-
[QUOTE=Ortos]I agree with just about everything you say. You clearly have a precise analytical mind. The same weapon we all look forward to you deploying on your forthcoming foray into different shades of FKK waters. I wish you best of luck on your forthcoming safari with the illustrious Iseeu, a proven hunter-gatherer of the fkk experience. I look forward to your analysis of Oase and the Hof, after having Artemis as your fkk baseline.
As far as the RLD vs FKK debate: It shall always be a topic of active comparison and re-evaluation. But at the end of the day, it comes down to personal taste, the same type of personal taste factor that would allow one guy to rate a girl great, but another guy to find her a shark, or one club to be better than another, and so on. You just have to go and see and make your own individual decision.
Ortos[/QUOTE]
Hey Gents,
Never thought I'd see the day when there would be any serious question as to which genre of p4p delivered higher quality service: FKK or RLD.
From my own perspective this is like comparing beluga caviar and beef jerky. But hey, that's just my experience.
I can't say that I've been to every RLD in Germany/Europe, but I've been to quite a few, including the F'furt Bahnhoviertel and unless things have changed in the past few years, then I can't imagine anything there holding sway with a good, club standard FKK session or club experience.
My last RLD visit was in A'dam earlier this year and while I'll admit that the place is a only a shadow of what it once was, even the glory days of good A'dam RLD sessions didn't and do not hold a candle to a good FKK time.
It IS interesting that this debate occurs on the Palace thread. I've long since taken Palace off my "ports of call" list, so I've no firsthand knowledge of what's currently going on there. Ironically, I have in the past compared a standard Palace session to an RLD session.
Cheers,
Dedalus
-
Hello to all,
Last time I went to Palace was one year ago. But was my first fkk visit, where I lost my fkk virginity and still I remember in a good mood the place.
Unfortunately I read here that the place is becoming worst day by day, because the girls' attitude. Someone written that the girls try to cheat you upselling with various techniques.
Guys, I have to tell you the truth!
When you go to have sex paying cash, the risk that the girl wanna earn the reward doing the minimum effort it's always on duty. You have to choose wisely and be lucky.
I report an episode that I got this summer in another club.
I go with a girl for a standard service, never speak before concerning extra or extra time, just a normal session. I haven't a watch with me. So when we finish I go to the locker to pay her and she says."we stay more than half an hour, was 35 minutes almost 40. So it's 75 euros". I said "no way, we haven't agreed one hour service, and by the way, if was 40 minutes why you haven't told me in the room, because I leaved 20 minuted more? ". More than 30 minutes it's included in one hour tariff, so why don't use at all.
She told me that if I didn't pay 75 she will go to speak with the manager, I didn't speak german but english, so I just decided to pay 75 euros, and just put a cross on her. We discussed for 15minutes but she was "no way you pay".
Ok?
So guys, I was disappointed because in my way you are correct if you say to the guy "the hal an hour is passed, what you wanna do? Do we extend for a full hour? ". For me like this it's ok and you will guarantee more good publicity through the customers, but some girls think in other way.
In the fkks' ambient every girl has her personal mongering-job experience, someones just rip off the money, someones try to do the job at her best, because they can earn money faster doin a great job, but someones think to do the minimum effort to get 100 euros. They have to be discouraged to use these techniques. And leave wating for hours to the bar. Annoiyng for days and earn no money at all. They just counting on their beautyness to rip off the customers.
Guys, chat before with your lady and be clear in the room. You earn your money, some girls just try to cheat.
Later,
Hugs from Italy!
-
[QUOTE=Hessen Bub]. Right now there's no Asian post-op LB at Palace. And there's quite a lot of signs, like height, size of feet and hands, adams apple, behaviour, voice, face, plastic tits.
HB[/QUOTE]Right now, the Asian post-op LB is not working, but very clever to slot in the word "Asian". There is one non-asian tranny who has been at the Palace for years, and many people don't know. Not sure of the name or nationality but heard her speaking Spanish. Has spiral curled hair and has a very buxom muscly powerful build with large silicone enhancements. Her voice is very feminine but her face looks slightly unusual. With that build, is not my type. I go for slim chicks. She gets plenty of customers though.
I noticed quite a few girls now not covering the breasts, waist or pussy at all. Perhaps 12 girls in this category. This has improved from some time back. One girl with very large natural tits, probably E to F cups (but no its not the famous Linda). Very tempted but not quite slim enough for me.
I went with [b]Nah[/b](spelling? ), a newish Thai girl with enhanced but not bad breasts. She was complaining about being horny and not getting it off yet so we had a very enthusiastic session. Her BBBJ was quite good but ever so slightly too firm for me so I concentrated on other things.
60 mins and we got 2 pops each. Later, another guy took her for several hours. Very GFE
[b]Bee[/b] again! Another super session. This time 90 mins. She is booked almost continuously and has many regulars. Very GFE
[b]Yanita[/b] Bulgaria. Early on was hunting with Valentina as a pair. Later I took the blonde bombshell with the slimmish very curvy body and enhancements. She had no Gel but seemed be reasonably lubricated. Good BBBJ but had to tell her to go slower. Nice Optifik and very co-operative. Good English. PSE more so than GFE.
[b]Flora[/b] Bulgaria. A tall girl, very sweet. Breasts were not big but wide and natural. A little bit spare on the belly. DATY was difficult due to very small clit (I could still find it. Just) and slightly arched back. BBBJ was very nice and sex was enhanced by very tight pussy. Had to take it slow to avoid inflicting pain.orgasmed quicker than usual due to the tightness.
Moderate English and Deutsch but excellent Spanish. Nice kisser and couldn't detect that she smokes a bit. Moderately GFE.
[size=-2][b][u]EDITOR'S NOTE[/u]:[/b] [blue]I would suggest that the author or another Forum Member consider posting a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please [url=http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php]Click Here[/url] for more information.[/blue][/size]
-
75
[QUOTE=Italia77]
She told me that if I didn't pay 75 she will go to speak with the manager, I didn't speak german but english, so I just decided to pay 75 euros, and just put a cross on her. We discussed for 15minutes but she was "no way you pay".
[/QUOTE]
Ciao, Italia77
The similar(same?) story happened to me about 1 year ago. The girl is named Aisha with huge tits who claimed to be from Lebanon but other girls informed me that she is from Romania (the nationality does not matter and I am normally a big fun of Romanian girls. I added it to show that the girl is a liar).
The major problem in Place is that these days the club management tends to allow this unfair 75 euros demand and some girls dare to do it openly.
Maybe in this case I should leave Palace, paying only 50 euros.
WBS
-
[QUOTE=West By Sun]Ciao, Italia77
The similar(same?) story happened to me about 1 year ago. The girl is named Aisha with huge tits who claimed to be from Lebanon but other girls informed me that she is from Romania (the nationality does not matter and I am normally a big fun of Romanian girls. I added it to show that the girl is a liar).
The major problem in Place is that these days the club management tends to allow this unfair 75 euros demand and some girls dare to do it openly.
Maybe in this case I should leave Palace, paying only 50 euros.
WBS[/QUOTE]
This would seem to support the old FKK axiom: If a girl lies about her real origin, then she will often (not always) be disengenious when it comes to service/performance in the room.
This kind of discussion with regard to Palace has filled many, many pages in the back posts of this thread. However, it is worth repeating that this is NOT happening with EVERY GIRL at Palace. Yes, one gets more reports about it at Palace than, say, Oase, but you can find similar reports at almost every other big club: at Palace, Oase, World, GT, etc...
One of the reasons that Palace has many reports is that, by virtue of its location more or less within Frankfurt city limits, many FKK newbies will make Palace their first club. There maybe a sub-culture at many clubs, esp. Palace, amongst certain girls (not exclusively Romanians, but...) to look for tell-tale signs of newbies and exploit this. Yes, the Palace club management is not the most customer-friendly; they often take the attitude that what happens is mainly between the customer and the girl, except if certain lines are crossed.
Some tips to help you possibly avoid being targeted by sharks at Palace or any other club:
--Try to learn some German, if you can. It helps! I'm not saying these rip-offs never happen to German guests, but for sure they do happen less often.
--Even if you speak English or whatever, employ a bit of deception yourself, by telling the girl you actually live and work in Germany not too far away and will be making regular visits to the club.
--Take your time to select your session mates, be observant and know the rules of the game. Be the player yourself, don't let the girl play you!
--Wear a frickin watch! (I just by a cheap 10Euro watch across from the train station) and make sure the girl sees you look at the time once you enter the room.
--Last and most important: Communicate with the girl before and throughout the sesssion about what you want, what your expectations are and what you do not want or are not willing to pay for. Tell her at the start you just want a 30mins session; or you want to start out with that and will possibly extend later on depending on...whatever factors...All too often disagreements can be traced to lack of communication.
Just a few basic comments here...But let's not make this a Palace-only discussion. And remember, there are plenty of girls at Palace (like all clubs) who will give you the best GFE (or whatever you seek). You just have to thresh them out from the rest. That is your job, your skill to hone...
Thanks,
Ortos
-
[QUOTE=Ortos]
--Try to learn some German, if you can. It helps! I'm not saying these rip-offs never happen to German guests, but for sure they do happen less often.
--Even if you speak English or whatever, employ a bit of deception yourself, by telling the girl you actually live and work in Germany not too far away and will be making regular visits to the club.
--Take your time to select your session mates, be observant and know the rules of the game. Be the player yourself, don't let the girl play you!
--Wear a frickin watch! (I just by a cheap 10Euro watch across from the train station) and make sure the girl sees you look at the time once you enter the room.
--Last and most important: Communicate with the girl before and throughout the sesssion about what you want, what your expectations are and what you do not want or are not willing to pay for. Tell her at the start you just want a 30mins session; or you want to start out with that and will possibly extend later on depending on...whatever factors...All too often disagreements can be traced to lack of communication.
Just a few basic comments here...But let's not make this a Palace-only discussion. And remember, there are plenty of girls at Palace (like all clubs) who will give you the best GFE (or whatever you seek). You just have to thresh them out from the rest. That is your job, your skill to hone...
Thanks,
Ortos[/QUOTE]
Excellent post Ortos. IMHO this should be required reading for any one considering their first FKK visit. And, in fact, many of us more experienced FKK visitors would do well to review it from time to time.
I especially liked the final comment on communication. In my experience, when I have a bad session it is almost always traceable back to this factor. Being clear about what one wants (in life too-not just FKK visits) always ups the probability of getting it.
As I will detail in part two of my Oase report, my time alone at Oase was just as much fun as my time with Iseeu-who was spoon feeding me all sorts of insider info. But when I reflect upon the later part of the evening I can see that I was quite clear about what I wanted and communicated this to the girls. The results were fantastic.
I could go on here but I will not, and get busy with part two-hopefully to be posted later today or this evening.
Cheers
AM
-
[QUOTE=West By Sun]The major problem in Place is that these days the club management tends to allow this unfair 75 euros demand and some girls dare to do it openly.
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Italia77]I report an episode that I got this summer in another club.
I go with a girl for a standard service, never speak before concerning extra or extra time, just a normal session. I haven't a watch with me. So when we finish I go to the locker to pay her and she says."we stay more than half an hour, was 35 minutes almost 40. So it's 75 euros". I said "no way, we haven't agreed one hour service, and by the way, if was 40 minutes why you haven't told me in the room, because I leaved 20 minuted more? ". More than 30 minutes it's included in one hour tariff, so why don't use at all.
[/QUOTE]
Hey WBS,
Just a quick correction. Italia77 noted that the incident happened in another club. Since the price was 75 for more than a half hour, it was likely NRW. If it was NRW, the time was likely verifiable via a key system (times are logged).
As Italia77 wasn't wearing a watch, it is difficult to know if this was a case of time banditry. I'm sure time banditry occurs at Palace as it does at many other clubs. The only time I have been subjected to time banditry was at Oase a couple of years ago. Girl insisted we went over 30 minutes and that I owed her an addition fiddy. I pointed to my watch and told her exactly when our session started and that I was happy to speak with management about it. She backed down so fast it would make your head spin.
Moral of the story. Buy a watch and take control of the situation. And read Ortos' excellent tips.
Regards,
EL
-
[QUOTE=Ortos]
--Wear a frickin watch! (I just by a cheap 10Euro watch across from the train station) and make sure the girl sees you look at the time once you enter the room.
[/QUOTE]
I cannot stress how important this is. This was one of the first 'tips' that I learned as a FKK newbie a few years ago, and have lived by it religiously since.
No Rolexes needed, a cheap old one from Wal-Mart (or your country's closest equivalent) will do :)
Make sure you give it a quick glance while taking it off, and if she sees you doing it, all the better.
-
[QUOTE=N O R E]I cannot stress how important this is. This was one of the first 'tips' that I learned as a FKK newbie a few years ago, and have lived by it religiously since.
No Rolexes needed, a cheap old one from Wal-Mart (or your country's closest equivalent) will do :)
Make sure you give it a quick glance while taking it off, and if she sees you doing it, all the better.[/QUOTE]
First of all I certainly do not claim to know Palace and the types of experiences one has there. But I do know Artemis rather well and this is another "city" FKK where the girls there can be pretty wily.
So simply add this as another perspective.
While I do see the wisdom of using a watch and how it can assure that you do in fact get your alloted time, I myself do not own one and have no plans to buy one. For me, the type of session I aim for is a session in which the girl is really not that concerned about a few extra, even as much as 10, extra minutes.
Do I find this type of girl? All the time. Not exclusively mind you but often.
If you yourself are watching the clock how can you expect the girl not to be?
And when I do make a bad choice with a girl I am usually, for reasons other than time, more or less content to just finish the session, orgasm or not, pay the girl her minimum fee and get out of there, chalk it up to experience, and move on.
And it has never happened to me that I get a surprise a the locker with the girl informing me that we have gone over the half hour and I owe her for a second. But then I always, always mention to the girl that I am wanting the basic half hour session to start. Unless I know the girl or, as with my recent session with Sina, it becomes obvious at the start that I wan to extend.
As I say-just another perspective.
-
[QUOTE=Ekliges Lauern]
Just a quick correction. Italia77 noted that the incident happened in another club. Since the price was 75 for more than a half hour, it was likely NRW. If it was NRW, the time was likely verifiable via a key system (times are logged).
[/QUOTE]
EL,
Yeah..., it is true. Sorry for my poor english skill and thanks for the correction.
Regards, WBS
-
[QUOTE=Ortos]
--Try to learn some German, if you can. It helps! I'm not saying these rip-offs never happen to German guests, but for sure they do happen less often.
--Even if you speak English or whatever, employ a bit of deception yourself, by telling the girl you actually live and work in Germany not too far away and will be making regular visits to the club.
--Take your time to select your session mates, be observant and know the rules of the game. Be the player yourself, don't let the girl play you!
--Wear a frickin watch! (I just by a cheap 10Euro watch across from the train station) and make sure the girl sees you look at the time once you enter the room.
[/QUOTE]
Ortos,
Yeah, ok. Thank your for your advice.
My main residence is in Paris, 4 hours from Frankfurt by train. Actually I have ever visited Palace more than one hundred times. Many Palace regulars girls know me. And that was not my first session with Aisha, so I was a repeater customer for her. This is why I did not expected to have problem with her.
I use to be one of mongers with the most suspicious eyes like yours (Let's call it Ortos s'eyes), however now I prefere to take action instantly, throwing myself down instinctively with lust. As a result, many faillure. But I enjoy faillures. For FKK mongering I bought a Casio's divers watch I can bring it to sauna and jaccuzi, this one have chrono function but I have never timed session.
I once tried to study german, in vain. I am a kind of specialist of japanese litterature and wanna continue to study chinese, russian and italian for my own pleasure. To study german is over my capacity.
WBS
-
I didn't know time in NRW clubs was verifiable via key system. Good trick, next time I will ask to the girl at the desk, anyway the club was Planet Happy Garden, sorry guys I didn't mention too much of the club to avoid to make mess in the Palace' thread.
Anyway, I like Palace, was my first fkk in 2007. And I adore the dirt porn atmosphere of the palace' kino. I simply like it. Even if the club becoming every year more commercial and you risk lackness of pure sex performance with some great points of gfe experience.
Not all bad anyway, because, even if you arrive on a Saturday, the trick is always the same, arrive close to 4pm and you'll get please by a quiet girl without the mess of a crowd night. That's it.
In my point of fkks' view, I simply don't like girls start with: "hello, go for a room? " and start to massage your dick. I like to speak 5 min before. Look in the eyez, caressing, maybe smiling and have fun. If all goes just a kiss before to move to the room. That's my wonder steps in a fkk scale. And if you are in the kino, maybe don't need a room. But just let it flows.
And now the Palace seems to be changed, I've seen the site, something is changed from my last visit in nov.08. Palace, I think it's good for men like to be hunted, maybe for little shy men, because the girls hunt you and I can understand men what wanna choose by theirself disagree this pressure by the girls. But the Frankfurt area is almost like this, instead in NRW I. E. Dusseldorf and Kolh, the girls don't approach you, so pretty good if you are able to seduce a woman and wanna take time to choose, instead pretty difficult if you are shy and you'll wish a woman's approach. At least you will count on a eyez contact.
Later
[size=-2][b][u]EDITOR'S NOTE[/u]:[/b] [blue]I would suggest that the author or another Forum Member consider posting a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please [url=http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php]Click Here[/url] for more information.[/blue][/size]
-
[QUOTE=West By Sun]
I use to be one of mongers with the most suspicious eyes like yours (Let's call it Ortos s'eyes), however now I prefere to take action instantly, throwing myself down instinctively with lust. As a result, many faillure. But I enjoy faillures.
WBS[/QUOTE]
I don't think my eyes are especially suspicious --they are normally quite red though :). However, I do attempt to get a "read" on a girl and try to "feel" the vibes from her as to whether or not she will be genuine and honest and the kind of GF performer I seek. I too sometimes just go all-in, following some sudden attraction to some girls without going through any of the important steps to ascertain her real nature. Like you, sometimes I fall flat and have a dud session, but sometimes you win too! There are times when I take a chance on a girl and then start to get red flags about her, e.g. when we have to wait for a room and I try to kiss her or start some kind of action on the couch pre-zimmer. Then, if she gives me red flags, I sometimes (to the girl's surprise) abort the session. Some of them try to protest, but then I point out that we have not really engaged in any real action, therefore I am well within my rights to abort. I told a couple of them that they should have been a bit more affectionate on the couch and then I would have loved to carry on...but there are just too many other girls who will give me a solid performance, so why should I risk it...? Should have seen their faces...:) We all live and learn from experience, it works both ways...right?
[QUOTE=Angus Magee]First of all I certainly do not claim to know Palace and the types of experiences one has there. But I do know Artemis rather well and this is another "city" FKK where the girls there can be pretty wily.
[/QUOTE]
I think that of all the FKK clubs, Palace is closest to Artemis in many ways...Indeed many girls who work at Palace also float over to Artemis from time to time. I hope one day you will be able to visit Palace and make your own analytical assessment...
Ortos
-
[QUOTE=Ortos] We all live and learn from experience, it works both ways...right?[/QUOTE]
I think that being gently honest with the girls this way is good for them (though they may not see it this way) good for you and good for the business in general. Were more mongers to demand-in a nice way-good, fair service then service over all would have to improve.
And maybe I am ever a bit of an optimist.
-
Sound practical advice
[QUOTE=Ortos] ...
--Wear a frickin watch! (I just by a cheap 10Euro watch across from the train station) and make sure the girl sees you look at the time once you enter the room.
Ortos[/QUOTE]
I fully agree.
It seems that the FKK Palace is going downhill, since i had my last ugly session 2 years ago. read here : [url]http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?p=657650&highlight=FKK+Palace#post657650[/url]
Regards.
B.B.
