Safe Sex and Sex Related Discussions in Thailand

[quote]originally posted by skinless
[i]mojo: they are terrible odds you are giving. what gives?
joe: thanks for your report and be careful. i did phone up the bb one and tell her my news and i know by reading her emails she got cleaned up. the kangaroo lady will deny it of course. please excuse my approach as i do not want syphilis:
did you get oral or genital symptoms?
are you cleaned up already?
are you drinking lots of water?
please keep us informed on this as it is very important. we are the only two who ever admitted here to being purple hearts. you saluted me. i salute you.
skinless (audie murphy) [/i][/quote]

well, you're likely right mojo, but it's rather irrelevant from my perspective, since i'm a fan of both giving and receiving (umm, though of pleasure, not diseases.) that's one of my lines in the sand, and while, as i mentioned, i try to minimize risk through inspection in that regard, i'm well aware of the inexactness and risk of that approach, especially given that i've just had an object lesson. that said, this is the first dose i've had in probably three hundred partners over the years.

wildman, i stand convicted of posting an incorrect assumption -- and believe me i have absolutely no problem being corrected, so please point out any other place i've passed along something incorrect, as this forum is only as good as the valuable info posted on it. based on symptoms from the link you posted it appears pretty clear that what i had was chlamydia rather than syphillis. (and thanks for that link, btw -- i actually spent a fair amount of time searching for a symptom chart for male symptoms of chlamydia, as that was one of the things i suspected and simply couldn't find them. the joys of my lousy los dialup connection, which seems a bit less cranky today.) despite what the particular posted site claims, which is that chlamydia is transmitted via unprotected intercourse and can be prevented by condom use, in my case there absolutely was protection at all times during intercourse (and no condom tearing or breakage either, as i checked.) other sites also cite fluid exchange through the mouth as a transmission method, which is pretty clearly what happened in this case. i knew that was also the case with syph, which is why i went there as a solution when my chlamydia searches came up empty.

i apologize to all for the incorrect assumption -- recall that i said my doctor was somewhat vague, said it could be syph, was definitely an std, and prescribed doxy, which i see by the site is the treatment called for by chlamydia. i did [i]not[/i] receive any kind of penicillin which would be the treatment for syph and others.

washing is, in fact, something the cdc recommends as a way of killing surface germs and generally reducing risks, but i agree with wildman that anything likely to irritate tissue is completely counterproductive.

now for what it's worth, i've had the complete sequence of all hep vaccines, as well as yellow fever, tetanus, etc. pretty much any kind of traveller's vaccination you can get, i've had in the past few years, as i've travelled to a number of third-world places, and all my vaccines current. i'm with you, wildman -- frankly i'm far more worried about hepatitus, especially some of the new and nasty strains than syph or some of the others. hep and hiv are the two nasties that i worry about most, as you can cure or at least live with the others.

i apologize to anyone who finds this all too clinical, but i'm hoping people can learn from my experience. it happened, i'm a big boy and knew it was part of the equation, and by posting this stuff here perhaps i can make a little lemonade out of the lemon. so, to answer your questions, skinless:

1. my symptoms were burning during urination, fever, nausea and incontinence. let me note that i gave this less that 24 hours before i consulted a doctor, as the burning was clearly not one of my usual "ate the wrong street food" symptoms, and i was perfectly aware of the specific risks of my behavior. it is worth noting that many men are asymptomatic for chlamydia.
2. my symptoms are gone, and according to what i've read the disease should be essentially knocked out of my system at this point since it's been a week, though i'm obviously going to finish the full cycle of treatment and do a follow-up. i should no longer be a risk to any partner.
3. absolutely, i'm staying hydrated to the max, and it's all bottled water. i do a lot of walking around here, it's far hotter than what i'm used to even though it's the cool season, and i'm probably going through nearly a gallon of water a day. i've little doubt this aids in flushing the system, since mine's certainly been flushing out fair amounts of water the past several days. better too much than too little in this regard.

and i'm absolutely going to let my partner from kangaroo know when i return to bangkok next week, as she's clearly more at risk from me from this particular disease, even had i not gotten cleaned up. good to hear, skinless, that the bb one has gotten herself taken care of -- i hope she understands that this is an occupational hazard that she needs to take care of in order to safeguard her future. i've been hanging out with a friend in chiang mai who's adopted a nice kid whose mother died from aids, and he is pretty rep001hing, given the thai obsession with family, which has a pretty loose definition, on the attitudes of thais about the problems of people not part of their own family.

If you are coming up with diseases frequently, it can be a sign of a larger problem with your immune system which may be lower due to alcohol or drugs, pre-existing conditions, etc. Just because you are exposed to a virus doesn't mean you get sick.

I remember back in the 80's when HIV was a very scary subject and a lot of the medical people were scaring the crap out of everyone with doom and gloom scenarios. I had to work very hard to get good research about what it meant for me and my hobby.

Getting a disease like gonnorea from receiving oral sex or even kissing, as is suggested on some medical web-sites, fits it he category of a needless fright tactic directed at teens, IMO.

As far as giving oral to a Thai working girl, thats a big no-no. Blood is the area of extreme concern as far as HIV goes. Although its a manageable disease now, you don't want to run that risk.

If I was going to do that, first fews days in Bangkok I'd take my preferred girl for some very good tests (no test is 100%) and then keep her for the duration.

joe_zop

sorry to read that you had some health-related concerns spoiling your time in LOS, and glad that it seems over by now.

In your most recent post, you mention "a friend in Chiang Mai who's adopted a nice kid whose mother died from AIDS".

Would you care indicating what illness exactly took the life of the kid's mother ?

mojosaur:
you write "As far as giving oral to a Thai working girl, thats a big no-no. Blood is the area of extreme concern as far as HIV goes. Although its a manageable disease now, you don't want to run that risk.

If I was going to do that, first fews days in Bangkok I'd take my preferred girl for some very good tests (no test is 100%) and then keep her for the duration."

HIV is NOT a disease, and HIV infection is NOT manageable. If your tests turn positive, the good doctors will submit you to an extremely unpleasant cocktail of drugs for a very long time (in fact until you die of it).

As for your second idea, concentrating on one girl makes sense since you avoid the promiscuity issue, but there can be no certainty that she is virus-free. You might be focusing on the very one who will contaminate you...

Let's face it: *****mongering is a somewhat dangerous activity.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Seydlitz
[
Let's face it: *****mongering is a somewhat dangerous activity. [/i][/QUOTE]



Yes, but the danger is relative to one's practices. I did it all over the world for 20 years and have never gotten so much as a cold sore.

Using condoms is common sense....giving oral sex with a lot of mouth to mucous membrane contact is not a good idea, assuming that one wants to remain healthy.

More importantly, there is no reason anyone should ever get it, *****mongering or not. It is 100% preventable.

I was just trying to suggest a few ways this fellow could minimize his risks and still do his thing. Although a negative test would not be 100%, it would be a lot better than Russian roulette.

Afar as the flushing thing goes, I've always been told by my doctors that drinking large amounts of water helps flush gremlins out of the system in a general sense, STDs or not. It's hardly anything remotely like a treatment -- it's just something that aids the healing process when already using the medicine you've been given. At least that was my understanding -- but doctors being the way they are, I may have been being told this simply to improve my overall health when sick, which is fine enough by me.

Wildman -- yes, they did a urinalysis, which is where an infection was found, and it's entirely possible, given how lousy a communicator the doctor was, that it was a bladder infection. Nothing would please me more for that to be the truth, but I'm not going to presume anything further until I do my follow-up and have a good talk with him. As I mentioned, however, I hydrate like mad when in warm climates, as I've gotten seriously dehydrated once in the past and did not like what it did to the rest of my trip. The rest of the symptoms could well simply be bad street food, as I do a lot of buying from vendors (half the fun of being here.) I don't think he was unsure -- he may in fact have been being discreet since I was there with my friend and his wife. I've never had a prostrate problem, and had a full physical before I left, including the lovely prostrate exam.

Thanks for the Bumrungrad suggestion, I may indeed look into their Executive suite. As far as it goes, at this point I'm planning on a full run of STD tests here after I finish my doxy cycle, and doing the same with the tilac I'm planning to spend extended time with, as she's new to the game and more than a bit sexually naive. (Haven't had that conversation yet, though, but I've very little doubt that she'll agree.) Probably will follow up with another once I get home.

Mojo, I've agreed with you in most cases, but according to all of my reading there is as close to no risk as is defineable of HIV transmission via oral sex, even in the case where both partners have membrane damage. I do not have any such damage in my mouth, and while I acknowledge and have stated that my behavior entailed risk, I do not believe HIV infection was on the risk menu, and I know of no authority that feels it is. Saliva has consistently been shown to neutralize HIV.

Seydlitz -- I know your position on this, as you and I have had excellent critical discussions in the past. I only know what my friend stated about the girl's mother, and it would be rather indelicate to pry, especially as he spoke with great emotion about the process of watching her die. I know your position on the whole thing, and your interest in issues of definition, but this is not a situation at this point where I'm comfortable inquiring further.

For what it's worth, all, I'm feeling fine now, I intend fully to follow up and make sure I understand completely what I had and didn't have and further issues, both for my own health and for that of others. To be honest, I just felt so much like crap at the time (and had been having frustration after frustration -- net access not working, several thousand dollars not deposited into my account as promised before I left) that I just wanted something to fix it, so my analytic abilities were undoubtedly not at full force.

Skinless, you're darn right -- STDs are equal-opportunity buggers, and uneducated TGs don't come up with them like magic -- they get given them by somebody, but they, like everyone else, will believe the easiest way out in order not to have to think it. I've considered myself lucky to date to have avoided everything, and I've made my personal decisions regarding the degrees of risk I am willing to take or not take, and a patial departure from my usual practices may well have been what helped lead me down the path I followed. But if you have multiple partners, which most here do, and in an area of higher risk, you simply increase the odds you pay the piper. Given the stats I've seen in the past on the number of Thai sex workers who are infected, I'm frankly surprised that Skinless and I are really the only ones to bring it up on a personal basis at all. (I have a really hard time believing everyone on this forum scrupulously practices totally safe sex, especially given past discussions.) And if nothing else, misinformation or not, this is really the first decent discussion here on this stuff in quite some time, and I want to thank you all for your suggestions and help.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by skinless
[i]Joe: If he is checking out your prostate, chances are you have a bad STI itraveling up your dick even as we speak! Trust me on this one.
Drink lots of water, try some cranberry juice, nothing bitter or hot like spices. And stay away from that shit street food like you are some LP back packing moron. If there is no flowing water, only eat hot dogs on the street. But pay the extra $$ and don't be a food poisoned moron. Hey, there is a good Isaan babe selling fruit juices, 20 bt a shot, well worth it, between the nite market and the moat, all day long. Considering lots of TGs shave their pussies coz customers like to eat them (spicy food beware) chances are you are right and lotsa guys have little souvenirs. Oh. Stay sober too. No alcohol either. [/i][/QUOTE]

Skinless -- no, the doctor here did not check my prostate; that was part of the physical I took before leaving (which I included as info in response to Wildman.) And I've reduced somewhat my street food intake, or more accurately that containing meat that's been standing -- I've got no problem with things like Pad Thai or Roti where I watch everything being cooked for me. As far as alcohol -- again, my Bangkok night was a major exception from which I've learned my lesson, and only happened because I fell in with that bar owner who insisted on buying shots of things to celebrate his girlfriend's birthday. If I go drinking, my max is generally three Singhas a night, spaced out over four or five hours with non-alcoholic spacers in between. I'd also guess I've probably hit almost every one of the little carts with fruit juices and shakes around my part of town -- I absolutely love them. If you were to see my fridge right now, you'd see ten large bottles of water, two cartons of orange juice, one of pineapple, one of cranberry, some fresh fruit, and probably two diet cokes. I'm mostly pretty simple and healthy on all this stuff, really -- my lunch today was at a restaurant, a little Thai soup and a salad and water and juice to drink. If I get sick again at this point, it's more than likely because it rained so long and so hard last night in CM that all the tuk-tuks were swamped and I had to walk home through flooded streets where the lovely brown water was mostly up to my knees... :)

No offense intended Joe.

Absolutely none taken -- we're all big boys here :)

Wildman,

<<<QUOTE: I think N-11 refers to the size of the condom: 11 mm? Poor Freeler

Hey! It's just a joke, OK?

wildman>>>


Your 'joke' on the size of the N-11 condom, as far as I'm concerned is :

"Deliberate Disinformation".


Maybe you could make this wrong right by stating the true size of that condom, so the readers all understand why they might want to find N-11 instead of other condoms in Thailand.

Thank you very much!


BTW What happened to your posts?

I am going to Bangkok with my girlfriend and we are planning on a threesome. (2 f 1 m) What precautions should I take besides the obvious condom and her (the thai girl) to give and receive oral sex?

Thanks a lot for your help guys.... Hope I can return the favour....

ClitSucker,

with all due respect, this is a stupid question.

You intend to have intercourse with a commercial sex provider. What makes you believe that there would be anything special about doing it in Bangkok ?

The usual precautions will do fine.

As one of my best friends once said:

"If I'm going to get AIDS from eating pussy, then I'm going to get AIDS from eating pussy."

Just about sums it up, don't you think?

i figured i should post a follow-up, since i blathered on around here with my travails earlier. when i got back home i had another bout with the same symptoms as when i was in los. went to my regular doctor, and he prescribed both the same doxy as the doc i saw in chiang mai, noting that both clamydia and a urinary tract infection were likely, took a [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord109][CodeWord109][/url] sample, and also gave me a shot for other nasties just in case. got a call today after i called to check on the sample -- a confirmed hit for gonorrea.

so, i'm officially on the list of the bitten or the "clapped" (though supposedly i'm also now on the list of the cured -- we'll see for sure once my follow-up sample is tested) and i'll note again that i always use a condom for intercourse, so this most likely comes from unprotected oral, either giving or receiving. (though you can get it from physical contact as well.) let me note that both times the symptoms have appeared (generally, they show up 2-5 days after exposure) was after i'd been in bangkok, and while i can be certain that's where i picked it up the first time, i cannot pinpoint things as specifically the second, as i was with multiple partners, was in and out of bangkok both times, and the symptoms can show up at different intervals. the second time it could have come either from there or pattaya. i've got a vague suspicion that i know who i got it from, as i had one partner in common both trips, but it could also have come from two different partners.

the message is simply that it's out there, and that people do catch things -- so be aware and be careful. i'm lucky enough to have gotten through it with only a few days of discomfort in both cases, but not everyone gets off so easy, particularly if you don't do the follow-up, and also if you don't have visible symptoms. i don't think this will cause me to radically change my behavior, but i may be a bit more careful my next time around the big durian.

joe_zop,
Welcome to the "clapper club".....haha..... I got that one too, and I got from unprotected oral sex (receiving end...who'd want to eat a hookers pussy!!! Yuck!). Anyways, you're right...a few days discomfort, take a pill or two and that should be it. Anyone who thinks they can't get a STD from a blow job should get their head examined. Enough said. "Wrap that willy"! Hope you're feeling better.

Perhaps the title of this section of the board is an oxymoron?