General Info

[QUOTE=Yanqui69;1870287]Oakie,

Thank you for your defense but it is unnecessary. Like "SubCdr" you make the assumption I hang out in Sosua.

Reality is, I haven't looked for a woman there in over a decade.

I have seen more of the country than my attacker assumes, though, of course, I'm not a resident.

See my supporting argument in the previous post.[/QUOTE]You don't need defending.

I'm just guilty (sorry!) of using your exchange as an opportunity to spread a different take on DR and it's people, based on my 8 years of interaction with local extended families all over the Island.

Their culture is always considered "corrupt", but it is "corrupt" at every level and to me it's more of a "propina" based culture, almost a free enterprise system, because they are all involved in it, and they all know how to play the game.

In North America, there's a lady about to become President of The United Sates of America, the most powerful job in the world.

She went from "Dead Broke" to amassing a family slush fund worth $5,000,000,000.00 in just a couple of years in politics.

It's all relative.

In Sosua, a puta can steal a few pesos from an unsuspecting guy. In North America a relatively normal woman, can reduce her husband to poverty, take his kids, affect his employment, and even lie to put him in jail.

Go to Europe, where the "propina" is built in, (hidden), you won't find them willing to work so hard or be so helpful to you.

It's all relative.

I'm a lot happier down there with the folks, than I am up here in a large condo complex where people can die, and nobody knows, or cares about anybody and tries to force a smile in the elevator.

As for safety, compare it with most NA inner cities.

If it wasn't for the heat down there......:)

The sight of people standing around is common. However they are so poorly paid that all 3 combined wages would not support a decent life style for one person. They are powerless to do anything about it. 100 years ago unions in the US over turned the very same practices that you see in the DR. The smiles turn to tears when it comes time to pay their bills. There is never anywhere near enough.

[QUOTE=Taboc;1870478]When I was in one of the malls in SD, I saw three girls working in a coffee shop. In about two hours, may be they had 15 customers. I asked the girls whether it is a slow day and they said most days the business is similar. I am sure we will not have three girls working here if the business is that slow. I saw the girls relaxed, eating their home food, sharing among themself and another pregnant store keeper came in and they we rubbing her belly. To me it looked like they were socializing, not working. Sure, they make so less money when you compare to folks here, but then their quality of life seemed to be better. Take US and Canada out of the American map, citizens in all rest of the countries make same kind of money. So I keep thinking whether they are making less money, or whether we are making way too much money? When a chica was complaining, I can understand her feelings, don't get me wrong about that, I do understand their struggles. They should stop comparing with USA, and do that with next door neighbours.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Taboc;1870478]When I was in one of the malls in SD, I saw three girls working in a coffee shop. In about two hours, may be they had 15 customers. I asked the girls whether it is a slow day and they said most days the business is similar. I am sure we will not have three girls working here if the business is that slow. I saw the girls relaxed, eating their home food, sharing among themself and another pregnant store keeper came in and they we rubbing her belly. To me it looked like they were socializing, not working. Sure, they make so less money when you compare to folks here, but then their quality of life seemed to be better. Take US and Canada out of the American map, citizens in all rest of the countries make same kind of money. So I keep thinking whether they are making less money, or whether we are making way too much money? When a chica was complaining, I can understand her feelings, don't get me wrong about that, I do understand their struggles. They should stop comparing with USA, and do that with next door neighbours.[/QUOTE]Agreed in this case, that these girls weren't doing much to earn their pay, but given an apparently empty shop, not sure what they would have done. That attitude is common. If the owner was really concerned (or a better business man) he would put a manager in charge with instructions to implement.

That said, I have often been in large stores (ie, La Sirena) and seen loads of sales girls just standing in their departments, just watching. Presumably on hand if a customer needed assistance.

But while some jobs are easy for loafing, others are not. And a 6 day week is typical.

My novia worked an outside sales job for a plastics company, and on Saturday would return around mid-afternoon.

Normal workdays were about 10 hour days. All for a glorious $250 US a month.

Employers pay little, because they know they can. Complain, and there are 20 people that will jump to take your place.

Its true that the US, even with a huge wealth inequality developed over the last 30 years, is still a dream for most in the Western Hemisphere. They get by better than most, but I would guess at a standard of living that most on this board would not tolerate for long.

But the numbers don't lie. Living in a city, one pays utilities, food, rent, etc, that $200 a month won't cover. Better than many places in the world, but requires some cleverness to get by. I am at a loss as to how they manage. The novia says it is common that people receive gifts from family or friends living outside, in the form of money, or packets of clothes, toys, etc. (In her apartment building, over the last couple of years, two of the eight families living there moved to the US). She has also noted that a number of smaller businesses in Santiago have gone under, so the wealth concentrates in the hands of a few, and well financed businesses often are owned by very wealthy Dominicans, or is using money laundered from illegal activity.

[QUOTE=Oakie;1870635]You don't need defending.

I'm just guilty (sorry!) of using your exchange as an opportunity to spread a different take on DR and it's people, based on my 8 years of interaction with local extended families all over the Island.

Their culture is always considered "corrupt", but it is "corrupt" at every level and to me it's more of a "propina" based culture, almost a free enterprise system, because they are all involved in it, and they all know how to play the game.

In North America, there's a lady about to become President of The United Sates of America, the most powerful job in the world.

She went from "Dead Broke" to amassing a family slush fund worth $5,000,000,000.00 in just a couple of years in politics.

It's all relative.

In Sosua, a puta can steal a few pesos from an unsuspecting guy. In North America a relatively normal woman, can reduce her husband to poverty, take his kids, affect his employment, and even lie to put him in jail.

Go to Europe, where the "propina" is built in, (hidden), you won't find them willing to work so hard or be so helpful to you.

It's all relative.

I'm a lot happier down there with the folks, than I am up here in a large condo complex where people can die, and nobody knows, or cares about anybody and tries to force a smile in the elevator.

As for safety, compare it with most NA inner cities.

If it wasn't for the heat down there......:)[/QUOTE]"Go to Europe, where the "propina" is built in, (hidden), you won't find them willing to work so hard or be so helpful to you. " Amigo, really? On and off, I lived and worked in Europe for almost 10 years, and never encountered that. Individual cases, always exist, however.

You say Hillary has 5 Trillion dollars? Would love to see the sourcing for that information.

I agree that the culture in the US can be pretty cold and impersonal, with some exceptions. Much depends on the culture, big city, versus small town, etc. In Germany, France, Spain, for example, saying "Good Day," even to a stranger, is considered good manners. My speculation is that when there isn't much money, small things count for a lot. The novia and I had a very close call last fall, traveling the mountain road linking Santiago with the area east of Sosua.

The road is a nightmare, very steep and winding, often with a steep drop on one side and a ditch on the other. The brakes went out on her, and the vehicle ended stuck in a ditch.

The Dominican roadside assistance company was useless, likewise the two cops that showed up. After enough motorists passed the scene, about 5-6 guys stopped, looked it over and offered to help. Not one asked for a peso in return. They all pushed as it was hauled out, and one older guy who knew his shit, offered to drive it down the remainder of the mountain. The brakes had since cooled and were functioning again. Upon arriving at the bottom, the guy and his pal following in another vehicle refused to accept any money for their priceless assistance.

I also have to mention that I had to stay close to the vehicle and keep a sharp eye, because one character, separate from the others, kept hanging close to the vehicle, eyeing its interior, with pretty clear intentions to steal whatever he could. Living with little money can bring out the worst (and the best) in people.

Good post Yanqui69, especially that last sentence. I've noticed on the North coast that Dominicans have a more laid back, take it easy, do nothing attitude. Dominicans on the North coast never seem happy about having a job, it's like punishment. Good customer service is nonexistent. It's like they want money for doing nothing.

Santiago, I found Dominicans who smile and want to help you, they are proud of their city and want you to leave with a good impression. Maybe because they are more familiar with American customs and have the attitude that they stand above the rest of the DR cities. American financed opportunities are now going to Santiago but the sources are questionable (wink).

Santo Domingo is the New York of the Caribbean. I don't think it's as gringo friendly as Santiago but the people are go-getters. Street smart and witty, they crave taking advantage of a deal. Dominicans in SD with jobs seem to be playing the game but don't seem prideful but it in a big fast city everyone is looking for the next move.

Personally I think a gringo should think long and hard before opening a business in the DR, unless he has lived there for years and understands the dynamics of how Dominicans operate.

[QUOTE=SubCmdr;1870206]This is not true. Most Dominican's do not want to leave their country. Many would like to visit the US. But the idea of leaving their home and family is concept only held by the minority. I know many Dominican's with US visas that have visited the United States only to conclude that they didn't like it. Most want to go and visit family and see the country. Not live there.[/QUOTE]I was on the plane yesterday sitting next to a lady (about 40 years old) who was balling her eyes out. No idea why she was coming to the US, but she damn sure didn't want to leave DR. The lady she was with was holding her hand and told me that it was her first time going somewhere and she didn't want to leave her mom and dad and all her friends.

A girlfriend of mine in Puerto Plata mom has US residency. She stays in the US exactly the 6 months every year that she has to to keep the residency. The rest of the time she is home in DR.

I have helped a few chicks with the visa process (including the one whose mom I mentioned has the residency). In the end not one has wanted to go through with it. They all have different flimsy excuses instead of admitting they really don't want to go.

[QUOTE=Yanqui69;1870694]"Go to Europe, where the "propina" is built in, (hidden), you won't find them willing to work so hard or be so helpful to you. " Amigo, really? On and off, I lived and worked in Europe for almost 10 years, and never encountered that. Individual cases, always exist, however.

You say Hillary has 5 Trillion dollars? Would love to see the sourcing for that information.

I agree that the culture in the US can be pretty cold and impersonal, with some exceptions. Much depends on the culture, big city, versus small town, etc. In Germany, France, Spain, for example, saying "Good Day," even to a stranger, is considered good manners. My speculation is that when there isn't much money, small things count for a lot. The novia and I had a very close call last fall, traveling the mountain road linking Santiago with the area east of Sosua.

The road is a nightmare, very steep and winding, often with a steep drop on one side and a ditch on the other. The brakes went out on her, and the vehicle ended stuck in a ditch.

The Dominican roadside assistance company was useless, likewise the two cops that showed up. After enough motorists passed the scene, about 5-6 guys stopped, looked it over and offered to help. Not one asked for a peso in return. They all pushed as it was hauled out, and one older guy who knew his shit, offered to drive it down the remainder of the mountain. The brakes had since cooled and were functioning again. Upon arriving at the bottom, the guy and his pal following in another vehicle refused to accept any money for their priceless assistance.

I also have to mention that I had to stay close to the vehicle and keep a sharp eye, because one character, separate from the others, kept hanging close to the vehicle, eyeing its interior, with pretty clear intentions to steal whatever he could. Living with little money can bring out the worst (and the best) in people.[/QUOTE]The Washington Post, not known to be an enemy of Hillary, "The inside story of how the Clintons built a $2 billion global empire, By David A. Fahrenthold, Tom Hamburger and Rosalind S. Helderman June 2, 2015.

That was over a year ago, but the moderator here doesn't like links, so I'll just tell you to look up "dicoverthenetwork" Those links stretch far and wide into the developed and undeveloped world. They also had fingers in Haiti development of course. It serves as a holding tank for ex politicians, ex journalists (see journalists contributions to the Clinton Foundation) campaign staff, family and anybody who can be useful to them. Charitable works, not so much. See Haiti again :)

In the USA It is accepted and defended as nothing unusual, they are going to reward her with the Presidency, but in the DR their government is known as the "mafioso" which in my opinion makes them a quantum leap street smarter than the average North American.

They also don't see the point in looting, rioting, and burning down their own cities and places of business, so that's another factor in their favor.

Aside from that, there's the cheap sex.

And try putting a Charamicos resident, used to the street scene, music, dancing, open bars, family and friends on the street, into some condo in snowy weather up here, or in Germany, with no Dominican food, and you get the idea, that not a lot of them are keen to move out, unless the guy is rich. They'd much rather stay home with friends and family, stay relatively monogamous, collect the weekly remittance, enjoy the condo and maybe the motoconcho or even the SUV, and be satisfied being married whenever he can get away from the wife in Holland or Germany :)

But, as always, YMMV.

[QUOTE=Yanqui69;1870280]
However,

Rather than just providing your perspective, you make assumptions about me without knowing anything about me, and take the aggressive "flaming" attitude, not just offering a differing view, but trying to insult the writer. Uncalled for. Not sure what causes or justifies your attitude.

You presume I troll Sosua.

"But if you are sexual tourist, you probably haven't taken enough time from getting your dick off at the lowest possible price as many times as possible to look around and see the profound positive changes occurring in this country. ".

You know nothing about me.

Fact is, I haven't had a hooker in Sosua since 2005. Most of the last 7 or 8 years, I have spent my time in Santiago, not a sex tourist Mecca.[/QUOTE]I made no assumptions about you Mr. Yanqui. I said nothing about Sosua. And I said "IF". You say you are not a sex tourist. I accept that. But you are the one that felt to need to defend yourself publicly. I didn't say you were a sex tourist. Read carefully before you comment next time.

[QUOTE=Yanqui69;1870280]So, you're running your mouth in third gear, with brain in neutral.[/QUOTE]Actually, this is a written medium. So I didn't use my mouth in any gear. Furthermore your analogy is faulty. A gear implies a transmission. Wouldn't that make the brain the engine? Therefore it's possible that you intended to proffer the insult that "Your brain was at idle? I don't know you so how could I possible know what you were trying to say.

[QUOTE=Yanqui69;1870280]"The fact that you choose to associate with hustlers and scammers should not color your views of the entire country."

You know nothing about me, Sunshine, so ranting about what is "fact" is beyond your knowledge.[/QUOTE]You are correct with this point. I made the statement as fact. It was not. For that I apologize.

As for the rest of my post I stick by what I said.

[QUOTE=Yanqui69;1870287]Oakie,

Thank you for your defense but it is unnecessary. Like "SubCdr" you make the assumption I hang out in Sosua.

Reality is, I haven't looked for a woman there in over a decade.

I have seen more of the country than my attacker assumes, though, of course, I'm not a resident.

See my supporting argument in the previous post.[/QUOTE]Mr. Oakie,

Neither you nor I assumed that Mr. Yanqui hangs out in Sosua. It's Mr. Yanqui's hair trigger sensitivity that led him to make this knee jerk response. Furthermore he made the statement several more times and was not content to make his point and let it rest. I didn't attack him. I didn't say thing about the actual amount of time or knowledge that Mr. Yanqui has about the Dominican Republic. I just offered a different viewpoint than he has. He didn't like it. Got upset and struck back. He has now chosen to support his views through examples of personal experiences. That is good. I enjoy hearing about different experiences here. It is impossible for me to argue with the validity of empirical evidence. But rarely can we draw solid broad based conclusions from it.

[QUOTE=SubCmdr;1871130]Mr. Oakie,

Neither you nor I assumed that Mr. Yanqui hangs out in Sosua. It's Mr. Yanqui's hair trigger sensitivity that led him to make this knee jerk response. Furthermore he made the statement several more times and was not content to make his point and let it rest. I didn't attack him. I didn't say thing about the actual amount of time or knowledge that Mr. Yanqui has about the Dominican Republic. I just offered a different viewpoint than he has. He didn't like it. Got upset and struck back. He has now chosen to support his views through examples of personal experiences. That is good. I enjoy hearing about different experiences here. It is impossible for me to argue with the validity of empirical evidence. But rarely can we draw solid broad based conclusions from it.[/QUOTE]Looks like you two have worked it out. Great.

I'm a big fan of DR, so if I see a bunch of negative stuff, I'll try to add some balance, and remind them why they are spending big bucks to get down there.

While they haven't caught up with our society, they have a lot to offer, and after our relatively overregulated society, a little openness and personal freedom makes a nice change. And as for "smarts", I'd rather be shipwrecked with Dominicans. In fact I have been close :)

I like your observation, "I enjoy hearing about different experiences here. It is impossible for me to argue with the validity of empirical evidence. But rarely can we draw solid broad based conclusions from it".

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;1870708]I was on the plane yesterday sitting next to a lady (about 40 years old) who was balling her eyes out. No idea why she was coming to the US, but she damn sure didn't want to leave DR. The lady she was with was holding her hand and told me that it was her first time going somewhere and she didn't want to leave her mom and dad and all her friends.

A girlfriend of mine in Puerto Plata mom has US residency. She stays in the US exactly the 6 months every year that she has to to keep the residency. The rest of the time she is home in DR.

I have helped a few chicks with the visa process (including the one whose mom I mentioned has the residency). In the end not one has wanted to go through with it. They all have different flimsy excuses instead of admitting they really don't want to go.[/QUOTE]I was happy visiting down there, occasionally staying with local family. My regular always talked about visiting me. After a few years, one night over drinks, my buddy asked why she never came back with me (I'm single). She literally jumped out of the chair, Si!

Well, we fucked around trying to optimize dates, visa, insurance, and family issues for a couple years, and finally I got tired of the long and expensive trips to SD, where you could wait around for half a day. The money needed to be topped up often too, it had a way of leaving her account for emergencies (like food) :)

I lost interest, and what you just posted here, is probably just as valid an answer as to why it never happened. She lost interest too.

It would be like me, being invited to stay with a chica up in Baffinland Sounds like fun, but on second thoughts........

[QUOTE=Oakie;1871583]I was happy visiting down there, occasionally staying with local family. My regular always talked about visiting me. After a few years, one night over drinks, my buddy asked why she never came back with me (I'm single). She literally jumped out of the chair, Si!

Well, we fucked around trying to optimize dates, visa, insurance, and family issues for a couple years, and finally I got tired of the long and expensive trips to SD, where you could wait around for half a day. The money needed to be topped up often too, it had a way of leaving her account for emergencies (like food) :)

I lost interest, and what you just posted here, is probably just as valid an answer as to why it never happened. She lost interest too.

It would be like me, being invited to stay with a chica up in Baffinland Sounds like fun, but on second thoughts........[/QUOTE]Count your blessings and get rid of that friend who opened his big mouth and cost you all that money LOL. I don't know of any (I'm sure there are some) successful relationships of Dominicans moving to another country to be with a foreigner. I know of many relationships where they moved away briefly but were now happily back in the DR sola. With this said, only a fool does this in my opinion. Just go there and enjoy them in their culture where they are happy.

Let's look at it: ask yourself does she show interest in other cultures? Most Dominicans I know could care less about other cultures because they have been brainwashed to believe theirs is the best and only one that counts.

Can she be domesticated, can she cook and clean? Some can, most can't (I'm talking about under 30 yo).

Will she work or further her education? She will need structure and be serious about it otherwise she will get bored and miss home. Idle time will allow her to meet other Dominicans and unless you have a special girl, maybe start cheating. When the Dominican mailman starts delivering mail on Sunday, you have lost her.

Dominican families are tight so expect a monthly allowance for the relatives back home or you will not have a happy home.

Don't expect the sex to get better, she has already hit the jackpot unless you can find another carrot to dangle in front of her.

If she has more than one kid relocating with her, you are fucked.

If you are a naturally jealous guy, you are fucked. Dominicans like to look good and get attention. You knew this before you exported her.

The good thing is that when they realized this dumb gringo in love set her up by taking her out of her culture and ruined her life, she will be hauling ass back to the DR to be with Ramon and her Dominican cousins and not taking all your money with her.

For those who are trying to learn Spanish (the Dominican version) but still with a limited vocabulary, there is a useful word, "vaina". In other parts of the Hispanic world they say la cosa, meaning "thing" in English. It's really practical, because you can replace any thing you don't know with "la vaina". For example, if you don't know the word suitcase in Spanish, you can say, "esa vaina donde llevas la ropa, cuando viajas" (the thing where you carry your clothes when traveling). It's quite normal in DR to say it in that way and the beauty of the word is that the girls are not going to think that the stupid gringo can't speak proper Spanish, but they are going to think, that handsome, rich gringo speaks like a real Dominican.

Here is a Dominican self parody of the use of the word. [URL]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jyBj7dImx2I[/URL].

[QUOTE=Nordico;1871715]For those who are trying to learn Spanish (the Dominican version) but still with a limited vocabulary, there is a useful word, "vaina". In other parts of the Hispanic world they say la cosa, meaning "thing" in English.[/QUOTE]I just want to add a cautionary tale. When I first heard "vaina", I thought they were saying "vahina" - in other words referring to vagina, which created not a few funny and confounding situations. Beware!

[QUOTE=Tempoecorto;1871788]I just want to add a cautionary tale. When I first heard "vaina", I thought they were saying "vahina" - in other words referring to vagina, which created not a few funny and confounding situations. Beware![/QUOTE]LOL Better keep the letter "I" really short.