General Info

[QUOTE=OldKool;1881634]They took the plee so they could stay home. Probation for all time.[/QUOTE]Mr. OldKool,

Not on here to argue with you but to discuss. I agree with you. They probably took the plea because there was already an agreement for probation and they will be allowed to serve their probation in Florida. But they pleaded guilty to a felony and will probably have to register as "sex offenders". For what amounts to a moral law.

Here is the law they pleaded guilty to:

S 230.25 Promoting prostitution in the third degree. A person is guilty of promoting prostitution in the third degree when he or she knowingly:

1. Advances or profits from prostitution by managing, supervising, controlling or owning, either alone or in association with others, a house of prostitution or a prostitution business or enterprise involving prostitution activity by two or more persons in prostitution, or a business that sells travel-related services knowing that such services include or are intended to facilitate travel for the purpose of patronizing a person for prostitution, including to a foreign jurisdiction and regardless of the legality of prostitution in said foreign jurisdiction; or.

2. Advances or profits from prostitution of a person less than nineteen years old. Promoting prostitution in the third degree is a (class D) felony.

My personal feeling is that this law is unconstitutional. Specifically this part:

"including to a foreign jurisdiction and regardless of the legality of prostitution in said foreign jurisdiction".

I'm not a lawyer, especially not a constitutional one. But I know my way around the legal system. And that law has some very broad legal language in it. If someone wanted to stretch that, a best man from New York who sets up a bachelor party for the groom in the Dominican Republic involving prostitutes could be prosecuted. Why? Because he is ADVANCING prostitution. Yes, it is a long shot. But who would have thought New York would target a Florida based company.

At some point, the government is going to take on a hard target. A well funded, person or entity able to purchase strong legal representation. Those charged will take it all the way to the Supreme Court and the government will loose. It doesn't help this couple at all. But the idea that the US can control your actions outside of their jurisdiction is outrageous.

The US government can already kill you with impunity outside of its borders. You no longer receive any protection as a US citizen once you leave the country. This law allows them to prosecute you for an activity that you engage in legally outside of the country, simply by being a US citizen. There is a slippery slope here and I have a real problem with that.

[QUOTE=OldKool;1881634]They took the plee so they could stay home. Probation for all time.[/QUOTE]I think differently. They took the plea because they were guilty but had money for an attorney and got off lightly. Had I been guilty, I would have done the same. They probably got support from a lot of discreet clients.

[QUOTE=SubCmdr;1881685]
The US government can already kill you with impunity outside of its borders. You no longer receive any protection as a US citizen once you leave the country. This law allows them to prosecute you for an activity that you engage in legally outside of the country, simply by being a US citizen. There is a slippery slope here and I have a real problem with that.[/QUOTE]Of course you are right, but this is trivial compared with some of the USA's actions since WWII. Subverting democracy wherever it rears its ugly head and imposing dictators or stooges who have murdered or caused the death of countless millions. Current example is in Haiti where the US and its parasites are trying to stop fair and free elections being held so that they can install their own puppet again.

[QUOTE=SubCmdr;1881515]Manhattan the's Office saw the couple's advertisement on [URL]backpage.com[/URL] and set up a sting operation.
An undercover agent contacted the couple to arrange a bachelor party that included adult entertainment[/QUOTE]And this would not fly in the UK or most Western European countries where entrapment is only permissible in cases of national security.

[QUOTE=GrownMan1;1881693]I think differently. They took the plea because they were guilty but had money for an attorney and got off lightly. Had I been guilty, I would have done the same. They probably got support from a lot of discreet clients.[/QUOTE]I think you're right, except for the amount of support they received. Plea probably included turning over client list. BTW, bake page is owned by the village voice, so New York based company. They should have stuck to work of mouth. Most countries frown on sex tourism. They are lucky they didn't get locked up in the DR. For a bad situation they did pretty, pretty good.

I work in the system. I talk to folk every day who accept pleas because fighting will cost money and time. When you can see day light you take it. Innocent people are convicted every day. Nothing in a court room is guaranteed. The case against these folk looks to be very thin. Winning in court can cause you to lose in life. No jail time for a felony says a lot.

[QUOTE=GrownMan1;1881693]I think differently. They took the plea because they were guilty but had money for an attorney and got off lightly. Had I been guilty, I would have done the same. They probably got support from a lot of discreet clients.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=CharlesPooter;1881729]And this would not fly in the UK or most Western European countries where entrapment is only permissible in cases of national security.[/QUOTE]I never have understood how it is legal to set someone up like that. Then they call it conspiracy. Well shouldn't the cops be just as guilty because they were the other half of the conspiracy? If they were not there tempting me and egging me on then I would have never done XYZ.

[QUOTE=OldKool;1881746]I work in the system. I talk to folk every day who accept pleas because fighting will cost money and time. When you can see day light you take it. Innocent people are convicted every day. Nothing in a court room is guaranteed. The case against these folk looks to be very thin. Winning in court can cause you to lose in life. No jail time for a felony says a lot.[/QUOTE]And that is how fucked up the system is in the USA. It is not about justice; it is about money. I once went to court for a traffic signal violation. I said not guilty. This meant that I would have to go to jail for x amount of hours to be processed, post bond, then come back to do the court process. They said if I was guilty then I could just go to the cashier to make payment arrangements and go home. Seriously? An innocent person has to go through hell and high water, but a guilty one just let us know when you can pay the money and everything is cool. Guess which one I chose?

Another time I had a stop sign violation. If I would have just paid it would have cost me $110. But no. It is the principle of the thing. I went to court (and of course the judge, prosecutor, and cops work with each other every freakin day). I was found guilty and had to pay $600 plus do 40 hours of community service plus that damn probation officer fee until everything was completed. So the Florida couple was right for getting that shit out of the way. Who knows what would have happened had they gone to trial.

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;1881749]I never have understood how it is legal to set someone up like that. Then they call it conspiracy. Well shouldn't the cops be just as guilty because they were the other half of the conspiracy? If they were not there tempting me and egging me on then I would have never done XYZ.[/QUOTE]Brought to mind the immortal words of Marion Berry, "SHE set me up". Dude just wanted some pussy but she entrapped him to smoke crack cocaine. The rule of law doesn't apply to the real bltch (the police state)!

[QUOTE=Parkinsons;1881766]Brought to mind the immortal words of Marion Berry, "the bltch set me up". Dude just wanted some pussy but she entrapped him to smoke crack cocaine. The rule of law doesn't apply to the real bltch (the police state)![/QUOTE][QUOTE=MrEnternational;1881749]I never have understood how it is legal to set someone up like that. Then they call it conspiracy. Well shouldn't the cops be just as guilty because they were the other half of the conspiracy? If they were not there tempting me and egging me on then I would have never done XYZ.[/QUOTE]In New York.

40.05 Entrapment.

In any prosecution for an offense, it is an affirmative defense that the defendant engaged in the proscribed conduct because he was induced or encouraged to do so by a public servant, or by a person acting in cooperation with a public servant, seeking to obtain evidence against him for purpose of criminal prosecution, and when the methods used to obtain such evidence were such as to create a substantial risk that the offense would be committed by a person not otherwise disposed to commit it. Inducement or encouragement to commit an offense means active inducement or encouragement. Conduct merely affording a person an opportunity to commit an offense does not constitute entrapment.

When they advertised in New York via Backpage they showed they were predisposed to take part in the activity. So, when the authorities in New York contacted them they simply were affording them the opportunity to commit the offense.

Had Marion Berry declined the offer of the crack pipe and then was encouraged to do it he would have had an argument for an entrapment defense. He was still reelected. Got to love the how the will of the people always prevails.

[QUOTE=Nordico;1881684]That's what I said in my post, the most important thing is to be able to communicate and you have found your way to do it with them. more thaif my main reason for traveling nowadays is mongerining, it's not my only reason to go somewhere. Otherwise it would be just sun, cheap alcohol and pussy. I want a little bit more from my trips. I want to say "piropos" to my waitress in a cafeteria, hear how fucked up the local government is from my taxi driver, understand the local culture and people. My experience also is that you get better service from the girls and it's much more fun, when you speak their language. I understand why so many guys prefer ST and so many girls try escape after the first "papi leche", because we are social animals and it must be awkward to just stare each other into the eyes for prolonged time between nuts.[/QUOTE]Nobody is saying learning languages is a waste of money, or that it doesn't enhance your travel experience.

I specifically said, "unless you are just there to monger", a full course of Formal Spanish is not essential. (It can be costly and hard work, for the casual monger, and you'd still have to learn the local idiom and dialect)

I have satisfactory sex with women from all over the world, without knowing much more than "how much?" I find hookers are more impressed with my dinero, than the degrees or diplomas I may have.

I have also developed a long term relationship with a local and her extended family and friends, without much more than what I have picked up and gotten from the occasional reference to my cheat pocket guide.

You'd be surprised the fun you can have learning each other's language, and sometimes "no comprende" is a great way to finish an unwanted conversation.

[QUOTE=SubCmdr;1881685]Mr. OldKool,

Not on here to argue with you but to discuss. I agree with you. They probably took the plea because there was already an agreement for probation and they will be allowed to serve their probation in Florida. But they pleaded guilty to a felony and will probably have to register as "sex offenders". For what amounts to a moral law.

Here is the law they pleaded guilty to:

S 230.25 Promoting prostitution in the third degree. A person is guilty of promoting prostitution in the third degree when he or she knowingly:

1. Advances or profits from prostitution by managing, supervising, controlling or owning, either alone or in association with others, a house of prostitution or a prostitution business or enterprise involving prostitution activity by two or more persons in prostitution, or a business that sells travel-related services knowing that such services include or are intended to facilitate travel for the purpose of patronizing a person for prostitution, including to a foreign jurisdiction and regardless of the legality of prostitution in said foreign jurisdiction; or.

2. Advances or profits from prostitution of a person less than nineteen years old. Promoting prostitution in the third degree is a (class D) felony.

My personal feeling is that this law is unconstitutional. Specifically this part:

"including to a foreign jurisdiction and regardless of the legality of prostitution in said foreign jurisdiction".

I'm not a lawyer, especially not a constitutional one. But I know my way around the legal system. And that law has some very broad legal language in it. If someone wanted to stretch that, a best man from New York who sets up a bachelor party for the groom in the Dominican Republic involving prostitutes could be prosecuted. Why? Because he is ADVANCING prostitution. Yes, it is a long shot. But who would have thought New York would target a Florida based company.

At some point, the government is going to take on a hard target. A well funded, person or entity able to purchase strong legal representation. Those charged will take it all the way to the Supreme Court and the government will loose. It doesn't help this couple at all. But the idea that the US can control your actions outside of their jurisdiction is outrageous.

The US government can already kill you with impunity outside of its borders. You no longer receive any protection as a US citizen once you leave the country. This law allows them to prosecute you for an activity that you engage in legally outside of the country, simply by being a US citizen. There is a slippery slope here and I have a real problem with that.[/QUOTE]Good points, all!

Whatever happened to "When in Rome, do as the Romans do"?

[QUOTE=Oakie;1881903]Nobody is saying learning languages is a waste of money, or that it doesn't enhance your travel experience.

I specifically said, "unless you are just there to monger", a full course of Formal Spanish is not essential. (It can be costly and hard work, for the casual monger, and you'd still have to learn the local idiom and dialect)

I have satisfactory sex with women from all over the world, without knowing much more than "how much?" I find hookers are more impressed with my dinero, than the degrees or diplomas I may have.

I have also developed a long term relationship with a local and her extended family and friends, without much more than what I have picked up and gotten from the occasional reference to my cheat pocket guide.

You'd be surprised the fun you can have learning each other's language, and sometimes "no comprende" is a great way to finish an unwanted conversation.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE]sometimes "no comprende" is a great way to finish an unwanted conversation[/QUOTE]A bit rude though. "No entiende" is usually used if you do not understand the language, and "no comprende" is used more if you don't understand the significance of what the person is saying, although both phrases may be used interchangeably. So saying "no comprende" to end a conversations suggests "I don't care what you think. ".

[QUOTE=Frannie;1881913]A bit rude though. "No entiende" is usually used if you do not understand the language, and "no comprende" is used more if you don't understand the significance of what the person is saying, although both phrases may be used interchangeably. So saying "no comprende" to end a conversations suggests "I don't care what you think. ".[/QUOTE]OK Professor Frannie, I appreciate both your Spanish and your English lessons (and you know how much I need them).

I understand your points about how and why you would want to use both entender and comprender. But in either case if you wanted to say "I" wouldn't you want to conjugate the verb? So if you wanted to say "I don't care what you think". Wouldn't you say "No comprendo"? Or "No me importa lo que tú piensa" (Not important to me what it is you think) presuming you are familiar with the person you are speaking with.

Lo es una pregunta. Me espanol es muy mal. Ayuda un hermano. (It is a question. My Spanish is very bad. Help a brother). LOL.

[QUOTE=Frannie;1881913]A bit rude though. "No entiende" is usually used if you do not understand the language, and "no comprende" is used more if you don't understand the significance of what the person is saying, although both phrases may be used interchangeably. So saying "no comprende" to end a conversations suggests "I don't care what you think. ".[/QUOTE]Of course it's a bit rude.

I said it was a good way to finish an "unwanted conversation" Much more polite than actually saying fuck off. :)

[QUOTE=SubCmdr;1881944]Ok Professor Frannie, I appreciate both your Spanish and your English lessons (and you know how much I need them).

I understand your points about how and why you would want to use both entender and comprender. But in either case if you wanted to say "I" wouldn't you want to conjugate the verb? So if you wanted to say "I don't care what you think". Wouldn't you say "No comprendo"? Or "No me importa lo que t piensa" (Not important to me what it is you think) presuming you are familiar with the person you are speaking with.

Lo es una pregunta. Me espanol es muy mal. Ayuda un hermano. (It is a question. My Spanish is very bad. Help a brother). LOL.[/QUOTE]You're quite correct about the conjugation. (Yo) no comprendo means [B]I[/B] don't understand, and no comprende means you, he, she, or it doesn't understand.

You're mixing the familiar and formal in "no me importa lo que tú piensa" because tú is informal but piensa is second person formal or third person. So you want: "No me importa lo que tú piensa[B]s[/B]. " Then in your last paragraph you don't need the "lo. " Es una pregunta.