German FKK Clubs - Lounge and chat area

What's eye popping in that report attached by PL are the average per hour disparities between cities, and how high are the numbers in the US. And compare them to the hundred per, in FKKs. And it does not even account for quality and service differences. The FKK experience is cheaper and better by orders of magnitude.

And then do the same comparison for other product and service cost differentials between US cities to Frankfurt or Other German cities. A meal for two, a hotel room, cost of car rental or whatever. My experience in EU is that US is cheaper in general on most things, especially when you normalise for quality. At the same price, rooms in Europe are smaller and less nicer, restaurant food is more expensive and smaller portions, service so so, yadda yadda.

For an American male, especially at today's exchange rate, the FKK experience and price can't be beat. My (non scholarly) view is that this is probably due to the taboo on sex and paid sex in the US, and how difficult the society makes this to be available. The US is the most consumer driven society and economy in the world, and all our structures are set up to consume more and more, at cheaper and cheaper prices, except sex. Of course, there is hypocrisy in this as well. Our TV commercials and TV shows, literature, indeed our whole culture is obsessed with sex, but the actual availability of sex and particularly in paid form, is very limited and constrained, and in most places, technically illegal.

[QUOTE=MrManGuy;1788574]Pretty much this. Also, in Germany, good luck if you're not German.[/QUOTE]That's BS. I'm not German, but I am from the EU and I live and work in Germany in highly skilled profession (not finance!) without any problems. Germany as a whole is a very inclusive society now and if you take into account things like its excellent health and transport system and high life quality and it is much better than the USA. God forbid if you get a chronic illness in the USA and your health insurance won't cover it. You're fucked! I have a lot of American colleagues and almost all of them decide to stay in Germany as the lifestyle for middle-income earners is much better here. I asked one of them and she said unless you're in the top 10% of US earners there's no comparison between life here and in the USA. It's much better here!

As for P4P. Germany is the best all things considered IMHO.

[QUOTE=Jnpr30;1788650]What's eye popping in that report attached by PL are the average per hour disparities between cities, and how high are the numbers in the US. And compare them to the hundred per, in FKKs. And it does not even account for quality and service differences. The FKK experience is cheaper and better by orders of magnitude.

And then do the same comparison for other product and service cost differentials between US cities to Frankfurt or Other German cities. A meal for two, a hotel room, cost of car rental or whatever. My experience in EU is that US is cheaper in general on most things, especially when you normalise for quality. At the same price, rooms in Europe are smaller and less nicer, restaurant food is more expensive and smaller portions, service so so, yadda yadda.

For an American male, especially at today's exchange rate, the FKK experience and price can't be beat. My (non scholarly) view is that this is probably due to the taboo on sex and paid sex in the US, and how difficult the society makes this to be available. The US is the most consumer driven society and economy in the world, and all our structures are set up to consume more and more, at cheaper and cheaper prices, except sex. Of course, there is hypocrisy in this as well. Our TV commercials and TV shows, literature, indeed our whole culture is obsessed with sex, but the actual availability of sex and particularly in paid form, is very limited and constrained, and in most places, technically illegal.[/QUOTE]I defer to you on hotel rooms, but if you look at numbeo, rent is more expensive in America than Germany, a lot more.

I know it is conventional wisdom to say the US is cheaper, but I do not find this is the case in terms of eating out and drinking. I lived in the US for over a decade, having grown up there.

First of all, I love red wine and I find that wine in bars and restaurants in the US is more expensive than in Europe, even the UK and in Germany it tends to be even cheaper than the UK. A glass of crappy wine in the middle of Long Island is around $8 a glass. I won't give you European prices but this is not cheaper than in Europe.

Okay in Steak restaurants American style, the US is cheaper and the portions are larger and Lobster is mega cheap in the US compared to Europe. But if you talk about Spanish Tapas and traditional European cuisine, I bet you the old city of Dusseldorf is cheaper than the US. For the same quality restaurants in Italy are cheaper than their American equivalents, let me know if you disagree.

I really don't find, when you compare like for like that it is cheaper to eat out in the US.

For retail goods it is cheaper but not by a wide margin anymore.

In fact look at this.

[URL]http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=United[/URL]+Kingdom&city1=London&country2=United+States&city2=New+York%2 C+NY.

A big mac meal is cheaper in London than New York at the current exchange rate. London is by no means a cheap city.

Of course Norway and Switzerland are way more expensive than the good ole USA, but I would ask you to substantiate that eating out in France, Spain, Italy and Germany are more expensive when you compare like for like. Of course some things will be, like Lobster and enormous steaks. A 400 gram steak in Cologne in an Argentine Steakhouse cost me 30 dollars, what would that cost in the US now?

Living space is smaller in general, but rent is particularly low in Germany for a variety of reasons.

[QUOTE=Samplerr;1788585]Depends on what you do. There's plenty of foreigners in well paid jobs in Germany.[/QUOTE]Yeah broking firms and banks in Frankfurt are full of ex FKK girls making loads of money in management positions.

HB.

DI,

Ok, I did say, my non scholarly view, and mostly anecdotal, based on my own experiences. These comparisons, to be scientific and precise, one has to make all kinds of adjustments. Which basket of goods are we comparing, which two places,. Long Island may be a lot more expensive than Wichita, or Frankfurt should not be compared to Charleston, SC. I don't know about rents, never having lived in EU but when I checked in our beloved darmstadt, I think rents were running slightly more than 1 euro per sq ft per month. What is a roughly comparable place to Darmstadt in the US? Yes, in NYC suburbs rents would be higher on per sq ft, but NYC is not frankfurt. Also, perhaps I was thinking of other things too, such as shopping for clothes, electronics, perfumes, etc. Somehow, the US prices seemed cheaper, but perhaps my sampling was not accurate.

I would welcome others to chime in with their experiences. Perhaps I am off with my prior claim that the US cost of living is cheaper than in Europe; but think I would be on far safer grounds with my claim that sex is priced at a very cheap level compared to other goods and services in EU, as compared to the US, not to mention the ease and legality of availability.

[QUOTE=HessenBub;1788679]Yeah broking firms and banks in Frankfurt are full of ex FKK girls making loads of money in management positions.

HB.[/QUOTE]I never suggested they were, just pointing out that not all the decent jobs are reserved for the locals.

Here is a study of prostitution in Europe leading up to 2008. Anybody have a more recent study like 2014, that would be insightful.

"In Romania, the number of sex workers who have (previously or currently) left the country to work elsewhere is still substantial: 80% of nationals have worked in another country before returning to the sex industry in Romania. The main reasons given by sex workers for leaving the country are: the punishment of prostitution (through the penal code) and the consequent increase in police arrests; opportunities for better earning and better access to health services; better living conditions in other countries despite their migrant status"

[URL]http://tampep.eu/documents/TAMPEP%202009%20European%20Mapping%20Report.pdf[/URL]

Could be hidden costs as well. In the USA you probably have to live in a nicer neighborhood to avoid crime. If you value your safety, it'd probably be a good idea to live in the priciest American neighborhood you can afford. In Germany, it is less of a concern.

Here is a comparison between Munich and NY:

[URL]http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=United[/URL]+States&country2=Germany&city1=New+York%2 C+NY&city2=Munich.

$4223 (after taxes) in Munich is equivalent to $7400 (after taxes) in NYC.

[QUOTE=Samplerr;1788733]I never suggested they were, just pointing out that not all the decent jobs are reserved for the locals.[/QUOTE]My buddy who lives in Germany told me once that there's a law that protects jobs for locals. So im assuming its based on citizenship, not most skilled.

[QUOTE=Breadman;1788770]My buddy who lives in Germany told me once that there's a law that protects jobs for locals. [/QUOTE]Not vs EU citizens. Anybody else needs a working permit. Similar to what the US requires.

HB.

[QUOTE=Breadman;1788770]My buddy who lives in Germany told me once that there's a law that protects jobs for locals. So im assuming its based on citizenship, not most skilled.[/QUOTE]It sounds quite extreme to me, are you 100% sure?

I'm a foreigner in France, here, if a company hires one foreigner while there are local candidates, company must write a paper why they hire this one instead of a French guy. And of course, paying higher tax.

[QUOTE=Samplerr;1788733]I never suggested they were, just pointing out that not all the decent jobs are reserved for the locals.[/QUOTE]They are not, correct. Every EU citizen is free to live and work everywhere in the EU. But the decent jobs are reserved for we'll educated trained skilled people. Of which you don't find to many among Romanian hookers.

HB.

[QUOTE=HessenBub;1788774]Not vs EU citizens. Anybody else needs a working permit. Similar to what the US requires.

HB.[/QUOTE]That sounds more logical.

[QUOTE=HessenBub;1788584]60/30 min was right from the start when Artemis opened. It's the only FKK in Berlin. And it helped attract girls from other clubs for the first months, including free entry for the girls. So once the price was set, why lower it?

HB.[/QUOTE]Girl have to pay entry fee at Artemis, which is higher then us. I think they pay like 120 Euro including accommodation up stairs or even 140 euro I do not remember exactly.

[QUOTE=MrHo;1788790]Girl have to pay entry fee at Artemis, which is higher then us. I think they pay like 120 Euro including accommodation up stairs or even 140 euro I do not remember exactly.[/QUOTE]Same for other clubs, at Sharks they pay 115 incl. Accommodation. So that doesn't explain the 10€+/30 min compared to Hessen.

HB.