Morelia

Hola Everyone!

I've been busy and was waiting for a reply from Miller2K...

And Miller2K, apologies for the LONG email. I'll send only short ones now :) I do overplan my trips to Mexico, though on each I've gotten a ton of things done without mishap except for once.

And thank you Cupido!! Yes, I definitely will be moving to Mexico in 1 year, probably August or September 2003. I've found houses for sale in Uruapan and Morelia (Uruapan price was $15,000 pesos and Morelia was 18,000 pesos) but I didn't recognize the colonia mentioned in Uruapan and the one in Morelia was not mentioned either. Both cities have mostly decent areas but the bad areas are EXTREME. Given my lack of a perfect Mexican accent and my very light looks I need at least a "questionable" colonia versus a dangerous one.

On rents, I've now found a rent price of $1,500 pesos per month in Zamora for a 2 bedroom apartment with some decent qualities that totally make this somewhat high price worth it... (such as it's just across the street from a NURSING COLLEGE!!! OOoohhh HELLO NURSE!!!) ;) I have a friend in Zamora who's really trying to help me out, thank God for little favors ;) So... I'll have to see about that one later on.

And I again agree with you Miller2k --- best laid plans can get totally destroyed in Mexico. However I don't necessarily agree with you on Mexican medicine. I've met some great doctors in Uruapan. They are friends of my parents and family - going back over 35 years. Their children grew up and studied medicine. One is an opthalmologist who is excellent beyond words. A fine doctor, eye surgeon and laser surgeon.

The other is the middle son who is a G.I. doctor (Gastro-intestinal) and he treated me every time I got sick down there and he delivered his sister's babies and has done work for free for the poor and works out of a private hospital. I've been in that hospital many times (not because I was sick, mostly because at that time I was selling laptops to all the doctors there... that was cool in those days). The place is spotless, the instruments are sanitized and super heated to kill the bugs and none of the doctors there are slouches. The all work really hard. It may just be that one hospital that is like this, but I would put my health in their hands.

This hospital is in Uruapan and it is called Fray Juan de San Miguel I believe. I'll always get good care there, so ideally I want to live within 4 hours bus ride of Uruapan. I think they would not charge me outrageous prices as well because I have always given them excellent prices on the things I've sold (My goal was only to cover my airplane and some hotel costs on those trips) and I always provided ongoing "tech support" when I came down. In return I got "free" medical care when I was there. I just had to pay for the medications and they refused to let me pay for the consultation / diagnosis.

Anyway... I do need to work on not planning this move to death. But I can't just put all my money in my belt and drive over to Mexico. I'm not as brave as you were Miller2k!!!

I'm going to have a U.S. bank account. I already have a Mexican bank account and Mexican passport and dual nationality. Worst thing that can happen is that the move fails after a year or two and I come back to the U.S. to work. Nothing different than what I am doing now. And the $40 K I intend on having when I move down there would buy me what in the area I live in? (SF Bay area) A great down payment on a Lexus or a nice Kia and some vacations to Mexico? The median house out here costs over $350,000 USD ... 40K in this job market doesn't mean much. (versus the other 4 letter word I wanted to use).

The way I see it I have 1 year to plan this out. I've got the truck for the move, I will be legalizing it when I cross the border and they'll give me Mexican license plates for the drive through Mexico and Cupido yes, I am sure hoping a Mexicanita finds me when I am down there and makes my life Much more pleasant. It's the time waiting for this to happen that is so tough. But yes, I am pretty darned sure that a Mexicana of worth will find me worthwhile. They've said I'm "guapo" and "de buena onda" many times (friends and the SW's alike). I just need to be careful of the ones who think that life is better in the U.S.

O.K. so much for a short post... but hey, this is better than the one below ;)

Thanks everyone for your comments here. It sure does help.

El Mojado

Mojado,

You have a Mexican passport and dual nationality. Were you born in Mexico? How does one get dual nationality -become a Mexican citizen? Is it worth it - what are the advantages? If I married a Mexicana would I automatically be a Mexican national?
Just wondering. Miller and Cupido probably can answer this as well .

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Prokofiev
[i]Mojado,

Is it worth it - what are the advantages? If I married a Mexicana would I automatically be a Mexican national?
[/i][/QUOTE]

The biggest advantage of being a Mexican national is that you can own property in Mexico. The Americans that have property in Mexico are constantly threatened with re-possesion by the government through the power of iminent domain.

Are there any girls in Morelia?

Hi all...Alien is completely correct about the property ownership issue. An attorney friend here told me that non-Mexican property owners are constantly being hit up for "taxes" that can range from yearly to monthly and in varying amounts, depending on the particular official...That's why I don't even think about buying land here until I get married.

Proko...when I ask the immigration people here about the easiest way to become a legal resident, they always advise me to marry a Mexicana or have a baby with a Mexicana. This sort of cuts through a little of the beaurocracy. There will be MANY women willing to marry an American purely from a business standpoint where you can both fix your respective papers. I've received about 12 offers since I've been here. Personally,though, I've given up trying to fix my papers. It's pointless since it's never been an issue and I usually only end up paying thousands of pesos for a long day and nothing accomplished. According to the Mexican constitution, any person who is a direct descendent of a Mexican national is also a Mexican citizen. So, unless mom or dad are Mexican nationals, you'll have to deal with the same run-around with regard to your papers.

By the way, another lawyer friend in the USA advised me NOT to become a Mexican citizen because the pledge to be a citizen makes you renounce all previous ties or allegiances to other countries and, from a pure legal aspect, the US gov't acknowledges taking an oath of allegiance to another country as a renouncement of your US citizenship. Currently, the US gov't doesn't enforce any such policy and they might never do so, but this isn't something that's protected by the constitution, it's totally a decision of Congress...and as such, it can be changed at any time...

Mojado...don't worry about the length of your e-mails...I didn't get a chance to write because I've been tied up with professional and personal issues...I'll drop you a line after I finish here...

Explorer...my sentiments exactly. We need a few more reports here. I've taken a break from my hobby lately, but I'll be posting a real report very soon...

Take care all...

Prokofiev/Miller:
You don't have to pay ANY mexican tax (Property, IVA, Tenencia, etc.)....ever, you are not Mexicans, Mexican taxes are for mexican nationals ONLY,
Mexicans don't have to pay ANY Tax outside Mexico, There are ways to legally avoid paying taxes outside your home country,
(ex. Most countries refund the sale tax paid during your visit)

It's perfectly legal to have 2 or 3 passports or as many as you want,

Miller: There is no problem owning property in Mexico,


Regards

CM

Prokofiev/Miller:

I agree with Mojado, You can get World Class doctors and medical care in Mexico, if you know where to look... that's why it's expensive,
(ex. my beautiful young dentist studied in Mexico and Germany, married a German dentist, they practice in Morelia using the best of the World/German Technology),
(lots of German expatriates in Morelia and Michoacan)

The World's best/biggest Insurance Companies have a Mexico Office: ING, New York Life, Travelers, etc., You can safely buy insurance in Mexico, if you have a problem cashing a check, call the NY or London Office, they will help you...I mean, You can buy an International Medical Plan (Insurance) in Mexico and use it abroad, at ANY hospital/Country,

Regards

CM

Guys: what happened to all the great sex forum discussions you used to have?! It seems to have vanished. After reading the past 10 posts i now consider myself an expert on Mexican property rights, sales tax, medical insurance and citizenship laws!

Hello...

Cupido, I agree that it is possible to find world class health care in Mexico, but I've heard nothing but bad things from the people around me. Maybe the key is sticking to the metropolitan areas for health care.

However, I beg to differ about the "tax" issue. Property taxes are to be paid for property...regardless of whether you are a citizen, resident, or illegal immigrant. They charge the taxes for the land ownership, it's not about the person who happens to own the land.

Here's a true horror story to illustrate my point: An older American friend of mine bought some land in Zitacuaro (about 2 hours east of Morelia) and, over the course of 4 years, he built a very nice house. He came to Mexico about 2 or 3 times a year for vacation, but he had the intention to eventually move here when he felt that he was in a good enough financial situation to retire. Well, about 4 years after he bought the land, he got a frantic phone call from a neighbor that he was paying to take care of the house. The government pulled up and seized the property, furniture and all. They broke through the lock and dead-bolted the door so nobody could enter. Eventually, the house was auctioned off. The official reason for seizing the property was: Failure to pay property tax. He flew down ASAP to try to fight this, but it was too late. He tried to explain that the person he bought the land from never told him about any taxes, but ignorance isn't a defense (especially when the city can benefit from a Gringo's mis-calculations). So, he learned the hard way that regulations DO exist, it's just that they're very "flexibly" enforced.

Sure, anybody can hand over cash in exchange for land or houses, but make sure to dot all your "i's: and cross all your "t's". The previous land-owner only cares about making the sale. The truth is that you can probably live your whole life without ever getting into tax trouble, most authorities just don't care (especially in the smaller towns) and the people don't care (they try to distance themselves from the gov't at all costs), but if it does catch up to you, it'll be a complete nightmare. These things might change from state to state or city to city (or most likely: case by case) so just make sure everything is on the up and up.

With regards to IVA....I pay IVA constantly whenever I pay my satellite TV bill, order a PPV event, make a financial transaction, etc. There are probably ways around it, but the effort required isn't worth it. I just pay the few pesos.

It's prohibited for a foreigner to own property on the border or on either coast. And if you want to own land within the republic, you need a permit from the Mexican Consulate (about 3,000 pesos, renewable yearly). I received this info from the Dept. de Migracion and an immigration attorney. Of course, you can go ahead and just hand over money to a land owner and "buy" their property and you might never have a problem...but what about when/if the Mexican gov't decides to catch on?

The right to double nationality is not a protected freedom as a US citizen. Therefore, things can change. Probably not, but who knows about the future?

Gpiper...I agree, but these things are also important because if you can't get your act together then you can't chase the señoritas. :) Maybe there should be a seperate section about becoming an ex-patriate. However, I will post very soon with an all "entertainment" post.

So long.....From:

THE HAPPIEST MAN ALIVE

www.andreamorelia.com

Any reports/info about the girls in Andrea Morelia?

Regards

CM

Hello All....

I took a few moments and stopped in Morelia for a couple of hours on Friday...so I decided to have a little stress relieved.

I decided to pay a visit to the ASAPH massage parlor. As Proko wrote before, this place is more like a residence than a "parlor". It is located in a residential neighborhood in the colonia: Nuevo Chapultapec. I would give you the exact address, but I think that it's a good idea to call ahead and make a reservation. The girl was pushing the idea of making an appointment when I called. And when I got there, she made sure that I did indeed have an appointment. By the way, be careful about some of the street addresses here because many times there is a house with the same address, only with the letter "A" added. For example, there could be a #12 and a #12-A on the same street. This is the case with ASAPH's. I almost made a grave mistake by ringing the doorbell on the wrong house (even though ASAPH has a sign out front)

When I finally got to ASAPH's, an attractive, but young, brunette answered the door in a t-shirt and jeans and led me to an upstairs massage room. She was still school-age because she was working on some homework when I arrived.

The massage room was typical, with a table, mood music, and various scented oils and candles. The girl (I never got her name) left while I disrobed and she later came back in tight pants and a belly shirt. No money was asked for up front (although I paid the 250 pesos for the massage anyway), she just started her massage. It was a pretty good massage and she seemed to know what she was doing. Her ability as a masseuse, combined with the residential, low-key setting and the "No Sexo" statement in their "La Voz" ad, made me think that this was just a straight massage. I was pretty disappointed with that thought, because the girl was just my type. She had the best chest that I've seen in a long time and her school-girl demeanor was making me very "ready".

When the massage was over, she said "listo" and I remained on the table for a while. Then she added that she could also provide other "services" like aroma therapy, a scalp massage, "alivio manual"....."Manual Relief? JACKPOT!!!"

I asked her how much for this additional service and she said 300 pesos. I was feeling my wallet a little full so I asked her if she would take her top off also and she said that that would be an extra 100, but I convinced her to take off her top for nothing extra.

I removed the underwear and hopped back on the table. Then she gave me an excellent HJ with a lubricant while I played with her tits. The mood music and the overall atmosphere made the experience very nice and I didn't feel cheated by "only" having a HJ. I might've been able to talk her into more, but I didn't even try. What made the experience great was her attitude. She acted genuinely embarrassed when she mentioned the "Manual Relief". She would say things like, "me da pena" when she told me about the other services and she actually blushed and turned away shyly a little when I asked the price. This was all probably an act, but I don't care....Bravo!! for the great performance...

After I finished, she said good-bye and I took a shower. I didn't see her again because when I went back downstairs, nobody was around. Then I left and hopped a cab back to downtown. All in all it was a very good experience. I prefer a BJ or FS, but an occasional HJ under the right circumstances is good also.

So, in closing, you can find ASAPH's telephone number in the classified section of "La Voz de Michoacan" newspaper. Call ahead and make an appointment. The massage is 250 pesos and the HJ was an additional 300.

Be safe and have fun.......

Miller,
I remember that house like it was yesterday. And it was probably the same room, although definitely a different woman.

The house seems so ... suburban ... Didn't feel like Mexico.

Keep the Faith, - P

Hello all...

I tried the "Touch me" escort agency this weekend. The process is exactly the same as with "Elegance". After a very short wait (maybe 15 minutes), "Yadira" arrived at my hotel room.

She was a young (20), reasonably attractive girl with, seemingly, a lot of passion. She had the typical rounded features of a Mexican woman. She wasn't fat, but she had meat in all the right places. Maybe some people, who are in love with the stereotypical, anorexic, runway model-type might consider her overweight, but in my opinion there's nothing like a woman who is soft like a real woman, not hard like a man with tits.

Anyway, she was very open to all suggestions and I had a great time for the two hours that the agency provided. She gave me a covered BJ while a fingered her and then she got on top and she played cowgirl. I usually like changing positions during sex, but she felt so good that I let her ride away into the sunset. Afterwards, we showered and had a great conversation about Mexico and her family. She was a nice girl and very sweet. I wouldn't think twice about bringing her home to mom. Also, she said that she was new to the business (5 weeks). I don't know about you guys, but that's a turn-on for me.

To summarize: The "Touch Me" agency charges 750 pesos for a 2-hour session. Their phone number can be found in "La Voz de Michoacan" newspaper or at their website: www.touchmemorelia.com. I recommend Yadira and I plan on requesting a friend of hers next time (Her name is Liz and she was described as tall, dark-skinned, and very fun---just my type. Hell, there are very few women that aren't my type!)

There is little new to report about the SW's, but I'll talk about that in my next post.

Hello again...

I just thought that I'd take the time to re-submit some material about my beloved Morelia for those who either can't access the archives or don't want to go through all the hassle of looking over 2 years of posts. I'll limit this post to those things that I have first hand knowledge of. For other info, search Prokofiev's and Cupido Morboso's other posts.

Street Walkers:

There are two main areas to hit when looking for SW action.

The primary spot is on the street (behind the old bus terminal) "Heroes de Nocupetaro," about a long block east of the terminal. After 7 or 8, girls stand on the street, in front of a cheap hotel. Sometimes you'll see some earlier, but the action doesn't really start until after dark. The girls usually range from strung-out junkies to hardened young hookers. The selection is pretty good and you will occasionally find a real gem in the bunch. Whenever I go I usually find at least one or two that are hot enough. During the prime time, more or less 7-10 girls will be there to pick from. Police pass by often, but they don't hassle anyone and they're probably just there to get some free action from the girls. The price is 200 pesos for the girl and 50 for the room. You have to do your business in the hotel that they stand in front of. (I've yet to convince one to go to my room). Also, be aware that the 200 pesos is usually for the very basic service (i.e "I'll hike up my skirt and you do me as fast as possible. If you want me to change positions or get completely naked, it'll cost you extra"). Also, oral sex is an extreme rarity. Most of the SWs won't do it even for extra money. After midnight, this area becomes a haven for transvestite SWs, so be careful (unless, of course, that's your thing).

The other area for SWs is on the street "Santiago Tapia", between "El Conservatorio de Las Rosas" and the street "Guadalupe Victoria". (This area is maybe 3 blocks from the area that I previously mentioned. Both places are downtown). This is more or less a place for the older, cheaper SWs. Starting at 1 in the afternoon, they'll be standing on the corners. Like I said, these are the older, more worn-out SWs and they're more likely to go back to your hotel with you. I haven't used them so I can't vouch for the quality of the service. Be aware that there is a lot of foot traffic on that street and many young women dress very provocatively, so just make eye contact with the woman you want and she'll ask you if you want to go to "el cuarto". Also, you can sit in the "Conservatorio" and they will often approach you. Usually, though, it's easy to spot the pro's from the non pro's.

A recent new place is right in front of the old bus terminal, after 1 AM. I've seen pockets of SWs hanging out there ,I assume, after the transies take over the place behind the Terminal.

Escort Services:

I strongly recommend these. The service is usually great and they put the GF in the GFE. I've only used two services here: Elegance (www.elegancemorelia.com) and Touch Me (www.touchmemorelia.com). I strongly recommend both services. I've never been let down (however, I've only used Touch Me once). There are many other services in "La Voz de Michoacan". The prices usually range from 700-800 pesos for one or two hours.

Strib Clubs :

The three best clubs in town are Exesso, Manhattan and Junior's. They are on the same street (Sorry, I can't recall the name of the street). If you strike out at these places, there are many other smaller clubs on the same street. On average a private dance will cost you 120 pesos and for about 500 pesos you can get an extra-private dance in an upstairs room. Full service can run you between 800 and 1200 pesos depending on the girl, the night and your negotiating skills. I once received full service for 500 pesos and another time I was quoted 1000. Many girls won't go to your hotel room, so ask in advance. Also, some of the girls only dance and nothing else, so make friends with the waiter-guy so he can direct you to the ones that provide other services. Once you choose a girl, you're expected to buy her a few drinks before you "close the deal". The drinks aren't as expensive as in other Mexican clubs, but I recommend buying a bottle for a couple hundred pesos just to avoid the hassle of buying drink after drink.

In closing, Morelia is a great place for Americans to go. It's a big city, but it still has a small-town charm. You won't be gouged or hussled and an American will often receive special treatment in certain situations. The "working girls", for the most part, are very interesting, sweet people (especially in the escort services). I've established some friendships with them and they don't seem jaded or suffering from emotional traumas like other girls in the same profession. They seem like normal women doing their job...and liking it. I don't want to sound like a tourism rep. for the city, but this is my favorite place in Mexico by far. The women in Morelia beat all others.

Well, this was kinda long, but there was a lot to say...until next time:

THE HAPPIEST MAN ALIVE says: "Stay safe and Happy Hunting!!!"

hello miller2k!!!

hey, thank you for the great posts on morelia yet again!!!

for some reason, i haven't been able to get into the archive files. i haven't tried tonight, but last week and the weeks prior haven't worked. so, this recent post of yours along with the second below have been great. i'm printing them out and logging them for when i'm in morelia again ;)

i'm still mixed as to which city to choose... morelia has what you have described plus the large female college student population and night clubs. guadalajara has more "flexibility" with the $350 peso massage parlor action that you and proko have described. and uruapan (the city i am most familiar with) has several locations of strip clubs and a very "bargain basement" area that also serves beer at the latest hours where you can hook up with a lady for about $300 pesos and take her to your place for the night or a few hours for that price. but we're talking scraping the bottom of the barrel as well as all the ladies coming from the above strip clubs who did not get enough money or action that night...

so... i think i'll just have to sample them all -- uruapan first for a few months, then guadalajara perhaps for a few and probably morelia in the end and then make the choice :)

uruapan is a good city, though it has grown a lot recently. you need good spanish skills to negotiate with the ladies there. i still hope to post more info on uruapan. i am planning a short trip to mexico in march perhaps and i will probably sample some senoritas in uruapan and at that point i can post some truly current information. the ruling party (pan) has been a bit stern against prostitutes because they are the most religiously afiliated. however, for at least 2 mayoral terms (6 years) since they came to power, the campanita (name for the cheap $300 peso hookup open late, late, late at night and a genuine cantina with dirt floor and outhouse-like bathrooms) was located about 2 city blocks from the presidencia (city government buildings). that may have reflected the pri's preferences, however ;)

but striking out at all other places or if you're super low on pesos and willing to risk your health (wear a condom, please!) the campanita is the place to go. all-local, and you really need to know your spanish. taxis go there and plenty of taxis are there, but the action starts very late -- about 1:30am and onward. do not try to engage the resident sw, she will play with you, but she's dating the main bouncer. i wasted some $$ on drinks for her while i was waiting for the action to start and she flitted away often to hang with her boyfriend. you do not want to boink the main bouncer's girlfriend, not a good idea.

also, we're nearing the time of year that it is not good to go to uruapan. a lot of locals return from the u.s. in their regular migratory pattern for xmas in early to mid november. they come back fat with dollars and ready to score since u.s. women are not that interested in mexican migrant workers. rest assured these ladies are... so the competition is steep and ladies get swept up and away. face it, your dollars are just as green as the other guy's and they speak better spanish than you generally. for that reason i cannot recommend pursuing the hobby in uruapan in the mid to late november month, december and january months. i tried the late november thing last year and it was atrocious at the campanita. i ended up leaving because there were too many guys! (though there were girls a plenty, it was hard to tell who was being "sighted" by other guys and you definitely do not want to [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140][CodeWord140][/url] anyone off in this place). i should have gotten my gal early on and maybe paid more than the standard $300 to get her to stay with me the night. but i did find a very nice gal the next day at one of the strip joints just as it closed and got her for $700 pesos for about 2 hours at my hotel room. the name of the strip club was, appropriately named, "tabledance". ask any taxi driver at night about this and other like clubs and they will take you to one.

well, that's my mini-report. be aware that some women will attempt to have sex with you without a condom. don't do it, no matter how tempted you are. i did have one give me an uncovered bj back about 3 years ago in uruapan, but i had been going to her a few times and i was o.k. with her doing that. however, i have to mention this because it is really important. (and since that time i've tested negative for everything thank god!)

because of the migrant farmwork and "bracero work" that the mexican men from certain areas of mexico do and how they see sex workers in the u.s. and catch diseases here in the u.s. from whatever source, they're taking those diseases back to mexico with them and they tend to infect their spouses at home and the prostitutes they go "blow their wads" around xmas time with. so, please... wrap your present up with latex so you don't get a surprise yourself that you won't like.

i hope the info on this post was helpful. let me know if you have more specific questions about uruapan and i can post replies in the appropriate section. the 24 y/o womanl i met last year there is no longer working at the "tabledance" and has written me a few times and says she is no longer working as a sw and has moved back in with her parents with her two children. she's a sweetie though and i really do enjoy writing to her and hearing from her. one of my main goals on a future trip to uruapan will be to get her to use the internet :) she's definitely a gem of a friend that i want to keep as a friend (maybe even with "benefits" ;) :)

hasta pronto!

10 months and counting to my hopeful move to mexico!

el mojado