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[URL]https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/03/upshot/student-debt-big-culprit-graduate-school.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage[/URL]
Wowwwwwwww.
Sounds like they are operating off of the same script as hookers.
The consumer with no regard for the concept of value is really culpable and complicit.
[QUOTE=EihTooms;2331069]Thermae is a special challenge for getting an upfront commitment for anything off the basic, standard fare because the girls are standing or sitting close to other people. They aren't going to say yes to either of those requests if they think any other person on the planet heard you ask it or knows what you asked. I have even had girls on the left side gesture for me to come sit in a booth with them for a moment to have a more "private" conversation while there is some Japanese dude sitting right across the same table. LOL. Waste of time trying to talk about anything touchy there.[/QUOTE]Absolutely! On Soi 4 is the same. The girl is standing next to her friend. She is not necessarily openly going to agree to BBFS. Same anywhere I guess unless you can be sure your conversation is private. Even if someone overhears an offer of money well above the norm, then they will assume it is for something "special" or "Nasty".
Once you get to the room, many girls can't resist a bonus for BBFS, and yes some give in and provide for no extra charge. Girls are not smart if they give BBFS automatically to everyone, since they will catch something fairly soon. They need to come up with strategies to reduce the odds. I prefer girls that are not keen to give BBFS, and set a high premium for it, since they are less likely to have caught something. Regular tests helps too.
Girls have to also remember that regulars will expect BBFS every time if they ever got it. Would be smart to ask him to bring his recent test results.
Smart people also know that almost everyone lies about what things they have been doing sexually.
[QUOTE=EihTooms;2331069]
The other challenge with Thermae girls is many of them are mere P4P hobbyists, not fully committed to the business the way a go-go dancer, escort or even a FL standing on the street is committed to it. It is a very comfy part time gig to show up in Thermae whenever they feel like it and see if they can pick up an extra 2,500-3,000 baht for an hour doing as little as humanly possible. And if the rare punter asks them to actually do something, put themselves out a bit for the money, that does not fit the part time job pattern they expected or are used to.
[/QUOTE]That is a pity and also hard to understand a bit. In the old days 1990's, the girls usually did all night bookings, and seemed to be in it for the sex as well as the money. They could be quite passionate, they could refuse guys that did not appeal to them. I don't recall any poor girls from early on. Perhaps it happened and I forgot them, after sending them packing. I certainly remember girls so good, I had to keep repeating them.
Maybe in the early days girls realised the value of getting repeat business, rather than perhaps missing out on a booking, yet a remember a girl refusing so many guys and risking not finding one at all for the night (she was the friend of the girl I kept repeating). I suppose for all night bookings that compatibility between guy and girl becomes heaps more important.
Now the objective seems to be easy money quickies. Such a contrast from what Thermae was like in former times.
I would love to be able to go back to 1991 and repeat it, perhaps slightly differently, I had to learn some lessons too. Perhaps 1981 would be even better.
[QUOTE=Syzygies;2331145]That is a pity and also hard to understand a bit. In the old days 1990's, the girls usually did all night bookings, and seemed to be in it for the sex as well as the money. They could be quite passionate, they could refuse guys that did not appeal to them. I don't recall any poor girls from early on. Perhaps it happened and I forgot them, after sending them packing. I certainly remember girls so good, I had to keep repeating them.
Maybe in the early days girls realised the value of getting repeat business, rather than perhaps missing out on a booking, yet a remember a girl refusing so many guys and risking not finding one at all for the night (she was the friend of the girl I kept repeating). I suppose for all night bookings that compatibility between guy and girl becomes heaps more important.
Now the objective seems to be easy money quickies. Such a contrast from what Thermae was like in former times.
I would love to be able to go back to 1991 and repeat it, perhaps slightly differently, I had to learn some lessons too. Perhaps 1981 would be even better.[/QUOTE]I believe this is where Goatscrot's observations about a very different regular clientele today vs back then comes into play. That reality certainly helps me to understand why the girls are the way they are today vs back then.
[QUOTE=Syzygies;2331141]Absolutely! On Soi 4 is the same. The girl is standing next to her friend. She is not necessarily openly going to agree to BBFS. Same anywhere I guess unless you can be sure your conversation is private. Even if someone overhears an offer of money well above the norm, then they will assume it is for something "special" or "Nasty".
Once you get to the room, many girls can't resist a bonus for BBFS, and yes some give in and provide for no extra charge. Girls are not smart if they give BBFS automatically to everyone, since they will catch something fairly soon. They need to come up with strategies to reduce the odds. I prefer girls that are not keen to give BBFS, and set a high premium for it, since they are less likely to have caught something. Regular tests helps too.
Girls have to also remember that regulars will expect BBFS every time if they ever got it. Would be smart to ask him to bring his recent test results.
Smart people also know that almost everyone lies about what things they have been doing sexually.[/QUOTE]In BKK I don't want BBFS pse from a WG that gives that to everyone, that's a huge problem with AC everyone is getting BBFS, so I'm not able to enjoy DFK or DATY, even if I'm really turned on by her!
I prefer a WG that will take some coaxing in some manner, not to mention, I like to feel like she's treating me better than others LOL.
Not just a cum dumpster, for every monger in Asia, but yes they can lie, but I think I'm pretty good at guessing.
If she does this with every cock every session or not, I like to think intuition comes with experience.
As opposed to self-delusion!
[QUOTE=EihTooms;2330556]The dykie mamasan walked away and then I asked the still cuddling girl what we would do in the room for the 3,000 baht. Remember, I just did not want to go through any discussion about the minimum I require this night, didn't want to have the "condom" conversation tonight, didn't want to explain for the umpteenth time that I was not looking for a BBBJ that ends as a Hand Job instead of a Blowjob. I was not going to pay to jerk myself off on some part of her body and call that "great sex". I wanted her to at least say, "Anything" or "Everything" or "Up to you" or "Boom boom" or "Stare at the wall" or something, anything. But nope. Nothing. Apparently, she was actually demanding 3,000 baht ST for the DATY I said I wanted to do to her and NOTHING else. LOL.
So I thanked them both for their time, the girl and the dykie mamasan, paid my approximate 500 baht check bin, left 20 baht tip for the server, stood up and moved on.
Either that offer was in no way as "idiot-proof" as I thought it would be on a slow Monday night during Low Season or I had simply encountered two idiots on lower Sukhumvit who could not see any reason on Earth to accept it.[/QUOTE]Very interesting story this. I just think you made it too complicated. I am sure you know that most of these bar girls are simple farm girls from Isaan. Some are very clever, but they simply do not like complicated customers. Why do you think Koreans are so popular? I have asked this questions to bargirls many times and their reply. Apart from the easy-money / pay better / come in 1 minute aspect, it is always the same; falangs are complicated and ask too many questions. Koreans just smile and are happy and easy-going. They do not ask questions about their personal life or make complicated suggestions like the one you suggested. I am sure you know this and I am sure that you just wanted to play games with the girls this evening, but the story is a brilliant example of what many falang seems to miss; do not make it complicated. Smile, be happy, joke with her. Do not enter into questions on political issues, Thai mentality, her personal life etc. If she is not willing to lower the price, just walk away and try the next one. On a side note; I have a friend that visited Bangkok for the first time last year (he is over 50 years). He love to talk politics with everybody. So he started that also with go-go bargirls in Bangkok. After some time I had to tell him to stop. He just wasted his time. The girls are not interested, in general they have no idea of what is going on outside Thailand, and they could not care a rats-ass about politics or your opinion. So in the end he gave up.
[QUOTE=Aviator12;2331177]Why do you think Koreans are so popular? I have asked this questions to bargirls many times and their reply. Apart from the easy-money / pay better / come in 1 minute aspect, it is always the same; falangs are complicated and ask too many questions. Koreans just smile and are happy and easy-going. They do not ask questions about their personal life or make complicated suggestions like the one you suggested. [/QUOTE]Ha ha. I wish it were that simple. I don't ask the girl lots of questions, only the most basic, like will you go with me for short time? Etc. I never discuss details of the acts to be performed. I never ask the girls personal questions, other than maybe how old and which province they come from. I am easy-going and joke around. I have started to ask girls a bit about how long they have been in the bar, do they like Farangs or Asians better, etc. I try to gauge if they are experienced at fucking Farangs or complete newbies. I don't even ask if they have a baby. I can guess that for myself (mostly).
Maybe some girls are really liking my easy going nature, but that might be a small percentage. Girls may well have a very complex set of criteria and priorities in selecting a target customer. The criteria might not even be conscious. Many times has been said it matters how we dress, how we smell, are we polite, arrogant, etc. I think many girls do not see me as a stingy type and that is why I don't have to negotiate a price with all girls. Some have already seen how other girls that know me react to me, and may have heard gossip.
Despite my easy going nature, some girls are still going to prefer Koreans, probably younger and more handsome, maybe quick fucks I don't know, maybe known for paying well for very poor service, whatever. The girl does not know in advance that I fuck for a long time compared to average. We get undressed and they can get dick scared quite quickly if not used to Farangs. Then I can't fuck the girl who is maintaining her straight stiff legs starfish. It is just not going to work. I would prefer a limp relaxed star fish. That is the big danger if girl is not experienced with Farangs. In Thermae, we get a yes from some girls but with Farang surcharge. Already their attitude is apparent. It seems like they expect we will take longer and therefore should pay more, meaning the girl likes a quickie, more than likely. Plenty of times we see a bar girl go with customer and then return to the bar in 30 minutes or less (sometimes seems like 20 minutes), especially with Asian customers.
Some girls are just not doing Farangs at all. Maybe too many bad experiences and damage. We might collectively deserve our bad reputation, even if I am the easy going type. It is hard for me to imagine just how ugly or psycho guys can be in the way they talk to girls and treat them.
[QUOTE=Aviator12;2331177]The girls are not interested, in general they have no idea of what is going on outside Thailand, and they could not care a rats-ass about politics or your opinion.[/QUOTE]Very wise words indeed. I couldn't believe how oblivious Thai's were to what is going on in the rest of the world when I first came onto the scene. Twenty years later, nothing has changed.
[QUOTE=EihTooms;2331069]
I think the best chance for getting an upfront agreement there is to leave the bar with the girl and tell her what you want on the sidewalk outside away from other people.[/QUOTE]Are they never mad at you? Because by taking a girl outside she might get the impression that you've already decided to take her home. Or do you only say 'let's go outside to discuss things in private', or something like that, without agreeing to anything yet in the bar?
[QUOTE=EnjoyLife63;2331004]The best place to bareback girls in Bangcock? I will be in Thailand next week. I am now mongering in Colombia.[/QUOTE]Your hotel room? There is no best place for this. Just try to find girls in agogo's, in the streets or online who are willing to bareback. And read EihTooms' reports for example.
[QUOTE=Syzygies;2331145]In the old days 1990's, the girls usually did all night bookings, and seemed to be in it for the sex as well as the money. They could be quite passionate, they could refuse guys that did not appeal to them.[/QUOTE]Back in the day, the end-game for many (most) girls was getting married to a Farang, and they were also hoping to snag one or several long-term boyfriends who'd come a few times a year, and perhaps occasionally send money too. If you had a bit of chemistry with a girl, the session would often be more like a date, but with guaranteed sex. These days in Thailand it's mostly just helping you blow your load, as it is almost everywhere else in the world.
Current crop of girls is mostly not even interested in long time, let alone more extensive arrangements, and given most of them are bottom of the barrel, most punters aren't that interested in the latter either.
[QUOTE=Crocodilexp;2331237]Back in the day, the end-game for many (most) girls was getting married to a Farang, and they were also hoping to snag one or several long-term boyfriends who'd come a few times a year, and perhaps occasionally send money too. If you had a bit of chemistry with a girl, the session would often be more like a date, but with guaranteed sex.[/QUOTE]I worked for extended periods in Bkk during the late 80's and met lots of Thai women, many of whom were professionals with real jobs.
I have to say (in terms of Crocexp's comment reported above), that this group of Thai women were almost never interested in marriage with a farang UNLESS he planned to stay in Thailand. Relationships with farangs were welcomed and sought after as long as they could stay in Thailand. They didn't even wish to travel anywhere else.
The answer when asked "Why" was always "because me Thai".
That was all the logic needed.
[QUOTE=CzarNicholas;2331154]In BKK I don't want BBFS pse from a WG that gives that to everyone, that's a huge problem with AC everyone is getting BBFS, so I'm not able to enjoy DFK or DATY, even if I'm really turned on by her!
I prefer a WG that will take some coaxing in some manner, not to mention, I like to feel like she's treating me better than others LOL.
Not just a cum dumpster, for every monger in Asia, but yes they can lie, but I think I'm pretty good at guessing.
If she does this with every cock every session or not, I like to think intuition comes with experience.
As opposed to self-delusion![/QUOTE]It's their business to be able to read you and ascertain what you want and need. Most are quite good at it even if they seem out to lunch about so much.
I'd say you have just as much chance of contracting something here as you do in AC. Part of the game.
It's an illusion so don't delude yourself. But as illusions go, it's one of the best.
[QUOTE=Crocodilexp;2331237]Back in the day, the end-game for many (most) girls was getting married to a Farang, and they were also hoping to snag one or several long-term boyfriends who'd come a few times a year, and perhaps occasionally send money too. If you had a bit of chemistry with a girl, the session would often be more like a date, but with guaranteed sex. These days in Thailand it's mostly just helping you blow your load, as it is almost everywhere else in the world.
Current crop of girls is mostly not even interested in long time, let alone more extensive arrangements, and given most of them are bottom of the barrel, most punters aren't that interested in the latter either.[/QUOTE]Spot on. Gals expectations have developed along with the economy. 20 years ago most Thai gals thought they were ugly. Not true. Now many think they are the best looking things on earth. Also not true.
[QUOTE=RedKilt;2331241]I worked for extended periods in Bkk during the late 80's and met lots of Thai women, many of whom were professionals with real jobs.
I have to say (in terms of Crocexp's comment reported above), that this group of Thai women were almost never interested in marriage with a farang UNLESS he planned to stay in Thailand. Relationships with farangs were welcomed and sought after as long as they could stay in Thailand. They didn't even wish to travel anywhere else. [/QUOTE]That's true. Even today, most Thais of all social classes strongly prefer to stay in Thailand, although many don't mind going abroad for a holiday these days.
However, in the past, most women from lower classes of society would accept moving abroad as part-and-parcel of social and economic advancement that marriage to a (relatively) wealthy Farang would bring to her and the entire family. They would prefer if he stayed in Thailand and bought them a house of course. Or even better, just bought the house and sent money without staying.
This is in stark contrast with the Filipinas who's jump at a chance to live abroad, preferably permanently.