Stupid shit in Medellin

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2474231]I could care less what the university types could say. Again, you are pushing the Democrat notion that we should listen to experts when there are none.[/QUOTE]LOL. I am pushing nobody's notion because I am not affiliated with a political party. I vote for the candidate that I believe will best serve my interests at the time. For instance, I voted for Trump last time and will vote for Trump this time. But if the Democrats would have selected Sanders, then I would be voting for him. I vote the person, not the party.

So why does the USA even have a Center for Disease Control if there are no disease experts? You do not know a damn thing about cars. You pull up to Jiffy Lube and the guy that has been running the place for 20 years tells you your car is running bad because you have been using the wrong weight oil. But fuck him because there are no experts and you could care less what he says.

By this time next year this virus thing is in the rear view mirror. Anyone voting with this front and center is myopic in my view.

The world needs to deal with a lot of stuff including China, climate change, nuclear threats etc. 2 bad choices here is how I see it.

Economy wise atleast Trump has the edge. Both however want to spend like drunken sailors and the Fed seems willing to accommodate that's why the markets are going bananas.

[QUOTE=GeneHickman;2474335]By this time next year this virus thing is in the rear view mirror. Anyone voting with this front and center is myopic in my view.[/QUOTE]Back in March people were saying the same thing about August.

"By this time next year this virus thing is in the rear view mirror." GeneHickman.

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2474346]Back in March people were saying the same thing about August.[/QUOTE]Touche.

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2474346]Back in March people were saying the same thing about August.[/QUOTE]But. Its trumps fault for being the worst leader imaginable on this. And its the fault of the media for doing a horrible job--especially fox noise. And the American people are responsible for this debacle with their greed and stupidity.

6 weeks hardcore lockdown followed by national mask mandate for 2 months and we can start moving on. Should have been done March April May.

Shame on trump, fox noise and the republicans for politicizing public health and turning the USA into the worlds worst failure for dealing with the pandemic. Shameful.

[QUOTE=JustIncognito;2474438]But. Its trumps fault for being the worst leader imaginable on this. And its the fault of the media for doing a horrible job--especially fox noise. And the American people are responsible for this debacle with their greed and stupidity.

6 weeks hardcore lockdown followed by national mask mandate for 2 months and we can start moving on. Should have been done March April May.

Shame on trump, fox noise and the republicans for politicizing public health and turning the USA into the worlds worst failure for dealing with the pandemic. Shameful.[/QUOTE]I don't understand the logic of your solution. If a mask mandate solves the issue then why the need for the 6 week lockdown?

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2474331]LOL. I am pushing nobody's notion because I am not affiliated with a political party.[/QUOTE]I am not talking about what party you are are in. Democrats think intellectual elites can solve anything. Republicans think the free market can.

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2474331]So why does the USA even have a Center for Disease Control if there are no disease experts?[/QUOTE]Is this disease like all the others? If so, you have a valid point. If it is not, and it is not, then there are no experts. What Fauci did early on was rely on his experience with influenza and Corona does not behave like influenza. He assumed expertise, and you assume he had expertise, when he was wrong. I do not even care that he was wrong. I care that he is wrong and not going back and fixing his previous mistakes to save face.

[QUOTE=JjBee62;2474314]My concern has been and continues to be stopping this. We know it's possible. New Zealand just recorded 100 days without community spread. Canada is maintaining at around 750 new cases a day. Germany is holding under 1200. South Korea has been under 100 new cases daily since April 1. Taiwan has been in mostly single digits since mid April. The US was doing an excellent job of getting it under control until the beginning of May. Then we stopped trying. We're currently averaging almost 400,000 new cases weekly and it's expected to go higher.There's no magic required. It's actually quite simple. If you don't need to leave your house, don't. When you do have to leave your house wear a mask. Wash your hands. Avoid other people, especially those who aren't wearing a mask.[/QUOTE]That simple huh? What are you going to do next JJBee? Eradicate the common cold? Of course, there is magic involved, you are going to invent a unicorn trap next.

New Zealand just had cases come back. South Korea, Germany, and Taiwan all engaged in the one policy I have said worked from the beginning: frequent testing, contact isolation, and targeted quarantines. And when I say worked, what I mean is slowed the spread of the virus.

The whole notion that you are pushing that political leaders and the citizens are responsible then is poppycock. The experts in the USA fucked up by not rolling out testing soon enough.

As for masks, the evidence is clear that when you stop or slow people spreading droplets from one another, the rate of viral transmission goes down. WTF does leaving the house have to do with anything? I have seen more spread among families than anywhere else. Where do you think people have the most prolonged exposure to one another's droplets?

You have no fucking clue what is going on.

[QUOTE=JjBee62;2474314]You don't need to make up more virulent mutations.[/QUOTE]I didn't make anything up. You are fucking clueless. You are just repeating the clap trap the so called experts are spewing where all that matters are citizens and their compliance. It is not the expert's fault. They didn't fuck up. It is all on the citizens.

I just read that Cusco, Peru had a tiny fraction of cases compared to Lima. They must be more complaint in Cusco then in Lima right? It HAS to be that because that is all that matters. Compliance and washing one's hands. Jesus.

I do not know what is worse. The experts spewing their bullshit or dumb asses like you who keep buying it.

[QUOTE=Xavter;2474459]I don't understand the logic of your solution. If a mask mandate solves the issue then why the need for the 6 week lockdown?[/QUOTE]It takes a total of 12 weeks, to get an outbreak under control. It takes 6 weeks for the infection rate to crest and begin to fall. If we go back to a strict lockdown, the number of new cases will continue to rise. After 3 weeks the rate at which it is rising will begin to fall. It will be rising more slowly. 3 weeks after that it will begin to fall. That assumes a majority comply.

So the 6 weeks is to get the curve going in the right direction. A mask mandate alone won't be as effective, because there are many situations where masks can't, or won't be worn. Bars and restaurants for example.

The mask mandate should be in place at the beginning of the 6 week shutdown, because obviously not everyone can stay home. Once the curve is going the right direction, if you can get everyone to comply with the mask mandate, you can begin to open things up, in a controlled manner. Some things might not be able to be opened up for 2 months or longer, theaters, bars, schools.

With a controlled reopening, combined with masks and a readiness to back up if the numbers start to go up, after 3-4 months most things can return to normal.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2474480]That simple huh? What are you going to do next JJBee? Eradicate the common cold? Of course, there is magic involved, you are going to invent a unicorn trap next.

New Zealand just had cases come back. South Korea, Germany, and Taiwan all engaged in the one policy I have said worked from the beginning: frequent testing, contact isolation, and targeted quarantines. And when I say worked, what I mean is slowed the spread of the virus.

The whole notion that you are pushing that political leaders and the citizens are responsible then is poppycock. The experts in the USA fucked up by not rolling out testing soon enough.

As for masks, the evidence is clear that when you stop or slow people spreading droplets from one another, the rate of viral transmission goes down. WTF does leaving the house have to do with anything? I have seen more spread among families than anywhere else. Where do you think people have the most prolonged exposure to one another's droplets?[/QUOTE]I missed the part where you talked about Sweden. Still can't talk about Sweden? Katten har din tunga? Which is Swedish for "Cat got your tongue?" c'Mon. Let's hear what you have to say about Sweden. Every fucking day you were bringing up Sweden, until I pointed out how badly Sweden fared and now you run and hide from any mention of Sweden like it was a 300 pound tranny with halitosis.

While I'm waiting for you to address the Sweden question, let's talk about staying home.

If you live in a house or apartment with your family, chances are, whatever illness is going around, it will spread to other members of the family. This is especially true for families with children. If someone in the household is infected, there's a good chance others in the household will become infected. If nobody in the household is infected and everyone stays home, nobody in the household will become infected.

If nobody in the household is infected, and the people don't stay home, every time they leave the house there's a possibility one of them will become infected, bring it back home and infect the other members of the household.

This involves those critical thinking skills Mr. E was talking about. If you're not infected and you stay home as much as possible, you increase your chances of remaining virus free. If someone in your household is infected, your chance of becoming infected remains the same, whether you stay home every day, or leave home every day. However, your chance of infecting others goes up every time you leave the house.

Now let's talk about the experts in the US not rolling out testing quickly enough.

The "experts" by which I assume you mean the NIH or the CDC don't have the authority or the budget to roll out a nationwide testing initiative. All they can do is suggest to the President that we need to mobilize and what our priorities should be. Only the President, or Congress if they can pass legislation and override a Presidential veto, can authorize something of that magnitude.

While we're on the subject, the "experts" also don't have the authority, budget or responsibility to order an increase in production of masks and other PPE. Again, all they can do is point out the need to the President.

The President has broad authority over the US Strategic Reserves. Almost anything deemed essential to national security can be added and stockpiled, and the amount kept can be raised or lowered by the President.

For example, when oil prices were spiking in 1996, Clinton authorized the sale of 12 million barrels of oil from the US Strategic Reserves. He authorized the sale of another 30 million barrels in 2000. George W. Bush authorized buying oil to fill the reserves to capacity in 2001 and Trump authorized the sale of oil after the attacks on oil facilities in Saudi Arabia.

So the President, but not the CDC, could have increased worldwide production of masks and PPE by simply ordering the government to add those items to the strategic reserve. The President, but not the CDC, could have rolled out a nationwide testing initiative. He did neither.

As I said, I have no need to point fingers, but if you're going to insist on pointing, then you need to point in the right direction.

Finally, let's talk about Cusco, Peru.

The population of Cusco is 428,000.

The population of Lima is 10.5 million.

Cusco has had 6,879 cases.

Lima has had 19,684 cases.

More math fun coming up, or as I like to call it "Elvis is going to start avoiding any mention of Peru after this."

Lima has 24.5 times as many people as Cusco.

Lima has 2. 86 times as many cases as Cusco.

If Cusco had the same population as Lima it would have 168,500 cases, based upon the current number of cases per capita in Cusco.

If Lima had the same population as Cusco, it would have 803 cases, based upon the current number of cases per capita in Lima.

So. First Sweden and now Peru. At this rate you're going to run out of countries to talk about.

[QUOTE=Xavter;2474459]I don't understand the logic of your solution. If a mask mandate solves the issue then why the need for the 6 week lockdown?[/QUOTE]If the virus is inside an air tight container, it can't infect people outside the container. Our normal environment is like a leaky container. Mask can reduce leak but it still leaks unless everyone know how to operate with it perfectly then the virus can still get in thru your eyes. That is why the flight attendants on trans pacific flight wear goggles.

Lock down can be bullet proof if done right. For example, you don't lock people in hotel because most hotels has central A / see, that is a possible leak. You don't let people share bathroom because people may be infected by virus when you flush. It does not matter if these are required or not, just do it and it will be over in a few weeks. We can find the scientific truth later. If you only act after the truth is found, you are wasting valuable time because by the time you found the truth and start to act, you could have stopped the virus without knowing the truth. Just look at China's bordering countries. They are less advanced but doing so much better.

Air travel is another leak but it can be prevented. That is what 14 days quarantine does. You can track and escort a person to the dedicated facility the minute the visitor step out of the gate to make sure there is no leak.

One reason they are arguing is because even the what one would consider the correct position is "leaky" sometimes. For example, if you read my above description, you can see how quarantine is done can vary greatly. The reason quarantine does not work is because it has leaks so it is not done right. One reason it works in China is because China will take away the infected from their family members and put them in a special quarantine facility. They are making the healthy stay in the healthy container, and the infected in the infected container until they recover. Basically, you need to think about leak and plug them, then it will work. In some other countries, all living essentials will be delivered to the infected so they don't have to go out and it help reduce infections.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2474480]That simple huh?

I do not know what is worse. The experts spewing their bullshit or dumb asses like you who keep buying it.[/QUOTE]Let's see now. There's one expert or as he calls himself, the chosen one, who said this is all a hoax and then he said it would just disappear like a miracle in the summer from the heat and then he has a beautiful miracle drug and then he wonders if chlorine somehow ingested would kill it in seconds and then There's his followers who must be the asses who keep believing what he says. I agree with you!

It's easier to fool a fool than it is to convince a fool that he has been fooled.

I see you are all experts on Covid as well as you are on the politics of it. Can't you see that Trump and his republitards are trying to push a random drug as a cure to the virus (as if "free market" would do something to get us out of this horror) and democrats believe that there is no cure to Covid and that we would all have to be vaccinated or be quarantined for good. At this point no one knows nothing and we should pray that something happens soon so that we can start flying to those amazing places we once did again. I think our only hope is Biden winning and dying soon so that Kamala can do what one is supposed to do up there. Other than that, this moron will have his son in law who is the newspaper man try to have random private labs search for the cure or whatever he thinks might sell to desperate people who are being infected in unprecedented numbers. Pray for America.

[QUOTE=Nounce;2474297]I think using that single instance to undermine Dr Fauci is wrong and it only allows the virus to do even more damages.[/QUOTE]How can anyone undermine Fauci when he changes his mind every second?

Here he is on lockdowns and the economy taking both points of view: [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cuxi4c0dUOk[/URL].

Here he is on public gatherings: [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cuxi4c0dUOk[/URL].

Here he is in person on social distancing and mask wearing: [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdOSFbmyF_w[/URL].

It looks to me like the person undermining Fauci is Fauci.

How can you trust an expert who changes his mind every time the wind blows?

[QUOTE=Nounce;2474553]If the virus is inside an air tight container, it can't infect people outside the container. Our normal environment is like a leaky container. Mask can reduce leak but it still leaks unless everyone know how to operate with it perfectly then the virus can still get in thru your eyes. That is why the flight attendants on trans pacific flight wear goggles.

Lock down can be bullet proof if done right. For example, you don't lock people in hotel because most hotels has central A / see, that is a possible leak. You don't let people share bathroom because people may be infected by virus when you flush. It does not matter if these are required or not, just do it and it will be over in a few weeks. We can find the scientific truth later. If you only act after the truth is found, you are wasting valuable time because by the time you found the truth and start to act, you could have stopped the virus without knowing the truth. Just look at China's bordering countries. They are less advanced but doing so much better.

Air travel is another leak but it can be prevented. That is what 14 days quarantine does. You can track and escort a person to the dedicated facility the minute the visitor step out of the gate to make sure there is no leak.

One reason they are arguing is because even the what one would consider the correct position is "leaky" sometimes. For example, if you read my above description, you can see how quarantine is done can vary greatly. The reason quarantine does not work is because it has leaks so it is not done right. One reason it works in China is because China will take away the infected from their family members and put them in a special quarantine facility. They are making the healthy stay in the healthy container, and the infected in the infected container until they recover. Basically, you need to think about leak and plug them, then it will work. In some other countries, all living essentials will be delivered to the infected so they don't have to go out and it help reduce infections.[/QUOTE]You're still not addressing my question. You stated that the solution was a bulletproof lockdown (not clear what this means by your description) and then mandatory face masks for all. Are you suggesting that the virus can't spread anymore after a 14 day "bulletproof lockdown" as long as everyone uses face masks?