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Dear All,
It's been a while have not travel to Bangkok, anyone can give us the present on going rate at those bars in nana entertainment plaza? Last time I pay 800 baht for barfine and 2500 baht for ST and 4000 baht for LT. Thanks for feedback.
Cheers,
MD.
[QUOTE=Syzygies;2356801]I write straight, and certainly was not trying to be funny in the slightest. Hilarious, no way!
Simple facts, you wrote that you kicked her out, and seems because you could not tolerate her "joke". Yeh the crying girl was punished. Doesn't matter how you try to justify it and claim a good mood, most of us get it.[/QUOTE]"kicked her out" is just an accepted expression for asking the girl to leave early or without completing the deed. Did you also think I literally put my foot on her butt and shoved her out the door?
[QUOTE=Smoothy;2357022]You appear to be naive. Most of the girls in PI, Indonesia and Thailand allow bareback if their price is met.[/QUOTE]I'll take it further than that. Bareback sex has been the norm and accepted as "standard service" in the vast majority of Thai brothels, among freelancers, massage shops and every other P4P option since forever, even during the briefly and only mildly enforced "100% Condom Use" push by the Thai government in the late 1980's and early 1990's.
How do I know that? Because Thai men are by far the most common customers for Thai hookers and by and large they aren't using condoms. As an aside, most Westerners have misinterpreted what that "100% Condom Use" push was, even to the point of thinking it was some kind of law, official rule or regulation. No. It was merely a push by the government asking bar and brothel owners not to penalize, punish or give refunds when a girl chooses not to give what had then as well as now been accepted around the country as "standard service" bareback sex. It was asking them to give the girl the power to say No to any customer for bareback sex for any reason without penalty. I think that is a reasonable, good policy. But it is only a policy chosen by the particular bar or brothel owner and the particular girl. Nothing more.
Bareback sex might not be "standard service" for some customers in some red light districts, by the choice of those customers and the particular hookers they take. There is no handbook, no guidebook, no national agreement and certainly no law or official regulation limiting anything decided upon between a hooker and her customer. And for the country of Thailand, bareback sex is far and away more "standard service" than DFK, Rimming and BBBJ+CIM, which, ironically, many Westerners in those certain red light districts think is or ought to be standard service.
[QUOTE=Crocodilexp;2357035]This time, before you went to the room, did you specifically agree you'd fuck her barback and cum in her pussy, or was it once again your personal interpretation of "will do everything"?[/QUOTE]No, I did not renegotiate out on the street with a girl I've been with twice within the past 2 weeks already. She could have told me she wanted to change the rules while we stood on Soi 4 and chatted briefly about her week in the province, during the leisurely 15 minute walk to my room, when we stopped to get food for her at a street cart, when we went into 7-11 for her to get an ice cream cup, anytime along the way. Obviously she hadn't "forgotten" that our deal was we engage in BBFS+CIP and I pay her 1,500 baht since she is the one that brought it up before she got undressed.
However, on the "Everything, up to you" exchange in general, and not that it was that way with the above girl, there is usually more to it than simply hearing the word "Everything" and assuming "anything" without further investigation. It is easy to confirm that the girl knows the meaning of "Everything" but is simply not saying it directly the way most Thai girls will not do on the street or in a bar anyway.
It usually goes something like this, whether it is a FL or a bargirl, doesn't much matter:
(Whatever asking price) 2,500 baht? Pang pang (expensive). What will be do in the room?
"Huh?"
What will we do for 2,500 baht?
"Everything. Up to you. I will make you happy! 2 hours. Oh, except butt sex. I don't like. Haha"
Everything? Jing jing? (Really?) No problem about that other thing. I don't like butt sex.
"Jing jing haha"
Great! I like Everything, Up To Me, You Make Me Happy. Ok. I will give you 2,500 baht for that.
"Ok!"
Sorry, but when a Thai girl looks an English speaking Westerner in the face, says it that way with plenty of opportunities to redefine the terms, clarify, make other exceptions, ask further what I mean, not confirm at any point if she wants, etc and accompanies it with a request for an amount of money greater than the average weekly pay in her country for 2 hours of her time and effort, it is ridiculous for her to then feign ignorance in the room or try to make you believe there must have been a misunderstanding, blah, blah, blah.
I am not saying the girl won't feign ignorance and all that anyway. She might. But she has no real standing to do it. The one who was led to misunderstand was the customer, not the girl. It is ridiculous for her to be the one who misunderstood considering she has probably been hit up for BBFS+CIP 10 times in the past two weeks and she knows damn well what she was hoping you would think in order to get you to pay her barfine or walk away with her on the street.
Should the customer then be exceedingly specific with something like, "Oh. You mean Bareback Fucking, no condom is ok for you?" Only if the guy wants to push her into saying No on the street when the strong implication in all its typical Thai style of communication was it would be Yes in the room. IMO, the implication here with that kind of exchange without spelling it out is as blatant as when the girl takes a condom package out of her purse, lays it on the bedside table and then says nothing more about it, never reaches for it and never requires it during the session. Now, when she does not reach for it, is that also the moment the customer should blurt out, "Golly gee! Does this mean you want us to fuck without that thing?" Sure. If he wants her to roll her eyes, shake her head and reach for the condom package to open it and put it on his dick.
[QUOTE=EihTooms;2357114]"kicked her out" is just an accepted expression for asking the girl to leave early or without completing the deed. Did you also think I literally put my foot on her butt and shoved her out the door?[/QUOTE]The issue I have with your behavior is that you were obviously just trying to teach this girl a lesson. Yes, she tried to change the CIP agreement but both of you handled it in a nice and friendly way. After you told her that was unacceptable she agreed to go ahead and let you CIP per your original agreement.
Who knows why she didn't want you to CIP on this specific occasion but she may have had some legitimate reason. You however on your power trip decide to kick her out and teach her a lesson. Well I hope the lesson she learned is to never see you again.
[QUOTE=Kuratla;2357095]Never been there before. Is it 800 baht for one shot or is it 800 baht for a set amount of time (say 30 minutes) and if you can manage two shots in that time then go for it?[/QUOTE]It's 800 baht for one shot.
[QUOTE=EihTooms;2357117]Bareback sex has been the norm and accepted as "standard service" in the vast majority of Thai brothels, among freelancers, massage shops and every other P4P option since forever, even during the briefly and only mildly enforced "100% Condom Use" push by the Thai government in the late 1980's and early 1990's. [/QUOTE]
No, that is just not true. Condom usage has been high since the AIDS scare in the 1990's. Never 100%, but high. No need to enforce it when you see people around you dying of AIDS; education was sufficient. In Thailand, HIV infection rates were rapidly rising at one point, and then went down due to higher condom use. That's a proven fact unless you prefer some odd conspiracy theory.
I've actually visited quite a few Thai brothels a fair number of times (not just Rachada massage parlors, but the real working-class ones) and I'm not just engaging in mere speculation. Condom use in those places is consistent (and service level rather low overall, but that's a different topic). Seems like you like to believe things which make you feel better about your own practices that put others (both punters and working girls) at risk.
[QUOTE=HoustonPlayer;2357163]The issue I have with your behavior is that you were obviously just trying to teach this girl a lesson. Yes, she tried to change the CIP agreement but both of you handled it in a nice and friendly way. After you told her that was unacceptable she agreed to go ahead and let you CIP per your original agreement.
Who knows why she didn't want you to CIP on this specific occasion but she may have had some legitimate reason. You however on your power trip decide to kick her out and teach her a lesson. Well I hope the lesson she learned is to never see you again.[/QUOTE]She said I might be offended by "her smell" if I finished CIP since she had just finished her period the day before. I asked her about that further, what did she mean and all, because frankly it made no sense, I'd never heard such a thing before. She was not "joking", there was plenty of opportunity for her to laugh and say so. Which would have been out of character for her anyway.
No, the reason she was fumphering around trying to come up with a reason why the new rule was "no CIP" is very, very likely to be the usual one with girls when they change that particular rule, which isn't very often but does happen.
Would you like to know what that usual reason is? It is about a boyfriend, husband or sponsor the girl lives with or sees so often and on whom she relies for regular, ongoing income. You see, between the earlier times when she was carried away or just plain fine with BBFS+CIP and subsequent times, she has had more time to figure out that if she ever comes up pregnant or with a bug of some kind, what will she tell her unknowing sponsor or live-in boyfriend.
I know that possibility didn't occur to you when you were searching for reasons to blame the customer here. But, in reality, if I had posted a 5 chapter tome on everything I ever saw or heard this girl say and do, maybe you would have come to the same conclusion. In my case, I don't think it matters one whit why a girl changes the rules. I don't need to know the reason, it isn't my right or business to know why, as far as I'm concerned she doesn't need a reason at all. Of course, the inclination is to ask why at the moment. But I did not pursue it any more than that.
Her decision this time around with me was to assume, "He's a nice guy. I won't tell him until we get to the room. He'll probably not have sex with me but pay me anyway. " A classic assumption.
Her scramble at the last second to come up with the bit about how she was only joking was clear as a bell she'd been cornered by my not being that kind of "nice guy" into agreeing to something she really, really did not want to do since it might someday jeopardize her ongoing income stream. You could have laughed off such an attempt and fucked her bareback and cum into her pussy then if you had been in my position. But, for me, I am never so desperate for an ejaculation with any particular girl this very minute that I felt the need to take advantage of the situation. Besides, there was plenty of time for her to go out and get another customer.
[QUOTE=Crocodilexp;2357173]I've actually visited quite a few Thai brothels a fair number of times (not just Rachada massage parlors, but the real working-class ones) and I'm not just engaging in mere speculation. Condom use in those places is consistent (and service level rather low overall, but that's a different topic). Seems like you like to believe things which make you feel better about your own practices that put others (both punters and working girls) at risk.[/QUOTE]Very true. Until the punter says "I don't like to use condom, I will give you 500 baht more if we have sex with no condom. " In that case, the condom is quickly thrown aside. Anyone who thinks these girls always use condoms is kidding themselves.
I also used to think they always used condoms, but now i realize that is just not the truth.
[QUOTE=EihTooms;2357132]
"Everything. Up to you. I will make you happy! 2 hours. Oh, except butt sex. I don't like. Haha"
Everything? Jing jing? (Really?) No problem about that other thing. I don't like butt sex.
"Jing jing haha"
Great! I like Everything, Up To Me, You Make Me Happy. Ok. I will give you 2,500 baht for that.
"Ok!"
Should the customer then be exceedingly specific with something like, "Oh. You mean Bareback Fucking, no condom is ok for you?" Only if the guy wants to push her into saying No on the street when the strong implication in all its typical Thai style of communication was it would be Yes in the room. [/QUOTE]
So, you weasel your way through an ambiguous conversation in the street, not stating clearly what you want (BBFS CIP is [I]not[/I] part of typical fare), but only establishing a pretext for what's to come. Then, once in the room, you pressure her into doing unsafe things and risking her health, when she's already committed to the session and locked in with a Farang 2 x her size who might react unpredictably and would certainly kick her out with no money if she refuses? Great plan, sir, what an admirable human being.
[QUOTE=Crocodilexp;2357173]No, that is just not true. Condom usage has been high since the AIDS scare in the 1990's. Never 100%, but high. No need to enforce it when you see people around you dying of AIDS; education was sufficient. In Thailand, HIV infection rates were rapidly rising at one point, and then went down due to higher condom use. That's a proven fact unless you prefer some odd conspiracy theory.
I've actually visited quite a few Thai brothels a fair number of times (not just Rachada massage parlors, but the real working-class ones) and I'm not just engaging in mere speculation. Condom use in those places is consistent (and service level rather low overall, but that's a different topic). Seems like you like to believe things which make you feel better about your own practices that put others (both punters and working girls) at risk.[/QUOTE]Are you taken to be a Thai man when you go into those brothels?
I have never seen a Thai man buying a condom in a 7-11 or a drug store.
[QUOTE=Crocodilexp;2357182]So, you weasel your way through an ambiguous conversation in the street, not stating clearly what you want (BBFS CIP is [I]not[/I] part of typical fare), but only establishing a pretext for what's to come. Then, once in the room, you pressure her into doing unsafe things and risking her health, when she's already committed to the session and locked in with a Farang 2 x her size who might react unpredictably and would certainly kick her out with no money if she refuses? Great plan, sir, what an admirable human being.[/QUOTE]Which part of my report on the Soi 4 girl or any other report gives you the impression I ever pressure them into anything in the room? The part where I say, ok no problem, I'll give you travel money?
BBFS+CIP is absolutely the typical fare for me with the girls I take. And the only time I am not pestered for repeats on a daily basis is when I don't bother to ask for their Line ID or agree to give them mine the first time around.
[QUOTE=Smoothy;2357179]Very true. Until the punter says "I don't like to use condom, I will give you 500 baht more if we have sex with no condom. " In that case, the condom is quickly thrown aside. Anyone who thinks these girls always use condoms is kidding themselves.
I also used to think they always used condoms, but now i realize that is just not the truth.[/QUOTE]That's about it. In fact, the 1,500 baht I had paid this particular girl the two previous times was no doubt 500 baht more than she usually gets for ST (she never wanted to even discuss LT. imo, another tell about a boyfriend or sponsor). I have never been quoted higher than 1,500 baht by any Soi 4 girl, even the best looking ones that seem to have no problem getting plenty of customers.
I think even Syzygies' higher standard Soi 4 girl was only asking 1,200 baht from him and the customer before him he saw her chatting with. There was apparently no discussion between him and her on the street or in the room about BBFS+CIP. But I'm guessing another 500 baht would do it IF the girl was willing to go Bareback with any customers at all.
[QUOTE=EihTooms;2357183]Are you taken to be a Thai man when you go into those brothels?
I have never seen a Thai man buying a condom in a 7-11 or a drug store.[/QUOTE]Do you think they have to bring their own condoms when they visit a brothel? Your statement that bareback is the norm in Thailand is just BS. I agree that it is available on a larger scale than many people think, but it is certainly not the norm.
If it is the norm, as you state, then it should be easy for you to 'go with the flow'. But we all know you hardly ever do that. You want to know in advance if BBFS + CIP is on the menu. You make that clear in almost every other post (which to be honest is getting a bit annoying).
[QUOTE=Smoothy;2357179]Anyone who thinks these girls always use condoms is kidding themselves.
I also used to think they always used condoms, but now i realize that is just not the truth.[/QUOTE]That is indeed not the truth and yet we don't see many reports here about STD-infested girls. The risks of barebacking are often exaggerated.