Phnom Penh

[quote=theprinz;1449245]yeah there are probably dozens of virgins in bars (and yet i have not seen that many honestly) ,[/quote]you'd have to venture inside and talk to people for that to happen.

[quote]but i wonder what's the big deal with virgins[/quote]no big deal for me. i was responding to comments by other members on the subject.

[quote]girls in 200$/month apartments? hard to believe even in phnom penh, maybe the ones married with kids but 200$ is already very upscale for the average khmers.[/quote]no it's not. i knew of 3 when i left. visited their places a few times and ate there with them. two shared one place on street 19 for $200 a month, the other stayed in a $200 apartment with a coworker. these weren't $5 brothel girls.

sure 200 is more than the average khmer makes let alone pays. doesn't mean it don't happen. there are women pulling down close to a thousand a month working bars, if they get a guy or two to send them another 100. 200 a month they're in.

[quote]the ones i know working in 104 (airforce, rose bar, colonial) live nearby in a shithole, others live as far as toul tom pong and take a tuktuk together every day to go and back, if you ask them they will show you photos of their home in the village, typically a bamboo stilt on a pond or ugly barracks in slums, that's where they all come from and where they all will go back actually, you're a bit too overoptimistic about the buying power and the status of these girls no matter if indeed they look good inside the bar, they will never be worth a dime in the khmer society as only tourists have such a high opinion of them.[/quote]this is why blanket statements are ridiculous. i met some bargirls born in phnom penh. i met some who came from relatively well off families but ran off to meet foreigners because they wanted to escape their family's rules and make it on their own. i met some who have khmer boyfriends and husbands.

[quote]what i'm trying to say is that the way they price themselves is absolutely out of their league, if they were so good they would ask 100$ to local rich khmer and korean customers in the top ktvs rather than dealing with tourists.[/quote]some girls tried ktvs and didn't like it. some girls don't like khmer men. and in some bars tourists are outnumbered by expats and long term visitors.

[quote]being expert of bars : no, that's not my cup of tea as you noticed, i consider them as a scam from top to bottom, here and elsewhere in asia.[/quote]so you don't know much about them, but you know enough to make blanket condemnations? what happened, did a bar girl steal your wallet or something? you remind me of the guys who get beat up by an immigrant and then hate all immigrants for the rest of their lives.

[quote]freelance bars are a different story however, i see nothing wrong in place like walkabout or sharky's,[/quote]may i ask if you are blind or just in need of a new prescription for your glasses? i think the reason these places don't draw too many tourists is that you'd almost have to have been in country for years to be able to make it with most of the girls in those places. that's really only for the most hardened of guys in my opinion. i can only see it being acceptable if i was totally broke and hadn't had sex without paying for it for years.

i can get sex without paying. i think most guys can and at least occasionally do. if they travel they want to step up, not down.

of course everyone has a different opinion on that.

rich guys go to the high class places because they can. poor guys go to the dumps because they have to. sad facts of life.

[quote]as an expat i avoid tourists like the plague but it's getting impossible nowadays, they're everywhere and girls have no way to tell the difference unless you speak k'mai.[/quote]second user to spell khmer that way, which is seen nowhere else on earth. you both post one after another. coincidence?

[quote]nobody is starving in cambodia[/quote]now this username has been completely discredited. that's two on the same page. any more?

[quote]all this talk about poverty is rubbish in most of the cases, their poverty is spiritual and cultural and there's no cure for that as they're not even aware of being sick and they refuse any treatment or discussions on that subject.[/quote]but i'm "racist" against "khmer culture" for saying there is a bride price (which there is, now confirmed).

[quote]overpricing : it all depends if you're a tourist or an expat. when you live here you quickly adjust to the local prices, and the longer you live here the more you will notice you were paying twice or even thrice the normal rates, and you will get tired of the endless scams and ripoffs going on and being always asked a "tourist price" pretty much anywhere. when you realize how cheap are the real prices you see no reason to pay the tourist fare and suddenly 50 bucks for a shag sounds like a huge amount of money because that's exactly what it is! only the rich khmers would pay so much and only for top stunners in ktvs, never ever in bars in the riverside, they would not even look at those illiterate farm girls speaking a rough dialect from the countryside![/quote]but i'm not a poor khmer man. and neither is anyone else on this board. that's the difference.

plus some more nonsense. there are khmer, thai, chinese, korean and japanese customers in the bars all the time. most of the bar girls can read and write, some of them in multiple languages. and the most common provinces they come from are kandal and kampong cham. very close to phnom penh and no real difference in speech whatsoever.

[QUOTE=Channy; 1449071]At least the Pattaya expat don't bring inflation to the street scene.

In a way you re right, simply because the first Pattaya came to Cambodia importing their Pattaya rules, prices etc. I can tell you they totally change the girl scene at least in PP. But most expats forgot that the opening of Malaysia labour market to viet girls have send a lot of them to Malaysia. Where they can get in day 100usd easily. So the old time of viet cuties available for 5usd in SP and 63 st brothels has gone forever, sometimes long term expat doesn t want to accept the new reality.[/QUOTE]There's no reason for the street scene to change much, but of course the girls could get a bit more greedy with expats and barangs, it's already happening from time to time to be asked up to 30 bucks from a random street hooker when the next girl in line is ok with 5$. Maybe they're newbie or maybe they don't like me or maybe they heard too many stories about barangs paying crazy prices and tips?

One had the guts to tell me she doesn't do BBBJ because "only ladyboys do it"! Hahaha! Ohhh really?

Another asked 30$ in advance and clearly stated no BBBJ, no BB without condom, no kissing, no this, no that.

So yeah there are already signs the street scene is getting some bad apples thrown in the mix but it's still pretty easy to find decent material and a fair price / quality / service ratio.

Anyway, the Pattaya losers will not ruin the scene as they usually stick to bars only, I've never met farangs shagging 300 baht girls, they're scared by all the horror stories about it while for what I've seen they're absolutely normal street girls, can't see what's all the fuss about! But these guys are so dumb they walk alone at 04AM with credit cards and all in their pockets and then they wonder why they get robbed or drugged.

Viets in Malaysia : exactly what I've seen and I remember a bar neat the Petronas Towers with a sort of "menu" and it was full of gorgeous viets asking 200$ ST!

However, if you don't mind the location you can still boom boom viet girls for 5-10$ in many places in Sihanoukville, just don't expect to get a stunner but there are a few rough diamonds if you invest some time to know the score.

Problem is, nowadays the average Vietnamese has not many good reasons to live in Cambodia, even here in PP most of them are running small businesses but if shit happens they could pack and go back to the Mekong Delta tomorrow without thinking twice. Vietnam is booming now while here it's stagnating and vietnamese are not really welcome in general, even politicians like Sam Rainsy is very vocal against them and openly talks about "deportation" and "Vietnamese invasion" etc but who knows, the Khmers have always somebody to hate and use as a scapegoat for all their troubles, now it's the Viet, yesterday the Thais and tomorrow who knows.

In any case I agree the times of cheap shags with Viet girls in PP are truely over and most of the viet I see around are half viet or half something by the way, not many look 100% viet with white skin and slander eyes, not many speak Vietnamese too, and there's so many who claim to be Viet but they're actually Khmer Krom.

At Rick Rock,

Maybe your problem is just that your skin is not thick enough for places like Cambodia.

I wonder why you come here if all you see are the negative sides.

I perfectly agree this place is fucked up and hopeless in many ways but I still feel safer and more welcome here than in Thailand or vietnam honestly.

Blanket condemnations : well, I don't go often in bars but I had several GF who are bargirls including the one I have now.

I've nothing against bargirls in particular, but I think I know what's going on in their world and in their business and therefore what to expect from them, what to do and what not to do, it's not rocket science, really, all it takes is an eye for the details.

Freelance bars : it depends which time of the day you go there, for instance the Walkabout is good in daytime but full of fuglie by night, Sharky's is only OK at 20-21PM, Martini also is OK at 21PM but hit and miss afterwards, same goes for Heart of Darkness or Pontoon, some nights there are many good girls and other nights only fuglies.

I repeat, there's no point seeking top stunners in Phnom Penh or even in the whole of Cambodia.

The Khmers are not on par with Viets or Thais and the few good ones quickly get married with rich khmers or go whoring in other countries where they get 10x as much as working here.

What we have in PP are basically the leftovers, the whole scene is unrecognizeable from few years ago.

If you feel the khmers are so bad for you, sorry, you better go in Singapore or HongKong and pay 200$ ST so you will finally put the money where your big mouth is.

You say you travel to "step up", so what the hell are you doing in Cambodia of all places?

No offence but I heard these rants a million times, even while in China and tokyo and HK actually and believe it or not there are foreigners complaining about girls in Singapore if that matters.

Only god knows where they will finally find a girl that suits their upper class and bizarre tastes!

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I visited once on holiday to see what it was about, next time went on work. Any future visits would also be for work as I would head elsewhere for holiday.

Thanks for info, John. I followed your recommodations and went first to the bars you gave 3/5 (I notice you give none 4 or 5, I suppose this is correct for PP.) Now, I have been to PP before and know the bars on street 136, but not the ones on the other streets. I found you recommodations to be mostly correct. I start off with Bar City on street 110. What good luck! I arrive at 9 pm, immidiately I am approached by a pretty girl, she's very nice, a Viet girl. I buy her a drink, after a bit chatting and kissing I know that she is right for me, no reason to look any further. I ask about the $ for lt. She answers: what do you give? I say: 30. She counters with 50. I say 40. Ok. We go. Bf is 10. We take a tuktuk the short distance to my hotel for 3$. (Probably too much.) Yes, my decision was right, she turns out to be so nice, a good GFE. All night and morning, multiple FS. (No BJ, but that's ok. Also she is kind of only half horny, but that's ok too. Not all girls you meet can be orgastic, not even with DATY, some are only wet.)

The next night I start too late, I arrive in Bar Top Ten on street 104 at 10 pm. Lots of customers, most girls occupied already. Still I sit down to have a drink because the girls are really pretty. I can then make some observations and return the next day. One reason most of the girls (and all the pretty ones) are busy, is that some customers have taken several girls at once, one even has five at his table giving them all drinks! Very annoying! Folks: be considerate of your fellow mongerers and share the goods! (Even for us late arrivals.) LOL!

I leave and go to check out some other bars on several streets, but either the story is the same as in Top Ten, or the girls are not attractive and / or have some other issue. In one bar on street 136 (was it Lemon?) a girl quotes 50 for st! Ridiculous! The only answer to that is "bye-bye". (She didn't seem to be that into me, anyway.) On street 136, Sizzlers seems to be the best bar, but also here I am to late. This is of course the downside with the small bars in PP, the guests quickly outnumber the girls. Tomorrow I will start early!

I notice there are many regular tourists (or at least western foreigners) in PP, even if it's the rainy season. Why? There's very few tourist attractions here, so what do they all do, except walking the streeets looking bored?

[QUOTE=JohnTheMatress; 1433116]After living here for a little while, I've compiled my notes in an attempt to give a run down of what is available and what it's like. I wish I would have had something like this when I started out, though after doing it I understand why someone wouldn't want to spend the time. I say this is an attempt, because as Appendix II shows, there are plenty of places I still don't know enough about to include a review.

I've followed each description with a rough score on a five point scale. 5/5 is the highest possible rating.

If you're interested in the scene, I recommend checking out places and doing your own assessment. Your opinions may (and probably will) differ from mine.

I'm also interested in any corrections or updates.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Rick Rock;1449883]I visited once on holiday to see what it was about, next time went on work. Any future visits would also be for work as I would head elsewhere for holiday.[/QUOTE]I wouldn't come here on holidays now; I would have said for sure check it out 5 to 10+ years ago when it was the wild wild west. Today the country doesn't have that much to offer. It's good for business and cheap to live here, but other than having a business to exploit the poor it ain't much good for too much more. Well one thing that I like no need to elaborate.

I don't holiday here, I just live here very comfortably. I do enjoy myself, but I don't know of I would recommend it to another expat. It is a lot safer than Thailand though a lot of expats get killed in Thailand and a lot of it is covered up.

Like when I lived there 6 guys committed suicide in my building in one year, all will the basic same M. O. My husband was depressed lately and he drank a lot tonight. Then jumped got pushed I mean jumped off the balcony I guess.

Thai police case closed. I here Phuket is really bad now not sure, just hear say.

My 2 cents, you have to decide for yourself, but I don't recommend living with a bar girl in Thailand.

On my third night I hit the bars on 104 and 136 early, at 7 pm, to beat the crowds. Which means that many girls are available, but then I get bored: the prices for st and lt are too high, the bars are too dark and the girls speak little english. So I decide to try out Cyrcee, or Say-say as they call it, since it has been recommended at this board. And this place is not bad, it's quite good in a way. In fact most of the girls here are good looking. When I arrive there at 9:30 there are no other customers, so all the girls scramble around me. 7 or 8 of them. I choose the one I like best, then one of the others asks if I want two girls. I decline since that's not my style. That other girl then gets angry and says something in Khmer and walks away. Strange how easy Khmers loose control when they get frustrated, so different from other Asians.

I finish my drink and off we go, cross the street to the short stay hotel and I pay for a room for one hour. The facilities are just adequate, towels are missing. My girl then goes on to wash my dick in the shower, then BBBJ and FS. She is both pretty and friendly and technically good, but not anything close to GFE of course. Damage is 8 for barfine. 25 to the girl. 5 for the room, toghether 38. Too much in my opinion, but that's how it is in PP now. I think the price hikes over the last years also is because of the dollarisation, people would have been more careful with their money if prices had been quoted in the local currency with the bigger numbers on the bills. Anyway, Cyrcee is recommended for st because you know what you get and you know that you will get it.

More than $38 because you have to buy at least one drink and one for the lady or ladies you take.

No need to go to 25 for one pop short time. Should be 20. You can politely say you want two pops for 25 and you'll get it. If you take two ladies they're even more eager, because it's less work for them.

Why are their tourists in Phnom Penh? Because that's the capital. It's where the airplanes land. They spend a day or two in the city after their 15-20 hour flight before taking a buy to Siem Reap or Sihanoukville.

In the bars it's 50/50 on English. Some can speak quite well. Maybe 25 percent can't speak it at all. Much better percentage than in Thailand, and that goes for taxis and motos too.

[QUOTE=John Traveller;1450058]She is both pretty and friendly and technically good, but not anything close to GFE of course. Damage is 8 for barfine. 25 to the girl. 5 for the room, toghether 38. Too much in my opinion, but that's how it is in PP now. I think the price hikes over the last years also is because of the dollarisation, people would have been more careful with their money if prices had been quoted in the local currency with the bigger numbers on the bills. Anyway, Cyrcee is recommended for st because you know what you get and you know that you will get it.[/QUOTE]Exactly.

Too much indeed but at least at Cyrcee you won't be disappointed by the service unlike with other bars where the girls now ask as much as 50-60$ ST + barfine and don't even do BBBJ and turn out to be a total starfish in the bedroom.

As others have pointed out, Phnom Penh is no more worth the hassle compared to years ago, at least because of the prices but I see no way for the prices to ever go down, if suddenly tourists stop coming most of the girls will just go back to their village thus leaving even less girls in the market and therefore the prices could even go up or on par with Vietnam!

Only Snooky is still relatively cheap and down to heart but I wonder for how long and the number of girls in snooky is rather small compared to PP.

So, is Cambodia dead as a mongering destination? Not yet, but the golden days are truely over.

Last I've heard from my GF was a group of barangs getting drunk in 136 yesterday night and wasting over 500$ just in drinks / ladydrinks / tips and not getting any sex or even a french kiss! What the fuck. With clients like them there's no way the girls will ever ask fair prices and some bars are getting incredibly greedy and scams are the norm, if you complain they call the undercover police sitting outside and you'll get beaten up mercilessy, if the real police comes they will just blame the foreigners and eventually even escort you to the ATM below the Lux hotel to pay the bills!

That's the way it is here, no balcony jumpings like in Pattaya or Phuket but neither you can expect any protection or justice from the police, it's never going to happen, in the best scenario they will protect you from being lynched by a mob of angry Khmers if you make serious damages but that's all.

[QUOTE=John Traveller; 1449907]In one bar on street 136 (was it Lemon?) a girl quotes 50 for st! Ridiculous! The only answer to that is "bye-bye". (She didn't seem to be that into me, anyway.) On street 136, Sizzlers seems to be the best bar, but also here I am to late. This is of course the downside with the small bars in PP, the guests quickly outnumber the girls. Tomorrow I will start early!

I notice there are many regular tourists (or at least western foreigners) in PP, even if it's the rainy season. Why? There's very few tourist attractions here, so what do they all do, except walking the streeets looking bored?[/QUOTE]Oasis and Lemon bargirls usually ask 40-50$ but I wonder why, none of their girls are above average, many speak bad English, many only do ladydrinks, almost all of them don't do BBBJ and their sexual power / libido doesn't look to be that high!

I would also stay away from Bar 69 and Cavalry Bar, the ladydrinks prices are just outrageous, Mr Butterfly also seems to have the most pretentious girls asking up to 70$ ST! That's just unbelievable but that's what I've heard, guess there's a sucker born every minute to pay so much for a random farm girl dressed with party clothes make-up and high heels? But in the end for the crowd of Pattaya mongers 2000 baht is pretty much OK nowadays.

[quote]Last I've heard from my GF was a group of barangs getting drunk in 136 yesterday night and wasting over 500$ just in drinks / ladydrinks / tips and not getting any sex or even a french kiss! What the fuck.[/quote]Guys have been doing that in Japan and Korea for decades, didn't dry up the available supply of 20 dollar BBBJ or 50-75 ST in those countries.

Hostess bars aren't brothels. That's what you need to understand.

[QUOTE=Rick Rock;1450489]Hostess bars aren't brothels. That's what you need to understand.[/QUOTE]Exactly. It amazes me how many guys think that they are buying a piece of meat when they go to a hostess bar. If they want that, they should just go to Street 51, Street 70, what Phnom, Street 63 etc

Hi Guys,

I study your reports and seems to be a bit different comparing to what I read in web, well as far as I understood, the good old time of wild wet Asian time in PP is over but nevertheless. I'm heading for few days to PP and would like to know where shall I start best and regarding to that what you reported (which I'm quite agree the prices are run too high and sure is concerning the behavior of some who just pay all prices which has been requested from the girls.

To be clear in many reports (by other websides and friends) it was talking about for example taxi girls, who are mostly asking for just 5-10 bucks short time & max to 50 for night, also 85% where talking about walkabout which should be very suitable place nonestop and approx. For 25 Dollars night, so am I dreaming or they where just showing off, any how I'd like to know some informations about the behavior of the girls which means in detail. Or you think that some how like most eastern European countries or even in Thailand the girls have been organized themselves to keep the prices high?

Thanks

[QUOTE=ThePrinz; 1450425]Oasis and Lemon bargirls usually ask 40-50$ but I wonder why, none of their girls are above average, many speak bad English, many only do ladydrinks, almost all of them don't do BBBJ and their sexual power / libido doesn't look to be that high!

I would also stay away from Bar 69 and Cavalry Bar, the ladydrinks prices are just outrageous, Mr Butterfly also seems to have the most pretentious girls asking up to 70$ ST! That's just unbelievable but that's what I've heard, guess there's a sucker born every minute to pay so much for a random farm girl dressed with party clothes make-up and high heels? But in the end for the crowd of Pattaya mongers 2000 baht is pretty much OK nowadays.[/QUOTE]Absolutely! Even in off the map KTVs where the generals and upper class Khmer's go, most of the girl are only $50 ST up-stairs FS. They are 90% farm girls, but they can easily make $50 in tips from the big shots that are all frkin millionaires trying to show off their ill gotten money. Even the girls there don't ask for that kind of money, but most of them don't have sex with their customers, not by choice just the men are there more for entertainment, to get drunk with there co-works and friends, if they, myself included want sex we go to one of our GFs Flats bag on the door at 3:00 am and get GFE.

I only go do the bar seen mostly when I'm on holidays, I get harassed by other mongers that, I'm not legit or whatever. If you knew anything about Khmer culture it use to be common for men to have more than one wife and one family. Well now you have one wife and Songsa's (girlfriends in Khmer ). This is a status symbols in Khmer culture every or damn near every man who is married on my street has a or many Songsas. Just like the new trend is to drive a Range Rover instead of a Lexus SUV or for my other neighbour a Roll-Royce Ghost, which cost him only $500,000 and change.

Point being these guys won't even pay a farm girl more than $50 for a ST if they're feeling frisky, most of the time it's on a bet, which far exceeds any amount of money the girl will see.

Well I hope Hun Sen wins the election today, I would like to see him have a minority government though to stop some of his more radical laws he tries to make. For the peace and stability of the country, I'm hoping he wins, I think it's going to be close though because a big party I know of has been put on hold and everyone is working today. Could be blood in the streets, let's hope not, it sure would bring down the cost of mongering though, but the cost is too high.

Myself personally the corruption doesn't bother me it's a cost of doing business, which is more efficient and less expensive in comparison to what it would cost, if you had no corruption and paid the workers in the government wages like in the west and in the west you still have corruption on a large scale that far exceeds Cambodia in the amount of money big corporation pay the government. I pay no taxes to speak of here and the property I have here the taxes back home on that land for exceeds any tea I have served in the Kingdom.

Happy mongering and $20 a ST guys, walk away from anywhere or one charging more, let's at least give the tourists, sorry fellow mongers a reason to make Cambodia a stop on their adventures around the world for low cost P4P even if the quality might not be as good as other countries. There are some real nice looking girls here too, you just have to shop around a little more, unlike Thailand where you can go into a gogo and get a stunner and pay over $100 for her too and sorry, but in this mongers opinion Thai girls have lost that loving feeling and it's gone gone gone. They even have a TV show for bar girl's in Thailand to screw their heads up more. Wish I could remember the name of it, but if you understand Thai this show would shock you at the instructions or syllabus they are teaching the up and coming stars, unbelievable.

Cheers

First of all, I apologize for my English, I am not a native speaker but trying my best so be kind to me.

So I was in Phnom Penh last week for three days and decided to try my luck at the hostess bars on streets 104, 110 and 136 the first two days and the third day go for the freelancer bars at street 51. Considering JohnTheMatress extensive bar guide and experience I decided to follow his recommendations.

Day 1.

After a couple of 50 cent beers at the backpacker street (st 172 I think) I decided to try out the hostess bar Top Ten on street 104. There were around twelve girls sitting around tables when I entered the place. Most of them below avarege in look. Four of them sitting with some Asian guys buying them drink after drink. The others who were available were just sitting there looking bored. They were'nt even acknowledging my presence when I sat down at the bar. WTF! Now I am pretty young (32years old, maybe this was the problem?) and decent looking and have no problems getting girls so this was very surprising as I am used to get surrounded by girls when entering these kinds of bars in other countries. I sat down ordered a drink, drank it fast and headed for st 110 instead.

On st 110 I went for City Bar which supposed to have good looking Viet girls. When entering the bar, I got approached by a stunner (9/10 in looks!). I bought her a drink and we talked for a while. She was twenty years old and was half Vietnamese and half Khmer. She was very cute but seemed very shy and I got the feeling pretty soon that she was only working for lady drinks. Too good to be true. I hate that crap (why should I pay a girl just to talk with her?) and decided to cut my losses and head for st 136 instead.

On st 136, first I went to Candy Bar. Much bettter, around twenty different girls sitting down and greeting me when entering the bar. Got immediately approched by three girls, two not so good looking and one that was quite a cutie (7/10 in looks). I bought the cutie a drink and went upstairs with her. She immediatley asked if I wanted to go with her. I asked how much and she said 30 USD for 2 hours. What does she mean by 2 hours really? Short time is normally one shot and after my shot. Which take 30 minutes in average – the sex is over so I don't see the point with a 2 hour ST. Anyway. 30 USD for ST is too much for me, and I wasn't in the mood to haggle so I finished my drink and left.

Next I went to Lemon Bar. What a dissapointment that was. All the girls look bored and below average in looks. I talked to some girls but it was depressing so I drank my beer fast and went out of there to Best 136 Bar (I think that's the name). After just a couple of seconds I met a great looking girl and also very friendly and happy. Finally! I bought her a drink and sat down with her. Asked her if she wanted to go home with for the whole night for 40 USD (I think that's a fair price considering her great looks and attitude). She agreed and I paid BF 10 USD and we went back to my hotel room. OK sex, FS two times, including one in the morning. GFE but kind of forced if you know what I mean. I got the feeling she wasn't that much into it that I would like her to be. But anyway, well spent money, she gave me a good experience all in all and I gave her a good tip before she left in the morning.