Angeles City

[quote=robbaf]if this is 100% true i feel for law. i am wondering if there is just a little more to the story. he stated that they started to have sex, but yet he states that he never got his dick in??? so, is this a case of "i didn't have sexual relations with that girl!!"

as i read the report it almost seems to me that he kind of knew that he was dealing with a cherry girl.

why didn't you go back to the bar before you left ac?

did you tell the police that you got her from x-bar?

sounds like you live here, as i do and i would rather go to a bar, pay the bar fine and pay her to leave in the morning, then deal with a non-pro drama queen. but if this shit is going to happen with a girl from a bar then i guess we are not safe anywhere in the philippines.

good luck law

robb[/quote]1) 100% true

2) to be as specific as i can, i got the head of my dick, maybe a little bit more, and she said something to the effect of "stop or i will call the police" and i stopped.

3) to accurately respond to your third point, we would have to define cherry girl. my definition is that a cherry girl is a girl who claims to be a virgin so that she can work in the bar and either be selective of who she has sex with, or not have sex with anyone. many cherry girls really are virgins (about 20 to 50 percent, in my estimation.). this particular case was unusual in that she never mentioned that she was a cherry girl, and i never asked. also, before we began to undress, she asked me if i had a condom. for the record, i would never, under any circumstances, take a girls virginity unless we had a very clear understanding of what my responsibilites would b. later, after we had gotten dressed she then claimed that she was a virgin, to which i responded to the effect of "there was no blood, so it is a good thing that we did not have sex". she did not mention that she was a virgin again until the police station. but remember, what really got me out of this mess was that she at first told the cops she was a virgin and that i took her virginity, but after i agreed to go to hospital to have her examined instead of paying her 100, 000, she then recanted and said that she was not a virgin. also, when i returned with the 22, 000 she appeared very distressed. or to put it another way, she looked far more worried than i ever was during this experiance. my guess is that once i was gone, the cops let her know that there was going to be some consequences for her admittadly false report (maybe that they would take the money from her).

4) of course, there was no hiding the fact that she was bar fined from a specific bar.

5) i got out of the police station about 6:00 am, so no hope of getting this resolved before i left. i have other responsibilites here in subic, so i can't just can't drive back to angeles to resolve my dispute with the bar. but there will be some resolution and i may post it here. i say "may" because it may not be wise to post what might happen next. (i wrote and rewrote the next sentance several times, but i just can't think of a safe way to write it, so i won't)

5) correct, we are not safe anywhere. but it is important to get back on your horse once something bad has happened. if you guys had any idea of the shit i have gone through both here and back in the us, you would understand that this was nothing more that a bad night out in angeles. and while it was certainly the worse night for me ever in angeles, it is nowhere remotely close to my worse night (i've had far worse in manila, subic, and los angeles). i'll be back barfining in ac as soon i can get there, with a little more experiance now than last week.

also, i think there a couple of things that i have learned from this experiance and should post.

1) when you have had as many bargirls as i have, you can tell when something is wrong. like an idiot, i decided to find out what was wrong myself. there were several times during the night when i got bad vibes but did nothing. i had never had this specific type of girl before, so i did not know what to do. i would say that as a general rule, if you get bad vibes from a girl, end it. you are out 1, 500 pesos and you can just go to another bar and get a new girl.

2) a car can be a liability. if not for my car, there were two occasions where i could have gotten out of this without paying anything. that is the problem, although i am not quite sure of the solution.

3) i was happy to pay the 22, 000 because considering the worst possible outcome, 22, 000 is peanuts. however, when it became clear that the worst possible outcome (the filing of [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url] charges against me) was not going to happen, i should have re-analyzed the whole situation and negotiated a better deal.

[size=-2][b][u]editor's note[/u]:[/b] [blue]i would suggest that the author or another forum member consider posting a link to this report in the reports of distinction thread. please [url=http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php]click here[/url] for more information.[/blue][/size]

Been waiting for the name of the bar with baited breath. I think it would help the rest of us to know to steer clear of the place for a while at least. Do you think the mamasan was in on this or was it just the act of the girl alone?

[QUOTE=LoveAsian*****s] ... 22,000 is peanuts...

[size=-2][b][u]EDITOR'S NOTE[/u]:[/b] [blue]I would suggest that the author or another Forum Member consider posting a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please [url=http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php]Click Here[/url] for more information.[/blue][/size][/QUOTE]


Peanuts? Wow, but at least not for me! However, if the bargirls come to know that such an amount 'is nothing but peanuts', then some others might feel encouraged to copy this trick! Or do I overestimate this possibility, gentlemen?

Cheers!


Hesekiels

I think those numbers by Ekspat are the number of visits to AC which is getting less over the years.

I can only remember 2 runners ever and that was my first AC visit. Sometimes the chemistry is not right, I chalk it up to experience and move on. I've been pretty lucky on my subsequent visits.

Trouble is runners, scams, high prices, etc... will do AC no favours as a "tourist" destination. Visitors would just visit less, not come back, tell others about it, etc... which will in turn have a negative spiralling effect.

I felt that my last visit during the supposedly high season, there were less punters around. IMHO this is due to the general downturn in world economy. After all, money spent on mongering activities are discretionary expenditure.


[QUOTE=X Man]Ekspat, what do these numbers represent? I thought the topic was runners, but no one could have such bad luck.

X[/QUOTE]

[quote=loveasian*****s]1) 100% true

also, i think there a couple of things that i have learned from this experiance and should post.

1) when you have had as many bargirls as i have, you can tell when something is wrong. like an idiot, i decided to find out what was wrong myself. there were several times during the night when i got bad vibes but did nothing. i had never had this specific type of girl before, so i did not know what to do. i would say that as a general rule, if you get bad vibes from a girl, end it. you are out 1, 500 pesos and you can just go to another bar and get a new girl.

2) a car can be a liability. if not for my car, there were two occasions where i could have gotten out of this without paying anything. that is the problem, although i am not quite sure of the solution.

3) i was happy to pay the 22, 000 because considering the worst possible outcome, 22, 000 is peanuts. however, when it became clear that the worst possible outcome (the filing of [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url] charges against me) was not going to happen, i should have re-analyzed the whole situation and negotiated a better deal.

[/quote]thanks law, a lot more info in the update. good luck with the bar.

robb

[quote=acfreddie]which bars on perimeter road are charging more than p1200?
the only one that i know of is mirrors (inside the clarkton hotel) and that is for their spotlight type of girls. the vast majority of perimeter bars bar fines are priced at p1200, some are lower, but i have only been living here for years and things do change in seconds here..[/quote]

i agree, the vast majority of perimeter road bars charge approx 1200, but have you been to asian end of perimeter, this is an international forum.

[quote=acfreddie]which bars on fields, other than dhg are charging p3000?
golden nile comes close with their p2000 bar fines for certain girls.
the la pasha group (lpg) charges p1500, the champagne group charges p1500, the super majority of independent bars do not charge more than p1,300/1350. i just covered about 95+% of the bars in ac..[/quote]

try to bf a spotlight dancer at love and music or blue nile.

[quote=acfreddie]do a sneak out and get banned from a bar. wow, that would really put an unbearable burden on a tourist if he were to be banned from entering a bar (or even a group of bars) for doing a sneak out. with over 90 bars in ac, what will they do when they get banned at a bar?.[/quote]

as a long term resident, why would you recommend to a new tourist how to cheat the bar? you have some grudge against the bars in angeles. but you are right, for a week holiday, there are probably enough bars to keep him busy, even if banned from a bar. as a long term resident, what happens to you if you get the reputation as a sneak out customer? hope you enjoy nifty's.

[quote=acfreddie]if you have a problem with a girl, then virtually all bars will not help you. this is part of the new ac that has been transforming for a couple of years now and continues to get worse. so guys should be of the mindset that sneak out or not, the chances that a bar will help you with any problems you encounter is remote to none. bars are taking a hands off approach to customer service regarding problems after the girl and customer leave the bar..[/quote]

they probably don't help you, as you seem to suggest sneaking the girl out is the way to go. but in general, for most tourists going into an established bar, if the customer has a legitimate concern, the bar owner will attempt to address the problem. i remember on one forum a customer had a problem in gecko's, the owner read the forum and took immediate response and action to reach the customer and address his problem. i believe the employee was fired, but am not totally certain.

[quote=acfreddie]sneak outs as they are commonly termed, are very different than picking girls off the street. that is like attempting to compare an apple and an elephant. here are a few of the many differentials, one has a city license, one has highly likely been to the weekly required hygiene, one is likely doing "sneak outs" because the bar she works for is low in customers or the bar is high priced, pulling scams and/or rip-offs, decreasing the number of customers in the bar, but while the girl is ok dancing for salary, she may have had a request from her family to send extra money. since she cannot find a customer to pay her inflated bar fine cost, but she knows or has several offers to do a "sneak out" on her own time, she accepts one (or more) of the offers, so that she can earn the money that she needs. this is common for girls in ac to do, and they do it often. you mentioned cheating (lets term it loyalty), the girls are loyal to their family's first and foremost, the bar come very low on their priority list. .[/quote]

i agree sneak out is common. i agree family comes first or they come first, which ever. i also agree for a variety of reasons picking a girl up off the street is more dangerous than a true sneak out. my point was that if you find a girl who is willing to cheat the bar, then there is an equal chance she will be willing to cheat you as well, given an opportunity. many guys run around with girls phone numbers for months, its not always meet girl one day and sneak out the next. in the time since meeting the girl, has she failed her hygene, is she now on drugs and been banned from the bar, has the bar discovered she is in fact **** and fired her out, has she been involved in scaming customers and the bar has fired her out? on the one hand you suggest the bar provides the safety net for the customer, but then recommend to potential customers to engage in cheating and bypassing the bar. it is a warped set of ethics in my opinion. if you feel the prices are too high in a bar, go to another bar. as you stated there are many bars in angeles.

[quote=acfreddie]now for the picking up a girl off the street, this is the dangerous part and was not suggested or recommended in my op/posting. this is where most of the authority sponsored or authority involved set-ups happen. they are not with girls that work in the bars and on the side do "sneak outs". they are vastly girls that do not work in bars at all.[/quote]

really, and just how do you know that the girl works in the bar if you don't go through the bar. i know a 16 year old girl (looks 21), who hangs outside of various bars on fields, pretends to be a doorgirl, and offers herself for sneakout. she is very pretty. her mother and her are in continual search of that guy who thinks sneak out is the way to go, then come the **** police. how about the girls in sky tracs, are they all 18, cause i know a number of girls there that are not, but pretend to be from bars. how about the girls that hang out around kokomo, pretend to be employed by the bars there. even if you know better, how is a tourist to know.

so many posts in this forum to avoid risky behaviour, for the tourist to have a safe and enjoyable time, but then to suggest the tourist behave in a manner that encourages the chance for a scam or to be cheated.

[quote=matius]i agree, the vast majority of perimeter road bars charge approx 1200, but have you been to asian end of perimeter, this is an international forum.



try to bf a spotlight dancer at love and music or blue nile.[/quote]

love and music is one of the few that is not covered by my previous 95+% posting as their tiered barfine pricing system is p1800 and p3000

blue nile is p1500



[quote=matius]as a long term resident, why would you recommend to a new tourist how to cheat the bar? you have some grudge against the bars in angeles. but you are right, for a week holiday, there are probably enough bars to keep him busy, even if banned from a bar. as a long term resident, what happens to you if you get the reputation as a sneak out customer? hope you enjoy nifty's.[/quote]

i do not advocate that for all bars, just bars that for me (and numerous others) feel that are scamming and/or ripping off their customers or those bars who attempt to charge industrialized prices in a 3rd world county. i call it leveling of the playing field.
most bars will not find out when a guy "sneaks out" a girl from their bar. this applies multi-fold to the larger/mega bars. there is no incentive for the girl to tell her employer that she did such. i know of guys who have been banned from bars for doing sneak outs before. there are just so many bars currently and there are always new bars opening so its not limiting by any means.
i have and will continue to support the bars with reasonable 3rd world prices for barfines, drinks and their offerings, some of those that i support can be found on fields as well as many of perimeter road.




[quote=matius]they probably don't help you, as you seem to suggest sneaking the girl out is the way to go. but in general, for most tourists going into an established bar, if the customer has a legitimate concern, the bar owner will attempt to address the problem. i remember on one forum a customer had a problem in gecko's, the owner read the forum and took immediate response and action to reach the customer and address his problem. i believe the employee was fired, but am not totally certain.[/quote]

most bars now in ac are being forced by political correctness and the fear of being charged with a crime(s) that if they attempt to interfere with things, they will be become involved with a mess they want no part of. that is why in the new ac for the majority of the bars it is what happens after you leave is for the customer to deal with. now that said, there are still reputable bars, that if the girl pulls a runner/leaves early, will refund at least part of the money, but the number of bars doing this is on a downward trend and the each bars policy greatly varies. of course you increase your chances of obtaining a refund if you are known to the bar as a repeat customer.



[quote=matius]i agree sneak out is common. i agree family comes first or they come first, which ever. i also agree for a variety of reasons picking a girl up off the street is more dangerous than a true sneak out. my point was that if you find a girl who is willing to cheat the bar, then there is an equal chance she will be willing to cheat you as well, given an opportunity. many guys run around with girls phone numbers for months, its not always meet girl one day and sneak out the next. in the time since meeting the girl, has she failed her hygene, is she now on drugs and been banned from the bar, has the bar discovered she is in fact **** and fired her out, has she been involved in scaming customers and the bar has fired her out? on the one hand you suggest the bar provides the safety net for the customer, but then recommend to potential customers to engage in cheating and bypassing the bar. it is a warped set of ethics in my opinion. if you feel the prices are too high in a bar, go to another bar. as you stated there are many bars in angeles.[/quote]

the vast majority of reputable bars will, if they have found out out a girl was **** but still held a valid license, not return the license to the girl when she departs and will block her being able to be issued a new license from the city. this is not always the case, but not having this done in my experiences is the exception not the rule. so if the girl can produce her city id's then that is about the most secure you are going to be able to do as far as protection against scams short of asking her to bring an nso certified birth certificate with her when she meets you.
if someone had the girls number from months ago and wanted to get with her again, i would suggest they get in contact with her and while they are out one day on a bar hop, find out where she is working, do buy her a (regular) ladies drink, this way the guy can add an additional layer of security/protection against scams or worries about the girl having a disease or the like. if the guy has 6 numbers, he can do a bar hop and visit the 6 bars of the girls he has the numbers for and visit them at their work.



[quote=matius]really, and just how do you know that the girl works in the bar if you don't go through the bar. i know a 16 year old girl (looks 21), who hangs outside of various bars on fields, pretends to be a doorgirl, and offers herself for sneakout. she is very pretty. her mother and her are in continual search of that guy who thinks sneak out is the way to go, then come the **** police. how about the girls in sky tracs, are they all 18, cause i know a number of girls there that are not, but pretend to be from bars. how about the girls that hang out around kokomo, pretend to be employed by the bars there. even if you know better, how is a tourist to know.

so many posts in this forum to avoid risky behaviour, for the tourist to have a safe and enjoyable time, but then to suggest the tourist behave in a manner that encourages the chance for a scam or to be cheated.[/quote]

how do you know or find out, by doing what i mentioned above and going to her bar while she is working, buy her a regular drink and add that extra layer of protection.
how is a tourist to know. again if they choose to do a "sneak out" then adding the various already mentioned layers of security/protection.
there are no guarantees in the pi and in the pi as the foreigner, they do not need a legitimate reason to try and extort anyone for money. while a bar does provide a layer of protection for the tourist as well as anyone, it can be done in various other ways that are just as protective.
in the end its up to each individual to decide for themselves in which manner they would like to proceed and spend their money. like i said above, i do not sneak out girls every day of the week, nor do i sneak girls out of bars that are realistically priced for the 3rd world that they are located in, but if i get scammed, taken advantage of or a bar tries to do any of one or combination of those things or more, then i am going to level they playing field.
i am far from cheap or broke. when i am out bar hopping or on a bar hop with guys from the various boards that i belong to, i drink imported alcohols and do not sip on a local beer for an hour or more in each bar (not that there is anything wrong with that) its just not my style or how i am. i like imported spirits and when i am out (which is often) i go to bars that have a historical reputation of being pro-customer and will not attempt to or pull scams or rip-offs. i do not get anything that both other in my bar hop group or others get in general from the bars that i go to. i go to those bars that are pro-customer because i have a higher level of confidence that if there was a problem the management or owner(s) are willing to listen and correct the problem.

what i do strongly recommend and suggest to all tourists is to do their own research, talk with others in the know and then plan their trip/time at bars that have a good reputation and are pro-customer. that way if a problem is encountered that they will have a better chance at the bar assisting with the problem and not giving the customer the brush off.

[quote=loveasian*****s]1)

5) correct, we are not safe anywhere. but it is important to get back on your horse once something bad has happened.

1) when you have had as many bargirls as i have, you can tell when something is wrong. like an idiot, i decided to find out what was wrong myself. there were several times during the night when i got bad vibes but did nothing. i would say that as a general rule, if you get bad vibes from a girl, end it. you are out 1, 500 pesos and you can just go to another bar and get a new girl.


3) i was happy to pay the 22, 000 because considering the worst possible outcome, 22, 000 is peanuts. however, when it became clear that the worst possible outcome (the filing of [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url] charges against me)
[size=-2][b][u]editor's note[/u]:[/b] [blue][url=http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php]click here[/url] for more information.[/blue][/size][/quote]simillar but related story from 2004.

was in makati and waiting for a my gal in glorietta. a lcute ady was hovering around and giving me the "eye". went over to her, got her number for later. arranged to meet her later that night, and after a drink we ended up in my car for one kiss, that escalated till my pants down, hers down etc. when suddently theres 10 police surrounding my car, shining flashlights in car, shouting that i've broken many laws, and i will taken straight to jail etcetc.

long story short i was subject to extortion by makatis wonderful police. who first asked for p50, 000. that got later negotiated down to p20, 000. in short "peanuts" compared to the shame fest of a possible court case. i hear you law. trying to think straight and come up with a battle plan with police telling you this and that is very difficult.

as for getting back on the horse. girl told me she was real nervous about the police having her phone number and they were always calling her asking for dates etc. etc. anyways met her next day and gave her a good session. there was lots of hidden tension there.

i never knew if i was set up by the girl or not, as she really didn't know where we were going to drive to, but she was very eager to get my pants down.

the police. useless, corrupt, rotten to the core. but then so are all politicians there. they act as role models for the cops and mmda cockroaches.

[QUOTE=Eggsalad]Hello Gentlemen

I was really looking forward to being in AC again. But I have to say, I am very disappointed this time. On my first day, I was unsuccessful in trying to barfine the first 6 girls. All gave excuses as to why they could not go. They most common excuse was "on my menstruation".

------This is not the AC I remember. ------------
[/QUOTE]
I was just in AC and it is not the same place as I remember too.

I barfined 4 girls in total and 3 were runners.
-One girl left earlier than what we agreed on in the bar. No tip for her.

A few girls wouldn't go with me (not mens; no excuse was given)

I found that lot's of the girls were less enthusiastic than my previous trip, also.

Not the end of the world, but just a different feel than before.

[QUOTE=Amjeck]I was just in AC and it is not the same place as I remember too.

I barfined 4 girls in total and 3 were runners.
-One girl left earlier than what we agreed on in the bar. No tip for her.

A few girls wouldn't go with me (not mens; no excuse was given)

I found that lot's of the girls were less enthusiastic than my previous trip, also.

Not the end of the world, but just a different feel than before.[/QUOTE]

Yea, that was how I saw it last time I was there also (Mar 09). Really I thought it was just me and maybe I had AC burnout.

It was kinda a real bummer because like a Heroin addict, my first trip to AC was better than all the Disneyland vacations I had ever had as a kid. Orgies with 15 or so people and the Mamasan running the video camera, totally naked pool parties at 2am, dick out BBBJ's from door girls in the middle of the bar with a crowd cheering; this is what I thought AC was like all the time and I assumed I had discovered "Heaven".

I also met a real cutie with enough GFE to last about a year.

But alas, it was not to continue, and the last time in AC it was as described above.

After a hard year of screwing off, eating, fucking, drinking and all around debauchery, I am due for my yearly vacation. I decided this year 6 weeks of motorcycling around the Philippines, Thailand and Vietnam. Good mongering requires one to be in tip top condition and I am certainly not. I would like to spend 2 weeks of my vacation in a health spa. I figure that is just what I need to kick the year off right. Does anyone have any information on spas/programs in either Thailand or the Philippines, like a "Fat Farm" I can attend? Any help is as always appreciated.

Martin from Cartagena

Just came back sunday. Been going here for a number of years. Everything is different the new malls, new clubs Car Wash, cost on the raise and the biggest change is the girls. It was great while it lasted and as the saying goes nothing last forever. Those headed for the first time may think it is great but for those that have been here the place is just not the same.

[QUOTE=Strikesfun]Just came back Sunday. Been going here for a number of years. Everything is different the new malls, new clubs Car Wash, cost on the raise and the biggest change is the girls. It was great while it lasted and as the saying goes nothing last forever. Those headed for the first time may think it is great but for those that have been here the place is just not the same.[/QUOTE]I have just returned home from my first Angeles City trip after years of going to Thailand, and a couple trips to Manilla and I feel a little better now after reading all the comments, because I thought maybe it was just me. I had heard that Angeles City was this magical place, better than any other. Well, IMHO, it is not. I was really disappointed with the whole place, the first 3 days started out OK, but after that I soon found myself tired of the whole place. Especially during the day, I had a similar problem as many others with girls being on menstruation, I also seemed to meet a lot of girls that only give blowjobs. I think they need a better system for identifying their girls, and the services they provide.

I'm going to try to get a better report up, as well as some pictures when I get some time, but I just wanted to put my 2 cents into this conversation because I had the same experience as a lot of others recently.

[QUOTE=El Vagabundo]After a hard year of screwing off, eating, fucking, drinking and all around debauchery, I am due for my yearly vacation. I decided this year 6 weeks of motorcycling around the Philippines, Thailand and Vietnam. Good mongering requires one to be in tip top condition and I am certainly not. I would like to spend 2 weeks of my vacation in a health spa. I figure that is just what I need to kick the year off right. Does anyone have any information on spas/programs in either Thailand or the Philippines, like a "Fat Farm" I can attend? Any help is as always appreciated.

Martin from Cartagena[/QUOTE]



I went here for three weeks. Very good. It is on Phuket Island
[url]http://www.atsumihealing.com/index.php[/url]

I also spent a couple of months traveling around Thailand on a motorcycle. Be careful about the police who will try to fine you for just being a (perceived) rich foreigner on a motorbike. Do not go even one millimetre over the white line at traffic lights. Jack Daniels Black Label seemed to be the bribe of choice for them.

lets all be honest, pussy for 1500(33 usa dollars) or 2000 (44 usa dollars) and know you are not worried about age issue. why risk getting someone from street, with over 300 bars. i'm sure you can find one looking under 18 working in a bar if that is what you are truly into.

don't risk anyone on the street.

what is that sales comment. o yes, k. i. s. s.

keep

it

simple

stupid

now go find some pussy at 18 or over and enjoy your time.

p.s. if you can not afford to pay, then rent a movie until you can.

[quote=matius]i agree, the vast majority of perimeter road bars charge approx 1200, but have you been to asian end of perimeter, this is an international forum.

try to bf a spotlight dancer at love and music or blue nile.

as a long term resident, why would you recommend to a new tourist how to cheat the bar? you have some grudge against the bars in angeles. but you are right, for a week holiday, there are probably enough bars to keep him busy, even if banned from a bar. as a long term resident, what happens to you if you get the reputation as a sneak out customer? hope you enjoy nifty's.

they probably don't help you, as you seem to suggest sneaking the girl out is the way to go. but in general, for most tourists going into an established bar, if the customer has a legitimate concern, the bar owner will attempt to address the problem. i remember on one forum a customer had a problem in gecko's, the owner read the forum and took immediate response and action to reach the customer and address his problem. i believe the employee was fired, but am not totally certain.

i agree sneak out is common. i agree family comes first or they come first, which ever. i also agree for a variety of reasons picking a girl up off the street is more dangerous than a true sneak out. my point was that if you find a girl who is willing to cheat the bar, then there is an equal chance she will be willing to cheat you as well, given an opportunity. many guys run around with girls phone numbers for months, its not always meet girl one day and sneak out the next. in the time since meeting the girl, has she failed her hygene, is she now on drugs and been banned from the bar, has the bar discovered she is in fact **** and fired her out, has she been involved in scaming customers and the bar has fired her out? on the one hand you suggest the bar provides the safety net for the customer, but then recommend to potential customers to engage in cheating and bypassing the bar. it is a warped set of ethics in my opinion. if you feel the prices are too high in a bar, go to another bar. as you stated there are many bars in angeles.

really, and just how do you know that the girl works in the bar if you don't go through the bar. i know a 16 year old girl (looks 21), who hangs outside of various bars on fields, pretends to be a doorgirl, and offers herself for sneakout. she is very pretty. her mother and her are in continual search of that guy who thinks sneak out is the way to go, then come the **** police. how about the girls in sky tracs, are they all 18, cause i know a number of girls there that are not, but pretend to be from bars. how about the girls that hang out around kokomo, pretend to be employed by the bars there. even if you know better, how is a tourist to know.

so many posts in this forum to avoid risky behaviour, for the tourist to have a safe and enjoyable time, but then to suggest the tourist behave in a manner that encourages the chance for a scam or to be cheated.[/quote]