut down on watching porn. Men are highly visually stimulated. Porn can cause overstimulation in the male brain. Less stimulation from porn can help your stimulation with a woman.

Stop masturbating for a week or two before going on a sex trip or SA binge. Try less aggressive ways to masturbate.

Topical Vitamin E oils and other ointments are also believed to help penile sensitivity. These should be applied daily for several weeks before you will see benefits.

I would start reading information on the internet from reputable medical sites. There is a lot out there.[/QUOTE]

Just a quick up on the swingers club thing I mentioned a few weeks back. Damn it is much bigger and better than I expected. The one I went to in BA had maybe 10 couples and a few more in the bar area. This one in FL we pull up and there is a line down the block. At least 50 in line. We get in and there are 200 people in the main club area dancing and drinking and another 75 or 100 in the back in various states of sucking and fucking. It's totally classy and well run. Amazing. Who the fuck knew this was possible in pussy prison USA!

Tell us how you did!

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2618152]Just a quick up on the swingers club thing I mentioned a few weeks back. Damn it is much bigger and better than I expected. The one I went to in BA had maybe 10 couples and a few more in the bar area. This one in FL we pull up and there is a line down the block. At least 50 in line. We get in and there are 200 people in the main club area dancing and drinking and another 75 or 100 in the back in various states of sucking and fucking. It's totally classy and well run. Amazing. Who the fuck knew this was possible in pussy prison USA![/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=CgSingh;2615807]Hi guys,

Fortunately I stumbled upon this forum. I am from India. I've been reading your posts and honestly, love them. They are so knowledgeable and give inputs on various facets of sugar-babe scene.

I can fuck well for a long time but the satisfaction of releasing in pussy every 4/5 days is elusive to me.[/QUOTE]Yeah, so basically, you have the opposite of premature ejaculation. Here is a quote from the Mayo Clinic on premature ejaculation. "A side effect of certain antidepressants is delayed orgasm. For this reason, selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs), such as escitalopram (Lexapro), sertraline (Zoloft), paroxetine (Paxil) or fluoxetine (Prozac, Sarafem), are used to help delay ejaculation.

Of those approved for use in the United States, paroxetine seems to be the most effective. These medications usually take five to 10 days to begin working. But it might take two to three weeks of treatment before you'll see the full effect. End quote.

Thing is if raising serotonin prevents guys from coming than lowering it should make it easier for you to cum. Most antihistamines lower serotonin but periactin or generic name cyprohepatdine lowers serotonin the best. Usually antihistamines kill sex drive but this is just a cold medicine and who knows? Maybe it will work for you. It cannot hurt to try.

Back to Mayo, "Anesthetic creams and sprays that contain a numbing agent, such as benzocaine, lidocaine or prilocaine, are sometimes used to treat premature ejaculation."

So again, you want to do the opposite of that and to achieve the opposite of those numbing creams, you would use caffeine and / or Tylenol.

For me, stimulants make the orgasm a lot better, and in my advanced age, I can control when I cum so they are a net plus for me, but for others, it may cause them to shoot too quickly.

As for condoms, two things changed my mind about them, and I use them as infrequently as I can. The first was when I had these red bumps at the base of my dick after fucking with a condom. After looking at my dick a few hundred times, I concluded this was contact dermatitis and not herpes, used a steroid cream and the bumps went away. I later had a blood test showing I was negative for herpes to boot.

I then heard about this happening a few hundred times with other people. Thing is the latex in condoms is highly, highly allergenic and there have been reports of people being exposed to latex and dying on the spot from anaphylaxis. Latex allergies have been suggested to be as high as 20% of the population. Thing is that I have used condoms and not had these bumps so why did I get them that one time? I do not have a fucking clue.

The other thing that changed my mind is there was this huge study by the NIH that showed condoms do close to nothing with regards to STD transmission, and it was buried. I think the government did not want to back track and say that sex with condoms AKA safe sex was really not that safe. I am not recommending this but you live in India, and I think you can get antibiotics OTC there.

Anyway, when I was with someone new / strange and the gal was down for going bare, I would use antibiotics and antivirals to prevent STDs and I used Plan be or Levonorgestrel to prevent pregnancy. I am not telling you to do this, but it would be interesting to see if your issue is related to latex and condoms and going bare fixed it.

[QUOTE=CgSingh;2615807]I have spoken to many docs and experts In India and they told me at my age, body system needs time at least 5 days for it to again build up.[/QUOTE]I do not know what that even means. What are you building up? Sperm? You can do that with vegetables, testosterone, and the cold. If your testosterone is low or low normal, that could be something that needs to be built up with injections, but we are equipped to be fucking our whole lives. The good thing about sex and pleasure is the chemicals involved are not that complicated unlike say the fucking Krebs cycle. I kind of wonder how much your doctors really wanted to help you. What if they taught you to have better sex and you got a STD?

Kayla Third Visit Day 1.

Kayla is a super hot petite black girl with a rocking set of firm DCups who I discovered back in August and have spent two long weekends with, spaced about a month apart. Definitely one of the best SBs I've ever had and the only time I've ever declared a body the mythical ten. Perfect in every detail.

I arrive late in the evening grab the car and go pick her up at her place. We are staying at a five star beachside hotel that I got an amazing Hotwire price on ($215 vs normally 388-549/ night) and I got a sweet sports convertible also so it's my most luxe visit to date and does not disappoint. On the way to the hotel we pick up tampons because she is on the tail end of her period, but this turns out to be good news —Stay tuned.

Before dinner, I had to run get her dress from the car and it's stretchy material. I literally LOL in the elevator bringing it up that it is the size of an infant onesie! Haha it is amazing it will stretch to fit an adult human but when it does ain't nuthin to hide!

We eat dinner at a wonderful Asian Fusion place — similar vibe to the one we met at but beachside so a step up. She loves being treated like a princess (who doesn't) so dinner is fabulous. The great news about Kayla is she totally understands the deal without ever saying it. So if you treat her well and she is happy she's going to return the favor and then some.

After dinner we head to the swingers club. I am expecting a small venue with a few couples but instead am greeted by a line of fifty people waiting to get in. We get our alcohol at the liquor store right next door (it's BYOB) and the line goes pretty fast. Inside you pay up and they get you a couples membership. Fair warning here — they take your drivers license and key all that stuff in and it's on a screen where your date can no doubt see your real name and you hers. Too late now to worry about that, but a heads up to you. I'm sure you could avoid this if you knew ahead.

The club is amazing. It's broken into two sections. This first part is just like a regular nightclub. Easily 150 people there with maybe 30 people dancing and the rest just milling about drinking. It's couples night so no single guys but there are some single girls in the mix.

We check in our bottles at the bar and they tag them with our number. After that it's like a regular bar, with several bar tenders and you just order what you want and they will use your bottles to make your drink. It feels just like a regular club but you don't pay since it's your stuff and the cover charge covers the mixers and staff. Oh there is a full buffet all night (till 4 AM) as well. We didn't partake but it looked pretty good.

We spend a couple hours here just enjoying the vibe and dancing a bit. But at some time. Maybe midnight or so we adjourn to the back. This is a whole other part of the club thru some black double glass doors. We get our bottles and bring with because there is a separate bar in the back sex area. We check them in and get naked. Well not quite. It's like FKK where you go to a locker room and change into a towel only — but it's coed. Both of you change.

I've said before Kayla is the prettiest girl in the room and no exception here. But I will say it's at least a relatively fit crowd. No giant polar bears or their female equivalent. Besides the bar there are a bunch of big leather beds and couches with people in various states of nakedness and sex engagement.

It turns out Kayla is not quite the freak I expected, although we have a great time. She's a bit shy about doing it with people clustered right nearby or some guy watching us. So we just circulate for a while and enjoy the spectacle while sipping our drinks.

Eventually we settle on a deep couch next to a guy and she takes off my towel and starts one of her exceptional blow jobs. It's really great. This goes on quite a while but at some point we stop and wander some more. Back in another area where it's less crowded we settle in and she is ready to rumble. I don't recall some of it but eventually we are both fully on the leather bed me doing her doggie and neither of us really caring who is watching. It's a great rhythm and we are both driving jointly.

As I'm nearing climax she says something over her shoulder that sounds like "just don't cum inside" and I'm thinking yeah yeah I know the drill. But I didn't quite hear and when she repeats it's instead "You can cum inside because I'm finishing my period". Aha that is a whole different thing! And CIP I do with abandon. That's a super rare treat and feels amazing!

So we rock back to the hotel, top down playing her tunes full blast. She is literally hands in the air like she just don't care! Man she is having a blast. We both look at it like our mini vacation from reality.

Previously when we checked in we had admired the suite, which has a full living room with a big leather sectional and a balcony beyond. And so we had some laughs about doing it in the bed and on the couch and on the balcony. Well all that's going to come true over the next couple nights.

She only has on a slip on dress (onesie size!) - no bra and no panties so she is strolling naked to the balcony seconds after entering. Ok balcony will be venue one, ma'am!

I join her on the balcony and get naked pretty quick. Usually I like the undressing but she's already on her back on one of the chairs inviting me to fuck her. So I do. It's kinda a cool position because I've got my hands on the arms of the chair and kinda missionary at an angle but with feet on the floor. Damn we have a good fuck in that position.

There is a bunch more here that I can't remember clearly. But later we move to the bed and we have some more great mish, her holding her ankles up around her ears. She laments she doesn't have her vibrator, but she didn't get time to pack after work and just has her dress and purse. We will fix this tomorrow. In the meantime we switch to her giving me head to finish it out CIM.

This was truly one of my best orgasms ever. I had shaved my balls for her and this didn't go unnoticed. She was all over mixing in some sloppy ball work (seemed to enjoy it) and mixing that in with great shaft work, doe eyes, and enthusiasm usiam, I was on the edge for 10+ minutes. This only happened once before with Noleta and let me tell you it is to die for. With a crashing writhing finish. OMG.

I left out a bunch of detail that I can't recall because we were both lit and fucked forever. We started the evening at 7:30 pickup and crashed in the bed after CIM at straight up 3 AM! So we musta fucked a good long time. And of course one round at the club also.

Honestly as I was falling asleep and also the next day I was thinking "that was so good I could be done now. Just fly home. I am completely satisfied. " What a great feeling. But no. Much more to come.

Kayla Third Visit Day 2 and 3.

Before I get farther I should mention I've become a Cialis fan, having used Viagra before and liked it. But with Cialis I just pop it a bit before the evening starts and don't have to think about a recharge late night or anything. Even tho they can last a couple days it's fine to recharge daily so each day before dinner I pop one. Had great hardness when needed (often!) and not so much of the flushing I had with Viagra. Recommend.

So day 2 we go grab her stuff, including her vibrator, and get some brunch at a nearby beachside hotel that has amazing sushi. We both get something different but generally pick off each other's plates. We have the BFGF date food sharing thing down. And then I have to do some stuff later that day so we don't reconvene till dinner.

Dinner that night we go to a winery where the food is amazing but the wine sucks. Go figure. Then it's off to our favorite speakeasy and then the stripclub. At the speakeasy as at dinner there is nothing to do but talk. You would think that on the 8th date with a 23 year old we'the be out of things to talk about. But nope. It comes easy between us and we really enjoy our time there over two drinks.

The stripclub is nice but no one really she is attracted to. (Very narrow taste! Lots of hot girls). But she likes them more like herself. Dark and petite and this crowd was lily white, with maybe two Latinas. Oh well still was nice eye candy and my girl on my arm. It was still a fun time and we both enjoyed ourselves.

Back in the room she is super free and fun having gotten pretty lit again. She declines the balcony when she thinks people next door are out but this gives a chance to try the couch. And oh my we make it count.

The main section is long modern white leather thing. So lots of room to play. We start with me seated naked and she gives me an amazing BJ. Tons of sloppy ball work and she is bringing the doe eyes like there is no tomorrow and man fuck she is gorgeous.

She mounts up Cowgirl with me seated and I get a chance for lots of hands and mouth in tits. They are amazing and she loves having them sucked. Oh and she likes to grab her own tit and pull it to her mouth and suck it hard while being fucked. Seems like something you would see in a movie but nope it's right here on my lap!

Again we are at this forever because there is lots more to come. Next she is on her back lengthwise on the couch and has her vibrator going and really enjoying it. She gestures to bring my cock in close to her mouth. I am always a little careful not to gag a girl so I am letting her set the pace and depth. But she then she says "fuck my throat baby!" And being the good daddy I am I give her a deep throat fucking all the way to the hilt. She seems to really like this. In fact when I take a break she says "fuck my throat" again and pulls me back in deep.

Next she says let's put on some of my porn babe. So we get her phone and transition to the bed. We do doggie at the edge of the bed watching girl on girl action, which she loves. Then more mish. Then her vibrator dies. Boo. But trooper that she is she swaps to BJ and extended orgasm and CIM. Just as good as night one! Which I thought could not be equalled. Glad to be wrong.

And oh Midwestern yes. Ball shaving is key. She was totally all over that much more than last time. Great ball work every night.

So Day 3. She has a dentist appt that I drop her at and come get her so that's a bit of a pain with traffic and all. But she does have a life after all and she appreciates when I do more than just drop cash. Then we are back together. Same place for brunch because too good to not repeat. Then I do my thing and she gets some pool time and we reconvene for dinner.

Found an amazing gem of a wine bar and Italian restaurant that is literally a block from our hotel. I have no idea how I overlooked it till then. Kill a bottle and then some and enjoy the food immensely. We talked about a walk on the beach and conclude it's too cold so we head back upstairs.

Night three is less epic because we are both about drunk and fucked out. But it's fun nonetheless. We head to the balcony again and share some tea. But it's not long before she is in her chair snd I am standing and she is blowing me while working herself. I also get some quality FIV time as well.

Then she says "want to fuck me bent over the rail?" Awww aren't you sweet! So we give this a go but even in her heels, with our height differential it looks better in the movies than real life. Undeterred, we swivel the chair around so it's back is to the railing and she hops on in doggie position.

She's got her phone now and puts on some more porn. Two girls on a big black dick and plenty of girl on girl action. Other than at FKK never watched porn while fucking before and now that's two nights in a row. Got to say I'm a fan.

I mount up and man it is fine! I can grab the rail or her hips as I prefer and look out to the evening Beach and waves or watch the porn as I pound out a nice one.

We sleep the sleep of the dead and part with a morning kiss and that is the end of Kayla visit three! Stay tuned for more (I hope!) because I do believe Kayla has pulled into the all time best all around SB position and visit number four is in the works.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2619029]Kayla Third Visit Day 2 and 3.

Before I get farther I should mention I've become a Cialis fan, having used Viagra before and liked it. But with Cialis I just pop it a bit before the evening starts and don't have to think about a recharge late night or anything. Even tho they can last a couple days it's fine to recharge daily so each day before dinner I pop one. Had great hardness when needed (often!) and not so much of the flushing I had with Viagra. Recommend.[/QUOTE]Great trip and great report Steve!

I love looking at dark women in a white bra and panty set. Against their dark complexion, sometimes it looks like the bra and panties are fluorescent. Of course, I'm not even sure if Kayla was wearing bra and panties. LOL.

I have the reverse issue between Cialis and Viagra. I get flush and light headache after initially taking Cialis. Viagra is fine, but eating and drinking can affect it's efficacy with me. It's better on an empty stomach, but that's not always practical. Perhaps I need to give Cialis another try and soldier on through a few applications.

So I had an unexpected duo with a lesbian couple that was some of the most spectacular pure sex I've ever had (report forthcoming). And there was virtually non-stop slathered up ball licking and sucking. I am convinced this is due to my freshly shaven balls and the fact that girls who like eating pussy like eating well groomed balls equally well. Do urself a favor and go squeaky clean down there.

P.S. I did mine with Nair and do not recommend. Yes I've had naked balls for over a week but damn did I have redness and burning for a few days. Even broke the skin in spots. Fuck me! Fortunately all healed in time for Kayla but it was not fun. Guess I got to figure out the shaving method. Although still totally worth it. LOL.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2619904]Do urself a favor and go squeaky clean down there.
P.S. I did mine with Nair and do not recommend. Yes I've had naked balls for over a week but damn did I have redness and burning for a few days. Even broke the skin in spots. Fuck me! Fortunately all healed in time for Kayla but it was not fun. Guess I got to figure out the shaving method. Although still totally worth it. LOL.[/QUOTE]Better to leave the hair in place. Its God's natural lubricant along with sweat, when you are entering the pussy. If you shave your balls they will chafe in your underwear and continue to be red with burning.

Elvis,

Thanks for your sharing your thoughts on my issue.

I met a 24 year girl who always smokes weed and she seems to enjoy it and drinks Vodka. I just told her that I want to give it a try as a friend told me that he started flying after smoking it and enjoyed a wild session with one of his gals. I have never ever smoked in my life but that day I did and honestly, the girl had to teach me like a teacher to her student. I for the 1st time in my life kept on fucking for a minimum of 45 minutes like an express train in different positions and came in pussy. I was mighty pleased with my stamina; although I understood that it was purely due to that stimulant I. E weed. I do have whisky to give the girls a company but not too much into drinking now. In my 20's and 30's, I could drink half a bottle of whisky with no change in my behavior. But due to my health reasons, have limited my intake of alcohol but yes, 2/3 pegs of whisky does help me in being more open, bold and experimental with the babes. Point taken and understood on the stimulant suggestion.

Elvis, I must have fucked more than 200/250 girls without condoms in my mongering career of more than 10 years as I used to lose my erection with the rubber on my dick. It was a mind issue with me. I developed a severe infection on my dick and was out of action for more than 15 months. But took a pledge, to never ever without a condom. I can cum in rubber. Although, I know the feeling of fucking a girl bareback is next to attaining nirvana. Numerous times, I could have fucked my sugar babe without it but controlled myself. As recently as last Sunday. Number of times girls tell me to fuck them without the condom, but I just politely turn down the request as it is in the heat of moment.

My testosterone level is not low, been tested thrice for it in a year. It is absolutely fine. I exercise every day, keep fit and groom myself. In fact, the girls have told me that I do not look my age; in fact 40 or max 45.

I have taken some additional responsibility in this last quarter and am looking forward to tons of work, travelling again within the country for business and plenty of sex.

Will keep everyone updated and posted here in November.

Happy fucking to all.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2618329]Yeah, so basically, you have the opposite of premature ejaculation. Here is a quote from the Mayo Clinic on premature ejaculation. "A side effect of certain antidepressants is delayed orgasm. For this reason, selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs), such as escitalopram (Lexapro), sertraline (Zoloft), paroxetine (Paxil) or fluoxetine (Prozac, Sarafem), are used to help delay ejaculation.

Of those approved for use in the United States, paroxetine seems to be the most effective. These medications usually take five to 10 days to begin working. But it might take two to three weeks of treatment before you'll see the full effect. End quote.

Thing is if raising serotonin prevents guys from coming than lowering it should make it easier for you to cum. Most antihistamines lower serotonin but periactin or generic name cyprohepatdine lowers serotonin the best. Usually antihistamines kill sex drive but this is just a cold medicine and who knows? Maybe it will work for you. It cannot hurt to try.[/QUOTE]

Warning this is super long. I wrote it right morning after so much of the detail was fresh. Plus I write these mostly for myself but I hope you guys enjoy as well. This was probably the most off the hook two hours of sex in my life with a couple of straight up amateur college girls. Read on.

OK I am definitely on a black girls run. Confirmed tonight with a last minute duo score. Of course I was just with Kayla, but have traveled to a new city. I had researched it before and had some prospects but honestly I was fucked out. Just couldn't muster the energy.

Till night three. LOL. There was a work event and a couple glasses of wine and I start thinking "why not" and start texting girls randomly from my playlist or brand new prospects from SA. Very aggressive opener like "I'm going out tonight to a nice dinner and drinks. Want to join me?" I had used this approach in London with some success.

A few nibbles but really no bites and I am now back in my hotel room half heartedly sending out inquiries when I get a response from two black girls. "Sure. $500 for us both". They aren't quite my type but marginally cute and I haven't had a duo in a while so I say let's do it. I'm a little wary of course because you rarely get that direct a come on. But I go with the flow carefully.

Originally I suggest meet at a bar but they remind me they are both twenty. LOL. So better to come to the room. Of course my scam radar is on high. Because they are driving 30 miles to see me and coming straight to the room. Not exactly standard offering. We are texting and they say they are on their way. I am certain I am going to get the "oh we are out of gas can you send money" text and resigned to jacking off. But the text never comes and sure enough they show up!

Amara is a rail thin tall dark black girl and Kayara is a thick light black girl. Couldn't be two more different looking black females. Turns out they are girlfriends and have been dating nine months. This ends up being very important to the vibe and what all we do. Amara is clearly the alpha and Kayara enjoys being a sub.

We chat amiably over some wine and I learn lots of interesting things. They are both freshman in college (skipped a year after HS) so there's that fantasy to check off. Learn of their relationship. And learn that they have tried SD twice and stood up both times! One time they drove two hours and were stood up! Poor things all they want is a daddy to fuck! So I am their first SD and boy do we make it memorable.

You can tell they are both a little nervous but the wine is helping Amara. Kayara doesn't drink and def seems a bit more shy. We actually have a really good conversation what are they studying and why, what do I do for work Etc. Eventually I excuse myself to go pee and say for them to get more comfortable if they like. They are both just in sweats because this was a last minute deal and they just came on. But in a way it's great because I'm going to be fucking two freshman coeds you might see on the the quad! LOL.

On returning, Amara is under the covers but sweatshirt still on and Kayara is slowly undressing. When Kayara is down to her bra (nice big DCups) I come over and embrace her and go for the kiss. At first I get a cheek, then two small pecks. Uh oh. Maybe they are too shy and naive. But they are here so what the heck.

I say "it's really cute that you are both so new to this" and they say why do I say that. And I say just by the way you kissed that I could tell you are really nervous. So Amara, the skinny black one and I mean she must be 5-10 and weigh 80 pounds really amazing in an odd way she gestures for me to come to the bed where she rears up and plants a deep and passionate French kiss on me, like this is how it's done baby. I find that even though she is in her sweatshirt she is naked down below. I squeeze that amazing tight ass with both hands and start to grow hard.

Pretty soon I am naked standing at the side of the bed, Kayara has finished undressing revealing a thick but attractive bod and Amara pulls her sweatshirt off over her head. Kayara starts blowing me while I make out with Amara but soon they are both blowing the fuck out of me and I remember why I like duos!

The double BJ is absolutely epic. They seem to be totally be in sync. Two mouths on shaft side to side. Kayara on shaft Amara in balls. Amara on upper shaft Kayara on lower. After a while I stop paying attention to what's what. There is so much sloppy shit going on down there that its mind blowing and I can't keep track of all the sensations.

A couple of times I get the urge to fuck but then think bloody hell why would I stop this? They must blow me easily for 20 minutes before I decide I've got to fuck one or the other. First up is Kayara in doggie style where she can eat Amaras pussy. Of course girls are pros at this so she is driving Amara absolutely bat shit crazy as I fuck Kayara from behind. She has a nice thick butt to grab on to and as she gets more and more lost in it (she likes fucking) she's whispering "fuck me daddy. Yes like that. Harder. " LOL.

After an eternity of this (I had jacked off earlier that day thinking it was going to be a celibate night) I decide to try out Amara and I swap them up. No need to change condoms because they are lovers. Amara is still on her back so Kayara moves up to sit on her face and I plunge into mish with Amara. She's very tight as you might expect given her body type. Some light bites and kisses on Kayara's back since it's right where my face lands. And some great mish pounding of Amara.

I eventually decide I want to cum, hoping to even do a round 2 but that's never guaranteed. So I lose the condom and lie on my back and they go to work. It's spectacular again and a lot of it but not quite cumming. So I move to standing again where they are on edge of bed and I get a great visual. After quite a bit more I start to cum in Kayaras mouth (she is better on shaft) and she starts to pull back. So I start to shoot on Amaras shoulder as she is on ball work. Good girl she is she doesn't want to waste it and gets me in her mouth for a few pumps of finish CIM.

They start working me and kissing me for round two instantly but I say I need to rest a bit. So we cuddle, but after a minute Amara starts to finger Kayaras pussy and they are off to the races for the best girl on girl I've ever witnessed. I learned a lot!

Amara is using her two middle fingers inside Kayara and fucking her aggressively and hard while slathering her clit with her tongue. Kayara is off in space somewhere and squealing and moaning. Then Amara switches to fingers side to side on clit. Her hand is moving so fast it's a blur. And K is going nuts. She has a clenching O but A is merciless and drives her for another O right after and another.

I join the fun as we are just using K like a fuck toy and she is sooooo down with that. So A starts finger fucking her again and I simultaneously do the furious clit side to side rubbing so she is getting doubled up. And fuck she goes thru two or three more Os. She's convulsing and shaking and eventually swats both our hands away. It's like she's had electroshock and it just totally wiped out.

I only let her rest a minute or so and bring K to the edge of the bed for mish with me standing. So now K can do A for a while when A sits on her face. She's a lot more gentle but A seems to like it and has some face scrunching Os. The fucking of K goes on a long time- and I love that position. Even tho I think K is all fucked out, not so. Her legs are straight up in the air as I fuck her deep and she has a couple Os one right after the other. Her right leg goes stiff and vibrates like a motherfucker and then subsides and then about 10 strokes later she's hit by another wave and the leg goes batshit again. Can't fake that shit!

At some point I get the desire to finger fuck A the way she did K. So while K is curled up in a fetal ball resting, LOL, I start making out with A and finger fucking her with my middle and ring finger as I learned from her. I am going in and out aggressively but she hand signals to do the same but not in and out but to curl my fingers for aggressive gspot tapping. This is prob what she was doing to K finger fucking snd gspot tapping both look similar from outside. So I am tapping her gspot like a madman and she has some crashing Os.

I've had pussys clamp down on me before but hers it like a full pushout. It feels like her pelvic floor is coming down and absolutely drives my fingers out. Then it relaxes and back in I go. And tap tap tap and boom another wave. Normally I would stop but I learned from watching them you can have a connected string of Os. So I go again and give her a couple more where she totally clamps down and pushes me out with her pussy. It's really something. Wow.

Ok time to fuck Amara again so I fuck her in doggie and she eats Kayaras pussy some more. Eventually we all kinda tire and they slide under the covers and create a little space between them for me. I squeeze in and we doze and snuggle for a while, a girls head on each shoulder. King of the world.

They are lightly playing with me by hand under the covers and I say I think I have one more shot in me if they are game. So we pull back the covers and down they go. A true labor of love they must be at it another ten minutes or more and it is truly great. I think I might have to go to a hand finish but when K is on shaft and A on balls. OMG. It's soooo good. Eventually I shoot a load again K backing off but A quickly slurps up the goods! What a team.

So then we just doze and cuddle but eventually they have to go. Amara has class at 1030 but Kayara has a 7 AM class. College girls! Def one of my best pure sex experiences ever. Never been with two girls so passionately into each other but still with the right focus on me. It was a two hour blur of nonstop fucking and sucking and fingering. Five stars!

Man, I had a hellish weekend. Worked almost 12 hours on Saturday, and again on Sunday. At 9 pm Sunday, I finally got to relax. Cracked open a cold beer and I got caught up on sports scores on ESPN, financial news on CNBC, and it was all boring shit. So I opened up ISG and saw your long reports and reading them was a perfect way to relax with my beer.

Based on your description of the duo, I want to guess that it was either Vegas or Tampa Bay, but there is obviously no need to tell me.

I have often heard that sex with black girls is awesome. But I also heard that when it comes to black girls and P 4 P, then YMMV by a huge wide margin. Some are super scammers and some are totally DTF. But I should give it a try.

Cialis versu Viagra. I also get a flush with V, especially if I had a phyically exhausting day or even if I just exercised during the day. Recently, V is also stimulating bowel movements. Just last week, I swallowed a V, then 10 minutes later, I had to crap. With see, my erections are not as reliable and definitely not as hard. So, I use V for one-off sessions. If I am on a business trip, then I use see, since I am trying to fuck whenever I get a chance.

As for cock shaving, I am totally addicted to it. But I just use an electric razor. When I use a razor blade, my cock gets super itchy and red. It is painful. With an electric razor, I not totally smooth of course, but it gets the job done. However, lately, and maybe this is my imagination, I feel like the hair is growing back thicker, and so now when I have a couple of days of growth, my cock is like sandpaper. So far, one gal complained about it, saying it was uncomfortable. But when gals see my totally shaved cock, they just seem to love sucking on it.

I have not tuned into this site in a while. Don't think I ever posted a report either although I wrote a lot of comments. So, this is a first.

So, I had discontinued my SA subscription for a while when Covid hit. I think I mentioned that here. I renewed it a few months ago when they ran a membership sale.

At first it was slow, but over time again, new contacts built up. Have enjoyed a few sessions. A few highlights here:

My best girl has been this absolutely stunning face (to me, she is) brown haired girl but she has some blonde streaks now. 22 years old, 5'8", skinny, not more than 110 lbs. I had known her for nearly 4 years. She had been on the site since she was 18. We had spoken on and off, and she always liked me but she used to login so infrequently into SA. Anyway, I never went anywhere. Then Covid came; I had never obtained her # earlier. So I was super happy to see her again on the site. Given how many handles these girls use, she has always had a single handle. She did change her profile pic, which earlier used to be a baby'ish pic but she now has nearly 10 to 15 photos in skimpy skirts, shorts, and bikinis. She did remember me after a few reminders, and finally met me for dinner (she brought her best friend as a chaperone, apparently she is also on SA; slightly older, perhaps late 20's). We got together for some alone time a few times since then. I have been helping her with some problems in her life, before Covid and since, and she is quite appreciative. Sex is totally GFE with this one, she is not super skilled, but could not be more real and more GFE. I don't want to give too many details and I will leave it at that. If I was not married with children and now a hard core monger with a dark soul, I would have fallen flat and in love with this girl, especially if I had her when I was young.

The second is a Puerto Rican Latina. Slightly outside my spec range in that I typically go for white girls but this one is very fair skinned and body structure too is similar to that of a skinny white girl. She is 26, 5'4", and has 2 children. She lives 15 miles from me. She is working as a lingerie photoshoot model, don't think it is as glamorous as it sounds or pays very much. She said she has had only 6 sexual partners in life, don't know why she thought that would make her more attractive to me. Anyway, she is very reasonably priced, this was her first arrangement and she didn't know how to negotiate hard. And most of all, we did it in her own bed. Her older one goes to school early in the day. Her 2nd one is a year and a half. She didn't have a baby sitter handy a couple of times and the younger one was in a crib and we did it on the living room carpet LOL. Anyway, my visits to this lady have declined after my business to the girl in the above paragraph picked up.

There was a one off, which is worth mentioning. I began talking to this 23 year old blonde. She has pictures with her wife on SA, the other one is 22. Yes, they actually got married apparently. I have no idea where they did it, if it is legal in my state (I am not in a coastal blue state). They actually are 2 1/2 hours away from me. At first when I began talking to the blonde, I thought they were scammers looking to sell some easy photos for 20 or 50. But they really wanted to try out an arrangement with a male, which neither has had much experience with. So, finally we set it up. Met halfway in the middle, as I am not able to take off for long periods given my current work situation (WFH) and having a family. Well, it was interesting. Obviously I have had threesomes as I frequent FKKs. But don't think I ever had a 3 some with a true lesbian couple. They were both so cute together, their love for each other is apparent. It was a bit awkward, and can't say the sex was the greatest, but now I can say I did it with a lesbian married couple. One off the bucket list (actually, this item was never on my bucket list to begin with, but now it is off the list).

The fourth one is the weirdest of all, and still very much ongoing. I think I mentioned before that I have had some luck in the past on Tinder. I renewed my Tinder subscription, anyway even the Platinum cost a very low amount. Disappointingly, Tinder looks worse than SA to me. Girls of my spec (less than 30, white, slender, good face) are numerous but almost all of them appear to be on Tinder to lure guys to their Insta, Snap profiles (just for kicks, to increase follower count, who knows. Or perhaps they want to sell them pics -- just like on SA). But this one Chinese lady connected with me; have*been talking to her nonstop for 2 weeks now. She is 28, looks very pretty from the multiple pics she sent me. From the discussions, she is quite well off. I have to keep reminding myself that I met her on Tinder and not SA, and not ask her by accident what her allowance expectation is and how many times she can meet in a week. My textapp (hushed) is not working with her phone and I had to give her my Whatsapp# (on WA, my profile pic has both me and my spouse). So, I turned off access to my profile pic to her before beginning to talk (I am using a fake photo on Tinder, just as I do on SA). For whatever reason, this Chinese woman has taken a liking for me; the conversation has been going really well. She is divorced, has a 4 year old son, and lives in a fancy part of the town not too far from my home. She is clearly looking for a boyfriend / future husband. She keeps bugging me for a photo. Or photos. I have been making all sorts of half jokes, self put downs, lame excuses but so far have not shared my photos with her. I have a sneaking suspicion she knows a couple of Asians in my office; not sure why, but some references to business issues, the trading business she is involved with which a couple of my colleagues are in too, some other issue. Not sure why but that is my sneaking suspicion. It would not be good for me whatsoever to have my identity blown with this one if she really indeed knows my colleagues. She has gotten so frustrated a couple of times that she threatened to block me but she comes back like a puppy. I feel sad about this. I feel this could have been a nice mistress, she doesn't even need a dime from me (her parents in China are both very well off and as usual, an only child), but I am thinking I need to block her to not cause her undue sadness as I can't see this progressing (my guess is, if I tell her I am married, she will block me right away).

I know some of this offends the righteous among you, but I couldn't care any less. I am a cheating bastard, but that's me; I could not care for any sanctimonious lectures from guys who are just like me anyway.

Thanks Pessimist for the great FR. Def seen you around the FKK threads. Didn't know you were dipping in the sugar bowl in the US. Sweet. As you know from my posts I'm a big believer. Super odd coincidence we both just had duos with lesbian lover couples.

I'the be wary of the Asian chick. It's amazing how some play the very long game with their rich family and work in trading. Suddenly you get some Bitcoin or other financial thing. Maybe not in this case but there is a sure pattern of this on SA and I was surprised how it was a lot of engagement before the scam move. Anyhow maybe not that. But radar up.

And no judgment here. LOVE the story where u fuck on the carpet with the baby in the next room. We should all be so lucky. It’s about life experiences as much as anything. That’s one for the books.

My recent adventures reinforced how much the relationship part matters to me. The sex with the couple was mind blowing. But damn Kayla is my GIRLFRIEND in every sense. I love to hang with her. And I love when we are apart just chatting. Hearing her roommate drama or she's just back from the gym of whatever. Just little stuff. But being connected to another (super hot!) human at a real level is a real draw. I'm def stuck deep in the sugar bowl!

Ps Dont worry fellas my experience with Valentina and real heartbreak has me with one eye always open. Plus still got Uma and (sorta) Sue at home to distract me from obsessing.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2621515]Thanks Pessimist for the great FR. Def seen you around the FKK threads. Didn't know you were dipping in the sugar bowl in the US. Sweet. As you know from my posts I'm a big believer. Super odd coincidence we both just had duos with lesbian lover couples.

I'the be wary of the Asian chick. It's amazing how some play the very long game with their rich family and work in trading. Suddenly you get some Bitcoin or other financial thing. Maybe not in this case but there is a sure pattern of this on SA and I was surprised how it was a lot of engagement before the scam move. Anyhow maybe not that. But radar up.

And no judgment here. LOVE the story where u fuck on the carpet with the baby in the next room. We should all be so lucky. Its about life experiences as much as anything. Thats one for the books.

My recent adventures reinforced how much the relationship part matters to me. The sex with the couple was mind blowing. But damn Kayla is my GIRLFRIEND in every sense. I love to hang with her. And I love when we are apart just chatting. Hearing her roommate drama or she's just back from the gym of whatever. Just little stuff. But being connected to another (super hot!) human at a real level is a real draw. I'm def stuck deep in the sugar bowl!.[/QUOTE]Thanks Steve. Yes, I have been doing SA in the US for a bit more than 5 years now. Technically, got to subtract a year+ due to Covid in between but started in 2016. I don't post field reports, not my forte; do enjoy your reports, thanks. However, I did post quite a few comments in this thread on ISG, been a bit quiet of late. Sugarbabe chatting taking up most of my spare time haha.

The Chinese woman is interesting. BTW, it is not trading as in equity or investment trading; she is into a trading of a specific product line, she does the sales and distribution here and a couple of my Asian colleagues have talked about that business in the past; so I am wary. How many Chinese are in this city and what is the chance that a few of them are into sales and distribution of one particular product segment into China and they don't know each other? Also, they may be from the same province in China, based on what she said was the location of her parents. Anyway, it is not a risk worth taking for me. If I was not married (with a lot to lose), I would not care but I do because I am at that risk. Anyhow for folks like me, SA is more convenient. Business-like and transaction oriented, guy and gal both know what is expected, not too much wooing needed.

She checks on you when apart and says how's your day babe?

She barebacks you without a second thought.

She worships your balls like they are solid gold.

She says "I'm going to miss this dick" on your last night together.

She invites you to the swingers club.

She sends you fully naked tit squeezing videos and says she misses you.

She is always the last texter. Always.

She thanks you for any kindness offered (dinner, gifts, a ride, kind words, advice). Always.

Add to this list.

Pitfalls in the game.

[URL]http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?585-General-Info&p=2618651&viewfull=1[/URL]#post2618651.

Why would any of us be offended by your report? It was awesome, and just as important, it was honest. Please keep reporting. I enjoyed reading your highlights.

Hope you do not mind some of my thoughts on your gals. I just like to join the conversation.

That is awesome that the 22 year old is going super well. Her specs (height and weight) sound right up my alley. I bet she is really beautful especially when she is not wearing makeup. But I think you got lucky with this one. For me, I stopped seeing anyone under 24 years old. I know others will bash on me for this. But I do not even like WGs that are under 24. Almost all of them treat me like the old guy they have to see every once in a while. I hate that feeling. And so, if you got one that is into you, then you are lucky and she is a keeper.

As for threesomes, those can be so hit or miss. Steve recently had an epic threesome. Sounds like you did too. I've only had one really good experience with it. Most of my other experiences with it has been so-so, and so now I do not do them anymore.

Finally, regarding the Chinese gal, there's a good chance that she wants to get married. I hate to generalize, or even sound slightly racist, but almost all Chinese women are strongly marriage minded.

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2621439]I have not tuned into this site in a while. Don't think I ever posted a report either although I wrote a lot of comments. So, this is a first.

So, I had discontinued my SA subscription for a while when Covid hit. I think I mentioned that here. I renewed it a few months ago when they ran a membership sale.

At first it was slow, but over time again, new contacts built up. Have enjoyed a few sessions. A few highlights here:

My best girl has been this absolutely stunning face (to me, she is) brown haired girl but she has some blonde streaks now. 22 years old, 5'8", skinny, not more than 110 lbs.

The second is a Puerto Rican Latina.

There was a one off, which is worth mentioning. I began talking to this 23 year old blonde. She has pictures with her wife on SA, the other one is 22. Yes, they actually got married apparently.

The fourth one is the weirdest of all, and still very much ongoing. But this one Chinese lady connected with me; have*been talking to her nonstop for 2 weeks now. She is 28, looks very pretty from the multiple pics she sent me. From the discussions, she is quite well off.

I know some of this offends the righteous among you, but I couldn't care any less. I am a cheating bastard, but that's me; I could not care for any sanctimonious lectures from guys who are just like me anyway.[/QUOTE]

I met her about 4 or 5 years ago. She is in her mid 40's! She's been married for about 25 years (yep, she got married when she was 20, and has a daughter that already graduated from college). She loves her husband. In fact, today, he has a day off, and so she took the day off too, to spend the day with him. But he has not kissed her in over a decade, she told me. And the last time she had sex, before me, was almost 10 years ago, and that was also an affair. So when we hooked up, I did not have to pay her a cent. She was just in it for the affection. She is hungry for affection. And so she just loves me fucking her, and she usually wants to do it longer than me.

But I now call this an arrangement rather than affair because in the past year, I started giving her money. She's from a rural part of China. And the pandemic lockdown nearly ruined their finances. They almost lost their home because they could barely pay their mortgage.

But I call it a great arrangement not just because of the great sex, but because we have our routine down pat. We meet, we shower, we fuck for an hour or two, and then we shower again and then we go our separate ways. We do not even talk, because I cannot speak Chinese. She never hassles me about anything. And, maybe best of all, she has no interest in wanting anything else other than what we already have. She does not want me texting her a lot, and she is totally about being discreet.

Lately, I have been seeing her about once per week. Every once in a while, I find a new great arrangement with a new person and I do not see SM for a while, but when those new arrangements eventually fall apart, I always go back to SM.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2621947]Why would any of us be offended by your report? It was awesome, and just as important, it was honest. Please keep reporting. I enjoyed reading your highlights.

Hope you do not mind some of my thoughts on your gals. I just like to join the conversation.

That is awesome that the 22 year old is going super well. Her specs (height and weight) sound right up my alley. I bet she is really beautful especially when she is not wearing makeup. But I think you got lucky with this one. For me, I stopped seeing anyone under 24 years old. I know others will bash on me for this. But I do not even like WGs that are under 24. Almost all of them treat me like the old guy they have to see every once in a while. I hate that feeling. And so, if you got one that is into you, then you are lucky and she is a keeper.

As for threesomes, those can be so hit or miss. Steve recently had an epic threesome. Sounds like you did too. I've only had one really good experience with it. Most of my other experiences with it has been so-so, and so now I do not do them anymore.

Finally, regarding the Chinese gal, there's a good chance that she wants to get married. I hate to generalize, or even sound slightly racist, but almost all Chinese women are strongly marriage minded.[/QUOTE]Hi MW,

[blue][Deleted by Admin][/blue]. The reality is that I could easily lie; I provide honest disclosures because this is an anonymous site and I don't like to lie about every small detail; it is bad enough that I am lying to my spouse which is the worst lie of all. Anyway, I think the folks on SA thread appear to be less judgmental and more sensible, so thank you for starting it.

As for your thoughts, I agree with everything you said. The first girl has depression issues, has been struggling with it for a long time. When she was on the site for nearly 4 years, at first she was just 18+, I felt ashamed to be hitting on such a young girl (I don't feel the same guilt fucking a 18 year old in the FKKs, not sure why this dichotomy in my mind). But she never felt me coming too hard at her. She would pop in every few weeks, sometimes months would pass by before she would come on the site, and the conversation was casual and brief. She opened up a bit more in the recent months, although her mental health issues have intensified. This does worry me. I need to keep this at arm's length because the danger is that this girl may go into deep blues if her heart is broken and I hope she does not develop attachments (she knows I am married). I was watching Click Bait on NFLX and suddenly I got scared in one of those middle episodes (the end clarifies it, so I was less scared, LOL). But yes, not too many SA girls are like this, most are more business like.

I think the lesbian 3 some was a one off. First the distance is too great. Secondly, they are in a real marriage. As Seinfeld found out, it is not easy to convert one from their team. They chose their team already LOL. I think they were curious, gave it a shot, didn't feel they were super thrilled to change their team. I am not a French lover, for god's sake, not that good. Anyway, it was interesting because it was w / a real couple. The 3 somes in FKKs are obviously mechanical; I never pay for them to do a lesbi show; pay them just to please me.

The Chinese woman keeps pestering me for my pics. She can't sleep I guess; every night, at 1 AM or 1:30 AM I have a "sweet dreams" message on my Whataspp and I am sound asleep by then. I started telling her that I am too old, etc but she seems to think I am some kinda mysterious guy now. This is so fucking weird because if I didn't have this suspicion that she may know my colleagues, I would be running to her as quickly as possible. Now, I will have to break this connection soon; it would be cruel to waste her time like this. She hasn't come out and asked me to meet for a date yet but she did ask "what are your plans tonight" "or the weather is lovely today, going out?" or asked about some local nice restaurants etc. It is becoming tough to fend her off with my lame stories.

She may be marriage minded. She asked me a couple of times if I am indeed American. I have some knowledge of Chinese businesses (we invest in Chinese stocks and other Asian stocks), and perhaps she had a suspicion I may be Chinese because she was surprised I knew about Evergrande problems or know of Colin Huang and Zhang Yiming etc. I am like you, hate being racist, but the question "are you American" implies she wans a marriage and eventually a greencard? I can't be in this situation. Too crazy for me.

Went out with Uma recently snd I am struck by how unusual she is. Sure. She likes to drink and fuck like any good twenty something (she just turned 26) and she's beautiful. But damn if she isn't smart as fuck. She's studying to be a doctor no lie. And you can just tell by the conversation. She is a super smart hot and confident black woman. It's really something to be with her.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2622335]Went out with Uma recently... damn if she isn't smart as fuck. She's studying to be a doctor no lie. And you can just tell by the conversation. She is a super smart hot and confident black woman. It's really something to be with her.[/QUOTE]If she were smarter, she would not make her money on her back. She probably would be working in a clinic already.

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2622132]
There are a bunch of judgmental idiots on the German FKK threads who get offended that I am a cheating bastard.

The first girl has depression issues, has been struggling with it for a long time.

I think the lesbian 3 some was a one off.

The Chinese woman keeps pestering me for my pics.

I have some knowledge of Chinese businesses (we invest in Chinese stocks and other Asian stocks).[/QUOTE]Man, I cannot believe there are guys on here that would criticize anyone for their life choices. I already know that I am a bad person, and I do not need some anonymous person reminding me of it.

Whoa, did not know that the 22 year old has depression. But if it's clinical depression, then you might be okay. I have dated a few gals that suffered from depression. In general, it is just life that makes them depressed, not relationships or failed relationships. But anyway, LOL, what do I know, as I am not a psychiartrist. Anyway, do not let her drag you down, obviously.

I actually met two gals on SA that were bipolar. I have never met anyone who was bipolar before, but suddenly I dated two from SA. During their highs, they were so super high that it was embarrasing to be around them, and during their lows, it was a real downer. Plus, they often cancelled dates at the last minute because they were down. I remember going a short trip with one of them. We were having a blast. But then, I had to run a short errand, which took only an hour, and when I came back, she was in bed because she suddenly swung to the down side. She said she wanted to just lay in bed for the rest of the evening. This was around 7 pm! I had rented a Mercedes, booked us a 5 star hotel, and we were located right in the middle of a great night scene, but we end up watching TV in bed, not even going out for dinner. A totally wasted trip. Yes, I realize that I should feel sympathy for her, but like I said, I know that I am a bad person.

The funny thing about lesbians is that some of them love sucking cock and fucking. I know a WG who is a lesbian. She just loves sucking my cock, and she loves me fucking her, especially hard. I keep asking her if she is sure she is a lesbian, and she said she is definitely a lesbian. She says she finds men to be disgusting and ugly, but yet she loves cock. There are some girls that are bisexual, but I think they are really lesbians but love cock. I met of few of them too. I know this all sounds stupid. It sounds stupid to me too as I am typing this, LOL.

Yeah, you're smart to avoid the Chinese gal. Again, I hate to generalize, but the Chinese in the states tend to be pretty tight knit, and so there's a good chance that you guys know the same Chinese people.

Funny that you mentioned Evergrande, Colin Huang, etc. I am also an active investor and trader of Chinese stocks and other Asian stocks. I recently took a large position in EDU, thinking that it might double in a couple of years. I also have shares of PDD, which might be a mistake. I dumped my TCEHY, BABA, and JD. Their earnings calls are coming up, and we will soon see what they are made of. What Chinese stocks do you own?

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2622335]Went out with Uma recently snd I am struck by how unusual she is. Sure. She likes to drink and fuck like any good twenty something (she just turned 26) and she's beautiful. But damn if she isn't smart as fuck. She's studying to be a doctor no lie. And you can just tell by the conversation. She is a super smart hot and confident black woman. It's really something to be with her.[/QUOTE]I met a few unicorns on SA too. I asked them why they were on SA. One of them said that she loved going out, and she loved having sex. And so, she said that if she can also get paid for having fun and having great sex, then it seemed like a no brainer to be on SA. She used to be active on Tinder, but then she realized that she could be on SA doing the exact same thing but also getting paid. Smart gal, that one.

Hey all,

Been a silent reader of the forum Steve has been off great help on PM so shoutout for that. I am from India and increasingly facing difficulties to renew my subscription as Seeking is classified as a non trustworthy site with many of India's leading Banks and my payments are getting declined. I am an iOS person so can't use the Google pay tokens as well. Would someone kindly help or guide me as to how they have got this issue sorted? If someone can help me with the subscription happy to PayPal them the amount as well.

Cheers.

Ruch888.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2622389]I met a few unicorns on SA too. I asked them why they were on SA. One of them said that she loved going out, and she loved having sex. And so, she said that if she can also get paid for having fun and having great sex, then it seemed like a no brainer to be on SA. She used to be active on Tinder, but then she realized that she could be on SA doing the exact same thing but also getting paid. Smart gal, that one.[/QUOTE]Yeah exactly. Since when was having a nice evening out, some great sex, and walking away richer a bad thing? Well I guess always in western society but fuck that! And I guess that's why Uma would add in "and it's kinda naughty which I love". But seriously why is this wrong in any way? It's not! Fuck the Puritans.

I forgot which famous author said that Puritanism is that sneaking suspicion that somewhere someone may be having fun! LOL. So true!

Are some things bad behavior? Imo going bareback and then fucking your wife bareback is some not great behavior because you might spill over your private life into her life in a very bad way. But if she's stopped having sex, stopped being affectionate, let herself get fat and unattractive how exactly are you the bad guy? I have no guilt around "stepping out". I am not a bad guy. In fact just the opposite. But the wife often puts the husband in an impossible spot. Imo the guy is often not to blame here.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2622386]Man, I cannot believe there are guys on here that would criticize anyone for their life choices. I already know that I am a bad person, and I do not need some anonymous person reminding me of it.

Whoa, did not know that the 22 year old has depression. But if it's clinical depression, then you might be okay. I have dated a few gals that suffered from depression. In general, it is just life that makes them depressed, not relationships or failed relationships. But anyway, LOL, what do I know, as I am not a psychiartrist. Anyway, do not let her drag you down, obviously.

I actually met two gals on SA that were bipolar. I have never met anyone who was bipolar before, but suddenly I dated two from SA. During their highs, they were so super high that it was embarrasing to be around them, and during their lows, it was a real downer. Plus, they often cancelled dates at the last minute because they were down. I remember going a short trip with one of them. We were having a blast. But then, I had to run a short errand, which took only an hour, and when I came back, she was in bed because she suddenly swung to the down side. She said she wanted to just lay in bed for the rest of the evening. This was around 7 pm! I had rented a Mercedes, booked us a 5 star hotel, and we were located right in the middle of a great night scene, but we end up watching TV in bed, not even going out for dinner. A totally wasted trip. Yes, I realize that I should feel sympathy for her, but like I said, I know that I am a bad person.

The funny thing about lesbians is that some of them love sucking cock and fucking. I know a WG who is a lesbian. She just loves sucking my cock, and she loves me fucking her, especially hard. I keep asking her if she is sure she is a lesbian, and she said she is definitely a lesbian. She says she finds men to be disgusting and ugly, but yet she loves cock. There are some girls that are bisexual, but I think they are really lesbians but love cock. I met of few of them too. I know this all sounds stupid. It sounds stupid to me too as I am typing this, LOL.[/QUOTE]Thank you MW, you are obviously much more mature and also kind relative to some doofuses on the German threads. Yes, you are right; I have some experience in my extended family with clinical and adolescent depression. It can be tough. This girl is not bipolar, thank goodness. She is super sweet and shy; the first time we went for dinner, she apologetically asked if it was OK with me if she ordered a dessert. But she does ghost a lot. She warned me early on that she would do that when she goes into her blues. It took a lot of effort and time to convince her to go out to meet me in person. I have had more canceled dates with this one than any other in recent years I can recall but she has been worth it.

If you have not watched Clickbait, I recommend it. You will know what I meant by getting scared.

I hope you bought EDU and other education stocks after the crash and were not caught in the downdraft. China is a tough story this year, as far as stocks go. If the Xi regime is not hell bent on destroying capitalism nor shareholder rights, Chinese stocks appear attractive. But no one knows how the CCP is thinking. Yes, the big name ecommerce stories like JD, BABA, Pinduoduo, and media names like Tencent and many others appear cheap relative to our Amazons and Google / Facebook, other.

The thing is that I don't live in SF or a place like that with a massive Asian population. So, the chance of them knowing each other may be high. Also, I get the feeling matters like this may be discussed more? In their community, perhaps I am being paranoid. * If I screw over a White girl, there is less chance of her tattletaling about me to every white person she knows, at least that is a breed I know.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2622489]Yeah exactly. Since when was having a nice evening out, some great sex, and walking away richer a bad thing? Well I guess always in western society but fuck that! And I guess that's why Uma would add in "and it's kinda naughty which I love". But seriously why is this wrong in any way? It's not! Fuck the Puritans.

I forgot which famous author said that Puritanism is that sneaking suspicion that somewhere someone may be having fun! LOL. So true!

Are some things bad behavior? Imo going bareback and then fucking your wife bareback is some not great behavior because you might spill over your private life into her life in a very bad way. But if she's stopped having sex, stopped being affectionate, let herself get fat and unattractive how exactly are you the bad guy? I have no guilt around "stepping out". I am not a bad guy. In fact just the opposite. But the wife often puts the husband in an impossible spot. Imo the guy is often not to blame here.[/QUOTE]I'm not judging you or anyone here. I'm no saint, but I know a few guys that were players before they were married and fully intended to continue being a player. That is a stickier issue.

That being said, you would think that some smart girls would figure out that sex can actually be good outside of marriage. We are constantly told that it is dangerous. Diseases! Murderers! Rapists! Bill Cosby! The exploitive modeling industry! That scares many from even considering sex outside of a relationship. Yes, it is driven by Puritans, but also other ethnic / religious groups. The Muslims are scared to death of their girls "dating. " Indians are slowing coming around on PDAs. I find the live streams and videos to be game changers. Things have come a long way. There is one problem. It's the athletes curse. When you are young, you tend to be dumb, but overconfident. Therefore, it is easy to make mistakes. You get used to the quick money and you start having a lifestyle that is way beyond your means. That leads to trouble. Never a good idea to be hooked on luxury you cannot afford.

Pessimist,

I have read those guys. Try not to bring them over. They are young and brag constantly about banging only 10's and that sort of male BS. They contribute nothing, are quite insecure, and probably can barely afford the hobby. I salute the people with the open mind. Sex in any form can be great. It is about experiencing emotions in various form, usually pleasurable. It really does not matter what someone else thinks if it is good for you. I have had one too many session with a good looking bomb to find her lying there with a bored look on her face. Nothing kills the mood faster. On the other hand, the girl that lets you control the timing and does many things with enthusiasm can be a stunning session. Nothing is as good as a gal that is revving you up because she wants a good fuck and enjoys getting you going. It's usually epic.

I met a new girl yesterday. I had been talking to her for 5 to 6 weeks now. We were supposed to meet up for sex 3 weeks ago but she canceled at the last minute. This was our first meet. Met up for light brunch and went to a motel nearby, had sex, and left. Altogether, she stayed with me for 3 1/2 hours, 2 hours of which was making out and sex in the room. I gave her $300. She is white, 22, pretty face, very small tits but really tight bod, 5'4", blonde, smelled really nice, DATY was a delight and pussy was clean and fresh, even her ass was very clean; her BJ was atrocious, did not do BLS, kissing was light. She is a junior at the local Uni, switched majors to business. I realized she is in the class taught by one of my acquaintances but kept it to myself. She is an experienced sugar babe. Her first arrangement was at 19. She is somewhat estranged from her parents (divorced) and supporting herself totally including her tuition, working 25 hours a week in addition to college. I now read that most of the Sharks girls are demanding 150 E for an hour; on that basis, what I received from this girl on a per hour basis far exceeds what you get in Sharks now, and I did not have to spend thousands on airfare and hotels and taking weeks off.

I doubt I will repeat w / this girl too many times. May be a session here and there but she will not be my regular girl. For one thing, I am getting more and more drawn to my depressed girl. She feels very vulnerable; I am spending hours just chatting and texting with her, helping her get through the days. Depression is a terrible thing, sometimes she can't get out of the bed, sometimes she just sits there and cries for no reason, she eats nothing on some days. I need to stop myself from falling for her, which is an absurd situation for me w / wife and kids; however, I can't lie that this girl feels vulnerable and I am trying to help as much as I can. The time and budget allocation to her is leaving limited amount to others. Normally I am a cold calculating slimebag but she feels fragile and vulnerable and feeling a bit sad for her.

Also, with work from home still in place, it is not so easy to get away from home w / o rousing suspicion. Every outing away from home for a few hours is a precious opportunity.

Suddenly the [URL]seeking.com[/URL] spigot has opened up like a fountain. When I re-subscribed a few months ago, it was a slow start. All of a sudden, in the last 2 weeks, I have offers of alone time from several very attractive girls in the 200-250 range even. With 300, in my area, you can pretty get any one you want now, it seems. These are white, slim girls w / pretty faces in the 18-25 age range. If I could find time, I would meet up with all of them. So, the main challenge right now is finding time away from home.

I wonder if the stopping of the benefits in early September had an impact. Feels like many girls are more broke now and more desperate. However jobs are plentiful; perhaps they got too lazy from receiving free federal benefits for 18 months.

Even tho I am always researching and always trying to find the next big thing, having the SA Rolodex is an amazing thing once you build it. I was just realizing that there are five cities I can travel to and have a girl ready to see me. No stress, no BS. Just tell her I will be in town and let's linkup.

Just happened on an upcoming trip. Struggling to find something new. Decided to just hit up my Rolodex and boom! Got a date with a hottie without breaking a sweat. If you invest you WILL be paid back.

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2622902]I met a new girl yesterday. I had been talking to her for 5 to 6 weeks now. We were supposed to meet up for sex 3 weeks ago but she canceled at the last minute. This was our first meet. Met up for light brunch and went to a motel nearby, had sex, and left. Altogether, she stayed with me for 3 1/2 hours, 2 hours of which was making out and sex in the room. I gave her $300. She is white, 22, pretty face, very small tits but really tight bod, 5'4", blonde, smelled really nice, DATY was a delight and pussy was clean and fresh, even her ass was very clean; her BJ was atrocious, did not do BLS, kissing was light. She is a junior at the local Uni, switched majors to business. I realized she is in the class taught by one of my acquaintances but kept it to myself. She is an experienced sugar babe. Her first arrangement was at 19. She is somewhat estranged from her parents (divorced) and supporting herself totally including her tuition, working 25 hours a week in addition to college. I now read that most of the Sharks girls are demanding 150 E for an hour; on that basis, what I received from this girl on a per hour basis far exceeds what you get in Sharks now, and I did not have to spend thousands on airfare and hotels and taking weeks off.

I doubt I will repeat w / this girl too many times. May be a session here and there but she will not be my regular girl. For one thing, I am getting more and more drawn to my depressed girl. She feels very vulnerable; I am spending hours just chatting and texting with her, helping her get through the days. Depression is a terrible thing, sometimes she can't get out of the bed, sometimes she just sits there and cries for no reason, she eats nothing on some days. I need to stop myself from falling for her, which is an absurd situation for me w / wife and kids; however, I can't lie that this girl feels vulnerable and I am trying to help as much as I can. The time and budget allocation to her is leaving limited amount to others. Normally I am a cold calculating slimebag but she feels fragile and vulnerable and feeling a bit sad for her.

Also, with work from home still in place, it is not so easy to get away from home w / o rousing suspicion. Every outing away from home for a few hours is a precious opportunity.

Suddenly the [URL]seeking.com[/URL] spigot has opened up like a fountain. When I re-subscribed a few months ago, it was a slow start. All of a sudden, in the last 2 weeks, I have offers of alone time from several very attractive girls in the 200-250 range even. With 300, in my area, you can pretty get any one you want now, it seems. These are white, slim girls w / pretty faces in the 18-25 age range. If I could find time, I would meet up with all of them. So, the main challenge right now is finding time away from home.

I wonder if the stopping of the benefits in early September had an impact. Feels like many girls are more broke now and more desperate. However jobs are plentiful; perhaps they got too lazy from receiving free federal benefits for 18 months.[/QUOTE]Damn I just love it when someone really GETS the draw of SA. I know you were at it casually for a while but then you pull some gems and bam it's addictive. I actually like the whole SA date and real world experience better than the simulated stuff at FKK and escorts. Never thought I'the say this but other than the expense I like the USA scene as well as anywhere. I am going to officially stop calling it pussy prison because it no longer is!

Def understand how you caught feelings for the depressed girl. Just remember that you can't likely help her for real so don't go too deep. She's got real issues you can't fix and you both could get hurt if it becomes too real. P.S. If you haven't seen the YouTube video "It's Not the Nail" you should watch it. Its Laugh out loud funny but It's so true. I caught myself problem solving with Kayla the other day snd that's not what women actually want (sure you know this).

And on your terrible BJ I am sure you are used to the experts at FKK. Don't be afraid to train her up. I've trained up Alexa and Layla and a few others. Just a "can you lick and suck down here" or later "can I show up something I like" and show her harmonica. I've never had a girl balk and these girls now give top notch ten out of ten BJs. Their future husbands should thank me!

Best of luck!

I had lined up a few SB for Lisbon but sadly all except 1 fell through.

Reached out to all of them 1-2 months ago. Didn't really keep in touch but they knew I was coming. I did this because last year I cancelled at the last minute.

Once arrived at the airport to fly I reached out to all the girls in my Lisbon rolodex. 4 never responded. 1 wasn't in Lisbon and managed to set something up with 2.

First girl was Portuguese, 24. Seemed to have a nice body. Nice face. Fee 300. She would be my company for the evening. But at the time of meeting up she was a no show.

I put in a safety plan and ordered a WG, that went wrong as well.

The second girl I met looked similar to the first. Fee 250. I opted to play it safe and asked her to meet me during the day. She was interested in keeping things private so she only came to my hotel.

Talked, ordered some room service and while waiting started warming each other up. Food and drinks came.

The sex wasn't spectacular especially after I had a hottie from Elefante Branco. But the connection we had was nice. Think I'll keep in touch if I don't find better ones.

Both just finished with their degrees but had trouble finding jobs.

Thanks very much Steve. My association with SA goes back to early / mid 2016. I paid subscription all through 4 years till 2020; resubscribed in late August after I got my shots. I used to write about Seeking and Sugar babes in the German threads, before MW started this thread which I didn't discover till later. Perhaps you mentioned SA thread in German threads and I realized about the existence of this. There was a German gentleman called Bfsie who was also using sugarbabes in Germany and we discussed sugardating in the FKK lounge section. Writing field reports is not my forte; I never wrote those trip*reports in the FKK threads either. More of an "add to the discussion" type guy here.

I think it is accurate to characterize my use of SA as casual. Part of that is that I used to make 5 or even 6 trips to DE annually which are heavy, volume based usage trips. Before and after each trip, I am satiated or saving up and not in a rush to get back into the SB scene. Secondly, by far the biggest constraint for me is to conduct these amorous activities in a clandestine fashion. It is not even about hiding; it is about not even raising the smallest hint of suspicion. Browsing the site, talking to dozens of girls, texting, arranging meetings, being away for hours, hiding the money tracks which is not easy given that we have a joint account of everything we own, etc etc is not an easy task. I feel like I am playing w / fire sometimes but so far I have managed it. In that sense, my constraints and priorities are quite uncommon.

Also, I never built deep relationships with sugarbabes. In all these years, I might have had sessioned with 70+ sugarbabes but nearly half of them were one or two session girls. In a sense, the SB scene worked for me as an extension of the FKK usage model. In a club, I don't repeat with the same girl again and again unlike some mongers do. I am more of a "spread the oats wide, not deep" type dude. I mean, I am already married. I am straying. I am looking for a physical outlet. What is the attraction in building alternate relationships? There are half a dozen sugarbabes who I repeated more than a handful of times, that's it.

I don't think the girls, at least the girls I meet, are in a rush to get into longer, deeper arrangements / relationships. Perhaps they can sense I have some sort of coolness / aloofness? I tell them I am married, which also removes any sort of illusion that it can become something more. I pull back when it starts becoming too intense, too frequent. I am slow in responding, I intentionally ghost them for days if a girl appears to be becoming too close. They get the hint.

Also, the girls I meet do move around a lot. Many are using text apps for privacy reasons as I do, and they change those numbers somewhat regularly. For example, if I discontinue my hushed subscription (which I did, along with my SA subscription), when I rejoined hushed, I have a new number now. If I reach out to any previous girls, I have to reintroduce myself, send a pic, etc. Also, I focus on the younger populations (less than 25) and that group does tend to move around a lot. Many are students at local Univ / colleges and move out after graduation, or some other financial obstacle. My rolodex in that sense, is of some but limited use. I rarely met girls that I have not seen in 18+ months. And also, I have no desire to meet up girls from 4 or 5 years ago. They might not be so attractive, they are definitely older, why bother. My entire reason to be on this site is sex and physical activity. I don't want to share life stories with them.

You are right about the US not being a sex prison. Mongerer88 has made this point repeatedly. One reviewer just wrote a report in Sharks thread that he had one single session in the club which came to 215 Euro together with the entry fee for one hour session. Yes, I had to pay for the motel myself, but the cost / hour ratio*worked out so much better for me. Also, sex with a native English speaking girl is so much more satisfying and real than with a Romie that approaches you with "baby, what you make", although I truly miss and love the FKK ambience and the 100 naked chicks on the prowl.

You have a good point about training these girls, and if I repeat with this girl I might, but not sure how much I want to keep seeing her. As I said, the SA spigot truly opened up; I have never had this many offers of alone time for less than 300; they are all attractive girls. I definitely want to see some of them, plus the depressed girl is taking up half the Oxygen out of the room.

Yeah Pessimist you might be onto something here with subsidies dying out. Kayla is expensive at 500 but in a big city and worth every penny. Recently tho last couple local girls have been quick to say yes to 300. And my recent out of town duo they were 500 for both together. I thought maybe because they are black they feel like they need to charge less (had a black girl tell me this once).

But my recent rekindle in a city I am going to is white. Saw her last in 2019 and we were at 300 tho she had pushed hard for 400. This time she says "will 300 be ok?" Like she's thinking that is high. I have a shit ton of money so I don't try to negotiate too hard and said sure. But def feel like price on SA is having downward pressure.

So, Nina. She has worked in a couple of nuru spas on the outskirts of Lisbon, and is currently an independent in Amadora. The photos on the link are from about 4 years ago, when she had ads on docemassagem, but they are still accurate (excepting the tats, which are airbrushed out).

[URL]https://www.classificadosx.net/pt/anuncio/166-massagens-lisboa/41681-nin-massagista-sensual-9268993[/URL]

From the neck up, she is a normal Portuguese woman of 45. From the neck down, she is a petite girl of 23 with a boob job that suits her perfectly. She is professional rather than passionate, but a very solid professional, and her nuru massage includes option for oral (no cover) and convivo.

Best of all, 100/ h, which makes up for the ride out to see her.

Pessimist you and Steve write so well about the Pros and Cons of SA.

I stay in Florida near Tampa and have been seeing girls off SA. Usually white but some Latinas and mixed too.

The prices range from 300 to 550 for about 3 hours. For the lower end ones who do not drive I provide Uber up and down.

I have used SA for about 5 years too and used it in Dallas And LA.

Dallas the range was between 400 to 450 but here in FL it varies more depending on the need for money urgently for the girl.

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2623239]I think it is accurate to characterize my use of SA as casual. Part of that is that I used to make 5 or even 6 trips to DE annually which are heavy, volume based usage trips. Before and after each trip, I am satiated or saving up and not in a rush to get back into the SB scene. Secondly, by far the biggest constraint for me is to conduct these amorous activities in a clandestine fashion. It is not even about hiding; it is about not even raising the smallest hint of suspicion. Browsing the site, talking to dozens of girls, texting, arranging meetings, being away for hours, hiding the money tracks which is not easy given that we have a joint account of everything we own, etc etc is not an easy task. I feel like I am playing w / fire sometimes but so far I have managed it. In that sense, my constraints and priorities are quite uncommon.[/QUOTE]Pessimist, I did the same thing as you, and you are probably like you can handle this stress, this playing with fire. I am not judging you, but this was stressful, and I felt if I was caught, I would be shamed. It sounds like you are doing this partly out of boredom and for the rush, but I think part of it might be to escape shame at least that is the way it was with me.

And when you snapped at those morons who called you a cheater, that told me that you are kind of carrying a lot of shame with you because it is the same response I would have given.

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2623239]I am straying. I am looking for a physical outlet. What is the attraction in building alternate relationships? There are half a dozen sugarbabes who I repeated more than a handful of times, that's it. I definitely want to see some of them, plus the depressed girl is taking up half the Oxygen out of the room.[/QUOTE]If you are looking for a physical outlet, why are you hanging out with this depressed chick? Isn't the real reason if you save her from her depression, your self-worth will go up and give your ego a boost? And do you need the ego boost because of all that shame?

I want people to have a blast when they hobby but when people use it as therapy, that is a bad trip. I know. I have been there.

As for sugar babies, the reason I used them is the sex was better but in most cases, the women would slack off, and I would dump them. One woman told me, "those bitches will always be there", and she was right. It was rare I ever missed a SB after I dumped them.

Thing is when I went through the SB relationships, I realized if my wife was a SB, I would have dumped her.

I never should have used the hobby as therapy, and I have no regrets in the sense that it prolonged the marriage, but I regret that I used the hobby as therapy versus seeing a therapist. I would have been much less stressed and much happier sooner, but it was expensive and addictive and for all the wrong reasons.

Fucking other women or getting a divorce were my only two real options. My ex did not give me head for 10 years, and the reason for this was "your dick tastes funny. You need to wash it better." So she does not do her fucking wifely duties, and she blames me and I was paying for all the expenses. This is what so many women do. They replace effort with shame.

I asked other women about it and they said my dick was fine, and it was a great feeling when we got a divorce for me to tell her that one reason I strayed was not getting head. She repeated the funny tasting dick line, and I said, "That is funny. The other hundred women who sucked it did not seem to mind. "

In fact, of all the things that bugged her, this bugged her the most, and it shut off almost all sympathy for her especially from men. If you want an excuse for cheating that is PC, this is the ticket.

I regret putting women on pedestals and paying for shitty sex, but I do not regret paying for or having great sex. As much as I have, and I have had a lot, I wish I had more great sex. There are so many PC answers to give (helping others, my children) about the best parts of someone's life but probably the most fun in my life and what motivated me so much to do better was the fun of finding hotties to fuck.

And I do regret getting women as therapy, and Pessimist I just wanted to warn you not judge you. I apologize to the board for this serious intrusion but there is literally nowhere else for guys to talk about this.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2623382]Pessimist, I did the same thing as you, and you are probably like you can handle this stress, this playing with fire. I am not judging you, but this was stressful, and I felt if I was caught, I would be shamed. It sounds like you are doing this partly out of boredom and for the rush, but I think part of it might be to escape shame at least that is the way it was with me.

And when you snapped at those morons who called you a cheater, that told me that you are kind of carrying a lot of shame with you because it is the same response I would have given.

If you are looking for a physical outlet, why are you hanging out with this depressed chick? Isn't the real reason if you save her from her depression, your self-worth will go up and give your ego a boost? And do you need the ego boost because of all that shame?

I want people to have a blast when they hobby but when people use it as therapy, that is a bad trip. I know. I have been there.

As for sugar babies, the reason I used them is the sex was better but in most cases, the women would slack off, and I would dump them. One woman told me, "those bitches will always be there", and she was right. It was rare I ever missed a SB after I dumped them..[/QUOTE]Hey Elvis,

Thanks for your thoughts. I am not trying to rescue the depressed chick. Yes, I am texting to her more than my normal. With most sugarbabes, there is a good amount of chat (either inside SA box, or on the phone) prior to the first sex session. After that, it is strictly "when shall we meet. OK that works for me. See you then at this place X", bye". For example, with this college chick I banged 2 days ago, I haven't exchanged any texts since then, and don't plan to, till the next time we try to meet. But the depressed chick is needing more pep talk and I am just trying to cheer her up. Partly because I have seen this in my extended family first hand and feel sorry for her. But my brain is still functional and I have not given her any extra money out of pity. If I extend my pep talk help to wallet help, you can call me crazy and that would be justified.

"when you snapped at those morons who called you a cheater, that told me that you are kind of carrying a lot of shame" - I don't know if I agree. I personally don't feel any shame. I am somewhat thin skinned in general and don't hold my tongue when someone needlessly attacks me. But like many mongers, I don't feel that fucking multiple girls is a bad thing morally or any other way, and no, I don't feel any shame whatsoever. But for practical reasons, I obviously want to keep this side of my life from people around me or work colleagues.

I think there are 3 types of SBs and WGs.

(1) The ones who are young, hot, do not want to work hard, just want to make easy money and have fun.

(2) The ones who made the wrong choices in life. They use drugs, or picked a useless major in college, etc.

(3) The ones who ended up into a horrible situation. Their parents were losers or parents were drug users, or parents were uneducated, or they are from peasant families or just dirt poor, or maybe the husband is a deadbeat, or maybe they are a single mom, or maybe they suffer from a mental disease, etc.

I have no issues banging the chicks in the (1) and (2) categories.

However, I admire and feel sorry for the ones in the (3) category. And this is where I feel like a bad person. Because do they want to spread their legs to a stranger in his 50's? And so, I try to be generous with them, and sometimes I will help them out just without even meeting them. During the pandemic lockdown, I gave money to two gals that were desperate financially. Maybe I did it just to feel better about myself.

Sorry to be a downer. Just wanted to share this perspective to see what you guys think. I am sure some will emphathize with me and some will criticize me.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2623382]If you are looking for a physical outlet, why are you hanging out with this depressed chick? Isn't the real reason if you save her from her depression, your self-worth will go up and give your ego a boost? And do you need the ego boost because of all that shame?.[/QUOTE]Sorry, didn't answer your question. The main reason is that she is super gorgeous to me and I like the GFE sex with her very much. If she was an average looker, I would still feel sorry for her and would wish her the best, but would not spending a lot of time texting to cheer her up. I am not a saint, for sure.

[QUOTE=NapataJohn;2623323]Pessimist you and Steve write so well about the Pros and Cons of SA.

I stay in Florida near Tampa and have been seeing girls off SA. Usually white but some Latinas and mixed too.

The prices range from 300 to 550 for about 3 hours. For the lower end ones who do not drive I provide Uber up and down.

I have used SA for about 5 years too and used it in Dallas And LA.

Dallas the range was between 400 to 450 but here in FL it varies more depending on the need for money urgently for the girl.[/QUOTE]I had some luck in the past in Tampa and Miami area. I am a bit surprised at your price ranges because even as a non Floridian who visited that area occasionally, I had good success at the 300 price point with good looking white girls. How many girls do you hit up? I'd say, be persistent. You may not close the deal with the hot chicks in the first try but sometimes they come around.

I think you are ignoring a broad category that makes up a large percentage of the high-end escorts and Sugar Babies in large cities in the USA And some cities in Europe. The part-time lady who is actually majoring in a difficult subject at an expensive university, or has a pretty good (but not great) job in a very expensive to live-in city like NYC, and / or started in the first category and is disappointed with how low entry-level pay is in comparison to student loan debt in many professions (this lady won't start escorting or sugaring at that point in time, but if she did it in college she will still see her regulars). There are cities where the cost of living, particularly when education is factored in, are enormously expensive to live in, and very well-adjusted ladies do high-end sex work to keep from living in relative poverty and having to share space with lots of other girls, or beg from family.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2623397]I think there are 3 types of SBs and WGs.

(1) The ones who are young, hot, do not want to work hard, just want to make easy money and have fun.

(2) The ones who made the wrong choices in life. They use drugs, or picked a useless major in college, etc.

(3) The ones who ended up into a horrible situation. Their parents were losers or parents were drug users, or parents were uneducated, or they are from peasant families or just dirt poor, or maybe the husband is a deadbeat, or maybe they are a single mom, or maybe they suffer from a mental disease, etc.

I have no issues banging the chicks in the (1) and (2) categories.

However, I admire and feel sorry for the ones in the (3) category. And this is where I feel like a bad person. Because do they want to spread their legs to a stranger in his 50's? And so, I try to be generous with them, and sometimes I will help them out just without even meeting them. During the pandemic lockdown, I gave money to two gals that were desperate financially. Maybe I did it just to feel better about myself..[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Mongerer88;2623579]I think you are ignoring a broad category that makes up a large percentage of the high-end escorts and Sugar Babies in large cities in the USA And some cities in Europe. The part-time lady who is actually majoring in a difficult subject at an expensive university, or has a pretty good (but not great) job in a very expensive to live-in city like NYC, and / or started in the first category and is disappointed with how low entry-level pay is in comparison to student loan debt in many professions (this lady won't start escorting or sugaring at that point in time, but if she did it in college she will still see her regulars). There are cities where the cost of living, particularly when education is factored in, are enormously expensive to live in, and very well-adjusted ladies do high-end sex work to keep from living in relative poverty and having to share space with lots of other girls, or beg from family.[/QUOTE]Honestly, just on the SA site alone, I met so many categories. Their stories are different, their reasons to be here are different. It is not so easy to put all these people into a few boxes, anymore than you can put all the mongers into 3 boxes. And I generally limit myself to less than 25, white / Latina, slim bodied girls. On SA, you find ladies into their 50's and 60's. Of all shapes, sizes, hues, etc. The college girl I met works hard, is supporting herself and funding own college, and estranged from parents. The Latina momma works and making some money on the side to augment income. The lesbians both work, didn't even need the money tbh, and were curious. I was offered a visual show by a IR couple with an option to participate for an extra 150. I don't know their financial situation or reasons. The depressed chick is neither destitute nor lazy, she just has issues. There is a flight attendant I was talking to who often has night stays and extended stays in Orlando and wants to hook up for fun and also make some spending money. The stories go on and on.

Also, more than half of all sugarbabes on the site are strictly platonic, and many of them are strictly online. I don't even talk to them as soon as I realize their angle. They may have their own stories and reasons to be on the site, which may be completely different from what I know.

The good thing about the site is it brings them together, lets them make their own private deals. As it should be.

I had an SB for over an year. A student who didn't want to take money from her parents. We had a ball for over an year but she ended up in a very good job post that. She is a good friend now and appreciates my 'help' when she needed it. A very rare trait. Not greedy at all. I've moved to a different country now. But whenever I visit sf she spends a good amount of time with me and she doesn't take any allowance. This is an investment that paid off.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2623397]I think there are 3 types of SBs and WGs.

(1) The ones who are young, hot, do not want to work hard, just want to make easy money and have fun.

(2) The ones who made the wrong choices in life. They use drugs, or picked a useless major in college, etc.

(3) The ones who ended up into a horrible situation. Their parents were losers or parents were drug users, or parents were uneducated, or they are from peasant families or just dirt poor, or maybe the husband is a deadbeat, or maybe they are a single mom, or maybe they suffer from a mental disease, etc.

I have no issues banging the chicks in the (1) and (2) categories.

However, I admire and feel sorry for the ones in the (3) category. And this is where I feel like a bad person. Because do they want to spread their legs to a stranger in his 50's? And so, I try to be generous with them, and sometimes I will help them out just without even meeting them. During the pandemic lockdown, I gave money to two gals that were desperate financially. Maybe I did it just to feel better about myself.

Sorry to be a downer. Just wanted to share this perspective to see what you guys think. I am sure some will emphathize with me and some will criticize me.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Mongerer88;2623579]I think you are ignoring a broad category that makes up a large percentage of the high-end escorts and Sugar Babies in large cities in the USA And some cities in Europe. The part-time lady who is actually majoring in a difficult subject at an expensive university, or has a pretty good (but not great) job in a very expensive to live-in city like NYC, and / or started in the first category and is disappointed with how low entry-level pay is in comparison to student loan debt in many professions (this lady won't start escorting or sugaring at that point in time, but if she did it in college she will still see her regulars). There are cities where the cost of living, particularly when education is factored in, are enormously expensive to live in, and very well-adjusted ladies do high-end sex work to keep from living in relative poverty and having to share space with lots of other girls, or beg from family.[/QUOTE]Yep. I'the say I like this category best. Four of my last five babies fall in this category. Sharp girls with real jobs or school but need extra income to live at some reasonable level. And I'the say 3 of the 5 (all black fwiw) are super sex positive. Like sex is awesome and why not have as much as possible. May as well make a buck while doing it. Smart modern girls. I really do dig them and in some way even admire them.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2623694]Yep. I'the say I like this category best. Four of my last five babies fall in this category. Sharp girls with real jobs or school but need extra income to live at some reasonable level. And I'the say 3 of the 5 (all black fwiw) are super sex positive. Like sex is awesome and why not have as much as possible. May as well make a buck while doing it. Smart modern girls. I really do dig them and in some way even admire them.[/QUOTE]Steve,

You know I like the white girls and the Latinas. So tell me. Really, what is the percentage of those types on SA looking for daddies? I know you don't care for the "brancas", but you should at least have firsthand knowledge of how many are looking in a place like SA (or similar). Was funny because I was out at a bar the other night and there were some white college girls there telling me I was "hot", and one said "there goes my baby's daddy" hahaha! If I ever choose to go down this path, that's what I would want. White and Latina college girls only!

Oh the 550 is because she drives an hour and then back. The others are between 300 to 400 plus uber.

[QUOTE=NapataJohn;2623731]Oh the 550 is because she drives an hour and then back. The others are between 300 to 400 plus uber.[/QUOTE]Personally, 300 or thereabouts should be sufficient to get many pretty white girls in the Tampa region. It is not an expensive city, and in any case I have had some personal experience there.

I think 350+ is justified only in big blue coastal cities like Boston, SF, NYC, DC, LA, etc. I stopped using SA in those places a couple of years ago. I had a few girls in Boston but has continued to decline steadily over time. I don't even try in SF or NYC. But 350 or less is plenty even in Miami, let alone Tampa in my view. Just have to hit up a lot of girls, hold firm. Eventually, you will have 5 to 10 who will agree.

Simply put, in a large city like Tampa there are enough pretty white girls to whom 300 is a good payday for spending 2 to 3 hours with a dude. Our job is to find them.

[QUOTE=TheCane;2623700]Steve,

You know I like the white girls and the Latinas. So tell me. Really, what is the percentage of those types on SA looking for daddies? I know you don't care for the "brancas", but you should at least have firsthand knowledge of how many are looking in a place like SA (or similar). Was funny because I was out at a bar the other night and there were some white college girls there telling me I was "hot", and one said "there goes my baby's daddy" hahaha! If I ever choose to go down this path, that's what I would want. White and Latina college girls only![/QUOTE]Don't worry there are plenty of those. I am chattting up a hot Mexican girl even as I write this. And actually in one city where I go I find the pickings with the white girls are better. Went off script w one and she became a reg. And I am actually seeing a white girl from 2019 soon who I got down with a couple times. Full disclosure both these white girls were strippers not deep college material but plenty of fun to hang with and bang with.

The way to do Seeking is to browse. Browsing is free. I only started paying when I hit a girl I simply had to have. This was prob after three months of browsing. So browse away. Just no chatting till you pay.

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2623394]I personally don't feel any shame. I am somewhat thin skinned in general and don't hold my tongue when someone needlessly attacks me. But like many mongers, I don't feel that fucking multiple girls is a bad thing morally or any other way, and no, I don't feel any shame whatsoever. But for practical reasons, I obviously want to keep this side of my life from people around me or work colleagues.[/QUOTE]I just want to finish up. With seeing other women, I NEVER thought it was wrong. It took longer to get to the point where I did not feel it was wrong, but being shamed has to do with not living up to my feelings but societal feelings. That is what you afraid of at work, the stress of being shamed. You are a guy, and the first thing a guy does with stress is say he can handle it. I was the EXACT same way. I am just telling you that once that stress was gone and that shame or fear of being shamed was gone it was an incredible relief. Maybe that is not you. I do not know. Just letting you know.

As for your depressed woman, is she bipolar do you think? When there is a hot chick with bouts of depression who is great in bed, I usually think that. I usually find women who are bipolar or ADHD have the best bodies. It is because they have to work out to be mentally normal I think. If she is manic depressive or bipolar, you can be nice to her, but it is probably not going to matter. They need crazy strong medicine to feel better.

So besides being the best looking, when bipolars are manic or women with ADHD being themselves, they are also very orgasmic with the bipolars winning out. I think my current gal has some ADHD but treats it with crazy long workouts.

So there is a stripper I used to see and do it the right way, PPM, and she is so damned good that I see every few weeks for a few months. She turns out to be bipolar, smokes weed, and that seems to control her mania. Still, we fuck and on average she would have 3 or 4 orgasms.

So we go at it again. This time she is like having an orgasm every 5 seconds or practically throughout the whole act of sex. It was great, but we finish and I ask her what has changed. She tells me that she quit smoking weed, and I notice she is more manic. With bipolar, the mania gets going, then your body runs out of gas, and you fall off a cliff and get super depressed, and I saw that happening with her. So I gave her a little extra and told her, "Use that extra to buy yourself some weed. I think you need it."

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2623789]I just want to finish up. With seeing other women, I NEVER thought it was wrong. It took longer to get to the point where I did not feel it was wrong, but being shamed has to do with not living up to my feelings but societal feelings. That is what you afraid of at work, the stress of being shamed. You are a guy, and the first thing a guy does with stress is say he can handle it. I was the EXACT same way. I am just telling you that once that stress was gone and that shame or fear of being shamed was gone it was an incredible relief. Maybe that is not you. I do not know. Just letting you know.

As for your depressed woman, is she bipolar do you think? When there is a hot chick with bouts of depression who is great in bed, I usually think that. I usually find women who are bipolar or ADHD have the best bodies. It is because they have to work out to be mentally normal I think. If she is manic depressive or bipolar, you can be nice to her, but it is probably not going to matter. They need crazy strong medicine to feel better.

So besides being the best looking, when bipolars are manic or women with ADHD being themselves, they are also very orgasmic with the bipolars winning out. I think my current gal has some ADHD but treats it with crazy long workouts.

So there is a stripper I used to see and do it the right way, PPM, and she is so damned good that I see every few weeks for a few months. She turns out to be bipolar, smokes weed, and that seems to control her mania. Still, we fuck and on average she would have 3 or 4 orgasms.[/QUOTE]Well, I am sure there will be some loss of face in front of people who think I am respectable if they were to know I am fucking dozens of girls a year and still want more. But more importantly, I have a well paying gig and the culture in our partnership is to be buttoned down, no scandals etc. Perverted characters are not tolerated (perverted: their characterization, not me). There is zero upside and only downside to advertising my extra curricular activities.

Anyway, do we need to have a psycho analysis of why a married guy cheats? Really? Listen. I am married, I have kids, I have a nice job, I am a regular dude in the society but I have hormones. I am sure I am not alone in wanting to fuck as many as I want to. I will make it happen but I will not jeopardize the rest of my life, if I can help it.

I am not a huge expert on depression, bipolar etc. I am not a medical person. I did see one family member suffering through this, and that was more of GAD. I thought bipolar people would alternate between extreme feelings and expression of such extremes? For all I know, this chick is faking, who knows. I chatted with her for many years on and off, but met her only recently. I don't know for what purpose because I am not giving any extra money as a bonus for having depression. On a per meet basis, she works out cheaper than the college chick. Also, she is very pretty, she gives GFE but she is not that good in the mechanics (such as BJ). It is more of cuddly, kissy sex if that makes sense.

So far, this chick just goes into crying, a lot of ghosting, canceled dates etc. No screaming, no throwing stuff, no blackmailing and threats etc. But if it ever went in that direction, I will cut ties immediately. There are too many other girls and I will not risk my family life for this one chick.

Yeah, you guys are totally right. I forgot about the category of SBs (and some WGs) that have decent jobs, but they just hook or SB on the side for some extra cash. In fact, these are specifically the ones that I searched for on SA.

Anyway, I just brought up the categories because I wanted to hear your thoughts on the gals that are good people, but they sell their bodies because they feel like they have no other choice in order to survive for themselves and / or for their family. I am regularly seeing several gals that fall into this category, and it is eating me up.

For example, they are single moms with no money and with very poor parents and are from a very rural part of the country. They leave their kids back home and come to the big city to sell their bodies to have enough money to take care of the family. I feel guilty about seeing them, because I feel like I am taking advantage of their bad situation in life. And because my situation is the opposite of theirs. I was born into a good family, and raised well. I am actually lazy and a loser, but because I have a college degree that my parents paid for, I am doing okay financially with a decent job. And so, I feel like I am bad person because I am taking advantage of good people. I did not deserve my good fate and they did not deserve their bad fates. Ironically, they are among the best WGs, SBs, GFs that I ever had.

It's an article I found online about sugar babies.

[URL]https://www.buzzfeed.com/sydrobinson1/sugar-baby-confessions[/URL]

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2623818]Yeah, you guys are totally right. I forgot about the category of SBs (and some WGs) that have decent jobs, but they just hook or SB on the side for some extra cash. In fact, these are specifically the ones that I searched for on SA.

Anyway, I just brought up the categories because I wanted to hear your thoughts on the gals that are good people, but they sell their bodies because they feel like they have no other choice in order to survive for themselves and / or for their family. I am regularly seeing several gals that fall into this category, and it is eating me up.

For example, they are single moms with no money and with very poor parents and are from a very rural part of the country. They leave their kids back home and come to the big city to sell their bodies to have enough money to take care of the family. I feel guilty about seeing them, because I feel like I am taking advantage of their bad situation in life. And because my situation is the opposite of theirs. I was born into a good family, and raised well. I am actually lazy and a loser, but because I have a college degree that my parents paid for, I am doing okay financially with a decent job. And so, I feel like I am bad person because I am taking advantage of good people. I did not deserve my good fate and they did not deserve their bad fates. Ironically, they are among the best WGs, SBs, GFs that I ever had.[/QUOTE]You are a good guy, Midwestern. I don't think you should feel that way. Sorry, it is not my business to give advice to others, but just couldn't help myself for a minute. I also think "selling bodies" has an ugly connotation to it. It is two bodies coming together. The key is that she has a good, fun experience. If she is in obvious distress then it is a different matter. If she is visibly looking unhappy about getting fucked, I don't believe you will continue. If she is doing against her true will, you are not the one who put her there in that situation. Specially not in a sugarbabe relationship. In a FKK, there is some chance the girl was brought against her will. In German forums there have been many discussions of Romanian loverboys who traffic the girls in. No one knows the truth, and how many are trafficked and how many came on their own. As Steve said once, no one wants the cow slaughtered on their table, they just want to eat the steak. At least you are a nice compassionate person who is gentle with the girl and gives good money. If not you, is she better off w / someone else who may be rough physically and cheats on the money?

I again say, it is too simplistic to put sugarbabes in a few buckets. It just means you haven't had a chance to meet more (not you personally; I know you are super experienced, probably more experienced than me). The more girls I talk to, there are more stories and more nuances. I find them interesting, enjoy the getting to know part and of course the sex, and soon will forget them and find new ones. In a manner of speaking, they are like the girls who sat next to you and talked to you on a plane journey; we share a time and place for a brief time and then poof, gone our separate ways. Only memories.

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2623772]Personally, 300 or thereabouts should be sufficient to get many pretty white girls in the Tampa region. It is not an expensive city, and in any case I have had some personal experience there..[/QUOTE]Pessimist I am sure you are right but I tend not to spend too much time negotiating down as I feel it spoils the meeting. She may not be so motivated during the meet, a 100 more is okay with me. Prefer being happy in these meetings than feeling she may not be so enthusiastic.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2623818]Yeah, you guys are totally right. I forgot about the category of SBs (and some WGs) that have decent jobs, but they just hook or SB on the side for some extra cash. In fact, these are specifically the ones that I searched for on SA.

Anyway, I just brought up the categories because I wanted to hear your thoughts on the gals that are good people, but they sell their bodies because they feel like they have no other choice in order to survive for themselves and / or for their family. I am regularly seeing several gals that fall into this category, and it is eating me up.

For example, they are single moms with no money and with very poor parents and are from a very rural part of the country. They leave their kids back home and come to the big city to sell their bodies to have enough money to take care of the family. I feel guilty about seeing them, because I feel like I am taking advantage of their bad situation in life. And because my situation is the opposite of theirs. I was born into a good family, and raised well. I am actually lazy and a loser, but because I have a college degree that my parents paid for, I am doing okay financially with a decent job. And so, I feel like I am bad person because I am taking advantage of good people. I did not deserve my good fate and they did not deserve their bad fates. Ironically, they are among the best WGs, SBs, GFs that I ever had.[/QUOTE]I'the say MW you are just the opposite of a bad person. A bad person will not be thinking the thoughts you do; he will not care about their life situation. The fact that you care for these girls and their situation means you have a good soul. Not that you are a saint but honestly you are probably a god send for this type girl. They have to fuck every opportunity even horrible misogynistic dudes and who treat them badly. You are no doubt a breath of fresh air in addition to cash.

I think I am a pretty nice guy but I don't like to fly too close to the flame. I had a brief SB once who would ask for diaper and formula money and I just couldn't keep on because it was depressing to be that close to her real life. I felt bad about it and I suppose it was selfish but I am def making sure I enjoy myself in my last 25 years or whatever. When it comes to SB whenever possible for a girl I want to be the frosting not the cake!

[QUOTE=NapataJohn;2623957]Pessimist I am sure you are right but I tend not to spend too much time negotiating down as I feel it spoils the meeting. She may not be so motivated during the meet, a 100 more is okay with me. Prefer being happy in these meetings than feeling she may not be so enthusiastic.[/QUOTE]I understand. Anyway, you are an experienced sugardad. Don't think I need to tell you anything. If you are looking to pay 500, I bet you are able to get the creme de la creme, and extended service with everything included, whatever you desire. Happy hunting!

[QUOTE=NapataJohn;2623957]Pessimist I am sure you are right but I tend not to spend too much time negotiating down as I feel it spoils the meeting. She may not be so motivated during the meet, a 100 more is okay with me. Prefer being happy in these meetings than feeling she may not be so enthusiastic.[/QUOTE]Yeah I was finding in bigger cities in 2019 that it was tough to get a hot girl for less than 400. And that became my max. Then during Covid it seemed 500 was getting more regular. Although honestly I didn't try too hard. My logic was yeah I can prob get her to 400 but that's 100 more in my pocket and 100 less on hers. I have no doubt I will never miss this 100 or even the 1000 if we are lucky enough to have ten visits (looking at you Kayla!) so I let it slide at 500. Of course I'm getting 24 hrs and bareback and complete GFE in all respects. So it's an amazing deal.
(And slightly second tier girls — a little heavy or less pretty — but not both! At 300).

But I feel downward price pressure as we emerge here. We shall see!

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2624146]![/QUOTE]Steve the optics and personality of the SA girl I meet is very important for me more than the money I pay. I would rather pay more for 2 good meetings than 4 ordinary meetings.

Plus I have old SBs from 4 years ago that I meet when I go to that town or city. I have helped them out in hard times and thankfully there remember that even now. Example if you say meet 4 ordinary girls for 300 each or meet 2 very attractive girls for 700 each time I will for sure choose the latter. I hope that this sort of thinking aligns with your approach or thoughts.

[QUOTE=Ruch888;2622430]Hey all,.[/QUOTE]Use this and they will think you are from USA. Very cool app.

[URL]https://www.expressvpn.com/[/URL]

Trying out SA at the moment. There's a smoking hot girl, 24, single mum, about 20 minutes drive from me. She wants £100 for a meet plus childcare of £20, quick drink at the pub then across the road to her place. Confirmed with a videocall she is the girl in the pictures. New profile, created today. So maybe she's clueless?

Back and forth over 'need to send money for childcare first' - obviously, I'm not sending anything.

Finally got her to agree to meet me first, then I'd give her the childcare money. 99.999% certain I'm being sent off on a wildgoose chase. But I haven't got anything else to do today. And that 0. 001% chance it isn't, well fantastic!

Still 50/50 whether I'm going to even bother taking the drive.

[QUOTE=JJanni;2624402]Trying out SA at the moment. There's a smoking hot girl, 24, single mum, about 20 minutes drive from me. She wants 100 for a meet plus childcare of 20, quick drink at the pub then across the road to her place. Confirmed with a videocall she is the girl in the pictures. New profile, created today. So maybe she's clueless?

Back and forth over 'need to send money for childcare first' - obviously, I'm not sending anything.

Finally got her to agree to meet me first, then I'd give her the childcare money. 99.999% certain I'm being sent off on a wildgoose chase. But I haven't got anything else to do today. And that 0. 001% chance it isn't, well fantastic!

Still 50/50 whether I'm going to even bother taking the drive.[/QUOTE]Love your never say die attitude. Why not go in glass half full but with low expectations. I like it. But def I'm betting on the 99.9999% outcome! Best of luck!

Ps loved reading ur recent reports. In the Phuket thread as i recall?

Damn I must be living right. My rekindle of a late 2019 girl in a second tier city I visit far exceeded expectations. Ended up giving her 400 after a six hour date including 3 full hours in the bedroom and two mega shots. In the past we were pressed for time and it was very transactional. This time it was much more BFGF once we got going and man does she love to drink and becomes quite the vixen once the Tito's is flowing.

Full report to follow.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2624452]Love your never say die attitude. Why not go in glass half full but with low expectations. I like it. But def I'm betting on the 99.9999% outcome! Best of luck!

Ps loved reading ur recent reports. In the Phuket thread as i recall?[/QUOTE]Yes, that was me. Phuket and Pattaya. Was considering a bandit run back to Thailand but timings just aren't going to work.

Smoking hot single momma' never came off. Definite scammer. But at least she's a polite scammer who didn't let me do a 40 minute round trip.

Got another girl lined up for tomorrow morning, 40 minutes away. Short, petite 25 year old black British girl. Confirmed ID with videocall. BBFSCIP agreed to upfront (very reluctantly) for £150 ppm. All the other girls I've taken to WhatsApp are wanting £250+ per meet.

[QUOTE=JJanni;2624473]Yes, that was me. Phuket and Pattaya. Was considering a bandit run back to Thailand but timings just aren't going to work.

Smoking hot single momma' never came off. Definite scammer. But at least she's a polite scammer who didn't let me do a 40 minute round trip.

Got another girl lined up for tomorrow morning, 40 minutes away. Short, petite 25 year old black British girl. Confirmed ID with videocall. BBFSCIP agreed to upfront (very reluctantly) for 150 ppm. All the other girls I've taken to WhatsApp are wanting 250+ per meet.[/QUOTE]Yeah I find London breaks my formula. In the US the cost of a pro for an hour is a good proxy for an SA girl for the evening. But in London I can get a nice girl for 150-200 £ at Diva say. But I couldn't find SA girls there. 250 £ was as low as I found in my limited experience when pass thru in 2019 and 2020.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2624541]Yeah I find London breaks my formula. In the US the cost of a pro for an hour is a good proxy for an SA girl for the evening. But in London I can get a nice girl for 150-200 at Diva say. But I couldn't find SA girls there. 250 was as low as I found in my limited experience when pass thru in 2019 and 2020.[/QUOTE]I'm in the NorthWest, bordering upon the West Midlands.

I've got the slums of Liverpool, Birmingham and Manchester within spitting distance and these girls are still talking stupid numbers. It's a filtering game, isn't it?

Met another new girl today. Met her around 2:30 PM, so it was past lunch time. Went straight to the hotel. A bit risky for my taste, but I let the dick run my head. Pretty tall girl, 5'10"; White; not fat but not skinny either; she was really athletic. Pretty face, upturned nose and slight dimples, the kinda girl that drives me crazy. 22 years old, almost 23. She is a recent transplant to my city from a coastal state. Very outgoing, quite confident, super experienced babe. Had been doing this since she was 18, she said. We met in some parking lot, she came and sat in my car and we drove to a hotel nearby, she didn't have the slightest hesitation getting into the car of a stranger. I took it as a compliment that she trusted me enough. She is very experienced sexually, she admitted she had multiple sugardads not to mention several boyfriends and fuckboys of her own. Into the room, right away began with deep kissing, disrobed me and gave very wet blow job; she encouraged me to finger her with 3 fingers, and almost squirted; very wet in fact, rarely see it. 20 to 30 minutes of fucking in multiple positions; for some reason could not cum. She peeled off the condom, and blew me again with me standing up and her on the knees, and swallowed every last drop. Wow. That last act alone costs like a 50 extra in FKKs and they immediately spit it into a paper towel before I even stop cumming. This one wiped me so cleanly, I could have put my underwear on with no more rinsing.

The session itself didn't last more than 70 minutes. Very different session from the one with my college girl that spent 3+ hours with me, 2 in the room. But the girl today is a lot more pro, although of the same age.

There was a porn star called Meggan Mallone 10 to 15 years ago. Today's girl could be her twin, where looks are concerned.

[QUOTE=JJanni;2624473]Yes, that was me. Phuket and Pattaya. Was considering a bandit run back to Thailand but timings just aren't going to work.

Smoking hot single momma' never came off. Definite scammer. But at least she's a polite scammer who didn't let me do a 40 minute round trip.

Got another girl lined up for tomorrow morning, 40 minutes away. Short, petite 25 year old black British girl. Confirmed ID with videocall. BBFSCIP agreed to upfront (very reluctantly) for 150 ppm. All the other girls I've taken to WhatsApp are wanting 250+ per meet.[/QUOTE]So, this could be a winner.

Videocalled her again last, sweet talked her into showing me her pussy. Cute, very hairy. And she was wet, very wet, making cute little noises when she spread herself. I think all the talk of cumming in her pussy turned her on.

I'm taking the ungroomed nature (she's agreed to shave) and the wetnesss as a good sign. Inclined to believe her when she says she hasn't had sex in a year.

Got a date set in a couple of hours time, will report back.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2624458]Ended up giving her 400 after a six hour date including 3 full hours in the bedroom and two mega shots.[/QUOTE]Man, I love long fuck sessions. Last fall, when I rented that apartment for 6 months, the first time that I brought Maya there, I stuck my dick into her and we fucked for 5 hours. I just stuck it in and then we did DFK for the entire time. We did a food break in the middle of it. But LOL, she had no idea what she was in for, and she complained about it hard the next day, saying that she could barely walk. But her vagina felt amazing and her body was amazing and she was a great kisser and just totally beautiful, and so those 5 hours went by pretty fast. Too bad that she dumped me in February.

This year, my longest fuck session was with an MP gal that was super into me, and I even rented an apartment for her. We would fuck for three hours at a time. She never wanted to stop, she loved it too.

I always took a couple of gulps of beer before long sessions, to make sure my dick was numb so that I would not cum.

Tomorrow I am supposed to see that married skinny MILF. She is also usually DTF for hours too, but lately we just go at it for only 2 hours. I guess the novelty is slowly wearing off with her.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2623818]Yeah, you guys are totally right. I forgot about the category of SBs (and some WGs) that have decent jobs, but they just hook or SB on the side for some extra cash. In fact, these are specifically the ones that I searched for on SA.


Anyway, I just brought up the categories because I wanted to hear your thoughts on the gals that are good people, but they sell their bodies because they feel like they have no other choice in order to survive for themselves and / or for their family. I am regularly seeing several gals that fall into this category, and it is eating me up.
For example, they are single moms with no money and with very poor parents and are from a very rural part of the country. They leave their kids back home and come to the big city to sell their bodies to have enough money to take care of the family. I feel guilty about seeing them, because I feel like I am taking advantage of their bad situation in life. And because my situation is the opposite of theirs. I was born into a good family, and raised well. I am actually lazy and a loser, but because I have a college degree that my parents paid for, I am doing okay financially with a decent job. And so, I feel like I am bad person because I am taking advantage of good people. I did not deserve my good fate and they did not deserve their bad fates. Ironically, they are among the best WGs, SBs, GFs that I ever had.[/QUOTE]Never thought this was where my Mom's SD dates from the 70's would finally make sense. She kept me from knowing (but years later I figured it out) There was no SA then. The USA was a perfect, clean, pious place to grow up in. Where we lived in a preachers home (my grandfather, yikes!) & all the time Mom had at least 5-6 SD's that I know now helped her to make it in that country town. And we only left when she married a wealth businessman (my stepfather) . So I guess it's no wonder in today's world I get to do the same. I help that 4th category and fuk the guilt, having sex with the most gorgeous women I can find as often as possible. It is a relief to read these posts. See you all in Medellin, one month beginning November 24. Elvis?

[QUOTE=JJanni;2624735]So, this could be a winner.

Videocalled her again last, sweet talked her into showing me her pussy. Cute, very hairy. And she was wet, very wet, making cute little noises when she spread herself. I think all the talk of cumming in her pussy turned her on.

I'm taking the ungroomed nature (she's agreed to shave) and the wetness as a good sign. Inclined to believe her when she says she hasn't had sex in a year.

Got a date set in a couple of hours time, will report back.[/QUOTE]Date never came off. I was on the way and the girl videocalled, half gazeboed at 10 am and asking me to bring more booze with me. Noped out, too skeezy even for me.

I've got a couple of other girls on the hook. Pretty, 23 year old single mum from near Liverpool. A chav for my fellow Brits (I am kind of into that.) BBFSCIP agreed to for 150 ppm. Meeting her at a hotel Sunday. From our chat and videocall, she seems proper filthy. In a good way.

Gorgeous, stacked Black British 20 year old in Liverpool for 200 ppm. BBFSCIP. Possibly might go and see her Tuesday or Wednesday.

Looked into SA during Covid, but it was too difficult to arrange anything with the hotels shuts. Did my research and got all the cheat phrases and advice. It amazes me that these girls don't see themselves as W G. But if you messaged them, '150 an hour outcall, bareback and cum in pussy' you'd get shut down in an instant.

This SA thing is going to bankrupt me though.

[QUOTE=JJanni;2625026]Date never came off. I was on the way and the girl videocalled, half gazeboed at 10 am and asking me to bring more booze with me. Noped out, too skeezy even for me.

I've got a couple of other girls on the hook. Pretty, 23 year old single mum from near Liverpool. A chav for my fellow Brits (I am kind of into that.) BBFSCIP agreed to for 150 ppm. Meeting her at a hotel Sunday. From our chat and videocall, she seems proper filthy. In a good way.

Gorgeous, stacked Black British 20 year old in Liverpool for 200 ppm. BBFSCIP. Possibly might go and see her Tuesday or Wednesday.

Looked into SA during Covid, but it was too difficult to arrange anything with the hotels shuts. Did my research and got all the cheat phrases and advice. It amazes me that these girls don't see themselves as W G. But if you messaged them, '150 an hour outcall, bareback and cum in pussy' you'd get shut down in an instant.

This SA thing is going to bankrupt me though.[/QUOTE]So if you don't talk BBFScip early it sounds like U do talk about that some time. Personally I’d be scared of any that allow CIP. That’s a level of desperation that I don’t want to get close to. When and how are you bringing it up to these girls? I know the girls I am after would ghost me in two seconds. Sounds like you are finding more WG style girls?

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2625033]So if you don't talk BBFScip early it sounds like I do talk about that some time. When and how are you bringing it up to these girls? I know the girls I am after would ghost me in two seconds. Sounds like you are finding more WG style girls?[/QUOTE]I've got maybe four categories I've mentally put the girls (that aren't / probably aren't video sellers / scammers) into;.

Escorts. Probably have an AdultWork account or if they don't, they should. They're after £200+ppm and have a list of dos and donts. Bareback is a definite no go, like it would be with most of the girls on Adultwork if you ask for it straight up, out of the blue.

Absolute skanks. They're offering it up at 100-150 ppm. Drunks, drunk addicts, fat an / or fuck ugly!

Semi-pro kinda girls. Newish to the game, maybe hurting for short term money, mid-tier attractiveness, think there's probably a difference between them and a straight up escort. Probably not aware of their 'worth' yet. Condom use outside of the P4 p world isn't as prevalent as you might think so it isn't an absolute 'no' with these girls to fuck without a condom. Generally I find they're biting at 150 ppm or 200 ppm.

Proper SBs (the ones I'm interested in anyway) - Teen, early twenties, pretty as fuck stunners with perfect bodies. Aware of how the game is played, so will take PPM if you play it right. Generally going for 200-250+ppm.

I ditch the first two categories on discovery, focus on the second;.

My profile makes a big deal about how I travel for work and pleasure so much, lots of pictures of exotic locales, so no time for a traditional relationship. When we get chatting, I'll talk about a previous (imaginary) SB I had a casual, ongoing relationship with. She was so chill, 25, good job, we'd meet at hers a couple nights a month when I was in the UK, takeaway, wine and a movie. I'm a wealthy guy, see, just simple. (sets expectations that five star hotel and a £100 dinner on a PPM won't be forthcoming, not my style see.).

Talk about how I want to rekindle that, loved the casual and intimate nature bla-bla. Eventually move the conversation on to sexual likes and dislikes. With the stunner SBs, that's where I leave it. If we can find a PPM that works for both of us, I'd be happy for that quality of girl to use a condom. BBFSCIP with those girls I feel (and it has been my experience in other arenas) is more likely to happen with a 'go with the flow' in the room approach. Take your time on foreplay and teasing, get them off with oral yada-yada. An untested theory with SBs.

The 'semi-pro' girls, that's the point I'll ask if they're on birth control and get tested regularly. If they say no, they're probably lying and cutting the bareback question off. Sometimes they say yes and 'I always use protection. ' If they yes and nothing else, I start gushing about 'Oh good, that's what I miss most about previous relationship, the worry free, natural sex, the intimacy of cumming inside bla bla. ' Often the response I get is something like 'oh yes' and even an admission of 'hating the feel of condoms. '.

All untested yet. YMMV, for all I know I'm just talking to scammers / video sellers and bored girls with no intentions of meeting.

[QUOTE=DonCarlos1234;2624758] I help that 4th category and fuk the guilt, having sex with the most gorgeous women I can find as often as possible. It is a relief to read these posts. See you all in Medellin, one month beginning November 24. Elvis?[/QUOTE]Flight for Cartagena now is November 30 to December 6. I am working like a MF last two weeks of December but might be able to stay until the 8th.

Hopefully, we will be setting up our apartment in Cartagena then. It will be nice to have an apartment just the way I / we want it.

I am working on a threesome but it is not going so well. According to this video, I am probably at stage 2: [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txrnbga-zDA[/URL].

With my luck, she will say okay on a threesome and then want it to be with another guy.

I feel like I am a disappointment to the forum but what do you do when you find a girl who gets more stares than anyone you have ever been with, does not ask for a dime, is so sweet she will do anything you ask both in and out of the bedroom, and gets pissed when she does not get it at least 3 X a day?

The women usually have a weakness. It is rare to find a woman top 10 (for me) in kissing, giving head, fucking, and sex drive. That never happens but it did with her. I think God will curse me with shitty sex the rest of my life if I mess this up.

If you come to CTG, the place to go is supposedly Dolce Vita. One guy said it had more hot women per square inch than anywhere in the world. My gal actually was interested in going there and going dancing.

I do not know about you but I have this annoying little habit of looking at other women when I am with my gal or another one. Inevitably, when I think I have the hottest, there is one better. That has not happened with her either. There has been a few rare times there has been equal but not better.

It looks like I am destined to be a one woman man. How the hell did this happen?

Man, wouldn't you be a little worried if any gal agreed to BBFSCIP from the very beginning? Any new girl that agrees to that from the very beginning, then it suggests that she is doing it with lots of others. It kind of indicates that she does not place any value on herself and on her life and is indifferent if she dies from a risk or a disease.

I love BBFS, but I can almost never get it from a new gal right away, but after the gal becomes familar with me, feels safe with me, and kind of even likes me, (and this might take months), she might eventually let me bareback her. Just last week, I finally barebacked someone that I've been doing covered sex with for a couple of years. We were making out passionately, and before she knew what was going on, I slipped my uncovered cock into her, and she freaked out, but after a minute of my reassuring her and gently comforting her, she relented. So, given that it took a couple of years to get to this point, I feel like I kind of earned it. A few days ago, I saw her again, and this time we just went straight to bareback. It does not always take this long to bareback someone of course. Sometimes it only took me a few months, and in a few rare cases it only took me a few dates. But eventually, I am able to bareback most gals if I want to, even though almost all of them adamantly refused barebacking from the beginning.

And so, my point is, maybe just gradually and patiently ease into it, and not ask for it right away.

[QUOTE=JJanni;2625026]Date never came off. I was on the way and the girl videocalled, half gazeboed at 10 am and asking me to bring more booze with me. Noped out, too skeezy even for me.

I've got a couple of other girls on the hook. Pretty, 23 year old single mum from near Liverpool. A chav for my fellow Brits (I am kind of into that.) BBFSCIP agreed to for 150 ppm. Meeting her at a hotel Sunday. From our chat and videocall, she seems proper filthy. In a good way.

Gorgeous, stacked Black British 20 year old in Liverpool for 200 ppm. BBFSCIP. Possibly might go and see her Tuesday or Wednesday.

Looked into SA during Covid, but it was too difficult to arrange anything with the hotels shuts. Did my research and got all the cheat phrases and advice. It amazes me that these girls don't see themselves as W G. But if you messaged them, '150 an hour outcall, bareback and cum in pussy' you'd get shut down in an instant.

This SA thing is going to bankrupt me though.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2625275]Man, wouldn't you be a little worried if any gal agreed to BBFSCIP from the very beginning? Any new girl that agrees to that from the very beginning, then it suggests that she is doing it with lots of others. It kind of indicates that she does not place any value on herself and on her life and is indifferent if she dies from a risk or a disease.

I love BBFS, but I can almost never get it from a new gal right away, but after the gal becomes familar with me, feels safe with me, and kind of even likes me, (and this might take months), she might eventually let me bareback her. Just last week, I finally barebacked someone that I've been doing covered sex with for a couple of years. We were making out passionately, and before she knew what was going on, I slipped my uncovered cock into her, and she freaked out, but after a minute of my reassuring her and gently comforting her, she relented. So, given that it took a couple of years to get to this point, I feel like I kind of earned it. A few days ago, I saw her again, and this time we just went straight to bareback. It does not always take this long to bareback someone of course. Sometimes it only took me a few months, and in a few rare cases it only took me a few dates. But eventually, I am able to bareback most gals if I want to, even though almost all of them adamantly refused barebacking from the beginning.

And so, my point is, maybe just gradually and patiently ease into it, and not ask for it right away.[/QUOTE]I'm a serial non-monogamist which is why I'm in this hobby. By the second or third session, I'm losing interest. Give me Keira Knightley all holes, all night long, bareback and she pays me. The second session isn't as good as the first and by the third, I'm planning on how to ditch her. It will never beat the thrill of getting a new girl's knickers off, discovering what she's like in bed, seeing (if it isn't discussed up front) whether I'm 'smooth' to get it to happen in the room, slide in there and cum inside her.

With the girls I've got upfront agreements from, I'm selective. And it might sound like I've made getting the agreement easy, but it's taken a lot of chatting, videocalls etc with the girls I might actually go and see. In person, I'd back away if there was anything suspicious to put me off.

Am I naïve enough to think I'd be the only one they're doing it with? No. But I think they're probably getting a different class of clientele and lower footfall than the Thai and Filipina hookers guys on here are happily barebacking.

So yeah, I try to be selective, take Prep and doxy prophylactically, test frequently (can do it by post for free in the UK. Protip, tell sexual health clinics / online government services in the UK you're a gay bottom hooker, you get the red carpet haha) and just accept my level of risk.

Basically, you're using SA properly and how it's designed. I'm looking for great one off experiences with girls you just don't get in the escort scene in the UK, with that no rushed and practically no limits (these girls don't come with a list of 'nos' like the pro girls) feel.

Ethics of it are definitely up for debate.

All this back and forth got me pretty damn horny, so on the theory that a pussy in hand is worth two in the Bush as girls are flakey.

Got a date lined up for tomorrow. Tall, slim, pretty brunette. 29. It's 150 ppm but unlike the other girl, she can host so it keeps the cost down. Depends on how it goes, I might pie off the Sunday date.

For anyone contemplating looking into SBs in the UK and concerned about the hotel thing, there's a couple of websites [URL]dayrooms.com[/URL] and dayuse. Co. Uk. You can book a hotel room in the day all over the country. Nothing to pay upfront, occupy from 10 am - 5 pm, cancel by up to mid-day on the day of the booking and pay no fee (not sure how they'd collect a fee if you cancelled after / no showed as they don't have my card details. Maybe just blacklist you if you don't pay). 50% cheaper than overnight rate. My experience so far with SA is it definitely doesn't need to be the trips abroad, fine dining and expensive hotels it might first appear to be.

Even the teen stunners I've floated the idea with seem happy to PPM and straight to a hotel during the day. Whether they'd flake or not remains to be seen.

[QUOTE=JJanni;2625045]I've got maybe four categories I've mentally put the girls (that aren't / probably aren't video sellers / scammers) into;.

Escorts. Probably have an AdultWork account or if they don't, they should. They're after 200+ppm and have a list of dos and donts. Bareback is a definite no go, like it would be with most of the girls on Adultwork if you ask for it straight up, out of the blue.

Absolute skanks. They're offering it up at 100-150 ppm. Drunks, drunk addicts, fat an / or fuck ugly!

Semi-pro kinda girls. Newish to the game, maybe hurting for short term money, mid-tier attractiveness, think there's probably a difference between them and a straight up escort. Probably not aware of their 'worth' yet. Condom use outside of the P4 p world isn't as prevalent as you might think so it isn't an absolute 'no' with these girls to fuck without a condom. Generally I find they're biting at 150 ppm or 200 ppm.

Proper SBs (the ones I'm interested in anyway) - Teen, early twenties, pretty as fuck stunners with perfect bodies. Aware of how the game is played, so will take PPM if you play it right. Generally going for 200-250+ppm.

I ditch the first two categories on discovery, focus on the second;..[/QUOTE]I think you're giving Steve9696 ideas and he's going to set up his SA shop in London. You might want to claim the Midlands and Northward for yourself. LOL.

Here is the follow up full FR on Liz. Great reminder in so many ways. One. Girls from years ago will still be ready to fuck you if you treated them right. Just because it's transactional to start doesn't mean it can't blossom. Sometimes going against type can be ok or even good. So much is the girl and her attitude.

I met Liz about two years ago on SA. The first meet was quite memorable because there was some mixup on timing and we only had a very short window. So we meet at the bar and have one quick drink and I can feel the sex-time clock ticking down.

So I say "want to get out if here?" And she is a bit taken aback and says "wow you're really confident aren't you?" To which I reply "Yep. Let's go. " And off we go to the hotel next door. Damn, alcohol can be your friend those words just came out of my mouth without a thought and damn if she didn't just follow me and get it on! And here we are two years later meeting up in earnest after perhaps two or three direct to hotel meets two years ago.

So Liz is fun because she's pretty straightforward (used to be a stripper) but not my type physically (eye color, skin tone etc) but a very pretty girl. After finding nothing better I felt like I was just settling for her. But that was flat out wrong! In the end it was a whale of a time with an awesome vibe and definitely to be repeated.

We had some restaurant snafu but eventually found a place that we both enjoyed. She confessed she'the been swigging wine from her purse to loosen up a bit. And we added Sake to the mix during dinner. Pretty reasonable date and the conversation flowed easily. She ran into a friend who works as a waitress there but she took it like a champ. LOL.

We bopped back to the hotel and up to the room. Because this was not a hometown date and we already knew each other there was really no rush. So I broke out the Tito's and Sprite (her request-I always keep my girl happy in the drinks dept) and we sat cross legged on the bed and just shot the shit and drank for prob a half hour.

I tend to get bold and frisky when I drink so as she's chatting away I just start taking off her sweater. Pretty soon that is off then the rest and we are both naked standing and making out. The kissing is a bit less tongue than I prefer but that will change once I get her cranked up.

She's quite tatted up as it turns out having gotten quite a few these last two years. She now has a full sleeve which I have to say is frankly badass awesome. (I know some guys don't like tattoos but if you travel to Brasil you better learn to love them and I have). She's a bit heavier than I prefer some Covid pounds but still nice and smooth and shapely more thick than fat.

So we get the party started by me easing her down on her back at the edge of the bed with my face positioned between her legs. Damn she has a beautiful pussy not quite like any other I've see. And I've seen a few! It's like a flower with lots of petals. No big pronounced lips but lots of little waves and folds. Quite beautiful to look at and dive into.

I remember last time she didn't like fingering and we had discussed that on text. So gentleman that I am I say "I'm trying to remember what you like." and she says "whatever you want to do is fine with me!" Nice. It's on.

So I dive in for some lengthy DATY including some tentative fingering followed by the full on treatment as she warms up. After satisfying her well, I move up to kiss her and now we are full on tongue tangled macking. Just needed a warm up.

And so we head to BBBJ. I'm starting to position myself on my back and she says "don't you want me on my knees?" Wow aren't you the submissive vixen. Damn straight I do! I throw a pillow on the floor for her to kneel and she appreciates my consideration.

Wow that girl can give some head. Occupational hazard of being a stripper I suppose. Later riding cowgirl she says riding all those strip club laps honed her game. LOL. The BJ is very very good with plenty of BLS. She does something that strangely I have never had before which is at one point she will lean back letting my entire cock leave her mouth then lean forward to a deep throat then lean back again. Basically like a mouth fucking but where your cock exits and re-enters every stroke. Was pretty mind blowing.

After a bunch of this (20 minutes?) I am ready to fuck. I comment on how I luv BJ so much and don't want to stop but just get this powerful urge to fuck and she says same exact with her. So on goes the cover and I position her in my fave position. Just going to start calling this the Steve. On her back. Pussy at edge of bed. Me standing. Insert and let the magic begin. The Steve. We have her tunes on and I get a good rhythm going.

Man we fuck like this forever. I can't remember exactly what she said but it reminded me of Jade who said "You can fuck me all night if you want baby". Very similar comment and in fact I think in total I have never fucked so much in one evening as that night.

After a while we switch to Cowgirl and she is very very good. Blue ribbon baby. I feel like I might cum after a long ride but prefer to finish by mouth and ask her same. She says sure.

So I go to stand in front of the pillow I put down for her to kneel on. She gets up grabs the pillow and chucks it and says "pillows are for pussys!" And gets down bare knees on carpet to suck me off. LOL. Luv that baby. Like your dirty girl style! And it's another long BBBJ to a CIM and swallow finish. A goodly mouthful but she swallows it all.

Lots of drinking and cuddling follows. I get the full tattoo tour plus who knows what we talk about. Surely a half hour as I recover. I get pretty frisky when drinking so on returning from the bathroom I climb on the bed on all fours and go get over top of her like a dog and start kissing her. And damn she warms up quickly. Super comfy now I roll her on her back and get between her legs and say she has such a small clit and it’s quite buried in there. So we root around for a bit and find it. LOL and do some more DATY and then head for some more amazingly long fucking sessions.

Oh round two is a bit foggy but def did the Steve and doggy and more BJ and geez I dunno. Finish with an epic 10+ minute BJ really sloppy with lots of hands on balls and bam. Another CIM swallow.

After relaxing a bit she's got the munchies and is talking about getting an Uber to get some hamburgers at this amazing Late night bar and grill. I say shit I'll just drive you and we can go together and she is all over that. We've moved from transactional to super BFGF and really enjoy each other. So we have some epic late night burgers and I drive her home. A full 6 hours from start to finish. Really nice relaxed experience. Def repeat. She's a whale of a good time.

Met 29 year old leggy single mum today. She matched her pictures (and the videocall duh) so it wasn't a bait and switch. Coining a new phrase, 'getting escorted' - when an SB turns out to actually just be an escort. Some redflags I overlooked wilfully as she was the most convenient girl (close, took my first offer, could meet almost immediately, could host. Which are mostly all redflags themselves) such as wanting to communicate on Kik rather than Whatsapp. With the benefit of hindsight, it was all obvious.

I think she does her business on Seeking exclusively. I can't find a profile in the area that matches her even slightly anywhere else.

Got her place, knocked on the door. And she answered in a dressing gown with just underwear underneath and I immediately knew she was an escort. She took my initial pause as shyness. When really it was an internal debate between my brain 'this isn't what you wanted from SA' and my dick 'you're here, she's hot, why not?

Inside, sit on the couch, cup of tea, perfunctory chat about bollocks where she threw up more redflags to her escorty nature, mostly financial. After maybe 5-10 minutes, at her suggestion, 'Shall we go upstairs?' (and asked for the money. I hadn't immediately handed it over as I was still mentally debating leaving).

Handed it over and went upstairs. Typical escort start, light French kissing (did deepen properly when I succeeded in getting her worked up), blowjob, ok sex, breather, ok sex. Nothing to write home about. Got stage managed out in a way that was far too slick, parted after spending about 2. 5 hours there. I've paid more for far less time with a less attractive girl, so I'm not all cut up about the experience.

Just not what I was looking for on SA. That 'seducing' feeling of the slow escalation of a non-P4 p sexual encounter. If I'm cheeky enough to send her a post match review, I'll suggest she actually wears clothes next time, allows the guy to make the first move and start activities on the couch rather than the change of venue before we've even touched.

I've cancelled with the girl for tomorrow. I suspect it would be more of the same (though as we're meeting at a hotel, at least she'd wear clothes. Am I alone in thinking the slow undressing is a great part of the experience? Hate turning up to see an escort and having her meet me the typical lingerie, stockings and heels.).

Going to try one of the girls a level up who've agreed on a 'coffee / drink, chat and if we're comfortable, to a hotel' to see if that offers the experience I'm looking for. If that's a bust, I might actually have to try one of the girls who won't fuck on the first date.

[QUOTE=JJanni;2625367]All this back and forth got me pretty damn horny, so on the theory that a pussy in hand is worth two in the Bush as girls are flakey.

Got a date lined up for tomorrow. Tall, slim, pretty brunette. 29. It's 150 ppm but unlike the other girl, she can host so it keeps the cost down. Depends on how it goes, I might pie off the Sunday date.

For anyone contemplating looking into SBs in the UK and concerned about the hotel thing, there's a couple of websites [URL]dayrooms.com[/URL] and dayuse. Co. Uk. You can book a hotel room in the day all over the country. Nothing to pay upfront, occupy from 10 am - 5 pm, cancel by up to mid-day on the day of the booking and pay no fee (not sure how they'd collect a fee if you cancelled after / no showed as they don't have my card details. Maybe just blacklist you if you don't pay). 50% cheaper than overnight rate. My experience so far with SA is it definitely doesn't need to be the trips abroad, fine dining and expensive hotels it might first appear to be.

Even the teen stunners I've floated the idea with seem happy to PPM and straight to a hotel during the day. Whether they'd flake or not remains to be seen.[/QUOTE]Thanks for the recommendation I'm in the UK now going to use this site for my sugar dates. What is the average Ppm you're doing? I see 150 £ for the mum I guess? The averages I'm getting are 400-600 for some good ones. Is it because I'm not local and the babes feel that they can take advantage of me being a foreigner? Or is that the standard In London.

[QUOTE=JJanni;2625757]Met 29 year old leggy single mum today. She matched her pictures (and the videocall duh) so it wasn't a bait and switch. Coining a new phrase, 'getting escorted' - when an SB turns out to actually just be an escort. Some redflags I overlooked wilfully as she was the most convenient girl (close, took my first offer, could meet almost immediately, could host. Which are mostly all redflags themselves) such as wanting to communicate on Kik rather than Whatsapp. With the benefit of hindsight, it was all obvious.

I think she does her business on Seeking exclusively. I can't find a profile in the area that matches her even slightly anywhere else.

Got her place, knocked on the door. And she answered in a dressing gown with just underwear underneath and I immediately knew she was an escort. She took my initial pause as shyness. When really it was an internal debate between my brain 'this isn't what you wanted from SA' and my dick 'you're here, she's hot, why not?

Inside, sit on the couch, cup of tea, perfunctory chat about bollocks where she threw up more redflags to her escorty nature, mostly financial. After maybe 5-10 minutes, at her suggestion, 'Shall we go upstairs?' (and asked for the money. I hadn't immediately handed it over as I was still mentally debating leaving).

Handed it over and went upstairs. Typical escort start, light French kissing (did deepen properly when I succeeded in getting her worked up), blowjob, ok sex, breather, ok sex. Nothing to write home about. Got stage managed out in a way that was far too slick, parted after spending about 2. 5 hours there. I've paid more for far less time with a less attractive girl, so I'm not all cut up about the experience.

Just not what I was looking for on SA. That 'seducing' feeling of the slow escalation of a non-P4 p sexual encounter. If I'm cheeky enough to send her a post match review, I'll suggest she actually wears clothes next time, allows the guy to make the first move and start activities on the couch rather than the change of venue before we've even touched.

I've cancelled with the girl for tomorrow. I suspect it would be more of the same (though as we're meeting at a hotel, at least she'd wear clothes. Am I alone in thinking the slow undressing is a great part of the experience? Hate turning up to see an escort and having her meet me the typical lingerie, stockings and heels.).

Going to try one of the girls a level up who've agreed on a 'coffee / drink, chat and if we're comfortable, to a hotel' to see if that offers the experience I'm looking for. If that's a bust, I might actually have to try one of the girls who won't fuck on the first date.[/QUOTE]Think you are after exactly what is my sweet spot girl who wants to be treated nice and will fuck you if things go well at dinner. I've even had three that balked at the room but managed to fuck two out of three. LOL. (And 28 that went to room smoothly). And yeah agree. Want to undress slowly. A little seduction it's all part of it.

I'the suggest you go to a nice dinner. You drink a lot. You laugh a lot. Next you know she's your girlfriend for the night. Try to go to hotel that night while you have momentum. Don't let it sag over to a second date.

For these girls you can't talk sex and cip and all that. You going to treat them like a date during the SA pickup. Same as you would a girl in a bar. And you will find the right type.

Still congrats on ur first closure. Two rounds and 2.5 hours beats an hourly girl. Even if it felt a bit escortish. There are worse things. But U can def find the right girl if u take the right approach.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2625777]Think you are after exactly what is my sweet spot girl who wants to be treated nice and will fuck you if things go well at dinner. I've even had three that balked at the room but managed to fuck two out of three. LOL. (And 28 that went to room smoothly). And yeah agree. Want to undress slowly. A little seduction it's all part of it.

I'the suggest you go to a nice dinner. You drink a lot. You laugh a lot. Next you know she's your girlfriend for the night. Try to go to hotel that night while you have momentum. Don't let it sag over to a second date.

For these girls you can't talk sex and cip and all that. You going to treat them like a date during the SA pickup. Same as you would a girl in a bar. And you will find the right type.[/QUOTE]I think you may be right. In fact I'm almost certain you are. I am chatting to some girls like that. The 18/19/20 year old stunners you need to go softly-softly with and would run a mile at explicit sex talk early on. Sorting out the logistics of meeting with a couple of very gorgeous girls. And actually, one 28 year old single mum who I've been having great banter and conversations with, who keeps surprising me with very tastefully sexy pics at just the right moment. Not as pretty or nubile as the ideal, but her personality and ability to turn me on bumps her way up.

HOWEVER. I do have a couple of girls I'm very interested in who are agreeing to BBFSCIP if things go well over a coffee, who are almost as attractive as the Tier 1 girls. If they don't suddenly turn into content sellers or deposit / transport scammers (which I think is highly likely) or complete flakes (highly likely), I'd like to explore it.

I think more than likely I'll end up chasing your sweet spot and have to expend some time, effort and money without guaranteed results.

Straw poll. Does anyone believe a beautiful, doe-eyed brunette 5'2 95 lbs 19 year old with a drum-taut body is a virgin? Literally, the girl we all dream of getting into bed. The girl who would have been amongst the hottest girls at your school / college uni.

I don't. And I'm so not after a virgin.

Recently I have come across (no pun intended) a couple ladies with smelly butt odor, and also smelly pussy odor, especially when performing doggie position sex. Other than cutting them loose, is there a good way to get corrective action and get this cleaned up? I do not want to be rude, but some of these women need to bathe. Showering does not cleanse the butt hole or the pussy hole from the smell. Should I tell them that and risk a confrontation? They may say, well your penis smells too. Urine smell or urine drip and she does not want to perform felatio.

Seeing a girl next week. 28 year old single mother, a little plain but has bumped herself way up with the quality of our banter together and the tastefully sexy pictures she's sent at just the right moment in conversations.

Simple coffee & a walk date. Definitely no hint of it being more than a 'meet and greet' due to timings and circumstances surrounding childcare. If nothing else, it'll be a good chance to get some experience in chatting up an SA girl.

Kinda' like the girl and she's right on my doorstep, so a convenient prospect. Would my fellow Brit SD's contribute something towards said childcare (babysitter) in this scenario? And what's the classy way to go about it?

No financials have been discussed.

[QUOTE=JJanni;2625798]Straw poll. Does anyone believe a beautiful, doe-eyed brunette 5'2 95 lbs 19 year old with a drum-taut body is a virgin? Literally, the girl we all dream of getting into bed. The girl who would have been amongst the hottest girls at your school / college uni.

I don't. And I'm so not after a virgin.[/QUOTE]I have been with two virgins. Sexually speaking, it was way below average. Emotionally with one, it was okay. The other felt guilty and later implied she was forced even though I wanted to stop because I could not get in, and she said to keep trying.

So with your virgin question, my answer is, I guess it is possible but if were my gal, I would hope not.

Have you guys ever been in the situation where you are just about to get laid, but then the gal says that she suddenly got her period? Happened to me twice recently. When this happens, do you guys think we are being played?

A few weeks ago, I invited an ex-SB to go on a business trip with me. As she is arriving on the train, she tells me that her period suddenly started. I was stuck with her for three nights.

Yesterday, I was meeting someone that I have had relations with in the past. When we first hooked up, she would not kiss, and I put up with this for a while, but then stopped seeing her. She asked why I stopped seeing her and I told her that I like DFK, and so she agreed to do it. After seeing her some more, I asked her if we could bareback, and she said no. So again, I stopped seeing her, but then she suddenly contacts me and wants to see me. I thought it meant that we were going to bareback for the first time, so I agreed to meet her yesterday, but during her shower, she says oh no my period came.

I think in both cases that I got played. Periods do not suddenly come. Girls have a ball park idea of their period calendar, and they also start to get moody and experience discomfort at least a couple of days before their period comes.

Anyways, just wanted to come on here to vent.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2626334]Have you guys ever been in the situation where you are just about to get laid, but then the gal says that she suddenly got her period? Happened to me twice recently. When this happens, do you guys think we are being played?

A few weeks ago, I invited an ex-SB to go on a business trip with me. As she is arriving on the train, she tells me that her period suddenly started. I was stuck with her for three nights.

Yesterday, I was meeting someone that I have had relations with in the past. When we first hooked up, she would not kiss, and I put up with this for a while, but then stopped seeing her. She asked why I stopped seeing her and I told her that I like DFK, and so she agreed to do it. After seeing her some more, I asked her if we could bareback, and she said no. So again, I stopped seeing her, but then she suddenly contacts me and wants to see me. I thought it meant that we were going to bareback for the first time, so I agreed to meet her yesterday, but during her shower, she says oh no my period came.

I think in both cases that I got played. Periods do not suddenly come. Girls have a ball park idea of their period calendar, and they also start to get moody and experience discomfort at least a couple of days before their period comes..[/QUOTE]Yes, this happens to me all the time in MTY, it totally sucks. Each girl handle how they handle there periods differently. This is why it important to always have a back up plan.

I love your post and feedback.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2626334]Have you guys ever been in the situation where you are just about to get laid, but then the gal says that she suddenly got her period? Happened to me twice recently. When this happens, do you guys think we are being played?

A few weeks ago, I invited an ex-SB to go on a business trip with me. As she is arriving on the train, she tells me that her period suddenly started. I was stuck with her for three nights.

Yesterday, I was meeting someone that I have had relations with in the past. When we first hooked up, she would not kiss, and I put up with this for a while, but then stopped seeing her. She asked why I stopped seeing her and I told her that I like DFK, and so she agreed to do it. After seeing her some more, I asked her if we could bareback, and she said no. So again, I stopped seeing her, but then she suddenly contacts me and wants to see me. I thought it meant that we were going to bareback for the first time, so I agreed to meet her yesterday, but during her shower, she says oh no my period came.

I think in both cases that I got played. Periods do not suddenly come. Girls have a ball park idea of their period calendar, and they also start to get moody and experience discomfort at least a couple of days before their period comes..[/QUOTE]Yes, you got played. OTOH nothing is as bad as a disinterested gal just being passive and not engaging you. Men are always at a disadvantage. Most of the time it doesn't pay to be cheap. The most expensive session is a cheap session.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2626334]Have you guys ever been in the situation where you are just about to get laid, but then the gal says that she suddenly got her period? Happened to me twice recently. When this happens, do you guys think we are being played?.[/QUOTE]Yes, I had a woman who went into my hotel room bathroom and then came out an announced that her period just started and she could not have sex.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2626341]Yes, this happens to me all the time in MTY, it totally sucks. Each girl handle how they handle there periods differently. This is why it important to always have a back up plan.

I love your post and feedback.[/QUOTE]Going to disagree a bit. I used to worry this same thing when it's come up occasionally but I had a friend point out it's prob genuine if a girl is otherwise into you. I mean think about it. If a girl has a three day period chances are 10% your going to hit it. Pretty good odds to miss if you see her one time. But what if she's a four day girl? Unless you are tracking carefully, see her seven times and you are bound to hit it.

Last two times I thought this it was false alarm. One because I could see the string poking out. Maybe she went that far but really? I don't think she dreads sex with me that much. And the next was Kayla. Went to pic up tampons and I thought oh no. But she was on tail end and took it out and let me CIP.

I don't think a girl is going to train ride and then bail on you with chance of being sent home or put on BJ for an hour. Could be wrong. Although I will say since you fuck for hours on end maybe girls do tire of it. All the reason to get a new girl.

I have been mongering so much this year, fucking about 1-3 times per week on average. My work is suffering big time. I even lost a work gig, and when I reflect on it, it is probably because I spent too much time mongering rather than working. I also have almost no friends now. I used to get invited out for drinks or dinner quite a lot, but whenever I have free time, I use it to monger, and now no one invites me to hang out now.

I am thinking about cutting back on my mongering. In fact, I did not fuck anyone yesterday and today, and I do not plan on fucking anyone for the rest of this week, and maybe for the rest of this month, so that I can catch up on my work.

How about you guys? You guys doing a good job balancing your monger life, work life, and personal life?

I guess my problem is that I treat mongering as my main priority, and I schedule everything else around it.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2626911]I have been mongering so much this year, fucking about 1-3 times per week on average. My work is suffering big time. I even lost a work gig, and when I reflect on it, it is probably because I spent too much time mongering rather than working. I also have almost no friends now. I used to get invited out for drinks or dinner quite a lot, but whenever I have free time, I use it to monger, and now no one invites me to hang out now.

I am thinking about cutting back on my mongering. In fact, I did not fuck anyone yesterday and today, and I do not plan on fucking anyone for the rest of this week, and maybe for the rest of this month, so that I can catch up on my work.

How about you guys? You guys doing a good job balancing your monger life, work life, and personal life?

I guess my problem is that I treat mongering as my main priority, and I schedule everything else around it.[/QUOTE]Normally I advise to make time for your girls life. For me it's the favorite part of my life at this point so I try to prioritize it. But in your case I'the say yes you have gone too far. I thought I was a bit of a horndog but can't imagine trying to work in 1-3 times a week (ok maybe 1 per week). In fact I saw Liz recently and will see Kayla soon. Uma was pinging me wanting to meet and I just told her I couldn't. I would have had to possibly impact work or make another excuse which would have been awkward. So I had to push her out. I am glad I did because my stress level immediately went to zero.

The good news is what one poster once said holds true. "Less sex less sex. More sex more sex". What he meant was when you are having more sex you are always wanting it. And when you have less it seems less important. I've def found this to be true. I'the suggest trying to cut back to weekly (biweekly seems a stretch) and really try to stick to it. I think the most important benefit will not only be work and home life but your stress level. I think you will be surprised how much that makes a difference.

And surprisingly I think you will adjust to the new schedule and even look forward more to your dates which can be a joy in itself.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2626334]Have you guys ever been in the situation where you are just about to get laid, but then the gal says that she suddenly got her period? Happened to me twice recently. When this happens, do you guys think we are being played?
Anyways, just wanted to come on here to vent.[/QUOTE]Depending on the girl, I would often just say so what and go ahead and play. She would get a towel and put it on the bed, and I would wear a condom. As long as you do not mind the site of blood, IMO it is not that big of a deal.

Other thing is that it really is not that big of a deal at day 4 or 5 usually. Thankfully, my gal has an implant and has no periods now.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2626911]I have been mongering so much this year, fucking about 1-3 times per week on average. My work is suffering big time. I even lost a work gig, and when I reflect on it, it is probably because I spent too much time mongering rather than working. I also have almost no friends now. I used to get invited out for drinks or dinner quite a lot, but whenever I have free time, I use it to monger, and now no one invites me to hang out now.

How about you guys? You guys doing a good job balancing your monger life, work life, and personal life?

I guess my problem is that I treat mongering as my main priority, and I schedule everything else around it.[/QUOTE]Honestly, MW, I was just thinking about it the other day. After I got divorced, I shifted from keeping my mongering life separate to telling people about it. For the most part, everyone was cool about it, and it was a relief to have to keep hiding. For the most part, the people in my life just wanted me to be happy.

However, I thought about a few of the women I brought with me and how ill equipped they were to deal with my friends and family and how awkward it was. The invitations trailed off, and my free time was spent mostly with my women. They all were not bad but enough of them were that the invitations started to drop off. Of course, I have been the kind who goes to parties versus staging my own.

But I will say that the time I spend with my women, especially when I went abroad, was more fun than anything I did with my friends. After my 3 some and 4 some adventures, one of my male friends said that he knew our get together with three of my oldest friends would be a letdown. I had a good time, but those adventures and having a whole month to travel the world and monger would probably rank as the second most fun month of my life.

I am not sure what you need in your life. What I realized is that it was not so much sex as fun. Again, sex can be fun but how many times is it, and how many times is it expensive and the woman is a pain in the butt? And when you are fucking too much, it can get old and is hardly any fun at all.

Even though I am with one gal, we have fun, and the sex is still amazing but the pride of conquest and the new is gone which does diminish things sexually I have to admit.

The other day though Nancy texted me, and I know she was looking for money. Even though she is great in bed, I would love to fly her and I down and see Flo in Cancun. Yes, the sex with them was great, but it was the fun that mattered the most. With Flo living down there, she probably knows more great places than ever.

I just wonder if that is what is going on with you. I was sure it was a sex deficit in my life when I strayed when married but it was a fun deficit. My ex was such a buzz kill. If you are really having fun in your monger life or your personal life, I think that is what matters. I just cannot get the concept of working hard and not playing hard too.

I'm either at work, or I'm mongering. So there's my work life balance. I can't afford to 'monger' as much as I'd like in the UK unfortunately. There is something to be said for less = more. Coming towards the end of this sex-filled leave period, it isn't as. Exciting as it was at the start. I've probably done what. 50-60 different girls (with lots of repeats) in three different countries since July. I'm enjoying the sex much more in the 'wow this gorgeous girl is letting me do this' than the 'eyes rolling into the back of my head' physical enjoyment at the start.

That being said.

Met an SA girl today. I'd set a date to meet her last week and got cold feet, actually blocked her on SA and deleted our chat on Whatsapp, so lost all the chat history. Pertinent details I recalled were 200 ppm and she was a little cagey on the condom issue ('We'll see. ') Profile was a little sparse, pictures weren't that great and videochat was hurried and hushed in a dark room. Figured I was getting set up for a scam. (Wait till I get to the meet location and am invested, ask to send taxi money, no show, try and sell videos etc). Had more or less forgotten about it until an hour before, when I got a message from her confirming. I was close by, so drove to the city. I've got lots of prospects there, so decided to grab a dayroom and if she no showed, try and get another girl or gasp. An escort.

Communication was good. Five minutes before she was due to arrive, I went down to the second lobby to collect her. Pretty good location in that the place has two entrances on two street levels. One with a reception, one without. Keycard needed to use the lifts. Can book on dayuse rooms with no ID or card details, nothing to pay up front. And signing in at reception, no ID and cash payment accepted. Pretty much a perfect ST hotel I stumbled on.

Anyway, I'm sat in the second lobby and an absolutely tiny, tight (4'10 and 90 lbs') blondie late teens / early twenties spinner walks past me to the lift. Pretty, a few blemishes though. But still very much a teen dream. I almost call out to her but I genuinely figure there's no way in hell I've been that lucky and having blocked her irreversably on SA and deleted her chat on whatsapp, I can't actually remember her name, so what the hell would I call out, "Hey, are you the girl who's going to fuck me?" So I message her instead. "I'm in the lobby. Where are you?" Blondie Spinner's phone bings. YES.

Her profile claims 19, student, height was wrong. If she isn't 19, she fooled me. I was expecting a girl of 5'4 from her profile. But as I've said before, surprise spinner is a winner! Awkward chat in the lift on the way up, just the usual bullshit.

In the room, she's straight away to stripping off. She turned up fresh, but wearing the typical student lounging around attire of sweatpants, tanktop, big hoody. I'm kind of into it, so I stop her. Snog by the bed for a while, before she asks me to sit down as she's on her tippy toes to reach me! More snogging, getting my hands all over that tight little body. Spin her around, push her down over the bed and skim her sweatpants and tiny little pink thong down. (She later revealed she has to shop in the kid's section) She's got a few tattoos on her legs, but I'm into it.

Pretty, perfect and smooth little pussy and asshole. Seems rude not to so I spend a little time rimming her and fingering her from behind. Throw her down on the bed, get the rest of her clothes off. She isn't shy about kissing me after rimming her, good girl. Kissing, teasing, exploring each other's body. Go down on her and spend an age licking that tiny, tight pussy. Moans start off rather early and fake. But I persevere and she gets much, much wetter, I can feel her clenching inside, feel her stomach muscles flexing and the moans are believable. There's no explosive moment, but when my tongue gets tired and I come up for air and ask 'How close were you?' she swears blind she came twice and says in that sexy Northern accent of hers 'you'se a dream at that. '.

Lie next to her, kissing a little while she plays with my dick. Eventually, she clambers over me and is giving me a handjob while rubbing the head of my dick on her pussy. No mention of condom and clearly it's going to be bareback at this point. Eventually, she settles down on it and I'm heaven. Take advantage of spinner status and throw her around into various positions before ending up back in cowgirl while she rides me and herself to a very convincing orgasm. Top five moments in mongering, cumming inside her. After a while, she slides off and doesn't make the classic rush to the bathroom.

Lie chatting for a while, kissing, idly playing with eachother. Poor maid is definitely not going to enjoy changing that bed. I'm playing with spinner's pussy, coaxing my jizz back out of her. We're chatting idly about SA experiences. It's quite superficial and I'm trying to discover. And still trying to discover. Why, when she's a quality of girl that, with a few decent pics on her SA profile, would be having guys willing to pay her to go on dinner dates with no guarantee of sex, she agreed to meet me, a guy clear on his intention to fuck straight away and not keen on using a condom? Maybe she was horny? Maybe she's not that bright? No idea still. But there's a saying about gift horse's and mouths. She did say at one point, "I don't know about youse, but I fuckin' love sex me. ".

Eventually, I'm getting hard again, so she goes down on me with no prompting. Beautiful, slurpy, long blowjob. Spin her around so I can feast on her asshole again and finger her pussy. After a while, I push her down and into position for reverse cowgirl. No messing about with positions again, just reverse cowgirl (she's that tiny, smallest girl I've ever been with), I can basically use her as a human fleshlight, lifting her up and down on my dick. Again, another very convincing orgasm from both of us!

Collapse next to me, more chatter and cuddling, playing. While she's gabbing away, I move her into hands and knees position to rim her (I want to remember that asshole for the rest of my life), periodically breaking off to answer or ask a question, I'm hard again, so I slip it into her pussy. Despite my and her best attempts in vigorous doggy and legs up missionary, a third pop isn't forthcoming. But as I tell her and believe. Sex is still fun, even if you don't finish. Eventually collapse into a cuddle, more superficial chat. She's showing no signs of wanting to leave. Eventually, I'm the one to say I've got stuff to do and am grabbing a shower. She does after, a kiss at the door, vague promises of meeting again and she's off after spending about three hours with me. Message her something nice after, get a lovely message back.

Take a quick nap on the non-wet spot side of the bed, give my keycard back to the receptionist who is grinning in such a way that says 'I know exactly what you were up to' and head home.

At the moment, thoroughly satiated, my interest is being piqued only by pussy pastures anew. I've got a coffee date with the girl I've got great banter with and who has a certain 'I don't know what' sexiness about her, lots of other girls keen to meet (one curvy 'proper curvy, not fat but puts curvy' 23 year old who's into anal and is that keen / desperate to meet, she's dropped her asking price 100).

But that'll change by next week. Going to try and abstain (other than the not ending in sex coffee date) for the sake of enjoying it more and my bank balance, but I can pretty much guarantee I'll be trying to see blondie spinner again.

Though on the 'why me' front. Out of curiosity yesterday, I made a blank female account on SA to see what the 'competition' was up to in a 50 mile radius. Other than a couple of very obviously very, very wealthy guys (helictopers, supercars and yacht types) with well put together profiles that all the girls would be competing for, the rest of the profiles were barely literate with a single picture (think overweight, unkempt thinning hair or bald but not shaved, scruffy neckbeard, ratty old fleece with crumbs on it) that wouldn't look out of place under a headline of 'Local nonce jailed for fifteen years. '.

So maybe that answers the question of why me.

Dude so your first SA experience is bareback with a hot spinner! Nice way to get your SA groove on!

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2627147]Dude so your first SA experience is bareback with a hot spinner! Nice way to get your SA groove on![/QUOTE]Second girl I've met from SA, first that I'd call an actual 'SA' experience.

I think what gave it that intangible 'SA' quality I was looking for was; she was a little nervous at first, she was actually wearing clothes (escorts in the UK hate wearing clothes, see enough, you get sick of the sight of a girl in cheap lingerie answering the door. Much more fun to slowly get her clothes off), the being in control of the progression of events (the other girl was an experienced escort who stage managed everything very slickly). And the indefinite time limit.

Don't get me wrong. She wasn't a nubile, elegant and intelligent student you'd see yourself wine and dining to get into her knickers. Think 'trashy hot' chav teen you'd bend over in a nightclub toilet and you'll get the vibe.

But I am totally into that vibe.

Thanks Janni, in addition to the FR on your adventures, for a new word. Uniquely British no doubt like "bespoke" or "bollocks". Had to lookup "chav". Great word tho very funny that we needed a word for that! Enjoy those chavs buddy!

I love Janni's recent coining of the phrase "he got escorted" meaning a WG posing as an SA girl. As he delves into the London scene I thought this FR from early 2020 right before Covid might be a fun read. This is surely the only time I've met a girl at my room and she wasn't an escort. Just wanting to be discrete. LOL. Anyhow a ton of fun in good old London. Enjoy!

London Calling. Chrystal Birthday Surprise.

So even though the pro scene in London is wonderful (see the London chapter for the rest of those adventures), the SA scene seems very solid and I hit a home run recently.

As previously described, I look for girls that have less experience on the site and are more about the experience than high $$. This way you get a "real girl" not a pro. I guess I started working London two weeks back and had some quality engagement. I had probably 6-8 girls who engaged on WhatsApp, which are very strong numbers.

I was taking a very aggressive opening like "I'm going dancing in Soho on Wednesday want to join me?" And the hook rate was much higher than normal. I know from Nanpa, that girls want a strong lead, but also maybe they are tired of endless SA chat and ready to rumble. In any case, I'the say I moved Suspects to Prospects at about 70-80% success rate, which is super high. So I might try this more in the future.

Had several girls signed up but eventually had to put them off when a late-comer I'the written off, suddenly appeared. Wow! Super pretty Viet. And a really nice balanced chat. Each was prepared to walk away at various points and, as we discussed later, this confidence was alluring in both directions. We agreed a couple days in advance to meet up and I kept her warm with texts in the meantime.

It was quite an unusual meetup because she wanted to come straight to my room. But just for talk and wine and then see where it goes. This was odd because she's clearly not an escort even more clear now but she didn't want to be seen in public with a stranger. (Ok legit but unusual and pretty ballsy).

Stranger yet, she is 22 years old, but she turns 23 today -- yes today is her birthday and she chose to spend it in my hotel room! Now, it might seem strange for a 22 year old to spend their birthday with an older man in his hotel room. But I did the exact same thing with Thiffany a year earlier. What are the odds that I would get to spend a 23rd birthday with not one, but two hotties in London? Mind boggling.

So she shows at my door and she is drop dead fucking gorgeous. Her pictures do not do her justice. Skin-tight leather pants, spike heeled boots and a face that melts me. OMFG. So we sit on the edge of the bed (it's a tiny London room) and have some wine and just chat. She is super chatty and has a strong Liverpool accent! It is soooo strange to see it coming out of her Viet mouth! She is adopted so no trace of Asian accent.

Fuck if we didn't kill a whole bottle of Rose and TWO HOURS just chatting. It completely flew by! Obviously she's a chatty girl but I could just look at her face for hours. So I did!

So with that amount of chat, this is going to be one slow buildup still not sure if she is DTF (down to fuck), despite being in my room; but I am enjoying every second. Throughout chatting, I am doing light touch escalation, which comes naturally to me. But there is no obvious break where a kiss makes sense. Fortunately, fate intervenes, in the form of her mother. LOL.

As we are chatting amiably, she gets "the birthday call" from her mom and she takes it without missing a beat. So here I am sitting next to this soon-to-be 23 year old on my bed, hopefully about to fuck, as she chats with her mom two feet away. You CANNOT make this shit up.

Well this turns out to be the perfect opportunity to escalate, which I do without even thinking about it. So being a bit bored as she chats on and on, I start unzipping and taking off one of her leather boots. She offers the other foot as she chats away and I take off the other boot, putting both aside.

As she wraps the call with her mom, she excuses herself to the bathroom. When she comes back, I've moved cross-legged further up the bed and she joins me likewise. And at some point I transition it to laying down side by side, me on my back and her on her front.

We continue to chat, but the mechanics of our position-change now leave only about six inches between our faces. At some point I am inspired and close the gap and kiss her. Pretty light exploratory stuff. She continues chatting on after I break. (did I mention she's chatty?) But at some point SHE'S inspired and leans in and kisses me! Well now I engage and open her mouth for full-on tongue mackin engagement which gets the party started.

I work her onto her back and start grinding on top of her while making out. I love this dominance and it seems to get girls equally worked up. She's got on a halter top with a bra under. Again going very slow, I start massaging her tits through the halter and then work my way down licking and biting her naked midriff and even exploring a bit below her waistband with my tongue. This must be the ticket, because she sits up and pulls off her bra and top.

So I work her fabulous firm be cups quite a bit. She likes squeezing and circles and nipple sucking. I again start on her tummy still not knowing if she is DTF or we are just going to play around on this first date. And I reach up to her waistband and start pulling down her tight leather pants. Well her panties come with, but she pulls her panties back up! I am not sure what to make of this; but I am undeterred and will work around this obstacle!

I start by just lick-sucking in that magical little hollow juncture of thigh and body to the left and right of her panties and she starts to grind. Still unsure if I am going to get a "halt" from her, I slide the panties gently to the side and start softly working her clit. OK now I have her going.

She starts to coo and moan and eventually builds to a substantial O. But I am not done and neither is she, as she quickly starts another build. I tentatively slip a finger inside she's super tight but sopping wet. And some clit and gspot work is on. She is a hot wet mess and feels awesome and man does she love the combo tongue and finger work. She is a complete goner. She has at least 2 more Os. And these are not fake escort Os. This is the real deal with a real girl and this makes SA completely awesome!!

Honestly, I would be satisfied to stop right here. I absolutely love to take a sorta shy real girl and get her worked into some crashing Os. Very much like SA virgin Megan in NYC. It's tough work but someone's got to do it!

So we cuddle side by side a bit as she recovers and she says "So should I suck you now?" God I love these fresh new girls. And the answer is absolutely, baby. So we get my boxers off and down she goes. She's quite good on mouth on shaft, but like many SAs I meet, needs some direction to do more licking and ball sucking. To her credit she dives right in and does a quite epic job.

After a good bit of that (I don't blow my stack because I was with Diva escort, Mermaid, just a few hours before) she comes up for air and we are side by side. Again, believe it or not, I am still questioning if she is DTF or we are going to stop short here. She asks me what I'm thinking and I say I'm thinking I want to do more other stuff (don't know why I am quite so circumspect LOL) and she says you mean have sex? And I say absolutely! So we suit up. Yay!

A lot of girls like to start on top to control first penetration. I'm a pretty thick guy and she is super tight so this would be a good idea. But instead she rolls on her back and we start in mish. I definitely have to go slow and less than full engagement till we get the fit going and then it's slippery slide time! Wow.

We do some great mish and cowgirl fuck she's a fine sight riding high! Doggie with me standing at the edge of the bed. Pretty much everything. I show her the Andy pillow under the butt position and we get her legs up on my shoulders, me on my knees, and wow fuck she likes that. She goes through two more crashing Os. Honestly I think she would fuck forever, but I'm getting pretty tired!

Even though she feels great, the condom isn't going to get it done and we go back to BBBJ which feels heavenly. Nonetheless I prove perilously hard to finish. She soldiers on, which I LOVE and we finish me hand-on-shaft and her on BLS. She's not afraid to dive quite a ways down there and it feels wonderful. Eventually I shoot a hard shot on my stomach. Wow!

So we pillow talk some more what a great girl. And at some point she asks the time she knows I have a dinner thing (actually I'm seeing Hanna. What a horn dog! I say it's coming up 7 and she is like OMG I thought it was like 5 pm! Seriously. She has been so taken with the whirlwind of our adventure that time has flown by and that makes me feel like a million bucks.

Indeed we continue chatting in a naked cuddle for another half hour, spending 4. 5 hours together in the room! And really she only leaves because she knows I have to go. We wrap it up with a parting kiss and agree we MUST spend time together when I am back in London and likely even hit the town a bit now that I'm not a stranger! Wow what a girl!

This brings me to the other great thing about SA. It's a relationship if you are lucky. Yes NSA, but a relationship nonetheless and it continues past the sex. So the following week we chat a little here and there on WhatsApp -- you know, the sexy flirt chat stuff -- and I float the idea of a weekend in Zurich and she is totally down for it. We are literally planning the weekend and the flights. Had Covid not intervened, it might have been the best weekend of my life. Instead, I will have to have that with Alexa in Miami a few months later.

We continue to this day to stay in light touch on WhatsApp. Shes always in an evening dress with champagne nearby. Shes involved in the London fashion scene somehow. Still feel like the luckiest guy in the world to have bedded this goddess and I hope to see her in London or make that Zurich trip some time.

Loved that 'flashback' Steve. Definitely an SA experience I'd love to have. I intend to add SA to my mongering repetoire when I'm in a country where using it 'properly' is a little more within my budget.

Not in London though, so my experiences of SA may be different from my Southern brethren. I'm ideally placed between Liverpool, Manchester and Birmingham. Can get to all three within about an hour. Cities with lots of poor areas and students. So, kind of perfect for me.

I've got two girls I'm currently interested in (well, three technically.) A lapdancer who is offering an oily, full naked lapdance as part of the arrangement. And a profile with two girls (been on there a few months, I think the scammers / sellers get picked up quickly) who are offering a bisexual BBFSCIP threesome.

My kind of trashy girls but certain they're all escorts. To be honest, the way I'm using SA isn't really practical for most unless you've got all the time in the world like I have to deal with the flakes, fake profiles, video sellers etc.

So, just about to ban myself from SA for a while with my plans for this week sorted (shit is addictive, spending all day getting girls chatting you up.) I get a message from a nearby girl, again, not great pictures. Just blurry, don't show much. Profile claims 19 and 5'0. Take the conversation to Whatsapp. Get sent some pictures and videos. Black hair, sultry brown eyes, olive skin. Tight as a drum all over. She looks Bulgarian / Romanian. Literally stunning. Confirmed with a quick videocall she's actually the girl in the pictures and is English.

She's less than an hour away. I have a meet set with her on Wednesday, at a cheap hotel (her suggestion.) £100 for a 'couple of hours' and BBFSCIP. She's too lovely, it's too cheap and it was too easy.

It's definitely my project for the week, my 'punt' (in both senses of the word.) I'm 90% sure I'll get a flake, transport scam, whatever.

But maybe. Just maybe, lightning will strike twice!

So on the transactional end of the spectrum Janni got "escorted" and on the far end I got "girlfriended" one night. And I don't mean in the good sense. Overall Kayla and I had a spectacular few days and great period sex (never done a lot of that not as messy as I expected). And honestly for being on her period she was pretty fun. But one night she was pretty bitchy. Dinner went great but after that we got lost for a long time and lost our buzzes and things just kinda sucked the rest of the night. You could tell she was in a bad mood and little I could do about it.

We ended up packing it in without even having sex! What? Yeah I could just tell it wouldn't be good given her mood. She apologized the next morning and we had some great sober brunch sex. But it made me think about the two ends of spectrum here. No I am not being escorted but I am at the far end of the spectrum now with Kayla where not every day is a good day and I have to play a bit of supportive boyfriend. I got girlfriended! LOL.

Totally worth it but there is a certain appeal to those one and two night stands where you avoid getting too familiar or comfortable.

Ps I had previously declared her body a ten and I am sticking with it. Shes never satisfied and has been toning her abs further. Omg her body is just perfect. I am not a huge fan of cowgirl but it is absolutely breathtaking to watch her ride.

I just got back from Cartagena and I tried out SA for the first time in that city. Sure the P4 P is more prominent there, but having used SA for the better part of a year it is my preferred way to meet girls who provide a satisfying GFE. I've tried straightforward P4P and these encounters are not as satisfying and rarely ever get me in the mood. One amazing session per day that hits all my emotional triggers beats out several sessions with clock-watchers for me. I'm impressed some of you guys have multiple sessions in a day, even with the best sugar babies I can only have two sessions. Mongering in the US is not an option since I have a lot to lose so all my adventures are in locations where the scene is legal. Since I can only make about 3 week-long trips a year, I do my best to reconnect with past contacts when I make a return.

For my Cartagena excursion I used my typical campaign by messaging three weeks preceding the trip to screen for good company and ultimately connected with two amazing girls in their early 20's who agreed to stay with me 2 days each for less than $100 a day. Essentially the time was ecstasy since we dined, toured the city, and had amazing BBFS whenever we made it back to the hotel room. They still text me and want me to return, but schedule wise it is not feasible for at least another 6 months. I had somewhat similar luck in Tijuana, but not to the same GFE or attentiveness as in Cartagena so I extrapolate different cities offer different SA experiences.

Although Tijuana is more practical for my tight schedule, I will make sure to save Colombia for longer vacations since the experience was so life affirming. Do you veterans have any suggestions about other destinations that could replicate my time in Cartagena? I would love to find girls who I can wife up for a couple days and have the time of my life. Been trying to do this in Mexico but it seems only a few of the girls I've met do overnights. I have been contemplating trying this out in Medellin, Bogota, Lima, or Guadalajara to start. Focus is in Latin America since I can speak above average Spanish and I like the attractions there. Since I only make 3 trips a year I try to keep the budget at $4-5 k for all trip expenses so I assume money will not be a barrier for any suggested destinations.

Steve, you made a comment a couple of weeks ago that really hit home for me. You said something like you don't like to fly too close to the flame because it can be depressing to get close to their real lives. Maybe you are getting too close with Kayla?

I recently saw an ex SB from a couple of years ago. Today, we met for sex and lunch. The sex was great, but a part of me was not into it, and that's because I know her life very well, and it is mostly a sad and tough life. So even though she was in a good mood, I was sad when I was with her.

It goes the other way around too. I used to have a great SB GF that lasted for almost 10 years. But for some stupid reason, I recently started to tell her about my life, especially some difficult aspects to it. And now, she knows me very well. And so, the last time that I saw her, the sex was not amazing nor magical. It was much better when we just treated each other like fuck toys and objects.

Knowing that there's a real person underneath their flesh somehow kills the thrill for me. I thought by knowing each other, it would make the sex more magical and more loving, but man, I was totally wrong.

And it is not just about sex gettting stale with the same person. I now realize that if I barely know the person, then I can fuck her for years. But once I get to know them, I lose interest fast.

Man, I am being so philosophical today, LOL.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2629108]Overall Kayla and I had a spectacular few days and great period sex (never done a lot of that not as messy as I expected). And honestly for being on her period she was pretty fun. But one night she was pretty bitchy. Dinner went great but after that we got lost for a long time and lost our buzzes and things just kinda sucked the rest of the night. You could tell she was in a bad mood and little I could do about it.

We ended up packing it in without even having sex! What? Yeah I could just tell it wouldn't be good given her mood. She apologized the next morning and we had some great sober brunch sex. But it made me think about the two ends of spectrum here. No I am not being escorted but I am at the far end of the spectrum now with Kayla where not every day is a good day and I have to play a bit of supportive boyfriend. I got girlfriended! LOL.

Totally worth it but there is a certain appeal to those one and two night stands where you avoid getting too familiar or comfortable.[/QUOTE]

Good day Gentlemen, do any of you have a subscription promo code? They usually run a black Friday deal and I haven't seen it yet (although they seem to distribute it selectively). Happy to pass one along if it hits my own inbox. Much obliged. CR.

[QUOTE=CarloRogue;2629962]Good day Gentlemen, do any of you have a subscription promo code? They usually run a black Friday deal and I haven't seen it yet (although they seem to distribute it selectively). Happy to pass one along if it hits my own inbox. Much obliged. CR.[/QUOTE]Cannot verify if if it is correct.

[URL]https://www.ultimatecoupons.com/coupons/seeking_arrangement_coupons.htm?coupon=1844029[/URL]

[QUOTE=KingOfPoverty;2629160]Do you veterans have any suggestions about other destinations that could replicate my time in Cartagena? I would love to find girls who I can wife up for a couple days and have the time of my life. Been trying to do this in Mexico but it seems only a few of the girls I've met do overnights. I have been contemplating trying this out in Medellin, Bogota, Lima, or Guadalajara to start. Focus is in Latin America since I can speak above average Spanish and I like the attractions there. Since I only make 3 trips a year I try to keep the budget at $4-5 k for all trip expenses so I assume money will not be a barrier for any suggested destinations.[/QUOTE]So Lima is double the cost of just about everything in Colombia and Mexico. When you get to Lima in the winter (our summer), everyone there is sick of the cold and grey. If you advertised a trip to the beach in Mancora (you fly to Piura and then rent a car), you would have a lot of takers. Thing is that you would probably want to spend a few days interviewing your best candidates in Lima. The major plus is I loved the Mancora region. It is not really a place to swim but the beach there is just pure beauty, some of the best sunsets I have ever seen. Lima is a cool place, but any more than one week there would be pushing it. If you go, make sure you swim with the seals.

I had no luck with SA in Guadalajara. What is interesting there though is Puerto Vallarta is only a 4 hour drive away. I actually think with Mexico you find the women in Mexico City and Monterrey and then bring them to the beach. I could hang out a week in Mexico City. You cannot be bored there. But unless I am seeing multiple women, Monterrey gets old fast. Mexico City is actually the place in Mexico I suggest you go to use SA with what you are looking for. It has the best of everything in Mexico including women.

Bogota and Medellin are by far the two cities I have had the most luck with SA. Thing is Bogota is often gray, cloudy, rainy, and cold. The women in Medellin are slightly more attractive, and if I had to stay a week I would opt for Medellin due to the climate, but the women in Bogota are IMO friendlier, less materialistic, and more real. Medellin has a ton to do in and around the city. Bogota would get old after a week.

The other place where I had a lot of luck with SA is Barranquilla. I would shop for a woman there and then head to Santa Marta. Santa Marta has better beaches than Cartagena and I could stay there a week at the right resort. It is only 2 hours away by bus. IMO the best looking and performing women in Colombia are the costenas or coastal girls. There is not the number of women on SA in Barranquilla or Santa Marta but the three women I have been with from there were 8 to 10's in and out of the bedroom. They are incredibly sexual.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2629275]Knowing that there's a real person underneath their flesh somehow kills the thrill for me. I thought by knowing each other, it would make the sex more magical and more loving, but man, I was totally wrong.

And it is not just about sex gettting stale with the same person. I now realize that if I barely know the person, then I can fuck her for years. But once I get to know them, I lose interest fast.

Man, I am being so philosophical today, LOL.[/QUOTE]Yeah, MW, in the USA, when I got to know a SB, I wanted to keep it at kind of the formal but friendly layer because let us be honest, if you are a hot chick, you are kind of a fuck up if you have to do SA. And if they are not fuck ups, then they have a mental illness. Steve's gal clearly has body dysmorphic disorder (which pares with OCD with its horrible anxiety) and God knows what pissed her off. Maybe she got a glimpse in the mirror and did not like what she saw. Maybe he tried to be helpful versus supportive (Do you think your headache may be due to that nail honey? Yeah, Steve, I saw the video, hilarious!) So once you get to see what the women are really like, it is a definite turnoff.

I remember one SB saying she would cut her BF's dick off if he caught him cheating on her, and I remember saying that she was cheating too, and she said, "I am not." I guess she did not consider sex with me as cheating. LOL.

Thing is that the character of the women are better in other countries but I think if they get too comfortable, they think they do not have to perform sexually. I had an issue with this when I went monthly with American SA women and that is why I went to pure pay per meet.

[QUOTE=NapataJohn;2629976]Cannot verify if if it is correct.

[URL]https://www.ultimatecoupons.com/coupons/seeking_arrangement_coupons.htm?coupon=1844029[/URL][/QUOTE]Thanks for trying, but that one didn't work. Just got one in my inbox a few hours ago for 25% off, however. I had taken a bit of a break, but ready to jump back into the bowl. Lots of good reports on the forum to catch up with too.

Met my dusky skinned, black haired, brown eyed nubile teen nymphet today. 19 years old but I literally had to run out into the car park to ID her before she came in. Extremely youthful looking. Tiny and tight all over.

Misread her as sweet and naïve. Naïve, yes but another trashy hot chav but this one with an enthralling combination of sweetness and slutty worldliness.

Don't get these girls. She could be on AdultWork in a schoolgirl outfit offering covered blowjobs at £100 per half hour and making bank. Instead, she's in a cheap motel room with me for 3 hours (my time limit, I had to kick her out) for the same money BBFSCIP.

I've often wondered how to access semi-pro / just need a bit of short term cash girls in the UK. It seems the answer is SA.

I must have done something right because as I was driving home, she was already messaging me about meeting again.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2630009]Yeah, MW, in the USA, when I got to know a SB, I wanted to keep it at kind of the formal but friendly layer because let us be honest, if you are a hot chick, you are kind of a fuck up if you have to do SA. And if they are not fuck ups, then they have a mental illness. Steve's gal clearly has body dysmorphic disorder (which pares with OCD with its horrible anxiety) and God knows what pissed her off. Maybe she got a glimpse in the mirror and did not like what she saw. Maybe he tried to be helpful versus supportive (Do you think your headache may be due to that nail honey? Yeah, Steve, I saw the video, hilarious!) So once you get to see what the women are really like, it is a definite turnoff.

Thing is that the character of the women are better in other countries but I think if they get too comfortable, they think they do not have to perform sexually. I had an issue with this when I went monthly with American SA women and that is why I went to pure pay per meet.[/QUOTE]Yep, I totally agree. Before I was on SA, I did not have a high opinion of our company's secretaries. But after I was on SA and met all those fuckups on there, I then totally respected our company's secretaries. Unlike the gals on SA, the secretaries showed up to work on time every day, they got their work done, they did not do drugs, they raised their kids pretty well, they had some savings, they paid their bills on time, they went on vacations, they were responsible, etc.

I dated on SB for over a month, and I thought, wow, this person is totally normal. But then we went on a trip together and I realized what a huge disaster she was. I tried to get to know other SBs too, but eventually, I decided that getting to them that well was going down the wrong path.

If I could find an SB that I could get drunk with and fuck, that was perfect. Nothing more.

[QUOTE=JJanni;2630501]Met my dusky skinned, black haired, brown eyed nubile teen nymphet today. 19 years old but I literally had to run out into the car park to ID her before she came in. Extremely youthful looking. Tiny and tight all over.

Misread her as sweet and nave. Nave, yes but another trashy hot chav but this one with an enthralling combination of sweetness and slutty worldliness.

Don't get these girls. She could be on AdultWork in a schoolgirl outfit offering covered blowjobs at 100 per half hour and making bank. Instead, she's in a cheap motel room with me for 3 hours (my time limit, I had to kick her out) for the same money BBFSCIP.

I've often wondered how to access semi-pro / just need a bit of short term cash girls in the UK. It seems the answer is SA.

I must have done something right because as I was driving home, she was already messaging me about meeting again.[/QUOTE]That is so awesome J! You are the new king of SA. It's a good question about why she "does more for less" and I think Uma may have provided the answer. Even though she's at the other end of the spectrum - late stage medical student who clearly doesn't need to be doing this - she said one reason she does it is because it's naughty. And she's always dressing super slutty for dates which clearly draws attention. She loves sex and likes being naughty.

Think your gal may be the same way. She'd say condoms are for pussys and losers and she loves sex. The dirtier and seedier the better. So the 100 is kind of a side benefit and adds to the naughtiness. Least that's my theory.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2630507]Yep, I totally agree. Before I was on SA, I did not have a high opinion of our company's secretaries. But after I was on SA and met all those fuckups on there, I then totally respected our company's secretaries. Unlike the gals on SA, the secretaries showed up to work on time every day, they got their work done, they did not do drugs, they raised their kids pretty well, they had some savings, they paid their bills on time, they went on vacations, they were responsible, etc.

I dated on SB for over a month, and I thought, wow, this person is totally normal. But then we went on a trip together and I realized what a huge disaster she was. I tried to get to know other SBs too, but eventually, I decided that getting to them that well was going down the wrong path.

If I could find an SB that I could get drunk with and fuck, that was perfect. Nothing more.[/QUOTE]Yep, sad, but so true. It is so sad how messed up American women are. The more I travel abroad, I realize just how F. Up American Chicks are.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2630507]Yep, I totally agree. Before I was on SA, I did not have a high opinion of our company's secretaries. But after I was on SA and met all those fuckups on there, I then totally respected our company's secretaries. Unlike the gals on SA, the secretaries showed up to work on time every day, they got their work done, they did not do drugs, they raised their kids pretty well, they had some savings, they paid their bills on time, they went on vacations, they were responsible, etc.

I dated on SB for over a month, and I thought, wow, this person is totally normal. But then we went on a trip together and I realized what a huge disaster she was. I tried to get to know other SBs too, but eventually, I decided that getting to them that well was going down the wrong path.

If I could find an SB that I could get drunk with and fuck, that was perfect. Nothing more.[/QUOTE]Yeah I am of two minds on this topic. First I got to say there are some pretty smart and ambitious girls in the SA mix. Maybe I am just good at finding them. In addition to my medical student two of my fave SBs are ambitiously working on side businesses while working full time. Recently I've been helping them with some branding and logos and website stuff. On the one hand that is getting way to close to their real lives. On the other hand I really enjoy doing it. And they are so swamped with the basics of producing product that the little help I provide here is soooo appreciated.

That said I think Kayla and I are growing a little too comfy. It just feels a little too easy and formulaic now. I mean I should just be grateful but that itching caveman inside of me wants to seduce someone else! And I miss my two hours a day on SA! I've got 3 local girls want to fuck me next week and one I want to fuck in addition to them (never quite bedded her). And Kayla when I travel. So no need to be on SA but frankly I miss it! And the first date seduction. We will see what a good boy I can be. Or not…

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2631084]Yeah I am of two minds on this topic. First I got to say there are some pretty smart and ambitious girls in the SA mix. Maybe I am just good at finding them. In addition to my medical student two of my fave SBs are ambitiously working on side businesses while working full time. Recently I've been helping them with some branding and logos and website stuff. On the one hand that is getting way to close to their real lives. On the other hand I really enjoy doing it. And they are so swamped with the basics of producing product that the little help I provide here is soooo appreciated.

That said I think Kayla and I are growing a little too comfy. It just feels a little too easy and formulaic now. I mean I should just be grateful but that itching caveman inside of me wants to seduce someone else! And I miss my two hours a day on SA! I've got 3 local girls want to fuck me next week and one I want to fuck in addition to them (never quite bedded her). And Kayla when I travel. So no need to be on SA but frankly I miss it! And the first date seduction. We will see what a good boy I can be. Or not[/QUOTE]This is an interesting SA question. How many girls are just looking for an occasional paying date vs. Girls that use SA to pay their expenses. If a girl can command a high rate, it may make sense for her to have many clients. What is their price? Let's say a gal can make 500 ppm. She would probably need to do at least one meet per week to make sense. That would be one guy paying 2 K or four guys each paying 500. That nets her 24000 without any taxes. Is that enough for a student? I think your soon to be doctor is an interesting case. Given the super high costs, she is incurring some significant debts and I am not sure she can afford time away from her studies. It sounds more like you are an interesting alternative to dating because she has so little free time. OTOH, there are gals that don't have such a demanding schedule and can actually pay their way through school, but it would require a lot more time or much more generous SDs. I always forget how young they are and how little they know about real life. But that is also a reason why they are attractive.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2630507]Yep, I totally agree. Before I was on SA, I did not have a high opinion of our company's secretaries. But after I was on SA and met all those fuckups on there, I then totally respected our company's secretaries. Unlike the gals on SA, the secretaries showed up to work on time every day, they got their work done, they did not do drugs, they raised their kids pretty well, they had some savings, they paid their bills on time, they went on vacations, they were responsible, etc.

I dated on SB for over a month, and I thought, wow, this person is totally normal. But then we went on a trip together and I realized what a huge disaster she was. I tried to get to know other SBs too, but eventually, I decided that getting to them that well was going down the wrong path.

If I could find an SB that I could get drunk with and fuck, that was perfect. Nothing more.[/QUOTE]You are quite correct. Sex work comes with a lot of stigma in this country. The girls who are willing to take that risk do not think long term. They either cannot get their act together (I. E. Show up at a job on time on a regular basis or have emotional disciple) or want the benefits of wealth without being willing to work for it. If they are attractive, they can manipulate to get what they want. People who are successful either have a laser focus and / or have the tolerance to put up with shit until they are successful.

Sign up and at then I go to pay for premium and I am instantly banned, I read there support that if you bank shows something like 8 watch or other things then that is why you were banned, but that is not showing in my accounts. I've tried multiple cards, emails and devices with the same results. Any insights? Thank you!

[QUOTE=ManchesterLad1;2631375]Sign up and at then I go to pay for premium and I am instantly banned, I read there support that if you bank shows something like 8 watch or other things then that is why you were banned, but that is not showing in my accounts. I've tried multiple cards, emails and devices with the same results. Any insights? Thank you![/QUOTE]ML, I think you need to understand what SA is fighting and what American law is. Prostitution is the exchange of anything of value for sex or the expectation of sex. The goal then should be to offer up money but not directly doing so and try to morph your exchange into something that a potential boyfriend may do with a potential girlfriend. Also, do not offer to fly a woman or pay for travel on the first meet as that could be seen as trafficking.

From what I have found SA gives you more latitude in other countries where prostitution is legal, but even then I have not come out and said $200 for sex. What I have said is that I do not pay for sex, but if I have enjoyed the company of a woman from this site, and I have given them gifts. Usually the women get it but you do have the morons who say, "You mean you are not going to pay me?" and then I give up on them. I don't want to meet someone so stupid. Occasionally, I will define what prostitution actually is. At times, the women will ask how much in gifts and if I am really interested in the girl, I may offer up how much previous gifts have been but whenever you hear the question "how much?" the woman is a pure ho and I usually am not interested. The key is not to offer anything but hint at what they will get.

Of course, the women are interested in money and we are interested in sex, but I have found if it is 100% transactional, the sex is not as good. Using SA to find pros is usually disappointing, and the lower the percentage that is transactional IMO the better. The best dates I have had have been when a price has not been discussed.

The easiest way to get attention is to throw out a $ figure, but it is likely to get you banned. To me, if you show understanding of American prostitution and trafficking laws, and you type them up in your responses to women, your chances of getting banned IMO go way down.

I could be wrong, and what I am saying may have just been a lucky coincidence, but that has been what has worked for me.

I am forever learning the lingo and trappings of the 23 year old female. I came to love Doja Cat thru my girls and I'm always learning a thing or two. The other day Kayla said she had to get "snatched". Wtf? Kidnapped? Get her snatch waxed? What?

No it just means to get fixed up and look extra fine. Kids. Go figure. So another one is don't ever reply with "K". I do this all the time when I text with people my age. So the other day Kayla tells me please don't K her. That K is when you are mad at someone — kinda like "whatever". When she said his I thought — oh right she's said that before. But nope. I happened on a text from Sarah since she has come back into my life and we are rekindling. I was reviewing old texts and found she said the same thing!

Don't K your girl! It's disrespectful. I am sure I will learn something new tomorrow. They keep me young!

Apparently, when you text "goodnight" to a gal, it means that you are tired of texting them and want to shut them down for the night, especially if it is before 11 pm. LOL.

One annoying thing that I have found with young people is that if I do not reply to their text right away, then they get mad at me or think I am ignoring them. I tell them that I do not look at my phone all the time, and they think that is totally a lie, when in fact it is the truth. And so when we get into a fight about it, I ask them if their parents look at their phones all the time, and they say of course not because their parents are old. And then I remind them that I am way closer to their parents' age than their age, and suddenly I can see the realization hit them. LOL, man.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2631799]I am forever learning the lingo and trappings of the 23 year old female. I came to love Doja Cat thru my girls and I'm always learning a thing or two. The other day Kayla said she had to get "snatched". Wtf? Kidnapped? Get her snatch waxed? What?

No it just means to get fixed up and look extra fine. Kids. Go figure. So another one is don't ever reply with "K". I do this all the time when I text with people my age. So the other day Kayla tells me please don't K her. That K is when you are mad at someone kinda like "whatever". When she said his I thought oh right she's said that before. But nope. I happened on a text from Sarah since she has come back into my life and we are rekindling. I was reviewing old texts and found she said the same thing!

Don't K your girl! It's disrespectful. I am sure I will learn something new tomorrow. They keep me young![/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2631866]Apparently, when you text "goodnight" to a gal, it means that you are tired of texting them and want to shut them down for the night, especially if it is before 11 pm. LOL.

One annoying thing that I have found with young people is that if I do not reply to their text right away, then they get mad at me or think I am ignoring them. I tell them that I do not look at my phone all the time, and they think that is totally a lie, when in fact it is the truth. And so when we get into a fight about it, I ask them if their parents look at their phones all the time, and they say of course not because their parents are old. And then I remind them that I am way closer to their parents' age than their age, and suddenly I can see the realization hit them. LOL, man.[/QUOTE]Yes, you are correct the some are quick to get mad if you do not reply immediately, but most of the time those girls are going to be high maintenance. So it is probably for the best, just to move on.

So I know at least one person chimed in here and said "don't do it" and I have to admit I don't like my balls sticking to my thighs like they tend to do now. But I am thoroughly convinced my girls are giving me MUCH better ball licking and sucking action than before. As I posited I think a lot of these girls are bi and love eating pussy so a naked ball sack they can really get into. It's no longer "ah yeah some ball sucking" but really sloppy lavishing attention. The difference is noticeable.

So now to the recommendations. I tried Nair and ouch fuck. Even the gentle aloe stuff burned my balls bad. They were squeaky clean but not sure it was worth it. Always been afraid to go under the blade and nick myself but someone recommended Venus. Yes yes yes. This totally works! The big blade guards prevent angling improperly and catching a blade. Smooth sailing.

Highly recommend — shaving. And with Venus. All geared up for some amazing BLS!

So this has happened with two hookers I used to see in London. First was Melty with Diva. Total goddess. Next thing you know she is gone and posting pics of sports cars and boats from around the globe. Good for her.

Next down is Hannah. The spicy Thai wildcat. She's been posting for 6 months now from $2000/ night hotels and $500/ meal restaurants. I mean places I couldn't even afford the appetizers. And now she just posted a virtual rendering of a hair salon she hopes to open in Thailand. Wow. Landed the mega whale.

I am surprised more of these girls don't figure this out. If they are pretty and sexy they can land a guy with mega bucks and live on a yacht in the Mediterranean. Anyhow I am super happy for them and wish them the best!

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2632068]So this has happened with two hookers I used to see in London. First was Melty with Diva. Total goddess. Next thing you know she is gone and posting pics of sports cars and boats from around the globe. Good for her.

Next down is Hannah. The spicy Thai wildcat. She's been posting for 6 months now from $2000/ night hotels and $500/ meal restaurants. I mean places I couldn't even afford the appetizers. And now she just posted a virtual rendering of a hair salon she hopes to open in Thailand. Wow. Landed the mega whale.

I am surprised more of these girls don't figure this out. If they are pretty and sexy they can land a guy with mega bucks and live on a yacht in the Mediterranean. Anyhow I am super happy for them and wish them the best![/QUOTE]I think it is more about knowing how to do it and finding a target rich environment. You have to enjoy sex and being with someone older. Those gals have got game and they were motivated. Too many seem to think their looks alone is enough. The downside is these relationship do not last. Guys like variety and new. You have to be much better than average and be pleasant to be around. Divas need not apply unless your work in the agency. OTOH they have to navigate the pimp trap.

Some of these girls that do not hit the SD jackpot, or are not that pretty, can still do well in life. I became friends with a handful of WGs in Beijing. They are born poor, cannot get good education, are from very poor rural areas, no one gives them anything, and then later in life they may have the burden of taking care of their parents and maybe even a kid or two. And so they toil as a WG.

A typical case is a "friend" of mine, an outcall gal. For four years, she fucked about 40 guys per month, and made about $2,500 per month doing it. She eventually saved up over $100,000 and then "retired" and went back home and bought a nice condo.

I guess in some ways, I respect WGs more than SBs, on average.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2632068]So this has happened with two hookers I used to see in London. First was Melty with Diva. Total goddess. Next thing you know she is gone and posting pics of sports cars and boats from around the globe. Good for her.

Next down is Hannah. The spicy Thai wildcat. She's been posting for 6 months now from $2000/ night hotels and $500/ meal restaurants. I mean places I couldn't even afford the appetizers. And now she just posted a virtual rendering of a hair salon she hopes to open in Thailand. Wow. Landed the mega whale.

I am surprised more of these girls don't figure this out. If they are pretty and sexy they can land a guy with mega bucks and live on a yacht in the Mediterranean. Anyhow I am super happy for them and wish them the best![/QUOTE]

To me, it is shocking how much more BJs that I am getting ever since I started shaving down there. I honestly think they want to do it, rather than feel like they have to do it.

My balls are kept in place and don't stick to my thighs because I wear boxer briefs. I am guessing your wear boxers.

Dood, I cannot use a blade. Itches like a mother fucker. Electrice razer is close enough for me.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2632026]So I know at least one person chimed in here and said "don't do it" and I have to admit I don't like my balls sticking to my thighs like they tend to do now. But I am thoroughly convinced my girls are giving me MUCH better ball licking and sucking action than before. As I posited I think a lot of these girls are bi and love eating pussy so a naked ball sack they can really get into. It's no longer "ah yeah some ball sucking" but really sloppy lavishing attention. The difference is noticeable.

So now to the recommendations. I tried Nair and ouch fuck. Even the gentle aloe stuff burned my balls bad. They were squeaky clean but not sure it was worth it. Always been afraid to go under the blade and nick myself but someone recommended Venus. Yes yes yes. This totally works! The big blade guards prevent angling improperly and catching a blade. Smooth sailing.

Highly recommend shaving. And with Venus. All geared up for some amazing BLS![/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2632068]So this has happened with two hookers I used to see in London. First was Melty with Diva. Total goddess. Next thing you know she is gone and posting pics of sports cars and boats from around the globe. Good for her.

Next down is Hannah. The spicy Thai wildcat. She's been posting for 6 months now from $2000/ night hotels and $500/ meal restaurants. I mean places I couldn't even afford the appetizers. And now she just posted a virtual rendering of a hair salon she hopes to open in Thailand. Wow. Landed the mega whale.

I am surprised more of these girls don't figure this out. If they are pretty and sexy they can land a guy with mega bucks and live on a yacht in the Mediterranean. Anyhow I am super happy for them and wish them the best![/QUOTE]It's not as easy a life as it might look for the sugar baby. I have a mega-rich friend who has a place in Malibu on the ocean. He always has what I call a Penthouse Pet quality woman living with him. They usually last about a year before he tires of them or the woman starts getting into the marriage, kids thing. Of course, he's cheating on them in the city or business trips. He always has new takers lined-up. In Los Angeles, there are always a bevy of hot women who just want to dress in nice clothes, eat at expensive restaurants and lay out at the pool.

While the girl lives with him, I get the impression she is never secure in the relationship. Duh, right. She kind of looks after him when he's home and doesn't ask too many questions about his comings and goings. Does he give them money? I presume so. I have no idea how much.

All I can say, it's always fun for me to stop over when in Los Angeles. I will likely see a 9+ knockout sunbathing topless on his deck. I will say these girls are poised, confident and generally intelligent. These women always attract a lot of attention when were out. The trick for them is landing the whale in marriage and kids. He's never married, but I think some of these women would simply be happy having a kid or two with him even if it shortly ended up in a divorce.

Steve, when you mention living on a yacht, I wonder how many hot women have been dropped off at a Mediterranean port with an envelope of cash and an abrupt goodbye.

I have been in contact with girls from Moldova and Russia recently.

Basically I lost a lot of money. It was during Corona lock down in spring and I wanted build up a connection for the time after corona.

The girl from Russia (21 year old medical student) needed money for medical school, then the car crashed and she needed money for that. Then we prepared for a trip to Dubai in summer. I paid her plane tickets. Money for her to get the passport faster. In the end she canceled 3 days ahead because she was ill. Total damage 4000.

The other girl from Moldova received monthly payments of about 200-300€. Also I had sent some clothes and received pictures of her wearing those in return.

I booked her a flight to visit me in Germany and waited three hours at the airport but she would never arrive. Total damage her 1500 or so over time.

Its a disaster and I am happy the German FKK clubs are open again.

I lost trust in SA and can not imagine this actually works in Germany and Czech / Moldova / Russia.

Sorry to hear about your experience.

General rule is to never give money or gifts before meeting.

It works in Czech.

Had a great date with Uma earlier this week. Took her to an awesome speakeasy for some great food and drinks and then of course playtime. We spent the vast majority of our bedroom time doing what I am going to call the Steve 2. It is totally a fave but whenever I do it it seems like the girl has never done it before. So I am curious any of you tried / like this position:

You lay her on her back and kneel by her head. Turn her head towards your dick and have her suck your cock. Meanwhile reach down between her legs with your free hand and finger her. Optionally massage a breast with the other hand.

For me, fingering pussy while being blown is just a top notch thing. And there is no better position than this. It's dominant, she has amazing mouth access to both the boys and the shaft, and you don't have to contort to slips those fingers in her pussy. We musta done this for 20 minutes at least maybe more. The girls seem to love having a cock in their mouth and being fingered at same time.

Anyone else a fan of the Steve 2?

[QUOTE=Toto001;2633213]I have been in contact with girls from Moldova and Russia recently.

Basically I lost a lot of money. It was during Corona lock down in spring and I wanted build up a connection for the time after corona.

The girl from Russia (21 year old medical student) needed money for medical school, then the car crashed and she needed money for that. Then we prepared for a trip to Dubai in summer. I paid her plane tickets. Money for her to get the passport faster. In the end she canceled 3 days ahead because she was ill. Total damage 4000.

The other girl from Moldova received monthly payments of about 200-300. Also I had sent some clothes and received pictures of her wearing those in return.

I booked her a flight to visit me in Germany and waited three hours at the airport but she would never arrive. Total damage her 1500 or so over time.

Its a disaster and I am happy the German FKK clubs are open again.[/QUOTE]This has nothing to do with SA. This is very bad judgment.

I must admit I have attempted to fly a girls to meet me a couple of times, it usually does not end well. Sending money to girls you have not met in person, this will end in disaster 99.9% of the time. Use common sense, try not to make the same mistake twice, do not trust,(until trust is earned), and always verify. (I need to also practice what I preach, I still get caught up in the moment and make bad decisions.)

Have you guys seen the rates for seeking arrangement?

[URL]http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2512037&viewfull=1[/URL]#post2512037.

It says 300 CAD for a date on seeking arrangement.

It actually could be 300-400 CAD.

On a standard seeking arrangement date you may meet the girl in your apartment get to know each other for 30 minutes then possibly have sex if both parties agree and then talk again for another 30 minutes. So you could expect 2 to 3 hours.

I'm just trying to slowly demonstrate to you guys that it's not always necessary to pay 1500 for 4 hours.

Also I know of Montréal escorts that have taken trips through Canada and worldwide vacation destination with their clients. And they would never go on trips with a client that they don't trust. The client most naturally also has to be The escort's friend. They are hanging out and spending time together. And friendship implies trust.

Also I'm very well aware that they are certain individuals that pay 1500 cad. The last guy when a girl told me that he paid that much received actually the entire day. But these guys are definitely very generous. And if they took time to get to know the scene they could get more for the money. I think most of these guys are not locals. You definitely have to be a local to receive better pricing.

I'm not saying guy should be cheap. It usually the most generous guys who receive generosity from the escort. But there are some guys that pay outrageous prices and don't get what they could be getting.

I had this awesome SB (more like a FWB, than a SA-SB) who has started to go cold recently. And is 30+ and is now talking about missing out on having family etc. Well, it is up to her. As I see signs of her going cold sooner than later, I got back on SA and started scouting. Spoke to a few, and met with two.

S is another 30+ year old but super fit. Her legs are particularly toned which I like. We chatted for a bit on SA and then soon moved to Telegram. Fixed a meet and greet. We met at this Italian place, had some food and drinks. She was very skeptical at first but towards the end of it, I could see that she was warming up. When it came time to take her, she said she has an appointment to walk the dog of her friend. I assumed it was her polite way of saying no. I went back and started my work. But, I had a message from her that she is done with her dog walk and can come over now. I said, sure. Why not?

She came over, we chatted for a bit, finished up a bottle of Rose and things started heating up. Some kisses, some fondling, and eventually managed to slip my hands under her bra. Very firm tits. And natural. Just the way I like it. As our kisses got wetter and wetter, I carried her to the bed. Undid her panties and dived straight down. Smelled and tasted good. I could feel her wetness. And, we were ready for the act. This is where things did not go as I would have liked. She refused even a BJ uncovered. I hate it with condom and have difficulty getting it up. Somehow, we managed and after a lot of effort from her side, and half erect on my side, I managed to slide it in. While the sex itself lasted for nearly 15/20 minutes, I was still not satisfied as I did not even get a BBBJ. I'm not going to repeat her unless she agrees to a BBBJ at the minimum.

Su is a 25 year old. She is my first in the 25 or less category (I normally find it that the younger the chick, the more the focus is on money, gifts. I'm not against giving them what they want but if that becomes the primary point of concern, it takes the fun away). We met for a dinner and all went well. We had chemistry but decided not to do the deed. We again met for a lunch as she was short of money (signs of a 20+ year old behavior) for some repairs on her car. While the car repair is true (I picked her up from where it broke), I did not like the fact that she was laying that as a way to get money. I gave her 200 but again. No action. I see this as a calculated investment as I'm willing to bet sooner or later this one will be on my bed. She seems OK with BBBJ and CIM which will make this one a much more attractive option than S. But, if her talk of 'money' continues, I will not hesitate to pull the plug. 200 bucks is not a great deal to let go.

[QUOTE=Android2987;2633961]Have you guys seen the rates for seeking arrangement?

[URL]http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2512037&viewfull=1[/URL]#post2512037.

It says 300 CAD for a date on seeking arrangement.

It actually could be 300-400 CAD.

On a standard seeking arrangement date you may meet the girl in your apartment get to know each other for 30 minutes then possibly have sex if both parties agree and then talk again for another 30 minutes. So you could expect 2 to 3 hours.

I'm just trying to slowly demonstrate to you guys that it's not always necessary to pay 1500 for 4 hours.

Also I know of Montral escorts that have taken trips through Canada and worldwide vacation destination with their clients. And they would never go on trips with a client that they don't trust. The client most naturally also has to be The escort's friend. They are hanging out and spending time together. And friendship implies trust.

Also I'm very well aware that they are certain individuals that pay 1500 cad. The last guy when a girl told me that he paid that much received actually the entire day. But these guys are definitely very generous. And if they took time to get to know the scene they could get more for the money. I think most of these guys are not locals. You definitely have to be a local to receive better pricing.

I'm not saying guy should be cheap. It usually the most generous guys who receive generosity from the escort. But there are some guys that pay outrageous prices and don't get what they could be getting.[/QUOTE]Not sure who you were addressing this to. There is no guy on this forum paying 1500 for four hours. The guys here in the Seeking thread def know the game. 300-400 Sounds about right to me. US is similar. Sure girls ask 800-1000 and they get instablocked by me and the others here I am sure. Heck Elvis says don't pay them at all. LOL.

I have recently taken to treating girls I like more like a girlfriend and buying her stuff without considering it part of the "transaction". I'm viewing the PPM as the incentive for her to overlook our 30 year age difference but otherwise treat her like your girl (this is regulars and girls I spend or have spent the weekend with). Some boots. A skirt. Whatever makes their day. Logos. A website. LOL. It's really small change and the best part is that I do it because I WANT to. And guess what they give me the best experience ever after that. But it's because it's non transactional that it works so well. I expect exactly ZERO in return. But I always get way more than that.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2633383]...Anyone else a fan of the Steve 2?[/QUOTE]I tried it yesterday. This is my observation. I was on her right hand side. I had to put two pillows under her head to adjust the height. She used her left hand while sucking which made touching her breast difficult. What improvement should I make to make this work better?

[QUOTE=Nounce;2634142]I tried it yesterday. This is my observation. I was on her right hand side. I had to put two pillows under her head to adjust the height. She used her left hand while sucking which made touching her breast difficult. What improvement should I make to make this work better?[/QUOTE]Dude you totally made my day trying this out! Key is you have to spread your legs wide. You are on your knees yes but legs spread wide. So your dick is only 6" off the mattress. That should do the trick. Wouldn't worry the breast too much. That's just a bonus and frankly only just discovered it myself. Key is you can finger her while being blown. That's the magic imo. Love that you gave it a go. Just spread those legs wide and you are all set.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2634149]... Just spread those legs wide and you are all set.[/QUOTE]Thanks, I may have another opportunity to try it tonight. Had a date with the same girl tonight but her unattractive friend interfered and wanted to tag alone so not sure what is going to happen yet.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2633383]Had a great date with Uma earlier this week. Took her to an awesome speakeasy for some great food and drinks and then of course playtime. We spent the vast majority of our bedroom time doing what I am going to call the Steve 2. It is totally a fave but whenever I do it it seems like the girl has never done it before. So I am curious any of you tried / like this position:

You lay her on her back and kneel by her head. Turn her head towards your dick and have her suck your cock. Meanwhile reach down between her legs with your free hand and finger her. Optionally massage a breast with the other hand.

For me, fingering pussy while being blown is just a top notch thing. And there is no better position than this. It's dominant, she has amazing mouth access to both the boys and the shaft, and you don't have to contort to slips those fingers in her pussy. We musta done this for 20 minutes at least maybe more. The girls seem to love having a cock in their mouth and being fingered at same time.[/QUOTE]Haha I have never tried the Steve 2 position. But I enjoy fingering while being blown. My go to position is me lying down on my back on a pillow. The girl lays sideways and takes the dick with the hand and mouth. She slides her bottom closet to me towards the pillow so I can reach her pussy. From my experience must girls love their clit and pussy touched and fingered while the tongue is all over my dick. But it's been a long time between drinks because of covid. I have also tried with the girl lying down on her back and me more like kneeling position with knees either side of her face. But this position is not so comfortable to finger as you have to twist to reach the pussy.

So here locally the Hyatt has become my go to and I've taken a handful of girls there, several on a regular basis. Probably been there 20+ times over the past year or so. The desk clerks rotate a lot and I've probably only had the same one twice.

Checking in (with Uma nearby) earlier this week the new clerk is looking at the screen and says "oh I'm just reading the notes here. I guess you know how all this works since you stay with us often. ".

I can only imagine what the notes say:

Comes in often with no luggage and a bottle of wine.

Seems to have a different girl every time.

Never stays overnight.

Bedding is never turned down but the bed spread is quite wrinkled.

Usually leaves alcohol and wet towels behind.

Only the occasional condom wrapper.

Great guy and clearly doing us a favor paying overnight rates for 3 hours of room time. Treat him well!

I am at Bogota for a week and want to find good SA contacts. Thanks in advance.

[QUOTE=MiamiBoy1;2609943]I could share a few SA contacts with you to get you started, but you need to upgrade your membership in order to receive or send PMs here.

SA in MDE is very though, you can read my recent posts in which I complain a lot LOL.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Toto001;2633213]I have been in contact with girls from Moldova and Russia recently.

Basically I lost a lot of money. It was during Corona lock down in spring and I wanted build up a connection for the time after corona.

The girl from Russia (21 year old medical student) needed money for medical school, then the car crashed and she needed money for that. Then we prepared for a trip to Dubai in summer. I paid her plane tickets. Money for her to get the passport faster. In the end she canceled 3 days ahead because she was ill. Total damage 4000.

The other girl from Moldova received monthly payments of about 200-300. Also I had sent some clothes and received pictures of her wearing those in return.

I booked her a flight to visit me in Germany and waited three hours at the airport but she would never arrive. Total damage her 1500 or so over time.

Its a disaster and I am happy the German FKK clubs are open again.

I lost trust in SA and can not imagine this actually works in Germany and Czech / Moldova / Russia.[/QUOTE]You're not doing it right. Sending a woman money before you've met her is not a good idea. Paying for an expensive, nonrefundable plane ticket before you meet is not a good idea.

I saw a SB in another city a few times, we clicked really well, so I paid for a ticket for her to a destination in the Caribbean. She ghosted, and I would have been out the price of the ticket if her flight hadn't been delayed, which allowed me to cancel with no penalty. That's not going to happen to me again.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2634149]...just spread those legs wide and you are all set.[/QUOTE]Just tried it and it worked well. LOL But by any chance that you practice yoga?

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2634235]You're not doing it right. Sending a woman money before you've met her is not a good idea. Paying for an expensive, nonrefundable plane ticket before you meet is not a good idea.

I saw a SB in another city a few times, we clicked really well, so I paid for a ticket for her to a destination in the Caribbean. She ghosted, and I would have been out the price of the ticket if her flight hadn't been delayed, which allowed me to cancel with no penalty. That's not going to happen to me again.[/QUOTE]Better to go to her home town and then fly with her from there.

[QUOTE=Nounce;2634255]Just tried it and it worked well. LOL But by any chance that you practice yoga?[/QUOTE]Isn't fingering pussy while being blown just magical?

Yoga? No I benefit more simply from the flexibility that fucking young hotties in creative positions provides. I study at the Church of the Hot Twenty-something. Namaste!

PS I strongly recommend the Steve 1 as well. Has so many nice benefits:

Fuck forever and never tire
Watch the in and out action
Great leverage when grabbing legs
Highly dominant
Make out when u want to
Girls seem to absolutely adore it (heavy gspot banging if u have an upswing)

This belongs here. LOL.

[QUOTE=Elmilusoss;2631968]
My wife and side girl Pt 1[/QUOTE]

I am not aware of anyone who thinks they need to pay 1500 in Canada. The Canadian mongers that I know, know the Canadian rates very well. Even the novice mongers. This is because the mongering scene in Canada is pretty well known and established. I used SA in Canada with pretty good success. I hate to generalize, but I think using SA in Canada is easier than using SA in the states. And yes, 300 CAD was a typical rate, but it could get up to 400 or 500 CAD.

[QUOTE=Android2987;2633961]Have you guys seen the rates for seeking arrangement?

[URL]http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2512037&viewfull=1[/URL]#post2512037.

It says 300 CAD for a date on seeking arrangement.

It actually could be 300-400 CAD.

On a standard seeking arrangement date you may meet the girl in your apartment get to know each other for 30 minutes then possibly have sex if both parties agree and then talk again for another 30 minutes. So you could expect 2 to 3 hours.

I'm just trying to slowly demonstrate to you guys that it's not always necessary to pay 1500 for 4 hours.

[/QUOTE].

Will try it. But I wonder if it will beat my current favorite way of getting a BBBJ, which is sitting on the bed with my back against the headboard or wall, and letting them suck me while I am drinking a beer with my left hand and caressing their hair with my right hand. Sometimes I will watch TV too.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2634588]Will try it. But I wonder if it will beat my current favorite way of getting a BBBJ, which is sitting on the bed with my back against the headboard or wall, and letting them suck me while I am drinking a beer with my left hand and caressing their hair with my right hand. Sometimes I will watch TV too.[/QUOTE]Haha love it. Will call that one the Midwestern. I do think I will have to try it! It should be noted however that since the Steve 2 is an upright position it should be very possible to have two fingers in her pussy and two fingers of whiskey in a glass in your other hand! The Midwestern Steve 2? I might have to try that too!

Oh wait I kinda did the Midwestern with Alexa. Sat in a chair on the balcony and had my drink while she blew me. This was one of the most amazing experiences ever. Cuz she just wanted to chat while she blew me. How did I lose my virginity. Favorite blowjob technique. First kiss. It was amazing to just chat while she blew me and we kept on drinking. This was literally a 30 minute BJ. Will remember that a long time!

I realize that when I have regulars I miss all the searching and seduction. Worth it of course but I do miss it. Well luck would have it that Uma is moving back to the Midwest after her semester here in town and I am on the prowl.

Reengaged with Sarah. She's from nearly a year back — long story we had a great date but no time for hotel due to drama with her Ex. And have stayed in touch on and off but no second meetup. Now trying to figure it out But she works full time and has a two year old and lives 45 minutes away. These factors make it a super long shot. Normally I'the rock on but she is a legit 9+ Cambodian mix. OMG she slays me.

My new excitement is Mattie. Wow this girl is so cute and so hot and genuinely engaging and interesting. We've been chatting a few days. Her Platonic tag was obviously a big red flag but she read my profile which said pretty clearly what I want. Anyhow been having great light chat and got down to meetup chat and we got pretty serious. She s had sexual trauma in the past and not sure she can go there. But I like the challenge of the seduction and showing her that not all men are pigs. So we had a very honest conversation and agreed we will meet up. And it could fizzle or it could sizzle but we are going in eyes wide open having talked it thru. I give it a 100% chance of being fun and being friends and 20% chance of seduction. But I've had a handful of first timers and made magic from it — so let's roll the dice and let it happen. I'll keep you posted.

Hi guys,

I am new to seeking but would like to try it in Rio and SP Brazil. It will be my second trip to Brazil and I speak a little Portuguese and Spanish.

I couldn't find any recent reports for Brazil. Does anyone have experience with SA in Brazil? What is usually expected regarding price, is PPM the best way to go?

Would love to have some tips before I got stung by Brazilian killer bees kkkk.

Thanks in advance guys.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2634602]Her Platonic tag was obviously a big red flag but she read my profile which said pretty clearly what I want. Anyhow been having great light chat and got down to meetup chat and we got pretty serious. She s had sexual trauma in the past and not sure she can go there. But I like the challenge of the seduction and showing her that not all men are pigs. So we had a very honest conversation and agreed we will meet up. And it could fizzle or it could sizzle but we are going in eyes wide open having talked it thru. I give it a 100% chance of being fun and being friends and 20% chance of seduction. But I've had a handful of first timers and made magic from it so let's roll the dice and let it happen. I'll keep you posted.[/QUOTE]LOL. That is quite the challenge. I had a married SB who had been raped, and I think was afraid of meeting men other than me. The sex life she had with her husband was awful. I would be hard pressed to say any other SB I had liked sex more than this one. She was so into the sex. In fact, one time she told me the night before she had a dream about my dick. She asked me, "Is that weird?

I do not think I ever hit gold with someone with the platonic tag, but I did bed a woman who was asking for $10,000 a month and paid her $300. She was a great fuck. Thing is that she put that high price out there to keep away the pretenders but it kept most every guy away.

So of the many many many girls I've seen, I have the most ridiculous attraction to Alexa physically, chemically, and as a person. Just a total gem of a girl. But I recently started a "best of the best" list where I put 3-4 girls in each category:

Best BJ.

Best Sex.

Best Passion.

Best Tits.

Best Ass.

Best Eyes.

Best Mouth.

Best Overall Girlfriend Vibe.

And it's interesting that there are a pile of girls that show up in one or two categories. Only three show up in three or more: Krystal 3/8. Kayla 4/8. And Alexa 6/8. So amazingly the quants for Alexa line up with my gut. It's of course possible I am coloring my view because I like her so much. But I did it independently and it just showed up. Anyhow going to try to figure out how to see her again. She's down. And of course super happy Kayla with 50% is still actively my girl!

What about you guys. If you lay it out like this does one girl check a lot of boxes or do you find them all over the map like I did (other than Alexa)?

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2636130]So of the many many many girls I've seen, I have the most ridiculous attraction to Alexa physically, chemically, and as a person. Just a total gem of a girl. But I recently started a "best of the best" list where I put 3-4 girls in each category:

Best BJ.

Best Sex.

Best Passion.

Best Tits.

Best Ass.

Best Eyes.

Best Mouth.

Best Overall Girlfriend Vibe.

And it's interesting that there are a pile of girls that show up in one or two categories. Only three show up in three or more: Krystal 3/8. Kayla 4/8. And Alexa 6/8. So amazingly the quants for Alexa line up with my gut. It's of course possible I am coloring my view because I like her so much. But I did it independently and it just showed up. Anyhow going to try to figure out how to see her again. She's down. And of course super happy Kayla with 50% is still actively my girl!

What about you guys. If you lay it out like this does one girl check a lot of boxes or do you find them all over the map like I did (other than Alexa)?[/QUOTE]I am not sure about putting them in top 3. To me, it is like how does she kiss, suck, fuck, behave, and act GF like? My first real SB was stunning, gave the best head I have ever had, and I enjoyed being around her. However, the sex was good not great and in my mind, the fact that she had a BF and we became more like friends got in the way of things which I have not had happen before. I could not get too turned on because I felt like I was doing a friend.

My second real SB checked all the boxes looks and sex wise but I always felt like at the end of the day it was transactional.

Then you have other stuff that creeps in there: mental illness, selfishness, or BSC personality. At best, a woman with those qualities can only be taken in doses.

With you and Alexa, I am not sure the fight will be with her talent as much as the Coolidge effect: [URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coolidge_effect[/URL].

Will the temptation or need to see someone new trump the better but boring and reliable?

What I found is that if I rotated my women and saw them only every week or two, it kept things fresh and the Coolidge effect could be kept at bay. The issue with me going forward will be when I see my gal longer than for a few days every 2 weeks. Will the passion still be there? Chris Rock did a great bit on this: commitment v new pussy.

[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qp39zD6_cLU[/URL]

It is funny how this whole competition keeps up, and you are always looking for better, but I am not sure in the long run if that is what matters. I was talking to my brother and saying I finally found someone who made me happy. When we were talking, she filled my drink and cooked me lunch, and I told him that. That was a huge turn on.

Then without even asking, she is cleaning dirt off my shoes. I told my other brother about that and he says his American woman would be bitching at him, "Why aren't you cleaning MY shoes?

So yeah, I go for the looks and sex up front, but I think it is personality, commitment, and character that win out in the end. We are always looking for better, but I am not sure if we really want to be.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2634602]I realize that when I have regulars I miss all the searching and seduction. Worth it of course but I do miss it. Well luck would have it that Uma is moving back to the Midwest after her semester here in town and I am on the prowl.

Reengaged with Sarah. She's from nearly a year back long story we had a great date but no time for hotel due to drama with her Ex. And have stayed in touch on and off but no second meetup. Now trying to figure it out But she works full time and has a two year old and lives 45 minutes away. These factors make it a super long shot. Normally I'the rock on but she is a legit 9+ Cambodian mix. OMG she slays me.

My new excitement is Mattie. Wow this girl is so cute and so hot and genuinely engaging and interesting. We've been chatting a few days. Her Platonic tag was obviously a big red flag but she read my profile which said pretty clearly what I want. Anyhow been having great light chat and got down to meetup chat and we got pretty serious. She s had sexual trauma in the past and not sure she can go there. But I like the challenge of the seduction and showing her that not all men are pigs. So we had a very honest conversation and agreed we will meet up. And it could fizzle or it could sizzle but we are going in eyes wide open having talked it thru. I give it a 100% chance of being fun and being friends and 20% chance of seduction. But I've had a handful of first timers and made magic from it so let's roll the dice and let it happen. I'll keep you posted.[/QUOTE]So planning a date with Sarah she asks if we can take it slow — as in another platonic date. I don't generally have a problem with this but I was having to do some schedule magic to work her in and it's just not worth that for a platonic date. So I said fine but we need to reschedule and instead Uma texted wanting to see me so we had a super nice date instead. With all the trimmings of course.

Meanwhile Mattie's gone a bit quiet but Jay ha totally taken over my mind space. Jay was a long shot and our initial conversation a bit off (English is her second language) but eventually we got a groove on text. Now she texts me every morning and night with cute little selfies of what she is up to. OMG she is so cute and hot. But mostly it's the girlfriendy thing! Mattie and Sarah are more my type but having this GND hottie checking on me everyday and sending selfies is soooo my vibe. I'm truly excited to meet her (soon!) I am really as much about how she treats me as anything — I love affection and attentiveness — as long as she crosses the attraction bar. And Jay has totally exceeded that.

My second weekend trim to M. City is off to amazing start. I arrive yesterday at 5 pm, Uber issues, so I was running a late. The main girl I was going to cancel, but I had setup a meeting at 5;30 for drinks. We meet at 6 pm, my phone is blowing up with work issues and problems at my apartment. Things calm down. We are talking and drinking. I was not totally into her, but was decent. She says she is bi-sexual. What the Hell, lets make the night work. I say call one of your friends. She does, and the girl is over 1 hour late. We are drinking and smoking shisha. Music is great food and music.

The girls were ready to go back to my place, we finally get an Uber, total pain in the ass, it was only a 2 minute walk, but I did not to make the girls walk. We get back to my palace and the rest is History. Expensive night, but what the hell.

The next morning I had another threesome setup, now these two are super cute and fun. Total craziness for 90 minutes. This was all done in 18 hours. I have 2 more meetings Saturday. I am totally loving M. City.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2636927]So planning a date with Sarah she asks if we can take it slow as in another platonic date. I don't generally have a problem with this but I was having to do some schedule magic to work her in and it's just not worth that for a platonic date. [/QUOTE]Even when I am dating regularly, I have a 3 date rule. If sex does not happen by the third date, then I think there's a 99 percent chance that it will never happen, and so I just cut bait. So, I totally agree with your stance on Sarah.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2636959]My second weekend trim to M. City is off to amazing start.
The girls were ready to go back to my place, we finally get an Uber, total pain in the ass, it was only a 2 minute walk, but I did not to make the girls walk. We get back to my palace and the rest is History. Expensive night, but what the hell.

The next morning I had another threesome setup, now these two are super cute and fun. Total craziness for 90 minutes. This was all done in 18 hours. I have 2 more meetings Saturday. I am totally loving M. City.[/QUOTE]I have hit a dry spell. Only got laid once in the past month, and that was with a WG. For some reason, a couple of my regulars are no longer into meetups. Maybe I am doing something wrong.

Meanwhile, I love strange, but man, it is really hard to find new gals. A couple of days ago, I was getting a veggie massage and I thought my masseause was cute and so I asked for her WeChat and she said no. Dang!

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2636533]I am not sure about putting them in top 3. To me, it is like how does she kiss, suck, fuck, behave, and act GF like? My first real SB was stunning, gave the best head I have ever had, and I enjoyed being around her. However, the sex was good not great and in my mind, the fact that she had a BF and we became more like friends got in the way of things which I have not had happen before. I could not get too turned on because I felt like I was doing a friend.[/QUOTE]My main criteria these days is if she is willing to do bareback. I will choose to fuck a 5 bareback over an 8 covered. I might even happily fuck a 3 if it is bareback.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2637529]My main criteria these days is if she is willing to do bareback. I will choose to fuck a 5 bareback over an 8 covered. I might even happily fuck a 3 if it is bareback.[/QUOTE]There is a guy in the Sao Paulo thread, think his name is Anaggie, who says that having a recent AIDS test helps him get bareback. I have had two women who saw my test and they were cool with bareback after I showed it to them.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2636959]The next morning I had another threesome setup, now these two are super cute and fun. Total craziness for 90 minutes. This was all done in 18 hours. I have 2 more meetings Saturday. I am totally loving M. City.[/QUOTE]I am glad you are having a great time. Thing is that the average income in Mexico City is the same as a lot of the USA. What that means is not only are there a lot of hot and worldly women, they are often in high demand because there are so many men with money.

Of the four tens I met in CDMX, I followed them on Instagram. Three of the four moved sideways after meeting me (and that is not typical with the SBs I have had), and one hit the absolute jackpot.

My point is that you have to lock them down much more quickly in CDMX than other Mexican cities or in Colombia. I do not think there is a woman I met in MTY or Colombia I could not call up and see again, but I think I would be given the cold shoulder if I approached any of these four. They are taken.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2637751]I am glad you are having a great time. Thing is that the average income in Mexico City is the same as a lot of the USA. What that means is not only are there a lot of hot and worldly women, they are often in high demand because there are so many men with money.

Of the four tens I met in CDMX, I followed them on Instagram. Three of the four moved sideways after meeting me (and that is not typical with the SBs I have had), and one hit the absolute jackpot.

My point is that you have to lock them down much more quickly in CDMX than other Mexican cities or in Colombia. I do not think there is a woman I met in MTY or Colombia I could not call up and see again, but I think I would be given the cold shoulder if I approached any of these four. They are taken.[/QUOTE]Yep, 100% true. The girls I am meeting are way more sophisticated in M. City, then MTY.

I do disagree it is way more expensive here then MTY, but also much better and there is Hot Attainable girls everywhere. Girls do want to hang out here, so you get more bang for your buck. If I you want to live like J. Carter that is a different story. You can get by cheap here, but I real doubt the higher end girls will go for that.

At the airport now, heading back to Texas tonight. I will be in MTY to celebrate Christmas Thursday evening with the model, then back to Mexico City.

Life is great!!

So Kayla and I had a great few days together. Our fifth time and getting a bit more coupled up each time. We rented an Airbnb loft so it was more like playing house. There were some minuses. Like we stayed in a lot. She said she doesn't really like to go out. That she only does it because I like to. Boo. That's unfortunate to learn. But some nice pluses too like when she cooked dinner the second night and when she got more lit our third night and gave the best doe eyes BJ and was just really romantic and passionate. It's getting a little too comfortable but damn she still checks pretty much all the boxes.

But my favorite line was this:

"I'd be a great wife. I just want to suck dick and cook. ".

Yep babe. That pretty much describes a great wife! LOL.

Ps and she’s fully serious. She’d love to find some successful guy and just wife up.

Just got an email notification I was permanently suspended for soliciting sex in exchange of money. I asked a few girls if they'd like to spend time and during some conversations we talked about becoming more "intimate" in exchange of a gift or compensation. Would that have done it? Or was it a girl I told I would not pay her 400 just for dinner over text and she reported me? I'm bummed, I was finally starting to get some girls to agree to meet. Has anyone been successful at overturning a ban?

[QUOTE=EverythingBlue;2638672]Just got an email notification I was permanently suspended for soliciting sex in exchange of money. I asked a few girls if they'd like to spend time and during some conversations we talked about becoming more "intimate" in exchange of a gift or compensation. Would that have done it? Or was it a girl I told I would not pay her 400 just for dinner over text and she reported me? I'm bummed, I was finally starting to get some girls to agree to meet. Has anyone been successful at overturning a ban?[/QUOTE]Doh! Hasn't everyone and his brother said don't talk that explicitly? I know you didn't say for money but "intimate for compensation" surely comes to close to the fire. You have to take things over to text to discuss more carefully. Though I have never been quite that explicit. It's also a turnoff for most girls.

As far as why you were banned I don't think they can generally monitor conversations but I bet they can read all your stuff if someone reports you. So that likely triggered it.

Only way to get back on would be to VPN from a different device. With different email. Credit card not in your name (like a visa gift card I guess). Basically become a new person.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2638695]Doh! Hasn't everyone and his brother said don't talk that explicitly? I know you didn't say for money but "intimate for compensation" surely comes to close to the fire. You have to take things over to text to discuss more carefully. Though I have never been quite that explicit. It's also a turnoff for most girls.

As far as why you were banned I don't think they can generally monitor conversations but I bet they can read all your stuff if someone reports you. So that likely triggered it.

Only way to get back on would be to VPN from a different device. With different email. Credit card not in your name (like a visa gift card I guess). Basically become a new person.[/QUOTE]Oh well. I hope the girls I'm texting with come through in an upcoming trip then. Thanks for the reply.

[QUOTE=EverythingBlue;2638672]Just got an email notification I was permanently suspended for soliciting sex in exchange of money. I asked a few girls if they'd like to spend time and during some conversations we talked about becoming more "intimate" in exchange of a gift or compensation. Would that have done it? Or was it a girl I told I would not pay her 400 just for dinner over text and she reported me? I'm bummed, I was finally starting to get some girls to agree to meet. Has anyone been successful at overturning a ban?[/QUOTE]Just open a new email account and signup with that account, new password and login. Register with the new email account.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2638177]So Kayla and I had a great few days together. Our fifth time and getting a bit more coupled up each time. We rented an Airbnb loft so it was more like playing house. There were some minuses. Like we stayed in a lot. She said she doesn't really like to go out. That she only does it because I like to. Boo. That's unfortunate to learn. But some nice pluses too like when she cooked dinner the second night and when she got more lit our third night and gave the best doe eyes BJ and was just really romantic and passionate. It's getting a little too comfortable but damn she still checks pretty much all the boxes.

But my favorite line was this:.[/QUOTE]Reminds me of that line from an Eagles song: Every form of refuge has its price.

Sure, that sounds good now, but after a few years, they all let themselves go and the sex becomes less and less. That is the typical route of marriage. There are always exceptions to the rule, but they are rare. There are just some girls that are real nice that like to take care of their man.

Since I wrote my guide early in my journey, I've updated a bit. Plus new readers here. So here's the way I play it.

So how do you do it properly? I suppose this could vary widely depending on what you are after. But I am after a girl who FEELS like a girlfriend. She's affectionate, appreciates an evening above her usual stature in life, and is able to actually enjoy herself with you. She views the allowance / gift (I. E. Money!) as a bonus. Not the only thing she is after. Any girl where I feel money is the primary motivation and she will go with anyone for a high enough price, gets kicked straight to the curb. She's got to be a girlfriend first, and any "benefits" come second.

Knowing that this is the kind of girl I want to attract (and other guys I have talked to also find this persona the most attractive), there is a set of rules you have to play by. Understand that SA is NOT AT ALL like picking up hookers. It is much more like meeting a girl in a bar and seducing her to leave with you. It's just an online bar. Sure you need money, but you also need some texting game and you need to treat her with respect. If you do, you have a chance of closing the deal. However, the moment you disrespect her, she will be gone.

The most important rule when vibing with a girl and getting a meeting set up is: never discuss sex or money. These things will be implied and they will be done offline. Never discuss sex or money on the Seeking Arrangements platform and really never discuss sex at all. As soon as you are that explicit, the kind of girl you are after will feel disrespected and ghost you in no time flat. Plus, it can get you booted from SA for life if you are reported. Don't worry, there are ways to have this conversation properly, explained below.

Start your engagement with a girl with some light chat and flirt. Your opener should be something specific to her that you read in her profile -- not something generic. And ALWAYS end every message with a question. This prompts her to respond. If you don't ask a question, she will not take the initiative and the conversation will just die. You have to drive it; and you drive with questions. Get her to tell you a few things about herself: what she likes to eat, her favorite wine, dog or cat person. It doesn't really matter what you discuss; just something that will get her to engage a bit.

At some point you will establish that you like each other reasonably well and one or the other will suggest taking the conversation off of SA and over to text. If she goes there in the first few exchanges, she is probably a hooker. If she doesn't ask for a pic pretty early on, she is probably a hooker. Often, I am the one to suggest going over to private phone text. You can keep it pretty innocuous, saying you notice she is not on often and it might be easier to connect up by text. But don't do it too early – this spooks the nice girls. Have a conversation over a few days and then take it off SA to texting.

Once you are texting, pick up the thread you had going and continue a little friendly chat. At some point, you will suggest that you think you vibe well and should meet up. Most often she will agree and now its time to establish that you will have sex (without saying it!) and how much is the agreed price (without saying it's a price! Some guys cover the price discussion in person, but I find that awkward and always set it ahead of time.

Once she's said "yeah, lets meetup" I say I want to describe our date to her (this is how I introduce the sex topic without getting explicit.) I usually say something about going out for dinner or drinks and having an epic time, laughing a lot and if the chemistry is right spending some private time (or intimate time or adult time -- insert your favorite euphemism -- but never say SEX!) or on the off chance we don't vibe, we can part after dinner no harm no foul. And ask if that sounds about right to them. Most often, if they are the kind of girl you are after, they will be down with this description and say, sure that sounds good.

This opens the door for the pricing discussion. I usually say something like "Of course I'the want to give you a gift / allowance. Did you have something in mind?" and the negotiation is underway. Never ever say "what's your price" or "how much do you charge for PPM". Always use the approach above, that you want to give them something. Sometimes, she will say she doesn't know and get you to give the first figure (good negotiating tactic on her part, but often they are in fact new). I am OK with this and say "well, what I've done before is 300. I hope that works for you. " (note no $ sign).

As far as what you should pay, I've found a strong correlation between what a pretty hooker charges for an hour (in a given city) to be what an SA girl will take for an evening. I'the say (pre-pandemic) most big US cities $400 is reasonable for a pretty girl (lots will ask more – I just kick them to the curb) with SF and NYC more like $500. In second tier cities, $300 should do it and I've found a few gems at $200 (though more in the 6-7 category). During the pandemic, I've found a lot of these girls are struggling, so if they ask 500, when 400 is more correct, I usually don't push them on it and just go with what they asked.

Once you have the "we are going to have sex, right" -- without saying it -- and money discussion out of the way, you should be good to go. Just keep on with the flirty texts without being too frequent, clingy or annoying and then meet up at the appointed day and time. More often than not, if you are not terribly objectionable looking, have a little bit of charm, and follow the "let's get out of here" model you might use with a regular pickup, you will end up in the room with your girl and have a rocking time.

Having done this alot (more than 30 times in many different cities), I've found that having sex on the first date is super important. The few times I've had a platonic date (especially a non-alcoholic one) to be followed by sex on the second date – it never happens. You have to take the momentum on that first date and take it all the way to the bedroom. Remember girls are submissive and will largely follow your lead – even if that lead is to the hotel room.

Finally, I should note that how much time you spend with her is largely up to her and how well you vibe. It's not something you negotiate, like you would with a hooker. Most times it will probably be 3-4 hours including dinner and sex, after which she might say she needs to get home. But, in my experience, about 50% of girls sleep over. It's not something you discuss. It just happens. You cuddle after sex and next thing you know she's taking off her necklace to the bedside table. Bingo!

Seeking is absolutely the best, if you take the time to find the gems amongst the bullshit and follow the above guide.

One thing I'd add. Meet them ASAP once the topic comes up. If you talk to them last night about meeting and confirm a meeting time / place at 10 am the dext day for 8 pm that night you have just given them 10 hours to find someone better looking, willing to pay more, bigger dick, whatever. If the topic of meeting comes up last night then meet her that night. I've been burnt by this a couple times and learned my lesson. I can't believe the quality of girls I'm getting to come over, just beautiful. My house and car are both panty droppers but I never discuss them, I let them see them for themselves and that closes the deal without having to say a thing. I've had girls tell me they don't sleep over but as soon as they walk in will say "I could totally crash here." Freaking brilliant! You do need some money though. You can't fake it with top teir girls.

Price ranges below are accurate as well. Any more than $600 and I'm out.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2639393]Since I wrote my guide early in my journey, I've updated a bit. Plus new readers here. So here's the way I play it.

So how do you do it properly? I suppose this could vary widely depending on what you are after. But I am after a girl who FEELS like a girlfriend. She's affectionate, appreciates an evening above her usual stature in life, and is able to actually enjoy herself with you. She views the allowance / gift (I. E. Money!) as a bonus. Not the only thing she is after. Any girl where I feel money is the primary motivation and she will go with anyone for a high enough price, gets kicked straight to the curb. She's got to be a girlfriend first, and any "benefits" come second.

Knowing that this is the kind of girl I want to attract (and other guys I have talked to also find this persona the most attractive), there is a set of rules you have to play by. Understand that SA is NOT AT ALL like picking up hookers. It is much more like meeting a girl in a bar and seducing her to leave with you. It's just an online bar. Sure you need money, but you also need some texting game and you need to treat her with respect. If you do, you have a chance of closing the deal. However, the moment you disrespect her, she will be gone.

The most important rule when vibing with a girl and getting a meeting set up is: never discuss sex or money. These things will be implied and they will be done offline. Never discuss sex or money on the Seeking Arrangements platform and really never discuss sex at all. As soon as you are that explicit, the kind of girl you are after will feel disrespected and ghost you in no time flat..[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2639393]Since I wrote my guide early in my journey, I've updated a bit. Plus new readers here. So here's the way I play it.

So how do you do it properly? I suppose this could vary widely depending on what you are after. But I am after a girl who FEELS like a girlfriend. She's affectionate, appreciates an evening above her usual stature in life, and is able to actually enjoy herself with you. She views the allowance / gift (I. E. Money!) as a bonus. Not the only thing she is after. Any girl where I feel money is the primary motivation and she will go with anyone for a high enough price, gets kicked straight to the curb. She's got to be a girlfriend first, and any "benefits" come second.

Knowing that this is the kind of girl I want to attract (and other guys I have talked to also find this persona the most attractive), there is a set of rules you have to play by. Understand that SA is NOT AT ALL like picking up hookers. It is much more like meeting a girl in a bar and seducing her to leave with you. It's just an online bar. Sure you need money, but you also need some texting game and you need to treat her with respect. If you do, you have a chance of closing the deal. However, the moment you disrespect her, she will be gone.

The most important rule when vibing with a girl and getting a meeting set up is: never discuss sex or money. These things will be implied and they will be done offline. Never discuss sex or money on the Seeking Arrangements platform and really never discuss sex at all. As soon as you are that explicit, the kind of girl you are after will feel disrespected and ghost you in no time flat. Plus, it can get you booted from SA for life if you are reported. Don't worry, there are ways to have this conversation properly, explained below.

Start your engagement with a girl with some light chat and flirt. Your opener should be something specific to her that you read in her profile -- not something generic. And ALWAYS end every message with a question. This prompts her to respond. If you don't ask a question, she will not take the initiative and the conversation will just die. You have to drive it; and you drive with questions. Get her to tell you a few things about herself: what she likes to eat, her favorite wine, dog or cat person. It doesn't really matter what you discuss; just something that will get her to engage a bit.

At some point you will establish that you like each other reasonably well and one or the other will suggest taking the conversation off of SA and over to text. If she goes there in the first few exchanges, she is probably a hooker. If she doesn't ask for a pic pretty early on, she is probably a hooker. Often, I am the one to suggest going over to private phone text. You can keep it pretty innocuous, saying you notice she is not on often and it might be easier to connect up by text. But don't do it too early this spooks the nice girls. Have a conversation over a few days and then take it off SA to texting.

Once you are texting, pick up the thread you had going and continue a little friendly chat. At some point, you will suggest that you think you vibe well and should meet up. Most often she will agree and now its time to establish that you will have sex (without saying it!) and how much is the agreed price (without saying it's a price! Some guys cover the price discussion in person, but I find that awkward and always set it ahead of time.

Once she's said "yeah, lets meetup" I say I want to describe our date to her (this is how I introduce the sex topic without getting explicit.) I usually say something about going out for dinner or drinks and having an epic time, laughing a lot and if the chemistry is right spending some private time (or intimate time or adult time -- insert your favorite euphemism -- but never say SEX!) or on the off chance we don't vibe, we can part after dinner no harm no foul. And ask if that sounds about right to them. Most often, if they are the kind of girl you are after, they will be down with this description and say, sure that sounds good.

This opens the door for the pricing discussion. I usually say something like "Of course I'the want to give you a gift / allowance. Did you have something in mind?" and the negotiation is underway. Never ever say "what's your price" or "how much do you charge for PPM". Always use the approach above, that you want to give them something. Sometimes, she will say she doesn't know and get you to give the first figure (good negotiating tactic on her part, but often they are in fact new). I am OK with this and say "well, what I've done before is 300. I hope that works for you. " (note no $ sign).

As far as what you should pay, I've found a strong correlation between what a pretty hooker charges for an hour (in a given city) to be what an SA girl will take for an evening. I'the say (pre-pandemic) most big US cities $400 is reasonable for a pretty girl (lots will ask more I just kick them to the curb) with SF and NYC more like $500. In second tier cities, $300 should do it and I've found a few gems at $200 (though more in the 6-7 category). During the pandemic, I've found a lot of these girls are struggling, so if they ask 500, when 400 is more correct, I usually don't push them on it and just go with what they asked.

Once you have the "we are going to have sex, right" -- without saying it -- and money discussion out of the way, you should be good to go. Just keep on with the flirty texts without being too frequent, clingy or annoying and then meet up at the appointed day and time. More often than not, if you are not terribly objectionable looking, have a little bit of charm, and follow the "let's get out of here" model you might use with a regular pickup, you will end up in the room with your girl and have a rocking time.

Having done this alot (more than 30 times in many different cities), I've found that having sex on the first date is super important. The few times I've had a platonic date (especially a non-alcoholic one) to be followed by sex on the second date it never happens. You have to take the momentum on that first date and take it all the way to the bedroom. Remember girls are submissive and will largely follow your lead even if that lead is to the hotel room.

Finally, I should note that how much time you spend with her is largely up to her and how well you vibe. It's not something you negotiate, like you would with a hooker. Most times it will probably be 3-4 hours including dinner and sex, after which she might say she needs to get home. But, in my experience, about 50% of girls sleep over. It's not something you discuss. It just happens. You cuddle after sex and next thing you know she's taking off her necklace to the bedside table. Bingo!

Seeking is absolutely the best, if you take the time to find the gems amongst the bullshit and follow the above guide.[/QUOTE]This is a great report and has many valuable tips. I have been on SA for a couple of years now and have found a few gems. I use a similar approach and never say sex, ppm, words of wisdom. Use words like gift, allowance for time, compensation, etc.

So some of you may recall Layla from last year. We met in August 2020 and were pretty regular throughout the last year till April. Kinda heavy but that face. OMG. It slays me. Fucking her while she smiles a thousand watt smile and stares deep into your eyes is really legendary.

Anyhow she became gainfully employed and impossibly busy. We've had three failed meetups since April. And frankly I was pretty frustrated. Of course I saw other girls. But circumstances change. Her restaurant shutdown for the winter and I guess that leads to monetary needs! Because guess who's interested in getting regular again? We met up recently and honestly it was awesome. She’s lost weight, she's working hard to please me and she looks dynamite.

Moral of the story? Always keep girls on the roster. A lot don't have the steadiest employment and when that fades you are suddenly the most interesting man in the world! LOL. Anyhow enjoying it while It lasts.

Without telling me any more than you need to Steve. Is Kayla a stage name and are you paying or did you negotiate down from a 4 digit ppm ask? A Kayla has her hooks in me tight and it's a double stage name, she's got the profile name, the first meet name, and the real name when consummated. Just wondering if we're the same instrument being played by a master. Mine has no issue going out as she's fairly new to the area so she's not going to run into anyone she knows. But God damn do I want to give her my entire allowance. What an angel of a girl.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2641299]So some of you may recall Layla from last year. We met in August 2020 and were pretty regular throughout the last year till April. Kinda heavy but that face. OMG. It slays me. Fucking her while she smiles a thousand watt smile and stares deep into your eyes is really legendary.

Anyhow she became gainfully employed and impossibly busy. We've had three failed meetups since April. And frankly I was pretty frustrated. Of course I saw other girls. But circumstances change. Her restaurant shutdown for the winter and I guess that leads to monetary needs! Because guess who's interested in getting regular again? We met up recently and honestly it was awesome. Shes lost weight, she's working hard to please me and she looks dynamite.

Moral of the story? Always keep girls on the roster. A lot don't have the steadiest employment and when that fades you are suddenly the most interesting man in the world! LOL. Anyhow enjoying it while It lasts.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=FilthyBeaver;2641310]Without telling me any more than you need to Steve. Is Kayla a stage name and are you paying or did you negotiate down from a 4 digit ppm ask? A Kayla has her hooks in me tight and it's a double stage name, she's got the profile name, the first meet name, and the real name when consummated. Just wondering if we're the same instrument being played by a master. Mine has no issue going out as she's fairly new to the area so she's not going to run into anyone she knows. But God damn do I want to give her my entire allowance. What an angel of a girl.[/QUOTE]Haha No not same. Kayla isn't even her stage name. When I post on ISG I always make up a name close enough that I will not forget. So Kayla is totally NOT the girl I am seeing. Totally made up that name.

Thanks, not sure if that's relief or not. LOL.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2641351]Haha No not same. Kayla isn't even her stage name. When I post on ISG I always make up a name close enough that I will not forget. So Kayla is totally NOT the girl I am seeing. Totally made up that name.[/QUOTE]

The cost of a SA membership seems to be constantly rising. I don't think the product is getting better. I have some ideas why it may be happening. But I would like any opinions people want to share.

[QUOTE=Akibono;2641849]The cost of a SA membership seems to be constantly rising. I don't think the product is getting better. I have some ideas why it may be happening. But I would like any opinions people want to share.[/QUOTE]Agree. More of the women are not even in the same local. And those in the same local only want to sell pictures, have an online arrangement, or get paid before meeting them- they want to know the man is sincere, their time is worth a lot more than yours, and on and on and on. Last time I subscribed for a month I met one scammer only.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2631708]ML, I think you need to understand what SA is fighting and what American law is. Prostitution is the exchange of anything of value for sex or the expectation of sex. The goal then should be to offer up money but not directly doing so and try to morph your exchange into something that a potential boyfriend may do with a potential girlfriend. Also, do not offer to fly a woman or pay for travel on the first meet as that could be seen as trafficking.e.[/QUOTE]Elvis and others: there is a person (I have met her) who uses SA to find SD for selling them dates, taking them along with the girls either she has ino on or girl in your personal SA account. She will send you "Manager Documents" Real name is Hosnellys Stukerman from Venezueals [EMAIL]nelly5496@gmail.com[/EMAIL].

Elvis and others: there is a person (I have met her) who uses SA to find SD's for selling them on dates, taking them along with the girls either she has info on file or get them from girls in your personal SA account. She asks for your SA account and and password She will send you "Manager Documents" for this info and much more. Real name is Hosnellys Stukerman from Venezuela [EMAIL]nelly5496@gmail.com[/EMAIL] I have her phone (maybe still active) she claims to be an attorney. She has more than one SA account. Currently it's Tmanager she is very good looking and believable. My friend says she is a good kisser. LOL Well she does charge $15/ hour to impersonate you and make dates for you from your SA contacts. Then she will call them herself and pimp them out later on. In some ways all this is ok in Colombia but not calling and destroying my credibility with the many girls I had spent a time talking to before my trip to Medellin. Her advice included things like, "say you will take them on a trip and pay them $600/ day" she also tried to get "investors" for a business doing this. Or other busine to open a tour company. All BS LOL and asked another ISG member for $. In Colombia half the cab drivers are pimps or tour guides so it's not that uncommon or even a big deal when you know what you are getting. . but they don't know how to access SA for girls numbers and leads. Anyone wants her photo or her "contract forms" let me know. This all happened in July & August. A lot more details, like what I gave her (scmed from me) etc. I just found a new account of here so I am posting. Just beware.

[QUOTE=NeilGeorge;2642074]Agree. More of the women are not even in the same local. And those in the same local only want to sell pictures, have an online arrangement, or get paid before meeting them- they want to know the man is sincere, their time is worth a lot more than yours, and on and on and on. Last time I subscribed for a month I met one scammer only.[/QUOTE]SA has the marked cornered, so they can do what they want, unfortunately. As far as scams there is a lot in America, but no where as many in Mexico. I usually get a couple of girls from Colombia or Russian writing daily. It is fairly easy to spot now. Instant block for the Colombian Chicas.

I am having the best time of my life thanks to SA, I am heading back to CDMX late Christmas night. I have been there 3 of the last 4 weekends. I am averaging 2-3 sessions daily. I have accomplished this in a short period of time. I am still figuring out the city. I will make CDMX my second home. I will bust ass working in America for 10-12 days, then the 4-5 days in M. City, I can work remotely a few days. The best of both worlds.

Plus I will be flying out of MTY, much cheaper, no covid requirement and I can spend one night with the model. So good.

Dedicated to Elvis, the man in love. I am happy for you unlike some of the other guys. I did invite the model to move to CDMX. I told her I would take care of the apartment and other expenses, plus she would get an allowance, but she had to work. We have been together for over 1.5 years, I do love her and she love me, but we can not cross the finish line. She does have major family issues, very controlling parents. We will see what happens.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2637751]I am glad you are having a great time. Thing is that the average income in Mexico City is the same as a lot of the USA. What that means is not only are there a lot of hot and worldly women, they are often in high demand because there are so many men with money.

Of the four tens I met in CDMX, I followed them on Instagram. Three of the four moved sideways after meeting me (and that is not typical with the SBs I have had), and one hit the absolute jackpot.

My point is that you have to lock them down much more quickly in CDMX than other Mexican cities or in Colombia. I do not think there is a woman I met in MTY or Colombia I could not call up and see again, but I think I would be given the cold shoulder if I approached any of these four. They are taken.[/QUOTE]In this country women are more educated and marrying late in life is a possibility. No so in CDMX. Youth and beauty are a perishable commodity. Plus they are in competition with other women. Both the men and women know this. Thus, there is tremendous pressure to marry up early. A young woman is always hunting in those countries. What is true everywhere is dating is fun while marriage means work.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2642350]Dedicated to Elvis, the man in love. I am happy for you unlike some of the other guys. I did invite the model to move to CDMX. I told her I would take care of the apartment and other expenses, plus she would get an allowance, but she had to work. We have been together for over 1.5 years, I do love her and she love me, but we can not cross the finish line. She does have major family issues, very controlling parents. We will see what happens.[/QUOTE]DF, we set up the apartment in Cartagena to my and her liking. I can tell she is happy to be back there as it is her original home and free from the cold of Bogota.

It is funny what is lacking in Colombia, sheets with Egyptian cotton for one, so I bought some and brought them down. I found a synthetic couch to make up for the lack of leather ones there. It is nice. I found a device so I can watch sports and my shows when I am there. I do not know why anyone has cable with this available: [URL]https://www.walmart.com/ip/Octastream-Q1-Pro-Plus-FREE-KEYBOARD-REMOTE-INCLUDED/564178196[/URL] I even found a way to make real salsa. Colombian hot sauce is like ketchup.

Last trip was first time I got to know her daughter. [blue][Deleted by Admin][/blue] It would not surprise me if she ends up 5 feet 10 like her mother. We are going to be fending off the men like crazy. When asked to do something, I think she said no more often than my son has in his first 22 years on this planet. I have always lived in a house of boys and how I handle things with her will be interesting. But I like her, and she likes me. For now. LOL.

I wrote this for the Tijuana section, but I think it is better that I post it here. I hope things work out with you and your lady.

If you are married or newly divorced, just getting new pussy is great. But having sex with a woman whose clothes are on a second after you climaxed running in shame towards the door? Ugh. I want a woman in my arms after sex happy that she fucked me.

After my engagement broke off, I dove into other foreign lands, upped my game, was doing the sugar baby thing and doing well. Life was great, and I was totally content in the SB world doubtful I would leave it.

It is when you are sure things will never change that they do. What do you do when a 10 type totally falls for you, fucks the shit out of you and asks for nothing? I get part of what Kool Beans is asking. Is this really real? After a while you accept it is, and ask what next? How do you go from SD or john to BF?

For the woman, it is easier. You show the guy your love by not asking him for much money. The guy has to understand the woman hates asking for it, and you are not paying for pussy but to make someone happy. If you pay too little, she may go outside for cash. Give her too much and she is spoiled. Did you notice no one here said that if KB's girl is looking for outside cash, he should give her more?

If you are an American guy, you are no doubt making more than she is, and if you want her available to you, you have to pay for her to not work. You do not have to, but you are not going to see her much if you do not. If she does take on work, she would have to understand (and this may be hard for her) that you count more than her job.

Then there is the family. Sure, they are close, but Nana Maria and Uncle Jose really need money help. You check it out and their needs are legit, and it is not so much, but you're questioning if they are pimping out your woman, and the answer is yeah, they kind of are. That is the price of a close family, and you want them on your side in a conflict. No one in your family will want anything from her which is unfair but that is how it works.

KB does not want to be played, and he is afraid he is missing something but most guys here are going to say he is a fool. What he needs to do is only talk to guys who have had this happen to them or better yet, talk to women. Women will size up his chick and situation better than we ever will.

So why do it? It is not sex. GF sex is way better than ho sex, but sugar baby and GF sex IMO are equal. The answer is your happiness is not based on pleasure from things like sex but other people. If you are with a woman who makes you happy, it is crazy to end it, and you should be with her.

I hear guys talk themselves out of the 10 types all the time. The Barbie doll wants a Ken doll they say. But the 10's themselves are never asked and so many do not want Ken.

Once I was with a courtesan, a true 10 in bed and with looks and got paid as such. We had finished our amazing session. She told me that she was going to go out on the town. I said she was going to see the hunky suave men she really wanted to. She had already been paid, had a waiting list weeks long, and she stopped right there, looked at me dead serious and said "When I go out and try to meet men, I am looking to meet men just like you. " What she said really changed my life. At first, it was just that I was in love with the idea not sure it was true. 10 years later I realized she was telling me the truth and I acted as such.

The surest way to have a 10 not fall for you is to believe it is impossible.

Happy holidays everyone!

Steve, thanks for sharing your guiding SA principles. I know how much you love the tutes (especially Brazilian ones just like me). But, I've decided to look into SA starting in 2022. One thing I would like to know is this. Typically how many duds do you have to wade through before you find one girl that you vibe well enough with that you end up bedding her? I know this is something we all have to work at, but you seem to enjoy yourself, and you've been successful. So give me a rough number of how many encounters on average for you to find a gem who delivers the kind of experience you're looking for. Is it 10,15, or 20? More? Please keep it real.

Also, I really don't like sending pictures around to people on the internet I don't know. So, how do you think the girls would react if I suggested that we switched to WhatsApp or something like that, and that I would be willing to do a video chat as soon as they were comfortable with that? I think I could have some success with this thing, and I'm tired of waiting for international travel to open up again. I don't look my age (look 10 to 15 years younger), I'm in decent shape, and I get what I like (white college girls) flirting with me all the time. One even called me her "daddy" one time LOL! Probably just angling to get free drinks LOLOLOL!

Oh, and I realize that anal is probably out of the question damn near 100% of the time hahaha! That's OK though, that's OK! Because remember, if I'm drilling that booty hole on the tutes 70% of the time, [B]Im hitting that pussy 100% of the time[/B]!

Good luck boys. That site was a blast but it's more time than I have (to get the best results) and I would be more than happy to have one of the 3 I have on the line for several years once I finally make a decision.

[QUOTE=TheCane;2642781]Steve, thanks for sharing your guiding SA principles. I know how much you love the tutes (especially Brazilian ones just like me). But, I've decided to look into SA starting in 2022. One thing I would like to know is this. Typically how many duds do you have to wade through before you find one girl that you vibe well enough with that you end up bedding her? I know this is something we all have to work at, but you seem to enjoy yourself, and you've been successful. So give me a rough number of how many encounters on average for you to find a gem who delivers the kind of experience you're looking for. Is it 10,15, or 20? More? Please keep it real.

Also, I really don't like sending pictures around to people on the internet I don't know. So, how do you think the girls would react if I suggested that we switched to WhatsApp or something like that, and that I would be willing to do a video chat as soon as they were comfortable with that? I think I could have some success with this thing, and I'm tired of waiting for international travel to open up again. I don't look my age (look 10 to 15 years younger), I'm in decent shape, and I get what I like (white college girls) flirting with me all the time. One even called me her "daddy" one time LOL! Probably just angling to get free drinks LOLOLOL!

Oh, and I realize that anal is probably out of the question damn near 100% of the time hahaha! That's OK though, that's OK! Because remember, if I'm drilling that booty hole on the tutes 70% of the time, [B]Im hitting that pussy 100% of the time[/B]![/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=TheCane;2642781]Steve, thanks for sharing your guiding SA principles. I know how much you love the tutes (especially Brazilian ones just like me). But, I've decided to look into SA starting in 2022. One thing I would like to know is this. Typically how many duds do you have to wade through before you find one girl that you vibe well enough with that you end up bedding her? I know this is something we all have to work at, but you seem to enjoy yourself, and you've been successful. So give me a rough number of how many encounters on average for you to find a gem who delivers the kind of experience you're looking for. Is it 10,15, or 20? More? Please keep it real.

Also, I really don't like sending pictures around to people on the internet I don't know. So, how do you think the girls would react if I suggested that we switched to WhatsApp or something like that, and that I would be willing to do a video chat as soon as they were comfortable with that? I think I could have some success with this thing, and I'm tired of waiting for international travel to open up again. I don't look my age (look 10 to 15 years younger), I'm in decent shape, and I get what I like (white college girls) flirting with me all the time. One even called me her "daddy" one time LOL! Probably just angling to get free drinks LOLOLOL!

Oh, and I realize that anal is probably out of the question damn near 100% of the time hahaha! That's OK though, that's OK! Because remember, if I'm drilling that booty hole on the tutes 70% of the time, [B]Im hitting that pussy 100% of the time[/B]![/QUOTE]I believe you are asking my stats for when I have them out on the town. So success is very very good for evening dates. Havent done the math but something like 85% success for sex once out on the date. But most importantly it's because of how I pick them in the first place. There has to be fun texting with real engagement on her part. There is that dialog where I put sex on the table without saying it. And we have a set price so no surprise. All this leadup is key.

Once the date is on, I've found dinner and drinks and sex the first night to be the thing that works for me. I'm only 1 for 4 in coffee and lunch dates (tho the one was Layla) but 27 for 31 having sex from a night date with all but two of these full sex the first night (one I eked out a BJ she was not expecting to end up In a hotel room LOL and one a passionate kiss first date and bareback sex on second date).

Obviously ymmv and recall I do not like white girls so much as you do so my pool is deeper. But I am sure you will have success. It's as much about charm and laughter at the dinner table as it is being good looking.

Here is my ethnicity and occupations scorecard a few dates old but close enough.

Blackish 8.

Latina 11.

Asian 4.

White 4.

Middle Eastern 2.

College student Waitress Stripper Cust Service Yoga Instructor Office Manager Receptionist Care Giver Maid.

Ps Yes fine to go over to text to exchange pics. That’s what I do. I’d say only about 10% of girls have WhatsApp tho. Gonna more likely be vanilla text.

Lot of inspiration reading your posts. Now I am thinking of signing up for SA membership. I am new to the SA and planning a trip to CDMX in Jan. Or Feb. If it clicks, I may travel frequently.

I am 50 year and average looking Asian Indian guy.

Is cdmx is easy to score on SA? I am only into 18 to 22 year olds with no kids petite etc.

Any tops and suggestions?

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2642350]SA has the marked cornered, so they can do what they want, unfortunately. As far as scams there is a lot in America, but no where as many in Mexico. I usually get a couple of girls from Colombia or Russian writing daily. It is fairly easy to spot now. Instant block for the Colombian Chicas.

I am having the best time of my life thanks to SA, I am heading back to CDMX late Christmas night. I have been there 3 of the last 4 weekends. I am averaging 2-3 sessions daily. I have accomplished this in a short period of time. I am still figuring out the city. I will make CDMX my second home. I will bust ass working in America for 10-12 days, then the 4-5 days in M. City, I can work remotely a few days. The best of both worlds.

Plus I will be flying out of MTY, much cheaper, no covid requirement and I can spend one night with the model. So good..[/QUOTE]

It's addressed to Steve who admittedly has more experience but I want to contribute to this.

SA is a colossal waste of time as with most efforts that involve high value results, diamond / asteroid / gold mining, those sand pictures that Tibetan monks make, Trump's wall, etc.

That said, the results have been inarguable for me and I am now a believer. Will not consider anything less than a 9; my time, my money, my fantasy. I'll drop to an 8 mongering in any corner of the planet but when I'm at home it's the best or nothing. I'm not desperate so I'll hold out for what I want.

Had two 1 month stints one year apart. First was normal membership, second was diamond. Normal membership was a complete waste of time. Met 3 in person, none of whom looked like their profile pics, had an arrangement with 1 for about 3 months but nothing spectacular more about the novelty. To get to those 3 I sifted through hours and hours of profiles, fakers, being stood up, etc. Massive time waste and I'm a fairly busy person. Almost no one contacted me, I had to initiate almost always with negative results.

Second was far more interesting. 1 mo diamond membership. I had 50+ a day come to me for the first two weeks then slowed quite a bit. I literally spent 4-5 hrs / day going through them and communicating. Most were garbage profiles from pick a poor country on the planet or "rich" US cities but were easy to spot and block. I was sniped fairly regularly by really attractive college aged girls who don't allow their profiles to be found but they'll contact you when something catches their eye. Frankly I was and still am shocked at the quality of girls that I've found, in the best way possible. Cute, girl next door, can have anyone she wants and knows it but is sitting in my house telling me how great it would be to hang out there for several hours a few times a month.

Your Questions:

Duds. Tons, 90% Or, I'd have an otherwise great conversation for 30 min, not say anything remotely controversial or piss her off and she disappeared never to be seen again. These are the worst because they take up the most time. So of the 700 girls I contacted or contacted me. Maybe 10-15 turned into real actionable conversations where a meeting was discussed let alone sex. Again, 9+ for me and these girls are not prostitutes so you may need to meet them twice before you see anything interesting and I wouldn't pay anything until that time. I'm fine with this because I want a mental connection, real or not I don't care but getting my rocks off in an hour or two does not interest me (especially at SA prices!) Too many other cheaper and more convenient ways to do that if I that's the goal. These college girls are charming, ambitious, and driven. Also really independent. I've met 6 in person so far and they all have those traits in common. A flashy car is not enough to get their attention, also they don't really care about gifts. They have goals and those goals need to be funded. I meet the 7th today (a 20's Dr according to her, chemistry has been incredible chatting; we chatted for almost 3 hrs yesterday and yes, I believe she is a Dr as I have an advanced degree and it's hard to hold my attention that long on a fuckin phone). 4 in my home town. 3 in other countries. They are all gorgeous and total GF material but I am not a juggler, I'm looking for 1 with incredible chemistry but haven't had sex with all yet to make a decision. The 3 in other countries are a different situation so it's less about the long game but I was up front about it and it hasn't been a problem. I met one in a foreign country for what was supposed to be dinner and extras but she ended up going home after 12 hours the next morning. * She curled up next to me after about 2. 5 straight hours of going through my whole playbook and I was in heaven. My lips were sore all next day because she couldn't suck on my lips enough. I'd pull away and she'd come right back at me for hours.

Pics. Going to change this topic slightly. So what was the difference between my first stint and my second stint? Diamond makes a difference. If I were a girl looking for reliable funds I wouldn't give someone the time of day with the cheapest profile type. A fast food worker can afford standard. Also I used real pics that were unhidden. Shows them I'm not playing games. Yes it's personally risky but I wanted results and I got them in spades. Also, my profile was extremely detailed. I put what I wanted, what was important to me, what I was willing to do as far as specific situations I was willing to assist with (not actual numbers) and what she needed to look like. I got tons of feedback telling me how they appreciated how easy it was to figure out if they were a match with me due to the level of detail I put out there. As far as moving to another app, if that doesn't come up in the first 10 lines she's probably a time waster. The serious ones are ready to move forward immediately. The lag on that stupid app is frustrating as hell when you're trying to text real time and you can't discuss specifics without risking being banned. So move forward, if she won't give you her number or ID for whatever app you're using. Move on. I had no issue giving my real number to anyone and I've got pages of sms texts and pictures to show for it.

My dating life has been insane the last month. I have enough contacts and backup contacts I can mine for several months so I let my account lapse and deleted it already. Overall I'm really happy with how I played it and the results I got.

Also this might help. There are 5 types of agenda on that site.

Party girls. Looking for a good time "luxury lifestyle" and a bunch of overpriced shit in their closet.

Desperate girls. Drug addicts & single moms.

Time wasters. Their "friend" told them about the site and they're "trying it out".

Delusional girls. Expect someone to "keep" them.

Goal driven - (my fav) college costs x, rent is why, I make a, and I need be. I have no issue at all helping girls like this. I don't think it's reasonable to expect something tangible not change hands in a relationship where the parties are so far off from an economic perspective. If you're looking to get laid for the cheapest price this really isn't the place. There are exceptions to everything so don't tell me how you got a 10 for a bag of pasta and a can of tomato sauce. I don't care. But I've found some real legit wife material here. Just girls without the means and no help from family. There's nothing wrong in my book using what you've got to get what you want and I admire them for their courage.

Good luck boys. That site was a blast but it's more time than I have (to get the best results) and I would be more than happy to have one of the 3 I have on the line for several years once I finally make a decision. They are all stunner trophy material.

[QUOTE=TheCane;2642781]Steve, thanks for sharing your guiding SA principles. I know how much you love the tutes (especially Brazilian ones just like me). But, I've decided to look into SA starting in 2022. One thing I would like to know is this. Typically how many duds do you have to wade through before you find one girl that you vibe well enough with that you end up bedding her? I know this is something we all have to work at, but you seem to enjoy yourself, and you've been successful. So give me a rough number of how many encounters on average for you to find a gem who delivers the kind of experience you're looking for. Is it 10,15, or 20? More? Please keep it real.

Also, I really don't like sending pictures around to people on the internet I don't know. So, how do you think the girls would react if I suggested that we switched to WhatsApp or something like that, and that I would be willing to do a video chat as soon as they were comfortable with that? I think I could have some success with this thing, and I'm tired of waiting for international travel to open up again.[/QUOTE]

Hello seniors,

Just made an account and logged in to ask you experienced folk the correct price and acceptable deviations for some arrangements I seek to make on the seeking website.

1. Monthly live in girlfriend arrangement in Medellin (leased car situation).

2. Monthly live in girlfriend arrangement in Bogota.

3. Monthly live in girlfriend arrangement in Sao paolo.

4. Monthly live in girlfriend arrangement in Rio.

5. Monthly live in girlfriend arrangement in CIS region.

6. Correct amount to pay a travelling companion.

Background- am a 38 yo small businessman, on a break for an year. I will be travelling parts of South America and Europe and I intend to "monger" as people seem to call it here. I do not like one night stands but instead prefer to get a relationship feel by hiring talent on a monthly basis, and retaining or letting go on basis of performance. I keep semi-pros in a live in situation. It has worked for me in my country and I hope it would work in these countries too considering that they are much more sexually liberated.

I am currently in Bogota and have contacted several girls who have asked amounts in vicinity of 10000 Usd a month. While I am open to paying that sum if it guarantees a good GF experience, I do not like being ripped off / feeling ripped off / ruining the market.

So I would request the more experienced gentlemen to post their experiences and correct valuations.

I am on my 4th visit to CDMX since Thanksgiving. I love it here, stay in Polanco and you can walk everywhere another plus. The food, style, culture, service and the girls are amazing.

I am busy trying to learn as much about the city and meet as much girls as possible before I get busy at work again. I will be here ever 2nd weekend, but I will be working a lot then, but no complaints, just a totally cool place. Not cheap, but that keeps a lot of the S. Tourists out, so that is a huge advantage.

I have had way more cancelations and no-shows then MTY, but that is OK, I am learning from my mistakes.

I had a crazy experience today. I am scheduled to meet a girl at 3 pm, I text her a 2:45 she says that she is already at the restaurant and has already ordered food. Ok, weird, but not a big deal, but my guard definitely went up. I was a little mad, but it is the Holidays and I am in CDMX. I show up and she has been there for awhile, I ask her how long to response, at that point I almost walked off. I calm down, and order some food. Conversation was ok, but she was an artist, this is Huge Red Flag for me. Any way we finish lunch, I ask her about SA, but she blows off the question and says she like Older Guys. I suggested going for a walk and that point she say she wants to go home with me, I said ok, but then I thought twice and said, no. I offered to pay for the cab, but she refused. We said good bye, I am pretty sure she blocked me immediately and I did the same.

I am meeting a girl tonight for the 3rd time. College student and works in Law Firm. Beautiful, smart and fun, I love it here, a new home.

DF, we set up the apartment in Cartagena to my and her liking. I can tell she is happy to be back there as it is her original home and free from the cold of Bogota.

It is funny what is lacking in Colombia, sheets with Egyptian cotton for one, so I bought some and brought them down. I found a synthetic couch to make up for the lack of leather ones there. It is nice. I found a device so I can watch sports and my shows when I am there. I do not know why anyone has cable with this available: I even found a way to make real salsa. Colombian hot sauce is like ketchup.

Last trip was first time I got to know her daughter. ] It would not surprise me if she ends up 5 feet 10 like her mother. We are going to be fending off the men like crazy. When asked to do something, I think she said no more often than my son has in his first 22 years on this planet. I have always lived in a house of boys and how I handle things with her will be interesting. But I like her, and she likes me. For now. LOL.

I wrote this for the Tijuana section, but I think it is better that I post it here. I hope things work out with you and your lady.

If you are married or newly divorced, just getting new pussy is great. But having sex with a woman whose clothes are on a second after you climaxed running in shame towards the door? Ugh. I want a woman in my arms after sex happy that she fucked me.

After my engagement broke off, I dove into other foreign lands, upped my game, was doing the sugar baby thing and doing well. Life was great, and I was totally content in the SB world doubtful I would leave it.

It is when you are sure things will never change that they do. What do you do when a 10 type totally falls for you, fucks the shit out of you and asks for nothing? I get part of what Kool Beans is asking. Is this really real? After a while you accept it is, and ask what next? How do you go from SD or john to BF?

For the woman, it is easier. You show the guy your love by not asking him for much money. The guy has to understand the woman hates asking for it, and you are not paying for pussy but to make someone happy. If you pay too little, she may go outside for cash. Give her too much and she is spoiled. Did you notice no one here said that if KB's girl is looking for outside cash, he should give her more?

If you are an American guy, you are no doubt making more than she is, and if you want her available to you, you have to pay for her to not work. You do not have to, but you are not going to see her much if you do not. If she does take on work, she would have to understand (and this may be hard for her) that you count more than her job.

Then there is the family. Sure, they are close, but Nana Maria and Uncle Jose really need money help. You check it out and their needs are legit, and it is not so much, but you're questioning if they are pimping out your woman, and the answer is yeah, they kind of are. That is the price of a close family, and you want them on your side in a conflict. No one in your family will want anything from her which is unfair but that is how it works.

KB does not want to be played, and he is afraid he is missing something but most guys here are going to say he is a fool. What he needs to do is only talk to guys who have had this happen to them or better yet, talk to women. Women will size up his chick and situation better than we ever will.

So why do it? It is not sex. GF sex is way better than ho sex, but sugar baby and GF sex IMO are equal. The answer is your happiness is not based on pleasure from things like sex but other people. If you are with a woman who makes you happy, it is crazy to end it, and you should be with her.

I hear guys talk themselves out of the 10 types all the time. The Barbie doll wants a Ken doll they say. But the 10's themselves are never asked and so many do not want Ken.

Once I was with a courtesan, a true 10 in bed and with looks and got paid as such. We had finished our amazing session. She told me that she was going to go out on the town. I said she was going to see the hunky suave men she really wanted to. She had already been paid, had a waiting list weeks long, and she stopped right there, looked at me dead serious and said "When I go out and try to meet men, I am looking to meet men just like you. " What she said really changed my life. At first, it was just that I was in love with the idea not sure it was true. 10 years later I realized she was telling me the truth and I acted as such.

The surest way to have a 10 not fall for you is to believe it is impossible.

Happy holidays everyone.

My girl is amazing, but her family situation is complicated. Her family does not need money, in fact her dad is kind of famous in the Science Community. We will see what happens.

I which the best for you and your girlfriend. It is very sad that there is a handful of guys actively routing for guys to fail. KB is different story, I am out of that love story. All I can say is my girl is no drama at all, in fact she is the opposite. Time will tell. I think we will remain life long friends no matter what happens.

Yo Cane,

I know you were asking Steve, but I hope my stats on SA are another helpful data point.

When I was active on SA in the USA, I spent at least 20 hours each week on the website. No exaggeration. During a 20 month period, I probably contacted five to ten thousand gals, conversed with one or two thousand on the site or on text, and met about a hundred in-person. I eventually had relations with about two dozen SBs.

So, yeah, if one is looking for a quick hookup, then SA in the USA may be a waste of time. BUT, if you ENJOY the search, and are patient, then it can be fun and you can find some gems. For me, having one gem per month, despite over a hundred hours of work per month, was worth it, but at that time. I think I really enjoyed the novelty at the time. Would I do it again today? Not sure.

BTW, I agree with 99% of what Steve says and recommends. But one main difference between me and him, when it comes to SA, is that I don't text the girls that much. There were too many occasions where we had great chemistry on text, but not in person. And so, my strategy was to text a few times only and then suggest a meetup. Some of them wanted to keep texting, but I told them that chemistry is everything to me, and I can only tell if there's chemistry by meeting in-person. Of course, I lost a lot of girls' interests this way, but so be it.

[QUOTE=TheCane;2642781]Steve, thanks for sharing your guiding SA principles. I know how much you love the tutes (especially Brazilian ones just like me). But, I've decided to look into SA starting in 2022. One thing I would like to know is this. Typically how many duds do you have to wade through before you find one girl that you vibe well enough with that you end up bedding her? I know this is something we all have to work at, but you seem to enjoy yourself, and you've been successful. So give me a rough number of how many encounters on average for you to find a gem who delivers the kind of experience you're looking for. Is it 10,15, or 20? More? Please keep it real.

Also, I really don't like sending pictures around to people on the internet I don't know. So, how do you think the girls would react if I suggested that we switched to WhatsApp or something like that, and that I would be willing to do a video chat as soon as they were comfortable with that? I think I could have some success with this thing, and I'm tired of waiting for international travel to open up again. I don't look my age (look 10 to 15 years younger), I'm in decent shape, and I get what I like (white college girls) flirting with me all the time. One even called me her "daddy" one time LOL! Probably just angling to get free drinks LOLOLOL!

Oh, and I realize that anal is probably out of the question damn near 100% of the time hahaha! That's OK though, that's OK! Because remember, if I'm drilling that booty hole on the tutes 70% of the time, [B]Im hitting that pussy 100% of the time[/B]![/QUOTE]

Those numbers pretty much match my experience in the one month I had patience for that shit. I'm simply not desperate / enjoy the hunt enough to spend that kind of time for am extended period of time. But as I said a few posts back, the work did pay off it was just a hell of a lot of work. I also want a quality "commitment" fake or not if she's a good liar I don't care but I don't see anyone only willing to meet for an hour or two. If they're not willing to at least consider spending the night I move on.

Afa chatting, you do what it takes. I chatted a girl up for a week probably 1-2 hrs / day. If there was no chemistry there's no way that would have been possible. When we met it was like we were old friends. The ones where we chat for am hour and they disappear are by far the most frustrating and a major turn off for me.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2643257]Yo Cane,

I know you were asking Steve, but I hope my stats on SA are another helpful data point.

When I was active on SA in the USA, I spent at least 20 hours each week on the website. No exaggeration. During a 20 month period, I probably contacted five to ten thousand gals, conversed with one or two thousand on the site or on text, and met about a hundred in-person. I eventually had relations with about two dozen SBs.

So, yeah, if one is looking for a quick hookup, then SA in the USA may be a waste of time. BUT, if you ENJOY the search, and are patient, then it can be fun and you can find some gems. For me, having one gem per month, despite over a hundred hours of work per month, was worth it, but at that time. I think I really enjoyed the novelty at the time. Would I do it again today? Not sure.

BTW, I agree with 99% of what Steve says and recommends. But one main difference between me and him, when it comes to SA, is that I don't text the girls that much. There were too many occasions where we had great chemistry on text, but not in person. And so, my strategy was to text a few times only and then suggest a meetup. Some of them wanted to keep texting, but I told them that chemistry is everything to me, and I can only tell if there's chemistry by meeting in-person. Of course, I lost a lot of girls' interests this way, but so be it.[/QUOTE]

Thanks guys for all of the detailed and helpful responses! Anyway you cut it, this thing sounds like a lot of work. But few things worth having come easy do they? I thought about the Diamond membership, but I'm not comfortable providing my personal details for the verification process. Not to a dating site that could get hacked or something. Besides, other people present different views regarding upgrading to Diamond status, with even one SB saying that she sees it as a negative sign that a SD has become addicted to the site (shrug). I'm going to start out slow. Get a free membership and just see what's out there in my area (not interested in foreign girls for sugaring). If I see enough cuties to keep my attention, then I will upgrade to premium and go from there. I realize that I won't get as many responses as I would from having Diamond, but I don't want to be swamped with more inquiries than I have time for anyway. I think a couple of hours a day on there would be enough for me. I see that SA has video and audio chat now. Has anybody used those, and if so, how well did they work? I would think that if a girl is serious, once she's comfortable enough, then she should have no problem with a video chat, unless the person on the other end is hiding something. Thanks again for the tips!

You don't need to verify or do anything else. Just pay for diamond and you're now diamond. I would not have done that for much of the same reasons you stated but getting verified was not part of the process. If a girl believes the income and net worth someone states on that site they are dumber than a box or rocks and deserve to get taken advantage of. Same for the verification, it means nothing. Same as a guy thinking he's anything more than 1 in a long line of other guys she's talking to. It's part of the game and you're a fool to not know the rules or be willing to learn them very quickly.

Also, it's none of my business but if part of the reason you don't get diamond is financial this probably isn't the best way to go about getting girls. Depending on what you're looking for, you'll need money to play and sometimes a lot of it. If you go to AMPS or live near a place prostitution is legal and / or tolerated, add a zero to whatever you're paying and you'll be in the ballpark.

There are plenty of skanks and pros there but I can't comment on that because I wasn't looking for it. If you need some help; if they call you "baby" they are a prostitute. You're welcome.

[QUOTE=TheCane;2643296]Thanks guys for all of the detailed and helpful responses! Anyway you cut it, this thing sounds like a lot of work. But few things worth having come easy do they? I thought about the Diamond membership, but I'm not comfortable providing my personal details for the verification process. Not to a dating site that could get hacked or something. Besides, other people present different views regarding upgrading to Diamond status, with even one SB saying that she sees it as a negative sign that a SD has become addicted to the site (shrug). I'm going to start out slow. Get a free membership and just see what's out there in my area (not interested in foreign girls for sugaring). If I see enough cuties to keep my attention, then I will upgrade to premium and go from there. I realize that I won't get as many responses as I would from having Diamond, but I don't want to be swamped with more inquiries than I have time for anyway. I think a couple of hours a day on there would be enough for me. I see that SA has video and audio chat now. Has anybody used those, and if so, how well did they work? I would think that if a girl is serious, once she's comfortable enough, then she should have no problem with a video chat, unless the person on the other end is hiding something. Thanks again for the tips![/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=TheCane;2643296]Thanks guys for all of the detailed and helpful responses! Anyway you cut it, this thing sounds like a lot of work. But few things worth having come easy do they? I thought about the Diamond membership, but I'm not comfortable providing my personal details for the verification process. Not to a dating site that could get hacked or something. Besides, other people present different views regarding upgrading to Diamond status, with even one SB saying that she sees it as a negative sign that a SD has become addicted to the site (shrug). I'm going to start out slow. Get a free membership and just see what's out there in my area (not interested in foreign girls for sugaring). If I see enough cuties to keep my attention, then I will upgrade to premium and go from there. I realize that I won't get as many responses as I would from having Diamond, but I don't want to be swamped with more inquiries than I have time for anyway. I think a couple of hours a day on there would be enough for me. I see that SA has video and audio chat now. Has anybody used those, and if so, how well did they work? I would think that if a girl is serious, once she's comfortable enough, then she should have no problem with a video chat, unless the person on the other end is hiding something. Thanks again for the tips![/QUOTE]Save your money, just buy a standard membership and put it toward some trips Mexico. MTY and CDMX are great. It does take some work, but it will definitely pay off.

[QUOTE=FilthyBeaver;2643464]You don't need to verify or do anything else. Just pay for diamond and you're now diamond. I would not have done that for much of the same reasons you stated but getting verified was not part of the process. If a girl believes the income and net worth someone states on that site they are dumber than a box or rocks and deserve to get taken advantage of. Same for the verification, it means nothing. Same as a guy thinking he's anything more than 1 in a long line of other guys she's talking to. It's part of the game and you're a fool to not know the rules or be willing to learn them very quickly.

Also, it's none of my business but if part of the reason you don't get diamond is financial this probably isn't the best way to go about getting girls. Depending on what you're looking for, you'll need money to play and sometimes a lot of it. If you go to AMPS or live near a place prostitution is legal and / or tolerated, add a zero to whatever you're paying and you'll be in the ballpark.

There are plenty of skanks and pros there but I can't comment on that because I wasn't looking for it. If you need some help; if they call you "baby" they are a prostitute. You're welcome.[/QUOTE]Thanks for the clarification. I thought that verification was a required process for holding a Diamond membership. If it isn't, then I will certainly consider it if I find that there is some serious potential in the site for me in my metro area. I can easily afford the Diamond membership cost bro. I travel around the world remember? Well before COVID anyway LOL! That said, I'm not interested in throwing money down a pit in exchange for nothing but wasted time and frustration. And again, as DramaFree’s post shows, there are differing views on whether Diamond is worth it. We shall see!

I am trying to use vanilla visa prepaid gift card to buy the SA subscription. Card keep getting declined. I don't want to use my credit card for privacy reasons.

Any suggested card to by the subscription and stay anonymous?

[QUOTE=TheCane;2643579]Thanks for the clarification. I thought that verification was a required process for holding a Diamond membership.[/QUOTE]SA is a lot of work but usually within the first 20 minutes of texting you would know whether it will click, I thought SA and Escorts in Europe were the most GFE and happy meeting I had, though it is more expensive I am more into quality and good feeling than quantity. I also cook for my SA girls and give them cases of beer or wine when they leave me so it sort of helps but it is expensive compared to FB in MDE for sure.

[QUOTE=SamPeter71;2643627]I am trying to use vanilla visa prepaid gift card to buy the SA subscription. Card keep getting declined. I don't want to use my credit card for privacy reasons.

Any suggested card to by the subscription and stay anonymous?[/QUOTE]Prepaid Visa or Mastercard: These function like gift cards and can be purchased at most major retailers with cash or credit cards.

Google Play payments via Android app: SA has an Android app that allows you to pay via Google Play. Additionally, there are usually Google Play gift cards available in most grocery stores that you can load your account with.

[QUOTE=FilthyBeaver;2643034]It's addressed to Steve who admittedly has more experience but I want to contribute to this.

SA is a colossal waste of time as with most efforts that involve high value results, diamond / asteroid / gold mining, those sand pictures that Tibetan monks make, Trump's wall, etc.

That said, the results have been inarguable for me and I am now a believer. Will not consider anything less than a 9; my time, my money, my fantasy. I'll drop to an 8 mongering in any corner of the planet but when I'm at home it's the best or nothing. I'm not desperate so I'll hold out for what I want.

Had two 1 month stints one year apart. First was normal membership, second was diamond. Normal membership was a complete waste of time. Met 3 in person, none of whom looked like their profile pics, had an arrangement with 1 for about 3 months but nothing spectacular more about the novelty. To get to those 3 I sifted through hours and hours of profiles, fakers, being stood up, etc. Massive time waste and I'm a fairly busy person. Almost no one contacted me, I had to initiate almost always with negative results.

Second was far more interesting. 1 mo diamond membership. I had 50+ a day come to me for the first two weeks then slowed quite a bit. I literally spent 4-5 hrs / day going through them and communicating. Most were garbage profiles from pick a poor country on the planet or "rich" US cities but were easy to spot and block. I was sniped fairly regularly by really attractive college aged girls who don't allow their profiles to be found but they'll contact you when something catches their eye. Frankly I was and still am shocked at the quality of girls that I've found, in the best way possible. Cute, girl next door, can have anyone she wants and knows it but is sitting in my house telling me how great it would be to hang out there for several hours a few times a month.

Your Questions:

Duds. Tons, 90% Or, I'd have an otherwise great conversation for 30 min, not say anything remotely controversial or piss her off and she disappeared never to be seen again. These are the worst because they take up the most time. So of the 700 girls I contacted or contacted me. Maybe 10-15 turned into real actionable conversations where a meeting was discussed let alone sex. Again, 9+ for me and these girls are not prostitutes so you may need to meet them twice before you see anything interesting and I wouldn't pay anything until that time. I'm fine with this because I want a mental connection, real or not I don't care but getting my rocks off in an hour or two does not interest me (especially at SA prices!) Too many other cheaper and more convenient ways to do that if I that's the goal. These college girls are charming, ambitious, and driven. Also really independent. I've met 6 in person so far and they all have those traits in common. A flashy car is not enough to get their attention, also they don't really care about gifts. They have goals and those goals need to be funded. I meet the 7th today (a 20's Dr according to her, chemistry has been incredible chatting; we chatted for almost 3 hrs yesterday and yes, I believe she is a Dr as I have an advanced degree and it's hard to hold my attention that long on a fuckin phone). 4 in my home town. 3 in other countries. They are all gorgeous and total GF material but I am not a juggler, I'm looking for 1 with incredible chemistry but haven't had sex with all yet to make a decision. The 3 in other countries are a different situation so it's less about the long game but I was up front about it and it hasn't been a problem. I met one in a foreign country for what was supposed to be dinner and extras but she ended up going home after 12 hours the next morning. * She curled up next to me after about 2. 5 straight hours of going through my whole playbook and I was in heaven. My lips were sore all next day because she couldn't suck on my lips enough. I'd pull away and she'd come right back at me for hours.

Pics. Going to change this topic slightly. So what was the difference between my first stint and my second stint? Diamond makes a difference. If I were a girl looking for reliable funds I wouldn't give someone the time of day with the cheapest profile type. A fast food worker can afford standard. Also I used real pics that were unhidden. Shows them I'm not playing games. Yes it's personally risky but I wanted results and I got them in spades. Also, my profile was extremely detailed. I put what I wanted, what was important to me, what I was willing to do as far as specific situations I was willing to assist with (not actual numbers) and what she needed to look like. I got tons of feedback telling me how they appreciated how easy it was to figure out if they were a match with me due to the level of detail I put out there. As far as moving to another app, if that doesn't come up in the first 10 lines she's probably a time waster. The serious ones are ready to move forward immediately. The lag on that stupid app is frustrating as hell when you're trying to text real time and you can't discuss specifics without risking being banned. So move forward, if she won't give you her number or ID for whatever app you're using. Move on. I had no issue giving my real number to anyone and I've got pages of sms texts and pictures to show for it.

My dating life has been insane the last month. I have enough contacts and backup contacts I can mine for several months so I let my account lapse and deleted it already. Overall I'm really happy with how I played it and the results I got.

Also this might help. There are 5 types of agenda on that site.

Party girls. Looking for a good time "luxury lifestyle" and a bunch of overpriced shit in their closet.

Desperate girls. Drug addicts & single moms.

Time wasters. Their "friend" told them about the site and they're "trying it out".

Delusional girls. Expect someone to "keep" them.

Goal driven - (my fav) college costs x, rent is why, I make a, and I need be. I have no issue at all helping girls like this. I don't think it's reasonable to expect something tangible not change hands in a relationship where the parties are so far off from an economic perspective. If you're looking to get laid for the cheapest price this really isn't the place. There are exceptions to everything so don't tell me how you got a 10 for a bag of pasta and a can of tomato sauce. I don't care. But I've found some real legit wife material here. Just girls without the means and no help from family. There's nothing wrong in my book using what you've got to get what you want and I admire them for their courage.

Good luck boys. That site was a blast but it's more time than I have (to get the best results) and I would be more than happy to have one of the 3 I have on the line for several years once I finally make a decision. They are all stunner trophy material.[/QUOTE]Damn dude, great insights here. I enjoyed reading this a lot. I joined the site and spent a lot of time on it for the 2 months I was able to keep a standard premium subscription active before getting banned. I made some mistakes but that's water under the bridge now. Anyhow, I spent significant time texting with a couple of girls in Montreal, and met one last week, my first SA experience.

We had great chemistry over text, exchanged pics and she sent me the casual pic or video to keep my interest, nothing naked though so that gave me hope this wasn't a pro. Standard story about being a student, with an office job and looking to supplement income for rent and stuff. Was ok with meeting for dinner and drink first then maybe more. Kept in touch and agreed to a FaceTime call 2 days prior to my trip, it went fine and she looked good close to her pics minus make up which to me was a positive.

I arrived, and the next day we agreed to meet at a place near my hotel. I get there first and she shows up looking very attractive and met my expectations. Very casual restaurant but she was well dressed, beautiful black lady with a wonderful body and piercing eyes. Dinner went good, not a lot of physical contact but after a couple of drinks we get more relaxed and head to the hotel for another drink. We finally decide to head to my room, and once inside we finally kissed, and then she starts to bring up her gift before doing business she said. I get pro vibes. We keep going and get undressed, prior to her giving me a blowjob she mentions the gift again, so pour her a drink, and place the gift on the side, apparently that bothers her because it's something escorts get? So idk at this point LOL. But then she gets naked and she looks better than I expected so we proceed.

Her skills are good, too good for a non pro. She tastes wonderful, and gives amazing service. Now, I admit I've seen a lot of pro action in recent months, so I'm very in tune to pros, and this girl never seemed nervous or missed a beat during the action. So who knows, but I think she's been or still is a pro. Then after I finish we hang out and suddenly she wants me to call her an Uber to go home.

She messaged when she arrived home to wish me good night, and we spent about 5 hours together so I have no complaints. But, was the time invested prior worth the experience? I don't know. I've since fucked another 7 girls here, and honestly I'm not sure I'll remember this experience more than the others, but maybe I just had a bad date. The cost was only about 2 hours worth with a pro here in Montreal, and she looked about a solid 8.

Anyhow, if I was still on the site maybe I would try my luck again, but I'm not sure the juice is worth the squeeze, at least I can't say that yet. Or maybe I just fuck too many pros and can't appreciate a normal girl because of it LOL.