General Info

[QUOTE=Smith Joe]Hey guys don't know if this is the right forum to ask but I will be going to amsterdam/rotterdam area during the last week of August/first week of September. I have never gone to europe so I do have a few questions.

Had a few questions if you guys don't mind.

1) What fkk clubs would you recommend that are a reasonable train ride from the netherlands.

2) If train is not the easiest way what is the easiest mode of transportation.

Thanks a lot guys and apologies if this is not the right place to ask these questions.[/QUOTE]From Venlo, you can take a cab to Goldentime or Villa Vertigo. I think Living Room in Kaarst is the only club within walking distance from a train station.

....concerning Angus' blog

[url]http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=1053950&postcount=2365[/url]

AM

Hi
I thought the whole idea with FKK clubs was that you could have public sex in front of other people, as at swingers clubs, but I have learned that it is not working properly so.

Ok, you can have sex in the dark TV room, most of the girls agree with that, but sex in the Bar-area, on the sofas, etc is almost impossible to have.

I have had sex one time at the sofa in the bar at FKK-palace, but it belongs to the exceptions.

Last Saturday at FKK-Artemis, all the girls refused me sex in the round beds in the bar whithout the curtains blocking,

If you want a blowjob in the bar, you must go to Bangkok

If not public sex is possible, I think FKK clubs are just big brothels.

BL

[QUOTE=ButtLover]Hi
I thought the whole idea with FKK clubs was that you could have public sex in front of other people, as at swingers clubs, but I have learned that it is not working properly so.

Ok, you can have sex in the dark TV room, most of the girls agree with that, but sex in the Bar-area, on the sofas, etc is almost impossible to have.

I have had sex one time at the sofa in the bar at FKK-palace, but it belongs to the exceptions.

Last Saturday at FKK-Artemis, all the girls refused me sex in the round beds in the bar whithout the curtains blocking,

If you want a blowjob in the bar, you must go to Bangkok

If not public sex is possible, I think FKK clubs are just big brothels.

BL[/QUOTE]

I do not believe that the whole point to FKK is public sex. Nudity in the club yes but not public sex. And even the nudity seems to be on the decline at clubs like Artemis which are, in my opinion, more of a big brothel with a club like atmosphere.

Public sex at Artemis does happen. I have seen a full on FFM, fucking, sucking, lesbian, the works, threesome take place on one of the sofas on the raised section of the bar. I have seen a MMF threesome on one of the round beds with curtains open and the girl being rotisseried by the men. `She was very enthusiastic and vocal. I myself have had an more or less open curtain session on the same beds. But at Artemis these things tend to happen on the busier wild nights. I doubt seriously you would find any takers during quieter times. Many of the girls are actually sort of embarrassed by public displays. If you do go again see if you can not find Shiva a thirty something Czech girl with big man-mades. While not certain, I am pretty sure she would do a public session pretty much anytime. I could b wrong but I know she likes public displays. There is also a Ukrainian girl, Vika, who would probably do it on a couch if requested. I have not seen her around for a while though so maybe she has moved on.

Really though if public sex is such a thing for you I wonder why not stick to Partytreff? or clubs like Bernds? Actually, as I remember, in Berlin La Folie was a place for public sex. It is a small bar and several times I saw full on sex in the bar. It seems to have been an option there. This may have changed though as I have not been there for some time.

AM

8 or 9 years ago public sex in FKKs was standard. You'd see couples or groups suck and fuck everywhere. But now it has becomr a mainstream business with different guestsband girls. I remember sessions at sunken Atlantis ...

HB

[QUOTE=Hessen Bub]8 or 9 years ago public sex in FKKs was standard. You'd see couples or groups suck and fuck everywhere. But now it has becomr a mainstream business with different guestsband girls. I remember sessions at sunken Atlantis ...

HB[/QUOTE]

Fair enough. I am a relative newbie to the scene despite my sometime propensity for appearing an expert ;)

I am actually pretty interested in the history of the FKK clubs, how they came to be, what they were like, how they have changed. I have always wondered, for instance, about the FKK name. As I understand it FKK was a sort of nudist movement and had little, if anything, to do with sex, let alone prostitution. How did the first clubs come to name themselves after this nudist movement? I have come across a book (in German and I did not get too much of the text) about FKK the movement in the DDR. The pictures alone in the book were great, depicting comrades engaged in sport, work and social activities all in the buff.

AM

[QUOTE=Angus Magee]Fair enough. I am a relative newbie to the scene despite my sometime propensity for appearing an expert ;)

I am actually pretty interested in the history of the FKK clubs, how they came to be, what they were like, how they have changed. I have always wondered, for instance, about the FKK name. As I understand it FKK was a sort of nudist movement and had little, if anything, to do with sex, let alone prostitution. How did the first clubs come to name themselves after this nudist movement? I have come across a book (in German and I did not get too much of the text) about FKK the movement in the DDR. The pictures alone in the book were great, depicting comrades engaged in sport, work and social activities all in the buff.

AM[/QUOTE]FKK= FreiKoerperKultur see FKK-Online.de also info in english.

It is a naturist movement with camps, meeitngs etc.Bernds has been called the mother of FKK clubs with prostitution.

Perhaps starts your research there?

Can we expect a book?

Invite HB to join the team!

[QUOTE=Angus Magee]I am actually pretty interested in the history of the FKK clubs, how they came to be, what they were like, how they have changed. I have always wondered, for instance, about the FKK name. As I understand it FKK was a sort of nudist movement and had little, if anything, to do with sex, let alone prostitution. How did the first clubs come to name themselves after this nudist movement? I have come across a book (in German and I did not get too much of the text) about FKK the movement in the DDR. The pictures alone in the book were great, depicting comrades engaged in sport, work and social activities all in the buff.[/QUOTE]I don't claim to be an expert historian here, but I do know that the FKK concept has been around much, much longer than our beloved clubs. And it still flourishes in this "open-air" form so far as I know.

However, it sometimes seems to be an almost puritannical society, occupied with itself, and open sexuality is usually "tabu", as Basketcase recently reported. And the large majority of the women, even if they were available, do not belong - how shall we put it? - to the category that would instantly cause a shift in Toscana's towel arrangement.

I suspect the clubs that we know today assumed the FKK brand for legal reasons, including as a way of keeping the nudity on the right side of the law. And let us indeed offer thanks to those brilliant, brave pioneers of ten, twelve, fifteen years ago.

[QUOTE=Toscana]
I suspect the clubs that we know today assumed the FKK brand for legal reasons, including as a way of keeping the nudity on the right side of the law. And let us indeed offer thanks to those brilliant, brave pioneers of ten, twelve, fifteen years ago.[/QUOTE]

Bernds, the "Mutter aller Clubs," c. 1982-3 took advantage of an already existing concept in Germany to skirt the law. "Furthering prostitution," i.e. running a brothel wouldn't be legal for another 20 years or so.

Hence their now deceased founder offered a place where men and women could come together, be naked, have fun, and whatever they did in the rooms on-site was their business, not the club's. ;) If the women wanted to charge for their company, that's their concern. ;) And to minimize the chance of trouble and perhaps due to only a small interest level then it was only open weekends and only in the basement.

[More on the club's history is here: [url]http://web.archive.org/web/20060118113945/http://www.bernds-sauna-club.de/[/url]. Click on "Der Hof" to read their story (in German.)]


Over the years, various parts of this model were altered and I presume the "we don't know or care what the women do" part was dropped in 2002 when it was no longer legally necessary.

My source for most of this is one of the regulars there although I've neither checked on nor heard much of this corroborated anywhere else by anyone else. So, it's entirely possible that I could be wrong.

The name FKK (Frei Körper Kultur) was more or less borrowed from a well known and established movement in Germany with a long tradition.

[url]http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freik%C3%B6rperkultur[/url]

For many Germans FKK is a way off living. They visit during summer FKK Campings in Germany or the Mediterane. The only link with FKK clubs is nudity.

These are as far as I am aware of the history, the first 3 FKK-Sauna Clubs in Germany.
The real boom came indeed after 2002 when Prostitution became legal. Now we tend to discriminate between real FKK's and Saunaclubs but that is not based on a formerly agreed definition!
[LIST][*]Club No. 1: [url=http://www.bernds-sauna-club.de]Schieferhof[/url], Hennef (1988)[*]Club No. 2: [url=http://www.grimberg-fkk.de]Grimberg Sauna[/url], Gelsenkirchen (1993)[*]Club No. 3: [url=http://www.planet-happygarden.de]Planet Happy Garden[/url], Tönisvorst (1993)[/LIST]
B30

(Info came from some well respected German members of the Icebearforum who visited those clubs already in the 80s/90s. See Topic there about the origin of FKK-saunaclubs if you want more info)

and I am sure that many of us will find the move to the Big FKK in the Sky smoothed by blessed Bernd as he hands out the locker key and towels, and shares a beer with us with some tips for our first celestial session.

In the mean time......

E.


[QUOTE=Gfe Finder]Bernds, the "Mutter aller Clubs," c. 1982-3 took advantage of an already existing concept in Germany to skirt the law. "Furthering prostitution," i.e. running a brothel wouldn't be legal for another 20 years or so.

Hence their now deceased founder offered a place where men and women could come together, be naked, have fun, and whatever they did in the rooms on-site was their business, not the club's. ;) If the women wanted to charge for their company, that's their concern. ;) And to minimize the chance of trouble and perhaps due to only a small interest level then it was only open weekends and only in the basement.

[/QUOTE]

The reason that these are called FKK sauna clubs is because of the borrowed concept. All across Germany (and Austria, the Germanic portion of Switzerland, the Baltic counries) there are nudist saunas, which are often part of a larger swimming /wellness center. The sauna area in those centers are defined as "FKK areas", so everyone knows that clothing is optional in there.

Indeed since these are family oriented venues (entry to the sauna area may be age restricted in the evenings) overt sexuality is forbidden and results in expulsion. I don't believe that this is meant in any way as puritannical as was posted below, rather as child protection. Germans and indeed most Europeans are decidedly un-puritannical when it comes to the human body and sexuality, especially when compared to the great sex penitentiary I call home.

Bernd originally opened a sauna club in his basement (he still lived upstairs with his family) with a small sauna and pool (the pool was where the basement zimmers are today). That's why it's still called "Bernd's Sauna Club". From my information (gleaned through the years in conversations with people associated with the club), it opened in 1982, only on weekends, and was a private club during its first years. I believe and this is only my own conjecture, that it was originally intended as a club for local swingers, but Bernd understood the potential, and everyone is naked anyway, so why not add some rooms and charge admission.

Other early clubs circa 80's- early 90's were Sankt Agustine in Meinsdorf, and Babylon in Elsdorf.

Until 10 years ago, everyone was naked in these clubs. This has fallen off over the years, and now we make distinctions between "sauna clubs" in which the women are not naked and "Fkk" clubs in which the women are. But, in Bernd's [blue]Sauna Club[/blue] the women are always all naked (except for an unsuccessful attempt recently at Dessoustag Thursdays).

I have been in Bernd`s on several occasions when one or more of the girl`s kept wrapped up in their towel too long following a post session shower, usually while standing at or near the upstairs bar.

Edith or Connie called out loudly enough for all to hear on the floor to the girl, " Remove your towel, X, this is a FKK". Even Mara was caught out wearing the towel once to my knowledge not that any of girls have any inhibitions in being nude at the `Hof.

E.


[QUOTE=Iseeu]The reason that these are called FKK sauna clubs is because of the borrowed concept. All across Germany (and Austria, the Germanic portion of Switzerland, the Baltic counries) there are nudist saunas, which are often part of a larger swimming /wellness center. The sauna area in those centers are defined as "FKK areas", so everyone knows that clothing is optional in there.

Indeed since these are family oriented venues (entry to the sauna area may be age restricted in the evenings) overt sexuality is forbidden and results in expulsion. I don't believe that this is meant in any way as puritannical as was posted below, rather as child protection. Germans and indeed most Europeans are decidedly un-puritannical when it comes to the human body and sexuality, especially when compared to the great sex penitentiary I call home.

Bernd originally opened a sauna club in his basement (he still lived upstairs with his family) with a small sauna and pool (the pool was where the basement zimmers are today). That's why it's still called "Bernd's Sauna Club". From my information (gleaned through the years in conversations with people associated with the club), it opened in 1982, only on weekends, and was a private club during its first years. I believe and this is only my own conjecture, that it was originally intended as a club for local swingers, but Bernd understood the potential, and everyone is naked anyway, so why not add some rooms and charge admission.

Other early clubs circa 80's- early 90's were Sankt Agustine in Meinsdorf, and Babylon in Elsdorf.

Until 10 years ago, everyone was naked in these clubs. This has fallen off over the years, and now we make distinctions between "sauna clubs" in which the women are not naked and "Fkk" clubs in which the women are. But, in Bernd's [blue]Sauna Club[/blue] the women are always all naked (except for an unsuccessful attempt recently at Dessoustag Thursdays).[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Iseeu]except for an unsuccessful attempt recently at Dessoustag Thursdays.[/QUOTE]So does this mean that Dessous Tag Thursdays at Bernd's are a thing of the past? They still advertise that on the event schedule, and I was actually trying to plan my itinerary around it (avoid) on my "Andy's Great London and Germany LMP / PT / FKK Circle Tour" planned for late October.

[QUOTE=Iseeu]The reason that these are called FKK sauna clubs is because of the borrowed concept. All across Germany (and Austria, the Germanic portion of Switzerland, the Baltic counries) there are nudist saunas, which are often part of a larger swimming /wellness center. The sauna area in those centers are defined as "FKK areas", so everyone knows that clothing is optional in there.
[/QUOTE]

No :)! FKK is a way of living, a life style. It is most certainly not related to Saunaclubs, actually in Germany allmost all Saunas are nudist saunas.

I like FKK campings and visited a lot of them, but believe me, in most FKK campings I never found a Sauna area that was designated as a "FKK area" :).

Bernds was the first Sauna club and as you can read on their homepage they are the oldest Sauna Club in the business already for 23 years.

B30