Rio de Janeiro Reports

[QUOTE=Mr Enternational]I'm going to respectfully say bullshit to this one.

1. Since when is fair exchange exploitation?
2. Others who are at the same economic level have not taken this job and put themselves in a position to be "exploited". Explain.
3. Are any of these "economically disadvantaged" being forced to lie with any of us?
4. First world countries have fuck houses (Bunny Ranch, FKK, Amsterdam red light) and street walkers. The job description exists no matter the location's economic standing.
5. When mongers are not fucking in "these areas", 9 times out of 10 they are still fucking in other locations for a higher price per fuck.
6. When total cost is taken into account a monger undoubtedly spends more traveling to "these areas" than he would mongering on his home turf.
7. I think the mongers are the ones being exploited. Take a look at the price disparity of a SP who receives 50 reais/hour in the day time at BA 85 when servicing locals, but commands 200 reais/hour from foreigners later in the night at Balcony.

A. I would argue that anyone with a paying job is "economically disadvantaged." If not, then they would not need the job.

B. We are not exploiting anyone. We are merely making use of the services that were in place long before we came.[/QUOTE]Would you also say that Brazilians (and other top mongering destinations) have the same economic opportunities as we do in the US? Would you also say that some individuals' circumstances do not allow them to work 12 hours a day for 6 days a week for little R$? And as new economic opportunities start coming do you see more options for people to make livable wages in other lines of work? Would you personally pay $1000 or more US to go to the Bunny Ranch? Isn't a monger paying to go to Rio for a vacation too (in most cases), or increasingly going there on other business?

A monger can also go to BA 85 and pay the local rates. If a monger does not wish to do their research, or go to the available low cost options, and wants convenience they can pay higher prices. Like stopping at 7 / 11 for a loaf of bread instead of a supermarket. You'll pay double but you did not hassle with going to the market. Is that exploitation or a convenience charge? After all, the monger has the option.

Interesting to see how you got to mongers being the ones exploited in 7 easy steps. Nice attempt, but I ain't feeling sorry for anyone here.

[QUOTE=Mr Enternational]

B. We are not exploiting anyone. We are merely making use of the services that were in place long before we came.[/QUOTE]

Like I said in my post below:

"So there is that dilemma and most of us deal with it by, consciously or not, saying I didn't cause this, it is already here, might as well join in the fun."

The fact is that in places like Thailand, they have built this industry in response to demand from foreigners. So maybe it is a favor to give them relatively high paying jobs? I agree with one thing -- it exists in a lot of places so it is not *simply* poverty. You also have the other reason I mentioned -- they are willing to take an undesirable job for higher pay.

My experience is that most of them have family obligations -- they have a small child and have been deserted by the father, for example. Others send money to family and in still other situations, the family is in debt and sells the girl into this obligation. A regular job at such low wages won't get it done. There are other reasons, but this has to be the overriding one on the world scale.

[QUOTE=Mr Enternational] 5. When mongers are not fucking in "these areas", 9 times out of 10 they are still fucking in other locations for a higher price per fuck.[/QUOTE]Where are you getting these stats from? What is that # based on? I personally have come to know 7 guys that now only monger when they go to Brazil, DR or other parts of Central and SA on business. Back at home, they have relationships, marriages, etc. A few used to dabble in Vegas hookers when there on business. But "have gotten spoiled by the excellent service and cheap prices in Latin America and elsewhere."

[QUOTE=Mr Enternational] B. We are not exploiting anyone. We are merely making use of the services that were in place long before we came.[/QUOTE]So, isn't another way of saying this is that mongers have been exploiting people for a long time?

[QUOTE=SlimHoleDrill]Like I said in my post below:

"So there is that dilemma and most of us deal with it by, consciously or not, saying I didn't cause this, it is already here, might as well join in the fun."

The fact is that in places like Thailand, they have built this industry in response to demand from foreigners. So maybe it is a favor to give them relatively high paying jobs? I agree with one thing -- it exists in a lot of places so it is not *simply* poverty. You also have the other reason I mentioned -- they are willing to take an undesirable job for higher pay.

My experience is that most of them have family obligations -- they have a small child and have been deserted by the father, for example. Others send money to family and in still other situations, the family is in debt and sells the girl into this obligation. A regular job at such low wages won't get it done. There are other reasons, but this has to be the overriding one on the world scale.[/QUOTE]

During my last trip alone, I spoke to one gal that is engaged to be married in December, her boyfriend knows what she is doing, and she plans to work only to November because she will have enough money to buy a house. She says she plans to being a gdp in November. Whether she stops or not, thats debatable, but she will be the proud owner of a house.

As 4 x 4, I met another mulata who has no children, and does not interested in having one anytime soon. She has worked in a spain for a few months, has no desire to go back, and she she calculates that she will have enough cash to buy her house by Febuary of next year. She lives with her mom and sister. Her plan is to quit once she gets the house.

Some meninas save there cash, others blow it. Bottomline, they are working for different purposes. Some because they have kids, and others because they want to improve their own personal situation.

People taking advantage of others? I think it works both ways at certain times. Sometimes I overhear guys say how much they paid for a session, and I feel like I am getting chest pains.......just insane knowing that they paid 400R for a garota that would have accepted 200R, and normally charges between 100-150R to the locals. Those are the moments when I ask myself.......who is taking advantage of whom. It works both ways.

[QUOTE=Mangera]During my last trip alone, I spoke to one gal that is engaged to be married in December, her boyfriend knows what she is doing, and she plans to work only to November because she will have enough money to buy a house. She says she plans to being a gdp in November. Whether she stops or not, thats debatable, but she will be the proud owner of a house.

As 4 x 4, I met another mulata who has no children, and does not interested in having one anytime soon. She has worked in a spain for a few months, has no desire to go back, and she she calculates that she will have enough cash to buy her house by Febuary of next year. She lives with her mom and sister. Her plan is to quit once she gets the house.

Some meninas save there cash, others blow it. Bottomline, they are working for different purposes. Some because they have kids, and others because they want to improve their own personal situation.

People taking advantage of others? I think it works both ways at certain times. Sometimes I overhear guys say how much they paid for a session, and I feel like I am getting chest pains. Just insane knowing that they paid 400R for a garota that would have accepted 200R, and normally charges between 100-150R to the locals. Those are the moments when I ask myself. Who is taking advantage of whom. It works both ways.[/QUOTE]Have anyone read the book Laughter Out Of Place

You will get a better understanding of the brasilian culture

Some brasilian women have no problem using everyting they have to offer including their bodies.

[QUOTE=Mangera]People taking advantage of others? I think it works both ways at certain times. Sometimes I overhear guys say how much they paid for a session, and I feel like I am getting chest pains. Just insane knowing that they paid 400R for a garota that would have accepted 200R, and normally charges between 100-150R to the locals. Those are the moments when I ask myself. Who is taking advantage of whom. It works both ways.[/QUOTE]IT's not called The Oldest Profession for no reason.

[QUOTE=Hughdad]Would you also say that Brazilians (and other top mongering destinations) have the same economic opportunities as we do in the US?[/QUOTE] No. That is what separates the first world countries from the others: opportunity. Most of us have a choice to do different or better. Take my forefathers for instance. When slavery was over in the U.S. they were granted opportunities. Many whites opened schools for them to help them become viable members of American society. Thus, until this day, we have over 100 Historically Black Colleges and Universities in the U.S. When slavery was abolished in Brazil what type of help did the former slaves receive? The same help that people are getting today. Not a damn thing.
[QUOTE=Hughdad]Would you also say that some individuals' circumstances do not allow them to work 12 hours a day for 6 days a week for little R$?[/QUOTE]Of course. Everyone has circumstances that will or will not allow them to do a certain thing.
[QUOTE=Hughdad]And as new economic opportunities start coming do you see more options for people to make livable wages in other lines of work?[/QUOTE]Not in Brazil I don't. I see the rich getting richer and the poor staying poor as has always been the case there. And as long as they have menial jobs such as an elevator operator or a person walking the street with a broom and dustpan I don't see much changing.
[QUOTE=Hughdad]Would you personally pay $1000 or more US to go to the Bunny Ranch?[/QUOTE]HELL NO! It's like pulling teeth to get me to pay R$28 in Vila Mimosa!
[QUOTE=Hughdad]Isn't a monger paying to go to Rio for a vacation too (in most cases), or increasingly going there on other business?[/QUOTE]I would say yes. But many of them fail to leave the block between NS Copa and Av. Atlantica. I remember being at the airport once and seeing some guys going to Rio who had on a bunch of jewelry. I told them that they should take all of it off before getting there. They told me not to worry because the only place they would be going is back and forth to Help.
[QUOTE=Hughdad]Where are you getting these stats from? What is that # based on?[/QUOTE]When I said 9 out of 10 I didn't mean it literally. I was using it figuratively to mean many.
[QUOTE=Hughdad]So, isn't another way of saying this is that mongers have been exploiting people for a long time?[/QUOTE]The same way many of our bosses exploit us. How many workers feel they are underpaid? How many have gotten wage cuts while at the same being required to take on a bigger work load? The good thing is that unless you are caught up in some sort of slave operation there is a revolving door. A person in any job can walk out through the same door they walked in.

[QUOTE=Mr Enternational]The same way many of our bosses exploit us. How many workers feel they are underpaid? How many have gotten wage cuts while at the same being required to take on a bigger work load? The good thing is that unless you are caught up in some sort of slave operation there is a revolving door. A person in any job can walk out through the same door they walked in.[/QUOTE]You're missing something, Enternational: and that is, America is the Land of Opportunity. Where else can a person from nothing. No education, no talent, just plenty of nothing. Go and join the military, milk the tit for 20 years, while discovering how to exploit 3rd world women (I. E. Becoming full-grown man), collect himself a pension and swagger around full of his accomplishment? Why, only in America, the USA! No where else can a person of NO Talent live like like a little king than in the USA. In Brazil, the poor and good-looking girls have their talent and their bank between their legs, but they need a brain to go with it or else they end up in the gutter when they get too old to work.

[QUOTE=Mr Enternational]No. That is what separates the first world countries from the others: opportunity. Most of us have a choice to do different or better. Take my forefathers for instance. When slavery was over in the USA they were granted opportunities. Many whites opened schools for them to help them become viable members of American society. Thus, until this day, we have over 100 Historically Black Colleges and Universities in the USA When slavery was abolished in Brazil what type of help did the former slaves receive? The same help that people are getting today. Not a damn thing

So, you agree that Brazilian have not had the same opportunities as we in the US. This could lead to less choices for them.

[QUOTE=Mr Enternational]Of course. Everyone has circumstances that will or will not allow them to do a certain thing.[/QUOTE]And you agree that some people cannot work the standard 6 days and their options are limited. Again, less choices.

[QUOTE=Mr Enternational]Not in Brazil I don't. I see the rich getting richer and the poor staying poor as has always been the case there. And as long as they have menial jobs such as an elevator operator or a person walking the street with a broom and dustpan I don't see much changing.[/QUOTE]Brazil has a rapidly emerging middle class (110 million strong). There is a housing shortage of over 8 million homes for people that want and can afford houses. And there are 1. 5 million more new families being formed and seeking homes added every year. There will be a major building surge for this middle class, along with planned communities, stores, etc. All with better jobs, education and increasing incomes. Car sales are increasing at a 12% annual clip (practically zero in the US). Cable TV, broadband services and satellite services increasing at 40% to 50% annually. Most people here only look at things in Rio as is today and love to repeat what they have heard about Brazil over and over. There is a new Brazil emerging. I am doing business there and I can tell you that many companies want to, and are, investing in Brazil in major ways. And, the rich getting richer thing, is the same all over the world. More wealth is controlled in fewer hands.

[QUOTE=Mr Enternational]The same way many of our bosses exploit us. How many workers feel they are underpaid? How many have gotten wage cuts while at the same being required to take on a bigger work load? The good thing is that unless you are caught up in some sort of slave operation there is a revolving door. A person in any job can walk out through the same door they walked in.[/QUOTE]Sounds like you need a new job, or to go work for yourself. It is liberating, but most people don't take the plunge because they don't have the confidence in their abilities and the balls to step out. They like to ***** about their jobs and bosses, but they gladly take the pay check. But you really avoided my question, the reality is saying that "mongers are really just using a system that was in place for a long time is the same as saying people have been exploited a long time."

In my travels I've met alot of GDP's who use the business to get themselves set up for their futures. I know gals that own apartment buldings, as many as 8 houses (All paid for, ca$h) and charging rent for each one of them, setting themselves up for their futures.

I know some gals on the program that make as much as BR 5,000 to as much as BR 12,000 per month thanks to many of our more affluent mongers, you know those who don't look but love to overpay for everything. I'm sure there are some who make a lot more than that. These gals work in places that used to exist (Help, TA, etc.) and others that are still going strong (4 X 4, Monte Carlo, Lluomos, Balcony, etc.). Remember, the minimum salary in Brazil is roughly BR 500 per month. They are not being exploited. It is a fast track out of poverty for many of them, if they chose to be smart with their cash.

For these gals, no other job will give them as much money, power and freedom as the job that they do. They know that as long as their looks hold up, there will never be a shortage of reals in their future. They know it. So please, at those extremely high wages, do not say that they are being "exploited" in any way, shape or fashion. By comparison, in Nevada, a gal working in one of the legal brothel makes between $175,000 to as much as $350,000 per year and I mean the average gals not the porn stars that go to work there sometimes and command as much as $1,000K per year. Why do so many of them have business managers? Because, no matter the times, business is good :D

Gentlemen, these gals are there right now in bunda land, just talk to them. For them, as long as they stay healthy, it is a highway to a better future.
[QUOTE=Mangera]During my last trip alone, I spoke to one gal that is engaged to be married in December, her boyfriend knows what she is doing, and she plans to work only to November because she will have enough money to buy a house. She says she plans to being a gdp in November. Whether she stops or not, thats debatable, but she will be the proud owner of a house.

As 4 x 4, I met another mulata who has no children, and does not interested in having one anytime soon. She has worked in a spain for a few months, has no desire to go back, and she she calculates that she will have enough cash to buy her house by Febuary of next year. She lives with her mom and sister. Her plan is to quit once she gets the house.

Some meninas save there cash, others blow it. Bottomline, they are working for different purposes. Some because they have kids, and others because they want to improve their own personal situation.

People taking advantage of others? I think it works both ways at certain times. Sometimes I overhear guys say how much they paid for a session, and I feel like I am getting chest pains.......just insane knowing that they paid 400R for a garota that would have accepted 200R, and normally charges between 100-150R to the locals. Those are the moments when I ask myself.......who is taking advantage of whom. It works both ways.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Voyajer1]In my travels I've met alot of GDP's who use the business to get themselves set up for their futures. I know gals that own apartment buldings, as many as 8 houses (All paid for, ca$h) and charging rent for each one of them, setting themselves up for their futures.

[/QUOTE]


You know multiple girls who have accomplished all of this?! WOW!! I am truly amazed!!!!!! In 14 years of going to Rio, I probably know 2 girls who have wisely invested their money! The other 99.99999% blow their money on BS!

[QUOTE=Bravo]You know multiple girls who have accomplished all of this?! WOW!! I am truly amazed!!!!!! In 14 years of going to Rio, I probably know 2 girls who have wisely invested their money! The other 99.99999% blow their money on BS![/QUOTE]LOL. Some of the girls working in Europa return to Brazil with enough to buy / build their little saltbox dreamhouses in their interior hometowns, and furnish them, too. But as for the rest of them, it's the win the lottery talk that keeps them going.

[QUOTE=Hughdad]But you really avoided my question, the reality is saying that "mongers are really just using a system that was in place for a long time is the same as saying people have been exploited a long time."[/QUOTE]From what I am reading apples are being compared to oranges. Neither statement, "mongers are really just using a system that was in place for a long time" nor "people have been exploited a long time" has anything to do with the other.

If you take the side that anyone who takes part in the buying side of prostitution is exploiting the seller then it would be true that mongers are exploiting prostitutes. I, however, do not take that side. As I have said before fair exchange is not exploitation. It would be different if the buyer forced the seller into the job or if the seller was forced to take whatever price the buyer was offering. In none of my mongering sessions (especially in Dubai where many of the women are indentured sex workers) has a woman been forced to take my offer. By the same token I have not been forced to take her offer. Each party has always been able to freely accept or decline the others' proposition.

As Voyajer said, they alone chose to work in the sex industry. Nobody went around to their houses and rounded them up and made them go to work at Balcony, Luomo, VM, 4X4, etc. So if there is any exploitation going on then they are exploiting themselves. What about the millions of other Brazilians who are in the same economic situation but who do not choose to peddle sex. The choice is theirs.

[QUOTE=Hughdad]Sounds like you need a new job, or to go work for yourself. It is liberating, but most people don't take the plunge because they don't have the confidence in their abilities and the balls to step out. They like to ***** about their jobs and bosses, but they gladly take the pay check.[/QUOTE]I for one love my job as well as my pay and have no complaints. I have an MBA in International Business. I studied in Brazil, Argentina, France, and South Africa. Although I have worked for myself before and still do so at times, I really have never had the desire to do it. I'm too lazy to have to actually "work" for a living. I'd rather take the train that has the gravy on it.

[QUOTE=Rikkit2] I'd bring less candy, more giftable pocket rockets, and more Victoria's Secret cremes, which were a consistent hit as "tips" ($6 for you on sale, R40 for the girl to buy herself).[/QUOTE]

Great reports dude. Thanks.

Can you explain more about the VS creme?

[QUOTE=Mr Enternational]Although I have worked for myself before and still do so at times, I really have never had the desire to do it. I'm too lazy to have to actually "work" for a living. I'd rather take the train that has the gravy on it.[/QUOTE]A '*****' in other words. (and self-professed, no less) bears repeating to say, it's the world's oldest profession.