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I am really bemused by guys who think the P4P industry follows the free market system. How can an industry in a country where P4P prices increase during low season or during a period when there are less clients be a free market? That is the opposite of a free market if ever there was one. Its against the laws of supply and demand.
[QUOTE=Turgid;2335553]I am really bemused by guys who think the P4P industry follows the free market system. How can an industry in a country where P4P prices increase during low season or during a period when there are less clients be a free market? That is the opposite of a free market if ever there was one. Its against the laws of supply and demand.[/QUOTE]Well for a start you can't expect all girls to be the same price. They will go for what they can get, and depending on how difficult is the customer too. Don't expect them to drop the price when they know they can get more. Some girls on Soi 4 though, have to go for 1 K because no one will pay more. They just don't have the looks or performance.
Girls working in a fixed price MP will necessarily be mostly of a lower standard of looks because they could get more money elsewhere. However the girls still vary a lot. In Dozo, 80% of the girls just did not want to do me at all. Japanese / Korean / Chinese only. Dozo did not offer me a surcharge price. The 3 girls on offer were not sexy enough for my taste.
Low season, or economic crash, sees girls getting less customers, so they need to make more per customer than before. Somewhat reverse logic.
Sometimes girls are forced to leave a bar, because they can't compete with the other girls, and probably failed to offer customers super bargains. If they offered me a bargain, I would not take it. I want the pretty girls, even if not cheapest.
[QUOTE=Smoothy;2335532]You don't think free lancer pickups at local night spots is a negotiable free market price? In Jakarta, the price varies each night depending on supply and demand. If there are lots of guys there that night, the price is higher than the nights where there are very few guys. It also depends how many girls are there and how good looking they are. The hottest girls do charge more because they know they are higher demand. I can get a plain jane in the same bar for much cheaper. I have given the exact same girl different amounts on different nights depending on supply and demand that night. The price also drops drastically right around closing time if the girl hasn't found anyone to take her yet. Sounds like a free market to me.[/QUOTE]No I don't. In FL joints it is driven by what the gal thinks she is worth or deserves and a lot by peer pressure from her friends. She won't back off a price even if she is hungry. Jakarta gals are probably wise enough to come off those prices when needed. BKK, fat chance.
[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2335549]Another reason why Jakarta is so much better than Thailand on so many levels. Imagine trying to pay a Thai FL 1000 baht for ST when you previously paid her 1500 baht?
Thai train of thought is if a girl only gets 1 customer per night during low season when she gets 2 customers per night during high season she doubles her price during low season so she can make the same amount of money.[/QUOTE]Yes, same goes for many things here in LOS.
[QUOTE=Turgid;2335553]I am really bemused by guys who think the P4P industry follows the free market system. How can an industry in a country where P4P prices increase during low season or during a period when there are less clients be a free market? That is the opposite of a free market if ever there was one. Its against the laws of supply and demand.[/QUOTE]It disproves the law of supply and demand. It isn't a law, it's an idea. An idea that is often abused. And in Thailand it is just an idea sometimes. Normally not. Even in the shopping malls. I'm sure most of you know that the major dept stores in Thailand hold very little merchandise. They rent space to the brand's distributor, so that X brand at Central and X brand at Emporium is actually the same folks. That's why there is no real price competition and why you will see the same prices all over town. There has been a bit of improvement with some outlets opening up.
[QUOTE=Goatscrot;2335604]She won't back off a price even if she is hungry.[/QUOTE]I don't agree with that. Right now, guys still have not returned after the end of Ramadan so customers are sparse in Jakarta. The free lance girls have dropped their prices from their normal asking. They also drop it during Ramadan right before they go home because they absolutely must have some money, they can't afford to go home alone any night unless there is no interest. Their families are quite demanding for cash at that time of year and there are few tourists or even expats in town due to Ramadan.
They do have "loss of face" issues when they get less money than the average. But I've been around long enough that they know I will never tell any girl how much I gave a different girl. If you are negotiating with a girl and tell her "I only gave that girl half of what you are asking!" You just screwed yourself because you just raised the price for every girl you meet from then on since none of them will trust you to keep your mouth shut about money.
[QUOTE=Goatscrot;2335605]Yes, same goes for many things here in LOS.[/QUOTE]Very similar here in Mexico as well.
My suspicion is that the same "philosophy" exists in many developing countries and it is 180 degrees different from the way a "business" is run in, say, the US.
In a developing country, if you lack customers you raise prices to make more money from the same customer base. In the US, if you lack customers, you have a "sale" to get more customers so you can make more money.
[QUOTE=Smoothy;2335624]I don't agree with that. Right now, guys still have not returned after the end of Ramadan so customers are sparse in Jakarta. The free lance girls have dropped their prices from their normal asking. They also drop it during Ramadan right before they go home because they absolutely must have some money, they can't afford to go home alone any night unless there is no interest. Their families are quite demanding for cash at that time of year and there are few tourists or even expats in town due to Ramadan.
They do have "loss of face" issues when they get less money than the average. But I've been around long enough that they know I will never tell any girl how much I gave a different girl. If you are negotiating with a girl and tell her "I only gave that girl half of what you are asking!" You just screwed yourself because you just raised the price for every girl you meet from then on since none of them will trust you to keep your mouth shut about money.[/QUOTE]Thais are very different than Indonesians.
Pricing is different in different segments. Absolutely supply and demand plays a part on what you pay on the street but hardly at all in the go go scene where it more controlled by owners / operators.
If girls in a go go bar are not making enough money, will they drop their prices? IF what other posters write can be believed, they reckon can still get girls for low prices. I don't know how low is the standard of the girls or if the posters are truthful.
I think what is more prevalent is the girl will go to a different bar. I did one pretty girl in Baccara a couple of times, then she went to get a tit job. Not good. She then moved to Tilac, maybe not enough customers in Baccara.
2 other very poor performing girls Chocolate and Praow probably got no repeats in Doll House. Those two moved to Crazy house. Chocolate got a bad tit job done and had a baby.
Had a good time with Pin in Boss massage. She soon turned working the street on Soi 4. She was superior looking to most Soi 4 girls and explained she made more money there with a lot more customers.
If girls can't cut it in Thermae, they will soon move on and try elsewhere. Would they lower the price in Thermae? Maybe. Doubtful? But if they start on Soi 4 it will be a lower price.
In my line of work, I need the money, so rather than drop my prices, I am more likely to give them a lot of extra hours for free. They will get value. Win win. Some girls are smart enough to give extra special and time service for a bit more money but not all. The girls are not economics experts. Some idiots proposed that all girls should cost the same amount for fuck, regardless of looks and service and time. Obsurd! I am an expert in my technical field. Would stupid if I charged the same as every dumb non expert. However there will be charlatans that charge more of course, but what is delivered will be very average or worse.
[QUOTE=Syzygies;2335837]If girls in a go go bar are not making enough money, will they drop their prices? IF what other posters write can be believed, they reckon can still get girls for low prices. I don't know how low is the standard of the girls or if the posters are truthful.
I think what is more prevalent is the girl will go to a different bar. I did one pretty girl in Baccara a couple of times, then she went to get a tit job. Not good. She then moved to Tilac, maybe not enough customers in Baccara.
2 other very poor performing girls Chocolate and Praow probably got no repeats in Doll House. Those two moved to Crazy house. Chocolate got a bad tit job done and had a baby.
Had a good time with Pin in Boss massage. She soon turned working the street on Soi 4. She was superior looking to most Soi 4 girls and explained she made more money there with a lot more customers..[/QUOTE]I saw a girl staring at me and smiling in thermae sitting on the island in the middle, in either Dec? Jan or Feb. I was with mr tooms, he noticed her smiling at me, I wasn't really interested.
A few days later I ran into her working on soi 4, I didn't know it was her but she remembered me, she was happy to see me, gave me her line and offered 1000 b session, I said maybe tomorrow? LOL.
I was still not interested, but I'm guessing her price would have been different in thermae? She was standing by the huge glass store front tattoo shop, I forget the name of it?
Isn't this called dynamic-pricing LMAO.
[QUOTE=Syzygies;2335837]If girls in a go go bar are not making enough money, will they drop their prices? IF what other posters write can be believed, they reckon can still get girls for low prices. I don't know how low is the standard of the girls or if the posters are truthful.
...
If girls can't cut it in Thermae, they will soon move on and try elsewhere. Would they lower the price in Thermae? Maybe. Doubtful? But if they start on Soi 4 it will be a lower price.
...[/QUOTE]Of course, this is purely anecdotal, but one of my hotter than most Left Side Thermae girls in my report a few days back went from 3,000 baht to 2,500 baht without my even saying anything, just hesitating a bit. During our discussion in the booth, she said she was giving me a discount (LOL. Who knows) because she and other girls were nervous that the cops were going to shut down Thermae again for drug testing any night. Apparently, Thermae's management had not been paying enough rice money lately or not in a timely manner. The cops had done that a couple of times in the recent past and the girls, for a while at least, were worried that they would be stuck in there for hours again with no chance of a customer while everyone was being tested.
Saw that girl in Thermae again last night. Aside from her and a handful of others, have to say Thermae's line up about 10:30 PM was one of the worst in terms of looks alone I have ever seen. I used to doubt or think it was an overstatement when guys said they could not find anything worth taking from Thermae on a given night. But last night would have been one of those nights for me. That particular girl I'd taken before was sitting with a youngish Japanese guy having a drink, discussing whatever and signaled for me to come over when he left to go to the toilet for a few minutes. Just to ask when I would take her again. But I would never bother to take her again without a full upfront agreement for BBFS+CIP, even if she offered me a discount under duress down to 500 baht.
[QUOTE=Syzygies;2317144]So were you at Kazy or at Kozy? Kazy is the downstairs bar and Kozy is the upstairs bar. Different management apparently from what I was told by the staff, and possibly totally different styles. Kozy upstairs was reported to try to attract Asian customers like upstairs at Penny Black.
[/QUOTE]I'll do some searching on what Kazy and Kozy are. Guessing the replace the restaurant on the corner of Cowboy? Maybe work a visit this week.
But I've only used Penny Black as a ST hotel. What is upstairs?
[QUOTE=Pita123;2335935]I'll do some searching on what Kazy and Kozy are. Guessing the replace the restaurant on the corner of Cowboy? Maybe work a visit this week.
But I've only used Penny Black as a ST hotel. What is upstairs?[/QUOTE]Kazy Kozy has opened in place of Old Dutch. Kozy upstairs will not open until Kazy has too many customers. Seems it is really the same business.
If you are a guy that used to like Crazy House a few years back, then I think Kazy can work for you. It is already superior to CH for me, by the standard and types of the girls, more natural girls less surgeries.
I don't like the time wasted by running shows though. Kazy is not as good as CH when it first opened.
I already posted a lot more detail in previous reports. Forget about Penny Black. Some sort of karaoke maybe.
[QUOTE=EihTooms;2335932]
Saw that girl in Thermae again last night. Aside from her and a handful of others, have to say Thermae's line up about 10:30 PM was one of the worst in terms of looks alone I have ever seen. I used to doubt or think it was an overstatement when guys said they could not find anything worth taking from Thermae on a given night. But last night would have been one of those nights for me. .[/QUOTE]I left Thermae many times empty handed. I would do the circuit and mentally note maybe 2 or 3 girls, but then would fail to get any of them. They would show zero interest or be taken by a Japanese guy very quick and lively. Clearly I was not picking really average looking girls. When I did get a girl, possibly more average looking, they proved unsatisfactory one way or another: surgeries, restrictions, dick scared, or disappointing body (hidden by clothing). Poor luck, or just a guy in the wrong place? Need to improve my selection technique clearly. "Girly can you just strip off for a moment first, give me a big tongue kiss and assure me you are desperate for extended time Farang cock?"
Maybe Thermae is a place where we need to see which girls want us the most, and then decide if they are doable or not. Not really my style. Plenty of chubby or average girls giving me the look, but I did not bite.
Clearly I am too slow to choose. Other guys work fast.