Seeking Arrangements

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2811096]What's the point of traveling with a girl? I do not get it. Look, for me SBs are strictly transactional. I am prudent in my spending and negotiate hard and look at the total cost inclusive of all the ancillary spend such as dinners, hotel rooms, gifts if included, and so on. Why fly SB x from place A to place be if I can use seeking to find new SBs in place be just as easily?[/QUOTE]I gave women $200 to $300 to hang with me for three of four days in Cancun. Getting a woman in Cancun costs that for an hour.

And if your visits are strictly transactional, you are missing out on the best sex there is. I have always said money is a minimum motivator. I don't want a woman who wants to suck my dick and say, "Well, I am not going to do that for you for less than $300. " I want one whom I have shown such a good time want to please me back.

I took three women to Xcaret in Cancun and they had so much fun they decided to pay me back and put on a show for me when we got back to our apartment and fucked and sucked the hell out of me. You could pay three women for a foursome but I guarantee you it would not be as good.

You really get to know someone when you take a trip. Many times I have dumped women after them, and many times the trips have made it us way closer.

I can see if you are married and had time issues why not to do it, but traveling has been when I have had the best sex and some of the most fun ever. Having a SB IMO is having fun with the women both in and out of the bedroom.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2811622]Traveling with an SB that I have already been with and that I trust, then. We can travel to a place together or meet there.

"Business trip" versus vacation. With a "business trip," I can do whatever I want during the day, and then drink with and sleep with my SB during the nights. Most of my business trips with an SB are fake business trips. I just want to bang other women during the day, or sightsee or do other things during the day. But there have been SBs that I enjoyed spending time with where I took them on short vacations, and this can be fun too, but it is rare for me to find an SB that I can spend all day and all night with.

One thing that I learned from traveling with an SB. I ask them to book their own room. I get my own room too. But I stay overnight in their room. I know this is fucking expensive, to pay for two hotel rooms, but there is a lot of benefits to this, which I do not think I need to explain, but if you do not see the benefits to this, then you can ask and I will explain.

I usually ask the SB to pay for the flight or train, and to pay for their hotel room, and I will reimburse them. I have also booked their flights myself. I try to avoid fronting them money to pay for travel and hotel, unless I know them really well. The hard part for me is to figure out how much additional money to give them. It is usually double their PPM amount, times the number of days.

But yeah, if I find a SB that I think is very fun and I think genuinely likes me, then traveling with an SB can be very fun, especially if I can spend some time away from her during the day.[/QUOTE]I think we are all aligned that a trip w your lady is awesome. I remember a couple years ago when we started all this that MW you and I discussed what would be right for allowance in this situation. I've got a couple more visits under my belt and got to say the double PPM surprises me. The girls seem to understand the trip is expensive and adjust expectations accordingly. I've paid close to full PPM (but per day) in some cases but also done half PPM or with Shayla who is pretty much my mistress there was no PPM at all. For those of you embarking on this I kinda keep the lingo away from PPM and also lower expectations due to trip cost. I say something like "Obviously the trip is a bit expensive but I'the want to give you some daily spending money, like $200/ day. " This has worked in the past because I think the trip is exciting for them.

About to try this with Smoke Show who is a legit model but we've only spent a few hours together. She's already said she'the travel with me. Recall she wanted 1000€ our first date but said 400 was ok with no overnight. Of course she hadn’t met me yet (!) and We will be going to a pretty awesome destination. I doubt she'the take less than 400/ day (if she even takes that) but we shall see.

MW. Totally mystified by the two rooms thing. I adore cuddling my girl all night and think she would be shocked and insulted if I suggested separate rooms. Maybe this is a cultural thing? Do tell us more. I am quite puzzled.

I am not him, but I guess he tries to not get emotional attachment to his SB. Not a bad idea actually, to keep a little distance and keep it like business transaction. Cause at the end we have to say goodbye, it could be easier than with what I am doing right now.

Funny enough, I used to be against the whole overnight thing, because I value sleep more than the ladies! Haha. I guess I am fairly fragile when it comes to rest, so the "numb arm" isn't my favorite, even if I love cuddling while awake. With my first Seeking (that happened to go overnight), I wasn't thinking snuggle, I was just trying to get some sleep, even though she was totally up for "hugging" all night. The thought of having sex and possibly going to my own room afterwards is a bit strange sounding, curious as well (I'm definitely cool with overnights if I can sleep ok now).

That being said, in chatting with a bunch of boate / Scandallo regulars, I'm trying to figure out a similar / complementary "daytime" program, which is probably more SB territory?? I like the idea of the club set ups, but after travelling overnight and then staying up looking for the ladies, and then having bedroom action, it feels like I'm on the graveyard shift. Am I the only one? I used to go clubbing all the time, but mainly because I knew so many people socially and I enjoyed the music. Now, I would be going in spite of the late nights and loud music to meet the fine ladies. Mind you, it's also because of some mandatory morning meetings I have that really don't help. I guess once you have contacts, some might be into going for lunch and afternoon action or dinner / early evening or doing touristy things.

Back to travelling: I could see needing a break from my companion if I wasn't 100% into her or I was super introverted / need tons of variety. Why not threesomes, ha? I have found that if the bedroom action / pillow talk and dinner / drinks works well, hanging out all the time usually isn't a problem until an issue arises.

Good points on the non-transactional approach to giving "spending money" and hopefully the good bedroom results. Interesting how a short trip is also the next-stage interview, ha!

Topic 1. Why I get two rooms when traveling with an SB.

This is when I tell the SB that I am going on a business trip and invite her to come with me (but half the time it is a fake business trip). And so she understands that I need to have my own room. But why do I get two rooms? Here is why.

First, I just cannot spend 24 hours a day with anyone, including a fun young hottie. Eventually, I need to catch my breath and have some alone time. I guess I can make an excuse and go out on my own, but most of the time I just want to chill in the room, catch up on work on my laptop, reply to emails, call someone, watch tv, take a nap. I want my own room to do this. And so, when I get tired of her, or want to be alone, I tell her that I have to go to work, but really I just go to my own room. So I get two rooms. She gets her own room.

Second, I definitely do this if I am trying to hide my true identity. If we book one room for the two of us, then there is almost no way to hide my identity from her, especially for several days in a row.

Third, I just do not want to worry about something unforseen. Maybe someone like my family calls my room and I am out while my SB is in the room and she picks up the phone. Or maybe she leaves her panties in the room and when I return home the hotel mails the panties to my home. Or maybe she just destroys the room, LOL, I do not know. I just do not want to worry about any of this shit.

Fourth, if it is a real business trip, then of course I cannot have her staying in my room. Too many times, my colleauges will say, "let's discuss this in your room" or "let's have a drink in your room before we go out for dinner' etc.

BUT, I crash in her room every night, that's for damn sure. Sleeping with her is one of main reasons for traveling with her. And ideally we did some partying before going to bed. Not just because I love having a good time with a gal, but one of my favorite things is drunk sex.

Topic 2. What to pay an SB when traveling with her.

I agree with everything that Steve said. We should not have to gift them a ton of "spending money" because we are paying for their travel, accomodations, meals, and fun times. Off the top of my head, I can recall four SBs that I took short vacations with. This was when I was at the home office in the states. I did not give them much spending money because they were all stoked to take a vacation and have a fun time. But there were some exceptions. For example, what if they have a job and then they have to take time off from work? What if they are an hourly worker? Then reimbursement for lost wages becomes a factor.

However, for me NOW, when I travel with an SB, they are mostly fake business trips (see my comments on topic 1 above). And so, to caculate the gift money on top of reimbursing travel and hotel room, I think about their possible lost wages, AND I MOSTLY think about how they are going to spend many hours every day on their own in a strange city without any friends and without anything to do, and how they are essentially on call for my needs. As Steve mentioned, he and I discussed this topic in some details a couple of years ago. I eventually landed on paying them 1. 5 to 2 times what I give them for PPM. How did I come to this figure? Well, the market rate in China for overnight with a WG is 3 times their PPM rate. But my SBs are not WGs, and so they do not expect 3 times. But I figured that if I am giving them X amount for a couple of hours, then I should give them 1. 5 to 2 times that amount for 24 hours. Especially since I abandon them for much of the day. In addition, a couple of my SBs have to get up early and then travel all day to meet me at our destination, and so I kind of feel bad about that.

What do you guys think?

Actually that's totally logical.

I have done all day sessions with girls before. Afternoon through following morning. And what you're describing is exactly what happens. These are not worldly girls. Let's be honest. For the most part they're simple people. And so you have to really carry the conversation if it's going to be any good. Last date I had the only thing that animated this girl was when she was talking about this crappy reality tv show she watches. If I could have shelved her till sex time I would have.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2812106]Topic 1. Why I get two rooms when traveling with an SB.

This is when I tell the SB that I am going on a business trip and invite her to come with me (but half the time it is a fake business trip). And so she understands that I need to have my own room. But why do I get two rooms? Here is why.

First, I just cannot spend 24 hours a day with anyone, including a fun young hottie. Eventually, I need to catch my breath and have some alone time. I guess I can make an excuse and go out on my own, but most of the time I just want to chill in the room, catch up on work on my laptop, reply to emails, call someone, watch tv, take a nap. I want my own room to do this. And so, when I get tired of her, or want to be alone, I tell her that I have to go to work, but really I just go to my own room. So I get two rooms. She gets her own room.

Second, I definitely do this if I am trying to hide my true identity. If we book one room for the two of us, then there is almost no way to hide my identity from her, especially for several days in a row.

Third, I just do not want to worry about something unforseen. Maybe someone like my family calls my room and I am out while my SB is in the room and she picks up the phone. Or maybe she leaves her panties in the room and when I return home the hotel mails the panties to my home. Or maybe she just destroys the room, LOL, I do not know. I just do not want to worry about any of this shit.

Fourth, if it is a real business trip, then of course I cannot have her staying in my room. Too many times, my colleauges will say, "let's discuss this in your room" or "let's have a drink in your room before we go out for dinner' etc.

BUT, I crash in her room every night, that's for damn sure. Sleeping with her is one of main reasons for traveling with her. And ideally we did some partying before going to bed. Not just because I love having a good time with a gal, but one of my favorite things is drunk sex.

Topic 2. What to pay an SB when traveling with her.

I agree with everything that Steve said. We should not have to gift them a ton of "spending money" because we are paying for their travel, accomodations, meals, and fun times. Off the top of my head, I can recall four SBs that I took short vacations with. This was when I was at the home office in the states. I did not give them much spending money because they were all stoked to take a vacation and have a fun time. But there were some exceptions. For example, what if they have a job and then they have to take time off from work? What if they are an hourly worker? Then reimbursement for lost wages becomes a factor.

However, for me NOW, when I travel with an SB, they are mostly fake business trips (see my comments on topic 1 above). And so, to caculate the gift money on top of reimbursing travel and hotel room, I think about their possible lost wages, AND I MOSTLY think about how they are going to spend many hours every day on their own in a strange city without any friends and without anything to do, and how they are essentially on call for my needs. As Steve mentioned, he and I discussed this topic in some details a couple of years ago. I eventually landed on paying them 1. 5 to 2 times what I give them for PPM. How did I come to this figure? Well, the market rate in China for overnight with a WG is 3 times their PPM rate. But my SBs are not WGs, and so they do not expect 3 times. But I figured that if I am giving them X amount for a couple of hours, then I should give them 1. 5 to 2 times that amount for 24 hours. Especially since I abandon them for much of the day. In addition, a couple of my SBs have to get up early and then travel all day to meet me at our destination, and so I kind of feel bad about that.

What do you guys think?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=AmericanPi;2812111]Actually that's totally logical.

I have done all day sessions with girls before. Afternoon through following morning. And what you're describing is exactly what happens. These are not worldly girls. Let's be honest. For the most part they're simple people. And so you have to really carry the conversation if it's going to be any good. Last date I had the only thing that animated this girl was when she was talking about this crappy reality tv show she watches. If I could have shelved her till sex time I would have.[/QUOTE]Ah MW. I get the two rooms now. It's not two bedrooms. It's one bedroom and an office / hideout. That def works if you can afford it (which apparently you can!

On the $$/ day I just don't see paying that much. I guess it depends on geography tho. Like I paid Thifany $1000 for the week. Which isn't bad coin for a brasileira. But if I have a US girl at 500/ night I can't see paying her $1000/ day for 4 days or even $500/ day. Maybe 1200 for 4 days or something. I guess it just depends on the sitch. But 1. 5-2 x is out of the realm of possibilities for me.

[QUOTE=AmericanPi;2812111]If I could have shelved her till sex time I would have.[/QUOTE]LOL. Yep, that's how I feel with many SBs. However, I have found some that I can actually hang out with though, but that's because they are either funny and fun, and / or it is because they love to drink.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2812227]On the $$/ day I just don't see paying that much. I guess it depends on geography tho. Like I paid Thifany $1000 for the week. Which isn't bad coin for a brasileira. But if I have a US girl at 500/ night I can't see paying her $1000/ day for 4 days or even $500/ day. Maybe 1200 for 4 days or something. I guess it just depends on the sitch. But 1. 5-2 x is out of the realm of possibilities for me.[/QUOTE]Upon some reflection, you are totally right. One of my favorite SBs in the states was 400 PPM, but she came out to meet me on a business trip and I gave her 1000 total for 4 days, so only 250 per day, even though her PPM was 400. I did similarly with other SBs in the states. This logic works out because my SBs were not meeting SDs every day, and so gettting 250 for 4 days in a row was a good deal for them.

I now figured out my error on how I landed on 1. 5 to 2 times PPM when traveling with a gal in China. The first gal that I traveled with was someone who had recently retired from being a WG. She had worked for an outcall agency and was used to meeting two johns per day, three weeks per month (the other week was time off due to aunt flo visit). After she retired from being a WG, she moved back to her hometown, bought a condo, and got engaged. But she and I always hit it off and when I asked her to meet me, she said yes, and that is when I started struggling with how much to give her. It was at that time when you (Steve) offered your ideas on what to pay. Somehow, I came up with 1. 5 times her PPM rate times number of days. I thought this was fair given what she used to make as a WG. Anyway, since then, I have traveled with other gals in China, and now that I think of it, they did seem pleasantly surprised by how much I gave them, and so I guess I have been overpaying while in China. I wish I can travel with the SBs that I currently have (both young with rocking bods) to see what they would accept. Neither is a WG. The are both PPM arrangments. I bet they would take about half of the PPM rate per day times the number of days. But given that both do not drink, I have no desire to travel with them.

BTW, one problem with traveling with SBs, to play devil's advocate, is that quite often we have very incompatiple sleeping schedules. Many SBs stay up late until 2 am or 3 am or even 4 am, looking at their phones, and wake up at around 10 am or later. But for me, I go to bed usually at around 11 pm and wake up at 6 am or 7 am.

[QUOTE=DjTan;2811799]I am not him, but I guess he tries to not get emotional attachment to his SB. Not a bad idea actually, to keep a little distance and keep it like business transaction. Cause at the end we have to say goodbye, it could be easier than with what I am doing right now.[/QUOTE]After I read your last sentence, I re-read some of your earlier posts. Seems like you are totally into your SB. I think most of us have fallen in love with a WG or SB. I know I have. I remember one time when I was working in SE Asia, I took a short vacation and took one of my favorite WGs with me. While we were laying on the beach, I noticed a lot of thin scabs on her legs. I immediately recognized what they were, she was a cutter, someone who cuts themselves. I asked her about the scars, and she said that she hates her life and so she cuts herself. Man, I immediately fell in love with her as soon as she told me that. At the end of our trip, I gave her an extra 3 grand USD. She could not believe it. I stopped seeing her, but I did not feel guilty about it becuase I gifted her so much cash. But one day I ran into her, and she begged me to marry her. She said she wanted to make a family with me. She had a ring on her finger, it was made up of two rings that snapped together. She took one ring off and gave it to me. She said these two rings will find a way to be together again. For the next several years, she would text me every once in a while, but I ignored her. This all happened over ten years ago. Guess what? About a month ago, I somehow came across her ring. Made me feel a bit sad.

But now I am totally jaded. I might sometimes feel sorry for some gals, but that is the most that I will feel for a gal these days.

Your post speaks to a dynamic we don't talk about it because it's not comfortable.

The reality is, if you're on the male side of this equation, you probably have a career and resources and a future.

On the other side, maybe some are just paying for their university studies, but most are living the kind of lives they will still be living in 15 years. Doing nails or hair, retail, etc. Every once in a while, you realize you're being looked at as a potential off ramp. Not always but sometimes.

A year ago in Mexico a girl started to try to BB me. I know some of you are into it, but that's not my jam. It immediately set off alarm bells, like "oh she wants be pregnant."

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2812321]After I read your last sentence, I re-read some of your earlier posts. Seems like you are totally into your SB. I think most of us have fallen in love with a WG or SB. I know I have. I remember one time when I was working in SE Asia, I took a short vacation and took one of my favorite WGs with me. While we were laying on the beach, I noticed a lot of thin scabs on her legs. I immediately recognized what they were, she was a cutter, someone who cuts themselves. I asked her about the scars, and she said that she hates her life and so she cuts herself. Man, I immediately fell in love with her as soon as she told me that. At the end of our trip, I gave her an extra 3 grand USD. She could not believe it. I stopped seeing her, but I did not feel guilty about it becuase I gifted her so much cash. But one day I ran into her, and she begged me to marry her. She said she wanted to make a family with me. She had a ring on her finger, it was made up of two rings that snapped together. She took one ring off and gave it to me. She said these two rings will find a way to be together again. For the next several years, she would text me every once in a while, but I ignored her. This all happened over ten years ago..[/QUOTE]

Now the girls are asking for 500 or more. One told me she wanted 1500 bi-weekly for 2 get togethers (sex). I told her she was had "over valued herself".

The other girl thinks she are worth 500 so I countered at 400 with one and she accepted last night, she was chubby without clothes on and required me to use a condom for the pussy hole, so I could tell she was a pro. I am going to ghost her.

Another said she was worth 500 and I met her at a restaurant briefly, she looked ok. In the bedroom she was very fat, turned out she was 7 months pregnant, and I could not keep an erection because of that and her comments every 2 minutes that I could not keep an erection. I dropped her the next day, texted her and her response was "why?" I said it was obvious my body did not respond to her pregnant body and pecks on the lips, no passion.

The girls are becoming more like prostituties and no longer students, young professionals or normal young women. They all start at 500 for a sad fuck, no passion, just dead fish in the bedroom. Sad.

[QUOTE=AmericanPi;2812429]
A year ago in Mexico a girl started to try to BB me. I know some of you are into it, but that's not my jam. It immediately set off alarm bells, like "oh she wants be pregnant."[/QUOTE]A couple of years ago, I had an SB that was so into me, loved sex, and was hot with a great bod. The super weird thing was how easy it was to get her to be my SB and how she was totally happy to BB. I kept thinking that this was too good to be true. Well, I eventually found out that she was trying to get pregnant. Why she wanted to get pregnant is another story altogether.

About 9 years ago, when I first started using SA, I had an SB tell me that she discovered SA from a friend of hers that used SA. She said to me that her friend's SD accidentally got her friend pregnant, and that she decided to have the kid, and now the SD has to give her friend money every month and so her friend doesn't have to work, and how lucky that was for her friend. I fucking freaked out and decided to stop seeing her soon thereafter.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2812106]

Topic 2. What to pay an SB when traveling with her.

....... I MOSTLY think about how they are going to spend many hours every day on their own in a strange city without any friends and without anything to do ........ I eventually landed on paying them 1. 5 to 2 times what I give them for PPM. How did I come to this figure? Well, the market rate in China for overnight with a WG is 3 times their PPM rate. But my SBs are not WGs, and so they do not expect 3 times. But I figured that if I am giving them X amount for a couple of hours, then I should give them 1. 5 to 2 times that amount for 24 hours. Especially since I abandon them for much of the day. In addition, a couple of my SBs have to get up early and then travel all day to meet me at our destination, and so I kind of feel bad about that.

What do you guys think?[/QUOTE]In Colombia it has depended on what else I was paying for. I haven't done it a ton, but scenarios below.

1) Had a favorita from Barranquilla meet me at a resort near Santa Marta ( 1 HR away) by bus. Before travelling I asked her, her rate for that period, and she said she had never done the travel thing before and didn't know, so I actually proposed 1 x PPM for the weekend which was essentially 2 days. She went for it and we were together 24 x7. I think sex only 3 x (Friday night, Saturday 2 x, and Sunday left early). I ended up giving her approximately 1. 25 x PPM for the entire time and she seemed disappointed. She stopped responding to me shortly thereafter lol.

2) Flew a favorita from Medellin to Punta Cana for 4 days at resort. I paid for her flight and everything else. It was her first time leaving Colombia and we agreed to no cost and I spoiled her when she was with me. Lots of GFE sex the entire time. She got a large number if IG photos which she liked, a dress, and we had some incredible dinners and a boat ride. We are still in touch although she has a regular guy.

In Brazil, just one experience.

3) Had a favorita that I'd know for only a week in Copacabana, Rio join me at a Hyatt resort for the 3-day weekend that was about 45 minutes away. We agreed that I'd pay her 1. 5 x PPM per day. I think she enjoyed being able to take IG post pictures more than anything. I paid for all food, drink, a swimsuit, and a massage. This was Thursday afternoon through Sunday noon and paid her 4.5 PPM for ~6 sessions over those ~3 days. She was very happy.

In each scenario the girl was 21-26, no kids, with me 24x7 and very GFE. Most were working and studying a bit on the side so no complications or cost with kids.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2812579]A couple of years ago, I had an SB that was so into me, loved sex, and was hot with a great bod. The super weird thing was how easy it was to get her to be my SB and how she was totally happy to BB. I kept thinking that this was too good to be true. Well, I eventually found out that she was trying to get pregnant. Why she wanted to get pregnant is another story altogether.

About 9 years ago, when I first started using SA, I had an SB tell me that she discovered SA from a friend of hers that used SA. She said to me that her friend's SD accidentally got her friend pregnant, and that she decided to have the kid, and now the SD has to give her friend money every month and so her friend doesn't have to work, and how lucky that was for her friend. I fucking freaked out and decided to stop seeing her soon thereafter.[/QUOTE]I sometimes see posts on here that sound like "that's not my girl. My girl is different. We have something special. " And I enjoy the read but still roll my eyes a little.

Most of these girls, not all, know their lot in life. And it's not good. If your job consists of showing up to the swap meet 4 days a week and selling fake jewelry, chances are you wake up at 50 still doing that. And they know it. Because they do it with their mom. And there are few off ramps. And you might just be one. Because you show up with your nice shoes and passport and nice hotel room and it's clear you have a connection to a better place. Ain't nobody want to marry you but it's like wanting that first job and meeting an exec at a big company. You don't know how but that guy can enter you into the world.

Any guy who doesn't recognize that power differential in this relationship and thinks they're just 2 equals on a relationship journey together is willfully ignorant. Not saying do anything different. Just saying recognize what's happening in front of your eyes.

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