Rants and WTF are you talking about and Coronavirus!

[QUOTE=Mursenary;2554445]Hey,

Remember that time you invited me to go to Bergen, Norway and stay at your place in order to go to a Ariana Grande concert?

Fag.[/QUOTE]That must have been dream in your head, because she never was here.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2554343][URL]https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/12-year-old-walks-150-km-from-telangana-to-her-chhattisgarh-home-dies-of-exhaustion-1669297-2020-04-21[/URL]

[URL]https://www.news18.com/news/india/the-last-walk-migrant-worker-dies-after-walking-for-miles-to-reach-home-in-tamil-nadu-amid-lockdown-2563719.html[/URL]

I'm so tired here on ISG sometimes discussing. So many in here are completely lost and have zero clue as to even make a simple Google search. And absolutely no awareness when it comes to analytics given the scales of unregistered data.[/QUOTE]Wow, you must be the king of extrapolations if you base your apocalyptic claims on two cases.

[QUOTE=HammerTime96;2554417]It's hard to debate with the sad facts of history, unless your own brain is whacked! LOL!

Look at the links I posted and do some research of your own.[/QUOTE]It's not the links you posted but your parallels with Nazism that is insulting and disrespectful to all those who suffered from those horrible times (including one of my ancestors). It's also confusing as Trump supporters go hand-in-hand with racist fascist groups, which the mushroom-dick-shape-tiny-hands former president even refused to condemn openly: 'Stand back and Stand by'!

[URL]http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4160-Rants-and-WTF-are-you-talking-about-and-Coronavirus!&p=2554330&viewfull=1#post2554330[/URL]

Now, after settling my actual words (see above), I would be happy to tackle your other point of the American Dream.

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2554247]Your original statement was that it was easy to become wealthy in a generation or half gen. I can't bother to find the exact words but that was the gist of it.

That actually implies that the American dream is alive and well. My claim is that it is not. And even if the dream was alive it was always difficult to move into wealth brackets in a generation and doubly more so these days.

$530 K for a couple and $360 K for a single person takes them to the top 1% income wise. But if they get there, they will find that it is much much tougher to accumulate the $11 M to make it to the 1% net worth bracket. I think the churn in the top 1% or top 10% of the income bracket is much higher than the churn in the top 1% net worth bracket, which still has a lot of old money.

You can give all kinds of hypothetical examples but numbers are numbers. If people making 200 grand or 150 grand could easily vault into wealth levels, it would show up in numbers.[/QUOTE]Is the American Dream alive? That depends on your definition of American dream. Is the American dream to vault into the top 1%? Or even top 10%? If so, I agree that it is not very easy, native-born, immigrant, indentured servant, whatever. Obtaining elite levels of wealth is pretty hard for anyone.

I however, don't think that is the "American Dream" for most people. While having more wealth and assets than you know what to do with would be nice, most people just want to be comfortable without having to worry much about the future.

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2554247]So, my point was that any couple, whether first gen immigrants or those trace to Mayflower, as their wealth increases and their self assessment of their own financial security increases, they begin spending more. You can look down on them as Karens or what have you (again and again, you seem fine with dissing and dispensing your own brand of discrimination and ridicule while still invoking the virtues of woke), but that is just the societal norm. And your personal example of having a million bucks in the bank and still living in frugality is just an outlier.


BTW, these anecdotal examples of immigrants are misleading, even if you find personal connections there. My observation is that there are vast disparities between them. The Korean, Chinese, Indian immigrant who comes to the US to study Computer Science at Georgia Tech or Austin, goes back to native land to bring an equally qualified spouse will surely do well in life even if that guy legitimately came here with $100 in pocket. That $100 is meaningless because he came equipped with a completed degree in CS which is worth millions in NPV already. The taxi driver in NYC (before Uber) or the stowaway smuggled and doing bonded labor in Chinese restaurants do not find any such upwards mobility regardless of how much they save. And in any case, in a country of 330 million, focusing on just a few million immigrant outliers is not sensible.[/QUOTE]Yes I am an outlier, sort of. While I am technically a first generation immigrant, I immigrated pretty early, early enough to enjoy the benefits of American resources and the upward mobility it provides. Many of my second generation peers, who benefited from the sacrifice of their first gen parents, are likely doing the same if not better than me. They might still not make up the majority, but I'd dare say, make up a substantial number more representative than my outlier case. Not that I am even doing all that well compared to many of them.

Some differences exist in culture of origin, say Mexican immigrants coming over to be laborers with less entrepreneurial intent. But how many businesses are opened by Asian immigrants? How much of that is hoarded as cash or sent to their home countries, never even to be reported as net worth? Alternatively, Western European immigrants more often come over with professional backgrounds; however, they seem to retain more old world frugality and credit-aversion than native-born Americans. You can see easily see the trend of various cultures in Table 1 of the following article:

[URL]https://drive.google.com/file/d/1g5rEu5Dzw6kq_OiuZOnve0kyA0xCl4Qt/view?usp=sharing[/URL]

European immigrants put the native-born American to shame. Chinese, Indian, and Japanese immigrants also outperform. Some cultures however lag behind, say Cubans, Mexicans, Islanders. The Vietnamese presents a whole other set of variables with the shady practices and money laundering practices. But even accounting for those people, how many of them are much better off financially by immigrating to the United States?

While you certainly have a point that becoming part of the elite class of wealth is extremely difficult, I vehemently disagree that the American dream is dead. But perhaps that depends on your definition of the American Dream. Being in the top 1% is certainly not one of mine and I doubt is the realistic goal of most people.

[QUOTE=Mursenary;2554445]Hey,

Remember that time you invited me to go to Bergen, Norway and stay at your place in order to go to a Ariana Grande concert?

Fag.[/QUOTE]Brothels friends among jealousy leading to bullshits, so laughable, when I prefer so much people I meet in my mountains, because there, only passion, no bullshits because you would be ridiculous, you are able or not.

[QUOTE=Turgid;2554462]I think this is the future of travel. Get vaccinated and you may visit, if you don't you have to stay home. Will that be extended to FKKs also?

[URL]https://www.yahoo.com/news/european-union-let-vaccinated-americans-215851504.html[/URL][/QUOTE]For sure, EU need tourism, but when EU is not able yet to control about at least 3 mutants and worrying Indian killer now, so EU have to protect better and each country can decide for its own safety, like Bavarian closed borders. Not in EU, but ZH land for everything for money, closed since 6 months, and when famous Globe knows how to deal with money, could be called how to use corruption in Romania, but famous Globe, number 1 in Switzerland, is closed since beginning of December, when only closed for 3 months on first wave, showing now is much more complicated than under original Chinese from pangolins. Negative test and quarantine seem minimum to protect our safety.

[QUOTE=Mursenary;2551339]Playing the game is the most important factor for the middle 80 percent of the world's people. It's pretty damn important for most of the human race; reality, facts. The focus on assets is fine, but that's actually the easiest part which can be built in a single generation; in the US, it's still relatively easy to go from $0 immigrant to 7 figure net worth in half a lifetime. Hell, you can do it in less than a decade..[/QUOTE]I see that you prefer to continue on the path of native-born Americans and wealth. Point remains, this started with my original quote stating that it is still [B]relatively[/B] easy to go from $0 [B]immigrant[/B] to seven figures in support of the opportunities that America provides. Key words immigrants and relatively. Relative to what? Logically, relative to their home countries. Is that fact being contested?

I'll keep posting my original statement as a reminder that all following discussions are not part of my original contested assertion until proven otherwise, so long as this mini thread continues. It's still better than the political tunnel driven and quasi science, superficial knowledge signaling seen by the same weirdo cast.

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2554479]The map argument is flawed. Most Americans do not care very much for foreign countries, languages, cultures, etc. Our dominance in the economic sphere post WW2 meant that Americans' indifference to the rest of the world did not hurt them very much in their personal finances. I notice that even Europeans know a ton more about geography, culture, etc of developing countries and of course they had historical colonial ties to them.[/QUOTE]This is a minor side point but I'll bite. Your reasoning sounds like a weak excuse for American ignorance. My original post pointed to the fact that less than 50% of Americans can point to Iran, Afghanistan, and Iraq on a map. The fact that we have been fighting in wars in those countries for the past four decades should bring some geographic familiarity. I'm thinking that the economic powerhouse excuse is a load of shit. But if you're willing to excuse it, go ahead, lower your bar for our countrymen.

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2554479]On the other hand, almost all Americans would love to have higher net worth if they could. If they could have more self control, more financial discipline, more annual comps, they would but they don't.

A more appropriate analogy* is that most Americans would love to lose weight but can't. You can sit there and argue that losing weight is easy, staying in shape is easy but at the population level, people are getting fatter in the US and probably in most other countries.

Your persistent argument that it is "easy" is not shown in any numbers. A million bucks puts a household in the top 6% of the country. You claim something that is achieved by just 6% of the country is "easy". And your timeframe keeps changing; sometimes it is decades (I. E. Accumulate $200 K in 401 K by 30's and watch it grow to a million by 60's), sometimes it is less than a decade. If you have any stats and convincing / genuine research that shows a meaningful percent of population level households are moving from nothing to millionaire status in less than a decade, you should share.[/QUOTE]You are certainly correct with your statistics of median net worth. There is no need for me to produce countering numbers as I also believe them to be true. The average American net worth is much less than what they should be if the goal is to acquire seven digits worth of assets.

But is that your measure of easy? That the average person does it?

Point is, easy is subjective. I think it is easy. Apparently you don't. You associate easy to mean average people will do it. I think average people are lazy. Hold yourself to whatever standard you choose for easy.

Whatever your opinion, I assume you would agree that it is easy compared to an immigrant's home country. Please tell me if I assumed wrong.

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2554479]I only brought up 1% in the context of how achieving higher annual income for a few years does not translate into higher net worth. One is an income statement issue, the other is a balance sheet issue. Achieving wealth is a marathon game while getting a fast paycheck is more akin to a sprint. The churn in the wealth ranks is slower than in annual salary ranks. For some reason, you can't seem to grasp this.
[/QUOTE]Okay? I get that just fine. Not sure the point of that but sure, wealth and income are different things, agreed.

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2554479]BTW, a million in 401 K is not a million. It is a tax deferred account. If you withdraw it before reaching 59 1/2, there are penalties and of course taxes to be paid in accordance to your tax bracket. When I compute my own net worth, I give a 25% to 30% haircut to my 401 K balance as I assume that will cover any future taxes I will have to pay.[/QUOTE]401 Ks just like IRAs come in 2 forms, taxed and taxed deferred, just like traditional and Roth IRAs. With Taxed 401 Ks you pay the income tax for your current year and pay ZERO dollars when you withdraw, minus the employer contribution which is taxed. You come from a higher tax bracket, and similar to your other points, you make your points based on what you know. You are likely making more now than you would withdraw in your retirement, hence your instinct to only consider tax deferred 401 K accounts. To others making less now, they would benefit more from the tax breaks in their golden years, assuming that they withdraw more in retirement then than they are making now.

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2554479]I did not say anything about dating white women but did start the thread by taking a nasty dig w. r. T.[QUOTE=Pessimist;2553831]No Caucasian woman would put up living on $15 K annual total if you have millions in the bank. None that I know of. And as I said, it does not matter if they already own their house -- there are still fixed expenses (Unless they bought a small studio apartment which was paid off and taxes / insurance etc are miniscule).[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]Again, the record shows otherwise. Or did you mean something else when you said "no Caucasian woman would put up living on 15 K. Please please please correct me if I'm wrong. Perhaps you just brought up Caucasian women randomly just for the hell of it.

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2554479]Fucking white prostitutes out of anger; [/QUOTE]Considering your recent quoting errors, I'd like to see where I said that? Perhaps you are lumping all Asians together and lumping my quotes in with Mr. Ho's punish-a-ho posts?

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2554479]I admit it was nasty but you do have a history of having anger attacks against Whites. Even in the last 2 days, we keep seeing this. I took one potshot at European Moslems after a terrorist attack but your anger against whites appears more deep seated and innate.[/QUOTE]Again, I question the validity of your claim. I cross reference my posts with the word "white" and "Caucasian. " I did not see any blasphemous comments towards white people. Sure I routinely talk shit about backwards rednecks and native-born Americans being lazy. Is that what hit close to home?

I even saw posts that denigrated the liberal media for unfairly calling white people the "oppressor" during last summers riots.

There was that one post that questioned if you were a dorky, old white guy. If that is the source of vitriol, my sincerest apologies.

[QUOTE=Sirioja;2554562]Brothels friends among jealousy leading to bullshits, so laughable, when I prefer so much people I meet in my mountains, because there, only passion, no bullshits because you would be ridiculous, you are able or not.[/QUOTE]You do realize that there are people on this forum who met in brothels and remain real friends years later right? Wait, what am I thinking, of course you wouldn't know.

[QUOTE=ShooBree;2554506]Hahah, you're just a pathetic little troll living in his mother's basement.

Maybe you should try to get a job instead of stalking me all the time?[/QUOTE]Yawn. Keep at it big guy.

Try a thesaurus, 5 bucks on Amazon:

[URL]https://www.amazon.com/Merriam-Webster-Thesaurus/dp/0877798508[/URL]

[QUOTE=ExpatLover;2554497]I think it is too early, if in the coming months even vaccinated people get sick from the mutants specially the Indian one or even not sick but able to transmit the sick to others probably the things will change. Today only few tools are available for the leaders, mass lockdown, severe quarantine, drastic reductions of the travels which are the big driver for the spreading of the covid but all this is not acceptable on a long run or forcing the people to vaccinate even nobody knows today the potential side effects or the efficiency of the vaccines. Make the vaccinated feel they are a kind of VIP, all this will need some time to be really validated.[/QUOTE]We're all shocked that is your opinion.

[QUOTE=BigBuddy69;2554464]Wow that's so cute. Do you follow her on Instagram? Will you both wear cat ears?[/QUOTE]I know right?

Made a mistake though, he actually wanted me to go see Ellie Goulding with him. Ariana Grande was one of his other gay outings in Oslo a couple of months later.

[QUOTE=RockyV;2554535]Wow, you must be the king of extrapolations if you base your apocalyptic claims on two cases.[/QUOTE]Right.

[URL]https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-52086274[/URL]

This time, hundreds of thousands of migrant workers are desperately trying to return home in their own country. Battling hunger and fatigue, they are bound by a collective will to somehow get back to where they belong. Home in the village ensures food and the comfort of the family, they say.

Others on the road included a five-year-old boy who was on a 700 km (434 miles) journey by foot with his father, a construction worker, from Delhi to their home in Madhya Pradesh state in central India. "When the sun sets we will stop and sleep," the father told journalist Barkha Dutt. Another woman walked with her husband and two-and-a-half year old daughter, her bag stuffed with food, clothes and water. "We had a place to stay but no money to buy food," she said.

Then there was Rajneesh, a 26-year-old automobile worker who walking 250 km (155 miles) to his village in neighbouring Uttar Pradesh. It would take him four days, he reckoned. "We will die walking before coronavirus hits us," the man told Ms Dutt.

He was not exaggerating. Last week, a 39-year-old man on a 300 km (186 miles) trek from Delhi to Madhya Pradesh complained of chest pain and exhaustion and died; and a 62-year-old man, returning from a hospital by foot in Gujarat, collapsed outside his house and died. Four other migrants, turned away at the borders on their way to Rajasthan from Gujarat, were mowed down by a truck on a dark highway.

Google it and you will find maybe a thousand hits mentioning different cases.

[QUOTE=RockyV;2554535]Wow, you must be the king of extrapolations if you base your apocalyptic claims on two cases.[/QUOTE][URL]https://scroll.in/latest/957570/covid-19-lockdown-man-collapses-dies-halfway-while-walking-home-300-km-away-from-delhi[/URL]

Thousands of migrant workers have been trying to get home, with many of them attempting to cross state borders, amid the 21-day lockdown imposed to curb the spread of the novel coronavirus. Many of them have died. While the deaths of at least 22 such migrants are documented, the actual number might be much more.

[QUOTE=Mursenary;2554549][URL]http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4160-Rants-and-WTF-are-you-talking-about-and-Coronavirus!&p=2554330&viewfull=1#post2554330[/URL]

Now, after settling my actual words (see above), I would be happy to tackle your other point of the American Dream.

Is the American Dream alive? That depends on your definition of American dream. Is the American dream to vault into the top 1%? Or even top 10%? If so, I agree that it is not very easy, native-born, immigrant, indentured servant, whatever. Obtaining elite levels of wealth is pretty hard for anyone.

I however, don't think that is the "American Dream" for most people. While having more wealth and assets than you know what to do with would be nice, most people just want to be comfortable without having to worry much about the future.

Yes I am an outlier, sort of. While I am technically a first generation immigrant, I immigrated pretty early, early enough to enjoy the benefits of American resources and the upward mobility it provides. Many of my second generation peers, who benefited from the sacrifice of their first gen parents, are likely doing the same if not better than me. They might still not make up the majority, but I'd dare say, make up a substantial number more representative than my outlier case. Not that I am even doing all that well compared to many of them..[/QUOTE]Yes, my use of the phrase "American dream" was loosely and poorly used, should not have done that. I do think moving up the wealth ladder is a dream for most Americans; it doesn't have to be about 1% or 10%, more so about upwards mobility. Stagnation and lack of improvement do make many people feel like they are regressing. But yes, most people couldn't care about 1% or 10%, those are just stats for internet arguments.

That said, I think upwards mobility itself has become quite a bit tough. I agree with much of the analysis of Piketty, or what little I read of his work. Due to technology impact and global supply chains which imported deflation into the US, a lot of the labor in this country lost their bargaining power (especially the blue collar labor) and the owners of capital have benefited at their expense (and the lucky employees in knowledge work). I don't subscribe to Piketty's extreme progressive tax recommendations purely out of selfishness as I am already paying an obscene amount but logically he makes a good amount of sense.

I have not studied all these immigrant groups, their cultures and success rates. Being in tech and finance, I see tons of Asian and Indian types and not as much of other immigrants. In my mind, it is less a question of where they came from and more about who is coming. If the immigrant is uneducated and sneaks in illegally, s / he will find it hard to move up; those that come in legally and w / college or postgraduate degree will find good jobs, marry well and give their children good education. For whatever reason, Asian types are more in the latter bucket. Perhaps the oceans prevent them from coming here illegally. I would not attribute the success or failure of various groups to some inherent superiority / inferiority characteristics innately or culturally but the above reasons of legality / education.

[QUOTE=Sirioja;2554571]For sure, EU need tourism, but when EU is not able yet to control about at least 3 mutants and worrying Indian killer now, so EU have to protect better and each country can decide for its own safety, like Bavarian closed borders. Not in EU, but ZH land for everything for money, closed since 6 months, and when famous Globe knows how to deal with money, could be called how to use corruption in Romania, but famous Globe, number 1 in Switzerland, is closed since beginning of December, when only closed for 3 months on first wave, showing now is much more complicated than under original Chinese from pangolins. Negative test and quarantine seem minimum to protect our safety.[/QUOTE]Anyone else understand that "English"? Ugh. Keep it short. Less room for error.