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[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2470169]Well said, I have been saying the exact same thing. This is so bad and in my opinion quarantines are just not working that well, besides killing the economies and ruining people's lives.[/QUOTE]Quarantines don't work if people don't follow them and quarantine. Same as distancing, same as lock downs, etc. They work when people follow them, and they don't work when even a significant minority do not follow them. That's the main difference between countries where it has worked and continues to work, and countries where it doesn't work.
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[QUOTE=Zeos1;2470226]Quarantines don't work if people don't follow them and quarantine. Same as distancing, same as lock downs, etc. They work when people follow them, and they don't work when even a significant minority do not follow them. That's the main difference between countries where it has worked and continues to work, and countries where it doesn't work.[/QUOTE]We've experienced the same thing in recent years with vaccinations. It only took a relatively small group of anti-vaxxers to bring back outbreaks of the measles. I expect we'll start seeing polio again within a few years.
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[QUOTE=JjBee62;2471576]International travel bans now are to reduce the strain on local resources while countries attempt to get their infection rate under control.[/QUOTE]Sigh. I know what the rationale is for them. The question going forward is are they worth having now? I think given the data the answer is no, but the decision to open or not in Colombia will be based on politics. If the president opens the country and case numbers go up, and the trends in Colombia look terrible, the president will be hammered by his main opposition, the mayor of Bogota. They have already clashed on air travel before.
[QUOTE=JjBee62;2471576]A thorough lockdown on International travel, combined with aggressive testing and contact tracing, could have prevented the pandemic, if it had been done in early January.[/QUOTE]Was air travel significant in the 1918 pandemic? You make statements like this that have no basis in reality.
[QUOTE=JjBee62;2471576]Everyone wants to make it political. Viruses are apolitical. They behave exactly the same regardless of geography, politics or religion. Until we start treating it like a disease instead of a way to score points, nothing is going to change.[/QUOTE]Viruses spread the same regardless of geography? This is another statement that is so ridiculous that NO ONE in the scientific community agrees with. Geography also has to do with population density and the very animals that often harbor the viruses that spread to humans.
Getting on point though, I said that others besides you have made the comment that the reason the virus is surging in the Americas and not Europe and Asia is due to noncompliance. The idea being that countries like Peru and Colombia with severe lockdowns have had surging cases of the virus due to non-compliance.
The data does not support that though. Chile is a very law abiding country and the virus is spreading there like crazy. Argentina has the same genetic makeup as Italy and Spain and the same attitudes towards governments those nations do and a younger population to boot but the cases of virus are surging in Argentina and not in Italy and Spain.
In my opinion, something is happening in the Americas that cannot be explained totally by noncompliance: environmental factors maybe, a mutation in the virus. Yes, Canada has seen a decline in the cases of the virus as has the USA Northeast, but those are the only regions in the Americas that have really cooled off. All the other most populous countries in the Americas are still seeing a surge in cases.
As I said before, there is no point in debating you JJBee. You keep claiming the scientists and experts know what they are doing when they have been all over the map. The CDC said masks did not work and now you can get arrested for not wearing one.
I think the decisions made by Southern US governors to open up their economies based on the data from Europe and Asia were correct, but that decision turned out to be a disaster.
So the decision to open up Colombia is a political one. The patterns seen in Europe and Asia are different from those in the Americas, and the data on International travel is all over the place. And politically speaking, I think the president is more likely to keep the borders closed than open them up, but that is just my opinion based on politics and perception not hard facts.
I just do not get the concept if we just listened to the scientists everything would be okay. Some parts of the media has been kissing Dr. Fauci's ass the whole time. Those media channels have failed to point out how often he and other scientists were dead wrong so often.
Can you tell me what the scientific consensus is on opening up Colombia is then? Because I do not see a scientific consensus on international travel at all.
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Facts for a Change.
[QUOTE=JjBee62;2471576]A thorough lockdown on International travel, combined with aggressive testing and contact tracing, could have prevented the pandemic, if it had been done in early January.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2472034]Was air travel significant in the 1918 pandemic? You make statements like this that have no basis in reality.[/QUOTE]There wasn't any air travel in 1918. But there was extensive troop movements from the United States to Great Britain and France which was largely credited with the spread the disease over to most of Europe.
You could research your facts by reading the Wikipedia page on the Spanish Flu and reading about how the troop movements spread the disease.
Now I do understand that you want to try and one-up JjBee62 and challenge anything he says whether the facts support you or not. You could just grow up, ignore his posts and concentrate on the true purpose of this forum which is about Medellin Colombia and the entertainment options. We don't really need to analyze epidemiological events from 100 years ago. If you can't help yourself, let's talk about whether the strict quarantine for.
3 day weekends where (like today) there aren't any people out and very little traffic on La 70 (normally one of the busiest streets in Laureles) is doing any good or not. Will the mayor's new policies abate the recent rapid growth curve and how long will it continue. That might be somewhat interesting to someone instead of your "I have to win an argument just once against jibee62".
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[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2472034]Sigh. I know what the rationale is for them. The question going forward is are they worth having now? I think given the data the answer is no, but the decision to open or not in Colombia will be based on politics. If the president opens the country and case numbers go up, and the trends in Colombia look terrible, the president will be hammered by his main opposition, the mayor of Bogota. They have already clashed on air travel before.
Was air travel significant in the 1918 pandemic? You make statements like this that have no basis in reality.
Viruses spread the same regardless of geography? This is another statement that is so ridiculous that NO ONE in the scientific community agrees with. Geography also has to do with population density and the very animals that often harbor the viruses that spread to humans.
Getting on point though, I said that others besides you have made the comment that the reason the virus is surging in the Americas and not Europe and Asia is due to noncompliance. The idea being that countries like Peru and Colombia with severe lockdowns have had surging cases of the virus due to non-compliance.
The data does not support that though. Chile is a very law abiding country and the virus is spreading there like crazy. Argentina has the same genetic makeup as Italy and Spain and the same attitudes towards governments those nations do and a younger population to boot but the cases of virus are surging in Argentina and not in Italy and Spain.
In my opinion, something is happening in the Americas that cannot be explained totally by noncompliance: environmental factors maybe, a mutation in the virus. Yes, Canada has seen a decline in the cases of the virus as has the USA Northeast, but those are the only regions in the Americas that have really cooled off. All the other most populous countries in the Americas are still seeing a surge in cases.
As I said before, there is no point in debating you JJBee. You keep claiming the scientists and experts know what they are doing when they have been all over the map. The CDC said masks did not work and now you can get arrested for not wearing one.
I think the decisions made by Southern US governors to open up their economies based on the data from Europe and Asia were correct, but that decision turned out to be a disaster.
So the decision to open up Colombia is a political one. The patterns seen in Europe and Asia are different from those in the Americas, and the data on International travel is all over the place. And politically speaking, I think the president is more likely to keep the borders closed than open them up, but that is just my opinion based on politics and perception not hard facts.
I just do not get the concept if we just listened to the scientists everything would be okay. Some parts of the media has been kissing Dr. Fauci's ass the whole time. Those media channels have failed to point out how often he and other scientists were dead wrong so often.
Can you tell me what the scientific consensus is on opening up Colombia is then? Because I do not see a scientific consensus on international travel at all.[/QUOTE]All kinds of ways of denying the simple and obvious. And there's nothing significant that has changed since late January when the WHO was warning how serious this could be. This virus spreads when people are close enough together that the receiver gets close enough to the infected person to get infected. Number one and by far the most significant way it spreads. Second, by touching something with active virus and then touching your face (eyes, nose especially).
Everything else is just refinement of that knowledge. The big discussion over aerosol transmission versus droplet, droplet size, etc. Is minute differences in how it might spread. The vast majority spreads exactly in the way that many viruses spread. This one is reasonably contagious, but not as much so as some (fortunately).
Countries and places that have got the majority of the people to follow distancing and basic hygiene protocols have seen the virus "are" factor below 1 - in other words declining cases, and after a few months to almost 0 cases. Irrespective of how the "rules" they have sound, it is how people behave. Parts of the US have had similar rules to others, with different results. But when analysis of how many people have actually followed the guidelines or rules is done the answer is the same. It is easy to predict the infection rates by knowing how many different people are in contact with each other and in close proximity.
No need for stories about why this is being allowed, who is behind it, etc.
Travel bans have certainly helped Canada. As with almost everywhere initially all the cases were "imported". But we didn't act soon enough on that. But when we put a general requirement that everyone coming back (citizens, residents) and everyone entering (tourists, immigrants, whatever) had to quarantine the new cases peaked, and since around mid May have been going down. Due to all kinds of reasons, mostly that people stopped mixing and being in proximity (lots of different ways that was done. All well known). Cases in the country can now almost all be considered "mopping up" as there are situations where large families had cases generating more as time went on, for example, or right now a series of religious communes where there have been three or four rounds of infection. And of course testing, contact tracing, all of those things. Which work a lot better when the case load is low enough they can be done in a thorough way.
As an example, the last day of reporting (Friday I think) there were over 30,000 tests in my province. There were less than 200 new cases I believe. There are very few left in intensive care, etc. And believe me, when someone tests positive there are a swarm of health people following up on all contacts, etc. That wasn't so when things were at the peak, but again, once numbers get to a manageable level it allows a lot better followup, and allows us to get back to some version of normal. And to keep it that way people are ok with masks in indoor public spaces, distancing while shopping, etc. Etc.
Anyway. I only post this to give people a sense of hope. I think this virus can be beat. But until it is a worldwide effort we won't be able to travel normally and do a lot of things we would like to do.
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[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2472034]Getting on point though, I said that others besides you have made the comment that the reason the virus is surging in the Americas and not Europe and Asia is due to noncompliance. The idea being that countries like Peru and Colombia with severe lockdowns have had surging cases of the virus due to non-compliance.The data does not support that though. Chile is a very law abiding country and the virus is spreading there like crazy. Argentina has the same genetic makeup as Italy and Spain and the same attitudes towards governments those nations do and a younger population to boot but the cases of virus are surging in Argentina and not in Italy and Spain.[/QUOTE]Here we go again with the Houdiniesque contortions, and just plain false information. Chile is seeing a decline in cases and death numbers over the past two months.
[URL]https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/chile/[/URL]
They are also the most developed country in South America.
[URL]https://idesa.org/article_english/chile-is-the-most-developed-country-in-latin-america/[/URL]
Another affluent South American country, Uruguay, is also doing well with only 35 total deaths. But these are the exception in their region, not the rule.
Much of the non-compliance is poverty related, which involves living in crowded households, plus an absence of refrigerators and means to stock up food. Shopping is often done in crowded markets. There is plenty of poverty in Argentina, with a rate over double that of Chile.
[URL]https://www.batimes.com.ar/news/argentina/poverty-rose-to-35-4-percent-in-first-half-of-2019-reports-INDEC.phtml[/URL]
Argentina also has a substantially higher poverty rate then their neighbor Brazil. It thus should come as no surprise that their graphs follow a similar trajectory. It all can be reviewed here.
[URL]https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/[/URL]#countries.
Not to mention that we know how the disease is spread. The non-compliance in the US, lack of social distancing, masks, etc. Relate more to arrogance and fake news than poverty. The successes in Western Europe relate to implementing the simple and correct strategies. All the smoke and mirrors in the world won't make these truths go away. Though I'm confident you'll keep trying.
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Here we fucking go again
Pay attention you idiotic, cock swallowing, anal polyp.
[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2472034]Sigh. I know what the rationale is for them. The question going forward is are they worth having now? I think given the data the answer is no, but the decision to open or not in Colombia will be based on politics. If the president opens the country and case numbers go up, and the trends in Colombia look terrible, the president will be hammered by his main opposition, the mayor of Bogota. They have already clashed on air travel before. [/QUOTE]I already covered that. Once again, because you're only useful as a sperm sponge, you missed the fucking point. Each country, which last time I checked includes Colombia, is dealing with controlling the spread of the virus. That's where they are allocating resources. Opening up international travel leaves them with 2 options. They can either say "Fuck it" and let whoever come in without any preventative measures, or they can move resources to the airports, testing, isolating, quarantining and enforcing, to keep any visitors from adding to the problem. Which means they have to take away from their efforts to stop the spread they are trying to deal with.
It has the same to do with politics as your effective IQ, A Huge Fucking Zero.
[QUOTE]Was air travel significant in the 1918 pandemic? You make statements like this that have no basis in reality.[/QUOTE]Do you have to try to be so fucking clueless, or does it just come naturally? Since you seem to have missed out on learning history, I'll fill in one of the gaps. International travel has been around for a long fucking time. Viruses don't get seasick. They weren't just sitting around waiting for a plane. There's these things called "ships. " They carry passengers. Often ships, loaded with passengers, travel between countries. Often, if there are infected people on the ships diseases are carried from country to country.
Earlier today a squirrel ran across the road in front of me. I yelled "stupid squirrel" and the cheeky little bastard yelled back "at least I'm smarter than Elvis. " Had to give him that one.
[QUOTE]Viruses spread the same regardless of geography? This is another statement that is so ridiculous that NO ONE in the scientific community agrees with. Geography also has to do with population density and the very animals that often harbor the viruses that spread to humans.[/QUOTE]Again, you're true to form. You fail completely to understand the simplest direct statement. If I wrote "Red is a primary color" you'd reply that people in Laos don't eat bacon for breakfast, therefore I'm wrong.
I wrote: "Viruses are apolitical. They behave exactly the same regardless of geography, politics or religion. ".
I didn't say viruses spread the same. I said they behave the same. I understand, to you, "behave" and "spread" always mean the same because, whenever your current daddy tells you to behave you spread your ass cheeks for him, but viruses aren't like that.
Any virus looks for a host. That's it. It doesn't look for a host that drives a BMW. It doesn't look for a host that lives at the beach. It looks for a host. Period. When it finds a host it attempts to replicate its RNA code. It does this in the jungle, in the desert, in the mountains and at the beach. It does this in the cities, towns and rural areas.
How many hosts are available in an area affects the rate at which the virus spreads, but it has no effect on the behavior of the virus.
[QUOTE]Getting on point though, I said that others besides you have made the comment that the reason the virus is surging in the Americas and not Europe and Asia is due to noncompliance. The idea being that countries like Peru and Colombia with severe lockdowns have had surging cases of the virus due to non-compliance.[/QUOTE]You haven't been on point since your last new butt plug. Don't try to claim you're getting on point now, unless daddy just sent you a care package.
Cases are surging. That's all you need to know. Which is extremely fortunate because your capacity for knowledge is about the same as my capacity for the abject stupidity of every one of your posts. We know how to stop the cases from surging. We've already done it. Many places are still doing it. The US is not doing it. As for Peru, Chile and Argentina, I give zero fucks about them. I'm not in Peru, Chile or Argentina. I have no plans to go to Peru, Chile or Argentina. I have not once mentioned them except to tell you that I'm not writing about them.
There are 3 countries I'm paying attention to, the US, Canada and Colombia. The first 2 because my time is split 80-20 between the two and Colombia so I know when to start planning a trip.
But let's talk about "severe lockdowns. " There's a section of I-75 between Findlay and Beaverdam, Ohio with signs saying Speeding and distracted driving violations are strictly enforced with zero tolerance. Guess how effective that strict enforcement is. Just about as effective as the "severe lockdowns" in Colombia. Sure the Parque Lleras clubs are closed, but every single night, all the people who would normally be partying at a club are partying at someone's apartment, or out in the streets. Ask the guys in El Centro how many days Plaza Botero was completely empty.
[QUOTE]The data does not support that though. Chile is a very law abiding country and the virus is spreading there like crazy. Argentina has the same genetic makeup as Italy and Spain and the same attitudes towards governments those nations do and a younger population to boot but the cases of virus are surging in Argentina and not in Italy and Spain.[/QUOTE]DATA? You dare to use the word "Data" you fucking testicle rest of a hypocrite? You've been claiming all the data is wrong for months. You repeatedly ignore all data presented to you and now you want to tell me what the data supports? You wouldn't recognize Data if Brent Spiner was face fucking you.
Italy and Spain learned their lesson. They understand what they need to do. South America is learning the same lesson right now. They'll figure it out.
[QUOTE]In my opinion, something is happening in the Americas that cannot be explained totally by noncompliance: environmental factors maybe, a mutation in the virus. Yes, Canada has seen a decline in the cases of the virus as has the USA Northeast, but those are the only regions in the Americas that have really cooled off. All the other most populous countries in the Americas are still seeing a surge in cases. [/QUOTE]Your opinion is worth slightly less than a piece of toilet paper stuck to a fat lady's shoe.
Have you been to Canada recently? Say at any time in the past 3 months? You want to know why Canada has seen a decline? For 2 months Canadians stayed the fuck at home. At least I assume they were at home, because they sure as shit weren't in their cars driving to and from work. They weren't at the malls, movie theaters, schools or churches. They sat at home and waited it out. When they began opening back up, they paid attention to the numbers. In short they did all the things that were so heavily criticized in the US states that were effective at flattening the curve.
You see, the big problem in the Americas can he summed up with one word: "You. " It's the fucking shitskulls like you who haven't a fucking clue about anything beyond your own nose, who want to drive the ship. You pissed and moaned like a fucking infant when someone in Texas told you to wear a mask. You've jumped on every single conspiracy theory like a god-damned jackrabbit on Viagra. You change your fucking opinion more often than they change the toilet paper roll at the Diarrhea Institute. You babble incoherently about science, without knowing what the fuck science is and then you whine about the economy. If stupidity was a crime, you'd have been executed 47 times and would still be locked in a cell for the next 30 billion years.
[QUOTE]As I said before, there is no point in debating you JJBee. You keep claiming the scientists and experts know what they are doing when they have been all over the map. The CDC said masks did not work and now you can get arrested for not wearing one.[/QUOTE]There's no point in debating with me because your knowledge of debate is roughly equal to a pile of kangaroo shit's knowledge of string theory, although that's doing a disservice to the kangaroo shit.
The CDC did not say masks don't work. At the beginning, the CDC recommended people not hoard masks because the US did not have enough masks for the people who desperately needed them. Once the mask shortage was dealt with they recommended and continue to recommend the use of masks.
Part of your problem, aside from the oxygen deprivation you're experiencing from having your head so far up your ass, is that you haven't a fucking clue what science is. You look at science as if it's some stock pick from a bunch of Bulgarian goat fuckers. Science isn't a matter of right and wrong. It's a set of tools for the accumulation of knowledge. The most important tool is "I don't know. " From there you begin to add knowledge. Sometimes you go the wrong way and have to backtrack, but you've still gained knowledge from your mistakes.
Science can't give a definitive answer on how many will die. Science can only make projections based upon what actions are being taken.
Let's try an analogy. Not for you, because I'm fairly certain you think an analogy is a large, wooden toy for your ass, but for the people who are smarter than mildew.
If someone is driving from point A to Point be at 50 mph and the distance is 300 miles, science says the trip will take 6 hours (get someone to do the math for you). Science doesn't take into account how many times the driver stops to piss. It doesn't consider that the guy might drive 30 minutes and decide to go home. It only considers the available data.
When the experts made predictions, those predictions were based upon following a certain path. Any change in the path invalidates the predictions. Every single time the US has changed the path. Asia and Europe followed the path.
[QUOTE]I think the decisions made by Southern US governors to open up their economies based on the data from Europe and Asia were correct, but that decision turned out to be a disaster.[/QUOTE]It's as if your brain can't retain anything more than 2 seconds. If it turned out to be a disaster, the decision wasn't a good one. "Even though the explosion killed the guy and destroyed 3 apartments, I think his decision to take a bath in gasoline while smoking was a good one. ".
Are you competing with yourself to come up with ever more idiotic statements?
The southern states decisions had nothing to do with data from anywhere. Trump said "open back up" and they said "okay. ".
[QUOTE]So the decision to open up Colombia is a political one. The patterns seen in Europe and Asia are different from those in the Americas, and the data on International travel is all over the place. And politically speaking, I think the president is more likely to keep the borders closed than open them up, but that is just my opinion based on politics and perception not hard facts.[/QUOTE]What? How in the fuck did you go from southern states opening back up being a disaster to "So the decision to open up Colombia is a political one?" What fucking planet did you leave your brain cells on? "Yesterday I ate 2 hot dogs. So my decision to shove my head up my ass was based on ergonomics. ".
The decision to open back up Colombia is a Colombian decision. Whether they decide to make it a political decision or decide to base it upon controlling the spread of disease is up to them. They aren't consulting with fucking morons over how to make the decision. If they decide to, I'm sure someone will come looking for you.
[QUOTE]I just do not get the concept if we just listened to the scientists everything would be okay. Some parts of the media has been kissing Dr. Fauci's ass the whole time. Those media channels have failed to point out how often he and other scientists were dead wrong so often.[/QUOTE]The tip of My. Everest rises 29,029 feet above sea level. Challenger Deep in the Marianas Trench is 36,200 feet below sea level. Combine the two and it's still nowhere near the depths of your ignorance.
Not one time have the scientists been wrong. But it does no good when festering ass boils like yourself refuse to listen. If I tell you, "take a right turn at the next light and you'll avoid all the traffic", but you take a left turn, it's not my fault you're stuck in a jam for the next hour.
At the beginning, the scientists said "we need to start testing, we need to isolate, we need contact tracing. " Instead, we did nothing. They said we need to start shutting down now. Instead we waited almost a month. They said "more testing. " Instead we said "more testing makes us look bad. " They said "keep it shutdown until we have it under control. " Instead we said "we have to protect the economy. ".
Every step of the way the US has ignored what the experts have recommended and bilious enema extracts like you have been screaming for the US to ignore the experts. Then, you festering twat blisters have the gall to claim the experts don't know what they are talking about.
[QUOTE]Can you tell me what the scientific consensus is on opening up Colombia is then? Because I do not see a scientific consensus on international travel at all.[/QUOTE]What good would that do? If I told you cheese is a dairy product you'd reply that the moon landing was a hoax propagated to install tracking devices in disposable diapers in order to bring about a new world order based upon a birthday card Karl Marx gave to his mother.
There is no scientific consensus on opening Colombia back up. You expect them to come out and say "Wednesday, November 18,2020 at 3:47 pm should be good?
The scientific consensus is that Colombia first needs to get the number of new cases to start falling. The scientific consensus is they do that by strict social distancing, the use of masks, avoiding unnecessary travel. Once the number of new cases drops below the level where Colombia can begin contact tracing, the scientific consensus is that Colombia can slowly begin opening things back up. The scientific consensus is increased testing will be necessary. Assuming the numbers continue to fall, Colombia can continue to restore things, until they are confident in their ability to detect and control any outbreaks. At some point, whenever Colombia decides they have the situation controlled and they are ready to allow international travel, Colombia will allow international travel. They will decide what restrictions there will be.
However, it's up to Colombia to decide whether they'll follow the scientific consensus, or if they'll listen to Chlamydia infested cunts like you.
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[QUOTE=Villainy;2472073]Now I do understand that you want to try and one-up JjBee62 and challenge anything he says whether the facts support you or not. You could just grow up, ignore his posts and concentrate on the true purpose of this forum which is about Medellin Colombia and the entertainment options.[/QUOTE]In all fairness you can't lay it all on Elvis. If you are going to tell him to "grow up" then you need to say the same to JJBee62 and several others. That assumes that the discussion needs to end, but I'm not convinced that it does. On the ground info on Medellin is scant at the moment. Plus there's the "Stupid Shit" thread for any overflow that the Admin can use at his discretion.
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[QUOTE=JjBee62;2472116]Pay attention you idiotic, cock swallowing, anal polyp.
Do you have to try to be so fucking clueless, or does it just come naturally? Since you seem to have missed out on learning history, I'll fill in one of the gaps. International travel has been around for a long fucking time. Viruses don't get seasick. They weren't just sitting around waiting for a plane. There's these things called "ships. " They carry passengers. Often ships, loaded with passengers, travel between countries. Often, if there are infected people on the ships diseases are carried from country to country.[/QUOTE]I did pay attention, ass wipe! You, being the Democrat dipshit that you are, said that if air travel were banned the virus would not have spread, a swipe at Trump. Now viruses can travel by ships. SO.
Earlier today a squirrel ran across the road in front of me. I yelled "stupid squirrel" and the cheeky little bastard yelled back "at least I'm smarter than Elvis." Had to give him that one.
Again, you're true to form. You fail completely to understand the simplest direct statement. If I wrote "Red is a primary color" you'd reply that people in Laos don't eat bacon for breakfast, therefore I'm wrong.
I wrote: "Viruses are apolitical. They behave exactly the same regardless of geography, politics or religion."
I didn't say viruses spread the same. I said they behave the same. I understand, to you, "behave" and "spread" always mean the same because, whenever your current daddy tells you to behave you spread your ass cheeks for him, but viruses aren't like that.
Any virus looks for a host. That's it. It doesn't look for a host that drives a BMW. It doesn't look for a host that lives at the beach. It looks for a host. Period. When it finds a host it attempts to replicate its RNA code. It does this in the jungle, in the desert, in the mountains and at the beach. It does this in the cities, towns and rural areas.
How many hosts are available in an area affects the rate at which the virus spreads, but it has no effect on the behavior of the virus.
You haven't been on point since your last new butt plug. Don't try to claim you're getting on point now, unless daddy just sent you a care package.
Cases are surging. That's all you need to know. Which is extremely fortunate because your capacity for knowledge is about the same as my capacity for the abject stupidity of every one of your posts. We know how to stop the cases from surging. We've already done it. Many places are still doing it. The US is not doing it. As for Peru, Chile and Argentina, I give zero fucks about them. I'm not in Peru, Chile or Argentina. I have no plans to go to Peru, Chile or Argentina. I have not once mentioned them except to tell you that I'm not writing about them.
There are 3 countries I'm paying attention to, the US, Canada and Colombia. The first 2 because my time is split 80-20 between the two and Colombia so I know when to start planning a trip.
But let's talk about "severe lockdowns. " There's a section of I-75 between Findlay and Beaverdam, Ohio with signs saying Speeding and distracted driving violations are strictly enforced with zero tolerance. Guess how effective that strict enforcement is. Just about as effective as the "severe lockdowns" in Colombia. Sure the Parque Lleras clubs are closed, but every single night, all the people who would normally be partying at a club are partying at someone's apartment, or out in the streets. Ask the guys in El Centro how many days Plaza Botero was completely empty.
DATA? You dare to use the word "Data" you fucking testicle rest of a hypocrite? You've been claiming all the data is wrong for months. You repeatedly ignore all data presented to you and now you want to tell me what the data supports? You wouldn't recognize Data if Brent Spiner was face fucking you.
Italy and Spain learned their lesson. They understand what they need to do. South America is learning the same lesson right now. They'll figure it out.
Your opinion is worth slightly less than a piece of toilet paper stuck to a fat lady's shoe.
Have you been to Canada recently? Say at any time in the past 3 months? You want to know why Canada has seen a decline? For 2 months Canadians stayed the fuck at home. At least I assume they were at home, because they sure as shit weren't in their cars driving to and from work. They weren't at the malls, movie theaters, schools or churches. They sat at home and waited it out. When they began opening back up, they paid attention to the numbers. In short they did all the things that were so heavily criticized in the US states that were effective at flattening the curve.
You see, the big problem in the Americas can he summed up with one word: "You." It's the fucking shitskulls like you who haven't a fucking clue about anything beyond your own nose, who want to drive the ship. You pissed and moaned like a fucking infant when someone in Texas told you to wear a mask. You've jumped on every single conspiracy theory like a god-damned jackrabbit on Viagra. You change your fucking opinion more often than they change the toilet paper roll at the Diarrhea Institute. You babble incoherently about science, without knowing what the fuck science is and then you whine about the economy. If stupidity was a crime, you'd have been executed 47 times and would still be locked in a cell for the next 30 billion years.
There's no point in debating with me because your knowledge of debate is roughly equal to a pile of kangaroo shit's knowledge of string theory, although that's doing a disservice to the kangaroo shit.
The CDC did not say masks don't work. At the beginning, the CDC recommended people not hoard masks because the US did not have enough masks for the people who desperately needed them. Once the mask shortage was dealt with they recommended and continue to recommend the use of masks.
Part of your problem, aside from the oxygen deprivation you're experiencing from having your head so far up your ass, is that you haven't a fucking clue what science is. You look at science as if it's some stock pick from a bunch of Bulgarian goat fuckers. Science isn't a matter of right and wrong. It's a set of tools for the accumulation of knowledge. The most important tool is "I don't know. " From there you begin to add knowledge. Sometimes you go the wrong way and have to backtrack, but you've still gained knowledge from your mistakes.
Science can't give a definitive answer on how many will die. Science can only make projections based upon what actions are being taken.
Let's try an analogy. Not for you, because I'm fairly certain you think an analogy is a large, wooden toy for your ass, but for the people who are smarter than mildew.
If someone is driving from point A to Point be at 50 mph and the distance is 300 miles, science says the trip will take 6 hours (get someone to do the math for you). Science doesn't take into account how many times the driver stops to piss. It doesn't consider that the guy might drive 30 minutes and decide to go home. It only considers the available data.
When the experts made predictions, those predictions were based upon following a certain path. Any change in the path invalidates the predictions. Every single time the US has changed the path. Asia and Europe followed the path.
It's as if your brain can't retain anything more than 2 seconds. If it turned out to be a disaster, the decision wasn't a good one. "Even though the explosion killed the guy and destroyed 3 apartments, I think his decision to take a bath in gasoline while smoking was a good one. ".
Are you competing with yourself to come up with ever more idiotic statements?
The southern states decisions had nothing to do with data from anywhere. Trump said "open back up" and they said "okay. ".
What? How in the fuck did you go from southern states opening back up being a disaster to "So the decision to open up Colombia is a political one?" What fucking planet did you leave your brain cells on? "Yesterday I ate 2 hot dogs. So my decision to shove my head up my ass was based on ergonomics. ".
The decision to open back up Colombia is a Colombian decision. Whether they decide to make it a political decision or decide to base it upon controlling the spread of disease is up to them. They aren't consulting with fucking morons over how to make the decision. If they decide to, I'm sure someone will come looking for you.
The tip of My. Everest rises 29,029 feet above sea level. Challenger Deep in the Marianas Trench is 36,200 feet below sea level. Combine the two and it's still nowhere near the depths of your ignorance.
Not one time have the scientists been wrong. But it does no good when festering ass boils like yourself refuse to listen. If I tell you, "take a right turn at the next light and you'll avoid all the traffic", but you take a left turn, it's not my fault you're stuck in a jam for the next hour.
At the beginning, the scientists said "we need to start testing, we need to isolate, we need contact tracing. " Instead, we did nothing. They said we need to start shutting down now. Instead we waited almost a month. They said "more testing. " Instead we said "more testing makes us look bad. " They said "keep it shutdown until we have it under control. " Instead we said "we have to protect the economy. ".
Every step of the way the US has ignored what the experts have recommended and bilious enema extracts like you have been screaming for the US to ignore the experts. Then, you festering twat blisters have the gall to claim the experts don't know what they are talking about.
What good would that do? If I told you cheese is a dairy product you'd reply that the moon landing was a hoax propagated to install tracking devices in disposable diapers in order to bring about a new world order based upon a birthday card Karl Marx gave to his mother.
There is no scientific consensus on opening Colombia back up. You expect them to come out and say "Wednesday, November 18,2020 at 3:47 pm should be good?
The scientific consensus is that Colombia first needs to get the number of new cases to start falling. The scientific consensus is they do that by strict social distancing, the use of masks, avoiding unnecessary travel. Once the number of new cases drops below the level where Colombia can begin contact tracing, the scientific consensus is that Colombia can slowly begin opening things back up. The scientific consensus is increased testing will be necessary. Assuming the numbers continue to fall, Colombia can continue to restore things, until they are confident in their ability to detect and control any outbreaks. At some point, whenever Colombia decides they have the situation controlled and they are ready to allow international travel, Colombia will allow international travel. They will decide what restrictions there will be.
However, it's up to Colombia to decide whether they'll follow the scientific consensus, or if they'll listen to Chlamydia infested cunts like you.
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[QUOTE=Paulie97;2472111]Here we go again with the Houdiniesque contortions, and just plain false information. Chile is seeing a decline in cases and death numbers over the past two months
Yes, after having the highest number per capita in the whole America's hemisphere.
[URL]https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/chile/[/URL]
They are also the most developed country in South America.[/QUOTE]Absolutely right. Paulie, the numbers have been going down, but they are also the highest per capita in the entire American hemisphere. That data does not support the notion that viral spread is due to noncompliance.
[QUOTE=Paulie97;2472111]Much of the non-compliance is poverty related, which involves living in crowded households, plus an absence of refrigerators and means to stock up food. Shopping is often done in crowded markets. There is plenty of poverty in Argentina, with a rate over double that of Chile.[/QUOTE]If the poverty is worse in Argentina, why is the per capita rate of infection 4 X higher than in Chile? Again, you have listed nothing showing compliance or poverty have anything to do with the spread of the virus. I agree that crowded living conditions facilitate the spread of the virus, but the data you provided is not supporting that opinion.
[QUOTE=Paulie97;2472111]Argentina also has a substantially higher poverty rate then their neighbor Brazil. It thus should come as no surprise that their graphs follow a similar trajectory. It all can be reviewed here.[/QUOTE]But your assertion falls apart again when you look at the total number of cases. Why does Brazil have three times as many cases per capita as Argentina?
[QUOTE=Paulie97;2472111]Not to mention that we know how the disease is spread. The non-compliance in the US, lack of social distancing, masks, etc. Relate more to arrogance and fake news than poverty.[/QUOTE]What does fake news have to do with viral spread?
So the reason the infection rates are dropping in New York and not in Arizona is due to compliance?
The general patterns in the Americas are not following those of Asia and Europe. Hell, policies varied in the USA from state to state as did the infection rates.
Colombia and Peru implemented stricter rules than anywhere in Europe and their rates have not gone down, and the reason for this is non-compliance? Based on what data? They also didn't allow international air travel. Show me the data that proves noncompliance in Peru and Colombia overwhelmed the international air travel ban they enacted and Europe did not.
[QUOTE=Paulie97;2472111]The successes in Western Europe relate to implementing the simple and correct strategies. All the smoke and mirrors in the world won't make these truths go away.[/QUOTE]That assertion is pure smoke and mirrors. Which strategy do you mean? Spain's? Sweden's? Poland's? If all of Europe implemented the correct strategies and all of Latin America did not, then why is Spain's rate per capita twice as high as Mexico and 8 X higher than Poland?
None of this fits. All you are doing is more Trump bashing. If only Trump would have done what the geniuses in Europe did, all in the Americas would be well. That is ridiculous. Something else is going on in the Americas.
You Demorats have been spouting Trump as being the cause of everything bad with the virus since February: [URL]https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/26/opinion/coronavirus-trump.html[/URL].
And nothing has changed.
You guys keep pushing the notion that scientists know all there is to know about the virus, and Trump stupidly has ignored them when scientists and the data have been all over the place. You guys cannot even have an intelligent conversation without bashing Trump and bashing me, and all I really want to talk about is when is Colombia going to open up.
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[QUOTE=Paulie97;2472120]In all fairness you can't lay it all on Elvis. If you are going to tell him to "grow up" then you need to say the same to JJBee62 and several others. That assumes that the discussion needs to end, but I'm not convinced that it does. On the ground info on Medellin is scant at the moment. Plus there's the "Stupid Shit" thread for any overflow that the Admin can use at his discretion.[/QUOTE]In my defense, as soon as it becomes apparent it's going to become another argument from idiocy from Elvirus, I don't wait for admin to move my response to this thread. I post directly here.
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I don't know a gd thing about virus. All I know is that when the mf surfaced, the government of Thailand said you are going to do this, this, and that or you are going to jail and will be fined. MFs complied. Now there is no more virus here. One board member had to pay the police $30 on the spot because he was outside walking around and didn't have his mask on.
I don't blame them fir not wanting to let in nasty ass foreigners that think they know everything and want to break all the rules. And this ia coming from a rule breaking mf.
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[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2472125]I did pay attention, ass wipe! You, being the Democrat dipshit that you are, said that if air travel were banned the virus would not have spread, a swipe at Trump. Now viruses can travel by ships. SO.[/QUOTE]Talk about a massive fail! I appreciate your inability to properly quote. Or are you trying to pretend you wrote my post?
I did not say "if air travel were banned the virus would not have spread." Here's what I did say:
"A thorough lockdown on International travel, combined with aggressive testing and contact tracing, could have prevented the pandemic, if it had been done in early January."
It's not a swipe at Trump, it's a simple, factual statement. Last time I checked, Trump doesn't rule the entire planet. Barring a credible threat of total nuclear annihilation, there's nothing Trump could do to shut down all international travel for every country. The key word I used was "pandemic. " If it's just limited to a few countries, it's an epidemic. An epidemic is easier to deal with, because unaffected countries have a vested interest in preventing it from becoming a pandemic.
Worldwide, every country failed initially, which is to be expected. Civilian populations aren't prepared or trained to respond to casualty situations. Governments are incapable of the immediate action required. A pandemic, at some point, was inevitable. It happened in 2020. It's easy to point out where mistakes have been made. It's easy unless you're unable to accept the possibility that Trump is capable of making a mistake. Then it becomes.
Well, it becomes every one of your posts. It becomes a Rube Goldberg post trying to blame everyone else.
I have no interest in blaming Trump for the US disaster. I don't need to try and make him look bad. Pointing fingers doesn't fix anything. Learning from previous mistakes is how you fix things. Learning from the success of others is how you fix things.
However, rule number 1 of leadership is quite simple: "You can delegate authority, but you can't delegate responsibility."
Anyone who served in the military should recall those words. Every previous President has understood them. As president, the responsibility lands on Trump's desk, whether he accepts it or not. That's reality. Cry or cheer, but it still doesn't fix things.
Nothing about the disease is unique to the US. Not even the US response is unique. We are getting the predicted results every time. If we want better results, we need a better response.
We've had good results in some places, particularly in the northeast. If NYC can get things under control, every city can do it.
I've said it before and I'll keep saying it: "We know what works."
Until we decide to do what is necessary, nothing gets better.
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[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2472315]I don't know a gd thing about virus. All I know is that when the mf surfaced, the government of Thailand said you are going to do this, this, and that or you are going to jail and will be fined. MFs complied. Now there is no more virus here. One board member had to pay the police $30 on the spot because he was outside walking around and didn't have his mask on.
I don't blame them fir not wanting to let in nasty ass foreigners that think they know everything and want to break all the rules. And this ia coming from a rule breaking mf.[/QUOTE]Exactly. New Zealand did the same. It's the same as all those firefighting drills we did in the Navy. You see smoke, you start dumping AFFF on it and you keep that foam flowing until the fire is out.
You don't stop 3 minutes in while everyone argues over whether it's better to let the fire burn.
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The Non-Sequitur Kid
[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2472203]Absolutely right. Paulie, the numbers have been going down,[/QUOTE]Then the virus isn't "spreading like crazy" in Chile as you claimed. The data proved you wrong. They are seeing a big decline in new cases and deaths over the last two months. Looks like they are doing something right. Uruguay is also looking good.
[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2472203]but they are also the highest per capita in the entire American hemisphere. [/QUOTE][QUOTE=Elvis2008;2472203]That data does not support the notion that viral spread is due to noncompliance.[/QUOTE]That "data" is neither here nor there when you try to diminish the value of masks and social distancing in containing the spread of the virus. Per capita death rates count from the beginning. A number of countries got off to a rough start then started getting it right. Some still aren't getting it right. Non-sequitur #1.
[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2472203]If the poverty is worse in Argentina, why is the per capita rate of infection 4 X higher than in Chile? [/QUOTE]What's with this word salad? How can Argentina have a per capita infection rate four times that of Chile if Chile has the highest infection rate in the Americas? But this stat likewise is neither here nor there for reasons just stated. It's a non-sequitur. Non-sequitur #2.
[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2472203]Again, you have listed nothing showing compliance or poverty have anything to do with the spread of the virus.[/QUOTE]It's common knowledge. There have been plenty of articles on the logistics in South America and how such has contributed to the spread. The non-compliance in Bogota is well documented. We also know the science of how the virus is spread as it relates to person to person contact and transfers that start with touching surfaces.
[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2472203]But your assertion falls apart again when you look at the total number of cases. Why does Brazil have three times as many cases per capita as Argentina? [/QUOTE]Brazil's Wing Nut, Trump buttboy president who caught the virus himself surely has a lot to do with this, with his laissex faire approach from the start and lifting lockdowns in early June while deaths were peaking. He has fought his health ministers tooth and nail the whole way. Irregardless both countries are seeing a significant upward trajectory in confirmed cases and deaths. None of this even begins to obscure non-compliance as a significant factor in the rise in cases and deaths in many areas of the Americas. Non-sequitur #3. Your ever shifting arguments fell apart months ago, and all we've seen since is a scramble to try and save face.
[URL]https://www.businessinsider.com/brazil-eases-lockdown-coronavirus-deaths-peak-bolsonaro-ignores-2020-6[/URL]
[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2472203]What does fake news have to do with viral spread?[/QUOTE]Fake news tells lies that encourage arrogance and discourage compliance. You knew that already. Examples are legion, but here is one of the more bizarre ones. She actually reminds me of you, loads of pontificating, but no source citations and errors galore.
[URL]https://fox5sandiego.com/news/coronavir[/URL] . H-spirits /.
[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2472203]The general patterns in the Americas are not following those of Asia and Europe. Hell, policies varied in the USA from state to state as did the infection rates.[/QUOTE]And many states that opened up too quickly saw spikes in infections. All of this has been covered in the past here with lists and data sources. Even Fox News is reporting it.
[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2472203]Colombia and Peru implemented stricter rules than anywhere in Europe and their rates have not gone down and the reason for this is non-compliance? Based on what data? [/QUOTE]Here's an excerpt from a Yale. Edu article regarding the failures of the Covid response in Peru. Follow the link at the bottom to read the entirety.
"Nonetheless, three months later, media outlets report the failure of these measures, stressing the existence of a paradox between the intensity of the containment measures and the virus' rapid spread among the population. Public health experts and economists highlighted four conditions that explain this paradox: the number of tests, the irregularity of the quarantine, the presence of crowds in markets and banks, and the level of overcrowded housing.
Due to the wide range in test availability, the comparative picture is imperfect. Peru ranks second in terms of tests for the region, yet public health experts agree that evolution of the country's infection rates is still incongruent with what would have been expected, considering Peru's stringent response.
Experts then turn to three other conditions: the high volume of informal labor, more than 70 percent in Peru; high social and economic inequalities; rooted cultural differences and behavioral patterns that include consistent disrespect for laws."
[URL]https://yaleglobal.yale.edu/content/despite-effort-perus-covid-19-response-fails[/URL]
So do we listen to Yale with their responsible, well sourced article? Or rather a conspiracy theory loving hack flopping around for months in a monger forum?
[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2472203]They also didn't allow international air travel. Show me the data that proves noncompliance in Peru and Colombia overwhelmed the international air travel ban they enacted and Europe did not.[/QUOTE]Huh? Europe has had plenty of limitations on air travel. This applies to within the EU and to countries on the outside as well. Put that back in your ass. It doesn't work.
[URL]https://www.forbes.com/sites/geoffwhitmore/2020/06/18/the-europe-travel-ban-whats-open-and-who-can-travel/[/URL]#1 cc37 a734 c3 b.
[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2472203]That assertion is pure smoke and mirrors. Which strategy do you mean? Spain's? Sweden's? Poland's? If all of Europe implemented the correct strategies and all of Latin America did not, then why is Spain's rate per capita twice as high as Mexico and 8 X higher than Poland?[/QUOTE]Per capita deaths rates going back to the beginning of the pandemic are irrelevant when considering the value of masks, social distancing, and testing. Spain is doing very well as of late, as is the rest of Western Europe as a whole. Check the graphs. And that's why most of the world welcomes travelers from the EU and the US is shut out. They have implemented the correct strategies and we in many instances have not. Non-sequitur #4.
[URL]https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/[/URL]#countries.
[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2472203]None of this fits. All you are doing is more Trump bashing.[/QUOTE]Remove your parade of non-sequiturs and it all fits like a glove. And it's all in accord with the analysis of virtually every contagious disease specialist in the world. Social distancing, masks, and testing with follow ups work. This is all also quite consistent with how we know the disease spreads. And none of this has anything to do with our toddler and chief. For the record I'm a moderate that votes Republican about half the time. This isn't about liberals versus conservatives, but conspiracy theory, anti-science, myth embracing malcontents versus reasonable people. The majority of conservatives are not in your boat.
[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2472203]You Demorats.[/QUOTE]See above.
That said we are going in circles. You spin out a series of fallacies trying to muddy the waters in matters of the obvious, then I unravel it. You are welcome to the last word, at least for the time being. I'm piled up with work for this week but may jump back in at a point. JJBee62 though is a trucker that gets bored out on the road, so he will likely dance with you some more. Yes we do all have one thing in common, we all want to get back into Colombia.
P.S. For those unfamiliar with the term non-sequitur there is plenty on it in Google. In a word, this occurs when the conclusions someone comes to do not flow from the assertions and / or evidence they presented. Another term for it is "invalid inference. " Example: "Mary bakes the best cakes in town. She should run for mayor. " It's a favorite of Elvis, that and just spinning out pure BS in the hopes that no one notices.
